Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Daytop Village => Topic started by: Anonymous on January 10, 2005, 04:17:00 PM
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As a teenager, I was a resident in Daytop's "long-term treatment" Rhinebeck, NY and Millbrook, NY facilities. I was caught smoking pot and drinking--just your average teenage stuff. My parents dealt with it by sending me to this hellhole. Now that they are more educated and know about the program, they are remorseful. These are just a few things I witnessed while in the Daytop "program":
"Treatment" consisted of uneducated "counselors" yelling profanity and derrogatory comments at the top of their lungs--day after day, group after group. Strip searches were common--especially when perverted staff were on the schedule for that day. Residents were forced to wear signs that said things like: "I am a Liar" or "I am a dope fiend loser", etc. I was forced to wear clothes that were 2 sizes too big, because my primary counselor referred to my "slutty body" as "too image." Apparently Daytop's idea of "drug treatment" is associated with degradation and humiliation.
No communication with family was permitted for the first 30 days. How is this legal? All communication was monitored and limited thereafter. I was fearful of complaining to my parents while in treatment, because of possible staff retaliation.
"Marathon" groups utilized age-old cult tactics, such as food and sleep deprivation, to "break down" group members. After clients confessed personal history and secrets in the Marathon (such as sexual identity issues, childhood sexual abuse, etc.), the predators in the group salivated. This is not a safe place for people with trauma or psychiatric history! I witnessed many people being harrassed and victimized by sociopathic residents following Marathon! Some of the staff members were decent people, but others permitted and even encouraged emotionally abusive stuff!
When I was a teenage girl, Daytop housed adolescent males and females in the same facility. This led to all kinds of sexual assault and harrassment.
I remember an incident where a resident was forced to sit on "the chair" outside, all night, in the dead of winter. Daytop administration did not report this to CPS. The residence director responsible for the abuse was "disciplined" by being relocated to a different position-where he is responsible for staff "training." This is just one of many covered-up, resident abuse stories.
Brainwashing, mindcontrol, an omnipotent leader (The Monsignor), its own language, origins in Synanon---the list goes on with proof that Daytop fits the criteria for a cult. And its abuses are too numerous to count. Yet publicity remains almost non existent about the evils of Daytop. Perhaps this has something to do with the organization's political connections. I wish this abusive monster could be exposed, to prevent further harm and abuse.
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Welcome and thanks for doing your small part.
Web pages are like babies -- creation involves a level of enthusiasm that does not necessarily carry over into maintenance.
--Joe Chew
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Please, and this is important to me, tell we what years you were in Daytop.
I am in a personal debate with a director of a prison based TC who is also a graduate of Daytop in the early 70s. I am going to copy and paste your post along with the dates you were there.
He swears up and down Daytop was "different". I keep calling bullshit on him.
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Sounds like they had you're ass good. It didn't sink in? Do you not think they were giving you an opportunity? Just to face the facts? Sounds like tough love to me. :smokin:
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Hi Greg FL,
I wrote the original message here. I was at Daytop Residential 1994-95.
Anonymous,
Daytop gave me the "opportunity" to "face the facts" about cult dynamics. Other than that, it was a waste of my time. If Daytop had the chance to "sink in" I would be: 1)Mentally and emotionally inhibited by PTSD or 2) A Daytop robot, currently working within the TC as a so-called "counselor". I count my lucky stars that Daytop did not "sink in" and that they did not "have my ass good."
If Daytop is the pillar of "tough love", then "abuse" must have a new definition. I hope you were being sarcastic with your comments.
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hey,
i was a counselor at daytop in '95. i was often ostracized and denigrated due to the fact that i was classically educated (not a "daytopian") and took serious issue with the treatment of kids there. i eventually was squeezed out by acting director lanza who changed/doubled my shifts without notice until i decided to leave. pretty sad, huh?
anyway, i worked in the ADU and my name is steve. i hope i was some help to you while you were there...
mind telling me your first name?
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This whole fucking website is a cult run by free masons and anti-christs and nazis. Look up Fager's portfolio :smokin:
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On 2005-02-11 02:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"This whole fucking website is a cult run by free masons and anti-christs and nazis. Look up Fager's portfolio :smokin: "
Wes has nothing to do with this site. :rofl: :rofl: I told all four that there are going to be some times where we don't
agree with each other, but that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it
would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator.
--GW Büsh, CNN.com, December 18, 2000
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Hi Steve,
I am the former Daytop resident 94-95.
It sounds like you were one of the few, ethical and clinically appropriate counselors. I do remember counselors like you, who tried their best to be responsible, therapeutic, and empathetic. Joe B from the Millbrook warehouse comes to mind. Like you, most of the decent counselors were not Daytop graduates and/or had some formal education. As we are both aware, most Daytop staff do not have a GED, much less formal clinical training or other college education. I don't remember a Steve--but my memory is blurry on names of staff and residents from that period of time.
When you mentioned Lanza--that triggered a name recollection. Frank Lanza is the director I mentioned in my original post. He made a kid sit on the chair, during winter, outside of the facility. Daytop responded to a complaint about the incident by moving Lanza to a position where he is now responsible for staff training. I am sure numerous staff have reaped the benefits of Lanza's insight about ethics and clinically sound treatment. LOL.
My name is Angela--originally from Long Beach, NY
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hey angela,
glad to hear you're doing well. it always makes me feel good when i hear one of the "kids" has made it to a better place.
i don't remember you either, but i worked in the adolescent diagnostic unit, so you may have been transferred to the other side before i started there.
have you heard from others that were there at the same time? i miss some of you...
lanza's no longer in charge of anything. he's dead and buried - literally. i read online that he had a heart attack and died some time ago (2 years maybe?).
i worked with george, mike and hendrick in the adu. i always wonder what happened to those guys too.
anyway, hope you're hanging in there...
steve g.
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Hi Steve,
I have maintained a 10 year, long distance friendship with one former resident. I won't mention her name to protect her privacy. She lives upstate and is doing well as a nurse practitioner.
I do remember a George from Daytop, maybe it was ADU--a fellow native Long Islander. My friend/former co-resident mentioned that she sees George from time to time-- they work for the same hospital. He is a social worker now and left Daytop after completing his degree.
I'm not suprised that Lanza bit the dust via heart problems. He seemed fueled by anger and anxiety. Were you there for the incident I mentioned?
Are you still working in a related field?
All The Best, Angela
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hey angela,
good to hear your news. george always was a bright guy. he pulled himself up by his bootstraps after about a 10 year bid for armed robbery and a terrible drug habit. i always figured he would rise above and go beyond.
i was not there for the incident you mentioned and lanza was still "acting" director when i left.
i have departed the mental health field for good. the system is just soooo broken that it's hard to do good work for one's clients. i worked for a while doing mental health claims reviews for Wellcare (an HMO), but found the same sort of problems there. i was told always to initially deny coverage and fight it out to pay as little as possible. again, patients being cheated out of care they desperately need. it's sickening.
if your friend speaks to george, please have her pass on my regards, ok?
i wonder if i know who your friend might be? in any case, good for her!
take care,
steve[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-01-24 13:02 ]
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Hi Steve,
I can relate to your feelings about working in the mental health system. Many programs are stagnant with dysfunction.
Following my experience at Daytop, I pursued a career in the behavioral health field. Initially, I was highly motivated, enthusiastic and devoted to advocacy. I worked in various paraprofessional/counseling positions while doing my undergraduate work. And now I have moved from idealism to a stage of realism...
A few years ago, I got an MSW. After several years working in outpatient mental health, I am burned out due to substandard working conditions, low pay, and the way most of these agenices neglect sound clinical treatment. Clients are treated like numbers and clinicians are treated like manufacturing workers. I send out resumes, go on interviews--but nothing in the field seems appealing. I interviewed today for an adult inpatient rehab that makes Daytop look like a sparkling country club. The director of the program presented with an angry tone and attitude--not the kind of person I'd enjoy as my boss.
I am trying to make a career transition--thinking about human resource management/IS. I am not opposed to returning to school, but feel daunted by the potential financial burden. I still owe loans for this crappy social work degree.
I am curious, how did you make your career switch? You seem insightful--so any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.
All The Best,
Angela
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hey angela,
nice to hear from you again. btw, are you residing on LI or up in our lovely hudson valley???
career transition. two ugly and scary words, especially if you've already done it once (or more).
well, i can say that your msw gives you the leg-up in HR, but that you should really consider an MBA-HR degree, as that's the fast track to success in the HR arena.
you can't go wrong with IS, especially in the medical field. your experience in social gerontology tells you that there are millions of "baby boomers" who now need to be dealt with by the medical field in some capacity or other (you may want to explore MSW vs Gerontology, for a paradigm shift and possible monetary improvement, i.e. Occupational Therapy, etc).
i was in much the same situation as you about ten years ago: unsatisfied, somewhat defeated, most definitely jaded as hell. i "retooled" with an MCSE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer) and went to work in IT. starting salaries are normally 50K+ with six figures not wholly uncommon.
i guess it really comes down to market positioning: one needs to look ahead and forecast one's longevity in any given market. like i said, IT + Medical = steady work. find your niche. you're certainly smart enough.
if it turns out that you are residing in my area, i would be more than happy to meet with you and discuss this further (or just talk about whatever).
best regards,
steve[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-01-21 08:13 ]
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Twenty years later I finally see it clearly. Great business idea. Everyone on welfare. Five to a room. Just sit back and collect the government checks. I wish I had thought of that. While we were busy scrubbing floors with a toothbrush Father O'brien was flying around in his helicopter.
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This so called abusive cult has saved thousands of lives since its conseption back in the early 1960s.I must agree that some staff members are nuckleheads and they don't deserve the trust of those that have been abused or were abusing drugs. Daytop is not for everyone. Perhaps a teenager who is smoking a joint here and there does not have the addictive personality that a hard core drug addict has and therefore should be treated at home by the parents. I think that in the case of this young lady the parents should have been subjected to treatment & not the child. It is clear to me by what i read that this young lady did not have a problem yet.
perhaps a little prevention work at home would work for her.
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On 2005-03-18 13:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
Perhaps a teenager who is smoking a joint here and there does not have the addictive personality that a hard core drug addict has and therefore should be treated at home by the parents.
"Treatment" for adolescent experimentation? You and those who think as you do are definitely part of the problem.
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I think if you replaced the words "treated at home" with "properly parented" you're on target.
As a former employee of Daytop (Adolescent Diagnostic Unit), I could easily expound on mistreatment of kids there, but that wouldn't be germane to your comment.
Parents should do a better job of being involved in thier children's lives, period. Unfortunately, many parents use Daytop (and other programs) as a "safety valve" for problems they have created for themselves and for their children. They can't clean up their own mess, so they "sweep it under the rug" by sending the child away to a program.
On the outside it's "my kid needs help," but on the inside it's "I can't take this anymore." Placing the child is simply a means by which to avoid the unpleasant consequences (a child who "acts out") of the parents' own behavior (poor parenting).
The child is first scapegoated (made to bear responsibility of their poor rearing), then neglected, abused, dehumanized and humiliated by the program(s). BUT, since the parents are almost never aware of these facts ("blissfully ignorant"), to them, the problem has gone away.
Thus we arrive at statements such as "The program is saving my kid." For the critical thinker, the translation: "Thank God this is no longer my problem."
This comes as no surprise in a time when the child's teacher does the parenting for him/her for the majority of the day and the television does it for the remainder...
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Very good, "properly parented" is a much better term to discribe the old it's not my fault.
maybe not. However the child in this case smoked a joint or three and was sent to an intensive residential tratreatment center. not good.
I worked for Daytop Adolescent Re - Entry in Far Rockaway, also worked for The Adolescent dyognostic center @ Fox Run when Frank Lanza(don't like speaking ill of the dead but.....you know the rest) was the area director. I quit because i was tired of beating a dead horse. the amount of stress that i endured did not meet the means.I found that in re entry the kids were way more relaxed and conduted themselves much better. although adolescents will be adolescents. Treated at home was a term loosely thrown around in far rockaway to say don't give us your problem. We deal with serious hard core junkies. It's too bad no one can truly understand the adolescent,eventhough we were all there once. Anyone that has worked as closely as i did with the founders of Daytop knows that their mission to sencearly help those that need help is genuine. Daytop is not an abusive cult...or at least not intentionally. the numbers are the numbers without beds filled funding would not exist, and that's not good for those who care.The adolescent counselors may need to deal with their own frustrations by doing some listening,& not yelling or using abusive, demeaning language.Thank you for your reply.
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Well, it appears we were working there at the same time, under Frank Lanza (who is dead now, by the way).
The problem I have with your argument is that counselors like myself who are classically educated and degreed and deal with kids the way you suggest we should get ostracized and "squeezed out" of Daytop by the "Daytopians" (people who ascended to their position through the program and who have no real qualifications to assume care of anyone, much less a kid).
The reason that the "Daytopians" are eager to get rid of educated counselors is simple: their lack of qualifications/abilities and the "cult-like" atmosphere make them afraid of outsiders by whom they feel threatened. That is, they are afraid to be exposed for what and who they are, namely uneducated, unqualified people who cannot find and maintain gainful employment EXCEPT AT DAYTOP. Frank Lanza fit this bill perfectly.
Now, let me also say that I know and did know a few people from Daytop who were wonderful with their kids. The low pay, harsh environment and the "Daytopians" brought these folks down and squeezed them out...
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what drugs are you on
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On 2005-03-19 09:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"what drugs are you on"
Possibly, if I were on some hard-core substances, Daytop's methodology WOULD make sense. Otherwise, it is what it is: the blind leading the blind...
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It appears so. Frank & I never got along, I thought his ego & lack of understanding or refusal to understand the kids was not what Daytop teaches he was do as i say, not as i do, thankfuly, we were taught to conduct ourselves professionally at work and to uphold a higher moral standard outside of work. I was a friend of his boss and although i am a Daytopian as you so eloquently put it he tried to squeeze me out with the rest of the classically educated, degreed bunch. What got rid of me was those weekends alone with the kids who were impossible to keep structured, or controlled - comes to mind. actaully I left because i needed to join the real world. I never had a problem with the mental health staff, never thought of them as outsiders trying to expose me for my lack of education, I always thought we worked effectively together. I unfortunately was a troubled adolescent smoking pot, drinking ( like the young lady we seem to have lost track of) and whatever else was no good for me. I listened to those who were genuine in my opinion and stayed away from those who thought they were better because they were book smart. I was street smart and that with a little common sence went a long way for me. I also care and have a big heart. I have many friends that still work for Daytop, I left back in February of 1995 I am no longer in the field. I keep in touch with Dan Galegher via email, he's no longer with daytop I was one of his better students in family theropy I was able to connect with most families when others failed or gave up. Back to the young lady she was thrown into the "Concept" without being auditioned for the part. Scary!
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Don't worry. We haven't lost track of the "young lady." If you go back and read this thread you'll see she suffered as a resident of Daytop and subsequently as a caregiver (MSW) in a broken-down system, and is now looking for a new career. Funny how we all arrive at the same point, isn't it?
You left in Feb. '95, huh? I started at the ADU in early '95, so I guess we just missed one another. I worked with Mike Clifford, George Weisenburger and Hendrick Toney (not sure if the last name's right) who were ALL great guys.
Anyway, I hope you are doing well in your current endeavors.
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Thanks again for your reply I was the sneior staff over the new guys Mike clifford sounds familiar great bunch of guys there was a girl also foget her name, sorry I had to abandon ship.
I'M doing well Thank you, hope the young lady finds her way.
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The "what drugs are you on" statement was not ment for you, disfunction j.
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Wow, I was browsing DAYTOP's website and I saw that Frank Lanza's family was given an award of some kind for Frank, which made me do a search on him to see if he was really departed. So I'd like to tell you a little bit of my experience with DV to maybe try and give you a little perspective. In the end, tho, the one thing that i realized as DV grew was that it was a business and that they have to do what they have to do.
I was a resident of DV as a teenager in the early 80's. I have to tell you that what i have heard hear was very disheartening. When i started DV there were 10 facilities. 40th st (which was intake and headquarters and we didn't even have the entire building full) 409 on ninth Avenue (which was re-entry), Millbrook, Parksville, Swan Lake and the 5 outreaches Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx, S.I . (which actually opened later during my years there).
When i went to Millbrook, it was a teenage facility, not like it is now. It had a very homely feeling to it. The staff, the residents and there was a maintenance man, I don't remember his name, but i'll never forget him. He was one of the reason Millbrook felt like home. The neighbors accepted us. There was a little red schoolhouse with two old lady teachers, who were someone's sweet grandmother who baked cookies ( you know the ones you only see on tv or read about) only they were real. Down the back road, there was the pig farm, and the creepy old farmer who used to come up every night to take our "pig bucket" slops from the grill to his pigs.
Now at the time, even though it was a teenage facility, there was never more than 70 residents at a time there, male to female ration about 5:1. I was one of the youngest there at 15, and I was one of three black females at the time.
The Staff: Donna Chadoba, Eddie Cinisomo,Wayne O'Connell, Tony Parks, interns, Vito Tomanelli and Robert Wragg. There was another female, but i can't remember her name.
I was there for about 15 months and during that time, they were building a new facility, now known as Far Rockaway) now my time upstate, had it's good times and it's times. I wore a sig, i wore a stocking cap, i was on something called "poison patrol", i sat on the chair, i sat on the bench, and i was never, ever a coordinator. I sat in extended groups, i sat in marathons, but you something as a teenaged girl, although it was hard, i never felt more love than i did when i was in that facility. When we had pool parties, when we had dances, when we performed on stage for the community, when we went to the community church, and although my real family wasn't with me for X-mas, i was with my family.
The best years of my life were spent in a treatment facility and i made some mistakes, but you know what, DV saved my life. DV made me see things, not at the time, but years later, when i went on to have my own family that if i hadn't entered DV, things for me now just wouldn't be where they are.
I have friends that i made in DV that i still have to this day. Friends that call, hang out with and have grown up with.
Now, as far as the changes, yeah, DV has evolved over the years, i've seen that. I've actually been to a facility (fox run) a few years ago, and it's much different. But you gotta realize that times have changed and the epidemic has changed. You can't treat the underlying anymore, you have to treat the epidemic.
It's funny, when i went to re-entry in FR, I saw the change. Not only was DV dealing with drug abusers, users, or whatever, but they were of a different breed. We're talking crack. There's a difference between treating straight cocaine addict or heroin addict, which DV primarily treated when i was there, than a crackhead, the worst type of SA. You can't treat the underlying problem with a crackhead because an underlying problem doesn't exist.
Now to talk about Frank. I knew Frank personally, and I hated him. But i respected him. I respected what he had done in SL. The recidivism rate in SL was almost nil. And Frank had a lot to do with that. if you talk to anyone from SL or Parksville who was there during Frank's tenure, they will tell you, he was not the person he ended up being.
Yeah, he had an anger problem that totally got worse over the years. I remember seeing him some years ago after graduating, I was at 40th St., visiting Kenny Catoe (Anyone who has been in DV knows KC) and Frank came up to me and said, i know you, i remember you, how's your boyfriend? I looked at him and thought, damn, he wasn't around when i split (one of many times) with a guy from Re-entry), how would he have known that? Turns out, that he kept tabs on me when i was in re-entry and thougth that me and this guy was still together.
Frank, in the last years, i had heard had become a very nasty man. But if you knew him back then, you would understand.
alot of the staff that are there that had been there for the longest time, has had to adjust to many different changes in DV. Changes that are normal for the evolution of time. Times change, people change and it's sometimes, especially for those who went through the program in the 70's and became counselors and are used to the DV was.
I'm sorry that anyone who has had a bad experience with DV had it, but if you were a resident, think about this, if you hadn't gone to DV, even if it was just to Detox, where would you be now.
I'm not sure what this all means, but i saw this and felt that i had to add my 2 cents, to defend what was, not what is.
A Proud DAYTOPIAN
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Still drinking the Kool-Aid, after all these years...
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you know what? Not everyone had a bad experience with DV. You need to take a look at yourself and see why you did.
I admit that there were some things that were a little over the top, but you're talking about a different time, different epidemic and different training.
A TC is not only governed by the founders, but also by law. At the time places like Synanon was founded, there were no governing laws. yes, it was all about brainwashing, brain shocking, or whatever you want to call it, to make a person get off drugs. Ever see the movie " A Clockwork Orange?" Stanley Kubrick had it right. That's what happened back then. There were no laws governing what was supposed to be done.
It's much easier to treat the underlying problem of the epidemic. case in point, when you go into a treatment facility such as the intake facility where you stay for 3 or more weeks, you have detoxed whatever drugs are in your system. DV and other TC's took that a step further. They then treated the underlying problem. Whether it was family problems, peer pressure, etc.
As i stated before, when i was in DV, the main addition was heroin. Older people addicted to heroin for so many years that a TC was there last hope. And it worked.
Today, people are paroled to TC's, people use it as a way to stay out of jail and don't put in the time they need to deal with all the other bullshit that comes with dealing with the problem.
I've seen how DV changed to the times. I've seen how they have to treat the crackhead as opposed to the heroin addict. You can't apply a philosophy of "responsible, Love, & concern or "act as if" to a crackhead who is trying to stay out of jail. Those are a crackhead's manipulation tactics. That's all they know.
So DV and other TC's have had to change their ways of thinking and treatment. And yes, even in terms of terminology, they've had to change.
For example: The DV philosophy, used to be begin "we are" Not I. They changed to back in 86 because of the new wave of abusers coming in, crackheads. What used to be called members are now called residents. Do you see my point, idiot. It's about changing the way you treat the person. You can't treat a crackhead the same way you treat a heroin addict. It doesn't work. Heroin addicts actually have a heart.
Now you want to talk about staff. I recall reading someone saying that the reason old school staff are trying to push out the more educated is because they are afraid. And to a point, that person was correct. They are afraid of seeing DV change in a way that's not about the mission. The mission was and still is solid. But laws change and epidemics change.
Hep C is what DV used to have to deal with heroin addicts. Now they also have to deal AIDS. There are all kinds of laws now that says what you can and can't do with someone who had AIDS.
I'll never forget the first person who was diagnosed with AIDS at DV. His name was Sammy. He became the poster boy ( for lack of a better term) but he changed the way DV thought in terms of treating someone who was ill.
Look, i'm not saying that DV and other TC's are the greatest. You get out what you put in. I did my time old school style and obviously had a better experience than you young bucks did, but take it for what it's worth. Look at this way. People in the social services industry are not in it for the money. They go into it believing that they can make a difference. What they find is that the system is so screwed up that they're just one little insignificant cog on that big wheel of bullshit that is every evolving to more bullshit and they see that after time they can do one of two things, go with the program or get out. That's my advice to you, accept the change, chalk it up to a bad experience and move on. One more thing.
So am i still drinking the Kool-AID? Damn right, because i don't have to deal with the bullshit that you spout about your bad experiences and why you couldn't get with the program. So, are u still smoking crack? and tell me, how long was it before your first relapse?
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NEWS BULLETIN: Whooter, the person who sent you to this link, WORKS FOR ASPEN EDUCATION. See below quote from Whooter admitting his "fiduciary duty" to Aspen Education. Whooter is an industry troll and not "just a regular parent" as he would try to make people believe.
When is this supposed to take place?
Well the announcement takes place after the lawyers sign off on the deal, but they usually wait until the transfer is ready to take place.
The legal transfer typically takes place at the beginning of the new quarter (or fiscal year).
So based on this I would expect the announcement would come at anytime and the transfer could occur on Tuesday October 1, 2007 or early January 2008.
...
How is it that you are in a position to have knowledge about the acquisition of HLA?
I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as Tipping
On 2005-03-27 08:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"you know what? Not everyone had a bad experience with DV. You need to take a look at yourself and see why you did.
I admit that there were some things that were a little over the top, but you're talking about a different time, different epidemic and different training.
A TC is not only governed by the founders, but also by law. At the time places like Synanon was founded, there were no governing laws. yes, it was all about brainwashing, brain shocking, or whatever you want to call it, to make a person get off drugs. Ever see the movie " A Clockwork Orange?" Stanley Kubrick had it right. That's what happened back then. There were no laws governing what was supposed to be done.
It's much easier to treat the underlying problem of the epidemic. case in point, when you go into a treatment facility such as the intake facility where you stay for 3 or more weeks, you have detoxed whatever drugs are in your system. DV and other TC's took that a step further. They then treated the underlying problem. Whether it was family problems, peer pressure, etc.
As i stated before, when i was in DV, the main addition was heroin. Older people addicted to heroin for so many years that a TC was there last hope. And it worked.
Today, people are paroled to TC's, people use it as a way to stay out of jail and don't put in the time they need to deal with all the other bullshit that comes with dealing with the problem.
I've seen how DV changed to the times. I've seen how they have to treat the crackhead as opposed to the heroin addict. You can't apply a philosophy of "responsible, Love, & concern or "act as if" to a crackhead who is trying to stay out of jail. Those are a crackhead's manipulation tactics. That's all they know.
So DV and other TC's have had to change their ways of thinking and treatment. And yes, even in terms of terminology, they've had to change.
For example: The DV philosophy, used to be begin "we are" Not I. They changed to back in 86 because of the new wave of abusers coming in, crackheads. What used to be called members are now called residents. Do you see my point, idiot. It's about changing the way you treat the person. You can't treat a crackhead the same way you treat a heroin addict. It doesn't work. Heroin addicts actually have a heart.
Now you want to talk about staff. I recall reading someone saying that the reason old school staff are trying to push out the more educated is because they are afraid. And to a point, that person was correct. They are afraid of seeing DV change in a way that's not about the mission. The mission was and still is solid. But laws change and epidemics change.
Hep C is what DV used to have to deal with heroin addicts. Now they also have to deal AIDS. There are all kinds of laws now that says what you can and can't do with someone who had AIDS.
I'll never forget the first person who was diagnosed with AIDS at DV. His name was Sammy. He became the poster boy ( for lack of a better term) but he changed the way DV thought in terms of treating someone who was ill.
Look, i'm not saying that DV and other TC's are the greatest. You get out what you put in. I did my time old school style and obviously had a better experience than you young bucks did, but take it for what it's worth. Look at this way. People in the social services industry are not in it for the money. They go into it believing that they can make a difference. What they find is that the system is so screwed up that they're just one little insignificant cog on that big wheel of bullshit that is every evolving to more bullshit and they see that after time they can do one of two things, go with the program or get out. That's my advice to you, accept the change, chalk it up to a bad experience and move on. One more thing.
So am i still drinking the Kool-AID? Damn right, because i don't have to deal with the bullshit that you spout about your bad experiences and why you couldn't get with the program. So, are u still smoking crack? and tell me, how long was it before your first relapse?
"
Firstly, let me begin by saying that you are awfully presumptuous referring to me as a "young buck" who had a "bad experience" at Daytop.
Let me educate you to the facts: I was a counselor at Daytop, never a resident. I am classically educated with degrees in Psychology and Sociology and an MBA in progress, so step down off your soapbox and don't talk to me as if I were one of your peers.
Secondly, having worked there, and not viewing the modality through rose-colored glasses, as you seem to, I know for a fact that Daytop is engaged in many illegal, unethical and immoral activities. This is not my opinion, this is fact.
Thirdly, go tell some of the victims of this place that it's ok what Frank Lanza did to them and that if they "knew him back then," they "would understand." Tell them they should have understanding about Frank's behavior and that it is ok to be abused, belittled, humiliated and put on "the chair" outside, overnight in winter. Or that it's ok (or legal)to suffer through full body searches by untrained "staff" in filthy rooms ("Pick up your balls. Open your ass"). Tell them that it's okay that there's a confessed murderer bunking in the rack next to them because it brings funds to the facility.
Fourthly, if you "spent the best days of (your) life in a treatment center," then you have had no life.
Conclusion: You are still drinking the Kool-Aid after all these years.
Sad, yes. True, indeed.
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you know what? Not everyone had a good experience with DV. You need to take a look at yourself and see why you did.
I admit that there were some things that were not entirely over the top, but you're talking about a different time, different epidemic and different training.
A TC is governed by the founders, but not by law. At the time places like Synanon was founded, there were no concern for governing laws. yes, it was all about brainwashing, brain shocking, or whatever you want to call it, to make a person get off drugs. Ever see the movie " A Clockwork Orange?" Stanley Kubrick had it right. That's what happened back then. There was no enforcement of the laws governing what was supposed to be done.
It's much easier to fuck w people if you believe there's an epidemic. case in point, when you go into a treatment facility such as the intake facility where you stay for 3 or more weeks, you have detoxed whatever drugs are in your system. DV and other TC's took that a step further. They then fucked w/ these poor dope sick, addeled soulds by convincing them of some insidious raft of underlying problems. Whether it was family problems, peer pressure, etc. We and we alone (the high priests, practitioners and adherants of stepcraft) know how to manage and control every area of an individual's life and how best to structure society. If only we had a little more coercive power to get everybody working their program!
As i stated before, when i was in DV, the main confesion was heroin. Older people addicted to heroin for so many years that a TC was our last hope of retaining control, as they were about the mature out. And it worked! Just take a couple of months and read over all the new powers and funding granted to us through the federal, state and local faith based initiatives, forced piss testing. Shit, we've even got government funding to spread obvious the propaganda that marijuana is medically worthless and highly addictive.
Today, people are paroled to TC's, we use it as a way to prolong the threat of jail indefinitely
I've seen how DV changed the PR to the times. I've seen how they have to pretend there's an epidemic of crackheads as opposed to the heroin addicts. You can't apply a philosophy of "responsible, Love, & concern or "act as if" to a crackhead who is trying to stay out of jail. They're already ahead of the junkies and they just don't give a fuck.
