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Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) => Thayer Learning Center => Topic started by: Anonymous on November 09, 2004, 09:10:00 AM

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2004, 09:10:00 AM

How many will it take before the our government decides to put regulations on these schools.  A 14 year old boy has died at Thayer Learning Center when dispatch was called they said he had not been breathing for 5 mins.  who the hell waits 5 mins. to call dispatch.  These people running this facility need to be stopped before more kids die(killed).  Fourteen year old kids just dont fall over and die.  There have been reports made that the boy had a dark complexion and there were bruises all over him that could clearly be seen he had looked as if he had been beaten.  There have been number after number of reports made to DFS(Department of Family Services) they know what is going on but their hands are tied in the state of Missouri schools like this are not regulated by DFS.  They have to have permission from the parents to even to talk to the kids, but by then the Bundy's have either picked out the kids that can talk OR talked to the kids and have manipulated them.  The Bundy's love to say that kids are manipulators, bullshit they are worse than any kid I have ever met.  They manipulate the parents, the kids, the people in our local communities, our elected officials, and even their own church.  The Bundy's will surely rot in hell for all of this. :evil:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: BuzzKill on November 09, 2004, 12:08:00 PM

How do you know any of this?
I'm not doubting your word - but where can this info be confirmed? Is there a news account anywhere?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2004, 12:25:00 PM

The kid's not dead, he's just lying about it and faking to manipulate his parents into taking him out of Thayer.  Pay no attention to those maggots, they're just a clever ruse.  You wouldn't believe what these master-manipulator emotional terrorist druggie kids will do to go home.  Oh, and that not breathing thing---that's self-injurious behavior.  Put the rotten spoiled brat down for more Consequences!

How long before the authorities get off their butts and *do something*?!!!

 :flame:  :flame:  :flame:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2004, 12:56:00 PM

Haven't found anything, but while searching found this:

Cadet is fatally shot at military academy
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

11/07/2004
MEXICO, Mo. - A high school student at Missouri Military Academy was killed in an apparent accidental shooting during a .22-caliber rifle qualification course at an indoor range.

Police said the victim, 17, was struck in the upper body Friday when a student in the course turned to adjust a mat and his rifle discharged. The victim, whose name was not released, was taken to the Audrain Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead.

"It's an awful tragedy," said Chief Mike Jerichow of the Mexico Public Safety Department. He said reports would be forwarded to the county prosecutor, who would determine whether to file charges.

Col. Ronald Kelly, president of the academy, said the shooting was "clearly an accident" based on the accounts he had heard. The students were involved in the rifle qualification course as part of an Army Junior ROTC program for ninth- through 12th-grade students.

"We're trying to take care of the kids and the teachers right now," Kelly said. "We're a pretty tight-knit group, and these kids are like brothers to each other, so this is very tough," he said.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... ry+academy (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/missouristatenews/story/C6D08BACEDED6DE886256F45004D98CF?OpenDocument&Headline=Cadet+is+fatally+shot+at+military+academy)

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2004, 01:30:00 PM

was it barekman?rutherford?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2004, 07:00:00 PM

Nothing is being said at all.  I know for a fact, this kid has died.  I know from the hospital and from the sherriff department.  All they can say is that a young boy has died, but they are not saying anything else.  MONEY TALKS, what can I say if this would have been the parent and fourteen year old died this way these parents would be in jail, but not in Missouri.  I find this disturbing, and the publicity that would have occured if this would have happened in a home would have been huge.  There was nothing on the local new or in any of the local papers. This is what pisses me off about this state government and our federal government.  IF you got money you can hide anything, but who suffers.  The everyday normal people are the ones that always suffer the most.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: cherish wisdom on November 10, 2004, 11:52:00 AM

I'd suggest that you call the local press and tell them what you know. They know how to get public records and interview the police and Thayer. It this is true - it is an extremely HOT news item - call the local paper in the community where Thayer is located and tell them what you know. You can ask to remain annonymous and they can never disclose your identity.  This is a hot news tip that would definitely be followed up on.  

Don't laugh when you leave this courtroom, thinking you have beat the system because you have looked these things up yourself. We are going to get you down the road.
Washington Superior CourtJudge Rebecca Baker

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 10, 2004, 12:33:00 PM

Might be better to go to a larger paper outside of the local community.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: terrified_mother on November 10, 2004, 12:40:00 PM

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... scipline++ (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/D269DB1C49F0E84786256F48005421AE?OpenDocument&Headline=Teenager+dies+at+school+known+for+strict+discipline++)

Here is the story.

A teenager sent to a private boot camp in northwest Missouri has died,
prompting an inquiry by the Caldwell County Sheriff's Department.

The teenager was a student at Thayer Learning Center Boot Camp and Boarding
School, a reform program based in Kidder, Mo., that relies on strict,
military-style discipline to reach troubled youths. In recent weeks, a few
parents have pulled their children from the boot camp citing concerns about
their treatment.

Jerry Banks, who operates Thayer, said the student died Wednesday, less
than a week after enrolling in the program. Banks would not identify the
student and did not provide an age.

Caldwell County Chief Deputy Sheriff Jeff Alsup said the death was part of
an ongoing investigation. He declined to provide further details.

Banks said the student apparently died of an "unexplained medical
condition." Students at the school participate in intense physical
exercise. But Banks said the student was not involved in any physical
activity at the time of death.

Banks said he was not aware of the student having any prior medical
conditions that would have required special attention. He said the student
appeared healthy upon enrolling at the boot camp.

Banks said he welcomed a thorough investigation. "We're cooperating with
everyone, because we want the answer, too," he said.

Thayer is one of several teen-reform programs in Missouri that are exempt
from most state regulation. Critics say the lack of regulation makes it
difficult to verify that the programs are safe.

But Banks said he was open to those who have questions about the boot camp.
In September, he allowed a Post-Dispatch reporter to tour the boot camp.

At least three parents have recently withdrawn students from the program,
including one mother who said her son had been in solitary confinement for
11 days.

But the majority of parents have stuck with the program, many praising it
for rescuing their youth. Banks said recent criticism of the boot camp
stems from misinformation spread by disgruntled employees.

Thayer enrolls more than 100 students, nearly all from outside Missouri.
The school charges $4,000 a month for tuition and room and board.

[]Reporter Matthew Franck[]
[]E-mail: [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected])



 
 

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Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: cherish wisdom on November 10, 2004, 05:28:00 PM

Those who know more - age and cause of death, etc. should notify the author of this article as soon as possible.  It seems the police are keeping a tight lid on this by not releasing anything. The center is only releasing carefully worded and defensive statments.  If you know anything or have in-side information this must be exposed right away.  Thayer has a reputation as a very abusive program.  This child was probably the victim of asphyxiation from a human restraint. This is a matter of public interest and must be exposed to prevent other children from experiencing a similar fate....

But this is far from demonstrating that the authorities must interpose to suppress these vices by commercial prohibitions, nor is it by any means evident that such intervention on the part of the government is really capable of suppressing them or that, even if this end could be attained, it might not therewith open up a Pandora's box of other dangers, no less mischievous than alcoholism and morphinism.
Ludwig Von Mises

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 10, 2004, 05:42:00 PM

We keep telling these program parents that their kids can end up dead if they send them to these places.

They keep believing it can't possibly be true or that the teen will end up deadorinjail if left at home.

Maybe so.  But there's a huge moral difference if a kid dies in his own hometown because he did something really stupid versus dying in a program *because his parent sent him there*.

If you don't "do something" "for his own good" something terrible may happen!!!!

Yeah, maybe.   :roll:   But at least you won't have *caused* it.

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 10, 2004, 06:38:00 PM

The boy was a 14 year old either african american or Hispanic boy.  Thayer Learning center waited five minutes before the the Caldwell County Dispatch was called.  I know all of this from listening to the scanner when it was called in.  The 911 dispatcher stated all of this over the scanner as it happened.  The kid was taken to Cameron Regional Hospital in Cameron, MO  where he was pronounced dead.  The information I received from the hospital was that he was severely bruised and looked as if he had been beaten.  The boys body is being examined by the coroner, I have been told they plan to do several tests and it could take up to a week for them to be done with it all.  This is all the information I have at this time I will post more when I learn more.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on November 10, 2004, 07:32:00 PM

Quote

On 2004-11-10 14:42:00, Anonymous wrote:

"We keep telling these program parents that their kids can end up dead if they send them to these places.



They keep believing it can't possibly be true or that the teen will end up deadorinjail if left at home.



Maybe so.  But there's a huge moral difference if a kid dies in his own hometown because he did something really stupid versus dying in a program *because his parent sent him there*.



If you don't "do something" "for his own good" something terrible may happen!!!!



Yeah, maybe.   :roll:   But at least you won't have *caused* it.



Timoclea"

Exactly!

Here's the thing, though. We've had decades, several generations' worth, of propaganda about the exagerated dangers of drugs and youth. So these treatment gurus have had a field day selling their expensive snake-oil cure for what ails ya'.

I think we just need to get the truth about these methods out there and maybe, as a nation, reach some sensible approach to managing and mitigating the inherent dangers of drugs and those of growing up.

Simple as water, and just as difficult to direct, eh?

A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace.
James Madison, The Federalist No. 46

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2004, 09:08:00 AM

What we need to do right now, is pray for the family of this poor child who has died at the hands of Thayer Learning Center.  And do this poor kids death some justice by coming together and getting this place closed down.  We need anyone (former employees, former students, parents, doctors who treated some of kids) anyone who has any information needs to speak up.  These people need to pay for this not only civilly but also with criminal charges.  Right now is the time to act if you have ever thought of coming forward with information or you have come forward already, make sure you are heard tell DFS, Government, Sherriffs Dept, anybody who will listen.  Lets put a stop to this now before someone else dies.  We already know of several kids who have been severely injured at the school and nothing was done.  So lets please for the sake of this young childs' short lived life do something now. :evil:  :mad:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2004, 10:19:00 AM

Quote

On 2004-11-10 15:38:00, Anonymous wrote:

"The boy was a 14 year old either african american or Hispanic boy.  Thayer Learning center waited five minutes before the the Caldwell County Dispatch was called.  I know all of this from listening to the scanner when it was called in.  The 911 dispatcher stated all of this over the scanner as it happened.  The kid was taken to Cameron Regional Hospital in Cameron, MO  where he was pronounced dead.  The information I received from the hospital was that he was severely bruised and looked as if he had been beaten.  The boys body is being examined by the coroner, I have been told they plan to do several tests and it could take up to a week for them to be done with it all.  This is all the information I have at this time I will post more when I learn more.  "

Have you called the major newspaper of the biggest city in the state, or the nearest big city?

*Do*

Their reporters can get more information than you can, and the reporters at a big city newspaper will tend to be more liberal than the society around them and more skeptical of holy rollers.

I tend towards the more right/libertarian (little "l") political philosophy, but if a reporter's liberal feelings makes him/her more likely to aggressively investigate a suspicious death, I'm all for it.

Call the reporter and tell him what you heard over the scanner, and what the hospital people told you.  If you can give him information that will help him identify which hospital person, he can get it firsthand while promising the source anonymity.

Call the news tipline.  It will be *somewhere* in the paper.  Or call 411, ask for the paper's offices by name, and once they put you through to the main number, ask for the number of the news tip line.

Trained reporters can find out more about this than you can, and this is *big news*.  The old saying in reporting, "If it bleeds, it leads" applies.

Now, for all I know, *if* there's a dead kid, he could have died of anything---I don't know you (and I mean no offense by saying so).  The stuff a reporter tracks down will have credibility, because the reporter will be able to verify that there was a death, that there was a 911 call, that there were emergency personnel (cops, emts, whatever) who responded, that there is a body, etc.

If you care enough to post to Fornits, care enough to call 411 for the paper's phone number, get their tip line number, and tell a reporter what you heard on the scanner and why you're concerned.

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: cherish wisdom on November 11, 2004, 03:53:00 PM

It sounds like there are people out there who know what happened. I agree that those who know need to expose what they know to the media. It is the only way to light a fire under the authorities who often do little to nothing for political and economic reasons.  

Waiting five minutes is too long. Why the bruising? Obviously this child was beaten. Many children die in the first week of "therapy." I know my own child was lucky to be alive after being dog-piled by seven adults. She nearly died from asphyxiation. Something more needs to be done to expose this.  People who work for these facilities need to stop acting like the Nazi Nurses in World War II who looked the other way or assisted with the murder of thousands of mentally ill and infirm patients.  This is outrageous and more will die if something isn't done to stop this.[ This Message was edited by: cherish wisdom on 2004-11-11 12:54 ][ This Message was edited by: cherish wisdom on 2004-11-11 12:55 ]

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2004, 08:25:00 PM

Tim
As I said before call the Caldwell County Sherriffs Dept,  they will tell basics.  Nobody will release any information.  I have done all those things you suggested already so far I was told the St. Joe News Press wrote an article about it today.  I sent emails to 7 major tele. news stations and 3 major papers in the area, and Im working and the locals now.  I am doing my best but right now it seems as if no one cares or that the money is just to good to care. :evil:  :evil:  :evil:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: cherish wisdom on November 11, 2004, 10:56:00 PM

It looks like you have done all that you can. No one can be expected to do more.  Good effort! :nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:

A free man must be able to endure it when his fellow men act and live otherwise than he considers proper. He must free himself from the habit, just as soon as something does not please him, of calling for the police.
Ludwig Von Mises

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2004, 11:04:00 PM

UPDATE:  I have been told that they have had it on the radio all day and that a Kansas City station I believe channel 5 had done a report on it early this morning or late last night.  People are hopefully beginning to listen.  I am still working on contacting more reporters and will continue till we shut these F*ckers down.  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :mad:  :mad:  :mad:  :sad:  :sad:  :sad:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 12, 2004, 07:41:00 PM

I worked at Thayer...I KNOW what terrible people the Bundys are, and how horrible the program really is..Abuse reports were made, ignored...they seem to have the authorities in their pocket....shameful

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 12, 2004, 08:59:00 PM

what is ya nmae???i might know u, iwas there from march 2003-september 2003.my name is jose grundler.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on November 12, 2004, 09:07:00 PM

All ye who know something, pile on, pile on! Nothing gets the attention of the media better than numerous contacts. Even if all you have to tell them is about a similarly run place or one w/ staff/ownership connections, tell them.

After 30 years of expansion in the industry, I cannot believe this is anything but a broad appeal story. We just have to connect w/ each other.

Pile on!

History gives us a kind of chart, and we dare not surrender even a small rushlight in the darkness. The hasty reformer who does not remember the past will find himself condemned to repeat it.
--John Buchan

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Watchaduen on November 13, 2004, 10:54:00 AM

All ye who know something, pile on, pile on! Nothing gets the attention of the media better than numerous contacts. Even if all you have to tell them is about a similarly run place or one w/ staff/ownership connections, tell them.>>>

I had e-mailed this editor of the St. Louis paper a week ago sending him a copy of the Federal Lawsuit against Bethel Boys Academy.  He e-mailed back saying he would contact me if he was interested in doing a story.  Thayer is exactly like Bethel Boys Academy.  A boot camp full of beatings, tortures, deprivations, censorship and no education (until they feel you have earned it).  I see a direct correlation here.  I wish he did also.
I just posted recently that it seemed like someone was going to have to lose their life to bring justice.  This poor child is dead and in the end, no one is going to care.  Breaks my heart.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: cherish wisdom on November 13, 2004, 12:23:00 PM

If you saw the abuse as an employee - please report it to the MEDIA now. I've learned the hard way that the media is the only way to light a fire under the police and the authorities.
My guess is that this child died as a result of human restraint and or drugging.  The dog pile technique used often restricts breathing - when it's associate with a chemical restraint of Haldol or Thorazine the results can be deadly. The public deserves to know what happened to this child.  Search "deadly restraint" for more information on this.  Once again, I'd like to appeal to the nurses and other professionals to come forward and expose what happened. I know they are telling you not to.  Please do so annonymously.  Quit if need be.[ This Message was edited by: cherish wisdom on 2004-11-13 09:23 ]

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 13, 2004, 01:04:00 PM

Update.

Link to story online.

http://www.kctv5.com/Global/story.asp?S=2549570 (http://www.kctv5.com/Global/story.asp?S=2549570)

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 14, 2004, 11:09:00 AM

Take a Look at this site!!!

http://www.fuuse.com/article.php?story= ... 1013232648 (http://www.fuuse.com/article.php?story=20040911013232648)

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 14, 2004, 11:13:00 AM

Take a look at this site also!!!!  
Find out what you can do!!!!

http://www.earthrainbownetwork.com/Arch ... nGulag.htm (http://www.earthrainbownetwork.com/Archives2004/ChildrenGulag.htm)

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 14, 2004, 11:35:00 AM

Found another. . .
http://www.heal-online.org/childtorture ... missouri25 (http://www.heal-online.org/childtortureusa.htm#missouri25)

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 14, 2004, 05:42:00 PM

No one going to care since it was an African American/Hispanic boy.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Watchaduen on November 15, 2004, 12:17:00 PM

I beg to differ with you.  No one is going to care because this was a last resort troubled kid.  One step away from prison or worse yet, death.   {{{{{sarcasm dripping everywhere}}}

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 18, 2004, 01:09:00 PM

I attended thayer from January to August of last year and have been talking to diffrent agencys for a while now along with my parents. This must end NOW. Contact me for any questions on Thayer directly at [email protected]  
People are dying now, its time to speak up
- Brittany

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 18, 2004, 08:00:00 PM

Yes it is time to speak up and you should do so.  A policy of silence is what is keeping these programs strong.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 18, 2004, 08:13:00 PM

the kids dont even know whats going on they have no computer idiot you couldnt take 10 minutes of this place i was there for  six months and i saw kids get poured bleach on you narrow minded moron   TANT

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Nihilanthic on November 18, 2004, 09:08:00 PM

Bleached poured on them? Holy crap :eek:

Our Bible reveals to us the character of our god with minute and remorseless exactness... It is perhaps the most damnatory biography that exists in print anywhere. It makes Nero an angel of light and leading by contrast.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 19, 2004, 10:14:00 AM

There have been several papers and TV stations that have written articles and reported about the incident, but the way the school is replying is by giving written statements from former students who are "doing good",  these are written statement from parents and kids who had recently left the program, some of them are a year or more old.  They were written by the parents right before the kid left and soon after they came home.  I would like for some of these "happy people" come forward to talk live to some of these reporters"  I know that Willa and John have these kid write about the program while they are there and then they use it as success stories or they call and ask the parents to write something right after the kid gets home. . . WELL DUH of course this kids are gonna be wonderful for awhile who the hell would be stupid enough to act out.  I would like to find out how most of these kids are really doing 6 month or a year after, and if they really and truly felt like the program did them good or if they just learned how work their parents better.  I have found from talking to several of the kids that were there, that the only thing they learned was how to work the system.  They learned how and what to say, but not necessarily doing what they say.  They learned that trick from John and Willa Bundy, that is a guarantee. :flame:  :flame:  :flame:  :sad:  :sad:  :sad:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: finlyrite on November 19, 2004, 12:34:00 PM

I hope the State of Missouri will finally shut down this place.  They had comlaints over a year ago, after I had enrolled my son and pulled him out.  It is my opinion from my past experience with the Bundy's, they are liars, thieves and manipulators.  The State of Missouri DFS has had MANY complaints from parents, but Thayer's enrollment has continued to grow since the information is not out there for the public to see.  The State of Missouri has done NOTHING to stop this down.  My complaints of consumer fraud on behalf of the Bundy's seem to be without merit according to the State of Missouri.  Now they have a dead child on their hands!!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 19, 2004, 02:15:00 PM

I know for a FACT there were complaints filed because while I was attending the school The police took a abuse statement from me and did NOTHING about it, now they have a death on there hands to deal with, hope the money they got payed off was worth it

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 19, 2004, 06:37:00 PM

The police rarely do anything about these programs because they do not value the children in them.  To them - they are worthless.
They are not of course - but the police have no regard for them and only seriously do something when and if someone dies.  Abuse is part of the program and the authorities look the other way. The facility provides jobs after all.   :smokin:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 20, 2004, 01:25:00 AM

the kids dont even know whats going on they have no computer idiot you couldnt take 10 minutes of this place i was there for six months and i saw kids get poured bleach on you narrow minded moron TANT


are u colton tant?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 20, 2004, 11:48:00 AM

I went to thayer- saw things, was brought to the caldwell county sheriffs department- and completely ignored except for the doctor who I was brought to stating abuse. What we have to do to get attention on this issue is get together (those who actually witnessed/exp. abuse) and go to larger media. Currently I have caught up with a few past employees, students ect. with a plan to act on this. Like I have stated before-kids are dying now, we have no choice but to speak out NOW. If you have any questions you can reach me at [email protected]

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: nite owl on November 20, 2004, 04:26:00 PM

A doctor I know said that the media is the only way to go.  When the authorities don't act and when the government doesn't act then the people must through any means available.  [ This Message was edited by: nite owl on 2004-11-20 13:26 ]

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 22, 2004, 02:10:00 PM

Thayer is an excellent program!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 22, 2004, 02:44:00 PM

Quote

On 2004-11-22 11:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Thayer is an excellent program!"

... for killing people!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 22, 2004, 03:20:00 PM

And how would you know anything about thayer?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 22, 2004, 03:27:00 PM

did you graduate the program? if not, why did you leave early?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 22, 2004, 06:41:00 PM

Speak out now!!! Anyone having any information about Thayer Learning Center PLEASE CALL, 1 (800)632-4747 or 1 (660)632-4747. We all need to ban together to stop these crazy people from ruining our community and our childrens lives. Please CALL!!! :flame:  :flame:  :flame:  :mad:  :mad:  :mad:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 23, 2004, 04:37:00 AM

Quote

On 2004-11-22 12:20:00, Anonymous wrote:

"And how would you know anything about thayer?"

Quote

On 2004-11-22 12:27:00, Anonymous wrote:

"did you graduate the program? if not, why did you leave early?"

A kid is dead.  What else do you need to know?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 23, 2004, 02:36:00 PM

I am probably one of the only employees that left Thayer.  No, I wasn't fired, I was even asked to return.  
However, I will never return.  Thayer is not a great program and something has to be done to shut them down.  
I can't actually say I saw abbuse, but I call neglect abuse.  Neglect weither is was medically or just plain ignoring a kid.  I never saw anyone physically hit a kid or anything like that, but the lies told by the Bundy were crazy, on going, never ending.
When I first started working at Thayer, I did if for the money and I thought it was very interesting and delt with kids, so I loved it.  The part I didn't love was the dishonesty from the owners and the fact no one was ever on the same page.  
I worked at Thayer for the money while I was going to college and I realize now that I could have lowered myself to being a stripper and felt better about myself.  
I have never been treated with such disrespect in a job and I have never been asked to do such things as, hand out medications, or scream at kids.  I was known as a soft sargent one who let the kids get away with stuff and maybe that was a little true.
All I know is that I have compassion for children. I realize why they are their, but what the Bundys don't realize, is that they aren't better than anyone else.  Everyone is equal in God's eyes.  Everyone sins and everyone can ask for the same forgiveness.  
I feel like I want to stand up and talk about Thayer, tell the authorities what I know, but in the back of my mind I fear the Bundy's will hunt me down and try to slap a lawsuit on me for talking about anyting at all.  
The Bundys are know for that.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 24, 2004, 12:54:00 PM

How were you disrespected?I'm interested, because this is coming from a former employee.I assume you were disrespected sexually(assuming you are a female), as you said you would rather strip than work at Thayer.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 24, 2004, 01:42:00 PM

No I believe what she meant was she would feel better about herself working as stripper than she did working in a place that destroys childrens lives when it is suppose to help them.  At least as a stripper she people would be aware that she was doing something that most would not approve of instead of being deceitful and lying about it.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 29, 2004, 01:12:00 PM

Thanks for clearning that up for me.  I am glad someone knows what Thayer is really like.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: AwesomeAlicia on November 30, 2004, 04:39:00 PM

I honestly think that they would not hurt someone on purpose. I went there for a year and almost 1/2. They are awsome people. They will surely be the most remembered by me. They changed my life completely around! Noone eles could do that for me at least.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 01, 2004, 10:43:00 AM

That sounds a lot like a commercial.

I mean, we're on the internet and without verifiable information (which few people give for obvious reasons of personal privacy and safety) we don't know who the other people we talk to really are.

We don't know if you're one of the Bundies, or a friend or relative of theirs, or someone with a financial interest, or a kid still there logging in from there at their behest, or a kid who was a student there but is still underage and afraid of going back, or a kid who just got out six months ago and hasn't detoxed from the over-controlled environment yet.

We *do* know a kid died and they didn't call the ambulance for five minutes.

Maybe there's a good reason for that---like he was outside and it took awhile for help to get to a phone.

Maybe there's not.

One thing we *do* know is that the Bundies have a financial interest in looking good---which means when a basically anonymous person posts uncritical praise in a thread like this, it's not automatically not credible, but it *does* need to be taken with a certain grain of salt.

One of the things that might help readers tell how big or little that grain of salt needs to be would be if you could tall us a bit more about yourself.

How old are you, how long have you been out, what are you doing with your life now, etc.

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 01, 2004, 01:31:00 PM

Obviously no every child is abused in these facilities. Some fall into the conditioning while others fight it.   Those who go along with the reprograming seem to have a better opinion of the program.  We really need to admit that the programs can help some children - but not most.  Those who buck the system are often the ones who suffer the most abuse and maltreatment.  Honesty isn't the best policy when it comes to youth treatment.   :cry:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 01, 2004, 01:49:00 PM

***We really need to admit that the programs can help some children - but not most.

No, we don't need to 'admit' that. There are kids who can be intimidated by fear and some who can't. Does that mean the program 'helped' those who are more vulnerable to conditioning? That it 'helped' those who went in with a weaker will than others? I don't think so.  :roll:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 02, 2004, 06:07:00 AM

It's Bundy's not Bundies, get it right bitches!~Willa

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: AwesomeAlicia on December 02, 2004, 10:43:00 AM

I don't believe that the Bundy's are trying to hurt anyone. As for me, i was a student there, they gave me hope and taught me how to live without the things that i did, i was horrible. Now i am doing just fine. And Mr. Banks is also awesome. He has known me for quite sometime. He's the one who got me transfered to TLC. It was the best experience of my life. Unfortunitely i did not graduate but i would go back. Maybe even as a Sergeant. I promise you they are wonderful people. They are awesome!!!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: AwesomeAlicia on December 02, 2004, 10:47:00 AM

I am 16. I have been out for over 3 months. And i am doing wonderful. I miss TLC though. I wish i could talk to someone who actually knows stuff that i do! Do you? Did you go to TLC? :question:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 02, 2004, 01:02:00 PM

Actually, Bundy's is referring to a singular person possesive noun.  

If you were speaking of multiple Bundys possessing something, it would be Bundys'.  

Bundys implies no possesion, but more than one person.

Obviously Thayer didn't do a good job schooling its (yes, without an apostrophe) students.

Ha!  :silly:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: AwesomeAlicia on December 02, 2004, 01:30:00 PM

Maybe... It is Bundys. But you are really missing the point aren't you? Well, that really says something! :roll:  :em:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 02, 2004, 05:05:00 PM

I have been informed that one of the reasons for the death of this young boy was from a broken collar bone that had pinch a main artery, and that there was other things involved but could not be disclosed yet.  If all this is true than we need to do something about these people. :flame:  :flame:  :flame:  :mad:  :mad:  :mad:  :sad:  :sad:  :sad:  :sad:  :sad:  :sad:  :sad:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 02, 2004, 07:05:00 PM

Quote

On 2004-12-02 07:47:00, AwesomeAlicia wrote:

"I am 16. I have been out for over 3 months. And i am doing wonderful. I miss TLC though. I wish i could talk to someone who actually knows stuff that i do! Do you? Did you go to TLC? :question:   "

Why is it that the only people we get who got sent to a program that praise the programs are people who have been out for less than five years or work for a program as staff?

If you didn't say you were doing wonderfully and would be happy to go back and talk about how wonderful they are---you might get sent back.  Because you're still a minor.

It's okay.  We've talked to a lot of adults who got sent to programs as teens who, while they were in the program or at home and still minors, talked up how good the program was and how it had "turned them around."  We've talked to a lot of adults who  on some level really believed it, too---until they got to be legal adults and couldn't be sent back and started coping with the PTSD.

Maybe you're for real.  More likely you're saying what's expected of you to keep from getting sent back.

If I'm wrong about that, come back in five years and tell me I was wrong.  I won't believe you now, but as long as you're not staff somewhere I will believe what you say then about your experiences at Thayer---whatever it is that you feel the need to say then, good or bad.

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: cherish wisdom on December 02, 2004, 10:27:00 PM

Broken bones and lack of treatment are part of the problem with this industry. Like I've said many times before - the children in these programs are treated worse than dogs.  They are treated with harshness and contempt.  This boy probably had his clavical broken in a take down and went without treatment.  This happens all of the time.  They don't want to take the children to the emergency room because the broken bones are a red flag for abuse and need to be reported to CPS and the authorities.  

When an innocent Californian millionaire gets killed by a drug squad
trying to seize his house with a bogus search warrant, people better ask themselves if they really want to turn their cops into money-makers.
--Vancouver Police Const. Gil Puder

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2004, 01:49:00 PM

"Maybe... It is Bundys. But you are really missing the point aren't you? Well, that really says something! "  

I'm not missing the point, I'm making one.  Not only are the kids physically abused they are also mentally abused.  The education system at TLC is aweful.  I know...I worked there for a very, very short time.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2004, 01:54:00 PM

I heard the same thing.  Something about a broken collar bone that somehow caused an aneurysm.  Although this is hearsay, it could possibly be true.  The autopsy won't be released to the public because the child was a minor and medical records are private.  Does anyone know how we can verify the cause of death?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: BuzzKill on December 03, 2004, 03:50:00 PM

If this is true; then surely there will be charges filed. Surely.
And if so, there may be a trial.
If so, they will surely indtroduce the coroners findings.
Trials are public events.
If this is true - surely it will be known.
If true, there needs to be a demanding that it be made known.

Even apart from a trial, maynbe there will be a coroners hearing. I seem to recall people can attend those.

I would think, if this is true, the family would be shouting about it; making it known to who ever will listen.

Anybody know who they are?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Cleopatra2U on December 03, 2004, 05:04:00 PM

Quote

On 2004-12-02 16:05:00, Timoclea wrote:

"Why is it that the only people we get who got sent to a program that praise the programs are people who have been out for less than five years or work for a program as staff?"

That is easy: it takes a while for the brainwashing to wear off.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Watchaduen on December 03, 2004, 06:19:00 PM

If this is true; then surely there will be charges filed. Surely.
And if so, there may be a trial.>>>

Why do you say that?  Seems to me this is already in the process of being covered up.  This rotten, out of control teen tried to fight the drill instructor.  They then had the right to slam him to the ground and restrain him.  It is very unfortunate that his collar bone was broken.  And very much a freak accident that caused the anuerism to burst.
Makes me sick, but I can hear it now.
Just recently a new victim was rescued from Bethel Boys Academy *unannounced*.  He had been sick for weeks yet still forced to exercise all day long, starved, you get the picture.  When the Mom got him she rushed him to the ER where he was admitted.
Bethel was questioned by the state over that.  Guess what????  Many other boys and employees witnessed this boy "making" himself throw up all the time.  He wasn't really sick.
This boy was about dead from dehydration, bacterial & staph infection.  Immediately it was covered up.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 04, 2004, 05:56:00 PM

Most positive that this could be covered up as in nothing ever happened IF the media doesn't get involved. But I know of a few good people who will make sure nothing of this matter would happen.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: cherish wisdom on December 05, 2004, 12:07:00 AM

The more abusive teen programs frequently deprive injured and sick children of proper medical care because they do not want the outside medical professionals to report the signs of child abuse and neglect to the authorities. This happens frequently. Apparently this boy had his clavical fractured sometime during his week-long stay. It was probably broken in a take down.  A take down involves all available staff.  Up to seven adults will throw a child to the ground and hold them down.  When this happened to my own child she remembers a staff member start to cry and say, "if I hold her down any harder I'll break her arm."  She did see a girl with a broken nose from having her face slammed on the floor in a take down.
Restraint can be deadly and it is used far to frequently for punishment when teens are involved.

say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile.
--Kurt Vonnegut, American author

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 05, 2004, 09:57:00 AM

Quote

On 2004-12-02 03:07:00, Anonymous wrote:

" It's Bundy's not Bundies, get it right bitches!~Willa"

Gee, I do so hope its really you.  Thanks for dropping by our little forum during what must be a very stressful, busy time.  Tell me, Willa, does it get easier, over time, to abuse these children?  Have you lost any sleep over the child who died in your charge?  Do you get the same sick pleasure from watching children eat their own vomit as does Sgt. Pikula?  And the thrill of dragging exhausted, frightened children from their comfy, cozy piece of concrete at 2AM for a little moonburn!  All of this sadistic pleasure and half a million $ a month.  Life is good ey? :flame:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 05, 2004, 11:17:00 AM

If it really is Willa, doesn't she remind you of Scott Peterson?  I mean, a kid just *died* in their care and all she can do is natter on calling the people here "bitches" and more or less saying nyah, nyah, you can't shut us down because we've done nothing wrong....

A kid just ***died***!

No remorse?  

No regret?

Any *normal* human being with a full set of feelings and empathy would be floored with the sheer *pain* of having a kid die under their care, would be overwhelmingly sobered and solemn, would be prey to a good bit of self-doubt.  Would welcome an investigation to clarify what was done and what was not done and why the kid died so they could take their lumps if they had 'em coming and if not, could improve their procedures so nothing like that *ever* happened again......

Willa (if it's her) talks about "bitches" and "nothing wrong."

Whoever made those posts is either some juvenile personality too far from the death to care, yanking our chain and trolling for flames, OR someone with a sociopathic-level lack of human empathy for the dead kid.

