Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: Anonymous on October 25, 2004, 02:55:00 PM
-
This woman was purely mean, she did not need to be in charge of kids.
-
I did not like her much at all, my attitude to her back then was to stay away from her kind of like a mean dog that bites, of course now that I am older and wiser if a dog snaps at me I kick the shit out of it.
-
When i look back at those times at RMA 90-92, I can't believe how some of those ataff tried to intimidate me a 15 year old kid. I would like to take some of those male counselers out honkytonkin with me, my biker, and redneck buddies now. They would probally be fine until we started drinking corn liqour and one of them tried to take care of his feelings. ::armed:: ::armed:: ::armed:: ::armed:: ::armed:: ::armed:: ::armed:: ::armed::
-
On 2004-10-25 13:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"When i look back at those times at RMA 90-92, I can't believe how some of those ataff tried to intimidate me a 15 year old kid. I would like to take some of those male counselers out honkytonkin with me, my biker, and redneck buddies now. They would probally be fine until we started drinking corn liqour and one of them tried to take care of his feelings. ::armed:: ::armed:: ::armed:: ::armed:: ::armed:: ::armed:: ::armed:: ::armed:: "
that was me I forgot to log in. yeehaw
-
On 2004-10-25 13:07:00, southern boy wrote:
"I did not like her much at all, my attitude to her back then was to stay away from her kind of like a mean dog that bites, of course now that I am older and wiser if a dog snaps at me I kick the shit out of it."
HAHAHAHAHA. That's exactly how I felt ahout her. I remember her tit REDUCTION surgery. :rofl:
-
She was a psycho I remember in this rap once this guy was sitting there, and all of the sudden she accused him of having sexual thoughts about her. That kid did not know what to say, and after the rap she told her clique she was going to strip him down of his manhood. What a bitch!
-
I would very much like to know the story of what happened to C. Wolf(e) and Randy Eide. Does anyone know if they still work with kids or when did they stop with CEDU?
Do you know these people I am talking about? anyone?
-
I was in with her as a student in R.S. Her real name was Jenny, they got her to change it for some reason or another. She was damn hot at the time, probably working there turned her into a bitch.
-
Rreally? Caroline's name was Jenny. Now that, I don't think I know. are you quite sure we speak of the same blonde?
Maybe she was from Chicago, but maybe cali.
-
Yeah, it's the same one. I knew her in R.S. in the late 70's. She was with some guy then named Karl who changed his name to Josh. CEDU was big on getting people to change their names then.
-
the josh guy was a handyman who lived on site and liked country stuff like alabama get a username and you can be sent private messages.
-
Randy her husband while I was there, ran some of my workshops including taking me on a very strange tour of Montana at one time. Jenny. Blowsmeaway. Well, then, where are they now. What was Jenny nee caroline like as a student? she was one of those staff... who I'd like to "contact". Just got a note for her. And Randy...any comments?
-
She was hot, everyone wanted to do her. I didn't notice much else to be honest.
-
Are these people all out of a job now?
-
Forgive my original post here...Caroline humiliated me numerous times and I guess I let it get to me too much. I haven't thought about any of this for a really long time, and apparently I still have some unresolved issues.[ This Message was edited by: vortexwx on 2005-04-10 14:58 ]
-
WHO WOULDN'T?
-
It cracks me up seeing this stuff cause when I knew her she was just a student and had no authority at all. Guess this is someone who can't handle any power.
-
she was SUCH a bitch. talk about absolute power corrupting? she took the cake, that one.
-
they split up. Eventually randy left rma got Coked up and was looking upold rma grads to party with.
-
Does anyone know where Caroline Wolf is?
- Mark
-
She was NOT what was needed at RMA .. sh sucked safety away like a leech .. Im a pretty damn hardened guy now, but man.. there were times where you couldnt help but feel vulnerable .. and that woman was not the right person to be there in charge.
SRandy left her and she was kicked out of RMA after being caught screwing some tall skinny blonde student who all the girls talked about having a huge penis.
I guess it was let out that alot of the time she was there.. there was all sorts of crap like that happening in her house with her special clique.. which i was invited into .. and repeatedly just didn't ... got this wanna be cool no matter what vibe off of her.. everythign just felt fake around her. ...
I will admit .. i had alot of sexual pent up fantasies about dominating the living shit out of her and using her like a goddamn whore.
And I still think that would have been healthy if acted out... for her.. and for me... I know she would have loved it.
But then again she's be all over my shit like an attention leech after that so whatever...
All what I wrote was true here.. go ask others that were there.
She even walked around in barely-there lingere one time. in a rap.
I bet she is a prostitute whore now, calling herself an "escort".... or dead by another cheated on husband, boyfriend or suicide.
Very wrong person then... dunno bout now.
-
Caroline went into buisness with Barbara Walters daughter - escort/behavioral manipulation work.
Randy left to start a school in AZ. but started doing one of his former students, got her pregnant, they were married- not sure where they are now.
-
On 2005-04-25 20:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
"She was NOT what was needed at RMA .. sh sucked safety away like a leech .. Im a pretty damn hardened guy now, but man.. there were times where you couldnt help but feel vulnerable .. and that woman was not the right person to be there in charge.
SRandy left her and she was kicked out of RMA after being caught screwing some tall skinny blonde student who all the girls talked about having a huge penis.
I guess it was let out that alot of the time she was there.. there was all sorts of crap like that happening in her house with her special clique.. which i was invited into .. and repeatedly just didn't ... got this wanna be cool no matter what vibe off of her.. everythign just felt fake around her. ...
I will admit .. i had alot of sexual pent up fantasies about dominating the living shit out of her and using her like a goddamn whore.
And I still think that would have been healthy if acted out... for her.. and for me... I know she would have loved it.
But then again she's be all over my shit like an attention leech after that so whatever...
All what I wrote was true here.. go ask others that were there.
She even walked around in barely-there lingere one time. in a rap.
I bet she is a prostitute whore now, calling herself an "escort".... or dead by another cheated on husband, boyfriend or suicide.
Very wrong person then... dunno bout now.
"
It must be a glorious feeling to be Caroline. To come to this site and read how sucessful she was in her function there. I mean what were her duties? To break down teenage kids, who obviously must already have some issues with adult authourity To rile them up and do whatever WHATEVER it takes, to shake them up and bring forth emotions. It didn't matter what happened as long as she got a reaction from you...NOW.
Here is the thing:
About Caroline- she would NOT STOP fucking with you until she got a reaction out of you. Quiet kid, junkie, slut, dork, bully, yardie, or deaf/mute. It didn't matter what the fuck you were because she WAS going to push, and push and push until she got an OVERREACTION. With HOSTILITY.
She terrorized me on several occasions to the point that I DID get up and walk out.(...You know what that means. So because I stood up to her one time, I was expelled. And I left for six weeks).
That is what was SO wrong. I mean, even during the few occasions I was in raps with her as an older student I JUST knew, instincively, that she was doing more harm than good- better than 50 percent of the time. My opinion is that it was ALL harm...but I want to be fair.
-
On 2005-06-03 16:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Caroline went into buisness with Barbara Walters daughter - escort/behavioral manipulation work.
"
I think I have to barf.
-blownaway
-
God it makes me so sick to think these schools shut down but the same people and methodology get recycled over and over again.
-
It's sort of aggravating, isn't it?
-
Randy Eide knocked up/married Colleen Alprin and I heard they live/lived in some southern Cali town near Bakersfield. I remember hearing about Caroline doing some male student.I can't remember.
-
Anyone know where she is now?
-
On 2005-06-04 04:37:00, blownawaytheidahoway wrote:
"
On 2005-06-03 16:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Caroline went into buisness with Barbara Walters daughter - escort/behavioral manipulation work.
"
I think I have to barf.
-blownaway
"
Her and Jackie? Holy shit. I wonder if they are still doing it.
-
Hey if she's escorting I'll pony up
-
ohmigod!
I WOULD TOO.
-
LOL
-
I truly cannot forget that womans face or voice.
I cannot stress enough how bad CEDU must've made her for her to feel sure she was doing the right thing by saying those things in that manner. Do you people remember these alumni that were counselors? My god, just think what they must've been thinking? Did they, or did the program do all of the thinking for them? I mean... is it truly possible that this woman still works with kids? She's not in jail for going homicidal at the Kootnai Club or something? Don't you at least need a license to kidnap?
forget it.
-
yankees suck
-
Well, I know that Jackie is running that "New Horizons" school up in Maine. I have no idea if Caroline is one of the faculty there, though.
-
You think they're gettin it on in the house?
-
Does anyone know where Caroline is working? I have not been able to find anything on her using the web but am very interested to know if she is working in the therapeutic boarding school industry. I'd like to drop a dime to her new employer to alert them to her past illegal and unethical activity at RMA.
Please let me know, either publicly or privately.
Best, M
-
On 2005-10-14 07:36:00, mad wrote:
"Does anyone know where Caroline is working? I have not been able to find anything on her using the web but am very interested to know if she is working in the therapeutic boarding school industry. I'd like to drop a dime to her new employer to alert them to her past illegal and unethical activity at RMA.
Please let me know, either publicly or privately.
Best, M"
Well, if she is indeed working for New Horizons, you aren't going to get very far, because Jackie started that school, and she and Jackie were working together before that. They have been friends since Jackie was a student at RMA.
-
guber?
-
yeah, guber.
-
Ya think they're doin the wild thang together? :rofl:
-
On 2005-10-15 11:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ya think they're doin the wild thang together? :rofl: "
Hasn't this been covered already?
-
Never can cover that one enough. :lol:
-
bleah... the thought of that kind of nauseates me. But then again, I never thought Caroline was all that attractive.
What's this illegal stuff that she did that people in this thread have been talking about?
-
Sucked a burro's dick on the internet in New Jersey. They have state laws against that shit you know! These staff need to stop thinking that just cuz it's ok in Idaho (and anywhere that they can still execute you by means of the gallows or a firing squad probably doesn't have strict laws), doesn't mean they can come blow animals for a living in the East!
Actually, I guess Caroline was from California. But as a 3-year running transplant to Cali, this place is almost as fucked up as potato country. Almost.
But DAMN the bitches are fine.
-
she is from california, cuz she told me.
she, i think, at one time encourage an underground in rma that led to some kids being switched to bca.
i remember a male staff member telling me she had a great ass. this was after she gave me a pair of jeans that no longer fit. im very concerned with my ass now, thank you very much!
she was certainly concerned with cool, but more so with power and the physical make-up of her clique.
Laurie came from the same place from her: LA, prostitution and drugs. it was a shame that she worked in administration.
-
I remember hearing about that "underground". It was apparently because she was so disheartened by the changes that were being made to the school. The only thing I heard about was that she would hold contests with her student clique to see who could get the most "dirty" on their home visits. I don't know any of the other details.
re: the jeans. She must have lost some weight. When I was there, she was quite um... zaftig. well... she was fat. I think I remember seeing a rocky mountain times that the school sent me with a pic of caroline and randy and caroline was totally skinny and I was like WTF? Holy shit.
But I'll always remember her as fat.
-
Too bad she got fat. She was super athletic with a big rack when I knew her.
-
On 2005-10-20 19:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Too bad she got fat. She was super athletic with a big rack when I knew her."
No no. She was fat in the 80s. You probably knew her after she lost that weight. Unless you are from CEDU in the 70s.
_________________
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 19:25 ]
-
On 2005-10-20 19:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Too bad she got fat. She was super athletic with a big rack when I knew her."
Ooooh man the stretch marks she must've had on those tig ol' bitties. ::noway::
-
'70's. She was like 18 or something. There was another hot one there named Christine that she used to always hang with.
-
Caroline and Jackie are partners. Jackie's mom announced that on television.
-
Sexual partners or business partners? She could have meant the latter.
I find it odd, because when I was going to RMA, Caroline was very homophobic.
-
No, business. Jackie has a male significant other.
-
That's what I thought. I was confused at first because of that other guy talking about them "getting it on."
----> Castle
-
Sounds like Jenny really hit the jackpot there :wink:
-
On 2005-10-24 17:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"No, business. Jackie has a male significant other."
Never heard of 3somes?
-
I think this thread has become a joke.
-
setting the record straight.... yes, when she was at RMA, she had an underground ring, but with only students on her team. She would invite them to her house, and consisted of people that really knew how to be smooth... such as matt rush, molly carleson, etc.... she got fired from RMA early in 1994, and that is when the teams all got split up, and then came up with the new RMA, and recreated their teams specturm, vision, eclipse... etc. because her team and staff got split up amongst the other teams.
Yes, Caroline would treat people with no respect, and had her faveroits, and to the people that were not her faveroits, she would try and strip their self worth away. The strong survived, and let the weak fend for themselves.
The irony is though, that the weak ended up being the ones that she could manupulate, and were the ones that followed her... while the strong people such as myself, graduated college, and are now in business for themself.
People can bash Caroline all they would like to, but in reality, you are now doing and acting like she did at one time. Why not bring more value into your life then that? Why empower her to this day with control over your anger, and feelings?
Joe- PG-56
-
On 2005-11-12 02:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Yes, Caroline would treat people with no respect, and had her faveroits, and to the people that were not her faveroits, she would try and strip their self worth away. The strong survived, and let the weak fend for themselves.
The irony is though, that the weak ended up being the ones that she could manupulate, and were the ones that followed her... while the strong people such as myself, graduated college, and are now in business for themself.
People can bash Caroline all they would like to, but in reality, you are now doing and acting like she did at one time. Why not bring more value into your life then that? Why empower her to this day with control over your anger, and feelings?
