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Messages - Awake

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I don't follow. I was suggesting creating websites like mine on Benchmark, to counter the official version.

Very good idea. Already proven effective by your Benchmark site, at least by my testimony. What about some sort of basic interview/news teams comprised of fornits (or otherwise interested) peoples living in states near a particular facility? Through networking interested parties can ask for locals to inquire on a particular facility and report back based on their first hand inquiries, or failures in attempt to contact a facility if that is the result. Is that possible?

What if a larger `cult monitoring and networking` corporation could act as a binder for the already numerous small websites seeking to focus on a particular aspect of cults. (i.e. religious, TBS, etc etc). If such a network/corporate entity existed it could provide a large name to stand behind for all the divided smaller interests. Not that fornits doesn't do a good job at that already.... just suggesting perhaps there could be a broader unity.

Otherwise the best idea is a website for every facility. I think that would have the most effect w/ least effort.

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Re: The Rap
« on: August 29, 2008, 04:22:39 PM »
The sex aspect now coming into memory like an angry ghost! I don't know if you were writing from an RMA experience, because actually having sex at Cedu CA meant you weren't coming back, at least during the late 80s/early 90s. They didn't play lightly with that - it was so much of their control mechanism - the purgation of our hormones.

I absolutely remember with painful clarity of feeling - that sex was considered the dirtiest, most self-debasing activity you could permit yourself to do - that it came out of "thinking"; that it was not healthy or normal - that the impulse to normal, age-appropriate sexual experience was disgraceful and really quite sinful, and that it had to be shared publicly in the raps, and purged.
 There were four cases of the sex agreement being broken that I remember when I went to Cedu. 2 of those cases I remember in partcular. 1 of the 4 was sent to Ascent never to return and  the other 3 were put on full-times. Times must have changed a bit during the periods we attended b/c as I recall staff foamed at the mouth drooling over the opportunity to make a public example of those who broke the sex agreement. I'm surprised to hear you say if you broke the sex agreement "you were not coming back." (What do you mean by that? Did they go to Ascent and/or another program?) The Cedu I remember really took advantage of such a situation to make a point to everyone else. Not only do I remember how brutally those people got it in raps, but everyone seemed to get reprimanded. I particularly remember *a staff* yelling till she was red in the face at every guy in a rap addressing us as though guys were 100% responsible for initiating sex every time. Just because two people broke the agreement ALL the guys got battered. She blew up on us saying .."Don't even think of touching my girls." As well she would project her issues with abortions onto us, which was very uncomfortable and of course there was no defensive measure you could take. I, like most, never broke the sex agreement there yet I recall having to sit there and be talked to as though I did.

*I don't know what my deal is but I feel like if I mention a staff's name they will come to haunt me or something.*

On that note Liam, Mann is NOT Rudy Bentz.

" For many years I asked members of T-groups (group therapy) to engage in a "top secret" task in which they were asked to write, anonymously, on a slip of paper the one thing they would be most disinclined to share with the group. The secrets seem to be startlingly similar, with a couple of major themes predominating. The most common secret is a deep conviction of basic inadequacy- a feeling that one is basically incompetent, that one bluffs one's way through life. Next in frequency is a deep sense of interpersonal alienation- that, despite appearances, one really does not, or cannot, care for or love another person. The third most frequent category is some variety of sexual secret." - 'The Theory and Practice of Group Psychotherapy' by Irvin D. Yalom

Anyone remember getting asked, "What's the one thing you just can't tell anybody?"

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Re: The Rap
« on: August 25, 2008, 02:56:37 PM »

