Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: ` on May 13, 2005, 08:08:00 PM
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i think that's the right word. if not, i will edit. but i feel like i learned how to cut people off. after all, that is what i did to my friends. i went without music and whatever else, i think it was on first phase that i looked in the mirror and decided that it was mine to suffer. my place or my role or whatever. then also, this might not even be asceticism, but i swear i have been so self-conscious that i hold my face in non-expression... not so much these days because i feel more what that feels like & consciously try to relax. not saying this governs my waking hours, but it is something that i notice when in public if i am feeling vulnerable.
and i know the rages started after Straight. i got in fights with my parents before Straight, but otherwise i don't think i was too impatient, you the kind of irrelevant rage at traffic and such.
anyways, i was just sitting here reading a cookbook, and i am thinking how like i don't even know what i want to eat sometimes, i hardly ever take the time to cook anything good. is that stupid? i guess it is all this depression or whatever. like i been living a certain miserable rageful, pent up way for a really really long time and i am not going back into that.
also just the feeling of freedom, liking what i like, this has spent long time being suppressed, and that was not just Straight, but maybe Straight broke my spirit so i was afraid to be. especially with my parents, who put me there.
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straight is not controlling your hunger.
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okayyy. thanks for the insight, cowboy.
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Ascetic, yes. I grew up in a home where cleanliness, decor and style were not priorities. Around age 12 or 13 I started to take charge of that. I painted and made nice and, fwiw, was just starting to take a little pride in my little creation.
All that was swept away. So I never reinvested. I am ascetic to this day. I don't think of it as a problem, though. Just that I don't invest much in anything that can be taken away.
Lighthouses are more helpful then churches.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
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it could be taken away, but what if it isn't, and you're some distant day a ripe old age, wishing you had painted the house and snuggled into your nest a little more? home improvement is a good thing. even when i lived out of my van, i spent money taking everything to the laundromat, washing all the blankets i was sharing with my dog. but yeah, this time around it has taken me a long time and a lot of reassurance that i am not on the verge of being homeless to start feeling like i maybe can settle in. [ This Message was edited by: fka on 2005-05-13 19:19 ]
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I know, I know, that's the sane view. And I have managed to plant some good fruit and flowers in the yard. But, as far as the house itself, I do my laundry too (or pay one of the kids to do it for me) But I can't bring myself to invest the thousands it would take to make the place the work of art that I had in mind, starting w/ my room, when I first tried it.
It's comfy this way.I believe that all important matters have to be settled here, not in the clouds somewhere after we kick off.
--Billy Joel, American musician
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i would love to see this work of art you speak of!
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I think what you're talking about is self-control (to the extreme)? I TOTALLY have that problem, like a disconnect between myself and, well myself. For me it manifests as anxiety and although it's much better than it has been at other times, I used to have panic attacks and feel some really insane things, like I was sliding down a tunnel into insanity, and if I didn't try really really hard, I would just black out and never know what happened to me again. That is from trying so hard to control myself I think. It becomes a spiral that spins around and around.
In straight I learned a level of self control that I think is really unnatural and cant' be too good for you. I could control my every thought, my every action, and everything I said. I still have residuals from this, feelings of not knowing just exactly what Im thinking or feeling, and not being sure I really want to.
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On 2005-05-13 20:20:00, fka wrote:
"i would love to see this work of art you speak of!"
It's all in my head now. It doesn't exist. But once upon a time, it was a little room on the corner of a little house w/ windows under the shade of many trees on one side and full on eastern light on the other. It overflowed w/ plants and sentimental objects artfully arranged and was the favorite hang out of several critter friends of mine.
Hands that help are far better then lips that pray.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
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On 2005-05-14 14:32:00, JMA wrote:
I think what you're talking about is self-control (to the extreme)?
How about total control of your own beliefs? Ever have a scary episode w/ that? I have.
