Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Hyde Schools => Topic started by: Anonymous on November 02, 2005, 10:42:00 PM
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My family and I are looking at a number of boarding schools. We once considered Hyde School but now we are very troubled by many of the comments from people who seem to know Hyde pretty well. It doesn't sound like a healthy place for kids who struggle and have mental health issues. In addition to this website we've also heard many other people express serious concern about Hyde.
I've noticed that current Hyde students don't seem to be posting comments. Are they not allowed to use the internet? I assume some of them know about this website and have things to say about their Hyde experience. Would students get into trouble if they posted comments? Can they post comments when they go home?
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Hyde keeps a very close eye on what sites the students go to and if they were to find out they were posting on this site, there would be hell to pay. Probably would get on "2-4." Those of us who know Hyde know about "2-4" which is a punishment for "having a bad attitude."
Look folks, it is being said over and over again by those involved with Hyde! Don't get sucked into the Hyde Cult!! Parents, try to love your kids at home and no matter how frustrated you get, go see a counselor in your city! Hyde does NOT have any professionals on staff and don't let them tell you otherwise. Also, don't believe the crap about them sending your child to a local psychologist. Hyde does NOT work directly with them nor does Hyde cooperate with them!
Trust me parents, your kids are going to grow and change with or without Hyde. It is up to YOU, the parents, to get help in the meantime! Don't waste your hard earned money on Hyde.
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On 2005-11-03 10:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hyde keeps a very close eye on what sites the students go to and if they were to find out they were posting on this site, there would be hell to pay. Probably would get on "2-4." Those of us who know Hyde know about "2-4" which is a punishment for "having a bad attitude."
Look folks, it is being said over and over again by those involved with Hyde! Don't get sucked into the Hyde Cult!! Parents, try to love your kids at home and no matter how frustrated you get, go see a counselor in your city! Hyde does NOT have any professionals on staff and don't let them tell you otherwise. Also, don't believe the crap about them sending your child to a local psychologist. Hyde does NOT work directly with them nor does Hyde cooperate with them!
Trust me parents, your kids are going to grow and change with or without Hyde. It is up to YOU, the parents, to get help in the meantime! Don't waste your hard earned money on Hyde."
Perhaps some current Hyde students will post comments anonymously once they're off campus and home for breaks and vacations. Certainly Hyde can't control these students when they're away from the school, right?
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If so they'd better use the library or an internet cafe to post. Hyde knows about this site so I'll bet my bottom dollar that they're urging their parents to install spyware on their kids' computers.
Being sleepy can impair someone's ability to do thier job. People
can sleep at home and come to the job with sleepiness still in their system. The sleepiness can still be there long after the employee has slept. When someone is found to be sleepy on the job, they can claim that they went to sleep the night before. The only solution to this problem is to ban employees from sleeping.
--Arthur Slabosky
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On 2005-11-03 12:46:00, tommyfromhyde1 wrote:
"If so they'd better use the library or an internet cafe to post. Hyde knows about this site so I'll bet my bottom dollar that they're urging their parents to install spyware on their kids' computers.Being sleepy can impair someone's ability to do thier job. People
can sleep at home and come to the job with sleepiness still in their system. The sleepiness can still be there long after the employee has slept. When someone is found to be sleepy on the job, they can claim that they went to sleep the night before. The only solution to this problem is to ban employees from sleeping.
--Arthur Slabosky
"
Wouldn't it be ironic if Hyde tried to stifle students' efforts to express their opinions about their Hyde experience? The last time I checked we still had Constitutionally protected rights to freedom of speech. I would hope that Hyde would live up to its alleged commitment to honesty and would respect any student's fundamental right to express his or her opinions in a public forum. Any efforts to prevent responsible expression of opinion would stike me as terribly hypocritical. I would hope Hyde staff wouldn't even think of suggesting that parents bar students' wishes to express their opinions. Wouldn't that be a terrible lesson to teach students about their 1st Amendment rights? I trust they study the Constitution at Hyde.
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Private school kids don't have constitutional rights. Their rights end when the parents sign the papers and pay the tuition. That's the legal basis for ALL the abuse at all the programs that we're concerned about on these boards, not just Hyde.
In God's wildness lies the hope of the world x the great fresh unblighted, unredeemed wilderness. The galling harness of civilization drops off, and wounds heal ere we are aware.