In the next room over an entirely different situation was taking place. “I bet you really watch what you eat dontcha. I know what it’s like to try and throw up hard foods like chips. No, you go for a piece of fruit or something soft so it comes up easier. Why are you sitting like that!?” “Like what?” “Like what?” Sandy mimicked Sheila’s pointless defense. “You’ve got your arms crossed across your chest. You’re not taking any of this seriously are you?” A girl, Tristen, got up and sat across from Sheila. “Ya. You are being really defensive. Don’t pretend you don’t have a problem cuz believe me I know. I used to make myself throw up so much that my finger wouldn’t work for me anymore. It got so bad I had to roll up newspapers to stick down my throat or I wouldn’t be able to throw up.” “How do you do it Sheila? Do you use your finger? Or do you just know how to make yourself do it without anything? That was how I did it. I was so good at it I didn’t even have to use a finger. I bet you do it that way too dontcha.” Sandy, now speaking, leaned forward and looked at Sheila who still sat with her arms crossed. “Heellloooo!!!!! Are you listening at all?!” Sheila made no response. “Y’know what, if you’re not willing to work on yourself we’re not going to waste our time with you! It’s your choice. You can sit at your table and waste time or you can choose to get something positive from it.” Tristen came in “Can I just say one last thing? For me this was a really tough issue to deal with and I’m still dealing with it and it makes me sad to watch you sit there and not confront your issues. I really want to be there to support you, but you aren’t even trying to work on yourself.” “Work on herself? She won’t even admit she HAS A PROBLEM!!! It’s time for you to get real!” “Can I say something?” “NO! She’s wasting our time! Let’s let some other people talk in here.”
   “Randy you wanted to go. Go.” Randy got up and took a place across from Eric. “Eric I think you should be watching who you spend your time with. It wasn’t very long ago that you broke the sex agreement and you and Alison are hangin out a lot.” “What are you talking about we’ve only been off bans for like two weeks!” “Yeah well you guys are still together a lot.” “Yea. When…” “I’m not done!” Randy wasn’t about to let Marla cut him off. “I mean nothing may be going on but it still looks that way and you should be paying attention to that.” “Yea it’s like I totally see you going right back to your shit. You and your friends are really clicky. Ever since you got off bans it’s like you went right back to your old image. Once you get around them you get really sarcastic and fast and…..” “There’s red flags going up all around you Eric! This is the same behavior that got you in trouble in the first place!” Sandy interjected. “Can you really not see what these people are saying?” “No I can see what they’re saying. I’ve just spent a lot of time with them cuz we were on bans, but I hear what they’re saying.” “I hope so.” Sandy sat back in her chair and held her gaze on Eric. “Consider this a warning Eric.”
   “Does someone else want to go? Devin. I haven’t heard from you in awhile how are you?” “Not that great I guess.” “Why not that great?” “I don’t know I’ve been getting frustrated lately. I was made a dormhead a couple weeks ago and I just don’t like it.” “What are you saying you can’t handle the responsibility?” “No it’s not that I just… I’m having a hard time I guess and I feel like I have enough to deal with….” Sandy took over. “So what’s really goin on? Your problems are much deeper than just being a dormhead aren’t they?” Devin leaned forward. “C’mon man I know you’ve been having a hard time lately.” This comment came from a friend, Luke. “We’ve talked before so I know we’ve got some of the same issues.” Devin didn’t hesitate. “Fuuuuck! FUUUUUUCK! FUUUUCK YOU YOU STUPID FUCKING PIECE OF SHIIIIT!! FUCK THIS BULLSHIT SCHOOL! FUCK BEING A FUCKING DORMHEAD! WHY DO I HAVE TO BE ON MANN’S FUCKING TEAM YOU FUCKING PRICK FUUUUUCK!” “That’s it! What’s really goin on Devin!” “I fucking HATE IT HERE! I’M FUCKING STUCK IN THIS STUPID HOLE! YOU STUPID FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT! YOU’LL NEVER HAVE A FUCKING GIRLFRIEND YOU UGLY FUCKING FUCK! FUUUUUUUCK! FUUUUUUUCK YOOOUUU!” “There’s more there Devin! C’mon get….” “FUUUUCK! FUUUUCK! I FUCKING HATE YOU! FUUUUCK!” “That’s right! Go for broke Devin!” “FUUUUCK YOU YOU STUPID FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT! I HATE YOU FOR SENDING ME HERE YOU STUPID FUCKS! FUUUUCK YOU GOD YOU FUCKING FUCK! I HATE MY PARENTS! I HATE MYSELF YOU FUCK! I CAN’T FUCKING STAND THIS FUCKING PLACE ANYMORE! FUUUUUUCK!”  -- “FUUUUUUCK! FUUUUCK YOU! GODAMNIT I FUCKING HATE YOU!” Just then Julie began screaming as well, her voice a high pitched screeching diminishing his lower toned voice. “FUUCK YOU GODAMNIT!” “That’s it Julie what are you saying to yourself right now!” “I’M FUCKING PATHETIC! I’M A FUCKING PATHETIC FREAK! I LOOK LIKE A FUCKING MAN! MY HANDS ARE FUCKING HUGE! LOOK AT MY FUCKING HUGE FUCKING HANDS! I’M A DISGUSTING FREAK! FUUUUUUCK YOOOUUUU! FUUUUCK!” At this point Sandy could barely be heard over the two of them. “You bet Julie! What’s it like to hold that judgement on yourself day after day!” “IT FUCKING SUUCKS! WHY THE FUCK DO YOU DO THIS! FUUUCK YOU YOU DIGUSTING FREAK!” “What’s it like to let those judgements control you! What’s it like to live your lie every day!!” Sandy barely finished the sentence before Julie let out a defening scream. “AAAAAAAAA!FUUUUUUUUCK! FUUUUUCK! I HATE YOU! FUUUUUCK!” Devin’s screams began to subside and Julie was fairly close behind. “Fuck! Fu-hu-huuuck!” “Yeah.” Sandy said to Julie. “It’s hard to hold those judgements against you all the time isn’t it?” “Yes! FuUUCK!” “What’s your truth Julie?” Julie only responded by crying harder. “You’re thinking about it right now Julie, what is it?” Julie began crying hard. “Innoce-e-ent.” “Yeah. Innocent. You are innocent. How does your truth feel?” “It f-feels goo-hood.” “Yeah. It feels good doesn’t it? Why don’t you let that in more? You know your truth yet you choose to ignore it. How about you Devin? What’s your truth?” “I’m Honest.” Devin had recouperated somewhat. “Yeah. Honest. Just feel that feeling. What about you Sheila What’s your truth?!” Sheila was still sitting in the same position…her arms crossed her chest. She said nothing. “You can’t even say it can you? Are you so deep in your lie you can’t even say your truth outloud?” Sheila made a sour face at that and shook her head slightly. “It’s beautiful.” “Yeah….beautiful. What’s so hard about that. Is that hard to hear? That you’re beautiful?” Sheila bent foreward and screamed at the top of her lungs. “FUUUUCK YOU YOU FUCKING BITCH! YOU STUPID FUCKING BITCH I FUCKING HAAATE YOOOUUUU!” “That’s exactly right isn’t it Sheila. What have you been holding back on this whole time?!” “I FUCKING HATE YOU YOU PIECE OF FUCKING SHIT! YOU FUCKING BITCH!”  “Why is it so hard to hear that you’re beautiful? It must feel pretty bad if you can’t even listen to your truth! Or are living your lie?!” “FUUUCK YOU YOU STUPID BITCH!” Sheila continued on her tyrade. “I FUCKING HATE YOU YOU YOU FUCKING BITCH!.”   “Your truth is so far away from you right now. How far away from beautiful are you right now Sheila?!”  “FUUUUUUCK YOOOOU! FUUUUU-HUUU-HUUUUCK! YOU STUPID SLUT! YOU GODDAMN BITCH!” Sandy withheld any comments for a minute while Sheila continued screaming in a rage. “How long were you going to hold onto that? How long were you planning on waiting before you showed us how you really feel?” “FUCK YOU YOU MOTHERFUCKING SLUT! FUUUUUUUCK!” “What are you feeling right now Sheila?” “I’M FUCKING PISSED OFF! GODAMN I’M SOOO FUUUUCKIING PIIISSED!” “Of course your pissed off. There’s a lot for you to be pissed off about. What are you pissed at?” “GODAMN FUUUUCK! I’M PISSED AT FUCKING EVERYTHING!” “Like what?” “I’M PISSED AT FUCKING DISHES, I’M PISSED AT MY TABLE, I’M PISSED I HAVE TO GO INTO EVERY FUCKING RAP AND TALK ABOUT THIS EVERY FUCKING TIME! FUUUUCK!” Sandy had become quite calm as she spoke to Sheila. “Who are you really pissed at then Sheila?” Sheila grabbed the hair on top of her head. “FUUUUUUCK! GODAMN FUUUUCKING FUUUUCK!” “C’mon Sheila! You know the answer to this. Who are you really pissed at! Who’s making themself throw up in the bathroom?! Who is it Sheila?!”  “FUUUCK I’M PISSED AT MY FUCKING SELF! FUUUCK YOU YOU FUCKING SLUT! YOU FUCKING BITCH!” “Yea. You’re pissed at yourself. What is it like to be so angry with yourself?” Sheila finally began to cry, her rage having wiped out her energy. She bawled so deeply she could not speak. “It must be hard to be that mad at yourself. Y’know you ARE beautiful you just choose to cover it up. Can you say that about yourself? Can you say I am beautiful?” Sheila  cried harder and pressed her palms over her eyes while facing the floor. “fu-huUCK YOU!” “I am beautiful. You can do it Sheila……. I am beautiful.”  “I a-am beautifu-ul.” Sheila continued crying. “You better believe it! Of course you are.” The room was quiet and Sheila sat doubled over her lap still weeping. “You just stay in that place for awhile ok? Stay with beautiful.” “Can I say something?” “Sure, go ahead Luke.” “Umm Devin. I have a lot of the same judgements as you and I just want to say I hope you know you can come talk to me any time man.” “Thanks man. I will.”
   “Ok who’s next.” The room was silent. “C’mon I know there’s  people that have other people to talk to in here.” Calvin and Brad both raised their hands then quickly pointed at one another as if to say ‘It’s ok you go ahead’.  “Pick someone already! Brad!Go!” Brad breathed a sigh as he got up to switch his seat. “Ok this isn’t like a huge deal but Thomas you were like barely working on dinner dishes last night. We asked to get checked off but your section was never complete. I had to help you finish your job so we could go. So I’m just saying it’s cool but next time hopefully you can work a little harder.” Next to Brad Ellie joined in. “I’ve been on dishes with you the last three nights and you are ALWAYS slacking off. When you sweep and mop you don’t even get all the way under the tables and theres always food left underneath.” “Thomas! Jeez are you kidding me!” Sandy gave Thomas a stern look. “You have been on dishes SO many times I couldn’t even count. Does someone really need to show you how to do your job again?” “No I know how to I just missed some stuff.” Ellie was quick to comment. “That is total bullshit! You are totally cutting corners on dishes all the time!” “Whaaat are you serious?” “What do you mean am I serious! We were seriously there at least a half hour more because of you.” “I agree with Ellie.” Brad again chimed in. “I don’t know about you but I’d rather spend my time in the house. I really don’t see why you’d do a half assed job when you could just do it right and be done.” Sandy rolled her eyes. “How many times are we gonna go through this Thomas? I’m serious how many times do you have to hear the same feedback over and over and over? I’m getting really tired of hearing this every time I’m in a rap with you. Can you just get it together please so I don’t have to hear this anymore?” “Yes” “Yes I will work harder on dishes!?” “Yes I will work harder on dishes.” “Thank you. I assume you’re on dishes tonight?” “Yes.” “Good.”
   “Calvin you wanted to go next?” “Yeah Ellie. I heard you and Mandi popping off while you were carrying the trash to the dumpster on dishes last night.” “Yea. I catch you guys popping off in the house too.” Ellie squinted her eyes and looked at Marla. “When did I ever pop off in the house?” “Well your not totally popping off but you totally cut corners. I hear you guys humming…..” “Whatever Marla! You are the biggest look good ever! You’re always looking for an excuse to indict someone!” Calvin then got up and sat next to Ellie. “To tell you the truth this is pissing me off too. You’re always following someone else’s indictment. Why aren’t you ever the first to indict somebody yet you always have something to say.” “I really don’t understand how that makes me a look good.” Julie got up and sat across from Marla. “Please. You know you’re a look good. You pull people up for the lamest shit. You even tell the guys to tuck their shirts in more if their just barely hanging over their belts. I just have a hard time believing anything you say because there’s no way you really have a problem with that stuff. You’re just trying to look good…….
   An hour and fifteen minutes left to go and yet another rap, in the building just up from the main house, was taking place. “Ok guys there’s something we really need to get to today and that is Stephen. You guys know he’s been on a full time for the last week aaaand he’s there because he decided it was ok to go through the I want to live dirty aaaaand …. Well he wants to share something with you. Why don’t you go ahead Stephen.” Jessie nodded at Stephen who breathed in a deep breath. Before he could speak five members of his peer group got up to sit across from him. “Ok well you know why I’m on my full-time and….” “I don’t think everyone here has heard why you’re on your full-time. Can you tell them please?”  Stephen again took in a deep breath and rolled his eyes back. “Ok. Before the I Want to Live me and Carol broke the sex agreement and that’s why I’m on my table. But I’ve been working on some really hard stuff for me that I….” “Actually I never really heard about this yet so can you explain what happened a little more?” Stephen didn’t respond to Ryan right away. He hung his head for a moment. “Ok. Thirteen days ago on Sunday after dinner me and Carol went into the woods and had sex. That’s pretty much it.” “That’s about it? Did you just lie down in the dirt to do it?” Jessie commented, “There’s more to this story lets have it.” “Alright um… I had a jacket and so did Carol and we used them to lie on.” “Actually can you just start from the beginning? Like when did you decide to do this?” Stephen closed his eyes for a moment in lieu of Ryan’s question. “Ok probably a week before that out in front of the house I told her I liked her and she said she liked me too. For the next week we were kind of flirting but we really didn’t plan anything we just kind of did it. And.. I don’t know that’s pretty much everything that happened.” Ryan sat back in his chair. “Ok I just haven’t heard yet…  so….” The room was silent for an awkward moment while Stephen stared tensely at the floor. “But that’s not all you have to tell these guys is it?” Stephen kept staring but knew he couldn’t put off Jessie’s question much longer. His eyes began to glaze over. “W-well you guys know why I’m on my table now and since then I’ve been working on some tough issues aand its not something you guys know about me.” Stephen leaned his elbows on his knees and tears dripped from his eyes. “Go ahead Stephen. Tell them what you told me.” Stephen was holding back tears mustering the strength to answer Jessie. “So when I was younger …in like fifth grade…..” Stephen hung his head back down and sniffled in a noseful of snot. “You know you can tell us anything. We just went through the I Want to live together. Whatever you have to say isn’t going to change what we think of you.” “Yeah. Seriously. You know how much we’ve already been through together.” Nancy followed Aaron’s statement along with a few others seeking to console him and coax his issues to surface. “So w-when I was in fifth grade me and my friend would w-watch my older sister take showers. Fffffuck…. We did it like five times. There wasn’t a lock on the b-bathroom door. She – fuck-hhhh- she caught us once and I don’t know….. it’s …. I’m not proud of it.” After a long uncomfortable silence Nancy said, “Well I’m glad your being honest and telling us about this. I’m disappointed that you went through the I want to live dirty cuz that really meant a lot to me, but I’m glad to see you’re working on your table.” Clark quickly chimed in. “Well I’m glad um y’know that you’re finally working on yourself and I think it’s good that you’re being honest with us about this, but um I just wish you would have respected all of us in your peer group enough to come out with this in the I want to live, y’know… I mean…..” “I gotta say I feel the same way I mean we were partners in there. I said a lot of things that were hard for me too and to know you could go through it without coming out with this stuff? I just feel like its hard to trust you.” Clark again claimed a place to speak after Will. “Can I ask you a question? Honestly? Why didn’t you come out with this in the I want to live? I’m just askin cuz it seems to me that would be when you would do that don’t you think?” There was a brief silence before Jessie spoke again.  “He makes a good point don’t you think Stephen? Wasn’t the I want to live the time to tell this to these guys? Why didn’t this come out then?” Stephen began crying into his palms and sucked in the snot hanging from his nose. “I DON’T FUCKING KNOW OK! I FUCKED UP! IT’S NOT LIKE THE I WANT TO LIVE DIDN’T MEAN ANYTHING!” “How could it mean anything if you go through dirty! How could you get anything from it if you won’t open up and get honest about yourself!” After Nancy said this Stephen reached down and grabbed his calves. “FUUUUUCK! FUUUUUCK! FUUUU-HUUUUCK YOOO-HOOOUU!” “That’s it. What are you feeling like Stephen.” Jessie’s voice was stern but quiet. “I’M FUCKING SICK OF MYSELF! I FEEL SO FUCKING DISGUSTING!” “Why disgusting Stephen.” “WHY THE FUCK DO YOU FUCKING THINK YOU FUCK! I WATCHED MY FUCKING SISTER TAKE A FUCKING SHOWER! FUUUCK! FUUUUCK YOOO-HOOOHOOOOU!” “What else are you feeling?” “FUUUUCK!FUUUUUCK!” “C’mon Stephen what do you call yourself for doing that!” “FUUUUCK YOOUU YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE PIECE OF SHIT! FUUUUUCK!” “C’mon Stephen what are you calling yourself right now! What do you think the people around you are saying right now!” “FUUUUUUUUCK! FUUUU-HUUUU-HUUUUCK!” “What is it Stephen?! What’s the word in your head right now!!”  “YOU SICK FUCKING FREAK!! I FUCKING HATE YOU YOU SICK FFFUUUUUUCK!” “What does sick fuck feel like! C’mon Stephen you’re right there!” “IT FUUUCKING SUUUCKS! I’M A SIICK FUUCKING FREAK! FUUU-HUUU-HUUUUCK! FUUUUCK YOOOUUU! FUUUUUUUUCK! FUUUUU-HUUUU-HUUUUCKING! GODAMN YOU YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE PIECE OF SHIIIIIT! FUUUUUUUUUCK!” “Feels pretty bad doesn’t it?” “FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCKK! UUHUU… FFUUUUUUUCCKKHHHUU-HUU….HHFFUCK!” Stephen could hardly get a breath through his screams. Snot and saliva were streaming from his nose and mouth. Someone next to him pulled a few Kleenex out of the box and threw them on the floor beneath his face. “FUUUUUUCK YOU! FUUUUUUCK! UHHHUUuhhhuu….FHUUHUhuhuck!” Someone handed Stephen some tissues which he took and mopped his face with. He continued crying. “It’s not easy facing the hard truth.” For awhile the group was silent as they watched Stephen empty out the last of his pain, rage and sorrow. “Thanks for sharing. You really opened up, you should feel good about that. And I’m sure your peer group is glad you shared with them too.” “Yea Stephen.” “Thanks Stephen”. A few people chimed in as Jessie spoke.
   “Ok guys. We’ve got some time left. Let’s get to whatever else we need to get to. Whoever’s ready just go.” Isaac got up and sat across from George. “Alright George I seriously don’t want to be rude but you kinda smell. Like I really don’t want to bring it up but… I don’t know you just really need to use more deodorant or something. I seriously… I’m not trying to embarrass you but it’s true. That’s it.” George lifted his hands up just higher than his head. “Ok man. I’ll wear more deodorant I guess.” “Ummm. I hate to say it but you do kind of stink.” Sandra joined Isaac. “I pass by you sometimes and it’s like serious b.o. and your hair is like super greasy. I’m sorry for saying that but it just… is kinda gross.” George looked away. “Gimme a fucking break….” Jamie then addressed Marcus. “You’re in George’s dorm aren’t you? Do you notice anything wrong with George’s hygene?” “Heeeeeeshhhh….yaaaa… I do sometimes.” “So why aren’t you saying anything?” “I mean  I can I…” “Get a voice!” Marcus got up and sat across from George. “George you should listen to what they’re saying. Your hygene could be better and you don’t put much effort into your appearance. That’s just what I think ok?” “Ok man whatever. I’ll fucking clean myself. It’s fine really you’ve made your point I get it. Can we just please move on?” Jessie waited a moment and looked around to see if anybody had anything to add.
   “Ok. Let’s move on.” “I have something to say to somebody.” Josh got up and switched seats. “This is to Martin. I heard you telling your story to Michael yesterday and I know pot is part of your story but you guys were TOTALLY war storying together. You were sayin like how you used to get the dankest pot and he was too. I mean you were really sounding like you guys were in your shit.” “Were you talking about it like that Martin?” Martin tensed up as he tried to answer Jessie. “Welllllll….maybe a little bit but really….” “Don’t candy coat it. Were you talking about it like Josh is saying you did?” Martin took a deep breath. “Yeah we were.” Jessie sat forward leaning his elbows on his knees and shook his head. “Uh- uh. Mm-mm nope. That’s not acceptable. You know your not supposed to do that. Not ok.” Jessie was still looking Martin shaking his head. “I see you as being really in your shit right now. Your mind’s in the gutter. Not ok.” “I don’t really think I’m in my shit. I know I shouldn’t have done that but it was just a mistake kind of.” “No I don’t see that. You’re in your old image, you’re glorifying your drug experiences…. Uh-uh….. that’s totally unacceptable. After this rap come and see me so we can talk about this ok? Let’s move on.”
   “C’mon guys. Anyone else before we wrap this up?” Jessie looked around the room until his eyes landed on the boy next to him, Dean, who he stared at with a smirk on his face. Deans eyes widened. Jessie lightly elbowed Dean a couple times. “Hey.” “Hey” “Howr you doin Dean? How have you been since the I want to live?” “I’ve been pretty good.” “Yeah? Have you been holding onto some of that stuff?” “Yeah I mean I find myself struggling with it but I still feel like I got a lot from it soo yeah.” “How bout the rest of you guys. You still paying attention to those tools?” “<yes>(yeah) [me too ya.]” Several voices came in response. Jessie lead the final stretch of the rap by going around the room one by one giving everyone a chance to say something before letting them go.
   Back in the house Mann was finishing up his rap too. “Yknow some people did some really great work in here today…. Carol.  How’r you feeling right now?” “I’m feeling Ok I guess.” “You really were listening to your little kid today. What’s her name?” Carol cracked a small smile. “I really hate you.” “Oh c’mon what’s your little girls name just say it.” Carol smiled and put her hand over her mouth. “Care Bear.” Mann just looked at her and smiled. “I’m glad you decided to let her come out today.” Mann continued to stare at her while she kept her hand over her mouth. “I’m not supposed to smile.” Mann chuckled a little when she said this. “Yknow what. For the last few minutes before this rap is over can we get a smoosh pile here on the floor. C’mon everybody down, you too Carol.” “Does that mean I can be off bans from….” “Yeeesss only till the rap is over.” Carol ran over to smoosh with her friends as did everyone in a happy pile for the next few minutes. Raps were over for today…….

