Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Mission Mountain School => Topic started by: aileen on May 06, 2005, 06:16:00 AM
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Just for everybody...
I apologize if I offend anybody in my posts; I tend to get riled up sometimes. Writing and venting helps me to see things more clearly. I am grateful for this forum, because since I left MMS I have just not thought about any of it. It is always painful for me to leave places and I was afraid I would be shut out because I left on a home visit.
After finding this forum, I have found opportunity to read other people's experiences and see different points of view. I have had the opportunity to vent my own feelings and also reflect on different aspects of my experience there, both in the forum and in my own space.
This has helped me a lot... I knew I was helped by the school, but shortly before I found this forum I realized how I was still living with the fear of punishment in part reinforced by the school...
since coming here, writing and reading these posts has helped me to sift through the good and the bad and see what I need to work through and let go of.
I guess what I wanted to say was thanks... to whoever started this forum and to EVERYBODY for sharing their opinions, views, experiences...
I also want to say that I may post things that are looking at things from one side, but a minute after, I will look at the other, most of the time I just spew out whatever comes into my mind... and none of my posts are meant to attack those who had a different experience at MMS.
I appreciate those who posted their experiences because it helps me realize why one of the friends I was close with while at the school seemed so different after leaving MMS... I felt really sad and confused about this.
Okay I'm done talking for now
Aileen[ This Message was edited by: aileen on 2005-05-06 03:17 ]
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I don't think that's right, I think it was someone named Kathy...
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Yap, Kat, you are right and I'm in the middle of finding that 1st post. Be right back ...
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Whoever posted this - very nasty and very uncalled for. Ginger does get a bit harsh at times with her words, but this was still uncalled for.
You should maybe get your facts straight. She's not the one who started this forum. It was by a woman who has posted on Fornits for a lot time and who must be quite familiar with these types of programs.
Here's what I believe to be the 1st post on this forum:
uthor WELCOME ALL MISSION MOUNTAIN SCHOOL ALUMNI!
Sorted in ASC Order
Kathy
Your gracious hostess
Joined: 2001-12-17
Posts: 276
From: St. Pete Fl & VA program '82 - '85
Posted: 2005-02-22 11:24:00
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Mission Mountain School, located in Condon Montana, is a special purpose boarding school for girls ages 13 to 18 with behavioral problems. The school has been operating since the early 1990's, the owner and headmaster is John Mercer. Like many special purpose boarding facilities, there is little information available regarding the long term affects of this particular program on the students. Currently there is some debate over whether or not the program at this school is beneficial, so we are interested in hearing from people who have actually spent time there. If you are a former student, staff member or have other intimate knowledge of Mission Mountain School, we would love to hear about your experience. You are free to reveal your identity or remain completely anonymous.
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A long time, not a lot time. A typo.
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If you have a problem with what Ginger says, be clear and address it. Seems pretty immature to say comments like 'she doesn't know shit' instead of arguing your point clearly and sensibly.
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yeah don't bash on her! She's stated many things that I trully support...
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Right on !!
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what? this post wasn't bashing on her. are you idiots? and i took that shit back in the other forum.
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I have no idea what all of you are talking about. I just read this post from a girl saying that she can see both sides, and thanks to the people who posted their experiences, and then she gets a bunch of replies telling her not to bash someone and be nasty. I re read it and there is certainly no bashing anyone in this post at all. If you are so concerned with people being "nasty" to each other, all of you who replied to this in that fashion need to check yourselves.
Melissa Gower.
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Aileen wrote: "are you idiots?"
tsk, tsk, um...not so nice... ::crybaby::
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sorry aileen.........i think we should all shut up.....keep on being defensive (MYSELF INCLUDED)..
but don't call me an idiot :roll:
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On 2005-05-06 16:44:00, katfish wrote:
"Aileen wrote: "are you idiots?"
tsk, tsk, um...not so nice... ::crybaby:: "
Maybe she shouldn't have called people idiots, but really to reply to a post that is in no way bashing anyone with posts telling her to quit bashing so and so, and quit being nasty is pretty idiotic. If I was Aileen I would be pretty dumbfounded and confused as well that I was being barraged by posts for bashing someone in a post when I didn't at all.
Melissa Gower.
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The funny thing about all of this is if anyone is not happy with what is being said, then why on earth do you bother to come back? Just an outsider's observation.