-- John Muir
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On 2005-11-04 09:59:00, tommyfromhyde1 wrote:
"Private school kids don't have constitutional rights. Their rights end when the parents sign the papers and pay the tuition. That's the legal basis for ALL the abuse at all the programs that we're concerned about on these boards, not just Hyde.In God's wildness lies the hope of the world x the great fresh unblighted, unredeemed wilderness. The galling harness of civilization drops off, and wounds heal ere we are aware.
-- John Muir
"
Ah, but Hyde doesn't have any control over its students' efforts to express their opinions about Hyde when they're at home or at an Internet cafe, right? I assume students can say whatever they want in those off-campus venues, assuming it falls under constitutionally-protected guidelines.
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You people need to get a life. If a Hyde kid wants to post the truth on one of these sites, they can.
You have this weird idea of what it's like at Hyde.
And Tommy...please just shut up, you have NO clue!
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On 2005-11-04 10:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
Ah, but Hyde doesn't have any control over its students' efforts to express their opinions about Hyde when they're at home or at an Internet cafe, right? I assume students can say whatever they want in those off-campus venues, assuming it falls under constitutionally-protected guidelines."
You're forgetting that Hyde puts people on work crew for "bad attitude". That can include a negitive comment to a parent. A net post surely counts. If Hyde figures out who posted that person's gonna get it.
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On 2005-11-04 10:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You people need to get a life. If a Hyde kid wants to post the truth on one of these sites, they can.
You have this weird idea of what it's like at Hyde.
And Tommy...please just shut up, you have NO clue!
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Uh, dude? Tommy was a Hyde kid. So which is it; post all ya' want or shut up?Forgive, O Lord, my little joke on Thee and I'll forgive Thy great big one on me.
--Robert Frost, American poet
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I suppose it's possible that Hyde would get nervous about students posting comments on this website once they go home (or to some other off-campus location). I would hope Hyde wouldn't try to suppress free speech. But . . . if Hyde tries to prevent students' free speech and tries to interfere with their rights, a number of us who are active on this website are likely to hear about that since we're parents of current students and/or have close connections with parents of current students. If we hear that Hyde is trying to prevent students from expressing their views, we can publicize that fact on this website and elsewhere -- that will simply add to the perception that Hyde is into cult-like, controlling tactics and is fearful of bad publicity via students' reports. I know that many parents who once were considering Hyde are now pursuing other alternatives because of this website and other negative Hyde publicity.
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On 2005-11-04 17:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I suppose it's possible that Hyde would get nervous about students posting comments on this website once they go home (or to some other off-campus location). I would hope Hyde wouldn't try to suppress free speech.
Free speach is not a legal right for minors, and Hyde serves "in loco parentis" for a parents rights in that regard.
And Hyde, like any parent, has quite a legitimate interest (if not more imperative) in addressing this.
If you can't see that, I feel for your children.
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On 2005-11-04 18:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-11-04 17:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I suppose it's possible that Hyde would get nervous about students posting comments on this website once they go home (or to some other off-campus location). I would hope Hyde wouldn't try to suppress free speech.
Free speach is not a legal right for minors, and Hyde serves "in loco parentis" for a parents rights in that regard.
And Hyde, like any parent, has quite a legitimate interest (if not more imperative) in addressing this.
If you can't see that, I feel for your children."
You're absolutely wrong: teenagers certainly have free speech rights. Their rights aren't unlimited, but they do have the right to express their opinions on all sorts of matters (Are you not aware that lots of case law protects students' right to express a whole range of opinion in student newspapers, even though school administrators may not like what students have to say?).
Also, Hyde has no control over students who are living at home on summer vacation, etc. Do you really believe that teenagers living away from Hyde do not have a legal right to express their opinion about their Hyde experience? Do you disagree that teenagers should learn how to express their opinions responsibly and thoughtfully, whether their opinions are critical or supportive of Hyde? I think it's important to remember that this is the United States--not some totalitarian state that severely restricts citizens' right to express their views.
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On 2005-11-04 18:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-11-04 17:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I suppose it's possible that Hyde would get nervous about students posting comments on this website once they go home (or to some other off-campus location). I would hope Hyde wouldn't try to suppress free speech.
Free speach is not a legal right for minors, and Hyde serves "in loco parentis" for a parents rights in that regard.
And Hyde, like any parent, has quite a legitimate interest (if not more imperative) in addressing this.
If you can't see that, I feel for your children."
Oh my -- Do you REALLY mean what you said: "Free speech is not a legal right for minors"? This sounds like such a typical Hyde response in that (1) it is arrogant and (2) ignores what's well known in the outside world. Teens have the right to say what they think so long as they don't infringe on the rights of others, disrupt the schools they attend or the schools' pedagogical mission, etc. Here's one analysis: http://www.nlg-la.org/student_rights.pdf (http://www.nlg-la.org/student_rights.pdf)
As the U.S. Supreme Court opined in Tinker v. Des Moines Independent School District, students do not "shed their constitutional rights...at the schoolhouse gate" (393 U.S. at 506)
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Thanks for providing that! Do those rules only apply to California?
