Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: AuntieEm2 on November 19, 2009, 10:33:52 AM
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Time and time again we hear about deaths in programs run by the troubled teen industry. Time and time again, we learn that an educational consultant has been pivitol and in placing that child in an abusive or deadly program. It's time for educational consultants to be held legally accountable for the referrals they make.
With all the investigations, lawsuits and prosecutions in progress, I would think edcons would realize the legal system will be scrutinizing their role.
Auntie Em
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Consider their role and the conflict of interest with their financial relationship with programs:
* Edcons claim to be experts when advising parents and families, but anyone can hang out their shingle and set up shop as a consultant.
* No background in children's mental health, social work or education is required. "Certification" is easily purchased from trade organizations that cater to edcons.
* Edcons routinely refer children they have never met or spoken with to programs--often to programs they have never visited.
* Edcons are paid by both the programs and the parents for the referrals, increasing responsibility and liability for the referral.
* Programs have staff members with job titles like "Coodinator of Consultant Services." Edcons are a central focus of their marketing and advertising efforts.
* Edcons are wooed, wined and dined by programs to incent them to refer to programs.
* When children die or are abused in programs, local law enforcement and prosecutors are often unaware of the involvement of educational consultants in the process. We can change that.
Educational consultants must be legally accountable for their referrals.
Auntie Em
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Time and time again we hear about deaths in programs run by the troubled teen industry. Time and time again, we learn that an educational consultant has been pivitol and in placing that child in an abusive or deadly program. It's time for educational consultants to be held legally accountable for the referrals they make.
With all the investigations, lawsuits and prosecutions in progress, I would think edcons would realize the legal system will be scrutinizing their role.
Auntie Em
This may be a good idea. There would be a lot to put into place (and think thru) similar to malpractice with doctors. Maybe form a society of Educational Consultants where they can share information and train on detecting good and bad programs. EdCons could go thru training and requirements to document and standardize placement procedures. They would need to get government subsidized malpractice insurance which would raise their commission costs to the consumer but would ultimately better protect the children and would pay for itself over several years. There would also need to be an award system which would award those Edcons who had the best records thereby motivating them to a commitment to continuous improvement.
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Maybe form a society of Educational Consultants where they can share information and train on detecting good and bad programs.
Ya mean ... like, IECA? :rofl:
Ya know, people have been bitchin' 'bout this for years. They have still have no professional oversight holding them to any standard of accountability. As far as I'm concerned, they've had more than enough opportunity and time to put something in place.
I like this idea:
* When children die or are abused in programs, local law enforcement and prosecutors are often unaware of the involvement of educational consultants in the process. We can change that.
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Another point to consider is there would have to be some sort of rating system created to identify which schools are abusive. So that way everyone is aware of which schools are on the list prior to referring to them. Then if an EdCon referred to an abusive program them it could show reckless intent to harm.
Better yet have the schools certified and then the edcons wouldn’t have to worry about it. Similar to your doctor referring you to a heart specialist. If you die during surgery your family cant sue the referring doctor because the surgeon was board certified. This way each doctor doesn’t have to research the backgrounds of each and every doctor.
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...some sort of rating system created to identify which schools are abusive.
They're all abusive. Thought reform is abusive on its face. Period.
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When children die or are abused in programs, local law enforcement and prosecutors are often unaware of the involvement of educational consultants in the process. We can change that.
Where is the hook or meat? If an Edcon sends a child to Phillips Academy and they have a riot or the kid falls out a window because he drank too much or the child was raped by a teacher how does the Edcon defend his business against this? It is not foreseeable. If an Edcon sends a child to Aspen Ranch and the kid gets killed, how can he be held responsible? Where is the information the edcon can tap into which would have saved this child’s life, where is the crystal ball?
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...some sort of rating system created to identify which schools are abusive.
They're all abusive. Thought reform is abusive on its face. Period.
