Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Aspen Education Group => Topic started by: Oscar on May 07, 2010, 03:30:27 AM
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Hunt is on for two runaway teens (http://http://www2.mcdowellnews.com/news/2010/may/06/hunt-two-runaway-teens-ar-9395/), by Richelle Bailey, The Mcdowell News, May 6 2010
Missing and wanted page (http://http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php?title=Missing_and_wanted) on Fornits Wiki is updated.
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The McDowell News Covering Marion and McDowell County, NC
Hunt is on for two runaway teens (http://http://www2.mcdowellnews.com/news/2010/may/06/hunt-two-runaway-teens-ar-9395/)
By Richelle Bailey
Published: May 06, 2010
A search is on for two teenage girls who walked away from a wilderness camp in Old Fort Thursday morning.
As of deadline Thursday evening, McDowell County sheriff's deputies and staff members of SUWS of the Carolinas were still hunting for 16-year-olds Katelynn Hall and Kayla Sunray.
Chief Deputy Sam Arrowood of the Sheriff's Office said the girls were last seen at the base camp on Graphite Road around 6 a.m. Someone noticed their disappearance at 7 a.m., and authorities were notified at 8 a.m.
"They left their group and ran away," he stated, adding that deputies respond to calls concerning SUWS runaways several times a year.
SUWS is a therapeutic wilderness program for struggling youth.
Hall, who is originally from Dyer, Ind., stands 5 feet, 7 inches tall and weighs 110 pounds. She has blond hair and blue eyes. Sunray, who is from Clinton, Va., stands 5 feet, 7 inches tall and weighs 160 pounds. She has brown hair and brown eyes.
Anyone with information concerning the girls' whereabouts is asked to call the McDowell County Sheriff’s Office at 652-4000 or McDowell County Crimestoppers at 65-CRIME. With Crimestoppers, your identity remains anonymous, and you could receive a cash reward.
©2010 Media General Communications Holdings, LLC.
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Some interesting Comments on the above article (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=30473&p=363044#p363043):
Posted by ErgoProxy on May 7, 2010 - 5:25 a.m.
What the article did not mention is that the wilderness camp in question has killed two children, Gregory Owen Jones at age 13 in 1985, and Rocco Magliozi, age 12, in 2006. Aspen Education Group, the owner of SUWS, is responsible for many more deaths, including those of Sergey Blaschischen and Brendan Blum.They have absolutely no consideration for the lives or well-being of the children in their "care". The parents are either ill-informed, sadistic, or both.Do not, repeat DO NOT contact the Sheriff's Department or anyone else if you see these girls. If you want to help, give them money, a place to stay, and do not tell ANYONE anything about them until they are 18 and safely out of this program's clutches.
Comment above subsequently replaced with: This comment violates our posting policies and has been removed.[/list]
Posted by The_Sea_Captain on May 7, 2010 - 5:39 a.m.
ErgoProxy, I know nothing about SUWS but it sounds as though you do. I hope the girls find a safe haven and do not fall prey to a predator. It's a wild and unforgiving world these days. They need allot of prayer and a little luck. I guess life has been less than kind to them or they wouldn’t have been there in the first place. Navigate Prudently!
Posted by mountainman10 on May 7, 2010 - 7:18 a.m.
I pray that these young ladies are safe and find the help they need to live as close a normal life as they can in this crazy mixed up world. i also pray that the perverts that read this article dont get any stupid ideas.
Posted by Zerozx on May 7, 2010 - 4:59 p.m.
I don't see why Ergo's post was removed...
Posted by ErgoProxy on May 7, 2010 - 5:48 p.m.
What the article did not mention is that the wilderness camp in question has killed two children, Gregory Owen Jones at age 13 in 1985, and Rocco Magliozi, age 12, in 2006. Aspen Education Group, the owner of SUWS, is responsible for many more deaths, including those of Sergey Blaschischen and Brendan Blum. They have absolutely no consideration for the lives or well-being of the children in their "care". The parents are either ill-informed, sadistic, or both. Do not, repeat DO NOT contact the Sheriff's Department or anyone else if you see these girls. If you want to help, give them money, a place to stay, and do not tell ANYONE anything about them until they are 18 and safely out of this program's clutches. Additionally, McDowell News doesn't like me posting this because it doesn't fit their narrative and/or their relationship with the owners of this "school".
Posted by ChuckF on May 8, 2010 - 8:24 a.m.
