Isabelle Zehnder exposed for who she is. Proof she refers to Specific Escort services. Proof she refers to PURE.
Send Legal threats here please: http://thepiratebay.org/legal (http://thepiratebay.org/legal)
P.S. don't fuck with anonymous.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 05, 2007, 07:52:08 PM
"Only torrent files are saved at the server. That means no copyrighted and/or illegal material are stored by us. It is therefore not possible to hold the people behind The Pirate Bay responsible for the material that is being spread using the tracker. Any complaints from copyright and/or lobby organizations will be ridiculed and published at the site.
The Pirate Bay was started by the swedish anti copyright organization Piratbyrån in the late 2003, but is since October 2004 separated and run by dedicated individuals. Using the site is free of charge, but since running it costs money, donations are very much appreciated."
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Nihilanthic on June 05, 2007, 07:52:16 PM
I was going to post something longwinded, but I realized, why bother?
We all suspected this shit for a long time. Now we know.
:roll: Wolf in sheeps clothing, complete with pushing her own LGAT "coaching"!
:rofl: Shall I ready the batons, my good sir of liberty?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 05, 2007, 07:55:19 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
:rofl: Shall I ready the batons, my good sir of liberty?
Are they the retractable variety ?!??! :o
Edit: I sure hope nobody re-posts that here so people who can't figure out bittorrent can read the letter.
Also: this is another good option I suggest to whoever posted this: http://freenetproject.org/papers/freenet-ieee.pdf (http://freenetproject.org/papers/freenet-ieee.pdf)
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 05, 2007, 09:08:11 PM
We just got off the phone so you know the person to contact is James. His direct number is 435-229-9378. The main number at Sunrise Adolescent Transport is 435-673-3202.
The person to contact re the programs is Sue at 954-349-7260. She is aware of the situation so just let her know I sent you to her. I normally don't give out her direct, home phone number but she said OK. She has over 7 years experience helping families so I feel confident she'll steer us in the right direction, if we need to go that direction.
Here's a link to my website regarding coaching in case you want to go that route: www.positivefamilysolutions.com (http://www.positivefamilysolutions.com). Please let the family know I am available to talk with Jason soon after they pick him up from TB. Often it is beneficial for me to talk to the child to let them know what is happening and why. The kids trust me once they know who I am and what I do.
If you would like to help CAICA by making a donation, please go to www.caica.org (http://www.caica.org) and click on the Visa/MasterCard Donate button. We'd really appreciate it!
Talk to you soon, Isabelle
--
Together we can - and do - make a difference!
Isabelle Zehnder Founder and President Coalition Against Institutionalized Child Abuse (CAICA) www.caica.org (http://www.caica.org)
"Parents and Teens Unite" C.E.O., Founder, Coach Positive Family Solutions, LLC www.positivefamilysolutions.com (http://www.positivefamilysolutions.com)
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 05, 2007, 09:08:38 PM
Can somebody post it on youtube I am not allowed to download to my computer.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 05, 2007, 09:14:22 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Can somebody post it on youtube I am not allowed to download to my computer.
it's just an email. Torrent can be used to distribute more than just music and movies.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 05, 2007, 09:15:38 PM
Oh. I was expecting a movie expose or something. So what's this email all about then?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 05, 2007, 09:46:18 PM
Please tell me it isnt so....
CAICA :o ? The advocate? Do you mean she is refering people to escort services AND to Sue Scheff who refers to ABUSIVE programs? This email tells me she has asked "Patti" to contact Sue to find a new program for her child AFTER she pulls them out of Tranquility Bay? If not, she can use her "coaching services?" ... and by the way.. please donate to CIACA.
She hit that woman up for $$ 4 times in one email. Pretty bold. I wonder what her cut of it is!!!
Isabelle, it is disappointing to see that you saw the $$ signs and sold out. You could have done good work.
Such a tangeled web we weave when we practice to decieve.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 05, 2007, 09:49:14 PM
Quote
The person to contact re the programs is Sue at 954-349-7260. She is aware of the situation so just let her know I sent you to her. I normally don't give out her direct, home phone number but she said OK.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 05, 2007, 09:51:31 PM
I am going to sign up and have her coach me.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 05, 2007, 09:52:13 PM
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Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 05, 2007, 09:53:29 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
The person to contact re the programs is Sue at 954-349-7260. She is aware of the situation so just let her know I sent you to her. I normally don't give out her direct, home phone number but she said OK.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Gentlemen. Let's be polite and avoid calling at ungodly hours of the morning or otherwise crank-call, harass, or generally piss off this wonderful woman who has given so many kids so much "help".
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 05, 2007, 09:54:07 PM
WHAT A FEW OTHERS HAD TO SAY ABOUT ISABELLE:
"Your insight is empowering. I had no idea this industry (behavioral boarding schools ect.) even existed until I recently started looking for help for my daughter. I would be "very" interested in your service to help us to communicate better. I do feel as though most of our problems are based on lack of communication."
She then wrote: "It was really great talking to you! You have helped put things into perspective for me. It is a very difficult decision but knowing that there are people like you out there who only have the kids best interest at heart takes away the fear of the unknown about programs & the process. And reminding me to take a deep breath & not make rash decisions was just what I needed to hear & I am following your advise. You were very instrumental in getting me thru probably the most difficult time I have had as a parent & I will always be grateful that our paths crossed. It would have been so sad if I sent her to a boarding school & lost this time with her."
- Suzanne (hmm.. couldn't be sue could it? lol) Mom
* * *
"Isabelle Zehnder has devoted many years, time, energy and support to helping families that have suffered the ultimate loss of a child. She grew her organization to create one of the most comprehensive websites of information regarding children and families. I am proud to be her friend and colleague in an industry that can be not only confusing but scary if you are in a desperate situation. Isabelle will go over and above to help parents that call her and kids that need an ear to vent to.
Isabelle Zehnder deserves the top recommendation in my book." Sue Scheff PURE www.helpyourteens.com (http://www.helpyourteens.com) (hmm)
* * *
Hi Isabelle!
The earth needs more people like you, it'd be a much better place! I'm so glad we got to actually meet!!
Love you! Sandy
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 05, 2007, 09:59:49 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
The person to contact re the programs is Sue at 954-349-7260. She is aware of the situation so just let her know I sent you to her. I normally don't give out her direct, home phone number but she said OK.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Gentlemen. Let's be polite and avoid calling at ungodly hours of the morning or otherwise crank-call, harass, or generally piss off this wonderful woman who has given so many kids so much "help".
Don't worry nobody will call. That's the funny thing about fornits. People think that program survivors are bunch of whacked out weirdos. That's why Izzy and Co. do so well, because they stand on the backs of the one's who buy the line they are damaged and in need of help to redeem their self worth. Or even worse that the burden is on them, the victim, to do something about the crime committed upon them. This forum and others are full of these people ready to exploit anyone gullible enough to think they care about them, and not just the gory details of their story.. for whatever agenda it might be. So really, whomever posted this phone number if their intent or idea is that oh that bunch of fucking crazies at fornits will call this bitch all the time and harass her and do my dirty work for me, you are wrong. The reason the posts seem crazy is cuz a bunch of crazy shit happened to people, not the other way around. Funny thing is its the people doing the crazy who really want to harvest the result of this crazy if you know what I mean and catch my drift oh yeah its wafting heavy now I bet right. Nobody here is crazy to assume so is naive. The assumption that disgruntled former program kids will do the dirty work of people with unknown agendas is just plain gross...
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 05, 2007, 10:26:33 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This forum and others are full of these people ready to exploit anyone gullible enough to think they care about them, and not just the gory details of their story.. for whatever agenda it might be.
Izzy.. or is it sue?
Quote
The assumption that disgruntled former program kids will do the dirty work of people with unknown agendas is just plain gross...
I totally agree.
Please underestimate me. Label me a "disgruntled former program kid". Please assume I am lead by the nose by those who take advantage of me. Please assume I am naive. Please assume I am powerless. Please try and take advantage of my gullability.
I will enjoy destroying you.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 05, 2007, 11:07:57 PM
I called her.
Went something like this,
Sue: Hello? (tired sounding likes he was in bed) Me: Hi, um, is this Sue Scheff? Sue: Yes, how can I help you ma'am? Me: I am calling on behalf of my daughter... Sue: Oh yes that's right, Izzy told me about you. We have a place just right for her. Me: Oh that's great Sue, you are so wonderful... Sue: I know. I just want to help other parents like me, I have a daughter too. Me: That is why I trust you so much! Sue: You are so kind, you will really enjoy your new daughter once she is fixed. Me: I can't wait. You are the shit Sue. I want to ask you something personal, is that okay? Sue: Sure... I guess... Me: Do you wear granny panties or a more sleek and sexy bikini type underwear? Sue: What? I have never! How dare you ask such a thing! Me: Touch your nipple and tell me if it's hard.
Click.
Oh well, always tomorrow night....
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 05, 2007, 11:31:36 PM
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 05, 2007, 11:38:36 PM
Now I am more confused than ever, Isabelle. (sarcasm intended)
What happened to the so-called report you were writing for Congressman Miller? At least this was your claim when you first called me last year.
What is your title exactly?? How many hats are you wearing these days? Child Advocate, Parent Consultant, Family Coach, Referral Agent, Founder of an "invisible" Association?
It seems like contradiction is in your blood. I spotted this same contradiction the first time I visited the not so P.U.R.E. website. I asked Sue three legitimate questions that I felt deserved an answer. It's called FULL DISCLOSURE. Instead, all I got was "people don't understand me."
ONE of my questions to Sue Scheff (PURE) was:
"Are you a Child Advocate, or a Referral Agency? I don't feel a "TRUE" Child Advocate can be both.
Isabelle, I feel that you and Sue are giving parents a "false" sense of security while you both continue to proclaim the abuses in this dysfunctional industry to the world, (WWASP, WWASP, WWASP, only), while on the other hand, you are both referring desperate parents to an unregulated, out-of-control, "troubled industry."
You can't have it both ways!
It's bad enough that we've had to fight this "troubled industry" over their long talked about controversy. Now we are up against the controversy amongst the "TRUE" Child Advocates and the "FALSE" Child Advocates.
How sad for the kids!
Michelle Sutton Memorial Fund, Inc. Catherine Sutton
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 12:12:34 AM
So who owns or operates this Sunrise Adolescent Transport company?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 12:16:28 AM
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 12:19:46 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
So who owns or operates this Sunrise Adolescent Transport company?
Are transporters licensed in Utah?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: hanzomon4 on June 06, 2007, 12:25:39 AM
Is anyone surprised? The number is the same number listed on the SUE site, which, of course, is of the devil.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 12:35:38 AM
What number?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: hanzomon4 on June 06, 2007, 12:44:58 AM
The number listed as Sue's direct home number in the email.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 12:49:22 AM
The person to contact re the programs is Sue at 954-349-7260. She is aware of the situation so just let her know I sent you to her. I normally don't give out her direct, home phone number but she said OK.
She has over 7 years experience helping families so I feel confident she'll steer us in the right direction, if we need to go that direction.
On PURE website:
Local and International Callers please Call: 954-349-7260
---------
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 01:03:37 AM
Oh brother - teen drinking = coaching?
What's next? teen sex? goth? rock and roll? listening to Space Cookies music?
Sorry, this just reminds me of the WWASPS "magical child" bullshit seminars. Not evidence-based treatment, in other words. Isabelle has no credentials in adolescent behavioral healthcare. :roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 06, 2007, 01:04:09 AM
The escort's phone number reverse lookups to ST. GEORGE UTAH...
Oh now sue... You didn't.... Izzy... Shame on you... I am so utterly shocked beyond belief. I am sitting here ... wow. I'm just stunned you could even consider doing such a thing.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 01:07:17 AM
Sunrise Adolescent Transport is in St. George? I am curious who owns this company? Anybody know?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 06, 2007, 01:31:52 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Oh brother - teen drinking = coaching?
What's next? teen sex? goth? rock and roll? listening to Space Cookies music?
Now don't forget friends how "Good Christian" (TM) Sue sent her own daughter to program to save her from that horrible Wicca cult. Why.. she might of just sprouted a broomstick and started casting spells on Poor Sue. We can't have that. Could you imagine a Poor Sue Voodoo doll. Her poor daughter needed to be taught the dangers of such things to Poor Sue. Why Poor Sue could have just burst into flames.. or her head could start spinning around... who knows .. maybe even stabbing herself with a crucifix in the... nevermind.. if you've seen the Uncut Exorist you know what I mean. ("I love you lord.... ") All "Good Christians" (TM) know that an ancient religion, predating Christianity, in which the one commandment is not to harm others... could only have come from the bowels of that bad bad place... maybe Fornits! How is she supposed to learn religious tolerance there? After all, it's full of nothing but people who failed to find the one true way of god handed down by the Holy Sudweeks... Holy Holy Holy... Worship the holy child abu... er... lovers! God how are they persecuted by the evil liberal governments in Canada, Mexico, and Utah... Lord let us lift up our hands in prayer for our Sue Sheff.. she is so holy.. so wonderful. so PURE.. speaking CACA to the masses. I loving love her... Oh.. Love Love.. I hope she loving ... loves... lovefully... in a wonderful ball of love... where she will .. love... for eternity in a pit of love with all her loving friends.
::ftard::
SOrry... sleep deprived here. lol. Last post I swear before i hit the sac.. as it is i'll get 6 hours. Summer school is wonderful.
Quote
Sorry, this just reminds me of the WWASPS "magical child" bullshit seminars.
REALLY? I see nothing of the sort? evidence? What evidence? It's evidence based.. isn't it. Trial and error is evidence right? That counts doesn't it?!?!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 01:35:29 AM
Lots of these programs ARE IN UTAH. Have Sunrise Adolescent Transport show up, haul the kid out of his/her house, "escort" the kid to the program in UTAH, and the Escorter is already right back at HOME. What a deal !!!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 06, 2007, 01:42:05 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Sunrise Adolescent Transport is in St. George? I am curious who owns this company? Anybody know?
I've been looking for that since I saw this email... No web hits anywhere.
Hey... didn't Sue^2 live in Sunrise, Florida?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 01:56:26 AM
Err ... I had no idea Izzy was so handsome, or even a guy.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 06, 2007, 01:56:47 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Lots of these programs ARE IN UTAH.
Because the Lichfield family donates more money than any other entity in Utah (afaik), they are able to wield a great deal of influence over the legislature in general.. And now that Romney is running, Good ol Lich is raising money for a future FEDERAL level "investment". Maybe a cabinet position as a reward... with convenient local access to lobbyists just a few blocks down on K street. How does Secretary of education sound? I can see NATSAP rejoicing.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 02:00:17 AM
She has been promoted to CEO. I wonder what it must be like living in Isabelle Zehnders head. She has created a little corporate world that only she lives in. Do you think she was looking in the mirror one morning while tweezing her stache.. and said.. I think its time for raise and promotion... . I NAME YOU QUEEN OF UTOPIA. Wait.. I went to far... I AM CEO.. ... AND FOUNDER OF A POSITIVE FAMILY SOLUTIONS! Then she kicks the dog on the way to grab a glass of cookies and milk and yells at her kids to shut the trailer door.
Sadly, I don't think I am to far off.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 04:05:25 AM
Then perhaps Izzy has the nerve to ask the dog for a "donation" to CAICA after she kicks it?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 04:09:26 AM
Who might this Julie Thompson at Sunrise Adolescent Transport be? And, who is the James that Isabelle Zehnder refers to in her email at Sunrise? Does Sunrise has a business license in St. George, Utah? Surely Isabelle Zehnder is at least referring to a licensed teen transport company, right?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 05:03:06 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Then perhaps Izzy has the nerve to ask the dog for a "donation" to CAICA after she kicks it?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 10:40:17 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Who might this Julie Thompson at Sunrise Adolescent Transport be? And, who is the James that Isabelle Zehnder refers to in her email at Sunrise? Does Sunrise has a business license in St. George, Utah? Surely Isabelle Zehnder is at least referring to a licensed teen transport company, right?
Is there some way to determine if this company even exists, and if so, is licensed? I also got no web-hits using several search engines.
Deborah (of Fornits) you out there? Help?!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 11:25:40 AM
Nothing listed in the business directory at utah.gov for Sunrise A Transp.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 12:26:40 PM
Could this Sunrise Adolescent Transport company be owned by out-of-state owners---who might have an interest in the teen transport business; like perhaps a referral company.....or a coaching company; someone who might be making money from "troubled teens" and needs them escorted/transported to programs?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 12:29:14 PM
Why would Nick (Over the GW) even consider working with this woman on any project?
Obviously, he doesn't need her support to promote his movie or his career.
This reminds me of Space Cookies, the band started by ex-WWASPS kids. Seems she was all over them like white on rice. They are just kids, don't really understand how the advocacy movement has been corrupted.
THey (Space Cookies) think it is the Republicans who caused the TB documentary to be permanently banned in the US. This is not true.
In fact, according to the producer, the real issue is the so-called advocates who were involved as "characters" in the documentary are bickering. Check out the Fornits PURE and CAICA Forum. The producer posted there, obviously very frustrated, if not thoroughly disgusted.
Run Nick, do not walk! There are many people with credibility who would be more than glad to help you on any future projects. CAICA is a one-man-band and as pointed out earlier, on ISAC's watchlist, along with PURE.
Congratulations again on your excellent movie! Looking forward to seeing it!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 06, 2007, 12:30:27 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Could this Sunrise Adolescent Transport company be owned by out-of-state owners---who might have an interest in the teen transport business; like perhaps a referral company.....or a coaching company; someone who might be making money from "troubled teens" and needs them escorted/transported to programs?
Or take them to be "coached" perhaps? That is speculation, not accusation Shamoo.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 12:36:34 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Could this Sunrise Adolescent Transport company be owned by out-of-state owners---who might have an interest in the teen transport business; like perhaps a referral company.....or a coaching company; someone who might be making money from "troubled teens" and needs them escorted/transported to programs?
Sure, seems to me anything is possible in this UNREGULATED industry.
Many programs have their own in-house transport companies.
Smaller outfits have been known to do their own tranports (like North Star).
The WWASPS independent referral agency in Florida run by Lyn Pretzfield, she was using her son if I recall, to transport kids.
Not sure if she is still in the biz. Would have to check.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 12:47:46 PM
Why would Isabelle refer to PURE, who refers to programs who pay Scheff for sales leads (referrals) that result in a placement?
Can you say CONFLICT OF INTEREST?
Something stinks here, IMO.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 06, 2007, 12:49:16 PM
Quote
Run Nick, do not walk! There are many people with credibility who would be more than glad to help you on any future projects. CAICA is a one-man-band and as pointed out earlier, on ISAC's watchlist, along with PURE.
I would be very saddened if he allied himself with her. I would boycott the film and not recommend it to anybody anymore. It's too dangerous for parents watching it to see horror and then be told: But this one is GOOD.
I don't think he will, and if he does it would destroy him as I am not exactly the only person who feels this way. I have a feeling, though, that Izzy has what she wants: an exclusive interview on her blog, and a tie to him in _her_ information sphere.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 06, 2007, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Why would Isabelle refer to PURE, who refers to programs who pay Scheff for sales leads (referrals) that result in a placement?
Can you say CONFLICT OF INTEREST?
Something stinks here, IMO.
It's like a stench in the refrigerator and you don't know where exactly it is coming from until you clean it out and throw out the rotten.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 12:53:38 PM
Hey, tell Nick to do a movie on the referral industry.
Big Bad WWASPS is where Sue Scheff apparently got her start.
Izzy seems to think PURE is somehow different from WWASPS.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote
Run Nick, do not walk! There are many people with credibility who would be more than glad to help you on any future projects. CAICA is a one-man-band and as pointed out earlier, on ISAC's watchlist, along with PURE.
I would be very saddened if he allied himself with her. I would boycott the film and not recommend it to anybody anymore. It's too dangerous for parents watching it to see horror and then be told: But this one is GOOD.
I don't think he will, and if he does it would destroy him as I am not exactly the only person who feels this way. I have a feeling, though, that Izzy has what she wants: an exclusive interview on her blog, and a tie to him in _her_ information sphere.
Bottom line? Nick is at risk of being nominated as Caica's next Advocate of the Month. Right there with Sue Scheff. That alone, would be enough to make me wanna ....
::puke::
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 01:11:24 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Err ... I had no idea Izzy was so handsome, or even a guy.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 02:13:35 PM
IMO, this is a sad day for children and parents, I agree with Mrs. Sutton.
A self-proclaimed children's advocate referring to PURE and some transporter nobody seems to have heard of?
Soliciting donations for referring parents to PURE would suggest to me that Isabelle Zehnder, while maybe not paid directly by PURE, does benefit financially from referring parents to "alternatives" or options, including her own for-profit company Positive Family Solutions, does it not? If not, please explain your reasoning, because that is how I personally see this.
I am truly appalled, sickened and saddened.
:o :cry2: :cry:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 02:16:19 PM
Izzy likes to brag about her 7 years in the legal field, even though the concept of what she did in the legal field seems to change depending on which blog might be read: paralegal, secretary, "worked in the field 7 seven years" whatever.....
Perhaps Izzy needs to apply her seemingly vast legal expertize, and read the WWASP vs PURE transcript and perhaps then she might, could, maybe realize, acknowlege that Sue Scheff continued to refer children to WWASP programs a few months AFTER she started PURE.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 02:30:44 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Izzy likes to brag about her 7 years in the legal field, even though the concept of what she did in the legal field seems to change depending on which blog might be read: paralegal, secretary, "worked in the field 7 seven years" whatever.....
Perhaps Izzy needs to apply her seemingly vast legal expertize, and read the WWASP vs PURE transcript and perhaps then she might, could, maybe realize, acknowlege that Sue Scheff continued to refer children to WWASP programs a few months AFTER she started PURE.
Izzy has already demonstrated through her website CAICA and her many bloggings that she has a selective style of advocacy.
As for the WWASPS v. PURE transcripts, obviously the lady can read so no, this isn't a matter of lack of comprehension or realization.
It's called ______________ (fill in the blank per your own opinion)
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 03:40:59 PM
Quote from: ""ConstentGardener""
http://www.myspace.com/isabelle7
I hadn't realize she was such a beautiful woman. Kind of makes it harder to hate her now. :evil:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 06, 2007, 04:57:35 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Can someone link to a real picture of Izabell?
Here's a real big one: http://a854.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/im ... d92f85.jpg (http://a854.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/17/l_1395093afced21367835d16b1bd92f85.jpg)
Have fun in photoshop. If I have time I might do one. If she takes it down, PM me and i'll find a way to resurrect it. :wink:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 06:59:23 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Now I am more confused than ever, Isabelle. (sarcasm intended)
What happened to the so-called report you were writing for Congressman Miller? At least this was your claim when you first called me last year.
What is your title exactly?? How many hats are you wearing these days? Child Advocate, Parent Consultant, Family Coach, Referral Agent, Founder of an "invisible" Association?
It seems like contradiction is in your blood. I spotted this same contradiction the first time I visited the not so P.U.R.E. website. I asked Sue three legitimate questions that I felt deserved an answer. It's called FULL DISCLOSURE. Instead, all I got was "people don't understand me."
ONE of my questions to Sue Scheff (PURE) was:
"Are you a Child Advocate, or a Referral Agency? I don't feel a "TRUE" Child Advocate can be both.
Isabelle, I feel that you and Sue are giving parents a "false" sense of security while you both continue to proclaim the abuses in this dysfunctional industry to the world, (WWASP, WWASP, WWASP, only), while on the other hand, you are both referring desperate parents to an unregulated, out-of-control, "troubled industry."
You can't have it both ways!
It's bad enough that we've had to fight this "troubled industry" over their long talked about controversy. Now we are up against the controversy amongst the "TRUE" Child Advocates and the "FALSE" Child Advocates.
How sad for the kids!
Michelle Sutton Memorial Fund, Inc. Catherine Sutton
Great post
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 07:33:48 PM
a child advocate GAL Jean Eitel sent me to GT - straight inc. in 87-89 and i had not done any drugs just ran away after my parents divorced so i could be w/ my mom who did not have custody?????? Jean Eitel is now a deacon at an episcopal church....I was given no choice..no say..no evaluation...no drug test...nothing that would qualify me going to any program...unbelievable!!!!!...i have ptsd thanks for the memories! where are the human rights and civil liberty activists....all these child advocates are pervs????????
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 08:23:42 PM
Isabelle Zehnder may to call herself a "child advocate" but that does not make her one does it? A person who advocates for children would not refer them to a person who promotes programs, would she? A person who advocates for children would not advise the use of teen escorts/transporters, wouldshe? A person who advocates for children would not advise "coaching" rather than professional therapy by a licensed theapist, would she?
Would you call Isabelle Zehnder a "child advocate?"
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 09:33:05 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Isabelle Zehnder may to call herself a "child advocate" but that does not make her one does it? A person who advocates for children would not refer them to a person who promotes programs, would she? A person who advocates for children would not advise the use of teen escorts/transporters, wouldshe? A person who advocates for children would not advise "coaching" rather than professional therapy by a licensed theapist, would she?
Would you call Isabelle Zehnder a "child advocate?"
Why would we repeatedly ask questions we know the answers to?
Lets not over do it ok?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 09:40:08 PM
WHY NOT? It's sort of like her BLOGS BLOGS BLOGS BLOGS BLOGS....... Just in case Izzy possibly only understands redundant, repetition; don't mind repeating for her. Reportedly, she just loves reading fornits.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 10:37:04 PM
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 10:58:04 PM
I am a like minded friend. I was also confined at another program in another place during those years, and was also separated from a parent- although that was a secret and part of the whole problem. I would not place any blame on you for wanting to be with your mom. Anybody knows that. as for the people from whom you may seek help, I would even avoid the liscensed professionals until you have figured out your questions. I had to figure things out for myself, because I began to accept part of the blame and you do not deserve it. More than you know the problems really belong to them. Beware the "helper" I think. Please reply anybody.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 11:12:35 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Can someone link to a real picture of Izabell?
Here's a real big one: http://a854.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/im ... d92f85.jpg (http://a854.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/17/l_1395093afced21367835d16b1bd92f85.jpg)
Have fun in photoshop. If I have time I might do one. If she takes it down, PM me and i'll find a way to resurrect it. :wink:
AAIIIIIIEEEE!!!!!
No offense, Mizz Izzy, but a lil' bit of electrolysis might be efficacious on that upper lip.
Mmm...and cut the carbs, someone's going to try to roll you back into the surf, Moby Dick.
Seriously, she looks like she'd be body-slamming muthafuggas on WWF. Bovine and sneering looch.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 06, 2007, 11:13:48 PM
Ever read something and it makes you so mad you can feel your heart beating.
