Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Seed Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Anonymous on December 13, 2009, 02:43:09 PM
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I've been trying to remember when I graduated. I know I went in in June 1974 and it seems I was in for 8 months, but don't remember. I do remember I was on the front row a really long time. Took forever to go home. Mouthed off big time during an open meeting. I remember my first day back at school--"I don't want to talk to you." Shivering at that memory.
I remember a brother and sister who lived in Plantation. I think she was my oldcomer for a very short time. They got in trouble when I tried to split.
I remember moral inventories. Sheesh.
I've buried a lot and I think that's why I did a search on The Seed and found this place. Not something you can talk about with people who don't know.
Thanks for reading.
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i got started over for telling my friends to get away from me and begging them to not talk to me.
funny - my 30th high school reunion recently and all those great old friends were there. all of them. every last one of them.
many of us still take surfing trips to bali, hawaii, costa rica, etc., and we still communicate on a daily basis.
irony and opposites...
not one person from the seed is in my life.
be warned, if you are a real "new" person.
there are mostly seed supporters here.
pigs!
complete pigs.
people that love to pretend they are humans, but they are brainwashed pigs. cowards.
many post using various different sign ins.
they'll try to get you into their little games.
just post how much you hate barker and wish him dead!!!
they'll soon call you a pedophile, and try to discredit you.
but keep in your mind.
your friends are your friends.
and these seed supporters are pigs.
bacon to be fried.
these pigs -- that post of their wonderful memories of being cattle pronged, deserve to be fried!!!
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Thanks for the warning, but I try to keep my mind open as well as my eyes and ears. I'll pretty much post what I want, when I want. Isn't that why we're here?
My 35th reunion is next year. Amazing. Haven't heard what's up for it. I don't live in FL anymore, so haven't been in touch with anyone in a very long time. Probably 25 years--the last reunion I went to was my 10th.
Are you still in FL? Where and when were you in the Seed?
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i was in for one year when i was 14. 1972. in all three places. ft. lauderdale, blimp hangar and tropical park. at the time they made it appear it was about growth and expansion, but we've come to know it was about cities not wanting anything to do with barker.
they were kicked out of tropical park by the mayor of miami. kicked out of their temporary blimp hangar. (what a hole that was.)
and finally, kicked out of business.
i live in japan. haven't lived in florida since 1990.
a white christmas for sure. it snowed about 2 feet last night. and still falling.
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I apologize for not responding sooner. No white Christmas for us--we had less than an inch of snow. Cold as hell though. My family is all in FL and they start whining when it gets all the way up to 60! They're finally convinced I won't be moving back down there.
I remember Tropical Park very well--not when it was the Seed, though. I lived less than two blocks from there. The drive-in theatre was near it. We went all the time as kids. Huge flea market on Sundays. A few fond memories, I guess. I'm not familiar at all with the blimp hangar. Where was that?
I left Miami in 1976, kept moving north. Couldn't wait to get out of that state. Would like to go to my high school reunion next year though. Wow. Next year is only a day away.
Happy 2010 to you!
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re: Tropical park.. from what i can glean here( trolls be damned) tropical park was the worst, the most destructive. interested to here more from anyone who was there.. curious to me why trolls would maintain such a consistent interest in this site, if they have no agenda other than vandalism... odd, ain't it?
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tropical park was the worst.
at the blimp hangar if you ran fast enough, you could get out the back and keep on going. i saw a few escape that way.
tropical park was impossible to escape. but, i did see one kid leap from the front row and dive out the plate glass window and fall to the bottom floor. i never saw him return.
always wondered what happened to that kid.
my last day was at tropical. on my 15th birthday, i told them i was never coming back. and i didn't.
i guess they didn't push it after one year of that hell, because my parents had no money to give them.
my dad yanked my sister and then i refused to return.
best birthday gift i ever had.
fuck, its amazing i grew up suppressing all that shit.
i'm sure i could have gone on and executed that mutherfucker - or better to put it -- daughter - minor fucker name fart fucking barfer.
i'll relish his cancer ladened death.
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when i hit age of majority I told them (arthur and dennis) that i wanted my money( i had taken in enough taped to my person that i could live on the street for a while) and that it was time to go. They told me no, they couldn't legally hold me but that they could "physically" hold me. the way the game was played , then, was that they would hit you, and when you struck back ( two or more of them, one of you) they would call the cops (metro-dade) and swear an assault warrant. Within days, you went before "maximum Morphonius" and were remanded to custody.. Until you were 21. no criminal charges, no appeal. no wonder so many incarcerations, re-incarcerations, one-car crashes, overdoses, and suicide by cop. what a mystery it is.
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SUCK A DICK FAG
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when i hit age of majority I told them (arthur and dennis) that i wanted my money (i had taken in enough taped to my person that i could live on the street for a while) and that it was time to go. They told me no, they couldn't legally hold me but that they could "physically" hold me. the way the game was played, then, was that they would hit you, and when you struck back (two or more of them, one of you) they would call the cops (metro-dade) and swear an assault warrant. Within days, you went before "maximum Morphonius" and were remanded to custody.. Until you were 21. no criminal charges, no appeal. no wonder so many incarcerations, re-incarcerations, one-car crashes, overdoses, and suicide by cop. what a mystery it is
i am certain you never got your money.
there was another black guy that kicked me in the back -- don was his name, a court ordered loser, he kicked me because i wasn't sitting close enough to the circle during a - guy rap -- is what he said. honestly, i looked at the guy and said, my dad hates niggers and when he finds out what you just did, he'll fucking kill you. nobody said a word to me when i said that. don never touched me again.
my oldcomers brother was in law school at THE U. he got suckered in somehow, and dropped out of law school for that fucked up mess. after two weeks he stood up and said, i'm out of here. and tried to walk out. this was at tropical park. he was at least 22 years old, perhaps a few years older. every male staff member jumped on him and beat the crap out of him. he was screaming and crying and beat all to hell. he didn't leave that day, they tied him up. he was obviously restrained, and yes that is kidnapping.
he was gone the next day though. i hope he was able to get back into law school.
never heard from him again.
don't know what happened.
wonder how many lawsuits were quietly settled?
do you notice that erica is back? constantly talking about other men's male organs?
and this guy wasn't even in the seed.
scat kings. what can you do?
he's yet to see that with all the fake posts and fake sign ins, nobody has ever actually had a conversation with him.
sad isn't it.
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"Thanks for the warning, but I try to keep my mind open as well as my eyes and ears."
Christ. I wrote that, just read it, and had a flashback. My first day a staff member (Susie??) told me "take the cotton out of your ears and stick it in your mouth." I wish these memories wouldn't come on so sudden. And why after all these years?wtf?
I've spent some time reading old threads--haven't seen the pro-Seed commenters you mentioned. Really just a lot of shit from someone who's really sick. Don't waste my time reading them once I've seen the subject title.
I'm wondering Oh, fuck it. I thought this place would help. Thanks. At least you seem to understand.
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Guet22 wrote
I've spent some time reading old threads--haven't seen the pro-Seed commenters you mentioned. Really just a lot of shit from someone who's really sick. Don't waste my time reading them once I've seen the subject title.
"22" If you read a lot of the old posts, then you would know who it is you've talkink with.
(I'm just sayin')
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Guet22 wroteI've spent some time reading old threads--haven't seen the pro-Seed commenters you mentioned. Really just a lot of shit from someone who's really sick. Don't waste my time reading them once I've seen the subject title.
"22" If you read a lot of the old posts, then you would know who it is you've talkink with.
(I'm just sayin')
I read a lot of them, none-ya, thanks. I tend to give people the benefit of doubt until I'm personally involved. Considering Stack was the only one to reply to my very first post, I commend him for that. He starts fucking with me, well, that's another story. :karma:
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Considering Stack was the only one to reply to my very first post, I commend him for that. He starts fucking with me, well, that's another story.
I remeber your 1st post andI wasn't sure if you were a real newbie or someone looking to stir up pot again. The seed thread has been pretty much useless for a while now 'cause of the "smut trolls".
Iv'e been looking for suvivors from St. Pete Seed '73-'74, only found 1 person, whom I didn't know anyway.
Thank god x-mas is over
NNO MORE JINGLE BELLS
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Just another seed survivor. But you knew that. You've yelled at me before. But i'm not going to take it personally, 'cause you seem to do it to everybody.Know this, I too hate the seed. Hated it then still hate those phony bastards.
When you were in lauderdale, do you remember a punk named Doug Summers? He came back to St. Pete as staff.
But I knew him from school before the seed. He got sent there before they opened the St. pete branch.
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"stack jones doesn't fuck with anybody."
