Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Guest on August 06, 2008, 07:15:29 PM
-
hi.
i told my shrink about what happened. his response was nonchalance, and basically "get over it" because it happened almost "one year ago" and I need to forget it.
Is this a normal reaction from shrinks? the right one? what do you think?
-
hi.
i told my shrink about what happened. his response was nonchalance, and basically "get over it" because it happened almost "one year ago" and I need to forget it.
Is this a normal reaction from shrinks? the right one? what do you think?
No, It's not a normal answer. Find a new shrink (or just lose this one and do your own research on the program... that helps a lot of ppl more than any psychologist, IMO).
-
Psy knows all about shrinks, he's on psychiatric medication. Why someone would want to put brain altering chemicals in their body without knowing the full effect is dangerous. Antidepressants have been proven that they don't work. other than placebo effect. For someone who rejects wholesale unnecessary treatment, he sure is quick to embrace psychiatry and all it's "miracles". It's bullshit if you ask me, a medicated person in charge of fornits. definitely not cool.
-
Psy knows all about shrinks, he's on psychiatric medication. Why someone would want to put brain altering chemicals in their body without knowing the full effect is dangerous. Antidepressants have been proven that they don't work. other than placebo effect. For someone who rejects wholesale unnecessary treatment, he sure is quick to embrace psychiatry and all it's "miracles". It's bullshit if you ask me, a medicated person in charge of fornits. definitely not cool.
^^^chaff (http://http://fornits.com/smf/http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=312118#p312118)
-
Hi, LAVY,
Yes, I agree a new therapist is advisable. Here's my advice--just take what you want and leave the rest. I would distinguish here between psychiatrists, who just meet with you for 20 mintues and prescribe meds, versus psychologists who offer (talk) therapy. You want a psychologist. Over the phone before your first meeting, I would specifically ask the person how many clients they have treated who have post-traumatic stress syndrome (PTSD), or who have been dealing with childhood abuse. You want someone with plenty of experience in this area. I would specifically ask if the person has ever referred a child to a residential treatment program; if so, ask the circumstances. If it sounds like they are supporters of tough love for troubled teens, find someone else. A highly respected therapist I spoke with told me that the method of treatment practiced in programs--isolation from family, confrontational "therapy," and unquestioning compliance--are "not treatment methods that are practiced or taught by any credible institution" in the country.
"Get over it" is not therapy, IMO. Trust your own thoughts, experiences, opinions, doubts and perceptions. Your post suggests to me that your concerns are more than something you can easily put behind you, and that you need more help to understand these experiences in your life.
Asking trusted friends and loved ones for a referral may be the best way to go. If you feel comfortable saying here what city you are in, someone here may be able to refer you. Good luck and let us know what happens.
Auntie Em
-
Lavy
How many sessions have you had with this shrink?
What is his/her specialty?
How old is he/she?
Has this shrink been helpful with other issues?
Troll
Did the imperial wizard of your local Klan chapter teach you grammar and critical thinking skills?
-
Good, valid questions, DDF.
-
99% of shrinks are useless because they are in their own little world. psychiatry is a religion, not a science, despite popular opinion. read the DSM-IV and you'll see what i mean. 99% of the "disorders" are not in fact "disorders" but just "orders" that are differenent from the standard order. look back into history and see what psychiatrists/psychologists were doing 50 years ago, it's brutal. how do you think we'll view the present methods 50 years from now? You should get off any meds you're on now too. I quit lexapro after 4 years...believe me, it's just as brutal as any drug. it took me a whole year after stopping it to get back to normal.
IMHO, you're better off taking a psychedelic. psychedelics are brutally honest, they always tell you what you need to hear the most. they are the ultimate shrink, without all the B.S.
-
(http://http://shockme.t2i.info/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/scarybaby.jpg)
(http://http://msp79.photobucket.com/albums/j130/youarenotrede/fat_girl_puking.jpg)
(http://www.sexyfatgirls.net/Images/2007/06/fat-girl-2.jpg)
-
99% of shrinks are useless because they are in their own little world. psychiatry is a religion, not a science, despite popular opinion. read the DSM-IV and you'll see what i mean. 99% of the "disorders" are not in fact "disorders" but just "orders" that are differenent from the standard order. look back into history and see what psychiatrists/psychologists were doing 50 years ago, it's brutal. how do you think we'll view the present methods 50 years from now? You should get off any meds you're on now too. I quit lexapro after 4 years...believe me, it's just as brutal as any drug. it took me a whole year after stopping it to get back to normal.
IMHO, you're better off taking a psychedelic. psychedelics are brutally honest, they always tell you what you need to hear the most. they are the ultimate shrink, without all the B.S.
You need to take them though in the right mental situation. I think they can be guides but if you are not strong enough or aware enough they can just confuse you. I took them and was just overwhelmed by terror and hopelessness. Not so helpful.
-
true, they do confuse some, even most people. once you are fully socialized psychedelics become somewhat more difficult to handle. The trick behind not being confused is proper preparation and letting go. Meaning, you must prepare by being in the right set and setting, along with not being on any other drugs (including prescription drugs). weed may be popular while tripping but is counter-productive in a number of different ways. drinking while tripping will guarantee confusion. letting go means allowing the drug to take control, and letting go of all your preconceptions about reality.
The thing about terror and hopelessness brought on by psychedelics is that is how one learns. easy trips are fun, and sometimes allow breakthroughs, but it's in the bad trips where one learns the most. sure, it can be terrifying. but that is how one learns. Terror usually occurs when one is still holding on to one's preconceived notions, holding on to one's "sober" mentality and trying to "keep it together"...when one lets go, the terror goes too. "keeping it together" is a bad, bad idea, because it's impossible, when tripping. that's why trip sitters are recommended. the hopelessness problem is easily solved: remember that it's a drug, and it will pass. if you are concerned about staying insane forever see below.
The key to psychedelic self-therapy lies after the trip, not during. it's all about how you deal with the trip and incorporate the new found knowledge into reality. [psychedelic induced] insanity is nothing but the inability to apply one's new-found sanity to the insane world.
When you have a bad trip, it is best to try to get through it. It's good to have a few valiums/xanax/ativan on hand in case one panics, but it is not reccomended. When a drug like that is administered, it does not stop the trip, only stops the panic. One will continue to have a bad trip, just not as unpleasant anymore. the worst is that the drugs will end up confusing you even more, and will impede psychic recovery after the trip; you wont be able to apply your new-found sanity because you wont remember how you got that way in the first place.
-
true, they do confuse some, even most people. once you are fully socialized psychedelics become somewhat more difficult to handle. The trick behind not being confused is proper preparation and letting go. Meaning, you must prepare by being in the right set and setting, along with not being on any other drugs (including prescription drugs). weed may be popular while tripping but is counter-productive in a number of different ways. drinking while tripping will guarantee confusion. letting go means allowing the drug to take control, and letting go of all your preconceptions about reality.
The thing about terror and hopelessness brought on by psychedelics is that is how one learns. easy trips are fun, and sometimes allow breakthroughs, but it's in the bad trips where one learns the most. sure, it can be terrifying. but that is how one learns. Terror usually occurs when one is still holding on to one's preconceived notions, holding on to one's "sober" mentality and trying to "keep it together"...when one lets go, the terror goes too. "keeping it together" is a bad, bad idea, because it's impossible, when tripping. that's why trip sitters are recommended. the hopelessness problem is easily solved: remember that it's a drug, and it will pass. if you are concerned about staying insane forever see below.
The key to psychedelic self-therapy lies after the trip, not during. it's all about how you deal with the trip and incorporate the new found knowledge into reality. [psychedelic induced] insanity is nothing but the inability to apply one's new-found sanity to the insane world.
When you have a bad trip, it is best to try to get through it. It's good to have a few valiums/xanax/ativan on hand in case one panics, but it is not reccomended. When a drug like that is administered, it does not stop the trip, only stops the panic. One will continue to have a bad trip, just not as unpleasant anymore. the worst is that the drugs will end up confusing you even more, and will impede psychic recovery after the trip; you wont be able to apply your new-found sanity because you wont remember how you got that way in the first place.
I guess that psychedelics can be teachers. But if your problems are complex, they can't really help. If your only problem is that you keep to yourself too much, then you can learn you need to reach out more.
But what if your problem is more complicated then that and you need to take definite externally located steps? What if your parents are abusive but you are dependent on them? What if you have some physical illness? The things you need to do--get a lawyer, etc,-- complicated things, they are not too useful in informing you about.
Ideally a shrink would help you with these things. But in reality, shrinks aren't helpful mostly. They just listen and don't guide.
I think social workers are the best option, but they are hard to find, and not easily accessible. I don't think people's problems are "mental," but environmental and environmentally induced "mental" issues.
-
of course they wont help you find a lawyer and navigate a beurocratic mess. psychedelics cant teach you that. but what they can teach you is how to be a better human being. i find that to be enough.
in terms of replacing a shrink, psychedelics allow you to see your mind from a third person perspective. they allow you to be your own shrink.
Shrinks do not help by magically revealing some information to you that you didnt know. they just help along your thought process through constructive criticism. generally, people do their own work, and the shrink acts as a guide. Psychedelics are not guides, they are tools which allow one to be their own guide.
social workers are human garbage. they sit on their ass all day and never do anything good. a couple i know got their kids taken away for a year and forced through rehab because their crackhead nephew told CPS or some other agency that they were smoking weed (they refused to lend the crackhead money so he blackmailed them and then narked, they were smoking weed but only on weekends when their kids were away at their grandparent's). Meanwhile, next door kids are getting beaten, shot at with bbguns and burned with sodering irons by their alchoholic stepdad and CPS is nowhere to be found.
-
acid and peyote is the answer?
-
acid and peyote is the answer?
yeah, something tells me acid and peyote aren't gonna help navigate a bureaucratic mess too well either.
-
I had the chance to speak in front of a bunch of mental health pros about abusive programs. The response was mixed. They're conflicted - some want to abolish involuntary teen residential treatment, some want to "reform" the beast. All you can do is hammer away at the issue, but a lot of them are hearing the message.
-
I had the chance to speak in front of a bunch of mental health pros about abusive programs. The response was mixed. They're conflicted - some want to abolish involuntary teen residential treatment, some want to "reform" the beast. All you can do is hammer away at the issue, but a lot of them are hearing the message.
If that was your mixed reaction, you're doing a very good job. I'd love to hear what you argued.
-
It was a presentation only, but the conversations around dinner afterward were more telling. There is a small but growing push coming from inside the mental health community and youth groups like MOVE. (Not the same militant Philadelphia group) The main difficulty is getting everyone together on it.
-
A graduate from Straight Inc by The Sea (SIBS) has the equivalent of two years of applied psychology.
-
It was a presentation only, but the conversations around dinner afterward were more telling. There is a small but growing push coming from inside the mental health community and youth groups like MOVE. (Not the same militant Philadelphia group) The main difficulty is getting everyone together on it.
Not sure everybody together in one organized movement is entirely a good idea for a variety of reasons too many to get into here, but if it helps bring dialogue to this issue, it's still a good thing. WIth me, it's a few key points:
- Liberty - Treatment that is involuntary isn't really treatment. It's re-education (i could get into this at length). informed consent... due process...
- Cultic origins and practices- Where the industry and it's methods came from, why they don't work, why they harm, etc... (point to lifton, singer, Ofshe)
- track records of programs - how regulation has failed in the past, how efforts to harness cultic groups that see themselves as higher than the law is bound to fail, ways programs get out of regulation, loopholes, lack of enforcement, misrepresentation to the public.
See. Now some people disagree (which is the problem with an orgainzation, rather than a collective). Some people think that the liberty argument is too far too soon. Some people also feel that the cultic origins argument alienates people at the mere mention of the word. Some also feel abolition is impossible, and as such, regulation must be an option, even if it hasn't worked in the past. That's why I don't like centralized organizations. I feel that if the three above issues aren't sufficiently addressed, we'll be repeating the mistakes of the past... Some also feel that abuse is the key issue to to deal with. I feel it's best left explained as an inevitable effect that is allowed to happen as a result of the above three causes... Better to treat the cause than the symptoms... but this has been debated here before.
-
It was a presentation only, but the conversations around dinner afterward were more telling. There is a small but growing push coming from inside the mental health community and youth groups like MOVE. (Not the same militant Philadelphia group) The main difficulty is getting everyone together on it.
Not sure everybody together in one organized movement is entirely a good idea for a variety of reasons too many to get into here, but if it helps bring dialogue to this issue, it's still a good thing. WIth me, it's a few key points:
- Liberty - Treatment that is involuntary isn't really treatment. It's re-education (i could get into this at length). informed consent... due process...
- Cultic origins and practices- Where the industry and it's methods came from, why they don't work, why they harm, etc... (point to lifton, singer, Ofshe)
- track records of programs - how regulation has failed in the past, how efforts to harness cultic groups that see themselves as higher than the law is bound to fail, ways programs get out of regulation, loopholes, lack of enforcement, misrepresentation to the public.
See. Now some people disagree (which is the problem with an orgainzation, rather than a collective). Some people think that the liberty argument is too far too soon. Some people also feel that the cultic origins argument alienates people at the mere mention of the word. Some also feel abolition is impossible, and as such, regulation must be an option, even if it hasn't worked in the past. That's why I don't like centralized organizations. I feel that if the three above issues aren't sufficiently addressed, we'll be repeating the mistakes of the past... Some also feel that abuse is the key issue to to deal with. I feel it's best left explained as an inevitable effect that is allowed to happen as a result of the above three causes... Better to treat the cause than the symptoms... but this has been debated here before.
Agreed on all of that. The rights of a minor are the same as an adult, but parental rights are the issue. Lon Woodbury wrote about that, illogical as always.
Here's one thing I learned at the presentation: Washington state will not allow involuntary residential incarceration of anyone 13 and above. The result: WA is the leading kid "exporter" - kids get dragged to programs via transport services. Parental will once again bypassing the rights of the kids.
-
Agreed on all of that. The rights of a minor are the same as an adult, but parental rights are the issue. Lon Woodbury wrote about that, illogical as always.
Yeah. But the problem is that the above mentioned fucktard forgets that there is no "right" to infringe on another person's rights. Slavery is a good example. A "right" to "property" ownership does not trump the human rights of the... "property". Very similar situation here where some imagined parental "rights" (to control another person) supposedly trump the inherent and inalienable rights of the kid.
Here's one thing I learned at the presentation: Washington state will not allow involuntary residential incarceration of anyone 13 and above. The result: WA is the leading kid "exporter" - kids get dragged to programs via transport services. Parental will once again bypassing the rights of the kids.
Yup. And it'll continue until this is addressed on a federal scale. In order to do that, the reasons why such drastic measures are necessary need to be conveyed... and that is not an easy task (or impossible, either).
-
Attorney (Philip?) Elberg got traction in the legal system under medical malpractice law in NJ. I think of the many programs owned by Universal Health Services--clearly representing their services as "therapy." How is this not malpractice, then?
Just yesterday, I was advised to find a foresic psychiastrist to review the case. Apparently under the law they can compare the teen's diagnosis to the treatment being administered and say whether it fits the standards of practice. Not sure why we are not getting further with this line of reasoning/action. In my case, I don't know how I would get access to my niece's records to pursue this, though.
Auntie Em
-
In my experience shrinks are no better than programs. Programs like to market using very new-agey type of language, talking about the "healing properties of nature" and other bullshit like that. Sure, go sleep out in your backyard in the dirt and eat a can of beans, see how healing that is parents. The staff a lot of times will have fake names like "flower" or "butterfly" to enhance this natural aura they wish to present themselves in. It's laughable really, but parents fall for it hook line and sinker. "I would go if I didn't have to work! " they might say even. Well, they don't really understand the reality and our imaginations tend to imagine the good possibilities rather than the evil ones. Back to my point though, many programs seem to prefer to operate in the non-medical realm. They are not like medical psychiatric wards which take a different approach to "changing" the thinking of a "troubled" teen.
In a wilderness program, they use harsh physical means to enact change. In other words, they keep you so uncomfortable and miserable, you will say just about anything to regain your standard of living that you were brought up your entire life to be accustomed to. I wouldn't take this approach with a dog, let alone a human being, these people really are insane that pursue these theories but that's for another thread.
Shrinks on the other hand have a different theory. They think a kid acting "bad" is the result of a "chemical imbalance" in the brain. So they give you all sorts of experimental medication. They have no idea what exactly it's doing to your brain. They will just give you a bunch of different meds until you act different. It's still a program but just a different means of achieving the "change" in the mindset of the kid.
The sad part is they can convince people that they are "broken" and in need of their fixing, but most of their medicines are very harmful, and very expensive. They make a lot of money and live a good life off convincing other people they are in need of changing their brain chemicals. Also, some shrinks do refer to programs, I know that for a fact.
-
sorry bout the shrink.
what an ignorant worhtless asshole - plz tell i said so, unless you've already gotten AWAy
a little education into what trauma does to a person would be in order, what the hell kinda school did he go to.
i've tried to tell a few (rather a couple) shrinks what happened.. first of all they never heard of such a thing. i send them to the websites including fornits, and both times they were so stunned at what they read and learned, that they started studdering and unable to speak clearly.
i'm happy that it shook them up of course... but aren't they s'pose to learn about handling such things with the proper understanding and empathy - what about the Stanford experiement. how could they not study classic examples like this.
and lawsuits, forget it, i don't why they are not willing to help. really i wish i knew some answers, cuz i would give em to you. good luck, take care, smoke a big bowl, etc.
it took me 11 years to remember the shit i was put through. you've been out a year and you remember it. thank-god, memory is the best start. what a buncha sick fucks.
lonely and fucked up michigan...
-
check this out:
PTSD related. I wouldn't suggest taking any psychiatric medications. Could add to an already existing bad mental state.
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu ... =420218592 (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=420218592)
-
I have been with the same shrink for 12 years. At first he was skeptical of what I had been through. In recent years, I called him on him on that. He said he had been confused, at the time. The big abuses in Texas were in the early 90's (look up Spring Shadows Glen (http://www.houstonpress.com/1995-07-06/news/diagnosis/ (http://www.houstonpress.com/1995-07-06/news/diagnosis/)), and the abuse I suffered was in the mid 80's. I informed the shrink that the abuses started long before that, but were unknown. How can anyone know about them, when your phone calls are monitored as are every minute of your day. You can't tell family as we all know, and that is even if you see family. I rarely saw mine. They came up a total of 3 times in 9 months, I think. I saw my brother, but he was enjoying the extra money not needed for me (insurance paid back then) so he did not want to hear about it. He got to go to Europe, Puerto Vallarta, etc. Long story about him.
Anyway. my point is that shrinks are often not aware or are baffled. My therapist does not want to hear about it, but that is an even longer story. I really don't even see her anymore. It became pointless. I needed her help getting away from this place and instead she talks in what I call "therapist circles". I can do that all by myself since I am a therapist by law, but not practicing. I do know the method. We were all taught it in school. We were definitely not taught to abuse or ignore though. I can guarantee you that. You learn that on the job, I presume. My jobs did not entail abuse since I worked in community services and hospice. So please don't assume we are all the same. We aren't. I refuse to abuse under any circumstances.
-
acid and peyote is the answer?
Short answer: YES!
Long answer: YES! Along with mushrooms, ketamine, salvia divinorum, ibogaine, DMT, ayahuasca, MDA, MDMA, and many, many others. Don't forget marijuana and other cannabis derivatives such as hashish and honey oil, they are particularly powerful agents against PTSD causes and symptoms.
-
acid and peyote is the answer?
Short answer: YES!
Long answer: YES! Along with mushrooms, ketamine, salvia divinorum, ibogaine, DMT, ayahuasca, MDA, MDMA, and many, many others. Don't forget marijuana and other cannabis derivatives such as hashish and honey oil, they are particularly powerful agents against PTSD causes and symptoms.
Drugs entertain you, but they won't solve your problems. I would advise against medicating PTSD, especially self-medicating, because then you will probably just want to do whatever drug it is that you're using to forget more and more, until you realize that it doesn't really take care of the base issue.
I'm not against drugs; I do them, myself. All I'm saying is that when people start thinking of a recreational drug as medicine, they will usually become psychologically addicted to it.
-
I am currently at Bromley Brook School in VT.
My name is Rebecca, I'm from Portsmouth NH, and i'm reaching out for guidance in any form.
Advice, a shoulder to lean on, someone to confide in, anything.
I'm at my last straw and i've already tried to die here but they found some way to drag me back to this hell hole.
Anything is appreciated.
-becca
-
check your pms