Fornits

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An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

On 2005-07-29 20:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I predict that within 6 months you will be sending your son to a program.  You will not be able to manage him at home, and his drug use will greatly increase.  Perhaps wilderness is not the right place due to his anxiety disorder, but there are very good reasons why the kids can only communicate by letter.  The family dynamics are usually a big part of the underlying problem, and need to be removed from the equation before progress can be made."

What a crock! The whole point of NOT removing a kid from the family is because the family dynamics are part of the problem; AND MUST BE ADDRESSED. Family therapy is the best way to address these issues. Removing a kid, changing him, then dumping him back into the dysfunctional family solves nothing. Rehab specialists have known that since the 1960s.

What is the deal with allowing dysfunctional and perhaps abusive parents the priviledge of blaming everything on the teen and sending him/her away to be fixed, while they sit at home smug and guilt free thinking they 'did the right thing?'

The real reason for cutting ties with the parents is to deny the teen the support system. He is easier to break if his parents are not there to protect him. It is easier to manipulate the parents if the program can screen the letters and do damage control by calling the parents and misinforming them that their child is just lying and manipulating. The child cries for help and the program tells the parents not to interfere or they will mess up the kid's progress. Say what you like, but it is the perfect set up for abuse. It is a pedophile's (or sadist's) dream come true.

On 2005-07-29 14:25:00, Antigen wrote:

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On 2005-07-29 11:31:00, Deborah wrote:


He looked to be in a mild state of shock.

And then the repelling crew may have refused to force anyone due to liability issues.

He's looked like a different kid from the tweak they showed in the before shots since at least the end of last week's episode. I think he broke for real during the hike to Eagle Camp.

Our country has deliberately undertaken a great social and economic experimanet, noble in motive and far-reaching in purpose. [The Eighteenth Amendment, enacting Prohibition.]
Letter to Senator W.H. Borah
--Herbert Hoover (Feb 28, 1928)

"

Maybe they got him back on his meds. Maybe he is just plain exhausted. Maybe both.

On 2005-07-28 22:06:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

"Who cares how hard it was for the damn parents? thats as irrelevant as it could be, and its stupid to play victim over and over and over. Boo hoo you wasted your money and a piece of what should be the best time of your childs life.



The bottom line is I've still yet to see the programs as anything but coersion and using various stressors to make them easy to change, which is 'brainwashing' with politer terms.



Punishment doesnt make anyone a better person. Finding something positive out of a shitty experience is a good skill but it doesnt condone or justify a bad experience. This has been gone over and over many times. You dont rape people so they have 'emotional growth'. Besides, 'emotional growth' is having a BREAK DOWN in the minds of these programmies and wilderness psychos.



Its all about forcing them to have a break down, but call it a "break through", and disclose all their personal shit and open them up to be more vulnerable and more humiliated "or work through it" and then when theyre open to suggestion you do so... which fits BRAINWASHING TO A T.



Fuck, talk to anyone whose gotten out of a program and wasnt brainwashed by it. They just made up more shit to divuldge and work through to get out... and you have to because eventually you run out of shit to talk about and humiliate yourself with. Its bullshit, not therapy, and punishment is a waste of time at best. I still fail to see the efficacy of these programs and the point behind them.



You either come out with a damaged or brainwashed kid, or a kid who fought the program and (if you follow their rules) someone you kick out anyway! I mean sure, you learn lessons from this mistake and "grow" from it, but so do people who survive being raped or tortured or trauamtic experiences. That still doesnt mean its a good thing to do to someone, you can gorw and mature by other means. Not everyone survives and grows off of it, anyway, plenty of people are broken by it.

Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.

--Mark Twain

"

Just for the record. What approach would you take to reach the teenager who simply won't cooperate at all is 'out of control' with drugs, sex, et al?

This is not an attack. I agree with everything in the above message. You state the case in clear and blunt terms. But what action, if any, should one take if they see a kid spiralling down the tubes and completely unwilling to listen, try, or stop drugs, or whatever?

Treatment options for adolescents with depression are similar to those for depressed adults, and include psychotherapy and antidepressant medications (see major depression for a review of treatments and self-care). However, one major antidepressant, Paxil, now has a warning NOT to be given to children under 18.

Family therapy may be helpful if family conflict is contributing to the depression. Support from family or teachers to help with school problems may also be needed. Occasionally, hospitalization in a psychiatric unit may be required for individuals with severe depression, or if they are at risk of suicide.