I'd really like to believe you, but I know better from what I've seen here in this forum. Hell, what you just wrote to none-ya is what I'm talking about. Steer your anger to where and to whom it belongs. A lot of us are in the same boat--trying to deal with all that happened to us. We came here, at least I did, looking for answers, support, some understanding maybe.
I've never been bothered by any of the delusional fantasies of yours re Barker or any of the other monsters. But when you tell another survivor to fuck off, well, IMHO, that's where you step over the line and start fucking with people.
You're fortunate that you have family members, a strong support system that know exactly what the fuck you experienced. Most of us don't. I'm asking that you try to remember that before you start fucking with people here. :peace:
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Stack,
I just wish you would realize that we AGREE with your feelings about the seed and barker and all the bad shit that came out of there. But why so much disdain for fellow survivors? We all got through it the best we could.
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stack wrote
lucymax. none-ya.
sorry your parents put you in that hell. really i am.
I don't know about lucymax, but I was court ordered. That's why when I finally escaped I still woud up going to jail.
Which believe it or not, was better than the seed. Time moved FASTER, if you can believe that.
so once again
FUCK THE SEED
FUCK ART BARKER
FUCK LYBBIE
FUCK SUZIE
FUCK JOHN UNDERWOOD
FUCK ARTHUR (?)
AND FUCK DOUG SUMMERS
LONG LIVE THE TRUE SUVIVORS!!!
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stack wrote
lucymax. none-ya.
sorry your parents put you in that hell. really i am.
I don't know about lucymax, but I was court ordered. That's why when I finally escaped I still woud up going to jail.
Which believe it or not, was better than the seed. Time moved FASTER, if you can believe that.
so once again
FUCK THE SEED
FUCK ART BARKER
FUCK LYBBIE
FUCK SUZIE
FUCK JOHN UNDERWOOD
FUCK ARTHUR (?)
AND FUCK DOUG SUMMERS
LONG LIVE THE TRUE SUVIVORS!!!
John Underwood, it has to be the same guy, he also worked at Elan in late 76/77. Blond hair had a Puerta Rican wife, no disrespect intended,
just posting for identification purposes. Get back to me please. I know it is the same guy he was older when he got to Elan. Been around, smoked tiquana
cigars small ones. Who knows.
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No a jukie from New York. See old seed posts. I think he even posted here a while back.
Seems to me he had dark hair
He worked at both Ft. Lauderdale and St. Petersburg seed locations.
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No a jukie from New York. See old seed posts. I think he even posted here a while back.
Seems to me he had dark hair
He worked at both Ft. Lauderdale and St. Petersburg seed locations.
Thanks,
Had a Director come to Elan of the same name, had been around awhile I think he was in his early 50's.
He was also a ex-junkie, I don't remember where he was from.
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From about four and a half years ago:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11132 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11132)
The Seed was an ideal, not Art Barker, not Shelly Barker, not myself or any other staff member.
Principles such as self-honesty, self-respect, brotherly love, courage, and a willingness to dedicate yourself to these convictions constituted the ideal. Be your own best friend while learning to love yourself was the intended pursuit, ...agenda if you will. The inability (or unwillingness) to separate personalities and methodology from what The Seed offered was never a problem for me, I was lucky I guess. I got it from day one when I was still in the front row with the cotton in my mouth.
This ideal remains the foundation of my life to this day, which is why, in part, I initially hesitated at the request to post at a site, (which I only learned of the night before last), that on the surface appears contrary. Nevertheless, some lingering, probably ill-advised, sense of responsibility to those who were in the program led me here today.
After a cursory journey through the postings I was appalled, but after some reflection I decided some of you might be sincerely interested in the first-hand knowledge and views of another Seed graduate, one who worked there for 6 years. Those who use this site solely to spout venom for its own sake, and thrive on the venom of others, probably should stop here. You won't be interested.
First, some specific questions posed at this site. No, neither Art or anyone at The Seed in a position of responsibility, had any affiliation whatsoever with Synanon. There was a rehab in Wilton Manors, Spectrum House, that was loosely modeled after Synanon. The program was inspired by Alcoholics Anonymous, modified by Art, (with the help and suggestions of others such as Dave R., [who did have a degree in psychology], his wife and others whose names allude me), to better fit the drug culture. Initially it was informal rap sessions with a dozen or so participants. However, as the program grew, outside monies were acquired, parental and court(s) involvement became a factor, thus rules were necessitated. The steps were a tailored version of the 12 Steps of AA. All of the signs and slogans, i.e. "You Are Not Alone," "First Things First," "Easy Does It," et al, are the same ones that are postered on the walls of AA. This is not any great mystery.
No full-time Seed staff member with any meaningful duration of service and dedication to the ideal had anything whatsoever to do with Straight. We thought it was conceived and based in conceit, ...we thought it was dangerous! The relentlessness of parents who believed they knew how to better operate The Seed and the problems arising from their zealousness is the only reason The Seed left St. Petersburg. They got what they wanted. The perception that government reports, the Times, or grant money had any effect on Art or those of us in positions of responsibility is farcical. We thought it was a joke and could not have cared less. As stated, however, the volume of parental interference was intolerable. The irony here, of course, is that many of your postings suggest and allege excessive fervor, while personally we were accused on a regular basis, by parents, of being "too soft."
Which brings me to allegations of physical abuse posted at this site. This was never acceptable or tolerated under any circumstances. I am not omnipotent, nor was anyone I worked with. Despite popular belief, we did not know everything that occurred away from The Seed. If I, or anyone I was close to, even suspected physical abuse, the consequence to the perpetrator would have been severe. I read one post that stated kids were taken outside and beaten while the group sang to cover up the sound. This, like several similar posts, is 100% bullshit, and undermines the credibility this site! There are some things that no one could have or would have got away with!
Personally, I had no problem coming down on those whose disruptive personalities were defined by arrogance, self-centeredness, lack of respect and consideration of others. I had a very low tolerance for self-indulgent, immature, unnecessary and inappropriate behavior. That hasn't changed. Stupidity always carries a consequence.
What happened? (To the program and me) As the program expanded more rules and regulations, or at least the rigidity of enforcement, was necessitated to maintain control. This occurred in direct proportion to growth. It is my opinion, and mine alone, that the amount of control actually needed was far less than that perceived necessary, which was integral to the eventual downfall of The Seed. Not enough competent staff to go around was an obvious problem, but not to everyone. Good people, dedicated staff were thrown in over their heads, without adequate support, particularly in St. Pete and Cleveland. An unfortunate situation that led to many of the problems at St. Pete and, as previously stated, one that many of the St. Pete parents attempted to exploit. Art and The Seed is analogous to a parent who lives in fear of his child growing up and going out on their own. He wouldn't have it, and this was fatal to the potential of The Seed, the dream. The dream and the vision were Art's, and he deserves the appropriate credit. For the record, (as it is the subject many posts here), his oft embarrassing showboating, sometimes bordering on buffoonery, were irrelevant to me. Personalities were minor details in my mind when compared to what we wanted to achieve, and my respect for his initial goal was never diminished because of his behavior, nor was my respect for what he had accomplished. Nevertheless, refusal to concede that The Seed, the ideal had become bigger, and in my mind more important than Art, was akin to blasphemy, and at the core of the demise.
"Art is The Seed," was thrown at me during a confrontation with Lybbi on my final night at The Seed, in front of Art and Shelly. Prophetic, in that the program was to shrink to proportions that made this true. When my loyalty after all those years was questioned, my only response was that my loyalty was to "The Seed first, Art second." This distinction was deemed unacceptable in no uncertain terms that very night. So I left.
I realize that, by no stretch of the imagination, does this answer all of the questions nor allay any of the ill feelings, nor is it my intent to do so.
I wrote earlier of my initial disdain so I will close by commenting on the characterizations used by some to relate The Seed experience. Terms like "survivors" used to portray faux heroism for enduring an ordeal, the suffering experienced for having to eat peanut butter and jelly and sit in hard chairs, sleeping in uncomfortable conditions, comparing the experience to Korean brainwashing facilities or gulags, speaks volumes about who you are, and is reflective of the spoiled, self-indulgent mind set you still carry, and your ridiculously exaggerated sense of self-importance. This isn't just your problem, it seems to be a common and acceptable malady in today's America. When one of you volunteers to live on the streets of Sao Paolo or Calcutta for a month, actually spends time in a North Korean prison, takes up residence in the bush of the west Congo, et al, then perhaps you may be qualified to speak about survival.
Love, willingness, faith and acceptance, mixed with some gratitude and humility, nurtured to fruition with unwavering, rigorous self-honesty, that hopefully lead to greater self awareness, was the order of business at The Seed to me. Those who got it and wanted to learn, did.
Those who didn't, evidently, are at this web site.
Nevertheless, I do congratulate Greg and Ginger for providing a forum that allows all opinions to be heard. At least I don't think the First Amendment has been incorporated into the Patriot Act yet, hold on let me check today's paper....
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From about four and a half years ago:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11132 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11132)
The Seed was an ideal, not Art Barker, not Shelly Barker, not myself or any other staff member.
Principles such as self-honesty, self-respect, brotherly love, courage, and a willingness to dedicate yourself to these convictions constituted the ideal. Be your own best friend while learning to love yourself was the intended pursuit, ...agenda if you will. The inability (or unwillingness) to separate personalities and methodology from what The Seed offered was never a problem for me, I was lucky I guess. I got it from day one when I was still in the front row with the cotton in my mouth.
This ideal remains the foundation of my life to this day, which is why, in part, I initially hesitated at the request to post at a site, (which I only learned of the night before last), that on the surface appears contrary. Nevertheless, some lingering, probably ill-advised, sense of responsibility to those who were in the program led me here today.
After a cursory journey through the postings I was appalled, but after some reflection I decided some of you might be sincerely interested in the first-hand knowledge and views of another Seed graduate, one who worked there for 6 years. Those who use this site solely to spout venom for its own sake, and thrive on the venom of others, probably should stop here. You won't be interested.
First, some specific questions posed at this site. No, neither Art or anyone at The Seed in a position of responsibility, had any affiliation whatsoever with Synanon. There was a rehab in Wilton Manors, Spectrum House, that was loosely modeled after Synanon. The program was inspired by Alcoholics Anonymous, modified by Art, (with the help and suggestions of others such as Dave R., [who did have a degree in psychology], his wife and others whose names allude me), to better fit the drug culture. Initially it was informal rap sessions with a dozen or so participants. However, as the program grew, outside monies were acquired, parental and court(s) involvement became a factor, thus rules were necessitated. The steps were a tailored version of the 12 Steps of AA. All of the signs and slogans, i.e. "You Are Not Alone," "First Things First," "Easy Does It," et al, are the same ones that are postered on the walls of AA. This is not any great mystery.
No full-time Seed staff member with any meaningful duration of service and dedication to the ideal had anything whatsoever to do with Straight. We thought it was conceived and based in conceit, ...we thought it was dangerous! The relentlessness of parents who believed they knew how to better operate The Seed and the problems arising from their zealousness is the only reason The Seed left St. Petersburg. They got what they wanted. The perception that government reports, the Times, or grant money had any effect on Art or those of us in positions of responsibility is farcical. We thought it was a joke and could not have cared less. As stated, however, the volume of parental interference was intolerable. The irony here, of course, is that many of your postings suggest and allege excessive fervor, while personally we were accused on a regular basis, by parents, of being "too soft."
Which brings me to allegations of physical abuse posted at this site. This was never acceptable or tolerated under any circumstances. I am not omnipotent, nor was anyone I worked with. Despite popular belief, we did not know everything that occurred away from The Seed. If I, or anyone I was close to, even suspected physical abuse, the consequence to the perpetrator would have been severe. I read one post that stated kids were taken outside and beaten while the group sang to cover up the sound. This, like several similar posts, is 100% bullshit, and undermines the credibility this site! There are some things that no one could have or would have got away with!
Personally, I had no problem coming down on those whose disruptive personalities were defined by arrogance, self-centeredness, lack of respect and consideration of others. I had a very low tolerance for self-indulgent, immature, unnecessary and inappropriate behavior. That hasn't changed. Stupidity always carries a consequence.
What happened? (To the program and me) As the program expanded more rules and regulations, or at least the rigidity of enforcement, was necessitated to maintain control. This occurred in direct proportion to growth. It is my opinion, and mine alone, that the amount of control actually needed was far less than that perceived necessary, which was integral to the eventual downfall of The Seed. Not enough competent staff to go around was an obvious problem, but not to everyone. Good people, dedicated staff were thrown in over their heads, without adequate support, particularly in St. Pete and Cleveland. An unfortunate situation that led to many of the problems at St. Pete and, as previously stated, one that many of the St. Pete parents attempted to exploit. Art and The Seed is analogous to a parent who lives in fear of his child growing up and going out on their own. He wouldn't have it, and this was fatal to the potential of The Seed, the dream. The dream and the vision were Art's, and he deserves the appropriate credit. For the record, (as it is the subject many posts here), his oft embarrassing showboating, sometimes bordering on buffoonery, were irrelevant to me. Personalities were minor details in my mind when compared to what we wanted to achieve, and my respect for his initial goal was never diminished because of his behavior, nor was my respect for what he had accomplished. Nevertheless, refusal to concede that The Seed, the ideal had become bigger, and in my mind more important than Art, was akin to blasphemy, and at the core of the demise.
"Art is The Seed," was thrown at me during a confrontation with Lybbi on my final night at The Seed, in front of Art and Shelly. Prophetic, in that the program was to shrink to proportions that made this true. When my loyalty after all those years was questioned, my only response was that my loyalty was to "The Seed first, Art second." This distinction was deemed unacceptable in no uncertain terms that very night. So I left.
I realize that, by no stretch of the imagination, does this answer all of the questions nor allay any of the ill feelings, nor is it my intent to do so.
I wrote earlier of my initial disdain so I will close by commenting on the characterizations used by some to relate The Seed experience. Terms like "survivors" used to portray faux heroism for enduring an ordeal, the suffering experienced for having to eat peanut butter and jelly and sit in hard chairs, sleeping in uncomfortable conditions, comparing the experience to Korean brainwashing facilities or gulags, speaks volumes about who you are, and is reflective of the spoiled, self-indulgent mind set you still carry, and your ridiculously exaggerated sense of self-importance. This isn't just your problem, it seems to be a common and acceptable malady in today's America. When one of you volunteers to live on the streets of Sao Paolo or Calcutta for a month, actually spends time in a North Korean prison, takes up residence in the bush of the west Congo, et al, then perhaps you may be qualified to speak about survival.
Love, willingness, faith and acceptance, mixed with some gratitude and humility, nurtured to fruition with unwavering, rigorous self-honesty, that hopefully lead to greater self awareness, was the order of business at The Seed to me. Those who got it and wanted to learn, did.
Those who didn't, evidently, are at this web site.
Nevertheless, I do congratulate Greg and Ginger for providing a forum that allows all opinions to be heard. At least I don't think the First Amendment has been incorporated into the Patriot Act yet, hold on let me check today's paper....
No that is not John Underwood I knew not that the other John was any more pleasing.
This is there typical irrational talk about human suffering they percieve as worse.
A generation before me and one I'm a part of, corporal punishment is ok.
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"I got it from day one when I was still in the front row with the cotton in my mouth."
I'm laughing because I just had that memory flash a couple of days ago. "Take the cotton out of your ears and stick it in your mouth."
And Spectrum House. Sheesh. I almost got started over when I was an oldcomer because I visited that place. I'm pretty sure that was the name of it. Some chick (another oldcomer) ratted me out when I told her I'd gone. She was staying overnight at my house. For the life of me, I can't think why she was there, or her name now.
I wish sometimes the memories would either go away or come flooding back in full force. I just remembered the two girls who carpooled from Miami to Lauderdale. Haven't thought of them in years
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Lucy max said
I wish sometimes the memories would either go away or come flooding back in full force.
Just have someone poke you in the back and tell youto"get out of your head!
Or maybe deny yourself bathroom privileges for 10-12 hrs.
You will start to remember.
JINGLE BELLS ALWAYS DOES IT FOR ME
(no really, I 'll hate that song for the rest of my life)
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No a jukie from New York. See old seed posts. I think he even posted here a while back.
Seems to me he had dark hair
He worked at both Ft. Lauderdale and St. Petersburg seed locations.
He's also described as follows (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=349&p=2133#p2133) by FueLaw:
John Underwood was a senior staff member in '73-'74. I am not sure what happend after that. He was a big skinny guy from New York with blondish/brown hair. I also remember Arthur, another heavy set black guy named Robert who used to cut hair, a lady named Debbie del Bueno( or something to that effect) Penny, a heavy set black lady who was a good singer, there was a guy named Scott who was also from New York,. Back then they had facilities in Ft. Lauderdale, St. pete, Ft Pierce, and Miami, I was in Miami when they closed and merged with broward. I think they kind of rotated the staff members.[/list]
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Thanks,
Ursus I appreciate your efforts. Danny
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Do any of you south Fl. vets , remember if Charlie Morgan (Morgan yacht) had a kid in the seed down there?
Possibly Charlie Jr. And that's why he donated the Building in St. Pete? Any thruth?
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:poison: