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Feed Your Head / Re: Mentally stimulating Documentaries. preferably free.
« on: October 30, 2011, 08:00:58 PM »
Some interesting points from “The Corporation”

Early corporations, before the industrial revolution (1820), were chartered by the state to perform a specific function. The few in existence were heavily stipulated, how long they could operate, the capitalization amount, they could not produce anything that was not in the charter, they could not own another corp. and the shareholders were fully liable. Legally corps. Were a subordinate entity that was a gift from the people to serve the public good (such as building bridges), it was not a privilege to anyone that anyone could form one.

During the industrial revolution and the Civil war corporate lawyers sought to remove the legal constrictions from corps. In 1868 the civil War ended and the 14th amendment was passed giving equal rights to blacks mandating that “no state can deprive any person of life liberty or property without due process of law. “ In 1886 corporate lawyers argued that a corporation is a person as well. The Supreme Court sided with corporations and granted them the right to be legally recognized as persons under the 14th amendment. Between 1890- 1910, 307 cases were brought to court under the 14th amendment. 288 of those cases were corporations, only 19 were from African americans. 600,000 people died in the Civil war.

Today corporations are legally required to place the interests of it’s shareholders above competing interests. It is obligated to put the bottom line before anything else, even the public good.  If a psychiatric diagnosis of corporations were conducted, it is argued that it would be labeled psychopathic.

With the advent of the science of gene sequencing and genetically modified organisms corporations have gained the rights to patent their discoveries. Today it is legal to patent the genetic blueprints of any life form with the exception of a full born human being. Every time a gene is discovered it is patented and claimed as intellectual property.

Thought Reform / Re: Experimental Timeline Project: Brainwashing
« on: October 30, 2011, 03:20:44 PM »
1931- 1941 Kurt Lewin, Tamara Dembo: The Relationship Between Frustration and Regression.

Lewin and his student Tamara Dembo devise experiments to study the effects of inducing frustration in order to produce regression as it concerns stages of development in a subject. Regression being defined as opposite to development, and development seen as increase in variety of behavior,  increase in hierarchal organizations, and extension of area activities and interests.

Lewin used the term “action units” to identify how people learn and develop to interact with their environment. Exemplifying this are experiments in task development and interruption. One, in which a subject must perform a series of actions that eventually become habitual, identifies the growth in size of action units, the subject no longer needs to maintain consciousness of each individual step, thus with repetition the subject moves through the task with more continuity and the number of units of action become less until the entire task comprises a single action unit. Upon interrupting the task by altering the sequence of events (i.e. pull the lever instead of push) the subject finds they must consciously fight the urge to push the lever, and distraction of the subjects attention will lead to errors. This can be compared to unconscious motivation.

In a related experiment Lewin and Dembo interrupted children playing with “highly desireable toys” and substituted “less desireable toys”, moreover the desireable toys were kept in view of the children. The result was frustration, regression in the quality of the children’s play, or the action units diminish in size. This is was purportedly because the children were still “psychologically involved in the interrupted activity of playing with the desirable toys.”

Probably the most interesting experiment was conducted by Dembo (1931) in which she directs her subjects to solve a problem which is in fact impossible to solve. When they become thoroughly frustrated and request to leave the experimenter excercises authority and asserts they can solve the problem if they just try. (the relationship between experimenter and subject is compared with Milgram’s  obedience studies and Zimbardo’s prison experiment.)  Provided that a barrier prevent the subject from leaving the experiment, Dembo observed that the mounting tension destroys “the boundaries which ordinarily distinguish self from other, reality from unreality, and one intention system of activity from another.” In this situation a different kind of regression occurs which Dembo termed “primitization of the lifespace” leading subjects to “act in irrational ways, exploding in anger or performing behavior which does not really lead to the goal.” This was considered influential in realizing the power of arousing emotion to transform a person and their perception of the situation they are in, their “lifespace”, and would be reflected in Lewin’s other work on personality formation, group dynamics, and sensitivity training. ... KpxKDQ2b7g

Thought Reform / Re: Experimental Timeline Project: Brainwashing
« on: October 30, 2011, 01:25:36 AM »
Yeah, I know this is somewhat of a broad, ambitious project. Like you emphasize, Ursus, the many overlapping influences. And NOSOB, you are speaking of the very broad scope historically and culturally. Certainly there will be a lot of questions as to where it starts and ends. But that was originally the nature of studying mind control, drawing from any and all of the great innovative minds of the day. I think looking at what they were looking at, and placing dates and times can identify some trends.  It’s a start, and is not something available currently.

Thought Reform / Re: Documentary Film, "Human Resources"
« on: October 29, 2011, 11:48:04 PM »

well done, informative flick.

Last year I thought I might get a laugh by first offering a bowl of raw veggies to the kids before the candy bowl. NObody thought it was funny.

Thought Reform / Re: Experimental Timeline Project: Brainwashing
« on: October 29, 2011, 11:36:14 PM »
Here is my first submission.

1918- 1921 Ivan Povlov and Artificially Induced Neurosis in Dogs.

 Povlov discovered he could induce what he termed “artificial neurosis” in dogs by overstraining the “excitory” or “inhibitory” processes, or quickly alternating excitation and inhibition from which he drew an analogy with the human manifestations of catatonia and schizophrenia. A famous experiment in 1921 trained dogs to discern between a circle and an elipses for a food reward. Gradually the circles and elipses were changed to be more and more similar.  In time the dogs became confused and neurotic, and eventually lost the ability to determine between obvious elipses and circles. They exhibited excitation, and were no longer calm during experiments. The dogs become “agitated, barkes, salivates, bites at its harness, and generally goes beserk. When placed back in the kennel, it may remain "insane" for months or years.”
Gale Encyclopedia of Biography, Oxford Companion to the Mind.

Thought Reform / Experimental Timeline Project: Brainwashing
« on: October 29, 2011, 11:34:22 PM »
Experimental Timeline Project: Brainwashing

I had the idea to enlist the help of Fornits to help in attempting to formulate a timeline of important historical people and events that pertain to brainwashing, thought reform, coercive persuasion, mind control and other elements thereof that may help to put chronological perspective on the subject.  In this first phase of development any pertinent subject matter can be submitted from any time period. Eventually, hopefully, the blanks can be filled in, and the timeline can be under continuous revision. Perhaps when the list has been refined to a point, it can be re-posted as a complete project.  

I am not sure how successfully this will turn out, but I have found mind control etc. to be a complicated subject, and with a lot of history to discuss. It is hard to categorize it, and there are many overlapping events and influences. I am hoping this will help overcome those problems. One thing I request is that the presented subject matter be offered in a brief form, like a summary or abstract, with links to facts. If you post subject matter that requires further details, discussion, or controversy, please post them in a separate topic with a link.

So without further adieu,

Open Free for All / Re: So you were not taken in the rapture....
« on: October 26, 2011, 11:03:50 PM »
Apparently mr. Camping is out of salvation. I’m thinkin reeces pieces?

Open Free for All / Re: So you were not taken in the rapture....
« on: October 15, 2011, 12:44:23 AM »
Check out this candy.

Judgement day is now set for Oct. 21 2011! If you have gone the last half a year thinking you were DAMNED to HELL, THINK AGAIN!!! Due to an unforeseeable human error, that assuredly will not happen again we now know that YOU STILL HAVE a few DAYS TO SAVE YOUR TAINTED SOUL FROM ETERNAL PURGATORY. Get your forgiveness while it’s hot.

“Harold Camping at Family Radio first started the Rapture 2011 craze with his prophecy that Jesus would return on May 21, 2011 for the Rapture.  Since that date has come and gone without the Rapture, many have been left wondering if the Rapture would still come in 2011?
Yes.  The Rapture is now predicted to come on the date of October 21, 2011.  Originally thought to be the date of the End of the World alone, now understood to be the Rapture, Judgement Day, and End of Time all at once, October 21 will be the most important day in history.  There will be no newspaper reports the day after the Rapture, about how Doomsday destroyed the Earth, but the true believers in Jesus will celebrate their eternal life in Heaven upon realizing their fate.”

Quote from: "Ursus"
Cross-post from the thread discussing Maia Szalavitz's recent article on this bill:

-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Quote from: "Maia Szalavitz"
The legislation would prohibit sexual, physical and emotional abuse and would ban the use of deprivation — of food, sleep, clothing and shelter, for example — as punishment or for any other reason. The use of physical restraint would be permitted only for safety, and all programs would be required to provide residents with "reasonable" access to a telephone. It would require staff to be educated about what specifically counts as child abuse and how to report it, and mandate programs to disclose staff qualifications to parents.
My main problem with with this bill, at least with how it is summarized by Maia, is that it omits psychological coercion from the list of prohibited abuses. Also, that it leaves a wide open loophole for TBSs and other programs of that ilk to market themselves as being basically "schools," and hence not subject to the constraints of this bill.

In programs utilizing substantial degrees of psychological coercion, students have been convinced that physical abuse and sexual abuse that they've been subjected to is actually their own fault. These students may not even think to complain or make use of something like an easily accessed phone, let alone call a hotline. By the time they wake up to this fact, they are long past their time in program. Some folks never quite wake up to it.

This is not to say that the net effect of such coercion is minimal. Far from it. In some cases, the damage has been life-long. To subject someone to coercion is to regress them, which is hardly beneficial to anyone, let alone an adolescent in the process of determining his/her self identity. Although this has been known for several decades, for some reason the APA has been loathe to take a stand on it, at least as to how it pertains to programs intended to modify behavior.