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Re: The Rap
« on: August 23, 2008, 04:35:08 PM »
Thanks. I'm glad you like it. Should I try and finish it? I must say I felt that I had to keep the content somewhat restrained because in general there are more personal things that get attention in raps. It's a little easier to produce a hypothetical rap situation like I did here when its about the day to day bullshit, but when it comes to the disclosures or really touchy personal issues that were cast out publicly it's pretty hard to make up situations that would do as much justice as what really happened. The real story is stranger than fiction so to speak and I guess I wouldn't want to sound like I'm reffering to a particular person. Does anyone think I should be concerned about posting some extreme situation that may bear striking resemblance to a specific person(s)? I agree it doesn't capture completely the extremes a rap can go to, but that's my quanadry with going further with it. Well I'll see if I can't get around it somehow.

BTW I was a Cedu RS mid 90's and Mann is probably who you think it is.

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Re: The Rap
« on: August 19, 2008, 02:50:57 PM »
That captures the feeling I remember having before I blew spittle all over the floor. (Did they ever steam clean those carpets?) That internal arguement of should I or shoul I not. Knowing sooner or later you have to play the part. It might be the next minute or maybe the next rap. Watching people scream in a frenzy. I think that fearful anticipation of waiting for the attention to be on you was many times the straw that broke the camels' back. Rap after rap having that feeling that you won't get out of it next time. That itself seemed to be enough to lose it and start doing "real work".  Fake work too though, hell eventually you develop that instinct that lets you know your luck has run out and the only option is to force yourself to yell till your red in the face. Otherwise you'd only get butchered before you had to do it anyways. Even when faking it though it was pretty easy to "get in touch with my anger".  There was alot that I was pissed about there so all you really had to do was think of all the bullshit you were going through and yell fuck you over and over. In a weird way it was kind of a paradox. Sometimes you were doing work cuz you had to do work and you hated having to do work, so you had genuine anger just because you were doing work at that moment. The very act of doing work made me mad that I had to do it so I did more work about how pissed I was at doing work. It's like an audio feedback cycle. Hold a microphone up to a speaker its connected too and make a tiny noise. The noise is played back out of the speaker and into the microphone again only louder and louder as the speaker amplifies the sound each time the sound cycles through the speaker and microphone.

It was bad enough watching 3 ft strings of snot hanging off the face of someone doing work.

ahahahahah. i know right. especially when you're in the midst of it and then look down and realize that, this time, it's you. jesus.

....I know I did it..... but I still don't believe it.....

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Re: The Rap
« on: August 16, 2008, 01:41:45 PM »
It's kind of a sad testament really, that I could write this over a decade later. This stuff's not even based on any particular memories, it's just sort of a reflection on the mechanics of how a rap moved around. hell I didn't really have to think to write it, it wrote itself and could've probably kept going forever if I let it. Well all in all it represented an ordinary rap I thought, but anything could happen from where it ended. There were worse raps where damn near everyone was doing work at once or some poor kid comes out with some terrible disclosure because they couldn't handle their full-time only to be attacked for not coming out with it in the last propheet. I think some of my worst memories are the ones where someone is just getting obviously brutalized and degraded and I just remember sitting there doing nothing, like it wouldn't even cross my mind that it was wrong. So good thing I ended it there I guess.

"How can 'unrap' myself" Well said. Writing this was like riding a bike. If bikes mind-raped you people would really wish they could forget how to ride one.

"...What's freaking me out is that shit is seared into my subconscious." Yes. It's kind of like reading. Now that you know how to do it you can't help but see words instead of a mess of letters. Only this shit is just wasting brainpower. A highly refined understanding of bullshit.

"Bitch, bitch, bitch...." Yes yes yes....

I saw this one awhile ago and thought the same thing. At first I thought that's the weirdest thing I could imagine. Then I thought ... oh yeah that's pretty much the same thing we did. I guess I'm glad we didn't learn to vomit out our emotions or judgements though. It was bad enough watching 3 ft strings of snot hanging off the face of someone doing work. I can only imagine..... "I need to talk.  I'm feeling pretty bad and I.... <rrrrraaaaaallllpphhh>." It is pretty amazing that somehow the process of going through a religious exorcism was mirrored at Cedu only with different words to make it look like group psychotherapy.

