Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) => Thayer Learning Center => Topic started by: Anonymous on April 14, 2004, 06:37:00 PM
-
:skull: Does anyone have any information regarding this incredibly abusive program run by a couple from St.George Utah, they say their names are John and Willa Bundy? please...kids are being hurt as we speak.
-
Never heard of them myself. I'd suggest you register a username and use the "start watching this topic" link at the foot of the page so that, if someone responds weeks or months from now, you'll get email notification. No need to post under the username and I never give out email addresses from the database (do use a good address, but check the "don't show my email address" box in the registration page)
He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to another, must be defended by him, whose property he is, and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master, and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to defend himself, and what he possesses; else he lives precariously, and at discretion.
James Burgh 1774
-
John Bundy has, what seems like a million, websites with deceptive names. THey all lead you to the same site. For instance, do a search in altavista for "troubled teen florida" and most of what comes up are sites that will be one and the same. He's got the search engines flooded with spam. That's all I know about him. I know nothing of the schools he refers to.
-
Aren't they considered a "Christian based" program?
-
Did anyone else notice that at the bottom of ALL the websites, it lists Parent Help as the parent company. That is owned by John Bundy. Do a whois search, some are private that you can't see, other's list him as the owner of the sites. What a racket! THe site is owned by him, but don't know if he actually owns Thayer.
-
Isn't Missouri one of the States that require an agreement by the teen to go?
-
OMG! Do an Altavista search for this phone number: 800-688-8706 - There are so many sites that come up. OMG...again!!
-
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=3496&forum=9 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=3496&forum=9)
-
http://www.fornits.baremetal.com/wwf/vi ... 07&forum=9 (http://www.fornits.baremetal.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=3807&forum=9)
SOMEHOW when you click on the links in the above site, it defaults or redirects to pharmacies if you click on them from this site. There are obviously a LOT more that weren't added, as evident from the phone number search in several search engines. The owner of the sites is the webmaster, not Bundy himself. Wonder how many parents have been duped by his spam?? THIS IS WRONG!
-
Hmmm...looks like they have some new sites attached to the previous ones now. Do a search for the new phone number 800-781-8081 and some more come up. This guy must be spending a fortune on all these sites, but it must be paying him well! So Thayer Learning Center is owned by this man?
-
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=9&Sort=D (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=1990&forum=9&Sort=D)
A former WWASPS employee? Looks like he's into his own "vengeance" with a vengeance! What an ugly way to live. Sounds like he was fired, just a guess, though.
-
In the above thread someone said he was a close friend of someone at WWASPS. If so, why doesn't he refer to any of the WWASPS schools? WHY?? because they wouldn't pay him to do so. That's why he and all other educational consultants don't, and then lie about why they don't refer to them.
-
On 2004-04-14 17:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Aren't they considered a "Christian based" program? "
Jesus warned of those who would come in His name, but not be of Him. It is wise to check out the schools before sending kids there. However, one must keep in mind, that just because there are those who use the Lord's name for ill-gotten gain, there are those who use the Lord's name for righteousness. There are very good schools that are Christian based and that do strive to emulate Jesus Christ.
Matthew 24:11 "and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people."
Mark 13:21-23 "At that tiime if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ? or, 'Look, there he is?' do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect - if that were possible. So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time."
II Peter 2:1-3 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destrucive heresies, even denying the soverign Lord who bought them-bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up.
It is unhelpful to stereotype all of these places for troubled teens as being bad. Yes, there are abuses that take place. The people who do the abusing should be executed. No problem.
There are those, however, that do help the teens without being abusive and without restraints.
Just because you wouldn't put your child there, doesn't make it wrong for everyone. It may be wrong to you, but that doesn't make it wrong.
While there are those who may feel that putting one's child in such a program, there are those who feel that not getting help is abuse.
There is no shame in admitting help is needed. There is shame in needing help and being too arrogant to get it.
Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool seems right to hikm, but a wise man listens to advice.
Proverbs 14:6 The mocker seeks wisdom and finds none, but knowledge comes easily to the discerning.
-
What do the above bible verses have to do with people "using" Christian based to bring in kids for their own profit? This whole concept of Christian based is a mask in many troubled teen programs. If the owner wasn't an internet spammer in the worst sense, then he might have some credibility. I'm shocked in a sense that there are SO MANY sites he is associated with that are misleading parents in crisis.
Everyone has a right to believe in something greater than themselves, if that's the right verbage. But, that doesn't mean these owners are greater than anyone, except in internet sites!
-
They have private time to read the bible or study guide the parents supply. They have no visiting pastor and as far as spiritual writing, they are NOT allowed to have any writing journal you may send to your child.
-
Missouri does not require them to have any type of license, nor does it appear they do not require any documentation from the state the child resides.
-
Yes. Registered in Missouri. Owner - Willa Bundy, his wife, although they actually reside in the State of Utah but advertise they live in Hamilton, MO and are generally on the premises.
-
So who answers all those toll free calls that are flooding the internet? Is it Thayer Learning Center, or another of the Bundy grunts? Do they only refer to Thayer and advertise they refer to other schools? This would be interesting to find out. I can't get anyone to answer the line, only a a machine.
-
"ACCREDITATION"
I don?t know much about it but it looks like John Bundy aka Thayer learning center aka parent help center could be real wheeler-dealers. You will see on parent help center?s website: http://www.parenthelpcenter.org/view.ph ... einfo=true (http://www.parenthelpcenter.org/view.php?id=80&moreinfo=true)
Proudly proclaiming Thayer Learning Centers academic program:
Academics
Thayer Learning Center offers several choices for High School and College Prep. There is a High School diploma program offered with accredited courses. Students have the ability to move at their own pace and learning ability. Competent staff and tutors are provided at every stage of their education. Instead of focusing on High School, TLC pushes college bound curriculum. Each student is assessed upon admission by our Education Specialist and then guided through designing their own specific course for success. TLC takes special care in working with each resident's home school to ensure proper course work is completed in the event they return to their home school for graduation. Students will also earn Quickbooks Pro Certification, and also become CPR/First Aid Ceritified.
Then mention the wonderful ?accreditation agency? that supports them:
School Credentials
Education is accredited through "American Schools"
Who is ?American schools?? There is no mention under various word scenarios found under google?s search engine! More importantly it is not respected by the United States Department of Education. It is probably a joke. Can you imagine applying to even a community college with a degree from Thayer learning boot camp /military school/ Christian school/ or whatever they claim to be, accredited by none other than the widely unknown (if it even exists) ?American Schools??
Almost all respectable schools are accredited through regionally accreditation agencies. They include as can be found on the US Department of Education: http://www.ed.gov/admins/finaid/accred/ ... n_pg7.html (http://www.ed.gov/admins/finaid/accred/accreditation_pg7.html)
MIDDLE STATES ASSOCIATION OF COLLEGES AND SCHOOLS--
NEW ENGLAND ASSOCIATION OF SCHOOLS AND COLLEGES:
NORTH CENTRAL ASSOCIATION OF COLLEGES AND SCHOOLS--
NORTHWEST ASSOCIATION OF SCHOOLS AND COLLEGES--
SOUTHERN ASSOCIATION OF COLLEGES AND SCHOOLS--
WESTERN ASSOCIATION OF SCHOOLS AND COLLEGES--
National Institutional and Specialized Accrediting Bodies
ACCREDITING ASSOCIATION OF BIBLE COLLEGES--
ACCREDITING COUNCIL FOR INDEPENDENT COLLEGES AND SCHOOLS:
No mention of ?American Schools?.
You will also find that they have a number of former clients that are looking to sue them, that in and of itself does not seem unusual in today?s world especially in that industry but most of the other schools being sued have hundreds or perhaps thousands of enrolled students so those that attempt to sue are a very small percentage of their clients as opposed to an ?American School? that hasn?t been in business two years I think it will be interesting to see how Mr. Bundy and Thayer and ?American schools? turn out.
-
Of the programs Parent Help Center refers to (see link below) do any of them pay "finder's fees" for placement referrals? Or, does Parent Help Center charge parents a consulting fee? Also, how do they go about "qualifying" the school or program?
http://www.parenthelpcenter.org/teenprograms (http://www.parenthelpcenter.org/teenprograms)
-
Thayer Learning Center is owned by John and Willa Bundy. I should know, I spent time in that hellhole.
Anybody who wants to get these bastards, do it. There are still kids in their awful programs who need help.
-
Does anybody know anything about SUWS Adolescent Treatment and At Risk Youth Wilderness Programs, I have heard some very bad things about them.
-
Parent help visits the schools that they refer to.
They do not get paid by the parents. They Charge the schools a marketing fee. There are many schools that contact Parent Help wanting Parent Help to represent them and are turned down.
-
I have known the Bundys for 20 plus years. I know that they are honorable good people. they really care about the kids. Thayer has a high success rate if kids are not pulled out early. Some times parents pull them out at the point when the kid is mad. That is the worst thing that can happen.
-
there are many kids at Thayer. And most are happy that they are there. My kid loved it there. Oh not the first few weeks. But it was like running a marathon. It was tough, but it is a great accomplishment And her life is really on track.
-
Thayer is a great program. It is not abusive at all. They dont let the kids run the program. and that is why they really help kids. John and Willa have devoted their lives to helping kids. If you would take the time to visit you will see that kids are usually very happy there.
-
Who are you? Why are you so negative and why dont you look at real facts. American Schools is a good academic program. Thayer has helped alot of kids get to college. Why is your life so negative?
-
On 2004-05-24 13:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Thayer is a great program. It is not abusive at all. They dont let the kids run the program. and that is why they really help kids. John and Willa have devoted their lives to helping kids. If you would take the time to visit you will see that kids are usually very happy there."
Suuuuuuuure.
That's not what a lot of the kids who actually lived through that hellhole had to say about it, from what I remember reading on other sites.
Oh, I forgot, *ALL* those kids (and adults) are lying.
Gee, isn't that usually what child molesters say, too?
Smoke. Fire.
:flame:
Timoclea
-
Why do you want to say so much bad about a program that is so good. Sure it is a little tough. But much of life is tough. thayer is a program that really builds character in kids. I sent my daughter there and she got alot out of it.
-
One of the pitfalls of an unmoderated forum with ample anonymous postings is the unknown source of each message. If someone wants to appear to be 4 or 5 different praising people, repeating the same message with slightly different words can *appear* (to a complete fool) to be a lot of different parents rising up and singing the wonders of a facility. It's only one misguided guy, folks, but then, you knew that, didn't you.
To the Anon who is so happy with Thayer, including warning to not stop paying $$$ until Thayer says so, your poor spelling and strange sentences give you away. Maybe you are a parent; more likely you are a staffer, safeguarding your job. Give it up, Anon. You're outnumbered zillions to one in the hate-it/love-it thread.
-
On 2004-06-02 15:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Why do you want to say so much bad about a program that is so good. Sure it is a little tough. But much of life is tough. thayer is a program that really builds character in kids. I sent my daughter there and she got alot out of it. "
I'll bet she did.
What *did* she get out of it? Bumps? Bruises? Contusions? Tardive Dyskinesia? PTSD? A long-term mistrust and negative feelings towards you, perhaps?
Smoke. Fire.
:flame: :flame: :flame: A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-- Robert Heinlein
-
I think your anonymous praise theory is a little off. Most of the time it is the same two or three people that are posting all the bad stuff. These are the people that have nothing better to do with their wasteful-pitiful life than sit on the internet and spread lies and rumors about good programs.
Most people that know the goodness of the programs don't care to search the internet to find someone bashing it and then reply to it. They have better things to do with there time.
These programs are inspected by state and federal officials without warning from time to time, and you know what, they can't find anything wrong with the facilities that is why they are still open and helping more and more kids everyday.
So to all the program bashers, GET A LIFE. :smile: :razz:
-
One of the pitfalls of an unmoderated forum with ample anonymous postings is the unknown source of each message. If someone wants to appear to be 4 or 5 different praising people, repeating the same message with slightly different words can *appear* (to a complete fool) to be a lot of different parents rising up and singing the wonders of a facility. It's only one misguided guy, folks, but then, you knew that, didn't you.
Can't the same thing be said about the one/s posting and bashing programs.
-
:eek: When my husband and I started looking to place our son for some help, we had spoke with TLC. This was before we even knew there was legalized torture homes for kids. TLC was blatantly honest in that the kids get no therapy while there. The tough discipline will be all that's needed. They (the kids) also start off by sleeping in tents. They have to "earn" their right to even have a bed. We were also told that there would be no visitation from parents (even on holidays) but that it was necessary as these are bad kids who deserve to be there and away from their parents. WHoooooaaaaa. I couldn't believe my ears. In the end we decided on Bethel Boys Academy, Lucedale, MS. It was just as bad and torturous as TLC, but they just lie about it. Yes, your child with get therapy, activities, schooling, etc. TLC at least was honest that they were going to neglect your kid. They just left out that they would be physically abused. Imagine that.
-
I was there for 4 months , i went in this time last year.Some people try to help others dont.But they Do lie alot to the parents.they try t braidnwash u(for real)(u have to watch G Rated(Kids 5 and under) movies everyday for 90 days.and sometiems we are taken out and once it was a smoke session, and we ran SEVENTY LAPS on and off through 1-2 hours.Maybe you should send your kid there tell him a secret code you will write in your letters or somethin because they read every letter coming in and cross out stuff they dotn want you to see.The nafter that month sue them.
-
and all the administraitors of the board need to do to see if it is thayer staff is check there IP addresses, on another message forum they were doing the same thing, the adminsitraitor of that board banned there ip addresses, but then thayr got that board shut down.
-
On 2004-06-07 12:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
I think your anonymous praise theory is a little off. Most of the time it is the same two or three people that are posting all the bad stuff.
You're absolutely wrong here. I know that our bodies were made to thrive only in pure air, and the scenes in which pure air is found.
-- John Muir
-
The practical difference between an unmoderated forum and a moderated forum is that, w/o moderation, you know what you're getting. No one decides for you what you will be allowed to read or write or how many times to write it (pretending to be different people or not). Likewise, no one can force you to use a spellchecker or vary your lexicon in order to better hide your identity. But, of course, you could do that if you wished. :rofl:
What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
-
On 2004-06-09 03:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
the adminsitraitor of that board banned there ip addresses, but then thayr got that board shut down."
Can you put me in touch w/ the former admins you're talking about?
Thanks,
Ginger
The college idealists who fill the ranks of the environmental movement seem willing to do absolutely anything to save the biosphere, except take science courses and learn something about it.
--P.J. O'Rourke
-
On 2004-06-07 12:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I think your anonymous praise theory is a little off. Most of the time it is the same two or three people that are posting all the bad stuff. These are the people that have nothing better to do with their wasteful-pitiful life than sit on the internet and spread lies and rumors about good programs.
Most people that know the goodness of the programs don't care to search the internet to find someone bashing it and then reply to it. They have better things to do with there time.
These programs are inspected by state and federal officials without warning from time to time, and you know what, they can't find anything wrong with the facilities that is why they are still open and helping more and more kids everyday.
So to all the program bashers, GET A LIFE. :smile: :razz:
"
Not from what I found. Most programs I've found out about dodge licensing like a cat dodges a running hose.
They tell the medical authorities they're a school, and the education authorities they're a medical facility---they say whatever they have to say to avoid having to be responsible to governmental oversight for their treatment of the kids within their walls.
They *should* be inspected without warning, frequently.
But from everything I've been able to find out, they very rarely are, and on the rare occasions when a BM program doesn't manage to dodge meaningful oversight and gets shut down for abuse, it either simply moves and reopens under a different name, or sends the staff scattered off to other parts of the teen gulag archipelago and somebody else opens yet another program under another name in another place playing the same old brainwashing and dodge-the-licensing shell game and the abuse goes on.
You know, a truly remarkable number of these programs' victims are amazingly unappreciative of the "help" of being gifted with a lifetime of PTSD, nightmares, and cold sweats.
Timoclea
-
My son spent over 5 months at Thayer. He said it was a joke. He said they lie to the parents. They even told one kid to tell his parents his books were there - even though they were not. I had a letter from a female school mate of my son (very upbeat young lady) that I wanted my son to have, but no, Thayer Learning Center refused to give him the letter stating their "rules" changed and they were only allowed to have correspondence from immediate family. I advised the parent rep I would be pulling my son out of the program if they would not give him the letter. The following week I was told they lost some of his exams. The next week, I withdrew my son from the program. Do you think Mrs. Bundy was professional enough to give me a refund although she admitted in front of witnesses that the refusal of the mail was a "mistake". No. Oh, did you know they tape record your conversations and if you say anything "negative" (actually truthful) about Thayer Learning Center - YOU have broken the contract and will be asked to remove your child WITH NO REFUND OF COURSE.
-
The only reason they advertise "Christian" based is so that the State of Missouri will not be in their business. There is no prayer sessions, no non-denominational speakers or pastors whatsoever. The cadets are to have religious material that the parent is to provide. OH, and spiritual journal writing is allowed - BUT that rule changed somewhere and the cadets were not allowed to have their journals their parents spent. Who knows, maybe because the Cadets were writing too many truths in their journals that may get Thayer in trouble?
-
Yes, I know of a couple of friends that sent their kids to Thayer. they got their kids back and the kids got on tract to go to College. One of the kids want to go back and work there. She will work there when she gets out of college. John and Willa Bundy are very kind people who love kids. their lives are dedicated to making lives better. I am glad that they dont tolerate employees that are not good for the kids. If you want to know about John and Willa Look at all the lives that they have changed.
-
How funny, I did what you asked and it listed 20 plus websites and I called them, Non of the websites were affiliated with him. In fact most lead to specific schools. I think that you must not understand how the www. works.
-
I know The Bundys. I honor their integrity. I would send my child to them anytime. YOur child will be safe and in fact they will help your child get back on trac in school. They will also bring the joy back into your relationship. they are wonderful people.
-
On 2004-06-14 14:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yes, I know of a couple of friends that sent their kids to Thayer. they got their kids back and the kids got on tract to go to College. One of the kids want to go back and work there. She will work there when she gets out of college. John and Willa Bundy are very kind people who love kids. their lives are dedicated to making lives better. I am glad that they dont tolerate employees that are not good for the kids. If you want to know about John and Willa Look at all the lives that they have changed."
Did the children learn proper spelling and punctuation? How would you know?
:wstupid:
-
On 2004-06-14 14:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I know The Bundys. I honor their integrity. I would send my child to them anytime. YOur child will be safe and in fact they will help your child get back on trac in school. They will also bring the joy back into your relationship. they are wonderful people."
:wstupid:
Will they teach your children proper spelling and capitalization? How would you know?
Don't you think you're maybe the wrong person to be recommending particular schools to people?
-
On 2004-06-14 14:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"How funny, I did what you asked and it listed 20 plus websites and I called them, Non of the websites were affiliated with him. In fact most lead to specific schools. I think that you must not understand how the www. works."
:wstupid:
When you tap on the side of your head, does it echo?
-
My friend's son was just court ordered to stay at TLC. I am worried because they are making him stay to finish his education, But he has had no education in weeks and keeps getting sent back to boot camp. Does anyone know who I can contact to find out if any legal actions have ever been brought against TLC. I know I am not a relative, But I have known this boy for years and he is not a "bad" kid
-
You did not check anything out. Anyone who types in any of those things will go to about 15-20 Bundy sites.
-
All the pictures on their sites are pictures of the Bundy's school. If a parent calls they will send them to Thayer. That way the Bundys can double up their charges. The Bundy's do not want people to know that they own Parent Help. That would hurt their ability to scam for more money.
-
That is the biggest bunch of crap I know that have put 10 and 11 year old in that school because of the money. Those kids didn't need to be put in with 14-17 year olds. They claim the school is for 13-17 year old but they will take anyone with some parents who have money.
-
American School program is crap I seen kids go through 500 pg books take all the test and pass them, and not have a clue about what they just supposedly learned.
-
Your daughter changed because she wanted to change. The program had nothing to do with it.
-
That is crap in Missouri, the state has very little that they can monitor with programs like this. That is why the Bundy came this way. Just like in Utah where there is little regulations, people like this can get away with scamming people. Does anyone know or even care that neither one of the Bundy's can prove that graduated from college and if they did does it even relate to child pychology or helping children. My guess would be if they did have degrees(highly unlikely) they would have degrees in business, because they sure do have a lot of businesses and know a lot a ways to move their money, and family as property owners, etc.
-
American School program is crap I seen kids go through 500 pg books take all the test and pass them, and not have a clue about what they just supposedly learned
i dont care lol, its an easy way to get out og high scool im almost done.Isearch forthe answrs online and finish a book within 3 hours. :lol: :lol: :lol:
anybody from thayer here?and studentgs stagf lol
get at me [email protected]
-
Good try from someone who doesn't have a clue.
The only thing true in this post MICKY, is the fact that he is not a bad kid! Other than that,
this person has chosen to believe every lie told
to her by this good kid. He is getting the help he needs and, without interference from his mother
and others, will have a diploma. Imagine that!