Ursus, that will never hold up in court. You would need to establish that all programs are abusive. Similar to if your mother died in a car accident and you tried to go after the car dealer and sue them for referring her to that car and arguing that all cars are killers. You wouldn’t have a shot.
Now if the model had a recall or known defect then you would have a case... Similar if a program had a high risk then yes the referer could be held accountable, but first these measurements need to be put in place and secondly the information needs to get to the Edcons so that they can make an educated decision and protect their business.
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When children die or are abused in programs, local law enforcement and prosecutors are often unaware of the involvement of educational consultants in the process. We can change that.
Where is the hook or meat? If an Edcon sends a child to Phillips Academy and they have a riot or the kid falls out a window because he drank too much or the child was raped by a teacher how does the Edcon defend his business against this? It is not foreseeable. If an Edcon sends a child to Aspen Ranch and the kid gets killed, how can he be held responsible? Where is the information the edcon can tap into which would have saved this child’s life, where is the crystal ball?
Phillips Academy does not practice thought reform, at least not systemically or as an intentional part of their operating philosophy. Phillips does not cater to the troubled parent industry. It caters to the successful parent industry.
As to the crystal ball? Ed Cons already claim to have that in possession or, at least, would have the parents believe that they do...
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So then total, merciless accountability only applies to the choices of the teenagers? The kids are held to a higher standard than the adults? That's crazy.
The legal system holds people accountable not only for what they know, but also for what they should have known. Ignorance is not a defense.
* It's depraved indifference for an edcon to know that a child has died in SageWalk due to staff maltreatment and the very next week to refer a child to that facility.
* It's criminal for an edcon to be referring any child to any Aspen program now that the State of Oregon has determined that the "treatment" methodology is systematically abusive to all kids in its care.
* It's ethically and morally irresponsible for an edcon to be referring children to ANY facility practicing treatment methods grounded in emotional and physical humiliation and abuse "for the good of the child"--which includes virtually every program named on this forum.
Do I think educational consultants ought to be buying malpractice insurance? Yes. Do I think they have been unforgivably lax in responsibly serving the needs of children and families? Yes. Do I think they should be policing themselves and the industry? Yes. And law enforcement should be policing them as well.
Auntie Em
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Phillips Academy does not practice thought reform, at least not systemically or as an intentional part of their operating philosophy. Phillips does not cater to the troubled parent industry. It caters to the successful parent industry.
As to the crystal ball? Ed Cons already claim to have that in possession or, at least, would have the parents believe that they do...
Well said!! Eloquent and succinct as ever.
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So then total, merciless accountability only applies to the choices of the teenagers? The kids are held to a higher standard than the adults? That's crazy.
The legal system holds people accountable not only for what they know, but also for what they should have known. Ignorance is not a defense.
So there should be a system in place which provides each edcon with the same information so that they can make an informed decision. Doctors dont read the background checks on each other they depend on a system which allows them to make referals safely.
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When children die or are abused in programs, local law enforcement and prosecutors are often unaware of the involvement of educational consultants in the process. We can change that.
Where is the hook or meat? If an Edcon sends a child to Phillips Academy and they have a riot or the kid falls out a window because he drank too much or the child was raped by a teacher how does the Edcon defend his business against this? It is not foreseeable. If an Edcon sends a child to Aspen Ranch and the kid gets killed, how can he be held responsible? Where is the information the edcon can tap into which would have saved this child’s life, where is the crystal ball?
Phillips Academy does not practice thought reform, at least not systemically or as an intentional part of their operating philosophy. Phillips does not cater to the troubled parent industry. It caters to the successful parent industry.
Not today they dont, but if they started tomorrow then the edcons would not know about it and be at risk. So you would need to define boundary conditions like “thought reform” (as one condition) and catering to the “troubled Parent industry” (another condition). You would need to establish in court that these categories exist (No.1) and that they are a high risk to students (no.2). Once this is established then the Edcons would be notified of these potentially dangerous schools.
As to the crystal ball? Ed Cons already claim to have that in possession or, at least, would have the parents believe that they do...