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / The Rap
« on: August 14, 2008, 09:07:27 PM »

The students filed in the room’s door and chose a seat among the circle of chairs. The mostly silent group sat with only a few murmers of conversation. They waited for Mann, one of the staff teamleaders, to join them and begin. The students sat in uncomfortable anticipation for the next minute or so before he entered and took the last seat. Mann looked around briefly and an overly friendly smile grew on his face. “Howz everybody doing.” His greeting was met with a less than enthusiastic response from the rest of the room. “Ok. Who wants to start.” Before the phrase exited his lips three hands shot up simultaneously, but just one voice got in before anyone else’s. “I need to talk”. Mann gave a nod to Michael who immediately got up and switched places with a girl, Michelle, on the opposite side of the circle. Upon sitting directly across from Dan he breathed a sigh. ”Ok Dan, you gotta stop breaking bans with me. You were breakin bans on dishes last night and in the dorm. I wanna talk with you but we’ll never get off bans if you keep doin this.” “When were you breakin bans in the dorm?” Mann injected this comment. “Well, he knocked my toothbrush off the…” “Don’t address me address him!” Mann cut off Michael in mid-sentence. Michael breathed another deep sigh and looked at Dan. “Last night you knocked my toothbrush off the sink and you kept handing it to me even though you knew we were on bans. I know you’re kind of new and we were kind of jokin around for a little bit, but I took my toothbrush and you still were breaking bans after I told you to stop. And you broke bans with me on dishes last night. I mean aren’t you sick of doing dishes? Just stop breaking bans ok?”  “Why’re you breakin bans Dan!?” Dan rolled his eyes in an ‘are you serious’ kind of way. “What! I dropped his toothbrush and gave it to him!” “Oh Cmon!... your full of shit! What do you have to say to him Michael?” Taking Mann’s cue Michael began, “Alright all I’m sayin is you KNOW you’re breakin bans and I’m sick of dishes so stop breakin bans with me.” “Who’s your dormhead? Kevin right? Kevin what’s going on in your dorm? Where are you in this?” “I told them to stop breaking bans!” As Kevin made this statement another student, Bryan, got up and switched seats so he sat opposite of Kevin. “Yeah, that’s bullshit Kevin. I see you letting them break bans all the time. Every time I do laundry I see them breaking bans. Plus you guys ALL take longer than five minutes in the shower. My dorm is tight and I think all you guys are slackers. If someones late to house around the pit it’s usually from your room.” Mann’s voice entered. “Is that true Kevin?” “No! I’m always callin them on their shit.” “C’mon man, you know you let them get away with shit.” Bryan said blandly. “Dude that’s bullshit!” Kevin barely had time to yell this out before Mann interjected. “NO YOU’RE BULLSHIT! Tell you what! All three of you are on dishes tonight and Kevin you and I will talk after this is over! We’re movin on! Who else!?”
   Carol raised her hand. “Can I go.” “Ok what’s goin on with you?” Mann said this in a caring voice that changed almost instantly from the harsh one he’d just directed at Kevin. Carol immediately got up and exchanged her seat. Carol now sat across from an older student, Nicole. “So Nicole, I just wanted to say I was hoping you’d come sit with me on my table. You’re one of the only people allowed to sit with me that I really want to talk to and I’m bummed you haven’t come to see me lately.” Nicole smiled back. “I’m sorry. I miss seeing you around the house too. I promise I’ll come sit with you soon.” “What else is goin on Carol?” Mann’s inquisition pinned Carols’ mind. “Well, I guess I’m feeling pretty lonely. It’s been almost four weeks on my fulltime and I really miss talking to some of my friends.” “Yeah, you bet. What else is goin on?” “I don’t know I’m just having a hard time I guess. I’m sick of doing writing assignments and I haven’t been off bans from anyone in a long time.” “You bet! What does that feel like?” “I don’t know. I’m sad and pissed off that I have to sit there all day!” Mann then came in with his familiar dialect. “Show me what that feels like. What’s your little kid saying right now?” Carol was stunned by the question. “CMON! WHAT’S IT FEEL LIKE CAROL!” Carol only began to cry but held back. “Yknow what I see Carol? Someone whose just trying to hold it together…. day after day. When are you finally let yourself feel what’s going on?” Carol bent forward and put her face in her palms. For the moment the room was silent. “It’s OK Carol. It’s right there. Just give into it. What’s it feel like to be you right now?” “I FEEL LIKE SHIT!” “Yeah. That’s it right there. How bad does it feel?” Carol took her hands from her face and clasped her knees. “IT FUCKING SUCKS! I FUCKING HATE THIS SHIT! I WANT TO TALK TO MY FRIENDS! I’M SICK OF THIS FUCKING FULL-TIME! FUUUUCK!” “That’s right! What else is going on in there?” Carol hung her head between her legs sobbing and between each breath she screamed “FUCK! FUUUUCK!” “There’s a lot going on inside you right now isn’t there? How hard is it for you to know your actions got you here?” Tears began dripping off her cheeks onto the floor as she listened to Mann. “C’mon what’s your little kid want to say right now? What’s She telling you?” At this point Carol exploded. “FUUUCK YOOOUU! WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS FUCKING UP! YOU STUPID PIECE OF SHIT! FUUCK YOOUU! FUUUCK! FUUUCK!” As she continued screaming Mann softly encouraged her. “You bet. That’s it Carol. That’s the feeling right there.” Slowly Carol began to run out of energy and stopped screaming. She breathed deeply and continued crying. “It’s been a long time since you listened to that voice hasn’t it? Tell me more about what you’re feeling?” “I’m feeling sa-a-ad.” And her bawling deepened. “Yeah…. What about alone? Are you feeling lonely?” “Y-y-yesss” “Yeah… that’s a lot to carry around isn’t it?” Carol only followed Mann’s comment with another wave of deep sobbing.  “I bet your feeling hopeless also. Is hopeless there right now?” “H-hyessss! I feel fuckiNG HOPELEEEESSSS!” She barely had the energy or breath to yell out this final time and slumped back into her exhausted body. She continued to cry. “ I want you to just sit with that feeling for awhile. OK? Let’s move on.”
   “Who else needs to talk today?” Mann scanned the room and fixed his eyes on Tim who froze in his stare. “Tim didn’t you have someone you needed to talk to in here?” Without responding he got up and exchanged his seat. Looking at Tony he said, “OK, I just think you’ve been spending a lot of time alone lately. I always see you by yourself reading a book instead of socializing. I just think you could spend a little more time with other people that’s all.” “Mmmm OK” Tony said. “What do you mean mmmm ok?! It sounds like you don’t agree with what he said.” Tony then responded to Mann,” I just don’t think I’ve been isolating. If there’s free time I don’t see why I can’t read for a little while.” Just then Michelle got up and sat across from Tony. “I see you reading all the time too. I don’t think you’re being honest. You know you’ve been isolating lately.” Tony didn’t argue back but just folded his arms in frustration. “What’s the problem Tony?! Why won’t you hear what they’re telling you?” Tony knew he had to respond to Mann. “Fine! I won’t read as much. I’ll spend more time with people. OK.” “Nope that’s not good enough. Who’s your big brother?” Tony rolled his eyes. “Chris”. “Why hasn’t Chris been hanging out with you?” “He has been just not all the time.” “Ok Tony, as of now you’re on bans from books and I want to see you and Chris right afterwards, got it? Y’know there’s all these people around you. You need to stop shutting everybody out. Ok who else do we need to get to today?”
   “You! New guy!” Mann’s smiling face looked over toward the newest member, Steve, who’d only been there a few days.  He froze a moment. “Me?” “Yeah you! What do you think of all this? How many raps is this for you?” “Two.” “So what do you think so far?” Steve was at a loss for words but he managed to get out, “It’s kind of weird. I don’t know.”  Mann laughed. “That’s ok we get that here. It might seem weird to you now, but this is a place where we can work out our issues in a safe way. Some people have some anger they need to deal with and raps are the appropriate place to deal with that, not out there.  So how have you been since arriving here?” “Ummmmm. I wouldn’t say I’m great.” “Well thats ok. You don’t have to feel great about being here.” Steve didn’t say anything, just sat uncomfortably in the gaze of Mann who smiled in satisfaction. He continued to stare down Steve for a few moments seeming to take pleasure in watching him squirm simply for being put on the spot. “Ok I’ll leave you alone for now.” Mann said this jokingly.
   “Let’s see. Oh! I know who I need to talk to. Where’s Jeff..there he is. Jeff! What’s the deal with your personal area?” Jeff shrugged his shoulders. “Don’t pretend you don’t know what I’m talking about. It’s completely empty except for that calendar and I might as well start with that. Why is the only thing in your personal area a calendar marked with X’s? You’re just counting the days ‘till you can leave is that right?” “Yeah pretty much.”  “ Yknow your head is nowhere NEAR this program.  You choose to stay in your shit every moment you’re here. You’ve still got a long time before you’re going anywhere so why don’t you focus on being here?”  “Cuz I hate it here.”  Katie got up and sat across from Jeff. “I think you hate it here cuz you make it that way for yourself. If you spent less time hating this place and more time on your friendships maybe it wouldn’t be as bad. And after awhile people don’t want to listen to you complain about being here. I think you push people away because you don’t want to invest yourself in friends since you only think of leaving.” Next to Katie sat Mandi who chimed in. “Yeah, I agree with Katie. You keep yourself pretty shallow. I think you could invest more of yourself here.” Just the Mann interrupted. “Well what about you Mandi? Seems like you could invest more of yourself too.”  “Yeah Mandi! You’re always talking about leaving too! Take a look at yourself before you come at me with that shit!” Jeff  declared. “I heard you talking about wanting to leave just the other day! You and Leslie!”  Mann now focused solely on Mandi. “What’s that about Mandi. What were you and Leslie saying?” “We weren’t saying anything. We just were sick of being here!”  “No I heard you say you’d be gone if you didn’t live so far away.” Jeff was smug in this comment knowing he was off the hotseat. “God! I wasn’t serious I just…..” “That sounds like a split contract to me!” Mann cut Mandi off. “Do you have a split contract with Leslie?” “No! I do NOT have a split contract. It may have souded like it but….” “But WHAT! Your talking about splitting. How close are you to doing that? Whats going on with you that’s so bad you’re talking about splitting?” “Nothing’s going on I was just frustrated.” “I think you got a lot more going on than that. And you and Leslie are just bringing each other down. You need to start hanging out with people that will keep your head where it needs to be. Tell you what by the end of the rap I want you to give me the name of a Discovery student who you will tell your story to by tomorrow afternoon.”  Across the room Dan leaned back in his chair to get a look at the clock. Only 43 minutes had passed. “Dan! Why are you looking over there!” “Sorry I just wanted to…..” “Your attention needs to be in here OK!?”  “OK! Sorry.”
   Mann sat back in his chair and he glanced around. “O…..kaaaay.” “Actually can I talk?” Monica was raising her hand. “Go ahead. What’s going on.” Mann sat forward in his chair and rested his chin on his fist over his knee in a Thinker pose. “Lately I’ve just felt shitty about lots of things. I miss home a lot and like my older sister got married three days ago and I couldn’t go and I really w-wanted to go…..” She stopped for a second and her eyes became glassy.  “It’s ok… go on.” Monica took a deep breath. “Ok so I’ve been trying to ignore that cuz there’s nothing I can do, but it still really bothers me that I couldn’t b-be th-there.” She began to cry. “And I feel like my judgements have really been running me lately. Like I feel like some of my clothes don’t fit and, I don’t know, I’m always watching everything I eat. Like I feel like I can’t even drink juice cuz of the sugar. And… I just…” At that moment Monica flung herself forward in her chair and clenched her fists. “FUUUUCK! I FUCKING HATE IT HERE! I JUST WANT TO GO TO MY FUCKING SISTERS WEDDING! FUUUUCK!” “How bad did you want to be there Mandy?” Mann’s voice was soft and caring. “I WANTED TO GO SO FUCKING BAD! IT FUCKING SUCKS BEING HERE! FUUUUUCK! AND I’M FUCKING SICK OF WORRYING ABOUT EVERYTHING I EAT! FUUUCK YOU YOU FAT FUCKING PIG! FUUUUUUUCK! FU-HU-HUCK!” Mandy continued in a rage while Mann spoke to her. “Yeah….. there’s a lot of feelings inside you. At some point you gotta let those feelings out.” When she stopped screaming she just sat and cried facing the floor. Then Carol, having composed herself, got up and sat across from Monica. “Um Monica I couldn’t go to my brothers wedding so I really understand how much that sucks. That was a tough time for me too. I just wanted to say that.” Monica sat back up in her chair and wiped the tears from her face. “Thanks.” The room sat silent for a moment. “Ok I think I’m done.” But Mann continued looking at her.  “Wh-hat are you looking at?” She said half laughing. “Nothing” Mann began smiling back at her. “It’s just good to see the real you once in awhile.” She rolled her eyes and smiled. “Alright already I’m done.”
“Ok. Moving on.”
   “I gotta say something.” Kevin got up and sat across from Bryan. “Last week your dorm was still using the laundry room when it was our dorms time. I’d really appreciate it if you wouldn’t do that from now on.” Bryan sat forward. “Whatever man. You’re so full of shit. The other washer wasn’t even being used when I got my clothes out. You’re just playing games.” “I’m not playing games! Dude you know we only have so much time to use the laundry room.” “Oh come off it Kevin!”  Mann again entered the conversation. “If this was such a problem for you why didn’t you bring it up last week?” “I would’ve I just never got the chance too!”  “Oh cut the crap Kevin. You could’ve told him yourself at anytime. Bryan did he bring this up to you before this?” “Nope.” Bryan said confidently. “What’s the real reason you’re doing this Kevin. Are you just pissed at Bryan for pulling you up when you were out of line?” Just then Helen and Monica got up to sit across from Kevin. Helen began, “Yeah I think you’re just playing games. I don’t think you have any real issues, you’re just trying to get back at Bryan. It really pisses me off that you come in here and pretend you have issues.” Monica quickly grabbed her opportunity to speak. “Yeah I think you’re full of shit and personally it pisses me off because you make it feel unsafe to be here. I have real issues I want to deal with and it’s really disrespectful when you bring your bullshit in here.” “I’m not full of shit I really….” Kevin was cut off by Bryans voice. “You are so full of shit! Are you telling me you didn’t have one chance to bring this up to me in the last week?” “I don’t know maybe but….. “ “Oh get HONEST! Y’know you make it extremely unsafe for people here.  Others here have real things they need to talk about.”  Amidst the bickering Dan snuck a quick look at the clock...... two hours forty five minutes to go…………