-
shut up idoot u dont have a "clue " i been doin american school since septemer when i was in Residency at thayer
-
I wouldn't be surprised if you people exclaiming that "the Bundys are warm and caring people blah blah blah" are the Bundys themselves. I've seen Willa posting on other forums before, challenging people who're questioning Thayer to "Come and see for themselves".
My name is Laura. I spent three months in Thayer. John and Willa Bundy are not "warm and caring" people. They're two of the most viciously manipulative people I've ever met, and I've met a lot of controlling assholes in my life.
It's one thing, my friends, to "know" the Bundys. It's quite another to live under their rule for weeks. I'd like to show you some of the physical scars I've got on my body thanks to their treatement. The psychological scars are a little harder to show off.
-
A friend of mine recently sent her step daughter to TLC BootCamp - I am wondering if the child will come back or try to run away. The father took the child to the airport telling her he was sending her away to a Teen Adventure Camp and at the gate told her it was military school and she would be there a while. She went nuts and the Police escorted her to the plane. We live in the San Francisco Bay Area. Does anyone know if this is normal for the police to do? After I heard this story I am seriously re-evaluating my friendship with the step mom of this child.
-
I sent my child to Thayer, and Parent Help helped me find it. I am so thankful because it turned my kids life around. Thanks TLC and Parent Help.
-
I dont know why anyone would say that Thayer is abusive. I know first hand that they are not. Of course the person that writes all of these things never adds their name.
TLC has given put alot of kids back on the right trac for success.
-
It's the same kind of stuff that is posted on other programs. If you believe what you read here, then ALL programs are abusive, unless of course, they haven't been around long enough, or not big enough to bother with.
:wink:
-
You know, the three previous postings all have careless spelling or grammar errors in them.
Not to be a spelling fanatic, I just find it interesting.
I have to wonder if they're by the same person and if that person has a financial stake in Thayer.
Other than that, obviously someone who can't type a one paragraph internet posting without spelling or grammar errors isn't the best person to give advice on quality schooling.
Timoclea
-
I posted prior to your post Timoclea. I have no experience of Thayer. I was commenting on the posts against any program admission.
Since spelling and grammar are what you are noticing, go back and scan the posts from those that share your point of view for spelling and grammatical errors.
That'll keep you busy!
-
A friend of mine recently sent her step daughter to TLC BootCamp - I am wondering if the child will come back or try to run away. The father took the child to the airport telling her he was sending her away to a Teen Adventure Camp and at the gate told her it was military school and she would be there a while. She went nuts and the Police escorted her to the plane. We live in the San Francisco Bay Area. Does anyone know if this is normal for the police to do? After I heard this story I am seriously re-evaluating my friendship with the step mom of this child.
If your friend's name is Tina I'd really like to talk to you in private. Please contact me at [email protected].
-
Bull! Parent Help and Thayer Learning Center are John and Willa Bundy. That much can not be disputed. What can not be nailed down is the Bundy's qualifications for running either.
-
On 2004-07-12 16:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I posted prior to your post Timoclea. I have no experience of Thayer. I was commenting on the posts against any program admission.
Since spelling and grammar are what you are noticing, go back and scan the posts from those that share your point of view for spelling and grammatical errors.
That'll keep you busy!
"
1) The norm for education for teens is living at home and going to the local schools. The burden of proof is on Program advocates.
2) If you'll notice my own other posts, you'll see that I readily acknowledge specific situations in which residential care is appropriate. My concern is with stopping inappropriate admissions, improving quality of care for appropriate ones and ensuring the closest proximity to family possible.
3) Since most of the critics of programs are program survivors who got their education inside the programs, and had the money set aside for their higher education consumed by the programs, their poor spelling and grammar only bolster their claims that the education offered by the programs they attended was substandard.
4) I believe I have, repeatedly, spoken well of the statistical track record of the original Outward Bound. It's not a cure-all, it's not appropriate for everyone, but within its sphere of competence it appears to do a good job.
Timoclea
-
Interesting KEV, that you thought I had time or energy to be involved in chatsite. I can understand you are embarassed for sending your son to Thayer without investigation, how convenient for you as well. Your intentions were good but the place is wrong for him. And yes, he might get his diploma when he is 25 due to their stringent regimen and your deep pockets. Please let him get real legitimate help before it is too late. My love and concern is as always for him. He is a good kid who deserves good decision making from the parents I know love him and who need to acknowledge healing work for all family members. TLC is not the place for healing or learning.
-
Yes, Tina is the name. Send me an e-mail at [email protected].
-
Yes, the name is Tina. Please send email to [email protected]
I forgot the word "party" when I posted last.
-
There are many abusive teen programs and parents should be very careful. When there are hundreds of horror stories one must realize that there must be some truth to them. There have been so many deaths and injuries. These programs may be more interested in your money than your child. Try telling them you don't have the money and see how fast they tell you that they are sorry. They are looking for people with deep pockets.
There are so many less drastic steps that can be taken. Try being a parent -set limits, restrictions. Oh - it does take time - one must think about this BEFORE having children, or step-children for that matter....To err is human; to forgive is simply not our policy.
-- MIT Assasination Club slogan
-
Why all this secrecy? Just say it!
-
The Bundy's are dead. Did you experience include crossing over and visiting spirits?
-
The Bundy's are dead? When did John and Willa Bundy die?
-
http://www.teenliberty.org/mtnpark.htm (http://www.teenliberty.org/mtnpark.htm) and
http://www.isaccorp.com/thayer.html (http://www.isaccorp.com/thayer.html)
-
On 2004-07-17 09:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The Bundy's are dead. Did you experience include crossing over and visiting spirits?"
What the?when?
I was threre from June(last year) 2 october.
ill state what i know, about the isaac webpage
"Willa Bundy has made claims of having "30 years experience" when speaking to parents and when posting to internet bulletin boards."
True, In Seminars(4 Total throughtr the "program") she said that
"According to former staff members, Willa is only 42 years old."
I heard that on another board
"The current Director of Thayer Learning Center is the Bundy's 21 year-old son."
around the time i left, DrillSgt Bundy, aka Jake Bundy was the assistant director/bootcamp director(they forced Drill Sargent Lawlor out, he wasnt "crooked" or anything, people just said he was the hardest drill sgt(whihc he was, lots of leap frogs in a smok session :sad: ) anywyas we never so lawler or his sister(who was a sgt in bootcamp) again!Anwyays they were preparing Jake Bundy to be the Director.Befor i came he was there for like a month, and then in July he came back.There was a big anticipation like he was a hard drill sgt(which he wasnt, most of his excersise sets were easy except when he came back in August(he left after being there 2 weeks))Anywyas It was during the first seminar, Willa told us that hed be comin soon, and he was her son, and hed been Drill Sgt in the Army(he had a Army patch where most Drill sgts had TLC bootcamp on there camouflauge blouses) for 10 years.The 21 son might be there "step son" Wayne Jensen(who was a sgt in bootcamp when i was there, towards the time i left he became a "family rep"(talked with the parents etc).
"John Bundy currently owns Parent Help/Parent Help Center in St. George, Utah."
I think thats known over here
"According to former employees, "Grisel" is the maiden name of Willa Bundy."
If i remember correctly, there was a guy there named Olsen(forgot his first name) I think he was addopted, but on his chart for excersise, and school achievements, one of the names said Grisel.He told us all he was related to the bundys but they never talked to him like a family memeber just treated him normal.Anywyays he ws just there because he was fat and didnt wannado nothin cept play video games all day.He was at the last part of the program jr staff when i left, i heard from somehwere else that came home recently he Became a SGT, he was like 16 when i left, so he's workin at 17 i think.
"During a one year period, group therapy occurred just once - at 10 PM and was led by Willa Bundy."
when i was there it happened for atleast 30 mins every tuesday.we all talked about our week we had, and how to make improvements on our team.
"All calls from children to parents are monitored and children are punished for saying anything against the program."
Yes it is true.In bootcvamp u dont get calls just write letters if u say somehtinfg bad ikjn the letters u get a long smoke session(excersise).In Residency you get a Big Fine, one of the kids asked if he could go home if he got his school finsihed early, and he was down in bootcamp till i left.his name is John Diarbakely
"Willa and John Bundy are reportedly gone for extended periods of time and leave their 17 year old daughter in charge of the facility."
yes they are, atleast one of them are there maybe 4 days out of a week.Most of the time the Resident Directors(might ive changed i dunno, but her name was Jamie Barker), and Bootcamp(Jake Bundy when i was there) ran it im pretty sure.I dunno who there 17 year old daughter is.
"A male staff member distributed illegal drugs to at least one female student."
i wasnt there during that tiem but i herd his name was sgt derby when i was there from pothewr students.
"Before announced visits by the Department of Social Services, Willa Bundy allegedly takes "problem" students out for ice cream or to Wal-Mart."
i dunno about that, might have been after i was there.Around the time i left they were getting unstricter.B4 I got there, It was mroe hectic, I heard from like 10 kids that were there b4 me, they told me that there was a 5 Day smoke session and the ONLY time they gotta break was during enrichment(g-rated video tapes 2 hours a day only), and eating, and they had 3 parties(1-2 hour excersie sessions in the middle of the night), The next week they were all like Zombies they said lol.
"In one building on the property, 26 female children share 1 bathroom and are given just 30 seconds to get ready for bed at night."
when i ws tehere there was only one building, but yes it wsa true there weere 20 of us, and we got 1 minute showers at the end of the night, we brushed our teeth used the bathrookm etc
when i left they were expanding the building building another facility which was a gym for the residents, maybe a basketball gym, and it was suppsoed to be finished December 1st, but i never knew if it was cuz i left b4 that.
"Students are awakened in the middle of the night and forced to exercise."
thats what a party is, 1-2 hours of excersiing, sometimes after they let us take 30 second showrers(just rinseing no soap), other times u just sleep in sweatyt clothes.In bootcamp tjhose haopopen like once every 2 weeks.
"Children who are not physically fit are required to perform strenuous activities, including 6-mile runs."
i dunno about that, during one smoke session , we ran 3 miles, and drill sgt bundy said we would start running 5 miles, then 8 miles on monday and friday to get more "fit".During the run we had to chant cadences while running for the first 2 miles.I went uyp to residency later ,and laster hte poeple who came up told me the 5 mile and 8m ile nevcer happened.
"The facility reportedly has no certified teachers. Classes are "taught" via videotape."
thats in bootcamp.in residency ur give n the ameridcan scool books, anbd u do the books urself, it takes atleast 2 months(6 hours a day) ofg school to finsih a Year of school if u work very fast.B4 i was in residency there was a certified treacher who was also a sgt. named Gym gray him and his wife helped students with there books.When i was there the sgts(some of which were college students) helped us with what they knew, and checked our tests.
"
Level 1 boot camp students sleep on a concrete floor."
yes when i was there, we sleptin sleeping bags, with a blue styrofoam 4 centimeeter mat under.
in residenct we slept on bunkbeds, pretty confy lol, we hit the magtresses with brooms to get the dust out every sunday, we kept the pace pretty cleasn
"The facility is reportedly overcrowded and housing some children in trailers, yet hoping to double enrollment for the summer boot camp program."
musta been after i left.When i first camre there, there were like 60 peopel total, when i left liek 125.OVer a 4 month span.
one thing that was said by thre resident director jamie barker when we were in group therapy once in bootcamp, we were talking about how we all thought we were only there for a month(which we were) and she said, 'were talkign to your parents about how good the program is andf what its about when your not"(which is true case we can only write letters,adn the family reps sometimes cross out what we write
ok im tried of typing ill rest some.wsorry for my spelling errors i was jsut tryna get this doe fast
if u want to talk to me, get at me on [email protected] on Yahhoo messenger or e-mail me.
-
On 2004-07-19 11:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2004-07-17 09:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The Bundy's are dead. Did you experience include crossing over and visiting spirits?"
What the?when?
I was threre from June(last year) 2 october.
ill state what i know, about the isaac webpage
"Willa Bundy has made claims of having "30 years experience" when speaking to parents and when posting to internet bulletin boards."
True, In Seminars(4 Total throughtr the "program") she said that
"According to former staff members, Willa is only 42 years old."
I heard that on another board
"The current Director of Thayer Learning Center is the Bundy's 21 year-old son."
around the time i left, DrillSgt Bundy, aka Jake Bundy was the assistant director/bootcamp director(they forced Drill Sargent Lawlor out, he wasnt "crooked" or anything, people just said he was the hardest drill sgt(whihc he was, lots of leap frogs in a smok session :sad: ) anywyas we never so lawler or his sister(who was a sgt in bootcamp) again!Anwyays they were preparing Jake Bundy to be the Director.Befor i came he was there for like a month, and then in July he came back.There was a big anticipation like he was a hard drill sgt(which he wasnt, most of his excersise sets were easy except when he came back in August(he left after being there 2 weeks))Anywyas It was during the first seminar, Willa told us that hed be comin soon, and he was her son, and hed been Drill Sgt in the Army(he had a Army patch where most Drill sgts had TLC bootcamp on there camouflauge blouses) for 10 years.The 21 son might be there "step son" Wayne Jensen(who was a sgt in bootcamp when i was there, towards the time i left he became a "family rep"(talked with the parents etc).
"John Bundy currently owns Parent Help/Parent Help Center in St. George, Utah."
I think thats known over here
"According to former employees, "Grisel" is the maiden name of Willa Bundy."
If i remember correctly, there was a guy there named Olsen(forgot his first name) I think he was addopted, but on his chart for excersise, and school achievements, one of the names said Grisel.He told us all he was related to the bundys but they never talked to him like a family memeber just treated him normal.Anywyays he ws just there because he was fat and didnt wannado nothin cept play video games all day.He was at the last part of the program jr staff when i left, i heard from somehwere else that came home recently he Became a SGT, he was like 16 when i left, so he's workin at 17 i think.
"During a one year period, group therapy occurred just once - at 10 PM and was led by Willa Bundy."
when i was there it happened for atleast 30 mins every tuesday.we all talked about our week we had, and how to make improvements on our team.
"All calls from children to parents are monitored and children are punished for saying anything against the program."
Yes it is true.In bootcvamp u dont get calls just write letters if u say somehtinfg bad ikjn the letters u get a long smoke session(excersise).In Residency you get a Big Fine, one of the kids asked if he could go home if he got his school finsihed early, and he was down in bootcamp till i left.his name is John Diarbakely
"Willa and John Bundy are reportedly gone for extended periods of time and leave their 17 year old daughter in charge of the facility."
yes they are, atleast one of them are there maybe 4 days out of a week.Most of the time the Resident Directors(might ive changed i dunno, but her name was Jamie Barker), and Bootcamp(Jake Bundy when i was there) ran it im pretty sure.I dunno who there 17 year old daughter is.
"A male staff member distributed illegal drugs to at least one female student."
i wasnt there during that tiem but i herd his name was sgt derby when i was there from pothewr students.
"Before announced visits by the Department of Social Services, Willa Bundy allegedly takes "problem" students out for ice cream or to Wal-Mart."
i dunno about that, might have been after i was there.Around the time i left they were getting unstricter.B4 I got there, It was mroe hectic, I heard from like 10 kids that were there b4 me, they told me that there was a 5 Day smoke session and the ONLY time they gotta break was during enrichment(g-rated video tapes 2 hours a day only), and eating, and they had 3 parties(1-2 hour excersie sessions in the middle of the night), The next week they were all like Zombies they said lol.
"In one building on the property, 26 female children share 1 bathroom and are given just 30 seconds to get ready for bed at night."
when i ws tehere there was only one building, but yes it wsa true there weere 20 of us, and we got 1 minute showers at the end of the night, we brushed our teeth used the bathrookm etc
when i left they were expanding the building building another facility which was a gym for the residents, maybe a basketball gym, and it was suppsoed to be finished December 1st, but i never knew if it was cuz i left b4 that.
"Students are awakened in the middle of the night and forced to exercise."
thats what a party is, 1-2 hours of excersiing, sometimes after they let us take 30 second showrers(just rinseing no soap), other times u just sleep in sweatyt clothes.In bootcamp tjhose haopopen like once every 2 weeks.
"Children who are not physically fit are required to perform strenuous activities, including 6-mile runs."
i dunno about that, during one smoke session , we ran 3 miles, and drill sgt bundy said we would start running 5 miles, then 8 miles on monday and friday to get more "fit".During the run we had to chant cadences while running for the first 2 miles.I went uyp to residency later ,and laster hte poeple who came up told me the 5 mile and 8m ile nevcer happened.
"The facility reportedly has no certified teachers. Classes are "taught" via videotape."
thats in bootcamp.in residency ur give n the ameridcan scool books, anbd u do the books urself, it takes atleast 2 months(6 hours a day) ofg school to finsih a Year of school if u work very fast.B4 i was in residency there was a certified treacher who was also a sgt. named Gym gray him and his wife helped students with there books.When i was there the sgts(some of which were college students) helped us with what they knew, and checked our tests.
"
Level 1 boot camp students sleep on a concrete floor."
yes when i was there, we sleptin sleeping bags, with a blue styrofoam 4 centimeeter mat under.
in residenct we slept on bunkbeds, pretty confy lol, we hit the magtresses with brooms to get the dust out every sunday, we kept the pace pretty cleasn
"The facility is reportedly overcrowded and housing some children in trailers, yet hoping to double enrollment for the summer boot camp program."
musta been after i left.When i first camre there, there were like 60 peopel total, when i left liek 125.OVer a 4 month span.
one thing that was said by thre resident director jamie barker when we were in group therapy once in bootcamp, we were talking about how we all thought we were only there for a month(which we were) and she said, 'were talkign to your parents about how good the program is andf what its about when your not"(which is true case we can only write letters,adn the family reps sometimes cross out what we write
ok im tried of typing ill rest some.wsorry for my spelling errors i was jsut tryna get this doe fast
if u want to talk to me, get at me on [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]) if u have info
-
The information I have is that the Bundys are not dead. Contact someone at isac and ask them.
-
To the Anonymous former TLC student-- these pictures of basketball games and video games that you see on their website may be nothing but an act pictured and posted there to make it seem like the kids at TLC get to enjoy this kind of recreational activities. Many programs do it, it makes them seem more "normal"-- even Tranquility Bay tells parents about how the kids are taken on hiking trips and snorkeling and stuff like that.
So, don't believe everything you see in these websites...
Thanks for all the information (insider info is always good to have), and I hope you're doing better now that you're out of that place. Take care.
-
Why does her college have no record of her degree?
As a matter of fact there is no record of her anywhere.
Did someone beam her down? Hey Scottie where are you when you are needed?
-
Before I came to TLC I was a complete wreck. I was using drugs such as marijuana, cocaine, shrooms, and ecstasy, as well as drinking alcohol, and smoking cigarettes, I was also using medically prescribed drugs in the wrong way. My life was headed down the path of destruction, and I could care less about it. My parents tried everything, they spent an abundance of time and money on me, but I continued to stick with my bad habits, even when my parents threatened me with programs. I arrived at TLC on June 30th, 2003 and I have now attended T.L.C. for 12 1/2 months. My first days at TLC were very hard on me emotionally, I didn't think I belonged here. At first I thought my parents were playing a joke on me, and that they were trying to scare me with Bootcamp. After my 5th day I realized that my parents were not playing games with me and that I was going to be here for a while. I hated my parents for sending me here, and I couldn't believe they would do such a thing. Once I figured out that I was going to be here for a while I decided that I was not going to change my life, because it seemed too hard, so I tried to run away from my problems, which turned out to be avery big mistake. I was put into isolation and was given a red suit, which is the lowest you go in the program. I was in isolation for (2) weeks, and once I got out of Isolation I decided to at least give it a shot. So I started by giving a 100%. effort on my physical exercise, and by being the best at everything I did. Around my 20th day I started setting goals for myself. The first goal I set for myself was to get a brown shirt and become a team leader. On my 32nd day I earned my brown shirt and was appointed the Co-Team Leader of Bravo. While I was the Co-Team Leader I maintained a positive attitude, and kept on striving to be the best. On my 40th day I became the Team Leader of Alpha. As a Team Leader I actually felt in some ways how my parents felt when they told me something to do and I mouthed off to them I learned how frustrating it can be. By this time in my life I felt excellent about myself. I had set goals for myself, and I worked hard to achieve them. For once in my life I had accomplished something for myself that would improve my well being. In Bootcamp I learned to set goals for myself and that goal setting is a very important key to obtain in life.
While in Bootcamp I had a decent relationship with my family, it was a lot easier for me to talk to my parents through a letter than to their face. After a while I started getting tired of just writing my parents I wanted to talk to them on them on the phone, and I knew that in residency you could talk to them. So I began working as hard as I could so that I could become a resident. By my 84th day I made it up to residency. In residency I learned that it was a lot harder to communicate with your parents on the phone than through letters. I had a few setbacks in residency that resulted in Bootcamp, but each trip back to Bootcamp was a quality learning experience. I learned that we will all mess up, but what really matters is how we will handle ourselves when we do mess up. After my 3rd trip to Bootcamp I was done doing the wrong thing. I knew I was better than that. I began to realize it's not that hard to do what you are expected of. As I improved myself life got easier and easier. I still had issues, but I learned how to handle myself in a mature way. In residency it took me a while, but I became consistent. Instead of following others I started following through on my own beliefs, and doing what I knew was right. By my 9th month I began thinking seriously about junior staff and a month later my tremendous effort throughout the program paid off and I advanced to Junior Staff.