Many industries claim to have one...especially wall street. Even folks here on fornits seem to think they can predict what will happen to a child if placed in a program.
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So then total, merciless accountability only applies to the choices of the teenagers? The kids are held to a higher standard than the adults? That's crazy.
The legal system holds people accountable not only for what they know, but also for what they should have known. Ignorance is not a defense.
* It's depraved indifference for an edcon to know that a child has died in SageWalk due to staff maltreatment and the very next week to refer a child to that facility.
* It's criminal for an edcon to be referring any child to any Aspen program now that the State of Oregon has determined that the "treatment" methodology is systematically abusive to all kids in its care.
* It's ethically and morally irresponsible for an edcon to be referring children to ANY facility practicing treatment methods grounded in emotional and physical humiliation and abuse "for the good of the child"--which includes virtually every program named on this forum.
Do I think educational consultants ought to be buying malpractice insurance? Yes. Do I think they have been unforgivably lax in responsibly serving the needs of children and families? Yes. Do I think they should be policing themselves and the industry? Yes. And law enforcement should be policing them as well.
Auntie Em
The Automobile industry kills thousands of people every year yet the guys that sell you these cars are never successfully sued, go figure. They are aware that kids die in them yet still take the money from unknowing families in hopes that the airbags will save them. Some are not that lucky.
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Analogy fails. The car sales industry is heavily regulated. For example, if they knowingly sell a used car that has unsafe brakes or has a factory recall on it, yes they are legally liable.
I'm sure you'd rather be talking about cars and doctors then dead kids and irresponsible edcons.
Auntie Em
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Analogy fails. The car sales industry is heavily regulated. For example, if they knowingly sell a used car that has unsafe brakes or has a factory recall on it, yes they are legally liable.
I'm sure you'd rather be talking about cars and doctors then dead kids and irresponsible edcons.
Auntie Em
Hey, AuntieEm, dont get pissed because you cant support your position. Its easy to say "all" programs are abusive and everyone should go to jail. but you haven’t explained how you will implement your solution and how it will be handled by the courts. You are just blowing off steam I think, not thinking it through all the way.
Maybe you could talk about regulating the industry which requires that information gets fed back to the EdCons so that they can make a safe referal or something along those lines. But anyone can start a referral business today and how would they know which schools are good or bad if there are no standards in place or not all schools are forthcoming with information? Some places may make their errors public and others may sweep them under the rug.
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Or this:
I was arrested several times in Boston...
Funny, so was John Reuben. He was arrested several times in Boston as well. On the same dates TheWho was arrested. Coincidence? Hardly.
Anyway, why would any parent entrust their child's welfare to John Reuben, an admitted criminal with an extensive arrest record including public intoxication and destruction of property, who openly refers to the most abusive family of programs, Aspen Education, who had half of their programs in Oregon forcibly shut down by state investigators for murdering, abusing and neglecting children in their care, including sexualized humiliation by forcing little girls to give lap dances to and perform simulated felatio on their unlicensed, uneducated couselors?
Think about this, parents, before you make the biggest mistake of your and your kid's life.
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There are parents who fail to research programs and educate themselves about what to look for. Parents send their child to abusive programs which could be prevented if they educate themselves and consult with a reputable professional who can educate parents about shady practices, including what to look for. Why don't we hold the parents accountable if they don't do their part?
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There are parents who fail to research programs and educate themselves about what to look for. Parents send their child to abusive programs which could be prevented if they educate themselves and consult with a reputable professional who can educate parents about shady practices, including what to look for. Why don't we hold the parents accountable if they don't do their part?
Oh, I'm sure they are being held accountable, in the most painful fashion, if they aren't already doing it themselves.
But this really doesn't address the OP of this thread, namely, that the Ed Con "profession" is still, in this day and age, legally pimping for programs at the cost of the flesh and blood of many a family. Literally, in some cases. And they are not being held legally accountable for it.
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There are parents who fail to research programs and educate themselves about what to look for. Parents send their child to abusive programs which could be prevented if they educate themselves and consult with a reputable professional who can educate parents about shady practices, including what to look for. Why don't we hold the parents accountable if they don't do their part?
And how do parents determine who is a reputable professional ? We ended up with a place with a guy faking a medical degree, a horrible program and several professionals were referring to the program.
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Hey, AuntieEm, dont get pissed because you cant support your position. Its easy to say "all" programs are abusive and everyone should go to jail. but you haven’t explained how you will implement your solution and how it will be handled by the courts. You are just blowing off steam I think, not thinking it through all the way.
Maybe you could talk about regulating the industry which requires that information gets fed back to the EdCons so that they can make a safe referal or something along those lines. But anyone can start a referral business today and how would they know which schools are good or bad if there are no standards in place or not all schools are forthcoming with information? Some places may make their errors public and others may sweep them under the rug.
You are not accurately quoting my position. I never disagreed with you about the need for reporting and information about abuse, maltreatment, neglect, and death in programs. A national database of such information is a key provision in HR911 that has been opposed by the industry and the edcons. If the edcons are serious about wanting this information, then they should be advocating for it. Your post as much as says that edcons have no way of knowing if they are placing children in "good" or "bad" facilities--so how can they ethically place them in programs at all?
I have been a strong proponent of regulation and accountability. I will continue to assert that educational consultants must be accountable for their role in placing children in abusive facilities. At present, there appears to be little or no moral and ethical accountability among edcons, let alone legal accountability. If the laws aren't there to support it, then we should pass them. I opened the conversation; I did not suggest I knew the solution. We have a moral obligation to protect children from abuse, and the cozy relationship between edcons and the industry invites a blurring of moral lines.
Auntie Em
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There are parents who fail to research programs and educate themselves about what to look for. Parents send their child to abusive programs which could be prevented if they educate themselves and consult with a reputable professional who can educate parents about shady practices, including what to look for. Why don't we hold the parents accountable if they don't do their part?
Part of the research is hiring and EdCon. If your son had diabetes you may try to educate yourself on line with webMD, but you would want to consult a professional who could guide you thru the maze of options and select the proper treatment. This is what an EdCon does. Plus many times there isnt alot of time to do research so you need to depend even more on the EdCon.
You have to remember the 99.9995% of the kids do extremely well. We/fornits mostly focuses on the few that dont do well or are abused by the system. So yes we need to hold people accountable but we dont want to hamper those who are benefiting from the industry.
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Using an education consultant is "consulting a professional"? Since they are not required to have any professional credentials in children's mental health, social work, or education, they're only as professional as they claim to be.
The person who works on your car at the dealership is required to have more professional training than an edcon recommending 2-3 years of "therapy" for your child. The person who cuts your hair is better trained and regulated than an edcon choosing your child's therapists and teachers.
Auntie Em
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Using an education consultant is "consulting a professional"? Since they are not required to have any professional credentials in children's mental health, social work, or education, they're only as professional as they claim to be.
The person who works on your car at the dealership is required to have more professional training than an edcon recommending 2-3 years of "therapy" for your child. The person who cuts your hair is better trained and regulated than an edcon choosing your child's therapists and teachers.
Auntie Em
You may not agree with it but thats what they call themselves. There is no regulation that I am aware of. You can become a professional boxer without a college degree also. What you expect from an EdCon is to help you through the maze of choices based on the particular issue your child has and his therapist recommends. They allow the parent to research the few they recommend instead of the thousands available. So the parents are involved in the research process.
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Lazy again, Reuben. Professional boxers are licensed, and cannot fight in sanctioned bouts if their licenses are removed. Totally irrelevant comparison, and as usual, incorrect. Nice work, Johnny. Or rather absence thereof. Again.
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Lazy again, Reuben. Professional boxers are licensed, and cannot fight in sanctioned bouts if their licenses are removed. Totally irrelevant comparison, and as usual, incorrect. Nice work, Johnny. Or rather absence thereof. Again.
Of course you do.. lets take a look at what was said:
You can become a professional boxer without a college degree also"
No "license" was mentioned.lol.. another reason why I post here, to keep it honest. You try to twist peoples words, Ajax13.
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TheWho is a criminal with an extensive arrest record, which he partially copped to here. A background check reveals TheWho is not honest about the extent of his own personal criminal history. Aside from the convictions, he's been arrested for some nasty things too. I think being a trust fund baby with a lot of money got him out of some molestation charges, but he was convicted of other charges too. Why won't he be honest about his own personal criminal record? Why would he be honest about anything else? He's a fraud, plain and simple. Until he comes clean and explains some of these very serious cases he's been hit with, nobody is going to believe him about anything else.
His father was a bigwig lawyer and got him out of some serious trouble, some surrounding inappropriate conduct with children. Some charges his daddy couldn't get him off. Why is TheWho trying to pretend he's something he isn't? Why is he avoiding his own criminal conduct while accusing others, like Psy, of being criminals? A quick glance at his arrest record shows he's projecting onto Psy when he accuses him of molesting children. He's got a real sickness and should be in treatment for offenders and not posting on a message board accusing others of what he himself has been charged with.
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Fornits members want to hold everyone else accountable except the child who put himself in a program. Your fornits people should pull your heads out of your fucking assholes.
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TheWho is a criminal with an extensive arrest record, which he partially copped to here. A background check reveals TheWho is not honest about the extent of his own personal criminal history. Aside from the convictions, he's been arrested for some nasty things too. I think being a trust fund baby with a lot of money got him out of some molestation charges, but he was convicted of other charges too. Why won't he be honest about his own personal criminal record? Why would he be honest about anything else? He's a fraud, plain and simple. Until he comes clean and explains some of these very serious cases he's been hit with, nobody is going to believe him about anything else.
His father was a bigwig lawyer and got him out of some serious trouble, some surrounding inappropriate conduct with children. Some charges his daddy couldn't get him off. Why is TheWho trying to pretend he's something he isn't? Why is he avoiding his own criminal conduct while accusing others, like Psy, of being criminals? A quick glance at his arrest record shows he's projecting onto Psy when he accuses him of molesting children. He's got a real sickness and should be in treatment for offenders and not posting on a message board accusing others of what he himself has been charged with.
If you expect children to hold themselves accountable, surely you can account for the contents of the above post, no? []u]t's hear your explanation of why you have an FBI number. Lead by example and take responsibility for your own extensive criminal record.[/u]ogram supporters like to call other people names and cut them down, but they often hide dirty little secrets, don't they? DON'T THEY, Whooter? Well, in your case, the dirty secrets aren't so little I suppose.
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There is a slim to none chance fornits members will give an honest response why they were sent to a program. It is easy to blame educational consultants, parents, teachers, program staff, police, state agencies and the mailman.
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There is a slim to none chance fornits members will give an honest response why they were sent to a program. It is easy to blame educational consultants, parents, teachers, program staff, police, state agencies and the mailman.
I'd like to hear TheWho's "honest account" about why he has an FBI number and an extensive arrest record. Why does he keep demaninding honesty from survivors, ut lies thru his teeth about his criminal history? Whooter, do tell why you're prevented from owning a firearm. Until you come clean about your own sordid criminal history everyone can just discount everything you say.
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Sooner or later, the courts will start taking notice that hundreds/thousands of kids are being caught up in unscrupulous and illegal behavior by the referral industry and could be more easily persuaded to pass some laws regarding placement services. Meanwhile, it's up to the people who know vs the people that hide and formulate excuses and disclaimers to make the role of the edcon as public as possible. One idea is to send out letters to personal injury lawyers letting them know about the industry and the edcon role. Whatever you do, just be careful out there now ya hear! ::unhappy:: :cheers: