Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Mission Mountain School => Topic started by: Anonymous on May 16, 2005, 12:39:00 PM
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John, please explain your qualifications for dealing with troubled teens?
What kind of training have you received that would qualify you to bring back repressed memories?
Why did you push addictions on girls who were not addicts?
How do you suppose intimidation 24hours day 7 days week) is better form of therapy than love and care?
How do you justify having girls work on the school, building fences, wood chopping, shovleling shit, etc at a school for that's for profit and that you directly benefit from?
How do you explain the lack of quality education? Several girls taught themselves subjects like algebra, functions, etc... And the lack of study of the outside world?
How do you explain tactics of humiliation and pain as beneficial, carrying rocks on back (each metaphor for issue- causing physical damage), wearing sign to humiliate, pointing out things, for instance, a child may be wearing an outfit that's not age apporpriate and forcing that child to wear something for the purpose of humiliating them into behaving as you wish them to- how does this emotional break down work in phsychological terms and how is this beneficial?
How do you suppose coercive tactics such as these create a well-adjusted being?
What studies have been done?
Please explain nightmares some girls have about not being allowed to leave to school after 10 years.
How is it beneficial (other than mind control) to have girls think that if they had not been sent to MMS they would have died? How is this in any way accutrate? (you know, tranquility bay does the same thing)
Why did you have to smirk and act like such a narcassitic jerk if your intention was to help?
What kind of benifits come from girls desperately seeking your approval (aside from stroking your ego)?
Why did Gary seem to disapprove of you and Mike Finn's form of therapy?
What were Mike Finns qualifications?
anything else anyone want to add? I plan on sending these questions to john and posting his response, let's see what he has to say... Would be nice to have an answer.
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I don't think I have anything to add, but I would also really appreciate answers to these questions. Honest answers. Do you think he'll really reply? I hope so. Maybe if we all try to get ahold of him, maybe he'll make some sort of a statement about the whole thing. The more I'm reading this stuff, the more I'm tending to agree that some of the stuff he did was not appropriate at all, and I'd also like to hear his reasons for his actions at MMS.
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I have a question: why would doing your yard work bring us together as a community?
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I would like to know how being forced to believe in what MMS preaches translates into real change if their is no real freedom of choice or free will involved?
It's set up so it seems like their is 'personal responsibility' taken, but in reality their is no personal choice or responsibility- like you can always run away ( if you overcome your fear of being out in the middle of the woods and sacrifice your families love and are told you will greet certain death).
So, again, how does on take personal responsibility when their is no real accountability in the program (with the staff)?
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I would like to know why we're all still afraid/intimidated by you and Colleen? And how that's healthy?
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I will be sending MMS a link to this post with the following message:
Colleen.
We don't have John's e-mail address, will you please forward the following questions to John so that us MMS alumni can have some understanding of what we experienced?
Thanks,
MMS alumni
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They're not going to answer you- but if they don't I wonder how anyone will be able to stick by them. I think if they want to hold up with inregrity they should answer our quesions. I thought those were good questions that i would like to see answered too.
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Why are you guys still intimidated by them?? We are all adults now, meaning, we're virtually on the same level. They aren't big scary people who are going to make you sleep in a tent tonight. We all have our own lives now and shouldn't let anyone intimidate us!
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[email protected]
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Sent to http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... forum=38&8 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=9602&forum=38&8)
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John, I have a questions. whats up with the after-care plan? After I left MMS no on would really take the time to talk to me.
I was so shell shocked- for years and it felt like you guys couldn't care less!
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John,
Please explain how using 12 step porgrams exclusively is useful when they promotes dependency (on God, but especiialy on the groups themselves) instead of self-reliance?
ie, have to attend certain meetings and if you don't you will likely drink/drug and die- you have to follow the steps or risk almost certain death...(I personally would consider more progressive alternatives like smartrecovery.com that instead promote self-reliance.) It is unfortunate that this is given as the only (fear based) option, but that I personally kept going to meetings on and off for years until I realized I didn't need them (i wasn't an addict) and I instead needed to simply care for myself, respect myself, aknowledge my capabilities and learn to rely on them again.
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I sure hope you answer the questions above. i think it would help a lot of us out a great deal if maybe these tactics were explained to us and our voices heard we could understand why we still have nightmares.
