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Messages - Antigen
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12946
« on: December 02, 2001, 12:23:43 AM »
Alternative solution
Pablo, I did offer you an alternative course of action. You just didn't like it. But I'll repeat it to save you the trouble of going back over old postings.
Take a look out your window down to the waterway. See all those little boats skimming playfully on the shimmering water? Buy one or rent one with the money GT will squeeze out of you if given the chance. Take your boy, your wife, maybe a friend or two and spend a couple of weeks or months touring pleasant little sub-tropical vacation spots.
Or maybe a tour of Europe?
Or something more to your liking.
I know this stuff doesn't sound medical or magical enough to do any good. But the fact is that drug abuse and other self destructive behavior is not a disease. In young people, it's more often an adventure gone bad or just a simple lack of perspective. Help your son gain some of that. Give him a change of set and setting and a little distance from his problems. From the look of things, you can afford that.
Even if you can't carry off any of the high buck options mentioned above, it's real cheap to walk the AT. That would afford both of you all of the adventure, solitude and oportunity to commune with nature offered by those high-buck wilderness programs without the risk inherent in abandoning your child to a psychotic, sadistic cult.
Cheeky's right. I never heard of physical beatings during our family's 10 year association with The Seed in Ft. Lauderdale. And I only got sat on once in Sarasota. It was the psychological aspect of the program that was so harmful.
After months of limited sleep, constant surveilance and antagonism and just overwhelming emotional group interplay, they're telling him things like "Your parents don't want you any more, that's why you're here." Every kid suspects that whenever they're at odds with their family. And, in that state of mind, he believes it without question.
Did you say there's a tendency toward suicide in your family? There's no worse thing you could do than to expose your son to this particular type of treatment. Suicide rates among former clients, including graduates and staff, runs around 100 times (one hundred times... no typo) the national average.
Cheeky, you will find yourself. Your self never left, it's just that you were trained to reject you. No life is without some sorrow, but it'll be alright, I promise.
12947
« on: November 01, 2001, 10:15:44 PM »
Yeah, we're bad for his program...
OTOH, it has just come to my attention that Drug Free America Incorporated is an inactive corporation in Florida. Not the same entity as Drug Free America Foundation (who has taken over the domain name). And I can't seem to find a law enforcement agency anywhere but Chicago that's giving away free drug test kits and gulag referals to parents.
Is it just me or could there be some disention among the ranks? Maybe just the hint of a retreat? I'd much rather see that than watch them dig their heels in and get what's coming to them. All personal animosity aside, I used to be one of them. There, but for the grace of God and one very kind fomer Jesuit, go I.
12948
« on: November 01, 2001, 05:51:17 PM »
Wonder who wrote that for him...
No, Jason. Notice that it's been some time since Pablo's last post? And this one is sort of a bum's rush?
I'm guessing he either got busted or busted himself for talking to splits, pulls and screw-ups. Might have even brought some difficult questions to staff or the parents' group from here. So now, after they've installed cult members into the guy's home (and, believe me, they're running the place) and had a few more open meetings, maybe one of their grueling weekend seminars, now he's 'decided' that he's perfectly happy with everything about the program. Sounds just exactly like a canned response 'recomended' by the cult.
BTW, HI Greg! :-) Long time no hear from ya! Check your mail.
12949
« on: November 01, 2001, 09:56:06 PM »
I wonder who wrote that for him?
BTW, not sure if I'm at liberty to disclose identities, but it is rumored that two people who's situations have been discussed on this board have decided to leave the cult life behind in Orlando and to spend the holidays with family somewhere west of the Mississippi. I know of a certain grandma who's overjoyed. 
http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/roll.gif' alt=':rollin'>
12950
« on: October 01, 2001, 03:59:23 PM »
You are so level headed
Thanks for that. If I were on better terms with my daughter right now, I'd be trying to set you up with her.
12951
« on: October 01, 2001, 05:05:04 PM »
Psychic murder
That's how the thought reform process is described by some scholars. And that's what it feels like. Your previous post said it all and I was horrified by the implications of it.
You know they're brainwashing your son. Did you know they're brainwashing you more? Think for a minute. All of the behaviors you describe as suicidal are, though troubleing, within the range of normal teen rebellion. Driving fast? That's a thrill for some kids, especially boys. Using illicit drugs? 70% of the adult population, dear, including your medical care professionals, your legal people, teachers, bus drivers, cops... you name it. Are they all suicidal? Do they all need to be thought reformed?
Deliberately carving on one's skin is NOT typical teen rebellion. Psyche guidelines usually associate sexual trauma with self mutilation.
Again, was he carving before you put him in the Program?
You keep asking for absolute proof of certain specific methods of abuse, otherwise you will not act to protect your son. If I found out that a neighbor might be a child abuser, I would FIRST eliminate any chance of their having access to my kids and then further investigate. Mr., your response is just really bizarre for a parent. I'm not surprised, though. My own parents and plenty of others walked the same path.