Ursus, I agree with what are pointing out. I am not very familiar with this bill, but if it avoids the topic of psychological coercion then it is not addressing the heart of the matter, I believe. Generally, people know that physical, verbal and sexual violence is wrong and it can be identified and addressed so long as it is out in the open. But psychological coercion is a kind of violence that most people are not aware of. To me this is the most important issue because it is abuse that goes hidden and unprovable and this kind of covert coercion, historically, is a pretty big subject of study. It should be given serious attention to preventing it from occurring. I don’t believe we can rely on a system that requires proof of someone’s intent to coerce or brainwash, not in the case of programs. It needs to specifically identify situations, structured environments etc. that CAN support undetectable, covert coercion, and try to eliminate those possibilities.   I imagine getting something passed that appropriately could protect against this threat would be enormously challenging, and require major changes in the TTI. But unless it happens it will be pretty hard to trust that any program is safe.

(also, I am curios how “emotional abuse” is defined in this sense, quite a variable imo).

Open Free for All / Re: Joke for the Day!!
« on: October 10, 2011, 12:01:11 AM »

.................................................... in his sleavies

Open Free for All / Re: Joke for the Day!!
« on: October 09, 2011, 11:45:38 PM »
where does a king keep his armies?

Feed Your Head / Mentally stimulating Documentaries. preferably free.
« on: October 09, 2011, 11:38:11 PM »
mentally stimulating Documentaries FREE!................ preferably.


I was going to post this documentary, “The Corporation”,  here but was thinking peoples might have some interesting contributions to a ‘Documentaries’ thread (hopefully accessible on youtube or Netflix but….)  post your interesting documentary films.

I am starting with one I think is very interesting and enlightening, “The Corporation”.  I watched this film and it was informative as to the inception and development of corporations, and had some really thought provoking viewpoints, and some heavy points of contention that had me thinking about the societal effects, some of which can be translated well into the Fornits arena. Personally, I thought the topic of “externalities” was a perfect word to describe survivors of programs, unaccounted for byproducts of industry essentially. Nice piece o work.

Here is the youtube link.  THE CORPORATION –  

Add your informative film/documentary to this list.

Public Sector Gulags / Re: Guided Group Interaction (GGI)
« on: October 09, 2011, 11:21:38 PM »
Quote from: "N.O.S.O.B."
I think in the "Individual Rights and the Federal Role" COngressional report they talk about an adolescent program that used Guided Interaction Therapy in thier group therapy. "GIT"

I just got a Tavistock book Called "Reluctant Rebels; Re-education and Group Process in a Residential Community"  haven't read it yet but it's from 1959. They use McCorkle as a another about "reconditioned impulse, a direct approach to reshaping the persona"

I guess this is what they used to call brainwashing before the communist got into it...I don't know

Interesting piece of evidence. If you get a chance could you quote a brief reference of that.

Thought Reform / Re: Carol Menzel "Coercive Psychology, 1974"
« on: October 09, 2011, 07:10:20 PM »
Quote from: "dragonfly"
just one tiny bit taken from ... cience.htm

this is a pretty great article from 1974, lot's of history, I'm assuming Ursus, you've read this cause it's alot of what you've mentioned....

3. The "Attack Therapies"

The so-called "humantstic therapies - sensitivity training sessions, transactional analysis, Primal Therapy, etc. - are at the very core of coercive psychology. It is such anti-Freudian introspective psychologies that have provided the brainwasher with the "psychodynamic insights" of neurosis, and the know-how to further pervert this neurosis into a controlling - even programming - force. These so-called "humanists" are the real experts in exploiting and in channeling the sickness of bourgeois ideology.

The anti-behaviorists - mainly Freudians and Gestaltists - who were a dominant force through the early 1930's trickled down to a mere handful by the


1940's. Some defected to the overt enemy's camp, behaviorism; some sunk into eclecticism; and a large number lit on any "humanistic" fad or gimmick that appeared. The latter crew, epitomized by R.D. Laing, have now become even more "Pavlovian" than Pavlov. Laing, who comes straight out of the Tavistock Clinic, views the state of madness as a positive act of liberation.

His Kingsley Hall, a supposed therapeutic community in London, is an actual "house of madness." One Kingsley Hall resident, Mary Barnes, regressed to the point of completely smearing herself and her physical surroundings with her own feces. The therapy involved? The therapist sits back and, like the friendly aide to someone on LSD, guides the patient's "journey to madness."

The central thrust of Laing and his cohorts is to worm in on the infantile ego by taking the protective persona and chipping or in some cases axing it away. Without a revolutionary alternative, i.e. a self-conscious identity, the persona-stripped individual has two choices: either return to the infantile ego state, developing an even more armoured persona or a pseudo-identity persona, or commit suicide.

I don’t know about La rouche, but I believe this article by Carol Menzel is pretty on point.  The facts are in line. Being in CEDU, I see several glaring relationships he makes, especially concerning humanistic, primal, transactional analysis, laing, etc., used in a thought reform setting.  This is a traceable, interconnected history start to finish.

Great part of the article to quote concerning the humanistic approaches, and I agree with his analysis of how these can be very coercive, and able to produce neurosis as a programming force, even going undetected by the subject.

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