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i would rather you didn't sign this email to john and colleen on behalf of all mms alumni which is how it reads.
it's unfair for you to presume that we all feel the same way.
thanks.
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Here Here- If your going to send an e-mail to John with these question you better be ready to sign your names----I support you all doing that.... I have a lot of faith in you guys even though I don't feel the say way---If you want to have any affect and be honest you have to sign your names on the e-mail
-Peace
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John,
To make clear at an alumni's request, not All alumni are part of 'MMS Alumni', just some. I hope you didn't assume that ALL alumni asked these questions, just some.
Thanks- from a percentage of MMS Alumni not equal to 100
-sarah, is this better for you now?
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WE are a group and identify as such, if John wants to know who we are he is free to ask- it should be irrelevant hwoever. I don't forsee him answering any of these questions tho. I think the q's are valid though and deserve to be answered- they deserve to be read and understood by eveyone!
for now we are 'a percentage of alumni not equal to 100', thanks sarah fo that- the name is funny.
Regardless of what happens it'll be known if JM was cowardly and did not answer, or finally offered us 'a percentage of alumni not equal to 100' some peace and did.
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If I was being asked these questions And I didn't know who Was asking them I wouldn't answer them----If I knew who was asking them I would do my best to answer them as honestly as they are asked.
Please don't be sarcastic---I support you guys, but I am not included in these questions, and do you know how many sarah's went to MMS. Sarah what?
I also might not be apt to answer questions that are based in fear especially if people aren't using their names.
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this is sarah fontana.
all i am saying is that there is clearly some anger and resentment behind some of the questions being asked and how they are being asked. because i don't have any negative feelings toward mms or the people there, i don't want the assumption made or the idea created that everyone has jumped on this anti-mms bandwagon.
i think whoever has questions for john or whoever, should ask them, just don't make it look like we all have the same questions or concerns.
i wasn't being sarcastic.
thanks.
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whats up with the ultra-detailed sexual history?
he un-buttoned my pants, stuck 2 fingers inside me, it hurt, then... that's just plain creepy john
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On 2005-05-17 08:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"John,
To make clear at an alumni's request, not All alumni are part of 'MMS Alumni', just some. I hope you didn't assume that ALL alumni asked these questions, just some.
Thanks- from a percentage of MMS Alumni not equal to 100
-sarah, is this better for you now?"
Oh, your clever wit is astounding. Atleast Sarah F had the balls to say what she thought and signed her name. If you're going to try to be oh so very clever and essentially make fun of what she had to say atleast don't be a total coward about it.
Melissa Gower.
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I thought that was pretty funny- lighten up, i think that everyone understands that 'MMS alumni' doesn't refer to all alumni- wouldn't John know this already? No one is confused about that point.
I understand why you'd prefer to remin annonymous, percentage of alumni not equal to 100, where do I join- I'm in, I'll be the name that people seem to need for whatever reason. It's Kat.
For the record, the other percentage of MMS alumni that are not part of the percentage of alumni not equal to 100, there are sensible reasons to remain annoynymous- many girls, from what I've read and heard, seem to feel they won't have any MMS alumni friends if they speak up, some may have lawsuits pending and naturally it is best to remain annonymous, some just fear being labeled a bad MMS alumni and are still haunted by that stigma and feelings associated with being labeled as such, and I agree with above that who they are shouldn't matter. These are valid questions that deserve answers, regardless of who's keyboard they come from. I know I certainly want to know the answers, I could've written them myself- they are all question marks in my mind and have been since I left MMS.
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I am sorry, but whoever does not agree with this just leave. It's like your making a hobby out of argument! stop defending other girls like "atleast she had the balls"...just shut up...gawd so tired of it. yes and I mean to be rude! so tired of lame excuses. "yap yap yap" shut up. and if you feel tired od listendng to us talking about the school and having such anger...oh yeah just LEAVE..i tried to be nice, but i'm so sick of it.
and with that "alumni signature" duh John knows its not from all allumni...don't just write things to tick people off. also just because your willing to write your name under your post doesn't make you supper man. stop bagging about the fact that you decide to write your name and we don't...you want applause "bravo" bravo" for you. gawd same old mms shit. and you prob want credit from John and the school for defending them. Bravo for, for stiking up for something that is just bluntly wrong.