Rapid response that was... Trying to rattle her sabre with that hollow 11M judgement... I hope she loves getting mocked by The Pirate Bay. I'm seeding my copy of the letter through TOR. Good luck getting my IP.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 11:28:21 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Can someone link to a real picture of Izabell?
Here's a real big one: http://a854.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/im ... d92f85.jpg (http://a854.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/17/l_1395093afced21367835d16b1bd92f85.jpg)
Have fun in photoshop. If I have time I might do one. If she takes it down, PM me and i'll find a way to resurrect it. :wink:
Ia! Ia! Cthulhu Fhtagn crawls from the depths onto the shore to become a life coach and breed with some human stock...
Someone get a copy of the Necronomicon and dispatch it back to it's slimy home.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2007, 11:53:15 PM
Let's see: three blogs in the same day on the same topic. Is that a blogging record of some sort? :rofl:
Isabelle Zehnder: Me thinks you protest too much.
My own legal instincts tell me where there's smoke, there's fire.
You are doing a nice job fanning the fire, Ms. Zehnder.
Encouraging people to email you privately rather than permit them to post comments on your blog suggests to me you are afraid of something.
Encouraging people to "report" negative comments, articles, blogs, etc about you and or CAICA suggests to me you are paranoid about something.
My question:
Who/What are you? Surely not the Chief of the Thought Police.
I see no other advocate conducting themselves in this fashion. It is unsettling to say the least.
May I suggest you follow your own advice and take a deep breath.
Step back and ask yourself, what am I not seeing about myself that others see?
Like charity, "coaching" begins at home.
Time for a heart to heart with yourself?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2007, 12:29:14 AM
My question:
Who/What are you? Surely not the Chief of the Thought Police.
I see no other advocate conducting themselves in this fashion. It is unsettling to say the least.
May I suggest you follow your own advice and take a deep breath.
Step back and ask yourself, what am I not seeing about myself that others see?
Like charity, "coaching" begins at home.
Time for a heart to heart with yourself?
---------------
Pro Bono, or not, it's your choice as to whether you want to charge yourself for services rendered to yourself.
Then again, there is that free 30 minute coaching "consultation" you offer parents. You may want to take full advantage of that.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2007, 12:26:08 PM
Anybody got the poop on this transport company?
Title: what a crock of shit...
Post by: psy on June 07, 2007, 12:35:17 PM
This is what she says the whole brew-ha-ha here is about:
Quote from: ""FAT HOG, on her latest blahg""
"At closer look
I have researched the Blogs (mentioned below) and found they were created by someone claiming CAICA reported about a death before knowing what happened. CAICA provided information that is in the news, nothing more, nothing less. This was about the death of Caleb Jensen. I said I believe his death was due to medical negligence a spokeswoman for the Colorado Department of Human Services said Caleb "showed observable signs of staphylococcus infection that were neglected."
"We suspended their license yesterday," Liz McDonough of Alternative Youth Adventures said Thursday. "That obviously is very serious. And we took what we believe is appropriate action."
I have made it very clear I will continue to update CAICA with the news about Caleb - whether's it good or bad, in favor or against the program. I have nothing personally against the program if it's good. But if they neglected to seek medical attention for a boy who was obviously very sick, and it is proven this is true, then I will report that and hope the program will remain shut down. In time the truth will come out."
What total horse-shit. NOBODY is accusing her of good reporting, that I know of... She realized she made a mistake by sending people out to look for libel (since the proof is pretty clear), and she decides now to put the lid back on Pandora's box by saying "oops.. i've investigated it and it's not that bad... just a small manner.. It's all resolved now... just keep walking folks.."
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2007, 12:40:50 PM
Google the name of Sunrise Adolescent Transport and you get nada.
It's also not listed in Lon Woodbuy's directory of Transports which is essentially paid advertising, I believe, but I could be wrong. Point is there does not seem to be a company website or any info about the service at all. Anybody have a link?
:question: :question: :question: :question:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2007, 12:45:37 PM
It's also horse pucky that Isabelle Zehnder screens her "comments".
How the hell do you call yourself a "truth seeker" if you don't allow people to express an opinion or any feedback except privately, behind closed doors, by way of an email to CAICA?
:roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2007, 01:27:54 PM
Isabelle Zehnder writes: "If people send emials, as they have in the past, attempts to discredit us, forward them to [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected])."
Who is this "US" and "OUR?" that Izzy makes reference to?
If Isabelle wants to refer to Sue Scheff/Pure, Sunrise Adolescent Transport; and if she wants to solict coaching business and donations--that's her CHOICE !
It doesn't appear that anyone is DISCREDITING her by discussing it.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2007, 01:47:47 PM
Isabelle Zehnder writes: "If people send emials, as they have in the past, attempts to discredit us, forward them to [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected])."
Who is this "US" and "OUR?" that Izzy makes reference to?
If Isabelle wants to refer to Sue Scheff/Pure, Sunrise Adolescent Transport; and if she wants to solict coaching business and donations--that's her CHOICE !
It doesn't appear that anyone is DISCREDITING her by discussing it.
Isabelle Zehnder is the Founder and President of CAICA which she describes is an "Educational and Informational" Website.
Yet, IMO this email suggests Isabelle Zehnder has some sort of voluntary relationship with a referral and transport company beyond just listing them as resources on an "educational and informational" website.
Second, it's been pointed out the "private" number isn't so private. It is in fact, the business number for PURE.
????????????
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2007, 02:13:26 PM
Does this lady Isabelle have some sort of superiority complex? Alleging people are "jealous" of her?
That is truly "cuckoo" imo, downright bizarre.
Please, if someone can show me an example of someone being critical of CAICA because they are "jealous", post a link.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 07, 2007, 02:20:55 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Does this lady Isabelle have some sort of superiority complex?
Rumor has it, the "Patriotic Negras" have ruled that she is an "ego masturbating bitch". Hilarity will ensue :D
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 07, 2007, 02:28:54 PM
Internet Google-Proof PR?
May 25, 2007 By Andy Greenberg Forbes Magazine
Sue Scheff's business, Parents Universal Resource Experts, places troubled teens in reform schools--and generates a lot of controversy. Disgruntled clients have accused Scheff's company of sending kids to abusive programs, and the Web is full of complaints: A quick Google search used to reveal sites describing her as a "fraud," a "con artist" and a "crook."
Google Scheff's name now, however, and the first few pages of results are far less controversial: They include Scheff's own sites about teen pregnancy, her upcoming book, and, until recently, recipes for broccoli casserole and pork chops.
That last one might seem strange to Scheff's friends, who know she doesn't cook. "The truth is, if it doesn't go in the microwave, I don't make it," she admits.
So who wrote the cooking advice at sue-scheff.net? Not Sue Scheff. That site, and many of the others in the first several pages of Sue Scheff's Google results, were designed by a company called Reputation Defender, which sells what its founder, Michael Fertik, calls "Google insulation." For a fee, Reputation Defender pads the Web with friendly-sounding content like flattering blog entries, personal sites and other positive pages, and then pushes those sites to the top of the Google (nasdaq: GOOG - news - people ) results for clients like Scheff, thereby hiding the online insults of her enemies.
And there's plenty of vitriol to hide. In 2004, she filed a defamation lawsuit against one of her critics, Carey Bock, in a Florida state court. Scheff won an $11.3 million verdict last year, but some negative commentary remained on the Web. Scheff says those comments were ruining her business, driving away more than half of her customers. "She had just slandered me up one side and down the other side of the Internet," Scheff says.
So Scheff turned to Reputation Defender. Founded last October, the company says it monitors what's written about clients online for a monthly $10 fee and will have specific content "destroyed" for an extra $30. The removal of content usually involves polite take-down requests that occasionally escalate into cease-and-desist letters and legal threats when necessary, says the company's chief executive, Michael Fertik.
But Reputation Defender recently began offering users a subtler approach: hiding unwanted Web comments with a barrage of positive, Google-friendly content, either created by the company or dredged up from elsewhere on the Web and optimized to appear at the top of search-engine results.
"Say you have 20,000 delighted clients and five clients that hate you," says Fertik. "We'll tell your story on the Internet and find press about you and start promoting that to the top of the Google chain. It's very Internet-specific PR, a very different game." For that labor-intensive service, officially called MyEdge, the company charges a hefty price: Fees start at around $10,000. Fertik says he has more than 25 clients for the service.
MyEdge's success is based not only in creating reputation-boosting pages but also in convincing Google to float those sites to the first few pages of results, the only results that most Web users ever see. But gaming Google can be tricky. The search giant, which declined to comment on Reputation Defender's service, spends significant resources trying to prevent Web site owners from pushing up their ranking artificially. And it will punish sites it thinks are cheating by pushing them into the back pages of search results. (see "Condemned To Google Hell").
Fertik won't reveal the details of MyEdge's tactics, but he says he's confident they don't break Google's rules or those of any other search engine. He also says his company draws the line at publishing lies about individuals or businesses--the cooking site created for Sue Scheff, he says, was an unfortunate exception, one that he removed after talking to this reporter. But Fertik sees nothing wrong with manipulating Google to focus on the positive aspects of someone's persona.
"Google is not God," he says. "It's a machine, a superb machine that benefits millions, but it's still just a machine. And what it turns up can have remarkably deleterious impact on hardworking people and businesses."
Some might still argue that MyEdge misleads Web users or that it muzzles them by hiding negative opinions. But Kevin Bankston, an attorney at the Internet free-speech advocacy group the Electronic Frontier Foundation, sees MyEdge as a healthy alternative to the usual angry-lawyer school of reputation management.
"As long as they're not committing some kind of fraud, I think this is the way to deal with bad speech," says Bankston. "This shows that you don't need to counter speech by attempting to censor it, but rather with better and more accurate information. As the truism goes, the best answer to bad speech is always more speech."
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 07, 2007, 02:32:44 PM
Quote from: ""forbes""
The search giant, which declined to comment on Reputation Defender's service, spends significant resources trying to prevent Web site owners from pushing up their ranking artificially. And it will punish sites it thinks are cheating by pushing them into the back pages of search results. (see "Condemned To Google Hell").
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 07, 2007, 04:57:34 PM
Guess what... miss blogs-a-lot deleted her "CAICA is full of it" blog (where she suggested people contact her if they see anything negative about her). She is changing the content to this:
Does anybody have the original? Please either post it or PM/otherwise contact me with it.
Quote
CAICA has received complaints that we are reporting about this child's death without knowing the outcome of an investigation. We are reporting what the news media is reporting. This child died in a wilderness program and the State of Colorado and his mother believe he died from medical neglect: Colorado authorities say Jensen died from a staphylococcus infection. Personnel at the camp, Alternative Young Adventures, observed signs of the infection, according to a state agency, but neglected to properly care for it. When a full investigation is completed it will be posted on CAICA.
CALEB JENSEN Died: May 2, 2007, 15 years old Program: Alternative Youth Adventures, Colorado Cause of Death: Preliminary cause medical negligence
Caleb's last letter to his mother, just a week ago, read:
"I wish I could go back and be a good little boy, a nice little naive church boy who couldn't steal bubble gum without feeling bad about it. I want to wear Sponge Bob PJs and Teddy Bear slippers and cuddle with my Mommy. I used to think I was too hard of a gangster that nobody could break me, but they found my weakness and I want to go home. Tell Heather and Marie I miss them. I miss you and love you all so much. Please write back. I love you. PS - I want my Mommy." Love, you're baby boy, Caleb
* NOTE: CAICA President, Isabelle Zehnder, has read many letters from children to their parents and has seen a pattern where children appear to be completely broken, begging for "Mommy", pleading to come home. These are not normal letters written teenagers. These are letters written by teenagers who have been broken and who are desperate for help. Sadly, some not only never get the help they need, they have died in the process.
Mother: My son fought to live Last letter home before death at remote camp reveals 15-year-old's pain, hope May 16, 2007 By Nancy Lofholm
"I want my mommy." Dawn Boyd said her son Caleb Jensen's letters said he was feeling better about his life but badly wanted to come home. (Special to The Post)In a last letter to his family from a wilderness camp for troubled youths, Caleb Jensen wrote about the difficulties of surviving in the wild and added a postscript: "I want my mommy."
Caleb's mother, Dawn Boyd of Salt Lake City, received the letter from her youngest child during the week before he died of an untreated staph infection. He was participating in a court-ordered wilderness therapy program through Alternative Youth Adventures near Montrose.
The program's license to operate was suspended after the 15-year-old died May 2. Boyd said she believes camp staff ignored her son's assertions that he was sick and needed to go home. She also believes the Utah Division of Juvenile Justice Services, which placed her son in the rough and remote program, failed to take into account his frequent problems with staph infections.
"He should have been cared for. He should be alive today," a sobbing Boyd said during a telephone conversation from her home. "I know my baby told them. He always knew when he had a staph infection."
Boyd said her son's letters from camp recently said he was feeling better about his life but badly wanted to come home, "so he could get in his SpongeBob pajama pants and his big slippers and curl up with me and his sisters to watch TV."
Caleb described a different life in camp. He wrote he had to climb mountains every day until he was exhausted. He was able to wash only twice a week using tiny amounts of water. He had to clean his dishes after meals by licking them and then using dirt to scour them.
"That's not how he should have been treated - like a dog or a lizard," said his grandmother, Ella Reese of Troy, Idaho.
Caleb expressed some optimism along with the complaints. "Mom, I think I'm going to make it this time," he wrote in a letter.
Caleb died of a methicillin-resistant staphylococcus aureus infection. The bacterial infection traditionally is seen in hospitalized or very ill or elderly patients. Caleb's mother said he had been treated for numerous staph infections since he was a toddler and suffered a related skin problem called impetigo. He was treated for three infections while he was in other juvenile justice programs in Utah before being sent to the camp, she said.
"When I saw my son in the casket and looked at his little face, there was a sore on each side of his mouth under the makeup. ... I knew," she said.
Actions at camp defended
Carol Sisco, a spokeswoman for the Utah Department of Human Services that oversees the juvenile justice programs, said Caleb passed a physical before he was sent to the camp March 28. She said he had a physical in the field the week before he died and a session with a therapist the day before his death. No one reported that he was ill. His mother said he did not report being ill in his last letter.
Caleb's family has been unable to get much information about his death. Reese said they pieced together information that shows Caleb was sitting on his sleeping bag in the camp during a rest day on the day he died. Caleb, who had been exhibiting behavioral problems for several days before his death, told a counselor he didn't feel well and needed to go home. After the counselor moved on, Caleb slumped over.
Less than 10 minutes later when a counselor checked on him, he was dead, Reese said. Bill Palatucci, a spokesman for Community Education Centers Inc., the Roseland, N.J.-based company that created the youth camp, said complaints from troubled youths are common.
"They hear a lot that youths want to go home. The staff is taught to sort through those and determine the genuine issues and the non," Palatucci said.
Palatucci would not reveal the amount of medical training the four camp counselors have. He said their training meets state licensing requirements.
Community Education Center is contesting the Colorado Department of Human Services suspension of its license to operate the camp. A hearing is expected to be scheduled within the next month. The other 26 participants in the camp have been moved to youth-detention facilities in Utah and Colorado.
Mother gets few answers
Boyd said she is working with an attorney to try to find out more about the death of a son who had been in and out of state custody "for anger issues" since she and her children moved to Salt Lake City in 2004.
She said a representative of Alternative Youth Adventures phoned her to say her son was dead more than five hours after his body was airlifted out of the remote camp. She received few details and no offers of help. A week later she received a two-paragraph letter of condolence.
It ended: "The memory of Caleb will inspire us to continue our good work on behalf of all the juveniles in our care."
Utah human services authorities gave Boyd $1,500 to help with transporting Caleb's body to Utah and with the cost of the funeral. She has not received her son's belongings.
Sisco, of Utah's Human Services agency, said officials there can't help Boyd without more facts. "The hard part is that we don't know all the answers yet. We don't know yet if there was staff negligence or if this was something that couldn't be caught," she said.
Utah teen's wilderness camp death may have been due to staph infection May 10, 2007 By Christopher Smart
A 15-year-old Salt Lake City boy may have died from a severe staph infection while enrolled in a youth wilderness program near Montrose in southwest Colorado.
Colorado authorities continue to investigate the May 2 death of Caleb Jensen in a rugged, mountainous area while at an Alternative Youth Adventures camp.
Autopsy results may not be available for another week or more, said Scott Wagner, chief investigator for the Montrose County District Attorney's Office. But a spokeswoman for the Colorado Department of Human Services said the youth "showed observable signs of staphylococcus infection that were neglected."
"We suspended their license yesterday," said Liz McDonough of the outdoor program. "That obviously is very serious, and we took what we believe is appropriate action."
A spokesman at the Roseland, N.J., headquarters for Alternative Youth Adventures said the program's staff had acted appropriately. "We are at a loss to explain this at this point," said William Palatucci. "We are cooperating fully with the investigation. We know this is a good program. We've never had any fatalities."
Preliminary indication from Mesa County Coroner's Office is that he died of "natural causes," Wagner said, meaning his death was not homicide, suicide or due to accident.
"That leaves it pretty wide open," Wagner said. "The cause of death has not been determined."
The youth died near the Montrose County/Mesa County line. Mesa County authorities were first to respond. It was later determined that Jensen died in Montrose County. Jensen's death is being investigated by the Montrose County Sheriff's Office. But Undersheriff Kevin Walters referred inquiries to the DA's Office. The investigation is standard procedure, Wagner said. No "request for prosecution" has been made, he said Thursday.
Utah authorities enrolled Jensen in the two-month Alternative Youth Adventures program, according to Carol Sisco, spokeswoman for Utah Juvenile Justice Services. "He had gone through the courts in Utah and was ordered into our custody," she said. "We placed him in the Colorado program."
Jensen passed a physical exam when he entered the program on March 28, Sisco said. "This is a program we've used in the past," she said. "And as far as I know, this is the first fatality. According to the Web site for Alternative Youth Adventures, the program "provides a healthy, protective environment within which troubled youth will have the opportunity to achieve.
Utah teen's death has wilderness therapy program under scrutiny May 11, 2007 By Christopher Smart
A 15-year-old Salt Lake City boy who was ordered by Utah officials into a wilderness therapy program, where he died last week in southwest Colorado, may have been killed by a severe and untreated staph infection.
Colorado authorities continue to investigate the May 2 death of Caleb Jensen in a rugged, mountainous area near Montrose while participating since March 28 in a course for troubled youth. Autopsy results may not be available for another week or more, said Scott Wagner, chief investigator for the Montrose County District Attorney's Office.
But a spokeswoman for the Colorado Department of Human Services said the young man "showed observable signs of staphylococcus infection that were neglected." "We suspended their license yesterday," Liz McDonough of Alternative Youth Adventures said Thursday. "That obviously is very serious. And we took what we believe is appropriate action."
Utah authorities enrolled Jensen in the two-month Alternative Youth Adventures program, said Carol Sisco, spokeswoman for Utah Juvenile Justice Services. "He had gone through the courts in Utah and was ordered into our custody," she said. "We placed him in the Colorado program."
Some wilderness-based teen-therapy programs have come under scrutiny in Utah during the past several years as a result of a handful of deaths and other incidents. State laws now require stricter licensing guidelines for such Utah-based operations. A spokesman at the Roseland, N.J., headquarters for Alternative Youth Adventures said the program's guides and counselors had acted appropriately.
"We are at a loss to explain this at this point," said William Palatucci. "We are cooperating fully with the investigation."
Alternative Youth Adventures has been in operation in Colorado since 2000. "We know this is a good program," Palatucci said. "We've never had any fatalities."
Preliminary indication from the Mesa County Coroner's Office is that Jensen died of "natural causes," Wagner, the D.A.'s investigator, said - meaning his death was not homicide, suicide or caused by an accident.
"That leaves it pretty wide open," he said. "The cause of death has not been determined."
The youth died near the Montrose County/Mesa County line. Mesa County authorities were first to respond. It was later determined that Jensen died in Montrose County.
Jensen's death is being investigated by the Montrose County Sheriff's Office. But Undersheriff Kevin Walters referred inquiries to the district attorney's office.
The investigation is standard procedure, Wagner said. No "request for prosecution" has been made at this time, he said Thursday.
Jensen passed a physical exam when he entered the course on March 28, said Utah Juvenile Justice Services spokeswoman Sisco.
"This is a program we've used in the past," she said. "And as far as I know, this is the first fatality.
According to its Web site, Alternative Youth Adventures "provides a healthy, protective environment within which troubled youth will have the opportunity to achieve their full potential through the use of treatment and education services that focus on positive change."
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2007, 05:19:44 PM
Psy - Google had this cached - is this the one you were looking for?
ISABELLE ZEHNDER: TRUTH ABOUT CAICA
I am writing this short Blog in an attempt to right a wrong. After all, that's what CAICA and Isabelle Zehnder are all about - helping to right wrongs.
Wednesday, June 6, 2007 At closer look
I have researched the Blogs (mentioned below) and found they were created by someone claiming CAICA reported about a death before knowing what happened. CAICA provided information that is in the news, nothing more, nothing less. This was about the death of Caleb Jensen. I said I believe his death was due to medical negligence a spokeswoman for the Colorado Department of Human Services said Caleb "showed observable signs of staphylococcus infection that were neglected."
"We suspended their license yesterday," Liz McDonough of Alternative Youth Adventures said Thursday. "That obviously is very serious. And we took what we believe is appropriate action."
I have made it very clear I will continue to update CAICA with the news about Caleb - whether's it good or bad, in favor or against the program. I have nothing personally against the program if it's good. But if they neglected to seek medical attention for a boy who was obviously very sick, and it is proven this is true, then I will report that and hope the program will remain shut down. In time the truth will come out.
Posted by Isabelle Zehnder at 2:06 PM
Labels: alternative youth adventues, caleb jensen, death, medical, negligence, wilderness program
CAICA is full of it
I am writing this short Blog in an attempt to right a wrong. After all, that's what CAICA and Isabelle Zehnder are all about - helping to right wrongs.
Someone created Blogs entitled: Truth about CAICA: CAICA is full of it, and Truth about CAICA: Best Intentions. Both were in an attempt to discredit CAICA and me. Interestingly both were deleted. However, descriptions of them linger on the Internet.
People forget what they post on the Internet can be traced back to them, and that Internet Defamation is just as bad as any other form of defamation. People are being held accountable for Internet Defamation as they are any other form of defamation. Recently Sue Scheff won an $11.3 M Jury award because she has been slandered and defamed on the Internet for years. The judge and jury wanted to send a strong message to peole who think it's quite alright to splatter their venemous and untrue thoughts on the Internet for the world to see. The message was, "you can't go around destroying lives on the Internet".
Laws are changing and we are seeing more jury awards in favor of people who have been slandered and defamed on the Internet - some are holding forum moderators accountable. It's only just begun, in my opinion, and I believe lawyers will soon be taking these cases on a contingency fee basis which will enable more people to file suit against those who defame them.
This time the wrong is against CAICA and against me, and I believe it is time I come forward and let people know what I believe is happening.
I have been a Child Advocate for years, people who know me trust me. They know I work hard and always have the children and family's best interest at heart.
It is no wonder people are working hard to discredit me and CAICA. If a person takes a moment to reflect what I as an advocate have done, and what CAICA as an organization has done, and continues to do, it is easy to understand why there are people who spend time trying to discredit us on the Internet.
All of my friends and colleagues believe I should be flattered that there are people out there who are spending so much of their time trying to discredit CAICA and me.
Why are they doing it? For one because CAICA is fighting a multi-billion dollar industry. Isabelle Zehnder and CAICA are not afraid to research the truth and then to expose the truth.
CAICA fights against all abuse to children who are out of their parents' control. This includes residential treatment centers, therapeutic boarding schools, wilderness programs, positive peer culture programs, behavior modification programs, Christian programs, and so on. This is a growing multi-billion dollar per year industry. Never before has there been such a comprehensive website on this topic.
This has created some anger, resentment, and some jealousy. There is no doubt people will work to discredit us. If you run across anything that just doesn't make sense, and that you feel is not in line with the CAICA you know, or with me, then just e-mail or call me and ask. Why allow people who have their own interest to put doubt into your minds about something that is good.
If people send you e-mails, as they have in the past, attempting to discredit us, please forward them to [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]).
Posted by Isabelle Zehnder at 12:40 PM
Labels: caica, coalition against institutionalized child abuse, parents and teens unite, positive family solutions, pure, sue scheff
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 07, 2007, 05:22:11 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Psy - Google had this cached - is this the one you were looking for?
Exactly the one. Thanks.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2007, 05:23:15 PM
What Irony - Cached by Google - gotta love it!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Lets discuss defamation-- Jesabelle
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2007, 05:35:28 PM
For the sake of discussion... interested in your thoughts..
The subject of defamation. It appears that someone can not be sued if the subject in question can prove the statements made are true in nature. For example: if a woman who may be of large content, some may say obese or fat. Not only can it not be considered defamation, because it could be true in nature, also it may not be perceived in a negative connetation. We all know that some mens magazines specifically have size women for viewing pleasure. The author of a post who may say a person is "fat or obese" is simply stating a fact, it falls on the reader and their perception of the word fat or obese if it is negative. The same would apply for statements if someone looks like the opposite sex or possible has a mustache. If the statement is true it would not be considered defaming, if I understand from the description below.
Also, it would apply to a business. If you will not below it discusses the legal term for "Qualified priviledge". I think the statement below says it best:
"Qualified privilege" may be available to the journalist as a defense in circumstances where it is considered important that the facts be known in the public interest;
I believe the information that was released in the form of an email to be of public interest. If a person is posing as a non-profit and accepting donations yet refering to businesses behind the scenes. It is important for the public to know. It is well known in this industry that referals are well paid for. This could be considered a conflict of interest and it is an important for the public to know. I don't think anything in this thread or forum outlining the found content would be considered defaming. hmm..
Info: Slander and libel From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search
Tort law Part of the common law series Negligence Duty of care · Standard of care Proximate cause · Res ipsa loquitur Calculus of negligence · Eggshell skull Negligent emotional distress Rescue doctrine · Duty to rescue Statutory Torts Product liability · Ultrahazardous activity Trespassers · Licensees · Invitees Attractive nuisance Nuisance Public nuisance · Rylands v. Fletcher Property torts Trespass · Conversion Detinue · Replevin · Trover Intentional torts Assault · Battery · False imprisonment Intentional emotional distress Consent · Necessity · Self defense Dignitary torts Defamation · Invasion of privacy Breach of confidence · Abuse of process Malicious prosecution Economic torts Fraud · Tortious interference Conspiracy · Restraint of trade Liability, Defenses, Remedies Vicarious liability Volenti non fit injuria · Contribution Ex turpi causa non oritur actio Damages · Injunction Common law Contract law · Property law Wills and trusts Criminal law · Evidence Topics in journalism Professional issues Ethics & news values Objectivity & attribution News source & libel law News & reporting & writing Education & fourth estate Other topics & books
Fields Advocacy journalism Alternative journalism Arts journalism Business journalism Citizen journalism Fashion journalism Investigative journalism Literary journalism Photojournalism Science journalism Sports journalism Video game journalism Video journalism
“Libel” redirects here. For other uses, see Libel (disambiguation). For "liable", see Liability. In law, defamation is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against criticism.
