Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: thanks:-) on July 07, 2007, 04:39:12 PM
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Has anyone been to this place? Can you tell me anything about it good or bad?
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Is this a joke? Isn't that the name of a witches cat? Or another name for the Devil?
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http://http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/devilsconvention.html
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The mental illness never ends at Hephzibah House! (http://http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/subverting.html)
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This is unbelievable!!!!!!
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It's actually pretty commonplace.
I bet that smacktard wrote the "don't you dare interfere with parents!" article after some aunt stopped her niece from going there... (HINT, HINT)
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Nope it's not a joke. My niece is being sent there. I'm trying to stop it. The place looks awful. I'm trying to find someone who has actually stayed there so that I can convince my sister of how abusive it most likely is.
Good luck on that.. The odds of you finding someone who went to a particular place on Fornits is actually rather low, considering how often these places pop up and go away (kinda like playing whack-a-mole).
The reality is this: There is less difference between these places than you'd guess. It's the same shit everywhere. Brainwashing and humiliation are the same everywhere you go. It's the exact same story over and over again (right down to the recruiting tactics used on parents), so one survivor can take the place of another.
Let's see, how many red flags does this particular place raise... http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.c ... rents.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/GuidelinesForParents.html)
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Why don't you just print some articles on the abuses at WWASP facilities, that ought to be enough to make anyone sick to their stomach. Tell her how her next visit with her daughter may be at the morg.
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READ ON.
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Huge red flag: What isn't on the online photos?
http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/photos.html (http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/photos.html)
Seriously, how can these people be so vain as to take pictures of themselves, but not of the facility?
I'm not asking for pictures of the girls; if I want those I'll go to where these people post them (12chan). But they can't post pics of the facility?
I wonder why not?
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Hey, lookie here!
http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/offerings.html (http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/offerings.html)
What do their clothing requirements contain? What do they NOT contain?
Oh yeah, I bet your sister will absolutely LOVE to read this:
http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/tracts/02 ... ecies.html (http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/tracts/020EndangeredSpecies.html)
As usual, the best evidence for not sending the kid to this hellhole is on the programmies' own site. Who'da thunk it?
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http://http://hephzibah.org/employment.htm
Check this out Auntie.
They make no mention of having any prior qualifications in this field, only a want to learn. Yes, your sister will be placing her daughter in unqualified hands, that's how kids die. [/url]
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Good luck on that.. The odds of you finding someone who went to a particular place on Fornits is actually rather low, considering how often these places pop up and go away (kinda like playing whack-a-mole).
Far too true. Often I wish there were fewer civil, and more criminal prosecution against these schools, but even then, staff and/or student graduates often get the idea to go off and start their own places.
oh dear god...
this place is just fucked up wrong:
http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/tracts/01 ... women.html (http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/tracts/018Doublemindedwomen.html)
Does it make sense for a Christian woman to cover her body with modest, Godly clothing then take these clothes off to participate in mixed swimming wearing the equivalent of colored underwear? That is an absolute contradiction of standards and another aspect of feminine divided personality. If a man's eyes are filled with lust when he views parts of our bodies that should only be seen by our husband (Matthew 5:38, Proverbs 27:20), then how can we justify the wearing of swimming apparel in mixed swimming? You may say, "Well, I am too old to make any difference, I have huge bulges, varicose veins, fat pockets, etc." Dear lady, you are then a disgusting sight in a bathing suit! If you still have retained your figure, then you are physically attractive and you are defrauding men and will stand in judgment before the Lord for causing a man to stumble (II Corinthians 5:10). If you are aware of what you are doing to men, and do it anyway, then you are in severe rebellion, and "rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft" (1 Samuel 15:23).
and that is written by the wife, in this delightful program couple.
This one is by the husband:
Mixed swimming might more honestly and more appropriate be termed "mixed nudity." How else can we be consistent and morally honest with our Biblical heritage of holiness? Popularity of and acceptance of mixed swimming notwithstanding, it is wicked, morally indefensible and behavior that ought not to be named among true believers.
Many nineteenth century believers were aflame with missionary zeal and a God-given desire to live holy lives. May I say they would be scandalized in the extreme were they to see contemporary believers shamelessly cavorting around in modern swim wear, unblushingly exposing major portions of their body for all who wish to see. Are they prudish and Victorian, and are we more enlightened as we recreate in various degrees of nakedness? May I submit we have become desensitized to sin and have adopted the ways of the heathen! Moody, Spurgeon and their contemporaries would be justified in crying out against our shameless nakedness.
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Sadly, many believers would only be ashamed at the type of garment in a wrong setting, not at the exposure of their nakedness. The same woman who would rather die than expose herself to the eyes of men while in her foundation garments, will then thoughtlessly and shamelessly expose herself simply because she is wearing what is called swim wear. Dearly beloved, the sin and scandal is not in wearing inappropriate garments on wrong social occasions, but in the nakedness itself!
fucking insane...
and here is his opinion of where a woman should be in the home:
This world, the flesh and Satan wish women to be "independent." However, Scripture mandates that a woman is to be "dependent," first on her father, then on her husband (1 Corinthians 7:25-38; Ephesians 5:22-24). A woman created by God to be home-centered (Titus 2:3-5) is ill-suited for the predatory, Machiavellian, and "dog-eat-dog" business world. It is difficult enough for a man to survive in this hostile, wicked environment. She is far better suited to provide an "Elim in the wilderness" for him, a place of respite and peace called his home, where he will be welcomed with warmth and affection. Here, he can bask in the warm glow of domestic felicity, for which she has been made by God to provide.
I couldn't write better satire.
I can't even imagine what their sex-life is life, if they even have one.
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They probably use a sheet between them with a hole in the center. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Tell us how it goes.
Remember, it's his own words that damn him the most.
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Yup, keep us posted.
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Please tell me this place is made up..
From what little I know about the Christian lock ups with this kind of think I would be taking a trip to Mexico as soon as possible. The focus they have on sex is unhealthy and makes me believe that this could be a place where sexual abuse is very possible if not likely. I'm thinking New Bethany (http://http://groups.msn.com/SurvivorsofNewBethany/yourwebpage.msnw) the Roloff homes (http://http://www.isaccorp.org/vca/lester-roloff.11.17.02.html) and Victory Christian Academy (http://http://www.isaccorp.org/victorychristianacademy.asp). This place is part of a fundamentalist Baptist church, these churches believe in beating kids and the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests is looking into wide spread sexual abuse in these churches. I feel bad for your niece, if you can't help her avoid this place try to prepare her for what may be waiting for her. Is your sister sick or just desperate for help?
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It's real. Go to the sites posted here and read on my brother.
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Nope it's not a joke. My niece is being sent there. I'm trying to stop it. The place looks awful. I'm trying to find someone who has actually stayed there so that I can convince my sister of how abusive it most likely is. But thanks for making me laugh guys:-)
you should contact isaccorp
http://www.isaccorp.org/ (http://www.isaccorp.org/)
they are the most likely to be able to tell you if the owners have been associated with anywhere else awful or if there are any other horror stories. Get as much info as possible on similar places bby googling Mountain part academy and roloff homes. Isaccorpalso has a lot of alarming info. Given that anyone considering this program is likely to be a capital B bible beater it might be an idea to contact your sister's parish priest or minister and as sincerely as you can share your concerns. They might be someone your sister listens to. Good luck
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HEAL ONLINE
http://www.heal-online.org/teen.htm (http://www.heal-online.org/teen.htm)
Read the report:
HELL CAMPS FOR JESUS
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Where is the father at? Is he gone, involved in the girl's life?
Maybe if Mom won't listen hopefully the father will.
I sure hope your niece does not go there, I can't believe the stuff that is said, on the ::jawdrop:: website.
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Hello Aunt -
Do what ever you can to slow things down until your sister has had a chance to come to her senses.
Maybe point out to her that sending her daughter to a hyper strict and punitive "Christian" program is more than likely to make the girl turn away from her faith and feel life long fear and distrust of all things Christian.
You might want to get her a copy of Jesus Land. If you want the copy I just finished let me know.
I found it very well written but very sad - as a Christian who feels much maligned by these hateful sadistic creeps calling themselves "Christian" I found the book most distressing.
Maybe it would help your sister see the other side of such a program - how much harm they can do in Christ's name.
Here is the web site for the survivors of the so called Christian program
www.nhym-alumni.org (http://www.nhym-alumni.org)
You can read several survivor testimonies there - and I would hope it would force your sister to see that great caution must be exercised and the child's health and safety are by no means assured just because these people use Jesus as a selling point.
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The quote on the website is from Isaiah 62:4... It relates (in some interpretations) to demonic posession, specifically, deliverance from demons:
http://www.isaiah624.org/ (http://www.isaiah624.org/)
This chills me to the bone.
or Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.
062:002 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.
062:003 Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.
062:004 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
062:005 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
062:006 I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence,
062:007 And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth.
062:008 The LORD hath sworn by his right hand, and by the arm of his strength, Surely I will no more give thy corn to be meat for thine enemies; and the sons of the stranger shall not drink thy wine, for the which thou hast laboured:
062:009 But they that have gathered it shall eat it, and praise the LORD; and they that have brought it together shall drink it in the courts of my holiness.
062:010 Go through, go through the gates; prepare ye the way of the people; cast up, cast up the highway; gather out the stones; lift up a standard for the people.
062:011 Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
062:012 And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.
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:rofl:
That shit doesn't work on us.
(CAPTCHA contains 999.)
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The quote on the website is from Isaiah 62:4... It relates (in some interpretations) to demonic posession, specifically, deliverance from demons:
http://www.isaiah624.org/ (http://www.isaiah624.org/)
This chills me to the bone.
or Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.
062:002 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.
062:003 Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.
062:004 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
062:005 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
062:006 I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence,
062:007 And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth.
062:008 The LORD hath sworn by his right hand, and by the arm of his strength, Surely I will no more give thy corn to be meat for thine enemies; and the sons of the stranger shall not drink thy wine, for the which thou hast laboured:
062:009 But they that have gathered it shall eat it, and praise the LORD; and they that have brought it together shall drink it in the courts of my holiness.
062:010 Go through, go through the gates; prepare ye the way of the people; cast up, cast up the highway; gather out the stones; lift up a standard for the people.
062:011 Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
062:012 And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.
I disagree strongly with that interpretation of Isaiah 62.
This is very simply about God's intention to redeem Israel and Jerusalem; to once again make the land blessed and prosperous, and peaceful. He has already gathered the people back to the land, from all the Nations, as He said he would. Israel is once again a Nation, as He said it would be - even though it didn't exist for nearly two thousand years - and no nation has ever, in all of history, been "re-born" after being destroyed and its people scattered. Israelis speak Biblical Hebrew - like He said they would - even though no dead language has ever before in history come back to common use. Already the once desolate land is blossoming and fruitful, like He told us us it would be - forsaken and desolate tho it was, for countless generations. And Jerusalem is the center of world politics - just like He said she would be. And altho the prophets tell us there is coming a day when the worlds armies will be gathered against her yet again, I feel confident - Jerusalem will not fall - and one day, she will be most blessed of all cities, and Israel of all nations, and there will be Peace all over the world - b/c He said so. This is what Isaiah is telling us about.
The bride and bridegroom analogy is a common prophetic language symbolizing God's relationship with Israel - and the church.
Nothing about this passage has anything to do with the demonic.
If you want the verses concerning these things I mention, just ask.
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I disagree strongly with that interpretation of Isaiah 62.
