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Messages - Awake

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On a semi-related subject, I realized that I have a nightly ritual that I use to help me get to sleep that originated at CEDU.  These days when my mind is running and I can't sleep I imagine throwing myself off an impossibly high cliff and watching myself fall to the ground. I'll do it over and over imagining what happens in various ways. Sometimes I imagine myself inside my body, or viewing from an outside perspective. Sometimes I hit the ground and the scene turns blank, or maybe the ground will shatter like glass and I'll keep falling forever. (Don't come to any suicidal conclusions reader, it's just a way to quiet my mind)

Anyways, I remember starting this at CEDU imagining throwing myself off the emerson building down the backside. I never could sleep at CEDU so this was the only way I could shut all the bullshit (raps, etc.) out of my brain so I could sleep. Anyone else have some weird way they got to sleep at that place?

BTW Stina..... are you a vegetarian? Can't help but be curious considering the dream.

Quote from: "psy"
I think it's not so much "you aren't truthful" as it is: "you aren't real", and as such you "don't even know you are lying".  IMO, the point is for the most part to get you to question yourself and your own interpretation of reality, causality, identity (self concept), and past events.

Anybody else get called "in your head", or was that just a Benchmark thing?

Good point. It really did cause me to question myself and change my habits. I did alot of bitching about CEDU but eventually I got called out by enough people for "playing the victim" that I stopped complaining or talking about leaving or fighting the program for that matter.  I knew it would only get me more of the same.

Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "AuntieEm2"
Amazing to me how quickly the family begins (my family began) to adopt this language--what amounts to the debasement of a whole and complex human being.

And just through the use of words.  Amazing, isn't it, what loading the language can do.

Yes. The power was in the language. It becomes more and more apparent. It'd be nice to go back with the language to demeen their language.  "You're just playing games" "Look who's talkin. That's just loaded language, a thought stopping cliche" Of course this would be when the infamous "You're in your head." or "In your thinking" would come in to play. The ultimate thought stopper. Yet again THINKING = THE DEVIL.

Quote "These "defenses" work because they shred the person's credibility without actually having to mount a reasoned argument. "Playing games" and "projecting" really mean "you're not being truthful," and the idea is to dis the person without having to say or prove what is untruthful in what the person is saying." -quote

That's what I was trying to get at. if you just came out and said "you're not being truthful" you'd have to explain why. But it seemed like once someone said, "you're just playing a game" everyone just accepted it as the core answer to whatever it was that someone was being attacked for.

I guess it could be categorized as Thought Stopping Language, or a Thought Stopping Cliche'. I'm sure if I thought about it I'd remember a bunch of CEDU sayings that hindered thinking beyond them. In fact.....

The harder the truth to tell, the truer the friend that tells it.
To the degree you feel your sorrow is the degree you feel your joy.
You should be childlike, not childish.
The truth shall set you free.

umm.. there's definitely more ... just drawing a blank. But all these were tiresome cliche's used over and over and seemed quite effective at creating a mental block.

Open Free for All / Re: Question about dreams from the past
« on: July 29, 2008, 11:49:08 AM »
Nightmares and nightsweats are quite common in the fornits members. I've had the ever since I left CEDU. Almost every night I have to change clothes cuz I'm covered in sweat. It still hasn't gone away. Here's a recent thread on fd up dreams survivors had.

Ooooh! forgot about that one, "You're just projecting." another pretty common way to flip the coin from defender to attacker. Well, its not a defense, but it did work sometimes. I agree though. No logical defense worked. Only submission.
I think that's in part why raps were so .... intense. The only way to defend yourself was to attack someone else to move the attention to them.

For some reason I just remembered the oh so common cliché “you’re just playing a game…”.  It seemed that this phrase was used for just about any reason.  If someone joked around a lot, or acted weird, or even was cutting on themselves you could pretty much bet that in a rap they would be confronted by someone saying,” I think you’re just playing attention games.” Or maybe someone would complain a lot. They might hear something like,” I see you blaming your problems on other things and feeling sorry for yourself a lot. You’re just playing the victim.” As I recall it this phrase was used in just about every rap. 

What I don’t get though is how the hell it worked. It seemed to stop everyone in their tracks and disregard the persons issues. I don’t remember anyone saying, ”Hey guys, maybe this isn’t just a game. Maybe we should take it seriously.”  It seemed to be a popular tool used in raps.  For instance it was a good way to get the attention off yourself. “Do you really have issues with me? Or are you just playing games?”. Anyone else remember this? 

Ugh… It reminds me of how those raps progressed. Just an endless circle of Attacker, Defender.

