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Messages - Jack1963

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So, Ottawa... is your son willing to post his story here? We'd like to hear it!

On 2004-06-25 10:40:00, ottawa5 wrote:

"He was in RMA in the late 90's and I would not be anymore specific than that without his permission, although I'm going to tell him about this site when he's home this weekend. He may be interested in tracking down a couple of old staff members who left meant a lot to him and left before he finished. If he wants to say more about his personal experience that will be up to him."

Only those who have worked for CEDU or as therapists can understand this. It is an evil company, top-down. Perhaps he was threatened.

On 2004-06-19 09:19:00, Anonymous wrote:

"What's going on?"

So glad you posted this, Max. We've known for decades that these "catharsis" myths escalate people. Not that CEDU would want to actually do the right thing...

You know, if they actually had people with REAL educations from REAL universities, this crap wouldn't be happening. I believe that there can be such a thing as a truly therapeutic boarding school. Some kids need a bilateral parentectomy. However, what I've seen so far is FAR from therapeutic.

On 2004-05-03 14:35:00, chinsk wrote:

"Thats to bad, the pillow pounding was one of my favorite parts in a propheet (it was the I wanna live right?)"

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Restraints
« on: May 03, 2004, 06:37:00 PM »
"Chemical restraint" is drugs - not pepper spray. He forgot to explain. They use stuff like Ativan, Thorazine, and sometimes Haldol. Maybe other stuff - I don't know.

On 2004-05-03 14:38:00, chinsk wrote:

"I don't ever recall a kid getting mased or pepper sprayed there.  All the restraining I ever saw was physical.  Some executed properly and with warrant, and most not.


On 2004-05-03 13:33:00, Maximus wrote:

"Kids are rarely restrained physically. In most cases chemical restraints are used. The escorts cuff them and the go to North Idaho Behavioral Health wher they are on observation and eventually are placated with drugs and the temporary removal of the CEDU environment. I would argue that it seems just as unethical to impose submission with drugs."


Welcome to these posts!

There are several lawsuits going on here. Look through the posts. If you were mistreated, you can speak up and do something.

Some of the posts are rageful. Some are from ex-students. Some are from staff. I suspect that there may be one or two from people at CEDU now. I have no reason to think this except for my brief time working there - it makes you paranoid about them.

It is interesting that although I have posted that I worked a short time, immediately started looking for another job when I saw how they treated the kids, I never abused the kids, I constantly caught hell from CEDU for not abusing them, and I still get letters almost ten years later from kids telling me that I was the only one who was kind and acted like I believed in them (I did), there are some here to yell at me in the posts.

It makes me wonder if they are turning the ears of new readers deaf. I am hoping that parents will look at these threads and decide to not send their kids there based on LOGICAL argument. Some of these posts might make them think that the person posting is a raving lunatic and will just not take that persons seriously.

Also, beating up ex-staff may not help convince them that they should speak up in the lawsuits. We can help these ex-students who are suing the school. However, if all they want to do is beat us up, how are we going to feel about that? I did contact some of the attorneys posted here. Staffers know things, even if we were there only a short time. We saw stuff - that's why we left.

So, new friend, I ask that you not post in a way that parents won't listen to you at all. CEDU is an abusive hell hole and we need to convince them of that there are 105 things they can do to help their kids that don't involve this kind of "treatment."

You also might be interested in knowing - and not surprised - that the staff, the "counselors" are uneducated. The only education they get is from the CEDU brainwashing. Some of them have degrees from California Coast University. This is no real university - it's an unaccredited, mail-order school. So, CEDU claims that they have counselors but they are just people who have been manipulated. The ones who are on some sick power trip enjoy abusing the kids. The ones like me, LEAVE.

I have spoken with ex-staff who believed that although they hated the treatment of the kids, that they were doing the right thing there. They finally figured it out and are full of remorse. Some of these people posting are not willing to allow a person that mistake. They are rageful and not allowing that a person with no training or experience might NOT UNDERSTAND that what CEDU does is not helpful and, in fact, harmful. They just were ignorant, and as soon as they figured it out, they left. So I am asking you to please be kind to these folks. They are trying to apologize for their ignorance and sometimes they're getting beaten up for that.

As for you, here it is a couple of decades later and you're still harmed by CEDU. Ask yourself the kinds of questions an attorney would ask - and call one of these attorneys. I'm glad you got out. You were never shipped back, I assume? Good for you! I'm glad you've made a life for yourself and am disgusted that CEDU is still hurting you. We are hoping a massive lawsuit will take them down.

You are so right about the profeets. Lots of kids lie just to get it over with. I went through one and refused to talk about myself and refused to cooperate with how they were treating the kids. Brandi Elliot (Running Springs) was enraged at me over this. Too bad. I was horrified. I was going to school (a REAL school) to earn a psychology degree, but I didn't need any of that to know that what was going on was wrong. I said so in my first staff meeting - that yelling and belittling and staff talking about some really raunchy and discusting stuff they had done was NOT therapeutic nor beneficial to ANYONE. Boy, did I get reamed.

And look - I was right. You weren't there very long and you are carrying scars for life. What do your parents say about it now? I'm curious. But don't blame them. CEDU has such slick packaging that they give scared parents hope. They promise their troubled kid will have a great life if they send him to CEDU. Parents are scared and don't know what to do. CEDU knows that and preys on their fears.

Then when the kids talk to their parents on the phone, the staff are always monitoring. If the kids get a chance to tell the parents they are miserable, the staff say that they are "manipulating." I remember asking if manipulating wasn't just doing what you needed to do to get what you needed. I got yelled at for that. But I was right. When those kids were doing things that staff called "manipulation" they were simply trying to get their needs met. Parents were taught to not listen.  

I hope you have been able to forgive your parents. They didn't know any better. I'm glad you got out when you did.

On 2004-04-24 10:14:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Wow....I looked up CEDU on the Internet to see if that hellhole still existed and discovered this forum.  I was enrolled at CEDU during 1982-83 timeframe.  It should say alot that after so many years, I still cringe when I remember that place.  Yes, I was a "troubled" teen...but the abuse CEDU issued, at the hands of it's counselors (John Pagent (sp) and Eric Meltzer to name a couple), was the most traumatic experience I went through as a teen.  I went through the Truth Profeet and was disgusted at some of the things people said just to have the counselor leave them alone.  I am not a psychologist or a psychiatrist, but I'm sure that yelling at kids, and belittling them in front of their peers, is not a proper form of "treatment." I ended up "splitting" from that cult, and made my way back home.  I still remember that school with a child's fear and hate that will never go away...even after so many years.  It does make me feel better knowing that I am not alone.  Please reply."

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / All BCA Stand up
« on: April 24, 2004, 01:13:00 PM »
Wow. I judge no one. I don't judge you. And I am no better than anyone. You need to chill so we can accomplish something here.

On 2004-04-24 09
:26:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Silence is a crime. And those who commit it need to die. That means all ex-staff. Hell on wheels is fucking right, he's telling it like it is. Fuck all staff, and Fuck CEDU. Oh and Jack, tell me what is new and good in your life.....tell me what makes you able to judge me? Tell me what makes you a little better than the rest of us. Or better yet keep your clinical observations to yourself, we had enough of that years ago."

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / All BCA Stand up
« on: April 23, 2004, 01:38:00 AM »
Thank you. That means a lot to me. I wasn't there very long because I started looking for another job immediately. But I've contaced one of those lawyers we've discussed on the boards. Yes, I'm scared of CEDU. I won't deny it. But I know all I have to do is tell the truth and the lawyer will protect me. My memories of CEDU make me sick. I thought some of those staff were decent and was shocked to see and hear them talk to the kids. And those profeets were just pure brainwashing-and abuse. And I saw that kid's grandfather trip and fall in Running Springs on a rug that we constantly complained about. It killed the old man. I hope the family reads these posts and contacts the attorneys.

On 2004-04-22 22:02:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Thats all we want Jack1963.  i too just joined this lawsuit against cedu for the abuse i went through there and want staff that are willing to practice what they preach.  you may never have abused a child there, but i know you saw it.  if you truely are willing to submit testimony on this issue them you are truely a good person and i forgive you.  im just sick of all these staff members whinning about being scared of chuck salant and cedu.  chuck is a little faggot, and cedu is a program very close to being shut down.  as i said, if you can practice what you preach and are really willing to submit testomoney then give us  some way to contact you.  if you are truely this strong a person, i think i can speak for everyone in saying we forgive you and need your help, if not please dont say you are again."

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / All BCA Stand up
« on: April 23, 2004, 12:51:00 AM »
I've figured it out. Some of the people posting just want to rage. They refuse to listen, they don't care about the truth, they will not tolerate any input that goes against their beliefs. Too bad. I came onto these posts to help. I want to get parents to not send their kids to CEDU. I was stupid enough to think that these boards were for giving out information and for discussions. Hell on Wheels just wants to beat people up.

You have no idea what it was like to be a staff and I've said it several times here - I NEVER MISTREATED A KID - and I left very quickly after starting. I am sorry that you had your bad experience. YOu can ask any kid who knew me in Running Springs and they will tell you that I CARED and I was NEVER mean to them. I constantly caught hell for this. Furthermore, several kids were devastated when I left and here it is, almost 10 years later, and I STILL get letters from some of them. They tell me that I helped keep them sane and they were devastated when I left.

I wish you had the backbone and integrity to respect the fact that some of us were NEVER like those whom you are so angry with. I feel for you, but I wish you would engage in meaningful discussion instead of constantly raging at everyone.

And, as I've said before, some of the staff who DID buy into it were almost brainwashed. They believed they were doing the right thing. Were there controlling, horrible people in the staff. Absolutely. But to paint all with the same brush is ridiculous.

Also, I am not on these posts to whine. I am hoping to see some legal action against CEDU and I would like to submit my testimony. I want NOTHING from CEDU. I don't want a dime. But I can help in any lawsuit that is going on.

So, Hell on Wheels, consider that you may be causing some parents to ignore your points with your rageful attitude. You want to convince them - not make them think you're a raging nut.

On 2004-04-22 21:22:00, Anonymous wrote:

"i love hell on wheels, who are these staff that think they are not innocent and exonerated of all charges. you were the problem and choose not to be the solution, dont try to be it now years later cause we dont wanna hear it"

I don't know what you mean by exaggerating a few thousand times. I'm actually very careful to not exaggerate, as when people do, they lose credibility. Everything I have posted about CEDU is factual. I want every word I speak to be believed and respected. I know what I saw. I know what I did. And I was very happy to get out of that hell hole. My only regret in leaving was that I couldn't break any kids out when I left!

On 2004-04-22 14:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

"the analogy from this person is horrible, but i do see what they are saying.  when i was there all the staff were horrible to me. i hated every day there, and was drugged to the point i could hardly even move from cedus own dr kavorkian aka george ulrich.  as i said before, this kids analogy was bad and exagerated, but as an ex cedu staff im sure you can understand extreamly overexagerating something.  i would guess youve done it a few thousand times!!!"

Thanks for your post here, Ginger. The anger of some of these ex-students posting just shows me how hurt they were. They are angry at us as ex-staff. I've posted many times that I NEVER treated a kid  badly and was constantly harassed by CEDU for it. As I've posted on other pages, even those staff who bought into it were duped. Many were young and believed what CEDU taught them. It's unfair to not allow people to say that they were wrong and have remorse.

Also, the poster comparing Nazi remorse for the Holocaust to ex-staff is insulting to the millions who were slaughtered and abused by the Nazis. It is absurd. Systematic gassing, torture, and other unspeakable cruelties by Nazis could never compare with anything that CEDU ever did.

One of my concerns is that when we see inflammatory posts, it may turn inquiring people away from the posts. We want to present rational, logical arguments for our complaints against CEDU. There is nothing wrong with an impassioned argument, but ridiculous analogies won't get anyone to take seriously the argument the person is trying to make.

On 2004-04-22 13:25:00, Antigen wrote:

"You don't have to like them or believe them, but it might be worth your while to sit back and see what they do and what they have to say. I tend to believe people who talk w/ their feet.

The law in its majestic equality, forbids all men to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread - the rich as well as the poor

--Anatole France


Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen

Seed sibling `71 - `80

Straight South (Sarasota, FL)

   10/80 - 10/82

Anonymity Anonymous

It is wrong to leave a stumbling block in the road once it has tripped you."

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Kids Fucking Pigs
« on: April 22, 2004, 01:18:00 AM »
I don't buy it. C'mon! No one can have sex with a cat. He might have been kind of jacking off, but he could not possibly get penetration. Cat genitalia is tiny. There is no way the kid actually had sex with a cat.

On 2004-04-21 21:47:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Im interested in if BCA has students as disgusting as when i was time started off with a kid getting caught having sex with a tiny kitty cat.  i thought this was the nastiest thing someone could ever do, but i forgot i was at BCA and no one would be outdone without a fight.  Next came Nick Speat who "porked the pork" to say it nicely.  a few weeks later our lovely pig jazzy was taken off hopefully to be destroyed.  i still to this day will not eat pork.  im fairly confident that that sick fuck took the cake, but im really hoping the school did not stay as disgusting.  i mean really, sex in the chicken coop very nasty, sex with a cat disgusting, but a kid fucking a pig...where do they find these kids, and how on Gods green earth to they expect us to accept these people."

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Jim Powell
« on: April 22, 2004, 01:17:00 AM »
Anyone have any stories about Jim Powell? He was administrator at the California CEDU (Running Springs). I worked there and some parents called him a "carnie" and a "flim flam man."

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / All BCA Stand up
« on: April 17, 2004, 05:46:00 PM »
It does sound paranoid, but many ex-staffers are fearful of CEDU. It's not like we think they are going to do a driveby. We just fear that they will sue us for libel or have a negative impact on our careers. My fear is lawsuit. Although everything I post is true, what happens in courtrooms is not necessarily just nor is it true. Plenty of bogus claims are rewarded in the courtroom. So, I'm not willing to step forward.

I think part of the experience is the way they spied on us. I mean, it was unreal. Information got back to me that they could not have have possibly known had they not been spying on me. As people say, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't out to get you!

On 2004-04-15 10:17:00, chinsk wrote:

"I am not sure of their ability to get your or comparing them to the likes of the mob.  I don't understand why they are viewed as being scary.  In reality what are they going to do?  I would love for them to come after me, but why the hell would they?  What is so scary about them?  "

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / All BCA Stand up
« on: April 13, 2004, 04:57:00 PM »

On 2004-04-13 10:42:00, chinsk wrote:

"By the way, if anyone wants to hear stories or has questions, give me a nudge and I will throw down some posts."

Wow. I can see you are enraged. I don't blame you. However, we all did not do those things. I refused to - consistently. I was constantly pissing them off because I refused to belittle kids, I refused to go along with the program. I was always kind and told the kids I believed in them. They loved me. Parents and kids were devastated when I left. Parents called me at home after I disappeared. Lots of kids were pulled then. Parents begged me to stay, but, I had to leave because working there was making me sick. I went to work there to help kids. I left because I could not be a part of it all. I was in trouble a lot there.

As for the other staff, I don't know. Some who felt as I did told me that at least they knew that they were being kind and decent and if they left, they would be leaving kids with those horrible people. I still get letters from kids, years later, telling me how they appreciated my kindness and my absolute faith in them.

Staff who were unkind were ignorant and plenty of them were on sick power trips. Others were gullible and believed what they were taught. People make mistakes - even mistakes that hurt others. Some people have terrible remorse. Please allow yourself to forgive those who ask you. Harboring hatred hurts only you. The best revenge is living well!


On 2004-04-11 13:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Fucking Right! INDICTMENT think of this as time traveling honesty! You bunch of ex-staff pussies.....You had a fucking chance to help, to rectify the situation, but you did not. Goddamn pussies, now you want to cry and tell us how sorry you all are???? You don't have to tell us, we were there. And through our rose colored glasses, we could see we were in a world of shit. Some of those days all it would have taken was a little leniency, a kind word, but no, nothing but Fuck-up inferences, calling people out on their private shit in front of everybody, that is so fucked up. You could have done something about it, we couldn't. We could either go along and get along, or get sent to lock-downs. And by the way for those of you keeping score, Lockdowns had none of this brainwashing shit, just bars and a slightly more violent general population. Probably had real counselors that could exercise good judgement for you. CEDU, Synanon, straight.....see you in hell"

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