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Messages - hanzomon4

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1321
The Troubled Teen Industry / Carlbrook
« on: December 27, 2006, 05:00:05 PM »
Quote from: ""Charly""
You only get sent back to wilderness for serious violations- such as harming someone or yourself, or absolutely refusing to engage in group sessions or individual sessions with your counselor.
Otherwise, you are put on a program, which can mean writing assignments, chores or meetings with staff and/or students.

Being punished for harming yourself is beyond cruel, it's dangerous. Self injury is a sign that a persons is in great turmoil and possible suicidal do to desperation. Session with a counselor, group or single, should not be forced and certainly not punishable. This demonstrates a great lack of patience, which you need when dealing with anyone who needs counseling. Would it be safe to say that these "counselors" have no real psychiatry credentials from a university? If so they should not be having sessions with anyone, especially when those sessions are forced.      

Quote from: ""Charly""
Kids are sent to a psych facility when they are in any serious danger. Superficial cuts get you sent to wilderness.


This is quiet disturbing, in a highly stressful environment no cut is superficial. Any harm of ones body is a sign of desperation that needs to be taken seriously and not punished!?!?!

I'm not trying to play psychic, but I would not be surprised if there was a successful suicide. I would even say it's a matter of when.... not if.  Charly, Is this place state licensed?

1322
The Troubled Teen Industry / Carlbrook
« on: December 27, 2006, 12:06:30 AM »
Sorry folks it took me a while to get back. I added to my post only to realize I was a few minutes(and a page) late, but I think it's relevant so I'll post the add on here.....



Now when it comes to abuse in these programs it may not fit the mold of what we would normally consider to be abuse.. I'm going to post some quotes from Margaret Thaler Singer's article How Thought Reform works which basically explains why programs using thought-reform  are abusive, dangerous and effective in changing a persons view on everything including a persons self, past and future...
Quote
With coercive persuasion you can change people's attitudes without their knowledge and volition. You can create new "attitudes" where they will do things willingly which they formerly may have detested, things which previously only torture, physical pain, or drugs could have coerced them to do.
Quote
Coercive persuasion or thought reform as it is sometimes known, is best understood as a coordinated system of graduated coercive influence and behavior control designed to deceptively and surreptitiously manipulate and influence individuals, usually in a group setting, in order for the originators of the program to profit in some way, normally financially or politically.
Quote
There are seven main tactic types found in various combinations in a coercive persuasion program. A coercive persuasion program can still be quite effective without the presence of ALL seven of these tactic types.

TACTIC 1. The individual is prepared for thought reform through increased suggestibility and/or "softening up," specifically through hypnotic or other suggestibility-increasing techniques such as: A. Extended audio, visual, verbal, or tactile fixation drills; B. Excessive exact repetition of routine activities; C. Decreased sleep; D. Nutritional restriction.

TACTIC 2. Using rewards and punishments, efforts are made to establish considerable control over a person's social environment, time, and sources of social support. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with family and friends is abridged, as is contact with persons who do not share group-approved attitudes. Economic and other dependence on the group is fostered. (In the forerunner to coercive persuasion, brainwashing, this was rather easy to achieve through simple imprisonment.)

TACTIC 3. Disconfirming information and nonsupporting opinions are prohibited in group communication. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. An "in-group" language is usually constructed.

TACTIC 4. Frequent and intense attempts are made to cause a person to re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize and undermine the subject's basic consciousness, reality awareness, world view, emotional control, and defense mechanisms as well as getting them to reinterpret their life's history, and adopt a new version of causality.

TACTIC 5. Intense and frequent attempts are made to undermine a person's confidence in himself and his judgment, creating a sense of powerlessness.

TACTIC 6. Nonphysical punishments are used such as intense humiliation, loss of privilege, social isolation, social status changes, intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques for creating strong aversive emotional arousals, etc.

TACTIC 7. Certain secular psychological threats [force] are used or are present: That failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief, or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequence, (e.g. physical or mental illness, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, drug dependence, economic collapse, social failure, divorce, disintegration, failure to find a mate, etc.).


I would suggest that, sense you're helping other families find good programs, that you read the whole article.

 Now If any facility uses these tactics(many do) then, regardless of their intentions, it's wrong. I believe that thought-reform is what makes abusive facilities so difficult to shutdown or reform because:
  • The abuse that's alleged, in most cases, is central to the successful use of thought-reform. Tactic 6 contains what most survivors describe here on this forum.
  • Those who's thought's are reformed will be pro-program no matter what. This accounts for two people giving completely different  reports about the same program, one glowing the  other horrifying. This makes it difficult for teen advocates because basically you have a he said she said situation, and most would believe the "reformed" over the "manipulator"
Now only you and your son knows what his program was like, so was it abusive? Does his experience fit any of the tactic types listed above? I don't know, this is my first time hearing of Carlbrook. However if Carlbrook operates like a WWASPS, a Straight spin-off, or basically uses any of these tactic types(in any varying combination) I would have to conclude that yes the school abuses children in an effort to change their behavior using thought-reform, it's abusive, wrong and dangerous. The pervasive use of thought-reform makes me pause  when ever I hear someone claim that "the program allowed me to get where I am today".

1323
The Troubled Teen Industry / Carlbrook
« on: December 26, 2006, 09:27:51 PM »
I find it odd that your son spent so much time away from home, 15 > 17 and only a summer at home before leaving again. That is really beyond the scope of this discussion so I won't go into it...

I noticed in your post that your son says that he understands that "Carlbrook allowed him to get where he is today". I can't take that seriously because it's part of the program that you believe that. Now I will admit I don't know Carlbrook's specifics but from what I do know Carlbrook seems to fit the mold of most abusive(which I'll define later) facilities. The main characteristic of such schools is the use of thought-reform, and when it comes to thought-reform I have to look at the program through cult-aware lenses. I don't know your history(100 pages is alot of reading, even for me) but from what I've read on the last 2-3 pages it appears to me that he owes nothing to Carlbrook. You describe him to be self motivated and I would attribute his success to that character trait...

Now when it comes to abuse in these programs it may not fit the mold of what we would normally consider to be abuse.. I'm going to post some quotes from Margaret Thaler Singer's article How Thought Reform works which bascially explains why programs using thought-reform  are abusive, dangerous and effective in changing a persons view on everything including a persons self, past and future...
Quote
With coercive persuasion you can change people's attitudes without their knowledge and volition. You can create new "attitudes" where they will do things willingly which they formerly may have detested, things which previously only torture, physical pain, or drugs could have coerced them to do.
Quote
Coercive persuasion or thought reform as it is sometimes known, is best understood as a coordinated system of graduated coercive influence and behavior control designed to deceptively and surreptitiously manipulate and influence individuals, usually in a group setting, in order for the originators of the program to profit in some way, normally financially or politically.
Quote
There are seven main tactic types found in various combinations in a coercive persuasion program. A coercive persuasion program can still be quite effective without the presence of ALL seven of these tactic types.

TACTIC 1. The individual is prepared for thought reform through increased suggestibility and/or "softening up," specifically through hypnotic or other suggestibility-increasing techniques such as: A. Extended audio, visual, verbal, or tactile fixation drills; B. Excessive exact repetition of routine activities; C. Decreased sleep; D. Nutritional restriction.

TACTIC 2. Using rewards and punishments, efforts are made to establish considerable control over a person's social environment, time, and sources of social support. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with family and friends is abridged, as is contact with persons who do not share group-approved attitudes. Economic and other dependence on the group is fostered. (In the forerunner to coercive persuasion, brainwashing, this was rather easy to achieve through simple imprisonment.)

TACTIC 3. Disconfirming information and nonsupporting opinions are prohibited in group communication. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. An "in-group" language is usually constructed.