To ErgoProxy and Everybody Reading It's easy to pick a few times when the program didn't work, since only troubled teens who are a danger to themselves and others are there, it would be a surprise if over the years there weren't a few unfortunate cases where the teen did harm themselves. I am not trying to minimize those tragedies and I feel for their families.With that said, SUWS is truly a wonderful program. They have helped thousands of teens, including my daughter, to become happier and more successful. The wilderness experience is designed to teach them to become responsible for themselves in a healthy outdoor environment, away from the distractions and bad influences that were part of the initial problem. Probably, more of the the teens would have hurt or killed themselves if they had not been sent to the camp.The two girls were found Thursday evening, thanks to someone who read the news and did not do anything as irresponsible as ErgoProxy suggested but rather alerted the police. Thanks!
Posted by PolterGuest on May 10, 2010 - 3:43 a.m.
I'm not sure I understand how ChuckF came to the conclusion that the mortality count in Aspen's wilderness programs is due to circumstances where "the teen did harm themselves." Or that "probably, more of the the teens would have hurt or killed themselves if they had not been sent to the camp."I in no way wish to undermine ChuckF's good fortune and experience with this program, but his generalizations seem highly inflammatory in light of the FACTS.
©2010 Media General Communications Holdings, LLC.
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I hope these kids had a little wilderness training prior to them taking off. Lets all hope for the best.
Here is an interesting stat that surprised me:
One in seven kids between the ages of 10 and 18 will run away at some point. And there are 1 million to 3 million runaway and homeless kids living on the streets in the United States.
In 1999, an estimated 1,682,900 youth had a runaway/thrownaway episode.
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THIS IS ACTUALLY REALLY SAD. IS THERE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT LOOKING FOR THEM? HOW DOES A KID GET THE COURAGE TO RUNAWAY IN A COMPLETLY BAD AREA LIKE THAT. THERE IS THREE OF THEM SO MAYBE THEY CAN RELY ON EACH OTHER TO.
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HOW DOES A KID GET THE COURAGE TO RUNAWAY IN A COMPLETLY BAD AREA LIKE THAT.
Desperation.
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THIS IS ACTUALLY REALLY SAD. IS THERE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT LOOKING FOR THEM? HOW DOES A KID GET THE COURAGE TO RUNAWAY IN A COMPLETLY BAD AREA LIKE THAT. THERE IS THREE OF THEM SO MAYBE THEY CAN RELY ON EACH OTHER TO.
Its actually a really nice area. It use to be a boy scout camp so there are tons of trails and lakes to camp near and the weather is good this time of year. There are also existing railroad tracks they can follow which will take them into town. If they have learned any survival skills they should be fine for awhile. although if they were my kids I would be worried out of my mind.
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THERE IS THREE OF THEM SO MAYBE THEY CAN RELY ON EACH OTHER TO.
Unless you know something I don't, I believe there are only two of them. But yes, hopefully they will be able to rely on one another.
Below follows a short piece from a local news station...
Another piece (http://http://www.wlos.com/shared/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wlos_vid_2240.shtml) on the same website notes that North Carolina ranks as the eighth most likely state in the U.S. where human trafficking occurs, particularly in this more rural part of the state.
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WLOS ABC 13 News
Teens Missing from Girls Camp (http://http://www.wlos.com/shared/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wlos_vid_2233.shtml)
Thursday, May 6 2010, 12:39 PM EDT
(http://http://www.wlos.com/shared/newsroom/top_stories/videos//images/missingteens_Y4WAC.jpg)
Deputies in McDowell County are searching for two teenagers who ran off from a camp for troubled girls.
Authorities say Kayla Sunray and Katelynn Hall ran away sometime this morning from the SUWS camp on Graphite Rd. in Old Fort.
Anyone with information on their whereabouts should call the McDowell County Sheriff's Office at 828-652-4000.
Copyright ©2010, WLOS-TV
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I THOUGHT IT WAS THREE MY BAD.
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HOW DOES A KID GET THE COURAGE TO RUNAWAY IN A COMPLETLY BAD AREA LIKE THAT.
Desperation.
OK SO WHY DID THEY RUN TO BEGIN WITH. WHAT DOES THAT PLACE DO. WERE THE GIRLS HURT BY SOMEONE. OR ARE THEY SNOTS THAT LIKE BRAKEN RULES.
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HOW DOES A KID GET THE COURAGE TO RUNAWAY IN A COMPLETLY BAD AREA LIKE THAT.
Desperation.
OK SO WHY DID THEY RUN TO BEGIN WITH. WHAT DOES THAT PLACE DO. WERE THE GIRLS HURT BY SOMEONE. OR ARE THEY SNOTS THAT LIKE BRAKEN RULES.
What's braken?
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BREAKING GRRR YOU KNEW THAT TOO
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HOW DOES A KID GET THE COURAGE TO RUNAWAY IN A COMPLETLY BAD AREA LIKE THAT.
Desperation.