Hey, poster with the scanner that reported this to the media?  Forward the URL and thread information to the police and the DA in the area.  Really.  Please.

Because if it really is someone from Thayer that posted that, the demeanor in talking about the incident could well be important evidence in a criminal prosecution.  I'm serious as a heart attack about that.  I'm not being inflammatory or trying to score off debate points---for real, if it's someone from Thayer, it's evidence.

I know it says "Anonymous" here on the board, but nothing's really anonymous on the internet.  The police or DA can get a subpoena and use some of the information on Ginger's systems and the ISPs serving the personnel at Thayer to verify exactly whose account posted the statements.  They're evidence.

But the police and DA can't use them if they don't know they exist.  So if you want to see this thoroughly and properly investigated, and prosecuted if appropriate, ***DO*** forward the information to the police and the DA's office.

That someone who claims to have been heavily involved with the school where the death occurred appears remarkably callous to it and unbroken up by it is *huge*---so please, please make sure the police and DA know it's here.

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: BuzzKill on December 05, 2004, 12:26:00 PM

I agree Timoclea.
If its her, its huge.

I also wondered if the officials in Costa Rica might be interested in Narvin's spin and weave.
I think it significant he avoided answering direct questions, after showing up here and offering info.

If the moderator wants the address for an English speaking prosecutor in Costa Rica, I can provide one.
 ::bandit::

*[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2004-12-05 09:28 ]

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 05, 2004, 02:52:00 PM

http://www.kq2.com/news/default.asp?mod ... ws&id=1333 (http://www.kq2.com/news/default.asp?mode=shownews&id=1333)
Thayer Learning Center, the military-style boot camp school in Kidder, Missouri has responded to our questions about a 15-year old`s death in a non-specific way. The center has sent us a seven-page fax, most of which is testimonials from parents and ex-students who speak positively about the school with statements like, "Before I came to TLC I was cutting school, I eventually dropped out and I was using drugs and alcohol...TLC has given me focus and has given me a chance that I really do not deserve." "Before I came to TLC I was a complete wreck...I am pleased to know that I have a successful future ahead of me." The center itself says, among other statements, "We are under continued scrutiny by local police authorities as well as other state agencies who frequent our facility often and have done so for the past two-and-a-half years and found any and all allegations unsubstantiated or unfounded." The school also says it would not be allowed to continue if it used excessive force and was abusive.

http://apps.northwestmissouri.com/Clien ... ubcode=HMA (http://apps.northwestmissouri.com/ClientServices/DisplayNews.asp?showfilename=64985&pubcode=HMA)
A child fatality review board has been activated and a state STAT team has visited Caldwell County twice in recent days in the wake of the death of a 15-year-old male who was a student at Thayer Learning Center in Kidder. The student died Wednesday night after reportedly being in sick bay for a few days complaining of sore hands and feet.
Caldwell County Coroner Gary Brown reported an autopsy was done on Thursday and the matter is still under investigation. A child fatality review is mandatory procedure in the death of any minor.
Jerry Banks, school manager, said the center is waiting for the medical examiner's report. "Our condolences go to the family. We don't have enough information at this time to release anything else." The school was not able to release the name of the student.

http://www.childcustody.org/custparent/ ... 000292.htm (http://www.childcustody.org/custparent/_disc112/00000292.htm)
Parents who have direct experience with TLC might want to respond to this message @ childcustody.org

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 05, 2004, 10:08:00 PM

How do we know if this web site is for real?  Maybe you are angry people who worked at the school and got fired for mis treating the children. Honestly, it would make since for the people who have been fired to want revenge on the school.  These people could be lying????????
How do we know???????

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 06, 2004, 12:28:00 AM

This website is not real, your entry was just as unreal as all the rest.  How dim witted can a person be?  This is an open forum on the internet.  Anyone, including you, can make a post, true or not.  If your question is "Did a child really die at Thayer?" the answer is yes, it is well documented by a number of sources, up to and including a number of state agencies.  Is the anger real?  You betcha.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 06, 2004, 02:20:00 PM

Thank you Alicia!

You are speaking truth and sharing an honest testimony.

TLC Huh!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 06, 2004, 07:39:00 PM

Quote

On 2004-12-06 11:20:00, Anonymous wrote:





TLC Huh!"

lol

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2004, 09:35:00 AM

Give me a break.  So everyone here is I guess must not be telling the truth?!?!  Alicia(or whatever her name is) great if you are doing better that is fantastic, BUT i guarantee, that the program had nothing to do with your changes, you made those changes on your own.  That program did not change you, you made the choice to change yourself and these people taking credit for that is  BULLSHIT!!!! ::soapbox::  How dare them to think they are capable of doing that, the only thing they have proven over and over to be capable of is torture, abuse, neglect, and murder!!! The very few kids that do make it through unharmed and "changed" made the choice and did it themselves.  Programs do not change you, you change you.  And don't ever forget it.  ::rocker::

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2004, 09:41:00 AM

KIDS DON'T KILL KIDS, JOHN AND WILLA BUNDY KILL KIDS!!!!!!!! ::smokingun::  ::bangin::

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2004, 10:58:00 AM

ask about the sandbag

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2004, 11:57:00 AM

I know all about the sandbags and the door handles and all the other retarded stuff, that is done there. :silly:   I mean lets be real :wink:  the WWASP program, I mean "WILLA's program" is great, if you are into sadistic, S&M shit.  These people are sick, all of them.  Though I will catch alot of shit for this comment,  our communities are being taken over by these sick sick mormons.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: AwesomeAlicia on December 07, 2004, 03:01:00 PM

Hey! Who said something about ALICIA? That's Cadet Jones to you. LOL! I want to know who you are!     ? OR guy?  :silly:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: AwesomeAlicia on December 07, 2004, 03:03:00 PM

Hey i know about the sandbags. To bad i never had to carry one! But my twin did!LOL!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: AwesomeAlicia on December 07, 2004, 03:12:00 PM

Jose Grundler???? I remember you. Boyd and i chatted quite alot about you....... Good stuff though. I didn't graduate but i am home now. I went toi tlc for 1 1/2 years! Crazy huh? I learned alot though. It was a great experience for me.....

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: eyecandy on December 08, 2004, 01:17:00 AM

if gabriel guevara reads this....he needs to email me asap!! i REALLY WANT to talk to him :exclaim:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2004, 02:13:00 AM

i was there when this boy died...he was about 15...his name was cadet reyes...he was hispanic...bigger than sgt pikula...he would get taken down alot...tha rumored reason for why he died was because he was a hardcore alcoholic...common knowledge to TLC staff and was going thru severe alcohol withdrawalz.... i can tell more if anyone wants to knoe...otherwise...hit me back on tha post

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2004, 10:30:00 AM

The boy was 14 yrs. old, he would have to have many, many more years of drinking before the alcohol could cause that bad of a problem.  I think you hit on the head, he was a big boy who was taken down alot.  Sounds like he probably did have a broken collar bone than pitched a main artery, that is what caused him to die not alcohol withdrawl.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Deborah on December 08, 2004, 01:58:00 PM

If this is accurate, it proves the point again that programs too often do not have adequate methods and techniques for dealing with withdrawal or anger in general.

My son attended a rehab where there were people w/ding from hard core drugs, as well as alcohol.  NO restraint was necessary. Ever. Why?

There are many reasons, but primarily it was because they treated the particpants with respect. They had methods and procedures to lessen withdrawal symptoms. In a nutshell, they knew their stuff.

These programs are not equipped to deal with this. And on top of that, their methods and procedures only further aggitate the kid who is withdrawing... whether from drugs or from being isolated from the world with sadistic 'caretakers'. When they kill a kid with their ignorance, they try to blame the kid for his/her own death. Kids, nor adults for that matter, who are withdrawing do not need punishment. It is the anthithesis of what the person needs.

This is an outrage. After three years of observing the abuse and ignorance inherent to this industry I continue to feel frustrated and angered that they are allow to continue to operate. It absolutely makes no sense to any rational person.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: AwesomeAlicia on December 08, 2004, 02:56:00 PM

I wasn't there for reyes but i am sorry to hear that it was him, i was hoping it was someone that i knew.

Who's looking for Guevera???? It's not me, i am cadet jones, i believe Guevara is still at TLC, when i left he was in Junior Staff, but he may have graduated!!

Does anyone know Boyd? Wilkes? Dahlman? Just wondering, cuz it'd be cool to talk to them. Also The Bundys, i can't get ahold of them.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: AwesomeAlicia on December 08, 2004, 03:08:00 PM

Is anyone on right now? I'd like to talk more but noone seems to be on when i am!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: eyecandy on December 08, 2004, 03:44:00 PM

im on alicia....r u still on? :question:  :question:  :question:

If it is believed that... elementary schools will be better managed by the governor and council, the commissioners of the literary fund or any other general authority of the government than by the parents within each ward, it is a belief against all experience.
Thomas Jefferson

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: AwesomeAlicia on December 08, 2004, 03:47:00 PM

Yes... Who are u?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: AwesomeAlicia on December 08, 2004, 03:49:00 PM

email me at [email protected] to talk more

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2004, 05:08:00 PM

Wilkes?the blond white kid who scraped himself with a fork?Dahlman the blong white kid who stuck a toothbrush up Sak's  behind  :eek:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: AwesomeAlicia on December 08, 2004, 06:15:00 PM

Yes.... I want to talk and see how they are doing!!!!
You know them???? Who are you???? Tell me please!!!
Cadet......

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2004, 04:41:00 PM

I would love to hear more of your story about Cadet Reyes.  
Please call 816-671-9662.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: AwesomeAlicia on December 09, 2004, 06:04:00 PM

Okay..
I have a few things to say. I believe that tlc is a great program but a few changes should be made. I also want to say that it is time for me to move on with my life I am no longer going to have an email because i am obsessing over every thing that is happening at TLC. I really have other things to worry about. I want to tell you all that, and all the cadets and employees, you all are awesome and I wish you all luck in your life. I am sorry about this. I got way out of hand. I miss you all but like i said it's time to move on and think about my future!!!
I love you all!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2004, 11:19:00 PM

haha, the program is shit. enough said.  Morals really don't matter to these people- it is a buisness after all.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2004, 05:53:00 AM

That is such bullshit.  Were in the hell would that type of spider come from?  He was a big boy from what I have been told and in Missouri we don't really have spiders that can do that.  A small child maybe, but it would take along time for a large young adult or adult to die from a bite at the poisonous spiders here in Missouri.  I smell Payoff.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2004, 09:11:00 AM

Let me add one more thing to this, if he did die from a spider bite he would have had a very high fever and pain for days before it would have killed him.  They are still responsible!!!!!  But I still feel Payoff is more likely.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: XoOoJadeoOoX on December 10, 2004, 03:20:00 PM

hmm.. a spider bite? thats what caused the bruises? i can't believe this

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2004, 04:22:00 PM

Can someone point me to the message or article that stated it was due to a spider bite. Who suggested this? I can't find it in this thread.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2004, 06:17:00 PM

It was on the Channel 2 news lastnight.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2004, 08:20:00 PM

Is there a link to an article. Who determined it to be a spider bite?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2004, 09:40:00 PM

Quote

On 2004-12-10 02:53:00, Anonymous wrote:

"That is such bullshit.  Were in the hell would that type of spider come from?  He was a big boy from what I have been told and in Missouri we don't really have spiders that can do that.  A small child maybe, but it would take along time for a large young adult or adult to die from a bite at the poisonous spiders here in Missouri.  I smell Payoff."

The deadly brown recluse spider is in Missouri and does cause death if misdiagnosed.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2004, 09:45:00 PM

http://fallenearth.org/blogs/juliebutte ... 05212.html (http://fallenearth.org/blogs/juliebuttercup/archives/005212.html)

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2004, 10:16:00 PM

:roll:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 11, 2004, 09:53:00 AM

yes if misdiagnosed, but to be misdiagnosed that means you would have had to have gone to the hospital or doctor or something to be diagnosed. . . RIGHT!!!  Obviously he was not taken and a misdiagnosis of brown recluse would make the doctor a moron since the skin begins to rot away.  And in Missouri mostly elderly and very, very small children die of spider bites but even then it is very very rare!!!!!!!  And this boy was not small from I have been told.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 11, 2004, 10:22:00 AM

We have recluses here in Tx. I was bitten on the arm. While I didn't know when it happened, I developed flu-like symptoms within a day or two. While I was recouperating from the 'flu' I noticed the bite, because it itched like hell. It was very obviously something unusual so I went to the doctor who confirmed it was a recluse bite. I chose to go with non-traditional treatment and it healed nicely with no surgery necessary. Never got larger than a pea.

Couple of years later a friend thought he had a boil on his back, next to his spine. I looked at it and told him that it looked like a recluse bite. He confirmed this with his doctor and then treated it as I had mine.

My daughter's hairdresser was biten numerous times on the back. Was very ill for a long time. Was hospitalized in the process, but recovered.

The most bizarre story is one of an acquaintence who was bitten on the calf of his leg. Ignored it until it was rather large. He was hospitalized and tissue was removed. While hospitalized he picked up some kind of infection in the site (can't remember the name) but it's resistent to bleach, and apparently only found in hospitals. Anyway, he had a 13 year battle with this and is just now healing. After exhausting what the medical est. had to offer he finally resorted to alternatives. The wound wraps around his leg. For the first time in 13 years the wound bleeds, therefore grafting is now possible. Looks like he will avoid amputation.

The bite is worse if it occurs in a fleshy area.

All this to say, you know when you've been biten. You can't deny it, the itching, pain, or flu-like symptoms. And if it's treated early its not a big deal. I have NEVER heard of anyone dying from a recluse bite that quickly. Nor a black widow. How many other venomous spiders are in Mo?

It's very possible that they blew off the 'flu-like' symptoms, and because I know how the industry operates, it wouldn't surprise me if they had him 'working' inspite of his symptoms. IF, big IF, he even had a spider bite to begin with.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: cherish wisdom on December 11, 2004, 10:57:00 AM

Even if it was a spider bite -the boy was not given proper medical care. This is a huge problem in the teen industry. I've spoken to many survivors who had injuries, illnesses, fractures, sprains and a few her had severe side effects from drugging.  Only a few were given proper medical care. One girl indicated that she had to have a friend help her pop her hip back into the socket.  She was also not allowed to have crutches. The staff are so quick to say that the patient is "faking it."  They lack compassion or concern.  If this is true - then the staff litterally let him suffer some terrible pain before dying from this bite.  If true - it is worse that dying from the restraint - because he must have suffered for a long time.
How cruel and inhumane!

If you want a voluntary urine sample from me it'll have to be a taste test.
--Bumper Sticker

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 11, 2004, 12:44:00 PM

I know of two spiders that are venomous to do harm, not kill.  If it does kill usually small children or people who ignore(usually elderly).  I have never really ever heard of anyone every really dying from a spider bite.  I heard of an old man a few years back that did but ignored and somthing freaky happened, I don't think he actually died from the spider bite in the end.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2004, 05:57:00 PM

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascit ... 180.htm?1c (http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/10372180.htm?1c)

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2004, 11:04:00 PM

i will gladly state our experence at thayer. we sent our kid there and pulled him out. they staff lie. period im sure they are doing some terrible things at thayer. my son has plenty of stories.   sad very sad.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2004, 11:50:00 PM

Does anyone have the link to the news article indicating that he died from a spider bite?  It's so outrageous - I hope the family does something.  This facility denied this child of life-saving medical care - a frequent and deadly practice at many teen programs.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 14, 2004, 05:11:00 PM

"i will gladly state our experence at thayer. we sent our kid there and pulled him out"

how long did he stay there?How far along in school did he get?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 16, 2004, 11:02:00 PM

I have a brother at Thayer and i do have to say this is rediculous. I do agree that their deffinatly was some misconduct in this situation. I agree with you, i have never heard of anyone dieing of a spider bite. The worst i have ever seen was from a black widow and they usually leave unmistakable black marks, that a person would have to purposly neglect seeking madical attention for. This situation only accured because of the negligence of the facility. From my understanding this child had died because of spider bite, but clearly the child was looked down upon and was "faking it". I did some resurch on the brown recluse spder and these are some of the things i found.

Abundance of Recluses
One consistent life history characteristic of recluse spiders is that in the right environment their populations are usually dense. Loxosceles reclusa is a common house spider in the midwestern United States. If you find recluses, you do not find one, you find many. Examples for the brown recluse include 9 under a piece of plywood in Oklahoma, 52 in an indoor laboratory, and 6 under a waterbed frame in Arkansas, 150 in a Kansas home, 40 collected in a Missouri barn in 1 hour, and 44 in sticky traps in a Tennessee home in 1 day.

Similarly, for the desert recluse in California, 12 of these spiders were collected under a doghouse in Yucca Valley and six were removed from a cottage bedroom in the Mojave Desert. In a study in Chile, 645 of 2189 homes that were searched contained the South American recluse spider, L. laeta. The five most infested homes averaged 163 spiders each and in none of these houses had spider bites been reported.

Given this information it is clear that the abundance of recluse spiders in the mid west is larg, and with todays technology the possible cures, as you said yourself, are easily abtainable.

Without a doubt in my my mind, if this was truly a spider bite, the child did not die from it. It was a case of unorthodox response to a very serious stimuli, if you will.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 16, 2004, 11:11:00 PM

You who worked at thayer please tell me more about what you have seen in your time their. I am very conceredend. I have a family member their.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 17, 2004, 12:34:00 PM

Watch a video about tlc go to http://www.tlcprogram.com/movies (http://www.tlcprogram.com/movies)

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 17, 2004, 01:22:00 PM

One of my favorite lines from that is:

Quote

"We don't try to figure out why they started doing drugs 5 years ago, we're focusing on why he's disrespecting his mom."

So, to paraphrase, they don't give a shit about any reasons WHY someone might be trying to escape reality or whatever the fuck they want to call it, all they're worried about is disrespecting mom.  That's what parenting is really all about after all, isn't it.  How your child reflects on you, right? ::puke::

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Nihilanthic on December 17, 2004, 05:58:00 PM

Ah, nothing like good confrontational behavior modification as your golden hammer! Afterall, all kids need "IMPACT", right? Better bang that square peg into a round hole!

So, they dont care about actual problems, they dont care about making them REALLY feel good or safe or have 'self esteem' or LOVE, they just care about TOUGH love and breaking the child down into total obedience and submission.

Parents! Come get a stepford child!

Honestly, this kind of treatment belongs in scary movies or clubs for consenting adults, NOT for children. Argh. I'm sure the same parent that would do this to a kid wouldn't let adults have fun that way.

There is not a "fragment" in all nature, for every relative fragment of one thing is a full harmonious unit in itself.
-- John Muir

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 17, 2004, 06:02:00 PM

WOW when was that video shot?I saw alot of familiar faces.I thought Qualiroli(or is that even him) left in October, did he come back?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 20, 2004, 07:49:00 PM

::jawdrop:: WOW!!! I think you people are taking this way out of hand (the kids that attend the program) you sit there and you say this , this and this but where you saying that when you were there? In my personal opion Thayer Learning Center has changed my life and if it wasn't for Mrs. Willa and Mr. Bundy i know that I would not be here today, i would be some where dead in the streets! i have a very good realtionship with my family and i love my life. when you sit there and you talk shit about how bad Thayer Learning Center is, just think about how STUPID you sound and ask your self this: have i really changed my life? ummmmm..... well i cant tell cause you are talking shit about the people who took you in and tryed to help you change you life but by the way you are talking about them i can tell that there help didnt work! your parents must be sooooo pround of you....... NOT! Stop talking shit!I LOVE T.L.C :wink:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 20, 2004, 08:06:00 PM

nO I DIDNT WITNESS I JUST WANTED TO SY HI TO EVEYBODY WHO KNOWS ME AND MY BRO!!! I DONT WANT TO SAY MY NAME BUT OH WELL FUCK IT, HAHA THIS IS BLAIR!! HOLLA AT CHA GIRL! :lol: YALL QUIT BEING SCARED IF YOU WANT TO TALK SHIT LET PEOPLE KNOW WHO YOU ARE BITCHES!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 20, 2004, 08:08:00 PM

Are cadets allowed to masturbate together,or do they have to do it seperately,by themselves?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 20, 2004, 08:12:00 PM

Quote

On 2004-12-20 16:49:00, Anonymous wrote:

if it wasn't for Mrs. Willa and Mr. Bundy i know that I would not be here today, i would be some where dead in the streets!

DEADINSANEORINJAIL...Here we go again.  Is there a tape somewhere that ALL these places use that says this?  We really need to come up with some kind of an FAQ for statements like this.  I really don't have the energy to go over this again.  Anyone else care to take it?

Quote

well i cant tell cause you are talking shit about the people who took you in and tryed to help you change you life

Look, honey, sweetie....do you really believe that they just "took you in and tryed (tried) to help you change your life" out of the goodness of their hearts?  You're really in for a rude awakening when you decide to join the grown up world.  Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the money that your parent/insurance companies were PAYING THEM now couldn it??
 :roll:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 20, 2004, 08:52:00 PM

WHO IS THIS?
 :question:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 20, 2004, 08:54:00 PM

OH BY THE WAY IM NOT YOUR HONEY OR YOUR SWEETIE!
 :wink:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 20, 2004, 08:58:00 PM

Quote

On 2004-12-20 17:52:00, Anonymous wrote:

"WHO IS THIS?

 :question: "

WHO IS THIS :question:  :question: :lol:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 20, 2004, 08:59:00 PM

kATIE

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 21, 2004, 12:30:00 AM

Quote

On 2004-12-20 17:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

"OH BY THE WAY IM NOT YOUR HONEY OR YOUR SWEETIE!

 :wink: "

First of all, chicklet, it would be nice if you'd quit shouting.

Second, when I go on vacation and stay in a hotel, I'm not grateful to the Radisson or the Holiday Inn for "taking me in"---because I'm *paying* for a particular *service*.

Anybody *paid* to take care of children isn't entitled to the children's gratitude, either, because the child is *entitled* to have their basic needs met by their parents or by people their parents pay to do it.

If you think someone paid for goods and services is entitled to gratitude from the customer, and the people who taught you this were the same people being paid for the goods and services---then that's pretty good evidence that at least *part* of what you received was *brain-washing*.

When I stay at the Holiday Inn or Radisson I'm always polite to the other guests and the people who work there----but that's just because they're fellow human beings in the same world I'm in and generally entitled to the human dignity of being treated decently.

They *certainly* don't get any moral brownie points for "taking me in."  And if the accommodations or service is lousy, or great, I *will* tell other prospective customers about it

(If the tone of my writing isn't sweet to you, well, it's at least partly because you're shouting.)

I can't be at all upset with people for saying things about Thayer here that they didn't say while incarcerated there----if you punish or imprison people, or hold them imprisoned longer, for giving you the straight truth on what scum you think they are, then you hardly have any room to complain when they announce to all and sundry their *true* opinion of you once they're out of your grasp.

You know what?  As the unwilling recipients of Thayer's "product," these former inmates have every right to have formed an opinion of Thayer and to announce that opinion to anyone and everyone who'll listen.

The problem with coercion as a strategy for dealing with people is that they tend to hate you once they finally get out from under your thumb, and they tend to avoid you, and as soon as they get away from you they tend to go ahead and do what they wanted to do, anyway.

In a free society, punishment is ultimately only effective as a very short term stopgap between shaping behavior by persuasion, example, encouragement, and learning.  Reward is also a stopgap, but it has less of a downside.

When you punish someone for telling you you're a jerk, all that happens is that they make sure they get away from you before telling *everyone* else what a jerk you are.

If the people at Thayer were as smart as they claim about teaching people to predict the consequences of their choices, maybe they'd choose better, eh?

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 21, 2004, 12:37:00 AM

Quote

On 2004-12-20 21:30:00, Anonymous wrote:


First of all, chicklet,
Timoclea"

chicklet.    :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 21, 2004, 01:28:00 PM

You know Personally I think you guys are spending WAY TOO MUCH TIME on this web site and if you are so worried about this cadet that died and if you are so worried about Mrs. Willa and Mr. Bundy just write back and i would be more than happy to give whoever the number where yall can reach Mrs. Willa at cause i personally think that if you have something to say about someone or something you should be man or woman enough to say it to that persons face! holla at cha girl!  :grin:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 21, 2004, 01:49:00 PM

I agree with you but at the same time i was at thayer for over a year i can say that all this crap that yall are saying is what i said crap, it is all crap so yeah your right you do have a right to say what ever tha heck you want to say , but is it true? who is this that is writing all this crap about Thayer? why dont you come out and tell us who you are cause im sure that i have worked with you before and i am sure that you are taking this way out of hand! oh and by the way NOBODY IS SHOUTING! you dont even know the meaning of that word honey! know what your saying and  than i might think about talking to you! you ( who ever you are) came to Thayer a LOSER and as we can all see you left Thayer a LOSER! Get a life dude for real! ::noway:: yeah and even though they were payed to do what they did, they still tried to help you change your lives and yeah so what if it was just a job to some people! eveybody has to make a living and thats what the people there wanted to do they didnt have to wake up every morning to come to work so why dont yall just quit wasting your time and get over it this is not our battle! oh and by the way this is Blair! im not afrid to let you guys know who this is.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 21, 2004, 01:56:00 PM

First off, ALL CAPS IS SHOUTING.  Second, please try and construct your sentences so that they have regular intervals (i.e. no run-on sentences).  It would make it much[/b] easier to read.

Third...

Teen Dies at School Known for Strict Discipline

http://www.kctv5.com/global/story.asp?s ... Type=Print (http://www.kctv5.com/global/story.asp?s=2549570&ClientType=Print)

KIDDER, Mo. (AP) -- Authorities are investigating the death of a 15-year-old boy at a private, military-style boot camp in this northwest Missouri community.

Jerry Banks, who runs Thayer Learning Center Boot Camp and Boarding School, said the student died Nov. 3, less than a week after enrolling. The student's name was not released.

Banks said the student apparently died of an "unexplained medical condition." Though Thayer students participate in intense physical exercise, Banks said the student was not involved in any physical activity when he died.

Without elaborating, Jeff Alsup -- Caldwell County's chief sheriff's deputy -- said the death was part of an ongoing investigation.

Caldwell County Coroner Gary Brown said Wednesday he still had not received word on any autopsy findings, including preliminary ones about the cause of death.

"There's really nothing we can tell you right now," he said.

Banks said he was unaware of the student having any prior medical conditions that required special attention, and that the student appeared healthy when he enrolled.

"We're cooperating with everyone, because we want the answer, too," he said.

Thayer has more than 100 students, nearly all from outside Missouri, and charges $4,000 a month for tuition and room and board.

Missouri law generally exempts boarding schools from state regulation and oversight, but some schools have had to fight critics who say they excessively discipline students. The schools often attract parents desperate to change their children's drug use, gang activity and violent behavior.

Thayer's Web site bills the boot camp and reform school as "a life-changing experience for teens ages 13-18," a "highly structured" place on roughly 20 acres of farm land 45 miles north of Kansas City.

"We recognize that there is a tremendous need for a positive behavior modification program for troubled teens," the Web site says. "Our boot camp will help them learn the importance of self-respect, respect for others and their property, and positive self esteem through a series of goals they will reach in the program."

"If your teen is doing drugs, defiant, disrespectful, disobedient, abusive, or needs a wake up call to reality, TLC boot camp has an opening just for him or her," the Web site continues. "It's time to stop making all your decisions based on the behavior of your teen. Our efficient drill sergeants are waiting to help put you, the parent, back in command."

This year, two religious reform schools closed following abuse allegations.

In October, Thanks to Calvary Baptist Church and Boarding Academy, near Waynesville about 130 miles southwest of St. Louis, shuttered in the wake of enrollment drops after the school's founder was accused of using excessive discipline against an Illinois teen last year.

In May, Mountain Park Baptist Boarding Academy, in southeast Missouri near Patterson, closed in light of sagging enrollment and a $20,000 jury award to a teenager who claimed mistreatment.

Religious reform school Heartland Christian Academy, in rural northeast Missouri near the Lewis County town of Bethel, has successfully fought allegations of abuse, with charges against the school's employees either being dropped or dismissed by juries. A judge recently awarded $800,000 to Heartland, saying a raid by abuse investigators was unjustified.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 21, 2004, 06:39:00 PM

Folks, remember that this is Christmas vacation time, and the world seems swamped with 13yo's with a computer, no parents at home, way too much time, and way too little education to speak or write coherently.

If these Thayer plaudits (don't worry, our poster doesn't know the meaning of that word) are an example of Thayer's $4000-a-month education, then this "student" really is in for trouble in later life.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 22, 2004, 12:26:00 AM

I'm not going to say what I think of the postings of  the girl who thinks she knows me.  It would be too cruel, even for someone who throws around the word "loser" as though she's actually qualified to pass judgement on other people's lives.

I wonder if Thayer taught her that arrogance, or she learned it at home?

In any case, chick, you don't know me.  You almost certainly have never even met me.  And on a public website that Willa Bundy certainly knows exists, nothing anyone who was actually at Thayer says about them exactly qualifies as "behind her back."

Grow up.

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 22, 2004, 05:00:00 PM

SO QUIT TALKING SHIT YALL ARE LITTLE FUC**** KIDS AND YALL REALLY NEED TO GROW UP AND GET A LIFE, YOU UNEDUCATED KIDS! :mad:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 22, 2004, 05:10:00 PM

Quote

On 2004-12-22 14:00:00, Anonymous wrote:

"SO QUIT TALKING SHIT YALL ARE LITTLE FUC**** KIDS AND YALL REALLY NEED TO GROW UP AND GET A LIFE, YOU UNEDUCATED KIDS! :mad: "

This coming from a, what?....19 year old???  Honey, we've been where you are and THEN some!!!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 22, 2004, 05:37:00 PM

Quote

On 2004-12-22 14:00:00, Anonymous wrote:

"SO QUIT TALKING SHIT YALL ARE LITTLE FUC**** KIDS AND YALL REALLY NEED TO GROW UP AND GET A LIFE, YOU UNEDUCATED KIDS! :mad: "

Wrong again, Shouter.  I'm 37, and a wife and mother, and I'm on here because I work all day at my computer and am working in another window.  And since I'm self-employed (successfully, I might add), I'm the boss.

I graduated with a bachelors degree and an above average GPA from a nationally ranked public university.  I was a database programmer for five years, and now I teach and write (and sell my stuff, which has sold well to the public).

The problem with the "life skills" you say Thayer taught you is that they apparently taught you that the way to win an argument is to shout the other guy down and swear and hurl insults.  Now, there's nothing especially wrong with a little colorful language, and typing in all caps is just rather unattractive.  I'm certainly not above telling people what I think of them now and then.

It would just be nice if in all that hot air you spout there was occasionally an actual *point*.

You *didn't* learn how to get along in life from Thayer, because you clearly still don't know how.  You *could* have presented your point in a way that was a *credit* to your position.  You haven't.  And I'd think that if you knew any better you'd be doing a better job.

So all I can conclude is you *don't* know any better.  

Since you're touting yourself as one of Thayer's success stories, that says that their high school English, History, and Civics classes are lousy---because you should have learned in those classes how to pick a position on some topic and write a couple of paragraphs supporting your position.

You clearly didn't learn how.

If *I* was paying several thousand dollars a month to send my child off to a private school, I'd want stronger academics than that for my money.

You'd probably do a better job if you'd calm down and try to stick to words with a number of letters other than four.

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 22, 2004, 05:40:00 PM

By the way, if you really think the people you're talking to are children, what does it say of your morals that you're swearing at them?

If my daughter said what you did, the way you said it, in public in front of and to other people's children, I'd turn her over my knee.

You kiss your mother with that mouth?

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 22, 2004, 06:08:00 PM

And another thing, Shouter (you've managed to hit my hot buttons)....

As a parent, I teach my child to respect her parents and respect authority *not* to give me some kind of selfish personal ego boost.

I teach my child to treat other people with dignity and respect because I want her to go out into *life* and have cultivated the deeply-ingrained *habit* of treating people that way---whether they have any power over her or not.

I think you're probably still a teenager, and some of the criticisms I could make about your not knowing how to disagree with someone and be angry, and unfriendly, but still be basically civil---some of those criticisms would be too harsh, so I won't do it.

Look, I have a thick skin, I couldn't care less what you say to me.

But for *yourself*----please learn how to be angry, unfriendly, stand up for your point, and still remain civil while doing it.  That's a vital skill for: marriage, dealing with family as a grown child, raising children, dealing with coworkers---you'll need it all your life.  Just as well to start learning it now as later.

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2004, 04:35:00 PM

Thats not my point lady!(or should i say ma'am? cause you know T.L.C thought me better than that!) i could care less what you thought of my poor choice of languge! i am not on here to argue with you, i am just trying to make a point, and my point being is that you have no idea what you are talking about! you have not sent your child to Thayer, right? ok well i am going to let you in on something ok, something that they taught me at Thayer. Dont believe everything you hear, and only half of what you see!you say your 30 something years old right? so why are you on this web site gossiping like a little teenager? i could really care less how you raise your kids, but dont sit over there and tell me "if that were my kid that said that you would ben them over your knee" lady i dont really care how you raise your kid but im going to tell you like this, MY MOMMA DIDNT RAISE A FOOL!! So please keep your partenting tips to your self! is that civil enough for you ma'am? :silly: but than again i dont care what you think! but thanks any way!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2004, 04:39:00 PM

Hey by the way lady, My mom and i have a very good relationship! something that you will maybe not ever know abou cause your too busy on this web site to be spending time with your "wonderful kids!"