Because of the behavior problems that often co-exist with adolescent depression, many parents are tempted to utilize punitive solutions like "boot camps", "wilderness programs", or "emotional growth schools."

These programs frequently utilize non-professional staff and use confrontational therapies and harsh punishments. There is no scientific evidence which supports use of these programs. In fact, there is a growing body of research which suggests that they can actually harm teens, particularly sensitive teens with depression.

Depressed teens who act out may also become involved with the criminal justice system. Parents are often advised not to intervene, but to "let them experience consequences."

Unfortunately, this can also harm teens through exposure to more deviant peers and reduction in educational opportunities. A better solution is to get the best possible legal advice and search for treatment on your own, which gives parents more control over techniques used and options.

Though a large percentage of teens in the criminal justice system have mental disorders like depression, few juvenile prisons, "boot camps" or other "alternative to prison" programs provide adequate treatment.

I don't think your tone is constructive.

 I have read dozens of articles on this subject and consulted with friends and family. My sister has a PHD in adolecsent psycology, my wife is a board certified psychiatrist. My wife has worked in drug and alcohol rehabilitation programs, in prisons, and with the homeless. She pointed out the success ratios these programs claim are insane. If they use follow-up at all, they use unreliable self surveys. A kid is not going to risk going back by telling the company that runs his program that he has fallen back into his old habits.

Both my wife and sister informed me about something called 'situational adaptation.' It is a problem in almost all rehabilition programs. It is basically similar to Stockholm Syndrome. The patient in the rehab program will genuinely change their psycology to reduce the negative stresses the programs place on them. They are not faking it, and so appear to be helped. but when the program is over, the adopted behavour doesn't stick. Thus coercive programs usually don't work. A person has to want to change. They cannot be forced.

I won't pretend to be an expert on the subject, but there are just too many bad stories out there to ignore.

To me it is simply unconscionable to place a child in a situation where they are isolated and in the hands of strangers. If abuse does occur, they have no recourse and no one will believe them. I would not let my children go to SW anymore than I would let them sleep in Michael Jackson's bed. I don't care if he was aquitted, it just ain't right.

The program I attended was called simply Wildnerness Challenge. I don't know much of the details because I never looked into it, but it was not a for profit affair. It was sponsored by the school district. The director was reputed to be a survivalist expert who had trekked to the N. Pole. The groups were chaperoned, yup, along with our guides/counselors we had chaperons. In my group, our chaperons included my eighth grade english teacher and the principal to the school where I attended sixth grade. I had adults I knew and trusted with me.

The program was offered through the high school. I don't know how all the kids were recruited. I was convinced to go by a friendly 'intervention' of kids and teachers I knew. They talked me into it. It was only after the program that I was informed by one of the kids that they had been instructed not to let me leave the room until I agreed. That stung a bit.

Of the eight kids in my group, three of them were my classmates. The program was essentially, community based. I remember how it made me feel good to know these people all cared about me.

Oh, I was just told to add the following:

These for profit programs don't find fault with the parents because they want their money. Therefore, they place all the blame on the kids. This allows the parents to feel less guilty by shipping the problem child away instead of dealing with him/her as a family. The child may change, but is returned to an unchanged family and any gains will be either reversed, or suppressed due to the child's new found fear. These repressed problems will come out with a vengeance once the child becomes an adult and moves out.

"...today's coddled spoiled tantruming brats..."
 
Why each generation seeks to villify its children is beyond me. I'm 44 years old and remember the 1970s when I was a teenager. I watched the original Scared Straight (same director as the current Brat Camp). Back then, we had the same media hysteria about 'out of control teenagers,' increased sexual activity, increased drug use, the country is going to hell, yadda yadda. Yes, I went through 'wilderness therapy' (1975). I felt good for a little while, but it wears off.

The 'tough love' approach became a fad around the middle to late seventies and many states opened Boot Camps for delinquents. Most have closed them because they are expensive and don't work.

Now, private enterprise has found a way to sell the 'tough love' approach to parents and make a fast buck off other peoples' pain. It sucks. But what really bugs me is how parents and the media can be still be sold this outdated technology.

Personally, I find coercive programs intinsically wrong regardless of effectiveness. The ends does not justify the means and we are supposed to be a society that believes in free will and freedom of choice. Some kids need help, but force doesn't work and is just wrong. The one aspect of my own experience that sticks with me is the frustration and anger of having to endure attitudes and activities that I felt were wrong, but knew I could not even express my opinion without risk of punishment. I felt that was wrong then. I feel it is wrong now.

Yes, I have kids. No teens, yet.