Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => EdCons and referring organizations and agencies => PURE Bullshit and CAICA => Topic started by: Anonymous on August 27, 2006, 03:34:09 PM
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Sue and Izzy: We all know you post here and read here so listen up, your involvement with the Texas lawsuit will be insurance none of us ever see a penny. you will blab all over and brag that how you found the lawyers and all information goes through you. then you will tell everyone our private information.
nothanks bee-aches!
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Sue Schjeff did =mess up the other lawsuit.
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For us who do not know: What Texas Lawsuit? and why would Scheff and Izzy be involved, anyway?
Can't the plainitiffs just tell the lawery(s) to keep these TWO away from it?
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They're like gnats. They won't go away.
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Yea, rather shitty that IZZY posted that complaint and didn't even show enough common sense to black out that young man's name, since he was a minor when he was in the WWASP facility.
But, oops--that wouldn't be quite sensational enough, would it? Blacking out this young man's name.
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Maybe those TWO like reading all that part of the complaint about RICO and illegal use of mail, telephones, mail etc...and wondering how they might just fit into the equation, huh?
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Here is a idea:
Has anyone thought about giving information to Turley Law on Sue Scheff?
JEAN HARRIS VS. SUE SCHEFF, WHITMORE, AND UNNAMED DEFENDANTS.
That law firm doesn't know who their little messangers to the public are, do they? Sue Scheff is one of the most unethical agents in the industry![/b][/i]
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Here is a idea:
Has anyone thought about giving information to Turley Law on Sue Scheff?
JEAN HARRIS VS. SUE SCHEFF, WHITMORE, AND UNNAMED DEFENDANTS.
That law firm doesn't know who their little messangers to the public are, do they? Sue Scheff is one of the most unethical agents in the industry![/b][/i]
Sue: You wouldn't mind if we had a discussion with the lawyers at Turley all about you and your scandalous business practices---would you? 8)
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Sue Scheff has been in a lot of lawsuits. She sued some dude for being after her who met her at one of the WWASP seminars. Sue sued Carey for the same thing WWASP sued Sue for. She was sued by WWASP. Sue was sued in Utah by other parents for other programs she refers kids to. Someone should check the Sue Scheff court records.
Yo mama named you just right "Sue". Sue-sue. :D
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To the person who just wrote about Sue Scheff and her lawsuits. There is a case coming up in Utah with her name involved. I would be very interested if any one may know of any lawsuits Sue has been involved in.
If we could get the names and number or where they were, I can get the depositions and information for another lawsuit. I know there was a case in Utah federal court and state court. Anyone have the names of the suits? It is important. I heard she is divorced so there would be information there and she sue a person she claimed was stalking her. What state? Help would be very good.
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///Sue was sued in Utah by other parents for other programs she refers kids to.///
Really? When? By whom and for what?
An what's this about? ///She sued some dude for being after her who met her at one of the WWASP seminars. ///
As to this new case - people are getting to riled up about Su/izzy's involvement. Looks to me as if this law firm will handle things in a ethical and professional manner; which would mean no way is Su/izzy going to be calling shots or directing traffic or anything other than making the announcement to the public. This isn't something law firms in the past have been happy about. Could be they will get their asses skinned as a result of their "involvement".
I would hope any one looking for some accountability from the program would not be put off by the "involvement" of these two. I believe it is more or less meaningless. Call the firm, and see what they say. No harm in asking.
As for not wanting to bother with civil action in favor of criminal action - OK - But so far, the Feds have failed to take an interest. Maybe a well prosecuted civil case will lead to bigger and better things?
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Didn't Sue Scheff have her name/profile on some dating service at one time? If that is true, sounds like maybe she invites so-called stalkers.
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Will Sue Scheff be called for depositions in the civil case against the Sudweeks/Whitmore Academy?
If so, that deposition should be very very interesting.
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Man, if Scheff is involved in this many lawsuits, you just gotta wanna be this broad's attorney. Think of the $$$ this guy's gotta be making just keeping up with her. :o
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Didn't Sue Scheff have her name/profile on some dating service at one time? If that is true, sounds like maybe she invites so-called stalkers.
There is millions of people who do online dating, I have 2 friends who are on match.com! So, get off your high horse!!!! You're just slinging whatever you can. You're pathetic. Talk about things that are relavent, not somebody's personal life, and whom they date, or how they date?!!
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///Sue was sued in Utah by other parents for other programs she refers kids to.///
Really? When? By whom and for what?
An what's this about? ///She sued some dude for being after her who met her at one of the WWASP seminars. ///
As to this new case - people are getting to riled up about Su/izzy's involvement. Looks to me as if this law firm will handle things in a ethical and professional manner; which would mean no way is Su/izzy going to be calling shots or directing traffic or anything other than making the announcement to the public. This isn't something law firms in the past have been happy about. Could be they will get their asses skinned as a result of their "involvement".
I would hope any one looking for some accountability from the program would not be put off by the "involvement" of these two. I believe it is more or less meaningless. Call the firm, and see what they say. No harm in asking.
As for not wanting to bother with civil action in favor of criminal action - OK - But so far, the Feds have failed to take an interest. Maybe a well prosecuted civil case will lead to bigger and better things?
Pfft.
It got leaked out sue wanted to sue ME before.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I have no interest in the on-line dating. My/our interest are the large number of deposition and trial testimony of Sue Scheff. She is involved in a trial with the Carey woman. It is going on now in south Florida.
Any identifying information would be appreciated. It is public and can be reproduced.
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I have no interest in the on-line dating. My/our interest are the large number of deposition and trial testimony of Sue Scheff. She is involved in a trial with the Carey woman. It is going on now in south Florida.
Any identifying information would be appreciated. It is public and can be reproduced.
you have me curious-online dating? my/our? identifying information? it is public and can be reproduced? not trying to pry at all but who are you with?[/quote
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I am investigating for a firm that is looking into a lawsuit against P.U.R.E. and Sue Scheff for referring a child to a program that abused our client's child. This forum has been helpful but we need the names and locations of the lawsuits to get the court information.
Anyone have "Carey's" contact info or know where the lawsuit was filed?
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Just google her name and the word "sellout" and I'm sure you'll find that bitch's contact info. :rofl: ::hehehmm::
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It didn't work... :(
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Ooppps,, sorry...you'll need to include the word "liar" in that search as well.. best of luck!
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Are you talk'en about me, Sue Scheff?
Ya'll are not nice.
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I was talking about Carey, not you.
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I was talking about Carey, not you.
Gottcha! You said liar and sell out so naturally I thought you meant me. :roll:
Whoopsie.[/u]
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Are you talk'en about me, Sue Scheff?
Ya'll are not nice.
why do you reccomend kids to these abusive programs???????????
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It's not really Sue, you do know that, right?
Just google her name and the word "sellout" and I'm sure you'll find that bitch's contact info
And exactly how many programs is Carey referring families to and profiting from it?
Let's see....what's worse. Referring parents and kids to known abusive programs while claiming that you're the 'safe' one and making a tidy sum from it (Sue/PURE) or accepting a few $$$ for info in a lawsuit with that is basically two abusive, greedy fucks suing each other?
Thought so.
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It's not really Sue, you do know that, right?
Just google her name and the word "sellout" and I'm sure you'll find that bitch's contact info
And exactly how many programs is Carey referring families to and profiting from it?
Let's see....what's worse. Referring parents and kids to known abusive programs while claiming that you're the 'safe' one and making a tidy sum from it (Sue/PURE) or accepting a few $$$ for info in a lawsuit with that is basically two abusive, greedy fucks suing each other?
Thought so.[/quote)
yeah, but it is fun to think that it is her
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It's not really Sue, you do know that, right?
Just google her name and the word "sellout" and I'm sure you'll find that bitch's contact info
And exactly how many programs is Carey referring families to and profiting from it?
Let's see....what's worse. Referring parents and kids to known abusive programs while claiming that you're the 'safe' one and making a tidy sum from it (Sue/PURE) or accepting a few $$$ for info in a lawsuit with that is basically two abusive, greedy fucks suing each other?
Thought so.
So that makes what Carey did ok then.... Riiiiiiight..... Pffft... :D
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True, they BOTH suck! :tup:
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I am investigating for a firm that is looking into a lawsuit against P.U.R.E. and Sue Scheff for referring a child to a program that abused our client's child. This forum has been helpful but we need the names and locations of the lawsuits to get the court information.
Anyone have "Carey's" contact info or know where the lawsuit was filed?
thank you for clearing that up-sorry i cant help you though. i do wish you luck in your endeavor though!
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True, they BOTH suck! :tup:
Truer words never spoken!
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So that makes what Carey did ok then.... Riiiiiiight..... Pffft... :D
Where did I say that? But........at least Carey isn't still doing damage. Sue/PURE refers kids to programs every damn day..........and profit handsomely from it.
All in all, I'd say Sue is the greater of the evils here. Just my opinion.
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Whatever......... They're both corrupt bitches.
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Whatever......... .
::bwahaha::
They're both corrupt bitches.
I'm just saying the fallout from one is much worse and lasting (and more heinous in nature IMO) than the other.
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Who really cares which is worse? I don't think anyone here was interested in drawing any comparison b/n the 2 of them...I sure as hell wasn't. Fuck both of those scumbag whore bitches! Goddam it!!!!! SHUT UP!!!!! :rofl: :rofl: :evil: :evil:
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Damn dude....chill out!
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Fuck off... Listen, I don't get why it fucking matters anyway...
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True, it doesn't matter much at all.. you're right.
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I know I am... now get back to whatever the hell you were talking about before.
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I think it matters. Sue is still out there actively hurting kids. Carey isn't. Seems that our efforts are better focused on what's happening now.
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.. now get back to whatever the hell you were talking about before.
I think it was this
SUE SCHEFF and ISABELLE ZENDHER (PURE, CAICA, WWASP lawsuit)
which would include, Sue, Izzy and Carey.
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I think it matters. Sue is still out there actively hurting kids. Carey isn't. Seems that our efforts are better focused on what's happening now.
There you go with the comparisons again. I make one comment about Carey and all of a sudden I'm distracting people from their efforts? WTF is THAT horseshit?? (((LOL))) For fux sake, lighten up and let me hate Carey if I want to! :rofl:
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hate her all you want honey. I didn't say you were distracting anyone either.
Calm down. Take a valium, smoke a joint, drink large quanitities of alcohol. :rofl:
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I think it matters. Sue is still out there actively hurting kids. Carey isn't. Seems that our efforts are better focused on what's happening now.
There you go with the comparisons again. I make one comment about Carey and all of a sudden I'm distracting people from their efforts? WTF is THAT horseshit?? (((LOL))) For fux sake, lighten up and let me hate Carey if I want to! :rofl:
hate who you want. i dont care for any of them
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Unfortunately I'm all out of pills and booze, so you'll have to endure my charming personality for now. ((LOL)) No, you didn't say that, but it was implied when you said what you did about focusing....do you take me for some dumb spook who just got off the boat??? (((LMAO)))
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yes :rofl:
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I think it matters. Sue is still out there actively hurting kids. Carey isn't. Seems that our efforts are better focused on what's happening now.
There you go with the comparisons again. I make one comment about Carey and all of a sudden I'm distracting people from their efforts? WTF is THAT horseshit?? (((LOL))) For fux sake, lighten up and let me hate Carey if I want to! :rofl:
hate who you want. i dont care for any of them
That's the spirit! HATE HATE HATE and more HATE!!! :flame: :flame: :flame: :rofl:
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yes :rofl:
Well lemme tell ya', I'm notb. mambuh!..
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:rofl: :rofl:
What??
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I buh sedbuh thatbuh....ohbuh, nevvuhminbuh...
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:rofl: :wave: ::armed::
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lol
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::rocker:: ::bwahaha:: ::bangin:: ::cheers:: ::bigsmilebounce:: :tup:
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::rocker:: ::bwahaha:: ::bangin:: ::cheers:: ::bigsmilebounce:: :tup:
maybe they understood that
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maybe they understood that
What? You don't speak Mushmouth?
:rofl: :rofl:
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(http://http://www.lasvegasmercury.com/2004/MERC-Nov-25-Thu-2004/photos/guest.jpg)
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I'll be that the NAACP thought pretty highly of Mushmouth. :rofl:
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hehe.....you posted at 7:14......hehe :rofl:
(http://http://home.earthlink.net/~silverplatter/quaaludeblack.jpg)
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I know... Does that mean I get a t-shirt???
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I'm officially lost.
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The whorehouse is that way. ยป :rofl:
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Beer just blew all over my screen. :rofl: :rofl:
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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So do I get that quaalude tshirt or what? :question:
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Just google her name and the word "sellout" and I'm sure you'll find that bitch's contact info. :rofl: ::hehehmm::
:wave: :rofl: ::rocker:: ::nod:: ::bwahaha2:: ::bigsmilebounce:: ::troll:: ::kma:: ::soapbox:: ::kiss:: ::deal:: ::drummer::
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So do I get that quaalude or what? :question:
Ahhhhh, wouldn't it be nice? :smokin:
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Even better! In fact, that was going to be my next question. ;)
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Ok... How about a Mushmouth t-shirt then?
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Getting back to the question of the investigator, Mr. CURIOUS GEORGE, does anyone have any information on depositions about SUE SCHEFF or P.U.R.E.? The poor guy probably thinks we are all nuts.
The question was about SUE SCHEFF, SUE SCHEFF, SUE SCHEFF. Not beer and drugs Poindexters. :o ::bandit::
This is what Sue Scheff will be lookin like soon. Red panties and all.
::crybaby:: ::jawdrop::
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Ok, but I'd still like a tshirt and a maybe a quaalude or two. :D
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Getting back to the question of the investigator, Mr. CURIOUS GEORGE, does anyone have any information on depositions about SUE SCHEFF or P.U.R.E.? The poor guy probably thinks we are all nuts.
The question was about SUE SCHEFF, SUE SCHEFF, SUE SCHEFF. Not beer and drugs Poindexters. :o ::bandit::
This is what Sue Scheff will be lookin like soon. Red panties and all.
::crybaby:: ::jawdrop::
Yeah, yeah....ok mom. :D Didn't mean to get carried away. It was fun though.
::bwahaha2::
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CURIOUS, if you really want information, you need to register so you can receive private messages.
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Callin all Ginger Warbises
I'm wondering if maybe you could start a forum all about me, yes ME, ME, and ME. and more ME. Oh and please include my bestest friend Izzie. We lobe each other to death do us part.
Please please Auntie Ginger. My very own forum called Sue Scheff and Izzie?
I wove woo Ginger.
Sue Scheff
::rainbow:: ::dove:: Oh yea and please include my P.U.R.E. as a dove sign because im pure and innocent in RED!
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Ok, but I'd still like a tshirt and a maybe a quaalude or two. :D
Somebody please feed this guy some qualudes, and give him a shirt.
You're not doing anyone any good when you get soooo far off the subject. Get on a chatline if you want to jibber jabber.
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Oh calm down. It was what, a half hour out of the whole thread?
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Somebody please feed this guy some qualudes, and give him a shirt.
Thank you. Nice to know ~someone wants to help me out with that.. :D
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a guest writes: CURIOUS, if you really want information, I want you to register so you can receive private messages.
I say: Very good idea.
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I say: Fuck you! :lol:
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Hey dicks,
Vote for ME Sue Scheff to have my very own forum like WWASP
Vote for P.U.R.E.
::dove::
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Sounds great.
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I read this forum all the time now that ronnie has left us. fascinating, I must say!
I vote 'yes' for Miss Scheffs very own forum.
Just say no to drugs but say yes to the Sue Scheff forum idea. Its a great idea and she will look lovely in it, framed and all. Just lovely.
Thank you.
thank you.
Nice chatting with you all but i must go now.
Nancy
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More reasons why Sue Scheff and P.U.R.E. need their own 'place' on Fornits--
MightyAardvark wrote:
As unpopular as Scheff and Zhender are there's no way to dispute their effectiveness.
CCM girl agrees. They don't know who Scheff really is. She is the fox watching the hen house. The wolf in sheeps clothing. Scheff is the fly trap. The public needs an education.
Im very surprised at you CCM girl. Very very surprised. Arent you a survivor?
You are not aware that Sue Scheff is a fly trap for parents to get them to send their kids to her abusive programs? She has no more qualifications than Bob Lichfield.
Same with Izzie - she has hooked up with Scheff for attention and is now helping desperate parents to spend thousands on the SUE SCHEFF version of child abuse.
Are you serious? You cant see through what they are doing? You do know about criminal charges and investigations at some of the programs Scheff refers to?
Back to top
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Learn to use the quote thing, your replies are fucking me up.
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Learn to use the quote thing, your replies are fucking me up.
MightyAardvark wrote:
"As unpopular as Scheff and Zhender are there's no way to dispute their effectiveness.
CCM girl agrees. They don't know who Scheff really is. She is the fox watching the hen house. The wolf in sheeps clothing. Scheff is the fly trap. The public needs an education."
Here ya go dumb ass. Does that help your pea sized brain?
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You talkin' to me, fuckface?
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And you STILL get it right, idiot! :rofl:
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And you STILL get it right, idiot! :rofl:
Ah, yea genius. You really make a lot of sense brainiac. :smokin:
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That's because I'm a FUCKING GENIUS.
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More reasons why Sue Scheff and P.U.R.E. need their own 'place' on Fornits--
MightyAardvark wrote:
As unpopular as Scheff and Zhender are there's no way to dispute their effectiveness.
CCM girl agrees. They don't know who Scheff really is. She is the fox watching the hen house. The wolf in sheeps clothing. Scheff is the fly trap. The public needs an education.
Im very surprised at you CCM girl. Very very surprised. Arent you a survivor?
You are not aware that Sue Scheff is a fly trap for parents to get them to send their kids to her abusive programs? She has no more qualifications than Bob Lichfield.
Same with Izzie - she has hooked up with Scheff for attention and is now helping desperate parents to spend thousands on the SUE SCHEFF version of child abuse.
Are you serious? You cant see through what they are doing? You do know about criminal charges and investigations at some of the programs Scheff refers to?
Back to top
The only program I know of that has criminal charges being brought against them is Whitmore. The one Cheryl Sudweeks owned. I do realize that Scheff reffered parents there. I do also realize that Scheff refers to other programs too. I'm not sure how many of those are concidered "abusive"?
WWASPS is in a different catagory on it's own. Atleast it is for me. I think that trying to modify teens behaivor through old school ways, and hooking up with toughlove/hate ways of treating kids, having facilities that are not sanitary, having staff who have no experience and very mininmal training, and basically trying to make as big of profit as possible which means they are not putting the kind of money they should be in these programs. Not to mention the brainwashing that goes on in seminars for both parents/teens.
The reason they have been able to grow as quickly as they have is because they don't put the money they make into the programs they have. They are quantity, not quality.
I am a survivor of Cross Creek Manor, and I do want to see them change their ways. I think that parents pay a lot of money to house their teens, and they should get what they pay for. Parents are being fooled. Straight up, no other way around it. They see the glossy brochures, they hear the friendly voices on the other end of the telephone doing what they do best, selling them on the program. Parents have no clue what they are about to put their kids through.
I think that there is a need for treatment centers for teens. I believe that if therapy is not working at home, that there should be other alternatives. But, the alternatives aren't that impressive when it comes to WWASPS schools. I believe if you are going to charge the money that they do, there should be a lot more ammenities. I believe there should be more houseparents, and that they should be paid more to attract more qualified canidates. I believe that therapists should have a maximum case load of 16.
Ask your kid those of you parents that have them at a WWASP school how many other kids see your therapist? You'll be shocked to say the least when you hear the answer!!!!
I would love the opportunity to have my own place. I am not against people making a profit off of TBS's. But, I never will have my own place. I'd be more then happy to consult these guys, and tell them what they need to do, and how they could improve. But, do you think they wanna hear it from somebody like me? No. Not only that but it would require them spending more money, oh they hate that! It would mean they would need to be open about changing the programs ways. Um, they think they know it all........so that ain't happening.
If they cannot, and refuse to change their ways........they need to be shut down. Do I believe there are good programs out there, yes. Would I recommend any of WWASP schools, at this point in time absolutely fucking not.
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SIBS -- The Wave of the Future in Drug Treatment?
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You totally missed the point CCM girl. Scheff and P.U.R.E. are the mini version of Robert Lichfield and WWASP or his marketing agents. Remember Sue was one Bob's top marketers. There have been other P.U.R.E. programs with abuse charges and Sheff contues to refer. Sue scheff and P.U.R.E. have done nothing but confuse and use parents while pretening to understand and help.
You are naive.
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None of those programs can hold a candle to the quality treatment available at SIBS! Send us your little druggie today!
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My dearest Ginger,
What do you have against me Love? I ask and ask you for my own space on your web site but you ignore me. Why my dearest?
Is it something Iv'e done? Do you hate me? :roll:
Please respond by midnight tonight or I'll turn into a vampire.
::dove::
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Oooohh... Sue... It's after midnight... Suck me DRY, baby...
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You totally missed the point CCM girl. Scheff and P.U.R.E. are the mini version of Robert Lichfield and WWASP or his marketing agents. Remember Sue was one Bob's top marketers. There have been other P.U.R.E. programs with abuse charges and Sheff contues to refer. Sue scheff and P.U.R.E. have done nothing but confuse and use parents while pretening to understand and help.
You are naive.
I may be naive........I don't claim to know it all. I will continue to learn, and investigate with the time that I have to spend on it. I have only been around fornits for a year, I don't know all the players.
Anyway, I was in two programs.........one which wasn't a WWASP school called Heritage in Provo Utah from 1-86 until 5-89 then a WWASP school by the name of Cross Creek Manor located in La Verkin, Utah from 5-89 until 2-90. If you have any questions about either of these programs feel free to contact me.
I'm just going to leave it at that!
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CCM Girl, rather than spending all this time trying to figure out the players on Fornits, why not get proactive in trying to make a difference. I don't mean that in any bad way, but there is so much that can be done with the precious little time we all have. You can write letters to legislators, Try speaking to groups in your area, educate as many people as you can, let parents know the danger of sending their kids away. Spending so much time on Fornits, frankly, can?t be mentally healthy for anyone. I know it?s not for me and I come here to look for news, etc., that?s it. Getting involved with the handful of people who spend most of their time hurting others, just doesn?t seem productive to me. Just a thought.
I ony address this to you, CCM girl, because you make sense and seem very bright. I think you have the ability to make a difference. Please, remember there are two sides to every story and you will hear only one side here on Fornits.
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CCM Girl, rather than spending all this time trying to figure out the players on Fornits, why not get proactive in trying to make a difference. I don't mean that in any bad way, but there is so much that can be done with the precious little time we all have. You can write letters to legislators, Try speaking to groups in your area, educate as many people as you can, let parents know the danger of sending their kids away. Spending so much time on Fornits, frankly, can?t be mentally healthy for anyone. I know it?s not for me and I come here to look for news, etc., that?s it. Getting involved with the handful of people who spend most of their time hurting others, just doesn?t seem productive to me. Just a thought.
I ony address this to you, CCM girl, because you make sense and seem very bright. I think you have the ability to make a difference. Please, remember there are two sides to every story and you will hear only one side here on Fornits.
Youre trying to make it seem like what Sue is doing is somehow acceptable. Its not a case of "oh just ignore her or hear her side of the story bla bla bla", its a case of shes hijacking credibility from our actions to make a buck sending kids to the programs shes picked for whatever reason to send them to, for the kickback money they give her... and hide from us what programs they are!
Shes doing the EXACT same thing WWASPS does iwth its programs, except her entire thing is "well, wwasps is bad, and we're gonna fight that abuse.. but Ill find GOOD PROGRAMS!!! GIMME UR KID" in a nutshell.
However, this does nothing to address program abuse, the lack of oversight, the lack of any way for a kid in a program to escape if they are abused or tell anyone they ARE being abused, this doesnt make programs operate cleanly, safely, and nonabusively, this doesnt make them actually treat anything, and it doesnt do anything about kids with nothing wrong being thrown away in programs without any rights to not be locked up if nothing is wrong with them!
That is not tolerable. This isnt whack a mole, and whack WWASPS first... this is a case of shes doing the same thing as WWASPS, just pointing a finger at them and saying shes not doing it, yet she is! If it was ONLY Sue and her programs, that would still be a bad thing, and Ive said why in the previous paragraph.
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Well said, Niles.
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Kids don't deserve no goddamn rights, cuz they ain't no better than a bunch of fuckin NIGGERS! If mine ever try to "assert their rights" I'm gonna drag 'em out to the woodshed and tear up their uppity little asses!
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CCM Girl, rather than spending all this time trying to figure out the players on Fornits, why not get proactive in trying to make a difference. I don't mean that in any bad way, but there is so much that can be done with the precious little time we all have. You can write letters to legislators, Try speaking to groups in your area, educate as many people as you can, let parents know the danger of sending their kids away. Spending so much time on Fornits, frankly, can?t be mentally healthy for anyone. I know it?s not for me and I come here to look for news, etc., that?s it. Getting involved with the handful of people who spend most of their time hurting others, just doesn?t seem productive to me. Just a thought.
I ony address this to you, CCM girl, because you make sense and seem very bright. I think you have the ability to make a difference. Please, remember there are two sides to every story and you will hear only one side here on Fornits.
And how do you suggest I do this? What am I supposed to do, take out newspaper advertisements on edjucating parents in regards to TBS's, BMOD's, and Wilderness Programs? Good programs vs. bad programs? Then how do I go about edjucating parents without getting my little tail sued off? Oh, and god forbid I receive payment for doing this, because then I would be just as bad as Sue, and the rest! Or should I just do it from the money outta my pocket, and go broke to save the world?
You tell me! BTW- I have written letters, I have signed petitions, I have contacted news agencies. Anyway, it is frusterating for me. I do feel stuck in the middle.
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CCM Girl, rather than spending all this time trying to figure out the players on Fornits, why not get proactive in trying to make a difference. I don't mean that in any bad way, but there is so much that can be done with the precious little time we all have. You can write letters to legislators, Try speaking to groups in your area, educate as many people as you can, let parents know the danger of sending their kids away. Spending so much time on Fornits, frankly, can?t be mentally healthy for anyone. I know it?s not for me and I come here to look for news, etc., that?s it. Getting involved with the handful of people who spend most of their time hurting others, just doesn?t seem productive to me. Just a thought.
I ony address this to you, CCM girl, because you make sense and seem very bright. I think you have the ability to make a difference. Please, remember there are two sides to every story and you will hear only one side here on Fornits.
I am wondering how many kids do you think were prevented from being sent to abusive programs because of letters written to legislators. I'm curious if you believe you can reach more people with your message by speaking to groups of folks in person, or by using the internet?
Call me crazy, but I bet fornits discussions have prevented many more kids from being sent away because parents search and find this site. As much as people dislike fornits, it's one of the few methods that actually work in preventing kids from being abused, by educating those who are ignorant. How many people has fornits inspired to take on teen industry abuse as an issue important to them?
I find your last remark ironic because fornits is the only site that does allow two sides to the story. Everyone else moderates their sites to fit their agenda.
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Anyway, it is frusterating for me. I do feel stuck in the middle.
That is exactly how WWASPS and other people making their living off programs want you to feel. If you feel that way, you will not speak out, and if you do there will always be a caveat about allowable programs, and the abusive programs can always hide in that wiggle room.
So long as there is forced treatment on unwilling subjects, abuse will exist. There is 100%, absolutely no way around that fact; no matter how much the teen industry profiteers would like us to forget.
-
Anyway, it is frusterating for me. I do feel stuck in the middle.
That is exactly how WWASPS and other people making their living off programs want you to feel. If you feel that way, you will not speak out, and if you do there will always be a caveat about allowable programs, and the abusive programs can always hide in that wiggle room.
So long as there is forced treatment on unwilling subjects, abuse will exist. There is 100%, absolutely no way around that fact; no matter how much the teen industry profiteers would like us to forget.
Okay, I've hit a dead end street, I don't know about the rest of you?!! There is always going to be programs out there that are abusive. My goal is to weed those out. Families need help, and their kids deserve to have it, in a loving and caring enviroment. I was a pain in the butt kid, but I had real shitty parenting. Had I had the opportunity to go into somebody elses home that did have a great family unit/structure I would've jumped at it!!!! I probably would have excelled in that enviroment.
Unfortunately, I didn't and I got stuck in these programs for 4+ years of my life from ages 12-16. I came out with more problems then I came in with. My parents substitutted their responsbility for parenting, and replaced it with these schools (Heritage, and Cross Creek Manor). I needed a place that provided therapy for my abandoment issues, and people who cared about me. Instead I got thrown into these schools where I barely had any contact with my family. Year after year went by.........my goals came and went of returning home. There was always some excuse why I needed to stay longer. Finally when i reached my 4th consequetive year I asked my therapist point blank.....am I ever leaving? Is there anything I can do to be able to go home?
He just shook his head, and said I am really sorry but I'm afraid you are going to be here until you're 18. That's when I got the "Fuck It Attitude" I did somethings I regret, I hurt some people in the process, but in the end I jumped from the window and ran like hell in the middle of the night with staff chasing after me. I was able to get away for a few weeks before I called my shrink and was told to talk to my parents about living on my own. They gave me a small amount of money per month until my 18th b-day. About 6 months before my b-day my aunt and uncle gave me the opportunity to come out to Northern California to finish high school. I took them up on it, and the rest is history.
Had I had them when I was 12 I would've been fine. I am forever grateful for them, and I didn't find out until later they had wanted to adopt me at age 9 but my parents wouldn't allow it. God forbid they were the problem, and not me, and that would've been proven by me going to my aunt and uncles at an earlier age. Let's face it my friends there are people out there who clearly don't want to be parents anymore.
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Anyway, it is frusterating for me. I do feel stuck in the middle.
That is exactly how WWASPS and other people making their living off programs want you to feel. If you feel that way, you will not speak out, and if you do there will always be a caveat about allowable programs, and the abusive programs can always hide in that wiggle room.
So long as there is forced treatment on unwilling subjects, abuse will exist. There is 100%, absolutely no way around that fact; no matter how much the teen industry profiteers would like us to forget.
Okay, I've hit a dead end street, I don't know about the rest of you?!! There is always going to be programs out there that are abusive. My goal is to weed those out. Families need help, and their kids deserve to have it, in a loving and caring enviroment. I was a pain in the butt kid, but I had real shitty parenting. Had I had the opportunity to go into somebody elses home that did have a great family unit/structure I would've jumped at it!!!! I probably would have excelled in that enviroment.
Unfortunately, I didn't and I got stuck in these programs for 4+ years of my life from ages 12-16. I came out with more problems then I came in with. My parents substitutted their responsbility for parenting, and replaced it with these schools (Heritage, and Cross Creek Manor). I needed a place that provided therapy for my abandoment issues, and people who cared about me. Instead I got thrown into these schools where I barely had any contact with my family. Year after year went by.........my goals came and went of returning home. There was always some excuse why I needed to stay longer. Finally when i reached my 4th consequetive year I asked my therapist point blank.....am I ever leaving? Is there anything I can do to be able to go home?
He just shook his head, and said I am really sorry but I'm afraid you are going to be here until you're 18. That's when I got the "Fuck It Attitude" I did somethings I regret, I hurt some people in the process, but in the end I jumped from the window and ran like hell in the middle of the night with staff chasing after me. I was able to get away for a few weeks before I called my shrink and was told to talk to my parents about living on my own. They gave me a small amount of money per month until my 18th b-day. About 6 months before my b-day my aunt and uncle gave me the opportunity to come out to Northern California to finish high school. I took them up on it, and the rest is history.
Had I had them when I was 12 I would've been fine. I am forever grateful for them, and I didn't find out until later they had wanted to adopt me at age 9 but my parents wouldn't allow it. God forbid they were the problem, and not me, and that would've been proven by me going to my aunt and uncles at an earlier age. Let's face it my friends there are people out there who clearly don't want to be parents anymore.
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Thanks for that powerful post, it's nice to hear other people's stories. I don't have a political goal in posting here, I am not on a mission other than to share my own experiences and hear from others with a similar interest... probably not by their own choice. So thanks for sharing, I enjoy that type of post much more than the broad based political discussions.
I wonder a lot about whether the problem really is programs, or that of our parents. Afterall, with enough money, I could get someone to do anything I want, from murder to sexual deviant acts to whatever. But who is truly the source of evil in a situation when one party is simply paying the other for services rendered. Are our parents negligent for not checking up on what they were paying for? Can we really just accept the fact they say they were duped and didn't know, but simultaneously took zero effort in checking up on us? I think sometimes I want to project all my anger on 'programs' but in fact a lot of that anger is really directed at my parents.
The fact that there are people out there wiling to abuse kids for large sums of money is not what shocked me about the whole experience. I had seen that stuff before. What shocked me is that I could write a letter home to my parent telling them what was going on, how I was being mistreated, and have them write back in a program tone completely dismissing me. Like you said, abandonment, that was something that I was familiar with before in my childhood, but not to the extreme of being locked away in a program incommunicado. At least prisoners can write letters to their lawyer, their congressman, the pope. All we could write to was our parents, begging them to take us home. Pleading for an explanation as to why we are locked up at this god-awful place. And most of all, wondering why they won't believe us/check up on us. To be willingly forgotten is not a good feeling.
That is why I wonder who is at fault here. Programs and business opportunists and profiteers, the minimum-wage receiving family father, or our parents... for selling us down the river? I haven't figured this out for myself yet.
I suppose this could be considered the old 'chicken and egg argument', and now they feed each other. I feel the same way you do, it's disheartening to believe things are going to change for the better, and in only a few years WWASP has expanded with several new facilities instead.
I feel like we spend a lot of my time screaming at these families walking towards a cliff, completely unbeknownst to them, and not only do they ignore our warnings but hurl insults right back. Shortly before plunging down... to a place they had no idea even existed.
I guess there is one plus, a constant stream of new posters at fornits! :lol: :roll: :cry:
Sometimes I feel a lot like this guy:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4130733905 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3033236864130733905)
But other times I feel like this guy.. so who knows!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1558581805 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1609134961558581805)
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CCM girl and others: Can't you see that the comments below are from ISABELLE ZENDHER, the "other" Sue Scheff? Isabelle, the great CA-CA is on Fornits every single day of her invisible and sorry life.
"CCM Girl, rather than spending all this time trying to figure out the players on Fornits, why not get proactive in trying to make a difference. I don't mean that in any bad way, but there is so much that can be done with the precious little time we all have. You can write letters to legislators, Try speaking to groups in your area, educate as many people as you can, let parents know the danger of sending their kids away. Spending so much time on Fornits, frankly, can?t be mentally healthy for anyone. I know it?s not for me and I come here to look for news, etc., that?s it. Getting involved with the handful of people who spend most of their time hurting others, just doesn?t seem productive to me. Just a thought.
I ony address this to you, CCM girl, because you make sense and seem very bright. I think you have the ability to make a difference. Please, remember there are two sides to every story and you will hear only one side here on Fornits."
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Ginger, cant ya see im the most loved person on your fornits forum. get me my own place. I demand it NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Guest of a Guest wrote:
Hey Ginger we need you to help us. you can see there is great support for Sues own forum. Can you help us out here ginger?
Just do it"
yea,come on Ginger. The SUE SCHEFF and P.U.R.E. Show?
Your not afraid im gonna sue you again are you? Cause that woundnt be right. I forgive you for screwing with my head.
Nihilie will run the show. Just set er up and let er rip Ginger![/b]
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Thanks for that powerful post, it's nice to hear other people's stories. I don't have a political goal in posting here, I am not on a mission other than to share my own experiences and hear from others with a similar interest... probably not by their own choice. So thanks for sharing, I enjoy that type of post much more than the broad based political discussions.
I wonder a lot about whether the problem really is programs, or that of our parents. Afterall, with enough money, I could get someone to do anything I want, from murder to sexual deviant acts to whatever. But who is truly the source of evil in a situation when one party is simply paying the other for services rendered. Are our parents negligent for not checking up on what they were paying for? Can we really just accept the fact they say they were duped and didn't know, but simultaneously took zero effort in checking up on us? I think sometimes I want to project all my anger on 'programs' but in fact a lot of that anger is really directed at my parents.
The fact that there are people out there wiling to abuse kids for large sums of money is not what shocked me about the whole experience. I had seen that stuff before. What shocked me is that I could write a letter home to my parent telling them what was going on, how I was being mistreated, and have them write back in a program tone completely dismissing me. Like you said, abandonment, that was something that I was familiar with before in my childhood, but not to the extreme of being locked away in a program incommunicado. At least prisoners can write letters to their lawyer, their congressman, the pope. All we could write to was our parents, begging them to take us home. Pleading for an explanation as to why we are locked up at this god-awful place. And most of all, wondering why they won't believe us/check up on us. To be willingly forgotten is not a good feeling.
That is why I wonder who is at fault here. Programs and business opportunists and profiteers, the minimum-wage receiving family father, or our parents... for selling us down the river? I haven't figured this out for myself yet.
I suppose this could be considered the old 'chicken and egg argument', and now they feed each other. I feel the same way you do, it's disheartening to believe things are going to change for the better, and in only a few years WWASP has expanded with several new facilities instead.
I feel like we spend a lot of my time screaming at these families walking towards a cliff, completely unbeknownst to them, and not only do they ignore our warnings but hurl insults right back. Shortly before plunging down... to a place they had no idea even existed.
I guess there is one plus, a constant stream of new posters at fornits! :lol: :roll: :cry:
Sometimes I feel a lot like this guy:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4130733905 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3033236864130733905)
But other times I feel like this guy.. so who knows!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1558581805 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1609134961558581805)
My name is Sous Chef and I approve of this message.
::nod::
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:-?
(http://http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/06/14/fans_wideweb__430x297.jpg)
(http://http://www.vnn.vn/dataimages/original/images641873_MichaelJackson_fan.jpg)
(http://http://www.ucsbdailynexus.com/story_images/2005-04-08/lr08ap05Jacksonphoto.jpg)
(http://http://www.soulwalking.co.uk/%A5Artist%20GIF%20Images/Michael-Jackson-With-Kids.jpg)
Yes, I went there.
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CAICA knows the importance of warning parents against abusive programs. We also realize parents need options. Though we do not provide referrals, we do offer our recommendation to contact
P.U.R.E.*, as they give parents safe options and offer help:
----------------------------------------
Is this a joke? We (meaning Isabelle) do not provide referrals, just recommendations to a website called PURE that IS in the referral business.
Re: Teen Revitalization (Also a Referral Website)
Mr. Bundy fails to provide names of the facilities he promotes.
http://www.caica.org/Teen%20revitalization.htm (http://www.caica.org/Teen%20revitalization.htm)
Is Isabelle aware that the same can be said for Sue Scheff of PURE who also fails to provide the names of the facilities she refers to?
:roll:
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CCM girl and others: Can't you see that the comments below are from ISABELLE ZENDHER, the "other" Sue Scheff? Isabelle, the great CA-CA is on Fornits every single day of her invisible and sorry life.
"CCM Girl, rather than spending all this time trying to figure out the players on Fornits, why not get proactive in trying to make a difference. I don't mean that in any bad way, but there is so much that can be done with the precious little time we all have. You can write letters to legislators, Try speaking to groups in your area, educate as many people as you can, let parents know the danger of sending their kids away. Spending so much time on Fornits, frankly, can?t be mentally healthy for anyone. I know it?s not for me and I come here to look for news, etc., that?s it. Getting involved with the handful of people who spend most of their time hurting others, just doesn?t seem productive to me. Just a thought.
I ony address this to you, CCM girl, because you make sense and seem very bright. I think you have the ability to make a difference. Please, remember there are two sides to every story and you will hear only one side here on Fornits."
CAICA knows the importance of warning parents against abusive programs. We also realize parents need options. Though we do not provide referrals, we do offer our recommendation to contact
P.U.R.E.*, as they give parents safe options and offer help:
----------------------------------------
Is this a joke? We (meaning Isabelle) do not provide referrals, just recommendations to a website called PURE that IS in the referral business.
Re: Teen Revitalization (Also a Referral Website)
Mr. Bundy fails to provide names of the facilities he promotes.
http://www.caica.org/Teen%20revitalization.htm (http://www.caica.org/Teen%20revitalization.htm)
Is Isabelle aware that the same can be said for Sue Scheff of PURE who also fails to provide the names of the facilities she refers to?
:roll:
Dead on! :tup: :tup:
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The only program I know of that has criminal charges being brought against them is Whitmore. The one Cheryl Sudweeks owned. I do realize that Scheff reffered parents there. I do also realize that Scheff refers to other programs too. I'm not sure how many of those are concidered "abusive"?.
Why would Sue continue to refer to Whitmore even after these allegations of abuse came out? Even after criminal charges were filed?
Sue is a greedy attention whore. Izzy is just an attention whore. Don't know if she gets any financial gain from it or just the high of being a 'savior'.
-
CAICA knows the importance of warning parents against abusive programs. We also realize parents need options. Though we do not provide referrals, we do offer our recommendation to contact
P.U.R.E.*, as they give parents safe options and offer help:
----------------------------------------
Is this a joke? We (meaning Isabelle) do not provide referrals, just recommendations to a website called PURE that IS in the referral business.
Re: Teen Revitalization (Also a Referral Website)
Mr. Bundy fails to provide names of the facilities he promotes.
http://www.caica.org/Teen%20revitalization.htm (http://www.caica.org/Teen%20revitalization.htm)
Is Isabelle aware that the same can be said for Sue Scheff of PURE who also fails to provide the names of the facilities she refers to?
:roll:
The bottom line is theyre peddling programs to parents.
Lesse, why is this... fallacious and bullshit?
- PROGRAMS DO NOT PROVIDE THERAPY!
- What programs DO provide is mind control, behavior modification, or brainwashing - whatever you call it, thats what it is. Its not about therapy, or fixing problems, its about breaking them down, making them think differently, and believe in the new-agey bullshit shoved down their throat and forced self disclosure to everyone, all the time, and regression-based ''experiences" and "epiphanies" (an emotional effect, or a pathological one... again, take your pick) so they come out acting like stepford kids, do as told, and 'relate' and 'spill the beans' to everyone on request.
- The abuse and emotional scarring from that process, plus deprogramming, is just another problem to get treatment for, in addition to any they had in the first place
- The isolation from the outside world fucks them up. Im sick of spelling out and enumerating the same old thing... read the same shit I have and figure it out for yourself, youve got a brain, USE IT!
- Last but not least, theyre isolated from their family, and the programs bullshit given to the parents about what they should expect from a child, and their abdication of responsibility, makes them quite a bit more disfunctional than they were in the first place, or disfunctional in the first place if they werent, but just a fool to send their kid to a program.
A program is a program, its not therapy. Therapy isnt pushed upon kids who dont need it, yet programs take any kids with paying parents. Programs dont give therapy anyway, and most say so in fine print or when pushed on the issue... or make you buy it seperately like some WWASPS programs. Its about control, and regression, and 'brainwashing' to be vulgar, not about healing or fixing anything.
And, well, a great dumping ground for hysterical parents or someone wanting to ditch their kids, who has sufficient money.
The really funny thing is that if you 'fix a program' you end up with something we already have, thats not a program at all... TREATMENT and THERAPY for people who need it, not those who do not, and its only lock-in as long as is absolutely necessary for the childs safety, not becuase a program, parent, or some idiot staffer said so, without isolation from the outside world, captivity, or abuse.
AKA, a fucking mental hospital.
-Niles. And Im sick of my cookies fucking up so I just dont bother... you all can tell how I write anyway.
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The really funny thing is that if you 'fix a program' you end up with something we already have, thats not a program at all... TREATMENT and THERAPY for people who need it, not those who do not, and its only lock-in as long as is absolutely necessary for the childs safety, not becuase a program, parent, or some idiot staffer said so, without isolation from the outside world, captivity, or abuse.
AKA, a fucking mental hospital.
A parent can manipulate their child into a mental hospital pretty easily too, it happened to me. My parent called the cops and said I kept talking about suicide, which wasn't true, and they handcuffed me and took me to county mental health lockup, after a couple days I was transfered to another lockdown mental hospital for adolescents and spent a couple weeks there against my will. Isolation, captivity and abuse happen in psychiatric hospitals as well, and they pump you full of drugs as well, which I now consider a form of abuse (giving anti-psychotics to teenagers just to calm them down, this is chemical restraint). I've been in isolation cells in psychiatric hospitals as well as programs. The only difference between psychiatric lockdowns and programs is you have access to advocacy while in psychiatric hospital. But it's pretty limited, and it's definitely not a safe haven against abuse or anything like that. Any lockdown situation where a kid doesn't want to be there is going to get ugly, IMO. In my own experience, I would choose a psychiatric hospital over a program anyday of thee week... but honestly if I had a kid I would desperately avoid both...after having experienced and witnessed it myself.
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The psychiatric hospital I was in, I believe it was in Orem, or Provo, Utah???? Was actually a nice place to be. I was sent there after cutting on myself, and for anorexia while at Heritage. Everybody was so nice. You had 1 floor of teens, one side girls the other boys. Within a few days I was running the group therapy sesssions. I was drinking a lot of ensure to get my weight back up. They would weigh me daily with my back to the numbers. If I didn't want to participate in something, I didn't. I had the freedom of going back and forth to my room.
I was bummed when I returned to Heritage, even more bummed when I was picked up by Karr Farnsworth, and Bob Lichfield and transported to Cross Creek.
That's the way it goes!
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Seems Isabelle has edited her original promotional ad for PURE. Here's the new and improved one:
CAICA knows the importance of warning parents against abusive programs. We also realize parents need options. Looking for help for your child can be daunting, at best. Sue Scheff and Marie Peart at P.U.R.E., know the industry well and have been helping parents to find safe alternatives and options for their teens and children for seven years, providing them with tools and resources. You can reach them at www.helpyourteens.com (http://www.helpyourteens.com), 866-798-2285.
----------------
Seems Isabelle has a very select memory or a bad case of amnesia.
Sue Scheff continued to refer to WWASPS after she started PURE.
That's a fact that can be found in the WWASPS v. PURE transcripts.
Additionally, Marie and Sue both worked for WWASPS in the past.
And Marie Peart has her own website in addition to now working for PURE.
http://www.parentandteenresources.com (http://www.parentandteenresources.com)
Buyer Beware!
Isabelle may like to call herself a child advocate, but promoting unregulated programs and referral services while at the same time exploiting the deaths of children in abusive facilties makes her part of the problem, not the solution.
Nice touch adding the phone number. Wouldn't want to inconvenience those "desperate" parents or make it difficult for them to send their children to a program that pays a finder's fees to outfits like PURE.
Oh and by the way. What are the names of these safe programs you promote through your endorsement of PURE, Isabelle?
We are still waiting for an answer.
:roll:
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You'll be waiting a long time for that answer I am afraid! What I want to know is how they choose their programs to refer kids to? Do they go there and investigate them themselves, or is it merely who ever pays them the most money for a referal fee gets their stamp of approval? No disrespect towards them, or anyone in the business. But, I am curious.
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oopsy that was me!!!
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Yeah, looks like Isabelle deleted the word "recommend" from her PURE plug. Wonder why? :rofl:
As for PURE, since they don't name the programs they promote, one could presume they are afraid parents will simply contact the programs themselves - thereby cutting out the middle man? Or maybe they are afraid of competition? From other referral outfits? Who the hell knows. The referral business is as unregulated as the teen help business is. It's a racket, IMO. Anybody can be one. No experience or education necessary.
:
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You know what I'm curious about?
How many kids did Sue Scheff refer to WWASPS programs during the time she worked for them?
And what happened with her lawsuit against the WWASPS program her own child was in? Nobody ever seems to want to talk about that but didn't Sue "sue" CSA and if so, did she prevail in her lawsuit?
:question:
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I'd like to know that too.
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Forget that; I'd like to know what Sue's wearing right now..
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What is the obsession, who the hell cares anyway? She won in court twice against WWASPS, isn't that good enough for any of you? I'd like to see how you would fare if you were sued by them. Got a spare million to fight against them, cause that's what it cost her insurance company. It's old news already, why don't you people focus on doing something to help the kids instead of wasting all this time. It makes no sense.
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We are trying to help kids. We're warning their parents about unscrupulous, greedy bitches like Sue Scheff who will sell their souls for a price.
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I think your focused way too much on this - what about the ed cons that are sending kids to WWASPS every single day - making $50,000 a month doing it. What's up, why isn't everyone warning against them? What about all the other programs, the ed cons, there are tons and tons of them.
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Yes, WWASPS is bad. Doesn't mean Sue/PURE is good. They're not. Two sides of the same fucking coin. Quit trying to find Sue disciples here. She's a greedy fucking bitch with a perverted savior complex.
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Yes, WWASPS is bad. Doesn't mean Sue/PURE is good. They're not. Two sides of the same fucking coin. Quit trying to find Sue disciples here. She's a greedy fucking bitch with a perverted savior complex.
Isnt this why this thread started? Didn't the dude say to start the Sue Sheff message board so we can talk about this only and not about programs taht have nothin to do with sue scheff. :-?
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We are trying to help kids. We're warning their parents about unscrupulous, greedy bitches like Sue Scheff who will sell their souls for a price.
Not exactly twice Isabelle...............................................From the Court
"The Court found that defendants PURE and Sue Scheff, ?[C]ompete with the schools associated with World Wide. PURE schools pay Ms. Scheff a substantial sum whenever a child enrolls in its program based on her recommendation.? . . . . In contrast, although winning the defense, Ms. Scheff and PURE lost on all counter-claims against WWASP."
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Yep. I think its clear. We need to smoke 'er out.
George W.
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We are trying to help kids. We're warning their parents about unscrupulous, greedy bitches like Sue Scheff who will sell their souls for a price.
Not exactly twice Isabelle...............................................From the Court
"The Court found that defendants PURE and Sue Scheff, ?[C]ompete with the schools associated with World Wide. PURE schools pay Ms. Scheff a substantial sum whenever a child enrolls in its program based on her recommendation.? . . . . In contrast, although winning the defense, Ms. Scheff and PURE lost on all counter-claims against WWASP."
Oh, okay I get it now. Do you mean this covers her daughters claim of abuse at Carolina Springs Academy? Is that what you mean by her counterclaim? Can someone explain? And what is PACER? Is it free? Someone told me you can get court information from it.
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Forget that; I'd like to know what Sue's wearing right now..
Dude have you seen the Google download with her on it. She called herself a goddess. Someone on here called her, yea, a RAT FACE GODDESS. Dude you are sick.
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Forget that; I'd like to know what Sue's wearing right now..
Dude have you seen the Google download with her on it. She called herself a goddess. Someone on here called her, yea, a RAT FACE GODDESS. Dude you are sick.
No I haven't seen it! I know I am; only Sue can help me!
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Forget that; I'd like to know what Sue's wearing right now..
Dude have you seen the Google download with her on it. She called herself a goddess. Someone on here called her, yea, a RAT FACE GODDESS. Dude you are sick.
Link, please.
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CCM, I have just a few questions for you. And no, Im not attacking you.
- What defines a good program?
- How can a program be 'good', but still be... a program?
- How do you justify lock-in forced 'treatment' if nothing if they dont justify for in-patient treatment in a psychiatric hospital morally, and ethically?
- How can you ethically force treatment on a kid and make it effective?
- How do you defend the fact that not one program has ever proven its efficacy and that all programs we've seen here boil down to nothing more than isolation and coersion with the intent of creating a regression and a euphoric feeling after the regression so they're easier to indoctrinate, aka "brainwash", dont provide therapy, dont provide any lasting 'fixes', and leave them more messed up than they went in.
Or, gimme the cliffs notes on how a program can still be a program but not abuse them, not lock them up, not isolate them from family and friends and legal representation, and not fuck them up socially and hurt them deeply psycholgoically, but still actually be effective at all... especially when you cant FORCE therapy on anyone, programs only 'work' by breaking them down, and the medical profession has committed itself to "minimal control and discomfort" in treatment - if theyre not a danger to themselves or others, they're not locked up, basically.
You cant MAKE a kid change without resorting to mind control, so what are you saying, that there are some forms of coersion that are ok, and some that are not?
This isnt intended to be an attack or affront at you, just asking you to think about what you say and try to come to terms with the facts about what makes a "program" a "program" and not a "school for kids with problems and/or bad parents who want to ditch them".
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I think your focused way too much on this - what about the ed cons that are sending kids to WWASPS every single day - making $50,000 a month doing it. What's up, why isn't everyone warning against them? What about all the other programs, the ed cons, there are tons and tons of them.
great point, i'd love to learn more about these high-dollar referers... anybody got any links? or names or anything? thanks!
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http://www.helpyourteens.com/ (http://www.helpyourteens.com/)
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http://www.helpyourteens.com/
thanks!
i was checking this site out and within a minute i was laughing my head off..
Does your teen have Entitlement Issues?
Does your teen expect more from you than they have earned or deserve?
Many parents only want the best for their children (usually more than they had growing up), but has this actually backfired on families?
In today's society many teens have major entitlement issues. Many parents feel that giving their teen's material items will somehow earn them respect. Quite frankly, the opposite occurs in most families. The more we give, the more our children expect and the less they respect us. We literally lose ourselves in buying our children's love. At the end of the day, no one wins and life is a constant battle of anger, hopelessness, and debt.
While interviewing a young teen, she was recently given a new car - brand new - felt she deserved it since her parents gave her two used ones previously. She is only 17 years old and already controlling her household and believes she was entitled to this car. She shows no appreciation or respect to her parents. Simply, she deserved it. Can you imagine owning 3 cars by the age of 17, yet never buying one? This is an extreme example, but I am sure many parents can relate.
Entitlement issues can lead to serious problems. Teaching your child respect and responsibility should be priority. Although the issues may have started to escalate, as a parent, it is never too late to take control of the situation and say "no" when your teen feels they are entitled to a frivolous item or anything that is considered a privilege.
Life is about responsibility, as parents we need to teach our children responsibility - helping our children comes natural to us, however when it becomes excessive and the child doesn't appreciate it, it is time to step back and evaluate your situation.
So.. solve your kids 'entitlement issues' (wouldn't that really be the parents issue, since they are the ones who both initiated and continued to spoil their child?) by sending them off to a super-expensive private prison for a year or two? This advice sounds like punishing the kid for the parents mistake? The author of this is asking why the daughter feels she deserves three cars.. why do you think?!
Look at all these other 'issues'.. does locking a kid up in a program supposed to help these things?
Teen Internet Addiction
Teen Suicide (shouldn't psychiatrists and professionals be handling suicidal kids? because they could off themselves in a program pretty easily!)
Underachiever, Lacks Motivation (:roll: )
Peer Pressure (?)
Teen Cults (what like joining an organization that abuses kids and brainwashes them for profit?.. how ironic for them to mention this one)
Adoption (nothing like solving 'adoption issues' by getting rid of your kid)
This shit is a fucking joke. It sounds a lot like WWASPS, but a bit more sophisticated. I used to laugh at how simple and non user friendly the WWASPS and other program's websites were but now it's clear that they don't even need to market because they got these slicksters out there doing a much better job.
interesting part..
Why Use a Transport Service?
Transport Services, also known as Escort Services, are usually a last resort for parents to transport their teens to programs. Being a last resort doesn't mean it is a negative choice. Using a qualified professional can be a good experience for a teen.
Some teens are willing to get help, others will go under false pretense, and then there is the need for escorting.
Since Escorting your teen can be a difficult decision, it is very important to choose qualified and credentialed professionals for your teen. The Escort Services listed below are fully licensed to transport teens and also have various degrees and/or background in Education, Psychology, Behavioral Science, Mental Health or other related fields. These are professionals! You are welcome to ask them to fax you their credentials.
Escorting your teen can be a very good experience with the right professional.
Absolutely disgusting!! A good experience for a teen? :evil: what bullshit. i love the part about 'false pretense'.. why don't you just call it what it is... a lie!! (you know one of those 'issues' you are sending your kid away for!?)
so how much does PURE make from sending kids away? anybody know how much they are making $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$?????????
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i can't find the prices they charge on the website, in one point it says the service is free to parents. is that true? how does pure make money, do they only refer to programs who pay them a referal fee, or do they charge the parents directly? i remember my parent telling me something about them offering a free month or thousand dollars at wwasps if they got another kid. im pretty sure my parent even got a friend of his to send their kid. fucked up shit... probably because he did it to get me a free month. this referal shit is so corrupt i want to puke.
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yeah, that's one of their gimmicks. the parents don't pay the fee, the SCHOOL pays Sue her blood money. She won't divulge the programs she refers to nor the amounts she's paid. We've all asked.
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yeah, that's one of their gimmicks. the parents don't pay the fee, the SCHOOL pays Sue her blood money. She won't divulge the programs she refers to nor the amounts she's paid. We've all asked.
(http://http://www.jerriblank.com/colbert_tvguide.jpg)
sounds like they need a lesson in truthiness.
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:rofl: :rofl:
We need a video clip of him tearing his glasses off.
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8. How is P.U.R.E. funded?
P.U.R.E. is funded by several schools and programs as well as private funding. We are part of a pro-active community in getting our children the help they may need. Our community recognizes that our children are the future. Our motto is: Bringing families back together?
whomever authored this site must be having fun in bizarro world. they are very slick with their words, they should give wwasps some lessons in marketing. ::noway::
"bringing families back together"... reminds me of the statement 'burning down the village to save it'... not sure how people can think and say these things with a straight face.
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they are very slick with their words, they should give wwasps some lessons in marketing.
Sue studied under WWASPS. Took what seemed to rope parents in, changed a little of the wording to appear the 'kinder, gentler' form of BM and proclaimed herself the savior of children. :roll:
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http://www.helpyourteens.com/what_can_w ... r_you.html (http://www.helpyourteens.com/what_can_we_do_for_you.html)
Need help in making the right decision on how to best help your child? Click here to get an answer from a Parent Consultant. Go ahead, our service is no cost to you! We are here to help.
WTF is a parent consultant?
::puke::
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she needs wwasps and similar programs to exist. she is making her living off of the fear parents have of sending their kid to abusive programs, then hypocritically sending them off to almost identical programs. it seems no different than wwasps using parents fear of 'deadorinjail'... except she has two selling points.. the whole 'deadorjail', the 'entitlment' and other issue bullshit AND the fear of picking the wrong program. pretty ingenious setup she has there if you ask me. seriously though, websters should take a screen shot of the pure website and put it under their definition for hypocrisy.
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from pure website
Teen Suicide is very real. Some at risk teens feel so hopeless.
Most do not actually complete suicide, however certainly have very strong thoughts and feelings about it. This needs to be addressed immediately. There can be so many factors leading up to this. School peers (teen peer pressure) can be brutal without even knowing it.
A person can say something innocent and the teen takes it completely out of context. The feeling of rejection, either by a boyfriend/girlfriend or their own peers can be devastating to a teen. The teen most likely, lacks the self- esteem and confidence to realize they are special and important. When this happens the teen can experience feelings of depression and can lead to becoming a struggling teen.
Sometimes we have seen a family going through some very difficult times, and the child actually takes on the blame and the guilt. This can be so overwhelming to a child and they feel at a loss. If you suspect your child is suicidal, please get help immediately. They may need a residential program, again one that offers positive peer culture and can offer the help they need. They need to build up their character to a higher sense of self worth. Teen Suicide thoughts are to be taken extremely seriously.
just couldn't leave that bold part out could they? they take probably the most serious issue a parent can deal with, a child killing themsleves, and completely trivialize it and use it to sell their service for profit. so does pure really believe if a kid is talking about suicide you should contact them and have them refer the kid to a program? really? have they talked to psychologists about this theory, are any of them educated in dealing with teenagers who are at risk of killing themsleves? its not a joke, suicide is a leading cause of death for teenagers, so you think they would take this little more seriously. instead of saying seek help immediately at your local hospital or care provider they put in their slickster backward speak again. im blown away by the callousness and overall disregard for the health of kids by shit like this. its already bad enough to convince parents with kids who have no big problems to send their kid away, but its a whole new level of evil when you are siphoning off kids with seriously life threatening problems from legitimate treatment options to have them wharehoused in a completely innapropriate environment. how can they seriously sell the same solution for two problems as diverse as 'Entitlement Issues' (spoiled by parents) and a teen talking about killing themselves... i don't know how one could reconcile this within their own soul... i for one would not be able to sleep at night giving paid advice to suicidal kids parents with absolutely no training and experience, but thats just me.
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CCM, I have just a few questions for you. And no, Im not attacking you.
- What defines a good program?
- How can a program be 'good', but still be... a program?
- How do you justify lock-in forced 'treatment' if nothing if they dont justify for in-patient treatment in a psychiatric hospital morally, and ethically?
- How can you ethically force treatment on a kid and make it effective?
- How do you defend the fact that not one program has ever proven its efficacy and that all programs we've seen here boil down to nothing more than isolation and coersion with the intent of creating a regression and a euphoric feeling after the regression so they're easier to indoctrinate, aka "brainwash", dont provide therapy, dont provide any lasting 'fixes', and leave them more messed up than they went in.
Or, gimme the cliffs notes on how a program can still be a program but not abuse them, not lock them up, not isolate them from family and friends and legal representation, and not fuck them up socially and hurt them deeply psycholgoically, but still actually be effective at all... especially when you cant FORCE therapy on anyone, programs only 'work' by breaking them down, and the medical profession has committed itself to "minimal control and discomfort" in treatment - if theyre not a danger to themselves or others, they're not locked up, basically.
You cant MAKE a kid change without resorting to mind control, so what are you saying, that there are some forms of coersion that are ok, and some that are not?
This isnt intended to be an attack or affront at you, just asking you to think about what you say and try to come to terms with the facts about what makes a "program" a "program" and not a "school for kids with problems and/or bad parents who want to ditch them".
A good program starts at the top with the people who create it, they need to be of healthy mind and spirit. A good program has good people working for it some who have degrees in psychology, others who might not but atleast provide adequate training in how to handle teens that have issues. These schools cannot be overcrowded, 4 kids per room. They need to have rules, boundries, and limitations set in place, but reasonable ones so it's not a constant form of being able to punish them. With all the money they receive for housing these kids, there should be ammenities such as swimming, an athletic field, and some type of activity that includes animals. Every kid is different, but there needs to be things that stimulate their minds, body, and souls. Therapy is always good. You'll find that most kids want to talk about there feelings. I maybe only saw a couple times where kids actually refused therapy. Hey, they should have that option, and therapy shouldn't be forced. With kids, you need to be patience.
Programs don't need to be toughlove to be effective. These kids don't need to be pushed around, and told what to do. Sorry, I know there are some parents out there that failed as parents, but is it your kids fault? No, it's not. Programs should be built out of love not hate. Kids should be encouraged by being healthy they will get further in life. You don't need to program a kid, and cram it down their throat, for them to get it. You show them how to succeed in life, and give them the tools to do it, if they choose not to take those tools fine, but later on down the rode they might. If you force kids you will get some who may take the tools, but most will either pretend to take them, or out of pure rebellious behaivor throw them in your face. You have to remember that teens are mini-adults. Do you like things being crammed down your throat? I sure the hell don't, and I doubt those of you reading this do either. Well, it's kinda like that. If somebody points something out to me that I am not doing right, or they have a better more efficent way of doing it, I will take the time to listen to them, and think about what they had to say, and perhaps change my ways. But, if somebody tries to force me to do it their way, and tells me how I was doing it all wrong blah, blah, blah.......I'm going to be like screw you buddy!!!!
As far as lockdown treatment is concerned, there needs to be valid reasons for doing this. I wouldn't be able to justify programs that force treatment upon kids.
You can not ethically force treatment on anyone, and why would you want to? It takes the credit out of the kids hands for being able to finally see themselves going down the wrong path of life and deciding to do something about it on their own, and puts credit into somebody elses hands whether it be the parents, the therapists, or program directors/owners.
The programs we focus on here at Fornits have very little efficiency because of how screwed up they are in their structure. That's why we talk about them. There are good programs out there. But, it's not any of the ones mentioned here. I don't have anything to do with Fornits, besides posting here. But, look at it like a small parking lot with reserved spaces for programs who like to intimidate, brainwash, punish, abuse, falsley represent themselves, lie to parents, lie to kids, have hidden agendas, force their religious beliefs on children, practice cult like techniques for mind control and reprogramming. Look, I could go on forever and forever.
I'm running out of steam here. I don't know what you want from me? I hope I have answered most of your questions. Excuse me while I go grab some coffee.
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I've been reading these posts for some time on Sue Scheff and I have something to say. I believe I even spoke with her once about two years ago in researching a story. I've read her website and that of her competitors.
Look here, Loves. It's quite clear that Ms. Scheff is not qualified to refer parents to a dog kennel nor are her competitors.
Scheff has given herself a bit of a reputation in the U.S. among advocates. Is that not correct?
It's also quite clear that she does absolutely take the parents' money, but indirectly. She has the parents pay the extra money to the program and she and the program funnel it back to the old girl. This is not complicated. It's like a bit of money laundering, that's all. Quite witty for a person with no education.
Scheff says she is "parents helping parents" but it's rather obvious that she is the only one and a partner or two. You'd think this PURE was a group of parents who had kids in the programs, but they are just like every other parents. The point is this PURE and its founder, Scheff, are not exactly truthful blogs now are they?
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Try finding out about Jane Hawley - she makes $50k a month, I've heard, referring kids to abusive WWASPS programs. Tons of parents do it as well, the form support groups and lurk around wherever they can find parents complaining about their teens. And then they tell them about this wonderful program that will "fix" their kids. Only WWASPS - well -
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Try finding out about Jane Hawley - she makes $50k a month, I've heard, referring kids to abusive WWASPS programs. Tons of parents do it as well, the form support groups and lurk around wherever they can find parents complaining about their teens. And then they tell them about this wonderful program that will "fix" their kids. Only WWASPS - well -
Yes, Love, but are we not speaking of Sue Scheff? I don't understand. Are we a bit side stepping the topic here?
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interesting.... found this website for jane http://www.teenlifelines.com/ (http://www.teenlifelines.com/)
september's featured schools... all wwasps .. surprise, surprise! :roll:
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Where is the video of Sue referring to herself as a goddess?
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Where is the video of Sue referring to herself as a goddess?
It is not on the video over here. It is on another thread. The mum is calling herself a "goddess" while talking in the 3rd person. Odd thing isn't she? The next post is someone responding to her and calling her the "Rat Faced."
"Sue Scheff is a goddess! She can do wrong!"
"This is sue scheff talking about herself but in reality she is the "RAT FACED GODESS OF LIES"
Yea your a goddess alright. you and izzy are the twin goddesses of deceipt. Yer both so cute."
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So you're telling me there IS no VIDEO???? Fuck!
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CCM, I have just a few questions for you. And no, Im not attacking you.
- What defines a good program?
- How can a program be 'good', but still be... a program?
- How do you justify lock-in forced 'treatment' if nothing if they dont justify for in-patient treatment in a psychiatric hospital morally, and ethically?
- How can you ethically force treatment on a kid and make it effective?
- How do you defend the fact that not one program has ever proven its efficacy and that all programs we've seen here boil down to nothing more than isolation and coersion with the intent of creating a regression and a euphoric feeling after the regression so they're easier to indoctrinate, aka "brainwash", dont provide therapy, dont provide any lasting 'fixes', and leave them more messed up than they went in.
Or, gimme the cliffs notes on how a program can still be a program but not abuse them, not lock them up, not isolate them from family and friends and legal representation, and not fuck them up socially and hurt them deeply psycholgoically, but still actually be effective at all... especially when you cant FORCE therapy on anyone, programs only 'work' by breaking them down, and the medical profession has committed itself to "minimal control and discomfort" in treatment - if theyre not a danger to themselves or others, they're not locked up, basically.
You cant MAKE a kid change without resorting to mind control, so what are you saying, that there are some forms of coersion that are ok, and some that are not?
This isnt intended to be an attack or affront at you, just asking you to think about what you say and try to come to terms with the facts about what makes a "program" a "program" and not a "school for kids with problems and/or bad parents who want to ditch them".
A good program starts at the top with the people who create it, they need to be of healthy mind and spirit. A good program has good people working for it some who have degrees in psychology, others who might not but atleast provide adequate training in how to handle teens that have issues. These schools cannot be overcrowded, 4 kids per room. They need to have rules, boundries, and limitations set in place, but reasonable ones so it's not a constant form of being able to punish them. With all the money they receive for housing these kids, there should be ammenities such as swimming, an athletic field, and some type of activity that includes animals. Every kid is different, but there needs to be things that stimulate their minds, body, and souls. Therapy is always good. You'll find that most kids want to talk about there feelings. I maybe only saw a couple times where kids actually refused therapy. Hey, they should have that option, and therapy shouldn't be forced. With kids, I want you to be patience.
Programs don't need to be toughlove to be effective. These kids don't need to be pushed around, and told what to do. Sorry, I know there are some parents out there that failed as parents, but is it your kids fault? No, it's not. Programs should be built out of love not hate. Kids should be encouraged by being healthy they will get further in life. You don't need to program a kid, and cram it down their throat, for them to get it. You show them how to succeed in life, and give them the tools to do it, if they choose not to take those tools fine, but later on down the rode they might. If you force kids you will get some who may take the tools, but most will either pretend to take them, or out of pure rebellious behaivor throw them in your face. You have to remember that teens are mini-adults. Do you like things being crammed down your throat? I sure the hell don't, and I doubt those of you reading this do either. Well, it's kinda like that. If somebody points something out to me that I am not doing right, or they have a better more efficent way of doing it, I will take the time to listen to them, and think about what they had to say, and perhaps change my ways. But, if somebody tries to force me to do it their way, and tells me how I was doing it all wrong blah, blah, blah.......I'm going to be like screw you buddy!!!!
As far as lockdown treatment is concerned, there needs to be valid reasons for doing this. I wouldn't be able to justify programs that force treatment upon kids.
You can not ethically force treatment on anyone, and why would you want to? It takes the credit out of the kids hands for being able to finally see themselves going down the wrong path of life and deciding to do something about it on their own, and puts credit into somebody elses hands whether it be the parents, the therapists, or program directors/owners.
The programs we focus on here at Fornits have very little efficiency because of how screwed up they are in their structure. That's why we talk about them. There are good programs out there. But, it's not any of the ones mentioned here. I don't have anything to do with Fornits, besides posting here. But, look at it like a small parking lot with reserved spaces for programs who like to intimidate, brainwash, punish, abuse, falsley represent themselves, lie to parents, lie to kids, have hidden agendas, force their religious beliefs on children, practice cult like techniques for mind control and reprogramming. Look, I could go on forever and forever.
I'm running out of steam here. I don't know what you want from me? I hope I have answered most of your questions. Excuse me while I go grab some coffee.
CCM, you're forgetting a few things.
1. Who is to decide if they should go? If they should stay? The Medical guidelines for being forced to stay somewhere is only if they need it... if you cant force it, then you have to let them go, otherwise you're forcing it! It is a catch-22! How do you keep them there?
2. Institutionalizing someone in some 'magical school/program/hogwarts' really has little basis in reality, Im sorry to say. You're ripping them from their environment... all thier comfort, their hobbies, friends, family, romantic interests, familiarity, is GONE, and is now provided to them by an insitution, and theyre isolated from the world becuase they're inside of it. People who remove kids from abusive home environments who work for social services often say that doing that to them is often worse tahn any benefit given by removing them from an abusive parent! But this isnt just a foster home, this is an INSTITUTION!
3. How do you replace the normal growth and development someone gets where theyre free to socialize and go out and do shit after school around an actual, real community without walls and fences, in an institution? That element is STILL THERE, even if they have access to the outside world via computers or phones or mail, unless its just a case of schooling and boarding.
4. What if they're recalcitrant to the program? What if nothing is actually wrong with them? And what if something IS wrong, but they dont want to 'work the program'?
5. What "rules, boundaries, and consequences" without outright torture and coersion... why would you want any more than what people get normally, anyway, exactly? What if theyre not violent, but simply dont want to 'work the program'?
Im not against your ideas, but in practicality it kind of falls apart - and there are more than a few things an institution simply can not provide - freedom, first of all.
If their parents just dont want them or their relationship is so strained its torture for the kid, some sort of 'halfway house' thats not coersive seems like a good idea, IMHO. The point is to help them function in a free, open society, not have to live in an institution and try to make it some "magical place" cut off from the outside world and forced to spill their beans to therapists on cue and repeat canned phrases... which is what happens in institutions.
Im not trying to bust your balls or rain on your parade here, but IMHO the crux of the problem is that its an institution in the first place and that ultimately there is coersion... and that the kid is taking the blame for failed parenting - that, and if they're a teenager, they need to learn how to stand on their own two feet anyway, not "grow" and "thrive" *BARF* in some 'environment' thats 'structured'. Unless they plan on being a career military guy, anyway.
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CCM, I have just a few questions for you. And no, Im not attacking you.
- What defines a good program?
- How can a program be 'good', but still be... a program?
- How do you justify lock-in forced 'treatment' if nothing if they dont justify for in-patient treatment in a psychiatric hospital morally, and ethically?
- How can you ethically force treatment on a kid and make it effective?
- How do you defend the fact that not one program has ever proven its efficacy and that all programs we've seen here boil down to nothing more than isolation and coersion with the intent of creating a regression and a euphoric feeling after the regression so they're easier to indoctrinate, aka "brainwash", dont provide therapy, dont provide any lasting 'fixes', and leave them more messed up than they went in.
Or, gimme the cliffs notes on how a program can still be a program but not abuse them, not lock them up, not isolate them from family and friends and legal representation, and not fuck them up socially and hurt them deeply psycholgoically, but still actually be effective at all... especially when you cant FORCE therapy on anyone, programs only 'work' by breaking them down, and the medical profession has committed itself to "minimal control and discomfort" in treatment - if theyre not a danger to themselves or others, they're not locked up, basically.
You cant MAKE a kid change without resorting to mind control, so what are you saying, that there are some forms of coersion that are ok, and some that are not?
This isnt intended to be an attack or affront at you, just asking you to think about what you say and try to come to terms with the facts about what makes a "program" a "program" and not a "school for kids with problems and/or bad parents who want to ditch them".
A good program starts at the top with the people who create it, they need to be of healthy mind and spirit. A good program has good people working for it some who have degrees in psychology, others who might not but atleast provide adequate training in how to handle teens that have issues. These schools cannot be overcrowded, 4 kids per room. They need to have rules, boundries, and limitations set in place, but reasonable ones so it's not a constant form of being able to punish them. With all the money they receive for housing these kids, there should be ammenities such as swimming, an athletic field, and some type of activity that includes animals. Every kid is different, but there needs to be things that stimulate their minds, body, and souls. Therapy is always good. You'll find that most kids want to talk about there feelings. I maybe only saw a couple times where kids actually refused therapy. Hey, they should have that option, and therapy shouldn't be forced. With kids, I want you to be patience.
Programs don't need to be toughlove to be effective. These kids don't need to be pushed around, and told what to do. Sorry, I know there are some parents out there that failed as parents, but is it your kids fault? No, it's not. Programs should be built out of love not hate. Kids should be encouraged by being healthy they will get further in life. You don't need to program a kid, and cram it down their throat, for them to get it. You show them how to succeed in life, and give them the tools to do it, if they choose not to take those tools fine, but later on down the rode they might. If you force kids you will get some who may take the tools, but most will either pretend to take them, or out of pure rebellious behaivor throw them in your face. You have to remember that teens are mini-adults. Do you like things being crammed down your throat? I sure the hell don't, and I doubt those of you reading this do either. Well, it's kinda like that. If somebody points something out to me that I am not doing right, or they have a better more efficent way of doing it, I will take the time to listen to them, and think about what they had to say, and perhaps change my ways. But, if somebody tries to force me to do it their way, and tells me how I was doing it all wrong blah, blah, blah.......I'm going to be like screw you buddy!!!!
As far as lockdown treatment is concerned, there needs to be valid reasons for doing this. I wouldn't be able to justify programs that force treatment upon kids.
You can not ethically force treatment on anyone, and why would you want to? It takes the credit out of the kids hands for being able to finally see themselves going down the wrong path of life and deciding to do something about it on their own, and puts credit into somebody elses hands whether it be the parents, the therapists, or program directors/owners.
The programs we focus on here at Fornits have very little efficiency because of how screwed up they are in their structure. That's why we talk about them. There are good programs out there. But, it's not any of the ones mentioned here. I don't have anything to do with Fornits, besides posting here. But, look at it like a small parking lot with reserved spaces for programs who like to intimidate, brainwash, punish, abuse, falsley represent themselves, lie to parents, lie to kids, have hidden agendas, force their religious beliefs on children, practice cult like techniques for mind control and reprogramming. Look, I could go on forever and forever.
I'm running out of steam here. I don't know what you want from me? I hope I have answered most of your questions. Excuse me while I go grab some coffee.
CCM, you're forgetting a few things.
1. Who is to decide if they should go? If they should stay? The Medical guidelines for being forced to stay somewhere is only if they need it... if you cant force it, then you have to let them go, otherwise you're forcing it! It is a catch-22! How do you keep them there?
2. Institutionalizing someone in some 'magical school/program/hogwarts' really has little basis in reality, Im sorry to say. You're ripping them from their environment... all thier comfort, their hobbies, friends, family, romantic interests, familiarity, is GONE, and is now provided to them by an insitution, and theyre isolated from the world becuase they're inside of it. People who remove kids from abusive home environments who work for social services often say that doing that to them is often worse tahn any benefit given by removing them from an abusive parent! But this isnt just a foster home, this is an INSTITUTION!
3. How do you replace the normal growth and development someone gets where theyre free to socialize and go out and do shit after school around an actual, real community without walls and fences, in an institution? That element is STILL THERE, even if they have access to the outside world via computers or phones or mail, unless its just a case of schooling and boarding.
4. What if they're recalcitrant to the program? What if nothing is actually wrong with them? And what if something IS wrong, but they dont want to 'work the program'?
5. What "rules, boundaries, and consequences" without outright torture and coersion... why would you want any more than what people get normally, anyway, exactly? What if theyre not violent, but simply dont want to 'work the program'?
Im not against your ideas, but in practicality it kind of falls apart - and there are more than a few things an institution simply can not provide - freedom, first of all.
If their parents just dont want them or their relationship is so
strained its torture for the kid, some sort of 'halfway house' thats not coersive seems like a good idea, IMHO. The point is to help them function in a free, open society, not have to live in an institution and try to make it some "magical place" cut off from the outside world and forced to spill their beans to therapists on cue and repeat canned phrases... which is what happens in institutions.
Im not trying to bust your balls or rain on your parade here, but IMHO the crux of the problem is that its an institution in the first place and that ultimately there is coersion... and that the kid is taking the blame for failed parenting - that, and if they're a teenager, they need to learn how to stand on their own two feet anyway, not "grow" and "thrive" *BARF* in some 'environment' thats 'structured'. Unless they plan on being a career military guy, anyway.
Niles,
I'm sorry but your statement in paragraph 2 is ridiculous. The one about people who work for social services that remove kids from abusive homes is causing them more harm then good. What?!! Are you kidding me! Who said that? That's pretty twisted.
Parents don't have to be parents if they don't want to be anymore. We have a lot of selfish people that should've never had kids in the first place. Kids sense this, that's the beginning of their problems. Parents will always have the option of sending them away. There are some programs that are better then others. I don't care if people rip kids from their enviroment or comfort quite frankly. Because, take this from someone who had an alcoholic Mother, I was 5 and wandering on the beach late at night making forts and such. This was in Long Beach, CA. not the most safest place in the world. My Dad fought long and hard to get custody of me, it was my step-bitch Mom who didn't want me. At the age of 11 after putting up with her bullshit for 6 years I told her and my Dad I want to live with my Mother. So, off I went back to my Mom's where I had little to no supervision, was lost in my own world wandering the downtown into the wee hours while she was parked at the local bar. I was getting into trouble, and nobody cared. I'm lucky I didn't end up dead. It wasn't until my Mom was really high on drugs one night and I was running a 104 temperature she called the paramedics and they took us both to the hospital. I ended up getting picked up by social services, and taken back to my Dad's, she ended up in a mental hospital for a couple weeks for evaluation. In one years time I was unrecognizable. The woman from social services started pushing me in the door at my Dad's, as they were pushing me out (they thought I was one of my friends). I had bleached my hair almost white, and was thin as a rail. I will never forget the words out of their mouths once the recognized me.
She can't stay here. We don't want her. We told her if she were to go live with her Mom she could never come back. Well, in the next couple weeks they drug me around to different psych hospitals in the area, none of them would take me. It wasn't until they had contacted Heritage School that somebody would take somebody as young as me 12. They kept their promise, I was never going to return home. So, I bounced from Heritage to Cross Creek to St. George when I ran away and lived on my own. It wasn't fun. I had three options since I had no job experience. Work at a old folkes home, be a hotel maid, or flip burgers.
I had volunteered at an old folks home through Heritages Program years back, so how bad could it be? Well, lets just say it was awful. I was in charge of bathing old people who would always shit themselves in the shower. That's why they sit them on one of those rolling toilet seats. I have seen more wrinkled genitals then most people on here have, so enjoy it while you got it folkes! I quit after I was forced to brush a dead womans teeth before her family came to visit her, I had saved this womans life when I heard her choking in her sleep a week prior a little much for a 16 year old girl don't you think?
Next job, I was a hotel maid, What a horrible maid I was! While other toothless women in there 40's were kicking my ass by completing 25 rooms compared to my 15. I was soon fired. Look, lifes not easy. For some of these kids they would prefer to be in a nuturing enviroment as oppossed to living on their own. It's not easy. Don't kid yourself. Thank god my parents agreed to give me a small amount of money per month that barely covered my rent, and top ramen.
Anyway, Niles........I don't have the answers for all your questions. But, kids aren't always at fault. It's the parents who truely can't be bothered or who don't have the skills to raise a teenager. So, I do believe that people can create programs for kids that will help them sort everything out. Sometimes that does need to be in a controlled enviroment. Sorry, but it does. With rules, yes. But, not more then any normal family would have.
I needed help, I got help. But, the kind of treatment I was in was meant for a year, maybe a year and a half? I should've been able to go to a real boarding school, not left to rot in these places. In the end after being there for as long as I was I believe it did more harm then good.
Places should be monitored. I wish the state would go in, and pull records 2 times a year and see how long these kids have been warehoused for. When it gets to be long periods of time they need to start asking questions. They need to talk directly to these kids. Half way houses should be an option, or foster homes. Kids should not be left to rot.
We have different views Niles. I am not sure what your past is like. I am not afraid to post what has happened in my life. If someone could take something, and learn from it, then I am happy for them. Hopefully they will avoid mistakes I have made, and my parents made. But, sometimes people need to make mistakes to grow. Hopefully not at their childrens expense though.
Bottom line, you cannot force parents to be parents. Also you can't emancipate kids at age 14. They do not have the skills, or the emotional/financial strength to make it. Look what is your solution to this big mess we have here? I'd like to know.
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You also cant replace a family, community, friends, and freedom with institutions.... thats the point Im trying to make!
Living in an instiution doesnt prepare you to live in a normal society as an adult and make your own decisions, just do as told. Surely you realize that, dont you?
Well, that and instiutions and foster parents have their own seperate ideas of how to parent and what a kid should and should not do, and thats never a 'good thing' for a kid to go through.
I was a computer nerd. I would have had idiots taking it away and forcing me to instead watch TV or read stupid old books or go outside. How is that good for me? Its them and their ideas that I have no say in being forced upon me, becuase a lot of parnets are just reactionary and dont know what to do except punish.
The other problem is you cant just force a bond with the people working at some program/foster home/hogwarts/whatever from the kids. Besides, as you put it, theyre adult in every way but legally: they need to learn how to get a job and do their own thing, not be regressed into obedience within a institutions "structure" and be post-pubescent children.
And, just to clarify, I wasnt saying it "did more harm than good" to remove them from abusive families. My point was it still did harm to remove them completely from their previous life and put them somewhere else - ESPECIALLY if its an institution.
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You also cant replace a family, community, friends, and freedom with institutions.... thats the point Im trying to make!
Living in an instiution doesnt prepare you to live in a normal society as an adult and make your own decisions, just do as told. Surely you realize that, dont you?
Well, that and instiutions and foster parents have their own seperate ideas of how to parent and what a kid should and should not do, and thats never a 'good thing' for a kid to go through.
I was a computer nerd. I would have had idiots taking it away and forcing me to instead watch TV or read stupid old books or go outside. How is that good for me? Its them and their ideas that I have no say in being forced upon me, becuase a lot of parnets are just reactionary and dont know what to do except punish.
The other problem is you cant just force a bond with the people working at some program/foster home/hogwarts/whatever from the kids. Besides, as you put it, theyre adult in every way but legally: they need to learn how to get a job and do their own thing, not be regressed into obedience within a institutions "structure" and be post-pubescent children.
And, just to clarify, I wasnt saying it "did more harm than good" to remove them from abusive families. My point was it still did harm to remove them completely from their previous life and put them somewhere else - ESPECIALLY if its an institution.
Niles, were you ever in a program? You can replace a family if you so desire. Friends become your family. Famlily isn't just family because there is blood relation. As far as communities go, people and their families move all the time and are forced to make new friends and adjust all the time. You just moved to Florida, I am sure you are out of your comfort zone, but hopefully you are able to adapt comfortably.
What do you mean that sometimes institutions and foster parents have their own seperate ideas of how to parent, and what a kid should do or not do, and that's never a good thing for kids to go through?!! I can't believe you say that!!!!!! Are you fucking kidding me Niles! I don't even know how to respond to that one?!!!! It's never a good thing because he's learning how to behave from someone other then his own flesh and blood? That's ridiculous.
Look, there are good programs, there are bad programs. You as parents, if you cannot and do not want to take on the responsibility to parent anymore, that's fine. But, in making that decision when you are deciding to send your flesh and blood away you better damn well make sure it is to a place that they are going to be well cared for. None of these split second decisions having them enrolled after seeing a few glossy brochures and talking to a slick sales person who doesn't know squat about the program except for what the program wants them to know. If you don't do investigating on your own, and ask the questions, and go out there and visit, then you are pathetic, and selfish, and cruel to not care about what happens to your child.
You should always be able to have phone conversations at anytime with your child, and they should be able to call you anytime they want. If kids are doing well enough, there should be a program, and there is in some places where it's called transition. You live with a family, and go to regular high school. You make new friends. In life I am constantly out of my comfort zone, by meeting new people, constantly interviewing for the perfect job. I keep my old friends too, but to remove a child from it's community isn't always a bad thing. In every move of my life i have always had the opportunity to recreate myself, and leave the past behind when moving. Eventually you learn, and don't make so many poor decisions.
Life isn't perfect, and kids shouldn't be left in a dysfunctional enviroment whether it's at home, or in an instituition or program. There are alternatives. Sitting back and doing nothing, and expecting the kids to make all the adjustments in a fucked up family is asinine.
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Look, there are good programs
::noway:: ::noway::
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Look, there are good programs
::noway:: ::noway::
I didn't say "they are good programs" as in WWASPS! I said there were good programs out in this world, and it's your job, and duty as parents to find them. Now if your saying there are no good programs anywhere then you must still be under the belief and notion that the world is not round, it is flat. Go sell that garbage to someone else.
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[
Look, there are good programs
::noway:: ::noway::
I didn't say "they are good programs" as in WWASPS! I said there were good programs out in this world, and it's your job, and duty as parents to find them. Now if your saying there are no good programs anywhere then you must still be under the belief and notion that the world is not round, it is flat. Go sell that garbage to someone else.
Back off little girl. I was in one and I'm a parent. It's my fucking opinion that there are NO GOOD PROGRAMS.
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You were in one what?!!! Back off little girl? Hahaha I'm 33 years old. You're a real dumbass ya know, and as far as you being a parent? Big deal, there are 12 year olds out there having babies.
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Niles, were you ever in a program? You can replace a family if you so desire. Friends become your family. Famlily isn't just family because there is blood relation. As far as communities go, people and their families move all the time and are forced to make new friends and adjust all the time. You just moved to Florida, I am sure you are out of your comfort zone, but hopefully you are able to adapt comfortably.
Please dont say 'comfort zone'. Im sick of the buzzwords... really sick of it! There is no intrinsic gain from "putting people out of their comfort zone" for the sake of it any more than thinking that suffering breeds personal growth blah blah blah. Not trying to yell at you, but it drives me up a fucking wall. I cant stand it. Same for "thrive in structured environment" and other glossy brocure-speak.
Anyway, the point is you cant just go "ok you have to love and respect and bond with these people becuase youre living in this institution now" and honestly expect people to do that. I dont like the idea of someone FORCING a bond or FORCING 'respect' or FORCING new arbitrary rules on me. Then again, I've never had a problem with starting shit, cleaning up after myself, and basic hygene anyway. I do know whenever someone ARBITRARILY institutes 'new rules' its rarely for a good reason and pisses me off.
And um the point isn't about taking shit away and "out of the comfort zone" to make them adapt and change and grow and thrive and BLAH BLAH BLAH all the time. I want stability, I dont want arbitrary authority doing this and that for no reason, and the thing is, I dont see the efficacy of it.
What do you mean that sometimes institutions and foster parents have their own seperate ideas of how to parent, and what a kid should do or not do, and that's never a good thing for kids to go through?!! I can't believe you say that!!!!!! Are you fucking kidding me Niles! I don't even know how to respond to that one?!!!! It's never a good thing because he's learning how to behave from someone other then his own flesh and blood? That's ridiculous.
Please rephrase that, becuase that didnt make any sense.