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2004, 08:14:00 PM

wow ok so i personally havent met you blair you graduated with sgt. morris right? well i came right after the graduation and i did very well there and was taken out for several reasons. i was there for the death of the boy but didnt know anything of it until i got home.  i was told by cadet williams that you were a pretty good jr. staff but strict and when you came to visit in september i was kinda scared to hear rumors of you coming back as a sgt lol. but the respect you're showing on here you didnt learn from thayer. i do feel like youve changed and i did enjoy my time there just as you did. i feel like it did change me for the better but i am confused on how the bundy's handled this situation with the boy. whats your email or sn id like to talk to people from thayer

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2004, 08:14:00 PM

if anyone knows sgt. gardener or heckinkamp id really like to speak with them.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 27, 2004, 06:31:00 AM

Blair! email me at [email protected]

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on December 31, 2004, 11:16:00 PM

ex cadets IM me at nonesuch2890

-cadet chance rutherford

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 01, 2005, 02:58:00 AM

^^^start a new topic idiot instead of posting in every friggen thread

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 01, 2005, 05:57:00 PM

It actually takes me *very little* time to read and post on Fornits.  I have hypergraphia and I touchtype pretty fast, too. LOL

Most professional writers are hypergraphs.  Just the way it is.  One of the pluses to having to deal with all the other mental health stuff, I guess.

A lot of times when I'm writing, either on Fornits, elsewhere on the web, or actually putting out produtive words for pay, my daughter is curled up beside me doing schoolwork or reading.

You never really know what someone else's life is like from what you read on the internet.

And my point as that applies to Thayer is that, as with other places offering residential treatment, I don't necessarily want to shut them down.  I just want some regulatory oversight in place and standards in place.  I want it to ensure that kids accused of juvenile delinquency actually have the problems they're accused of having, seriously enough to require residential care.  I want children suffering from organic brain defects like brain damage or mental illness to get accurate diagnosis and proper treatment.

Personally, if I had my druthers I'd have every kid getting sent to one of these places given a SPECT scan, and the parents given a SPECT scan, so it would be clear exactly what problems the kid had and, from other scans later in the process, clear if "The Program" was improving things or making things worse.  And, of course, if the parents were the ones who were sick and dumping their problems on the kid, that would show up, too.

If you really needed residential treatment, I don't see any reason you should oppose that.  All it does is make it very clear what the problems are and whether the "treatment" is actually helping, or not.

If you're right, you have nothing to lose.

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Mrs. Doubtfire on January 02, 2005, 11:31:00 PM

One can only hope the bright light of the law will shine on this snake pit and see what comes crawling out? The Bundy's and their ilk should have to spend a month in their own dungeons.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: CHEECHEE on January 16, 2005, 01:26:00 AM

Hey Blair!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2005, 03:53:00 AM

anyone notice than when you search thayer on google, this topic is pushed back 2 the 2nd page

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 25, 2005, 10:46:00 AM

Hey i went to TLC. do u know how i can get a hold og Ronique Williams?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 25, 2005, 11:10:00 AM

Yeah, TLC was reallt dumb i wasted 4 months there. Anyone having info on how i can reach Asia Johnson or Jackie Love please tell me ! thanks.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 25, 2005, 07:46:00 PM

who is this? a johnson left before i got there same with love so sorry i dont have any info on them

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 25, 2005, 07:47:00 PM

if any1 gets a hold of williams please tell me...i fucking miss that girl. whos askign for anyways?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 26, 2005, 11:03:00 AM

i asked, i went there with her. i left in August... i wonder who would have it? i have talked to four girls from there so far...

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: BlazeOn420 on January 26, 2005, 11:47:00 AM

This is D. Mestas!!!! who is this? :smokin:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 26, 2005, 05:17:00 PM

haha omg mestas, do you remember me its van zant. i was fly's cadet, you moved up to residency like right when i got there. remember watching those tiight videos with the turtle and moose...swing and miss missy that should be nameee hahaha omg wow. IM me on lipglosskisses06 or email me @ [email protected] and hows the person that left in august?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 27, 2005, 03:39:00 AM

heyyy vanzant dont be talkin bout fly...fly has NOTHING to do with anything on this stupid website. vanzant...worst cadet ever!! haha just kiddin...aight bye kids

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 27, 2005, 03:44:00 AM

oh yea and if any of you morons wanna talk to me, because i am so cool, im me at [email protected]

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: BlazeOn420 on January 27, 2005, 12:01:00 PM

Ya i remember when Fly and i use to watch that movie... maybe i'll email u!
[email protected]

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 27, 2005, 11:06:00 PM

the person looking for heckenkamp or gardner, where can I reach you?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2005, 02:03:00 AM

hey i wanna know about heckingcamp and gardner, email me at [email protected]

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2005, 05:22:00 PM

[email protected] i lovedddd sgt. heckinkamp soo much

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2005, 10:43:00 PM

ms willas new name is Bundy Bitch says cadet ramirez

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2005, 10:46:00 PM

Does anyone here know cadet ramirez

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2005, 10:47:00 PM

blazeon420 what is your name?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2005, 10:52:00 PM

Hey you were their for the boy so was i what is your name? e-mail me at [email protected] my name is cadet ramirez

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2005, 11:10:00 PM

Oh yeah i forgot Mr. Bundy is Bundy Bastard

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2005, 11:20:00 PM

every where we go people wanna know who we are and where we come from we come from a bootcamp a fucken sick ass bootcamp it's just like a bootcamp down in hell, you are tlc and you like to kill people kill people all night long kill them till the break of dawn

gimie a k gimie an i gimie an l gimie an l gimie an e gimie an r whats that spell killer. that what the hell you are bundys.

would you happen to be realted to Ted Bundy you know the famous cereal killer ? cause that what you are! you're going to hell well God says not to judge so i feel like you are going to hell. but you would'nt know about my father up in heaven would you???  :flame:HELLBITCHHELL :flame:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2005, 11:27:00 PM

oops i ment per cadet ramirez not says. my "apogolies" not

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2005, 11:33:00 PM

oh and mr. Jake i hate you for the rootbeer thing you are a prick His name should be Mr. jake jackass

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2005, 01:29:00 AM

any you guys fuckin remember me...probably not any ways this is cadet chance rutherford im me at nonesuch2890 or email me at [email protected]

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2005, 01:08:00 PM

How long were you there ruth ford?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2005, 01:55:00 PM

HI, I'm Cadet Ramirez- Julia. Thayer Learning Center is a living hell. I was there for 4 months and hated every minute of it. Not just because it was hard> I actually liked the exercise part but watching other kids and myself get abused was to much for me. The place is down right scary, especially after the boy was killed. Yes I did say killed. Spider bite my ass. HE was treated like an animal for a couple of days then threw in an isolation room and left to die. He had bruises and broken bones, abused is an under statement. I have numerous health problems of my own after being there. 1)injured knee 2)injured shoulder, the Dr. at first thought I had a broken collar bone,that's what the boy who died had.3)injured hips 4) injured wrist. 5)yeast infection and bladder infection. I complained for weeks about this stuff but do you think anybody cared? nope! I had feelings when I got to this place. I mean I really felt bad when I saw another kid get into trouble but after the first month it was just like I didn't care anymore. I had to survive and that's all I cared about. That's not the real me. The abuse made me hard. And the lack of touch and affection from another human being made me hard. I hope I can find the old me someday because I liked her a lot better. My grand father killed himself a couple of years ago and I got really depressed around christmas time. I told Ms Kristy, MY family rep and she told me to suck up my drama and got up and walked away and left me sitting there bawling my head off by myself. That was one of the worst feelings of my life. I think it's what made me feel mean and angry.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2005, 03:07:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-01-29 10:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"HI, I'm Cadet Ramirez- Julia. Thayer Learning Center is a living hell. I was there for 4 months and hated every minute of it. Not just because it was hard> I actually liked the exercise part but watching other kids and myself get abused was to much for me. The place is down right scary, especially after the boy was killed. Yes I did say killed. Spider bite my ass. HE was treated like an animal for a couple of days then threw in an isolation room and left to die. He had bruises and broken bones, abused is an under statement. I have numerous health problems of my own after being there. 1)injured knee 2)injured shoulder, the Dr. at first thought I had a broken collar bone,that's what the boy who died had.3)injured hips 4) injured wrist. 5)yeast infection and bladder infection. I complained for weeks about this stuff but do you think anybody cared? nope! I had feelings when I got to this place. I mean I really felt bad when I saw another kid get into trouble but after the first month it was just like I didn't care anymore. I had to survive and that's all I cared about. That's not the real me. The abuse made me hard. And the lack of touch and affection from another human being made me hard. I hope I can find the old me someday because I liked her a lot better. My grand father killed himself a couple of years ago and I got really depressed around christmas time. I told Ms Kristy, MY family rep and she told me to suck up my drama and got up and walked away and left me sitting there bawling my head off by myself. That was one of the worst feelings of my life. I think it's what made me feel mean and angry."

Ramirez, you owe it to yourself and the boy who died to call the district attorney's office in the county where Thayer is and tell them what you know and what you witnessed and who would know more and who else witnessed this murder.

You need to contact the state bureau of investigation in the state Thayer is located and tell them the same thing.

You need to contact the FBI and tell them the same thing.

The reason is Thayer may have paid off the district attorney's office to make them unwilling to prosecute this murder.

If they *don't* prosecute it, the FBI can investigate it and prosecute it, very possibly, as a federal civil rights violation.  (It doesn't get more violative than murder).

Also, to put pressure on the district attorney, look at the earlier parts of this thread.  Call the reporter who initially reported the story and tell him/her everything you know.  That should be your first phone call, and the DA's office your second phone call.

If you don't have long distance, use a pay phone to call the reporter, and have him/her call you back.  The reporter will almost certainly be all over this like white on rice.

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2005, 03:15:00 PM

Ramirez---notice from the early part of this thread that the death didn't even make the papers until the person who head the call on the police scanner got on here, was told to call the media, and called the media.

That call got the death in the papers.

Until the reporter has someone like you as a source, they don't know this was a murder.

If you need anonymity for some of the things you tell the reporter, or some of the other witnesses are willing to talk to the reporter but need anonymity, reporters are very good at protecting their sources' identities.

Get the story out to the media.  Call the reporter.  It *will* be effective and you can and will make a difference if you start making the right calls and talking to the right people about what you saw and heard and what you know.

Even if you didn't see the actual murder, any abuse of this boy you saw can help the district attorney prove the murder case in court.

Look at all the piecing together of little pieces in the puzzle that the DA had to do to prove the murder case against Scott Peterson.

Your piece of the puzzle may be the last remaining piece the DA needs to have enough evidence to take into court and put these murdering bastards away.

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2005, 03:30:00 PM

And, what you have described *is* a murder.

They had complete physical control over this boy and they knew he was injured and failed to get him prompt medical attention and he died as a result of that negligence.

That's "depraved indifference" and it *is* a murder.

It's also a "felony murder" depending on the laws in Missouri.

If Missouri has a "felony murder" law, and most states do, if a person dies (even one of the perpetrators, much less one of the victims) during the commission of a felony (like felony child abuse), every person who participated criminally in that felony is guilty of murder one in that death.

That means the staffer that beat him up, the staffer that threw him in isolation, and every staffer that encountered him from the time he began to need the medical care until he died, and participated in helping cover up the death, by being a felony accomplice to felony child abuse is guilty of murder one in his death.

I'm not a lawyer, this is not specific legal advice, but for a layman, I'm reasonably savvy.

The "felony murder" rule can spread that guilt onto an awful lot of accomplices in a hurry.

It wouldn't extend to any of the students because they were prisoners and had a severe lack of control of the situation and whether they participated or not--so "junior staff" are probably not liable even if they *percieved* themselves as having power---because the reality is they could have been busted down to the lowest levels of powerlessness at the whim of the real paid staff.

So if you weren't on the lowest level and are feeling survivor guilt that you couldn't manage to save this boy, or if any other kid witnesses are afraid to come forward, *don't be*.

You're clean of liability (or your lawyer, even a public defender, can *easily* make you "clean" if anybody even remotely tries to imply you have responsibility.  You're clean in this.) and it's the staff and owners' asses that are hanging in the wind.

Just like child molesters try to convince their victim that the victim will be in trouble if he/she tells, to keep the victim quiet and protect the criminal abuser, the Thayer owners or staff may have tried to intimidate you and suggest that you students/inmates would have liability.

If they did, they were just snowing you to try to frighten you into being their patsy and protecting their worthless criminal asses.

Don't buy into it.  Call that paper and ask to talk to the news tip line, leave your name and number and tell them you were at Thayer witnessed part of the situation in the Thayer 14 year old boy's death.

I sometimes rag on the mainstream media and reporters and such, but when a scandal is going on  and you know things about it and the authorities really want to look the other way, the newspaper reporter is your very best friend.

Also call the ACLU.  They won't get off their asses for much dealing with this industry, but maybe a dead kid will get through to them that it's a serious problem.

It helps that the Thayer folks are a pack of religious fanatice, because the ACLUers generally hate those guys.

(I'm *not* criticizing your faith if you're Christian, or the faith of anyone else sent to Thayer.  But the Thayer staff and owners don't seem to fit any rational person's definition of "Good Christians.")

Julie

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2005, 03:36:00 PM

I had just begun This is Julia again. I want to tell you about some things I saw there. I saw Drill Sgt. Caro take a girl, Alora was her name , down and hold her hand behind her back until she turned purple. We were not suppose to witness these take downs. We were instructed to put our faces to the ground and cover our eyes but I'm just to nosy I had to see what was going on. Mr. Jake, the Bundys son, exercised the boys so hard one day that almost all of them puked. That apple didn't fall far from the tree. He's probably the most sadistic person I've ever met besides John and Willa themselves. There were male and female junior staff having sex on a regular basis. When they got caught all hell broke lose. 4 or 5 of the boys started a riot that was crazy. They were pissed off because they got dropped back to boot camp. There were spiders, mice, rats and moles everywhere. And yes I do mean inside the buildings. It was nothing to wake up in the night and find spiders crawling on or around you. Now if these spiders were so dangerous and killed people why didn't then why didn't the Bundy serial killers, I mean serial child abusers do something about the problem of the spiders? An exterminator couldn't cost all that much. After all they are raking in four hundred thousand dollars a month which I do believe they pay no taxes on due to the place being a non denominational christian organization which by the way it's not. It's MORMON. Yes the Bundy abusers are RAGING MORMONS disguising as non denominational christians. The whole program is based on lies and manipulations.Back to abuse i saw there. One girl used a four letter word, FUCK. She was forsed to brush her teeth for 4 hours.For 2 days her lips and gums were bleeding and the enamel came right off her teeth. I saw this with my own 2 eyes. If you ever got sick you had to be in a pink shirt to not have to exercise. To get into a pink shirt you have to see a doctor. And there's the problem. We never got to see a dr. Not even if you were dying as you all know. One girl did get to go to the dr. because she had female problems. Huge boils between her legs and on her butt. Puss and blood would come out of them. The rest of us were told to suck up our drama. Our private parts were itching and burning and we were told to suck our drama. Can you imagine exercising for hours every day like this?Well I can because I did. We would get woke up at any time of the night the sergeants felt like it and made to exercise for hours. Sometimes we were made to roll around in a mud pit and then exercise for hours and then go back to bed all dirty. Yep I do mean no shower. We were told that legally they only had to let us sleep for 3 hours a night. Boys were taken down regularly for looking sergeants in the eyes. They were a little more careful with the girls. Looking a sergeant in the eyes was considered a sign of aggression. Even a dog is allowed to look it's master in the eyes without physical punishment. Almost everyday somebody was taken down for something stupid. It was almost like a sport for the drill sergeants. Staff would come and go so quickly it was crazy It's my guess that people with a heart couldn't do this job so they'd quit after just a little while. You would have to be really mean and heartless to do the things they did to us. My family rep was the biggest liar and manipulating bitch I've ever known. I was suppose to see her for 1/2 hour every week. I was lucky if I saw her 5 minutes every other week. And what good was she anyway? She could have cared less about me. She was so young and immature. She must have only been 20 or so. You could tell it was just a job for her. The heartless bitch. She told so many lies between my mother and me and I think it was a manipulation to keep me in boot camp so I couldn't talk to my mother about what was going on and about the boy dying. It just seemed that nothing I did was good enough. They'd tell me I was Going to move up to residency so I could see my mom but it would never happen. I was in boot camp for 4 months. That's when my mom had enough of the shit and came and got me. My mother is a human bull shit detector and thank GOD she felt something terribly wrong and came for me. A year would have made me so hard and mean. I hate to think about it. What's a well behaved kid if they don't have any human feelings inside them? Well that's what this place doe's to you.I started to not believe in god anymore because how could a real god let this happen to me. The night before my mom showed up I prayed to god and asked him to please get me out of here. I couldn't believe it when I saw my mom the next day. There she was to get me just what I prayed for the night before. Boy do I believe in god now. I feel so lucky that I was rescued from Bundy Hell. After the boy died it was like nothing had happened and that really scared me. It was like nobody cared. It made me think it could have been me or maybe I would be next or something. We weren't allowed to talk about it. It's just weird to have somebody die right near you and life goes on as usual like nothing happened. The boy was from Santa Rosa CA., my home town. He was mexican and so am I. I feel pretty bad for his family. I mean I bet they didn't expect all of this. They probably thought they were sending there kid to a wonderful program to get help and he really ended up at Bundy Hell and died. My papa died and I've never been the same, maybe I never will be but I remember my papa used to say that he'd known a few ladies, one of them his grandma, who had a kid die and they're never the same again. He used to say some even go crazy from the grief. He used to say it's one thing to have a parent die but a parent should never out live there child. I don't know why he told me this stuff. I was just a kid. It meant nothing to me at the time. I think he was feeling sorry for his grandma. By the way, my papa is my grandpa not my dad. Well I just wanted to tell my story. And excuse my language but if the Bundys or ms. Kristy or some of the drill sergeants read this I want you to know that you're a bunch of sadistic bastards who must be posessed by the devil because not even an athiest could do what you people do on a daily basis. And a special BURN IN HELL TO MS. BUNDY BITCH. I swear on my life that what i've written is true.  :flame:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2005, 03:52:00 PM

This is Julia again I want to clear up the fact that I didn't actually see the boy get killed. These are things that were being said by junior staff and when I got home I researched the case and found out a lot of information. And believe me my family and I are doing everything we can to stop this shit from happening again. We of course need all the advice we can get and if anybody knows anything or would like to talk especially if you were there when this happened you can e-mail me. The boys who were in boot camp at the time this happened really need to be talked to before they are so brain washed they can't think for themselves. I really wish that the state would go in and interview all the boys.If you want to contact me you can e-mail me at [email protected] or call 707-527-7628

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2005, 03:56:00 PM

incorrect e-mail address it's [email protected]

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2005, 07:23:00 PM

hey the bleach thing are you talking about greuniesen when he peed himself.. when augestine dumped bleach water over him

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2005, 10:31:00 PM

Hey this is cadet "Regulatorio" for thoes who know me, if any one knows FLORES, McCready, Tim Lenweaver please email me, i just wanted to say, i met reyes before he died, it was sick, it made me want to vomit, actually i gave in to that feeling and i did vomit in a bucket, but when i went down to boot camp for calling booth a racist fucker and threatening to beat his ass, srgt vaughn and srgt pikula made me wash reyes, apparently about a week before, he stopped functioning, so they threw him in the xray bay and he just laid there for about a week and a half and didnt do shit he barely ate too he just pissed and shit himself and then rolled over with what ever little bit of humanity he had within him,im just saying roberto reyes was murdered with neglect, the beatings i dont doubt it at all but a new srgt told me that they couldnt touch him any more, the srgts couldnt but the drill srgts and directors they still were, but the thing is, is when i went down they woke like 4 or 5 of us up to mop up his shit and pick him up, naturally this giant kid was difficult to lift so wed get him half way up and, wed think he could support himself and then hed fall down and slam the back of his head down in the cement... yea it must have hurt like a bitch, it was loud, he was covered in bruises and cuts, before they made us wash him from being restrained and dragged and i wouldnt doubt being hit either, anyway i refused to be involved in such a neglectful and degrading act.. something so dehumanizing, they demoted me to a redshirt for refusing to participate in the lifting and dragging and propping and pushing of the cadet reyes to the nasty grimey latrine were theyd make him lay on the nasty floor on a brown shirt and hose him down and scrub him, so im saying i saw him and i know he looked at me and he was beyond pain and suffering, its that point when u realize wtf and everything is drowned out, white noise and meaningless.. reyes wasnt human anymore, i felt and many others felt that they treated us like scum, less than animals, i witnessed the result of that on some one who was in a weaker state of mind due to acid and various other drugs, yes reyes was a acid head but he was still human and he was detoxing off of acid, which is a pretty shitty and dangerous process if u did alot of it, and according to torres who was senior resident at the time he spoke to reyes and reyes told him that he did a shit load of acid, so reyes got neglected for like 2 weeks and abused then he mysteriously died, i have my own theories and if u want to know email me at [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]) or im me on Yahoo or aim at RegulateYourFace. by the way i didnt get a chance to revise this thing so if it gets off topic alot or some part doesnt make sense or whateveru may find wrong with it im sorry, im short on time because now i am a human being again and this place stole my highschool education and fucked up my chances of getting into a good college so i need to get back to work

Sincerly,
Kid That Got fucked in the ass by his parents cuz they wanted to help him so the called mr banks and he tolled them send the bastard to tlc.. ps this place dont help, im still me and now i still got to make money lol... even more so now, so im saying try a diff approach to help ur kid, like me if ur kid likes to cut himself and watch the blood dribble, hes fucked up and u got to find out why not pay some rednecks 400 a month to fix him, cuz chances are if hes that fucked up to begin with hes gonna return in a state of mind of revenge and put a bul.........., good thing my parents pulled me out and listened to me, they finally got the message, but my life is still screwed, maybe u should listen to ur kids. now lets see if i can still become a bio engineer or maybe a quatom physicist or maybe a chemical engineer or atleast a chemist, maybe you get the hint, so the next time u read about some fucked up kid that changed something in the world for good or for worse think of what that kid really wanted to be, and why he became what he did peace out fuckers PPS!! and to my friends that i couldnt liberate my deepest appologies ive been out for about a _ now and TLC still hasnt sent me my shit, I believe that they are going to steal my extra hygene products in my personal bin just like they did to somany other cadets and there gonna take my other shit and my personal library of books and donate it to the school library which hardly anyone ever gets to use because they dont know it exsists... sooner or later someones going to get a stick of oldspice puresport with my name on it, i think ive made a big enough name for myself in bootcamp,they might know me, but im still pissed off i want my shit. i bet u a million bucks when i call them tomorrow there gonna say that they did send it a week ago and its prolly lost so... young if ur already out or if u did get moved to a bording school im sorry i couldnt call im still waiting for the item that was playing host to ur number, and i cant make out the one i wrote on the rubber band so if u can give me the first 4 digits i can call u PPPS Payne has herpies, Paybacks Bitch. im prolly not gonna post again cuz its futile but if u find something that is actually ground breaking then i might

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2005, 10:40:00 PM

Hey this is cadet "Regulatorio" for thoes who know me, if any one knows FLORES, McCready, Tim Lenweaver please email me, i just wanted to say, i met reyes before he died, it was sick, it made me want to vomit, actually i gave in to that feeling and i did vomit in a bucket, but when i went down to boot camp for calling booth a racist fucker and threatening to beat his ass, srgt vaughn and srgt pikula made me wash reyes, apparently about a week before, he stopped functioning, so they threw him in the xray bay and he just laid there for about a week and a half and didnt do shit he barely ate too he just pissed and shit himself and then rolled over with what ever little bit of humanity he had within him,im just saying roberto reyes was murdered with neglect, the beatings i dont doubt it at all but a new srgt told me that they couldnt touch him any more, the srgts couldnt but the drill srgts and directors they still were, but the thing is, is when i went down they woke like 4 or 5 of us up to mop up his shit and pick him up, naturally this giant kid was difficult to lift so wed get him half way up and, wed think he could support himself and then hed fall down and slam the back of his head down in the cement... yea it must have hurt like a bitch, it was loud, he was covered in bruises and cuts, before they made us wash him from being restrained and dragged and i wouldnt doubt being hit either, anyway i refused to be involved in such a neglectful and degrading act.. something so dehumanizing, they demoted me to a redshirt for refusing to participate in the lifting and dragging and propping and pushing of the cadet reyes to the nasty grimey latrine were theyd make him lay on the nasty floor on a brown shirt and hose him down and scrub him, so im saying i saw him and i know he looked at me and he was beyond pain and suffering, its that point when u realize wtf and everything is drowned out, white noise and meaningless.. reyes wasnt human anymore, i felt and many others felt that they treated us like scum, less than animals, i witnessed the result of that on some one who was in a weaker state of mind due to acid and various other drugs, yes reyes was a acid head but he was still human and he was detoxing off of acid, which is a pretty shitty and dangerous process if u did alot of it, and according to torres who was senior resident at the time he spoke to reyes and reyes told him that he did a shit load of acid, so reyes got neglected for like 2 weeks and abused then he mysteriously died, i have my own theories and if u want to know email me at [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]) or im me on Yahoo or aim at RegulateYourFace. by the way i didnt get a chance to revise this thing so if it gets off topic alot or some part doesnt make sense or whateveru may find wrong with it im sorry, im short on time because now i am a human being again and this place stole my highschool education and fucked up my chances of getting into a good college so i need to get back to work

Sincerly,
Kid That Got fucked in the ass by his parents cuz they wanted to help him so the called mr banks and he tolled them send the bastard to tlc.. ps this place dont help, im still me and now i still got to make money lol... even more so now, so im saying try a diff approach to help ur kid, like me if ur kid likes to cut himself and watch the blood dribble, hes fucked up and u got to find out why not pay some rednecks 400 a month to fix him, cuz chances are if hes that fucked up to begin with hes gonna return in a state of mind of revenge and put a bul.........., good thing my parents pulled me out and listened to me, they finally got the message, but my life is still screwed, maybe u should listen to ur kids. now lets see if i can still become a bio engineer or maybe a quatom physicist or maybe a chemical engineer or atleast a chemist, maybe you get the hint, so the next time u read about some fucked up kid that changed something in the world for good or for worse think of what that kid really wanted to be, and why he became what he did peace out fuckers PPS!! and to my friends that i couldnt liberate my deepest appologies ive been out for about a _ now and TLC still hasnt sent me my shit, I believe that they are going to steal my extra hygene products in my personal bin just like they did to somany other cadets and there gonna take my other shit and my personal library of books and donate it to the school library which hardly anyone ever gets to use because they dont know it exsists... sooner or later someones going to get a stick of oldspice puresport with my name on it, i think ive made a big enough name for myself in bootcamp,they might know me, but im still pissed off i want my shit. i bet u a million bucks when i call them tomorrow there gonna say that they did send it a week ago and its prolly lost so... young if ur already out or if u did get moved to a bording school im sorry i couldnt call im still waiting for the item that was playing host to ur number, and i cant make out the one i wrote on the rubber band so if u can give me the first 4 digits i can call u PPPS Payne has herpies, Paybacks Bitch. PS Julia i feel you

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 30, 2005, 02:34:00 AM

OH MY GOD! I can't believe this stuff I'm hearing. I mean this takes the cake. The Bundys must be brought to justice. And as for you young man , thank god you had nothing to do with this murder. You stood up for the boy the best you could. There's a lot of guilt around these type of situations and you did the right thing not folling orders and so you got put back to red shirt. At least you have a conscience and didnt give in to the brainwashing. You have nothing feel guilty about. These sadistic bastards had no right to have children do there dirty work. You and I both know that boy should have been in the hospital and he'd still be alive. The Bundys if they had there way would probably have taken him out in a field and burried him and called him a runaway. After all he was just another mexican to those red neck mormon bastards. Well good luck with your life. I hope you can overcome the anger and resentment you must be feeling.You seem like a strong personality to have survived all of this and not be brainwashed by this crazy cult.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 30, 2005, 12:20:00 PM

Regulatorio *please, please* call the newspaper that reported Reyes' death.  Please, please call the DA and the other places I suggested and talk to them.

Lord knows it's hard to get one of these places shut down, but sometimes the death of a kid does the trick.  But *only* if the word gets out that it was a murder.

Hell, call or email Matt Drudge and tell him you saw a long, slow murder of a 14 year old kid and nobody will listen or care.

Make it *national* news.

Please don't give up.  This kid was murdered.  The word has to get out there.

Timoclea/Julie

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2005, 10:26:00 AM

Daicia Mestas

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: BlazeOn420 on January 31, 2005, 10:35:00 AM

Hey sorry i messed that last post up. Yeah but Im *MESTAS*[ This Message was edited by: BlazeOn420 on 2005-01-31 07:35 ]

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2005, 11:46:00 AM

Quote

On 2005-01-31 07:35:00, BlazeOn420 wrote:

"Hey sorry i messed that last post up. Yeah but Im *MESTAS*[ This Message was edited by: BlazeOn420 on 2005-01-31 07:35 ]"

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Investigator Tom on January 31, 2005, 02:34:00 PM

I have seen a lot of posting and accusations on this page concerning TLC - If you have any information -(NOT JUST RUMORS_WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN YOURSELF) in reference to Cadet Reyes, and you are willing to testify in court, contact me at [email protected] and I will have a local officer come and take your statement for me. If you are just stating what you have heard, not what you have witnessed, please don't email me. It will only slow down my efforts as I will have to sort through all the messages.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2005, 06:06:00 PM

why should anyone trust you? Who are you?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2005, 06:24:00 PM

He did post an actual email address.  Let's not be so quick to jump on him.  Privately email him and ask him who he is and what his intentions are.  Remember that Stepcraft is watching.  Could be he doesn't want to tip his hand too much.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2005, 07:04:00 PM

Investigator Tom is the real thing. If you have info please email him.
Rocha

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2005, 09:22:00 PM

Who the heck is stepcraft? I've never heard of this. Are you talking about Bundy Bitch?Please write back.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Cayo Hueso on January 31, 2005, 09:27:00 PM

No, sorry...guess I wasn't logged in for that post.  Stepcraft is the general term used for Therapeutic Communities, AA/NA and the endless list of "Anonymous" groups that use the 12 Steps.  In this case though I was referring to TLC.

Religion is just mind control.
--George Carlin, comedian

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2005, 09:33:00 PM

Thanks for clearing that one up for me.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2005, 10:22:00 PM

Look, in this case "investigator" probably means cop or DA's office or the family's private dick.  Any of these would be a Good Thing (TM).

So if you're a witness, contact this guy and tell him you're a witness, ask him who he is, and ask for some kind of identification---like where he works or his state license number if he's a licensed PI or have him fax you a copy of his ID or email you a scanned copy of his ID/creds so you know he is who he says he is.

Then tell the nice man all you know so maybe these scumbags can be put away.

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2005, 12:20:00 AM

I would just like to say a little to you before you put your foot into your mouth.  Now I do not like to judge anyone and I know that it is wrong but after reading what you have to say, you have a lot of information wrong.  I wish I could tell you everything that I knew but that would be against my better judgement.  Now I believe that you do not like TLC, that I have figured, but you got it all wrong.  If you could see what these kids do on a daily basis before they come to TLC, you would not feel like you do now.  I read the part that said that you raised your kids to respect their elders and to respect you; however, the kids that are sent to TLC are not taught this.  It is pretty sad what these kids go through, that I am agreeing with but these kids were sent here to be taught respect and consequences; something that their parents could not or would not do, so TLC has to do that for the parents.  Hopefully in the end the teenagers will see that they are loved by the community and their parents and that these kids are our future.  TLC I believe is letting these kids know that there is hope for their futures and they can be whatever they want to be.
Now I do not want you to think that I am trying to change your mind because I am a firm believer that everyone has the right to their own opinion, but please take this as some advice; do not talk about something that you have no clue what is actually happening.  Yes a kid died but have you looked at other Juvenile Bootcamps to see their statistics?  Have you checked the way that other Juvenile Bootcamps run their facilities?  It is better to know everything before you open your mouth.  
Also, if you are so interested in the rights of others, why don't you start with the rights of adult prisoners?  Adult prisoners die every year and you would be suprised how long the medics have to wait until having to get into the cell where the prisoner lays dead!!!
I am not here to change your mind or to beat down on you or to ridicule you on your own opinion, I do not like to see false statements about something that has been made up so that the society can read a hot, juicy, false statement or articule.
I am not singling this statement to just you but to everyone that comes onto this webcite.  I believe what you are doing is fine; you want to protect the rights of others but lets do it the correct way.  I wish you the best in everything that you will come upon and I hope that you will take this statement and right the truth and not make up false testimony so you can get people on your side.
Thank you for reading this and hopefully you will apply this in the near future.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 01, 2005, 12:48:00 AM

Wow, Anon, you did it *AGAIN!*

You have us a bunch of meaningless buzzlines and vague generalities that mean absolutely nothing:

You give the usual bullshit about consequences and 'respect', and nothing else. Bullshit!

You give no indication about HOW these consequences and respect are taugtht, for two.

You then don't answer jack shit about why we hate it, that is, abusive methods, and instead only say they act bad beforehand. BTW, even if a kid is bad, outright bullshit abuse is NOT ever acceptable. You dont learn respect or 'consequences' when people abuse you and break laws and get no consequences yourself. All you learn is to hate them, and to avoid punishment. And, how to manipulate and suck up to get out without being hurt anymore.

GOOD lessons, arent they? It doesnt mean a god damned thing either way what the kids did BEFORE TLC, what matters is HOW TLC operates and what they do.  

Hot, juicy, scandalous, unbeliveable, whatever, you have given nothing to rebut what was said about TLC or its methods. You have given NO information about how it DOES work, but instead you use the same tired excuses and defences.

"the accusations are lies" "they are awful kids before they show up" "they have to learn to RESPECT AUTHORITY and CONSEQUENCES" doesnt cut it. Try to show how it ACTUALLY WORKS or get the hell out.

Dont let the door hit your ass.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
--Bruce Lee

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on February 01, 2005, 01:02:00 AM

Quote

On 2005-01-31 21:20:00, Anonymous wrote:

Adult prisoners die every year and you would be suprised how long the medics have to wait until having to get into the cell where the prisoner lays dead!!!