Shanlea, I’ve attempted a couple responses to your post but I wasn’t adding much to what you already said.  But here’s a few thoughts.  I still have this nagging in the back of my head that I just can’t believe I “drank the kool aid” so to speak. That I played the game until I couldn’t tell where reality was anymore. (mind you I would NOT have endorsed Cedu during my entire stay). But I have these flashing memories where I can remember so vividly being the person I was there at specific times. It’s like I’m having a memory of myself when I was in a trance. Even more I remember leaving Cedu and to some degree that trance continued, I guess I still felt like I was under the microscope. Well I read some interesting stuff on trance theory.

Most people slip in and out of various kinds of trance states hundreds of times during what is called the "normal waking state." Gurdjieff taught that to become aware that you are asleep is the first step in waking up.

trance is a specific dissociated state which will always come into existence whenever a set of cognitive objects repeat in a loop. The trance always implies that some cognitive functions are disabled.

So what is a trance? To many psychologists a trance is a state of limited awareness. Some psychologists would also characterize trance as a form of sleep, or dreamlike awareness or a kind of altered state of consciousness. Certainly trance has long been associated with hypnotic states, and with the altered states of consciousness of dervishes, shamans and yogis. Meditation does produce strong trance states. However, in my opinion, trance states are much more common than is normally believed.

So how can you tell if you are in one of these ordinary, unconscious trances? You are in a trance when your attention is limited and there is a certain repetition of thoughts. In an extreme case, your attention is so limited that it feels like "tunnel vision." The repetition of thoughts might be mantras, songs, repeating fantasies, or even the math calculations of balancing your checkbook. That song you can't get out of your head indicates a trance. Concentration, when the mind is focused on a specific problem or thought, is also a form of trance. You could characterize trance cybernetically as an awareness loop, or a circular flow of consciousness

Repetition of mantras, the whirling of dervishes, the chanting and drumming of shamans, the repetition of TV commercials all induce trance by limiting your attention and overloading your mind with repeated thoughts. The purposes may be different, the results may be different, but in my opinion the difference in trance is mainly of degree.

Proselytizing religions often use methods that will induce trance. Peer pressure, confessional types of testimonials, sense deprivation, lack of contradicting testimony, hysteria, hyper-emotionalism all contribute to constrain awareness and to increase suggestibility. Suggestibility continued over time will give rise to hallucinatory trance states. When combined with the rewards of stress release, the trances become pathological and addictive.

….. Reading these ideas on trance made me think about all the ways Cedu used entrancing methods to keep the cognative functions of our brains limited. Recurring states of fear, shock and confusion for various reasons such as upcoming raps or propheets etc.. Work assignments focused on repettetive activity. Exhaustion and even hyperventilation were present in propheets or running your anger (I particularly remember how spacey I was in the I Want to Live when we were given honey to sooth our throats from yelling). Propheet music played over and over and repeated readings of passages in “the Prophet”.  Even sleep is considered a form of trance in this theory and there is no shortage of survivors attesting to having nightmares years later.  As well various survivors talk about not being able to let go like the memory just continues to haunt them. I just find the idea interesting. Are we still in a trance to some degree? Was that their intent? Even their “tools” seem to be more effective in inducing trance than actually directing you toward a moral conclusion. Just the opposite, the tools just give you more to think about, or more to occupy your mental energy. Every decision you made suddenly involved a muriad of ways to process that decision. (Am I living my lie or my truth, What is my little kid saying, am I being my brothers keeper, Am I choosing life or death, my dream or my nightmare? Etc. etc.).  I feel that in general their teachings may have molded our brains in such a way as to sabotage itself by bombarding it with too much information hence limiting our brains functions, or leaving us in a suggestible state of trance. You were too busy thinking about yourself to think about what they were doing.  Seeing that so many people come to fornits to talk about things that happened so long ago seems do indicate a long term trance.

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Re: THINKING= the Devil
« on: August 04, 2008, 11:35:50 PM »
Thanks hurrikayne for posting this related article on an all too similar "program" in the public sector. ... #msg312200

I must say this whole business of waking up has been continuous. Does anyone else have that strange sensation that you're not out of the woods yet? In a strange way, since you've endured the expeience, do you feel like you have a broader awareness in the world around you yet can't put your finger on it? Even in defiance of cedu I still view "civilians" as not having the ability to percieve how guided their lives are for the reason that they haven't experienced being subjected to intensive psychologically manipulative tactics. Initially my reaction was to believe that Cedu was all just a crock of shit (rightly so). But does anyone else look around and wonder where the cult begins and where it ends? That feeling creeps up on me and I don't know whether I'm being paranoid or if I'm verging on a deeper understanding. I don't know. I just feel like it's  not enough to know Cedu was wrong. I need to know how it's wrong and why. Otherwise I'm unable to trust any social structure. Know what I mean?

Public Sector Gulags / Re: Straight, Inc. in Texas prisons
« on: August 01, 2008, 01:25:45 PM »
Might as well post this here. The continuation of Rulands' article at the top of this thread

Will 'SAFE-P' and TDCJ Be Held Accountable?

Illustration by Craig StaggsA SAFPF day of reckoning may be at hand.

In response to a May 23 Chronicle report – "Rehabilitation or Torture?" – that recounted inmate stories of abusive treatment in a substance-abuse program operated by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice, a legislative committee is planning hearings to review the program. According to Larance Coleman, speaking on behalf of Sen. John Whitmire, Criminal Justice Committee chair, the CJC will hold hearings on the Substance Abuse Felony Punishment Facilities (also known as SAFPF or "Safe-P"), operated by the Chicago-based Gateway Foundation under a contract worth, according to TDCJ, $38 million over five years. "We will concentrate on Safe-P programming," Coleman said of the hearings, tentatively scheduled for September, to evaluate the $234 million the Legislature appropriated last session for TDCJ rehabilitation programs. The state proposes to increase SAFPF funding by $63.1 million during 2008-09, although Gateway may not be the only vendor considered. The exact dates of the hearings will be announced two to three weeks in advance on

In January, then-inmate Jodi Stodder-Caldwell persuaded others at the TDJC's Ellen Halbert Unit in Burnet County to record their SAFPF experiences in letters submitted to Austin lawyer Derek Howard, who's considering legal action. According to numerous inmate narratives from Halbert and other units, the SAFPF program – in theory a substance-abuse treatment alternative to hard prison time – instead relies heavily on dubious forms of psychological and physical abuse. Several inmates describe a group punishment known as "tighthouse," during which inmates are forced to sit upright in plastic chairs, unmoving and silent, for as long as 16 hours a day and for weeks to months on end – a "mind-crushing" form of cruelty that has resulted in mental breakdowns and suicide attempts. The accounts also report that SAFPF inmates must routinely attack each other psychologically during an abusive form of "group therapy," while staff bellow that they are worthless.

Moreover, inmates charge that their real medical needs are subject to denial or dismissal; Gateway's response is that medical care is the responsibility of the TDCJ, not the contractor. Staff are said to dismiss untreated medical conditions, some as severe as epilepsy or cancer, with taunts or advice to "drink more water." [Former] inmate Tracey Atherton, in a narrative dated May 23, describes the callous manner in which "the guards talk about inmates who are sick. ... I heard one of the guards say: 'That fucking bitch is having a seizure.' Everything that Jodi Stodder stated is true."

There are dissenting voices, however. Shirley Otto, a SAFPF inmate in 1995 and currently a Gateway counselor working at the Hackberry Unit in Gatesville, wrote that after living on the streets, she learned "to live again" through SAFPF. She described tighthouse as "a timeout for grown-ups," with breaks for "chow" and therapy, and she accused complaining inmates of not wanting recovery. "They are looking for an easier, softer way," Otto wrote. "Somehow, some way, they missed the blessing of SAFP."

Judging from official responses thus far, the inmates may indeed find it difficult to convince the Legislature that the abuses they have chronicled are real. When the Office of Inspector General sent investigators to Halbert to interview inmates, Stodder-Caldwell told the Chronicle, investigators seemed receptive at first but turned increasingly "rude." Officially, the OIG investigation remains open, but asked in May about the results of his review, Inspector General John Moriarty said that the alleged abuses had in fact not occurred. Gateway President and CEO Michael Darcy called the inmates' descriptions of tighthouse "bizarre" and untrue, and declined to respond to the Chronicle story.

According to more recent inmate accounts, Halbert staff are aware of the public controversy but unafraid of retribution. "We were told if the lawsuit happens, what or who would give 'dope fiends like us' help?" wrote Brenda Carroll on June 5. Carroll says that she'd been forced to wet herself because an "expeditor" (a ranking inmate in the SAFPF "therapy" program) had denied her request to go to the restroom. "I was also forced to sit in the box [a solitary chair] ... for not being aware of my 'need.'" (I.G. Moriarty expressly rejected allegations that inmates are deprived of bathroom breaks.)

The SAFPF "therapy" model is based upon a practice known as "therapeutic communities," which had its origins in a Sixties-era California drug-abuse program called Synanon. Critics and proponents alike date the peer-based TC methods to the "attack therapy" popularized by Charles Dederich in the Santa Monica-based Synanon, which eventually degenerated into a brutal and murderous cult, as reported in a 1979 Pulitzer Prize-winning exposé in the Point Reyes Light by then-publisher Dave Mitchell. "It's unfortunate that Synanon became the model for therapeutic communities; basically a large portion of drug treatment is based on a cult," Mitchell said in an interview. Synanon was eventually shut down by the authorities, in part because in addition to abuse of patients, staff were assaulting defectors from the program and threatening detractors with death.

Available for committee testimony should be survivors of other disgraced programs that operate on the therapeutic communities model. Some said they would testify just how closely the SAFPF accounts resonate with their own victimization in TCs incubated at Synanon. "The women [in SAFPF] have charged they must often sit silently, rigidly, face-forward, in plastic chairs for long hours or days, occasionally through periods of weeks on end. This was true of Straight, Inc. as well," wrote Shelby Earnshaw, director of a survivor support group, the International Survivors Action Committee ( in an e-mail. Tony Connelly, now in his 30s, told the Chronicle that he still hears in his mind the sound of kids being abused at another Synanon-style TC facility, Kids Helping Kids, where he was a patient/inmate from the age of 14 to 16. Connelly says children were required to sit for hours on donated church pews – sometimes held down by "peers" and their noses pinched so they couldn't breathe. Connelly recalled, "The sitting, the rigid posture, the staring at the wall, the limited showers and restroom breaks are all familiar to me. The forced confessions, the demeaning attacks ... requiring inmates to report infractions of other inmates or face punishment are all too vivid to me." Connelly added that the authorities count on the public dismissing such complaints because they come from addicts or former addicts.

"All therapeutic communities have their origins in Synanon," acknowledged Austin criminologist Martin La Barbera. But after Synanon's demise, La Barbera says, professionals revived and refined a good idea – peer therapy – into modern-day TCs. In the 1990s, Gov. Ann Richards appointed La Barbera to the committee that would incorporate the TC model into her prison reform initiatives. This was the "Golden Age," he said, when Texas set the standard for the nation. "All beds were to be treatment beds," was Richards' directive, La Barbera says. At the same time, however, the name "Substance Abuse Felony Punishment" was coined, possibly to indicate rehabilitation would still involve retributive justice. "But I do not believe that 'punishment' was ever Gov. Richards' goal," La Barbera contends.*

When Richards left office, the Texas Department of Criminal Justice absorbed all rehab duties and dispensed with La Barbera's services. Still a consultant to prison systems elsewhere, La Barbera contends that despite its origins, the TC model has saved lives and spared many people considerable pain and suffering. "I don't want the baby to be thrown out with the bathwater," he argues. "TCs are powerful. As with anything that is powerful, the power can be directed for good or misdirected."

If he were to testify, La Barbera says he would urge the Legislature to insure that all SAFPFs meet "fidelity" – a strict set of guidelines insuring TC practitioners have the "right attitude" above all else. He would also recommend intensive "immersion" training, in which authorities and staff experience what inmates will experience. "If you don't meet fidelity ... then it's a crapshoot," La Barbera says.

For her part, Stodder-Caldwell sees no redeeming qualities to the TC model. "It is a program of contradictions, where it is almost impossible to do the right thing. 'Attack therapy' is only a form of psychological violence and abuse," Stodder-Caldwell said. She says she will urge legislators to divert the millions sent to Gateway – which provides only "counseling," as the state picks up the tab for housing, food, clothing, and GED education – to pay for vocational and computer training instead. "These opportunities are not provided in SAFPF. Therefore, in reality a person leaves in much the same situation as they came in – broke and unemployable," Stodder-Caldwell says.

The Legislature is not likely to hear public testimony from SAFPF staff who fear retribution. In an e-mail, one respondent to the Chronicle article wrote, "I love my job there and feel I am one of the few people who work there who 'give the offenders a voice.' ... But if Gateway claims that the inmates are (and were) in chairs for only four hours a day, that is a lie. ... What are your plans at this point to hold Gateway accountable?"

That will be the challenge for the Criminal Justice Committee.

*[The original version of this story mistakenly attributed the coining of the name "Substance Abuse Felony Punishment" to the Texas Department of Criminal Justice when it was in fact coined during Gov. Richards' administration. The Chronicle regrets the error.] ... d%3A645915

HA!HA!  Thats frekin hysterical! You paint quite a picture. Of course from now on I'll only imagine you looking like Jackie Chan. Anyone ever tell you all your posts look like an art peice?

CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Re: How did they...
« on: July 29, 2008, 08:50:09 PM »
It seems to ring true to me, at least the heirachal nature of the listed "needs". example the Donner Party converting to cannibalism when traveling through a snowstorm without food.
Quote: Psy
Cannibalism of the dead...  They didn't kill anybody to eat them.  Plus...  There are many examples of people giving up their lives so that others might live.  Not everybody becomes an animal (though many do, as program demonstrates so well).  Maslow's theory may apply to many, but IMO, it certainly does not apply to all.  It's a very selfish doctrine, IMO, and not everybody fits that profile.

A case can be made that it's better to help those around you and benefit society as a whole, of which you are a part, than to help yourself directly.  (a selfish justification for altruism!)  What goes around, comes around, rule of reciprocity, and all that jazz... --end quote

I've been unsettled by this one too long so I have to respond. Cannibalism was a terrible example, I shouldn't have used it. I don't believe the vast majority of people would kill and eat another person even when starved to the point of death. But, dare I say it, I can imagine and/or forgive someone eating of the dead to survive. (Anyone seen the movie ALIVE).
There... that's my only point.... I don't want anyone thinking I'm going to eat them if I don't get dinner.

Strangely though I can't help but think that there is some sort of intuitive heirarchy engrained in people, at the survival level at least. Aren't we willing to do things that we wouldn't normally do for the sake of surviving? At the physiological level, if our needs aren't met we would go to further and further extremes to survive right? Would a vegetarian eat a fish? Or might a carnivore used to eating beef kill a monkey for sustinance?  I guess I'm just questioning how we value life in general. Surely we would value a human life more than an ant. And why? Is it because we value life in terms of that species' ability to reach a higher level of consciousness? If so, then there would be some heirarchal belief that you are worth more than say ... a dog.

But when It comes to people I think the line is drawn. A single starving person would not kill and eat another. But what if you are responsible for the survival of a group of people? Would you go to greater extremes to sustain them than if you were alone? What if you were at odds with another group? Would you sink to their level so your group could benefit? Or maybe you would adopt a belief such as Maslows to ensure your group maximizes its potential? To me this is where the conundrum lies. (psy is this what you mean by "at cause?"). As a group it makes more sense to beleive in Maslow's heirarchal pyramid, but as an individual reaching the top is not likely and requires the view that we value human life in terms of their ability to reach certain levels within the group. It doesn't allow us to value each other equally.  Umm... I hope I made some sort of point here. Anyone?

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