Totally agree... and so does this scholar (http://http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/files/isaiah624.pdf) (paper from jstor)
... but it appears the above website isn't the only one that thinks it's about throwing out demons:
http://www.bobsanders.org/ministry.htm (http://www.bobsanders.org/ministry.htm)
bible study on the subject (http://http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:RekND0tBYp4J:princesjoy.newsongintl.org/extdocs/Prologue.%2520chp%25201.%2520bib%2520study.%2520exp%2520for%2520on-line.doc+isaiah+62:4+demon)
There are more. It appears loyalty to state is analogous to loyalty to husband, casting out foreigners analogous to casting out demons (goddamn mexicans! I knew it! ;) ).
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This is from one of the testimonies (Mary Speckels) on the site:
Parents read carefully:
"I was listening to the devil's music without my family knowing. Because of the tension I was creating in the home, I deceived myself into believing that the family would do better without me. After being gone a week and a half, with someone the devil provided to lead me astray, my dad and sister came up with a plan to take me to Hephzibah House.
...
[bla bla bla jesus bla bla]
...
When I got to Hephzibah House, I was so angry and prideful I would not admit I had done anything wrong. However, a backslidden Christian cannot be under such solid Biblical preaching and not feel convicted. The Holy Spirit was working in me, and I finally broke. I humbled myself before the Lord and asked Him to forgive me for being such a disobedient child both to my parents and to Him.
I will never be able to express the gratitude I feel, for everything the staff did for me. I greatly appreciated the trust they placed in me when I was walking with the Lord again. My life was a mess, but God used the staff to help get my eyes back on Christ. The separation from the world, Biblical counseling, and Christian love was what I needed. This last year has been a year of spiritual growth, and I pray that I will continue to grow until the Lord calls me Home." [emphasis added]
::ftard:: ::unhappy::
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Or better yet "Praise the Lord and pass the amunition", or punch, whichever comes first. :rofl:
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Testimony of Sarah Janowski
I am one of those who was raised in a Christian home, and came from a very good church. Even though I had such a good background, I did not take heed to what I was taught.
In about the seventh grade, I started watching my older sister get into serious trouble with wrong friends and relationships with boys. Because I was not right with God, I started to follow in her footsteps because I thought she was "cool." My parents tried to discipline me, but I had such a bad attitude that I just grew to hate them.
Finally my Pastor talked to my parents about sending me to Hephzibah House . My parents did not want to send me away at first, but then they realized that it was best for me.
When I came to Hephzibah, God started working on my heart right away. I realized that I had been so rebellious and needed to be saved. After the first couple of days, Pastor Williams talked to me. I knew I needed to be saved, but my pride held me back. The next week, Pastor Don talked to me in school. I again knew I needed to be saved. The entire time we talked, I fought a battle in my heart. Finally, I knew that if I did not get saved then, I might not have another chance. Right then and there I asked God to forgive me, take away my sin, come into my heart and save me.
From that moment on, I was a different person. I was not perfect, but I wanted to do right. I did not hate my parents anymore, and I came to realize they truly loved me and knew what was best for me.
Because of the staff's fine Christian example, I gave my heart and life to Jesus. Now, I have a longing to do God's will for my life.
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What these kids mean't in their testimonial was that they knew they would never get out alive or until they were 18 if they didn't drink the pink punch. You suppose they make them write that crap as part of their exit? Or they don't get out?
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What exactly is she being sent away for?Unfavorable peer relations,interfaith relationship, too much listening to music that is considered non- christian like?
Not too make fun of the situation but...
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What exactly is she being sent away for?Unfavorable peer relations,interfaith relationship, too much listening to music that is considered non- christian like?
Not too make fun of the situation but...
REALLY petty shit. Kelly can explain.
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Very, very, sad to say the very, very, least.
Kelly, I sent you a PM with Buzzkill's home phone number. I don't think she will mind me giving it to you and she has posted it publicly before.
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Or better yet "Praise the Lord and pass the amunition", or punch, whichever comes first. :rofl:
Maybe it should be called Hezbollah House.
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Or better yet "Praise the Lord and pass the amunition", or punch, whichever comes first. :rofl:
Maybe it should be called Hezbollah House.
:rofl:
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Yes, I thought was funny too, that's why I posted it. I'd like to think I have a pretty good sense of humor. :rofl:
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Very, very, sad to say the very, very, least.
Kelly, I sent you a PM with Buzzkill's home phone number. I don't think she will mind me giving it to you and she has posted it publicly before.
SO BUZZ, did Kelly AKA THE AUNT call you?
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YOU ARE WELCOME.
Send your check to Fornits web forum FUND.
This resource needs to stay up for all parents otherwise this industry might get a foothold.
IT"S ALL UP TO YOU!
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the industry might get a foothold funny that happened 15 - 20 years ago and it just keeps makin more and more dough
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This thread is BULLSHIT! SUCKER! :rofl:
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Even if the OP is a troll (doubtful), this thread still contains a hell of a lot of material about this pedophilic/sexual-control abuse facility.
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Or better yet "Praise the Lord and pass the amunition", or punch, whichever comes first. :rofl:
Maybe it should be called Hezbollah House.
Winner of the thread :exclaim: :exclaim:
::ribbon:: ::ribbon:: ::ribbon:: ::ribbon::
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Glad you liked Hezbollah House. It came to me right away when I saw the name of this shitpit.
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Bummer. I didn't win. :cry2: :cry2:
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CJ
Junior Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 1
Location: Shippensburg, PA
Posted: 08-31-2006 10:03 PM Post subject: Hephzibah House --Kids in danger?
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I'm writing to warn everyone about a "home for wayward girls" in Winona Lake, Indiana, called Hephzibah House, run by a minister named Ronald E Williams.
I am greatly concerned that severe child abuse may be taking place at Hephzibah House, after reading one of Williams' online sermons on childrearing, the "The Correction and Salvation of Children".
In this tract Williams advocates physical correction of children, using a "rod", and advises parents that beatings of up to two hours duration might be necessary in some cases to "break a child's will" .
He also advises the use of the rod on small infants, saying,
"When should a parent start using the rod of correction on a child that the Lord has brought into the family? There is no clear and specific answer to this very good question. However, it is my opinion that the correction of children should start as soon as the need for that correction is made manifest. Every discerning parent who has been blessed with a little child in his home realizes that his initial impression of the sweetness and the innocence of the child is in reality an illusion. A child very quickly demonstrates his fallen, depraved nature and reveals himself to be a selfish little beast in manifold ways. As soon as the child begins to express his own self-will (and this occurs early in life) that child needs to receive correction. My wife and I have a general goal of making sure that each of our children has his will broken by the time he reaches the age of one year. ***** To do this, a child must receive correction when he is a small infant.*****Every parent recognizes that this self-will begins early as he has witnessed his child stiffen his back and boldly demonstrate his rebellion and self-will even though he has been fed, diapered, and cared for in every other physical way."
I truly believe that this guy is DANGEROUS! And, he runs a lockdown facility for girls. It seems he also has a lot of influence around Winona Lake -- apparently he hasn't been investigated in years, despite several allegations of abuse.
Rick, or ANYONE, I hope you will read this and investigate this guy.
Here is the URL for his tract, it's become a bit hard to find online, though he sells it on his website:
http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/correc ... ldren.html (http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/correctionchildren.html)
Here is the URL to Hephzibah House:
http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/ (http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/)
(If you click on Audio-Visual store link on this site you can buy more of his tracts on VHS format for $10 a pop, to watch on your TV (despite the fact that Williams himself condemns TV ownership as a grave sin)
And -- hold onto your lunch -- here is Williams' childrearing tract in its entirety:
The Correction and Salvation of Children
By Ronald E. Williams
Believers Baptist Church, 508 School St., Winona Lake, IN 46590
(219) 269-2376
TWO DIRECTIVES OF SOLOMON FOR THE CORRECTION AND SALVATION OF
CHILDREN
"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him
with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod,
and shalt deliver his soul from hell." Proverbs 23:13,14
THE FIRST DIRECTIVE: The perception of my duty and the promise
involved if I carry out my duty
A. The perception of my duty
"Withhold not correction from the child."
Through a negative admonition, "withhold not," Solomon is
encouraging us to perceive what our duty is with regard to our
child. One might ask, Why is it necessary to be told what our duty
is? Because we would naturally "withhold" instead of obeying. The
Scripture indicates in Proverbs 13:24, "He that spareth his rod,
hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes." Many
parents today are in a position where they Biblically hate their
children because they are not acting against their natural feelings
and disciplining themselves towards the Godly habit-pattern of
consistent correction. In other words, it takes work, wisdom, self
discipline, and
Godliness to correct children the way the Lord wants.
Fight your feelings
The concept of having to be told what to do in order that we can
combat our natural feelings is illustrated in other areas of our
lives. The Lord Jesus, for example, taught in Matthew 5:28 that it
is wrong for a man to look lustfully upon a woman, implicitly
telling us to not do that. One could ask, Why does He teach such a
thing? Because men naturally look upon women in a lustful way. In
fact, any man who claims that he has never had a problem in this
area is either a liar or he is dead! Just as the Scripture
indicates "the eyes of man are never satisfied" (Proverbs 27:20).
Therefore, the Lord, recognizing our weakness, has admonished men
not to look lustfully at women. Men must not operate on the basis of
their natural inclinations, but on the basis of what is right,
controlling their feelings and the flesh in the process.
Another example would be in the area of a man loving his wife. The
Apostle Paul in Ephesians 5:25 says, "Husbands, love your wives even
as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it." Why did
the Spirit of God believe it necessary to instruct a man through the
Apostle Paul to love his wife as Christ loved the church? Because a
man would not naturally do this. A man is naturally in love with
himself even as that same chapter indicates in 5:29: "For no man
ever yet hateth his own flesh but nourisheth and cherisheth it even
as the Lord the church." A man left to his own inclinations and
desires will love himself supremely above all others. A Christian,
however, who is obedient to the Spirit of God and to the Word of
God, will love his wife and not submit to the natural inclination to
love himself first; even as the Lord Jesus demonstrated through His
supreme example in His love for the church. Therefore, when the Lord
gives a negative admonition to parents to "withhold not," it is in
keeping with this Biblical principle of instructing parents to obey
where they will have to overcome their natural inclinations, control
their emotions and do what is right even when they do not feel like.
Whose job?
Who is to perceive this duty that Solomon outlines? The Hebrew
language indicates in this passage through a second person masculine
singular suffix that Solomon is probably addressing a man. The
context of course, would indicate that the father of the household
is the subject of Solomon's admonition. Solomon, in doing this, is
underscoring and agreeing with the rest of Scripture when it teaches
that child-training and education is the primary responsibility of
the father of that child. The primary responsibility for this vital
task is not delegated by God to the mother, Sunday School teacher,
pastor, day school teacher, grandparents, or any other person, but
is the primary responsibility of the father. Obviously, these other
individuals are an invaluable help to the father, especially his
wife, but they are helpers only. A father will stand before the
judgment seat of Christ and give an account for the spiritual,
emotional, and physical welfare and training of his wife and
children. It therefore behooves a father to be extremely judicious
and cautious in whom he selects to be his helpers in the vital task
of training and educating his child. Why?
So as not to compromise the Biblical standard he must inculcate in
his children.
This same principle is especially underscored in Deuteronomy 6:7--
"And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt
talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest
by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up."
Moses in that Old Testament passage uses a similar ending or suffix
on the words in that verse, again indicating that he is addressing
the heads of Hebrew households, or more simply, the fathers of each
family. Moses, as a spokesman, for the Lord, indicated that God
expects the father in the home to diligently train the children in
Godliness and in God's standards.
This concept is not exclusively an Old Testament concept, but is
highlighted again in the New Testament. Ephesians 6:4 states: "And
ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath, but bring them up in
the nurture and admonition of the Lord." The Apostle Paul directly
addresses fathers in this verse and lays the responsibility for
nurture and admonition squarely on their shoulders. So to answer the
question, "Who is to perceive this duty of correction," one must
simply answer, it is the responsibility of the father to perceive
this duty.