The common law origins of defamation lie in the torts of slander (harmful statement in a transitory form, especially speech) and libel (harmful statement in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast), each of which gives a common law right of action.
"Defamation" is the general term used internationally, and is used in this article where it is not necessary to distinguish between "slander" and "libel". Libel and slander both require publication. The fundamental distinction between libel and slander lies solely in the form in which the defamatory matter is published. If the offending material is published in some fleeting form, as by spoken words or sounds, sign language, gestures and the like, then this is slander. If it is published in more durable form, for example in written words, film, compact disc (CD), internet blogging and the like, then it is considered libel.
Contents [hide] 1 Vocabulary and general concepts 1.1 Truth 1.2 Privilege and malice 1.3 Similar but different delicts and torts 1.4 Criminal libel 2 Origins of defamation law 3 English law 3.1 Development of English defamation law 3.2 English admiralty law 3.3 Modern law 3.4 Burden of proof on the defendant 4 United States law 5 Singapore law 6 Scottish law 7 Defenses 8 Defamation per se 8.1 History 9 Australian law 10 Canadian law 10.1 Criminal defamation 11 See also 12 References 13 External links
[edit] Vocabulary and general concepts "Libel" comes from Latin : libellus ("little book")[1][2] Even if a statement is derogatory, there are circumstances in which such statements are permissible in law.
[edit] Truth In many, though not all, legal systems, statements presented as fact must be false to be defamatory. Proving a defamatory statement to be true is often the best defense against a prosecution for libel. Statements of opinion that cannot be proven true or false will likely need to apply some other kind of defense. The use of the defense of justification has dangers, however. If the defendant libels the plaintiff and then runs the defense of truth and fails, he may be said to have aggravated the harm.
In some systems, however, notably the Philippines and the Canadian province of Quebec, truth alone is not a defense.[3] It is also necessary in these cases to show that there is a well-founded public interest in the specific information being widely known, and this may be the case even for public figures.
Public interest is generally not "that which the public is interested in," but rather that which is in the interest of the public. [4]
See also: Substantial truth
[edit] Privilege and malice Privilege provides a complete bar and answer to a defamation suit, though conditions may have to be met before this protection is granted.
There are two types of privilege in the common law tradition:
"Absolute privilege" has the effect that a statement cannot be sued on as defamatory, even if it were made maliciously; a typical example is evidence given in court (although this may give rise to different claims, such as an action for malicious prosecution or perjury) or statements made in a session of the legislature (known as 'Parliamentary privilege' in Commonwealth countries). "Qualified privilege" may be available to the journalist as a defense in circumstances where it is considered important that the facts be known in the public interest; an example would be public meetings, local government documents, and information relating to public bodies such as the police and fire departments. Qualified privilege has the same effect as absolute privilege, but does not protect statements that can be proven to have been made maliciously.
Interesting..
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2007, 05:43:09 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""forbes""
The search giant, which declined to comment on Reputation Defender's service, spends significant resources trying to prevent Web site owners from pushing up their ranking artificially. And it will punish sites it thinks are cheating by pushing them into the back pages of search results. (see "Condemned To Google Hell").
just didnt want this to get buried among the long posts.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 07, 2007, 06:31:38 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""forbes""
The search giant, which declined to comment on Reputation Defender's service, spends significant resources trying to prevent Web site owners from pushing up their ranking artificially. And it will punish sites it thinks are cheating by pushing them into the back pages of search results. (see "Condemned To Google Hell").
just didnt want this to get buried among the long posts.
I'm going to write a letter tonight, and I'll post the letter here so people can use it as a template. Google cares a lot about technical information so it is probably helpful to include it. Once the template is here, people can start submitting complaints about Sue, and Reputation defender.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 07, 2007, 09:33:54 PM
Izabelle Zehnder. You are FUCKED. This feels so good to type.
A friend of a friend of mine (with a deeper voice) called up Sunrise (referred to a friend by Izabelle Zehnder, proof on page 1) as a prospective parent claiming to have a kid who needed transportation to Cross Creek Manor (WWASP). I do have proof and It will be submitted to ISAC as soon as possible, thought the information on the identity of those who performed this call will remain confidential. As a blogger (in your own words Izzy) I am entitled to freedom of the press and confidentiality for my sources. Whether or not the court upholds that, I will not release the identities. As a part time journalist, I protect my sources, and my friends. I don't do dirt lists anymore.
Information about Sunrise academy:
Owner: Julie Thompson - Owned company for two and a half years - Formerly worked for Teen Help as admissions coordinator - Assured "parents" that CCM was an excellent school - said she would place her own daughter there - said her company was 20 minutes away from CCM - knows a lot of people that worked there
She was willing to transport the imaginary child for a fee. She quoted a specific fee (will not be more specific to protect the identities of the participants in this). She said she would be able to transport the child in less than 24 hours. She said her workers could be in and out of the house in 4 minutes. She stated that he/she would be woken up in the middle of the night, and not allowed to use the bathroom until the child arrived at the airport.
Julie Thompson stated that her service was UNLICENSED but _good_.
THIS IS WHO ISABELLE ZEHNDER DIRECTLY REFERS PARENTS TO.
THIS IS NOT SPECULATION THIS IS FACT.[/color]
I will testify to this under oath, and I do have proof. You know how I work. Don't fuck with me on this. Shut down CAICA, leave, and never every show your fat hog ass around this industry ever again. I have FAR more than you think. Pray to god parents you referred to these services don't sue you, and your traitor friend blind. And stay the FUCK away from survivors. They aren't there for your PR. How DARE you call yourself an advocate.
Once Teen Help...
Title: Odd email I just got
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2007, 10:33:05 PM
I just recieved this Email from Izabelle Zehnder:
Quote
Dear Michael,
Thank you for your e-mail. Could you please confirm this is your mailing address:
Michael Crawford 11728 Fairfax Woods Way Apt. 1201 Fairfax, Virginia 22030 Thanks,
You friend
Creepy that was. Classy Izzy. Real classy. Go fuck yourself. I am not intimidated.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 07, 2007, 10:41:05 PM
Wrong address Bitch. But it's nice to know you keep 6 year old records around.
Should something happen to me. Who do you think people will blame? Back off.
Edit: I just received the same email in my old email box. Seems she thinks spy2k6 is me.
Edit: Full header:
Quote
From Isabelle Zehnder Thu Jun 7 16:45:09 2007 Return-Path: Authentication-Results: mta408.mail.mud.yahoo.com from=; domainkeys=neutral (no sig) Received: from 208.185.251.19 (EHLO esmtp.emsvr.com) (208.185.251.19) by mta408.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; Thu, 07 Jun 2007 16:45:17 -0700 Received: from esmtp.emsvr.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by esmtp.emsvr.com (8.13.6/8.12.11/CWT/DCE) with ESMTP id l57NjEMk001550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2007 23:45:15 GMT Received: (from mail@localhost) by esmtp.emsvr.com (8.13.6/8.12.11/Submit/CWT/DCE) id l57NjEPw001541 for [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]); Thu Jun 7 23:45:11 2007 Received: from alnrmhc15.comcast.net (alnrmhc15.comcast.net [204.127.225.95]) by esmtp (8.13.6/8.12.11/CWT/DCE) with ESMTP id l57NjAtl001517 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2007 23:45:10 GMT Received: from amailcenter01.comcast.net ([204.127.225.101]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc15) with SMTP id <20070607234510b15008frjre>; Thu, 7 Jun 2007 23:45:10 +0000 Received: from [71.209.9.149] by amailcenter01.comcast.net; Thu, 07 Jun 2007 23:45:09 +0000 From: [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]) (Isabelle Zehnder) MIME-Version: 1.0 Disposition-Notification-To: "them" Return-Receipt-To: [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]) Errors-To: [email protected] Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1560
Smile. Jesus loves your fat ass.... actually.. he probably doesn't. nevermind.
Oh. and thanks for confirming the header of the first letter.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on June 07, 2007, 10:52:07 PM
This is getting ridiculous. They're acting like gangster thugs. Psy, report her for cyber-stalking. This is fucked.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 07, 2007, 10:55:12 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
This is getting ridiculous. They're acting like gangster thugs. Psy, report her for cyber-stalking. This is fucked.
I don't believe in cyber-stalking legislation. It rubs my ethics the wrong way. She can say what she likes. It's her right. Plus. She is just proving how fucking crazy she is.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: hanzomon4 on June 07, 2007, 11:11:31 PM
:o
Psy's stick'in it to Izz
::bigsmilebounce::
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on June 07, 2007, 11:12:32 PM
Crazy? I'd say tons of fun is going into meltdown mode. She's spinning like a top.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 07, 2007, 11:15:33 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Crazy? I'd say tons of fun is going into meltdown mode. She's spinning like a top.
"you spin me right round baby right round"... lol.. and please... don't post that link.
Fitting metaphor i think though.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2007, 11:26:59 PM
You rock psy.::rocker:: Fuck that fat child referin' bitch.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2007, 11:39:43 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Izabelle Zehnder. You are FUCKED. This feels so good to type.
A friend of a friend of mine (with a deeper voice) called up Sunrise academy as a prospective parent claiming to have a kid who needed transportation to Cross Creek Manor (WWASP). I do have proof and It will be submitted to ISAC as soon as possible, thought the information on the identity of those who performed this call will remain confidential. As a blogger (in your own words Izzy) I am entitled to freedom of the press and confidentiality for my sources. Whether or not the court upholds that, I will not release the identities. As a part time journalist, I protect my sources, and my friends. I don't do dirt lists anymore.
Information about Sunrise academy:
Owner: Julie Thompson - Owned company for two and a half years - Formerly worked for Teen Help as admissions coordinator - Assured "parents" that CCM was an excellent school - said she would place her own daughter there - said her company was 20 minutes away from CCM - knows a lot of people that worked there
She was willing to transport the imaginary child for a fee. She quoted a specific fee (will not be more specific to protect the identities of the participants in this). She said she would be able to transport the child in less than 24 hours. She said her workers could be in and out of the house in 4 minutes. She stated that he/she would be woken up in the middle of the night, and not allowed to use the bathroom until the child arrived at the airport.
Julie Thompson stated that her service was UNLICENSED but _good_.
THIS IS WHO ISABELLE ZEHNDER DIRECTLY REFERS PARENTS TO.
THIS IS NOT SPECULATION THIS IS FACT.[/color]
I will testify to this under oath, and I do have proof. You know how I work. Don't fuck with me on this. Shut down CAICA, leave, and never every show your fat hog ass around this industry ever again. I have FAR more than you think. Pray to god parents you referred to these services don't sue you, and your traitor friend blind. And stay the FUCK away from survivors. They aren't there for your PR. How DARE you call yourself an advocate.
Once Teen Help...
She refers parents to a child kidnapper who delivers victims to the hands of WWASPS? THis can be proven?
This so called child advocate is finally exposed now as the fraud they are.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on June 07, 2007, 11:57:11 PM
This is the domino effect I was speculating on in the PURE bullshit thread. The dual-Sudweeks defense blogs were an indication that paranoia was eating away at Sue and Izzy, so they went into ass-covering mode. Izzy seems a bit more mentally challenged than Sue, though. Greed+stupidity=failure and shame, my fat bitches. Find out where the Sudweeks are hiding out, maybe they've got room under their rock for you two...better be a big fuggin' rock to accommodate these two glandular cases
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 07, 2007, 11:57:46 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""psy""
Izabelle Zehnder. You are FUCKED. This feels so good to type.
A friend of a friend of mine (with a deeper voice) called up Sunrise academy as a prospective parent claiming to have a kid who needed transportation to Cross Creek Manor (WWASP). I do have proof and It will be submitted to ISAC as soon as possible, thought the information on the identity of those who performed this call will remain confidential. As a blogger (in your own words Izzy) I am entitled to freedom of the press and confidentiality for my sources. Whether or not the court upholds that, I will not release the identities. As a part time journalist, I protect my sources, and my friends. I don't do dirt lists anymore.
Information about Sunrise academy:
Owner: Julie Thompson - Owned company for two and a half years - Formerly worked for Teen Help as admissions coordinator - Assured "parents" that CCM was an excellent school - said she would place her own daughter there - said her company was 20 minutes away from CCM - knows a lot of people that worked there
She was willing to transport the imaginary child for a fee. She quoted a specific fee (will not be more specific to protect the identities of the participants in this). She said she would be able to transport the child in less than 24 hours. She said her workers could be in and out of the house in 4 minutes. She stated that he/she would be woken up in the middle of the night, and not allowed to use the bathroom until the child arrived at the airport.
Julie Thompson stated that her service was UNLICENSED but _good_.
THIS IS WHO ISABELLE ZEHNDER DIRECTLY REFERS PARENTS TO.
THIS IS NOT SPECULATION THIS IS FACT.[/color]
I will testify to this under oath, and I do have proof. You know how I work. Don't fuck with me on this. Shut down CAICA, leave, and never every show your fat hog ass around this industry ever again. I have FAR more than you think. Pray to god parents you referred to these services don't sue you, and your traitor friend blind. And stay the FUCK away from survivors. They aren't there for your PR. How DARE you call yourself an advocate.
Once Teen Help...
She refers parents to a child kidnapper who delivers victims to the hands of WWASPS? THis can be proven?
Yes. I have proof. But for the moment you will have to take my word for it.
I have to protect the identities of the person who made the calls. That being said, If i (or anybody involved in this) disappear somehow (have an accident, brake failure, slip in shower, shoot self twice in back of head..), you will have the proof publicly. That I promise. For now, it is "life insurance". Considering the odd timing of receiving a (not so) veiled threat, it is probably best I keep it. I will testify to it though if she sues me for libel (which she won't .. unless she is REALLY dumb)
I protect source, source protects me. Works well.
Izzy: Now be a good fatass and retire.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on June 08, 2007, 12:24:52 AM
I posted a comment on Izzy's Whitmore Blog that put her in defense mode, she deleted it then misquoted me (and mis-sexed me...wonder who she thought I was? Hmmm...) and started the sabre-rattling crap she so recently yanked down.
This is from the other thread:
Quote
On her Whitmore blog, Izzy wrote:
"She(that's HE, Vileness - Zen)goes on to say CAICA is worried because we referred children there. CAICA is not a referral agency so never referred any child there."
No, but CAICA is aligned with PURE, and who's to say a parent didn't put trust in CAICA and followed CAICA's praise of PURE to Scheff, and from there the road to hell led to the Whitmore...
It's the dreaded "domino effect" Sue and Izzy want to avoid, and they're backpedaling, spinning, lashing out blindly, and trying to scorch the earth five miles in every direction in an attempt to get out of the way of the falling blocks.
I was off, the connection between CAICA and PURE is much more direct, but you see how itchy Zehnder got when it was suggested she had referred children. Izzy. Izzy, Izzy. The end is nigh. Tell Sue the news.
Title: threats
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 12:34:36 AM
I would not place any worry about threats from someone who only has 11 friends on myspace, you would think a great a person who this person says she is would have hundreds of friends...blah....just someone with no life trying to make out they are great...geeze :roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on June 08, 2007, 12:35:23 AM
Oh, yeah...when I saw the torrent called "Isabelle Zehnder exposed", I was really afraid of what I was going to find when it finished D/L...I didn't want to see Izzy in a Paris Hilton kinda video... :cry2: ::noway:: ::puke::
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 12:36:03 AM
She doesnt have grounds to sue you. Even if the content of truth is provided maliciously .. if it is truth, and it is in the public interest.. she doesnt have grounds to sue you. If she tries .. the courthouse will be lined around the block with witnesses to suppor you ...
IN THE MEANTIME... it would be great if a reporter picked up this "tidbit". and announced [b]CAICA "advocate" theatens ABUSE survivor.
Nice IZ.. this sure looks good for you. If this was not true .. you would not try to intimate a kid who survived a program. I think your behavior speaks volumes on this issue.
If it wasnt true.. why not just speak up and answer the questions people are asking? Theatening people who have survived outrageous abuses similar to POW conditions is really low. If this information is not true address it. We are all waiting for it. We all know you are reading.. we are just waiting to for answers.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 12:47:31 AM
I just find it odd that izzy would assist in referring someone to a transporter, given that she said the reason she got into "advocacy" was because some kid living with her was taken from her home by tranporters and sent far away.
WTH?
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 01:05:30 AM
First Isabelle Zehnder attacks a parent in her Whitmore Blogs....now she is attacking a program survivor? Strange, when someone speaks out in this industry (be it a parent or a program survivor) they get attacked, by a self-proclaimed advocate, Isabelle Zehnder?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 01:13:03 AM
What sort of problem might arise if it is discovered that any of the victims in the Turley lawsuit against WWASP were transported to their "abusive WWASP FACILITY" by Sunrise Adolescent Transport?
It is reported that Sunrise Adolescent Transport is owned by Julie Thompson, a former employee of WWASP's TEEN HELP.
Isabelle Zehnder seems to be very involved in the Turley lawsuit. Since Zehnder's own email reveals that she referred to Sunrise Adolescent Transport, which reportedly transports children to WWASP facilities--is this some sort of "conflict of interest?"
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 08, 2007, 01:43:44 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
What sort of problem might arise if it is discovered that any of the victims in the Turley lawsuit against WWASP were transported to their "abusive WWASP FACILITY" by Sunrise Adolescent Transport?
It is reported that Sunrise Adolescent Transport is owned by Julie Thompson, a former employee of WWASP's TEEN HELP.
Isabelle Zehnder seems to be very involved in the Turley lawsuit. Since Zehnder's own email reveals that she referred to Sunrise Adolescent Transport, which reportedly transports children to WWASP facilities--is this some sort of "conflict of interest?"
Just so ya know... By joining the Turley lawsuit, they agree not to Sue SueSue for any referrals she might have made. I wonder why....
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 08, 2007, 10:11:57 AM
That cunt sue has been manipulating the parents in the Turley lawsuit to cover her ass for the longest old time.
Its all about CYA for sue.
Much like using Izzy as her fall bitch. Good work all around and I only hope this leads for the full implication of Sue as the one pulling the strings.
None of you really believe Izzawhore is smart enough to make a decision on her own?
Like I say.. She has been Sue's little fall bitch for the longest damn time now. Now that she is outted I bet that we will see Sue flushing Izzawhore like a corn speckled floater.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: BuzzKill on June 08, 2007, 10:41:49 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
What sort of problem might arise if it is discovered that any of the victims in the Turley lawsuit against WWASP were transported to their "abusive WWASP FACILITY" by Sunrise Adolescent Transport?
It is reported that Sunrise Adolescent Transport is owned by Julie Thompson, a former employee of WWASP's TEEN HELP.
Isabelle Zehnder seems to be very involved in the Turley lawsuit. Since Zehnder's own email reveals that she referred to Sunrise Adolescent Transport, which reportedly transports children to WWASP facilities--is this some sort of "conflict of interest?"
I would like to once again, try to explain that Izzy and Sue have nothing to do with this law suit. If they want to advertise it, and act like they are the big wheels rolling it, there isn't anything much that can be done to stop them. But you all ought to know - these two are not about honesty and full disclosure. They are trying to project an image - and for now it suits their purpose to pretend they are involved with this case.
If they happen to speak with survivors or the parents, and suggest they call Turley and see about joining this action - well - they are hardly alone. Many others do as much - and probably more - they just don't go around bragging about it.
There are indications that the law firm itself is not happy with this image Sue and Izzy are attempting to project with regard to the case - but I don't feel comfortable explaining details on an open forum about a case that is active. Its not as if I am in any way privileged to "inside info" - but as you might imagine, I do hear a bit about it from time to time.
As I tried to explain before - I think (as in speculate) they are avoiding the distraction of going after Sue more because of the mess it might create with other parents who did a lot of referring, than out of any concern for her.
I also *speculate* others are working on the problem of PURE, and possibly CACA; and if so, will no doubt be able to concentrate on that problem - and so do a more effective job. Just as Turley is concentrating on WWASPS, so as to be able to do a more effective job.
I have seen every indication they are doing what needs to be done, to do the job they have said they intend to do.
Now - the only reason I feel a need to try and provide my perspective, is a concern that kids who really ought to call Turley about this case, might not, if they see you guys going on about the involvement of these two (well, call them what you will. You know who I mean) when in truth they have nothing to do with it.
Psy - as to your very interesting post of last night - way to go dude. More power to ya.
I'm not sure I understand whats up with these emails you got from Izzy. . . Did she think she had found relevant person's home addresses - and send the email in an attempt to prove it - so as to scare you? Do I have that right?
If so, I'd guess it is more about having you fear her filing a case against you - which she would need a home address to do; as opposed to a threat to do a hit - but then again - who knows what she is capable of? She has never yet ceased to amaze me.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on June 08, 2007, 11:55:22 AM
Quote from: ""A Program's Worst Nightmare""
Now that she is outted I bet that we will see Sue flushing Izzawhore like a corn speckled floater.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 12:06:48 PM
Buzzkill, there's a big difference in parents who referred other parents to WWASP programs to recieve "a thousand dollars or so off their child's tuition" and in Sue Scheff referring to WWASP programs and receiving a pay check to her COMPANY , PURE.
According to the WWASP vs PURE transcripts, Sue Scheff continued to refer parents and their children to WWASP programs, for what? some 9 months after she started PURE? Scheff was NOT a "parent referrer" during this time period---Scheff was running a company--PURE.
No one is criticizing any parent who referred to WWASP who may have recieved reduced tuition for their child. No one is criticizing any parent, PERIOD. People are criticizing Sue Scheff who continued to refer parents and their children to WWASP programs AFTER she started PURE; and it is offensive when this behavior by Sue Scheff /PURE appears to be excused on any level.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 12:09:38 PM
What is with all the address dropping lately?
Is that supposed to imply some sort of violent threat?
Does anyone else find it as hilarious as I do the idea of Izabelle showing up at Psy's doorstep and threatening to eat him?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 08, 2007, 12:11:07 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
What is with all the address dropping lately?
Is that supposed to imply some sort of violent threat?
Does anyone else find it as hilarious as I do the idea of Izabelle showing up at Psy's doorstep and threatening to eat him?
To busy chowing down on corn to find room for Psy.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 12:14:05 PM
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 12:29:13 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Buzzkill, there's a big difference in parents who referred other parents to WWASP programs to recieve "a thousand dollars or so off their child's tuition" and in Sue Scheff referring to WWASP programs and receiving a pay check to her COMPANY , PURE.
According to the WWASP vs PURE transcripts, Sue Scheff continued to refer parents and their children to WWASP programs, for what? some 9 months after she started PURE? Scheff was NOT a "parent referrer" during this time period---Scheff was running a company--PURE.
No one is criticizing any parent who referred to WWASP who may have recieved reduced tuition for their child. No one is criticizing any parent, PERIOD. People are criticizing Sue Scheff who continued to refer parents and their children to WWASP programs AFTER she started PURE; and it is offensive when this behavior by Sue Scheff /PURE appears to be excused on any level.
I agree Anon, there is a big difference in that respect. All told, SS referred how many kids to WWASPS? Whatever the number, I seriously doubt any of these parents in this lawsuit even came close to the number of kids SS ultimately placed in a WWASPS program through PURE. Why, she even had a reference/testimonial from Randall Hinton confirming her relationship to Teen Help (who handled her "referrals") posted on PURE at one point.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 12:41:43 PM
The real question is how many of those lawsuit parents would of kept referring kids after they found out a bout their own child being mistreated? There are lots of referers out there, but how many will use their own kid as part of their business? Oh wait.. almost all of them,, disgusting bunch arent they.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on June 08, 2007, 03:13:54 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
ME HUNGRY!
STOP HURTING MY BUSINESS!
I HATE YOU ALL!
I NEED MORE FOOD!
Man, I was eating lunch when I saw that...lentil soup came out of my nose, I nearly choked. She really looks like a bus driver I had in elementary school who got her kicks running over dogs.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: BuzzKill on June 08, 2007, 03:31:57 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Buzzkill, there's a big difference in parents who referred other parents to WWASP programs to recieve "a thousand dollars or so off their child's tuition" and in Sue Scheff referring to WWASP programs and receiving a pay check to her COMPANY , PURE. According to the WWASP vs PURE transcripts, Sue Scheff continued to refer parents and their children to WWASP programs for what? some 9 months after she started PURE? Scheff was NOT a "parent referrer" during this time period---Scheff was running a company--PURE. No one is criticizing any parent who referred to WWASP who may have recieved reduced tuition for their child. No one is criticizing any parent, PERIOD. People are criticizing Sue Scheff who continued to refer parents and their children to WWASP programs AFTER she started PURE; and it is offensive when this behavior by Sue Scheff /PURE appears to be excused on any level.
Yes, yes - of corse. Not saying otherwise. Nor do I think anyone, is in anyway excusing this. Certainly that is not my intent. Nor do I believe that a law firm deciding to focus their attention on the primary source of harm, to in any way be excusing the harmful actions of other parties. I expect that if there is a case against another party, it will be brought about in due time, but someone able to give it the attention it deserves.
I was simply responding to yet another suggestion that this case is compromised b/c of Izzy, and or Sue. I only intended to point out that they are not involved, despite their pretension. This, and that I hope any kid with a potential case will not be discouraged from calling this law firm and seeing what they can do for them, b/c of the frequent, yet false suggestion, that these two women are somehow deeply involved - as if they are dictating policy in some way. Nothing could be further from the truth.
But I fear we have gone a bit off topic. Back to the issue at hand. . .
So, Izzy most certainly IS doing referrals. And she is referring to those with ties to WWASPS - those who in effect actually still work for WWASP by "escorting" to their programs - and Izzy is attempting to intimidate those who have ferreted out this information. OK, this seems beyond dispute - Psy says he can prove it - so I am sure he can indeed prove it.
I wonder if she knew this, or if she simply didn't do her home work and got caught with her pants down - and so is getting her ass kicked. Think maybe Sue gave her these names and she just trusted Sue to give her *good* sources, and so got burned? How is it she found these people anyway? Why on God's Green Earth send a parent to them? Why not admit, oh my gosh - I was wrong and I will stop this foolishness? What could it be that makes her do the things she does? It seems she has taken after her mentor and is putting some other motivation over and above that of keeping kids safe from institutional child abuse. My guess is that motivation is cash. Its all I can think of that would explain her actions. Guess we'll have to wait for another blog to see what she has to say on the subject.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on June 08, 2007, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""Guest""
ME HUNGRY!
STOP HURTING MY BUSINESS!
I HATE YOU ALL!