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damn.I don't think it's a huge deal....people misunderstanding..whatever..end the subject..geesus..bashing..u....bashing..her...bashing them........God..and she could protect her own self
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I see Aileen retreating in defense because of the ofensive behavior on this website---Its like we are in group agian and there are no leaders, and all of a sudden its open feed back time. And plus I see a chunk of people here urging even promoting there hurt feelings of MMS to the people that are even nuetral. Attraction is a much better sorce to use to sell something, and there is really nothing attractive or useful here. It feels like shit being here and anybody that feels happy when they get off this website must really like being in a dark hole, filled will lots of stinky poo thier own shit.
Gossip is nothing but damaging. The ramification reach far into the individuals being torn apart. But I see this as far worse and easier to do especially behind the viels of Anonymity. This is worse then gossip on the playground, Shallow, flimsy, and just as inneffective and violent.
I have seen most messages meet with defensiveness, This is my observations. Everytime that I write something I feel like I am throwing a piece of bloody meat into the ring and all of you attack it and then send it back to me askewed with some strange twist.
I don't want any response I just want people to ponder and be open to eachother. That is the minority here.
Remember that some of us love eachother.-
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Just to clear things up. I set up this new forum on Kathy's request. I hope I haven't been such an ass as to totally alienate anybody. Yes, I admit it, I'm harsh and cold and downright mean sometimes. The one thing that gets my goat every damned time, no matter how hard I try to get a handle on it, is Program apologist talking down to those who, given the same oportunity, rejected the Program. And MMS must be an awful lot like Straight because even your language, never mind the philosophy, is quite similar.
What's John Mercer's bacground again? Was he a Seedling or a Synanite or a CEDU graduate or something? Daytop of Phoenix House, maybe?
At any rate, I apologize for my rage and frequent lack of patience. You'd think I'd know better by now and be more understanding. But some old wounds run deep and seem to never heal properly. Yes, that's an excuse. FWIW, I think I'm a good deal less hostile and more thoughtful about it than I used to be. Almost every time I talk to Don Smith (host of StraightIncAlumni) I apologize to him. Few years back he was actually scared I was going to physically do him harm.
In God's wildness lies the hope of the world x the great fresh unblighted, unredeemed wilderness. The galling harness of civilization drops off, and wounds heal ere we are aware.
-- John Muir
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Hey Ginger,
John Mercer and co formed MMS after leaving Spring Creek (Lodge?). The place that I believe has also been accused of being abusive also located in Montana.
John has a degree and a masters in ecology. This qualifies him to deal with emotinally troubled kids, address the various types of abuse and facillitate group therapy because ...? Your guess is as good as mine.
kat[ This Message was edited by: katfish on 2005-05-07 12:09 ]
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Ok, that explains some of it. You know SCL is a WWASP program, right? I wonder if MMS takes WWASP referals or not?
If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be -- a Christian.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
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This is not the first time I hear that they branced off from Spring Creek Lodge. That is not a good sign.
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as far as a i know, the founders of spring creek lodge are no longer affiliated with it at all. they sold it and it now belongs to a corporate company. just because you started something years ago doesn't mean that it is influenced by you anymore. once they become huge and industrialized, the original founders from twenty years ago don't reflect the institutions. spring creek lodge is a huge employer, and is a much more formal place than MMS. i cannot say what it was like when it first started, but chances are that spring creek lodge today is completely different than it was back then. just think of a small grocery store, and then it gets sold to a walmart or something... the new model is completely different...
i am not positive on this issue of spring creek, but i'm pretty sure on it. its just important to keep the schools separate because it isn't right to blame current situations at spring creek on mercer and co.
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I don't blame think Mercer has anything to do with current allegations against Spring Creek, but I think it's interested that he comes from there. Wonder how similar they are...?[ This Message was edited by: katfish on 2005-05-08 13:29 ]
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On 2005-05-07 20:05:00, katfish wrote:
Wonder how similar they are...?
I think ya'll ought to compare notes w/ some fomer WWASP clients and see what matches.
Here's something that Ryan Pink posted recently talking about Cross Creek Manor and Casa by the Sea.
The tactics used to create undue psychological and social influence, often by means involving anxiety and stress, fall into seven main categories.
TACTIC 1
Increase suggestibility and "soften up" the individual through specific hypnotic or other suggestibility-increasing techniques such as:Extended audio, visual, verbal, or tactile fixation drills, Excessive exact repetition of routine activities, Sleep restriction and/or Nutritional restriction.
TACTIC 2
Establish control over the person's social environment, time and sources of social support by a system of often-excessive rewards and punishments. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with family and friends is abridged, as is contact with persons who do not share group-approved attitudes. Economic and other dependence on the group is fostered.
TACTIC 3
Prohibit disconfirming information and non supporting opinions in group communication. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. An "in-group" language is usually constructed.
