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Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) => Topic started by: Anonymous on December 06, 2006, 12:07:29 AM

Title: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 06, 2006, 12:07:29 AM
I got better with the help of wwasp.
Title: Paradise Cove - Samoa 12-30-95 to 6-15-97
Post by: Anonymous on December 11, 2006, 07:34:55 AM
I was in Samoa for 18 months. I came to this website because I had another dream about that place last night. It's amazing that a place like that coulld have such a horrifying impact on one's mind. I'm sure that the dreams will persist for the rest of my life, and it's unfortunate that there's nothing I can do to change that. I've seen therapists, tried to accept it and move on, and other things, but nothing makes the images leave my head.

Anyone out there have this type of problem? I have nightmares of being back on the beach, knowing that I don't belong there, but I'm trapped on limbo. They've got me eating rice, hot water, and boiled lamb. People from Aufaga Village are throwing rocks at us from up above. It's just a terrible dream that I can't shake.

I'd love to talk to some old friends of mine, or anyone else who was there. My name is Chris Osborn and my e-mail address is [email protected]. Feel free to contact me. My feeling is, the only way I might truly be able to get these visions and nightmares to leave would be to find others who understand what I went through. Also, I feel that one day I'll need to return to Samoa and find that piece of me that was stolen.

I hope all of you who survived are living well. I also hope to hear from some of you
Title: Thank you
Post by: Anonymous on December 11, 2006, 06:53:47 PM
My son is at TB right now.   After all the research after sending him there, he is coming home. Yes, I am to blame for not looking more into these programs before he left.  He will have a new beginning at home and I, as well, with parenting.   I thank all former students that have spoke out about this abuse.   If it wasnt for you, I would not be going this week to pick up my son.   After I have him home, the school does not know yet, I will post my experience as a parent and my son as a student.  There has to be something done about these schools.  

A Mom
Title: WWASP Experiences
Post by: WWASP Bandido on December 19, 2006, 01:56:54 PM
Shawn Treadway says:

Quote
The place was a shithole, I never knew what "scabies" was till i went there. I was blessed to never get that nasty shit, but i was one of few. I remember they ran out of toilet paper there for like 2 weeks, it was a bit interesting to say the least. Restaining kids was beating them in my eyes, it was more than unneeded force, Although I remember I had this one kid who was in Diligence family... kid was 17 and was one of those kids who had large family breeding on his side. He was a monster, and not meaning fat, meaning 6'4 240 lbs and in the best shape I could imagine. It tooke Luke and Jade to restrain this kid. Jade-Admin./ ex golden glove boxer, great shape for his age, and Luke-Admin. also in really good shape, both of them were monsters compared to 99% of the kids. This kid though gave them a run for their money, at seventeen. I had respect for him.

As for details, and crediting what people say... i have read around the site somewhat, its all true pretty much. Room Restriction, or R&R as we called it, was rediculous. Laying a kid on his stomach, with his legs and hands behins his back, while his chin had to lay on concrete floor for 90 % of the waking day. That was sad, then if you got restrained while you were in that position, restrained, meaning forearm to the back of your head and neck, while a oversized wieght lifting dick, puts his knee along with all his wieght into your spine. At 14, and 150 lbs its a bit scary. I got mal nutrition while I was down there. I was 16, 6'0 and 147 lbs it was gross. I was way to skinny, being a fat kid before I went there I never knew that could be a problem, hahah. But that wait was soon lost and and ribs were soon to show.

Things I have to give the program credit for, believe me very few things. The Spanish thing was a fucking pain in the ass when you first get there. Who in their right mind thinks they can take an American with no knowledge of the Spanish Language whatsoever, and give him three days to learn what he needs to? But because of that, it creates a sense of urgency to learn it so you can communicate with your friends, and the staff. I learned the whole language in like six months, read, write, and speak. I still speak it to the day, which is a good thing. One thing I had a problem with was not being able to speak English, it was very rare where we could do that. We learned their language, we spoke, shouldn't we be able to speak both?

I fucking hated how they hung that fucking hell high impact over our heads. Bunch of fucking fascists using fear to control us. I lived my first 9 of my 18 months there petrified of a place that I had only heard about. I was never a big trouble maker, Jade taught me not to cause trouble my first day, when I mouthed off to him. But holding something over someone and scare them with it, to get them to do what you want, is fucking wrong. I learned how to understand and manipulate a system down there flawlessly. I learned how to talk my way out of anything, which is good in some ways, being that after the military I want to be a lawyer, or a lobyist.

All in all, I dont blame my parents for sending me there, they thought it was right for a angry 14 year old kid with bad grades, and beginning to smoke pot. I get that, but what i dont forgive pops for is, once I told him what the place was really like, he didn't listen, figuered I was exagerating or making it all up. My mom knew there was no bullshit in what I was saying, and was the one who got me out of there. What I say now, parents I think have a responsibility to work it out with their children. Not send them off for someone else to do the job. I wouldnt say the place haunts me today, life has moved on, and its in the past. But when I first got out, culture shock, difficulty adjusting, nightmares, were a daily routine. I didnt know how to act, I had been so good at being fake, and appearing as the standard mold for the program that I wasn't to sure about who I was. My friends noticed it, but I eventually came around.

Also I thought since I had a year and a half of high school taken away from me, I had a need to make up for it. I was worse after the program then before. I never ended up in jail, or anything like that, but I did drugs, got in fights, and made "non-working" decisions as those creeps used to say. I found myself and grew up in time. I just had to do it and learn on my own, I couldnt be molded into it.
Title: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on February 17, 2007, 02:55:34 PM
Jesus. Greetings from Samoa!

What pisses me off more than any other TBS type is TBSs overseas. It's hard enough to regulate and leave them from your home country. Abroad, there is no recourse! Asshole parents.

Shit, at least I could split mine.  After two failed attempts, third time was the charm. Then I had to hole up for a week. I got lucky--a single Mom took me in and I watched her kids while she worked. Then she drove me down the mountain.

Funny thing was that I split--knew instinctively I had to get out--but was still brainwashed! Funny, that.

Well-maybe not.
Title: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Antigen on March 20, 2007, 01:16:52 AM
Holy crow, you successfully split from Samoa? How long ago and do feel free to hold forth w/ stories. When we get the search function working again, I'll dig up the escapers guide thread (hopefully, assuming I didn't pooch it when I ungracefully blew out TSW's old posts).

Welcome, welcome.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Shlei on December 19, 2008, 06:21:22 PM
It changed my life, My life is solid and I left unscathed. I also made great friendships.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on December 19, 2008, 07:13:54 PM
We make great friends where ever we go.

A question for you...

If a program 'fixes' 10 people's lives

and in the meantime

the program harms 3 peoples lives

is the program still 'good' ?

What is and who determines the level of 'acceptable' collateral damage?
Title: Re: Thank you
Post by: Miss Antsy Pam on December 22, 2008, 10:04:22 AM
Quote from: "TB Mom"
My son is at TB right now.   After all the research after sending him there, he is coming home. Yes, I am to blame for not looking more into these programs before he left.  He will have a new beginning at home and I, as well, with parenting.   I thank all former students that have spoke out about this abuse.   If it wasnt for you, I would not be going this week to pick up my son.   After I have him home, the school does not know yet, I will post my experience as a parent and my son as a student.  There has to be something done about these schools.  

A Mom

GO MOM....from one parent to another.  I pulled my son from Casa by the Sea after 60 days...shortly after the raid on Dundee Ranch in Costa Rica. I wish there was something like these forums to help me back in 2003, but very little was know at that time.  You might want to visit the forums at antiwwasp.com...the have sub sections for each school.  There you can read things specific to TB.

When I pulled him, it was like a planned military extraction.  I NEVER alerted the school that I was coming, but the American Consulate in Tiajuana had copies of my passport, my itinerary, and a sworn statement about the school.  If the school even gets a "whiff" that you might pull your son, they will send him to another facility BEFORE you even get there. The letters between my son and me were laced with code words that would mean NOTHING to anyone other than the 2 of us.  Still...he did not know when I was to arrive.

A few tips...
make sure you tuition payment is up to date...I went the day BEFORE my next payment was due.  I heard outrageous stories about parents having to pay thousands of dollars to get the kid out.

BE CALM - this is really important!  When I walked into the office at about 8:30am on a Monday, they asked me what I wanted.  I told them that I was there to pick up my son.  Then they started calling other people into the office..big burly men!  They were telling me all the great progress my kid was making and that I was going to undermine ALL THEIR hard work..yada yada.  I held my temper as long as I could.  They asked me to wait until my son's family rep arrived for the day.  I said okay, but in the meantime....GO GET MY KID!!  I was screaming at them by now...it had already been over an hour.  I was scared but did not let it show.  Whatever they said to me...I just repeated GO GeT MY KID!!!  The family rep arrived and, of course, told me that I was a BAD parent for removing him from the facility and that he would then know that my son "OWNED ME"  They said he is just manipulating me.  I told them my decision to remove him did not require ME to explain ANYTHING to THEM.  GO GET MY KID!!!

Finally...after almost 2 hours 2 big guys escorted Dylan to the office - they told him he was being sent to TB!!!  Once he saw me standing there...silent tears rolled down his hollow cheeks..he had lost 25 lbs in 2 months.  I demanded his passport, then I grabbed him and the passport and we were out of there.  Please note:  I went to pick him up on a Monday...right after his first seminar (Discovery) over the weekend.  He was crying hysterically and said he didn't think he could leave...wanted me to take him back.  

Less than 1 mile away from the school, we were pulled over by a Jeep full of Mexican Federalies toting automatic weapons and pointing them at us.  I have never been so scared in my life!!  I thought we were dead for sure!  Apparently they were looking for drugs and they inspected my vehicle...all the while pointing guns at us.  After about 30 mins or so...they let us go.  I took off like a bat outta hell and headed for the border!  Dylan was still crying and so confused...he didn't know if he wanted to stay or go with me.  He said that he couldn't leave all the other kids in his family.

I could not even take him home right away.  He needed time to "decompress" so we went back to a hotel in San Diego for the night.  It was a harrowing experience to say the least.

Lastly....don't think they will remain grateful for their liberation.  Our time lasted only 2 weeks before he was doing the same crap.  He has continued to cause problems and was becoming verbally abusive to me again.  Despite all that, I stuck with him thru thick and thin..it has been a hard 5 years, but I NEVER EVER regret my decision to pull him.  Feel free to contact me if you need help planning an "extraction"  Email address is [email protected]...put WWASP in subject line

YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING...DO NOT QUESTION OR 2nd GUESS YOURSELF....you know it is the right thing to do.  Best of luck to you and I will hold you and your son in my  thoughts and prayers.  Godspeed to you!

~pam...another Mom :shamrock:
Title: Re: Thank you
Post by: Anonymous on December 22, 2008, 02:43:50 PM
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
I wish there was something like these forums to help me back in 2003, but very little was know at that time.

That's not accurate. Fornits was up well before then, and plenty of threads were on the topic of WWASPS.

viewforum.php?f=9&st=0&sk=t&sd=d&start=4500 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=9&st=0&sk=t&sd=d&start=4500)
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 22, 2008, 02:47:22 PM
Parents,
I have a much easier way to get your kid out of WWASPS. Stop paying them money!  They will send them home if you don't pay, I can guarantee that!
Title: Re: Thank you
Post by: Anonymous on December 22, 2008, 03:03:12 PM
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
Lastly....don't think they will remain grateful for their liberation.  Our time lasted only 2 weeks before he was doing the same crap.

This is probably the most outrageous thing I've seen a program parent post in a while. I'm not even going to respond to this, it speaks quite loudly all for itself.
Title: Re: Thank you
Post by: Miss Antsy Pam on December 22, 2008, 09:56:49 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
Lastly....don't think they will remain grateful for their liberation.  Our time lasted only 2 weeks before he was doing the same crap.

This is probably the most outrageous thing I've seen a program parent post in a while. I'm not even going to respond to this, it speaks quite loudly all for itself.

Hmm...let's see??  Does beating your mother up and leaving her with a black eye and broken ankle count as acceptable behavior?  What is the right number of time to get beat up by you son????  LMK the magic number.  The judge didn't seem to think so...."you did WHAT to YOUR mother??" He was even shunned in juvie...but I guess I deserved it huh?

Not worth my time...you would be considered extremely lucky to have 1/10th of the relationship I have with my son today.  You probably don't even HAVE kids!
Title: Re: Thank you
Post by: Miss Antsy Pam on December 22, 2008, 10:02:07 PM
Quote from: "ignorance is bliss"
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
I wish there was something like these forums to help me back in 2003, but very little was know at that time.

That's not accurate. Fornits was up well before then, and plenty of threads were on the topic of WWASPS.

http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewforum. ... start=4500 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=9&st=0&sk=t&sd=d&start=4500)

Excuse me..but I did not use my computer recreationally and hang out in forums or chat rooms....I worked!  Go ahead...judge me all you want.  Bottom line...I DID stick it our with him.....more than you will ever know!
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Miss Antsy Pam on December 22, 2008, 10:07:14 PM
Come on people....crucify me...have fun.  I posted MY TRUTH...that is the only thing that matters when it all boils down to the end.  Knock yourself out posting and bashing parents that are trying to help put an end to the industry.  You have no idea what I do or what contribution I make to this site and other anti BM sites...so have fun you spineless simpletons
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 22, 2008, 10:23:06 PM
Here is another example of program parent playing the victim card. This one actually has the gall to suggest the kid should thank her for being taken out of one of the most abusive programs that exist. So the kid gets put in a horrible program for two months, the mother finally realizes the obvious truth that an internet search would of revealed and go gets him. Then she complains that he isn't grateful for being released from the abusive program, and surprised it didn't improve his behavior.  Now this program parent has resorted to name calling like an angry child having a tantrum, how mature of them. Program parents are absolutely unbelievable sometimes.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 22, 2008, 10:36:30 PM
Oh for Christsakes give it a rest, frog-eyes!
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: FemanonFatal2.0 on December 22, 2008, 10:59:39 PM
I think Pam's situation is one of those unique ones, where you cant exactly blame them but you cant exactly excuse them either.

my question is where do you draw the line between helping and enabling? and when you do, how do you act upon self preservation without abandoning the child. I think a lot of parents get this equation backwards. They abandon their kids way before they ever consider actually helping them. I don't think this was the case of this program parent. I think she did try, and since her son has come home has continued to help him. The decision she made to send her kid away was only after an extreme situation which is actually rare among program parents. This doesn't excuse her of not doing the proper research, however her actions after she did come across the right information is what sets her apart from the rest... and I really don't think she implied that he should be grateful and act accordingly, I'm sure shes just a bit jaded and wished her son was more well behaved in general.

