Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: sabro on July 28, 2005, 11:22:00 AM
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Geoff posted on rimoftheworld.net. Everyone he knows from Cedu had pretty hard lives after leaving. That got me thinking of all the kids that I hung out with 12 years ago and what came of them.
I read the other threads...Boy, lots of hostility...
I was just wondering what became of the kids I knew from 1991-2 or so.
I was on staff for about a year, and came in to fill gaps for about four more. I was part of a crowd that tried to change things- brought in austensibly to help with accreditation and strengthen the academics.
I still run into Russ Decker from time to time, although I haven't seen him lately. He married Kim, the receptionist. I see Donna Dillman- now married- at school functions. Dennis Docksteader lives up the street at Music Camp. I haven't heard from Luke Nemo all summer- but he tends to disappear for long periods of time. I also see Carl Kent- but not since the closure.
I went back to public school after I left. I still do some outdoor education, but I just took a job as an assistant Principal, and I am a little busy.
Justin, Tom (x2), Rachael (x2), Mary, Tyler, John, ... and so many others... where are you?Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other.
--James Madison
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I was at cedu from 1991-1993. Your name (or is that your name?) doesn't sound familiar. Who are you? I'm Victoria- was in the peer group that graduated Dec 1993.
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My name is Sabro Foster. I worked there for about a year, mostly in Challenge- I taught History, Math and English, and then later I helped out part time at the middle school. I hung out with Luke Nemo.
I almost forgot- I see Guy Bonnano all the time. He's the Principal at Rim High School.
BTW, I'm not great at names. After 18 years of teaching, I've had literally thousands of students.
I would also be interested in hearing from Robert, Sean, Dave, Jen, Heather, Marie or Jade...
I did correspond with Bryan Felscher briefly on a motorcycle website, and then he just disappeared.
Also if you remember any of the Quiroz family- Robert, Laura, Abbot, Linda... I see some of them around Running Springs[ This Message was edited by: sabro on 2005-07-28 14:28 ]
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Hey Sabro. Its me- Bryan, I had a really rough time after leaving. I'm doing very well now. 2 kids, engaged to be married, General Manager of an Aerospace machine shop, considering a new home in Temecula or Murrieta. Life's mostly good.
Still have that bike, but I chopped the front, made a custom swinger my self spending only $100 on Steel- machined I think 26 different components and welded it all up at 47 degrees with a 75 inch wheelbase and strutted it hardtail. You wouldn't recognize the bike anymore! Now, I ride mostly dirt, and only 2 strokes on the street.
I think when I talked to you it was about 4 years ago. Take care, and good luck. You and Luke were about the only staff their I could ever look back on fondly.
CEDU is a cult, not a school.
I am disgusted now- being 29 years old and a father of two, and I consider myself a good man.
Do a search on this site. A lot of the people you know are DEAD from suicide.
Sasheen, Rory, Beau- and there's more. My little brother from their killed himself. I don't even recall his name. They were failed and their adolescence raped by CEDU.
I'm disgusted, that people like you, SABRO- good men like yourself could ever remain on social terms with men and women like GUY BONNANO, or RUSS DECKER, or DONNA DILLMAN, after what YOU KNOW they made kids do and go through!
I regret I ever thought you were a stand-up guy.
You're just a complacent, common, spineless man.
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Hey Sabro. Its me- Bryan, I had a really rough time after leaving. I'm doing very well now. 2 kids, engaged to be married, General Manager of an Aerospace machine shop, considering a new home in Temecula or Murrieta. Life's mostly good.
Still have that bike, but I chopped the front, made a custom swinger my self spending only $100 on Steel- machined I think 26 different components and welded it all up at 47 degrees with a 75 inch wheelbase and strutted it hardtail. You wouldn't recognize the bike anymore! Now, I ride mostly dirt, and only 2 strokes on the street.
I think when I talked to you it was about 4 years ago. Take care, and good luck. You and Luke were about the only staff their I could ever look back on fondly.
CEDU is a cult, not a school.
I am disgusted now- being 29 years old and a father of two, and I consider myself a good man.
Do a search on this site. A lot of the people you know are DEAD from suicide.
Sasheen, Rory, Beau- and there's more. My little brother from their killed himself. I don't even recall his name. They were failed and their adolescence raped by CEDU.
I'm disgusted, that people like you, SABRO- good men like yourself could ever remain on social terms with men and women like GUY BONNANO, or RUSS DECKER, or DONNA DILLMAN, after what YOU KNOW they made kids do and go through!
I regret I ever thought you were a stand-up guy.
You're just a complacent, common, spineless man.
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:eek: I found a website that has CEDU discussion going on. http://www.rimoftheworld.net (http://www.rimoftheworld.net) check it out.
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::has a moment of mourning for the dead that Byran talked about:: :sad:
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Hey, before you hang Sabro up by his heels, If he still lives in the Running Springs area, it's a small town and you can't help but run into people you knew, whether you want to or not! I heard that Guy Bonanno is the principal of Rim High, so if Sabro was a teacher, it's logical he'd have some sort of contact with him. I hear Joel Smith was there, too. Donna used to be in Search and Rescue up there, so I imagine she is out and about the town, too. Russ Decker? I heard he left CEDU and is going to school to be a legit therapist.
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I got rid of my Savage-- I guess about 4 years ago. The guy took off the rear seat, re-did the fender and the exhaust and painted it a really deep green. It looks great... I'm looking for a new bike now.
Sorry you feel that I am spinless and complacent. (I admit to being quite common.) I worked at CEDU for about 14 months when I was 27 years old. (Younger than you are now.) I really had hopes that that school could do some good for kids, and guys like me and Luke and Ron Davis fought hard to make positive changes. When I saw something I didn't like I brought it up with Bill Valentine, Rudy and Tim Brace. It didn't make me popular among the staff- and I was continually accused of being not a "team player" and "running an underground." I have no regrets.
I worked with Guy at the high school for one term after that, and I see him, Russ and Donna at community events. It's not like I hang out with them- although I don't hate them at all. (It's just not the way I am.)
I try to get together with Luke as often as possible, but he has this habbit of disappearing for months or years at a time.
I get Christmas cards from Mariana with pictures of her two boys.
I see that you have heard from Jackson... Are there other people you are in touch with? (Jackson still has the record for "The Ten Commandments" over at Alpine.)Totalitarianism is like a specter which drinks the blood of the living and so achieves reality, while the victims go on existing as a mass of living corpses.
Karl Jaspers, The Fight Against Totalitarianism (1963)
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I don't know you---didn't go to that school but for what it;s worth I think some of the posters here ought to grow the fuck up
It's a free country I sure wouldn't let anyone tell me who I should be associating with and on what terms
If their whole opinion of me changed because I had friends/associates they didn't like---well Id just try to view it as an opportunity for them to deal with some seriously unresolved issues---that a lot of us put to rest around 3rd grade
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I've been in education now for over 18 years, and I have always been proud of the kind of work I have done. I spent two hours looking over old posts on this forum and on the cedualumni site to read of the suffering Cedu caused. It was a small part of my career, and now I feel the need to find out more about what happened- what were the consequences and long term effects of the program.
Anony- Thanks for the kind words. I'm more curious now than ever before about what is going on with those young people I knew. Was it a Cult? It certainly had the hallmarks of one. I remember when Mel visited and how revered he was. Never "got" that part. It's gone now. Dead. (Although you know many of these people are still working with kids in capacities that they really don't understand.)
You don't know how stupid I feel when I find out what kind of pain and damage I helped to inflict. I sincerely tried to accomplish good things- and I think the bulk of the staff there really cared. Although it doesn't compensate for the pain and anger that it caused, I do think the program did some kids some good. (Buying a guy an ice cream cone after you torture and kill his dog doesn't make it right.) I always hoped the program could be "fixed" and never knew how sick and twisted it really was.
I am a professional, and as long as I stick to what I know- teaching, I am fine. But therapy, counseling? No degree or training in the area- I don't consider myself a therapist and I never have. Don't give amatuers, however well intentioned, such control though- it's like giving dynamite to a toddler.
Also, I used to run into Jack and Matt a lot. Both were there far longer than I was and Jack regrets the whole experience. Carla Malewicz is a counselor at Bloomington Middle school. (I was at Bloomington HS, so we corresponded a little.)
Dan Tarabek, I think the IRS is looking for you again. God bless you bro, but pay your taxes!
There was an investigation back in the early 90's. A staff member named Beth contacted the SB county DA, and they interviewed a bunch of us. Cedu lawyers contacted us about 6 months after the DA's group and individual interviews. About ten years ago I had to give a deposition about the disappearance of a kid named Blake from the middle school. I was named in the wrongful death suit ahead of the school, but I didn't have much to say. I think the suit was dismissed.
I see Beth Hallmark fairly often. She has fibriomyalgia and is having a bit of a problem working full days.
I ran into Tyler Mars once- he was rushing off to go snowboarding- must have been 12 years ago...I am not a great believer in school. School is primarily an institution for the perpetuation of adolescence...The thought that school educates is not one I have accepted yet...Thank God I am not young. I could not survive this horror.
--Peter F. Drucker
[ This Message was edited by: sabro on 2005-07-29 15:23 ]
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Well, I do hate them, anyone like them, and anyone who's their friend. I've never been the type to give people phony smiles, and never been able to resist the urge to tell people like Guy or Russ exactly what I think of them. Did you know that Russ Decker participated in a gang rape? Did you know that he lit a homeless man on fire? Come on, Sabro- you heard him cop to that in raps, and if you didn't, there's others here besides me that heard it.
And what about Guy and strange conversations about fucking dogs, and sicker shit than that?
Or Donna Dillman on OUR Wilderness Challenge Rap- making everyone in a circle state whether or NOT, they'd jerked off during their solo? You were there with me? You don't remember? I have a 15 year old little sister, and if I ever found out someone like Donna or Guy or Russ was having the kind of inappropriate (to state it mildly, for a mind in denial) conversation with her, I couldn't just SIT there and "complain" to Bill Valentine, or Tim Brace about it!!!
You should have called the cops or some kind of authority, but you failed us, because you're nothing but a coward!
27 years old, huh? And still no balls whatsoever at that age. Maybe you'll grow some someday. Until then, you're just another guy who stood in the background and watched, and made a few mild suggestions, maybe, and now some kids are DEAD from suicide that you KNOW, because you were too much of a coward. And what did you do after you left? Did you whistle blow?
NO! Guilty as the rest of them.
I don't hate you for it. Most men in this world would have done the same. Stand for something or fall for everything. Well, you and everyone else who saw, and was shocked, but did NOTHING, failed us all, and countless kids are DEAD or ruined from that, and they could have all been saved.
What to do now? I'd start by not giving Russ, Guy, or Donna that friendly smile you probably give them, and when you see Guy, think about him BRUTALIZING Beau Riddle over and over and over and over again in raps- verbally tearing him down, until he had NO SELF WORTH LEFT.
Then think about him in London, putting a gun in his mouth and blowing his brains out.
Or Sasheen Dobson. Beautiful Indian girl. Very innocent, and forced to give exacting details by Guy Bonnano of her entire masturbation history to all of us, including 17-18 year old boys and older staff men. SHE WAS 13 FUCKING YEARS OLD!
Younger than my little sister. I'd kill a man, if they did that to my sister.
But like everyone else, you just went with the flow- maybe some half-ass complaints, and then left without reporting a thing.
Fuck You for doing that.
You were 27 years old, and old enough to make a stand!
But you didn't, and now you give Guy, Donna, and Russ the friendly nod, and that sociable smile.
Fucking spineless coward. My last words to you.
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So much for "doing well now." Your post pisses me off, especially the hit and run "My last words to you." approach.
I came to Cedu as a teacher and I did my job well. I wrote curriculum, I helped them earn accreditation. On most days I had a good time, whether cleaning, teaching or playing basketball. At the time I saw students who's lives had been spiraling out of control seem to be getting the help they needed. At least they weren't on the streets or on drugs or participating in some bizarre high risk behavior. Extereme measures for extreme circumstances. So I thought...
No, I never heard Russ cop to either setting a homeless man on fire or to gang rapes. And you have no idea of what conversations I had with the deputy DA, child protective services, or what I did do about the stuff I saw or what I did not do. Do you know for a fact that none of us, including Beth, Jack, Mariana and Luke blew the whistle, or has Cedu taught you to just stick your head as far up your ass as you can and spout off with some kind of adolescent self rightousness? Rudy has taught you well.
You of all people know how much time I spent in Brace's office, and how I was pulled from raps and propheets. (Such a punishment...) You have never heard me say or do anything abusive, or inappropriate or even cuss. Save your "fuck you's" for the people that really deserve them.
By the way you seem to know that a gang rapist- murderer is on the loose. What kind of balls do you have? What have you done about it? There is no statute of limitations on murder. Where and when was this supposed to have happened? I have no problems alerting the authorities to a crime like that. What is your problem? Tell me which police department to call and I'll be on the phone immediately.
Of all the stuff I saw, according to the district attorney, none of it was his opinion illegal. Not my decision, but the deputy DA's name was Connelly and his number is published.
Guy Bonnano is the principal of my son's high school, (909) 336-2038. You can google the school and get his e-mail also. I don't know if I give him a friendly smile or a socialble nod, but if I felt the pain, injustice and anger you're pissing out here, I might vent it at the real target and not some peripheral character of your nightmares. What I needed to say to him I said to him years ago- and never did I ever feel like being anything but cordial to him- especially since I do have to work with him- as if not carrying some bitter grudge for decades is some kind of character flaw. What do you suggest, a weekly kick in the ankle? Get real. I'm not the one who wants or need to confront him.
I certainly never had the dog conversation with him.
I won't speak ill of the dead, nor will I blame those lost souls for the pain they must have endured. But I feel confident that I did not fail them, and bear no guilt for actions of kids I may have barely or possibly never met for actions that occurred years later. People with problems sometimes kill themselves. You can blame it on a lot of things, Cedu if it is convenient, you can blame yourself for not being there when they needed you, but blaming it on me seems irrational.
Until Geoff alerted me to this board, I really had no idea what kind of deep injury CEDU caused in so many people. Your manic posts speak volumes to this. I had hoped that some good was coming out of all of this.
Go in peace. I hope you can put the pain anger and bitterness behind you. Cedu has stolen enough of your life already.The problem with the "teen help" industry is that it's a bad "solution" in search of a problem.
Julie C.
[ This Message was edited by: sabro on 2005-07-29 22:33 ]
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Thanks, Sabro. I was very much involved with the detective at the Twin Peaks station and I told him everything I know about abuses at the schoool, and all about Russ Decker- who at the time, he was already concentrating a lot of effort on. In a nut shell, he told me I'm was one of very few helping him, and the case was basically dropped when the investigator (Damn someone help me- I can't remember his name) left his position and moved to the Highland division.
I've spoken to numerous parents, and if you search some of my posts, you'll see I tried my best to round up a peaceful, organized, dissent preferably on a parent conference day, and I'll I could ever get in responce here was talk, talk, talk, no action at all.
I've been an activist most of my life. From childhood in 1986 fighting the Marcos Regime with my mom with the non-profit group Tulong Sa Bayan, and since then with the Democratic party.
My assumptions were wrong, and I appologize for my mania. I won't defend whether I'm sad and/or bitter, because although I'm angry still, I don't consider myself a sad or bitter person. You, however, have much more integrity than I thought, and maybe its just too easy for me to lump all the ex-staff of CEDU into one label and hate them all.
Did I say these things to muckrake? Maybe, but I remember you being one of the only staff there I respected, and I liked you a lot, and I just had to know where your head's really at, because I have nothing but bad memories of that place and honestly, other than you and Luke Nemo- I hate them all.
You were only 27 years old, and probably more idealistic than most, and maybe you were a victim, too in a way, or maybe you just plain did all you could at the time. I don't know. I remember when you lost your spoon out in the wilderness, and I remember you making chop sticks.
Why aren't you angry when you see Guy? Because I guess it just wasn't as personal. You were staff- I was a student. There's a big difference in perspective, and I know you know that.
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"You of all people know how much time I spent in Brace's office, and how I was pulled from raps and propheets. (Such a punishment...) You have never heard me say or do anything abusive, or inappropriate or even cuss."
Yes, I remember now. This is true. My whole anger came out, when I mistakenly perceived that you- a person that I really looked up to as a 15 year old dumb kid and in my memory was the only thing good about a place that for me was a nightmare, were on social terms with people I consider to be abusers.
Including Donna Dillman. Or was she just a victim of cultish brainwashing? Is it okay to participate in what you know damn well was psychological abuse- just because you think you're helping kids?
What were the staff's motivations? Sadism, power, or did they really foolish enough to think they were helping? There were many laws broken there, Sabro. Reading our mail? Censoring our mail and phonecalls? Denying the right to practice religion? If I asked to go to church, by law I was supposed to be allowed to on any given sunday. It was up on the walls there, as legally, our rights as students had to be displayed.
Just because I'm angry, doesn't mean I'm crazy. I'll calm down. Peace to you, too. I'm glad that you're still the way I remember you. Never yelled, never cussed, never got angry, and always sincere. Damn Sabro. If you knew what I did after I got out of there to become free again of CEDU's grip. Am I ever free? I know that you saying that Rudy taught me well, really stung. Yeah, he did. I wish I never learned that. I wish I could erase everything I ever learned to do or think from there.
Tell me the truth about one thing:
When I got busted for having that underground with 4 other peers, I was so scared that you would be mad at me, and you were the only staff I didn't ever want to disappoint. Yet, I don't remember you ever being mad in a rap or anything- but that's about the time we weren't as close of friends anymore.
Do you remember that? You were actually proud of me, weren't you? For being able to keep myself individual, even while they were trying to take everyone's individuality away.
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Until I found this board I could always entertain the illusion that we did good things- that the kids turned out okay...I spent an hour reading exchanges between Ottowa 5 and 2 and you and Shanlea and the big Serbian guy (who was there with you and I cant for the life of me remember or figure out who that is.) It tears me up. The worst of our fears as newbie staff members was actually true. It's one in the morning and I can't drop this thing. We thought: As long as the program was effective- the rest of the crap didn't matter. (How wrong I was.)
I was always thinking until the day I heard the school closed of how it could be fixed- of what kind of improvements needed to be made. (Carl Kent was in contact with me- I have an administrative credential and he was thinking of retiring soon.) I thought I could turn it into a real school- with real academics, and people more interested in helping than controlling.
It was always easy for me to simply dismiss the "true believers" on staff. The whole CEDU things means more to them than god. Guy is still a jerk- and I mean that in a NICE way. He's always getting himself in trouble for just doing whatever he wants. But he is an effective principal and runs a pretty good school. You have to remember too, I didn't work with Guy much, but Luke did and he can't even say the guy's name without a visceral response. (Remeber when Luke broke his foot and had to spend all his time supervising work assignments in the snow?)
I read the other thread about Russ and I am serious about the statute of limitations thing. A lot of people think he made stuff like that up, but who knows?
I still have the spoon and chopsticks I carved on our Wilderness Challenge. I remember following Kevin's finals group up and over some god-aweful snowed in pass and down through the bushes.
10 years after leaving Cedu I had to come in for a deposition on something.
And as for being proud- there were a lot of people, including you that I was proud to know- proud to see stand up to bullying and humiliation. Survival sometimes is the ultimate victory-- I think that's why I want to find out what happened to people. Just remember that the program was designed for heroine addicts, not kids with behavior problems on the fringes of the normal range. Even the "look goods" I respected- for finding something that worked.
Until now, the only Cedu kids that I ran into were in that sheep category- the guys that came up here to visit- the ones that stayed past their 18th birthday- that ask you ten years after the fact how you are doing with your "brothers." They did a lot to help preserve my illusions... but give me a bit more time to read more of these posts.
I called Luke to give him the web site, but no answer. (My version of "Finding Nemo")
I didn't want you to just leave pissed off like that for a couple of reasons: 1.Now I want to find out more and 2. I have this custom built car that I need your input on.
Like I said earlier- don't let them steal any more of your life.
1:15 am!"The FARC is part of the history of Colombia and a historical phenomenon", (President Pastrana) says, "and they must be treated as Colombians". ... They come and ask for bread [aid from Washington], and you give them stones.
Robert White is a former American ambassador to Paraguay and El Salvador, and former No. 2 man with the U.S. Embassy in Bogota, is president of the Centre for International Policy in Washington D.C.
Robert White
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You're a good man, Sabro. I've found that although I was pretty much always consciously out of agreement, and in my mind, while I was there, I had a place to retreat in- that was only mine, and that I never revealed. Kept my sanity that way, somehow, I guess.
But, I still find, my own words can be poison. Is that leftover from CEDU?
And I find that I think in absolutes. Did I learn that there, too? And I struggle to unlearn it.
I reflect, also- and often. Always doing moral inventories- but I didn't learn that there. CEDU's inventories were always delusional and manipulated and contrived. Always shaped to fit into what "they" thought you should think or feel about who you were.
(NO, I'm not in any kind of 12 step group and never would be- its just not for me.)
Now, I believe in giving someone enough rope...to build a bridge- or hang themself. And giving a man the dignity to make his own mistakes.
Maybe, I'm more pessimistic then you, and my thinking is maybe more dialectic. Rather than trying to make CEDU correct, I'd rather see the idea behind it destroyed.
Poor Luke- I remember him well.
As far as Russ goes- I've done what I can. I've reported it to the authorities and they claimed to be investigating it. I tried to round up support on this site, but most people here are only out to find help for THEMSELVES, and that became obvious to me, so I haven't been here much. I didn't come here to get help, I came here to help. And in doing so, I got more than what I needed, in return.
I remember when Kevin's group foolishly bushwacked to find a shortcut. Poor Sabro had to follow them, hiding in the bushes!
Funny that CEDU was set-up originally for Heroin addicts. I only ever experimented with drugs before going to CEDU, but recieved NO real help or guidance or plan for how to stay off drugs after leaving. With no recovery program at all, I don't completely blame CEDU of course, but after leaving CEDU within 2 1/2 years I was a heroin addict and struggled with it for nearly 8 years. (I've been clean now for over 3 years, so don't worry, but yeah when we corresponded before I was deep into it.)
God, its great to hear that you're the same Sabro.
What kind of car? I'm a machinist and welder, but as far as motors go, I rebuilt my entire motorcyle engine with all new components in a 23 year old bike, (bragging a little, pardon me) but I'm not very good with cars. If you need one off custom parts made from billet, I can help you- I do that all the time.
Take it easy. (You wouldn't believe who my soon to be wife is) P.M. me, and I'll tell you. She's the best girl in the world.[ This Message was edited by: CEDU IS A CULT on 2005-07-30 08:13 ][ This Message was edited by: CEDU IS A CULT on 2005-07-30 08:14 ]
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It was a whole lot easier to believe that the extremes were warranted at Cedu because you kids needed it. The fact that it failed so misserably renders this hogwash. I never, ever thought it was that bad. I thought there were problems that needed to be fixed and some staff that were off the wall. We were always trying to figure out how to make the program better and more effective. But the core was rotten.
I kinda believe that most of the staff- even the most abusive, came there for the right reasons and tried to do good for kids- but for most, they had no experience, education, or training, and under the Mel system- they accepted what was going on as therapy. (I have no background in therapy either- so a lot of time i just sat there incredulously thinking "what is this?") They must have started out as decent caring humans. But I guess if they tried to maintain that they would have been forced to quit or have been fired. But a fewm they stayed on thinking they might help a kid through this...
Power, control, and manipulation became the goals of any employee who aspired to succeed at Cedu. They were rank amatuers- with no business dispensing this funky brand of "healing." If you didn't toe the line as staff, you were subjected to many of the same kind of games the kids faced- along with punitive employer practices like messing with your work duties, hours and even pay. Like the kids we were often told who we could talk to and what we should say. You had to go through whomever was running a kid's "table" or work assignment. (Tim was great at smiling and acting shocked.)
I took a paycut to work there and was strung along with promise after promise. I enjoyed working with the kids- got no problem with the physical labor thing, or the cleanliness thing, not with the classes, the outdoor ed program, or sports- all that was fun. (And I got out of most raps when we were working on the accreditation and all raps and propheets during my last few months.)
I remember my first rap with Jill. Afterwards she tried to debrief it in some gentle manner: "Do you have a problem yelling?" I told her, no- if I have something to yell about. "what about cussing?" I told her in general I don't cuss. "You really can't work here if you don't cuss." Okay, I said. "Well..." she looked at me. Long pause- "Okay, Fuck you."I told her. She smiled and gave me a hug.
Early on, I came in early and found a chair and a book to read. Rudy pulled me into his office and hit the roof. Screaming, red-faced...and I'm thinking I might need to use some martial arts on him... and then he calms and acts loving and caring.
Luke had it much worse than I did. Originally, Rudy had challenge and then Bill- both were a lot easier to work with than Guy. He made Luke's life hell for not being a "believer." I think the day after I gave notice, they fired him. No warning, no probation, no reason. (You're not a team player.)
These schools prey upon the desperation of parents that are at the end of whatever rope they have. Although Cedu is gone- the nightmare lives on in dozens of copycats because the market is there.
The car: My son Justin drives it when it runs. A Tweed Enterprise Hum-lite hummer replica. Fiberglass and aluminum body on a welded steel frame- Rear engine. I just pulled the Rx7 engine out and dropped a VW engine in so the smog referee will exempt it. Google "humlite" and I think the Knott's Berry Farm pics will come up....the people have a right to keep and bear arms.
-- Patrick Henry and George Mason Debates
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To Sabro---no question that a lot of people hate CEDU--but what about all the other people who attended and describe a completely different experience---who don't even post here or relate to the stories here
Do you believe they are all sheep and brainwashed-- cuz if that's the case some of them are doing an awfully good job of acting like they're pretty normal people
Isn't it just possible that these programs worked well for some people and not for others---I'm not saying I know the answer but just that it's worth asking
Since you had a lot of hands-on time in one of the CEDU school: what do you think---why do many grads even have fond memories of their time there
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If they did have a good experience they probably won't post here!
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Look, some of the pro CEDU grads in my view, brought the whole CEDU cultic mindset and were scared straight. This does not mean that CEDU's therapeutic practices were ethical. Trenchant verbal abuse, repeated sexual humiliaition, isolation,manipulation, coersion, lies, deprivation, and coerced confessions (true and FALSE)is not EVER acceptable as a means to rehab kids. And these were not isolated practices, but systemic.
Like Sabro indicated, the staff itself were infected by this whole CEDU cultic experience. And to top it off, I distinctly remember that CEDU was not just a place for kids to work through their shit. It was a place where fucked up adults worked through their shit, grabbing on to some dialectic ideology and bludgeoning people with it.
Why should 13-17 year old kids have to sit in a room and listen to their so called staff therapists talk about their own backgrounds as gang rapers, molesters, or perverts? In graphic detail no less. How are 13 year old girls who have been raped or molested supposed to feel safe?
And why do we have to detail graphically our masturbation histories to adults and be shamed and manipulated for something normal and PRIVATE? I mean did you hang out with your guidance counselors in high school and give them your own personal history of jacking off?
Come on! This is not therapy!
I know of kids who were forced to say they had sex when they were virgins, had an eating disorder when they had a urinary problem, and were drug addicts when they never took a puff. And then they had to be bombarded with this story for 2 years. By the end of two years, you thought, thank God CEDU saved me from being an anorexic slut with a drug problem!
Some kids at CEDU were essentially spoiled brats that their overpriveleged families just didn't have time for... Some kids at CEDU were good people suffering from depression, anxiety disorder, ADD, or plain old low self esteem. CEDU was NOT equipped to deal with those issues either.
Lots of kids at CEDU needed help. But you aren't gonna get help at a place that is essentially a group home with no real individualized therapeutic plan based on sound practices. You are not gonna get help from a place whose main tool is one-size-fits-all humiliation therapy.
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Like I said anyone who thought they had a good experience wouldn't post here.
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I was at Cedu-RS in the late 80's to early 90's at the same time as Johnny Propheet and some of the others on here. I'm sorry I found this so late. I think Sabro was a good man and he's just awakening like I am to how tragically scarred Cedu left some people. Its not in everyone's nature to have the courage to stand up so boldy and rebel. Especially when you're in such a surreal setting and its hard to piece together what's going on and get out of your own survival mode to help others.
I was a "Look Good" student. I hit the ground running with that mentality after being in a fucked up psych hospital in the 80's. (It also served me well going thru US Army boot camp when it was still scary before it became pussified) I lament it about myself that I didn't stand up for my friends that were the typical peer group scapegoats for any shit that happened. We can't change that past, all we can do is alert people to the future hell if they go down that path of so-called treatment/salvation. Sabro and Luke tried the best they knew how at the time. :cry:
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Sabro...I remember you but I doubt you will remember me. I was on my way out and you had just been there for a few months at the time.
I just found this site and it's Friday evening. I need to go and get ready to take my wonderfull fiancee out tonight or she will kill me. I have been glued to this site all week and do not have the time to say everything I want to.
I respect your words and what you did. I spent years and years supressing what happened to me. It is crazy to think it has resurfaced 15 years later. I was made to be an example and was fucked with at that institution for 2 years. I tried SOOO hard to get out. I hated Carl Janowitz and knew he was a sick fuck. He made his goal to fuck with me back and called me his "little project'" I was condemned to raps with him all the time.
I was never the same after I left Cedu. People who knew me before I went in and have often told me that when I came out I was almost seemingly "damaged." I struggled with my confidence after Cedu and still do sometimes. Cedu ingrained in me that I could never be a leader. They would never give me leadership opportunitites or allow me to be on committees. It has proved to follow me in life. I manage employees now and still question my leadership. I worry that I am not a good manager and ALL of that stems back to not even be allowed to run Saturday chores. I have a picture of Tyler Mars and your little son. Perhaps I will post it on my flickr site.
Have you seen? http://www.flickr.com/photos/cedu/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cedu/)
You are actually on there already.
I really don't know what to do at this point...this past week has stirred up more demons then I have ever known.
When the guy who believes in ghosts finally makes contact with a ghost - where does he go from there? Do you go on making contact with ghosts are do you say "See I knew there were ghosts."
I knew Cedu had fucked me up on many levels and I always wondered if there was some sort of support group. I found it and have spent lots of time on here. I could spend years trying to fight these demons. For now...I must hope that time continues to heal this and be like "see I knew that place was fucked up."
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Sabro...I remember you but I doubt you will remember me. I was on my way out and you had just been there for a few months at the time.
I just found this site and it's Friday evening. I need to go and get ready to take my wonderfull fiancee out tonight or she will kill me. I have been glued to this site all week and do not have the time to say everything I want to.
I respect your words and what you did. I spent years and years supressing what happened to me. It is crazy to think it has resurfaced 15 years later. I was made to be an example and was fucked with and mentally tortured at that institution for 2 years. I tried SOOO hard to get out. I hated Carl Janowitz and knew he was a sick fuck. He made his goal to fuck with me back and called me his "little project'" I was condemned to raps with him all the time.
I was never the same after I left Cedu. People who knew me before I went in have often told me that when I came out I was almost seemingly "damaged." I struggled with my confidence after Cedu and still do sometimes. Cedu ingrained in me that I could never be a leader. They would never give me leadership opportunitites or allow me to be on committees. It has proved to follow me in life. I manage employees now and still question my leadership. I worry that I am not a good manager and ALL of that stems back to not even be allowed to run Saturday chores. I have a picture of Tyler Mars and your little son. Perhaps I will post it on my flickr site.
Have you seen? http://www.flickr.com/photos/cedu/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cedu/)
You are actually on there already.
I really don't know what to do at this point...this past week has stirred up more demons then I have ever known.
When the guy who believes in ghosts finally makes contact with a ghost - where does he go from there? Do you go on making contact with ghosts or do you say "See I knew there were ghosts."
I knew Cedu had fucked me up on many levels and I always wondered if there was some sort of support group. I found it and have spent lots of time on here. I could spend years trying to fight these demons. For now...I must hope that time continues to heal this and be like "see I knew that place was fucked up."
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I was from your time and had the same experience as you when you found Fornits. Do you have e-mail or can you set up a profile for PM. I'd love to touch base!
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awww Johnny ur killin me...Im dyin to know who you were...we can share our hate for the sick and twisted perv that is carl janowitz...man he is a sick fuck! Contacts me after Cedu RS via the classmates site and sends me nasty emails about how he wanted to fuck me and some of my peers and gals in the lower peer group. sick fuck! Also sent me nasty emails about what he wanted to do to me then(around 1999-2000 when he contacted me).
The only people I really really really liked were Tim Brace, Kathy and her hubby Jon...Prins I believe thier last name is, Donna Dilman(for teaching me outdoors stuff) and Bruce Boslow(I think thats his last name)...there was also a Delia(cant remember last name....but she drove a Jeep) lol....and Donna's dog BO! BO was the shit! hahaha Big black lab...anyone remember any of these peeps and whats ur take on them? Other than that I pretty mch hated that place.
Going to the movies...be back tomorrow.
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Delia was nice but totally drank the cool aid. I remember her eviscerating for laughing with a few guys. That little bit of fliration was just Cedu-sinful. I remember when her daughter visited CEDU--a civilian--with long hair, a short skirt, and make up, and girls ganged up on Delia about allowing her there like that while we had to suffer from desexualization, and the make-under of the century. I thought it was ridiculous they yelled at Delia for having a normal daughter--but I could also understand the resentment.
Bruce was really sweet. But I think he was there to find a niche and fix his own broken psyche. Nonethelss, it was nice to have someone caring, low key, and un-dramatic. Wish more of them were like the last descriptive.
Carl came right after I split. Anyone know what happened to Wanda? What about Alex's wife Julie? She was treated like shit there for basically being a nice person. God! I remember one rap where girls and staff ganged up on her for looking too cute. But, people like her (not a fucking melodramatic harpy) were a lifesaver for me. I always wondered how A and J lasted as she was under mega pressure to conform to CEDU ways, and he wasn't exactly supportive.
Were you there for Jim Johnson or Lori Saunders? Hated them. If they hadn't lied to me and about me, perhaps I wouldn't, but I have ZERO respect for them. Rudy was nice to me, not so much to others. Hated Guy and Dean and loved that I interacted with them very, very little.
Wish I knew more about my peer group--I split before I graduated. They graduated in June or Dec of 89, I believe. (Ali Dean, Chris Robinson, Alana, Gabby, Tory, Shannon M, Pablo, Kim, Kate, John, Jay Glickman, Monique, Joy, etc.)
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Delia was nice but totally drank the cool aid. I remember her eviscerating for laughing with a few guys. That little bit of fliration was just Cedu-sinful. I remember when her daughter visited CEDU--a civilian--with long hair, a short skirt, and make up, and girls ganged up on Delia about allowing her there like that while we had to suffer from desexualization, and the make-under of the century. I thought it was ridiculous they yelled at Delia for having a normal daughter--but I could also understand the resentment.
Bruce was really sweet. But I think he was there to find a niche and fix his own broken psyche. Nonethelss, it was nice to have someone caring, low key, and un-dramatic. Wish more of them were like the last descriptive.
Carl came right after I split. Anyone know what happened to Wanda? What about Alex's wife Julie? She was treated like shit there for basically being a nice person. God! I remember one rap where girls and staff ganged up on her for looking too cute. But, people like her (not a fucking melodramatic harpy) were a lifesaver for me. I always wondered how A and J lasted as she was under mega pressure to conform to CEDU ways, and he wasn't exactly supportive.
Were you there for Jim Johnson or Lori Saunders? Hated them. If they hadn't lied to me and about me, perhaps I wouldn't, but I have ZERO respect for them. Rudy was nice to me, not so much to others. Hated Guy and Dean and loved that I interacted with them very, very little.
Wish I knew more about my peer group--I split before I graduated. They graduated in June or Dec of 89, I believe. (Ali Dean, Chris Robinson, Alana, Gabby, Tory, Shannon M, Pablo, Kim, Kate, John, Jay Glickman, Monique, Joy, etc.)
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It's been well over a year since I posted here last. For those of you who know me, I'm no lover of Cedu, that's for sure. I stopped posting at this site after we won the good fight and saw Cedu shut down permanently. I still come back to this site from time to time to check my messages. I came here yesterday, looked at a few threads, and it seems that this site is buzzing with activity as of late. The new posters coming here all seem to be from my era at Cedu RS. After reading your post Johnny, I just had to write again.
Johnny Propheet, I was at Cedu with you and I know exactly who you are. I know what those criminal bastards did to you, and they fucked with you like no other. You spent sooo many years at that shithole, and for the life of me, I can't figure out how you got through it and managed to hold onto your sanity, but god bless you for doing so.
I wasn't at Cedu anywhere near as long as you were, and I didn't wait around to graduate, that's for sure, but I was certainly traumatized by the experience. Like you, I did my best to forget about the Cedu Cult, and it worked for 12 years. About three years ago I was bored and fucking around on google. I typed the words "Cedu hurts kids" and did a search. Fornits was the first site that popped up, and after reading through a few threads all the bad memories of abuse and the anger I had at those monsters came flooding back to me. I couldn't stop thinking about it, much like you can't now.
My advice to you is this: now that the cork is off of the bottle, there's no going back. Whatever you're feeling about the Cedu Cult and the criminals who hurt you there, you have to come here and say it, and you have to keep coming back here and saying it, until you've said everything. Don't hold anything back. In my experience, that's how you're going to beat those demons that are plaguing you, trust me I know. It took me over 360 posts to feel better, and a year plus after I stopped posting, here I am again with more to say. That's how you're going to beat those abusive fuckers who hurt you like Rudy & Jill Bentz , Guy Bonnano, Russ Decker, Carl Janowitz, Patrick Stambuski and the rest of them, by calling them out for what they are.
Johnny if you want to talk, PM me anytime. I'll tell you exactly who I am, and I'm sure that you will remember me. Good luck to you.
Sabro...I remember you but I doubt you will remember me. I was on my way out and you had just been there for a few months at the time.
I just found this site and it's Friday evening. I need to go and get ready to take my wonderfull fiancee out tonight or she will kill me. I have been glued to this site all week and do not have the time to say everything I want to.
I respect your words and what you did. I spent years and years supressing what happened to me. It is crazy to think it has resurfaced 15 years later. I was made to be an example and was fucked with and mentally tortured at that institution for 2 years. I tried SOOO hard to get out. I hated Carl Janowitz and knew he was a sick fuck. He made his goal to fuck with me back and called me his "little project'" I was condemned to raps with him all the time.
I was never the same after I left Cedu. People who knew me before I went in have often told me that when I came out I was almost seemingly "damaged." I struggled with my confidence after Cedu and still do sometimes. Cedu ingrained in me that I could never be a leader. They would never give me leadership opportunitites or allow me to be on committees. It has proved to follow me in life. I manage employees now and still question my leadership. I worry that I am not a good manager and ALL of that stems back to not even be allowed to run Saturday chores. I have a picture of Tyler Mars and your little son. Perhaps I will post it on my flickr site.
Have you seen? http://www.flickr.com/photos/cedu/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cedu/)
You are actually on there already.
I really don't know what to do at this point...this past week has stirred up more demons then I have ever known.
When the guy who believes in ghosts finally makes contact with a ghost - where does he go from there? Do you go on making contact with ghosts or do you say "See I knew there were ghosts."
I knew Cedu had fucked me up on many levels and I always wondered if there was some sort of support group. I found it and have spent lots of time on here. I could spend years trying to fight these demons. For now...I must hope that time continues to heal this and be like "see I knew that place was fucked up."
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Whoa, what a trip.....haven't posted around here in ages myself, funny to see Serb back from a hiatus too. I got a little disenchanted by the fact that 5% of the people posting actually put a little thought into their words without just ripping on everyone. I suppose they had to feel powerful somewhere though.
Anyways, all I really wanted to say is that I'm not sure it's safe to say CEDU is gone permanently. Running Springs is, but the offspring have been revived up in Aryan country and apparently are back as strong as ever under UHS. Too bad.
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Cool seeing ya'll back around here. Not so sure I'm comfortable w/ the idea of Fornits as therapy. But, if you find it helpful to vent, why then by all means do so.
If anybody wants to keep on the the blow by blow or 'where are they now' check out the HLA and Cascade forums. That's where Rudy Bentz and that dude Saner landed up. I understand HLA is about to shut down too now, but the rats who jump ship always just find another ship.
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If you are talking about always having to defend that you are not a "crybaby" ( its interesting to be demeaned for childishness with the most childish accusation possible)
I know what you mean
Also, i find reading about this stuff unbeleivabley painful. But as a survivor when you discuss what happened you are engaging in an act of heroism- for me personally anyway. It s a duty to discuss what happened. As painful as it may be to engage over what you experienced there needs to be an "archive" of truth about this torture-cult. So many children were destroyed there and when you speak for them you bring them some small measure of justice to their ruined souls.
The truth needs to be available. You dont know, what you say might be the catalyst for another survivor to file criminal or cival charges and then the "justice" wont only be abstract.
Lets put child torturers behing bars.....
thanks for posting
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Hola Serb! Don't write post much here but after seeing those pics from Johnny and a few people I recognized, it brought back some memories.
Hope all is well! Shan
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i used to have good thoughts about RMA and wondered why I had nightmares about the place for almost 20 years. It was only after I found this site that I started to remember the emotional torture that I endured there.
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its too painful for me to think about to much ..I lost a child to that place..my best freind. I litterally cannot read the posts sometimes they cause me so much pain
But thankyou to all those who do post. You honour, you fight for the dead each time you do.
what do you think of me starting a seperate forum just for cedu survivors?
I could get a link to it put up on google sponsered link section.. ilike the idea of getting all survivor testimny together. FInding out how many kids ultimately ended up dead or insane becuse of the abuse they endured. From what Iunderstand it is very high. Everyone I know is either dead or in jail..and i know the kids before hand so i know they were damaged BY CEDU not what came before...
would anyone like to talk to me about this...?
also about suing the monsters still around?
I understand some of them are out tortuing kids at new cults..Steven Laird, some people at Benchmark (thanks Psy for all your work) that fellow Lon Woodbury....I m about ready to go postal on those fellows..and i mean that in the legal sense. I want them to be brought to justice and I now have the funds to go about doing so...I dont want to say too much ..remember the monsters read this forum...but ........
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Blown Away the Idaho Way says he's trying to get back to a computer so he can lend guidance to all us hairless monkeys.
Dance, Monkeys, Dance!
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its too painful for me to think about to much ..I lost a child to that place..my best freind. I litterally cannot read the posts sometimes they cause me so much pain
But thankyou to all those who do post. You honour, you fight for the dead each time you do.
what do you think of me starting a seperate forum just for cedu survivors?
I could get a link to it put up on google sponsered link section.. ilike the idea of getting all survivor testimny together. FInding out how many kids ultimately ended up dead or insane becuse of the abuse they endured. From what Iunderstand it is very high. Everyone I know is either dead or in jail..and i know the kids before hand so i know they were damaged BY CEDU not what came before...
would anyone like to talk to me about this...?
also about suing the monsters still around?
I understand some of them are out tortuing kids at new cults..Steven Laird, some people at Benchmark (thanks Psy for all your work) that fellow Lon Woodbury....I m about ready to go postal on those fellows..and i mean that in the legal sense. I want them to be brought to justice and I now have the funds to go about doing so...I dont want to say too much ..remember the monsters read this forum...but ........
I tried to put a forum for discussion on my flickr site. All you need to do is log in but no one seems to be using it.
As for what we can do for the monsters...I would like to see some sort of documentary made. I would be more then happy to provide my pictures and everything else I have for reseach.
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I was from your time and had the same experience as you when you found Fornits. Do you have e-mail or can you set up a profile for PM. I'd love to touch base!
You can email me at [email protected]
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I was from your time and had the same experience as you when you found Fornits. Do you have e-mail or can you set up a profile for PM. I'd love to touch base!
You can email me at [email protected]
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Welcome, Guest, Hi, thanks for speaking up!
I'm very much intrigued by what you're telling us here. First thought is that if there's a need for a new forum, I think it would have to be for interested outsiders. If anything, these forums are so heavy w/ firsthand survivors that people are often reluctant to get involved because they feel out of place. I'd love to do something about that if I can. The people who's attention we need to capture are those who don't know yet that they have a vested interest in this.
What I'd really like to do is find a way to get our old teachers and preachers and neighbors to comment on their perspective. I think a conversation between, say, Lon Woodburry and my old science teacher would be mutually enlightening and really interesting.
My old teacher hated the program and couldn't understand how anyone couldn't see it was Satanic. But he was in the minority at the time. I don't think that would be the case today if we could just get all the unwitting collaborators to start talking to each other and to us about it.
But, right on the heels of that, if you're pursuing legal action, it's best to keep as much as you can close to the vest, so I don't even know if you'd want to give much detail about your history w/ these fuckers or your relation to your lost friend.
The Third Estate is one potent means of communication. Then there's the Fourth and now Fifth
its too painful for me to think about to much ..I lost a child to that place..my best freind. I litterally cannot read the posts sometimes they cause me so much pain
But thankyou to all those who do post. You honour, you fight for the dead each time you do.
what do you think of me starting a seperate forum just for cedu survivors?
I could get a link to it put up on google sponsered link section.. ilike the idea of getting all survivor testimny together. FInding out how many kids ultimately ended up dead or insane becuse of the abuse they endured. From what Iunderstand it is very high. Everyone I know is either dead or in jail..and i know the kids before hand so i know they were damaged BY CEDU not what came before...
would anyone like to talk to me about this...?
also about suing the monsters still around?
I understand some of them are out tortuing kids at new cults..Steven Laird, some people at Benchmark (thanks Psy for all your work) that fellow Lon Woodbury....I m about ready to go postal on those fellows..and i mean that in the legal sense. I want them to be brought to justice and I now have the funds to go about doing so...I dont want to say too much ..remember the monsters read this forum...but ........
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The quickest way to get the most momentum of support would be to get a show like 20/20 or Dateline to put the spotlight on the revolving staff of the schools and how they keep spawning more torture centers. Much as people hate these milquetoast expose shows, they can be a valuable tool to that end. They and their viewers eat that shit up. Then it sticks in the back of the mind of any potential jurors in a legal case, whether they're told to ignore the media coverage or not, they can't help but refer back to it.
The problem is that most of the time those shows have put a positive spin on the teen help industry and boot camps, etc. They have to be shown the ugly underbelly.
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The quickest way to get the most momentum of support would be to get a show like 20/20 or Dateline to put the spotlight on the revolving staff of the schools and how they keep spawning more torture centers. Much as people hate these milquetoast expose shows, they can be a valuable tool to that end. They and their viewers eat that shit up. Then it sticks in the back of the mind of any potential jurors in a legal case, whether they're told to ignore the media coverage or not, they can't help but refer back to it.
The problem is that most of the time those shows have put a positive spin on the teen help industry and boot camps, etc. They have to be shown the ugly underbelly.
That was pretty much my take 20 odd years ago when 60 Minutes did a couple of segments on Straight. First there was the gushing photo op when Nancy Regan attended an open meeting at Straight, St. Pete. Then there was a follow up, which was almost as bad. I know one of the girls interviewed. Actually, I know a couple of them. But the one insists she kept trying to tell about the kid that was bound and gagged in a back room during that visit. They simply wouldn't let that air. Strictly softball material.
The trouble with mainstream media is that it's extremely expensive and incredibly potent for political use. The real wheels behind this industry have invested shrewdly in public policy over the years. Now, which one or dozen of them do you think hasn't got some strange bedfellows in one branch or the other of the Dempublican party? I think it would be interesting as hell of they'd do a serious investigation into, say, all of Dr. Phil's influences and affiliations. That would lead into CEDU and right back around to the current state of things w/ HLA, Cascade, NATSAP et al. But it would also tread right up on the one good question that solves almost any dilema; who's fuckin who and where'd the money go? What with another high stakes election season upon us, it probably won't happen with any real impact in mainstream media.
Hell, they really ought to look into the new governor of Florida, too, and his high school equivalent activities and affiliations. But that probably won't happen either. Too many of the elite with too much riding on keeping his secrets.
But even a snow-ball news segment aired nationally can generate interest and focus for rampant talking out in group. We really gotta get crackin on an rss feed or dozen, eh?
The truth needs to be available. You dont know, what you say might be the catalyst for another survivor to file criminal or cival charges and then the "justice" wont only be abstract.
Or it could just give somebody much needed perspective and prompt them to sort their own head out a little and do whatever they do better and happier. As I get older and see how thing pan out over a couple of generations, it's more and more obvious how important high school years really are. I'm always the wall flower whenever people start talking about their high school years. I was in the Twilight Zone at that time. Or was it the other way around? Because they spent those years in a world where the tv delivers all the important news and does so fairly reliably and something like the Program could not possibly exist in 21st Century America, right chillins?
If you're the only one who doesn't lose their head in a crisis, maybe you just don't get the full scope of things, ya know? I find it a comfort to have friends like us who live in the same kind of world I do and so understand what it's like.
::kiss::
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Alot of people are thinking I was John Brogan.
He was there for like 3 years I think. I would be curious as to know how he is. He was fucked with so bad....
John was actually one of the guys I could relate to.
Unlike John, I always fought back and it would always come to bite me in the ass.
I try and tell people when I am talking about a rap, how HORRIBLE it was when a room of 15 people were literally fighting to get across the room so they could yell at you.
The think that made me SICK was tat I was an easy target and they were dirty as fuck. So by coming down on me, they could "look good" and protect themselves. They would get all the credit and all the priviledges and I would go do their fucking dishes that night.
I get sooo pissed just thinking about it. Going through my Vison and Discovery journals. I had a section/tab called raps. It hurt reading through that shit.
Mon rap - yelled at
wed rap - yelled at first
Fri rap - was told I am not liked and people don't like hanging out with me.
It's been well over a year since I posted here last. For those of you who know me, I'm no lover of Cedu, that's for sure. I stopped posting at this site after we won the good fight and saw Cedu shut down permanently. I still come back to this site from time to time to check my messages. I came here yesterday, looked at a few threads, and it seems that this site is buzzing with activity as of late. The new posters coming here all seem to be from my era at Cedu RS. After reading your post Johnny, I just had to write again.
Johnny Propheet, I was at Cedu with you and I know exactly who you are. I know what those criminal bastards did to you, and they fucked with you like no other. You spent sooo many years at that shithole, and for the life of me, I can't figure out how you got through it and managed to hold onto your sanity, but god bless you for doing so.
I wasn't at Cedu anywhere near as long as you were, and I didn't wait around to graduate, that's for sure, but I was certainly traumatized by the experience. Like you, I did my best to forget about the Cedu Cult, and it worked for 12 years. About three years ago I was bored and fucking around on google. I typed the words "Cedu hurts kids" and did a search. Fornits was the first site that popped up, and after reading through a few threads all the bad memories of abuse and the anger I had at those monsters came flooding back to me. I couldn't stop thinking about it, much like you can't now.
My advice to you is this: now that the cork is off of the bottle, there's no going back. Whatever you're feeling about the Cedu Cult and the criminals who hurt you there, you have to come here and say it, and you have to keep coming back here and saying it, until you've said everything. Don't hold anything back. In my experience, that's how you're going to beat those demons that are plaguing you, trust me I know. It took me over 360 posts to feel better, and a year plus after I stopped posting, here I am again with more to say. That's how you're going to beat those abusive fuckers who hurt you like Rudy & Jill Bentz , Guy Bonnano, Russ Decker, Carl Janowitz, Patrick Stambuski and the rest of them, by calling them out for what they are.
Johnny if you want to talk, PM me anytime. I'll tell you exactly who I am, and I'm sure that you will remember me. Good luck to you.
Sabro...I remember you but I doubt you will remember me. I was on my way out and you had just been there for a few months at the time.
I just found this site and it's Friday evening. I need to go and get ready to take my wonderfull fiancee out tonight or she will kill me. I have been glued to this site all week and do not have the time to say everything I want to.
I respect your words and what you did. I spent years and years supressing what happened to me. It is crazy to think it has resurfaced 15 years later. I was made to be an example and was fucked with and mentally tortured at that institution for 2 years. I tried SOOO hard to get out. I hated Carl Janowitz and knew he was a sick fuck. He made his goal to fuck with me back and called me his "little project'" I was condemned to raps with him all the time.
I was never the same after I left Cedu. People who knew me before I went in have often told me that when I came out I was almost seemingly "damaged." I struggled with my confidence after Cedu and still do sometimes. Cedu ingrained in me that I could never be a leader. They would never give me leadership opportunitites or allow me to be on committees. It has proved to follow me in life. I manage employees now and still question my leadership. I worry that I am not a good manager and ALL of that stems back to not even be allowed to run Saturday chores. I have a picture of Tyler Mars and your little son. Perhaps I will post it on my flickr site.
Have you seen? http://www.flickr.com/photos/cedu/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cedu/)
You are actually on there already.
I really don't know what to do at this point...this past week has stirred up more demons then I have ever known.
When the guy who believes in ghosts finally makes contact with a ghost - where does he go from there? Do you go on making contact with ghosts or do you say "See I knew there were ghosts."
I knew Cedu had fucked me up on many levels and I always wondered if there was some sort of support group. I found it and have spent lots of time on here. I could spend years trying to fight these demons. For now...I must hope that time continues to heal this and be like "see I knew that place was fucked up."
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its too painful for me to think about to much ..I lost a child to that place..my best freind. I litterally cannot read the posts sometimes they cause me so much pain
But thankyou to all those who do post. You honour, you fight for the dead each time you do.
what do you think of me starting a seperate forum just for cedu survivors?
I could get a link to it put up on google sponsered link section.. ilike the idea of getting all survivor testimny together. FInding out how many kids ultimately ended up dead or insane becuse of the abuse they endured. From what Iunderstand it is very high. Everyone I know is either dead or in jail..and i know the kids before hand so i know they were damaged BY CEDU not what came before...
would anyone like to talk to me about this...?
also about suing the monsters still around?
I understand some of them are out tortuing kids at new cults..Steven Laird, some people at Benchmark (thanks Psy for all your work) that fellow Lon Woodbury....I m about ready to go postal on those fellows..and i mean that in the legal sense. I want them to be brought to justice and I now have the funds to go about doing so...I dont want to say too much ..remember the monsters read this forum...but ........
I am interested that you mentioned Steve Laird. I would love to see that bastard go down in flames. LIke everyone else here I have a story and would be willing to share it if I could be sure it would have an effect. It has been bothering me for years so whatever statute of limitations applies is already up but there must be something I can do to get some justice. Of course, like you said, the monsters read here and you or I may be one of them so I am a bit leery.
The mainstream media sucks as we all know but we may be able to start with non-mainstream (heck even the National Inquirerer has scooped the MM). Pacifica Radio, Democracy Now, Salon.com etc.
One powerful thing you all have going for you is that there are a LOT of you. Whole generations whose alma mater is one of these institutional gulags. There is power in numbers and in uniting to tell the collective story.
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I can't think of any other John who was at Cedu from 1987-1991,
but if I did mistake your identity, then please accept my apologies.
My advice still stands though, and I'm sure that we knew each other.
Again, good luck to you.
Alot of people are thinking I was John Brogan.
He was there for like 3 years I think. I would be curious as to know how he is. He was fucked with so bad....
John was actually one of the guys I could relate to.
Unlike John, I always fought back and it would always come to bite me in the ass.
I try and tell people when I am talking about a rap, how HORRIBLE it was when a room of 15 people were literally fighting to get across the room so they could yell at you.
The think that made me SICK was tat I was an easy target and they were dirty as fuck. So by coming down on me, they could "look good" and protect themselves. They would get all the credit and all the priviledges and I would go do their fucking dishes that night.
I get sooo pissed just thinking about it. Going through my Vison and Discovery journals. I had a section/tab called raps. It hurt reading through that shit.
Mon rap - yelled at
wed rap - yelled at first
Fri rap - was told I am not liked and people don't like hanging out with me.
It's been well over a year since I posted here last. For those of you who know me, I'm no lover of Cedu, that's for sure. I stopped posting at this site after we won the good fight and saw Cedu shut down permanently. I still come back to this site from time to time to check my messages. I came here yesterday, looked at a few threads, and it seems that this site is buzzing with activity as of late. The new posters coming here all seem to be from my era at Cedu RS. After reading your post Johnny, I just had to write again.
Johnny Propheet, I was at Cedu with you and I know exactly who you are. I know what those criminal bastards did to you, and they fucked with you like no other. You spent sooo many years at that shithole, and for the life of me, I can't figure out how you got through it and managed to hold onto your sanity, but god bless you for doing so.
I wasn't at Cedu anywhere near as long as you were, and I didn't wait around to graduate, that's for sure, but I was certainly traumatized by the experience. Like you, I did my best to forget about the Cedu Cult, and it worked for 12 years. About three years ago I was bored and fucking around on google. I typed the words "Cedu hurts kids" and did a search. Fornits was the first site that popped up, and after reading through a few threads all the bad memories of abuse and the anger I had at those monsters came flooding back to me. I couldn't stop thinking about it, much like you can't now.
My advice to you is this: now that the cork is off of the bottle, there's no going back. Whatever you're feeling about the Cedu Cult and the criminals who hurt you there, you have to come here and say it, and you have to keep coming back here and saying it, until you've said everything. Don't hold anything back. In my experience, that's how you're going to beat those demons that are plaguing you, trust me I know. It took me over 360 posts to feel better, and a year plus after I stopped posting, here I am again with more to say. That's how you're going to beat those abusive fuckers who hurt you like Rudy & Jill Bentz , Guy Bonnano, Russ Decker, Carl Janowitz, Patrick Stambuski and the rest of them, by calling them out for what they are.
Johnny if you want to talk, PM me anytime. I'll tell you exactly who I am, and I'm sure that you will remember me. Good luck to you.
Sabro...I remember you but I doubt you will remember me. I was on my way out and you had just been there for a few months at the time.
I just found this site and it's Friday evening. I need to go and get ready to take my wonderfull fiancee out tonight or she will kill me. I have been glued to this site all week and do not have the time to say everything I want to.
I respect your words and what you did. I spent years and years supressing what happened to me. It is crazy to think it has resurfaced 15 years later. I was made to be an example and was fucked with and mentally tortured at that institution for 2 years. I tried SOOO hard to get out. I hated Carl Janowitz and knew he was a sick fuck. He made his goal to fuck with me back and called me his "little project'" I was condemned to raps with him all the time.
I was never the same after I left Cedu. People who knew me before I went in have often told me that when I came out I was almost seemingly "damaged." I struggled with my confidence after Cedu and still do sometimes. Cedu ingrained in me that I could never be a leader. They would never give me leadership opportunitites or allow me to be on committees. It has proved to follow me in life. I manage employees now and still question my leadership. I worry that I am not a good manager and ALL of that stems back to not even be allowed to run Saturday chores. I have a picture of Tyler Mars and your little son. Perhaps I will post it on my flickr site.
Have you seen? http://www.flickr.com/photos/cedu/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cedu/)
You are actually on there already.
I really don't know what to do at this point...this past week has stirred up more demons then I have ever known.
When the guy who believes in ghosts finally makes contact with a ghost - where does he go from there? Do you go on making contact with ghosts or do you say "See I knew there were ghosts."
I knew Cedu had fucked me up on many levels and I always wondered if there was some sort of support group. I found it and have spent lots of time on here. I could spend years trying to fight these demons. For now...I must hope that time continues to heal this and be like "see I knew that place was fucked up."
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Son of Serbia...
Email me at [email protected]
I am thinking we knew each other as well.
Johnny Propheet is just my Cedu Handle...
I can't think of any other John who was at Cedu from 1987-1991,
but if I did mistake your identity, then please accept my apologies.
My advice still stands though, and I'm sure that we knew each other.
Again, good luck to you.
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I know what you mean
Also, i find reading about this stuff unbeleivabley painful. But as a survivor when you discuss what happened you are engaging in an act of heroism. It s a duty to discuss what happened. As painful as it may be to engage over what you experienced there needs to be an "archive" of truth about this torture-cult. So many children were destroyed there and when you speak for them you bring them some small measure of justice to their ruined souls.
The truth needs to be available. You dont know, what you say might be the catalyst for another survivor to file criminal or cival charges and then the "justice" wont only be abstract.
Lets put child torturers behing bars.....
thanks for posting
Thank you for posting this. I have to say the last few years reliving my experience from Idaho (btw the CEDU school looks much more comfortable and furnished. I viewed the photos and saw one familiar face and with great interest the same EXACT kind of pictures that people took at RMA)
I think it is important to keep tabs and an archive and a timeline for ALL of the CEDU schools AND their clones, and the rotating staff. Follow the money, as well. Because it is important and obvious that business started BOOMING by 1990 and the demand for the kind of "services" that CEDU and SUWS offered became undeniable. Decisions were made and titles doled out and undegreed, unlicensed non- therapists held down their restrictive forts while other schools were forged and revenue wringing plans put into reality. The upkeeping of the "market" and the changing nature of therapy and labeling in the US fostered the kind of growth and atmosphere for experimentation for "therapeutic boarding schools". Presto: You've got schools operating horrifically outside of the borders of the fucking COUNTRY?
Clearly, without some kind of regulation we are up shits creek without the proverbial paddle when it comes to saving adolescents nightmare programs that advertise themselves as club- meds .
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Cool seeing ya'll back around here. Not so sure I'm comfortable w/ the idea of Fornits as therapy. But, if you find it helpful to vent, why then by all means do so.
If anybody wants to keep on the the blow by blow or 'where are they now' check out the HLA and Cascade forums. That's where Rudy Bentz and that dude Saner landed up. I understand HLA is about to shut down too now, but the rats who jump ship always just find another ship.
Nope. Rudy Bentz is a Principal at a Native American School outside of Santa Fe. Appears he left the Waldorf School rather abrubtly. Jill Bentz owns an art gallery in Santa Fe.
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Wow! I know that Jill and Rudy had a thing for Native American art, but that's still a bit of a surprising career choice for him. Here's the website:
http://www.sanjuaned.org/ohkay_owingeh.html (http://www.sanjuaned.org/ohkay_owingeh.html)
No picture, so no way to really confirm it's the same Rudolph Bentz, but...
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Here's Jill's Gallery website. She just goes by Jill Shwaiko and dropped Bentz - I don't know if that's professionally or a split with Rudy. Anyone know?
http://www.indigoartgallery.com (http://www.indigoartgallery.com)
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Anyone care?
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Anyone care?
Seriously, any Non-troll Ceduites out there know?
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I'd rather see her own an art gallery then fuck with kids...
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It was a whole lot easier to believe that the extremes were warranted at Cedu because you kids needed it. The fact that it failed so misserably renders this hogwash. I never, ever thought it was that bad. I thought there were problems that needed to be fixed and some staff that were off the wall. We were always trying to figure out how to make the program better and more effective. But the core was rotten.
I kinda believe that most of the staff- even the most abusive, came there for the right reasons and tried to do good for kids- but for most, they had no experience, education, or training, and under the Mel system- they accepted what was going on as therapy. (I have no background in therapy either- so a lot of time i just sat there incredulously thinking "what is this?") They must have started out as decent caring humans. But I guess if they tried to maintain that they would have been forced to quit or have been fired. But a fewm they stayed on thinking they might help a kid through this...
Power, control, and manipulation became the goals of any employee who aspired to succeed at Cedu. They were rank amatuers- with no business dispensing this funky brand of "healing." If you didn't toe the line as staff, you were subjected to many of the same kind of games the kids faced- along with punitive employer practices like messing with your work duties, hours and even pay. Like the kids we were often told who we could talk to and what we should say. You had to go through whomever was running a kid's "table" or work assignment. (Tim was great at smiling and acting shocked.)
I took a paycut to work there and was strung along with promise after promise. I enjoyed working with the kids- got no problem with the physical labor thing, or the cleanliness thing, not with the classes, the outdoor ed program, or sports- all that was fun. (And I got out of most raps when we were working on the accreditation and all raps and propheets during my last few months.)
I remember my first rap with Jill. Afterwards she tried to debrief it in some gentle manner: "Do you have a problem yelling?" I told her, no- if I have something to yell about. "what about cussing?" I told her in general I don't cuss. "You really can't work here if you don't cuss." Okay, I said. "Well..." she looked at me. Long pause- "Okay, Fuck you."I told her. She smiled and gave me a hug.
Early on, I came in early and found a chair and a book to read. Rudy pulled me into his office and hit the roof. Screaming, red-faced...and I'm thinking I might need to use some martial arts on him... and then he calms and acts loving and caring.
Luke had it much worse than I did. Originally, Rudy had challenge and then Bill- both were a lot easier to work with than Guy. He made Luke's life hell for not being a "believer." I think the day after I gave notice, they fired him. No warning, no probation, no reason. (You're not a team player.)
These schools prey upon the desperation of parents that are at the end of whatever rope they have. Although Cedu is gone- the nightmare lives on in dozens of copycats because the market is there.
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I was at Cedu from April 1993 until 1995 I was in both middle and high school
I graduated from BCA in 96 and I had a hard time after leaving but not in the same way as others...I was pretty young though
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well go on then, tell us more.
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You bring up some key points.
1. Staff mentality was compromised.
Might I add.. they all had to go through the program, too. And experienced the same trauma.
However, they are adults. And as such, have adult responsibilities. One of which is to be accountable for your actions. Your decision making skills as an adult are far different than that of a teenager.
I am not saying that they were capable of making rational choices in the heat of the moment. (Although some did, mainly two of my favorite teachers there.) However, there are staff who have reformed, such as yourself, and there are staff who have chosen not to be, and to cling to their CEDU-based belief system. That is their choice. They are responsible for that.
Having said that, there are staff who are just so fucking damaged, you can't do anything but pity them. Or at least I do, mainly because I tend to wax on the generous side. Everyone talks about how horrible Caroline was, and she was. She was truly sadistic, and probably one of the most hated staff members to ever grace CEDU, with the exception of Rudy. However, I've heard parts of her "story", especially regarding what was done to her when she went to CEDU as a teen. Let's just say that it is no accident that most of her jibes and taunts towards students were based off of shame around sex. And later, she had sex with both male and female students. Seriously, she is the quintessential poster child for how CEDU can completely and wholly fuck up a person's psyche. She had absolutely no understanding of sexual appropriateness and boundaries. Granted, there are also parts of her story that I refuse to believe, because it totally sounds like forced confession material. My point is, people hate her, and rightfully so. I despised her when I was there. There is absolutely no excuse for how many people she has hurt, but at the same time, she is pathetically broken. Big time.
For me, I must take that into consideration before casting judgment.
It will be interesting to find out how the scales weigh for her in the end.
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To Sabro---no question that a lot of people hate CEDU--but what about all the other people who attended and describe a completely different experience---who don't even post here or relate to the stories here
Do you believe they are all sheep and brainwashed-- cuz if that's the case some of them are doing an awfully good job of acting like they're pretty normal people
Isn't it just possible that these programs worked well for some people and not for others---I'm not saying I know the answer but just that it's worth asking
Since you had a lot of hands-on time in one of the CEDU school: what do you think---why do many grads even have fond memories of their time there
Like I said anyone who thought they had a good experience wouldn't post here.
I hear this arguement a lot to be honest, always from anonymous trolls on sites like this.
I keep looking, none of the people I was in with (who Ive communicated with since) fit this discription, and they don't seem to show up on discussion boards either. Its ok though, thier conspicuous absence doesn't actually prove that they don't exist.
Speaking in terms of probability though, if the picture I get from my interactions with other survivors is anywhere near representative of the whole picture there must be one of these "happily ever afters" for every hundred of the rest of us, and to follow your own logic you aren't even one of them.
Can you really make an arguement to support an efficacy that low?