Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2005, 10:12:00 PM
As we've gathered information we've heard many negative reports about Hyde. We'd like to know how accurate these reports are. The most frequent comments we've heard from families that used to be affiliated with the school are:
-- Hyde accepts almost everyone who applies. Is that because they think they can handle any student or because they need the income? Is there a real high attrition rate (people who leave after a year or so)? Why is that?
-- Hyde staff can be very demeaning, insulting, and controlling. Students who don't buy into the school's philosophy have lots of trouble.
-- Many Hyde teachers are very young, inexperienced and have little training in working with challenging adolescents.
-- Students and parents are required to share very personal information about their lives in groups of strangers. We've heard that these groups and seminars are a lot like therapy groups and are run by teachers and parents who don't know much about how to handle these issues. We've heard that some students and parents feel just awful about their experiences in these groups, but feel like they have to go.
-- A number of people have described Hyde as a sort of cult with lots of staff who are relatives of each other. We've heard that that the man who started the school (Gauld or Gould?) can be like a control freak who insists that everyone think like he thinks.
We'd appreciate any additional information you can offer.
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2005, 10:34:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2005, 10:53:00 PM
Post by: tommyfromhyde1 on September 25, 2005, 11:08:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-09-24 19:12:00, Anonymous wrote:When I was there in the '70s I was in with a heroin user
"Several of you seem to know a lot about the Hyde School. We have a few more questions so we can really understand what we may be getting ourselves into. What we've heard about the lawsuit and other issues troubles us. But we've also heard some positive things about how the school focuses on character education and accountability. They also seem to be willing to help struggling kids.
Quote
Again, in the '70s a kid ran away every couple of weeks.
As we've gathered information we've heard many negative reports about Hyde. We'd like to know how accurate these reports are. The most frequent comments we've heard from families that used to be affiliated with the school are:
-- Hyde accepts almost everyone who applies. Is that because they think they can handle any student or because they need the income? Is there a real high attrition rate (people who leave after a year or so)? Why is that?
Me among them.
Quote
Not just staff, seniors are given authority over
-- Hyde staff can be very demeaning, insulting, and controlling. Students who don't buy into the school's philosophy have lots of trouble.
younger students and are worse.
Quote
It's the same kind of attack therapy once done
-- Students and parents are required to share very personal information about their lives in groups of strangers. We've heard that these groups and seminars are a lot like therapy groups and are run by teachers and parents who don't know much about how to handle these issues. We've heard that some students and parents feel just awful about their experiences in these groups, but feel like they have to go.
at places like Synanon and Straight, Inc. but
just once a week.
Quote
It's Joe Gauld, and yes he is a control freak.
-- A number of people have described Hyde as a sort of cult with lots of staff who are relatives of each other. We've heard that that the man who started the school (Gauld or Gould?) can be like a control freak who insists that everyone think like he thinks.
He used to brag that he once fired a teacher in
the '60s for being against the Vietnam War.
Quote
We'd appreciate any additional information you can offer."
If there's a worse idea going than locking people up for drug use, it's probably locking them up in close proximity to some tyranical altruist who wants to 'help' them with a problem that probably doesn't exist
-- Ginger Warbis
having had about all the help I can stand!
Post by: Anonymous on September 25, 2005, 12:13:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 25, 2005, 03:30:00 PM
-- Hyde staff can be very demeaning, insulting, and controlling. Students who don't buy into the school's philosophy have lots of trouble.
-- Many Hyde teachers are very young, inexperienced and have little training in working with challenging adolescents.
-- Students and parents are required to share very personal information about their lives in groups of strangers. We've heard that these groups and seminars are a lot like therapy groups and are run by teachers and parents who don't know much about how to handle these issues. We've heard that some students and parents feel just awful about their experiences in these groups, but feel like they have to go.
-- A number of people have described Hyde as a sort of cult with lots of staff who are relatives of each other. We've heard that that the man who started the school (Gauld or Gould?) can be like a control freak who insists that everyone think like he thinks.
**************************************************
Yes, all true. It is a Cult, they do accept almost all who apply, the public intrusion into parents person lives is unhealthy, (almost sick) for students to hear, the teachers have no training in the field of psychology yet are put in charge of kids with drug addictions, eating disorders, suicidal tendencies, etc.
What more do you want to know???? It is a dangerous place and yes, Joe Gauld does think his teachings are the answer to all of societies problems.
On the other hand many people in this world reach out to these types of Cults whether it be a religious one or otherwise. These are people in society who can't survive without a crutch. Many of the faculty at Hyde are there for these same reasons. Some see the frightening Cult atmosphere and leave after the first year. The ones who do stay don't "grow", they stay stagnant in life. Although some kids might make progress while in the school, many slide back the day they leave. Much of the progress in some students would happen with or without Hyde. It is part of the process of growing up and maturing, which can be done more successfully by giving your child lots of love, encouragement, and family counseling with a licensed Psychologist if necessary!! Save yourself a lot of money and invest your time in your child, not in making these people rich!
Post by: Anonymous on September 25, 2005, 03:34:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-09-25 09:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yes, I too have experienced Joe Gauld (and have heard many tales about him). He seems to enjoy giving pedantic and patronizing lectures about how people should manage their lives, having people sit at his feet to hear his pearls of wisdom, and confronting people who view the world differently. That kind of behavior seems remarkably like that of a cult leader and just the opposite of what Hyde claims to promote: humility. It's that sort of hypocrisy that drives many people away from Hyde. Some people -- perhaps those who are desperate to hear someone in authority tell them how to "fix" their kids and run their lives -- seem attracted to this and stay at Hyde; many others leave the school, which helps to explain the high attrition rate. "
You forgot to mention what a great golf swing Joe has!! This is what he does best while strong arming the parents for money. You don't give......you aren't committed! One poster defended the tactic of fundraising by saying this is instead of raising the tuition! NOT TRUE! Tuition is raised plenty through the years while still demanding donations!
Post by: tommyfromhyde1 on September 25, 2005, 05:59:00 PM
stuff was why I always seemed to be on the shit
list at Hyde. You see, my parents just didn't
have it to give. So, I belive that Hyde considered
them deadbeats and wanted me to run.
We must create an atmosphere where the crooked cop fears the honest cop, and not the other way around.
Frank Serpico
Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2005, 01:59:00 PM
The Hyde staff are not ball-busters...they demand excellence from your kid, just like you will eventually do. They see your child's best and expect that from them at all times.
It's true that Hyde has a young group of faculty members, just like any boarding school..they also have an expereinced group that have been there for years..most with advanced degrees that guide and train the new staff members. If you look at a list of faculty members from 3 years ago..you'll see the same names of senior faculty members and a good amount of younger faculty, but just like anywhere else, they like to go on to get their advanced degrees or try a new teaching experience and many come back to teach a few years down the road.
You ARE expected "to get deep" in seminars and regional meetings. There's a reason you are looking at a school like Hyde...something's not only wrong with your kid..something's very wrong with the family or environment they are growing up in, until that is changed, there's very little the school can do. The people who are posting on this site about the cult environment or the fact that Hyde sucks...they failed to mention that their kid and their family are still screwed up, because nobody wants to face the music and make a change.
As far as Joe Gauld goes...his involvement in the school is quite minimal. He does a meeting every weekend on both campuses for the parents who are up for an FLC, but other than that he's out working on the very successful charter school program. Washington, DC has a school of 770 K-12 kids and a new school opened this fall in Oakland, CA. NYC will open next fall. His son is the President and his daughters both work at the schools, one is the Head of School in Bath and the other (who went to school with Tommy) is the head of family ed in Woodstock.
Speaking of Tommy...dude, you need to be a big boy and go visit Bath or Woodstock and see what's going on there...it's VERY different from when we were there.
Folks, You're hearing from the Hyde failures on this site..not the successes that out number these boobs 20-1. If you're thinking about attending either of the Hyde Schools, go there for an interview....it's free and they won't drug and kidnap you..you'll see first hand what's going on and get an honest outlook from the student tour guides...you'll be wonderfully refreshed at how candid they are.
Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2005, 10:17:00 PM
First, all the available evidence suggests that the admission rate is MUCH higher than your 1-out-of-3 figure. Published information on Hyde's admission rate suggests that it's upward of 80-some percent. I'd encourage you to double-check your claim.
Further, your understanding of reasons for the high attrition rate seems incomplete. You may be right that some families leave because of the kid's improvement and their wish to save money. But, during our affiliation with Hyde during the past 2+ years I've spoken with many, many families who leave the school with feelings of deep resentment and disgust. At first I was concerned because I was worried about the school's future; now I understand much better why people leave (we're heading in that direction). You may believe families leave because the parents haven't bought into the Hyde model or been willing to examine their own issues. That may be true of some. But many more, I'm convinced, are turned off by Hyde's tendency toward patronizing, arrogrant, and controlling treatment of kids and families.
Yes, Hyde's use of many young faculty may not be unusual. However, what's unusual -- and unconscionable, I've come to realize -- is that these remarkably young faculty (some of whom disclose lots of information about their own personal struggles) are expected to oversee family seminars during which students and parents disclose the most incredibly personal information. I've now sat through many seminars and can't believe that no one has put a stop to this dangerous practice. I've seen kids yell at parents, parents scream at and threaten kids, and participants talk about their wish to end their lives, incest, affairs, addictions, etc. -- and all of this is being run by someone who teaches history (or whatever)! It's incredible. You may not want to believe it, but quite a few families leave the school because of their sense of horror. The ones I've met are not at all inclined to run away from their problems. They simply want a setting that's run more skillfully and professionally by staff who have proper training and life experience, and are less doctrinaire and arrogant.
You say Joe Gauld's involvement is minimal. That's true if one counts the minutes he's around. But have you sat in those large group meetings where he pontificates and lectures in an incredibly doctrinaire way to parents about how they ought to run their lives? Do you really think he's not influencing parents, staff, and Hyde's entire ethos? His style seems to fly in the face of Hyde's claim about humility. The hypocrisy is very troubling.
I agree that the student tour guides can be impressive. They're also hand picked and, in my experience during the past couple of years, not at all representative of the broader student body. I'd encourage prospective parents to approach a random cross-section of kids to get a more realistic picture of Hyde. A major part of the problem, I think, is that Hyde's enthusiasts aren't willing to listen -- really listen -- to thoughtful critics. They tend to surround themselves with like-minded Hyde boosters. Criticism about Hyde tends to be viewed as sacrilege.
Did you read the Traub article about Hyde that someone posted on this site? In my opinion, that's a much more objective, candid, and honest description of this remarkably complex, controversial, and too often destructive school.
Post by: Anonymous on September 27, 2005, 08:29:00 AM
With the leadership of Vice Chair Caroline Kennedy, the Fund for Public Schools seeks critical funding for system-wide educational reform initiatives throughout the New York City public schools; helps businesses partner with individual public schools and programs; supports volunteering and reaches out to all of New York City to create awareness about our public schools? needs.
Founded in 1982, the Fund for Public Schools is currently under the direction of CEO Leslie Koch. It has been reinvigorated under the leadership of Mayor Bloomberg and Chancellor Klein who have prioritized public-private partnerships as a critical component of the Children First reform agenda for public education.
Post by: Anonymous on September 27, 2005, 11:02:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-09-26 19:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
Yes, Hyde's use of many young faculty may not be unusual. However, what's unusual -- and unconscionable, I've come to realize -- is that these remarkably young faculty (some of whom disclose lots of information about their own personal struggles) are expected to oversee family seminars during which students and parents disclose the most incredibly personal information. I've now sat through many seminars and can't believe that no one has put a stop to this dangerous practice. I've seen kids yell at parents, parents scream at and threaten kids, and participants talk about their wish to end their lives, incest, affairs, addictions, etc. -- and all of this is being run by someone who teaches history (or whatever)! It's incredible. You may not want to believe it, but quite a few families leave the school because of their sense of horror. The ones I've met are not at all inclined to run away from their problems. They simply want a setting that's run more skillfully and professionally by staff who have proper training and life experience, and are less doctrinaire and arrogant.
Could Hyde faculty or staff please explain more about this? How can one talk about incest, affairs, etc in a public forum with both students and parents?
This seems almost criminal to force kids to partake in this type of a seminar. I say "force" because according to all that is written on this website, it is mandatory to participate in these seminars. I am disgusted in what I am reading and wonder if the state or county school board has looked into this! How can these Charter Schools be opening with this type of format?
Post by: Anonymous on September 27, 2005, 11:42:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on September 27, 2005, 12:00:00 PM
15 year old kids do not need to be exposed to violence, drugs, sex and marital problems especially with what goes on in other people's households! Save it for adulthood, not to be taught in school!!
Sounds like some of these kids need psychological counseling, not Hyde!! Maybe this is where the problem lies. Possibly Hyde should not be accepting all of these families when they don't have the proper staff to handle these situations!
Post by: Anonymous on September 27, 2005, 04:42:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 27, 2005, 05:08:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 27, 2005, 07:48:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-09-27 14:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My impression is that there are a number of people who would like to share their concerns about Hyde with the NYC Fund for Public Schools. Do you happen to have contact information?"
By Mail:
The Fund for Public Schools
52 Chambers Street - Room 305
New York, NY 10007
By Phone:
212-374-2874
By Fax:
212-374-5571
By Email:
http://www.nycenet.edu/Contact/ (http://www.nycenet.edu/Contact/)
Post by: Anonymous on September 28, 2005, 12:31:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-09-26 19:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Until now I've been a very casual and occasional observer of this site. Having read your comments, however, I feel compelled to respond. I'm basing my response on my experience as a Hyde parent during the past two and a fraction years. It's taken our family some time to realize and truly appreciate Hyde's shortcomings and destructive practices. We've recently discovered how many disgruntled families are out there -- word is spreading, we're learning.
First, all the available evidence suggests that the admission rate is MUCH higher than your 1-out-of-3 figure. Published information on Hyde's admission rate suggests that it's upward of 80-some percent. I'd encourage you to double-check your claim.
Further, your understanding of reasons for the high attrition rate seems incomplete. You may be right that some families leave because of the kid's improvement and their wish to save money. But, during our affiliation with Hyde during the past 2+ years I've spoken with many, many families who leave the school with feelings of deep resentment and disgust. At first I was concerned because I was worried about the school's future; now I understand much better why people leave (we're heading in that direction). You may believe families leave because the parents haven't bought into the Hyde model or been willing to examine their own issues. That may be true of some. But many more, I'm convinced, are turned off by Hyde's tendency toward patronizing, arrogrant, and controlling treatment of kids and families.
Yes, Hyde's use of many young faculty may not be unusual. However, what's unusual -- and unconscionable, I've come to realize -- is that these remarkably young faculty (some of whom disclose lots of information about their own personal struggles) are expected to oversee family seminars during which students and parents disclose the most incredibly personal information. I've now sat through many seminars and can't believe that no one has put a stop to this dangerous practice. I've seen kids yell at parents, parents scream at and threaten kids, and participants talk about their wish to end their lives, incest, affairs, addictions, etc. -- and all of this is being run by someone who teaches history (or whatever)! It's incredible. You may not want to believe it, but quite a few families leave the school because of their sense of horror. The ones I've met are not at all inclined to run away from their problems. They simply want a setting that's run more skillfully and professionally by staff who have proper training and life experience, and are less doctrinaire and arrogant.
You say Joe Gauld's involvement is minimal. That's true if one counts the minutes he's around. But have you sat in those large group meetings where he pontificates and lectures in an incredibly doctrinaire way to parents about how they ought to run their lives? Do you really think he's not influencing parents, staff, and Hyde's entire ethos? His style seems to fly in the face of Hyde's claim about humility. The hypocrisy is very troubling.
I agree that the student tour guides can be impressive. They're also hand picked and, in my experience during the past couple of years, not at all representative of the broader student body. I'd encourage prospective parents to approach a random cross-section of kids to get a more realistic picture of Hyde. A major part of the problem, I think, is that Hyde's enthusiasts aren't willing to listen -- really listen -- to thoughtful critics. They tend to surround themselves with like-minded Hyde boosters. Criticism about Hyde tends to be viewed as sacrilege.
Did you read the Traub article about Hyde that someone posted on this site? In my opinion, that's a much more objective, candid, and honest description of this remarkably complex, controversial, and too often destructive school."
Honestly, I have read many of the posts on this site about Hyde and I find them more and more frustrating.
I think that the charter school in NYC is such an amazing idea because I've known people from the charter school in DC who have had wonderful experiences (check out the NPR story - Jesse Jean, a friend of mine, and a great kid)
I graduated last year and I am now at a very competitive liberal arts college, I did well at the school and although I disagreed with many things and it was not easy for me, I do accredit a lot of who I am today to the things I went through at that school.
As for the tour guides who are hand picked, you are wrong. Unless the person is completely off-track, they can give a tour, and in fact sometimes very off-track kids do give tours because it's a good experience.
It is not the place for everyone, but if anything it is a far more meaningful experience than the average public high school. Not everyone can handle it, but it depends on your maturity, it is nonsense to call the school a cult. And in terms of the teachers, some of the most amazing people work at that school. They are young, but consider the commitment that embody in spending 24 hours a day at a school like that. In fact, the thing that I was most grateful for at that school was the amazing faculty, who were willing to have conversations with me all the time, or invite me in to their home when I was having a bad day, or just let me do homework in their house.
Most of the kids who are saying these EXXAGERATIONS AND MISINTERPRETATIONS are probably bitter because people were honest with them, and they could not handle it.
I would not usually imagine myself sticking up for the school, because I had a very difficult time there, but most of what people are saying is simply not true.
Post by: Anonymous on September 28, 2005, 07:49:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-09-27 21:31:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-09-26 19:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Until now I've been a very casual and occasional observer of this site. Having read your comments, however, I feel compelled to respond. I'm basing my response on my experience as a Hyde parent during the past two and a fraction years. It's taken our family some time to realize and truly appreciate Hyde's shortcomings and destructive practices. We've recently discovered how many disgruntled families are out there -- word is spreading, we're learning.
First, all the available evidence suggests that the admission rate is MUCH higher than your 1-out-of-3 figure. Published information on Hyde's admission rate suggests that it's upward of 80-some percent. I'd encourage you to double-check your claim.
Further, your understanding of reasons for the high attrition rate seems incomplete. You may be right that some families leave because of the kid's improvement and their wish to save money. But, during our affiliation with Hyde during the past 2+ years I've spoken with many, many families who leave the school with feelings of deep resentment and disgust. At first I was concerned because I was worried about the school's future; now I understand much better why people leave (we're heading in that direction). You may believe families leave because the parents haven't bought into the Hyde model or been willing to examine their own issues. That may be true of some. But many more, I'm convinced, are turned off by Hyde's tendency toward patronizing, arrogrant, and controlling treatment of kids and families.
Yes, Hyde's use of many young faculty may not be unusual. However, what's unusual -- and unconscionable, I've come to realize -- is that these remarkably young faculty (some of whom disclose lots of information about their own personal struggles) are expected to oversee family seminars during which students and parents disclose the most incredibly personal information. I've now sat through many seminars and can't believe that no one has put a stop to this dangerous practice. I've seen kids yell at parents, parents scream at and threaten kids, and participants talk about their wish to end their lives, incest, affairs, addictions, etc. -- and all of this is being run by someone who teaches history (or whatever)! It's incredible. You may not want to believe it, but quite a few families leave the school because of their sense of horror. The ones I've met are not at all inclined to run away from their problems. They simply want a setting that's run more skillfully and professionally by staff who have proper training and life experience, and are less doctrinaire and arrogant.
You say Joe Gauld's involvement is minimal. That's true if one counts the minutes he's around. But have you sat in those large group meetings where he pontificates and lectures in an incredibly doctrinaire way to parents about how they ought to run their lives? Do you really think he's not influencing parents, staff, and Hyde's entire ethos? His style seems to fly in the face of Hyde's claim about humility. The hypocrisy is very troubling.
I agree that the student tour guides can be impressive. They're also hand picked and, in my experience during the past couple of years, not at all representative of the broader student body. I'd encourage prospective parents to approach a random cross-section of kids to get a more realistic picture of Hyde. A major part of the problem, I think, is that Hyde's enthusiasts aren't willing to listen -- really listen -- to thoughtful critics. They tend to surround themselves with like-minded Hyde boosters. Criticism about Hyde tends to be viewed as sacrilege.
Did you read the Traub article about Hyde that someone posted on this site? In my opinion, that's a much more objective, candid, and honest description of this remarkably complex, controversial, and too often destructive school."
Honestly, I have read many of the posts on this site about Hyde and I find them more and more frustrating.
I think that the charter school in NYC is such an amazing idea because I've known people from the charter school in DC who have had wonderful experiences (check out the NPR story - Jesse Jean, a friend of mine, and a great kid)
I graduated last year and I am now at a very competitive liberal arts college, I did well at the school and although I disagreed with many things and it was not easy for me, I do accredit a lot of who I am today to the things I went through at that school.
As for the tour guides who are hand picked, you are wrong. Unless the person is completely off-track, they can give a tour, and in fact sometimes very off-track kids do give tours because it's a good experience.
It is not the place for everyone, but if anything it is a far more meaningful experience than the average public high school. Not everyone can handle it, but it depends on your maturity, it is nonsense to call the school a cult. And in terms of the teachers, some of the most amazing people work at that school. They are young, but consider the commitment that embody in spending 24 hours a day at a school like that. In fact, the thing that I was most grateful for at that school was the amazing faculty, who were willing to have conversations with me all the time, or invite me in to their home when I was having a bad day, or just let me do homework in their house.
Most of the kids who are saying these EXXAGERATIONS AND MISINTERPRETATIONS are probably bitter because people were honest with them, and they could not handle it.
I would not usually imagine myself sticking up for the school, because I had a very difficult time there, but most of what people are saying is simply not true."
I think you make some reasonable points. I agree that some students benefit from Hyde's approach and emphasis on accountability. And you may be right that the tour guides aren't exactly hand picked (although there are many students who are critical of Hyde that visitors aren't likely to encounter). Also, I agree that many of the faculty and staff are dedicated, sincere, and available to students.
That said, I think it's critically important to distinguish between -- and honestly acknowledge -- Hyde's positive features AND its well known shortcomings and destructive features. Now that I've been affiliated with Hyde for quite some time I've had the opportunity to observe, directly, remarkably abusive treatment (verbal, not physical) of students AND parents by a handful of staff, faculty and parent volunteers who help to facilitate seminars. I've been horrified by some of the destructive, confrontational, insulting, and unskilled comments directed toward some students and parents. This behavior flies in the face of the core values Hyde claims to embrace. You might say that this discomfort occurs only when families aren't willing to struggle with their own issues (that is, it's defensive). That may be true in some cases, but I think in many more cases people are responding to genuinely unprofessional and unskilled (though well meaning, perhaps) staff, faculty and volunteer parents.
My strong sense now is that Hyde has its toe on the line (and probably crosses the line) when it organizes seminars that are designed to uncover and reveal deeply personal information. I fully support schools' efforts to get families and students to examine their personal issues and struggles -- that's not the problem. However, Hyde's deliberate use of the seminar format to address these issues with relatively untrained staff and volunteers, while well meaning, has been harmful to many people I've spoken with and has led a number of people to leave the school (just last week I encountered yet another family that has had a painful experience there and now wants nothing to do with the school. There are lots of unhappy folks out there, despite what you might think based on the enthusiasm in the auditorium on family/parent weekends). It's fine for Hyde to promote self-examination and accountability among students and parents. I think Hyde needs to apply these same principles to itself and not be so defensive about all the criticism that surrounds it (I recognize that some of the criticism is shooting from the hip and not terribly thoughtful or constructive. However, a fair amount of what I'm hearing on the street, at Hyde during my visits there, and websites like this is thoughtful and well informed). I think Hyde needs to redesign its approach, fundamentally, so that it's not destructive and harmful. Again, some of the school's features are admirable and some are horribly destructive.
Post by: Anonymous on September 28, 2005, 12:40:00 PM
Faculty are participants in the group just as much as they are facilitators, and a lot of the harsh feedback comes from students, parents, AND faculty, so if someone is offended by something, it was not necessarily from a faculty.
The amount of seminars that i have sat through is indefinte, I spent 7 years sitting through seminars, since my brother attended the school before I did. People's boundaries are respected, if there something very personal about their past then they are encouraged to share it, but not required. I know this first-hand. The mandatory journaling questions and such are pretty vague: "what are your hopes and dreams?" "what resentments do you have towards your past?" people can answer however they want.
Again: I don't think that the school is perfect, I was often a student who stood up for things that i disagreed with, and I had many conversations with the headmaster, asst. headmasters, and all my teachers about the things that were not right about the school. But you don't really have the right to talk about that before you really give it a chance...and I don't mean just sitting in a seminar, but really really participating.
Post by: Anonymous on September 28, 2005, 03:55:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-09-28 09:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I understand what you're saying about the seminars, but from the sound of it, you have not actually sat through one of these seminars.
Faculty are participants in the group just as much as they are facilitators, and a lot of the harsh feedback comes from students, parents, AND faculty, so if someone is offended by something, it was not necessarily from a faculty.
The amount of seminars that i have sat through is indefinte, I spent 7 years sitting through seminars, since my brother attended the school before I did. People's boundaries are respected, if there something very personal about their past then they are encouraged to share it, but not required. I know this first-hand. The mandatory journaling questions and such are pretty vague: "what are your hopes and dreams?" "what resentments do you have towards your past?" people can answer however they want.
Again: I don't think that the school is perfect, I was often a student who stood up for things that i disagreed with, and I had many conversations with the headmaster, asst. headmasters, and all my teachers about the things that were not right about the school. But you don't really have the right to talk about that before you really give it a chance...and I don't mean just sitting in a seminar, but really really participating."
Thanks for your observations. I can assure you that my comments are based on extensive, direct participation in seminars (including several members of my family). It sounds as if we've had rather different experiences (perhaps a function of the group composition, the experience and expertise of the facilitators and parent volunteers, etc.). My observations are based directly on what I and other family members observed first-hand. I agree that seminars are not always, or even consistently, toxic and managed unskillfully. But, in my experience too many seminars include very destructive moments and events. Also, I have heard from quite a few parents who report very similar experiences. Not surprisingly, different people have different experiences and perceptions.
Post by: Anonymous on September 28, 2005, 05:03:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-09-28 09:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
People's boundaries are respected, if there something very personal about their past then they are encouraged to share it, but not required. I know this first-hand. The mandatory journaling questions and such are pretty vague: "what are your hopes and dreams?" "what resentments do you have towards your past?" people can answer however they want.
We all know there are positive's and negative's about Hyde, but the above is absolutely not true. I DID SIT THROUGH MANY SEMINARS and if you did not share something really horrible then you were called on it, and told you aren't digging deep enough. There was a tremendous amount of pressure put on you by ALL to come up with something deeper. It is ALWAYS assumed at Hyde that EVERYONE has something in their families that was distructive and that you must come clean with it. I know of one Mother who made something up simply to satisfy Hyde's sadistic thirst for dirt!!
Sorry, but you are entirely wrong that Hyde does not force you to talk about uncomfortable things in your life. No, they don't hold a gun to your head, but they put psychological pressure on you. Once I saw a woman who was pushed so hard that she finally came out with something that was obviously traumatic. She then couldn't handle it emotionally and practically had a breakdown. It was heartbreaking to see this grown woman having a breakdown yet no one with a professional degree there to help her. I am talking about someone who needed medication by the time "group" got done with her. If you want to say that this is acceptable standard of care, then you have a big problem.
Post by: HydeFan on October 05, 2005, 07:00:00 AM
Quote
I DID SIT THROUGH MANY SEMINARS and if you did not share something really horrible then you were called on it, and told you aren't digging deep enough. There was a tremendous amount of pressure put on you by ALL to come up with something deeper. It is ALWAYS assumed at Hyde that EVERYONE has something in their families that was distructive and that you must come clean with it.
Sorry, but you are entirely wrong that Hyde does not force you to talk about uncomfortable things in your life. No, they don't hold a gun to your head, but they put psychological pressure on you.
Here's the deal, for me.
We all have deeper truths. What is true today, may not be true tomorrow, simply because we took a deeper look. Jung, if I have it straight, was seminal in shining a light on the vast unconsciousness (I think something to the effect that consciousness was all we can see 10 feet deep from a rowboat when we are sitting in the middle of the ocean).
The point is, we all have deeper truths, and personal growth often comes from exploring these. If someone felt pressure to come up with something "horrible", that was about them. All that I saw that was asked of people was that they look inside, and speak the truth.
I concur, that can be very uncomfortable, but it was part of the package of going to Hyde, and to the extent a group will show its disapprovale to mutually agreed upon expectations, then that might also be considered "psychological pressure", but if that's as far as you got with the analysis, I would say you missed it, and I am sorry for that.
Post by: Troll Control on October 05, 2005, 09:25:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-10-05 04:00:00, HydeFan wrote:I've been reading this thread for a few days and I noticed that whenever someone disagrees with your baseline assessment of Hyde, you tell them that they "didn't get it" and you're "sorry" for them.
"Quote
I DID SIT THROUGH MANY SEMINARS and if you did not share something really horrible then you were called on it, and told you aren't digging deep enough. There was a tremendous amount of pressure put on you by ALL to come up with something deeper. It is ALWAYS assumed at Hyde that EVERYONE has something in their families that was distructive and that you must come clean with it.
Sorry, but you are entirely wrong that Hyde does not force you to talk about uncomfortable things in your life. No, they don't hold a gun to your head, but they put psychological pressure on you.
Here's the deal, for me.
We all have deeper truths. What is true today, may not be true tomorrow, simply because we took a deeper look. Jung, if I have it straight, was seminal in shining a light on the vast unconsciousness (I think something to the effect that consciousness was all we can see 10 feet deep from a rowboat when we are sitting in the middle of the ocean).
The point is, we all have deeper truths, and personal growth often comes from exploring these. If someone felt pressure to come up with something "horrible", that was about them. All that I saw that was asked of people was that they look inside, and speak the truth.
I concur, that can be very uncomfortable, but it was part of the package of going to Hyde, and to the extent a group will show its disapprovale to mutually agreed upon expectations, then that might also be considered "psychological pressure", but if that's as far as you got with the analysis, I would say you missed it, and I am sorry for that."
Why is it that so many others just "didn't get it"?
Your responses are rote and are very similar to the responses people get from almost every program that just doesn't work for them: "You didn't get it," or "You didn't work the program."
I wonder, did you ever think that a one-size-fits-all approach to "therapy" is simply a failed modality? Or do you think that if it worked for you the system must be set up properly and those for whom the program was an abject failure just "didn't get it"? Is it plausible to you that the system doesn't work in general and you are an exception?
I have in-depth experience with these cookie-cutter programs where evryone is treated the same, even though they present with vastly different issues. As a professional, I can assure you that this type of "treatment" results in many more failures than successes and that many of the "successes" are reducible to the natural maturation process (for which the program gladly takes credit). However, when there is a lack of success, the program, and its supporters, are quick to point the finger at the client saying "You didn't work it right."
Folks, these programs are scams, plain and simple. There is no research whatsoever to suggest these programs are effective (there is not one single objective scientific study that shows they work) and copiuous research to show they are detrimental. I would urge any prospective parents to look at unbiased research (the "programs" publish many advertisements disguised as "studies" or conlusions of studies). Don't be surprised when you find that authoritative sources, such as the NIH and many others, conclude that these programs are ineffective at best and outright harmful at worst. Studies in juvenile delinquency incontrovertably show that grouping together "problem kids" in residential settings increases the rate of delinquency, not reduces it.
Please, do some research and don't accept one person's account as fact. Verify and check for yourselves.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-10-05 07:54 ]
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2005, 11:52:00 AM
Yes, I was told like many other kids that "I didn't get it" and that my family "didn't look deep enough." Truth was, we didn't "buy into the program" because the program was insane!! Fine if other people want to believe their kids changed because of Hyde, but it just isn't so. The short term effects Hyde has on kids is nothing like the effects of growing up and having to stand on your own two feet.
I will admit sometimes parents are helped by learning to spend more quality time with their kids talking, but this is about the only benefit I saw at Hyde and as you pointed out, many exercises at the school have harmed more than have done good.
Again I thank you for contributing your expertise to this board.
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2005, 12:55:00 PM
I've been checking in every now and then to this thread and the last two posts are perfect examples of people who just don't get it. I'm surprised your bitterness hasn't caused physical damage!
PLEASE...and I repeat PLEASE...GET-A-LIFE!
Thanks
Post by: HydeFan on October 05, 2005, 01:23:00 PM
The issue was seminars. I responded about my experience of seminars that was different.
Yes, my end conclusion was the poster didn't get it.
Now you respond DF as a "professional" and go back to some larger attack on the school and how it doesn't work, and imply how NIH might even come out any minute now and tell the world how these are a scam.
Yah, I'm sure Time (or was it Newsweek), 60 Minutes, 20-20-, Oprah, Barbara Walters....no doubt they all missed it too.
Stay on point DF. If you had a different experience in seminars then let's hear about it, but your diversionary tactics aren't lost on anyone here....
Post by: Troll Control on October 05, 2005, 02:38:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-05 10:23:00, HydeFan wrote:I'm not employing any tactics, much less diverting from the subject.
"Amazing how ya'll have so much trouble staying on point.
The issue was seminars. I responded about my experience of seminars that was different.
Yes, my end conclusion was the poster didn't get it.
Now you respond DF as a "professional" and go back to some larger attack on the school and how it doesn't work, and imply how NIH might even come out any minute now and tell the world how these are a scam.
Yah, I'm sure Time (or was it Newsweek), 60 Minutes, 20-20-, Oprah, Barbara Walters....no doubt they all missed it too.
Stay on point DF. If you had a different experience in seminars then let's hear about it, but your diversionary tactics aren't lost on anyone here....
"
NIH is not going to "come out any minute" and declare anything a "scam," nor did I assert they would. What I said was that there has been definitive research done by NIH (and several other unbiased research agencies) that irrefutably proves that programs like Hyde ("Emotional Growth" or "Character Building" - call it what you like) don't work. The research has already been completed and is published for public consumption. Perhaps you should read some of the studies before you comment out of ignorance (no offense, but you clearly aren't an expert in this field).
I do indeed have a different opinion on "seminars" which are simply LGAT's called by a different name.
More on topic of what I was saying is that you seem to tell everyone that has a different opinion about the program from yours that they "don't get it." Well, I submit that many people "don't get it" because "it," on its face, doesn't make any sense and therefore wouldn't be "gotten" by most.
I also think it's a bit odd that you continually tell people that they are "off topic" when they ask questions about you. This is also a typical response from "program people." I believe I asked you some legitimate questions, but you declined to respond and shifted the focus to me and some "tactics" you imagined I am employing to divert discussion.
The topic of this thread is "Follow Up Questions on Hyde." Well, I asked you some follow up questions on Hyde and you declined to respond. Could you please go back to my last post and respond to the questions I posed?
Thank you.
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2005, 04:37:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-05 09:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I'd love to know your names so I can have a good laugh. You both are so pathetic...
I've been checking in every now and then to this thread and the last two posts are perfect examples of people who just don't get it. I'm surprised your bitterness hasn't caused physical damage!
PLEASE...and I repeat PLEASE...GET-A-LIFE!
Thanks"
Why do you want to know anyone's names? What is your name?
Why do you say it is pathetic to speak about your experience at Hyde?. Again you are showing the controlling and arrogant attitude of staff and owners of Hyde. If you don't think like Hyde then you "don't get it." I was always told this is a sign of a Cult, which is what other posters have been saying all along. You just helped with the conclusion.
You also ask for the last two posters to "get a life." Seems they have but experienced something painful at Hyde and feel an obligation to warn other parents so they don't have the same experiences. I don't see bitterness here, I see Concern and isn't this one of the 5 Words of Hyde, "Concern?"
If you are so fed up with the posters, why are you coming to this board. Either offer some other insight or MYOB!! This board is not set up for insults, but rather information.
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2005, 04:53:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-05 11:38:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
NIH is not going to "come out any minute" and declare anything a "scam," nor did I assert they would.
You are correct. I misread your post.
Quote
What I said was that there has been definitive research done by NIH (and several other unbiased research agencies) that irrefutably proves that programs like Hyde ("Emotional Growth" or "Character Building" - call it what you like) don't work. The research has already been completed and is published for public consumption. Perhaps you should read some of the studies before you comment out of ignorance (no offense, but you clearly aren't an expert in this field).
Gosh, would love to take your word on this, especially since you are the expert, but do you mind providing a site? I am certainly happy to read any irrefutable proof! Funny thing to me is, psychology is a soft science, and anyone who was really in the industry would pretty much never use a term like "irrefutable proof" on a topic like this.
Quote
I do indeed have a different opinion on "seminars" which are simply LGAT's called by a different name.
Sorry, I don't know what LGATs are or what them means to you. Please say more about this.
Quote
Well, I submit that many people "don't get it" because "it," on its face, doesn't make any sense and therefore wouldn't be "gotten" by most.
I'm sure I won't come close to capturing this, but "it" in this context somewhere along the lines of the notion that people with a common purpose of shedding light on their lives and making them better can accomplish this in a group context by disclosing personal/family "secrets", and getting help and support in healing whatever wounds or disfunction they now manifest.
Quote
I also think it's a bit odd that you continually tell people that they are "off topic" when they ask questions about you. This is also a typical response from "program people." I believe I asked you some legitimate questions, but you declined to respond and shifted the focus to me and some "tactics" you imagined I am employing to divert discussion.
Um, you responded to my post about the value of seminars by asking much broader questions that weren't about seminars. And yes, I consider that diversionary, and had no intention of responding to what seemed to be fairly rhetorical questions. My comment was in essence, we can't have a discussion here if the topic keeps changing.
Quote
The topic of this thread is "Follow Up Questions on Hyde." Well, I asked you some follow up questions on Hyde and you declined to respond. Could you please go back to my last post and respond to the questions I posed?
Ok, better for a separate stream, but here goes.
Quote
Why is it that so many others just "didn't get it"?
You question presumes information we don't really have which is the number of people who get it vs. the number of people who don't (as well as the more complicated agreement on which "it" it is that we are talking about. But assuming your question was focused and true, I can think of a lot of reasons this might be, including lack of emotional intelligence, defense of the perceived threat to existing family systems, more profound psychological issues that initially believed in the interview.
Quote
I wonder, did you ever think that a one-size-fits-all approach to "therapy" is simply a failed modality?
Actually, I doubt anyone ever thought a character eduction program would be universally applicable--that is why many families aren't accepted into Hyde (and why many leave). My experience is that Hyde was very hands on, intensive and creative in handling many situations differently. I watched Hyde leadership....students and faculty....search their souls for the most appropriate response to whatever circumstances arose, and follow through on that. For sure, there were many standard responses to various situations, but without more detail of which aspects of what you term one-size-fits-all you are talking about, the level of abstraction is too broad to give a more detailed response.
Quote
Or do you think that if it worked for you the system must be set up properly and those for whom the program was an abject failure just "didn't get it"? Is it plausible to you that the system doesn't work in general and you are an exception?
I don't claim to have numbers. I do have a long term level of interaction with the school and have seen innumerable success stories so I know for a fact it worked for more than a few. But I don't think we can really have this discussion without first agreeing on what it was that was supposed to work. If a family felt too threatened by changes it needed to make and closed ranks by leaving, is that not working? I don't think so. From my perspective, the system worked.
Indeed, the parallels to your claimed field of expertise should be obvious. Why does psychotherapy not work for so many people? At least a partial answer is that fundamentally, change threatens many people on such a core level that their limbic system goes into fight or flight. And then they either work through that or stay stuck. That's why I am suspect of people who say they are angry 30 years later because Hyde screwed up their lives. Its possible their were grievously wronged, but no one, parents included, should accept such a statment without more information on that persons facts, because if they didn't "get it" then, there is a good chance they still don't "get it" now, and that their failure to "get it" has resulted in limiting their potential, and so they just want someone to blame.
You can call this a rote answer or anything you want, but it comes from my personal experience both at Hyde and working intimately with the psychotheraputic field.
I also have to say, if you really are a professional, I am surprised this isn't more obvious to you.
Anyway, DF, can we start with you presenting your irrefutably proof that the NIH has stated that the Hydes of the world don't work. If so, I think that should be fairly compelling for everyone, including me.
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2005, 05:05:00 PM
Quote
Why do you want to know anyone's names? What is your name?
Again you are showing the controlling and arrogant attitude of staff and owners of Hyde. If you don't think like Hyde then you "don't get it." I was always told this is a sign of a Cult......
Well, to state the obvious, knowing someone's name would probably lead to "oh, I remember this person, and here is what really happened". How can you think its not relevant in ascertaining whether their claims have any validity?
Oh, just one other no doubt remotely possibly interpretation of "you don't get it". I am thinking, and stop me if this is too much of stretch here, but maybe those people actually just never got it.
Sure, it could be evidence of a cult. But there are equally viable alternative interpretations....
Post by: Troll Control on October 05, 2005, 06:00:00 PM
Here's a good link to start with. I can certainly quote many studies and you to them for your perusal, but this is a good, basic document that has annotations for all of its sources that you may also browse.
I don't have time right now to write a lengthy post, but since you show some interest in learning a bit more about the underlying psychological components of "programs," I thought I would give you a couple of jumping off points to do your own research.
You can look up LGAT -Large Group Awareness Training - and see what it's all about. It's principles are the underpinnings of nearly all "seminars" ("propheets," "workshops," "ecounter groups," "NLP" or "neurolinguistic programming," etc.).
Have a read and we'll discuss it tomorrow (or when you have time).
Post by: Antigen on October 05, 2005, 10:43:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-05 14:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
Oh, just one other no doubt remotely possibly interpretation of "you don't get it". I am thinking, and stop me if this is too much of stretch here, but maybe those people actually just never got it.
Ok, stop. That is too much of a stretch.
Quote
Sure, it could be evidence of a cult. But there are equally viable alternative interpretations
No, not equally viable. Not even close. Read up on LGAT and and cults. It fits absolutely perfectly.
BTW, there are other, far more likely reason why someone w/ extreme fidelity to the program might want to know the identities of critics. What do you suppose these people disclosed in those seminars, hm? Bet some of it was some good dirt, huh!
You are so transparent :roll:
God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Perl Services
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2005, 11:46:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-05 19:43:00, Antigen wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-10-05 14:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
Oh, just one other no doubt remotely possibly interpretation of "you don't get it". I am thinking, and stop me if this is too much of stretch here, but maybe those people actually just never got it.
Ok, stop. That is too much of a stretch.Quote
Sure, it could be evidence of a cult. But there are equally viable alternative interpretations
No, not equally viable. Not even close. Read up on LGAT and and cults. It fits absolutely perfectly.
BTW, there are other, far more likely reason why someone w/ extreme fidelity to the program might want to know the identities of critics. What do you suppose these people disclosed in those seminars, hm? Bet some of it was some good dirt, huh!
You are so transparent :roll:God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
Thank you Ginger! This "Hydette" is so programmed!! This person continues to try and control minds rather than admitting there are terrible flaws in this program! Why did one headmaster or asst headmaster resign because of plagerism? Why did another headmaster get transfered after being involved in a scandal involving a lawsuit where a good friend/staff member of his was accused of fondling a student? Why did another top administrator recently think about leaving? Why do at least 50% of Teachers leave each year? Why would a teacher be required to put their own kids at the school or be told, "you aren't committed to the program?" Cult, Cult, Cult!!
I could go on and on with the questions, but Hyde's fans will continue to defend. The point is, Hyde has A LOT wrong with it, but they continue to say, "we always raise the bar and continue to make good changes." This is fine for a new school, but after all these years you would think Hyde "got it!"
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2005, 01:56:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-10-05 15:00:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"http://www.bazelon.org/issues/children/factsheets/rtcs.htm#_ftnref23
Here's a good link to start with.
Um, McFly. Hello. McFly. Anyone home. This is link to a legal website on residential treatment centers. Reading the first paragraph and its pretty clear its not even close to being about Hyde.
How is it that you think a legal website on residential treatment centers are relevant to my request to prove up your statement:
Quote
What I said was that there has been definitive research done by NIH (and several other unbiased research agencies) that irrefutably proves that programs like Hyde ("Emotional Growth" or "Character Building" - call it what you like) don't work.
Bring it. After all, you are the psychological professional here, right? Absent IRREFUTABLE PROOF, it seems to me a fair conclusion that people may assume everything you say is a lie, and also have a good idea why you and/or your family didn't make it at Hyde.
Post by: HydeFan on October 06, 2005, 02:27:00 AM
Quote
QuoteSure, it could be evidence of a cult. But there are equally viable alternative interpretations
No, not equally viable. Not even close. Read up on LGAT and and cults. It fits absolutely perfectly.
I conceded that this language could be used by a cult. I also proposed that the same language might also be used by someone that was actually right, hence, an equally viable interpretation. Why is that so hard to grok?
Quote
BTW, there are other, far more likely reason why someone w/ extreme fidelity to the program might want to know the identities of critics. What do you suppose these people disclosed in those seminars, hm? Bet some of it was some good dirt, huh!
This is a fair point. I actually don't expect anyone to reveal their true identities here. But why is it hard to understand that if someone makes accusations about Hyde and doesn't reveal their identity, that their true bias is indeterminate and all their comments suspect (the same way mine presumably are)?
Quote
Thank you Ginger! This "Hydette" is so programmed!! This person continues to try and control minds rather than admitting there are terrible flaws in this program!
On some level, I can agree I seek a control of sorts, but only through the marketplace of ideas, where the best reasoning and logic (or best marketer) prevails.
But yes, thank you Ginger. Am I correct in that you didn't go to Hyde and have no contact with Hyde other than posting on this website? And posting a lot more on schools you have decided were abusive? If so, do you see yourself as some freedom fighter? The brainwashing was so strong at this school (that was on 60 Minutes twice, Baraba Walters, Newsweek etc.) that you need to jump in an help save these poor souls who can't speak up for themselves? Sounds like you may have less of a life than I do!
Quote
Why did one headmaster or asst headmaster resign because of plagerism?
Um, well, I got the same letter you probably did. The school handled this openly and courageously. Most institutions would probably have hidden this the best they could. Instead, Hyde hung its dirty laundry out for all to see, and took decisive action. That looks to me like a principled system that walks the walk.
Quote
Why did another headmaster get transfered after being involved in a scandal involving a lawsuit where a good friend/staff member of his was accused of fondling a student?
I have no clue about this, but if the transfer related to their handling of something that happens sooner or later in every high school in America, it sounds again like they took appropriate corrective action, not just against the teacher, but his/her supervisor as well. What did you want, have them to commit hari kari? Self-immolate?
Quote
Why did another top administrator recently think about leaving?
I don't really know. Why does anyone ever think about leaving a job?
Quote
Why do at least 50% of Teachers leave each year?
Please site your source? And every year since when? Anyway, personally, I am concerned with teacher turnover, but I don't have numbers. If true, it could be for a lot of reasons though. Underpaid, overworked, and they too don't get it. There are other possibilities as well. Maybe they agree with you and want to post about it here. I did see an invitation to that effect in another stream but no responsive posts last I saw. My question to you though is, do you know for a fact the reasons teachers leave?
Quote
Why would a teacher be required to put their own kids at the school or be told, "you aren't committed to the program?" Cult, Cult, Cult!!
If they are told this, they shouldn't be. Not sure that makes them a cult.
Quote
I could go on and on with the questions, but Hyde's fans will continue to defend.
Your questions are short on facts, and are far from compelling. I will certainly go after the low hanging fruit to make place accusations in context or add additional facts or information I am aware of.
I am a proud Hydette. Hyde saved my life and many years after I went there is still have profoundly positive repurcussions in my family.
Post by: Troll Control on October 06, 2005, 09:24:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-10-05 22:56:00, Anonymous wrote:Oy vey. I guess some people really "just don't get it" and you're one of them.
"Quote
On 2005-10-05 15:00:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"http://www.bazelon.org/issues/children/factsheets/rtcs.htm#_ftnref23
Here's a good link to start with.
Um, McFly. Hello. McFly. Anyone home. This is link to a legal website on residential treatment centers. Reading the first paragraph and its pretty clear its not even close to being about Hyde.
How is it that you think a legal website on residential treatment centers are relevant to my request to prove up your statement:QuoteWhat I said was that there has been definitive research done by NIH (and several other unbiased research agencies) that irrefutably proves that programs like Hyde ("Emotional Growth" or "Character Building" - call it what you like) don't work.
Bring it. After all, you are the psychological professional here, right? Absent IRREFUTABLE PROOF, it seems to me a fair conclusion that people may assume everything you say is a lie, and also have a good idea why you and/or your family didn't make it at Hyde."
I posted this link simply because it links to many other sources of information, not because it is a definitive document. I didn't have time to post all the links you should read and I'm glad I didn't take the time to do so, as you clearly are not interested in any facts or scientific research regarding LGAT based "treatment centers."
You try to present yourself as an educated, critical thinker, but your reasoning skills are deficient. You seem not to be able to look at an issue academically, but rather view others' opinions as an attack on your way of life rather than your line of reasoning.
What ever gave you the idea that I or my family was ever involved with Hyde? You hurl that as if it were an insult. It is, in fact, the opposite: a testament to healthy coping skills and the lack of a "need" for a place like Hyde.
And, yes, I am an expert in the field of psychology and sociology. Try as you may to represent that you have understanding of human behavior and thought, you clearly have no education or experience in that arena (how can you possibly be involved in the "psychotherapeutic community" as you statedwhen you've never even heard of LGAT, one of the most widely discussed topics in that community?). It seems to me that you simply regurgitate the same bile to every person who questions your value system. Do you understand that this is normal behavior and reaction for people who have been indoctrinated into cults or cult-like organizations?
Your complete and utter lack of ability to reflect upon yourself proves to me that whatever "emotional growth program" you "worked" didn't work for you. You are singularly unable to answer simple questions about philosophy, unwilling to even educate yourself to these subjects and respond in an utterly dogmatic fashion in your attempt to deflect criticism of your beloved program. Your behavior alone on this board is more than enough to steer parents away from Hyde and its warped philosophy and proponents. For that, I thank you for doing me a favor, as I can use your so-called "argument" as evidence why nobody should ever consider Hyde as an option for their child. Just look at the damaged product it creates.
Post by: HydeFan on October 06, 2005, 11:33:00 AM
Quote
What ever gave you the idea that I or my family was ever involved with Hyde?
If you weren't then you seem to have no first hand basis for what you say.
Quote
And, yes, I am an expert in the field of psychology and sociology. Try as you may to represent that you have understanding of human behavior and thought, you clearly have no education or experience in that arena (how can you possibly be involved in the "psychotherapeutic community" as you statedwhen you've never even heard of LGAT, one of the most widely discussed topics in that community?).
My comments stand for themselves.
Quote
It seems to me that you simply regurgitate the same bile to every person who questions your value system. Do you understand that this is normal behavior and reaction for people who have been indoctrinated into cults or cult-like organizations?
Your inability to manage your hostility and your failure to recognize that if someone did have a good experience at Hyde their reflections on the subject would be similar is more evidence you are not a psychology professional.
Quote
Your complete and utter lack of ability to reflect upon yourself proves to me that whatever "emotional growth program" you "worked" didn't work for you.
Paragraph 3 of personal attacks about yet something else outside of the authors ability to have all but the most scant insight.
Quote
You are singularly unable to answer simple questions about philosophy,
Even when off topic, I have done my best to answer every question you asked that I had any potential insight into.
Quote
unwilling to even educate yourself to these subjects and respond in an utterly dogmatic fashion in your attempt to deflect criticism of your beloved program.
Um, I asked you for a site on your most damning comments, that NIH had publish irrefutable proof Hyde didn't work. You didn't provide that site, and the one you did provide was completely irrelevant. You also provided no sites for LGATs. I have already done a fair amount of research for those of you making false allegations about Hyde and proved there appears to be a certain willingness to lie in order to manipulate public opinion. Until you come up with your NIH study, you will fall into the same group.
Quote
Your behavior alone on this board is more than enough to steer parents away from Hyde and its warped philosophy and proponents. For that, I thank you for doing me a favor, as I can use your so-called "argument" as evidence why nobody should ever consider Hyde as an option for their child. Just look at the damaged product it creates."
I trust the parents can think for themselves.
Post by: Troll Control on October 06, 2005, 12:02:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-06 08:33:00, HydeFan wrote:Wow. Cultism at it's finest, ladies and gentlemen. This person is a complete weirdo and does nothing but attack others and fail to answer questions asked.
"QuoteWhat ever gave you the idea that I or my family was ever involved with Hyde?
If you weren't then you seem to have no first hand basis for what you say.QuoteAnd, yes, I am an expert in the field of psychology and sociology. Try as you may to represent that you have understanding of human behavior and thought, you clearly have no education or experience in that arena (how can you possibly be involved in the "psychotherapeutic community" as you statedwhen you've never even heard of LGAT, one of the most widely discussed topics in that community?).
My comments stand for themselves.QuoteIt seems to me that you simply regurgitate the same bile to every person who questions your value system. Do you understand that this is normal behavior and reaction for people who have been indoctrinated into cults or cult-like organizations?
Your inability to manage your hostility and your failure to recognize that if someone did have a good experience at Hyde their reflections on the subject would be similar is more evidence you are not a psychology professional.QuoteYour complete and utter lack of ability to reflect upon yourself proves to me that whatever "emotional growth program" you "worked" didn't work for you.
Paragraph 3 of personal attacks about yet something else outside of the authors ability to have all but the most scant insight.QuoteYou are singularly unable to answer simple questions about philosophy,
Even when off topic, I have done my best to answer every question you asked that I had any potential insight into.Quoteunwilling to even educate yourself to these subjects and respond in an utterly dogmatic fashion in your attempt to deflect criticism of your beloved program.
Um, I asked you for a site on your most damning comments, that NIH had publish irrefutable proof Hyde didn't work. You didn't provide that site, and the one you did provide was completely irrelevant. You also provided no sites for LGATs. I have already done a fair amount of research for those of you making false allegations about Hyde and proved there appears to be a certain willingness to lie in order to manipulate public opinion. Until you come up with your NIH study, you will fall into the same group.QuoteYour behavior alone on this board is more than enough to steer parents away from Hyde and its warped philosophy and proponents. For that, I thank you for doing me a favor, as I can use your so-called "argument" as evidence why nobody should ever consider Hyde as an option for their child. Just look at the damaged product it creates."
I trust the parents can think for themselves."
Post by: Troll Control on October 06, 2005, 12:19:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-06 08:33:00, HydeFan wrote:
"QuoteWhat ever gave you the idea that I or my family was ever involved with Hyde?
If you weren't then you seem to have no first hand basis for what you say.QuoteAnd, yes, I am an expert in the field of psychology and sociology. Try as you may to represent that you have understanding of human behavior and thought, you clearly have no education or experience in that arena (how can you possibly be involved in the "psychotherapeutic community" as you statedwhen you've never even heard of LGAT, one of the most widely discussed topics in that community?).
My comments stand for themselves.QuoteIt seems to me that you simply regurgitate the same bile to every person who questions your value system. Do you understand that this is normal behavior and reaction for people who have been indoctrinated into cults or cult-like organizations?
Your inability to manage your hostility and your failure to recognize that if someone did have a good experience at Hyde their reflections on the subject would be similar is more evidence you are not a psychology professional.QuoteYour complete and utter lack of ability to reflect upon yourself proves to me that whatever "emotional growth program" you "worked" didn't work for you.
Paragraph 3 of personal attacks about yet something else outside of the authors ability to have all but the most scant insight.QuoteYou are singularly unable to answer simple questions about philosophy,
Even when off topic, I have done my best to answer every question you asked that I had any potential insight into.Quoteunwilling to even educate yourself to these subjects and respond in an utterly dogmatic fashion in your attempt to deflect criticism of your beloved program.
Um, I asked you for a site on your most damning comments, that NIH had publish irrefutable proof Hyde didn't work. You didn't provide that site, and the one you did provide was completely irrelevant. You also provided no sites for LGATs. I have already done a fair amount of research for those of you making false allegations about Hyde and proved there appears to be a certain willingness to lie in order to manipulate public opinion. Until you come up with your NIH study, you will fall into the same group.QuoteYour behavior alone on this board is more than enough to steer parents away from Hyde and its warped philosophy and proponents. For that, I thank you for doing me a favor, as I can use your so-called "argument" as evidence why nobody should ever consider Hyde as an option for their child. Just look at the damaged product it creates."
I trust the parents can think for themselves."
I can see why you won't educate yourself about thought reform programs. The cognitive dissonance would cause you distress.
Whether or not you can recognize it, you are exhibiting the signs and symptoms of cult indoctrination. Further dialogue with a dogmatic automaton is not productive use of my time.
"Coercive thought reform programs also, among other things, create the potential forces necessary for exercising undue influence over a person's independent decision-making ability, and even for turning the individual into a deployable agent for the organization's benefit without the individual's meaningful knowledge or consent."
Post by: Antigen on October 06, 2005, 12:33:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-05 22:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
Um, McFly. Hello. McFly. Anyone home.
If you ever decide to pick an alias, I've added an avatar just for you.
Neither in my private life nor in my writings, have I ever made a secret of being an out-and-out unbeliever.
--Sigmund Freud, Austrian-born psychologist
Post by: Antigen on October 06, 2005, 12:55:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-05 23:27:00, HydeFan wrote:
But yes, thank you Ginger. Am I correct in that you didn't go to Hyde and have no contact with Hyde other than posting on this website? And posting a lot more on schools you have decided were abusive? If so, do you see yourself as some freedom fighter? The brainwashing was so strong at this school (that was on 60 Minutes twice, Baraba Walters, Newsweek etc.) that you need to jump in an help save these poor souls who can't speak up for themselves? Sounds like you may have less of a life than I do!
No, you misunderstand. These "poor souls" seem to be doing a find job of speaking for themselves. My interest in the topic derives from two basic sources.
First, way back in around `70 or `71, my family became involved in a very similar cult called The Seed. It's leader, Art Barker, was very like the way some of these people describe the Gaulds. You can read all about that in the Seed Discussion forum right here on this site. Hell, you can even find avid lifelong supporters of Art and the Seed who sound remarkably like you.
I think Art may have been even a little bit more off kilter than Joe Gauld, as the big government money and successful business people who initially collaborated w/ him gave him the bum's rush after about 4 years and set up shop under a new banner; Straight, Inc.
And this is the other prong of my continued interest in the issue. I don't care so much about what happened to my family 30 odd years ago. I care that you well intended but severely misguided people are inflicting the same destructive "treatment" on a new generation and doing it on my dime. That's just wrong. And I intend to get the word out, to foster meaningful, productive dialog on the topic and, ultimately, to do my small part in putting an end to public support and protection for these harmful practices.
Until you've lost your reputation,you never realize what a burden it was or what freedom really is.
MARGARET MITCHELL
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2005, 03:18:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-06 09:55:00, Antigen wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-10-05 23:27:00, HydeFan wrote:
But yes, thank you Ginger. Am I correct in that you didn't go to Hyde and have no contact with Hyde other than posting on this website? And posting a lot more on schools you have decided were abusive? If so, do you see yourself as some freedom fighter? The brainwashing was so strong at this school (that was on 60 Minutes twice, Baraba Walters, Newsweek etc.) that you need to jump in an help save these poor souls who can't speak up for themselves? Sounds like you may have less of a life than I do!
No, you misunderstand. These "poor souls" seem to be doing a find job of speaking for themselves. My interest in the topic derives from two basic sources.
First, way back in around `70 or `71, my family became involved in a very similar cult called The Seed. It's leader, Art Barker, was very like the way some of these people describe the Gaulds. You can read all about that in the Seed Discussion forum right here on this site. Hell, you can even find avid lifelong supporters of Art and the Seed who sound remarkably like you.
I think Art may have been even a little bit more off kilter than Joe Gauld, as the big government money and successful business people who initially collaborated w/ him gave him the bum's rush after about 4 years and set up shop under a new banner; Straight, Inc.
And this is the other prong of my continued interest in the issue. I don't care so much about what happened to my family 30 odd years ago. I care that you well intended but severely misguided people are inflicting the same destructive "treatment" on a new generation and doing it on my dime. That's just wrong. And I intend to get the word out, to foster meaningful, productive dialog on the topic and, ultimately, to do my small part in putting an end to public support and protection for these harmful practices.
Ginger, I respect and admire you for trying to make this a better world for the next generation. It is quite humorous that HydeFan keeps admonishing people for speaking the truth because one of the sayings at Hyde is, "Truth Over Harmony" in other words don't worry about keeping harmony, rather it is important to speak the truth and put yourself out there.
I agree there are legitimate concerns for the teachings and indoctornation of Joe Gauld. As he gets older he seems to be more out of control if he CANNOT CONTROL.
Let us not forget Hyde is now in the public sector ie DC, New Haven. Hyde recently opened up another "Charter School" in Oakland California and is also in the process of opening up one in NYC. I think it is of the utmost importance to inform the school system of NYC about Hyde's practices and destructive patterns. If you have any ideas, let the rest of us know.
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2005, 03:28:00 PM
Post by: Antigen on October 06, 2005, 04:09:00 PM
In any event, as the discussion gets more substantial and interesting and people around the net link to it and search on the term more often, it'll rise in the rankings.
That's another of those little vindications of mine. I believe in a laissez faire approach to almost everything (consistent w/ the old axiom that it is wise to choose one's battles carefully!) And, so far, my doing absolutely nothing wrt marketing has consistently outperformed the industrie's million dollar marketing budgets. :rofl:
Save our planet; it's the only one with chocolate!
--Andi, domestic goddess
Post by: tommyfromhyde1 on October 06, 2005, 04:20:00 PM
come up on page one of a Google search if you
put "hyde school" inside quotes earlier last
summer. And the board was nowhere near as active
as it has been in the last couple of weeks. Go
figure.
...it is in fact nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction have not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry; for this delicate little plant, aside from stimulation, stands mainly in need of freedom; without this it goes to wrack and ruin without fail.
--Albert Einstein
Post by: Anonymous on October 07, 2005, 10:31:00 AM
I have a life and a career no thanks to Hyde and find it impressive that HydeFan spends so much time trying to defend an institution that clearly has always had many flaws. As far as the school being open for anyone to see, HydeFan knows this is not true and that no potential student or parent will ever be allowed in a seminar. HydeFan will say this is because of privacy, but the fact remains that many times what is done in these seminars is destructive and harmful! These "group leaders" allow the level of these seminars to get to a very dangerous point and I do not believe the outside world will ever be privleged to see one unless Hyde sets a controlled one up with selecting the participants, the same way they set up the tours with their star students.
My question to HydeFan is, why are you going to such great lengths to try to prove all the other posters wrong? Doesn't seem that you have let go of your control and dominance! At least the other posters point out the negatives and positives of Hyde. You simply dispute any negatives and want the public to believe that Hyde is an Oasis if you do the work that Hyde expects. This is not so and you know it!!
HydeFan, you give the perfect impression of Hyde. A CULT
Post by: Antigen on October 07, 2005, 12:50:00 PM
I give money for church organs in the hope the organ music will distract the congregation's attention from the rest of the service.
--Andrew Carnegie, Scottish-born American industrialist and philanthropist
Post by: Anonymous on October 07, 2005, 01:18:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-07 07:31:00, Anonymous wrote:
These "group leaders" allow the level of these seminars to get to a very dangerous point and I do not believe the outside world will ever be privleged to see one unless Hyde sets a controlled one up with selecting the participants, the same way they set up the tours with their star students.
Anon, you just jogged a memory! In '76 Hyde did
just that! They did it on the Phil Donahue show
I belive. And yes it was all Seniors and a few
Senior Preps as targets.
Post by: tommyfromhyde1 on October 07, 2005, 01:19:00 PM
To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them...
-- Richard Henry Lee, 1787
Post by: Antigen on October 07, 2005, 03:24:00 PM
What's Hyde got to hide, anyway? God, even the name is ironic as hell! Wouldn't Hyde benefit from full public disclosure?
How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate, they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to.
George Orwell, 1984
Post by: tommyfromhyde1 on October 07, 2005, 03:54:00 PM
the original Bath, ME campus was built around
the mansion and estate of John S. Hyde, who
founded and built the Bath Iron Works. BIW is
a shipyard that mostly builds small ships such as
frigates and destroyers for the U.S. Navy. It's
by far the biggest employer in town (or was in
the '70s).
The spirit of this country is totally adverse to a large military force.
--Thomas Jefferson
Post by: Anonymous on October 07, 2005, 11:46:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 08, 2005, 12:42:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on October 08, 2005, 01:36:00 AM
MORE HYDE LEADERSHIP SCHOOLS
(May 10, 2004) Joe Gauld, Founder of Hyde School, http://www.hyde.edu (http://www.hyde.edu), a leader in family-based character education, announced plans to establish five more Hyde Leadership Schools, which includes two charter school applications in New York City and Oakland, CA. They hope to open these two schools in September, 2005. Hyde is working with both the Walton and Gates Foundations. These foundations are committed ?to transform American education through the charter school movement.? They are working on developing Hyde charter schools in other regions, hoping to open in 2006 and beyond. The coordinator of this effort is Julie Greenlaw at [email protected], 207-443-7386. The two schools they hope to open in 2005 are modeled after the Hyde charter school in Washington D.C.
Post by: tommyfromhyde1 on October 08, 2005, 02:00:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-07 20:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I bet even Jim Jones could have proved to the world his followers were benefiting from his teachings!! This would be right before he talked them into drinking the kool aid!!"
He had the whole San Francisco city gov't (Moscone
Administration) convinced that he was "getting
people off drugs".
Jones also had his people working as campaign workers for Moscone favored candidates for free.
Gauld did the same thing in Maine in the '70s
Sacred cows make the best hamburger.
Mark Twain
Post by: Anonymous on October 08, 2005, 02:57:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-08 11:00:00, tommyfromhyde1 wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-10-07 20:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I bet even Jim Jones could have proved to the world his followers were benefiting from his teachings!! This would be right before he talked them into drinking the kool aid!!"
He had the whole San Francisco city gov't (Moscone
Administration) convinced that he was "getting
people off drugs".
Jones also had his people working as campaign workers for Moscone favored candidates for free.
Gauld did the same thing in Maine in the '70sSacred cows make the best hamburger."
Mark Twain
This is my exact point! Hyde or any program will have it's followers and people who swear by their techniques! As many people have pointed out, the techniques are all the same, just different versions.
Post by: Anonymous on October 10, 2005, 09:14:00 AM
When will the govt catch onto what is happening in these, "troubled teen" programs?
Post by: Antigen on October 10, 2005, 11:51:00 AM
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=8#139379 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12191&forum=8#139379)
That's all marijuana is, after all. It's just a plant, a common and easily grown one at that. In many cultures, its consumption was lawful for millennia. And in all that time, the bond between thugs, mayhem, murder and marijuana that we see today did not exist.
Dan Gardner, CanWest News Service
Post by: Anonymous on October 10, 2005, 06:11:00 PM
Do what you do best HydeFan but I surely wouldn't want to go to a school that you run or have anything to do with. Furthermore you SCARE ME!!
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2005, 10:51:00 PM
Thankfully I did not bring my other children, as we were often told to.
I do not know how to deal with the memories of what I've heard in the seminars, or my own unresolved participation. So many times people would be crying - it was horrific what was unleashed. We all have issues in our lives, some alot more serious than others. I am forever dismayed that my child witnessed and heard what he did without the benefit of having the painful memories dredged up by people treated in the right way. Reading other parents' posts makes me realize how angry I am, and how much more I need to understand how to heal myself from those times. How can the school stay accredited?
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2005, 12:35:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-11-09 19:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yes - the seminars--- where is the accrediting board? Reading other parents' experiences of the FLC's, wilderness retreats and seminars brings it all back to me. These were awful times and they were awful not because I did not want to 'face my family issues'. They were awful because they were wrong.
Thankfully I did not bring my other children, as we were often told to.
I do not know how to deal with the memories of what I've heard in the seminars, or my own unresolved participation. So many times people would be crying - it was horrific what was unleashed. We all have issues in our lives, some alot more serious than others. I am forever dismayed that my child witnessed and heard what he did without the benefit of having the painful memories dredged up by people treated in the right way. Reading other parents' posts makes me realize how angry I am, and how much more I need to understand how to heal myself from those times. How can the school stay accredited?"
There was a parent in our "region" who went to an FLC and came back needing to go to the doctor who then put him on strong meds! The doctor told him that because of the trauma he was forced to dig up at the school, he was in dire need of a psychologist at once! I am not exaggerating about this one bit! I was told first hand.
This father ended up having to go on anti-anxiety drugs. It was clear that Hyde had pushed him too far to an area of his life that Hyde was not prepared or capable of dealing with and neither was the husband.
I was not in the seminar where this happened, but the wife brought it up to me upon the husbands return. Shortly after, this family dropped out.
In my own seminars I watched adults and kids being pushed over the edge. Hyde considers this a break through! I don't consider this a breakthrough, I consider it a form of abuse and Cult like activities that need to stop! The frightening thing is that Hyde is convincing local school systems to allow them to run a Charter School in their districts!
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2005, 02:25:00 AM
Quote
There was a parent in our "region" who went to an FLC and came back needing to go to the doctor who then put him on strong meds! The doctor told him that because of the trauma he was forced to dig up at the school, he was in dire need of a psychologist at once! I am not exaggerating about this one bit! I was told first hand.
This father ended up having to go on anti-anxiety drugs. It was clear that Hyde had pushed him too far to an area of his life that Hyde was not prepared or capable of dealing with and neither was the husband.
Funny thing, perspective. I actually have no problem with this. People only dig up what they want to dig up, and if it was that traumatic (what he dug up) that he had to go on meds, the real question is, where is he today? That someone has to go on meds as a result of a realization about their past is fairly routine stuff and not in and of itself, evidence of abuse. And when that level of stuff comes up, it doesn't get resolved over night. Sounds like it was profoundly deep, he sought professional help, and I would hope for him that his life took a dramatic turn at that point which he doesn't regret.
Point being, we don't know what happened and the conclusion that Hyde "pushed him too far" is fairly self-serving. You might also say, Hyde opened a door and he stepped through it....but in my experience, no one goes anywhere that deep until they are ready.
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2005, 06:19:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-11-10 23:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"QuoteThere was a parent in our "region" who went to an FLC and came back needing to go to the doctor who then put him on strong meds! The doctor told him that because of the trauma he was forced to dig up at the school, he was in dire need of a psychologist at once! I am not exaggerating about this one bit! I was told first hand.
This father ended up having to go on anti-anxiety drugs. It was clear that Hyde had pushed him too far to an area of his life that Hyde was not prepared or capable of dealing with and neither was the husband.
Funny thing, perspective. I actually have no problem with this. People only dig up what they want to dig up, and if it was that traumatic (what he dug up) that he had to go on meds, the real question is, where is he today? That someone has to go on meds as a result of a realization about their past is fairly routine stuff and not in and of itself, evidence of abuse. And when that level of stuff comes up, it doesn't get resolved over night. Sounds like it was profoundly deep, he sought professional help, and I would hope for him that his life took a dramatic turn at that point which he doesn't regret.
Point being, we don't know what happened and the conclusion that Hyde "pushed him too far" is fairly self-serving. You might also say, Hyde opened a door and he stepped through it....but in my experience, no one goes anywhere that deep until they are ready."
Your comment is the prototypical "What Hyde made you do was good for you, so don't complain" response. This is what is driving so many people from Hyde, and for good reason.
The fact -- and I assure you it's a fact -- is that many people have been deeply traumatized by Hyde staff's incredibly unskilled handling of complex emotional and intimate disclosures during FLCs. Hyde's model is so out of step with the rest of the world. Picture this composite scenario: an FLC in Bath where a child is exposed to discussion about how his father was once his mother and underwent a sex change operation. This discussion occurs in front of 15 or so other people. The kid freaks out, feels over-exposed, and deeply embarrassed; by the way, this is a student who got kicked out of his local school because of severe behavioral and mental health issues. Other parents and students squirm in their seats wondering whether they should be privy to this sort of detail. The kid's two parents are screaming hateful comments at each other. All this is being handled by a 23 year-old Hyde teacher who admits she barely made it through college but has done lots of hard work on herself. She has absolutely no training in mental health or group therapy. Some people walk out of that seminar shaking and crying.
No one in his or her right mind should find that scenario acceptable. It's called abusive and negligent. Period. Hyde should be put out of business. No parent should subject his or her child, or him or herself, to that craziness. If Joe Gauld, et al. find this defensible, they're living in a dream world.
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2005, 03:39:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-11 03:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-11-10 23:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"QuoteThere was a parent in our "region" who went to an FLC and came back needing to go to the doctor who then put him on strong meds! The doctor told him that because of the trauma he was forced to dig up at the school, he was in dire need of a psychologist at once! I am not exaggerating about this one bit! I was told first hand.
This father ended up having to go on anti-anxiety drugs. It was clear that Hyde had pushed him too far to an area of his life that Hyde was not prepared or capable of dealing with and neither was the husband.
Funny thing, perspective. I actually have no problem with this. People only dig up what they want to dig up, and if it was that traumatic (what he dug up) that he had to go on meds, the real question is, where is he today? That someone has to go on meds as a result of a realization about their past is fairly routine stuff and not in and of itself, evidence of abuse. And when that level of stuff comes up, it doesn't get resolved over night. Sounds like it was profoundly deep, he sought professional help, and I would hope for him that his life took a dramatic turn at that point which he doesn't regret.
Point being, we don't know what happened and the conclusion that Hyde "pushed him too far" is fairly self-serving. You might also say, Hyde opened a door and he stepped through it....but in my experience, no one goes anywhere that deep until they are ready."
Your comment is the prototypical "What Hyde made you do was good for you, so don't complain" response. This is what is driving so many people from Hyde, and for good reason.
The fact -- and I assure you it's a fact -- is that many people have been deeply traumatized by Hyde staff's incredibly unskilled handling of complex emotional and intimate disclosures during FLCs. Hyde's model is so out of step with the rest of the world. Picture this composite scenario: an FLC in Bath where a child is exposed to discussion about how his father was once his mother and underwent a sex change operation. This discussion occurs in front of 15 or so other people. The kid freaks out, feels over-exposed, and deeply embarrassed; by the way, this is a student who got kicked out of his local school because of severe behavioral and mental health issues. Other parents and students squirm in their seats wondering whether they should be privy to this sort of detail. The kid's two parents are screaming hateful comments at each other. All this is being handled by a 23 year-old Hyde teacher who admits she barely made it through college but has done lots of hard work on herself. She has absolutely no training in mental health or group therapy. Some people walk out of that seminar shaking and crying.
No one in his or her right mind should find that scenario acceptable. It's called abusive and negligent. Period. Hyde should be put out of business. No parent should subject his or her child, or him or herself, to that craziness. If Joe Gauld, et al. find this defensible, they're living in a dream world."
Wow. Amazing story. That said, I have to put the bad on that one in the parents failure to handle the situation maturely and responsibly.
You can blame Hyde for pulling it out of him/her, but as I said before, IMHO no one says shit they aren't ready to, and that who knows what was going on for this parent. Maybe it was eating at their insides and they finally blurted it out. Who knows why they did it.
I also have no doubt the Hyde staff probably had little clue how to deal with that one, so if the person finally felt safe in that context because of Hyde's pushing/urging to open up, they bear some responsibility as well.
Fundamentally, however, I place primary responsibility on the parent for that one however. What were they thinking?
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2005, 10:23:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-11 12:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-11-11 03:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-11-10 23:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"QuoteThere was a parent in our "region" who went to an FLC and came back needing to go to the doctor who then put him on strong meds! The doctor told him that because of the trauma he was forced to dig up at the school, he was in dire need of a psychologist at once! I am not exaggerating about this one bit! I was told first hand.
This father ended up having to go on anti-anxiety drugs. It was clear that Hyde had pushed him too far to an area of his life that Hyde was not prepared or capable of dealing with and neither was the husband.
Funny thing, perspective. I actually have no problem with this. People only dig up what they want to dig up, and if it was that traumatic (what he dug up) that he had to go on meds, the real question is, where is he today? That someone has to go on meds as a result of a realization about their past is fairly routine stuff and not in and of itself, evidence of abuse. And when that level of stuff comes up, it doesn't get resolved over night. Sounds like it was profoundly deep, he sought professional help, and I would hope for him that his life took a dramatic turn at that point which he doesn't regret.
Point being, we don't know what happened and the conclusion that Hyde "pushed him too far" is fairly self-serving. You might also say, Hyde opened a door and he stepped through it....but in my experience, no one goes anywhere that deep until they are ready."
Your comment is the prototypical "What Hyde made you do was good for you, so don't complain" response. This is what is driving so many people from Hyde, and for good reason.
The fact -- and I assure you it's a fact -- is that many people have been deeply traumatized by Hyde staff's incredibly unskilled handling of complex emotional and intimate disclosures during FLCs. Hyde's model is so out of step with the rest of the world. Picture this composite scenario: an FLC in Bath where a child is exposed to discussion about how his father was once his mother and underwent a sex change operation. This discussion occurs in front of 15 or so other people. The kid freaks out, feels over-exposed, and deeply embarrassed; by the way, this is a student who got kicked out of his local school because of severe behavioral and mental health issues. Other parents and students squirm in their seats wondering whether they should be privy to this sort of detail. The kid's two parents are screaming hateful comments at each other. All this is being handled by a 23 year-old Hyde teacher who admits she barely made it through college but has done lots of hard work on herself. She has absolutely no training in mental health or group therapy. Some people walk out of that seminar shaking and crying.
No one in his or her right mind should find that scenario acceptable. It's called abusive and negligent. Period. Hyde should be put out of business. No parent should subject his or her child, or him or herself, to that craziness. If Joe Gauld, et al. find this defensible, they're living in a dream world."
Wow. Amazing story. That said, I have to put the bad on that one in the parents failure to handle the situation maturely and responsibly.
You can blame Hyde for pulling it out of him/her, but as I said before, IMHO no one says shit they aren't ready to, and that who knows what was going on for this parent. Maybe it was eating at their insides and they finally blurted it out. Who knows why they did it.
I also have no doubt the Hyde staff probably had little clue how to deal with that one, so if the person finally felt safe in that context because of Hyde's pushing/urging to open up, they bear some responsibility as well.
Fundamentally, however, I place primary responsibility on the parent for that one however. What were they thinking?
"
Perhaps the parents bear some modest responsibility for choosing to share this information in the seminar. But, the bottom line is that Hyde's destructive and negligent model is designed to elicit this kind of self-disclosure. The peer pressure and brainwashing are tremendous influences. In the end, Hyde must accept that it lays the foundation for these very inappropriate scenes. Hyde staff know that the seminars often entail intense, intimate self-disclosure that leads to conflict, emotional distress, and so on. The fact that Hyde promotes and encourages these exchanges is pure negligence, particularly when the group facilitators are so incredibly unskilled and untrained when it comes to handling such complicated mental health issues.
The above scenario may be somewhat extraordinary, but I have witnessed countless others in FLCs and family weekend seminars that, while not as extreme, are just as disturbing (family members yelling at each other, people breaking down emotionally, etc.). If Hyde staff had any conscience, they would be ashamed of themselves for allowing and encouraging this kind of negligence. Hyde's lack of self awareness is very disturbing. Isn't it ironic that Hyde preaches the importance of self awareness and humility when its own conduct is just the opposite?
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2005, 10:26:00 PM
Truth about this incident is that Hyde encourages and pushes parents to come out with these very personal stories. You can't understand how it works unless you have been in one of these seminars.
I was guilty of trying to push other parents when I was a "Hyde fan" and feel ashamed now. I had no right to do this and no training to be in the position I and every parent was put in. When it is someone else's turn to talk about themselves it is expected that you give feedback. If you don't give feedback you are faulted by the other parents and especially the facilitators who are normally the Hyde staff.
I am so sorry for any pain I caused any students or parents by believing I was qualified to deal with people's emotions. I got caught up in the Hyde Cult, but thank God I got out. My advice is to not even get started!
Post by: Antigen on November 11, 2005, 11:26:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-11 19:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
IMHO no one says shit they aren't ready to
Unless, of course, they're subjected to undue influence. It's a legal term. Look it up.
Other anon, how did the staff respond? Did they put a stop to it? Or did they encourage it? Or did they just seem perplexed? Why did the other squirming parents not stand up and put a stop to it?
A good head and good heart are always a formidable combination. But when you add to that a literate tongue or pen, then you have something very special
--Nelson Mandela
_________________
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
Post by: Anonymous on November 12, 2005, 07:31:00 AM
************************************************************************************************
After being in many seminars at Hyde, (FLC's, family weekends) IMHO the parents don't bare any responsibility for this encounter. Hyde absolutely promotes this type of encounter and in fact there is a sick voyereurism that exists at Hyde. Hyde will accuse you of holding back if you don't divulge all your personal "secrets" and there will be tremendous peer pressure put on you.
This is why so many parents completely walk away from Hyde after dropping out or graduating. Most parents feel ashamed by what is known by perfect strangers about themselves. It is psychologically humiliating knowing that these strangers are aware of every detail in your life. Being a part of Hyde means stripping away every last detail of ones personal life in front of not only other parents, but young kids and their sisters and brothers. What in the world is a 50 year old doing telling a bunch of kids about infidelity, homosexuality, former drug use, and suicidal tendencies? Sorry, but I do consider this child abuse when children are exposed and forced to hear these things. The students do not have a choice. They are not allowed to walk out of these seminars or they will be punished.
Parents beware! Yes, Hyde is all the things you are reading about in these posts, and yes Hyde does work for some, but at what cost?
Post by: Anonymous on November 12, 2005, 07:16:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-12 04:31:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Perhaps the parents bear some modest responsibility for choosing to share this information in the seminar. But, the bottom line is that Hyde's destructive and negligent model is designed to elicit this kind of self-disclosure. The peer pressure and brainwashing are tremendous influences. In the end, Hyde must accept that it lays the foundation for these very inappropriate scenes. Hyde staff know that the seminars often entail intense, intimate self-disclosure that leads to conflict, emotional distress, and so on. The fact that Hyde promotes and encourages these exchanges is pure negligence, particularly when the group facilitators are so incredibly unskilled and untrained when it comes to handling such complicated mental health issues.
************************************************************************************************
After being in many seminars at Hyde, (FLC's, family weekends) IMHO the parents don't bare any responsibility for this encounter. Hyde absolutely promotes this type of encounter and in fact there is a sick voyereurism that exists at Hyde. Hyde will accuse you of holding back if you don't divulge all your personal "secrets" and there will be tremendous peer pressure put on you.
This is why so many parents completely walk away from Hyde after dropping out or graduating. Most parents feel ashamed by what is known by perfect strangers about themselves. It is psychologically humiliating knowing that these strangers are aware of every detail in your life. Being a part of Hyde means stripping away every last detail of ones personal life in front of not only other parents, but young kids and their sisters and brothers. What in the world is a 50 year old doing telling a bunch of kids about infidelity, homosexuality, former drug use, and suicidal tendencies? Sorry, but I do consider this child abuse when children are exposed and forced to hear these things. The students do not have a choice. They are not allowed to walk out of these seminars or they will be punished.
Parents beware! Yes, Hyde is all the things you are reading about in these posts, and yes Hyde does work for some, but at what cost?"
You took the words right out of my mouth. It sounds like we've had very similar experiences at Hyde. Our family is so disenchanted with Hyde that we've looked for other schools. At a recent visit with another school we met with the headmaster. During the conversation the headmaster asked us about our child's current school and we told him about Hyde. The headmaster hesitated, looked at us, rolled his eyes and said we didn't need to go into detail. He told us he's heard so many Hyde stories from distressed parents.
The headmaster also described a meeting he attended of boarding school administrators that some Hyde staff attended. The headmaster said he had to leave the room when he heard some Hyde administrator (I don't know which one) pontificating. He said he couldn't handle Hyde's doctrinaire approach. The headmaster's comments confirmed what we had concluded about Hyde's perverse model and disturbing reputation. We sure wish we had known about this website when we were considering Hyde. Any parent considering Hyde should know these facts.
Post by: Anonymous on November 12, 2005, 08:19:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-12 04:31:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Perhaps the parents bear some modest responsibility for choosing to share this information in the seminar. But, the bottom line is that Hyde's destructive and negligent model is designed to elicit this kind of self-disclosure. The peer pressure and brainwashing are tremendous influences. In the end, Hyde must accept that it lays the foundation for these very inappropriate scenes. Hyde staff know that the seminars often entail intense, intimate self-disclosure that leads to conflict, emotional distress, and so on. The fact that Hyde promotes and encourages these exchanges is pure negligence, particularly when the group facilitators are so incredibly unskilled and untrained when it comes to handling such complicated mental health issues.
************************************************************************************************
After being in many seminars at Hyde, (FLC's, family weekends) IMHO the parents don't bare any responsibility for this encounter. Hyde absolutely promotes this type of encounter and in fact there is a sick voyereurism that exists at Hyde. Hyde will accuse you of holding back if you don't divulge all your personal "secrets" and there will be tremendous peer pressure put on you.
This is why so many parents completely walk away from Hyde after dropping out or graduating. Most parents feel ashamed by what is known by perfect strangers about themselves. It is psychologically humiliating knowing that these strangers are aware of every detail in your life. Being a part of Hyde means stripping away every last detail of ones personal life in front of not only other parents, but young kids and their sisters and brothers. What in the world is a 50 year old doing telling a bunch of kids about infidelity, homosexuality, former drug use, and suicidal tendencies? Sorry, but I do consider this child abuse when children are exposed and forced to hear these things. The students do not have a choice. They are not allowed to walk out of these seminars or they will be punished.
Parents beware! Yes, Hyde is all the things you are reading about in these posts, and yes Hyde does work for some, but at what cost?"
This parent's experience is very similar to our own. We too felt like voyeurs when parents and students shared some of the most intimate details of their lives. During breaks and after seminars I heard a number of people comment that they felt forced to disclose information they didn't want to to disclose in order to play Hyde's "game." Everyone who has spent a few months at Hyde knows the drill: You better volunteer your share of intimate details or you'll be accused of holding back and being unwilling to look at your own issues. If you fail to confront other group members you're accused of not being part of the group, not holding others accountable, etc.
As with all cults, some people buy in and stay in. Some parents feel like this is the price they have to pay to keep their child at Hyde, particularly since the child had so much difficulty at other schools, was expelled, etc. Others realize, over time, that at Hyde they've been pulled into something nefarious and damaging. A number of people posting on this website obviously get to a point where they feel sullied by the whole experience and can't bear to continue. These families (ours included) reach a point where they felt like their hands are so dirty from the experience that they decide they have to flee. That's our experience, and we now feel obligated to share it with parents who are at Hyde or thinking about enrolling at Hyde.
Post by: Anonymous on November 15, 2005, 10:52:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-11-09 19:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yes - the seminars--- where is the accrediting board? Reading other parents' experiences of the FLC's, wilderness retreats and seminars brings it all back to me. These were awful times and they were awful not because I did not want to 'face my family issues'. They were awful because they were wrong.
Thankfully I did not bring my other children, as we were often told to.
I do not know how to deal with the memories of what I've heard in the seminars, or my own unresolved participation. So many times people would be crying - it was horrific what was unleashed. We all have issues in our lives, some alot more serious than others. I am forever dismayed that my child witnessed and heard what he did without the benefit of having the painful memories dredged up by people treated in the right way. Reading other parents' posts makes me realize how angry I am, and how much more I need to understand how to heal myself from those times. How can the school stay accredited?"
Our family also feels intense anger toward Hyde because of what we've witnessed in seminars (mostly the FLCs and some family weekend seminars). We can't believe we've participated in these inappropriate, often damaging discussions. We now wish we had shown more courage and challenged this horrible practice. The problem is that many parents try to make it work and give Hyde the benefit of the doubt while they're at the school. Many parents are afraid to speak up out of fear that they or their child will suffer terrible emotional repercussions from Hyde staff. For many of us it has taken quite a long time to realize how unprofessional and destructive many of these seminars are. If only the media and state officials really knew about some of the emotional abuse and Hyde's unprofessional techniques.
Post by: Anonymous on November 27, 2005, 11:37:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-10 23:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"QuoteThere was a parent in our "region" who went to an FLC and came back needing to go to the doctor who then put him on strong meds! The doctor told him that because of the trauma he was forced to dig up at the school, he was in dire need of a psychologist at once! I am not exaggerating about this one bit! I was told first hand.
This father ended up having to go on anti-anxiety drugs. It was clear that Hyde had pushed him too far to an area of his life that Hyde was not prepared or capable of dealing with and neither was the husband.
Funny thing, perspective. I actually have no problem with this. People only dig up what they want to dig up, and if it was that traumatic (what he dug up) that he had to go on meds, the real question is, where is he today? That someone has to go on meds as a result of a realization about their past is fairly routine stuff and not in and of itself, evidence of abuse. And when that level of stuff comes up, it doesn't get resolved over night. Sounds like it was profoundly deep, he sought professional help, and I would hope for him that his life took a dramatic turn at that point which he doesn't regret.
Point being, we don't know what happened and the conclusion that Hyde "pushed him too far" is fairly self-serving. You might also say, Hyde opened a door and he stepped through it....but in my experience, no one goes anywhere that deep until they are ready."
Interesting "Anonymous" how you "have no problem with this." Who in the hell are you that you are deciding what is healthy for a person to go through emotionally? Are you a Doctor? Psychiatrist? Psychologist? You say, "Hyde opened a door and he stepped through it." I find your comments incredibly arrogant! This is so typical of a staff at Hyde. They do believe they are above everyone else, and you speak just like the rest of them! I believe you are drinking the same Kool Aid as Tom Cruise.
Post by: Anonymous on November 28, 2005, 12:13:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-11-27 20:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-11-10 23:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"QuoteThere was a parent in our "region" who went to an FLC and came back needing to go to the doctor who then put him on strong meds! The doctor told him that because of the trauma he was forced to dig up at the school, he was in dire need of a psychologist at once! I am not exaggerating about this one bit! I was told first hand.
This father ended up having to go on anti-anxiety drugs. It was clear that Hyde had pushed him too far to an area of his life that Hyde was not prepared or capable of dealing with and neither was the husband.
Funny thing, perspective. I actually have no problem with this. People only dig up what they want to dig up, and if it was that traumatic (what he dug up) that he had to go on meds, the real question is, where is he today? That someone has to go on meds as a result of a realization about their past is fairly routine stuff and not in and of itself, evidence of abuse. And when that level of stuff comes up, it doesn't get resolved over night. Sounds like it was profoundly deep, he sought professional help, and I would hope for him that his life took a dramatic turn at that point which he doesn't regret.
Point being, we don't know what happened and the conclusion that Hyde "pushed him too far" is fairly self-serving. You might also say, Hyde opened a door and he stepped through it....but in my experience, no one goes anywhere that deep until they are ready."
Interesting "Anonymous" how you "have no problem with this." Who in the hell are you that you are deciding what is healthy for a person to go through emotionally? Are you a Doctor? Psychiatrist? Psychologist? You say, "Hyde opened a door and he stepped through it." I find your comments incredibly arrogant! This is so typical of a staff at Hyde. They do believe they are above everyone else, and you speak just like the rest of them! I believe you are drinking the same Kool Aid as Tom Cruise. "
No where did I decide what was healthy. Someone posted a story and said it was bad. I say, not enough information to know if its good or bad. I do have some experiences where things like this are good, however, so yes, I can imagine a universe where this was all very positive.
IMHO, arrogant more appropriately fits with the original posters negative interpretation of the events. Who were they....doctor? Psychiatrist? No, just some observer with limited facts and a biased frame of reference.
My only point was: In the long run this may have been the most powerfully and positive transformative event in these peoples lives--and who is anyone here to say otherwise.
Post by: Anonymous on November 28, 2005, 10:35:00 AM
There you go again! You say this was simply an observer with limited facts and a biased frame of reference. How do you know this Mr Arrogant? Did the poster say what he/she does for a living? Hyde has enrolled MANY kids whose parents are in the field of Psychology and just MAYBE this person is one of those! Your credibility will be much stronger if you stop assuming and stop being a "know it all!!"
Post by: Anonymous on November 28, 2005, 11:23:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-11-28 07:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
""IMHO, arrogant more appropriately fits with the original posters negative interpretation of the events. Who were they....doctor? Psychiatrist? No, just some observer with limited facts and a biased frame of reference. "
There you go again! You say this was simply an observer with limited facts and a biased frame of reference. How do you know this Mr Arrogant? Did the poster say what he/she does for a living? Hyde has enrolled MANY kids whose parents are in the field of Psychology and just MAYBE this person is one of those! Your credibility will be much stronger if you stop assuming and stop being a "know it all!!"
"
Hmmmm. Your arguement is a bit of a non-sequitur.
You suggest that I suggest (or stated) that the poster was not in the field of psychology, and they might have had more facts and information, and that they weren't biased.
The first point I never come close to saying.
The second point is based on the post itself. Go back and read it. If they had more info, they didn't post it, and personally, you can choose to believe their limited facts and interpretation if you want, but clearly they chose to post limited facts and to write it in a way that made it fairly clear some of their information was not first hand.
On the third point, I say it was biased interpretation because they arrived at a negative conclusion of the circumstances that without more information seemed unwarranted.
Aside from being short on facts, what if the family now says it was the best thing to ever happen in their lives?
I don't presume to be a know it all. But I also won't buy a pig in a poke without having it inspected.
Most of the people on this site seem to have a negative Hyde bias and so are predisposed to believe things that fit with their model.
I have no problem with factual personal experiences. But I will continue to challenge "facts" about observations of third-party experiences and interpretations of what those meant to that person.
Anyway, I think it would be more apt to say I am a "want to know it all, so I can draw more legitimate conclusions". On that I would have to agree.
Post by: Anonymous on November 29, 2005, 10:50:00 AM
I WITNESSED an inner city girl hitting another girl, (my friend) over the head with a bottle. The way that Hyde handled it was the following:
Took her escorted to the hospital without notifying her parents. Hyde didn't tell the hospital how this injury happened. Brought her back to the school after being diagnosed as having a concussion. Still hadn't called the parents. Hyde told the injured girl that because she had been in a fight she would go on 2-4 at 5:00AM the next morning. NO ONE checked on my injured friend the entire night even though she had a concussion and was supposed to be looked in on each hour. She could have died in her sleep and no one would have known till the next morning! My friend called her parents to tell her what happened because the school didn't.
So there is your first hand knowledge! Would you like more because I have lots more!!
Post by: Anonymous on November 29, 2005, 01:13:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 30, 2005, 01:38:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-29 07:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ok, you want first hand experiences? Here it is buddy, and I am sure you will come back with something negative once again.
I WITNESSED an inner city girl hitting another girl, (my friend) over the head with a bottle. The way that Hyde handled it was the following:
Took her escorted to the hospital without notifying her parents. Hyde didn't tell the hospital how this injury happened. Brought her back to the school after being diagnosed as having a concussion. Still hadn't called the parents. Hyde told the injured girl that because she had been in a fight she would go on 2-4 at 5:00AM the next morning. NO ONE checked on my injured friend the entire night even though she had a concussion and was supposed to be looked in on each hour. She could have died in her sleep and no one would have known till the next morning! My friend called her parents to tell her what happened because the school didn't.
So there is your first hand knowledge! Would you like more because I have lots more!! "
Well, actually the discussion was about a third-hand witnessing of some events where the poster drew a negative conclusion and didn't provide sufficient detail to allow the reader to come to that same conclusion.
This is a new post, new subject, but ok, lets discuss.
+How do you know Hyde didn't tell the hospital how the injury happened? That seems odd, just because its typically the patient who tells the doctor what happened, and moreso, that two students had a fight doesn't seem like something that you need G. Gordon Liddy in on to make sure the cover up is complete.
+Did you hear the diagnosis and prescribed standard of care upon discharge?
+Concussion is a very loosely and often misused word. "Concussion has many different meanings to patients, families, and physicians. One definition of concussion is a traumatically induced alteration in mental status with or without associated loss of consciousness." And sometimes people use it for any head injury even if they are fine (if not a little sore or stitched up).
+Do you know what the doctor said in terms of care once discharged? I am surprised the hospital released this person if they were really at risk that night of dying in their sleep, but what you don't seem to know is anything the doctor said and whether Hyde followed this.
+If this was a mild concussion, I have no trouble with her going on 2/4 the next day, relative to whatever limitations the doctor prescibed.
Post by: Anonymous on November 30, 2005, 02:41:00 PM
I won't even dignify your response with much of an answer because you are a joke! The only thing I will say is that yes, yes, and yes. I do know what was said at the hospital, etc based on what both the student and parent told me. Of course they could be lying as you think with anyone who says anything negative about Hyde.
Keep defending Hyde, someone needs to!
Post by: Anonymous on November 30, 2005, 03:40:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-30 11:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Maybe you are the one who got a concusion because no one in their right mind would say the things you have said or recommend that someone go on 2-4 when they were diagnosed with a concussion the night before!
I won't even dignify your response with much of an answer because you are a joke! The only thing I will say is that yes, yes, and yes. I do know what was said at the hospital, etc based on what both the student and parent told me. Of course they could be lying as you think with anyone who says anything negative about Hyde.
Keep defending Hyde, someone needs to!"
Here's how it looks to me. As best I can understand it, your email says Hyde took a student to the hospital for an injury sustained in a fight, and that based on the reports of the student and her parents she was neglected and/or abused in the process.
It seems to me that the only way you could know this is to have been the Hyde administator/teacher handling the matter, as only they know what was communicated to and from the Hospital. That is, how could anyone know about communications between Hyde and the hospital outside the physical presence of the minor student? And given that, how can one draw any conclusions at all about Hyde's treatment of the student?
FWIW, I would also want to know about the circumstances of the fight as well. I'm not sure it would ultimately be relevant, but it seems to me that this back-story could heavily influence how we try and understand limited factual information.
Post by: Anonymous on November 30, 2005, 05:17:00 PM
So, basically what you seem to be saying is that the school is the only person you would believe, and considering it was a young staff member with a history of abuse herself who took the teen to the hospital, I can't buy into your implied theory.
To even ask what kind of fight this girl was in is irrelevant. Even if she had started the fight, (which is not the case) the parents still should have been notified their child had to be taken to the hospital. The parents also should have been updated on her condition after she returned to the school.
Sure am glad you are not my father!! Sounds like if your child was in his room crying and said he was just sexually abused, you would tell him he had to prove it before you would believe him! You certainly are entitled to your opinion and thanks to this great country of ours you are free to say what you want, but my opinion is you have a warped sense of right from wrong.
Post by: Anonymous on November 30, 2005, 06:31:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-30 14:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Your statement tells me that you give no credence to the student who reported this to us nor do you give credence to the Mother who verified the incident.
So, basically what you seem to be saying is that the school is the only person you would believe, and considering it was a young staff member with a history of abuse herself who took the teen to the hospital, I can't buy into your implied theory.
To even ask what kind of fight this girl was in is irrelevant. Even if she had started the fight, (which is not the case) the parents still should have been notified their child had to be taken to the hospital. The parents also should have been updated on her condition after she returned to the school.
Sure am glad you are not my father!! Sounds like if your child was in his room crying and said he was just sexually abused, you would tell him he had to prove it before you would believe him! You certainly are entitled to your opinion and thanks to this great country of ours you are free to say what you want, but my opinion is you have a warped sense of right from wrong."
I am not saying the school is the only person that can be believed, I am saying we simply don't know what the school representatives discussed with the hospital outside of earshot of the student....and so can't jump to any conclusions about medical treatment and abuse.
I totally agree that if they weren't, the family should have been notified. I don't agree that Hyde was medically derelict or abusive of the student.
And FWIW, having watched enough Jerry Springer, if she started a fight and, for instance, caused injury to another person or this was otherwise somehow potentially a liability issue, then I imagine a family saying all sorts of things to protect itself and deflect from the primary issue.
All that goes to say is, I don't buy that there are no facts where the back-story could be relevant.
Post by: Anonymous on November 30, 2005, 07:29:00 PM
Quote
I am not saying the school is the only person that can be believed, I am saying we simply don't know what the school representatives discussed with the hospital outside of earshot of the student....and so can't jump to any conclusions about medical treatment and abuse.
I totally agree that if they weren't, the family should have been notified. I don't agree that Hyde was medically derelict or abusive of the student.
And FWIW, having watched enough Jerry Springer, if she started a fight and, for instance, caused injury to another person or this was otherwise somehow potentially a liability issue, then I imagine a family saying all sorts of things to protect itself and deflect from the primary issue.
All that goes to say is, I don't buy that there are no facts where the back-story could be relevant."
Oh please, are you for real? This girl did not start the fight, (I was there as well as many others) nor was there a liability issue. The parents simply felt it was wrong they could not find out how their daughter was nor were they notified immediately!
Do you also think it is ok that the former Headmaster at Woodstock used to allow underage kids to serve liquor at their private parties! Yes, I do have proof of this from other teachers as well as a couple of students who served the beer and wine as part of their job for the night!
Sorry, but IMHO this school is full of hypocricies!!
You have a very vivid imagination re the girl who was hit with a bottle. I guess it is from watching too much Jerry Springer!
Post by: Anonymous on November 30, 2005, 07:41:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 01, 2005, 01:47:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-11-30 16:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
I am not saying the school is the only person that can be believed, I am saying we simply don't know what the school representatives discussed with the hospital outside of earshot of the student....and so can't jump to any conclusions about medical treatment and abuse.
I totally agree that if they weren't, the family should have been notified. I don't agree that Hyde was medically derelict or abusive of the student.
And FWIW, having watched enough Jerry Springer, if she started a fight and, for instance, caused injury to another person or this was otherwise somehow potentially a liability issue, then I imagine a family saying all sorts of things to protect itself and deflect from the primary issue.
All that goes to say is, I don't buy that there are no facts where the back-story could be relevant."
Oh please, are you for real? This girl did not start the fight, (I was there as well as many others) nor was there a liability issue. The parents simply felt it was wrong they could not find out how their daughter was nor were they notified immediately!
Do you also think it is ok that the former Headmaster at Woodstock used to allow underage kids to serve liquor at their private parties! Yes, I do have proof of this from other teachers as well as a couple of students who served the beer and wine as part of their job for the night!
Sorry, but IMHO this school is full of hypocricies!!
You have a very vivid imagination re the girl who was hit with a bottle. I guess it is from watching too much Jerry Springer! "
If you look at my first statement on this, I propose the concept that the student and parent involved could not possible know what was communicated between the school and the hospital, rendering any conclusions about the schools behavior unwarranted.
THEN -- and I questioned even including this because I knew someone would latch onto this and skip over the fundamental problem with the abuse allegation itself -- I threw out that there were at least plausible scenarios about the fight that might be relevant, so would want to check in there as well.
Your response suggests that everyone should know that these scenarios weren't possible, and were the product of a vivid imagination.
Well here's the thing. There was a time when I accepted what was told to me without questioning it. Truth be told, I still even have a tendency this way.
But do you want to know who taught me not to take things on face value and to question everything? Joe Gauld.
You see, one day a student asked him the meaning of something that he was talking about and Joe looked up and asked the parents and students in the room what they thought it meant. When he realized that virtually no one in a room understood part of what he was saying, he was a astounded that we would sit there, pretending as if we understood, but really too afraid to speak up.
He then shifted the discussion to the general concept of asking questions when you don't understand something, even if you think you might be the only one in the room who doesn't get it.
Anyway, its hard to convey the intensity of the experience, but I can tell you, I will never forget that day, and that was just one of many days where the teachings of Joe Gauld rocked my world.
In this case, it was as if Joe was saying Wake the Fuck Up. Life isn't a dress rehearsal. And you don't have time to go through it pretending you get something when you don't, so ask questions and challenge everything until you get it.
That is what he taught. That is what I try and practice to this day.
I know many of the cool-aid posters will jump and give negative interpretations, but I daresay I wasn't the only one in the room who learned an important life's lesson that day.
Post by: Anonymous on December 01, 2005, 02:17:00 AM
Post by: tommyfromhyde1 on December 01, 2005, 03:57:00 PM
Vain are the thousand creeds that move men's hearts, unutterably vain, worthless as wither'd weeds.
--Emily Bronte
Post by: Lars on December 01, 2005, 09:01:00 PM
Anyone who went to Hyde remembers his preaching at "school meetings." He'd get so worked up, his face would turn purple and he'd say nonsensical things like "you are not americans!!" If the program wasn't so abusive and demeaning, I'd dismiss him as harmless. But he and his cronies have inflicted a lot of emotional damage on people.
Post by: Anonymous on December 01, 2005, 09:02:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-07 12:24:00, Antigen wrote:
"It's sort of comical when you think about it, isn't it? An egomaniacal control freak preaching humility through full disclosure while frantically scurrying about continually trying to obfuscate, divert and intimidate in an effort to keep Hyde's secrets.
What's Hyde got to hide, anyway? God, even the name is ironic as hell! Wouldn't Hyde benefit from full public disclosure?How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate, they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to.
George Orwell, 1984
"
Did you go to Hyde Antigen? You seem to know alot about the school.
Post by: Anonymous on December 01, 2005, 09:41:00 PM
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On 2005-12-01 18:01:00, Lars wrote:
"He's an egomaniac who thinks he's going to revolutionize american education by basing everything on character development. It's actually an interesting concept, but the way they go about it, well...let's just say that I doubt our schools will ever operate like they do at Hyde, not when they find out how things really work there.
Anyone who went to Hyde remembers his preaching at "school meetings." He'd get so worked up, his face would turn purple and he'd say nonsensical things like "you are not americans!!" If the program wasn't so abusive and demeaning, I'd dismiss him as harmless. But he and his cronies have inflicted a lot of emotional damage on people."
I think Joe Gauld would make a fascinating case study. As I wander around Hyde, I consistently hear him described, by different people, as a self-centered, egomaniacal, grandiose, arrogant, narcissistic, and somewhat charismatic figurehead. If one were to line Gauld up adjacent to some well known cult figures, you'd find many similarities.
Despite Gauld's claims to the contrary, he has really had minimal impact on American education. He has managed to operate his own little kingdom, but notice that his model has not been replicated widely, despite its age. If Hyde's model were so compelling, it would be more prominent and widespread. Instead, Hyde groupies talk among themselves in their own inner circle. They seem to have convinced themselves that they're educational leaders. In fact, they have become an embarrassment to many in the educational consultant community. In short, Joe Gauld has become a caricature - a legend in his own mind.
I followed the recommendation of someone here who suggested reading Traub's insightful article on Hyde. This seems like a rather accurate description of Hyde's foibles. If you haven't read, I'd suggest a close look: http://www.educationnext.org/20051/22.html (http://www.educationnext.org/20051/22.html)
Post by: Anonymous on December 01, 2005, 11:07:00 PM
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On 2005-11-30 22:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-11-30 16:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
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I am not saying the school is the only person that can be believed, I am saying we simply don't know what the school representatives discussed with the hospital outside of earshot of the student....and so can't jump to any conclusions about medical treatment and abuse.
I totally agree that if they weren't, the family should have been notified. I don't agree that Hyde was medically derelict or abusive of the student.
And FWIW, having watched enough Jerry Springer, if she started a fight and, for instance, caused injury to another person or this was otherwise somehow potentially a liability issue, then I imagine a family saying all sorts of things to protect itself and deflect from the primary issue.
All that goes to say is, I don't buy that there are no facts where the back-story could be relevant."
Oh please, are you for real? This girl did not start the fight, (I was there as well as many others) nor was there a liability issue. The parents simply felt it was wrong they could not find out how their daughter was nor were they notified immediately!
Do you also think it is ok that the former Headmaster at Woodstock used to allow underage kids to serve liquor at their private parties! Yes, I do have proof of this from other teachers as well as a couple of students who served the beer and wine as part of their job for the night!
Sorry, but IMHO this school is full of hypocricies!!
You have a very vivid imagination re the girl who was hit with a bottle. I guess it is from watching too much Jerry Springer! "
If you look at my first statement on this, I propose the concept that the student and parent involved could not possible know what was communicated between the school and the hospital, rendering any conclusions about the schools behavior unwarranted.
THEN -- and I questioned even including this because I knew someone would latch onto this and skip over the fundamental problem with the abuse allegation itself -- I threw out that there were at least plausible scenarios about the fight that might be relevant, so would want to check in there as well.
Your response suggests that everyone should know that these scenarios weren't possible, and were the product of a vivid imagination.
Well here's the thing. There was a time when I accepted what was told to me without questioning it. Truth be told, I still even have a tendency this way.
But do you want to know who taught me not to take things on face value and to question everything? Joe Gauld.
You see, one day a student asked him the meaning of something that he was talking about and Joe looked up and asked the parents and students in the room what they thought it meant. When he realized that virtually no one in a room understood part of what he was saying, he was a astounded that we would sit there, pretending as if we understood, but really too afraid to speak up.
He then shifted the discussion to the general concept of asking questions when you don't understand something, even if you think you might be the only one in the room who doesn't get it.
Anyway, its hard to convey the intensity of the experience, but I can tell you, I will never forget that day, and that was just one of many days where the teachings of Joe Gauld rocked my world.
In this case, it was as if Joe was saying Wake the Fuck Up. Life isn't a dress rehearsal. And you don't have time to go through it pretending you get something when you don't, so ask questions and challenge everything until you get it.
That is what he taught. That is what I try and practice to this day.
I know many of the cool-aid posters will jump and give negative interpretations, but I daresay I wasn't the only one in the room who learned an important life's lesson that day."
Yes you definitely have been drinking the koolaid. More acurately, I think you have been drinking Jim Jones punch!
Any normal psychologically fit person would read your tribute to Joe Gauld and know immediately that this is a sign of a Cult Leader! We heard the same exact crap from Joe! He is a recovering alcoholic who has found a way to make a buck by preaching to desperate parents who have no where to turn with their out of control kids. His son is taking the reigns along with the rest of the extended family! They are a bunch of losers who won't take a risk themselves by getting a real job!
Quote** "Ask questions and challenge everything"
What happens to the students who ask too many questions or challenge to many things the school tells them to do?
I remember Joe preaching about confronting co-workers. Most of his philosophy would get us fired from our jobs and at the school will surely get the students on 2/4! In Hyde's world you can say anything to anyone as long as you are being honest about it. In the real world there are consequences to opening your mouth to the wrong person or at the wrong time.
Post by: Anonymous on December 11, 2005, 11:51:00 PM
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On 2005-09-28 09:40:00, Anonymous wrote:I have been in many seminars at Hyde and know for a fact if you do not talk about some major issue in your life, you are then critisized and told you are not getting deep enough. They don't give up. You are put in a room with a bunch of total strangers and then asked to talk about your deepest issues, and not one person has a psychology degree. This is not theraputic, and no doctor would think so.
"I understand what you're saying about the seminars, but from the sound of it, you have not actually sat through one of these seminars.
Faculty are participants in the group just as much as they are facilitators, and a lot of the harsh feedback comes from students, parents, AND faculty, so if someone is offended by something, it was not necessarily from a faculty.
The amount of seminars that i have sat through is indefinte, I spent 7 years sitting through seminars, since my brother attended the school before I did. People's boundaries are respected, if there something very personal about their past then they are encouraged to share it, but not required. I know this first-hand. The mandatory journaling questions and such are pretty vague: "what are your hopes and dreams?" "what resentments do you have towards your past?" people can answer however they want.
Again: I don't think that the school is perfect, I was often a student who stood up for things that i disagreed with, and I had many conversations with the headmaster, asst. headmasters, and all my teachers about the things that were not right about the school. But you don't really have the right to talk about that before you really give it a chance...and I don't mean just sitting in a seminar, but really really participating."
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2005, 01:51:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2005, 08:39:00 AM
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On 2005-12-11 22:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You people need to watch sesame street....Learn how to spell"
You are exactly right. There are plenty of mispellings. My guess is that these are students of Hyde who failed them in the way of education!!
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2005, 11:42:00 AM
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On 2005-12-11 22:51:00, Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry it was so hard for you to understand. Maybe this will be better for you. I have been in many seminars at Hyde and know for a fact if you do not talk about some major issue in your life, you are then criticized and told you are not getting deep enough. They don't give up. You are put in a room with a bunch of total strangers and then asked to talk about your deepest issues, and not one person has a psychology degree. This is not therapeutic, and no doctor would think so.
"You people need to watch sesame street....Learn how to spell"
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2005, 03:37:00 PM
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On 2005-12-11 22:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You people need to watch sesame street....Learn how to spell"
Whoever you are that wrote this I would like you to know that I think it was very mean,vicious, and hurtful to make fun of someone's spelling. This post sounded like it was from a student and to make fun of someone when you don't know of their circumstances is cruel. Possibly you didn't think of it that way so I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2005, 05:25:00 PM
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On 2005-12-12 12:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-12-11 22:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You people need to watch sesame street....Learn how to spell"
Whoever you are that wrote this I would like you to know that I think it was very mean,vicious, and hurtful to make fun of someone's spelling. This post sounded like it was from a student and to make fun of someone when you don't know of their circumstances is cruel. Possibly you didn't think of it that way so I will give you the benefit of the doubt."
Until very recently everyone who posted on this board was polite, respectful and seemed to share their honest opinions, concerns and experiences at Hyde. Most recently there are a few people who have been posting in a way that is not very nice, and I ask you to please refrain from all the swearing and insulting other posters.
We have parents, students and faculty posting on this board, and it should continue to be an informative site, not one for insults. Please help us keep it this way.
Post by: Anonymous on December 13, 2005, 03:16:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 13, 2005, 03:37:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 13, 2005, 04:13:00 PM
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On 2005-12-13 12:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Who gives a fuck about spelling or grammer on a goddamn fornits board! Get A FUCKIN LIFE PEOPLE :lol: :lol: :lol: speling iz gud fur yur lyfe"
I wonder whether this board has been discovered by some Hyde students and they find this kind of comment entertaining. If so, I'd hope they'd stop this behavior -- there are distraught parents out there who are using this board to help them make some very important decisions about whether to explore Hyde or pull their kid out. No one should be playing around like this; this is serious stuff.
Worst case scenario: This is just another example of the kind of behavior you have to put up with if you choose to enroll at Hyde.
Post by: Anonymous on December 14, 2005, 01:57:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 14, 2005, 01:59:00 PM
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On 2005-12-14 10:57:00, Anonymous wrote:Ummmmm, you alright there ?? As in "alright in the head"...
"word up my nigga, word is life you homey ::unhappy:: "
Post by: Anonymous on December 14, 2005, 03:10:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 14, 2005, 03:22:00 PM
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On 2005-12-14 12:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I believe that something has happened. I think that the Hyde campus as a whole was made aware of this board, now the staff, students, teachers etc. are throwing their 2 cents in...."
Well if that is the case it shows what kind of students and staff are at Hyde and I think it is a testimonial to what you will encounter if you go to Hyde.
Post by: Hyde's Attorney on December 14, 2005, 03:43:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 14, 2005, 03:44:00 PM
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On 2005-12-14 12:43:00, Hyde's Attorney wrote:
"Rest-assured, no one at Hyde has time for this heavily opinionated, trivial board. We have alot more important things to tend to. "
Seems like you do. :lol:
Post by: Hyde's Attorney on December 14, 2005, 03:47:00 PM
Post by: Hyde's Attorney on December 14, 2005, 03:51:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 14, 2005, 03:55:00 PM
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On 2005-12-14 12:51:00, Hyde's Attorney wrote:
"You obsessed nuts are mere entertainment, thats all!! :wave:
Post by: Anonymous on December 14, 2005, 04:01:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 14, 2005, 04:35:00 PM
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On 2005-12-14 13:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hyde School of Bath, Maine... Saved my life, and my parents!!! Thanks to all the Hyde crew! John S Hastings 93-95"
I'm glad to know that Hyde helped you. That's great. Sadly, that hasn't been the case for so many others, whose Hyde experiences were terribly negative and destructive. The many postings on this website make that abundantly clear. Anyone considering Hyde should be aware of the intense controversy that surrounds Hyde.
Post by: Anonymous on December 14, 2005, 04:42:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 14, 2005, 04:44:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 14, 2005, 04:54:00 PM
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On 2005-12-14 13:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Are you serious? Whats so bad about Hyde???? It changed me into a productive member of society, and made my parents more happy and satisfied than ever!!! John Hastings"
well thats some bs if i ever heard any. get real hydes attorney.
Post by: Anonymous on December 14, 2005, 04:58:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 14, 2005, 05:10:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2005, 12:24:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2006, 02:43:00 AM
While i was there looking at it for the first time, i could tell that everything felt very eerie, everyone was exactly like one another, were physically alike, and all seemed to be apart of one big "family."
the guides that i got felt somehow different, as if loyal to the school. they seemed as if they were picked out as someone more dedicated to hyde than the others.
as i walked around the staff i saw varied from very young teachers, to older people who i found had an odd loyalty to hyde, most coming out of the war or showing support of it.
Now that i have read all of this i feel like ive come to an epiphany because everything im reading here, is describing what i couldnt before.
take a look at this school, it somehow feels to be very different and odd, as if it were a cult.