Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Aspen Education Group => Topic started by: Anonymous on November 01, 2005, 03:28:00 PM
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Was visiting with a friend from NC. As it turns out, there are a couple of programs in her backyard and she knows decent people who have worked in them.
One of these people told her that Stone Mountain was 'different'. Not a lock down- can't stop the kid from leaving, no food deprivation, no abuse... you know the drill.
Anyone have direct experience? Would be interested in details about this specific program. Their website certainly contains all the buzz words, methods, policies and procedures inherent to most programs in the industry.
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I have a good friend who used to work at Stone Mtn.
She smokes up, is hip, Can't imagine it being too bad.
If you are willing to identify yourself as realitively safe and sane I could put you in touch with her.
Are you in the Asheville area?
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Isn't Stone Mountain the one where they live in very primitive cabins, chop their own wood, study, and do a lot of outdoor things?
Here are my concerns:
1. Forget the website. It looks like summer camp. I want to know:
-what is the average turnover of staff?
-what qualifications and certifications do staff have?
-what is the minimum qualficiaion & certification you must have to get a job there?
-what is their treatment plan? do the work on a basis of positive reinforcement and cooperation or another system of demerits and penalities?
-is a parent welcome to visit at any time, even without prior notice?
-what is the average length of stay for a student?
If anyone knows, I would appreciate it. It has been recommeded to me. Apparently they have a very small student body and it is all boys.
:wave:
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My friend Anthony is in Stone Mountain, says he loves it
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I have heard a little about stone mountain i do not beileve you can just go and visit it is very intensive treatment overall i think it is a case to case basis what is your child struggling with?
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I was hoping there would be more recent and detailed info here about Stone Mountain School. We are currently in the process of deciding whether or not to send our son there. I felt confident about sending him until I read all the research on "therapeutic boarding schools" and the troubled teen industry. Now I'm wondering if we aren't sending him into a lion's den. He's not a "bad" kid. He has learning deficits and some behavioral problems that make it hard fopr him to attend regular public school and the private schools won't take him because of the LD. Is this school legit or just another high-priced teen-abuse factory?
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Howdy, I went to Straight and am still surviving it.
My housemates both work at Stone Mtn. school.
One is in Central America now, the other is still asleep, but I will ask her to post here.
I am sure she would be happy to talk to you.
I can't speak about the school itself, but it sounds very different from Straight.
I can say that my housemates are some of the most compassionate people you could hope to meet.
Feel free to Private Message me if you like.
I can't PM because I'm not a registered user but I would like very much if one or both of your housemates could post a reply here. I would assume anything they may have to comment on would be suitable for this forum.
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Hi!
I've been working at stone mountain school since January, I'm the roommate that was asleep. The other one, should be getting back from his trip today actually, and he's worked there for 6 years.
I really like working at stone mountain, nothing about it is punitive, any consequences a student experiences are naturally related to their actions, under their control. Staff never puts their hands on a student unless he is being physically unsafe to himself or others and then all of the "restraining holds", are in no way harmful, and all staff are trainned in these holds. Having to restrain a student almost never happens, even if say, the boy is walking off campus, staff will just walk beside him and talk to him. Students are never refused food no matter what their behavior is.
I work with the youngest age group, age 11-14, most of these boys have ADHD and didn't get along with their families, had trouble in school, ect. Right now there's 6 boys in my group, there's 4 staff per group, 2 the first part of the week, then the other 2 come in for the second shift.
Each group has a cabin in the woods, everybody has chores like- chop wood, clean the outside latrine, sweep the cabin, clean the kitchen shelter, ect.
Is there anything specific you want to know? You can email my personal email address, or we could talk if you want.