I NEED MORE FOOD!
Man, I was eating lunch when I saw that...lentil soup came out of my nose, I nearly choked. She really looks like a bus driver I had in elementary school who got her kicks running over dogs.
Yeah.. it was funny.. :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 04:18:34 PM
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 05:28:14 PM
Buzz. If Julie Thompson was so forthcoming in revealing her past work history with TEEN HELP to a prospective client over the telephone--it stands to reason that Isabelle Zehnder was fully aware that Julie Thompson was a past Admissions Co-ordinator with TEEN HELP, too.
It does not appear that Julie Thompson was being secretive about her past employment with WWASP's TEEN HELP.
In this email written by Isabelle Zehnder: Izzy referred this PATTI to Sue Scheff/PURE....to Sunrise Adolescent Transport....Izzy asked PATTI to use her "coaching services"...and Izzy asked for a donation.l
IT DOES NOT APPEAR that Izzy was being misled, or directed by any third party in any manner. IZZY WAS LOOKING FOR MONEY FROM AT LEAST FOUR DIRECTIONS!!!!!!!!
It appears that IZzY knew exactly what she was doing! Referring this parent to PURE, Sunrise Adolescent Transport, Positive Family Solutions....and begging for a DONATION through CAICA.
Title: Question
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 07:40:23 PM
Where did the original e-mail from Patti come from? Has anyone asked Isabelle about this?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 08, 2007, 07:46:08 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Buzz. If Julie Thompson was so forthcoming in revealing her past work history with TEEN HELP to a prospective client over the telephone--it stands to reason that Isabelle Zehnder was fully aware that Julie Thompson was a past Admissions Co-ordinator with TEEN HELP, too.
It does not appear that Julie Thompson was being secretive about her past employment with WWASP's TEEN HELP.
In this email written by Isabelle Zehnder: Izzy referred this PATTI to Sue Scheff/PURE....to Sunrise Adolescent Transport....Izzy asked PATTI to use her "coaching services"...and Izzy asked for a donation.l
IT DOES NOT APPEAR that Izzy was being misled, or directed by any third party in any manner. IZZY WAS LOOKING FOR MONEY FROM AT LEAST FOUR DIRECTIONS!!!!!!!!
It appears that IZzY knew exactly what she was doing! Referring this parent to PURE, Sunrise Adolescent Transport, Positive Family Solutions....and begging for a DONATION through CAICA.
I am not so sure if Buzz's suggestion that Izzy was fooled ( By SUE ... the horror.. oh the betrayal... )was for our ears specifically... Think as if you are Izzy....
Title: Re: Question
Post by: psy on June 08, 2007, 07:54:54 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Where did the original e-mail from Patti come from? Has anyone asked Isabelle about this?
A fake email address that no longer exists (afaik.. according to spy2k6)
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 08:17:56 PM
It's sad they go after survivors and try to fool them that they are advocates and then refer other kids to the exact same child kidnappers and programs that they were victims of themselves.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 08:30:15 PM
THE BLOG HOGS CONTINUE !!!!
Isabelle Zehnder has posted her latest BLOG which she advertises: "COMIING SOON"
"Isabelle Zehnder - Sue Scheff Continue to Help Families"
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 08:31:29 PM
Why do they keep making blogs/ Do they think this is effective marketing strategy or something? :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Nihilanthic on June 08, 2007, 08:35:04 PM
Shes posting shit that to the average idiot will appear to be written by someone else ABOUT them.
Its marketing, its PR... its trying to flood outwhat we have to say to people googling.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 08:42:00 PM
They are not marketing themselves so much as trying to cover up what is written about them on this forum and others. Google "Isabelle Zehnder" and you will see exactly what is occurring.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on June 08, 2007, 08:48:24 PM
Now that I'm not eating I took another look at Jizzabelle, and damn, would you really want that toad as a "life coach"? The woman can't even manage her eating habits, for God's sake...
Title: Re: Question
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 09:30:20 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Where did the original e-mail from Patti come from? Has anyone asked Isabelle about this?
A fake email address that no longer exists (afaik.. according to spy2k6)
What do you mean a fake e-mail? Did someone set her up? If so that's really messed up and it will make me wonder if there's more to this story. I'd like to hear the truth - this is starting to sound just too weird. Who would do this and why?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 09:53:22 PM
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 10:14:13 PM
How could this be a fake email since it originaates from Isabelle Zehnders email account? Wouldn't Isabelle Zehnder publicly DENOUNCE this, if it was a fake?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 10:15:51 PM
How could this be a fake email since it originaates from Isabelle Zehnders email account? Wouldn't Isabelle Zehnder publicly DENOUNCE this, if it was a fake?
Title: Re: Question
Post by: ZenAgent on June 08, 2007, 10:24:23 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Where did the original e-mail from Patti come from? Has anyone asked Isabelle about this?
A fake email address that no longer exists (afaik.. according to spy2k6)
What do you mean a fake e-mail? Did someone set her up? If so that's really messed up and it will make me wonder if there's more to this story. I'd like to hear the truth - this is starting to sound just too weird. Who would do this and why?
"Set her up"? What, like a sting operation? After what Zehnder sent Psy, would you want Jizzabelle to know your real name and e-mail address? C'mon...
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2007, 10:39:51 PM
SET HER UP? Isabelle Zehnder has the RIGHT to refer people to PURE, and to any transport company she chooses. Zehnder hasn't done anything wrong when she sends clients to PURE and Sunrise Adolescent Transport, now has she? And, Zehnder has every right to solicit clients for her coaching business; and it's probably just fine for her to ask for a donation for her fundraiser.
That's not "setting anybody up," is it, when Zehnder writes her own email and makes these referrals and requests?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 08, 2007, 11:19:08 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
THE BLOG HOGS CONTINUE !!!!
Isabelle Zehnder has posted her latest BLOG which she advertises: "COMIING SOON"
"Isabelle Zehnder - Sue Scheff Continue to Help Families"
It's gone. Did anybody save it, please email me.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: BuzzKill on June 08, 2007, 11:31:53 PM
How can it be a set up, when all anyone did was ask for the information and service she offers to the whole world wide web? And if anyone then takes the time to find out just who it is she is sending them to - how can you fault them for that? And if it turns out they are not an actual parent with an actual teen - but rather - are instead an advocate attempting to ferret out and halt all aspects of institutional child abuse - how can you fault them for that?
I suppose misrepresenting who she is, and what she is doing, would be beneath Izzy's ethical standards ( rolling eyes) But most folks have no problem with it - this is a well established method of investigation and truth finding.
As for her money grubbing - of corse she has every right to drum up what ever business she can. Its the American way.
I do wonder about a thing or two tho. I am troubled by this claim that donations to CaCa are tax deductible. I couldn't find where she claims she has 501C3 status; which is what she must have to be deductible on the federal level. (Anyone have anything showing that CACa has, or claims to have this status?) But she does claim the donations are tax deductible. Does she mean the donations are deductible in Washington state - but not on the federal return? If so, shouldn't that be made Very clear? If it isn't - could that be viewed by the IRS as instigating tax fraud? And if CaCa is in fact a properly designated federal non-profit - why doesn't the IRS know about this? Does Izzy know you can't just say a donation is tax deductible and have it be true? There is a process involved in gaining this status. You can't just claim it, cause you want it. Dose she know this?
Another thing she will want to be very careful about - accepting payment for her "coaching" and running the payment through her non-profit; because I am pretty sure that would be tax fraud. Tax Fraud might also be an American way - but it is one that gets American's time in federal prisons. Now, I am Not saying Izzy would ever intentionally do such a thing - but say if just by accident, a time or two, a fee for service here and there, got mis placed in the non profit account - that could be a problem. She needs to be sure she keeps very careful records; because you never know when the IRS might decide to take a look at the books. And they can be very tenacious.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 08, 2007, 11:39:02 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
How could this be a fake email since it originaates from Isabelle Zehnders email account? Wouldn't Isabelle Zehnder publicly DENOUNCE this, if it was a fake?
PATTI's email address was fake. ::ftard:: As in "Patti" didn't really exist, nor did her fictional daughter. This was similar to what 20/20 or 60 minutes do when they pose as prospective customers for crooked organizations etc... Yes it does originate from Izzy's email account and spy2k6 has the original headers proving this. It matches the subsequent email including my (old) address.
In the same manner that a friend of a friend called Sunrise up, a friend of a friend sent Izzy an email asking for information as a fictional charachter, "Patti". The reasons should be pretty obvious and were multi-faceted. It was a test to find out if she would refer to PURE. She ended up doing much more than that.
Quote from: ""Guest""
SET HER UP? Isabelle Zehnder has the RIGHT to refer people to PURE, and to any transport company she chooses. Zehnder hasn't done anything wrong when she sends clients to PURE and Sunrise Adolescent Transport, now has she? And, Zehnder has every right to solicit clients for her coaching business; and it's probably just fine for her to ask for a donation for her fundraiser.
That's not "setting anybody up," is it, when Zehnder writes her own email and makes these referrals and requests?
You are totally missing the point (probably on purpose). She claims to be an advocate against WWASP. She refers to those associated with and who work with WWASP. She claimed (explicitly) not to refer people to specific ed-cons. She did just that. She is a liar. She has the legal right to do a lot of things, but when she lies about what she does it casts a lot of doubt on her honesty, and her cridibility as an "advocate" is _nil_. There is more to this, yes, but to protect my sources, i am not revealing any more. I believe she is dangerous. Izzy has demonstrated that she is willing to threaten people for speaking out (see a few pages back). Sending somebody an email with their (albeit incorrect) home address, right after starting to speak negatively about her, could really have only been a threat... and not one of legal action. Legal action would start by sending a cease and desist letter to fornits, NOT directly to me. I think she knows this since (afaik) she has sued people before (on fornits no less) for libel and (claims to have) worked in law for 6 years.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 09, 2007, 12:04:24 AM
Isabelle Zehnder has devoted many years, time, energy and support to helping families that have suffered the ulitimate loss of a child. She grew her organization, the Coalition Against Institutionalized Child Abuse (CAICA) and created one of the most comprehensive websites of information regarding children and families. I am proud to be her friend and colleague in an industry that can be not only confusing but scary if you are in a desperate situation. Isabelle will go over and above to help parents that call her and kids that need an ear to vent to. Isabelle Zehnder deserves the top recommendation in my book.
Sue Scheff Friend and Colleague Owner Parents Universal Resource Experts, Inc.
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
These two bloggers and self-proclaimed advocates appear to be joined at the hip. Each patting the other on the back. Referring to each other and their respective websites any and every chance they get - which is frequently given this blogging frenzy of late. I've never seen anything like this. It is bizarre, IMO.
Personally? I think it is wise for folks to remember where there is smoke, there is fire.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 09, 2007, 12:11:42 AM
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 09, 2007, 03:27:52 AM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Now that I'm not eating I took another look at Jizzabelle, and damn, would you really want that toad as a "life coach"? The woman can't even manage her eating habits, for God's sake...
Funny you should say that ...
The Secret (Extended Edition) DVD ~ Rhonda Byrne
Review by Isabelle Zehnder
Thought-provoking, May 13, 2007
While I believe much of what was said on The Secret, I believe some people will take it to extremes. Already, I met a couple of women in a restaurant. Both were quite overweight, both were eating large, unhealthy breakfasts. We began discussing The Secret (these were strangers, we happened to have to sit at the same table). They said they were both going to be thin simply by thinking they will be. The law of attraction, they said.
While I believe strongly in the power of positive thinking, I also believe in order for us to get the things we want we need to use logic and do the things necessary to get there.
Otherwise, there were some good points and I think it's worth seeing.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Rude Intrusion on June 09, 2007, 11:08:45 AM
PSY wrote:
You are totally missing the point (probably on purpose). She claims to be an advocate against WWASP. She refers to those associated with and who work with WWASP. She claimed (explicitly) not to refer people to specific ed-cons. She did just that. She is a liar. She has the legal right to do a lot of things, but when she lies about what she does it casts a lot of doubt on her honesty, and her cridibility as an "advocate" is _nil_. There is more to this, yes, but to protect my sources, i am not revealing any more. I believe she is dangerous. Izzy has demonstrated that she is willing to threaten people for speaking out (see a few pages back). Sending somebody an email with their (albeit incorrect) home address, right after starting to speak negatively about her, could really have only been a threat... and not one of legal action. Legal action would start by sending a cease and desist letter to fornits, NOT directly to me. I think she knows this since (afaik) she has sued people before (on fornits no less) for libel and (claims to have) worked in law for 6 years.
ME: I couldn't agree more with your take on the situation. Keep Talking ;) _________________
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 09, 2007, 11:40:43 AM
Wait Just a Miinute ! Izzy sat herself down in a "restuarnt" with two total strangers and just started YAKKING with them about how they could THINKTHEMSELVES THIN?
After seeing this picture of Izzy that has been posted, it doesn't seem that Izzy really has the right to be judging these two women's breakfast as either "too large, or as unhealthy."
WHAT TYPE OF PERSON just sits down with STRANGERS, and joins them for breakfast, and starts talking to them?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 09, 2007, 12:45:26 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
WHAT TYPE OF PERSON just sits down with STRANGERS, and joins them for breakfast, and starts talking to them?
A friendly one.
I am wondering, however, how the topic of weight loss came up... or that wacky new-age book, "The Secret".
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 09, 2007, 01:08:06 PM
Her latest response to this thread: http://isabellezehnder-suescheff.blogspot.com/ (http://isabellezehnder-suescheff.blogspot.com/)
one particularly poignant paragraph:
Quote
Sue and Isabelle believe in team work. They not only work with each other but they work with a group of other professionals who all share the same goals - to keep families together whenever possible and to help find safe alternatives when it is not possible.
Yup I archived it this time
Now... the commented version:
Sue and Isabelle believe in team work ( :wink: ). They not only work with each other but they work with a group of other (unlicensed) professionals ( who work with WWASP ) who all share the same goals ($$$$$$) - to keep families together (by separating them) whenever possible and to help find safe alternatives (like Whitmore, Sunrise Escort Services, Red Rock etc...) when it is not possible.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 09, 2007, 01:21:18 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Wait Just a Miinute ! Izzy sat herself down in a "restuarnt" with two total strangers and just started YAKKING with them about how they could THINKTHEMSELVES THIN?
After seeing this picture of Izzy that has been posted, it doesn't seem that Izzy really has the right to be judging these two women's breakfast as either "too large, or as unhealthy."
WHAT TYPE OF PERSON just sits down with STRANGERS, and joins them for breakfast, and starts talking to them?
Yes, another Izzism -
The pot calling the kettle black ...
As for the restaurant, sounds to me it's the kind that comes equipped with a talking clown and drive-up window.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 09, 2007, 01:24:33 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
WHAT TYPE OF PERSON just sits down with STRANGERS, and joins them for breakfast, and starts talking to them?
A friendly one.
I am wondering, however, how the topic of weight loss came up... or that wacky new-age book, "The Secret".
'Cause Izzy livin' large in the waist band, expanding exponentially with each Whopper she shoves in her pie-hole, paid for with blood money...
I like the reference to her looking like Jabba the Hut...now I imagine her blogging away and occasionally reaching into a bucket to get a black lizard, which she consumes whole and still living.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 09, 2007, 01:30:30 PM
These two woman are absolutely disgusting!!! Has any program survivor emailed Sue's daughter and explained what her mother is doing to other kids and is continuing to have other children abused? Maybe if she knew what a bitch her mother was she might say something.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 09, 2007, 01:44:46 PM
Sue Scheff reportedly paraded her daughter, Ashlyn, to those WWASP seminars to pump up Sue-Sue's referral fees; and now Ashlyn is BLOGGING to push mommy's book--so this girl seems to be right there in her mom's corner. Izzy has said that Sue-Sue is busy "planning her daughter's wedding." Wonder when this event might be happening, or if this is just Izzy gossip?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 09, 2007, 01:52:25 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Wait Just a Miinute ! Izzy sat herself down in a "restuarnt" with two total strangers and just started YAKKING with them about how they could THINKTHEMSELVES THIN?
After seeing this picture of Izzy that has been posted, it doesn't seem that Izzy really has the right to be judging these two women's breakfast as either "too large, or as unhealthy."
WHAT TYPE OF PERSON just sits down with STRANGERS, and joins them for breakfast, and starts talking to them?
Yes, another Izzism -
The pot calling the kettle black ...
As for the restaurant, sounds to me it's the kind that comes equipped with a talking clown and drive-up window.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Hey now, nothing wrong with Jack's Cuisine. At least they give out cool toys like these Pez Heads ...
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 13, 2007, 02:12:56 PM
Remember, the mantra of WWASPS seminars:
"There are no accidents". Hmmm. Well that much appears to be true, now doesn't it?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 14, 2007, 02:21:29 AM
Huh? Maybe Sue Scheff can explain. Didn't she hang out at those seminars a lot?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2007, 11:53:30 AM
Any further updates on CAICA and Izzy's involvement in the referral of youth to unregulated programs by way of PURE?
Thanks!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 23, 2007, 07:40:33 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Any further updates on CAICA and Izzy's involvement in the referral of youth to unregulated programs by way of PURE?
Thanks!
While "X" was talking to Isabelle, the wrong phone number was initially given to him/her for Sunrise transport. It turns out, that the phone number was actually for a WWASP affiliated school (http://www.midwestacademy.net/ (http://www.midwestacademy.net/)). How could she make such a mistake? Did she have the number memorized? Why would that be the case?
Now... Let me ask you this: Would a parent who stumbled across that school/website have any way of knowing it was associated with WWASP? Food for thought.
Does Sue make public the names of the programs she refers to?
Figured it out yet?
There is much, much more, that will be coming out in due time. The answers to these questions _will_ disgust you.
Title: Catherine's post
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 04:40:39 PM
I think you are confused Catherine. While Isabelle is an advocate, she also knows that there is a need for safe places for out of control children, and has done her best to gather information for those who do pull their children from these abusive programs, but still need a safe place to put them. This from my own experience. I think you are angry at the wrong person, just my take.
Guest:
As far as referring transport companies, she got that information from me because a so called parent asked her for a referral to one and she didn't have one, so she called me, and I referred her to Sunrise, whom I have had to use 3 times now for my son. She has no affiliation what-so-ever. Seems to me your energy could be used in a more positive way.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 04:49:19 PM
Well Isabelle now definitely has a connection to Sunrise, as she attempted to refer someone's child to it, over the phone. That's a sad statement about these so-called "advocates". I am a survivor of an abusive program that is used shamelessly on your websites and I am disgusted. You can fool some survivors, but most of us know you are the same type who sold us out. Or to put it simply... you guys suck!
Title: Re: Catherine's post
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 05:18:01 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
I think you are confused Catherine. While Isabelle is an advocate, she also knows that there is a need for safe places for out of control children, and has done her best to gather information for those who do pull their children from these abusive programs, but still need a safe place to put them. This from my own experience. I think you are angry at the wrong person, just my take.
Guest:
As far as referring transport companies, she got that information from me because a so called parent asked her for a referral to one and she didn't have one, so she called me, and I referred her to Sunrise, whom I have had to use 3 times now for my son. She has no affiliation what-so-ever. Seems to me your energy could be used in a more positive way.
IMO, something stinks to high heaven here.
Just WHO are you and why should anyone believe anything you have to say about Isabelle Zehnder and her referrals to an unregulated, unlicensed transport company run by a former WWASPS/Teen Help employee?
Pay attention Anon. The facts speak for themselves.
:roll:
Title: Re: Catherine's post
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 05:22:14 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
I think you are confused Catherine. While Isabelle is an advocate, she also knows that there is a need for safe places for out of control children, and has done her best to gather information for those who do pull their children from these abusive programs, but still need a safe place to put them. This from my own experience. I think you are angry at the wrong person, just my take.
Guest:
As far as referring transport companies, she got that information from me because a so called parent asked her for a referral to one and she didn't have one, so she called me, and I referred her to Sunrise, whom I have had to use 3 times now for my son. She has no affiliation what-so-ever. Seems to me your energy could be used in a more positive way.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
That you Izzy? Or Sue?
Nice try - but it appears the (Mom) Cat Is Already Out of the Bag.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 05:34:47 PM
Guest, you say you used Sunrise transports 3 times for your son? Aren't you the caring, loving person to have transported your own son 3 times? Isabelle Zehnder said in her own words that "her friend, Sue who refers children to programs, had used Sunrise Adolescent Transports and was very happy with their services." So, unless you are "SUE" and unless you, SUE used Sunrise Adolescent Transport to escort your son somewhere 3 times....then your post appears to be false.
Regardless of where Izzy heard about Sunrise-the fact remains valid: Izzy referred to Sunrise Adolescent Transport, didn't she?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 05:43:38 PM
Joyce Harris was here!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 05:47:34 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Guest, you say you used Sunrise transports 3 times for your son? Aren't you the caring, loving person to have transported your own son 3 times? Isabelle Zehnder said in her own words that "her friend, Sue who refers children to programs, had used Sunrise Adolescent Transports and was very happy with their services." So, unless you are "SUE" and unless you, SUE used Sunrise Adolescent Transport to escort your son somewhere 3 times....then your post appears to be false.
Regardless of where Izzy heard about Sunrise-the fact remains valid: Izzy referred to Sunrise Adolescent Transport, didn't she?
What kind of parent needs to use a transport company 3x to transport their child?
As for IZZY - where there is smoke, there is fire. 'Nuff Said!
:flame:
Title: Transport
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 05:50:54 PM
Guest:
You totally took what I said and twisted it to suit yourself. So suit yourself.
Other:
You don't have to take my word for it, that's why we have what's called "Choices".
Title: Transport
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 05:55:26 PM
I am a very nice person/mother, and don't think your attacks on me are warrented.
As for my son and Sunrise, they are very nice people, they came and took my son from my home the 1st time, the second time because he was expelled from the school, the third time because where I placed him, students were being abused, saw it for myself, so I got him out of there the easiest way it could be done. He is very happy where he is now, and I am very happy with where he is. Hope that helps.
And, I am not SUE
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 05:58:32 PM
Perhaps Isabelle can use this as a testimonial, as she has now been confirmed, by you, to use Sunrise transport. Stop watering down the term child-advocate and call yourself Edcons, and stop using abuse to sell your programs and services, it's distasteful and hurtful to those of us who actually lived it. I hope you understand this.
Title: Selling
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 06:04:00 PM
I don't sell the programs, never have, never will, and am so not a WWASP fan. For those who know me, I know of the abuse first hand. So please don't confuse me with WWASP. Thank you.
Title: Transport
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 06:05:51 PM
Guest
You are still twisting my words, using and referring because someone asked them to find one for them are not the same thing.
Title: WWASP
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 06:08:10 PM
I almost forgot, FYI I just joined the lawsuit against WWASP
Title: Re: Transport
Post by: ZenAgent on June 25, 2007, 06:13:23 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
I am a very nice person/mother, and don't think your attacks on me are warrented.
As for my son and Sunrise, they are very nice people, they came and took my son from my home the 1st time, the second time because he was expelled from the school, the third time because where I placed him, students were being abused, saw it for myself, so I got him out of there the easiest way it could be done. He is very happy where he is now, and I am very happy with where he is. Hope that helps.
And, I am not SUE
I'm not going to speculate on who you are or attack you. I do have questions:
1. Was your son handcuffed?
2. Did he resist, and if so how did the escorts respond? Did they inform you of their policies on handling resistance?
I'm sure you won't provide this information, but what programs was your son in before reaching this unnamed haven? If you've personally observed kids being abused at a program, I encourage you to identify the facility to keep other kids from being placed there.
Title: My son
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 06:19:30 PM
My son, whom I love, was handled with care, they were very nice, even let him call me, and took very good care of him, he's even said so. No, no handcuffs, and no resistence, but I have heard that they may or may not, but not my circumstances.
Through Isabelle, the Embassy, both, the State Department, Child Welfare, Unicef, and the Magistrate of Education were all notified, given Declarations by myself and my daughter who witnessed it, and the names of the boys who were being abused. My son was also injured while there, and at the time, and even know, the facility claims no fault.
I am not going to state where he is now, but lets just say he's back in the country and safe and doing very well, and actually happy with where he is.
Title: Re: Transport
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 06:27:51 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
Guest
You are still twisting my words, using and referring because someone asked them to find one for them are not the same thing.
Oops, having a hard time keeping up with the back peddling?
Relax, Anon. We get it. IZZY referred a parent to Sunrise Adolescent Transport, who transports to WWASPS programs. Kind of hard to spin that into a positive but feel free to keep trying to unring the bell.
Izzy also refers to PURE who recommends unregulated programs like these three which .... GASP ... are no longer in operation.
Whitmore Academy Skyline Journey Red Rock Ranch Academy
Next? The ball is in your court.
:rofl:
Title: Re: My son
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 06:40:24 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
My son, whom I love, was handled with care, they were very nice, even let him call me, and took very good care of him, he's even said so. No, no handcuffs, and no resistence, but I have heard that they may or may not, but not my circumstances.
Through Isabelle, the Embassy, both, the State Department, Child Welfare, Unicef, and the Magistrate of Education were all notified, given Declarations by myself and my daughter who witnessed it, and the names of the boys who were being abused. My son was also injured while there, and at the time, and even know, the facility claims no fault.
I am not going to state where he is now, but lets just say he's back in the country and safe and doing very well, and actually happy with where he is.
Who helped you to replace your child after taking him out of this foreign based program which I presume is Tranquility Bay?
Title: Programs
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 06:46:00 PM
You might just want to get ready to add TB to the list of closing schools, at least that's the latest going around.
As for referrals, Isabelle had none for me, she did not offer, in fact, was more against me trying to replace him. I was actually given the name by another parent who I know who also pulled their kid from a WWASP program.
Backpeddling...hmm...you really like to get your heels dug in don't you?
Title: Re: Catherine's post
Post by: psy on June 25, 2007, 07:02:12 PM
Sue, I assume... or is it "Not Sue"?
Quote from: ""Guest1""
I think you are confused Catherine.
Is she confused? Was Isabelle confused, when she "accidentally" gave the "so called parent" the phone number for Midwest Academy (WWASP) instead of Sunrise. Very strange she would have that on hand/memorized. Did you give her that phone number too?
Quote
While Isabelle is an advocate, she also knows that there is a need for safe places for out of control children,
Safe places owned by convicted child abusers... yes. We know what your definition of "safe" is. Go write another Whitmore blog. (If only carpel tunnel could kill *sigh*)
Quote
and has done her best to gather information for those who do pull their children from these abusive programs, but still need a safe place to put them.
Home? Heavens no. Too much trouble. After all that abuse, little bastards are gonna need more fixing (at a "safe" program, that "isn't" WWASP) What do you care, as long as you get your 10% cut (but you don't tell the parents that, now do you?).
Quote
This from my own experience. I think you are angry at the wrong person, just my take.