Once again, let me remind you that in the State of Florida, if you suspect child abuse you have a legal obligation to report it or at least to intervene on behalf of the child. A few years ago, a mother went to prison on a homocide charge because she forced her teenaged daughter to work in a strip club. The girl was so humiliated by the experience that she killed herself. At this point, you probably don't care enough about your son to intervene on his behalf. But you might want to think carefully about any criminal investigations that might arise should it turn out that they are hurting children there at GT.
12952
« on: October 01, 2001, 01:25:29 PM »
Dear old uncle Joe
Ya' know, this reminds me of the sad tale of my dearly departed great uncle Joe. It was just prior to prohibition and he had a job cleaning up at the brewery. One day, he fell into a full beer vat. Uncle Jim and Uncle Thom were there. They dove in and tried to fish him out, but he fought `em off and subsequently drowned.
Blopa, I heard it through the grape vine that you have far more concrete evidence of abuse than just the Program's lineage. If you fail to protect your son at this point, there's no going back. He may forgive you one day, but he'll never ever trust you again.
12953
« on: October 01, 2001, 04:20:16 PM »
Fifteen year trigger
Up until a couple of years ago, there wasn't anything permanent, indepth or well used on the net about Straight, Inc. This in spite of the many lawsuites, investigations, books and so forth.
Now, all of a sudden, there are sites springing up all over the place. And if you look into the material on the nature of thought reform, you'll find that it takes just about 15 years for most people to 'snap' out of it completely.
I'll tell ya'll a little secret. I called GT posing as a parent concerned about a troubled teen. They actually said 'we have a lot of experience dealing with teenagers. They can't manipulate us like they can their parents, we know just how they think.'
But just remember, only 4 years ago a young boy was gang raped by a group of other boys in a foster home during a hazing ritual called 'the Naked Crusader.' I have to wonder if that's still going on. And, not to put too fine a point on it, but under Florida law, if you have cause to suspect child abuse and fail to intervene, you can be charged as an accessory to the crime.
If you really believe that dog and pony show, I guess you'll fall for anything. Good luck and I pray for your son and all the other kids in Group.
12954
« on: October 01, 2001, 07:34:26 PM »
More than allegations
Check again, please. I gave you a link to some old news items that tell the tale of successful lawsuits and Ken (who was a proud graduate of Straight, Cincinatti for some years) gave you some info on a more recent criminal conviction (not just an allegation, a conviction... though in my opinion it landed on the wrong party)
No, we're not all a bunch of program failures. When I left Straight, Sarasota in `82 I was on 5th phase, pretraining for staff. Many, if not most of the people who post to this forum are graduates and/or former staff or parents. Most of us are doing alright, though a few have come through here who aren't alright at all.
There are very real and sometimes longterm side effects from the isolation, humiliation and pressure tactic used in these programs. If you're not comfortable with the way they're treating the parents, please know that your son is getting it in spades and has no escape, not even a moment of privacy to reflect.
Right now, you have more factual information about what's going on at GT right now than any of us. Not to put too fine a point on it, I know you're in a tough situation and trying your best to do what's right, but I'd like for you to examine the way you're staging the question.
Apparently you're unable to speak with your son or you wouldn't be asking strangers what's going on inside GT. Is that correct? And, instead of asking if any of us have any reason to believe you should be concerned, you seem to be asking whether or not any of us has absolute proof that something is wrong.
In essence, you've turned your son over to total strangers; never even having met with anyone who's completed the program; you don't seem to have any reason to believe that they're not abusing him and you do have ample reason to believe that these same people have abused children in the past.
Mm. or sir, I cannot give you absolute proof that they're doing bad things to your son in there. But I'd get him the hell out of there if I were you just on what you've got so far.
As for what to do next, almost anything is better than abandonment. I know you don't see it that way. The Program staff is probably giving you all kinds of strokes for being such a good parent, paying all the money, attending meetings, dealing with the anguish of not being able to see your son or know that he's safe.
But if GT today is anything at all like they were in the past and like all of the other programs run by the same affiliated people (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), they're telling him just exactly that; your parents don't want you or they wouldn't have brought you here, they wouldn't believe you even if you did tell them what we're doing to you. This is very often true. I'd bet dollars to donoughts they're telling you that you aren't capable of knowing whether or not your son, who you've known and loved all these years, is lying to you. They tell you they have 'special awareness' in dealing with teenagers (asif teenagers were some kind of wild animal and not just young people) and that only they can determine when he's telling the truth. (i.e. when he breaks down and supports their story on any particular point)
All of these bad behaviors you attribute to your son are very definitely cause for concern. But none of them are new to this generation. What did people do with wayward kids for the past couple of hundred generations? Send them to a different environment (boarding school, rural relatives, whatever); keep them busy with various activities; encourage them to do something better, different; let them fall down (but don't cause them to!) and then be there to support them and give direction when they realize they've messed up and ask for help....
There is no simple solution to raising kids no matter how much money and commitment the Program coaxes out of you. If things seem fishy to you for some reason after a month, trust your gut. Like so many other kids, your son will probably learn from his mistakes and outgrow his wild ways even without any help. But it's a lot easier to get situated in life when you have family to depend on.
12955
« on: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM »
Info on Growing Together
Greetings Blopa, and welcome,
We don't hear much, either good or bad, out of Growing Together these days. Here are some
http://fornits.com/anonanon/peaars.cgi?fetch=13&found=379:342:196:1:7:8:9:10:11:12:13'>News Items on Growing Together from the archive. For some reason the `97 incident didn't make the papers. But I did see the police report. It seems that this rape was a part of a hazing ritual. Staff almost certainly knew about it and certainly should have known. But the child wound up being charged with the crime and staff just pretended that nothing like that had ever happened before or since. Call my a cynic, but I have a hard time believing that.
We know that the folks at GT are paying close attention to what we're doing. But they're not talking to us at all. Ususally, when we focus on one of these places, at least a few people will respond either in support of the place or with complaints. That hasn't happened with GT at all so far. The only information we have on GT comes from actual law suits. Very, very strange!
If I were you, I'd absolutely insist on direct and frequent contact with my son. That's almost an acid test. Anyone tells you that it's therapeutic to isolate an adolescent, even from his mother, is hiding something. Odds are they're hiding the same things they were hiding under the names Straight and LIFE.
You know the old joke:
"How many shrinks does it take to change a lightbulb?"
"Only one, but the lightbulb has to want to change."
That's not completely correct. You can force someone to change against their own will by breaking their will. That is the core method of the Program if GT is still working the same way. And, again, not one soul has come along to suggest otherwise.
So I can't give you absolute proof that GT is still abusing kids. But I can't give you any assurance that they're not, either. Because of what I know about GT's lineage, that's one of the last places on Earth I'd put anyone I love.
If you wander around some of these forums, you'll find that most of us regard this type of high-pressure, confrontational group therapy as worthless and harmful. Even among those who regard their experience as having been helpful most of them attribute that to simply having been removed from a bad situation; change of set and setting.
If you're not able to contact your son without withdrawing him from the Program, withdraw him. Take him camping, on a tour of france, walk the AT or something. Give him a change of setting, more time to think, less opportunity to go wrong for awhile.
And do let us know how it goes.
12956
« on: May 01, 2001, 01:55:04 PM »
Mwooohaaahaaahaaahaaaa!
I kinda thought you'd drop in. Greg's around, checking in once in awhile. Kim's BAAAAAK! Never paid attention to the sports threads (and thanks, ya'll, for using appropriate subject headers)
If there's a worse idea going than locking kids up for victimless crimes, it's probably locking them in close proximity to some tyrannical altruist bent on helping them whether they need it or not.
12957
« on: October 01, 2001, 06:08:24 PM »
Betty Sembler
Mel and Betty put at least one son through The Seed before founding Straight, Inc. I never met them while I was there. Never even knew they existed till fairly recently. They're not the sort of people to get their hands dirty in any sort of direct way.
But DFAF is absolutely ruthless. They're the driving force behind denying federal education funding to applicants with drug convictions, piss testing in the schools, workplace, hospitals, etc. They're especially active agains medical marijuana.
What the hell is 'uber-gala'? Are they finally coppoing to their Nazi affiliation right out in the open or what?
12958
« on: July 01, 2001, 12:40:21 PM »
Yeaaaaaayyyyy!!
Good to hear it, Face. -If there's a worse idea going than locking kids up for victimless crimes, it's probably locking them in close proximity to some tyrannical altruist bent on helping them even if it kills them.http://trebach.org/conference.html'>Saving our Children from Drug Treatment Abuse
12959
« on: May 01, 2001, 01:04:38 PM »
Re: Great relocation for the discussion board!
Hey Matt! Good to hear from ya'. Stay tuned for the next exciting episode. If you've never posted your email address to the forum, please send mail to [email protected] so I can put you on the list for the formal invitation to the mailing list and conference.
If there's a worse idea going than locking kids up for victimless crimes, it's probably locking them in close proximity to some tyrannical altruist bent on helping them whether they need it or not.
12960
« on: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM »
Welcome and welcome!
Just wanted to say hail and well met. I think the 15 year phenomena is kicking in. Took me around 18 years to really knuckle down and start sorting things out.
I don't have much faith in the legal system to help shut down absive coercive rehab. Law enforcement, military and politicians just love the places. I think we're going to have to actively oppose government to get things done here. It's not as hard as you might think, though. I think that as more and more of us drop in on the party, we'll have better and better resources to keep up to speed on things. That's already happening.
Then just speak out. Whenever you see a news report that misses an important point, write to the editors or producers or call into the talk radio and set them straight (so to speak...) Same goes for politicians; keep an eye out for legislation relating to what you know (not just this topic, but anything that interests you) Write to your reps, commissioners etc. and give them your side of the story.
They might not do anything just because it's the right thing to do. But they'll do damned near anything to avoid liability and loss of popularity (Guess what? Grandma lied. It really is a popularity contest.)
Just keep on truckin'. We're making great headway already.
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