You asked about visiting without planning it, and i don't think they would refuse you, but there's more of a chance for you to get more out of a visit if they knew you were coming. this definitly isn't a school where reality is covered up when parents visit.
i believe you can also ask to contact the parents of students who went there or are still going there. i would also ask the school to send you copies of the "level sheets" the STUDENTS get, since that's the central structure of the whole program as well as a STAFF manual, because that explains all staff procedures. And if you do visit, I would figure out which group (it's all by age) your son would be in and talk to that groups senior counsler, as well as talk to the counslers that are on shift for that group. I am always surprised at how few parents actually try to get to know that staff that work with their kids 24/7.
Much of the school's program is based upon William Glasser's (he's written a couple books, check them out) reality therapy of individual choice and responsibility.
Even though the system and structure really make sense and is therapeutic, the counslers are the ones that implement it into the students daily lives. You asked about the turn over rate for the staff, and I'd say about 1/2 last around 6 months. it is a very challenging job, and after working there for 6 months, i am just now starting to feel very confident and can work a shift without coming home totally exhuasted. The pay isn't "great", I made more money doing trail work for the forest service, But this job is so fullfilling, I love working with kids, being outside and I get 1/2 the week off. (counslers stay 3 or 4 days and nights a week). So i'd say anyone who stays with this job for longer than 6 months is doing it because they truly love it. It tries you and if you're heart's not in it, you don't make it. So I definitly encourage you to meet with the field staff. And as for credentals of the staff, before I worked there, I'd only worked with kids in volunteer settings, but I've spent a lot of time working outside in various situations. I'm 22 and haven't gone to college yet, but am looking to go within the next 2 years, I love learning, but i just wasn't ready right after high school. Anyway, the hiring process is very long, they do a complete background check, drug testing, check up on all your references, 48 hours interview- where you come and stay with a group and then have a interview with an administration staff. So they look at a lot of different aspects of a person when they interview them, I didn't have paid/ professional experience working with kids and hadn't gone to college yet, but I know that I'm compassionate and good with kids and that's really what matters.
I'd love to talk more or answer any other questions you might have! Good luck!
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So.. lets see if I have this right...
Ill paid untrained young staffers have not even gone to college, but that doesnt matter becasue they " know they are are good person"(sic)?
Same young staffers do drugs in off hours?
There's turnover of 1/2 the staff in 6 months?
Philosophy of the shcool based on sopmeone's crackpot theories?
That sound ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING place to put your kid. Though this staffer sounds sweet ,albiet naive, reading between the lines,Aspen sounds like trouble waiting to happen... DONT SEND YOUR KID!
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Actually just saying, William Glassers therories are studied by mainstream educators & psychologists, particularly when looking at @ risk kids.
I agree with you though that 6 months of employemnt is an alarmingly high turnover & if dossier is typical of programme staff then it is distrubing that they employ underpaid and underqualified kids.
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I'm going to be a pain in the butt so please forgive me but....
I agree with you though that 6 months of employemnt is an alarmingly high turnover & if dossier is typical of programme staff then it is distrubing that they employ underpaid and underqualified kids.
Nationwide teacher turnover rate is 50% in the first 5 years, 10% each year. Does that mean we should stop having teachers due to high turn over rate? I can tell you part of the reason on a high turn over is being overworked and underpaid.
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Teacher turnover MAY be because they are overworked and underpaid; but they ARE QUALIFIED.
This employee admits he/she has no college, and very little training.
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no of course not. This atttrition rate would really need to be adressed though because it is pretty high. In a school that proclaims to adress the needs of troubled kids this is an issue because the school itself claims to provide structure but a kid only has a primary care giver for 6 months at a maximum then the school is failing to meet this goal.
Perhaps pay is also an issue. i would imagine that if you paid more you could afford highly trained professionals and not idealistic kids who should be helping to run summer camps until they have a qualification.
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I'm going to be a pain in the butt so please forgive me but....
I agree with you though that 6 months of employemnt is an alarmingly high turnover & if dossier is typical of programme staff then it is distrubing that they employ underpaid and underqualified kids.
Nationwide teacher turnover rate is 50% in the first 5 years, 10% each year. Does that mean we should stop having teachers due to high turn over rate? I can tell you part of the reason on a high turn over is being overworked and underpaid.
