Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Aspen Education Group => Topic started by: Troll Control on April 24, 2007, 03:50:50 PM
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Split off from ASR thread...
Here are the regulations regarding Special Education Schools in Massachusetts. ASR is in complete violation of the rules. Notation has been added in some places along with emphasis.
28.09: Approval of Public and Private Day and Residential Special Education School Programs
(1) Approval from the Department. The Department may grant approval to public and private day and residential schools providing special education services (special education schools) in Massachusetts in order to ensure that a continuum of special education programs is available to Massachusetts students with disabilities. Approval shall be granted by the Department in accordance with the provisions of 603 CMR 28.09. Upon receipt of approval special education schools are eligible to enroll publicly funded Massachusetts eligible students. Approval does not relieve special education schools of their obligation to comply with other applicable state or federal statutory or regulatory requirements or requirements set forth in their contracts with referral sources.
(a) Limited approval for out-of-state programs. The Department may grant approval to public and private day and residential schools providing special education services (special education schools) in states other than Massachusetts in the following circumstances.
1. An out-of-state program, in cooperation with a Massachusetts school district, seeks approvaI from the Department. The following documentation is required.
(i) Written verification by the Massachusetts school district of its intent to place an eligible Massachusetts student in the out-of-state program.
(ii) Documentation from the program that the host state has approved the program to provide services to students with disabilities. If the host state does not have an approval process, then the program must provide documentation of reputable accreditation.
(iii) Documentation of tuition rate approved by the host state. If the host state does not approve or otherwise regulate tuition rates, then the program shall provide documentation meeting the requirements of the Massachusetts agency responsible for setting rates for special education schools and showing that the proposed rate is the lowest rate charged to any enrolled student for similar services.
Upon receipt of required documentation, the Department may grant approval for a period of time not to exceed three years from the date of application. The Department may withhold such approval if it deems that circumstances warrant such action. In such case, the Department will notify the Massachusetts school district and the out-of-state program of its actions and the reason for such actions.
Once approved by the Department, out-of-state programs may accept Massachusetts students without additional documentation during the three-year period of approval. It is the responsibility of the out-of-state program, in cooperation with a Massachusetts school district, to reinitiate the three-year approval status.
(b) Approval for Massachusetts special education schools. Approval for schools operating in Massachusetts includes meeting all of the requirements of 603 CMR 28.09 and 603 CMR 18.00. The Department reserves the right to withhold or deny approval if, in its discretion, circumstances warrant such action.
(2) Eligibility. Any individual, not-for-profit corporation or agency, or proprietary corporation or public educational collaborative or school district may file an application to establish and/or operate a special education school in Massachusetts to serve eligible students with disabilities. The Department shall require justification of the need for such program and may establish standards for approval eligibility, including but not limited to, standards for minimum or maximum size of such program.
(a) Residential programs shall demonstrate initiation of a request for a license with the state agency responsible for licensing programs providing residential childcare. Such state agency shall be responsible for licensing the residential non-educational component of the program. ASR in violation
The Department of Education shall not grant final approval of the educational component of the residential school until all licensing activity for the residential component has been completed and a license has been awarded.
The educational component of a residential program must reflect the 24-hour nature of the service and indicate how residential services and educational services will be fully coordinated.
(b) The Department shall develop approval standards that shall specify the types of information, policies, procedures, and assurances to be included in any application for approval. The application shall include, but not be limited to:
A demonstration of the need for such a program;
The population to be served. Such population shall, at a minimum, consist of a majority of students who have been determined eligible for special education services. Again, answers the "special needs question," but childcaring license is already required by above rule
The anticipated special education and related services that the program will provide;
The legal and financial stability of the program;
The safety and appropriateness of the physical plant for the student population that the school will serve;
Documentation of qualified staff; and Must meet all requirements for special education under Mass law - ASR does not. not a single spec ed teacher on the premises
Procedures detailing how the school will provide education services for the identified population of students.
(c) For public special education school programs, the public school or educational collaborative must demonstrate that the program is developed for programmatic reasons and not because of lack of space at an in-district location.
(3) Department review and approval. The Department shall review for approval each application submitted and shall consult with other state agencies as necessary. The Department may, at its discretion, schedule site visits, interviews, or other inspection of the proposed program. State must be granted ability to conduct "pop inspections" The Department may deny approval; grant temporary, provisional, or full approval; or grant probationary approval. The Department shall provide the applicant with a written notice of its actions and the reasons for such actions.
(a) Temporary approval/program pricing. The Department, upon granting temporary approval to private special education schools, shall forward such approval, together with a description of approved program elements for the educational component of the program, and applicable pricing elements for the residential component of the program, if any, to the state agency responsible for program pricing.
(b) Provisional approval. If provisional approval is granted, the Department shall indicate the specific conditions that shall be met and shall establish a time limit not to exceed six months within which the program shall meet those conditions. In no case shall approval be given unless the applicant can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Department that the health and safety of the students is protected and the school is able to carry out the provisions of each student's IEP.
(4) Probationary approval. The Department may place the program on probationary status if it becomes aware of conditions at the school that, in the Department's judgment, compromise the program's ability to provide a safe, healthy and appropriate educational environment. In such circumstances, the Department shall provide written notice of the probationary status, the circumstances that caused the Department to take such action, and the actions necessary to correct the problem.
(a) Health and safety issues. When, in the Department's judgment, conditions at the school threaten the health or safety of the students in the program, acceptance of any additional eligible students (intake) may be prohibited and the Department shall establish a time not to exceed 14 days within which the program shall correct the problem.
(b) Educational issues. When, in the Department's judgment, conditions at the school compromise the program's ability to provide an appropriate education but do not threaten the health and safety of the students, the Department shall establish a time limit up to 90 days during which the program shall correct the problem. The Department shall determine if it is necessary to close intake during this period. The Department shall not close intake for more than 60 days in any 12-month period without a full review of the approval status of the school.
(c) Notification requirements. Within two school days of receipt of notice from the Department placing the program's approval on probation, the program shall provide notification to the parents of all enrolled Massachusetts students, all Massachusetts school districts with enrolled students, and officials of Massachusetts human service agencies or agencies of other states with responsibility for any students at the school. Notification shall state that the school has been assigned probationary status; that intake is closed, if applicable, and the reasons for such status.
(d) Completed corrective action. At the end of the time period for corrective action or when the issue giving rise to probationary status is resolved, whichever is sooner, the Department may reinstate the approval status of the program, change the approval status to provisional, or withdraw approval. The Department shall provide written notification of its action to the special education school.
(e) Request for reconsideration. Within one month of receipt of a written request for reconsideration of any Department action in relation to probationary status, the Department shall consider the request and make formal written response. The Department may, at its discretion, hold a hearing on the facts, make site visits, or issue an alternative remedy.
(5) Disclosure of information.
(a) An approved special education school shall make available to the Department, on request, information on all aspects of the school's program(s), the certification or credentials of its staff, and the individual records of enrolled Massachusetts students. This is what ASR refused to give EEC and "escorted the representative off the premises"
(b) The approved special education school shall also maintain on site and provide, on request, documentation of a safety inspection of all buildings by the Department of Public Safety or the local building inspector, an annual fire safety inspection from the local fire department, and a lead paint inspection, if applicable. More frequent inspections may be required at the discretion of the Department.
(c) Prior to any substantial change in program or physical plant, the special education school shall give written notification of intent to change to the Department. i.e. "change to a more clinical model" Notice shall be given with sufficient time to allow the Department to assess the need for the proposed change and the effects of such change on the educational program. The Department shall provide response to the approved program within thirty days if such change may affect the approval status of the program.
(6) Public information and postings. Each approved special education school shall maintain on site and make available for public review the following:
(a) Program information including a statement of purpose, a general description of the educational program, an organizational chart, and tuition information;
(b) Documentation of the current approval and or licensing status;
(c) Documents granting authority to operate the school, including documents that fully identify ownership, and, as applicable, the names of officers, boards, charters, partnership agreements, articles of organization, and by-laws;
(d) All required policies and procedures; and
(e) First aid, medical, and emergency procedures. The special education school shall conspicuously post first aid and emergency procedures, including emergency telephone numbers and location of nearest telephones within each building.
(7) Educational staffing requirements. An approved special education school program shall meet the requirements of 603 CMR 18.00 related to staffing, staff training, and personnel policies and shall demonstrate that its organizational structure provides for the effective and efficient operation of the school, supervision of school staff, and supervision of students. The school staff shall at all times provide appropriate supervision of students while they are engaged in any school related activity on or off school grounds.
(a) At least one staff member shall be designated as the educational administrator for the program. The educational administrator shall either possess licensure as a special education administrator or as a special educator and shall have a minimum of a master's degree in special education or a related field; and shall have a minimum of one year of administrative experience. Such person shall be assigned to supervise the provision of special education services in the school and ensure that the services specified in each student's IEP are delivered. The educational administrator shall be relicensed pursuant to the requirements of 603 CMR 44.00 and shall be required to obtain supervisor approval of his/her Professional Development Plan pursuant to 603 CMR 44.04.
(b) Teaching staff shall have teaching licensure appropriate to meet the needs of the population served and which is provided pursuant to the licensure requirements under 603 CMR 7.00. Teaching staff shall be relicensed pursuant to the requirements of 603 CMR 44.00. For the purposes of relicensure, teaching staff shall be subject to the same requirements as teachers in Massachusetts public schools and shall be required to obtain supervisor approval of Professional Development Plans pursuant to 603 CMR 44.04. At least half of the teaching staff shall be licensed in special education areas appropriate to the population served at the school; other teaching staff may be licensed in other educational areas, in order to provide for content expertise in the general curriculum.
(c) The Department may require a higher proportion of licensed special educators if, in the opinion of the Department, the population requires more specialized services. To the extent that teaching staff is providing special education services, such services shall be provided, designed, or supervised by a special educator.
(d) Staff providing or supervising the provision of related services shall be appropriately certified or licensed in their professional areas. Require LICENSED COUNSELORS
(e) Instructional groupings and student/teacher ratios shall not exceed the class size standards set forth at 603 CMR 28.06(6) and (7). The Department may impose additional limits, if, in the opinion of the Department, the population requires more specialized services.
(f) The special education school shall have a written plan for staff orientation and training that is consistent with the needs of the student population and provides, on average, at least two hours per month of relevant training for all staff including non-professional staff. Initial staff orientation shall include provision for training in emergency procedures, behavior management procedures, and requirements related to student protections as provided in 603 CMR 28.09(12). The special education school shall maintain written documentation of training provided and staff attendance at training as well as documentation of training received outside of the school. Upon request, such documentation shall be readily available for review by the Department.
(8) Educational facilities and materials. Approved special education schools shall provide the facilities, textbooks, equipment, technology, materials, and supplies needed to provide the special education and related services specified on the IEPs of enrolled students. If specialized materials or equipment needed solely for an individual student are necessary, the special education school may enter into an agreement for the provision of such materials or equipment by the school district enrolling the student. Approved schools shall additionally meet all facility requirements of 603 CMR 18.00.
(9) Educational program requirements.
(a) All approved special education schools shall meet or exceed the student learning time requirements for public school students set forth at 603 CMR 27.00 and shall ensure that such requirements are met for individual students unless the student's IEP requires otherwise. In addition to meeting the student learning time requirements, all ten month programs must run a minimum of 180 school days; 11 month programs a minimum of 198 school days and 12 month programs a minimum of 216 school days exclusive of weekends, holidays, and vacations.
(b) Each approved special education school shall ensure that all teaching staff have an understanding and knowledge of the general curriculum expectations and learning standards of the Massachusetts Curriculum Frameworks and that such knowledge is incorporated into the educational programs of the special education school.
(c) All approved special education schools shall ensure that there are flexible procedures and mechanisms that maximize opportunities for enrolled students to gain the capacity to return to a less restrictive educational program. have to let the inmates out![/i] Such mechanisms may include, but are not limited to, a capacity for part-time attendance at a neighborhood public school or other community program or a period of transition from one program option to a less restrictive program option.
(d) All approved special education schools shall ensure that there are written procedures outlining how such schools will ensure that enrolled students also participate in state assessment programs in accordance with the assessment participation information provided on the student's IEP. Such procedures shall include how the approved school will provide for accommodations or alternate assessments when required.
(10) Student Records. Approved special education schools shall keep current and complete files for each publicly funded enrolled student and shall manage such files consistent with 603 CMR 23.00: Student Records and M.G.L. c. 71, § 34H.
(11) Policies and procedures. In addition to the written procedures required for residential schools by the state agency responsible for licensing residential programs providing childcare, and written procedures required by 603 CMR 18.00, all approved special education schools shall maintain on site a policies and procedures manual, and shall provide written notice to parents of enrolled students that copies of such policies or procedures are available on request. Policies and procedures shall additionally include the procedures required in 603 CMR 28.09(9) and emergency procedures, admissions procedures, behavior management procedures, procedures regarding suspension or termination of the student's placement, and orientation procedures for parents and students as required under 603 CMR 18.00 and the following:
(a) Personnel policies, including procedures for hiring, discipline, supervision, evaluation, handling complaints, and dismissal of staff. Procedures on hiring shall include a description of the steps the school will take to obtain, consider, and act upon information related to convictions for criminal offenses for any prospective staff members whose responsibilities bring them into direct contact with students in the school.
(b) If applicable, transportation procedures that ensure that vehicles are safe, insured, and operated by qualified and trained individuals, and that students are transported in a safe manner that is responsive to individual student's needs and provisions of their IEPs.
(12) Student Protections. Students shall be entitled to protections and standards in accordance with 603 CMR 18.00. In addition approved special education schools shall observe the following requirements:
(a) Serious Incidents - Immediate Notification and Reporting. In the event of serious injury or death of a student, criminal activity on the part of a student or staff member, or other serious incident affecting the well-being of any student, the approved special education school shall immediately notify, by telephone and by letter, the parents, the sending school district(s), any state agency involved in student care or program placement, and the Department of Education.
(b) Emergency termination of enrollment. The special education school shall not terminate the enrollment of any student, even in emergency circumstances, until the enrolling public school district is informed and assumes responsibility for the student. At the request of the public school district, the special education school shall delay termination of the student for up to two calendar weeks to allow the public school district the opportunity to convene an emergency Team meeting or to conduct other appropriate planning discussions prior to the student's termination from the special education school program. With the mutual agreement of the approved special education school and the public school district, termination of enrollment may be delayed for longer than two calendar weeks.
My god, the list of violations is staggering. Does anyone care to draft a formal letter to DOE outlining these violations as they relate to these specific rules? If I had time (to write a fucking novel!) I'd do it myself, but anyone who can draft it with careful attention to detail would be appreciated!
Any takers? I'll be happy to assist with editing and will submit the complaint to DOE...
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This is why I cautioned you to move slowly and build on a solid foundation, you are heading down a dead end path.
The regulations that are listed do not apply to ASR. They are not a Chapter 766 approved school. They are classified as Special Education by the state but they don’t fir the profile of Chapter 766 in many ways, one is that the majority of kids are not “special needs” children as defined by the state (I pointed this out earlier). Any parents interested just call the number at the bottom of this post and as to speak to Paul Renestoni (sp?), he will answer your questions.
Here is a list of Chapter 766 Approved Schools
Approved school
http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/speds.asp (http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/speds.asp)
http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/home.asp?mode=o&ot=2 (http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/home.asp?mode=o&ot=2)
Approved Private Special Educational Schools
These schools, established as, Massachusetts Chapter 766 Approved In-State Schools and Programs that Serve Publicly Funded Special Education Students, are private institutions serving students with disabilities when it has been determined that their needs cannot be accommodated locally.
The right for some public school students with disabilities to attend these schools was established by Chapter 766 of the Acts of 1972. The laws governing placement and tuition in these programs are now encompassed in Chapter 71B of the Massachusetts General Laws.
Approved Special Educational Schools, are monitored by the Department of Education's Program Quality Assurance Services Unit (781) 338-3700.
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Look closer Who.
A Child with special needs is a child who, because of a disability consisting of a developmental delay or an emotional, communication, specific learning impairment or combination thereof, is or would be unable to progress effectively in a regular school program.
Do these types of kids attend ASR? Whether or not they took a test is irrellavent.
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This is why I cautioned you to move slowly and build on a solid foundation. The regulations that are listed do not apply to ASR. They are not a Chapter 766 approved school. They are classified as Special Education by the state but they don’t fir the profile of Chapter 766 in many ways, one is that the majority of kids are not “special needs” children as defined by the state (I pointed this out earlier).
If parents reading here are interested just call the number at the bottom of this post and ask for Paul Renistoni (sp?)
Here is a list of Chapter 766 Approved Schools
Approved school
http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/speds.asp (http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/speds.asp)
http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/home.asp?mode=o&ot=2 (http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/home.asp?mode=o&ot=2)
Approved Private Special Educational Schools
These schools, established as, Massachusetts Chapter 766 Approved In-State Schools and Programs that Serve Publicly Funded Special Education Students, are private institutions serving students with disabilities when it has been determined that their needs cannot be accommodated locally.
The right for some public school students with disabilities to attend these schools was established by Chapter 766 of the Acts of 1972. The laws governing placement and tuition in these programs are now encompassed in Chapter 71B of the Massachusetts General Laws.
Approved Special Educational Schools, are monitored by the Department of Education's Program Quality Assurance Services Unit (781) 338-3700.
It's appears to be a mistake on the list. Both lists, for special education schools AND private schools omit ASR. So, are you willing to say ASR is not recognized by Massachusetts as any sort of school based on its absence from the private school list? If so, they are definitely a childcare facility (which it is clear they are anyway, but that's a different story...).
However, if you go to this page http://http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/home.asp?mode=ot&view=&mcasyear=2006&ot=2&o=2588 and select "Special Education School" in the left dropdown menu you can then select "Academy at Swift River" from the right dropdown menu - it's the first one on the list.
So, it's clear that ASR one, takes public funds for special needs kids, two, is classified as a Special Education School by the state and three, is grossly in violation of DOE policies and education law. We've established this and agree upon it. A quick call to the Department of Education's Program Quality Assurance Services Unit at (781) 338-3700 verifies that they are a Special Education School. That's settled.
Now the questions are surrounding the facts that they don't meet the requirements laid out by DOE, including, but not limited to being licensed as a residential childcare facility, employing licensed teachers at least half of which must be licensed as special ed, having no special ed program director and having no licensed counselors.
The complaint will be lodged with DOE and the chips will fall where they may...
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A note on public funding private school tuition in Massachusetts:
The only possible scenario under which the state can provide funds to pay for a private school is for special education for a disability. The private school is required by law to meet the special education standards of the state. There is no wiggle room here.
Therefore, ASR, by virtue of accepting state funds for a child's education, must meet state requirements for special education under 603 CMR 28.00: Special Education.
The criteria for a student's "disability" that applies to these special education kids is under 603 CMR 28.02 (definitions of conditions explicitly claimed to be treated by ASR on their website are bolded):
(7) Disability shall mean one or more of the following impairments:
(a) Autism - A developmental disability significantly affecting verbal and nonverbal communication and social interaction. The term shall have the meaning given it in federal law at 34 CFR §300.8(c)(1).
(b) Developmental Delay - The learning capacity of a young child (3-9 years old) is significantly limited, impaired, or delayed and is exhibited by difficulties in one or more of the following areas: receptive and/or expressive language; cognitive abilities; physical functioning; social, emotional, or adaptive functioning; and/or self-help skills.
(c) Intellectual Impairment - The permanent capacity for performing cognitive tasks, functions, or problem solving is significantly limited or impaired and is exhibited by more than one of the following: a slower rate of learning; disorganized patterns of learning; difficulty with adaptive behavior; and/or difficulty understanding abstract concepts. Such term shall include students with mental retardation.
(d) Sensory Impairment - The term shall include the following:
Hearing Impairment or Deaf - The capacity to hear, with amplification, is limited, impaired, or absent and results in one or more of the following: reduced performance in hearing acuity tasks; difficulty with oral communication; and/or difficulty in understanding auditorally-presented information in the education environment. The term includes students who are deaf and students who are hard-of-hearing.
Vision Impairment or Blind - The capacity to see, after correction, is limited, impaired, or absent and results in one or more of the following: reduced performance in visual acuity tasks; difficulty with written communication; and/or difficulty with understanding information presented visually in the education environment. The term includes students who are blind and students with limited vision.
Deafblind - Concomitant hearing and visual impairments, the combination of which causes severe communication and other developmental and educational needs.
(e) Neurological Impairment - The capacity of the nervous system is limited or impaired with difficulties exhibited in one or more of the following areas: the use of memory, the control and use of cognitive functioning, sensory and motor skills, speech, language, organizational skills, information processing, affect, social skills, or basic life functions. The term includes students who have received a traumatic brain injury.
(f) Emotional Impairment - As defined under federal law at 34 CFR §300.8(c)(4), the student exhibits one or more of the following characteristics over a long period of time and to a marked degree that adversely affects educational performance: an inability to learn that cannot be explained by intellectual, sensory, or health factors; an inability to build or maintain satisfactory interpersonal relationships with peers and teachers; inappropriate types of behavior or feelings under normal circumstances; a general pervasive mood of unhappiness or depression; or a tendency to develop physical symptoms or fears associated with personal or school problems. The determination of disability shall not be made solely because the student's behavior violates the school's discipline code, because the student is involved with a state court or social service agency, or because the student is socially maladjusted, unless the Team determines that the student has a serious emotional disturbance.
(g) Communication Impairment - The capacity to use expressive and/or receptive language is significantly limited, impaired, or delayed and is exhibited by difficulties in one or more of the following areas: speech, such as articulation and/or voice; conveying, understanding, or using spoken, written, or symbolic language. The term may include a student with impaired articulation, stuttering, language impairment, or voice impairment if such impairment adversely affects the student's educational performance.
(h) Physical Impairment - The physical capacity to move, coordinate actions, or perform physical activities is significantly limited, impaired, or delayed and is exhibited by difficulties in one or more of the following areas: physical and motor tasks; independent movement; performing basic life functions. The term shall include severe orthopedic impairments or impairments caused by congenital anomaly, cerebral palsy, amputations, and fractures, if such impairment adversely affects a student's educational performance.
(i) Health Impairment - A chronic or acute health problem such that the physiological capacity to function is significantly limited or impaired and results in one or more of the following: limited strength, vitality, or alertness including a heightened alertness to environmental stimuli resulting in limited alertness with respect to the educational environment. The term shall include health impairments due to asthma, attention deficit disorder or attention deficit with hyperactivity disorder, diabetes, epilepsy, a heart condition, hemophilia, lead poisoning, leukemia, nephritis, rheumatic fever, and sickle cell anemia, if such health impairment adversely affects a student's educational performance.
(j) Specific Learning Disability - The term means a disorder in one or more of the basic psychological processes involved in understanding or in using language, spoken or written, that may manifest itself in an imperfect ability to listen, think speak, read, write, spell, or to do mathematical calculations.
So, as is clearly illustrated, by the state's definition ASR takes "disabled" children, clearly claims to have the expertise to treat and educate disabled children, accepts children from public school systems and takes compensation from the state for them.
This means they must meet all of the requirements under the law governing special education, of which they meet almost none, most especially those surrounding qualified, licensed teachers, of which they have exactly none.
Due to this fact, they are in violation of educational law.
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It's appears to be a mistake on the list. Both lists, for special education schools AND private schools omit ASR. So, are you willing to say ASR is not recognized by Massachusetts as any sort of school based on its absence from the private school list? If so, they are definitely a childcare facility (which it is clear they are anyway, but that's a different story...).
No, not really stating that. As I reviewed the schools listed under special education schools I noticed the following:
I did what you suggested which was :
However, if you go to this page http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/home.asp?m ... t=2&o=2588 (http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/home.asp?mode=ot&view=&mcasyear=2006&ot=2&o=2588) and select "Special Education School" in the left dropdown menu you can then select "Academy at Swift River" from the right dropdown menu - it's the first one on the list.
Now try going to the next school ,Amego School (or choose some schools at random) and you will notice at the bottom of the page “Special Education Approved Program: Has Program. Most schools have this “Approved status” which means they are 766 approved. ASR does not have this, I don’t think this is a mistake. ASR is clearly not set up to take “Special needs” children as defined here and by the state of Massachusetts and do not have to abide by the regulations that you stated.
I believe ASR is classified as a Private Boarding school without special needs. If a complaint is filed it will force the issue and we will find out how they are classified. Probably the best way to resolve this difference in perspective.
I find this interesting, though, it seems they don’t have a category for TBS’s in Massachusetts and are sort of classified as a hybrid between special needs and boarding school. I think a big step will be to determine which rules they need to adhere to. I believe the ones being posted here do not apply but a complaint will clear up the matter.
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ASR is clearly not set up to take “Special needs” children as defined here and by the state of Massachusetts and do not have to abide by the regulations that you stated.
Yes or no Who, do they or do they not take these kinds of kids?
A Child with special needs is a child who, because of a disability consisting of a developmental delay or an emotional, communication, specific learning impairment or combination thereof, is or would be unable to progress effectively in a regular school program.
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Yes or no Who, do they or do they not take these kinds of kids?
I just don’t know the full answer to that Ha,Ha,Ha,……. I mean they clearly cater to students with special needs but whether that translates into the definition of a “Special needs” student as defined by the state of Massachusetts, I just don’t know the answer.
I think this is one of the items the state of Massachusetts is struggling with. ASR is a cross (Hybrid if you will) between a private boarding school, mental heath facility and special ed school. This why they are in limbo when it comes to classification.
Its sort of an interesting position to be in.
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Yes or no Who, do they or do they not take these kinds of kids?
I just don’t know the full answer to that Ha,Ha,Ha,……. I mean they clearly cater to students with special needs but whether that translates into the definition of a “Special needs” student as defined by the state of Massachusetts, I just don’t know the answer.
I think this is one of the items the state of Massachusetts is struggling with. ASR is a cross (Hybrid if you will) between a private boarding school, mental heath facility and special ed school. This why they are in limbo when it comes to classification.
Its sort of an interesting position to be in.
If thats true why did they claim to be a special needs school that could operate without regulation due to the 30% rule?
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Yes or no Who, do they or do they not take these kinds of kids?
I just don’t know the full answer to that Ha,Ha,Ha,……. I mean they clearly cater to students with special needs but whether that translates into the definition of a “Special needs” student as defined by the state of Massachusetts, I just don’t know the answer.
I think this is one of the items the state of Massachusetts is struggling with. ASR is a cross (Hybrid if you will) between a private boarding school, mental heath facility and special ed school. This why they are in limbo when it comes to classification.
Its sort of an interesting position to be in.
If thats true why did they claim to be a special needs school that could operate without regulation due to the 30% rule?
They still claim to be and have always said they are a special needs school..but does this meet the same definition as the state of Massachusetts? Doesnt seem like it.... they are also a private boarding school...Ha,Ha,Ha, .. Hybrid? Seems like it. A special ed school under massachusetts law requires a school to be exclusively special ed students (ASR is not).... a little tricky to define
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I am a parent who has been googling for three straight weeks trying to find a place for my son.
Thank you for this information. I will avoid ASR and similar "special schools".
The poster called TheWho is what scared me off, you all should know most parents are not like him and his words actually work against these programs.
Thank you again everyone for the time you give to this cause.
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I am a parent who has been googling for three straight weeks trying to find a place for my son.
Thank you for this information. I will avoid ASR and similar "special schools".
The poster called TheWho is what scared me off, you all should know most parents are not like him and his words actually work against these programs.
Thank you again everyone for the time you give to this cause.
Thank you for recognizing the difference between "special needs" and special schools, guest.
and people here at fornits claim I dont help kids....this post is a keeper!
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Yes or no Who, do they or do they not take these kinds of kids?
I just don’t know the full answer to that Ha,Ha,Ha,……. I mean they clearly cater to students with special needs but whether that translates into the definition of a “Special needs” student as defined by the state of Massachusetts, I just don’t know the answer.
I think this is one of the items the state of Massachusetts is struggling with. ASR is a cross (Hybrid if you will) between a private boarding school, mental heath facility and special ed school. This why they are in limbo when it comes to classification.
Its sort of an interesting position to be in.
What's really interesting to me, and apparently this parent who is looking for a placement, is that ASR doesn't meet the minimum requirements to be a private school, a Special Edcation School or a mental health facility.
They're basically not qualified to do anything lawfully. This is why they are avoiding regulation by EEC, DMH and federal DOE.
-no special ed teachers or administrators - none
-no licensed teachers
-no licensed counselors
-no student rights under federal law (mail screening, cut off communication, physical punishments, etc)
With these qualifications, ASR really shouldn't be working with any type of kid.
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I am a parent who has been googling for three straight weeks trying to find a place for my son.
Thank you for this information. I will avoid ASR and similar "special schools".
The poster called TheWho is what scared me off, you all should know most parents are not like him and his words actually work against these programs.