Guest:
As far as referring transport companies, she got that information from me because a so called parent asked her for a referral to one and she didn't have one, so she called me, and I referred her to Sunrise, whom I have had to use 3 times now for my son.
You used an unlicenced transport service run by a bunch of ex-WWASP goons with your own son? "Why, i would use it with my own kid" Isn't that what the Sunrise owner, Julie, said about CCM? Nice people you associate with, considering your "hatred" for WWASP. Crook! Con! FRAUD! LIAR! (and I can prove that. please sue me)
Quote
She has no affiliation what-so-ever.
Are we supposed to take that on your word? Howabout we talk about YOUR affiliations. :D
Quote
Seems to me your energy could be used in a more positive way.
Dammit. Must be that "negativity" again... Fudge! Ok. Have a happy day sue. Happy happy JOY JOY happy happy...
Here... have a fluffy kitty: (http://http://www.dailykitten.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/1180597018100_2212.jpg)
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on June 25, 2007, 07:03:56 PM
I don't understand. You should have no problem with naming the facilities your son was in previously, especially the abusive one. Why would you refuse to name a facility you and your son are happy with?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 07:06:49 PM
Title: Re: Sue
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 07:19:28 PM
Wow, you're a very angry person, however, rest assured I am not Sue, did you not read the rest of my posts?
Did you now read that I am a parent who is also in the lawsuit against WWASP?
I have no affiliation to anyone other than the Elks lodge.
Cool your jets, and have a nice day too.
Title: Program
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 07:21:19 PM
ZEN
I thought I said the school was TB
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 07:26:17 PM
According to Buzzkill, Izzy talked the ear off of some WWASPS kid to the tune of $800.00 bucks and has yet to reimburse the poor kid, so please, friend of IZZY's, drop some coin into the CAICA donation bucket so your pal can put her money where her mouth is.
As for TB, from what I hear, there are dozens of people who have called for an investigation by the Jamaican authorities into allegations of abuse and apparently, gotten the same response but don't tell IZZY. Seems she thinks she's the only one. :rofl:
Title: Re: Sue
Post by: psy on June 25, 2007, 07:30:40 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
Wow, you're a very angry person, however, rest assured I am not Sue, did you not read the rest of my posts?
Did you now read that I am a parent who is also in the lawsuit against WWASP?
Then what is your motivation to defend Isabelle Zehnder?
This sounds like a conveniently timed crock personally... Especially since your explanation gives Sue a convenient "out"... claiming _you_ gave the escort recommendation to Isabelle. That is very noble of you. Yet you won't mention the abusive school your son was in, or what out of country program. You claim Isabelle asked you, of all people, for the name of an escort service when she already _has_ PURE, which recommends a host of them (not publicly named of course). She must either distrust PURE, or think that you have an immense depth of knowledge when it comes to adolescent transport. Wow. You should feel flattered.
Sorry, but I call bullshit. Your story does NOT add up. Parent my ass. You're either Sue, or reputation defender. If you're the latter, I suggest you dump your client before she drags your company's name through the mud.
Explain this: Why did Izzy accidentally confuse the number for Sunrise Transport with that of Midwest Academy? Why would she have that number on hand or memorized. Will another "Guest" come to the defense of Izzy?
Title: Jamaica
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 07:31:22 PM
I don't know Izzy, Sue or any other person than Isabelle, but go to her site, you'll see that the Magistrate of Education is finally launching an investigation, and it's true about TB, they are tranferring the kids out and home or to other facilities back here in the states, siting finances from what I hear...bullshit!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 07:33:04 PM
Izzy must be bored today because these posts by Guest 1 have Zehnder's signature "attitude" all over them.
Oh well. It's almost dinner time on the West Coast.
:P
Title: Missing the posts
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 07:44:04 PM
I said he went to TB. I just found this site so I don't know who to trust. I am not a basher, just a concerned parent and you are not treating me very nice, which is a shame. I already took heat from other program parents for even sharing what happened to my son, and the other two boys at TB because they said by telling people I was boarderline bashing WWASP, now I come here and you are bashing me. Screw it!
Title: Re: Program
Post by: ZenAgent on June 25, 2007, 07:44:45 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
ZEN
I thought I said the school was TB
No need to shout at me. Yes, I got TB, and that's not news to any of us. It's the Black Hole of hell, common knowledge. That's only one out of three, though. We've heard about the ugly, now tell us about the good and the bad...
(Whistles the riff from "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly")
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 07:45:54 PM
Guest 1 Did Isabelle offer you her "coaching services" to help you through this great traumatic time your were going through with this mis-behaving son of yours? How long was Sunrise Adolescent Transport in your home when they came in and kidnapped thiis beloved son of yours? Think the time-limit quote given by the ex-WWASP employee Julie Thompson was: "We can be in and out of your house in 4 minutes; because we don't even let the kid go to the bathroom; the kid can pee at the airport."
How long were these paid thugs in your home?
Title: Re: Missing the posts
Post by: psy on June 25, 2007, 07:50:47 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
I said he went to TB. I just found this site so I don't know who to trust. I am not a basher, just a concerned parent and you are not treating me very nice, which is a shame. I already took heat from other program parents for even sharing what happened to my son, and the other two boys at TB because they said by telling people I was boarderline bashing WWASP, now I come here and you are bashing me. Screw it!
Bashing you? hardly. I just don't see what your interest is in defending Isabelle Zehnder, or why she would be asking you for transport services, when she already has other resources at her disposal. The timing is also suspect. Sue is on the defensive right now, and has publicly employed a service known as "Reputation Defender" to go about the internet posting things to save her hide.
So, here's one good question(out of quite a few you deflected by claiming offense):
Why would Izzy be asking you for transport resources?
This is not an attack... simply a question.
Title: Safehaven
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 07:51:07 PM
You state this is a safe place to come, yet you've called me a liar, accused me of being someone else, accused me of some affiliation with Isabelle and I don't know who else...this has not been a safe place at all. Thanks for nothing and for treating me poorly. You can't trust anyone, you've made that quite clear!
So screw WWASP, so called safe sites, and SCREW YOU!
Title: Re: Safehaven
Post by: psy on June 25, 2007, 08:02:59 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
You state this is a safe place to come, yet you've called me a liar, accused me of being someone else, accused me of some affiliation with Isabelle and I don't know who else...this has not been a safe place at all. Thanks for nothing and for treating me poorly. You can't trust anyone, you've made that quite clear!
So screw WWASP, so called safe sites, and SCREW YOU!
In other words, you can't answer the question.
NEXT!!!!!!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 08:03:33 PM
Odd the parent can't disclose the name of the program her son was sent to on the advice of some other program parent. What's the problem? Afraid to find out it's on FORNITS' or ISAC's watchlist?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on June 25, 2007, 08:22:29 PM
I'm also questioning Izzy's foray into Wraparound treatment. My first instinct says, "her very involvement means a good thing is about to be exploited for a buck," and I trust my gut and my knowledge of Izzy's track record. (History, I mean. Izzy doesn't look like she runs, unless there's a Super-sized Biggie meal waiting for her...)
Her plug says if her "team" fails and decides the only recourse is residential treatment, they'll guide you through it. I wonder who they guide you to for a referral of a nice RTC? Das Fuhrer of EdCons, SS?
Title: Re: Safehaven
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 08:26:42 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
You state this is a safe place to come, yet you've called me a liar, accused me of being someone else, accused me of some affiliation with Isabelle and I don't know who else...this has not been a safe place at all. Thanks for nothing and for treating me poorly. You can't trust anyone, you've made that quite clear!
So screw WWASP, so called safe sites, and SCREW YOU!
Whoever you are - you obviously have a passive-aggressive personality which would qualify you as either a program parent or program apologist, child-referral-advocate, paid kidnapper, etc.
Don't feel bad. You certainly aren't the first or the last poser to have your ass kicked to the curb by the Fornits bullshit patrol.
:rofl:
Title: The school
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 08:27:05 PM
Alright, I will give you all one more chance.
I said Sunrise was great. They walked in, nicely, quietly woke him up, they helped him get dressed, walked him downstairs and even asked if he wanted to give us all a hug, which he didn't, obviously, they put him in the car and drove to the airport and then let him talk to me on the phone and said they were very nice. They were here for about 20 minutes. I don't remember them saying they can come in and out in 4 seconds or minutes or whatever it was you eluded to. I know some transport companies have treated kids poorly, this wasn't my experience, and we found them through another source, not through WWASP, also I don't know anything about PURE until today.
My son's school is not on the list, it's Red Rock Canyon School, you can go to their website, I believe it's www.redrockcanyonschools.com (http://www.redrockcanyonschools.com), but don't quote me as I don't have my son's file in front of me right now. Now what I want to know is why you would even want to know what school he is at?
Also, sorry for getting pissed off, but I have been through enought these past couple of months. Obviously I am not working my program.
As for Isabelle, I liked her, and she helped me through a very traumatic time, when we were in Jamaica I did not know what to do, I even called Midwest and asked them to take him back, that's where he was kicked out of, and I told them what I saw, and they were willing until TB got my email that I was pulling him and Sunrise would be there the next day so get him ready, he's going to Midwest, he was almost level 5, and that FR B found a way to drop him to level 2 so that Midwest then refused to take him, which turned out to be a good thing anyway, because he's not at Red Rock and happy, in fact, he wants to stay there and go to college in the town and move to their sober living house.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 25, 2007, 08:27:35 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
I wonder who they guide you to for a referral of a nice RTC? Das Fuhrer of EdCons, SS?
We already know that for a fact.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 08:32:30 PM
Guest 1 - you don't seem to get it.
CAICA (Isabelle Zehnder) is on ISAC's watchlist.
That's not good news.
Title: Re: The school
Post by: psy on June 25, 2007, 08:35:14 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
My son's school is not on the list, it's Red Rock Canyon School
Why am I not surprised. Anybody else care to explain the significance of that particular school?
Look, Guest1, if you are indeed a parent, you should know you were most likely the victim of ANOTHER con.
Quote from: ""ISAC""
The latest trend involves something even more sinister and deceptive.
Since people have gotten wind of the for-profit referral business, referrers are now teaming up with "child advocates."
These "advocates" will gladly tell you how awful a particular facility is, then direct you towards someone who will help you find an alternative.
We don't know what kind of financial arrangement is going on behind the scenes, but we're sure there is one.
Regardless of what they call themselves, these referrers are NOT qualified to diagnose your child over the phone and they aren't qualified to judge a program as being "good."
And don't forget - they are being PAID to tell you the facility is good.
Quite simply, the internet isn't regulated and the referral business isn't regulated.
We recommend that parents NOT use the internet to find a program for their child.
You just have no way of knowing what kind of person you are entrusting your child to.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 08:39:51 PM
Guest 1
You are part of the Turley lawsuit and never heard of Isabelle Zehnder or Sue Scheff (PURE)?
Come on, that makes no sense at all.
Title: School
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 08:41:21 PM
I don't get it when you say "explain the significance of that school"?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 08:44:00 PM
why is this "poster" replying to Catherine? Who is Catherine? Why does she assume she is confused?
Title: Just responding
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 08:46:53 PM
I know of Isabelle, no I didn't know of Pure until today, shoot me. I also didn't know about the lawsuit until a couple of days ago when another ex-program parent forwarded the site to me to sign up, which I immediately did, and am still waiting to hear from them, however, I just signed up on Friday night.
We never did get a referral from any affiliates. I told you, another ex-wwasp parent told me of the school. She had moved her daughter for the same reason as me and pulled her from WWASP programs altogether. Additionally, she found the school on her own, no referral.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 09:01:01 PM
Anybpdy have the patience to fill this parent in on RED ROCK CANYON?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on June 25, 2007, 09:07:22 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
I wonder who they guide you to for a referral of a nice RTC? Das Fuhrer of EdCons, SS?
We already know that for a fact.
Yeah, I just wanted to wind-up the Izzmo spin machine. It seems to be whirling like a dervish already.
Title: Re: School
Post by: psy on June 25, 2007, 09:15:31 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
I don't get it when you say "explain the significance of that school"?
That particular school is one that is most commonly referred to by PURE (Sue). And after the mention of Midwest, which gives Izzy plausible deniability on having the number (still weak), it really, really seems like you are not who you say you are.
Look. Maybe you are a parent. If you are, I apologize for my skepticism.
So why don't you help us all to understand a few things:
Why would Isabelle Zehnder, an "Advocate" be asking you to recommend a transport service? She has other resources at her disposal, and asking a parent for advice is _dangerous_ considering many are paid to refer.
Also... Isabelle Zehnder happened to mention on the phone that SUE (from PURE) had used Sunrise three times. She admitted she got the number from SUE SCHEFF. Not you.
Also. Isabelle Zehnder brought up the Turley lawsuit _immediately_ to "Patti"... so why would she wait so long to talk to you about it? Patti had the same story you are using (kid in TB, needs a good program)
How could she not have mentioned Sue from PURE considering it's all she blogs about.
It seems to me like your purpose here is to establish plausable deniability as to why Izzy would be referring to that service, or have the number for Midwest.
But since you are really a parent, please explain how this could possibly be.
Title: confused person
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 09:20:17 PM
Listen parent, I hope with all my heart that your child comes back safe and alive.......These programs, and don't have any education, and the whole industry LIES to parents to get money. If you are in doubt you best look up deaths in programs, and abuse. The folks on fornits are pissed off, and so am I because it is all a scam, and they abuse children.
Also I hope your child does not come home angry and hate you. Aunt of a non-survivor :flame:
Title: Parent
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 09:27:38 PM
Thank you for the apology, I truly appreciate it.
She mentioned Sue because maybe Sue did give it to her, but around that same time, Isabelle had helped me when I was going through the problems at TB, I didn't know who to trust, who to talk too, WWASP parents think I am bashing when I say what happened, and another parent referred me to Isabelle through a website I use for program parents who have been kicked off the school site, naturally, as soon as I pulled my son, I was kicked, and if it was not for this website, which I still use, I don't know what I would have done. But off topic here, Isabelle knew I had just used a company but could not remember who it was, I told her it was Sunrise and gave her the number. Sunrise was given a really hard time trying to get my son out of that God forsaken country, we almost didn't get him out.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 25, 2007, 09:30:43 PM
dbl
Title: Re: Just responding
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 09:30:44 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
I know of Isabelle, no I didn't know of Pure until today, shoot me. I also didn't know about the lawsuit until a couple of days ago when another ex-program parent forwarded the site to me to sign up, which I immediately did, and am still waiting to hear from them, however, I just signed up on Friday night.
We never did get a referral from any affiliates. I told you, another ex-wwasp parent told me of the school. She had moved her daughter for the same reason as me and pulled her from WWASP programs altogether. Additionally, she found the school on her own, no referral.
Guest1,
Let me see if I understand this:
You put your child in a WWASPS program and now you are suing them because he was abused?
Sir, Madam - may I ask you what brand and style your vacuum cleaner is since the only way you wouldn't know about this organization's LONG history of abuse allegations (which dates back to circa. 1998) would be to have literally lived in one?
Also, I see that CAICA (Isabelle Zehnder) is indeed listed on ISAC's watchlist and further, there is an entire forum dedicated to both CAICA and PURE that can be found right here on Fornits.
Don't any of these revelations concerning this so-called "advocate" concern you at all?
:question:
Title: Parent
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 09:37:49 PM
Additionally
She may have brought up the Turley lawsuit when I was first met her and was going through all this, but at the time, the lawsuit wasn't my main concern, getting my son out hell was.
As for Sue, don't know. I don't read Isabelles blogs. I barely have time to read my own emails. In fact, I have only been on the CAICA site two times since February, and that was to check out her site, and that was just about a month ago and then again a couple of days ago because I found out from a couple of other program parents that TB was shutting it's doors. Hooray!
As far as anyone referring Red Rock to me, I told you, it was another ex-program parent. I agree that it sound too convenient, but it's true, I don't know what else to tell you. I can't really answer anything else because I don't have 1st hand knowledge. I do know this: aren't all of you suppose to be helping parents and kids? Who am I suppose to trust?
Title: Re: Parent
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 09:40:08 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
I do know this: aren't all of you suppose to be helping parents and kids?
No, you are, the parent to the actual kid.
Title: Re: Parent
Post by: psy on June 25, 2007, 09:40:14 PM
THEN:
Quote from: ""Guest1""
As far as referring transport companies, she got that information from me because a so called parent asked her for a referral to one and she didn't have one, so she called me, and I referred her to Sunrise
She mentioned Sue because maybe Sue did give it to her, but around that same time...[irrelevant distraction]. But off topic here, Isabelle knew I had just used a company but could not remember who it was, I told her it was Sunrise and gave her the number. Sunrise was given a really hard time trying to get my son out of that God forsaken country, we almost didn't get him out.
Title: Re: Parent
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 09:42:04 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
Who am I suppose to trust?
Nobody. This industry has sexual predators for staff and cult leaders for owners, send your kid at your own risk. Who should you trust? Yourself, your own instincts that told you sending your kid away was a bad idea. It's a gamble sure, I hope it pays off. That we all can agree on!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 09:43:27 PM
OH and by the way this is where a lot of people who's families took that bet, and lost... tend to post. For a parent that sent their kid to TB to try and put the burden on them is ridiculous. A simple google would provide information on the facility.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 09:45:12 PM
Quote
So why don't you help us all to understand a few things:
Why would Isabelle Zehnder, an "Advocate" be asking you to recommend a transport service? She has other resources at her disposal, and asking a parent for advice is _dangerous_ considering many are paid to refer.
Also... Isabelle Zehnder happened to mention on the phone that SUE (from PURE) had used Sunrise three times. She admitted she got the number from SUE SCHEFF. Not you.
Also. Isabelle Zehnder brought up the Turley lawsuit _immediately_ to "Patti"... so why would she wait so long to talk to you about it? Patti had the same story you are using (kid in TB, needs a good program)
How could she not have mentioned Sue from PURE considering it's all she blogs about.
It seems to me like your purpose here is to establish plausable deniability as to why Izzy would be referring to that service, or have the number for Midwest.
.
These are excellent questions, psy.
Given how IZZY has dramatically ALTERED the frontpage of CAICA (see PURE/CAICA forum) it appears to me she must be very concerned about the implications of being caught "red-handed" referring parents to unlicensed, unregulated transport companies, as well as children's programs through the services of her friends and colleague, Sue Scheff.
Guest1, please take the time to answer these questions which have been posed to you in the spirit of better clarifying your purpose, not attacking your point of view.
Thanks! :D
Title: Ooops
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 09:46:15 PM
No need to be nasty. I made a mistake. No I didn't know about WWASP having abuse problems, otherwise I never would have put him there. You see, I had already made that mistake before when he was 13 and we put him in Greg Boddenheimers Back In Control at Obsidian Trails. So thanks for the kudos. What is it with you trying to make me feel horrible and treat me poorly?
I am trying to open up to you guys and you're still bashing.
Title: Re: Ooops
Post by: psy on June 25, 2007, 09:50:18 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
No need to be nasty. I made a mistake. No I didn't know about WWASP having abuse problems, otherwise I never would have put him there. You see, I had already made that mistake before when he was 13 and we put him in Greg Boddenheimers Back In Control at Obsidian Trails.
So, knowing that track record (and it's not really your fault, lots of parents get conned) Isabelle still looked to you for advice on a good transport service, which are known to be potentially, very dangerous.
Title: Re: Ooops
Post by: nimdA on June 25, 2007, 09:52:18 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
No need to be nasty. I made a mistake. No I didn't know about WWASP having abuse problems, otherwise I never would have put him there. You see, I had already made that mistake before when he was 13 and we put him in Greg Boddenheimers Back In Control at Obsidian Trails. So thanks for the kudos. What is it with you trying to make me feel horrible and treat me poorly?
I am trying to open up to you guys and you're still bashing.
Ignore the bullcrap. If you have something to say then say it, and if you have questions feel free to ask them.
Title: Re: Ooops
Post by: psy on June 25, 2007, 09:55:32 PM
edit
Title: Re: Ooops
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 09:56:35 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
What is it with you trying to make me feel horrible and treat me poorly?
That's what programs, escorts and coercive forced behavior modification consist of, basically. Only you have no choice and can never turn it off and it's real people in your face not just words on a screen.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 09:59:34 PM
Guest l Isabelle Zehnder has written articles DENOUCING Teen Escort services....so why would she refer any parent to such a service?
That's a valid question.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 10:03:05 PM
Guest 1 ---You used Sunrise to escort your son from TB to Red Rock.
Where did Sunrise escort your son the other two times?
Also: who advised you to have an ESCORT SERVICE bring your son home from Jamaica? Didn't you think you--the PARENT -- should go to a foreign country to bring your own son home?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 10:04:12 PM
Another valid question:
After going through the hell of TB: is escorting and transferring to Red Rock Canyon the best place to treat an abusive placement and potentially PTSD? Is the best place to treat an abusive institutionalization another institution?
I have heard of Red Rock Canyon, the same psychiatrist who referred me to Provo Canyon was pushing that school. It smells like the rest.
Of course compared to TB, I bet that kid is sending gracious letters home to his mom. But that's not real, it's relative improvement of living conditions.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 25, 2007, 10:09:51 PM
wow.. no comment.. keep at it boys.
Title: Too many questions
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 11:02:29 PM
I don't know why she would say they are bad and then refer them, maybe she asked because I said I had good luck with them, how can I say what was in her head?
I used them 1st to Midwest, then to TB, then to RR. I also used them from TB to RR because it was easier for me to have them go and pull him. I was scared to go by myself, as the last time I was there they would not let me on campus because of what I was wearing, I figured I would have lots of trouble, and Sunrise had experience pulling kids out of there. That's why I used them, and as it turned out, they had problems too, which they later told me they couldn't even believe it.
My son is not mad at me, and frankly it was a program or juvenile hall, he didn't have much of a choice, still doesn't.
I can slap myself until I am purple, but the fact is I did what I did, and I am now trying to fix it. This is not something I wanted to do by choice, but I did have a choice on where I placed him, and I blew it again. Don't think I don't beat myself up every day, even after being warned by staff from MW not to send him to TB, but would I listen? NO! Brainwashed. Had to stick to what I said would be the consequence, because that's how the program goes. You have to stick to your guns or else your words are empty, yada yada yada.
So that's it pretty much in a nutshell, literally.
Title: Re: Too many questions
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 11:05:56 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
I don't know why she would say they are bad and then refer them, maybe she asked because I said I had good luck with them, how can I say what was in her head?
I used them 1st to Midwest, then to TB, then to RR. I also used them from TB to RR because it was easier for me to have them go and pull him. I was scared to go by myself, as the last time I was there they would not let me on campus because of what I was wearing, I figured I would have lots of trouble, and Sunrise had experience pulling kids out of there. That's why I used them, and as it turned out, they had problems too, which they later told me they couldn't even believe it.
My son is not mad at me, and frankly it was a program or juvenile hall, he didn't have much of a choice, still doesn't.
I can slap myself until I am purple, but the fact is I did what I did, and I am now trying to fix it. This is not something I wanted to do by choice, but I did have a choice on where I placed him, and I blew it again. Don't think I don't beat myself up every day, even after being warned by staff from MW not to send him to TB, but would I listen? NO! Brainwashed. Had to stick to what I said would be the consequence, because that's how the program goes. You have to stick to your guns or else your words are empty, yada yada yada.
So that's it pretty much in a nutshell, literally.
I believe you. Don't let these forum facists drive you away. Just stick to the truth. They do this sort of thing to their own members all the time, and they regularly run people who try to help off.
Title: RR
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 11:07:56 PM
I don't know whose pushing what school, I just want to make it clear that my girlfriend found it on her own and referred it to me.
I believe in my heart that it's a safe place.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 11:10:14 PM
You can only follow your heart. Keep at it and don't let these internet tough guys bully you. Good for you for getting your precious child the help they need. Don't be at all afraid to speak out about doing the right thing!
Title: Thanks Guest
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2007, 11:15:27 PM
:wink: Thank you. I still feel scared about posting my experience, because some people who said I could tell them what happened, later felt like I was bashing, which I wasn't, and I would hate to be taken off that website because I have made so many friends, but I am sure I have made some enemies too because some people just didn't want to hear what we went through, or they tried to change it into something other than what it was, candy coat it, call it whatever you want but abuse, but it was abuse, no way around that.
As for the rumor of TB closing it's doors, I hope that's true, and I am waiting for confirmation so we can celebrate.
Title: Re: Thanks Guest
Post by: psy on June 25, 2007, 11:47:43 PM
Quote from: ""Guest1""
:wink: Thank you. I still feel scared about posting my experience, because some people who said I could tell them what happened, later felt like I was bashing, which I wasn't, and I would hate to be taken off that website because I have made so many friends, but I am sure I have made some enemies too because some people just didn't want to hear what we went through, or they tried to change it into something other than what it was, candy coat it, call it whatever you want but abuse, but it was abuse, no way around that.
As for the rumor of TB closing it's doors, I hope that's true, and I am waiting for confirmation so we can celebrate.
Look, Sue
Cut it out. You first claimed to have been the one to initially give Isabelle the recommendation to Sunrise. Both Sue and Izzy had motive to do that, but Izzy wouldn't have claimed that, becuase she already disclosed to "Patti" where she got the recommendation from. You should talk to Izzy about her big fat mouth becuase she claims that you, Sue Scheff, was the one to recommend Sunrise Transport. She said you had used it _three times_ (coincidence?). Clearly, lady, you have no clue how much of a security leak you have.
You also recommend Red Rock, which Sue is notorious for referring to. You also mention you had correspondence with Isabelle Zehnder about Midwest academy, attempting (poorly) to establish plausible deniability as to how she would have that phone number _memorized_.
Look. I went "fishing" today when I mentioned Midwest (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=267113#267113). I was expecting somebody to show up with an excuse. The very next post was you, "Guest1"... and guess what you provided: excuses. Badly constructed excuses full of holes both factual and logical that I could pick apart all day long. The probability that you are a parent is _nil_. Stop pretending. You are fooling nobody. All you've done is shown everybody that WWASP associations are something that Sue and Izzy desperatly want covered up.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on June 25, 2007, 11:52:10 PM
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 12:00:37 AM
A GAL - guardian ad litem - a child advocate......referred me to a drug rehab....I never did drugs.... I had just turned 15...it was 4 days before Christmas...I was kidnapped and lied to...was never drug tested...or had any kind of professional evaluation...I have no history of drug use in family genetics....the program was a second generation straight inc.....it has been 20 years and I will never speak to my parents again.....If you want your children to midlessly obey send them away and when they are free they will never speak to you again...you don't know what you are doing sending children away to be abused and damaged...STOP
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 26, 2007, 12:07:51 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
you don't know what you are doing sending children away to be abused and damaged...STOP
Don't worry. "Guest1" isn't a real parent.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 12:15:37 AM
Guest1 does not want to answer a few basic questions:
Why is her original post directed to "Catherine?" Why would Isabelle Zehnder--who links to Sue Scheff/PURE constantly-- ask a distraught "parent" for a referral to a teen escort company; when PURE has a detailed list for Zehnder to refer to? Izabelle Zehnder told PATTI that "her friend Sue" had used Sunrise Adolescent Transport 3 times and was happy with their services."
Guest1 posts with a "story" that seems to deflect from Isabelle Zehnder's MISTAKE of giving PATTI the phone number to Midwest Academy--a WWASP facility; when Zehnder meant to give PATTI the phone number to Sunrise Adolescent Transport.
Then Guest 1 post that she gave Isabelle the name of Sunrise Adolescent Transport. It seems a bit convient that Guest1 just happened to use Sunrise 3 times---the same number of times that Isabelle said "SUE" used Sunrise.
It also seems a bit strange that Guest1 just happened to have a son who needed to be "rescued from Tranquility Bay." That was the same reason PATTI came in contact with Isabelle.
Does anyone else reading these post have the feeling that Guest1 just seems has too too too much in common with IZZY; and that Guest1 postings seem just a little too contrived? Could Izzy possibly be pulling a hoax on fornits to cover her mistake of referring to Sunrise Adolescent Transports and Sue; and for accidently giving out the phone number to Midwest Academy--a WWASP program?
Title: Paranoid
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 12:26:00 AM
:flame: You're paranoid. And I am putting myself at risk for even posting here, because enough program parents know who I am just by my story, so I might as well sign my name to my posts. So with that said...you can think whatever you want, you are a foolish person, and I feel sorry for you.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 12:26:45 AM
Joyce Harris Was HERE!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 26, 2007, 12:30:56 AM
I don't believe it's Izzy. Izzy knows I have the full "Patti" correspondence and wouldn't have made such mistakes. Sue probably doesn't have the correspondence. She would be absolutely LIVID if she knew how much of a loudmouth Izzy was. Also, if you look carefully, it's not Izzy's ass that is getting covered here. Example: Izzy looks _worse_ by blindly taking advice on an escort from a parent than if she had taken advice from a "trusted" source such as PURE.
Title: me
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 12:37:39 AM
I didn't recommend Red Rock, you're twisting my words again. I also had my kid at Sorensons, does that mean I am recommending them too by telling you?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 12:38:53 AM
HOLY fuck.. YOU had your kid at Soreson?
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPE....
Title: Re: Paranoid
Post by: psy on June 26, 2007, 12:40:08 AM
Quote
I might as well sign my name to my posts.
You might as well
Title: Re: me
Post by: psy on June 26, 2007, 12:59:54 AM
Guest1,
Normally, I am one of the first and only people on Fornits to jump to the defense of a program parent under verbal attack. I even created a forum for that purpose (see my signature). If there was any inkling in my mind that you could possibly be a real parent, I would err on the side of caution and calmly explain to you what is going on; however, I have discussed these postings with a number of program parents and the unilateral consensus is that YOUR STORY IS BULLSHIT ! There are far, far, too many coincidences, far too many unanswered/ignored questions, far too many factual holes, far too little logic... Come on now.
Title: Re: me
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 01:01:19 AM
Quote from: ""Guet1""
I didn't recommend Red Rock, you're twisting my words again. I also had my kid at Sorensons, does that mean I am recommending them too by telling you?
Man, did your kid EVER live at home?
What's next? Three Springs? Eckerd?
:roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 01:15:19 AM
Psy - is it possible this is a parent-from-hell the likes of which we have not seen polluting Fornits in quite some time?
So far, this "parent" has confessed to having her kid in the following programs:
Obsidian Trails (where Eddie Lee died from restraint) Sorensons Midwest Academy Tranquility Bay Red Rock Academy
Or is this IZZY trying to salvage what's left of her credibility but as usual, failing miserably?
Title: Me
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 01:28:10 AM
You obviousy haven't spoken to the right ones. Like I said, those who know my story, would know immediately who I am, I am hanging my ass out in the breeze.
Yup, at Sorensons, and also kicked out.
I don't really feel safe talking here anymore, and I am tired of explaining myself. Believe what you want, and thanks for nothing.
V
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 01:40:14 AM
"Thanks for nothing"
What did you come here looking for? I thought you just wanted to clarify something, but now you make it seem like fornits was offering something to you, and you are dissatisfied? What is fornits offering you and where can I get some?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 01:51:40 AM
This so-called well-speaking parent dissolved into a TOUGH-TALKING CUSSING PERSON rather quickly, huh? Lose your edge there, poster? Forget the role you were playing there at the end? Thought you were better than THAT!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 02:21:38 AM
This is Sandy not Izzy or Sue. See more on Izzy's myspace profile if you can.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 26, 2007, 02:46:05 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This is Sandy not Izzy or Sue. See more on Izzy's myspace profile if you can.
Well, Sandy, it appears I overlooked the one _other_ person who did have access to (some of) the communication between Patti and Izzy. Perhaps you could explain your role in helping to out Izzy. Now that I know who you are, I know that you were DEFINITELY lying about first hearing about Sue today.
Quote from: ""Isabelle Zehnder""
----------------- Original Message ----------------- From: Isabelle Date: May 8, 2007 5:54 PM
Hi Sandy,
I e-mailed her my friend's name and website to contact for safer programs. Have her go to www.helpyourteens.com (http://www.helpyourteens.com) and call the 800 number (which is 800-730-7260). Either Marie or Sue should answer, both have experience in finding safer alternatives.
Please ask Patty if she received my e-mail, would you? I included all that info in there. She can also call me if she needs to - 360-903-3951.
Take care, hope all goes well with her nephew. And no - we don't want to see what happens if there's no payment.
Any word on how Desiree's doing?
Love, Isabelle
Recognize that? Or do I need to elaborate?
Title: Guessing
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 03:20:47 AM
3 strikes and you're out.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 03:22:19 AM
I didn't know TSW had a kid? :wink:
Title: Re: Guessing
Post by: psy on June 26, 2007, 03:53:03 AM
Quote from: ""V""
3 strikes and you're out.
I suck at guessing games, and haven't found any matches to programs on Fornits. Why don't you just identify yourself so I can apologize for making a mistake. If you are a parent, and this is just one _massive_ coincidence, I am truly sorry.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 26, 2007, 04:02:07 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I didn't know TSW had a kid? :wink:
:o
I do?????
Title: Re: Guessing
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 04:12:31 AM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""V""
3 strikes and you're out.
I suck at guessing games, and haven't found any matches to programs on Fornits. Why don't you just identify yourself so I can apologize for making a mistake. If you are a parent, and this is just one _massive_ coincidence, I am truly sorry.
What kind of parent puts their kid in 5 programs?
Certainly not one who is worthy of an apology from REAL child advocates and activists.
Don't worry Psy. You have nothing to be sorry about.
Title: Bad mommy
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 04:46:21 AM
Obsidian-lit the hillside on fire, they didn't like that.
Federal Offence/DA so off to Midwest-kicked out Sorensons-kicked out TB-Pulled him myself Red Rock-last stop
any questions.
Psy, no need for an apology,
Title: Re: Bad mommy
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 05:06:50 AM
Quote from: ""V""
Obsidian-lit the hillside on fire, they didn't like that.
Federal Offence/DA so off to Midwest-kicked out Sorensons-kicked out TB-Pulled him myself Red Rock-last stop
any questions.
Psy, no need for an apology,
Yeah, I have a question.
Why is your child being subjected to abusive quackery as therapy?
If you really cared about your kid, you would get him some real help.
You disgust me.
I hope your child survives being your child.
:flame:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 05:18:49 AM
Psy seemed to only be offering an "apology" if this Guest1 happened to be a real parent---but since this is obviously not a real parent; the apology was just surely a mere gesture.
What started out as a clarification last evening; now reads as an extended hoax this early morning. It seems odd that any postings involving the seemingly misdeeds of Isabelle Zehnder-- Izzy's referral to a teen transport company; Izzy's referral to Sue Scheff/Pure's known abusive programs--brings up a posting about TSW and some posting about his "past." And as always, these references to TSW's past are usually questioned ;and seem to be based on idle gossip. Why's that? Why does a discussion about Izzy and her connection to teen transport and PURE referrals generate a post about TSW's past? Unless TSW was posting as an ANON/Guest, he didn't appear to evn be a part of this discussion, did he?
Title: Re: Bad mommy
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 05:21:56 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""V""
Obsidian-lit the hillside on fire, they didn't like that.
Federal Offence/DA so off to Midwest-kicked out Sorensons-kicked out TB-Pulled him myself Red Rock-last stop
any questions.
Psy, no need for an apology,
Yeah, I have a question.
Why is your child being subjected to abusive quackery as therapy?
If you really cared about your kid, you would get him some real help.
You disgust me.
I hope your child survives being your child.
:flame:
And you are suing WWASPS for abusing your kid by proxxy?
I hope your kid turns 18 soon, gets a hefty settlement from WWASPS, and uses it to get some real therapy so he can have a decent chance at a happy, healthy life FAR FAR AWAY FROM SOMEONE WHO PBVIOUSLY ISN'T FIT TO CALL THEMSELVES A PARENT.
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 05:55:43 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Psy seemed to only be offering an "apology" if this Guest1 happened to be a real parent---but since this is obviously not a real parent; the apology was just surely a mere gesture.
What started out as a clarification last evening; now reads as an extended hoax this early morning. It seems odd that any postings involving the seemingly misdeeds of Isabelle Zehnder-- Izzy's referral to a teen transport company; Izzy's referral to Sue Scheff/Pure's known abusive programs--brings up a posting about TSW and some posting about his "past." And as always, these references to TSW's past are usually questioned ;and seem to be based on idle gossip. Why's that? Why does a discussion about Izzy and her connection to teen transport and PURE referrals generate a post about TSW's past? Unless TSW was posting as an ANON/Guest, he didn't appear to evn be a part of this discussion, did he?
Talk about past misdeeds...Hey, Sue, do you remember this lil' nugget from the WWASP v. PURE case?
"WWASP specifically points to a document reportedly written by Ashlyn Scheff in which she reports her mother hit her in the face and grabbed her by the neck. The document reportedly authored by Ashlyn is hearsay and highly inflammatory and prejudicial. It is not relevant and will only be used by the Plaintiff to improperly influence the passions of the jury,"[/b]
I don't see a denial, Sue.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:32:08 AM
Sue Scheff's own daughter "reportedly" accusing Scheff of this type of cruel, mean physical parental abuse? If this is true, whatever could cause Sue Scheff, a mother, to attack her own daughter in such a vicious manner? And Scheff is writing a book titled like "At My Wits End" which has been said to discuss the trials and tribulations of raising a troubled teen daughter. If these descriptions or Sue Scheff's abuse against this girl are true, it appears that the daughter might could be writing her own "MOMMY DEAREST" book.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:43:02 AM
Joyce Harris WAS here!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:46:41 AM
Who has the fascination or belief that ever posting relating to Isabelle Zehnder is made by by Joyce Harris? It is almost like someone is stalking her. Strange, trolling-type behavior.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 11:49:57 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Sue Scheff's own daughter "reportedly" accusing Scheff of this type of cruel, mean physical parental abuse? If this is true, whatever could cause Sue Scheff, a mother, to attack her own daughter in such a vicious manner? And Scheff is writing a book titled like "At My Wits End" which has been said to discuss the trials and tribulations of raising a troubled teen daughter. If these descriptions or Sue Scheff's abuse against this girl are true, it appears that the daughter might could be writing her own "MOMMY DEAREST" book.
It's public record. Scheff filed a motion during the WWASP case, and the "reported" incident above was something she wanted suppressed - badly.
It's not a sign of good parenting skills to have a daughter in a WWASP facility and a son in Oak Ridge Military Academy. It seems like her solution to parenting is "ship 'em off". Scheff's lucky she wasn't arrested if the alleged assault of her daughter took place. If it's true, and I don't see any attempt to refute the attack, just suppress it, Scheff's got some serious issues that go beyond what we already know about her.
Now - why the fuck would anyone go to this woman for anything to do with children?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 12:13:33 PM
Quote from: ""Isabelle Zehnder""
----------------- Original Message ----------------- From: Isabelle Date: May 8, 2007 5:54 PM
Hi Sandy,
I e-mailed her my friend's name and website to contact for safer programs. Have her go to www.helpyourteens.com (http://www.helpyourteens.com) and call the 800 number (which is 800-730-7260). Either Marie or Sue should answer, both have experience in finding safer alternatives.
Please ask Patty if she received my e-mail, would you? I included all that info in there. She can also call me if she needs to - 360-903-3951.
Take care, hope all goes well with her nephew. And no - we don't want to see what happens if there's no payment.
Any word on how Desiree's doing?
Love, Isabelle
Priceless....
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 12:16:39 PM
Assuming this report of Sue Scheff's physical attack on her daughter is true; and knowing that Scheff sent both her children to programs, rather than keep her kids at home and raise them herself: does anyone know what role these kids' father play in the lives of these kids?
Just have to wonder why the father of these Scheff children didn't step in and take care of these children, like many fahers do these days. Where is this father in this picture?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Bunnie on June 26, 2007, 03:47:06 PM
::dove:: don't look now I think the bird Pooped. :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 04:04:58 PM
Quote
From: Isabelle Date: May 8, 2007 5:54 PM
Hi Sandy,
I e-mailed her my friend's name and website to contact for safer programs. Have her go to www.helpyourteens.com (http://www.helpyourteens.com) and call the 800 number (which is 800-730-7260). Either Marie or Sue should answer, both have experience in finding safer alternatives.
Marie Peart a.ka. Marie Linge (PURE INC. Educational Consultant) has been forced to resign from two other teen program marketing agencies for acts of dishonesty and has been indicted with fraud charges and lying under oath. (See Salt Lake Tribune Articles Below) Salt Lake Tribune GRAND JURY INDICTS PAIR FOR FRAUD AT CHRISTMAS STORES Date: 11/06/1992 Category: Business Page: D7 Keywords: Frauds-Scams, Courts
Click Here To View Article COOPERATIVE RETAILER WON'T GO TO PRISON FOR FRAUD Date: 11/18/1993 Category: Local Page: B5 Keywords: Buisness, Frauds-Scams
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 05:07:00 PM
It would seem to be the "same Marie." The only MARIE I've only heard of that worked with Sue Scheff at PURE is Marie Peart.
Anyone else ever heard of another "MARIE" who can be reached at the PURE Organization?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 05:24:58 PM
Marie Peart also has a referral company.
http://http://www.parentandteenresources.com
Title: clarity
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 05:27:24 PM
I am the parent who referred Guest 1 to Isabelle Zehnder. What she relates is the truth. When Guest 1 contacted me about what had happened to her son and other boys at TB, I immediately contacted Isabelle. Through her investigation and constant correspondence, not only was Guest 1's child removed, but the authorities were placed on notice that intervention and investigation must be conducted for the safety of the children in that facility.
The Ministry of Education and Youth in Kingston, Jamaica responded to CAICA’S complaint to confirm that they have launched an investigation. There are rumors that the facility may be closing.
What Guest 1 failed to clarify is the reason she referred the transport company.
When Isabelle was working with "Patti Atwood", she called me and told me that this family was moving Patti's nephew out of TB. Patti needed guidance on how to accomplish getting the child out. Isabelle asked me what transport co Guest 1 had used to pick up her child from TB. I didn't know and told her to contact Guest 1. Isabelle did not have any knowledge of who to trust for transporting a child out of Tranquilly Bay; having never referred a transport co.
“Also... Isabelle Zehnder happened to mention on the phone that SUE (from PURE) had used Sunrise three times. She admitted she got the number from SUE SCHEFF. Not you.” This is NOT TRUE, never happened.
Isabelle worked about three weeks with Patti Atwood. The whole situation turned out to be a ploy performed by members of this board, seeking some way to discredit Isabelle and Caica. She was duped.
I have been working with Isabelle since bringing my child home from a school that was "highly" recommended. My doubts were confirmed about the school when I came across Caica's website. Since bringing my child home, Isabelle has been actively coaching me and my child; so a return to any facility would not be necessary. At no charge.
I have read some of what has been posted about Isabelle and Sue. Whatever your motives, it is apparent that this is slanderous and false information. I personally have witness her diligence when involved in assisting families who have believed that the "program" was the answer to their out of control child only to find that their child was being abused.
I see that Isabelle creates results. She works for the best interest of the children and their families. I see that you have dedicated your existence to bashing those who work for a solution for trouble children and their families. Perhaps someday you will find a way to truly support change.
This board not only has no valuable purpose it also seems to be criminal.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 05:42:15 PM
:wave: Hello Izzy,
This has your signature written all over it.
If it is not, which is highly suspect... You have just been ripped off.
I have been working with Isabelle since bringing my child home from a school that was "highly" recommended. My doubts were confirmed about the school when I came across Caica's website. Since bringing my child home, Isabelle has been actively coaching me and my child; so a return to any facility would not be necessary. At no charge.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 05:43:38 PM
LOL - and we should believe this parent who has seemingly appeared out of thin air to sing the praises of Isabelle Zehnder because ... gasp ... Isabelle was DUPED ... and oh, by the way, she has been providing FREE counseling services ...
:lol:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 05:46:56 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
LOL - and we should believe this parent who has seemingly appeared out of thin air to sing the praises of Isabelle Zehnder because ... gasp ... Isabelle was DUPED ... and oh, by the way, she has been providing FREE counseling services ...
:lol:
Whoops - I mean free "C O A C H I N G" Services.
Hmmm. How's that saying go ... there's no such thing as a free lunch?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 05:54:05 PM
Would someone please explain how one "dupes" somebody into referring children to unregulated teen treatment programs and transport services? Does Isabelle Zehnder not have a mind of her own? The power to make choices? The ability to determine right from wrong? Is she not a child but a woman in her 50's? How was she "duped"?
Title: Re: clarity
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 06:18:40 PM
Quote from: ""Not Buyin' it""
Since bringing my child home, Isabelle has been actively coaching me and my child; so a return to any facility would not be necessary. At no charge.
I see that Isabelle creates results.
This parent is pathetic, and leaches like Isabelle seek out these people to fleece. Yes, I know you love your new program more than the old one. It's free because you are one of Isabelle's first clients.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 06:39:07 PM
Duped? Sounds to me like it's the parent/client who is confused!
Read Isabelle Zehnder's blog, which in her own words, explains in considerable detail the NATURE and PURPOSE of her association with Sue Scheff, PURE and other professionals.
Title: MW v Transport
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 06:43:38 PM
One more thing I failed to clarify as to why Isabelle gave the MW phone number to Patti was because I pulled my MW folder, and pulled the Sunrise contract. It had been over a year, and I had several numbers written on the contract sheet. I gave all of them to Isabelle, one of which I noted was not the same area code. So that was my mistake, not Isabelle's. She only forwarded the numbers had given her.
Title: Re: MW v Transport
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 06:55:32 PM
Quote from: ""V""
One more thing I failed to clarify as to why Isabelle gave the MW phone number to Patti was because I pulled my MW folder, and pulled the Sunrise contract. It had been over a year, and I had several numbers written on the contract sheet. I gave all of them to Isabelle, one of which I noted was not the same area code. So that was my mistake, not Isabelle's. She only forwarded the numbers had given her.
Sure, makes sense to me.
Izzy is not to blame. Some phantom parent/client is at fault.
I tell ya what, why don't you post your email address so one of the Fornits Bullshit Patrol Volunteers can contact you and take your official statement? Let's get this cleared up now before we waste anymore of Fornits valuable bandwidth, shall we?
:rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 06:59:57 PM
Doesn't Izzy advertise on CAICA that she only gives out 30 MIINUTES of FREE COACHING...then the clock starts running??????
Izzy did quote her fees. $2,500 for 3 months of coaching which included the following: One hourly coaching session BY PHONE to the parent. One hourly coaching session BY PHONE to the child.
Now, why would Izzy coach this "posting parent and her kid" for free, when Izzy can demand such fees? Is Izzy also admitting she appears to be a very poor business woman?
And Izzy is claiming she was "duped?" Izzy had mails flying to SANDY and PATTI ..and Izzy had the phones ringing to PATTI. Izzy may claim she was "duped," BUT each posted email reveals that this so-called- DUPED WOMAN was referring to Sue Scheff, and Marie at PURE. Izzy's own words reveal that she referred to Sunrise Adolescent Transport.
Izzy has the RIGHT to refer to anyone she chooses, doesn't she?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 07:05:22 PM
Izzy's Coaching fees: The sessions above were weekly sessions.
Title: email
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 07:11:48 PM
You want me to post my email here for everyone to see, after all the name calling, and bashing me? I only think you would use it to bombard me with spam, or email me terrible messages. I have heard of that being done to parents who had their kids in the program. And just for the record, I had no choice or else the DA would prosecute, so quit calling me a terrible parent, I did everything for my son to keep him from having to go this route, and you people know that.
Furthermore, I only came here by accident while I was surfing for more information on the closure of TB. I am sorry you don't like Isabelle, but she helped my daughter and me through a terrible time, and I don't understand why you have it out for her. She's helped so many families, I don't get it. If you bash advocates, there will be no one left to police these programs, or get the word out. You're doing everyone an injustice, at least that's how I see it.
Title: Re: email
Post by: psy on June 26, 2007, 07:24:57 PM
Quote from: ""v""
If you bash advocates, there will be no one left to police these programs, or get the word out. You're doing everyone an injustice, at least that's how I see it.
Isabelle Isn't an advocate. She is PR for PURE (Sue Scheff). She only hates programs she doesn't refer to by proxy(sue). Why do you think Whitmore isn't on her watchlist. Why do you think she blogs on and on and on defending Whitmore (at the same time as Sue Scheff). The text of many blogs are often even IDENTICAL to Sue's.
It's not like anybody can debate that Whitmore was an abusive school (http://http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsnz.asp#whitmore). Cheryl Sudweeks was charged 7 counts of child abuse, and plead no contest, YEARS AGO and Izzy and sue are STILL defending the place (which Sue received 10% of the tuition for each child she referred to that hellhole). Why? Why don't they say "oops, we were DUPED"?
Isabelle Zehnder is not an advocate for any cause other than her own interests, and those of her crooked "friends". Save me the bullshit. If you really sent your kid to all those schools you would have to be the DUMBEST fucking parent alive (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h0z6vkcY10). It's not like a simple Google search doesn't reveal MOUNTAINS of evidence against each and every one of those places.
Shit. If you are a parent you deserve a place in the Fornits hall of fame.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 07:31:32 PM
Quote
If you bash advocates, there will be no one left to police these programs, or get the word out. You're doing everyone an injustice, at least that's how I see it.
No one is bashing advocates. Izzy and Sue aren't advocates. Do you know what an advocate is?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on June 26, 2007, 07:41:58 PM
An advocate is anyone who thinks that sleeping with program moms is a good idea. ::seg::
Title: bashing
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 07:52:18 PM
Psy
Then it's a good thing you don't have my name. You are about the most unbelievable person I have ever spoken to. I had no choice! Did you hear that? I didn't get my kid kicked out of two of the schools, so do the math. It's not like I wanted to send him. I don't freakin' google, not until recently, I didn't know, I heard rumors, other parents squashed those rumors, probably because they were getting kickbacks from WWASP for referrals, like they tried to suck me into. You think I enjoy being away from my son? Do you honestly think I wanted him in an abusive program? You're absolutely crazy. And I am done with the inquisition.
I hope you find what you're looking for. Best wishes. V.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 08:01:21 PM
I have a hard time believing this is a real parent, that's just me though.
Title: Re: bashing
Post by: psy on June 26, 2007, 08:10:11 PM
Quote from: ""v""
I heard rumors, other parents squashed those rumors, probably because they were getting kickbacks
Like Sue was getting from Whitmore? If that was her deal with one school, do you really think she would have issues doing it with others? And it's not like she hasn't worked with WWASP before (Yes, Even AFTER starting PURE).
You understand that parents get kickbacks for referrals, and yet you think Izzy is off the hook by taking referrals from you, if, indeed that happened, because, as i have already said, this is a little too much of a coincidence. Why do you wish to say "I DID IT!! IT WAS ME !! NOT SUE !!" when, clearly, Sue Scheff is the only person to gain by the deniability you are attempting to give her. And don't think it isn't VERY likely that you are Sue Scheff. Her own testimony in the PURE vs. WWASP case shows she was very familiar with using false identities on discussion forums for purposes of propaganda.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 08:18:14 PM
I don't know. I don't know anything about that. I cannot speculate on something I don't know, or people I have never met, or only have spoken to on the phone. You're asking questions I can't answer.
Title: Re: bashing
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 08:21:40 PM
Quote from: ""v""
Psy
Then it's a good thing you don't have my name. You are about the most unbelievable person I have ever spoken to. I had no choice! Did you hear that? I didn't get my kid kicked out of two of the schools, so do the math. It's not like I wanted to send him. I don't freakin' google, not until recently, I didn't know, I heard rumors, other parents squashed those rumors, probably because they were getting kickbacks from WWASP for referrals, like they tried to suck me into. You think I enjoy being away from my son? Do you honestly think I wanted him in an abusive program? You're absolutely crazy. And I am done with the inquisition.
I hope you find what you're looking for. Best wishes. V.
"V".. the question is did you find what you were looking for?
Did you come to fornits to find truth or to defend your decision? If you are looking for sympathy... I am sure you didnt find it. However I must say.. if you are truely a parent in crisis. I never once heard you ask about your son and his situation and if anyone had any bad experience at RRCR. I have been observing this post and waiting for the questions to survivors about what takes place behind closed doors when you arent there. That is what I would be asking. I would be trying to pick the brains of the folks to get the most answers I could out of people so I could determine if I FINALLY made a good decision. After 2 bad decisions I would be in a panic. I would also not trust anyone who didnt at a minimum proper creditials that would lead me to an appropriate choice. What I did hear is defense of "your" decision and a lot about Isabelle Zehnder.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 08:24:00 PM
I second the motion to nominate this parent to the Fornit's Hall of Shame.
Title: Defensive
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 08:30:52 PM
Yes, I am defensive, and I already know Sorensons was a bad decision. At this point would it have mattered what I asked about RRCS? If you guys had something to tell me, don't you think you should have told me?
Yes and No as far as finding what I was looking for...more information on TB, nothing on RRCS.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 08:36:07 PM
Sorenson's was a bad choice, eh?
You might want to pass that info along to Izzy and Scheff since that is a program PURE refers to according to the WWASPS v. PURE court documents.
Title: Re: Defensive
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 08:55:07 PM
Quote from: ""v""
Yes, I am defensive, and I already know Sorensons was a bad decision. At this point would it have mattered what I asked about RRCS? If you guys had something to tell me, don't you think you should have told me?
Yes and No as far as finding what I was looking for...more information on TB, nothing on RRCS.
Don't you think you should have asked? Its your kid. This is a forum. Not a doctors office or referral center. Why would you assume anyone "should" tell you anthing? Why are you placing expectations on fornits as if it is an entity of unified people. It is not. If you are in fact a parent which is highly unlikely (Sue)... your story doesnt add up and your defense of IZ and the use of Sunrise Transport is transparent. I can't imagine a parent who has a kid in a program would come here to try to defend someone she doesnt know very well and yet turn a cheek to the fact her son is in another Behavior Modification Facility possibly being abused, starved and brainwashed as we speak. This is why your story is BS. Parents who are truely looking for answers would ask. I would be asking what you have for meals and what takes place during the day and how things work procedurally... I havent heard one question about the facility. I would be all over this place begging for answers.. especially if I had made such HORRIBLE mistakes before. Please explain.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 08:56:47 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Sorenson's was a bad choice, eh?
You might want to pass that info along to Izzy and Scheff since that is a program PURE refers to according to the WWASPS v. PURE court documents.
They must have reduced her referral fee.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on June 26, 2007, 09:02:21 PM
Psy,
This is the REAL Sandy that you posted the link to my myspace on page 26...... NOT sure why you did that. I have NEVER been on here before and I have no idea who the post right before that came from, it wasn't me.
I am the person that the fake "Patti Atwoods" contacted through myspace originally. He/She/IT is the entity that was fishing for information. No one seeked "He/She/IT" out.
Anyways, regardless of what you think of Isabelle, she did help with my stepdaughter and I am thankful that she was there. She NEVER tried to refer us to anyone/anyplace else. Isabelle helped us for over 5 months and she does really care about kids and she NEVER charged us for anything.
I'm sorry that your past experiences tainted you for life.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:02:24 PM
This poster reminds me of the way Izzy reportedly responded to the WWASPS survivor who ended up with an $800.00 dollar cell phone bill as a result of Izzy's advocacy or whatever she was doing calling him. IIRC from Buzzkill's post, Izzy claimed she couldn't send him any money and besides, the kid could have just hung up or otherwise ended the call(s).
Anybody else notice this?
Could it be this poster is actually Izzy, posing as some parent?
:wink:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:09:47 PM
Quote from: ""Sandy""
Psy,
This is the REAL Sandy that you posted the link to my myspace on page 26...... NOT sure why you did that. I have NEVER been on here before and I have no idea who the post right before that came from, it wasn't me.
I am the person that the fake "Patti Atwoods" contacted through myspace originally. He/She/IT is the entity that was fishing for information. No one seeked "He/She/IT" out.
Anyways, regardless of what you think of Isabelle, she did help with my stepdaughter and I am thankful that she was there. She NEVER tried to refer us to anyone/anyplace else. Isabelle helped us for over 5 months and she does really care about kids and she NEVER charged us for anything.
I'm sorry that your past experiences tainted you for life.
Why doesnt your avatar have green eyes? If Sandy posted this herself.. wouldnt she have made a green eyed person? Secondly, how dare you take stabs at someones experiences. If you are Sandy, shame on you for trying to "send your stepdaughter away to boarding school." Did you husband threaten divorce when he found out where you sent her? What made you want to bring her home... and why the hell did you need IZ? Also, did you pay for your services? What did Isabelle Zehnder do for you?
Title: ?
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:17:05 PM
Quote from: ""Sandy""
I'm sorry that your past experiences tainted you for life.
The hate runs deep. Sorry you all lived through what you did, what could you do to make a difference for the kids in the programs now?
All I see is alot of made up stories, insults and vulgar inuendos.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on June 26, 2007, 09:17:28 PM
Quote
Why doesnt your avatar have green eyes? If Sandy posted this herself.. wouldnt she have made a green eyed person? Secondly, how dare you take stabs at someones experiences. If you are Sandy, shame on you for trying to "send your stepdaughter away to boarding school." Did you husband threaten divorce when he found out where you sent her? What made you want to bring her home... and why the hell did you need IZ? Also, did you pay for your services? What did Isabelle Zehnder do for you?
Who ever said I have green eyes? If you want to post things and want answers then register and quit hiding behind the "guest" ID.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:19:38 PM
There is a HUGE CREDIBILITY PROBLEM with this "parent" poster here, folks.
Psy mentioned Midwest Academy....and this "parent" just happened to stumble across Fornits--and start explaining why Izzy gave PATTI the phone number to Midwest Academy by mistake?????
This "parent" started posting as GUEST1---stating she wanted to clarify things with Catherine, and claimed she gave the name of the transport company to Izzy. Then she began talking about her SON.
June 26 at 1:28 AM this "parent" starting posting as GUEST V
June 26 2007 7:11 PM GUEST V posts: "I'm sorry you don't like Isabelle, but she helped MY DAUGHTER and me through a terrible time."
June 26 7:52 PM GUEST V posts: "You think I enjoyed being away from MY SON?"
This "parent" imposter can't even keep the gender of the kid straight.
GIVE IT UP.
Title: school
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:19:59 PM
Sorensons was a bad decision because it was too transitional for my son and he got himself kicked out, like some kids try and do, and succeed.
RRCS, I think I have already done enough research and I am comfortable with where I sent him. Oh, and if you want to know where his dad is...he's in an urn over the fireplace.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:23:01 PM
I looked at "your" website several times. I know Sandy has green eyes.. why don't you?
Title: results
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:23:21 PM
The Ministry of Education and Youth in Kingston, Jamaica responded to CAICA’S complaint to confirm that they have launched an investigation. There are rumors that the facility may be closing.
Results!! Go to show when concerned people work together, changes happen!
What do you do to assist other parents? What do you do other than wait for your opportunity to bash others?
Title: Re: ?
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:23:40 PM
Quote from: ""Not Buyin' it""
Quote from: ""Sandy""
I'm sorry that your past experiences tainted you for life.
The hate runs deep. Sorry you all lived through what you did, what could you do to make a difference for the kids in the programs now?
All I see is alot of made up stories, insults and vulgar inuendos.
No hate - except maybe toward child-advocate-referrers. But you can understand that. Survivors do tend to have bad feelings toward the people who profited from referring them to some hellhole program.
As for making a difference? Most of the folks here are involved in doing just that. May I suggest you do the same instead of defending someone (IZZY) who apparently many believe is part of the problem, not the solution?
:roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on June 26, 2007, 09:25:55 PM
Quote from: ""Paris""
I looked at "your" website several times. I know Sandy has green eyes.. why don't you?
Well...... "Paris" because I just joined this site today and don't know HOW to customize the avatars that they have available. Tell me how to post my pic and I will gladly do so. Where's your pic?
Title: ..
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:28:12 PM
Quote
June 26 at 1:28 AM this "parent" starting posting as GUEST V
June 26 2007 7:11 PM GUEST V posts: "I'm sorry you don't like Isabelle, but she helped MY DAUGHTER and me through a terrible time."
June 26 7:52 PM GUEST V posts: "You think I enjoyed being away from MY SON?"
This "parent" imposter can't even keep the gender of the kid straight.
GIVE IT UP.
No, you didn't follow the sequence of events. The daughter was with her when she saw the beaten kid @ TB.
Title: Re: ?
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:33:30 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Not Buyin' it""
Quote from: ""Sandy""
I'm sorry that your past experiences tainted you for life.
The hate runs deep. Sorry you all lived through what you did, what could you do to make a difference for the kids in the programs now?
All I see is alot of made up stories, insults and vulgar inuendos.
No hate - except maybe toward child-advocate-referrers. But you can understand that. Survivors do tend to have bad feelings toward the people who profited from referring them to some hellhole program.
As for making a difference? Most of the folks here are involved in doing just that. May I suggest you do the same instead of defending someone (IZZY) who apparently many believe is part of the problem, not the solution?
:roll:
What program did you recently get investigated?
Quote
who apparently many believe is
Apparently they are sadly mistaken~
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:37:19 PM
LOL - CAICA is going to have a very hard time claiming they had anything to do with Tranquilty Bay being investigated, much less closing as a result of some letter she wrote.
The State Department has dozens, probably many hundreds of affadavits from survivors of TB and correspondence with other advocates alleging abuse on record to show that TB has been the subject of an investigation long before IZZY showed up on the scene in February 2007. Just do a search of Fornits archives or contact the State Department, US Embassy in Jamaica, or ISAC.
Sounds to me like this is just IZZY tooting her own horn again, hoping to deflect attention away from the growing wave of criticism directed toward her and her apparent referral of children to unregulated programs and transporters?
Oh well. If nothing else, this is proving to be highly informative for other parents who may be thinking of sending their kid to any program, WWASPS or PURE's, ASPEN, etc.
:lol:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:43:26 PM
Hey Sandy and IZZY, how many kids did Scheffie refer to WWASPS programs both before and AFTER she started PURE?
You should be ashamed of yourselves using Fornits to spread your propaganda.
Get a life!
:flame:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:44:03 PM
Sandy,
You posted the "story of your step-daughter"--and her release from TB. Assume you had this step-daughter's permission to reveal her identity, and her kinship to the Lucille Ball family; and all the personal information you disclosed about this girl. From your posting, it seems that YOUR CONNECTION to this girl: is this girl is a "love child" of your ex-husband's." So--how did you and Izzy become so involved in this girl being released from TB? How did you find the escorts to get this girl out of TB? How did you know SUE and MARIE? Why were these 2 women even discussed with you? Other than Patti, have you referred any other people to Isabelle, Sue or Marie? Are you paid for such referrals?
Title: Re: school
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:46:27 PM
Quote from: ""v""
Sorensons was a bad decision because it was too transitional for my son and he got himself kicked out, like some kids try and do, and succeed.
RRCS, I think I have already done enough research and I am comfortable with where I sent him. Oh, and if you want to know where his dad is...he's in an urn over the fireplace.
Did you do enough research on the other programs? If you have done enough research .. why are you here? What is the point? You came here to defend Isabelle Zehnder? You have access to many many many survivors some of which may have come from the facilities in which your son was subjected to.. so you could be prepared for your son's return home.. (if that is what you have planned) and yet.. you still need to defend people who refer to abusive programs?
I smell BS
Title: Education
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:47:09 PM
Do you have an education of a 5th grader? My son is in the program, my daughter and I witness the abuse at TB. Isabelle helped my daughter and me through the process of what to do because at that point we didn't trust anyone! You are a jerk!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:52:26 PM
Quote from: ""Sandy""
Quote from: ""Paris""
I looked at "your" website several times. I know Sandy has green eyes.. why don't you?
Well...... "Paris" because I just joined this site today and don't know HOW to customize the avatars that they have available. Tell me how to post my pic and I will gladly do so. Where's your pic?
"busted" hello Sue.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:53:02 PM
GAYLE PALMER DEGRAFF. The person responsible for the tortuous death of Michelle Sutton. Reportedly works with Sue Scheff (see WWASPS v. PURE transcripts).
MARIE PEART: Former Admissions Rep. for Cross Creek Manor (WWASPS). So-Called Parent Advocate, Consultant and Associate of Sue Scheff (PURE)
See News Reports about Criminal Background of Marie Peart posted on Fornits.
MARK AND CHERYL SUDWEEKS Former Owners of now defunct Whitmore Academy. History includes running afoul of laws in three countries: Canada, Mexico and the U.S. Currenly embroiled in a civil lawsuit brought by parents and children of Whitmore Academy.
Izzy is acquainted with all 4 of these people, is she not?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:53:10 PM
Sandy,
You may be missing two simple points: Isabelle Zehnder clearly states on her website, CAICA that she does not refer to any programs. Isabelle referred Patti to Sue Scheff/PURE, who places children in programs.
Isabelle Zehnder DENOUNCES WWASP and she has written articles that DENOUNCE teen transport companies, one article---"Escort or Abduction--Your Decide." Isabelle referred Patti to Sunrise Adolescent Transport, which is owned by Julie Thompson, a former WWASP employee.
These are simple facts; and these are not the actions of a child advocate.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on June 26, 2007, 09:53:12 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Sandy,
You posted the "story of your step-daughter"--and her release from TB. Assume you had this step-daughter's permission to reveal her identity, and her kinship to the Lucille Ball family; and all the personal information you disclosed about this girl. From your posting, it seems that YOUR CONNECTION to this girl: is this girl is a "love child" of your ex-husband's." So--how did you and Izzy become so involved in this girl being released from TB? How did you find the escorts to get this girl out of TB? How did you know SUE and MARIE? Why were these 2 women even discussed with you? Other than Patti, have you referred any other people to Isabelle, Sue or Marie? Are you paid for such referrals?
Dear "Guest", If you truly expect answers, then quit hiding and put your name out there. It's so easy in this internet world to say what you want and not be accountable, isn't it? Step up to the plate and be a real person. I am not hiding behind a guest ID.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on June 26, 2007, 09:55:49 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Sandy""
Quote from: ""Paris""
I looked at "your" website several times. I know Sandy has green eyes.. why don't you?
Well...... "Paris" because I just joined this site today and don't know HOW to customize the avatars that they have available. Tell me how to post my pic and I will gladly do so. Where's your pic?
"busted" hello Sue.
I'm not Sue....... Post your name and pic then explain how to post my actual pic and I will..... Thanks in advance for your help! Sandy
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 09:58:05 PM
Sandy, You do not control HOW PEOPLE POST ON FORNITS. If you don't like the format---then STFU, and go post elsewhere.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on June 26, 2007, 09:59:52 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Sandy, You do not control HOW PEOPLE POST ON FORNITS. If you don't like the format---then STFU, and go post elsewhere.
Back at you......... I am not required to answers questions to unknown people either.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 10:02:19 PM
Quote from: ""Sandy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Sandy,
You posted the "story of your step-daughter"--and her release from TB. Assume you had this step-daughter's permission to reveal her identity, and her kinship to the Lucille Ball family; and all the personal information you disclosed about this girl. From your posting, it seems that YOUR CONNECTION to this girl: is this girl is a "love child" of your ex-husband's." So--how did you and Izzy become so involved in this girl being released from TB? How did you find the escorts to get this girl out of TB? How did you know SUE and MARIE? Why were these 2 women even discussed with you? Other than Patti, have you referred any other people to Isabelle, Sue or Marie? Are you paid for such referrals?
Dear "Guest", If you truly expect answers, then quit hiding and put your name out there. It's so easy in this internet world to say what you want and not be accountable, isn't it? Step up to the plate and be a real person. I am not hiding behind a guest ID.
I don't believe you are Sandy. Tell me ... how many grandchildren do you have... and what gender? Post an email... we can converse... by the way.. you are talking to several people.. under guest.. for a reason. They are called survivors and have already been victimized. This is a place for them to speak out... not a place for people to market programs.
Title: Defending who
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 10:02:28 PM
When I first spoke to Isabelle, she warned me against transferring my son to any program. So what you're saying is an absolute flat out lie, fabrication, call it what you want. She helped us, and that's the bottom line. She also was key in the investigation at TB because of what happened to us.
Public Record: Request a copy of the documents that were filed by her, on our behalf and the two others boys, whose names cannot be mentioned because they are minors. Do your homework, I dare you! I double dare you!! Or are you affraid to find out it really is the truth?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 10:02:40 PM
Psy---Cheryl Sudweeks was CHARGED with 7 counts of child abuse/hazing. But the County Attorney, Jared Eldridge allowed this woman to cop-a-plea to 4 counts of attempted hazing. A mere TAP on the wrist. Guess what they call UTAH JUSTICE?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 10:07:14 PM
Dare....double dare? Then you mix in the word TRUTH in the same sentence with the name Isabelle Zehnder. That's just a little, tiny bit hard to compute, OK?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 26, 2007, 10:17:55 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Psy---Cheryl Sudweeks was CHARGED with 7 counts of child abuse/hazing. But the County Attorney, Jared Eldridge allowed this woman to cop-a-plea to 4 counts of attempted hazing. A mere TAP on the wrist. Guess what they call UTAH JUSTICE?
Thanks, corrections made.
Title: Re: Defending who
Post by: psy on June 26, 2007, 10:19:24 PM
Quote from: ""V""
So what you're saying is an absolute flat out lie, fabrication, call it what you want.
What have I said, specifically that is a "flat out lie, fabrication, call it what you want"? If anything is unclear, I would be MORE than glad to provide ample proof.
Title: Re: Defending who
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 10:20:45 PM
Quote from: ""V""
When I first spoke to Isabelle, she warned me against transferring my son to any program. So what you're saying is an absolute flat out lie, fabrication, call it what you want. She helped us, and that's the bottom line. She also was key in the investigation at TB because of what happened to us.
Public Record: Request a copy of the documents that were filed by her, on our behalf and the two others boys, whose names cannot be mentioned because they are minors. Do your homework, I dare you! I double dare you!! Or are you affraid to find out it really is the truth?
Actually, I couldn't care less because it's well known that ISAC has tons of documentation on TB which has been given to the State Dept. and authorities in Jamaica, including affadavits from survivors who allege they were abused at TB, also on file with the State Department. Your case is one of many, so please, get over yourself. You are insulting the integrity of many many people, including survivors who have dedicated their lives to saving other children and parents from abuse. :flame:
As for Izzy: Reportedly, this so-called advocated screwed up the ISAC investigation into Majestic Ranch and has also, managed to compromise her integrity by referring to unregulated children's programs and a specific transport company run by a former Teen Help representative who apparently transports children to WWASPS programs (Cross Creek Manor).
:roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on June 26, 2007, 10:32:36 PM
Wow, a lotta posts on this thread tonight.. anyone care to sum up a little? Thnx in advance.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 10:58:13 PM
its been great fun. Sue &/or Isabelle are pretending to be parent who pulled their child from TB... with the help of IZ. ... and not very well done. Psy pointed out many inconsistencies in the "story". Then after accusing the "poster" of being "Sandy" a friend of Isabelles... suddenly Sandy appears... like magic. Really its been quite a show. Sue is getting nailed to the wall.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 10:58:48 PM
Guest V posts she sent her son to - Obsidian Midwest Sorensons Tranquility Bay Red Rock---where he is currently.
Questions: When is the last time you talked to this boy? When was the last time you saw him face-to-face? How old is this boy? Why has he been placed in facility, afer facility?...and I hope you don't post any of this "dead-or-in-jail" nonsense.
Have you ever paid Isabelle Zehnder fees for ANY OF HER SERVICES?
Were you referred to any of these programs by Sue Scheff or any of her workers/volunteers at PURE?
Why isn't your son at home, receiving real therapy and a real education?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 11:02:47 PM
Hmmm, is there some reason why these two CAICA friends don't seem to be able to grasp simple facts? Answer simple questions?
Frod - to summarize ... seems CAICA is on the hot seat and apparently pushing the spinometer to the max.
I'm thinking of ordering out, so I don't miss the halftime show.
:rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 11:04:54 PM
FRODERIK, I wouldn't mind re-capping for you, if you would be so kind as to delete your crude comment: "An advocate is anyone who thinks that sleeping with program moms is a good idea."
There's already one thread discussing this topic, and that seem to be enough. I'm a program mom; and I find this highly offensive, and not humorous. Thank you.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 11:08:42 PM
um, .. your on fornits... and THAT was offensive? Seriously? Liberated Honkey? I saw the "n" word flying around the other day... and this lame (sorry frod)... silly comment was offensive.
Relax.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 11:21:55 PM
Izzy, since you are surely lurking--a few questions for you, OK?
Why the change on the front page of CAICA? Why the postings of the GAO stuff from the 1990s?
Why the deletion of "CAICA EXPANDS?" Some problem with your new-found relationship with Rose Moore, and that un-heard-of new advocacy organization "that's so difficult to join?"
Why did you refer Patti to Sunrise Adolescent Transport, which is owned by Julie Thompson, who formerly worked as an admissions rep at WWASP's TEEN HELP? Julie Thompson gives glowing recommendations to Cross Creek Manor, a WWASP facility near Sunrise.
Have you changed your views on teen transports since your wrote your article, "Escorts or Abuction? You decide"
Why did you refer Patti to Sue Scheff ? PURE for program placement?
Izzy do you feel any program place is JUST FINE, as long as it is not a WWASP program? Or, is a WWASP placement JUST FINE now, too....just as long as your friend Sue approves the program?
Izzy, are you going to change the wording on your DISCLAIMER that states you do not refer to programs?
Izzy, why do you write those Whitmore Blogs, praising the defunct Whitmore Academy; and the Sudweeks who have broken laws in three countries--Canada, Mexico and the United States?
Care to answer, Izzy?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 11:26:57 PM
Damn, 5 programs including 2 WWASPS?
What kind of bullshit is this?
Why is this parent here? To promote herself as some kind of hero for pulling her kid from TB?
Get the fuck over yourself and bring that child of yours home, parent.
And Izzy? Get a grip on that super-sized ego of yours. Your 15 minutes of fame has turned into marathon blogging and patting yourself on the back so many times, it's a wonder you don't just take out a billboard ad proclaiming yourself as TEEN HELP advocate of the universe.
To Sandy: You seem like a well-intentioned person, but suggesting parents contact CAICA or PURE instead of recommending they contact a licensed family therapist or child psychologist is not real smart and possibly even reckless, IMO, given that apparently, neither Zehnder or Scheff are licensed therapists or trained behavioral healthcare specialists.
Read Maia Szalavitz's book. Tou may just learn something and understand the error of your ways, and in doing so, be of true help to children and parents.
http://http://www.helpatanycost.com
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 11:45:31 PM
GUEST V Instead of spending your time on this forum defending Isabelle Zehnder for the unforgivable---referring a parent to Sue Scheff /Pure for placement in a program ---and referring to Sunrise Adolescent Transport:
Why is this unforgivable? Because Isabelle Zehnder CLAIMS she does not refer parenets and their children for program placement; and she claims to denounce teen escorts.
SO, instead of spending your time defending Isabelle Zehnder: Spend this valuable time researching Red Rock Canyon. You have already had you son placed in a wilderness program where a child DIED. You have already placed you son in two abusive WWASP facilities. Sorenson's Ranch has a history of abuse---this abuse is documented in the WWASP vs PURE transcripts and elsewhere on the internet.
I will not do your research for you--because you will not believe me anyway. But: after careful research; if you honestly have your son's best interest at heart---you will be removing this boy from Red Rock Canyon.
Open your mind and your heart; and do what is right for your son. After these past placements---you just might be the "luckiest mom on earth" to even have a son who is still breathing. Some mothers are not so lucky--and they only placed their child ONCE; not 5 times.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 11:51:41 PM
We just got off the phone so you know the person to contact is James. His direct number is 435-229-9378. The main number at Sunrise Adolescent Transport is 435-673-3202.
The person to contact re the programs is Sue at 954-349-7260. She is aware of the situation so just let her know I sent you to her. I normally don't give out her direct, home phone number but she said OK. She has over 7 years experience helping families so I feel confident she'll steer us in the right direction, if we need to go that direction.
Here's a link to my website regarding coaching in case you want to go that route: www.positivefamilysolutions.com (http://www.positivefamilysolutions.com). Please let the family know I am available to talk with Jason soon after they pick him up from TB. Often it is beneficial for me to talk to the child to let them know what is happening and why. The kids trust me once they know who I am and what I do.
If you would like to help CAICA by making a donation, please go to www.caica.org (http://www.caica.org) and click on the Visa/MasterCard Donate button. We'd really appreciate it!
Talk to you soon, Isabelle
--
Together we can - and do - make a difference!
Isabelle Zehnder Founder and President Coalition Against Institutionalized Child Abuse (CAICA) www.caica.org (http://www.caica.org)
"Parents and Teens Unite" C.E.O., Founder, Coach Positive Family Solutions, LLC www.positivefamilysolutions.com (http://www.positivefamilysolutions.com)
Now I am more confused than ever, Isabelle. (sarcasm intended)
What happened to the so-called report you were writing for Congressman Miller? At least this was your claim when you first called me last year.
What is your title exactly?? How many hats are you wearing these days? Child Advocate, Parent Consultant, Family Coach, Referral Agent, Founder of an "invisible" Association?
It seems like contradiction is in your blood. I spotted this same contradiction the first time I visited the not so P.U.R.E. website. I asked Sue three legitimate questions that I felt deserved an answer. It's called FULL DISCLOSURE. Instead, all I got was "people don't understand me."
ONE of my questions to Sue Scheff (PURE) was:
"Are you a Child Advocate, or a Referral Agency? I don't feel a "TRUE" Child Advocate can be both.
Isabelle, I feel that you and Sue are giving parents a "false" sense of security while you both continue to proclaim the abuses in this dysfunctional industry to the world, (WWASP, WWASP, WWASP, only), while on the other hand, you are both referring desperate parents to an unregulated, out-of-control, "troubled industry."
You can't have it both ways!
It's bad enough that we've had to fight this "troubled industry" over their long talked about controversy. Now we are up against the controversy amongst the "TRUE" Child Advocates and the "FALSE" Child Advocates.
How sad for the kids!
Michelle Sutton Memorial Fund, Inc. Catherine Sutton
------------------------
Guest1 Shows Up and Posts:
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: Catherine's post
I think you are confused Catherine. While Isabelle is an advocate, she also knows that there is a need for safe places for out of control children, and has done her best to gather information for those who do pull their children from these abusive programs, but still need a safe place to put them. This from my own experience. I think you are angry at the wrong person, just my take.
Guest:
As far as referring transport companies, she got that information from me because a so called parent asked her for a referral to one and she didn't have one, so she called me, and I referred her to Sunrise, whom I have had to use 3 times now for my son. She has no affiliation what-so-ever. Seems to me your energy could be used in a more positive way.
------------------------------
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 12:10:46 AM
This parent who has the gall to accuse Cathy Sutton of being "mistaken" is apparently as rude as she/he is ignorant.
V, Guest1 do us all a favor but most importantly, your child, and remove him immediately from his latest program. Do not hire Sunrise for the 4th time to transport him. Go get him yourself! Next, throw away all your program parenting manuals and give your child the kind of real love, attention and guidance he needs and deserves before it's too late.
Lastly, educate others about the message contained in Mrs. Sutton's post. This woman is NOT known for speaking anything but the truth. Stop defending Izzy from the criticism she has rightly earned as a result of her own actions. That is dishonest of you and frankly, as reckless as Sandy referring parents to CAICA and PURE instead of licensed therapists and/or child psychologists.
Thanks for listening. I hope your son comes home soon and you will find him a real therapist who can help him by treating the entire family, not singling him out for all blame like these programs do. It is time for YOU to assume responsbility beyond writing a check each month and monthly telephone calls.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 12:14:49 AM
Who might want to change the subject of discussion yesterday? Who is known for their elaborate trolls? interesting...
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 12:23:48 AM
"confused", not "mistaken"
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 12:29:43 AM
How does this parent afford all these programs?
