Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Facility Question and Answers => Topic started by: Halflinger on October 20, 2011, 03:26:55 AM

Title: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Halflinger on October 20, 2011, 03:26:55 AM
A friend of mine had been sent to Mountain Homes Youth Ranch for the summer, never came home, and is now "somewhere else". From what I gathered, which wasn't much, she's in Utah, and the program sounds pretty standard (supervised phone calls, level system, etc.) Anyone know anything about this Mountain Homes place?
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Oscar on October 20, 2011, 05:05:12 AM
We have a Fornits Wiki datasheet (http://http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php?title=Mountain_Homes_Youth_Ranch) on this place but there is not that much on it.

HEAL-online has a staff-information page here (http://http://www.heal-online.org/mtnhomes.htm).

There is also an old thread here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=22160).
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Halflinger on October 20, 2011, 02:23:32 PM
Thanks Oscar. The contract pdf in the old thread certainly throws a different light on the "positive experience" her parents claim, what with the whole ordeal culminating in a written confession.
What is the possible connection mentioned between this place and Aspen Education? they seem to be an independent. Previously owned by, a spin-off or clone? Run by folks that were trained or employed by Aspen?
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Che Gookin on October 20, 2011, 05:45:34 PM
Judging from Heal's page I'd say this place is part of the Utah Mormon Mafia's clique. Few too many BYU grads in the mix.

Chilling part is the use of PCS, positive control systems...

PCS being pain compliance via various wrist locks and pressure points to gain control over others.

Take a look at the HEAL information, it's tends to lean towards a WWASP connection more than an ASPEN link. Which isn't surprising as WWASP gets schools shut down so often their staff must be traveling in Gypsy convoys from school to school.
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Che Gookin on October 20, 2011, 05:47:25 PM
Hold on...

How old is your friend? Because the fornits thread says the place is for 18 years old and older.
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Xelebes on October 20, 2011, 06:31:06 PM
No there are two units: Mountain is under 18, Ashley Valley is over 18.
Title: Mountain Homes Youth Ranch
Post by: Ursus on October 20, 2011, 07:28:10 PM
From the program's homepage (http://http://www.mhyr.com/):

Mountain Homes Youth Ranch is a therapeutic growth program for troubled teens (coed ages 12-17). On our 15,000 acre private Ranch in Colorado struggling teens are given opportunity for emotional and physical challenge. Our supportive and non-judgmental environment leads our students to view their abilities in a different perspective. Students experience success that challenges negative belief systems.

If you have a troubled teen and need help we would like to speak with you about the positive and successful Mountain Homes Youth Ranch program.

Admissions Office: 866-781-2450.
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»> See Also (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/printer_MountainHomesYouthRanchNP_100426.shtml).
Title: Ashley Valley Wilderness
Post by: Ursus on October 20, 2011, 07:38:38 PM
From the homepage of their sister program for young adults:

Drug Rehab & Therapy Program for Adults ages 18-25 (http://http://www.ashleyvalleywilderness.com/)

The Ashley Valley Wilderness program is a year round (coed) outdoor based therapy and drug rehabilitation program for young adults ages 18-25. AVW is located on a beautiful 15,000 acre working ranch in Northwest Colorado. AVW offers treatment services for drug and alcohol related problems as well as help for young adults who can't seem to set their course for their future. Young adults that lack self-esteem and direction find it at AVW.

AVW has a high success rate for helping young adults to move on to successful lives and drug rehabilitation.

Fore more information about AVW's program call 866-781-2450.
[/list]

»> See Also (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/printer_AshleyValleyWildernessNP_100331.shtml).
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Halflinger on October 21, 2011, 03:53:38 PM
Thanks for the tips guys. not lookin so hot. Found a less than stellar review from a former attendee of AVW.  http://http://ashleyvalleywilderness.blogspot.com/ sounds like a real blast. Could be helpful to contact the man for your records, Oscar, but this was the 18+ version, so not so sure how much crosses over to MHYR.
Again, my friend has already been moved out of there, but at least I've got a better idea of how to approach things after she gets back from wherever she currently is.
Title: Mountain Homes Youth Ranch vs. Ashley Valley Wilderness
Post by: Ursus on October 21, 2011, 04:28:51 PM
Quote from: "Halflinger"
Thanks for the tips guys. not lookin so hot. Found a less than stellar review from a former attendee of AVW.  http://http://ashleyvalleywilderness.blogspot.com/ sounds like a real blast. Could be helpful to contact the man for your records, Oscar, but this was the 18+ version, so not so sure how much crosses over to MHYR.
Again, my friend has already been moved out of there, but at least I've got a better idea of how to approach things after she gets back from wherever she currently is.
One thing that is very clear, from comparison of the two websites, is that the two programs have the same address, the same phone number for contact purposes, the same two owners, essentially the same staff, and the same promotional video on both homepages (even labeled as being for both programs). I'd venture that the two programs are pretty similar save that the one targeting the younger population may be a bit more involved.

The two co-owners (other than potential strawmen) are Rob Caldwell and Marty Bingham.
Title: ASHLEY VALLEY WILDERNESS PROGRAM WARNING
Post by: Ursus on October 21, 2011, 04:38:03 PM
Here's that not so flattering blog entry (this is a blog, but there is only one entry thus far):

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ASHLEY VALLEY WILDERNESS PROGRAM WARNING (http://http://ashleyvalleywilderness.blogspot.com/)

Ashley Valley Wilderness (AVW) Drug Rehab Program is a lie and I want to help you before you send your child there at which point it will be to late and you will be out of a lot of money. this pseudo therapeutic program is not the right choice in rehab and I would like to advise you against sending your child there.

(http://http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VnLKbDAlK7k/TGPG-gOP3CI/AAAAAAAAAFs/BXHGLkuLsbE/S250/images.jpeg)
Ashley Valley may show you pretty pictures but that doesn't prove much

--------------

Wednesday, August 11, 2010
A WARNING BEFORE YOU SEND YOUR CHILD (http://http://ashleyvalleywilderness.blogspot.com/2010/08/warning-before-you-send-your-child.html)

I attended ashley valley wilderness and feel totally betrayed. If you are looking to send your adult child to this program you should consider some of the following before you do so because my family and I felt very deceived after my stay there. They claim to be a wilderness program but there isn't much wilderness to it other than the fact that you sleep in a tent and make your food at a fire. They claim to take your child on hikes and do all sorts of outdoor activities and they even show you some videos on their website this is all false(towards the end of your stay the owner Marty takes you out fishing but this only happens once in your entire stay). During my stay at Ashley Valley we would go on an hour long hike once a week every other hour is spent on what they refer to as "blackout" (no one can talk to each other) during blackout you are expected to complete a packet and if you dont finish this packet you fail your week and have to stay another. These packets are the only form of help they offer your child while they are there. They also only let you speak to your kid once every other week for an hour with a therapist there they do this so your child can't truly explain what is going on at the program. The packets offer little to no help in terms of recovery they are simple fill in the blanks and define the term packets that look like they were photocopied from some random textbook. When a packet is not finished by the end of the week you are expected to stay an extra week and do the same packet again and also write a 3 page paper on why you couldn't complete the packet none of this therapeutic in any way. Also when you stay another week you are expected to fork out thousands of more dollars to the program. Which reminds me about the money side of this program the staff and the directors are paid the same amount of money I gained this information from and employee that quit because he felt that the program was a scam this pay is modest compared to what Marty Bingham and Rob Caldwell get they both have very nice trucks and wear fancy cloths and Marty owns a very very large house outside of Vernal which he offers to RENT to you when you come and visit your child (as if 40,000 wasn't enough) it is obvious where your 40,000 dollars go when your at the program they go so far as to not explain the money aspect of this to students in fear that you will write home and shine light on what your family has been conned into. Most all of the staff are not certified counselors and really have no knowledge of addiction, in fact your addiction is not allowed to be talked about while you are there if you do they fail your week and make you stay another. pretty much everything you do at this program can fail your week they do this on purpose because they want to make more money. please i wouldn't make this blog if i didn't want to truly warn people about the conning this program will do to you they make you pay up front because of this. There are many other wilderness programs out there such as outward bound and blackwater those programs are very good and you child will do nothing but hike and spend time outdoors and learn how to live in the woods while also engaging in beneficial dialogue with staff. If you are considering sending your child to this program please email me and ask me your questions don't be sold this by one of the crafty salespeople at this program. I have been to this program and my family and I will be happy to explain to you in further detail why this is a terrible program. This program has much potential and isn't as bad as other programs but for the money you pay to send your child there it is not worth it. TRUST ME there are plenty of other programs. they really exploit the whole doctor phil thing too. I WANT TO GIVE YOU A NON BIASED opinion about this program any former students or parents they put you in contact with are totally biased and say exactly what the program wants them to say they totally lied to my family and me. I went into this program thinking i would be hiking every day and learning about nature and then engage in group therapy where we could openly talk about our issues nothing could be further from the truth and the therapists they put you in contact with are not PHD psychologists which they could easily afford and are very closed minded people who try to tell you to submit to people and let others control you if you ask me this is just teaching your child to be even more co-dependent.

I want to help you and could even point you in the direction of many other better wilderness programs for adults that aren't nearly as expensive.

please feel free to call me at
214 642 5474

email me at [email protected]

or find me on Facebook as Alex Roderer (my Facebook is goofy and unprofessional but i'm a college student so dont be discouraged)

Posted by Alex at 11:59 PM
Labels: Ashley Valley
Title: Mountain Homes Youth Ranch - Information Packet
Post by: Ursus on October 21, 2011, 11:03:22 PM
Well... I take back what I said earlier. This Information Packet (copied out below) makes Mountain Homes Youth Ranch sound a lot more involved than Ashley Valley Wilderness. On the other hand, I s'pose a lot depends on just how assiduously these regimens are followed in practice...

Pdf download is 18 pages.

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Mountain Homes Youth Ranch (http://http://www.fornits.com/docs/mhyr.pdf)
"Helping Youth Find their True Path"
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Dear Parent and Professionals,

Thank you for your interest in the programs at Mountain Homes Youth Ranch. This Information packet is designed to acquaint you with the work we do at Mountain Homes and is the first step in deciding if our facility is the appropriate placement for your child.

Selecting the appropriate program for your child is a difficult discovery experience filled with a myriad of choices. Wilderness therapy programs have some basic concepts in common; however, each program takes a different approach and their philosophies vary greatly. At Mountain Homes some of the unique aspects of our program are:

Our philosophy is based on the unconditional respect and valuing of our students. Our methodology has been tested and its effectiveness is recognized nationwide. At Mountain Homes, we do not prescribe to the treatment theory of deprivation or demeaning our students. We are not a boot camp, but have a supportive environment specifically designed to help your child overcome their negative behavior patterns to raise their self-esteem to a highly functioning level. We use a variety of life skill training tools to assist them in accepting accountability for their actions, creating a clear-cut life plan, and a successful reintegration into their home and community.

Please feel free to contact our office at any time to speak to an admissions counselor, the program directors, or the clinical director. We hope we are able to assist you, and your child to discover a positive life path.

Sincerely,

Marty Bingham
Program Director

Rob Caldwell
Clinical Director

--------------

The Program Basics:

The MHYR program is divided into three phases. The minimum recommended stay at Mountain Homes is 84 days. The three phases are:


PHASE ONE - Beginning Wilderness

The Beginning Wilderness phase can be completed in twenty-one (21) days if the student displays willingness to participate. The Beginning phase consists of the following three modules:

Arrival and Orientation

This step orients our students into their new environment. During this phase your child will:

During the first 24 hours your child is expected to remain silent. The student can ask questions of their staff when absolutely necessary but are not allowed to communicate with other group members. This period of observation helps the student understand the dynamic of the group and gives them the opportunity to reflect on the reasons they came to Mountain Homes. The length of the orientation period depends fully on the student's willingness to participate. When the student is ready to begin working the program the orientation period is complete.

Cause and Effect

Once the student has demonstrated a willingness to participate in the program we begin a discovery process based on the age old principle of cause and effect. We explore how: Their behavior in the past has affected where they are today.

The students participate in professional counseling in which they explore issues causative to their placement in the MHYR program. Our professional staff assists them in identifying and processing those issues as they begin to develop new perspectives on old patterns of behavior.

Changing Behavior Patterns

When the student accepts responsibility for their current situation and makes the connection that their poor choices are the reason they have had such difficulty in life we begin to help them overcome the destructive patterns they have developed. During this phase your child will:

During the Beginning Wilderness Phase our students are required to accept responsibility and are allowed to experience the natural consequences of their behavior. They are given a clearly defined course of expectations and the natural consequences of not accepting the responsibility they are given are clearly outlined.

These consequences are designed to be a positive reinforcement of the learning concepts outlined in our program. Food, shelter, and protection from the elements are never withheld as devices of punishment. It is important to restate that consequences for non-compliance by participants to program rules are always related directly to the infraction and are never punitive in nature. Our expectations of each student during this phase are as follows:

Participants may not fully realize at the time how these skills help them from a therapeutic or behavioral change perspective. They later learn that when certain processes are followed, through commitment, determination, and hard work, goals can be achieved. For example; building a fire using a primitive bow-drill set requires a person to be patient and persistent while remaining in control of intensified emotions. Creating fire with a bow drill develops a heightened and realistic sense of self-esteem due to the natural difficulty of the task. It is a difficult task to master, but the reward of warmth, cooked food, and comfort makes it a worthwhile exercise. Survival skills are specifically chosen to bring up behavioral issues in our students by challenging previous patterns of negative behavior and poor coping skills. These processes help your child form a work ethic and will allow them to develop a perspective on the relationship of effort and outcome. They will experience results as they work through the processes of defining a task, developing goals, establishing a plan, putting forth effort, overcoming obstacles, and observing outcomes from their consistent and determined work.

PHASE TWO - Advanced Wilderness

The Advanced Wilderness Phase is designed to be completed in twenty-one (21) days and is specifically for students that have either completed Phase One of the MHYR program The Advanced Wilderness Phase consists of the following four modules:

Demonstration of Learned Life Skills

At Mountain Homes we work with our students to develop a set of life skills. Our students are given the opportunity many times during an average day to display knowledge of these skills through use of experiential games, role-playing, and life situations. The life skills we focus on are:


Restoring Family and Community Ties

The majority of the youth in the programs at Mountain Homes Youth Ranch have caused chaos in their home and lost the trust of their family, friends, and community. We work with the family and the student throughout the program to develop boundaries and workable solutions to prior difficulties. During the program our students are required to:


Academics

Students in our program typically have emotional challenges that have had a negative affect on their academics. At Mountain Homes, we have a qualified staff to work with the student's behavioral issues while maintaining the necessary perspective to allow them to achieve their academic goals. Our program successfully integrates the emotional, physical, and intellectual needs of our students to create a nurturing environment conducive to learning. Academically, in our Advanced Wilderness Phase students have the opportunity to do some of the following:


Planning for the Future

At Mountain Homes Youth Ranch we provide a therapist guided program to help your child understand the relationship between education, career, money, and lifestyle. We provide each student with a set of exercises that ask real life questions about what they want out of life. They can discover how their hopes and expectations fit in the real world. This planning tool will help your child:

Each Mountain Homes student completes a life plan prior to graduation. The plan includes a variety of applicable goals and a written plan for obtaining those goals. During the Advanced Wilderness Stage students live in a community setting and are required to participate and shoulder various tasks necessary to sustain the community. In this phase everyone shares responsibility equally for community living. Emphasis is placed on the interdependency of community members through using skills learned in the Beginning phase in a cooperative effort to sustain peaceful and productive life in a family setting. The positive pressure from their peers is a great motivator in keeping the student on task and the rewards of contributing to the comfort and well-being of their wilderness family are great. Our expectations of Advanced Wilderness students are that they:

Once a student has mastered the skills necessary to be self-sustaining they will experience a 2 to 3 day solo. During the solo experience the student will use their newly acquired skills to set up a one-man campsite within prescribed specifications, and to be completely self-reliant in fire-starting, meal preparation, personal hygiene, and waste disposal. The purpose of the solo experience is to reinforce the skills and strengths of the individual and to increase esteem related issues of preparedness, self-reliance, goal setting, decision-making, and follow-through.

Parents may also choose to schedule an adventure experience they can share with their child at this time. The staff at Mountain Homes will help the family schedule an appropriate experience if desired. Some examples of an adventure quest are a river rafting trip, 4-wheeling in the mountains, a boating excursion, or a horse-packing trip.

PHASE THREE - Ranch Phase

The Ranch Phase is designed for students that have completed the Advanced Wilderness Phase and need additional time to work on their life skills, academics, and work ethic. The Ranch Phase at Mountain Homes is open-ended and is an excellent transitioning tool to the child's home, independent living, a residential treatment center, or an emotional growth boarding school.

The students in the Ranch Phase are semi-nomadic and live in a family setting. They plan and prepare their meals together and determine the split of responsibility for maintaining their camps. The daily life at the Ranch is highly structured and students continue to have a high level of supervision; however, during this phase they have more personal time, more study time, and are allowed more privileges.

During the Ranch Phase all aspects of a typical day are opportunities to apply and reinforce learned skills. The staff works continually with the student to help them understand their behavior challenges, see the need to change, and to generalize these changes into everyday aspects of their lives. Students continue weekly therapy sessions with their counselor, twice monthly family therapy sessions, and daily group therapy.

When a student enters the Ranch Phase of the Mountain Homes program he or she will study a variety of subjects that will be useful and applicable throughout their lives. This phase of the program emphasizes vocational skills during which participants are put to work in a hands-on program where basic skills are taught and put to use. Learning and mastering these skills often requires the student to delay immediate gratification and to see the reward of persistence and effort. Experiencing the reward for consistent effort becomes an important learning experience that applies to many other aspects of the child's life.

During the Ranch Phase at Mountain Homes students are able to:

The Ranch Phase culminates with a graduation seminar specifically designed to incorporate the student's learned skills and personal interests. Your child's therapist and the program directors will work with you and the student to design a memorable and enjoyable graduation experience for your child.

Academics

The academic program at Mountain Homes Youth Ranch is designed to work with all the therapeutic objectives and promote authentic learning experiences. The outdoor classroom provides a diverse physical setting that allows student to learn weather reporting (study of the earth's atmosphere), astronomy (study of the night sky) and the biology of local plants and animals. The "hands-on" experiences also help to make learning interesting and fun for the students. These experiences encourage positive expressive personal growth while making the link of learning from books to real life experiences.

We typically find our students have emotional challenges that have had a negative affect on their academics. At Mountain Homes our qualified staff will work the student's behavioral issues while maintaining the necessary perspective to allow them to achieve their academic goals. Our program successfully integrates the emotional, physical and intellectual needs of our students to create a nurturing environment conducive to learning.

The Mountain Home academic program focuses on Science, Psychology, Social Studies, Physical Education, Communication and Speech, Health Education, Language Arts and Food and Nutrition. In our program, students will take part in activities that will teach them valuable skills, give them positive experiences and give them the opportunity to complete written educational booklets which will give them school credit. School credits for program participation can be earned in all phases of the program. Our Education Director, a certified Secondary Education teacher with a Bachelor Degree in History and Psychology, will direct the students learning, assess their knowledge and grade their work accordingly. Upon completion of the program, the course description and completed grades will be forwarded to their school where they will determine the appropriate credit.

In addition to the academic credits that may be earned for participation in the program there are other options available at Mountain Homes. After a student has passed their 3 weeks or during the Ranch Phase Mountain Homes students may be able to do some of the following:


Therapy

The Role of Mountain Homes Youth Ranch:

Mountain Homes Youth Ranch is a therapeutic growth program that provides the struggling adolescent with an opportunity for emotional and physical challenge. Our supportive and non-judgmental environment leads our students to view themselves and their abilities in a different perspective. Each student experiences daily success that challenges their negative belief system and opens the door to new and positive self perception.

At Mountain Homes your child is given the opportunity to accomplish different tasks in a safe setting. Students complete challenging wilderness skills that bring therapeutic issues to the forefront. For example a student may choose to give up on a task at home or school when it becomes more difficult than expected. Students are held accountable to complete difficult tasks in a time appropriate manner before she/he can advance to the next week of the program. Students will experience frustration, impatience, anger, lack of focus etc., as they work there way through these difficult tasks. The feeling of accomplishment a students feels when they triumph over the task at hand build true self-esteem and a feeling of being capable that has been absent in there lives. We allow youth to learn, not by telling them what to do, but through their own experience. We acknowledge it is not the responsibility of the parents or the staff at Mountain Homes to fix your child's life. Our responsibility is to provide them with the knowledge, skills, and structure to fix their own life. Our intervention is designed to bring maladaptive behaviors into the open and to open the student up to the therapeutic process. This gives them the opportunity to experience success and the respect of the staff and their peers first-hand.

Our success with our students comes from helping them perceive how their actions today affect their success tomorrow. Understanding the basic rule of cause and effect will help them see how.

The staff and directors at Mountain Homes firmly believe in the importance of mutual respect and responsibility. All negative behavior is confronted through positive intervention and we do not use deprivation therapy or intimidation. We want to help your child break their destructive patterns and discover, on their own, the reward for honesty, positive initiative, and respect.

At Mountain Homes Youth Ranch:


The Role of the Parents:

The success of your child depends greatly on your willingness to grow and change with them. At Mountain Homes we work with the family to develop a success plan - not just with the acting-out teen. As a parent we ask that you be willing to.


Parenting Course

While your student is working on their behavioral issues at Mountain Homes we ask that parents participate in a ten week parenting seminar either in their area or in their home using a series of workbooks and video tapes. The immediate and continued success of our students is greatly enhanced when you commit to partnering with your child to help them overcome their specific challenges.

Our parenting seminar, Developing Capable Young People is based on H. Stephen Glenn and Jane Nelsons extensive experience and research into methods for healing frayed family relationships. The Capable People program is based on the assumption that to change behavior we must first change perceptions. For example, if an individual perceives himself to be incapable and a failure, he will behave in ways that validate that perception. By teaching the child certain perceptions and skills, he or she can begin to view themselves as a valuable and capable individual and, thus, behave in a fashion supportive of the newly acquired perception.

Using the H. Stephen Glenn strategies for developing capable people is an integral part of the therapeutic process at Mountain Homes Youth Ranch. By becoming well-versed in the methodology used in the Capable People program parents can reinforce and understand the changes their child has strived to make.

A list of workshop dates and locations can be viewed at http://www.capabilitiesinc.com (http://www.capabilitiesinc.com) or you can call the workshop facilitator at (800) 456-7770. If a workshop is not offered in your immediate area you can order the course material and complete the seminar in your home. If you decide to complete the course at home, your child's therapist will assist you in processing and internalizing the course material. The required materials for completion of the course are a:


Family Conference

During the final days of your child's enrollment at Mountain Homes Youth Ranch, parents are required to participate in a parenting/family therapy conference. It is important that you reunite with your child in a way that establishes a high level of mutual respect and communication. A therapist will help you develop some realistic ground rules and you will have the opportunity to reconnect in a controlled and supportive environment.

Safety

At Mountain Homes Youth Ranch we acknowledge that risk is inherent in wilderness programs. Awareness of that fact has made the safety and well-being of your child our primary concern and greatest responsibility. We take this responsibility very seriously and due to our strict adherence to policy and our commitment to continued staff training we have a remarkable safety record. We are aware of the possibility of injury and have put the following safeguards in place to assure the continued safety and well-being of our students:

At Mountain Homes we are committed to treating your child with respect and honor. We do NOT prescribe to the treatment theory of demeaning students or deprivation. At NO time will food, water, or shelter be withheld from your child as a form of punishment. We believe in natural consequences and have a highly supportive environment. We do not go on forced hikes or attempt to break kids down mentally and physically in a paramilitary boot-camp type of program. Remember; our program is based on the concept of respecting and valuing our students.

Regardless of your child's behavior they will ALWAYS be treated with kindness, respect, and care. Any staff that does not adhere strictly to our disciplinary policies will be terminated without delay.


References:

We understand how difficult it is to make the decision to send your child to a place that is virtually unknown to you. We want our parents to know us prior to enrolling their child. It is important to us that you feel completely comfortable with your choice. Our program is:

We respect the confidentiality of our parents and the teens enrolled in our group, but have a number of parents and graduated students that have agreed to share their experience at Mountain Homes Youth Ranch with parents considering our program for their teen. Your admissions counselor will provide you with a list of professional and parent references you can call if you express serious interest in Mountain Homes.

Tuition:

Mountain Homes Youth Ranch is one of a few wilderness therapy programs in the United States to offer parents a full two (2) years guarantee on our services. A common question from parents is what happens if my child returns home and goes back to the same behavior? If you child completes the three phase program (minimum 105 days) at Mountain Homes, and there is 100% parent participation, and the follow-up care is provided, the odds are your child will be successful and not return to their prior behavior. If they do return home and fall into their previous negative behavior patterns within two (2) years of graduating Mountain Homes, they can repeat our 42 day wilderness phase for a minimal outfitting fee.

Our base tuition is $325 per day. The base tuition covers your child's room, board, therapy, skill learning tools, 24-hour supervision, therapy, and accommodations.

The minimum recommended stay at Mountain Homes is 84 days. Parents who choose to pay the 12 or 15 week program at the time of enrollment receive a discounted daily rate. The first 42 days of the program tuition are due when you enroll your student. If your child continues with the Extended Phase the tuition is due within 10 days of the student's transition. We do accept Visa, MasterCard, and American Express with a 2% service.

If your child has academic needs you are required to provide curriculum from the Student's home school or pay the cost of distance learning courses from an accredited university. Depending on the course, the cost is usually around $190.

College level courses typically cost around $250.00.

There is an outfitting fee of $750/Winter or $500/Summer that covers the cost your Child's hiking boots, their sleeping bag, clothing, and their backpack. The student will return home with these items.

Parents are advised to purchase materials for the Capable Peoples course or attend a seminar in their area. Current cost of materials range from $80.00 to $285.00 depending on parent preference in materials, (audio, vs. video).

You are responsible for your child's transportation to and from the program. We will meet your child at the gate of the airline of your choice in Grand Junction. Colorado. If your child is 18 or older you may use the airport in Salt Lake City, UT.

You are also responsible for your expenses to attend the parenting seminar at our facility.

If your child needs an escort to the program you are responsible for that expense. We can provide you with a list of escorts we have had personal experience with.

Additional miscellaneous expenses are:
There are situations when an insurance company may cover a portion of the cost of the program. It is the parent's responsibility to pursue reimbursement. Mountain Homes will provide you with a billing statement that contains the diagnostic codes the insurance company will need, but it is up to you to obtain the coverage. Our experience has shown insurance companies will, with the parent's perseverance, cover, at minimum, the cost of therapy during the program. We do not accept insurance payments. As parents you are the financially responsible party and have full responsibility for tuition payments. If you have questions regarding insurance coverage please feel free to talk to your admissions counselor at Mountain Homes.

We will do our best to assist you with obtaining coverage or reimbursement.

Location

The field operations are located 60 minutes from Grand Junction, Colorado. Rangely, Colorado is the closest town to our field. The intake office is located in Vernal, Utah approximately one and one half hours from the field operations.

The addresses for the two offices are:

Base Office
247 South Vernal Ave.
Vernal, Utah 84078

Field Operations
Douglas Pass, Colorado

Toll-Free (866) 781-2450
Fax (435) 781-2442

We hope this packet has answered many of your questions about Mountain Homes Youth Ranch; however, feel free to contact one of our admissions counselors toll free at (866) 781-2450 or email http://www.mhyr.com (http://www.mhyr.com)[/b][/size]


Copyright © 2005 - 2011 Mountain Homes Youth Ranch.
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Halflinger on October 22, 2011, 02:03:35 AM
Thanks, Ursus. I had requested, but not yet received, that information. 18 pages of more heat than light. Seems to me that some basics shine through, though: All blame is placed on the kid. Importance is placed first on written self-criticism and confession, second, on what looks like mostly time-wasting activites (day hikes, watered-down academics and... beadwork? seriously?) and third, on therapy.  
The concept of "natural consequences" rubs me the wrong way, as well. The laundry example given seems fairly benign, but how far is that taken? It seems applying that philosophy across the board would endanger the guarantee of adequate food and shelter, if say a kid lost their meal into a fire or soaked their gear. Philosophically, as well, as I can't really conceive of natural consequences existing, period, in that sort of manufactured and regulated social environment.
Title: Re: Mountain Homes Youth Ranch - Information Packet
Post by: Ursus on October 24, 2011, 10:34:19 AM
Quote from: "Halflinger"
Thanks, Ursus. I had requested, but not yet received, that information. 18 pages of more heat than light. Seems to me that some basics shine through, though: All blame is placed on the kid. Importance is placed first on written self-criticism and confession, second, on what looks like mostly time-wasting activites (day hikes, watered-down academics and... beadwork? seriously?) and third, on therapy.  
The concept of "natural consequences" rubs me the wrong way, as well. The laundry example given seems fairly benign, but how far is that taken? It seems applying that philosophy across the board would endanger the guarantee of adequate food and shelter, if say a kid lost their meal into a fire or soaked their gear. Philosophically, as well, as I can't really conceive of natural consequences existing, period, in that sort of manufactured and regulated social environment.
I agree. Given the seeming importance of self criticism and confession (that "come clean letter" gets mentioned twice in the above Information Packet (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=38033&p=407265#p407176)), this place appears to presume a lot of guilt. Whether or not that is warranted, I have no clue.

There is always the danger, when an organization sets itself up as The Moral Authority on what a kid has done wrong and what they need to do to "fix it," that serious incidents of sexual assault or abuse and/or signs of dangerous physiological distress, above and beyond the systemic mindfuckery, go unnoticed, are discounted or dismissed as lying or faking, and are sometimes even punished. Consequences of that can be, and have been, fatal.

Of course, all these programs claim that they are above and beyond that, and yet these incidents continue to occur, even in the supposedly less abusive programs. Perhaps paradoxically, perhaps not, is the phenomenon that all this emphasis on accountability and "natural consequences" is rarely, if ever, applied by the program to their OWN actions or lack thereof. I s'pose that being the moral authority on such matters must make them exempt from such self analysis?
Title: ...and is now "somewhere else"
Post by: Ursus on October 26, 2011, 11:20:07 PM
Quote from: "Halflinger"
A friend of mine had been sent to Mountain Homes Youth Ranch for the summer, never came home, and is now "somewhere else". From what I gathered, which wasn't much, she's in Utah, and the program sounds pretty standard (supervised phone calls, level system, etc.), other than the brief comment that "they're Buddhists."  Sounds like horsesh** to me, but Dialectical Behavior Therapy is pretty trendy at the moment.
Ya know, I've been trying to wrack my brain as to what that other program might be, and I'm afraid that no possibilities really jump out at me. Is there any other info you have, however seemingly trivial?

In the meantime, however, here are some thoughts:

The comment that "they're Buddhists," outside of at first glance being completely oxymoronic, actually suggests to me that it is a very small program, with the owners perhaps considering themselves Buddhists, as opposed to a program per se portraying itself as Buddhist. Moreover, this kind of info might not have been communicated, or known, when it came to describing a larger program, or one that is under the umbrella of a larger organization with more standardized propaganda prepared for parental consumption.

If it *is* under the umbrella of a larger organization, Aspen Ed (owned by CRC Health Group) or CEDU (now owned by UHS, Inc.) would appear as more likely candidates for that role than the Mormon-influenced cabal of WWASPS, et al. There are also smaller organizations operating programs in Utah, e.g. InnerChange (previously known as Solacium Holdings), which has links to both WWASPS and Aspen, and CERTS.

It bears noting, however, that Rob Caldwell, one of the Mountain View owners, appears to have links to the Utah juvie system by virtue of his previous job history. That generally speaks of Mormon connections, one way or another...
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Halflinger on October 27, 2011, 01:18:52 PM
Quote
Ya know, I've been trying to wrack my brain as to what that other program might be, and I'm afraid that no possibilities really jump out at me. Is there any other info you have, however seemingly trivial?

Nothing that didn't smell fishy, or at least like a third-hand reinterpretation of what was actually said. In conversation, it was mentioned that 'they don't use restraint. If a girl runs, they just follow her. They have very good runners on staff,' and that family therapy is conducted through a videochat function once or twice a week. That's as specific as it got.
As far as the Buddhism angle goes, I think what was actually being referred to was Dialectical Behavior Therapy, which my friend had been receiving from a therapist before being sent off. I met with a practicioner of that variety a couple times myself, and didn't find it helpful. A somewhat New Age, meditative brand of behavioral therapy, a secularized version of Buddhist "Mindfulness" training is the crux of it's philosophy.
My money had been on an InnerChange program, but, again, that's hinging on my interpretation of the weirdness that was coming from her parents, and a lot of it was very weird. Lots of talk about 'emotional dishonesty' and 'negative worlds' and the like.
InnerChange touts the DBT angle pretty heavily on their websites, and I believe at least one of thier programs was using videochat for parent therapy. I'll have to double check that, though.
I'd never heard of CERTS, but from looking at their own info, seems to be pretty much the same thing -- going for the touchy-feely angle, and again, the DBT.
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Ursus on October 28, 2011, 11:42:22 PM
Quote from: "Halflinger"
Quote from: "Ursus"
Ya know, I've been trying to wrack my brain as to what that other program might be, and I'm afraid that no possibilities really jump out at me. Is there any other info you have, however seemingly trivial?
Nothing that didn't smell fishy, or at least like a third-hand reinterpretation of what was actually said. In conversation, it was mentioned that 'they don't use restraint. If a girl runs, they just follow her. They have very good runners on staff,' and that family therapy is conducted through a videochat function once or twice a week. That's as specific as it got.
What might really be helpful is any "cult lingo" that you can recall. E.g., specific wordage and descriptives, phrases used, etc. Although generally all of these programs employ mere variations on a theme of very similar modalities, they each tend to evolve their own specific vernacular which, presumably, sets them apart as being "different" from all the rest.

To some degree, that's just human nature. We all develop our own pet phrases and verbal symbolism whenever we operate in a group that's distinct from the rest of the world, e.g., at our job, when with associates highly versed in a specific specialty, within a long term group of friends, etc. but it can get quite pronounced in programs. And ofttimes, quite program-specific.

Quote from: "Halflinger"
As far as the Buddhism angle goes, I think what was actually being referred to was Dialectical Behavior Therapy, which my friend had been receiving from a therapist before being sent off. I met with a practicioner of that variety a couple times myself, and didn't find it helpful. A somewhat New Age, meditative brand of behavioral therapy, a secularized version of Buddhist "Mindfulness" training is the crux of it's philosophy.
Ah, I see, fair enough. Well, as you mentioned earlier, DBT is quite trendy at the moment, so unfortunately, that aspect doesn't narrow it down too much. I think we can probably rule out some of the more overt "Christian" programs, however! :D

Quote from: "Halflinger"
My money had been on an InnerChange program, but, again, that's hinging on my interpretation of the weirdness that was coming from her parents, and a lot of it was very weird. Lots of talk about 'emotional dishonesty' and 'negative worlds' and the like.
InnerChange touts the DBT angle pretty heavily on their websites, and I believe at least one of thier programs was using videochat for parent therapy. I'll have to double check that, though.
I may be speaking out of turn by saying this, but I have a strong suspicion that InnerChange got a huge boost in credibility with the Mormon program crowd when they managed to get Kimball DeLaMare on board. DeLaMare would, I suspect, be very hip to new psych developments that could increase the caché of whatever program offered them. He even sits on one of JCAHO's assessment boards. IIRC, DBT may not have been even mentioned on their website just 4-5 years ago, back when InnerChange went by the name of Solacium Holdings.

Quote from: "Halflinger"
I'd never heard of CERTS, but from looking at their own info, seems to be pretty much the same thing -- going for the touchy-feely angle, and again, the DBT.
Moonridge Academy and Kolob Canyon are two of their programs. From what I recall, there's a parent manual that can be downloaded from a Moonridge thread (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=30629) here that might give you a better idea. Someone who was there relatively recent saw fit to stress that their website is hopelessly out of date. I had started to read that manual (but didn't finish) and I remember being struck by how newagey it sounded. You might want to check it out to see if something jumps out at ya...
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Halflinger on October 29, 2011, 10:02:46 PM
Link is dead on the Moonridge thread. Ursus, do you still have a copy? PM me for my email, if you do. I did notice, however, on the Moonridge testimonials page, that a parent had mentioned that family therapy was twice a week. That seems pretty out of the ordinary for most programs, and was a detail that stood out from my conversation with my friend's mother. Grasping at  straws, of course.
As for more details, program language, no, unfortunately they (her parents) were playing it pretty close to the vest. I got a not-so-friendly call from the police after the last time I spoke with them, and I very much doubt they'll be seeking me out to volunteer any info. what I've got is what I've got.
Title: Moonridge Academy and Kolob Canyon
Post by: Ursus on October 29, 2011, 10:56:16 PM
Quote from: "Halflinger"
Link is dead on the Moonridge thread. Ursus, do you still have a copy? PM me for my email, if you do. I did notice, however, on the Moonridge testimonials page, that a parent had mentioned that family therapy was twice a week. That seems pretty out of the ordinary for most programs, and was a detail that stood out from my conversation with my friend's mother. Grasping at  straws, of course.
As for more details, program language, no, unfortunately they (her parents) were playing it pretty close to the vest. I got a not-so-friendly call from the police after the last time I spoke with them, and I very much doubt they'll be seeking me out to volunteer any info. what I've got is what I've got.
Yes, I *do* have a copy, but try this first (.doc, so use MWord to open):
Moonridge Parent Manual (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/download/file.php?id=532) (1.28 MB)[/list]
This download is stored on fornits' website, so if the link is n.g., there may be some technical reasons that bear looking into...

Fwiw, Kolob Canyon is supposedly very similar to Moonridge. One of the differentiating criteria is supposedly age, with Moonridge catering more to the younger crowd. This may or may not still be true, if they've changed and their website hasn't been appropriately updated. Some of those statements on Moonridge's testimonials page mention both programs and, in one or two cases, appear to actually be about Kolob Canyon and not Moonridge.
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Halflinger on November 14, 2011, 02:31:18 PM
another satisfied customer of MHYR/AVW... http://2pacsouljah.blogspot.com/2010/03 ... r-rob.html (http://2pacsouljah.blogspot.com/2010/03/ashley-valley-wildernessmhyr-rob.html)

Ashley Valley Wilderness/MHYR: Rob Caldwell, Marty Bingham, Crooks, Liars, TRAVESTY
As I explained before, I was sent to Ashley Valley Wilderness in Colorado/Utah for about 3 months, 89 days in which I had no electricity (or ANY utilities like water gas or even housing), freedom of speech, medical treatment, drug rehabilitation, therapy, or even a PILLOW. We were up in the mountains, making fires with bow-drill sets, and eating rice, lentils, oatmeal, germade, and spam with no vitamins, freedom to choose if we could eat or not, or the ability to even share our experiences involving substances (at a "rehab"?).
Furthermore, I was NOT allowed to speak about
a)politics [i.e. "I think Obama..." "HEY! You can't talk about politics or you FAIL and you're here another week!" (AV Staff)],
b) religion (i.e. "Oh my God!/Oh my Lord!" Staff: "HEY! That's Diety! FAIL FAIL FAIL!")
c) "war stories" (i.e.) "My parents had just got divorced and I did a lot of ____ one night, I neglected my family-"NO WAR STORIES! Try it again you FAIL!
d)anything "wierd" (i.e. ghosts, ufos, samsquatch haha, pokemon, aliens, etc.
as WELL as the inability to swear at all, even with "damn" or threaten failing and staying on the mountain another week.

The Ashley Valley / Mountain Homes Youth Ranch (Youth Program) says Dr. Phil endorsed them in an episode, and has his face on their website. In actuality, they don't even mention the name Ashley Valley or MHYR in the episode, and Dr. Phil probably hasn't even approved of their front/fraudulant bullshit website. DR PHIL YOU COULD BE GETTING A HEFTY HUNK OF CHANGE!

I met Rob Caldwell (owner) and Marty Bingham (Program Director) and both live luxurious lives of fly-fishing, driving over-sized vehicles, lying to thousands of suffering parents of addicted teens/adults, and ROBBING THOUSANDS OF KIDS AGES 12-26 of 3-7 MONTHS OF THEIR LIFE.

I will never get my 89 days of life back. Those bastards broke me down, made fun of my musical preference, my tattoos, my name, and I wasn't even allowed to stand up for myself, or I'd risk staying on a SHIThole mountain for another week. I could NOT leave because I was over 60 miles from any gas station, with no electronics, no money, and no ID (all confiscated at the airport by AV staff).

I need to warn parents and children of this place. I am absolutely forever traumatized by my experiences from this place. Hives, headaches, sleep troubles, frost-bite, diarrhea, vomiting, rashes, anxiety attacks, depression, suicidal thoughts, violent tendencies, and a pessimistic decision-making attitude are all attributed to the fact that I was robbed of my freedoms by these scammers, my family bought into it, and I lived through 3 months of what is worse than Jail- yes, Jail is NICER than AV/MHYR. I know this through tesimonials by my fellow "pupils" and from MY OWN EXPERIENCE.

Rob Caldwell- keep buying a new fully loaded Chevy each year, and puttin down-payments on extra fishing lodges, but I see through you're bullshit you spit to these suffering families.You fuckin bastad ;P

Marty Bingham, by the way Ladies and Gentleman, is a very obese, Okley and expensive cowboy boot/hat-wearin mothafucka who's addicted to money, FOOD, big trucks, and probably pornograph. Fake-ass lying crook.

Anyway, I'm off that mountain, but I pray from my apartment in Portland, every single day for my colleagues who get sent up there to live through such a blasphemy.

I PRAY that this saves at least ONE person from one of the most F'd up experiences a person can endure (the "Therapists" talk to your parents and you have VERY little contact (write monitored letters that take weeks to get delivered to ONLY the parent who paid or bi-weekly MONITORED phone calls with the therapists. Their Bastards
Title: Ashley Valley Wilderness/MHYR: ...Crooks, Liars, TRAVESTY
Post by: Ursus on November 15, 2011, 10:42:30 AM
Date for that blog entry, fwiw:

Saturday, March 27, 2010
Ashley Valley Wilderness/MHYR: Rob Caldwell, Marty Bingham, Crooks, Liars, TRAVESTY (http://http://2pacsouljah.blogspot.com/2010/03/ashley-valley-wildernessmhyr-rob.html)[/list]
Title: Mountain Homes Youth Ranch & Ashley Wilderness
Post by: Ursus on November 15, 2011, 11:20:06 AM
Apparently, there has been some grumbling amongst the locals about how Mountain Homes Youth Ranch does their business. For awhile there (almost a year), MHYR was operating without the required conditional use permits. This has allegedly since been corrected.

However, in my reading of material on the requisite community hearings held earlier this year, I kinda get the impression that MHYR has not been altogether forthright with the locals about what exactly it is that they do, as well as particulars regarding the population of youth they allegedly "treat."

Moreover, there are some vague answers regarding what licenses they hold. Are they licensed as a "school?" Or not? I'm not sure that being licensed as a "residential child care facility," if that is indeed the license they hold, necessarily qualifies MHYR to pass themselves off as a school. But, it's not like I'm any kind of expert in such matters, and that criteria may very well not be important to the residents of this area.

Also, fwiw, in November of 2010, a local resident apparently suffered a break-in by four youths from MHYR who stole a loaded shotgun, and attempted to steal a truck. My guess is they were probably trying to escape...

I have a bunch of material to post pertinent to the above noted conditional use permit hearings which culminated this past June. Feel free to interject with commentary. This material will include, hopefully in the following order:

Title: Public Notice of Application, call for public commentary
Post by: Ursus on November 15, 2011, 01:15:04 PM
Regarding MHYR getting that required conditional use permit, here's the public Notice of Application and call for public commentary:

-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Craig Daily Press
Mountain Homes Youth Ranch (http://http://www.craigdailypress.com/news/2011/apr/22/mountain-homes-youth-ranch/)

April 22, 2011, 12:00 a.m.
Updated: 12:00 a.m.


112757-1

Public Hearing

NOTICE OF APPLICATION
FOR CONDITIONAL USE

Mountain Homes Youth Ranch

NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN THAT Mountain Homes Youth Ranch; applicants have submitted an Application for Conditional Use for Camping and Youth Programs located on private land in T7N to T10N; R99W to R102W of the 6th Principal Meridian, Moffat County, Colorado.

The Moffat County Planning Commission and the Moffat County Commissioners would appreciate any comments that you may have that would help them make a more informed decision. A public hearing will be held before the Moffat County Planning Commission on May 3, 2011 at 6:30 p.m. in the Craig City Council Chambers located at 300 West 4th Street, Craig Colorado.

A public hearing will be held before the Moffat County Commissioners on May 10, 2011 at 11:30 a.m. in the Commissioner's Conference Room located on the main floor, east end of the Moffat County Courthouse, 221 W. Victory Way, Craig, Colorado. The application is available for public inspection in the Planning Department during normal business hours. Conditional Use Permit regulations can be found on-line at http://www.colorado.gov/moffatcounty (http://www.colorado.gov/moffatcounty) under the Planning Department or contact the Planning Department at 970-824-9148.

Published in The Craig Daily Pres

Publication Date: April 22, 2011

10259792

Published in The Craig Daily Pres Publication Date: April 22, 2011


© Copyright 2011 Craig Daily Press.
Title: Notice of Application, announcement of public hearing
Post by: Ursus on November 15, 2011, 11:42:22 PM
I do not have the minutes of the two public hearings mentioned in the above Notice (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=38033&p=408222#p408210) (May 3rd and 10th).

Here's another public notice, this one also announcing an upcoming public hearing on June 7th. This one appears to have been published several times, and was probably archived under the last publication date. The first publication date is noted as May 25, 2011.

-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Craig Daily Press
Mountain Homes Youth Ranch (http://http://www.craigdailypress.com/news/2011/jun/18/mountain-homes-youth-ranch/)

June 18, 2011

112785-3

Public Hearing

NOTICE OF APPLICATION FOR CONDITIONAL USE

Mountain Homes Youth Ranch

NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN THAT Mountain Homes Youth Ranch; applicants have submitted an Application for Conditional Use for Camping and Youth Programs located on private land in T7N to T10N; R99W to R102W of the 6th Principal Meridian, Moffat County, Colorado.

A public hearing will be held before the Moffat County Commissioners on June 7, 2011 at 9:00 a.m. in the Commissioner's Conference Room located on the main floor, east end of the Moffat County Courthouse, 221 W. Victory Way, Craig, Colorado. The application is available for public inspection in the Planning Department during normal business hours. Conditional Use Permit regulations can be found on-line at http://www.colorado.gov/moffatcounty (http://www.colorado.gov/moffatcounty) under the Planning Department or contact the Planning Department at 970-824-9148.

Published in the Craig Daily Press

First Publication: May 25, 2011

Final Publication: May 30, 2011

10263438

Published in the Craig Daily Press First Publication: May 25, 2011


© Copyright 2011 Craig Daily Press.
Title: minutes of public hearing - June 7, 20
Post by: Ursus on November 16, 2011, 11:40:55 AM
The issue of granting Mountain Homes Youth Ranch a conditional use permit was apparently discussed in at least two previous public hearings held before the Moffat County Commissioners. Despite the call for public commentary (posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=38033&p=408204#p408210) above), it is unclear (to me, at least) just how much community feedback was effectively involved in the earlier ones.

A public hearing which did involve community participation took place on June 7th, 2011. By which time, I should note, the BOCC appears to have already pretty much made up their minds. Here are the minutes (http://http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobheadername1=Content-Disposition&blobheadername2=Content-Type&blobheadervalue1=inline%3B+filename%3D%22BOCCMins2011_06_07.pdf%22&blobheadervalue2=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1251723518333&ssbinary=true):

-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Moffat County Board of County Commissioners
221 W Victory Way Suite 130 Craig, CO 81625

June 7, 2011[/list]

In attendance: Thomas J. Mathers, Chairman; Tom Gray, Vice Chair; Stephanie Beckett, Deputy Clerk, Dee Allerd, Samuel Sheridan.

Audrey Danner, Board Member absent.

Call to Order
Pledge/Moment of Silence
Consent Agenda
[/list]

Gray made a motion to approve the consent agenda consisting of items:

Mathers seconded the motion. Motion carried 2-0. See attachments.

Mike Fuller (KRAI), Ben McCanna (newspaper), Phyllis Barainca, Joanne Miller, Lynda Watt, John Watt, Mara Molloy, Robert Molloy, Gina Robinson  (BLM), Shane Dittlinger (BLM), John Vaughan, Lois Vaughan, Dawn Nottingham, Margaret Gluesing, Roy Marceca, Iva Decker, Marty Bingham (MHYC), Landen Norris (MHYC), Kim Nachtmaw, Dennis Bugay, Lex and Goldie Burton present.

Planning & Zoning Department – Jerry Hoberg[/list]
Hoberg reviews for approval the Mountain Home Youth Ranch Conditional Use Permit. A letter and photos from The Brown's Park Land Use Board and Robert J. Molloy Jr. is attached with concerns. Hoberg gives a general overview of this conditional use permit.

Community members and the Planning Board held two meetings and the Planning & Zoning committee approved the permit with some stipulations added. Hoberg is here to present the final decision the Planning & Zoning Board has made.

John Watt asks if the County has received a legal description for the Conditional Use Permit. Hoberg is using the legal description for each property owner that the camp has a lease with.

Jeremy Snow addresses the legalities of this process. The BOCC is only determining the criteria that is set forth in the Moffat County Planning and Zoning laws. The decision today is based on C.R.S. 30-28-111. In Snows legal opinion first the BOCC needs to determine if MHYR is or is not a school. This is the first stipulation for a conditional use permit on agricultural land. If this determination is that they are a school, then the BOCC will need to find if there is an adverse affect to the permit. The approved application shall list those conditions and requirements determined to be necessary to protect the health, safety and welfare of the inhabitants of the area and the County. There are nine effects to consider:


Snow advises that the BOCC goes through the nine criteria's and determine if there is any adverse impact. If they determine any criteria to have an adverse impact then they can see if there is a solution.

Snow indicates that the BOCC has to take the feedback from the group before the decision is made.

Gray and Mathers indicates that this is considered a "school". Anytime you are trying to teach somebody something even if it is behavioral then it is a school.

John Watt indicates that he can not find that this company is licensed as a school. Marty Bingham indicates they do have licensed teachers at the school and issue a transcript credited through national schools. Bingham will provide the license to Watt.

Rick Barnes present.

Reviewing the nine stipulations with community feedback:

Snow clarifies that the zoning regulations is not going to impact a citizen. The issues that citizens have are civil and does not have anything to do with this zoning permit.

Landen Norris is working on the wildlife impact and indicates they have reclaimed areas in the past.

Samuel Sheridan home was broken into and he indicated that he was never told about the camp. Sheridan sees the good side of these camps, but this is dangerous to the residents. The communication was not sufficient in the past year.

Dee Allred asks what criminal background do the kids they take at the camp have. Landen Norris answers that they do not take any kids that have any criminal background. The kids that they teach normally get in trouble for vandalizing, and drugs, and alcohol use.

Mathers closes the notice for taking information and input from community members. Molloy interrupts and would like to request that the BOCC put more conditions on the permit that could later be taken off. Watt would like to add one more comment; he would like to remind them to take the health, safety, and welfare into the decision, also the maximum buffer area.

Watt read from the state inspection and asks who authorized the camp to continue operations until final approval. Landen Norris answers that Jerry Hoberg granted this.

The BOCC will postpone the decision until next week.

Announce appointment to Planning & Zoning Board alternate seat[/list]
The BOCC received one letter of interest from Rick Barnes to fill the alternate position for the Planning Commission Board.

Gray made a motion to appoint Rick Barnes as the alternate for the Planning & Zoning Commission. Mathers seconded the motion. Motion carried 2-0.

Meeting Adjourned[/list]

Submitted by: Stephanie Beckett, Deputy Clerk

Approved by:
________________________________________________

________________________________________________

________________________________________________
Approved on:
________________________________________________
Attest by:
________________________________________________
Title: Moffat County Commission considers permit for MHYR
Post by: Ursus on November 16, 2011, 12:04:02 PM
So... here's that first article, which summarizes the above public hearing (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=38033&p=408227#p408227) and also gives a lil more background:

-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Craig Daily Press
Moffat County Commission considers permit for Mountain Home Youth Ranch (http://http://www.craigdailypress.com/news/2011/jun/07/moffat-county-commission-considers-permit-mountain/)

By Ben McCanna
June 7, 2011, 2:49 p.m.
Updated: June 8, 2011, 12:00 a.m.


The Moffat County Commission hosted a public hearing Tuesday to review a conditional use permit application by Mountain Home Youth Ranch.

The ranch, which has operated without a permit in Greystone for 11 months, "is a therapeutic growth program for troubled teens (co-ed ages 12 to 17)," according to the group's website.

The ranch group, based in Vernal, Utah, plans to serve 100 to 120 teens per year.

The commission did not make a decision on the application Tuesday. Commissioner Tom Mathers said a decision would be announced at next week's commission meeting.

The program came under scrutiny from local residents after an incident in November 2010 in which four juvenile males from the ranch allegedly broke into a home owned by Monty Sheridan, and stole a loaded shotgun before attempting to steal a truck.

More than 25 area residents attended Tuesday's commission meeting. There were voices of opposition and support for the ranch at the meeting.

Moffat County Planner Jerry Hoberg began the meeting with a brief history of Mountain Home Youth Ranch's presence in the county.

The group originally approached Hoberg for a conditional use permit for a property the group purchased in the Skull Creek area. That permit was granted.

However, Hoberg learned in January that the group moved its operation to property leased in Greystone. Hoberg asked the group to apply for a new conditional use permit to reflect the new location.

In the meantime, the ranch was allowed to continue doing business, which is customary, Hoberg said.

"In the past, when we have discovered people that need a conditional use permit ... they are approached," Hoberg said. “I tell them, 'You need to apply for a conditional use permit,' and they go through the process. But, we don't shut them down."

On April 5, the county planning commission discussed a conditional use permit for the ranch group, but the matter was tabled to allow time for more discussion.

Then, on May 3, the planning commission approved the permit. However, the county commission needed to provide 15 days of public notice before voting on it.

With the background established, Moffat County Attorney Jeremy Snow addressed the commissioners and described their legal duties in the matter.

Snow said the commissioners would be required by law to grant the conditional use permit if ranch officials could provide evidence that the ranch was a licensed school, and if it satisfied nine criteria set forth in the Moffat County Zoning Resolution and Subdivision Regulation Manual.

Ranch counselor Landen Norris said the company is fully licensed in Colorado as a residential childcare facility.

With that requirement satisfied, the commission next considered the nine criteria, and whether the ranch creates a significant adverse effect on those criteria.

And if so, whether those adverse impacts could be reasonably mitigated through specific conditions, restrictions or requirements.

The criteria are:

• Compatibility with existing uses in the area.

• Physical separation from similar or dissimilar uses on the same property.

• Impact on traffic volume and safety.

• Impact on utilities and sanitary facilities.

• Impact on the established character of the neighborhood or the zone district.

• Conformance with the property development standards of the district.

• Production of any offensive noise, vibration, smoke, dust, odors, heat, glare or unsightly aspects at or beyond the property line.

• Interference with airport approach zones.

• Scarring of the land and soil, which would leave denuded slopes, soil piles, holes or pits, or ruined areas of natural beauty.

The commissioners worked down the list and asked residents to share examples of how the ranch may impact the criteria.

Beginning with the first criterion, Greystone resident John Watt said he is opposed to the youth ranch.

"I don't believe they're compatible with the area at all," he said. "I have some real serious issues with this."

Watt said the Browns Park area is pristine and hasn't changed much in 125 years. The area is used primarily for ranching sheep and cattle, he said.

"These ranchers want you to give them a permit so they can herd human beings because that's what this comes down to," Watt said.

Greystone resident Robert Molloy said the area is known for traditional uses, and the youth range doesn't fit within those traditions.

"This is something that's being brought into the community," he said. "This is totally different from anything that's ever existed there before, or has existed anywhere in Moffat County."

Norris said the youth ranch is compatible.

"There's a lot of hunting and camping that goes on in that area, and a big part of our program is camping and detaching those kids' survival skills," he said. "It's a good area to do it in because there are a lot of camping spots."

Watt added another comment regarding the compatibility issue.

"The other reason they're not compatible is they bring an additional threat to our community," he said.

Watt's wife, Lynda Watt, read from a written statement.

"The fear of living on our own ranch started almost a year ago for me when Monty Sheridan's home was burglarized by escapees from one of these detention camps," she said. "The fact they stole loaded firearms is a clear indication of their intent to harm anyone in their way."

She said her husband was asked by a neighbor to check her house to make sure that no one from the youth ranch was hiding inside.

"At that time, it became very obvious that this Utah-based corporation had brought domestic terrorism to our community," she said.

Lynda said the ranch threatens her Constitutional rights to safety and happiness.

Regarding the second criterion — physical separation from similar or dissimilar uses — Mathers said a buffer zone between the youth ranch and adjacent properties could mitigate any adverse impacts.

Norris said the ranch could accommodate a three-mile buffer zone.

Regarding traffic volume and safety, many residents felt the county roads have been impacted by the presence of the youth camp. Residents cited deep ruts and dust as adverse impacts.

Mathers said a $200 surcharge per youth could help the county maintain the roads and thus mitigate the impact.

Regarding the ranch's impact on utilities and sanitary facilities, Norris said the impact was nominal.

Mathers said sanitary issues involving camping are governed by the state, and the ranch's trenches and pit toilets are in compliance with state laws.

Regarding impact to the established character of the area, several residents expressed concern that the ranch's presence has sparked such fierce debate that the community has been impacted.

"Ever since these people came to our community, it has put division within our community," Watt said. "We have lost that harmony.

"Neighbors have turned on neighbors."

Greystone resident Dawn Nottingham said her 86-year-old mother decided to lease land to the youth ranch in an effort to preserve a way of life.

"We're trying to hang on to our custom and culture," she said. "She gets $500 a month, that's all she gets out of retirement."

The money from the youth ranch helps, she said.

"It doesn't run our ranch. It doesn't even pay our ... gas bill," she said. "But, we still are trying to hang on to our custom and culture."

Mathers said affirming or denying the conditional use permit, at this point, would not restore harmony.

Watt asked why residents of Browns Park should be burdened with children whose parents neglected them.

Nottingham responded.

"Why not?"

"Because I live there, and I don't want the threat against my wife, myself or my property," Watt said.

"What about the kids?" Nottingham said.

"To hell with the kids," Watt said.

Commissioner Tom Gray said he appreciated residents' concerns, but ultimately the commission is bound by law.

"Legally, we aren't able to just say no," he said. "Many of you just don't want it. We don't have that luxury."


© Copyright 2011 Craig Daily Press.
Title: Comments: "Moffat County Commission considers permit for MHY
Post by: Ursus on November 16, 2011, 12:17:39 PM
Comments (http://http://www.craigdailypress.com/news/2011/jun/07/moffat-county-commission-considers-permit-mountain/) left for the above article, "Moffat County Commission considers permit for Mountain Home Youth Ranch (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=38033&p=408230#p408230)" (by Ben McCanna; June 7, 2011; Craig Daily Press):


3canines (Anonymous) says... 8 June 2011 at 9:52 a.m.
kp81625 (Anonymous) says... 8 June 2011 at 12:21 p.m.
cag81625 (Anonymous) says... 8 June 2011 at 12:40 p.m.
wellwell (Anonymous) says... 8 June 2011 at 4:30 p.m.


© Copyright 2011 Craig Daily Press.
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Halflinger on November 16, 2011, 02:25:20 PM
That doesn't sound too neighborly. Disturbing to hear about the runaways stealing the firearm and vehicle, on a couple levels. A bad situation for all involved, including the locals.
What I'm wondering now is, how many properties do they use, and where are they? MHYR/AVW give a couple of different answers to that, Northwest Colorado, Southeast Colorado, and Utah, depending in part on seasonality. is the Adult program (which does take court diversions, I believe) operated on the same property used for minors?

I've seen similar situations arise in my own community, where zoning meetings become one of the few options for public commentary on complicated and unpopular issues. Unfortunately, they really aren't effective forums for the kind of underlying problems that get dragged into them... just the only forums.
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Ursus on November 18, 2011, 10:48:43 AM
Quote from: "Halflinger"
What I'm wondering now is, how many properties do they use, and where are they? MHYR/AVW give a couple of different answers to that, Northwest Colorado, Southeast Colorado, and Utah, depending in part on seasonality.
I believe that MHYR/AVW uses their own property as well as leases land from a number of the local residents; how many, I do not have a clue.

Personally, I kinda suspect that the following comment (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=38033&p=408319#p408231) (left for the above article (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=38033&p=408318#p408230)) may have been made by MHYR/AVW folk. Someone who was truly local would probably know whether the Watts had children or not.

Whether made by MHYR/AVW or not, it certainly seems to illustrate their attitude towards resolving the controversial issues at hand. Those who cooperate will "profit from this venture," and those who don't are tagged as "whiners and complainers." Incidentally, these are pretty much the exact same descriptions the kids get tagged with vis a vis their response to being in a program:

kp81625 (Anonymous) says... 8 June 2011 at 12:21 p.m.
[/color][/list]
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Ursus on November 18, 2011, 10:57:17 AM
Quote from: "Halflinger"
is the Adult program (which does take court diversions, I believe) operated on the same property used for minors?
Good question. This may well prove to be a contentious issue for the locals as time goes on. Or not.
Title: Do you think MHYR should be permitted to operate...
Post by: Ursus on November 29, 2011, 06:55:17 PM
Here are those afore promised "poll" results. This local newspaper seems to run quite a lot of these polls, usually concerning somewhat fluffier topics...

One thing is for sure, however: they *do* know, at this point, that this is a "troubled teen program" and not just mere camping expeditions of some sort.

-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Craig Daily Press
June 12, 2011

Do you think Mountain Home Youth Ranch should be permitted to operate its troubled teen program in western Moffat County? (http://http://www.craigdailypress.com/polls/2011/jun/do-you-think-mountain-youth-home-ranch-should-be-p/)

Yes · 64% · 192
No · 31% · 94
Undecided · 4% · 12

Total · 298[/list]


© Copyright 2011 Craig Daily Press.
Title: Comments: "Do you think Mountain Home Youth Ranch should be.
Post by: Ursus on November 29, 2011, 08:48:16 PM
Comment (http://http://www.craigdailypress.com/polls/2011/jun/do-you-think-mountain-youth-home-ranch-should-be-p/) left for the above poll, "Do you think Mountain Home Youth Ranch should be permitted to operate its troubled teen program in western Moffat County? (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=38033&p=408968#p408968)" (June 12, 2011; Craig Daily Press):


obamablows (Anonymous) says... 16 June 2011 at 3:31 p.m.


© Copyright 2011 Craig Daily Press.
Title: Moffat County Commission approves youth camp permit
Post by: Ursus on December 16, 2011, 12:15:11 AM
And... here's the followup article, which summarizes and discusses the Moffat County Commission's final decision:

-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Craig Daily Press
Moffat County Commission approves youth camp permit (http://http://www.craigdailypress.com/news/2011/jun/14/moffat-county-commission-approves-youth-camp-permi/)

Approval for Browns Park camp comes with stipulations

By Ben McCanna
June 14, 2011, 3:40 p.m.
Updated: June 15, 2011, 12:00 a.m.


The Moffat County Commission approved, 2-0, a conditional use permit Tuesday for Mountain Homes Youth Ranch to operate in Browns Park.

The vote comes a week after the commission hosted a public hearing on the matter. More than 20 community members attended the public hearing to speak in support and opposition of the Utah-based outdoor program for troubled teens.

Commissioner Audrey Danner did not vote on the issue.

"I was not here last week due to my attendance at another meeting, so I think it's appropriate that I recuse myself," she said.

She participated in the discussion.

The discussion began with commissioners Tom Gray and Tom Mathers determining that Mountain Home Youth Ranch is a licensed residential child care facility, and an acceptable business within an area zoned for agriculture.

Next, the commissioners focused on nine criteria from the Moffat County Zoning Resolution and Subdivision Regulation Manual. To obtain a conditional use permit, a business must not adversely impact those criteria, or be willing to mitigate impacts by following commission-issued stipulations.

At least week's hearing, community members weighed in on the ranch's impact. At Tuesday's meeting, the commission ruled on the criteria.

First, the commission determined the ranch was compatible with Browns Park.

"I really think it's compatible because the area is used for camping, hunting," Mathers said. "This is basically a wilderness survival class. I feel like it's a good place for this."

Next, the commissioners decided the youth ranch would need to adhere to a buffer zone to comply with separation from dissimilar uses.

Regarding traffic volume, the commission agreed the ranch does have an impact. That impact, they said, could be mitigated through fees paid to the county.

Next, the commission said any impact on the area's established character could be mitigated by the buffer zone.

Regarding offensive noise, vibration, smoke, dust, odors, heat, glare or unsightly aspects, the commission cited dust as an impact. In last week's meeting, several community members mentioned dust from the ranch's vehicles.

The commission said money from fees could pay for the county to treat area roads with magnesium water, which reduces dust.

The commission agreed some criteria was irrelevant to the ranch, such as utilities and sanitary facilities, conformance with property development standards, and scarring of the land.

After evaluating the criteria, the commission offered nine stipulations for the ranch's conditional use permit:

• No one older than age 18 shall attend the program.

• The ranch shall not erect camps within three miles of a residence, and campers may not conduct activities more than one mile from their camp location.

• The ranch will not have an enrollment of more than 40 youths per session.

• The ranch will pay Moffat County a $200 surcharge for each youth to mitigate increased traffic on county roads.

• The ranch will pay for any road damage.

• The ranch will notify the Moffat County Sheriff's Office and area residents with locations of each campsite.

• The ranch will notify the Moffat County Sheriff's Office and area residents of any runaway youths and provide updates when runaways are found.

• The ranch will comply with all state regulations.

• The ranch will maintain fire insurance of at least $1 million, and abide by all local fire restrictions.

Then, the commissioners moved to approve the permit.

Mathers acknowledged that not everyone would be pleased by the vote.

"I'm going to vote for this," he said. "We tried through this whole process — because some people absolutely did not want this in their area and private property rights on both sides were being affected — so, we tried through this mitigation to try to make it to where everybody got maybe a little bit of what they wanted."

After the vote, Greystone resident John Watt addressed the commission.

"Gentlemen, I can't help but think you've brought a clear and present danger into our community by your decision today," he said.

Watt cited an incident in November 2010 in which four juvenile males from the ranch allegedly broke into a home owned by Monty Sheridan.

"Does the Monty Sheridan incident mean so little that we don't worry about this happening again in our community," Watt asked.

Mathers responded.

"In other words, the one bad apple syndrome should take effect here?" he said.

Watt disagreed with the commissioner's logic.

"You're allowing more bad apples to continually come through the county. That's my concern," he said.

Gray said he and Mathers both recognized the added risk.

"That's why we added the stipulations," he said.

Watt said the commission's stipulations aren't enough.

"I hope we don't come to a point someday in the future where we've regretted your decision today," he said.

Gray said Greystone residents ultimately played a role in shaping the conditional use permit.

"I just want to say to you guys, you had an impact," he said.


© Copyright 2011 Craig Daily Press.
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Halflinger on December 16, 2011, 07:04:50 PM
What agency in Colorado has licensing authority over these places, dept. of health, education? the place sort-of-isn't a school, apparently, and where does that leave it?
Here's hoping the local gov't, at least, is on guard about this place. Even if everything is above board and by the book, I'm afraid I agree with Mr. Watt.
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: xii.anon on January 22, 2012, 01:42:26 AM
Former employee at Mountain Home/Ashley Valley happy to answer any questions you may have. prefer to remain anonymous.
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Ursus on January 22, 2012, 02:09:57 AM
Quote from: "xii.anon"
Former employee at Mountain Home/Ashley Valley happy to answer any questions you may have. prefer to remain anonymous.
Okay, I'll bite... For starters:


Thanks in advance ... for your input and insight!
Title: <-->
Post by: minions of elan on January 22, 2012, 02:22:05 AM
<-->
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: xii.anon on January 22, 2012, 02:40:19 AM
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "xii.anon"
Former employee at Mountain Home/Ashley Valley happy to answer any questions you may have. prefer to remain anonymous.
Okay, I'll bite... For starters:

  • Do you know what program backgrounds the founders of MHYR/Ashley Valley Wilderness have?
  • What other programs do they seem to have a professional relationship with?
  • How similar, from both a philosophical and operational standpoint, are Mountain Home Youth Ranch and Ashley Valley Wilderness?
  • Do MHYR and AVW make use of the same terrain/property acreage, or is the use assigned accordingly ... as per stipulations of the conditional use permits?
  • Are the local folk aware of the fact that these people have an age-over-18 program, namely, Ashley Valley Wilderness?
  • Why are you a former employee, as opposed to a current employee, of MHYR/AVW?

Thanks in advance ... for your input and insight!

Marty Bingham Started the program after working briefly at a wilderness program in the area that was on its way out (as in closing). Rob Cauldwell also worked there, Rob originally didn't take an offer to partner up but later did after Marty did the leg work.  Marty owned a lumber company before Ashley Valley

Just the two programs they work with a few "Educational Advisers" who arrange transitional programs for those whose needs aren't met at Ashley Valley but there is no preference to any particular one

As to your third question, near identical with more privileges on the adult side eg: headlamps, fishing trip

Property is complicated they have many resources for property not just those in Craig that is a very small percentage of the property used

The local folk aren't your normal type, if you mean where the camps are most are there to be alone, so its hard to say those in town certainly are aware of both programs.  About 90% of the time the youth and adult camps are at least 60 miles apart so your talking about two different communities
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Ursus on January 22, 2012, 02:58:49 PM
Quote from: "xii.anon"
Marty Bingham Started the program after working briefly at a wilderness program in the area that was on its way out (as in closing). Rob Cauldwell also worked there, Rob originally didn't take an offer to partner up but later did after Marty did the leg work.  Marty owned a lumber company before Ashley Valley
Do you remember what the name of this program was?

Quote from: "xii.anon"
Property is complicated they have many resources for property not just those in Craig that is a very small percentage of the property used
Do they have differing agreements re. the usage of all these properties?

Quote from: "xii.anon"
The local folk aren't your normal type, if you mean where the camps are most are there to be alone, so its hard to say those in town certainly are aware of both programs.  About 90% of the time the youth and adult camps are at least 60 miles apart so your talking about two different communities
If those in town are aware of both programs, and presumably also that Ashley Wilderness is a young adult program, can you tell me why above reportage (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=38033&p=412009#p409778) of a particular and apparently controversial conditional use permit ... expressly noted the Moffat County Commission's stipulation that "No one older than age 18 shall attend the program?"
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: xii.anon on January 22, 2012, 05:10:14 PM
I don't remember the name of the other program it was about a decade ago.  Moffat county is only used for the youth camps no adults at the time when we started using Moffat county we had to evacuate another area I that may have been the only time we had the adults near those camps and it was only for a few days.   Ashley Valley has many different arrangements for property use and arrangements differ from site to site depend on what licenses and permits are needed, who owns the property ect.  As to the "No one older than age 18 shall attend the program" that was particular to Moffat only I don't understand why since, in general, adult programs run much less risk of incident.
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Halflinger on January 22, 2012, 11:32:09 PM
Hi xii. I'd like to ask about your experience, I suppose, but feel free not to answer anything too specific to yourself. What was the philosophy of the place? What would a typical day for a student, or an employee, entail? How did you become employed there, and why are you no longer?  Do you have experience in other programs, or other social service providers, that you could contrast it with?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: xii.anon on January 23, 2012, 03:05:02 AM
Sorry I will have to be vague I don't care to have myself identified by my former employer as I was well known and stile have contact with the owners, so I will skip over the first part of your question and give you a staffs perspective, in particular a head staff.  Before the beginning of your 8 day shift you arrive at the office as a head staff you first meet with the directors alone and two directors.  In this meeting they let you know who your support staff are and address all issues that have arose during your off shift you also go over any issues they have with your performance that have come up during this time being with the students there is always something since there always a way to improve there is always something to talk about.  It feels like reprimand at first but after a while you come to understand you can always improve.  They address you in the same manner you are expected to problem solve with students, "What is wrong with this situation?" "How are you supposed to handle this?" also use same therapeutic model that is expected to be used in camp "I can see where your coming from with that but can you see how that is not in line with what we are trying to accomplish here?"

After that you go to a general meeting with the entire shift, the directors, therapist, teachers and treatment team where we address any company wide issues, improvements, policy changes, and so on.  Then you meet with your team and each therapist individually and go over the treatment plan for each individual student.  This includes addressing points of concern such as run threats or conspiracy.  If you have good status and report with the company you will aid in any modifications to treatment plan to suit your staffs capabilities and strengths to meet the student goals.  After that the therapist will sometimes pull you aside to address any issues to be wary of concerning staff usually a sign that staff may not be with the company much longer.

After that you gather supplies and head to the mountain (your assign camp).  Upon arriving support staff unload supplies and head to camp and there is an exchange with the opposite head staff to fill in any additional details of the goings on and most recent developments.  Then you exchange keys go into camp and address students and staff as a group you assign students to their individual staff and gather supplies, distribute food and educational materials.

Day to Day

A staff is assigned to go out before wake up start a fire put a pot on for breakfast and then call 8 minutes, the students then have 8 minutes to roll up there gear and stuff their packs.  When everyone arrives at the fire circle hygiene is done  (wet wipe bath around fire: feet, hands, neck and face) Then we retrieve bear bags and make breakfast we then brush teeth.  After that the rest of the day is spent maintaining camp, and working with individually.  Student are responsible to finish all required work to complete week on their own.  Staff keeps track of points (students must earn a certain amount of points throughout day to pass a day), works on individual treatment plans (expectations are different for every student), and keeps schedule.  Staff will meet once during the day to make sure everything is on track most often, this is done after a phone call is made via Sat-phone to the office and updates are given,  if possible the head staff will wait until this moment to reprimand support staff and make adjustments.  After dinner there is group this is the only time  which starts with questions, comments or concerns, this is a safe time where students and staff alike talk about changes they want or things the like.  After that there is a group exercise this is the only time, other than individual therapy, that students may talk about drugs or drug related behaviors. Then to bed.

What else...students have therapy once a week the therapist comes up and head staff will meet with the therapist to give an update the therapist has also received the updates throughout the week, after individual therapy head staff again meets with therapist to update treatment plans.

When the week is over we go down to the office and debrief, again head staff meets with the director and we go over week at this meeting we focus on staff performance then head staff is told how their performance could be better and how to address support staff.  Head staff is given a stack of check meets with team again and, if necessary individual staff, hands out checks and we go home for 6 days.

Couple notes this is how I ran my group and not all groups are the same but due to my lengthy experience this is pretty close to how they should be also I was head staff in an adult group but again others should be the same
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Halflinger on January 23, 2012, 04:11:25 PM
Thanks for the informative reply. That's clarified a couple of questions I had, but brings up some others.

Quote
This includes addressing points of concern such as run threats or conspiracy.

How common was it for a student to run, or attempt to run? What would constitute a run threat, in the opinion of the treatment team? and what is meant by conspiracy?

Quote
Student are responsible to finish all required work to complete week on their own. Staff keeps track of points (students must earn a certain amount of points throughout day to pass a day)
What activities/assignments/behaviors earn points? Can points be lost? How many points are needed to pass a day, and how often would a typical student fail to pass? What are the consequences of not completing a week or passing a day?  

Quote
After dinner there is group this is the only time which starts with questions, comments or concerns, this is a safe time where students and staff alike talk about changes they want or things the like. After that there is a group exercise this is the only time, other than individual therapy, that students may talk about drugs or drug related behaviors.
What could a student expect if they brought up an issue or concern outside of these "safe" times? Are safety/health related concerns (i.e. equipment, skills, injury, nutrition) exempt from this?  What is the rationale behind the prohibition on discussion of the issue that is being treated outside of allotted times?
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: xii.anon on January 25, 2012, 02:09:47 AM
Runs weren't to common unless, which brings me two the second part of your question, students were conspiring or there was a lot of talk about runs.  Students and staff alike were not allowed to talk about run  incidents, distances to highway, ect. as it may perpetuate a negative thought.

Point were earned by doing everything required to do throughout the day from waking up, participating in camp maintenance, hygiene, group participation, ect..
- 525 point are earned throughout the day
- During the first 6 weeks you pass 450 points were requires to pass a day, and you may fail one day.
- After passing 6 weeks students move on to ranch phase which means more responsibilities and require 475 points to pass a day
- points can be lost for any rules not followed, and disrespecting other student and staff.
- Average student fails 2-3 weeks (in adult camps), some never pass, but that's rare
- Failing a week means a repeated week, if you fail early in the week there is nothing really to hold you accountable until the next week

Regarding talking drugs or drug related behaviors, health and treatment options were OK to talk about anytime however story's about drugs and talking about positive things about drugs were not allowed.  This is because, mind you I'm only answering questions not debating efficacy, this particular model is designed to be stressful in the work is as hard as maybe a survival model, or adventure therapy model.  You are out of your comfort zone, your out of your expertise, basically in over your head your are often going to turn to what ever coping mechanism you have developed.  If that is drugs that is something we want to change.  Studies have shown that brain activity in the brain of an addict changes before the drug is consumed the things that cause this are called trigger mechanisms; looking at a needle, looking at a pipe, or even talking about drugs.  So when your in the wilderness drugs aren't available all you got left is to talk about it.  Sooo the idea is to replace the old trigger with something positive and therapeutic.  Unless you are in a guided exercise or in a therapeutic session.
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Halflinger on January 26, 2012, 11:43:23 PM
Thanks again, xii.anon. I'd be grateful to hear your personal opinion on the efficacy of the program. How would you respond to the opinion of the two former students, linked to earlier in this thread?  

Quote
issues to be wary of concerning staff usually a sign that staff may not be with the company much longer.
What sort of issues? Was there a high turnover rate for staff?

Apart from drug issues, MHYR/AVW represents itself as capable of effectively treating a very wide range of other issues, clinical and behavioral.  I, personally, don't quite see how something like depression or a learning disorder would be best served through a system that is intentionally stressful, or a milieu designed with substance abuse in mind. How were these, as isolated or co-occurring issues, dealt with?
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: xii.anon on January 27, 2012, 01:57:53 AM
Any job where you spent more that half of your life without a phone and under the amount of stress that comes with will have high turnover.  Moreover if your performance was not up to standards you would be let go pretty quick this includes behavior off the mountain.

As to the review by Alex I remember him, I think the biggest issue there is there is a gap between marketing and what goes on in camp.  A lot of my former students have been really successful and a lot of good work is done there.  But when the company is marketing an adventure model when much of that has been stripped away over the years and been steered more to the therapy model I can understand why some people don't agree with the program.  I think coming into a situation like this with the wrong expectations will lead to disappointment.  Its not fun its repetitive, as repetition is common with most any therapeutic model.  I really think when somebody enters the program with no expectation other than its going to be hard but they need to change and want to, its a great program.  As to the question that I've been avoiding of why I left it because of the marketing I went from having great productive supportive groups to having groups that have half the students not wanting to change and not wanting anyone else to either.  I think that's what brings allot of these places down, the selection process for these camps is supposed to build a team of students who can build each other up, we used to turn down many applicants, but then we were taking anybody for a while and it made it impossible to manage.  Since I have left the have returned to the old model and hear things are back to like they were.  I will say the group Alex was with was one of the better ones we had a staff that was running the group when he got there who was one of those we had to let go not that she was doing any of the terrible things that I've read about here but, she was just in-congruent with the goals of the program and didn't build the most supportive and therapeutic environment.
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Halflinger on January 29, 2012, 11:31:34 PM
Quote
Any job where you spent more that half of your life without a phone and under the amount of stress that comes with will have high turnover. Moreover if your performance was not up to standards you would be let go pretty quick this includes behavior off the mountain.
I can see how stress is an issue, and I can certainly understand the necessity to keep a close reign on the staff.  

But on the other hand, and I don't intend this derisively, it seems as though there's a bit of a discrepancy in your logic...
Quote
I really think when somebody enters the program with no expectation other than its going to be hard but they need to change and want to, its a great program.
An employee that performs poorly in this environment can be attributed to stress, but a student that performs poorly in the same environment has an attitude problem? That's certainly an oversimplification on my part, but at first glance, that's how it reads to me. To clarify my position, I'd hazard a guess that the basic situation of staff and student is more similar than it is different, under the wilderness conditions. So why is there a difference in explanation of cause (environment vs. disposition) and a correlating difference in remedial action (removal from the wilderness vs. extending the stay in the wilderness)?

Not that a double standard isn't to some degree advisable and necessary, as staff and students are there for wholly different reasons. There are plenty of folks on this forum that could tell you the results that follow from taking the equality of staff and students to the unfortunate extremes of turning students into staff, or hiring ex-felons and ex-addicts to counsel kids with problems that are nowhere near approaching that level.  But that doesn't mean turning a blind eye to the possible negative effects of the wilderness experience, in and of itself, regardless of any preexisting issues.
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: xii.anon on January 30, 2012, 03:26:12 AM
I will first mention I'm not here to debate just trying to inform.  If it appears there was judgment in my comment I apologize.  The only point I was trying to make before is there is an apparent gap between what is marketed and what is sold.  My comment about the students was not a measure of other students attitudes but relating, in my experience, what gives the best chance of success.  I think if the students coming in were made more aware of the reality of the program rather than being marketed an adventure product they would feel less cheated (and rightly so) and more committed going in, if the still chose to enroll.
I don't think comparing the stress level of students to staff is a fair comparison.  One person is in treatment, while the staff is needs to be vigilant about safety concerns 24 hrs a day.  Some staff just weren't willing to perform at the level needed.  You expect the staff arrive with the ability to perform.  The course is 15 weeks long, I did several years of 8 on 6 off, each scenario has its own responsibilities and expectations.  I think we are comparing apples and oranges.
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Halflinger on January 30, 2012, 03:41:44 PM
I appreciate that you're taking the time to answer these questions, and I'm not out to grind any axes against you, or any other staff. No apology needed, and I applaud the fact that you left the place when things were going downhill. I don't want to give the impression that I'm trying to debate, but I do believe that the Ideology of a program of this sort is just as important as the methodology. It isn't a personal thing, but the more I know about the sort of mindset that staff at all levels are encouraged to bring in, the better.

As to your comments on marketing concerns, they are disconcerting to hear, and I'm sure difficult to work with. Why, then, didn't the marketing and reality of the program line up? Were they knowingly selling an inappropriate service to customers that would not benefit from it? What prevented them from offering the program as advertised? On viewing the marketing materials posted earlier and the website, the actualities of the program as presented are left quite vague and, I assume, not by accident. Would this be leaving room for the description of the program to conform to a potential customer, or providing room for the program-in-fact to be modified to suit the needs of the client? I'd guess the former, but hope for the latter. How much leeway is given to staff in the field or the treatment team to modify the program, or an individual's treatment plan after it has been established?
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: xii.anon on January 31, 2012, 02:31:16 AM
The treatment plans are unique for each individual the individual therapist goes over a treatment plan at the beginning of the week and the head staff can make minor changes in the field when the therapist visits mid-week the treatment plan is reviewed as to its effectiveness and the therapist is updated on each student.  There are several therapist who conference after each debriefing period along with the resident teachers and other members of the treatment team.  There is a sat phone available for any updates deemed pertinent by the head staff for immediate  consult as well as three call-ins per day for status updates and welfare checks.  The packets required to be completed are the same for every student and only occasionally modified for the individual.  General camp chores and upkeep are part of everyone's respectability.  The individual treatment  plans consist of specific ways to respond to a student, specific things that should be addresses in essay sections of packet, a set of weekly, daily and long term goals and coaching techniques to be used on one on one basis with students.  There's much more but as unique as each case is its impossible for me to outline the full breadth of an individual treatment plan.

As far as the marketing goes I was not involved directly with that so I can't speak as to how the process goes.  What I do know is that often times the students coming in had expectations that were different from what was reality.  What from students were saying was there was lot of talk about element such as the fishing trip which was a midway reward for completing half the program and little talk about the nature of everything else.  I think for these programs to be effective they should only be accepting people who want to do something hard to push the boundaries of there potential and grow as an individual.  Not those who want a vacation there is much cheaper vacations to take.  However I do know know the gap in information often came from the sponsors usually the parents who would say anything to get their kids to go to the program.  Some of the best students I had had footed the bill themselves and would push you as a staff to push them harder or hold them accountable because they really valued the experience and the goal of the program.
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: vagrant on March 02, 2012, 01:53:04 PM
I uh.... I was placed here from feb 2008 to july 2008. I stayed 19 weeks I think and was considered one of MHYR's most "successful" students...

I kind of blocked this whole experience out mentally until recently it's crept back up on me... I'm still in the process of trying to figure out how to mentally sort out and feel about this program....

If any of you have questions for students of this program I can answer them to the best of my recollection and ability... Alot of it is still coming back to me
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Halflinger on March 02, 2012, 10:44:53 PM
Hi, Vagrant. I'd appreciate hearing anything you'd be willing to share. How'd you end up there? How did you leave? What made you a "success"?  Any standout experiences that really stuck with you, or have come back at you hard?

As far as getting a handle on the time you spent there, there's a lot of good folks and info to be found on here, if you can tune out the trolling and flamewars and other assorted local color.
Thanks!
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: vagrant on March 03, 2012, 01:06:13 AM
I was a pretty rebellious teen.... I would ditch school frequently, While I wouldn't call myself addicted I used drugs a little more than casualy (Pot, Cocaine and Alcohol), The real issue was my homelife. My folks and I could not get along, I was the oldest kid by 8 years and naturally my folks tried a variety of different parenting techiques in an effort to see what worked and what didn't... They couldn't get along with each other to save their lives and I couldn't get along with them... Screaming matches would ensue on an almost daily basis at one point.... It was an emotional nightmare for a 16 year old and for my folks I'm sure.

It was around 4 in the morning... I awoke to my dad and 2 men I'd never seen before.. My dad told me I needed to go with them and that they were going to take me some place I could get some help... I was disoriented and kind of not with it, as I was still waking up.. I saw handcuffs on each of their hips and knew I didn't have a chance to make a break for it... I got dressed we walked down the stairs my Mom told me she loved me, I was confused, angry, scared, and felt betrayed and with all of these emotions running through my mind at once I couldn't muster a reply to her. We got in the car, I sat in the back next to the bigger of the two escourts, doors locked, we drove into Chicago (I'm about 40 min out) they offered to stop at McDonalds for me but I was the furthest thing from hungry... We got on a plane to some other airport then flew from that one to Salt Lake City. Once there we got into another car and drove to Vernal UT (Never in my life have I ever seen a stranger town, and I play in a touring band...) They fed me, we went into the office, the doctor gave me a physical, had me give him a urine sample, and without warning jabbed my finger with some needle thing for some sort of reading... They then drove me from the office to Colorado where I was greeted by maintenence staff and taken into the mountains...

Get into the mountains, change out of my clothes, into the MHYR student uniform. (Yellow shirt/sweater, camo pants) Was given my mountain supplies and given a student mentor (you get one on your first week to kind of tell you how the program works)

19 Weeks later I left. You're supposed to pass 12 or 15 weeks to graduate from the program (Many students don't and stay there until the parents run out of money) I passed 15 weeks, I also acheived my GED there..

Yeah I'd say some things stick out... Watching a kid fail every week because he didn't want to eat the food, couldn't physically complete the hikes, and was really just miserable, the other students in the group would constantly get upset with him because he would slow the group down, The week before he left I awoke to him wimpering in his sleeping bag, lips chapped, he had defacated himself, Looking back on it now I realize just how wrong that was....They did call him a faker.....After reading Aarons tragic story.... There was a pretty legitimate similarity between the two.. (But he was pretty damn far from a skeleton) His parents pulled him later that day... I'd like to think the mountain called them and told them of his deteriorating physical state and advised they come get him.... But I doubt it... They told us that more than likely Matt was being transfered to a more punitive program..... My god that is so fucked.... And the students nodded and we were never allowed to speak of him again.... JESUS CHRIST HOW DID I NOT REALIZE HOW BAD THAT WAS AT THE TIME!?

I've never seen paler faces then when a counselor came back into camp with a student who was on Solo.... A Mountain Lion had apparently passed by the students solo camp site... The student was sent right back out on solo that night... Why?... Why the hell does that make any sense at all? An extremely dangerous animal passes by this kids site and you send him back out there to spend 3 days alone....

The impact letters.... Your parents wrote you a letter about how much you've hurt them, all the pain you've caused your family, and why they sent you.... The students then were to read this aloud during group in the evening... Staff would read the letters before group to make sure you didn't leave anything out when you read it. There's recognizing that your actions have had negative effects on people, and taking accountability.... And then theres self degredation and humiliation... I guess it's a matter of opinion but I think MHYR's "Impact letters" were leaning towards the latter...

Come clean letter: Self explanatory... They even had a formula you would plug in to confess how many times you've used profanity in your life.... We read these aloud infront everyone as well... Again... Very humiliating... I believe the emphasis on these letters is also self degredation... You write all of these things down, to the last ludicrous detail and you think "My god I am such a fucking piece of shit", I should be dead,which then turns to "I'm so lucky I came to this program"" Really manipulating shit man.... I think thats what bothers me the most now.... Is all the subtle ways of manipulation

Runaways came in waves.... Typically if you had a bunch of new kids there at once and a problem student or two, you could expect a runaway. Staff DID NOT restrain students who ran, they followed them until they wished to come back, (realized there was nowhere to go)....I actually thought this was prett metaphorical and cool.... But now I can't help but think it was yet another way of manipulation.. A student told me when he ran he somehow got closer to the road and staff then threatened to "restrain" him if he proceeded...  I never ran..

I failed 4 weeks... One a staff member handed me my laundry past the fire circle (where you need to have gloves on) I grabbed it and he failed my week...

The other week I failed was during my "2 in one" where you get ONE oppurtunity to do two weeks in one week  to make up for failing a week. (Again you only get this oppurtunity once) A female staff, who was on for 2 shifts and we never saw her again after that had told me to speak up when helping another student with her book report, "I've been speaking up I thought you could hear me... Ugh.. Gettin Pissed" She had thought I said "Fucking Bitch" Now guys.... 3 years later... I swear on my sons life I never called her a fucking bitch. My words were "Getting pissed"  which was ok to say.. I had absolutely no track record of disrespecting staff or using profanity whatsoever in the 10 weeks I'd been there to that point. I begged and pleaded with her to see I hadn't called her that. To no avail. The head staff sympathized for me and asked my "Therapist" if we could pass one of my weeks for the "two in one" instead of failing both of them (This had been done before for students)..... Now because I still claimed I had not said that, He refused, stating I was refusing to take accountability.

The third one, my parents and I had bickered back and forth a bit on a phone call, no name calling or cussing or anything just not agreeing on the rules for me when I come home, my Mother told me she was going to put my little brother and Sister on the phone to say hi but Now she wasn't going to because of the conversation we had.... I replied with "Oh great cause you know I don't want to talk to my little  sister or anything" In obvious sarcasm. My therapist then suddenly got upset and hung up the phone call and told me that I had failed my week because of the phone call.

Now each of these were a little suspicious, but when put together... I honestly believe, because of the amount of money my folks had, and the rate i was progressing through the program, they wanted to keep me longer.... Longer stay = more $ and my folks had more money than alot of the other kids... You can put two and two together...   I really hope I don't sound like some bitter child about this.... I'm not. I would absolutely love to believe that when I failed my weeks, it was to help me progress as a person and about personal accountability... But It wasn't.. It was about money.. and the inconsistency in treatment of students proves that to me..

Food was Oats, Germade, Rice, Lentiles, Spam, and ...ashcakes.... I actually puked the first time I tried to eat rice and lentiles, the first month I would go to bed feeling hungry at times..If you moved up to the ranch phase you got to cook on a kerosene stove with eggs, noodles, sauce and some other not "shit" tasting food..  We had to drink a quart of water with each meal and half a quart in between.... When you first got there, every 10 minutes youd have to pee....  

Speaking of peeing...

I don't give a damn what anyone says.... There is something disturbing to me and degrading... About having to piss and shit in a hole in the dirt filled with other peoples piss and shit while you call out your number every 5 to 10 seconds.... The mental image of me yelling out "4" while flies swarm around me and I try to block out the stench of everyone elses waste and not fall in...

Thats not therapeutic... It's fucking wrong....

But again.. Thats my opinion, not the legal systems.

Before I go there are a few things I want to clarify.

The escorts were in no why violent, degrading, or cruel. They were nice guys, offered to feed me a bunch, we listened to Howard Stern in the car, cracked jokes, and they wished me well. The traumatic experience of being yanked from your bed, forced to travel across the country, and allowed no contact with anyone you know the whole way.... That was the cruel part...

MHYR did not help me... But I benifited from my stay there.....I survived the most mentally and emotionally grueling experience I've ever been through... I learned to better myself in spite of the actions of others, I learned how to survive in the wilderness, I learned how to motivate emotionally distraught kids, and I learned about one of the most impressive scams I've ever seen.... MHYR didn't help me.... I helped me..Some really awesome individuals that worked there helped me..... MHYR just cashed the check...

Field Staff is a mixed bag... Some genuinely care and want to help, Others are there for a pay check, a few are in between. I still keep in contact with past staff members there who I DO consider my friends.... Please do not make the false assumption that anyone who works at this place is a bad person...

I do not seek any sort of compensation from MHYR or to press charges on them...  I can't even begin to handle that whole ordeal... Theres so many "what ifs" and "Yeah but technnicallys" and.... It just feels wrong to me to do that.

This isn't a cry for attention man... I just started dealing with this and really just need to write about it so thank you to anyone who read this, thank you to this site and thread, apologies to anyone I may have offended.

That's all I'm gonna write for now feel free to ask more questions, I'll write more later.. Theres so much more about the maniulative genius that is MHYR I plan to eventually write a book on what I went through and my thoughts on it.
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: Halflinger on March 04, 2012, 11:19:26 PM
Thanks for your story. You have my sympathies, even looking from the outside, this place seems pretty bizarre. The overall impression that I've gotten from you, staff (current and former), and my friend's family isn't a very positive one. Most concerning to me has been the too common statements amounting to the idea that success in the program is dependent on the students willingness, attitude, effort, or whatever you feel like calling it. If we were talking about a pill, that made  claims at treating a broad range of unrelated conditions, cost this much, had no verifiable clinical trials to support it, and only worked if you believed in it... that would be at best a placebo, at worst an outright fraud, and probably both.

Some questions for you, if you'd care to answer.

What brought this back for you, or changed your feelings on it years after? (You ask why you didn't see how bad it was at the time, and that's one hell of a question. Had read a book on it, actually, a few years ago. The Lucifer Effect, by Phillip Zimbardo. I recommend it highly.)

How were your parents, and your relationship with them, affected? what did they think of the program?

Do you still have any materials (coursework, contracts, handbooks etc.)?

What were interactions between students like?
Title: Re: Mountain Homes and Beyond...
Post by: vagrant on March 05, 2012, 10:47:11 AM
Thanks for the tip on the book actually man I'll have to check it out.

What brought this back for me was a couple week ago i stumbled onto one of my journals from the program and read through a few entries... Most was just me filling pages with what I had done that day (A journal entry was required each day) Then i stumbled onto an entry that i wrote after my Therapist had failed me and it immediately took me back to being there.

last week I google'd the place and read this

http://just-another-hike.blogspot.com/2 ... chive.html (http://just-another-hike.blogspot.com/2011_12_01_archive.html)

That kind of lead to "Man was it really that bad?" and I started to try to remember....

I think it was a real kick to the stomach when I read that HEAL suspected the place of being abusive, and watching the short film "Aaron Bacon" and relating to alot of that shit..... Thats when I put it together that "Man I think something was wrong with that place"


My Parents and I... well.... It's complicated. I knew they'd spent alot of money, time, stress, and more money to put me through the program. I didn't want them to feel like they'd wasted it all... So i kept alot of shit from them... I wanted them to feel like it was worth it... And I think the other thing the program banks on is, If you take someone away from people they love for an extended period of time, when you finally give them those people back your going to get a very enthusiastic short term response... I told them it had worked wonders, as not to disappoint them,  A month later the fights had resumed but to alot lesser of an extremity. Our relationship really got better last June shortly after I turned 20 and I learned to accept myself, and other people for who they are.

Yes I still have course materials... Some packets and journals somewhere in the basement along with my backpack, bowdrill set, and some other stuff. I think I may be due for a bonfire pretty soon....

Interactions between students were mixed...There were never really any feuds between students, none of that "Man I'm gonna fuck this kid up"  Looking back actually student interaction was probably one of the factors in us staying sane, the fact that someone else was going through the same shit you were (well more or less) was comforting, and you felt like you had something in common with these kids. We weren't allowed to talk to each other outside of earshot, we weren't allowed to touch each other at all, We weren't allowed to really tell each other much about our history. Really it was just the students trying to get through as quickly as possible and help others do the same, and the ones who didn't give a fuck.. I tried to always help other kids get their tasks for their week done, and try to counter the constant self criticism of MHYR by constantly encouraging them...


I heard three kids ran from here, broke into a home, and stole a firearm...... That tells you a bit about the level of mental and emotional desperation these kids are put through in the program..

When I first got to the program, the only thing I kept thinking was, "If I jump into that fire, you think I'd burn alive before one of the staff tried to pull me out?"

It really really puts you in a dark place man.... A dark fucking place......