In Junior Staff I learned that to get anything you must give everything. In Junior Staff I had normal arguments with my dad, but Ilearned how important it is to keep communicating so my dad knows how I feel instead of just shutting down. Before I thought there was no point in arguing so I just shut my mouth and didn't say a word, which may seem like the better thing to do, but when I did that I was just Isolating myself. Junior Staff was the greatest learning experience of all because you find out exactly who you are, and your integrity is constantly being tested. I know all you guys think Junior Staff is just a bunch of fun and games, but there is a lot of work involved with Junior Staff, and much more is expected out of you than any other stage of the program. But along with all the hard work came loads of fun, and plenty of exciting moments. TLC has been a gut-check for me and I am leaving here a completely different person that walked in here 385 days ago. I am pleased to know that I have a successful future ahead of me. The first individual I would like to thank for giving me a second chance in life is my father in heaven. The second person I'd like to thank for sticking with me through thick and thin is my father. I know there's not a soul in the building that's as proud as my dad is right now. I would like to thank Mr. Bundy for being a father like figure for me. I would like to thank Mrs. Willa for all the helpful moments she provided. I would also like to thank Miss Chelsy for making a big difference in my life. I wouldlike to thank Sergeant Sperry for never giving up on himself when I was -demolishing him at basketball. I'm just kidding I want to thank Sergeant Sperry for all the fun rides up to the chicken coop. I would also like to thank Sergeant Jensen and Sergeant Aitchison for instilling discipline into my life. I would like to thank Miss Jamie and Miss Wendy for keeping faith in me throughout my stay here at TLC. And last but not least I would like to thank all the junior staff and senior residents, also Resident Smith for helping me get through the program. Thank You, God Bless.
-
"Hello everyone,
I would like to tell you a little bit about my stay here and how T.L.C has helped me change my life. I arrived here at T.L.C. on May 11, 2003 and to tell you the truth I was a mess and I hated everyone and everything around me, I didn't want to change, I loved my life and noone was going to make me change, then I started thinking about all the things I did when I was at home and maybe I did need to change my life around but I had to do it, no one could do it for me I had to do it for myself. Well I started to do things right and do what I was told and on my 97th day I moved up to residency and there I started to build a really strong relationship with my mother, and we became really good friends, I started to respect her a lot but little by little. I got my 1st family visit and I tried to convince my mother that I was ready to go home and she told me that she had a commitment with the school that she would keep me here for a year. In that year I have had some set backs, but I never let them hold me back. I have goals for the future and I will not give up until I succeed, I've learned so much here and one thing that I've learned is that you can't give up even when the going gets tough.
1st I would like to thank God for giving me everything he has and for seeing me through the hard times in my life.
2nd I would like to thank my parents for being my #1 fan and for always being there for me and never giving up on me even when it seemed like there was no hope for me. I want ya'II to know that it is greatly appreciated.
3rd I would like to thank Mr. Bundy, Mr. Jake and Ms.Willa for always believing in me and for helping me change my life around, with out you guys I am sure that I would not be the respectful young lady I am today, so thank you for everything.
4th I would like to thank Ms. Kim for always being there for me when I need you, you have been a big part for me here at T.L.C so thank you for everything.
And last I would like to thank Ms. Chelsy and Sgt. Sperry for making Jr. Staff fun and exciting and for caring about me so much and giving me the attention I needed. Everything ya'll have done for me has made a big impression on my life and I will never for get what you all have done. Thank you"
-
Hello everyone.
I arrived at TLC on September 19, 2003. I thought that day was the worst day of my life, but I was wrong. The first week I was here was terrible. I spent it with my new best friend, a bucket. I was very sick and could not even pick myself up. But I remembered my granddad always telling me that whenever something bad or hard was going on to remember those five little words "And this too shall pass." And it did pass and I used those five words to help me through this program. After that, I became the quiet one. I always tried to do everything right so I wouldn't get smoked. I stayed that way all through residency but with a different purpose, it just felt good doing things right.
In Junior Staff, I was forced to open up. I used the tools I have learned through this program and really changed. I had learned to respect others and especially myself before I moved up to Junior Staff but here is where I used it the most. I also learned to maintain a job, which I never did at home. This part of the program showed me how life is with a job and school. I found out how stressful it is and what all my parents go through everyday. I am going to carry all these things with me to help me have a wonderful and successful future. My time at TLC passed just like my granddad told me it would and believe it or not this was the best thing that ever happened to me.
After being here for 10 months, I have learned many valuable lessons from many people. First I would like to thank God. He showed me that everyone has a purpose and I'm so thankful that He gave me this opportunity to show me mine. Second, I would like to thank my parents for everything they have done for me. You know I always thought it was harder on me being here all alone but after seeing my parents I can tell it was much harder on them. I love both of you so much! Next I would like to thank Mr. and Mrs. Bundy for all their hard work they put into this place. I am so thankful for everything you have done for me. Also I would like to thank Miss Chelsy and Sergeant Sperry for caring - this much and making Jr. Staff an awesome learning experience for me. Last, Ms. Lisa, she helped me through so much here, I could not have done it without her. She has been so kind to me as well as my parents. Thank you for everything you have done for us.
-
Perhaps you could tell me where she got her degree it wasn't Utah State as she claims, thanks
respond to:
[email protected]
-
Obviously Ms. Bundy is alive and well, as she can compose three separate "endorsements" supposedly from grateful students. Ms. Bundy, however, has the same fault as the editor of The Source magazine from WWASPS. All the messages to this board have the same syntax, grammar, spelling, code phrases, and program rhetoric. Even slipping some cute little "...I was really wrong and got sent to isolation, but came to learn that life was better if I was good" don't make the postings sound like they came from three different formerly-rotten teens.
Nice try, Wila.
-
It's really sad. I can almost hear---who was it? Steve Martin?---
"Ah was born a poor black chahld, but Thayer *saved* me! They taught me to set goals and re-spect mahself and now ah am a 5'7" blond, blue-eyed Harvard Law student--with perfect teeth, studying medicine on the weekends, and work part-time as a supermodel on alternate Thursdays---but only in Christian catalogs, of course."
So, come, turn in your defective normal kid that looks and acts just like *you* did as a teenager. We'll put him through our transmogrifyificator and turn him into the perfect little Aryan Christian Achiever of your dreams!
*sigh*
How much do you have to hate yourself to take a teen that looks and acts just like you did and "send him back to the kitchen" for a full makeover into some frankensteinian combination of Donnie or Marie Osmond crossed with Jennifer Anniston or Mel Gibson, crossed with your local congressman or congresswomn, crossed with Doogie Howzer?
I think some of it has to do with too much television----not the *kids* watching too much, but the *parents* watching to much.
On TV, everybody's beautiful, even the geeks are beautiful, if you look closely--their social problems are only matters of style that they could change if they only "knew better."
On TV, if you're bad at school, you're socially cool to make up for it---nobody suffers through being awkward *and* struggling academically.
On TV, the actors playing teenagers are all in their 20's, and they all manage to solve their "growing pains" in a heartwarming way and learn an important life lesson in thirty minutes---one hour, max.
On TV, the "good" kids either get their life together or have some compensating strength--in thirty minutes to an hour---and the kids going through a bad patch episode after episode tend to be depicted as rotten monsters. The kids going through a bad patch not only don't fix their problems in thirty minutes, they *never* grow out of being rotten. They occasionally have their mandated heartwarming moment---but they always go right back to being rotten by the end of the episode or the next episode.
On TV, nobody ever has a truly insurmountable problem that actually *does* limit their options in life. Joan of Arcadia's paralyzed brother is about the closest I've seen TV come---and everybody is supportive and nobody freaks out and just treats him weirdly.
On TV, nobody is ever a jerk about just one or two things and just plain dislikes one or two people who get along with the rest of their friends. On TV, nobody just has plain old bad parents. If they do, the bad parents aren't a part of an ongoing drama, they're the butt of comedy. (Angelica on Rugrats, Al and Peg Bundy).
I think Program Parents expect raising a teen to be like a TV show, and are surprised and frustrated when *their* teen isn't Richie Cunningham or John Boy or Lizzie McGuire.
And so it becomes "unacceptable" for their teen to be just like they or their brothers or sisters or their classmates were as teens, and the Program Parent becomes easy prey for places that promise a too-good-to-be-true outcome for prices that, if you're spending that much, *must* mean they can fix all your parenting "mistakes" that made *your* kid not turn out like John Boy or Lizzie.
And, of course, paying through the nose makes it feel enough like penance that you can indulge in a little self-flagellation to calm your soul and feel like you're expiating your sins of commission or omission in parenting.
Program Parents need to grow the hell up.
Life is not a TV show. Real teenagers do not look like charming twenty-somethings. Real teenagers do not solve their adolescent turmoil in thirty minutes or even thirty weeks. Real teenagers *also* don't stay stuck in adolescent turmoil forever. Their bodies and brains mature, they figure it out, and over the course of several *years*---they grow up---no Program required.
Program Parents need to grow up and accept their adult responsibilities. *Their* parents put up with them during their pain-in-the-neck teenage years. It's their turn, it's their job, and shuffling them off to strangers will never substitute for modeling accepting personal responsibility and being a parent *personally* even when it's tough---no matter *how* much money they spend.
A couple who work 80 hours a week, each, and foist their toddler off on the best nanny money can buy are no kind of parents, no matter how good the nanny is or how much she costs.
A couple who send their teen to a Program instead of taking personal responsibility to personally raise him or her are no kind of parents, no matter how much the Program costs or how many "seminars" or how much "therapy" they attend.
They want their teens to turn into instantly personally responsible little adults---while abdicating their own ***personal*** responsibility as *real* adults and parents.
What a ginormous whopping case of "do as I say, not as I do"!!!!
Hint: *Personal* responsibility means you can't just pay someone else to do it.
Timoclea
(As always, I exempt genuine cases of child criminals actually convicted in a court of law with due process serving a sentence with all their rights respected, and genuine cases of a mentally ill person who's an imminent danger of harm to self or others being temporarily hospitalized in a quality mental hospital to have his/her condition stabilized, and genuine cases of a person so permanently mentally impaired that he/she will need an assisted living arrangement for life, and genuine cases of substance *addiction*--not casual abuse--where the child is receiving the *same* short course of rehab that adult addicts sign themselves in for.)
-
ACTUALLY, those Stories Are Real, Im the m7dt428 guy.The first one, I recognize as Max Slade, because i remember he came there the 30th, and went up to residency on the 85th day.His dads name is Dave Slade, and there from Ne Mexcico, and he owns a milliondolar company i think.Ive talked to him before, and told him he should take him out cause there's nothing really good comign out of it and EXPLAINED eveyrhting that was happened but i guess they convinvced him otherwhise
I dont remember the May 11 one(must be a female)
but i think the sept 19 one is a guy named Thomas Dobia im not sure.
Anyways these Stories ARE Real, written by the students themselves, and revised(not really just spelling errors) by Staff.These Are Written for graduation Day, which used to be every 3-4 months, but what I guesss is it is every month for all the students comin in.Anyways the Studentss probly are jsut writing that to get out, becasue if they dont they will get to be in bootcamp for 3 more months as stated in the contract(if they return to previous behavior they can attend basic traning for 3 more months for free).All the people named in those speeches are real, Im sure of that.
Who are posting these speeches?Post Some more :smile: :smile: id liek to hear.
[email protected]
-
im just bored now so ill post whayt i no
http://tlcprogram.com/showimages/23.jpg (http://tlcprogram.com/showimages/23.jpg)
joshua wilriams on the left, timothy farrignotn on the right, with an American Schools book on the couch.I believe this is on the 3rd floor built by the residents(i painted part of it)
http://tlcprogram.com/showimages/2.jpg (http://tlcprogram.com/showimages/2.jpg)
this picfutre was taken back in may 2003 when blake scroggins arrived.The 2 sargents r sargent atchison and sgt skidmore.
http://tlcprogram.com/showimages/29.jpg (http://tlcprogram.com/showimages/29.jpg)
this is during the kidder parade in october, i am actually there down the row but not visible
http://tlcprogram.com/showimages/26.jpg (http://tlcprogram.com/showimages/26.jpg)
this is the male residents room
http://tlcprogram.com/showimages/19.jpg (http://tlcprogram.com/showimages/19.jpg)
timothety farrignton with Family Rep Jim Gray, Former Drill Sgt.
-
Scotty now has Alzheimer's, poor thing, and he probably can't beam Willa back up. Too bad.
-
On 2004-07-23 23:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Scotty now has Alzheimer's, poor thing, and he probably can't beam Willa back up. Too bad."
who? what?
-
On 2004-07-21 13:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Why does her college have no record of her degree?
As a matter of fact there is no record of her anywhere.
Did someone beam her down? Hey Scottie where are you when you are needed?"
Poor Scotty has Alzheimers and probably doesn't remember how to beam her back up!
-
whos scottie
-
I went to Thayer Learning Center(TLC) for 13 months and it was the biggest scam my parents have ever invested there money into. Kids get abused every single day at TLC. They are choked,slammed, headbutted......etc... The Bundy's are very fake people and they do not love anyone they tell you they do but it is not very hard to see through there fake deceitful eyes, especially Willa Bundy. I went through the full program, and I changed my lifestyle simply because I knew it was right and I had all along I just never made the decision to, but Thayer didn't help at all the only thing thayer was after was keeping me at the school as long as possible so they could suck the money out of my parents. Seriously people this program is very crewl and it needs to be stopped I hope that my advice will help. Thanks MS
-
Thayer is not a good place I am telling you it is the worst place you could ever imagine. I have nightmares of TLC and how much I never ever want to see those people again. It will phsychologically damage you for a long long time and will be extremely hard to get over.
THANKS MS :flame:
-
Have you reported your experience with Thayer to Isaacorp?
Hopefully if enough former students band together Thayer and other gulag schools will be easier to shut down. [ This Message was edited by: veryconcernedparty2004 on 2004-08-10 17:54 ]
-
My son just left Thayer. Everything bad you have heard about it is true and more. Someone has to stop these people.
-
On 2004-08-14 20:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My son just left Thayer. Everything bad you have heard about it is true and more. Someone has to stop these people."
Have you contacted http://www.isaccorp.com/index.html (http://www.isaccorp.com/index.html)? If you haven't, please contact them. Unless people publicly speak out, this abuse will continue.
-
I've been there. It doesn't happen! There is not any kind of abuse going on at this school. These are good Christian people that run the school. They love the kids and the KIDS LOVE THEM!! This school has changed countless lives for the better. Unfortunately, there are those that it hasn't helped. They don't sleep on concrete floors during boot camp---try a mattress pad and sleeping bag. Sure, it's no four poster bed...the point of the program is to lose privileges and learn respect. This is done in a loving manner without brainwashing...they want the kids to think for themselves, but also to weigh the consequences for poor decisions..., but they are able to successfully modify behavior!! They are fully credited! They do have certified teachers and professionals there. So what if it is family operated....the family has chosen to give of their time (which is most of it) to helping kids in need. You can ask any kid out there, and they will tell you how much they appreciate and love John and Willa Bundy. They are changing lives positively while showing the benefits of living a Christian life-style. They have nightly devotions and pray at meals. They respect everyone's religion and don't push it on you, but they also show that God is always with you through good or bad. They are wonderful Christians whom I have been blessed to have met. I thank them for their diligence in helping our forgotten teens who are losing their way in our immoral environment these days. I commend them on their belief that these aren't bad kids..."They are just good kids making poor decisions."
-
Thanks for the information. Tell me please why are telephone calls monitored and letters from parents read before the child sees them? I can understand not wanting to give a child an upsetting letter, however, not letting a child and parent talk on the phone without someone listening is not terribly Christian to me - it smacks of Nazi-ism. Am I to assume YOUR Jesus (or religion) condons spying and censorship?
-
Hey,
I am thinking of sending my son to TLC. Would you please call me to tell me more about it? My name is Alex Stern and my number is 602-274-1414. I would really appreciate it.
Sincerely,
Alex Stern
-
hey,
my brother is in TLC and I am trying to get all negative information on the school to be able to convince my parents to get him out of there. Can you please email me more info at [email protected].
Much appreciated.
Is the program abusive?
-
On 2004-08-18 23:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hey,
I am thinking of sending my son to TLC. Would you please call me to tell me more about it? My name is Alex Stern and my number is 602-274-1414. I would really appreciate it.
Sincerely,
Alex Stern"
:exclaim: :exclaim:
-
I SAW ZOMBIES NOT HAPPY KIDS! THEY DID LOOK HEALTHY, BUT, NOT A SMILE. THE OPERATORS ARE TOO
NON-VERBAL. :???:
-
A WEEK OF TLC SHOULD TEACH A CHILD WHAT PRISON LIFE WILL BE LIKE. :eek:
-
This is either a sufferer or split personality or this is a troll. If anyone responds to him/her/them, just be sure you state as fact only what is fact and your opinion clearly as your opinion. Otherwise, you might wind up being sued.
BTW, anyone ever notice any similarities between $cientology's Dead Agenting or Fair Game tactics and those often practiced by the Mormon Gods??
http://clambake.org/cb-faq.html#comm (http://clambake.org/cb-faq.html#comm)
Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? ... If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?
-- Patrick Henry
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
-
Does anyone have anything descent to say about this "nice christian fundamentalists, I mean people"?
-
:skull: Do not send your child to TLC. Beware. If you choose to sent your child to Thayer, have them put a code word in thier letter to let you know they need out. The mail is checked, :skull:
-
I am not here to dog on Thayer, I am just here to say hello, and more then that to a special lady from Thayer who I miss very much. I wish you the best life can give. A former worker of TLC. Your #1 Teacher. This is for the May 11th girl.[ This Message was edited by: teach#1 on 2004-08-26 21:03 ]
-
On 2004-08-26 20:55:00, teach#1 wrote:
"I am not here to dog on Thayer, I am just here to say hello, and more then that to a special lady from Thayer who I miss very much. I wish you the best life can give. A former worker of TLC. Your #1 Teacher. This is for the May 11th girl.[ This Message was edited by: teach#1 on 2004-08-26 21:03 ]"
It seems as if you had a decent experience, at least with one of the instructors. Can you tell us if there are teachers there on-site and how long you were at Thayer (three months, six months, etc.) best of luck with your future.
-
On 2004-08-19 16:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Does anyone have anything descent to say about this "nice christian fundamentalists, I mean people"?
"
My parents are christian fundamentalists. Church of Christ, in fact. My dad's retirement job is being the preacher at the local country church.
My parents are nice people. Genuinely good folks. As are my sisters and their families, in the same denomination.
There are a lot of Christians who are good people, who don't send their kids off to religious thought-reform school for trivial reasons, and who don't treat people of other faiths badly.
I would say that *most* Christians, including those in the more fundamentalist denominations, are nice people. Every group has its jerks. There are a whole lot of Christians in the US, so just by simple statistics, you run into jerks who are Christians more often than you run into jerks who are, say, Buddhist or Jewish.
Timoclea
-
The only christians I have a problem with are the ones who put down women or scrwe up their kids with constant shaming and fear. Especially normal adolescent stuff like masturbating or getting moody.
Hell I've heard of girls being punished for mensturating. feh
-
I worked at Thayer for over 6 months, during that period of time, there was only one certified teacher, and he wasn't teaching anything. When he found time, he was helpful to students doing schooling.
-
BTW, anyone ever notice any similarities between $cientology's Dead Agenting or Fair Game tactics and those often practiced by the Mormon Gods??
~Well, I don't know. But this sounds a lot like "someone" I'm familiar with . . .
"What I have against CoS is its deceitfulness,. . .
...its aggressive hard sell, its arrogance, its attack on free speech, its litigiousness, its harassment of its critics, its lack of concern for families, its gross neglect and abuse of children, etc. "
~Can you explain Dead Agenting? Fair Game Tactics?
-
On 2004-08-18 23:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hey,
I am thinking of sending my son to TLC. Would you please call me to tell me more about it? My name is Alex Stern and my number is 602-274-1414. I would really appreciate it.
Sincerely,
Alex Stern"
Dimitri Rozenman
5303 N 7th ST
Phoenix AZ 85014
(602) 274-1414
Est. Home Value:
$150,000 - $174,999
Years at Address:
2
Est. Household Income:
$61,000 - $100,000
Dwelling Type:
Apt. or Condo
:roll:
-
On 2004-08-28 18:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
~Can you explain Dead Agenting? Fair Game Tactics?
