Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Seed Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Stripe on May 08, 2006, 03:36:00 AM
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Just like the rest of us, Art Barker is going to die. It might be from old age or disease - but death is as inevitable for him as it is for the rest of us.
So, that being said...imagine that you have been asked to give a eulogy for him. Put it up here.
Or, if a tribute is not your cup of tea, what parting words do you have for the man?
Here's what I have to say.
Old man, I forgive you. I forgive you for for being blind, arrogant, stupid, and cruel.
The society you sought to create through The Seed program was doomed to fail from the outset. It was doomed because it sought to crush the human spirit and replace it with your warped teachings.
I have no need to recount your acts of arrogance, stupidity and cruelty. History has recoreded them here and those acts are written on your soul. Forever.
Fade to black.
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Does anyone know the current health of Art?
Last I heard he was rather sickly. Any updates?
As for a eulogy, I don't know what I would say. I certainly do forgive him, but I am not sure it needs to be said now. I think he really believed he was the savior of american youth, and he didn't realize he was actually hurting many of the kids he was "saving". His vision failed, and I think deep down he knows the truth. That is enough for me.
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When, in time, good old Art passes I'll honor his memory with a few good friends by pouring a pint of the finest British Royal Navy rhum upon his grave, only after first running it through our own gullets to assure quality.
sunday school: A prison in which children do penance for the evil conscience of their parents.
--H. L. Mencken, American publisher
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You always were one to have Class.
Now I'm sure of it.
God Bless you.
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May I sugest a tatoo & possibly a piercing, that also would be right up your ally.
Speaking of ally's. :lol:
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Sorry but I thought the same thing Ginger did before even reading her post. I will piss on that bastards grave someday. It is only a matter of when. That pile of shit can go straight to hell!
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Our time on this earth is short, so I ask that we all think well of one another...
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Do you people piss on many graves? Maybe its the part of the county you come from.
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Lauderdale, where is your sense of humor? Ginger's joke was not only funny, it was set up perfectly!
:lol:
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On 2006-05-08 10:17:00, FueLaw wrote:
"Sorry but I thought the same thing Ginger did before even reading her post. I will piss on that bastards grave someday. It is only a matter of when. That pile of shit can go straight to hell!"
you know my friend, I thought that at one time in the not to distant past as well. I in no way condone what he did, believe in his methods, or appreciate the way my life and the life of others was torn asunder by our affiliations with the seed.
But Art is a fallable human being just like the rest of us. He screwed up, and screwed up big time, and in the end it all caved in around him.
In the process He did convince himself of the rightousness of what he was doing. Maybe he is still deluding himself to this day..doesn't really matter to me anymore. Somehow I have truly found a personal avenue to forgive him for what he did, and his acceptance or acknowledgment of that isn't even important to me.
What is important to me today is that those that went thru treatment have an avenue of understanding just what the fuck happened to them, and that somehow people understand that this entire treatment modality as practiced today is ineffective, harmfull, and downright counterproductive.
Art going to Hell? I hope not because even tho I have forgiven him, I don't really covet his company in eternity.
:grin:
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On 2006-05-08 13:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Do you people piss on many graves? Maybe its the part of the county you come from.
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I'm from Ft. Lauderdale. You?
People say that, but I think it's the other way around. Life is too damned long to suffer fools. I'll think well of those who impress me, thanks very much.Religion is just mind control.
--George Carlin, comedian
_________________
fka ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
return undef() if /coercion/i;[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-05-08 15:15 ]
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No actually Stripe set it up & no I don't think it was funny & yes I do have a sence of humor.
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I'm going to take the long view and say that the Seed was an inevitable reaction to the counterculture of the '60s - if it hadn't been Art, it would have been someone else. And even without Synanon, AA provided a quasi-religious framework that can be used, and perhaps abused, by anyone who wants to set up their own AA-style group. I understand that AA is against this, and is supposed to be non-political, and non-personality, but look at the worship of founder Bob W. Anyway, someone somewhere would have tried to save kids from drugs, and althought the Seed had issues and may have been fundamentally wrong (as proven by the abuses in later copy-cat programs) I tnink Art genuinely cared and thought he was doing the right thing. Sure, ego and control played into the Seed's strength and weaknesses, and we can argue all day over whether individual people were helped or harmed, (and I think both things occured) but whatever your view is, we were a part of a big social phenomena that is still ongoing today. Personal animosity towards Art is going to happen, but from what I've read on other forums, the Seed was a comparitive piece of cake. Not to minimize anyone's problems with the Seed, but we, as a society, bought into this, or at least our parents did, and until we have some sanity about drugs, (and sex and rock and roll - er, rap) will be in this pickle for a while. I have a one year old now and do I want her deeply involved in drug culture? No. Do I want her to be a rigid, religious fanatic anti-counterculture crusader? No. I want a balanced, thoughtful, open person who enjoys her life and has a sense of humor. I hope she has good friends and family. So - I digress, but that's what we were all looking for thru the Seed - security and belonging and hope.
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Well said Cleveland
G
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I agree well said....I think about Ginger...she had more invested. I feel like I did my time and moved on with my life. Art was a survivor. He invested his intrests with the kids who came from money. The people that became staff were kids that came from a lot of green... cookie, terry & suzie come to the top of my head. I am still interested in the Plain Dealer article about Cookie's inheritence going to the seed. Of course I haven't been doing any research since I posted that first question to this site...what happened to cookie and her inheritence....cuz that was a main brainwashing rap... when I grow I am going to be a lawyer and put kids in the seed and give all my money to the seed. The f----ing seed city. I was like please you people are out to total lunch... I want a life...and I got one. So Art YOU HAVE YOUR F____ING KARMA YOU DIE BITCH FOR ALL THE PEOPLE YOU F---- UP BUT YA DIDN'T GET ME. I have done this life too many times and your comming back and doing earth school again and somebody is gonna teach that ego right.....LOVE&PEACE Karen K
hmmmmm Did that sound a little harsh???Please respond
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i'm just wondering how we say "you die bitch"
and sign off with love and peace
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I would thank God for having someone that came along and helped many people survive and live a better life. I truly believe his intentions were good.
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there is an old wise saying, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."
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On 2006-05-09 15:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i'm just wondering how we say "you die bitch"
and sign off with love and peace"
Yeah, that's so unchristian! I think maybe it's time for a reading from The Sermon On The Mount by Emmit Fox. He was just such a wise and wonderful man. I think you all could learn from his insights.
Now, I think we should all snap our fingers and swing our hands back and forth for a dozen rounds of Zippety Do Dah!
Louder!
Louder!
[ This Message was edited by: The Alterboy on 2006-05-09 19:31 ]
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er, no thanks alterboy.
The forced singing of zip it dee do da is so horrible that baby seals have been known to club themselves to death upon hearing the agony of teenagers compelled to sing it in exchange for a shot at freedom.
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Not one single person here, whether you love him or hate him or feel nothing, none of us are going to get any kind of personal notification when this man passes on. As much as he was worshiped by some, adored by others, and some spent great big chunks of their young lives devoted to the guy and his cause, chances are his inevitable passing will be very quite.
None of us make a difference in this man's life today. I wonder sometimes if we ever really did. Well, maybe one or two were really loved and cared about, but certainly not the majority of us. But please, at least here, don't judge each other for what is expressed. Just let it happen and if it dies a natrual death, so be it. Surely we don't need to segregate the messages into "good" and "bad" so no one get offended.
This thread was meant as an opportunity to put something out there for Art Barker- like the old unmailed letter routine - except this letter kind of gets mailed. Haven't any of you ever lost someone before you had a chance to make amends or say how you really felt? Say what mattered to you - tell someone how he or she affected your life, how they were a factor that helped change it?
I simply proposed to have a say. If he helped you and you want to express that, go for it. Do it now, maybe he will read it or someone will tell him and it will do his heart good.
If don't like him but you can forgive him, or are indifferent, whatever you feel, express it. Or not.
[ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2006-05-09 21:31 ]
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Other than the people he kept in close contact with, we were just positive slash marks he made in some fantasy version of his where 90% of everyone locked up and inprisoned in the seed became drug free successfull adults. I don't think anyone has mentioned to him that this may be faulty, but again....it is a bit later for changing any of that.
Your right stripe. The passing will be quiet except within the tight community of Ft Lauderdale seedlings.
I for one would appreciate if someone who is in that society post here upon his passing.
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On 2006-05-08 14:08:00, GregFL wrote:
"Lauderdale, where is your sense of humor? Ginger's joke was not only funny, it was set up perfectly!
I agreed it's funny. Stripe laid out the subject but the joke was all Ginger's own.
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On 2006-05-10 12:13:00, NOT12NOW wrote:
"
On 2006-05-08 14:08:00, GregFL wrote:
"Lauderdale, where is your sense of humor? Ginger's joke was not only funny, it was set up perfectly!
I agreed it's funny. Stripe laid out the subject but the joke was all Ginger's own.
"
Why thank you, !12. How nice of you to say. But I can't really take all the credit. I learned that from an old Scottsman from Alberta who reminded me very much of a rather large dwarf; long haired, overfed leaping gnome wouldn't be too far off, but old age, hard life, bad knees and all...
Anyway, to answer the other question, no, I don't piss on graves much. In fact, never done it before in my life. It takes a special kind of person to earn that kind of contempt from me.
There's a special place in hell for those who lead others astray and more faith in honest doubt than in half the creeds.
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of it's victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busy-bodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those that torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
C.S. Lewis, God In The Dock
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Holy shit! Whe the hell is EudoraDreamt??
Meet the seller
Seller: eudoradreamt ( 0 )
Member: since Jul-01-02 in United States
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... %3AIT&rd=1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7029117066&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1)
Has the whole world gone maaaaaaad???
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My work is done here! And, WTH, the sun is over the yard arm somewhere.
So to all the jerks trying to get people to out themselves, get a clue. Life is not a Hyde seminar.
Lars
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Hey does that mean you won't be back???? :grin:
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"i'm just wondering how we say "you die bitch"
and sign off with love and peace
Doesn't confuse me. It's called mixed emotions, ever have them?
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Hey Waygookin! Guess what? I'm gettin' two bottles of tax free Pusser's. I got the first one all figured out, but I'll need a good excuse to tap the second. If you find yourself in the Pgh area w/ time to kill on the way home, I have a basement that's comfortable in the Summer months. Naturally, we'd be obliged by the rules of civility to pay homage for good stories well told from abroad in some way, right? What better way than with a fine bottle of British Royal Navy Rhum?
Oh, feel free to bring a broad too if you want. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin
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Whats all those bright lights comming out of your basement windows? Do you have a really HIGH electric bill? Such a funny smell.
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Terry, is that a threat?
History gives us a kind of chart, and we dare not surrender even a small rushlight in the darkness. The hasty reformer who does not remember the past will find himself condemned to repeat it.
--John Buchan
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threat? I think you've lost it completely.
Not that I knew you ever had it.
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What's that stickin' out from under your back seat? A pair of Olson Twins panties?
Get the point? Fuck w/ me, buddy. I've been practically a saint w/ you people for the past 3 decades or so. I'm really sort of getting tired of this shit.
Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"
Priest: "No, not if you did not know."
Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"
--Annie Dillard, "Pilgrim at Tinker Creek"
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You are off your rocker. What the hell are you talkin about. Take a deep breath. Let it out. OK.
I think you finally blew a fuse.
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Greg you might want to talk to your friend. She sounds like she needs someone to talk to.
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Anon/Terry, whoever you are all hungup in your "anonymity" like it's some kind of badge of honor to be able to insult and run like a chicken:
Please, get a fucking clue and man-up, pal. Either that, or get back in the back seat and beat off with you dream lover images of MaryKate, Ashley and Art Barker.
If you want to screw with people and post such stupid and thinly-veiled accusations because you don'tlike what someone thinks, start your own fucking website and spend your fucking money. Weak-minded trolls like yourself are laughable.
And yes, I too will remain anonymous because afterall, like the good Seedling I am I'm just telling you how I feel - being honest and all that shit.
:wave:
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Say What?
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On 2006-05-12 17:26:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
Man major props to the man who tags one of the Olsen Twins.
even more major props to the man who talks them into a lesbian porn flick.
No, no, no! I mean undies w/ Olson Twins logo. [sigh] Ok, poor choice. I was trying to think of what a teeny bopper would wear.
Every act of a delegated authority, contrary to the tenor of the commission under which it is exercised, is void. No legislative act, therefore, contrary to the Constitution, can be valid. To deny this, would be to affirm, that the deputy is greater than his principal; that the servant is above his master; that the representatives of the people are superior to the people themselves; that men acting by virtue of powers, may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what they forbid."
--Alexander Hamilton
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Think Terry knows, though?
The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy.".
--George Washington, Revolutionary War General and U.S. President
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:question: About staff in the mid 70's...was Libby Macdonald on staff then? She was a client earlier, I think.
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reply to cleveland, may 9 'we all went there for security and belonging? i personally find that astonishing... i went there because they falsely testified that substances in my posession were illegal drugs... much too late those substances were identified by a hospital toxicology lab as just what i said they were... water purification tablets, a rx de-congestant, vitamin tablets... a clergyman in pinellas told me that they were in common practice of plantingevidence, and perjured testimpony against him... co-erced testimony in fact... a teacher in dade was told that evidence would be supplied against him if he tried to intervene on my behalf...no, mesdamme, i went there scared to death and looking for way out.. ::unhappy:: pls don't mis-understand me.. i'm new to the internet and am amused mby these stupid emoticons
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:seg2:
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Art died, I'm sure a lot of people deserve to know of this