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Messages - Lon Woodbury molests

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Do Survivors Lie: Part III (The Aplogy)
« on: November 07, 2010, 03:21:48 PM »
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Quote
I think you are trying to do damage control here Psy. If someone says they were kidnapped and abused in the same story we know we have to treat the subject of abuse the same way we treat the subject of kidnapping. They are not to be treated as literal definitions but rather they would be opinions. We could not assume that the word abuse is spoke in the legal sense. It needs to be understood the same as the kidnapping is... an opinion.



Again, according to your own standards a term need not fit the legal definition in order to be used. It was only a few years ago you were up in arms over the statement that ASR is not a school due to the fact that they didnt hand out diplomas, credits aren't transferable, and they aren't considered a school by Mass or Federal DOE's. It didn't meet the legal definition of a school, despite that you stomped your feet and insisted because it met the dictionary's definition it was in fact a school. You refused to accept the difference between a legal definition, and what is found in a dictionary.

This is no different. Kidnapping as it is described on here fits the dictionary definition, therefore these kids are not lying or exaggerating. You cannot have it both ways Whooter.

That being the case you are still empty on coming up with a single example of a survivor lying about being abused.

i disagree that the kidnapping of teens by Mitt Romeny 's Bain Capital 's Aspen Education Group Cult, et al, fails to meet the legal definition of kidnap. The problem is that the feds are disinterested in enforcing the law on behalf of teens. Similarly, lynching always met the definition of murder, but the feds were disinterested in enforcing the law on behalf of black. Teens = the new niggers.

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Do Survivors Lie: Part III (The Aplogy)
« on: November 07, 2010, 03:11:46 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "psy"

Quote from: "Whooter"
They could just as easily say making their bed in the morning was abuse and torture or that being forced to go to school was brainwashing. They could justify their words by saying it felt like torture or abuse or brainwashing

First: if they did it would be clear it was hyperbole/evaluative opinion and not a lie.  "This music is torture" for example, is not meant to be taken literally.

Secondly: to my knowledge, nobody has ever tried to pass making their bed or going to school in a program as torture. You are intentionally trivializing and obfuscating very real and very severe incidents of abuse by making it sound like survivors are whiny, spoilt, brats who exaggerate habitually.  Like Frederick and others noted.  Nobody has to exaggerate and if anything, they sometimes leave the worst bits out for fear they won't be believed.

I think you are trying to do damage control here Psy.  If someone says they were kidnapped and abused in the same story we know we have to treat the subject of abuse the same way we treat the subject of kidnapping.  They are not to be treated as literal definitions but rather they would be opinions.  We could not assume that the word abuse is spoke in the legal sense.  It needs to be understood the same as the kidnapping is... an opinion.

This music is torture,  This food was down right abusive, I felt isolated from my friends, etc. non of these are literal I agree.  But if you read here on fornits there are some people who think that the posters was really abused (in the legal sense) when this isnt true or at very best unclear either way based on the use of kidnapping, Gulag etc. which are not to be taken literally.

I feel that survivors do themselves a disservice because there are kids who really are abused and if their stories are lumped together with the stories of kidnappings then their abuse will fall on deaf ears or at best treated lightly.



...

Don't you hate when the escaping Jews of Nazi Germany said they were being murdered in gulags and killing centers? They weren't in gulags or killing centers. They were rehabilitative work facilities in the legal sense of Nazi Germany. They were being "final solution-ed" not murdered in the legal sense during Nazi Germany. Don't they do a disservice to real victims of murder when they describe their families as Nazi murder victims? After all, Jews weren't murdered int he legal sense during Nazi German. Saying otherwise is a disservice to the "real victims" of murder. Neither Jews nor teens are actual human beings in their respective corrupt countries and as such, we must accept their subhuman nature, and the right of exploitative organizations to kidnap and imprison them, as long as their is some possible rationale to say what's being done to them is legal.

(BTW individuals have been prosecuted or otherwise judicially censured for having their kids kidnapped, and "programs"  (i.e. cultic torture prisons of ritual sexual abuse like Mount Bachelor Academy of the aspen education group cult) have been successfully sued for kidnapping and false imprisonment. And we're just gettin started.)

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: How Was Compliance Gained?
« on: November 07, 2010, 02:55:12 PM »
I was abused by threat of violence and was not imprisoned at wwasp.

The thought reform prisons lifton studied, including those at N.K. and China, all used violence as their basis of gaining compliance and applying thought reform, and they were the organizations studied to draw those conclusions described in the paper you link to.

Violence to force compliance is indeed the means by which compliance is gained.

For example, we prisoners could not simply walk away because violence would be used to prevent our escape and force punishment upon us. For example, we could not simply say “no, I refuse to do such and such” because violence would be used as a punishment, or a means to force punishment on us and compel us to do such and such.

Violence was not we were afraid of, precisely, necessarily, but violence was the means by which what we were afraid of was forced upon us.

So, for example, we could be afraid of the insanity generated by sleep deprivation, peer denunciation, constant movement restriction / restraint, force feeding, forced labor, and continued imprisonment, BUT force of violence was the method that we were compelled to suffer what we feared.

Therefore, at bottom, violence was what compelled our submission, even when violence wasn't the most commonly used or most feared punishment, or even the reason "why" on some level we submitted at any given moment.

Does that make sense?

As an adult oriented program survivor—basically a survivor of a semi -traditional cult--- I suspect your experience was a bit different. For me, and the teens of the cultic torture prisons (cults, yes, but not traditional cults, more like the thought reform prisons of China or north korea)  if I could have left, or not participated, I would have! Alas, violence would have compelled my participation and continued incarceration.

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: How Was Compliance Gained?
« on: November 07, 2010, 01:54:48 PM »
Violence. All these "programs" use violence to force victims to submit (with the exception of the programs aimed at those post 18, and even then, a more subtle form of violence is used; refusal of access to phone, or seizure and refusal of return of property that is necessary for survival )

All these "programs" are incarnations of the Synanon cult
http://motherjones.com/politics/2007/08 ... n-industry

These programs force submission as concentration camps or prisons force submission: through the force of violence or through the threat of violence.

The only difference between the programs is how fast violence is used to force submission. That is to say, some will use violence immediately in response to defiance, some will use the threat b4 using reactive violence, some will repeat the threat multiple times b4 using domination intended violence...but violence is the foundation and means of control in all programs.

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The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Do Survivors Lie: Part III (The Aplogy)
« on: November 07, 2010, 01:19:20 PM »
Its all too indicative of the deceit of John David Reuben (whooter's real life rumored person hood) and /or the members of the Aspen Education Group that they use euphemisms to hide that they kidnap their victims, like this:

http://www.westpacific.us/?p=717

That's kidnap. Doesn't matter if the state turns a blind eye to it, or if you criminal pedophiles like Lon Woodbury and Rudy Bentz call it "escort."

The Nazis used euphemism to hide that they murdered their victims, like this:
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/holocaust.htm

That's murder. Doesn't matter that the state turned a blind eye to it, or that the criminal racists called it the "final solution."

You, and your ilk, John, kidnap, imprison, torture, and murder human beings.

That's no hyperbole, no exaggeration, no euphemism. Just the truth.

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