Thank you again everyone for the time you give to this cause.
You're welcome. Good luck with your son. Any facility that has an unlicensed program, unlicensed teachers and is unregulated by state authority should be strictly avoided, as NOBODY will be looking out for or protecting your child's legal rights and welfare.
ASR, obviously, should be avoided like the plague.
There are plenty of small, well-structured traditional boarding schools out there that operate lawfully where your child can see a local licensed therapist as needed. "TBS's" simply offer the worst of all worlds - bad education, bad "treatment", bad environment.
Yes, you're correct about TheWho. It has been noted by several other parents actively shopping for programs and believing in the concept that his comments/excuses/cover-ups have frightened them and steered them away from programs. This is why he's allowed to stay and post his twisted thoughts - he's a walking anti-program billboard.
And, yes, we also know that most parents are not like him (failed TBS experience, shattered relationship with his kid and still pushing the program that failed his child so miserably). Again, good luck. Check back if you need any advice or information or just to let us know how you made out...
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When the personal attacks start it is a sure sign they are short on facts. You left out that most of the kids are tortured and left in isolation for days with no food or water. The majority of kids are missing digits when they return home…. Ha,Ha,Ha, They have no licensed pilots or licensed plumbers on site either. I also noticed not one employee is licensed to teach scuba diving…this is awful… shut them all down.
If I was reading this stuff, I would call the school…. This is why I love fornits so much. The stories are so outrageous that parents are saying, what the heck is going on… and end up calling the school for clarification or call the
Department of Education's Program Quality Assurance Services Unit (781) 338-3700. even if they are not considering placement, they call out of curiosity, you got to love the information age because you cant fool people for too long.
I am glad you let me stick around, I just got my invitation in the mail to post for another year here…how about you…Ha,Ha,Ha,
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When the personal attacks start it is a sure sign they are short on facts. You left out that most of the kids are tortured and left in isolation for days with no food or water. The majority of kids are missing digits when they return home…. Ha,Ha,Ha, They have no licensed pilots or licensed plumbers on site either. I also noticed not one employee is licensed to teach scuba diving…this is awful… shut them all down.
When TheWho's sarcastic comments start in it is a sure sign he is short on facts.
If I was reading this stuff, I would call the school….
By all means call them, let us know what they say.
This is why I love fornits so much. The stories are so outrageous that parents are saying, what the heck is going on… and end up calling the school for clarification or call the
Department of Education's Program Quality Assurance Services Unit (781) 338-3700.
Which of course only validates what we are saying.
even if they are not considering placement, they call out of curiosity, you got to love the information age because you cant fool people for too long.
Which is why so many of these programs are being forced to become properly licensed. You can't fool people for too long.
I am glad you let me stick around, I just got my invitation in the mail to post for another year here…how about you…Ha,Ha,Ha,
We all have a standing invitation to post here as we are all honest about things. You will be allowed to post here so long as you remaining entertaining and continue to disuade parents from placing their kids in your program.
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Sorry, you must have missed the facts posted above. Here they are again:
They're basically not qualified to do anything lawfully. This is why they are avoiding regulation by EEC, DMH and federal DOE.
-no special ed teachers or administrators - none
-no licensed teachers
-no licensed counselors
-no student rights under federal law (mail screening, cut off communication, physical punishments, etc)
With these qualifications, ASR really shouldn't be working with any type of kid.
Facts are facts. No need to try to shift the focus or to post some hyperbole that nobody else stated.
Just stick to the facts:
-no special ed teachers or administrators - none
-no licensed teachers
-no licensed counselors
-no student rights under federal law (mail screening, cut off communication, physical punishments, etc)
These facts alone are bad enough. No need to make up stories about pilots and plumbers :roll:
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And like I said, you can believe people here on fornits or you can call the school or Department of Education's Program Quality Assurance Services Unit (781) 338-3700
I wouldn’t decide to place or not place a child solely based on what you hear at fornits or a web site… get the facts
..
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Please by all means, enlighten us as to what you believe to be the facts in this situation.
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And like I said, you can believe people here on fornits or you can call the school or Department of Education's Program Quality Assurance Services Unit (781) 338-3700
I wouldn’t decide to place or not place a child solely based on what you hear at fornits or a web site… get the facts
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I called this number and asked if ASR has any teachers holding licenses to teach. I gave the names of their teachers from ASR's website one by one. The answer was "no license" for every one of them. I also asked if they have any licensed special ed teachers - "no". Special ed administrator? - "no".
That's all I need to know about a so-called "school". That was helpful. Thanks.
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So they dont have any licensed Special ed teachers.... This is why I encourage everyone to call for themselves because you hear half truths here.
Yes they dont have any licensed special ed teachers beacuse they dont have any special ed teachers....Ha,Ha,Ha, just like they dont have any licensed pilots...Ha,Ha,Ha,
Did they ask if they had licensed counselors? Didnt hear that one...we all know they do...... they are handing you bull here.
Call the school yourself or call:
Department of Education's Program Quality Assurance Services Unit (781) 338-3700.
..
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So they dont have any licensed Special ed teachers.... This is why I encourage everyone to call for themselves because you hear half truths here.
Yes they dont have any licensed special ed teachers beacuse they dont have any special ed teachers....Ha,Ha,Ha, just like they dont have any licensed pilots...Ha,Ha,Ha,
Did they ask if they had licensed counselors? Didnt hear that one...we all know they do...... they are handing you bull here.
Call the school yourself or call:
Department of Education's Program Quality Assurance Services Unit (781) 338-3700.
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We've been through all this once before Cindy. We already know they don't have any licensed counselors on regular staff. What they do have is three licensed social workers providing therapy for 100+ kids.
They are:
Francis Bartolomeo-Director of Counseling-Licensed Social Worker
Tanya Beecher- Clinical Counselor-Licensed Social Worker
Sabrina Herman-Clinical Counselor-Licensed Social Worker
According to the DoE ASR is a special needs school that is unlicensed by them. They are able to avoid licensure thanks to the 30% law they worked so hard to enact. Of course now the population of ASR's kids with special needs is much higher than 30% so it looks like the next step is to calls the EEC. According to the woman I spoke with at DoE in such a case as ASR's where they remain unlicensed, it is up to each kids district (including out of state) to ensure that all standards are being met by ASR and all laws being obeyed.
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As a hypothetical situation. Lets say a small place opened on Boston and it served bagels and coffee. You could also read the many books they had around the Shoppe and purchase them or they would lend them to you to take home for a few days. The citys regulations state that a restaurant needs to have a minimum of 5 tables and this place doesn’t. Another person says they need to have a licensed librarian in order to lend books to the public. Another person says they should be a book store who serves food.
Which agency should they report to? Are they an evil place because they are fighting hiring a librarian? They are a great café that contributes to the neighborhood, people benefit from their services…there is no need to push to shut them down, it would be unjust.
ASR is in a similar situation:
In the state of Massachusetts they don’t have a category for Therapeutic boarding schools. So ASR fits partially under “Private Boarding school” , “Mental health facility”, “Special ed school” etc. but don’t need to adhere to all the requirements of all the categories.
Everyone is throwing around requirements like special ed teachers, how many licensed counselors do they need etc.
We need to look closely at the regulations and how they apply to each situation and school. This is why I refer to the State department because they have looked into it…..
Give them a call if you have any concerns
Department of Education's Program Quality Assurance Services Unit (781) 338-3700.
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Yes, they have no licensed special ed teachers which puts them in violation of the law because they take state funds for disabled children, which requires licensed special ed teachers - just another violation in a long list.
I noticed you skipped over the fact that they have no licensed teachers of any kind, special ed or "regular" teachers. When you carefully omit things you'd rather not have scrutinized it makes you look even worse.
Please save your analogies. No analogy is needed because it is a simple fact that ASR's teachers are all unlicensed, as verified by a quick call to the number you keep repeating. It's not that deep.
If this makes you angry and upset, take it up with ASR - they're the one's shortchanging the families, not me. Demand that they hire qualified licensed teachers!
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We already have Cindy. Maybe its time you gave them a call and found out the truth for yourself.
Before you do that though let's take a look at your stupid analogy.
As a hypothetical situation. Lets say a small place opened on Boston and it served bagels and coffee. You could also read the many books they had around the Shoppe and purchase them or they would lend them to you to take home for a few days. The citys regulations state that a restaurant needs to have a minimum of 5 tables and this place doesn’t. Another person says they need to have a licensed librarian in order to lend books to the public. Another person says they should be a book store who serves food.
Which agency should they report to? Are they an evil place because they are fighting hiring a librarian? They are a great café that contributes to the neighborhood, people benefit from their services…there is no need to push to shut them down, it would be unjust.
Let's say your bagel shop/library has had some complaints made to the health department concerning cleanliness.
Under your analogy the health inspector would show up only to be escorted off the property.
"What are you talking about? We aren't a resturant so you can't inspect us. We're just your run of the mill library, nothing more. Bagel shop? That's crazy talk!"
Once the health inspector leaves however its back to the oven to make some more of those disgusting bagels.
ASR is attempting to avoid regulation by claiming they have a foot in both camps, thus they dont fit into any classifcation. The reality however is they should be regulated by every agency that regulates the things they claim to be.
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Yes, they have no licensed special ed teachers which puts them in violation of the law because they take state funds for disabled children, which requires licensed special ed teachers - just another violation in a long list.
I noticed you skipped over the fact that they have no licensed teachers of any kind, special ed or "regular" teachers. When you carefully omit things you'd rather not have scrutinized it makes you look even worse.
Please save your analogies. No analogy is needed because it is a simple fact that ASR's teachers are all unlicensed, as verified by a quick call to the number you keep repeating. It's not that deep.
If this makes you angry and upset, take it up with ASR - they're the one's shortchanging the families, not me. Demand that they hire qualified licensed teachers!
Sorry I made you look bad but it is your own doing. The school is a hybrid and doesnt fall into one category. They have licensed personel, I have proved this numerous times here on fornits. They serve a special service to struggling teens. The state knows that ASR doesnt fit underneath one department neatly and therefore has given latitude. If there are concerns I suggest to call the source directly and have them field your questions
One option is to call the school directly:
http://www.swiftriver.com/ (http://www.swiftriver.com/)
Another is to ask the State (DOE)
Department of Education's Program Quality Assurance Services Unit (781) 338-3700.
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Sorry, but you're not telling the truth.
ASR has not a single licensed teacher.
No matter how you stamp your feet or throw tantrums or try to wish it away, it won't go away.
Your statement just isn't supported by the facts. Try to deflect as you may with analogies or temper tantrums, you've been proven wrong and you can't provide a single shred of evidence to support your claim. ASR simply doesn't employ qualified licensed teachers and nothing you can say here will change that fact.
You should take it up with ASR and demand that they hire qualified licensed teachers! They're the only ones who can change this troubling reality...
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Sorry I made you look bad but it is your own doing.
You haven't made anyone look bad. You're a blind fool and too prideful to realize it.
The school is a hybrid and doesnt fall into one category.
A hybrid of what? How does being a hybrid allow ASR to avoid all regulation? If they truly are a hybrid why did they file for exemption from a special needs school under the 30% rule?
They have licensed personel, I have proved this numerous times here on fornits.
:rofl: No you didn't. The information on the few staff members who are licensed as anything were provided by us. You simply tried to take credit for it.
They serve a special service to struggling teens.
So youre now acknowledging that they do in fact provide special needs to special needs kids. Good you agree with the DoE then.
The state knows that ASR doesnt fit underneath one department neatly and therefore has given latitude.
Really? Then why did the OCCS fight with them so much nine years ago and claim they needed to become properly licensed. That doesnt sound like giving much latitude to me.
If there are concerns I suggest to call the source directly and have them field your questions
One option is to call the school directly:
.
Why? We already know they wont be honest with us.
Another is to ask the State (DOE)
Department of Education's Program Quality Assurance Services Unit (781) 338-3700.
Several of us already have Cindy. They've informed us that ASR is operating an unlicensed and unregulated special needs program. They have no licensed teachers on staff and apparently no licensed therapist either.
Now we understand this makes you angry and upset but remember, you did this to yourself. Ha ha ha, just kidding. Not really.
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You should take it up with ASR and demand that they hire qualified licensed teachers! They're the only ones who can change this troubling reality...
I think we found some common ground Ha,Ha,Ha,... a little hard to see though, but it there.
All kidding aside folks, like the guest said we need to defer to the ones who know and take it up with them...
Call the school or the state DOE.
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You should take it up with ASR and demand that they hire qualified licensed teachers! They're the only ones who can change this troubling reality...
I think we found some common ground Ha,Ha,Ha,... a little hard to see though, but it there.
All kidding aside folks, like the guest said we need to defer to the ones who know and take it up with them...
Call the school or the state DOE.
Call the DOE. They have no reason to lie. ASR needs to protect its revenue stream and will lie to do it. Check with DOE.
I checked with DOE and they verified that no teachers at ASR hold a license to teach.
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Well with that matter settled and it firmly established that ASR is not regulated by the DoE and has no licensed teachers the best course of action I would think to be contacting the EEC. Clearly ASR will no longer be able to apply for exemption under the 30% rule and once regulation is forced upon them licensed teachers will become a requirement.
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You should take it up with ASR and demand that they hire qualified licensed teachers! They're the only ones who can change this troubling reality...
I think we found some common ground Ha,Ha,Ha,... a little hard to see though, but it there.
All kidding aside folks, like the guest said we need to defer to the ones who know and take it up with them...
Call the school or the state DOE.
Call the DOE. They have no reason to lie. ASR needs to protect its revenue stream and will lie to do it. Check with DOE.
I checked with DOE and they verified that no teachers at ASR hold a license to teach.
Let me hit the horse one more time!!
I think we are all in consensus... Call the DOE
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Done.
No licensed teachers at ASR.
Not licensed by the DOE.
Call them yourself and verify.
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Has anybody tried to get the three departments involved in licensure where ASR is apparently violating requirements to get their heads together? That is, to each assign someone specifically to the case, then get them in touch with each other. I guess the best way to do this would be to get each department to give you a name of who you can call back on this matter. Say, "Can I get your first name? Can I ask for you if I call back about this?"
Then I guess the thing to do is when you call back each of the three places is to give the first name of the other guys and their numbers.
The trick is at any single one of the numbers to first get a guy willing to work with the other two agencies--because he will be the one to give the other two numbers and first names to. Your first name folks are going to be the ones just answering the phones. You get buy in from even one agency to start with, and he/she can get past the front line phone stage at the other two agencies.
The agencies have been going at ASR one at a time. If they have three enforcement people from all possible departments going after ASR all at the same time, then it makes it very likely that they can all make immediate headway with a judge and get a feather in their professional caps.
I figure if all three go to the judge at the same time, odds are pretty high that he'll order ASR to comply with licensure requirements for at least two of them--if not all three.
ASR's position is that it doesn't need a license from any. Legally, the countervailing argument--that it needs a license from all--may make just as much sense within the wording of the law. Don't know for sure, I'm not a lawyer, I haven't read the laws or the existing case law on them.
Get three bureaucrats from each agency in front of the same judge, pointing out that ASR isn't licensed by anybody, and there's a good chance they can get the judge mad enough to throw the book at ASR.
Which would, of course, be a crying shame. Not.
Julie[/i]
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Has anybody tried to get the three departments involved in licensure where ASR is apparently violating requirements to get their heads together? That is, to each assign someone specifically to the case, then get them in touch with each other. I guess the best way to do this would be to get each department to give you a name of who you can call back on this matter. Say, "Can I get your first name? Can I ask for you if I call back about this?"
Then I guess the thing to do is when you call back each of the three places is to give the first name of the other guys and their numbers.
The trick is at any single one of the numbers to first get a guy willing to work with the other two agencies--because he will be the one to give the other two numbers and first names to. Your first name folks are going to be the ones just answering the phones. You get buy in from even one agency to start with, and he/she can get past the front line phone stage at the other two agencies.
The agencies have been going at ASR one at a time. If they have three enforcement people from all possible departments going after ASR all at the same time, then it makes it very likely that they can all make immediate headway with a judge and get a feather in their professional caps.
I figure if all three go to the judge at the same time, odds are pretty high that he'll order ASR to comply with licensure requirements for at least two of them--if not all three.
ASR's position is that it doesn't need a license from any. Legally, the countervailing argument--that it needs a license from all--may make just as much sense within the wording of the law. Don't know for sure, I'm not a lawyer, I haven't read the laws or the existing case law on them.
Get three bureaucrats from each agency in front of the same judge, pointing out that ASR isn't licensed by anybody, and there's a good chance they can get the judge mad enough to throw the book at ASR.
Which would, of course, be a crying shame. Not.
Julie[/i]
Thinking out loud along the same lines, one approach is to look at the multiple agencies and see what they have in common and then enforce those regulations first (the ones that apply to all agencies). Basic stuff like heat, fire escapes, nutrition etc.
I don’t think the agencies are in a position or would want to try to get a judge mad about anything. From a professional point of view the judge would want to do what is right and makes sense considering all of the circumstances. Problems like this come up all the time.
But a good step (1st step) in the right direction is to get everyone involved……
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Has anybody tried to get the three departments involved in licensure where ASR is apparently violating requirements to get their heads together? That is, to each assign someone specifically to the case, then get them in touch with each other. I guess the best way to do this would be to get each department to give you a name of who you can call back on this matter. Say, "Can I get your first name? Can I ask for you if I call back about this?"
Then I guess the thing to do is when you call back each of the three places is to give the first name of the other guys and their numbers.
The trick is at any single one of the numbers to first get a guy willing to work with the other two agencies--because he will be the one to give the other two numbers and first names to. Your first name folks are going to be the ones just answering the phones. You get buy in from even one agency to start with, and he/she can get past the front line phone stage at the other two agencies.
The agencies have been going at ASR one at a time. If they have three enforcement people from all possible departments going after ASR all at the same time, then it makes it very likely that they can all make immediate headway with a judge and get a feather in their professional caps.
I figure if all three go to the judge at the same time, odds are pretty high that he'll order ASR to comply with licensure requirements for at least two of them--if not all three.
ASR's position is that it doesn't need a license from any. Legally, the countervailing argument--that it needs a license from all--may make just as much sense within the wording of the law. Don't know for sure, I'm not a lawyer, I haven't read the laws or the existing case law on them.
Get three bureaucrats from each agency in front of the same judge, pointing out that ASR isn't licensed by anybody, and there's a good chance they can get the judge mad enough to throw the book at ASR.
Which would, of course, be a crying shame. Not.
Julie[/i]
Julie, first let me say I'm not knocking you, but tone gets confused on message boards...
What you say sounds like a great idea on paper, but, the fact of the matter is that ASR has been allowed to avoid the rules for so long because the civil servants who have the power to exercise control just don't care enough to do the work and enforce the rules.
In the case of HLA, nothing was done for over four years with diligent, detailed complaints submitted in a steady stream. ORS didn't move until they had their third director in that time period - then the action was swift.
In the case of Ivy Ridge, there were dozens of complaints over many years to NYS DoE and nothing was done. When the attorney general stepped in, action was very swift and decisive.
So, it's not that people aren't bringing the information to the right people in the right agencies, it's that they are just not acting. they don't say they won't or will, they just do nothing. If you call and talk to an investigator they say "We're aware and we're looking into it" - then nothing.
Anyway, there's a thread for useful contacts for ASR oversight. Feel free to look into the contacts there and to be the next person demanding answers. Hopefully we'll reach critical mass soon, if not through state officials then through public pressure and/or lawsuits.
Bottom line is that ASR fails to meet even the minimum requirements for a private school, Special Education School (their state classification) or RTC/RCF. They couldn't get licensed or approved by the state to do any of these functions, but they are allowed to operate because they misrepresent themselves to each agency and all of the people who can force oversight just point the finger at eachother saying "They're responsible, not us!"
Help us chip away at their ignorance by calling and writing. eventually someone will have to take action...
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http://www.doe.mass.edu/lawsregs/603cmr ... section=01[/url]
[Note of clarification- This is Congress's definition. A child DOES NOT have to have a diagnosis in order to qualify as "emotionally disturbed" and receive "special ed/services".][/color]
Under the I.D.E.A. an emotionally disturbed child, like a child with any other disability, is entitled to a “free appropriate public education” which includes not only individualized special education, but also related services “as may be required to assist a child with a disability to benefit from special education.”8
Explicitly included in the statute as examples of supportive related services are psychological services, social work services and counseling services.9
Psychological services are defined by the applicable federal regulations to include:
(i) Administering psychological and educational test, and other assessment procedures;
(ii) Interpreting assessment results;
(iii) Obtaining, integrating, and interpreting information about child behavior and conditions relating to learning;
(iv) Consulting with other staff members in planning school programs to meet the special needs of children as indicated by psychological tests, interviews, and behavioral evaluations;
(v) Planning and managing a program of psychological services, including psychological counseling for children and parents; and
(vi) Assisting in developing positive behavioral intervention strategies.10
Listed in the federal regulations as examples of social work services are: (i) Preparing a social or developmental history on a child with a disability; (ii) Group and individual counseling with the child and family;
(iii) Working in partnership with parents and others on those problems in a child’sliving situation (home, school, and community) that affect the child’sadjustment in school;
(iv) Mobilizing school and community resources to enable the child to learn aseffectively as possible in his or her educational program; and
(v) Assisting in developing positive behavioral intervention strategies.11
According to federal standards counseling services can be provided by “qualified social workers, psychologists, guidance counselors, or other qualified personnel.”12
The statutory language of the I.D.E.A. and of the associated federal regulations unambiguously includes psychological services as a related service to be provided if required for a child with a disability, including emotional disturbance, to benefit from special education.
III. JUDICIAL INTERPRETATION
Though there is no direct U.S. Supreme Court authority on the issue, federal courts consistently have supported the provision of psychological services to children with disabilities as required related services in accordance with the statutory language of the I.D.E.A. State regulations attempting to classify psychological services outside the definition of related serviceshave been invalidated by courts as superceded by inconsistent language in the federal I.D.E.A.13
In assuring psychological treatment and education for emotionally disturbed children, the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled, “The concept of education under the [I.D.E.A.] clearly embodies both academic instruction and a broad range of associated services traditionally grouped under the general rubric of ‘treatment.’ Any attempt to distinguish academics from treatment when defining ‘educational placement’ runs counter to the clear language of the [I.D.E.A.].”14“
Educational benefit is not limited to academic needs, but includes the social and emotional needs that affect academic progress, school behavior, and socialization.”15
The First Circuit Court of Appeals reiterated, “A school district’s special education program must include psychological services if [the child’s] emotional disturbances interfere with his ability to learn.”16
The Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals expressed its high regard for psychological services when it stated, “Psychological services are . . . often essential if a plan is to have any realistic chance of facilitating education.”
A child attending school in the Ninth Circuit qualified for extensive psychological services because his “social, emotional, medical and educational needs [were] not severable and [were] intertwined.”24 His depression “adversely affected his educational performance, including his social withdrawal and non-participation in classroom discussion.”25
A Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals case affirmed the psychiatric educational placement of an emotionally disturbed child because his “main learning problem” was his “inability to cooperate with authority.”
http://tinyurl.com/26e44e (http://tinyurl.com/26e44e)
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Looking back at the café that is lending books to her customers. For the café owner to fight the law that says she needs to hire a full time librarian doesn’t mean she is evil or avoiding responsibility. The café owner doesn’t see the value to her customers, she would have to raise prices to pay her salary and adhere to regulations that don’t do justice to her clientele. I am sure there would be a few fringe groups outside protesting and saying she needs a balanced selection of books, that she avoiding regulation because she wants to brain wash the community into reading what she decides. But bottom line there is no category for the store she has so you really cant fault either side. You make a compromise and focus on more important issues.
In the case of ASR, it seems the state has the control and has dropped the ball. They have a duty to determine what regulations apply and redefine them if necessary. If they sat down and defined regulations specific to TBS’s then both side would be happy. ASR should not be expected to conform to regulations that don’t apply just because someone doesn’t want to define appropriate regulations.
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Looking back at the café that is lending books to her customers. For the café owner to fight the law that says she needs to hire a full time librarian doesn’t mean she is evil or avoiding responsibility. The café owner doesn’t see the value to her customers, she would have to raise prices to pay her salary and adhere to regulations that don’t do justice to her clientele. I am sure there would be a few fringe groups outside protesting and saying she needs a balanced selection of books, that she avoiding regulation because she wants to brain wash the community into reading what she decides. But bottom line there is no category for the store she has so you really cant fault either side. You make a compromise and focus on more important issues.
In the case of ASR, it seems the state has the control and has dropped the ball. They have a duty to determine what regulations apply and redefine them if necessary. If they sat down and defined regulations specific to TBS’s then both side would be happy. ASR should not be expected to conform to regulations that don’t apply just because someone doesn’t want to define appropriate regulations.
Again this is a stupid analogy, but once again lets look at it terms more appropriate to ASR.
So we've already had the health inspector come by only to be escorted off the property under the repeated claims by your benevolent propetier that it was simply a library she was running. No resturant, no health inspector.
Next week a represenative from the county comes by. He lets her know all public libraries come under the jurisidiction of the county, and she would need to either cease lending books out or turn over her operation to the county. She explains that she only has 300 books in stock and thus is qualified to apply for an exemption. The county rep agrees and leaves her in peace. A few years later her business has grown considerably and she now has 30,000 books which she lends out. The same rep comes back and says,
"You no longer qualify for the exemption, you'll have to either cease lending books to the general public, or turn over your operation to us."
"No no no", she replies. "This isn't a library, it's a resturant with just a few books lying around. This is strickly a bagel shop."
Clearly she's trying to have it both ways, no different then what ASR is doing.
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No special regs necessary. Read the above.
Here's the bottomline.
EEC says any residential program offering special education services OR social/psych/self-help skills must be licensed.
EEC defers to State Law to define "special needs/services", "emotional disturbance" and "disabled".
State Law defers to IDEA for a definition.
Based on IDEA (Congress's) definitions (which don't require a diagnosis), and the list of disorders ASR markets that it treats, every child at ASR is "disabled"- has special needs and is receiving special services.
The overwhelming majority are there due “inability to cooperate with authority". OR because their depression or __________ (fill in the blank), “adversely affected his educational performance, including his social withdrawal and non-participation in classroom discussion.”
I suspect this has something to do with the 30% issues and ASR some how snowing the state about this issue. And if it's a matter of the state rep being unable to interpret the law, someone in a higher position needs to be brought in to clarify. ASR needs to be required to hand over the records of the clients so the state can accurately assess what services are provided.
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I think pretty much anyone could fit under the Congress’s definition. I still contend that the majority of the kids at ASR do not have IEP’s with the state that they come from and are not receiving services there or in Massachusetts as define “Special needs” student. ASR may need to be licensed but as what?
Mental heath facility?
Private boarding school?
Special education school?
RTC?
We all have our opinions and can site regulations for each category as defined by the state but until the state of Massachusetts defines where ASR belongs or creates a new category ASR will continue to be a hybrid school reporting to no one (to no fault of their own). This is the states responsibility, they have had almost 10 years to come to a decision and define ASR, but they have not.
Out of frustration we can blame the school but the responsibility lands squarely on the shoulders of the state to come up with a set of regulations which define TBS’s and enforce the rules through monitoring and follow-up, none of which has been done.
We can cut and paste regulations until the cows come home but until the state defines what ASR is, then they don’t apply. In one area they say they are a “special school”, but they are not approved by the state as defined so the regulations don’t apply,
The state needs to do some work………….
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We all have our opinions and can site regulations for each category as defined by the state but until the state of Massachusetts defines where ASR belongs or creates a new category ASR will continue to be a hybrid school reporting to no one (to no fault of their own). This is the states responsibility, they have had almost 10 years to come to a decision and define ASR, but they have not.
Out of frustration we can blame the school but the responsibility lands squarely on the shoulders of the state to come up with a set of regulations which define TBS’s and enforce the rules through monitoring and follow-up, none of which has been done.
Yet you still continue to ignore the fact that ASR acknowledged they were a special needs school but they were exempt due to the 30% rule. Since the population of kids that fit the definition of special needs at ASR is now higher than 30% they should be subject to licensure and regulation.
No hybrids, no exemptions. They are in clear violation of the law and will soon be held accountable.
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ASR is classified by the state as a "Special Education School" by the state. That much is clear.
What is also clear is that they don't meet the requirements to be an "Approved Special Education School" and therefore aren't on the approved list and don't have "has approved program" in their profile. This should serve as a red flag for parents.
They are classified as a "Special Education School" by the state because they claimed to the state to serve disabled kids (also the way they job the IRS by advising parents write off trips to see their 'disabled child' BTW), but since their program doesn't meet any of the state requirements they remain an unapproved school.
It's just another red flag and a clear sign to avoid this substandard facility. I don't see what's so confusing.
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More or less, it's the state's way of saying "This is what this place represented itself to us to be, but we can't approve it because they don't meet muster."
That should be enough for any parent to keep away...
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More or less, it's the state's way of saying "This is what this place represented itself to us to be, but we can't approve it because they don't meet muster."
That should be enough for any parent to keep away...
Exactly, they are a hybrid school inbetween a private boarding school and a school that provides therapy. The state doesnt have a category for them, they are not approved as a special education school so the regulations do not apply.
The state nneds to get thier butt in gear and define the regulations for TBS's
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Or ASR needs to stop pretending they have less than 30% of their population being classified as special needs and get the proper license.
Any way you look at this Cindy, ASR has been trying to get away with something. Dont feel too bad, it worked up until now.
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I just think it's funny that he was at it all day and all night and all day again trying to get out of the fact that ASR is classified by the state as a Special Education School and that the state says that, although this is ASR's legal classification, they don't meet the minimum requirements that even the worst schools in Massachusetts meet every day.
It's interesting to note that not even the usual pro-ASR parents will throw their lot in with this nutbag. He's all alone on this crazy rant...
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More or less, it's the state's way of saying "This is what this place represented itself to us to be, but we can't approve it because they don't meet muster."
That should be enough for any parent to keep away...
Exactly, they are a hybrid school inbetween a private boarding school and a school that provides therapy. The state doesnt have a category for them, they are not approved as a special education school so the regulations do not apply.
The state nneds to get thier butt in gear and define the regulations for TBS's
Who boy,
Hybrid school my arse. They, like HLA and all the rest, are first and foremost, 'treatment' facilities, with an secondary academic component, because the latter is required by law. You know this, as you stated that the academics provided at ASR weren't important to you.
The state already has regs for residential treatment facilities. Those regs are just fine, if anything, too lax.
Now, why don't you actually read through them and post the ones you don't think ASR would like, err, that wouldn't "add value" to ASRs 'treatment' facility.
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I just think it's funny that he was at it all day and all night and all day again trying to get out of the fact that ASR is classified by the state as a Special Education School and that the state says that, although this is ASR's legal classification, they don't meet the minimum requirements that even the worst schools in Massachusetts meet every day.
It's interesting to note that not even the usual pro-ASR parents will throw their lot in with this nutbag. He's all alone on this crazy rant...
The rest of us think it is funny that you cant back up your words ", they don't meet the minimum requirements that even the worst schools in Massachusetts meet every day..
This is why many posters here on fornits have no credibility because all the statements made here have no facts behind them. We have concluded that ASR is a hybrid school that doesn’t totally meet the requirements of a private boarding school, mental facility, RTC, special ed school. It meets some of each and should be classified as a TBS but the classification doesn’t exist....the state has dropped the ball on this...the school is moving forward and graduating students every year, no reason they should stop and wait for the state.
If the school was in violation they would have done something over the past 10 years, ya think?
Many Parents wont want their kids attending a state run facility anyway, the quality of service just isn’t there. Anyone who has visited a state run facility knows this.
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TheWho said:
The rest of us think it is funny that you cant back up your words ", they don't meet the minimum requirements that even the worst schools in Massachusetts meet every day.. "
First, 'the rest of us' you mention refers to you and you alone. There's nobody else here, just you. Haven't you noticed that nobody else supports your crazy opinions?
Second, Massachusetts public schools, even the worst of the worst, retain, as required by law, fully licensed and credentialed teachers while ASR, in contrast, retains exactly zero licensed, credentialed teachers, which in almost every single case (if not all) are cross-utilized to boot.
Which part don't you understand? I'll be happy to explain again if you have trouble grasping it: Worst of worst public schools - fully licensed teaching staff; ASR - zero licensed teachers. It's a cut and dried issue.
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TheWho said:
The rest of us think it is funny that you cant back up your words ", they don't meet the minimum requirements that even the worst schools in Massachusetts meet every day.. "
First, 'the rest of us' you mention refers to you and you alone. There's nobody else here, just you. Haven't you noticed that nobody else supports your crazy opinions?
Second, Massachusetts public schools, even the worst of the worst, retain, as required by law, fully licensed and credentialed teachers while ASR, in contrast, retains exactly zero licensed, credentialed teachers, which in almost every single case (if not all) are cross-utilized to boot.
Which part don't you understand? I'll be happy to explain again if you have trouble grasping it: Worst of worst public schools - fully licensed teaching staff; ASR - zero licensed teachers. It's a cut and dried issue.
Well, that’s just not true. We have some pretty bad schools in our state that you would approve of on paper and I am sure you would send your children to. Everybody is licensed from the janitor on up, but the kids enter an unsafe environment everyday, get a crappy education, low percentage of kids graduate, the food is unhealthy and the teachers (who are fully licensed) are trying to have sex with the students some have drug problems.... get the picture?
On the other hand ASR has the reputation of having 100% of the kids attend the college of their choice, the teachers don’t have sex with the students, extremely low teacher to student ratio...safe environment…..should I continue?
So you would choose the state run facilities over the private boarding schools for your child? Having state oversight isnt a good thing, once they get their claws into stuff it turns bad and corrupt, teachers get tenure whether they are effective or not, they cant get fired unless they resort to having sex with a student!! Its nuts that you see this as a better choice....
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TheWho said:
The rest of us think it is funny that you cant back up your words ", they don't meet the minimum requirements that even the worst schools in Massachusetts meet every day.. "
First, 'the rest of us' you mention refers to you and you alone. There's nobody else here, just you. Haven't you noticed that nobody else supports your crazy opinions?
Second, Massachusetts public schools, even the worst of the worst, retain, as required by law, fully licensed and credentialed teachers while ASR, in contrast, retains exactly zero licensed, credentialed teachers, which in almost every single case (if not all) are cross-utilized to boot.
Which part don't you understand? I'll be happy to explain again if you have trouble grasping it: Worst of worst public schools - fully licensed teaching staff; ASR - zero licensed teachers. It's a cut and dried issue.
Well, that’s just not true. We have some pretty bad schools in our state that you would approve of on paper and I am sure you would send your children to. Everybody is licensed from the janitor on up, but the kids enter an unsafe environment everyday, get a crappy education, low percentage of kids graduate, the food is unhealthy and the teachers (who are fully licensed) are trying to have sex with the students some have drug problems.... get the picture?
Yep, got it. ASR is just like the public schools, plus forced therapy by unlicensed staff, isolation, physical punishment and nobody watching out for the kids' welfare and minus any licensed, qualified teachers. Roger that. :tup:
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Yep, got it. ASR is just like the public schools, plus forced therapy by unlicensed staff, isolation, physical punishment and nobody watching out for the kids' welfare and minus any licensed, qualified teachers. Roger that
You forgot, cross country skiing, white water rafting, swimming pool, weight gym, alternative food choices, low student teacher ratio, teachers who don’t have sex with the students, safe environment, no guns, no weapons, small community…should I continue?
I think most people (who have kids in the public school system) know where I am going with this. The public school system just doesn’t measure up any more, its not safe and the kids are not learning anything. It would be nuts to force a high level private boarding school to model themselves after this failed system…..
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Sure, let's continue...Forced sexual confessions to eager, horny staff, uneducated minders, kids having sex during class, full staff turnover every year, mindless and mindnumbing LGATs, sleep deprivation, violent and disturbed kids, unlicesned, cross-utilized teachers, unlicesened, uneducated staff, physical punishment... Shall I continue...?
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Well, that’s just not true.
Obviously it is. ASR has no licensed teachers, this has been established and verified. Public schools do. Case closed.
We have some pretty bad schools in our state that you would approve of on paper and I am sure you would send your children to
Most people arent going to chose to send their kids to a bad school public or private. Being properly licensed though is a positive step in the right direction. ASR not being licensed is a huge red flag that youre too blind to see.
but the kids enter an unsafe environment everyday
Weve already established that a kid is safer from abuse in a public school than he is a TBS. There's no point in rehashing this data.
get a crappy education
Which in your mind is somehow worse then getting an education from unlicensed teachers and earns you a diploma which is worthless.
low percentage of kids graduate,
Who you seem to be missing the fact that according to the DoE none of the kids at ASR graduate. Thats 0%.
the food is unhealthy
Perhaps you missed the part in the article where the chef expressed his concern for how little food the kids were getting at ASR. Is this healthy?
and the teachers (who are fully licensed) are trying to have sex with the students
Youve mentioned this several times, Id be interested to know how often does it actually happen? Can you cite some kind of source?
some have drug problems
Dont most kids at TBS's have drug problems?
get the picture?
We do, the question now is do you?
On the other hand ASR has the reputation of having 100% of the kids attend the college of their choice,
This is actually a blatent lie and I'd like you to stop mentioning it.
http://www.swiftriver.com/acceptances.htm (http://www.swiftriver.com/acceptances.htm)
If you look closely youll notice that many of the schools listed have astericks next to them. The meaning of them is given as,
(*indicates ASR graduate chose to attend):
So please, tell us. What does the lack of an asterisk indicate?
the teachers don’t have sex with the students
That youre aware of.
extremely low teacher to student ratio
Something thats prevalent in many public schools as well. Although Im sure its easier at ASR to accomplish. After all they'll apparently hire just about anybody so really it widens the candidates field a bit dont you think?
safe environment…..should I continue?
What makes you think its a safe enviornment? The only reports we have on here suggest otherwise.
So you would choose the state run facilities over the private boarding schools for your child?
Since no one but you has brought up state run facilities I'll leave this one to you.
Having state oversight isnt a good thing,
This doesn't agree with your earlier comments.
The schools feel they are doing a great job and probably are but it takes an outside force to get oversight and in the end it is good for the kids!!!
Why the sudden change of heart Who?
once they get their claws into stuff it turns bad and corrupt,
What "stuff"? How do they turn it bad and corrupt?
teachers get tenure whether they are effective or not, they cant get fired unless they resort to having sex with a student!!
Okay now youre just being ridiculus. State oversight and regulation in no way forces private schools to grant teachers tenure. Nor does it control the firing policy. These are still private schools. Stay with the facts or stop talking.
Its nuts that you see this as a better choice....
Because as has already been established it makes the schools safer for the kids.
I wonder if the reason you dont want it is because secretly you want to hurt these kids. Is that it? Either way too many people are focused on this now. ASR is soon to have licensure forced upon them. Sorry if this makes you mad but you better get used to it. Ha ha ha.
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So it looks like we have come full circle, Again. It is clear the state needs to determine what regulations apply to ASR. What we know is they are classified as a "Specialty school" but they are not approved as a special education school so the regulations do not apply until after approval, so they are in limbo.
Until the state defines where ASR fits within their system or breaks out a new category for TBS's I don’t see this getting resolved. So the starting point seems to be with the state.
ASR is tired of trying to get the state off their duffs and do something, maybe a few letters from the public could help.
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I agree. It's settled. Energy should be focused on lobbying the state agencies to enforce their regulations in regard to ASR. Let's work that contact list and get it going.
It is amusing to watch TheWho get totally worn down through his self-flagellation though. That's worth something.
But, yes, some facts have been established.
1. ASR is classified by the state. They are classified as a "Special Education School".
2. ASR does not employ any licensed teachers nor any special educators, so they remain "unapproved" by the state.
3. ASR does not appear in the Mohawk Regional School District's comprehensive review for 2007 which indicates their "partnership" with the district has ended in 2007.
4. ASR remains unaccredited and is legally barred by the state from issuing state sanctioned diplomas.
These appear to be the only objectively verifiable facts and the rest of the back-and-forth is just raw speculation.
As was stated, these are the objectively verifiable facts. The state's motivation to do or not do things, the "hybrid" argument, etc., is all just speculation. The facts above are the only ones that are verifiable and not someone's opinion.
What AnonWho just posted is simply more of his opinions, but the facts are listed in the quoted post above.
Let's just stick with facts to keep the dialogue real - nobody needs phonied-up information and opinions that don't bear out with the facts.
Let's be very clear. AnonWho is stating ASR is classified as a "specialty school" but no such category exists in Mass, and it is clear on the DoE website that ASR is in fact classified as a Special Education School, not a "specialty school".
The reason they are an Unapproved Special Education School is not because of some confusion about their role, it's because they don't meet the minimum standards under state law for approval.
Any assertion otherwise is disingenuous and not factual.
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The reason they are an Unapproved Special Education School is not because of some confusion about their role, it's because they don't meet the minimum standards under state law for approval.
of course they don’t...that is the point. They don’t meet the standards because they are not a "Special education school" as defined by the state of Massachusetts. They are a TBS and they don’t have a category for TBS (check their drop down menu selections) so they stick them under "Special ed school", but if you look at the requirements for a special education school they don’t fit a TBS. They are a hybrid and have been operating as such for a decade. They don’t meet any existing standards (in full) for any one category, but meet the standards of many different categories.
The state needs to draw up requirements for Therapeutic Boarding schools, but until then schools like ASR will have to live in between categories.
Anonwho
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AnonWho wrote:
"...they are not a "Special education school" as defined by the state of Massachusetts.
This is, in point of fact, a lie.
Here's the link to ASR's profile in the list of DoE classified Special Education Schools:
http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/home.asp?m ... t=2&o=2588 (http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/home.asp?mode=o&view=&mcasyear=2006&ot=2&o=2588)
It's true there is no category of "TBS" because the law does not recognize such a thing. The fact is, legally ASR is Spec Ed.
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Uh oh Cindy, I guess that whole hybrid idea just went out the window.
In doing some reading I came across the regs for special education programs.
I found this particular listing to be interesting:
(b) Mail and Telephone. Written and telephone communication shall not be prohibited. It shall be each student's right to open and send his/her own mail unread by staff, except in accordance with the following circumstances:
1. Such restrictions or censorship must be limited to that which is necessary to achieve the therapeutic purpose outlined in the student's IEP.
2. Mail that is restricted or censored must be returned to the sender with reasons therefore.
3. Staff may open and inspect student's mail for contraband only in the presence of the student.
4. The school shall make available a telephone (pay or free) to students.
5. Telephone communication may not be restricted or monitored unless there are specific therapeutic reasons justifying such limitations.
a. Such therapeutic reasons must be clearly stated in the student's IEP and must be no greater than necessary to achieve the therapeutic purpose.
b. If phone conversations are monitored, the parties to the conversation must be informed.
c. There must be no restrictions or monitoring of conversations between a student and his/her attorney, social worker or clergy person.
I wonder if ASR has been violating these regs?
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AnonWho wrote:
"...they are not a "Special education school" as defined by the state of Massachusetts.
This is, in point of fact, a lie.
Here's the link to ASR's profile in the list of DoE classified Special Education Schools:
http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/home.asp?m ... t=2&o=2588 (http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/home.asp?mode=o&view=&mcasyear=2006&ot=2&o=2588)
It's true there is no category of "TBS" because the law does not recognize such a thing. The fact is, legally ASR is Spec Ed.
Let me finish your research for you (half truth again)... go to the next name on the list "Amego school" (or choose another) at the bottom you will see Special Education Approved Program: Has Program. ASR doesn’t have this because they are not a "Special Education school" they haven’t sought to be classified this way and the state doesn’t recognize them as such so these regulations don’t apply. There is no drop down for TBS so they place them in Special school category.
Do your homework..... now that I have proven you wrong again can we expect some personal attacks?
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No just more of the truth.
So what you're saying is that ASR is approved as a Special Education Program, but they don't have one.
In that case what the hell are they doing over there?
Remember Cindy the state doesnt recognize your hybrids, so what exactly are they?
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I guess Thewho is right! Again???
(http://http://www.orgsites.com/nj/chhs/HybridDesignCroped-NoWhite.jpg)
anon who
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Talking about yourself in the third person again Cindy?
This isnt a sign of good mental health.
Either way you were wrong..again.
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AnonWho wrote:
"...they are not a "Special education school" as defined by the state of Massachusetts.
This is, in point of fact, a lie.
Here's the link to ASR's profile in the list of DoE classified Special Education Schools:
http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/home.asp?m ... t=2&o=2588 (http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/home.asp?mode=o&view=&mcasyear=2006&ot=2&o=2588)
It's true there is no category of "TBS" because the law does not recognize such a thing. The fact is, legally ASR is Spec Ed.
Just no way to get around this. Massachusetts has ruled on the matter and ASR is an (unapproved) Special Education School.
Not sure why people are trying to fight this so hard. ASR applied to the state for this classification and got it. Just click the link above to see their status for yourself, parents.
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AnonWho wrote:
"...they are not a "Special education school" as defined by the state of Massachusetts.
This is, in point of fact, a lie.
Here's the link to ASR's profile in the list of DoE classified Special Education Schools:
http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/home.asp?m ... t=2&o=2588 (http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/home.asp?mode=o&view=&mcasyear=2006&ot=2&o=2588)
It's true there is no category of "TBS" because the law does not recognize such a thing. The fact is, legally ASR is Spec Ed.
Just no way to get around this. Massachusetts has ruled on the matter and ASR is an (unapproved) Special Education School.
Not sure why people are trying to fight this so hard. ASR applied to the state for this classification and got it. Just click the link above to see their status for yourself, parents.
Finally, I think we all agree....they have been classified but are not subjected to the states antiquated rules because ASR hasn’t applied for approval status. So they remain out from under the states control for the most part.
I cant think of any parents that would want to spend $6,000 a month to send their kid to a state run facility. They can do this for free in their own state, camouflage uniforms, drill sergeants, institutional food etc……as long as ASR stays Private they will be able to freely provide the highest quality of care.
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If by "highest quality care" you mean "be held to lower standards than the worst of the worst public shools," then yes, I agree with you.
They are doing that now and will remain free to do so until the state steps in to rectify the situation and require ASR to hire competent licensed teachers, of which they currently employ none.
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If by "highest quality care" you mean "be held to lower standards than the worst of the worst public shools," then yes, I agree with you.
They are doing that now and will remain free to do so until the state steps in to rectify the situation and require ASR to hire competent licensed teachers, of which they currently employ none.
Can you provide a link to show the teachers are unlicensed?
..
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I called ASR and asked if any were licensed. They said they aren't legally required to hire licensed teachers and none of theirs are.
I think it was well established before by RB who gave each name to the DoE rep who confirmed that none were licensed.
In the meantime, I'll try to find links to teachers' licensing for Mass, but not sure if that can be had from the internet.
Are you saying they are licensed? If so, why does ASR say "no" and why are none listed as having a license on ASR's website? As a consumer, I'd like to see that listed, as it would be a very strong selling point. But it looks like there are no licensed teachers by ASR's own admission. At least they don't lie about it.
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So, no link?
Okay, I think we believe you.
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Not everything's available instantly online. I think people understand that. I'll initiate a request via email to the DoE quality assurance unit and get back with the answer.
For now, I'm OK with accepting the fact that ASR makes no such claim of licensed teachers, only you do, and that speaks volumes.
I'll get back to you with the response from the QA unit. Take your ritilin and be patient.
In the meantime, maybe you can use some of your free time and energy to tell us why you were posing as a Hyde School student named "Albert"? I'd like to know that answer too, and I do have links to show you did it. Funny how when links are provided, you decline to answer any questions. Hmmmm.... Are you believable? Not really.
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I think I made him mad again.....
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Oh, no. Just filling in some time here while I'm waiting to hear back from the PQA liason officer.
So, any reason why you'd pretend to be a student at Hyde, or just misrepresenting yourself for giggles? If it's just for giggles, why can't you say so? If it was for some other reason, enlighten us.
Fact is, you did it. We just want to know why you lie about yourself.
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Hmmm....maybe I was looking to have my behavior modified
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So you don't have a real explination then?
Have your bosses instructed not to tell? Is that it?
At least offer some sort of viable excuse.
Don't tell us its just because youre nothing more than a cowardly little bitch.
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Of the 5 programs listed in Mass at NATSAP...
Academy at Swift River- Private,no Sp Ed,no
Therapeutic Boarding School
Ashby Academy- Private,no Sp Ed,no
Therapeutic Boarding School
F.L. Chamberlain School- Private,no Sp Ed,yes
Therapeutic Boarding School
John Dewey Academy- Private,yes Sp Ed,no
Therapeutic Boarding School & College Prep
Valley View School- Private,yes Sp Ed,no
Therapeutic Boarding School
http://www.natsap.org/programs_list.asp (http://www.natsap.org/programs_list.asp)
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Of the 5 programs listed in Mass at NATSAP...
Academy at Swift River- Private,no Sp Ed,no
Therapeutic Boarding School
Ashby Academy- Private,no Sp Ed,no
Therapeutic Boarding School
F.L. Chamberlain School- Private,no Sp Ed,yes
Therapeutic Boarding School
John Dewey Academy- Private,yes Sp Ed,no
Therapeutic Boarding School & College Prep
Valley View School- Private,yes Sp Ed,no
Therapeutic Boarding School
http://www.natsap.org/programs_list.asp (http://www.natsap.org/programs_list.asp)
FL Chamberlin is a "TBS" with an "approved special ed program". I guess some TBS's are able to pass the state's muster. ASR must be unable to comply like this other TBS does. At least parents can be more comfortable knowing there is a TBS that is overseen by the state. I'd avoid ASR totally since they are obviously much lower quality school.
Valley View and John Dewey are both registered as private schools.
Ashby and ASR must be just treatment centers. They don't have any approved status at all with the state.
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What exactly are they?
They aren't listed as Treatment Centers either.
http://www.eec.state.ma.us/residentialS ... RES%20CARE (http://www.eec.state.ma.us/residentialSearchResult.aspx?city=&zipcode=&type=ALL%20RES%20CARE)
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They're unapproved programs pretending to be Theraputic Boarding schools. They are neither approved nor licensed by anyone.
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Chamberlain and ASR are both classified identically by the DoE, but ASR can't pass DoE standards for approval, as they have unqualified unlicensed teachers.
See what DoE says about a real school, Chamberlain:
The Massachusetts Department of Education recently completed an evaluation of the Frederic L. Chamberlain School. The following are excerpts from their review:
"The review team would like to commend the following features of the school that were brought to the attention of the team and that the team believes have a significant and positive impact on the delivery of educational services for student enrolled at Frederic L. Chamberlain School. These features are as follows:"
The dedication and caring staff displayed for the students in the school was evident throughout the review through staff interviews, parent interviews and observations.
The New England buildings allow for a home-like atmosphere and with numerous personal touches, it is evident that there is a lot of pride in the school.
The curriculum offered to the students is a full continuum across all academic subjects.
The elective available for students to participate are wide and varied. They include: golf, tennis, art, track, music, horseback riding, dance, gardening, and creative writing.
... a clinical focus for the students which is so important in meeting their overall health needs. Parents report feeling very connected through the clinicians who are easily accessible and provide useful resources...
There are two laptop classrooms which truly are state-of-the-art.
The psychiatry clinic offered on site allows for two psychiatrists to be on the school premises for a total of three and a half days per week.
...overall safety and well-being of the students is of top priority for the administration.
...students were being challenged at their own level and that the curriculum was being modified for many of the students...
And they're properly licensed by DoE and the Office of Childcare Services:
Credentials
F. L. Chamberlain School is licensed by the
Massachusetts Office of Childcare services
and approved by the Massachusetts
Department of Education. The school is a
long standing member of the Massachusetts
Association of Approved Private Schools
and the National Association of Private
Schools for Exceptional Children.
If this school can get licensed properly and employ licensed teachers, it seems the only reason ASR won't is because they don't care enough about the kids to do the work or pay the money. Obviously this school offers much higher quality of care and education than ASR and still meets all licensing and oversight commitments. In fact, it exceeds all of them! ASR is far below all of the standards.
ASR can't claim anything like this or even issue a state diploma because it's unaccredited. What a shame ASR chooses to short-change families to increase profit. Very sad and embarrassing for them. :oops: :(
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What an oversight.... The only one listed as an RTC is Chamberlain.
http://www.eec.state.ma.us/kr_regulations_main_rp.aspx (http://www.eec.state.ma.us/kr_regulations_main_rp.aspx)
So, 1 out of 5 of the TBSs listed for Mass at NATSAP are properly licensed with EEC and properly classified as a Sp Ed School.
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I never thought I'd say this, but Chamberlain actually looks like a high-quality school. The only thing, and I mean the only thing, that makes me nervous is its association with NATSAP. NATSAP has such a poor record and endorses shitholes like ASR. Chamberlain should drop its NATSAP affiliation to avoid the stigma that comes with it.
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Yeah, but once they agree to be tied to the state regulations they will have to go back to using "Quattro pro" and hire drill sergeants, and drop down to state quality teachers... they will have to give up some of their "Private School " Status.... I would stay away from the state regulations...the kids cant get any better than 100% acceptance into college, why screw around with a good thing........
I would say it is a good decision to stay "Private"...... there are plenty of state run schools to choose from.
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Yeah, but once they agree to be tied to the state regulations they will have to go back to using "Quattro pro" and hire drill sergeants, and drop down to state quality teachers... they will have to give up some of their "Private School " Status.... I would stay away from the state regulations...the kids cant get any better than 100% acceptance into college, why screw around with a good thing........
I would say it is a good decision to stay "Private"...... there are plenty of state run schools to choose from.
::roflmao:: They're not even listed as Private.
No camo or drill stgs on the Chamberlain site. Apparently have certified teachers, since they are licensed by EEC. Apparently meet the Sp Ed qualifications as well.
You apparently have been misled about the role of regulation.
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Yeah, but once they agree to be tied to the state regulations they will have to go back to using "Quattro pro" and hire drill sergeants, and drop down to state quality teachers... they will have to give up some of their "Private School " Status.... I would stay away from the state regulations...the kids cant get any better than 100% acceptance into college, why screw around with a good thing........
I would say it is a good decision to stay "Private"...... there are plenty of state run schools to choose from.
Looks like your opinion is'nt related to the real world, Who.
This school is so much better than ASR with real licensed teachers and staff, proper licenses for treatment and childcare. ASR should strive to be like this - meet state regs and do way more than the minimum. ASR doesn't even meet the minimum requirements.
This place completely invalidates your argument and is much better than ASR in every way. This should be a model for TBS's to follow, not ASR's scam.
Some info on a Mass "TBS" that is properly licensed by OCS and approved by DoE.
ASR isn't qualified to carry this school's garbage cans...
Chamberlain and ASR are both classified identically by the DoE, but ASR can't pass DoE standards for approval, as they have unqualified unlicensed teachers.
See what DoE says about a real school, Chamberlain:
The Massachusetts Department of Education recently completed an evaluation of the Frederic L. Chamberlain School. The following are excerpts from their review:
"The review team would like to commend the following features of the school that were brought to the attention of the team and that the team believes have a significant and positive impact on the delivery of educational services for student enrolled at Frederic L. Chamberlain School. These features are as follows:"
The dedication and caring staff displayed for the students in the school was evident throughout the review through staff interviews, parent interviews and observations.
The New England buildings allow for a home-like atmosphere and with numerous personal touches, it is evident that there is a lot of pride in the school.
The curriculum offered to the students is a full continuum across all academic subjects.
The elective available for students to participate are wide and varied. They include: golf, tennis, art, track, music, horseback riding, dance, gardening, and creative writing.
... a clinical focus for the students which is so important in meeting their overall health needs. Parents report feeling very connected through the clinicians who are easily accessible and provide useful resources...
There are two laptop classrooms which truly are state-of-the-art.
The psychiatry clinic offered on site allows for two psychiatrists to be on the school premises for a total of three and a half days per week.
...overall safety and well-being of the students is of top priority for the administration.
...students were being challenged at their own level and that the curriculum was being modified for many of the students...
And they're properly licensed by DoE and the Office of Childcare Services:
Credentials
F. L. Chamberlain School is licensed by the
Massachusetts Office of Childcare services
and approved by the Massachusetts
Department of Education. The school is a
long standing member of the Massachusetts
Association of Approved Private Schools
and the National Association of Private
Schools for Exceptional Children.
If this school can get licensed properly and employ licensed teachers, it seems the only reason ASR won't is because they don't care enough about the kids to do the work or pay the money. Obviously this school offers much higher quality of care and education than ASR and still meets all licensing and oversight commitments. In fact, it exceeds all of them! ASR is far below all of the standards.
ASR can't claim anything like this or even issue a state diploma because it's unaccredited. What a shame ASR chooses to short-change families to increase profit. Very sad and embarrassing for them. :oops: :(
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They do a good job, I agree......Everything listed, ASR has plus more (not sure about the lap top classrooms, though).... I didn’t see white water rafting or cross country skiing listed (tongue in cheek), nor did they claim to have 100% of their graduates get accepted into college.
I was impressed with the write up, good for them.. it is a lot of hard work…but some schools just don’t want that type of state oversight and I don’t blame them. A school maintains more control over their own destiny if they stay private and out from under state control….there are advantages either way I suppose.
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They do a good job, I agree......Everything listed, ASR has plus more (not sure about the lap top classrooms, though).... I didn’t see white water rafting or cross country skiing listed (tongue in cheek), nor did they claim to have 100% of their graduates get accepted into college.
I was impressed with the write up, good for them.. it is a lot of hard work…but some schools just don’t want that type of state oversight and I don’t blame them. A school maintains more control over their own destiny if they stay private and out from under state control….there are advantages either way I suppose.
Interesting to note, ASR doesn't claim 100% of it's students are accepted into college. That's just something you apparently made up.
I also wonder if youre still purposely confusing a school with state oversight versus a state run program. These are two very different things yet you continue to mix them up. Is this because youre a moron, or are you simply trying to scare parents?
It also appears as if youre still advocating for ASR and programs like it to be allowed to operate outside of the law.
Can you justify this for us?
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umm, look it seems like monty python's argument shop...yes they are, no they arn't. i followed the link and true i could not find ASR on the site but i found the site a little confusing so there is nothing saying they are not either.......i was wondering if anyone called this mohawk school district and asked someone there?????? seems to me that would be very conclusive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I have a call in to the MTRSD PQA liason. Just waiting for the response.
But what are you confused about? DoE specifically classifies ASR as a Special Education School with no approved program. ASR is unaccredited. There is no evidence to suggest any licensed teachers (in fact ASR will verify this if you call them, they don't lie about it).
ASR is unlicensed by EEC and OCS. This is simply verified thru the respective websites.
What specifically are you confused about?
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umm, look it seems like monty python's argument shop...yes they are, no they arn't. i followed the link and true i could not find ASR on the site but i found the site a little confusing so there is nothing saying they are not either.......i was wondering if anyone called this mohawk school district and asked someone there?????? seems to me that would be very conclusive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is confusing. ASR is classified by the state as a "Special Ed school" because that was the best fit for them according to the state. They could have been classified as a "Private Boarding school" but they provide therapy. They do not have an approved program because if they did they would be subjected to all the regulations of the state, so ASR is happy to stay Private.
Unless a school is looking to benifit from being approved, like getting state money and grants etc. there is no reason to seek approval and be subjected to state regulations.
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umm, look it seems like monty python's argument shop...yes they are, no they arn't. i followed the link and true i could not find ASR on the site but i found the site a little confusing so there is nothing saying they are not either.......i was wondering if anyone called this mohawk school district and asked someone there?????? seems to me that would be very conclusive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is confusing. ASR is classified by the state as a "Special Ed school" because that was the best fit for them according to the state. They could have been classified as a "Private Boarding school" but they provide therapy. They do not have an approved program because if they did they would be subjected to all the regulations of the state, so ASR is happy to stay Private.
Unless a school is looking to benifit from being approved, like getting state money and grants etc. there is no reason to seek approval and be subjected to state regulations.
Ok so you agree that ASR is trying to avoid state oversight. Tell us who what "evil" state regulations scare ASR?
Specifically....
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There isnt any specific regulation….. why submit to regulations and give up control to someone else if you don’t have to? If you don’t feel it will benefit the kids or families, why do it? Why be held to being told what color to paint the bathrooms and such?
If you owned a candy shop and were growing and doing fine for 10 years, why would you want to have the state come in and tell you how to run your business?
I am not a big fan of big brother getting involved in anything, just screws things up.
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There isnt any specific regulation….. why submit to regulations and give up control to someone else if you don’t have to? If you don’t feel it will benefit the kids or families, why do it? Why be held to being told what color to paint the bathrooms and such?
If you owned a candy shop and were growing and doing fine for 10 years, why would you want to have the state come in and tell you how to run your business?
I am not a big fan of big brother getting involved in anything, just screws things up.
That's Who today.
This is Who yesterday.
That is exactly what is needed. If the schools become regulated then the parents will feel more at ease about sending their kids there. Yhe environment will be safer and the feds typically require schools (which are regulated) to track the effects of their treatment of the kids so that the success or failures can be easily seen. The better schools will rise to the top and the others will either have to improve or go out of business. This is good news for kids and parents, thanks.
Why the change of heart Cindy?
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#135714 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=135714&highlight=#135714)
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There isnt any specific regulation….. why submit to regulations and give up control to someone else if you don’t have to? If you don’t feel it will benefit the kids or families, why do it? Why be held to being told what color to paint the bathrooms and such?
If you owned a candy shop and were growing and doing fine for 10 years, why would you want to have the state come in and tell you how to run your business?
I am not a big fan of big brother getting involved in anything, just screws things up.
That's Who today.
This is Who yesterday.
That is exactly what is needed. If the schools become regulated then the parents will feel more at ease about sending their kids there. Yhe environment will be safer and the feds typically require schools (which are regulated) to track the effects of their treatment of the kids so that the success or failures can be easily seen. The better schools will rise to the top and the others will either have to improve or go out of business. This is good news for kids and parents, thanks.
Why the change of heart Cindy?
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#135714 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=135714&highlight=#135714)
Well after reading and seeing the effects of "Big Brother" I started changing my tune a little. I use to feel holding a schools or business's feet to the fire was a good thing. But it can stiffle creativity and growth in some business's. So I am moving away from my previous position of regulation for everyone.
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See how easy being honest is? I figured you were just going to do your usual song and dance and lie about ever having made the comment.
TheWho wrote
Waaah I never said that, someone changed my post. Deborah's a big meanie and I just pooped my pants. Waaahh
But you suprised me, you were man enough to be honest and say youd simply changed your mind. I'm proud of you Cindy. Maybe youre finally starting to grow up a little.
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There isnt any specific regulation….. why submit to regulations and give up control to someone else if you don’t have to? If you don’t feel it will benefit the kids or families, why do it? Why be held to being told what color to paint the bathrooms and such?
If you owned a candy shop and were growing and doing fine for 10 years, why would you want to have the state come in and tell you how to run your business?
I am not a big fan of big brother getting involved in anything, just screws things up.
You're making stuff up again Who :flame:
I want specifics not "they'll makes us repaint the restrooms" smoke and mirrors. You can't give me any specific law to look at? Why spread FUD? I'm asking you a straight question. I'm not asking for an argument I just want to know what specific oversights/regulations makes you piss your pants a little.
Look at other programs that you know to be abusive that can't be touched because they exist outside of the law. You have a kid, allegedly, could you imagine how pissed you would be if you sent her to Tranquility Bay were she was abused and then find out that you have no way of getting justice?
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I've posted the link to the Mass Regulations several times and invited him to cite the regs he felt wouldn't "add value" to a program, specifically ASR. He's not interested in that discussion. He'd rather carry on about the state controling everything from what computer software one uses to what color the bathroom will be to the treatment venue- cammo/drill sgts. Not sure who he's trying to sell that load to.
All treatment facilities are required to be licensed. Those that aren't have simply deceived the state regarding 'services provided'.
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There isnt any specific regulation….. why submit to regulations and give up control to someone else if you don’t have to? If you don’t feel it will benefit the kids or families, why do it? Why be held to being told what color to paint the bathrooms and such?
If you owned a candy shop and were growing and doing fine for 10 years, why would you want to have the state come in and tell you how to run your business?
I am not a big fan of big brother getting involved in anything, just screws things up.
You're making stuff up again Who :flame:
I want specifics not "they'll makes us repaint the restrooms" smoke and mirrors. You can't give me any specific law to look at? Why spread FUD? I'm asking you a straight question. I'm not asking for an argument I just want to know what specific oversights/regulations makes you piss your pants a little.
Look at other programs that you know to be abusive that can't be touched because they exist outside of the law. You have a kid, allegedly, could you imagine how pissed you would be if you sent her to Tranquility Bay were she was abused and then find out that you have no way of getting justice?
Not making anything up…. Just trying to explain why (in general) businesses do not like state oversight. It is not because of a single regulation, but the fact that it restricts you from doing things, slows down progress and change and can be costly. If there can be no attributed value to doing this why sign up?
As far as TB I would not like it at all. Not all programs/schools abuse kids….the problems at TB should be addressed, I agree.
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Cindy, we're looking for you to get specific.
but the fact that it restricts you from doing things
What things? Specifically.
slows down progress
How so? Again specifically.
and change and can be costly.
Why? What specifically is so costly?
If you want to have a real conversation on here you're going to have to learn to stop making things up and speaking in generalizations.
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One needent look any further than the energy industry to see that deregulation spawns graft, fraud, waste and abuse.
Besides, there isn't any "creativity" needed for treatment. We have SCIENCE for that. Only TBS's suppress proven treatment because they don't want to pay the cost of professionals' salaries, so they get uneducated hacks to implement non-outcome based "treatment".
Mental health treatment is, and should be, regulated. It keeps patients safe and assures ethical, proven treatment methods.
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One needent look any further than the energy industry to see that deregulation spawns graft, fraud, waste and abuse.
Besides, there isn't any "creativity" needed for treatment. We have SCIENCE for that. Only TBS's suppress proven treatment because they don't want to pay the cost of professionals' salaries, so they get uneducated hacks to implement non-outcome based "treatment".
Mental health treatment is, and should be, regulated. It keeps patients safe and assures ethical, proven treatment methods.
ASR has moved, over the years, to a clinical model and more outcome based "Teatment".
As you can see by some of my past posts, I have been on the fence with this issue. If a business is grossly out of line then regulation can serve to correct and bring them back on course by holding their feet to the fire. But other business do better without the restriction of state oversight
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Yet you wont get specific on what regulations you believe will hurt ASR.
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Yet you wont get specific on what regulations you believe will hurt ASR.
No, I dont have a specific rule or regulation that comes to mind.
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This is like saying "I hate blacks. Don't know why, just do."
If you can't point out regs that you think reduce "value", then you don't have any that you disagree with.
This is more of a Libertarian generalization than a specific issue. Just dogma without reason.
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Well Cindy's political ideology lies somewhere between extreme libertarianism and mild anarchy. So this is to be expected.
So since ASR's staunchest supporter cant supply a single regulation that he believes will actually hurt ASR it looks as if we've firmly established that ASR being forced to become licensed and regulated is a positive thing across the board.
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Looks like it was no problem for Chamberlain. Top notch Special Ed program with licensed teachers and individual IEP's, OCS license, EEC license. Can't really find anything wrong with it (except maybe NATSAP "seal of approval" which is a red flag).
Seems like the kids are getting the best possible care from competent, qualified, licensed staff. ASR can't claim any of that.
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But DJ Chamberlin cant claim the kids have white water rafting!
Don't you think thats the most important thing for any program???
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But DJ Chamberlin cant claim the kids have white water rafting!
Don't you think thats the most important thing for any program???
....and cross country skiing, lets stay with the facts!
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Right so which is more important, skiing and rafting or safety and licensed teachers?
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Right so which is more important, skiing and rafting or safety and licensed teachers?
Very good Question:
1. If you had a child that was suffering with social issues and may benefit from being with other kids then a choice of white water rafting or cross-country skiing (depending on the season) would probably be more important. The academics would be secondary.
2. If you had a child that would benefit mostly from a safe environment then this would be most important for that child with the academics and social activities further down on the list.
3. If a child had no issues that required therapy and was a self starter then I would recommend a regular private boarding school and ASR probably wouldn’t be a good fit for him/her.
So I think it is fair to say each case is different depending on the child, there is no correct answer that applies to everyone.
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Wow Cindy. Again you suprise me, you really are starting to grow up. I hope youll continue to make an effort to stop being such a little bitch and just have a legitimate conversation.
In all seriousness Cindy I really appreciate it.
In keeping with that tone:
Very good Question:
1. If you had a child that was suffering with social issues and may benefit from being with other kids then a choice of white water rafting or cross-country skiing (depending on the season) would probably be more important. The academics would be secondary.
For a situation like this arent there much less extreme and more viable options other than shipping the child off to a place like ASR?
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Wow Cindy. Again you suprise me, you really are starting to grow up. I hope youll continue to make an effort to stop being such a little bitch and just have a legitimate conversation.
In all seriousness Cindy I really appreciate it.
In keeping with that tone:
Very good Question:
1. If you had a child that was suffering with social issues and may benefit from being with other kids then a choice of white water rafting or cross-country skiing (depending on the season) would probably be more important. The academics would be secondary.
For a situation like this arent there much less extreme and more viable options other than shipping the child off to a place like ASR?
On the surface it may seem so, but many of these kids have tried or as a minimum been exposed to less extreme options and they failed to work. Something as simple or benign as a “structured environment” works well for many of these children to get turned around and set back on their path.
As an aside:
You could stand a little maturing on how you pose a question, Devon.
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On the surface it may seem so, but many of these kids have tried or as a minimum been exposed to less extreme options and they failed to work. Something as simple or benign as a “structured environment” works well for many of these children to get turned around and set back on their path.
But there are several "structured enviornments" where a child can learn to develop himself socially without being in such a controlling enviornment. In fact I would go so far as to say such a child would be worse off for having attended such a program. Youre asking him to develop socially within a network where virtually all of the kids are purported to have some sort of behavioral or emotional problem. He's also being made to work on issues he doesnt have.
Wouldnt something like an after school club that caters to his interest or a church group be a better option for such a kid.
As for maturity levels, so long as you can maintain conducting yourself like an adult and not play games I promise I'll be sweet as a biscuit.
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Your average child I would tend to agree with you. Social structure is considered phase 1 in any growth or intervention. School sponsored clubs and church groups are excellent activities to expose kids to peer social development and most of the children do fine and thrive within this lightly structured environment. A very small minority of children fail to respond in this environment and need something more structured where they can benefit from a therapeutic atmosphere, structured routine to get them back on track.
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What kind of problems would that kid be dealing with?
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What kind of problems would that kid be dealing with?
I cant comment on specific problems, I wouldnt know. The childs therapist typically makes the call on whether it would be a benificial enviornment for him or her.
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A very small minority of children fail to respond in this environment and need something more structured where they can benefit from a therapeutic atmosphere, structured routine to get them back on track.
I'm looking to know what would qualify a kid to be considered part of this small minority.
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A very small minority of children fail to respond in this environment and need something more structured where they can benefit from a therapeutic atmosphere, structured routine to get them back on track.
I'm looking to know what would qualify a kid to be considered part of this small minority.
I leave the specifics to the pros, I dont have a background in this area.
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Well, THE WHO, maybe you can just throw out an example or two. What was the problem with your daughter? Why did you choose to lock your own daughterl up for about a year of her life?
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A very small minority of children fail to respond in this environment and need something more structured where they can benefit from a therapeutic atmosphere, structured routine to get them back on track.
I'm looking to know what would qualify a kid to be considered part of this small minority.
If you want to know something, asking Who is the wrong thing to do.
Our student profile:
Co-ed Ages 14-17, grades 9 – 12
Minimum full scale IQ 95
College oriented
Emotional and behavioral disturbances
Anxiety disorders including post-traumatic stress disorder
Defiant and/or rebellious
Mild to moderate mood disorders
Academic underachievement and/or school avoidance
Attention disorders
Low self-esteem
Adoption related issues
Unresolved grief reactions including parental divorce
Substance abuse
Please complete our Assessment Questionnaire to determine if your child may need placement services. All information submitted is confidential. The results will be displayed upon pressing the submit button.
http://www.swiftriver.com/student_profile.htm (http://www.swiftriver.com/student_profile.htm)
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Those criterias dont seem to qualify for a kid who is simply having social issues. Not doing enough white water rafting and whatnot.
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I'm looking to know what would qualify a kid to be considered part of this small minority.
So take the list the Deborah supplied and match that against what a childs therapist feels would be best for him or her and that would determine if ASR is a good fit or not.
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Okay but Im asking about the kid you said would be a good fit for ASR. What was wrong with him?
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Okay but Im asking about the kid you said would be a good fit for ASR. What was wrong with him?
I would defer to his/her therapist for the details of why they would be a good fit and succeed.
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Fine. Would you be willing to discuss some of the issues that your daughter was facing that lead you to feel ASR would be a good option for her?
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Fine. Would you be willing to discuss some of the issues that your daughter was facing that lead you to feel ASR would be a good option for her?
No, that is something she will have to share someday with you guys. I can say that the structured enviornment helped her immensely and got her back on track with her academics. It also gave her a safe enviornment inwhich to mature and grow, which she did at a very fast rate.
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Fair enough. Do you think she might have done as well though with a less structured environment? Can I ask were her issues more centered on behavioral or academic?
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Fine. Would you be willing to discuss some of the issues that your daughter was facing that lead you to feel ASR would be a good option for her?
No, that is something she will have to share someday with you guys. I can say that the structured enviornment helped her immensely and got her back on track with her academics. It also gave her a safe enviornment inwhich to mature and grow, which she did at a very fast rate.
he already said why. 1. truancy 2. immaturity. 3. telling the truth about her father TO her father
bottom line: she was a normal teenager forced into a residential treatment program for 2 years because of his massive ego.
of course, he also stated that within days of being home she was getting high, drinking, and running with her old crew (LOTS of GROWTH there :roll: ). then she just left and quit speaking to him at all. his statements. good for her.
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telling the truth to her father about her father?
What's that all about Who?
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stuff like "you know da, you're a real asshole!"
BAM! two years at an RTC.
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Fine. Would you be willing to discuss some of the issues that your daughter was facing that lead you to feel ASR would be a good option for her?
No, that is something she will have to share someday with you guys. I can say that the structured enviornment helped her immensely and got her back on track with her academics. It also gave her a safe enviornment inwhich to mature and grow, which she did at a very fast rate.
he already said why. 1. truancy 2. immaturity. 3. telling the truth about her father TO her father
bottom line: she was a normal teenager forced into a residential treatment program for 2 years because of his massive ego.
of course, he also stated that within days of being home she was getting high, drinking, and running with her old crew (LOTS of GROWTH there :roll: ). then she just left and quit speaking to him at all. his statements. good for her.
Come on lets all be honest...You forgot to mention she joined al-Qaida and works part time as an Ed con and has a goal of being on the board of directors for Aspen Ed...Ha,Ha,Ha,
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Can you tell us about that third one Who?
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Can you tell us about that third one Who?
3. telling the truth about her father TO her father
I dont know what this means, exactly....also does anyone know what it means when someone writes their name and then puts the "Less than 3" symbol (<3) after it?
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A very small minority of children fail to respond in this environment and need something more structured where they can benefit from a therapeutic atmosphere, structured routine to get them back on track.
I'm looking to know what would qualify a kid to be considered part of this small minority.
If you want to know something, asking Who is the wrong thing to do.
Our student profile:
Co-ed Ages 14-17, grades 9 – 12
Minimum full scale IQ 95
College oriented
Emotional and behavioral disturbances
Anxiety disorders including post-traumatic stress disorder
Defiant and/or rebellious
Mild to moderate mood disorders
Academic underachievement and/or school avoidance
Attention disorders
Low self-esteem
Adoption related issues
Unresolved grief reactions including parental divorce
Substance abuse
Please complete our Assessment Questionnaire to determine if your child may need placement services. All information submitted is confidential. The results will be displayed upon pressing the submit button.
http://www.swiftriver.com/student_profile.htm (http://www.swiftriver.com/student_profile.htm)
So I guess an "assessment questionaire" takes the place of a "psychiatric evaluation" at ASR. What a sad load of shit they're selling...
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A very small minority of children fail to respond in this environment and need something more structured where they can benefit from a therapeutic atmosphere, structured routine to get them back on track.
I'm looking to know what would qualify a kid to be considered part of this small minority.
If you want to know something, asking Who is the wrong thing to do.
Our student profile:
Co-ed Ages 14-17, grades 9 – 12
Minimum full scale IQ 95
College oriented
Emotional and behavioral disturbances
Anxiety disorders including post-traumatic stress disorder
Defiant and/or rebellious
Mild to moderate mood disorders
Academic underachievement and/or school avoidance
Attention disorders
Low self-esteem
Adoption related issues
Unresolved grief reactions including parental divorce
Substance abuse
Please complete our Assessment Questionnaire to determine if your child http://www.swiftriver.com/student_profile.htm[/url]
So I guess an "assessment questionaire" takes the place of a "psychiatric evaluation" at ASR. What a sad load of shit they're selling...
It appears you misunderstood the intent of the questionnaire or the basic understanding of student profile. If you happen to go onto webmd.com, for example, and look at the warning signs and symptoms of cancer you will get a list including:
• A soreness or feeling that something is caught in the back of the throat.
• Difficulty chewing or swallowing, speaking, or moving the jaw or tongue.
• Hoarseness, chronic sore throat, or change in voice.
• Ear pain.
• A change in the way your teeth or dentures fit together.
• Dramatic weight loss.
If you have any of these does this mean you drive to the emergency room and start chemo treatment? Of course not, you see a professional first and have yourself evaluated, you may not have cancer. The items on the list are just possible indications.
The same for the list in the Assessment questionnaire, the next step is to contact a professional and have your child evaluated (ASR will tell you this). There are many steps involved before it is determined your child may need help outside the home and if they are a good fit for ASR.
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Thanks, anonWho. Coming from you, it really means something...NOT.
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Thanks, anonWho. Coming from you, it really means something....
Thanks, guest, there are many people who misinterpret the meaning of the assessment list even outside of the “Struggling teen industry”. We have a consulting firm which specializes in companies who are on the verge of bankruptcy and we put out a list of warning signs. These signs don’t necessarily mean your company is going bankrupt but could be an indication you are heading down the wrong path. They may or may not be a candidate for our services and further analysis would be needed to determine this.
For example ASR lists “Emotional and behavioral disturbances” as one of a possible criteria for being accepted at ASR. This covers a wide range of problems (in and of itself)… on one end of the spectrum the child may be violent and has attacked people with knives. This type of child would not fit in at ASR. On the other end of the spectrum the child may have very mild emotional issues which wouldn’t constitute placement outside of the home and ASR may recommend starting with local services or embracing the services of a therapist.
I think a good way to approach these types of list is to view them as a first pass. If the behavior fits your child it is worth looking into further, maybe seeking professional advice.
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Curious then why they didn't recommend you go to family therapy with your daughter before sending her to ASR for truancy.
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Curious then why they didn't recommend you go to family therapy with your daughter before sending her to ASR for truancy.
Good question. We initially spoke with the admissions person and they recommended we have her evaluated prior to making any decisions on placement. The evaluation was performed by an independent therapist and he spoke with ASR and my daughter’s therapist. There was no need or requirement (on their end) for us to enter into family counseling prior to enrollment. The issue with my daughter wasn’t just truancy; there was more going on in her life.
So I think what each parent needs to keep in mind is that each case is evaluated differently depending on the individual problems the child and/or family is going through. In some cases they may recommend the family enter into counseling and see how that works for a short period of time and then revisit out placement.
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There was no need or requirement (on their end) for us to enter into family counseling prior to enrollment.
Would your daughter agree with that assesment? Also I'd like to finish up with that matter we were discussing in PM's.
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There was no need or requirement (on their end) for us to enter into family counseling prior to enrollment.
Would your daughter agree with that assesment? Also I'd like to finish up with that matter we were discussing in PM's.
She wasnt agreeable at the time about much at all. But in hindsight I am sure she agrees with the process.
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Do you feel it might have helped her transition had her parents actually gone through therapy themselves?
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Do you feel it might have helped her transition had her parents actually gone through therapy themselves?
The transition, no. In hindsight, sure we could have done things differently which might have helped. But I dont think it would have resolved a whole lot......
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Right so which is more important, skiing and rafting or safety and licensed teachers?
Very good Question:
1. If you had a child that was suffering with social issues and may benefit from being with other kids then a choice of white water rafting or cross-country skiing (depending on the season) would probably be more important. The academics would be secondary.
2. If you had a child that would benefit mostly from a safe environment then this would be most important for that child with the academics and social activities further down on the list.
3. If a child had no issues that required therapy and was a self starter then I would recommend a regular private boarding school and ASR probably wouldn’t be a good fit for him/her.
So I think it is fair to say each case is different depending on the child, there is no correct answer that applies to everyone.
So, some kids need to be safe... Can we extrapolate this statement to understand that you are also implying that some kids don't need to be safe or even specifically need to be in an unsafe environment?
Underlying this post you seem to be not just condoning abusive situations, but even advocating for "unsafe" environments.
I believe most sane parents would have responded that in all cases safety is a hell of a lot more important than skiing or whitewater rafting.
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Right so which is more important, skiing and rafting or safety and licensed teachers?
Very good Question:
1. If you had a child that was suffering with social issues and may benefit from being with other kids then a choice of white water rafting or cross-country skiing (depending on the season) would probably be more important. The academics would be secondary.
2. If you had a child that would benefit mostly from a safe environment then this would be most important for that child with the academics and social activities further down on the list.
3. If a child had no issues that required therapy and was a self starter then I would recommend a regular private boarding school and ASR probably wouldn’t be a good fit for him/her.
So I think it is fair to say each case is different depending on the child, there is no correct answer that applies to everyone.
So, some kids need to be safe... Can we extrapolate this statement to understand that you are also implying that some kids don't need to be safe or even specifically need to be in an unsafe environment?
Underlying this post you seem to be not just condoning abusive situations, but even advocating for "unsafe" environments.
I believe most sane parents would have responded that in all cases safety is a hell of a lot more important than skiing or whitewater rafting.
I see what you are saying. What I was trying to indicate is that in some cases the child is in an unsafe environment and not going to school so the primary importance would be to get the child to a safe place and secondary would be academics. But you are right, all parents would want to have their child in a safe place regardless. My intent was not to condone placement of a child in an unsafe place.
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Are all ASR parents like this guy, or is he just special?
Here's another Sleazy Response from TheWho about a sexual abuse victim:
Ha, Ha, Ha............. Sometimes this is too funny! You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha... Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity! You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha
This guy is SICK!
Nasty. Who, do you have a bloody clown suit in your closet? You're a sick bastard.
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TheWho is also responsible for 911, that S.O.B. He should be banned. We dont need opinions about kids doing well in programs. We all know they are all brain washed. I get so pissed when I hear that some children are successful. That friggin "Who" lies so much. He is ruining it for everyone that believes all programs are evil and abusive.
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Jimmy, did you graduate from a program? I believe you did 2 years of highschool and I did 1 year so between the two of us we make a highschool graduate right?
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Bob, that only 3 years. whats your point?
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Jimmy, between the 2 of us we are smarter than most people. We didnt need to graduate from any dam program or school.
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Say, good night Bob, you are tired.
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TheWho is also responsible for 911
Don't know about 911, but TheWho admits that he enjoys making fun of the personal testimonies of sexual abuse victims.
He admits he finds one of the most detailed and horrifying accounts "struck him as a little funny".
He copy/pasted the most graphic part of this survivor's testimony.
Then added his own comments in a sadistic attempt at humor. The
day after the survivor posted their original story.
TheWho posted in response to one guest as a way to "Get back at that guest" and "try to be funny".
He failed at both.
He did, however, manage to show his true nature, decide for yourself.
In an earlier post he claims he would believe a survivor if he knew nothing of the facility (as in this case).
A confirmed lie.
He will not just disbelieve a survivor. He will copy/paste their words.
Add his own jokes about sexual and physical abuse in captivity.
A truly disgusting spectacle of immaturity by TheWho.
The Who admits to finding testimony of sexual and physical abuse "a little funny" and is a confirmed liar.
Copy/pasted from this thread of post made Sat Apr 14, 2007
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
TheWho writes the next day Sun Apr 15, 2007 in response to a guest:
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80[/url]
Why would TheWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse? The comments int he parenthesis are TheWho's, the rest was copy/pasted from a survivor testimony posted one day earlier, detailing sexual abuse and other horrible forms of abuse.
There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
He disgustingly uses the most graphic details of a survivor's abuse story to make jokes. He is making fun of a child abuse victim who is explaining they were sexually abused, and he makes fun of the very next day. TheWho has some maturing to do!
If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
He is also a CONFIRMED liar.
"Who" finds detailed accounts of sexual and physical abuse in captivity funny and then uses it in their posts to make jokes???
Talk about SLEEZY! :roll:
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He was flying one of the planes on September 11, 2001. Nospank has pictures of him. It is documented, you know how reliable they are dont you? That SOB. I heard he was an Iranian too and enjoys torture. He is building a mini nuclear reactor in his basement and refuses to negotiate with anyone. Everyone knows he is only trying to dominate his neighborhood and spread fear, bastard.
I get worked up just thinking about, I cant drive my car thinking it puts money in his pocket, but then what am i going to do buy a camel? I would never sleep at night, what would i feed it. Friggin guy has all the angles covered. He knows it makes me furious.
I cant even talk right right, I will see you guys tomorrow.
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Are all ASR parents like this guy, or is he just special?
Here's another Sleazy Response from TheWho about a sexual abuse victim:
Ha, Ha, Ha............. Sometimes this is too funny! You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha... Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity! You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha
This guy is SICK!
::puke:: ::puke:: ::puke::
Nasty. Who, do you have a bloody clown suit in your closet? You're a sick bastard.