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Tinker only applies to public schools.
Fresh beauty opens one's eyes wherever it is really seen, but the very abundance and completeness of the common beauty that besets our steps prevents its being absorbed and appreciated. It is a good thing, therefore, to make short excursions now and then to the bottom of the sea among dulse and coral, or up among the clouds on mountain-tops, or in balloons, or even to creep like worms into dark holes and caverns underground, not only to learn something of what is going on in those out-of-the-way places, but to see better what the sun sees on our return to common everyday beauty.
-- John Muir
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Same outcome at Killian High in Miami back in `99
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_Nine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_Nine)Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.
--Philosopher, Blaise Pascal
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As a lawyer, I say forget the legal analysis and consider this: any place that forbids criticism (other than of one's own self) and/or independent thought is an unhealthy place to send your kid. And private institution or not, it's contrary to our American values.
To any kids there, I say speak your mind and when they say you've got attitude, tell them that their stifling of free speech and independent thought is contrary to the values we hold dear as members of a free society.
Our country is a marketplace of ideas that are exchanged, fought over, compromised, etc. It's a big part of what makes our nation great. Hyde is only interested in their ideas - discussion of anything that brings them into question is not tolerated there.
Speak your mind. And if you feel that anything they inflict on you amounts to abuse, report them to the proper authorities.
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Lars, politcal pull seems to trump "proper authorities" in the case of teen gulags. Just ask the Straight folks or the WWASP folks. Remember how Hyde had kids working as campaign volunteers? Those elected officials owe Hyde. And Hyde's probably the biggest or second biggest employer in Bath (depending on how many orders Bath Iron Works has). Bad press might work but a CPS worker who inquires too closely into Hyde's practices would likely get his chain yanked by someone in Augusta.
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On 2005-11-05 12:06:00, Lars wrote:
"As a lawyer, I say forget the legal analysis and consider this: any place that forbids criticism (other than of one's own self) and/or independent thought is an unhealthy place to send your kid. And private institution or not, it's contrary to our American values.
To any kids there, I say speak your mind and when they say you've got attitude, tell them that their stifling of free speech and independant thought is contrary the values we hold dear as members of a free society.
Our country is a marketplace of ideas that are exchanged, fought over, compromised, etc. It's a big part of what makes our nation great. Hyde is only interested in their ideas - discussion of anything that brings them into question is not tolerated there.
Speak your mind. And if you feel that anything they inflict on you amounts to abuse, report them to the proper authorities."
Thank you for this wonderfully eloquent statement. I agree completely: Hyde students should not be intimidated by Hyde's zealous attempts to limit free speech. Hyde students who want to speak out should TRULY embrace Hyde's supposed commitment to courage, truth, integrity, and concern (among Hyde's favorite terms). What that means is . . . if you have constructive criticism to offer, you should feel free to say it publicly. No one -- at Hyde or elsewhere -- has a right to discourage the free expression of ideas. Hyde clearly facilitates public pronouncements of its model when it works to the school's advantage. If Hyde staff are sincere about the school's core values, they should applaud students who have the integrity and courage to speak out about their Hyde-related concerns.
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Yeah, well, hmm. I think some of Hyde's practices (as described by some former students and parents) probably fit the definition of clear and obvious abuse and neglect that would fall to "the authorities".
What would the authorities do, for example, about the hours and hours of meaningless stick moving or excessive physical excercise? I would guess they'd place arbitrary limits. That's what they usually do. So a kid who's determined and posessed of great stamina and ambition would be prevented from pushing the limits. But they could still, easily, humiliate and torment an asthmatic or just a non-athletically inclined kid within those limits.
It seems to me that they're actually quite keen to that and willing, even eager, to bend their program to accomodate those rules and regulations.
I know I hang out with and share genuine respect and affection w/ a bunch of very left wing pro-regulation type people. But I'm not one myself. I sincerely believe that this problem that we're talking about--the one manifest by the troubled parent industry--is best addressed by going back to our rebellious, radical cultural roots. The old fashioned sensibility was that the buyer beware. That doesn't get it 100% of the time. But I think it's a far more effective, less expensive, and more comfortable approach than to put it off on Big Brother.