All that happened in a dream? That is crazy.  I've had alot of crazy Cedu dreams recently, but for the most part either I was running away or they came into my house unexpectedly. Byond that not much detail besides waking up sweating and drenched.  I won't pretend I can interpret dreams, but ... I get it in some fd up way. Is there a more concise way to explain that experience? I can't think of one. 

The most shocking part of "waking up" happened for me once I realized I really had changed how I had lived my life after CEDU.  I hated Cedu but never denounced it. I'm sure that, for awhile, I still defended their philosophies. I actually remember telling my story to a couple of non-cedu friends .... just the way I was taught and left out no disclosures. Why I did not realize that was not socially appropriate I can only say is because that was Cedu. Whether telling OR hearing anothers story, it was a daily activity. Initially I thought that the people I had shallow friendships with were not really of value and could be disregareded. Eventually though, you realize NO ONE is open and honest and transparent... like at CEDU. B/C Cedu you were picked apart every day and everyone knew each others inner intimate details. If that wasn't enough social distortion to confuse me there was also the "look good" factor.

If I learned anything at Cedu it was to "play the game".  We all did, whether we knew it or not. Despite all the confusion of trying to understand how to fit in at Cedu I knew what to do in about a week. Sure, everyone sat alone during their first Last Light where the whole school all laid down and smooshed on command. But a week later I was smooshing too. For awhile I was just playin the game. When a school is entirely maintaned by the students you learn to follow the rules quick. Not just the rules though, the survival method necessary to get through daily life. Not only do you analyze your own behavior obsesively for things that could be thrown in your face in raps, but you analyze others that way too. We were encouraged to attack others behaviors. After Cedu that never left. The extreme analysis of myself and others, though I learned not to voice it.  Even after Cedu part of me was still "playin the game", learning how to find a niche within groups and then disconnecting abruplty once things started getting deep.

Years later I had already disconnected from any Cedu connections I had AND had begun to think that relationships were just bullshit in general. If my Cedu friendships weren't deep and real then I was just incapable of having friendships, I blamed myself. But eventually I just believed that was the way the world was. People were all just calous and indifferent and "playin the game" at the expense of others. Once I realized that this worldview was one I adopted as a result of CEDU.... that was when I really woke up. It wasn't just the time I spent there, but all the time since too.

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Re: How did they...
« on: July 18, 2008, 10:48:10 AM »
Quote from: "blownawaytheidahoway"
Thanks Awake for posting those items at the top of this thread, it will be handy for people to see.

Also, If you haven't read "SNAPPING" yet, I strongly urge you to read this book, it is the perfect bridge to understanding how Cascade and CEDU presented their PR campaign. Also, in my opinion, in conjunction with "Help at Any Cost" and "Cults in our Midst", "Snapping" is the perfect book for an outsider to look at and "get it".

I'll definitely put that on my reading list. BTW good to see you back BlownAway... was wonderin when you'd show up. I wasn't expecting the old Thinking = Devil thread to come back so its a little weird with 2. Sorry bout that.

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Re: How did they...
« on: July 10, 2008, 09:42:04 PM »
This should be here. The most comprehensive article on the history of where our school came from. Synanon. ... ustry.html

Public Sector Gulags / Re: Straight, Inc. in Texas prisons
« on: July 10, 2008, 12:16:57 AM »
Yeah, I posted this too on the CEDU thread. The crash erased me from Fornits altogether so I had to be born again. TX is scary. I think they're gonna be experimenting with these "reform" methods more and more. They just started a new DWI program that is rap style and described as "very intensive" and requires a year of attendance. I plan to keep my eye on it. That SAFPF story is disheartening to say the least. The beast is just entering new territory.

So I began to question this stuff even more. Specifically I believe CEDU can be categorized as a psychotherapy cult. The nature of a psychotherapy cult would be one that capitalizes on proven psychological facts regarding the way our brains operate. Well, the basic unit of thought is the word…. Right? What would thought be like without having been taught language? Isn’t language a program that we’ve learned that dictates our perception of the world and ourselves?
Before I get too deep here (and I’ll admit I don’t proclaim to KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt ANYTHING I’m saying, and welcome any other viewpoints) my point is to say that Cedu DID identify certain universal truths common amongst all people, but used them to implement insidious philosophies. I postulate that Cedu’s deception is not that “thinking” can’t be trusted. The REAL deception is “feeling” is the real you.

In the case of “Thinking vs. Feeling” as in the I and ME workshop (as well as the rest of Cedu  as an undercurrent in daily life there) I had to consider the prospect that thinking in fact COULD NOT be trusted. Perhaps our brains are “thinking machines” that urge us to respond in a “feeling” manner. Our brains create expectations out of life and those expectations are often not met OR exceeded, urging a positive or negative “feeling” response.

In conclusion, my opinion is that IF there is such a thing as conscious thought it is VERY rare, perhaps non-existent. But rather we ARE consciousness only inhabiting, experiencing, and completely at the mercy of this thing we call life. Consciousness independent of thought and feeling IS the real you….. just along for the ride.

On a different note as I recall, what we called “feeling” at Cedu (doing work, running your anger, sobbing, and even forced emotion) in the vast majority of cases was really a state of rage. A toxic, primal mix of emotions that came out all at once. In my case I believe any real “work” I did had to do with hating being at Cedu or hating my parents. But it was always accompanied by staff’s comments of “you’re feeling weak right now, aren’t you. Or. What’s really going on inside you? You’re forgetting your truth. What’s your little kid saying right now? Etc. etc.”  For me it seemed like it was for the intention of re-directing my feelings onto myself….. and it worked in some cases. What I remember of myself and others was entering an intense emotional state but confused as to where to direct the emotion…. Resulting in an almost thoughtless state of rage.

Just a thought.

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Re: How did they...
« on: July 04, 2008, 07:55:22 PM »
OK. I'm still ambivalent on Maslow, but feel there are holes in his theory. The only other theory I've found that counters Maslow comes from Manfred Max-Neef. I like it. It seems that it has the ability to fill some of the holes in Maslows theory. I'm not sold but I'll throw it out for conversations sake.

The main contribution that Max-Neef makes to the understanding of needs is the distinction made between needs and satisfiers. Human needs are seen as few, finite and classifiable (as distinct from the conventional notion that "wants" are infinite and insatiable). Not only this, they are constant through all human cultures and across historical time periods. What changes over time and between cultures is the way these needs are satisfied. It is important that human needs are understood as a system - i.e. they are interrelated and interactive. There is no hierarchy of needs (apart from the basic need for subsistence or survival) as postulated by Western psychologists such as Maslow, rather, simultaneity, complementarity and trade-offs are features of the process of needs satisfaction.

Max-Neef classifies the fundamental human needs as: subsistence, protection, affection, understanding, participation, recreation(in the sense of leisure, time to reflect, or idleness), creation, identity and freedom.

(Couldn't get the grid to copy onto here, see at)

***It does seem that the BELIEF others have in Maslow's theory is central to western society and it seems that various cults capitalize on it.***

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Re: How did they...
« on: July 03, 2008, 01:39:21 AM »
Very good my friend. I agree on the Donner Party issue..... it DOESN'T apply to everyone. Perfect example of yet another peice of information I took in and regurgitate without thinking. I'll definitely think more before I enguage this topic (truth?) with you again soon. I gather at this point it may be worth tackling from the complete other end of the spectrum. For it seems $apitali$m is an ideology that plays to a heirarchal system. Have you thought about that bfore? (OK this is a little weird. straight trip talk, but true nonetheless.) Well, the topic is broad it seems.

You can lead with all new lines if you believe in what you say
then life can be just as you make it.

believe the lie and it will all come true.

If you believe in every lie you're never free to walk away.
You should be free to go today.

Believe the lie and it will all come true.

-Umphrey's McGee-

(had to edit the lyrics... i screwed em up)

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Re: How did they...
« on: July 02, 2008, 09:49:03 PM »
So you've contemplated this stuff as well! So are you saying that this theory isn't right, or incomplete? Or that the human potential movement, Lifespring, Scientology etc. have taken advantage of that knowledge to manipulate people?  Are people just psychologically prone to believing in these particular pictures of reality?

 (In the last 3 mo. I've read "cults in our midst" and "Help at any cost" as well as searched every nook and cranny of the internet to find out whatever I could, so I'm on kind of an overload of info.... its a long story.)

It seems to ring true to me, at least the heirachal nature of the listed "needs". example the Donner Party converting to cannibalism when traveling through a snowstorm without food. And up to the SELF ESTEEM level where we feel we have a certain place among a group once the preceding NEED is met. Honestly, I can't speak for the SELF ACTUALIZATION level. hmmmm...... as I type I'm questioning that a little. Well.... Check out this site I've been perusing, the one posted on this thread. Its full of "bainwashing facts" and is pretty extensive. You might have an interesting take on it as a whole.

(Synanon, lifespring I know a bit about, but Scientology... Not really.)
How about Robert Liftons theories?

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