What job needs to be done?
Next we need to ask, what is the duty perceived by the father?
Solomon indicates that the duty to be perceived by the father is
something he calls "correction." Correction in the Bible has two
basic ideas. The first idea is training through oral instruction.
This is a vital part of child- training and cannot be neglected lest
the child not receive a balanced instruction from his father. The
Scripture indicates that it is the rod and reproof that gives
wisdom, not the rod alone (Proverbs 29:15). The other aspect of this
word "correction" is training through physical scourging or
chastening. Both concepts are involved.
Who is the object of our attention?
With whom is the duty of correction concerned? This passage
indicates that "the child" is the object of concern with regard to
Godly correction. Many young people, in learning about the Biblical
standard of correction, might well ask, who is a child and who is
not? The Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament
Hebrew Scriptures) uses the word meaning a minor child to translate
this word. One could well ask, how old a child should receive
physical correction? Or, to put it another way, when is a child not
a child?
It is my opinion that the parents of that youngster should decide
when a child is no longer a child and when he should no longer
receive the correction of which Solomon speaks in this passage.
Admittedly, this is not always an easy decision inasmuch as an older
child may do unlawful things that the parent believes should be
corrected by the rod. I would suggest three simple thoughts as
possible helps in determining when a child is no longer a child in
need of physical correction. First, when that child starts paying
his own bills from his own resources he has probably reached the
level of responsibility wherein he will respond better to the
reproofs of life given him by the Lord than he will by the rod of
correction given him by his earthly father. Second, when that child
starts his own household, whether it be as a single adult or as a
married adult, he is quite obviously out of the realm of being
physically corrected. Third, it is my suggestion that a child in
your home be corrected according to his emotional age rather than
his physical age.
In my limited experience, I have often encountered a child who
physically has attained an age many parents would view as being too
old to receive physical correction. However, that same child may be
committing extremely immature and irresponsible acts in his life
that could well benefit from the rod of correction. With these
things in mind, you as a parent can be helped in determining when
physical correction with the rod should be used and when it should
not. These are not guidelines that should be chiseled in stone but
might prove helpful.
One thing is certain, correction with the rod should and must start
very early. In fact, correction with the rod should start much
earlier than our contemporary godless and irresponsible society
believes is normative. The Scripture says, "Chasten thy son while
there is hope and let not thy soul spare for his crying" (Proverbs
19:1. In other words, there is a time when there is real hope that
a child can be corrected and have his will broken by the parent who
uses the rod of correction, and there is a time when that hope
diminishes by virtue of the child's advancing age.
In my position as the director of a rehabilitation ministry for
troubled teenage girls, I receive phone calls daily from desperate
parents all across the United States. They have children for whom
all hope seems to be gone because they did not start the use of the
rod of correction while there was hope as the Scriptures mandated. I
do not mean to discourage parents with older teenagers, who have
suddenly been exposed to God's inspired instructions in this matter.
As long as you have a child under your authority and your home where
you can directly supervise and correct him, there still is hope that
you may turn that child from his wicked ways and break his will. You
may still teach him to submit to authority in his life.
A good illustration of this hope is found in the case of a mother
who called me from a distant state about her troubled teenage
daughter. This teenager had gotten into such continual mischief and
wickedness that the desperate mother went to the local hardware
store and purchased a lock and chain with which to lock the girl to
her body. This unorthodox measure kept the girl in her home at night
but fell far short of Scriptural methodology in changing the heart!
I explained to the mother that we did not have room to receive the
girl at the time because our beds were filled. However, I mentioned
that I could give her a possible answer for her predicament. I also
said, "But I doubt that you will follow through." The mother,
hearing that there might be a solution to her crisis, desperately
implored, "Yes, I will take your counsel. What is your solution?" I
then proceeded to explain that the mother should get a stick that
would not break and get after that daughter until the daughter asked
for peace in their relationship. The mother hesitated in silence for
a time on that long distance telephone call, and then seemingly made
a firm commitment before me and the Lord that she would do so. She
answered, "Alright, I will!" I then forgot about the mother and her
call inasmuch as we receive several calls like this daily.
Three weeks later, I received a phone call from this same mother. I
had forgotten who she was and was reminded of her identity only when
she reminded me of the lock and chain she had purchased to secure
her daughter. I remembered who she was at that point since that was
a unique method of restraining the girl. I asked, "Well, what has
happened since our last conversation?" The mother replied that she
had taken my advice to secure a large stick that would not break,
and to quote the mother, "I wore off her behind!" I chuckled at the
mother's response and thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the story. She
went on to explain that she was simply amazed and dumbfounded at her
daughter's change of heart following the severe thrashing that the
mother gave her. It seems that the daughter, for the first time in
sixteen years, chose to obey her mother when she realized that the
mother was unflinchingly determined to break the girl's will and to
settle for nothing less than complete obedience. The mother then
said, "And it has lasted for three weeks! But I think she needs it
again this week." This dramatic illustration of how one mother
solved the problem of breaking the will of her daughter points up
how God's methods really can and do work. But a parent must be fully
purposed and determined in his heart that he will obey God no matter
what the consequences.
B. The promise involved if I carry out my duty
The second part of the first directive is the promise involved if I
carry out my duty. "For if thou beatest him with the rod he shall
not die." The condition of the promise is found in the phrase, "if
thou beatest him with the rod." Who meets this condition? Again, the
original Hebrew gives us the clue. Another masculine suffix is used
here indicating that the father is probably the one who shoulders
the responsibility of meeting this condition. The specific action
involved in meeting the condition is summed up by Solomon in the
word "beat." To use this word in connection with child correction
conjures up in the listening mind all manner of horrible child abuse
through stories vividly displayed by our mass media and by liberal
thinking do-gooders. They decry almost any form of child correction
beyond praise and persuasive speech or possibly withdrawal of
privilege. God however, who knows better than men, and has wisdom
that men can never approach, uses a word that is very strong.
The emotional freight connected with this word causes even many
fundamental preachers to withdraw from its use. But since God uses
the word and the translators of the Authorized Version have used a
perfectly good English word, we shall attempt to explain it in its
context free of the emotional freight so often connected with its
use.
The grammatical form of the word indicates that it takes effort to
carry out the conditions of this promise. The Hebrew word "to beat"
in this verse is a causal verb that emphasizes that a dad must bring
himself to do it. This hearkens back to what was said earlier about
having to force ourselves to do what does not come naturally in this
area of child correction. Not only must we cause ourselves to "beat
our child" but the usage of this particular word indicates that God
has designed corporal punishment so that it would cause pain. The
word "beat" that is used here is the very same word used in
Deuteronomy 25:2,3. In this Deuteronomy passage, it is very clear
that the word is used in connection with a physical beating where
pain is being inflicted by the beating as a means of punishment
ordered by a judge in Israel. By this Scriptural illustration we are
absolutely compelled to realize that this word is used in the sense
of physical pain being caused by corporal punishment, and, further,
that this is God's very objective!
If we return to our passage in Proverbs 23:13, 14, we see by the
context that God is also talking about the theme of physical
beating, not a beating with words, withdrawal of privilege, or
anything else short of physical chastisement. Some folks have a real
problem in thinking of the Lord planning to have a child experience
pain during an incident of correction. Those who would have a
problem in this area should quickly review Hebrews 12:6-11. There
the writer to the Hebrews develops the point that painful
chastisement at the hand of God is a very clear mark of being a
child of God. Moreover, verse eight indicates that anyone without
this chastisement, "whereof all are partakers," is in reality not a
son of God at all and therefore not an object of His filial love.
The world and humanistically-trained minds are repelled in horror at
the thought of a God who would deliberately order painful correction
of a child and use words as strong as "beat" in ordering parents to
carry out that correction. The Scriptures make it abundantly clear
that such painful correction is the most loving, wise, and
responsible procedure that a Godly parent can follow in developing
obedience and character in his child. Therefore, when you hear
someone object, "But that will hurt my child," you can
answer, "Precisely, that is God's goal, that the child be hurt with
the pain of the spanking during a session of correction."
What is the reason for the pain? It delivers, in some mysterious
way, the heart of that child from its rebellion, stubbornness, and
willfulness. Any regenerate person can see abundant testimony to how
this mysterious process works by looking at his or her own life's
experience in walking with his Saviour. God reproves His children
many times in very painful ways to deliver their hearts of the same
ungodly characteristics.
Ideally, a child should know the reason that he is being dealt with
in this way. In other words, he should know the sin or the rule he
has broken. He should especially know how he has offended God and
broken His moral law and then be called to repentance before God and
others who are affected by his sin. When this is done the session of
correction has its maximum benefit in the life of the
child. "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child, but the rod of
correction shall drive it far from him" (Proverbs 22:15).
Mysterious? Yes, but mysterious as it is, the promise is bound in
this Scripture that Godly and consistent application of the rod of
correction will deliver the foolish rebellion and stubborn
willfulness from the heart of a child when his parents have
disciplined themselves enough to carry it out.
Correction not a one-time affair
Another condition of the promise Solomon develops in this passage is
that correction must be consistent and repetitive. The verb
for "beat" that he uses in this verse is not a one-time action. The
verb calls for ongoing activity of beating. Therefore a parent may
not reasonably expect that one or two times of Biblically beating
the child is going to deliver that child once and for all of the
rebellious heart with which he was born. However in the same
breath, we must emphasize that Godly parents who insist on complete
obedience and back up their demands with immediate application of
the rod discover to their joy that the need for the rod diminishes
as the child recognizes the parents' determination to apply it when
necessary.
Many parents have said to me when being challenged about their lack
of consistency in application of the rod of correction, "I have
tried that; it doesn't work." Let us think about that response for a
moment. Can it really be true that a child correction procedure that
is ordered directly in the Scriptures for Godly parents will work in
some cases and not in others? The earnest believer would be repelled
in horror and say, "Of course not!" Then if the fault does not lie
in the Lord or His Word, where does the fault lie if a child is
manifesting the rebellion bound in his naturally depraved heart? I
believe the answer lies with the father primarily and with parents
collectively.
Whenever I have encountered such an excuse on the part of a parent,
I immediately begin to ask specific questions about their child
correction procedures. In each case I have examined, I have
discovered that the parent who claims that they have tried the rod
of correction God's way, in reality hasn't done so at all. Some have
given their child the rod of correction with such a lack of
determination and vigor that their blows could not be expected to
seriously dampen the enthusiastic rebellion of the child. Other
parents have tried the application of the rod at widely divergent
intervals of time and have been seriously negligent in the area of
consistency. Further questioning always has revealed that the
correction was not done with God's methods in mind at all. In fact,
when a child is disciplined in this inconsistent way, he seems to
become a worse child of the devil than he was before. In effect, as
he is given half-hearted strokes of the rod by a parent who is not
fully determined in his heart to break the child's will for the
glory of God, that child in his heart reasons, "I can take this. My
parent has not succeeded in breaking my will and I have won."
To carry out the spirit of this passage, a parent must immediately
carry out correction with the rod as soon as practical after the
offense has occurred. This is fully in keeping with Ecclesiastes
8:11--"Because sentence against an evil work is not executed
speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in
them to do evil." God clearly states that the further correction is
removed from the actual offense in terms of relative time, the less
effective that correction will be. What an instructive lesson for
our judicial system! How corrective can any method of punishment be
when it is weeks, months, and even years after the actual offense?
Therefore, a parent should apply the rod as quickly as is possible
following the breaking of a rule.
For this reason, a mother who is alone with her children during the
day is wise to use her delegated authority from her husband to
speedily execute the correction against the erring child rather than
wait the minutes or even the hours that it may take for dad to
arrive home. When one keeps in mind that the greater the time
difference between the offense and the correction the less effect
will be gained from the correction, it is obviously wise to follow
God's method and apply the correction immediately after the offense.
Many parents in using the rod of correction on their child do so
with an obvious lack of vigor and often stop short of the child's
will being completely broken. Manifestation of this error is
illustrated in countless homes as a child gets up from his session
of correction still spouting rebellious words and giving willful
looks at his discouraged parent. The parent has no one to blame but
himself for this problem since he did not completely break the will
of the child during the session of correction. A child who is still
willing to resist the authority of his parent after having received
the rod of correction is still in need of more of that same rod.
Both my wife and I have often remarked that it is good that one of
our children was not our firstborn. This particular child who came
along later in our family was extremely willful and rebellious
toward our authority and would often require sessions of correction
lasting from one to two hours in length before the will would
finally be broken! Had this child been our first, we may well have
been tempted to despair of the grace of God.
Do not be discouraged, dear parent, when it appears that your Godly
efforts to chastise your child with the rod of correction meet with
total resistance towards your authority. This simply means that you
have started on the right course and you must now pursue your
objective of a broken will with great vigor until your mission is
finally accomplished. This may require a great deal of self-
discipline on your part but you can do it, since God requires you to
do so.
God's tool for correction
What is the tool of the condition in this passage? Solomon explains
that it is "the rod." I have spent a great deal of time researching
just exactly what a "rod" is and the Scriptural usage thereof and
have determined that a "rod" is simply a rod! It is variously
defined as a rod, a staff, a scepter, or a wand. In short, a rod is
an instrument strong enough to be used in a session of correction so
that it will not be broken. It also lends itself to inflicting pain
on the posterior of the child, but it is not so constructed as to
break bones or tear flesh! In other words, the rod is not a pencil,
or a ruler, or a pillow. It is far more severe than any of these
objects. Nor is the rod a rubber hose or a length of barbed wire! A
rod in most cases is probably a wooden paddle used for spanking the
buttock. In my own family, we use a large hardwood paddle for this
purpose. If you were to ask any of my children, "Where is the rod of
correction in your house?" They would immediately know of what you
are speaking and each child who is old enough to do so would be able
to take you down to the master bedroom where the "family rod" is
kept in a corner.
Since the Lord emphasizes the use of this inanimate object
called "the rod" it is not wise for a parent to ordinarily use any
other tool for correction.
Although a hand may have to be used in an emergency session of
correction, this is not what the Lord had in mind. Your hand cannot
do an effective job of correcting since you will inflict about as
much pain on your hand as you will on the child's buttock. Your hand
should represent love and affection, not correction. The Lord
prefers this inanimate object called the rod.
If a parent obeys ... then what?
The promise specified to an obedient parent is "he shall not die." A
casual reader of this passage may be tempted to think Solomon is
speaking about the rod of correction in a session of discipline and
this session of discipline will cause sufficient crying on the part
of the child that it may sound as if he is going to die but he
really will not. Although many believe this to be true, this is a
false and erroneous interpretation of this passage. If this were
true and Solomon is making a reference to physical death in this
phrase, "He shall not die," then a parent could keep his child alive
forever by giving him a daily beating! That is ludicrous you may
say, and I agree. This passage is not a reference to physical death
but is a very clear reference to spiritual life and death.
II. THE SECOND DIRECTIVE: THE PROCEDURE AND PRODUCT OF CORRECTION
A. The procedure of correction
The second directive found in this passage is also in two parts.
They are: the procedure and the product of correction. The first
part or the procedure of correction is highlighted by "Thou shalt
beat him with the rod." The one who does the beating, in other
words, is the one who saves this child in a spiritual sense! Here is
a very mysterious promise to a parent in the Scriptures, that
consistent, Godly, disciplined correction of the child with the rod
of correction will in some mysterious sense be instrumental in that
child's spiritual salvation from sin and death.
To ignore this very clear reference to the child's salvation being
related to his being disciplined is to ignore the very clear
teaching of this passage of the Word of God. A parent must recognize
and see clearly that Biblically beating his child sensitizes that
child not only to the fact of sin but also to its ugliness. In
addition, the child will see that the penalty must always be paid
when we sin. The beating spoken of in this passage is done often and
consistently so that the child recognizes he will always pay a price
that he does not want to pay for rebellion against his authority.
Such a child who is Biblically trained and corrected will be far
more likely to respond to the spiritual concepts of sin and
salvation when he reaches the age of understanding. A vital
principle for a parent to grasp in this business of child correction
is that our children will leave our house to obey their heavenly
Father in exactly the same way as they have obeyed their earthly
father.
If a child has been accustomed to disobeying his earthly father and
was rarely corrected or corrected inconsistently at best, that child
will not likely be trained to expect the hand of God to be active in
his life in chastening and drawing him to repentance for his
personal sin. Therefore, he will not be a very likely candidate for
responding to the spiritual concepts of sin and salvation.
Obviously, by the grace of God, there are exceptions to this general
rule. By the mercy of God, the Lord has often reached down and saved
a rebellious youngster who has left the home of parents who never
corrected him in a Godly fashion. It must be remembered that he was
saved by an all-wise, merciful, and loving heavenly Father who
regenerated his heart even though his earthly parents were
unfaithful in the area of correction.
To put it another way, the one who does not Biblically beat his
child, in a loving and consistent way, in a very real sense
predisposes that child for hell and even has a direct part in
sending him there! This truth is precisely why the Lord says
you "hate your child" if you do not chasten him betimes (Proverbs
13:24). Interestingly, the world believes a parents hates his child
if he does use the rod on him!
When your child does wrong and in rebellion breaks rules that you
have very clearly laid out, you should not nag him and incessantly
scold him or put on your mad voice and use any threatening words.
Rather, you should use a rod that has already been designated for
that purpose and in Biblical love consistently beat him that his
will might be broken and that repentance toward you and toward God
be achieved.
Again, these concepts cause horrible thoughts and evoke dramatic
reaction in those not accustomed to principles of God. Such folks
may say at the top of their lungs, "That is child abuse"! My
response to their cries of horror is that their methods of
correction in never using the rod and never trying to bring a child
to repentance for his personal sin is a horrible, hateful, and
unloving method of correction. They are the ones who really are the
child abusers, the parents who neglect and leave their child to his
own devices. These are the parents who allow their children to
express their natural depravity and become increasingly wicked and
more sophisticated in their rebellion toward their authority and
toward God in their advancing age.
No, God's method is best, no matter what the wisdom of this world
presents as an alternative. For a child to be confronted with his
sinnand to be Biblically corrected and to be led to repentance and
gaining of forgiveness for his sin is far better than all the talk,
discussion, and any other substitute for Godly correction that men
can theorize. In my view, any method of child correction that is
presented as a substitute for God's method is child abuse.
But these opponents of God's methods may object, "What you are
suggesting will hurt the child and may even bruise him!" My response
would be, "That is correct." A child may in fact be bruised by a
session of difficult correction. In fact, the Lord has already
anticipated this objection and has discussed it briefly in the
Scriptures. "The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do
stripes the inward parts of the belly" (Proverbs 20:30). One may
say, "That is talking about a child who has bruised himself in an
accident at play."
No, the latter part of the verse explains that God is giving this
passage in the context of physical chastening for correction. God
makes the point that if a child is bruised during one of these
sessions of correction that a parent should not despair but realize
that the blueness of that wound cleanses away the evil heart of
rebellion and willful stubbornness that reside in that depraved
little body. I must hasten to add that no parent should deliberately
seek to bruise his child nor should that be the goal of Biblical
correction. I simply must agree with the Lord and declare that if a
bruise does occur, God knows about it and will use it to cleanse the
guilty heart of that erring child.
Bitter medicine
But the humanist or disobedient parent who does not want to use
God's method may still object and say, "I just cannot bring myself
to do such a horrible thing to my child." Let me ask this question.
If your child was dying of a deadly disease and a very bitter,
extremely distasteful medicine was discovered that could cure your
child of the deadly disease, would you not give him that medicine?
In fact, would you not get help to hold the child to even force the
medicine down his throat in order that he might be saved? Most
thinking menwould most readily admit that they would indeed do so
even though the medicine was horribly bitter and distasteful to the
child. So it is in this matter of God's method of child correction.
It is very distasteful and painful for the child involved and since
this is true it has become bitter and distasteful to disobedient
parents as well, but it is absolutely vital for that child's
character training and ultimate spiritual salvation.
When to begin?
When should a parent start using the rod of correction on a child
that the Lord has brought into the family? There is no clear and
specific answer to this very good question. However, it is my
opinion that the correction of children should start as soon as the
need for that correction is made manifest. Every discerning parent
who has been blessed with a little child in his home realizes that
his initial impression of the sweetness and the innocence of the
child is in reality an illusion. A child very quickly demonstrates
his fallen, depraved nature and reveals himself to be a selfish
little beast in manifold ways. As soon as the child begins to
express his own self-will (and this occurs early in life) that child
needs to receive correction. My wife and I have a general goal of
making sure that each of our children has his will broken by the
time he reaches the age of one year. To do this, a child must
receive correction when he is a small infant. Every parent
recognizes that this self-will begins early as he has witnessed his
child stiffen his back and boldly demonstrate his rebellion and self-
will even though he has been fed, diapered, and cared for in every
other physical way.
On what occasions should a child be corrected? Whenever a child
directly disobeys authority or shows disrespect and rebellion toward
authority, that child should receive correction. Lesser infractions
of course would receive lesser forms of correction with the rod
being reserved for the more serious infractions.
B. The product of correction
Solomon last turns to the product of Godly correction: "shalt
deliver his soul from hell." The disciplined consistent habit of
Godly correction with the rod figuratively snatches that child's
soul from a real hell. The word for hell in this passage is the
word "sheol." Because of the context, we must recognize that Solomon
is not only talking about sheol in terms of being the realm of the
dead but rather is talking about the lower regions of sheol wherein
reside the souls of the wicked dead who have died in their sins and
in an unbelieving state. Solomon, in other words, makes a direct tie
between Godly correction with the rod and spiritual salvation of the
soul of the child.
This connection is made in a very startling illustration from the
Old Testament Scriptures.
In 1 Samuel 1:12 we are introduced to an Old Testament believer who
was in God's work. This man's name was Eli, who was a priest of the
living God.
As if to reveal Samuel and Eli in startling contrast to one another,
the Spirit of God introduces us to the family of Eli following the
wonderful account of Hannah conceiving the child Samuel after being
infertile. Hannah must have used the rod of correction on little
Samuel since he is later demonstrated in the Scripture as being a
totally different kind of child than were the children of Eli. We
are told that "the sons of Eli were sons of Belial; they knew not
the Lord" (1 Samuel 2:12). These two boys, Hophni and Phineas, were
unsaved, unregenerate young men who despite the wickedness of their
hearts and their unregenerate natures were made to be priests of the
Lord. This unhappy and horrible testimony was an abomination to God.
He goes on to say in 1 Samuel 3:13, "For I have told him that I will
judge his house forever for the iniquity which he knoweth; because
his sons made themselves vile and he restrained them not." In short,
Eli was judged forever by the Lord because he did not restrain the
boys from their wickedness and evil-doing even though he knew they
were doing wrong and violating God's law.
Eli would be in close company with many men today, for even though
they know their boys or their girls are doing wrong, they refuse to
obey God in their own lives. They will not institutes the Godly,
disciplined, consistent use of the rod of correction to turn the
children around.
Why did not Eli follow through with what he knew he should to
restrain his boys? The answer is found in 1 Samuel 2:29, "Wherefore
kick ye at my sacrifice or at mine offering, which I have commanded
in my habitation; and honorest thy sons above me to make yourselves
fat with the chiefest of all the offerings of Israel my people." Eli
did not want to lose the riches, honor, and prestige of the
priesthood in order to vindicate God's honor. He was well satisfied
with the tremendous wealth and benefits of the priest's office and
he did not want to "rock the boat." He lived a very selfish and self-
centered life rather than obey the Lord. Because he did not want to
jeopardize his or his sons' positions in the priesthood, he refused
to do what he knew he should in restraining their vile, sinful habit
patterns. Again, Eli was like many men on the contemporary scene
who; because they do not want to "upset the apple cart of their
lives," refuse to restrain their children in order to please God.
The stakes are high
Every father and mother must recognize this all-important fact, that
the very soul of their child is at stake in this matter of Godly
correction with the rod. The immortal, undying portion of that child
is in very real jeopardy if his will is not broken and he is not
trained to respond to God's authority in his life.
A parent must not just correct for present results. If this were
true we could understand more clearly why so many parents allow
their children to get by uncorrected at present only to reap sad
results later on. NO, a parent must correct his children not only
for present results but for results twenty years from now and for an
eternity!
I am often reminded of a conversation I had with a neighbor of mine
who related a very personal incident from his life with regard to
the correction of his children. He mentioned to me on one occasion
that he thought that he was much too hard on his son and was even
accused of being too harsh with the boy by other friends and
associates. However, when the boy became an adult man he became
active in the Lord's work and even chose a full-time position in
Christian service. On one occasion the young man returned to his
father and with tears streaming down his cheeks related to his
father how thankful he was that his dad cared enough for him and his
spiritual welfare that he absolutely insisted that the child do
right. He was also thankful that he backed it up with the consistent
and Godly use of the rod of correction even though it was extremely
unpleasant and distasteful at the time to his flesh. Your children
will also come back and thank you twenty years from now for making
them do right if you in fact do so at this moment in their lives.
Any parent who allows the correction of his children to be regulated
on the basis of that parent's feelings and emotions will find that
he only disciplines his children on a infrequent basis. This type of
correction will be administered only when a parent is extremely
irritated or is upset by something rather obvious in the child's
rebellion. Parents cannot afford to base their correction on
feelings or on avoiding unpleasantness but must purpose in their
hearts to use Godly, consistent, loving correction with the rod even
though they don't feel like it!
What do I do now?
If you are like many parents, you have not been correcting your
children God's way. If after you have read this material and you
have allowed the Spirit of God to speak to your heart about your
sinful failure with regard to your child's welfare in this area, you
must not simply throw yourself into a new program of child
correction. You must first ask God to forgive you for your sin and
your failure. Next, ask your child to forgive you for failing him as
a parent in not requiring that he be made to do right in all
situations. Only after these very important steps are taken may you
start with Godly correction and expect your child to respond to you
in a positive way.
You must be prepared however, for a very startling reaction to your
Godly attempts to do right by your children in this area of
correction. If you purpose in your heart to be consistent in this
matter, you will soon discover as countless other Godly parents have
discovered that you must endure persecution, misunderstanding, and
negative reaction from others around you. Some of your friends,
perhaps your parents, neighbors, and even other Christians will not
agree that you should carry through with this Godly discipline. Be
prepared for this reaction, for unless you are in very unusual
circumstances, it is most likely to occur.
Parents must use wisdom
Christian parents must be very wise today in how they carry out
Godly correction. I would encourage you to be vigorous and
consistent in the application of these procedures in the privacy of
your home. I cannot completely tell you the grief I have shared with
so many parents who have telephoned me and asked me in tears to
somehow help their daughter. They have asked to get their daughter
back from the welfare authorities or other bureaucrats. You see,
many parents who have educated their child with the rod of
correction in order to make them do right have found out in shocked
disbelief that even the authorities of our local and state
governments are against the implementation of this Godly method of
training a child. Countless parents could give you vivid testimony
of how various authorities have come to their door and have taken
away their children because the parents were observed correcting
their child with the rod of correction as God ordered them to do.
You must correct your child in the privacy of your home so that the
fruit of your training will be so indelibly fixed on the child's
heart that you will not have to use the rod of correction in a
public setting and expose your family to this very real risk in
today's permissive lawless society.
Another aspect of this is that if you carry through with Godly
correction in the privacy of your home your child will not embarrass
you in public. Many are the parents who are embarrassed in a church
service or in a public setting by their child's unruly behavior
simply because they have not enforced rules of obedience on that
child in the home.
Grandparents should also recognize one possible complication in
their lives with regard to this issue of child correction. The
Scripture states that the crown of older men are children's children
(Proverbs 17:6). That being the case, a grandparent is tempted not
to follow through with the rod of correction being used for his
grandchild. However a Godly grandparent will recognize the necessity
of doing so as well as the Godly reason for doing so. The minority
is right.
We must recognize that those people who disagree with what God
commands parents to do in this passage are in a definite majority in
our society. Perhaps as you read this material, you yourself
disagree with what has been expressed. If you do disagree, you may
be comforted to know that you are definitely in the majority of
opinion. However, you are also very wrong.
Ten spies and all of Israel disagreed with the minority report
given by Joshua and Caleb. But God vindicated Joshua and Caleb and
punished the majority who chose to disobey (Numbers 13-14).
Even though you may think these methods of correction that God has
ordered parents to carry out are bestial, abusive, and unloving, you
are the one who is bestial, abusive, and unloving if you don't obey
God in this matter. Moreover, if you do not obey God your child
likely will not be saved unless the Lord supernaturally in His mercy
does so despite your disobedience.
Today there is at least one European country that has already
outlawed what God has clearly commanded in this area of child
training. Sweden has made it illegal for a parent to use the rod of
correction on his child. If Sweden does carry through and enforce
this ungodly and morally unlawful legislation, I can guarantee that
the next generation in that land will likely be a nation of
perverts. This will be true because of the selfish, rebellious, self-
centered, irresponsible young people such sinful and wicked
legislation will promote.
No matter what men or governments do or do not do with regard to
this issue of child correction, God's people by God's grace must
follow through and do it simply because God commands it and they
must obey to please Him.
-
Ok, this is the just awful, somebody please shut this place down!
In my position as the director of a rehabilitation ministry for
troubled teenage girls, I receive phone calls daily from desperate
parents all across the United States. They have children for whom
all hope seems to be gone because they did not start the use of the
rod of correction while there was hope as the Scriptures mandated. I
do not mean to discourage parents with older teenagers, who have
suddenly been exposed to God's inspired instructions in this matter.
As long as you have a child under your authority and your home where
you can directly supervise and correct him, there still is hope that
you may turn that child from his wicked ways and break his will. You
may still teach him to submit to authority in his life.
A good illustration of this hope is found in the case of a mother
who called me from a distant state about her troubled teenage
daughter. This teenager had gotten into such continual mischief and
wickedness that the desperate mother went to the local hardware
store and purchased a lock and chain with which to lock the girl to
her body. This unorthodox measure kept the girl in her home at night
but fell far short of Scriptural methodology in changing the heart!
I explained to the mother that we did not have room to receive the
girl at the time because our beds were filled. However, I mentioned
that I could give her a possible answer for her predicament. I also
said, "But I doubt that you will follow through." The mother,
hearing that there might be a solution to her crisis, desperately
implored, "Yes, I will take your counsel. What is your solution?" I
then proceeded to explain that the mother should get a stick that
would not break and get after that daughter until the daughter asked
for peace in their relationship. The mother hesitated in silence for
a time on that long distance telephone call, and then seemingly made
a firm commitment before me and the Lord that she would do so. She
answered, "Alright, I will!" I then forgot about the mother and her
call inasmuch as we receive several calls like this daily.
Three weeks later, I received a phone call from this same mother. I
had forgotten who she was and was reminded of her identity only when
she reminded me of the lock and chain she had purchased to secure
her daughter. I remembered who she was at that point since that was
a unique method of restraining the girl. I asked, "Well, what has
happened since our last conversation?" The mother replied that she
had taken my advice to secure a large stick that would not break,
and to quote the mother, "I wore off her behind!" I chuckled at the
mother's response and thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the story. She
went on to explain that she was simply amazed and dumbfounded at her
daughter's change of heart following the severe thrashing that the
mother gave her. It seems that the daughter, for the first time in
sixteen years, chose to obey her mother when she realized that the
mother was unflinchingly determined to break the girl's will and to
settle for nothing less than complete obedience. The mother then
said, "And it has lasted for three weeks! But I think she needs it
again this week." This dramatic illustration of how one mother
solved the problem of breaking the will of her daughter points up
how God's methods really can and do work. But a parent must be fully
purposed and determined in his heart that he will obey God no matter
what the consequences.
-
Tell me that is a troll you just posted and not something off of their website.....
-
Not a troll, this guy is for real
Here's the link
http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/correc ... ldren.html (http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/correctionchildren.html)
The sermon was posted on Rick Ross cult education forum
forumhttp://forum.rickross.com/viewtopi ... 3a4d9dbac5 (http://forumhttp://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?p=19825&sid=22c6f81f41cf1a548596cf3a4d9dbac5),
or you can buy the sermon online
Here is the URL to Hephzibah House:
http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/ (http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/)
(If you click on Audio-Visual store link on this site you can buy more of his tracts on VHS format for $10 a pop, to watch on your TV (despite the fact that Williams himself condemns TV ownership as a grave sin)
-
Fucking hell....
I actually prayed this was some sort of sick joke.
-
If there is anybody in Indiana reading this - please copy this with the relevant links to Indiana Child Protective Services.
I filed a request that they investigate this place when all this first came to light. Despite providing contact information I have heard nothing in response. I fear this may be b/c I am not a resident of IN.
Someone else please follow up with this. Maybe if they hear from more than one - no matter where they are from - they will take it seriously.
-
Buzzkill did you talk to Aunt Kelly Ryan, or was that an Izzy scam on fornits?
-
We spoke briefly; it was not Izzy; it was no scam.
Besides which - even if she were a poser - this place is real - and it is a horror - That is the relevant point.
-
yeah good point Buzz.
-
We spoke briefly; it was not Izzy; it was no scam.
Besides which - even if she were a poser - this place is real - and it is a horror - That is the relevant point.
Have you ever spoken to Izzy? Just curious if you have and if so, were you able to get a word in edgewise?
:rofl:
-
We spoke briefly; it was not Izzy; it was no scam.
Besides which - even if she were a poser - this place is real - and it is a horror - That is the relevant point.
Have you ever spoken to Izzy? Just curious if you have and if so, were you able to get a word in edgewise?
:rofl:
Oh god.. the bitch never shuts up!
-
Why did thanks:-) delete all of her posts?
-
Not a troll, this guy is for real
Here's the link
http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/correc ... ldren.html (http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/correctionchildren.html)
The sermon was posted on Rick Ross cult education forum
http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php ... 3a4d9dbac5 (http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?p=19825&sid=22c6f81f41cf1a548596cf3a4d9dbac5),
or you can buy the sermon online
Here is the URL to Hephzibah House:
http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/ (http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/)
(If you click on Audio-Visual store link on this site you can buy more of his tracts on VHS format for $10 a pop, to watch on your TV (despite the fact that Williams himself condemns TV ownership as a grave sin)
The first link It's been removed....
-
Yeah, and removed but GOOD. This is bizarre - why bring it here, then flit away after deleting the posts? Whatever, it's some nasty business.
-
Yes, he took it down - but Rick Ross' forum has it up in its entirety:
RickRoss Forum topic/ Hephzibah House
http://http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?p=19825&sid=22c6f81f41cf1a548596cf3a4d9dbac5
-
I don't think I've ever seen something so disturbing. Those people are goners, over the moon, off the charts nutters. At least they're crazy enough that it's obvious they're crazy. Most of these places fly under the radar and go to great lengths to appear normal or discount any stories of abuse. These fuckers state right out that they're going to beat your kid into submission. :flame:
"When should a parent start using the rod of correction on a child that the Lord has brought into the family? There is no clear and specific answer to this very good question. However, it is my opinion that the correction of children should start as soon as the need for that correction is made manifest. Every discerning parent who has been blessed with a little child in his home realizes that his initial impression of the sweetness and the innocence of the child is in reality an illusion. A child very quickly demonstrates his fallen, depraved nature and reveals himself to be a selfish little beast in manifold ways. As soon as the child begins to express his own self-will (and this occurs early in life) that child needs to receive correction. My wife and I have a general goal of making sure that each of our children has his will broken by the time he reaches the age of one year. ***** To do this, a child must receive correction when he is a small infant.*****Every parent recognizes that this self-will begins early as he has witnessed his child stiffen his back and boldly demonstrate his rebellion and self-will even though he has been fed, diapered, and cared for in every other physical way."
-
More in your face than Magnolia for sure.
-
At first i thought this was a humourous parody like that of landover baptist. These people dont sound as much like a religion as a cult to me.
-
My niece has just been sent to this school by my insane sister-in-law (I agree, it is a cult.) I can't even send her letters- any that are "controversal" are thrown are (they're all pre-read.)
I've been trying to find out more about this school. The more I do, the worse it looks.
-
...another one...
The question is "How much hardball do you want to play"?
Step 1 is bringing your sister-in-law HERE, to Fornits, and letting her know what real people think of this hellhole.
Step 2 is calling up that hellhole and saying "Hi, I hear you child torturing fucks have my niece? You might want to get her out of there, now."
Step 3 is giving your sister-in-law's contact information to Buzzkill and Psy.
Step 4 is.. nah, I'll let you figure out what Step 4 is.
If there's a Step 5, you didn't do Step 4 properly.
-
http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/ (http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/)
The child beating sermon:
http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/correc ... ldren.html (http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/correctionchildren.html)
It has been removed; but if you go to: http://www.archive.org/web/web.php (http://www.archive.org/web/web.php)
and paste: http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/correc ... ldren.html (http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/correctionchildren.html) into the search bar; it will bring up the original web page with the full text of this sermon. Or, if you want, I can send it to you in an email attachment.
The sermon was also posted in full, on the Rick Ross cult education forum:
http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php ... 3a4d9dbac5 (http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?p=19825&sid=22c6f81f41cf1a548596cf3a4d9dbac5)
[a Quote]
In my position as the director of a rehabilitation ministry for
troubled teenage girls, I receive phone calls daily from desperate
parents all across the United States. They have children for whom
all hope seems to be gone because they did not start the use of the
rod of correction while there was hope as the Scriptures mandated. I
do not mean to discourage parents with older teenagers, who have
suddenly been exposed to God's inspired instructions in this matter.
As long as you have a child under your authority and your home where
you can directly supervise and correct him, there still is hope that
you may turn that child from his wicked ways and break his will. You
may still teach him to submit to authority in his life.
A good illustration of this hope is found in the case of a mother
who called me from a distant state about her troubled teenage
daughter. This teenager had gotten into such continual mischief and
wickedness that the desperate mother went to the local hardware
store and purchased a lock and chain with which to lock the girl to
her body. This unorthodox measure kept the girl in her home at night
but fell far short of Scriptural methodology in changing the heart!
I explained to the mother that we did not have room to receive the
girl at the time because our beds were filled. However, I mentioned
that I could give her a possible answer for her predicament. I also
said, "But I doubt that you will follow through." The mother,
hearing that there might be a solution to her crisis, desperately
implored, "Yes, I will take your counsel. What is your solution?" I
then proceeded to explain that the mother should get a stick that
would not break and get after that daughter until the daughter asked
for peace in their relationship. The mother hesitated in silence for
a time on that long distance telephone call, and then seemingly made
a firm commitment before me and the Lord that she would do so. She
answered, "Alright, I will!" I then forgot about the mother and her
call inasmuch as we receive several calls like this daily.
Three weeks later, I received a phone call from this same mother. I
had forgotten who she was and was reminded of her identity only when
she reminded me of the lock and chain she had purchased to secure
her daughter. I remembered who she was at that point since that was
a unique method of restraining the girl. I asked, "Well, what has
happened since our last conversation?" The mother replied that she
had taken my advice to secure a large stick that would not break,
and to quote the mother, "I wore off her behind!" I chuckled at the
mother's response and thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the story. She
went on to explain that she was simply amazed and dumbfounded at her
daughter's change of heart following the severe thrashing that the
mother gave her. It seems that the daughter, for the first time in
sixteen years, chose to obey her mother when she realized that the
mother was unflinchingly determined to break the girl's will and to
settle for nothing less than complete obedience. The mother then
said, "And it has lasted for three weeks! But I think she needs it
again this week." This dramatic illustration of how one mother
solved the problem of breaking the will of her daughter points up
how God's methods really can and do work. But a parent must be fully
purposed and determined in his heart that he will obey God no matter
what the consequences.
Here's another little snippet from the good pastor of Hephzibah House.
When to begin?
When should a parent start using the rod of correction on a child that the
Lord has brought into the family? There is no clear and specific answer to
this very good question. However, it is my opinion that the correction of
children should start as soon as the need for that correction is made
manifest. Every discerning parent who has been blessed with a little child
in his home realizes that his initial impression of the sweetness and the
innocence of the child is in reality an illusion. A child very quickly
demonstrates his fallen, depraved nature and reveals himself to be a selfish
little beast in manifold ways. As soon as the child begins to express his
own self-will (and this occurs early in life) that child needs to receive
correction. My wife and I have a general goal of making sure that each of
our children has his will broken by the time he reaches the age of one year.
To do this, a child must receive correction when he is a small infant. Every
parent recognizes that this self-will begins early as he has witnessed his
child stiffen his back and boldly demonstrate his rebellion and self- will
even though he has been fed, diapered, and cared for in every other physical
way.
[end quote]
If you read the entire text, you will see that earlier in the sermon, he has
explained how this must be a real beating with a real rod; and that it must
hurt; and that he has had "disciplinary sessions" go on for hours with his
most rebellious child.
And note above - he is advocating beating an infant - younger than one
year - with a rod - so that it breaks the "little beast's" will.
Can you imagine what he does to the little "Harlots" he is in charge of in
his "troubled girl" facility? If he will do this to his own little
children - even an infant - what would he do to some strange girl of 14 or
15 who was sent to him for "correction"?
-
http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/ (http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/)
The child beating sermon:
http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/correc ... ldren.html (http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/correctionchildren.html)
It has been removed; but if you go to: http://www.archive.org/web/web.php (http://www.archive.org/web/web.php)
and paste: http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/correc ... ldren.html (http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/correctionchildren.html) into the search bar; it will bring up the original web page with the full text of this sermon. Or, if you want, I can send it to you in an email attachment.
The sermon was also posted in full, on the Rick Ross cult education forum:
http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php ... 3a4d9dbac5 (http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?p=19825&sid=22c6f81f41cf1a548596cf3a4d9dbac5)
[a Quote]
In my position as the director of a rehabilitation ministry for
troubled teenage girls, I receive phone calls daily from desperate
parents all across the United States. They have children for whom
all hope seems to be gone because they did not start the use of the
rod of correction while there was hope as the Scriptures mandated. I
do not mean to discourage parents with older teenagers, who have
suddenly been exposed to God's inspired instructions in this matter.
As long as you have a child under your authority and your home where
you can directly supervise and correct him, there still is hope that
you may turn that child from his wicked ways and break his will. You
may still teach him to submit to authority in his life.
A good illustration of this hope is found in the case of a mother
who called me from a distant state about her troubled teenage
daughter. This teenager had gotten into such continual mischief and
wickedness that the desperate mother went to the local hardware
store and purchased a lock and chain with which to lock the girl to
her body. This unorthodox measure kept the girl in her home at night
but fell far short of Scriptural methodology in changing the heart!
I explained to the mother that we did not have room to receive the
girl at the time because our beds were filled. However, I mentioned
that I could give her a possible answer for her predicament. I also
said, "But I doubt that you will follow through." The mother,
hearing that there might be a solution to her crisis, desperately
implored, "Yes, I will take your counsel. What is your solution?" I
then proceeded to explain that the mother should get a stick that
would not break and get after that daughter until the daughter asked
for peace in their relationship. The mother hesitated in silence for
a time on that long distance telephone call, and then seemingly made
a firm commitment before me and the Lord that she would do so. She
answered, "Alright, I will!" I then forgot about the mother and her
call inasmuch as we receive several calls like this daily.
Three weeks later, I received a phone call from this same mother. I
had forgotten who she was and was reminded of her identity only when
she reminded me of the lock and chain she had purchased to secure
her daughter. I remembered who she was at that point since that was
a unique method of restraining the girl. I asked, "Well, what has
happened since our last conversation?" The mother replied that she
had taken my advice to secure a large stick that would not break,
and to quote the mother, "I wore off her behind!" I chuckled at the
mother's response and thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the story. She
went on to explain that she was simply amazed and dumbfounded at her
daughter's change of heart following the severe thrashing that the
mother gave her. It seems that the daughter, for the first time in
sixteen years, chose to obey her mother when she realized that the
mother was unflinchingly determined to break the girl's will and to
settle for nothing less than complete obedience. The mother then
said, "And it has lasted for three weeks! But I think she needs it
again this week." This dramatic illustration of how one mother
solved the problem of breaking the will of her daughter points up
how God's methods really can and do work. But a parent must be fully
purposed and determined in his heart that he will obey God no matter
what the consequences.
Here's another little snippet from the good pastor of Hephzibah House.
When to begin?
When should a parent start using the rod of correction on a child that the
Lord has brought into the family? There is no clear and specific answer to
this very good question. However, it is my opinion that the correction of
children should start as soon as the need for that correction is made
manifest. Every discerning parent who has been blessed with a little child
in his home realizes that his initial impression of the sweetness and the
innocence of the child is in reality an illusion. A child very quickly
demonstrates his fallen, depraved nature and reveals himself to be a selfish
little beast in manifold ways. As soon as the child begins to express his
own self-will (and this occurs early in life) that child needs to receive
correction. My wife and I have a general goal of making sure that each of
our children has his will broken by the time he reaches the age of one year.
To do this, a child must receive correction when he is a small infant. Every
parent recognizes that this self-will begins early as he has witnessed his
child stiffen his back and boldly demonstrate his rebellion and self- will
even though he has been fed, diapered, and cared for in every other physical
way.
[end quote]
If you read the entire text, you will see that earlier in the sermon, he has
explained how this must be a real beating with a real rod; and that it must
hurt; and that he has had "disciplinary sessions" go on for hours with his
most rebellious child.
And note above - he is advocating beating an infant - younger than one
year - with a rod - so that it breaks the "little beast's" will.
Can you imagine what he does to the little "Harlots" he is in charge of in
his "troubled girl" facility? If he will do this to his own little
children - even an infant - what would he do to some strange girl of 14 or
15 who was sent to him for "correction"?
Also - consider calling the newspapers in the area and explaining to them what is going on. Consider calling the governor's office as well - and demand they investigate this obvious and very clear case of child battering.
-
He's a sadist and has obviously sexualized this.
What I wonder is why people seem to think humiliation, painful torture, and degradation is acceptable for children but not adults who fuck up.
If only daddy had to get over someone's knee when he was violent, or verbally abusive, or got drunk :rofl:
Castle has something funny to say in 3...2...
-
I agree Niles. The man is a sadist operating a dangerous cult. He is as guilty (or more so) of child abuse than Warren Jeffs. I find myself wondering how many undisclosed little graves are scattered through out the woods and fields of his "separated" Baptist congregation and home for girls.
His teachings on "the rod of correction", taken to their ultimate conclusion, lead to Andrea Yeats types of thinking: "I had to kill their bodies to save their souls"
I hope very much the authorities in IN can be made to see how dangerous this is. We all need to do what we can to make sure they can not get away with saying : We didn't know.
-
If only daddy had to get over someone's knee when he was violent, or verbally abusive, or got drunk :rofl:
I suggested this to my ex-wife, but it didn't fly.
-
I'm still waiting on an explanation why its ok to torture and humiliate children but not adults :roll:
-
I don't know.
-
Read it and weep - another child killed by a mother who turned to a religious zealot for tips on how to discipline her adopted child.
Anybody ever read the Pearl's book on how to raise up a child? It reads like a child abuse manual according to the report here:
http://teenadvocatesusa.org/SeanPaddock.html (http://teenadvocatesusa.org/SeanPaddock.html)
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
-
The Pearls' first book, "To Train Up a Child," has sold more than 400,000 copies since it was published in 1994
There are times when genocide is the only solution.
This is one of them.
Future books of this nature should be sold with white phosphorous between the covers.
-
here is an excerpt it is seriuosly dangerous stuff
The mother clumsily holds her cereal bowl at arms length as she wrestles her infant for supremacy. When she places the bowl out of the baby's reach, he is taught it is off limits only if it is out of reach. To train him, place the bowl within easy reach. When he reaches out, say "No" and thump his hand. He will pull his hand back, momentarily look alarmed and again reach out. Repeat the process of saying "No" in a calm voice and thumping the hand. After several times, you can eat in peace.
When "No" and a thump occur simultaneously, several times, on different occasions, the voice command alone soon becomes sufficient to mold behavior. Again, keep in mind, the baby is not being punished, just conditioned. The thump is not a substitute rod. It is reinforcement to the obedience training.
These sick bastards also advocate that when a baby bites a nursing mother she pull it's hair!
-
Same thing works pretty well with a dog. Every time it shits on the floor you swat it with a newspaper.
-
Same thing works pretty well with a dog. Every time it shits on the floor you swat it with a newspaper.
Actually - if you swat a dog for shitting in the floor - it learns to hide it's shit. This makes house training harder.
Most dogs learn well if they are taken out at regular consistent intervals - and encouraged to take care of business - and then told how wonderful they are and provided with treats when they do so. A few clever dogs learn to ask to go out, and then pretend to pee or poop for their treat - so watch to make sure they are actually doing the deed.
Scolding when they have been bad can be part of the process - but with a lot of dogs - swatting them after the fact does more to slow it down than speed it up. If you catch them in the act - a firm deep voiced: NO - BAD Dog! is really all it takes. Then get their ass outside, and be sure not to pet or interact with them, except to give what ever que word you use to encourage good potty manners.
Theres more concerning crate training, and clean up, that can make a world of difference - but there you have the basics.
But as the child training thing - its frightening - I am shocked at what I am reading.
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Do realize that crate training is most definitely not acceptable for use with human beings, as we are able to communicate and suffer and be emotionally scarred.
But then again a lot of kids are tied up or put in seclusion as crate training of sorts in programs anyway.
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Do realize that crate training is most definitely not acceptable for use with human beings, as we are able to communicate and suffer and be emotionally scarred.
But then again a lot of kids are tied up or put in seclusion as crate training of sorts in programs anyway.
Oh agreed - Crate training is not acceptable child training!
And whether it is helpful or harmful with puppies depends greatly upon the common sense of the person.
What takes place in the programs would be considered animal cruelty if done to a dog. In fact - the dog would have more protection under the law than the kids in these programs.
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Check this out StopBaptistPredators.org (http://StopBaptistPredators.org) It's a website for an organization trying to reveal sexual abuse in Baptist churches, I believe it's the Baptist wing of SNAP(folks who totally pwnd the catholic church over abuse).
It's important to this program because I think that more then just beatings are going on at this school. It reminds me to much of New Bethany, the Roloff homes, VCA, and the elk.
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I'm still waiting on an explanation why its ok to torture and humiliate children but not adults :roll:
It's not ok... Kids can't fight back as well, so they're more easily victimized.
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I'm still waiting on an explanation why its ok to torture and humiliate children but not adults :roll:
It's not ok... Kids can't fight back as well, so they're more easily victimized.
I think his point is partially: Why are people so upset about things like Gitmo, and not upset about places like TB? Why are suspected "terrorists" entitled to more protection than suspected "druggies"?
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I think that its largely a problem of disbelief. People do not believe that places like TB exist. When you tell them - they just don't believe it. While there has been sporadic news coverage; it has never been allowed an in-depth and on going debate. Consequently, I feel the issue skips off the average American Psyche much like a stone skips over a pond. It eventually slips in somewhere - and we find a rare person who learns of the issue and takes up the challenge to halt the abuse - but most people see the stories - and say how awful, and then forget about it.
I find myself wondering at the on-going newscoverage about dog-fighting; as compares to the lack of concern about teen's being forced to beat one another up - in more ways than one - in these un-regulated programs. Why are people not rising up and demanding that American Kids be given at least as much protection under the law as American Pit Bulls?
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I think that its largely a problem of disbelief. People do not believe that places like TB exist. When you tell them - they just don't believe it. While there has been sporadic news coverage; it has never been allowed an in-depth and on going debate. Consequently, I feel the issue skips off the average American Psyche much like a stone skips over a pond. It eventually slips in somewhere - and we find a rare person who learns of the issue and takes up the challenge to halt the abuse - but most people see the stories - and say how awful, and then forget about it.
well here is my 2 cents...Perhaps the problem is not so much one of disbelief that such places exist but more that they can't possibly be as bad as all that. I can remember reading tales from parents who had pulled their kids from abusive places or whose kids had died in wilderness camps and wondering why the hell they did not ask more questions before sending the kid. But then it dawned upon me that if I were a parent it would not occur to me to ask some of these questions because it would be assumed that such practices would not exist (withholding of food, being punished for looking at the opposite sex etc.) So I can also see why when kids make complaints about crazy things happening they are sometimes seen as guilding the lilly.
Another problem with the whole idea of public out rage etc is that there are so many social causes and problems we all tend to suffer from compassion fatigue a bit I think. The kids in these places are middle class American children who in many cases have parents claiming that they are out of control monsters. So many just feel that the starving baby in the third world or the refugee child behind bars is a far greater thing to get all worked up about. When this is coupled with the quite reasonable belief that a parent should largely be able to educate their child in a way that they see fit it has the effect of diluting anger toward places like this. Brat Camp is being shown in Oz after a long time being shelved & the reviews very much reflect this. There is a general sense of unease about the practices shown followed by a sense that the parents must have been really desperate and so perhaps only this level of cruelty will get through to such kids. While i was somewhat relieved that the reviews were not gung ho in favour of brat camp it was immensely frustrating to me that they seemed to really miss the big picture
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My niece has just been sent to this school by my insane sister-in-law (I agree, it is a cult.) I can't even send her letters- any that are "controversal" are thrown are (they're all pre-read.)
I've been trying to find out more about this school. The more I do, the worse it looks.
Being in constant contact with Hephzibah House, I am aware of how many students are enrolled and when they arrive at the school. This being said, the writer above can be none other than my sister (assuming this writer is not just lying through their teeth in an attempt to connect with people who might make her feel special). So, here are a few facts about this writer who is so concerned with my daughter’s wellbeing.
She is young, having just finished her required hours of supervised driving in order to obtain a driver’s license. And being a young lady living in a broken home (Mom got fed up and left), she is looking for some diversions from her present situation.
She has shown zero concern for her niece, or any other member of my immediate family, from the time she was old enough to speak. This being due in part to her addiction to video games, which seem to keep her confined to her room whenever she is not in school or at work (she works at a video game store in a wealthy suburban neighborhood, this way she says she can get the new games as soon as they come out).
During the time I was deployed to Iraq, she sent me zero letters. My Mother, who grew up in Thailand and is not fluent in the English language, asked my sister repeatedly to assist her in writing me a letter, to which she declined due to being preoccupied with her video games. The few times I was able to call home and speak to my Mom, half our time was her apologizing for not ever learning to write in English well enough to generate a letter to send to me.
She has time to post over 34 posting on the Veritaserum Forums – Everything Harry Potter, yet did not have time to speak with me when I called her house after returning from a combat zone. Apparently my experiences of being mortared many times, being attacked by suicide bombers, convoying through IED infested roadways, being in the target of snipers, flying in a chopper over enemy combatants on a monthly basis and living to tell about it, isn’t as exciting as Harry and his little witchcraft tricks.
She has sent my daughter zero letters. I call back to the states to talk to my parents about once a month, my daughter is always present and always asks to speak to my sister. She has had time to speak to my daughter only 3 or 4 times in the past 5-6 years. What a concerned Aunt.
After reading through all your postings, I noticed a numerous amount of statements started with I imagine, I can only guess, I wonder, I bet….and so on. So I will go ahead and say, I bet when they read this message they will post all sorts of guesses as to what type of person I am. I am looking forward to hearing all the nasty things you will tell each other I must be, just to convince yourselves that you are in control. Please don’t wait for my reply, I just spent a year in a country that wanted me dead and am looking at another tour in the near future, as enemies-you don’t really compare.
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Sorry but I couldn't care less about your family issues, I do care about the kids stuck in this crazy school. What can you tell us about the school, rules, level of parent child contact allowed, staff qualifications...
This place truly smacks of all the other confirmed abusive Baptist fundamentalist schools I've look at, you should be concerned.
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Sorry but I couldn't care less about your family issues, I do care about the kids stuck in this crazy school. What can you tell us about the school, rules, level of parent child contact allowed, staff qualifications...
This place truly smacks of all the other confirmed abusive Baptist fundamentalist schools I've look at, you should be concerned.
Ditto.
Mom, are you seriously comfortable with someone like this "caring" for your child??? If so, there really isn't anything to say. That's just twisted.
I don't think I've ever seen something so disturbing. Those people are goners, over the moon, off the charts nutters. At least they're crazy enough that it's obvious they're crazy. Most of these places fly under the radar and go to great lengths to appear normal or discount any stories of abuse. These fuckers state right out that they're going to beat your kid into submission. :flame:
"When should a parent start using the rod of correction on a child that the Lord has brought into the family? There is no clear and specific answer to this very good question. However, it is my opinion that the correction of children should start as soon as the need for that correction is made manifest. Every discerning parent who has been blessed with a little child in his home realizes that his initial impression of the sweetness and the innocence of the child is in reality an illusion. A child very quickly demonstrates his fallen, depraved nature and reveals himself to be a selfish little beast in manifold ways. As soon as the child begins to express his own self-will (and this occurs early in life) that child needs to receive correction. My wife and I have a general goal of making sure that each of our children has his will broken by the time he reaches the age of one year. ***** To do this, a child must receive correction when he is a small infant.*****Every parent recognizes that this self-will begins early as he has witnessed his child stiffen his back and boldly demonstrate his rebellion and self-will even though he has been fed, diapered, and cared for in every other physical way."
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///So I will go ahead and say, I bet when they read this message they will post all sorts of guesses as to what type of person I am. I am looking forward to hearing all the nasty things you will tell each other I must be, just to convince yourselves that you are in control.///
Well you have helped a lot with the need to "guess" what kind of person you are. You are the kind of person who can not tolerate criticism of your actions, no matter how outrageous they may be - and you will personally attack anyone who questions them. I bet, your little sister has good reason for avoiding you.
You have placed your daughter into a lock down facility owned and operated by a man who advocates beating children - even infants - into submission. This is insane. If you treated the POWs in Iraqi the way this man treats children, you'd be charged with war crimes. As far as I am concerned, you should be arrested and charged with child abuse, along with the monster of a man who calls himself a pastor. Believe me, I will be doing all I can to see that this happens
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I have a few questions for the Iraqi solder who has placed her daughter into a prison where she can be tortured into submission in Jesus' name:
How do you ignore Jesus' clear warning about the danger to the soul of one who hurts a child and damages their faith?
How do you ignore His great compassion for the sinful men and women He met in His years of tramping about the nation healing the sick and preaching to the poor?
How do you ignore His dire pronouncements against the hypocritical, legalistic oppressors of the people?
Why do you want to believe He wants you to beat your children?
And if a child - why not a grown man or woman who is found to be in rebellion? Why not tie you to a post and flail away at your back, when you lie, or cheat, or steel, or fornicate?
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buzzkill you hit the nail on the head.
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(http://http://www.torturedkids.com/images/troll10.png)
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His children turned out great, serving the Lord and never went into a "rebelious stage". His grand children are not in rebellion. They are happy. The end results is what we want.
By the time he gets girls in his home the parents are fed up with them and do not have a clue what to do with them. They are afraid that they may get pregnant, break the law, or get into drug if they are not already, and hang around the wrong crowd.
Many of these girls were never disciplined on a regular basics, therefore it was embedded in them to have their own selfish way. By the time Hep House gets them, discipline with a paddle is pretty much out of the question. Hep House kept them busy in homeschooling, chores etc. They had a regular ridged schedule. Every minute was used wisely. They had not much time to get into trouble. No idle time. They heard preaching on rebellion and God's love and patience and the results of sin if continued.
Many girls come to the home just to get away from their own home environment. Hep House is like a safe haven. He never calls these girls "harlots".
Their are many adults today that have not been disciplined and it shows by their rebellion to society, or government or church or elderly parents.
Just look at their language and dress.
And we wonder what's gotten into the young people today!!
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discipline with a paddle is pretty much out of the question
But not entirely, huh? You know, you could hang out on 12chan.org for a while (pass regularly updated on encyclopediadramatica.com) and post vid, and offer more for money. You'd get rich in a hurry. Other pedos love to see that shit.
Many girls come to the home just to get away from their own home environment.
I'd be laughing, only it's not funny. Peddle that bullshit somewhere else.
You know what, Lea? You can prattle on about "rebellion" and "sin" and "God's love" all you want, but at the end of the day, you've still got your husband doing whatever he wants to incarcerated teenage girls. Now I know that gave half the occasional male readers of Fornits a hard-on, but suddenly this shit becomes a whole lot different after it leaves the realm of fantasy, where it belongs.
Let the fucking kids go, dress yourself up (This site (http://http://www.ldfashions.com) might help), and keep this between you and your husband in your goddamn bedroom.
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Proverbs 13:24
Deuteronomy 6: 7-10
TEACH THEM (CHILDREN) DAILY ....
TALK TO THEM WHEN THOU SITTIST IN THY HOUSE,...
WALKEST ...
LIEST DOWN...RISETH UP...
Discipline is a continual teaching
I know that there are Cildren's homes that are abusive, but this home is not one of them. This place was the next step for some of these girls before reform school, juvinile or jail.
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Proverbs 13:24
Deuteronomy 6: 7-10
Isn't it great when you can find some Bible phrase that you can twist into supporting your fetishistic desires? Why not just quote Anton LaVey and be more honest?
This place was the next step for some of these girls before reform school, juvinile or jail.
:roll:
They all trot out "deadorinjail" or some variant sooner or later, don't they?
But so long as you can continue to justify what you're doing as somehow saving them, you'll just keep right on doing it, until the Indiana State Police or someone else with sanity puts your shitpit out of everyone's misery.
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Proverbs 13:24
Deuteronomy 6: 7-10
TEACH THEM (CHILDREN) DAILY ....
TALK TO THEM WHEN THOU SITTIST IN THY HOUSE,...
WALKEST ...
LIEST DOWN...RISETH UP...
Discipline is a continual teaching
As we can see from the philosophies of this sick freak.
"When should a parent start using the rod of correction on a child that the Lord has brought into the family? There is no clear and specific answer to this very good question. However, it is my opinion that the correction of children should start as soon as the need for that correction is made manifest. Every discerning parent who has been blessed with a little child in his home realizes that his initial impression of the sweetness and the innocence of the child is in reality an illusion. A child very quickly demonstrates his fallen, depraved nature and reveals himself to be a selfish little beast in manifold ways. :o :o As soon as the child begins to express his own self-will (and this occurs early in life) that child needs to receive correction. My wife and I have a general goal of making sure that each of our children has his will broken by the time he reaches the age of one year. ***** :o :o To do this, a child must receive correction when he is a small infant.***** :scared: :scared: Every parent recognizes that this self-will begins early as he has witnessed his child stiffen his back and boldly demonstrate his rebellion and self-will even though he has been fed, diapered, and cared for in every other physical way."
Those selfish little 1 year old brats!!! Beat them!! Beat the debil right outta them. :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
You people are some of the worst I've ever come across. You absolutely disgust me with your holier than thou bullshit.
I know that there are Cildren's homes that are abusive, but this home is not one of them. This place was the next step for some of these girls before reform school, juvinile or jail.
Ah, there it is. Deadinsaneorinjail. Yeah, yeah. According to the rantings of the lunatics that ran the program I was in, I should have been dead loooooong ago.
:o :scared: :scared: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: ::fuckoff::
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Jeebus save my kid while I go kill me some muslim I-rackies
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Lyn:
You have in his own words, a long and very detailed sermon on the subject of beating children (starting in infancy) with stout sticks. You can not now try to claim this isn't what the man has taught his congregation; nor what he does to the children in his family; And as he also explains this is the advice he gives when parents seek his counsel, and he has no beds available, it is absolutely reasonable to assume he also beats the girls held captive in his reform school.
Personally, I feel strongly what this man advocates is criminal (he in fact acknowledges this in his sermon) and that he is not a Christian pastor of any kind; but rather a dangerous cult leader, guilty of gross examples of child abuse, not un-like Mr. Warren Jeffs; and that he should be arrested and prosecuted in like manner.
If you knowingly place your child in such an abusive situation then you too are guilty of child abuse. Now you know. Stop with the excuses already. There are no excuses. Repent before God and bring your daughter home.
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Heh, I was going off the assumption that she helped run the place. She might as well be his wife, the way her daughter's getting fucked.
If Christ ever returns to this world, the first thing He's gonna do is upchuck all over the place at what's been done in His name.
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Heh, I was going off the assumption that she helped run the place.
Well maybe your right. Its hard to say. I might have misunderstood this to be the mom.
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I've never heard of 12chan.org or the crossdressing site you put a link to, I don't believe many people have. You sick, sick pervert....disgusting. When you say "other pedos", you are refering to ones other than yourself??
It looks like a few people on this site have a genuine concern, sounds like some of them were in some pretty bad places. Probably don't want a cross-dressing, pedophile who fantasizes about incarcerated teenage girls backing up their argument.
But not entirely, huh? You know, you could hang out on 12chan.org for a while (pass regularly updated on encyclopediadramatica.com) and post vid, and offer more for money. You'd get rich in a hurry. Other pedos love to see that shit.
[/quote]
You know what, Lea? You can prattle on about "rebellion" and "sin" and "God's love" all you want, but at the end of the day, you've still got your husband doing whatever he wants to incarcerated teenage girls. Now I know that gave half the occasional male readers of Fornits a hard-on, but suddenly this shit becomes a whole lot different after it leaves the realm of fantasy, where it belongs.
Let the fucking kids go, dress yourself up (This site (http://http://www.ldfashions.com) might help), and keep this between you and your husband in your goddamn bedroom.[/quote]
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I've never heard of 12chan.org or the crossdressing site you put a link to, I don't believe many people have. You sick, sick pervert....disgusting. When you say "other pedos", you are refering to ones other than yourself??
It looks like a few people on this site have a genuine concern, sounds like some of them were in some pretty bad places. Probably don't want a cross-dressing, pedophile who fantasizes about incarcerated teenage girls backing up their argument.
Are you the same anon that posted this? If not, please disregard the following, it is directed at them.
His children turned out great, serving the Lord and never went into a "rebelious stage". His grand children are not in rebellion. They are happy. The end results is what we want.
By the time he gets girls in his home the parents are fed up with them and do not have a clue what to do with them. They are afraid that they may get pregnant, break the law, or get into drug if they are not already, and hang around the wrong crowd.
Afraid? They're afraid something bad will happen to them??? This is why normal people refer to y'all as nutbars. Holy fucking hell.
Many of these girls were never disciplined on a regular basics, therefore it was embedded in them to have their own selfish way.
Oh the selfish little shits. How dare they get a mind of their own. How dare[/i] they question the path I've layed out for them.
You people disgust me.
::puke::
By the time Hep House gets them, discipline with a paddle is pretty much out of the question. Hep House kept them busy in homeschooling, chores etc. They had a regular ridged schedule. Every minute was used wisely. They had not much time to get into trouble. No idle time. They heard preaching on rebellion and God's love and patience and the results of sin if continued.
From what the man says himself, I absolutely believe the "paddle" is NOT out of the question.
Isolation, take up their time with meaningless tasks so they dont' have any time to think or process what's happening to them. No time to begin to question what's being done.
Many girls come to the home just to get away from their own home environment. Hep House is like a safe haven. He never calls these girls "harlots".
Their are many adults today that have not been disciplined and it shows by their rebellion to society, or government or church or elderly parents.
Just look at their language and dress.
And we wonder what's gotten into the young people today!!
No, religious nutbags like YOU wonder what's gotten into young people today. Your belief in adult fairy tales has buried any ability you ever had for critical thought and allows you to abuse countless girls in the name of the almighty. Fear mongering morons like you give me the creeps. Take you god and shove him right up your ass!
(This post is directed at the religious morons who run and support this place)
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Bump for disturbing sickness.
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What's really disturbing is there are 1000 more of these houses out there we've never heard of. Maybe there is one in your neighborhood and you don't even know it.
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I can't believe no one pasted in this nifty little acronym from their site:
B - Being
U - Under
S - Satan’s
Y – Yoke
:roll:
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I can't believe no one pasted in this nifty little acronym from their site:
B - Being
U - Under
S - Satan’s
Y – Yoke
:roll:
Wait a sec, so they're saying it's bad to be busy? I thought these Christian types said things like "idle hands are the devil's playground." They should get their dumbass slogans straight.
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BUMP for recent request for info.
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I want to see a grudge match between Roloff and my man Anton LaVey. Ignoring that they're both dead.
..Anton would totally kick his ass. >.>
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I hereby challenge any programmie to a MMA fight if someone can get it sanctioned.
No questions asked either.
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From a source I wont tell more about Covergaard got some info, we used to scan the area AND WE HAVE FOUND THE HOUSE, they detain the girls in.
Someone close to the program have tried to edit the fornits wiki page, so it looked better and we agreed to add a dispute text in the top of the article.
To the owners of IP-address 66.228.107.84 and 66.228.99.238. Please use the link to Fornits webforum called "Hephzibah House vandalizing the Wiki page about themselves ?" to discuss your reasons for editing this page and introduce your case.
We are interested in dialogue - not in a revert war. The question is: Are the other side interested? It takes two to tango.
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Those sodbusters are batshit crazy.
Scary, scary, scary shit.
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bump
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Hey, what happeed to FormerHephzibahGirls' website? http://formerhephzibahgirls.webs.com/ (http://formerhephzibahgirls.webs.com/) For a minute there, it was a generic css layout with a latin pop music video in it. WTF??? Seems to be back now.