Look, there are good programs, there are bad programs. You as parents, if you cannot and do not want to take on the responsibility to parent anymore, that's fine. But, in making that decision when you are deciding to send your flesh and blood away you better damn well make sure it is to a place that they are going to be well cared for. None of these split second decisions having them enrolled after seeing a few glossy brochures and talking to a slick sales person who doesn't know squat about the program except for what the program wants them to know. If you don't do investigating on your own, and ask the questions, and go out there and visit, then you are pathetic, and selfish, and cruel to not care about what happens to your child.
Nobody can even define what a good program is, so how do you know any exist? Nobody can say that a program actually works, or how it works, or what necessitates being sent to one!
You should always be able to have phone conversations at anytime with your child, and they should be able to call you anytime they want. If kids are doing well enough, there should be a program, and there is in some places where it's called transition. You live with a family, and go to regular high school. You make new friends. In life I am constantly out of my comfort zone, by meeting new people, constantly interviewing for the perfect job. I keep my old friends too, but to remove a child from it's community isn't always a bad thing. In every move of my life i have always had the opportunity to recreate myself, and leave the past behind when moving. Eventually you learn, and don't make so many poor decisions.
Ok, so what exactly dictates when they should be institutionalized and put in a bubble world? What dictates when they can "Transition" inbetween towards the real world again? AND STOP FUCKING SAYING COMFORT ZONE. STOP USING BUZZWORDS!
Its not always a "bad thing" to take a kid out, but it will instigate stress, period, which is my point. Stress is not good! Stress is BAD! Stressing people is a great way to break them down and the tuff love idjits like to believe in it, but I try to AVOID stress. Ive had nothing BUT stress all of my adult life, and when I hear 'comfort zone' I want to dropkick the person who says it.
Life isn't perfect, and kids shouldn't be left in a dysfunctional enviroment whether it's at home, or in an instituition or program. There are alternatives. Sitting back and doing nothing, and expecting the kids to make all the adjustments in a fucked up family is asinine.
I know, I dont think its a good idea to let people sit in bad environemts either. My point is you should start letting them get jobs and take their own path, not shoving them into more obedience-training institutions. I have a friend who is 17, her dad and stepmom treat her like shit, they read her diary looking for evidence of using drugs and found her stepdad abused her, and are FORCING HER UNDER DURESS to press charges, bla bla bla. She gets good grades, and what do they do? BITCH ABOUT A B GRADE! Not ONE complement. Her stepmom also treats her daughter better than my friend.
Know what she needs? Her dad to stop making her quit jobs, and to go get and keep a fucking job, get her own place, finish her last few credits in highschool and go on with her life, not be put in some fucking institution. And you know what else? A LOT of kids are in that situation and a LOT of people need to grow upand stop being treated like little kids. Not some "good program".
The solution to everything isnt some fucking program or institution or 'place to be sent with 'structure' and taking you out of your comfort zone'. There isnt some magical good program somewhere that nobody can even start to define! Some people are ready to grow up and they need to grow up instead of being shoved back into obedience because someone thinks so but cant even define why!
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You were in one what?!!! Back off little girl? Hahaha I'm 33 years old. You're a real dumbass ya know, and as far as you being a parent? Big deal, there are 12 year olds out there having babies.
In a behavior modification facility. 33? Well, I got at least 10 years on ya.
Yes, there are 12 year olds out there having babies. Your solution is to lock them up?
Dumbass. :roll:
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You were in one what?!!! Back off little girl? Hahaha I'm 33 years old. You're a real dumbass ya know, and as far as you being a parent? Big deal, there are 12 year olds out there having babies.
Until you can define what a good program is, what it does, how it does it, and what necessitates being sent there, please dont even bring it up.
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You were in one what?!!! Back off little girl? Hahaha I'm 33 years old. You're a real dumbass ya know, and as far as you being a parent? Big deal, there are 12 year olds out there having babies.
In a behavior modification facility. 33? Well, I got at least 10 years on ya.
Yes, there are 12 year olds out there having babies. Your solution is to lock them up?
Dumbass. :roll:
For the record, I don't think you're a dumbass but ya pissed me off by calling me one. I've lived long enough, through long enough, raised some pretty terrific kids despite some unreal circumstances.
I have a different opinion than yours, so I'm a dumbass?
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You were in one what?!!! Back off little girl? Hahaha I'm 33 years old. You're a real dumbass ya know, and as far as you being a parent? Big deal, there are 12 year olds out there having babies.
In a behavior modification facility. 33? Well, I got at least 10 years on ya.
Yes, there are 12 year olds out there having babies. Your solution is to lock them up?
Dumbass. :roll:
Have your opinions I will have mine. So what if you're 10 years older then me? By calling me a little girl I only assumed someone such as yourself who has the brain the size of a pea thought CCM girl 1989 meant that was the year I was born! BTW, if your 12 and getting knocked up.........um maybe you need to use a condom. Not only will it prevent that, but it could prevent you contacting an STD or HIV for god sakes.
You're not going to change my mind. It's not my job to go out there and find good treatment facilities. They do exist. You are a complete moron if you don't think they do. What, you want me on my own dime, to go out there and start investigation and locating these places for parents? And of course not make any money doing it!!!!! This whole subject is turning into a joke.
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You were in one what?!!! Back off little girl? Hahaha I'm 33 years old. You're a real dumbass ya know, and as far as you being a parent? Big deal, there are 12 year olds out there having babies.
Fuck off and shut your gaping bloody twat you dumb nigger bitch.
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Have your opinions I will have mine. So what if you're 10 years older then me? By calling me a little girl I only assumed someone such as yourself who has the brain the size of a pea thought CCM girl 1989 meant that was the year I was born!
No, I knew approximately how old you are.
BTW, if your 12 and getting knocked up.........um maybe I want you to use a condom. Not only will it prevent that, but it could prevent you contacting an STD or HIV for god sakes.
Assuming facts not in evidence. Where did I say that I was 12?
You're not going to change my mind.
Wasn't trying to. I was just stating my opinion and you called me a dumbass for it.
It's not my job to go out there and find good treatment facilities.
Never said it was.
They do exist.
In your opinion.
You are a complete moron if you don't think they do.
Again with the name calling because I think differently than you.
[qutoe]What, you want me on my own dime, to go out there and start investigation and locating these places for parents? And of course not make any money doing it!!!!! This whole subject is turning into a joke.[/quote]
It has been for a while now.
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Look dumbass isn't the worst thing I've been called! It's fine, really we all have our opinions. And for Niles, whatever bud, don't tell me what terms to use and which ones not to. I speak from my mind, heart, and soul I can't control the phrases I use. And if it upsets you, I am real sorry but you do stuff, and say stuff that I don't care for and drives me up a wall at times. Whatever who cares!
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If you cant even begin to define what makes a treatment facility good, what the guidelines are, what it does, how it does it, and what necessitates going there, then how do we even know it exists?
We're asking for an EXAMPLE, CCM. Can you provide one? Can you even talk about what a good program is LIKE? The point here isnt to defend programs, its to talk about willing treatment for kids, and only forced treatment or incarceration when absolutely necessary, not go "oh there is a good one somewhere, go find it, if you cant its your fault".
FYI, the kind of "program" (though I'd be more inclined to call it a halfway house) is the sort that doesnt keep them locked in, have arbitrary rules, levels, take things away, etc, at all.
Its more like a place they can live with NORMAL 'structure' and rules, but theyre free to have friends, go get jobs, and go to school. Yeah, normal 'structure' like cleaning up after themselves and hygene, but not the twisted version of 'structure' people throw around all the time with levels, psycho-emotional bullshit, isolation, levels, bla bla bla.
That would be a 'good program', though the world 'program' is twisted and tained by places calling themselves such for the past 20-30 years. That would do a lot more good than some lockin facility to make them change and grow and throw around buzzwords right and left. dont you think?
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Look dumbass isn't the worst thing I've been called! It's fine, really we all have our opinions. And for Niles, whatever bud, don't tell me what terms to use and which ones not to. I speak from my mind, heart, and soul I can't control the phrases I use. And if it upsets you, I am real sorry but you do stuff, and say stuff that I don't care for and drives me up a wall at times. Whatever who cares!
Twisted buzzwords make communication difficult.
I prefer speaking clearly and explicitly.
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You were pretty vague when you said you been in one. Well, I assumed since we were in the WWASPS forum it happened to be a WWASPS facility you were in. Which when you called me little girl it made no sense, blah, blah, blah because I was there in the very beginning. Whatever, I am over it if you are!
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You were pretty vague when you said you been in one. Well, I assumed since we were in the WWASPS forum it happened to be a WWASPS facility you were in. Which when you called me little girl it made no sense, blah, blah, blah because I was there in the very beginning. Whatever, I am over it if you are!
I never said I was in a program, ever. An anon did, who is very much not me.
And no I havent been in a program... unless I mistook who you were talking to.
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You were pretty vague when you said you been in one. Well, I assumed since we were in the WWASPS forum it happened to be a WWASPS facility you were in. Which when you called me little girl it made no sense, blah, blah, blah because I was there in the very beginning. Whatever, I am over it if you are!
I never said I was in a program, ever. An anon did, who is very much not me.
And no I havent been in a program... unless I mistook who you were talking to.
It was the ANON, sometimes I don't wanna quote because I think I will make the next comment if i hurry quick enough.
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You were pretty vague when you said you been in one. Well, I assumed since we were in the WWASPS forum it happened to be a WWASPS facility you were in. Which when you called me little girl it made no sense, blah, blah, blah because I was there in the very beginning. Whatever, I am over it if you are!
I called you a little girl cuz ya pissed me off with this....
I didn't say "they are good programs" as in WWASPS! I said there were good programs out in this world, and it's your job, and duty as parents to find them. Now if your saying there are no good programs anywhere then you must still be under the belief and notion that the world is not round, it is flat. Go sell that garbage to someone else.
Because my opinion is not in line with yours I must be a complete asshole who still thinks the world is flat?
Go peddle your garbage about "good programs" somewhere else. :roll:
Niles......dead on. :tup:
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If you cant even begin to define what makes a treatment facility good, what the guidelines are, what it does, how it does it, and what necessitates going there, then how do we even know it exists?
We're asking for an EXAMPLE, CCM. Can you provide one? Can you even talk about what a good program is LIKE? The point here isnt to defend programs, its to talk about willing treatment for kids, and only forced treatment or incarceration when absolutely necessary, not go "oh there is a good one somewhere, go find it, if you cant its your fault".
FYI, the kind of "program" (though I'd be more inclined to call it a halfway house) is the sort that doesnt keep them locked in, have arbitrary rules, levels, take things away, etc, at all.
Its more like a place they can live with NORMAL 'structure' and rules, but theyre free to have friends, go get jobs, and go to school. Yeah, normal 'structure' like cleaning up after themselves and hygene, but not the twisted version of 'structure' people throw around all the time with levels, psycho-emotional bullshit, isolation, levels, bla bla bla.
That would be a 'good program', though the world 'program' is twisted and tained by places calling themselves such for the past 20-30 years. That would do a lot more good than some lockin facility to make them change and grow and throw around buzzwords right and left. dont you think?
I will do that as soon as you can extend the day by atleast 2 hours thus making it a 26 hour day so I can do all that you are asking me to do.
Believe me. if I had a financial backer that cared about children as much as I did I would create a place, an NO it wouldn't be called Never Neverland lol. Anyway, I would know how to structure it. I know what works, and what doesn't. If I took one thing from my experiences in these places it was getting to know hundreds and hundreds of different girls with all different personalities, and I know what kids need. I know better then most of the people who create these programs.
Anyway, I really got to go! It's been fun.
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I will do that as soon as you can extend the day by atleast 2 hours thus making it a 26 hour day so I can do all that you are asking me to do.
Believe me. if I had a financial backer that cared about children as much as I did I would create a place, an NO it wouldn't be called Never Neverland lol. Anyway, I would know how to structure it. I know what works, and what doesn't. If I took one thing from my experiences in these places it was getting to know hundreds and hundreds of different girls with all different personalities, and I know what kids need. I know better then most of the people who create these programs.
Anyway, I really got to go! It's been fun.
Sorry CCMgirl, but the onus is on you.
You're telling us generally "I know", but wont say. This is what
WWASPS does.
You HAVE to enumerate and you HAVE to explain what you're saying, otherwise, you're 'fulla shit'.
Im sorry to do this, Im really not out to get you or gaslight you, but you're spewing generalized nonsense, not explaining a bit of it, and not really making any sense.
Also, could you at least breifly tell me if you agree w/ith the "halfway house" idea, or are you more in favor of lock-in, closed institutions?
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Real quick, I like the halfway house idea. But, there needs to be rules, and structure. You should have someone who lives on premise. You should also have some kind of life coach that can help direct/guide you. As a teenager you are not equipped with the wisdom of how the world works.
Sometimes, kids that are really fucked up by their parents and upbringing need to be in a controlled enviroment to prevent them from doing harm to themselves, or others. Until they can get themselves under control, they shouldn't be allowed to have the freedom to wander on and off campus.
It's not their fault, it's their parents fault. In the end kids pay the price. I am sorry there is nothing I can do about it. It's the parents who are to blame. Not me.
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Real quick, I like the halfway house idea. But, there needs to be rules, and structure. You should have someone who lives on premise. You should also have some kind of life coach that can help direct/guide you. As a teenager you are not equipped with the wisdom of how the world works.
"Life coach" is a big fat red flag here. If you mean a counselor, sure. If you mean LGAT style bullshit and new-agey nonsense, then... not just no, HELL no! Any EST style bullshit should be nipped in the bud.
Another thing I wonder is why you say "rules and structure" as if its not a given. Do you mean normal structure, like what is normal everywhere else? I figured it was... um... normal.
Do you mean anything special at all, besides just cleaning up after yourself, not starting fights, etc? Im sorry to push the point, but most of the time when 'structure' is thrown aroudn as a necessity and a point made of it (nobody goes out of their way to say indoor plumbing) it usually means something authoritarian and fun things taken away as a matter of course.
Sometimes, kids that are really fucked up by their parents and upbringing need to be in a controlled enviroment to prevent them from doing harm to themselves, or others. Until they can get themselves under control, they shouldn't be allowed to have the freedom to wander on and off campus.
Define controlled environment, and define "out of control". Thats extremely general! Its not a normal upbringing to be confined and not have the ability to socialize or exercise any freedom!
Also, in the MEDICAL PROFESSION... youre only locked up if its NECESSARY. If its not necessary, its unethical to lock them up.
It's not their fault, it's their parents fault. In the end kids pay the price. I am sorry there is nothing I can do about it. It's the parents who are to blame. Not me.
I agree, but you cant be general about this or go talking about what you feel kids need and not explain what you mean, nor are you an expert on the matter... and you have to respect a persons natural right to freedom, and not just walk all over them becuase they're not 18 yet.
As you yourself said, someone shoving shit down your throat would piss you off. How is pulling some kid out of the world and throwing them in some lockup gonna make them happy or want to work with you? Friendship, freedom, etc, are NECESSITIES.
Also, ironically, the one thing found to lower recidivism (not bootcamps or programs with which there is any acutal information) is GETTING A JOB AND MAKING YOUR OWN DECISIONS.
Its just what the facts are.
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Ok, heres an example of what Im talking about.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=149856#149856 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=149856#149856)
That is something Id agree with, but I wouldnt call it a program... and it would also do a far better job of getting someone ready for the real world, and not an institution.
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Sorry Niles I don't know what else to call it?! There are people who coach kids in life and how the real world works. I named it a life coach! As far as the seminar stuff goes, I am way against that, and always have been.
When I say structure, I mean a normal amount of structure. I did look up Helena Handsbaskets post, and that is more of what I am invisioning. I do think the curfew of midnight during the week is a tad bit too liniant. I would put that at 10:00pm unless it was a job that kept you later. 1am is fine for the weekend.
So, if they could have places more like that for kids to transition into I would be happy.
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Sorry Niles I don't know what else to call it?! There are people who coach kids in life and how the real world works. I named it a life coach! As far as the seminar stuff goes, I am way against that, and always have been.
When I say structure, I mean a normal amount of structure. I did look up Helena Handsbaskets post, and that is more of what I am invisioning. I do think the curfew of midnight during the week is a tad bit too liniant. I would put that at 10:00pm unless it was a job that kept you later. 1am is fine for the weekend.
So, if they could have places more like that for kids to transition into I would be happy.
Ok, so we've finally reached a reasonable, specific "good thing".
One point. Why do you see leniency as bad? The point isnt to control them, its to teach them how to control themselves. Besides, if theyre going to school and working, they should be tired anyway!
My point is this: if you make them do something, they'll fight you. If you let them decide on their own and start growing up and actually learning to make decisons, they'll start to grow up and get more out of you.
This is why something like THAT can work, because theyre the ones taking the reigns, and youre just letting them go... not MAKING THEM. See?
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Look, there are good programs
::noway:: ::noway::
I didn't say "they are good programs" as in WWASPS! I said there were good programs out in this world, and it's your job, and duty as parents to find them. Now if your saying there are no good programs anywhere then you must still be under the belief and notion that the world is not round, it is flat. Go sell that garbage to someone else.
Back off little girl. I was in one and I'm a parent. It's my fucking opinion that there are NO GOOD PROGRAMS.
Whether there are still any in existence is the question.
I posted this a while ago.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=149856#149856 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=149856#149856)
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So how far reaching is the term 'program'? This could mean everything from summer camps to group homes to day treatment. To say 'there are no good programs', I don't even know what that means. To say 'there are good programs', again, I have no clue what that means. The variety and complexity of all the different 'programs' all over the country are too different to all be lumped into one. I saw niles distinguished psychiatric hospital setting from programs, but they are very much programs as well, just a different model. They are very much pro-incarceration, and take teens in against their will, so how could one reconcile being okay with psychiatric placements and completely 100% 'anti-program' at the same time. It doesn't really seem to make sense to me. In between psych hospitals and programs would be day treatment, group homes, state run programs, foster homes and various other things. I got to try all different brands of 'programs' and they all have their own pitfalls, so to be completely against or for any of them I think is a stance hard for me to take after my own experiences.
I am 100% against wwasps and provo canyon because I was at these places and witnessed them first hand. But before that I was at a state run program and I never had any problems there, before that I was at a few different psych hospitals and various other places during my teenage years. Programs are abusive because the lack of communication and the divide and conquer strategy that goes on between parent and kid. When I was at the state run program or in the hospital there was a social worker who would force us to communicate with each other. They would provide mediation because it got pretty bad. I signed on for a residential program willingly, because I did want to get away from my family. But wwasps changes your parent, so even if they originally had good intentions starting out, they convince them to start lying to you, etc.
After I walked out of the program a week after I turned 18, I knew I still had my medical insurance card (and nothing else.. no money or shelter) and so I went to the hospital and told them I was depressed and thinking of killing myself. I had experience with the system before so I knew how to work it to get a bed... luckily they had one left.. I got seriously lucky. So I got into their 'program' and I thought it was awesome. There were kids in there who were kicking and screaming because they didn't want to be there, and then there were kids who were happy to get attention and good food and have some normalcy in an other words traumatic life.
Obviously wwasps and all similar programs should be shut down immediately. Provo canyon was reccomended by our psychiatrist... that shithole needs to be shut down. So I think good 'programs' do exist, they just aren't the type that any joe blow can start and make a profit. The real ones actually lose money probably.
It's definitely a complicated debate. On one side of the spectrum, you have private programs, whos customers are relatively wealthy, normally white parents who live in a suburb, more than likely somewhere near the coast. Since they are the only one's deciding whether their kid needs to be sent away or not, they can be pressured, duped and manipulated into doing all sorts of crazy things that a trained social worker or other non-emotionally charged individually would do. These parents have (in their perspective) a problem kid and want the problem solved. WWASPS comes to them and basically says, just sign here and your problem will dissappear. That is a powerful sell right there, and for people who are desperate for whatever reason, selfish or not, that is a tempting offer. If that sort of budget or loan is not totally out of the realm of possibilities, it becomes a real option for parents. What is being played out is a true caveat emptor view of 'helping kids'. They provide the least amount of service possible, and maintain as much profit as they can. We all know their techniques on how to keep costs down and keep kids there longer and pack more kids in. It's all about the money. Parents who have that sort of money seem to trust 'private' programs more for some reason. They have a very negative view of state run anything, and view it as some sort of sandtrap that once in you can never escape. They don't want their kid mixing with the real 'bad kids'.
On the other side of the spectrum, you have the public programs provided at no cost through state medical insurance or other financing methods. This ranges from CYA, juve, halfway houses, residential programs, psych hospital and day treament. I've done all of them except any long term time in CYA which is the child prison system in cali. It's pretty shitty, and the kids don't get the help they need. But the state run residential programs aren't that bad. If your a kid locked up in jail a move to a residential program or halfway house is welcome change. In the residential program we had very comfortable living conditions, cool staff, freedom of movement to a certain degree, and there was no fence. We weren't supposed to leave but they legally weren't allowed to physically stop us, they were supposed to call the police, so running away was easy and happened regularly. It was pretty simple, we'd eat and go to school and do chores and play sports, listen to music. I don't think that was so important as just providing a safe place with some regularity to it.
So what constitutes a 'program' I guess is an important question... becaus to say 'all programs need to be shut down'... how far reaching is that statement? Does that mean shut everything down except for juvenille hall? Or leave the psychiatric programs too? What exactly does that mean, does it mean shut down all the private programs, or just wwasps?
That is why I don't get the argument, it's pointless. The issue at hand is whether you can violate the law, meaning, if a child is from california, you cannot keep them locked up in a private program under current law. So instead they build programs in Montana, and Utah and other tax-hungry states willing to look the other way, and profit as well. If current laws were enforced, programs like wwasps would not exist. A parent cannot treat a child as wwasps does, so how can it be legal when they do it? Transporting kids should be illegal. I believe the debate should revolve around whether forced treatment is allowable. Is it even legal to violate state law by kidnapping a child and taking them to an out of state program? If a parent truly believes their child is need of help and they will not get it voluntarily, options already exist. You can get away with just calling the cops and that will give you 72 hours, then you can convince the psychiatrist to keep signing the stay order if needed, I've seen it done. Then they can go to court and get long term options, if a judge decides it's neccessary, and you get representation. That way if a kid thinks the 'program' they are in is helping, good for them. If they want to walk out, good for them as well, that is their legal right to do so, and if it's not it should be. The idea of shifting responsibility for money must be stopped. Parents must realize they cannot pay someone else to deal with their problem. They have to be involved in whatever treatment or program exists otherwise it is a futile effort. The idea that the entire problem lies within the kid, and that they can be independently fixed and shipped back is ridiculous. Any program based on this philosophy should not exist, because it is ineffective and dangerous. They are selling an overly attractive and simple solution to a complex problem. That is why programs are doing so well, they are selling a dream, a fantasy... not the cold hard reality that their teenager cannot be magically 'fixed' without their involvement and sacrifice and perhaps even self reflection on their own misgivings as a parent. So that eliminates probably all the big players in this industry and countless small programs, so what is left?
There is a a definite distinction between the way middle-upper class folks deal with their 'problem' teenager than the people who cannot even contemplate spending so much money, or have it. Psychiatric hospitals is a place where these two groups intersect. There are extremely poor kids and extremely well off kids all together at the same facility, receiving the exact same thing. I believe many program parents are trying to prevent their kid from entering the 'lower class' system of dealing with teenagers, and decide it's better to do it all themselves. But I suppose they do not take into account they might be making the wrong decision, and that people who deal with teenagers everyday for decades might know what they are talking about when they say they don't support sending your kid away for trivial reasons. But they don't want hard answers, they want easy answers and pay good money for it. I think the middle-upper class group of parents could actually learn a lot from their less welathy peers dealing with similar issues with their teen (minus the 'entitlement issue probably :wink: )
One paradigm shifting argument that can hit a 100% anti-program debater hard is the fact some kids were being physically and/or sexually abused at home and the program they were at was actually a relief in their view. It's hard to be 100% anti-program when you hear things like this. I've been told a couple times that if it weren't for a certain program, the kid would have killed themselves, and it gave them an option out of hell. If no programs, state or private existed, what option would exist for these kids. When saying no programs for kids, does that mean getting rid of child services too? Throw the good out with the bad? Just hope that any kid getting abused in any situation can run away, live on the street like in some romantic disney movie? If they do that they will probably be abused even more on the street. Wouldn't it be nice if there were a comfortable, long term, safe place where these kids could live and go to school until they start college? Would that be a 'bad' program? How would a poor kid living in a car with his drug addicted parents feel about a program, would it be a positive change in their life? It's these questions that prevent me from taking a 100% anti-any-program or help for teens type of stance. Good options exist, but they are in the minority for sure. What if the programs available were like extended summer camp. Would a negligent parent with enough money for a program send their kid off to a program less focused on punishment? That is an important question, because a lot of parents not only want to rid themselves of the responsibility of their kid, but want them to be blamed for everything that went wrong. That is a big aspect of wwasps programs, they brainwash you into taking responsibility for things you should not. This is what a lot of parents are paying for, the relief of their own sense of guilt, and responsibility. It's sad. And that is probably why programs focused on punishment and military type goals (building character, accountability, peer groups, etc) appeal so much. Afterall, for three grand a month, they could set their kid on in a condo on some Florida beach, so why the huge discrepency?
Then there is the group of parents like CCM's who just want a dumping ground for their unwanted child. Again, there seems to be two distince economic variations to this action by parents, and it happens frequently in both economic arenas it would seem. We had a 12 year old kid in our program family, he came from the richest family and they made it clear he would be there until he turned 18. He wasn't the only one, just the youngest. This isn't as uncommon as it seems. Parents with money now have the option to hire a kidnapper and send their kid off until they turn 18, without ever having to face their child's face. This provides a sick and twisted option for parents unwilling to take responsibility for their child, and it should stop. Advertising trivial reasons for sending a kid away only serves to increase these types of placements. But what do families without the means to send their kid away do when they feel like doing the same thing? The kid will get caught up in the state system of foster homes, programs and courts. I guess the difference is that the state will only take responsibility for the kid if absolutely necessary. If you are a financially and emotionally stable parent(s) and call up social services they won't kidnap your kid and take them away forever. They'd probably have you evaluated just for asking. In both cases it's parents who are at fault, and different groups are available to clean up the mess they left behind. Nowadays businessmen teamed with crazed idealogues are providing what seems like a better option to parents, than the current existing system (community based, voluntvary treatment, juvenile hall, courts, etc). One group is marketing heavily and making tens of millions of dollars, the other is not marketed at all, and scares some parents away.
What would you do if I was standing outside the hospital, selling my own brand of 'treament' to people, siphoning off people with legitimate medical problems, to my retail version, new age version of medicine. In today's anti-western climate, it's pretty easy to convince people to do things on the way they feel, and not the facts. With a pitch about how scary and dangerous surgeries are, how much money doctors make and driving their shiny bmw's I could make a convincing case. I will sovle your medical problems with oranges and good prayers. Obviously, my solution is ridiculous, but it will appeal to certain people. People who want to remain in denial, and not face the reality of their situation. This is so prevelant in today's world it's mind numbing sometimes! So long as parents are making up their mind based on the way the feel and not facts and reason, they will be manipulated like sheep year after year until every kid is sent to a program. What would you do if you were that hospital and I was standing outside your street siphoning off your patients? What if it was an organized team of people using sophisticated marketing and referal techniques with money and lawyers? Well, whatever your answer is to this theoretical situation, that is what we need to do to these problem 'programs'.
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OutlawHorseEater, should you happen to encounter my nigger during your travels today, please tell him to return. Thanks.
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Hey--aren't we supposed to be talking about all this but in the context of Sue Scheff and her rip off business?
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Yeah...the business of Sue ripping off her panties, right?
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You were pretty vague when you said you been in one. Well, I assumed since we were in the WWASPS forum it happened to be a WWASPS facility you were in. Which when you called me little girl it made no sense, blah, blah, blah because I was there in the very beginning. Whatever, I am over it if you are!
I called you a little girl cuz ya pissed me off with this....
I didn't say "they are good programs" as in WWASPS! I said there were good programs out in this world, and it's your job, and duty as parents to find them. Now if your saying there are no good programs anywhere then you must still be under the belief and notion that the world is not round, it is flat. Go sell that garbage to someone else.
Because my opinion is not in line with yours I must be a complete asshole who still thinks the world is flat?
Go peddle your garbage about "good programs" somewhere else. :roll:
Niles......dead on. :tup:
ANON, can I interest you in a pair of cement booties? Then can I take you on a trip to see Alcatraz?!!
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Ahahaha. OMG, that was so funny!!!!!!!!! Your wit! You're killing me over here!
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Hey little girl, you started this by calling me a dumbass because I didn't agree with something you said. Is that how you handle all your conflicts? I even came back and said that I apologized for slapping back at you but you kept on. Go sleep with the fishes yourself bitch. :rofl: ::fuckoff::
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Yeah...the business of Sue ripping off her panties, right?
:rofl: ::rocker:: ::bwahaha2:: ::bwahaha:: :rofl: :rofl:
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(http://http://www.clint.ca/argue/argue.jpg)
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Yeah...the business of Sue ripping off her panties, right?
Hey stupid, if you saw this female on the film you would take her panties and cover her ugly face. Why don't you hang out on the porn sites?
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Yeah...the business of Sue ripping off her panties, right?
Hey stupid, if you saw this female on the film you would take her panties and cover her ugly face. Why don't you hang out on the porn sites?
Hey, big fella PERV. Give me a call.
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Yeah...the business of Sue ripping off her panties, right?
Hey stupid, if you saw this female on the film you would take her panties and cover her ugly face. Why don't you hang out on the porn sites?
Just jealous, I guess. Sue rules! As long as I have a face, she'll always have a place to sit!
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Yeah...the business of Sue ripping off her panties, right?
Hey stupid, if you saw this female on the film you would take her panties and cover her ugly face. Why don't you hang out on the porn sites?
Just jealous, I guess. Sue rules! As long as I have a face, she'll always have a place to sit!
I suggest a snorkel for you then.
Ha! Good one 3-Springs! Add a gas mask and penacillan to your check list.
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You two *wish* you could have just one sniff of her glorious fragrance.
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(http://http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Tuna.jpg)
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1. Who is P.U.R.E.?
2. Why use P.U.R.E. Services?
3. How does P.U.R.E. work?
4. How much does this service cost?
5. What is the cost of the schools and programs?
6. Where are the schools and programs located?
7. Where is P.U.R.E. located?
8. How is P.U.R.E. funded?
1. Who is P.U.R.E.? (THE LIES, BUT SEE BELOW FOR THE TRUTH)
P.U.R.E. is an organization that offers parents resources in regards to schools and programs for pre-teens and teens. P.U.R.E. was founded by a parent who recognized a need of a change in this industry. During her search for her own child, there was a feeling of loss and confusion. Many of the Educational Consultants are political, lack understanding and compassion, as well as are very costly.
With this, there is a need for a service as P.U.R.E. to help parents know they are not alone. P.U.R.E. is here to help you sort through the confusion during a desperate time.
Return to Frequently Asked Questions
Attention Parents!
Need help in making the right decision on how to best help your child? Click here to get an answer from a Parent Consultant. Go ahead, our service is no cost to you! We are here to help."
TRUTHFUL QUESTION: WHO IS P.U.R.E. REALLY?
TRUTHFUL ANSWER: P.U.R.E. is really Sue Scheff, a middle aged wealthy mother, who is divorced, who sues other parents and gets sued. Her partner is Marie Peart who was related to Robert Browning Lichfield the founder of WWASP. Marie Peart was one of WWASP's top markerters until she divorced from the Browning family and hooked up with Sue Scheff. Sue Scheff was a top marketing agent for WWASP, for almost 2 years and at least 8 months into forming her P.U.R.E. agency. It is true that she placed her daughter in Carolina Springs Academy owned a WWASP school. She now uses this experience to get money from parents to place their kids in the Sue Scheff version of WWASP.
Sue Scheff's misrepresentation "Go ahead, our service is no cost to you!" is a lie. Sue and Marie make money on parent referrals by having the program charge the parent an up-front "administrative" fee. That fee, in the thousands, then gets paid to Sue Scheff and Marie Peart through P.U.R.E.
Until Sue Scheff was sued by WWASP for fraud she had on her web page that she has a degree in business. The judge ordered her to remove the lie, which she did. Sue really has a high school diploma and so does her partner Marie. Neither have any training or education in any subject relating to children and families, the same as Lichfield and the same with their programs.
LET US KNOW IF YOU WOULD LIKE THE OTHER QUESTIONS BELOW OF SUE SCHEFF ANSWERED. WE CAN GIVE YOU HONEST ANSWERS BASED ON AN INVESTIGATION INTO HER BACKGROUND.
2. Why use P.U.R.E. Services?
P.U.R.E. has dedicated their service to locate licensed, accredited and qualified programs & schools. We are constantly researching (including visiting programs personally) and take the time to listen to parent feedback. First hand experience is a valuable tool for learning about programs and schools.
This saves you time, stress and frustration of reviewing many brochures and speaking with many "sales reps." Being able to give parents choices is what makes us unique. P.U.R.E. believes being overwhelmed and confused can cause errors in placement of your child. We want to relieve that confusion.
P.U.R.E. is recognized by the Better Business Bureau and approved by the Broward County School District.
Return to Frequently Asked Questions
Attention Parents!
Need help in making the right decision on how to best help your child? Click here to get an answer from a Parent Consultant. Go ahead, our service is no cost to you! We are here to help.
3. How does P.U.R.E. work?
P.U.R.E. takes the time to listen to your needs. We want to give you qualified options to find the best placement for your child, if he/she requires this. We believe that residential placement is usually the last resort. For more information please fill out our "request free information" form.
We give you options of what we have researched and visited. It is a parent's decision on what is best for their child. We are an independent resource center for parents.
Return to Frequently Asked Questions
4. How much does this service cost?
There is no cost for our services. The schools and programs are tuition based. Financing is available through the schools and programs.
Attention Parents!
Need help in making the right decision on how to best help your child? Click here to get an answer from a Parent Consultant. Go ahead, our service is no cost to you! We are here to help.
Return to Frequently Asked Questions
5. What is the cost of the schools and programs?
The costs vary depending upon what school or program you choose for your child. Qualified programs can range from $3200.00 per month and up. In some cases, your medical insurance may cover a portion of a Therapeutic Boarding School (TBS) or Residential Treatment Center (RTC).
Most Military and Boarding Schools start at $20,000.00 annually.
Financing Options:
Prep Gate www.prepgate.com (http://www.prepgate.com) 1-800-888-3534283
Key Bank www.key.com/educate/ (http://www.key.com/educate/) 1-800-539-5363
Sallie Mae www.salliemae.com (http://www.salliemae.com)
Home Equity Loans (check with your bank) - This can be beneficial to many parents with a tax deduction.
Medical Insurance
Return to Frequently Asked Questions
6. Where are the schools and programs located?
There are locations throughout the United States. We do encourage parents not to restrict their search to a limited geographical area. Finding the most appropriate fit for your child may require travel. Settling for anything less, would be settling for second best.
Return to Frequently Asked Questions
7. Where is P.U.R.E. located?
We are located in Weston, Florida. This is about 10 miles west of Ft. Lauderdale.
Return to Frequently Asked Questions
8. How is P.U.R.E. funded?
P.U.R.E. is funded by several schools and programs as well as private funding. We are part of a pro-active community in getting our children the help they may need. Our community recognizes that our children are the future. Our motto is: Bringing families back together?
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Too bad that post doesnt list the actual grievances.
Ill list them here:
- She is funded by the programs, alright - she gets a 5-7K sum from the program she refers a kid to, by the program she refers them to.
- She uses her daughters abuse at the hands off WWASPS to gain credibility but doesnt care if the programs she refers to are abusive or not
- The WHITMORE FIASCO in which she stood by someone running a program who was not only accused of abuse but under investigation for doing so, and the program was later closed.
- There were outstanding accusations against the woman who ran it in Canada... so its not like there wasnt reason to be suspicious!
- SHE REFERRED KIDS TO WWASPS, EVEN AFTER REMOVING HER OWN KID.
Basically, shes in it for the money, doesnt care what happens to the kid, but uses the abuse of her own child to gain credibility.
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Too bad that post doesnt list the actual grievances.
Ill list them here:
- She is funded by the programs, alright - she gets a 5-7K sum from the program she refers a kid to, by the program she refers them to.
- She uses her daughters abuse at the hands off WWASPS to gain credibility but doesnt care if the programs she refers to are abusive or not
- The WHITMORE FIASCO in which she stood by someone running a program who was not only accused of abuse but under investigation for doing so, and the program was later closed.
- There were outstanding accusations against the woman who ran it in Canada... so its not like there wasnt reason to be suspicious!
- SHE REFERRED KIDS TO WWASPS, EVEN AFTER REMOVING HER OWN KID.
Basically, shes in it for the money, doesnt care what happens to the kid, but uses the abuse of her own child to gain credibility.
Good information Nilie! What about the other programs P.U.R.E./Sue Scheff refer to? There are others with child abuse that was substantiated. I heard about it. There were 2 in Utah and Sue still refers to them. Does anyone know anything about them?
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Does someone have the depositions of Sue Scheff? Someone knew a lot about them. I think it was Three Springs and was quoting from them. How can we get copies? Will the court give them to us?
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If you suck the right cocks, you can get anything you want. :rofl:
So smart--you must be a member of Mensa.
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And you must be a member of nambla. :roll:
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Too bad that post doesnt list the actual grievances.
Ill list them here:
- She is funded by the programs, alright - she gets a 5-7K sum from the program she refers a kid to, by the program she refers them to.
- She uses her daughters abuse at the hands off WWASPS to gain credibility but doesnt care if the programs she refers to are abusive or not
- The WHITMORE FIASCO in which she stood by someone running a program who was not only accused of abuse but under investigation for doing so, and the program was later closed.
- There were outstanding accusations against the woman who ran it in Canada... so its not like there wasnt reason to be suspicious!
- SHE REFERRED KIDS TO WWASPS, EVEN AFTER REMOVING HER OWN KID.
Basically, shes in it for the money, doesnt care what happens to the kid, but uses the abuse of her own child to gain credibility.
Good information Nilie! What about the other programs P.U.R.E./Sue Scheff refer to? There are others with child abuse that was substantiated. I heard about it. There were 2 in Utah and Sue still refers to them. Does anyone know anything about them?
She wont say!
She just says "trust me, my kid was abused by wwasps" :roll: and then advocates every single sort of program/bm/bootcamp/military bla bla bla sort of thing and every sort of (mis)diagnosis or imaginary pathology she can to suck people in.
Or, claims these places provide acutal therapy, as in what she did to Joyce and her daugther by sending them to the Whitmore.
Whitmore isn't around anymore AFAIK, but frankly What I wonder is why nobody has come with a sticky about this.
And no I dont have links to the actual court documents, but they're floating around... and the search button works for everyone just as well as for me!
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FROM THE SUE SCHEFF/P.U.R.E. WEB SITE (THE TRUTH AT THE BOTTOM)
2. Why use P.U.R.E. Services?
P.U.R.E. has dedicated their service to locate licensed, accredited and qualified programs & schools. We are constantly researching (including visiting programs personally) and take the time to listen to parent feedback. First hand experience is a valuable tool for learning about programs and schools.
This saves you time, stress and frustration of reviewing many brochures and speaking with many "sales reps." Being able to give parents choices is what makes us unique. P.U.R.E. believes being overwhelmed and confused can cause errors in placement of your child. We want to relieve that confusion.
P.U.R.E. is recognized by the Better Business Bureau and approved by the Broward County School District.
Return to Frequently Asked Questions
Attention Parents!
Need help in making the right decision on how to best help your child? Click here to get an answer from a Parent Consultant. Go ahead, our service is no cost to you! We are here to help.
THE TRUTH: Yes, parents, attention! Sue Scheff and Marie Peart are as qualified as a street person to place your child and to "qualify" any program as appropriate. Their expertise: Scamming and taking your hard-earned money.
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"P.U.R.E. is recognized by the Better Business Bureau and approved by the Broward County School District."
Any reason why we can't put Fornits on the Broward County School District public forum?
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"P.U.R.E. is recognized by the Better Business Bureau and approved by the Broward County School District."
Any reason why we can't put Fornits on the Broward County School District public forum?
I don't see why not, nigger.
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Yeeeeaaahhhh, booyyyyeeeee.....
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Nice to see Sue and her Texan friends can join us.
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Nice to see Sue and her Texan friends can join us.
Get 'em up, head 'em out...
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"P.U.R.E. is recognized by the Better Business Bureau and approved by the Broward County School District."
Any reason why we can't put Fornits on the Broward County School District public forum?
Forget that, I honestly feel The Broward County School District
should be informed about her business practices...
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Absolutely, my nigga! :wave:
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Absolutely, my nigga! :wave:
When you talk about "nigga" and "nigger," are you talking about your friend, Sue Scheff selling Tranquility Bay? $$$$$$$$$$$$$
Anything for money honey.
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Who said anything about her being any friend of mine, Tex?
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My dearest fans............
Yes I was one of the top sellers for WWASP. What is wrong with that? I was trying to help families. Now I am P.U.R.E. and I am trying to help parents.
See the difference?
Abuse of kids happens everywhere, so why shouldn't I make a little badda-bing, badda-boom for myself on a couple of programs that have a little abuse now and then? Look....I have credibiltiy cause my own kid was at Carolina Springs. I use this to hook the parent.
"We" are "parents helping parents" and our parents (that is, Marie Peart and I are the parents helping parents). Marie and I "help" with getting the $$ cha-ching! out of other parents bank accounts and honey-dew we are good. ::dove::
::jawdrop:: ::dove::
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"P.U.R.E. is recognized by the Better Business Bureau and approved by the Broward County School District."
Any reason why we can't put Fornits on the Broward County School District public forum?
Forget that, I honestly feel The Broward County School District
should be informed about her business practices...
so is anyone doing posting on Broward County schools web site?
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"The maintenance worker, Shaun Sorensen, was the son of the School's owner and had been convicted of two felonies in California before relocating to Utah and beginning his full-time employment at the School".
IV. Criminal History
In Sorenson's Ranch School v. Oram, 2001 UT App 354, 36 P.3d 528, the Court of Appeals affirmed the trial court's reversal of a determination by the State Department of Human Services that would have prohibited persons with past felony convictions from employment in licensed child-care facilities. Utah Code Ann. Section 62A-4a-413(1) requires that licensed child-care providers submit a list of all employees for criminal background screening; Utah Code Ann. Section 62A-4a-413(2) prohibits convicted felons from "provid[ing] child placing services, foster care, youth programs, substitute care, or institutionalized care for children in facilities of programs licensed by the [Department of Human Services]." The Department argued that net effect of these statutory mandates was to prohibit any person convicted of a felony from employment in any capacity whatsoever at a licensed child-care facility.
Sorensen's Ranch School challenged the Department's interpretation of Utah Code Ann. Section 62A-4a-413 after the Department threatened to revoke the School's license based on its maintenance worker's criminal history. The maintenance worker, Shaun Sorensen, was the son of the School's owner and had been convicted of two felonies in California before relocating to Utah and beginning his full-time employment at the School. The Court of Appeals agreed with the School, reasoning that Subsection (2)'s prohibition of certain enumerated services to children applied more narrowly than Subsection (1)'s screening requirement for all employees of licensed child-care facilities. The court held that so long as Sorensen did not engage in any of the enumerated activities listed in Subsection (2), he could continue his employment with the School without jeopardizing the School's licensure.
During its 2002 General Session, the Legislature repealed Utah Code Ann. section 62A-4a-413, effective May 6, 2002. However, the Utah Child Care Licensing Act (the "Act"), Utah Code Ann. subsection 26-39-101 to -110, contains a similar prohibition on the employment of convicted felons "to provide child care," as well as numerous other disqualifications from owning, operating, working with or volunteering for a licensed child care program. The Act defines "child care" as "continuous care and supervision of five of more children under 14 years of age, in lieu of care ordinarily provided by parents in their home, for less that 24 hours a day, for direct or indirect compensation," suggesting that the court's reasoning in Sorenson's Ranch School, supra, would apply to permit employment of a convicted felon at a licensed child care facility so long as s/he did not provide child care within the meaning of the Act.
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Anyone:
Sorenson Ranch???
Is this another program that Sue Scheff/Izzy/P.U.R.E./CAICA refer parents to?
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Ahhh, yes it is. A girl/student was raped by a "maintenance man" Was it the son of the owner, this Shaun guy, I don't know. Sue refers to this program A LOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"The maintenance worker, Shaun Sorensen, was the son of the School's owner and had been convicted of two felonies in California before relocating to Utah and beginning his full-time employment at the School".
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Might be able to narrow this Sue Scheff and abusive schools she refers to down a bit by asking the question,
Has Sue Scheff ever referred to a school that DOESN'T abuse kids?
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Might be able to narrow this Sue Scheff and abusive schools she refers to down a bit by asking the question,
Has Sue Scheff ever referred to a school that DOESN'T abuse kids?
Now how the hell would she prove that?
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By looking through her records and giving an example of a time when she referred someone to a school that didn't torture people!
...you can stop laughing now.
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Anyone know whats going on with Whitmore? Is Sue Scheff going to testify?
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Sure hope they supoena her sorry, lying ass.
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Joyce--if your out there, do you know whats the deal with the Whitmore criminal case? Or is Sue Scheff threatening to sue you also if you talk? She talks about WWASP suing her bu t look at what Mrs. Scheff does to everyone.
This is what the world think of you Mrs. Scheff and your fake-O company ::fuckoff::
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California Boy:
Read under the Who Am I Discover thread:
Cheryl Sudweeks was given a "plea deal" and will not be standing trial in the criminal case.
You can also read other threads here on fornits, or go to the ISAC website, and read a letter that I received from Sue Scheff's attorney awhile back. When I received this letter from Scheff's attorney, I posted it on fornits and it was posted on ISAC.
Does Sue Scheff intend to sue me? I can't imagine what she would have to sue me about. You'd have to ask her this question.
Joyce Harris
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From Nihilanthic: "Pfft.
It got leaked out sue wanted to sue ME before."
Nihi: What was Sue Scheff going to sue you for?
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Man, if Scheff is involved in this many lawsuits, you just gotta wanna be this broad's attorney. Think of the $$$ this guy's gotta be making just keeping up with her. >>>>>
But we all know that Sue Scheff isn't in this for the money right? She simply gets paid by well known concentration camps for children correct?
If I remember correctly Carey Brock is a single parent raising twin boys. Did Sue think Carey was going to whip out her check book and write her a check? Sounds like Greedy Sue is getting big in this industry to. I can only hope that all these lawsuits surrounding Sue brings karma into the picture.
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Cary Brock got what she deserved for selling her hard drive to WWASP. She betrayed the trust from many people on the board. Hell i wanted to sue her too... I have PURE they are no better than WWASP, but PURE was right for suing Cary Brock.
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More on scheff. :roll: Hey good luck Mrs. Karma or should we just call ya "Little Mrs. Lichfield". See how luckie mrs. sheff-lichfield is when a real laywer is on someones side. :rofl:
QUOTE----
According to the Daily Business Review, Scheff also named Ginger Warbis as co-defendant. Warbis, who runs a web site critical of Scheff, obtained a well-know lawyer who successfully defeated Scheff?s claims of defamation: ?Warbis? lawyer, Philip Elberg, of Medvin & Elberg of Newark, New Jersey, sharply criticized Scheff and other people who refer parents to programs for troubled teens. ?People in this industry have consistently used their money and their access to lawyers to silence critics of the industry and this may be one of those examples,? Elberg said. ?Sue Scheff is simply another person in the industry of people who make money from the plight of frightened parents.??
The Daily Business Review, noting that Scheff and her business won effectively only by default, paraphrased Scheff?s attorney, stating, ?Bock was not present for the jury trial, which was held to determine damages only. . . .?
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Sue Scheff and PURE Win Empty Victory over New Orleans Mom
International Survivors Action Committee (ISAC)
10/9/2006
BROWARD COUNTY, FLORIDA (October 10, 2006) - On September 19, 2006, Parents Universal Resource Experts, Inc. (PURE) and its founder, Sue Scheff of Weston, Florida won an $11.3 million dollar victory of hollow sorts over a single mom from New Orleans by alleging defamation over the Internet. Although it is doubtful the verdict will be collected, it may serve to chill free speech of those attempting to expose child abuse or untoward business practices.
The mom, Carey Bock, had publicly criticized the business practices of Scheff and PURE in referring children to allegedly abusive programs. Scheff met the mother?s complaints with a lawsuit reminiscent of one filed against Scheff in 2001.
The mom lacked the financial resources to defend herself or to attend her own trial in Florida. Before trial, Ms. Bock relocated her small family from the New Orleans area to Texas in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. This, however, did not stop Scheff and PURE from coming full-steam after the mom for alleged defamation and other claims. As a result, without the benefit of hearing the mom?s side of the story, a jury had little choice but to award the $11.3 million dollar verdict requested by the lawyer for Scheff and her company.
According to the Daily Business Review, Scheff also named Ginger Warbis as co-defendant. Warbis, who runs a web site critical of Scheff, obtained a well-known lawyer who successfully defeated Scheff?s claims of defamation: ?Warbis? lawyer, Philip Elberg, of Medvin & Elberg of Newark, New Jersey, sharply criticized Scheff and other people who refer parents to programs for troubled teens. ?People in this industry have consistently used their money and their access to lawyers to silence critics of the industry and this may be one of those examples,? Elberg said. ?Sue Scheff is simply another person in the industry of people who make money from the plight of frightened parents.??
The Daily Business Review, noting that Scheff won effectively only by default, paraphrased Scheff?s attorney, stating, ?Bock was not present for the jury trial, which was held to determine damages only. . . .?
Ironically, a separate lawsuit had been filed in Utah against Scheff and PURE by the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs (WWASP), containing similar allegations as those raised by Scheff against the New Orleans mom. Scheff lost all counter-claims against WWASP but was not found liable for claims of damage allegedly caused when Scheff posted Internet statements asserting child abuse by WWASP. Scheff admitted she used false names to do so. While her case pended, Scheff removed representations from her web site which falsely stated Scheff holds a college degree.
The recent Florida verdict also ignored abuse allegations at children?s programs to which Scheff refers families because the jury never heard the opposing evidence. The owner of one such program to which Scheff made referrals, Whitmore Academy, was initially charged with multiple counts of child abuse and hazing in connection with four children at the boarding school. The owner recently pled no contest to four counts of hazing, and was ordered to pay fines and complete community service. The prosecuting attorney told the Deseret News, ?I believe it effectively shuts them down in the state of Utah.? According to a September 2006 news article by the Deseret News, ?The former operator of a therapeutic school [Whitmore Academy] for troubled youths, who has been kicked out of Mexico and accused of starving horses in Canada, has agreed not to run another rehabilitation school in Juab County.?
The allegations of child abuse did not deter Scheff from referring children for a profitable sum of money. In a separate case, the United States Court of Appeals found that defendants PURE and Sue Scheff, "[C]ompete with the schools associated with World Wide. PURE schools pay Ms. Scheff a substantial sum whenever a child enrolls in its program based on her recommendation."
According to the non-profit International Survivors Action Committee (ISAC), Scheff and her company are on the ISAC ?watch list? for questionable practices that may place children at risk for abuse or neglect. ####
Shelby Earnshaw
Founder
International Survivors Action Committee (ISAC)
(540) 522-6231
www.isaccorp.org (http://www.isaccorp.org)
Author of Recent Book
www.helpatanycost.com/ (http://www.helpatanycost.com/)
Michelle Sutton Death
michellesuttonmemorial.homestead.com/
Sources:
http://www.isaccorp.org/ (http://www.isaccorp.org/)
http://www.helpatanycost.com/ (http://www.helpatanycost.com/)
http://www.isaccorp.org/referrals.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/referrals.asp)
http://michellesuttonmemorial.homestead.com/ (http://michellesuttonmemorial.homestead.com/)
http://www.help-for-teen.com/ (http://www.help-for-teen.com/)
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/home.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/home.html)
http://www.wwaspinfo.com/ (http://www.wwaspinfo.com/)
http://www.teenhelpindustry.info/ (http://www.teenhelpindustry.info/)
http://www.paulareeves.com/ (http://www.paulareeves.com/)
http://www.ethicaltreatment.org/ (http://www.ethicaltreatment.org/)
http://www.kathymoya.com/index.html (http://www.kathymoya.com/index.html)
http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp ... &aId=19977 (http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?SESSIONID=&aId=19977)
http://www.majon.com/advanced/pressrele ... eeves.html (http://www.majon.com/advanced/pressreleases/paulareeves.html)
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,650192749,00.html (http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,650192749,00.html)
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That "press release" issued by Scheff/Pure/Caica is something else; and just filled with unbelievable stuff.
One being that "the Whitmore has been in business 30 years."
The Sudweeks fled Canada when Mark Sudweeks was found guilty of severe animal abuse, and banned for life from owning animals in Canada, and fined over $100K: Reginia vs Sudweeks in 2001.
Then the Sudweeks were evicted from Mexico in Feb 2001 for illegally running a school in Mexico.
The Sudweeks applied for a permit in Nephi, Utah to open a treatment facility in April 2001-Whitmore Academy.
NOW how the heck do they add that to come up with 30 years?????
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Sue Scheff is Awarded $11.3 Million in Internet Defamation & Invasion of Privacy Claim in Jury Trial
October 8, 2006
The jury sends a strong message that freedom of speech has limits
Broward County, FL (October 8, 2006) ? The Internet can be as destructive as it can be useful. This case will make people think twice before setting out on a campaign to destroy others.
Sue Scheff?s attorney David Pollack stated, ?No good deed goes unpunished.? Sue Scheff has been a victim of Internet Defamation. After her daughter was abused and harmed at a teen help program (World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools, WWASPS, Carolina Springs Academy), she set out to help others so they would not fall into the same trap.
WWASPS, a corporate giant, filed a lawsuit against Ms. Scheff in 2002 in an attempt to silence her. Ms. Scheff prevailed in a jury trial. WWASPS filed an appeal and again Ms. Scheff prevailed.
It is not often a person is awarded $11.3 million dollars from a jury of their peers. But in the case of Sue Scheff and her organization Parent?s Universal Resource Experts, Inc. (PURE) v. Carey Bock, the jury felt compelled to send a very strong message ? which they have. Included in their $11.3 million dollar verdict, they awarded Sue Scheff and PURE $5 million in punitive damages. ?The punitive damages speak volumes,? says Scheff, ?it was set to punish the defendant for what she did to my children and me. Just because you don?t like someone or what they do, it does not give you carte blanche to post false statements about a person on the Internet.?
Since 2001 PURE and Sue Scheff have helped thousands of families providing various resources for their children as well as works closely with the Coalition Against Institutionalized Child Abuse (CAICA). Isabelle Zehnder of CAICA, said ?you just can?t go around destroying people on the internet. The $11.3 million verdict should send a strong message.? She went on to say, ?We work closely together, our organizations complement each other. We are both against abuse but not against treatment ? there is a big difference.?
In the meantime, Carey Bock maliciously and intentionally started a campaign on an Internet forums against Sue Scheff and her organization, PURE. According to a witness during trial, Ms. Bock?s animosity towards Ms. Scheff had to do with the fact Sue Scheff would not disclose the name of a minor who was raped and Ms. Bock needed this child?s name for a potential documentary she would profit from. Ms. Bock lost that opportunity and went on a campaign to destroy Sue Scheff and PURE. Bock accepted $12,500.00 from WWASPS? attorney, the very organization she claimed harmed her two boys, and the organization that Sue Scheff successfully defeated in a jury trial in August 2004.
One of the witnesses testified Carey Bock was infuriated that Sue Scheff would not provide her with the information about the child. The jurors saw Ms. Bock?s e-mails and postings, one of which threatened: ?Sue, you are going down, I bet you are scared to death!?
With no other way to defend herself and her children, Ms. Scheff filed a lawsuit against Carey Bock and Ginger Warbis/Fornits Website in December 2003.
Ms. Bock was represented by Jan Atlas of Adorno and Yoss until June 2006 when Mr. Atlas withdrew as counsel, shortly after Ms. Bock was deposed and revealed the only reason she defamed and nearly destroyed Sue Scheff and her organization was simply because she didn?t like her. After Jan Atlas withdrew from the case, the Judge postponed the trial to give Ms. Bock ample time to find new counsel or represent herself. Obviously, Ms. Bock chose to ignore these options and did not even attend her own trial.
What is rather shocking is that after Sue Scheff was awarded $11.3 million because she was defamed and harmed on the Internet, and after the Daily Business Review reported this tremendous victory, a press release was submitted filled with false allegations and inaccuracies in an attempt to deflate this victory and to further harm Ms. Scheff. The inaccuracies are as follows:
? They claim Philip Elberg defeated Sue Scheff and PURE on behalf of his client, Ginger Warbis/Fornits.
The case was dismissed without prejudice - meaning it can be brought back to court on the same claim. It was the decision of Sue Scheff and her Attorney, David Pollack, to focus on one defendant. Philip Elberg won nothing from this case.
? They claim Sue Scheff filed a counter-suit against WWASPS that was dismissed.
They fail to say the case was dismissed on a jurisdictional issue, not on the merits of the case.
? They claim Sue Scheff refers children to abusive programs due to her referrals of children to the Whitmore Academy.
For over 30 years The Whitmore had a successful program with no allegations of abuse.
? They claim Cheryl Sudweeks, owner of the Whitmore Academy, pled guilty to specified charges in a Utah criminal court.
Cheryl did not admit any guilt. There was NO substantiated evidence against the Whitmore. The state admittedly had no case and agreed to a plea in abeyance. An article misstated facts and later corrected their mistakes, claiming Cheryl could never run a youth program in the county for the rest of her life. This is not true and they corrected their error.
? They assert Ms. Scheff makes money from the plight of frightened parents.
Ms. Scheff does not charge the parents for her services. To the contrary, Ms. Scheff is a parent and child advocate.
? They claim a Federal Judge told Ms. Scheff to remove misrepresentations from her website showing she had a college degree.
Ms. Scheff?s bio was written by a third-party. Within 24-hours she found the error and had it immediately corrected and removed; the Judge had nothing to do with it.
? They claim Sue Scheff won by default.
A jury of her peers reviewed evidence, deliberated for hours, and concluded her damages equaled $11.3 million dollars, $5 million of which were punitive.
? They claim the case had no merit.
This case had merit - it was defended for over 2 years - the facts spoke for themselves. The trial with a jury verdict of damages over $11.3 million sends a loud message. You can?t post lies and false statements about people simply because you don?t like them or what they do.
? They claim this was an empty and hollow victory.
A verdict of $11.3 million is far from empty or hollow. Whether is it collectible or not, the message is worth $11.3 million. Not all positive gains are weighed financially.
The press release dated October 6, 2006, was filled with inaccuracies and was obviously written to further discredit Sue Scheff and PURE.
After the trial was over, the jurors waited in the hall to meet with Ms. Scheff. They embraced her and told her that they wanted to send a message that people can?t use the Internet to invade a person?s privacy or to destroy lives. They encouraged Sue Scheff to continue her good work with children and families.
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30 years? What? Id like to see some proof of that!
I also love the fib at the end with the emotional appeal :rofl:
Shes really learned well from WWASPS, huh? I wonder when they WWASP-tards will realize theyre doing a great job of training people how to run thier own little programs and edcons!
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Shelby dude you are powerful---whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where the hell have you been?????????????????????
I think our friend and hero, Philip Elberg, attorney at law, sums up SUE SCHEFF when he said "SUE SCHEFF IS SIMPLY ANOTHER PERSON IN THE INDUSTRY OF PEOPLE WHO MAKE MONEY FROM THE PLIGHT OF FRIGHTENED PARENTS."
?Warbis? lawyer, Philip Elberg, of Medvin & Elberg of Newark, New Jersey, sharply criticized Scheff and other people who refer parents to programs for troubled teens. ?People in this industry have consistently used their money and their access to lawyers to silence critics of the industry and this may be one of those examples,? Elberg said. ?Sue Scheff is simply another person in the industry of people who make money from the plight of frightened parents.??
Nice try with your sorry rambling press release IZZY---but you are pathetic. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: ::bwahaha::
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Hey Izzy--can you spin a yarn or what? :P
"The jury sends a strong message that freedom of speech has limits" Why dont ya sue us ya fat SueFool. :rofl: maybe someone will show up at trial and say "boo"
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im thinking about making a website about PURE that tells the truth. so when parents reserching PURE on the internet will see the truth that they are no better than WWASP.
By the way SUE try to "SUE" me in court you will find i will show up in court with a team of lawyers working pro-bono and we will countersue you for maliciouse prosicution and we use your own money to pay for the cause.
Not to mention how embarrising the depos will be for you........
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It is a disgrace that a jury would go for this. A disgrace. This is another reminder why we can't let this country can't be ruined by lawyers.
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It's sissy liberal Democrats like the people on that jury who are going to destroy this country.
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It's control freak Repugnicans who started this whole sordid industry in the first place. It's control freak Repugnicans who got us into an unnecessary war under false pretenses. It's control freak Repugnicans who cover up for kiddie porn fans. It's how many Repugnicans who have been indicted or soon to be for one kind of corruption or another?
They both suck. Repugs have a burning need to control everyone and everything around them and Dems have no clue what's going on. Give me the Libertarian philosophy any day.
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Still think the funniest and craziest thing Sue/Sue falsely claimed (and anyone can read the WWASP transcript if they care to) was that she had psychologist - attorneys on staff; when in fact these professionals merely leased office space in the same building as her office.
Now that's really really stretching the truth, ain't it?
Now Sue/Sue has her friend, Izzy, who is writing all this junk in a press release. But, why not? Sue/Sue can just blame Izzy for any "misconceptions."
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It is a disgrace that a jury would go for this. A disgrace. This is another reminder why we can't let this country can't be ruined by lawyers.
Can't ya read? The JURY did NOt hear the evidence and that is why Sue Scheff won.
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Did Carey Bock atleast attempt to write the Judge explaining her situation? I believe that there is two sides to every story however, if you choose not to speak up then it does make you look guilty. That's just my opinion!
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CCM girl: ARE YOU SERIOUS?
Carey could not afford a lawyer and she had no ability or money to travel to Florida. Most people would be afraid to go in front of a jury in a courtroom with a judge and with Sue Scheff being represented by her lawyer. wOULDN'T YOU BE AFRAID CCMGIRL?
Scheff should be ashamed to do this to someone. This is far worse than Lichfield. Sue Scheff is a silver-spooned never had to work a day in her life RICH BI-person. Big win to be bragging about. This is no win. this is the biggest joke of century.
dont you get it ccm?
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CCM Girl--
I am a certified paralegal and you cannot write a letter to the judge as your case. It would not be allowed because its called hearsay evidence. Carey would have had to go and use the rules to introduce evidence. This would be hard for even me, so no, she was screwed
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Did Carey Bock atleast attempt to write the Judge explaining her situation? I believe that there is two sides to every story however, if you choose not to speak up then it does make you look guilty. That's just my opinion!
Uhh, I think she was busy trying to feed and house her family after Katrina. Carey didn't have a choice in any of this. But that's just my opinion.
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Hey;;; look at Sue Scheff on the CA-CA web site. I saw the documentary and she does not look like this! HAAAAAAAA
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Who cares what Mrs. Scheff-Lichfield looks like. Shes an old bag. its what she did to carey thats were talking about here.
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What does someone like Carey Bock do about an award in the millions? Is she just dogged the rest of her life, financially?
What happens? If she has a job, is her salary "garnished?"
Can she appeal, or has she really just been screwed royally, and and has no recourse?
Even if one is not a "Carey Bock fan," this is highly unfair.
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Why isn't IZZY posting the "DOCUMENT" which is her favorite thing to do, right?
Will believe all this BS when the document is posted, not some rambling so-called "press release" that is full of half-baked opinions and mis-statements, "glorifying" Sue Scheff; whouses the money earned from desperate parents to sue-sue-sue other parents.
Something is terribly wrong here, people.
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Hey Sue-Sue---girl you shoudl be really proud of yourself in beating down a po-white mama who can't defend herself. some big victory you won there in florida. maybe you can sick yer lawyer on her and rip hre to pieces even more like the mad dog you are
get er Sue-Sue, you and yer followers in texas mex.
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If you do this you will be the hero of the year.
maybe youll be named by CA-CA as ADVOCATE OF THE CENTURY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT DO YA THINK FAT IZZY?
im thinking about making a website about PURE that tells the truth. so when parents reserching PURE on the internet will see the truth that they are no better than WWASP.
By the way SUE try to "SUE" me in court you will find i will show up in court with a team of lawyers working pro-bono and we will countersue you for maliciouse prosicution and we use your own money to pay for the cause.
Not to mention how embarrising the depos will be for you........
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CCM girl: ARE YOU SERIOUS?
Carey could not afford a lawyer and she had no ability or money to travel to Florida. Most people would be afraid to go in front of a jury in a courtroom with a judge and with Sue Scheff being represented by her lawyer. wOULDN'T YOU BE AFRAID CCMGIRL?
Scheff should be ashamed to do this to someone. This is far worse than Lichfield. Sue Scheff is a silver-spooned never had to work a day in her life RICH BI-person. Big win to be bragging about. This is no win. this is the biggest joke of century.
dont you get it ccm?
You'd think this judge would have a heart, and postpone it due to her circumstances. Would I be afraid to go up against Sue Scheff, and her lawyers, no. I wouldn't be if what I was saying was true. I don't know the case, and don't know what Carey was saying that got Sue so peeved? I do not like it however when the big school yard bully is picking on someone half their size.
The situation sucks, and if Carey Bock has to file for bankruptsy then that would be devistating. I can see both sides of it. In life people say shit all the time that's not true, and for me I would get really upset at times when it was personally directed at me. But, do a few statements on the internet by someone = 11 million? And who gets to decide if these statements are true or not true? Maybe we should all just start suing one another? I definately have a long list of those people out there who have drug my name and reputation through the mud, and who have done things to purposley hurt me.
First up............
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CCM Girl---
Did you notice in the ISAC press release that Scheff ran like a baby when her lawyer was up against a real lawyer, Philip Elberg? Poof! case gone. Oh yea scheff is real tough.
its only a matter of time and scheff will be pulverized in court.
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I don't know the case, and don't know what Carey was saying that got Sue so peeved?
I can see both sides of it.
Wha? Uh, ok.
The judge didn't see both sides. The jury didn't see both sides. What happened is that Sue saw Carey as a danger to her livelihood (referring kids to TBS and RTCs whether or not there are abuse charges currently pending) and set out to stop her. Carey is a single parent trying to recover from Katrina and help her kids recover from being locked up in an abusive facility. Sue is a So. FL. rich bitch who makes her living off of gullible parents that mistakenly put their trust into her and she'll stop at NOTHING in her attempts to squash anyone who dares reveal what she's really up to.
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They are asking for reader comments on the story below. Hey, Sue doesn't look so hotsie totsie anymore. The University of Florida law professor has got your number, Sue.
http://www.p2pnet.net/story/10088 (http://www.p2pnet.net/story/10088)
$11.3M online defamation award
p2pnet.net News:- The $11.3 million awarded to a Florida woman for alleged online defamation suit is "astonishing" says University of Florida law professor Lyrissa Lidsky.
Her remark came in reference to a suit lodged against a Louisiana woman who posted messages on the Internet accusing her of being a "crook," a "con artist" and a "fraud," says USA Today, quoting the Daily Business Review.
Sue Scheff of Weston, Florida, "pursued the case even though she knew the defendant, Carey Bock of Mandeville, La., has no hope of paying such an award," says the story.
"Bock, who had to leave her home for several months because of Hurricane Katrina, couldn't afford an attorney and didn't show up for the trial."
Scheff wanted to make a point to those who unfairly criticize others on the Internet, says the story. "I'm sure (Bock) doesn't have $1 million, let alone $11 million, but the message is strong and clear," it has her saying. "People are using the Internet to destroy people they don't like, and you can't do that."
Bock had, "publicly criticized the business practices of Scheff and PURE in referring children to allegedly abusive programs," says the International Survivors Action Committee (ISAC), going on:
"Scheff met the mother?s complaints with a lawsuit. The mom lacked the financial resources to defend herself or to attend her own trial in Florida. As a result, without the benefit of hearing the mom?s side of the story, a jury had little choice but to award the $11.3 million dollar verdict requested by the lawyer for Scheff and her company.
"Before trial, Ms. Bock relocated her small family from the New Orleans area to Texas in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. This, however, did not stop Scheff and PURE from coming full-steam after the mom for alleged defamation and other claims."
Scheff, who runs the Parents Universal Resource Experts referral service, says she referred Bock to a consultant who helped Bock retrieve her sons from a boarding school in Costa Rica, says USA Today, and, "Afterward, Bock became critical of Scheff and posted negative messages about her on the Internet site Fornits.com, where parents with children in boarding schools for troubled teens confer with one another."
"In 2003, Scheff sued Bock for defamation. Bock hired a lawyer, but he left the case when she no longer could afford to pay him."
A separate lawsuit filed in Utah against Scheff and PURE by the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs (WWASP) made similar allegations, resulting in Scheff losing counter-claims, says ISAC, adding:
"Scheff, however, was not found liable for claims of damage to WWASP that Scheff allegedly caused when Scheff posted Internet statements asserting child abuse by WWASP. Scheff admitted she used false names to do so. Scheff was reportedly told by a Utah federal judge to remove misrepresentations from her web site showing Scheff holds a college degree.
"The Florida verdict also ignored abuse allegations at children?s programs to which Scheff refers families because the jury never heard the opposing evidence. The owner of one such program to which Scheff made referrals, Whitmore Academy, recently pled guilty to specified charges in a Utah criminal court."
[FROM:- p2pnet.ca]
Also See:
USA Today - Jury awards $11.3M over defamatory Internet posts, October 10, 2006
ISAC - Sue Scheff And Florida Company Win Empty Victory Over New Orleans Mom, October 7, 2006
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(Wednesday 11th October 2006)
[ POST A COMMENT TO THIS STORY ]
Comments:
? Re: $11.3M online defamation award by Reader's Write
? hmmm .. by Reader's Write
? free speech is very expensive by Reader's Write
________________________________________
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Sue Scheff and PURE Win Empty Victory over New Orleans Mom
International Survivors Action Committee (ISAC)
10/9/2006 9:21:45 PM
BROWARD COUNTY, FLORIDA (October 10, 2006) - On September 19, 2006, Parents Universal Resource Experts, Inc. (PURE) and its founder, Sue Scheff of Weston, Florida won an $11.3 million dollar victory of hollow sorts over a single mom from New Orleans by alleging defamation over the Internet. Although it is doubtful the verdict will be collected, it may serve to chill free speech of those attempting to expose child abuse or untoward business practices.
The mom, Carey Bock, had publicly criticized the business practices of Scheff and PURE in referring children to allegedly abusive programs. Scheff met the mother?s complaints with a lawsuit reminiscent of one filed against Scheff in 2001.
The mom lacked the financial resources to defend herself or to attend her own trial in Florida. Before trial, Ms. Bock relocated her small family from the New Orleans area to Texas in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. This, however, did not stop Scheff and PURE from coming full-steam after the mom for alleged defamation and other claims. As a result, without the benefit of hearing the mom?s side of the story, a jury had little choice but to award the $11.3 million dollar verdict requested by the lawyer for Scheff and her company.
According to the Daily Business Review, Scheff also named Ginger Warbis as co-defendant. Warbis, who runs a web site critical of Scheff, obtained a well-known lawyer who successfully defeated Scheff?s claims of defamation: ?Warbis? lawyer, Philip Elberg, of Medvin & Elberg of Newark, New Jersey, sharply criticized Scheff and other people who refer parents to programs for troubled teens. ?People in this industry have consistently used their money and their access to lawyers to silence critics of the industry and this may be one of those examples,? Elberg said. ?Sue Scheff is simply another person in the industry of people who make money from the plight of frightened parents.??
The Daily Business Review, noting that Scheff won effectively only by default, paraphrased Scheff?s attorney, stating, ?Bock was not present for the jury trial, which was held to determine damages only. . . .?
Ironically, a separate lawsuit had been filed in Utah against Scheff and PURE by the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs (WWASP), containing similar allegations as those raised by Scheff against the New Orleans mom. Scheff lost all counter-claims against WWASP but was not found liable for claims of damage allegedly caused when Scheff posted Internet statements asserting child abuse by WWASP. Scheff admitted she used false names to do so. While her case pended, Scheff removed representations from her web site which falsely stated Scheff holds a college degree.
The recent Florida verdict also ignored abuse allegations at children?s programs to which Scheff refers families because the jury never heard the opposing evidence. The owner of one such program to which Scheff made referrals, Whitmore Academy, was initially charged with multiple counts of child abuse and hazing in connection with four children at the boarding school. The owner recently pled no contest to four counts of hazing, and was ordered to pay fines and complete community service. The prosecuting attorney told the Deseret News, ?I believe it effectively shuts them down in the state of Utah.? According to a September 2006 news article by the Deseret News, ?The former operator of a therapeutic school [Whitmore Academy] for troubled youths, who has been kicked out of Mexico and accused of starving horses in Canada, has agreed not to run another rehabilitation school in Juab County.?
The allegations of child abuse did not deter Scheff from enrolling children for a profitable sum of money. In a separate case, the United States Court of Appeals found that defendants PURE and Sue Scheff, "[C]ompete with the schools associated with World Wide. PURE schools pay Ms. Scheff a substantial sum whenever a child enrolls in its program based on her recommendation."
According to the non-profit International Survivors Action Committee (ISAC), Scheff and her company are on the ISAC ?watch list? for questionable practices that may place children at risk for abuse or neglect. ####
Sources:
http://www.isaccorp.org/ (http://www.isaccorp.org/)
http://www.helpatanycost.com/ (http://www.helpatanycost.com/)
http://www.isaccorp.org/referrals.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/referrals.asp)
http://michellesuttonmemorial.homestead.com/ (http://michellesuttonmemorial.homestead.com/)
http://www.help-for-teen.com/ (http://www.help-for-teen.com/)
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/home.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/home.html)
http://www.wwaspinfo.com/ (http://www.wwaspinfo.com/)
http://www.teenhelpindustry.info/ (http://www.teenhelpindustry.info/)
http://www.paulareeves.com/ (http://www.paulareeves.com/)
http://www.ethicaltreatment.org/ (http://www.ethicaltreatment.org/)
http://www.kathymoya.com/index.html (http://www.kathymoya.com/index.html)
http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp ... &aId=19977 (http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?SESSIONID=&aId=19977)
http://www.majon.com/advanced/pressrele ... eeves.html (http://www.majon.com/advanced/pressreleases/paulareeves.html)
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,650192749,00.html (http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,650192749,00.html)
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Better be careful Professor Lyrissa Lidsky!
Sue-Sue will be coming after you with her big-bad-lawyer, Mr. Pollack. And, everyone knows educators, like professors, don't make MILLIONS a year!
But, what the hell, Sue-Sue can sue you anyway, for MILLIONS. She doesn't care if she collects or not! She WILL NOT have anyone saying anything negative against her, professor! Don't you get it?
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Um... I don't think Professor Lidsky would be too intimidated by anyone. Check out her credentials. Pretty damn impressive by all accounts.
http://www.law.ufl.edu/faculty/lidsky/ (http://www.law.ufl.edu/faculty/lidsky/)
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Sarcasm. :wink:
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Why would Sue-Sue go after a professor of law when she can go after poor Katrina survivors? It would be better if Sue planned her next attack on a crippled wheelchair mentally retarded person. Get em Sue! You can do it. Get you another $11.3 million dollar verdict. :rofl:
Hey, sue come and get all of us.
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http://webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?SES ... &aId=21910 (http://webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?SESSIONID=&aId=21910)
Sue Scheff Wins $11.3 Million in Internet Defamation & Invasion of Privacy Claim in Jury Trial
The jury sends a strong message that freedom of speech has limits
Broward County, FL (October 11, 2006) ? The Internet can be as destructive as it can be useful. This case will make people think twice before setting out on a campaign to destroy others.
Sue Scheff?s attorney David Pollack stated, ?No good deed goes unpunished.? Sue Scheff has been a victim of Internet Defamation. After her daughter was abused and harmed at a teen help program (World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools, WWASPS, Carolina Springs Academy), she set out to help others so they would not fall into the same trap.
WWASPS, a corporate giant, filed a lawsuit against Ms. Scheff in 2002 in an attempt to silence her. Ms. Scheff prevailed in a jury trial. WWASPS filed an appeal and again Ms. Scheff prevailed.
It is not often a person is awarded $11.3 million dollars from a jury of their peers. But in the case of Sue Scheff and her organization Parent?s Universal Resource Experts, Inc. (PURE) v. Carey Bock, the jury felt compelled to send a very strong message ? which they have. Included in their $11.3 million dollar verdict, they awarded Sue Scheff and PURE $5 million in punitive damages. ?The punitive damages speak volumes,? says Scheff, ?it was set to punish the defendant for what she did to my children and me. Just because you don?t like someone or what they do, it does not give you carte blanche to post false statements about a person on the Internet.?
Since 2001 PURE and Sue Scheff have helped thousands of families providing various resources for their children as well as works closely with the Coalition Against Institutionalized Child Abuse (CAICA). Isabelle Zehnder of CAICA, said ?you just can?t go around destroying people on the internet. The $11.3 million verdict should send a strong message.? She went on to say, ?We work closely together, our organizations complement each other. We are both against abuse but not against treatment ? there is a big difference.?
In the meantime, Carey Bock maliciously and intentionally started a campaign on an Internet forums against Sue Scheff and her organization, PURE. According to a witness during trial, Ms. Bock?s animosity towards Ms. Scheff had to do with the fact Sue Scheff would not disclose the name of a minor who was raped and Ms. Bock needed this child?s name for a potential documentary she would profit from. Ms. Bock lost that opportunity and went on a campaign to destroy Sue Scheff and PURE. Bock accepted $12,500.00 from WWASPS? attorney, the very organization she claimed harmed her two boys, and the organization that Sue Scheff successfully defeated in a jury trial in August 2004.
One of the witnesses testified Carey Bock was infuriated that Sue Scheff would not provide her with the information about the child. The jurors saw Ms. Bock?s e-mails and postings, one of which threatened: ?Sue, you are going down, I bet you are scared to death!?
With no other way to defend herself and her children, Ms. Scheff filed a lawsuit against Carey Bock and Ginger Warbis/Fornits Website in December 2003.
Ms. Bock was represented by Jan Atlas of Adorno and Yoss until June 2006 when Mr. Atlas withdrew as counsel, shortly after Ms. Bock was deposed and revealed the only reason she defamed and nearly destroyed Sue Scheff and her organization was simply because she didn?t like her. After Jan Atlas withdrew from the case, the Judge postponed the trial to give Ms. Bock ample time to find new counsel or represent herself. Obviously, Ms. Bock chose to ignore these options and did not even attend her own trial.
What is rather shocking is that after Sue Scheff was awarded $11.3 million because she was defamed and harmed on the Internet, and after the Daily Business Review reported this tremendous victory, a press release was submitted filled with false allegations and inaccuracies in an attempt to deflate this victory and to further harm Ms. Scheff. The inaccuracies are as follows:
? They claim Philip Elberg defeated Sue Scheff and PURE on behalf of his client, Ginger Warbis/Fornits.
The case was dismissed without prejudice - meaning it can be brought back to court on the same claim. It was the decision of Sue Scheff and her Attorney, David Pollack, to focus on one defendant. Philip Elberg won nothing from this case.
? They claim Sue Scheff filed a counter-suit against WWASPS that was dismissed.
They fail to say the case was dismissed on a jurisdictional issue, not on the merits of the case.
? They claim Sue Scheff refers children to abusive programs due to her referrals of children to the Whitmore Academy.
For over 30 years The Whitmore had a successful program with no allegations of abuse.
? They claim Cheryl Sudweeks, owner of the Whitmore Academy, pled guilty to specified charges in a Utah criminal court.
Cheryl did not admit any guilt. There was NO substantiated evidence against the Whitmore. The state admittedly had no case and agreed to a plea in abeyance. An article misstated facts and later corrected their mistakes, claiming Cheryl could never run a youth program in the county for the rest of her life. This is not true and they corrected their error.
? They assert Ms. Scheff makes money from the plight of frightened parents.
Ms. Scheff does not charge the parents for her services. To the contrary, Ms. Scheff is a parent and child advocate.
? They claim a Federal Judge told Ms. Scheff to remove misrepresentations from her website showing she had a college degree.
Ms. Scheff?s bio was written by a third-party. Within 24-hours she found the error and had it immediately corrected and removed; the Judge had nothing to do with it.
? They claim Sue Scheff won by default.
A jury of her peers reviewed evidence, deliberated for hours, and concluded her damages equaled $11.3 million dollars, $5 million of which were punitive.
? They claim the case had no merit.
This case had merit - it was defended for over 2 years - the facts spoke for themselves. The trial with a jury verdict of damages over $11.3 million sends a loud message. You can?t post lies and false statements about people simply because you don?t like them or what they do.
? They claim this was an empty and hollow victory.
A verdict of $11.3 million is far from empty or hollow. Whether is it collectible or not, the message is worth $11.3 million. Not all positive gains are weighed financially.
The press release dated October 10, 2006, was filled with inaccuracies and was obviously written to further discredit Sue Scheff and PURE.
After the trial was over, the jurors waited in the hall to meet with Ms. Scheff. They embraced her and told her that they wanted to send a message that people can?t use the Internet to invade a person?s privacy or to destroy lives. They encouraged Sue Scheff to continue her good work with children and families.
In October 2006, Sue Scheff was honored as "Child Advocate of the Month" by the Coalition Against Institutionalized Child Abuse. Furthermore, on October 9, 2006, the Miami Herald spotlighted Sue Scheff and PURE for their dedication to helping families.
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http://www.p2pnet.net/index.php?page=co ... ent=128644 (http://www.p2pnet.net/index.php?page=comment&story=10088&comment=128644)
? They claim Philip Elberg defeated Sue Scheff and PURE on behalf of his client, Ginger Warbis/Fornits.
The case was dismissed without prejudice - meaning it can be brought back to court on the same claim. It was the decision of Sue Scheff and her Attorney, David Pollack, to focus on one defendant. Philip Elberg won nothing from this case.
Why hasn't she brought it again then? She'll sue Carey who has no means of defending herself but when they come up against a real lawyer, the run.
? They claim Sue Scheff filed a counter-suit against WWASPS that was dismissed.
They fail to say the case was dismissed on a jurisdictional issue, not on the merits of the case.
Then bring the case again. Surely with this win you're confident you'd prevail here too, right?
? They claim Sue Scheff refers children to abusive programs due to her referrals of children to the Whitmore Academy.
For over 30 years The Whitmore had a successful program with no allegations of abuse.
The Whitmore hasn't even been in business for 30 years and Sue most certainly did refer parents to Whitmore long after the abuse allegations arose and charges had been filed.
? They claim Cheryl Sudweeks, owner of the Whitmore Academy, pled guilty to specified charges in a Utah criminal court.
Cheryl did not admit any guilt. There was NO substantiated evidence against the Whitmore. The state admittedly had no case and agreed to a plea in abeyance. An article misstated facts and later corrected their mistakes, claiming Cheryl could never run a youth program in the county for the rest of her life. This is not true and they corrected their error.
Cheryl pled 'no contest' to hazing....not attempted hazing...hazing. The state said they were worried about some credibility issues with witnesses. You're talking about kids who have already been labeled "troubled". it's not so difficult to see why he was reluctant to put them on the stand.
? They assert Ms. Scheff makes money from the plight of frightened parents.
Ms. Scheff does not charge the parents for her services. To the contrary, Ms. Scheff is a parent and child advocate.
No, it's worse. Sue Scheff gets paid by the schools she refers to. She absolutely does make money off the plight of frightened parents.
? They claim a Federal Judge told Ms. Scheff to remove misrepresentations from her website showing she had a college degree.
Ms. Scheff?s bio was written by a third-party. Within 24-hours she found the error and had it immediately corrected and removed; the Judge had nothing to do with it.
Mmm hmmm. And the psychologist and attorney that were supposedly employed by or associated with PURE??? Turns out there was an attorney who WORKED IN THE SAME BUILDING. That's not exactly part of your staff now, is it?
? They claim Sue Scheff won by default.
A jury of her peers reviewed evidence, deliberated for hours, and concluded her damages equaled $11.3 million dollars, $5 million of which were punitive.
A jury of her peers never laid eyes on Carey or heard anything in her defense. The woman was busy putting her life together after Katrina. She was busy helping her kids cope with life after being subjected to an abusive facility. She had absolutely no money for an attorney or to even travel for the court appearances. How exactly do you surmise that the jury 'reviewed all the evidence'?
? They claim the case had no merit.
This case had merit - it was defended for over 2 years - the facts spoke for themselves. The trial with a jury verdict of damages over $11.3 million sends a loud message. You can?t post lies and false statements about people simply because you don?t like them or what they do.
It was not defended. At all. It's not a matter of not liking Sue, although I don't at all, it's a matter of the truth.
? They claim this was an empty and hollow victory.
A verdict of $11.3 million is far from empty or hollow. Whether is it collectible or not, the message is worth $11.3 million. Not all positive gains are weighed financially.
It is hollow. A sham and a shame. Sue should be ashamed of herself.
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Sue Scheff referred to Whitmore Academy which has no allegations of abuse?
What about the civil case, and the ongoing depositons?
There are plenty of allegations of abuse; better believe it!
Why? Because the abuse happened, that's why!
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There's been a plea to hazing. Four counts I think. Sue was aware of first the allegations and then the charges and STILL kept referring people there.
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Sue/Sue sure did keep referring kids after the criminal investigation was underway, and she kept supporting the Suds big time!!!!
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Better back off that one, IZZY; and let Sue/Sue tell THAT ONE herself.
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Izzy will be hearing: "Izzy said that, NOT ME."
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Didn't Sue-Sue blame some 3rd party for writing her erroneous BIO which stated she/Scheff had a college DEGREE, when, of course she had no college degree.
And this same BIO said she had some type of "extensive medical background," when she actually only had some type of clerical job at some medical type place--but then, again, this 3rd party wrote the BIO, not Scheff.
So, IZZY--the press-release-writer will just be blamed for any errors here, too. That's how the Sue-Sue game is played.
But, damn! A game with an $11 million prize is absolutely crazy!
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Does Sue Scheff have a GED or high school diploma? What about Izzy?
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Someone responded to the lie below promoted by Sue Scheff and Izzy. It is a good response but to be perfectly clear, Sue Scheff and her business partner, Marie Peart (formerly married to the brother of Robert Lichfield's wife) do make money straight from the bank accounts of parents.
The parents pay the money to the school as additional charges and then the money is routed to PURE/Sue Scheff/and or Marie Peart.
Scheff then lies--yes lies--and tells parents she is only a resource and does not get paid from parents.
That is okay Sue. Your day is on the horizon. Lichfield and WWASP let you off easy. Carey could not defend herself because she is poor and helpless but others are on the way.
"Ms. Scheff does not charge the parents for her services. To the contrary, Ms. Scheff is a parent and child advocate. (Izzy and Caica)
No, it's worse. Sue Scheff gets paid by the schools she refers to. She absolutely does make money off the plight of frightened parents." (someones response to the Izzy/Scheff lie)
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"Maybe those TWO like reading all that part of the complaint about RICO and illegal use of mail, telephones, mail etc...and wondering how they might just fit into the equation, huh?"
Hmmm......are you saying some really good law firm or law firms just "may" be suing Sue-Sue? What about all the evidence she illegally destroyed? Maybe that will be coming out?
Sue brags about spending a million against WWASP but that was insurance money wasnt it? She likes to spend her mamas money so she would love being sued.
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Okay, are you saying Sue-Sue and Martha could be cell mates?
"Maybe those TWO like reading all that part of the complaint about RICO and illegal use of mail, telephones, mail etc...and wondering how they might just fit into the equation, huh?"
Hmmm......are you saying some really good law firm or law firms just "may" be suing Sue-Sue? What about all the evidence she illegally destroyed? Maybe that will be coming out?
Sue brags about spending a million against WWASP but that was insurance money wasnt it? She likes to spend her mamas money so she would love being sued.
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::deal:: A few little papers on Sue.
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I would never share a cell with Sue Scheff!
All I did was change a little email and then change it back on my secretary's computer.
I did not destroy certain evidence asked for in a court case. I do not refer kids to the Whitmore academies of the world. I do have morals.
Please!
Martha
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What "evidence" do you know that Sue Scheff destroyed? Can you just post that without proof that she did such a thing? Not saying that she didn't, just wondering what she destroyed.
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Izzy lloves to post court documents, right?
Think she'd post Sue/Sue's divorce documents? Those would be great reading, don't you think?
And, no blacking out of names, IZZY, OK?
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So, Sue/Sue likes to spend Mama's money?
What was Sue/Sue's maiden name? Who is MAMA?
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Izzy--can you answer the question below because your an expert in figuring out Sue-Sue puzzles and how the law works. you are a paralegal arent you? you told everyone you are a paralegal didnt you? but then it came out you were a receptionist or secretary who got fired from a lawfirm. you are Sue-Sue press writing bitch arent you? you know it all dont you?
so help us all out here izzy! can someone post this without prood that she did such a thing izzy.. or maybe there is proof that Sue-Sue destroyed evidence?
What "evidence" do you know that Sue Scheff destroyed? Can you just post that without proof that she did such a thing? Not saying that she didn't, just wondering what she destroyed.
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::deal:: A few little papers on Sue.
Come on Sue-Sue. Bring on more lawsuits so the truth can really start to come out on you...................... :P :D :P
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Just curious-----does the name Elberg bug ya? Bring on another lawsute
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Do it Sue-Sue!!!!!!!!!!!! Bring on just ONE MORE lawsuite cause yer gonna go down next time in a VERY big way. -M-
? They claim Philip Elberg defeated Sue Scheff and PURE on behalf of his client, Ginger Warbis/Fornits.
The case was dismissed without prejudice - meaning it can be brought back to court on the same claim. It was the decision of Sue Scheff and her Attorney, David Pollack, to focus on one defendant. Philip Elberg won nothing from this case.
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So sue-sue and her friends can defame?
"http://www.browardpta.com/_disc1/0000001f.htm
Re: Beware of referrals by Sue Scheff
From: A Student
Date: 03 Dec 2004
Time: 11:17:32
Remote Name: 65.103.224.14
Comments
Good afternoon, Ms. Harris. I see you are still having issues with your apparently bi-polar personality(s). I'd like to inform you all that this woman, with all her accusations against Sue Scheff and the academy she sent her daughter to, abuses her daughter. She was one of my good friends and told me about this along with the other kids at the academy. The words she used were, "Mom does the beatings, Dad does the spankings." When she came to pick up her daughter, every word she spoke to her was discouraging, degrating, and overall depressing and completely unfair to the young girl. Harris has been accused of child abuse three times and convicted of one. This was obviously true when we saw her drag her daughter by the hair and then throw her face first down the staircase. The girl ran inside and clung to one of her friends as Harris was stealing her away and begged not to let her be taken. The girl was very afraid and did not at all want to go. So before you listen to this woman's futile babble, listen to the facts first. Thank you"
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Beware of Bounty Hunters for WWASP/WWASPS
From: Sue Scheff
Date: 02 Sep 2003
Time: 12:00:01
Remote Name: 64.12.96.43
Comments
Dear Donna, I have known you for several years now, and have so much respect for what you did to get your boys back home safe. I only wish I had read your statement prior being recruited by WWASP/WWASPS. My daughter ended up in one of their programs and the results were horrific. I was desperate and they took advantage of me with the misrepresentation of their program. Since that time, back in 2000, there is now a Class Action Lawsuit against them getting ready to be filed. It is being filed by The Huron Law Group, with the support of Ed Masry and Erin Brockovich. There will be justice for our children and ourselves. Since this happened, I felt a need to give parents a resource avenue to help them when they are desperate, as I once was. I have created PURE, Inc. www.helpyourteens.com (http://www.helpyourteens.com) to help parents find safe and qualifed schools and programs and also offer a listing of adolescent local therapists. We have been approved by the Broward County School District and the Better Business Bureau. Thank you for giving us an opportunity to let parents know our experiences. Sincerely, Sue Scheff Weston, FL [email protected]
dsda0h
From: dsda0h
Date: 04 Aug 2005
Time: 03:40:43
Remote Name: 219.134.253.12
Comments
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I only wish I had read your statement prior being recruited by WWASP/WWASPS. My daughter ended up in one of their programs and the results were horrific. I was desperate and they took advantage of me with the misrepresentation of their program.
Didnt she pull her kid something like six months before this email was written?
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So, Sue/Sue likes to spend Mama's money?
What was Sue/Sue's maiden name? Who is MAMA?
Except for the money she takes from parents............mamas money is all shes got to live on. shes a RICH B...........something the recent press releases missed
wehe she says she spent almost a MILLION on her defense of wwasp----she means INSURANCE money.
but bring on anonther one sue cause you got some lawyers ready to go at you for free to defend others go on, get yer subpeonas out
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So sue-sue and her friends can defame?
"http://www.browardpta.com/_disc1/0000001f.htm
Re: Beware of referrals by Sue Scheff
From: A Student
Date: 03 Dec 2004
Time: 11:17:32
Remote Name: 65.103.224.14
Comments
Good afternoon, Ms. Harris. I see you are still having issues with your apparently bi-polar personality(s). I'd like to inform you all that this woman, with all her accusations against Sue Scheff and the academy she sent her daughter to, abuses her daughter. She was one of my good friends and told me about this along with the other kids at the academy. The words she used were, "Mom does the beatings, Dad does the spankings." When she came to pick up her daughter, every word she spoke to her was discouraging, degrating, and overall depressing and completely unfair to the young girl. Harris has been accused of child abuse three times and convicted of one. This was obviously true when we saw her drag her daughter by the hair and then throw her face first down the staircase. The girl ran inside and clung to one of her friends as Harris was stealing her away and begged not to let her be taken. The girl was very afraid and did not at all want to go. So before you listen to this woman's futile babble, listen to the facts first. Thank you"
Maybe the person who posted this should consider the information obtained by ISAC which does NOT seem to support their allegations, and in fact, presents a much different picture.
http://isaccorp.org/documentsnz.asp#whitmore (http://isaccorp.org/documentsnz.asp#whitmore)
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You are aware that not only did Sue ship her daughter off to a WWASP school, she shipped her son off to military school. She wasn't interested in being a parent of any kind. Isn't this right Sue?
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So sue-sue and her friends can defame?
"http://www.browardpta.com/_disc1/0000001f.htm
Re: Beware of referrals by Sue Scheff
From: A Student
Date: 03 Dec 2004
Time: 11:17:32
Remote Name: 65.103.224.14
Comments
Good afternoon, Ms. Harris. I see you are still having issues with your apparently bi-polar personality(s). I'd like to inform you all that this woman, with all her accusations against Sue Scheff and the academy she sent her daughter to, abuses her daughter. She was one of my good friends and told me about this along with the other kids at the academy. The words she used were, "Mom does the beatings, Dad does the spankings." When she came to pick up her daughter, every word she spoke to her was discouraging, degrating, and overall depressing and completely unfair to the young girl. Harris has been accused of child abuse three times and convicted of one. This was obviously true when we saw her drag her daughter by the hair and then throw her face first down the staircase. The girl ran inside and clung to one of her friends as Harris was stealing her away and begged not to let her be taken. The girl was very afraid and did not at all want to go. So before you listen to this woman's futile babble, listen to the facts first. Thank you"
From ISAC:
Additional Comments from the Director of ISAC, posted on February 16, 2005:
In a telephone conversation on Friday, February 11, 2005 with ISAC Director Shelby Earnshaw, Mark Sudweeks claimed that Joyce Harris "dragged her daughter out [of Whitmore Academy] by the hair."
In the days following, ISAC became aware of statements reportedly made by another interested party who claimed to have a copy of the incident report filed by the Nephi City Police Officer who accompanied Joyce Harris to Whitmore Academy.
Along with this claim, this third person also reportedly said that the incident report stated that Mrs. Harris had dragged her daughter by the hair.
This person also reportedly stated that the police officers investigating the case do not believe Mrs. Harris.
Because ISAC is committed to reporting FACTUAL INFORMATION, Director Shelby Earnshaw spoke directly to the investigator in charge of the case on Tuesday, February 15, 2005.
Among other things, the investigator stated that he believes Joyce Harris is "very credible."
During that conversation, ISAC also learned that due to a clerical error, the incident report in question had never been entered into the computer and DID NOT EXIST prior to ISAC's phone call to the Nephi City Police on February 15, 2005.
Therefore, it would not be possible for Mark Sudweeks or any other persons to have a copy of the report in question.
Today, Wednesday February 16, ISAC obtained a copy of the report made by the Nephi City Police on the night that Joyce Harris removed her daughter from Whitmore Academy.
It is not public record so only excerpts will be posted on this site, however the report supports the fact that statements accusing Mrs. Harris of dragging her daughter by the hair, are false.
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::deal:: A few little papers on Sue.
Come on Sue-Sue. Bring on more lawsuits so the truth can really start to come out on you.. :P :D :P
::armed::
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Still confused about the WWASP vs PURE lawsuit.
Scheff says she WON this lawsuit.
Wasn't she actually only found NOT GUILTY?
How's that a WIN?
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Still confused about the WWASP vs PURE lawsuit.
Scheff says she WON this lawsuit.
Wasn't she actually only found NOT GUILTY?
How's that a WIN?
Read the transcripts. Sue did a number of things that would normally result in a loss, meaning being found guilty of libel. However, she was able to convince the jury she did what she did because WWASPS was abusive. If WWASPS doesn't hurt kids as mentioned in the testimony, Sue would've lost the case.
Maybe that's not a win to you. But it sure isn't a loss.
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In other words: Sue Scheff and WWASP are BAD BAD BAD?
Got it!
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Why is it that you all think that Sue is a bad person do you know her personally or do you go on what the media is payed to say by WWASP could you be as stupid to think that WWASP does not have extend power I mean they fund the Utah elections and why is it that you think they still exist because they are helping? nope wrong it's because they make tons of money and pay the right people off to keep helpless Teens and Pre-teens in prison to scam there parents. I will be the first to say I support Sue and Isabelle in there fight I support the Turley law firm in it's movement against WWASP however small it may seem now even greater things shall come from it. ::both::
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notstupidlikeyou?
No. You are uniquely stupid.
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NOTSTUPID LIKE YOU: you got a kid you wanna pay Sue/SUE to send to some abusive program?
Do that, then come back here and post.
If you still like Sue/SUE then you are stupid.
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fun fun do you know Isabelle or Sue? because I do and i'm personally involved in a law suit that Isabelle and Sue have helped come this far you sad little cry babies don't know shit and if you get pissed fine you don't know them personally and you play into WWASP funded media bullshit you let them win whether you went to the program or not and if you did attend a program high five because they brain washed the hell out of you and you deserve to be angry and naive. :flame:
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No, you stupid fuck. WWASPS is bad and abusive. So are some of the programs Sue refers to. Even after abuse charges have been actually FILED!!
Tell me how you defend that. Please, I'd really like to hear this. I saw the response saying that Whitmore had 30 years of abuse free service to kids. Whitmore was in business 30 years with Cheryl at the helm?? Really? What is her reasoning for continuing to refer to Whitmore after the abuse charges have been filed?
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First of all, Whitmore Academy--with Cheryl Sudweeks at the helm was NEVER in business for any 30 years!
And I, too would like to hear Sue Scheff's defense for continuing to refer children and their parents to Whitmore Academy during the criminal investigation, and after Cheryl Sudweeks was charged with criminal child abuse and hazing of 4 children.
No one is saying WWASP is anything good.
Scheff knew that when she was referring parents and children to WWASP.
But, knowing WWASP is bad, doesn't make Scheff referring to any abusive program OK.
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What lawsuit is Izzy and Sue-SUE helping you with?
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Why is it that you all think that Sue is a bad person do you know her personally or do you go on what the media is payed to say by WWASP could you be as stupid to think that WWASP does not have extend power I mean they fund the Utah elections and why is it that you think they still exist because they are helping? nope wrong it's because they make tons of money and pay the right people off to keep helpless Teens and Pre-teens in prison to scam there parents. I will be the first to say I support Sue and Isabelle in there fight I support the Turley law firm in it's movement against WWASP however small it may seem now even greater things shall come from it. ::both::
It would be a lot easier to understand your posts if you didn't constantly use run-on sentences moron.
I think Sue is a bad person for continuing to refer parents to programs that are under investigation for abuse. I think she's a bad person for referring parents to programs when abuse charges have actually been filed. Can you explain to me why she did that? Can you explain to me why you don't have a problem with that? ::both:: ::fuckoff::
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Turley Law Firm and their "movement"? It's a law firm, for pete's sake ... not an advocacy or activist group. They are getting paid for their work are they not? Nothing wrong with that, of course, but let's keep it in perspective shall we?
Having said that, I think most people would agree that the true victims of the troubled teen industry racket are the kids. While it's unfortunate the parents feel they were "defauded" --- all they lost was money. Their children lost something that can never be replaced. Any financial reward should go to the children, IMO. They had no say in their abusive treatment and while their parents may claim it was a decision they deeply regret, they should be held accountable for funding the maltreatment of their child. How many of these parents signed away the rights of their own child to talk to them on the phone? Write to them freely (meaning non-censored)? Complain about abusive conditions? I would imagine most of them. What kind of parent does that? Cuts off communication with their own kid until the program says they can? That's just plain nuts. Where's the accountability on the part of parents? It's a tough question I admit but one that needs to be addressed if other parents are going to wise up and realize there are consequences to outsourcing "parenting".
:flame:
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your all crazy if you only knew have of what you think you know you'd be some what smart. hehe lol instead of living you cry and bitch about other smarter and better people than you'll ever be wise up and grow up. Half wits.
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your all crazy if you only knew have of what you think you know you'd be some what smart. hehe lol instead of living you cry and bitch about other smarter and better people than you'll ever be wise up and grow up. Half wits.
Is that so? Well guess what? You can't spell or even write a coherent sentence so in my opinion, that makes you look like a big fat stupid head.
".... if you only knew have (correct word is HALF) of what you think ..."
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Ah, ya. We need to get smart like you. This topic is about Sue Scheff and her egomania and her "mini-me" Izzy/Caica.
your all crazy if you only knew have of what you think you know you'd be some what smart. hehe lol instead of living you cry and bitch about other smarter and better people than you'll ever be wise up and grow up. Half wits.
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your all crazy if you only knew have of what you think you know you'd be some what smart. hehe lol instead of living you cry and bitch about other smarter and better people than you'll ever be wise up and grow up. Half wits.
Might I suggest this...
(http://http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/1567187986.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg)
And while you're at it, answer the question about Sue referring to abusive programs.
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The question about Scheff referring to other abusive facilities will not be answered---because that is their game, IMO.
As long as there is the ANIT-WWASP slogan, it appears that Scheff referring to any other program that may be abusing kids is just fine in some people's book.
How does that make any sense?
Abuse is abuse.
Think a kid who has been abused really cares what the name of the facility is?
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Someone posted that Sue Scheff was very upset/angry about the "red panties" episode.
What is that about? Another lawsuit?
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Sue Scheff refers people to other programs with reason and probaly damn good research because if you forget morons Sue Scheff had a child in WWASP to and not all programs designed to help troubled teens are abusive. You people hate all programs because you think there all alike and there not get off the soap if you don't intend to help. Because be bashing these people your giving WWASP fuel for it's fire. :flame:
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Sue Scheff refers people to other programs with reason and probaly damn good research because if you forget morons Sue Scheff had a child in WWASP to and not all programs designed to help troubled teens are abusive. You people hate all programs because you think there all alike and there not get off the soap if you don't intend to help. Because be bashing these people your giving WWASP fuel for it's fire. :flame:
The programs Sue referred to ARE abusive. There is a mother who posts here regularly about her daughter who was abused in a program after being referred by Sue. You hate WWASPS so much, you are willing to align yourself with anyone who flys the anti-wwasp flag, no matter what their true intentions are. It's selfish to think that kids only get abused in WWASPS programs and then align yourself with a profiteer of troubled families, who refer to other programs which are known to be abusive! If you really want to know the truth read the WWASPS vs. PURE transcript in detail and see what kind of child advocate she really is. I was abused in a WWASPS facility and I am horrified at how she is using program victims horror stories to make money! Not to mention that she was the biggest referer to WWASPS and continued to refer after she took her daughter out! Wake up!
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To the person who just wrote about Sue Scheff and her lawsuits. There is a case coming up in Utah with her name involved. I would be very interested if any one may know of any lawsuits Sue has been involved in.
If we could get the names and number or where they were, I can get the depositions and information for another lawsuit. I know there was a case in Utah federal court and state court. Anyone have the names of the suits? It is important. I heard she is divorced so there would be information there and she sue a person she claimed was stalking her. What state? Help would be very good.
Anon, have you tried researching this yourself through public records? It appears that Broward County like many counties in the U.S. has a free public search service that allows one to search circuit court, county court, family court, etc. records by the parties name or case number. You may need to know the person's full name and middle initial. If there is a terms of use, you should read it as it would explain what the policy is concerning accessing public records.
http://www.clerk-17th-flcourts.org/bccoc2/Default.asp?
Click on PUBLIC ACCESS CASE SEARCH
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Sue Scheff refers people to other programs with reason and probaly damn good research because if you forget morons Sue Scheff had a child in WWASP to and not all programs designed to help troubled teens are abusive. You people hate all programs because you think there all alike and there not get off the soap if you don't intend to help. Because be bashing these people your giving WWASP fuel for it's fire. :flame:
The programs Sue referred to ARE abusive. There is a mother who posts here regularly about her daughter who was abused in a program after being referred by Sue. You hate WWASPS so much, you are willing to align yourself with anyone who flys the anti-wwasp flag, no matter what their true intentions are. It's selfish to think that kids only get abused in WWASPS programs and then align yourself with a profiteer of troubled families, who refer to other programs which are known to be abusive! If you really want to know the truth read the WWASPS vs. PURE transcript in detail and see what kind of child advocate she really is. I was abused in a WWASPS facility and I am horrified at how she is using program victims horror stories to make money! Not to mention that she was the biggest referer to WWASPS and continued to refer after she took her daughter out! Wake up!
It seems the anti-wwasps advocates who support PURE have nothing to say about the revelation in those transcripts that Sue Scheff continued to refer to WWASPS after she took her OWN daughter out claiming she had been abused, or if they have, I haven't seen the posts. I am curious though how they defend such actions? It just doesn't make sense, IMO. Anybody have a link to posts from these supporters? I'd like to know what their opinion is.
Thank you.
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The perpetually self absorbed Sue Scheff has announced to the Miami Herald on October 8 that she is writing a book about who else? Herself of course!!!!!
What is the title of the book Sue writes? "At My Wits End"
Oh yea very creative and brillant.
Who is the book about again? Sue Scheff of course!!!!
Don't forget that name: SUE SCHEFF
SUE SCHEFF She is famous and wonderful and beautiful if youre a hairless rat who LOVES big honker noses and beadie black eyes. Oh yea she got nose fixed a few times.
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We know Ginger that you cannot speak the word "Sue Scheff" form your ginger-lips because Sue-Sue will threaten to sue you or actually sue you. Thats why we call her Sue-Sue. LET HER GINGER cause then she will have a lawyer to beat her into a corner.
Okay--at least give Sue Sue her own place on your web site. call it another name like "Battleship Bee-ach" or "Sue-Sue's Corner" or "Sue Scheff's Story" it. ::dove:: just do it dear ginger
:P
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Hmmm ... PR
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To the person who just wrote about Sue Scheff and her lawsuits. There is a case coming up in Utah with her name involved. I would be very interested if any one may know of any lawsuits Sue has been involved in.
If we could get the names and number or where they were, I can get the depositions and information for another lawsuit. I know there was a case in Utah federal court and state court. Anyone have the names of the suits? It is important. I heard she is divorced so there would be information there and she sue a person she claimed was stalking her. What state? Help would be very good.
Anon, have you tried researching this yourself through public records? It appears that Broward County like many counties in the U.S. has a free public search service that allows one to search circuit court, county court, family court, etc. records by the parties name or case number. You may need to know the person's full name and middle initial. If there is a terms of use, you should read it as it would explain what the policy is concerning accessing public records.
http://www.clerk-17th-flcourts.org/bccoc2/Default.asp?
Click on PUBLIC ACCESS CASE SEARCH
Try this link instead:
http://www.clerk-17th-flcourts.org/bccoc2/Default.asp (http://www.clerk-17th-flcourts.org/bccoc2/Default.asp)?
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How can Sue Scheff refer children and their parents to these schools when she is not an Educational Consultant...? An Ed. Con. is not to take 'monies' from the schools for referrals...If she does not take money from the parents and she is not licensed as an Ed. Con.
does that mean she is free to take money from the schools?
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Educational Consultant is just a name (title). Anyone can call themselves one.
That's the problem with the referral industry.
Anyone can proclaim themselves an ed consultant and refer kids to children's programs. No education required.
However, you are correct about members of the IECA. (Independent Educational Consultants Association). To be a member you have to have a college degree and take a pledge NOT to accept fees from programs themselves for referrals. There are other membership requirements as well but I don't recall offhand what they are.
Between the two, I'd have to say a parent would be better off with a member of the IECA. It's a self-regulating group but at least they have some ethical standards that members are supposed to follow.
Whether they do or not, who knows? Guess you'd have to do some research on that question.
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Do more digging into the EICA.
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IECA - sorry
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The programs Sue Scheff referred to ARE abusive. There is a mother who posts here regularly about her daughter who was abused in a program after being referred by Sue Scheff. You hate WWASPS so much, you are willing to align yourself with anyone who flys the anti-wwasp flag, no matter what their true intentions are. It's selfish to think that kids only get abused in WWASPS programs and then align yourself with a profiteer of troubled families, who refer to other programs which are known to be abusive! If you really want to know the truth read the WWASPS vs. PURE transcript in detail and see what kind of child advocate she really is. I was abused in a WWASPS facility and I am horrified at how she is using program victims horror stories to make money! Not to mention that she was the biggest referer to WWASPS and continued to refer after she took her daughter out! Wake up!
It seems the anti-wwasps advocates who support Sue Scheff and PURE have nothing to say about the revelation in those transcripts that Sue Scheff continued to refer to WWASPS after Sue Scheff took her OWN daughter ASHLYN SCHEFF out claiming Ashlyn Scheff had been abused, or if they have, I haven't seen the posts. I am curious though how they and Sue Scheff defend such actions? It just doesn't make sense, IMO. Anybody have a link to posts from these supporters? I'd like to know what their opinion is.
Thank you.
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How could they defend such actions? Don't think anyone has bothered to try on this forum, have they?
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PRESS RELEASES
10/16/06 Troubled Teen Programs - 25 Plaintiffs Join in Lawsuit Against WWASPS, Cross Creek Manor, Robert Lichfield, and Associates ? More Expected to Join In
(click here)
10/15/06 Sue Scheff Reveals What Led to the $11.3 M Victory
(click here)
10/8/06 Sue Scheff is Awarded $11.3 Million in Internet Defamation & Invasion of Privacy Claim in Jury Trial
Click here
08/26/06 WWASPS BACK IN COURT, AGAIN: Prominent and Prestigious Turley Law Firm and Famed Attorney Richard Henriksen File Lawsuit Against WWASPS
(click here)
08/02/06 Death of 7-year old Angellika Arndt results in closure of Northwest's Rice Lake Clinic
(click here)
07/28/06 WWASPS Back in Court: 25 Parents File Class-Action Law Suit Alleging Fraudulent Tactics
(click here)
07/10/06 Coalition Against Institutionalized Child Abuse Expands!
(click here)
06/26/06 A VICTORY: P.U.R.E Satisfaction - Florida Mom prevails, again
(click here)
06/23/06 Spring Creek Lodge withdraws from the WWASP
(click here)
06/12/06 Parents for troubled teens can get PURE results
(click here)
05/27/06 WWASP Fails, Florida Mom Prevails: Jury Rules in Favor of Mom
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If you bring another lawsuit against ISABELLE ZEHNDER you would have a lot of surprise witnesses who know a lot about the IZZY factor.
Sue scheff cannot get business insurance since her Utah lawsuit so the next million dollar defense will be on her mom.
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Referral-Free Zone: Buyer Beware of Businesses Exploiting Children and Families
International Survivors Action Committee
9/9/2006 4:02:51 PM
Victims, Moms, and Advocates Join Forces to Expose
Fraud and Child Abuse in a Booming Billion Dollar Industry
CONTACT: Shelby Earnshaw
WEB SITE: www.referralfreezone.info (http://www.referralfreezone.info)
After operating separately for years, a group of survivors, moms, authors, and advocates have joined forces against child abuse in privately operated children?s programs. The group emphasizes that parents looking for family help, especially over the Internet, have no idea that agents and programs are operating without federal oversight.
The ?wolves in sheep?s clothing? begin with the self-described parent ?resource experts? and referral agents. ?No one is federally regulating or reigning in these businesses,? claims Shelby Earnshaw, who operates International Survivor?s Action Committee (ISAC). According to the coalition, the self-described "parent resource expert" or agent may frighten a parent looking for help for his or her child with descriptions of one bad residential program, only to lure the parent into another, from which the so-called "expert" is making big money.
ISAC is a watchdog organization that warns parents, collects evidence, and reports child abuse to authorities about privately operated children?s programs and those who refer to such programs. Ms. Earnshaw should know?she was a victim herself. Now an adult, with a family of her own, Ms. Earnshaw has dedicated her life to exposing the proliferation of fraudulent residential children?s programs. ?Many times the best help for the money is near home. We are here to at least warn parents about the unethical practices of self-described resource experts and referral agents.?
Some referral organizations tout their membership with the Better Business Bureau, claiming they are ?parents helping parents,? while, in fact, they are uneducated in relevant fields of child development or disorders from which children may be suffering. In reality, these Internet savvy companies are marketing experts--making their businesses traps for honest, but unwitting parents.
Thusfar, such businesses are operating with impunity because there are no federal standards by which to regulate and punish them when they go too far. Ms. Earnshaw states, ?It is not uncommon for skilled agents to talk parents into moving their children across state lines and even out of the country. The parents needing help may be under severe pressure and these companies take advantage of the parents? vulnerable state of mind.?
In starkest contrast, the Referral Free Zone is designed to provide information from researchers, authors, advocates, and parents who have no financial interest whatsoever in referring to children?s programs. ?It?s not uncommon for the operators of these programs to lie about the fact they are receiving fees. There are also no federal laws requiring ?parent resource experts? or agents to reveal child abuse or neglect that has occurred at the programs they have just referred someone to?it?s buyer beware, at its height."
One program may refer to another, with the parent not understanding the connection between the two companies. The sites all look very different from one another, giving the appearance they are independent of one another. ?This is an obvious conflict of interest,? says Ms. Earnshaw. ?We know of cases where owners are up on criminal charges or in the middle of criminal investigations for child abuse, but the ?expert or agent? turns a blind eye because they may be friends with the owners and they have been paid. It?s very dangerous for children.?
According to the Referral-Free Zone, the latest trend is to ?appear? to advocate, while referring to another company that earns money. Ms. Earnshaw explains, ?Since people have gotten wind of the for-profit referral business, referrers are now teaming up with ?child advocates.? These ?advocates? will gladly tell you how awful a particular facility is, and direct you to someone who will help you find an alternative, which happens to be a business in which they have an interest in one way or another.?
The Referral-Free Zone only allows dedicated members who do not refer to children?s programs. The coalition is committed to advocating and creating true public awareness about the increasing popularity of using our children as business commodities.
ISAC said the strength of the Referral-Free Zone?s will be through the Internet, books, and films, as well as political and media campaigns. ?Our power is growing and we will not stop until meaningful action is taken to regulate this dangerous private industry. The Referral-Free Zone will unify our efforts to educate and advocate.?
The Referral-Free Zone is found at www.referralfreezone.info (http://www.referralfreezone.info) ####
Related Links
www.referralfreezone.info (http://www.referralfreezone.info)
Contact Information:
Shelby Earnshaw
Founder
International Survivors Action Committee
(540) 522-6231
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FROM Sue Scheff new self promotion. She says she feels your pain and the GREAT SUE will "research" and find safe programs. Read below in bold cause Sue Scheff is the expert who knows all with her GED. :flame: Such fraud.
Sue Scheff? - Bringing Families Back TogetherSM
Sue Scheff and P.U.R.E. work with organizations such as Coalition against Institutionalized Children Abuse (CAICA) www.caica.org (http://www.caica.org) in an effort to help bring awareness to a multi-billion dollar industry that continues to grow and that is virtually unknown.
Due to the overwhelming number of requests, Sue Scheff is in the final stage of writing her book - it will be a useful tool for parents and will include what desperate parents are saying today, options and alternatives, as well as real life experiences.
Sue Scheff was recently interviewed on WNN 1470 AM Health Talk Radio, discussing the need for parent awareness. Sue Scheff encouraged people to take a moment and sign the International Petition to End Child Abuse sponsored by CAICA.
Sue Scheff recognizes there are survivors of programs from many years ago who suffered the ultimate price. Sue feels pain for their experiences, however realizes that their apparent desire to close all programs is not the solution - helping parents find safe and qualified schools that can benefit today's teens is what is needed.
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Personally, I still don't understand what or who CAICA is.
:roll:
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Oh sure, refer parents to Isabelle's petition which IMO is nothing but a self-promotional ad for Caica and by association, her friend and colleague Sue Scheff of PURE.
Makes sense Scheff would rather people sign her pal Izzy's petition than the one sponsored by CAFETY which has been online much longer than Izzie's and has well over 1,000 signatures.
Not that petitions are gonna solve anything but at least Cafety's is focused on the issues and not sponsored by someone who clearly supports orgs. that are paid by the programs they recommend to "desperate" parents.
:flame:
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I guess you had not heard that Izzy is the thief in the night. The pro who steals whatever ideas and words she can. Of course this is a good thing cause otherwise we would have to endure her songwriting. :rofl:
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"was opposed to telling Layne anything about it. She insisted his statue of limitation had run and that telling him about it would only frustrate him. (wrong) She expressed other concerns having to do with his fragile mental health. "
I think it's clear that Carey Bock was right after all. It's too bad she could not open her case because I think there are a lot who would testify for her. Shame on Sue Scheff. Her only equal in evil is Robert Lichfield and WWASP.
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has anyone who writes on this damn thing taken the time to help really help any of these kids? I believe in the people who get off there lazy asses and do something instead of bitching while they enjoy there happy little home lives. I think everyone who has anything to say about any of the WWASP involved incidents should stop preaching and start helping, instead of this so called digging.
help these kids don't just talk about it, talk is cheap.
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The above poster, judging from the history of its IP, is either Sue Scheff? or a fanboy. Since Sue Scheff? isn't likely to have fanboys, it's probably Sue Scheff? itself.
A member of Fornits helped put together one of the lawsuits against WWASPS, one of the big, meaty ones that is likely to succeed. Pack that in your rectum and go back whence you came.
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has anyone who writes on this damn thing taken the time to help really help any of these kids? I believe in the people who get off there lazy asses and do something instead of bitching while they enjoy there happy little home lives. I think everyone who has anything to say about any of the WWASP involved incidents should stop preaching and start helping, instead of this so called digging.
help these kids don't just talk about it, talk is cheap.
We are doing something. We're exposing Sue Scheff for the lying, manipulative, greedy little hypocrite she is.
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"help any of these kids?" writes sue.
As in "help your teens" Sue? Is that what you mean?
Ever wonder why so many people hate you and your current partner Marie Peart and your former partner Randall Hinton?
Think real real hard about it stupid. Maybe you can figure it out.
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HINT FOR THOSE WHO WONDER WHY SUE SCHEFF AND PURE HATED SO MUCH, MAYBE MORE THAN LICHFIELD AND WWASP:
.........I was abused in a WWASPS facility and I am horrified at how she is using program victims horror stories to make money! Not to mention that she was the biggest referer to WWASPS and continued to refer after she took her daughter out! Wake up!
It seems the anti-wwasps advocates who support Sue Scheff and PURE have nothing to say about the revelation in those transcripts that Sue Scheff continued to refer to WWASPS after Sue Scheff took her OWN daughter ASHLYN SCHEFF out claiming Ashlyn Scheff had been abused, or if they have, I haven't seen the posts. I am curious though how they and Sue Scheff defend such actions? ......Thank you. :flame:
[/img]
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Exactly as written from another one of Sue's friend who she herself describes as "so honest" "very honest" "would never lie"
------Original Message------
From: Kevin Richey
To: Ken Kay
Subject: Sue Scheff
The last contact I had with Sue was 8 18 (sic 16) she emailed a lead to me. In our last conversation probably last week July she said she thought our programs were good but that our Seminars were terrible. She said she would continue to send referrals to me for Majestic Ranch as she didn't have any other resources for younger kids 7-12. She said she had placed 8 kids that week in Red Cliff or Red Rock not sure which. She asked me to manipulate the referral system and give 2 referrals to her so she wouldn't have to pay Diane Luchetto for 2 referrals that she somehow received from her. She said she had given Diane about 12 referrals. I told her that I couldn't change that information in our computer system and that I didn't feel right about doing it if I could.
Kevin Richey
Teen Help
Admission's Coordinator
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Just in case those of you with attention deficit did not get the above post is part of the file in the Utah case and the following is from one of Sue's "close" friends:
1. She said she would continue to send referrals to me for Majestic Ranch as she didn't have any other resources for younger kids 7-12.
2. She said she had placed 8 kids that week in Red Cliff or Red Rock not sure which.
3. She asked me to manipulate the referral system and give 2 referrals to her so she wouldn't have to pay Diane Luchetto for 2 referrals that she somehow received from her.
4. She said she had given Diane about 12 referrals.
5. I told her that I couldn't change that information in our computer system and that I didn't feel right about doing it if I could.
Kevin Richey
Teen Help
Admission's Coordinator
I challenge anyone to say this is not the truth. Sue do you care to explain? Fat Izzy do you care to include this on your fake advocacy site?
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She said she would continue to send referrals to me for Majestic Ranch as she didn't have any other resources for younger kids 7-12.
WTF?
:flame:
-
You completely lost me after the fat comment.
Lame.. Really Lame.
Oh wait... I have called Izzy and sue worse.
Still its lame, but yeah glass houses and all. I am glad I pay only a miniscule of attention to these we hate "Sue Scheff" threads. They got old a long time ago. Particularly when you realize in the grand scheme of things that Sue Scheff is a pus filled boil on the ass of a significantly larger problem. Have you guys ever thought about starting your own message board dedicated to calling Sue and Izzy all the names you want?
Give it a rest, will ya? We like the way the board is set up. We like being able to shit all over Sue and Izzy where ever we feel like it.
She's running a business that refers kids to abusive programs all the while claiming she's the "safe alternative" to WWASPS. That deserves to be splashed all over the place.
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She's running a business that refers kids to abusive programs all the while claiming she's the "safe alternative" to WWASPS. That deserves to be splashed all over the place.
No, she is not. She did, years ago. It was splashed all over the place, remember? Do you think fornits is all over the place?
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We like being able to shit all over Sue and Izzy where ever we feel like it.
Why in the WWASPS forum? Sue doesn't refer to WWASPS anymore.
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Majestic Ranch:
A Living Nightmare for Kids
By Isabelle Zehnder
A report about ...
. . . the deplorable conditions for children confined at Majestic Ranch, a privately owned and unlicensed residential facility in Randolph, Utah;
--------------------
Sounds like Isabelle Zehnder has some has some big ass explaining to do.
Let's start here:
For Isabelle Zehnder -- Why would you support an organization (PURE) that referred children to a program whose conditions you, yourself, describe as "deplorable"?
-
Email me and I will answer all your questions.
-
Why in an email? Why not explain it right here out in the open? Are you afraid that those who know the truth may question your explanation and poke holes right through it?
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We like being able to shit all over Sue and Izzy where ever we feel like it.
Why in the WWASPS forum? Sue doesn't refer to WWASPS anymore.
Her connection with Randall Hinton is enough.
-
Cut and pasted from court documents exactly as written but with more to follow at the end. The "Lynn" is Lynn Prezfeld who was convicted of fraud and racketeering in Miami.
The "Randall", well we all know Randall.
Ashlyn is Sue's daughter who Sue uses to sell WWASP once she gets her out of the program.
Really Izzy tell us openly what you have to say about your buddy Sue. We really want to hear it all.
Lisa Irvin
From: Sue
To: Lisa Irving
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001
Subject: Hi Lisa?.
I have been contacted by a parent here in Ft. Lauderdale that says they (several program parents) want me & Ashlyn to attend support meetings here. However, Randall stated to me that Lynn claimed that many parents ?don?t want Ashlyn and myself?. At the the time I didn?t want the list of parents that don?t want me, however, after this parent just called me, they (program parents) are requesting the list and so am I.
Please have Lynn forward the list of parents that are not welcoming me and my daughter to meetings and Discovery Graduations. I don?t expect to hear ?confidential statements? here, since they should not be ashamed of their decission. I am also in the process of getting a manual from another support group leader, that she states, ?we are welcome?.
I do know for a fact, Lori and Ashley Neuman attend these meetings, and Ashley, like Ashlyn did NOT graduate.
Thank you Lisa, for your time and support in the above matter. I also want to take this opportunity to thank you for supporting many parents that I have worked with on their referrals. I don?t believe I ever sent you the final newsletter about my venture with public service?.. It is below for you to read. I believe it says it all, as far as my support for the program, however mostly ?bringing families back togethers??..
Sincerely,
Sue Scheff ? please read below? this was sent to many WWASP parents dated January 2001.
MORE TO FOLLOW BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK SO FAR?
-
Lisa Irvin
From: Sue
To: Lisa Irving
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001
Subject: Hi Lisa?.
I have been contacted by a parent here in Ft. Lauderdale that says they (several program parents) want me & Ashlyn to attend support meetings here. However, Randall stated to me that Lynn claimed that many parents ?don?t want Ashlyn and myself?. At the the time I didn?t want the list of parents that don?t want me, however, after this parent just called me, they (program parents) are requesting the list and so am I.
Please have Lynn forward the list of parents that are not welcoming me and my daughter to meetings and Discovery Graduations. I don?t expect to hear ?confidential statements? here, since they should not be ashamed of their decission. I am also in the process of getting a manual from another support group leader, that she states, ?we are welcome?.
I do know for a fact, Lori and Ashley Neuman attend these meetings, and Ashley, like Ashlyn did NOT graduate.
Thank you Lisa, for your time and support in the above matter. I also want to take this opportunity to thank you for supporting many parents that I have worked with on their referrals. I don?t believe I ever sent you the final newsletter about my venture with public service?.. It is below for you to read. I believe it says it all, as far as my support for the program, however mostly ?bringing families back togethers??..
Sincerely,
Sue Scheff ? please read below? this was sent to many WWASP parents dated January 2001.
Hello Referral Team??.
Long time, I know. Many of you already know that my daughter has come home after 6 months at CSA. Her transformation is nothing short of a miracle. She is doing fantastic! I believe the program has saved her life along with God guiding us. I know many of you are thinking, ?wow, she didn?t graduate?, no she didn?t. I am a firm believer that God made us all different and that was not a mistake. Many children need the complete program, and I do encourage graduation. However, I recognize that every child was sent with different issues. Some more severe than others.
Ashlyn, my daughter, was not a ?bad? child for years. Quite the contrary. She was on the National Gymnastics Team, has awards and trophies from all over the country, and had always been a parents ?dream? child. However, at age 13, during a practice, she broke her foot in 5 places. One of the worse breaks possible. With this, she continued to train for 6 months ?in the cast?! Her self-esteem went so far down, we couldn?t see it. Finally, on Mother?s Day 1999, she announced to me she was quitting gymnastics! I was devastated, but respected her wishes.
Now at age 14, she wanted to try to ?fit in? with the ?normal? teens. My first mistake, she convinced me to let her try public school. She had never been. That was the worse 2 months of my life. She became involved with Wicca, (witchcraft), and eventually was withdrawn from my Christian beliefs, didn?t believe in God, and was spiraling downward. I immediately put her back into private school, however she would come home to ?hang? with the public school peers.
When I stepped back and analyzed the situation, I discovered I need to make a drastic decision. Ashlyn had lived in a ?glass house? for so many years with her gymnastics, now the house was shattered. With this, I surfed the net for hours/days?.. looking for help. As you all know, she ended up at CSA. The best decision I have ever made! I believe God had his hand in it all the way.
Ashlyn is successfully coaching gymnastics at a local gym she where her career started. Her Team girls just love her and she loves them back. She has brought her tools from the program to enhance her coaching skills. She is by far, one of the best coaches there. The love and joy thaqt is seen on Ashlyn when she is coaching is a sight I hadn?t seen in over a year. God lead Ashlyn exactly where she was needed. Only he added extra steps in between to even make her better. She will be returning to her private school on Jan. 29th for a second semester.
Wow, have I bored you yet?? it is leading to my reason for writing?..
Last year at this time I was completely falling apart with a daughter into Wicca. I never thought life would be the same. I would look up and say ?why me, what did I do wrong to create this?? I am a single parent raising 2 children and was doing my best, then this hit me with a ton of bricks. Last year, you couldn?t tell me that anything good could come from this. How??????..if it wasn?t for all the darkness, the new light wouldn?t be shining through?? I welcome all you to my new business:
P.U.R.E. Inc., - Parents Universal Referral Experts, Inc. ? God knew exactly what He was doing all along. Only I couldn?t see it at the time. When I decided to take this leap, I never imagined what was in store for me. My first sign was when we were looking for office space, I came across a small sign in a window next to my friends office. It said ?For Rent?. Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine I would be sharing space with a ?Juvenile Criminal Attorney?! That was God letting me know we are on the right road. Then when I contacted the phone company, our toll free number ends in PURE?.. now what were those chances???? Our logo, which you will see on our web-site, is a Dove with a branch?. ?bringing families back together?. A dove is a symbol of love, and this dream was created from love. Our web-site is www.HelpYourTeens.com (http://www.HelpYourTeens.com) Please check it out?..it should be done by Feb 1st- 5th. So far it is looking fantastic! God lead us to a great web-site Designer.
My partner in this venture, is Sandra Atkins. She has been a friend for many years and is a beautiful Christian woman. We have been looking for a business to open for the past 3 years, however, always hit road blocks. She went through a divorce, and I was having my own problems. Sandra has her Master?s Degree in business, along with a General Contractor?s License. She is also a single mother of 3 children. Her knowledge and intelligence combined with my first hand experience will compliment each other to make PURE Inc. a great success. We plan on expanding our horizons by also referring to Private Schools, Learning Centers and Military Schools. That, of course, is our goal for the future. Right now, we are concentrating on helping parents with their struggling teens.
I want to thank you for your encouraging letters, your kindness and your gratitude. I have spoken to many of you personally and have enjoyed assisting you all with getting referrals. When you see our web-site, please feel free to send your comments or suggestions. Also call me if you need any help with the referrals. I know many of you have requested copies of my letters that I sent to schools and doctors offices about the program. During this time of moving into our new office, I am totally swamped. Please re-send me your fax numbers and I will forward them to you as soon as possible.
I am always a phone call or e-mail away and I will always keep you in my prayers.
I would like to than Randall Hinton, at Teen Help, for all his support and time with my referrals and with the parents on this team. Also Diane Lucchetto, Mary Golley and Cindy Day, who inspired me to be my best and take that leap. Included is Kathi Colton, who added the web-site idea to many parents, and is constantly helping them through the steps. Rhonda Nemechek & June Gowing who gave me the encouragement to go forward. Most of all I thank God, for guiding me and allowing me to touch you all and the many to follow. I kept ignoring His calling, however, when I stepped left and ?listened??.. P.U.R.E. Inc. was created!
Let?s end as we always do?.. ?Prayerize, Visualize, Actualize?! Go help others?.please ?Pay it Forward? and share all my ideas with other new parents?.if any one needs back issues of my ?ideas:, please let me?..
With loving prayers and gratitude,
Sue Scheff
-
She's running a business that refers kids to abusive programs all the while claiming she's the "safe alternative" to WWASPS. That deserves to be splashed all over the place.
No, she is not. She did, years ago.[/i]?
You know Izzy you sound a lot like the last losing presidential candidate when he said I voted against it after I voted for it.
Sue did refer for years to WWASP and she used her daughter to make money.
-
Here's another question for Isabelle Zehnder:
What programs does PURE refer to? Since you refer your readers to PURE by way of your recommendation (parents resources page) I would imagine you must know what teen help programs you are potentially refering your readers to?
-
http://web.archive.org/web/200103120111 ... nials.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20010312011108/helpyourteens.com/testimonials.html)
"Read a poem titled "I Am Sorry" written to her mom by a teenage girl who successfully completed one of the programs offered through P.U.R.E."
Link to Poem I Am Sorry:
http://web.archive.org/web/200103130756 ... /poem.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20010313075652/helpyourteens.com/poem.html)
-
Lisa Irvin
From: Sue
To: Lisa Irving
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001
Subject: Hi Lisa?.
I have been contacted by a parent here in Ft. Lauderdale that says they (several program parents) want me & Ashlyn to attend support meetings here. However, Randall stated to me that Lynn claimed that many parents ?don?t want Ashlyn and myself?. At the the time I didn?t want the list of parents that don?t want me, however, after this parent just called me, they (program parents) are requesting the list and so am I.
Please have Lynn forward the list of parents that are not welcoming me and my daughter to meetings and Discovery Graduations. I don?t expect to hear ?confidential statements? here, since they should not be ashamed of their decission. I am also in the process of getting a manual from another support group leader, that she states, ?we are welcome?.
I do know for a fact, Lori and Ashley Neuman attend these meetings, and Ashley, like Ashlyn did NOT graduate.
Thank you Lisa, for your time and support in the above matter. I also want to take this opportunity to thank you for supporting many parents that I have worked with on their referrals. I don?t believe I ever sent you the final newsletter about my venture with public service?.. It is below for you to read. I believe it says it all, as far as my support for the program, however mostly ?bringing families back togethers??..
Sincerely,
Sue Scheff ? please read below? this was sent to many WWASP parents dated January 2001.
MORE TO FOLLOW BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK SO FAR?
First off, she's a fucking moron. Is this the woman who claimed to be a paralegal? With writing skills like that? Are you kidding me?:rofl:
This is pretty much what I figured she was like. Seeing her own words confirms it. There is just no way to deal with someone like this in a rational manner. She's a self-righteous bitch who claims to have the magic answer. She's no different than the rest snakeoil salesmen.
I don?t expect to hear ?confidential statements? here, since they should not be ashamed of their decission.
Bitch. ::fuckoff::
-
She's no different than the rest of the snakeoil salesmen.
:P
-
Your question:
"First off, she's a fucking moron. Is this the woman who claimed to be a paralegal? With writing skills like that? Are you kidding me?"
Answer:
Sue did not claim to be the paralegal--that was Izzy of CAICA. Sue claimed to have a college degree in business and this lie and other lies were on her web untill she got in trouble for it.
Sue has a GED or maybe high school diploma in badly practiced "religion." She runs down the public schools as not being good enough for her rich-bitch offspring, but she is an example of what a private school can produce? :rofl:
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It's long and rambling but worth reading all the way ya' all. This is the kind of retarded person who is conning parents.
Sue Scheff may be one of the defendants in the lawsuit against WWASP who made the referrals to WWASP. She and Bob may be at the same table in court.
Here is the other half of Sue's brain.........
Sincerely,
Sue Scheff ? please read below? this was sent to many WWASP parents dated January 2001.
Hello Referral Team??.
Long time, I know. Many of you already know that my daughter has come home after 6 months at CSA. Her transformation is nothing short of a miracle. She is doing fantastic! I believe the program has saved her life along with God guiding us. I know many of you are thinking, ?wow, she didn?t graduate?, no she didn?t. I am a firm believer that God made us all different and that was not a mistake. Many children need the complete program, and I do encourage graduation. However, I recognize that every child was sent with different issues. Some more severe than others.
Ashlyn, my daughter, was not a ?bad? child for years. Quite the contrary. She was on the National Gymnastics Team, has awards and trophies from all over the country, and had always been a parents ?dream? child. However, at age 13, during a practice, she broke her foot in 5 places. One of the worse breaks possible. With this, she continued to train for 6 months ?in the cast?! Her self-esteem went so far down, we couldn?t see it. Finally, on Mother?s Day 1999, she announced to me she was quitting gymnastics! I was devastated, but respected her wishes.
Now at age 14, she wanted to try to ?fit in? with the ?normal? teens. My first mistake, she convinced me to let her try public school. She had never been. That was the worse 2 months of my life. She became involved with Wicca, (witchcraft), and eventually was withdrawn from my Christian beliefs, didn?t believe in God, and was spiraling downward. I immediately put her back into private school, however she would come home to ?hang? with the public school peers.
When I stepped back and analyzed the situation, I discovered I need to make a drastic decision. Ashlyn had lived in a ?glass house? for so many years with her gymnastics, now the house was shattered. With this, I surfed the net for hours/days?.. looking for help. As you all know, she ended up at CSA. The best decision I have ever made! I believe God had his hand in it all the way.
Ashlyn is successfully coaching gymnastics at a local gym she where her career started. Her Team girls just love her and she loves them back. She has brought her tools from the program to enhance her coaching skills. She is by far, one of the best coaches there. The love and joy thaqt is seen on Ashlyn when she is coaching is a sight I hadn?t seen in over a year. God lead Ashlyn exactly where she was needed. Only he added extra steps in between to even make her better. She will be returning to her private school on Jan. 29th for a second semester.
Wow, have I bored you yet?? it is leading to my reason for writing?..
Last year at this time I was completely falling apart with a daughter into Wicca. I never thought life would be the same. I would look up and say ?why me, what did I do wrong to create this?? I am a single parent raising 2 children and was doing my best, then this hit me with a ton of bricks. Last year, you couldn?t tell me that anything good could come from this. How??????..if it wasn?t for all the darkness, the new light wouldn?t be shining through?? I welcome all you to my new business:
P.U.R.E. Inc., - Parents Universal Referral Experts, Inc. ? God knew exactly what He was doing all along. Only I couldn?t see it at the time. When I decided to take this leap, I never imagined what was in store for me. My first sign was when we were looking for office space, I came across a small sign in a window next to my friends office. It said ?For Rent?. Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine I would be sharing space with a ?Juvenile Criminal Attorney?! That was God letting me know we are on the right road. Then when I contacted the phone company, our toll free number ends in PURE?.. now what were those chances???? Our logo, which you will see on our web-site, is a Dove with a branch?. ?bringing families back together?. A dove is a symbol of love, and this dream was created from love. Our web-site is www.HelpYourTeens.com (http://www.HelpYourTeens.com) Please check it out?..it should be done by Feb 1st- 5th. So far it is looking fantastic! God lead us to a great web-site Designer.
My partner in this venture, is Sandra Atkins. She has been a friend for many years and is a beautiful Christian woman. We have been looking for a business to open for the past 3 years, however, always hit road blocks. She went through a divorce, and I was having my own problems. Sandra has her Master?s Degree in business, along with a General Contractor?s License. She is also a single mother of 3 children. Her knowledge and intelligence combined with my first hand experience will compliment each other to make PURE Inc. a great success. We plan on expanding our horizons by also referring to Private Schools, Learning Centers and Military Schools. That, of course, is our goal for the future. Right now, we are concentrating on helping parents with their struggling teens.
I want to thank you for your encouraging letters, your kindness and your gratitude. I have spoken to many of you personally and have enjoyed assisting you all with getting referrals. When you see our web-site, please feel free to send your comments or suggestions. Also call me if you need any help with the referrals. I know many of you have requested copies of my letters that I sent to schools and doctors offices about the program. During this time of moving into our new office, I am totally swamped. Please re-send me your fax numbers and I will forward them to you as soon as possible.
I am always a phone call or e-mail away and I will always keep you in my prayers.
I would like to than Randall Hinton, at Teen Help, for all his support and time with my referrals and with the parents on this team. Also Diane Lucchetto, Mary Golley and Cindy Day, who inspired me to be my best and take that leap. Included is Kathi Colton, who added the web-site idea to many parents, and is constantly helping them through the steps. Rhonda Nemechek & June Gowing who gave me the encouragement to go forward. Most of all I thank God, for guiding me and allowing me to touch you all and the many to follow. I kept ignoring His calling, however, when I stepped left and ?listened??.. P.U.R.E. Inc. was created!
Let?s end as we always do?.. ?Prayerize, Visualize, Actualize?! Go help others?.please ?Pay it Forward? and share all my ideas with other new parents?.if any one needs back issues of my ?ideas:, please let me?..
With loving prayers and gratitude,
Sue Scheff
-
From the exact words of Scheff except the bold: This was all written by Scheff when she and of course PURE were selling for WWASP.
A. P.U.R.E. Inc., - Parents Universal Referral Experts, Inc. ? God knew exactly what He was doing all along. Only I couldn?t see it at the time.
B. When I decided to take this leap, I never imagined what was in store for me. My first sign (from God she means) was when we were looking for office space, I came across a small sign in a window next to my friends office. It said ?For Rent?.
C. Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine I would be sharing space with a ?Juvenile Criminal Attorney?! That was God letting me know we are on the right road. (The lawyer wanted your money.)
D. Then when I contacted the phone company, our toll free number ends in PURE?.. now what were those chances???? (It's common for companies to us letters, so the chances were good.)
E. Our logo, which you will see on our web-site, is a Dove with a branch?. ?bringing families back together?. A dove is a symbol of love, and this dream was created from love. (The Love Money Dove, imagine that.)
F. Our web-site is www.HelpYourTeens.com (http://www.HelpYourTeens.com) Please check it out?..it should be done by Feb 1st- 5th. So far it is looking fantastic! God lead us to a great web-site Designer. (The WWASP related HelpYourTeens. Scheff the top selling agent for WWASP who created her own money-grubbing business.)
-
Lisa Irvin
From: Sue
To: Lisa Irving
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001
Subject: Hi Lisa?.
I have been contacted by a parent here in Ft. Lauderdale that says they (several program parents) want me & Ashlyn to attend support meetings here. However, Randall stated to me that Lynn claimed that many parents ?don?t want Ashlyn and myself?. At the the time I didn?t want the list of parents that don?t want me, however, after this parent just called me, they (program parents) are requesting the list and so am I.
Please have Lynn forward the list of parents that are not welcoming me and my daughter to meetings and Discovery Graduations. I don?t expect to hear ?confidential statements? here, since they should not be ashamed of their decission. I am also in the process of getting a manual from another support group leader, that she states, ?we are welcome?.
I do know for a fact, Lori and Ashley Neuman attend these meetings, and Ashley, like Ashlyn did NOT graduate.
Thank you Lisa, for your time and support in the above matter. I also want to take this opportunity to thank you for supporting many parents that I have worked with on their referrals. I don?t believe I ever sent you the final newsletter about my venture with public service?.. It is below for you to read. I believe it says it all, as far as my support for the program, however mostly ?bringing families back togethers??..
Sincerely,
Sue Scheff ? please read below? this was sent to many WWASP parents dated January 2001.
Well, now we know why she hates Lynn Pretzfield (Sp?) so much.
Lynn didn't want Susan attending their little get togethers.
And that rambling letter to the WWASP parents explaining the founding of PURE is sure nuff a revelation.
-
Again the question:
How in the world did this woman refer children to WWASP,
a program that she swears abused her own daughter?
Is that just sick or what?
-
I find her whole story of how she founded P.U.R.E. to be corney as all hell. I mean come on, these things happen to people all the time, it's not like it was a sign from God or anything?
That's my opinion.
-
I'm not one who believe that God actually "talks" to people.
But if God did talk to people--I doubt if God told this bitch to start some business that sells kids into abusive programs.
I do believe in the Ten Commandments:
Sue Scheff should give these a "read over" and try to comply:
Thou shall not steal....shall not lie....shall not kill.....
Think there's on in there about "honoring parents."
Sounds like maybe this woman just found an easy way to make some big ole money by telling lots of lies to desperate parents, and by conning her own so-called-friends.
NOPE, God is not talking to this bitch IMO.
-
Did you mean?
From the exact words of Scheff except the bold: This was all written by Scheff when she and of course PURE were selling for WWASP.
Sue Scheff says,
A. P.U.R.E. Inc., - Parents Universal Referral Experts, Inc. ? God knew exactly what He was doing all along. Only I couldn?t see it at the time.
B. When I decided to take this leap, I never imagined what was in store for me. My first sign (from God she means) was when we were looking for office space, I came across a small sign in a window next to my friends office. It said ?For Rent?.
C. Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine I would be sharing space with a ?Juvenile Criminal Attorney?! That was God letting me know we are on the right road. (The lawyer wanted your money.)
D. Then when I contacted the phone company, our toll free number ends in PURE?.. now what were those chances???? (It's common for companies to use letters, so the chances were good.)
E. Our logo, which you will see on our web-site, is a Dove with a branch?. ?bringing families back together?. A dove is a symbol of love, and this dream was created from love. (The Love Money Dove, imagine that.)
F. Our web-site is www.HelpYourTeens.com (http://www.HelpYourTeens.com) Please check it out?..it should be done by Feb 1st- 5th. So far it is looking fantastic! God lead us to a great web-site Designer. (The WWASP related HelpYourTeens. Scheff the top selling agent for WWASP who created her own money-grubbing business.)
-
http://web.archive.org/web/20010312011108/helpyourteens.com/testimonials.html
"Read a poem titled "I Am Sorry" written to her mom by a teenage girl who successfully completed one of the programs offered through P.U.R.E."
Link to Poem I Am Sorry:
http://web.archive.org/web/200103130756 ... /poem.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20010313075652/helpyourteens.com/poem.html)
BUMP. I'm curious what others think of this poem? IMO, it's sad.
-
I don't believe that anyone with Sue Scheff's writing skills should be criticizing public schools.
In the "Hello Referral Team" letter, she shows that she lacks spelling skills:
thaqt (that)
lead (led)
Scheff also shows a lack of basic grammar skills: comma rules, when to use quotation marks, when to use periods and question marks, a lack of capitaliztion rules, and when to use past tense.
The same poor writing skills are reflected in the "Hi Lisa" letter:
decissions (decision)
togethers (together)
She constantly misuses the pronoun "who," replacing it with the word THAT.
Shame on this broad for criticizing any type of school.
She does write poorly.
Maybe "her God" could whisper some grammar rules to her.
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I'm not one who believe that God actually "talks" to people.
But if God did talk to people--I doubt if God told this bitch to start some business that sells kids into abusive programs.
I do believe in the Ten Commandments:
Sue Scheff should give these a "read over" and try to comply:
Thou shall not steal....shall not lie....shall not kill.....
Think there's on in there about "honoring parents."
Sounds like maybe this woman just found an easy way to make some big ole money by telling lots of lies to desperate parents, and by conning her own so-called-friends.
NOPE, God is not talking to this bitch IMO.
I agree Anon. Take heart though - if God does work in strange ways (like the saying goes) - then it could be Sue Scheff (TM) is due for another message from God, this time telling her where she can put those self-serving press releases written by her friend and colleague Isabelle Zehnder.
:wink:
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Does anyone know what this fool Sue Scheff means by "pay it forward"? Is she talking about getting more parents to sell WWASP?
Note the "my ideas" from Sue-sue. "Me, me, me" and "my, my, my." Like she is 5 years old.
QUOTE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
": ..please ?Pay it Forward? and share all my ideas with other new parents?.if any one needs back issues of my ?ideas:, please let me?..
With loving prayers and gratitude,
Sue Scheff"
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PAY IT FORWARD was a 2000 movie.
PLOT: Trevor is a young school boy who is given a task by his Social Studies teacher: To come up with a plan to change the world through direct action.
Trevor's plan: To do a good deed to 3 people, who in turn must do good deeds for 3 other people.
These people must continue to "pay it forward" and by doing the good deeds---the world will be changed for the better through direct action.
Sad Ending: Trevor comes to the defense of a friend who is being attacked by bullies. The main bully pulls a knife and stabs Trevor. Trevor dies from the stab wound.
Hmmmmmmm
Good "story"...... but, a young boy ends up DEAD.
Sorry, Sue. Go sell your "story" somewhere else.
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Here's another question for Isabelle Zehnder:
What programs does PURE refer to? Since you refer your readers to PURE by way of your recommendation (parents resources page) I would imagine you must know what teen help programs you are potentially refering your readers to?
Anyone know when this relationship between PURE and CAICA was formed?
And also, what is the role, if any, of these two people in the Turley lawsuit?
It appears to me there was another class action filed against WWASPS a few years ago. What is the status of that case? I believe it was filed in California. Is it still active???? What was Scheff's involvement (if any) in that lawsuit that others posted about in this thread?