Sure. Here's some info. on what Fair Game means in clam parlance:
http://www.suppressiveperson.org/fair_game/index.html (http://www.suppressiveperson.org/fair_game/index.html)
Essentially, dead agenting consists of a series of ad hominem attacks, threats and other forms of intimidation.
And here are a couple of examples:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=50#42536 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=4048&forum=1&start=50#42536)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#34091 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=4280&forum=9&start=0#34091)
Being that these fora focus on cults and cultish organizations, virtually endless examples of dead agenting can be found throughout. The fatal pedagogical error is to throw answers, like stones, at the heads of those who have not yet asked the questions.
Paul Tillich
-
I have son at Thayer Learning Center. As such, I am always on the web looking at what others have to say. When I read other's comments, I never find much (if anything) positive. So, this post is my opportunity to add my experiences to the general body of knowledge about Thayer on the internet.
I have met with my son privately away from Thayer so I have a good idea of the program's pluses and minuses.
As with any discussion of a teen's problems, context is everything. Much to my surprise (sound familiar parents?) , I one day discovered that my very bright IQ-wise son was engaged in some very destructive behavior: using hard drugs, selling same, carrying a gun and naturally, failing out of school. I found Thayer through one of the zillion websites connected to the Bundy's. I had about 3 hrs. to make up my mind, call Teen Transport and send him on his way. I spend more time planning vacations -- a sad but true comment for any parent to make. I rated my son's life expectancy on the streets, where he had run off to, in months, if not weeks.
So, here is what I have learned:
1) Thayer is the end of the road; the last stop for teens before prison. It is ONLY for the real tough nuts, the junior gangsters.
2) Thayer is not harsh, it is severe. Again, your teen's context is key. Severe is good if the alternative is emanate incarceration or death on the streets. You need to believe this is your teen's situation before you select Thayer. Sending a kid to Thayer need be your LAST CHOICE. My son told me what a mistake some parents make when they send their teen to Thayer after catching him with a few beers and failing grades. Thayer is not for the nice teen who has temporarily lost his way. There are other schools for him.
3) My son treated therapists & counselors as toys; Mom and Dad's jokes to be played with and manipulated. When therapy & counselors fail, then Thayer may be all that is left between your teen and a life of crime. That was our situation.
4) Thayer is not a therapeutic environment as the term is generally used. There is no "Canine Therapy", no touchy-feelie-feel-good sessions with counselors. Again, if your teen can be saved through a therapeutic environment, then he or she does not belong at Thayer.
5) What Thayer is, is this:
a) More discipline than military boot camp. Let me give you an example: If a teen is sick and vomiting, then he is given a bucket to carry around to heave into and sent off on a day's drill. You really have to be sick to see a doctor.
b) Extreme accountability for one's choices and actions.
c) Instant punishment for mistakes, errors and failure to follow the rules.
d) The out of control teen instantly finds himself in a situation where he has no control any more; other than to submit to Thayer's rules.
e) Thayer operates on a system of credits which the teens manage via PCs. This gives them a taste or real life where they must "pay bills", use credits to get the things they want, e.g. home visits and other privileges. If the kids go "bankrupt" credit-wise, they go back to boot camp to earn more credits to go back into residency. I must say, my wife and I like this part very, very, much.
f) High school classes are available via a home schooling program. A real high school diploma from an accredited school in MO is the end result.
g) There is a progression from boot camp (no control, constant discipline, no talking unless spoken to by a drill sergeant and lots and lots of physical exercise); to residency (opportunity to learn, less discipline) up through senior residency and junior staff. At each level the teen must earn the right to be there by correct behavior.
The emphasis here is to break the teen down, give him a sense of extreme discipline and build him back up. All I know is that it is working for my son.
By the way, my family is not religious in the slightest. From what I can tell Thayer is a Mormon operation -- which I could care less about.
My wife and I did visit Thayer and took a tour. I carefully looked into the eyes of all Thayer people I met. What is saw was people who want to help very, very troubled teens.
In summary, I must admit that I don't know anything about the Bundy's. I did not know anything about Thayer until a few hours after I sent my son off. I do know that he most likely would be dead now if he were still on the streets (an assessment he shares) or in jail on drug dealing charges. I do know that Thayer has completely turned by son around. And, I am keeping him there for the full year. He knows, understands and accepts this.
My formerly overweight and unathletic son is not strong, muscular, proud of his body and very happy about being in good physical shape.
When my son and I met privately (away from Thayer and any Thayer people) he hugged and thanked me for saving his life -- and told me he hates Thayer, hates the constant control and discipline, hates the food (although it seems OK to me), can't stand the constant monitoring, understands why he is there and can't wait to graduate from Thayer and move on to college.
Thayer is working for our family.
If anyone wants to reach me via e-mail, I am at [email protected].
-
I have no personal experience with Thayer. My experience was with WWASP. Seems they have a connection with the Bundy's; and it seems the Bundys are running a program on the wwasp model.
All I know is what I have heard from others, and I base my opinion on this alone.
I wanted to suggest you take a look at a what ISAC has put together on this subject. It might help with the big picture.
I am glad your son seems to be doing better - apparently healthy. That is good news. I'm not trying to be a smart ass with this; but do be aware that the fall out from this experience could be pretty sever. You can't say how well a program "worked" until the "student" has been out for awhile. PTSD is common in people who have been threw situation such as Thayer and WWASP. You might want to be sure to save enough to help him get the appropriate therapy for PTSD; Just in case. If after his release, he falls apart, please don't write him off; even if it is five years later - as it might be. Look into this possibility and help him recover. Meanwhile, research PTSD. Learn what you can about it; b/c otherwise, you might not recognize what is happening. Patients are sometimes diagnosed as Psychotic or Bi Polar or adicts - when it is in fact PTSD. And its important to get it right, b/c PTSD is highly treatable and the medications, if any, very different than with what it is often confused for.
http://www.isaccorp.com/thayer.html (http://www.isaccorp.com/thayer.html)
-
a) More discipline than military boot camp. Let me give you an example: If a teen is sick and vomiting, then he is given a bucket to carry around to heave into and sent off on a day's drill. You really have to be sick to see a doctor.
The emphasis here is to break the teen down, give him a sense of extreme discipline and build him back up.
What you call discipline is what the rest of the world calls abuse. This is the kind of thing that killed Nick Contreraz. What makes you think such cruelty will solve any of your son's problems? That's assuming he has any, other than having a psychopath as a parent.
All I know is that it is working for my son.
In what sense working? Because it has broken him down? Because he is learning to be subservient? What makes you think he will ever talk to you again once he becomes an adult?
-
I had somehow missed this:
a) More discipline than military boot camp. Let me give you an example: If a teen is sick and vomiting, then he is given a bucket to carry around to heave into and sent off on a day's drill. You really have to be sick to see a doctor.
Kiwi is right. This has killed kids - not just Nick Contreraz.
I think we can count Aaron Bacon in this. Omar Paisley. Michelle Sutton. No telling how many.
http://www.nospank.net/azboys.htm (http://www.nospank.net/azboys.htm)
http://www.nospank.net/bacon2.htm (http://www.nospank.net/bacon2.htm)
http://www.nospank.net/paisley.htm (http://www.nospank.net/paisley.htm)
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.c ... utton.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/RememberingMichelleSutton.html)
-
I understand that Thayer is working for you and I am happy that your child is doing better, but I have great knowledge on how the program works.
You are exactly right, if and only if every employee knows what they are doing. Thayer has a very large turn-over rate and that makes it hard to keep everyone on the same page.
The program is set up wonderfully and will work that way I hope sometime, so long as dictators are present everyday, not just Mon-Thurs, and off and on.
I have hope for the program and the few people who work there that actully care.
-
when were you there?
-
I was there in the spring of 2003 all the way to Christmas.
-
The anonymous parent on page 12 who condoned the abuse of his child started a new thread at:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=9#60020 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6501&forum=9#60020)
-
Sorry you were there at all. I hope your life is a better one now, it doesnt matter if the reason it is better is thayer or you. I am looking for anyone that has been there in the past 5 months. Take care and carry on
-
Iwas there up until about a month ago for about nine months. That place is so poorly run i lived in pathetic overcrowded conditions very little of the employees there have ever had military training or counseler training for that matter most employees are barely older than me. I have freinds who are probably still there they choked one of my freinds out and smashed his face into the concrete (broken teeth)for not exercising, he didn't fight back didn't antagonize etc. then they made him face a corner for a little over a month!!!!!!!!!! they told us the key word in PASSIVE resistance was resistance!!! similiar incidents happen regularly!!!!!!!!!!!
-
I was in that program ... this is how the owners can get away with promoting there program on every sight about parenthelp. John bundy owns parent help, his wife owns Thayer learning center (technically) although while I was there Mr Bundy ran the program just as much as Mr Bundy. Oh and the parent help center is about a ten minute drive from that place in the same office the program handles all it's financial work etc.
-
I think I know the person you are talking about.
They payed to have his tooth fixed right? Is he still there?
-
I wasn't actually in the program, I worked at Thayer, so I know more about the truth and how the program works.
I am not saying that Thayer is all bad, I believe they have good intensions, but their program hardly ever works as planned.
I would say that kids in the program are mistreated, but honestly I have never seen anyone just beat a child, atleast not when I was around.
The worst thing to me, is the lack of medical treatment. Even a person in jail has more rights to see a doctor then a child in Thayer.
There were times when 5 kids or more had pink eye and instead of sending each to the doctor they would use the same medication. I was a sargent and they expected me to distribute the meds and I refused to give someone meds that belonged to someone else. Im not saying that happend all the time, but on weekends when there was no one to take the kids, that is what we were told to do.
I personally would never send a child to Thayer. I believe all problems start at home for whatever the reason, and I would fix them at home. I know that isn't always possible, but to me, Thayer would not be an option.
The kids are emotionally stressed and have serious problems and at times, (most of the time) have no one to talk to. A family Rep might see a child once every two weeks, that is if they are behaving.
I learned a lot from working at Thayer and I am very glad I am no longer there.
-
I worked there too. When were you there?
-
I was at Thayer from Spring of 2003 until right before Christmas
-
Do you know Kenyan? Or Windle?
-
I was there from fall 2002 until winter2002/spring2003, when the program first started.I got in contact with a few people who graduated the program and they said it got a lot "softer" but "lengthier".After 2 weeks when I was there, you could be a resident...
I heard from one of my friends there that Sargent Lollar became a Drill Sargent then was crying one day and left and the cadets never saw him again, is that true?
I also heard "George" got sent back after he left and he died in August last year :scared:
I also heard that fat kid Olson became a sargent and is still there :scared: !I know they did before when I was there, we were cleaning somewhere I forget but it wasnt at Thayer, but they didnt get caught.So how did they get caught that time?
Also I heard that some guy named Marshall(who I heard completed the program 75% faster than regular :scared:
O.K. thats enough for now, Ill ask a few more later.
BTW B.W. (his initials)(my friend who told me all this) or anyone who knows him , can you tell him to call me :cry:
-
Now becomming a resident takes alot longer, some kids have been in bootcamp for 4-6 months.
None of those people are still there. There is a new man running the place now, it was in the news paper and they are doing alot of reconstruction. A friend of mine works there, alot of people have been fired since this new guy came. They have a woman Drill Sergeant. The program is more intense now but the conditions are still the same. No medical treatment when needed. Junior Staff now works with bootcamp and can smoke them when they see a need. They also take notes on the sergeants to give to the directors. Kids watching Kids not a good idea. You know how vendictive and mean Kids can be. All bootcampers cant wait to become residents to come smoke the one person they couldnt stand in bootcamp.
I can see where a program like this would work but it would have to be consistant, there should be no difference from one Sergeant to the next, like the militaty. They must be making good money they are remodeling and building a new building. Its sad to think that parents cant handle thier own children and have to resort to this. I would like to know what the mental problems are that surface after going through something like this. Was there a kid there named Slade when you were there? He is back, he came back and went right into Jr. Staff.
-
I recognize the names, but I don't know them. Were they sent by the Bundy family to work? I left before christmas.
As for the writer with all the questions, George did leave the program and died from a four-wheeler accident. Humphries did run with two other cadets, one was Slade and the other I can't remember. He was a resident when that happened.
Last I knew Olsen was working as a sargent, but I believe he is older then 16. I have no idea about the Greenleaf sex story and as for Marshall, I don't think he flirted with a sargent but if he did, the sargent with the last name "B" would be Burns.
-
Slade graduated the program and went home for a month then was sent back by family. I understand he is ms. willa's boy, i guess he tells her things that happen. what hasppened to mr. jake is he no longer there? who is the new man in charge is he family,too? how many kids are there now? anyone remember davis or mfadden?
-
hey , I just found this site, I got out in september(last year), after being there since march.Whatever happened to the sargent major dude?his name was douglas hammock I think.When he first came everyone was hypin him up and stuff, but I left about the same time he came.I dont think Slade is Ms Willas boy, when I got sent back to bootcamp once we traded letters and let each other see what each others parents wrote, and i think his dads name was dave, and his mom was wendy.Why did he get sent back
Yeah George did die in an accident but thats all they told us,Didnt he die about a few days after he left?I remember George was always crying a few days before he left home.Most of us in Residency thought he commited suicide, because of the way he was acting before he left.
I dont think Greenleaf and Shokrin got caught in the "Act" but I remember being told that one of the junior staff woke up and shokrin wasnt there so the junior staff asked security to find him, and then ...I dont know, I heard that Shokrin denied it , but greenleaf told the truth so greenleaf got sent down to residency for a day then got sent back up to junior staff.I remember all the residents went down to bootcamp and I did too with them, it was only about 2 weeks after I moved up, so Shrokin was down with us then we all moved up to residency and he then grauduated.
It was talked about that eveyrthing was planned (residency, junior staff) because one of the peope down in bootcamp got a letter from his girlfriend sayin he would be in residency on a certain date, but it was marked out, but he saw through it lol, and sure enough he did move up then.I heard from another person that overheard a sargent talking about humphries becoming junior staff, well did he?Why did he run away?I would of been talking to alot of people from thayer, but my list of numbers I got written down got lost when I left Thayer.
Whatever happened to that guy Bakerly/Diarbakerly he was funny lol.He asked his parents could he go home and finish his school at home(you could get it done much faster at home, at thayer they make you do the self check tests, and you have to wait for a sargent to check it, while he has to check all the other 20 kids exams, basically your not going to fail because the sargent will tell you what questions you got wrong, and if you keep getting it wrong he will eventually tell you)Also he stole alot of muffins, and got alot of fines lol.
Is Sargent Atchison still there?He was one of my favorite sargents.I remember him talking about he had been their the longest out of the all the sargents.Did he go back to being a drill sargent in bootcamp?What happened to sargent sperry?How about sargent quinn, and sargent andrews.And how about avriatte, prindle, that mexican one that sargent atchison brought in?
Did clay really get sent to bootcamp in mexico where u sleep on a hill so you wake up with a headache?
To the person with the question about lollar, he basically left because thayer hired sargent major, he and his sister left.
Is Ms Jamie still working there?
Why did they lenghten the time becoming a resident?They already lengtehned it from 60 days to 90 days when I was there.When I was leaving I heard that bootcamp would no longer see the residents, like during "chow" etc, how did all that work out?
Why are they doing reconstruction again?
How did the classroom turn out that we painted?
How are the smoke sessions and parties there now?I remember the Atchison and Jensen one, where bootcamp ran about 70 laps, and had to do bearcrawls and pushups between each 10.At the end of it they all had to run a lap with everyone in line and no one falling behind.That took for ever lol.
How is that Barekman kid doing?I remember him gettin picked on all the time for pissin his pants lol.Did he ever become Junior Staff?
Did that kid Rosario ever lose weight lol?I remmeber when he got into residency he was still about 200 pounds lol.
There arent any real mental problems that surface, the program is easy really if you are in good shape, the only thing that makes a kid bad mentally is really al the sargents screamin at ya and shit.I just brushed that off and never really cared about it, but some kids always cried and couldnt get over some things.
What happened to Mathis, Villagas,Donaldson,Wentner,Desi,Walkenhaur,Mitchell,Olshansky,Farrington,Douglas,Centofante,Rutherford,Banks,Matthews,Humbleball.And that NBA Players son I think his name was Williams.
Who are all you people and how do you know all this, it seems like some of you people currently work there or were you "students" there?
For anyone who remmebers me Im Grundler I was there from March until September last year
-
ms. jamie is gone so is atchison, jensen. all new faces. avreatte went to the office to work. sperry is still there he has something to do with the jobs Jr staff does. barekman is jr staff,so is waulkenhaur and rutherford. the guy williams went home, i was there for short time but dont want to go back. some sargents were ok others really mean. i knew this kid that pissed his apnts every night and one that pissed in his bin. the food was awful most of the time and i hate wheat we found alot of bugs in it.
-
I remmeber the kid that pissed in his bin, he was there when I was there right (march to september last year), he was on Bravo team right?Shouldnt barekman and walkenhaur have already gone home?When i was there it took 9 months to 12 months to finish the program, how long does it take now?
-
it depends on how often you get sent back to bootcamp,how long you will be there. and you have to have all your school work done.
-
Did anyone listen to Annie Armen tonight. Ex TLC staff, Tim Rocha; as well as Shelby Earnshaw from ISAC and a british mom who pulled her son from Tranquility Bay this morning after an announced visit.
Go to the archives and select the Family Hub program.
1. This Thursday Evening, September 09, 2004 @ 5pm Pacific Standard Time: PREMIERE of Family Hub Series - Part 1:
Parental Discretion is Advised.
Topic: Behavior Modification Programs - What you DON'T know!
http://www.worldtalkradio.com/archive.asp?aid=2259 (http://www.worldtalkradio.com/archive.asp?aid=2259)
Parents, this is definitely the program for you. Tune in today and find out the truth about what really occurs in behavior modification programs,
boot camps, wilderness camps, and drug rehabs. Can such facilities be considered as cults, and/or involved in cult-like activities?
What ?treatments? are really being offered at these centers? Are your children being ?treated? or ?abused??
Do children commit suicide while / after going through the ?treatments? offered in these programs?
You are invited to join Annie Armen together with special guests Shelby Earnshaw, national director of ISAC Corporation http://www.isaccorp.org (http://www.isaccorp.org)
and child advocate Tim Rocha, and UNITED, let's STOP the silence within and STOP the abuse throughout!
This show is sponsored in part by ISAC Corporation.
Check out ISAC's New Company Distinguished Guest Page on Annie Armen Live by visiting http://www.worldtalkradio.com/guests.asp?sid=97 (http://www.worldtalkradio.com/guests.asp?sid=97).
-
http://apps.northwestmissouri.com/Clien ... ubcode=HMA (http://apps.northwestmissouri.com/ClientServices/DisplayNews.asp?showfilename=62184&pubcode=HMA)
is that the article you saw in the newspaper?
-
no,but it was like this one
-
My child was at Thayer and we did not earn a family visit. It was always something - stealing a muffin from the kitchen during cleanup because he was hungry was one reason. Yea, and the certified teachers - what a joke! And they really care about the kids - more like they care about the greenbacks - not the kids. Even the kids that have stayed there say its nothing but brainwashing and a scam to take parents money. It didn't take long for my son to see through it. The parents are lied to about things like "tell you parents your school books are here", tell your parents you are getting along with the schoolwork. Save your money - go to counseling. I think the Court system is a better choice than Thayer!
-
Parent Help is owned by the same people that own Thayer - very unbiased opinion you will get from Parent Help
-
Parents pull the kids out because they are lied to and the children don't get the family visit - always a different excuse and $3500 a month is a high price with no education provided. What a joke -- they are in it for the money.
-
They help the kids get to college? With one history teacher? How does that work?
-
And what was the price you paid for your daughter getting alot out of the program? I guess your daughter finished the entire program. Yea right!
-
What bothers me is that you say off-site visit with your son. All family visits are off-site. How long did you have to wait for your family visit - was it the advertised and publicized time span of 60-90 days. Oh, wait, they changed that 60-90 days to 90-120 days didn't they.
-
Maybe you should ask yourself why so high a turnover? Thayer's turn is that they want only the best people employed. Past employee's turn on this is the Bundy's are scammers and the kids are told to lie to their parents and cannot talk freely with their parents. You are told you can't believe anything your child tells you - that's why they are enrolled at Thayer? Sound familiar?
-
bakerly?Baines?
-
:???: :???:
-
I think this topic is related to string about employees or students whose names start with "B" Try looking at page 14 if anyone is confused.
What do the poor kids who are at TLC do during the hot summer. Do they still go outside in the Missouri heat? Is there any air conditioning?
-
there is air and the outside activities are cut to a minimum when the weather is to hot, then you drink more water. unless the drill sergeant is mean then you go out anyway and just sweat and roll in the sand they have for exercise, also for the cats to use . ring worm is a big concern. It is not a good place if parents only knew what they did to the kids there. giung to prison is better than thayer, at least therte you have rights at thayer you dont and you are punished into going along with whatever they say. blind obiedence
-
How many teachers are there at Thayer and how many students per teacher? Do you know how they determine what grade level you are in? Do they teach math, science, history etc. How hard are the courses and can you go on to college with the education they provide you.