OK SO WHY DID THEY RUN TO BEGIN WITH. WHAT DOES THAT PLACE DO. WERE THE GIRLS HURT BY SOMEONE. OR ARE THEY SNOTS THAT LIKE BRAKEN RULES.
There could be many reasons why they are running. Maybe they were told they were moving onto another program or they were told they were going home and didn’t want to go back home to the same old problems. Maybe it was early on in their stay and they were avoiding issues that they didn’t want to face and decided running was the best option.
But most kids run because they feel they are not wanted where they are.
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HOW DOES A KID GET THE COURAGE TO RUNAWAY IN A COMPLETLY BAD AREA LIKE THAT.
Desperation.
OK SO WHY DID THEY RUN TO BEGIN WITH. WHAT DOES THAT PLACE DO. WERE THE GIRLS HURT BY SOMEONE. OR ARE THEY SNOTS THAT LIKE BRAKEN RULES.
There could be many reasons why they are running. Maybe they were told they were moving onto another program or they were told they were going home and didn’t want to go back home to the same old problems. Maybe it was early on in their stay and they were avoiding issues that they didn’t want to face and decided running was the best option.
But most kids run because they feel they are not wanted where they are.
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Or....they're just scared they'll end up like some other Aspen Ed kids did while under their, ahem, "care". Dead.
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Or....they're just scared they'll end up like some other Aspen Ed kids did while under their, ahem, "care". Dead.
or maybe they were taken by aliens. lol
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For all I could know they could just be lost.
Entire groups in wilderness programs have been lost - both staff and students.
But because troubled teens are - troubled teens the reputation of the program is hurt less if the students ran away instead of got separated. If the girls are found none would believe them anyway.
RANGERS RESCUE CLIENTS FROM TROUBLED TEEN PROGRAM (http://http://www.wnbz.com/April%202007/042407.htm), WNBZ local news, April 2007
BTW: Friends of Katelynn Hall have been notified via the community network she was in, so they can help her to ask for protection by the social services if the friends manage to locate her first.
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For all I could know they could just be lost.
Entire groups in wilderness programs have been lost - both staff and students.
But because troubled teens are - troubled teens the reputation of the program is hurt less if the students ran away instead of got separated. If the girls are found none would believe them anyway.
RANGERS RESCUE CLIENTS FROM TROUBLED TEEN PROGRAM (http://http://www.wnbz.com/April%202007/042407.htm), WNBZ local news, April 2007
BTW: Friends of Katelynn Hall have been notified via the community network she was in, so they can help her to ask for protection by the social services if the friends manage to locate her first.
Good Info Oscar, thanks. SUWS has a few licensed Social workers which are on staff also. I am sure they are on standby.
I would guess they ran off. This is the initial phase for many kids heading to programs and they run away quite regularly. Its tough to just get lost from base camp and the last thing kids want to do in wilderness is take a walk somewhere. They are in the Blue Ridge mountains and will be found fairly quickly (would be my guess) unless they find outside help. This mountain region is mapped out fairly well with many cabins and lodges for them to take cover in.
Most likely outcome is they will be found and may be transferred to another Aspen wilderness program. This will be pricey for the parents so they will not be happy. But the kids will be able to get a fresh start that way.
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(http://http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/MassOChrist/shit.jpg)
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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(http://http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/MassOChrist/shit.jpg)
Frod, Isn't nature a wonderful thing. Did you ever wonder why it is tapered at the end? (Take a look at your picture) This is designed to protect you. If it were not tapered then at the end of your business your asshole would slam shut and it would hurt. So nature tapered it down for you......This way it closes slowly.
Something to think about and to be thankful for.
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Most likely outcome is they will be found and may be transferred to another Aspen wilderness program. This will be pricey for the parents so they will not be happy. But the kids will be able to get a fresh start that way.
Nah....they'll just be locked down tighter now and subject to High Impact type (I think that was the name, they all change so quickly to distance themselves from bad publicity that it's hard to tell anymore) tactics now, where they'll be in even more danger.
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Holy shit, Proxied's back, and he's listing dead kids. How the hell did I miss this?
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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The deputies response seems like a red flag to me. Does anyone know if this SUWS location has been investigated yet?
If by "investigated", you mean "investigated by a state agency or law enforcement", I can tell you the answer: Almost certainly not. An investigation would have been reported on, or at least mentioned in the article. Get a cooperative environment and nobody asks questions, even if the runaways are "several times a year". It's like Utah.
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The deputies response seems like a red flag to me. Does anyone know if this SUWS location has been investigated yet?
Joel, I think everyone is aware of the location of SUWS. It is the site of an old Boy Scout camp. It has a few buildings, electricity, running water and open outdoor areas and a lodge for indoor meetings.
I would be sure to think the local police know what they do there. The risk is high for kids to run away, so I dont really see it as a red flag. If you open up a bar in town you can expect a higher than usual number of drunk drivers after hours.
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In fact a boy made it out last year. A certain Gersema ran away from Phoenix Outdoor (http://http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php?title=Phoenix_Outdoor) located at the same addres and made it back home. Properly they would try to remain close to the railroad tracks and then see what happens once they are near a city.
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Some replies from Phoenix Outdoors.
Rezner Barber i was at phoenix outdoor february 1, 2008 - march 12, 2008. best experience of my life. :) i'm sooo sad it closed down though.
Lacie Rowe Yea I was sent there Oct. 19, 2007...and didn't end up coming home for good til April 21, 2009...it was a long road, thats for sure!
Henry Granju i got sent to phoenix in march of 09 had andy matt iceman izzie and some other instructors i cant remember. I hated eric he was a bitch. the day he told me i was going to boarding school i ran and made to some waffle house right outside of ashville but the cops caught me and brought me back. phoenix got bought by SUWS ...while i was there and after that shit was even more lame. but looking back on it now, i did have some fun and being surrounded by so much beautiful scenery for 13 weeks cant be too bad. but fuck eric and jason they manipulated my family into sending me to Cramer Creek in montana until i turned 18. wow
Hannah Bradshaw I went to Phoenix Outdoor in 2005, I was the third person ever to be there. I actually miss it sometimes!
Conor Thornton yeah i went to phoenix which is usually the first step to a long road ahead...It helped me and I enjoyed it
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Some replies from Phoenix Outdoors.
Curious, Whooter, that no link nor description for that site was provided... Perhaps this was an oversight? :D
Here are some more entries on the Wall of FB group Phoenix Outdoor (http://http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2360064380&v=wall):
Ethan Hogan pheonix = worst 2 months of my life but atleast my parents didnt buy into all of the bullshit they fed them
February 9 at 6:35am[/list]
Sinéad Politz hahahaha same here
April 28 at 4:38pm[/list][/list][/list]
Honey Bunches was at pheonix from august 8th till end of October.... Not rehab, boot camp.
April 14 at 3:56pm[/list][/list]
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Some replies from Phoenix Outdoors.
Curious, Whooter, that no link nor description for that site was provided... Perhaps this was an oversight? :D
Here are some more entries on the Wall of FB group Phoenix Outdoor (http://http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2360064380&v=wall):
Yes, it is the same page that you are on. Look a little further down and you will see the entries I posted.
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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The deputies response seems like a red flag to me. Does anyone know if this SUWS location has been investigated yet?
Joel, I think everyone is aware of the location of SUWS. It is the site of an old Boy Scout camp. It has a few buildings, electricity, running water and open outdoor areas and a lodge for indoor meetings.
I would be sure to think the local police know what they do there. The risk is high for kids to run away, so I dont really see it as a red flag. If you open up a bar in town you can expect a higher than usual number of drunk drivers after hours.
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Whooter the RI State Police came one time, in three years, to Eckerd Camp E-Hun-Tee for a child who ran away. They brought their tracking dogs and found the child 30 minutes later. Whereas sheriff deputies respond to children running away from this SUWS location several times per year. So, there is a problem that needs to be addressed. I wouldn't say there are necessarily abuse (I have not seen evidence to support such abuse claims) issues but I would say there are supervision issues. That is what my gut feeling tells me from work experience. I think it is time to start asking some tough questions about this SUWS camp. If there are articles about abuse/neglect I would like to see them.
:shamrock: :shamrock:
@Joel where was this camp/program Eckard you worked at, I lived in Charlestown and South Kingston growing up for a short time.
Danny
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Runaways located after 14-hour search (http://http://www2.mcdowellnews.com/news/2010/may/09/runaways-located-after-14-hour-search-ar-36206/), By Richelle Bailey, The Mcdowell News, May 09, 2010
Fortunately they were found safe.
Unfortunately before so they could be lawyered up and protected by the social services or in the legal system.
Once again minors ended up locked up without access to legal assistance or counseling on their behalf. Shameful that it is possible in year 2010
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The McDowell News Covering Marion and McDowell County, NC
Runaways located after 14-hour search (http://http://www2.mcdowellnews.com/news/2010/may/09/runaways-located-after-14-hour-search-ar-36206/)
By Richelle Bailey
Published: May 09, 2010
Authorities have found the two teen girls who walked away from a wilderness camp in Old Fort Thursday morning.
They were located around 10:30 p.m. Thursday in the woods of Mill Creek.
"The girls were found … safe and sound," said Kristen Hayes, communications director with CRC Health Group & Aspen Education Group, in an e-mail. "Apparently, they hid near the train tracks all day, never making it into town."