Yes! This is very, very true. Just check into http://november.org/ (http://november.org/)

But you deserve better! You always did! And us old yuppies? Ya' know, the ones who partied too much in the late `80's while trying to raise you? Well, we fucked up big time! We should have been watching the news and voting habitually like our stodgy old fathers told us to.

But we didn't take their avice. And so we allowed the prison industrial complex to grow out of control on our dime and on our watch.

Some of us are sorry. You kids should never have had to choose between the second most harsh form of punishement our society has in stock and Thayer. It's our mistake, and some of us are doing all we can afford to set it right.

Hunker and watch, jump in when you're confident to do so. But don't worry. We're really OK.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2005, 01:05:00 AM

Thanks for your input MS. Willa. Do you really think that we're that stupid. Come on lady. I hear your crazy voice in my sleep.When I read this all I heard was your crazy voice. It's like this.When your around somebody enough you get to know the language they use. This letter stinks of Willa. All the kids out there know what I'm talking about. And adults that don't know her, well trust me I'm a master manipulator and I know this shit like the back of my hand. If you are a Willa impersinator BRAVO! You even fooled me and that's not easy to do. At least have the guts to reveal your identity. NO that won't happen because Ms. Willa has no guts.    :wave:
                                      Bye Willa

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on February 01, 2005, 01:13:00 AM

Walla.com belongs to the state of MO. But Timoclea gives good avice. Check ID and, if you're so inclined, give them permission to release your contact info. to other complaintants. Or feel free to set up an anon hotmail or some other email address and post it here. If half of this is true, you folks really need to group up, lawyer up and go to war.

for nothing can keep it right but their own vigilant and distrustful superintendence.

--Thomas Jefferson

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2005, 10:34:00 AM

where do i find information on this incident?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2005, 12:13:00 PM

why don't you stick it where the sun doesn't shine!!! You arrogant asshole!  Were you in TLC?  Did you have a family member who went to TLC?  I did and if you were not there or did not have a relative there you don't have a clue what you are taling about. Go peddle your Bullshit someplace else!!!! All kids aren't bad, or druggies you did not live my life before or after TLC - most of us had a life before TLC now we have nothing except more nightmares.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2005, 12:25:00 PM

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascit ... 103.htm?1c (http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/10450103.htm?1c)

reporter email: Steve Rocks at [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected])
Password: nonono1

Courtesy of http://www.bugmenot.com (http://www.bugmenot.com)

--------------------------------------------

It looks like the paper in Columbia picked up the AP story: http://www.showmenews.com/2004/Nov/20041111News008.asp (http://www.showmenews.com/2004/Nov/20041111News008.asp)


---------------------------------------------

from the other site where I forward Fornits news:

Nobody will do anything until the State investigative report is finished,
Julie. They might be getting a whitewash, but the St. Joe paper and tv
stations don't sound like they are going to let it go.

What would be a good thing to do is for people (I already have) to write to
the St. Joe paper and tv stations and thank them for the coverage, and
encourage them to proceed. The tv station, KQTV Channel 2, is an ABC
affiliate, and if they make enough noise, ABC will pick up the story.
Copying the News Director at ABC News is a good idea.

After the report comes out next week (so they say), it will be another
opportunity to make noise.

This is a horrible example of this problem.
***
(still from other site)
I found this in the Kansas City Star's article: Ruth Ehresman, policy director of Citizens for Missouri's Children, a nonprofit child advocacy group based in St. Louis, doesn't like that there are six or more unregulated homes throughout Missouri.

?We require places where animals are kept to be inspected,? she said. ?And yet we're willing to allow children to be placed for 24 hours a day, away from their parents, in a place that doesn't require any oversight.?

It sounds like you have allies...

--------------------------------------------------

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2005, 12:39:00 PM

Oh, and to the Anon others who might know think is probably Ms. Willa:

No teenagers should be dying in bootcamps.  They're young, they're relatively healthy, they're not going to be dying unless they're being abused or neglected.

When I was a kid, telling my momma what the other kids did bad didn't get me out of trouble for what I did, it doesn't work for my child, and it won't work for TLC.

Teenage kids we expect to do wrong.  They've got no experience, no judgement, and loads of hormones.  And they mostly grow out of it.  Society, and parent, hold teenagers accountable at  the stage of development they are---as teenagers.

When adults do wrong, we have to hold them accountable at the stage of development they are---as adults.

Lots of people out there do wrong in the name of good intentions.  They're still doing wrong.  When they're children, we hold them accountable as children.  When they're teens, we hold them accountable as teens.  When they're adults, we hold them accountable as adults.

Adults are held to a higher standard.  And they should be.

These boot camps go out and try to hold teens accountable at *higher* standards than any adult has to live to, and then they don't want to be accountable themselves to the normal standards society holds all adults to.

They think their "good intentions" make them exempt.

Well, they are not exempt.  When they do wrong as adults, we in society will hold them accountable as adults.  They may not like it, but they're going to be held accountable.

When you do wrong, you have to take the consequences.  And doing wrong as an adult has harsher consequences than doing wrong as a teen.

When a teen leaves a wrinkle in a bed at Thayer, look at the consequences Thayer puts on that teen, as a teen, and says that teen is being held accountable.

Now compare that wrinkle in a bed to a teen that's been medically neglected and not gotten care and actually dies.

That's a lot more than a wrinkle in a bed, and that's an adult, not a teen.

Just imagine, just imagine if that adult was set proportional consequences for the dead child for what they gave the kids for a wrinkle in a bed.

There is a dead kid, and now there are going to be some serious consequences, *serious* consequences for those adults responsible.

And there should be.  There should be.

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2005, 01:36:00 PM

When did you get promoted to the postion where you feel you are in a entitled to comment on what goes on at TLC! Were you there? If not! Shut up! You have no rights or authority to comment on what the children are going through in that dungeon! My only hope is that the ones who survive, the ones who have parents who loved them enough to see through the bullshit and lies TLC was telling them, and get them out before any more harm could come to their children, all get together and kick the shit out of the people who caused them this harm.  Waiting for the opportunity to kick the crap out of the Bundy's and their SS troopers should be motivation enough for some of us to hold on till we find them alone someplace, someday.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2005, 01:39:00 PM

Howdy

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2005, 01:42:00 PM

howdy

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2005, 01:48:00 PM

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2005, 01:52:00 PM

Hello
meta http-equiv="refresh" content="3;url=http://www.google.com"

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2005, 03:39:00 PM

Reglatario, Please tell your story to the reporter or to the press. It's so important to the case against the Bundys. It could mean the difference between them going to jail or them still abusing kids like yourself. If you're affraid that they might do something to you don't worry. They're in so much deep shit right now they have no time to worry about revenge on you. I understand that a lot of brainwashing went on there but believe me they are no threat to you. You are the only one that I know of that is outside Thayer and knows what really happened. Please help before it's to late. You can contact the investigator for the state of missouri at www.investigator (http://www.investigator) [email protected] (http://[email protected]) He obviously works for the Kansas City Star and you can totally trust these two people. They have no connection to the Bundys. PLEASE HELP!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2005, 04:16:00 PM

From what I understand, about half the kids currently incarcerated do not need any kind of treatment at all...they are perfectly normal teenagers. I know of at least one such child, age 15, who I know for a fact committed no crime other than backtalking her parents. She did not do drugs, alcohol or run away, was not promiscuous,in trouble with the law or truant. This is not about the kids, it's about their egotistical and controlling parents, who find it more convenient to send their child away than to admit the entire family has a problem and seek professional help. I personally find the  explosive growth of these teen "treatment" facilities to be the single most disgusting situation I have witnessed in my lifetime, and I am a granny many times over. I find it hard to believe that the majority of the parents are stupid enough to be duped by the glossy brochures and sales pitches. I would venture to say with certainty that all of them have access to a computer (that's how most of them found these places), and they are familiar with the internet and know how to use it. So why didn't they do their homework? Why was it so easy for me, a relatively computer illiterate granny and my even older sister, to dig up voluminous information on the pros and cons of residential treatment for teens, in a matter of weeks? How many of these parents actually visit the facility before having their child abducted and transported? How many of them are burying their heads in the sand once they suspect that their child is suffering? I am thankful that at least one mother, who posts on this site, had the guts to remove her daughter when things didn't seem right. I hope that other parents follow her example by opening their eyes to the truth and doing their job, which is to love and care for their children.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2005, 05:01:00 PM

Jr staff were havin sex without condoms?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 01, 2005, 11:29:00 PM

Thank you for the compliment. I'm the one who removed my daughter when I smelled a rat and after a while a bunch of rats and then a murderd boy. That was it for me. And as for teens having sex without condoms, according to my daughter several boys and girls were having sex on a regular basis. Infact one girl bragged to my daughter about having sex with one boy and then going right on to the next boy a doing him as well and then one more all in one day. Now this is pretty gross. Probably this type of behavior is what got her there in the first place and she's still up to her old stuff. I'm of course just taking a guess here. QUESTION OF THE YEAR. Where the hell are the staff while all this is going on?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: chi3 on February 02, 2005, 06:40:00 AM

I am also going to say thank you for the compliment. I also took my daughter out of one of the "schools" recently. I don't know anything about Thayer other than what I have read, but I can honestly say, based on the information given to us by the place our daughter went, we did try and find info. Unfortunately, they were very good at sending us to only positive information, and when we checked for negative info with only the little info they gave us, we found basically nothing. I had to dig and dig to get to some really meaty stuff. We were truly misled that this place was very strict boarding school where the kids have chores and very lots of therapy to deal with any issues they might have. We thought it was great for our defiant daughter who has some emotional issues and has had to deal with some difficult situations. We are not ignorant, as in stupid, but we were ignorant to the existence of these such horrible children's prisons. When we felt things were weird, we went and got our child. Thankfully, where she was the very worst of the things didn't seem to be happening, but we didn't need it to be to know that this was not what a teenager needs to help them. I hope one day that enough information will get out that we see the end of this type of horror.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 02, 2005, 09:52:00 AM

When accusations are made like the ones your daughter stated, why don't you or she name names?
The consequences of what goes on in these places will be better served if others know who is doing what!  And where are the staff?  Probably watching because if they aren't busy creating the pain, when they take a break they can watch others be abused. Name the girl.  Name the boys. Name everyone. Perhaps the girls parents will read this thread and see that they are wasting their money, she can stay home and sport fuck her way across their bank account.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 02, 2005, 09:57:00 AM

Go to any search engine, google, yahoo, and enter the name of the facility you are doing the research on. Go to WWASP and vow to never send a child to anyone on their list or any facility you find when you enter "troubled teen" in a search engine.  The Mormons are coming, the Mormons are coming.  Go to bulletin boards such as this amazing forum and search out teen watchdog groups like ISAC. Then tell everyone who will listen about what you find, and just because you saved your child by taking them out, remember those left behind and continue the research to help the parents and children who could face the same hell as the children who escaped.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 02, 2005, 01:01:00 PM

This question you ask Why don't we name names? Well come on now I'm going to give you the benefit of a doubt that you're not connected to Thayer and say because if Bundys or somebody that works for them were to read the names on here what do you think they would do to the kid that was named on here if they happened to still be at Thayer. Rest assured that we're doing EVERYTHING possible to help these kids. And I do mean everything. Cadet Ramirez left her phone # and her E-mail address. I do believe this is enough. After all she is at home safe from this bad situation the others aren't so lucky yet so lets not use there names and cause more trouble for them at Thayer. I mean if the punishment for saying the "can't" word is brushing your teeth with baking soda for 2 hours God only knows what the punishment would be for some how getting your name on this forum. Because we care about the kids we can't name names. The thing about Thayer is that the less trouble you cause, the more obedient you are the less punishments you get. O.K. I've said enough and sorry if I've said to much it's just I can really get going.

I

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 02, 2005, 01:10:00 PM

Also if parents are concerned about there kids and they happen to be on here they can follow up to make sure it's not there kid. But the fact is that most parents have no idea about this site so it would make little difference if names were named and of cours some parents are so brainwashed that they wouldn't believe it and try to sue or something for using there minor childs name. No using names is not a good idea. At least the kids names now using sergeants names ,that's another story. That's a great idea.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 02, 2005, 01:19:00 PM

Yep, don't fall for it. Sounds like you're being baited by the program. I'm sure they'd like to have the names of the kids so they can take 'appropriate action'. Report it to the authorities. Might be good for CPS to check it out. You could trust them with the names.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Mrs. Doubtfire on February 02, 2005, 02:51:00 PM

So much information is written on these sites that some people take what is said as gospel, or the truth, simply because it is the written word.  I don't believe anyone is stupidly suggesting that names be mentioned if indeed, the child is still incarcerated.  Yet you hear, that boys and girls are separated so how can this marathon sexcapade be going on at will? If it is true, and it probably is, it is an even more pathetic commentary on these dungeons and all the more reason the owners, management and drill sergeants be named as mentioned. In capital letters!! then contact the authorities, tell them what you know and let them sort it out in court and help them all you can to bring these devils to justice. One of the reasons I come to these boards is to find some hope. If the horror stories are the only thing I hear, without any associated punishments to those who are responsible for the atrocity then it dimished that hope and all the prayers I say for release of the innocents. Everyone once in awhile, one of the good guys simply must win.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 02, 2005, 04:27:00 PM

Go to the authorities, then after action is taken, post the names.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 02, 2005, 05:35:00 PM

another good reason for not mentioning names are the legal ramifications of such.  

But, i would like to say, I went up to visit the school here recently and I arrived way ahead of schedule.  rather than callign someone, i just walked in the front door and began looking around the building, i saw the kids working, i saw some of the staff, and it all appeared as it should be...and this was an unexpected visit...no one knew i was coming and no one knew i was watching.  not saying it doesnt happen, just saying on an unannounced visit and walk through the school, i saw nothing out of the ordinary other than what was supposed to be going on in the boot camp, they were working the cadets, i.e. situps, thrusts, etc.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 02, 2005, 05:50:00 PM

Remember there's 4 levels to the program and the boot campers get maximum supervision.This is where most of the abuse goes on. By the time you're in junior staff stasis you have all sorts of freedom to do the things you want to do. After all you're an unpaid staff. If you think about it it's quite clever of the Bundys to use students for staff. It saves money on payroll.From what I understand it was junior staff who were keeping watch on the Reyes boy while he was in isolation being punished for non compliance-dying. These poor kids have to live with this for the rest of there lives and in reality they didn't do anything wrong. They're just innocent kids. Well it sickens me to think about this. Kids being forced to abuse other kids is almost the worst thing they do at this place.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 02, 2005, 06:14:00 PM

Nobody is suggesting that kids are being abused every minute of everyday and of course they knew you were there. They have full surveylance they have a small surveylanve room and somebody sits in there with a hand held radio and can talk to anybody else who works there at any time. They probably saw you pull up on the monitor and I'm not even suggesting that they were abusing a kid  at that precise time but I am suggesting that they stopped doing anything that they were doing that might appear inappropriate and even probably pretended that they didn't know you were there as to appear caught off guard as any master of manipulation and deception would do. I also might add that there are many monitors in the surveylance room as there are cameras everywhere. I guess is that they saw you pull up in the driveway. Sorry but your story while I do believe you, does not reassure me in the least.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 03, 2005, 09:50:00 AM

i am very aware of the security room.  i have seen it, and every time i have seen it, it was locked and no one was in there, so no....it is inaccurate to say they monitor the camaras all the time and talk to others "on the radio".  my goodness, you make it sound like it is a conspiracy people.  It is "bootcamp" and yes, bootcamp is not meant to be easy, that is why people choose to send their children to bootcamp.  I am sure you probably have drill instructors that are a bit more "gungho" than others, but it is that way in every day life, including your public schools, the jobs we work in, everywhere.  You simply CANNOT control everything every person does, unfortunately.  All you can do is remedy the situations when such situations are discovered.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 03, 2005, 10:16:00 AM

No, it is not "boot camp."

Real boot camp is run by the armed services to train soldiers.

The armed services actively screen out people with mental illnesses from going to boot camp in the first place, and if they find out, as they do fairly regularly, that someone somehow got through the screening and does have a mental illness, they discharge that person "for the good of the service" with no black mark on that person's record and send them home.

Real boot camp run by the real professionals recognizes that the harsh methods and deliberate mental stresses used are totally inappropriate to someone who is mentally ill.

Real boot camp run by the real professionals tests new recruits coming in the door to see if they are in good enough physical condition to start bootcamp.  If they are *not*, they get diverted to a pre-boot-camp that gets them in shape for boot camp at a measured, healthy pace designed by some of the best sports medicine professionals in the world to get them in condition for boot camp without causing them permanent injury.  The whole drill instructor mind game is not played in the pre-boot-camp when they're getting the out of shape recruits ready for boot camp.

Real boot camp is run by trained professionals---not just any old retired soldier, or even any old retired NCO.  Real boot camp is *designed* by the best minds in a large national armed service with a lot more institutional experience and institutional history than any Program "boot camp" out there, and with a lot more ability to follow the new soldiers after they get *out* of boot camp so that if something starts to go wrong at boot camp, the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marines know about it right away and can fix it.

Real boot camp may not be perfect, but it is a much more professional and finely tuned process than the half-assed imitations running out there with real live kids, many of them known to be mentally ill, thrown in as human guinea pigs in what is the modern equivalent of the old Patent Medicine Show con.

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 03, 2005, 10:59:00 AM

are you for real?  people with "mental illnesses" are not allowed into "bootcamp" because they dont want them in the "military"...not because they cant "handle" bootcamp.

I didn't say this was the "military's boot camp".  I said it was "A" boot camp, and the whole point of boot camp is the discipline and physical agility of it.  If you don't want your children enduring such, it is real simple people, don't send them!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 03, 2005, 04:20:00 PM

Except for getting into shape and learning how to withstand a barrage of verbal and emotional attack, just WHAT exactly is a bootcamp going to do, short of scaring them into not wanting to go back?

Web pages are like babies -- creation involves a level of enthusiasm that does not necessarily carry over into maintenance.
--Joe Chew

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: BB on February 03, 2005, 07:50:00 PM

Everyone especially including former studens whether boys or girls need to speak to your parents and tell them the truth about what you have witnessed at TLC.  The truth needs to come out and it will if we all come together and join and make the Bundy's accountable for their actions. The entire staff seems to be related to each other and they all cover up for each other. Isn't that what families are about. One thing I would like to know is the so called "inspirational tapes" were Joseph Smith which is Morman in origin.  Why wasn't this not told or our consent given to have them listen to this.  What research to the Bundy's have that their strict abuse helps our teenagers.  I regret sending my child their and will always live with the hurt and pain that the Bundy's and their Parent Help staff caused my family.  What research has the Bundy's done to prove that their method helps our teenagers.  I have research several other schools and schools like TLC are required by law to be licensed and they have to follow strict guidelines.  Why do you think that the Bundy's went to Missouri, because they knew that the State didn't require this and that is how they get away with what they are doing.  Why did the kids have to "close their eyes and put their heads down" when other kids were being hurt or "taken down". Why wasn't their a doctor on staff or on call for our kids. Why didn't they take the Reyes boy to see a doctor?  Why did he have to die to bring this place to light?  My heart goes out the them and I thank God that I picked up my son before this happened to him. We need all of you out their to come together and find a Hotline to report the Bundy's.  The reason why is all the stories are consistent and the truth has to come out.  The entire town of Hamilton, and surrounding little town, including law enforcements are supporting the Bundy's, Why because the Bundy's fund the town with our money. Like dirty cops. If you are an employee of the Bundy's who was let go becuase you didn't beleive in what they were doing then you need to speak up. The law enforcement in Hamilton make me sick because they are suppose to serve and protect everyone not just the ones who give them money.
I love my child and wanted help and was a very upset and confused parent and they took advantage of that and used that to their advantage and took my money.
I regret what I have done and my child has nightmares and beleive me your child needs to get this out in the open and maybe if we come together and make them accountable for what they have done and are still continuing to do we can rest with peace of mind.
Sincerely submitted

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 03, 2005, 08:19:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-02-03 07:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"are you for real?  people with "mental illnesses" are not allowed into "bootcamp" because they dont want them in the "military"...not because they cant "handle" bootcamp.



I didn't say this was the "military's boot camp".  I said it was "A" boot camp, and the whole point of boot camp is the discipline and physical agility of it.  If you don't want your children enduring such, it is real simple people, don't send them!"

Children aren't property.

NIMH has released a statement saying boot camps do not help mentally ill teens and in many cases harm them.

I'm not willing to let you send mentally ill children to one, either.  I want the laws changed so that if you do, not only will Child Protective Services go get the child and place him or her in foster care getting the mental health care he or she needs, I *also* want them to prosecute you and send you to jail.

This isn't just about your personal behavior or my personal behavior.  This is about wantonly and willfully putting mentally ill children in reckless and needless danger of further damage and harm.

*You* go to a boot camp if *you* want to go to one.  They make them as fantasy camp experiences for adults--kindof like dude ranches give a cowboy experience.

*I* will go or not, as *I* choose.

But if you try to send your children to one, knowing one or more kids you're sending is mentally ill, I want you put in jail.

You get freedom over your personal behavior, even if you might harm yourself by bungee jumping or scuba diving or motorcycling or eating twinkies or whatever.

You *don't* get freedom over harmful or recklessly negligent stuff you do to another person.

Having a child means you're *responsible* for caring for that child and providing for his basic needs until he's grown.

It doesn't mean you're his owner and privileged to do whatever *to* him against his will that you damned well please, no matter how damaging or injurious it is to him.

Knowingly put a mentally ill kid in a boot camp, or knowingly keep one there, go to jail.

That's what I want.

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 03, 2005, 08:28:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-02-03 07:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"are you for real?  people with "mental illnesses" are not allowed into "bootcamp" because they dont want them in the "military"...not because they cant "handle" bootcamp.



I didn't say this was the "military's boot camp".  I said it was "A" boot camp, and the whole point of boot camp is the discipline and physical agility of it.  If you don't want your children enduring such, it is real simple people, don't send them!"

It sounds like you don't know jack shit about the military.

Frequently, if a proven combat veteran *becomes* mentally ill in the military, they'll treat it and keep the soldier on.

The military doesn't want mentally ill people subjected to the stresses of boot camp or the stresses of combat because they can go apeshit with no damned warning and kill themselves or other people.

And because the stresses further damage them and make them *more* disabled and more of a drain on the military's resources to care for them.

As we'd say where I grew up, you're skinning your ignorance.

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Mrs. Doubtfire on February 03, 2005, 09:14:00 PM

I am so sorry you are suffering, but know that you and your son are on a better road now that he is out of TLC; and any thing and any place is better than where he was. Thank all the dieties, if you believe in them, that you came to your senses and listened to your gut sooner than later.  I too have asked why there is so much rhetoric on these sites and not more substantial action taken when everyone seems to be aware of the horrific abuses inflicted on our children at this and other dungeons.  Perhaps those who were the true victims and recipients of the violence don't know where to go; don't want to remember; are in fear from the abusers threats and their "long arm of abuses", or feel like "I got out and everyone else is on their own".  Until we walk in their shoes we cannot comment on their actions or inaction. It is just that after so much abuse, in so many different faciities, in so many states and countries you would think that the oppressed would join forces and defeat the wretched people. There are organizations, assocations, fraternities around the country that hold annual meetings, trade shows. Can you imagine if the abused gathered together and had a "million person march on St. George, Utah world headquarters of WWASP, with a couple ancillary marches on CEDU, Thayer and Aspen? What a delicious thought. After all, David did kill Goliath, so we can still hope.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 03, 2005, 10:25:00 PM

I was hoping Ivan would demolish Tranquility Bay. I have NEVER before (and hopefuly never again) cheered on a hurricane... unless one happens to be staring down the sights at a BM facility.

Yeah, a survivor/activist/parent march would be divine, but they'd just pull in their political and police connections to stop it.

Lighthouses are more helpful then churches.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2005, 01:42:00 AM

Hi this is Cadet Ramirez again or should I call myself Julia? I guess I do have a name afterall.It's just that everyday I remember more things that happened at Thayer. One evening we were cleaning our bins and a cadet whos name I won't mention started having an attack where she couldn't breathe. A sergeant told her to go lay down and left her there for about 2 hours. Drill sergeant Pikula came in and got really upset.She seemed scared for the cadet. I think it was Ms. Dorthy who took her to the dr. and she was diagnosed with asthma. When the cadet got back she told me that she thought she was going to die laying there.I wish I could remember the sergeants name who left her laying there but I just can't. They rotate so frequently. The weird thing is that this happened 2 days before Roberto Reyes died. Seems like it should have been a sign to take better care of us and not let us die. I'm sure this happening can be confirmed because she went to the hospital or somewhere for medical treatment. I'm not going to tell the name of the girl because she is still there and it's not her fault that I'm writing this and she shouldn't get into trouble because of me. It just really scared a bunch of us. We were crying because we were so scared for her. I'll write more if I remember anything. You can e-mail me at [email protected] I was at Thayer from 9-27-04 to 1-16-05 when my wonderful mother came to her senses and rescued me. She came and took me out of The Bundy Burning Boiller. If you want my whole story go back to 17 or 18 and I wrote most of my experience on there. I do remember more all the time though. I have nightmares sometimes that my mommy is dragging me back to Thayer by my hair and I'm naked. It's one of those dreams where i'm already back at Thayer but she's trying to get me there. In my dream I can see all the people there but I can't recognize most of them. When I wake up it disturbes me for a minute and then I realize that I'm not at thayer but I'm in my bed at home and I go back to sleep. I think it helps that my sisters sleep with me and I leave my door open. I don't think I could go to sleep without my little sisters. I'm sure that I would have more nightmares if they weren't there.I feel like I need a counselor to help. I don't think the same way I thought before I wen't to Thayer and that's not a good thing. At first my thoughts scared me but i've become used to them. I'm not going to share them because people might think I'm crazy. I will say that I never thought about these types of things before I went to Thayer. It actually makes me feel better to write this stuff down. I wish they would have let us use the journals they were suppose to let us have at Thayer. Having a diary has always helped me deal with life and at Thayer yuo're never allowed to write or talk about your feelings. It would be considered manipulation and you would be told to suck up your drama. I can hear it right now,"SUCK UP YOUR DRAMA CADET RAMIREZ" "WE DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL PROBLEMS" I hate these people. What would I be like if I'd been left there for a year? Maybe I would be beyond repair mentally. A model child. A yes mam no mam type but angry and hateful on the inside. I won't be surprised if someday a kid from thayer becomes some sort of a serial killer or something crazy because I feel a lot of rage that needs to come out from that place and that was in 4 months. I don't know how to make these feelings go away. I'm a pisces birth sign and some say I'm just to sensitive others say I'm a big manipulator (Thayer} Well maybe my mommy will get me some counseling and I can start dealing with it better. Iknow i'm big to call her mommy but it's a habit I can't seem to break. Well I feel better after sharing more of my story. I have a really great home school program and my teacherhas me write about my experiences. I think he might think it helps. The home school program wants me to get counseling so I can recover they said. Well i'm tired so see you later,Julia. I use my name by the way just to let the Bundys know that I'm not a bit affraid of them. Come after me Bundy Bitch and see what you get on my turf.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2005, 07:39:00 PM

hahhahaha i love it

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Mrs. Doubtfire on February 04, 2005, 10:58:00 PM

Nihl.... Perhaps, but the politico's and police didn't stop Martin Luther King or Women's Movement to get the right to vote, or the general public's demand in repealing prohibition.  When you get enough people behind something that is good and right, it can even bring down a President (remember Nixon?)

Most of us think our one voice in the darkness won't be heard, but put my voice together with yours and others, and you have one helluva choir!  Places like Thayer, CEDU,Tranquility Bay et. al are allowed to thrive because they have no opposition.

We have this forum and ISAC and a few other smaller, less organized venues; perhaps sending a donation to these organizations - who do amazing work in keeping these issues in front of the media - would be a way to start. If everyone who came to these boards just sent $1.00, it would help. There are fan clubs for entertainers and others that are better organized and raise more money than our advocates appear to have achieved. Can't we help them?

I would just like to read that after a few more of these places close down, the rest of them are so fearful of retaliation and retribution, they implode.  

It has to be a concerted effort because they have deep pockets. For a few of us to stand outside the St. George, Utah headquarters of WWASP is like trying to stop the "johns" from soliciting prostitutes in the seedy side of town with a flashlight and a sign saying "shame on you". It won't make much of an impact. But get a couple hundred of us together and you've got national news coverage.

Do you realize that at Thayer alone, they have approximatly 100 "inmates", @ $4000/per month, per student that is $400,000 a month or $5.4 million dollar a year. That's just one dungeon!!!!! Multiply that by the number of dungeons out there and you can see how they have the dollars to contribute to the power brokers.

They steal the new recruits clothing, bedding, personal hygiene products, so all they have to do is feed them that swill they call food. No medical attention, no nurse/doctor, no teachers salary, no books, no school supplies, no psychologist, no drug counselling, no soap or water for bathing or laundry. They hired a bunch of society rejects,never do a back ground check on these employees, are they pedophiles? sadist? do they have police records? educated, have expertise or experience in child behavorial issues? Then pay them $8 an hour and turn them loose on our children to admonish them, belittle them, beat the spirit out of them, prevent them from furthering their education, deny them medical attention and if they get lucky, kill one of them and not have to go to jail for it.

They do have the additional cost of paying off the local constables and town folks. Not a bad return on their investment for the slave labor of their own recruits.  

I suppose I am just a pollyanna and believe that good should always overcome evil, and children shouldn't die in filthy, dark holes lying not on a warm blanket, but in their own excrement, a thousand miles away from their families.

I have great difficulty with that imagine; it haunts me and my heart breaks for his family. Their pain must be excruciating and their sorrow inconsolable.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 04, 2005, 11:47:00 PM

Sooner or later someone is gonna flip out who was a victim and just blow a few brains out, if it takes too long to end this fiasco.

I, too, think good will win. Simply because no conspiracy lasts forever. EVER. The only constant is change. Plus, I think it is totally wrong for CHILDREN to be tortured so horrifically.

The real problem is america itself. People are too apathetic now. I tell people about this and a lot of them tell me "oh bad shit happens all over the world" or "kids are starving in ethiopia, why dont you go save them". So it comes down to either 1. they dont care about anything 2. they could somehow name a worse situation thats irrelevant to this one, and because they can think of something worse, in their mind, you shouldnt fix the lesser problem... or whatever.

*sighs* oh well. At least chi3 got her girl out. That gave me a lot of hope for the future.

For the most part we inherit our opinions. We are the heirs of habits and mental customs. Our beliefs, like the fashion of our garments, depend on where we were born. We are molded and fashioned by our surroundings.
--Environment is a sculptor -- a painter.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2005, 12:49:00 AM

which one of you females were sent their, because got caught having sex?if so i have an offer for you, i will pay you 150 bux 2 let me fuk u.im 13 so u have 2 be under 18 or else youll get in trouble and i dont wand that to happen.holler

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2005, 02:33:00 PM

Sat, Feb 05, 2005 Kansas city Star
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/10822151 (http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/10822151)
Roberts Reyes parents are suing Thayer Learning Center LLC.  They are stating that Roberto was subjected to physical exertion and abuse that caused or contributed to his death.  The lawsuit stated that he was dragged, hit, placed into solitary confinement and "forced to lay in his own excrement for extened periods of time". Employees named in the lawsuit are Richard Sperry of Chillicothe, Robert Carter of Kidder and Dave Swymeler of St. Joseph. The lawsuit was filed in Buchanan County.  The lawsuit states that Roberto "was subjected to sadistic, cruel and harmful acts."  The lawsuit stated that Roberto's compaints were treated as "games and ploys, despite an inability to walk, deteriorating respiratory status and diminshing mental and cognitive function."  The lawsuit also says Roberto was left "to die alone.........
with a feeling of utter hopelessness." Also stated Thayer "engages in a pattern and practice of inflicting physical and emotional harm to children under its care."
Courtesy of Tim Rocha

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Mrs. Doubtfire on February 05, 2005, 06:48:00 PM

Julia:  You keep it up girl.  I love your spirit and your courage. You have no idea how much your experience will help other kids from being sent to that place; and maybe along the way get some parents to WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROTTEN BUNDY'S.

Don't give in and don't give up.  Stay strong, stay focused and maybe you will find that your goal in life is to help pull others left behind up to the surface where you can all fight the good fight. There are worse things than being an advocate for your fellow human beings.

The lawsuit has been filed and we can only pray you and others like you will support the Reyes in their quest to rid the world of Thayer Learning Center and put the Bundy's in jail for a looooooooooooong, loooooooooooooong time.

Keep talking girl, just keep talking!!! You are wonderful.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: miseducated on February 05, 2005, 11:28:00 PM

Sorry, I'm new on this thread, so maybe I am repeating others' sentiments already expressed:

I will not be satisfied with this story until criminal charges are filed, the criminals are tried and convicted and are serving time in prison for murder, and Thayer Learning Center is closed down.

You know why I think it is still open? Because teenagers are not seen to be children, therefore they do not deserve the protection that would normally be given to children. These teenagers are seen as Bad, so it is allowed.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 06, 2005, 02:31:00 PM

This country is rather fond of screwing over teenagers both ways. And by both I mean this:

They're legally responsible in criminal court, but do NOT get any of the rights or priviladges of adults. So, all the responsibility, but still only have the power, opportunity, and rights of a child.

So, they cant drive, cant buy this or that, cant drink, cant smoke, and have to be told what to do, but they sure as hell can be punished as if they were adults... while at the same time being told they ARENT able to make adult decisions!

I for one am damn glad I'm 20 now. I would not go back and be a kid again, for neither love nor fortune. I'd shoot myself or jump out a window first. UGH.