-
There are no teachers at thayer. One who acts as a sargent/family rep. The kids are given text books that their parents buy and they are expected to learn on their own. The only guidence they have are other students helping them if allowed or the one sargent per 20 or more kids. The schooling is a joke and it dosn't prepare you for college. In the past there has been a principal, but the turn over rate for that place is so high, I wouldn't be surprized if he is gone. . The child is better off sitting at home with their parents teaching them out of the same text.
-
I don't understand your comment about "related to string about employees or students who's name starts with "B"" I don't understand. The topic above was Baines and Bakerly, and the question from page 14 was dealing with a student flirting with a sargent. Baines and Bakerly were students.
-
On 2004-09-24 08:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
In the past there has been a principal, but the turn over rate for that place is so high, "
Are you talking about the one that had combed back hair that was a little gray, and had a full beard and glasses?The one that usually worked with the residents?I rememeber when he caught walkenhauer(pictured on the official TLC site) cheating and he got a big 100$ fine :scared: .I was told he didnt work there by another resident, but thats all he knew(to my recollection thats what he said).I cant exactly remember if the resident told me he got fired or he didnt work there anymore.If he did get fired it was because he got caught copying exams for practice for the students.He had me doing some 11th grade biology book, I stayed focused on that for a week, and got a C on most of the tests, but the sargent corrected everything for me , so I memorized everything that was wrong , knowing Id probably take the same course later.I sure did and I got an A :wink:
The thing I said about Bakerly/Baines was, Bakerly got caught stealing muffins, and got a big fine for it, among other things, such as taking to long to eat, and cheating, and laughing about it.Also I heard that Baines a few months ago went crazy and stole everything in the kitchen and stuffed it in his pants lol.I just thought that parent was either Bakerly's or Baine's :wink: .
Also by the above posters response^^^, I see WERE, I assumed they have gotten out?I knew Baines was there until he finished school, and so was Bakerly, but it was taking them a long time.When did they get out, and did either make it to Jr. Staff?
-
Thanks for the info about the teaching situation.
-
i was told that in winter they were made go outside and exercise in the snow, without coats or gloves and shoes, more than one said this so I think it was true. they said their feet and hands were blue when they were let return to the building.
-
Sorry about the B's. My error and I apologize![ This Message was edited by: veryconcernedparty2004 on 2004-09-26 00:11 ]
-
the bundy family does own thayer i can promise u that
-
american schools is a correspondence sixteen credit diploma high school which accredits thayer learning center. it is a real school but will not prepare u for college. i can answer almost any questions about tlc bootcamp. i have expeirenced it
-
yes many students get fungus infections such as yeast infections, ring worm and athletes foot. they are not allowed to take medication even if their parents want them to unless the person in charge of medication approves it. a lot of things go untreated because she doesnt really know what she is doing though claims to be an emt
-
yes it is true. sometimes they go outside and run on the sand track with only sandles on or no shoes at all and have to run on the sand with only socks on. there is rusty nails and gravel and metal and animal feces on the sand track.it is a disgustng school. no matter how much cleaning they do a day, it'll still be disgustingly dirty
-
bakerly was pulled out or kicked out around dec 2003 to feb 2004. baines made it to junior staff right before thanksgiving 2003 and in dec a little more then 2 weeks after, all the junior staff were fired for watching a movie in the lounge without adult supervision. he gave up and was put in x ray a severe "retraining" which ms willa mr bundy and mr jake/drill sgt bundy made up for students they did not like. we were treated like animals/machines in there sometimes bearcrawling on the frozen sand with no gloves on until we had no feeling in our hands and they were bloody especially our knuckles and the palms of our hands. if we were not in uniform, we could not wear out gloves/sweatshirts/shoes/beanies/etc
-
to my knowledge, kenyon is still at tlc, windle father came and picked him up a few weeks age
-
slade humphries dewoody and estevez were the ones that ramaway. dewoody made it up to junior staff, got fired for having sex with v. johnson and lying about and it and walked out the next day b/c he turned 18. slade came back 3 wks after he graduated, was in bootcamp for like 3 days and just recently gaot put into isolation for stealing something. i have a friend/sergeant who works there and emails me all the info on what is going on there. they are worried they will get fired soon but many others with similiar purposes are applying. would probably get hired even if they had no education. ill answer questions about the ones i know. villegas and olshansky were jr staff but went home and same with wentner and hummblebaugh, farrington graduated and so did j. williams and dahlman and blair and morris. morris came back to be a sgt and married sgt aitchison. he is 28 and she is 18. shes also mormon now and aitchison doesnt work there any more he was director of bootcamp when he left. morris is supposedly going to college now. rutherford is still at tlc he is a senior resident
-
woah thats crazy :eek: .How about walkenhauer?how about rosario?I thought Aitchison was married already?How'd he get involved with Morris?Is matthews still there?Geller?
-
hows the girl that was working with morris in junior stafff last year around this time.I forgot her name, but her brother came in to around this time last year, and he told us he was leaving in december with his sister when she graudated.The girl had blonde hair, and her brother was like 12 years old.
-
The girls name was ashley axton, I believe.
-
whats going on at thayer, why have they quit the construction and why are they letting sergeants go-everyone i knew that worked there has been let go without any reason-they say they are called in and let go-when ask why they are told they dont have to have a reason. Is it because they are not Morman? maybe not mean enough. i know they are going to start writting up sgts that allow anyone but the team leaders to talk to them. glad to hear windle is out of there, i knew him, he was ok. kenyan i knew alittle and he seemed to smart for his own good. there was a girl there, her last name was brown, what ever happened to her? the last i heard she was put in residency then moved back to bootcamp.
-
brown is back in residency. things have changed alot. some jr staff say that they are mad that they went through all of the hard stuff and had all the bloody nuckles and stuff and now boot camp seems easy. boot camp got exercise alot for one week now they are back to being easy. Female residents are getting away with alot.
there is a new girl names carey who goes through the most because she is defiant
that is all i know
-
I cannot belive i saw this on the internet i just typed in my last name...i strarted balling my eyes out i miss you all to death, i cant belive that about slade he was my little buddy....i may be going this winter to work their during summber break, right now im at Norwich University..dont ask how i got here but its one of the top 4 ranked military colleges in the counrty and its alot different from t.l.c when i was their, i also cannot belive that about morris and atichenson, what happened to miss jamie and everyone else im calling mr.randy this sunday and going to talk to him about working their but if anyone remembers me reply to this forum i was their from june 22,2004 until febuary 27 2004 yah
i was their for awhile things seem like they really chaned well reply to this and it was amazing to hear from u guys also my name is john diarbakerly
-
and dont say anything about hard bootcamp to me i was an o.g and we went through the worst of you all, thanks drill seargent lollar and d.s grey ; )
-
after finding this site and reading all this stuff it sounds like thayer really isnt a bad place just going through some changes. sounds like they hire only the best people to work there. maybe it isnt so bad after all, maybe some of the ones that were there needed to be there and just hated the authority.
-
my cousin is there he said there is a new man who is getting alot of things done and its better than when one of his friends was there a year ago. he said the food was good and they give you alot to eat. even popcorn to watch a movie with. he likes the sergents, if you do what they say and follow the rules its good, the ones that dont make it worse for everyone else. he said the males have it better than the females because the females have a really hard sergent. this is all i know. he is home now and is doing great we are close again and i am glad that he got straightened out.
-
Does anybody else have this "yeah, right" reaction to these positive little blurbs from totally anonymous people that sound like ads for the place?
I don't doubt that there are some bratty teens in this world who could benefit greatly from growing up, but a place with no *meaningful* licensing, oversight, accountability, and transparency just doesn't seem like the place to actually get bratty teens to grow up *without* abusing them.
Timoclea
-
Uh, what I would like to ask anon is:
What are the sergents doing that the parents couldn't do at home? What methods are the sergents using to gain compliance?
-
On 2004-10-01 09:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I cannot belive i saw this on the internet i just typed in my last name...i strarted balling my eyes out i miss you all to death, i cant belive that about slade he was my little buddy....i may be going this winter to work their during summber break, right now im at Norwich University..dont ask how i got here but its one of the top 4 ranked military colleges in the counrty and its alot different from t.l.c when i was their, i also cannot belive that about morris and atichenson, what happened to miss jamie and everyone else im calling mr.randy this sunday and going to talk to him about working their but if anyone remembers me reply to this forum i was their from june 22,2004 until febuary 27 2004 yah
i was their for awhile things seem like they really chaned well reply to this and it was amazing to hear from u guys also my name is john diarbakerly"
i thoght u were going to that 1 in boston?
whatever happened to geller and did he gget skinny like wok-an-hour
-
most will behave when beaten, starved, or isolated into submission. the only place i have ever seen anything written favorably about the center is on the center's web site. HHHMMMMMM wonder why that is????
-
I am an EMT in Missouri. At no time while earning my EMT certification is it stated that I can dispense meds. They should have a certified RN or an LPN to pass out them out.
-
Discipline crosses line, critics say
By Matthew Franck
Of the Post-Dispatch
10/03/2004
KIDDER, Mo. - Desperation prompted Paula Marsteen and her husband to ship their defiant son, Michael, from their home in Phoenix to a teen boot camp in a remote corner of Missouri.
In the desperation of witnessing Michael's violent fits and uncontrollable behavior, Marsteen came to terms with her choice. She knew the boot camp would expose her son to a kind of discipline he never encountered. But she felt he needed to be broken down, to have his privileges and freedom stripped away.
So off Michael went to Thayer Learning Center Boot Camp and Boarding School in Kidder, and along with him the $4,000 monthly tuition the family raised by taking out a $30,000 loan.
Doubts lingered, but Marsteen stood by her decision, hoping that after weeks in the program Michael was going through a transformation.
Then came a phone call from a former school employee who warned the family that he believed Michael was being mistreated.
Within hours, Marsteen had crossed the country to reach her son. She found him in a small isolation room, where he said he had been kept for 11 days. "For all I knew he could have been dead in that little room," she said.
Marsteen and at least one other parent have removed their children from Thayer in the past several weeks following concerns about their treatment. A third parent pulled her son from the program in January.
The abuse allegations, which are being made by at least three former employees, range from prolonged isolation to medical neglect, from censored communication to excessive corporal discipline.
Yet Thayer Learning Center is thriving.
Some parents have ignored phone calls like the one Marsteen got. The program now enrolls about 100 youths and plans to double or even triple enrollment soon.
Kevin Mitchell, of Stow, Ohio, marvels at the turnaround in his son since he completed the program. "I'm still baffled," he said. "It has been miraculous."
Jerry Banks, who operates Thayer, said any controversy is the work of a few disgruntled employees. He said the boot camp had opened its doors to investigators who were following up on the abuse allegations. State officials will not speak about the status of any inquiry.
"If we are abusing children, we want to be investigated," Banks said. "But what's the definition of abuse?"
Thayer's success is a sign of the vitality of the teen reform industry in Missouri, where hundreds of young people from across the country are enrolled in at least a half-dozen programs.
Like Thayer, those programs have grown despite abuse allegations and, in a few cases, criminal charges. And like Thayer, the programs are almost entirely unregulated by the state.
Missouri law contains at least two provisions that allow certain programs for teens to run without a state license. The first excludes faith-based programs from state oversight, a provision that has made Missouri a haven for such ministries.
But Missouri also exempts child residential programs from regulations if they are connected to a school, as is the case with Thayer. Some believe Thayer is the first teen reform operation to make use of the school exemption in Missouri, signaling the entry of a new kind of teen industry to the state.
Similar programs have opened across the country, often in the West, where some states have few regulations of programs that operate as boarding schools.
Thayer's owners, John and Willa Bundy, opened the boot camp and school two years ago after relocating from Utah, where they had worked in that state's teen reform industry.
In months, the school was outgrowing its building at the site of the Kidder Institute, about 65 miles northeast of Kansas City. Construction crews are expanding the campus.
The meaning of "no"
Banks allowed a Post-Dispatch reporter a short visit to Thayer and was selective about which students could be interviewed. No photographer was allowed.
The program is based on a system of rewards and punishment, with a military-style hierarchy. The teens arrive with no privileges. They sleep at first in sleeping bags on a concrete floor; their days are a series of kitchen chores, yard work and exercises. They earn more freedom over time.
Thayer officials acknowledge using tactics the state would not allow at a licensed child residential program. They include:
Placing youths in isolation for days at a time. State licensed facilities can rarely isolate a child for more than 12 hours.
Strict controls on communication, with staff members screening incoming and outgoing mail and often requiring students to rewrite letters in which they complain about the program.
Denying academic instruction to teens who have not graduated from the boot camp program, which often takes more than three months to complete. Banks said Thayer teaches that school is a privilege.
Entrusting some youths to have authority over others once they have progressed in the program.
On Tuesday a teenage girl stood with her face to a gymnasium wall. A strap belted around her waist was held at the other end by another student. Banks said the punishment had lasted for three days and was preferable to the girl becoming a harm to herself or others.
Banks says he knows such tactics fly in the face of what some might consider acceptable. But he said the approach was effective, particularly in light of the alternative of having teenagers involved in crime and drugs.
"We have to do 15 years of teaching the meaning of 'no' in a year's time," he said.
Brittany Sherrod of Thomasville, Ga., completed the program this year and said she never witnessed abuse. She entered hating the restrictions but said she grew to understand them. "You learn that this program is helping you," she said.
At least three former employees say the boot camp often crosses the line between discipline and abuse.
Chris Kessinger said she worked at Thayer for seven months. Her job was to keep parents abreast of their child's progress. She said workers kept such strict control of students that many would urinate in their clothing because they were denied a bathroom break. She also says the school often denies medical treatment to youths with legitimate illnesses.
Kessinger and a former teacher at the school, Connie Szczepanik, say they called the state child abuse hot line in May to report their concerns. The two say they were fired, along with another whistle-blower, the next morning.
Another employee, Tim Rocha, worked at the school more recently and reports seeing similar incidents.
Rocha has since called parents directly with his concerns. Marsteen and another parent - Joanie Nations, of Henderson, Texas - responded within hours by removing their children.
Earlier in the year, Sheri Parker also pulled her son out of the program. Parker, a Texas resident, said that only when she visited the school did she learn that her son had been sick for much of his stay and had lost 30 pounds.
Support from town
Many in the town of Kidder say they doubt the allegations against Thayer. Dozens of Kidder's 300 residents work at the school, the largest employer in the area.
"There's too many people in town who would blow the whistle if something bad were going on," said R.L. Eaton, who delivers mail in Kidder.
Banks said the employees who are making claims against the school have grievances such as being passed over for promotion. He said the former workers had exploited the apprehension of parents, causing them to panic.
Mitchell, whose son spent eight months at Thayer, said he and his wife almost pulled him out after a former employee called to allege mistreatment.
At the time, Mitchell said, his son was new to the boot camp, and the parents were struggling over the restrictions placed on their communications, including censored mail.
"It was a big concern," he said. "We knew he could be in there and they could cover anything he says and we wouldn't know it."
But Mitchell said he decided to trust the school and its owners. Today, he said, his son has a 3.8 grade-point average at a military academy in South Carolina.
Meanwhile, Marsteen said her decision to pull Michael from Thayer has brought its own heartache, with her son again acting up.
"He's exactly how he was before," she said.
She says she has questioned her decision to take Michael out of Thayer, but she also feels she can't send him back.
The desperation has returned. And this time she has no idea where else she can turn.
Thayer's Web site is http://www.tlcprogram.com (http://www.tlcprogram.com)
Reporter Matthew Franck
E-mail: [email protected]
Phone: 573-635-6178
-
I left the program in bootcamp in a redshirt and im at Norwich University ( one of the best military schools in the nation) and i have a 3.4 g.p.a and in my old high school i got all f's, its all about wether or not your child realizes his mistakes, knows they were wrong and has found the will and desire to make the correct decisions in his life to succeed. It took me exactly 251 days at t.l.c to make my way home but somewhere in that time period i found my will and desire. I was the programs problem child at TLC and now am on the varisty lacroose team at a college school, get for the most part all A's and am very succesful at school bc of TLC and my family rep Mr.Riddle, but despite the path i chose, i recogmend keeping your child for the entire program no matter how long it takes
-
They also dont abuse kids, they may provide tough love but its neccessary for the child to realize their is no easy way out, i had to stand on my feet for 7 days bc i tried to run away, i ate in the corner and spent my entire day their it was miserable but i learned my lesson and it gave me time to think about what i have to do in order to succeed and get out of this place 231 days later i was home. They dont beat kids their or mistreat anyone, but their are concequences for bad actions, can you expect them to say its ok when someone fights or tries to run away. their are restrictions and when broken their are conceqences for the actions taken, its like that in real life and just occurs alot faster in t.l.c with in my mind alot less sever punishments, if i lied at my school about the simplist thing they would not hesitate to kick me out. think about that i g2g to class but i will finish this later
-
To the person who said they had to stand on their feet for 7 days because they tried to run away - but it is OK because it's "tough love". If a parent did that and the child called the authorities, it would be considered child abuse,period. While I am not a big one on spelling and grammar - I make my share of mistakes, the way the program is presented to the parents is that the child gets quality education. All the postings I have seen from former students usually aren't very well written. I hope you are doing well in your life now, but please, remember that what Thayer calls tough love is just plain abuse. Just because you don't hit someone doesn't mean they're not abused.
-
I am a recent graduate of the program and I just want to say, that towards the end of my program, I myself caught three kids that tried to run away. None of them were forced to stand on their feet for days on end. One of the programs main points that they try to drill into us is making a different choice. Well that wouldn't be possible with the abuse that is mentioned. I do agree with you though. Abuse does not mean someone was to be hit physically. Abuse can come in all sorts of other forms.
I agree with the other guy that posted talking about keeping kids through out the entire program. I think that is the only way to be able to see the full message of the program. I learned more in that last week of my program than I did in the month leading up to my graduation.
-
To the Anonymous poster that mentioned how he left the program early. What facility were you at? Because I was at Spring Creek, and there was a family rep that was there named Mr. Riddle. I was really close with him. I went to Spring Creek on March 31, 2003 and I graduated in May of 2004.
Email me at
[email protected]
or just post something, even if you didn't go to spring creek, where did u go?
-
the difference is that we wernt at home we were at a program, a program with intentions to mentally break us down and then build us back up in a positive way, that was my breaking point. Also dont point out my grammatical mistakes, i have classes to attend and homework to do. I respond to this forum between class and break so im constantly in a rush. Trust me their is no amount of push ups you can make someone do to change their state of mind, what did it for me was being put in isolation for a week and haveing that time to think about my actions. Its up to the individual to choose the correct path. Not a drill seargent yelling out commands. It gets alot more complicated than what i just stated but i honestly dont have the time to discuss. T.L.C staff are people who try to help teenagers, i did run into some bad people their i dont want to point anyone out but its a good place with good intentions even though the "wheat cereal" was nasty.
-
Torture and destruction of their psyche is not treatment.
You can call it a good intention to brainwash someone good but they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I hope they all reached their destination.
-
I agree with you. AMEN
-
there has to be a better way. Abuse is abuse whether it comes from a family member or a high payed program,abuse is abuse and this program is abusive, locking someone up alone in a room is abuse. making someone eat something they cant stomach is abuse, no matter how good you think its tastes. refusing medical treatment is against the geniva convention yet it happens here regullarly. withdrawing human touch from a new born causes problems yet here touch is not allowed. cutting off contact with everything you know has its problems yet here it happens. One boy lost a family member and was told to get over it, he was given no grieving time, had to carry on exercising-could you an adult handle that?
-
Where you a student at Thayer? If you were and are at home, you can always tell the outside world by reporting abuse to the press or going to issacorp.org and writing to them. If no one speaks about what is going on at Thayer, many more will be hurt. Going to the authorities -is never an easy or simple thing to do. But, please, if you've seen abuse, consider reporting it.
-
READ THIS
Well ill say one thing that is true about most kids and also applied to me, no psychological counseling was going to change me. I, like most teens at Thayer are quite the manipulators. I had a personality to fit every person and could have them doing what I wanted, including my parents. At Thayer I tried every trick in the book, trust me. And after ever situation or ?incident? I found myself in a red shirt. The only thing that would have helped me change my ways was going to Thayer. Being taken away from my negative environment (drugs, alcohol, friends), away from my parents who bailed me out of every situation, and left me on my own to succeed. There was no one who cared for anything I said except my family rep. The drill sergeants portrayed an act not to care, to make us believe there was no way out and no remorse. I knew that we meant something to them, especially the ones who stuck around, Avriette, Prindle, Aitcheson, Sperry, many sergeants came and left but there are only a few I remember and respect. D.S Lollar was was the most unforgettable and ran the most effective Boot camp at T.L.C. He was a fierce, disciplined and highly respectable man. Their was a sense of confidence about him that commanded everyone?s respect yet we dreaded his presence. I have written an English essay on him and I think it was a huge mistake of the school to let someone take over his boot camp. He is gone now and to those who knew him know what I mean. Anyways back to my point. Hence I was left of my own to succeed and change, with no help for anyone else. Most kids don't realize why they need to go to school or learn good values. I didn?t do anything in my life for myself (in the aspect working towards a better future); everything I did was because my parents wanted me to. What most of us have to realize is that what our parents make us to do is for our (the teenagers) benefit. I?m halfway through my freshman year at Norwich University; I have figured a lot of things out because of T.L.C but still have a whole lot more to comprehend. Maybe because I left the program early and didn?t graduate? I was their for 8 months but who knows. But right now I just got two of my mid term grades in and I have an A, B. I don?t do drugs or drink, I play a varsity NCAA sport, lacrosse. I do this all for me. Prior to T.L.C I was lucky if I got a C in high school, I spent my day doing drugs and drinking, I never went to class, and was skinny from cocaine and real out of shape. So don?t go saying negative things about the program, it?s a new place that is already VERY effective. Also the best advice I can give someone going to Thayer is ?Keep your mouth shut and do what your told?, the owners son told me that when he dropped me off. I was ignorant, and didn?t listen to him. They don?t just look to punish a student, but it a student is misbehaving he will be corrected in ways the school feels suitable. Anyways, some decisions I choose make my parents very unhappy but it?s not all about them. One thing that T.L.C emphasized allot was listening to your parents. If I did everything they tell me to do now I would be miserable. It?s a very complicated subject, there is no right or wrong answer but the child needs to do things for himself.
Basically what I am saying adds up to, if you get your child to realize he needs to succeed for himself, for his future, for his children then he will make positive choices. Because isn?t what every parents wants if for their child to be successful and happy?
- Bakerly
Im a psychology major so give me a break
-
I'm a psychology graduate, so give me a break. These programs have not been shown to be effective and if there were effects found, they would not be able to generalize for the long term, outside the establishment.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#63698 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6663&forum=9&start=20#63698)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#63699 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6663&forum=9&start=20#63699)
-
Hey Bakerly, I remember you a little bit.This is James Polka, I was there June to August last year.I found this site doing a search on DS Lollar.Why did he leave?I thought you were there just to finish your high school, you finished it all in 5 months (assuming because, bootcamp and all that other crap)?How long did it take you to make it to residency?Did you ever get to Junior Staff?How long did everyone who came in June last there?Donaldson,Rosario,Masud,Villegas,Farrington,Mathis,Barekman,Slade...
My brother was considering working there, but I wasnt sure if he could work there with onl JROTC experience.
-
hahaha polka i remember you..you were from new york... all those kids were their when i was also. I didnt make it to junior staff and i did real well my first time in bootcamp 85 days and team leader for like almost 40 days....i left feb 27 2004. How are you doing after life at t.l.c ? e mail me at [email protected]
-
Also i finished my school...i worked very hard and fast. Donaldson left the program his dad came and picked em up, rosario was their when i left hes was funny, masud got to go home but he wanted to stay lol, last i remember villegas was junior sfatt and the most mature of them all, farrington also was junior staff and was doing a good job, they were the only 2 junior staff not on a power trip, mathis also went home he also disliked t.l.c dispite his positive attitude, barekman was their when i left, i felt bad for him he had alot of family problems and it seemed as if they didnt care for him, he got like 4 letters in 6 months, slade...their is a post about where he is now, back at t.l.c. thats about it im in math class right now lol i g2g
-
Also despite what thayer says about being a wilderness program, we only went outside to clean or do physical training on the sand track. Hence the post you made has no relevence to thayer. Thayer is most along the lines of punishment for bad choices with either pushups of fines.
-
maybe man
-
If the school is such a great place then why are 14 year old kids dying. THis place is a dangerous place and parents should definitely think twice before placing their kid there. The contract that the parents sign hold the school liable for nothing even death. SO DON'T SEND YOUR KIDS THERE!!!!!! IF you have to send them to juvie, atleast it has some kind of governing regulations. PLEASE DON'T SEND THEM TO THAYER LEARNING CENTER!!!!!! :evil:
-
I have never heard of anyone dying physically at thayer, i thhink their soul dies a little from the mistreatment and abuse and withdrawal of human affection, to think your parents hate you so much as to send you to a place that doesnt allow them to contact you and they abuse you has to kill some level of human compassion.
-
It just happened the end of last week. Of course you are not going to hear about it. They are trying to push it under the rug. A fourteen year old boy died either Wednesday or Thursday of last week. THe school waited 5 mins. before they called the Caldwell County Dispatch. That was stated over the scanner lots of people heard it. "The boy has not been breathing for 5 minutes" They probably thought the kids was trying to manipulate them. The body has been sent to the coroner. I talked to one of the sherriffs deputys he said he couldn't say anything because there was an investigation. How many are we gonna let fall victim to these murderers in disguise.
-
What we need to do right now, is pray for the family of this poor child who has died at the hands of Thayer Learning Center. And do this poor kids death some justice by coming together and getting this place closed down. We need anyone (former employees, former students, parents, doctors who treated some of kids) anyone who has any information needs to speak up. These people need to pay for this not only civilly but also with criminal charges. Right now is the time to act if you have ever thought of coming forward with information or you have come forward already, make sure you are heard tell DFS, Government, Sherriffs Dept, anybody who will listen. Lets put a stop to this now before someone else dies. We already know of several kids who have been severely injured at the school and nothing was done. So lets please for the sake of this young childs' short lived life do something now.
:evil: :mad: :sad: :sad: :sad:
-
where do you go to get someone to listen? all reports about of abuse have been proven wrong. yet the situation remains the same. maybe this childs parents will care enough to try to do someth8ing, but nothing will happen. Because there are parents who dont care and dont want them. one boy i knew only got 2 letters in 6 months, parents are aware of this web site and read the stuff and still continue to send kids there. the kids are to afraid to speak out when spokjen to and the ones that will talk are not believed so how many more have to die, you know this will be found to be unpreventable and no cause of the schools.
-
I know that some parents who have children in Thayer will learn about the death of this poor boy and won't really care. Their child is, or has been, a problem and they would rather have their child in this facility where it's "SOMEONE'S ELSE'S RESPONSIBILTY" and not causing any trouble for them, at least temporarily. It's just so sad. Places like Thayer need to be shut down!
-
The above is sad but true, but if you read the contracts very carefully you see that Thayer has no responsibility for anything that happens to these kids. I am sure there are some loopholes, but go to ISACC.org and read the contract for that is posted for the school. It is almost unbelievable.
-
A very good point. I will take a look - I'm sure it will make me sick.
Probably the only way that Thayer will have a hard time operating is if there is a lot more national awareness about these schools. There has been press about Thayer and about the death of this boy, I'm amazed that parents can find out about these "incidents" and still leave their children in the school.
-
when did u find out about that kid dying?? :skull: what was his name. also diarbakerly.. i remember u but i never saw u of course since i was a female resident when u left. i always wondered whut happened to u. i will email u.
-
Whats up guys I went to Thayer Learning Center for a total of 16 1/2 monthns. I went for 12 1/2, then graduated, went home and all was well... for about a week then I didn't want to live with my dad so I moved in with my mom, and (1) week later my mom dropped me off at drivers ED. and suspecting nothing she drove off. But little did she know that my father and the transports had worked out a plan and waited for my mother to leave, and approached me, then forced me to get in there car and drove me 14 hours to good ol Kidder, Mo. My father didn't end up telling my mother where I was at until about 4 hours after I had been snatched. She was outraged and called the police, called Thayer, did everything she could to find me. I got back to Thayer and was there for 4 more months than I kicked out of the school for insinuating a riot. If you have any questions please EMAIL me at [email protected] or IM me at Ridilinkid19. I wish all the cadets the best at TLC....trust me I know what your going through.
Slade
-
Here's the story that was in the St. Louis Post Dispatch
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... scipline++ (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/D269DB1C49F0E84786256F48005421AE?OpenDocument&Headline=Teenager+dies+at+school+known+for+strict+discipline++)
-
where did everyone else go, shuck? did he go home too? who else was sent away?
-
There have been several papers and TV stations that have written articles and reported about the incident, but the way the school is replying is by giving written statements from former students who are "doing good", these are written statement from parents and kids who had recently left the program, some of them are a year or more old. They were written by the parents right before the kid left and soon after they came home. I would like for some of these "happy people" come forward to talk live to some of these reporters" I know that Willa and John have these kid write about the program while they are there and then they use it as success stories or they call and ask the parents to write something right after the kid gets home. . . WELL DUH of course this kids are gonna be wonderful for awhile who the hell would be stupid enough to act out. I would like to find out how most of these kids are really doing 6 month or a year after, and if they really and truly felt like the program did them good or if they just learned how work their parents better. I have found from talking to several of the kids that were there, that the only thing they learned was how to work the system. They learned how and what to say, but not necessarily doing what they say. They learned that trick from John and Willa Bundy, that is a guarantee.
-
I attended Thayer last year and know that something HAS to ba done to shut this place down (as do my parents after recieving a phone call from the Caldwell county police department and a doctor stating abuse). We are working through various agencys and just want parents "informed". I know my story, things MAY have changed- although very doubtful. I have a list of websites that are investigating, and have reported their findings- for more info you can contact me directly at [email protected]
-
Speak out now!!! Anyone having any information about Thayer Learning Center PLEASE CALL, 1 (800)632-4747 or 1 (660)632-4747. We all need to ban together to stop this crazy people from ruining our community and our childrens lives. Please CALL!!! :flame: :flame: :mad: :mad:
-
To find telephone numbers in the future, you could just try Getinfo.us . I know they used to search all the major phone directories such as Yahoo, Switchboard, AnyWho, etc.
-
god bless you and keep up the good work my daugter is now at tlc and let me tell you it is so good to hear this story for i have been in tears for 50 min now scared worried and i miss my daughter so much and i pray that she has a sucess story. keep up your hard work
-
I AM PAYING 47 THOUSAND AND HAVE NOT SEEN MY DAUGHTER SINCE MAY
-
Well go get off your ass, and get her out, and tell her you'll believe anything she has to say, and go DO SOMETHING. NOW. And no, they can NOT say you cant see your kid or remove your kid.
This is your child. YOUR CHILD. Nobody else is going to protect your kid but you. GO GET HER!
-
On 2004-12-15 20:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I AM PAYING 47 THOUSAND AND HAVE NOT SEEN MY DAUGHTER SINCE MAY"
Sometimes when you pay a lot you get what you pay for.
Other times when you pay a lot you just get scammed.
Scammers are usually pretty good at making it look like you're going to get a lot for your money.
You'd do better to go pick up your kid and try again to handle her problems, whatever they are, in an at-home setting.
(Those of you on Fornits who are tired of my mental health rants will want to skip the rest of this---Timoclea :smile: :smile: :smile: )
-------------------------------------------
If she's a juvenile delinquent, let her know you're not going to rescue her if she does something to get herself locked up in juvie.
If she's mentally ill, try outpatient treatment including psychiatric help from a good pediatric psychiatrist. Cognitive behavioral therapy helps for some mental illnesses. Others need medication. Don't be scared off by Deborah's list of side effects. Yes, effective psychiatric medications can all have serious side effects, but not everybody experiences the side effects badly enough to outweigh the benefits they get, and patients who have side effects on one drug often don't have them on a different drug. So medical treatment with psychiatric drugs usually means the pdoc prescribes a drug that's good for your kid's problem and usually gives you samples or a small prescription so you don't have to buy a full bottle of the pills right away. Then they watch closely to see if the kid improves or starts showing signs of any serious side effects. If the kid starts showing signs of serious side effects or doesn't improve, they stop that drug (carefully) and try another one. Usually the kind of side effects or problems the kid has with one drug will give the psychiatrist more information that helps her figure out which drug or combination will actually work for your kid.
So yes, pdrugs *can* have serious side effects---but what the critics never mention is that if a particular patient starts showing signs of those side effects the pdoc doesn't just leave the patient on that drug----they take that patient *off* that drug and try another one until they find one that helps that that particular patient tolerates well. (I don't know if your kid has a mental illness, but a lot of kids who get sent off do).
Sure, therapy is vital in pediatric patients (and adult patients) until they learn how to cope with the challenges of managing their problems.
But if a patient has a mental illness, there are actual brain differences and damages that can be seen on a CAT scan (they don't normally do them because they're so expensive--but if they do one and look, there are definite differences between normal brains and the brains of mentally ill people), and for many patients therapy alone is just not enough.
If your child's problem is substance abuse, a lot of substance abusers are mentally ill and vice versa, so while AA or NA can be very good therapeutically, if there's an underlying mental illness and you don't treat it, your results won't be good. If there's *not* an underlying mental illness Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous, with the rest of the family in AlAnon, is probably your best bet. If I had a kid with a substance problem I would worry more about the kid making it to meetings than occasionally falling off the wagon---the support from others at the meeting and from his/her sponsor is the best thing for getting the kid to experience accumulating sobriety as rewarding. I've heard far fewer bad things from people's experiences in real AA or NA living outpatient in the outside world than I've heard from people's experiences in these inpatient teen programs.
If your kid's problem is rampant promiscuity, check *carefully* with one or two pediatric pdocs to rule out bipolar disorder. Whether or not your kid was diagnosed ADHD as a kid, but *especially* if she was. A lot of times mania from early onset bipolar disorder is misdiagnosed ADHD, because the two diseases have nearly identical symptoms in children. Hypersexuality is common in teenage bipolars. If this is your daughter's problem, you may feel like locking her in a convent out of desperation, but you may get better results from treating the underlying medical problem.
If your kid's problem is a smart mouth or school refusal, or obnoxious friends or bizarre music and fashion tastes, and your kid *isn't* mentally ill, you may just have a kid with a difficult adolescence and she may just have to live with her mistakes and use her twenties to dig herself out of the hole she's getting herself into in her teens.
It's not easy to have and help a kid who's a bit of a wounded bird. You just have to do the best you can do and hope it's enough. I understand this, because my much beloved daughter is a bit of a wounded bird herself (as am I).
From what I've seen on the internet, I wouldn't pick TLC as a place to send my kid no matter what her problems were.
I met and talked extensively with someone who is/was a staffer at Three Springs in Alabama. While I don't recommend programs unless the kid's situation is so acute even an adult with the same problems would be involuntarily committed (imminent danger to self or others), or unless the kid agrees to go to a drug rehab or program with a *good* reputation (Betty Ford, forex) and the parents can afford it, Three Springs is less bad than some.
Let me tell you why I say that:
1) They have actually demonstrated that they *will* fire staffers if they catch them screaming bad things at the kids, and they don't appear to wilfully look the other way and just allow that to happen.
2) They have actually stood up for the kid and told the parents to lay off when what the parents were upset about was that the kid was gay. They told the parents, "Your kid's gay. We can't change him and you shouldn't try. You need to come to terms with it." If you're very Christian, keep in mind that if this particular kid was very Christian, gay wouldn't have to mean sexually active. There *are* Christian gays who are celibate---so being gay isn't in and of itself terrible moral turpitude on the part of a kid.
3) They typically treat kids coming in from the nightmare programs in Utah and such elsewhere in the industry (and they are *no* relation to such) for PTSD. They recognize that bad programs cause trauma and deplore it.
4) Their strictest sanction for bad behavior is sending the kid off one on one in the woods to camp with a counselor. The kid gets a sleeping bag and a tarp to make a tent and cold meals. If he wants a fire to heat his food and for warmth, he has to collect the wood and ask the counselor, with please and sir, to light the fire. Other stuff gets earned back by being polite and civil with the counselor. Huntsville is actually someplace where you *can* camp year round in the woods without getting sick---my husband grew up there and has done it.
*Normally* the kids live in dorms, and in hot weather they make sure the kids get lots of water and if it's too hot the kids stay inside in the air conditioning.
I know some bad things have happened there that have occasionally caused staffers to be fired, and I *certainly* still believe a child's place is in her own home and that good outpatient care will solve the vast majority of even serious problems.
*HOWEVER*
If you simply *must* put your child in a program, Three Springs in Huntsville, AL is considerably less bad than the nightmare places in Utah or TLC. I haven't searched exhaustively, but I don't think they've *ever* had a death there---which is more than you can say for TLC. You also don't have lots of kids showing up on here talking about how horrible it was the way they do about Provo, TLC, Bethel, etc.
I am in no way affiliated with Three Springs, they don't pay me, and the reason I know the staffer is because she and her husband are active in the Science Fiction fandom community. It's a small community with a very gossipy grapevine and it's significant, to me, that I've never heard anything but good of either of them. So while I don't know her *well* personally, I believe her that Three Springs is pretty much as she described it.
So if I were you I'd bring your daughter home from Thayer *NOW*----then I'd evaluate, as a parent, what problems she still has, or what new problems she has, and make a real good try at outpatient care for those problems.
Then if you think you just *have* to send her to a program, at least pick one whose reputation isn't quite as bad as TLC's.
Personally, *I* wouldn't commit my child as a minor for anything I couldn't commit her for if she did it as an adult. The exception to that would be if I couldn't get her medication down her and she had a history of dangerousness to herself or others, I'd either get them to give her a shot at the hospital if they could, or I'd commit her until she was stable on meds again. But that's consistent with some state's laws on something called outpatient commitment (you have to take your meds and if you don't you get immediately rehospitalized until you're stable again)---laws I agree with and think all states should have, that should apply to seriously mentally ill adults.
But if you're just got to use a program, at least pick one of the least-bad ones.
Timoclea
(I focus on mental illness because a lot of teens that get sent off by desperate parents have a major mental illness, a lot of times undiagnosed, that is the root cause of their problems. My understanding of mental illness, for whatever it's worth, comes from a bachelors in psychology, living with bipolar disorder since I was five years old, being the mother of a child with early onset bipolar disorder, and having just about every close blood relative have either bipolar disorder or one of the lesser mental health problems that run in the same families as bipolar disorder.)
-
For your consideration if psychiatric drugs will be persued. There are no 'easy' fixes.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =150#71306 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=3515&forum=9&start=150#71306)
-
Posted on Sun, Dec. 19, 2004
JOE LEDFORD/The Kansas City Star
After Tim Rocha of St. Joseph worked at Thayer Learning Center Boot Camp and Boarding School for seven days last summer, he filed two reports of alleged child abuse with the Caldwell County sheriff's office.
Teen's death raises concerns about boot camp
Panel: It may have been prevented
By STEVE ROCK
The Kansas City Star
KIDDER, Mo. ? A panel of county and state officials has concluded that the recent death of a 15-year-old at a little-known boot camp might have been prevented with earlier medical treatment.
The panel's report, as well as police records and allegations from former students and employees, paints a disturbing picture of Thayer Learning Center Boot Camp and Boarding School, a military-type home for troubled teens. The report sparked questions from state legislators and illustrates to child advocates why state oversight is needed for such homes.
The privately run facility, about 50 miles north of Kansas City, houses about 100 children who typically range in age from 13 through 17.
One of them, Roberto Reyes of Santa Rosa, Calif., died Nov. 3. The probable cause of death was determined to be a spider or insect bite. Also, a police report said scrapes on Roberto's knees, feet, toes, elbows and back indicated ?that he had been dragged.?
In addition to Roberto's death, police incident reports and seven former Thayer employees and students allege physical and emotional abuse of other students, such as one being forced to eat her own vomit, lengthy isolation, medical neglect and censored communication with parents.
John and Willa Bundy, who own Thayer, declined to be interviewed, but in a written response to The Kansas City Star, Thayer officials called the allegations ?ludicrous and false.?
?These same allegations have been made by several disgruntled former employees over the last couple of years,? the response said. ?All the allegations have been investigated by appropriate state agencies and all have been found false.?
Caldwell County Prosecutor Jason Kanoy said that various allegations have been ?taken under advisement,? but that his office has never filed charges against Thayer or the Bundys. There is a pending investigation in Roberto's case, he said, and he doesn't know whether charges will be filed.
State Rep. John Quinn, a Chillicothe Republican, said he had questions about Roberto's death, but had heard some ?real good reports? about the facility. And the parent of a former student said a stint at Thayer turned her son's life around.
Roberto's death was the first at the facility since it opened more than two years ago.
The final report of the Child Fatality Review Panel in Caldwell County said earlier medical treatment ?may have prevented this fatality.? The bite may have occurred as much as a week before Roberto died, the Caldwell County coroner said, but he doesn't know how much medical attention Roberto received during that time.
Kanoy has refused to release the autopsy report.
Thayer's seven-page faxed response to the abuse allegations consisted largely of testimonials that school officials said were written by unnamed students. Those students reported positive experiences, and one of them thanked the Bundys ?for all their hard work they put into this place.?
?These students' lives were completely out of control before coming to our school,? the response from Thayer said. ?The parents and families of our students who visit on a weekly basis continue to show their support and gratitude for our services and trust Thayer with straightening out their troubled child.?
Ed Proctor, an attorney for Thayer, said last week that he had not seen the final report of the Child Fatality Review Panel and couldn't comment on it. Regarding Roberto's death, he said, ?The bottom line on the reports that have been issued is that it was an accidental death.?
Proctor declined to discuss Roberto's specific situation but said, ?Every child at Thayer has immediate access to medical care at any time.?Deb Hendricks, spokeswoman for the Missouri Department of Social Services, said state privacy laws prevent her from discussing whether the children's division had investigated allegations of child abuse at Thayer. She said a State Technical Assistance Team was involved in the investigation of Roberto's death but didn't know how long that investigation would take.
Regardless, the fatality has caught the attention of Missouri child advocates.
Sen. Pat Dougherty, a St. Louis Democrat, would like to see more state regulation of teen homes. Missouri law exempts facilities from state licensing if they provide care, like Thayer does, ?in conjunction with an educational program.?
?The laws are so weak,? Dougherty said.
He plans to introduce a bill in the 2005 legislative session that would require state oversight for facilities such as Thayer. And though previous attempts at similar legislation have failed, Dougherty hopes the recent death ?serves the purpose to bring public debate out there.?
Ruth Ehresman, policy director of Citizens for Missouri's Children, a nonprofit child advocacy group based in St. Louis, doesn't like that there are six or more unregulated homes throughout Missouri.
?We require places where animals are kept to be inspected,? she said. ?And yet we're willing to allow children to be placed for 24 hours a day, away from their parents, in a place that doesn't require any oversight.?
Preventable tragedy?
Police reports show that about 10 a.m. Nov. 3, a Thayer official called Roberto's parents and asked whether Roberto had any medical problems because he was having a hard time breathing.
Roberto's father said his son didn't have any medical conditions.
Roberto ? who stood 6 feet tall and weighed 240 pounds ? was pronounced dead at 4:34 p.m. that day.
Through a relative, Victor and Gracia Reyes declined to discuss their son's case with The Star. But police reports show that Roberto had been confined to bed the day he died and that school officials were checking his vital signs ?every few hours.? During one checkup, the reports show, Roberto was unresponsive.
School officials performed CPR and called for emergency assistance. One portion of a police report indicated that 12 minutes elapsed between the time Roberto was found unresponsive and the call to 911.
Roberto eventually was transported to Cameron Regional Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead.
The autopsy was performed by the Jackson County medical examiner's office. A doctor there made the diagnosis that Roberto probably died of a spider bite. There is no definitive test to determine a spider bite fatality, said Caldwell County Coroner Gary Brown, but it's done primarily through elimination of other things.
Brown said that doctors couldn't determine the exact location of the bite, but that the autopsy and ensuing tests revealed ?breaking down of the protein,? presumably caused by spider venom.
A supplemental police report written by a Caldwell County sheriff's deputy, who was present at the autopsy along with Sheriff Kirby Brelsford, said the scrapes on Roberto's feet and toes indicated he hadn't been wearing shoes.
In addition to the scrapes, the report said there was a 2-inch bruise on the bottom of Roberto's right foot, and bruises on his chest and arms. There also was a bruise that covered most of his right shoulder and upper right arm.
Brown said he believed some of the bruising could have been caused by the spider bite, but not the scrapes. The police report shows that when a Caldwell County dispatcher asked a school official whether Roberto had been complaining about chest pain, the woman responded that he was ?flopping himself on the floor and probably got his muscles sore.? She also said other people had to help him walk because his knee muscles were sore from exercising.
Elsewhere in the report, a school employee said: ?(Roberto) had been playing a game for a week or so with us saying that he couldn't walk, and he would throw himself to the ground.?
The Child Fatality Review Panel ? which includes representatives from law enforcement, the state's children's division and several other disciplines ? said in its final report: ?The panel feels appropriate legislation dealing with access to the facility by juvenile authorities, social services and law enforcement should be enacted.?
Allegations
Tim Rocha of St. Joseph worked at Thayer for seven days last summer.
?By the second day,? he said, ?I was telling my wife, ?This isn't right.'??
So disgusted was Rocha, 41, that he asked some students for their parents' names and phone numbers so he could call them, an action that he said led to his firing. At least one of those parents yanked her child from the school.
Joanie Nations' son, Anthony, was at Thayer from June until September. Within an hour of her conversation with Rocha, she was making the 11-hour drive to Kidder from her Henderson, Texas, home. She remembers the phone call like this:
?(Rocha) was crying, and he told me, ?I just want you to know what's going on.' He told me Anthony was not being abused at that point by any of the staff there, but he said, ?I know it will happen eventually. Please go get your boy.'??
Rocha filed two reports of alleged child abuse with the Caldwell County sheriff's office in September, noting in one that a student was placed in ?half a chokehold? and that a Thayer employee then sat on the student's legs.
Rocha and others described a regimented, joyless setting that included students sleeping on the floor ? with only a thin pad and a sleeping bag between them and the concrete ? when they first arrived at the facility.
Cullen Parker, a resident of Texas, was a student at Thayer from November 2003 until January 2004.
He remembers students regularly being awakened and forced to ?bear crawl? for an hour or more through the snow. He also remembers a student's punishment for stealing a box of raisins: He was isolated for three days. Between 6 a.m. and 9 p.m., Parker said, the student had to stand in an area about 2 feet square and could sit for only 15 minutes every hour.
?I'll never forget it,? Parker, 17, said of his Thayer experience. ?If someone could record what went on there, even for a week, they'd go out of business.?
In May, three Thayer employees went to the Caldwell County sheriff's office. Incident reports say the employees saw or heard that:
? Students were stripped down to their underwear, tied up and laid on a concrete floor, and ice-cold water was poured on them every hour.
? Restroom breaks were so limited that students regularly soiled themselves. The restricted bathroom breaks led to various urinary-tract and bladder infections. One girl was forced to sit in a plastic tub containing urine for at least 2½ hours.
? One student was tethered to a four-wheeler and ?dragged around ? on the sand track.?
? A female student, a vegetarian, was forced to eat meatballs. The girl got sick and vomited in her hands. ?The girl was then forced to eat the vomit,? the report said.
Sheriff's Deputy Donald Fuller, who took the employees' statements, said he found them to be credible.
?We've had a few reports of similar allegations (at Thayer),? Fuller said. ?It's like the same stuff being said over and over again.?
Kanoy said that the investigation is still open.
Kris Kessinger, 27, one of the three employees who reported abusive treatment to Fuller in May, said she was fired after lodging the complaints.
?It makes me sick to think about it again,? she said of her time at Thayer. ?I don't think I had a day of work where I didn't have a kid cry: ?I can't do this. I want to go home. I'll never get out of here.'
?The parents have no idea what these kids are going through.?
Thayer defenders
The school in Kidder, a town of fewer than 300, houses students in two buildings. There are only three or four houses in the school's immediate view, and nearby traffic is just as likely to be a tractor carrying hay bales as anything else.
?Some people like it (the school), some don't,? said Charles Harpster, 74, a lifelong resident of Kidder. ?But I think they've proven that they're pretty good neighbors.?
The American School, based in Illinois, confirmed that Thayer uses its curriculum. The American School is a high school correspondence course that is accredited by the Commission on International and Trans-Regional Accreditation.
During downtime at Thayer, which costs as much as $4,000 a month per student, students listen to inspirational tapes and read inspirational books.
To Judy Mitchell of Ohio, sending her son to Thayer was ?the hardest thing I ever had to do.? But she did it in March 2003, and son Cole stayed until the following November.
The results?
?It saved his life,? she said. ?He did a 360-degree turnaround and, believe me, we tried everything imaginable.?
Cole acknowledged it was hard, she said, ?but he never spoke of abuse.? Now, she said, Cole is earning good grades at Camden Military Academy in South Carolina.
It's the kind of success story that Quinn, whose district includes Kidder, believes is indicative of the work Thayer does.
?A lot of these are really troubled kids,? Quinn said. ?They'd be in prison if they weren't there.?
But, Quinn said, the final report of the Child Fatality Review Panel said Roberto's death is something ?we definitely need to investigate further.?
?I think they definitely do some good,? Quinn said of Thayer. ?But we may need to examine just what they are doing.?
To reach Steve Rock, call
(816) 234-4338 or send e-mail to [email protected].
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First glance
? Police reports, as well as former students and employees of Thayer Learning Center Boot Camp and Boarding School, allege instances of physical and mental abuse at the facility near Cameron, Mo.
? Thayer's owners, John and Willa Bundy, said in a written response that the allegations are ?ludicrous and false.?
-
hey grundler im rutherford you were just a resi camper for like a half day when i was there you came down with tippets how the fuck do you remember me? i arrived 8/22/03 left 12/20/04
-
to all the ex cadets IM me @ nonesuch2890
-rutherford, chance
-
On 2004-09-27 15:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"whats going on at thayer, why have they quit the construction and why are they letting sergeants go-everyone i knew that worked there has been let go without any reason-they say they are called in and let go-when ask why they are told they dont have to have a reason. Is it because they are not Morman? maybe not mean enough. i know they are going to start writting up sgts that allow anyone but the team leaders to talk to them. glad to hear windle is out of there, i knew him, he was ok. kenyan i knew alittle and he seemed to smart for his own good. there was a girl there, her last name was brown, what ever happened to her? the last i heard she was put in residency then moved back to bootcamp."
omggg ok so yeah brown was in boot camp when i left on november 13 she came back up then went back down for kind of getting mad with williams, browns just really depressed now, she wants to be home, shes young and shes doing a lot better and feels she should be home. and the comment on carey hahaha that was my cadet shes out now thank god, it wasnt the place for her and if anyone wants to talk IM me shreksdonkey1204 most of the people on here i know of but had left before i got there
-
On 2004-09-08 12:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Slade graduated the program and went home for a month then was sent back by family. I understand he is ms. willa's boy, i guess he tells her things that happen. what hasppened to mr. jake is he no longer there? who is the new man in charge is he family,too? how many kids are there now? anyone remember davis or mfadden?"
omg yeah davis "shut your face" lol i miss her and mcfadden was hella tiight. whos this?
-
when yall say to im you... do u mean on aol/aim/yahoo/msn/etc... pleaze... wsup rutherford... how old are you?? ::CHANCE:: from whut i remember you were a QT...lol
-
^^^He's 14.We had sex at thayer, and let's just say it was ummm :wink: :sad:
-
MY SN IS NONESUCH2890.....ON AOL INSTANT MESSAGER......
CHANCE RUTHERFORD....WHO POSTED THAT TOPIC?...I WAS CUTE?....UH ANYWAY
-
OR IF YOU GUYS WANT TO...CALL ME AT 214 324 0088....ASK FOR CHANCE......
-RUTHERFORD
-
hey chance you shouldnt post your phone number on this... anyone can read it!! and who had sex with him at tlc?!?!
-
uh im not nay saying thayer so its not a big deal
-
I also am having a hard time finding certain posts. There were several long posts that I can not find.
HELP HELP
Tim Rocha
-
WHERE DID IT GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO?????
All those stories and threads are gone. Please find them again.
-
Check out: http://www.isaccorp.org/thayer.html (http://www.isaccorp.org/thayer.html)
BAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDD NEWWWWWWWWWWWWSSSS!!
Also check out posts on this website for
Thayer.
Don't send your child there!
-
I had some trouble trying to set up redirects from the old urls to the new ones. I need to hit the books again, I'm sorry.
But I didn't delete anything. I moved the threads from forum 9 to forum 39. If you hit on a bad link, just change "forum=9" to "forum=39" and it should work. If you're still having trouble finding anything, please contact me, [email protected], and I'll do my best to help you find it.
[Religion is] the daughter of hope and fear, explaining to ignorance the nature of the unknowable.
--Ambrose Bierce
-
ok, where is Thayer site?
-
Right here! I just moved a bunch of Thayer threads to this new Thayer forum.
If you're having trouble fining anything, please contact me http://fornits.com/comnt.htm (http://fornits.com/comnt.htm) I'll help.Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
--Denis Diderot, French encyclopedist
-
chance has a little penis i had sex with him in residency.hopefully hes advanced more in puberty so he might be a bit bigger
-
GO AWAY AND TAKE YOUR COMMENTS THAT NO ONE CARES ABOUT, WITH YOU.
-
sorry bro dont be mad i exposed you :oops:
-
While you are both dueling, would you also happen to know anyone who escaped or was rescued from Thayer? Any information that can help a grieving and concerned family member of a child incarcerated in Thayer? Know of a way we can help that family member? That child?
That is what I come to this forum to learn - not the size, ability or lack of.... any physical information regarding someone 99% of us don't know.
Perhaps you could ask Ginger/Antigen to set up a separate forum for you all to go to where you can list, describe and expose???? all these descriptive and lurid issues about objectionable anatomy of those you love to hate. I applaud your desire to vent and will defend your freedom and desire to do so; however, for family members such as myself who live for a word of hope on these threads I really don't care if Chance has a less than perfect appendage.
It is just my opinion, and I could be wrong.
-
On 2005-03-10 08:25:00, Mrs. Doubtfire wrote:
"While you are both dueling, would you also happen to know anyone who escaped or was rescued from Thayer? Any information that can help a grieving and concerned family member of a child incarcerated in Thayer? Know of a way we can help that family member? That child?
That is what I come to this forum to learn - not the size, ability or lack of.... any physical information regarding someone 99% of us don't know.
Perhaps you could ask Ginger/Antigen to set up a separate forum for you all to go to where you can list, describe and expose???? all these descriptive and lurid issues about objectionable anatomy of those you love to hate. I applaud your desire to vent and will defend your freedom and desire to do so; however, for family members such as myself who live for a word of hope on these threads I really don't care if Chance has a less than perfect appendage.
It is just my opinion, and I could be wrong."
lol im just warning everyone its a waste of time to do it with chance :smile: he absolutely SUCKS in bed :cry2:
-
On 2005-03-10 08:25:00, Mrs. Doubtfire wrote:
Perhaps you could ask Ginger/Antigen to set up a separate forum for you all to go to where you can list, describe and expose???? all these descriptive and lurid issues about objectionable anatomy of those you love to hate. I
They wouldn't use it. They're just either bored or they're trying to derail conversation that they don't like. Just ignore them, really. It only works if you take the bait, so don't take the bait. Where powers are assumed which have not been delegated, a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy.
Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798
-
oh man hahaha
who said that about me thats funny hahahahaahaa, you guys dont know shit but hey thats cool. so what have you guys been up to besides describing my penis haha hey by the way i didnt have sex with anyone at tlc, AIM = nonesuch2890 for more stories and stuff. we can talk about my penis too. hahaha silly.LATERS
-chance
-
i am considering sending my son there, and have read alot of negative feedback, but only from anonymous writers. I am looking for real information and direct contact resources. They have been real upfront with me regarding their involvement in a legal suit over the death of one boy. As far as abuse, i want to know. These anonymous posts could be anyone, including kids pulled out early, extreme bleeding hearts, to fired employees. If you got it to say then identify, and i'll contact you and check you out.
-
i am considering sending my son there, and have read alot of negative feedback, but only from anonymous writers. I am looking for real information and direct contact resources. They have been real upfront with me regarding their involvement in a legal suit over the death of one boy. As far as abuse, i want to know. These anonymous posts could be anyone, including kids pulled out early, extreme bleeding hearts, to fired employees. If you got it to say then identify, and i'll contact you and check you out.
-
Here's a bunch of documented info on Thayer:
http://isaccorp.org/documentsnz.html#thayer (http://isaccorp.org/documentsnz.html#thayer)
Of course, if you're determined enough, you can find an excuse to dismiss every former parent, student and employee, every journalist and medical professional and just go ahead and take your chances w/ believing only those people who are entirely vested in convincing you to fork over the money and send your kid.
It's up to you, in the end. But don't say nobody tried to warn you.
I give money for church organs in the hope the organ music will distract the congregation's attention from the rest of the service.
--Andrew Carnegie, Scottish-born American industrialist and philanthropist
-
If you have done any kind of research on google you have read the articles about the death of the boy. The Isac website also has copies of all of the articles including the latest ones which say that IF the boy would have received proper medical care he probably would not have died.
If you are still thinking about sending your child there, regardless of anything else that anyone has to say- Positive or Negative then you need your head examined! (or you just don't care what happens to your child)
PS- to everyone else that may be thinking of replying to this e-mail, a friend of mine replied to a "similar" e-mail on an EZ board over a year ago. She soon found out :eek: that the person was a "plant"- and she began to be threatened about a lawsuit for slander and other stuff- SO BE CAREFUL! Trust NO ONE AROUND HERE EXCEPT FOR THOSE OF US YOU KNOW.
-
i dont see how you can say everyone that is posting negative information is "anonymous". if you did indeed read all the threads, you would see there are many, many parents who have posted under names. If you will go back and read my posts, you will see the allegations of abuse/neglect that I have made against TLC, and I am not hiding behind a paper bag. But, curiously, you are asking people to post under names, but you yourself indeed are behind a paper bag...LOL
If you truly are interested in hearing from parents, PM or email me with YOUR contact info and I will be more than happy to call you! Many, many people are also a bit paranoid because there is speculation that the Bundys post anonymously to try and elicit info to be used in court AGAINST people...i.e., their lawsuit against a former employee which was filed a couple of weeks ago. That person has posted on this board many times over and he did not contact us, we contacted him.
-
I visited the Thayer Learning Center in 5/05 and found it to be well supervised with adults. The
kids that were in classrooms were clean, very orderly, alert, and well, physically and emotionally. As a teacher, I can sense when things aren't right in a classroom, and there
was nothing to indicate that anything was wrong.
I think Thayer is staffed with people who are genuinely caring people and probably the last bastion between these kids surviving to adulthood and their self destruction.
-
Thayer is one of those fear/intimidation based boot camps, isnt it? I have a hard time accepting that someone who sadistically breaks down children emotionally, humiliates them, and them physically pushes them to their limit, if not just outright beat or "restrain" (with pain compliance techniques derived from Juu Jutsu, which is used in Ultimate Fighting championships... not appropriate for kids!) them and control them all day long to complete the helplessness loves and cares.
Its sadism and breaking their will, through and through. And, if you think the mental state they are in isnt facilitative for brainwashing, then you need to go to a psychology class.
Also, regarding the most recent anon post - What you're going to see on a visit is a dog and pony show, if the program is abusive! They're not going to let you see it if they're smart at all!
What you 'sense' has a lot to do with the signals kids give off. Terrified-of-showing-wrong kids trapped in a program who have no way out are not going to show it.
Oh, and to degress, what you've said *REEKS* of a press release or a canned responce. We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
--Plato
-
just to fill you in,I've visited there once announced, and later 30 minutes unannounced. Both times were good, nothing unusual going on, and seems like a very well organized place. My point is, you sound like another extremist, who has never been there, who sits around on forums offering your advise, when in reality your credibility is zero. If you have a true purpose of your post, why don't you get off your dead butt and go see. Talk on this forum is cheap, from extremist who have lots of time on their hands, and really demean the forum. I think programs like this, yes, very diciplined, are a good approach to some youths. The diciplined received is a result of the choice the student decided to make, and knew of the consequence. Yeah, it can be rough, but I don't think its brain washing or abuse. If you think about it in reality, when you make really bad choices, you pay the consequence as well. If you murder someone, you probably won't be sitting there on you butt explaining your view of the world, you'll be in the pen. Some kids need a wake up call, and this is a good method to get them on the right track. What hasn't worked in the past, perhaps fault of parent or kid, no longer matters. The outlined methods of the program is proven to work to over 250 graduated students, only of which you have a couple complain and post anomyously. Do the math. Might not be your method, but then again, your preaching your views on boards like this. Why don't you go see for yourself instead, then you'd KNOW what your talking about, instead of just talking. I'd be interested to know your philosophy after that. The mom's and people that post here have pulled their kids out early, regret it, and use this forum as an avenue to blame someone else for their problems. The kid probably learned that as well from them, thats why they went there, and the parent couldnt deal with it and let the program work. I have yet to see any post from a parent who's kid graduated from the program, that regretted it. Not rocket science, is it?
-
I dont have the money to just travel and take time off to do so all willy nilly because you claim to have gone to a program. Pony up the dough or shut the hell up!
People can lie, and youre a person, as far as I know.
Bottom line, "disciplined" is just dodging the issue of the way that they work inherantly. Saying "its rough" but not actually saying what is jsut vagueness and doging! Quit using the damn emotional appeals and saying "unpleasant = good for 'em" and provide some facts. Also, please stop typing your responces as if youre giving a press release. YOURE speaking anonymously, mr individual.
I'd only go if I could see whats really going on, posing as a 'student' or as a staffer. I have NO interest in a dog and pony show.
Furthermore, a kid DIED there. Thats inexcuseable period, especailly under the circumstances.
But, I degress, youre giving off classical programmie bullshit here, such as The mom's and people that post here have pulled their kids out early, regret it, and use this forum as an avenue to blame someone else for their problems.
I think its funny how we accuse it of being brainwashing, and those who dont go along 100% hate it, and those who do fully just looove it.... especially when we're only seeing a tiny ass percentage of the popualtion, what you say and we have to trust, and you use emotional appeals that basically are like tough/hard/disciplined is GOOD for the little bastards, isnt that what you wanna say?
I have no way to know youre speaking the truth one fucking iota, and the way you speak REEKS of being a programmie. YOUR credibility is zero, youre defending something with a vested interest - Im looking out for children, and when a kid comes out dead from a secretive program that reeks of being one of those break-down based bootcamps (which IS NOT THERAPY AND TEACHES NOTING BUT FEAR) Im going to stand up and talk about it.
So, again, prove what you say, or pay for me to go there, if you even want me to see it - which you cant, and wont, do.
When he [Califano] claims that the voters of Arizona and California did not know what they were voting for when they supported the two initiatives, he reminds me of the way Serbia's President Slobodan Milosevic reacted to recent election results in that country.
-- George Soros -- Sunday, February 2 1997; Page C01 The Washington Post
[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2005-06-29 17:49 ]
-
uh, hello, they dont even have teachers! it is self-taught instruction through home school books. And, if you had toured the school, you would know that!
-
On 2005-06-28 14:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"just to fill you in,I've visited there once announced, and later 30 minutes unannounced. Both times were good, nothing unusual going on, and seems like a very well organized place. My point is, you sound like another extremist, who has never been there, who sits around on forums offering your advise, when in reality your credibility is zero. If you have a true purpose of your post, why don't you get off your dead butt and go see. Talk on this forum is cheap, from extremist who have lots of time on their hands, and really demean the forum. I think programs like this, yes, very diciplined, are a good approach to some youths. The diciplined received is a result of the choice the student decided to make, and knew of the consequence. Yeah, it can be rough, but I don't think its brain washing or abuse. If you think about it in reality, when you make really bad choices, you pay the consequence as well. If you murder someone, you probably won't be sitting there on you butt explaining your view of the world, you'll be in the pen. Some kids need a wake up call, and this is a good method to get them on the right track. What hasn't worked in the past, perhaps fault of parent or kid, no longer matters. The outlined methods of the program is proven to work to over 250 graduated students, only of which you have a couple complain and post anomyously. Do the math. Might not be your method, but then again, your preaching your views on boards like this. Why don't you go see for yourself instead, then you'd KNOW what your talking about, instead of just talking. I'd be interested to know your philosophy after that. The mom's and people that post here have pulled their kids out early, regret it, and use this forum as an avenue to blame someone else for their problems. The kid probably learned that as well from them, thats why they went there, and the parent couldnt deal with it and let the program work. I have yet to see any post from a parent who's kid graduated from the program, that regretted it. Not rocket science, is it? "
yea, and I have been there UNANNOUNCED and the doors are locked and they dont let you in, so I think you are totally full of it!
-
Maybe if we both went, took pictures and brought a reporter, and signed appadavits and swore on a bible, the flag, the koran, and the talmud, then made a pinkie promise, theyd believe us? :lol:
That's all marijuana is, after all. It's just a plant, a common and easily grown one at that. In many cultures, its consumption was lawful for millennia. And in all that time, the bond between thugs, mayhem, murder and marijuana that we see today did not exist.
Dan Gardner, CanWest News Service
-
On 2005-07-05 16:39:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"Maybe if we both went, took pictures and brought a reporter, and signed appadavits and swore on a bible, the flag, the koran, and the talmud, then made a pinkie promise, theyd believe us? :lol: That's all marijuana is, after all. It's just a plant, a common and easily grown one at that. In many cultures, its consumption was lawful for millennia. And in all that time, the bond between thugs, mayhem, murder and marijuana that we see today did not exist.
Dan Gardner, CanWest News Service
"
No, there are still people who don't believe men walked on the moon. You can produce as much evidence as you like but if they don't want to believe it they won't believe it.
-
On 2005-07-05 16:39:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"Maybe if we both went, took pictures and brought a reporter, and signed appadavits and swore on a bible, the flag, the koran, and the talmud, then made a pinkie promise, theyd believe us? :lol: That's all marijuana is, after all. It's just a plant, a common and easily grown one at that. In many cultures, its consumption was lawful for millennia. And in all that time, the bond between thugs, mayhem, murder and marijuana that we see today did not exist.
Dan Gardner, CanWest News Service
"
:lol: , and don't forget to prick your finger and swear on the brotherhood/sisterhood as well!
-
Ok, without giving out TMI...
If I have the slightest inkling there is something very wrong going on there..
Can I just go in and retrieve him???
-
Yes, that is what I did. But, DONT tell them you are coming to retrieve your child. They will try to talk you out of it, then there is a possibility they will "temporarily" move him to a new location and "forget" you were coming to pick him up.
I went and pulled my son out one week after I enrolled him, and I didn't tell them I was coming. I just showed up there at noon on a Saturday. Of course, no one was expecting me and the building was locked up. They only knew I was there because they saw me on the surveillance cameras. Also, once they discovered I was there, they refused me access to the building and made me wait outside while they gathered my son and his belongings.
-
Helloooooooo is anyone out there?
-
On 2005-07-06 10:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ok, without giving out TMI...
If I have the slightest inkling there is something very wrong going on there..
Can I just go in and retrieve him???
"
i cant PM you since you aren't registered to talk. please PM me if interested in talking. I pulled my son out after only one week because I was not comfortable with certain things. If you would like more details, I would be happy to discuss in private. I am just not going to openly disscuss it anymore on these boards because I get tired of people beating up on me and others because THEY think they know what is best for my son (even though they never met him), etc.
-
Bull. If you are a teacher you could never have come away with any sort of positive impression. The education offered at Thayer is laughable.
Try painting your rosie picture of this death camp somewhere on the net where folks don't have a clue.
-
you know they are definately not dead... i graduated there nov 2004 so i can promise you they are not and even if willa "grisel" bundy and john bundy were dead theyve got children in the business and directors... thayers gunna be around for a while, unfourtunatley, you have to sign away your right to sue when you sign the contract to put your child there.
If TCs were interested in treating substance abuse, half the time they'd tell mom "Sorry ma'am, we can't help him. He's not an addict, he's just an asshole.
--GregFL
-
On 2004-07-21 19:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Obviously Ms. Bundy is alive and well, as she can compose three separate "endorsements" supposedly from grateful students. Ms. Bundy, however, has the same fault as the editor of The Source magazine from WWASPS. All the messages to this board have the same syntax, grammar, spelling, code phrases, and program rhetoric. Even slipping some cute little "...I was really wrong and got sent to isolation, but came to learn that life was better if I was good" don't make the postings sound like they came from three different formerly-rotten teens.
Nice try, Wila."
sorry you dont want to hear this but those are real speechs.... i wrote one myself... though its because you have to if you want to go home... most kids write a load of nice sounding bullshit so that willa doesnt "day 1 restart" their year of hard work... i hated that place but it did change me, mostly out of fear... i still have nightmares to this day about it, ((9 months after ive left)) and i can tell you i hope it gets shutdown... its a horrible place and they serve their purpose but they do it in illegal ways...
Men seldom, or rather never for a length of time, and deliberately, rebel against anything that does not deserve rebelling against.
--Thomas Carlyle
-
ooooooooooh my gosh i cant believe all the petty drama on here! i went to tlc, thoroughly hated it , came out better for it, or so to say, its a matter of opinion... i tried to kill myself shortly after graduating the program which of course you dont want to hear the after stories. i dont believe in their methods and had i a child i would never send them to a place like that... im tired, its 2:30 am california time and ive got to go to bed but wow! chance i didnt want to know about your sexual abilities. things go as they must, but i believe as a human being we have inherent rights, dont let anyone take away from your self respect, i hated myself by the time i ended that program, but at least i got the bundy seal of approval! ((that was sarcasm)) i must go, ill check in later
When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
-
whats so special about chance? :rofl:
-
How is he doing now that you pulled him out after just a short time of being there? Why did you send him there in the first place? Obviously not the perfect parent. What is your point to your posts?
-
On 2005-08-01 21:55:00, eyecandy wrote:
you have to sign away your right to sue when you sign the contract to put your child there.
Oh hey! Ask any lawyer. This is bullshit. Doesn't matter what you've signed, you can still sue. There lives more faith, in honest doubt,
Believe me, than in half the creeds.
Alfred Lord Tennyson
-
you have to sign away any harm and intent of sueing them and 49%of parental custody to willa bundy when you put your child in her program. my father explained it to me but the way he understood it is that when u sign that contract you give up your right to sue
I'm glad some people have that faith. I don't have that faith. If there is a God, a caring God, then we have to figure he's done an extraordinary job of making a very cruel world.
--Dave Matthews, South African rock musician
-
:wstupid: hi contact the reyes attorney at 1800 560 4147 or email her at [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected])
-
who are you eye candy? r u tigner or a cadet that knew her?
-
this is probably ford cuz she was @ tlc too. she played the role of an innocent female yet i could see she's a faker. my guess is that eyecandy is ford.
-
On 2005-08-17 10:33:00, jr staff barekman wrote:
" :wstupid: hi contact the reyes attorney at 1800 560 4147 or email her at [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected])"
Shut the phuck up, you pale ass cracker.
"Holler back youngin, woo woo"
:razz:
-
On 2005-09-21 01:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"this is probably ford cuz she was @ tlc too. she played the role of an innocent female yet i could see she's a faker. my guess is that eyecandy is ford."
congratulations. i am bridget forde WITH AN "E". i am an activist for every human beings rights, in my 2nd year of college and a pre-law major currently focusing on the feild of administration of justice. at TLC, one may assume a "role" if that is how u want to put it. tho i cannot honestly say that what i did was in fact assume a role. i came to TLC and i absolutely hated it, i plotted every way possible to get my parents to take me home. it didnt work. after rebelling, i finally had to stick to the progarm to get out.. it sort of worked... becuase i didnt screw up enough, i wasnt moved through the progarm like other fuck ups... i had to work hard. at TLC my goal was to not get into trouble, to keep my head down, and get out so i could move on with my life. i really hate the idea of having my identity out on the web, but what can i do? a persons word isnt powerful if they are afraid. now i am 18 and their is nothing the bundy's can do to me. im not afraid of them. i have respect for them, but not in the way they run their program, though i hear it is very reformed and different now. when miss connie, ms kris and miss crystal filed a child abuse complaint, i was the only cadet who backed them up, the only cadet who stood up to miss will mr jake and sgt jensen and stood up for what i believed in!!! all the rest of you lied and said whatever it took to save your asses. i had been there for 7 months, but i didnt care. i felt the way the program was run was horribly and possibly against the law and definately against ones morals. i was day 1 restarted for my beliefs and put in bootcamp. but i made a deal with ms willa, went back to residency after a few days, went to senior residency, worked my ass off, went to jr staff and graduated on november 13 2004. im proud of myself for graduating. i hated that program, i still have nightmares about it, i think it was run in a horrible and inhumane way and i will never ever put my child through that or suggest to anyone else to do it, tho i will not lie... it saved my life, but it broke my spirit and my self esteem in the process. ive had my ups and downs as has had anyone else, but im so glad that chapter of my life is over.....
well you think im fake... go ahead... i honestly dont care of what you think of me, because i know who i am... and im a real ass person... im not afraid to speak out for myself or others and im a strong young lady who has worked hard to get where i am today. im not a vindictive person, though i spare no love on the bundy family or theyre program. think what you will. you are entitled to your own opinion as i am to mine.
-
[email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected])
sincerely,
bridget forde
_________________
[ This Message was edited by: eyecandy on 2006-04-27 22:38 ]
-
eyecandy, Ms Forde,
Can you tell me what exactly is it that you "respect" about the Bundys?
I'm having a bit of a problem with that statement by you.
Thank you.
-
well anon, ((who are you?)) i respect the bundy's because if u respect and treat others with respect, they in turn will look kindly upon and possibly treat you with respect.
If quitting drugs means joining the war on terrorism, does this portend the fire bombing of Amsterdamn ?
--Felton Manifestation
-
sorry to burst your bubble but you couldn't have had sex with rutherford when you were in residency cuz girls and guys couldn't talk. Unless you're hinting that he was gay (which he's not!!!).
In God's wildness lies the hope of the world x the great fresh unblighted, unredeemed wilderness. The galling harness of civilization drops off, and wounds heal ere we are aware.
-- John Muir
-
exTLCcadet, because i did not have sex with any cadet let alone rutherford! when you make a general statement like that u should address the individual to whom you wish to make this statement. that way it is clear whom you are speaking to.
There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy.
--George Washington
-
On 2006-05-01 16:49:00, eyecandy wrote:
"exTLCcadet, because i did not have sex with any cadet let alone rutherford! when you make a general statement like that u should address the individual to whom you wish to make this statement. that way it is clear whom you are speaking to. There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy.
--George Washington
"
everyone just needs to shut down! rutherford probably isnt even manly. i bet he is gay.
-
Ewww!!! Who actually says shutdown anymore?!
so long as the priest, that professional negator, slanderer and poisoner of life, is regarded as a superior type of human being, there cannot be any answer to the question: What is truth?
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher
-
On 2006-05-17 06:42:00, exTLCcadet wrote:
"Ewww!!! Who actually says shutdown anymore?! so long as the priest, that professional negator, slanderer and poisoner of life, is regarded as a superior type of human being, there cannot be any answer to the question: What is truth?
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher
"
who doesnt?
-
Does anyone remmeber that one sargent who had a mole on his face...he wore glasses, and had a raspy voice.
The male bootcamp made a joke about him, like instead of saying "Make a hole" when someone tried to pass thru the line, they'd say "Make a mole" lol, everyone got smoked not to shortly after that...
-
o yea that was sargent quinn.
-
the turnover rate at that facillity is so great that i am surprised anyone remembers anyone. the bundys do not treat their employees right and so many of them leave. also, will cannot stand it when people offer other ideas or suggestions from anyone. she has to be in control and all the time. she is a complete phsycho! i know....i was a fam rep when it first opened. i probably was one of the better staff there and didnt let her brainwash me into hurting the kids emotionally.
-
i went to the school john and willa bundy own it its thayer learning center in kidder missouri i was there for seven months from sep of 06 to april of 07 anyways everything you read about it is true it's an swful place nothing really bad happened to me but i've seen some stuff it was alot worse if you were a male and im not but hopefully they get shut down they dont care about the kids they're just in it for the money its full of abuse in any way possible and inhumane they give you tons of water that you have to drink and tell you when you can go to the bathroom and you get 30 seconds even if there is up to 15 ppl about the whole medical issue its true as of recently dorthy steele isn't there anymore but she was the whole medical person but she had no experience basically all she did was told you to suck it up and that you were faking it the only time something was done was when it got serious like really high fever or repeated pucking if you weren't new but it didn't last long the hole program is BULLSHIT i talk to most of the ppl i was there with and it didn't help any of them.... if you wana talk to any of them theres a myspace group thatyer learning center cadets theres a ton of them even ones who were there when that kid died
-
I was there for 4 months , i went in this time last year.Some people try to help others dont.But they Do lie alot to the parents.they try t braidnwash u(for real)(u have to watch G Rated(Kids 5 and under) movies everyday for 90 days.and sometiems we are taken out and once it was a smoke session, and we ran SEVENTY LAPS on and off through 1-2 hours.Maybe you should send your kid there tell him a secret code you will write in your letters or somethin because they read every letter coming in and cross out stuff they dotn want you to see.The nafter that month sue them.
were you there in 2003? I worked there then. Whats ur name
-
The girls name was ashley axton, I believe.
do you know ashley?
-
and dont say anything about hard bootcamp to me i was an o.g and we went through the worst of you all, thanks drill seargent lollar and d.s grey ; )
Whos this?
-
Whoz You?
-
Whoz You?
Ex-employee from 02-early 03. Who are you?
-
man, all i gotta say is fuck tht place. nothing but damn liers and manipulaters.cheating ppl out of their money and valuable time(where we could actually be in the world TRYING to do something instead odf a locked down facility where the only thing your parents could hear is the BULLsHIT the staff says.. what makes ppl think tht all these ppl in it for ur money are actually gonna tell u the truth if the truth will cause students to be pulled out, students being pulled out=less money. ppl lie for a reason. these ppl are just hungry for money and power. but KARMAS A BITCH and there time WILL come. trust. just let all these parents keep there money, cause just like i didnt change .i know most didnt. stop wasting your time. i wasnt there through the worst but stilll,i was there and it was bad, theres no need for a place like tht. the worlds already fucked up enough. yea i went there. for a yr. 2006. im still me. if u get there. best piece of advice, fake it till u make it. its what i did. but now i say fuck all the damn ppl tht didnt care, if u did, ur cool, in my book, and i know who it is n shit. much love for the ppl tht had an impact in my life. dont get me wrong, i did get shit out of it, and i did learn alot about myself and other shit, but the time,money, and physical/mental abuse... definately not worth it. at all.. ms willa aint shit. thayer aint shit, and i plan on doing some shit about it. cause the one and only thing tht thayer taught me is tht i CAn be the shit, and nothing and or no1 will stop me. bye bye thayer. you WILL shut down.
-
I was very interested in finding this thread as it seems to be filled with a lot of repressed anger and hate. I researched the information out there about Thayer and Willa Bundy and after reading a lot of things it really seems like a lot of this nonsense is unfounded. I could not find anywhere that Thayer was EVER prosecuted or actually charged with any abuse or wrongdoing. In my experience when there is a lot of information out there that is REAL and TRUTHFUL that there is prosecution behind them. But what I found was a lot of repeated information that didn't even seem accurate at ALL. While I imagine that kids do not and did not like being sent to a school the things that some of them claim seem just kind of silly to me. If all the information out there is true then why hasn't Social Services or Law enforcement ever charged them with anything? When there is actual evidence of abuse I will believe these things until then, I'm giving Thayer the benefit of the doubt that they are actually out there to do good and help people.
-
I was very interested in finding this thread as it seems to be filled with a lot of repressed anger and hate. I researched the information out there about Thayer and Willa Bundy and after reading a lot of things it really seems like a lot of this nonsense is unfounded. I could not find anywhere that Thayer was EVER prosecuted or actually charged with any abuse or wrongdoing. In my experience when there is a lot of information out there that is REAL and TRUTHFUL that there is prosecution behind them. But what I found was a lot of repeated information that didn't even seem accurate at ALL. While I imagine that kids do not and did not like being sent to a school the things that some of them claim seem just kind of silly to me. If all the information out there is true then why hasn't Social Services or Law enforcement ever charged them with anything? When there is actual evidence of abuse I will believe these things until then, I'm giving Thayer the benefit of the doubt that they are actually out there to do good and help people.
Well, the local media reports that the sheriff has stated that (http://http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=KC&p_theme=kc&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=10EE4B21D96121A0&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM):
Sheriff's deputies and former staff members and students have alleged that students at Thayer Learning Center are forced to participate in unreasonable fitness activities, denied medical attention and punished in bizarre ways.
But as the article also explains the procecutor didn't do his job.
"Why" is the obivious question and maybe it has something to do with job in the community.
The Kansas City Star also suggest that it is the case (http://http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=KC&p_theme=kc&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=10D04957D72BEE38&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM)
KIDDER, Mo. - Although some Kidder residents express concern about allegations surrounding Thayer Learning Center, there are city and church leaders who passionately defend the school.
Thayer has provided an economic boon to struggling Caldwell County and the city of Kidder, which has fewer than 300 residents. It's easily the largest employer in the city and - coupled with a related business operated by Thayer owners John and Willa Bundy - has pumped more than $10,000 of tax...
They settled out of court with the parents of the boy who died there. If they were innocent normally you should expect that they would have bashed the parents in court. Why didn't they?
-
What happened to all the kids when the school closed down? Did any of the kids return to graduate after July 2009? What happened to the phone call counselor called Ms. Sandi?
-
I'm not sure what happened to Ms. Sandi.. I've been trying to call her for 3 weeks now..
Hey everyone.. my name is Gabrielle.
My intake: June 14th 2007
Homeward Bound : July 2nd 2008
President Lamarche :)
I would love to talk to anyone who wants to talk about TLC..
I have a very open opinion..
[email protected]
e-mail or add on myspace or facebook.
<3
-
fkkk that place! i was there in 2006 and the time i spent there i experience the worst time of my life!!!
i was taken down constantly spit in my face by the sargeants all my letters were blacked out all the stuff my mom sent me like shampoos conditioner soap my books they kept even all my gold jewlery it supposedly got lost!!
they made us carry our bins over our heads while we ran a miles our arms would shake n colapse n those bitch ass srgnt would just laugh and enjoy taking us down i had to go to physical therapy wen i left that place my arms wouldnt go straight up they would do all kids of crazy movements and eventualy would go straight up.
wat was that fat ass srgnt name omg when i would hear her voice i would get so scared my body trembledd she had a sister who was a counsler.
feel free to get at me at [email protected]