Most people think they have a pretty good handle on the distinction between fantasy and belief; we believe what is compelling and just play at the fantasy stuff, right? No, not even close. For the most part, we believe whatever we have to believe in order to act right, get along in society and be more-or-less comfortable inside. "Corn Pone Opinions", as Mark Twain put it. You tell me where a feller gets his corn pone and I'll tell you what his opinions are.
So anyway, I was very much aware of skating the line on belief vs. pretense and very secretly quite proud of my ability. I could believe the shtick well enough to convince anybody w/o totally letting go of the fact that it was all an act.
So one day, years later, I'm out shopping w/ my family. We decide to split up to save a little time. As my then youngest was an infant, it had been awhile since I had had any time alone. And I didn't expect this opportunity, it was spur of the moment. So I'm walking through this store and decide to play at a fantasy. What if I really don't have a husband and kids at all. What if I'm really delusional, I just dreamt them up and they don't really exist. The scary part is that, after only a minute or two of this weird sort of musing, I wasn't at all sure which was true. I was about ready to break down crying by the time I found the crew coming down one of the aisles.
Whew!
Laws are like spider webs. If some poor weak creature comes up against them - it is caught. But the bigger one can break through and get away.
-- Solon; Greek philosopher - c.630-c.555 BC
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Now that sounds just like a panic attack. It's like a feeling of impending doom and being completely out of control. Feeling like you can't trust yourself. I've had those feelings many times, when it first hit me, it always had to do with me going insane. Then I would get them just because I was afraid of getting them. It's a really shitty feeling.
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I think the first time I ever had one, I was watching a TV show about Tourettes syndrome. I started to think about what a horrible, horrible thing it would be to have, and then I started to become scared that I wouldn't be able to keep myself from getting it if I started to act like that. That's what started it all, suddenly I didn't know if I could, and I started to think at any moment I would get 'it'. Sounds kind of ridiculous, I know. It's like living from the outside of yourself, and trying to reach in and adjust everything just so. And later I was very conscious of having a fear of being locked up in a mental hospital. Maybe that's part of what I was so afriad of.
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God I just realized that IS what I was so afraid of. For years I had all of these fears of insanity, and they all led back to the fear of me being locked up in a mental hospital for the rest of my life, and my being completely incapable of ever getting out because I would be too crazy. I've never really realized that before and the obvious connection to being locked up in straight. How could I not have seen this???
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Yeah, me too. I'm not the least bit afraid of insanity. Shit, insanity's fun! I think I'd be bored to death if I were sane by modern definitions.
But I wasn't talking about a panic attack or anxiety over anything remotely plausible. I just... well, I've always been a daydreamer. I entertain myself quite often by just making up some wild scenereo and thinking it through; "what if" kinda stuff.
I'm telling you that, for a couple of minutes some years ago, I couldn't convince myself that the dark fantasy wasn't real.
You're talking about anxiety over very real possibilities. That's not paranoia or any other dysfunction. That's prescience :exclaim:
In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people.
--James Madison, U.S. President
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;
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http://www.straightkids.com/index.html (http://www.straightkids.com/index.html)
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Anyone else feel like Straight made them ascetic?
?i think that's the right word. if not, i will edit?. No, no reason to edit your chosen word. At first glance my first thought was of the ?Ascetic? Hindu. These individuals take a vow of poverty, isolation and most often don?t even speak, but the reason they do this is for religious reasons, it is self imposed.
Not sure myself, if the word ?ascetic? was the proper word (even though I knew exactly what you meant) I went to the Merriam-Webster Online dictionary to find out and here is how that site defines ?Ascetic??
Etymology: Greek askEtikos, literally, laborious, from askEtEs one that exercises, hermit, from askein to work, exercise
1 : practicing strict self-denial as a measure of personal and especially spiritual discipline
2 : austere in appearance, manner, or attitude
synonym see SEVERE
Interesting synonym---SEVERE?.no doubt!
Although I personally do not practice ?strict self-denial as a measure of personal? or ?spiritual discipline?, I am all too familiar with the concept of hermitage.
