Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Daytop Village => Topic started by: starry-eyed pirate on September 05, 2005, 03:05:00 AM

Title: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on September 05, 2005, 03:05:00 AM
i was in str8 85-87 and i am wonderin' if Daytop is/was an offshoot of Synanon.  Does anyone have an answer ??  Any information anyone can provide on this subject is greatly appreciated.

i am also wonderin' if any Daytop staff or former clients were ever on staff at the Seed in FLA.  Does anyone know ??
Title: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2005, 07:18:00 PM
Daytop proudly acknowledges that its roots are in Synanon. Daytop's founder--Monsignor O'Brien modeled his program after the Synanon  "treatment"(gag) modality. Things like encounter groups and the Daytop lingo are taken from Synanon. If you look on Daytop's website, you will see Daytop giving credit to Synanon. Daytop staff, during "therapeutic community training" watch videos that detail Daytop's history, including odes to Synanon.
Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
Post by: Magnificent on February 27, 2009, 08:41:55 PM
As a former staff from Daytop I can tell you that they did share the history and connection to Synanon.  The conection was simply that the model was utiltized to develope what Daytop would be but it wasn't a deal where they walked around talking about Synanon in fact it was stressed that Synanon broke a lot of rules and became a cult.  The Florida program did have some NY staff who went to help get it started but I'm not sure what all happened with those people I've been gone for some time.
Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
Post by: psy on February 27, 2009, 08:52:44 PM
Quote from: "Magnificent"
Synanon broke a lot of rules and became a cult.

You speak of this as if it was some accident.  Dedirich knew full well what he was doing and designed the components of his program to break people down and build them up in his image and ideology.  The same thing happens at other programs that use their methods, regardless of whether or not that was the intent to begin with.  Study after study has revealed that the confrontational therapy methods used by Synanon and it's derivatives produce lasting harm.  Even Hazelden has long since abandoned such methods.  Do you really think "haircuts" were good for anything other than to produce lasting trauma in a significant portion of participants?
Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
Post by: Ursus on February 27, 2009, 10:00:52 PM
Quote from: "Magnificent"
As a former staff from Daytop I can tell you that they did share the history and connection to Synanon.  The conection was simply that the model was utiltized to develope what Daytop would be but it wasn't a deal where they walked around talking about Synanon in fact it was stressed that Synanon broke a lot of rules and became a cult.  The Florida program did have some NY staff who went to help get it started but I'm not sure what all happened with those people I've been gone for some time.

If I remember correctly, wasn't it David Deitch that came over from Synanon to help light a fire, so to speak, under operations at Daytop? I don't think Synanon was yet recognized as a cult (back then); it was still receiving government funding and in fact, had a branch in the New York City area and, for a time, also in Connecticut.

There were a few TCs started in the metropolitan New York area in the early 60s; I might be off by a few years, but I seem to recall that Daytop was one, and Phoenix House was another. I also seem to recall that Art Barker (later of The Seed) was allegedly living in Brooklyn or the Bronx during that same time period.

Early on, either Daytop or Phoenix House, or both, worked out a deal with the city whereby men convicted of non-lethal crimes involving alcohol or drugs were given the option of doing their time at the TC instead of jail. I was wondering, do you know whether Barker was in such a situation and availed himself of TC time instead of jail-time? He was reputed to be somewhat of a rabble-rouser back then.

One last question:

"The Florida program did have some NY staff who went to help get it started but I'm not sure what all happened with those people I've been gone for some time."[/list]
Are you saying that Daytop specifically did send people down to The Seed program in Florida to help them get started? Do you know whether any other TC, e.g., Phoenix House or Synanon or Gaudenzia (Philly), or any other government programs also did so?

thnx
Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
Post by: Oscar on February 28, 2009, 03:04:30 AM
For a start read Daytops own history page (http://http://www.daytop.org/history.html):

Quote
In the 1950's, the public attitude was "once an addict, always an addict." Neither jail nor hospital stays seemed to make a bit of difference to an addicted person. Father O'Brien started researching other means of treating addiction. One of the places he looked at was Synanon. In 1958, Charles Dederich, himself a recovering alcoholic, started Synanon as a community of recovering people. This system was based on group encounters and addicts confronting each other, demanding self-revelation and responsibility.

Concurrent with Father O'Brien's search, a group of learned men from the Brooklyn Court system was on a similar quest.  Dr. Alexander Bassin, Chief Researcher for the Kings County Supreme Court Probation Department, was perturbed by the disheartening results of turnstile sentences given to addicts. Dr. Bassin's strength of purpose spurred his boss, Joseph Shelly; criminologist Herbert A. Block; and Dr. Dan Casriel, a consulting psychiatrist with the Brooklyn Court, to a nationwide search for an effective response to the addicts who showed up in their courtrooms. They also saw possibilities in Synanon.

By a fortuitous turn of fate, Father O'Brien and Dr. Casriel chose the same day to visit the Synanon intake center in Westport, Connecticut. What they saw there convinced them that they were on the right track.

From Wikipedia's page about Synanon there is a chapter called Lasting influence on the behavior modification industry (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synanon#Lasting_influence_on_the_behavior_modification_industry) where this link is placed.

I believe that Daytop's program is developed from Synanon just like CEDU's but in another direction. It is the same as with languages. People speak German, Danish, Swedish etc. but if they travel around in their own country they have difficulties understanding what their countryman tells them, but it is still their native lauguage which is spoken.
Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
Post by: Inculcated on May 17, 2009, 10:13:18 PM
The Origins of the Drug-Free Therapeutic Community
Frederick B. Glaser, M.D., F.R.C.P.(C) 1
 1 Addiction Research Foundation, 33 Russell Street, Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5S 2S1
ABSTRACT
In this paper an attempt is made to trace the origins of the drug-free therapeutic community. Virtually all such programmes in North America may be traced to Synanon, which in turn may readily be traced back through Alcoholics Anonymous to the so-called Oxford Group. At this point the line of evolution becomes less evident. But an examination of various aspects of the background and career of Dr. Frank Buchman, founder of the Oxford Group, suggests a strong link with the Protestant Reformation and, through it, with the forms and practices of primitive Christianity as embodied in the Dead Sea Scrolls. It is suggested that the present-day therapeutic community is only the most recent reincarnation of a particular type of religious organization which dates from at least the Intertestamentary Period. http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/jour ... 1&SRETRY=0 (http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119579418/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0)


(In search of an essential TC)”…traces a conceptual and organizational lineage of the modern TC programs beginning with the Oxford Group circa 1921,(Also named the Buchmanites or Moral Rearmament MRA,the final name to AA )  Synanon circa 1958 and Daytop Village circa 1963.
In the period of 1964-1971 TC programs were rapidly spawned directly and indirectly from Synanon and Daytop Village (including: Gatewood house, Gaudenzia, Marathon House, Odyssey House, Phoenix House, Samaritan and Walden House.

http://books.google.com/books?id=q7zlo_ ... &resnum=10 (http://books.google.com/books?id=q7zlo_jZQEwC&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=Daytop+gaudenzia&source=bl&ots=88x54MBL5g&sig=dILgGf3ZlF4t1ISq1dr5fJFwFNo&hl=en&ei=MrcQSrq6Op64tgOBwbH_Ag&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10)
Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
Post by: Inculcated on June 11, 2009, 03:35:29 PM
http://www.weblo.com/property/real_esta ... Halloween/ (http://www.weblo.com/property/real_estate/asset_news/6603386/Common_Ground_High_School/Giving_more_than_candy_on_Halloween/)
“You can’t keep it unless you give it away”. I guess that goes for candy too.
Common Ground is a chimerical form of Daytop.  In this strain Halloween not only does exist, they celebrate it without calling it “Gaudenzia”. ::evil::
Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
Post by: Inculcated on June 13, 2009, 07:04:58 PM
In the begining there was Synnanon AND DAYTOP BEGAT ELAN....
http://www.bykevingray.com/stories/stor ... badcompany (http://www.bykevingray.com/stories/story.php?page=culture/badcompany)
An excerpt from Kevin Gray's article is as follows:
Once upon a time, when a very different Lord of the Flies haunted the classroom.

On a February morning in 1979, deep in the piney woods of Maine, 20-year-old Liz Arnold watched as a houseful of teens berated a weeping girl who'd just wet her pants. The girl's name was Kim. She was 17. Moments before, she'd been spanked with a paddle in front of the 100 fellow delinquents and drug addicts—more than two thirds of them men—who made up the student body of the Elan School, a therapeutic community of last resort that, during its seventies heyday, may have been something far from therapeutic.

As the residents surged over the scuffed linoleum of the dining room, knocking over metal chairs, Kim curled into a ball. "You fucking bitch, fucking whore, fucking fuck-up!” Kim was enduring a "learning experience." She'd mouthed off to the school's senior residents, and at Elan in the seventies, this was the response. But the lesson was getting out of hand. "[We] were whipped into a mob," says Arnold, an ex-speed addict who'd arrived at Elan in 1978 after a phony suicide attempt forced her affluent Ridgewood, New Jersey, parents to seek professional help. "It was brainwashing. People like Kim were gonna be junkies or hookers if we didn't make them get their shit together." Arnold soon added her voice to the eardrum-breaking sound of 100 young adults caught up in the adrenaline rush of anger. To an outsider, it must have looked like mad­ness, a Lord of the Flies outpost with castaways who were regularly dressed in tinfoil, diapers, and "hooker" skirts. Some had signs around their necks that read: I’M AN EMOTIONAL VAMPIRE or ASK ME WHY I’M A BABY or CONFRONT ME AS TO WHY I’M A WHORE. All were red with rage. "Kim," Arnold recalls, "was semi-catatonic."
Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
Post by: SEKTO on June 14, 2009, 12:03:36 PM
Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ?  Is the Pope Catholic?

http://books.google.com/books?id=O4l7yR ... =2#PPA4,M1 (http://books.google.com/books?id=O4l7yR9xPNYC&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4&dq=%22You+can't+do+it+alone%22+O'Brien+Synanon&source=bl&ots=9ls66Wez1C&sig=W99k_SeGjmgUyd_3jHjEI9xwBec&hl=en&ei=vB41Sr72MZmNtgeW8Oj4Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2#PPA4,M1)
Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
Post by: Inculcated on June 18, 2009, 02:24:08 AM
AND SPAWN ANON AND ON...
DAVID A. DEITCH, Ph.D., a Clinical and Social Psychologist, is currently Professor of Clinical Psychiatry at the University of California, San Diego, and Director of the Addiction Training Center. Dr. Deitch has 40 years experience in the development of drug abuse treatment systems for adolescents and adults, nationally and internationally. In the non-profit public health sector, he was Co-Founder of Daytop Village, Inc., and also served as Senior Vice President and Chief Clinical Officer for Phoenix House's Foundation.

http://www.phoenixhouse.org/National/Ab ... Staff.html (http://www.phoenixhouse.org/National/About/Leadership/KeyStaff.html)
 
(related)
www.kap.samhsa.gov/products/manuals/tcc ... dule02.pdf (http://www.kap.samhsa.gov/products/manuals/tcc/pdf/pmodule02.pdf)
Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
Post by: Inculcated on August 18, 2009, 03:14:03 AM
And spawn Anon and on:

Casriel (- Psychiatric consultant to the Synanon Foundation, August 1962 to June 1964) also created the humbly named:
The Casriel Institute : the treatment and training facility for the new identity group process and theory.

Germany has made a home for the concept http://www.dan-casriel-institut.de/ (http://www.dan-casriel-institut.de/)

Casriel on his AREBA project: [Exhibit Xo. 14 (d)]
AREBA, Inc., A Humanizing Process for the Family of Man

Introducing AREBA, A New Concept in Rehabilitating Drug Addicts
AND Other Emotionally Disturbed People

A new psychotherapeutic treatment program for middle-class and upper- class adolescents and adults — designed for severely character disordered personalities who do not need a sustained 3-year program to get well

In 9 months — the time it takes to conceive and give birth to a baby — AREBA can reprogram a person toward in-the-world behavioral and emotional health.

At highly successful Daytop Village,3 years used to be required to rehabilitate an addict, but today, new techniques have reduced the time to a year and a half.{Unless you’ve got good insurance coverage for your problem child, then hell we’ll just keep them indefinitely, raise them for you? }
Now, Psychiatrist Dan Casriel and Ron Brancato, former director of program at Daytop, have utilized their experience to establish a new kind of program for middle-class emotionally disturbed people.

Frankly, AREBA is a hard-nosed program that isn't easy.At least, at the beginning. When people have been in AREBA a few weeks, they usually start to like it  ?  and to develop an esprit de corps about AREBA.

The program starts by telling newcomers to stop acting out their symptoms. Immediately. Then, it goes to work on the distorted feelings and defeatist attitudes which have caused the symptoms to exist in the first place.

AREBA makes people face the truth about themselves, find out who they are, and grapple with how they feel inside. At the same time, it trains people to function in the world in which they must live.

The AREBA program is designed to treat people whose emotional problems prevent them from functioning effectively and responsibly within the boundaries of normal society. There are no rigid age restrictions. AHERA is structured for focus on the problems of both adolescents and adults. AKEBA is based on the principle that psychiatric treatment alone is not enough to rehabilitate an infantile neurotic or character-disordered personality — who, invariably, does not know how to function. The program is designed to help an individual in two ways: (1) to provide psychotherapeutic treatment to help him express and under-
stand distorted feelings and self-defeating attitudes ; and ( 2 ) to provide step- by-step guidance about how to function more effectively in the world.

The program has been founded and structured by Psychiatrist Daniel Casriel and Ron Brancato, former director of program of Daytop Village. It is realistic, tough minded, and extraordinarily effective. Study the schedule following and see for yourself why AREBA is different from other approaches you may have read about. I did and it's not. (Except that it’s an accelerated version)

The AREBA program lasts 9 months, and consists of three distinctly different
phases of personal growth.

Phase I — First four months, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week

At the start, a young person is immersed in a 24-hour-a-day structured discipline. For example, he arises at 7:30 a.m., immediately begins to clean his room and eats breakfast. Then, his day continues with meetings, seminars, group therapy sessions (held every day), and specific work responsibilities. Every
hour of the individual's time is programmed. He interacts with others during free time, and is accountable for everything he says and does. Special "probes" (lasting 8 to 12 hours) explore self-defeating attitude patterns. "Marathons" (30-hour extended group-therapy sessions) are aimed at breaking down emotional defenses, and getting members of AREBA in contact with gut-level feelings.

Phase II — Fifth month through seventh month

In the next phase of treatment, a young person starts to attend school a?ain.
Or, if he is through with school, he goes to work outside of the AREBA community. He is encouraged to apply what he has been learning in phase I training. Hut he continues to live in the AREBA community, and continues to be involved in Dr. Casriel's new identity groups, probes, marathons, etc. In therapeutic sessions, the emphasis is on helping the individual express his fears and anxieties, and helping him learn how to function more effectively in the expanded world to which he is now relating.

Phase III — Eighth and ninth months

In the final phase of treatment, an individual both works and lives outside of
the AREBA community. His involvement with AREBA is to attend encounter and
new identity groups three times a week. During these groups, he works on feelings and attitudes which may be preventing him from adjusting healthily to the non-therapeutic "outside world." He also spends time serving as a role model for people entering AREBA for the first time.

Parents get training, too

Throughout the 9-month period, special groups and special counseling are provided for parents of young people who are in the AREBA program. With parents, the emphasis is on establishing a permanently better relationship Between themselves and their offspring.
Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
Post by: Anonymous on August 18, 2009, 05:27:33 AM
Where is this AREBA stuff? Its not on your link.
Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
Post by: Inculcated on August 18, 2009, 06:02:54 AM
The article above was entered as [Exhibit Xo. 14 (d)]  in the congressional hearings cited and linked on the Narco Farm thread.
Items submitted included Casriel’s CV and publications: http://www.archive.org/stream/narcotics (http://www.archive.org/stream/narcotics) ... t_djvu.txt
The http://www.dan-casriel-institut.de/ (http://www.dan-casriel-institut.de/)  relates to The Casriel Institute : the treatment and training facility for the new identity group process and theory.

From the site link:
We see ourselves as a place where
 People can learn to bind and to beziehungsfähig
 are afraid of intimacy and love and to the ability to
 Love to give and to develop.
  Mr. Alber Clinic in the Dr. Ingo Gerstenberg 1975 to 1980 worked under the then chief Dr. Walther Lechler, was a saying,
 has accompanied us:
 "As long as man is not even in the eyes and hearts of his fellow human beings encounter, he is on the run as long as it does not allow his fellow man in his innermost part, there is no security for him.  As long as he is afraid to be understood, he can neither himself nor others recognize
 he will be alone. "(R. Beauvais)
This is an odd translation of the Daytop philosophy^
 
Incidentally,
Richard Beauvais, Co-Founder of
Wellspring, was honored on
September 1, 2006 at the World
Federation of Therapeutic
Communities [WFTC] Conference
in NYC for his authorship of “The
Daytop Philosophy.” The poem,
written in 1964 when Richard
worked at Daytop,


Wellspring http://www.wellspring.org/WS_Home.htm (http://www.wellspring.org/WS_Home.htm) And spawn anon and on
Title: Re: it never ends
Post by: Inculcated on August 18, 2009, 06:14:38 AM
The Wellspring Foundation is a multi-service mental health agency that provides intensive residential treatment for children age 6 - 12, adolescent girls age 13 - 18, and adults

Richard Beauvais
P.O. Box 370
Bethlehem, CT 06751
(203)-659-0579
Their primary focus seems to be children and the girls facility.
He’s also listed with the The Attachment Disorder Support Group
http://adsg.syix.com/adsg/therapists/frmain.htm (http://adsg.syix.com/adsg/therapists/frmain.htm)
 ::puke::
Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
Post by: Anonymous on August 21, 2009, 05:19:25 PM
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "Magnificent"
As a former staff from Daytop I can tell you that they did share the history and connection to Synanon.  The conection was simply that the model was utiltized to develope what Daytop would be but it wasn't a deal where they walked around talking about Synanon in fact it was stressed that Synanon broke a lot of rules and became a cult.  The Florida program did have some NY staff who went to help get it started but I'm not sure what all happened with those people I've been gone for some time.

If I remember correctly, wasn't it David Deitch that came over from Synanon to help light a fire, so to speak, under operations at Daytop? I don't think Synanon was yet recognized as a cult (back then); it was still receiving government funding and in fact, had a branch in the New York City area and, for a time, also in Connecticut.

There were a few TCs started in the metropolitan New York area in the early 60s; I might be off by a few years, but I seem to recall that Daytop was one, and Phoenix House was another. I also seem to recall that Art Barker (later of The Seed) was allegedly living in Brooklyn or the Bronx during that same time period.

Early on, either Daytop or Phoenix House, or both, worked out a deal with the city whereby men convicted of non-lethal crimes involving alcohol or drugs were given the option of doing their time at the TC instead of jail. I was wondering, do you know whether Barker was in such a situation and availed himself of TC time instead of jail-time? He was reputed to be somewhat of a rabble-rouser back then.

One last question:

    "The Florida program did have some NY staff who went to help get it started but I'm not sure what all happened with those people I've been gone for some time."[/list]
    Are you saying that Daytop specifically did send people down to The Seed program in Florida to help them get started? Do you know whether any other TC, e.g., Phoenix House or Synanon or Gaudenzia (Philly), or any other government programs also did so?

    thnx

    As our resident researcher, you may consider copying and pasting all pertinent self incriminating material before it is retracted from the datasphere
    Title: Re: Daytopic references/ program influences
    Post by: Inculcated on December 05, 2009, 03:52:41 AM
    Daytopic program influences included among other program related references as originally Posted by Awake in other threads can be viewed at the following:
    mk ultra (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27862&p=351344&hilit=+Daytop#p351344)
    How you couldn’t really “fake it” (Act as if) (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29150&p=350674&hilit=+Daytop#p350674)
    Cedu: Developing the program (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26020&p=324276&hilit=+daytop#p324276)
    Quote
    The most comprehensive compilation of criticisms of the group movement has been presented by Howard (1970). She notes that critics have claimed that groups:
    (1) cause stirring wonderful things to happen, but the effects of these are not valid because they do not last; (2) use ridiculous jargon; (3) are pointless; . (4) invade privacy; ’ ’ (5) are anti-intellectual; (6) cheapen real emotion; (7) are guilty of phoniness; (8) lead to emotional elitism; (9) may get to be a cult; ( I 0) hypnotize their members; ( I 1 ) can be run by charlatans who are corrupt or mediocre; (12) foster sexual promiscuity; ( 13) encourage physical violence; , (14) do psychological damage; ( 15) are a hotbed of junkies and dope addicts; and (16) can be fatal.
    Stoller, the foremost systematizer of the marathon, had far too short a period to develop his views. We are told (Kovacs, 1971: 12) that Stoller wanted to develop a new kind of growth center where all these techniques [i.e., psychotherapy, gestalt exercises, body movement techniques, encounter phenomena, and the myriad other burgeoning techniques which characterize our field] could be integrated in a sequential, systematic fashion and tied together by an organized theoretical system he was developing.
    It would be unfortunate for the potential of the marathon to be unintentionally squandered by overzealous and indiscriminate application in contexts and for individuals for whom it is not appropriate. This is particularly important since there are already concerns among professionals and laymen alike about the potential intentional misuse of the marathon for devious purposes, such as brainwashing.
    Finally, despite the maelstrom of controversy, it is important to keep in mind that there is potential for future society to benefit greatly from wise use of the marathon group. It appears that we have a tornado in a bottle, wondering how we can best release its power for the good of mankind, yet fearful for its potential (Day, 1970: 423).
    Here’s some Daytopian eloquence: Eupsychia, my ass.
    Title: Re: Daytopic references/ program influences
    Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2009, 06:21:07 PM
    Quote from: "Inculcated"
    Daytopic program influences included among other program related references as originally Posted by Awake in other threads can be viewed at the following:
    mk ultra (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27862&p=351344&hilit=+Daytop#p351344)
    How you couldn’t really “fake it” (Act as if) (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29150&p=350674&hilit=+Daytop#p350674)
    Cedu: Developing the program (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26020&p=324276&hilit=+daytop#p324276)
    Quote
    The most comprehensive compilation of criticisms of the group movement has been presented by Howard (1970). She notes that critics have claimed that groups:
    (1) cause stirring wonderful things to happen, but the effects of these are not valid because they do not last; (2) use ridiculous jargon; (3) are pointless; . (4) invade privacy; ’ ’ (5) are anti-intellectual; (6) cheapen real emotion; (7) are guilty of phoniness; (8) lead to emotional elitism; (9) may get to be a cult; ( I 0) hypnotize their members; ( I 1 ) can be run by charlatans who are corrupt or mediocre; (12) foster sexual promiscuity; ( 13) encourage physical violence; , (14) do psychological damage; ( 15) are a hotbed of junkies and dope addicts; and (16) can be fatal.
    Stoller, the foremost systematizer of the marathon, had far too short a period to develop his views. We are told (Kovacs, 1971: 12) that Stoller wanted to develop a new kind of growth center where all these techniques [i.e., psychotherapy, gestalt exercises, body movement techniques, encounter phenomena, and the myriad other burgeoning techniques which characterize our field] could be integrated in a sequential, systematic fashion and tied together by an organized theoretical system he was developing.
    It would be unfortunate for the potential of the marathon to be unintentionally squandered by overzealous and indiscriminate application in contexts and for individuals for whom it is not appropriate. This is particularly important since there are already concerns among professionals and laymen alike about the potential intentional misuse of the marathon for devious purposes, such as brainwashing.
    Finally, despite the maelstrom of controversy, it is important to keep in mind that there is potential for future society to benefit greatly from wise use of the marathon group. It appears that we have a tornado in a bottle, wondering how we can best release its power for the good of mankind, yet fearful for its potential (Day, 1970: 423).
    Here’s some Daytopian eloquence: Eupsychia, my ass.
      "AMEN"
    Title: Re: Daytopic references/ program influences
    Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2009, 06:42:21 PM
    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
    Quote from: "Inculcated"
    Daytopic program influences included among other program related references as originally Posted by Awake in other threads can be viewed at the following:
    mk ultra (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27862&p=351344&hilit=+Daytop#p351344)
    How you couldn’t really “fake it” (Act as if) (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29150&p=350674&hilit=+Daytop#p350674)
    Cedu: Developing the program (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26020&p=324276&hilit=+daytop#p324276)
    Quote
    The most comprehensive compilation of criticisms of the group movement has been presented by Howard (1970). She notes that critics have claimed that groups:
    (1) cause stirring wonderful things to happen, but the effects of these are not valid because they do not last; (2) use ridiculous jargon; (3) are pointless; . (4) invade privacy; ’ ’ (5) are anti-intellectual; (6) cheapen real emotion; (7) are guilty of phoniness; (8) lead to emotional elitism; (9) may get to be a cult; ( I 0) hypnotize their members; ( I 1 ) can be run by charlatans who are corrupt or mediocre; (12) foster sexual promiscuity; ( 13) encourage physical violence; , (14) do psychological damage; ( 15) are a hotbed of junkies and dope addicts; and (16) can be fatal.
    Stoller, the foremost systematizer of the marathon, had far too short a period to develop his views. We are told (Kovacs, 1971: 12) that Stoller wanted to develop a new kind of growth center where all these techniques [i.e., psychotherapy, gestalt exercises, body movement techniques, encounter phenomena, and the myriad other burgeoning techniques which characterize our field] could be integrated in a sequential, systematic fashion and tied together by an organized theoretical system he was developing.
    It would be unfortunate for the potential of the marathon to be unintentionally squandered by overzealous and indiscriminate application in contexts and for individuals for whom it is not appropriate. This is particularly important since there are already concerns among professionals and laymen alike about the potential intentional misuse of the marathon for devious purposes, such as brainwashing.
    Finally, despite the maelstrom of controversy, it is important to keep in mind that there is potential for future society to benefit greatly from wise use of the marathon group. It appears that we have a tornado in a bottle, wondering how we can best release its power for the good of mankind, yet fearful for its potential (Day, 1970: 423).
    Here’s some Daytopian eloquence: Eupsychia, my ass.
      "AMEN"
    Incucated, you seem to have a lot of info either stored or available to you by other means which to say, is not important to my point here I will be getting to. Were you a resident of this particular program Daytop and where were you a resident of NYC, Ct, or Fla? My interest is sparked because you seem to have a knack for staying out of verbal insults/sparring and try to give pertinent info. Not that I agree with everything "you say" personally.  You seem to have evolved into a person w/o resentment towards this institution and that is nothing short of a miracle, especially if you endured the abuse they doled out. Which I don't doubt. I took some liberties here with your posting to form these questions.
    Title: Re: Reply to Semper Fidelis’(Always Faithful) inquiry :
    Post by: Inculcated on December 09, 2009, 07:36:37 PM
    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
    Incucated, you seem to have a lot of info either stored or available to you by other means which to say, is not important to my point here I will be getting to. Were you a resident of this particular program Daytop and where were you a resident of NYC, Ct, or Fla? .
    Yes, I was a resident in Daytop. I was in three of the NY locations following day treatment in Texas.

    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
    My interest is sparked because you seem to have a knack for staying out of verbal insults/sparring and try to give pertinent info. Not that I agree with everything "you say" personally. .
    Thank you for the former.I have no such expectation of the latter.
    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
     You seem to have evolved into a person w/o resentment towards this institution and that is nothing short of a miracle, especially if you endured the abuse they doled out. Which I don't doubt..
    I do have strongly negative feelings toward the practices and “practitioners” of the Daytop program; that are based on my experience of them and for all that they have inflicted on others.
    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
     I took some liberties here with your posting to form these questions.
    I don’t find this inquiry to be off-putting or forward.
    Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
    Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2009, 08:31:48 PM
    I have one very large question are any of these Apples that fell from the tree of (Syn.) fruitfull at all or is this whole Philosophy/ Method doomed from it's Genisis.  I am not a scholar on this matter but I have huge interest b/cuz I was a resident of these treatment centers it has been many yrs. since. My mind and heart has been extremely influenced by this entire web. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So happy to see ex-residents being this educated and helping one another. You know you would think that the phrase "ONE ADDICT HELPING ANOTHER" has finally found a true meaning and service on this site . Just some thoughts not to go on to much here. But there is something to be said for that slogan.
    Title: Re: Reply to Semper Fi
    Post by: Inculcated on December 10, 2009, 01:10:30 AM
    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
    I have one very large question are any of these Apples that fell from the tree of (Syn.) fruitfull at all or is this whole Philosophy/ Method doomed from it's Genisis .
    That is a large question. Synanon derivatives operate on basic concepts that have complex consequences.  Doomed would not in my opinion apply to them per se, considering how they’ve proliferated. Unnecessarily destructive, harmful and ranging from cruel to cultic under the guise of therapeutics would in my opinion apply. There is a lot of information available for you to draw your own conclusions.
    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
    I am not a scholar on this matter but I have huge interest b/cuz I was a resident of these treatment centers it has been many yrs. since.
    Which treatment centers were you in and where?
    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
    My mind and heart has been extremely influenced by this entire web. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So happy to see ex-residents being this educated and helping one another. You know you would think that the phrase "ONE ADDICT HELPING ANOTHER" has finally found a true meaning and service on this site .
    There are all kinds of people here.
    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
    Just some thoughts not to go on to much here .
    Quote from: "Semper Fi"
    But there is something to be said for that slogan .

    I have an aversion to them (slogans).
    Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
    Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 14, 2011, 07:14:47 PM
    Quote from: "Ursus"
    Quote from: "Magnificent"
    As a former staff from Daytop I can tell you that they did share the history and connection to Synanon.  The conection was simply that the model was utiltized to develope what Daytop would be but it wasn't a deal where they walked around talking about Synanon in fact it was stressed that Synanon broke a lot of rules and became a cult.  The Florida program did have some NY staff who went to help get it started but I'm not sure what all happened with those people I've been gone for some time.


    One last question:

      "The Florida program did have some NY staff who went to help get it started but I'm not sure what all happened with those people I've been gone for some time."[/list]
      Are you saying that Daytop specifically did send people down to The Seed program in Florida to help them get started? Do you know whether any other TC, e.g., Phoenix House or Synanon or Gaudenzia (Philly), or any other government programs also did so?

      thnx

      Magnificent, where are you ??  We need this question answered.
      Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
      Post by: SEKTO on January 14, 2011, 07:48:16 PM
      Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??

      Is the Pope Catholic?

      Read You Can't Do It Alone! (by O'Brien) for more information.
      Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
      Post by: dragonfly on January 14, 2011, 08:21:42 PM
      Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
      Post by: SEKTO on January 15, 2011, 11:22:19 AM
      Quote from: "dragonfly"
      Can anybody verify or speculate with accuracy about this and other links to origins of SEED?

      dragonfly:  please limit discussion pertaining to the origins of SEED, to the SEED discussion forum.  Thank you.

      viewforum.php?f=8 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=8)
      Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
      Post by: Alvasin on January 15, 2011, 12:04:11 PM
      Actually what is going on?Is there anything really between them?What will happen if there is really something like that.And what effect if otherwise?
      Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
      Post by: SEKTO on January 15, 2011, 12:27:33 PM
      To whom it may concern:

      Please limit discussion pertaining to the origins of SEED, to the SEED discussion forum.  

      Thank you.

      viewforum.php?f=8 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=8)
      Title: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
      Post by: Inculcated on January 15, 2011, 01:15:53 PM
      The OP of this thread topic (posted five years ago) started with a pertinent question about connections between Synanon and Daytop and included a follow up question about The Seed
      Quote from: "starry-eyed pirate"
      i was in str8 85-87 and i am wonderin' if Daytop is/was an offshoot of Synanon.  Does anyone have an answer ??  Any information anyone can provide on this subject is greatly appreciated.
      i am also wonderin' if any Daytop staff or former clients were ever on staff at the Seed in FLA.  Does anyone know ??
      Four years after that an answer by a guest poster named “Magnificent” (reads as follows) and was quoted by Dragonfly in his post which included a little mention about his attempts to contact Deitch and a question which returns to the op’s follow up question
      Quote from: "dragonfly"
      Quote from: "Magnificent"
      As a former staff from Daytop I can tell you that they did share the history and connection to Synanon.  The conection was simply that the model was utiltized to develope what Daytop would be but it wasn't a deal where they walked around talking about Synanon in fact it was stressed that Synanon broke a lot of rules and became a cult.  The Florida program did have some NY staff who went to help get it started but I'm not sure what all happened with those people I've been gone for some time.
      I called three different offices today hoping that somebody will give me contact info for David Deitch....I'm gonna ask him myself I hope....Can anybody verify or speculate with accuracy about this and other links to origins of SEED?

      As anyone would see while reading along the thread early examples of my finding information about what Daytop begat are posted along this thread and not all about  strictly Daytop Synanon connections, but also programs started by those who had some connection to Daytop or are just Daytop with a different sign around its’ neck.

      So it’s a great question Dragonfly and while I don’t have an intention of personally undertaking trying to unearth researching that, since there are and have been many others better situated to do so, I will post any Daytop and The Seed connections  that I happen to come across about here.

      Or I will post a new thread in the Daytop forum called programs that Daytop “change agents” created, influenced or stopped by to borrow a frickin cup of sugar from one day and include it there.
      Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
      Post by: SEKTO on January 15, 2011, 01:16:58 PM
      To whom it may concern:

      It's very simple.

      Please limit discussion pertaining to the origins of SEED, to the SEED discussion forum.

      Thank you.
      Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
      Post by: Inculcated on January 15, 2011, 01:22:54 PM
      Since I happen to think that discussion about the interrelation of these programs is pertinent to this thread and any questions or answers regarding possible connections to Daytop and other programs is the topic of this thread
      I respectfully say no.
      Title: Re: Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop ??
      Post by: SEKTO on January 15, 2011, 03:58:03 PM
      Quote from: "Inculcated"
      Since I happen to think that discussion about the interrelation of these programs is pertinent to this thread and any questions or answers regarding possible connections to Daytop and other programs is the topic of this thread
      I respectfully say no.

      The name of this thread is, "Is there any relationship between Synanon and Daytop??"

      We have established that the answer to this question is definitively, "yes."

      I shall therefore start a thread (within the DAYTOP forum) named, ""Is there any relationship between the SEED and Daytop??"

      Case closed.