Boundary, n.  In political geography, an imaginary line between two nations, separating the imaginary rights of one from the imaginary rights of another.
-- Ambrose Bierce,  The Devil's Dictionary

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: finlyrite on February 06, 2005, 03:27:00 PM

My child was there and can attest that when the owners knew visitors were coming -- the cadets were told to  pick up pieces of dust and lint from the carpet with their fingers.  Cadets were told to lie to their parents when faced with mistakes made at Thayer.  I don't blame the kids for not posting their names - others have already been sued for defamation.  I was also threatened by the Bundy's for not supporting their "program".  I can't tell you the number of lies coming from the adults that run this program - giving the cadets a good example?  oh please.....

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: finlyrite on February 06, 2005, 03:34:00 PM

There have been many children taken out of Thayer!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: finlyrite on February 06, 2005, 03:38:00 PM

More brainwashing....and you believe it was alcohol withdrawal?  Sounds like a Bundy statement.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: finlyrite on February 06, 2005, 03:44:00 PM

I agree.  My child was at Thayer - no reform there - just social disfunction.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: finlyrite on February 06, 2005, 03:46:00 PM

Oh yea, I have had discussions with Willa Bundy.  She says what you want to hear to your face and stabs you in the back.  If she was running a professional business in keeping with their promises, this web site would not exist.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: finlyrite on February 06, 2005, 03:50:00 PM

Amen...

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: finlyrite on February 06, 2005, 03:53:00 PM

I sent my child to Thayer and I agree 100%.  $4000 a month with inconsistent discipline, uncleanliness and being shown how to lie and manipulate with no education afforded is a joke and a fraud.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2005, 04:21:00 PM

everything they are saying about thayer is true.  i just "rescued" my son from there yesterday after only having been there a week.  in talking to the family rep every day (which you arent supposed to do) i knew something wasnt right.  they give you this long list of things to bring, but dont give it any of it to the kids.  i.e, three tubes of toothpaste....you know what my son used?  baking soda and water.  their so called "healthy balanced diet", his breakfast yesterday....wheat seeds and water....why?  because wheat expands and gives the illusion that you are full, so they dont have to feed them more..lunch was ONE peanut butter and jelly sandwich...dinner was some kind of slop that he wasnt even sure what was in it.

how do they call that healthy?

he was soooo hungry when i picked him up yesterday he ate the following: chicken nuggets, french fries, two fruit salads, chicken strips, burritos, candy bar, potatoe chips and two peanut butter and jelly sandwiches..and was STILL hungry, but i wouldnt let him eat more for fear of getting sick from over doing it.

he has bruises and cuts all on his body, and he was only there a week.  his left ankle is swollen up like a baseball, but yet they kept working him to death...his chest hurts so bad that he has difficulty breathing (probably from the repeated slams to the floor for looking someone in the face).  i was so worried about his breathing, especially after the reyes incident, i spent half the night just watching his chest last night.

this is ridiculous and needs to be stopped!  thank goodness i came to my senses (call it mother's intuition) and went and got him after only a week.  

he was crying so hysterically when he saw me yesterday that he couldnt even talk and was literally choking himself on his tears!  

pitifull!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 06, 2005, 05:01:00 PM

GET A DAMN ACCOUNT!

Email or contact us somehow, or give a private message, or get in a AIM YIM MSN thing, or give your # so we can call.

TELL THIS TO http://www.isaccorp.org (http://www.isaccorp.org)!

Take pictures, or hell, go to the COPS and get THEM to take pics of this as evidence. His bruises and hunger and apperance is evidence. Yes, its sad that this happened to your son, but that hes out to testify through his survival and apperance and words  can help stop this from happening to other kids.

*PLEASE*

Religion is based . . . mainly on fear . . . fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand. . . . My own view on religion is that of Lucretius. I regard it as a disease born of fear and as a source of untold misery to the human race.
--Bertrand Russell, British philosopher, educator, mathemetician, and social critic

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on February 06, 2005, 06:07:00 PM

What tipped you off? Not a rhetorical question. Please tell us what worked to let you know something wasn't right? Just let us know, we'll try to make more of it happen! :wink: And what sold you on the place in the first place?

I look forward to hearning more from you. Yes, do look into legal/criminal proceedings for this. Weigh it out and do it all the way or not; your call. But, either way, I hope you'll contribute some of your experience in this forum so that people in your situation can get a heads up.

BTW, you're already a hero/heroine to a lot of us by default. Many of us daydreamed about one or the other parent coming to our rescue. You actually did it.

Thanks,
Ginger

Fear believes--courage doubts. Fear falls up the earth and prays--- courage stands erect and thinks. Fear is barbarism---courage is civilization. Fear believes in witchcraft, devils and ghosts. Fear is religion, courage is science.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2005, 06:48:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-02-06 15:07:00, Antigen wrote:


BTW, you're already a hero/heroine to a lot of us by default. Many of us daydreamed about one or the other parent coming to our rescue. You actually did it.



Thanks,

Ginger

 :nworthy:  :nworthy: You have no idea what it does for my heart every time I hear a story like this, and its only been recently that its begun to happen.  Thank you for saving your child.  Thank you for saving a part of my heart.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Mrs. Doubtfire on February 06, 2005, 07:10:00 PM

Thank you for saving your child and acting on your intuition - nothing is stronger than the true love of a caring and concerned mother when she feels her child is in danger, while the bad guys in the world are telling her everything is alright.

My heart is still breaking because of circumstances out of my contol, but your story gave me what I have been praying to see on this board... HOPE.

See, Nihilanthic - this is what I was looking for and you said it could happen. Hope is not in vain.

I can only pray that other parents will believe this parent and the children who were rescued and go get their children out of this cell pool!

It's beginning.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2005, 09:07:00 PM

YEAH! Another child rescued from Bundy Hell NO I mean BUNDY HELL. Please other parents go get your kids. I've been through the hell and this person who just rescued her kid isn't exaggerating. It's freaking unbelievable what goes on there. I have a really strict mom so the strictness wasn't new to me but the abuse let me tell ya it's no joke. Kids get physically hurt there all the time. I think to them taking kids down is like a sport or something. They actually enjoy hurting us. What's wrong with these sick bastards? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE believe us, we're not angry and defiant and being manipulating like the Bundys will tell you. This shit is for real. Another kid will die I guarantee it. It doesen't even sound like they have slowed down on the abuse which is scary. You'd think that after a kid was killed they'd be a little bit affraid to keep doing what they do but it looks like it's the same old shit as usual. And let me tell you I haven't quit eating sense I left there. I did the same thing the kid up above did when I got out. I ate everything in sight and haven't quit. Mommy tells me I'm getting fat but I don't care. I'd rather get fat than feel like I'm starving to death. Well gotta go now, Julia [email protected] or call me at 707-527-7628, once again Bundy Bitch I know you're reading this and I'm not affraid of you any more or that little gun you use to intimidate the kids with. In fact GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU FUCKING BITCH. Sorry all you innocent ears out there but I've been dying to say that.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: chi3 on February 06, 2005, 09:13:00 PM

you guys gave me that last little boost I needed to go and get my daughter, so that makes 2 saved kids this month! It definately makes this site a very worthy thing, indeed! I am absolutely sick hearing what happened to this child in a span of a week. How could those other parents be so blind? Don't they ever get to see their kids at all there? No pictures? I can't believe that the parents aren't seeing this after their kids being there awhile! I am so glad this parent had the same feeling I did and went and got their child. I am also curious as to how she got the "vibe" to go and get him.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2005, 10:16:00 PM

Sorry for my daughters language. She gets a little worked up as well as I do. But anyway, I'm overjoyed that you got your son out of that pit. God only knows what he may have been forced to endure if all that happened in just one week. Well take care of yourself and your son and tell him from me that he's a trooper. Anything in life that he feels he can't endure remind him he's already endured life at it's worst. If you can handle a week of Bundy Hell you can handle anything. I truely mean this. I don't think it gets worse than the experiences that go on at this place. Well God Bless YOU Both and take care.PIA [email protected] or 707-527-7628 contact me anytime and this goes for anybody else who happens to read this.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2005, 10:29:00 PM

Actually at least 5 kids have been saved in the last month but that's not enough. We need to not stop until all the kids are saved. Please parents who get there kids out please get involved in getting the rest out. Please don't be one of the ones who says"Well I got my kid" and for get about the rest. Remember there are still kids in there going through exactly what your kid went through and if it wasn't for the rest of us fighting for your kids you may not have found out what was really going on until it was to late so when you remember this please do your part to help the others.Thank You PIA [email protected] or feel free to call me collect if you have to at 707-527-7628

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2005, 11:14:00 PM

thsnk you for all you have done .  God Bless you

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on February 07, 2005, 09:53:00 AM

ok, i am the mother who posted the story of her son above...i have registered now.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on February 07, 2005, 09:57:00 AM

Quote

On 2005-02-06 15:07:00, Antigen wrote:

"What tipped you off? Not a rhetorical question. Please tell us what worked to let you know something wasn't right? Just let us know, we'll try to make more of it happen! :wink: And what sold you on the place in the first place?



I look forward to hearning more from you. Yes, do look into legal/criminal proceedings for this. Weigh it out and do it all the way or not; your call. But, either way, I hope you'll contribute some of your experience in this forum so that people in your situation can get a heads up.



BTW, you're already a hero/heroine to a lot of us by default. Many of us daydreamed about one or the other parent coming to our rescue. You actually did it.



Thanks,

Ginger

Fear believes--courage doubts. Fear falls up the earth and prays--- courage stands erect and thinks. Fear is barbarism---courage is civilization. Fear believes in witchcraft, devils and ghosts. Fear is religion, courage is science.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer

"

the tip was stuff i read on here, so i just did some more research...then in my conversations with the school over the week, i just had a bad feeling that something wasnt right..call it mother's intution.....people think that is a crock, but mother's intuition really does exist, and probably saved my son's life!.

BTW, yall would be interested to know we are from the Houston area and the story about the Reyes lawsuit was even in our local paper today!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on February 07, 2005, 09:58:00 AM

Quote

On 2005-02-06 18:13:00, chi3 wrote:

"you guys gave me that last little boost I needed to go and get my daughter, so that makes 2 saved kids this month! It definately makes this site a very worthy thing, indeed! I am absolutely sick hearing what happened to this child in a span of a week. How could those other parents be so blind? Don't they ever get to see their kids at all there? No pictures? I can't believe that the parents aren't seeing this after their kids being there awhile! I am so glad this parent had the same feeling I did and went and got their child. I am also curious as to how she got the "vibe" to go and get him."

s

the initial vibe came from this website, after reding some of the posts on here i did some more research....then, following that, in conversations with teh school and the parent help organization, something just didnt feel right!

when did you go get your daugther?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Deborah on February 07, 2005, 10:29:00 AM

Never discount your hunches.
In a half awake state, I had an image of my son being sodimized. I knew he was headed for a military academy in a few weeks, against my wishes, so this got my attention and prompted the 'how to stay safe' talk.
One week after my son arrived mid-term an oldtimer befriended him and his buddy. He divulged that the dorm officer had been molesting the boys. My son and his friend reported this and the guy is serving a 95 year sentence. Had been in trouble before and was working under an alias.

If that sounds weird... the night that this was announced on the local news I got an impulse to turn on the tv, something I never did. Two minutes later it was announced.

There has been yet another incident of sexual misconduct since then.

http://www.baptiststandard.com/2000/1_2 ... arcos.html (http://www.baptiststandard.com/2000/1_26/pages/sanmarcos.html)
http://www.amarillonet.com/stories/0106 ... ther.shtml (http://www.amarillonet.com/stories/010602/tex_studentmother.shtml)

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Erinys on February 07, 2005, 02:59:00 PM

The more the word gets out the better.  Here's another site that may dicuss these crimes.

http://www.crimenews2000.com/ (http://www.crimenews2000.com/)

T Rocha (posting 2/5) and Girlfriday:
I copied the links you posted and will submit them to the above site if there is no objection on your part.

It was news story I just happened to see, that made me skip a free trip to Fla. about 2 decades ago. Glad I did.

Cops; you wake `em up you gotta dance with `em. They lead.
-- Jack McNulty

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2005, 03:03:00 PM

I went on http://www.baptiststandard.com (http://www.baptiststandard.com) and I'ts sad what happened at San Marcos Academy but look at what they did about it. The perpetrator was fired immediately, all families were contacted, charges were pressed and the program is clearly sorry that this happened and isn't trying to hide anything at least that I can see. This is how The Bundys should be acting lf they truley had nothing to hide. To my knowledge they haven't even appologized to the Reyes family, at least not publicly anyway. Their attitude in my opinion is very self richeous,like they've done and are doing nothing wrong and plan to keep doing just as they've done all along,. Abuse innocent children. O.K I know some of you don't consider these children innocent or they wouldn't be there but my point is nobody deserves to get abused on a daily basis or even killed. Look at the kid who was just taken out last weekend. If his mother did those things to him at home he'd be taken away and she'd probably go to jail but it's O.K. for the people who work for the Bundys to do this stuff and it's O.K. I don't think so. SORRY

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2005, 05:55:00 PM

If your're a parent and your child was at Thayer when the Reyes boy died which was 11-03-04, and your child should be getting released any time now and they keep coming up with reasons to keep them there please question this. The Bundys are for obvious reasons not going to want to release any of the kids who know what happened those dreadful couple of weeks that Roberto was there. Please, if your child is already out and knows something have them contact [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]) contact me any time.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2005, 09:31:00 PM

I just wanted to say that i saw that you were talking about San Marcos Academy, and comparing it to tlc, and i think thats really wierd b/c i was in both of those programs when things went wrong. i was at san marcos when the whole incident happened with the RA and him molesting a 17 year old kid, and i knew him, i was friends with the kid, and i was at tlc when reyes was killed, and i agree that tlc should be handling the situation like san marcos did.  instead of hiding and telling lies about everything, they need face the fact that they basically killed a boy, and face the punishment for it. and they should call parents and let them know what really happened, and if they arent gonna do that then its up to us to keep letting people know the truth about what goes on there, and hopefully more people will realize how horrible of a place it really is.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on February 07, 2005, 09:47:00 PM

Darlin', you've probably begun to realize that this sort of thing can and does happen at a lot of these troubled parent quack therapy camps. And that it is a rare and wonderful thing to have an investigator w/ real legal authority sincerely interested in finding out what happened and dispensing some justice.

Please, please contact the investigator. Check ID and verify that they are who they say they are before answering questions. That's no disrespectuful or rude, it's just prudent. If everything checks out, then by all means answer their questions under oath so that something can be done here.

Thanks for speaking up!

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark.  The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.  
--Plato

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: TLCNOMORE on February 07, 2005, 11:59:00 PM

I finally got a user name. I just thought I'd try it out. Just to let you all know sinse last Fridays filing from what I've heard the media is attacking TLC like a pack of wolves. Iknow for a fact ca. got ahold of it and Texas as well. If you don't know what the heck I'm talking about I'm talking about the law suit Reyes vs Thayer Learning Center. YOU GO REYES FAMILY! We're all behind you 1000% Pia

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2005, 12:12:00 AM

Yeh, but $25,000?
Was that a typo which should have been $250,000? Minimum!!!!!
What's up with that? Are they only entitled to the money they paid Thayer to kill their son?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: TLCNOMORE on February 08, 2005, 12:13:00 AM

No you're just a little smart ass who should go back to tlc for another round if you think it's so great there. For a minute I respected your opinion until I read a few smart ass remarks you had to say. I thought the program was suppose to program you to be respectful?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: TLCNOMORE on February 08, 2005, 12:16:00 AM

Sorr for what i just wrote. I was responding to something I read quite a few columns back and I thought it would come up as well. My mistake. I'm really tired. Ibetter just go to bed now.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: TLCNOMORE on February 08, 2005, 12:23:00 AM

One more thing. $250,000, what's up with that? I'm thinking millions or they should own the place or something. $25,000 my ass they better get awhole lot more than that. In CA. that doesn't even cover the loss of a leg let alone the loss of a child.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on February 08, 2005, 12:27:00 AM

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&t ... yes+Thayer (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=Reyes+Thayer)

Well, 5 hits right now. Not exactly the next stained blue dress story, but it certainly is encouraging!

Thanks for the heads up, TLCnomore. G'night now.  :smile:

My initial response was to sue her for defamation of character, but then I realized that I had no character.
-- Charles Barkley, on hearing Tonya Harding proclaim herself "the Charles Barkley of figure skating"

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: chi3 on February 08, 2005, 03:52:00 AM

To TLCrescue,

I am responding to the question a couple of pages back, I think. You asked when did I go and get my daughter.We picked our daughter from a WWASPS program the last week of January. It was the best thing for us. I am sooo glad we did. I knew something wasn't right, the old mother's intuition, and everyday until we got her I got more and more anxious. She is o.k., wasn't there very long and wasn't touched physically at all, but she needed out of the mind control. Please everyone who has their kids in any of these type of programs, PLEASE GO AND GET THEM!!! You will work it out when they get home. They are not being treated the way you think. Please, please go and get them.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on February 08, 2005, 10:04:00 AM

I know what you mean about the anxiety.  My son was only there a week, but each and every day the anxiety got worse and worse.  I wasn't eating at all, I was barely sleeping and it started making me physically ill.  I KNEW I had to do something.  When we returned back home I took my son to be checked out by a doctor because of his various pain complaints.  Turns out, he has a fractured ankle.  One of the drill seargents kept twisting his ankle so hard that it broke it.  Then, when my son tried to tell them something was wrong with his ankle, they ignored him and made him continue to exercise 14 hours a day!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on February 08, 2005, 10:15:00 AM

in response to questions about the dollar amount in the lawsuit..while I have not personally seen the petition filed in this suit, my best guess would be the $25,000 is the "actual" damages they have incurred, i.e, money spent on the school, funeral expenses, etc.  When it comes to "punitive" and "exemplary" damages, there is no set dollar amount, that is determined soley at the discretion of the jury.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Mrs. Doubtfire on February 08, 2005, 11:35:00 AM

SUE THEM!!!!! SUE THEM FOR ASSAULT ON YOUR CHILD'S ANKLE....THEY BROKE/SPRAINED IT, REQUIRING MEDICAL ATTENTION!!!! SUE THEM!!!!!

MY GAWD, WILL YOU PEOPLE NOT MAKE THAYER RESPONSIBLE FOR HARMING YOUR CHILDREN? IS THIS WHAT YOU PAID THEM $50-60,000 TO DO TO YOUR CHILD?

WILL YOU ONLY SUE IF YOUR CHILD IS KILLED LIKE THE REYES BOY??? GO AFTER THESE BASTARDS!! THEY THINK IT IS OK TO BEHAVE THIS WAY BECAUSE THERE ARE NO RAMIFICATION TO THEIR ACTIONS.

DON'T YOU HAVE NIGHTMARES ABOUT THIS PLACE?
 I DO.

IF YOU BROKE YOUR CHILD'S ANKLE, YOU WOULD BE IN JAIL!!!!!

SUE THEM!!!! LITIGATION SUITS DON'T COST ANYTHING TO FILE!!!! SUE THEM!  FIND AN ATTORNEY WHO WILL MAKE IT HIS LIFE'S WORK TO GO AFTER THE BUNDY'S AND WWASP's OF THE WORLD!!! THEY WOULD BE RICH, GET A GOOD SEAT IN HEAVEN FOR THEIR GOOD DEEDS AND WE MIGHT SAVE A FEW OF OUR CHILDREN.

BUT PLEASE HURRY!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Mrs. Doubtfire on February 08, 2005, 11:40:00 AM

The lawsuit damage amount of $25,000 is a minimum, leaving wide open the options of filing for any amount the defense attorney thinks he can get for the Reyes Family.  

I hope they take every last cent the Bundy's have, but we all know the Bundy money is probably already hidden in accounts more obtuse and obscure than the catacombs of London.

Put the IRS on them and the US Postal Inspectors for not allowing our mail to go through, or gifts or.....

Hiding money, and opening mail that is not yours is against the law!  A FEDERAL LAW!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2005, 12:20:00 PM

any damage reward would be paid for by the insurance company.  this wouldnt hurt them financialy.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2005, 03:02:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-02-08 09:20:00, Anonymous wrote:

"any damage reward would be paid for by the insurance company.  this wouldnt hurt them financialy."

*If* they're insured.  For all we know, it's possible that no insurance company would touch them with a stick.  *If* the details of their insurance policy cover this kind of misbehavior.

And even so, if the insurer has to pay out a big award, they'll cancel the policy and it may be difficult to impossible for Thayer to find another insurer---leaving them wide open to personally having to fund the damages in future lawsuits.

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2005, 07:44:00 PM

IF YOU OR YOUR CHILD HAS BEEN A VICTIM OF TLC AND/OR PARENT HELP PLEASE CONTACT ME ASAP
[email protected]

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on February 09, 2005, 10:52:00 AM

Quote

On 2005-02-08 16:44:00, Anonymous wrote:

"IF YOU OR YOUR CHILD HAS BEEN A VICTIM OF TLC AND/OR PARENT HELP PLEASE CONTACT ME ASAP

[email protected]"

who are you?  i dont know if you have noticed or not, but alot of people are reluctant to talk to someone on here if they dont know who they are.  many are tied to thayer and have alternative motives behind such a request.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Erinys on February 09, 2005, 11:34:00 AM

Media contact. TV News team looking for sources:

Contact Us: Do you know someone who currently attends or once attended the Thayer Learning Center Boot Camp and Boarding School? If so, we want to hear from you. Call us at (913) 677-7211 or e-mail http://www.kctv5.com/Global/story.asp?S=2549570 (http://www.kctv5.com/Global/story.asp?S=2549570)

The most important bill in our whole code is that for the diffusion of
knowledge among the people. No other sure foundation can be devised, for the preservation of freedom and happiness.

--Thomas Jefferson

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 09, 2005, 09:47:00 PM

Why would anybody contact you? You could be Willa Bundy's cousin or something. Where are you from? Do you have a kid that went to Thayer? And if so how long ago? What's your story? Is your kid still there if you have one? Come on! get real! Identify yourself or go away because anybody without an idenity can't be trusted. Sorry.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 09, 2005, 11:33:00 PM

http://www.isaccorp.org (http://www.isaccorp.org)

For myself, I do not believe in any revelation. As for a future life, every man must judge for himself between conflicting vague probabilities.
--Charles Robert Darwin, English naturalist

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2005, 09:38:00 AM

Absolutely Agree. Go to ISAC first.

But where are all the parents and their rescued children that escaped TLC recently.  Where are their voices? Why can't you tell us what is going on in there, or don't you care about those you left behind because, you got out! The only one who speaks is Julia. She is not afraid of them.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on February 10, 2005, 09:47:00 AM

Julia isn't the only one.  I recently told my story of my son's rescue less than a week ago...go back a few pages.....

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2005, 10:48:00 AM

SO SORRY, I understand that none of you trust anyone- ME EITHER!!!
Here is my story...
My son was at TLC for three months in 2003.  We pulled him out because of MANY alarming discrepancies in our phone conversations.  We learned from our son about alot of abuse he witnessed, and he was medically neglected in two separate incidents.  We sent a complaint and complete file to the Attorney General outlining the MANY things we knew (Including misrepresentation(s), fraudulent information, the link between Parent Help and TLC, the link between Bundy's and WWASP, on and on.  They sent our file to the Child Prot. Svcs., they did an investgation and concluded in the end there was NOTHING they could do because TLC WOULD NOT COOPERATE- I have this IN WRITING!!  So, that's our story.  My son is now of age and we are looking for people who have been victims to talk to and to join our case.  
So, I hope now you know you can trust me, but if you still don't believe me please contact Tim Rocha- I have spoken with him, I have also made contact with Steve Rock, reporter KCS, and with Mr. Thompson, the Reyes attorney to tell him our story.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2005, 11:14:00 AM

I JUST WROTE THE POST EXPLAINING OUR STORY AFTER PEOPLE SAYING THEY DON'T TRUST ANYONE...
I JUST WANTED TO ADD MY CONTACT INFORMATION AGAIN:
[email protected]
(I am the same person who had "contact me" in the subject topic.)
I just obtained a user name:
SPEAKINGOUT and will sign on with that name from now on.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on February 10, 2005, 11:35:00 AM

I just sent you a private email.  Please read and reply to me through there.  Thanks!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2005, 05:24:00 PM

This is Julia. How is everyone? I was wondering if anyone could help me with something? I have been having horrible nightmares of TLC. They all have Ms. Willa or Drill sgt. Caro in them. I wake up and i am scared shitless. Then i realize i am fine and it all goes away until ihave another one. How do i get that crazy bitch out of my dreams or should i say night mares or the other fool? This shit is weird.
For anyone who is new to this site take your kids out if you haven't already and don't be fooled by The Bundy clan. I am not even joking a little bit. From my own estimate there is probably a 95% chance your kid is being treated like shit or is witnessing it. Do you really want your kids to go thru or witnes this kind of stuff. I know what it's like and it's not fun not even a little bit. when i left there i was mean in a way i didn't feel bad for anyone or anything i had no feeling exept hunger. I even laughed at my mom when she fell and twisted her foot. I made myself sick because i didn't know what the heck was wrong with me. I don't usually  act like that.-julia-
P.s Ms. kristy if you read this I want you to know i don't roll my eyes at people and i want my white GAP coat back! ASAP. I suspect you are wearing it right now as you read this! So please take it off and put it in the mail. -julia aka eye roller- NOT!!!!!!!!!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Deborah on February 10, 2005, 06:58:00 PM

Julia,
For years I had a recurring dream which stemmed from a frightening event in childhood. May sound weird, but the way I got over it was a little talk therapy and 'takin control of my dreams'. It can be done. When I'd get into a scarey situation, I'd just remember (while asleep) that it was a dream, that I was in control and could end it at anytime. Most times I would wake myself up. After a while, I just remembered and ended the dream. It was really cool!!

Short of that. I've heard that EMDR is a successful therapy for 'PTSD'. There's lots about it on the web.

My opinion of 'what was wrong with you' was that you still resented your mom (and the program) for the way you'd been treated (disrespectfully), and found some pleasure in her getting hurt. You obviously couldn't hurt her yourself. That resentment can often get misplaced onto anyone who acts the least disrespectful to you. It's one reaction to having been abused and forced to be quiet about it- or it was for my son.

Anyway, try the dream thing and see how it works. Let us know how it's going. Time and distance are also good for recovery.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2005, 08:18:00 PM

Hi this is Julia.Could you please tell me what EMDR is. I've never heard of this. Thank you Julia

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Deborah on February 10, 2005, 09:36:00 PM

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=emdr (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=emdr)

From the EMDR Institute:
What is it?
http://www.emdr.com/briefdes.htm (http://www.emdr.com/briefdes.htm)
PTSD Research:
http://www.emdr.com/sumofptsd.htm (http://www.emdr.com/sumofptsd.htm)

Three studies1,2,3 have indicated an elimination of posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) diagnosis in 77-90% of civilian participants after three to seven sessions. Other studies using participants with PTSD4,5,6 have found significant decreases in a wide range of symptoms after two or three active treatment sessions. Treatment effects are well maintained at follow-up assessments. For example, one study reported an 84% remission of PTSD diagnosis at 15 month follow-up7.

Studies using waitlist controls found EMDR superior; studies comparing EMDR to commonly used treatments such as biofeedback assisted relaxation8, active listening5, and various forms of individual therapy in a Kaiser Permanente HMO facility2 found EMDR superior to the control condition on measures of posttraumatic stress.

Five randomized clinical trials have compared EMDR to exposure therapies4,9,15 and to cognitive therapies plus exposure1,10. These studies have found substantially no difference between EMDR and the cognitive/behavioral (CBT) control, with a superiority in two studies for EMDR on measures of PTSD intrusive symptoms and in one for CBT (using imaginal and therapist-assisted in vivo exposure) on intrusion and avoidance. There were two controlled studies without randomization; one11 found the CBT condition superior to EMDR and the other12 found EMDR superior to the CBT control on multiple measures. EMDR is more efficient than CBT, as it does not require homework and some studies have indicated that it may also take fewer sessions. Treatment effects have generally been well maintained. [For more information, see Comparison of EMDR and Cognitive Behavioral Therapies].

Several controlled field studies have tested EMDR in community settings such as low cost agencies5, an HMO facility2 and a university based clinic serving the outside community4. Such studies, which reported good results, have excellent external validity. In the only controlled study that has treated disaster-related PTSD13 , school children?s PTSD symptoms were markedly reduced after EMDR treatment, with an improvement in overall health measured by fewer health visits to the school nurse. This was also the first controlled outcome study of any treatment for children with PTSD.

Studies with combat veterans were hampered by insufficient treatment time and fidelity to treatment. The only randomized study using the 12 session suggested minimum treatment14 indicated that 77% of the Vietnam veterans no longer had PTSD after the 12 sessions8. A post hoc analysis of a PTSD program in the VA found a superiority of EMDR over the two other treatments used.16

EMDR has been recognized as an efficacious treatment for PTSD [See Efficacy of EMDR].

For more information about each of these studies, see Studies Investigating EMDR Treatment of PTSD

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 12, 2005, 11:43:00 PM

On Feb 12, 2005

Another student has been removed from Thayer Learning Center.  All of the same accusations apply.  
Mentally beaten these children down.  
No counseling.
Getting smoked for a wrong LOOK.  
Getting smoked for having popcorn kernals in their socks.
Bathing in cold water, NO HOT WATER ALOUD
PLEASE .......
They have not changed either have their employyes that they've had for any length of time.  
Anyone promised that these children had a Christmas were lied to. Do you know what they got for Christmas   SMOKED

REMOVE YOUR CHILDREN IMMEDIATELY

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2005, 02:07:00 AM

You're exactly right about the Christmas thing. Not even the root beer they were promised, the boys anyway. Thanks a-lot Mr Jake you f..... prick. Go back a few pages and read the accounts from Cadet Ramirez-Julia and Cadet Regulatario if you want to know first hand what goes on in that hell hole and what happened to the Reyes boy. Yeah I mean the unsensored version, not oh the poor thing died of a spider bite version but what really happened to the poor kid and how he died. And for all you people who don't believe it just get your heads out of your asses for a minute and think about the similarities of all the kids stories and how at Thayer they aren't allowed to have personal conversations with each other so tell me how in the freakin hell do these kids come up with the same shit over and over again. Oh that's right there's a little fly that buzzes around and tells each kid what to say. I don't think so. Show up at there door unannounced and there's a 1% chance it won't be locked and if it's not walk in and just see what goes on for yourself. I dare you. If you can afford the program than you must have the money to just fly out there and check it out. I bet you don't get invited in. The place is full of dirty little secrets and if Missouri was a civilized state they'd go raid the place and have laws to back them up. But no. If they did that the Bundys would probably sue them and I laugh when I say this they would probably win. How dare you try to stop us from abusing and killing these difiant little heathens. That'll be $1,000,000.00 please. I'm sorry but I almost think that Missouri is a bigger joke than Thayer. I mean really. Picture this. John and Willa sitting around the table trying to figure out where they can find a place to open a program to torture, mame and even kill defiant teens and get away with it. Oh yeah! I almost forgot. They also need to rake in a cool $4,000.00 a month. A few kids get to go for free of course. Every good program has a scholarship program. Well anyway I don't suppose it took a whole lot of genious to figure out that a deserted part of Missouri would be the perfect place. Why the hell not Old Willa Babe. Theres no laws to protect kids from our savage program we have planned out there in that old backwards state called Missouri. And besides we'll make millions before anybody catches on to what we're doing to their kids and by then who cares we'll be rich. Well all you parents out ther who don't want to believe the kids then do me a favor and read the enrollment agreement before you send your kid there. They think that they're covering there ass every way there is to cover it. Thayer claims that they aren't responsible for what their staff may do to your child i.e. abuse or sexual or however you wish to interpret this bullshit.Just read all the fine print please and do so before you send your child because if you wait and then change your mind after the fact GOOD LUCK getting back the over $50,000. you've borrowed to pay for this place called TLC. Parent Help will of course have talked you into sending your child off right away before they run away or end up dead so normally you will get this handbook well after your child is in the program. And of course they will have frightened you into believing that teen transport is the best way to get your child there. They're also owned by the Bundys. Talk about money hand over fist. I'm sorry if I'm a little sarcastic but it's a little bit hard for me to believe that people know what's going on and still leave their kids there. Oh yeah! That's right! the Bundys say it's a wonderful program so it must be. BULL SHIT. They say that they will turn your kids around. What they'll really do is beat an terrify them into submission and if that doesn't work ,well, they'll simply kill them like they did the Reyes boy. Don't be surprised if you do decide to go rescue your kid if they have a few bruises or broken bones. From what I hear this is pretty normal but of course they left that little ditty out of their hand book. Well i've vented enoughanger for tonight. And if you happen to be from Missouri and are reading this I'm truely sorry if I offended you but I'm firm in my beliefs and Missouri has to be backwards or this crap wouldn't be going on. One more for the road. The bundys claim to be a non denominational christian program. BULL SHIT! They're Mormons. I guess that's O.K. but don't damn lie about it just because you know that would turn a lot of people away. I'm done. Good Night.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2005, 10:51:00 AM

http://www.caldwellcountymissouri.com/C ... mation.htm (http://www.caldwellcountymissouri.com/CC%20Economic%20Information.htm)
Our dedicated workforce is both loyal and productive. Most of them have been raised on farms so they have learned to work hard and long hours. Our taxes are low. Our work ethics are second to none. We care about our existing employers and help in any way we can to make their business experience here as profitable as possible!!

http://www.caldwellcountymissouri.com/C ... istory.htm (http://www.caldwellcountymissouri.com/CC%20Economic%20History.htm)
Native Missourians response to Mormons

http://www.caldwellcountymissouri.com/C ... %20See.htm (http://www.caldwellcountymissouri.com/CC%20Economic%20Things%20To%20See.htm)
Kidder Institute aka Thayer College
In 1995, after sitting vacant for many years, David McEwen from Salt Lake City, Utah purchased the building and campus. Restoration work began on some of the buildings to bring back some of the original splendor and purpose. On September 15, 2002 Mr. McEwen sold the building and 20 acres to John and Willa Bundy and history will repeat itself. The Bundy?s are going to open the school again as the ?Thayer Learning Center?. They selected the name because of the history and the acronym TLC which means ?Tender Loving Care?. The new school will house youth from ages 11-18 from all over the country. The private school will be a non-denominational Christian based school that will create over 50 jobs initially. The emphasis of the training will be ?Love of Country and of God?. The youth will be trained in personal responsibility and how to be a ?whole person in the world?. The present building will be used initially as a dormitory and school and eventually plans are to construct a new dormitory facility adjacent to the school.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2005, 11:38:00 AM

What is all that suppose to mean ?????

Not a thing !!!!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2005, 03:35:00 PM

Sinse you're so proud of your state and seem to stand behind TLC why don't whoever you are put your kid there? Yeah! I doubt that'll ever happen. And just for the record TLC stands for Trecherous Living Conditions not Tender Loving Care. At least as far as Thayer is concerned. Once again sorry for insulting your state but the truth is the truth. Missouri could but does not protect teens from whatever Thayer and other programs like them do to them. Those of us from states that actually do have laws and regulations to protect people have no clue when they send there kid to Missouri that all bets I mean laws are off. Anything goes. Even Murder. Shit, These kids would be better off in Mexico. Yes, I did say Mexico the 2nd world country which lies right below the U.S.A. Well they had all 4 programs for teens, one of them a wwasp program called Casa BY The SEA shut down by Mexican authorities for child abuse. And the wwasp program in Costa Rica, another 2nd or 3rd world country was shut down for abuse by local authorities. What the hell. These poor countries need the jobs and money that the programs generate more than anybody but not at the cost of teens being abused even if they are Americans they're not having it. Hurray for them. They have some integrity and values that money can't buy. So once again not to insult anybody but where the hell is the integrity and values in Missouri? If you live there than help do something to change these laws that don't protect children so you can be proud of your state and yourself. At this point Missouri is no better than a 3rd world country where teens are concerned. And I don't know if anybody realizes it or not but most of these programs take children as young as 11 years old. Thayer claims on the internet to be one of them. I pray that this isn't true because any 11 year old that I know of needs play therapy if they're screwed up not TLC {Trecherous Living Conditions} They've already had that or they wouldn't be screwed up at age 11. I'm not insulting any parents by saying this. I'm only saying that anything could happen to a kid in 11 years and sometimes beyond a parents control i.e. death in the family, molested by a priest or school teacher or whatever but Thayer can't help with this. I'm done.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2005, 05:40:00 PM

The same is true for Utah, Idaho, Montana, Texas and several others that are home to many of these programs.  It's awful what happened to this boy who should not have died.  This program should be shut down - I've heard terrible things about it.  Are the Bundys really Mormon?  I wonder if they are associated with WWASP or some of the other Utah based programs.....

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2005, 06:42:00 PM

They absolutely are associated with wwasp. They share an office in Utah. The Bundys used to work for wwasp before they branched off on there own. And yes they are Mormons. Absolutely they are. Call and ask them. I don't think they'd lie about that they just won't advertise it either. The Bundys share an office with the wwasp headquarters in St. George utah if I'm not mistaken. I randomly called a mormon church in St. George one time to tell them about Thayer and the lady who answered the phone had known John Bundy for years. It was somewhat of a trip to just make a phone call and get somebody who knew exactly who I was talking about. She didn't know a thing about Thayer though. Mormons are a tight community of people and to be honest with you other than that I don't know much more about them.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: cherish wisdom on February 13, 2005, 08:36:00 PM

It seems that all of these programs have so much in commom - Thayer, Provo Canyon School and the WWASP network - apparently they are connected and use similar punishments and techniques of mind control. They also deny children of appropriate medical care to prevent them from telling anyone outside of the facility about the abuse they both witness and experience.  This is often the case. Sadly this is what happened to this boy - whose life could have been spared.[ This Message was edited by: cherish wisdom on 2005-02-13 17:37 ]

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2005, 11:53:00 PM

The history of most programs can be found at struggling teens. Rather than focusing on the program, notice the players, how they move around, which program(s) they were involved with prior to opening their own, who were their mentors?

They are all more alike than different with slightly unique twists on things.

For instance, one program that desired to set itself apart from the bad boys out west, still hired a CEDU man as headmaster. The program has many elements and methods of CEDU, but not all.
One program owner worked at two very abusive programs where deaths had ocurred before opening his own program. Ironically, his program was closed due to a death.

They're all sordid branches of the same tree with a common root. This becomes clearer as one compares the lingo and methods used. Like one big happy incestuous family.

Apparently Willa concocted her own method, posted in another thread, but also uses the militaristic approach which is as old as the hills. They're a breed unto themselves and most 'respectable' programs desperately attempt to distinquish themselves from the low-life boot camps.  

Still, when the day is done... they are all more alike than different. Some more savvy about keeping the abuse overt and/or soft on the physical abuse but heavy on the mind f'in.

They've all figured out how to drive a wedge between parent and child, while preaching 'family healing' and 'reunion'. And keeping that wedge there for them maximum lenght of time- some even suggesting boarding environments post 'graduation'- to decrease attrition and maximize profits. Would prefer to keep mommy and daddy's illusion of change in tact. You have to give it to them, its quiet an awesome business plan.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on February 14, 2005, 10:25:00 AM

what you said about visitation is absolutely true.  I showed up unannounced to pull my son from the program and, low and behold, all the doors were locked (of course, it wasnt this way the day we dropped off our son and $50,000).  When they saw me on their security cameras, someone came out to talk to me.  When they finally agreed to give me my son, I started to follow the employee into the building and they wouldn't let me go in.  They made us wait outside.

But, I would like to say, Texas should not be on the list above.  I live in Texas and the laws and regulations are different here than in MO.  Unfortunately, because of the backwards laws in MO, the investigating agencies hands are tied.  Since they are not licensed or regulated by the state, the state cannot just show up whenever they please, unless they have a search warrant, which also is nearly impossible to get.  THis is why the Bundy's chose this state.  I am sure they researched all of this thoroughly before they bought the place.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 14, 2005, 10:32:00 AM

Some more savvy about keeping the abuse overt and/or soft on the physical abuse but heavy on the mind f'in.

Sure you figure out that that should read, "covert", certainly not overt.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on February 16, 2005, 11:42:00 AM

Well, I understand 2 more were rescued from Thayer!  Two down, many, many more to go!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 16, 2005, 01:30:00 PM

please tell us were these 2 the 2 that were rescued last week or are there yet another 2 more recently? At this rate the place may close down due to lack of enrollment. The only problem is I wonder how many people are placing new kids there for the ones that get taken out. Hopefully not very many.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on February 16, 2005, 02:39:00 PM

I'm not sure if they were the same 2 you are referring to or now. I was just told last night that two more were pulled out by parents.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 16, 2005, 09:45:00 PM

My Cousin was pulled out last week - I am assuming he is accounted for in the two, but at least he is not there anymore - I just worry about all the kids who still are

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 17, 2005, 02:12:00 PM

Does anyone have any names of students still enrolled at Thayer?

Tim Rocha

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on February 17, 2005, 02:15:00 PM

Tim, you need to register so we can either email or private mail you.  Other than the name I gave your wife, I don't have any, and all I had was a last name.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 17, 2005, 07:54:00 PM

These programs don't like to disclose who is in the program to prevent cross communication from patients and parents.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on February 18, 2005, 09:44:00 AM

of course they dont, because they dont want people to find out the TRUTH!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on February 18, 2005, 12:13:00 PM

That worked on a fair number of people who were in Straight decades ago. I can think of at least 3 or 4 who's initial response to the forum was along the lines of "Oh my god! I never knew anybody else felt this way!" Since Straight programs operated locally in a community, that means that these folks had somewhat intentionally avoided contact w/ each other after graduation in order to not get discovered and reported for "not working their program."

May the fleas of one thousand llamas infest your armpits
--One ticked off sysadmin

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 19, 2005, 12:26:00 PM

I have a family member there but he is probably dead in some corner by now. As little as anyone knows about the inner workings of this place it is feasible he is at best maimed, undoubedly in great pain, enduring hearbreaking sorrow and sadness, unimaginable physical and emotional abuse and the only voice he hears in his head all day, every day is that he is nothing and no one loves him.... I love him but NO I can't go get him, I don't have custody and his parents don't care.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2005, 12:55:00 PM

Is Thayer now a forgotten subject and along with it, the death of the boy.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2005, 12:57:00 PM

Has your family members seen this website?

Have they seen ISACCORP.ORG ?

It is your job to keep fighting for this child until he is removed.  You print every page that you can and keep showing it to your family members until they go and get him.

Was he abused by his family before going into Thayer?

No child should ever be hurt in the process of trying to be helped.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 21, 2005, 02:07:00 AM

Thayer is absolutely not a forgotten subject. They will be shut down it just takes time to do these things. The Reyes lawsuit is finally off the ground and things should start rolling at a much faster pace at this point. Be patient and watch what happens next. I promise you it will be better than the movies. ::mecry:: This is what the Bundys will be doing when all that money goes bye bye.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on February 21, 2005, 10:05:00 AM

private message or email me and I can help you get him out.  There are ways to do it, and I know the right people to help.  Just this month alone 4-5 kids have been rescued (my son being one of them!)

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: cherish wisdom on February 21, 2005, 11:24:00 AM

You need to give the family as much information as you can. These facilities have parents sign documents indicating that they will pay for a month or more tuition if they remove their child. They also tell them that they will be removing them against medical advice and that their child could commit suicide if they do.  I had a child in a program.  I did remove her and exposed the horror she experienced. I did not get charged for an additional month because they had abused her. They did not allow her to have the therapy or education that we had agreed upon. They did not allow her to go to school or church.
The testimonials from web-sites helped me to believe that what she was saying was true -even though it was difficult to believe that they would put her in an ice cold concrete room for 8 hours a day.  They just don't tell the parents what they are doing to "help" their children.

If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 21, 2005, 12:13:00 PM

The parents know, I have sent them this site, ISAC, etc. When I would tell them of a new development, like the murder of Robert Reyes, they call Thayer who would tell them my boy is still in dire need of their help. The parents have cut off all communication with me, as I have become the enemy. Suggesting that they would never send their child to a place he would be harmed????? It is as though the parents are brainwashed.

My boys crime for being sent to TLC? A teenager who is ADHD, who was a good student, then developed an "attitude". Certainly warrants a death sentence in TLC's mind, and with parental ignorance and permission he is undoubtedly in great harm and I am dying along with him. At this point, I am not sure either of us can be saved. His soul and his spirit are irreparably damaged and my spirit died the day they stole him from me. My love and prayers alone can't save him.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 21, 2005, 12:24:00 PM

Get help for major depression.  Call a psychiatrist's office for an appointment *now*.

You can't help your friend if you're dead.

Your friend will almost certainly survive Thayer and doesn't need your death on top of the other new problems he will come out of there with.

He also doesn't need you melodramatically co-opting *his* crisis.

Get your own head in order so when he turns 18 and is there for you to help, you can actually help him instead of being a drag on him or yet another *loss* for him.

Timoclea

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on February 21, 2005, 02:50:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-02-21 08:24:00, cherish wisdom wrote:

"You need to give the family as much information as you can. These facilities have parents sign documents indicating that they will pay for a month or more tuition if they remove their child. They also tell them that they will be removing them against medical advice and that their child could commit suicide if they do.  I had a child in a program.  I did remove her and exposed the horror she experienced. I did not get charged for an additional month because they had abused her. They did not allow her to have the therapy or education that we had agreed upon. They did not allow her to go to school or church.

The testimonials from web-sites helped me to believe that what she was saying was true -even though it was difficult to believe that they would put her in an ice cold concrete room for 8 hours a day.  They just don't tell the parents what they are doing to "help" their children.

If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist

"

As I stated before.....contact me via private message or email and I can tell you the steps to take to get him out, without going through the parents.  However, if you do get him out, he will be returned to his parents though.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: cherish wisdom on February 21, 2005, 03:12:00 PM

Most of the parents who keep their children in these programs ARE Brainwashed. The counselors who speak to the parents are very good at sucking them in. I was also a little brainwashed - fortunately my husband was not - and he started showing me all of the testimonials, Ryan Freidenberg's website and all the others. Finally after seeing that these victims were all reporting the same kinds of abuse my own daughter told us about, I realized that I had been dupted by a pathological freak of a counselor. Someone who should have his license to practice revoked. Someone who ordered strict isolation and seclusion for a child with the diagnosis of severe depression.  
These parents probably have been conditioned. Most parents really want to believe they are doing the best thing for their child. These unscrupulous professionals involved in this industry are very good at convinsing them that they are wonderful parents for getting their son or daughter the help they need.  This is just what they want to hear. Most parents with problem kids are ashamed of themselves and really view themselves as failures (because they are) as parents. When they get lots of positive strokes from so called DOCTORS this really gives them something they've been craving.  They really want to believe it.  That's why they hold on to the program. They really beleive that they are now good parents for getting appropriate care for their child. It's very difficult to break this illusion. Someone needs to hit them on the head and wake them up.  I've tried to talk to program parents and it's very difficult. Even one whose own daughter(a girl suffering from rape trauma syndrome) had her nose broken believed that the program was wonderful and helpful and that somehow her child deserved to be taken down and that the broken nose was a result of he child's rebellion against the rules.  She was an intelligent woman - yet she truly believed this.....I could go on and on.  I'm sure the facility is doing damage control over the death of this boy and I'm sure they have something very logical to tell enquiring parents. Just keep it up.... You may get through to them.... Also - you need to realize that there are SOME kids who report being helped at Thayer and other reportedly abusive programs.  I'm sure that all of the children are not abused by staff - some may be treated well and some may respond to Thayer's treatment.   This is why most  of the abusive programs are still in exhistance.

Patient memoirs are a kind of protest literature like slave narratives or witness testimonies.
G.A.Hornstein

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on February 21, 2005, 03:34:00 PM

You are correct in that "some" are not necessarily abused at Thayer.  My son, unfortunately, was one of them.  But he did tell me that they don't treat everyone like that.  At the time he was there, it was only him and one other student (who got it worse than my son) that were being abused like that.  I think their size had a lot to do with it.  My son is very small and this other kid was overweight.  My son said that the other "cadets" were pretty average.   Who knows why they choose to go after certain ones, but they do.  

The day I picked my son up, I saw the overweight kid he was talking about.  They had him out in the yard "smoking" him when I got there to pick up my son.  Of course, my visit was unannounced.  When the drill instructors saw us standing there watching them, they rounded the kid up and took him inside.  The reason he was being smoked?  His only crime was "stealing a muffin".  And that is because all they got for breakfast was wheat seeds and water!  Sorry, but when you work a kid for 18 hours a day and only feed them crap like that, they are GOING TO BE HUNGRY.  So what is the pnishment for trying to give your body nourishment? More exercising!  Its ridiculous.  What if this kid had never been prone to stealing before?  If he wasn't before, he sure is now becaue of survival instincts!  

My son prays every night that the poor kid makes it out of there!  He asks me several times a week, Mom have you found his parents yet, have you helped get him out?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 21, 2005, 06:21:00 PM

My daughter told me about a girl at Thayer who wants to stay until she's 18. The girl told my daughter that at home it was worse. Can you imagine home being worse than Thayer? The girl is only 14 years old and her dad married a woman a couple of years ago and the woman he married has been abusing this girl the whole time. My daughter says she's a really tiny girl. Her step mom used to lock her in the closet for up to three days at a time when her dad was out of town. He had no idea about the abuse.I guess her stepmom wouldn't feed her while she was in the closet. Her father had no idea she was being abused by the stepmom. It was of course the stepmothers idea to send her there. My daughter askes her what she did to get sent there and she told her nothing. My daughter laughed and said "Yeah right. We all say that. Now really what did you do?" The girl told her that she wasn't lying, that she really hadn't done anything. My daughter told me that every Sunday when the kids write letters home to their families the girl would just sit and cry the whole time the others took to write their letters. The sergeants would tell her that eventually she would have to write a letter. She told them that she had nothing to write. She told my daughter that she wanted to tell her dad about what the stepmom had been doing to her but she was scared he wouldn't believe her. I guess the abuse was more than just the closet. She used to get beat as well. My daughter told her that she could come live with us when they both got out. I feel so sorry for this girl but I also believe that lots of kids get thrown away so to speak because of step parents I mean jealous step parents. I don't mean to say that all step parents are jealous but believe me plenty are and given enough money would do this to their step kids. It seems that men are more jealous of stepsons and women are more jealous of stepdaughters. I just really find it sad that a kid would rather live at Thayer than at home because of the living conditions at home. And I don't believe for a minute that the father of this child didn't know what was going on in his own house. Maybe not the extent of it but come on as human beings unless we have some sort of deficit we can feel when things just aren't right.Some people live in such a state of denial that I suppose it is possible to convince themselves that things are just peachy when in reality terrible things are going on right in front of them. I've never lived in such a state of denial but I've sure seen alot of others and it's frightening to think that children are at the mercy of these types of parents. I've heard of girls being molested for years by fathers, stepfathers, brothers, etc... and the mom never had a clue.Yeah right. That's called LIVING IN DENIAL. Leaving your kids at TLC because TLC or a stepparent or a teacher or whoever says you should is living in denial. You hear all the things that happen there,a kid was killed, no not bitten by a spider the poor thing, but killed by incompitant staff who beat him, exercised him beyond his ability and then threw him in a room the size of a broom closet for a few days before he finally gave up and died. This is crap. Get real everybody. Get your heads out of your asses and quit living in denial. Your kids aren't safe at Thayer I don't care how many times Thayer says they are. The proof is everywhere so believe it. Yeah! I'll admit most kids will lie and manipulate to get what they want. They'll lie and say that they are going to the movies and really go to a party or say that they're staying the night at a friends house and really stay out with a  boyfriend. This is how Thayer gets people to believe them and not the kids. All of our kids have lied to us at least once so Thayer uses this to manipulate us into believing that they are lying and manipulating us about Thayer. Do you see how sophisticated Thayer employees are? They are trained to prey on our weaknesses and convince us that our kids are liars and manipulators when in reality Thayer wins the prize. They've managed to lie to us and manipulate us far more than our kids are capable of doing and if we leave our kids there for about a year they should be able to pick up a few new tricks from the staff and be masters of lying and manipulating for life. I regret to inform you that if you leave your child at Thayer you may get back more than what you bargained for. And please anybody out there who has ever gotten a legitimate parent or child reference please let the rest of us know. Thayer claims it's confidential information and they don't give that information. Well lots of other programs do with the consent of the parents you can call their house and talk to parent and child. Another lie. They list all sorts of referrals on their site but no names or phone numbers. Another manipulation. Roberto Reyes died from a spider bite and they did everything they could to save him. Another f...ing lie. If you do chose to leave your kids at Thayer for the full sentence and you get your child back all nice and well behaved just remember that your child learned to lie and manipulate from the best of them just to survive so don't count on your child being genuinely well behaved and respectful. It's just yet another LIE.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 21, 2005, 06:27:00 PM

I forgot. Please say a prayer for the poor little girl who would rather live at Thayer until she's 18. Her whole life must be a living hell and she has nothing to look forward to. Where the heck is her biological mother? Off on drugs according to my daughter. If her life is worse at home than at Thayer what's going to happen to her when they get shut down? I wish she could come live with us. My daughter wasn't lying. I'd take her in in a minute.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: cherish wisdom on February 21, 2005, 10:32:00 PM

If you and your son witnessed this child's abuse then you have an obligation to report it to Child Protective Services. I'd suggest that you call CPS and tell them about this boy's abusive treatment. Since this death CPS may take it seriously and send in a social worker to investigate and question this child. If you have the child's name this would be helpful. I'd also suggest that you report it to the local police.  Using excessive exercise for punishment and inadequate nutrition is usually a violation for residential facilities.  Please follow up on this.

To the annoymous poster whose daughter was told about the abuse of the girl at Thayer - again - if you know the girl's name and her home-town you can and should report this abuse to CPS in her area.  At least the father of the girl would be aware of the allegations.  He may not be aware of what's been happening.  Most CPS agencies take reports of child abuse seriously.

If life were fair, Dan Quayle would be making a living asking 'Do you want fries with that?'
John Cleese

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2005, 04:12:00 AM

Unfortunately reporting abuse at Thayer to Missouri's CPS is completely ineffectual.  These reports are referred to the local police for investigation.  When I contacted the local police I received a sales pitch for Thayer and was assured the children were "happy and well cared for" and, of course, "the children's safety and well-being are my first priority".  The Office of Child Welfare, which was established by Missouri's newly replaced governor is staffed by people who are genuinely concerned and aware of the abuses that take place at Thayer and a number of other facilities in Missouri.  Unfortunately, their hands are tied by the law or the lack of law, as it were, in Missouri.  In fact it was this office that told me the very agency that is tasked with investigating child abuse is reluctant, even afraid, to go into these facilities because they have been on the losing end of retaliatory lawsuits.  
You may think I'm saying it's hopeless, give up, do nothing.  You'd be wrong.  What I am getting to is there is no safety net for the child victims of an insidious industry in Missouri EXCEPT you and I.  Make your reports, note dates, time and names.  Follow up.  Contact any and all news agencies you can.  I have a Google news alert set up for anything on Thayer.  Sadly, the last bit of media the place got was a report from the local TV station saying the conclusion of the state investigation of the Reyes boy's death had been postponed by weather.  It sounds like stonewalling to me.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2005, 07:48:00 AM

Would you be willing to explain how to set up a Google 'news alert'? Thanks

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2005, 07:55:00 AM

Quote

On 2005-02-22 04:48:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

Would you be willing to explain how to set up a Google 'news alert'? Thanks"

Go here: http://www.google.com/alerts (http://www.google.com/alerts)

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on February 22, 2005, 10:42:00 AM

Yes, the local authorities are not the people to talk to.  The "out of home investigations unit" of the Department of Social Services are the ones, but, as stated above, what they can do is limited since the institution is private.  This is based off the wonderful laws of Missouri. I am sure the Bundys were well aware of this fact before they chose their location.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2005, 02:46:00 PM

Please do report any abuse you know of but not to Caldwell County Protective Services. Report it to the state agency who are not affraid of the Bundys. The number is, 573-751-3448.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on February 22, 2005, 04:00:00 PM

Just for the record, I have seen a copy of the Reyes lawsuit, and it doesn't say they are asking for "$25,000" it says that the damages EXCEEDS $25,000, which is the jurisdictional limits of the court.  this is standard, required language in a lawsuit, you have to state whether the damages sought are above or below the jurisdictional limits.

This just goes to show you that you cant believe EVERYTHING you read because I know several articles recited that the Reyes' family was only seeking $25k in damages, which is not the case.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2005, 04:34:00 PM

have you spoken to a Rick Hill he is in charge of the out of homes invesitgation unit. If you know the high ups you dont need to mess with all the buacracy and the red tape. E-mail me privatly and lets talk i will help if i can. It took me several years of fighing the child abuse industry in MO. Thanks to that work i have built up several contacts that could help.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on February 22, 2005, 05:15:00 PM

Yep, spoke to him before.  That is what gave me the final decision to pull my son out.  He is a supervisor with the out of home investigations department of the DSS.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: cherish wisdom on February 23, 2005, 12:05:00 AM

I'd suggest you write a letter and send it out to CPS or e-mail the supervisor of CPS in that area and send her a note. Also notify Isac.corp. I know they were able to help me and as soon as they went to bat the authorities took notice. You see - the state and the departments can also be sued if they do nothing.  They have an obligation.  Once they know that you have told others they usually will do something. With PCS several agencies conducted investigations - and there were a few violations that they found.  CPS did send in an investigator.  I wrote a letter detailing the abuse my child both experienced and witnessed.  This was sent to all of the licensing boards, CPS and the Deparment of Health and Human Services also the Attorney General.  They didn't do much but they did rattle their cage a little.  The more people who report this the better it will be for everyone.  They may be able to ignor one person - but it's more difficult to ignor two, three, four, five.  I'd also suggest that you file a civil suit for untherapeutic treatment - particularly if your child had a diagnosed mental illness.  There are Federal Rules and Regulation under US Code Title 42 - I beleive it is either section 112 or section 114.  Make waves and don't let them push you away.  Keep pushing back until something is done.  

I cannot see how a man of any large degree of humorous perception can ever be religious -- unless he purposely shut the eyes of his mind and keep them shut by force.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2005, 05:38:00 PM

http://www.isaccorp.org/thayer.html (http://www.isaccorp.org/thayer.html)

Isac has posted a copy of the entire wrongful death suit againt TLC by Roberto Reyes' family, on their web site.

Yet the Bundy's in their arrogance, continue to abuse children in their care. At this point, they must believe they are invincible.  :flame:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Zero Tolerance on February 23, 2005, 05:44:00 PM

Anyone wanting to get their child out please contact us.  My husband is a former employee and saw the abuse first hand.
Email ASAP

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2005, 05:55:00 PM

it would make it much easier if you provided an email addy in your profile or here for those individuals to contact you.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on February 23, 2005, 07:05:00 PM

One caveate to this. Set up a disposable email account through any number of neutral parties like Hotmail or Yahoo. Yes, they'll sell your info to marketers, but they have no interest in your personal issues. If you post your permanent email address here, you'll get spam and you may be giving away your ID to people who you'd rather not connect those dots.

Or you can use the private message feature here. It's fairly private.

Neither in my private life nor in my writings, have I ever made a secret of being an out-and-out unbeliever.
--Sigmund Freud, Austrian-born psychologist

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Mrs. Doubtfire on February 24, 2005, 08:05:00 PM

Is Thayer old news now?
Are the Bundy's running yet?
Have anymore children been saved in the last few days?
Please say... No! Yes! Yes!

Nilh... you still helping, hoping and listening. Sure hope so.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 24, 2005, 08:37:00 PM

The last child I heard of that got out was on Feb 12.  Anyone else after that?

Please contact Tim Rocha
816-671-9662

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 24, 2005, 10:41:00 PM

I'm still here.

Just busy with school and my personal or 'real' life lately :razz:

Ah, the joys of polynomials.

God is inconceivable, immortality is unbelievable, but duty is peremptory and absolute.
--George Eliot, author

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 24, 2005, 10:51:00 PM

Hi this is Julia. Cadet Ramirez according to Thayer. I just want to make sure that nobody forgets the hell that the kids at Thayer go through. We would get waken up at all hours of the night and forced to exersiced sometimes in what they call the the "mud pit" then we would just go back to bed. I am also allergic to dairy and i was made to eat and drink it. They told me it was to much trouble to make special food. They also lied to my mom and told her i wasn't eating dairy. After i would eat dairy it gave me bathroom problems. I guess you would say the other cadets and I had to suffer for that one if you know what i mean. :lol: We were forced to hold it in when we had to use the bathroom. And when we did it was sometimes 30 seconds for #1 and 60 seconds for #2. You can only begin to imagine what it was like for me after eating dairy and having to exercise. Enough said. We were always hungry and they determined how much food we got and we only got seconds on bowls. We usually always left the chow haul hungry exept on holidays. This one girl got taken down by Sgt. Caro and she was screaming and saying she couldn't breathe and she was turning purple. We were not suppose to look but i am a nosey little girl so i looked anyway. Also the same girl was forced to brush her teeth for 4 hours for saying fuck. Her gums were bleeding and the enamel was coming of her teeth. Hey fuck fuck fuck. ha can't do anything about that Willa. Alot of the girls would get infections and we would tell Ms. Dorothy and she would say Wash better. One girl did get taken because she had these boil looking thing. I swear the were bigger than a golf ball. It was sick. One time i scrathed my head and Ms. Fiona told me so you like to do  your own thing you need to ask permission to do anything. Well i forgot that she had told me that and i scratched my foot i had to run 50 laps around the gym and i also have to do 100 8counts. For scratching my freaken foot!!!!! Hey my foot itches. When i first arrived there was a girl who always peed her pants she one day peed in her bucket/clothes bin and had to sit in it for awile. Then another cadet and i had to carry her in her bin to the bathroom to take a shower. We were sometimes left alone with male SGTS. and our parents were told that we would never be left alone with males. My Family rep kristy was suppose to spend 30 to an hour with me but i was lucky if i saw her for 5 minutes. Around christmas time i had been talking to her about my Grandpa who had killed himself a couple years ago and i was depressed about it and she told me suck up my drama and go sit down with my group. I was bawling my head off and she just walked away. This one girl had an asthma attack and was told to go lie down and around 1 to 2 hours later a Sgt. came in and said to take her the the hostpital She looked conserned. In the Parent Book it says we journal Well the only things the only thing we got to write is notes on videos and letters once a week. I was shocked when she asked me about my journal i asked her what the heck are you talking about we don't journal. I wonder why They don't want documented proff of what is going on. THOSE SNEAKY ASSWIPES! Trying to cover it all up ey Bundy? I still hav enightmares about the place. The other night i woke up crying. That place really did a number on me. We would wake up with spiders on us. It was actually very commen. We saw mice and moles alot. In the girls dorm but oddly never outside. Thayer would want anyone who reads this to belive that i am a liar and a manipulator for not compleating the program , why would i lie at this point i am OUT i just think you have the right to know what goes on there, and what some of yout family is experiencing. I wrote something awhile back and if this sounds different from before it is because i have remembered Some things since then. Anyone who would like to E-mail  me or call me feel absolutely free. My e-mail is [email protected] and my phone # is 707 527 7628. you can call me collect if neccesary or give me your # and i'll call you. I swear on my papas Grave that everything i am saying is true. Thanks for reading this. -Julia-
I will update as i remember more things.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Deborah on February 25, 2005, 12:05:00 AM

Nihl,
Here's a site that might be useful.
http://www.webmath.com/index.html (http://www.webmath.com/index.html)

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 25, 2005, 01:10:00 PM

This is Julia again. I just wanted to tell you the dates that I was at Thayer, 9-27-04 to 1-16-05.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 25, 2005, 11:48:00 PM

Timoclea...

I'm not depressed! I'm pissed! and gravely Sad! I feel helpless because I know I am alive and I am not sure he is? I have never and do not now feel compelled to "end it all" as you infered.

 Perception vs Reality.

But next time I need a diagnosis of my emotional state, I'll let you know! I just wanted to shout in the darkness how sad I was and do it in a place where I felt people listened and cared. The cry was rhetorical.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 26, 2005, 06:19:00 PM

What the heck is going on. I know for a fact that kids have been removed from Thayer lately and nobody is talking about it. Doesn't anybody care about the kids that are still there? It's each man for themself or what? Come on everybody who has been rescued start talking. If you're affraid of the Bundys well screw them and that gun of Ms. Willas. Get real. There's nothing they can do to hurt you if you're out but believe me the ones left behind they can and will hurt. It's time to talk everybody.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on February 26, 2005, 08:25:00 PM

I was just informed that another student was removed in the last couple of days.

Anyone needing information or wanting to talk and share your story please call.

Tim Rocha
816-671-9662

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on February 26, 2005, 11:52:00 PM

Hey folks,
  Just wanted to let you know that I've started a new forum just for Thayer. I've moved a bunch of old Thayer threads over there, but I'm leaving this and a few others so that people won't get lost on the way. You can still use this one, but I'll likely move it too in a few days.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=39&233 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=39&233)

The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
--John Adams, U.S. President

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Mrs. Doubtfire on February 27, 2005, 12:03:00 AM

Tim -
PLEASE GO TO THE LEFT SIDE OF THIS PAGE, GO THE THE TOP - CLICK ON "REGISTER" AND REGISTER A NAME!!! No one can privately email you if you just keep posting under anonymous, and you know yourself how frightened these kids are, as well as their families.

You can prove who you are from Steve Rock's newspaper article written about you in the Kansas City Star...and those of us who know you from this board.

98% of these board postings are anonymous.  What you are trying to do is way too important to not have a way for those you are trying to help, to be able to reach you. And Thanks!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2005, 11:09:00 PM

Hello! Is anybody alive? It's been days and no postings. Thayer is still up and opperating so what the heck are we gonna do about it?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on March 02, 2005, 11:01:00 AM

I was just thinking the same thing. I has been awful quiet..

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on March 02, 2005, 11:27:00 AM

Quote

On 2005-03-01 20:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Hello! Is anybody alive? It's been days and no postings. Thayer is still up and opperating so what the heck are we gonna do about it?"

Honestly, based on what I've read lately about stonewalling by local and state authorities, I think the best route is the Vth Estate. Web forums like this one are way out on the fringe of that; just very limited readership. This is a good place to meet and greet others who have firsthand experience w/ Thayer and also to find out about other programs run under other names and how similar they are in various ways. Then take it to the media in DROVES!

Keep an eye out (set search engine agents to look for) media on Thayer or other "troubled teen" programs and then write to the journalists and tell them your side of the story. Keep copies of those printed articles and sent letters so that an interested reader can get a pretty good picture of how well (or not) the media is covering the story. I don't know that Thayer is known very well to cult interest groups. Tell them what's going on. They get ink more and more often. I think I've seen Steve Hassan and Rick Ross on at least a half dozen news or documentary type shows in the past few months. The story's finally getting some legs that the media and audience can understand. Roll w/ that!

Oh, and a reminder... I'm going to move this thread over to the Thayer forum today. I'll set it up so that old links to this thread are redirected to the new location. Please don't hesitate to ask if anything doesn't work as you expect or if you find anything confusing. If you have trouble, odds are that others are having the same trouble. And if you don't tell me, then I can't fix/explain it.

War is God?s way of teaching Americans geography.