Because most of my working life has been devoted to the mental health field, I was in a position to give of myself, on-demand---as situations would arise. Once I was off the clock, I morphed from a gregarious, caring individual to one that would not even engage in simple eye contact as I walked down the street, or thru a mall. And as time went along this practice increased and perfected itself.
I am no longer in the mental health field, and yet this pseudo-asceticism thing is well engrained into my daily life. For example; Saturday night, I attended a small gathering of my girlfriend?s co-workers. I knew about this gathering for almost a month. My girlfriend politely reminded me weekly as the time went on. Each time she would mention it I cringed. No clear thought ever really emerged, and by that I mean that I never came up with any firm reason for not going. Yet, internally, it was very clear?.I did not want to go.
Subtle albeit palpable fear was clearly evident. All morning long I felt panicked, I even had lower back pain along with a piercing pain right below the left shoulder blade. During the day, I ran scenarios thru my head. Much like Antigen?s ?What-If? scenarios she mentioned. According to my keen calculations---there was no way I would be comfortable, fit in, or be accepted by this group of people. That sense of impending doom that was mentioned earlier in the post was certainly beginning to manifest. I managed to keep that impending doom thing to myself and did my utmost not to let my girlfriend in on my dilemma, or at least the full gravity of it. Yet, I was extremely anxious and that was much more difficult to conceal from her.
This is not my first experience in this type of situation. I suspect it won?t be my last time either. And it is interesting to me how justified this behavior seems to me. I work (and keep to myself) come home, and art. I know my neighbors names because they introduced themselves to me, despite my best efforts to avoid them. We have never engaged in any socializing with our neighbors and have no plans to do so. One particular neighbor approached me about a job working with his father in-law. I got the job, and it took me over a week before I approached him and say a simple ?thank you? for the heads up on the job. It wasn?t that I didn?t have the opportunity earlier, I was simply afraid to approach him and express my appreciation. When I finally did cross the street and step in his yard to say ?thanks? I felt incredibly awkward?but I did manage to get the words out and I simply thanked him.
This idea of asceticism or hermitage seems so right, feels so comfortable. I once was called a troglodyte by a client when working in the Mental Health Field. At the time, I maintained my composure but scurried home to look the word up. Troglodyte=Cave Dweller. I remember thinking to myself?how appropriate!
Now, everything written so far describes my emotional reactions to people, social settings and simple courtesies. And as I mentioned, they seem perfectly justified and worth defending. Yet, there is an intellectual understanding that as a human being I need interaction with other people. You remember that old corny song from the program. ?No man is an Island??. Well, intellectually that makes a lot of sense. But in practice, I create my own island of imprisonment.
Having had periods of incarceration, other than Straight, I fully understand what it means to be ?free?. One might think I would celebrate this freedom enjoying other people and liberties that follow incarceration. But I think somewhere along the line I confused ?freedom? with ?security?. If I would have been asked if I preferred ?freedom? or ?security?, verbally I would have responded with ?freedom?, however, internally I would have sided with ?security?. I don?t like anything/anyone fucking with my ?security?! I despise anything that threatens my ?security? or nudges me from my comfort zone.
Can any of this be traced to Straight? In my personal, direct experience I believe I can answer that with a resounding, YES!
I don?t pretend to have any answers regarding this ?Ascetic? issue. However, I do have the experience. Sometimes I wish could be the gregarious creature that I know lies dormant within my being, but I don?t see that happening anytime in the near future for me. Of course that would mean I am truly free. But for now, and the foreseeable future I will simple settle for being secure and just do the best that I can.
Sometihng else that may sound corny, but has alot of truth to it...You are not alone in feeling the way you do.
Namaste
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My 2 cents...
I sit here trying to make sense of this thread even though it is so simplistically true. My attitue towards life per se.
I am stuck in life trying to determine what is real... what is reality. I try to make a connection between my humaness to my environment. Something happens.. and I react to it.. but I have no connection to it... it could easily be a dream. Every thought is usually proceeded by "Is this real.. is this really happening?"
I suffer from chronic "grass is greener" syndrome. I don't know if this has always been the case, but it was definately exacerbated by straight. After my disbelief and incredulity of being incarcerated.. after the hatred and anger receeded enough for me to think coherently.. after the despair and hoplessness jolted me into action, I decided that passive resitance was the way to go. I candy coated this betrayal of my thoughts with fantasies of things being different when I got "there": When I get T&R, things will be different.. when I can go home, Life will be better, when I get out of this hell-hole, I will be me again... and each escalation of environment resulted in the same disappointment. And so I have learned that to strive for something different is futile. Because its always the same. No matter where you run.. there you are! No matter how hard you try, nothing ever really changes. I will always be this collection of rebellious thoughts. I have to fight everything... that when I'm told this is the way it is... the way it has to be I say BULLSHIT!
Integrity is a problem.. because I don't have a belief system.. I struggle through every day trying to figure out what really matters.. only to take a stance on a belief to find tomarrow, or a week, month, year or hour later I have taken a 180 degree stance on what I was so firmly grounded in. So now I have learned that not only will nothing change, but that when something seems like it MAY never change, that when something becomes a source of security or at least a familiar waypoint in life, that it's all a lie.. and nothing can be trusted.. Thank you Straight. Fuck you very much.
I am a social hermit. Because to be social, you have to have something in common with your environment. And I simply don't. People place values on stability, sanity, and the almighty dollar. Status and station is what determines your worth in civilization. To a person that has no status or station civilization is worthless. I have no use for the political correct paradigm we live in. I'm sorry... It's not MY fault that a black persons ancestors were abused by mine.. I take no responsibility for ANY of it. I will treat anyone as they have treated me. But you know what? if you act like a nigger towards me.. I'm going to refer to you as one. I'm going to treat you like one. And I will have absolutely NO remorse about it. If you are a gay man... great.. act like it. You start pulling feminine "queen" behavior with me, I'll drop you like a bad habit.. I have no use for that crap. Be a fucking MAN if you have the Y chromesone.
So... near as I can tell... Life is nothing but a collection of fantasies... Moments in time. each as real as the next. What I experience in life, even if it doesn't make any sense at all, IS reality. This accounts for my ability to love something with my every fiber of being.. and despise it at the same time. My family. I would lay my life down for any of them individually or collectively without hesition. Some would point out the paradox that to die saving them would cause more harm than good. That my not being part of their lives anymore is a selfish thing. Some may even be right about that. But I cannot subscribe to the idea that my life is not my own. It is my choice when my time comes.. and if at that moment in time I decide that all my collective fantasies have been leading to this one moment... and it's only purpose has been to be there in that point of time to perpetuate this fantasy of family, whether I'm there or not to observe it, that is completely my perogative. Yet at the same time I can't help feeling that my family holds me back. That sometimes I despise the very notition that I need them.. and worse.. they need me. I'm not that important.
Perhaps I should be locked away.. perhaps I am completely fucking cracked. Perhaps I'm just sick. Perhaps I'm a figment of my own imagination. I like to keep that concept handy... I find that when I take myself too seriously I need that reminder that I am nothing in the grand scheme of things. The things I think are important actually aren't.. because nothing really matters. I made it all up anyway.
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Welcome fellow traveller! No you are not crazy but probably one of the few sanest left. Thank GOD true reality is not pinned to the almighty dollar. Those of the human race that think all that life is about is aquiring wealth and "things" are going to be extremely let down when this 'blink in corporal exsistence' is over and they return to spirit essence. I for one have always had intuition that I have exsisted before in a better realm/space and so living here in todays world does sort of suck. There must be a reason we're here though and once our tasks are deemed completed I have no doubt I,'We' will return back to where we really belong.
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many things said here
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bumparoo
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keeping it going
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bumpp