So...let me do the math for you. These "counselors" are TWELVE TIMES more likely to leave than a teacher. That's BAD.
Also, your analogy is completely faulty because continuity of teachers in a kid's life is wholly less important than continuity of caregivers.
This argument is a non-starter.
This place sounds like more of the same: uneducated, unlicensed staff working with kids who really need a good therapist and special education. There are "levels" and "consequences." This is just more of the same ol' same ol'...
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So...let me do the math for you. These "counselors" are TWELVE TIMES more likely to leave than a teacher. That's BAD.
Thank you for doing the math for a math teacher :D
I know little about these programs but I can tell you one thing, it is very very difficult to find a good therapist let alone a good special education teacher. I have worked with special educaiton teachers who are "qualified" that I would never leave alone with students and I have meet people "unqualified" who would make awesome behavioral special education teachers. Education is important, but it cannot replace a God given talent.
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qualification can be combined with "god given talent" though. How can it not be a red flag that a facility which deals with troubled children will hire young people who may well be dedicated & genuinely passionate about what they are trying to do but who have no qualifications in the area, are not well paid (according to the young staffer who posted) and who understandably become burnt out after six months.
How does this not sound like a recepie for potential trouble?
Also given what parents are paying, why would a school committed to putting the kids first not feel an ethical obligation to provide immediate care staff who had some credentials in the area as well as just passion.
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qualification can be combined with "god given talent" though. How can it not be a red flag that a facility which deals with troubled children will hire young people who may well be dedicated & genuinely passionate about what they are trying to do but who have no qualifications in the area, are not well paid (according to the young staffer who posted) and who understandably become burnt out after six months.
How does this not sound like a recepie for potential trouble?
Also given what parents are paying, why would a school committed to putting the kids first not feel an ethical obligation to provide immediate care staff who had some credentials in the area as well as just passion.
Please don't think I am arguing with you.
The person I am thinking of who is not qualified but is awesome with "at-risk" students is not qualified because getting qualification is not as easy as one might think. Many places require an EMT or WFR which takes time and money to obtain, something most young adults don't have a lot of. To become a Special-Ed B(behavioral) requires additional one to two years of schooling on top of the 5 years it already takes to become a teacher - which once again is time and money. As for underpaid, anyone who works with kids, particularly "at-risk" kids is always underpaid - it's the industry and nothing more. And if you spent a lot of time with "at-risk" kids like these people do day in and day out you would realize why the turn over rate is so high. They wear you out physically and emotionally and it's hard to be on top of your game 24-7 to keep up with whatever surprise might come up.
I realize there are red flags, but I also realize nothing is prefect either. I am not saying one way or another if I would send my child there, if I had one. But realize there may be a logically reason to why AEG hires who they do, instead of just picking random people to fill up the spots. (and no I don't work for them, promise!)
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Sure fair point. & i recognise it is not easy to get a specialist qualification and that work in the human services is often not as well paid as in other professions. However, i dont think anywhere worth it's salt would make the majority of it's ground level staff minimum wage kids who are naturally going to become burnt out, particularly with such minimal training. These kids should be working in summer camps & programmes should be hiring fully trained experts.
One thing that dossier mentioned that was a big red flag for me was that in the case of stone mountain they encourage parents to pop in & see their kids but few parents do. This suggests to me that for all of the tough talk about it being a difficult decision a lot of parents are in fact warehousing their kids at this place & others.
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Just an FYI here, when someone calls something a red flag it means that it's a show-stopper. Soccer refs don't give red cards to players they want still in the game, racetrack authorities don't fly the red flag when they want the racers to keep racing, and even very slightly sane human beings do not leave kids in programs once the red flags start becoming visible.
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I am glad I could provide some entertainment for some of you. Here are a few thoughts?.
So instead of filling the needs of troubled children with qualified staff who are trained in their fields you suggest that this positions be filled with people who have no formal training in these matters?
Not exactly, in an ideal world the people hired should be fully qualified. Unfortunately this isn?t an ideal world, so the best candidate available will have to do. I believe that is the same approach taken in public education as well and you all have pretty much stated you don?t want to get rid of public schools. Not all teachers in public schools are qualified ? though I agree they should be.
The explanation for this being I have no formal training in the vateriety of special needs that exist in the student population. How in the world does a person who depends on showmanship know how to approach a class that has autistic children, dyslexix (I think??) children, bipolar kids, add ad hd kids, and just about every other sort of disposition that strikes a pshrinks fancy? The point being that each of these situations demands a different approach and understanding to the situation.
I?m a fully licensed middle school math teacher and have taught in classrooms where over 75% of the students have some ?special needs?. The only ?training? I got to deal with these kids in my 5 years of college education ? ask the special education teacher. Seriously, that?s all they taught us in our diversity class and I went to one of the best education schools in the nation! The only people I know who have any formal training to deal with these ?special needs? are doctoral psychologist and special education teachers both of which are pretty much busy filling out paperwork thanks to No Child Left Behind. I agree more training needs to be available but until the nation as a whole has a different outlook on these kids that isn?t going to happen.
I believe what you wrote about your experiences and I am not going to make excuses for them, but case studies usually include a lot more information than just a one person perspective. If they included more of the child?s medical/mental background, parent report, etc they would be a lot more valid arguments.
They hire WFR and WEMT because they are cheaper than nurses and other competent medical staff. They hire these people because the amount of time it takes to get a WFR is 2 weeks and roughly 800 dollars. Most kids get the training through the company.
FYI ? that more than what is required in some states (California for example) to become a licensed teacher!
Don't make the mistake of attributing any humanitarian principles to AEG because in the end it is all about making a profit. Nothing more nothing less.
Welcome to corporate America ? this is how our country works. Last time I check the long standing belief is if you have a problem with it you can always move to a socialist country like Sweden.
:D
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Welcome to corporate America ? this is how our country works. Last time I check the long standing belief is if you have a problem with it you can always move to a socialist country like Sweden.
This is an idiotic statement. "If you don't love it, leave it," or "My country right or wrong" are the same lame-duck argument as yours.
This is America, where if the people aren't happy with it they can voice their opinion and exercise their rights at the voting booth. Good citizens do something about it when we as a country fail to live up to our promise. Loyalists not patriots say things like "If you don't love it, leave it," or "My country right or wrong."
The rest of your post is even weaker than that trash. You really do know nothing about the subject matter. It's probably a good thing that you're a math teacher because your reasoning skills are pretty poor.
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If you are right that the best candidate who applied is not hired, then I totally agree with you that in the least AEG?s hiring practices should be investigated (a simple phone call to the EEOC would make this happen quickly). I can honestly say I have no clue anything about their hiring practices and therefore cannot pass any judgment.
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Welcome to corporate America ? this is how our country works. Last time I check the long standing belief is if you have a problem with it you can always move to a socialist country like Sweden.
This is America, where if the people aren't happy with it they can voice their opinion and exercise their rights at the voting booth. .
You're kidding, right? Free market fundamentalism inevitably hinders democracy... haven't you read the news as of late? the dispraportianate influence of corporate interest on domestic and foreign policy coupled with our irrational fears of socialist policy as a nation does not equal 'good citizens taking a stand -----> real respect for the eco./social rights of adults, much less youth! give me a break.
voting booth? lol- wow, denial?? wtf? did you read about Florida? Ohio?
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oh, and such things as waving the inhertiance tax, something to that effect... we're not a substantially democratic nation, we're a capitalist nation with a formal democracy.
People can speak all they want, but so long as people think the status quo is in their best interest, or the best we're ever going to get because 'we' haven't seen better
taxing the poor, tax breaks for the rich, so-called trickle down.. philanthropy is the best we got absent effective social policy, resdist. of wealth by the govt. So, obviously we have a structural conflict of interest that MAY hinder or MAY improve conditions for those not in positions of power. Personally, that roll of the dice does not a democracy make.
Not sure how this whole freedom concept go twisted into freedom for certain people, the wealthy or those in the position of power (w resources) last time I checked democracy was a lil' bit more all encompassing than that and not exclusionary.
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I found a most interesting book called Rumspringa. Rumspringa is little-known rite of passage among the Amish community. Now you would think the Amish being religious and all would be more strict than the average community. This particular right of passage not only allows but requires that when a kid turns 16 they "run around", i.e., they have no restrictions on drug and alcohol use, sex, using modern conveniences, partying etc. The purpose is for them to exercise have the experience to make a choice whether or not to commit to the community or be in the world. Interesting that this highly religious group acknowledges a person's inante intelligence and that being forced into compliance is not a "choice"; that "commitments" made in an absence of choice are meaningless. Different perspective, huh. The require kids to do exactly what thousands of others are getting locked up for. Reminds me of a family in town who allowed their girls to do exactly what they wanted; no restrictions on anything. Result: all the taboos lost appeal and focus. Today grown up they are great young women who have made much better choices then their peers whose parents were overinvolved in their kids "choices".
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I was sent to this place in 1997 got kicked out in 1998 on purpose this place is no picnic. It scares me to know it still is operating not going to go into to much details since I am 28 now and don't want to get sued for make statements against this place only decent person that worked there when I was there was a guy named Joel Davis he quit and I got kicked out shortly after that. If any parents or any staffers want to know my name and my account of this place email me at [email protected] with stone mountain as the subject
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I was sent to this place in 1997 got kicked out in 1998 on purpose this place is no picnic. It scares me to know it still is operating not going to go into to much details since I am 28 now and don't want to get sued for make statements against this place only decent person that worked there when I was there was a guy named Joel Davis he quit and I got kicked out shortly after that. If any parents or any staffers want to know my name and my account of this place email me at [email protected] with stone mountain as the subject
You cant get sued for anything you write thats true.
If yor are very afraid of being sued you can use a proxy. Just tell the truth. 28 is too old to still be scared
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We sent our son to Stone mtn. school in the last six years. The school had a good reputation but had just been purchased by Aspen. I agree it is wrong to nit-pick these places after we have made the decision to let someone else do what we have had such difficulty accomplishing. We were exhausted and at the end of our rope and needed help but I don't think the camp (not a school) is qualified to deal with the troubled youngsters sent to this place. A lot of complicated youths are delt with by untrained personnel, with a one-size-fits-all formula. There was not a single certified psychologist on the campus and so all psychological services were outsourced to psychologist and psychiatrist in Asheville. The reports of the youths behaviors were related by untrained counselors and their treatment plans were carried out by the young counselors on duty in the individual cabins.
The camp has a progressive level system that all are supposed to work on and succeed at or suffer numerous penalties. My son was able to progress up the level system to a certain point but then would make a mistake and have to start at the beginning. THe punishment system ran from having to eat your supper outside in any weater, to hours and hours sitting in an open field. The final payoff of the levels system was a rewards cabin for those who have been totally indoctrinated and accept the programs goals. THis was also the only way out of the school so those who could not concentrate for long enough on the levels (remember these kids mostly had ADD) had to come up with some way on their own to get out.
Enough whining from me on this experience. Most of the counselors were very nice and energetic just young, inexperienced poorly managed and receiving very little training. No one mishandled my child physically and the level system and rewards/punishment were presented to the parents before admission. My child had a year to read a lot of books, learn to get along with fourteen others in a cabin heated by wood they had to cut themselves.
If the camps goals were simply to provide breathing space for the families and outdoor living experiences they would have gotten a good grade but as a place providing psychological support for troubled youths then they are not worth the $5000 a month the place charges.
jsam
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at the end of our rope
When your kid decides it's time for a little surprise vengeance, that's when you'll be at the end of a rope, Sambo.