Joe- PG-56
"
"get over it" syndrome?
no thanks, joe.
caroline has impacted my life.
she was a jailer and she was enrthralled with the power.
i could use a thousand similies but it don't change the fact...I can't just forgive. I can't just be more confident and not hear her voice anymore. I can blame anything in the world for my problems, as could any of you, but I AM ABSOLUTLEY POSITIVE I would be a happier person without the cedu education i received. i suffer still, and besides therapists and my parent(s) there is nothing except this lameass underappreciated website that i share this shit with.
caroline, you hurt me...bruce you hurt me.
neither of you had ANY clue what you were doing, and whether there are people who disagree with me I DON'T care. it's mine. and i DID NOT ask for it.
most of the staff were just LOST. where are they now?
I'll re post the list...
-
has nothing to do about the get over syndrome... has to do with, speak your mind.. say what you have to to be able to move on... and go after your lawsuits if you need to... She emotionally abused a lot of people, myself included... but reality is... she never controlled me (since i have always been a stuborn prick) and i think that pissed her off more... I agree with you... fuck Caroline and all her ways, and I hope she isn't still working with kids, because if she is, I will find out.. post it... and then do everything in my power to alert the lawyers, district attorneys, and law agencies as to her past, her abuse, and her tendencies to have sex with not only underage persons, but her mentality on mental abuse.
I think that would be the thing i can do to not only protect those children from her self mutilating emotion aspects.... but also make her see that what she did was wrong, and suffer the consequences... as I had to for her bullshit, as you have had to for her bullshit... and that in my opinion is what we should be doing as a collective group... finding all these abusive staff, pressing charges... and move on.
[ This Message was edited by: nashari on 2005-11-17 22:15 ]
-
yes. i concurr. that is what i'm saying. thanks.
and ...we do have the right to know if she is working with anyone (but especially children) in a similar capacity.
-
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een03.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives//2001/4/seen03.html)
NEW HORIZONS WILDERNESS PROGRAM
(March 30, 2001) Caroline Wolf announced the grand opening of New Horizons, an all-female wilderness program based in Orrington, Maine, 207-992-2424, [email protected]. This five to eight week program will open in June of this year. Wolf, who has worked with the CEDU Schools and Second Nature, is working with Jacqueline Danforth, who was associated with Rocky Mountain Academy (A CEDU School). Both were graduates of Emotional Growth schools. They assert this ?is the first East Coast all female program of its kind to be located in the healing, rural landscape of Northern Maine. It will be located in Maine at the ?Gateway to the North Maine Woods.? Further developments will be announced in Woodbury Reports? ?Places for Struggling Teens? newsletter.
-
I have a ski house about 15 miles from there. Can't wait to go break out a bunch of troubled chicks. This is gonna be fuckin' SWEET.
-
Caroline used to own a school called Second Nature in Utah...and then she was fired because she was always drunk. During that time she lived with Nicole Bailey...do you guys remember her?
They were always together when they worked at RMA...She did start the school in Maine with Jackie...but she isn't working there anymore. They removed her from the faculty list in like 2003..I heard that she moved back to L.A. but I'm not sure. She was with some guy over in Maine but they broke up a few years back.
Caroline was only fake homophobic. I know of a couple of students that she slept with...and they weren't only guys. I also heard that she had a thing with Nicole going on, and Matt, and that is one of the reasons that she was let go.
-
I don't remember Nicole. When was she there?
-
I think from like 91 or 92 up until like 95. Then she started teaching at the local highschool in 1996
-
ok. after my time.
Interesting that Caroline had an affair with another woman. Randy was the apple of her eye when I was there. She just thought he was the be all end all. Warbly-voiced dipshit.
_________________
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 19:08 ]
-
I knew Caroline even after I got the hell out of north idaho. She was a bitch to alot of kids at RMA, but she was pretty cool on the outs. She supplied some of us with good shit! She got pretty into women and bad boys there for awhile. Don't know about now though....
-
randy eide. i sure would like to see the unedited version of your comment. you and I were there at teh same time for sure, castle.
randy talked like that because after he left cedu he managed to run witha a gang that got his throat slashed. i think
do you know?/
-
On 2005-12-07 09:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"randy eide. i sure would like to see the unedited version of your comment. you and I were there at teh same time for sure, castle.
randy talked like that because after he left cedu he managed to run witha a gang that got his throat slashed. i think
do you know?/
"
Yeah, I know.
-
On 2005-12-07 09:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"randy eide. i sure would like to see the unedited version of your comment. you and I were there at teh same time for sure, castle.
randy talked like that because after he left cedu he managed to run witha a gang that got his throat slashed. i think
do you know?/
"
Really? Are you serious?
-
totally serial.
-
Are you sure she didn't drive him to suicide? :wink:
-
The last memory I have of Caroline Wolf is standing in Jackie (at the time) Guber's living room and hearing Caroline tell Jackie over the phone that she had heard I flipped out and was in a mental institution. This was shortly after our graduation in '87 from RMA. I got on the phone and told Caroline to stop spreading lies.
Pretty much the last time I ever thought of her until I ran into this forum. Some of these threads are pretty eye opening....
-
How funny. Were you in Jackie's peer group? I knew a couple of people from there. One of them was actually the person who met me and handled my intake the day I got there.
So what was Jackie's reaction to all of that?
-
I knew Guber as well...she was cool...we hung out a bit although she was a one or two peer groups below me...Wolf on the other hand...well...I think that the reason that she worked at RMA was because she wouldn't have been able to hack it in the real world.
glad I found this board...where are the 86-87 grads?
-
did he really die? I was killing time and googled his name. I graduate in '86
-
On 2006-01-15 22:29:00, abe wrote:
"did he really die? I was killing time and googled his name. I graduate in '86"
As far as I know, Randy is still alive. Who here said that he died? All that was mentioned was his gang accident from before he went to work at RMA.
-
when I googled Randy Eide I got a realtor in south dakota or something like that. Can't say if it's the same guy...could be...but not a good enough picture to see his eyes.
-
I'm the realtor in south dakota. If you graduated in 1986, then you have the wrong person. But I appreciate your thinking I look that yong.
-
Caroline is living in Sandpoint now...at least that is what zabasearch says.
-
Last night I had a dream where it was a rma reunion. It soon disembled into a gang- initiation style right of passage involving a lot of flying elbows, feet, and fists. I think I saw you there. Yeah, you punk.
sandpoint or maine?
anyone want to document me finding and confronting Caroline? Is she still working with kids? YES or NO? it's simple, can anytone find out FOR SURE?
enquiring minds like mine wanna know.
It would be great if she were in Maine, then I could stop by and say hi to that dildo bruce wilson too.
what a nice day trip that would be.
-
On 2005-12-05 23:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Caroline used to own a school called Second Nature in Utah...and then she was fired because she was always drunk. During that time she lived with Nicole Bailey...do you guys remember her?
They were always together when they worked at RMA...She did start the school in Maine with Jackie...but she isn't working there anymore. They removed her from the faculty list in like 2003..I heard that she moved back to L.A. but I'm not sure. She was with some guy over in Maine but they broke up a few years back.
Caroline was only fake homophobic. I know of a couple of students that she slept with...and they weren't only guys. I also heard that she had a thing with Nicole going on, and Matt, and that is one of the reasons that she was let go.
"
I wish I had seen this informative post. Do you mind revealing how you have come by this information? You can fib.
I'm curious also how many people who were in CEDU programs went on to be involved in the industry. Not that every one of them is bad or evil, but I'd be curious to see the difference in extremes. Either you're indoctrinated to the point that you give your life over to continuing the education and "theraputic principles" learned at your CEDU school, or you wind up reeling and depressed and "fucked up" by it one way or another. Or just maybe you see the fucked up part in yourself and accept or change it.
I dunno but one thing. Caroline Wolfe WAS a total cunt to me, and I want to tell her. Plain and simple. If she's STILL a cunt, well, I will verbaly humiliate her. Her drive to put kids down was wrong. I don't care whether that was WHY she was hired and PAID, it's a point beyond my changing, but just this one possible dialouge is long in coming...Geraldo...I need you, where are you?
(jerry rivers from lonGIsland. you know)
-
On 2005-12-06 00:09:00, sorry... try another castle wrote:
"I don't remember Nicole. When was she there?
"
Are you talking about Nicole Rowell? Didn't her husband and she work at RMA?
-
I know that Caroline was sleeping with students...I know this information because I was one of them, and I am a female. It was Niccole Bayley, she worked at RMA until about 1995. At that time she was married to a man named Bruce. Then she worked at a public school in Bonners but got caught sleeping with some of the female students, and now she is a lesbian muscian somewhere in southern Idaho.
-
and now she is a lesbian muscian somewhere in southern Idaho.
Now?
Sounds like she was a lesbian way before that. :razz:
-
On 2006-04-18 03:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I know that Caroline was sleeping with students...I know this information because I was one of them, and I am a female. It was Niccole Bayley, she worked at RMA until about 1995. At that time she was married to a man named Bruce. Then she worked at a public school in Bonners but got caught sleeping with some of the female students, and now she is a lesbian muscian somewhere in southern Idaho. "
care to elaborate? I mean hell, you've gone this far, why not break out the juicy details?
You ARE "anonymous" after all aren't you?
I always wondered what happened in her house all those nights there were sleepovers there.
when Dan, Tom, Alexi (sexy lexy) MAN she had some knockers! Shannon, Molly, Athena, Christina, Brit would all sleep over. I knew they were all orgieing.
GIVE US THE GOODS, ANONYMOUS POSTER!!!
.
-
Mine happened at Niccole Bayley's house. I went there on a service project. Caroline gave me wine...and lots of it. I was 16 at the time, and one thing led to another. Her dog Winston was there in the room...and Caroline kept yelling..."Oh my god...you are making me cum...and you are a girl...Oh my god..." and Winston would like freak out and run around the room. I guess it was something in the tone of her voice when she was saying it or something. Anyway...when Niccole found out the next morning she was really pissed off, and she stuck me in a few private rap sessions...but I must admit after that Caroline never ever singled me out or was a bitch to me in raps.
-
On 2006-04-20 22:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Mine happened at Niccole Bayley's house. I went there on a service project. Caroline gave me wine...and lots of it. I was 16 at the time, and one thing led to another.
Her dog Winston was there in the room...and Caroline kept yelling..."Oh my god...you are making me cum...and you are a girl...Oh my god..." and Winston would like freak out and run around the room. I guess it was something in the tone of her voice when she was saying it or something.
Anyway...when Niccole found out the next morning she was really pissed off, and she stuck me in a few private rap sessions...but I must admit after that Caroline never ever singled me out or was a bitch to me in raps. "
Well, there is nothing I can say about that.
-
On 2006-04-20 22:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Mine happened at Niccole Bayley's house. I went there on a service project. Caroline gave me wine...and lots of it. I was 16 at the time, and one thing led to another. Her dog Winston was there in the room...and Caroline kept yelling..."Oh my god...you are making me cum...and you are a girl...Oh my god..." and Winston would like freak out and run around the room. I guess it was something in the tone of her voice when she was saying it or something. Anyway...when Niccole found out the next morning she was really pissed off, and she stuck me in a few private rap sessions...but I must admit after that Caroline never ever singled me out or was a bitch to me in raps. "
at bruce's house on the farm? what did you do? go down on her? toys? i said juicy details. :smile:
man.. so caroline really had her own little sex playground going on with underage kids.
was the experience good for you? do you know of any situations going on with her and guys? or was that the only time you were around caroline sexually? also what else have you heard?
remember you're anonymous so it doesnt matter what truth you say.
and thanks for replying.
-
I know of one guy that she was sleeping with his name was Matt, I think his last name was Rush...but I could be wrong. I know of one other girl that she slept with, but she wasn't a student at RMA, however she was underage. No toys...but everything else...Juicy details...use your imagination...I am sure you can come up with almost all of it. :smokin:
-
caroline wolf was NOT that hot. she was nasty. she was a complete narcissist. the thing about her is that she was mediocre. she wasnt that smart, she wasnt that attractive, she wasnt that powerful. she fronted everything. thankfully, i didnt have that much interaction with her. she tried to fuck with me a few times but lost interest. i thought she was gross and that little randy eide fucker with his tiny eyes and fucked up grill. the thought of them together or of her with any students male or female having sex is really not a sexy thought. she is the type of person who would be into taping themselves having sex and watching it over and over. here is a really gross thought, maybe she hopped into bed with that chicken fucker joe sweeney! eeow!
for guys that post on here that she was hot with big tits and how they would have "done" her should remember that back then you were young and way horned up and she just had a sexuality about her but it wasnt hot or interesting in any way. she was gross and after reading all this shit about her apparently was a real fucking bitch to alot of peeps. if caroline wolf ever comes on this thing and reads this which by the way im sure she does....(narcissist!) i vote you dead!
x, jms 83'-85' RMA grad
-
On 2006-05-04 22:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"caroline wolf was NOT that hot. she was nasty. she was a complete narcissist. the thing about her is that she was mediocre. she wasnt that smart, she wasnt that attractive, she wasnt that powerful. she fronted everything. thankfully, i didnt have that much interaction with her. she tried to fuck with me a few times but lost interest. i thought she was gross and that little randy eide fucker with his tiny eyes and fucked up grill. the thought of them together or of her with any students male or female having sex is really not a sexy thought. she is the type of person who would be into taping themselves having sex and watching it over and over. here is a really gross thought, maybe she hopped into bed with that chicken fucker joe sweeney! eeow!
for guys that post on here that she was hot with big tits and how they would have "done" her should remember that back then you were young and way horned up and she just had a sexuality about her but it wasnt hot or interesting in any way. she was gross and after reading all this shit about her apparently was a real fucking bitch to alot of peeps. if caroline wolf ever comes on this thing and reads this which by the way im sure she does....(narcissist!) i vote you dead!
x, jms 83'-85' RMA grad "
Oh snap. snap. snap.
THIS was so funny. I agree with your assesment of everything above. Especially the part about Caroline being the type of person who'd tape themselves having sex and watch it over and over...
-
how could noone know that she didn't.... I mean, there were 2 boys in my peer group that always stayed over... as well as all the other people that would always sneak out of the dorms... and do the things they would do. One thing i remember caroline saying is "it takes a liar to know a liar"... and she was the best at making everyone feel like they were lying, and when the truth be told... she had the biggest phasad going.
How nice it would have been to just get to RMA and be able to keep up the old habits that got you there in the first place.... How impressionable the minds of the youth really are.... How clean is everyone today..... How much better are our lives then they would have been?
*cough* Off to do another line... More to come *cough*
-
I'm redaing this wondering how the holy fricking shitoli she managed to get away with all that?
-
eeeeeeow. your kidding right?
-
maybe she hopped into bed with that chicken fucker joe sweeney! eeow!
On 2006-05-09 23:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"eeeeeeow. your kidding right? "
I must say, if a horse is fair game, and I know it WAS at some point, why not a chicken...
hello...DIVINE in Pink Flamingos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
chicken man
-
Going from explaining Caroline Jenny Wolfe to, finding out where she is/works to talking about her flappy pussy and a movie that includes a man with a salami tied to the end of his penis...is just beyond me, but in keeping with the irreverent I thought it might be a good time to begin:
CAROLINE's DISCLOSURE CIRCLE:
I'm caroline and I feel bad because I
___________________________ fill in the blank.
-
Hello all,
Just found this site/thread... I'm still grinning... Some of this is really entertaining! Wish I'd known then!!!
Man, Caroline Wolf - truly a tragic human being. At the time, I remember feeling so small (and yet so fat- despite the fact that she was much heavier than have been at my fattest) in her presence. She definitely had the ability to make me feel worthless, dirty (not in a good way) and stupid... Funny, until I read this post, I thought it was only me, I always felt so weak for allowing her to affect me that way. Looking back, I have to just laugh at her (sometimes I have to try pretty hard though). I remember so clearly this one rap shortly after I arrived when she was on my case about who knows what... Halfway through her berating she somehow got onto the subject of what music I liked 'before'... I said "Led Zeppelin". Whatever, who cared one way or another? Wow, she went OFF! Something to the effect of "OH! Really? Well, if your such a Led Zeppelin fan, what was the name of their band before it was L.Z.?" Okay, pause for backround: I was a sixteen year old girl, not particularly musicly inclined, I love (always have) music but, not interested in the lineage per se, or the fame of it... I just liked music. Obviously, therefore, I had no idea. So of course, she filled me in (The Yardbirds... I'll never forget that now :wink: ) and then spent the rest of the rap ramming it down my throat that I wasn't a true L.Z. fan if I didn't know their entire history... (oy!)
From the 16 years later (-ish) point of view - that's beyond absurd!! For so many reasons...
Hindsight... Anyone who engages in (and took/takes so much pleasure in) the berating, belittling (sp?) and abusing of children must feel so awful about themselves to need that pathetic 'lift', I can't even imagine. Still hard to 'pity' her but, I'd rather be me than her any day of the week... Truly, TRULY, a tragic, pathetic woman.
-'90 - (90 something...) ERH
-
CAROLINE's DISCLOSURE CIRCLE:
I'm caroline and I feel bad because I
___________________________ fill in the blank.
I am Caroline and I feel bad because...
all of these people have discovered that I am a lying piece of shit who liked to eat young girls' pussies, get kids high and scream at them so I didn't have to deal with myself. I feel bad because I was married to a creepy cocksucker and together we fucked up more kids than anyone else, and we probably fucked more kids than anyone else...
-
Uh, Caroline was wrong, by the way. The Yardbirds (i.e. the guys who did "For Your Love") only had Jimmy Page from Led Zep in there. (The other notable members were Jeff Beck and Eric Clapton.) The original name for Led Zeppelin was The New Yardbirds. So there.
-
you never cease to amaze me.
Ode to caroline:
the fat swine, you can probably find,
in an old navy windbreaker,
the 'ho is at at the five and dime.
but she's not gettin' mine, but because I
gotta take this time, to slaughter swine, sweet sweet caroline.
Verbally, bitch think you can still assault me?
and tell me in your odious words that I am faulty
you're paltry, a mall tease doing strip tease for her case of lice and fleas, give me your keys, just let me squeeze into your avanti, cause I'm gonna put this bitch out of her MISERY!
O'er Two year i had to listen to'er,
lightin' up kids with her poison lighter fluid,
she stupid,
she can't even cover up her lupis, her pubus, she's looser than twenty year old rubix cubus.
i swear I'm gonna empty her favorite tube of lube and fill that shit up with super glue. she better get the clue: i'm fine on my hunt of swine, and i'm gonna find you!
in finality: let me just say it makes sick and sway, i pray every day that i don't see your square ass come my way. Okay, i choose my life and words and my way, and i'm never gonna change, so anytime you wanna play, just "bring it on home to me baby", 'cause i'm here to stay!
I swear i just typed this out and i giggle, thinking of that little piggie, and the way she used to jiggle. sittin' on the edge of the chair meaner and thorny like the nettle, and launching in my general direction a gallon of spittle!
-
snap.
and nice ice. :silly:
-
Quote:
On 2006-04-18 03:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I know that Caroline was sleeping with students...I know this information because I was one of them, and I am a female. It was Niccole Bayley, she worked at RMA until about 1995. At that time she was married to a man named Bruce. Then she worked at a public school in Bonners but got caught sleeping with some of the female students, and now she is a lesbian muscian somewhere in southern Idaho. "
care to elaborate? I mean hell, you've gone this far, why not break out the juicy details?
You ARE "anonymous" after all aren't you?
I always wondered what happened in her house all those nights there were sleepovers there.
when Dan, Tom, Alexi (sexy lexy) MAN she had some knockers! Shannon, Molly, Athena, Christina, Brit would all sleep over. I knew they were all orgieing.
GIVE US THE GOODS, ANONYMOUS POSTER!!!
:o WOW, whoever I'm replying to...this is Cristina. I remember everyone you guys are referring to and it brings back such memories. I can't believe that I've waited this long to search for RMA/CEDU survivors. I can't believe that people actually remember this period of my life, a life I try to make believe didn't happen.
Who am I taking to??
-
Does anyone remember David...he ended up raping and killing a young girl in Oxnard.
-
When and who and please tell us more. That's horrible.
-
David was a very young thirteen when he came to RMA. From the beginning, you could tell him was sensitive. I suppose originally we became friends because we were both the youngest students at that time and we had very similar stories. The raps were the hardest on him and often times he would try to defends his friend in the hot seat only to get worst yelling at him. Soon after I left, he just gave up and ranaway. He evenutally got to go home but I think the damage was done. He and I would speak quite often and he just never felt a part of anything after RMA. He developed a couple of habits along the way to help numb himself, I suppose. After a while it became a little much for me to handle and we began to drift about. I can't recall how long along the incident with David happened but I do know that in the end he copped to it all...and so now he sits in jail alone again.
David was not a bad kid. Before RMA he never did any drugs or was violent...something up there made him change.
-
David was a very young thirteen when he came to RMA. From the beginning, you could tell him was sensitive. I suppose originally we became friends because we were both the youngest students at that time and we had very similar stories. The raps were the hardest on him and often times he would try to defends his friend in the hot seat only to get worst yelling at him. Soon after I left, he just gave up and ranaway. He evenutally got to go home but I think the damage was done. He and I would speak quite often and he just never felt a part of anything after RMA. He developed a couple of habits along the way to help numb himself, I suppose. After a while it became a little much for me to handle and we began to drift about. I can't recall how long along the incident with David happened but I do know that in the end he copped to it all...and so now he sits in jail alone again.
David was not a bad kid. Before RMA he never did any drugs or was violent...something up there made him change.
go to kalimanley.com
I couldn't find where CEDU/RMA was mentioned but if you knew him there, other people did too. I didn't know him, but feel it's a possibility that other people may want to comment about him or your view that RMA contributing to his really fucked up behavior in his early 20's.
-
::bump::
-
Think 1993 thru 1994. Caroline is still a respected member of the staff, but is generated more rumors than "advice" to the wayward student body.
She went wack job after Randy took off and eloped with the ex-student. Caroline was now getting her rocks off by having various member of the "pretty people" into her on campus apartments. I remember a new initiate to the clan, Matt from Philly, giving her the old "I'd fuck you" in his first rap with her. He added that if her dog looked like her "he'd fuck Winston". That must have turned her on because he was straight slamming her within weeks. He and the famed David Tadassi (and a few other whose names escape me) were given such wide access that they started bringing weed and booze on campus. It got broken up after the Gomez gang bang and the student store upside down window debacle.
Caroline faded away after that. Most of the other staff were embarassed by her becuase everything she did exposed the CEDU "culture" for the bullshit it was. If a famed graduate acted that way - woah- what the hell is going on.
And there was much lesbianism going on as well. I also have to agree that she wasn't really that "hot" - we were just way too isolated and the girls we saw on a daily basis were way too desexualized.
-
Think 1993 thru 1994. Caroline is still a respected member of the staff, but is generating more rumors than "advice" to the wayward student body.
She went wack job after Randy took off and eloped with the ex-student. Caroline was now getting her rocks off by having various member of the "pretty people" into her on campus apartments. I remember a new initiate to the clan, Matt from Philly, giving her the old "I'd fuck you" in his first rap with her. He added that if her dog looked like her "he'd fuck Winston". That must have turned her on because he was straight slamming her within weeks. He and the famed David Tadassi (and a few other whose names escape me) were given such wide access that they started bringing weed and booze on campus. It got broken up after the Gomez gang bang and the student store upside down window debacle.
Caroline faded away after that. Most of the other staff were embarassed by her becuase everything she did exposed the CEDU "culture" for the bullshit it was. If a famed graduate acted that way - woah- what the hell is going on.
And there was much lesbianism going on as well. I also have to agree that she wasn't really that "hot" - we were just way too isolated and the girls we saw on a daily basis were way too desexualized.
-
OK. Now we're talking. This is incredibly fascinating for students who graduated before 1992. Please provide as much detail as possible on the following: (you don't have to do it all at once):
1. Randy eloped with which ex-student? What year.
2. Did "Matt from Philly" graduate or did caroline leave 1st? The thought of him saying that to her brings a tear to my eye - that is awesome.
3. Gomez gang bang - don't be stingy with the details.
4. Student store upside down window debacle.
No need to describe lesbianism - I've got that covered. Awesome nonetheless.
-
i just found the forum and Caroline Wolf was the craziest meanest most fucked up retarded bitch in the world. I have nothing good to say about her or the fucked up shit that used to come out of her ugly face!
I truly hated her, she shouldn't have been working with children. Children! don't you remember some of the shit she used to say?
-
I remember her every word.
-
I really don't give a fuck what Caroline did to me, or any of the other staff, for that matter. I just never had the energy to hang onto that shit forever, so I went through my little process and let most of it go. What I *do* give a fuck about is the shit she did to friends of mine, and how she treated them. That is the stuff that still pisses me off.
-
Randy married a girl named Colleen about six months after her graduation. They got married in the summer of 94, and as far as I can find, theyre still together.
The Gomez story is actually the Gomes story. A girl wanted to hook up with this Matt from Philly, so she snuck into his dorm late one night and told him as much. Matt said he'd fuck her, if she also let the rest of the dorm have a turn. This dorm was full of Caroline's pets. They pulled a train on her using trash bag liners as primitive condoms. Afterwards, she was so exhausted, they put her in a wheelbarrow and wheeled her home.
Caroline and Matt lived together in Huntington Beach after they left. I was gone by then, so I dont remember if Matt graduated or the details of Carolines firing.
-
Randy married a girl named Colleen about six months after her graduation. They got married in the summer of 94, and as far as I can find, they're still together.
Yeah, they're together still, and have reproduced from what I know.
The Gomez story is actually the Gomes story. A girl wanted to hook up with this Matt from Philly, so she snuck into his dorm late one night and told him as much. Matt said he'd fuck her, if she also let the rest of the dorm have a turn. This dorm was full of Caroline's pets. They pulled a train on her using trash bag liners as primitive condoms. Afterwards, she was so exhausted, they put her in a wheelbarrow and wheeled her home.
Sooooooooo fucked up. That was shortly after I graduated but I heard all about it.
Caroline and Matt lived together in Huntington Beach after they left. I was gone by then, so I dont remember if Matt graduated or the details of Carolines firing.
I wasn't there at this point either, but I'm almost positive that Matt didn't graduate. And was Caroline fired? For some reason I thought that she slinked away on her own before she could be fired. If she was fired, and anyone on here remembers the details, I would LOVE to hear them.
I talked to Matt from Philly by default a few years ago when he was living in Seattle and hanging out with one of my little brothers from RMA. He had a daughter and he talked about walking her to school in the morning, and then switched gears and said he wanted to come down and see me, and I was like yeah, put Mattie (my little brother) back on the phone.
-
Thanks for the details. I always say this but as a 90 graduate hearing shit like that is mind blowing.
trash bag liners as primitive condoms?
Who would ever consider that? I think I'd go with a ziplock bag before a trash can liner. Running out of condoms - that's absurd!
-
trash bag liners as primitive condoms?
Who would ever consider that? I think I'd go with a ziplock bag before a trash can liner. Running out of condoms - that's absurd!
Yes, I must agree. Absolutely silly.
-
The train story is so deeply unsettling to me... that he would allow her to be used that way. It totally disgusts me. I know you might put it on her, but as a human being, how could he suggest that? I just couldn't imagine taking someone with piss poor self esteem and grinding it down more. Some might say well, maybe she enjoyed it, but I know of other girls with similar experiences, and all it did--all it did-- was make them feel dirty and ashamed.
I don't know him and I already hate him. God--I wish I never heard this story. What if this were his sister? Would he tell the guys to get in line then?
Pig.
-
The train story is so deeply unsettling to me... that he would allow her to be used that way. It totally disgusts me. I know you might put it on her, but as a human being, how could he suggest that? I just couldn't imagine taking someone with piss poor self esteem and grinding it down more. Some might say well, maybe she enjoyed it, but I know of other girls with similar experiences, and all it did--all it did-- was make them feel dirty and ashamed.
I don't know him and I already hate him. God--I wish I never heard this story. What if this were his sister? Would he tell the guys to get in line then?
Pig.
From what I recall of this story, Caroline put it all on her too. Cause she was probably already sleeping with matt. Put all the accountability and blame on her. She was such a hypocritical bitch.
-
that woman should be arrested. How did she get away with sleeping with students?
-
She walked around that place like she was the queen of the world. And I think no one knew about the bad behavior except those involved. When other staff and students started catching on is when things started crumbling for her. God I wish I'd been there to see that. And from what I've heard, living with Matt from Philly after RMA in Huntington Beach was no walk in the park, so maybe karma had already started catching up with her.
It just always seemed so odd to me, both she and Randy graduated from CEDU and then went directly to RMA to be staff. They had no concept of the real world, none whatsoever until the mid 90's when they both left. How fucking weird is that? It just boggles me. And I'm fairly convinced that Caroline was a narcissistic sociopath.
-
I still don't get why staff let student F*7ckers get away with it.Do you know if she worked with Jackie at New Horizons in Maine?
-
trash bag liners as primitive condoms?
Who would ever consider that? I think I'd go with a ziplock bag before a trash can liner. Running out of condoms - that's absurd!
Actually, that is a variation on a common teen practice from the 50s. A lot of kids back then used saran wrap. There is a reference to it in the play Grease, and there is a more well-disguised reference in the movie. (Since the censors wouldn't allow the play version to be in there and maintain a pg rating.) During the greased lightning skit, john travolta takes some unrolled saran wrap and shines his crotch with it.
So yeah, there is nothing new under the sun... or in your pants.
-
sorry about the double post everyone, it wouldn't let me delete.
-
I still don't get why staff let student F*7ckers get away with it.Do you know if she worked with Jackie at New Horizons in Maine?
Yeah, pretty sure she was working with her when that school started up.
-
I still don't get why staff let student F*7ckers get away with it.Do you know if she worked with Jackie at New Horizons in Maine?
Yeah, pretty sure she was working with her when that school started up.
I believe she also helped start Second Nature, or something like that. She had some level of involvement in it.
-
How the fuck does she continue to be hired after her actions at RMA. WTF would think she is safe for students?
-
How the fuck does she continue to be hired after her actions at RMA. WTF would think she is safe for students?
Lots of stupid people in the world. Or maybe, just maybe, safety wasn't one of their bigger priorities. I bet by then she would have probably worked for room and board, or have paid to be a part of it. Imagine being in that weird bubble for 20 years, and then having to find a place in the "real" world, especially after all the pain she inflicted on people and being an absolute cunt for so long and getting away with it (sorry for the language, I don't usually use that word, but I will when it fits). We thought it was hard trying to reacclimate after 2 and 1/2 years, imagine doing it after 20? Fuck.
-
yeah--it would be hard to re-acclimate. Still. I've got no patience for people like her... or any student becoming staff ready and willing to inflict further abuse while they screw students and call other girls sluts. ugh.
-
it just goes to show that,since the 1970's, CEDU has been making monsters of some, zombies of others, plenty of programmed robots and 'the rest of us'.
-
Oh I know. She gets no sympathy or even empathy from me. I was just putting it into perspective, mostly for myself. She sucks and deserves to be cast into the fires of hades. Is that harsh?
-
nope, doesn't sound harsh to me.
shan
-
Ah, someone with a better memory than I. Allison definately wasn't hispanic.
I think I can also offer some clarification on Matt from Philly. Matt from Philly was a tall, blonde thuggish irish kid that showed up in 93 or early 94. He is not to be confused with Matt Mikeljohn, who was a husky kid that had been there since 92 I believe. Matt M. was on Caroline's team as well, but had been on a weird deal where he was pulled, reenrolled and pulled again (maybe he was 18) all within a year or so. Matt from Philly knew how to get in Carolines pants from the second he layed eyes on her, and even though the kool-aid drinking masses couldn't understand why, we all knew they were doinking.
And yes, Caroline completely blamed Allison for the gang-bang. I mean sure, she made the mistake of entering the most testerone filled, who gives a shit dorm on campus, but to blame her was just fucked up. I will never forget rap call outs the day the story broke. Caroline and all the other staff humiliating Allison in front of the whole house. Nice, real nice. It's not like the guys didn't get some hell (glad bags? - hey, condoms were out of agreement...), but it was clear Caroline was jealous.
-
I have a vague recollection of a woman who came on as a low level counselor at RMA sometime between 93-94 who was like a less attractive, lesbian version of Caroline. She had brown hair, fashioned into a mullet, wore Caroline style bleached jeans tucked into tan boots.
From the little I recall, she immidietely starting hanging out with Caroline and her team. In retrospect I am sure she was another female who suprised Caroline with the ability to make her cum.
Just as an aside....
When you look back on these times, do you ever wonder why in the name of sanity did your parents trust your safety to any group like this. I know it was sold as a highly "theraupuetic(sp)" environment - but really - anytime you leave your kid alone with a group of adults you don't know - strange things can and do happen. That's just the sad reality. Makes you wonder don't it?
-
1. Condoms were out of agreement? That became an agreement after 1990?
2. I know realize how this happened. Once they converted to the system where you are with 1 'head counselor' for your entire stay Caroline knew she could control her kids.
3. Why didn't anyone indict Matt/Caroline? Or maybe write an anonymous dirt list (for matt/caroline0 and put it in the rap box? I would have.
-
I wish parents were more aware/mindful of the power differential between students and staff in programs. It's fundamentally dangerous. When staff members have so much power to control students, and students (some of whom may have learning disabilities, mental illnesses or history of trauma/loss) have so little power, there is an inherently high risk of abuse. Add to that the profound isolation of the facilities...a recipe for abuse, as many of you know all too well.
This should be brought to the attention of the GAO and Rep. Miller, if it has not been already, because it has bearing on the need for oversight of the schools. (I know not all of us have confidence in oversight, and most are worried that it will be insuffient or toothless). I'll include it in the letter I am writing to them. I urge each of you to write your own letter over the next few weeks as there is another Congressional hearing expected in January.
Related Links/Info
Congressman George Miller
1333 Willow Pass Road, Suite 203
Concord, CA 94520
(925) 602-1880
Fax: (925)674-0983
[email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected])
Video of the Oct. 10th, 2007 hearing before the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Education and Labor http://http://edlabor.house.gov/newsroom/multimedia.shtml
GAO report in PDF, entitled "Residential Treatment Programs: Concerns Regarding Abuse and Death in Certain Programs for Troubled Youth." http://http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08146t.pdf
Auntie Em
-
wow. is sheila the staffer you were talking about, INTERNET?
I'm glad Auntie Em posted that. it'll be helpful to refer people to.
-
Re the urgency of writing to Congress about abuse in programs, be aware that the programs and their supporters are organizing and mobilizing pro-program parents to contact Congress.
Don't miss this chance for your voice to be heard!
Auntie Em
-
wow. is sheila the staffer you were talking about, INTERNET?
I'm glad Auntie Em posted that. it'll be helpful to refer people to.
If you're talking about Sheila Clairemont, than no, she was there way before that.
-
Nope, I wasn't referring to Sheila. She was partial to bleached jeans and tan boots though.
I really doubt that Sheila would ever leave the comfort of her recliner, a carton of smokes and a case of Budweiser to bother with the crap that Caroline pulled.
I think Sheila still holds the title of Queen Alcoholic of Northern Idaho.
That is all.
-
e
I have a vague recollection of a woman who came on as a low level counselor at RMA sometime between 93-94 who was like a less attractive, lesbian version of Caroline. She had brown hair, fashioned into a mullet, wore Caroline style bleached jeans tucked into tan boots.
From the little I recall, she immidietely starting hanging out with Caroline and her team. In retrospect I am sure she was another female who suprised Caroline with the ability to make her cum.
Just as an aside....
When you look back on these times, do you ever wonder why in the name of sanity did your parents trust your safety to any group like this. I know it was sold as a highly "theraupuetic(sp)" environment - but really - anytime you leave your kid alone with a group of adults you don't know - strange things can and do happen. That's just the sad reality. Makes you wonder don't it?
I think you're referring to the Gigantress Katherine something-or-other. She did dress like that, and had a mop of fluffy brown hair. I could see how she came off as a lesbian, but she was actually having an inappropriate relationship with Charles E****. (Don't wanna call him out, I actually kinda liked the guy.)
-
Nope, it wasn't Katherine either. She was actually fairly nice and easy to get along with. Northern Idaho pretty much sucked for her because she was straight, single and had an ass the size of a Mack truck.
She was just looking for some male attention. She really liked one of my good friends there, but he never doinked her. She eventually left to see if she could salvage what was left of her 20s.
-
wow. is sheila the staffer you were talking about, INTERNET?
I'm glad Auntie Em posted that. it'll be helpful to refer people to.
If you mean sheila claremont, then no. She was indeed mulleted, but it was blonde, and she got there when I was still a student. Probably around 88 or 89.
-
I could see how she came off as a lesbian, but she was actually having an inappropriate relationship with Charles E****. (Don't wanna call him out, I actually kinda liked the guy.)
I know exactly who you're talking about, but I didn't know about the elicit affair. So are the days of RMA. Big ass soap opera.
-
Re the urgency of writing to Congress about abuse in programs, be aware that the programs and their supporters are organizing and mobilizing pro-program parents to contact Congress.
Don't miss this chance for your voice to be heard!
Auntie Em
Auntie Em,
How do you know that THEY are organizing pro-program parents to contact Congress. I mean, it doesn't surprise me, but how do you know this? Have they contacted your niece's parents?
-
I saw a couple postings after the October hearings from pro-program sources urging programs to organize parents ("your greatest asset") to write letters and tell their story. From there, Stina, I speculated.
Now I have to confess that I've looked for those dang postings and can't find them, grrrrr. I thought it was Lon "Woodenhead" but maybe it was the guy who offers the BBS software and service to programs, and I thought I'd also seen it on NATSAP, but I can't find it.
Sorry, I should get my research in line before shooting off my mouth, but I think it is reasonable to say that pro-program forces will want to put another spin on the GAO's story, and parents make good spokespersons.
Here's something from Struggling Spleens (spleen, as in archaic usage meaning "mingled ill will and bad temper"), framing this as an issue of "who should choose," government intrusion, and parental rights to control children:
http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/WhoShouldChoosePR_071209.shtml
(And a bonus article, not related, that will just make your skin crawl:)
http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/ClearingUpPerceptionsES_071212.shtml
If I can track down those source links, I will post them.
No, it had nothing to do with contact with my niece's parents. The only contact we have with them is the occasional "letter bomb" in which they carry on about what horrible people we are for "not caring about her emotional growth" and not showing any trust or respect for them, and not facing up to what a defective person my niece is.
Sometimes it's hard for us to know if maybe she's really better off anyplace but with her parents...but why o why a cult-based program?
Auntie Em
-
I saw a couple postings after the October hearings from pro-program sources urging programs to organize parents ("your greatest asset") to write letters and tell their story. From there, Stina, I speculated.
Now I have to confess that I've looked for those dang postings and can't find them, grrrrr. I thought it was Lon "Woodenhead" but maybe it was the guy who offers the BBS software and service to programs, and I thought I'd also seen it on NATSAP, but I can't find it.
That doesn't surprise me that they'd come troll the message board trying to drum up support. So lame.
Sorry, I should get my research in line before shooting off my mouth, but I think it is reasonable to say that pro-program forces will want to put another spin on the GAO's story, and parents make good spokespersons.
Em, you shoot off your mouth here any time you want to.
(And a bonus article, not related, that will just make your skin crawl:)
http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/ClearingUpPerceptionsES_071212.shtml
God, she makes it sound sane. It's so vanilla, and if I didn't know better it might sound like something reasonable came out of that lady's mouth. But of course she's an educational consultant so that's simple PR.
No, it had nothing to do with contact with my niece's parents. The only contact we have with them is the occasional "letter bomb" in which they carry on about what horrible people we are for "not caring about her emotional growth" and not showing any trust or respect for them, and not facing up to what a defective person my niece is.
Sometimes it's hard for us to know if maybe she's really better off anyplace but with her parents...but why o why a cult-based program?
Auntie Em
Yeah, i've been thinking that her parents don't sound like the most stable people (no offense) but it sucks that they're just blindly trusting the school. That's the thing that always got me, that parents just believe what comes out of the staff's mouth (people they do not know and have no logical reason to trust), not their own kid, who, though they may have been misbehaving prior to being there, is their KID, and who they've known for their entire lives.
-
Thanks for your kind words, Stina.
Yeah, i've been thinking that her parents don't sound like the most stable people (no offense) but it sucks that they're just blindly trusting the school. That's the thing that always got me, that parents just believe what comes out of the staff's mouth (people they do not know and have no logical reason to trust), not their own kid, who, though they may have been misbehaving prior to being there, is their KID, and who they've known for their entire lives.
No offense taken, I think they are unstable, too. Reality is liquid with them, and yes, I mean alcoholically liquid. Wish I could tell you the whole story, but I want to keep this anonymous. Suffice it to say that the young lady has good reasons for being pissed--pissed at her parents, pissed at the world.
The articles at the NATSAP site that are aimed at parents are quite illuminating regarding why the parents listen to the programs and not their child. In the pro-program info for parents there is repeated reinforcement of the the need to be "right and strong," and (of course) to be firm (=be a good parent) by ignoring the "lies and manipulations" of your child.
I read here somewhere an account by a former staff member. That person said that the staff prepared the parents to see their children for the first time after being enrolled, usually after several months. The staff would meet with the parents first, and walk them straight down a list of complaints and accusations they might hear from their child, and how all were lies and manipulations, and not to believe the child. Now my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that a significant percentage of parents pull their children from the program at this point. Would that be the parents who still have trust in their own child? And you can see how the programs would work hard to protect their cash flow at this juncture.
I think also that my niece's parents cast themselves as martyrs in all this.
"Poor us, look at how much we are spending--the sacrifice!"
"Poor us, everybody is against us, just as the program warned us they would be--oh, the ordeal of being righteous!"
"Poor us, look at what a perfect life we could have had if our daughter hadn't been so emotionally defective--she made our lives hell!"
"Poor us, her angry outbursts were so embarassing--we had to send her away...for her sake!"
I know I've said this before, but there are plenty of emotional problems to go around in that family. They are scapegoating my niece, and it is easier to cast her as The Problem than to deal with a complex set of admittedly difficult family issues.
Auntie Em
-
When I attended RMA until 1993, Caroline Wolf was an assclown of the highest order. I remember her most for yelling loud at students including weekend spade tournaments with students (Tom, Sally, Sam) in her apartment. She didn't do anything to impress me.
Mr. Seymour
[email protected]
-
When I attended RMA until 1993, Caroline Wolf was an assclown of the highest order. I remember her most for yelling loud at students including weekend spade tournaments with students (Tom, Sally, Sam) in her apartment. She didn't do anything to impress me.
Mr. Seymour
[email protected]
Amen, Mr. Seymour. Amen.
-
She favored a select few in my peergroup. I also think she was willing to look past the RMA policies. There were two students who admitted to sexual acts, and one was kicked out of RMA. She was a major player in that process. The fellow that left was Chris J.
-
She favored a select few in my peergroup. I also think she was willing to look past the RMA policies. There were two students who admitted to sexual acts, and one was kicked out of RMA. She was a major player in that process. The fellow that left was Chris J.
I remember Chris J. but do not remember him having sex with Caroline? Or do you mean sex with a student (if so I do remember that).
-
She favored a select few in my peergroup. I also think she was willing to look past the RMA policies. There were two students who admitted to sexual acts, and one was kicked out of RMA. She was a major player in that process. The fellow that left was Chris J.
I remember Chris J. but do not remember him having sex with Caroline? Or do you mean sex with a student (if so I do remember that).
I meant with anoter student.
-
When I attended RMA until 1993, Caroline Wolf was an assclown of the highest order. I remember her most for yelling loud at students including weekend spade tournaments with students (Tom, Sally, Sam) in her apartment. She didn't do anything to impress me.
Mr. Seymour
[email protected]
baby????
Baby Huey??
that you????
(quack quack!) ;D
-
If your ever driving through Sandpoint Idaho and need gas. Stop at the Shell station. You might see this person working behind the counter. Caroline the wolf now "gas station worker"!! ::OMG:: A little birdie let me know that sweet info. Serves that horrible witch right!!!! Karma will get you!!!
-
take a picture, please. pretty pretty please?
-
Make sure to get the rack in the photo.
-
If your ever driving through Sandpoint Idaho and need gas. Stop at the Shell station. You might see this person working behind the counter. Caroline the wolf now "gas station worker"!! ::OMG:: A little birdie let me know that sweet info. Serves that horrible witch right!!!! Karma will get you!!!
I remember sandpoint being small, but so small that there's only one shell station?
Sad thing is, she's probably making more money at that crap job than she did at RMA. I think the going rate for gas station attendants is around fifteen an hour.
-
My little birdie tells me that your little birdie has been spending too much time in the hemp fields.
Double check your sources.
If you are correct - get the photo (chest up please).
-
Okay, called my little birdie and asked for a pic. Will post when I get it. :rocker:
-
Okay, called my little birdie and asked for a pic. Will post when I get it. :rocker:
I give my word not to jerk off until then. :wall:
-
Excellent!
I thank you in advance with a bequest of 3 camels, the water rights to my goat farm and my eldest daughter.
-
Psh.. you know what? There's nothing wrong with working at a shell station, so I'm not sure why you guys are gloating so much. Like I said, it's good pay. It pays more than my piss ant animation internship did. (Twice the pay. I was at minimum wage.) And it certainly pays more than what she made at RMA, an equally shitty job, as far as I'm concerned, despite the fact that she got her jollies off of it.
My ass got laid off in december (merry fucking christmas), and I have no new employment prospects on the horizon, so seriously... I might be working in a gas station soon, myself. Granted, my art-fag heart will be breaking while I do it, because I won't be doing what I love, but at least I'll be able to make rent and not go into default on my student loans.
So, anyway... shell station. It's a fucking job. More admirable than being unemployed. At least you have a place to go to every day, and weekends (or whatever days you have off) actually mean something.
As far as I'm concerned, you could be homeless and collecting bottles and cans on the street, and that's still an honest day's work. (I might end up there in a few months, actually. If I don't end up dosing first.)
:dose: :dose: :dose: :dose: :dose: :dose: :dose: :dose: :dose:
(end whine)
I'm glad she's not working with kids anymore. She's a mean person, and that's what makes her Full of Fail, not whatever job she does or doesn't have.
And as for karma... this is sandpoint. Maybe if she was working night shift at a no-name station in visitation valley, san francisco, that could definitely be considered karma... I'd say that having to work someplace where you have to be on a constant state of high alert because of the possibility you might get a fat glock pointed at your piehole at any minute would be a more poetic parallel to what her victims had to go through. ::unhappy::
Regardless, I don't really care what she's doing. Just as long as she's not hurting kids any more, that's all that matters.
It just rubs me the wrong way when a particular line of work is used to denote failure or karma. It's work. Be happy you're working.
-
agreed.
by the way I miss your advice column from few years back.
-
agreed.
by the way I miss your advice column from few years back.
I had an advice column?
:ftard:
That's totally fucking hilarious that I don't remember doing that.
Anyway, thank you. I could sure use some sage advice myself, at the moment. (besides deciding on whether a gunshot to my head or carbon monoxide is the way to go) CM is more of a sure thing, but blowing your coconut off is more butch. :P
Will animate for food.
-
I think you should forget the gunshot and the CM and be a comedian instead.
-
Whether it's consider karma (probably not the best choice of words) or purley delight. To find out that, Caroline who used to brag what hot shit she is and how she has sooooooo many frends & connections in California. So where are her "good friends & connection" to help hook her up on the living & job market (transport / escort & California living)?
I remember that she would put herself & precious job/positon on a high pedestal, getting kids to think she is bad ass and if you cross her, she will make you pay. Sorry if anybody took it the wrong way about being a shitty gas attendent (she probaly does make more money than me too) I would get the same enjoyment seeing her working & a fast food place (which most the the managers make more money than me). I'ts not the job, it's the person doing the job, that makes me laugh!!
I truly think she is a horrible witch & that Sandpoint Idaho is the only place she can live, and still hold onto the idea she is hot shit & better than everybody else.
Having to be at RMA for 2 1/2 years is bad enough. When you add Caroline sick & twisted ideas to fuck with kids into the mix ,makes it 10 worse. It was her mission at RMA to fuck with kids to the point of 15 years later. Enjoying hearing & reading how bad she messed up her life. There is nothing good that could come from that lady.
To see her work at a gas station is priceless, just knowing she is not working with kids is great. If she is making great money, good for her it can go to all of her plastic surgeries or lawyer's fees. if she ever gets sued for fucking with kids!! I would much rather see her picking up bottle and cans. But I wouldn't be so lucky to she her do that. I don't think that people should profit or feal happiness off other people misery / situtation, but in Caroline's case. I do & it's great!!!
Gee, do you think that witch can still get under my skin?
Castle, sorry to hear about you getting laid off, it will turn around, hopefully soon.
-
So we do have photographic evidence of said employment of said ass clown in Sandpoint? Or no?
Godspeed - I want to see this.
I'd prefer to see her changing bed pans at a Siberian insane asylum.
-
Whether it's consider karma (probably not the best choice of words) or purley delight. To find out that, Caroline who used to brag what hot shit she is and how she has sooooooo many frends & connections in California. So where are her "good friends & connection" to help hook her up on the living & job market (transport / escort & California living)?
I remember that she would put herself & precious job/positon on a high pedestal, getting kids to think she is bad ass and if you cross her, she will make you pay. Sorry if anybody took it the wrong way about being a shitty gas attendent (she probaly does make more money than me too) I would get the same enjoyment seeing her working & a fast food place (which most the the managers make more money than me). I'ts not the job, it's the person doing the job, that makes me laugh!!
I truly think she is a horrible witch & that Sandpoint Idaho is the only place she can live, and still hold onto the idea she is hot shit & better than everybody else.
Having to be at RMA for 2 1/2 years is bad enough. When you add Caroline sick & twisted ideas to fuck with kids into the mix ,makes it 10 worse. It was her mission at RMA to fuck with kids to the point of 15 years later. Enjoying hearing & reading how bad she messed up her life. There is nothing good that could come from that lady.
To see her work at a gas station is priceless, just knowing she is not working with kids is great. If she is making great money, good for her it can go to all of her plastic surgeries or lawyer's fees. if she ever gets sued for fucking with kids!! I would much rather see her picking up bottle and cans. But I wouldn't be so lucky to she her do that. I don't think that people should profit or feal happiness off other people misery / situtation, but in Caroline's case. I do & it's great!!!
Gee, do you think that witch can still get under my skin?
Castle, sorry to hear about you getting laid off, it will turn around, hopefully soon.
I think maybe it's just that you and I kind of have different outlooks regarding caroline. You care, and I don't. All I care about is that she isn't working with kids.
I'm not that way with every staff, though. Others I do actually kind of have some curiosity as to what they are up to.
I will say, though, that if caroline knew the kind of energy and bile that is being directed towards her, my guess is she would probably laugh. That's how she is. (or was)
-
Castle, true, true. Not much could phase that harden witch. Now I lost those few minute on wasted energy on her. :rocker:
-
I seem to remember someone asking for a picture of Caroline Wolf. Here is one. Best, M
-
Caroline is one sick, scary fat bitch...I hope she reaps what she sows. She is a serial criminal child abuser who should be jailed and isolated with many others just like her, so she can experience a proxy of her own wrath and torment
-
WE KNOW ALL THESE BLOGS ARE YOU GIA, ALL OF THEM. THESE SLANDEROUS ACCUSATIONS ARE ILLEGAL. SLANDER IS AN UNTRUTHFUL ORAL OR WRITTEN STATEMENT ABOUT A PERSON THAT HARMS THE PERSON'S REPUTATION OR STANDING IN THE COMMUNITY. WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO TAKE LEGAL ACTION AGAINST YOU FOR YOUR UNTRUE CLAIMS. EVERYONE YOU HAVE SLANDERED HERE HAS THE RIGHT TO TAKE LEGAL ACTION AGAINST YOU. THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE YOU ARE SLANDERING ON A DAILY BASIS.
WE EXPECT YOU TO IMMEDIATELY CEASE SLANDERING.
-
I don't want to seem overly important in the whole Caroline debacle, but, as far as I know, I was the first one to publicly state that Caroline was fucking students. This got back to her, and I was placed on a full time. I spit soon after. Caroline and Matt were together for awhile after they left Idaho, but then Matt got arrested in WA, I believe. His mother would call me and try to get me to talk some sense to him. I hope that he's doing well now. He was a good guy.
-
I don't want to seem overly important in the whole Caroline debacle, but, as far as I know, I was the first one to publicly state that Caroline was fucking students. This got back to her, and I was placed on a full time. I spit soon after. Caroline and Matt were together for awhile after they left Idaho, but then Matt got arrested in WA, I believe. His mother would call me and try to get me to talk some sense to him. I hope that he's doing well now. He was a good guy.
But Caroline started out as a detainee. So none of this is really her fault?
-
I don't want to seem overly important in the whole Caroline debacle, but, as far as I know, I was the first one to publicly state that Caroline was fucking students. This got back to her, and I was placed on a full time. I spit soon after. Caroline and Matt were together for awhile after they left Idaho, but then Matt got arrested in WA, I believe. His mother would call me and try to get me to talk some sense to him. I hope that he's doing well now. He was a good guy.
But Caroline started out as a detainee. So none of this is really her fault?
Having at one point been victimized does not exonerate a person who chooses in adulthood to become a perpetrator.
-
I don't want to seem overly important in the whole Caroline debacle, but, as far as I know, I was the first one to publicly state that Caroline was fucking students. This got back to her, and I was placed on a full time. I spit soon after. Caroline and Matt were together for awhile after they left Idaho, but then Matt got arrested in WA, I believe. His mother would call me and try to get me to talk some sense to him. I hope that he's doing well now. He was a good guy.
But Caroline started out as a detainee. So none of this is really her fault?
Having at one point been victimized does not exonerate a person who chooses in adulthood to become a perpetrator.
From what I recall, statistically speaking, most victims of childhood/adolescent sexual abuse do not grow up to become perpetrators.
To continue the cycle seems to entail some other inherent or learned trait.
-
I don't want to seem overly important in the whole Caroline debacle, but, as far as I know, I was the first one to publicly state that Caroline was fucking students. This got back to her, and I was placed on a full time. I spit soon after. Caroline and Matt were together for awhile after they left Idaho, but then Matt got arrested in WA, I believe. His mother would call me and try to get me to talk some sense to him. I hope that he's doing well now. He was a good guy.
But Caroline started out as a detainee. So none of this is really her fault?
Having at one point been victimized does not exonerate a person who chooses in adulthood to become a perpetrator.
From what I recall, statistically speaking, most victims of childhood/adolescent sexual abuse do not grow up to become perpetrators.
To continue the cycle seems to entail some other inherent or learned trait.
I feel she is not responsible for her actions. I consider the torture of CEDU different from "normal" abuse. "Normal" abuse doesn't involve completely isolating a teen for many years and relentlessly, systematicly destroying thier brains through sophisticated and deliberate violations and tactics; and "brainwashing" them to torture others.
The staff that thier volentarily, Mel Wassermen, Steve Laird, Rudy Bentz, they're a different story.
-
I don't want to seem overly important in the whole Caroline debacle, but, as far as I know, I was the first one to publicly state that Caroline was fucking students. This got back to her, and I was placed on a full time. I spit soon after. Caroline and Matt were together for awhile after they left Idaho, but then Matt got arrested in WA, I believe. His mother would call me and try to get me to talk some sense to him. I hope that he's doing well now. He was a good guy.
But Caroline started out as a detainee. So none of this is really her fault?
Having at one point been victimized does not exonerate a person who chooses in adulthood to become a perpetrator.
From what I recall, statistically speaking, most victims of childhood/adolescent sexual abuse do not grow up to become perpetrators.
To continue the cycle seems to entail some other inherent or learned trait.
I feel she is not responsible for her actions. I consider the torture of CEDU different from "normal" abuse. "Normal" abuse doesn't involve completely isolating a teen for many years and relentlessly, systematicly destroying thier brains through sophisticated and deliberate violations and tactics; and "brainwashing" them to torture others.
The staff that thier volentarily, Mel Wassermen, Steve Laird, Rudy Bentz, they're a different story.
Lol. NO. It sure as hell sucks, and life isn't fair, but whether or not someone was abused in program doesn't give them a license to never grow up or a free meal ticket to prey on others. It might help explain why someone is so fucked up, and you might feel great sympathy for them because of that, but it doesn't excuse them from the consequences of their actions.
To my mind, despite the continuum that exists, there is still a distinct delineation that occurs when you cross the line from being a minor, when someone else is ultimately responsible for what happens to you, to becoming an adult, when you are responsible for what happens to minors in your care.
There is also another delineation, IMO, that occurs in programs and other organizations per se, between regular staff and the inner core, the keepers of the flame. As they say, "absolute power corrupts absolutely."
All that said, in practice all is not quite so black and white. There are mitigating factors to be sure, which gray the waters of blame (such as you cite re. Caroline). Some times those can be quite extreme. For me, at least, whether or not someone cares about what they did also goes a long way.
-
No one has “licenses" to do anything and "consequences" are a different subject.
The line between minor and adult is a legal, not a corporeal delineation. One is not without personal volition at 17 years old, and then at 18 become a conscious being for the first time. How "responsible" someone is for their behavior depends on many factors, age is just one small component. Mel Wassermen induced mental illness in people he held prisoner, and created an over-arching, sometimes inescapable environment which trapped them, for further exploitation. People caught in that death trap have diminished responsibility for their actions, whether they commit suicide, kill their parents, shove a snake in someone's mailbox, or stay on as CEDU slaves to continue laboring for their masters.
-
No one has “licenses" to do anything and "consequences" are a different subject.
The line between minor and adult is a legal, not a corporeal delineation. One is not without personal volition at 17 years old, and then at 18 become a conscious being for the first time. How "responsible" someone is for their behavior depends on many factors, age is just one small component. Mel Wassermen induced mental illness in people he held prisoner, and created an over-arching, sometimes inescapable environment which trapped them, for further exploitation. People caught in that death trap have diminished responsibility for their actions, whether they commit suicide, kill their parents, shove a snake in someone's mailbox, or stay on as CEDU slaves to continue laboring for their masters.
It sounds like you are trying to rationalize something that happened to you or that YOU did? Are you looking for "diminished responsibility" for something YOU did?
-
If you are an adult, and possess at least SOME degree of lucidity and cognitive thought, you are responsible for your actions, no matter how fucked up your history, or your brain.
Caroline's past doesn't excuse her from shit, especially since the majority of peeps who left that place did NOT become sociopaths. Rather, it offers context. She is the poster child for the worst-case scenario.
-
I feel she is not responsible for her actions. I consider the torture of CEDU different from "normal" abuse. "Normal" abuse doesn't involve completely isolating a teen for many years and relentlessly, systematicly destroying thier brains through sophisticated and deliberate violations and tactics; and "brainwashing" them to torture others.
Mel Wassermen induced mental illness in people he held prisoner, and created an over-arching, sometimes inescapable environment which trapped them, for further exploitation. People caught in that death trap have diminished responsibility for their actions, whether they commit suicide, kill their parents, shove a snake in someone's mailbox, or stay on as CEDU slaves to continue laboring for their masters.
'diminished responsibility' is reserved for people who have diminished brain function, not for amoral predatory cunts like Caroline.
-
No one has “licenses" to do anything and "consequences" are a different subject.
The line between minor and adult is a legal, not a corporeal delineation. One is not without personal volition at 17 years old, and then at 18 become a conscious being for the first time. How "responsible" someone is for their behavior depends on many factors, age is just one small component. Mel Wassermen induced mental illness in people he held prisoner, and created an over-arching, sometimes inescapable environment which trapped them, for further exploitation. People caught in that death trap have diminished responsibility for their actions, whether they commit suicide, kill their parents, shove a snake in someone's mailbox, or stay on as CEDU slaves to continue laboring for their masters.
Ok. I wasn't going to respond but now I feel I must and point out that I find personal attacks offensive, given the forum.
"Diminished responsibility" applies to people with mental illness, and to people trapped in extreme life situations who do not have equitable choices to the standard group.That applies to prisoners who end up on staff.
I reserve the same empathy for that kid from CEDU who raped and murdered someone, that other kid from straight who murdered someone. I also apply it to the kids who were abusive while in program (almost all of them.)
I never abused anyone while imprisoned (too meek)…Technically all of you had the choice to resist, or to not take part in abuse. NONE (or few) of you took it. Do you feel you have complete responsibility for what you did? Some repsonsibilty? No responsibility? If you are wise, you see you actions existed in a spectrum of personal responsibility that will vary from you to another. And you will allot that same understanding to people besides yourself.
-
No one has “licenses" to do anything and "consequences" are a different subject.
The line between minor and adult is a legal, not a corporeal delineation. One is not without personal volition at 17 years old, and then at 18 become a conscious being for the first time. How "responsible" someone is for their behavior depends on many factors, age is just one small component. Mel Wassermen induced mental illness in people he held prisoner, and created an over-arching, sometimes inescapable environment which trapped them, for further exploitation. People caught in that death trap have diminished responsibility for their actions, whether they commit suicide, kill their parents, shove a snake in someone's mailbox, or stay on as CEDU slaves to continue laboring for their masters.
Ok. I wasn't going to respond but now I feel I must and point out that I find personal attacks offensive, given the forum.
"Diminished responsibility" applies to people with mental illness, and to people trapped in extreme life situations who do not have equitable choices to the standard group.That applies to prisoners who end up on staff.
I reserve the same empathy for that kid from CEDU who raped and murdered someone, that other kid from straight who murdered someone. I also apply it to the kids who were abusive while in program (almost all of them.)
I never abused anyone while imprisoned (too meek)…Technically all of you had the choice to resist, or to not take part in abuse. NONE (or few) of you took it. Do you feel you have complete responsibility for what you did? Some repsonsibilty? No responsibility? If you are wise, you see you actions existed in a spectrum of personal responsibility that will vary from you to another. And you will allot that same understanding to people besides yourself.
I can't see where anyone personally attacked you. But it looks like you think everyone does.
"Almost all" the kids in your program were abusive? "NONE (or few)" of them chose "to resist, or to not take part in abuse?" What CEDU program did you go to?
-
I can't see where anyone personally attacked you. But it looks like you think everyone does.
It sounds like you are trying to rationalize something that happened to you or that YOU did? Are you looking for "diminished responsibility" for something YOU did?
Suggesting I think this woman had diminished responsibility to rationalize my evil deeds is an ad hominem attack, purely. :soapbox:
I was at what is thought to be a CEDU spin off and my family member was at a CEDU other than RMA( I am being purposely vague)
Did the detainees at RMA not abuse each other, and was detainee on detainee abuse not the essence of the system?
They did, and it was in ours. Peer on peer "crime," or as they refer to it “positive peer culture,” is how thought reform is conducted.
-
I can't see where anyone personally attacked you. But it looks like you think everyone does.
It sounds like you are trying to rationalize something that happened to you or that YOU did? Are you looking for "diminished responsibility" for something YOU did?
Suggesting I think this woman had diminished responsibility to rationalize my evil deeds is an ad hominem attack, purely. :soapbox:
oh whoa you really need to take a better look i see a question not a ad hominem attack. either answer or NOT or move on whatever. calling everything by its most EXTREME interprtation makes you look like seriouslyy in need of some help
-
Much depends on your perspective and the way you deal with it. Yes, I knew people who went there, good friends, who could not deal when they left and got even more screwed up. I also know a lot of very successful people. ....I doubt my opinion is THAT far removed from TAC's - but at least we can be civil on the differences.
According to you-- a sniveling, trolling moron-- everything is subjective, therefore am I not just as civil as TAC, you failure at life. Perhaps your perspective is just a different than mine, scum-bag.
Or, perhaps reality is not as subjective as you suggest?
see now ^^^^^THIS from another thread is ex of a adhominem attack maybe you know that already
-
I think the point of contention in this here thread, it seems, was if students who actively participated in the rat squad should be considered just as accountable as people who were staff.
My vote is no... (just a wild guess there. :P) Although I fully admit that I couldnt stand the whole student gestapo bullshit, but I DID feel pushed to participate, as not being one of those folks garnered a lot of shame and disrespect from everyone else, and I got nailed for it in raps constantly. My ego just wasnt strong enough to bear that scrutiny without at least trying to go through the motions a little bit. If yours was, more power to you. Wish I was you.
Being part of the authority machine and policing other students was part of the coercion crap. We didnt consent to be there, but the staff chose to be staff. They applied for the fucking job, and could have left at any time, as opposed to us. I dont give a flying fuck, at that point, if they used to be students, because they CHOSE to come back, and it's no fucking accident that some of the most brutal asshounds there were ex-students.
So... context should always be acknowledged, but that doesnt divorce anyone from their responsibility for being a sackwad.
-
No one has “licenses" to do anything and "consequences" are a different subject.
The line between minor and adult is a legal, not a corporeal delineation. One is not without personal volition at 17 years old, and then at 18 become a conscious being for the first time. How "responsible" someone is for their behavior depends on many factors, age is just one small component. Mel Wassermen induced mental illness in people he held prisoner, and created an over-arching, sometimes inescapable environment which trapped them, for further exploitation. People caught in that death trap have diminished responsibility for their actions, whether they commit suicide, kill their parents, shove a snake in someone's mailbox, or stay on as CEDU slaves to continue laboring for their masters.
It sounds like you are trying to rationalize something that happened to you or that YOU did? Are you looking for "diminished responsibility" for something YOU did?
this is starting to get interesting now. :nods: I'm glad I revisitied.
-
I can't see where anyone personally attacked you. But it looks like you think everyone does.
It sounds like you are trying to rationalize something that happened to you or that YOU did? Are you looking for "diminished responsibility" for something YOU did?
Suggesting I think this woman had diminished responsibility to rationalize my evil deeds is an ad hominem attack, purely. :soapbox:
oh whoa you really need to take a better look i see a question not a ad hominem attack. either answer or NOT or move on whatever. calling everything by its most EXTREME interprtation makes you look like seriouslyy in need of some help
Thank you, cretin, for your insight into how my “interprtation” “makes me look” bad on an internet message board. Valuable contribution.
-
am I the only one who is getting kind of embarrassed about the fact that a thread about caroline has stretched for 13 pages?
not knocking anyone here... ive been participating, too. I just dont think the bitch deserves this kind of attention.
and yes, I addededed to the thread by posting this.. oops.
-
whatevs yo
she was messed up and treated people wrong she felt wronged by..
she oozed sexuality.. she came into raps in lingere.. she fucked students..
it's something that's remembered.. and something to bitch/gabber about..
who cares.. shehas her place.. so we talk about it here and there.
i just check these forums maybe 3 times a year and see everyone else balbbing about it so i add my 2 cents here and there.
she should be flattered.
-
All I have to say is WOW!
I was at RMA in the late 90's and did not know Caroline...she sounds like a much worse lesbo version of Sheila Claremont who was the asshole staff member there during my stay..
I wonder if my mother would have sent me there having known that staff members abused kids, drank w/ them etc. Maybe so..
I am wondering if Nicole Bayley and Nicole Rowell are one and the same?? I know Nicole (who was a team leader when I was there) was a former student and was married to a former student..Anyone know??
I don't remeber ever hearing stories about Caroline when I was there, but some of the names sound familiar (of course Mel Wasserman, Steve Rookey) And were the other Earle mentioned (I believe Dan & Carmen??) related to Tim Earle? Tim was a team leader and I believe he grew up in the CEDU system...so maybe the same family..???
I am sad to hear about the abuse some (or most) of you endured at the hands of this Caroline person (orgies w/ students, chicks going down on her, calling girls cum burping whores...) Some seriously sick shit...What a fucking pig!
-
I think the point of contention in this here thread, it seems, was if students who actively participated in the rat squad should be considered just as accountable as people who were staff.
My vote is no... (just a wild guess there. :P) Although I fully admit that I couldnt stand the whole student gestapo bullshit, but I DID feel pushed to participate, as not being one of those folks garnered a lot of shame and disrespect from everyone else, and I got nailed for it in raps constantly. My ego just wasnt strong enough to bear that scrutiny without at least trying to go through the motions a little bit. If yours was, more power to you. Wish I was you.
Being part of the authority machine and policing other students was part of the coercion crap. We didnt consent to be there, but the staff chose to be staff. They applied for the fucking job, and could have left at any time, as opposed to us. I dont give a flying fuck, at that point, if they used to be students, because they CHOSE to come back, and it's no fucking accident that some of the most brutal asshounds there were ex-students.
So... context should always be acknowledged, but that doesnt divorce anyone from their responsibility for being a sackwad.
When I was at RMA, two staff members actually had a "split contract". It left me wondering why, if they applied for the job and were free to leave, they felt a need to team up to escape? In a normal work environment, you would just say a couple of staff considered quitting their job. But CEDU/RMA were a different breed. That staff didn't feel comfortable just leaving, freely, is odd. I think in another thread somewhere, people pointed out that Mel would make it hard for them to leave, retaliate on them. This was a cult after all.
I remember Brett and Lisa Carey arriving in 1984 and appearing to be the most calm, rational, happy people there. But that soon changed. I think you could make the argument that staff could get affected by the cult stuff too. I think many brought in their own baggage however. Caroline Wolfe, Randy Eide, Russ Decker. These were people with bullying instincts before becoming staff. The fact all three were former students, and clearly anyone who had been staff around these three when they were students had to know they were bullying types, who got off on power, yet they were hired to become staff. Probably for those very reasons. Yet they could take a Brett and Lisa Carey and turn them in to dominating, criminal minded people too. They couldn't turn everyone in to zombies, but they seemed to have had a system that worked a lot of the time. But you could also argue the fact people are often fake and don't show their darker sides too often. So perhaps Brett and Lisa, Richard Armstrong, Bruce Wilson...These people may have had different traits lurking beneath the surface. When I arrived at RMA, Richard "Rowdy" Armstrong seemed friendly. He laughed a lot, got along well. By the time I was there six months, he had probably been there about ten to twelve months. And then that "other" side of him started to show. I think he saw that he could act the way he really was and it was acceptable there. Even encouraged. In a job interview, you don't act like a domineering jerk. But once you get the job, once you see how the system works, people often change to old habits.
So I guess I am saying that CEDU/RMA provided a place where people were encouraged to be abusive. And some staff who were hired saw this and left, and some found a home they could really get in to. No restraints. So you could have a cook like Steve Rookie, or a handyman like Richard Armstrong apply for a job that they thought was normal, and then find themselves drinking the Kool Aid, seeing the power, and letting out their own hidden darker sides and changing in to a different person than who they were at the start. And that may have been intentional, actually desired by Mel Wasserman and Co. For former students, CEDU/RMA recruited those whom they knew would have no problem going along with the system. But for staff they hired, they probably preyed upon weak people, knowing they could potentially mold them in to the slave masters they were really looking for. Turning people who were capable of being kind, in to people who actually preferred not to be.
In the CEDU Documentary, when Liam interviews the former staff member named Dennis, Dennis is clearly mentioning how when they try and hire people, they have a questionaire which things like, "How do you feel about corporal punishment in a school setting?" Answers would be very revealing, enabling them to weed out those who were too kind and with too strong of personality to dominate and control. Instead looking for those who might admit to pulling the wings off of butterflies as children. Those whose answers revealed traits they wanted. Something to suggest they would probably be willing to go along with abuse and not report it.
My comment about Caroline Wolfe specifically. CEDU and RMA didn't work. They didn't fix people. Bullies like Caroline Wolfe were bullies before attending the program as students. CEDU didn't make Caroline a bully, she chose that on her own and was allowed to become staff because they knew she would not need a leash. They could set her loose, feed her power and she would do the rest all on her own. As above, no restraints. Caroline was a sex addict, prostitute, whatever, before going to CEDU. The program there didn't fix her of that either. They knew she was a young, blond, fairly attractive female who was still a sex addict when they promoted her from student to staff, they knew she was a bullying type. They knew what she was capable of, what she would do with her power. But that was who she had been before going to CEDU. Caroline didn't become a staff by chance. They wanted her because they knew she was a weak person who would produce the results they wanted. And boy did she deliver. Just as Russ Decker and Randy Eide delivered.
-
So, what has happened to this cunt anyways? Seriously, where did she go after Cedu closed?
I saw a short video of her. Jesus, what a phoney!
-
Brett and Lisa Carey got sucked in because they were your average conformists: well meaning folks who don't really understand that sometimes it's important to go against the grain. I doubt they would even know how, or know when it would be appropriate to do so. I don't really remember Lisa's history, but Brett was your average Pink: A Preppy guy who was in a fraternity, probably would have become an investment banker if he hadnt come to work on the duck farm. Maybe something more crunchy, (hippified) I dunno.
They were both totally unremarkable individuals... but if you lived next door to them, you'd have them over for barbeques, because they seem nice enough, just not interesting enough to become close friends.
-
Brett and Lisa Carey got sucked in because they were your average conformists: well meaning folks who don't really understand that sometimes it's important to go against the grain.
Yeah I can understand that one, it takes a real hard ass to tell a program to shove it up their ass. Sadly, for 4 or so years, I wasn't one of those hard asses.
-
I agree with you Castle. Good description of Brett and Lisa. Not just conformists but the kind of people who probably would have grown up to be the true image of politically correct. But they were a little off to begin with. When I first met them, I remember Brett mentioning he had something to do with Up With People. You can Wiki them if you've never heard of them. Maybe Up With People isn't a cult, but it is a little unusual. And Brett and Lisa seemed prone to joining such a program. Just looking for some place to fit in, join, associate with, be a part of. Not out blazing their own trails, but followers looking for leaders to follow. It would not surprise me in the least to find out Mel Wasserman attended an Up With People event and met Brett and Lisa there. Mel out looking for new, weak-minded minions, Brett and Lisa wanting nothing more than to become minions.
But as you said, they'd be friendly neighbors, people you'd invite to a Bar-B-Q. But you know they'd volunteer to bring several dishes, all of which would be pleasantly happy dishes, probably bland because they'd have to contain all the "latest fad" purely organic, non-fat, non-anything ingredients. But you'd smile politely and thank them for being so thoughtful. People would pick at their dish but not really want any. And if you hadn't been neighbors with them, a day after the party you'd forget they ever existed they would have been so boring.
They wouldn't be the ones to form a Christmas Caroling group to roam the neighborhood, but they would certainly be the first to volunteer to join, volunteering to knock on doors and get others to go along. Just to be a part of it. Not thinking about it. Just wanting to be a part. And that's why they were able to fit in at RMA/CEDU. Two people who would never look past the surface of anything to see what was lying underneath, not questioning anything, never seeing or noticing anything out of the ordinary.
-
Mpst regular good ordinary people adapt to the culture of the workplace they are at even when they sometimes don't like it. I know I do. In a relatively normal workplace it is a sensible and tactful way of not killing your career. There is not a moral issue with it. So it is not surprising that there would be some decent people that brought into some of the most crazy and fucked up ideas on how best to "help" these kids, particularly when everyone around them appeared to see it as normal. Im sure there were some psychos that just found their nieche and I dont know if Caroline Wolf was one of those or if she was just a damaged little girl who was made worse by their therapy. In part i pity her but she sure seemed to mess up a lot of kids.
The other thing that strikes me about so many programs is they are so far away & most couples were there as a pair. So other people come home from their office job or whatever debrief about it to their friends and partners and if there is something odd may hear someone tell them it is not kosher. If on a day to day basis the only feed back you get is that you are saving lives and the only people you ever discuss your work with are colleagues it can be really easy to just go with the flow and be swept up in it. Look at Zimbaros work on the psychology of good and evil
-
Interesting points. When I was there, I didn't get the impression that the majority of the staff spent any time with anyone other than those working at the school. I am sure some of the townsfolk who came to work there had local ties and relationships, but those who came from elsewhere seemed to spend the bulk of their time on campus, often on their days off. I am sure that helped to reinforce the concept that they were all just helping the kids as one big happy family. No negative feedback whatsoever.
-
Or any feedback even vaguely questioning the program, like i come home and describe a typical day to my partner who does not work in the corporate sector and will hear him say he couldn't stand the conformist culture of it all or sometimes i will tease him about his medico colleagues being like an arrogant cult. Both of us recognise a certain level of truth in what the other is saying even if it is not so bad for either of us to chuck in our jobs.
The other thing that strikes me is that so many program staff that are not old scholars of the school are straight from college. Everyone knows that as much as I hate to use these words the mid 20s is a time of emotional and professional growth. For a lot of middle class kids it is the first time that they are exposed to people that think differently to them or that some of their ideals are challenged in a real world sense. A young teacher or psychologist for instance may discover some of the methods the really beleived in are just not practical in a real world setting. Or they are exposed to a mix of older more experienced and potentially jaded colleagues and equally green contemporaries as well as the jerky boss versus the kick ass mentor. All of this shapes professional development and personal growth naturally. But when everyone shares the same view and tells you that outsiders just dont get it and the process of this happening is slow and steady, it can mean adopting some prettty crazy world views without really knowing it is happening.
-
I totally agree 2 Cents. It's like most people who grow up living in the same town, hanging out with the same friends, seeing the same people over and over again for 18 years. Your view of the world is based on the input of a very small group of people. In fact outsiders are often...I don't know if you would say feared, but often ridiculed just for being different, like a natural instinct. You live in a very closed off world. Then as you say, you perhaps go off to college, maybe in a different state, or just not where all your friends go, perhaps not around your family all the time, and suddenly you have to "fit in" again. And in doing so you start to listen to other peoples experiences, their view points and you finally have to make decision on your own about what to believe, what to accept. No longer do you have all your friends around to help guide you, so you start to listen and learn and understand that your limited view of the world is not all there is.
And I agree about the 20's. You might graduate high school and go off to college at 18, but it takes some time to let down your guard, be able to hear other people and stop thinking you already know it all, that you're Superman. And this process speeds up the farther away from home you are, the farther from your friends and family you are.
If you went to work for IBM in the 80's, or the FBI, you'd have to accept their culture to some degree. At least on the outside, you'd have to get used to dressing like them, talking like them, being like them, or you wouldn't fit in and be accepted. IBM and the FBI are bit like cults in a way. I think people will often say or do things they wouldn't normally say or do to get hired at a job. And I highly doubt RMA or CEDU gave any more full and complete of a picture of what they did to new hires than they did to our parents before we arrived there. And then you take in to account that some of these newly hired staff arrived from out of state, you could get to wonder if they'd be willing to just quit immediately after a week or two? Faced with the idea of moving again, which is costly, finding a new job again, which takes time?
Maybe they were eager for work, not questioning a lot during the interview assuming, and probably with good reason, that this was a normal work place dedicated to helping kids (Because if it was abusive yet had been around for decades wouldn't someone have shut them down?) that has been around for decades...So it must be a worthwhile job. And with CEDU and RMA not telling them the whole story before they were hired, many probably just took the job figuring it was going to be a great work experience and nothing more. Afterward, who knows? A lot of people hate their job but don't quit. I had a brother in law who worked for Safeway while going to college. Got his Masters, married my sister. My sister got pregnant soon after so he needed his medical insurane from Safeway so that put the job change on hold. My niece got very sick after her birth and he stayed on with Safeway because his medical insurance covered everything. Then a year later my sister got injured and again he had to stick around because a new job might not provide the same coverage. Then came my nephew. And then my sister needed a very expensive surgery. So despite his desire to leave, circumstances kept coming up where he didn't. Changing jobs isn't always a simple thing. And as I mentioned in a previous post, I heard that the CEDU schools had a tendency to let you know they'd make your life impossible if you left. Not sure how true that is, but I am sure there are many reasons why various staff, who might have been normal people like Brett and Lisa Carey, stayed on despite what was happening around them.
Nils Tonsman (I think that was the name of the German teacher RMA hired in 1985) was from Germany. Imagine traveling all that way for a job to teach German, and then finding out what you had gotten in to. Leaving would be a tough choice. Your options limited. A secure job versus insecurity and unemployment. His green card might have depended on his staying employed.
And Dr. Nikki Bush from ASTART, when interviewed in Liam's CEDU Documentary, specifically mentions a staff member coming up to her before she had even fully unpacked her car, telling her the place was crazy, she wouldn't like it... So despite this, Dr. Bush stayed on a bit longer to see what was up, and the other staff member knowing what was true, was still there. However, that staff member had to know that the grapevine at CEDU/RMA and the backstabbing and desire to look good could easily have caused this side conversation with Nikki Bush to eventually come out. That she had warned a new staff arriving? Full time for a student. Was that staff member strong for staying, strong for warning others? Or stupid to stay?
Many students bought in to the program as well. Surrounded by so many people either looking good and faking it or truly drunk on Kool Aid, there was no way of knowing which, but possibly a tendency to fit in and accept it all or fake it yourself. Staff too had to have experienced this same thing. I am sure most who arrived who were not former students would have to have thought what they were seeing and witnessing was very strange. But went along with it, hoping to be enlightened as to why this was somehow good and not bad? I mean, these people convinced our parents, played our parents off on us, manipulated all communication, controlled everything they possibly could... I think they went out of their way to screen new hires to find the weakest willed, yet those capable of abuse or at least tolerating it, to come work for them. They created...or rather stole their system, and so they had a good idea of how to use it to get what they wanted. And it worked. I think students and staff and parents were all prone to accept it.
Sorry I went off on a tangent there. Your post above wasn't entirely about what I just commented on.
-
No I get it. It turns out that an old friend of mine did about 3 months on staff at a brat camp (he posted his story in the bratcamp thread) On day 1 he felt like this was not what he imagined but did not want to seem like a quitter. He also was not from the US so wondered if it was a cultural difference ext. There ended up being about 10 excuses he made to himself for staying even though he did not like the program at all and thought it was actually damaging to the kids. It wasnt until a kid fainted and was not immediately given medical attention that he decided that he thought the place was crazy and that by working there he was a part of the abuse of the kids.
I can definitely see how the physical isolation and sheer start up costs would deter a young grad from quitting. Nobody wants to go home at christmas feeling like they could not cut it in the post collegiate world.
-
No I get it. It turns out that an old friend of mine did about 3 months on staff at a brat camp (he posted his story in the bratcamp thread) On day 1 he felt like this was not what he imagined but did not want to seem like a quitter. He also was not from the US so wondered if it was a cultural difference ext. There ended up being about 10 excuses he made to himself for staying even though he did not like the program at all and thought it was actually damaging to the kids. It wasnt until a kid fainted and was not immediately given medical attention that he decided that he thought the place was crazy and that by working there he was a part of the abuse of the kids.
I can definitely see how the physical isolation and sheer start up costs would deter a young grad from quitting. Nobody wants to go home at christmas feeling like they could not cut it in the post collegiate world.
Lol, I know this poster. Nice to see you around. Don't be a stranger.
-
I will attest that the staff when i was there would talk in raps about their personal lives including friendships with people outside the school. They would say they had to be on bans with some friends who weren't part of the program. I remember brett and carey doing the same things with people who were making some negative decisions that they couldn't be around and blah blah.
the place was a cult. the staff who worked there always fell into line, because they were there all the time and didn't have time to rampage with logger drunks on the outside. their livlihoods still depended on making themselves look good to the school. Look at the staff who lived on campus for more clues about how far it went to their heads...they believed in mels "vision". or they're interepretation. everyone played their parts. the staff I mean. the kids you could count on to fall into line or they were gone in a heartbeat. the staff...jeez. i just can't. but nice previous posts.
-
I will attest that the staff when i was there would talk in raps about their personal lives including friendships with people outside the school. They would say they had to be on bans with some friends who weren't part of the program. I remember brett and carey doing the same things with people who were making some negative decisions that they couldn't be around and blah blah.
the place was a cult. the staff who worked there always fell into line, because they were there all the time and didn't have time to rampage with logger drunks on the outside. their livlihoods still depended on making themselves look good to the school. Look at the staff who lived on campus for more clues about how far it went to their heads...they believed in mels "vision". or they're interepretation. everyone played their parts. the staff I mean. the kids you could count on to fall into line or they were gone in a heartbeat. the staff...jeez. i just can't. but nice previous posts.
Now THIS is testimony that clearly points to the cult aspects of Mel Wasserman's "vision". That staff felt comfortable banning themselves, or being banned by the school from interacting with people they knew on the outside. And to talk about their own lives before and during their stays there, it seemed like so many of them were so much more "fucked up" than the students were. Hearing staff talk about some of the insane stuff they did, criminal activities, drug use and so on. And they all felt that since they had gone through issues, this somehow qualified them to be therapists themselves and solve everyone's problems.
To get so sucked in to the cult, as a staff member, that you felt you had to divulge your own lives to total strangers seems so bizarre. I mean, I can understand an actual therapist giving related feedback to a patient as a way of making a patient feel a little more comfortable and at ease so they will get more in touch with what they are feeling, but this is a different sort of calculated process. The therapist would not feel obligated to share or compelled to share but would only do so in order to help the patient. But most times the therapist does not insert themselves in to the patients therapy, but rather sits back and focuses on having the patient share with them, in a private setting, what troubles them. I could not imagine going to a therapist who was crying and yelling at a Kleenex box sharing their feelings with me in the room with them. I would run for the door.
But yes, their livelihoods certainly depending on them acting in a certain way to please and fit in. I guess a lot of jobs require some level of fitting in, but obviously not on this level. And as students, some of our punishments (well all of them) involved being banned from various people and activities including being banned from speaking to our own family members. I know on my full time I was banned from the entire school save two or three staff, banned from everyone outside of campus including my mother, father and siblings. Could you imagine taking a job where they would ban you from interacting with your spouse, children, former friends and associates? What a power trip! And to accept that? I can't even imagine allowing an employer to assume such authority over my personal life.
Great post HHb.
-
So, what has happened to this cunt anyways? Seriously, where did she go after Cedu closed?
I saw a short video of her. Jesus, what a phoney!
where's this video?
-
So, what has happened to this cunt anyways? Seriously, where did she go after Cedu closed?
I saw a short video of her. Jesus, what a phoney!
where's this video?
-
Caroline Wolf, an incomplete itinerary through the TTI :
(excluding years as a "student")
• 1991-1992... still (counselor?) at Rocky Mountain Academy (on staff for allegedly 11 years by the time she left):
RMA Counselor, Vicki Jones Returns After One Year Sabbatical (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1992/2/seen03.html)
Vicki Jones, a counselor at Rocky Mountain Academy, has returned to the Academy after a one year sabbatical touring Asia and New Zealand with her husband Chuck. Randy Eide and Caroline Wolf took a six-week traveling sabbatical touring the U.S. during September and October. Changes that have occurred at RMA consist of combining the Voyager and Discovery families, the first two families, into the one Voyager family with Brett Carey as family head, Caroline Wolf taking over as New Horizons family head, and Mary Weber-Quinn as the academic director.[/list]
• By 1995... "team leader Transport agent" with West Shield Adolescent Services:
Opinion & Essays, 02/1995 - Letters to the Editor, Woodbury Reports (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1995/2/oe01.html)
Dear Linda: My daughter's father and I want to thank you for your help regarding _____. Your recommendations have been excellent. We used West Shield's Caroline Wolf and Ollie Perkins as escorts who really helped her frame of mind for SUWS and continuation on to Mount Bachelor.
[/list]
See also Caroline's essay on "
Teens and Transportation (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=26724&p=326851#p326851)" (April 1995)[/list]
• By late 1996... "Consultant Relations" at Aspen Achievement Academy:
Woodbury Reports, Schools & Program Visits - Dec, 1996 Issue #43 (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1996/12/visit01.html)
ASPEN ACHIEVEMENT ACADEMY
Caroline Wolf, Consultant Relations
Loa, Utah
800-283-8334
Lon's Visit: August 20, 1996[/list][/list]
• By mid 1997... (undefined role) at Aspen Ranch (this position is probably the same as and concurrent with that above at AAA):
Woodbury Reports, News & Views - Jun, 1997 Issue #46 (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1997/6/news01.html)
"...May found us whirling through Utah visiting a mix of special needs programs. Of course, we thoroughly enjoyed the diverse scenery as we traveled through Utah. We visited... Caroline Wolf at Aspen Ranch and Aspen Achievement Academy...[/list]
• By June 1998... Admissions Director for Second Nature Wilderness Program:
Woodbury Reports, New Perspectives - Jun, 1998 Issue #52 (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1998/6/np01.html)
SECOND NATURE WILDERNESS PROGRAM, LLC
Salt Lake City, Utah
Caroline Wolf, Admissions Director
801-994-5022[/list][/list]
• March 2001... (co-founder?) of New Horizons Wilderness Program (note that she was "New Horizons family head" at RMA just about a decade prior):
NEW HORIZONS WILDERNESS PROGRAM (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/SnHApr01_010401.shtml)
(March 30, 2001) Caroline Wolf announced the grand opening of New Horizons, an all-female wilderness program based in Orrington, Maine, 207-992-2424, [email protected]. This five to eight week program will open in June of this year. Wolf, who has worked with the CEDU Schools and Second Nature, is working with Jacqueline Danforth, who was associated with Rocky Mountain Academy (A CEDU School). Both were graduates of Emotional Growth schools. They assert this "is the first East Coast all female program of its kind to be located in the healing, rural landscape of Northern Maine. It will be located in Maine at the "Gateway to the North Maine Woods." Further developments will be announced in Woodbury Reports' "Places for Struggling Teens" newsletter.[/list]
-
I was there from 85-87...not convinced of the cult. The 'program' actually had some parts that works and there were some good people there at the time (no not Randy and Caroline...but they kind of served a purpose with their scare tactics...I just never paid much attention to them). Tim Brace, Bruce, Brett and Lisa...I think these people did care...but when I went back for my one and only visit in 1995ish...the place had gone to shit. I couldn't believe the people that were running the program...I thought it was kinda sad...since, while flawed, it did make a positive impact on a lot of people. All the main people were gone and maybe at that time, it was some weird, corrupted, cultish kind of thing going on. All the alumni fuck ups afterwards might have been mitigated a bit with some kind of follow-up/support program (or something?)...but then again, we are all responsible for ourselves...especially when we hit 25-30-35...after that, there are no more excuses (mom/dad, environment, rma, etc...).
But yeah...back to the topic. Caroline was a bitch...I just never paid much attention to her (except maybe her tits).
O0
-
(http://http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3354/4619452277_ea85510438_s.jpg)
Carolyn Wolf of Second Nature in Duchesne, Utah
visits Woodbury, June 19, 2000[/list]
See also source page (http://http://www.flickr.com/photos/wri_visitors/4619452277/in/set-72157623964471805/) from Woodbury Reports' pages on Flicker.
-
An (old) issue of 'New Perspectives' from Woodbury Reports:
-------------- • -------------- • --------------
New Perspectives - Jun, 1998 Issue #52
SECOND NATURE WILDERNESS PROGRAM, LLC (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1998/6/np01.html)
Salt Lake City, Utah
Caroline Wolf, Admissions Director
801-994-5022
"Second Nature is a seven week outdoor program designed to create an intensive initial impact for students, teach them positive behaviors and communication skills, and integrate strong work habits with effective interpersonal functioning. The first three weeks (this can vary according to student's progress) is comprised of wilderness expeditions which teach the basic lessons of the outdoors—personal responsibility, awareness of how behavior impacts others, and the beginnings of self esteem based on internal feelings rather than in response to the external world. Focal points are survival skills, self- sufficiency, awareness of issues, and communication skills." "The last four weeks takes the student from this awareness into positive personal and interpersonal habits. The students spend five days a week being trained for and completing volunteer work projects while focusing on teamwork, cooperation, self-esteem, resolution of issues, interpersonal skills, work ethic, and giving to others. They learn and practice work skills, something many of today's youth are lacking, along with the interpersonal skills that help make them successful."
"Traditional and experiential therapy, in combination with structure and guidance, provide the other change elements. Highly skilled, experienced therapists and counselors work with the students by building relationships, teaching, role modeling, giving feedback, supporting, and exploring issues. Families are involved in treatment at home, and have weekly calls with their student's therapist as well as two family therapy phone calls with the student and therapist during the work phase. Follow up aftercare is available both by phone with your therapist and by referral to support groups who use the parenting model Second Nature adheres to, "Parenting with Love and Logic" (Cline and Fay)."
"The Second Nature base camp is located in the High Uintas of Utah, one of the most beautiful mountainous areas in the West. Students spend two days a week at the base in wood heated tents, receiving therapy, academic assistance, medical checkups, showers, and preparing for the next week's expedition."
"Second Nature offers academic credit for independent study course work through Brigham Young University's high school program. Students receive an assessment by the Academic Director upon admission, and that information is combined with examination of transcripts and conversation with parents prior to choosing a course. Students are tutored through the course by counselors, supervised by the Academic Director, and exams are administered while the student is in base camp."
Copyright © 1998, Woodbury Reports, Inc.
-
If a child should fall in the High Uintas of Utah,and nobody hears him,do his screams still make noise?
-
If a child should fall in the High Uintas of Utah,and nobody hears him,do his screams still make noise?
Probably depends on whether said quandary of that kid's misery would be interpreted and processed through a psychological, metaphysical, or epistemological lens.
Probably also depends, somewhat, on how numerous and how hongery the bears are in that neck o' the woods at the time.
-
From the above "New Perspectives (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6980&p=398735#p398722)" piece from Woodbury Reports:
...Follow up aftercare is available both by phone with your therapist and by referral to support groups who use the parenting model Second Nature adheres to, "Parenting with Love and Logic" (Cline and Fay).[/list]
Interesting. "Parenting with Love and Logic (http://http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Love-Logic-Teaching-Responsibility/dp/0891093117)," by Foster W. Cline and Jim Fay, is a book that the Gaulds of Hyde School are also quite fond of.
Foster Cline, arguably considered to be one of the founders / foremost proponents of Attachment Therapy (after Robert Zaslow lost his license in California), used to head Evergreen Consultants in Colorado, where he ended up being a mentor and perhaps even supervisor to Connell Watkins. From the article, "Therapist has strong defenders, foes (http://http://www.rickross.com/reference/rebirthing/rebirthing10.html)" (by Peggy Lowe and Carla Crowder; Oct. 29, 2000; Denver Rocky Mountain News):
...The Watkins family moved to Fort Collins, where Connell Watkins worked as a social worker for the state. Another move took them to Evergreen, where Watkins hooked up with Dr. Foster Cline and a group of therapists at Evergreen Consultants who were earning a reputation for treating severely disturbed children.
Cline and Watkins began focusing on the problems some adopted children have in bonding and showing love. Their work grew in reputation, but at least one earlier case went bad. Cline, Watkins and another therapist were working on an aggressive 11-year-old boy in 1988.
They cursed at him, restrained him, and twisted him into a painful position, the attorney general's office found. Cline, according to the attorney general, had engaged in "grossly negligent medical practice."
Although criminal charges were ultimately dropped, the state banned Cline from practicing holding therapy in Colorado. He moved to Idaho in 1995. Watkins was allowed to continue working with children...
[/size]
Of course, Connell Watkins is herself better known as one of the therapists who later ended up crushing and asphyxiating 10-year-old Candace Newsmaker to death in a "rebirthing" gone wrong on April 18, 2000.
-
If a child should fall in the High Uintas of Utah,and nobody hears him,do his screams still make noise?
Probably depends on whether said quandary of that kid's misery would be interpreted and processed through a psychological, metaphysical, or epistemological lens.
Probably also depends, somewhat, on how numerous and how hongery the bears are in that neck o' the woods at the time.[
Thanx Bear, I had to look up epistemological. And I'm still not sure what it means.But I don't know how I don't know that. (I think).
-
But I don't know how I don't know that. (I think).
lol. clever.
If epistemology is the study of what we know, what is the study of what we don't know? Or would it be the deliberate avoidance of what we don't know?
For some reason, I keep thinking about the California public school system.
I suppose I should stay on topic, but I think the epistemology of Caroline has been covered.