So DV and other TC's have had to change their ways of thinking and treatment. And yes, even in terms of terminology, they've had to change.
For example: The DV philosophy, used to be begin "we are" Not I. They changed to back in 86 because of the new wave of abusers coming in, crackheads. What used to be called members are now called residents. Do you see my point, idiot. It's about changing the way you sell the program. You can't treat a crackhead the same way you treat a heroin addict. It doesn't work. Heroin addicts actually have a heart.
[OMFG!! :eek: I can't even satirize this. I feel sorry for anyone who comes to you thinking you care about them, view them as a person worthy of dignity and respect and that you have good advice for them re: how to get off crack!]
That which does not kill you can make you stronger, but I really never needed to be this strong.
Scott Wagner
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Firstly, let me begin by saying that you are awfully presumptuous referring to me as a "young buck" who had a "bad experience" at Daytop.
(obviously you had a bad experience whether you worked there or was a resident or you would still be working there. I'm going to assume that you left on your own free will either because of money, seeing things you didn't like, etc.. hence my words, bad experience and just to clarify, my term of "young buck" doesn't refer to your age, but at the time in which you were affiliated with DV. If I'm not mistaken you said you worked with DV in 95. I had been affiliated with DV since '82, which meant to ME that i'm closer to the old school style of the way things were done than you were. If that offended you, then i apologize.)
Let me educate you to the facts: I was a counselor at Daytop, never a resident. I am classically educated with degrees in Psychology and Sociology and an MBA in progress, so step down off your soapbox and don't talk to me as if I were one of your peers.
(Well, i'm proud that you're educated. I'm not on a soap box because i have never experienced DV or any TC as an employee, but hell, they must be doing something right classically educated employees are still there)
Secondly, having worked there, and not viewing the modality through rose-colored glasses, as you seem to
( of course i'm going to see some things through rose colored glasses, i lived it, at some point couldn't see outside it, it was all i knew at the time and i can't apologize for that),
I know for a fact that Daytop is engaged in many illegal, unethical and immoral activities. This is not my opinion, this is fact. .
(and just out of curiosity, what if anything have you done about it? or did you just let injustices keep happening until you bailed?)
Thirdly, go tell some of the victims of this place that it's ok what Frank Lanza did to them and that if they "knew him back then," (never ever did i say what he did was right. That never came out in any of my writing. Maybe you are just too blinded by your hatred of Frank, DV or TC's in general that you need to read between the lines of something that i didn't say)
they "would understand." Tell them they should have understanding about Frank's behavior and that it is ok to be abused, belittled, humiliated and put on "the chair" outside, overnight in winter. Or that it's ok (or legal)to suffer through full body searches by untrained "staff" in filthy rooms ("Pick up your balls. Open your ass"). Tell them that it's okay that there's a confessed murderer bunking in the rack next to them because it brings funds to the facility.
(I personally hated body searches. I didn't agree with them and there were a few times i refused to do them. My alternative was to not be admitted to the program. Look, being subjected to a full body search is/was never okay by someone who didn't know what they were doing. It was a lesson in humility that happened once. When you got there. If you happened to leave (AWOL) and come back, yes, it was done again. For protection of all. You don't see it that way and probably never will. But you know what, the person getting screened has done worse on the streets using drugs, so WTF)
Fourthly, if you "spent the best days of (your) life in a treatment center," then you have had no life.
When i was in DV, it was rare that they accepted anyone who committed a violent crime, who was court-ordered. The problem is that it's the norm now for a criminal to be court-ordered to a TC if they have drug abuse in their history. Whose fault is that, the TC's).
Look as i said before, TC's are not for everyone and definitely not for today's drug users. Everyone who enters a TC seems to be coddled now, even down to the term "hard core drug user" to "substance abuser", what the hell is that all about. and if crackheads and methamp users aren't the worse users, tell me who is?
Tell me something, are you still in social services industry, or did you give it up because you were fighting a losing battle?
Conclusion: You are still drinking the Kool-Aid after all these years.
(your conclusion is based on nothing, so i won't even comment on that further. other than to say you have the right to your opinion as i have the right to mine. You see it from a clinical standpoint and i see it from someone whose lived through it. Yeah, we are going to see it differently)
Sad, yes. True, indeed.
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"The nature of psychological compulsion is such that those who act under constraint remain under the impression that they are acting on their own initiative. The victim of mind-manipulation does not know that he is a victim. To him the walls of his prison are invisible, and he believes himself to be free. That he is not free is apparent only to other people. His servitude is strictly objective. "
--Brave New World Revisited, Aldous Huxley, 1958 I don't believe in Jesus.
--John Lennon, British songwriter and member of "The Beatles"
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I stand corrected. You're drinking the Kool-Aid through a CRAZYSTRAW.
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On 2005-03-27 11:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
and if crackheads and methamp users aren't the worse users, tell me who is?
Remember what you said earlier about crackheads having no heart (as opposed to heroin junkies, who obviously do)?
You've been in this TC culture a damned long time. Don't you remember anything?? That is precisely what we were all told about heroin users (who were all instantly addicted, according to the propaganda, just like the propaganda about crack/meth users today)
Here's some reality based, fact based writing on the actual state of meth use, addiction and treatment from a bona fied, qualified investigative journalist.
http://www.alternet.org/authors/4576/ (http://www.alternet.org/authors/4576/)
Not that you'll actually go to the trouble of reading anything that might threaten your faith. But you're not the only one reading.
Oh, and btw, some of my friends are practicing meth and/or h users. Some are virtuosos. I don't approve/disapprove, condone/condemn, endorse/indict everything about any one of my friends. But one thing they all have in common, they all have heart.
Web pages are like babies -- creation involves a level of enthusiasm that does not necessarily carry over into maintenance.
--Joe Chew
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okay, i agree with everything you said. Have a pleasant day with your rose colored views of the world.
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On 2005-03-27 12:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"okay, i agree with everything you said. Have a pleasant day with your rose colored views of the world."
There you have have it.
We've run the gamut: From righteous indignance to patronizing to projection (without ever having made a coherent argument).
At Daytop that's called "dopefiend mentality." Glad to see you still have it after 23 long years of reprogramming.
Nice to see the program "works if you work it."
My suggestion is to go back and "Work it (again), you're worth it."
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I went to the website you suggested. Almost every article that i have read there states the same things that i have in my earlier posts and have agreed with:
examples:
The article Hope for Meth addicts states that treatment methods are outdated. As I stated, you can't treat a heroin addict the same way you treat a crackhead or meth user.
the Article more meth mania and coerced treatment basically say the same thing. You can't treat someone for "substance abuse" that doesn't want to be treated. Putting someone in treatment instead of jail is just a way of keeping them off the streets. They're not serious about their treatment, they don't want to spend time in jail.
That's what i said a number of times.
I never said that anything that DV or another TC did was correct, but i went through it and it helped me. So if i'm brainwashed, so be it.
And to the poster who thinks i need to work it again....
yeah, well, maybe....
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bump this thread...
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::bump::
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I know what you say. I was in Daytop in ny .i am damaged goods. [email protected]
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On 2005-06-04 20:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I know what you say. I was in Daytop in ny .i am damaged goods. [email protected]"
Can you tell us some of your experiences that lead you to this conclusion?
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On 2005-02-11 02:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"This whole fucking website is a cult run by free masons and anti-christs and nazis. Look up Fager's portfolio :smokin: "
Zieg Heil!
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Hi I am Vito Tomanelli from the article. I was an intern at the Millbrook facility from 1984-85. Many great experiences and emotional memories that will last forever. I miss all those days at Millbrook! Email me to discuss many memorable experiences. Otiv78@aol
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On 2006-02-07 16:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hi I am Vito Tomanelli from the article. I was an intern at the Millbrook facility from 1984-85. Many great experiences and emotional memories that will last forever. I miss all those days at Millbrook! Email me to discuss many memorable experiences. Otiv78@aol"
Whatever, idiot.
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paul, go get laid
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Dickface, that was not my response. If it was I would have made it clear.
Paul St. John
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paul, go get laid
This is the self-proclaimed MSW "licensed therapist" :roll: that posted on another Daytop thread. This guy is a phony and a liar. In other words, a typical Daytop flunkie.
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i know wayne oconnell that was mentioned. he is managing director at my daytop.
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It worked for me-I had been brainwashed by dope, the media and its "everything will be all right if we just buy something and pretend to care attitude" and my own fears and unrealistic expectations of life, which doesn't owe anybody a thing. Show me a professor who has ever actually cured someone of an addiction problem and I'll show you a professor that is a liar-and probably out the twenty dollars he got hustled out of in the process. Who is better educated in the ways of an addict than another addict? When I graduated the program I couldn't wait to get out of there-and that is a good thing-I was growing-not sucking off some well intentioned rationalization of my addiction that fed into its continuation. You didn't like treatment? well guess what -you wouldn't like a heart transplant but it could save your life-and Daytop saved mine. You ran from it because you failed it-not because it failed you.
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This Obit was posted in "Is there any relationship btwn Synanon and Daytop?" thread. The quote from the Psychology Today article presents Daytop's philosophy in a particulcarly telling way.
In an influential 1968 article in Psychology Today, Dr. Bassin described the organization's no-nonsense attitude:
''The psychological basis for treating drug addicts at Daytop Village differs radically from conventional methods,'' he wrote. ''Neither punishing the addict by jailing him for extended periods nor slobbering over him with sympathy and pity has shown any great rehabilitative value. Nor has it helped to regard the addict as a sick person, a 'medical problem,' as some well-meaning folk put it. The Daytop philosophy is to consider the addict as an adult acting like a baby: childishly immature, full of demands, empty of offerings.''
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No free lunch.
In an audio account of Nancy Reagan’s visit to Daytop, a luncheon lady (of the society variety) acquainted with Monsignor O’Brien tells of making the introduction, taking Reagan up to Swan Lake, writing a forgotten letter to Jim Baker… and takes credit for “Starting the whole thing” ( inspiring the series of events that led to D.A.R.E.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxuehAdeNH8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxuehAdeNH8)
Just say, “No”