--Ambrose Bierce (died 1914)

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on March 02, 2005, 04:03:00 PM

who are steve hassan and rick ross?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Cayo Hueso on March 02, 2005, 04:15:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-03-02 13:03:00, tlcrescue wrote:

"who are steve hassan and rick ross?"

http://www.rickross.com/ (http://www.rickross.com/)

http://www.freedomofmind.com/ (http://www.freedomofmind.com/)

Power concedes nothing without a demand. The limit of oppression is determined by the extent of the endurance of the oppressed.
--Frederick Douglas

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: ExSgtRocha on March 05, 2005, 01:02:00 PM

I hope this is the thread everyone is looking for.

Anyone with new information or if you have currently left Thayer please contact us.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on March 05, 2005, 08:13:00 PM

If you can remember a distinctive word or phrase, use the search WWF link to the left to find the specific post you're looking for. If you have any trouble at all, let me know, I'll help you.

It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him.
--Arthur C. Clarke, author

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on March 07, 2005, 09:59:00 PM

As soon as Thayer got it's own topic, every one went into hiding. Is Thayer passe' now?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: ExSgtRocha on March 07, 2005, 11:10:00 PM

We are needing new students names.  
Recently released students, and students who have not been in contact before.  
Please contact us.

private mail us

Thanks Tim

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on March 08, 2005, 09:49:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-03-07 18:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"As soon as Thayer got it's own topic, every one went into hiding. Is Thayer passe' now?"

I think people are scared. But there's really no need to be. I split Thayer off into it's own forum to make it easier for a reader to find all the related material. Nobody has to pick through the entire Troubled Teen forum to find the Thayer related stuff. It also gets a higher ranking in the search engines because it has it's own heading.

But the people ya'll might be afraid of would probably be determined enough to find it anyway. It's the people who don't know and who want to learn something about Thayer who get the benefit.

As always, I don't think you're being silly. If you're uncomfortable posting much information then don't do it right now, or ever. You can always set up a disposable email address if you want to communicate privately w/ someone and just post that address or send it to the person/people you want to communicate with. Do be cautious. Do check ID. That's not paranoid, that's just good sense.

Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on March 10, 2005, 12:26:00 AM

There are still kids being abused at thayer. We all need to help stop this from going on. My daughter Julia is still having nightmares about the place. She was only there for four months and she's all messed up from it. What about kids that get left there for 1 year or longer? It's not just the abuse they have to endure but watching other kids get abused is almost as awful my daughter told me. They pick on minority kids according to Julia. Blacks and mexicans get it the worst according to Julia. She has seen girls get taken down so hard that they turned purple because their arm was pulled so far up behind their back. She's seen kids brush their teeth until their lips and gums bleed and the enamel came off of one girls teeth. One girl had boils bigger than golf balls in her private areas and they finally took her to the doctor. The other girls a lot of them had bladder and other infections from not being allowed to use the bathroom often enough. They would be told to suck up their drama. Two days before Roberto Reyes died a girl had an asthma attack and a sergeant told her to go lay down. Quite awhile, hours later another sergeant came in and paniced when she saw the child trying to breathe. They did take her to the doctor but what if they hadn't? It seems to me that the people they hire aren't intelligent enough to figure out a critical medical situation how could anybody who knows this leave their child in their care? They let a boy die for gosh sakes. In my opinion we're probably for the most part dealing with IQs lower than 70 and the common sense of pigs. I am talking about the staff by the way. The kids are I'm sure smarter than the staff. That's really scarry. Can you imagine being one of those kids and knowing that something is terribly wrong with the boy who was dying and not being allowed to say hey I think he needs help or you may get taken down, smoked for hours or locked in isolation.What a situation to be in. Well let me tell you the kids are put in these situations daily. My daughter was scared to death when they put the girl off to the side to have her asthma attack. She told me that another girl and her almost started crying because they were so scared but they knew the consequences for crying so they were quiet. Can you imagine the guilt they would have felt if the girl had died? Asthma is VERY VERY SERIOUS in case you don't know very much about it. An attack gone untreated can likely be fatal. People die from asthma all the time. I have a daughter who almost died from asthma when she was 10 months old and she was taken by ambulance to the hospital immediately after the attack started. She was in the hospital for almost a week. My point is that we're dealing with a very serious illness hear and they told the girl to go lay down. This shows the intelligence level of the staff. For God sakes you see somebody fighting for breath and you tell them to go lay down? Lets pretend that they didn't break a kids foot a couple of weeks ago and a boy didn't die and they don't wake kids up in the middle of the night and make them exercise in mud for hours and then go back to bed all filthy, mice moles and spiders don't crawl all over the kids while they try to sleep, girls aren't forced to brush their teeth until the enamel comes off, boys aren't forced to drag a dying boy to the latrine to hose him down, kids aren't punched in the face by sergeants, kids aren't locked up in isolation rooms for days and even weeks at a time listening to some crazy inspirational tapes, Don't forget we're pretending that this crap never happened because we all know that it does but even if it didn't why would a person want their child at the mercy of complete morons? I didn't say mormons I said morons. My biggest fear after I found out about Roberto Reyes dying was that something terrible would happen to Julia and that those idiots wouldn't have enough common sense to get her medical attention and she might die. I live in California and there were ice storms in Missouri when I found out that the boy had been killed. I was horrified. I called them every day telling them they'd better not let anything happen to my daughter. The part that scared me the most was when they told me that they called his family at 10a.m. and at 4:30 he died at Thayer. This disturbed me to say the least. I screamed at the lady "You had six frickin hours to save him and you didn't even call an ambulance when he wasn't breathing well at 10 a.m." This was the point I knew we were not dealing with people with very much going on upstairs. Lack of common sense coupled with people that just don't care and and you have dangerous situations on your hands. Please if you have a child in this place GET THEM OUT AND QUICKLY. I'm not over reacting. Please if you don't believe me call and talk to my daughter who will tell you the truth. She doesn't have to lie because I found out about thayer before she told me anything and I know the whole dirty truth. The kids aren't lying or manipulating you so they can come home. Thayer staff are lying and manipulating you by saying this about your kids so you won't believe them and you'll leave them to be abused and they can collect their precious money. I truely believe that it's only about the money. Sorry but we were all fooled. The website makes the program look so wonderful and parent help makes them sound so good. Parent help is owned by them. So are many of the other agencies you had to deal with before you put your child there but I won't get into that for now. As hard as Thayer tries to keep parents away from the facility I went there and it's a dingy shit hole of a place. They'll have you meet them in the hamilton office for a family visit and have teen transport come pick up your child by but anything to keep you from seeing the reality of your childs life at Thayer. Nope. That's their dirty little secret. Well I demanded a tour and That place is gross. I saw the little closet that the boy died in. Yep it was a closet. No bed. No bed could possibly have fit in such a small space. Don't let them lie to you. I'm a nosey sucker and I found out a lot at my visit. Caro told me that they had a nurse on staff. He's a liar. NO nurse. Just believe me that they'll tell you anything to make you leave your kid there. Yes even lie. Please call me if you have any questions for me or my daughter. We're not affraid to expose the truth. And any child who gets out please contact Cadet Ramirez {Julia} She's very worried about the kids she left behind especially Cadet Hayes from Oakland California. Julia has done everything she can do to help you but Oakland is huge and she can't find your mom. If you're reading this Hayes please call Ramirez. 707-527-7628 or e-mail her at [email protected] anybody else please feel free to call or e-mail as well. We will do anything we can to help in any way that we can. Pia

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on March 10, 2005, 07:06:00 AM

is hyes a boy or girl?if so i think i know him

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on March 10, 2005, 10:33:00 AM

I would like to follow up on the comment above where Thayer says when our kids tell us these things going on inside, it is just a minuplation.   Well, what I could like to know is how can it be a manipulation when several kids I have spoken with give the same EXACT accounts of what happens in there as my son did, and they have never met my son!  If my son says something happened in there, and another student gives me an identical account of those types of events, yet they were not even in Thayer at the same time, how is that lying and a manipulation?   Explain THAT one Thayer!

Oh, and the claims that the Reyes boy that died was "dragged" through the showers, I believe it because my son experienced the EXACT same thing.  He was hogtied to another cadet and was "dragged" through the showers.  And, he said that the tile on the bathroom floor is broken in many places, so that accounts for the cuts on his arms, chest and legs.  And, I am sure that is exactly how Reyes got his cuts as well!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: ExSgtRocha on March 11, 2005, 06:56:00 PM

Are there any new leads on Thayer?
I am looking for recently released students or former employees.
Contact Tim Rocha 816-671-9662

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Mrs. Doubtfire on March 12, 2005, 11:13:00 PM

Tim - If the kids are hesitant to contact you maybe they can go through Julia who can assure them you are our Knight in Shining Armour.

If still hesitant, they could contact Steve Rock at the Kansas City Star; or ISAC.

I wish more parents would be responsive to helping those left behind.  I'm stunned at the sudden silence of our site as soon as it became dedicated.

Antigen set it up so those trying to learn about this dungeon would locate this board if they entered Thayer into Google or other search engines.  WE need to keep it current, active and alive.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on March 14, 2005, 09:46:00 AM

well, this forum came up on the google search this morning, but, unfortunately, right behind is was a search result that links you to the parenthelp website.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on March 15, 2005, 12:36:00 AM

Hayes is a girl. Julia

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on March 15, 2005, 12:43:00 AM

This is Julia again. Would anybody who knew me at thayer please e-mail me at [email protected] please don't be affraid. We all were in it together and it's time to help the ones left behind. please call me or e-mail me. i'm cadet ramirez, julia. i've only been out for 2 months so i know some of you must remember me. if you're a boy you probably don't but you can e-mail me also because we need to all stick together. e-mail address,[email protected] or call me at 707-527-7628. you can call collect. my mother doesn't mind at all. please contact me. julia

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Cruella on March 15, 2005, 11:45:00 AM

My daughter is at Thayer.  She entered 12/04.  I believe she is making the program work for her.  She was lost before the decision was made to enroll her there.  She made bad choices and doors of opportunity were beginning to close.  She is making remarkable changes in her life with the help of Thayer.  I'm sure there will be questions, flaming, etc., with my decision to send her to boot camp, but looking at the alternatives for her, this was the best choice.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on March 15, 2005, 09:39:00 PM

Not here please, Cruella. Seriously. Thayer is a whole lot more frightening than what we had to deal with. I'm asking you respectfully to please not joke around here.

All who doubted or denied would be lost. To live a moral and honest life -- to keep your contracts, to take care of wife and child -- to make a happy home -- to be a good citizen, a patriot, a just and thoughtful man, was simply a respectable way of going to hell.
--

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on March 16, 2005, 12:10:00 AM

Cruella, Why on earth would you send your daughter to a program where you know they abuse and medically neglect the kids? For gosh sakes a kid died there what more do you need to know about the place? The boy who had his foot broke with their bare hands isn't enough? Come on lady. My daughter seemed to be flourishing there as well and then I went to check the place out after i heard about Roberto Reyes getting killed and saw that the place was a dungeon. I got a full tour. Yes I even saw one of the four isolation rooms. I had the pleasure of seeing the one the boy passed away in. I almost puked at the sight of it. It was the size of a broom closet. I'm not joking. Not even a bed was in this room. Of course not because a bed wouldn't have fit in this room. Let me tell you lady you're being jaded. This place is a living hell. Your daughter is doing just as well as they want you to think she's doing. If by chance you've talked to her and things seem great well let me tell you that if she tells you otherwise she will be punished severely. Dropped back to bootcamp for lying and manipulating. Believe me you don't know the first thing about how your daughter is doing. My daughter spent 4 months there. She is still having nightmares. Who knows how much counseling she'll need to get over the whole ordeal. And the whole time I believed that everything was peachy. Yeah peachy right up until I heard about the boys death. My gut was telling me for the whole 4 months that things weren't right but my husband kept saying I was just worried. Well I finally flew back there because my gut started screaming after the boy died. Boy did I make the right decision. I wanted to take her out sooner but I didn't know what I would do with her and her behaviors that got her there. Well those behaviors are all gone. She's so scared that she might have to go to another program. I guess you could call her scared strait. I've talked to girls who went throught the whole program and they told me that they faked it, they hated it and now they're rebelling because they resent having their teen age years robbed from them and not being believed about being abused there. I'm sorry but I don't believe that this program could help anybody get a better life. Yes it can help if you're looking for a program to teach your child how to lie and manipulate because they do a wonderful job of that. Well I've said enough for now. If you really do have a daughter at thayer please rethink it. At least go visit your daughter unannounced and demand to talk to her out in the field with no serveylance cameras or recorders. It's the least you can do. Thayer will tell you that she's lying and manipulating you but read the other stories and remember that she doesn't know what others are saying so you'll know she's not lying if she says similar things. Also if you haven't gone to isaccorp yet please go and read about the Reyes lawsuit. It's all true. And for your daughters sake I hope she's white because there's special treatment for kids who aren't and that's not a good thing.www.isaccorp.org is the address and go to the left and scroll down until you come to I think it's information then click on thayer. You'll learn all sorts of insane stuff about the place. Well good luck. I hope you at least go see your daughter. Please feel free to e-mail me back any time. I've got all sorts of information. I interviewed the neighbors, the people in town. I did a lot of research while I was in Missouri and none of it turned out good.My e-mail address is [email protected]

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Cruella on March 16, 2005, 10:12:00 AM

I'm not joking.  I did take the tour.  We took our daughter there ourselves, showed up unannounced and toured the place, before making the final decision to enroll her there.  Sure it's hard, it's military boot camp.

I thank you for the information you've provided and will think about it.  I've done a lot of research about this place before deciding on it over places that were similar, this one seemed to fit our daughter better.  I will email you.[ This Message was edited by: Cruella on 2005-03-16 08:01 ]

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on March 16, 2005, 11:01:00 AM

Of course all the things they show you before you enroll your child are peachy.  They were the same way when I enrolled my child.  I find it odd that they let you tour the facilities unannounced though.  When I arrived "unannounced" they refused me access to the building!  My son was only there one week and, like Pia above, my "gut" was telling me something wasn't right, so one week after enrolling him I arrived unannounced to pick him up.  I was in SHOCK at what I saw!  He is ankle was so swollen you couldn't see where the ankle started and stopped.  After a trip to the emergency room, it was determined the ankle was fractured.  This occurred on his first day there at the hands of a drill seargant and, despite numerous requests to see a doctor, he was denied medical treatment.  Furthermore, he was forced to exercise 18 hours a day on the fractured ankle.  He had a cough so horrible, it was just unreal.  He had major bronchitis, borderline pnemonia.  Again, he requested to see a doctor for this the one week he was there, but again, was denied.  He had soooo many cuts and bruises on his body it was unbelievable.  The cause?  Being hog-tied to another student and dragged through the showers. The reason for this punishment?  He wet his pants after being refused bathroom breaks repeatedly.

Does that sound like the way to help your child?  Sure, if you want them "beat into submission" they will listen to you.  But, we as parents arent allowed to beat our children into submission (not that I ever would), because it is against the law.  So, what gives them the right to do so.  And to make it even worse, YOU ARE PAYING THEM TO ABUSE AND NEGLECT YOUR CHILD.

I received my son's first letter home after I had already picked him and, if I hadn't picked him up when I did, by reading the letter he wrote, it seemed this place was a "God send" for him.  It was a very glowing and positive letter.  The clincher?  Ask him how many times he was forced to rewrite it until it was to the liking of his family rep.  SIX TIMES!  My son had to rewrite his letter home SIX TIMES, because each time he gave them the letter it obtained forbidden information. After the fifth letter he was "coached" on what to write because they were getting "frustrated" with the fact that he kept putting negative things about the program into his letter.  Care to know what some of the negative things in the letter were?  Just one example, Mom, my chest hurts so bad I can't breath, and I really need to see a doctor.  But, that is not acceptable to the staff, so they made him rewrite it, over and over, and over, and over and over and over!

So yes, when your daughter writes you and tells you how great it is, those are not her words, they are the coached words of your family rep.  When you talk to her on thr phone, there is someone standing right next to her on the same line listening to every word exchanged between the two of you.  And, your daugther knows, especially after having been there for 3 months, that if she says anything derogatory about the program, she will pay the price!

If you have any love at all for your daugther, show up there NOW, UNANNOUNCED and DEMAND to see your daugther out of their presence.  If she tells you the same things you have read on this board they must be true, because she would never have met any of the other students you hear about on here!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Mrs. Doubtfire on March 16, 2005, 01:55:00 PM

Pia ... Sign in with your screen name so we can send you Private Messages - you keep logging on as anonymous.

But keep writing girl... keep writing.  We must keep this thread open for others to find.

As for Cruella - she sounds like someone else we know who is/was in denial. When the facts are smacking you in the face; when the whole world is telling you "listen to your heart, your gut", be prudent in your decisions because all those other people are just crazy and disgruntled - then there is nothing you can do or say if they are that bloody stubborn.

You fight the fights you can win and we will always lose some, but look at how many were saved and that we will save in the future.  

Their children will hopefully "escape" from that dungeon and perhaps they might find this bulletin board. If they have a 4th grade education they can read and they will see that information regarding the truth about Thayer- with facts and witnesses - was available to their parents/guardians and it wasn't heeded.  

What a pathetic commentary on those parents who cut and run, and how very sad for their children to know that they were not a priority to the people who should love them the most.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on March 16, 2005, 02:12:00 PM

No, I think Cruella is a troll; a prank. Would a real program parent pick the name Cruella?

Interesting, though, that you folks who know personally and/or were program parents can't tell the difference right off the bat isn't it? But I don't think you folks are in the mood to laugh about this just now. And I'm pretty certain that Cruella hasn't read up on just how frightening the Thayer people are.

The lust for power, for dominating others, inflames the heart more than any other passion
Tacitus

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Cruella on March 16, 2005, 04:09:00 PM

It is interesting that you think me as a troll because of my user name.  It's (just) a name that I've been using online for years.

It's true that my daughter is in Thayer, and only a handful of people think as you do on the site.  So be it.  I believe that I have made the best decision for my child, as you probably don't understand the hell she has put us through the past year.  But thinking as you do, you will add a rebuttal.

The main reason I am here speaking is that when I did my research many months ago, I didn't find anything against Thayer, only great things.  I made many phone calls to Thayer and other like places, I chose Thayer as I have friends whose children went through it and gave great references.  Also, I do know that there have been at least 4 new girls enrolled since January.  So your words against programs haven't reached the majority of the people needing help for defiant teenagers.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on March 16, 2005, 06:15:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-03-16 11:12:00, Antigen wrote:

"No, I think Cruella is a troll; a prank. Would a real program parent pick the name Cruella?



Interesting, though, that you folks who know personally and/or were program parents can't tell the difference right off the bat isn't it? But I don't think you folks are in the mood to laugh about this just now. And I'm pretty certain that Cruella hasn't read up on just how frightening the Thayer people are.

The lust for power, for dominating others, inflames the heart more than any other passion
Tacitus

"

funny, I was thinking the same thing....i just figured this person was a mole from thayer.  isnt cruella the evil woman in 101 dalmations?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on March 16, 2005, 06:39:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-03-16 15:15:00, tlcrescue wrote:

. isnt cruella the evil woman in 101 dalmations?

Indeed, she is. Cruella DeVille. But I'm starting to wonder if I was mistaken. I just assumed this was BSarro. But, looking more closely, I don't think so.

The more BORING a child is, the more the parents,
when showing off the child, receive adulation for
being GOOD PARENTS -- because they have a TAME
CHILD-CREATURE in their house.
--Frank Zappa

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: ExSgtRocha on March 16, 2005, 08:14:00 PM

I was just wondering if your child put you through so much the last year, did you ever stop to think what you might have done in her earlier years or present that might have contributed to her attitude.

Maybe you need to look at yourself in the mirror and see if maybe there is something you need to change instead of sending your child off to be "corrected" by someone totally unqualified.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: ExSgtRocha on March 16, 2005, 08:15:00 PM

I was just wondering if your child put you through so much the last year, did you ever stop to think what you might have done in her earlier years or present that might have contributed to her attitude.

Maybe you need to look at yourself in the mirror and see if maybe there is something you need to change instead of sending your child off to be "corrected" by someone totally unqualified.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on March 16, 2005, 10:22:00 PM

I was just wondering how you went about your research. Did you bother to call DHS in Missouri? I mean, you must have come across some info to raise doubts.

Did you check ISAC? http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsnz.html#thayer (http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsnz.html#thayer)

Or did you just take references from the Bundys and call it good enough?


BTW, I'm still not sure you're not kidding. I mean seriously! After all the disturbing detalis surrounding the death of Roberto Reyes, wouldn't anyone intelligent enough to even locate the send button on the forum have already gotten their kid out of there?

The first human who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization.
--Sigmund Freud

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on March 17, 2005, 02:23:00 AM

This is Pia and I can't figure out how to sign in with my screen name. I do have one but I need help using it. It's so easy to just reply but I'll try to go in under my screen name.Pia

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: TLCNOMORE on March 17, 2005, 02:31:00 AM

O.k I've figured it out. That was so easy I feel stupid. Well I am when it comes to computers but I'm learning O.K. Now we can have private chats I'll just have to figure out how to access them. I'm really not a dummy It's just this whole computer thing got me all confused. Well I'm learning more everyday. So if you want contact me. Pia

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on March 17, 2005, 09:27:00 AM

pia, to check private messages on here, there is a button under the forums link to the left titled "private messages".  just click it...it may ask you to log in again.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Cruella on March 17, 2005, 10:48:00 AM

"I was just wondering if your child put you through so much the last year, did you ever stop to think what you might have done in her earlier years or present that might have contributed to her attitude.

Maybe you need to look at yourself in the mirror and see if maybe there is something you need to change instead of sending your child off to be "corrected" by someone totally unqualified."

Point taken.  I have more children than just my daughter.  All the children live under the same rules at home.  The other children don't have a problem with it at all.  My daughter decided when she turned 16 that rules (any rules) didn't apply to her.  She had this 18 year old boyfriend that helped her a lot into getting into trouble (fear of getting pregnant twice).  They ran away to the French Quarter to make a 'life' for themselves.  The laws in this state require a parent to actively participate in locating and bringing back your child who has run away (under the age of 18).  She ran off several times after this and swore she was doing drugs (although now she claims not to have touched any thing except for alcohol).  She was taken to the ER 4 times.  We've called the police on her various times for her violent behavior (threatening a younger sibling), running away, playing the suicide card, etc.  She made it to class 5 times last quarter.  (Five days out of six weeks.)  She was in JAC once.  She was in the mental hospital twice.  She was able to manipulate mental health doctors into giving her anti depressants.  We made counseling appointments for her, she acted up the days she was suppose to see her, those appointments were cancelled as my daughter ended up in the mental hospital (playing the game).  The list goes on and on.

It is easy to say to a parent, 'why didn't you parent her better'.  We are talking about teenagers here, they think they are invincible and don't have to live by the rules.  With counselors (doctors) and police departments on different pages, it's a wonder our children can manipulate the system.  They learn it from their friends.  In some peer groups this behavior is expected.  On the other hand, when a parent steps in and takes that child away from those groups---those so called friends never call to see what's up.

These children make choices on their own, some know the consequences of these choices, some gravely don't.  We had to stop her from making choices that would ultimately take her to the grave.

Sometimes it's not the parents fault children turn out the way they do.  Sometimes it is.  What could I have done differently?  Take her out of public school and place her into a small ratio (military based) christian school.  Where respect for yourself and everyone around you is re-enforced with what is taught at home.  That's what I would do differently if I had the chance to do it over again.

It's too bad that abuse runs wild everywhere.  Just recently, we had a teacher accused of having an affair with one or more of his students in a public school.  Kids are still shooting each other on school grounds.  Bullies are still taking potshots at their victims.  It's around no matter where you go.   [ This Message was edited by: Cruella on 2005-03-17 07:49 ]

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: ExSgtRocha on March 17, 2005, 01:19:00 PM

I have one thing more to say to Cruela and then I'm done.  If you think Thayer is going to turn your child around, make her have respect for herself and others and teach her to follow the rules.  YOU ARE SADLY MISTAKEN.  The only thing Thayer is going to teach her is how to be better at what she already knows.  I will not waste my energy on you anymore.  You will be the one to suffer the repercussions of your actions when your daughter returns home. Good luck, you will need it now more than ever.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on March 17, 2005, 04:02:00 PM

I just feel very sad for this kid. "Playing" the suicide "card?" It's really frightening that you think this way. And, from what I've heard so far about Thayer and the Bundy's other enterprises, she's not going to get any help there either. Just more grief.

As to what you could have done differently, who the hell knows? It's not about that. I know people who had great families and hit the skids anyway and others who's homelife was hell but who grew up just fine. As regards your daughter, here's a new idea for you; IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU!

You could do something differently now. How about taking her out of the care of these people who just recently let a kid die in their care. Read up on some of the facts coming out of that incident. They told everybody this kid was FAKING just like you think your daughter was FAKING a suicide attempt. And when they call you (if they even bother) and tell you she's at it again, obviously you'll take their word cause that's what you want to believe.

I hope the kid makes it through this ordeal. I hope the boyfriend waits around, too, cause she sure as hell doesn't have a mother to come home to.

Religions are all alike; founded upon fables and mythologies.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on March 17, 2005, 04:50:00 PM

Now just hang on one moment here!  "Cruella" writes "She was able to manipulate mental health doctors into giving her anti depressants."  Huh?  In case you didn't know, anti-depressants do *not* have any recreational/abuse potential.  They don't get you high.  They're not the objects of drug-seeking behavior.  So what reason on earth would a kid have to "manipulate" doctors into giving them to her?

It seems to me that if the doctors at the hospital administered anti-depressants to her, they must have diagnosed her with depression.  Unless "Cruella" subsequently took her daughter to a good pediatric psychiatrist who, through proper testing protocols, managed to rule out depression, there's no reason to think the initial diagnosis was wrong.

It sounds to me like "Cruella" simply doesn't *want* to believe that her daughter could have any problems other than simple refusal to kowtow.  She's apparently concluded that her daughter was simply faking symptoms of depression, yet nothing she's posted indicates that she's even remotely qualified to make that determination.  The diagnosis of depression is part of the practice of medicine, and anybody who tries to make/refute that diagnosis in another person (including their own child) without being themselves a qualified medical professional is practicing medicine without a license.

This "I know better than the experts" attitude is really at the core of the problem with all the "lock-up schools."  Most of the reported deaths have been kids who had real medical problems (both pre-existing conditions and injuries incurred during incarceration) which were ignored because people with *no medical qualifications whatsoever* took it upon themselves to judge the symptoms as malingering.  That is simply *not* something that an unqualified layman can judge for him/herself.

What got me following this whole area was my interest in pseudoscience and medical quackery.  Lock-up schools are, along with "attachment therapy" (does the name Candace Newmaker ring any bells?  If not, stick it into Google), the really dark side of the whole "alternative medicine" movement and the mentality it represents.  The underlying characteristic here is the "privileging" of gut feel and "common sense" (which in many cases is more properly called _prejudice_) over detailed knowledge and the scientific method.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on March 17, 2005, 06:13:00 PM

Oh, and BTW, props to some of our trolls. It's getting harder and harder to tell you apart from the real dingbats.

               The body of
        Benjamin Franklin, printer,
      (Like the cover of an old book,
            Its contents worn out,
    And scripts of it's lettering and gilding)
       Lies Here, food for worms!
     Yet the work itself shall not be lost,
For it will, as he believed, appear once more
                 In a new
         And more beautiful edition,
          Corrected and amended
                By it's Author!

Epitaph for himself.

--Benjamin Franklin 1706-1790

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: TLCNOMORE on March 18, 2005, 12:39:00 AM

Will everybody leave this poor Cruella woman alone. She needs to make a decision about the life of her daughter and you guys are just being vicious. maybe a little friendly advice might help. You push people away when you're so mean. She doesn't know everything that the rest of us know unless we tell her and give her resources to investigate. Remember that Thayer can be very convincing and manipulative and distraut parents are their specialty and an easy target as well. You people are being to judgmental in my opinion. Give this woman a chance to obsorb all the information she's being given. It's a tough decision to make when you don't know what you'll do with your child once you get them home. And don't blame her for her childs decisions. She may have been a great mother and her kid just went the wrong way. It happens. I agree that Thayer is no place to leave a teen to get help,especially the help this girl seems to need but this woman was brave enough to come on here and tell her story. Maybe she needs advice and support not criticism and ridicule. Well you all can get mad at me if you want for speaking my mind but this is how I feel. I'm not ashamed to sign this one either. Pia

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on March 18, 2005, 01:27:00 AM

I'm not mad at you, Pia. You came around here (and I'm guessing, this wasn't your only stop) looking for more depth. Cruella, otoh, seems to me to be looking just for some rassurance. If she can find the right Program recipe to refute all her lyin' eyes tell her, then that makes her a better Program parent. Trust the Process, remember?

Maybe I'm wrong. But if she keeps on in her thinking that suicide attempts are just head games all about influencing her, she's either going to wind up w/ a dead kid or a kid to whom she's dead.

Either way, I'm far more concerned for the daughter than for the mother.

I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.
--Frank Lloyd Wright, American architect

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on March 18, 2005, 08:25:00 AM

Pia, I can understand....and Cruella, I can understand how you feel as well.  I have 6 children, and out of all of them, only the one i sent to thayer seemed to feel the same way, that rules didnt apply to him.  But honey, there are alternatives to places like Thayer.  I really feel for you and would be willing to talk to you more in person or in private if you wish.  My son was only there one week, but the hell he went through the one week there was enough to make him understand that rules DO apply to him.  He has been out 6 weeks now and the transformation in him is amazing....i am sure that part of the reason is that he feels we might send him to another school.  I really would like to talk to you if interested.  Pia has my personal numbers, or you can private mail me here, or click on my profile nad private mail me at my email address.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Cruella on March 18, 2005, 11:21:00 AM

For those you have responded with VALUABLE information, THANK YOU.  I will keep in touch with you via e-mail.  

For others, you've received a SUMMARY of the hell that we've been through, I do not have the time to tell you every LITTLE detail of our lives.  I came here for more information, and credible references from those who've had bad experiences with Thayer.

Thanks again Pia and tlcrescue for your valued information.

Cru

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Deborah on March 19, 2005, 10:50:00 AM

"I went on http://www.baptiststandard.com (http://www.baptiststandard.com) and I'ts sad what happened at San Marcos Academy but look at what they did about it. The perpetrator was fired immediately, all families were contacted, charges were pressed and the program is clearly sorry that this happened and isn't trying to hide anything at least that I can see. This is how The Bundys should be acting lf they truley had nothing to hide."

That is questionable. Before you put them on a pedestal for having 'done the right thing', read this thread:
 http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... &forum=9&6 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8685&forum=9&6)
Excerpts

26 Jan 2002
http://amarillo.com/stories/010602/tex_ ... ther.shtml (http://amarillo.com/stories/010602/tex_studentmother.shtml)
Student, mother allege sexual abuse at boarding school

HOUSTON (AP) - Two years after a dormitory director was charged with sexual abuse, a former student and his mother are suing a San Marcos boarding school for negligence, alleging that school officials knew of the abuse and did nothing to stop it.

The Houston Chronicle reported in Saturday's editions that the lawsuit alleges school officials knew of Dixon's predatory behavior and "implicitly condoned it through inaction."

"Dixon often and repeatedly for years demonstrated sexually inappropriate behavior with children that was witnessed by employees, including supervisory employees at the academy," the lawsuit alleges.

Before the abuse, the lawsuit says, the boy had ranked high academically and was a cadet corps member. But he had to withdraw from the school and suffered an emotional collapse after officials discovered a pornographic video Dixon made in which the boy was an unwitting subject, the lawsuit stated.
****

In that thread you'll also read about another inappropriate sexual incident since then, resulting in decreased enrollment, and their dire attempt to change their image.
Point being, this appears to be a valid concern when kids are incarcerated. Parents should have the safe talk with their kid AND refuse to have contact limited or severed, if they are going to board them anywhere.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: ExSgtRocha on March 19, 2005, 11:13:00 PM

Cruella,

I was wanting to hear an update from you.
Have you went and got your child out?

Please !!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on March 21, 2005, 04:25:00 AM

i dunno what to say but my name is chance rutherford yeah i went to TLC. and guess what. im going back. thats right im raising money to storm up there myself. well not really storm more of drizzle. im probably gonna stay in cameron for a few days. i dont really have this planned out yet but im gonna do something. also the fact that its 3 23 in the morning but im gonna drag my lazy ass up there and fucking kill some damn mormons. well not kill, but somethings gonna happen. AIM = nonesuch2890 . if you fucking attended TLC you better im me bitch nipple. also [email protected] thats another little doozy of a way to contact me. yeah. nipples. and shit. :scared:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on March 22, 2005, 11:14:00 PM

What happened to Cruella?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on March 23, 2005, 09:59:00 AM

she was going to visit her daughter this coming weekend, so she may be on the road traveling.  I have had a few conversations with Cruella and she did say that if anything seemed amiss during her visit this week she would pull her daughter out.  Let's pray for the best for her daughter!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on March 23, 2005, 10:02:00 AM

What about the dalmation puppies?  :lol:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on March 23, 2005, 10:06:00 AM

http://www.myrorna.se/bilder_rullande/h ... 0Ville.JPG (http://www.myrorna.se/bilder_rullande/heroes/Cruella%20de%20Ville.JPG)

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: TLCNOMORE on March 23, 2005, 01:31:00 PM

You people aren't funny with your Cruella and your puppy jokes. And further more if she does decide to leave her child there you, the ones of you who treated her like shit just for coming on the forum for advice can thank yourselves for pushing her away. Thayer is very nice to parents and you people treat those same parents like shit. Figure it out. Who would you listen to and have faith in. The one who is being nice to you or the one who is treating you like shit? I'm a parent so I know how convincing Thayer can be. Yeah It's a big manipulation but if you don't know them and what they're doing you don't have a clue that they are lying. And there's you people talking mean to this woman. You just pushed her right into the arms of the devil so to speak. Congradulations! I think whoever you are that asked about Cruella has a lot of nerve. You're probably one of the ones who pushed her away. Well BRAVO everybody. Another child probably not saved. Some of you might try softening up your approach with people or saying nothing at all. Thayer tells people that everybody on this forum is either a disgruntled ex fired employee or a pissed off parent who took their kid out early and the program didn't work for their kid because they didn't complete the program. This is what I was told by many different people at Thayer when I asked about fornits and why all these people would be saying these things. I have to admit that I was confused by the conflicting stories. Well it's a lucky thing that I never posted on here before I took Julia out of Thayer because I'm pretty sure if you people would have treated me the way you treated Cruella I would have gotten my feelings really hurt, not believed you maybe even believed Thayer and never came on the forum again. Who knows. Julia might even still be there had I got comments from some of you before I went there. Go ahead and get mad at me all you want because I could care less about what you think of my bluntness. You need to hear it again. Everybodies goal is to save the kids from hell but just remember honey gets you a lot more than vinegar. Pia

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: terrified_mother on March 27, 2005, 05:46:00 AM

I've had a Google news alert set up for Thayer since last August and this article did not appear in any alert.  Perhaps you have not seen it either.
 Posted on Sun, Jan. 23, 2005
 
 
 


Referral agency's connection to boot camp angers parents

By STEVE ROCK

The Kansas City Star


Several parents who sent their troubled teens to Thayer Learning Center in northwest Missouri were referred to the school by what they thought was an independent agency.

In fact, the Parent Help referral service is operated by the same people who run Thayer, a military-style boot camp where a 15-year-old California boy recently died. The death triggered a state investigation and prompted former students and employees to come forward with allegations of physical and emotional abuse of students.

The connection between the two businesses, less than 15 miles apart, angered several parents who spoke recently with The Kansas City Star. They said the relationship was never disclosed during conversations with Parent Help employees.

?I was very emotional and desperate in a way,? said Vicki Young of Ohio, who sent her son to Thayer in July 2003. ?And I thought this was a parent help group.

?I didn't have any hint they were related.?

A leading business ethicist said the relationship between the two businesses is clearly a conflict of interest, while a child welfare agency official said such a connection is not uncommon, but should have been disclosed.

Three former employees of Parent Help told The Star they were coached to send as many children as possible to Thayer. Two of those former employees said they never disclosed to callers that husband and wife John and Willa Bundy ran both businesses, and one of them said a fellow staff member said not to mention it.

The Bundys ? who opened Thayer Learning Center Boot Camp and Boarding School in Kidder, Mo., in 2002 ? have offices at the Parent Help building in Gallatin, Mo., according to former Parent Help employees.

The Bundys declined to take questions from The Star, referring inquiries to their attorney, Ed Proctor. Proctor didn't respond to several messages left with his office.

But Wally Kerr, sales manager at Parent Help, said Thayer is one of about 15 facilities nationwide that Parent Help represents. The Parent Help Web site last week listed eight in addition to two Thayer programs. Kerr said no greater emphasis is placed on sending kids to Thayer than to other schools.

?We try to get the best program possible for (the children),? he said in a telephone interview.

When asked whether Parent Help employees disclose the connection between Parent Help and Thayer to parents, Kerr said they only refer them to Thayer's Web site. The disclosure, Kerr said, ?comes through having them look at the Web site.?

Separate Web sites for Thayer and for Parent Help include an identical section describing the Bundys as the owner of each. Each site briefly mentions the Bundys' connection to the other business.

Some of the parents contacted by The Star, however, either don't remember being sent to Thayer's Web site or never saw the mention of Parent Help.

?We're proud of the fact that the Bundys have established a school and that they've established a parent help operation,? Kerr said. ?There's nothing to hide here.?

One parent said she called the Missouri attorney general's office to complain that there wasn't full disclosure but was told to put her complaint in writing. Scott Holste, a spokesman for that office, said the Consumer Protection Division hadn't received any formal, written complaints about Parent Help. His office would look into any complaints lodged, he said.

Thayer, located about 50 miles north of Kansas City, houses about 100 teens.

At the request of the Caldwell County sheriff's office, the Missouri Department of Social Services is investigating the November death of Thayer student Roberto Reyes to determine if abuse or neglect was involved. Gus Kolilis, deputy director of the department's legal division, said an investigative team has interviewed ?numerous? people.

?We're not leaving anything unturned,? he said.

No charges have been filed in connection with Reyes' death. Caldwell County Prosecutor Jason Kanoy said he was awaiting results from the state investigation, which could come as early as this week, before deciding whether his office would take any action. After Reyes' death, a panel of county and state officials charged with reviewing child deaths said earlier medical treatment ?may have prevented this fatality.? The Jackson County medical examiner's office said the probable cause of death was a spider or insect bite.

The review by county and state officials ? coupled with police reports and allegations made by former students and employees ? painted a disturbing picture of life at Thayer.

A Dec. 19 story in The Star cited police reports and interviews with seven former Thayer employees and students that alleged physical and emotional abuse of students, such as one being forced to eat her own vomit, medical neglect and another student being forced to sit in a tub of urine.

In a written response to The Star in December, Thayer officials called the allegations ?ludicrous and false.?

Since the story was published, at least two children have been removed from Thayer by their parents.

Now some parents are raising questions about the manner in which their children wound up at Thayer in the first place.

Parent Help hot line

Some former Parent Help employees said they were reluctant to publicly discuss their experience there because they fear legal retribution from John and Willa Bundy.

Thayer Learning Center has filed at least one lawsuit against former Thayer employees, alleging defamation and other things.

But conversations with three former Parent Help employees, as well as relatives of six children who have been at the school, offered insight into the placement process.

Several parents said they found the Parent Help hot line number on the Internet. John Bundy is listed on an online site that registers Web domains as the administrative contact for several sites, such as http://www.troubledteen.com (http://www.troubledteen.com) and http://www.teenprogram.info (http://www.teenprogram.info). Neither of those sites clearly identifies their connection with the Bundys or Thayer Learning Center, but both sites mention Thayer as a ?featured school.?

Both of those sites, and others, encourage parents to call the same 800 number. One parent said she called the number, then never went back to the Internet to do further research.

?Why would I?? the parent asked. ?Parent Help said so many wonderful things about Thayer.?

The 800 number is answered by employees at the office in Gallatin, in a building that has no obvious signs identifying Parent Help. Kerr said the business, which has about six employees, gets from 50 to 150 calls a day and additional inquiries via e-mail.

The employees who answer calls to the 800 number are not counselors, two of the former employees said, but salesmen who get commission for placing students at Thayer or other facilities. They ask the parents, many of whom are distraught about their child's behavior, various questions about the child and tell them they'll find the facility that best fits him or her.

According to the former employees, though, the Parent Help representative recommends Thayer, where costs can exceed $50,000 a year, to as many parents as possible.

?If you called and your kid was over 12, I was sending you to Thayer,? said one former employee who did not want to be identified.

Matthew Turley, who said he worked for Parent Help from July to October 2004, said: ?You would try to put the kid into Thayer, or suggest that one over any other one.?

Turley said he never felt awkward pushing Thayer.

?To me, it never felt like I was trying to keep something under wraps,? he said. ?I just felt that Thayer was one of the better ones ? from what I heard.?

Besides, both he and Kerr said, not every child is sent to Thayer. There are some children ? those younger than 13 and older than 17, for example ? that Thayer typically won't take.

So some kids are sent to places such as Bonneville Canyon in Maine.

?They have been very good to us,? Michelle Tibbetts, who works in admissions for Bonneville Canyon, said of her organization's relationship with Parent Help. Tibbetts said she was unaware of the connection between Thayer and Parent Help.

Kerr said employees aren't coached to send kids to Thayer but ?to get them into the correct program.?

?We don't follow a script,? he said.

As far as the connection between Parent Help and Thayer, Turley said that unless asked specifically, ?we would never tell (the parents) that.?

That infuriates W. Michael Hoffman, executive director of the Center for Business Ethics at Bentley College near Boston.

?I've heard of a lot of conflicts of interest, but this is way over the top,? he said. ?To say the least, it's clearly unethical ? especially when you're dealing with children, children who obviously need help.?

Joe Healy, director of residential services for the Child Welfare League of America, based in Washington, D.C., said it's not uncommon for agencies to operate a referral center and a placement facility.

?For those that do, it would be typical that it's clear to everybody that they do both and that the referral might be to one of their own programs,? Healy said. ?It would seem to me, ethically, that you would disclose that.?

Angry families

All Young wanted to do was help her son, now 18.

Her teenage son had become defiant, and Young wanted a military-type school for him, a structured and regimented environment that also had an educational component.

Young scoured the Internet, eventually finding the Parent Help Web site, which states: ?We help parents with troubled teens.? She filled out a questionnaire and waited for a phone call, which she believed would be from an independent referral service.

The person who returned her call recommended Thayer.

?He said he had actually been to that facility to see what it was all about and that he was very impressed,? Young remembers. ?He said there were several programs, but specifically recommended Thayer Learning Center.?

Based on the recommendation, Young and her husband drove their son from Ohio to Thayer in July 2003.

The grandmother of a different child also didn't realize there was a connection between Thayer and Parent Help. Jacqueline Payne, a Texas resident, desperately wanted to help her granddaughter. She found the Parent Help hot line number on the Internet and said she spoke with a Parent Help employee at least five or six times.

Not once did the connection between Thayer and Parent Help come up.

?I was real specific about what I wanted,? Payne said. ?He just said, ?It sounds like Thayer is the school you want.' He really talked them up and said the owner, Willa Bundy, had a lot of experience with kids. It sounded like the perfect match.

?There was never, ever any indication that they weren't an independent company. There was a curtain of dishonesty there.?

Payne's granddaughter was at Thayer for less than four months in 2003.

Parent Help Inc. was registered in Utah in February 1998. John Bundy, 47, is listed as the registered agent in Utah secretary of state filings. Thayer Learning Center LLC was registered in Missouri in August 2002, and lists Willa Bundy, 43, as the registered agent.

Ricky Parker wishes he knew about the connection between the two facilities before he sent his son to Thayer in November 2003. The Parent Help representative he spoke with pushed Thayer ?the whole way,? he said.

?I thought I was talking to an organization that would help me choose, out of maybe several schools, where to send my child,? said Parker, who removed his son in January 2004. ?It was like, ?Hey, man, I worked there for a time. They really know what they're doing. They're very caring.'

?I thought they were advising me.?

His thoughts now?

?I'm out about $20,000,? he said.

To reach Steve Rock, call

(816) 234-4338 or send e-mail to [email protected].


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First glance

? A northwest Missouri military-style boot camp and a referral agency that recommends the school are run by the same people.

? Some parents who sent their children to Thayer Learning Center are angry because they thought the referral was coming from an independent agency.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finding the right fit

Ruth Ehresman, policy director of Citizens for Missouri's Children, a nonprofit child advocacy group based in St. Louis, says parents need to ask tough questions when looking for a home for their troubled teen.

If dealing with a referral service, ask whether the service has any

affiliations with the schools it represents. When dealing directly with the facility, Ehresman suggests asking questions such as:

? Is the school credentialed, licensed or accredited? If so, by whom?

? Are staff screened? What kind of training is required of staff?

? Is there a written discipline policy?

? What's the provision for medical care?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: terrified_mother on March 27, 2005, 05:56:00 AM

This evening I Yahoo searched Thayer, what I found is troubling.  The first 2 pages of site results are owned by the Bundys.  A few newspaper articles show up at around the 100 hit marker.  The first hit for the Fornits Forum is at 184 and it dumps you at the search page.  The second hit for Fornits is at 239 and it dumps you into the Straight Inc topic titled Candace's Law dated 2001-12-24.  I searched past the 500 marker on Yahoo and did not see a hit for http://www.ISACCORP.COM (http://www.ISACCORP.COM).  If anyone has a suggestion as to how one might go about getting the truth on top of the pile I'd like to hear it.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on March 27, 2005, 07:39:00 AM

Quote

On 2005-03-27 02:56:00, terrified_mother wrote:

"This evening I Yahoo searched Thayer, what I found is troubling.  The first 2 pages of site results are owned by the Bundys.  A few newspaper articles show up at around the 100 hit marker.  The first hit for the Fornits Forum is at 184 and it dumps you at the search page.  The second hit for Fornits is at 239 and it dumps you into the Straight Inc topic titled Candace's Law dated 2001-12-24.  I searched past the 500 marker on Yahoo and did not see a hit for http://www.ISACCORP.COM (http://www.ISACCORP.COM).  If anyone has a suggestion as to how one might go about getting the truth on top of the pile I'd like to hear it."

For a start, use a better search engine.  A Google on "thayer learning center" brings up ezboard at 2, nospank at 3, Fornits at 5, Kansas City Star at 6, National Youth Rights Association at 8, the8thstep at 11, ISAC at 18, and HEAL at 23.

I have noticed that search engines seem to pay a lot of attention to the contents of the title bar and headings.  One thing Ginger might do if she has got the time and inclination is put the topic in the title bar and sub topic in heading tags.  My bet is it will make the relevant Fornits posts a lot more findable.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on March 27, 2005, 02:03:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-03-27 04:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

One thing Ginger might do if she has got the time and inclination is put the topic in the title bar and sub topic in heading tags. My bet is it will make the relevant Fornits posts a lot more findable.

That's a really good idea! I don't know if I can pull it off easily or not. I'll just have to go and see how complicated it will be to grab that data before building the page header. If I remember right, I took a stab at it once and found it to be non-trivial. But maybe I've learned a trick or two in the mean time.

Here's another idea. Please feel free to copy and paste any and all content that you find relavent all over the net w/ links back (to here, to ISAC to one of the lists of Maia Szalavitz's writings or to whatever you want to promote)

And you're right about the search engines. I quit using Yahoo years ago. As soon as they started charging for guaranteed listings, the signal/noise ratio just started to hit the skids.

But then, I think it reflects on the mentality of someone who would buy into the troubled parent industry. I think you have to want to be sold, or be predisposed to buy into bullshit.

Reminds me of the bad old days when I was so desperate for a paycheck that I spent my days and evenings trying to sell people pre-need funeral arrangements. It was never about good taste or even common decency. There's no good way to call up a stranger and say "Hey, Mr. Jones, would you like to put down that pork chop and plan your funeral right now?" It's just a numbers game and, believe it or not, about 1/100 will say "Sure, why not?" regardless of what you're selling.

Not a place upon earth might be so happy as America. Her situation is remote from all the wrangling world, and she has nothing to do but to trade with them.
--Thomas Paine

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on March 27, 2005, 02:34:00 PM

It was right there all the time! It's a little inelegant, as I just ditched the page title entirely (overly long titles make google suspicious) so, if we've got a topic, it's there, otherwise it's not.

Thanks! Oh, if you have any more bright ideas, please send email or post to the "Web Forum Hosting" forum, as I may or may not find it in a discussion thread.

Thanks again!

A student burst into his office.  "Professor Stigler, I don't believe I deserve this F you've given me."  To which Stigler replied, "I agree, but unfortunately it is the lowest grade the University will allow me to award."
--Professor Stigler

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on April 04, 2005, 09:27:00 PM

I just wanted to make sure no one has forgotten what a terrible place Thayer is.  The physical abuse and the mental abuse which is so much worse.  Several children have nightmares in the middle of the night wake up crying and standing at attention in their sleep.  What horrible people could possibly do this to a child and feel good about themselves.  I guess the Bundy's, they've made a living at it.

DON'T FORGET ROBERTO REYES !!!!

REST IN PEACE AND GODD BLESS

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Mrs. Doubtfire on April 05, 2005, 02:37:00 PM

I have to admit I too am stunned... as soon as Ginger gave Thayer a dedicated site, everyone disappeared.  The Bundy's must be thrilled; hell, no wonder people like that win at terrorizing our children.

Two of the saddest words in the English language are ignorance and apathy. Apparently it has reached epidemic proportions here.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on April 05, 2005, 05:36:00 PM

I'm really upset about this too. I thought I was doing something helpful here, but it seems I've not done that.

No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Cayo Hueso on April 05, 2005, 05:50:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-04-05 14:36:00, Antigen wrote:

"I'm really upset about this too. I thought I was doing something helpful here, but it seems I've not done that.

No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles

"

Not quite sure why you would attribute that to anything you've done, but give it time.  Like anything else around here, it all comes out in the wash.

Government operates best when it allows all messengers to offer their views, allowing the American people to decide which take root and which wither away.
--Harold Furchtgott-Roth, member of the Federal Communications Commission

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2005, 04:21:00 AM

This is just a guess but if lawsuits are being prepared it could be that the lawyers have told their clients to hold their peace.  They might want to keep their powder dry.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: tlcrescue on April 06, 2005, 10:25:00 AM

It has nothing to do with lawsuits.  I don't know why it has quieted down.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2005, 01:55:00 PM

maybe because people have realized theres nothin you can do?I've been working at this since DEC 2003, and STILL nothing has happened, so I guess I'm just going to give up.I just stop in here like once a week now.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on April 21, 2005, 07:30:00 PM

Posted on Thu, Apr 21, 2005

Boot camp sues ex-employee
By Steve Rock The Kansas City Star

FIRST GLANCE
Thayer Learning Center said in its lawsuit that Timothy J Rocha breached an employee agreement and has attempted to steer customers and potential customers away from the boot camp.


A northwest Missouri boot camp has sued one of its most vocal critics, saying a former employee has cused "irreparable harm" and asking for more than $75,000.00 in damages.

Thayer Learning Center, a military-type home for about 100 troubled teens in Kidder, Mo., filed a lawsuit last week in Caldwell County Circuit Court against Timothy J Rocha os St. Joseph.  Rocha, who made $9.00 an hour as a "sergeant," worked at Thayer from Aug. 28, 2004 until he was fired less than two weeks later.

In the lawsuit, Thayer said Rocha breached a signed employment agreement that stated he would not "divert, take away... or intervene with any present or future customer."  Thayer alleges that Rocha has contacted customers and attempted - sometimes successfully - to steer them away from Thayer and that he appears to be using contact information that was unlawfully obtained.  It also says Rocha "successfully diverted away potential customers" but doesn't specify how.

Thayer also asked the court to grant a temporary restraining order that would prohibit Rocha from contacting former, existing or potential clients.

Joseph Elliott, a St. Joseph attorney for Rocha, said Wednesday that he had no comment.  Attorneys for Thayer could not be reached.

According to the lawsuit, Thayer "has experience a significant decrease in revenues" because of Rocha's actions.  An accompanying plaintiff's document pegs those losses in the "thousands of dollars" and says the school "is in danger of losing more."

Rocha has been quoted in various news outlets, including The Kansas City Star, about his experience at Thayer.  In a Dec. 19 report in The Star, he recalled his brief employment at Thayer and said he was stunned by what he thought were abusive practices.

"By the second day," he said at the time, "I was telling my wife, 'This isn't right.'"

He asked some students for their parents' names and phone numbers, an action that he said led to his firing.  He called some of those parents and encouraged them to remove their children from Thayer.

Rocha filed two reports of alleged child abuse with CAldwell County sheriff's office in September, noting in one that a student had been placed in "half a chokehold" and that a Thayer employee then sat on the students's legs.

Thayer officials have called allegations of child abuse "ludicrous and false."

Rocha is also listed as a witness in a recent state investigative report, which was released to The Star last week.  The investigation was conducted at the request of the Caldwell County sheriff's office after a 15-year-old student died in November.  The final report contains documents sent from Thayer to the parent of a Thayer student, who in turn sent them to Rocha.

The documents suggest that the parent had contact with Rocha before removing her son from Thayer.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: terrified_mother on April 25, 2005, 08:02:00 AM

Tim Rocha is a hero.  An everyday, man next door, hero.  He saw an enormous wrong and has tried to make it right.  The legal attack on him will not make the truth go away.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on April 25, 2005, 11:38:00 AM

Quote

On 2005-04-21 16:30:00, Anonymous wrote:

According to the lawsuit, Thayer "has experience a significant decrease in revenues" because of Rocha's actions.

Never mind the dead kid, the lawsuit and criminal investigation. No, those aren't the problem. Why, we kill kids all the time and still the industry grows and grows. Must be this one disgruntled employee.  :roll:

I do not believe in the immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on April 25, 2005, 11:39:00 AM

Quote

On 2005-04-21 16:30:00, Anonymous wrote:

Rocha is also listed as a witness in a recent state investigative report, which was released to The Star last week.

Can you say "wittness tampering?" Sure! I knew ya' could! :rofl:

science is the record of dead religions.
--Oscar Wilde

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2005, 06:47:00 PM

Parents, staff denounce Thayer Learning Center

By Ray Scherer
[email protected]
St. Joseph News Press

May 1, 2005

Three weeks after its release, a state report on the death of a teen boot camp cadet continues to spawn reaction among parents and former workers.

The Missouri Department of Social Services investigation concluded that Thayer Learning Center's failure to offer medical care to
15-year-old Roberto Reyes contributed to his death -most likely from a brown recluse spider bite - in November Roberto's parents, Gracia and Victor Reyes, subsequently filed a wtrong-ful death lawsuit against the camp.  

Meanwhile, Caldwell County Prosecutor Jason Kanoy has yet to decide whether he will file charges based on the report's findings.  Mr. Kanoy was out of his courthouse office last week and unavailable for comment.  

An initial status review for the lawsuit is set for Wednesday morning before Buchanan County Circuit Court Judge Weldon Judah.  It's estimated that a jury trial would last two weeks.

In the interim, two more parents and a former worker contacted by the News-Press offered personal stories on their experiences with Thayer.  Their versions of what happened at the camp add to accounts of physical abuse and
medial negligence reviewed in the Reyes' report.

Karen Avera of Texas decided to pull her son, Ryan, out of Thayer after only one week in January.  News of Roberto's death contributed to her decision.

Her arrival at the camp to retrieve Ryan worried her even more.  He was covered in cuts and bruises and was hopping on one foot, she said.  His face had a sunken appearance and he had lost 10 to 15 pounds in his brief saty.

"I was completely shocked at what I saw," Ms. Avera said.  "He looked so bad.  As far as he knew he was going to a boarding school."

Officials refused to offer medical treatment for a fractured left ankle, she said.  She also alleged that at one point, Ryan was tied to another student and dragged across a shower floor.

Ms. Avera said he witnessed other students being abused.  An example of abuse she cited were students being force fed.

"There was one other child there who was getting it even worse than my son was," she said.

Sue Warner of Connecticut became so concerned and uncomfortable that she decided to remoce her son, Justin.  Justin, who stayed at Thayer for four months, came down with a high fever at one point.  He wasn't taken to see a docotr and staff only gave Tylenol to help alleviate the condition, she said.

"He was medically neglected," Ms. Warner said.

Besides being ill for a week, Justin was forced to endure manatory exercise drills despite soreness.

"They continued to make him run, even though his knees hurt him," Ms Warner said.

The abuse wasn't limited to physical means, she said.

"One of the sergeants was calling my son a gang member," Ms. Warner said.

In another incident, Justin was unsuccessful in disaproving a staff claim that he stole muffins.

Ms. Warner admitted being naive at first kept her from becoming alarmed about Thayer.  Now,  she offers support to other parents of ex-students.

One of the school's former drill sergeants, Ed Black, said staff would occasionally resort to certain tactics to punish all cadets for one person's mistake.

"It was a common practice to deprive the children of sleep," Mr. Black said.  "They would routinely wake them up in the middle of the night and have what they called a 'smoke session' as a way of punishment...  During a smoke session, they would have the children doing push-ups, mountain climbers, eight-counts, sit-ups, leg lifts or running.  Some of the children ran until they fell out.  At that time, the drill instructor would get in the cadet's face and start yelling at them to stop the theatrics and get up and exercise."

No matter what, Mr. Black said, "the drill instructors wanted the sergeants to yell at the cadets all the time.  But they also wanted you to praise them while they were being punished."  

The smoke sessions could last as long as three to four hours, Mr. Black said.  

State investigators said Roberto was ordered to wear a 20-pound sandbag around his neck as punishment for not participating in exercises.

"Everybody thought he was just lazy," one drill sergeant said in an interview conducted by a state social services team.

Willa Bundy, one of Thayer's owners, told investigators that Roberto would encourage disobedience amoung other students.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: finlyrite on May 01, 2005, 07:47:00 PM

State report critical of boot camp over California teen's death

Associated Press

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - A state report on the death last year of a California teenager at a northwest Missouri boot camp found fault with access to medical care there and said records may have been falsified.

The Caldwell County Sheriff's Department had asked the Missouri Department of Social Services to investigate the November death of Roberto Reyes, 15, of Santa Rosa, Calif. The youth died at the Thayer Learning Center in Kidder, less than two weeks after arriving there. An autopsy cited complications from rhabdomyolysis, a breakdown of muscle fibers, and said the condition was probably due to a spider or insect bite.

In a wrongful death lawsuit filed in February in Buchanan County Circuit Court, the boy's parents alleged that he was subjected to physical exertion and abuse that caused or contributed to his death. Reyes' parents also claim their son would have lived had he received competent and timely medical care.

The state report was given last week to Jason Canoy, the Caldwell County prosecutor, who released it to The Kansas City Star. Canoy said he hadn't decided whether he would take any action.

"There are some alarming parts about it," he said of the 275-page report. "But I have not made a decision as to who I would file charges on or if I would file charges at all."

The state team that investigated said the boot camp apparently "failed ... to provide access to appropriate medical evaluation and/or treatment." Further, it said, "interviews and evidence also suggest significant contradictions and possible deliberate falsification of written records."

Ed Proctor, an attorney for Thayer, was unavailable for comment Thursday, but has told The Star that "every child at Thayer has immediate access to medical care at any time."

In interviews excerpted in the state report, owners John and Willa Bundy, along with other people connected with the camp, said they didn't know or think the boy was sick before he died. Willa Bundy also said she hadn't read the records in question until she was interviewed by a state investigator in late February.

At least 10 people identified as Thayer employees gave the state investigators descriptions of the boy, one saying he appeared lazy, another saying his attitude was bad. Some said he struggled to keep up with the rigorous exercise, that he complained of sore muscles, needed assistance walking and at times used others as "a crutch."

At least four said they never saw or were told anything to suggest Roberto was sick. But one drill sergeant said she eventually came to think he might be sick, and at some point relayed her opinion to Dorothy Steele, identified in the report as the facility's medical officer. The report said Steele, also the general manager of the kitchen facilities, is not a registered nurse and that an EMT license that she had expired in 2003.

Steele told investigators she treated Reyes on Nov. 1 for blisters on his feet. Besides sore arm and leg muscles, had no other medical complaints, she said.

Former employee Sarah Mackey, who resigned in December, told investigators her duties included filing daily "shift notes" about students and activities. The report said that after Roberto died, she read notes from the days leading up to his death and "stated that every day the log sheets indicated that Roberto was getting worse and worse and worse."

Mackey told the investigators that Willa Bundy later took files of the shift notes, asked for 10 blank forms and went into her office. When Mackey later reviewed faxed copies of shift notes sent to the state by an attorney for the boot camp, she "stated they were inaccurate and incomplete, compared to the shift notes she had seen and read in the office."

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: finlyrite on May 01, 2005, 07:52:00 PM

The Bundy's blame everyone else for anything negative.  I should have realized that when I saw the contract - they are not responsible for anything ANY employee does - that should have been my red flag.  Now, they want to blame an ex-employee - not the fact they ARE NEGLIGENT TO THE CHILDREN THAT THEIR PARENTS ARE PAYING $4,000 A MONTH TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.  PLEASE PARENTS - DO YOUR HOMEWORK - I HAVE HAD TO LIVE WITH MY MISTAKE OF SENDING MY SON TO THAYER.

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: finlyrite on May 01, 2005, 08:04:00 PM

Over a year ago, there was much postings both favorable (by Mrs. Bundy herself) and upon researching her statements and finding incorrect or an out and lie - whatever your preference - the entire site disappeared before my eyes -- while John Bundy was on the telephone conversing about my complaints with the program - and blatantly stated the ezboard web site was gone --his attorney had it removed.   There you go folkes - if you are TRULY professional and credible - why would you "brag" that the web postings have been deleted?

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: finlyrite on May 01, 2005, 08:14:00 PM

Tim Rocha stepped up and did what the Attorney General should have done over a year ago.   If the Attorney General was proactive in their responsiblity to the State of Missiouri and the taxpayers of these United States, Reyes may be alive today!!!!  Believe me...the State of MO has received allegations of neglect at a minimum.  It will now be interesting to see if the DA steps up to file criminal charges of neglect.  There are witness statements as Willa Bundy attempting to falsification of logs.  Yea, Willa Bundy told me she had pages and pages of documents my son had written about me and when I asked why I was not given copies of those documents, Willa Bundy told me they were "confidential"--but I knew it was another of her bold face lies and considered the source.  Now I understand she has stated that the records are destroyed when a cadet leaves Thayer.  Which is it?  Is the State of Missouri going to continue to look the other way, even after the death of a child.  Pretty bad when us naive parents PAY someone to neglect your child to the point the child dies!!!!!

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on May 25, 2005, 12:13:00 PM

i was a cadet not to long a go and i feed the 14 year old kid who died i was right by his side every time i tried to help or feed him they would pull me away from him. i was the one who washed him and feed him he was a large child and he continued to fall and could not stand or even sit up it was very bad but ill atmit they did not bet him the pick him up and he fell on his face every time the brewses where from himself and thats the truth.at thayer they show no mercy at all they do not kare.
   anther problem i had was that the female staff was a set up as soon as you made a move they would fill charges on you but they advertice them selfs and they were extremly tight close and trie to hide look out they are bad news

ronald spaulding

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Antigen on May 25, 2005, 01:38:00 PM

Welcome Ronald,
  Thanks for posting. Can you explain how Roberto got those drag marks on his feet? News reports say they looked like drag marks. I would imagine that, in the context of what goes on day-to-day at Thayer, you might not consider dragging someone in a way that would scrape the skin off their feet to be the same as beating. But it really is.

In God's wildness lies the hope of the world x the great fresh unblighted, unredeemed wilderness. The galling harness of civilization drops off, and wounds heal ere we are aware.
-- John Muir

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: eyecandy on August 04, 2005, 09:41:00 PM

Quote

On 2005-05-25 10:38:00, Antigen wrote:

"Welcome Ronald,

  Thanks for posting. Can you explain how Roberto got those drag marks on his feet? News reports say they looked like drag marks. I would imagine that, in the context of what goes on day-to-day at Thayer, you might not consider dragging someone in a way that would scrape the skin off their feet to be the same as beating. But it really is.

In God's wildness lies the hope of the world x the great fresh unblighted, unredeemed wilderness. The galling harness of civilization drops off, and wounds heal ere we are aware.
-- John Muir

"

i know why he had drag marks, male jr staff some drill sgts such as caro n vaughan n sperry and also felllow bootcamp cadets "had" to drag reyes everywhere becuase he was too heavy to carry and sgt pikula said he had to be present at all activities and fully participating beacuse otherwise the whole team would have to pay, as it is the were always getting smoked for reyes because he was unwilling or unable to participate and cooperate, i was in jr staff though female jr staff at the time and i wasnt supposed to pay attention to him buteverything happening to him caught my eye and i convinced some of the male sgts to tell me everything they knew about this cadet. as in why was he here, how come sgt pikula was so intent on breaking him? what was it he was refusing to do? how come he was having so many sgts in his face all the time?what the sgt told me is that this cadet, (reyes) was always falling down, he could barely stand and while in the shower he pooped all over himself then fell in it and just lay there, the team leader had to finish showering him, he told me that he would sit on the toilet and just zone out for like 45 minutes, forget he was even on the toilet. he would get taken down all the time, sgt pikula was just a little bit bigger then him and she would take him down mashing his face in the muddy sand while she sat on top of him. i remember the day he died, see i was in jr staff and therefore could come and go without supervision and as i was crossing the catwalk in the male's building i looked down because there was a lot of pounding and yelling which i didnt expect since all of male bootcamp was outsidee. down in the bay on the bottom left hand corner looking down from the chow hall was roberto reyes, he was laying on his stomach in the middle of the room and he had no socks on, there was an untouched plate of food about 3 feet away from him and sgt pikula ((a female drill sgt who was director of bootcamp)) and ms dorothy ((director over kitchen)) was banging on the walls of the iso bay and yelling at him saying "we're never gunna leave you alone,... you're never gunna get out of here... we're going to be with you for the rest of your life,... you're never going to go home... you're here forever..." in loud singsong voices... the kind they like to irritate uncooperative children with so they break down and cry, they like tears though when you cry you get punished, like i did when i was there and my cousin passed away. well, sure enough, their taunts came true, roberto really was there for the rest of his life and he never did get to leave

In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws.  But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
--Martin Luther King

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: jr staff barekman on August 10, 2005, 06:22:00 PM

no that was not related to tlc at all

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on August 11, 2005, 11:17:00 PM

6/20/03-"Cadet Barekman pissed his pants sir"

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on August 12, 2005, 06:03:00 AM

later that night...-Seargent John D. Ragle
"Aww Shit  :tup: "

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on August 12, 2005, 06:09:00 AM

*The next day...Barekman pisses his pants again*...
*Head of bootcamp, Drill Seargent Lollar*
*country hick accent*
"barekman, do you want a smoke session  :scared:
 :flame: "
*barekman*
 :cry2:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 17, 2005, 04:20:00 PM

You don't know shit I went there. It was hell and back it is just for parents who don't want to deal with thier kids anymore i do not take drugs never have and never will. there was a girl that had a asthma attack there and they wouldn't call the cops until she turned blue.
they excpect the wort from you and don't see when you are trying ane telling the truth
SOO SHUT UP!!!! :flame:

Title: 14 Year old Dies at THAYER LEARNING CENTER
Post by: Anonymous on November 19, 2005, 02:30:00 AM

when was the asma attack?  was it in 04...cuz i remember a girl that has that happen and her name was rood.