CRC is the parent company of SUWS of the Carolinas, the therapeutic wilderness camp program on Graphite Road in Old Fort from which the teens left Thursday.
The girls, 16-year-olds Katelynn Hall and Kayla Sunray, were last seen at the base camp around 6 a.m. Someone noticed their disappearance at 7 a.m., and authorities were notified at 8 a.m.
A 14-hour search proved to be fruitful.
"It was discovered (Thursday) morning that the two girls had left camp unauthorized," Hayes stated in the e-mail. "SUWS staff immediately contacted local authorities and a search team was assembled. Authorities and SUWS staff used every resource they had to find the students and worked closely with the girls' families throughout the search."
Hall is from Dyer, Ind. and Sunray from Clinton, Va.
SUWS of the Carolinas is a state licensed and nationally recognized outdoor behavioral health program for struggling teens. Hayes said it considers student safety its No. 1 priority.
©2010 Media General Communications Holdings, LLC.
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Runaways located after 14-hour search (http://http://www2.mcdowellnews.com/news/2010/may/09/runaways-located-after-14-hour-search-ar-36206/), By Richelle Bailey, The Mcdowell News, May 09, 2010
Fortunately they were found safe.
Unfortunately before so they could be lawyered up and protected by the social services or in the legal system.
Once again minors ended up locked up without access to legal assistance or counseling on their behalf. Shameful that it is possible in year 2010
There is no law against running away if you are under aged in this country so there was no need for the kids to get a lawyer or be protected from being thrown in jail. These kids were probably released back to their parents custody (not jail). Also if you look at SUWS website you will see that they have 2 licensed social workers working there full time so the kids will be well looked after and insure that they stay safe.
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There is no law against running away if you are under aged in this country so there was no need for the kids to get a lawyer or be protected from being thrown in jail.
Not true. Ordinarily, if you run away, and you get caught, you can be thrown in juvie.
It depends on what your parents want done with you. The law maintains that you should be home or wherever your parents have contracted out for you to be. If you refuse, it could be cell-time for you, baby!
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I have a friend that ran from Straight, got a lawyer and went before the judge. That's how he finally got out of Straight. Kids do have the right to due process....even in this - **cough** - "therapeutic" - **cough** setting. Hell, they even have the right to petition the court to refuse chemo, if they so choose.
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There is no law against running away if you are under aged in this country so there was no need for the kids to get a lawyer or be protected from being thrown in jail.
Not true. Ordinarily, if you run away, and you get caught, you can be thrown in juvie.
It depends on what your parents want done with you. The law maintains that you should be home or wherever your parents have contracted out for you to be. If you refuse, it could be cell-time for you, baby!
You have a point. They may hold you in juvenile until your fate is determined. But runaways are mainly returned to their parents custody. I can also see if the parents are not taking care of the kids and they are chronic runaways then they would be held and their fate would be run through the court system if social services felt the need or the kids made a case for themselves that they shouldnt be sent back or they were running from an unsafe environment.
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I have a friend that ran from Straight, got a lawyer and went before the judge. That's how he finally got out of Straight. Kids do have the right to due process....even in this - **cough** - "therapeutic" - **cough** setting. Hell, they even have the right to petition the court to refuse chemo, if they so choose.
Your friend was lucky. He got a lawyer. Kids that don't know any better, don't know that they have to ask for one to get one. That may not be how it's supposed to work, but that is ... how it often works, at least as it has in the past. This I do know all too well.
There are, to be sure, local and state differences. The kids in Pennsylvania (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=26989&start=0&hilit=kids+for+cash) may or may not have been able to get access to legal counsel, but it didn't seem to make much of a difference there.
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I have a friend that ran from Straight, got a lawyer and went before the judge. That's how he finally got out of Straight. Kids do have the right to due process....even in this - **cough** - "therapeutic" - **cough** setting. Hell, they even have the right to petition the court to refuse chemo, if they so choose.
Your friend was lucky. He got a lawyer. Kids that don't know any better, don't know that they have to ask for one to get one. That may not be how it's supposed to work, but that is ... how it often works, at least as it has in the past. This I do know all too well.
Oh, absolutely!! More often than not, when kids ran, the cops would just bring them right back. That's why it's imperative to have the abuse hotline phone numbers posted in all programs to inform kids that they do, indeed, have rights.
There are, to be sure, local and state differences. The kids in Pennsylvania (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=26989&start=0&hilit=kids+for+cash) may or may not have been able to get access to legal counsel, but it didn't seem to make much of a difference there.
Yep. It's deplorable.
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There is no law against running away if you are under aged in this country so there was no need for the kids to get a lawyer or be protected from being thrown in jail.
Not true. Ordinarily, if you run away, and you get caught, you can be thrown in juvie.
It depends on what your parents want done with you. The law maintains that you should be home or wherever your parents have contracted out for you to be. If you refuse, it could be cell-time for you, baby!
You have a point. They may hold you in juvenile until your fate is determined. But runaways are mainly returned to their parents custody. I can also see if the parents are not taking care of the kids and they are chronic runaways then they would be held and their fate would be run through the court system if social services felt the need or the kids made a case for themselves that they shouldnt be sent back or they were running from an unsafe environment.
Involving and relying on Social Services is a real mixed bag, IMO. There have been times when DHS has done the right thing, as was recently the case with Mount Bachelor Academy (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=29128) in Oregon. More often than not, however, too much depends on how much of a potential thorn in DHS's side the parents in question can be. It's substantially more difficult for them to make a case against a happily married, financially well-off couple than it is to target economically disadvantaged single parents. My guess is that folks who can afford to send their kids to SUWS of the Carolinas are less likely to be in the latter category.
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Some Comments (http://http://www2.mcdowellnews.com/news/2010/may/09/runaways-located-after-14-hour-search-ar-36206/) on the above article (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=30473&start=30#p363286):
Posted by karljohanson on May 10, 2010 - 3:19 a.m.
I am happy that they were found safe.But I am concerned because knowing the type of wilderness program they were detained in, they were not provided with legal representation as they would have if they had committed a crime.Most of the so-called clients or detainees, which are a better term, are either tricked by their parents to such program or simply pulled out of their bed at night by private youth transport firms and transported to the wilderness camps in handcuffs and shackles on the orders of their parents.How come that criminals are better protected that an ordinary teenagers, who may only have problems as little as an ordinary depression or being picky at the dinner table?What kind of society are we, when we send a message to our kids that you have to commit a crime in order to secure legal protection for you?As I stated above I volunteer for a NGO where we track records of possible abuse and deaths among minors in treatment. Every year we must acknowledge that we once again can observe how teenagers lost their lives in a treatment aimed to "treat" them. Every year we also most acknowledge that some cannot live on with the memories of the so-called treatment and choose to end their lives prematurely.When will it stop? We hope that 2010 will be the turning point, but as this story show, it will most likely not happen.My heart goes out for these girls. May they one day be able to return to their families safe and hopefully without so many scars from the "treatment".
Posted by joycon1 on May 11, 2010 - 5:29 p.m.
I agree with you and I think that teens should have a legal advocate who must be reported to by these programs.
[/list]
©2010 Media General Communications Holdings, LLC.
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Some Comments (http://http://www2.mcdowellnews.com/news/2010/may/09/runaways-located-after-14-hour-search-ar-36206/) on the above article (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=30473&start=30#p363286):
Posted by karljohanson on May 10, 2010 - 3:19 a.m.
How come that criminals are better protected that an ordinary teenagers, who may only have problems as little as an ordinary depression or being picky at the dinner table?
Because kids don't have rights!!! ~~ guess Who
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Karl Johanson is one of ours (http://http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/about_us.htm). Mr. Overgaard liked his post so much that he put it on our blog (http://http://secret-prisons-for-teens.blogspot.com/).
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Some Comments (http://http://www2.mcdowellnews.com/news/2010/may/09/runaways-located-after-14-hour-search-ar-36206/) on the above article (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=30473&start=30#p363286):
Posted by karljohanson on May 10, 2010 - 3:19 a.m.
I am happy that they were found safe.But I am concerned because knowing the type of wilderness program they were
detained in, they were not provided with legal representation as they would have if they had committed a crime.Most of the so-called clients or detainees, which are a better term, are either tricked by their parents to such program or simply pulled out of their bed at night by private youth transport firms and transported to the wilderness camps in handcuffs and shackles on the orders of their parents.How come that criminals are better protected that an ordinary teenagers, who may only have problems as little as an ordinary depression or being picky at the dinner table?What kind of society are we, when we send a message to our kids that you have to commit a crime in order to secure legal protection for you?As I stated above I volunteer for a NGO where we track records of possible abuse and deaths among minors in treatment. Every year we must acknowledge that we once again can observe how teenagers lost their lives in a treatment aimed to "treat" them. Every year we also most acknowledge that some cannot live on with the memories of the so-called treatment and choose to end their lives prematurely.When will it stop? We hope that 2010 will be the turning point, but as this story show, it will most likely not happen.My heart goes out for these girls. May they one day be able to return to their families safe and hopefully without so many scars from the "treatment".[/list]
Posted by joycon1 on May 11, 2010 - 5:29 p.m.
I agree with you and I think that teens should have a legal advocate who must be reported to by these programs.
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The fornits poster errrrr I mean (excuse me) <cough> "independent comment" was telling. The.... being sent to SUWS in shackles for being a picky eater added a nice touch and was priceless.
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The fornits poster errrrr I mean (excuse me) <cough> "independent comment" was telling.
Yes. Clearly they were attempting to hide........
Karl Johanson is one of ours (http://http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/about_us.htm)[/url]. Mr. Overgaard liked his post so much that he put it on our blog (http://http://secret-prisons-for-teens.blogspot.com/).
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Karl Johanson is one of ours (http://http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/about_us.htm). Mr. Overgaard liked his post so much that he put it on our blog (http://http://secret-prisons-for-teens.blogspot.com/).
Ha,Ha,Ha What a call.....Thats funny!! I know you guys better than you know yourselves.
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Karl Johanson is one of ours (http://http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/about_us.htm). Mr. Overgaard liked his post so much that he put it on our blog (http://http://secret-prisons-for-teens.blogspot.com/).
Ha,Ha,Ha What a call.....Thats funny!! I know you guys better than you know yourselves.
Yes. Clearly they were attempting to hide........
Karl Johanson is one of ours (http://http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/about_us.htm)[/url]. Mr. Overgaard liked his post so much that he put it on our blog (http://http://secret-prisons-for-teens.blogspot.com/).
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The fornits poster errrrr I mean (excuse me) <cough> "independent comment" was telling. The.... being sent to SUWS in shackles for being a picky eater added a nice touch and was priceless.
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Thank you very much. I would say that you are right that it is slightly overstated, but sometime it is the parent who needs treatment.
I found an episode from MTV juvies (http://http://www.mtv.com/shows/juvies/episode.jhtml?episodeID=100826). If you watch the episode you will learn that Dale's mom dragged him to all kind of hospitals and doctors claiming that he need treatment and one day when he left for drumming practice she reported him as a runaway. The police could just wait until he came home so they could put in the juvie. He ended up at his fathers place where he lived with no problems. He just missed his friends.
Remember "Who is watching the Kids" from MontanaPBS about the closed Spring Creek Academy (http://http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php?title=Spring_Creek_Lodge). A girl reported abuse and the father arranged for her to be shipped to the facility. The social services in her town was very close to alert the state police to get her back because the local police was financed by the facility.
What Johanson explains is that he feels that it is a problem if an independent third party which is not paid for doesn't get the chance to investigate the matter and decide if treatment should be put into action. What would a therapist in a program do if it is discovered that the parent is mentally ill and the payment of 450 dollars per day has been paid for a period?
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Karl Johanson is one of ours (http://http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/about_us.htm). Mr. Overgaard liked his post so much that he put it on our blog (http://http://secret-prisons-for-teens.blogspot.com/).
Ha,Ha,Ha What a call.....Thats funny!! I know you guys better than you know yourselves.
Yes. Clearly they were attempting to hide........
Ouch.... What is that you guys call it again? Oh yes, damage control.... you have been outed.
You have to admit that it was classic and funny.... fornits lingo right down the line.
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The fornits poster errrrr I mean (excuse me) <cough> "independent comment" was telling. The.... being sent to SUWS in shackles for being a picky eater added a nice touch and was priceless.
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Thank you very much. I would say that you are right that it is slightly overstated, but sometime it is the parent who needs treatment.
I found an episode from MTV juvies (http://http://www.mtv.com/shows/juvies/episode.jhtml?episodeID=100826). If you watch the episode you will learn that Dale's mom dragged him to all kind of hospitals and doctors claiming that he need treatment and one day when he left for drumming practice she reported him as a runaway. The police could just wait until he came home so they could put in the juvie. He ended up at his fathers place where he lived with no problems. He just missed his friends.
Remember "Who is watching the Kids" from MontanaPBS about the closed Spring Creek Academy (http://http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php?title=Spring_Creek_Lodge). A girl reported abuse and the father arranged for her to be shipped to the facility. The social services in her town was very close to alert the state police to get her back because the local police was financed by the facility.
What Johanson explains is that he feels that it is a problem if an independent third party which is not paid for doesn't get the chance to investigate the matter and decide if treatment should be put into action. What would a therapist in a program do if it is discovered that the parent is mentally ill and the payment of 450 dollars per day has been paid for a period?
I agree with you on the independent third party sign off. I have been for this requirement for awhile. The last part about finding out the parent was mentally ill I didn't understand totally.
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Ouch.... What is that you guys call it again? Oh yes, damage control.... you have been outed.
You have to admit that it was classic and funny.... fornits lingo right down the line.
How is it damage control when he posted that it was "one of ours" before anyone accused him of hiding?
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Ouch.... What is that you guys call it again? Oh yes, damage control.... you have been outed.
You have to admit that it was classic and funny.... fornits lingo right down the line.
How is it damage control when he posted that it was "one of ours" before anyone accused him of hiding?
Ouch........ Detainees, detained, shackles. Who else speaks that way? Must be a fornits poster.
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Ouch........ Detainees, detained, shackles. Who else speaks that way? Must be a fornits poster.
They ADMITTED IT UP FRONT.
Read for comprehension, Who.
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Ouch........ Detainees, detained, shackles. Who else speaks that way? Must be a fornits poster.
They ADMITTED IT UP FRONT.
Read for comprehension, Who.
Come-on Anne, it was obvious that fornits posters would recognize the signature wording as their own. Of course they had to come forward. I think it is funny that I nailed it right from the get go. See using detainees and gulags, shackles etc. seems normal to you here on fornits. But to people like myself who also read outside of fornits it sticks out like a sore thumb and is viewed as a parody of sorts.
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We don't exactly hide where we come from. Johanson has not and will not be a Fornits poster unless I am replaced. He has his area to cover. His work is to research certain areas and give his work to Henrik or Kurt.
As for transporters and shackles/handcuffs. According to Mr. Transport aka Rick Strawn putting handcuffs on the teenagers is policy. In 2009 shackles were found at Reclamation Ranch (http://http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php?title=Reclamation_Ranch) and Southeastern Military Academy (Known as Victory Forge Military Academy) (http://http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php?title=Victory_Forge_Military_Academy)
Of course some transport firms (http://http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php?title=Touchdown_Inc.) has found something which functions like shackles but looks more inncocent.
Then there is the term used for the teenagers placed in programs. They are in a legal loophole. The term "Detainees" was chosen but we are starting to write "teenager" where it is possible to attract more readers. We won't use the term "student" because there are too many programs out there where the education is not accredited and the use of "student" could fake parents to believe that their children cut use whatever they claim to have taught in local school, which very often is not the case.
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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If we are talking the author I have not read anything from her.
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We don't exactly hide where we come from. Johanson has not and will not be a Fornits poster unless I am replaced. He has his area to cover. His work is to research certain areas and give his work to Henrik or Kurt.
As for transporters and shackles/handcuffs. According to Mr. Transport aka Rick Strawn putting handcuffs on the teenagers is policy. In 2009 shackles were found at Reclamation Ranch (http://http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php?title=Reclamation_Ranch) and Southeastern Military Academy (Known as Victory Forge Military Academy) (http://http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php?title=Victory_Forge_Military_Academy)
Of course some transport firms (http://http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php?title=Touchdown_Inc.) has found something which functions like shackles but looks more inncocent.
Then there is the term used for the teenagers placed in programs. They are in a legal loophole. The term "Detainees" was chosen but we are starting to write "teenager" where it is possible to attract more readers. We won't use the term "student" because there are too many programs out there where the education is not accredited and the use of "student" could fake parents to believe that their children cut use whatever they claim to have taught in local school, which very often is not the case.
Its good to see that you are switching over to more mainstream and accurate language. I think it makes the wiki more credible.
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Its good to hear this pair are safe and OK. I hope when they get home the families can sort whatever is up out so they don't go back. I wanted to comment on wilderness runaways. I remember one guy who was older than most of the kids. He was nearly 18 and had spent a fair bit of time over the years at schools and camps for troubled kids. I think his original issue was drugs but he kept changing schools for not following the rules or getting expelled. He was basically just marking time till he could legally leave. On a social level he was personable and easygoing, if you didnt act like an asshole to him he didnt give you any attitude. He had no learning issues so could probably handle college too. Basically he seemed like a pretty average suburban kid. One guy i worked with had a real issue with him and claimed he was a sociopath. If he was I never saw any evidence of this.
His parents had said he had to see it through till he was 18 but he did not have much hope of making it work at home for long. I never got his parents side of the story. One thing he said though was that he didnt care about having to be homeless as he had lived so rough at wilderness, he could bust his own fire, live off minimal food and do without regular hot showers etc. He was originally from some southern state where hunting is common so could kill food. So making kids live really roughly the way they do at wilderness can really backfire. Given the cost of wilderness, most kids would be from families with at least some kind of disposable income. I wouldn't think such a kid would ever seriously consider being homeless. But some do. It makes me think wilderness can backfire pretty badly.
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i wish i was better at writing id write a book
imo it would be better with the cost of some programs if the kid is 18 or so to just get them an apartment and give them a monthly budget and a time frame saying your money will run out in X months maybe they might start doing stuff on there own but thats just my own felling
its sad MIT with full room and board costs less per year then Benchmark such bullshit
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We could be wrong, but it seems that Katelynns myspace account was active just a few days ago. It is a good sign. Sadly Kayla's is not. One of our case workers has emailed Kayla's brother.