TACTIC 4
Make the person re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize and undermine the subject's basic consciousness, reality awareness, world view, emotional control and defense mechanisms. The subject is guided to reinterpret his or her life's history and adopt a new version of causality.
TACTIC 5
Create a sense of powerlessness by subjecting the person to intense and frequent actions and situations which undermine the person's confidence in himself and his judgment.
TACTIC 6
Create strong aversive emotional arousals in the subject by use of nonphysical punishments such as intense humiliation, loss of privilege, social isolation, social status changes, intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques.
TACTIC 7
Intimidate the person with the force of group-sanctioned secular psychological threats. For example, it may be suggested or implied that failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequences such as physical or mental illness, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, drug dependence, economic collapse, social failure, divorce, disintegration, failure to find a mate, etc.
These tactics of psychological force are applied to such a severe degree that the individual's capacity to make informed or free choices becomes inhibited. The victims become unable to make the normal, wise or balanced decisions which they most likely or normally would have made, had they not been unknowingly manipulated by these coordinated technical processes. The cumulative effect of these processes can be an even more effective form of undue influence than pain, torture, drugs or the use of physical force and physical and legal threats.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =50#101071 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=9394&forum=9&start=50#101071)
I believe this is quoted from Margaret Thayer Singer's work on cults, but you'd have to ask Ryan to be sure.
Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;
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This makes me so sick! These tactics were used on me everyday! Especially Tactic 5. I felt so goddamn crazy, and they told me they did those things for my good. That's bulsh*t! I knew it then and I know it now. They isolated and medicated me so I would keep my mouth shut. I didn't do it though. Goddamn I hate that place!
Aaaaaah!
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yup, hit nail on the head...how can this be legal, just don't undestand...
An interesting link that deals with this issue and describes how this violates basic human rights can be found here:
http://www.whyaretheydead.net/misc/Factnet/CPS.TXT (http://www.whyaretheydead.net/misc/Factnet/CPS.TXT)[ This Message was edited by: katfish on 2005-05-08 13:48 ]
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"Laws are like spider webs. If some poor weak creature comes up against them - it is caught. But the bigger one can break through and get away."
-- Solon; Greek philosopher - c.630-c.555 BC
The trouble is that the bigger, stronger animals in our society support these tactics as a way to manage the evil, dangerous teenager monster. I don't think they'll change their minds about it. But they absolutely need the illinformed support of the masses. I think we can change that throug education; rampant talking out in group!Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.
--Philosopher, Blaise Pascal
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[ This Message was edited by: katfish on 2005-10-05 18:40 ]
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I haven't posted in a while, just being an onlooker and seeing where things go on this site. John Mercer, if you read some of the girls' posts, is an ass. Period. He got his start at Spring Creek Lodge and Spring Creek Lodge is a WWASP program. He got his training from them. I don't care if they are larger now they are all of the same basic mindset and it all stinks, if you ask me. They program teens and their parents, abuse the kids, and rip the parents off.
I have to say I heard something very refreshing. There is some hope in this big bad world of teen abuse. A friend told me that her friend's teen daughter was having problems so they sent her to a program. Immediately I became defensive and fearful for the girl. Then I learned this girl goes to the program during the day, she gets therapy from qualified therapists, her family too. She gets to go home every night, nothing like being away from her family for a year or more. Everyone is doing well and improvements are seen daily. She is also able to get a good education and there is not abuse or mental programming.
This hit home for me. I know we are all in the mode of "shut them all down!!" because either we were abused at a program or we know someone near and dear to us who was. Face it, that's why we're all here. Instead of "shut them down" we should be yelling out "reform!!" "regulations!!" Programs for teens, or any child, or any adult for that matter, needs to be regulated and needs to be monitored. Once something is proven ineffective it should be revamped. I think we're there, these programs are ineffective and I think this will come to the surface more and more. This is a huge industry and they have definitely got a foothold. But that should not discourage us to keep pressing forward to get things done.
We need to remember that as we sit here typing away on our keyboards, fighting and bickering amongst ourselves, children are being abused. It's not a question of "if" they are, we all know they are. We need to get it together and do something. Not piss and moan and complain. Not bash each other. Instead start doing something productive and helpful. Kids are depending on SOMEONE helping them.
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MMS rbanched off from Spring Creek Community Center. But tactics of SLC seem very similar to those used at MMS none the less. break you down and build you back up, in a very controlled way. John is a sick sick man., but apparently he is in the process of getting his PHD yikes!
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Liz - MMS student under the tyrant John Mercer from 01 to 03
Dude, tatic 4 was used on me the most. I lost absolutely all sense of self and felt crazy because I was acting so weird and I knew it. That stuff is crazy.