So there you go Che, soak it up. A real live exception to my theory, and I'm not too proud to admit it.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2008, 01:02:38 AM
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
Come on people....crucify me...have fun.  I posted the TRUTH...that is the only thing that matters when it all boils down to the end.  Knock yourself out posting and bashing parents that are trying to help put an end to the industry.  You have no idea what I do or what contribution I make to this site and other anti BM sites...so have fun you spineless simpletons
thank you on behalf of a kid whose parents never cared.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Che Gookin on December 23, 2008, 07:31:27 AM
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
I think Pam's situation is one of those unique ones, where you cant exactly blame them but you cant exactly excuse them either.

my question is where do you draw the line between helping and enabling? and when you do, how do you act upon self preservation without abandoning the child. I think a lot of parents get this equation backwards. They abandon their kids way before they ever consider actually helping them. I don't think this was the case of this program parent. I think she did try, and since her son has come home has continued to help him. The decision she made to send her kid away was only after an extreme situation which is actually rare among program parents. This doesn't excuse her of not doing the proper research, however her actions after she did come across the right information is what sets her apart from the rest... and I really don't think she implied that he should be grateful and act accordingly, I'm sure shes just a bit jaded and wished her son was more well behaved in general.

So there you go Che, soak it up. A real live exception to my theory, and I'm not too proud to admit it.

Well that's what happens when you don't listen to me more sweetie.

 :seg:
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2008, 09:27:08 AM
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
I think Pam's situation is one of those unique ones, where you cant exactly blame them but you cant exactly excuse them either.

my question is where do you draw the line between helping and enabling? and when you do, how do you act upon self preservation without abandoning the child. I think a lot of parents get this equation backwards. They abandon their kids way before they ever consider actually helping them. I don't think this was the case of this program parent. I think she did try, and since her son has come home has continued to help him. The decision she made to send her kid away was only after an extreme situation which is actually rare among program parents. This doesn't excuse her of not doing the proper research, however her actions after she did come across the right information is what sets her apart from the rest... and I really don't think she implied that he should be grateful and act accordingly, I'm sure shes just a bit jaded and wished her son was more well behaved in general.

So there you go Che, soak it up. A real live exception to my theory, and I'm not too proud to admit it.


Thanks for the exception....you people can't make me feel worse than I already do.  I agree with all of you...there is no excuse, I made a huge mistake that I will pay for the rest of my life!
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2008, 09:32:47 AM
Make sure you have all the facts before you judge....

1) my son was not kidnapped/escorted
2) I inspected the facility BEFORE he was placed
3) We looked at schools together
4) HE chose Casa over the other options we had researched TOGETHER

there...have at it
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: teachback on December 23, 2008, 09:37:31 AM
Great, it looks like you made the perfect life choice for your son, good for you......

Keep telling yourself whatever it takes for you to feel better about not raising your own kid.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2008, 09:40:30 AM
Quote from: "SDGS"
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
Come on people....crucify me...have fun.  I posted the TRUTH...that is the only thing that matters when it all boils down to the end.  Knock yourself out posting and bashing parents that are trying to help put an end to the industry.  You have no idea what I do or what contribution I make to this site and other anti BM sites...so have fun you spineless simpletons
thank you on behalf of a kid whose parents never cared.

You are most welcome....I am so sorry your parents never cared.  I am sorry for ALL the parents that didn't ,and still don't, CARE OR BELIEVE what was done to you.  That is a HUGE part of WHY I am here...to apologize for the parents that NEVER cared. I CARE otherwise I would just go my merry way and live in denial of what I did!  

At least I have the GUTS to put it out there and let everyone bash me
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2008, 09:48:36 AM
Quote from: "Teachback"
Great, it looks like you made the perfect life choice for your son, good for you......

Keep telling yourself whatever it takes for you to feel better about not raising your own kid.

I DID raise my own kid.  hmm  60 days out of 21 years..SURE I didn't raise my own kid???  99% of the people in our lives are ENVIOUS of the relationship I have with my son.  What he and I share is something so special and cherished by both of us.  That is all I need to "feel good" about myself.  We ALL make BAD choices at times, but what you DO after the bad choice is what matters MORE!
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2008, 09:51:43 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Teachback"
Great, it looks like you made the perfect life choice for your son, good for you......

Keep telling yourself whatever it takes for you to feel better about not raising your own kid.

I DID raise my own kid.  hmm  60 days out of 21 years..SURE I didn't raise my own kid???  99% of the people in our lives are ENVIOUS of the relationship I have with my son.  What he and I share is something so special and cherished by both of us.  That is all I need to "feel good" about myself.  We ALL make BAD choices at times, but what you DO after the bad choice is what matters MORE!
Denial aint' just a river in Egypt.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2008, 10:15:16 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
hmm  60 days
A lot can happen in a few weeks, let alone 60 days. I hope your kid wakes up to what you did to him one day and fucks you up for it.......

Arrogant scum!!!!
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on December 23, 2008, 10:20:43 AM
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
Come on people....crucify me...have fun.  I posted the TRUTH...that is the only thing that matters when it all boils down to the end.  Knock yourself out posting and bashing parents that are trying to help put an end to the industry.  You have no idea what I do or what contribution I make to this site and other anti BM sites...so have fun you spineless simpletons

I think you did the right thing. I can't tell you how many times I would daydream about my parents coming to pull me! What made you pull him? Was there suspicious behavior from the school itself?????
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2008, 04:18:25 PM
Quote from: "CCM girl 1989"
Was there suspicious behavior from the school itself?????
Yes.... My kid called at 3 in the morning saying something about some of the other kids shitting in the laundry bag... and something about them trying to jag another one of the kids in the ass with a baseball bat, stuff like that.... I thought to myself, "It's high time i got him out of there" and went and got him out the next day!
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2008, 04:26:45 PM
Quote from: "CCM girl 1989"
What made you pull him?
He got tired of pulling himself!
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2008, 04:52:03 PM
Quote from: "A few FACTS"
Make sure you have all the facts before you judge....

1) my son was not kidnapped/escorted
2) I inspected the facility BEFORE he was placed
3) We looked at schools together
4) HE chose Casa over the other options we had researched TOGETHER

there...have at it


You are one of the parents who were legitmately conned. You didn't have your son kidnapped--you didn't participate in that act of torment and crime. You made a mistake, but its not one that you need to feel like you are bad person over. A lot of the guests who post here do so merely to troll. Just ignore the nasty ones. They are trying to drive you off on purpose so that parents like you don't share your story. Don't let yourself be manipulated or emotionally hurt.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2008, 04:56:10 PM
Quote
They are trying to drive you off on purpose so that parents like you don't share your story.
Mighty presumptuous of you. In your world everyone must have an agenda, I guess. Maybe the trolls think it's funny to push the buttons ofasshole parents in denial. Fucking lousy know-it-alls like you make me wanna puke.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2008, 05:20:30 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote
They are trying to drive you off on purpose so that parents like you don't share your story.
Mighty presumptuous of you. In your world everyone must have an agenda, I guess. Maybe the trolls think it's funny to push the buttons ofasshole parents in denial. Fucking lousy know-it-alls like you make me wanna puke.

OK. Point taken. Pam, some of these guests are just "losers."
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: FemanonFatal2.0 on December 24, 2008, 04:23:26 AM
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote
They are trying to drive you off on purpose so that parents like you don't share your story.
Mighty presumptuous of you. In your world everyone must have an agenda, I guess. Maybe the trolls think it's funny to push the buttons ofasshole parents in denial. Fucking lousy know-it-alls like you make me wanna puke.

OK. Point taken. Pam, some of these guests are just "losers."


Uhh... I would NOT go there.

These people have different opinions than you, that does not make them losers. You must be pretty high on that bright shiny white horse your daddy bought you to think everyone who disagrees with you are just losers.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2008, 07:03:25 AM
Quote from: "FORNITS"
Quote from: "Guest"
hmm  60 days
A lot can happen in a few weeks, let alone 60 days. I hope your kid wakes up to what you did to him one day and fucks you up for it.......

Arrogant scum!!!!

Doubtful...and thanks for the arrogant scum comment
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Miss Antsy Pam on December 24, 2008, 07:29:03 AM
Quote from: "gfjsfgj"
Quote from: "A few FACTS"
Make sure you have all the facts before you judge....

1) my son was not kidnapped/escorted
2) I inspected the facility BEFORE he was placed
3) We looked at schools together
4) HE chose Casa over the other options we had researched TOGETHER

there...have at it


You are one of the parents who were legitmately conned. You didn't have your son kidnapped--you didn't participate in that act of torment and crime. You made a mistake, but its not one that you need to feel like you are bad person over. A lot of the guests who post here do so merely to troll. Just ignore the nasty ones. They are trying to drive you off on purpose so that parents like you don't share your story. Don't let yourself be manipulated or emotionally hurt.

This is just the beauty of "free speech" on an unmoderated forum.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion...I don't take any of the comments to personally.  Bottom line...I have to look at myself in the mirror every day....I now know what I did was a mistake, but I have done everything in my power to "right" the "wrong."  My son BEGS me to "let it go" and to stop apologizing...he knows how it went down.  

Does the opinion of these people of me matter MORE than what my son thinks about me???   NO NO  NO
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Miss Antsy Pam on December 24, 2008, 07:55:20 AM
Spending any more precious time on the "Pam bashing" thread has become counterproductive.  I need to spend more time on doing the REAL work that might just put an end to the whole "teen help industry"     Actions ALWAYS speaks louder than words and there is little reason for me to continue to give further time to this fodder.

By all means...continue on people...end of discussion for me.  I have WORK to do.

Best wishes to all and Happy Holidays...
Title: Fess up!
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2008, 09:51:26 AM
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
Spending any more precious time on the "Pam bashing" thread has become counterproductive.  I need to spend more time on doing the REAL work that might just put an end to the whole "teen help industry"     Actions ALWAYS speaks louder than words and there is little reason for me to continue to give further time to this fodder.

By all means...continue on people...end of discussion for me.  I have WORK to do.

Best wishes to all and Happy Holidays...
Anyone else get the feeling "Antsy Pam" is not for real? I get the feeling 'she' is really some regular impersonating a program parent who "saw the light," pulled her kid, and now wants to join in with the fight against programs? Fucking bullshit, I say. Why? Ok, my theory: The reasoning behind creating this false persona ("Antsy Pam"? Come ON, lol) was to make a point that not all program parents are bad through and through, etc. (There has recently been considerable debate along these lines on the Aaron Bacon thread; maybe Che wanted to try to further hammer his point home by creating this screen name and fictitious set of circumstances.) I've been on this forum a long time, and it wouldn't be the first time someone created a program parent identity in effort to make some point or other.
Title: Paranoia is not skin-deep
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2008, 10:58:52 AM
Hey, if you crimp the foil a little along the sides, and attach a razor blade tassle to the top, you might find that the signal comes in stronger.

Move your head S-L-O-W-L-Y from side to side... Can you hear me now?  :on phone:

 :birthday:
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2008, 11:00:55 AM
I think you might be right. It would explain why this parent's kid has never posted before. The "work" this parent keeps referring to is helping the secret group make a few new websites. There were plenty of websites online when she chose to send her kid to one of the most abusive facility in north america, and it didn't stop her. I notices she uses the fact she is "working" on this secret project, to elevate herself  above the rest of the posters on fornits.. most of whom have actually experienced programs, and have done plenty more than she will ever do to put an end to programs. Some people just need to feel good about themselves, and find this topic online and make it a new hobby. She has a sick child/mother relationship thing going on with Kevin over at anti wwasp.

But I think of it like this. What if my parents came onto fornits and described the program from their point of view? Their story would be wrong in so many ways. They simply don't know enough of what happened. They would sound just like any other program parent, desperately trying to grasp the reality of what goes on, at the same time elevating themselves to that of savior and future fighters of the industry for pulling me early. They would only be interested in the attention they receive... just like Sue scheff. Sorry proram parents, but you lost your credibility a long time ago. The day you chose to send your kid to a program.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2008, 11:49:12 AM
After looking at the anti-wwasp forum, I think this person is who she claims to be.

Still, her "only 60 days, yada yada.." stance annoys me a little.........
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2008, 06:36:22 PM
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
Quote from: "DAG"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote
They are trying to drive you off on purpose so that parents like you don't share your story.
Mighty presumptuous of you. In your world everyone must have an agenda, I guess. Maybe the trolls think it's funny to push the buttons ofasshole parents in denial. Fucking lousy know-it-alls like you make me wanna puke.

OK. Point taken. Pam, some of these guests are just "losers."


Uhh... I would NOT go there.

These people have different opinions than you, that does not make them losers. You must be pretty high on that bright shiny white horse your daddy bought you to think everyone who disagrees with you are just losers.

No, not people who disagree with me. People who say things just to "push" this person's buttons. Pretty pointless just to bully someone for the fun of it, not too nice, and counterproductive.  :soapbox:  :soapbox:  :timeout:  ::poke::  :jerry:
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: FemanonFatal2.0 on December 24, 2008, 06:44:21 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
She has a sick child/mother relationship thing going on with Kevin over at anti wwasp.

Look, Im going to tell you all this, not because I'm defending her but because I know from personal experience that Pam is a real parent and she is also devoting a lot of time, energy and money to the fight against institutionalized child abuse. She has even made a decent donation to Fornits in order to keep the hosting paid for this next year so while your bashing on her maybe you can thank her for the fact that she is paying for you to be able to bash her. lol

I will have you know, that I have not always been a Pam fan, for exactly the reason stated by our guest above. But I have come to realize that she has her reasons for still supporting antiwwasp and those are the same reasons she supports Fornits, even though most of you give her hell.

I honestly think there is a point where our judgments should be put aside, when someone is putting in an appreciated effort to warn parents AGAINST doing what she did, I think she is deserving of our cooperation. You dont have to like her in order to appreciate what she is doing, and you dont have to forgive every program parent to give this one that appreciation. I appreciate her, I don't necessarily like her, but I appreciate what she is doing for this cause.

Quote from: "Guest"
Sorry program parents, but you lost your credibility a long time ago. The day you chose to send your kid to a program.

We can all speculate on what drove a parent to make that arrogant, ignorant and selfish decision, I believe you all know how I feel about that. (http://http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26400) But I think when a parent comes across some information, and pulls their kid that is EXACTLY what we have been working to achieve and it is hypocritical for us to shun someone who did the right thing. Regardless of her generally misguided motives before she did end up doing the right thing, and thank god it was only 2 months. My mom left me to rot for 2 years, and believe me she discounted any information she came across, so my hat comes off to Pam for having the guts to admit she was wrong and go rescue her kid.

What you guys dont know is that being a mother to an violent child is way more than most can handle, and even despite that she still brought her son home. I know plenty of mothers who would keep their kids in a program simply because they were AFRAID to bring their child home. At least Pam was brave enough to do the right thing, even though that meant that she would have no escape from the multitude of problems that her son was soon to bring back into her home. That is MUCH more than any "program parent" would do... We all know they wouldn't even dream of doing what she did in her situation. So my view is that she IS different from the rest, maybe not in the beginning but she is making up for it and I think we should let her do that in peace.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: psy on December 24, 2008, 10:25:43 PM
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
Spending any more precious time on the "Pam bashing" thread has become counterproductive.  I need to spend more time on doing the REAL work that might just put an end to the whole "teen help industry"     Actions ALWAYS speaks louder than words and there is little reason for me to continue to give further time to this fodder.

By all means...continue on people...end of discussion for me.  I have WORK to do.

Bravo.  Now you're getting it (and faster than I did, for that matter).  This type of argument just goes round and round in a circle anyway. Besides, actions, as you say, do speak louder than words.

Merry Christmas, and to all you fornitscators too.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2008, 10:29:47 PM
You all are walking into the middle of a dysfunctional, codependent mother & son relationship. There is no "right" or "wrong" in a situation like this, and really nothing to be arguing about.

From her blog blog:


Quote
Dylan and I have been fighting for about 4-5 days before they started working on Monday.  Things have not been good between us since he got fired on August 22nd.  Dylan and I living together when he is not working has always been a recipe for disaster – throw in some MAJOR demolition/ construction hell at the house – and the unemployment situation and lack of HELP only makes me angrier at Dylan.  I am not angry that he got fired, I am angry that he is doing very little (ie: nothing) to FIND gainful employment.

I watched him do absolutely NOTHING for 2 weeks and it took everything in me not to want to kill him – I was advised to be a little understanding.  I took the advice because I felt it was right (it was), but inside I was still RAGING and FURIOUS, but trying to be nice, loving, supportive and understanding with him on the OUTSIDE.

Stettner has taught me the difference between being “care-frontational” and “kong-frontational.  This information has been very helpful to me and I feel I have made much progress along those lines in a over last 2-4 months.  It is always about being in a “teachable state.”  Sometimes I can be teachable; other times not so teachable. I find myself not so receptive because my resentments get in the way.  I have my demons to face and conquer and Dylan has his – we both have our worst issues over the same person – Dylan’s father (Taylor) – just different reasons for our fury.

Our respective issues with Taylor are wide and diverse and most definitely play themselves out when/while we are fighting or when the household is in a stage of unhappiness or unrest.  ALL of this baggage prevents us for leading happy and fulfilling lives.  We must face these issues if we are to survive without being real f’d up people for the rest of our lives.  I sincerely thought I had come to terms with the damage I endured while Taylor & I were together, but a single conversation with him in February of this year made me realize that “I” still have an array of unresolved issues that cause emotional pain for me and most surely affect my interactions with Dylan.

That is MY STUFF and MY work.  He is not responsible for the sins of the father.  He, on the other hand, has different issues with his Dad and HE will have to deal with those issues “outside” of the relationship he and I ENJOY- most of the time!  I am biased and I know it.

That is why we have Dr. Stettner – a TRAINED and highly skilled clinician & professional helping us sort this stuff out.  Clearly, Dylan and I have NO CLUE on how to do this, but we are relying on her to help us find our way OUT of a cycle we do not want to continue.  We would be “dead in the water” without her and WE LOVE HER AND HER FAMILY SO MUCH!!!

Dylan does not think he is an addict or an alcoholic – the rest of us think he is. You can turn a cucumber into a pickle, but once a pickle, you can never be the cucumber again. He says he can quit any time so I invited him to do so.  Dylan made a commitment to me that he would NOT DRINK for 90 days.  I said that is a brilliant idea – if he can go off booze for 3 months I am sure we will all see a much different Dylan.

We talked for about 3 hours yesterday and I explained my take & experience with AA/NA.  For the first 3-5 years I NEEDED to go to 5 meetings a week and live in a sober living house with 12 other women.  My brain has been engraved with all I learned from AA – whenever I am unsettled I go right back to all the things those people taught me.  13 years later, I still don’t make “big decisions” without the advice of my trusted advisors – you all know who you are.  When there is chaos, I go back to the beginning and make gratitude lists…whatever works.

The point being is that establishing a concrete AA/NA foundation made me solid and gave me a guide for living comfortably in my own skin.

Quote
We survived 21...what's next??? Just more crap!
With respect to Dylan....What he is doing now is not what we agreed to.  Yes, I am pissed because he had a total of 11-12 days of doing NOTHING – only had 1 requirement the WHOLE damn time – get your driver’s license renewed (I even gave him money so he could pay the fee in his birthday card) BEFORE it expired on his birthday which was Wednesday!
One thing…one simple thing to accomplish in 11 days…is that too much to ask?  I think NOT!  
He has plenty of time to go on joy rides up and down PCH to clear his head and get him out of the house.  How can his calendar be SO FILLED with appointments that he can’t get a simple DL renewed on time…when you have not worked for 11 days?  It was not as if he "didn’t know" because “I” was the one who harped on that topic for last 3 weeks. It is just so fricking irresponsible and I am sick of it.
The “Task Sheet” I gave him might as well be wall paper.  He sees no reason to even commence ANYTHING on that list unless he is EXPRESSLY told 1000 times –maybe more…to do so, just so he can have the satisfaction of pissing me off.  He has also suddenly developed some newly developed fear of spiders – since some/most of the projects he is to work on will involve clearing spider webs and other debris. Nothing on that sheet takes a rocket scientist to complete – he was supposed to have already started on the 4th and done by the weekend -  but he was dealing with  hangovers.
This is bull$hit and he has been "working me" all week trying to figure out how to get out of a weekly 2-3 hour session with Stettner AND then having to attend an AA/NA meeting EVERY Sunday after the session. That seems to interfere with HIS agenda.
 As long as he had a valid driver’s license and insurance, he was allowed to drive my bigger, more powerful, scooter to his appointments with her, but sorry…NO DL…no drive.  He made sure that any way available to actually attend his session - he sabotaged…I believe, on purpose.  I am sure he is only going to placate ME anyway.
He is a lazy slob!  He will call her with some crackpot story about “how unreasonable I am”.  He needs to focus his attention on finding a way to make his appointment with her tomorrow.  Maybe a call from her might nudge him back into reality and how he lives on EASY STREET!  I am tired of being taken advantage of or living in this house with the friction that is in direct proportion to his level of inertia.  His mere presence can make me want to smack him across the face…just venting…I will not lay a hand on him.  
I will talk more to Stettner on Tuesday, but I know she is going to get some stupid sob story  from him on WHY he can’t make his appointment Sunday...all bull$hit. He must see her ONCE a week in order to live here…period…no discussion.


Quote
Ever since the estrangement between Dylan and me that began last Monday and was “full blown” by Thursday, I have sent a text message to him every day telling him that  love him and that I pray God is watching over him and keeping him safe – I never received a response until about 3pm Sunday afternoon. In response to telling him that I love him…he said that “doesn’t help when I am fu*ked…Thanks though…”  Since I prepaid for Dylan to stay a week at the motel and check out is today, I figured that I would be hearing from him in some way shape or fashion once my money stopped flowing.  Now is when it REALLY gets hard and he get very personal & ugly!

The PRIMA IRY reason I paid for the 1 week rental at the motel was because I really didn’t feel like hearing all the guilt messages…”I am sleeping in the street, I am hungry, etc.”  I paid for my own peace of mind and to buy some time until I had time to sort things out.  I even offered to pay for another week just so I didn’t have to deal with the Dylan drama that I know is coming once he realizes how serious I am.

The days of my financial support of a lifestyle I don’t feel is neither productive nor appropriate for someone of Dylan’s age, is over.  I need about $1700/month to just break even on the upstairs unit while Dylan lives there paying NO RENT having a grand old time these past 6 months - “his money” is reserved for partying or partying supplies, a cleaning lady to clean his room and do his laundry, and basic utilities (DWP & Gas Co)…not cable with ALL movie channels, no internet connection, monthly cell phone bill.  He comes home after work with an entourage of 3-9 people almost every night! I go up there and it is like some frat house with people all over the place, never knowing who's face I might see in the morning. THIS WAS NOT WHAT I SIGNED ON FOR!!!

The phone calls and guilt trips have already started and I am an evil mother who is “pulling the rug out from under him.”  Told him this should not be a surprise as he has been warned many times since I came home from the hospital that he was on “thin ice with me” – whether or not he CHOSE to HEAR that is not my concern.
Pause….Dylan calling…

He is calling me names, saying that I am a liar, I go back on my promises, the reason he is such a “good liar” is because he learned it from me….blah…blah. He said that I am just an addict and a “Xan head”…meaning I am wasted on Xanax all the time.  As I told him…am I taking Xanax?…yes!  Have my docs been weaning me off…yes!  I was very upfront with Stettner and the rest of my doctors about my attempts to self-medicate when my depression is not under control.
Basically...a few phone calls with Dylan being nasty and hanging up on me…then calling me back because he wants something or he forgot some insult he needed to hurl at me.  I can’t control Dylan or the hurtful things that get said. He is angry and is just going to need to work things out on his own this time. His mother needs to look out for herself.

I have an appointment with Stettner tomorrow so I will be out most of the day.  On a scale of 1-10, I would give myself a 7 for today!
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: psy on December 24, 2008, 10:39:59 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
You all are walking into the middle of a dysfunctional, codependent mother & son relationship.

Show me a family that's not dysfunctional and I'll show you a family of really good liars.  Who are you to judge them?  My only advice to Pam would be to avoid blogging about such personal matters on the web as people will try and use your words against you.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 25, 2008, 02:44:04 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
You all are walking into the middle of a dysfunctional, codependent mother & son relationship. There is no "right" or "wrong" in a situation like this, and really nothing to be arguing about.

From her blog blog:


Quote
Dylan and I have been fighting for about 4-5 days before they started working on Monday.  Things have not been good between us since he got fired on August 22nd.  Dylan and I living together when he is not working has always been a recipe for disaster – throw in some MAJOR demolition/ construction hell at the house – and the unemployment situation and lack of HELP only makes me angrier at Dylan.  I am not angry that he got fired, I am angry that he is doing very little (ie: nothing) to FIND gainful employment.

I watched him do absolutely NOTHING for 2 weeks and it took everything in me not to want to kill him – I was advised to be a little understanding.  I took the advice because I felt it was right (it was), but inside I was still RAGING and FURIOUS, but trying to be nice, loving, supportive and understanding with him on the OUTSIDE.

Stettner has taught me the difference between being “care-frontational” and “kong-frontational.  This information has been very helpful to me and I feel I have made much progress along those lines in a over last 2-4 months.  It is always about being in a “teachable state.”  Sometimes I can be teachable; other times not so teachable. I find myself not so receptive because my resentments get in the way.  I have my demons to face and conquer and Dylan has his – we both have our worst issues over the same person – Dylan’s father (Taylor) – just different reasons for our fury.

Our respective issues with Taylor are wide and diverse and most definitely play themselves out when/while we are fighting or when the household is in a stage of unhappiness or unrest.  ALL of this baggage prevents us for leading happy and fulfilling lives.  We must face these issues if we are to survive without being real f’d up people for the rest of our lives.  I sincerely thought I had come to terms with the damage I endured while Taylor & I were together, but a single conversation with him in February of this year made me realize that “I” still have an array of unresolved issues that cause emotional pain for me and most surely affect my interactions with Dylan.

That is MY STUFF and MY work.  He is not responsible for the sins of the father.  He, on the other hand, has different issues with his Dad and HE will have to deal with those issues “outside” of the relationship he and I ENJOY- most of the time!  I am biased and I know it.

That is why we have Dr. Stettner – a TRAINED and highly skilled clinician & professional helping us sort this stuff out.  Clearly, Dylan and I have NO CLUE on how to do this, but we are relying on her to help us find our way OUT of a cycle we do not want to continue.  We would be “dead in the water” without her and WE LOVE HER AND HER FAMILY SO MUCH!!!

Dylan does not think he is an addict or an alcoholic – the rest of us think he is. You can turn a cucumber into a pickle, but once a pickle, you can never be the cucumber again. He says he can quit any time so I invited him to do so.  Dylan made a commitment to me that he would NOT DRINK for 90 days.  I said that is a brilliant idea – if he can go off booze for 3 months I am sure we will all see a much different Dylan.

We talked for about 3 hours yesterday and I explained my take & experience with AA/NA.  For the first 3-5 years I NEEDED to go to 5 meetings a week and live in a sober living house with 12 other women.  My brain has been engraved with all I learned from AA – whenever I am unsettled I go right back to all the things those people taught me.  13 years later, I still don’t make “big decisions” without the advice of my trusted advisors – you all know who you are.  When there is chaos, I go back to the beginning and make gratitude lists…whatever works.

The point being is that establishing a concrete AA/NA foundation made me solid and gave me a guide for living comfortably in my own skin.

Quote
We survived 21...what's next??? Just more crap!
With respect to Dylan....What he is doing now is not what we agreed to.  Yes, I am pissed because he had a total of 11-12 days of doing NOTHING – only had 1 requirement the WHOLE damn time – get your driver’s license renewed (I even gave him money so he could pay the fee in his birthday card) BEFORE it expired on his birthday which was Wednesday!
One thing…one simple thing to accomplish in 11 days…is that too much to ask?  I think NOT!  
He has plenty of time to go on joy rides up and down PCH to clear his head and get him out of the house.  How can his calendar be SO FILLED with appointments that he can’t get a simple DL renewed on time…when you have not worked for 11 days?  It was not as if he "didn’t know" because “I” was the one who harped on that topic for last 3 weeks. It is just so fricking irresponsible and I am sick of it.
The “Task Sheet” I gave him might as well be wall paper.  He sees no reason to even commence ANYTHING on that list unless he is EXPRESSLY told 1000 times –maybe more…to do so, just so he can have the satisfaction of pissing me off.  He has also suddenly developed some newly developed fear of spiders – since some/most of the projects he is to work on will involve clearing spider webs and other debris. Nothing on that sheet takes a rocket scientist to complete – he was supposed to have already started on the 4th and done by the weekend -  but he was dealing with  hangovers.
This is bull$hit and he has been "working me" all week trying to figure out how to get out of a weekly 2-3 hour session with Stettner AND then having to attend an AA/NA meeting EVERY Sunday after the session. That seems to interfere with HIS agenda.
 As long as he had a valid driver’s license and insurance, he was allowed to drive my bigger, more powerful, scooter to his appointments with her, but sorry…NO DL…no drive.  He made sure that any way available to actually attend his session - he sabotaged…I believe, on purpose.  I am sure he is only going to placate ME anyway.
He is a lazy slob!  He will call her with some crackpot story about “how unreasonable I am”.  He needs to focus his attention on finding a way to make his appointment with her tomorrow.  Maybe a call from her might nudge him back into reality and how he lives on EASY STREET!  I am tired of being taken advantage of or living in this house with the friction that is in direct proportion to his level of inertia.  His mere presence can make me want to smack him across the face…just venting…I will not lay a hand on him.  
I will talk more to Stettner on Tuesday, but I know she is going to get some stupid sob story  from him on WHY he can’t make his appointment Sunday...all bull$hit. He must see her ONCE a week in order to live here…period…no discussion.


Quote
Ever since the estrangement between Dylan and me that began last Monday and was “full blown” by Thursday, I have sent a text message to him every day telling him that  love him and that I pray God is watching over him and keeping him safe – I never received a response until about 3pm Sunday afternoon. In response to telling him that I love him…he said that “doesn’t help when I am fu*ked…Thanks though…”  Since I prepaid for Dylan to stay a week at the motel and check out is today, I figured that I would be hearing from him in some way shape or fashion once my money stopped flowing.  Now is when it REALLY gets hard and he get very personal & ugly!

The PRIMA IRY reason I paid for the 1 week rental at the motel was because I really didn’t feel like hearing all the guilt messages…”I am sleeping in the street, I am hungry, etc.”  I paid for my own peace of mind and to buy some time until I had time to sort things out.  I even offered to pay for another week just so I didn’t have to deal with the Dylan drama that I know is coming once he realizes how serious I am.

The days of my financial support of a lifestyle I don’t feel is neither productive nor appropriate for someone of Dylan’s age, is over.  I need about $1700/month to just break even on the upstairs unit while Dylan lives there paying NO RENT having a grand old time these past 6 months - “his money” is reserved for partying or partying supplies, a cleaning lady to clean his room and do his laundry, and basic utilities (DWP & Gas Co)…not cable with ALL movie channels, no internet connection, monthly cell phone bill.  He comes home after work with an entourage of 3-9 people almost every night! I go up there and it is like some frat house with people all over the place, never knowing who's face I might see in the morning. THIS WAS NOT WHAT I SIGNED ON FOR!!!

The phone calls and guilt trips have already started and I am an evil mother who is “pulling the rug out from under him.”  Told him this should not be a surprise as he has been warned many times since I came home from the hospital that he was on “thin ice with me” – whether or not he CHOSE to HEAR that is not my concern.
Pause….Dylan calling…

He is calling me names, saying that I am a liar, I go back on my promises, the reason he is such a “good liar” is because he learned it from me….blah…blah. He said that I am just an addict and a “Xan head”…meaning I am wasted on Xanax all the time.  As I told him…am I taking Xanax?…yes!  Have my docs been weaning me off…yes!  I was very upfront with Stettner and the rest of my doctors about my attempts to self-medicate when my depression is not under control.
Basically...a few phone calls with Dylan being nasty and hanging up on me…then calling me back because he wants something or he forgot some insult he needed to hurl at me.  I can’t control Dylan or the hurtful things that get said. He is angry and is just going to need to work things out on his own this time. His mother needs to look out for herself.

I have an appointment with Stettner tomorrow so I will be out most of the day.  On a scale of 1-10, I would give myself a 7 for today!

uh...ok that's really not normal. I guess troubled youth really does come from troubled adults. How did you find this blog guest? I will also say that despite being troubled, Pam loves and looks after her son, so while imperfect, she's still not a "program parent."
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: FemanonFatal2.0 on December 25, 2008, 06:01:27 PM
Reading that, it is quite clear that not only is Pam not a program parent, she is a weak and enabling parent and her son is a fucking asshole.

Here's where our whole stance on child victim vs. parent abuser gets switched upside down. This is a genuine situation where the parent is being abused and the child has learned that is all he has to do to survive in life... use and abuse his weak willed unconditionally loving mother. Its sad, very sad, for both of them.

I have been out of my parents house since I was 17, I have done WHATEVER it took to survive. I went through a violent relationship, couch hopped, lived in my car (and had many run ins with cops for parking and sleeping in restricted areas), worked 3 jobs, took low paying degrading jobs simply because that was all that was available to a 17 year old, did semi nude photos for cash, sold all my nice things, ate top romin every day, supported myself through school, took care of crazy bratty kids for a place to stay, took on 4000 in credit card debt, had many times got sick from dehydration and starvation, and believe me the list goes on and on.

These are the life lessons asshole kids NEED to learn. It wasn't until I went through this and truly matured that my mom felt confident that I deserved her help. She got me an apartment and offered me a job working for her company and I have been doing well ever since. Not to say it hasn't been rocky or stressful, I still work 3 jobs and often do only have top romin to eat, but I have since became an adult. An adult who pays for her own 3 bedroom house, supports her boyfriend (of 3 years) through college and still has time to devote her efforts to 2 beautiful children and a cause that she is passionate about. If I hadn't been out on my ass and had to learn fist hand how hard life is, I would have never learned how to provide for myself as I do today.

Kids like Pam's son are little shits that always had everything handed to them and never had to work for their lives. You might think I'm being a hypocrite by saying this, and maybe I am because this view slightly contradicts my other views, but I really think these kinds of kids need a dose of reality. Ill never say a program is that solution and when you have a minor in the house that pulls this kind of shit you have VERY little options besides to put up with it till their 18 then give them the boot. But this guy is 21!!! he should have taken that hike A LONG TIME AGO. and he should stop blaming his mom that he hasn't already. Pam isn't innocent in this either, she created this monster by not preparing him to leave at 18, or at the most 20. She has also done more harm than good just throwing money at the situation and being nice. I understand she's probably afraid of this kid so there's not TOO much she can do to kick him into gear... but she needed to put her foot down and cut off the piggy bank a long time ago.

look guys, you can bash on Pam all day long, but from the looks of it, your worst could never trump the daily torture her son has put her through. Maybe not because of her choice for sending him to casa, but I'm sure you can say she has gotten her karma 10 fold. ::poke::
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 25, 2008, 06:45:59 PM
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
Reading that, it is quite clear that not only is Pam not a program parent, she is a weak and enabling parent and her son is a fucking asshole.

Here's where our whole stance on child victim vs. parent abuser gets switched upside down. This is a genuine situation where the parent is being abused and the child has learned that is all he has to do to survive in life... use and abuse his weak willed unconditionally loving mother. Its sad, very sad, for both of them.

I have been out of my parents house since I was 17, I have done WHATEVER it took to survive. I went through a violent relationship, couch hopped, lived in my car (and had many run ins with cops for parking and sleeping in restricted areas), worked 3 jobs, took low paying degrading jobs simply because that was all that was available to a 17 year old, did semi nude photos for cash, sold all my nice things, ate top romin every day, supported myself through school, took care of crazy bratty kids for a place to stay, took on 4000 in credit card debt, had many times got sick from dehydration and starvation, and believe me the list goes on and on.

These are the life lessons asshole kids NEED to learn. It wasn't until I went through this and truly matured that my mom felt confident that I deserved her help. She got me an apartment and offered me a job working for her company and I have been doing well ever since. Not to say it hasn't been rocky or stressful, I still work 3 jobs and often do only have top romin to eat, but I have since became an adult. An adult who pays for her own 3 bedroom house, supports her boyfriend (of 3 years) through college and still has time to devote her efforts to 2 beautiful children and a cause that she is passionate about. If I hadn't been out on my ass and had to learn fist hand how hard life is, I would have never learned how to provide for myself as I do today.

Kids like Pam's son are little shits that always had everything handed to them and never had to work for their lives. You might think I'm being a hypocrite by saying this, and maybe I am because this view slightly contradicts my other views, but I really think these kinds of kids need a dose of reality. Ill never say a program is that solution and when you have a minor in the house that pulls this kind of shit you have VERY little options besides to put up with it till their 18 then give them the boot. But this guy is 21!!! he should have taken that hike A LONG TIME AGO. and he should stop blaming his mom that he hasn't already. Pam isn't innocent in this either, she created this monster by not preparing him to leave at 18, or at the most 20. She has also done more harm than good just throwing money at the situation and being nice. I understand she's probably afraid of this kid so there's not TOO much she can do to kick him into gear... but she needed to put her foot down and cut off the piggy bank a long time ago.

look guys, you can bash on Pam all day long, but from the looks of it, your worst could never trump the daily torture her son has put her through. Maybe not because of her choice for sending him to casa, but I'm sure you can say she has gotten her karma 10 fold. ::poke::

How do you know the stuff Pam says about her kid is accurate? Maybe she's not giving you an accurate rendition of reality. I also think that your idea that you didn't "deserve" your mother's help at one point is not healthy. Posing for nude photos, being in violent relationships, getting sick form dehydration and working degrading jobs, just sounds like something somewhat tramatizing and a waste of time, not a rite of passage that "earns"  parental assistance. The "normal" parents I know help their kids through-out their life. It's not an adversarial or enabling thing, just a natural extension of love; kind of like you help your boyfriend? Your view seems a little skewed, in my opinion. JMO
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 25, 2008, 06:52:16 PM
sorry if when i said skewed that comes off rude. MERRY CHRISTMAS
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 25, 2008, 07:08:27 PM
Pam should do what she believe what she should do.

Neither me or my brother have ever been at a program, but here is our story about us and our mom.

Many years ago I left my birth home and went to live in an apartment (1 room with kitchen at one of the walls). There I lived for 7 years before moving into an apartment where I would wake up not remembering the dinner I ate the evening before due to the smell. I worked +50 hours while still having time for my passion (marathon and later Ironman). I have been drinking alcohol since I was 15 as it is a part of our culture here in Denmark, but I have never allowed it to take control over my life. The work was hard in a shop with shoplifter ready to go after you with a knife if you took them red-handed. 2 of my co-workers lost their lives. One committed suicide. He couldn't stand the pressure. Another one just did drop down on the floor dying 4 days before the Christmas in 1990. It was hard to give his belongings back to his wife. While they had to bear a huge loss the only comfort was that he died in service which is something we all deep inside long for in a society where we pay more than 50 percent of our income and are no longer entitled to early retirement. A third employer ended up in a lockdown hospital losing his nerves completely. To my knowledge he never recovered and we are speaking of a job I worked in between 1986 and 1993.

But I survived the job and the products I was a part of introducing to the market are now the key component of Microsoft Business Solution. There were days where I ate tuna for weeks. I ate it out of the can, I cooked it or it became a part of a soup. My teeth were damaged due to longtime lack of C-vitamin. I pay for it to this very day with expensive bills.

If we went back to my time in school I was the boy who said maybe 10 words in a day. I was straight a A-student whenever I liked to tease them during written exams. I was from the working class I and my parents did not expect me to do more than just fair in school, so I kept my true potential from anyone most of the time. In my home we didn't dance around the Christmas tree or sang songs together. I didn't even own a record player until I met my wife. Generally I don't enjoy music because it removes focus from my job.

I had very few friends in school primarily because my mother was from a foreign country and while I don’t speak her native language because our experts have researched the area and found out, that learning two languages can damage the possibility for a full integration my mother had to struggle to learn Danish, serve in a job and raise two children. She never had a long period of illness until she retired just this year, but she was of course a survivor born in Finland 1946 in a town bombed down to bricks.

My younger brother was the outspoken kind. He had a lot of friends. But for reasons unknown he dropped out of school after form 9 and worked various jobs with no long-term strategy. I went to business school and continued to study after work combining it with my job and sports.

Unfortunately he got a head injury at one of his jobs and turn to drugs to remove the chronic pains. It took him downhill to inpatient treatment for a bipolar illness (They never discovered his drug use) and a struggle for years just to survive. Last year he dropped the drugs after almost 20 years and is now not even using ordinary tobacco anymore.

Where was our mother in all that? She bailed him out time after time. Now where he is almost 40 she stills comes around and clean his one room apartment. My father died a couple of years ago and we both got some money. I have used some on my house and most them are still in the bank. He has nothing left.
How do I feel about the choices both my parents have made over the years supporting him time after time when things went bad? Answer: I feel nothing. It is really their choice. I live a life which they never have said anything about. I don’t know if they approve of it or not. I have tried to invite my dad while he lived to visit his grandchildren. He was always busy. I saw him maybe two or three times per year and it was always me who had to reach out. I also see both my mother and my brother 3-4 times per year and if I should say something about it, I have no problems about it. We don’t fight. We don’t disagree, but we have nothing to talk about.

I don’t think that a program could have made any difference here. I was raised to survive in a tough business never asking for anything. I did not cry when my co-workers died or even when my father died regardless of the fact that I cared for him as a close relative. My boss hates when we are talking salary, because I never ask for anything while I continue to increase my salary regardless of that.

I don’t understand why my mother wants to save my brother any other day, but it must be her choice. I would never ask her to stop that.

Also Pam should continue to bail her son out if she likes to. It may be that she ends up supporting her son as my mother does with my brother when her son is 38. But it is Pam’s choice.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 25, 2008, 08:53:24 PM
Quote from: "Shlei"
It changed my life, My life is solid and I left unscathed. I also made great friendships.

Did anybody else notice this thread was bumped out of obscurity a few days ago by "Shlei", the mysterious proWWASP alumni who made two one-sentence posts before disappearing, never to be heard from again? "Shlei" must be having quite the chuckle right about now.


 :jerry:
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 25, 2008, 09:36:27 PM
Quote from: "Recovering anti-BM"
Pam should do what she believe what she should do.

Neither me or my brother have ever been at a program, but here is our story about us and our mom.

Many years ago I left my birth home and went to live in an apartment (1 room with kitchen at one of the walls). There I lived for 7 years before moving into an apartment where I would wake up not remembering the dinner I ate the evening before due to the smell. I worked +50 hours while still having time for my passion (marathon and later Ironman). I have been drinking alcohol since I was 15 as it is a part of our culture here in Denmark, but I have never allowed it to take control over my life. The work was hard in a shop with shoplifter ready to go after you with a knife if you took them red-handed. 2 of my co-workers lost their lives. One committed suicide. He couldn't stand the pressure. Another one just did drop down on the floor dying 4 days before the Christmas in 1990. It was hard to give his belongings back to his wife. While they had to bear a huge loss the only comfort was that he died in service which is something we all deep inside long for in a society where we pay more than 50 percent of our income and are no longer entitled to early retirement. A third employer ended up in a lockdown hospital losing his nerves completely. To my knowledge he never recovered and we are speaking of a job I worked in between 1986 and 1993.

But I survived the job and the products I was a part of introducing to the market are now the key component of Microsoft Business Solution. There were days where I ate tuna for weeks. I ate it out of the can, I cooked it or it became a part of a soup. My teeth were damaged due to longtime lack of C-vitamin. I pay for it to this very day with expensive bills.

If we went back to my time in school I was the boy who said maybe 10 words in a day. I was straight a A-student whenever I liked to tease them during written exams. I was from the working class I and my parents did not expect me to do more than just fair in school, so I kept my true potential from anyone most of the time. In my home we didn't dance around the Christmas tree or sang songs together. I didn't even own a record player until I met my wife. Generally I don't enjoy music because it removes focus from my job.

I had very few friends in school primarily because my mother was from a foreign country and while I don’t speak her native language because our experts have researched the area and found out, that learning two languages can damage the possibility for a full integration my mother had to struggle to learn Danish, serve in a job and raise two children. She never had a long period of illness until she retired just this year, but she was of course a survivor born in Finland 1946 in a town bombed down to bricks.

My younger brother was the outspoken kind. He had a lot of friends. But for reasons unknown he dropped out of school after form 9 and worked various jobs with no long-term strategy. I went to business school and continued to study after work combining it with my job and sports.

Unfortunately he got a head injury at one of his jobs and turn to drugs to remove the chronic pains. It took him downhill to inpatient treatment for a bipolar illness (They never discovered his drug use) and a struggle for years just to survive. Last year he dropped the drugs after almost 20 years and is now not even using ordinary tobacco anymore.

Where was our mother in all that? She bailed him out time after time. Now where he is almost 40 she stills comes around and clean his one room apartment. My father died a couple of years ago and we both got some money. I have used some on my house and most them are still in the bank. He has nothing left.
How do I feel about the choices both my parents have made over the years supporting him time after time when things went bad? Answer: I feel nothing. It is really their choice. I live a life which they never have said anything about. I don’t know if they approve of it or not. I have tried to invite my dad while he lived to visit his grandchildren. He was always busy. I saw him maybe two or three times per year and it was always me who had to reach out. I also see both my mother and my brother 3-4 times per year and if I should say something about it, I have no problems about it. We don’t fight. We don’t disagree, but we have nothing to talk about.

