Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Che Gookin on September 13, 2010, 03:00:48 AM
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http://http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/September-2010/Dining-Critic-Tries-Nutraloaf-the-Prison-Food-for-Misbehaving-Inmates/
My favorite comment is the suggestion that the government do away with food stamps and use these things as a replacement for them. Someone showed me this article and it got me to thinking about program punishment diets. Technically most states make that sort of thing illegal, but as those of us who have been there know, there are ways around it.
I've often wondered what other programs used for their punishment diets. I remember at 3 springs it tended to be a bland fare of white bread sandwiches of some sort.
How about you?
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At HLA/Ridge Creek School it was whitebread with a single slice of processed cheese for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
That, plus a steady diet of humiliation to make up for the lack of calories in the "restrictions diet."
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At ASR if there was a special night where they were having pizzas delivered or had an ice cream bar for that night a student on restriction may be denied the special meal. But they were always served a balance diet as far as know. The wilderness piece of the program was much more restrictive and the students did not have as many choices at meal time, but minimal calorie counts were met as far as I know.
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Different programs are a bit more careful about following the letter of the law I'm sure. One thing I found commendable about E-kill-a-kid, well certainly I give the bastards no props for killing a kid, but they did have a sound belief that all kids ate as a group and all groups no matter how moronic they were acting ate the same food. There were no restrictions beyond dietary restrictions.
One of the hardest things about the job was having to serve the meals. Each counselor would sit at the head of his group's table and dole out the food to their group in a family style dining arrangement. So often I was doling out food to a kid who spent the morning calling me every filthy word in the book. As much as I might have wanted to spit in his food and smear it in his face it just wasn't on. Couldn't deny him dessert either.
It was difficult at first, but after awhile the non-punitive nature of the program caught on. The idea being it was punishment enough being in a program in the first place. No need to add insult to injury as the kids had nothing but time to figure out their behaviors.
3 Springs, well that is another story. I swear to shit that place is secretly owned by a Korean Conglomerate which regularly sends directives out titled, "FASTER FASTER. MORE PAIN, CHEAPER, LOYALTY, KIMCHI IS GOOD."
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Straight's food was horrendous anyway, but the punishment diets were even worse. The norm for us at the building was 'donated' food, consisting of usually spoiled cottage cheese and some either rotting or almost rotting fruit or a 'sandwich', which was soggy white bread with a couple of slices of cold cut 'meats' (I use that term loosely) thrown on. These were accompanied by a dixie cup of either Kool-Aid or water. The foods at the 'foster homes' ranged from barely adequate to sometimes quite decent depending on the family, but usually only on Sundays when we didn't have to be at the building until later. And very often the families that provided decent food soon caught on to the bullshit and pulled their kids. They were getting a glimpse of what the kids were exposed to when we were in the building, which was 12-18 hours daily, except Sundays when we could go in a bit later.
The punishment diets were peanut butter diets, which could and very often did go on for months. The child received a small slab of peanut butter between two pieces of white bread and the ever present dixie cup of water. Breakfast, lunch and dinner. For weeks to months on end. The parents were told to apply any punishments newcomers received at the building, however harsh or abusive, to them at their homes. Some found it inhumane, began to investigate Straight a little further and ended up pulling their kids out.
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shocking that it never struck them as insane right up front.
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For some reason the word Nutraloaf make me laugh, it's a funny word. At the private program I was at, we were fed well. I think the biggest complaint about the food is from people who gained weight, I've heard that complaint from girls who went there. They actually gave us a lot of food, I rarely was able to finish the portions. On holidays it was crazy, they let us eat as much as we wanted, and they had cake, and turkey and all the side dishes. So of course when given the freedom to eat as much as we wanted some indulged a little too much and ended up throwing up from eating too much. It was like a party atmosphere on those holiday days like thanksgiving and Christmas when they provided a ton of good food and you could take as much as you wanted. The only time food was restricted was when you were on the lowest rung of the program ladder, they'd limit the condiments, but that rule changed after I was there actually. So you couldn't get mustard and ketchup for hamburgers, or sugar for your breakfast oatmeal. But it only took like 2 days of behaving to get to the level you could get those condiments, so it wasn't a big deal. The only time I saw food used as part of punishment was when you were in isolation you got a different meal than everyone else. If I remember correctly it was a dry bagel and banana for breakfast, and a bean and lettuce burrito for dinner. It's not like they were starving us, but if you were being punished they didn't deliver you a good meal like everyone else was enjoying. Part of the thing about isolation is making you want to return to the normal population and so you will behave, and so giving you bland food is part of that process.
But when I think of all the people around the world starving right now, they would consider the punishment diet a great feast, so it's all relative. It's all relative, since we are all used to getting great food in any quantity we want. So for me to complain about the diet makes me feel spoiled , out of touch with the real world, so I don't think it was an issue really. I'd rather be in a program getting a bean burrito, than in Africa starvinv to death wishing for anything to eat.
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Straight's food was horrendous anyway, but the punishment diets were even worse. The norm for us at the building was 'donated' food, consisting of usually spoiled cottage cheese and some either rotting or almost rotting fruit or a 'sandwich', which was soggy white bread with a couple of slices of cold cut 'meats' (I use that term loosely) thrown on. These were accompanied by a dixie cup of either Kool-Aid or water. The foods at the 'foster homes' ranged from barely adequate to sometimes quite decent depending on the family, but usually only on Sundays when we didn't have to be at the building until later. And very often the families that provided decent food soon caught on to the bullshit and pulled their kids. They were getting a glimpse of what the kids were exposed to when we were in the building, which was 12-18 hours daily, except Sundays when we could go in a bit later.
The punishment diets were peanut butter diets, which could and very often did go on for months. The child received a small slab of peanut butter between two pieces of white bread and the ever present dixie cup of water. Breakfast, lunch and dinner. For weeks to months on end. The parents were told to apply any punishments newcomers received at the building, however harsh or abusive, to them at their homes. Some found it inhumane, began to investigate Straight a little further and ended up pulling their kids out.
This comment brought back many memories. At one point in Atlanta we were receiving slop that people had sent back from the PO FOLKS restaurant down the road. Fried chicken with feathers attached etc. It was not unusual to get your piece of chicken and see that it already had a bite gone. But hey, according to Max I should be grateful for that right? I could have been in a desert somewhere starving to death instead. Gosh, how comforting that thought is to me. I feel the PTSD receding now.
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I share my own experiences, and my own feelings about things. I don't tell other people how they should feel. I don't know why this is so difficult to understand, people have different views and experiences, there doesn't need to be a common denominator here that everyone agrees on. You were fed slop, ok, that sucks. It's great that program you went to doesn't exist anymore. Where I was at, we ate well, and I don't feel like complaining about it. You are free to feel whatever you want, and so am I. It would be nice if people can respect the fact people don't all share the same experience here. I'm kind of getting tired of responding to the "your experience and opinions infringes on my suffering" type of posts.
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For some reason the word Nutraloaf make me laugh, it's a funny word. At the private program I was at, we were fed well. I think the biggest complaint about the food is from people who gained weight, I've heard that complaint from girls who went there. They actually gave us a lot of food, I rarely was able to finish the portions. On holidays it was crazy, they let us eat as much as we wanted, and they had cake, and turkey and all the side dishes. So of course when given the freedom to eat as much as we wanted some indulged a little too much and ended up throwing up from eating too much. It was like a party atmosphere on those holiday days like thanksgiving and Christmas when they provided a ton of good food and you could take as much as you wanted. The only time food was restricted was when you were on the lowest rung of the program ladder, they'd limit the condiments, but that rule changed after I was there actually. So you couldn't get mustard and ketchup for hamburgers, or sugar for your breakfast oatmeal. But it only took like 2 days of behaving to get to the level you could get those condiments, so it wasn't a big deal. The only time I saw food used as part of punishment was when you were in isolation you got a different meal than everyone else. If I remember correctly it was a dry bagel and banana for breakfast, and a bean and lettuce burrito for dinner. It's not like they were starving us, but if you were being punished they didn't deliver you a good meal like everyone else was enjoying. Part of the thing about isolation is making you want to return to the normal population and so you will behave, and so giving you bland food is part of that process.
But when I think of all the people around the world starving right now, they would consider the punishment diet a great feast, so it's all relative. It's all relative, since we are all used to getting great food in any quantity we want. So for me to complain about the diet makes me feel spoiled , out of touch with the real world, so I don't think it was an issue really. I'd rather be in a program getting a bean burrito, than in Africa starvinv to death wishing for anything to eat.
Yeah, I'm sure the kids who got food poisoning from being required to eat spoiled food think back now and are grateful. I mean, it was for their own good. ::) And they sure as hell starved quite a few people that I saw. What do you think being on those "diets" did to the growing body of a still developing child? Peanut butter for months on end? But it's all okay because there are starving kids in Africa?
Everything's relative....doesn't excuse what was done to so many in the name of "treatment".
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I share my own experiences, and my own feelings about things. I don't tell other people how they should feel. I don't know why this is so difficult to understand, people have different views and experiences, there doesn't need to be a common denominator here that everyone agrees on.
Because it's coming off as you trying to minimize what we went thru.
I'm kind of getting tired of responding to the "your experience and opinions infringes on my suffering" type of posts.
I'm kind of getting tired of responding to the "well, since you weren't outright killed, you should feel lucky" type of posts.
If you really are genuinely asking us about our experiences, then don't attempt to belittle or minimize what we went thru.
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Everything's relative...
What a classically lame attempt to "justify it off," as they used to say in the 'gram. :bs: :roflmao:
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I'm kind of getting tired of responding to the "well, since you weren't outright killed, you should feel lucky" type of posts.
If you really are genuinely asking us about our experiences, then don't attempt to belittle or minimize what we went thru.
I don't say things like that, that's how you choose to take it. In a treatment center I was taught about "I statements" and "you statements". I talk about myself, my experiences and my opinions. I don't tell other people how they should feel. But I am willing to be honest about how "I" feel.
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Its amazing reading how diverse these programs are (were). We have seen food service from outright rotten food all the way to having special diets prepared for the kids. I think this is an area where regulation would be helpful in enforcing dietary minimums so that the use of food isnt used in a harmful way.
Overall I think the programs are very healthy from a dietary stand point. Many of the kids who were eating poorly and over weight were exposed to a healthier diet and the daily exercise lowered their body mass to an acceptable level and vice versa for those kids who were severely underweight due to drug issues and poor diets on the other end of the scale. These kids gain the weight that they needed. You could tell by looking at the children which ones were there for awhile. They were the ones with great eye contact, higher self esteem and and overall healthier appearance.
@ Max's post. I dont think his intent was to minimalize anyone's experience. If you look at how our kids are with food in America today then having them eating Lentils, rice and beans would seem abusive in comparison to the amount of food kids eat today on a daily basis. So , I agree to a certain extent with Max, that being fed enough food is relative.
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I share my own experiences, and my own feelings about things. I don't tell other people how they should feel. I don't know why this is so difficult to understand, people have different views and experiences, there doesn't need to be a common denominator here that everyone agrees on.
Because it's coming off as you trying to minimize what we went thru.
I'm kind of getting tired of responding to the "your experience and opinions infringes on my suffering" type of posts.
I'm kind of getting tired of responding to the "well, since you weren't outright killed, you should feel lucky" type of posts.
If you really are genuinely asking us about our experiences, then don't attempt to belittle or minimize what we went thru.
Anne, he is not saying what your characterizing at all, your projecting this. I have posted also that Elan residents ate well, we did. Joe prided himself on feeding his kids. Roast pork, Roast beef, Steaks, Hams, Turkeys, Whole Chickens, Venison, Pizza's, processed meat (for sandwichs), fruits, all kinds of veg's, pies, cakes, cookies, sodas (soda machine, like in McDonalds), milk and chocolate milk. I know I delivered the food. Most houses had hired cooks with the residents helping. I know Elan 3 ate well because the food Joe ate came from there, Elan 4 ate the best if you ask me because of, John the cook. That stealing SOB could cook "road kill" and you'd swear it was the best thing y'all ever ate. John got fired along with his wife (admin secretary) for stealing beef roasts from the kitchen.
There are several other programs I have heard here that your food was horrible, I am very sorry for this.
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I'm kind of getting tired of responding to the "well, since you weren't outright killed, you should feel lucky" type of posts.
I don't say things like that, that's how you choose to take it. In a treatment center I was taught about "I statements" and "you statements".
Yes, we've all heard the loaded language (if you've read any of the stuff at http://www.ex-cult.org/ (http://www.ex-cult.org/) you're now familiar with that term and what it means). In Straight that particular point was gotten across to the person speaking in group by the entire group pointing to their own foreheads, to indicate "talk about yourself". You may not have said those specific words, but, IMO, the meaning was well understood. Especially in this....
But when I think of all the people around the world starving right now, they would consider the punishment diet a great feast, so it's all relative. It's all relative, since we are all used to getting great food in any quantity we want. So for me to complain about the diet makes me feel spoiled , out of touch with the real world, so I don't think it was an issue really. I'd rather be in a program getting a bean burrito, than in Africa starvinv to death wishing for anything to eat.
Now, if I'm truly reading too much into that.....fine but as I said, it comes across as you minimizing or attempting to invalidate our experiences.
I talk about myself, my experiences and my opinions. I don't tell other people how they should feel. But I am willing to be honest about how "I" feel.
And "you" talk about how "you" feel about what "other" people post and feel.
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I'm kind of getting tired of responding to the "well, since you weren't outright killed, you should feel lucky" type of posts.
I don't say things like that, that's how you choose to take it. In a treatment center I was taught about "I statements" and "you statements".
Yes, we've all heard the loaded language (if you've read any of the stuff at http://www.ex-cult.org/ (http://www.ex-cult.org/) you're now familiar with that term and what it means). In Straight that particular point was gotten across to the person speaking in group by the entire group pointing to their own foreheads, to indicate "talk about yourself". You may not have said those specific words, but, IMO, the meaning was well understood. Especially in this....
But when I think of all the people around the world starving right now, they would consider the punishment diet a great feast, so it's all relative. It's all relative, since we are all used to getting great food in any quantity we want. So for me to complain about the diet makes me feel spoiled , out of touch with the real world, so I don't think it was an issue really. I'd rather be in a program getting a bean burrito, than in Africa starvinv to death wishing for anything to eat.
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Now, if I'm truly reading too much into that.....fine but as I said, it comes across as you minimizing or attempting to invalidate our experiences.
Max, damn I did miss that paragraph. (sorry Anne) She does have a point, it could be misleading a bit.
I talk about myself, my experiences and my opinions. I don't tell other people how they should feel. But I am willing to be honest about how "I" feel.
And "you" talk about how "you" feel about what "other" people post and feel.
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I dint realize Nutraloaf was a real word. I thought you made this up Che! It is funny sounding
....but prison wardens argue that nutraloaf provides enough nutrition to keep prisoners healthy without requiring utensils to be issued.
Nutraloaf (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutraloaf)
(http://http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photo_StoryLevel/080324/080324-nutraloaf-hmed-10a.grid-6x2.jpg)
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God almighty that thing looks utterly disgusting. It amazes me how they've managed to get the recipe down to have nearly zero in the way of taste.
Though, it doesn't look nearly half as vile as scrambled pancakes. I used to have to cook meals in campsite now and again with the boys. None of us could get our pancakes done properly, so we'd scramble them like eggs. Would always end up with nearly half the group having the squirts for the rest of the day.
Not sure why they found that so funny, but they did for some reason.
weirdos.
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I'm kind of getting tired of responding to the "well, since you weren't outright killed, you should feel lucky" type of posts.
I don't say things like that, that's how you choose to take it. In a treatment center I was taught about "I statements" and "you statements".
Yes, we've all heard the loaded language (if you've read any of the stuff at http://www.ex-cult.org/ (http://www.ex-cult.org/) you're now familiar with that term and what it means). In Straight that particular point was gotten across to the person speaking in group by the entire group pointing to their own foreheads, to indicate "talk about yourself". You may not have said those specific words, but, IMO, the meaning was well understood. Especially in this....
But when I think of all the people around the world starving right now, they would consider the punishment diet a great feast, so it's all relative. It's all relative, since we are all used to getting great food in any quantity we want. So for me to complain about the diet makes me feel spoiled , out of touch with the real world, so I don't think it was an issue really. I'd rather be in a program getting a bean burrito, than in Africa starvinv to death wishing for anything to eat.
Now, if I'm truly reading too much into that.....fine but as I said, it comes across as you minimizing or attempting to invalidate our experiences.
I talk about myself, my experiences and my opinions. I don't tell other people how they should feel. But I am willing to be honest about how "I" feel.
And "you" talk about how "you" feel about what "other" people post and feel.
I'm sorry that you are so offended by my opinion, but that's how I feel. Our punishment diet was a banana and dry bagel for breakfast, and a large bean burrito with lettuce in a tortilla for dinner. Compared to our good food that we got everyday, this was relatively bland and less filling. But I am also saying, for me to sit here and complain about it, I honestly feel like a spoiled american who expects good food all the time, when the fact is a lot of people around the world would consider that so called punishment diet I received, a rare and welcome feast.
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I'm sorry that you are so offended by my opinion, but that's how I feel. Our punishment diet was a banana and dry bagel for breakfast, and a large bean burrito with lettuce in a tortilla for dinner. Compared to our good food that we got everyday, this was relatively bland and less filling. But I am also saying, for me to sit here and complain about it, I honestly feel like a spoiled american who expects good food all the time, when the fact is a lot of people around the world would consider that so called punishment diet I received, a rare and welcome feast.
I dont see how that was offensive and I tend to agree with you on this point, Maximillian, the minimum food you describe would be welcomed in other less fortunate countries. There are many posters here on fornits who feel food should not be used in the process of modifying behavior under "any" circumstances. But in reality most families utilize food as a behavior modifier also in the form of withholding dessert, snacks etc.
The only valid argument I see is if the program withheld food calories below the minimum requirement for several days at a time.
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I don't think anyone really cares about someone losing their dessert, at least I don't, but the idea of people being put on a punishment diet as described by Annie is pretty offensive. They've done the punishment diet in the North Carolina Three Springs program, bread and water diet for non-compliant youths. This was while the kids were on full day work projects as well.
It is my preference that the programs and facilities do not use food as a means of control. It really makes more sense to leave food out of that equation. There are plenty of other ways to encourage and promote healthy lifestyle choices.
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I don't think anyone really cares about someone losing their dessert, at least I don't, but the idea of people being put on a punishment diet as described by Annie is pretty offensive. They've done the punishment diet in the North Carolina Three Springs program, bread and water diet for non-compliant youths. This was while the kids were on full day work projects as well.
It is my preference that the programs and facilities do not use food as a means of control. It really makes more sense to leave food out of that equation. There are plenty of other ways to encourage and promote healthy lifestyle choices.
I agree for the most part. But if a kid screws up and is on restriction or whatever then maybe he doesnt join the pizza party or ice cream social. I Think every kid should have a healthy sit down meal 3 times a day. I dont advocate bread and water by any means. Those days should be put behind us or if not then regulation should be passed.
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In the psychiatric hospital I was in, there were a couple of girls suffering from eating disorders and the staff would make them to drink a certain number of Ensure drinks everyday so they would gain weight. One of them would put up a lot of opposition and wouldn't drink them at dinner, so she'd have to stay up after everyone else went back in their rooms for the night, and sit across the table from the nurse until she drank it. From the sound of the crying and emotion it sounded almost as if she felt she was ruining everything she worked so hard to achieve, she was really, really thin.
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I don't think anyone really cares about someone losing their dessert, at least I don't, but the idea of people being put on a punishment diet as described by Annie is pretty offensive. They've done the punishment diet in the North Carolina Three Springs program, bread and water diet for non-compliant youths. This was while the kids were on full day work projects as well.
It is my preference that the programs and facilities do not use food as a means of control. It really makes more sense to leave food out of that equation. There are plenty of other ways to encourage and promote healthy lifestyle choices.
I agree for the most part. But if a kid screws up and is on restriction or whatever then maybe he doesnt join the pizza party or ice cream social. I Think every kid should have a healthy sit down meal 3 times a day. I dont advocate bread and water by any means. Those days should be put behind us or if not then regulation should be passed.
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Depends on context of the event for me, I used to hate removing privileges from kids to eat with their families at Family Days. Yet that sort of thing was considered quite normal and still is normal. Some kids who couldn't keep it together would get white bread sandwiches while others would get all the good home cooked food their parents brought for family day dinner. Which is why after a about six months I just stopped using this as a consequence.
Again, I've worked in a program where restrictions of this sort were not present. It worked out well for the youth, the staff, and the families involved in the long run. A non-punitive approach can work if properly implemented as the idea behind it being the kid is already being punished enough by being in the program.
Still won't agree to a program unless it is deemed needed by some sort of court.
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I'm sorry that you are so offended by my opinion, but that's how I feel.
I don't take offense to your opinion, especially about your own experiences. What I (I think many of us here) do take offense to is your commenting on our posts (like mine about receiving only peanut butter on bread for weeks/months on end) and talking about it like I should be grateful for what I got. That, I do find offensive. It is abusive to deny a child proper nutrition, especially in that stage of physical growth. If you truly can't see that, and truly can't see how your comments might be found offensive, then you're just not trying to see 'the other side'.
Our punishment diet was a banana and dry bagel for breakfast, and a large bean burrito with lettuce in a tortilla for dinner. Compared to our good food that we got everyday, this was relatively bland and less filling. But I am also saying, for me to sit here and complain about it, I honestly feel like a spoiled american who expects good food all the time, when the fact is a lot of people around the world would consider that so called punishment diet I received, a rare and welcome feast.
Wonderful, but that's not what I experienced and you responded to my post about my experience with this...
But when I think of all the people around the world starving right now, they would consider the punishment diet a great feast, so it's all relative.
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I agree for the most part. But if a kid screws up and is on restriction or whatever then maybe he doesnt join the pizza party or ice cream social.
But that's not what we're talking about and, again, you knew this. You keep trying to imply that we're saying anything remotely close to that when we speak about withholding basic nutrition as punishment when you know it's not true.
I Think every kid should have a healthy sit down meal 3 times a day. I dont advocate bread and water by any means. Those days should be put behind us or if not then regulation should be passed.
Regulations are already in place. The "peanut butter diet" is abusive. A facility does not have the right to abuse a child.
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I agree for the most part. But if a kid screws up and is on restriction or whatever then maybe he doesnt join the pizza party or ice cream social.
But that's not what we're talking about and, again, you knew this. You keep trying to imply that we're saying anything remotely close to that when we speak about withholding basic nutrition as punishment when you know it's not true.
I Think every kid should have a healthy sit down meal 3 times a day. I dont advocate bread and water by any means. Those days should be put behind us or if not then regulation should be passed.
Regulations are already in place. The "peanut butter diet" is abusive. A facility does not have the right to abuse a child.
What I was indicating was that I agree with Che's statement that food shouldnt be used as a way to control a child or discipline them to the point where it effects their calories. But if a child breaks the rules then I would think it okay to deny them a special treat or event.
As far as abuse goes. I dont believe anyone has the right to abuse a child.
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I Think every kid should have a healthy sit down meal 3 times a day. I dont advocate bread and water by any means. Those days should be put behind us or if not then regulation should be passed.
Regulations are already in place. The "peanut butter diet" is abusive. A facility does not have the right to abuse a child.
I'm sorry, but the only acceptable form of "regulation" of a place that does things like this is to shut the place down.
Programs have been getting away with abuse and murder for far too long now.
Now go ahead and start with the "But what would you do if your kid was blah blah blah" questions...
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I Think every kid should have a healthy sit down meal 3 times a day. I dont advocate bread and water by any means. Those days should be put behind us or if not then regulation should be passed.
Regulations are already in place. The "peanut butter diet" is abusive. A facility does not have the right to abuse a child.
I'm sorry, but the only acceptable form of "regulation" of a place that does things like this is to shut the place down.
Programs have been getting away with abuse and murder for far too long now.
Now go ahead and start with the "But what would you do if your kid was blah blah blah" questions...
Completely agreed. As Newton and Whooter are so fond of saying "kids ain't got no goddamned rights". I was just pointing out that there are rights and regulations already in place to prevent/punish child abuse, which programs could give a shit about. Which is why the only solution is as you suggest.....shut 'em down.
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I Think every kid should have a healthy sit down meal 3 times a day. I dont advocate bread and water by any means. Those days should be put behind us or if not then regulation should be passed.
Regulations are already in place. The "peanut butter diet" is abusive. A facility does not have the right to abuse a child.
I'm sorry, but the only acceptable form of "regulation" of a place that does things like this is to shut the place down.
Programs have been getting away with abuse and murder for far too long now.
Now go ahead and start with the "But what would you do if your kid was blah blah blah" questions...
Completely agreed. As Newton and Whooter are so fond of saying "kids ain't got no goddamned rights". I was just pointing out that there are rights and regulations already in place to prevent/punish child abuse, which programs could give a shit about. Which is why the only solution is as you suggest.....shut 'em down.
Yeah, sorry Anne...though that post was in reply to yours, it wasn't directed at you as much as it was to others on this thread.
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I Think every kid should have a healthy sit down meal 3 times a day. I dont advocate bread and water by any means. Those days should be put behind us or if not then regulation should be passed.
Regulations are already in place. The "peanut butter diet" is abusive. A facility does not have the right to abuse a child.
I'm sorry, but the only acceptable form of "regulation" of a place that does things like this is to shut the place down.
Programs have been getting away with abuse and murder for far too long now.
Now go ahead and start with the "But what would you do if your kid was blah blah blah" questions...
Completely agreed. As Newton and Whooter are so fond of saying "kids ain't got no goddamned rights". I was just pointing out that there are rights and regulations already in place to prevent/punish child abuse, which programs could give a shit about. Which is why the only solution is as you suggest.....shut 'em down.
I am not saying that kids should not have any rights. I am saying that they dont have rights.. (or very little rights).
The "no rights" I was referring to earlier was "Due Process" I dont believe kids have this (at least not in my state). I haven't seen any laws posted or linked here which tell us otherwise. As far as rights go, until a child is of age then they are under the parents protection and have no legal rights unless they are emancipated.
This isnt my fault, Anne, its just the way it is. We need to blame our government or the voters
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I Think every kid should have a healthy sit down meal 3 times a day. I dont advocate bread and water by any means. Those days should be put behind us or if not then regulation should be passed.
Regulations are already in place. The "peanut butter diet" is abusive. A facility does not have the right to abuse a child.
I'm sorry, but the only acceptable form of "regulation" of a place that does things like this is to shut the place down.
Programs have been getting away with abuse and murder for far too long now.
Now go ahead and start with the "But what would you do if your kid was blah blah blah" questions...
Completely agreed. As Newton and Whooter are so fond of saying "kids ain't got no goddamned rights". I was just pointing out that there are rights and regulations already in place to prevent/punish child abuse, which programs could give a shit about. Which is why the only solution is as you suggest.....shut 'em down.
Yeah, sorry Anne...though that post was in reply to yours, it wasn't directed at you as much as it was to others on this thread.
No worries.
Aaaaannnd just as you called it......Whooter appears.
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What I (I think many of us here) do take offense to is your commenting on our posts (like mine about receiving only peanut butter on bread for weeks/months on end) and talking about it like I should be grateful for what I got.
I must of missed the part where I quoted your post and commented on it. Like I said, you take it the wrong way because you choose to. Go back and read what I wrote, find where I addressed what you said even once. It doesn't exist, you are making stuff up at this point Anne.
Wonderful, but that's not what I experienced and you responded to my post about my experience with this...
I didn't respond to your post at all. Did I quote it? Nope. I responded to this thread, not you. The world doesn't revolve around your posts Anne, I barely even scanned through the other posts when I made mine. Sorry you take my posts so personally, but I in no way mentioned you or your post. LIke I said, the problem isn't what I said, it's that you take it personally and think I'm commenting about you for some reason.
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I didn't respond to your post at all. Did I quote it? Nope. I responded to this thread, not you. The world doesn't revolve around your posts Anne, I barely even scanned through the other posts when I made mine. Sorry you take my posts so personally, but I in no way mentioned you or your post. LIke I said, the problem isn't what I said, it's that you take it personally and think I'm commenting about you for some reason.
No, I don't necessarily think you're commenting about me, personally. I think you're commenting in response to the thread, but the gist is there that 'this stuff really isn't that bad and doesn't rise to the level of abuse'. If I'm truly reading it wrong, I guess I'm truly reading it wrong. Just telling ya how it comes across to some of us.
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Ok you two. Keep to the topic of crappy program diets or move it to PM / OFFA. I'm not saying you're off-topic now, but it's getting there.
At Benchmark our punishment diet was the "Benchmark Diet" which consisted of two cup-o-noodle soup cups and a granola bar/day (sometimes we didn't get the granola bar).
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I honestly wonder what those peanut butter diets did to us. No vitamins, no real nutrition....just a bit of protein for weeks or months at a time. What does that do to a developing body and mind? The teenage mind doesn't stop growing and making those neural connections until at least 25.
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I felt that we lucked out hard core concerning RMA vittles. Our running springs CEDU brethren werent so lucky, as their food was quite greasy, but RMA food was top notch, and made from scratch. We had diet restrictions, but actually, it was restrictions that make sense for a healthy diet.
Honey instead of sugar
Whole wheat and grain flour instead of enriched white flour.
Limited amount of coffee (caffeine) per day (1-2 cups)
Greens supplied at almost every meal
and that was pretty much it, if memory serves. We still got some processed food, such as cereal and saltines, but for the most part, everything was made in the kitchen, fresh, every day. (the best bacon Ive ever had was from our own slaughtered pigs) The only really fucked up thing was the rush to get our food before it ran out. I dont remember this much, but according to others, we ran out of food often, and then the remaining kids got rolls with butter.
Technically, a human could live on bread and butter indefinitely, and be fine. It was more the psychological aspect that was hard. The food was often the only thing at that place I had to look forward to. But the fact of the matter is, it takes a lot longer to make food on a wood burning stove. The kitchen staff always did their best to prepare enough for everyone.. just not enough for seconds. As a result, a lot of times, the firsts people were getting their seconds before the people at the end of the line had gotten firsts.
We also had commissary on sundays, where we could buy junk food with our meager allowance. gummy worms, screaming yellow zonkers, shasta soda, corn nuts, etc.
Compared to what other program people had, we ate like fucking kings.
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010