But that's just me, and I remain very well out of the mainstream on that point. The point of agreement among all critics that I know of is that we must be free to beat the issue around like a red headed step child.
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is
proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in
everlasting ignorance- that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
--Herbert Spencer
_________________
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
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On 2005-11-05 12:06:00, Lars wrote:
"As a lawyer, I say forget the legal analysis and consider this: any place that forbids criticism (other than of one's own self) and/or independent thought is an unhealthy place to send your kid. And private institution or not, it's contrary to our American values.
To any kids there, I say speak your mind and when they say you've got attitude, tell them that their stifling of free speech and independent thought is contrary to the values we hold dear as members of a free society.
Our country is a marketplace of ideas that are exchanged, fought over, compromised, etc. It's a big part of what makes our nation great. Hyde is only interested in their ideas - discussion of anything that brings them into question is not tolerated there.
Speak your mind. And if you feel that anything they inflict on you amounts to abuse, report them to the proper authorities."
Add your comments to the following website. No one has posted yet from the Bath Campus*******
http://www.ratemyteachers.com/schools/c ... yde_school (http://www.ratemyteachers.com/schools/connecticut/woodstock/hyde_school)
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On 2005-11-05 12:06:00, Lars wrote:
"As a lawyer, I say forget the legal analysis and consider this: any place that forbids criticism (other than of one's own self) and/or independent thought is an unhealthy place to send your kid. And private institution or not, it's contrary to our American values.
Couldn't agree more. The problem is not free speech and independent thought however, its determining the line between that and attitude.
To any kids there, I say speak your mind and when they say you've got attitude, tell them that their stifling of free speech and independent thought is contrary to the values we hold dear as members of a free society.
Couldn't disagree more and I think bad advise. How would you respond to your child if they responded to you as you advise? Would you let the child determine what's attitude and what's independent thought? I certainly wouldn't.
I understand your point, and its good advise for adults, but I think this is conceptually and legally wrong for the kids at Hyde.
Lets face it, many kids are at Hyde because of attitude problems, and you would no more give them a veil behind which to sheild there attitudes than you would your own kids (well, at least I with mine)!
And legally, the contract parents sign with Hyde gives Hyde the ability to stand in the place of the parent. That pre-empts virtually ALL free speech rights.
While California has a unique statute that protects some speech rights in private schools, in most states, there is no such protection. You can debate whether that's good or bad, but it is what it is.
Otherwise, as far as I can tell from what I have found on the web, almost all of the cases people site above are only applicable to PUBLIC institutions, and even with those, free speech at a high-school level is subject to a fair amount of restrictions.
http://www.splc.org/legalresearch.asp?id=52 (http://www.splc.org/legalresearch.asp?id=52)
(Note that this page supports your concept that its bad practice, but my interpretation that there is no "right" of free speech. FWIW, I also don't think the authors were necessarily thinking of a Hyde-type school when writing this.)
http://www.hb-rights.org/2speech/ (http://www.hb-rights.org/2speech/)
http://privateschool.about.com/cs/stude ... rights.htm (http://privateschool.about.com/cs/students/a/studentsrights.htm)
Hyde is only interested in their ideas - discussion of anything that brings them into question is not tolerated there.
This is actually what I think is the nub of your point. Not legalities. Not free speech. Its that you believe Hyde isn't open to dissent....and what this really comes down to is whether you think they either (a) simply don't like all dissent, or (b) will take issue with dissent that reflects, reinforces, or venerates attitudes that are conter-productive to character development.
I have to say in my experience, it clearly wasn't (a), and I saw a lot of (b). Is there dissent they shut down that was legitimate? Probably, but as an institution do they simply shut down all defense. Nope, sorry, I was there, and that was not the case.
Did they miss it once it a while? Sure, everyone is human, and maybe they are overzealous at times, but my experience was not anywhere close to the black and white you report. And did I see "dissent" very legitimately shut down time and time again. You betcha.
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On 2005-11-06 01:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"On 2005-11-05 12:06:00, Lars wrote:
"As a lawyer, I say forget the legal analysis and consider this: any place that forbids criticism (other than of one's own self) and/or independent thought is an unhealthy place to send your kid. And private institution or not, it's contrary to our American values.
Couldn't agree more. The problem is not free speech and independent thought however, its determining the line between that and attitude.
To any kids there, I say speak your mind and when they say you've got attitude, tell them that their stifling of free speech and independent thought is contrary to the values we hold dear as members of a free society.
Couldn't disagree more and I think bad advise. How would you respond to your child if they responded to you as you advise? Would you let the child determine what's attitude and what's independent thought? I certainly wouldn't.
I understand your point, and its good advise for adults, but I think this is conceptually and legally wrong for the kids at Hyde.
Lets face it, many kids are at Hyde because of attitude problems, and you would no more give them a veil behind which to sheild there attitudes than you would your own kids (well, at least I with mine)!
And legally, the contract parents sign with Hyde gives Hyde the ability to stand in the place of the parent. That pre-empts virtually ALL free speech rights.
While California has a unique statute that protects some speech rights in private schools, in most states, there is no such protection. You can debate whether that's good or bad, but it is what it is.
Otherwise, as far as I can tell from what I have found on the web, almost all of the cases people site above are only applicable to PUBLIC institutions, and even with those, free speech at a high-school level is subject to a fair amount of restrictions.
http://www.splc.org/legalresearch.asp?id=52 (http://www.splc.org/legalresearch.asp?id=52)
(Note that this page supports your concept that its bad practice, but my interpretation that there is no "right" of free speech. FWIW, I also don't think the authors were necessarily thinking of a Hyde-type school when writing this.)
http://www.hb-rights.org/2speech/ (http://www.hb-rights.org/2speech/)
http://privateschool.about.com/cs/stude ... rights.htm (http://privateschool.about.com/cs/students/a/studentsrights.htm)
Hyde is only interested in their ideas - discussion of anything that brings them into question is not tolerated there.
This is actually what I think is the nub of your point. Not legalities. Not free speech. Its that you believe Hyde isn't open to dissent....and what this really comes down to is whether you think they either (a) simply don't like all dissent, or (b) will take issue with dissent that reflects, reinforces, or venerates attitudes that are conter-productive to character development.
I have to say in my experience, it clearly wasn't (a), and I saw a lot of (b). Is there dissent they shut down that was legitimate? Probably, but as an institution do they simply shut down all defense. Nope, sorry, I was there, and that was not the case.
Did they miss it once it a while? Sure, everyone is human, and maybe they are overzealous at times, but my experience was not anywhere close to the black and white you report. And did I see "dissent" very legitimately shut down time and time again. You betcha.
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While I accept some of your points, I cannot accept others. When parents sign their kids over to Hyde, parents don't agree to let Hyde run every aspect of a kid's life, including off-campus life. Clearly Hyde has authority on campus. Hyde does not have control over kids who are at home over break and during summers.
Yes, many kids are at Hyde because of attitude problems. However, I vehemently disagree that this means kids should not be encouraged to speak out and express their opinions in a responsible way. Irresponsible expression is a problem -- fine. But, I would argue that if Hyde really believes what it says about character development, Hyde staff should encourage its students to speak out in a RESPONSIBLE way and to learn how to do that. That includes students identifying what they like about Hyde and find valuable AND what they find problematic and destructive. Communicating to Hyde students that they should stifle their opinions and that they do not have the right to express them is the antithesis of character development. I would hope Hyde wouldn't engage in that kind of hypocrisy. If kids abuse the free speech privilege, they should be held accountable. What we should be about, I think, is helping these kids become responsible citizens who express opinions -- even unpopular ones -- in a responsible fashion. Constraining free speech happens when institutions engage in totalitarian tactics and thought control. I hope Hyde doesn't stoop to that.
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On 2005-11-06 01:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
And legally, the contract parents sign with Hyde gives Hyde the ability to stand in the place of the parent. That pre-empts virtually ALL free speech rights.
Bullshit. Legally, ethically and logically, teenaged kids have a right to free speech. Most especially, everyone has a right to speak up about abuse that they experience or wittness. Your contract ain't worth the paper it's printed on once you cross that line, legally.
Ethically? How can you defend such a blatantly obvious double standard. From what I've read about Hyde, past and present, any kid or parent at any time is expected and required to take any kind of criticizm--no matter how private or humiliating in nature--w/o complaint or protest. And, at the same time, any criticizm of this or any other of the school, it's policies and practices or any person the Goulds place in authority, is to be stiffled, condemned and viewed as evidence of some moral flaw in the plaintiff.
You don't get out much, do ya? Cause I'm guessing you have to work pretty hard at cloistering yourself among fellow true believers in order to maintain your circular belief system.
God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Perl Services
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As a former Hyde parent, it is so obvious this person has no idea what he/she is writing about. Our son chose to go to Hyde and flourished while he was a student there. He is smart, athletic, just an all-around kind of guy, and he often says that if he hadn't had his experience at Hyde, he would have never developed and applied the skills and principles he has. After graduating from college two years ago, he went out into the business world and became very successful. He attributes much of his success to his experience at Hyde, saying he's glad the faculty at the school made him accountable for learning and pushed him beyond what he thought he could ever do.
He and I both see so many kids coming out of many schools afraid of their own shadows, protected by their parents who hover around them, micromanage their lives, and defend them when they're off-track at school. These kids often have no coping skills, are diagnosed with every mental illness, disorder, learning disability that exists, and their way of coping is to hang on to their parents for support well into adulthood, hang on to their diagnoses as a crutch to excuse them from any accountablility, and take their pill cocktails.
My guess is that the person who wrote this is one of those wimp kind of kids.
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To the former parent who thinks a wimp's been writing this stuff:
Maybe your kid discovered himself there, but for others like myself, the true discovery and growth occured after we escaped from their repressive one size fits all program.
I became more outgoing and personable AFTER I left.
I discovered I was a top student AFTER I left.
I became happy and confident AFTER I left.
And by the way, I was a lot tougher, both physically and mentally, than most of the true believers there. Believe it. :wink:
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On 2005-11-06 10:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
He and I both see so many kids coming out of many schools afraid of their own shadows, protected by their parents who hover around them, micromanage their lives, and defend them when they're off-track at school.
And then there are people like you who have "people" to do that for them.
Tell me, former Hyde parent, how much did you benefit from discussing the private details of your marriage and other aspects of your personal life in front of the entire student body, parents and faculty? Do you think that's an appropriate thing to do? Do you do that in public in other settings? Do you think you'd be meeting the nice young men in their clean white coats if you did?
It is the absolute right of the state to supervise the formation of public opinion.
--Joseph Goebbels
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On 2005-11-06 10:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"As a former Hyde parent, it is so obvious this person has no idea what he/she is writing about. Our son chose to go to Hyde and flourished while he was a student there. He is smart, athletic, just an all-around kind of guy, and he often says that if he hadn't had his experience at Hyde, he would have never developed and applied the skills and principles he has. After graduating from college two years ago, he went out into the business world and became very successful. He attributes much of his success to his experience at Hyde, saying he's glad the faculty at the school made him accountable for learning and pushed him beyond what he thought he could ever do.
He and I both see so many kids coming out of many schools afraid of their own shadows, protected by their parents who hover around them, micromanage their lives, and defend them when they're off-track at school. These kids often have no coping skills, are diagnosed with every mental illness, disorder, learning disability that exists, and their way of coping is to hang on to their parents for support well into adulthood, hang on to their diagnoses as a crutch to excuse them from any accountablility, and take their pill cocktails.
My guess is that the person who wrote this is one of those wimp kind of kids."
You are certainly entitled to your opinions about Hyde's benefits. Obviously, some people agree with you and, as this and other websites attest, many people vehemently disagree with you.
I am particularly troubled by your last comment: "My guess is that the person who wrote this is one of those wimp kind of kids." I have no idea to whom you're referring, but that kind of judgmental, dismissive language is exactly what is driving us away from Hyde. We are so tired of that sort of arrogance, and we've come across it repeatedly at Hyde. We've now talked with parents whose kids attend other schools where this kind of language and disrespect is not tolerated. At Hyde, unfortunately, it is typical. This is yet another example of the remarkable Hyde hypocrisy. Staff and parents love to talk about integrity and character, but their actual behavior seems to display just the opposite quality.
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On 2005-11-06 10:45:00, Antigen wrote:
"
On 2005-11-06 01:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
And legally, the contract parents sign with Hyde gives Hyde the ability to stand in the place of the parent. That pre-empts virtually ALL free speech rights.
Bullshit. Legally, ethically and logically, teenaged kids have a right to free speech. Most especially, everyone has a right to speak up about abuse that they experience or wittness. Your contract ain't worth the paper it's printed on once you cross that line, legally.
Ethically? How can you defend such a blatantly obvious double standard. From what I've read about Hyde, past and present, any kid or parent at any time is expected and required to take any kind of criticizm--no matter how private or humiliating in nature--w/o complaint or protest. And, at the same time, any criticizm of this or any other of the school, it's policies and practices or any person the Goulds place in authority, is to be stiffled, condemned and viewed as evidence of some moral flaw in the plaintiff.
You don't get out much, do ya? Cause I'm guessing you have to work pretty hard at cloistering yourself among fellow true believers in order to maintain your circular belief system.
God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Perl Services
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Sorry Antigen. You are just proving your ignorance and on the legal point, you are completely wrong.
Let's start at the start. Children have free speech ONLY to the extent their parents allow it. A parent may contractually give another institution the same right....that is, they say in a contract, "we the parent agree to let you the institution have the same power and dominion over our child as we do". This is called "in loco parentis", and is the controlling law in most states, and last I knew for sure in MAINE.
Ethically, if you think a child has the right to say whatever they want, then I can only guess you are not a parent!
Students at Hyde ARE allowed to speak up and do ALL the time. In fact when I was there, students basically ran the school. But if a kid has a bad attitude or been out getting high or cheated on a test and is on 2-4, and then writes about how the school is abusive, that simply serves as evidence of their attitude and what gets challenged is NOT the free speech but the attitude.
Anyway, once again you are writing about the school that you never went to and don't know squat about except what you read from angry ex-students who don't disclose their back story.
I am open to a debate on free speech as an ethical matter, but legally you are wrong, and like Lars, your position is really based on the assumption that dissent is not permitted, and that's a load of crap.
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Just to be clear on this last post, if a child is suffering abuse that is ILLEGAL of course they have the right to speech. (It suddenly occured to me that this might be your point.)
SHORT OF THAT, however, for all intents and purposes, if they are at a private school, they don't!
See the articles I sited about. That is just the law.
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On 2005-11-06 11:15:00, Lars wrote:
"To the former parent who thinks a wimp's been writing this stuff:
Maybe your kid discovered himself there, but for others like myself, the true discovery and growth occured after we escaped from their repressive one size fits all program.
I became more outgoing and personable AFTER I left.
I discovered I was a top student AFTER I left.
I became happy and confident AFTER I left.
And by the way, I was a lot tougher, both physically and mentally, than most of the true believers there. Believe it. :wink: "
See that's the thing about Hyde. It doesn't always "work" right in the moment. All change takes time. If this is all true about you, I would argue that maybe Hyde DID work for you and you just don't realize it. Or moreso, you don't realize where your life would have gone without that foundation. I know you will dispute this, but your experience is similar to mine. I was distraught at HYde, but deep down inside I knew they were giving me something that no one else ever had, and slowly later in life as I pulled things together, it was the Hyde teachings that I relied upon to guide me.
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On 2005-11-06 12:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-11-06 11:15:00, Lars wrote:
"To the former parent who thinks a wimp's been writing this stuff:
Maybe your kid discovered himself there, but for others like myself, the true discovery and growth occured after we escaped from their repressive one size fits all program.
I became more outgoing and personable AFTER I left.
I discovered I was a top student AFTER I left.
I became happy and confident AFTER I left.
And by the way, I was a lot tougher, both physically and mentally, than most of the true believers there. Believe it. :wink: "
See that's the thing about Hyde. It doesn't always "work" right in the moment. All change takes time. If this is all true about you, I would argue that maybe Hyde DID work for you and you just don't realize it. Or moreso, you don't realize where your life would have gone without that foundation. I know you will dispute this, but your experience is similar to mine. I was distraught at HYde, but deep down inside I knew they were giving me something that no one else ever had, and slowly later in life as I pulled things together, it was the Hyde teachings that I relied upon to guide me."
I'm glad to know that Hyde worked for you. I don't question your sincerity. But, are you willing to accept the fact that for many other students and parents, Hyde was a destructive, harmful environment that has left serious emotional scars? This and other websites include testimonial after testimonial from thoughtful people who can identify some very specfic Hyde features that were very damaging (emotionally abusive staff, FLCs that were led by people who were not at all equipped to deal with the intense emotional drama, poor teaching, public shaming, etc., etc.). This may not have been your experience, but, obviously, this was the experience for many others.
There are lots of other boarding schools that serve struggling teens. Interestingly, I've never heard these sorts of chronic complaints about most of these other schools, and I've looked (I'm not including the handful of schools that have been featured in the news because of their apparently abusive practices.) There is something about Hyde that is very unique: It has managed to elicit some of the most vociferous, angry, vitriolic criticism you'll find anywhere concerning a school. This should tell you something about the way many people experience Hyde.
I know what some Hyde fans and the Gaulds are likely to say: These critics are people who simply didn't commit themselves to the Hyde process, have attitude problems, etc. The truth, however, is that many of these folks are thoughtful, principled people who understand Hyde and say it like it is. That's a truth that Hyde fans simply have difficulty hearing. Fortunately, many others ARE willing to hear that message.
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On 2005-11-06 12:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-11-06 11:15:00, Lars wrote:
"To the former parent who thinks a wimp's been writing this stuff:
Maybe your kid discovered himself there, but for others like myself, the true discovery and growth occured after we escaped from their repressive one size fits all program.
I became more outgoing and personable AFTER I left.
I discovered I was a top student AFTER I left.
I became happy and confident AFTER I left.
And by the way, I was a lot tougher, both physically and mentally, than most of the true believers there. Believe it. :wink: "
See that's the thing about Hyde. It doesn't always "work" right in the moment. All change takes time. If this is all true about you, I would argue that maybe Hyde DID work for you and you just don't realize it. Or moreso, you don't realize where your life would have gone without that foundation. I know you will dispute this, but your experience is similar to mine. I was distraught at HYde, but deep down inside I knew they were giving me something that no one else ever had, and slowly later in life as I pulled things together, it was the Hyde teachings that I relied upon to guide me."
Have you even listened to a word I've been saying? What foundation? What values - snitching on others? Humiliating them emotionally? Assuming you know what's good for all other people, regardless of what their problems might be? Intolerance for dissent? As time has gone by, I have come to realize that Hyde set back my emotional and intellectual development by at least three years. It wasn't anything I learned at Hyde that got me going towards that success I've experienced. Proper medication and therapy were critical. It was also the realization that I actually had some things going for me in terms of talent, character (yes, character) and personality that could never flourish in a place where others were trying to mold me into something I was not.
Why can't the folks who love Hyde realize that it's not the right kind of place or belief system for a lot of people? Why can't they realize that some people succeed in spite of the place instead of because of it?
I've reflected on this for the last fifteen years, and I've come to the conclusion that it was not a very helpful or valuable experience (except to the extent that I learned to not be so judgmental towards others). To put it another way, I'm a pretty successful person and I would NEVER send my kids there. If they turn out to have serious emotional or educational problems, we'll look elsewhere.[ This Message was edited by: Lars on 2005-11-06 13:11 ][ This Message was edited by: Lars on 2005-11-06 13:17 ]
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At this moment in my life, as a parent, I feel totally ashamed that I put my son at Hyde. My son did not have emotional problems when he went. (BTW, we keep hearing over and over again from the fans at hyde, that Hyde has a lot of kids with emotional problems. If this is so, WHY do they advertise that they are an emotional growth prep school???)
Possibly Hyde is good for a small select group. My guess is that Hyde is for WEAK families who are looking for a Cult Like Leader to guide them with their children. Most parents are at the end of their rope when they decide to place their children at Hyde.
Individuals who are prone to joining Cults have a particular characteristic which makes them vulnerable to these types of Leaders. They need the crutch that Hyde provides. What I am trying to say is that Hyde can be good for some, but not for most. For that matter many people have gotten positive things out of joining the Hari Krishna or other Cults. It is very common for people who are in Cults, to deny they are in a Cult. Most parents who are happy with Hyde, (there are very few each year) fit into this category.
My guess is that Lars is a very strong individual who wasn't going to fall and turn over his soul to Hyde and Joe Gauld. Most grown adults and their kids realize after time at Hyde that it is only for the weak! Did my son get something out of Hyde? The answer to that is that everyone hopefully gets something out of everything they experience in life, but it didn't take Hyde to get him to where he is in life. He too is a successful businessman and we all feel ashamed we got sucked into Hyde for a couple of years. We NEVER talk about it to strangers for it is something we are embarassed about. I find that most former parents try to hide the fact they were at Hyde.
You might ask why if Hyde is so bad are there posters saying positive things about the program. You are always going to find someone who is happy with turning their lives over to someone else. Look at all the Bush lovers, ha, ha!! As soon as Hyde found out about this website, they surely got the satisfied parents to help post on it.
My suggestion to some of you savy people who know the internet is to start some other websites about Hyde so that when perspective parents "google" Hyde, they will see more sites with information. Right now this site is pretty far down below all the Hyde promotional materials.
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On 2005-11-06 13:11:00, Lars wrote:
Why can't the folks who love Hyde realize that it's not the right kind of place or belief system for a lot of people? Why can't they realize that some people succeed in spite of the place instead of because of it?
Lars, it's not too dissimilar to battered spouse syndrome. In fact, an abusive romatic relationship is often called "a cult of one".
All of these comforting and reasonable things were taught by the ministers in their pulpits -- by teachers in Sunday schools and by parents at home. The children were victims. They were assaulted in the cradle -- in their mother's arms. Then, the schoolmaster carried on the war against their natural sense, and all the books they read were filled with the same impossible truths. The poor children were helpless. The atmosphere they breathed was filled with lies -- lies that mingled with their blood.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
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At least you did not put your child in the Elan School :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: