Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on October 24, 2007, 06:58:15 PM
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I'm totally serious. It was wrong of him, but I didn't mind it since he was HOT! So, does that count?!! There were a few of us in there that thought some of the men around us were very handsome, and flirted hard with them. Does that make it wrong for the male staff since we welcomed it? A lot of people on this board feel like that no matter what any contact with a student is wrong, and I'm not sure I agree with that?
I was not the type of girl that kept to herself either. I kept up on all the latest gossip. Besides news like that spreads quick. Us girls would brag about getting these poor guys to cross the line. Sometimes we'd do it just o see them get fired, and laugh about it.
While you are at it, chain her knees together. Also you have to remember a lot of times these girls are 16/17 and male staff are in their early 20's. That's bound to present problems for a program.
CCM CUNT IS A SELF ADMITTED WHORE.
CCM CUNT BELITTLES REAL SEXUAL ABUSE VICTIMS.
CCM CUNT EXCUSES ILLEGAL ACTS BY ADULTS ON MINORS.
CCM CUNT IS A STUPID BITCH THAT LAUGHS AT HER PEERS WHO WERE ABUSED.
SHAME ON YOU CCM CUNT. SHAME SHAME SHAME ON YOU AND ALL YOUR FAMILY FOR RAISING A STUPID CUNT LIKE YOU.
NOW GO WHINE TO THEWHO AND CALL HIM DADDY LIKE YOU DID BOBBY LICHFIELD YOU WHORE.
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Despite the fact that this is a troll thread, I want to respond to CCM's ancient quote.
Teenagers are horny.
Being with someone older as a teen is sexy.
Being with someone older as a teen and that person has a position of authority over you is even sexier.
All of this is normal. There were so many adults I wanted to fuck as a teen it wasn't even funny. Had an adult been willing, I would have jumped at the chance.
Most teens would.
And any adult who takes advantage of this perfectly normal thing is a scumbag, because they should seriously fucking know better.
And I'm not talking about age in numbers. If you are 18 and you are dating a 16 year old that is fine and dandy as far as I'm concerned. If you are 35, however, that is fucked up. Why? Because of the authority dynamic. If you started dating that girl ten years later, even though the age difference is the same, the level of development is not, because that person is an adult and has learned how to set boundaries. Teens set boundaries, too, but no matter how rebellious someone is at that age, if they have a thing for an adult and those two go at it, most of that teen moxie is going to turn into mushy infatuation.
YES, it is consensual. But it's still messed up. I know several people who had consensual sex with adults while they were teens, and they always regretted it.
So, to answer the question from another thread eons ago, CCMGirl:
Does that make it wrong for the male staff since we welcomed it?
YES!!!
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Despite the fact that this is a troll thread, I want to respond to CCM's ancient quote.
Teenagers are horny.
Being with someone older as a teen is sexy.
Being with someone older as a teen and that person has a position of authority over you is even sexier.
All of this is normal. There were so many adults I wanted to fuck as a teen it wasn't even funny. Had an adult been willing, I would have jumped at the chance.
Most teens would.
And any adult who takes advantage of this perfectly normal thing is a scumbag, because they should seriously fucking know better.
And I'm not talking about age in numbers. If you are 18 and you are dating a 16 year old that is fine and dandy as far as I'm concerned. If you are 35, however, that is fucked up. Why? Because of the authority dynamic. If you started dating that girl ten years later, even though the age difference is the same, the level of development is not, because that person is an adult and has learned how to set boundaries. Teens set boundaries, too, but no matter how rebellious someone is at that age, if they have a thing for an adult and those two go at it, most of that teen moxie is going to turn into mushy infatuation.
YES, it is consensual. But it's still messed up. I know several people who had consensual sex with adults while they were teens, and they always regretted it.
So, to answer the question from another thread eons ago, CCMGirl:
Does that make it wrong for the male staff since we welcomed it?
YES!!!
Just another poster who is a liar, and just another person with a foul mouth. I could care less. You're funny actually. Thanks for the laughs. Don't pretend like you know me. You don't.
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Wait.
How am I a liar?
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Puhleese, where to even begin?
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Unzip my pants?
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(http://http://a690.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/63/m_1ef76fe1d526b9d6675606f1064de6f1.jpg)
He looks so nice!
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He's a real sweetheart.
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I CAN be sweet but nobody WANTS that now do they.
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CCM, I have to say I am really impressed on how you are handling yourself. I have been thru dozens of these abuse sessions myself and you really impress me in the way you defend yourself. Robert Bruce was pretty much the same as Niles, had very little knowledge of programs but liked to abuse people and troll them. Robert Bruce claimed a 92 I.Q. and use to respond in 2 to 3 word sentences (tops) and Niles claims a 146 I.Q. and responds using pictures of apes, slurs towards minorities and pornography when he loses an argument. Go figure…….. How much of this dialog can we really believe?
Good show, CCM
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Unzip my pants?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Tooooooo Funny!
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CCM, I have to say I am really impressed on how you are handling yourself. I have been thru dozens of these abuse sessions myself and you really impress me in the way you defend yourself. Robert Bruce was pretty much the same as Niles, had very little knowledge of programs but liked to abuse people and troll them. Robert Bruce claimed a 92 I.Q. and use to respond in 2 to 3 word sentences (tops) and Niles claims a 146 I.Q. and responds using pictures of apes, slurs towards minorities and pornography when he loses an argument. Go figure…….. How much of this dialog can we really believe?
Good show, CCM
It's been tough, and quite time consuming to defend myself, and what I believe. As you know the majority of people on here are very close minded. That, and they love to be victims. Some people like Niles, who have never been to a program in their entire life, like to pretend like they know what they are talking about.
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Why 3 1/2 years CCM GIRL?
Were you forced to do LGAT's?
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Why 3 1/2 years CCM GIRL?
Were you forced to do LGAT's?
Correction 4 1/2 years dammit!
LGAT's???? Are you talking levels, and seminars?
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Large Group Awareness Training.
AKA the Seminars that made you the brainwashed winch you are today.
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I attended a 3 day seminar at CCM. Then for a reward they took us out to dinner, and a movie (The Abyss). That was when I came up with the bright idea to run. 6 of us scaled down the hill. 3 turned back. An hour later a trucker turned us in, then they came and picked us up to return us to CCM.
Oh yeah, those seminars totally programmed me. You're so right! You always are!!!!
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HOW long were you in WWASPS?
They do them every 6 weeks, at least more recently than when you were in WWASPS, yanno, when the mountains were still cooling and dinosaurs walked the earth.
AT any rate, I can't rape a kid and then buy the kid ice cream to make it better, now can I?
That only works on you!
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CCM, I have to say I am really impressed on how you are handling yourself. I have been thru dozens of these abuse sessions myself and you really impress me in the way you defend yourself. Robert Bruce was pretty much the same as Niles, had very little knowledge of programs but liked to abuse people and troll them. Robert Bruce claimed a 92 I.Q. and use to respond in 2 to 3 word sentences (tops) and Niles claims a 146 I.Q. and responds using pictures of apes, slurs towards minorities and pornography when he loses an argument. Go figure…….. How much of this dialog can we really believe?
Good show, CCM
CCM CUNT really likes praise from older men, keep it up!!!!
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That's WENCH Niles.
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Good times, you're so right! No, I only attended 1 seminar. They just started them when I was there. In fact, it might have been the very first one? You're right about the fact I was there ages ago. So what Niles, at least I was there Mr. Ifuckingnoitall!!!!!
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My whole point is, that I am not programmed.
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Niles is programmed by anti program rhetoric!!!!
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Niles is programmed by anti program rhetoric!!!!
True. True.
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You're emotionally defending programs and relying on argumentative ploys instead of facts to back up your assertions.
Who is the programmed one here? Why not prove what you say instead of give nonsensical generalities and say we're saying kids should be allowed to hurt people?
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You're emotionally defending programs and relying on argumentative ploys instead of facts to back up your assertions.
Who is the programmed one here? Why not prove what you say instead of give nonsensical generalities and say we're saying kids should be allowed to hurt people?
Hey , you keep asking others, why dont you show some proof?
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Niles, you first.
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You're emotionally defending programs and relying on argumentative ploys instead of facts to back up your assertions.
Who is the programmed one here? Why not prove what you say instead of give nonsensical generalities and say we're saying kids should be allowed to hurt people?
Hey , you keep asking others, why dont you show some proof?
I've reposted enough, and the burden of proof is on them to prove programs work anyway!
They've had 30 years... what gives? If they're so good, show something!
That also is irrelevant to the issue of ethics, morals, and their rights as children, or the nonsensical model of treating problems by ignoring them and forcing completion of a B.M. Curriculum supplemented with LGATs.
Quite frankly, programs are absurd, and the only thing CCMgirl can pull out of her ass is "they're not ALL bad!" (with no proof, or anything more than a false middle fallacy as a crutch) or "WELL YOU DON'T OFFER ALTERNATIVES WTF YOURE SAYING LET THEM HURT PEOPLE?
Honestly... most people with troubled kids do fine without programs. Statistics don't LIE. There are tons of alternatives, and I don't feel like copying and pasting everything deb has posted for years just for CCM.
Put up, or shut up, and see the sig.
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Did you happen to see my sig?
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I love your question dodging.
Seriously.
That isn't a troll, that is a valid query. Anyone can see that.
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Despite the fact that this is a troll thread, I want to respond to CCM's ancient quote.
Teenagers are horny.
Being with someone older as a teen is sexy.
Being with someone older as a teen and that person has a position of authority over you is even sexier.
All of this is normal. There were so many adults I wanted to fuck as a teen it wasn't even funny. Had an adult been willing, I would have jumped at the chance.
Most teens would.
And any adult who takes advantage of this perfectly normal thing is a scumbag, because they should seriously fucking know better.
And I'm not talking about age in numbers. If you are 18 and you are dating a 16 year old that is fine and dandy as far as I'm concerned. If you are 35, however, that is fucked up. Why? Because of the authority dynamic. If you started dating that girl ten years later, even though the age difference is the same, the level of development is not, because that person is an adult and has learned how to set boundaries. Teens set boundaries, too, but no matter how rebellious someone is at that age, if they have a thing for an adult and those two go at it, most of that teen moxie is going to turn into mushy infatuation.
YES, it is consensual. But it's still messed up. I know several people who had consensual sex with adults while they were teens, and they always regretted it.
So, to answer the question from another thread eons ago, CCMGirl:
Does that make it wrong for the male staff since we welcomed it?
YES!!!
Just another poster who is a liar, and just another person with a foul mouth. I could care less. You're funny actually. Thanks for the laughs. Don't pretend like you know me. You don't.
No argument about not knowing you, (or having a foul mouth) That's kind of obvious. However, I dispute the fact that I *just* have another foul mouth. I would like to think that my foul mouth is special.
As for being funny... well... it depends on your sense of humor, I guess.
As for liar, the last time I was called that was in the program. Seriously. I had to wear it on a label written on my chest. Due to the fact that those people were the only ones who called me that, I tend to put more stake in my family and friends' opinions of me.
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You, and I have one thing in common. I have never been called a liar outside of my programs. i admit I do still have a tendency to manipulate to get what I want. And everyone knows how god damn funny I am.
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You're emotionally defending programs and relying on argumentative ploys instead of facts to back up your assertions.
Who is the programmed one here? Why not prove what you say instead of give nonsensical generalities and say we're saying kids should be allowed to hurt people?
Hey , you keep asking others, why dont you show some proof?
I've reposted enough, and the burden of proof is on them to prove programs work anyway!
They've had 30 years... what gives? If they're so good, show something!
That also is irrelevant to the issue of ethics, morals, and their rights as children, or the nonsensical model of treating problems by ignoring them and forcing completion of a B.M. Curriculum supplemented with LGATs.
Quite frankly, programs are absurd, and the only thing CCMgirl can pull out of her ass is "they're not ALL bad!" (with no proof, or anything more than a false middle fallacy as a crutch) or "WELL YOU DON'T OFFER ALTERNATIVES WTF YOURE SAYING LET THEM HURT PEOPLE?
Honestly... most people with troubled kids do fine without programs. Statistics don't LIE. There are tons of alternatives, and I don't feel like copying and pasting everything deb has posted for years just for CCM.
Put up, or shut up, and see the sig.
You show us nothing, if you think the schools are ineffective produce some evidence, some data that suggests 20,000 kids a year suffer in these places. The fact remains that they dont.... you spin off and go nuts and start posting porn because a couple of people push your buttons and you dont have the education or grammar to defend your position thru dialog yet in the same breath boast of a 146 I.Q.. (whats up with that?)
You have no evidence, you just beat up on people like CCM who tell a different truth than you want to believe.
This is nothing more than a dumping grounds for your anger and hatred, you have no ties to this industry what so ever, so pick a sight like KKK or NAACP to beat up on and leave survivors like CCM and my daughter off your list.
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Amen!
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You show us nothing, if you think the schools are ineffective produce some evidence, some data that suggests 20,000 kids a year suffer in these places.
NO!!!!! YOU are the one screaming about how "successful" programs are. PROVE IT. The burden of proof is on YOU!!!! YOU say they're successful. SHOW ME! Studies. Long term, clinical studies.....not anecdotal evidence.
The fact remains that they dont.... you spin off and go nuts and start posting porn because a couple of people push your buttons and you dont have the education or grammar to defend your position thru dialog yet in the same breath boast of a 146 I.Q.. (whats up with that?)
You have no idea who I am or what my life is about. You start fucking around with a kid's psyche and you're gonna do some serious fucking damage. You force or coerce "treatment" on someone......you're asking for trouble.
You have no evidence, you just beat up on people like CCM who tell a different truth than you want to believe. This is nothing more than a dumping grounds for your anger and hatred, you have no ties to this industry what so ever, so pick a sight like KKK or NAACP to beat up on and leave survivors like CCM and my daughter off your list.
I call CCM girl on some of the moronic shit she says. Lately I've been ragging her on the fact that she thinks its OK for a staff member to have a sexual relationship with a patient as long as the patient agrees and thinks the staff is hot. Then she completely mocked survivors who actually have been sexually abused bey staff. I have a major problem with that and I said so. In emphatic terms. Again, I guess I'm an asshole that way.
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You show us nothing, if you think the schools are ineffective produce some evidence, some data that suggests 20,000 kids a year suffer in these places.
NO!!!!! YOU are the one screaming about how "successful" programs are. PROVE IT. The burden of proof is on YOU!!!! YOU say they're successful. SHOW ME! Studies. Long term, clinical studies.....not anecdotal evidence.
The fact remains that they dont.... you spin off and go nuts and start posting porn because a couple of people push your buttons and you dont have the education or grammar to defend your position thru dialog yet in the same breath boast of a 146 I.Q.. (whats up with that?)
You have no idea who I am or what my life is about. You start fucking around with a kid's psyche and you're gonna do some serious fucking damage. You force or coerce "treatment" on someone......you're asking for trouble.
You have no evidence, you just beat up on people like CCM who tell a different truth than you want to believe. This is nothing more than a dumping grounds for your anger and hatred, you have no ties to this industry what so ever, so pick a sight like KKK or NAACP to beat up on and leave survivors like CCM and my daughter off your list.
I call CCM girl on some of the moronic shit she says. Lately I've been ragging her on the fact that she thinks its OK for a staff member to have a sexual relationship with a patient as long as the patient agrees and thinks the staff is hot. Then she completely mocked survivors who actually have been sexually abused bey staff. I have a major problem with that and I said so. In emphatic terms. Again, I guess I'm an asshole that way.
Ha,Ha,Ha, you should look at my post again, calm down, I was talking to niles.
TheNewWho
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I mocked survivors who were sexually abused by staff members? That's not true!
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Every single code of psychiatric, psychological and counseling ethics bars relationships between therapists and patients -- EVEN WHEN THE PATIENTS ARE OUTPATIENT AND BOTH PARTIES ARE ADULTS!!!!
When the situation is inpatient, the patient is not free to leave and the patient is a minor, there is absolutely no question that it is legally and ethically considered abuse even the if patient actually seduced the counselor/psychologist/psychiatrist/therapist.
You can sue even if the affair was consensual because due to the power dynamics, by the fact of its existence, such a relationship is an abuse of power.
While it's good that CCM girl doesn't feel that this was harmful to her, the fact is, it is abuse and could result in a successful malpractice judgment if there was proof of it having happened in any therapeutic relationship, even if both parties were adults.
This just shows, again, why amateurs should not be allowed to run residential programs. At least unethical professionals in this situation would know they were doing something wrong-- but according to Ken Kay, these relationships *aren't* always wrong (at least so he testified in court).
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Yet if you look clearly you don't see CCM Girl saying such a relationship is appropriate. She stated clearly she felt such a relationship was wrong.. Just not rape.
This is what I love about fornits..
100 percent bullshit 100 percent of the time.
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Yet if you look clearly you don't see CCM Girl saying such a relationship is appropriate. She stated clearly she felt such a relationship was wrong.. Just not rape.
This is what I love about fornits..
100 percent bullshit 100 percent of the time.
I agree with this, actually. Rape can't be consensual.
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Yet if you look clearly you don't see CCM Girl saying such a relationship is appropriate. She stated clearly she felt such a relationship was wrong.. Just not rape.
This is what I love about fornits..
100 percent bullshit 100 percent of the time.
I agree with this, actually. Rape can't be consensual.
Define consensual.
If you are brainwashed for a few years into thinking your therapists/teachers are God and that you must obey them, and they take advantage of that inherent authority dynamic, is that really consensual?
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Cult leaders get all the pussy.
Hell with it. I've got the credentials they're looking for (e.g. none). Where can I sign up to get me some of this?
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What boggles the mind is CCM Girl has repeatedly stated she doesn't believe sexual interactions between staff and client are appropriate.
Yet here on fornits we need to have a big drama blast and flame her because she doesn't believe she was raped?
Again.. Bullshit 100 percent of the time..
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I suggest that fornits posters get in contact with the other girls that were in Cross Creek Manor with CCM and see if what she says is true or not. She wasn't the only one that was there. Different people have different experiences so ask around and see what you find, you might be surprised.
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What boggles the mind is CCM Girl has repeatedly stated she doesn't believe sexual interactions between staff and client are appropriate.
Yet here on fornits we need to have a big drama blast and flame her because she doesn't believe she was raped?
Again.. Bullshit 100 percent of the time..
No one is saying CCM was raped(she never said that[Edit:I see the guest post, CCM never claimed to have had a sexual relationship with a staff member]). She did say that it was not rape if the "girl enjoyed it", legally that is not true. That statement is not true according to everything that is known about sexual predictors. sexual predictors groom, seduce, victims and often at the time of the assault the victim does feel genuine feelings of love, or something similar, for the attacker. However this has been proven beyond a doubt that this is just another part of sexual predation of children.
Just to add legally a child or someone not of sound mind can not consent.
test
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I soooo totally regret that I ever brought this subject up. ::blah::
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Maybe if you bang her, she'd listen to you and you can tell her to shut up?
:P
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Maybe if you bang her, she'd listen to you and you can tell her to shut up?
:P
Niles, do we need to pitch in to buy you a blow up doll, or what?!! Anyway, you all have a way of twisting my posts, and selectively choosing my words.
I do not think sexual relationships between staff, and students are okay. I said that there were times when students and staff were close in age that there were some lines that were crossed. I never said any of these people had sexual intercourse while in any of my programs. I did however say that there were a couple of students who hooked up later on with these male staff after they got out of the programs. From my memory they were 18 or darn near close to it. While the men were in their early to mid 20's.
You guys are so easy to throw out the word rape. I just think you take my words, and what I say, and blow them way out of proportion. I admitted that we girls used to play games with the male staff trying to get them to do something wrong so they would get fired. I said that was wrong of me. But, the past is the past. There is not a damn thing I can do about it.
I think that there has been abuse that has gone on in schools, and in programs. I would be a fool to say that it never happened. But, there is the other side of it too. Look, no matter where you go in life, no matter who you trust your kids with, you always run the risk of something like this happening. To blame it on a program is just insane! It happens everywhere. More on the outside, then on the inside. We all know that.
So whatever, give me all the shit you want. I think it's important that parents see all sides to this. Some of these kids are not victims. You act as if they all are. Some of them yes, but not all of them.
Sorry, but that is my opinion. I don't think that when a girl turns 18 all of a sudden it is this magical thing, and POOF she is now available to all men, of all ages. Every girl is different maturity wise. I think some of these men in there 20's are too. I know it's the law, but I disagree with it. Rape is taking someone against their will in my opinion. Not when they are late teens, and some man is in his early 20's, and it's concentual.
Whatever, I got other stuff to do. See ya!
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I think that there has been abuse that has gone on in schools, and in programs. I would be a fool to say that it never happened. But, there is the other side of it too. Look, no matter where you go in life, no matter who you trust your kids with, you always run the risk of something like this happening. To blame it on a program is just insane! It happens everywhere. More on the outside, then on the inside. We all know that.
Wasn't it a John Lennon lyric which said "Woman is the nigger of the world?"
Yet another instance in which he is wrong...
Children is the nigger.
Maybe if you bang her, she'd listen to you and you can tell her to shut up?
:P
I didn't make that comment because of CCM's contributions to the thread. It's when people started debating rape vs. consent and how if it's wrong, then it's rape even if the kid wanted to sleep with that person. I simply do not agree with that. It can be consensual and still be wrong.
Also, I will officially go on record as saying that I don't have a problem with CCM girl, and I never have. I may disagree with her on some points, but I don't have a problem with her.
Besides, like she would do what a guy orders her to do just because he banged her? She doesn't strike me as the wilting-flower doormat type who lets people treat her like crap, but I could be wrong.
After all, I don't know her, so I should probably not pretend to. :P
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CCM girl 1989
Mid Life Crisis Poster
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 1019
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:09 pm Post subject:
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A little history on me.........I was first sent away at the age of 12. I'll never forget the date 1-16-86. I was the youngest girl at the school. My first placement was called Heritage School for girls, located in Provo, Utah. Anyway, I was only supposed to be there for 1 year. 1 year came, and went.....I lost my only brother 6 months after I got there in a freak drowning accident. That was my first homevisit, was attending his funeral. I didn't go on many homevisits, 2-3 a year. I never got in any trouble when I went home, I did everything I could to prove to my parents I would be the perfect daughter, it didn't work. They were happy to have me gone, that way they could retire, and travel the world. Anyway, I went to my therapy sessions, and as time went on.......we all knew that I was going to be left to rot in these places till I turned 18 no matter how great I did. It was hard work to maintain the level system, to be perfect, to not get upset over my situation. I snapped after 3 years of this. I finally had the "fuck it attitude". I mean it didn't much matter if I were on S.S. (special status) or leval 4? I was determined to do whatever I wanted (like step outside onto the porch, you had to be on leval 2 for that!), to say whatever I wanted, to use the lords name in vain if I wanted. I just gave up, I tried to do the things the right way, and it didn't get me anywhere. I was angry, I was violent, I did things I know hurt people. I found out I was being shipped from one school to another, and I ran. I was gone for a week, and was captured to only have the one and only Karr Farnworth there to pick me up and take me to Cross Creek Manor, where I endured even more abuse. I spent almost a year there, before I ran from there too. This time for good, I never went back. That's it, just wanted you to know a little more about me.
CCM Girl ran from her final program at age 16. Age 16 is not the age of consent; and no mid-teen-age-girl can give "consent" to sexual activity with a staff member who has total legal control and power over her. Such sexual engagment is legally and morally wrong, even if the girl say "she liked it."
The negative posts to CCM Girl seem to have been made to her flipplant rermark; not to her situation.
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If that's what she said in the first place...
why does she act so differently now?
:wink:
Someone stole her name.
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This is what happened at MJ Ranch. The young girl is in love w/young staff. It's called transferrance(among other terms that might fit also). The staff needs to serve no less than 50 years in state prison for the violation of trust.
Staff is in a position to teach these young "miss guided" youth what is acceptable. The cover up that is happening is unexceptable.
The major problem is the troubled youth is a liar(?). Just what many of you on this thread are calling CCM girl. There have been so many "documented" lies that the staff will never be held accountable for taking advantage of an impressionable youth.
That's one for the GAO.
CCM Girl, I'm sorry for your experience. Don't let it stop the search for truth. We are all in this together. Blessings sent to you. You are not alone.
:cry:
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Inner quote from P. Rutter, remainder from an anonymous poster HERE (http://http://lists.topica.com/lists/elijaxonbear-gangajidisgraced/read/message.html?sort=&mid=913389104&start=7).
"...such relationships may have the effect of undermining the atmosphere of trust on which the educational process depends. Implicit in the idea of professionalism is the recognition by those in positions of authority that in their relationships with students there is always an element of power. It is incumbent upon those with authority not to abuse, nor seem to abuse, the power with which they are entrusted."
The gender relationship between student and teacher is itself a risk factor, just given the sheer probability of an erotic attraction. There are a number of factors that could reflect a psychological vulnerability on the part of the student, such as low self-esteem, a need for authority, a pattern of repeated victimization, or difficulties with a personal relationship. "Transference" issues can come up in a close mentoring relationship just as readily as in a therapeutic relationship. For example, a student may see her teacher as the kind of father she wished she had.
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Thank you Ursus for bringing that to the top.
It is incumbent upon those with authority not to abuse, nor seem to abuse, the power with which they are entrusted."
This is the guts of the GAO investigation. It is past time that regulation stating clearly what will happen to staff, administration and owner in the event this trust is violated.
I have been reading this forum for some time. I see alot of infighting. What do you believe you will achieve by this behavior?
I relate to what happened to CCM girl. MJR covered up multiple occurances of just what she is telling about. Calling her names, accusing her in the manner that has occurred here does not do anything but place blame on a young girl who needed mentoring and direction, NOT INSULT TO INJURY.
CCMGirl I envision that you search out the truth. Keep reading, keep learning don't let this thread determine one second of your life. You are not a victim today. Go forward and make a difference. There is a reason you experienced the events that happened.
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Go forward and make a difference. There is a reason you experienced the events that happened.
:roll:
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Thank you Ursus for bringing that to the top.
It is incumbent upon those with authority not to abuse, nor seem to abuse, the power with which they are entrusted."
This is the guts of the GAO investigation. It is past time that regulation stating clearly what will happen to staff, administration and owner in the event this trust is violated.
I have been reading this forum for some time. I see alot of infighting. What do you believe you will achieve by this behavior?
I relate to what happened to CCM girl. MJR covered up multiple occurances of just what she is telling about. Calling her names, accusing her in the manner that has occurred here does not do anything but place blame on a young girl who needed mentoring and direction, NOT INSULT TO INJURY.
CCMGirl I envision that you search out the truth. Keep reading, keep learning don't let this thread determine one second of your life. You are not a victim today. Go forward and make a difference. There is a reason you experienced the events that happened.
I am not a victim today, you are right. I am going forward, and making a difference. I know there was a reason I experienced the events that I did. And I don't care what some of these people have to say about me on here.
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Making a difference how?
All you do is attack and insult people who actually want to stop the abuse with nonsense like "WELL WE NEED SOME KIND OF PROGRAM" and "THEY'RE NOT ALL BAD"
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Making a difference how?
All you do is attack and insult people who actually want to stop the abuse with nonsense like "WELL WE NEED SOME KIND OF PROGRAM" and "THEY'RE NOT ALL BAD"
Look at what you are saying Niles. You take a few words from here, and there. Bunch them together, and try to create something that is in the end, just a bunch of horse shit!
I believe that not all programs are bad. I do believe that we need for good, safe programs to exist. I don't think, or believe they all need to be shut down.
I have a cousin of mine who should have been in a program a long time ago. But, he never was forced to go. He is 25 now. He has two kids, he has been a meth addict for 8 years, and before that he was a heavy pot smoker. He stole from us, he hurt our whole family, He refused our help. Finally, he has agreed to fly to Florida to enter treatment. He is 25, without even a GED. The only job he has ever held was that of drug dealer.
Had they gotten him help earlier, he wouldn't be gone. He would've never have agreed to treatment in his teens. He did not have a police record. My Aunt, and Uncle should have sent him away. I think they thought they could help him without having to place him. Well, I think they were wrong.
He is very lucky to be alive. We are all keeping our fingers crossed he enters into treatment November 1st. People need help. Yes, now he can decide to get help because he is an adult. It's his decision. But, his parents should have forced him to go before.
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And then have somebody who would have refused to get help on his own after his experience of "help".
A program could easily have poisoned him against the entire concept of rehab.
I'm just reminded of the girl who, right after leaving ASR or some similar hellhole, started doing cocaine the moment she got home.
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So, an anecdote about treatment means programs are not all bad, and are necessary?
Treatment that isn't in a program has existed for a long, long time. The problem with making treatment into a "program" has been stated so many times I'm really sick of it.
Treatment is treatment. A program is coercion, isolation, and forcing them to go through a level system and complete a bullshit curriculum in a bullshit environment of inmates having control over other inmates, fear, reprisal, and brainwashing to varying degrees.
ANY institution that uses ANY of what I talked about above is a PROGRAM, NOT A TREATMENT INSTITUTION.
Programs are NOT necessary, the rest of the world and the vast majority of the USA for that matter gets along fine without them, using actual treatment without mountains of non consensual, un-necessary bullshit along with them.
Perhaps what you define as a program and what I define as a program are two differing things. I have just stated what mine is. I have it that way because stating "a institution that is based off of unnecessary, nonconsensual, coercion, isolation, and forcing them to go through a level system and complete a bullshit curriculum in a bullshit environment of inmates having control over other inmates, fear, reprisal, and brainwashing to varying degrees" is too long winded for easy conversation.
Do you mean not all treatment institutions are bad? I agree. A PROGRAM is intrinsically bad and by fixing it it wouldn't be "A PROGRAM" anymore, and I'm done repeating this!
Your anecdote shows a necessity for TREATMENT, not for PROGRAMMING.
In conclusion, I'm going to go make some soup now.
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Treatment that isn't in a program has existed for a long, long time. The problem with making treatment into a "program" has been stated so many times I'm really sick of it.
Treatment is treatment. A program is coercion, isolation, and forcing them to go through a level system and complete a bullshit curriculum in a bullshit environment of inmates having control over other inmates, fear, reprisal, and brainwashing to varying degrees.
ANY institution that uses ANY of what I talked about above is a PROGRAM, NOT A TREATMENT INSTITUTION.
Any system that forces kids to go to school (public or private), isolating them into one building, dividing them up by last (like cattle), forcing them to go thru a level system like 3rd, 4th grade etc with the threat of staying back and repeating a level and not being able to get out until you reach level 12 or age out which ever comes first. Those god dam hall monitors, turning you in if you dare try to go to the bathroom without a pass. Forced to learn their bs curriculum. Fear reprisal, brainwashing to varying degrees.
They are all the same dam it, how many times do I need to explain this :
ANY institution that uses ANY of what I talked about above is a PROGRAM, NOT A TREATMENT INSTITUTION.
Dont make me bring out my monkey!!
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(http://http://a690.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/63/m_1ef76fe1d526b9d6675606f1064de6f1.jpg)
(http://http://a690.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/63/m_1ef76fe1d526b9d6675606f1064de6f1.jpg)
(http://http://a690.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/63/m_1ef76fe1d526b9d6675606f1064de6f1.jpg)
(http://http://a690.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/63/m_1ef76fe1d526b9d6675606f1064de6f1.jpg)
(http://http://a690.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/63/m_1ef76fe1d526b9d6675606f1064de6f1.jpg)
(http://http://a690.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/63/m_1ef76fe1d526b9d6675606f1064de6f1.jpg)
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Treatment that isn't in a program has existed for a long, long time. The problem with making treatment into a "program" has been stated so many times I'm really sick of it.
Treatment is treatment. A program is coercion, isolation, and forcing them to go through a level system and complete a bullshit curriculum in a bullshit environment of inmates having control over other inmates, fear, reprisal, and brainwashing to varying degrees.
ANY institution that uses ANY of what I talked about above is a PROGRAM, NOT A TREATMENT INSTITUTION.
Any system that forces kids to go to school (public or private), isolating them into one building, dividing them up by last (like cattle), forcing them to go thru a level system like 3rd, 4th grade etc with the threat of staying back and repeating a level and not being able to get out until you reach level 12 or age out which ever comes first. Those god dam hall monitors, turning you in if you dare try to go to the bathroom without a pass. Forced to learn their bs curriculum. Fear reprisal, brainwashing to varying degrees.
They are all the same dam it, how many times do I need to explain this :
ANY institution that uses ANY of what I talked about above is a PROGRAM, NOT A TREATMENT INSTITUTION.
Dont make me bring out my monkey!!
No.
(http://http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/3056/gorillastaresitwaityq1.jpg)
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Watching TheWho get more and more shrill would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
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I think it is much more Funny than pathetic!!
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So, an anecdote about treatment means programs are not all bad, and are necessary?
Treatment that isn't in a program has existed for a long, long time. The problem with making treatment into a "program" has been stated so many times I'm really sick of it.
Treatment is treatment. A program is coercion, isolation, and forcing them to go through a level system and complete a bullshit curriculum in a bullshit environment of inmates having control over other inmates, fear, reprisal, and brainwashing to varying degrees.
ANY institution that uses ANY of what I talked about above is a PROGRAM, NOT A TREATMENT INSTITUTION.
Programs are NOT necessary, the rest of the world and the vast majority of the USA for that matter gets along fine without them, using actual treatment without mountains of non consensual, un-necessary bullshit along with them.
Perhaps what you define as a program and what I define as a program are two differing things. I have just stated what mine is. I have it that way because stating "a institution that is based off of unnecessary, nonconsensual, coercion, isolation, and forcing them to go through a level system and complete a bullshit curriculum in a bullshit environment of inmates having control over other inmates, fear, reprisal, and brainwashing to varying degrees" is too long winded for easy conversation.
Do you mean not all treatment institutions are bad? I agree. A PROGRAM is intrinsically bad and by fixing it it wouldn't be "A PROGRAM" anymore, and I'm done repeating this!
Your anecdote shows a necessity for TREATMENT, not for PROGRAMMING.
In conclusion, I'm going to go make some soup now.
Bump.
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So, an anecdote about treatment means programs are not all bad, and are necessary?
Treatment that isn't in a program has existed for a long, long time. The problem with making treatment into a "program" has been stated so many times I'm really sick of it.
Treatment is treatment. A program is coercion, isolation, and forcing them to go through a level system and complete a bullshit curriculum in a bullshit environment of inmates having control over other inmates, fear, reprisal, and brainwashing to varying degrees.
ANY institution that uses ANY of what I talked about above is a PROGRAM, NOT A TREATMENT INSTITUTION.
Programs are NOT necessary, the rest of the world and the vast majority of the USA for that matter gets along fine without them, using actual treatment without mountains of non consensual, un-necessary bullshit along with them.
Perhaps what you define as a program and what I define as a program are two differing things. I have just stated what mine is. I have it that way because stating "a institution that is based off of unnecessary, nonconsensual, coercion, isolation, and forcing them to go through a level system and complete a bullshit curriculum in a bullshit environment of inmates having control over other inmates, fear, reprisal, and brainwashing to varying degrees" is too long winded for easy conversation.
Do you mean not all treatment institutions are bad? I agree. A PROGRAM is intrinsically bad and by fixing it it wouldn't be "A PROGRAM" anymore, and I'm done repeating this!
Your anecdote shows a necessity for TREATMENT, not for PROGRAMMING.
In conclusion, I'm going to go make some soup now.
Bump.
Get a fucking life freak.
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Treatment that isn't in a program has existed for a long, long time. The problem with making treatment into a "program" has been stated so many times I'm really sick of it.
Treatment is treatment. A program is coercion, isolation, and forcing them to go through a level system and complete a bullshit curriculum in a bullshit environment of inmates having control over other inmates, fear, reprisal, and brainwashing to varying degrees.
ANY institution that uses ANY of what I talked about above is a PROGRAM, NOT A TREATMENT INSTITUTION.
Any system that forces kids to go to school (public or private), isolating them into one building, dividing them up by last name (like cattle), forcing them to go thru a level system like 3rd, 4th grade etc with the threat of staying back and repeating a level and not being able to get out until you reach level 12 or age out which ever comes first. Those god dam hall monitors, turning you in if you dare try to go to the bathroom without a pass. Forced to learn their bs curriculum. Fear reprisal, brainwashing to varying degrees.
They are all the same dam it, how many times do I need to explain this :
ANY institution that uses ANY of what I talked about above is a PROGRAM, NOT A TREATMENT INSTITUTION.
Dont make me bring out my monkey!!
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CCM: there is a reason your cousin experienced the events he did. This is his fate. His parents did right not to interfere with events by forcing him into a program. He will henceforth go forward and make a difference.
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CCM: there is a reason your cousin experienced the events he did. This is his fate. His parents did right not to interfere with events by forcing him into a program. He will henceforth go forward and make a difference.
Are you high at this time? Do you realize he has been out of our lives for nearly 10 years. Has had 2 kids out of wedlock. Has people wanting to kill him? Are you out of your god damn mind?
Oh it's great that nobody took the bull by the horns when these problems started surfacing!
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Well if he is related to you, it would figure.
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And then have somebody who would have refused to get help on his own after his experience of "help".
A program could easily have poisoned him against the entire concept of rehab.
I'm just reminded of the girl who, right after leaving ASR or some similar hellhole, started doing cocaine the moment she got home.
yeah, it was TheWho's daughter. she went straight back to her "old" lifestyle (drinking and getting high) and cut him off from her life in the first week. way to go, girl!
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I am not a victim today, you are right. I am going forward, and making a difference. I know there was a reason I experienced the events that I did. And I don't care what some of these people have to say about me on here.
Now, now, my lil SweePee, why don't you come over here and sit on my lap and we'll go "forward" in this thing together, heh heh heh... You sound just like some of my more "special" students. Such feisty vigor! Such zest for life! Makes even an ole codger like me wanna get up and give it some of that good old school spirit! Go!! Go!! Go!!! Now!! Now!! Now!! Faster! Faster! Faster!!
Paternally,
Joseph W. Gauld, The Educator
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Well if he is related to you, it would figure.
Now, that's not very nice. I do believe that substance abuse runs in peoples family. We all have to be careful. I've had 3 people in my family become addicts of one kind or another. 2 outta the 3 pulled out of it, and cleaned up. 1 unfortunately died from the years of abuse, the other is doing extremely well, and the last one...well, we shall see he is due to turn himself in to treatment November 1st.
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I am not a victim today, you are right. I am going forward, and making a difference. I know there was a reason I experienced the events that I did. And I don't care what some of these people have to say about me on here.
Now, now, my lil SweePee, why don't you come over here and sit on my lap and we'll go "forward" in this thing together, heh heh heh... You sound just like some of my more "special" students. Such feisty vigor! Such zest for life! Makes even an ole codger like me wanna get up and give it some of that good old school spirit! Go!! Go!! Go!!! Now!! Now!! Now!! Faster! Faster! Faster!!
Paternally,
Joseph W. Gauld, The Educator
:rofl: ::bwahaha:: ::bwahaha2::
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Well if he is related to you, it would figure.
Now, that's not very nice. I do believe that substance abuse runs in peoples family. We all have to be careful. I've had 3 people in my family become addicts of one kind or another. 2 outta the 3 pulled out of it, and cleaned up. 1 unfortunately died from the years of abuse, the other is doing extremely well, and the last one...well, we shall see he is due to turn himself in to treatment November 1st.
No, that's not very nice. We were always very hard drinkers in my family, and I don't think its very funny when people joke about my kids being a bit on the short end of the logical thinking stick, just cause Blanche never did stop. Course that excuse -- that she never did stop -- did come in handy when I decided to develop some of my favorite gals' unique potential in new and experimental ways, har har!!
Speaking of unique potential, why don't you come over here and park that nice fanny on my lap, CCM girly girl, har har... I've still got a few things I can teach a festy lil whipper snapper such as yourself, heh heh heh!!
Philosophically,
Joseph W. Gauld, The Educator
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CCM girl 1989
Mid Life Crisis Poster
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 1019
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:09 pm Post subject:
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A little history on me.........I was first sent away at the age of 12. I'll never forget the date 1-16-86. I was the youngest girl at the school. My first placement was called Heritage School for girls, located in Provo, Utah. Anyway, I was only supposed to be there for 1 year. 1 year came, and went.....I lost my only brother 6 months after I got there in a freak drowning accident. That was my first homevisit, was attending his funeral. I didn't go on many homevisits, 2-3 a year. I never got in any trouble when I went home, I did everything I could to prove to my parents I would be the perfect daughter, it didn't work. They were happy to have me gone, that way they could retire, and travel the world. Anyway, I went to my therapy sessions, and as time went on.......we all knew that I was going to be left to rot in these places till I turned 18 no matter how great I did. It was hard work to maintain the level system, to be perfect, to not get upset over my situation. I snapped after 3 years of this. I finally had the "fuck it attitude". I mean it didn't much matter if I were on S.S. (special status) or leval 4? I was determined to do whatever I wanted (like step outside onto the porch, you had to be on leval 2 for that!), to say whatever I wanted, to use the lords name in vain if I wanted. I just gave up, I tried to do the things the right way, and it didn't get me anywhere. I was angry, I was violent, I did things I know hurt people. I found out I was being shipped from one school to another, and I ran. I was gone for a week, and was captured to only have the one and only Karr Farnworth there to pick me up and take me to Cross Creek Manor, where I endured even more abuse. I spent almost a year there, before I ran from there too. This time for good, I never went back. That's it, just wanted you to know a little more about me.
CCM Girl ran from her final program at age 16. Age 16 is not the age of consent; and no mid-teen-age-girl can give "consent" to sexual activity with a staff member who has total legal control and power over her. Such sexual engagment is legally and morally wrong, even if the girl say "she liked it."
The negative posts to CCM Girl seem to have been made to her flipplant rermark; not to her situation.
^^^^^^^^
What they said.
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While, I am sure I wrote that (or most of it). I don't know why I would have put at the end, where I endured even more abuse (Heritage was not abusive, survival yes, Orem Psych Hospital no)? I'm not sure I would consider my stay at CCM abusive? I think it was more emotional then anything. I did say a male houseparent dragged me into the common area in front of everyone by my legs, and took me by my ankles, hoisted me up like a Marlin fish, and started kicking me. I can't remember if it's because I called his wife a bitch, or I spit in her face, I really can't remember?
He was terminated immediately, along with his wife.
There was a male houseparent that was found to be touching me, and he was immediately fired too, along with his wife.
So, it's not like they just sat back, and let children be abused?
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While, I am sure I wrote that (or most of it). I don't know why I would have put at the end, where I endured even more abuse (Heritage was not abusive, survival yes, Orem Psych Hospital no)? I'm not sure I would consider my stay at CCM abusive? I think it was more emotional then anything. I did say a male houseparent dragged me into the common area in front of everyone by my legs, and took me by my ankles, hoisted me up like a Marlin fish, and started kicking me. I can't remember if it's because I called his wife a bitch, or I spit in her face, I really can't remember?
He was terminated immediately, along with his wife.
There was a male houseparent that was found to be touching me, and he was immediately fired too, along with his wife.
So, it's not like they just sat back, and let children be abused?
Nah, they just created the environment where it was bound to happen.
Stanford Prison Experiment.
http://www.prisonexp.org/ (http://www.prisonexp.org/)
Forced or coerced treatment IS abusive. Its an invasion of the mind, body and soul. And giving anyone that much power and control over kids is dangerous. There's no getting around or justifying or explaining that away.
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CCM girl 1989
Mid Life Crisis Poster
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 1062
Posted: 23 Oct 2007 19:05 Post subject:
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Does it count if you enjoyed it?!!
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Don't let the trolls of fornits break your spirit, can't you see they want control!!!
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CCM Girl's flippant remark about sexual abuse in programs.
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CCM girl 1989
Mid Life Crisis Poster
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 1062
Posted: 23 Oct 2007 19:05 Post subject:
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Does it count if you enjoyed it?!!
_________________
Don't let the trolls of fornits break your spirit, can't you see they want control!!!
Back to top
CCM Girl's flippant remark about sexual abuse in programs.
That's the one that got to me, especially in the context of the conversation. Of course I'm aware that not all sexual experiences inside program are abusive, but sex between staff and student, no matter how hot he is or how much she wants it too is wrong. Its abuse of power. Some people were horribly scarred by the sexual abuse they endured inside and for that comment to come out right on the heels of those people was..... insensitive to say the least.
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While, I am sure I wrote that (or most of it). I don't know why I would have put at the end, where I endured even more abuse (Heritage was not abusive, survival yes, Orem Psych Hospital no)? I'm not sure I would consider my stay at CCM abusive? I think it was more emotional then anything. I did say a male houseparent dragged me into the common area in front of everyone by my legs, and took me by my ankles, hoisted me up like a Marlin fish, and started kicking me. I can't remember if it's because I called his wife a bitch, or I spit in her face, I really can't remember?
He was terminated immediately, along with his wife.
There was a male houseparent that was found to be touching me, and he was immediately fired too, along with his wife.
So, it's not like they just sat back, and let children be abused?
Nah, they just created the environment where it was bound to happen.
Stanford Prison Experiment.
http://www.prisonexp.org/ (http://www.prisonexp.org/)
Forced or coerced treatment IS abusive. Its an invasion of the mind, body and soul. And giving anyone that much power and control over kids is dangerous. There's no getting around or justifying or explaining that away.
I started reading around the Stanford site a little more. I haven't read it in a while. Very interesting stuff, especially The Lucifer Effect.
http://www.lucifereffect.com/ (http://www.lucifereffect.com/)
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I started reading around the Stanford site a little more. I haven't read it in a while. Very interesting stuff, especially The Lucifer Effect.
http://www.lucifereffect.com/ (http://www.lucifereffect.com/)
How about the Milgrim experiments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment)) & all the fascist thinking they spawned - the supposed changes in personality - there was also an experiment involving prisoners called the Stanford prison experiment - pretty chilling -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment)
CCM girl just sounds disturbed in alot of ways, not because she's so pro-program but because she's indifferent to the suffering of the others. Someone who is not indifferent like her, is not on a quasi-crusade to show the "good" programs. But the fact is she's oblivious to the bad ones and basically on a mission to preach 'the truth" definitely shows something about her intentions here. She's not here as a supporter, but as a diametric opposer.
& the sexual comments are so off-base I really have to wonder about her. The power differential between staff and client are so enormously different, I would hardly say it was consensual in any sense of the word. From those statements alone, I'd say she's twisted or entirely oblivious to the didactics of being an inmate.
In other words, she's prolly a real twat.
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Try signing in next time.
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I started reading around the Stanford site a little more. I haven't read it in a while. Very interesting stuff, especially The Lucifer Effect.
http://www.lucifereffect.com/ (http://www.lucifereffect.com/)
How about the Milgrim experiments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment)) & all the fascist thinking they spawned - the supposed changes in personality - there was also an experiment involving prisoners called the Stanford prison experiment - pretty chilling -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment)
CCM girl just sounds disturbed in alot of ways, not because she's so pro-program but because she's indifferent to the suffering of the others. Someone who is not indifferent like her, is not on a quasi-crusade to show the "good" programs. But the fact is she's oblivious to the bad ones and basically on a mission to preach 'the truth" definitely shows something about her intentions here. She's not here as a supporter, but as a diametric opposer.
& the sexual comments are so off-base I really have to wonder about her. The power differential between staff and client are so enormously different, I would hardly say it was consensual in any sense of the word. From those statements alone, I'd say she's twisted or entirely oblivious to the didactics of being an inmate.
In other words, she's prolly a real twat.
Why do you have to judge people at all? I have read the posts and there is no crusade to show good programs. This girl is giving her side of it and how she lived it. There are people who tell of their bad experiences, should we judge them just as harshly and say they are oblivious to the "Good" ones?
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I started reading around the Stanford site a little more. I haven't read it in a while. Very interesting stuff, especially The Lucifer Effect.
http://www.lucifereffect.com/ (http://www.lucifereffect.com/)
How about the Milgrim experiments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment)) & all the fascist thinking they spawned - the supposed changes in personality - there was also an experiment involving prisoners called the Stanford prison experiment - pretty chilling -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment)
Yeah, I think I linked to Stanford above. Ah well, here it is again....
http://www.prisonexp.org/ (http://www.prisonexp.org/)
CCM girl just sounds disturbed in alot of ways, not because she's so pro-program but because she's indifferent to the suffering of the others. Someone who is not indifferent like her, is not on a quasi-crusade to show the "good" programs. But the fact is she's oblivious to the bad ones and basically on a mission to preach 'the truth" definitely shows something about her intentions here. She's not here as a supporter, but as a diametric opposer.
I just think she's still a bit washed. No real mystery.
. The power differential between staff and client are so enormously different, I would hardly say it was consensual in any sense of the word.
Yep
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Why do you have to judge people at all? I have read the posts and there is no crusade to show good programs. This girl is giving her side of it and how she lived it. There are people who tell of their bad experiences, should we judge them just as harshly and say they are oblivious to the "Good" ones?
Try signing in next time.
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Sorry, Anne - I didn't see your link - as you said once before, same shit - different wrapper.
I think that is my problem, the idea (the very warped idea) of sex between staff and client. OK, it's not a "rape" in the purest sense of the word, but you are freaking being held against your will and not free to leave in most cases, so how the hell can you consent to sex? That's what child molesters say, well, little susie said she wanted to, so she consented. Even if you were the legal age of consent, it still would not be consensual for the same reasons prison wardens can't have sex with the inmates. This is not even a debate. It's common sense, which CCM appears to have very little of.
I don't need to sign in - why does it bother you so much I'm anonymous - so you can't flame me personally? Hmmmmm.
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Why do you have to judge people at all? I have read the posts and there is no crusade to show good programs. This girl is giving her side of it and how she lived it. There are people who tell of their bad experiences, should we judge them just as harshly and say they are oblivious to the "Good" ones?
Try signing in next time.
If I do will you stop judging people?.
I'll think about it.
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From: CCM girl 1989
To: Botched Programming
Posted: 30 Oct 2007 18:19
Subject: Thanks!
I don't appreciate you getting into my account. Don't you have anything better to do?
_________________
Don't let the trolls of fornits break your spirit, can't you see they want control!!!
__________________________________________________
I've got a little news for you. I'm not the one altering you post.. Do us all a favor. Please ensure that your brain is engaged before putting your mouth in gear.
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CCM girl 1989
Mid Life Crisis Poster
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 1062
Posted: 23 Oct 2007 19:05 Post subject:
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Does it count if you enjoyed it?!!
_________________
Don't let the trolls of fornits break your spirit, can't you see they want control!!!
Back to top
CCM Girl's flippant remark about sexual abuse in programs.
That's the one that got to me, especially in the context of the conversation. Of course I'm aware that not all sexual experiences inside program are abusive, but sex between staff and student, no matter how hot he is or how much she wants it too is wrong. Its abuse of power. Some people were horribly scarred by the sexual abuse they endured inside and for that comment to come out right on the heels of those people was..... insensitive to say the least.
Let add abuse from oldcomers and other staff/students to that abuse of power dynamic. And CCM not abusive, what?!@? Are you just trying to prove something? It's hard to take you seriously when you make statements like "Does it count if you enjoyed it?!!" and your various comments about survivors just playing the victim card. I don't doubt your belief about your experience, but it all sounds like abuse to me.
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CCM girl 1989
Mid Life Crisis Poster
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 1019
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:09 pm Post subject:
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A little history on me.........I was first sent away at the age of 12. I'll never forget the date 1-16-86. I was the youngest girl at the school. My first placement was called Heritage School for girls, located in Provo, Utah. Anyway, I was only supposed to be there for 1 year. 1 year came, and went.....I lost my only brother 6 months after I got there in a freak drowning accident. That was my first homevisit, was attending his funeral. I didn't go on many homevisits, 2-3 a year. I never got in any trouble when I went home, I did everything I could to prove to my parents I would be the perfect daughter, it didn't work. They were happy to have me gone, that way they could retire, and travel the world. Anyway, I went to my therapy sessions, and as time went on.......we all knew that I was going to be left to rot in these places till I turned 18 no matter how great I did. It was hard work to maintain the level system, to be perfect, to not get upset over my situation. I snapped after 3 years of this. I finally had the "fuck it attitude". I mean it didn't much matter if I were on S.S. (special status) or leval 4? I was determined to do whatever I wanted (like step outside onto the porch, you had to be on leval 2 for that!), to say whatever I wanted, to use the lords name in vain if I wanted. I just gave up, I tried to do the things the right way, and it didn't get me anywhere. I was angry, I was violent, I did things I know hurt people. I found out I was being shipped from one school to another, and I ran. I was gone for a week, and was captured to only have the one and only Karr Farnworth there to pick me up and take me to Cross Creek Manor, where I endured even more abuse. I spent almost a year there, before I ran from there too. This time for good, I never went back. That's it, just wanted you to know a little more about me.
CCM Girl ran from her final program at age 16. Age 16 is not the age of consent; and no mid-teen-age-girl can give "consent" to sexual activity with a staff member who has total legal control and power over her. Such sexual engagment is legally and morally wrong, even if the girl say "she liked it."
The negative posts to CCM Girl seem to have been made to her flipplant rermark; not to her situation.
Well....I don't know. What say you about a 16 yr old boy screwing a 20 yr old woman? Is it wrong then, or just hot?
All relationships within the confines of programs are abusive, and in that way, sexual relationships within these programs are abusive. But, I don't think that a relationship that a teen girl/boy initiates with the aim of satisfying a sexual urge, is sexual abuse, anymore than a prisoner having sex with a guard is sexual abuse. It's the situation that’s abusive, not the relationship, necessarily. Does that make any sense? It’s certainly not “sexual abuseâ€
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We are talking about a complicated, contextual, matter. Blanket statements like all teen/adult sex is inherently sexual abuse of the minor are oversimplifications, perhaps. And, having the opinion that it’s wrong but not sexual abuse, isn’t flippant or belittling to anyone
I would say though that 'consenting' teen/adult sex in a programme is definitely abuse of status. Whilst I wouldn't call it rape I sure wouldn't object to the person being immediately fired and brought up on criminal charges.
It still brings the ultimate question to mind.. did the girl or boy consent to get laid.. or did they consent because they were worried about the long term hassle of saying no?
Without a doubt.. Sex doesn't belong in the confines of any sort of treatment facility between staff and client.
Now a 16 year old on the street.. that is an entirely different story.
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One of the problems is you are mixing an abuse of power with sexual relations. And that is what rape is at the core of it. People who rape do not rape primarily for the sexual release, but for the (twisted) affirmation they get from rendering someone else powerless to their will. What is so sick about it is that this (authentic as opposed to play) degradation of another human being is tied up with the ability to ejaculate.
There is a gray area of what actually constitutes "rape" in most people's minds regarding what motions and machinations the bodies and minds affected actually go through in said event. And hence there is a lot of debate about definitions. It is less gray in the Psychological and Psychiatric fields, but here also, there have been enough changes in policy over the years to indicate that understanding of this area of human experience is still evolving. Keep in mind that these fields are notoriously paternalistic.
Even leaving interpretation up to the person most affected negatively is still an incomplete picture. Because people's understanding of what they went through evolves and changes over time and acquired maturity, and is, moreover, heavily influenced by the group mindset or the relationship they are in at the moment, or have been in the recent past. You could well say their minds have been fucked over doubly, as well, when you are talking about someone who has not reached the age of consent yet. I don't really care about where people think they are at... There are physiological changes that still occur in the development of the human brain up through one's late teens, with some subtler changes not occurring until people are in their late twenties. You don't think there are psychological counterparts still underway whilst the physical blueprint is still being mapped out?
One of the reasons that rape is so traumatic to its victims is that one's sexual identity is dealt one hell of a clobber, and some of these said victims never quite recover from that blow. By "sexual identity" I am not talking about whether you identify yourself as heterosexual or homosexual or man or woman or any of the increasing alternatives in between, but rather how you see yourself as one soul in the cosmos on your chosen ventures of sexual or other joy, and whether you like yourself and have respect for yourself or not. Some rape victims find they just can not live inside their skin anymore after such an experience. Their self-concept was not strong enough, or not developed enough before that trauma. Hence, so many suicide attempts, usually years later.
Anyway, back to the original issue of the mixing abuse of power with sexual relations. There are well-founded reasons that sexual relations between adult and minor, guard and inmate, therapist and patient, teacher and student, etc. etc. etc. is against the law, and those reasons have been well understood, or at the least reasonably well accredited, for decades and decades.
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But I'll be damned if I didn't wanna nail certain female staff members. Fuck yeah!! Some of those sexxy bitches could really get my fucking blood boiling!!!
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Do I... *crackle*... know you, STB?
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:rofl:
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But I'll be damned if I didn't wanna nail certain female staff members. Fuck yeah!! Those sexxy bitches could sure get my blood boiling!!!
I hear ya!