TACTIC 4. Frequent and intense attempts are made to cause a person to re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize and undermine the subject's basic consciousness, reality awareness, world view, emotional control, and defense mechanisms as well as getting them to reinterpret their life's history, and adopt a new version of causality.

TACTIC 5. Intense and frequent attempts are made to undermine a person's confidence in himself and his judgment, creating a sense of powerlessness.

TACTIC 6. Nonphysical punishments are used such as intense humiliation, loss of privilege, social isolation, social status changes, intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques for creating strong aversive emotional arousals, etc.

TACTIC 7. Certain secular psychological threats [force] are used or are present: That failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief, or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequence, (e.g. physical or mental illness, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, drug dependence, economic collapse, social failure, divorce, disintegration, failure to find a mate, etc.).


I would suggest that, sense you're helping other families find good programs, that you read the whole article.

 Now If any facility uses these tactics(many do) then, regardless of their intentions, it's wrong. I believe that thought-reform is what makes abusive facilities so difficult to shutdown or reform because:
  • The abuse that's alleged, in most cases, is central to the successful use of thought-reform. Tactic 6 contains what most survivors describe here on this forum.
  • Those who's thought's are reformed will be pro-program no matter what. This accounts for two people giving completely different  reports about the same program, one glowing the  other horrifying. This makes it difficult for teen advocates because basically you have a he said she said situation, and most would believe the "reformed" over the "manipulator"
Now only you and your son knows what his program was like, so was it abusive? Does his experience fit any of the tactic types listed above? I don't know, this is my first time hearing of Carlbrook. However if Carlbrook operates like a WWASPS, a Straight spin-off, or basically uses any of these tactic types(in any varying combination) I would have to conclude that yes the school abuses children in an effort to change their behavior using thought-reform, it's abusive, wrong and dangerous. The pervasive use of thought-reform makes me pause  when ever I hear someone claim that "the program allowed me to get where I am today".

1324
The Troubled Teen Industry / Carlbrook
« on: December 26, 2006, 07:59:58 PM »
@Charly: it was me who brought up the money(:EDIT:My bad Deb I saw just saw were you brought it up), and no I was not talking about the staff. Programs hire unqualified people because they don't have to pay them what they would a professional. The money bags are the owners/founders.

Also breaking a person down may happen in the military, but the military ain't therapy. In fact you have to meet certain psychological requirements, which can be quite strenuous, to enter the military. The military is not for people with mental health issues. If you take a person suffering from depression, OCD, eating disorders, bipolar disorder, or any other mental health issue and place them in the stressful and punitive environment of a boot-camp or wilderness program for treatment you put them at great risk. People with mental health issues can not just change their behavior because you place them in a highly stressful environment. The stressful environment of wilderness and boot-camp programs is the worst place for them because the mentally ill don't do well under stress, that's why they can't join the army.

Now for kids with behavioral problems, not linked to a mental health condition, a boot-camp will only take them out of there environment. However when they return home if the home environment is unchanged the same behavior will start back up again. Thats because behaviors are dependent on ones environment, behavior is reactionary in nature. Like I stated in my last post, therapy not focused on the why is not therapy. The notion that "your bad choices is the reason for your problems" is blind in one eye. True you can control what you choose, but the question is not can you it's why do you choose the choices you choose. Taking the punitive approach to behavior problems will always cause the why to be neglected or relegated to second fiddle in contrast to the behavior.

One thing I hear quiet often from program supporters is "he/she is doing good now, so the program must have helped". Well, kids doing well post-program is not the measuring stick one should use to measure whether or not a program is abusive. Rape survivors can do well... Child abuse survivors can do well... People can do well after having an abusive  experience and like me and others have said growing up changes behavior without a doubt.

Charly, you made an interesting statement about your intentions for sending your son to a wilderness(?) program:
Quote from: ""Charly""
As a parent, I don't regret spending the money for my son to be someplace where he had a chance to mature

 I can't knock you for that statement, as it takes alot for a parent to admit that they could not provide the proper environment for their child. I have some questions regarding the environment you felt he could not mature in, but I want to make it clear that in my opinion there's no reason to send a child to a punitive environment for maturing. Boarding schools do exist that have, trained and qualified teachers, an academic focus, and seek to build up the child, not break them down.  

My questions:
  • What specifically was the problem at home to give you the impression that your son needed the punitive environment of a wilderness camp, or boot-camp, in order for him to mature?
  • What actions did you take to change your  environment before coming to the conclusion that he needed to be sent away?
  • How long did it take for you to realize that you needed to change your environment and how long did you attempt to change your environment before sending him off?
  • After you sent him away did you continue trying to change your environment so that he could come back home without facing the same conditions that prompted his behavior?
  • Why was it necessary to send him back to a/the program?
  • How would you feel if you had to experience your teen years in a punitive environment such as a boot-camp or wilderness program?
  • What was the age of your son we he went into the program/s and what was his age after leaving the program/s for good?
  • After the program/s did he live with you?

Charly, I really want to thank you for posting here. You post here knowing that most of us will feel that you made at best a mistake and at worst condone child abuse in the name of treatment, and while I disagree with you I do appreciate you for  being willing to discuss this.

1325
The Troubled Teen Industry / Carlbrook
« on: December 26, 2006, 12:37:47 PM »
This post is me finishing up my previous post(8 posts up)........

The reason why Programs use the Battered Woman Syndrome(BWS) or thought-reform model and accept kids with issues like depression, behaviors such as game-addition, behavior caused by parental or sexual abuse, homosexuality, and eating disorders is simple... Money.. Programs make money by enrolling as many kids as possible and keeping them as long as possible. Hiring educated counselors and staff cost money, money that would come out of the programs profit so they don't hire educated, qualified professionals. "Tough-love" therapy is the "enzyte" of options offered to parents with troubled teens. "Tough-love" therapy promises the results that the more traditional therapies will not. However "Tough-love" therapy is a silver bullet made out of foil paper, it makes claims that it can't live up to.

The "supporting of the program" as a requirement to succeed in the program is necessary for the program to appear as though it's affective in lieu of objective evidence supporting that claim. Most professionals believe that the Tough-love approach is ineffective and counter intuitive to it's stated goal of improving the behavior of a child, and even makes bad behavior worse. Despite this fact, desperate parents are willing to accept the frivolous claims offered by "Tough-love" programs.

Children also believe that these programs where necessary for them to change their behavior, partially because believing this is part of the program and because many kids do get better. However kids doing well post-program is somewhat misleading. Most kids would be doing fine whether they were in a program, or not, because kids grow up. The change that comes with maturity is great and can make bad kids into upstanding adults. I'm sure most parents who send their kids off to "Tough-love" programs can look back and see a radical change in their life during the teen years and again once they became parents. The teen-help industry does not acknowledge this fact and society peddles the fallacy that kids today are the worst generation of all time. According to Szalavitz
Quote
Statistics show today's teen is less likely to have unsafe sex or experiment with alcohol and most drugs than teens 20 years ago
LINK
However parents still believe that their "problem child" is headed towards ruin and, in ever increasing numbers, ship their children(and money) off to "Tough-love" camps to save them from a paper tiger.

It's true that some kids do need therapy and are headed towards ruin, but boot-camps and wilderness programs don't offer real therapy. This is evident in the fact that they claim to be able to fix just about anything and hire untrained staff, in most cases, the owners being untrained themselves. True therapy asks why, "Tough-love" programs say "you will obey or else". Well that sums up my 2 cents... I hope that more parents will act, not out of desperation, but out of factually based truths. Your child may need help but anyone offering the magic answer is not the answer to your child's behavior...

1326
The Troubled Teen Industry / Carlbrook
« on: December 26, 2006, 10:57:15 AM »
Quote from: ""Oz Girlt""
One idea that interests me is one of a kid not buying in to the programme or faking it to make it. Putting aside for a moment whether or not programmes are abusive etc- if a kid is not buying in, trying etc  a therapy which they did not choose, why would the school and the parent see the merit in making the kid continue or making it a reward punishment situation? Eg if you dont do it we will send you to a wilderness program till you do. If the goal is to make someone better and what is being done is not working after some time then what makes a parent continue?
Oz Girl


Well like I said thats not therapy, nor does it have any meaningful positive effects. The improvement of a kids behavior after being in these facilities is mostly from growing up and not being in the same environment in my opinion. It seems like parents favor Bully therapy over good therapy because it's more about getting the kid to comply as opposed to getting to the root of a child's behavior, a path that requires patience. Bully therapy requires little to no patience from the parent. I think the lack of patience amongst desperate parents is supported by what most parent say about more traditional therapy  "I've tried counseling  but it was ineffective"... Did it not work or did it not work fast enough? When I was receiving counseling for clinical depression I wasn't seeing any improvement. It took me 5 years before I start to see results.

I'm not saying that parents who choose placement in residential programs are bad people, I'm just saying that desperation causes parents to lose their patience and seek out those that promise "change through cutting edgy therapy". Kids that claim to have improved because of the program are basically giving credit to the program when that credit actually belongs to growing up. The Program is constantly driving this point home.... The "we're saving you" point.

Whats so dangerous about crediting the Program for the change in a kid's behavior is that it justifies "abuse in the name of treatment" in the eyes of the parent and the child. Parents must realize that "Tough-love" programs sell compliance, not therapy. Kids need to understand that the harsh wilderness/boot-camp experience was not necessary for them to change their behavior. In a news article on Thayer a girl said that she was forced to eat her own vomit but thought that, in the end, it was all for the better. Her statement proves my point that, even in cases of extreme abuse, kids are willing to accept "abuse in the name of treatment" as necessary.  The attitude that harsh programs(programs like what Charly described, not Thayer) are ok is a slippery slope because it recedes the line of what we will and won't accept, allowing programs to get worse yet still have parental(and child) approval

1327
The Troubled Teen Industry / Carlbrook
« on: December 25, 2006, 01:12:22 PM »
Happy xmas folks........

I just found this thread and have not read through everything, so here goes.... I'm really not surprized too hear about kids who:
  • Are doing well
  • Feel that, despite any ill treatment, it was for the best
Here's my reasoning, If a kid is not "with" the program they suffer a consequence(real bad shit). When a kid "is with" the program they gain something(level, privilege)... Basic BM.
Now considering the fact that what happens in most bootcamps(stress positions, pain compliance, etc) and wilderness camps(forced marches and such) would be illegal if done by the State to say prisoners, I would think that it's fair to say that what these kids go through must be pretty traumatic.

I'm going somewhere with this so keep reading please... What does the program demand of the student for that student to avoid the bad stuff and get the good stuff?........
In most of the programs I know about it's usually something like this:
   
  • I've made bad choices
  • I've hurt my family
  • I've hurt my self
  • All of my problems(at home, at school, in the program, etc) are because of my bad choices
  • The program is my only hope
  • and it's saving me

Ok that's^^^ not therapy.... When you go to therapy you(and your licensed therapist) try to find out what is causing your behavior..... More on this later

The question from the convinced parent maybe "how could my son feel that this was all for the best, and hold some of his handle... counselors in such high esteem if he was abused?!?!
Easy, look at the battered woman syndrome... BWS happens in 3 stages:
  • Tension - "woman you're doing that thing that pisses me off"
  • Eruption -
    [li] The Honeymoon - "You know, I only do this because I love you so much"
The following is the characteristics of a battered woman:
Quote from: ""What is Battered Woman's Syndrome?""
1. The woman believes that the violence was her fault.
2. The woman has an inability to place the responsibility for the violence elsewhere.
3. The woman fears for her life and/or her children's lives.
4. The woman has an irrational belief that the abuser is omnipresent and omniscient.

Sorry for the BWS 101..... This model relates to the "teen-help" business in a very disturbing way.

  • Number 1 on the BWS quote correlates to the therapeutic approach in most facilities:
    • It's your fault by default The goal in most facilites is to teach that your pAiN is because of your bAd choices. This is not working on your kids problems because the question "why do you behave this way" is never asked or only asked after they have instilled self blame[/u], not to be confused with self responsibility  

  • Number 2 on the BWS correlates, again, to the non-therapeutic approach of most facilities:
    • Say thats it's all your fault or face the consequences This is the Bat Signal of untrained and unqualified to treat your child. This is bully therapy that insures that, by the end of "treatment", the student will see it the way the "therapist"  does, or "we'll need to keep him longer due to lack of progress"

  • Number 3 & 4 is what you ultimately get when you give strangers total control over your children
    • We will use any means to break you and the eyes of your peers belong to us Forced marches, Stress positions, Forced  Labor, Forced Exercise to the point of misery.. The Program controls when you eat, sleep, and shit.. Do anything to be considered not being with the program and you'd have ten kids trying to capitalize on your transgression just to gain the program's favor, and hopefully their freedom.
      Quote from: ""Charly""
      He said that kids were encouraged to snitch- in some cases kids felt empowered by the ability to rat out others and advance themselves in the program
      Quote from: ""Charly""
      He, personally, refused to do this and suffered consequences as a result
      They may not fear death, but their life is controlled by strangers, untrained one's who are trying to break them....  omnipresent and omniscient? Yes..
[/li][/li][/list][/list]

Where there's a stick you will find a carrot, "the levels"... The Honeymoon phase I referred to earlier.. This is necessary because it means that the program gave them something. So it goes from you choices BaD! Make world angry :flame: to Program choices GoOd  ::bigsmilebounce::
Levels=Positive reinforcement for taking the abuse, "Beat up wife... I love you"

I have to go but I will address why Programs use this model and why they will take in kids with.....
Drug habits-Game habits-Tourette Syndrome-Depression(can you spell suicide.... WWASPS, we cure depression  ::bangin::    :cry: )-Not fucked up?!? We'll correct that habits-And STDs  ::puke::
See ya in a few....


Forgot to add Why I'm not surprised to hear that some kids are doing great after being in abusive programs..... It's because their Teens... i.e Not finished growing yet.
I changed alot between the ages of 12 and 20.. Believe it or not most kids will grow-up and became Barack Obamas, for even he smoked a joint or two

1328
World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) / TB Mom's Thread: Split from Experiences
« on: December 22, 2006, 06:42:08 PM »
Hey, she doesn't owe anyone here anything, so please stop trying to bully her. When I first learned about this issue I was pissed and wanted to rip the head off of any parent that sent their kids to places like TB.

Now I realize that these places are master exploiters, feeding the fires of desperation burning in the guts of parents. If she was trying to justify and hold herself above responsibility I could understand you all beating up on her. But she's not doing any of that she admits that she made the mistake and that it was wrong. She can't undo that mistake, but she has taken the steps to right it>>
  • Her son is out ]she tried to help inform other parents,
  • and she has shared her story with us.
Come on folks lets just be glad that one parent and one kid is free.... thanks to all of you here who inform us about places like TB  
 ::cheers::

1329
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / what happened to shad farmer?
« on: December 21, 2006, 05:31:09 PM »
So sorry to hear that, how old was he and how long had he been out of the program?

Also is there any site that documents all of the program related suicides. I know that it's a very real possibility but it's hard to know how common this is.

