Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: DannyB II on October 04, 2010, 02:52:52 PM
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No, you just made that statement up. Why would you lie like that to promote child abuse?
The article I quoted was already sourced in this thread by Shadyacres ( I quoted directly from his citation) and none of what you wrote was in it. In fact, nothing you wrote exists on the internet anywhere except your post. Why did you fabricate that false information about ASR?
Once you provide the link to your thread you will see the next one further down. Put your link up first. You stated earlier we could find it but it doesnt exist which seems misleading. Let us know. I think the two posts flow together nicely. See what you can find.
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Here Whooter is posing as an Aspen Ranch “graduate” (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=12902&p=344859#p344859) and telling people not to tell him he’s lying. Well, I guess that makes it believable then? Fail, Whooter. Fail.
I just recently left Aspen Ranch (during the July parent week), graduating as a Rider. I was there for over 16 months! The substance abuse counselor was my primary therapist! I had a lot of problems going there, personal as well as a fucked up family. I've now ben home for 3 months and am doing great. I haven't relapsed or really even considered it.
Aspen was a great place! We didn't get pizza from the local place once a week, but we did get it on parent week and for special occasions. The food wasn't great but it was certainly bearable (and I'm picky!). The staff was AWESOME (most anyways), they were very caring and devoted. There have been MANY changes in staff and rules in the past 6 months there as well, so check it out! Sure I had my rough times, everyone does! I would defenitely recommend it if you're kids having a rough time, but be sure to check it out before to see if you think your kid would be a good fit.
And to whoever posted about seeing kids doing pull-ups with a man with a radio....he was the personal trainer! I was in Personal Training for over a year there and it helped a lot! I've never heard a complaint about PT, kids can sign up for an extra fee through a past navy seal who really pushes you hard! And there's a LONG waiting list.
Thanks, and please no one tell me I'm lying....when I left I was 2nd in seniority out of everyone there at the time! And to those parents who have kids there now...I wouldn't doubt if I knew them!
This is what Whooter does here. Everything he posts is a lie in one way or another. Danny is his puppet, so don't look far Danny to question what Whooter says, even though he clearly "fabricated" it. Danny only goes after program kids for "fabricating," not the adults that lock kids up in abusive Aspen facilities. Danny thinks it's OK to lie about your "sources" of information too. He claims to have lots of "sources" too, but they're all made up as well. Welcome to Fornits!
Nobody here assigns any credibility to either of these jackasses. Don't bother with them because we all already know they're not capable of being honest. Danny dragged a kid behind his car when he was a staff member because she was "fat and ugly" and Danny thought she needed his form of "treatment" for being "fat and ugly." That's the kind of psycho crazies that spend their days here!
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Here Whooter is posing as an Aspen Ranch “graduate” (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=12902&p=344859#p344859) and telling people not to tell him he’s lying. Well, I guess that makes it believable then? Fail, Whooter. Fail.
I just recently left Aspen Ranch (during the July parent week), graduating as a Rider. I was there for over 16 months! The substance abuse counselor was my primary therapist! I had a lot of problems going there, personal as well as a fucked up family. I've now ben home for 3 months and am doing great. I haven't relapsed or really even considered it.
Aspen was a great place! We didn't get pizza from the local place once a week, but we did get it on parent week and for special occasions. The food wasn't great but it was certainly bearable (and I'm picky!). The staff was AWESOME (most anyways), they were very caring and devoted. There have been MANY changes in staff and rules in the past 6 months there as well, so check it out! Sure I had my rough times, everyone does! I would defenitely recommend it if you're kids having a rough time, but be sure to check it out before to see if you think your kid would be a good fit.
And to whoever posted about seeing kids doing pull-ups with a man with a radio....he was the personal trainer! I was in Personal Training for over a year there and it helped a lot! I've never heard a complaint about PT, kids can sign up for an extra fee through a past navy seal who really pushes you hard! And there's a LONG waiting list.
Thanks, and please no one tell me I'm lying....when I left I was 2nd in seniority out of everyone there at the time! And to those parents who have kids there now...I wouldn't doubt if I knew them!
This is what Whooter does here. Everything he posts is a lie in one way or another. Danny is his puppet, so don't look far Danny to question what Whooter says, even though he clearly "fabricated" it. Danny only goes after program kids for "fabricating," not the adults that lock kids up in abusive Aspen facilities. Danny thinks it's OK to lie about your "sources" of information too. He claims to have lots of "sources" too, but they're all made up as well. Welcome to Fornits!
Nobody here assigns any credibility to either of these jackasses. Don't bother with them because we all already know they're not capable of being honest. Danny dragged a kid behind his car when he was a staff member because she was "fat and ugly" and Danny thought she needed his form of "treatment" for being "fat and ugly." That's the kind of psycho crazies that spend their days here!
Wow, lots of anger. Why not just ask, Yeoman? Most of the time I have an explanation. You should give a person a chance to explain before tossing them under the bus.
There are a few of those, Watchful Yeoman, I took those stories from ASR chat sites and various places here on fornits. That originally was posted Here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=223240#p223240) In hindsight I should have provided links.
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No, you just made that statement up. Why would you lie like that to promote child abuse?
The article I quoted was already sourced in this thread by Shadyacres ( I quoted directly from his citation) and none of what you wrote was in it. In fact, nothing you wrote exists on the internet anywhere except your post. Why did you fabricate that false information about ASR?
Once you provide the link to your thread you will see the next one further down. Put your link up first. You stated earlier we could find it but it doesnt exist which seems misleading. Let us know. I think the two posts flow together nicely. See what you can find.
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Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=30975#p374568)
This will help people understand why Whooter lies about programs.
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In my program we were allowed to talk to our parents and friends whenever we wanted to. The program encouraged us to have close relationships with our families even though we were separated by thousands of miles and my parents never came to visit me. To make up for the missed visits the staff would do special things for me.
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Your special touch and all the readers will enjoy this, "Danny dragged a girl behind a car because she was fat and ugly", well the "Statue Of Limitations" would not be over on this charge because I would have killed her or at the very least damn near.
:waaaa: :waaaa: :waaaa: So sorry Yo Yo, for not making you happy today.
Speaking of this, you never did answer the question as to what happened with that, AFAIK. Did you actually drag a girl behind a van? If you did answer, please point me to the link where you did because I must have missed it and would really like to hear your side of the story.
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So according to Whoot the kids in programs are denied contact with their families to prevent them from being abused by their family members? What?
Well, Shaggys, you seem to following some other posters passion to misrepresent what I say.
Lets say that a child has been abused by their Uncle Chucky. This child has been placed into a program and is undergoing therapy and this information comes to light. It may be suggested that contact with this family member should be suspended.
I dont think cutting off communication with this family member would be abusive to the child, in fact it would be abusive to allow this child contact with the Uncle. Think along the same lines as friends sending in packages. I think we can all agree that as a minimum the packages should be searched or opened in front of staff.
But that's not what we're talking about and you know that. We're talking about withholding communication from parents and other close family until the child "earns" the right.
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In my program we were allowed to talk to our parents and friends whenever we wanted to. The program encouraged us to have close relationships with our families even though we were separated by thousands of miles and my parents never came to visit me. To make up for the missed visits the staff would do special things for me.
Again I'd like to ask which program this is. You say that there is a forum dedicated here on Fornits to the place you were in and you tell these glowing tales of how wonderful it was but you refuse to name it. If what you stated above is true, I'd like to check it out. Who knows......it may just change at least part of my view of them because that's one of the bigger issues I have with programs - that they cut off communication with family and when it is allowed, it's monitored to make sure the child doesn't say anything negative about the program.
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So according to Whoot the kids in programs are denied contact with their families to prevent them from being abused by their family members? What?
Well, Shaggys, you seem to following some other posters passion to misrepresent what I say.
Lets say that a child has been abused by their Uncle Chucky. This child has been placed into a program and is undergoing therapy and this information comes to light. It may be suggested that contact with this family member should be suspended.
I dont think cutting off communication with this family member would be abusive to the child, in fact it would be abusive to allow this child contact with the Uncle. Think along the same lines as friends sending in packages. I think we can all agree that as a minimum the packages should be searched or opened in front of staff.
But that's not what we're talking about and you know that. We're talking about withholding communication from parents and other close family until the child "earns" the right.
Of course they have to earn the right to talk to their families. What family is going to let their kid that's in a program for being bad dictate the agenda? I mean, come on, Anne, what are you thinking? Most of these kids did really terrible things to their families to get put in programs in the first place and then you want to reward them for that by giving them privileges like phone time home?
Look at Whooter's point objectively and stop trying to sick the fornits psychos on everyone that has common sense. If a kid was abused at home by Uncle Chucky then allowing that kid to talk to anyone from home would be abusive. That's why the kid chose the program-to get away from Uncle Chucky. Plus, the kid that was abused at home is tougher than the other kids and can take it better. Imagine if the kid was abused after the program. He'd have the tools to deal with it and move on with his life, thanks to the program. Because of its highly structured nature it prepares kids better with tools to handle the sexual abuse by a family member and when the kid gets sent home into the same environment he'll be better prepared to deal with that abuse when it happens again.
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In my program we were allowed to talk to our parents and friends whenever we wanted to. The program encouraged us to have close relationships with our families even though we were separated by thousands of miles and my parents never came to visit me. To make up for the missed visits the staff would do special things for me.
Again I'd like to ask which program this is. You say that there is a forum dedicated here on Fornits to the place you were in and you tell these glowing tales of how wonderful it was but you refuse to name it. If what you stated above is true, I'd like to check it out. Who knows......it may just change at least part of my view of them because that's one of the bigger issues I have with programs - that they cut off communication with family and when it is allowed, it's monitored to make sure the child doesn't say anything negative about the program.
Yeah, sure. Why don't I just give you my full name, address and social security number? I see what happenes when you people get hold of someone's identity. Next thing you will see is my picture on a porn site. My program has its own dedicated subforum here and is no longer in operation, so I see no need to go into that any further. Suffice it to say it saved my life. Without it I'd be still using drugs every day and drinking every day or maybe back in a psychiatric hospital. I learned that I can have slips and I still do. Just because I still do drugs and drink doesn't mean my program was not successful in changing my life around. It was.
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Just because I still do drugs and drink doesn't mean my program was not successful in changing my life around. It was.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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In my program we were allowed to talk to our parents and friends whenever we wanted to. The program encouraged us to have close relationships with our families even though we were separated by thousands of miles and my parents never came to visit me. To make up for the missed visits the staff would do special things for me.
Again I'd like to ask which program this is. You say that there is a forum dedicated here on Fornits to the place you were in and you tell these glowing tales of how wonderful it was but you refuse to name it. If what you stated above is true, I'd like to check it out. Who knows......it may just change at least part of my view of them because that's one of the bigger issues I have with programs - that they cut off communication with family and when it is allowed, it's monitored to make sure the child doesn't say anything negative about the program.
Yeah, sure. Why don't I just give you my full name, address and social security number? I see what happenes when you people get hold of someone's identity. Next thing you will see is my picture on a porn site. My program has its own dedicated subforum here and is no longer in operation, so I see no need to go into that any further. Suffice it to say it saved my life. Without it I'd be still using drugs every day and drinking every day or maybe back in a psychiatric hospital. I learned that I can have slips and I still do. Just because I still do drugs and drink doesn't mean my program was not successful in changing my life around. It was.
I never asked you for your identity and saying which program "saved your life" won't give your identity away either. You just know it wouldn't hold up to scrutiny, so you take the chicken-shit way out. I wonder why it closed down?
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Oh, great. I won't do what you want me to so you start with the name calling. Why do you fornits retards think that everyone that doesn't do what you want them to is somehow "chickenshit"?
I already told you that my program saved my life, has its own subforum here on Fornits and has stopped operating. what elese do you people want from me? To admit I was "abused"? Please. What you call abuse and what I call abuse are two totally different things.
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Yeah, sure. Why don't I just give you my full name, address and social security number? I see what happenes when you people get hold of someone's identity. Next thing you will see is my picture on a porn site. My program has its own dedicated subforum here and is no longer in operation, so I see no need to go into that any further. Suffice it to say it saved my life.
Yes, I have heard you say that before and it rings just as false now. You and Whooter are as scary as posters here get, yet I still posted the programs I was in, sissy.
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I already told you that my program saved my life, has its own subforum here on Fornits and has stopped operating. what elese do you people want from me?
To know what program it was, how it saved your life and why it stopped operating. Why are those such difficult questions?
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It stopped operating because of a frivolous lawsuit brought by parents who pulled their kids out early and wanted refunds. They did nothing wrong. All they did was help families and that's the thanks they got. I'm not going to drag them through the mud here for you people.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
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OK, so first, you're concerned about letting all of us 'quitters' have any information about your program because you are afraid of someone using this information to blackmail you somehow. Now, you are protecting an innocent program from getting it's name dragged through the mud. Sounds to me like you are using whatever lie you think will work best in the situation. If the program you went to was so blameless and honorable, why do they need your protection?
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They don't. like I said, they're no longer operating. This is getting boring.
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Contact? Don't you think you're giving it away a little easily, Maximillian?
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They don't. like I said, they're no longer operating. This is getting boring.
Sure is, according to you there is no "mud", so how can we drag your program's name through it? You are not making any sense.
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They don't. like I said, they're no longer operating. This is getting boring.
Ok, so how did they save your life? What methods did they use that helped you? It's a fair question Max.
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First they took me out of the home where I was not doing well and brought me to the program where there was structure. I needed that very badly. I needed someone to tell me when to go to bed, when to wake up, when to exercise, when to go to the bathroom, when to eat and when to talk. I was out of control. Then I got group therapy from my counselor with the other kids every couple of days or more if needed. School was so-so. I didn't really learn much or earn any high school credits, but I was skipping school at home, so no real difference there. The program got me back on track. I didn't really qualify for college when I got home so I got my GED and because my parents have some influence they were able to get me into a good college outside of Boston and I graduate next year. My life is great and without the program's help I would probably be in jail or dead.
Sounds like your parents sucked at their job, so they outsourced it to a place so fucked up so badly that it was closed because of the abuse.
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I already told you it was closed because of a frivolous lawsuit, not abuse. And leave my parents out of it. They sent me to the program as a last resort and it saved my life. Was it abusive? Not to me. I saw some kids have things done to them that clearly weren't right, but nobody was charged with a crime for it. If there was abuse, somebody would have been arrested and nobody was.
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I already told you it was closed because of a frivolous lawsuit, not abuse.
Must not have been so frivolous if it closed.
And leave my parents out of it. They sent me to the program as a last resort and it saved my life. Was it abusive? Not to me. I saw some kids have things done to them that clearly weren't right, but nobody was charged with a crime for it.
So that makes it ok and doesn't do any damage to the kid, right? ::)
If there was abuse, somebody would have been arrested and nobody was.
oh pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze.
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And africans just became worthy of equal treatment by American law in the mid 20th century. If they had deserved equality before then, they would have gotten it. Right Max?
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This is the drama I keep referring to. Look, Anne most people understand that there are many frivolous lawsuits filed. A lot of time the defendants choose not to fight the lawsuit because of the costs. Instead they settle. Sometimes it's better for them financially to shut down the program and reopen it later under a different name that doesn't have any bad PR attached to it. It's still the same great program with the same great employees but the allegations of abuse are gone and the program gets a fresh start. Look at MBA. Aspen sued the state and they agreed to settle rather than fight. Now MBA can reopen on the same site with the same staff and be free from all of the abuse charges. If you listened to people who know better than you, you would have seen that Whooter knew this was going to happen before it ever did. He was saying months ago that they would reopen under a new name to distance themselves from the abuse cases, but continue to run the same great program. He actually has the connections to know this. You don't so stop pretending.
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Max has already stated that she does not believe in any form of abuse which the perpetrator isn't arrested for. So if someone sexually abuses you but the police are never called that means the abuse didn't actually happen. The logic of maxit. Pretty disturbing isn't it.
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This is the drama I keep referring to. Look, Anne most people understand that there are many frivolous lawsuits filed. A lot of time the defendants choose not to fight the lawsuit because of the costs. Instead they settle. Sometimes it's better for them financially to shut down the program and reopen it later under a different name that doesn't have any bad PR attached to it. It's still the same great program with the same great employees but the allegations of abuse are gone and the program gets a fresh start.
And you don't think new parents have a right to learn that the program their sending their kids to was formerly shut down amidst accusations of abuse? Wow. I'm glad I'm not your kid.
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This is the drama I keep referring to. Look, Anne most people understand that there are many frivolous lawsuits filed. A lot of time the defendants choose not to fight the lawsuit because of the costs. Instead they settle. Sometimes it's better for them financially to shut down the program and reopen it later under a different name that doesn't have any bad PR attached to it. It's still the same great program with the same great employees but the allegations of abuse are gone and the program gets a fresh start. Look at MBA. Aspen sued the state and they agreed to settle rather than fight. Now MBA can reopen on the same site with the same staff and be free from all of the abuse charges. If you listened to people who know better than you, you would have seen that Whooter knew this was going to happen before it ever did. He was saying months ago that they would reopen under a new name to distance themselves from the abuse cases, but continue to run the same great program. He actually has the connections to know this. You don't so stop pretending.
You don't need 'connections' to predict that a program will corrupt or scare local authority, then change it's name to avoid the stain of its previous transgressions. It is their standard M/O.
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This is the drama I keep referring to. Look, Anne most people understand that there are many frivolous lawsuits filed. A lot of time the defendants choose not to fight the lawsuit because of the costs. Instead they settle. Sometimes it's better for them financially to shut down the program and reopen it later under a different name that doesn't have any bad PR attached to it. It's still the same great program with the same great employees but the allegations of abuse are gone and the program gets a fresh start. Look at MBA. Aspen sued the state and they agreed to settle rather than fight. Now MBA can reopen on the same site with the same staff and be free from all of the abuse charges. If you listened to people who know better than you, you would have seen that Whooter knew this was going to happen before it ever did. He was saying months ago that they would reopen under a new name to distance themselves from the abuse cases, but continue to run the same great program. He actually has the connections to know this. You don't so stop pretending.
You don't need 'connections' to predict that a program will corrupt or scare local authority, then change it's name to avoid the stain of its previous transgressions. It is their standard M/O.
OK, then explain how he knows what's in the settlement then.
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This is the drama I keep referring to. Look, Anne most people understand that there are many frivolous lawsuits filed. A lot of time the defendants choose not to fight the lawsuit because of the costs. Instead they settle. Sometimes it's better for them financially to shut down the program and reopen it later under a different name that doesn't have any bad PR attached to it. It's still the same great program with the same great employees but the allegations of abuse are gone and the program gets a fresh start. Look at MBA. Aspen sued the state and they agreed to settle rather than fight. Now MBA can reopen on the same site with the same staff and be free from all of the abuse charges. If you listened to people who know better than you, you would have seen that Whooter knew this was going to happen before it ever did. He was saying months ago that they would reopen under a new name to distance themselves from the abuse cases, but continue to run the same great program. He actually has the connections to know this. You don't so stop pretending.
You don't need 'connections' to predict that a program will corrupt or scare local authority, then change it's name to avoid the stain of its previous transgressions. It is their standard M/O.
OK, then explain how he knows what's in the settlement then.
He lies about his connections with the TTI.
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I was asking slim Shadyacres.
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I was asking slim Shadyacres.
I don't care.
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This is the drama I keep referring to. Look, Anne most people understand that there are many frivolous lawsuits filed. A lot of time the defendants choose not to fight the lawsuit because of the costs. Instead they settle. Sometimes it's better for them financially to shut down the program and reopen it later under a different name that doesn't have any bad PR attached to it. It's still the same great program with the same great employees but the allegations of abuse are gone and the program gets a fresh start. Look at MBA. Aspen sued the state and they agreed to settle rather than fight. Now MBA can reopen on the same site with the same staff and be free from all of the abuse charges. If you listened to people who know better than you, you would have seen that Whooter knew this was going to happen before it ever did. He was saying months ago that they would reopen under a new name to distance themselves from the abuse cases, but continue to run the same great program. He actually has the connections to know this. You don't so stop pretending.
You don't need 'connections' to predict that a program will corrupt or scare local authority, then change it's name to avoid the stain of its previous transgressions. It is their standard M/O.
OK, then explain how he knows what's in the settlement then.
Actually, I'd like Whooter to explain that. If he has insider knowledge of this case, I'd like him to explain to us exactly how he got it.
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Programs do allow open communication between parents and child. There is typically at least one parent or family member that the child can speak to on a weekly basis.
There is a misconception circulating here on fornits that programs don't allow this communication. but it is not true.
That's not open communication. Open communication says that a child has the right to say, "I need to call my parents", and is then given access to a phone.
At HLA, a program that was shut down due to a legitmate lawsuit and factual allegations of abuse, communication was highly restricted. A inmate had to earn the ability to call home. Letters must be first be sent and recieved before any phone calls were allowed. No letters would be given or sent out with out first being approved. If a inmate wrote, "This place sucks, I hate it here." Sorry kiddo, that letter isn't going anywhere but the trash can. They refer to that one as 'lying'. If a child wrote, "The staff here is horrible. I'm being abused, here's what happened:.....". Well at HLA that was refered to as 'manipulating' and would never be mailed out. If a child who was abused by a parent says something like, "I hate you for what you did to me." Well that's called being abusive and also will be thrown in the trash. If a parent writes to a child and says, "I'm not sure I like that place. I'm thinking about taking you out of there. Tell me what's going on." You can rest assured the child will never see that letter.
Phone calls are no different. A "counselor" sits in on all ten minute phone calls (15 depending on how long you've been there) and the second you say something they on't like, the call is disconnected.
Whenever a child is placed on restrictions he is denied phone calls with his parents until he comes off. Counselors communicate for the child during this time.
None of this falls under open communication, and all of it is abusive.
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thomas C
That's some pretty compelling stuff. It's got to be hard to go back and even read. I wish now that I would have saved my moral inventories.
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That's not open communication. Open communication says that a child has the right to say, "I need to call my parents", and is then given access to a phone.
At HLA, a program that was shut down due to a legitmate lawsuit and factual allegations of abuse, communication was highly restricted. A inmate had to earn the ability to call home. Letters must be first be sent and recieved before any phone calls were allowed. No letters would be given or sent out with out first being approved. If a inmate wrote, "This place sucks, I hate it here." Sorry kiddo, that letter isn't going anywhere but the trash can. They refer to that one as 'lying'. If a child wrote, "The staff here is horrible. I'm being abused, here's what happened:.....". Well at HLA that was refered to as 'manipulating' and would never be mailed out. If a child who was abused by a parent says something like, "I hate you for what you did to me." Well that's called being abusive and also will be thrown in the trash. If a parent writes to a child and says, "I'm not sure I like that place. I'm thinking about taking you out of there. Tell me what's going on." You can rest assured the child will never see that letter.
Phone calls are no different. A "counselor" sits in on all ten minute phone calls (15 depending on how long you've been there) and the second you say something they on't like, the call is disconnected.
Whenever a child is placed on restrictions he is denied phone calls with his parents until he comes off. Counselors communicate for the child during this time.
None of this falls under open communication, and all of it is abusive.
Outside of fornits the kids inside of HLA are referred to as “students” by most of the population and the state of Georgia refers to them as “Residents”. So the use of the term “Inmate” sets the tone and we need to view your post as misleading or greatly exaggerated. So after we filter out the exaggerations we see that the students were allowed to speak with their parents and say whatever they wish to. Some students, like yourself, who requested to call your parents during dinner time and you were denied and therefore you felt abused and isolated when in fact you were just being impatient and rude.
Counselors never hang up on the parents, we know this. At the very least they would apologize for their childs' rude behavior and offer to call them back after they settled you down a bit.
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Robert always exaggerates and uses loaded language. The record needs to be set straight on this one. HLA had residents. HLA reopened as Ridge Creek School and has residents and inmates from the state prison system in the same facility. Robert likes to blow things out of proportion. Only RCS has inmates, Robert. HLA never did. This is always what gets me about you extremists here.
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A lot of us use that term because that's how we felt.....like we were inmates in a prison.
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Well we can't all just run around loading language based on our own feelings now can we? Get real. Robert attempted to mislead readers by saying there were inmates at HLA when it has been proven that only RCS, formerly HLA but no longer, takes inmates from the state prison system into the same facility where it takes private pay residents/students for its program. HLA never did that.
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Well we can't all just run around loading language based on our own feelings now can we? Get real. Robert attempted to mislead readers by saying there were inmates at HLA when it has been proven that only RCS, formerly HLA but no longer, takes inmates from the state prison system into the same facility where it takes private pay residents/students for its program. HLA never did that.
Fine, then Aspen has to stop telling people they provide therapy of any kind.
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You miss the distinction here. Lack of nuanced thought I guess. But for something to be therapeutic it does not necessarily mean it has to be therapy. The counselors could take the kids outside in the evening and watch the sunset while they play spades or trade their commisary items and this could be therapeutic. Therefore they call it a "therapeutic boarding school" and not "therapy", Anne. Anything therapeutic counts. That's not misleading anyone. If the night watchman feels like it's therapeutic to let the kids wrestle, horseplay or have a fght club like we had (those were fun times) then it would be considered a "therapeutic boarding school" and rightfully so as long as there's some school or self study like we had too, of course. If the LifeSteps are done then that is therapeutic, too. And there's always groups. See Anne, there are lots of things you're missing in this analysis.
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You miss the distinction here. Lack of nuanced thought I guess. But for something to be therapeutic it does not necessarily mean it has to be therapy. The counselors could take the kids outside in the evening and watch the sunset while they play spades or trade their commisary items and this could be therapeutic. Therefore they call it a "therapeutic boarding school" and not "therapy", Anne. Anything therapeutic counts. That's not misleading anyone. If the night watchman feels like it's therapeutic to let the kids wrestle, horseplay or have a fght club like we had (those were fun times) then it would be considered a "therapeutic boarding school" and rightfully so as long as there's some school or self study like we had too, of course.
I'm not missing anything. Aspen and other programs advertise that they provide therapy. They tout credentials that people don't actually have and intentionally mislead parents into believing that their kids are receiving true psychological counseling and therapy when what they're really getting is LGAT pseudo-psychobabble. They're today's snakeoil salesmen.
If the LifeSteps are done then that is therapeutic, too.
No, it's not.
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Anything tht is deemed therapeutic counts, Anne. I'm sorry but those are the rules we are playing under. Some people don't like the rules and that's fine but they should start voting or try to change the laws. The schools are clean and we all know that. They operate under the rules. At my program when we were defiant and wouldn't do what the counselors told us to then they would give us what was called work assignments. Basically you had to take care of the grounds, mow, pick weeds, paint the director's fence and house, clean his bathroom, wash his car and boat, some light electrical and plumbing (nothing with a torch, of course lol) and any other facility type work that needed doing. By doing this work, our counselors taught us we were buying into the program. By doing this facility labor we were getting a kind of sweat equity in the facility. We could be proud that we took care of our own property and didn't have to go out and hire maintenence workers. We did it. We bought into the program by doing this labor and became less defiant and more open to the teachings of the program so we could get back on trak and become successful. Sometimes if there weren't any facility jobs that needed doing we would just move a big rockpile back and forth along this little runway. Move pile to one end, move pile to other end and repeat. The rocks were symbolic of our hard head that we had to carry around with us until we decided to let the staff start to change us for the better.
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Anything tht is deemed therapeutic counts, Anne. I'm sorry but those are the rules we are playing under. Some people don't like the rules and that's fine but they should start voting or try to change the laws. The schools are clean and we all know that. They operate under the rules. At my program when we were defiant and wouldn't do what the counselors told us to then they would give us what was called work assignments. Basically you had to take care of the grounds, mow, pick weeds, paint the director's fence and house, clean his bathroom, wash his car and boat, some light electrical and plumbing (nothing with a torch, of course lol) and any other facility type work that needed doing. By doing this work, our counselors taught us we were buying into the program. By doing this facility labor we were getting a kind of sweat equity in the facility. We could be proud that we took care of our own property and didn't have to go out and hire maintenence workers. We did it. We bought into the program by doing this labor and became less defiant and more open to the teachings of the program so we could get back on trak and become successful. Sometimes if there weren't any facility jobs that needed doing we would just move a big rockpile back and forth along this little runway. Move pile to one end, move pile to other end and repeat. The rocks were symbolic of our hard head that we had to carry around with us until we decided to let the staff start to change us for the better.
You fought the law, but the law won...
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Anything tht is deemed therapeutic counts, Anne. I'm sorry but those are the rules we are playing under. Some people don't like the rules and that's fine but they should start voting or try to change the laws. The schools are clean and we all know that. They operate under the rules. At my program when we were defiant and wouldn't do what the counselors told us to then they would give us what was called work assignments. Basically you had to take care of the grounds, mow, pick weeds, paint the director's fence and house, clean his bathroom, wash his car and boat, some light electrical and plumbing (nothing with a torch, of course lol) and any other facility type work that needed doing. By doing this work, our counselors taught us we were buying into the program. (yeah, it's called indoctrination) By doing this facility labor we were getting a kind of sweat equity in the facility. We could be proud that we took care of our own property and didn't have to go out and hire maintenence workers. We did it. We bought into the program by doing this labor and became less defiant and more open to the teachings of the program so we could get back on trak and become successful. Sometimes if there weren't any facility jobs that needed doing we would just move a big rockpile back and forth along this little runway. Move pile to one end, move pile to other end and repeat. The rocks were symbolic of our hard head that we had to carry around with us until we decided to let the staff start to change us for the better.
Satire, right? This can't be serious.
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Satire, right? This can't be serious.
This seemed pretty obvious last night.. i forget which post it was that clued me in, but yeah...
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That's what they called it "Buying into the program". It makes sense because if you don't buy into it, it can't help you either. I think that's just common sense. Like in the LifeSteps when they have you dress up as the opposite sex and role play as a woman or whatever you have to open up yourself and go for it or it won't work for you. I had to wear like a little lace nightie that looked like a stripper costume and I had to dance around in front of all the staff as a symbol of how disrespectful I was of women, especially my mother who I did terrible things to and said terrible things about, so I could learn how it felt to be treated that way. I learned from it but only because I bought into it completely like my parents wanted.
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Satire, right? This can't be serious.
This seemed pretty obvious last night.. i forget which post it was that clued me in, but yeah...
It gets weird when you can't tell the parodies from the real programmies, i.e. Poe's law.
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Whooter..Where in the world has the pope declared and the Catholics declared that they have accepted homosexuality? That is incorrect info..sorry Whooter try again!
The pope was born in like 1920. If they told him what was going on he would have a heart attack.
More and more accepted by this world eh? Is that why when I tried to turn to survivors for support - people that were friends of mine for years about the harsh break-up from myself and my partner I was treated just so nicely here? Is that why I had a str8 friend think I was coming onto her when I called her babe b/c she felt sick? Wow Wake up Whooter....WOW is that why kids are committing suicide because us homosexuals are so well and widely accepted. Please quit talking about what you do not know.
I am an adult bi-sexual and still not accepted and loved by many b/c I am gay. I speak from experience , not speculation.
-DP
I didnt say that homosexuals are completely accepted in society. I am saying (from my perspective) that their acceptance has come a long way since the 1960's and in another generation they will be almost completely integrated and accepted. Back in the 1960's the word Gay was a slur. They were not accepted at all and were referred to as fruit cakes or as a birth defect of some type. They would marry woman and have kids because that was what was accepted of men in those days. They started having sex with each other in San Fransisco which caused the Aids Virus which proved that homosexuality was unnatural and needed to be treated like a disease.
People are still curious about homosexuals today and what makes them tick. But they are much more open now and accepted in the business world and society in general. Straight kids and homosexuals commit suicide, maybe not at the same rate. Parents are more accepting of gay children than 50 years ago but they would still prefer a straight child over a gay one I would guess and that is why the kids are not open to telling their parents that they are gay and feel much more humiliated if they are outed on the internet like what happened recently. If this were a straight kid he may still feel humiliated knowing his family may be seeing it but it would pale in comparison to a child who was having a homosexual relationship.
I didnt see you being treated badly because of your sexual orientation here on fornits. People are treated badly here in general. I am not gay but I am treated pretty bad at times.
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This is one of the smartest things ever said on Fornits. You people should learn from this man.
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Exactly my point.
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A lot of us use that term because that's how we felt.....like we were inmates in a prison.
Well for some of us who were in prison and know damn well you never were, it is like a slap in the face. Because you don't know a darn thing about Juvenile Detention Centers, County/Town/City Jails or Prisons.
So please do not refer to yourselves as inmates. Most of you were rich snotty little kids who finally got your butts whipped and want to cry about it now or not.
I'm not judging, I'm just say'in.
Anne there was abuse in the programs on a large scale back in the day but let me tell ya, it was nothing like the peer-pressure you would have received in prison.
Not according to 5 people who I was in Straight with that ended up in prison. They all said they'd rather do time in prison than Straight. Note that I'm saying that they said that.....I didn't because I don't know.
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Satire, right? This can't be serious.
This seemed pretty obvious last night.. i forget which post it was that clued me in, but yeah...
It gets weird when you can't tell the parodies from the real programmies, i.e. Poe's law.
Anne, we all agree with you,
Thanks!
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A lot of us use that term because that's how we felt.....like we were inmates in a prison.
Well for some of us who were in prison and know damn well you never were, it is like a slap in the face. Because you don't know a darn thing about Juvenile Detention Centers, County/Town/City Jails or Prisons.
So please do not refer to yourselves as inmates. Most of you were rich snotty little kids who finally got your butts whipped and want to cry about it now or not.
I'm not judging, I'm just say'in.
Anne there was abuse in the programs on a large scale back in the day but let me tell ya, it was nothing like the peer-pressure you would have received in prison.
Bullshit. I was never in juvie, or prison, but I have been in a handful of adult rehabs and more county jails than I can remember. NOTHING came close to that kiddie rehab I was in when I was 15. The term 'inmate' is entirely appropriate. ' Victim ' would work too.
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No Anne, they were in County Jail not prison
Really....and you would know this how?
and depending on the state and the population, we possibly could argue but if these 5 people your talking about were in a prison (not work release programs, boot camp or work camp) then they are full of shit and I would say that to there faces.
Good for you, internet tough guy.
Elan 6 would make any facility at Straight look like a Ronald McDonald House for crying out loud.
So now you're trying to start yet another pissing contest? Who's program was worse? You really are pathetic.
:clown:
Yes DannyBoi, we all realize you're a clown.
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A lot of us use that term because that's how we felt.....like we were inmates in a prison.
Well for some of us who were in prison and know damn well you never were, it is like a slap in the face. Because you don't know a darn thing about Juvenile Detention Centers, County/Town/City Jails or Prisons.
So please do not refer to yourselves as inmates. Most of you were rich snotty little kids who finally got your butts whipped and want to cry about it now or not.
I'm not judging, I'm just say'in.
Anne there was abuse in the programs on a large scale back in the day but let me tell ya, it was nothing like the peer-pressure you would have received in prison.
Bullshit. I was never in juvie, or prison, but I have been in a handful of adult rehabs and more county jails than I can remember. NOTHING came close to that kiddie rehab I was in when I was 15. The term 'inmate' is entirely appropriate. ' Victim ' would work too.
Shadys, your creditability is about nill around here so please go back to your fantasy world where lock ups, work programs and 3/4 houses are wonderful. No shit.
We are talking about Juvie, Prisons and large population county, city jails.
Get with the subject.
MY credibility? What's this I hear about you dragging a girl behind a truck? Why do you delete all your posts as soon as they are up?
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Here come the extremists.
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MY credibility? What's this I hear about you dragging a girl behind a truck?
I know, I keep asking him about it too and he never answers.
Why do you delete all your posts as soon as they are up?
I've noticed that too. He used to do it with PMs too. He'd send me one, then delete it before I could read it. Strange guy.
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No Anne, you had already started the pissing contest with your continuousness paragraphs of BS. I am ending it.
Thank You
Of course you're ending it now. You've been asked about things you don't want to talk about.
How would you know whether those 5 people I mentioned were in prison or county jail? More of you pulling shit out of your ass and calling it fact.
Now, wanna answer the question about the girl and the van? I genuinely am curious about it.
continuousness????
(http://http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090525053135/wikiality/images/4/4e/ConfusedDog.jpg)
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Back to the topic of programs abuse kids:
If for example you attended Ridge Creek Academy and you came onto fornits and said:
I was an inmate at that Gulag for 16 months and was abused.
What does that communicate to the reader?
What we know is that Ridge Creek is not a Gulag (it’s a boarding school), the kids are referred to as students and by the state of Georgia as Residents (not inmates). So the person making the statement is exaggerating to get peoples attention. So when they say they were abused we naturally would assume they were exaggerating also. We would read it as the kid was forced to follow some rules he/she didn’t like.
You cant exaggerate with inmate and Gulag and then expect people to believe you are not exaggerating when you use the word abuse.
We understand that many kids come on to fornits and say they were abused, but how do we differentiate between the real stories and those which are written for attention purposes only?
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A lot of us use that term because that's how we felt.....like we were inmates in a prison.
Well for some of us who were in prison and know damn well you never were, it is like a slap in the face. Because you don't know a darn thing about Juvenile Detention Centers, County/Town/City Jails or Prisons.
So please do not refer to yourselves as inmates. Most of you were rich snotty little kids who finally got your butts whipped and want to cry about it now or not.
I'm not judging, I'm just say'in.
Anne there was abuse in the programs on a large scale back in the day but let me tell ya, it was nothing like the peer-pressure you would have received in prison.
Just when I think Danny can't say anything more idiotic he proves me wrong. Danny, people who were familiar with both jail and Straight inc would choose jail every time. We had people in group who would commit serious felonies like assault with a deadly weapon just so they could get out of Straight and go to prison instead. I watched a guy take a steak knife to the back in group one day. He had smuggled the knife out of his host-home and stabbed another newcomer at random. Didn't even know the guy he stuck. He just kept saying he wanted to go back to jail. You have absolutely no idea Danny. :beat:
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Robert always exaggerates and uses loaded language. The record needs to be set straight on this one. HLA had residents. HLA reopened as Ridge Creek School and has residents and inmates from the state prison system in the same facility. Robert likes to blow things out of proportion. Only RCS has inmates, Robert. HLA never did. This is always what gets me about you extremists here.
Yeah we covered this earlier.
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A lot of us use that term because that's how we felt.....like we were inmates in a prison.
Well for some of us who were in prison and know damn well you never were, it is like a slap in the face. Because you don't know a darn thing about Juvenile Detention Centers, County/Town/City Jails or Prisons.
So please do not refer to yourselves as inmates. Most of you were rich snotty little kids who finally got your butts whipped and want to cry about it now or not.
I'm not judging, I'm just say'in.
Anne there was abuse in the programs on a large scale back in the day but let me tell ya, it was nothing like the peer-pressure you would have received in prison.
Bullshit. I was never in juvie, or prison, but I have been in a handful of adult rehabs and more county jails than I can remember. NOTHING came close to that kiddie rehab I was in when I was 15. The term 'inmate' is entirely appropriate. ' Victim ' would work too.
I agree with you 100% Shadyacres. I've spent time in both juvie & county jail - I definately
preferred those places over the program I was sent to (CEDU). Yes it is true that juvie &
county jail are more violent environments than Cedu was. However, I coped with this by
not talking shit, staying out of other people's business, staying alert at all times, & making
as many friends as possible - and I left these places relatively unscathed.
Nobody at county jail or juvie tried to brainwash me while depriving me of sleep for 30+ hours straight. Nobody at juvie/county demanded that I constantly talk about my feelings. I was never put "bans" from anyone or anything, or restricted from discussing whatever the hell I wanted to. Unlike Cedu, in county jail/juvie I could write letters to and/or call whoever the
fuck I wanted to. Unlike Cedu, in county jail/juvie I could receive visits from anyone & everyone who wanted to come see me.
In Jail, I wasn't forced to sit thru 15+ hours a week in raps, hearing other inmates talk about all the fucked up shit they did like sticking things up their asses, being molested by their parents, being raped in foster homes, turning tricks for drugs, fucking their siblings, trying to get head from their dogs, etcetera. Even better, in jail I didn't have to sit through raps hearing the STAFF talk about molesting 13 year old girls, setting a homeless man on fire, killing someone while drunk driving, or jerking off into milk cartons filled with raw chicken livers -all of which happened Cedu.
At least in jail - my thoughts were my own. I was expected to do my time - but how I felt about it and dealt with it was my own business, and no one elses. And also my life went on,
sure I was in jail - but that didn't mean I had to be completely isolated from the world, and everyone & everything that meant something to me. Cedu on the other hand - they took everything away from me, they completely alienated me from the real world - total isolation!
Furthermore, I went to juvie/county jail because I was arrested for and/or convicted of breaking the law. At least I was there for a reason, and I received due process before being confined. Most of the kids being placed in programs aren't ever arrested, charged, or convicted of anything. They're imprisoned without even a hearing, let alone trial - in other words kids are being confined without it ever being proven that they did anything wrong!
In this respect - programs are no better than concentration camps! In fact, while at Cedu
I met over a dozen kids who as far as I could tell, were sent there soley they weren't
getting along with their new step parent! This is NOT a valid reason for imprisoning someone!
"Inmate", "Prisoner" & "Victim" are all entirely appropriate terms for describing people
stuck in programs. Also for many people I knew at Cedu, adding the pre-fix "Innocent"
to any of the aforementioned terms would be an appropriate description as well.
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Back to the topic of programs abuse kids:
If for example you attended Ridge Creek Academy and you came onto fornits and said:
I was an inmate at that Gulag for 16 months and was abused.
What does that communicate to the reader?
That the kid felt like they were a prisoner.
What we know is that Ridge Creek is not a Gulag (it’s a boarding school),
You've been asked to stop using "we" when talking about Fornits as a group. Please stop it, seriously.
Ridge Creek is not merely a traditional boarding school. You know that and it may very well resemble a gulag. I know Straight did.
the kids are referred to as students and by the state of Georgia as Residents (not inmates).
So what? If a kid is talking about their experience and they felt like a prisoner or an inmate, then that's what they'll use to describe their experience.
So the person making the statement is exaggerating to get peoples attention.
You don't know that it's an exaggeration, especially when we're talking about how the child felt in the "school".
So when they say they were abused we naturally would assume they were exaggerating also. We would read it as the kid was forced to follow some rules he/she didn’t like.
You would read it that way. You, not we.
You cant exaggerate with inmate and Gulag and then expect people to believe you are not exaggerating when you use the word abuse.
Straight was very much like a gulag and we were definitely treated as inmates.
We understand that many kids come on to fornits and say they were abused, but how do we differentiate between the real stories and those which are written for attention purposes only?
What kind of attention do you think we're seeking? That's a pretty odd way of getting attention. My purpose for posting my experiences is to warn parents that the glossy brochures programs produce don't tell the whole story.
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Well for some of us who were in prison and know damn well you never were, it is like a slap in the face. Because you don't know a darn thing about Juvenile Detention Centers, County/Town/City Jails or Prisons.
So please do not refer to yourselves as inmates. Most of you were rich snotty little kids who finally got your butts whipped and want to cry about it now or not.
I'm not judging, I'm just say'in.
Anne there was abuse in the programs on a large scale back in the day but let me tell ya, it was nothing like the peer-pressure you would have received in prison.
Bullshit. I was never in juvie, or prison, but I have been in a handful of adult rehabs and more county jails than I can remember. NOTHING came close to that kiddie rehab I was in when I was 15. The term 'inmate' is entirely appropriate. ' Victim ' would work too.
Shadys, your creditability is about nill around here so please go back to your fantasy world where lock ups, work programs and 3/4 houses are wonderful. No shit.
We are talking about Juvie, Prisons and large population county, city jails.
Get with the subject.
MY credibility? What's this I hear about you dragging a girl behind a truck? Why do you delete all your posts as soon as they are up?
Hey, your done get off this thread, it is for real people. Your a parody of sorts. Go hang out with Anne at County and get back to us.
Oh the girl I dragged should still be on Rt. 66.
Nice talking to you too, Psycho. Do you own Fornits now? Who do you think you are trying to order me around? You know where you can put those orders, right?
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So we should read it as the child felt like he was abused. He felt like he was in a Gulag and Felt like he was an inmate. But in reality he/she was not.
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So we should read it as the child felt like he was abused. He felt like he was in a Gulag and Felt like he was an inmate. But in reality he/she was not.
No, but I'm not surprised that you would view it that way.
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SOS brings up many good points, one of which was that convicts have been sentenced to do time for violating clearly established laws. Speaking for myself, I had never DREAMED that my mother would put me into a place like that. Program advocates love to point out how the teens " did this to themselves ". How can you hold the kids responsible for putting themselves in that situation if they never knew that it was a possible consequence? Convicts generally know they are breaking the law and at least have a rough idea of the sentence they are likely to receive.
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SOS brings up many good points, one of which was that convicts have been sentenced to do time for violating clearly established laws. Speaking for myself, I had never DREAMED that my mother would put me into a place like that. Program advocates love to point out how the teens " did this to themselves ". How can you hold the kids responsible for putting themselves in that situation if they never knew that it was a possible consequence? Convicts generally know they are breaking the law and at least have a rough idea of the sentence they are likely to receive.
Prisoners also have due process and the legal recourse of appeal.
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Just wanted to say something about Academy at Swift River & HLA/Ridge Creek:
As I understand it - Rudy & Jill Bentz were founding staff members at both of
these programs. The Bentz's were by far among the MOST ABUSIVE staff members
ever to work at CEDU Running Springs. Additionally, both Rudy & Jill were highly
prone to groping & fondling Cedu's adolescent inmates of the opposite sex. They
made no effort to hide this fact either. I spent my first 6 months at cedu chopping
wood on daily crews supervised by Jill, with her hands all over my ass! I'll remind you
that I was only 14 at the time!
I don't care what Whooter, Suck It, Maxie-pad, or any other programmie says -
any program founded in part by Rudy & Jill Bentz (like ASR & HLA/Ridge Creek)
most definately abuses kids!
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To address the point that Whooter was trying to make, I think the reason we use words like 'gulag' is that we have no adequate words for what those places are. 'School', 'Treatment Center', 'Boot Camp' are all wrong. They are words for different, far less damaging institutions. The TTI model that rose up in the seventies and eighties, and is in even greater use today, is so contrary to the values this country was founded on that most people just assume that this kind of thing does not happen in this country, and anyone who says it does MUST be lying. We use words like gulag because we have no other adequate words to use.
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Deleted again?? Why even bother posting if you're just gonna delete it? You used to do the same thing with PMs.
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To address the point that Whooter was trying to make, I think the reason we use words like 'gulag' is that we have no adequate words for what those places are. 'School', 'Treatment Center', 'Boot Camp' are all wrong. They are words for different, far less damaging institutions. The TTI model that rose up in the seventies and eighties, and is in even greater use today, is so contrary to the values this country was founded on that most people just assume that this kind of thing does not happen in this country, and anyone who says it does MUST be lying. We use words like gulag because we have no other adequate words to use.
Very well put. :tup:
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A lot of us use that term because that's how we felt.....like we were inmates in a prison.
Well for some of us who were in prison and know damn well you never were, it is like a slap in the face. Because you don't know a darn thing about Juvenile Detention Centers, County/Town/City Jails or Prisons.
So please do not refer to yourselves as inmates. Most of you were rich snotty little kids who finally got your butts whipped and want to cry about it now or not.
I'm not judging, I'm just say'in.
Anne there was abuse in the programs on a large scale back in the day but let me tell ya, it was nothing like the peer-pressure you would have received in prison.
Bullshit. I was never in juvie, or prison, but I have been in a handful of adult rehabs and more county jails than I can remember. NOTHING came close to that kiddie rehab I was in when I was 15. The term 'inmate' is entirely appropriate. ' Victim ' would work too.
I agree with you 100% Shadyacres. I've spent time in both juvie & county jail - I definately
preferred those places over the program I was sent to (CEDU). Yes it is true that juvie &
county jail are more violent environments than Cedu was. However, I coped with this by
not talking shit, staying out of other people's business, staying alert at all times, & making
as many friends as possible - and I left these places relatively unscathed.
Nobody at county jail or juvie tried to brainwash me while depriving me of sleep for 30+ hours straight. Nobody at juvie/county demanded that I constantly talk about my feelings. I was never put "bans" from anyone or anything, or restricted from discussing whatever the hell I wanted to. Unlike Cedu, in county jail/juvie I could write letters to and/or call whoever the
fuck I wanted to. Unlike Cedu, in county jail/juvie I could receive visits from anyone & everyone who wanted to come see me.
In Jail, I wasn't forced to sit thru 15+ hours a week in raps, hearing other inmates talk about all the fucked up shit they did like sticking things up their asses, being molested in by their parents, being raped in foster homes, turning tricks for drugs, fucking their siblings, trying to get head from their dogs, etcetera. Even better, in jail I didn't have to sit through raps hearing the STAFF talk about molesting 13 year old girls, setting a homeless man on fire, killing someone while drunk driving, or jerking into milk cartons filled with raw chicken livers -all of which happened Cedu.
At least in jail - my thoughts were my own. I was expected to do my time - but how I felt about it and dealt with it was my own business, and no one elses. And also my life went on,
sure I was in jail - but that didn't mean I had to be completely isolated from the world, and everone & everything that meant something to me. Cedu on the other hand - took everything away from me, they completely alienated me from the real world - total isolation!
Furthermore, I went to juvie/county jail because I was arrested for and/or convicted of breaking the law. At least I was there for a reason, and I received due process before being confined. Most of the kids being placed in programs aren't ever arrested, charged, or convicted of anything. They're imprisoned without even a hearing, let alone trial - in other words kids are being confined without it ever being proven that they did anything wrong!
In this respect - programs are no better than concentration camps! In fact, while at Cedu
I met over a dozen kids who as far as I could tell, were sent there soley they weren't
getting alon with their new step parent! This is NOT a valid reason for imprisoning someone!
"Inmate", "Prisoner" & "Victim" are all entirely appropriate terms for describing people
stuck in programs. Also for many people I knew at Cedu, adding the pre-fix "Innocent"
to any of the aforementioned terms would be an appropriate description as well.
Oh, OK. here is Serbia we will believe it now. Yeah T/C's are worse the prisons and juvie. You really got your embellished spiel down. So long as it works for ya. I can tell ya no body else is really listening parents, kids ect.... your way over the top.
Guys please keep writing because you bolster my opinion/point even more. The audience will read what you have wrote and realize exactly what we have here a bunch immature ex-residents who are still angry.
You folks sound like your romanticizing being the program tuff guys, Yeah throw me in prison, I can do it, no problem, better then here. Attica!!!!!Attica!!!! We Want Attica!!!!
Just saying this Juvie and Prisons are better then programs, makes once again, the readers leave shaking there heads.
Danny, I've given no one here any reason not to believe me. I have no vested interest in keeping programs open, or shutting them down for that matter. I don't make any money from it either way. And by the way - you're a total fucking tool dude, seriously, all jokes aside. And talk about being immature - you just can't tolerate anyone expressing an opinion that conflicts with your own warped, programmed views. Not all of us are sheep like you Danny. Most of us prefer thinking for ourselves - and thats why we find your pathetic rants so amusing. I'll keep writing by the way, and I'll keep laughing at you Danny.
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To address the point that Whooter was trying to make, I think the reason we use words like 'gulag' is that we have no adequate words for what those places are. 'School', 'Treatment Center', 'Boot Camp' are all wrong. They are words for different, far less damaging institutions. The TTI model that rose up in the seventies and eighties, and is in even greater use today, is so contrary to the values this country was founded on that most people just assume that this kind of thing does not happen in this country, and anyone who says it does MUST be lying. We use words like gulag because we have no other adequate words to use.
Very well put. :tup:
Since you folks are from Florida, I'm sure you would have no problem with our great values as a country. So then why protest, Straight. ???????
I have no idea what the hell you're trying to say.
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Deleted again?? Why even bother posting if you're just gonna delete it? You used to do the same thing with PMs.
OK....?
Good, then you'll stop deleting your posts, right?
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Actually, I was thinking of;
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. "
Of course, there were no TTI's in those days, if there had been, I bet Jefferson would have included them in his 'long train of abuses'.
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I appreciate everyones' input on this thread. The comments here have confirmed what I suspected. There is still widespread abuse in the Troubled Teen Industry. Parents be very careful when considering a program. Your kid may come back alot worse off than before. They will probably be angry with you for sending them to a place that abuses them. Probably not a good idea at all. Consider other options.
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Deleted again?? Why even bother posting if you're just gonna delete it? You used to do the same thing with PMs.
OK....?
Good, then you'll stop deleting your posts, right?
DannyB II keeps deleting his posts to avoid getting caught with his foot in his mouth -
AGAIN! Personnally, I think Danny should stop deleting his posts too. It isn't
fair to the rest of us who enjoy laughing at Danny every chance we get.
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To address the point that Whooter was trying to make, I think the reason we use words like 'gulag' is that we have no adequate words for what those places are. 'School', 'Treatment Center', 'Boot Camp' are all wrong. They are words for different, far less damaging institutions. The TTI model that rose up in the seventies and eighties, and is in even greater use today, is so contrary to the values this country was founded on that most people just assume that this kind of thing does not happen in this country, and anyone who says it does MUST be lying. We use words like gulag because we have no other adequate words to use.
I agree that it works well within your group of friends and fellow survivors. But when the rest of the world is using School or program and student/Resident and you exaggerate/redefine it to a level of Gulag and inmate then the readers can expect that when you also use the word "abuse" this would also be an exaggeration or redefined.
How is the reader to know which wards are redefined and embellished and which are not?
IF I stated:
My teacher is a mass murderer and kills me with her homework and treats me like a common slave when she makes me clean the board. I am abused everyday.
Should we dial 911? or by reading that sentence we interpret that the words Murder, slave and abuse are all embellished to get attention and create drama?
Do you see the difference?
I am not saying you have to stop using the kidnapping, Gulag, inmate, abuse etc. words. But just dont expect the average person to take you seriously that is my main point. If someone has truly been abused then they need to drop the drama and take the situation seriously if you expect others to.
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Actually, I was thinking of;
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. "
Of course, there were no TTI's in those days, if there had been, I bet Jefferson would have included them in his 'long train of abuses'.
Yeah, and you told your mum you would be home clean and sober at 11 pm and did not come in until 2am lit up and smelling of booze.
We all lie....what's your point.
That months or years of emotional or psychological abuse is a wholly inappropriate and ineffective remedy for a kid who comes home late, drunk, a few times. Or was found with weed in his pocket, or whatever.
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To address the point that Whooter was trying to make, I think the reason we use words like 'gulag' is that we have no adequate words for what those places are. 'School', 'Treatment Center', 'Boot Camp' are all wrong. They are words for different, far less damaging institutions. The TTI model that rose up in the seventies and eighties, and is in even greater use today, is so contrary to the values this country was founded on that most people just assume that this kind of thing does not happen in this country, and anyone who says it does MUST be lying. We use words like gulag because we have no other adequate words to use.
I agree that it works well within your group of friends and fellow survivors. But when the rest of the world is using School or program and student/Resident and you exaggerate/redefine it to a level of Gulag and inmate then the readers can expect that when you also use the word "abuse" this would also be an exaggeration or redefined.
How is the reader to know which wards are redefined and embellished and which are not?
IF I stated:
My teacher is a mass murderer and kills me with her homework and treats me like a common slave when she makes me clean the board. I am abused everyday.
Should we dial 911? or by reading that sentence we interpret that the words Murder, slave and abuse are all embellished to get attention and create drama?
Do you see the difference?
I am not saying you have to stop using the kidnapping, Gulag, inmate, abuse etc. words. But just dont expect the average person to take you seriously that is my main point. If someone has truly been abused then they need to drop the drama and take the situation seriously if you expect others to.
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Whooter, it is you and your ilk who are not taking it seriously. It is you and your ilk who have stretched and twisted the meanings of words like 'school' and 'student' to more closely resemble 'internment camp' and 'prisoner'.
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Whooter..Where in the world has the pope declared and the Catholics declared that they have accepted homosexuality? That is incorrect info..sorry Whooter try again!
The pope was born in like 1920. If they told him what was going on he would have a heart attack.
More and more accepted by this world eh? Is that why when I tried to turn to survivors for support - people that were friends of mine for years about the harsh break-up from myself and my partner I was treated just so nicely here? Is that why I had a str8 friend think I was coming onto her when I called her babe b/c she felt sick? Wow Wake up Whooter....WOW is that why kids are committing suicide because us homosexuals are so well and widely accepted. Please quit talking about what you do not know.
I am an adult bi-sexual and still not accepted and loved by many b/c I am gay. I speak from experience , not speculation.
-DP
I didnt say that homosexuals are completely accepted in society. I am saying (from my perspective) that their acceptance has come a long way since the 1960's and in another generation they will be almost completely integrated and accepted. Back in the 1960's the word Gay was a slur. They were not accepted at all and were referred to as fruit cakes or as a birth defect of some type. They would marry woman and have kids because that was what was accepted of men in those days. They started having sex with each other in San Fransisco which caused the Aids Virus which proved that homosexuality was unnatural and needed to be treated like a disease.
People are still curious about homosexuals today and what makes them tick. But they are much more open now and accepted in the business world and society in general. Straight kids and homosexuals commit suicide, maybe not at the same rate. Parents are more accepting of gay children than 50 years ago but they would still prefer a straight child over a gay one I would guess and that is why the kids are not open to telling their parents that they are gay and feel much more humiliated if they are outed on the internet like what happened recently. If this were a straight kid he may still feel humiliated knowing his family may be seeing it but it would pale in comparison to a child who was having a homosexual relationship.
I didnt see you being treated badly because of your sexual orientation here on fornits. People are treated badly here in general. I am not gay but I am treated pretty bad at times.
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This is one of the smartest things ever said on Fornits. You people should learn from this man.
Oy. Here's Whooter in full homophobic, bigoted ignorance. Parents, these are the people running te "programs" you're considering. "Gays in San Francisco having sex caused the AIDS virus and made homosexuality unnatural and a disease." You can't make up ignorance of this magnitude. That guy is one sick puppy. This explains all of his past anti-gay rants and slurs.
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Whooter, it is you and your ilk who are not taking it seriously. It is you and your ilk who have stretched and twisted the meanings of words like 'school' and 'student' to more closely resemble 'internment camp' and 'prisoner'.
What do you base that on? What does the state, parents, neighbors, professionals etc. call the kids who are in these boarding schools? inmates?
What does the state, parents professionals, neighbors, townspeople call these programs? Gulags?
If you look at the state reports on these places they dont use the words inmates or gulags.
These are not just my point of view, Shadyacres. Look around on line and see what people call these places outside of the survivor group. I think you have been so involved with fornits and other survivors that you think these programs call each other Gulags. They really dont.
If you walked into a police station and said that you were kidnapped and held prisoner inside a local Gulag what type of reaction to you think you would get? Who else talks like this beside fornits regulars?
All I am saying is that the words are used to create drama but are not intended to be factual. When you also use the word abuse you will be take as seriously as the words you use with it like kidnapping, Gulag and inmate. They are all used to get attention.
The question is when do we know when a child is actually abused? I am sure there have been posters who have been abused for real but how can we tell if they use the other drama words along with it? Do you see what I mean?
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Whooter..Where in the world has the pope declared and the Catholics declared that they have accepted homosexuality? That is incorrect info..sorry Whooter try again!
The pope was born in like 1920. If they told him what was going on he would have a heart attack.
More and more accepted by this world eh? Is that why when I tried to turn to survivors for support - people that were friends of mine for years about the harsh break-up from myself and my partner I was treated just so nicely here? Is that why I had a str8 friend think I was coming onto her when I called her babe b/c she felt sick? Wow Wake up Whooter....WOW is that why kids are committing suicide because us homosexuals are so well and widely accepted. Please quit talking about what you do not know.
I am an adult bi-sexual and still not accepted and loved by many b/c I am gay. I speak from experience , not speculation.
-DP
I didnt say that homosexuals are completely accepted in society. I am saying (from my perspective) that their acceptance has come a long way since the 1960's and in another generation they will be almost completely integrated and accepted. Back in the 1960's the word Gay was a slur. They were not accepted at all and were referred to as fruit cakes or as a birth defect of some type. They would marry woman and have kids because that was what was accepted of men in those days. They started having sex with each other in San Fransisco which caused the Aids Virus which proved that homosexuality was unnatural and needed to be treated like a disease.
People are still curious about homosexuals today and what makes them tick. But they are much more open now and accepted in the business world and society in general. Straight kids and homosexuals commit suicide, maybe not at the same rate. Parents are more accepting of gay children than 50 years ago but they would still prefer a straight child over a gay one I would guess and that is why the kids are not open to telling their parents that they are gay and feel much more humiliated if they are outed on the internet like what happened recently. If this were a straight kid he may still feel humiliated knowing his family may be seeing it but it would pale in comparison to a child who was having a homosexual relationship.
I didnt see you being treated badly because of your sexual orientation here on fornits. People are treated badly here in general. I am not gay but I am treated pretty bad at times.
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This is one of the smartest things ever said on Fornits. You people should learn from this man.
Oy. Here's Whooter in full homophobic, bigoted ignorance. Parents, these are the people running te "programs" you're considering. "Gays in San Francisco having sex caused the AIDS virus and made homosexuality unnatural and a disease." You can't make up ignorance of this magnitude. That guy is one sick puppy. This explains all of his past anti-gay rants and slurs.
Oh No another DJ who cannot read! This was the perception in 1960. It is probably before your time but many people thought that the gays were responsible for the aids virus and blamed them. Homosexuality was viewed as unnatural at that time...... Today gays are more readily accepted in out society.
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One of the ways they kept us from reporting the abuse or even recognizing what was being done to us as abuse, was by leading us to believe that the program had the full power of the law on its side. We were constantly reminded of this by staff. The program owned us. "You're here for the duration" was heard constantly.
Sometimes the police would be brought in by exec-staff to arrest someone in group for a "crime" (usually hurting someone while trying to escape) they had committed while at Straight. These displays always served to strongly reinforce the idea that the program had the local police in their pocket. After all, they come in a room full of abused brainwashed zombie kids and instead of rescuing us, they locked the cuffs on some kid while the staff lectured us on the consequences of resistance. Unbelievable maybe, but all too true.
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Whooter, it is you and your ilk who are not taking it seriously. It is you and your ilk who have stretched and twisted the meanings of words like 'school' and 'student' to more closely resemble 'internment camp' and 'prisoner'.
What do you base that on? What does the state, parents, neighbors, professionals etc. call the kids who are in these boarding schools? inmates?
What does the state, parents professionals, neighbors, townspeople call these programs? Gulags?
If you look at the state reports on these places they dont use the words inmates or gulags.
These are not just my point of view, Shadyacres. Look around on line and see what people call these places outside of the survivor group. I think you have been so involved with fornits and other survivors that you think these programs call each other Gulags. They really dont.
If you walked into a police station and said that you were kidnapped and held prisoner inside a local Gulag what type of reaction to you think you would get? Who else talks like this beside fornits regulars?
All I am saying is that the words are used to create drama but are not intended to be factual. When you also use the word abuse you will be take as seriously as the words you use with it like kidnapping, Gulag and inmate. They are all used to get attention.
The question is when do we know when a child is actually abused? I am sure there have been posters who have been abused for real but how can we tell if they use the other drama words along with it? Do you see what I mean?
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Most people, when they hear the word 'school', don't think of having to lay face down on the ground for 3 days while goons sit and watch you. The word 'student' does not normally conjure up images of captive teens under the complete physical and emotional control of whatever group of businessmen owns the "school", kept in line by minimum wage goons.
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DannyBII wrote"[/b] How long ago did this happen, where did this happen and was this your experience?
My problem I have is posters here meld experiences from all over the place, some individuals have even forgotten there own experiences because there was not enough "umph" in there story, so they drop theirs and started reciting others. (Jeesh, how sick is that).
I wish there was a rule here, where everyone had to talk in the "I", only about themselves. Max's does it, with much effort either, I do it most of the time and Whooter does it most of the time.
Yes, that position works well for your side of the argument;" If I didn't see it, it must not have happened. " But the root philosophy of these places is so similar throughout this industry that I tend to believe the countless reports of abuse that come out of these places on a regular basis. No, I never had to lie on the floor for three days, but I believe the accounts of those who said they did. And my program did not have minimum wage goons either, we had unpaid goons, other "residents".
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Most people, when they hear the word 'school', don't think of having to lay face down on the ground for 3 days while goons sit and watch you. The word 'student' does not normally conjure up images of captive teens under the complete physical and emotional control of whatever group of businessmen owns the "school", kept in line by minimum wage goons.
So instead of explaining the type of place you went to you would just say: "I was kidnapped and held in a gulag for 2 years where I was an inmate and abused". If you said this to anyone here in Massachusetts you would be asked to seek therapy and no one would believe you. Our state does not refer to any of these schools as gulags or the kids as inmates.
If you said: "My parents sent me to this treatment Center Tranquility Bay where it turned out I was abused for several months and denied food and basic nourishment" People would sit up and listen because it sounds serious. Seeding you response with embellishments looses credibility and people will think you are just seeking attention.
You can make up your own words if you like but all I am saying is that you will not be taken seriously. This is communication along the lines of a high school mentality. Again, Shadyacres, no disrespect but I think you find this language normal because you are use to fornits. Outside of this forum people dont speak that way and you would not be taken seriously, believe me.
I am here everyday and understand the language but even at that I have a hard time believing someone when they say they were abused inside a Gulag while they were inmates...... Its all drama for attention reasons.
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Most people, when they hear the word 'school', don't think of having to lay face down on the ground for 3 days while goons sit and watch you. The word 'student' does not normally conjure up images of captive teens under the complete physical and emotional control of whatever group of businessmen owns the "school", kept in line by minimum wage goons.
So instead of explaining the type of place you went to you would just say: "I was kidnapped and held in a gulag for 2 years where I was an inmate and abused". If you said this to anyone here in Massachusetts you would be asked to seek therapy and no one would believe you. Our state does not refer to any of these schools as gulags or the kids as inmates.
If you said: "My parents sent me to this treatment Center Tranquility Bay where it turned out I was abused for several months and denied food and basic nourishment" People would sit up and listen because it sounds serious. Seeding you response with embellishments looses credibility and people will think you are just seeking attention.
You can make up your own words if you like but all I am saying is that you will not be taken seriously. This is communication along the lines of a high school mentality. Again, Shadyacres, no disrespect but I think you find this language normal because you are use to fornits.
I just discovered Fornits a few months ago. You are the one who recently stated that you have been here for years, and your reputation on this forum will confirm that you have been making this specious argument for quite awhile now.
I am here everyday and understand the language but even at that I have a hard time believing someone when they say they were abused inside a Gulag while they were inmates...... Its all drama for attention reasons.
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At least that is what you hope you can convince people of.
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Most people, when they hear the word 'school', don't think of having to lay face down on the ground for 3 days while goons sit and watch you. The word 'student' does not normally conjure up images of captive teens under the complete physical and emotional control of whatever group of businessmen owns the "school", kept in line by minimum wage goons.
So instead of explaining the type of place you went to you would just say: "I was kidnapped and held in a gulag for 2 years where I was an inmate and abused". If you said this to anyone here in Massachusetts you would be asked to seek therapy and no one would believe you. Our state does not refer to any of these schools as gulags or the kids as inmates.
If you said: "My parents sent me to this treatment Center Tranquility Bay where it turned out I was abused for several months and denied food and basic nourishment" People would sit up and listen because it sounds serious. Seeding you response with embellishments looses credibility and people will think you are just seeking attention.
You can make up your own words if you like but all I am saying is that you will not be taken seriously. This is communication along the lines of a high school mentality. Again, Shadyacres, no disrespect but I think you find this language normal because you are use to fornits.
I just discovered Fornits a few months ago. You are the one who recently stated that you have been here for years, and your reputation on this forum will confirm that you have been making this specious argument for quite awhile now.
I am here everyday and understand the language but even at that I have a hard time believing someone when they say they were abused inside a Gulag while they were inmates...... Its all drama for attention reasons.
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At least that is what you hope you can convince people of.
I really dont care to convince anyone, Shadyacres. If you listen to many survivors here on fornits you will hear that one of their beefs is that they are not taken seriously. People view them as druggie liars. All I am saying is one of the reasons people may not take you seriously is because your communication is off from the norm. You have developed your own language and redefined some basic words which erodes the credibility of those that use them.
People on fornits have been describing these places as Gulags and kids as inmates and then intermix it with kidnapping and abuse for many years. I just continue to point out that these words make many people seem foolish or immature thats all.
It amazes me that people here just dont see it that way and continue to be perplexed as to why they are not take seriously when they speak to others.
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Yes, that position works well for your side of the argument;" If I didn't see it, it must not have happened. " But the root philosophy of these places is so similar throughout this industry that I tend to believe the countless reports of abuse that come out of these places on a regular basis. No, I never had to lie on the floor for three days, but I believe the accounts of those who said they did. And my program did not have minimum wage goons either, we had unpaid goons, other "residents".
If I didn't see it, it must not have happened.
Now this was not my point at all.
My point is, we have people speaking of abuses that happened, that have no real experience of. Some of you speak matter of factually that the reader is under the impression the poster experienced the abuse. You grab so many different experiences and meld them into one big story. Yet you don't let the readers know this. You can't plagurize several different stories as your own without letting folks know this.
Well, I guess you can but it is not right and doesn't lend itself to integrity.
:blabla:
DannyB II, if your own spite-filled, nonsensical ramblings have shown us anything - it is that YOU HAVE NO INTEGRITY WHAT-SO-EVER! I've never plagurized anyone - I don't need to either. I have plenty of horrible and traumatic memories from CEDU that are the basis for
my views concerning programs. The fact that my own personal stories of being abused mirror those of survivors from other "programs" such as Straight, Elan, HLA/Ridge Creek, ASR, etcetera... indicate that such abuse is not isolated to a specific program (or individuals working there), but rather this is a systemic problem that affects the entire "troubled teen program" industry.
Danny, if you would kindly remove your head from the inside of your own asshole from time
to time, you'd finally get some fresh air and perhaps a new perspective on things. Am I asking for too much here? Seriously Danny, how do you breathe with your head jammed
so far up your ass anyways?
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Danny it seems like all you can do is echo Whoots comments. Except your echo is not very articulate at all. At least Whoot is capable of fully articulating his BS into understandable BS. Your BS is barely understandable at all. Serious question: Are you farming out your account here again or are you back on the dope? You seem to be unable to put together any coherent argument these days. Also, please discuss the abuse you committed as a staff member at Elan including the Car/Van dragging incident. Thanks. O0
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So this is what I am left with Serbia and Shady, regurgitating what everyone else has had to say concerning me.
Shady you understand exactly what I am saying you just don't like it.
Whooter this is what we were left with, this wing nut.
Shady I have no problem discussing my experience as a Staff Member and a Ass. Director with you. What do you want to know.
I think my exact question was "so what's this I hear about you dragging a girl behind a truck?"
As far as the incident of dragging a girl around, nope not this guy, sorry.
Oh, I believe you! Even if nobody else on this forum believes you, I do. I have seen your stellar character come out in your posts.
Is this unintelligible, Shady.
It wasn't me who pointed out your obvious grammatical shortcomings, though I was tempted.
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Danny I just set up a thread in the offa section to discuss your abusive behavior as a staff member at Elan. Please respond there instead of using this thread for your own purposes. Thanks. :beat:
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You know the whole van dragging thing happened recently in Texas and not with Danny in Elan right? I'm wildly guessing he's piss taking you clowns and getting you to derail threads for him.
Good job dudes, good job.
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Outside of fornits the kids inside of HLA are referred to as “students” by most of the population and the state of Georgia refers to them as “Residents”. So the use of the term “Inmate” sets the tone and we need to view your post as misleading or greatly exaggerated. So after we filter out the exaggerations we see that the students were allowed to speak with their parents and say whatever they wish to. Some students, like yourself, who requested to call your parents during dinner time and you were denied and therefore you felt abused and isolated when in fact you were just being impatient and rude.
Counselors never hang up on the parents, we know this. At the very least they would apologize for their childs' rude behavior and offer to call them back after they settled you down a bit
The crazy thing is that I was actually there, and you weren't. So that being the case my opinion is more valid than yours, as mine is based on facts, yours is based on your pro child abuse rhetoric. Since you deny having ever sent your son to HLA, you really have no frame of reference at all to even speculate on procedures or what day to day life was like there. Perhaps once you start being honest about things we can have a more open discussion. Till then the fact remains that all forms of communication in and out of HLA were restricted and censored. An inmate, provided he was not on restriction, was granted one prescheduled 10 minute phone call per week, that could be terminated at any time. There is no evidence to suggest the situation has changed at RC.
You are welcome to ask both DJ and Jill about it for further verification.
As far as the inmate comment goes, its what we called ourselves during our incarceration. The ironic thing about it was that we all knew that people in prison actually had more rights than we did. It probably started with, as Max mentioned, the high number of court ordered delinquents sent to HLA. I suppose they were just used to the term, and the rest of us found how it applied to us as well.
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Programs do allow open communication between parents and child. There is typically at least one parent or family member that the child can speak to on a weekly basis.
There is a misconception circulating here on fornits that programs don't allow this communication. but it is not true.
That's not open communication. Open communication says that a child has the right to say, "I need to call my parents", and is then given access to a phone.
This does happen, Robert. In many programs of today 2010.
At HLA, a program that was shut down due to a legitmate lawsuit and factual allegations of abuse, communication was highly restricted.
Which reopened under a new name, Ridge Creek School. They settled the case with Georgia.
A inmate had to earn the ability to call home.
Robert, likes to be disrespectful towards other students/residents and refer to them like they are in prison. I believe Robert must have gotten himself into a lot of trouble as a youngster so he is familiar with the juvenile term "inmate".
Programs in 2010 do not and have never referred to children as inmates.
I went to a program 30 years that would make Roberts program look like a day care center gone wild for a day and I never felt like a inmate.
Letters must be first be sent and recieved before any phone calls were allowed. No letters would be given or sent out with out first being approved. If a inmate wrote, "This place sucks, I hate it here." Sorry kiddo, that letter isn't going anywhere but the trash can. They refer to that one as 'lying'. If a child wrote, "The staff here is horrible. I'm being abused, here's what happened:.....". Well at HLA that was refered to as 'manipulating' and would never be mailed out. If a child who was abused by a parent says something like, "I hate you for what you did to me." Well that's called being abusive and also will be thrown in the trash. If a parent writes to a child and says, "I'm not sure I like that place. I'm thinking about taking you out of there. Tell me what's going on." You can rest assured the child will never see that letter.
Robert, likes to talk about his time in HLA and shares this with others hoping to help. I'm sure it does.
We need to stay in touch with today 2010 and what is happening at the new program called RCS.
I was in a program as I stated, letters were going in and going out undisturbed as were phone calls.
Phone calls are no different. A "counselor" sits in on all ten minute phone calls (15 depending on how long you've been there) and the second you say something they on't like, the call is disconnected.
Robert, loves to get carried away, ya know put that, "got ya" comment out there. I never had a staff hang up the phone while my parents were on the other end. Sounds kind of crazy doesn't it, well it is.
Whenever a child is placed on restrictions he is denied phone calls with his parents until he comes off. Counselors communicate for the child during this time.
We were allowed are schedule calls regardless, parents needed to know why you were being punished and it was up to you also to tell them. staff also understood the need to talk with your parents on a regular bases. This was happening 30 years ago.
None of this falls under open communication, and all of it is abusive.
Well once again this is your opinion, Robert and you are entitled to it but please do not force it on the rest of us. That would be considered rude.
1. It appears you know even less than I thought about the situation at HLA. They didnt settle the case with Georgia, they settled it with us. They paid us, because they knew there would be no way to control the damage that would come out in open court.
2. You may want to look into the differences between facts and opinions. My comments and opinion are again based on facts. Your opnion states that my comments are untrue, yet you like Whooter have no real basis for this claim. Until you provide some sort of evidence to suggest otherwise, I'm the best source of knowledge you've got. Given that you have no connection or expereince related to HLA or RC you really have nothing to add when it's discussed. Again please discuss it with DJ and Jill, they'll tell you the same things I am.
So since that is the case perhaps it is you who should learn to keep your opinions which have no basis to yourself. They provide no real contribution and are essentially utter nonsense anyway.
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As far as the inmate comment goes, its what we called ourselves during our incarceration. The ironic thing about it was that we all knew that people in prison actually had more rights than we did. It probably started with, as Max mentioned, the high number of court ordered delinquents sent to HLA. I suppose they were just used to the term, and the rest of us found how it applied to us as well.
So when people hear you call yourself inmates they know that you are exaggerating so you must also be exaggerating when speaking of your other experiences also. The school and parents refer to you as students, the state refers to you as residents, but you chose to redefine yourself to gain attention and embellish your position there. Your credibility erodes when it is viewed that you are seeking attention.
Just want to point that out.
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If you go home everyday you are a student or an outpatient. If not you are a resident or an inmate.
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If you go home everyday you are a student or an outpatient. If not you are a resident or an inmate.
Thank you, none-ya. Resident to most and if you want drama and attention you tell people you were an inmate who was kidnapped and placed into a Gulag against your will , isolated and abused for several years.
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At my program sometimes the bad kids would get locked into little rooms that were called "isolation cells" but that doesn't make them "inmates" though. They were never locked in there for more than a few weeks at a time, so it's not like it was jail or anything. They did have a restricted diet while they were in there but since the room was so small that they couldn't really move around so much or expend energy the lower calorie daily diet of a banana and two peanut butter sandwiches and water was actually for their own good because they couldn't exercise in the cells. Again, these were students, not "inmates" people.
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So instead of explaining the type of place you went to you would just say: "I was kidnapped and held in a gulag for 2 years where I was an inmate and abused". If you said this to anyone here in Massachusetts you would be asked to seek therapy and no one would believe you. Our state does not refer to any of these schools as gulags or the kids as inmates.
We haven't said it like that. We've said it accompanying your quote below as a descriptor. We've said that it was like a modern day gulag or that we were imprisoned, accompanied by your quote below. It doesn't matter because people like you continue to minimize our experiences and accuse us of lying.....for attention. That one I really don't get. What the hell kind of attention would that bring?
If you said: "My parents sent me to this treatment Center Tranquility Bay where it turned out I was abused for several months and denied food and basic nourishment" People would sit up and listen because it sounds serious. Seeding you response with embellishments looses credibility and people will think you are just seeking attention.
Bullshit. We have said pretty much exactly that and we're still told that we're either lying, exaggerating, disgruntled kids who didn't finish the program etc.
You can make up your own words if you like but all I am saying is that you will not be taken seriously. This is communication along the lines of a high school mentality. Again, Shadyacres, no disrespect but I think you find this language normal because you are use to fornits. Outside of this forum people dont speak that way and you would not be taken seriously, believe me.
You consistently minimize what we say even though you have no idea what we went thru. You think that because you're the parent of a kid(s) who went thru a program that you know all about it and you couldn't be more wrong. You constantly refer to these places as simply "schools" with no further descriptor, conjuring up Rockwell images of kids learning and having free time to enjoy, meet new friends etc., just like the pretty brochures that these places show the parents when the truth is, they're nothing like how they're marketed. I've got to admit.....you're good at marketing and spin, but what you talk about has nothing to do with the reality of what these kids are going thru.
I am here everyday and understand the language but even at that I have a hard time believing someone when they say they were abused inside a Gulag while they were inmates...... Its all drama for attention reasons.
No, it's really not. Being kept in a literal warehouse for 12 - 18 hours a day with temps sometimes reaching into the 100s, guards standing at the doors, being denied food & water, zero access to family, phones or even being able to speak at all, being guarded and watched while you take a shit - only to be sent at night to a strangers house where the windows are nailed shut (fire codes?), doors locked from the outside (fire codes?), being watched in the shower and on the shitter is imprisoning someone.
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Come on Anne. Programs aren't like that anymore. You know that. They don't use any guards at the doors they just use cameras and the older and bigger kids keep the other ones in line. Nobody is denied food, sleep or water like you said unless they are doing a workshop and that usually only means being kept awake for less than 48 hours and they do give you water and some snacks but not too much because you get into the session more if your a little disoriented but it's done in a controlled environment with trained staff that have gone through those workshops as residents before they became counselors at the program. I think everyone knows this already.
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Actually, I was thinking of;
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. "
Of course, there were no TTI's in those days, if there had been, I bet Jefferson would have included them in his 'long train of abuses'.
Yeah, and you told your mum you would be home clean and sober at 11 pm and did not come in until 2am lit up and smelling of booze.
We all lie....what's your point.
That months or years of emotional or psychological abuse is a wholly inappropriate and ineffective remedy for a kid who comes home late, drunk, a few times. Or was found with weed in his pocket, or whatever.
That was not my point and ya know it.
It doesn't really matter if it wasn't your point. It's what happens to a lot of kids. The parents freak out when the kid starts behaving like a fairly normal teenager, of which rebellion is a normal part of the cutting the apron strings, and the kid gets shipped off for re-education.
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Sheesh Anne it's not "re-education". Most of these kids wern't going to school in the first place so it's just plain "education". Sometimes you have to use some common sense.
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No, it's really not. Being kept in a literal warehouse for 12 - 18 hours a day with temps sometimes reaching into the 100s, guards standing at the doors, being denied food & water, zero access to family, phones or even being able to speak at all, being guarded and watched while you take a shit - only to be sent at night to a strangers house where the windows are nailed shut (fire codes?), doors locked from the outside (fire codes?), being watched in the shower and on the shitter is imprisoning someone.
Again Anne, you prove my point. You speak like this is happening today. Why do people here have to mislead the readers all the time? why not just be honest? If you truly believe that these places are abusive why do you have to embellish the stories with "Gulag", "Kidnapping", "prisons", "abuse" and "inmates".... guards at the doors, windows nailed shut etc.
The reason people dont believe you and you lose credibility is because of stories like this Anne. Its misleading and false.
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I agree with everything Whooter says here. When your put into the isolation cell for a few weeks that doesn't make you an "inmate" and you aren't in a "gulag" just because your forced to do hard manual labor. You weren't "kidnapped" either, a escort guy who your parents paid for sneeks into your room at 3 in the morning and handcuffs you for transport, hardly "kidnapping" and our windows were nailed shut to prevent kids from getting out at night for the exact reason that there were no guards, Anne. You people twist everything here.
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If you go home everyday you are a student or an outpatient. If not you are a resident or an inmate.
Normally this would be true, but Straight inc used "host-homes" to house us at night. These were homes of parents who had kids in the program. Each house was turned into a prison of sorts with alarms everywhere and everything basically nailed down. Many bad bad things happened at the host homes. Do any programs currently use this method? I am curious.
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No, it's really not. Being kept in a literal warehouse for 12 - 18 hours a day with temps sometimes reaching into the 100s, guards standing at the doors, being denied food & water, zero access to family, phones or even being able to speak at all, being guarded and watched while you take a shit - only to be sent at night to a strangers house where the windows are nailed shut (fire codes?), doors locked from the outside (fire codes?), being watched in the shower and on the shitter is imprisoning someone.
Again Anne, you prove my point. You speak like this is happening today. Why do people here have to mislead the readers all the time? why not just be honest? If you truly believe that these places are abusive why do you have to embellish the stories with "Gulag", "Kidnapping", "prisons", "abuse" and "inmates".... guards at the doors, windows nailed shut etc.
First, I didn't use the words gulag or kidnapping to describe what happened to me. I did say that I was imprisoned for the reasons stated above, which you choose to disregard/disbelieve.
Second, I'm not embellishing by saying that there were guards at the door and the windows were nailed shut. It's absolutely true. My father is just as guilty of it as the rest of the parents.
And third, as far as it happening today, yes I believe it is because I've been told so by kids who've recently come from programs and since I know it's a fact that it did happen to me, and given the multitude of similarities of the methods used by most of these programs (some form of LGAT or another) therefore it's quite reasonable for me to believe them when they say it's happening to them. It varies a little....some are sent to places that are so far out in the desert that there are no guards needed as the kids know they wouldn't survive if they tried to run. Some places are totally residential so parents nailing the windows shut isn't necessary to those programs, but the result is the same.....isolate the kids from anything to do with the outside world.
The reason people dont believe you and you lose credibility is because of stories like this Anne. Its misleading and false.
Stop speaking for other people. You don't believe me. You.
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Me and Danny either, Anne. Don't forget that.
I agree with everything Whooter says here. When your put into the isolation cell for a few weeks that doesn't make you an "inmate" and you aren't in a "gulag" just because your forced to do hard manual labor. You weren't "kidnapped" either, a escort guy who your parents paid for sneeks into your room at 3 in the morning and handcuffs you for transport, hardly "kidnapping" and our windows were nailed shut to prevent kids from getting out at night for the exact reason that there were no guards, Anne. You people twist everything here.
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Me and Danny either, Anne. Don't forget that.
You two don't matter.
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But Whooter does I guess. You must have a crush on that guy or some Daddy issues. You can't dismiss my experiences just because I'm not a prent, Anne. I tell the truth here and you don't like it, oh well.
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Me and Danny either, Anne. Don't forget that.
You two don't matter.
:twofinger:
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Slim Shady lost the debate and now all he do is give "The Finger" great, Slim Shady. This is how all you people here act when you're proven wrong by me Danny and Whooter. Just attack the messenger. You haven't proven any abuse Slim and Annie. Programs are different today and you know it. They don't use dog cages (lol), they use isolation cells. They don't have marathons, they have seminars and workshops. The names have changed, people so get used to it. The programs have stuck to their core principals of forcing kids to change for their own good, but they have changed the names of what they do and it's not abuse anymore.
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But Whooter does I guess. You must have a crush on that guy or some Daddy issues. You can't dismiss my experiences just because I'm not a prent, Anne. I tell the truth here and you don't like it, oh well.
No, he just at least attempt to make his point with some degree of intelligence. Danny is damn near illiterate and a member of the HeMan Woman Haters Club and you're just an obvious troll.
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I wanna' hear the real Danny B endorse the new suck-it.This is gettin' sureal.
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He calls me "Max" none-yas. I have his full support and Whooter's too.
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He calls me "Max" none-yas.
Only in the bedroom.
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And you would know Anne becuase we made a Anna Banana sandwich last night. Whooter was peeking from the closet lol.
Let's get back on topic and stop the personal attacks, Anne. The topic is "Many programs abuse kids" and the answer is "no they don't".
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You're a lap dog for the fake Danny B.
And you're full of shit whoever you are.
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And you would know Anne becuase we made a Anna Banana sandwich last night. Whooter was peeking from the closet lol.
Let's get back on topic and stop the personal attacks, Anne. The topic is "Many programs abuse kids" and the answer is "no they don't".
(http://http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn159/Captain802_Second/obvious_troll.jpg)
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I'm nobody's lap dog. Only Robbie uses that term so you must be Robbie trolling I guess. Anyway, what do you think isn't honest about what I said about programs. Give me some examples and we can discuss them like men and stop being verbally abusive to me. You always call me and Whooter trolls when you lose an argument. It just proves we were right all along.
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What happened Whooter? You deleted your post so quickly, but I had already begun to respond to it so here it is in all it's glory.
Second, I'm not embellishing by saying that there were guards at the door and the windows were nailed shut. It's absolutely true. My father is just as guilty of it as the rest of the parents.
I know for a fact that you are lying again, Anne. I walked over to several windows in ASR and I just opened them. It was very easy. The windows in my daughters dorm room were not looked either. There was no evidence that they were ever nailed shut. As I walked around the campus there were no guards to keep the kids on the property. There is a general store about a mile away.
Once again, you're purposely twisting my words. I was speaking of my experience at Straight and why I believed the kids who told me that the same types of things are still going on at different programs now. Not once did I say that ASR nailed windows shut or that there were guards on the property....but you knew that.
You keep blaming your father for stuff, you are grown up now, Anne, straight is closed the world is changing.
I put the blame for what happened to me in Straight right where it lies....with Straight itself and my father. Even he has begun to understand the damage he and it did to me and feels pretty damn badly about it now.
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What happened Whooter? You deleted your post so quickly, but I had already begun to respond to it so here it is in all it's glory.
Second, I'm not embellishing by saying that there were guards at the door and the windows were nailed shut. It's absolutely true. My father is just as guilty of it as the rest of the parents.
I know for a fact that you are lying again, Anne. I walked over to several windows in ASR and I just opened them. It was very easy. The windows in my daughters dorm room were not looked either. There was no evidence that they were ever nailed shut. As I walked around the campus there were no guards to keep the kids on the property. There is a general store about a mile away.
Once again, you're purposely twisting my words. I was speaking of my experience at Straight and why I believed the kids who told me that the same types of things are still going on at different programs now. Not once did I say that ASR nailed windows shut or that there were guards on the property....but you knew that.
You keep blaming your father for stuff, you are grown up now, Anne, straight is closed the world is changing.
I put the blame for what happened to me in Straight right where it lies....with Straight itself and my father. Even he has begun to understand the damage he and it did to me and feels pretty damn badly about it now.
What are you doing at ASR if you don't work for Aspen? Perhaps that's why you deleted the post so quickly. Another slip that shows you for the shill you are?
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Waaaaaiiiiit a minute here. Whooter, you told me and Danny you had two sons in programs and that you worked with them not for them. You had a daughter in one too? News to me.
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What happened Whooter? You deleted your post so quickly, but I had already begun to respond to it so here it is in all it's glory.
Second, I'm not embellishing by saying that there were guards at the door and the windows were nailed shut. It's absolutely true. My father is just as guilty of it as the rest of the parents.
I know for a fact that you are lying again, Anne. I walked over to several windows in ASR and I just opened them. It was very easy. The windows in my daughters dorm room were not looked either. There was no evidence that they were ever nailed shut. As I walked around the campus there were no guards to keep the kids on the property. There is a general store about a mile away.
Once again, you're purposely twisting my words. I was speaking of my experience at Straight and why I believed the kids who told me that the same types of things are still going on at different programs now. Not once did I say that ASR nailed windows shut or that there were guards on the property....but you knew that.
You keep blaming your father for stuff, you are grown up now, Anne, straight is closed the world is changing.
I put the blame for what happened to me in Straight right where it lies....with Straight itself and my father. Even he has begun to understand the damage he and it did to me and feels pretty damn badly about it now.
What are you doing at ASR if you don't work for Aspen? Perhaps that's why you deleted the post so quickly. Another slip that shows you for the shill you are?
If you are talking about straight then say: "35 years ago in a place called straight that is closed now......" You dont do that you speak like you are referring to all programs. You ask me to stop using the word "We" then stop misleading the readers and remind them that you are referring to a program that is in the past.
What do you mean what was I doing at ASR? You know my daughter went there.
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Waaaaaiiiiit a minute here. Whooter, you told me and Danny you had two sons in programs and that you worked with them not for them. You had a daughter in one too? News to me.
Hold on there, Whooter. You told me a different story and Danny too. You said you had "two boys" in programs and not "a daughter". What gives?
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Waaaaaiiiiit a minute here. Whooter, you told me and Danny you had two sons in programs and that you worked with them not for them. You had a daughter in one too? News to me.
Hold on there, Whooter. You told me a different story and Danny too. You said you had "two boys" in programs and not "a daughter". What gives?
Funny.
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Only we're not kidding. It's not that big of a deal if you had three kids in programs or only two but I have no idea why you would start saying this now after telling us about the two boys only. So if I read correctly you had three of your kids in programs and not just the boys.
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Only we're not kidding. It's not that big of a deal if you had three kids in programs or only two but I have no idea why you would start saying this now after telling us about the two boys only. So if I read correctly you had three of your kids in programs and not just the boys.
No, I didnt have any boys in programs nor did I ever say that I did. I had a daughter who attended ASR and SUWS. I hope that clears it up.
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Only we're not kidding. It's not that big of a deal if you had three kids in programs or only two but I have no idea why you would start saying this now after telling us about the two boys only. So if I read correctly you had three of your kids in programs and not just the boys.
No, I didnt have any boys in programs nor did I ever say that I did. I had a daughter who attended ASR and SUWS. I hope that clears it up.
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It doesn't though. I have read several posts here also that you were saying wilderness was good for your "son" not daughter. Since you also told us that you had two sons in programs that made sense to me but now you're saying you also had a daughter in two programs when before you said that both your boys went to two programs each. Now you're saying you had three kids going to six programs. I'm fine with that because it just shows your a great parent but why not just say it up front is what I'm wondering.
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Only we're not kidding. It's not that big of a deal if you had three kids in programs or only two but I have no idea why you would start saying this now after telling us about the two boys only. So if I read correctly you had three of your kids in programs and not just the boys.
No, I didnt have any boys in programs nor did I ever say that I did. I had a daughter who attended ASR and SUWS. I hope that clears it up.
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It doesn't though. I have read several posts here also that you were saying wilderness was good for your "son" not daughter. Since you also told us that you had two sons in programs that made sense to me but now you're saying you also had a daughter in two programs when before you said that both your boys went to two programs each. Now you're saying you had three kids going to six programs. I'm fine with that because it just shows your a great parent but why not just say it up front is what I'm wondering.
Wow 6 programs now! Ha,Ha,Ha. Why not toss the link up and we can take a look at what I said.
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viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28642&p=344767#p344767 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28642&p=344767#p344767)
Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.
Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here. The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.
Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.
it says your son not daughter was in wilderness and wanted to become a counselor which is great but you dod say son and not daughter.
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What happened Whooter? You deleted your post so quickly, but I had already begun to respond to it so here it is in all it's glory.
Second, I'm not embellishing by saying that there were guards at the door and the windows were nailed shut. It's absolutely true. My father is just as guilty of it as the rest of the parents.
I know for a fact that you are lying again, Anne. I walked over to several windows in ASR and I just opened them. It was very easy. The windows in my daughters dorm room were not looked either. There was no evidence that they were ever nailed shut. As I walked around the campus there were no guards to keep the kids on the property. There is a general store about a mile away.
Once again, you're purposely twisting my words. I was speaking of my experience at Straight and why I believed the kids who told me that the same types of things are still going on at different programs now. Not once did I say that ASR nailed windows shut or that there were guards on the property....but you knew that.
You keep blaming your father for stuff, you are grown up now, Anne, straight is closed the world is changing.
I put the blame for what happened to me in Straight right where it lies....with Straight itself and my father. Even he has begun to understand the damage he and it did to me and feels pretty damn badly about it now.
What are you doing at ASR if you don't work for Aspen? Perhaps that's why you deleted the post so quickly. Another slip that shows you for the shill you are?
If you are talking about straight then say: "35 years ago in a place called straight that is closed now......" You dont do that you speak like you are referring to all programs.
I do. I talk about my experience in Straight and how similar it is to what I'm hearing kids talk about now coming out of programs and I point that out. C'mon....you know this.
What do you mean what was I doing at ASR? You know my daughter went there.
Yes, but you said "I walked over to several windows in ASR and I just opened them.". That implies that you are at ASR now.
I'd still like to know why you deleted your post so quickly, but somehow I doubt I'll get a real answer. Just like the son/daughter issue.
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http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28642&p=344767#p344767
Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.
Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here. The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.
Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.
it says your son not daughter was in wilderness and wanted to become a counselor which is great but you dod say son and not daughter.
Uh oh!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rocker: :rocker: :rocker: :rocker: :rocker: :rocker:
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Will you give the man a second, Anne? he just said to pu tup the link where he said his son was at wilderness and it's right here. he said he sent his son to second Nature and he really liked it and wanted to become a counselor. He'll explain it to you.
http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28642&p=344767#p344767
Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.
Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here. The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.
Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.
it says your son not daughter was in wilderness and wanted to become a counselor which is great but you dod say son and not daughter.
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Will you give the man a second, Anne? he just said to pu tup the link where he said his son was at wilderness and it's right here. he said he sent his son to second Nature and he really liked it and wanted to become a counselor. He'll explain it to you.
Oh, I'm sure he will. I have to give the man credit where credit is due.....he's a bullshit artist extraordinaire...i.e. marketer and he's damn good at it. We've been through this countless times with him. I'm just waiting to see what the excuse is this time.
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Will you give the man a second, Anne? he just said to pu tup the link where he said his son was at wilderness and it's right here. he said he sent his son to second Nature and he really liked it and wanted to become a counselor. He'll explain it to you.
http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28642&p=344767#p344767
Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.
Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here. The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.
Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.
it says your son not daughter was in wilderness and wanted to become a counselor which is great but you dod say son and not daughter.
Ha,Ha,Ha I remember that one. I was being trolled pretty good. Everyone thought this poster "Worried Anne" was me trolling so they were giving her a hard time. So I posted to even the scales a bit. Read the whole thread its only two pages.
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Ha,Ha,Ha I remember that one. I was being trolled pretty good. Everyone thought this poster "Worried Anne" was me trolling so they were giving her a hard time. So I posted to even the scales a bit. Read the whole thread its only two pages.
At least this excuse was original. Still bullshit though. You can always tell when someone's hit a nerve with you....the "Ha,Ha,Ha"s come out.
Seriously though, why did you delete that post upthread so quickly?
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I do. I talk about my experience in Straight and how similar it is to what I'm hearing kids talk about now coming out of programs and I point that out. C'mon....you know this.
Sometimes you write things that occurred in straight and you make it seem like they happened today.
What do you mean what was I doing at ASR? You know my daughter went there.
Yes, but you said "I walked over to several windows in ASR and I just opened them.". That implies that you are at ASR now.
I'd still like to know why you deleted your post so quickly, but somehow I doubt I'll get a real answer. Just like the son/daughter issue.
Oh, I see what you mean, no I remember opening windows because it was stuffy in there. I like having lots of air and dont like closed windows (unless it is really cold out).
I deleted the post because I wanted to add another thought to it.
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Ha,Ha,Ha I remember that one. I was being trolled pretty good. Everyone thought this poster "Worried Anne" was me trolling so they were giving her a hard time. So I posted to even the scales a bit. Read the whole thread its only two pages.
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I just read the whole thread and it looks like you posting as a guest and quoting yourself so you could then talk about how good your son did in his program, which I understand, your son did great and you want to brag and tell the haters their wrong. But if you want to talk about how good he did why not just say that up front too. I didn't see any trolling in that thread just some talking about second Nature and then you said your son loved it there. I would be proud of it too if I had three successful program grad kids.
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See how they ridiculed this poor woman and her story? Posters here pretended to know her son and they said they were in the program with her son and told her that he was gay. You people were bashing a survivor and his parents. You chased her off so I stepped in to even the score so to speak. At least I wasnt being hurtful and cruel like you guys were.
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What do you mean by even the score? I only tell the truth about my experiences. Who needs to even a score about their truth? You admitted your son was at second Nature on your own nobody forced you to say it. There's nothing wrong with Wilderness, you sent your son there as you said in that post and you should be proud of it not trying to make up some story that you were only faking having a happy son in wilderness when it's obviously a true story. 99% of boys sent to wilderness thrive and get back on track like your son.
See how they ridiculed this poor woman and her story? Posters here pretended to know her son and they said they were in the program with her son and told her that he was gay. You people were bashing a survivor and his parents. You chased her off so I stepped in to even the score so to speak. At least I wasnt being hurtful and cruel like you guys were.
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I do. I talk about my experience in Straight and how similar it is to what I'm hearing kids talk about now coming out of programs and I point that out. C'mon....you know this.
Sometimes you write things that occurred in straight and you make it seem like they happened today.
Some of them are. Like the LGATs and attack 'therapy', but they were just called something different in Straight. But then again, that's what programs do.....just change the names but the methods are basically the same. Or, they get shut down for abuse then re-open under a different name.
What do you mean what was I doing at ASR? You know my daughter went there.
Yes, but you said "I walked over to several windows in ASR and I just opened them.". That implies that you are at ASR now.
I'd still like to know why you deleted your post so quickly, but somehow I doubt I'll get a real answer. Just like the son/daughter issue.
Oh, I see what you mean, no I remember opening windows because it was stuffy in there. I like having lots of air and dont like closed windows (unless it is really cold out).
Riiiiiiiiiiight.
I deleted the post because I wanted to add another thought to it.
But you didn't. You posted something completely different. If you just wanted to "add another thought to it", you'd have just edited it. One of these days you're gonna spin so hard and so fast that you'll actually take flight. ::)
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What do you mean by even the score? I only tell the truth about my experiences. Who needs to even a score about their truth? You admitted your son was at second Nature on your own nobody forced you to say it. There's nothing wrong with Wilderness, you sent your son there as you said in that post and you should be proud of it not trying to make up some story that you were only faking having a happy son in wilderness when it's obviously a true story. 99% of boys sent to wilderness thrive and get back on track like your son.
See how they ridiculed this poor woman and her story? Posters here pretended to know her son and they said they were in the program with her son and told her that he was gay. You people were bashing a survivor and his parents. You chased her off so I stepped in to even the score so to speak. At least I wasnt being hurtful and cruel like you guys were.
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I just felt bad for this woman and her son. She was new here and being honest and what did she get? A bunch of posters here calling her son gay and a loser. She was chased off and I jumped in to even the score.
I would probably do it again if the circumstances were the same.
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What do you mean by even the score? I only tell the truth about my experiences. Who needs to even a score about their truth? You admitted your son was at second Nature on your own nobody forced you to say it. There's nothing wrong with Wilderness, you sent your son there as you said in that post and you should be proud of it not trying to make up some story that you were only faking having a happy son in wilderness when it's obviously a true story. 99% of boys sent to wilderness thrive and get back on track like your son.
See how they ridiculed this poor woman and her story? Posters here pretended to know her son and they said they were in the program with her son and told her that he was gay. You people were bashing a survivor and his parents. You chased her off so I stepped in to even the score so to speak. At least I wasnt being hurtful and cruel like you guys were.
I just felt bad for this woman and her son. She was new here and being honest and what did she get? A bunch of posters here calling her son gay and a loser. She was chased off and I jumped in to even the score.
I would probably do it again if the circumstances were the same.
(http://http://www.pangolin.com/images/spin_vga.jpg)
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I do. I talk about my experience in Straight and how similar it is to what I'm hearing kids talk about now coming out of programs and I point that out. C'mon....you know this.
Sometimes you write things that occurred in straight and you make it seem like they happened today.
Some of them are. Like the LGATs and attack 'therapy', but they were just called something different in Straight. But then again, that's what programs do.....just change the names but the methods are basically the same. Or, they get shut down for abuse then re-open under a different name.
What do you mean what was I doing at ASR? You know my daughter went there.
Yes, but you said "I walked over to several windows in ASR and I just opened them.". That implies that you are at ASR now.
I'd still like to know why you deleted your post so quickly, but somehow I doubt I'll get a real answer. Just like the son/daughter issue.
Oh, I see what you mean, no I remember opening windows because it was stuffy in there. I like having lots of air and dont like closed windows (unless it is really cold out).
Riiiiiiiiiiight.
I deleted the post because I wanted to add another thought to it.
But you didn't. You posted something completely different. If you just wanted to "add another thought to it", you'd have just edited it. One of these days you're gonna spin so hard and so fast that you'll actually take flight. ::)
Anne, why do ask questions if you are not going to believe the answer? Why do you think I deleted the post then? I dont see anything wrong with it or incriminating. No misspelled words? If you think I should not of deleted it they why?
You dont seem to be making any sense.
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#### Duplicate ####
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I still don't understand evening the score. What score were you evening? You have said before that you always tell the truth about your experiences with the many programs you work with and I have no reason to believe you would lie about your own son. That would be out of character for you. You could have just told your story about how happy your son was to go to Second nature and wanted to be a counselor without feeling like you had to even a score. believe me the score is pro-program-100 antiprogram-0 right now because of stories like yours about your son. That's good enough without making stuff up too.
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Anne, why do ask questions if you are not going to believe the answer? Why do you think I deleted the post then?
I think it gave away something that you didn't mean to. I'm not really sure what that is, yet, but if you simply wanted to "add a thought", you'd have just edited the post instead of deleting it.
I dont see anything wrong with it or incriminating. No misspelled words? If you think I should not of deleted it they why?
Careful....your nerves are showing. You're smarter than that sentence.
It's just not the usual thing to do if all you want to do is "add a thought". Usually you just hit the edit button and add your thought, not delete the entire post and then post something completely different and claim that you were just "adding a thought".
You dont seem to be making any sense.
Uh huh. Right. ::)
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Anne, why do ask questions if you are not going to believe the answer? Why do you think I deleted the post then?
I think it gave away something that you didn't mean to. I'm not really sure what that is, yet, but if you simply wanted to "add a thought", you'd have just edited the post instead of deleting it.
I dont see anything wrong with it or incriminating. No misspelled words? If you think I should not of deleted it they why?
Careful....your nerves are showing. You're smarter than that sentence.
It's just not the usual thing to do if all you want to do is "add a thought". Usually you just hit the edit button and add your thought, not delete the entire post and then post something completely different and claim that you were just "adding a thought".
You dont seem to be making any sense.
Uh huh. Right. ::)
I usually dont write directly on the board. I write in msword and then cut an paste it into the forum. If it is a lengthy post I will delete it, change or add thoughts in the word document and then re-post it. So it is more natural for me to delete it than edit it on the live board.
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Good thing you didn't delete the success story of your son. I really enjoy seeing parents take pride in their kid's successes at Wilderness programs and your son is no exception.
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I usually dont write directly on the board. I write in msword and then cut an paste it into the forum. If it is a lengthy post I will delete it, change or add thoughts in the word document and then re-post it. So it is more natural for me to delete it than edit it on the live board.
That still doesn't explain it. You said that you just wanted to "add a thought", but you didn't do that. You posted something completely different.
You're having to work a little harder today, huh? Careful, you seriously just might fly away!
:rofl: :rofl:
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I usually dont write directly on the board. I write in msword and then cut an paste it into the forum. If it is a lengthy post I will delete it, change or add thoughts in the word document and then re-post it. So it is more natural for me to delete it than edit it on the live board.
That still doesn't explain it. You said that you just wanted to "add a thought", but you didn't do that. You posted something completely different.
You're having to work a little harder today, huh? Careful, you seriously just might fly away!
:rofl: :rofl:
What are you talking about? I didnt even post it at all after I deleted it. When I went to repost I noticed that you captured my first post and replied to it. So I wasnt going to duplicate the post. I just let it go "as is" without my additions.
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I usually dont write directly on the board. I write in msword and then cut an paste it into the forum. If it is a lengthy post I will delete it, change or add thoughts in the word document and then re-post it. So it is more natural for me to delete it than edit it on the live board.
That still doesn't explain it. You said that you just wanted to "add a thought", but you didn't do that. You posted something completely different.
You're having to work a little harder today, huh? Careful, you seriously just might fly away!
:rofl: :rofl:
What are you talking about? I didnt even post it at all after I deleted it. When I went to repost I noticed that you captured my first post and replied to it. So I wasnt going to duplicate the post. I just let it go "as is" without my additions.
Okey doke.
:rofl:
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What are you talking about?
This:
Here he admits to having his SON sent to Second Nature Wilderness: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28642&start=15#p382352)
Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.
Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here. The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.
Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.
Face it.....you got busted buddy boy.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I admit that, Anne, but read through the thread and see what they did to this woman "worried Anne" and calling her son gay and pretending to be survivors with her son.
I dont see it as being wrong at all. I feel sorry for the woman. I would probably do it again if the situation warranted.
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Whoopsie. :notworthy: :notworthy: :eek: :nods: :deal: :seg: :bs:
Classic.
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Danny you continue to boast that you have a vast array of friends who are ex-straightlings. I suspect that you don't have alot of friends to begin with and my guess is that you don't know anybody from straight inc on a personal level. If you did you wouldn't mock and make light of what happened there. If you do in fact know anyone who was in Straight my guess is you met that person in AA or the like. Most ex-straightlings that you find still hanging out at AA or NA etc are still brainwashed. They were taught as a teen that they are a lifelong drug addict and only through Straight were they able to save their life. They still believe that crock of shit even 30 years later. I know a couple of these types and i feel sorry for them. Most of us who were there remember what happened without having to sugarcoat it. Those that think Straight saved their life will always minimize the abuse they suffered and saw there. They have to do that or they will have to face the harsh reality. The harsh reality might threaten their precious sobriety though so they continue to pretend. Pathetic really.
Danny please list all of the ex-straightlings that you know. I might know them. Maybe we have mutual friends.
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Why Anne, you always speak for everyone here.
Anne, loves to say, "Oh, yeah, I talked to so and so about this and that, just the other day. I caught here as she was running from the program. We stopped at Starbucks, had a cappuccino and she told me everything".
Yeah, I talked with a AA person and she told me she was kidnapped and forced to go to meetings.
In Annes world, everything is parallel to 30 years ago.
What it god's name are you babbling about now? If you could construct even a single legible sentence, you might get more attention, er...responses. As it is now, you're viewed as a mere annoyance with very little knowledge of....well, anything really.
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Why Anne, you always speak for everyone here.
Anne, loves to say, "Oh, yeah, I talked to so and so about this and that, just the other day. I caught her as she was running from the program. We stopped at Starbucks, had a cappuccino and she told me everything".
Yeah, I talked with a AA person and she told me she was kidnapped and forced to go to meetings.
In Annes world, everything is parallel to 30 years ago.
What it god's name are you babbling about now? If you could construct even a single legible sentence, you might get more attention, er...responses. As it is now, you're viewed as a mere annoyance with very little knowledge of....well, anything really.
I really do not care if you know what I am talking about or not, whether you think I am making sense or not. Why???? I am not talking to you. The folks I am writing to understand completely, just ask them.
You directed the post to me, you idiot. Jeezus....it's a wonder you haven't drowned yourself in the shower. ::)
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Why Anne, you always speak for everyone here.
No, I did not. Read the post. I was writing about you, not to you.
Like I said.....it's a wonder you haven't drowned yourself in the shower. This has got to be a joke. Nobody is this stupid. :beat:
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Why Anne, you always speak for everyone here.
No, I did not. Read the post. I was writing about you, not to you.
Like I said.....it's a wonder you haven't drowned yourself in the shower. This has got to be a joke. Nobody is this stupid. :beat:
Well obviously you are stupid because you can not read and comprehend at the same time. Anne, it is not a joke. If you need help just ask and I'll walk you through my post.
You truly are one of the stupidest people I've run across here. ::)
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Priceless. John's son wants to be a counselor. Which son is that Whootie?
So when people hear you call yourself inmates they know that you are exaggerating so you must also be exaggerating when speaking of your other experiences also. The school and parents refer to you as students, the state refers to you as residents, but you chose to redefine yourself to gain attention and embellish your position there. Your credibility erodes when it is viewed that you are seeking attention.
Just want to point that out.
The people who were abused in these programs and didnt buy into the brainwashing know I'm not exaggerating John. We were treated like inmates, so we called ourselves that. Apparently going by what other posters from other time periods and programs have had to say, not much has changed at all. Whatsmore what you're describing is no different than how the abusive programs you cling to treated us. Rules weren't ever called rules, they were called agreements. I don't know about your kids John, but I never agreed to a thing. I didnt sign anything, I didn't acknowledge anything, I sure as hell didn't shake anyone's hand. Yet somehow despite all that I was reminded consistently about how I was violating agreements I had somehow made. The staff called rules something different to water it down. I wonder if you had an issue with that? You seem to keep forgetting my experience with this industry gives my opinion more weight than yours. I understand that you're an industry insider, but you're too afraid to admit that, so you really have nothing to base any of your comments on.
On a seperate note, the windows at HLA were locked as well. I pointed that out the fire hazard at one point and was promptly placed on restriction for "manipulating".
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The people who were abused in these programs and didnt buy into the brainwashing know I'm not exaggerating John.
See, but we all know that you are lying because brainwashing isnt something that people can buy into. Brainwashing is involuntary Bruce. You are not being truthful with us. But then how could you know, you have no idea of what goes on inside a program because you barely got settled before you left.
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See, but we all know that you are lying because brainwashing isnt something that people can buy into. Brainwashing is involuntary Bruce. You are not being truthful with us. But then how could you know, you have no idea of what goes on inside a program because you barely got settled before you left.
Spoken like a person who knows a great deal about attempting to brainwash people. My hat's off to you John, you can brain wash the simple minded (like your friend Danny over there) with the best of them. Didn't you once tell me your Grandfather was an S.S. and he taught you most of your techniques?
That aside, it doesn't really take a year to settle in John, which is how long I was at HLA. Again, you have nothing to offer that can suggest otherwise. It's time you accepted this. Because in the end, until you start being honest, no matter how much time I spent locked up in that dump (still a year), it's still far more time than you ever did with your imaginary daughter. That being the case my opinion will forever have more bearing than yours. I can speak from my personal experiences and you can't. Perhaps when you start being honest you'll finally gain some credibility.
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I am beginning to believe from reading most of his posts, he is not a resident/student of any program. He is a mocking bird.
Of course you think that son. Your man crush Whooter John told you to think it. No real basis, but when have you ever needed to think something through?
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Sorry, I haven't been keeping up with the drama in this thread. Fuck trolls.
I found my first letter home. It's a trip to read now. How do you convince your parents that a reputable boarding school they've already forked over thousands of dollars for is actually an abusive hellhole on your third day? When they know that letter is coming and were told to ignore everything in it?
I am told that [my family representative] hits harder than the "family fathers" (physically - like punching). No doubt he will be going to work on you trying to make you strict and not let you regret your decision. Understand that there are multiple reasons for telling you that, but one of them is to keep you from helping me leave "The Program." Since they will get to you before my letters can give you a second viewpoint, I ask that you read my words and put everything else out of your mind. Keep things they tell you to the side like they never happened, then consider it all after.
Since I brought up [Family Rep's] hit, I need you to think about something before you read the next paragraph. What is your opinion on beating kids, whether they did something wrong or not? Alright?
The "Family Fathers" hit/beat "students" regularly. As of this writing they have not really touched me yet. When I say hit I don't mean smack or spank. Imagine the absolute hardest a grown man can hit, then one notch below that. I can't think of a single person other than me who hasn't been hit or beaten severely for little or no reason in the few days I've been here. It is so constant that I can't even write about every time it happens in my journal. More than once I have sat down to write about something I'd seen or heard, and a "family father" would be start hurting boys again. This is in addition to punishments of reduced level and merits.
Guess who she believed? ::)
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Sorry, I haven't been keeping up with the drama in this thread. Fuck trolls.
I found my first letter home. It's a trip to read now. How do you convince your parents that a reputable boarding school they've already forked over thousands of dollars for is actually an abusive hellhole on your third day? When they know that letter is coming and were told to ignore everything in it?
I am told that [my family representative] hits harder than the "family fathers" (physically - like punching). No doubt he will be going to work on you trying to make you strict and not let you regret your decision. Understand that there are multiple reasons for telling you that, but one of them is to keep you from helping me leave "The Program." Since they will get to you before my letters can give you a second viewpoint, I ask that you read my words and put everything else out of your mind. Keep things they tell you to the side like they never happened, then consider it all after.
Since I brought up [Family Rep's] hit, I need you to think about something before you read the next paragraph. What is your opinion on beating kids, whether they did something wrong or not? Alright?
The "Family Fathers" hit/beat "students" regularly. As of this writing they have not really touched me yet. When I say hit I don't mean smack or spank. Imagine the absolute hardest a grown man can hit, then one notch below that. I can't think of a single person other than me who hasn't been hit or beaten severely for little or no reason in the few days I've been here. It is so constant that I can't even write about every time it happens in my journal. More than once I have sat down to write about something I'd seen or heard, and a "family father" would be start hurting boys again. This is in addition to punishments of reduced level and merits.
Guess who she believed? ::)
Thank you thomasc for posting that. I did a search for "Family Fathers" and couldnt find anything. It doesnt sound like a very nice place. Where is this place located?
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It doesnt sound like a very nice place.
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Would it surprise you to learn it was a NATSAP-certified shit pit? It shouldn't. This still happens today. Restricting phone contact and telling parents that children are just "manipulating" when they complain of abuse lead nowhere else. There is no legitimate purpose behind restricting and censoring communication. This is how abuse is concealed long enough for parents' bank accounts to be drained. Nobody wants believe they have done such a thing to their own child. I find your defense and denial of child abuse on this forum extremely offensive and know I won't be the first to ask you to fuck off.
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thomasC, Whooter knows a lot about concealment and misleading and lying. He operates just like the programs do and it's no coincidence either. You know how he has claimed to have a daughter who went to ASR and SUWS for the past 5 or 6 years, right? Turns out none of that is true, just as we all suspected:
Whooter finally admits his whole story here is straight cock-and-bull nonsense.
Here he admits to having his SON sent to Second Nature Wilderness: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28642&start=15#p382352)
Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.
Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here. The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.
Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.
Face it.....you got busted buddy boy.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I admit that, Anne, but read through the thread and see what they did to this woman "worried Anne" and calling her son gay and pretending to be survivors with her son.
I dont see it as being wrong at all. I feel sorry for the woman. I would probably do it again if the situation warranted.
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Since he lies about his own "family story" what else could he be lying about (besides the hundreds of lies he's already been busted for)? Makes one wonder, eh?
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It doesnt sound like a very nice place.
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Would it surprise you to learn it was a NATSAP-certified shit pit? It shouldn't. This still happens today. Restricting phone contact and telling parents that children are just "manipulating" when they complain of abuse lead nowhere else. There is no legitimate purpose behind restricting and censoring communication. This is how abuse is concealed long enough for parents' bank accounts to be drained. Nobody wants believe they have done such a thing to their own child. I find your defense and denial of child abuse on this forum extremely offensive and know I won't be the first to ask you to fuck off.
So your letter was made up. Why didnt you come out and tell us instead of getting defensive and attacking me for asking you a question?
You should state:
The following letter was fabricated in order to make a point
or something along those lines so the readers are not misled.
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But you fabricated your entire family story and never gave the caveat "I, Whooter, am a liar and the foilowing statement is an utter lie made up to advance my agenda and promote programs."
Whooter finally admits his whole story here is straight cock-and-bull nonsense.
Here he admits to having his SON sent to Second Nature Wilderness: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28642&start=15#p382352)
Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.
Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here. The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.
Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.
Face it.....you got busted buddy boy.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I admit that, Anne, but read through the thread and see what they did to this woman "worried Anne" and calling her son gay and pretending to be survivors with her son.
I dont see it as being wrong at all. I feel sorry for the woman. I would probably do it again if the situation warranted.
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Finally forced to admit his whole story here is bullshit. Priceless.
Hahahahahahahaha.
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The letter does disprove the thought here, many posters have, that kids' mail is censored or screened. This child was able to easily communicate the abuse he was witnessing inside of a program to his/her parents. This open line of communication between child and parents is healthy in my opinion and demonstrates that programs do not restrict communication along the levels that many posters believe they do.
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This letter disproves you ever had a daughter in a program and that you're a congenital liar:
Whooter finally admits his whole story here is straight cock-and-bull nonsense.
Here he admits to having his SON sent to Second Nature Wilderness: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28642&start=15#p382352)
Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.
Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here. The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.
Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.
Face it.....you got busted buddy boy.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I admit that, Anne, but read through the thread and see what they did to this woman "worried Anne" and calling her son gay and pretending to be survivors with her son.
I dont see it as being wrong at all. I feel sorry for the woman. I would probably do it again if the situation warranted.
...
Finally forced to admit his whole story here is bullshit. Priceless.
:rocker: :rofl: :feedtrolls: :feedtrolls: :feedtrolls: :feedtrolls:
-
Would it surprise you to learn it was a NATSAP-certified shit pit?
Yup...NATSAP's "certifications" mean nothing. They're a self governing organization and basically just another marketing arm for the TTI.
It shouldn't. This still happens today. Restricting phone contact and telling parents that children are just "manipulating" when they complain of abuse lead nowhere else. There is no legitimate purpose behind restricting and censoring communication. This is how abuse is concealed long enough for parents' bank accounts to be drained. Nobody wants believe they have done such a thing to their own child. I find your defense and denial of child abuse on this forum extremely offensive and know I won't be the first to ask you to fuck off.
It was really, really difficult for my father to even begin to come to terms with it. He considers himself such a strong and intelligent person (and he is) and it's got him reeling now that he's starting to understand the devastating consequences of his choices. At least he's starting now though and he's genuinely trying, so I gotta give him that.
And you're absolutely right. It is still happening today. Same shit, different wrapper is how I refer to it. All these "schools" that use those same bullshit LGAT type methods of attack therapy, isolation and "positive peer pressure" are nothing more than re-education camps and thought reform institutions. The Senate (Sam Ervin specifically I believe) compared what was done to the kids at the Seed to what some of the Korean war POW's were exposed to as far as thought reform. The sleep deprivation, isolation from the outside world, all the thought stopping techniques etc. And Straight was supposed to be the "kinder, gentler" version of the Seed but ended up being the exact opposite, especially after Newton got ahold of it. Unfortunately, that's what seems to happen to most of the places that get shut down for abuse or close their doors because they've lost so much revenue amidst abuse allegations.....they just re-open under a different name, promising that "things are different this time....honest they are". It's such crap.
-
Another point is that we can see a big improvement from the days of programs like straight. Kids communication was restricted and letters like this, talking about abuse within the program, could never get out. So we can see that change has definitely taken place in the area of communication with family members.
...
-
Another point is that we can see a big improvement from the days of programs like straight. Kids communication was restricted and letters like this, talking about abuse within the program, could never get out. So we can see that change has definitely taken place in the area of communication with family members.
Wrong. Again. Letters did eventually get to some of the parents, but just as Thomas said, they had been "pre-warned" to ignore the allegations of abuse and to re-enforce to the child that they were not going to be 'pulled', no matter what.
-
Another point is that we can see a big improvement from the days of programs like straight. Kids communication was restricted and letters like this, talking about abuse within the program, could never get out. So we can see that change has definitely taken place in the area of communication with family members.
...
Even FAKE family members I guess.
Whooter finally admits his whole story here is straight cock-and-bull nonsense.
Here he admits to having his SON sent to Second Nature Wilderness: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28642&start=15#p382352)
Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.
Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here. The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.
Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.
Face it.....you got busted buddy boy.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I admit that, Anne, but read through the thread and see what they did to this woman "worried Anne" and calling her son gay and pretending to be survivors with her son.
I dont see it as being wrong at all. I feel sorry for the woman. I would probably do it again if the situation warranted.
...
Finally forced to admit his whole story here is bullshit. Priceless.
-
Another point is that we can see a big improvement from the days of programs like straight. Kids communication was restricted and letters like this, talking about abuse within the program, could never get out. So we can see that change has definitely taken place in the area of communication with family members.
Wrong. Again. Letters did eventually get to some of the parents, but just as Thomas said, they had been "pre-warned" to ignore the allegations of abuse and to re-enforce to the child that they were not going to be 'pulled', no matter what.
I have read here that, in many programs, if you wrote anything negative about the program they would tear the letter up and made you rewrite it. The OP shows this not to be true and the conduit of communication is wide open and child can say whatever they like to their parents.
...
-
So your letter was made up. Why didnt you come out and tell us instead of getting defensive and attacking me for asking you a question?
You should state:
The following letter was fabricated in order to make a point
or something along those lines so the readers are not misled.
...
Why would I make something like this up? You think I like to remember these things? I posted that portion of the letter so there would be no obfuscation from you. My school, certified by NATSAP, employed known child abusers. Known because I reported them and provided physical evidence. Guess how many were fired? Suspended? Given a stern talking to?
Staff inspected every letter so I got into the habit of writing letters so long nobody would bother reading them. Letters were torn up but when you get paid minimum wage you couldn't care less about some kid's novel. Didn't stop them from denying everything when my mother called the school in a panic the first time she got one. Of course, I lost points for the phone call.
-
Another point is that we can see a big improvement from the days of programs like straight. Kids communication was restricted and letters like this, talking about abuse within the program, could never get out. So we can see that change has definitely taken place in the area of communication with family members.
Wrong. Again. Letters did eventually get to some of the parents, but just as Thomas said, they had been "pre-warned" to ignore the allegations of abuse and to re-enforce to the child that they were not going to be 'pulled', no matter what.
I have read here that, in many programs, if you wrote anything negative about the program they would tear the letter up and made you rewrite it. The OP shows this not to be true and the conduit of communication is wide open and child can say whatever they like to their parents.
They're geared to work in basically the same way.....to keep the truth from getting to the parents. Once you "earn" the right to either speak or write to your parents, conversations are monitored. Some programs handle it a little bit differently, but it's all with the same result. Even if letter do get thru, they "pre-warn" parents not to believe any abuse allegations. Whether it's done by not letting the letter actually go thru at all, or conditioning the parents to not believe what their kids are telling them, the result is the same. The parents do not know (or are in denial) that their kids are being abused. The parents do not know what really happens to their kids while they're under the "care" and control of programs.
You can spin it all you like, but that's the fact Jack.
-
So your letter was made up. Why didnt you come out and tell us instead of getting defensive and attacking me for asking you a question?
You should state:
The following letter was fabricated in order to make a point
or something along those lines so the readers are not misled.
...
Why would I make something like this up? You think I like to remember these things? I posted that portion of the letter so there would be no obfuscation from you. My school, certified by NATSAP, employed known child abusers. Known because I reported them and provided physical evidence. Guess how many were fired? Suspended? Given a stern talking to?
Staff inspected every letter so I got into the habit of writing letters so long nobody would bother reading them. Letters were torn up but when you get paid minimum wage you couldn't care less about some kid's novel. Didn't stop them from denying everything when my mother called the school in a panic the first time she got one. Of course, I lost points for the phone call.
You forgot to mention that the school doesnt exist, therefore fabricated.
...
-
So your letter was made up. Why didnt you come out and tell us instead of getting defensive and attacking me for asking you a question?
You should state:
The following letter was fabricated in order to make a point
or something along those lines so the readers are not misled.
...
Why would I make something like this up? You think I like to remember these things? I posted that portion of the letter so there would be no obfuscation from you. My school, certified by NATSAP, employed known child abusers. Known because I reported them and provided physical evidence. Guess how many were fired? Suspended? Given a stern talking to?
Staff inspected every letter so I got into the habit of writing letters so long nobody would bother reading them. Letters were torn up but when you get paid minimum wage you couldn't care less about some kid's novel. Didn't stop them from denying everything when my mother called the school in a panic the first time she got one. Of course, I lost points for the phone call.
thomasC, look who you're talking to here, buddy. He thinks you'd make that up because he went as far as to invent a fictional family that he invented a fictional "program success story" for, but in the end it all fell apart. He's as fake and phony as they come, thomasC, and so is his entire "family story" he made up here to promote programs.
Whooter finally admits his whole story here is straight cock-and-bull nonsense.
Here he admits to having his SON sent to Second Nature Wilderness: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28642&start=15#p382352)
Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.
Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here. The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.
Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.
Face it.....you got busted buddy boy.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I admit that, Anne, but read through the thread and see what they did to this woman "worried Anne" and calling her son gay and pretending to be survivors with her son.
I dont see it as being wrong at all. I feel sorry for the woman. I would probably do it again if the situation warranted.
...
Finally forced to admit his whole story here is bullshit. Priceless.
-
You forgot to mention that the school doesnt exist, therefore fabricated.
...
You already asked me the name of the school in this very goddamn thread. What will you do, now that you have the name again? Was I lying then too? Or did I really go to the school and just lie in my letter to manipulate my parents? Please, Whooter, find a way to invalidate my memory and this stack of letters. I know you're up to the task.
-
Another point is that we can see a big improvement from the days of programs like straight. Kids communication was restricted and letters like this, talking about abuse within the program, could never get out. So we can see that change has definitely taken place in the area of communication with family members.
Wrong. Again. Letters did eventually get to some of the parents, but just as Thomas said, they had been "pre-warned" to ignore the allegations of abuse and to re-enforce to the child that they were not going to be 'pulled', no matter what.
I have read here that, in many programs, if you wrote anything negative about the program they would tear the letter up and made you rewrite it. The OP shows this not to be true and the conduit of communication is wide open and child can say whatever they like to their parents.
They're geared to work in basically the same way.....to keep the truth from getting to the parents. Once you "earn" the right to either speak or write to your parents, conversations are monitored. Some programs handle it a little bit differently, but it's all with the same result. Even if letter do get thru, they "pre-warn" parents not to believe any abuse allegations. Whether it's done by not letting the letter actually go thru at all, or conditioning the parents to not believe what their kids are telling them, the result is the same. The parents do not know (or are in denial) that their kids are being abused. The parents do not know what really happens to their kids while they're under the "care" and control of programs.
You can spin it all you like, but that's the fact Jack.
All I am saying is this kids was only there a few days and he was able to get a letter out to his parents without it being censored. This goes counter to what many people say here.
Its a good thing, Anne. If more programs can open up communication like this program does then it will be good for everyone.
...
-
You forgot to mention that the school doesnt exist, therefore fabricated.
...
You already asked me the name of the school in this very goddamn thread. What will you do, now that you have the name again? Was I lying then too? Or did I really go to the school and just lie in my letter to manipulate my parents? Please, Whooter, find a way to invalidate my memory and this stack of letters. I know you're up to the task.
Why are you so upset? I am not attacking you. You said the programs was NATSAP certified. I did a search for "Family Fathers" but didnt see it on the list. This is why I stated that the program doesnt exist. Maybe you were mistaken about the name?
...
-
You forgot to mention that the school doesnt exist, therefore fabricated.
...
You already asked me the name of the school in this very goddamn thread. What will you do, now that you have the name again? Was I lying then too? Or did I really go to the school and just lie in my letter to manipulate my parents? Please, Whooter, find a way to invalidate my memory and this stack of letters. I know you're up to the task.
Why are you so upset? I am not attacking you. You said the programs was NATSAP certified. I did a search for "Family Fathers" but didnt see it on the list. This is why I stated that the program doesnt exist. Maybe you were mistaken about the name?
...
When did I claim the program was named "family fathers"? This was the name the program gave to the counselors who were so fond of attacking us. Only you could spin abuse and lies to cover up abuse into a good thing. Abuse still takes place in programs. If this was a supposedly "certified" school why should I imagine the situation was different at any of the others? This was something of a flagship program and I attended after they had already had a suicide and a class action lawsuit filed against them. If this is a program on its best behavior what do you think goes on when they think nobody is watching? If you would like an idea try browsing through any of the boards on fornits. Only you could stare so much evidence in the face and ignore it all. Programs are inherently abusive. You're a moron if you think otherwise.
(who am I kidding? you know exactly what programs are like)
-
How could he stare abuse in the face and lie about it, thomasC? Just like he lied about his entire family history with programs:
Whooter finally admits his whole story here is straight cock-and-bull nonsense.
Here he admits to having his SON sent to Second Nature Wilderness: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28642&start=15#p382352)
Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.
Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here. The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.
Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.
Face it.....you got busted buddy boy.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I admit that, Anne, but read through the thread and see what they did to this woman "worried Anne" and calling her son gay and pretending to be survivors with her son.
I dont see it as being wrong at all. I feel sorry for the woman. I would probably do it again if the situation warranted.
...
Finally forced to admit his whole story here is bullshit. Priceless.
-
When did I claim the program was named "family fathers"? This was the name the program gave to the counselors who were so fond of attacking us. Only you could spin abuse and lies to cover up abuse into a good thing. Abuse still takes place in programs. If this was a supposedly "certified" school why should I imagine the situation was different at any of the others? This was something of a flagship program and I attended after they had already had a suicide and a class action lawsuit filed against them. If this is a program on its best behavior what do you think goes on when they think nobody is watching? If you would like an idea try browsing through any of the boards on fornits. Only you could stare so much evidence in the face and ignore it all. Programs are inherently abusive. You're a moron if you think otherwise.
(who am I kidding? you know exactly what programs are like)
Sorry, Thomasc, I checked the letter against the names of certified schools that are covered under NATSAP and it doesnt exist. So we can only conclude that you fabricated the letter to mislead the readers.
"Family fathers" was the name you gave of the school and it doesnt exist.
But the letter does show that kids are able to communicate with there parents freely even in their first few weeks of being in the program.
...
-
So we can only conclude that you fabricated the letter to mislead the readers.
You would know about fabricating and misleading, Whooter. Just have a look at your quote below. You lied for nearly six years about even having a daughter, man. That's some desperate shit right there, folks! But you got caught in your huge lie : ( Too bad.
Whooter finally admits his whole story here is straight cock-and-bull nonsense.
Here he admits to having his SON sent to Second Nature Wilderness: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28642&start=15#p382352)
Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.
Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here. The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.
Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.
Face it.....you got busted buddy boy.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I admit that, Anne, but read through the thread and see what they did to this woman "worried Anne" and calling her son gay and pretending to be survivors with her son.
I dont see it as being wrong at all. I feel sorry for the woman. I would probably do it again if the situation warranted.
...
Finally forced to admit his whole story here is bullshit. Priceless.
-
It's important for the readers, Danny, to know that person accusing others of "fabrication" with no evidence whatsoever, is actuall an admittedly huge liar whose entire "story" is fake. Whooter should be branded with a scarlet "L" so that everyone who reads here knows everything he has claimed here is a complete fabrication.
I thought you wanted to have truthful dialogue, Danny? I wonder why you're so quick to stand up for a liar like Whooetr when you always say you are only interested in the truth?
Bottom line: Whooter is a complete and utter phony as is his fictitious "daughter" who "did well at her program."
-
It's important for the readers, Danny, to know that person accusing others of "fabrication" with no evidence whatsoever, is actuall an admittedly huge liar whose entire "story" is fake. Whooter should be branded with a scarlet "L" so that everyone who reads here knows everything he has claimed here is a complete fabrication.
I thought you wanted to have truthful dialogue, Danny? I wonder why you're so quick to stand up for a liar like Whooetr when you always say you are only interested in the truth?
Bottom line: Whooter is a complete and utter phony as is his fictitious "daughter" who "did well at her program."
Bla Bla Bla.....Like I said who cares.
-
Danny has got his shovel out to try to bury Whooter's "truth" but it ain't happening. Danny also admits he doesn't care if Whooter is lying about his entire family story either, even after Whooter confessed it. But he's busy going after survivors asking for "evidence" they were even in programs. Gotta love Fornits and the idiot a-holes like Whooter that spend years fabricating their entire family story only to have it blown up in their faces in the end anyway. Epic fail, Whooter. Epic fail DrunkyB II.
-
All I am saying is this kids was only there a few days and he was able to get a letter out to his parents without it being censored. This goes counter to what many people say here.
Its a good thing, Anne. If more programs can open up communication like this program does then it will be good for everyone.
But you insist on putting the spin on it that there's been any substantive improvement when there hasn't. So the kid is able to get a letter out.....doesn't do much good when the program has already conditioned the parents to not believe their kids when they say they're being abused.
It's your same old shitspin.
-
...
-
All I am saying is this kids was only there a few days and he was able to get a letter out to his parents without it being censored. This goes counter to what many people say here.
Its a good thing, Anne. If more programs can open up communication like this program does then it will be good for everyone.
But you insist on putting the spin on it that there's been any substantive improvement when there hasn't. So the kid is able to get a letter out.....doesn't do much good when the program has already conditioned the parents to not believe their kids when they say they're being abused.
It's your same old shitspin.
It may be a total shitpit as you call them. But we can disband the thought that these places interrupt communication between parent and child. Here is an example of a child who wrote a letter home to his parents within a few days of arriving and it went out uncensored.
So we know that if someone says they all their outgoing mail was read and torn up if it said anything bad we can site an example that this does not hold true for todays programs. They may be total shitpits but the kids are allowed to communicate freely with their family at home.
...
-
:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :eek: :eek: :cheers: :feedtrolls: :feedtrolls: :rofl: :rocker: :rocker:
Desperate to avoid his "truth," Whooter requires extra encounter groups to "get honest" and "work the program" while DrunkyB II just chimes in with inanities while he's home drunk instead of running that "medium size business" he claims to own. These two are jokers.
Whooter finally admits his whole story here is straight cock-and-bull nonsense.
Here he admits to having his SON sent to Second Nature Wilderness: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28642&start=15#p382352)
Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.
Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here. The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.
Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.
Face it.....you got busted buddy boy.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I admit that, Anne, but read through the thread and see what they did to this woman "worried Anne" and calling her son gay and pretending to be survivors with her son.
I dont see it as being wrong at all. I feel sorry for the woman. I would probably do it again if the situation warranted.
...
Finally forced to admit his whole story here is bullshit. Priceless.
It's not going to go away, guys. Sorry.
-
All I am saying is this kids was only there a few days and he was able to get a letter out to his parents without it being censored. This goes counter to what many people say here.
Its a good thing, Anne. If more programs can open up communication like this program does then it will be good for everyone.
But you insist on putting the spin on it that there's been any substantive improvement when there hasn't. So the kid is able to get a letter out.....doesn't do much good when the program has already conditioned the parents to not believe their kids when they say they're being abused.
It's your same old shitspin.
It may be a total shitpit as you call them. But we can disband the thought that these places interrupt communication between parent and child.
No, "we" can't. (Just stop it already.....so many of us have asked you to stop that. You'd think you might at least just honor that one simple request....call it a gesture of good will) You might be able to, but most sane people can't because we know it's not true.
Here is an example of a child who wrote a letter home to his parents within a few days of arriving and it went out uncensored.
And the program staff felt comfortable with it because they knew the parents had been sufficiently conditioned to not believe their own child. The end results are the same.
So we know that if someone says they all their outgoing mail was read and torn up if it said anything bad we can site an example that this does not hold true for todays programs.
No, "we" can't. You might be able to hold this one example up of this one program, but again......it still didn't make any real difference when the program had already conditioned the parents to not believe their own child.
They may be total shitpits but the kids are allowed to communicate freely with their family at home.
No, they're not. Free communication would mean that the programs wouldn't condition the parents to not believe their kids cries for help.
-
I think when he says "we" he means himself and the fictitious daughter he created for public consumption on Fornits.
Whooter finally admits his whole story here is straight cock-and-bull nonsense.
Here he admits to having his SON sent to Second Nature Wilderness: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28642&start=15#p382352)
Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.
Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here. The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.
Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.
Face it.....you got busted buddy boy.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I admit that, Anne, but read through the thread and see what they did to this woman "worried Anne" and calling her son gay and pretending to be survivors with her son.
I dont see it as being wrong at all. I feel sorry for the woman. I would probably do it again if the situation warranted.
...
Finally forced to admit his whole story here is bullshit. Priceless.
-
No, "we" can't. You might be able to hold this one example up of this one program, but again......it still didn't make any real difference when the program had already conditioned the parents to not believe their own child.
I know that you will not mention this letter to anyone or reference it because you only want to report the negative aspects of the program (which is a form of lying in itself). At least I report the truth of talking about the good and bad aspects of the programs. We will reference it because it is the truth, you will not.
I might stop using "we" if you quit your whining about everyone "spinning" every time you lose and argument. It is getting old. You spin more than anyone and we dont cry over it all the time.
...
-
At least I report the truth
Oops.
Whooter finally admits his whole story here is straight cock-and-bull nonsense.
Here he admits to having his SON sent to Second Nature Wilderness: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28642&start=15#p382352)
Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.
Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here. The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.
Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.
Face it.....you got busted buddy boy.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I admit that, Anne, but read through the thread and see what they did to this woman "worried Anne" and calling her son gay and pretending to be survivors with her son.
I dont see it as being wrong at all. I feel sorry for the woman. I would probably do it again if the situation warranted.
...
Finally forced to admit his whole story here is bullshit. Priceless.
I don't believe Whooter even knows what the word "truth" means, much less how to be "truthful" about anything.
-
No, "we" can't. You might be able to hold this one example up of this one program, but again......it still didn't make any real difference when the program had already conditioned the parents to not believe their own child.
I know that you will not mention this letter to anyone or reference it because you only want to report the negative aspects of the program (which is a form of lying in itself).
Sure I will. I'll be glad to.....but I'll also tell them the full truth which is that the program was OK with the kids sending those letter out because they had already conditioned the parents to not believe their children's cries for help.
At least I report the truth of talking about the good and bad aspects of the programs.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
We will reference it because it is the truth, you will not.
Who's "we". Are you claiming to know what I will or will not do in the future? Wow, do you have superpowers?
I might stop using "we" if you quit your whining about everyone "spinning" every time you lose and argument.
I haven't lost. You've lied and you've been caught so you're spinning like crazy to try and deflect the attention away from it.
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I haven't lost. You've lied and you've been caught so you're spinning like crazy to try and deflect the attention away from it.
He always squeals like this when confronted with provable lies. With this programmie, the harder you hit him, the louder he squeals.
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I haven't lost. You've lied and you've been caught so you're spinning like crazy to try and deflect the attention away from it.
He always squeals like this when confronted with provable lies. With this programmie, the harder you hit him, the louder he squeals.
Yup...he and DannyBoi have that in common. But at least Whooter can manage to string together a coherent sentence.
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I haven't lost. You've lied and you've been caught so you're spinning like crazy to try and deflect the attention away from it.
He always squeals like this when confronted with provable lies. With this programmie, the harder you hit him, the louder he squeals.
Yup...he and DannyBoi have that in common. But at least Whooter can manage to string together a coherent sentence.
Yeah, but all of his complete sentences are complete lies.
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Inspecting and tearing up letters was in the counselors' job description. Most of the time they just didn't bother to more than glance at them. No idea what it was like in the rest of the facility. I did see letters being torn up but you had to go out of your way to get noticed by them. I strongly suspect they could not read.
Also I watched them abuse kids on a daily basis - occasionally leaving marks. Never did much to me but it's pretty fucked up hearing the yelps of boys being punched in the testes or having blocks of ice thrown at their groins or being power kicked in the gut or sliced up with a lunchtray shank. Really, I wish I were making it up.
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In all fairness to others we should take the attacks over to one of the "Free for all" Threads. There are some liar threads that have already been established.
Back on Topic?
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The topic is "Many Many Programs Abuse Kids" and the ones you refer to do it as well. I believe that's "on topic" enough to be germane to this thread.
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Inspecting and tearing up letters was in the counselors' job description. Most of the time they just didn't bother to more than glance at them. No idea what it was like in the rest of the facility. I did see letters being torn up but you had to go out of your way to get noticed by them. I strongly suspect they could not read.
Also I watched them abuse kids on a daily basis - occasionally leaving marks. Never did much to me but it's pretty fucked up hearing the yelps of boys being punched in the testes or having blocks of ice thrown at their groins or being power kicked in the gut or sliced up with a lunchtray shank. Really, I wish I were making it up.
That sounds terrible. Why wont you give us the name of the program?
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Inspecting and tearing up letters was in the counselors' job description. Most of the time they just didn't bother to more than glance at them. No idea what it was like in the rest of the facility. I did see letters being torn up but you had to go out of your way to get noticed by them. I strongly suspect they could not read.
Also I watched them abuse kids on a daily basis - occasionally leaving marks. Never did much to me but it's pretty fucked up hearing the yelps of boys being punched in the testes or having blocks of ice thrown at their groins or being power kicked in the gut or sliced up with a lunchtray shank. Really, I wish I were making it up.
That sounds terrible. Why wont you give us the name of the program?
You sure didn't seem to be demanding which program Max claimed to have saved his life. I could be wrong so please correct me if I am, I didn't take the time to look but I don't remember you asking that of Max when we all were. Why the sudden interest?
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Inspecting and tearing up letters was in the counselors' job description. Most of the time they just didn't bother to more than glance at them. No idea what it was like in the rest of the facility. I did see letters being torn up but you had to go out of your way to get noticed by them. I strongly suspect they could not read.
Also I watched them abuse kids on a daily basis - occasionally leaving marks. Never did much to me but it's pretty fucked up hearing the yelps of boys being punched in the testes or having blocks of ice thrown at their groins or being power kicked in the gut or sliced up with a lunchtray shank. Really, I wish I were making it up.
That sounds terrible. Why wont you give us the name of the program?
You sure didn't seem to be demanding which program Max claimed to have saved his life. I could be wrong so please correct me if I am, I didn't take the time to look but I don't remember you asking that of Max when we all were. Why the sudden interest?
I just think it is unfair to others to trash the threads here. There are plenty of threads already started for that.
This letter interests me because Thomasc indicated that it is NATSAP certified and that they openly use corporal punishment and beatings, yet freely let these kids write letters home. Just wondering which program this is.
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It's one used by your goons over at STICC probably. Now here's a "STICCy result" that Whooter can't get free from:
Whooter has told on himself.
when people are angry at other people, they can make things up. max was angry at his dad for sending him to a school that robbed him of his youth and closure with his mother. It is equally as likely that he was directing his anger towards his dad and making things up, as it is that his dad was actually involved in his mother's death.
Does anyone know how long Max was away from HLA for his mothers funeral? Was he forced to go?
3 Days maybe 4 I dont remember. A family member an aunt I think picked him up and went back with him. He wasnt forced to go, he was glad to get a break from that place.
Well, here's the conclusive proof that TheWho is either John Reuben or the most shameless liar of all time on Fornits, or both.
Please explain to us, Whooter, how you are privy to the family information. We're all ears.
Here's more of WHooter's detailed, unpublished information regarding Mike Reuben:
Prior to ASR the father had Mike seen by a specialist in the field of addiction and he was referred to a Counselor who worked one on one with him. As his grades continued to slip and his relationship with drugs became stronger he was recommended to ASR by The Director of Pediatrics at Children’s Hospital in Boston.
ASR was able to arrest his behavior, teach him to cope with himself and the problems that life will and has thrown at him and set him on a healthy path. He graduated ASR, attended and graduated from college and continued his interest in Music and a made himself successful in a career in Sales. He continued to struggle throughout his life with his addiction until it finally took his life.
As we all know addiction isn’t something that is cured but is a lifetime challenge and each person attempts to hold it at bay the best he can. The road can be long and arduous and in many instances the road is short as it was for Mike.
Please be respectful of this boys life and struggles and don’t twist his story to make him a tool for your agenda.
How would Whooter know all of this unpublished information?
Hmmmm..... Getting more interesting as we go...
Funny. I think most people know and have used the word "junkie" before. I had never seen it spelled "junky" (when referring to a "junkie") before until today.
If you tie a junky to his bed for a couple of days to get him past the physical addiction is it considered cruel? If he comes thru it and says “Thank you man you saved my life, I owe you big time, my friend” is that worth it to both of you? Should you go to jail for restraining someone? Kidnapping? Torture?
That word appears nowhere else on this forum except that post. But, it does appear elsewhere on the 'net...
Live Music Junky
...on John Reuben's MySpace page.
Also from John Reuben's MySpace page (from 2007, before Mike died, but after his wife, Lena, died):
John's Blurbs
About me:
I am 48, father of two older boys, runner, and live music lover. My tastes range mostly from blues to classic rock, to alternative. Recent shows: Everclear Peter Yorn Chicago Steely Dan Widespread Panic Eric Clapton Allman Brothers Sarah Borges Entrain Jeff Pitchell I see about 30-40 shows a year.
Who I'd like to meet:
Hoping to meet someone I can share some time with and in particular, see sdome music with this summer.
"Who" else on Fornits is a "Live Music Junky" that always talks about how many shows he sees?
I also noticed that he didn't say he is a "widower," he says he is "divorced." Pretty creepy considering that other posters here who went to HLA with Max said that Max "blamed his father for his mother's death."
Children: I don't want kids
Yeah, no shit. I think we knew that already.
Hometown: Philadelphia
"Who" else on Fornits is from Philly...?
I spent so much time sleeping in the streets around the spectrum in Philadelphia waiting for the ticket offices to open up that the homeless and I started to recognize and nod to each other. Ticket-tron was just getting started and they were only given a limited number of tickets to sell, so the only guarantee was the ticket office. Besides many other things I was a concert junkie.
I wont tell you my year of birth. But the concert was in the winter 1973, December I think, and it was at the Spectrum in Philadelphia. It was the Quadrophenia tour.
He does it "to get something positive out of this tragedy and let people know this happens in fortunate and unfortunate families, in Malden, Somerville, Sudbury and Los Angeles," he said.
Malden, eh? I wonder "Who" else has posted from Malden here on Fornits...?
24.41.10.XXX [ 1197 Posts ] [ Look up IP address ]
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24.41.82.XXX [ 1616 Posts ] [ Look up IP address ]
IP Address Country Region City Latitude/Longitude ZIP Code Time Zone
24.41.10.XXX UNITED STATES MASSACHUSETTS MALDEN 42.4305-71.0574 02148 -05:00
Net Speed ISP Domain
DSL EARTHLINK INC EARTHLINK.NET
IDD Code Area Code Weather Station
1 781 USMA0228 - MALDEN
Then we have Whooter posting from IP address (thanks for giving Psy permission to post these IP's Whooter. It has been a big help to me!) 24.41.82.XXX.
And where does our handy little IP Locator put this IP address? "Swampscott, MA."
Who might Whooter know in Swampscott, I wonder...?
Catherine Reuben! (http://http://maps.google.com/maps/place?rlz=1T4GGLG_enUS312US312&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=SWAMPSCOTT+%22reuben%22&fb=1&gl=us&hq=reuben&hnear=Swampscott,+MA&cid=526551623140969011)
Just "coincidences" I suppose...?
Whooter, or John, whichever you prefer, you are the biggest fucking phony liar I have ever had the displeasure to become acquainted with.
Boy, I guess that MCSE and research PhD did come in handy after all...
It has been fun, douche, but the game is over. You've been outed for all eternity
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Thomas please, give us the name of this program.
Why weren't you guys demanding this of Max when he was bragging about how his program "saved his life"?
This is horrible, are you sure you are not confusing this experience with one that a friend explained to you while he was in Juvie or maybe it was a little bit later in your life and you are explaining a experience a friend had while in prison.
Why on Earth would you suggest that?
Thomas we just need you to come forward and be able to accurately tell us the name of the program or If you were confused at the time of this posting, we can clear that up too. Think you could do this for us, son.
Son? You are such a prick.
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Anne, it would help a great deal if you could take your emotional reactions to the "offa" forum. Thanks.
Max id not here any more, lets move on.
:twofinger: Although I'm not sure if Max's id was ever here or not. Interesting that you don't want to address the issue of why you weren't demanding that Max reveal where he went, but you are of Thomas.....and trying to belittle him in the process. Typical staff response.
Thomas we just need you to come forward and be able to accurately tell us the name of the program or If you were confused at the time of this posting, we can clear that up too. Think you could do this for us, son.
Son? You are such a prick.
Please, move your emotional responses to the "offa" forum. Thanks.
You're telling me that after calling him "son", again trying to belittle someone? Pot, meet kettle. :twofinger:
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Danny is exhibiting many of the same tactics that staff use in abusive programs to hurt inmates they dont like. Parents please take note. Someone like Danny will have complete authority over your child once you place them in a program. Do you really want that?
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Thomas please, give us the name of this program.
Why weren't you guys demanding this of Max when he was bragging about how his program "saved his life"?
Anne, it would help a great deal if you could take your emotional reactions to the "offa" forum. Thanks.
Max id not here any more, lets move on.
This is horrible, are you sure you are not confusing this experience with one that a friend explained to you while he was in Juvie or maybe it was a little bit later in your life and you are explaining a experience a friend had while in prison.
Why on Earth would you suggest that?
Why don't we let Thomas explain, OK.
Thomas we just need you to come forward and be able to accurately tell us the name of the program or If you were confused at the time of this posting, we can clear that up too. Think you could do this for us, son.
Son? You are such a prick.
Please, move your emotional responses to the "offa" forum. Thanks.
:waaaa:
Danny is exhibiting many of the same tactics that staff use in abusive programs to hurt inmates they dont like. Parents please take note. Someone like Danny will have complete authority over your child once you place them in a program. Do you really want that?
:cheers: :notworthy: :tup: :tup:
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(http://http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af262/dysfunction_junction/WhootersPrecious.gif)
Whooter has been exposed. He runs a referral business that caters to abusive programs like Aspen Education Group.
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I was wrong about NATSAP. They had Northwest Association of Accredited Schools accreditation.
I mentioned earlier in the thread it was Spring Creek, a WWASPS school which has since closed. While students in my "family" were sometimes attacked as punishment it seems most of the time it was just for amusement or no reason at all. They just had very little respect for our bodies. Sometimes it was done jokingly, others they could actually draw blood or really hit someone in the groin hard. They liked to make us line up on sheets of ice and shove us from behind too. Just reckless, stupid shit. I can't know if this is how it was in other cabins but it demonstrates that it could go on and the school would just deny it and keep the staff in the same position. Kids in other families told me they had seen their own counselors hitting/restraining/choking kids basically just in anger. It was just a weird fucking place where those kinds of things happened and people just looked the other way. You were stuck until you completed the program regardless of what they did. It doesn't sound so bad compared to a lot of accounts I have read since but it still never should have happened. This is in addition to attack therapy and LGAT seminars, which informed people agree are psychologically abusive.
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I was wrong about NATSAP. They had Northwest Association of Accredited Schools accreditation.
I mentioned earlier in the thread it was Spring Creek, a WWASPS school which has since closed.
WWASPS is one of the worst of the worst.
While students in my "family" were sometimes attacked as punishment it seems most of the time it was just for amusement or no reason at all. They just had very little respect for our bodies. Sometimes it was done jokingly, others they could actually draw blood or really hit someone in the groin hard. They liked to make us line up on sheets of ice and shove us from behind too. Just reckless, stupid shit. I can't know if this is how it was in other cabins but it demonstrates that it could go on and the school would just deny it and keep the staff in the same position. Kids in other families told me they had seen their own counselors hitting/restraining/choking kids basically just in anger. It was just a weird fucking place where those kinds of things happened and people just looked the other way. You were stuck until you completed the program regardless of what they did. It doesn't sound so bad compared to a lot of accounts I have read since but it still never should have happened. This is in addition to attack therapy and LGAT seminars, which informed people agree are psychologically abusive.
No, it shouldn't have happened but unfortunately it's part and parcel of the 'positive peer culture' and LGATs. It creates that environment. One thing that helped me was to understand how all the shit could have happened. I couldn't understand how we could do that to each other. Researching thought reform really helped me a lot http://www.ex-cult.org/ (http://www.ex-cult.org/). And the Stanford Prison Study explains quite a bit about "staff". Some just enjoyed the power more than others.
http://www.prisonexp.org/ (http://www.prisonexp.org/)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment)
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No, it shouldn't have happened but unfortunately it's part and parcel of the 'positive peer culture' and LGATs. It creates that environment. One thing that helped me was to understand how all the shit could have happened. I couldn't understand how we could do that to each other. Researching thought reform really helped me a lot http://www.ex-cult.org/ (http://www.ex-cult.org/). And the Stanford Prison Study explains quite a bit about "staff". Some just enjoyed the power more than others.
http://www.prisonexp.org/ (http://www.prisonexp.org/)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment)
I had enough knowledge of these things going into the program to understand the dynamic there. Understanding doesn't make it any easier. I could tell pretty soon into my stay that Spring Creek was a mental prison as well as a physical one. By the time you're 15 you understand how evil can be rewarded. I had read Holes in elementary school and had probably seen The Prisoner by then too. "OK, so it's going to be like that." I think knowing what I was in for was what frightened/motivated me so much not to give in.
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No, it shouldn't have happened but unfortunately it's part and parcel of the 'positive peer culture' and LGATs. It creates that environment. One thing that helped me was to understand how all the shit could have happened. I couldn't understand how we could do that to each other. Researching thought reform really helped me a lot http://www.ex-cult.org/ (http://www.ex-cult.org/). And the Stanford Prison Study explains quite a bit about "staff". Some just enjoyed the power more than others.
http://www.prisonexp.org/ (http://www.prisonexp.org/)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment)
I had enough knowledge of these things going into the program to understand the dynamic there. Understanding doesn't make it any easier. I could tell pretty soon into my stay that Spring Creek was a mental prison as well as a physical one. By the time you're 15 you understand how evil can be rewarded. I had read Holes in elementary school and had probably seen The Prisoner by then too. "OK, so it's going to be like that." I think knowing what I was in for was what frightened/motivated me so much not to give in.
You were way farther ahead of things than I was, but then again, I was in over 20 years ago. It's amazing how even so long after, they're still doing the same shit to kids.
I wish you peace. :peace:
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Whooter Wrote:
But we can disband the thought that these places interrupt communication between parent and child.
WRONG
Take a look at this Whooter, it's from Ridge Creeks FAQ section on their website.
For the first three weeks of the program, students will be allowed to call you once a week for a conference call. A member of the RCS staff will set a convenient time for this call during the first phone call after admission. These calls will last 15 minutes and will be supervised by one of the student's counselors to ensure the student is respectful and appropriate. After your child has been at RCS for three weeks, has written you two letters, and has received one back from you, they are eligible for regular calls.
Gosh, that description sure does look familar. Almost like the exact same scenario I already described at HLA from more than 10 years ago. More proof that not only do these places restrict and censor communication, but that nothing has changed.
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For the first three weeks of the program, students will be allowed to call you once a week for a conference call. A member of the RCS staff will set a convenient time for this call during the first phone call after admission. These calls will last 15 minutes and will be supervised by one of the student's counselors to ensure the student is respectful and appropriate. After your child has been at RCS for three weeks, has written you two letters, and has received one back from you, they are eligible for regular calls.
Thanks for clearing that up Bruce. So just like I stated previously the kids can write letters during their first weeks there. In fact they indicate the child will write 2 letters during their first weeks and they will receive one back. A decade or so ago the programs use to restrict communication for the first several weeks but we can see this has changed.
This agrees with what I had stated earlier from ThomasC who had written a letter home in his first few days and it went out unread by the staff.
I has always been widely believed here on fornits that these places block communication with family but this shows that they encourage it and actually write it into their procedures to insure that the families keep in touch.
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Attempting to spin again John? You feign ignorance on a topic you know all too well. You help these programs develop their abusive tactics.
No one at any point claimed we weren't allowed to write letters home, you're just attempting to lie about comments made by others because you know you've been proven wrong yet again. The fact is you are actually made to write letters home. The issue being that those letters are screened first. Anything in the letter that is viewed as going against program speak and the letter gets trashed.
Here you have another poster, from a different program, from a different time period telling the exact same story I am. You can bury your head in the sand all you want John, parents aren't, and that's why your beloved abusive industry is dying.
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For the first three weeks of the program, students will be allowed to call you once a week for a conference call. A member of the RCS staff will set a convenient time for this call during the first phone call after admission. These calls will last 15 minutes and will be supervised by one of the student's counselors to ensure the student is respectful and appropriate. After your child has been at RCS for three weeks, has written you two letters, and has received one back from you, they are eligible for regular calls.
So with this admission from Ridge Creek we now all agree on the fact that programs do still restrict and censor communications between parent and child, and that this practice is abusive. I'm glad we've settled yet another reason why these programs are unsafe.
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For the first three weeks of the program, students will be allowed to call you once a week for a conference call. A member of the RCS staff will set a convenient time for this call during the first phone call after admission. These calls will last 15 minutes and will be supervised by one of the student's counselors to ensure the student is respectful and appropriate. After your child has been at RCS for three weeks, has written you two letters, and has received one back from you, they are eligible for regular calls.
When my daughter attended ASR initially we didnt have communication for several weeks and did not have our initial phone call for over a month, due to her time in the wilderness portion. As parents we indicated to the school that we thought more communication would be an improvement. It is good to see that many of these programs are starting to allow communication with family at the onset.
ThomasC confirmed, in another thread, that his program also allows letters the first few days after being placed.
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A. You didn't have a daughter, you've been caught. Stop lying. There's really no need to pretend things any further.
B. If you bothered to actually read Thomas' post rather than attempting to spin as part of your pro child abuse PR campaign you'd see that he acknowledges that communication was restricted and controlled. I'd be happy to show the post if you're too obtuse to acknowledge it.
C. Thomas acknowledged that due to the laziness and ineptitude of the abusive staff you so readily support letters could be snuck out. I myself snuck several letters out because of the stupidity of the staff.
D. The posting from RC proves that not only do they cut off all phone calls until certain conditions are met, but that even after that point communications are still controlled.
None of your usual lies will disuade anyone from the truth. These programs have and continue to monitor control and censor communication between parents and children. This is an abusive practice that is only ever done to keep parents in the dark regarding the truth about these places.
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A. You didn't have a daughter, you've been caught. Stop lying. There's really no need to pretend things any further.
B. If you bothered to actually read Thomas' post rather than attempting to spin as part of your pro child abuse PR campaign you'd see that he acknowledges that communication was restricted and controlled. I'd be happy to show the post if you're too obtuse to acknowledge it.
C. Thomas acknowledged that due to the laziness and ineptitude of the abusive staff you so readily support letters could be snuck out. I myself snuck several letters out because of the stupidity of the staff.
D. The posting from RC proves that not only do they cut off all phone calls until certain conditions are met, but that even after that point communications are still controlled.
None of your usual lies will disuade anyone from the truth. These programs have and continue to monitor control and censor communication between parents and children. This is an abusive practice that is only ever done to keep parents in the dark regarding the truth about these places.
Look, Bruce, I am not going to argue with you about my family members. No one knows on this forum except myself. Sometimes when opinions are flying it is good to go back to the original post:
Ridge Creek procedure:
For the first three weeks of the program, students will be allowed to call you once a week for a conference call. A member of the RCS staff will set a convenient time for this call during the first phone call after admission. These calls will last 15 minutes and will be supervised by one of the student's counselors to ensure the student is respectful and appropriate. After your child has been at RCS for three weeks, has written you two letters, and has received one back from you, they are eligible for regular calls.
So we can clearly see that communication is not Restricted at Ridge Creek. The kids get to sent letters home pretty much right away and the parents write back to them. When my daughter attended ASR I had to wait a lot longer than that and it wasnt considered to be abusive. Many of the parents indicated that they would like to see communication opened up a bet so they didnt have to wait so long. From you post it seems the industry is starting to loosen up the rules and procedures a little.
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COMMUNICATION WITH STUDENTS
Sponsors understand that there is no telephone contact with the student until the student has obtained Advanced Status which normally takes 60 to 120 days or longer. It is very important that the Student earn this privilege. During the first 60 to 120 plus days both the Sponsor and the Student may write as often as they choose but telephone calls are not allowed as they are disruptive to the students' progress and it distracts their focus in the School. Once the students have demonstrated their progress in the School by obtaining Advanced Status, monthly telephone calls with the Sponsors become an important part of the School. We recommend your first visit is the Parent Child I (PCI) workshop held at the School. You will be scheduled for a PC I workshop shortly after your child has been in the school 7 months. Other criteria is the student must complete Focus and the Parent must complete Discovery. Upon review and approval of the School, a PCI can be scheduled earlier if both the parent and child have completed Focus. It is also important that we set an example by adhering to the School rules ourselves. For this reason, we ask that you REFRAIN FROM REQUESTING ANY EXCEPTIONS, as it negatively affects not only your child's progress, but the other students in the School. This was agreed to as part of our accepting the student into the School. Sponsors understand and agree to follow the School's visit and communication policies. Sponsors further agree that if they violate the School's communication and visit policies the School may at their option discharge the student, and yet still hold Sponsors financially accountable and responsible for the tuition on the remainder of the contract period and/or the time that would equal proper written notice [90 days].
Emphasis in original. Document is dated 11/3/06 and lists Help My Teen's phone number at the bottom.
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Look, Bruce, I am not going to argue with you about my family members. No one knows on this forum except myself.
And all the people you told about your son. You can argue this point all day if you want to Johnny, but the cat is out of the bag. You've been exposed, and trying to cover it up now only makes you look even more foolish. You lied, plain and simple, and you got caught got. Accept it.
Sometimes when opinions are flying it is good to go back to the original post:
Ridge Creek procedure:
For the first three weeks of the program, students will be allowed to call you once a week for a conference call. A member of the RCS staff will set a convenient time for this call during the first phone call after admission. These calls will last 15 minutes and will be supervised by one of the student's counselors to ensure the student is respectful and appropriate. After your child has been at RCS for three weeks, has written you two letters, and has received one back from you, they are eligible for regular calls
So we can clearly see that communication is not Restricted at Ridge Creek.
We? There is no we John, there is you. What 'we' are seeing is a program that openly acknowledges that for the first three weeks your child is incarcerated all phone calls will last only 15 minutes, and that a "counselor" will be included in all calls between you and your child. Should your child say anything the "counsleor" doesn't feel should be said, the call will be terminated. After that three week period, should you and your child meet certain conditions, your child will still only be allowed to call you once a week and still only for 15 minuets, however the counselor will merely sit in the room, and not listen in on your end of the call.
This program displays such arrogance as to actually pretend communication between parent and child is a privlidge, and not a right.
The kids get to sent letters home pretty much right away and the parents write back to them.
Make no mistake John, the kids are forced to write preapproved letters home. No letters considered to be lying, maniipulative, or abusive are approved.
When my daughter attended ASR I had to wait a lot longer than that and it wasnt considered to be abusive
Again, no need to lie about your make believe daughter. Don't mention her again, she never existed. That aside, of course it wasn't abusive for you. You hate your kids, hence why you sent them away. It is however bad for the kid who is being abused in a program. How is he supposed to tell his parents (provided his parent isnt a bad one like you) if all communication is monitored and controlled?
Answer that for me if you can John.
Many of the parents indicated that they would like to see communication opened up a bet so they didnt have to wait so long. From you post it seems the industry is starting to loosen up the rules and procedures a little.
Not at all. Read my earlier post John, I detailed was communication was like more than 10 years ago at HLA. Somehow magically the same procedures are in place. Proof postive these places never change anything but their names.
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Robert, Thomas is not a very credible poster in my opinion so please stop referring to him. Your disingenuous admiration of Thomas is sickening, anything to promote your cause, Robert.
Letters go in and out of RCS is just fine.
Really? I'm still waiting to hear how long you worked at HLA Danny? Also do you have any basis to claim Thomas isn't credible? I mean, it's not like he lied about his family members like your man crush Whooter John did. Let me know son.
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Let me know son.
Not to further stray off topic, but let's please continue to address Danny in this manner.
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Neither one of us has attended Ridge Creek, Bruce, we need to go by what they state as their procedures.
The procedures indicate that the child and parent communicate with each other fairly quickly, i.e. a couple of letters within the first 3 weeks and then the child and parents communicate by mail and phone. This written document is encouraging. Based on this information I dont see this as being abusive. There may be other aspects of the program which is abusive but this doesn't seem to be one of them in my opinion. I understand that you are trying to bring in your experience from HLA, but at this point in time we really dont know if RC is applying the same procedures in the same way. We need to rely on the procedures as they are written.
I think we can conclude that at Ridge Creek the staff works to bridge the gap of communication quite well right from the onset. I can not speak for HLA or other programs but this is a big improvement from early 2000 when ASR didnt allow communication for up to the first few months depending on when the child moved into the main campus from wilderness. I think now that ASR has disbanded its wilderness program the children are able to communicate fairly quickly like the kids at Ridge Creek do.
On a side note it doesnt matter if you believe that I have sons or daughters, but for the sake of keeping this thread from being derailed lets keep the attacks over in the "offa" thread.
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COMMUNICATION WITH STUDENTS
Sponsors understand that there is no telephone contact with the student until the student has obtained Advanced Status which normally takes 60 to 120 days or longer. It is very important that the Student earn this privilege. During the first 60 to 120 plus days both the Sponsor and the Student may write as often as they choose but telephone calls are not allowed as they are disruptive to the students' progress and it distracts their focus in the School. Once the students have demonstrated their progress in the School by obtaining Advanced Status, monthly telephone calls with the Sponsors become an important part of the School. We recommend your first visit is the Parent Child I (PCI) workshop held at the School. You will be scheduled for a PC I workshop shortly after your child has been in the school 7 months. Other criteria is the student must complete Focus and the Parent must complete Discovery. Upon review and approval of the School, a PCI can be scheduled earlier if both the parent and child have completed Focus. It is also important that we set an example by adhering to the School rules ourselves. For this reason, we ask that you REFRAIN FROM REQUESTING ANY EXCEPTIONS, as it negatively affects not only your child's progress, but the other students in the School. This was agreed to as part of our accepting the student into the School. Sponsors understand and agree to follow the School's visit and communication policies. Sponsors further agree that if they violate the School's communication and visit policies the School may at their option discharge the student, and yet still hold Sponsors financially accountable and responsible for the tuition on the remainder of the contract period and/or the time that would equal proper written notice [90 days].
Emphasis in original. Document is dated 11/3/06 and lists Help My Teen's phone number at the bottom.
Thomasc do you have a link to this? 3 to 6 months is a long time not to speak on the phone. Is this still the current practice? It is good to hear that they allow mail at the onset but I am sure the parents have spoken up about the length of time they need to wait to speak with their child. I am curious to see if they have improved this at all since then. I know at ASR the parents spoke out about this issue and the school changed their procedures for future peer groups.
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Neither one of us has attended Ridge Creek, Bruce, we need to go by what they state as their procedures.
The procedures indicate that the child and parent communicate with each other fairly quickly, i.e. a couple of letters within the first 3 weeks and then the child and parents communicate by mail and phone. This written document is encouraging. Based on this information I dont see this as being abusive. There may be other aspects of the program which is abusive but this doesn't seem to be one of them in my opinion. I understand that you are trying to bring in your experience from HLA, but at this point in time we really dont know if RC is applying the same procedures in the same way. We need to rely on the procedures as they are written.
I think we can conclude that at Ridge Creek the staff works to bridge the gap of communication quite well right from the onset. I can not speak for HLA or other programs but this is a big improvement from early 2000 when ASR didnt allow communication for up to the first few months depending on when the child moved into the main campus from wilderness. I think now that ASR has disbanded its wilderness program the children are able to communicate fairly quickly like the kids at Ridge Creek do.
On a side note it doesnt matter if you believe that I have sons or daughters, but for the sake of keeping this thread from being derailed lets keep the attacks over in the "offa" thread.
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My comments about you lying about ever having a daughter are not an attack. They are simply facts. You need to accept the consequences for your actions John. Stings doesn't it? You can wiggle wiggle but you can't break free. It's for your own good Johnny.
Again John, I challenge you to read my earlier post. Explain to me the differences between the scenario that I described from more than a decade ago, and the current RC policies. Also I'm still waiting on you to explain how a child s supposed to report abuse when communications are restricted?
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My comments about you lying about ever having a daughter are not an attack. They are simply facts. You need to accept the consequences for your actions John. Stings doesn't it? You can wiggle wiggle but you can't break free. It's for your own good Johnny.
Again John, I challenge you to read my earlier post. Explain to me the differences between the scenario that I described from more than a decade ago, and the current RC policies. Also I'm still waiting on you to explain how a child s supposed to report abuse when communications are restricted?
Bruce, if you feel I have 3 sons and 4 daughters or I lied about having "any" is okay. If you truly believe I lied that is your prerogative. But I dont think it is fair to the readers to have this discussion in the middle of every thread you and I engage in.
I have read all the posts previous to this one and I see that the current procedure allows children to contact their families directly as soon as they begin their time in Ridge Creek. They are allow telephone calls to their parents in about 3 weeks. I am just referring to their "policy". If they stray from this then we need to address this. Since you have never attended Ridge Creek I dont see how you can shed any more light on the policy than what we have read thus far.
As far as reporting abuse I read back and didnt see where I had indicated that I would comment on how they communicate these offenses. Its an interesting topic and warrants discussion in my opinion.
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Whooter wrote:
Thomasc do you have a link to this? 3 to 6 months is a long time not to speak on the phone. Is this still the current practice? It is good to hear that they allow mail at the onset but I am sure the parents have spoken up about the length of time they need to wait to speak with their child. I am curious to see if they have improved this at all since then. I know at ASR the parents spoke out about this issue and the school changed their procedures for future peer groups.
Have we got the links yet. Robert, please stop cluttering the boards with your blathering. Thanks.
If I told you this was fake and I made it up to make my program look bad would you believe me? Did it work?
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Whooter wrote:
Thomasc do you have a link to this? 3 to 6 months is a long time not to speak on the phone. Is this still the current practice? It is good to hear that they allow mail at the onset but I am sure the parents have spoken up about the length of time they need to wait to speak with their child. I am curious to see if they have improved this at all since then. I know at ASR the parents spoke out about this issue and the school changed their procedures for future peer groups.
Have we got the links yet. Robert, please stop cluttering the boards with your blathering. Thanks.
If I told you this was fake and I made it up to make my program look bad would you believe me? Did it work?
I think there are concerns that posters will try to embellish their stories to try to make a program look bad and on the flip side there are posters who state their program is a piece of cake and was like a 5 star resort. So to try smooth out the extremists on both side we try to get into the habit of posting links when possible.
If you do not have a link just say so and we will take it for what is is worth. I know there are programs out there which restrict communication for very long periods of time but these are becoming few and far between. The programs which are holding on to these policies are typically the programs which deal with the hard core kids, runaways, heavy drugs, violent, already have a record etc,
I was just curious as to which program it was and whether they have improved like many of the other programs have.
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The programs which are holding on to these policies are typically the programs which deal with the hard core kids, runaways, heavy drugs, violent, already have a record etc,
Oh, yes. I'm sure that's the reason. :beat:
This is like second nature to you now, isn't it?
http://http://www.causes.com/causes/26398/about?m=
ISAC is dead so this is all you'll get unless I decide to scan the whole contract some other time.
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The programs which are holding on to these policies are typically the programs which deal with the hard core kids, runaways, heavy drugs, violent, already have a record etc,
Oh, yes. I'm sure that's the reason. X|
This is like second nature to you now, isn't it?
http://http://www.causes.com/causes/26398/about?m=
ISAC is dead so this is all you'll get unless I decide to scan the whole contract some other time.
ThomasC, there was a school named Darrington Academy which was one of the last holdouts to handle abusive kids, runaways,Kids addicted to a drug, kids with felony conviction etc. and they would take these children and would not allow them to communicate with their families via telephone for several months because they felt the family was part of the problem. They allowed letter communication only. I believe it was a WWASP facility. Was this the place you indicated that the kids could write home in the first week or so? Was this the place where you copied the policy from?
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ThomasC, there was a school named Darrington Academy which was one of the last holdouts to handle abusive kids, runaways,Kids addicted to a drug, kids with felony conviction etc. and they would take these children and would not allow them to communicate with their families via telephone for several months because they felt the family was part of the problem. They allowed letter communication only. I believe it was a WWASP facility. Was this the place you attended and indicated that the kids could write home in the first week or so? Was this the place where you copied the policy from?
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The school told parents to ignore everything in the first letters. Everything was manipulation and none of it was to be believed. Even physical abuse (which I was frequently witness to) was dismissed as fabrication without investigation.
If I said I went to Darrington Academy, would that make the policy of holding out phone contact between children and their parents for months as a privilege to be earned acceptable? What if the children were not "abusive kids, runaways,Kids addicted to a drug, kids with felony conviction etc."? Would it still be OK?
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What was that about the bringing of good points, son?
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Have we got the links yet. Robert, please stop cluttering the boards with your blathering. Thanks.
Danny, please hold your questions till the end of the class, or come and see me during my office hours. It's obvious to everyone that you can't keep up and are just holding up the rest of us. Why don't you put your head down on your desk and take a nap while the rest of finish the lesson. Take care son.
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Bruce, if you feel I have 3 sons and 4 daughters or I lied about having "any" is okay. If you truly believe I lied that is your prerogative. But I dont think it is fair to the readers to have this discussion in the middle of every thread you and I engage in.
I get that you don't want the fact that you lied brought up at every turn. No worries John, DJ has pretty much already ensured that every poster on fornits is aware of the fact that you lied repeatedly about your circumstances, and your family. As I've said many times, you have no credibility on here, the more your online antics bleed into your day to day life, the more credibility you'll lose unplugged as well. That being the case I see no reason to discuss the matter further on this thread. You're a liar, you've been exposed. Case closed. I won't soon mention it again during this discussion unless you yourself bring it up. You have my apologies for being repeatative.
I have read all the posts previous to this one and I see that the current procedure allows children to contact their families directly as soon as they begin their time in Ridge Creek
With preapproved censored letters yes. No one has said otherwise in regards to this specific program.
They are allow telephone calls to their parents in about 3 weeks.
Calls that include the childs "counselor" and will be terminated the second the child steps out of line and says something they feel he shouldn't.
I am just referring to their "policy". If they stray from this then we need to address this.
So what you're saying is that despite the fact that it is abusive, it's okay so long as it's part of their policy?
Since you have never attended Ridge Creek I dont see how you can shed any more light on the policy than what we have read thus far.
Why not? You talk about programs you've had zero interaction with all the time. At least until you start being honest anyway. The fact of the matter is John, is that the current abusive policy held at RC is strikingly similar to the policy HLA had more than ten years ago. I'm still waiting on you to lay out the differences between the two. I don't believe that you will, because it appears you're dead set on refusking to acknowledge how little has changed with these places.
As far as reporting abuse I read back and didnt see where I had indicated that I would comment on how they communicate these offenses. Its an interesting topic and warrants discussion in my opinion.
I'm asking you directly John. How would a child who is abused in a program report the abuse to a parent when communication is restricted?
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Bruce, if you feel I have 3 sons and 4 daughters or I lied about having "any" is okay. If you truly believe I lied that is your prerogative. But I dont think it is fair to the readers to have this discussion in the middle of every thread you and I engage in.
I get that you don't want the fact that you lied brought up at every turn. No worries John, DJ has pretty much already ensured that every poster on fornits is aware of the fact that you lied repeatedly about your circumstances, and your family. As I've said many times, you have no credibility on here, the more your online antics bleed into your day to day life, the more credibility you'll lose unplugged as well. That being the case I see no reason to discuss the matter further on this thread. You're a liar, you've been exposed. Case closed. I won't soon mention it again during this discussion unless you yourself bring it up. You have my apologies for being repeatative.
I have read all the posts previous to this one and I see that the current procedure allows children to contact their families directly as soon as they begin their time in Ridge Creek
With preapproved censored letters yes. No one has said otherwise in regards to this specific program.
They are allow telephone calls to their parents in about 3 weeks.
Calls that include the childs "counselor" and will be terminated the second the child steps out of line and says something they feel he shouldn't.
I am just referring to their "policy". If they stray from this then we need to address this.
So what you're saying is that despite the fact that it is abusive, it's okay so long as it's part of their policy?
Since you have never attended Ridge Creek I dont see how you can shed any more light on the policy than what we have read thus far.
Why not? You talk about programs you've had zero interaction with all the time. At least until you start being honest anyway. The fact of the matter is John, is that the current abusive policy held at RC is strikingly similar to the policy HLA had more than ten years ago. I'm still waiting on you to lay out the differences between the two. I don't believe that you will, because it appears you're dead set on refusking to acknowledge how little has changed with these places.
As far as reporting abuse I read back and didnt see where I had indicated that I would comment on how they communicate these offenses. Its an interesting topic and warrants discussion in my opinion.
I'm asking you directly John. How would a child who is abused in a program report the abuse to a parent when communication is restricted?
I guess we should disregard this information. You rambled on about other programs and stories which you fail to back up with links. I have never seen a child post any of this information about Ridge Creek. I understand you have an experience with HLA and I have my experience and knowledge of ASR but since we know that programs can vary we cannot predict what the procedure will be at Ridge Creek Academy. As far as counselors listening in etc. this occurs during the first 3 weeks only.
What we do know is what they have published. Lets stick with the facts and take another look:
For the first three weeks of the program, students will be allowed to call you once a week for a conference call. A member of the RCS staff will set a convenient time for this call during the first phone call after admission. These calls will last 15 minutes and will be supervised by one of the student's counselors to ensure the student is respectful and appropriate. After your child has been at RCS for three weeks, has written you two letters, and has received one back from you, they are eligible for regular calls.
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What we know is that the policy has not been modified or changed in more than ten years from HLA to RC. It's the same policy, same procedures, it's still abusive.
That having been firmly established, I'm still interested to know how you believe a child who is being abused in a program is supposed to report the issues to his parents when communication is being restriced.
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Whooter, RB asks a valid question and I would like to hear your answer to it; "How would a child who is abused in a program report the abuse to a parent when communication is restricted?"
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What we know is that the policy has not been modified or changed in more than ten years from HLA to RC. It's the same policy, same procedures, it's still abusive.
I have read the procedure several times and I dont see how any part of it can be defined as abusive. I dont think the majority of readers would agree with you either. This is how the word abuse gets so watered down here on fornits with definitions like this. You are entitled to your opinion as we all are and we can agree to disagree on this point.
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What we know is that the policy has not been modified or changed in more than ten years from HLA to RC. It's the same policy, same procedures, it's still abusive.
I have read the procedure several times and I dont see how any part of it can be defined as abusive. I dont think the majority of readers would agree with you either. This is how the word abuse gets so watered down here on fornits with definitions like this. You are entitled to your opinion as we all are and we can agree to disagree on this point.
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Whooter, you are entitled to your opinion and I think we can all agree that you are a liar and a spin doctor with a (badly) hidden agenda. It was a simple question; How would a child who is abused in a program report the abuse to a parent when communication is restricted?
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Whooter, RB asks a valid question and I would like to hear your answer to it; "How would a child who is abused in a program report the abuse to a parent when communication is restricted?"
If the child is completely restricted then a child cannot report it. Say if for example the child was placed in isolation. But if the child has access to other staff then the child can speak with them and report it through their internal reporting process. The child could write a letter or talk about it to their parents. If the program is not too isolated the child could walk to a nearby business and telephone someone.
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Whooter, you are entitled to your opinion and I think we can all agree that you are a liar and a spin doctor with a (badly) hidden agenda.
I think we have all seen that you have lied from your very first post. I pointed this out to you and you just ran away which indicated your own guilt. Why do you lie to the readers this way? Why not just tell the truth and have an honest discussion?
We should continue this Here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=382975#p382975):
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Whooter, you are entitled to your opinion and I think we can all agree that you are a liar and a spin doctor with a (badly) hidden agenda.
I think we have all seen that you have lied from your very first post. I pointed this out to you and you just ran away which indicated your own guilt. Why do you lie to the readers this way? Why not just tell the truth and have an honest discussion?
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So now Whooter's asking for honesty when he just admitted his entire "family story" is a gigantic lie he admits he made up to advance his agenda here? Speaking of "liars"...Take a look below...
This is what he's trying to avoid, Robert. He finally admitted he's been lying about his made-up daughter for many years and also admits that he's fine with lying as long as it's to advance his agenda of promoting programs. "The ends justify the means" in the warped mind of this congenital liar.
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Whooter finally admits his whole story here is straight cock-and-bull nonsense.
Here he admits to having his SON sent to Second Nature Wilderness: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28642&start=15#p382352)
Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.
Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here. The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.
Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.
Face it.....you got busted buddy boy.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I admit that, Anne, but read through the thread and see what they did to this woman "worried Anne" and calling her son gay and pretending to be survivors with her son.
I dont see it as being wrong at all. I feel sorry for the woman. I would probably do it again if the situation warranted.
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Finally forced to admit his whole story here is bullshit. Priceless.
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Whooter, RB asks a valid question and I would like to hear your answer to it; "How would a child who is abused in a program report the abuse to a parent when communication is restricted?"
If the child is completely restricted then a child cannot report it. Say if for example the child was placed in isolation. But if the child has access to other staff then the child can speak with them and report it through their internal reporting process.
Report the abuse to the abusers? Oh, why didn't I think of that?
The child could write a letter or talk about it to their parents.
Write a letter? That will be screened by staff before it leaves the facility? Seriously? Talk about it to their parents? How? Even if they managed to get the privilege to call their parents, a staff member would be sitting right there with their finger on the phone ready to hang up at the first sign that the kid might be trying to say something unflattering about the program.
If the program is not too isolated the child could walk to a nearby business and telephone someone.
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I have never heard of a program where this is possible. Usually kids are not trusted on their own outside the school walls until they have been at the school for MANY months and have a good case of Stockholm Syndrome.
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Whooter, you are entitled to your opinion and I think we can all agree that you are a liar and a spin doctor with a (badly) hidden agenda.
I think we have all seen that you have lied from your very first post. I pointed this out to you and you just ran away which indicated your own guilt. Why do you lie to the readers this way? Why not just tell the truth and have an honest discussion?
We should continue this Here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=382975#p382975):
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My very first post? What the HELL are you talking about? It couldn't be that you are just trying to discredit anyone who calls you a liar, could it?
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I have read the procedure several times and I dont see how any part of it can be defined as abusive. I dont think the majority of readers would agree with you either. This is how the word abuse gets so watered down here on fornits with definitions like this. You are entitled to your opinion as we all are and we can agree to disagree on this point.
I don't expect you to consider it abusive, you have too vested an interest in these programs to ever admit that. I also seriously doubt that a majority of posters on fornits want you speaking for them. What I do know is that restricting communication between parents and children is abusive and provides no theraputic value whatsoever. It is mentaly and emotionally abusive in the fact that it seeks to control the child in way the child should not be. It seeks to control what can and cannot be said between parent and child. It seeks to supplant the relationship between parent and child. And damages the relationship and causes mistrust between parent and child.
Can you honestly give me a scenario where communication should be restricted between a non abusive parent and a child?
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I have read the procedure several times and I dont see how any part of it can be defined as abusive. I dont think the majority of readers would agree with you either. This is how the word abuse gets so watered down here on fornits with definitions like this. You are entitled to your opinion as we all are and we can agree to disagree on this point.
I don't expect you to consider it abusive, you have too vested an interest in these programs to ever admit that. I also seriously doubt that a majority of posters on fornits want you speaking for them. What I do know is that restricting communication between parents and children is abusive and provides no theraputic value whatsoever. It is mentaly and emotionally abusive in the fact that it seeks to control the child in way the child should not be. It seeks to control what can and cannot be said between parent and child. It seeks to supplant the relationship between parent and child. And damages the relationship and causes mistrust between parent and child.
Can you honestly give me a scenario where communication should be restricted between a non abusive parent and a child?
There are plenty of summer camps and outward bound programs where the child doesn't write a letter until the end of his/her first week and doesnt have phone contact for several. The procedure outlined above allows the child to begin writing in their first week, speak with their parents the first week and can accomplish a few letters in 3 weeks and then speak with their parents (non conference setting) after 3 weeks. If this is abusive to you then we clearly disagree and I dont think you will get many people to agree with you.
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My very first post? What the HELL are you talking about? It couldn't be that you are just trying to discredit anyone who calls you a liar, could it?
Oh my goodness, Shady Acres, you dont think for a minute that someone on fornits would actually call someone else a liar for the sole purpose of discrediting them or their posts would you?
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Just you and the other Nazi still remaining here, how can we get you two to follow your buddy SukitMax? Do you feel any shame at all when the programs you advocate for so strongly destroy so much potential and so many young lives that haven't even started yet? Or is it all just concert tickets to you?
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Just you and the other Nazi still remaining here, how can we get you two to follow your buddy SukitMax? Do you feel any shame at all when the programs you advocate for so strongly destroy so much potential and so many young lives that haven't even started yet? Or is it all just concert tickets to you?
You feel this way because you have not seen all the good that comes out of programs. You can only see the bad or maybe you have never seen any kids who did well, I really dont know. I have seen kids who have done terrible, I have read here about the abuse in programs. I have also seen the many kids who benefited from their time in a program. I think it is unfair to only focus on just one aspect or group of graduates. It would be closed minded of me to only recognize the kids who did well and I think it is equally closed minded of you and anyone else to only recognize the kids who did poorly or were abused.
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If the child is completely restricted then a child cannot report it.
That's a BINGO!!!! A child who is abused in his program and is further abused by restricted communication cannot report the abuse. Thank you for finally admitting that this policy fosters an unsafe environment and is in fact abusive.
Say if for example the child was placed in isolation.
Happens quite frequently. I myself was thrown out in the woods for almost a month for beating up a staff member. Another favorite tactic is to simply lock the kid up in an isolation room indefinitly. In either situation the child has no means to report or communicate any abuse to their parents.
But if the child has access to other staff then the child can speak with them and report it through their internal reporting process.
What internal reporting process? Do you have some information on this policy? Are children in the programs made aware of it upon arrival? I sure as hell was never told about one, and I've never heard another former inmate mention one. I don't think I've ever even seen a posting on here about one. What I have heard and seen repeatedly is abusive staff either not reprimanded at all, or let go temporarily only to be rehired a short time later.
Given that the normal response given to a child reporting abuse to another staff member is, "Stop manipulating." this would seem to be a fairly useless option.
The child could write a letter or talk about it to their parents.
We're talking about a scenario in which a child is placed in a program where communication is restricted. Writing a letter isn't going to do any good since all letters are screened, and any letter detailing abuse is going to be trashed. If the child is allowed to call their parents for 15 minutes a week a counselor sits right next to the phone with their finger on the button. Any attemps by the child to communicate they are being abused and the call is terminated. So no luck there.
If the program is not too isolated the child could walk to a nearby business and telephone someone.
Assuming the program isnt too isolated, the child can attempt to run away. If they're seen making the attempt a "take down" is performed which involves tackling the child to the ground and placing them in some form of hold until the child can be returned. Upon returning to the program the child is immediately either placed in isolation, or sent away indefinitely. If the child is able to successfully run away without being caught he has to first convince either a business owner to allow the use of his telephone, or make it to the police. At HLA we were actually warned about the first option. We were told by the headmaster that any attempts to get help from the locals would result in a gun being pointed at our face. Does that strike you as using fear tactics or being manipulative? The second option involves convincing the police to believe you and not simply take you right back to the program where you will of course be isolated. If you are able to use the phone at the police department you still have to hope they wont return you to the program, and the only way that will happen is if your injuries are severe. Of course if your injuries are that severe chances are you weren't able to make to the police station to begin with.
So it appears as if the child who is abused and is restricted in his communication really doesnt have any good option in order to report the abuse. Once again proving that this policy fosters an unsafe environment and is abusive.
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RB, you say it is firmly established that RCS has the same policy, procedures and is allegedly abusive. Yet you cite nothing to confirm these accusations.
You mean the post from RC's website posted several days ago and reposted several time by both Whooter John and myself? You mean I should cite that policy Danny? It really would be best if you just held your questions for later.
Is this the procedure, you were explaining to me in another post, that you used to allegedly shut down HLA.
Explain to me why someone would use HLA's communication policy to shut their program down.
Wow, why do you act like this. I can understand you did not like your alleged time in HLA, OK.
Robert what do you hope to accomplish with undocumented information and allegations you can not account for.
Which allegations son, be specific now.
The people in charge at RCS are not going to implode as Buchi did, so good luck. They are professionals.
Everyone wanted Buchi gone as they did Richard Darrington.
Buch is still very much around and involved RC. Richard Darrington does not work at RC nor did he work at HLA. I have no idea why you're bringing him up in this conversation. You only further highlight your ignorance on the subject.
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There are plenty of summer camps and outward bound programs where the child doesn't write a letter until the end of his/her first week and doesnt have phone contact for several. The procedure outlined above allows the child to begin writing in their first week, speak with their parents the first week and can accomplish a few letters in 3 weeks and then speak with their parents (non conference setting) after 3 weeks. If this is abusive to you then we clearly disagree and I dont think you will get many people to agree with you.
They already do John, that why conversations like this go on.
Provide for me a summer camp that prohibits open communication between parent and child, censors and screens outgoing and incoming letters, only allows 15 minutes per week for a child to call home, and monitors all phone calls and terminates them at will.
A summer camp John, not a theraputic or rehab program that disguises itself as one.
You already admitted that a child who is abused has no way of reporting the abuse in a program where communication is restricted.
You have yet to answer the question about how such a policy would be beneficial between a non abusive parent and a child.
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So it appears as if the child who is abused and is restricted in his communication really doesnt have any good option in order to report the abuse. Once again proving that this policy fosters an unsafe environment and is abusive.
This doesn't prove anything, Bruce. A child in a program can speak to any of the staff members, write a letter home or talk to their parents on their weekly phone call, they could run away and talk to someone in town. The process of communication that you posted here clearly shows the child is not totally restricted and has options to report.
If you build a scenario where the child is completely restricted then, sure, they cannot report abuse. But from my experience and from reading here on fornits kids have plenty of options to report abuse. I am sure there are exceptions like the time kids are placed into the hobbit etc. but this is the exception from what I have read here and these places have been shut down.
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If the child is completely restricted then a child cannot report it.
That's a BINGO!!!! A child who is abused in his program and is further abused by restricted communication cannot report the abuse.
This would be a accurate assessment of, "no communication" if in fact RCS was doing this.
Say if for example the child was placed in isolation.
Happens quite frequently. I myself was thrown out in the woods for almost a month for beating up a staff member. Another favorite tactic is to simply lock the kid up in an isolation room indefinitly. In either situation the child has no means to report or communicate any abuse to their parents.
There is nothing in the annals of HLA history to confirm this incident took place, please identify the staff member you beat up, please. Where out back were you placed to live for a month.
But if the child has access to other staff then the child can speak with them and report it through their internal reporting process.
What internal reporting process? Do you have some information on this policy? Are children in the programs made aware of it upon arrival? I sure as hell was never told about one, and I've never heard another former inmate mention one. I don't think I've ever even seen a posting on here about one. What I have heard and seen repeatedly is abusive staff either not reprimanded at all, or let go temporarily only to be rehired a short time later.
You don't have to be told, when you are being abused as discreetly as the staff do it (your words) then it is instinctual the person/resident/student goes to another authority figure to report, very few (a infinitesimal amount)of kids just sit with it.
Given that the normal response given to a child reporting abuse to another staff member is, "Stop manipulating." this would seem to be a fairly useless option.
This is a very dangerous and irresponsible comment to make. What Robert is assuming is all staff are abusive and we here know that is not true. Staff do not tolerate abusive measures from other staff, there is a individual moral compass in every person.
The child could write a letter or talk about it to their parents.
We're talking about a scenario in which a child is placed in a program where communication is restricted. Writing a letter isn't going to do any good since all letters are screened, and any letter detailing abuse is going to be trashed. If the child is allowed to call their parents for 15 minutes a week a counselor sits right next to the phone with their finger on the button. Any attemps by the child to communicate they are being abused and the call is terminated. So no luck there.
The calls are not terminated while the parent is on the phone as Robert is describing. Letters do get home because if they did not parents would be asking why. Many kids do not even write home anyway, they wait to call.
If the program is not too isolated the child could walk to a nearby business and telephone someone.
Assuming the program isnt too isolated, the child can attempt to run away. If they're seen making the attempt a "take down" is performed which involves tackling the child to the ground and placing them in some form of hold until the child can be returned. Upon returning to the program the child is immediately either placed in isolation, or sent away indefinitely.
Child is placed apart from the other students, yes. Please tell us where they are sent away indefinitely, Robert.
If the child is able to successfully run away without being caught he has to first convince either a business owner to allow the use of his telephone, or make it to the police. At HLA we were actually warned about the first option. We were told by the headmaster that any attempts to get help from the locals would result in a gun being pointed at our face.
Please tell us who was the headmaster that told you, "a gun would be pointed in your face". Roberts knowledge of the locals surrounding HLA is nonsense and irresponsible.
Does that strike you as using fear tactics or being manipulative?
The second option involves convincing the police to believe you and not simply take you right back to the program where you will of course be isolated. If you are able to use the phone at the police department you still have to hope they wont return you to the program, and the only way that will happen is if your injuries are severe. Of course if your injuries are that severe chances are you weren't able to make to the police station to begin with.
Robert, once again you are being irresponsible and reckless with your words. They have a duty to call the parents of the child making the claims of abuse. The child is underage. Georgia police take this responsibility seriously.
Please tell us when the police ever have taken a child of HLA right back to the program without the child first talking with there parents. I would appreciate you showing documentation of this, to all of us here.
So it appears as if the child who is abused and is restricted in his communication really doesnt have any good option in order to report the abuse. Once again proving that this policy fosters an unsafe environment and is abusive.
Robert, you have not proven anything as far as what happens to the general population, in fact you can not even show with clarity what happened to you.
Abuses happened at HLA, no one doubts that but embellishing does not help your cause.
Stick with the facts.
Listen I am a ex-resident, so bs's will not work.
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RB, you say it is firmly established that RCS has the same policy, procedures and is allegedly abusive. Yet you cite nothing to confirm these accusations.
You mean the post from RC's website posted several days ago and reposted several time by both Whooter John and myself? You mean I should cite that policy Danny? It really would be best if you just held your questions for later.
When did we conclusively determine that was from RCS, is this something you determined on your own.
Is this the procedure, you were explaining to me in another post, that you used to allegedly shut down HLA.
Explain to me why someone would use HLA's communication policy to shut their program down.
Wow, why do you act like this. I can understand you did not like your alleged time in HLA, OK.
Robert what do you hope to accomplish with undocumented information and allegations you can not account for.
Which allegations son, be specific now.
The people in charge at RCS are not going to implode as Buchi did, so good luck. They are professionals.
Everyone wanted Buchi gone as they did Richard Darrington.
Buch is still very much around and involved RC. Richard Darrington does not work at RC nor did he work at HLA. I have no idea why you're bringing him up in this conversation. You only further highlight your ignorance on the subject.
Buchi, has squat to say about anything at RCS. If you do not know why I keep bringing up Richard Darrington, the you are more ignorant then I originally thought.
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Danny these are all great questions. I'm glad to see you finally attempting to participate in a grown ups conversation.
Here's what I'm going to do. Several of your questions pertain to my specific time in HLA, so I'm going to answer those in your thread on OFFA. The others that are about this specific disucssion I'll answer here. I feel that this is a good topic and I don't want to see it bogged down by the usual nonsense.
Now I've got some errands to run, but when I get back we'll get right to it. So you just sit tight, and maybe watch your favorite movie 'Triumph of the Will '. See you soon son.
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Any of your comments that are not addressed here you will find in the Are you Serious thread in the OFFA.
When did we conclusively determine that was from RCS, is this something you determined on your own.
You're more than welcome to travel over to the RC website and view the original source for yourself. It's under their FAQ section.
Buchi, has squat to say about anything at RCS. If you do not know why I keep bringing up Richard Darrington, the you are more ignorant then I originally thought.
Buchi is listed as both the founder and as one of the clinical therapist on staff. Again your claims of insider status at RC have yet to be supported, or even expanded upon. Richard Darrington still has nothing to do with RC. If you'd like to counter this claim, by all means.
Now you somehow missed my challenge to back up your accusation of my allegations you claim I cannot account for. Let me know when you get to that son. You also failed to address your claims about how the restrictive communication policy was somehow used in the closure of HLA.
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This would be a accurate assessment of, "no communication" if in fact RCS was doing this.
You are incorrect. No one has claimed no communication is permitted. What has been claimed is that communication is restricted, which is true. Learn the difference son.
There is nothing in the annals of HLA history to confirm this incident took place
The annals of HLA history? :roflmao: I'm not sure which is more ridiculous, that you believe such a book even exists, or the fact even if it did exist that you of all people would have access to it.
Danny it did very much occur, but whatsmore, I am by no means the only inmate to have ever gotten into a fist fight with a staff member at HLA. There were many both before and after me who did the same. Again, you only highlight your ignornace with comments like these.
You don't have to be told, when you are being abused as discreetly as the staff do it (your words) then it is instinctual the person/resident/student goes to another authority figure to report, very few (a infinitesimal amount)of kids just sit with it.
Kids learn quickly, when the authority figures either don't care, or don't listen there isn't much point in talking to them about things like that. Especially when all that will happen is the kid in question will be retailiated against by the staff in question. It happened there all the time. Again Danny, I was there, you were not. My testimony carries more weight than yours.
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This is a very dangerous and irresponsible comment to make. What Robert is assuming is all staff are abusive and we here know that is not true. Staff do not tolerate abusive measures from other staff, there is a individual moral compass in every person.
I can tell you unequivocally that of all the staff there during my incarceration there were maybe 2 or 3 of the staff ('counselors' and above) that seemed to genuinely care about the wellbeing of the kids. Most of the ones who did actually care about the kids and tried to help us were either fired or quit.
The calls are not terminated while the parent is on the phone as Robert is describing.
Yes they are. Again, I was there you were not. I'm right you're wrong. Even if that weren't enough ( it is ) the policy posted from RC's website makes reference to the policy.
calls will last 15 minutes and will be supervised by one of the student's counselors to ensure the student is respectful and appropriate.
Guess what happens if the 'counselor' feels the inmate is being disrespectful or inappropriate?
Letters do get home because if they did not parents would be asking why.
Again, you aren't paying attention. No one has claimed letters don't go out. The fact that's been made clear is that letters are prescreened and censored and must be approved before being mailed out.
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Again, you aren't paying attention. No one has claimed letters don't go out. The fact that's been made clear is that letters are prescreened and censored and must be approved before being mailed out.
Actually they need the parents permission to screen the childs letters. The parents need to sign a waiver indicating that their letters will be screened (incoming and outgoing).
At this point there is no evidence that RC has parents sign this waiver.
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Many kids do not even write home anyway, they wait to call.
Read the policy again son. It's no different now then it was when I was locked up. Kids cannot make or receive calls non confrence calls until they've sent out at least two letters, and received one back.
Child is placed apart from the other students, yes. Please tell us where they are sent away indefinitely, Robert.
Devil's Kitchen mostly. Although there are some locations along the trail they were sent to.
Please tell us who was the headmaster that told you, "a gun would be pointed in your face".
Greg Lindsay.
Roberts knowledge of the locals surrounding HLA is nonsense and irresponsible.
Still a bunch of inbred incestous hillbilly's? Sounds like not much has changed.
Robert, once again you are being irresponsible and reckless with your words. They have a duty to call the parents of the child making the claims of abuse. The child is underage. Georgia police take this responsibility seriously.
Please tell us when the police ever have taken a child of HLA right back to the program without the child first talking with there parents. I would appreciate you showing documentation of this, to all of us here.
Why would I, or anyone else for that matter have access to internal police documents pertaining to another child runningaway and claiming abuse? That makes absolute zero sense. Think your questions out before you ask them son. As it stands in my year long incarceration I wittnessed probably a dozen different runaway attempts. They were all caught by the police and then magically brought back to HLA. Again, I was there, you were not.
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Again, you aren't paying attention. No one has claimed letters don't go out. The fact that's been made clear is that letters are prescreened and censored and must be approved before being mailed out.
Actually they need the parents permission to screen the childs letters. The parents need to sign a waiver indicating that their letters will be screened (incoming and outgoing).
At this point there is no evidence that RC has parents sign this waiver.
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I don't know if my parents ever signed a waiver, but I do know that all letters incoming and outgoing were screened at HLA. As it stands however there actually is evidence to suggest this still occurs at RC.
You may email your child or send letters/cards through conventional mail. Your child's Primary and Element therapists will distribute this mail to ensure this mail is truly from parents. However, the therapist does not read the mail so privacy is ensured
Maybe you can explain how it is they are supposed to verify the mail is from the parents without screening it first. This is a thinly veiled notification that translates to "We read your kids mail."
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Robert, you have not proven anything as far as what happens to the general population, in fact you can not even show with clarity what happened to you.
Abuses happened at HLA, no one doubts that but embellishing does not help your cause.
Stick with the facts.
Listen I am a ex-resident, so bs's will not work.
Given the fact that the policy I described from 14 years ago is identical to the current policy, and given that other people have made the exact same claims, I would say proof has been established, even if you aren't bright enough to catch it.
You have yet to show a single instance of what you believe I have exaggerated. I'm still waiting son.
You were a resident at Elan, not HLA. You really have no frame of refernce in which to comment on the program.
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Again, you aren't paying attention. No one has claimed letters don't go out. The fact that's been made clear is that letters are prescreened and censored and must be approved before being mailed out.
Actually they need the parents permission to screen the childs letters. The parents need to sign a waiver indicating that their letters will be screened (incoming and outgoing).
At this point there is no evidence that RC has parents sign this waiver.
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I don't know if my parents ever signed a waiver, but I do know that all letters incoming and outgoing were screened at HLA. As it stands however there actually is evidence to suggest this still occurs at RC.
We havent seen this evidence on the forum yet. I have seen the procedure for communication at RC which isnt restrictive or abusive in my opinion. I have not seen evidence that they screen any of the communication between parent and child. RC is open to telling us that they have a staff member listen in on the students calls for the first 3 weeks only. So it is laid out fairly clearly.
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I can't even wade thru trying to respond to that. I really wish you'd learn to use the quote feature Danny. It's not that hard.
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I can't even wade thru trying to respond to that. I really wish you'd learn to use the quote feature Danny. It's not that hard.
Well then don't worry about it. Robert and I are yaking. You don't have to wade through every post do ya.
Hey, how about this, go start a thread yourself.
Happy trails.
Unfortunately, I feel a responsibility to the reader to let them know the other side. It really is an effort to wade thru trying to respond to your posts. I have to open two windows just to be able to grab your quotes because you either can't or won't learn how to use the quote feature. Is it really that hard? Hell, I'm nowhere near a 'geek', but I learned for the sake of others.
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I can't even wade thru trying to respond to that. I really wish you'd learn to use the quote feature Danny. It's not that hard.
Well then don't worry about it. Robert and I are yaking. You don't have to wade through every post do ya.
Hey, how about this, go start a thread yourself.
Happy trails.
Unfortunately, I feel a responsibility to the reader to let them know the other side. It really is an effort to wade thru trying to respond to your posts. I have to open two windows just to be able to grab your quotes because you either can't or won't learn how to use the quote feature. Is it really that hard? Hell, I'm nowhere near a 'geek', but I learned for the sake of others.
Off topic for a second, Anne please do me a favor, leave these comments to yourself. Thanks.
Back on topic, Robert and I can handle the readers on this subject.
@ Danny B II: The only thing you're capable of handling is what's dangling between your legs, and you're probably quite good at it, considering what total jerk off you are!
Back on topic:
Many, Many programs abuse kids. Yes, in fact: Way to Many programs abuse kids,
and therein lies the problem. The abuse that goes on in these programs is not isolated,
nor is this abuse confined to a handful of programs & the individuals who run them.
Program abuse is systemic & widespread throughout the "troubled teen" industry. In fact
being abusive, negligent, & defrauding the client (parents) seem to be the only real pre-requisites for forming a "successful" program. Want proof? Look up Cedu, Straight,
Elan, WWasp, HLA, etcetera - and see how many times they've been investigated and/or
sued for those exact 3 things (abuse, negligence, & fraud)!
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Just you and the other Nazi still remaining here, how can we get you two to follow your buddy SukitMax? Do you feel any shame at all when the programs you advocate for so strongly destroy so much potential and so many young lives that haven't even started yet? Or is it all just concert tickets to you?
Shady calling me a Nazi, when we have Jewish people who post on this site and the fact my wife is Jewish, I find both vulgar and racist, therefore you are attacking me and I don't like it, please refrain from being a bigot. I am sure we have rules covering this disgusting behavior.
Listen I am not calling you names nor getting all crazy because I don't like what you are saying.
Well guess what Danny B II ? The founder & owner of my program hellhole (Cedu) was also
Jewish. His name was Mel Wasserman - and you know what, I hate that motherfucker as
much as I do any Nazi, and as far as I'm concerned: Mel Wasserman was a fucking Nazi!
There's no bigotry or racism behind that comment - just the fact that Mel's success depended
on making other people miserable - Just like the Nazis.
In my mind, the fact that you're sooo supportive of people like Mel Wasserman makes you a fucking Nazi too Danny. There's nothing bigotted about saying that. The term "Nazi" is not
a racial slur. And even if it was a racial slur, logic dictates that calling someone a Nazi would imply bigotry against Germans, Austrians, Croatians, Finns, Albanians, Bulgarians, Hungarians, Bosnian Muslims (y'know, people who actually embraced Nazism during WWII), but certainly NOT Jews. Sadly, plenty of derogatory words exist to defame Jews - I won't repeat them here (because I despise such words), but if someone truly wanted to demonstrate racism against Jews, then they could do it far more effectively by using one those slurs instead of calling them a "Nazi".
The bottom line is: If you act like a Nazi, then expect that someone will call you a Nazi. Do you get it now Danny?
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Just you and the other Nazi still remaining here, how can we get you two to follow your buddy SukitMax? Do you feel any shame at all when the programs you advocate for so strongly destroy so much potential and so many young lives that haven't even started yet? Or is it all just concert tickets to you?
Shady calling me a Nazi, when we have Jewish people who post on this site and the fact my wife is Jewish, I find both vulgar and racist, therefore you are attacking me and I don't like it, please refrain from being a bigot. I am sure we have rules covering this disgusting behavior.
Listen I am not calling you names nor getting all crazy because I don't like what you are saying.
Well guess what Danny B II ? The founder & owner of my program hellhole (Cedu) was also
Jewish. His name was Mel Wasserman - and you know what, I hate that motherfucker as
much as I do any Nazi, and as far as I'm concerned: Mel Wasserman was a fucking Nazi!
There's no bigotry or racism behind that comment - just the fact that Mel's success depended
on making other people miserable - Just like the Nazis.
In my mind, the fact that you're sooo supportive of people like Mel Wasserman makes you a fucking Nazi too Danny. There's nothing bigotted about saying that. The term "Nazi" is not
a racial slur. And even if it was a racial slur, logic dictates that calling someone a Nazi would imply bigotry against Germans, Austrians, Croatians, Finns, Albanians, Bulgarians, Hungarians, Bosnian Muslims (y'know, people who actually embraced Nazism during WWII), but certainly NOT Jews. Sadly, plenty of derogatory words exist to defame Jews - I won't repeat them here (because I despise such words), but if someone truly wanted to demonstrate racism against Jews, then they could do it far more effectively by using one those slurs instead of calling them a "Nazi".
The bottom line is: If you act like a Nazi, then expect that someone will call you a Nazi. Do you get it now Danny?
It was meant as a racial slur, that was inferred. I don't like it and it is not necessary. I don't care what or who Mel Wasserman is or did, that conversation has nothing to do with this one. Plus I do not need you to give me a history lesson on anything, thank you.
I made a request and asked for respect. Please acknowledge that.
Danny, how in the world could you expect anyone here to respect you - when you've done nothing but disrespect others on these forums? YOU ARE A FUCKING NAZI DANNY! So deal
with it! :twofinger:
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SOS wrote:
Danny, how in the world could you expect anyone here to respect you - when you've done nothing but disrespect others on these forums? YOU ARE A FUCKING NAZI DANNY! So deal
with it!
So you interpret disagreeing with people and calling their integrity into question being disrespectful. What I should do is just accept what everyone is saying as gold because they are survivors, then I am being respectful.
I have asked you twice now not to call me that, can you respect that.
Like I said Nazi - I don't respect you at all. Does that answer your question?
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So you interpret disagreeing with people and calling their integrity into question being disrespectful. What I should do is just accept what everyone is saying as gold because they are survivors, then I am being respectful.
From what I've noticed about you Nazi boy, you label everyone who disagrees with you as liars, plagurists, bigots, predjudiced, as having no integrity, and other such nonsense. It's fine to disagree with others, but you have to take it a step further and make derogatory statements about their character - and that IS DISRESPECTFUL. That's also a clear sign that you have no confidence in your own ability to win your arguements factually, logically, and rationally - hence you resort to personal attacks. Well guess what, I think that makes you a fucking NAZI Danny B II, and I don't respect you. Get it?
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So you interpret disagreeing with people and calling their integrity into question being disrespectful. What I should do is just accept what everyone is saying as gold because they are survivors, then I am being respectful.
From what I've noticed about you Nazi boy, you label everyone who disagrees with you as liars, plagurists, bigots, predjudiced, as having no integrity, and other such nonsense.
BINGO!!!!!
And I seriously think it has something to do with all this guru chasing. Should anyone dare question any of the apparent multitude of wannabe gurus or programs (be it the TTI/Stepcraft/LGATs/New Warrior Training) that they follow, these clowns go ballistic because it threatens their very world view, which has been given to them by these wannabe gurus. Circular thinking is circular.
The whole thing is abusive. That's why the core of programs that use these methods (which appears to be most of them, in some form or another) is abusive in and of itself......not just 'isolated incidents' or 'over-zealous staff' or whatever other excuse they come up with. The very nature of LGATs etc is abusive, therefore programs that use LGATs and the like are abusive.
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Anne, did :shamrock: Li'l sidekick :shamrock: actually do this New Warriors Training (http://http://www.bloggernews.net/111775)? :shamrock: Li'l sidekick :shamrock: gets freaky-deaky.
-Blindfolded walking tours in the nude;
-People blowing sage smoke in his face while 50 or so naked men danced around candles;
-Men sitting naked in a circle discussing their sexual histories while passing a wooden dildo called “The Cock”;
-Naked men beating cooked chickens with a hammer.
Hey, pass me The Cock and that chicken, will ya?
:eek: :nods:
"New Warriors Training"...Oh, :shamrock: Li'l sidekick :shamrock: you have some strange beliefs.
They were all in the sweat lodge on Sunday,” she says, “which he actually enjoyed. It was the first moment he had to relax in days after going through such a high-drama weekend where they pound you to reveal your deep, dark stuff. So, everyone was sitting Indian-style in a big circle in the lodge when the man leading the group said, ‘If you wish, you may reach over and grab your brother’s dick. If your brother doesn’t want your hand there, he can remove it.’ Well, my husband told me he just froze. And from that point on, he just wanted out.
Whoa.
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...did :shamrock: Li'l sidekick :shamrock: actually do this New Warriors Training (http://http://www.bloggernews.net/111775)?
Ah... It seems you've missed the premiere. No worries, that celebration is still ongoing. It all started right about here (or perhaps a lil earlier), in the LGATs/Encounter groups/Confrontational "therapy" (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30686) thread:
Originally posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30686&start=30#p367110) on 17 Jun 2010:
Well if the kids are supposedly (mistakenly believed to be) troubled teens then I feel they should only be exposed to an LGAT at their own choosing. The kids in programs (who are troubled teens) are exposed to some of the nuances of LGAT on a watered down level. I dont see this as being detrimental to them at all.
I wouldn't exactly call it "watered down;" I'd call it ramped up. Unlike your standard LGAT which could be a weekend, or a series of weekends, or an 8-day shebang day-in/day-out like the Hoffman Quadrinity Process (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=26801), kids are in program for much longer periods of time.
Ursus think about this for a minute, have we not been introduced to LGAT's since puberty in some way or another. Boy Scouts Initiation weekend, Pop Warner Football first weekend workouts, High Schools sports first weekend workouts, the military, Mankind Weekend Workshop, Man Warrior Week Workshop, Self-Help
Experiential Weekends and AA Weekend Conferences. Elan had Marathon LGAT/Groups that I felt were very beneficial in uncovering alot of the shit I had to endure as a child, not all the staff and methods were detrimental to me or others.
Why do you feel compelled to swipe this large brush of yours across the entire landscape and call it abusive, I believe it depends on the education and integrity of the person/persons conducting the experiential exercise.
Last question Ursus are you saying that children today that are in programs are experiencing a LGAT non-stop, 24/7. I have read your opinion of LGAT's and wondered if this is really what your alluding to. Because then I would have to agree that under those circumstances a child's mental and emotional stability would be in question.
Well... the Mankind Project (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=24677&p=308485#p308485) along with its "instructional tool" the New Warrior Training Adventure is an LGAT. Mankind Project evolved out of Sterling Seminars, which in turn evolved out of EST. Of course, there are other influences woven in as well, but the EST lineage is quite recognizable.
A surprising number of Hyde faculty and alumni parents seem drawn to this organization. I guess it's not really so "surprising"... Although I never took EST, I was told by someone who did ... that it was just like Hyde School, albeit for a shorter period of time! :D
For a tale of just how damaging the New Warrior Training Adventure can be, read Chris Vogel's article "Naked Men: The ManKind Project and Michael Scinto (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23476&p=288277#p288277)" (Houston Press News; October 4, 2007).
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It continued onwards in the aftermath from that post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30686&start=30#p367110) in that thread, and also bled over into the HAPA -- an LGAT (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=24677) thread in the Hyde Schools forum, a coupla days before this very telling post:
Originally posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=24677&start=60#p367876) on 25 Jun 2010:
Ursus, wherever you get your information to satisfy your arguments is anyone's guess. I received some information the other day concerning Ursus, which was interesting and come to find out Ursus did attend a Warrior Workshop, found it to be offensive and left. It appears that the posting he has provided are of the workshop he attended, no where else has anyone heard of males fondling other males. Bravo you pervert, thanks for one more jaded post.
What happened Ursus, you went looking for a boyfriend and you got your ass kicked for fondling somebody, you became confused when they said hold hands, in the circle.
Listen I don't know about anyone else here but your attempts at investigation are rather amateurish and well (stupid) really. You are a clown, Ursus. Your posts are so clearly biased, why do you even write/paste them. Have you ever had a balanced thought??????
I did the weekend that is already on the record, I have had nothing more to do with the ManKind Corp. after that weekend other then to talk with other men who attended. They have follow up groups you can attend after, I chose to not attend. In twenty years I have never heard of anyone fondling another participant in circle, ever.
Thank-you Ursus
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Oh my goodness. It seems :shamrock: Li'l sidekick :shamrock: has been fully immersed in the NWT culture. I always suspected :shamrock: Li'l sidekick :shamrock: was a naughty little warrior!
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Oh my goodness. It seems :shamrock: Li'l sidekick :shamrock: has been fully immersed in the NWT culture. I always suspected :shamrock: Li'l sidekick :shamrock: was a naughty little warrior!
When you really start reading up on that shit, you find out how similar it is to the way programs work. You also find out what an asshole this Ray guy is. You also get some pretty amusing reading out of it, cuz this shit is pretty whacked. They're, apparently, very angry at "the wimmen steelin' our masculeeneeteee".
Ursus....you got the link handy for the guy in the UK that went thru it?
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When you really start reading up on that shit, you find out how similar it is to the way programs work. You also find out what an asshole this Ray guy is.
Yep. Thanks for reminding me. This subject also comes up in the aparently, adults want to go to programs too (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28923) thread, which is about the tragic incidents (including deaths) which occurred during James Ray's "Spiritual Warrior" retreat last year.
Here Danny discusses other experiential workshops he admires or has attended:
Originally posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28923&start=15#p367452) on 20 Jun 2010:
Perhaps the most important piece of etiquette is gratitude. It is important to be thankful to the purpose of the sweat, the people joining you in the lodge, and those helping to support the sweat lodge.
The going "gratitude" for James Arthur Ray's "Spiritual Warrior" retreat, which was supposed to "absolutely change your life," and of which this sweat experience was part of, was roughly $9000. I believe that sums up to a gross of well over half a million $$$.
You need to consider the guys expenses before judging him. Although they are paying $9,000 a piece, you need to consider that the program lasts for several days at a time and they have to feed and lodge these 70 or so people. So Mr. Ray is kept very busy unless he hires help, which doesn’t come cheap. Say 10 people, to help out, at $15/hour, 10 hours a day for 3 days. That’s $4,500 he needs to pay his employees in salary for the 3 days. Say $5 dollars per meal @ 3 meals per day.. that totals $3,100 (maybe $10/meal thats $6,200) for the 3 days. The sweat lodge must cost a few hundred dollars a month to maintain. He probably donates a few thousand to local charities every summer.. sponsors a kids baseball team, donations to the local police drive, picks up the tab for a big part of the local town mayors campaign expenses, which can be overwhelming for a small town mayor who has to work a second job to keep things going with 2 kids facing college.
So he grosses $630,000 for a 3 day weekend and pays out about $10,000 in expenses. He doesn’t have to work every weekend during the year to make a decent living.
You really cant get too pissed at Mr. Ray because if you really think about it after a few years it must get pretty tiresome sitting in a hot sweaty tent with 70 people (weekend after weekend) trying to find themselves when you have an air conditioned villa in the Bahamas waiting for you on Tuesday night. Who the hell would want to sit in a sweat lodge with these people once the checks cleared?
Dag'gum Whootie, smacks of American capitalism.
Anthony Robbins made a fortune in Bali and no I never attended.
Teminos Inc. out of San Francisco runs a 4 day workshop at $2500.00 a head, 200 people attend, 3 staff/owners administer and the other 30 are non-tendered past attendees. The net $500,000.00. Four days worth of work, 3 staff/owners split after expenses $425,000.00, thats $141,666.66 each. "They Get Paid".
Cherly, Joy and Eric actually run one of the best experiential workshops I've ever attended, though I did not have to pay.
I don't think I would give any company that runs experiential workshops $2500.00 for a weekend. Just sounds crazy to me.
danny
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It continued onwards in the aftermath from that post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30686&start=30#p367110) in that thread, and also bled over into the HAPA -- an LGAT (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=24677) thread in the Hyde Schools forum, a coupla days before this very telling post:
Originally posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=24677&start=60#p367876) on 25 Jun 2010:
Ursus, wherever you get your information to satisfy your arguments is anyone's guess. I received some information the other day concerning Ursus, which was interesting and come to find out Ursus did attend a Warrior Workshop, found it to be offensive and left. It appears that the posting he has provided are of the workshop he attended, no where else has anyone heard of males fondling other males. Bravo you pervert, thanks for one more jaded post.
What happened Ursus, you went looking for a boyfriend and you got your ass kicked for fondling somebody, you became confused when they said hold hands, in the circle.
Listen I don't know about anyone else here but your attempts at investigation are rather amateurish and well (stupid) really. You are a clown, Ursus. Your posts are so clearly biased, why do you even write/paste them. Have you ever had a balanced thought??????
I did the weekend that is already on the record, I have had nothing more to do with the ManKind Corp. after that weekend other then to talk with other men who attended. They have follow up groups you can attend after, I chose to not attend. In twenty years I have never heard of anyone fondling another participant in circle, ever.
Thank-you Ursus
What is it with him and threats? Veiled or outright, physical or "inside info" crap?? ::)
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When you really start reading up on that shit, you find out how similar it is to the way programs work. You also find out what an asshole this Ray guy is. You also get some pretty amusing reading out of it, cuz this shit is pretty whacked. They're, apparently, very angry at "the wimmen steelin' our masculeeneeteee".
Ursus....you got the link handy for the guy in the UK that went thru it?
:D This one?
My (very) weird weekend with the naked woodland warriors who travel to remote England to 'reclaim their masculinity' (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=24677&start=105#p378746)
By Tom Mitchelson
Last updated at 1:53 AM on 13th March 2010[/list][/list]
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When you really start reading up on that shit, you find out how similar it is to the way programs work. You also find out what an asshole this Ray guy is. You also get some pretty amusing reading out of it, cuz this shit is pretty whacked. They're, apparently, very angry at "the wimmen steelin' our masculeeneeteee".
Ursus....you got the link handy for the guy in the UK that went thru it?
:D This one?
My (very) weird weekend with the naked woodland warriors who travel to remote England to 'reclaim their masculinity' (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=24677&start=105#p378746)
By Tom Mitchelson
Last updated at 1:53 AM on 13th March 2010[/list][/list]
:seg: That's the one!! I love that guy's take on it. :rofl:
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When you really start reading up on that shit, you find out how similar it is to the way programs work. You also find out what an asshole this Ray guy is. You also get some pretty amusing reading out of it, cuz this shit is pretty whacked. They're, apparently, very angry at "the wimmen steelin' our masculeeneeteee".
Ursus....you got the link handy for the guy in the UK that went thru it?
:D This one?
My (very) weird weekend with the naked woodland warriors who travel to remote England to 'reclaim their masculinity' (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=24677&start=105#p378746)
By Tom Mitchelson
Last updated at 1:53 AM on 13th March 2010[/list][/list]
:seg: That's the one!! I love that guy's take on it. :rofl:
Thats funny, he is a very good writer and can tell it is a little tongue-in-cheek at times. He had fun with it.
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Danny you crazy drunken nazi you.
You seem to misunderstand something, so let me dumb it down for you.
I view you to be nothing more than a drunken child abusing clown. I humor you because it serves a purpose. The more you bloviate the more you expose the types of people that support this industry. All you are is some over weight slob who runs from one argument to the next making nonsensical ramblings about nothing. You can't actually refute any arguments or question put to you. You're only response seems to be "Nuh uh". You have yet to ever disprove a claim made, or back up a single one of your useless comments.
You want to have this conversation with me? Fine. It will be held on my terms, not yours. I'm only playing this game with you because in the end I know I can back up my claims, and I can prove you wrong. You have nothing on me, and you can't back up a thing. Every claim that you were stupid enough to believe Whooter John on has been wrong. You are going to walk away with egg on your face trying to pretend this whole business never happened. I tried playing nice with you, but you're too set on imagining yourself as some bully to even understand that you don't intimidate anyone. Virtually every poster on here is smarter than you. Everyone.
So ask your questions and answer mine. Just remember I've seen this episode before, I know how it ends. If you're suddenly afraid, there's no shame in walking away tail tucked between your legs.
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Addiction counseling is a kind of mental health treatment that focuses on helping a patient overcome a psychological dependence, compulsion or obsession. It also aims to understand the process of addiction and its impact on the patient, their family, and society. In acute cases of addiction, counseling is often done in conjunction with medical treatments and other forms of therapy.
Addiction Counselling (http://http://www.aticounselling.ie/)
Depression Counselling (http://http://www.aticounselling.ie/about.php) :rasta:
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Danny you crazy drunken nazi you.
You seem to misunderstand something, so let me dumb it down for you.
I view you to be nothing more than a drunken child abusing clown. I humor you because it serves a purpose. The more you bloviate the more you expose the types of people that support this industry. All you are is some over weight slob who runs from one argument to the next making nonsensical ramblings about nothing. You can't actually refute any arguments or question put to you. You're only response seems to be "Nuh uh". You have yet to ever disprove a claim made, or back up a single one of your useless comments.
You want to have this conversation with me? Fine. It will be held on my terms, not yours. I'm only playing this game with you because in the end I know I can back up my claims, and I can prove you wrong. You have nothing on me, and you can't back up a thing. Every claim that you were stupid enough to believe Whooter John on has been wrong. You are going to walk away with egg on your face trying to pretend this whole business never happened. I tried playing nice with you, but you're too set on imagining yourself as some bully to even understand that you don't intimidate anyone. Virtually every poster on here is smarter than you. Everyone.
So ask your questions and answer mine. Just remember I've seen this episode before, I know how it ends. If you're suddenly afraid, there's no shame in walking away tail tucked between your legs.
Bruce, why do you continuously have to attack people for their opinions on this forum? You are trying to bully people, again, into believing or saying what you want them to say. You tried this several times with me and each time you failed and only managed to derail the conversation. We established early on that you have a tendency to exaggerate your stories and length of time spent in HLA so we tend to ask for more detail from you to establish the level of credibility in your stories. Dont take it personally, just try to stay on topic and answer the questions the best you can.
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I can't understand why Whooter concerns himself with others' "credibility" when Whooter made up his entire family story including inventing his children. Whooter should be concerned about his own credibility, which is nil.
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Anne Bonney wrote:
When you really start reading up on that shit, you find out how similar it is to the way programs work. You also find out what an asshole this Ray guy is.
Ursus wrote:
Yep. Thanks for reminding me. This subject also comes up in the aparently, adults want to go to programs too (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28923) thread, which is about the tragic incidents (including deaths) which occurred during James Ray's "Spiritual Warrior" retreat last year.
Here Danny discusses other experiential workshops he admires or has attended:
Originally posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28923&start=15#p367452) on 20 Jun 2010:
Whooter wrote:[/u]
Perhaps the most important piece of etiquette is gratitude. It is important to be thankful to the purpose of the sweat, the people joining you in the lodge, and those helping to support the sweat lodge.
Ursus wrote:
The going "gratitude" for James Arthur Ray's "Spiritual Warrior" retreat, which was supposed to "absolutely change your life," and of which this sweat experience was part of, was roughly $9000. I believe that sums up to a gross of well over half a million $$$.
Whooter wrote:[/u]
You need to consider the guys expenses before judging him. Although they are paying $9,000 a piece, you need to consider that the program lasts for several days at a time and they have to feed and lodge these 70 or so people. So Mr. Ray is kept very busy unless he hires help, which doesn’t come cheap. Say 10 people, to help out, at $15/hour, 10 hours a day for 3 days. That’s $4,500 he needs to pay his employees in salary for the 3 days. Say $5 dollars per meal @ 3 meals per day.. that totals $3,100 (maybe $10/meal thats $6,200) for the 3 days. The sweat lodge must cost a few hundred dollars a month to maintain. He probably donates a few thousand to local charities every summer.. sponsors a kids baseball team, donations to the local police drive, picks up the tab for a big part of the local town mayors campaign expenses, which can be overwhelming for a small town mayor who has to work a second job to keep things going with 2 kids facing college.
So he grosses $630,000 for a 3 day weekend and pays out about $10,000 in expenses. He doesn’t have to work every weekend during the year to make a decent living.
You really cant get too pissed at Mr. Ray because if you really think about it after a few years it must get pretty tiresome sitting in a hot sweaty tent with 70 people (weekend after weekend) trying to find themselves when you have an air conditioned villa in the Bahamas waiting for you on Tuesday night. Who the hell would want to sit in a sweat lodge with these people once the checks cleared?
Danny wrote:[/u]
Dag'gum Whootie, smacks of American capitalism.
Anthony Robbins made a fortune in Bali and no I never attended.
Teminos Inc. out of San Francisco runs a 4 day workshop at $2500.00 a head, 200 people attend, 3 staff/owners administer and the other 30 are non-tendered past attendees. The net $500,000.00. Four days worth of work, 3 staff/owners split after expenses $425,000.00, thats $141,666.66 each. "They Get Paid".
Cherly, Joy and Eric actually run one of the best experiential workshops I've ever attended, though I did not have to pay.
I don't think I would give any company that runs experiential workshops $2500.00 for a weekend. Just sounds crazy to me.
Jeesh, if you read Ursus posts you would think I should be ashamed of my experiences of workshops, hell freaking no. I support many workshops 100%.
Yeah, we know. It's very telling. Programs, Stepcraft, LGATs, Guru chasing......most of us had had enough of thought reform bullshit by the time we'd left our respective programs, or at least found our way out of them within a decade. Then there are people like you who just can't seem to get enough of it and chase after the latest "self help fad" and wannabe guru. It's really weird. :eek:
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I can't understand why Whooter concerns himself with others' "credibility" when Whooter made up his entire family story including inventing his children. Whooter should be concerned about his own credibility, which is nil.
I am mainly concerned because of people like yourself who (self admittedly) embellish their stories to the point where it is difficult to separate what is true and what is placed in the story to gain attention.
Sometimes its difficult to separate the two.
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I can't understand why Whooter concerns himself with others' "credibility" when Whooter made up his entire family story including inventing his children. Whooter should be concerned about his own credibility, which is nil.
I am mainly concerned because of people like yourself who (self admittedly) embellish their stories to the point where it is difficult to separate what is true and what is placed in the story to gain attention.
Sometimes its difficult to separate the two.
So, the end justifies the mean, right? ::)
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I can't understand why Whooter concerns himself with others' "credibility" when Whooter made up his entire family story including inventing his children. Whooter should be concerned about his own credibility, which is nil.
I am mainly concerned because of people like yourself who (self admittedly) embellish their stories to the point where it is difficult to separate what is true and what is placed in the story to gain attention.
Sometimes its difficult to separate the two.
So, the end justifies the mean, right? ::)
Well, he may take that point of view, but I think he lies to gain attention for himself.
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I can't understand why Whooter concerns himself with others' "credibility" when Whooter made up his entire family story including inventing his children. Whooter should be concerned about his own credibility, which is nil.
I am mainly concerned because of people like yourself who (self admittedly) embellish their stories to the point where it is difficult to separate what is true and what is placed in the story to gain attention.
Sometimes its difficult to separate the two.
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My "story" has never been posted here, so it couldn't have been embellished in any way, right? Also, when I posted about "embellishing" I said I could see you maybe embellishing a little as most program parents do, but I was shocked to find out that you didn't "embellish" at all, you completely invented an entire family you never had. I was surprised to learn you had done this. I knew before you had embellished the "success" of your "daughter" when you admitted she went right back to drugs and her old friends and dropped out of highschool when she got home, but I didn't know you made up the daughter too! I thought you just made up the "story" but not the characters as well.
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I can't understand why Whooter concerns himself with others' "credibility" when Whooter made up his entire family story including inventing his children. Whooter should be concerned about his own credibility, which is nil.
I am mainly concerned because of people like yourself who (self admittedly) embellish their stories to the point where it is difficult to separate what is true and what is placed in the story to gain attention.
Sometimes its difficult to separate the two.
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My "story" has never been posted here, so it couldn't have been embellished in any way, right? Also, when I posted about "embellishing" I said I could see you maybe embellishing a little as most program parents do, but I was shocked to find out that you didn't "embellish" at all, you completely invented an entire family you never had. I was surprised to learn you had done this. I knew before you had embellished the "success" of your "daughter" when you admitted she went right back to drugs and her old friends and dropped out of highschool when she got home, but I didn't know you made up the daughter too! I thought you just made up the "story" but not the characters as well.
When you made up all your education and posted it here on the forum it was an attempt to sway the readers and mislead them as to your expertise on the various subjects. Why would you make something like that up? Why not be honest and just tell people you had a high-school diploma or a little college. I think you view this as embellishing but the rest of us readers view it as lying. I think readers would have still respected your point of view if you had been honest about your education. But now that you have been caught lying I cant see you maintaining the same credibility. Unless of course you can explain why you lied.
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I never posted anything like that. You just made all that up like you made up your family.
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I never posted anything like that. You just made all that up like you made up your family.
I've asked him several times to post the link to where he even THINKS that I "admitted that Straight was helpful and that I embellished my stories". I've linked to the posts where I believed him to be lying - even if he doesn't agree, I made a good faith effort to back up my accusations and provided a link. He can't even do that and just cried something about how my links weren't proof, therefore he wasnt' going to even attempt to provide the link to where I supposedly said anything near what he claims I did. That's spin and marketing 101(or by it's other term, "the Rove playbook").....turn it back around on the other guy. Don't provide backup to your claims. Project and accuse the other guy of what you're doing and, above all.....never, EVER admit 'defeat'. Never EVER admit to getting caught.
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Right, except he screwed up and openly admitted to making up his pretend family, so the cat's out of the bag. The best he can do now is try to muddy the waters with fake quotes, conspiracy theories and continued lying. I don't think anybody's buying what he's selling though.
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I never posted anything like that. You just made all that up like you made up your family.
I've asked him several times to post the link to where he even THINKS that I "admitted that Straight was helpful and that I embellished my stories". I've linked to the posts where I believed him to be lying - even if he doesn't agree, I made a good faith effort to back up my accusations and provided a link. He can't even do that and just cried something about how my links weren't proof, therefore he wasnt' going to even attempt to provide the link to where I supposedly said anything near what he claims I did. That's spin and marketing 101(or by it's other term, "the Rove playbook").....turn it back around on the other guy. Don't provide backup to your claims. Project and accuse the other guy of what you're doing and, above all.....never, EVER admit 'defeat'. Never EVER admit to getting caught.
Funny how that works, Anne, get mad at a someone for posting they had a son to protect a woman... then accept a post where a person pretend to be a survivor who was abused. Hmmm.... You and DJ should try to get your strategy straightened out. Its not working too well.
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I never posted anything like that. You just made all that up like you made up your family.
I've asked him several times to post the link to where he even THINKS that I "admitted that Straight was helpful and that I embellished my stories". I've linked to the posts where I believed him to be lying - even if he doesn't agree, I made a good faith effort to back up my accusations and provided a link. He can't even do that and just cried something about how my links weren't proof, therefore he wasnt' going to even attempt to provide the link to where I supposedly said anything near what he claims I did. That's spin and marketing 101(or by it's other term, "the Rove playbook").....turn it back around on the other guy. Don't provide backup to your claims. Project and accuse the other guy of what you're doing and, above all.....never, EVER admit 'defeat'. Never EVER admit to getting caught.
Funny how that works, Anne, get mad at a someone for posting they had a son to protect a woman... then accept a post where a person pretend to be a survivor who was abused.
Well, I've watched you pretend to be other people and I have been abused in much the same way that people describe here so......yeah.
Hmmm.... You and DJ should try to get your strategy straightened out. Its not working too well.
So then, you still can't provide that link where you think I said anything close to what you claim I did? That's ok......just admit it. It's really not that big a deal....you were trying to make a point and it backfired.
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Anne, get mad at a someone for posting they had a son to protect a woman
This is crazytalk. How on earth can someone "protect a woman" by fabricating a family? Whooter fabricated his family to push a viewpoint, not to "protect a woman." That's ridiculous. This argument was lost the second Whooter admitted to making up his fake family. That case is now closed.
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Well, I've watched you pretend to be other people and I have been abused in much the same way that people describe here so......yeah.
I have watched posters like yourself claim up and down that they never lied on this forum. I have seen posters claim they never posted as someone else or guest posted. But it turned out to be very false.
So what am I to believe when you act in the very same way as those people I just described above. Like your own way of thinking I need to believe that you are like them right? Is that logical to you?
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I fabricated a son
No need to wonder about the truth of that. No doubt Whooter created a fake family. I guess all he can do now is run around trying to say others are "liars" but there just happens to be no evidence of that so all that's left for the reader is the assertion of a guy who already admitted he "fabricated a son." This is pretty cut and dried for the readers.
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Well, I've watched you pretend to be other people and I have been abused in much the same way that people describe here so......yeah.
I have watched posters like yourself claim up and down that they never lied on this forum. I have seen posters claim they never posted as someone else or guest posted. But it turned out to be very false.
So point out where you think I lied then.
So what am I to believe when you act in the very same way as those people I just described above. Like your own way of thinking I need to believe that you are like them right? Is that logical to you?
Well, we're talking about me and you haven't provided any evidence whatsoever that I've lied in any way.
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Well, I've watched you pretend to be other people and I have been abused in much the same way that people describe here so......yeah.
I have watched posters like yourself claim up and down that they never lied on this forum. I have seen posters claim they never posted as someone else or guest posted. But it turned out to be very false.
So point out where you think I lied then.
So what am I to believe when you act in the very same way as those people I just described above. Like your own way of thinking I need to believe that you are like them right? Is that logical to you?
Well, we're talking about me and you haven't provided any evidence whatsoever that I've lied in any way.
Well, Anne, like you yourself say: You dont need to have any first hand knowledge that a program is abusive to call it abusive. You just state that you see many similarities that you saw at straight and therefore that is enough for you.
I see enough similarities in you as I do in dysfunction Junction. You both claim you never guest posted, both claimed you never lied, both claim you never logged in under more than one user name, both claimed you never impersonated a parent, survivor etc.. You both have the same double standards and turn a blind eye to lies that anti-program people tell but find if a pro-program person does it that is unacceptable. You are both anti-program and quickly forgive any transgressions the anti-programmers commit.
Based on your own logic there is enough similarities to conclude that you have guest posted, had multiple usernames and impersonated several survivors and parents here on fornits. Like yourself I dont really need any first hand knowledge to conclude this accurately, right?
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Well, I've watched you pretend to be other people and I have been abused in much the same way that people describe here so......yeah.
I have watched posters like yourself claim up and down that they never lied on this forum. I have seen posters claim they never posted as someone else or guest posted. But it turned out to be very false.
So point out where you think I lied then.
So what am I to believe when you act in the very same way as those people I just described above. Like your own way of thinking I need to believe that you are like them right? Is that logical to you?
Well, we're talking about me and you haven't provided any evidence whatsoever that I've lied in any way.
Well, Anne, like you yourself say: You dont need to have any first hand knowledge that a program is abusive to call it abusive. You just state that you see many similarities that you saw at straight and therefore that is enough for you.
I see enough similarities in you as I do in dysfunction Junction. You both claim you never guest posted, both claimed you never lied, both claim you never logged in under more than one user name, both claimed you never impersonated a parent, survivor etc.. You both have the same double standards and turn a blind eye to lies that anti-program people tell but find if a pro-program person does it that is unacceptable. You are both anti-program and quickly forgive any transgressions the anti-programmers commit.
Based on your own logic there is enough similarities to conclude that you have guest posted, had multiple usernames and impersonated several survivors and parents here on fornits. Like yourself I dont really need any first hand knowledge to conclude this accurately, right?
So, no lies from me then....right?
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So, no lies from me then....right?
Look at the similarities between you and Dysfunction Junction. Just like the similarities "you" see between straight and the programs of today. Its a forgone conclusion that you have lied many times here on fornits, Anne, based on your own logic. I can see this being argued against.
I have asked you for links to where you can support your claims that a program is abusive and you fall back to you similarity argument as conclusive.
So yes, based on the evidence in front of us you have lied about your time in straight and the events that have occurred there as a minimum and probably had several usernames and trolled as a guest poster. I dont think you have written pedophile posts like DJ has but the rest I think you have based on the evidence.
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So, no lies from me then....right?
Look at the similarities between you and Dysfunction Junction. Just like the similarities "you" see between straight and the programs of today. Its a forgone conclusion that you have lied many times here on fornits, Anne, based on your own logic. I can see this being argued against.
I have asked you for links to where you can support your claims that a program is abusive and you fall back to you similarity argument as conclusive.
So yes, based on the evidence in front of us you have lied about your time in straight and the events that have occurred there as a minimum and probably had several usernames and trolled as a guest poster. I dont think you have written pedophile posts like DJ has but the rest I think you have based on the evidence.
So, still no lies from me then.......right?
You can spin this all you want. I said it was easier for me to believe the abuses because I've seen it first hand. I didn't say that everyone always told the truth. Here, I'm asking you for a specific example of where you think I lied. You can't provide one.
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Its a forgone conclusion that you have lied many times here on fornits, Anne, based on your own logic.
Well, there's a bit of a problem with Whooter's "logic" here. Whooter is trying to use Anne's logic to draw conclusions that Anne has "lied" about her experiences. He's free to theorize whatever he likes, even though we all see right away he could not provide any example of Anne's alleged "lying."
However, we don't need to make logical deductions that Whooter lied here on Fornits. All we need is his own words to prove without doubt he is a liar. No analogies, no twisted "logic" are required. We simply quote Whooter's own posts where he admits being a liar.
I fabricated a son
That's a pretty hefty admission there. "I fabricated a son." Wow. If Whooter would fabricate his imaginary family, what else wouldn't he fabricate? This is why Whooter has no credibility. He already admitted he's a liar. This is just one instance of many that have been proven.
I fabricated a son
I admit that, Anne.
And as far as "pedophile posts" go, well, Whooter is up to his neck in accusing people of being pedophiles around here as well.
Now go spend some time with your kid. Turn off the porn and let him have a normal childhood for a change. If you read to him he may forget how you abuse him.
and
why are you obsessed with this JD guy? It isnt going to help you keep your son or erase what you do to him each night. We both know that yet you keep throwing personal attacks at other people hoping the pain will go away.
You are sick Ajax13. Stop molesting and abusing your son. Just because this poster proved you wrong is no reason to take it out on your own family. Its only a forum. Leave your kid in peace.
and
If your point is to just post laws, well, thats easy. There are thousands of them. I didnt see where the law you posted was written for AARC. The one posted pertains to people like yourself who abuse their kids sexually. At least mine has some credibility.
And speaking of "credibility" here is a list compiled by "Troll Control" of Whooter's aliases he has used to post on Fornits.
Whooter’s aliases:
RobertBruce.
RobertBruce .
RobertBruces
BEN WAjowski
Fred Bicep
Peg Sympson
John C.
Mike D.
Ursas
Slander Programs
John B.
Jim Bunson
Dot MacKinnon
Jammie Sympson (eventually it will be the whole “Sympson Family” I suppose)
Mark Rosen
Roger Glasdco
John Randall
Pete DeGroot
Mark DeGroot (I guess the “DeGroot Family” too)
Warner Stubbin
Steve Backlan
James Driding
Rob Jamison
Boarding Schools Pros and Cons (he’s the “con”)
Bess H.
Iao;nori
Jim Baylor
Sid Michaels
Fred Thompson
John McCain
Sarah Palin
Mitt Romney
Al Gore
Dick Cheney
Mike Wilson
Rudy Bentz (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=28962&start=15#p348150)
Heal Online (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28989&p=348683#p348690)
Margaret Wilson
Revenge Fantasy Girlz
Diddle
Robert Hess
Ajax13.
Tom K
Aghast.
Marion
To me, and probably all of the other readers here, it looks like Whooter has been by far the most dishonest poster. It appears all he has left is to try to attack others because his behavior here is very, very shady to say the least. Readers should know this context and these proven facts before rendering their judgment on Whooter's excuses for all of his dishonesty.
More on Whooter's dishonesty and aliases here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=30975#p374568) and here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=29342&p=379350#p379350).
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So, no lies from me then....right?
Look at the similarities between you and Dysfunction Junction. Just like the similarities "you" see between straight and the programs of today. Its a forgone conclusion that you have lied many times here on fornits, Anne, based on your own logic. I can see this being argued against.
I have asked you for links to where you can support your claims that a program is abusive and you fall back to you similarity argument as conclusive.
So yes, based on the evidence in front of us you have lied about your time in straight and the events that have occurred there as a minimum and probably had several usernames and trolled as a guest poster. I dont think you have written pedophile posts like DJ has but the rest I think you have based on the evidence.
So, still no lies from me then.......right?
You can spin this all you want. I said it was easier for me to believe the abuses because I've seen it first hand. I didn't say that everyone always told the truth. Here, I'm asking you for a specific example of where you think I lied. You can't provide one.
I have seen the lies here on fornits first hand, Anne, and the character of those who have lied and you fit right in with them and agree on every post. Its not a far stretch to believe that you play the same games they do. If you were free form lying yourself you would have come out and told posters like DJ that what he was doing was dishonest and underhanded. But instead you defend his actions join in his games with him. So come on, Anne, we both know that you have lied and embellished your stories and had many user names just like your other cronies.
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I have seen the lies here on fornits first hand, Anne, and the character of those who have lied and you fit right in with them and agree on every post. Its not a far stretch to believe that you play the same games they do. If you were free form lying yourself you would have come out and told posters like DJ that what he was doing was dishonest and underhanded. But instead you defend his actions join in his games with him. So come on, Anne, we both know that you have lied and embellished your stories and had many user names just like your other cronies.
Just as I said....still no lies from me.
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Click here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31299&start=420#p383487) to see Whooter's record of lies, dishonesty and accusations of pedophilia.
I fabricated a son
Yeah, we heard. That's what got people looking into your "record" on Fornits.
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Click here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31299&start=420#p383487) to see Whooter's record of lies, dishonesty and accusations of pedophilia.
I fabricated a son
Yeah, we heard. That's what got people looking into your "record" on Fornits.
Ha,Ha,Ha DJ, what is this your third user name here in a month? Is it that tough for you to just be yourself and join the conversation without having to start going undercover again?
You are so insecure, geesh, grow up.
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Click here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31299&start=420#p383487) to see Whooter's record of lies, dishonesty and accusations of pedophilia.
I fabricated a son
Yeah, we heard. That's what got people looking into your "record" on Fornits.
I understand it must be tough on Whooter to get cornered like this and have to admit he "fabricated a son" but the conspiracy theories have gone wild now! Almost everyone who reade here knows Whooter's lying history, but he continues to call everyone who catches him lying "DJ" or "Bruce" or "ajax" for some reason.
I fabricated a son
What else have you fabricated?
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Back on topic about Programs abusing kids.
Many of the posts depicting abuse may be fabricated like this one:
I was abused in a program that the poster whooter recommended to my parents. The staff licked my bottom and forced me to perform oral sex on them my first day there. They made me touch their dogs in places that I don’t want to talk about. I ran away and my parents are suing the program. I am scared for life.
How are we going to differentiate between the real instances of abuse and the ones that Dysfunction Junction/Watchful Yeoman just make up and post here to discredit the programs?
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=335866#p335866)
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In this case, DJ was being satirical. You know that.
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In this case, DJ was being satirical. You know that.
lol, see I knew you would justify his post. So you like that stuff hey, Samara, all the language and all? Says a lot about you. Now Imagine if I had written something like that. do you think everyone would say: "Oh that Whooter is just having fun again, he is such a kidder" or do you think it would be viewed as a disgusting sick minded post from a program parent in need of therapy trying to discredit a poster so he can make more money... lol.
See what I mean, Samara. I was going to say upfront that you would support this post but wanted to give you a chance to do it yourself.
Its funny to watch how you cant see how blinded you are to your double standard. Oh, now you will cry foul that I said bad things about you. lol
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..
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In this case, DJ was being satirical. You know that.
Did you click on the link, Samara? The post doesn't exist. Whooter made it up. But it's nice to see that readers give the honest folk here the benefit of the doubt.
Do a search on "the staff licked my bottom" and you get two hits, both Whooter.
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In this case, DJ was being satirical. You know that.
Did you click on the link, Samara? The post doesn't exist. Whooter made it up. But it's nice to see that readers give the honest folk here the benefit of the doubt.
Yes, you deleted it a few hours after we had your posts strung together to your user name (look at the edit stamp). I wonder why you rushed to delete it? lol I ran a search on your key disgusting words and came up with dozens of posts just like these after your posts were strung together. You spent weeks cleaning up your past and finally decided it would be best to change your name... (good move) As a heads up there are still some you have not deleted yet, DJ.
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People, people, people.
All Whooter John is trying to say, is that he doesn't have any evidence to back up any of his claims. Ever. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
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Bruce, why do you continuously have to attack people for their opinions on this forum? You are trying to bully people, again, into believing or saying what you want them to say. You tried this several times with me and each time you failed and only managed to derail the conversation. We established early on that you have a tendency to exaggerate your stories and length of time spent in HLA so we tend to ask for more detail from you to establish the level of credibility in your stories. Dont take it personally, just try to stay on topic and answer the questions the best you can.
Tell me something John, which argument was it you think you won? Please cite the thread because I would love to read it. Was it the time you claimed there were only 10,000 psychologist in the US? Or the time you claimed 60 kids were killed in public schools every week? There are so many to choose from John, pick one.
Do you realize how many times I (and others) have asked you to back up your claims? Guess how many times you've actually done it? Zero John. You just keep coming up empty. So while you can claim that I exaggerate the facts about my incarceration and abuse at HLA, so far you don't seem able to ever actually prove any of your claims.
When's that going to change John?
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People, people, people.
All Whooter John is trying to say, is that he doesn't have any evidence to back up any of his claims. Ever. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Exactly, RobertBruce. His new schtick is picking any edited post by someone he wants to attack and saying "It used to say this ________." which, as usual, is a total farication.
psy took down the poll, by the way, about Whooter's fabrications. The results were 100% believe he's a liar, 0% believe he's not. The readers have decided, Whooter. You're a liar.
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Now Imagine if I had written something like that. do you think everyone would say: "Oh that Whooter is just having fun again, he is such a kidder" or do you think it would be viewed as a disgusting sick minded post from a program parent in need of therapy trying to discredit a poster so he can make more money... lol.
Well, they said it was meant to be satirical. That doesn't necessarily mean humorous. Kinda like your absurd "analogies".
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Now Imagine if I had written something like that. do you think everyone would say: "Oh that Whooter is just having fun again, he is such a kidder" or do you think it would be viewed as a disgusting sick minded post from a program parent in need of therapy trying to discredit a poster so he can make more money... lol.
Well, they said it was meant to be satirical. That doesn't necessarily mean humorous. Kinda like your absurd "analogies".
Imagine if I had written something like that.
Funny you say that, Whooter, because you did write it. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=whooter+recommended+to+my+parents.+The+staff+licked+my+bottom)
It never existed. Whooter got caught making up posts again. I certainly never said anything even remotely resembling that remark, it was never quoted or repeated anywhere and if you search for it you get exactly two hits, both written by Whooter. So, no, it wasn't satirical or humorous, it was fabricated out of whole cloth by idiot-boy.
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Now Imagine if I had written something like that. do you think everyone would say: "Oh that Whooter is just having fun again, he is such a kidder" or do you think it would be viewed as a disgusting sick minded post from a program parent in need of therapy trying to discredit a poster so he can make more money... lol.
Well, they said it was meant to be satirical. That doesn't necessarily mean humorous. Kinda like your absurd "analogies".
Imagine if I had written something like that.
Funny you say that, Whooter, because you did write it. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=whooter+recommended+to+my+parents.+The+staff+licked+my+bottom)
It never existed. Whooter got caught making up posts again. I certainly never said anything even remotely resembling that remark, it was never quoted or repeated anywhere and if you search for it you get exactly two hits, both written by Whooter. So, no, it wasn't satirical or humorous, it was fabricated out of whole cloth by idiot-boy.
Nice try, look at the edit stamp. You edited it out a few hours after we strung your posts together. I captured a whole page of your attack posts before you had a chance to erase them.
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Suuuuurrrre you did, Whooter. If you had anything like that you would have done what I did to you and simply QFTed the posts. Since they didn't exist, you couldn't do that and now you're left to just making stuff up, like you made up your nonexistent family. Anyone can click your silly link and see that there is no post as you described and anyone can click the link I provided to see you wrote that yourself and it appears nowhere else in the DB.
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Suuuuurrrre you did, Whooter. If you had anything like that you would have done what I did to you and simply QFTed the posts. Since they didn't exist, you couldn't do that and now you're left to just making stuff up, like you made up your nonexistent family. Anyone can click your silly link and see that there is no post as you described and anyone can click the link I provided to see you wrote that yourself and it appears nowhere else in the DB.
Why not take this to the offa thread? Maybe thewhos lies? We know you wrote them DJ, I captured dozens of posts after we tied your posts to your user name. I mentioned that same day that I was only going to post a few because I didnt want to embarrass you with your wife reading and all, besides, If the posts were not true then why did you go back and try to edit out your filth and lies?
Again check the edit stamps. Thats what they are for. If you want me to post more let me know. I have posts of you posting as a parent with kids, most of them have been abused in programs, lots of filth as you well know with your penchant for little boys, I have several of you posting as survivors who were abused in programs.
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Of course, now that you've been caught lying yet again, you want this taken to the OFFA. Those posts don't exist anywhere but in your own mind, Whooter. In case you didn't get it yet, nobody believes what you say. Nobody. Remember the poll from yesterday? "Let the readers decide"? Well, they decided. 100% of respondents indicated they believe you lie about almost everything or everything.
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Of course, now that you've been caught lying yet again, you want this taken to the OFFA. Those posts don't exist anywhere but in your own mind, Whooter. In case you didn't get it yet, nobody believes what you say. Nobody. Remember the poll from yesterday? "Let the readers decide"? Well, they decided. 100% of respondents indicated they believe you lie about almost everything or everything.
I dont see a lie. Lets look again. This topic is Programs abuse kids.
Back on topic about Programs abusing kids.
Many of the posts depicting abuse may be fabricated like this one:
I was abused in a program that the poster whooter recommended to my parents. The staff licked my bottom and forced me to perform oral sex on them my first day there. They made me touch their dogs in places that I don’t want to talk about. I ran away and my parents are suing the program. I am scared for life.
How are we going to differentiate between the real instances of abuse and the ones that Dysfunction Junction/Watchful Yeoman just make up and post here to discredit the programs?
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=335866#p335866)
(Notice the edit stamp)
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The linked post says......
Very interesting in retrospect.
:beat: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Another dud. Maybe I will post some of Whooter's more salacious admissions next.
I did a search on this verbiage and guess who actually wrote it? You guessed it!
I was abused in a program that the poster whooter recommended to my parents. The staff licked my bottom and forced me to perform oral sex on them my first day there. They made me touch their dogs in places that I don’t want to talk about. I ran away and my parents are suing the program. I am scared for life.
Why would Whooter impersonate a survior, make up a ridiculous story and then try to attribute it to someone else when anyone searching the database can easily see he himself wrote it? (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=whooter+recommended+to+my+parents.+The+staff+licked+my+bottom)
I fabricated a son
Oh yeah, that's why. :roflmao:
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The original "Many Many Programs Abuse Kids" thread was split because people were off topic and aruging about off topic subjects. Please notify a moderator if someone violates the rules (for example: goes off topic) in the future.
Why should we notify a moderator? Aren't you still "skimming"?
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So now there's a "no changing the subject title" rule?
Now I think this shit has gone a little too far...
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Whooter..Where in the world has the pope declared and the Catholics declared that they have accepted homosexuality? That is incorrect info..sorry Whooter try again!
The pope was born in like 1920. If they told him what was going on he would have a heart attack.
More and more accepted by this world eh? Is that why when I tried to turn to survivors for support - people that were friends of mine for years about the harsh break-up from myself and my partner I was treated just so nicely here? Is that why I had a str8 friend think I was coming onto her when I called her babe b/c she felt sick? Wow Wake up Whooter....WOW is that why kids are committing suicide because us homosexuals are so well and widely accepted. Please quit talking about what you do not know.
I am an adult bi-sexual and still not accepted and loved by many b/c I am gay. I speak from experience , not speculation.
-DP
I didnt say that homosexuals are completely accepted in society. I am saying (from my perspective) that their acceptance has come a long way since the 1960's and in another generation they will be almost completely integrated and accepted. Back in the 1960's the word Gay was a slur. They were not accepted at all and were referred to as fruit cakes or as a birth defect of some type. They would marry woman and have kids because that was what was accepted of men in those days. They started having sex with each other in San Fransisco which caused the Aids Virus which proved that homosexuality was unnatural and needed to be treated like a disease.
People are still curious about homosexuals today and what makes them tick. But they are much more open now and accepted in the business world and society in general. Straight kids and homosexuals commit suicide, maybe not at the same rate. Parents are more accepting of gay children than 50 years ago but they would still prefer a straight child over a gay one I would guess and that is why the kids are not open to telling their parents that they are gay and feel much more humiliated if they are outed on the internet like what happened recently. If this were a straight kid he may still feel humiliated knowing his family may be seeing it but it would pale in comparison to a child who was having a homosexual relationship.
I didnt see you being treated badly because of your sexual orientation here on fornits. People are treated badly here in general. I am not gay but I am treated pretty bad at times.
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This is one of the smartest things ever said on Fornits. You people should learn from this man.
Thank you, SUCK_IT. Some people have a hard time understanding how unnatural it is to be gay. Look, it's not natural.[/i] Many programs have components to deal with gay kids and straighten them out. It has a huge benefit to society. If there were no gays, the Aids Virus would never have been created. Finally now we have some programs to help.
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Whooter..Where in the world has the pope declared and the Catholics declared that they have accepted homosexuality? That is incorrect info..sorry Whooter try again!
The pope was born in like 1920. If they told him what was going on he would have a heart attack.
More and more accepted by this world eh? Is that why when I tried to turn to survivors for support - people that were friends of mine for years about the harsh break-up from myself and my partner I was treated just so nicely here? Is that why I had a str8 friend think I was coming onto her when I called her babe b/c she felt sick? Wow Wake up Whooter....WOW is that why kids are committing suicide because us homosexuals are so well and widely accepted. Please quit talking about what you do not know.
I am an adult bi-sexual and still not accepted and loved by many b/c I am gay. I speak from experience , not speculation.
-DP
I didnt say that homosexuals are completely accepted in society. I am saying (from my perspective) that their acceptance has come a long way since the 1960's and in another generation they will be almost completely integrated and accepted. Back in the 1960's the word Gay was a slur. They were not accepted at all and were referred to as fruit cakes or as a birth defect of some type. They would marry woman and have kids because that was what was accepted of men in those days. They started having sex with each other in San Fransisco which caused the Aids Virus which proved that homosexuality was unnatural and needed to be treated like a disease.
People are still curious about homosexuals today and what makes them tick. But they are much more open now and accepted in the business world and society in general. Straight kids and homosexuals commit suicide, maybe not at the same rate. Parents are more accepting of gay children than 50 years ago but they would still prefer a straight child over a gay one I would guess and that is why the kids are not open to telling their parents that they are gay and feel much more humiliated if they are outed on the internet like what happened recently. If this were a straight kid he may still feel humiliated knowing his family may be seeing it but it would pale in comparison to a child who was having a homosexual relationship.
I didnt see you being treated badly because of your sexual orientation here on fornits. People are treated badly here in general. I am not gay but I am treated pretty bad at times.
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This is one of the smartest things ever said on Fornits. You people should learn from this man.
Thank you, SUCK_IT. Some people have a hard time understanding how unnatural it is to be gay. Look, it's not natural.[/i] Many programs have components to deal with gay kids and straighten them out. It has a huge benefit to society. If there were no gays, the Aids Virus would never have been created. Finally now we have some programs to help.
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Can anyone offer an update as to the number of programs that treat teens for being gay? I believe the number of programs is growing to meet the needs of parents with gay kids or kids who are at-risk to become gay. These programs help to slow the spread of the AIDS Virus.
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Your arrogance is exeeded only by your ignorance.
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Your arrogance is exeeded only by your ignorance.
Look, none-ya, the hey-days of liberalism have gone by already. We're now on a more conservative and proper course in America. Once we take full control of the congress and the White House we will do away with all of the pro-gay legislation passed by liberal socialists and get back to real family values, including anti-gay values, as we should. There is going to be a lot of demand for programs that treat teens for being gay once conservatives are back in charge. Treating teens that are gay or at-risk for being gay is going to become much more popular and the programs recognize this and are ramping up to meet the demand.
Just so everyone knows, none-ya supports behaviors that are proven to spread the AIDS Virus. I don't.
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Exactly when were the hey days of liberalism? Certainly not since I've been old enough to vote.
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You must mean the LBJ admistration? Where the author of the great society sent more americans to Viet Nam than any other. Or maybe the Carter administration,Where after 4 years the term democrat became a cuss word. Of course you must be referring to the second half of the Clinton administration,where everyone had jobs for a change. (hey-day?). But then he had to get that damn blow job.If there's a liberal hey-day a commin' Sign me up. But it's not happened in my lifetime.
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Your arrogance is exeeded only by your ignorance.
Look, none-ya, the hey-days of liberalism have gone by already. We're now on a more conservative and proper course in America. Once we take full control of the congress and the White House we will do away with all of the pro-gay legislation passed by liberal socialists and get back to real family values, including anti-gay values, as we should. There is going to be a lot of demand for programs that treat teens for being gay once conservatives are back in charge. Treating teens that are gay or at-risk for being gay is going to become much more popular and the programs recognize this and are ramping up to meet the demand.
Just so everyone knows, none-ya supports behaviors that are proven to spread the AIDS Virus. I don't.
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There are several programs for troubled gay teens in San Francisco that help them get back on the right path. none-ya went to one when he was younger.
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God, what horseshit.
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God, what horseshit.
Froderik I expected a reaction like this from you. I think it would be good for your mental health to look at the positive aspects of programs. lol
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God, what horseshit.
Froderik I expected a reaction like this from you. I think it would be good for your mental health to look at the positive aspects of programs. lol
I'm sure Dr. Fucktard would agree. :ftard:
Thanks for the laffs! :roflmao:
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Therapy and medication will help you achieve goals you set in your program. Froderik it's time to be honest with yourself and get back on track! lol
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Therapy and medication will help you achieve goals you set in your program. Froderik it's time to be honest with yourself and get back on track! lol
If only therapy and medication would make you go away.
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Therapy and medication will help you achieve goals you set in your program. Froderik it's time to be honest with yourself and get back on track! lol
If only therapy and medication would make you go away.
:rofl:
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.