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Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Teen Advocates USA on March 15, 2003, 02:23:00 PM

Title: Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant
Post by: Teen Advocates USA on March 15, 2003, 02:23:00 PM

[ This Message was edited by: Teen Advocates USA on 2003-03-15 19:31 ]

Title: Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant
Post by: Anonymous on March 15, 2003, 07:34:00 PM

You shouldn't have thrown him away in the first place. You're poor parenting killed your "so-called" son. I only pity you. You should have aborted, and saved him the suffering.

Title: Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant
Post by: Anonymous on March 16, 2003, 04:05:00 PM

The topic title is really twisted in the first place, considering the boy died from over exposure to the sun. I don't understand.
Maybe you should leave out your own personal involvement, if you want to get support. That's a tough one. It sounds like you are justifying yourself, and it's to late for that. No-one can stomach listening to explanations of negligence, especially when it's about child abuse.
It's certainly not difficult to figure out why the boy may have been troubled to begin with. I'm sure he was very confused and angry. Open adoption is selfish. It's very sad.
http://www.teenadvocaes.homestead.com (http://www.teenadvocaes.homestead.com)

Title: Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant
Post by: Anonymous on March 16, 2003, 04:08:00 PM

http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com)

Title: Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant
Post by: Anonymous on March 16, 2003, 05:50:00 PM

Sick and wrong!  I went to the site posted and could not believe how the "birth mother" could act as though she had been wronged.  She wronged Ian even before he was born by getting pregnant before she could offer a child a stable home.  No wonder Ian needed help from outside the home.  I can only imagine the confusion he had to deal with his whole life.  
As for the caption "Sunlight is the best disinfectant"  Who's bright idea was that?  Like I said Sick and wrong!!!

Title: Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant
Post by: Teen Advocates USA on March 16, 2003, 08:01:00 PM

To Anonymous,

What the heck are you talking about?  Exposing the dark side of a $200 million dollar industry is not sick and wrong .. it's reality. Second, blaming parents and even the victims themselves is not the answer.  How about holding program owners and operators accountable for the deaths of these children instead of viewing these so-called "teen helpers" as somehow above the law?

 :roll:

http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.c ... a2003.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/Agenda2003.html)

Title: Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant
Post by: Anonymous on March 16, 2003, 10:30:00 PM

I visited your web site yesterday before you removed the slogan "sunlight is the best disinfectant".  What was that all about?
Sick and wrong is the fact that this so called mother is now trying to become the martyr.  I feel she is using this boys death for her 15 minutes.  Get real!!!
Truthfully this letter by the "birth mother" is not helping your cause.  
Barbe, where are you coming from?  Did you have a child in a program?  are you a former program kid?   What gives????

Title: Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant
Post by: Teen Advocates USA on March 17, 2003, 01:58:00 AM

Personally, I do not believe posting an impact-statement written by the birth mom of a now-deceased child is inappropriate or irresponsible.  15 minutes of fame? In exchange for losing a child in the name of therapy? A child that you believe should have been aborted as the answer to protecting him from harm while participating in a wilderness therapy program?
GET REAL YOURSELF. (Or at least an identity which might help explain your lack of critical thinking skills ...)

Title: Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant
Post by: Anonymous on March 17, 2003, 02:38:00 PM

In this case, having the "birth mothers" story is turning people away from a good cause. How about listening to the suggestions of those who were fortunate enough not to have died, but did suffer? You just sound defensive, not like some-one with enough conviction to see the forest through the trees. I don't have much compation for a woman who gives up her child to begin with. Open adoption is selfish and wrong. Let him grow up and search out his Mother then, some do some don't. That is not an option here of course. The birth Mother just has nothing to stand on. She was not the boy's Mommy. The poor boy, how confusing, no wonder he was troubled, having to see his real Mother have more children, right in front of him. It must have broken his heart and made him confused and troubled, hence,"a troubled teen" Where's the adoptive Mother? She, as far as any legal considerations go, should be the one activly pursueing this. Ask a Judge.

As far as identity, I'm a different anon. than the last, but there's no way I would even want to introduce myself to the likes of you. I'm a good Mommy. Would you like my daughter's opinion? We talked about this over dinner the other night. People thought I should abort, or give her up.   The age factor has nothing to do with it. Neither does money. Those are excuses. Love is what you raise healthy children with. There is no excuse for the "birth mother's" neglegence. None. People like her have no right having kids, her priorities are out of whack. It's sickening.

Title: Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant
Post by: Anonymous on March 17, 2003, 02:47:00 PM

On 2003-03-16 17:01:00, Teen Advocates USA wrote: "To Anonymous, Exposing the dark side of a $200 million dollar industry is not sick and wrong .. it's reality." http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.c ... a2003.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/Agenda2003.html)

That's why no-one disagrees with Wes Fager, and others like him. He is a saint, so is Ginger Warbis. Stop trying to get sympathy for the "birth mother" this isn't about her. Her involvement is to little, to late. This is about OUR CHILDREN!

Title: Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant
Post by: Anonymous on March 17, 2003, 02:53:00 PM

On 2003-03-16 13:05:00, Anonymous wrote: "The topic title is really twisted in the first place, considering the boy died from over exposure to the sun. I don't understand."

VERY poor choice of words. Down right SICK.
 "SUNLIGHT IS THE BEST DISINFECTANT?"

Title: Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant
Post by: Antigen on March 17, 2003, 05:49:00 PM

Thanks for the kudos. A saint? That's some high praise and I deeply apreciate the thought. But we're all just people, some with bigger mouths than others.

I can't fault the birth mother of this deceased boy any more than I can fault Wes for getting reeled in when his son was young or my own father for going along as he did. There are people who I can't understand and so I can't forgive--my own mother, for instance--who can never come to understand the wrongs they've done or are doing to their children and, through lobbying and propaganda, to other chilren who they've never even met.

I think I can say that, if I hadn't been through what I'd been through and had such a deep and thorough mistrust of damned near everyone, I might well have given my oldest daughter up for adoption. I thought about it when my pregnancy didn't seem to have any effect on her father's undaddy-like behavior. An open adoption would have seemed wonderful, if I had been naive enough to believe it. Best of both worlds; the baby gets a loving, capable family to raise her without losing her ties to her natural family, should she ever decide to find out about us.

No, I can't blame this mother. In fact, I admire her as much as I do someone like Wes for having the courage and dedication to try to correct past mistakes.

Really, folks, we're all on the same side. I don't think we're ever going to make any progress against these cults by attacting their victims. People have got to realize just what kind of monsters these groups are and not fall prey to them. The most well informed witnesses against them are us, the former oldcomers, parents and staff (not me, but that was largely due to luck and timing) who have figured out the scam.

I understand the complaint, and I think it's valid. But I really think it was just a poor choice of words in this case.

I often list my occupation as "muck raker", which I define as the craft of turning bullshit into valuable, productive soil through the regular introduction of fresh air and sunshine. The original poster was certainly not refering to the boy's cause of death when they chose the topic. I think we just get so used to blind-side attacks from cult supporters that sometimes we blow a gaskett needlessly.

I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it is for or against. I'm a human being first and foremost, and as such I am for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole

--Malcolm X

Title: Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant
Post by: Teen Advocates USA on March 17, 2003, 11:27:00 PM

Known as the "people's attorney" for his battles against predatory practices of big business, former U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis
put it best when he said "publicity is justly commended as a remedy for social and industrial diseases.  Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants."

Based on the premise that public access to information that informs rather than deceives will lead program owners, operators and referral agents to CLEAN HOUSE or risk losing the confidence of investing parents, the TAUSA website is working to close information gaps to insure that accurate and complete disclosure will prevail over the priorities of big business.

Effective communication is no easy task and is often complicated by cognitive shortcuts people use to process feedback.  While I regret offending anyone with my choice of words, in my mind sunlight did not kill any of these children. Lack of proper care and treatment in a climate ruled by greed, ignorance and impiety did.

God Bless Us All,

Barbe

Title: Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant
Post by: Anonymous on March 18, 2003, 05:11:00 PM

Barbe,
You have been asked what your credentials are.  So what are they?  What was your basis for starting TAUSA?  Inquiring minds want to know.  Surely it's not a secret.

Title: Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant
Post by: Anonymous on March 20, 2003, 04:32:00 PM

Well...
 We're waiting Barbe, or are you to busy changing that offensive web-site of yours?
 :???:  Hopefully.

Title: Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant
Post by: Anonymous on March 20, 2003, 04:53:00 PM

"Publicity is justly commended as a remedy for social and industrial diseases.  Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants.  While I regret offending anyone with my choice of words, in my mind sunlight did not kill any of these children. Lack of proper care and treatment in a climate ruled by greed, ignorance and impiety did." God Bless Us All, Barbe

There's no need to quote a judge on YOUR stupid choice of words given the circumstances of Ian's death.
We know what you meant Barbe, and it was still a POOR choice of words, considering that regardless of what's in "your mind," sunlight did kill Ian. Read the autopsy report.


 P.S. You never answered , "Where's the boys adoptive mother?" Both are as equally guilty and irresponsable as mothers could be.