1330
World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) / TB Mom from Niles
« on: December 21, 2006, 05:14:44 PM »
Nihilanthic, I think she'll get it in time..... I'm just glad you(jnz) got him out. You(jnz) did send him there and he knows that... He also know that you got him out and that you believed him. I think that will go a long way in you earning his trust again and also in forgiving yourself for sending him there.

If, or when, he gets mad at you just except his anger and allow him to express it openly and honestly without taking it personal. You made a big mistake, but you were duped by very intelligent crooks who preyed upon your desperation. So don't feel guilty beacause that helps no one. Use this experience to educate others so that they won't make the same mistake you made.

The only way to bring about change is to confront ignorance, apathy, and indifference. Your most powerful weapon is your voice, so use it.

1331
World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) / TB Mom's Thread: Split from Experiences
« on: December 20, 2006, 11:07:21 PM »
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penal""
Jesus fuck it only gets worse.

Jnzmom, what did the other parents say when you contacted them? Will any of them be pulling their kids? Are any of them coming to Fornits? You're in a rather unique position right now so please pardon me if I ask you to use it.


I would suggest sending them to the Isaccorp site. Not that this place is bad, but the information on the Isaccorp site is much more organized and easier to read through

1332
World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) / Re: Home
« on: December 19, 2006, 03:49:52 PM »
Quote from: ""jnzmom""
Well, Josh is home.    Before my post was deleted from BBS and now banned from it.   I reached out to parents to email me if they were interested on knowing the truth why josh was pulled.  have had over 35 parents wanting to hear.    I replied to each one.   Its up to them of course, but I put the word out.


JNZOM


 You fuck'in rock ::rocker::

1333
Thayer Learning Center / My Son At Thayer
« on: December 18, 2006, 08:37:15 PM »
I've been looking in to TBS like Thayer, WWASP, and others for the past year and believe me the damage done to these kids is very real and complex. Nemo, your son may appear to be doing well but like others have said it will take sometime for him to come to terms with his experience. If you are a loving parent please be willing to take what many survivors are saying seriously, and be willing to listen to your son and offer him support if he comes to you to speak about his Thayer experience.

If any of you feel attacked at this site vist the isaccorp's website . It has great documentation and you can read up on many facilities like Thayer. One thing you'll notice is that the abuse claims are all very similar, across time and facilities. Many of the facilities use the same kinds of tactics. Even the death's that occur happen under similar circumstances and the following excuses are usually given.
  • "it was an accident"
  • "he/she was unhealthy"
  • "she was in the wrong program"
  • "he never complained of any problem"
Look at Martian Lee Anderson, if his beating wasn't caught on tape his death would have fallen under the same accuses. It's sad that it took a "video taped" death to cause Florida to rethink it's bootcamp system. However it seems that this kind of proof is the only thing the Government and parents(like yourself) will believe.

Someone made the comment that one death is not reason enough to shutdown the "teen-help" industry, and that any problems can be fixed. I'm sorry but the ones who keep fighting independent oversight is the teen-help industry. They are the ones who hire untrained staff. They are the ones who use fraudulent business practices to get kids in to their programs. The teen-help industry don't want it fixed because they are making good money with the current system. Also death is not the only bad outcome, ptsd is very common amongst kids who end up in places like Thayer. Suicide and drug use are other pitfalls many survivors face. Ptsd-related to stays in TBS may not make the headlines, but the impact on the survivor and their family is great.. even greater then death, because the dead don't scream at night, they don't have flash backs of abuse and humiliation, the dead don't try to kill themselves because they're in pain that no one acknowledges.  

Believe me and the people here when we say that the teen-help industry sees your children as commodities, money wrapped in flesh.

1334
World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) / TB Mom's Thread: Split from Experiences
« on: December 16, 2006, 04:00:40 PM »
jnzmom, I'm so glad that you pulled your son from TB.. For the past few months I've been researching the "teen-help" industry and reading horror story after horror story has been a very emotionally taxing experience. Finally seeing a good story(well, good considering the circumstances) is like Christmas come early.

I wish you and your son luck!

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