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Topics - Karass

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The Troubled Teen Industry / These Nazi programs still exist?
« on: June 05, 2011, 12:28:47 AM »
Sorry for my naivete, it's been a few years since I frequented this forum. I'm stunned that all of these Nazi brainwashing and illegal kidnapping programs haven't been shut down already. Are there really kids being handcuffed and shipped off to gulags in the middle of the night? In the USA? Say it isn't so!

The Troubled Teen Industry / No to programs, but then what do you do?
« on: June 18, 2009, 01:48:31 AM »
Forniscators, it's been a long time since I cruised these boards. I have a friend in a difficult spot and want to hear what options you think make sense for his family and his daughter. When he mentioned he was considering a program, I steered him over here and clued him in to Maia and her writings. Ok, so now the EdCons won't con him and everyone here can cheer that another kid was spared from the program experience.

But just saying no to programs doesn't make the underlying problems go away. His daughter is madly in love with an abuser who has already physically assaulted her and threatened to kill her and then himself. I don't pretend to understand why a woman would willfully keep going back into a harmful relationship with such a loser...but she does. Add to that the expected fireworks due to concerned parents trying to steer her clear of harm's way, and you have a very twisted Romeo & Juliet situation affecting a family (younger kids at home too) that is barely managing to get through each angry & crazy day.


Local outpatient therapy? Not likely, with an unwilling 'patient' who doesn't think there's a problem that needs to be worked on.
Emancipation? She can't support herself, and mom & dad aren't likely to be too thrilled at the idea that psycho-killer bf will have even more access to her if she's out on her own. Unlikely they would want to pay her bills to enable that situation.
Restraining order against the bf?
Battered women's counselors?
Just let her keep going on with this guy and hope she sees the light before he seriously injures or kills her?

It's not enough to say programs are bad, and programs only make things worse. That's true, but some people do still need help. What do we say to them?

PANAMA CITY, Fla. - The father of a 14-year-old who died at a boot camp was ordered out of the courtroom Wednesday after a judge accused him of making noises throughout the trial of seven guards and a nurse accused of killing his son.

Excerpted from:

"Anderson said he did not make any noises in court and blamed the disruption on a text message he said defense attorneys sent to someone seated near him."

Martin Lee Anderson's mom had earlier left the courtroom in tears, after the videotape of her son's attack was shown.

The Troubled Teen Industry / The dilemma of compromise
« on: July 31, 2007, 07:30:08 AM »
Much has been written here lately about compromising, about what it means to be a real advocate and a lot of talk about boycotts of advocate organizations.

For many people, there is no dilemma about compromising -- it's as easy as 'just say no' to programs and those who refer kids to them. That's an easy thing for many of us to agree to. But some people believe that in some cases when dealing with serious mental health issues, a short-term stay in a residential treatment facility -- a real treatment facility with doctors, licensing, etc. -- might be required to stabilize a person who is in immediate danger.

Is it really true that a person cannot be a youth advocate, be against the unregulated 'troubled teen' program industry, and still recognize that in some extreme cases, a short-term residential stay in a real treatment center might be necessary to save, for example, a suicidal person's life? The question doesn't just apply to youth, but to adults as well.

I was on earlier today and saw an ad for SAMHSA, which apparently has some kind of media campaign underway to reduce the stigma associated with mental health disorders. Good for them, I thought, and I clicked on the link to see where it led. I quickly ended up on their Mental Health Service Locator page: ... earch.aspx

Search the state of Utah and see what comes up -- a lot of places whose names Fornits readers won't recognize, some of which might be real treatment facilities (or maybe not, who knows?), but also a couple familiar names like Provo Canyon School. I saw that and thought WTF is this? The U.S. government can't even distinguish a medical treatment facility from a quack behavior mod facility?

I searched my own home state, city and surrounding 'burbs and found a couple places I recognize -- places I thought might be real treatment facilities. Then I googled them and found links to dirt on some of them -- newspaper articles from former staff making allegations of abuse or neglect, etc.

So what can I conclude? That all residential treatment is bad? I don't believe that's true. But what do people do when a loved one, whether a youth or an adult, is in a seriously bad way and needs (and wants) professional help? Outpatient treatment is the usual recommendation, but there are some quack outpatient programs too.

The problem, as I see it, is that regulation and licensing are no guarantee of quality care. Whether a facility is located in a big city and operated by a major health care corporation, or is just some mom & pop operation running out of a run-down mansion in Nowheresville, Utah -- either way, there is no assurance that a patient will get help rather than abuse or neglect.

Which is all the more reason why nobody is truly qualified to recommend a residential treatment facility to another person. I applaud the efforts of all advocates (however you define that) to make things better and to publicize known abusive programs. It's very discouraging to see someone attacked for their lack of extremism in fighting this evil. But I also understand the temptation, when dealing with someone who has to choose between the lesser of various evils, to try to tell them what you think you know and hope that they only make a "bad" choice instead of a "really bad" choice.

The Troubled Teen Industry / Advocate infighting just helps Programs
« on: July 22, 2007, 05:38:10 PM »
The infighting among individual advocates, advocate organizations, etc. seems to have really stepped up recently. Who does this benefit? Teens? Parents? Advocates? How about none of the above?

But the Program owners & supporters have got to be loving this. It makes their jobs easy -- just let the movement self-destruct from within. That's a common tactic authorities use against criminal organizations -- plant the seeds of doubt and distrust, and watch the individuals all turn on each other.

Whoever posted the thing about The Life of Brian, with the comical infighting between the Judean People's Front vs. the Judean Liberation Front, etc. hit the nail on the head.

The private prison industry sounds a lot like the private 'troubled teen' industry. The warden at this GEO Group owned facility ruled “based on verbal and physical intimidation.” Sounds a lot like an adult version of many of the wonderful teen facilities profiled on Fornits.

The Troubled Teen Industry / "Don't send her away, help her"
« on: May 22, 2007, 02:18:12 PM »
I just ran across this site about "re-framing" -- a concept I had not heard of before. It seems to be affiliated with something called the Strong model.

What caught my attention is the picture of the young woman with the message "don't send her away, help her." But within a few clicks, you find yourself at a site that's pushing residential programs.

Is this yet another new Marketing tactic? Telling parents they shouldn't send their kids away, and then proceeding to sell them on the idea that their particular kid really does need to be sent away?

The Troubled Teen Industry / Morality in parenting
« on: April 07, 2007, 12:22:15 AM »
Sorry Overlordd for stealing your idea, but I think the fornits bunch should weigh in on this topic. Most of them don't read the other forum, so here's a cross-post from a former "troubled teen" who's now a "troubled parent" (not really 'troubled', just 'concerned', 'confused' and a few other "c" words).

-- Punk

Kids, like their parents, are all unique individuals with their own beliefs, attitudes & behaviors. Sure, one expects that the way they were raised and the values of their parents have some influence on them. But that influence may be weaker in some than in others, or that influence may not manifest itself until later in life -- for example, when those kids become parents themselves, or when they have at least grown up a bit beyond adolescence.

Regardless of the parent's values or the way the kids were raised, certain issues like entitlement, selfishness, "invincibility" and disrespect of authority are much more prevalent in the teenage years than they were at a younger age -- or than they will be later in adulthood.

I don't think anyone has a good explanation for how or why a child who was raised one way can start to act in a completely different way just during adolescence, and then (usually) drift back toward a more stable center later in adulthoold. I think there is more to it than just hormones, negative peer influences, mass media influences and "mental illness."

The magic age at which rebellion & risky behavior dissipated for me and my friends from high school and college was somewhere in our early to mid-20s. Funny how successful most of us have been -- entrepeneurs, corporate VPs, doctors, dentists, lawyers, politicians, artists, musicians, engineers -- you name it. I can still remember the days when our parents thought we would all end up in jail or worse. Not all of us, just most of us. It's especially funny when I think about a few of them who are insanely rich (and somehow still happy), who are now providing a nice lifestyle for elderly parents who once gave them a heap of sh*t about pot plants growing in the back yard...

American society was different then -- you could be a teenager with problems and still end up being a leader in a Fortune 500 company and a major contributor to society after you finished your education, finished growing up and basically got your act together. You could even learn to be a good parent to your own kids.

Today's attitude is more along the lines of lock 'em up, drug 'em if they're sick and make them dependent...make them worthless, or at least make them feel worthless. Listen to TV "doctors" and other so-called "experts." Go online to forums like this, looking for advice that might help you figure out how someone else can do for your child what you have failed to do yourself. Doubt yourself and your parental abilities. Please, a whole industry is depending on that.

Back to parental influence. At some point in our parenting careers, there comes a day where each of us says something to their child and thinks "oh my God, I sounded just like my father"...or mother -- usually accompanied by the thought that we swore we would never become like our parents. At that point we realize that not everything mom & dad tried to teach us was nonsense. And we start to feel 'old.'

I'm glad I knew everything there was to know when I was 16, because ever since then I have been getting dumber, despite tons of college classes, a few degrees and more than half a lifetime of experiences.

I think by the time I'm a really old man, I will know everything there is to know about nothing, and will know almost nothing about everything.

But I sort of understand my teenage kids, who at this stage of their lives still know everything about everything -- especially the things I don't want them to know about. I allow them the freedom to make mistakes...and I fear for their future if they get caught.

Pretty sick stuff -- a 4-year-old was medicated to death by her parents while her doctor just kept writing prescriptions.

The Troubled Teen Industry / Programs in China...for "Internet Addiction"
« on: February 22, 2007, 08:51:09 AM »
Electric shocks and "tough love" 10x the average monthly salary of a Chinese family...but they have no shortage of parents wanting to "save" their kids from too much internet!

Sick stuff...

DAXING, China - Sun Jiting spends his days locked behind metal bars in this military-run installation, put there by his parents. The 17-year-old high school student is not allowed to communicate with friends back home, and his only companions are psychologists, nurses and other patients. Each morning at 6:30, he is jolted awake by a soldier in fatigues shouting, "This is for your own good!"

Sun's offense: Internet addiction.

read the rest at

The Troubled Teen Industry / My 'program kid' wants me to stop this shit!
« on: January 03, 2007, 01:31:40 AM »
"Dad, are you doing that advocacy shit again?"

"No, I'm just having a dialog with a bunch of people online. Sometimes I'm kinda of an advocate, and sometimes I'm a 'Program Parent,' sort of.

"You're just gonna get yourself all upset. Trust me, for me it's all good."

Then we get into another dialog about wilderness and TBS and all that. Maybe he'll join Fornits, but I think probably not. Between school and work and banging his girlfriend he doesn't have a lot of free time. Apparently I do. Maybe I should get a more challenging career...

BTW, he likes the phrase "mindfuck TBS." He never went to one, but he know several people who did and he think that's a pretty accurate description.

My teen and his friends are over here drinking -- should I send him to a program?

Sorry, I'm just fuckin' with ya.

Seriously he is having a few with his buddies, but hey I'd rather have them do that here and crash on the couch or wherever than be out on the road getting busted or worse.

Happy New Year's everyone...

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