I don’t think that a program could have made any difference here. I was raised to survive in a tough business never asking for anything. I did not cry when my co-workers died or even when my father died regardless of the fact that I cared for him as a close relative. My boss hates when we are talking salary, because I never ask for anything while I continue to increase my salary regardless of that.
.



that's it. I'm commiting suicide.
You just combined "the stranger," "jude the obscure" and "perfume" in this post of rotten toothed, alienatated, head injured, overworked misery.


Quote from: "Recovering anti-BM"
Another one just did drop down on the floor dying 4 days before the Christmas in 1990. It was hard to give his belongings back to his wife. While they had to bear a huge loss the only comfort was that he died in service which is something we all deep inside long for in a society where we pay more than 50 percent of our income and are no longer entitled to early retirement..

 :eek:  So, uh, you and everyone in Denmark longs to die young, deep inside, huh. That's, uh, lovely. MERRY CHRISTMAS. MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Miss Antsy Pam on December 25, 2008, 10:04:20 PM
I appreciate the respect that was show to the blog i created for my family while I was in the hospital and an 4 month old infant in our family was dying a slow and painful death...these were very difficult time for me and my entire family.  I do not appreciate the omissions of dates and entries taken out of context.  I will not defend myself in any way shape or form; I have absolutely nothing to hide.  I invite you ALL to read the ENTIRE blog, in context, with dates.  http://www.xanga.com/pammy8462 (http://www.xanga.com/pammy8462)

again...carry on people.  Merry Christmas
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 25, 2008, 10:29:34 PM
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
I appreciate the respect that was show to the blog i created for my family while I was in the hospital and an 4 month old infant in our family was dying a slow and painful death...these were very difficult time for me and my entire family.  I do not appreciate the omissions of dates and entries taken out of context.  I will not defend myself in any way shape or form; I have absolutely nothing to hide.  I invite you ALL to read the ENTIRE blog, in context, with dates.  http://www.xanga.com/pammmy8462 (http://www.xanga.com/pammmy8462)

again...carry on people.  Merry Christmas


HOW DID THIS PERson find your blog?
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Miss Antsy Pam on December 25, 2008, 10:51:06 PM
Not a clue...No idea...it was meant to be private, but ignorance is not always bliss.  I will live and learn.

Hmmm..now that I think about it, it probably came as a search result from my Skype user name which has the same extension.
Title: Here is to whomever that did this sick action
Post by: Miss Antsy Pam on December 26, 2008, 12:31:22 AM
Ok, here is a honest insight on Pam and her son Dylan's life, and why Pam puts out the time and effort for you awful heartless people who would do such a thing so....? You all could feel better about yourselves; what does it help you sleep at night cowards!!!!!   I am Pam's adopted daughter Holly.  Why do I have meaning to this discussion, because i am Dylan"s girl-friend and have been since he got out of that hell on earth, torture hole; as you all know!!
I think the fact that someone would go that low digging into someones personal life such as you did is a complete and utter violation... i have been in this family and with Dylan since shortly after casa and NOBODY knows how bad that feels knowing they have made such a mistake and for you to attack this woman shows zero strength in all of you!  

 For what u have committed, posting my mothers personal life on your fornits (talk shit and could NEVER back it up site) is and has been fascinating, but this is so low, so cruel of all you. You all don't know Pam; if you did, what you have all said & done, it would haunt you your whole lives.. Since you sick people will continue on in this blog against the fight to put an end to the trouble teen industry, which your not even focusing on, instead acting like a troubled teen yourselves. Here is something i think everybody should know about Pam, enabler she is not, a kind loving STRONG woman who helps the community and her loved ones such as family and myself more than you sad lifeless blogers who would do such a thing, would be never be of her caliber.

 Since whomever keeps on quoting the excerpts from her personal blogs about her family is not only offensive to Dylan but her entire family, including me. So, now here i am reading what you all have written, posted or participated in the alignment of Pam sickens my soul Only because of the mere fact you are all wrong so please all of you don't beat the horse any longer ---- the horse is dead.    I am appalled at the juvenile behavior exhibited in this thread, grow the FUCK UP PEOPLE AND GET A LIFE i mean come on, its Christmas & you all you all are the scum that fills our world !! sleep well     ....... love always Pam's loving  Daughter        ::puke::    shit heads!!!
Title: Re: Here is to whomever that did this sick action
Post by: Anonymous on December 26, 2008, 12:40:31 AM
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
Ok, here is a honest insight on Pam and her son Dylan's life, and why Pam puts out the time and effort for you awful heartless people who would do such a thing so....? You all could feel better about yourselves; what does it help you sleep at night cowards!!!!!   I am Pam's adopted daughter Holly.  Why do I have meaning to this discussion, because i am Dylan"s girl-friend and have been since he got out of that hell on earth, torture hole; as you all know!!
I think the fact that someone would go that low digging into someones personal life such as you did is a complete and utter violation... i have been in this family and with Dylan since shortly after casa and NOBODY knows how bad that feels knowing they have made such a mistake and for you to attack this woman shows zero strength in all of you!  

 For what u have committed, posting my mothers personal life on your fornits (talk shit and could NEVER back it up site) is and has been fascinating, but this is so low, so cruel of all you. You all don't know Pam; if you did, what you have all said & done, it would haunt you your whole lives.. Since you sick people will continue on in this blog against the fight to put an end to the trouble teen industry, which your not even focusing on, instead acting like a troubled teen yourselves. Here is something i think everybody should know about Pam, enabler she is not, a kind loving STRONG woman who helps the community and her loved ones such as family and myself more than you sad lifeless blogers who would do such a thing, would be never be of her caliber.

 Since whomever keeps on quoting the excerpts from her personal blogs about her family is not only offensive to Dylan but her entire family, including me. So, now here i am reading what you all have written, posted or participated in the alignment of Pam sickens my soul Only because of the mere fact you are all wrong so please all of you don't beat the horse any longer ---- the horse is dead.    I am appalled at the juvenile behavior exhibited in this thread, grow the FUCK UP PEOPLE AND GET A LIFE i mean come on, its Christmas & you all you all are the scum that fills our world !! sleep well     ....... love always Pam's loving  Daughter        ::puke::    shit heads!!!

This is obviously Pam posing as her own kid. This woman has some serious issues.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 26, 2008, 04:40:06 AM
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
Not a clue...No idea...it was meant to be private, but ignorance is not always bliss.  I will live and learn.

Hmmm..now that I think about it, it probably came as a search result from my Skype user name which has the same extension.

they did a search on your user name? Ansty Pam? I am asking you this because I am paranoid about something similar happening to me and I'd like to avoid it...there have been problems with that sort of thing happening .
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 26, 2008, 04:42:31 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
Not a clue...No idea...it was meant to be private, but ignorance is not always bliss.  I will live and learn.

Hmmm..now that I think about it, it probably came as a search result from my Skype user name which has the same extension.

they did a search on your user name? Ansty Pam? I am asking you this because I am paranoid about something similar happening to me and I'd like to avoid it...there have been problems with that sort of thing happening .

this sort of thing has happened has happened here, and, yes, it's LOW
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: psy on December 26, 2008, 04:48:02 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
Not a clue...No idea...it was meant to be private, but ignorance is not always bliss.  I will live and learn.

Hmmm..now that I think about it, it probably came as a search result from my Skype user name which has the same extension.

they did a search on your user name? Ansty Pam? I am asking you this because I am paranoid about something similar happening to me and I'd like to avoid it...there have been problems with that sort of thing happening .

Maybe not username.  Most likely it's by using "Pam" and certain other keywords pertinent to her story she's used elsewhere (such as her son's name, etc).  If you want to avoid it happening, the only sure way is not to post your story on the internet.  If you really want to, I suggest changing all the names.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Che Gookin on December 26, 2008, 09:27:58 AM
Psy.. I'm pretty sure that isn't what happened. I've done google search after google search trying to make that blog come up and so far nothing. I'm betting Pam probably has showed that link to someone or another prior to coming to fornits. That someone or another probably decided to get some quick payback on her for whatever reason that person has.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 26, 2008, 11:35:34 AM
Maybe you fucktards can read her blog the way SHE wrote it and NOT the way it was presented on this thread. I took the time to read it-ALL of it.  Show me a family that does not struggle with young adults!

another mom


Wednesday, July 23, 2008

    *
      Please Pray for my Family...we all need it!

      Overwhelming Sadness today…

      July 23, 2008

      Wednesday – 8:00am

      It is with deep regret that I report that 8 month old Jayden (1st great grandchild in our family) has passed and now sleeps with the angels and at God’s home in heaven.

      This little girl has spent the last 4 ½ months in the pediatric ICU – first at Northridge Hospital and then on to Cedar Sinai Medical Center.  Jayden had undergone so many surgeries and there were times that our family thought we might lose her, but her will to survive prevailed.

      When she finally had the open heart surgery, we were optimistic that she was finally on the road to wellness and coming home.  To everyone’s surprise, the doctors and nurses decided Jayden was strong enough to go home with oxygen, last Friday.  She didn’t get discharged until very late…like 9-10pm, but it didn’t matter…Jayden was going to her NEW HOME in Simi valley with her loving mother, Nikki!!

      We were all so HAPPY and Nikki was planning an “open House” for this Sunday. I was fortunate and was able to speak to Nikki on Saturday and she sounded SO GOOD and happy that the worst part of this nightmare was over and she had her daughter home and in the safety of her arms – without all the wires, tubes, and other paraphernalia attached. Nikki and I spent a fair amount of time together while she was staying here when Jayden was at Cedars…she is much like her mother with that heart of gold.  I only wish there was something I could do to ease the pain she must be feeling and enduring.

      I am with you Nik and my prayers are for you and your family through this time of sadness and mourning.

      xxoo  ~pammy

 Monday, July 21, 2008

    *
      Progress and NOT Perfection!

      July 21, 2008

      Monday – 7am

      Progress and NOT Perfection!

      I must always be mindful that I cannot judge Dylan by ordinary standards.  He grew up and lived in a very warped environment for almost 8 years; he was 7 then and I did not get him back until he was 15 years old.  At 25, Taylor (Dylan’s sperm donor) was fully able to brainwash me and control every aspect of my life.  At that time, I was a grown woman and could not resist him and even “I” really did not know what was happening at that time until it was too late!  At 7 years old, Dylan never stood a chance!

      So, I cannot judge Dylan by where I think he should be in his emotional development. Instead, I must look at how far he has come in the last 5+ years!! He is definitely not the boy that was so full of RAGE and resentments when he arrived here back in early 2003.

      I am disappointed, but understand, that he does not want to continue therapy at the moment – Dylan and Stettner have hit what they call “a therapeutic impasse.”  It happens, but he knows where to go if he needs help and she would not slam the door in his face if he was standing there asking for help.

      He was coming close to really having to “do the work” in order to the resolve some of his CORE issues; my gut tells me he is terribly fearful of walking down that road with/without a therapist to guide him.  It is okay with me if he needs a break from therapy.

      Pam, on the other hand, needs and wants the therapy and her 2 hour weekly sessions with Stettner! It kills me when I can’t make my appointments with her due to work load or other issues. She “grounds” me and I feel tethered to something stable and strong.  Nothing short of an earthquake or something along those lines that will keep me away from my appt tomorrow!!!  I only missed last week, but it feels like I have missed a MONTH of sessions with her!!  I feel grateful that she is willing to continue to see me on a regular basis and not focused completely on Dylan and/or my relationship with him.  I can’t fix HIM, but I CAN make sure that my therapeutic needs are met so I can be a strong and supportive parent in healthy ways and not through enablement.

      On the health front…

      I have exciting news…Dr. Patel called me over the weekend and gave me the results of latest echo cardiogram – normal lab values for fluid around the heart is between 15-50ml – my last test showed me at 48ml…yeah Pam!!  I was over 100 when first discovered.  I was very happy to hear the good news.  I have been on oral steroids for about a month and a half which treats the problem but has awful side effects.  Now that the lab value is good, he will start slowly weaning me off the Prednisone with the hope that the decrease in steroids do not cause the fluid to build up again.  He will be closely monitoring me. He also said that my lymphocytes are within normal range…this in itself is a rarity and more good news!

      I still have very little appetite and rely on the Ensure and other nutritional supplements to keep me from losing more weight – NEVER in a million years would I have imagined that I would actually be trying to GAIN weight!  I have been able to keep my weight above 120lbs this month. I need to be somewhere between 125-130lbs to maintain my health, strength and stamina.

      Welcome to a new week…

      ~pam
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 26, 2008, 11:45:06 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Maybe you fucktards can read her blog the way SHE wrote it and NOT the way it was presented on this thread. I took the time to read it-ALL of it.  Show me a family that does not struggle with young adults!

how did you read the whole blog?  the link miss antsy pam posted does not work.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 26, 2008, 11:50:49 AM
Quote from: "FZ25A"
Quote from: "Guest"
Maybe you fucktards can read her blog the way SHE wrote it and NOT the way it was presented on this thread. I took the time to read it-ALL of it.  Show me a family that does not struggle with young adults!

how did you read the whole blog?  the link miss antsy pam posted does not work.

The "Guest" you quoted is Pam.  :roflmao:
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on December 26, 2008, 12:05:01 PM
There is something just so sick about the way people enjoy hurting others on this site. I guess you don't have to come here, and read all this crap if you don't want to. But, it's really sad. I hope you know how wrong it is. Karma is a bitch, and you'll find that out if you haven't already. It's obvious to me Pam was going through a really tough time. The fact you expose her at her weakest and darkest times speaks volumes. I understand the little tiffs from time to time around here. Actually, some of that shit is pretty funny! But, this is different. You guys need to chill.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Miss Antsy Pam on December 26, 2008, 02:26:09 PM
Look ppl..there are 8 computers in my house, my family all have access to my blog....forgive them if they are a bit furious with what you have done.  Of course these post will all come from MY IP address.

~pam
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 26, 2008, 02:53:20 PM
They would need to know your fornits password to log into your account. But... I'm sure you are now going to tell us you shared your fornits password over Christmas dinner, just for the hell of it.  ::)
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: FemanonFatal2.0 on December 26, 2008, 04:27:43 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
It wasn't until I went through this and truly matured that my mom felt confident that I deserved her help.

I also think that your idea that you didn't "deserve" your mother's help at one point is not healthy.

Well I would tend to agree with you on your statements, but I never said "I" believed that I didnt deserve my mother's help. actually quite the contrary, before I was KICKED OUT of my house at 17 years old I had worked VERY hard to get my diploma that Casa By The Sea deprived me of (not to mention an education) I also got accepted and earned 2 scholarships and a grant to go to the ART SCHOOL OF MY DREAMS!! However my mother told me, "If you couldn't graduate Casa what makes me think your going to graduate college?" and refused to cosign for my student loans. She also mentioned that my college fund had been spent on that hellhole anyway so If I wanted an education I was going to have to get a job and pay for community college classes. At that point I was sick of her shit and happy to leave... I left her house 2 months before my 18th birthday which I spent sad and alone.

I don't think that I deserved to be treated like that, neither to I believe I had to go through some awful shit before I deserved a hand out from her. I'm still pissed it went down that way. I just believe that those experiences made me who I am today, taught me some very valuable lessons.

In this situation with Pam and her son I think a life lesson is exactly what would be appropriate. Pam putting her foot down in this situation is necessary for his maturation, teaching him to fish so to speak and then after he has learned how to fend for himself she can offer him something he can appreciate... for instance, an apartment somewhere in town where he has to pay his own rent. This guy is 21, he needs to get off the teet. when I offered up MY story I wasn't saying what happened to me was the right way, I said being on my own forced me to grow up and I think that's what Pam's son needs too.
Title: Re: Here is to whomever that did this sick action
Post by: FemanonFatal2.0 on December 26, 2008, 05:20:34 PM
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
Ok, here is a honest insight on Pam and her son Dylan's life, and why Pam puts out the time and effort for you awful heartless people who would do such a thing so....? You all could feel better about yourselves; what does it help you sleep at night cowards!!!!!   I am Pam's adopted daughter Holly.  Why do I have meaning to this discussion, because i am Dylan"s girl-friend and have been since he got out of that hell on earth, torture hole; as you all know!!
I think the fact that someone would go that low digging into someones personal life such as you did is a complete and utter violation... i have been in this family and with Dylan since shortly after casa and NOBODY knows how bad that feels knowing they have made such a mistake and for you to attack this woman shows zero strength in all of you!  

 For what u have committed, posting my mothers personal life on your fornits (talk shit and could NEVER back it up site) is and has been fascinating, but this is so low, so cruel of all you. You all don't know Pam; if you did, what you have all said & done, it would haunt you your whole lives.. Since you sick people will continue on in this blog against the fight to put an end to the trouble teen industry, which your not even focusing on, instead acting like a troubled teen yourselves. Here is something i think everybody should know about Pam, enabler she is not, a kind loving STRONG woman who helps the community and her loved ones such as family and myself more than you sad lifeless blogers who would do such a thing, would be never be of her caliber.

 Since whomever keeps on quoting the excerpts from her personal blogs about her family is not only offensive to Dylan but her entire family, including me. So, now here i am reading what you all have written, posted or participated in the alignment of Pam sickens my soul Only because of the mere fact you are all wrong so please all of you don't beat the horse any longer ---- the horse is dead.    I am appalled at the juvenile behavior exhibited in this thread, grow the FUCK UP PEOPLE AND GET A LIFE i mean come on, its Christmas & you all you all are the scum that fills our world !! sleep well     ....... love always Pam's loving  Daughter        ::puke::    shit heads!!!

WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW.

Im honestly not even going to mention what I know about YOU Holly, which believe me is enough to judge that this piece of work came straight from your ass, but holy jesus how fucking stupid could one cunty bitch be?... lololol. These people don't like your EX BOYFRIENDS mother because she has come on too strong and made too many excuses which for most of us SCREAMS a WWASP plant. I don't know HOW someone came across this blog, unless it is the blog on antiwwasp but I'm pretty sure who ever did this was investigating those judgments in order to find out if she was a "program parent" or who she claims to be. Futhermore, Pam uploaded those blog entries for people to be able to read, and as it is human nature to judge any number of situations I don't find it "so low" or "so cruel" I find it to be slightly invasive, but most of us take measures to protect our identities and personal information and considering that Pam did not she cant blame people for reading a publicly posted journal.

Here's the thing tho, I don't approve of bashing Pam, and neither do many other people on this site and even in this thread. There is probably one or two TROLLS who bait her on purpose and that is because that is what they do to everyone. That is kind of what hiding behind anonymity is about, you say the most shocking thing to get people all riled up and spark some entertaining conversations. I really don't think we would have half the good content contributions here on Fornits if trolls weren't allowed to come in here and stir some shit up. Honestly its pretty much all a big joke and what you should do is get a kick out of intelligently debating those people and PROVE your opinion has more validity than theirs. However you did not do this, instead you decided to bring your trailer trash, Jerry Springer, gangster talk to a forum that is probably all just getting the BIGGEST chuckle at your expense. The fact that you said this is what really gets me rolling:

Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
For what u have committed, posting my mothers personal life on your fornits (talk shit and could NEVER back it up site)(Bahahaha haaa) is and has been fascinating, but this is so low, so cruel of all you. You all don't know Pam; if you did, what you have all said & done, it would haunt you your whole lives

Seriously?... what are we Fornitcators supposed to do to "back up" what we say here online?... are you insisting that it would be more agreeable to come knock on your door and say it to your face? If I ever get the dubious pleasure of meeting you Holly I assure you I will. lol and on a side note, please don't even come close to assuming you could take me in a fight, because I'm afraid that could only end badly for you. Futhermore, I DO know Pam, too well I'm afraid and although I am not her biggest fan I have still used this opportunity to shed some light on the truth to ease some of our fellow posters suspicions as well has Psy and Che and other posters who have only given their opinion on the situation and NEVER bashed Pam. Yet you have come to OUR site and spewed your hateful shit all over everyone. I don't think anyone takes kindly to that, so please bitch, don't expect a warm welcome. And if you could kindly go fuck yourself that would be much appreciated as well.

<3 :jerry:
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 26, 2008, 05:48:55 PM
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
It wasn't until I went through this and truly matured that my mom felt confident that I deserved her help.

I also think that your idea that you didn't "deserve" your mother's help at one point is not healthy.

Well I would tend to agree with you on your statements, but I never said "I" believed that I didnt deserve my mother's help. actually quite the contrary, before I was KICKED OUT of my house at 17 years old I had worked VERY hard to get my diploma that Casa By The Sea deprived me of (not to mention an education) I also got accepted and earned 2 scholarships and a grant to go to the ART SCHOOL OF MY DREAMS!! However my mother told me, "If you couldn't graduate Casa what makes me think your going to graduate college?" and refused to cosign for my student loans. She also mentioned that my college fund had been spent on that hellhole anyway so If I wanted an education I was going to have to get a job and pay for community college classes. At that point I was sick of her shit and happy to leave... I left her house 2 months before my 18th birthday which I spent sad and alone.

.

so evil.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Oscar on December 26, 2008, 05:49:22 PM
Could we not end this thread?

Dylan is her son and if she feel like supporting him until he retires from the work force, then let her regardless of the fact that is doesn't help him. She is sorry for sending him there and as it is with every mother-offspring relationship where the mother have bad conscience and try to buy excuses believing it is love, it will backfire. But it is her choice. We have said that it will backfire and it properly had already, but she is an adult making descisions and we should respect that she is ready to take the consequences.

So please stop the thread!

Digging into these personal things like what happened in the past are not important now. We cannot change them. What we can change is the future and if we shouldn't waste our time, then write down what happened, where it happend and who did it. Post it online and include it as a references on the right wiki-page. Find out where the staff went and if they still are in the BM-industry. Publish every single bit on info about existing programs, so you can become the last survivors or relatives of survivors who went there.

We are getting somewhere finding new info every single day. Find out mates in the programs and get them to give their small contributions so yet more of the layers covering the programs up can be removed. Please stop fighting.

Pam: Please go to anti-wwasp (http://http://www.antiwwasp.com/forum/). Jensp has new info to work on.  FemanonFatal2.0: Please go back to Troubled-Teen-Industry (http://http://www.troubled-teen-industry.com/). I found a couple of script issued teasing european versions of IE7 and KlausK has a little titbit for you also.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 26, 2008, 05:53:29 PM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Psy.. I'm pretty sure that isn't what happened. I've done google search after google search trying to make that blog come up and so far nothing. I'm betting Pam probably has showed that link to someone or another prior to coming to fornits. That someone or another probably decided to get some quick payback on her for whatever reason that person has.


i couldn't find it either.So, this is someone who had her link, not hacking, or anything, Psy? (I love psy [fornit's daddy])!)
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: psy on December 26, 2008, 05:59:59 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Psy.. I'm pretty sure that isn't what happened. I've done google search after google search trying to make that blog come up and so far nothing. I'm betting Pam probably has showed that link to someone or another prior to coming to fornits. That someone or another probably decided to get some quick payback on her for whatever reason that person has.


i couldn't find it either.So, this is someone who had her link, not hacking, or anything, Psy? (I love psy [fornit's daddy])!)
No.  Not hacking.  If it doesn't show up on a Google search (meaning the site has a noindex tag), then it's most likely what Che said (somebody upset with pam who had that blog address and decided to publish it).

PS: I am not fornit's daddy, though I thank you for the sentiments. Ginger (Antigen) is Fornit's mommy... Single parent.  LOL.  I'm more of Fornits' techincal babysitter.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: psy on December 26, 2008, 06:09:37 PM
Quote from: "Oscar"
FemanonFatal2.0: Please go back to Troubled-Teen-Industry (http://http://www.troubled-teen-industry.com/). I found a couple of script issued teasing european versions of IE7 and KlausK has a little titbit for you also.
Just FYI, I ironed out a permissions issue with the Project manager (requires registration).  You might want to give it a try.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 26, 2008, 06:36:32 PM
Quote from: "Oscar"
Could we not end this thread?

Dylan is her son and if she feel like supporting him until he retires from the work force, then let her regardless of the fact that is doesn't help him. She is sorry for sending him there and as it is with every mother-offspring relationship where the mother have bad conscience and try to buy excuses believing it is love, it will backfire. But it is her choice. We have said that it will backfire and it properly had already, but she is an adult making descisions and we should respect that she is ready to take the consequences.

So please stop the thread!

Digging into these personal things like what happened in the past are not important now. We cannot change them. What we can change is the future and if we shouldn't waste our time, then write down what happened, where it happend and who did it. Post it online and include it as a references on the right wiki-page. Find out where the staff went and if they still are in the BM-industry. Publish every single bit on info about existing programs, so you can become the last survivors or relatives of survivors who went there.

We are getting somewhere finding new info every single day. Find out mates in the programs and get them to give their small contributions so yet more of the layers covering the programs up can be removed. Please stop fighting.

Pam: Please go to anti-wwasp (http://http://www.antiwwasp.com/forum/). Jensp has new info to work on.  FemanonFatal2.0: Please go back to Troubled-Teen-Industry (http://http://www.troubled-teen-industry.com/). I found a couple of script issued teasing european versions of IE7 and KlausK has a little titbit for you also.

Yes. Listen to Oscar and his rotten toothed, sees his parents 2ce a year, doesn't mind when his parents and coworkers die, and wishes to die "deep inside" (just "like everyone" in his country) wisdom on interpersonal relations!
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: psy on December 26, 2008, 07:07:05 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Yes. Listen to Oscar and his rotten toothed, sees his parents 2ce a year, doesn't mind when his parents and coworkers die, and wishes to die "deep inside" (just "like everyone" in his country) wisdom on interpersonal relations!

Cultures are different around the world.  I guarantee Italians or Greeks would be offering different advice than him, for instance (famous for extended families). It doesn't make any way of running a family better or worse, just different.  Generally, the more northern you go in Europe, the colder people are, and the more southern, the warmer...  Actually I think that's mostly worldwide. I think weather has a lot to do with both culture and the temperament of different peoples.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Oscar on December 26, 2008, 07:08:45 PM
The previous post wasn't me but frankly we from the Scandinavian countries are very cold where we rest when we sit down on our ice-blocks. No surprise here if you have been awake all the time.

If you think we miss that and should attend a LGAT to ensure an emontional growth which could result in us being illsuited to function in our culture where we all are cold-harded and reserved, when we don't consume alcohol you are very mistaken. We are like that and while I also only see my sister once or twice per year, I do talk to them on my phone every week.

If you dont understand us thats fine, but this thread doesn't benefit any anti-BM cause in any way. It is only deflecting our attention!
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 27, 2008, 02:10:49 AM
just figured out that FemanonFatal2.0 = chelsea from antiwwasp

(looks like shortly after she was banned there she showed up @ fornits to make us listen to her meaningless outbursts)
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Che Gookin on December 27, 2008, 08:42:56 AM
So which one of these guests is Kevin August?
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: FemanonFatal2.0 on December 27, 2008, 02:46:20 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
just figured out that FemanonFatal2.0 = chelsea from antiwwasp

(looks like shortly after she was banned there she showed up @ fornits to make us listen to her meaningless outbursts)

Hahaha wow... Hi Kev, how you been doing?... Not too well from what I've heard, but you know that's how Karma works.

To answer your question Che, Obvious Kev is Obvious, We all know the only person who knows or cares to reveal that information is Kev.

He's also the only person who had access to Pam's Blog.

Isn't it funny how Kev trolls Fornits?...

But how can you blame him?...Have you all seen Antiwwasp lately?... Bahahaha there are all of 2 people that post there now, Kev and FR.

Pathetic. Simply Pathetic.  :twofinger:
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Miz LaMere on December 27, 2008, 02:51:53 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
They would need to know your fornits password to log into your account. But... I'm sure you are now going to tell us you shared your fornits password over Christmas dinner, just for the hell of it.  ::)

I was not under the impression that '"GUESTS" needed a password...only registered users.  Am I wrong?
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Miz LaMere on December 27, 2008, 02:56:03 PM
I am really confused about these posting???  What did this woman do for her to deserve this attack?  Is she a bad person or something?  I am new and don't understand.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: psy on December 27, 2008, 03:58:26 PM
Quote from: "Miz LaMere"
I was not under the impression that '"GUESTS" needed a password...only registered users.  Am I wrong?

Guests do not need a password. You are correct.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: psy on December 27, 2008, 04:05:12 PM
Quote from: "Miz LaMere"
I am really confused about these posting???  What did this woman do for her to deserve this attack?  Is she a bad person or something?  I am new and don't understand.
Well.  in my opinion, she did nothing to deserve the attacks, which is why many were defending her.  Why are attacks permitted?  This forum is unmoderated (many reasons for this).  That means it can get ugly.  Also, since anybody can post as a guest, things are not always as simple as they seem at first.  I'm sure if you asked Miss Antsy Pam directly (PM or email her), she could explain a little more about at least one of the guests attacking her.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 27, 2008, 11:36:17 PM
Do u know it's kev? JS, accusations without proof..no good.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on December 27, 2008, 11:37:46 PM
Quote from: "Miz LaMere"
I am really confused about these posting???  What did this woman do for her to deserve this attack?  Is she a bad person or something?  I am new and don't understand.


Ha-Ha. You have much to learn about the ways of fornits
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: psy on December 28, 2008, 01:47:35 AM
Quote from: "bored onlooker 2"
Do u know it's kev? JS, accusations without proof..no good.
I didn't say it was Kev, but yes, I do know for sure which person posted Pam's blog.  Pam figured out who did it on her own.  There was only one person she shared that blog with besides family and that one person betrayed her and posted it here.  I'll let her state who did it, if she chooses to let it be known.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: FemanonFatal2.0 on December 28, 2008, 02:33:00 AM
Yea I know for a fact its Kev.

In fact YOU are probably Kev lol. :moon:
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Che Gookin on December 30, 2008, 12:42:01 AM
No way.. I'm the real Kev...
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Miss Antsy Pam on December 30, 2008, 08:20:36 AM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Guest"
Yes. Listen to Oscar and his rotten toothed, sees his parents 2ce a year, doesn't mind when his parents and coworkers die, and wishes to die "deep inside" (just "like everyone" in his country) wisdom on interpersonal relations!

Cultures are different around the world.  I guarantee Italians or Greeks would be offering different advice than him, for instance (famous for extended families). It doesn't make any way of running a family better or worse, just different.  Generally, the more northern you go in Europe, the colder people are, and the more southern, the warmer...  Actually I think that's mostly worldwide. I think weather has a lot to do with both culture and the temperament of different peoples.


Psy makes an interesting point, that many people might miss, pertaining to cultural differences and how extended and clannish families that operate differently that regular old middle American families handle their business.  You could describe my family as a mix of Italian and Syrian cultures...with the Catholic ideology.  In simple terms, we act like a big Italian family and are ALL very close, as we were ALL raised together.  Do we have problems?  Yes, just like any other large extended families.  Do we all agree on everything...NO, but we support the decisions of the members of the family and offer assistance, even when we DON''T necessarily agree with an action or inaction.

Culturally we ARE different as Psy so eloquently described.  We were not raised to abandon our teenagers or young adults at 18 (through 4 generations).  We "step-up" and offer emotional and financial assistance to ALL family members, young and old.  We try to take care of our own and to come from a place of "love & understanding"...even when we DON'T understand!  We don't condemn just because we MIGHT NOT understand.  This is a life long process

I have always been the rogue in my family & chose to live life differently with my son since I don't always agree with the methods my family uses to resolve issues, but I always keep n mind that they are coming from a place of "love"...as they see it!  We are all tainted by our own belief systems.  I was under the impression that 18 was a magic number and that Dylan would need to be on his own and NOT living in the family home, which he was doing at that point in his life.  He left at 17 and went to live with his girlfriend...much to my dismay!  But, hey, we all need to do what we have to do to find our own path in the world.

 Periodically, I have let him come home to re-group, but he is OUT the minute OUR relationship becomes abusive.  I offered him a chance to come home for 2008, in order to give him an opportunity to learn the "life skills" he will need to go forward with his life once I am gone...hopefully, he will get it before I am gone.  Sure, we have times of unrest, but we try to work through them

I would also like to apologize for the incorrect posting of the link to my weblog. I had inadvertently added an extra "m" to my user name...my apologies as this was not what I expected to be dealing with on Christmas Day.  Here is the correct link... http://www.xanga.com/pammy8462 (http://www.xanga.com/pammy8462).  My blog is now secure and you will have to register in order to view my "public" blogs.  No to sound harsh, but my parenting skills, however lacking, are not there to be judged, but if you feel you must...go ahead.

What the others have said is true...there was ONLY 1 person who had the link to my blog and they know who they are.  I will not lower myself to a level to even confront that person...THEY know what they did and it was done out of sheer boredom and/or petty vindictiveness.  

Yes, there have been "guests" and "registered users" that have posted on my behalf and I thank them is their desire to defend me or to give an accurate picture of what my family has been through during 2007-2008.  The one guest that posted 2 complete blog entries..with dates and posted in their entirety, was my sister in law who was quite upset by reading this thread and other like it

Like many who have said this before...can't we just end this thread and keep the focus on the work that needs to be done?
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: FemanonFatal2.0 on December 31, 2008, 12:05:41 AM
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
Like many who have said this before...can't we just end this thread and keep the focus on the work that needs to be done?

Well being that this thread is titled "WWASP experiences" I dont think it would be fair to "end the thread" on account of a few vindictive assholes, However I am in favor of encouraging new comers to feel free to use this thread as it was originally conceived to share their personal experiences within the WWASP system.

In fact if anyone would like to hear it Ill go ahead and share mine. Just give me a few days to write it out...
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Miss Antsy Pam on December 31, 2008, 09:19:57 AM
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
Like many who have said this before...can't we just end this thread and keep the focus on the work that needs to be done?

Well being that this thread is titled "WWASP experiences" I dont think it would be fair to "end the thread" on account of a few vindictive assholes, However I am in favor of encouraging new comers to feel free to use this thread as it was originally conceived to share their personal experiences within the WWASP system.

In fact if anyone would like to hear it Ill go ahead and share mine. Just give me a few days to write it out...

I stand corrected by Femanon, this IS a thread for WWASP Experiences and I would love to hear about others with WWASP Expereinces.  I look forward to you posting your story Femanon!

HAPPY NEW YEAR to ALL!
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on December 31, 2008, 02:38:04 PM
Gosh it was so long ago!!!! Let's see.......I was sent at the age of 12 to Heritage School in Provo, UT. on January 16th, 1986 (not a wwasp school). I was then transferred to Cross Creek in La Verkin, UT. sometime in May of 1989. I spent about 9 months there until I ran away on February 14th, 1990. How would I describe my stay there? Lovely, j/k lol!!! Let's see, I think they could have done things way better considering what our parents were spending. But, this was when the schools were just starting. They weren't very organized, and the program and the rules seemed to change daily making it hard to follow the rules.

The staff were not very nice. They were short tempered, and really seemed to enjoy the power of being able to punish us. We had a lot of differences. I think the fact that the majority of them were from local Mormon families, made things extremely difficult. The way they grew up was very different then how most of us grew up. I think they pretty much thought we were Satan's children, lol!!!

I liked the fact they offered therapy. I looked forward to that every week. It was my hour to be able to vent all my anger and frustration about my years away from home. Once I was 16 my therapist basically told me that I was never going home, and that I was going to be there until my 18 birthday. I think the reason he did this was because he ran out of excuses why my parents weren't allowing me to come home. I was always trying my best to work on things, and not get into trouble. I thought it was my fault that I was still there, and that it was because I was just not trying hard enough. I think the staff thought I deserved to be there. I could see why. Especially because there were times I would have incidents of hurting myself or others (usually staff). But, how the hell could you blame me??? I was put into these institutions, and basically forgotten about. For no real good reason I might add.

So, I took matters into my own hands. I took a vacuum cord and found the only window without an alarm, and flung it out the window. I almost broke my neck getting out of there, and the burns to my hands from the vacuum cord ripping through them was very painful. Did I tell you I landed right in front of a late night staff meeting in progress? Yep. Sure did! I guess they had waited until we were all in bed to have this meeting. Let me tell you how fun it was to feel the pain of the impact in the parking lot from the jump, then having to get up and run for my life!!!! It was funny seeing the look of shock, then them bolting out of their seats to get to the front door to come chasing after me!!!!!!!

They never did catch me. So, I lived a year on my own in St. George before my Aunt and Uncle found me. I then moved to California to live with them so I could graduate high school. I learned a lot from them. My 3 cousins became my brothers and sisters. I can't tell you how nice it was to finally be a part of a family who loved, and cared about me. From time to time I would make bad choices, but that is all a part of growing up. I take that back! Actually that's just a part of life!!!!!

So, Happy New Year to all of you! I'm really looking forward to being done with 2008, and getting on with 2009.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2009, 01:58:32 PM
I can honestly say WWASP saved my life. I was mad when I first was sent and even when I got out, but I learned over time after talking to my parents in depth about their choice why it really was their only option in dealing with me. I suppose I'm different from the few bitter alumni who post here because my parents really loved me, and weren't just using the program to abandon me. I did some bad things, and was not a helpful member of our family. I learned that if I wanted and deserved respect and love, I had to earn it. I feel bad for the people who's parents just left them in the program for no reason, but you can't blame WWASP for that, it sounds like a family problem. I know this isn't a popular opinion around here, but it's the God honest truth. I know for a fact if my parents had not intervened in my life, I would of ended up a  bad person, and who knows where I'd be today, probably in a gutter with a needle in my arm. I don't think I"m going to go into detail though- I've read this forum and see how you people love to tear each other apart. I think fornits is worse than any program really, having seen both.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2009, 02:34:31 PM
Quote from: "james fallone"
I can honestly say WWASP saved my life. I was mad when I first was sent and even when I got out, but I learned over time after talking to my parents in depth about their choice why it really was their only option in dealing with me. I suppose I'm different from the few bitter alumni who post here because my parents really loved me, and weren't just using the program to abandon me. I did some bad things, and was not a helpful member of our family. I learned that if I wanted and deserved respect and love, I had to earn it. I feel bad for the people who's parents just left them in the program for no reason, but you can't blame WWASP for that, it sounds like a family problem. I know this isn't a popular opinion around here, but it's the God honest truth. I know for a fact if my parents had not intervened in my life, I would of ended up a  bad person, and who knows where I'd be today, probably in a gutter with a needle in my arm. I don't think I"m going to go into detail though- I've read this forum and see how you people love to tear each other apart. I think fornits is worse than any program really, having seen both.

Learn to troll better, "James". You don't go into detail because you don't have any. I give you a 1/10.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: psy on January 02, 2009, 02:40:03 PM
Quote from: "james fallone"
I think fornits is worse than any program really, having seen both.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Right.... And we lock you up in the Hobbit here?  LOL.  Force you to lay in the ground for hours at a time?  Restrain you?  LOL.  Lie to and brainwash your parents (yes, LGAT seminars are brainwashing)?  Don't take it from me.  Listen to what a few parents have to say:

http://www.insidersview.info/canitrustthem.htm (http://www.insidersview.info/canitrustthem.htm)
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on January 03, 2009, 08:07:12 AM
Quote from: "james fallone"
I can honestly say WWASP saved my life. I was mad when I first was sent and even when I got out, but I learned over time after talking to my parents in depth about their choice why it really was their only option in dealing with me. I suppose I'm different from the few bitter alumni who post here because my parents really loved me, and weren't just using the program to abandon me. I did some bad things, and was not a helpful member of our family. I learned that if I wanted and deserved respect and love, I had to earn it. I feel bad for the people who's parents just left them in the program for no reason, but you can't blame WWASP for that, it sounds like a family problem. I know this isn't a popular opinion around here, but it's the God honest truth. I know for a fact if my parents had not intervened in my life, I would of ended up a  bad person, and who knows where I'd be today, probably in a gutter with a needle in my arm. I don't think I"m going to go into detail though- I've read this forum and see how you people love to tear each other apart. I think fornits is worse than any program really, having seen both.

I take you at your word James & am genuinely glad to hear it went well for you in the end. One philosophy I just don't get though is that a parent's love has to be earned. As a teenager I was not always an angel & came to eventually regret some of the grey hairs I gave my parents, but it was my wider family & my parents unconditional love that was in the long run what prevented me from ever falling through the cracks. I would agree that when kids mess up they need to prove themselves in order to win back a parent's trust, this is part of growing up. I should add that this process cant take place from a lock down facility. But parental love should not be earned, it is unconditional.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Miss Antsy Pam on January 03, 2009, 09:58:01 AM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "james fallone"
I think fornits is worse than any program really, having seen both.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Right.... And we lock you up in the Hobbit here?  LOL.  Force you to lay in the ground for hours at a time?  Restrain you?  LOL.  Lie to and brainwash your parents (yes, LGAT seminars are brainwashing)?  Don't take it from me.  Listen to what a few parents have to say:

http://www.insidersview.info/canitrustthem.htm (http://www.insidersview.info/canitrustthem.htm)

Hello James,

I have also seen both sides and have to agree with Psy.  Although I have been torn to shred on these forums, you can't compare Fornits to a program.  That statement in itself is ridiculous!  You can always walk away from your computer and internet connection. Fornits is the epitome of FREE SPEECH...if you don't like what you see, why come back?

If you think the program helped you, that is good for you.  Maybe you are one of the people that fall into the 98% success rate most of these programs claim.  I do not think it is a stretch to say that the bulk of survivors would NOT agree with you.  We don't see many of that 98%, but maybe YOU are the exception and fall into that success rate??

As a parent of a former WWASP detainee of 60 days, I DO NOT agree with you, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.  The amount of damage that can be done to an individual psyche in a short time can take YEARS to get over..if you ever DO get over it.  I believe that ANY time spent in these programs can do irreparable damage to one's sense of self.  

Which school were you in anyway and for how long???
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: FemanonFatal2.0 on January 05, 2009, 04:10:12 AM
I'm not going to tear you apart and I want give you a chance to prove the validity of your claims so please don't take this as an attack, but a healthy debate on this subject ok?...[/size]


Quote from: "james fallone"
I did some bad things, and was not a helpful member of our family.

I know for a fact if my parents had not intervened in my life, I would of ended up a  bad person, and who knows where I'd be today, probably in a gutter with a needle in my arm.

What exactly were your parents reasonings? Was it because you were "so out of control" and they tried EVERYTHING before they placed you in the program. Or was it because you cant exactly lock yourself up, and they assumed you wouldn't be willing to sign yourself into treatment. What exactly convinced them that the only way to save your life is to have you locked up?

I would really like to know what kinds of "bad things" you were doing that were signs (to your family and even to you) that would have inevitably landed you "in a gutter with a needle in your arm" were you as a teen anywhere close to abusing and addicted to drugs? Or were you simply "headed down that road"? Do you honestly believe that in the however many months or years you spent in a program you could have gotten yourself in enough trouble to significantly alter your path in life? DO you honestly believe that you would have NEVER matured out of the teenage phase without the strict guidance of a program? If you truly did attend the program and are not just a troll you should agree that a lot of ways the program operated was not only unnecessary but harmful. You cant tell me that the isolation and restraining techniques were in any way helpful to kids, even if it wasn't you who was being abused, you can't tell me that those kids deserved it and needed it in order to not end up a "bad person" and even if your program avoided any physical abuse, that doesn't mean that the mind games and human rights violations and separation from family and friends was "good" for any of us. Honestly I think people like you just get the fact that you were sent to a place that gave you time to think and mature as a reason to excuse the program of the CRIMES they commit. Which I dont really understand... so please explain your reason to do so.

I did bad things when I was young too, I fucked up and I was surely not a helpful member of my family (lol) but I am well aware that I was just being a rebellious teenager and I have ALWAYS been smart enough not to lead myself down a path of destruction, I didnt end up with a needle in my arm and I wouldn't have if I didnt go to the program either. I don't understand why you don't give YOURSELF the credit for maturing and becoming a successful adult, why is your strength somehow attributed to the oppression you received in the program, and furthermore why do you think its okay to just ignore the overwelming evidence that these programs are truly harmful just because you grew up?... we all grew up and we have ourselves and ourselves only to thank for that. Since the dawn of time teenagers have been growing up and none of them needed a private institution to teach them to do so, its life that teaches us these lessons and if you didn't learn them as a teen you will learn them as an adult, all the program did was hit the pause button on your life for a while and had you not gone to the program you would have ended up the same.

Your way of thinking is VERY similar to Stolkholm Syndrome, you just refuse to see the abuse as bad as long as you didnt end up more effd up in the end... maybe perhaps if you had been one of those kids who was often dragged into the OP and tortured for days on end you might sing a different song, but what surprises me is that you are willing to ignore the evidence that the program does these things to other kids just because it may not have happened to you. And if it has, and you still feel this way I can only hope you get help, that's like the girls who are molested as kids and say that they liked it because it made them into a woman. or the women who stay with abusive husbands because the fact that he hits her makes her feel like he cares about her. This is no different, and it also explains why MANY of the women who get released from these places quickly fall into abusive relationships with men. I really hope that you can take a minute to think all this over, please realize that there is a big difference between your individual success and the notion that the program is an acceptable system to be subjecting teenagers to.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Ryinthesky on January 26, 2009, 10:48:28 AM
As a former student of CSA, TB, and Cross Creek I can vouch espesially for Tranquility Bay CCFC that the school was made of some of peoples worst nightmares. Imagine the prisioners in the movie by Denzel Washington called The Seige. Well it is not quite that horrific BUT it is close. There are no lethal weapons but brutal hands. The thing that bothered me in the school was that it was not students verses the s taff for "survival" but more every man for themselves except on the occasions of two attempted riots. Had certain students not  gotten the cold feet I am fairly confident that somthing terrible or not so terrible depending on your outlook would have happened to Jay Kay. I have physical scars from "restraint", rusty nails in the planks over by the showers, and severe mosquito activity among other things across my arms  and legs. I cannot honestly say I suffer from PTSD or anything similar nor do I break down at the thought of the school (Tranquility Bay) but I will say that I certainly harbor hostilities toward at the minimum TB and CSA. My folks personally brought me to CSA when I went and it was immediate and clear that most of the staff had probably found these jobs while on line at unemployment. I will not 100% discredit some staff as some did care but had a job to do. Either way, this place was not a shall we say "top notch" academy. More like a minimum security federal prison with the farce that they called education. I lasted all of 6 months there and broke a kids  hand (it was an freak accident) and less than a week later I was in handcuffs at Atlanta boarding Air Jamaica flight 57 to Mo Bay. Needless to say this was probably one of the most frightning moments in my life to date but all in perspective.  To summerize this I spent the vast majority of my time there which lasted about a year getting my ass beat by staff, sweating my brains out in observation and not showering for days at a time thanks to glancing blows by hurricanes several times. Finally one day that Swiss Guy who worked as the doc on site from Salt Lake accidentally slipped the tounge and told me in meeting that I was going to Cross Creek in LaVerkin. Jackpot! I say that because compared to Tranquility Bay Cross Creek was like a rigid structure boarding school. Indoor warm showers, great food by comparisons, sports, protective shelter, and near by medical attention. If it were not for the restrictions against personal life placed upon students in terms of socializeing  with the girls the place would be a regular boarding school in most senses. If you can bring yourself above the mental game you can not be fazed Once you make it through TB any other school in the states is a joke. I still decided not to play along with structure and did not do much in terms of levels while I was there but when I was 17 I finally got pulled because my family realized that the program kind of was a dead end for me. My fami9ly is a bit old school Italian and their idea of out of control was out having sex with multiple girls. Long story shortened because this WILL go on for a day I had the chance about a year and a half ago to bid a trip on the equip. I fly at the carrier I am with that would give me 23 hours in Montego Bay starting in the early afternoon one day and ending an hour short of one full day. The reason I did it on a working trip was because I did not feel like shelling out $300 dollars just to go see that pothetic school in Treasure Beach. it was semi surreal to see it from the outside and I felt almost out of place and a touch panicked at momemnts  as if I was still a student of the school. And to think my freinds in school convinced me it could not have been that bad. it was though when faced with the establishment this time from the outdoors.  That night I went to  the bar on the beach and did alot of :cheers:  and put it past me for the most part. A big thank you and f#ck you for the loss of most of my teenage years to those responsible for my captivity. Pardon gramatic errors as I wrote this in a rush.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2009, 02:11:47 AM
Mrs Pam i am a former student of AIR then TB my parents also pulled me eventually after 8mo i wanted to say i think you did the right thing by sticking it out with him after words he is your baby after all. i kno that i have a son now also,hes 2.and i dont blame my parents i kno they were doing what they kew at the time whast i dont uunderstand is how some parents that r completly brainwashed by this fukin program will leave their kids(who sometimes stay a level 1-2 for yrs).......Parents WAKE-UP!!
i hope more and more ppl realize what really goes on in thses "schools".
And dont worry bout the dumb ppl on here alot of them are just some really imature angry kids  :bs:
NEway much <3 :bs:
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2009, 02:15:37 AM
Quote from: "Ariana"
And dont worry bout the dumb ppl on here alot of them are just some really imature angry kids  :bs:
NEway much <3 :bs:

True... but at least they can spell. Those red squiggly lines that underline every other of your 'words' means perhaps it deserves another look. Seriously, a dictionary, you really, really need one. ::)
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: Anonymous on April 26, 2009, 12:45:25 AM
LMAO..........Like i really give a fuck what my spellig is like on here.Obviously it was well written enough for you to understand you fucking dumbass
 :roflmao:
Title: my experiences at Cross Creek and High Impact
Post by: Acidrain85 on August 12, 2011, 10:15:28 PM
When I was 15 years old I was sent to Cross Creek Manor by my parents. My father transported me there with  my sister. I just found out yesterday that he brought my sister just so I wouldn’t run. I was at Cross Creek for 3 months. They kept me in the isolation room most of the time, and when I was out of the isolation room they made me sleep in the hallway so they could monitor me at all times. Pretty much like suicide watch. I got restrained way more times than I can count. There were quite a few times that I was restrained in my own blood. One night I was talking to the lady watching me and I accidentally woke up one of the managers (tom). He came into the isolation room and restrained me and he jammed his elbow into my back and neck. I was maybe out of special needs for 3 weeks total out of the 3 month period.  I was in there for thanksgiving and Christmas.  I wasn’t allowed to open my Christmas presents until the morning I left for High Impact and I couldn’t take any of the stuff with me. . Ron Garrett kept threatening to send me to High Impact. One morning around 2am two people came to transport me to Mexico. I had no idea I was going until they woke me up and said lets go.
   I recently found my “hope buddy” that was assigned to me when I first got to Cross Creek. I didn’t remember much other than being in the isolation room. She told me that the day I left to go to High Impact the staff were laughing because the isolation room was quiet again. She was assigned to clean the room I was in the day I left. She described it as pretty much scary. My blood was all over the place and she had never even been to the isolation room before.
   When I got to High Impact I saw the cages and the fenced in area of land that we ran our laps in. the criteria to graduate were simple… or so I thought. We had to do 60 worksheets from listening to A.A tapes and 2,000 laps around the dirt track. Then I got introduced to the consequence sheets that take away laps. If you came to high impact from home, you needed 5 consequences to get 80 laps taken away. If  you came to High Impact from another facility, it only took 1 consequence to take away 80 laps. The reason for that is because if you come from another facility you are expected to know what to do and have experience on following the rules. I spent the majority of my time there in the dog cages. Laying in R&R position. R&R position is basically like laying down in the position you would be in on a cross but laying on your stomach. I wasn’t able to move at all. If I moved any part of my body, chin legs or anything, I was restrained and had my chin grinded into the dirt and their knees were jammed into my back, neck and arms. A lot of the times I was kept in that position for hours and sometimes the whole day.
   Papa Miguel (the manager) would come down to our campsite and basically torture us. While I was there I was raped by him 5 times. The first time was on my 16th birthday. When he was done he had a staff member escort me back down to the campsite. Before I left he said “happy sweet 16” then I got shoved into the shower with my clothes on. One night I asked for my sleeping bag because it was taken from me and it was a very cold night. The over night shift called Miguel down and he basically grabbed me, threw me down, put my head in the toilet, flushed, then he pushed me in the shower and he said I had to sleep in wet clothes and still no sleeping bag. We were made to do ridiculous amounts of exercises at night before we went to bed.
   I was made to do the program over after I was done. I was there for 4 months. The average stay for High Impact was about 2 months. But Miguel decided to take all my laps away and I was made to basically re-do the program for another 2 months. Every day I would wake up and wonder if I would be alive to go to sleep that night… always wondering If it was ever going to end. I was restrained pretty much every day there. Lots of times I would black out because I couldn’t breathe. I was in the cage all day one day and sun burnt all over. I lifted my leg because the sand was extremely hot and Miguel told me to put my leg back down and I said “no”. He came into the dog cage and stood with all of his weight on the back of my knee. My skin was so sun burnt and sensitive that it just ripped open. They did nothing for my open wound. Just told me to remain laying down and not to move. I have several scars from that place. Not to mention the permanent mental scars. The day I left, the staff let me take a longer than 5 min. shower to scrub all the caked on dirt all over my body. I didn’t know I was leaving until the minute I left. Since we weren’t allowed to use our hairbrushes my hair was so gross I had dreadlocks. It took 6 staff to try and comb it out and when they couldn’t do it, it took 4 staff to cut the dreadlocks out of my hair. They basically did everything they could to make me look decent when I saw my parents. So they would think everything as ok. Ugh…
   To this day I have nightmares so bad I wake up screaming, crying, shaking, and sweating. I have flashbacks so bad that I black out and don’t even know what I am doing. I just wish I never went there. Or Cross Creek.
Title: Re: WWASP Experiences
Post by: BuzzKill on August 13, 2011, 10:46:22 AM
I've sent you a private message. Please copy and paste this and send to the address provided.

Top

Quote
my experiences at Cross Creek and High Impact

Postby Acidrain85 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:15 am
When I was 15 years old I was sent to Cross Creek Manor by my parents. My father transported me there with my sister. I just found out yesterday that he brought my sister just so I wouldn’t run. I was at Cross Creek for 3 months. They kept me in the isolation room most of the time, and when I was out of the isolation room they made me sleep in the hallway so they could monitor me at all times. Pretty much like suicide watch. I got restrained way more times than I can count. There were quite a few times that I was restrained in my own blood. One night I was talking to the lady watching me and I accidentally woke up one of the managers (tom). He came into the isolation room and restrained me and he jammed his elbow into my back and neck. I was maybe out of special needs for 3 weeks total out of the 3 month period. I was in there for thanksgiving and Christmas. I wasn’t allowed to open my Christmas presents until the morning I left for High Impact and I couldn’t take any of the stuff with me. . Ron Garrett kept threatening to send me to High Impact. One morning around 2am two people came to transport me to Mexico. I had no idea I was going until they woke me up and said lets go.
I recently found my “hope buddy” that was assigned to me when I first got to Cross Creek. I didn’t remember much other than being in the isolation room. She told me that the day I left to go to High Impact the staff were laughing because the isolation room was quiet again. She was assigned to clean the room I was in the day I left. She described it as pretty much scary. My blood was all over the place and she had never even been to the isolation room before.
When I got to High Impact I saw the cages and the fenced in area of land that we ran our laps in. the criteria to graduate were simple… or so I thought. We had to do 60 worksheets from listening to A.A tapes and 2,000 laps around the dirt track. Then I got introduced to the consequence sheets that take away laps. If you came to high impact from home, you needed 5 consequences to get 80 laps taken away. If you came to High Impact from another facility, it only took 1 consequence to take away 80 laps. The reason for that is because if you come from another facility you are expected to know what to do and have experience on following the rules. I spent the majority of my time there in the dog cages. Laying in R&R position. R&R position is basically like laying down in the position you would be in on a cross but laying on your stomach. I wasn’t able to move at all. If I moved any part of my body, chin legs or anything, I was restrained and had my chin grinded into the dirt and their knees were jammed into my back, neck and arms. A lot of the times I was kept in that position for hours and sometimes the whole day.
Papa Miguel (the manager) would come down to our campsite and basically torture us. While I was there I was raped by him 5 times. The first time was on my 16th birthday. When he was done he had a staff member escort me back down to the campsite. Before I left he said “happy sweet 16” then I got shoved into the shower with my clothes on. One night I asked for my sleeping bag because it was taken from me and it was a very cold night. The over night shift called Miguel down and he basically grabbed me, threw me down, put my head in the toilet, flushed, then he pushed me in the shower and he said I had to sleep in wet clothes and still no sleeping bag. We were made to do ridiculous amounts of exercises at night before we went to bed.
I was made to do the program over after I was done. I was there for 4 months. The average stay for High Impact was about 2 months. But Miguel decided to take all my laps away and I was made to basically re-do the program for another 2 months. Every day I would wake up and wonder if I would be alive to go to sleep that night… always wondering If it was ever going to end. I was restrained pretty much every day there. Lots of times I would black out because I couldn’t breathe. I was in the cage all day one day and sun burnt all over. I lifted my leg because the sand was extremely hot and Miguel told me to put my leg back down and I said “no”. He came into the dog cage and stood with all of his weight on the back of my knee. My skin was so sun burnt and sensitive that it just ripped open. They did nothing for my open wound. Just told me to remain laying down and not to move. I have several scars from that place. Not to mention the permanent mental scars. The day I left, the staff let me take a longer than 5 min. shower to scrub all the caked on dirt all over my body. I didn’t know I was leaving until the minute I left. Since we weren’t allowed to use our hairbrushes my hair was so gross I had dreadlocks. It took 6 staff to try and comb it out and when they couldn’t do it, it took 4 staff to cut the dreadlocks out of my hair. They basically did everything they could to make me look decent when I saw my parents. So they would think everything as ok. Ugh…
To this day I have nightmares so bad I wake up screaming, crying, shaking, and sweating. I have flashbacks so bad that I black out and don’t even know what I am doing. I just wish I never went there. Or Cross Creek.
Title: Chris Landre Book: WWASP Experiences w/ 7 family members
Post by: jmelder12 on March 13, 2012, 08:00:35 PM
I am a mother of 12 children, with a blended after the death of a parent from each family.  We had two teens that were in serious trouble, and felt they wouldn't be around much longer unless we did something drastic.  We sent the first young man to the facility in Samoa in 1997.  He was there for about 12 months.  We went and toured it at the 12 month point.  He then finished up at Cross Creek for another 4 months or so.  He would tell you today, 15 years later, that he is very greatful we sent him.  He has since served a mission for his church for two years in Guam, and is now happily married with two sweet boys, and has graduated from business school and has a successful business with a team of young men selling bug spray contracts.    

Several years later, we felt the need to send aour 2nd boy to the program.  This time it was at Cross Creek.  For the first 3 months, the other young men in the program all wondered why his parents had sent him.  Then it became apparent.  He is doing fabulous as a father of two small children, and a beautiful and loving wife.

Both sons had their closest cousins join the program.  Other nieces and nephews of mine (7 total) have participated in the WWASP Programs...ALL SUCCESSFULLY.  The parents too have gone through their seminars.  Another son became a facilitator in another similar teen help program with girls.  He felt the WWASP was more effective.  I sing their praises, along with their parents, and the teens who went through.  

I met literally hundreds of parents at the seminars who were so happy for the results they were getting with WWASP.  Many of those parents had been in other programs that sucked their money dry, and no results.  They were so greatful to find WWASP programs.  

I am sorry for those who didn't have such a great experience.  I am sure it isn't perfect (I don't know anyone who is), but I have been so impressed with the results of their philosophy.  

QUESTION:  Does anyone out there know where I can get ahold of the book:  by The CS Landre Foundation telling Chris Landre's Story along with several others?
Title: Looking for Chris Landre book
Post by: jmelder12 on March 13, 2012, 08:03:52 PM
Does anyone know where I can get the book written by The CS Landre Foundation?  It is about Chris Landre, and several other young teens that went to the WWASP Programs?
Title: Re: Looking for Chris Landre book
Post by: Oscar on March 14, 2012, 10:23:03 AM
Quote from: "jmelder12"
Does anyone know where I can get the book written by The CS Landre Foundation?  It is about Chris Landre, and several other young teens that went to the WWASP Programs?

While searching for Lance Landre and the foundation, I fould traces of various lawsuits. The domain is inactive, so I guess that they were taken down due to legal fees.