The truth shall be spoken.
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thanks for that kat you sadi it all, not worth a reply from me.
anyway, it's been 2 days and no reply from John.
We're waiting, Mr. John Mercer.
from
kat and a percentage of MMS Alumni not equal to 100
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"a percentage of MMS Alumni not equal to 100"
Not that it matters anymore because you guys have already sent this e-mail---But what does this statement mean? Really I don't want an answer....I am just saying it feels mocking to people like me that wouldn't want to be asking these questions.
And I think giving your names is out of respect and, and I truely beleive that is why you are not getting a response.
If you want a response form John, first get over all of the high energy around this think of what your questions are exactly, get clear and then call him or write a letter, or an e-mail, a personal call or letter, and then sign your name. I am positive that he would respond.
Again Know one needs to get defensive towards me I am not a threat to what you guys are trying to do.
And for who ever said this:
"for stiking up for something that is just bluntly wrong."
How do you know what is wrong? evidently Melissa thought it right-and she has earned he spot here too. And if I got a letter from a bunch of anonymous people and I kinda new who some of them were I would probable read and it and not respond.
These are some observations---Much hope being sent to you all.
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John,
please explain your qualifications for dealing with troubled teens?
What kind of training have you received that would qualify you to bring back repressed memories?
Why did you push addictions on girls who were not addicts?
How do you suppose intimidation 24hours day 7 days week) is better form of therapy than love and care?
How do you justify having girls work on the school, building fences, wood chopping, shovleling shit, etc at a school for that's for profit and that you directly benefit from?
How do you explain the lack of quality education? Several girls taught themselves subjects like algebra, functions, etc... And the lack of study of the outside world?
How do you explain tactics of humiliation and pain as beneficial, carrying rocks on back (each metaphor for issue- causing physical damage), wearing sign to humiliate, pointing out things, for instance, a child may be wearing an outfit that's not age apporpriate and forcing that child to wear something for the purpose of humiliating them into behaving as you wish them to- how does this emotional break down work in phsychological terms and how is this beneficial?
How do you suppose coercive tactics such as these create a well-adjusted being?
What studies have been done?
Please explain nightmares some girls have about not being allowed to leave to school after 10 years.
How is it beneficial (other than mind control) to have girls think that if they had not been sent to MMS they would have died? How is this in any way accutrate? (you know, tranquility bay does the same thing)
Why did you have to smirk and act like such a narcassitic jerk if your intention was to help?
What kind of benifits come from girls desperately seeking your approval (aside from stroking your ego)?
Why did Gary seem to disapprove of you and Mike Finn's form of therapy?
What were Mike Finns qualifications?
kat
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I don't even fucking like John, in fact I hate him. I don't talk to any staff at the school and haven't in years. I don't care about what John, Colleen or anyone else there thinks of me now. I don't want any "bravos" from anyone, and if I need to "lighten up" so do all of you crying about someone having a different opinion than you. You clearly didn't read what I had to say because I made it clear I don't care to defend the school and I certainly don't care if I am or am not included in the "MMS Alumi" signature. My point is if someone is going to just be blatantly rude and make fun of someone atleast make it known who you are. I have no problems with saying anything to anyone, and I'm not scared of that person knowing who I am. This is really getting pathetic. You all know if this was real life you wouldn't be saying these things because you are clearly cowards. Just because you can hide behind a computer screen you decide you can get all big and put everyone down. This doesn't apply to everyone clearly, as anyone who has anything honest and legitimate to say I fully support. Sorry if you're offended that I'm being "rude", but so are many other people. I'm sorry if I'm not going to just jump on the bandwagon of talking badly about those who had a good experience. In the end, even though I had a bad experience at MMS I would rather remain on the side of those who say what they have to say and don't try to hide behind anything. I'd rather associate with people with backbone and integrity than pathetic cowards and I don't care if they like MMS or not. Say what you want but I stand by everything I just said and nothing is going to change that. Initially it was nice to talk to other girls from MMS and hear what people had to say but this has become something totally different now, and I don't have time for this childishness. Either do something or don't, but don't just keep whining about it.
Melissa Gower.
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This is silly, but-
Sarah F, you pointing out what you pointed out was like saying the sky is blue- just to ruffle feathers and way out of line.
Melissa G, um, relax? and yes, lighten up. don't even understand what your problem is.
I am personally not intolerant of people that got something good or had an overall good experience at MMS. It is the girls that are unreasonable that annoy me. been talking to several former MMSers with good experiences- but they are reasonable. As far as I'm concerned no reasonable person can walk away from MMS and say all was ok- it simply was not and that's very much real. Too many stories, too many stories to pretend anymore and continue with the charade. The covers been blown. Even girls who thought MMS was good for them with whom I've spoken with agree there were messed up things about it. I have the utmost respect for those ladies and even understand- I was challenged phsycally in way I never would have been and for that I am grateful...
And the cowardly thing- way low. Low blow- you're very mean. I suspect those you call cowardly would not choose to have you in their life either.
For the record, I don't see any girl willing to take a stand as a coward. the forum is not the place where taking a stand and where revealing your identity will do the most benefit. They'll get there and face their fear, MG- sounds like theres a pretty good amount of clarity about the situation here. The forum is for whining and apparently for being mean and fighting too- nothing is really going to change through this- maybe a few parents will think twice about MMS, but real change happens outside of here. It's what's happening now and I am guessing no where around you, MG- meaning you're not a part of it.
kat
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i'm confused melissa didnt say that the school was ok, she said she had a bad experience and she said that what she said didn't apply to those being honest and stuff. she was saying that she is annoyed by the unreasonable people too just the people on the other side of the coin. you guys both seem angry about the same thing and both probably need to lighten up.
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Yap - everyone is losing the point of what this forum was about in the first place.
Girls harmed by MMS who were looking for support!
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Day 3
No answer from John yet.
I wrote John Mercer 2 times (and Colleen once).
First I ending from: MMS alumni, then from kat and alumni not equal to 100 for the purpose of clarity, in case he was confused that MMS alumni meant all alumni and to be sure he understoond not all alumni, only some alumni, were being represented in that e-mail. Also put in Kat there so that he knew there was a person on the other end and not some random annonymous group, just in case that point bothered him and give him an excuse not to reply.
Still there's been no response to these questions, maybe I should call and ask him to check his e-mail just in case. Think that'll get us some answers? I'll probably call within the next few days if we dont hear from him by then. Damn you, John- just give us some answers, that's all we ask. I really can't see why this would pose a problem, can any of you?
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lol- lighten up, think you're right.
I'm a little confused myself...
I say why not call him.
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Kat,
:razz: you are so funny! :???:
hahaha.ok ok..i'm a little crazy
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oh yeah by the way it's me "star"
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DAY 4
still no responce from John Mercer.
kat you call or going to call?
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Star-
ha ha ha LOL...!
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Day 5
nuthin
i will be calling Mr Mercer today.
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Let us know what he says!
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yeah i am with melissa. really if you want answers you have to be calm, collected and mature about it. we should use our names on stuff like that because maybe he will say stuff that was speicfic to individual people. i dont know, this has just sooooo gone overboard. everyone is fighting and stuff and that was not what i intended to happen at all.
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I'll tell you why he did not reply, those were not questions they were accusations. The text all by itself is so full of hatred and fear, no wonder he has not responded, I suggest putting the anger aside and really thinking about what kind of answers you want, and if John is the person who can give them too you. Are you cuurently seeing a therepist? Maybe someone with an impartial view can help you find some peace when it comes to this subject. I can tell by the messages that there is a lot pf pain and anger there. Although I question wether John and the staff at MMS are who you should be angry at. By the way I am Katie Harrison ( Wintermute now as I am married) I was at MMS in the early ninties. I came with a shaved head, had to carry a backpack full of rocks around for my first month, and when I came home I left a book of poetry behind at the school, hopefully that will let some of you know who I am. MMS was not a perfect experience, life is not a perfect experience, it is unreasonable to think that it will be. I trully hope you find some peace and solace, if there is anything I can do to help you get there let me know. Love to ALL my MMS sisters, wether you are happy with your experience or not, we share a bond, a special bond, and we should be here to support each other. I posted a new message called POsitive MMS experience, and I invite you all to read it and respond. Lets try to help each other here insted of spreading around hate and malice. LOve- Katie H
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Katie, while I agree some of the questions were written more as accusations, some are actual questions based on things that actually happened. Asking someones qualifications is not an accusation, nor is asking about the inadequate schooling,because in my time there that certainly was a problem. I think that while some people may have lots of anger and fear, there are some people who saw things John did that were wrong, and just want to ask him about those things. That doesn't mean that it's a huge issue in their life, or that they need therapy about it. I think that in some cases here, people's anger at John is just that, anger at John. Not because he told them things they didn't want to hear, or because the truth hurts, but because he did things in their presence that they felt were inappropriate. It is unrealistic to expect any experience to be perfect, I agree. But it's not unrealistic to expect a certain level of proper behavior. A level that many feel John did not meet.
Melissa
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I agree whole heartedly with what Melissa has so articulately expressed. The bottom line is there were many who feel there were some things that are unacceptable.
To answer your quesion, Katie, no I currently do not see a therapist, but to the therapists I have described MMS to have frequently raised their eyebrows at the descriptions of the methods of MMS. The fear based change, the level of activity for the purpose of exposing emotions- rarely providing any clarity on issues that I struggled with, however I did, as you mention, feel damn good about that 50 mile bike ride, etc. For me, however, that was almost beside the point...The critical stuff was negelcted or exacerbated. Forced accountability seemed entirely contradictory and confused me- even at age 14, I recall feeling that the bs of clear ego stroking on the part of John and Mike was an insult to my intelligence! Especially with such things as fear based growth and development. In my case, much of the recovery themes MMS promoted seemed oversimplified and the superficial modes of 'therapy' unhelpful, to say the least- much felt ultimately hypocritical, that is, this false assumption of John's own virtue (self-promoted) is almost laughable to me if it weren't so tragic, IMHO-also considering freedom of thought and opinion was nonexistent, unless they coincided with their own doctrine is appaling. Worse, I had to convince myself they were right, to a certain degree- for the sake of playing along and not having to do work crew!
Ultimately, I am beginning to suspect MMS's 'sucess rate'- in the sense of adults looking back on thier adolescent years and saying MMS was great and in actuality helped them theraputically heal from past struggles, seems ridiculous that studies have not been done on this topic! Some would say, a life saver. Others have drasticlly different views and, while there may be no reconciling that, the older I get and the better educated I become the more convinced I am that these points of negative and what some call abusive MMS methods are important and not to be dismissed - there's no reason the truth of what someone experienced should have to be silenced or sent to a therapist.
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i agree with you melissa.
i agree with you too, michelle!
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ditto (I agree with Melissa & Michelle)
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SARAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hey! Its Julie...remember me? How is it going?
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I have one question...has anyone before the past month or so received any communication from MMS? It seems like all of a sudden...they are having this reunion and feel that we should be obligated to suddenly care about people that have had NO interest in our "after MMS" lives.
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uhhhh yeah....i know lot of alums including myself that have kept in touch with the staff and other alums there.
How much effort have you yourself put out there to keep in touch with the school and other alums????
Remember....they have a lot of girls to remember and they are running a school so we, unfortuntly have to do most of the work to keep in touch....thats how it is and thats how its been forever.....try and keep in touch with everysingle girl that went to MMS and run the school.......
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i called a few times and they never called me back. i don't know that it wouldve mattered much anyway cos my head became such a mess bcuz i was so not in line with what we were told there that i proly been even more confused and triply worse off
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Hi girls its Melanie.....great to see many names from my past at MMS.....You are all so brilliantly intelligent! I stumbled across this site...I myself have mixed emotions about MMS and have developed the philosophy of take what fits and leave the rest, there are definitely things that helped me and things that hurt me. It is amazing how when I was under the control of MMS it seemed that it was all knowing and then to have 12 years on the outside there is a whole big world out here that I have had to navigate on my own. I have adopted the idea that my parents paid for the services MMS provided and it was what I needed at the time....Mostly I am writing because I would love to say Hi to you and touch base any of you can write me I would love to hear about your lives.... GOOD...Bad whatever...and share mine if you care to hear about it! Anyway....my email address is [email protected] write me if you want and good luck and best wishes to the rest of you!
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hey m,
how the hell are you?? Yea, defintely weird to look back and think on MMS control comprared to the uances that actually exist in the world- fer sure.
I sent you an e-mail- drop me a line if you can!
xo kat