Post by: Carey on September 06, 2007, 08:39:30 PM
> https://www.theplanet.com/index.html?p=legal (https://www.theplanet.com/index.html?p=legal)
> (214)782-7800 :: 1-800-377-6103
> Fax:: (214) 782-7756
>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2007 2:50 PM
> *To:* Legal Response; Legal
> *Cc:* Abuse
> *Subject:* RE: Urgent - Abuse at ThePlanet - Death Threats and more
>
> And another - Read this email from sueschefftruth.com - Death Wish -
> Death Threat? - Please advise. I can't believe ThePlanet would > condone
> this. Everyone is taking this seriously.
>
>
> Author : Michael "Psy" Crawford (IP: 82.123.236.101
>
> ATuileries-153-1-29-101.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr
>
> E-mail : http://www.sueschefftruth.com (http://www.sueschefftruth.com)
> Whois : http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl?que ... 23.236.101 (http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl?queryinput=82.123.236.101)
>
> Comment:
>
> Hey BITCH. Why don't you share Joyce Harris's Happy testimonial.
> Howabout the GREENS. You are WORSE than WWASP. At least they don't
> pretend to be righteous. You sicken me more than any human being I > have
> ever known to exist and I hope you get hit by a truck. That was not a
> death threat, that was a curse. A death WISH.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------> --
>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2007 3:34 PM
> *To:* 'Legal Response'
> *Subject:* RE: Urgent - Abuse at ThePlanet - Death Threats and more
>
> Dear Legal Response Team -
>
>
>
> I had forwarded the links in my previous email - attached they are
> copied and pasted into a Word Doc - the Links are within it.
>
>
> With or without the death threats - these websites clearly violate > your
> AUP and TOS since they are created to harass, malign, slander, defame,
> fraud and more. As I have attached previously, I have a Final > Judgment
> against Carey Bock - as well as a full investigation through the FBI
> regarding Michael Crawford who runs sueschefftruth.com.
>
> On your
> http://www.theplanet.com/about_us/legal ... Acceptable (http://www.theplanet.com/about_us/legal_docs/Planet%20Acceptable)%> 20Usage%20Policy%20AUP%20011507%20FINAL.pdf
> AUP
> page 6 it states the violations these websites are in.
>
> If you condone this behavior, I would be shocked - as no reputable > Host
> Server has - and I doubt that you do. I will also let you know that
> reputable websites such as Digg and PR Webwire have banned these
> people. This is Internet Terrorism - and to allow it only promotes > more
> hate and abuse.
>
>
> Please advise me of what steps I need to take next. Again, please > keep
> my emails confidential.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------> --
>
> *From:* Legal Response [mailto:[email protected]]
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2007 3:14 PM
> *Subject:* FW: Urgent - Abuse at ThePlanet - Death Threats and more
>
> Dear Ms. Scheff:
>
>
> Please note that we were unable to locate on the web page
> www.fornits.com (http://www.fornits.com)
>
>
> (GMT-6).
>
>
> Legal Response Team
>
> ThePlanet.com
>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2007 9:22 AM
> *To:* Legal; '[email protected] (http://mailto:'[email protected])'
> *Subject:* Urgent - Abuse at ThePlanet - Death Threats and more
>
> **CONFIDENTIAL - NOT TO BE FORWARDED, COPIED OR PASTED OUTSIDE OF
> THEPLANET OFFICES**
>
> **THIS IS EXTREMELY SENSITIVE INFORMATION AND COULD POTENTIALLY PUT MY
> FAMILY AND MYSELF AT DANGER IF RELEASED.**
>
>
> To: The Planet Abuse Dept.
>
>
> Re: Abuse on the the following websites that you host - > **according to
> your AUP** (Prohibited Activities) they are in extreme
> violation: www.fornits.com (http://www.fornits.com)
> defamation, encouraging bodily harm, invasion of privacy and more)
> www.careybock.com (http://www.careybock.com)
> libelous, harassment, **outright fraud**, and more. (See attached > final
> judgment) - www.sueschefftruth.com (http://www.sueschefftruth.com)
> created by **Michael Crawford** (see attached bio) who is being
> investigated by the FBI - and they have the death wish he sent me via
> email - this website is full of malicious content, harassing, > fraudulent
> information - including a lawsuit I never received, links to
> Anti-Semitic postings, and more. I am confident you will agree this
> is purely being used as a "hate" and harassment site. Make note
> that prior landing on the Planet - they were removed from GoDaddy and
> Netfirms.
>
>
>
> If you go to the above listed websites and do a
> search on my name or my business - PURE (Parent's Universal Resource
> Experts, Inc) - you will be apalled at the** threats**,
> defamation, slander, Anti-Semitic postings and more -even listing a
> lawsuit (Green v Focal Point) I have never received to further slander
> me. I have attached the bio of **Michael Crawford** - who is driving
> this obsession of cyber-stalking - he is currently being > investigated by
> the FBI - you can confirm with Agent Jeff Etters and Agent Brad Rex,
> Miami FBI 305-787-6654.
>
>
> Last fall, I won in a **jury trial** a judgment of _$11.3M - $5M of it
> was for punitive damages_ for **Internet Defamation and Invasion of
> Privacy**. The defendants, Ginger Warbis -MCNulty (Fornits) and Carey
> Bock were working in conjunction to literally destroy and ruin me > and my
> business - as well as my children. At one point, someone had > posted my
> daughter was **dead**. Since the law is gray on the responsibility of
> the Host - (Warbis-Fornits), I decided to dismiss her from the lawsuit
> early on and only sue Bock. It was due to financial reasons, the > legal
> cost me over $150K with just the one defendant. I had to second
> mortgage my home and go through my savings to protect my children.
>
>
> At the end - I was fully vindicated - however it only escalated the
> abuse as they now post as anonymous - and want to prove my verdict > means
> nothing to them. I retained Reputation Defender to help me keep their
> horrors off the top of Google - however I have now learned there are
> **death threats** on the website www.fornits.com (http://www.fornits.com)
>
> that website, it nearly destroyed to the point I closed my office and
> never left my house. If you go to the website on the forum and do a
> search on my name (Sue Scheff) and PURE (they actually have PURE
> Bullshit as a forum) - I am confident you will have no problem seeing
> this horrific abuse.
>
>
> I was recently featured on 20/20 ABC News earlier this month - and > from
> there - this has escalated.
>
> They are also attacking my colleague, Isabelle Zehnder. **This is
> serious **- and I do hope ThePlanet takes this seriously. Just
> prior signing up for The Planet - they were "**removed**" from GoDaddy
> and Netfirms (in Canada).
>
>
> I have filed a police report with Broward Sherriff's office
> (File#W505031987) in Florida, I have filed a report with Internet > Crimes
> Bureau as well as my local FBI office (listed above). I am hoping
> criminal charges will be brought against these people. My lawyer is
> David Pollack, Miami, FL - 305-372-5900 or email at
> www.suescheff.com (http://www.suescheff.com)
> worst forms of **Internet Terrorism** I have experienced. I have been
> interviewed by major media outlets - who did their due diligence on > me -
> I am a reputable person being targeted by Internet Terrorist - please
> don't all all them to "use" The Planet as their stomping ground.
>
>
> I look forward to your response and swift attention. I only hope you
> will remove these sites from your Host Server. If you have any > further
> questions or comments, please call me or email me. **Please keep my
> name and email confidential.**
>
>
> Thank you in advance for time and prompt attention.
Post by: Anonymous on September 06, 2007, 08:54:36 PM
Post by: Carey on September 06, 2007, 09:10:50 PM
Quote
Is Sue trying to get fornits taken down again?
Yes, fornits, sueschefftruth and careybock.com.
Post by: Anonymous on September 06, 2007, 09:17:00 PM
Quote
It is imperative you do not forward, copy
> or paste my email/letter outside of ThePlanet - it could potentially
> cause me more harm.
:lol:
Pwnt.
Post by: Joyce Harris on September 06, 2007, 09:52:28 PM
"Hey BITCH Why don't you share Joyce Harris's Happy testimonial"
is referring to the ISAC Statement made by my husband, Richard Harris and myself in 2005?
Post by: Anonymous on September 06, 2007, 10:00:48 PM
call the FBI office, give them your side of the story. get lots of people affected by sue scheff to call the FBI, and tell them their side of the story. you're not risking anything unless you lie, or you say something stupid.
i doubt the FBI is taking sue seriously and calling them would further reinforce that notion. I think she ran herself up shit creek by getting the authorities involved, because the FBI is quite thorough, and i really dont think they'd just dissmiss complaints from hundreds of kids and dozens of parents.
i mean...that letter from sue, i dont think anyone could possibly take her seriously after that. she sounds just like a 90 year old woman who's calling the cops on the boogieman in the basement.
Post by: hanzomon4 on September 06, 2007, 10:01:03 PM
- I have filed a police report with Broward Sherriff's office
> (File#W505031987) in Florida, I have filed a report with Internet > Crimes - he is currently being > investigated by
> the FBI - you can confirm with Agent Jeff Etters and Agent Brad Rex,
> Miami FBI 305-787-6654.
How did we get the emails?
Post by: Che Gookin on September 06, 2007, 10:04:34 PM
Quote
(File#W505031987)
quick someone count the numbers to make sure there are enough. [/quote]
Post by: Deborah on September 06, 2007, 10:04:52 PM
Post by: Che Gookin on September 06, 2007, 10:08:53 PM
Post by: Sandy on September 06, 2007, 10:36:54 PM
they sure as hell wouldn't be going on TV, internet, newspapers or whatever else and try to keep doing what they are doing!! Not only are they releasing their name that they were too scared to do before but now, whoever didn't know what they look like, certainly does now.
I don't know SS but seems to me either Izzy writes her crap/helps her write it/or just writes, rambles on, for SS along with Rose Moore. How on earth does Izzy or Sue have time to do all this writing if they are so busy "helping" kids????
Post by: Carey on September 06, 2007, 10:50:40 PM
Quote
How did we get the emails?
From the web host. She is now harrasing our web provider in an attempt to get him to take down our sites.
This is how I see it, this is my opinon. Scheff's business is not a buiness located in a commercial setting (physically). It is an office within her home. We obviously can't demonstrate in front of her residence because it is in a residential setting. Therefor, to picket her company based on the fact that we think it is dangerous and harmful to families, the only way to do so is by doing so in front of where she does business....which is on the internet. That is a form of peaceful protest.
Quote
You know psy I hope you ask people before you start throwing their names into your little rants.
What do you mean Waygookin. Where did Psy throw your name in?
Post by: Anonymous on September 06, 2007, 10:51:00 PM
Quote from: ""Carey""
The Planet-EV1 Legal Response Team
> https://www.theplanet.com/index.html?p=legal (https://www.theplanet.com/index.html?p=legal)
> (214)782-7800 :: 1-800-377-6103
> Fax:: (214) 782-7756
>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2007 2:50 PM
> *To:* Legal Response; Legal
> *Cc:* Abuse
> *Subject:* RE: Urgent - Abuse at ThePlanet - Death Threats and more
>
> And another - Read this email from sueschefftruth.com - Death Wish -
> Death Threat? - Please advise. I can't believe ThePlanet would > condone
> this. Everyone is taking this seriously.
>
>
> Author : Michael "Psy" Crawford (IP: 82.123.236.101
>,
> ATuileries-153-1-29-101.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr
>)
> E-mail : http://www.sueschefftruth.com (http://www.sueschefftruth.com)www.sueschefftruth.com/ (http://www.sueschefftruth.com/)>
> Whois : http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl?que ... 23.236.101 (http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl?queryinput=82.123.236.101)
>
> Comment:
>
> Hey BITCH. Why don't you share Joyce Harris's Happy testimonial.
> Howabout the GREENS. You are WORSE than WWASP. At least they don't
> pretend to be righteous. You sicken me more than any human being I > have
> ever known to exist and I hope you get hit by a truck. That was not a
> death threat, that was a curse. A death WISH.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------> --
>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2007 3:34 PM
> *To:* 'Legal Response'
> *Subject:* RE: Urgent - Abuse at ThePlanet - Death Threats and more
>
> Dear Legal Response Team -
>
>
>
> I had forwarded the links in my previous email - attached they are
> copied and pasted into a Word Doc - the Links are within it.
>
>
> With or without the death threats - these websites clearly violate > your
> AUP and TOS since they are created to harass, malign, slander, defame,
> fraud and more. As I have attached previously, I have a Final > Judgment
> against Carey Bock - as well as a full investigation through the FBI
> regarding Michael Crawford who runs sueschefftruth.com.
>
> On your
> http://www.theplanet.com/about_us/legal ... Acceptable (http://www.theplanet.com/about_us/legal_docs/Planet%20Acceptable)%> 20Usage%20Policy%20AUP%20011507%20FINAL.pdf
> AUP
> page 6 it states the violations these websites are in.
>
> If you condone this behavior, I would be shocked - as no reputable > Host
> Server has - and I doubt that you do. I will also let you know that
> reputable websites such as Digg and PR Webwire have banned these
> people. This is Internet Terrorism - and to allow it only promotes > more
> hate and abuse.
>
>
> Please advise me of what steps I need to take next. Again, please > keep
> my emails confidential.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------> --
>
> *From:* Legal Response [mailto:[email protected]]
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2007 3:14 PM
> *Subject:* FW: Urgent - Abuse at ThePlanet - Death Threats and more
>
> Dear Ms. Scheff:
>
>
> Please note that we were unable to locate on the web page
> www.fornits.com (http://www.fornits.com); www.careybock.com (http://www.careybock.com)
>and www.sueschefftruth.com (http://www.sueschefftruth.com)
>any death threat as of 2:13:32 p.m.
> (GMT-6).
>
>
> Legal Response Team
>
> ThePlanet.com
>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2007 9:22 AM
> *To:* Legal; '[email protected] (http://mailto:'[email protected])';
> *Subject:* Urgent - Abuse at ThePlanet - Death Threats and more
>
> **CONFIDENTIAL - NOT TO BE FORWARDED, COPIED OR PASTED OUTSIDE OF
> THEPLANET OFFICES**
>
> **THIS IS EXTREMELY SENSITIVE INFORMATION AND COULD POTENTIALLY PUT MY
> FAMILY AND MYSELF AT DANGER IF RELEASED.**
>
>
> To: The Planet Abuse Dept.
>
>
> Re: Abuse on the the following websites that you host - > **according to
> your AUP** (Prohibited Activities) they are in extreme
> violation: www.fornits.com (http://www.fornits.com)(**Death > threats**,
> defamation, encouraging bodily harm, invasion of privacy and more)
> www.careybock.com (http://www.careybock.com)- used for hate, slander,
> libelous, harassment, **outright fraud**, and more. (See attached > final
> judgment) - www.sueschefftruth.com (http://www.sueschefftruth.com)
> created by **Michael Crawford** (see attached bio) who is being
> investigated by the FBI - and they have the death wish he sent me via
> email - this website is full of malicious content, harassing, > fraudulent
> information - including a lawsuit I never received, links to
> Anti-Semitic postings, and more. I am confident you will agree this
> is purely being used as a "hate" and harassment site. Make note
> that prior landing on the Planet - they were removed from GoDaddy and
> Netfirms.
>
>
>
> If you go to the above listed websites and do a
> search on my name or my business - PURE (Parent's Universal Resource
> Experts, Inc) - you will be apalled at the** threats**,
> defamation, slander, Anti-Semitic postings and more -even listing a
> lawsuit (Green v Focal Point) I have never received to further slander
> me. I have attached the bio of **Michael Crawford** - who is driving
> this obsession of cyber-stalking - he is currently being > investigated by
> the FBI - you can confirm with Agent Jeff Etters and Agent Brad Rex,
> Miami FBI 305-787-6654.
>
>
> Last fall, I won in a **jury trial** a judgment of _$11.3M - $5M of it
> was for punitive damages_ for **Internet Defamation and Invasion of
> Privacy**. The defendants, Ginger Warbis -MCNulty (Fornits) and Carey
> Bock were working in conjunction to literally destroy and ruin me > and my
> business - as well as my children. At one point, someone had > posted my
> daughter was **dead**. Since the law is gray on the responsibility of
> the Host - (Warbis-Fornits), I decided to dismiss her from the lawsuit
> early on and only sue Bock. It was due to financial reasons, the > legal
> cost me over $150K with just the one defendant. I had to second
> mortgage my home and go through my savings to protect my children.
>
>
> At the end - I was fully vindicated - however it only escalated the
> abuse as they now post as anonymous - and want to prove my verdict > means
> nothing to them. I retained Reputation Defender to help me keep their
> horrors off the top of Google - however I have now learned there are
> **death threats** on the website www.fornits.com (http://www.fornits.com)
>(in the forums). Emotionally, I can't go on
> that website, it nearly destroyed to the point I closed my office and
> never left my house. If you go to the website on the forum and do a
> search on my name (Sue Scheff) and PURE (they actually have PURE
> Bullshit as a forum) - I am confident you will have no problem seeing
> this horrific abuse.
>
>
> I was recently featured on 20/20 ABC News earlier this month - and > from
> there - this has escalated.
>
> They are also attacking my colleague, Isabelle Zehnder. **This is
> serious **- and I do hope ThePlanet takes this seriously. Just
> prior signing up for The Planet - they were "**removed**" from GoDaddy
> and Netfirms (in Canada).
>
>
> I have filed a police report with Broward Sherriff's office
> (File#W505031987) in Florida, I have filed a report with Internet > Crimes
> Bureau as well as my local FBI office (listed above). I am hoping
> criminal charges will be brought against these people. My lawyer is
> David Pollack, Miami, FL - 305-372-5900 or email at
> www.suescheff.com (http://www.suescheff.com)This is truly one of the
> worst forms of **Internet Terrorism** I have experienced. I have been
> interviewed by major media outlets - who did their due diligence on > me -
> I am a reputable person being targeted by Internet Terrorist - please
> don't all all them to "use" The Planet as their stomping ground.
>
>
> I look forward to your response and swift attention. I only hope you
> will remove these sites from your Host Server. If you have any > further
> questions or comments, please call me or email me. **Please keep my
> name and email confidential.**
>
>
> Thank you in advance for time and prompt attention.
Post by: Anonymous on September 06, 2007, 10:51:31 PM
Quote from: ""Wandering Waygookin""
You know psy I hope you ask people before you start throwing their names into your little rants.
Classic QFT
:roll:
Post by: Anonymous on September 06, 2007, 11:29:53 PM
Quote
At the end - I was fully vindicated
Yeah that is what OJ said too.
I hope that the web server reads the Documented facts about Ms. Sheff, it seems, like reputation Defender is having a hard tiime trying to whiten her reputation.
I protest against People who are placing children in unregulated unmonitored programs who are allowing abuse and death of children through their stupidity and cheap labor, and their untruthful marketing. ::soapbox::
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 12:23:06 AM
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 01:05:48 AM
Oops - looks like Scheff and Zehnder are still pals.
Hot Damn, glad we got that confirmed by Scheff, herself, considering Izzy ain't talking.
Think this might explain why Zehnder didn't bother to mention Scheff has been sued on CAICA? Or that Focal Point Academy, a PURE referred program has also been named a defendant IN THE SAME LAWSUIT?
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 03:13:32 AM
Quote from: ""Sioux Chef""
QuoteAt the end - I was fully vindicated
Yeah that is what OJ said too.
In the spirit of OJ's creative writing style, here's a book idea. How about a book called "How I Would've Placed Kids In Abusive Programs"
Post by: psy on September 07, 2007, 05:35:28 AM
Quote from: ""Wandering Waygookin""
[/quote]Quote(File#W505031987)
quick someone count the numbers to make sure there are enough.
not surprisingly, it's the same one as last time.
Post by: exhausted on September 07, 2007, 08:02:29 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This is Internet Terrorism - and to allow it only promotes > more
> hate and abuse.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like the programs websites?
____________________________________________________
> **THIS IS EXTREMELY SENSITIVE INFORMATION AND COULD POTENTIALLY PUT MY
> FAMILY AND MYSELF AT DANGER IF RELEASED.**
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like the programs?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
encouraging bodily harm, invasion of privacy and more)
> www.careybock.com (http://www.careybock.com)- used for hate, slander,
> libelous, harassment, **outright fraud**, and more. >
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like the programs?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> cost me over $150K with just the one defendant. I had to second
> mortgage my home and go through my savings to protect my children.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like the programs? Parents spend the same to do what they think is the same
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you go to the website and do a
> search on my name (Sue Scheff) and PURE I am confident you will have no problem seeing
> this horrific abuse.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Couldn't resist editing this down to one sentence :rofl:
Sounds like it's not so pleasant when the shoe is on the other foot! It's okay when all of the above is happening to someone elses family huh?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psy you are one dangerous person, how could you put someone through this trauma? We all know you're capable of this evil you're being 'sued' for :lol:
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 08:39:07 AM
Sue Scheff's states that, "Last fall I won in a jury trial a judgment of $11.3 million....."
Provide The Planet with Carey Bock's documents that she has filed an appeal; and that should settle this part of Scheff's complaint.
Sue Scheff states "there is a listing of a lawsuit (Green vs Focal Point) I have never received....."
Provide The Planet with a copy of the lawsuit complaint, which shows Sue Scheff's name as the first defendant in this lawsuit; and that should settle this part of Scheff's complaint.
Any complaints about BLOGS against Sue Scheff, and words of "defamation" attached Scheff's blog - "Whitmore Academy -My Experience." Then, allow The Planet to determine on their own, why it's acceptable for Scheff to write such a blog; yet deny others this same "right, and freedom of speech?"
Demand that Sue Scheff produce written police reports, verifying the complaints she has made to these law enforcement agencies. Police Departments and the FBI must submit complaints into written form. These officials don't simply carry complaints "around in their minds;" they reduce complaints into written, professional forms.
Sue Scheff's complaint gives the impression that she is locked away in her home with several young "children." The Planet may need to be aware of the ages of her children; and the fact that her daughter is married and lives in another state.
Surely this complaint by Scheff can be countered.
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 09:47:56 AM
Seriously, read the thing for God's sake. Apparently The Planet is the only ISP with balls. The whole of the email is obviously written by a deranged narcissist. FBI investigations that don't exist, police case numbers that can't exist, etc. The Planet, being sane and of testicular fortitude, has probably already quietly added her to the 'nutjob' list.
As should everyone, really.
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 12:02:37 PM
Agent Jeff Etters and Agent Brad Rex,
Miami FBI 305-787-6654: these are the people that Ms. Scheff has been working with in Florida according to previously posted material on this thread. I wonder if it would help for others who have been the recepients of "peaceful protest' fornits-style to share their experiences (not to mention some pretty frightening posts if you happened to have saved them or if they're still on the board) with these agents. Or share them with David Pollack, Ms. Scheff's attorney (305-3725900).
Pattern of behavior and all that.
Yes I know, many here consider the net to be beyond the control of law, but I'm just not sure that this is the case these days.
And I understand the argument that people needn't post here if they don't want to be so treated. But the fact is that many people don't know how they will be treated here until it's too late. After personal info and threats are already posted and left for others to see.
So let's see how this all shakes out, it should at least help clarify limits, something that certain people don't think exist in cyberspace.
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 07, 2007, 12:07:53 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Yes I know, many here consider the net to be beyond the control of law, but I'm just not sure that this is the case these days.
What laws are you suggesting Fornits has broken? Please be specific in your response and cite the posts you feel went over the line.
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 12:22:18 PM
Quote
Very interesting. I am one of many who have been slandered and threatened for posting here... blah, blah, blah
Yeah, like the FBI really wants to hear this whiny crap. I sure as shit hope you piss them off enough. They just might start an investigation... into Florida programs. :lol: Please, please call them! Your demented ramblings about nonexistent threats will surely do more in that than we could.
But other than that, keep your specious legal threats to yourself.
And then go back to your masters at Bain Capital and tell them that fail troll has failed and to do a barrel roll.
Post by: Deborah on September 07, 2007, 12:53:28 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
And I understand the argument that people needn't post here if they don't want to be so treated. But the fact is that many people don't know how they will be treated here until it's too late. After personal info and threats are already posted and left for others to see.
::boohoo::
Until it's too late? Don't play the ignorant card. Personal info is not personal when it's copy and pasted from other sites on the internet.
Perhaps the FBI should receive your posts as well. Hell, why not just send them here to read? I'm sure they'd be entertained.
Post by: Sue-Sue on September 07, 2007, 01:50:26 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 07, 2007, 02:00:36 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 09, 2007, 08:20:37 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Sue Scheff is not Jewish.
Maybe not, but her nose sure is! :rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on September 09, 2007, 08:42:49 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Sue Scheff is not Jewish.Maybe not, but her nose sure is! :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: ::bwahaha:: ::roflmao:: ::bwahaha2:: :wave: :rofl: :nworthy: :tup:
Post by: Anonymous on September 09, 2007, 12:53:13 PM
and if she is jewish, i can go talk to my lubavich freind, and she'll be blacklisted from every reform lubavich-run synagauge in the country.
you cant get "excommunicated", but she can be blocked entry, denied services, and given dirty looks. she'd be lucky to find a rabbi willing to help her for any sort of birth, barmitzvah, death, wedding, etc.
Post by: Anonymous on September 09, 2007, 01:10:21 PM
Post by: Antigen on September 09, 2007, 01:37:06 PM
And that one particular anon above? God, but do I wish I could bust them out! Technically, of course, I could. And the admins all have had a good belly laugh over the particular comment above. Oh, the hypocrisy!
But that's typical of what passes for thinking among the Program faithful.
Post by: Anonymous on September 09, 2007, 05:41:27 PM
I don't think you know what you're playing with here. Or maybe you really believe that you're above law and common decency.
Just like you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater in the real world, there's got to be--and there's going to be--responsibility expected of people in cyber space. In the real world, if a person owns property and lets others live there who are performing criminal acts or who are just a nuisance in terms of police calls, at least in many places, the owner is definitely NOT off the hook. The owner in many juristictions gets fined or the property is closed down or condemned. Or maybe the owner even gets charged with conspiracy with respect to the acts in question, right along with the low-lifes he/she harbored.
Recent anti-terrorism legislation with regard to cyberspace stalking leaves plenty of expansion room to hold people accountable who takes part in actions that harm others using the internet. Anyone who can read should be able to see that.
In my own case, I was naive enough to become a poster in your forum. My crime was that I disagreed with the party line here. As a result I was threatened with death by some lunatic as was my minor child. You were aware of this because I contacted you about it. My name with phone number and address (including google map) were posted here and allowed to remain, in fact posted many times, to be read by other lunatics who frequent the site. Of course, if I had had idea that "anonymous" here doesn't really anonymous, that IP addresses are shared with chosen posters, that posts are altered (ask the WHO), I'd have never had anything to do with your enterprise or the ongoing conspiracy among hte like-minded that exists here.
I am telling you: all it takes is one tragedy, Ginger, either based on the sewage that oozes from your board or even from some other board where the same non-standards of behavior apply.
See how quickly a state or federal conspiracy law is interpreted to apply to YOU and certain posters who think they are so free to say what they like, to lie, to threaten, to slander. See how that plays out in the judicial court or the court of public opinion. And believe me, if that time comes with respect to you, I'll be there with all these terrible posts (which are safely saved), as I believe will others who were similarly treated, to illustrate the kind of entity fornit's is. In the mean time, if there is anything I can do to help Sue Scheff who clearly has been treated much worse than I have, I am so willing to do so.
Anne Hall
Post by: Anonymous on September 09, 2007, 05:53:54 PM
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Post by: Anonymous on September 09, 2007, 06:01:32 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 09, 2007, 06:08:25 PM
* Hate dogs (due to their ability to detect the cybernetic implants of Internet Hate Machines)
* Hate curtains, especially dog curtains. Apparently anonymous really dislikes not being able to see through windows.
* Blow up stadiums apparently
* Blow up yellow vans (repeatedly)
* Rape your mom
* Slit throats
* Corrupt safe LOLS into dangerous LULZ
* Liek cats (especially of the uncorrupted lolcat variety but an ordinary cat is fine too)
* Fuck your sister's ass
Anonymous will target furfags, DevianTART members, 16-year-old girls, your mom, pedophiles and you.
Post by: Anonymous on September 09, 2007, 10:01:07 PM
Post by: psy on September 10, 2007, 12:54:17 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Ginger,
I don't think you know what you're playing with here. Or maybe you really believe that you're above law and common decency.
Just like you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater in the real world, there's got to be--and there's going to be--responsibility expected of people in cyber space. In the real world, if a person owns property and lets others live there who are performing criminal acts or who are just a nuisance in terms of police calls, at least in many places, the owner is definitely NOT off the hook. The owner in many juristictions gets fined or the property is closed down or condemned. Or maybe the owner even gets charged with conspiracy with respect to the acts in question, right along with the low-lifes he/she harbored.
Recent anti-terrorism legislation with regard to cyberspace stalking leaves plenty of expansion room to hold people accountable who takes part in actions that harm others using the internet. Anyone who can read should be able to see that.
In my own case, I was naive enough to become a poster in your forum. My crime was that I disagreed with the party line here. As a result I was threatened with death by some lunatic as was my minor child. You were aware of this because I contacted you about it. My name with phone number and address (including google map) were posted here and allowed to remain, in fact posted many times, to be read by other lunatics who frequent the site. Of course, if I had had idea that "anonymous" here doesn't really anonymous, that IP addresses are shared with chosen posters, that posts are altered (ask the WHO), I'd have never had anything to do with your enterprise or the ongoing conspiracy among hte like-minded that exists here.
I am telling you: all it takes is one tragedy, Ginger, either based on the sewage that oozes from your board or even from some other board where the same non-standards of behavior apply.
See how quickly a state or federal conspiracy law is interpreted to apply to YOU and certain posters who think they are so free to say what they like, to lie, to threaten, to slander. See how that plays out in the judicial court or the court of public opinion. And believe me, if that time comes with respect to you, I'll be there with all these terrible posts (which are safely saved), as I believe will others who were similarly treated, to illustrate the kind of entity fornit's is. In the mean time, if there is anything I can do to help Sue Scheff who clearly has been treated much worse than I have, I am so willing to do so.
Anne Hall
Ok. Normally I am very diplomatic with you, Anne S. Hall, but I'm going to have to say... your name really fits. You must be a complete lunatic to defend Sue Scheff.
I can see the wheels turning in your brain:
- for whatever reason, you were verbally attacked on this forum.
- since sue scheff has been attacked on this board, she must be perfectly innocent. Where is the logic here?
You really don't like Fornits. Why? Because of some personal disagreement, which, considering your recent behavior was probably provoked by you.
Ok. Consider that you've publicly stated that you looked up to Mel Wasserman etc... You really expect a positive reaction. You talk about personal responsibility? Where does YOUR personal responsibility factor into this equation?
You come onto a bulletin board filled with people who very publicly don't like people like you and expect to be received with open arms. Also. Once you were verbally attacked, why didn't you leave. Why do you persist in coming back. It seems like you can handle the Fornits crowd.
They posted personal information? Who is responsible for making the information available in the first place? You are! People are smart. They don't need IP addresses, they can figure identities out based on details of your story, agendas, etc...
You claim that Fornits posters got your IP addresses from this board. That's incorrect. For a very long time Your IP address was publicly viewable on strugglingteens.com It would not be necessary to obtain your IP address from Fornits.
Tell me one case where a poster's IP address has been outed on this board (apart with the exception of moderated forums). Can you prove it? Otherwise what your are writing is libelous (not that it matters when you do it).
Guest postings are VERY anonymous on fornits. There have been times that i've asked people for favors (to look up IP addresses) and each request was denied.
You keep your "bad" posts... let's see what a jury thinks about a woman who approves of child abuse (not that she believes marathon workshops with ritual humiliation and sleep and food deprivation are abusive). Sure thing... Let's see what the local CEDU graduates have to say.
You're a brainwashed program parent who never stopped sucking down the kool-aid, Anne, but ultimately harmless. Foam at the mouth all you want, Fornits isn't going anywhere.
If you want to go to court and defend Sue Scheff, fine by me. Won't help her case a damn bit. (and it will be fun to see you both fuming when you lose)
Post by: psy on September 10, 2007, 01:08:26 AM
Quote from: ""AnonymousNigra""
Can someone summarize who this whining bitch is, and where her dox are so we can take it to the next level? I am not familiar with the situation, I just saw this truly epic lulz.
Anne S. Hall ("an ass hole" if you say it fast enough) is a program parent who approves quite emphatically of using cult brainwashing techinques on children to solve petty problems that could be solved at home. She was a big fan of the CEDU family of schools before they got pwned by lawsuits of abuse etc... (she wanted to start her own school after the place got shut down).
She is allegedly a very crazy woman, and prone to threaten litigation over text on a computer screen. Her behavior is very similar to the "Sue Scheff (http://http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Sue_Scheff)" series of raving-loon-program-parent.
She also gave rave reviews about Landmark Forum (http://http://www.caic.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1243&Itemid=12) (another cult).
If you're looking for Lulz, you should check out Sue Scheff. If you ask me, Sue has far more "Lulz potential"... check this quote out:
Quote
Scheff said she was so embarrassed that she became housebound. "Literally your reputation can be ruined with the stroke of a key", she said. "I could walk away from it, but it's in cyberspace, it's out there.
Post by: psy on September 10, 2007, 01:46:38 AM
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=276282#276282 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=276282#276282)
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 03:36:26 PM
also wat
Post by: psy on September 10, 2007, 03:46:28 PM
Quote from: ""wutwut""
NIGGERS AND JEWS BAD NEWS
also wat
You can troll most forums with statements like that... won't work here.
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2007, 11:11:10 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""AnonymousNigra""Can someone summarize who this whining bitch is, and where her dox are so we can take it to the next level? I am not familiar with the situation, I just saw this truly epic lulz.
Anne S. Hall ("an ass hole" if you say it fast enough) is a program parent who approves quite emphatically of using cult brainwashing techinques on children to solve petty problems that could be solved at home. She was a big fan of the CEDU family of schools before they got pwned by lawsuits of abuse etc... (she wanted to start her own school after the place got shut down).
She is allegedly a very crazy woman, and prone to threaten litigation over text on a computer screen. Her behavior is very similar to the "Sue Scheff (http://http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Sue_Scheff)" series of raving-loon-program-parent.
She also gave rave reviews about Landmark Forum (http://http://www.caic.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1243&Itemid=12) (another cult).
If you're looking for Lulz, you should check out Sue Scheff. If you ask me, Sue has far more "Lulz potential"... check this quote out:QuoteScheff said she was so embarrassed that she became housebound. "Literally your reputation can be ruined with the stroke of a key", she said. "I could walk away from it, but it's in cyberspace, it's out there.
Etc. etc, etc. Believe what you want to, Michael, I've no personal quarrel with you. And I'm sure not going to re-hash a lot of differences of opinion or petty arguments over interpretation of various things at this late date, what would be the point?
It's true that I, and perhaps some others, might think better of you if your method of debate didn't have to involve circa-3rd-grade mockery-games about how a person's name sounds phonetically (ie "an asshole" if you say it fast enough).
But the bottom line is that I believe that some of the things that happen at this site have to stop: if I can do anything to assist in that, I'm going to.
That's just about it,
Anne Hall
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 10, 2007, 11:17:41 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Etc. etc, etc. Believe what you want to, Michael, I've no personal quarrel with you. And I'm sure not going to re-hash a lot of differences of opinion or petty arguments over interpretation of various things at this late date, what would be the point?
It's true that I, and perhaps some others, might think better of you if your method of debate didn't have to involve circa-3rd-grade mockery-games about how a person's name sounds phonetically (ie "an asshole" if you say it fast enough).
But the bottom line is that I believe that some of the things that happen at this site have to stop: if I can do anything to assist in that, I'm going to.
That's just about it,
Anne Hall
Fuck off you psychotic, schizophrenic idiot.
::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: ::both:: ::fuckoff::
Damn woman. Go get laid. Smoke a bowl. Do something.
:roll: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: Che Gookin on September 11, 2007, 12:10:58 AM
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 12:24:21 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""psy""Quote from: ""AnonymousNigra""Can someone summarize who this whining bitch is, and where her dox are so we can take it to the next level? I am not familiar with the situation, I just saw this truly epic lulz.
Anne S. Hall ("an ass hole" if you say it fast enough) is a program parent who approves quite emphatically of using cult brainwashing techinques on children to solve petty problems that could be solved at home. She was a big fan of the CEDU family of schools before they got pwned by lawsuits of abuse etc... (she wanted to start her own school after the place got shut down).
She is allegedly a very crazy woman, and prone to threaten litigation over text on a computer screen. Her behavior is very similar to the "Sue Scheff (http://http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Sue_Scheff)" series of raving-loon-program-parent.
She also gave rave reviews about Landmark Forum (http://http://www.caic.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1243&Itemid=12) (another cult).
If you're looking for Lulz, you should check out Sue Scheff. If you ask me, Sue has far more "Lulz potential"... check this quote out:QuoteScheff said she was so embarrassed that she became housebound. "Literally your reputation can be ruined with the stroke of a key", she said. "I could walk away from it, but it's in cyberspace, it's out there.
Etc. etc, etc. Believe what you want to, Michael, I've no personal quarrel with you. And I'm sure not going to re-hash a lot of differences of opinion or petty arguments over interpretation of various things at this late date, what would be the point?
It's true that I, and perhaps some others, might think better of you if your method of debate didn't have to involve circa-3rd-grade mockery-games about how a person's name sounds phonetically (ie "an asshole" if you say it fast enough).
But the bottom line is that I believe that some of the things that happen at this site have to stop: if I can do anything to assist in that, I'm going to.
That's just about it,
Anne Hall
How about you uh...
Actually try to justify the methods you condone except your selfish desires for getting your way and attachment to nonsensical alt-med quackery?
(also, lol, the authcode for this post was hinged sympathy)
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 12:37:24 AM
Quote from: ""guest""
fixedQuote from: ""psy""beleive what you want michael, but i'm a psychopathic moneyhoarding retard who who likes to beat kids instead of staying in the kitchen where i belong.Quote from: ""AnonymousNigra""Can someone summarize who this whining bitch is, and where her dox are so we can take it to the next level? I am not familiar with the situation, I just saw this truly epic lulz.
Anne S. Hall ("an ass hole" if you say it fast enough) is a program parent who approves quite emphatically of using cult brainwashing techinques on children to solve petty problems that could be solved at home. She was a big fan of the CEDU family of schools before they got pwned by lawsuits of abuse etc... (she wanted to start her own school after the place got shut down).
She is allegedly a very crazy woman, and prone to threaten litigation over text on a computer screen. Her behavior is very similar to the "Sue Scheff (http://http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Sue_Scheff)" series of raving-loon-program-parent.
She also gave rave reviews about Landmark Forum (http://http://www.caic.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1243&Itemid=12) (another cult).
If you're looking for Lulz, you should check out Sue Scheff. If you ask me, Sue has far more "Lulz potential"... check this quote out:QuoteScheff said she was so embarrassed that she became housebound. "Literally your reputation can be ruined with the stroke of a key", she said. "I could walk away from it, but it's in cyberspace, it's out there.
also i am a closet furry i skin 12 stray kittens each week and add them to my fursuit that i work on in my basement
i guarantee it
Anne Hall
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 12:38:45 AM
HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
:roll:
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 12:45:05 AM
keep up the good work anne, you're doing us all a favor. now the parents reading this understand what were all talking about.
good luck, i'll laugh when you fall off your high horse.
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 01:18:50 AM
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 02:50:06 AM
of course fornits doesnt really count in the grand scheme of things. but what it does do is foster communication between survivors, parents, activists, etc. it's a place to put heads together.
but there are instances in which fornits has actually made a very significant dent. take hidden lake for example. we all figured out what to do, some people started making phone calls, some parents started stumbling unto the forum, and before we knew it we had a lawsuit. although it was dropped, we killed their bussiness for a good year, and gave them a heck of a hard time. and now, hla has to be regulated and supervised a little more closely.
or take sue scheff. she may be a small player...but she's just the first of a long line of dominoes. if she didnt think we were a threat she wouldnt have gone after us.
and as far as the jobs thing go....look at it this way: i dont know the exact numbers, but there are alot more institutions now than even 10 years ago. that means alot more kids passing in and out, and alot more kids emotionally scarred and pissed off for life. currently, there are very few program survivors age 35+, unless you count straight or synannon. most natsap/aspen/wasps survivors are in their teens and 20's. at that age, you cant do much. of the age 35+ program survivors, very few went on to become lawyers, politicians, millionares etc. we now have tens of thousands of kids coming out of programs every year. there all pissed off. there are bound to be quite a few who go on to lead successfull lives, and be able to make a difference weather it be finacially, politically, or legally; and instead of a flock they will have an an Army of survivors at their side. i can see massive protests happening in D.C ten years from now, and fornits by then will have evolved into THE hub for the movement.
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 02:58:13 AM
Step back from the problem and view it from bigger picture.
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 03:06:46 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
i think someone is trying to make us give up and loose hope....
:rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 03:11:12 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
currently, there are very few program survivors age 35+, unless you count straight or synannon.
These were large programs in their time weren't they?
Post by: try another castle on September 11, 2007, 03:41:17 AM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""Guest""Etc. etc, etc. Believe what you want to, Michael, I've no personal quarrel with you. And I'm sure not going to re-hash a lot of differences of opinion or petty arguments over interpretation of various things at this late date, what would be the point?
It's true that I, and perhaps some others, might think better of you if your method of debate didn't have to involve circa-3rd-grade mockery-games about how a person's name sounds phonetically (ie "an asshole" if you say it fast enough).
But the bottom line is that I believe that some of the things that happen at this site have to stop: if I can do anything to assist in that, I'm going to.
That's just about it,
Anne Hall
Fuck off you psychotic, schizophrenic idiot.
::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: ::both:: ::fuckoff::
Damn woman. Go get laid. Smoke a bowl. Do something.
:roll: :rofl: :rofl:
Right on! The battle of the Annes!! Wooooooooo hooooo! My money is on the pirate. (BTW Anne, 8 more days.)
Quote from: ""Guest""
currently, there are very few program survivors age 35+, unless you count straight or synannon.
Uhm, *cough* scuze ME... CEDU... Elan... The Seed...
Quote
of the age 35+ program survivors, very few went on to become lawyers, politicians, millionares etc.
I wonder why that is? ::ftard:: (I dunno, Davey...)
It's because WE SUCK!!!!! Woo hooo, two points for sucking!
Actually, I believe I read in the CEDU forum, testimony from a still-programmie who is now a lawyer, (but way after my time, I believe.) He said that his experience in raps has helped him greatly in the courtroom. ::roflmao:: That's one patient motherfuckin' judge.
Although Ginger and I have this discussion going about how many serial killers programs have possibly unleashed.
Because, you know, authorities never catch on to their patterns right away...
Hold on...
"HOW THE FUCK DID YOU FUCKING GET OUT OF THE BASEMENT YOU FUCKING BITCH??"
S'cuse me, I have to go. My dog got loose.
Post by: Che Gookin on September 11, 2007, 07:50:23 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""currently, there are very few program survivors age 35+, unless you count straight or synannon.
These were large programs in their time weren't they?
Forgetting Elan, Hyde, Eckerds, and The Dallas Salesmanship Club are we? During the heyday of straight I'm given to understand their client base ran into the hundreds at any one time. Programmes have been around a great deal longer than most people suspect.
Take the Dallas Salesmanship Club Camp.. founded in the 1940's.
Military schools of all sorts have been operating in this country for the last couple hundred of years.
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 11, 2007, 09:51:18 AM
Quote from: ""try another castle""
Right on! The battle of the Annes!! Wooooooooo hooooo! My money is on the pirate. (BTW Anne, 8 more days.)
8 more days? Which Anne? Was I stoned at the time? I was on the moon at the time.
:rofl: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao::
Post by: Froderik on September 11, 2007, 09:52:28 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
or take sue scheff. she may be a small player...but she's just the first of a long line of dominoes. if she didnt think we were a threat she wouldnt have gone after us.
Good point.. or maybe it was those posts about her red panties that set her off? :lol:
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 11, 2007, 09:53:56 AM
Quote from: ""Wandering Waygookin""
Forgetting Elan, Hyde, Eckerds, and The Dallas Salesmanship Club are we? During the heyday of straight I'm given to understand their client base ran into the hundreds at any one time. Programmes have been around a great deal longer than most people suspect.
Take the Dallas Salesmanship Club Camp.. founded in the 1940's.
Military schools of all sorts have been operating in this country for the last couple hundred of years.
I was in Straight from summer 82 thru summer 84 (23 months to be precise). When I first went in there were about 300 -350 kids. It was a friggin' nightmare. Even after Cincy and VA split off there were 175 - 200 or more during the entire time I was there. I don't ever remember 'group' being small.
Post by: hanzomon4 on September 11, 2007, 09:54:44 AM
Quote from: ""Wandering Waygookin""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""currently, there are very few program survivors age 35+, unless you count straight or synannon.
These were large programs in their time weren't they?
Forgetting Elan, Hyde, Eckerds, and The Dallas Salesmanship Club are we? During the heyday of straight I'm given to understand their client base ran into the hundreds at any one time. Programmes have been around a great deal longer than most people suspect.
Take the Dallas Salesmanship Club Camp.. founded in the 1940's.
Military schools of all sorts have been operating in this country for the last couple hundred of years.
Don't forget about the religious programs like the Roloff homes and it's many spinoffs and Provo Canyon School which has been operating for decades.
Post by: Froderik on September 11, 2007, 09:57:52 AM
Quote from: ""try another castle""
Although Ginger and I have this discussion going about how many serial killers programs have possibly unleashed.
Because, you know, authorities never catch on to their patterns right away...
Hold on...
"HOW THE FUCK DID YOU FUCKING GET OUT OF THE BASEMENT YOU FUCKING BITCH??"
S'cuse me, I have to go. My dog got loose.
:rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 10:44:49 AM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""Wandering Waygookin""
Forgetting Elan, Hyde, Eckerds, and The Dallas Salesmanship Club are we? During the heyday of straight I'm given to understand their client base ran into the hundreds at any one time. Programmes have been around a great deal longer than most people suspect.
Take the Dallas Salesmanship Club Camp.. founded in the 1940's.
Military schools of all sorts have been operating in this country for the last couple hundred of years.
I was in Straight from summer 82 thru summer 84 (23 months to be precise). When I first went in there were about 300 -350 kids. It was a friggin' nightmare. Even after Cincy and VA split off there were 175 - 200 or more during the entire time I was there. I don't ever remember 'group' being small.
I was born in 83 , and end up in program sixteen years later also with around 300 kids. Not a lot changes aparently...
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 12:16:11 PM
but the total number of atendees pales in comparison the current nationwide TBS/RTC population. instead of a few thousand people, were going to have millions. essentially an entire generation has been affected.
as an example, the high school i went to before the program, there were 129 other freshmen. by the senior year, that was wittled down to 40. of the 89 kids who left or got kicked out, about 50 ended up in programs.
and thats just one high school
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 02:13:11 PM
Post by: Deborah on September 11, 2007, 02:47:20 PM
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=268901#268901 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=268901#268901)
"Treatment Magazine": Addiction Industry News.....
http://www.treatmentmagazine.com/about/ (http://www.treatmentmagazine.com/about/)
Although a sub-sector of the healthcare industry, addiction treatment has its own distinct economics. With 14,000 treatment centers, an estimated $18 billion in annual revenues and 200,000 employees, Treatment Magazine made a bet that the addiction treatment industry�s was willing to support an independent trade journal.
Founded in 2004, Treatment Magazine published quarterly in 2005. Due to strong demand from advertisers and the outstanding positive response to the publication�s launch from industry readers, Treatment Magazine went monthly in 2006.
Treatment Magazine has emerged as by far the most widely read publication in the addiction treatment industry, reaching 20,000 key decision makers every month. ~~
In regards to the TT Industry specifically, quoted from the article below:
Growth has been phenomenal. Reports estimate that the number of youths attending these types of schools and programs have quadrupled over the last decade to 100,000 last year, with annual therapeutic school revenues now estimated to be in the area of $1 billion. And expansion is expected to be strong for the foreseeable future, with Aspen Education Group CEO Elliot Sainer forecasting growth for his company at 20 percent annually for the next several years. �We have gone from just 6 schools and programs in 1998 to 34 currently,� says Sainer, adding that revenues this year are expected to climb to $150 million, up from $28 million in the same period.
Adolescent Treatment Resurgent
Therapeutic Boarding Schools Boom, Private Centers Are Expanding Again and Court Referrals Soar
By John Worley
In the late 1990s, the family that owned diversified medical and behavioral health services provider College Health Enterprises made a fateful move, resolving that they would sell the youth division of the company. Hindsight is golden, but maybe they would have decided differently had they known that the unit, now known as Aspen Education Group, would become one of nation�s largest and fastest growing private providers of therapeutic services to the country�s growing ranks of troubled teens.
Certainly, Aspen�s investors -Frazier Healthcare Ventures and Sprout Group in 1998 and then Warburg Pincus in 2002- have hit a major home run, being early movers into the now booming marketplace for therapeutic boarding schools and programs.
Boulder Creek Academy, Idaho
Growth has been phenomenal. Reports estimate that the number of youths attending these types of schools and programs have quadrupled over the last decade to 100,000 last year, with annual therapeutic school revenues now estimated to be in the area of $1 billion. And expansion is expected to be strong for the foreseeable future, with Aspen Education Group CEO Elliot Sainer forecasting growth for his company at 20 percent annually for the next several years. �We have gone from just 6 schools and programs in 1998 to 34 currently,� says Sainer, adding that revenues this year are expected to climb to $150 million, up from $28 million in the same period.
And while Aspen�s facilities treat youth with a wide range of psychiatric and behavioral health afflictions, Aspen says that more than any other problem, addiction is the thread that runs through it all. �Most of our kids have dealt with substance abuse at one point in their lives,� says Dr David Sack, senior vice president and medical director at Aspen. �But, as is the case generally with adolescents, the diagnoses are often multi-layered.�
And the very rapid growth of companies like Aspen, as well as other big players like Huntsville, AL-based Three Springs, has caught the interest of very large behavioral health providers like Universal Health Services. UHS, which has a strong profile in addiction treatment through its ownership of premier facilities like Atlanta�s Talbott Recovery Campus, has recently stepped up its presence substantially in the therapeutic schools and programs marketplace. Already a player through its purchase of one of the oldest therapeutic schools in the nation, Provo Canyon School in Utah - which was acquired as part of a $105 million purchase of 12 facilities from bankrupt Charter Behavioral Health Systems in 2001 - UHS paid $13.5 million last year to pick up three schools in the Northwest an one in Vermont from venerable CEDU.
With a history that stretches back to the 1960s, CEDU ran six therapeutic schools and is often credited with founding the private therapeutic schools industry. It appears that UHS may have gotten itself a bargain, buying the CEDU schools in a bankruptcy auction of the assets of The Brown Schools. The Brown Schools, whose own history in publicly funded adolescent treatment dated back to the 1940s, bought CEDU in 1998 for $78 million, a very high price that the company said ultimately contributed to its bankruptcy. Also contributing to the bankruptcy, perhaps even more than overpaying for CEDU, were legal costs and a series of settlements from lawsuits alleging abuse and neglect at Brown facilities. The lawsuits, as well as complaints from parents whose children�s tuition was lost as result of the bankruptcy filings, left a somewhat of a black eye on the reputation of the therapeutic schools industry.
Unlike for adolescent centers operated by some of the leading providers of more traditional style adolescent treatment like Caron, Hazelden and Rosecrance, only some states license the schools and accrediting entities like JCAHO and CARP rarely monitor quality standards, although therapeutic schools are taking vigorous action to regulate themselves. �The vast majority of my time is spent working to help our members adhere to the highest quality and ethics standards that are laid out in our guidelines,� says Jan Moss, executive director of the National Association of Therapeutic Schools and Programs, NATSAP, which was founded in 1999 with just six programs and now counts 166 programs as members.
There is no doubt that the booming popularity of boarding school and wilderness program formats, which has also attracted a slew of small entrepreneurial players like Peter Boeschenstein of Gray Wolf Ranch in Washington state, has meant that there has been relatively little growth left over for providers of traditional adolescent treatment. And the advent of managed care, like with adult programs, has also put a dent in the growth of adolescent programs at more traditional treatment providers, according to Albert Senella, COO at Southern California-based Tarzana Treatment Centers, which runs a substantial adolescent substance abuse treatment operation. Indeed, SAMHSA data tend to validate the conclusion that private providers of traditional style adolescent substance abuse treatment have been basically treading water since managed care reared its ugly head in the early 1990s. From 1992 to 2002, adolescent referrals from sources that tend to refer to private centers - schools, healthcare providers and self-referrals - declined substantially to 38 percent of overall adolescent treatment referrals from 50 percent. �My understanding also is that the managed care crisis hit the adolescent side particularly hard,� said Hazelden CEO Ellen Breyer, agreeing with Senella.
But Breyer points out that the lack of capacity expansion at traditional centers in recent years has left a market gap that needs to be filled. �We now have substantial waiting lists at our youth center [in Plymouth, MN] and wherever we refer out to there also tends to be waiting list.� Seeing the need, last year Hazelden�s board approved a plan to open a facility for adolescents in the Northeast, upon which management is making substantial progress. And another major non-profit provider of adolescent services, the Caron Foundation, is in the midst of negotiations to set up a 40-bed youth facility in Atlanta at a former treatment center.
And while managed care and competition from boarding school and wilderness program formats have put a crimp in the growth of the private side of the adolescent treatment business, aggregate admissions for adolescents have been skyrocketing in recent years. In fact, according to SAMHSA, the total number of annual adolescent treatment admissions soared by 65 percent between 1992 and 2002 to 156,000, almost triple the rate of increase in overall treatment admissions during the period. Referral data from SAMHSA show that virtually all the huge increase comes from referrals from the justice system, which by 2002 accounted for 54 percent of all adolescent treatment referrals, up from just 40 percent ten years earlier. As the vast majority of criminal justice referrals tend to flow to publicly funded treatment centers - the largest by far sector of the treatment business that relies on Medcaid, state block grants and other federal funding for its revenues - the big increase in referrals from courts has likely put a strain on overburdened public systems.
Probably the nation�s largest provider of treatment services to adolescents, Phoenix House has seen a big increase in referrals from the justice system, according to COO Kevin McEneaney. And while Phoenix House offers a broad array of adolescent addiction treatment services, its youth mainstay is the Phoenix Academy, 10 of which are scattered around the country in places like New York, Los Angeles and Dallas. With a total of about 700 beds nationwide, the Phoenix Academies employ a format for adolescents that, ironically, is very similar to the therapeutic boarding school model that has become so popular recently in the private-pay marketplace. With five new academies built in the last five years, and a another new academy planned for Tampa, FL, in the near future, Phoenix Academies employ a therapeutic community style rehabilitation model. �The individual attending Phoenix Academy is living in a hybrid environment in which he is being schooled while also going to treatment,� says McEneaney, adding that there is a very strong emphasis on promoting participation in self-help groups like Alcoholics Anonymous. �We aim to change their value system through their attendance at the academy and by working with the families,� he said.
With the Phoenix Academies there is a very high commitment to a long-term level of care, which costs on average about $37,000 a year, according to McEneaney, who points out that a Rand Corporation study of the Los Angeles academy found the Phoenix House approach to be highly effective. �You also have to compare the cost to a juvenile detention center - where most of our youth are heading if they don�t come here - which is about $80,000 a year,� he said. In fact so effective has the model of integrating adolescent treatment with schooling been, that Phoenix House is in the process of expanding the concept to include day schooling, allying itself with school districts that desperately need help handling teens with behavior and addiction problems. �The thing with schools is that there is this tremendous need,� said McEneaney. �By law they have to provide schooling to these youths, who often end up in schools that have little more than computers for teachers. What we are offering is an alternative for school systems that don�t know how to handle addicted teens.� So far, there are three day schools on the model that Phoenix House is promoting, two in New York and one in Texas.
And Phoenix House is not alone in attempting to integrate treatment and recovery into the teen schooling experience. Last year, Indianapolis based Fairbanks Hospital received approval from city authorities to open a recovery high school. JW ~~
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 02:55:08 PM
Quote
competition from boarding school and wilderness program formats have put a crimp in the growth of the private side of the adolescent treatment business
You sure we're talking about the same thing here Deb?
Post by: Deborah on September 11, 2007, 03:20:44 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quotecompetition from boarding school and wilderness program formats have put a crimp in the growth of the private side of the adolescent treatment business
You sure we're talking about the same thing here Deb?
He's distinguishing "traditional style adolescent treatment like Caron, Hazelden and Rosecrance" from TBSs and Wilderness.
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 03:24:40 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Previous post must either be a joke or a troll or WHERE THE FUCK DO YOU LIVE?!
a big city with lots of spoiled rich kids with more money than sense
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 04:36:57 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 07:36:24 PM
Her habit of mass letter writing is still going strong. :-)
Too bad the facts are inaccurate. It appears she doent make the connection as to why people dont like her. She lies.She places kids in boardign schools and theen defends the anuse against them.
How could she NOT know a law suit has been filed and she is named as a defendant? Is that possible?
The son was in Military school and the daughter was out of town at the time, how could they been targets? I dont remeber that at all.
It appears she has finally lost it.
This could be a perfect example of "what goes around comes back around"
Heaven help you babe.
Post by: try another castle on September 11, 2007, 07:58:10 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""try another castle""
Right on! The battle of the Annes!! Wooooooooo hooooo! My money is on the pirate. (BTW Anne, 8 more days.)
8 more days? Which Anne? Was I stoned at the time? I was on the moon at the time.
:rofl: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao::
Talk like a pirate day (http://http://talklikeapirateday.com/wordpress/) of course, silly!
You are a pirate, aren't you?
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 11, 2007, 09:18:14 PM
Quote from: ""try another castle""
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""Quote from: ""try another castle""
Right on! The battle of the Annes!! Wooooooooo hooooo! My money is on the pirate. (BTW Anne, 8 more days.)
8 more days? Which Anne? Was I stoned at the time? I was on the moon at the time.
:rofl: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao::
Talk like a pirate day (http://http://talklikeapirateday.com/wordpress/) of course, silly!
You are a pirate, aren't you?
::roflmao::
Oh shit, that's right! I got a lot going on right now, I forgot. How could I. Alright, back on track.
Arrrgghh.
Practicing.
Here guys. This one's for you.
(OK, that was supposed to be a pirate, but I couldn't find a painted lady pirate. Fairy was the closest. and it was supposed to be bigger. )
(http://[url=http://family.webshots.com/photo/1213859549051631093Ybmlbf][img]http://thumb13.webshots.net/s/thumb1/5/95/49/213859549Ybmlbf_th.jpg)[/url][/img]
Post by: hanzomon4 on September 12, 2007, 12:40:18 AM
Who ever it is :nworthy:
Post by: Antigen on September 12, 2007, 12:03:01 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Ginger,
I don't think you know what you're playing with here. Or maybe you really believe that you're above law and common decency.
Just like you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater in the real world, ...
Unless there actually is a fire.
Post by: Antigen on September 12, 2007, 12:11:23 PM
Quote from: ""Nigranigrosis""
There are not enough Mudkips in these forums. We demand our Mudkips or we will taunt you a second teim!!!!!!!!!!
Psy, do you think the fornit might be a little more appealing if he were a cheerful purpley color instead of green?
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 12, 2007, 12:18:05 PM
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
:o :o Is that you?
No, hardly.
:rofl:
Quote
Who ever it is :nworthy:
That's why I picked her. Especially for the guys.
Ain't I thoughtful?
::seg::
Post by: Antigen on September 12, 2007, 01:40:03 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
and as far as the jobs thing go....look at it this way: i dont know the exact numbers, but there are alot more institutions now than even 10 years ago. that means alot more kids passing in and out, and alot more kids emotionally scarred and pissed off for life. currently, there are very few program survivors age 35+, unless you count straight or synannon. most natsap/aspen/wasps survivors are in their teens and 20's. at that age, you cant do much. of the age 35+ program survivors, very few went on to become lawyers, politicians, millionares etc. we now have tens of thousands of kids coming out of programs every year. there all pissed off. there are bound to be quite a few who go on to lead successfull lives, and be able to make a difference weather it be finacially, politically, or legally; and instead of a flock they will have an an Army of survivors at their side. i can see massive protests happening in D.C ten years from now, and fornits by then will have evolved into THE hub for the movement.
I don't know that Fornits, or any other one site, can remain a hub of something that is, by definition, an ad hoc, ever shifting distributed network. That's cool with me! Lord, but it will be nice when more sites like this emerge and we're not wearing such a huge target on our backs!*
I think we fit right into the this poor bastard (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22280). Jump on in, the water's fine!]
Post by: psy on September 12, 2007, 02:57:51 PM
Quote from: ""Scarlett Chiclet""
Quote from: ""Nigranigrosis""There are not enough Mudkips in these forums. We demand our Mudkips or we will taunt you a second teim!!!!!!!!!!
Psy, do you think the fornit might be a little more appealing if he were a cheerful purpley color instead of green?
Good idea! Although I think the mudkips would be upset if we added fins.
Post by: Antigen on September 12, 2007, 03:52:58 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Good idea! Although I think the mudkips would be upset if we added fins.
Ok, well fornits don't need fins. But I really like the pudgy little hands and big happy frog smile.
Post by: 3xsaSeedling on September 12, 2007, 04:59:57 PM
Post by: try another castle on September 14, 2007, 06:41:00 AM
(http://http://encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/7/70/Mudkipchan1.jpg/83px-Mudkipchan1.jpg)
Despite the fact that she is the cause of major lulz. Or maybe because of... I haven't decided yet.
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2007, 11:14:59 AM
Quote from: ""Scarlett Chiclet""
been at this now for almost 8 years now and still have not been struck by light ning like this poor bastard.
LMAO after clicking on that link! Sometimes there is justice in the world and sometimes people really do get struck down by a bolt of lightning!
Hey, doesn't our favorite ed con also live in Florida? Hmmm...
Post by: 3xsaSeedling on September 14, 2007, 06:05:44 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Scarlett Chiclet""been at this now for almost 8 years now and still have not been struck by light ning like this poor bastard.
LMAO after clicking on that link! Sometimes there is justice in the world and sometimes people really do get struck down by a bolt of lightning!
Hey, doesn't our favorite ed con also live in Florida? Hmmm...
That's the stuff that makes me a 'non-believer'. Barker and Sembler and Scheff haven't been 'lit-up' YET...
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2007, 06:19:57 PM