Have they referred other kids to WWASPS for free tuition?
If so, they should be ashamed because the anti-wwasps movement has been in full swing for at least 7-8 years which is about the time PURE went into business.
IMO, something stinks to high heaven here. I am seeing the same ole' denial from ex-WWASPS parents that led to first, defending Sue Scheff (PURE) and now, Isabelle Zehnder (CAICA).
The lessons are NOT being learned and it looks like once again, it's because of self-serving agendas that puts money, hatred of WWASPS and personal egos/vanity (Scheff/Reeves and the TB Documentary) above all else.
FYI - This tirade is not directed at Psy or others who are clearly not biased nor involved in the Turley lawsuit.
Comments anyone?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 12:37:26 AM
Question:''
What options does a desperate parent who has been court ordered have? A parent who has jumped through every hoop, therapy, family, individual, counseling, and the kid still steals cars, does and sells dope, comes home with tattoos at the age of 15 done at someone's home, ditching school, failing grades and expulsions, breaking into homes including a police officers house, having sex, tearing the house apart, teaching the younger children the ropes, parents calling for reimbursement for the car your kid just wrecked, police at your house so the whole department knows you by name, and you've given the child a good home, a safe home, a decent home, you have tried everything? Where is there a safe place to send your child?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 12:40:58 AM
Believe it or not, some people are capable of making quite a good living without having to take blood money.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 12:44:03 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Question:''
What options does a desperate parent who has been court ordered have? A parent who has jumped through every hoop, therapy, family, individual, counseling, and the kid still steals cars, does and sells dope, comes home with tattoos at the age of 15 done at someone's home, ditching school, failing grades and expulsions, breaking into homes including a police officers house, having sex, tearing the house apart, teaching the younger children the ropes, parents calling for reimbursement for the car your kid just wrecked, police at your house so the whole department knows you by name, and you've given the child a good home, a safe home, a decent home, you have tried everything? Where is there a safe place to send your child?
Asking people you never met or cannot trust on the internet is part of the problem. If I gave you an answer and some pretty pictures, you would be all too willing to send me your teen. That is sad that parents do that, because kids get hurt because of it. Your over dramatization notwithstanding, your teen is not that bad. Some parents learn to deal with it at home.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 12:44:23 AM
Cathy Sutton is not confused and/or angry at the wrong person.
She makes it quite clear how she feels about CAICA and PURE and WHY!
This bullshit CAICA apologist is way out of her league.
My advice is to pick up your marbles and find some another board where you can make an ass out of yourself and expect applause.
Bottom line: No decent parent would subject their child to 5 times the abuse a single program doles out on a routine basis.
This is either total bullshit or there is a parent out there who ought to be on the receiving end of a lawsuit brought against them by their own child.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 12:55:18 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Question:''
What options does a desperate parent who has been court ordered have? A parent who has jumped through every hoop, therapy, family, individual, counseling, and the kid still steals cars, does and sells dope, comes home with tattoos at the age of 15 done at someone's home, ditching school, failing grades and expulsions, breaking into homes including a police officers house, having sex, tearing the house apart, teaching the younger children the ropes, parents calling for reimbursement for the car your kid just wrecked, police at your house so the whole department knows you by name, and you've given the child a good home, a safe home, a decent home, you have tried everything? Where is there a safe place to send your child?
You don't throw your kid to the wolves and wash your hands of YOUR OWN culpability, that's for damn sure.
You do what other parents do who don't have the luxury of hiring thugs to kidnap their kid and haul them off to some lock down facility.
You admit you are PART OF THE PROBLEM and you seek help for the entire family.
It takes time and effort but mostly commitment NOT to give up on your kid.
The industry thrives on parents who have lost control of their children long before their teenage years.
You help your child by admitting your own mistakes and working together to rebuild a relationship based on trust, love and respect.
It's not as hopeless as you believe or are led to believe.
Community based services, no matter how imperfect, are still the most effective resource.
But don't expect child-referral-advocate to tell you that since there is no referral fee to be made.
:roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 01:00:37 AM
one has nothing to do with the other.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 01:02:54 AM
Thanks for the feedback, really.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 01:21:47 AM
Sue Scheff has stated that she has "helped" thousands with her referral company PURE--and this so-called HELP means she places children in programs for a fee; and she is paid by the programs she refers to.
But this parent, GUEST V; and SANDY need to ask themselves these questions: Once Sue Scheff removed her own daughter from the WWASP facility she claims was abusive to her daughter---WHY DIDN'T SCHEFF PLACE HER OWN DAUGHTER IN ONE OF THESE "SAFER, KINDER, MORE GENTLE PROGRAMS THAT SCHEFF RECOMMENDS TO HER CLIENTS?"
How did Sue Scheff manage to control, and raise this daughter withoutthe benefit of a NON-WWASP program for this daughter--a daughter who was so bad that she required being placed in a WWASP facility by Scheff?
Why can't Sue Scheff share her own KNOWLEDGE of how to raise a child PROGRAM-FREE just like she managed to raise her own daughter after Scheff removed her from the WWASP program?
oops...there's probably no BIG money to be made from that sort of Sue Scheff advice, is there?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 01:23:01 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
one has nothing to do with the other.
Whoa, that's some serious feedback. Can I buy a vowel?
:rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 01:25:58 AM
I think people would pay the money in the form of a book. If you're concerned that she is making money referring, don't give her any more ideas.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 01:27:47 AM
The feedback was re: post timed at 12:55am by Guest, not "one has nothing to do with the other". How old are you?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 01:29:53 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
How old are you?
I am nine and three quarters, almost to the big one-oh.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 01:31:45 AM
Think Scheff is already writing a book. But from another posting today, think she will have to add a chapter to explain the abuse incident agaisnt her daughter that seemed to involve hitting this girl in the face and grabbing her around the neck. The "Hero Mom" may need to explain this incident.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 01:40:17 AM
Interesting...
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 03:23:43 AM
NOT sure why my name keeps popping up........
this "psy" person has STILL not responded to why he posted the link to my myspace page orginally... guess he was fishing there....
I and my family did have a great experience with Isabelle. And NO, she did NOT charge us anything even she worked over FIVE months with everyone. That does not mean that she's right for everyone, NO ONE is.... when you are in that situation, you do what you need to do for your child.
I HOPE everyone that has problems with a kid will get the help to help them and their family. I wish them the very best and will pray for them.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on June 27, 2007, 03:27:35 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
NOT sure why my name keeps popping up........
this "psy" person has STILL not responded to why he posted the link to my myspace page orginally... guess he was fishing there....
I and my family did have a great experience with Isabelle. And NO, she did NOT charge us anything even she worked over FIVE months with everyone. That does not mean that she's right for everyone, NO ONE is.... when you are in that situation, you do what you need to do for your child.
I HOPE everyone that has problems with a kid will get the help to help them and their family. I wish them the very best and will pray for them.
Sorry, didn't realize I was a "guest"........ that was my post... I do not believe in being unaccountable for things I post...... Sandy
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 11:24:43 AM
Your name did not "pop" up. You referred Patti to Isabelle. You were asked why you didn't refer a parent to a licensed child therapist? How did you know the names SUE and MARIE? What is your real involvment in this girl's life, who was rescued from Tranquility Bay; You posted that this girl is your stepdaughter--and is the "love child" of your Ex-husband. You were asked if you had read Izzy website: which states she does not refer to programs; and which states she denounces teen escorts. Yet---Izzy referred Patti to both.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 11:28:22 AM
I knew all of this would prompt another blog from Sue.
Well here is a question for Sue, how many times have you come to fornits to see what peopel here have to say?
You act like it is a crime for us to read your blogs. Isnt' that why you posted them?
Quote
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Weston, FL USA Phone: 954-349-7260
Contact MeCreate Your ID About: As a victim of Internet Defamation - I know first hand that keeping your Internet Profile up to date is important. If you have questions for me - please email me personally. I was completely vindicated when a jury awarded me $11.3M for the damages that were done to me and my family on the Internet. Protect yourself - and believe in who you are. All Activity Recent Web Activity: Blogs Sue Scheff - People's Obsessions next close
Jun/27/2007 - original post
Hi Everyone -
I know that since I won the $11.3M Jury Verdict in my Internet Defamation and Invasion of Privacy lawsuit - I have become a topic of many peoples conversation. I am flattered and also proud that I was able to set a precedence in the legal community and hopefully help people and fellow Bloggers understand - I believe in Freedom of Speech - but it doesn't condone defamation!
I keep track of who is watching and when people are using Anonymizer - Check out these hits I have had to my Naymz account - my Google Analytics are even more telling! (That I will keep to myself).
Someone in Slidell, LA either is obsessed with me or simply following my every move - it is almost scary -but thankfully it is all tracked (for the past few months they have visited my Naymz site at least twice a day!) Even when they or others use Anonymizer tracking is always on.
Here is a sample of just the past week:
6/27/07 7:21:07 68.112.221.17 Slidell, Louisiana, US 6/26/07 7:54:34 PM 68.112.221.17 Slidell, Louisiana, US 6/25/07 12:36:53 PM68.112.221.17 Slidell, Louisiana, US 6/25/07 8:15:43 AM68.112.221.17 Slidell, Louisiana, US 6/24/07 3:34:05 PM 68.112.221.17 Slidell, Louisiana, US 6/23/07 2:55:08 PM 68.112.221.17 Slidell, Louisiana, US 6/23/07 9:48:17 AM 68.112.221.17 Slidell, Louisiana, US 6/22/07 7:09:32 AM 68.112.221.17 Slidell, Louisiana, US 6/21/07 7:06:43 AM 68.112.221.17 Slidell, Louisiana, US 6/20/07 1:25:41 PM 68.112.221.17 Slidell, Louisiana, US 6/19/07 12:36:26 PM 68.114.120.17 Slidell, Louisiana, US 6/18/07 8:12:24 PM 68.114.120.17 Slidell, Louisiana, US 6/18/07 12:34:15 PM 68.114.120.17 Slidell, Louisiana, US
Above only covers about a week, but the visits are like this for the past few months and I have records of it all. I think people need to realize that Cyberspace is monitored - even if you think are using an Anonymizer.
See below when someone used an Anonymizer - all the IP's come through Finland - or other countries. The latest technology is very sophisticated - and nothing is sacred anymore as far as IP addresses and locations. This is only a small fraction of the reports I have.
6/17/07 12:00:24 PM 81.175.234.140 Lahti, Etela-suomen Laani, FI 6/17/07 10:35:46 AM 82.181.178.183 Helsinki, Etela-suomen Laani, FI 6/17/07 4:54:07 AM 88.114.101.247 Sipoo, Etela-suomen Laani, FI 6/15/07 11:38:59 AM 88.195.57.134 FI 6/15/07 3:15:46 AM 193.210.145.13 Helsinki, Etela-suomen Laani, FI 6/14/07 3:56:07 PM 213.130.247.40 Kotka, Etela-suomen Laani, FI 6/14/07 3:53:17 PM 62.78.162.120 Helsinki, Etela-suomen Laani, FI 6/14/07 3:52:12 PM 81.197.159.39 Espoo, Etela-suomen Laani, FI 6/14/07 3:50:51 PM 62.78.229.28 6/14/07 3:50:39 PM 81.175.152.106 Lahti, Etela-suomen Laani, FI 6/14/07 3:46:15 PM 213.243.145.151 Helsinki, Etela-suomen Laani, FI 6/14/07 3:45:51 PM 80.247.247.49 orssa, Etela-suomen Laani, FI 6/14/07 3:50:51 PM62.78.229.28 Helsinki, Etela-suomen Laani, FI 6/14/07 3:50:39 PM 81.175.152.106 Lahti, Etela-suomen Laani, FI 6/14/07 3:46:15 PM 213.243.145.151 Helsinki, Etela-suomen Laani, FI 6/14/07 3:45:51 PM80.247.247.49 Forssa, Etela-suomen Laani, FI 6/14/07 3:43:43 PM 88.193.31.47 Helsinki, Etela-suomen Laani, FI
I have reports from areas like the ones above from a constant IP address from Greenville, SC - ironically that is the same area my daughter was harmed at a program named Carolina Springs Academy.
Another constant report is from San Antonio, TX - which is most likely a mother, who wanted her swinging (multiple sexual partners) secret to remain just that, a secret. Unfortunately she blames me for her secret being exposed - and has been on the attack of me ever since.
Of course, New Orleans shows up in a daily report since Carey Bock Levine - the woman I defeated in a jury trial likes to keep tabs on me. Michigan (Auburn Hills, Kalamazoo, Ann Arbor and more)and Virginia are hot reports too.
I won't name names - but I am flattered they are all still taking in an interest in my life and my successes in life. It seems there are people that simply can't be happy for others - jealousy can be a factor or living in constant turmoil seems to be where they like to stay. It is a shame some people can't live their lives in harmony.
I imagine if you have a healthy obsession it can be good - but I think some people need to tend to their own lives and stop living through others.
My good friend recently has been a victim of harassment from people obsessed with her - so I am grateful these types of reports are available for authorities.
People - think twice before you want to use your First Amendment Right for Defamation or threats. Again - The First Amendment does not condone Defamation!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 11:39:43 AM
Sandy- its quite obvious why he posted your myspace page. On the front page you discredit TB and you said that Zehnder was a "hero". Zehnder does not do this for the purpose of helping kids. She does this for her own personal satisfaction. You are lucky you got Desiree out ok without her screwing it up. Hope she is doing well in Oregon..? is she still at Catherine Freer? Do you understand what IZ has done and why it is a huge conflict of interest. She is refering parents to PURE that refers parents to abusive programs. It may not be under the wwasp umbrella (now-- as she did refer to wwasp in the past-- even after taking her daughter out and claiming they abused her!).. but its the same type of "program" .. wrapped in a different package. They are abusive in nature and you can not change that fact. She also refered people to a transport company that is not regulated or licensed. Obviously, things can go terribly wrong with your child. There are other means of getting your child out without calling THAT type of escort company. Have you read the article she wrote about escort/transport companies? You need to made aware that IZ is NOT helping kids. She attempting to pull kids out of other programs so she can make a referral fee of slapping them into a new program. Please note in the letter to Patti.... "tell Sue... I sent you." Even if she claims she doesnt get a fee for these things .. which is highly unlikely.. it is still inappropriate. If you are an advocate against abusive programs... you can NOT support any of these programs that use any type of adverision, coercive &/or behavior modification technique. It is abusive. You can defend her all day... "sandy" .. but, the truth is in the pudding. You can not walk around claiming to be an advocate ... while helping to place children in abusive programs.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 11:46:44 AM
Thank GOD someone or a group of somebodies is KEEPING an eye on SUE SCHEFF. If only people were so DISCERNING before she started sending MANY MANY KIDS to abusive programs that suffered in them, maybe those kids wouldn't of been hurt?
So thanks "anonymizer" or whatever that is, you seem to be one of the few people out there who care more about kids than profit and their ego.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 27, 2007, 11:49:20 AM
Quote from: "Sandy"
Quote from: ""Guest""
NOT sure why my name keeps popping up........
this "psy" person has STILL not responded to why he posted the link to my myspace page orginally... guess he was fishing there....
You might have taken the time to read the previous post. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=267721#267721 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=267721#267721)
Odd that you remembered the "fishing" bit, though.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on June 27, 2007, 11:50:09 AM
Sue's blog reveals extreme paranoia. Ooh, everyone's scared because you can see their IP addresses. I want to get on that list, too.
Sue, I know you're shambling around here. Any truth to your daughter's story that you "reportedly" hit her in the face and grabbed her by the neck?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 11:54:39 AM
My favorite part is where she warns us what NOT to use our first amendment rights for, typical program control freak right there. She is a competitor of WWASPS, not an advocate. Big difference.
I wonder how Isabelle and Sue will react when a group of WWASPS survivors forms a specific political action committe AGAINST THEM. Get ready Iz and Sue, it's coming.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 27, 2007, 12:00:39 PM
Quote from: ""Sue Scheff""
living in constant turmoil seems to be where they like to stay.
Yes. Sitting on the balcony sipping cranberry juice, browsing Fornits on my 17" powerbook (I admit... it is a bit of an antique... but I am so destitute at the moment... an upgrade will have to wait a few months), with the Champagne chilling in the fridge for just the right moment... Yes. Such squalor.
Quote
My good friend
I wonder who that would be :roll:
Quote
recently has been a victim of harassment from people obsessed with her - so I am grateful these types of reports are available for authorities.
Oh.. Me.. Oh MY.. ... ::nails::
Quote
People - think twice before you want to use your First Amendment Right for Defamation or threats.
Ironic that that sentence is a threat, and had she mentioned names, that blog would have been defamation...
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 27, 2007, 12:04:49 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Sue's blog reveals extreme paranoia. Ooh, everyone's scared because you can see their IP addresses.
Just refresh your browser a few times on her site (F5 key).
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 12:47:40 PM
Poor Scheffie and Izzie.
This latest blog seems to suggest neither of these two can separate fact from fiction.
And, apparently, they have a lot of time on their hands.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 12:50:56 PM
Advising someone to think twice is not a threat, it's a heads up.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 27, 2007, 01:04:23 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Advising someone to think twice is not a threat, it's a heads up.
Clarification: In the context of that textual abortion she calls a blog, that sentence is a (barely veiled) threat.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 01:08:23 PM
Does Sue Scheff write these Blogs for the PUBLIC to read? Doesn't she invite the PUBLIC to click on her various websites; and invite the PUBLIC to read ALL ABOUT HER.....her comany PURE...her upcoming books....her past lawsuits....her family?
Now she's complaining because the PUBLIC honor her many, many, many request? How silly.
She's a "Public Figure" Should she be basking in all this PUBLIC attention?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 27, 2007, 01:08:43 PM
Quote from: ""Sandy""
I do not believe in being unaccountable for things I post...... Sandy
A Pity your friend, Sue, doesn't share that same ethic
Quote from: ""Sue Scheff""
I made a lot of postings with various pseudonyms, yes
(Pure vs WWASP transcript, Page 102, Line 23)
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 01:10:08 PM
HA! :D
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 27, 2007, 01:11:28 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
She's a "Public Figure" Should she be basking in all this PUBLIC attention?
Very astute, my anonymous friend. Oh.. I don't think anybody can deny that she is very much a public figure.. limited purpose public figure, even.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 01:19:58 PM
Does anyone know about the srekkert listserve that is suppose to exist for the purpose of exposing the truth about izzy and SS?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 27, 2007, 01:40:27 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Does anyone know about the srekkert listserve that is suppose to exist for the purpose of exposing the truth about izzy and SS?
You have an odd way of spelling trekkers, Guest. Intentional? Hypothesis: (first will be last and last will be first? meek inheriting the earth?) If I knew of such a group, I would love for them to contact me. We can compare notes, collaborate on research...
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 01:45:44 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Does anyone know about the srekkert listserve that is suppose to exist for the purpose of exposing the truth about izzy and SS?
Srekkert?
Not sure what that means?
Can you clarify?
And how does one join? Hope members are thoroughly screened. Seems Scheffie and Izzy wouldn't be too thrilled about truth being exposed if it's about them and not exactly flattering? :rofl:
Personally, it seems rather obvious Scheffie and Izzy don't have a lot of friends, except maybe Sandy and Marie?
Where are ALL these thousands of supporters?
To date, the CAICA fundraiser has raised a WHOPPING $100.00 from TWO donations.
Remember, this started out with a goal of raising $10,000.
Whoops! At this rate - it's going to be YEARS before Izzy reaches that goal and she's already in early 50's, if I recall correctly.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 01:47:46 PM
Sorry, here's the verification link to the Caica Fundraiser.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 02:17:09 PM
6,669 visits to this thread.
Wonder how many hits Izzy and Sue get on their websites or profiles, not counting themselves?
:rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 02:41:54 PM
Well, it sounds like Sue Scheff think/believes that anyone clicking on her websites/blogs is some type of criminal act or something from this latest blog of hers, doesn't it?
And it appears that Scheff is paying some organization to actually collect IP ADDRESSES and to count how many times anyone reads her websites and blogs? What is that about?
Then she wants to discuss her "exposure" of someone's private life with her hearsay, gossip? Does this person run company that refers children to programs for a fee as does Scheff? Does this person run a facility for children? If not--then, who cares if this person reads the internet?
Maybe Scheff needs to spend some time explaining the documents posted about her abuse of her own daughter---and explain why she wanted this information suppressed? Did Scheff hit her daughter in the face, and grab her about the neck? Was this abuse documented by a police report, or Child Protective Services?
Does Scheff currently refer children to WWASP programs?
These are the questions that require answers.
Title: HONKER GIRL - SAN ANTONIO SWINGER
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 04:25:10 PM
What the fuck does she have to do with any of this? The sex lives of program parents don't have a damn thing to do with this subject. You talk about defamation only to turn around and defame one of your VICTIMS?!?!?
Besides... If it really was Joyce, do you really think she would take out a profile under the pseudonym, "HONKERGIRL"?!?!
You may be counting on financial resources... But one day some ambulance-chaser is going to come along and help these parents Sue your vile ass all the way back to hell.
Title: Re: HONKER GIRL - SAN ANTONIO SWINGER
Post by: ZenAgent on June 27, 2007, 04:46:03 PM
:rofl: Don't think so! Are you hags so paranoid and desperate that you engage in character assasination? Defamation? Carey Bock got sued for much less, and remember, you're not going after a limited public figure.
By Sue's twisted logic, Upton Sinclair should have been sued into the poor house for writing The Jungle and causing the meat packing industry to become regulated. I guess Harriet Beecher Stowe should have been gagged and hit with an $11.5 million dollar judgement for the damage she did to slavery's reputation as a business in Uncle Tom's Cabin.
Yeah, these were terrible people, huh? They seemed to have a personal grudge against their subjects, a "vendetta". You think there was a "witch hunt" at the Whitmore? There was...the witch was found, she copped a plea bargain, and can't operate another program in Utah...ever.
P.A.? Who are you, Paula Abdul? Get outta here, you drunk skank...
Title: Re: HONKER GIRL - SAN ANTONIO SWINGER
Post by: psy on June 27, 2007, 04:51:37 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
There was...the witch was found, she copped a plea bargain, and can't operate another program in Utah...ever.
Sadly, she just can't open a program in that particular county. Anywhere else in Utah is fair game. Apparantly, the prosecutor just wanted to avoid a local embarrassment.
Title: Re: HONKER GIRL - SAN ANTONIO SWINGER
Post by: ZenAgent on June 27, 2007, 04:55:02 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
There was...the witch was found, she copped a plea bargain, and can't operate another program in Utah...ever.
Sadly, she just can't open a program in that particular county. Anywhere else in Utah is fair game. Apparantly, the prosecutor just wanted to avoid a local embarrassment.
I know she was banned in Juab County, but the prosecutor said in Utah altogether, as I recall. I imagine it would be hard as hell for her to set-up shop again. Let me go back and find the quote. Maybe he hoped it would never be in Utah again.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 05:11:04 PM
Yeah baby....
Quote
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 3:10 pm Post subject: Best Jewgold Scheme Ever
1. Work in marketing as a headhunter for a large conglomerate of concentration camps. Try and scam the system to make extra money. Repeat step one until discovered and dumped. 2. Establish competition to A large conglomerate of concentration camps by offering safer, purer, concentration camps. Publicly blast the large conglomerate as negative advertising (ableit true)... Make sure to neglect mentioning details about the concentration camps associated with you... and don't forget the sob story!!! 3. When somebody makes note that "hey.... these concentration camps look just like the other ones"... SUE... sue them with great enthusiasm... especially the ones who can't afford lawyers. 4. If the competition decides to take the opportunity to fund the legal defense of the hapless slapp victim, make a partnership with the large conglomerate, agreeing to secretly recommend newly created concentration camps not "officially" associated with the parent company... 5. When the legal defense of the hapless slapp victim suddenly abandons him/her, declare victory!!! Wave the flag! Praise Jesus, President Bush and make an obligatory mention of justice for the underdog. 6. When all else fails, Propoganda!!! If necessary, partner with an "anti-concentraion camp" activist whose morals are slightly askew. Flood "information" everywhere for good measure. 7. When all the Jews you have screwed over come back with a vengeance... scream NAZI.. very very loud, and start yapping about the poor poor Jews. 8. um.... 9. Screwed?
Intersting fact: In order for something to be defamation, the defamed party has to be mentioned by name.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 05:18:51 PM
1. Work in marketing as a headhunter for a large conglomerate of concentration camps. Try and scam the system to make extra money. Repeat step one until discovered and dumped. 2. Establish competition to A large conglomerate of concentration camps by offering safer, purer, concentration camps. Publicly blast the large conglomerate as negative advertising (ableit true)... Make sure to neglect mentioning details about the concentration camps associated with you... and don't forget the sob story!!! 3. When somebody makes note that "hey.... these concentration camps look just like the other ones"... SUE... sue them with great enthusiasm... especially the ones who can't afford lawyers. 4. If the competition decides to take the opportunity to fund the legal defense of the hapless slapp victim, make a partnership with the large conglomerate, agreeing to secretly recommend newly created concentration camps not "officially" associated with the parent company... 5. When the legal defense of the hapless slapp victim suddenly abandons him/her, declare victory!!! Wave the flag! Praise Jesus, President Bush and make an obligatory mention of justice for the underdog. 6. When all else fails, Propoganda!!! If necessary, partner with an "anti-concentraion camp" activist whose morals are slightly askew. Flood "information" everywhere for good measure. 7. When all the Jews you have screwed over come back with a vengeance... scream NAZI.. very very loud, and start yapping about the poor poor Jews. 8. um.... 9. Screwed?
Intersting fact: In order for something to be defamation, the defamed party has to be mentioned by name.
I must add... Any relation to real events, entities or charachters (especially those discussed in this thread) is purely coincidental.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 27, 2007, 05:27:18 PM
What does this have to do with anything? I guess as much as anything else you have to say here.
Listen to the voice ....
P.A.
This thread isn't about Joyce. Is it true that she helped some kids escape out of state to hide out on some hippie commune? I don't know, i don't care, it's off fucking topic. See the title of this thread. it says IZZY. Now who, I wonder has such a legendary hatred of Joyce to keep posting this shit in a thread that just happens to be about... oh wait: *** DEE DEE DEE ***
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 05:33:18 PM
I live in Korea where I am a professional edutainer. Prior to my arrival to Korea I worked as a youth counselor for 4 very long years. As an amusing side note I remember the promise myself I made the very moment my plane landed in Korea. I promised I would never work as a youth counselor ever again.
No more late nights filled with chaotic screams. No more screwed up group meetings filled with stories that make me sick in the stomach.
Seriously though.. loved the kids.. they were great.. the rest of the staff.. meh.. A few gems in the rough, but the rest where a waste of space.
Now I spend my time writing, reading, watching movies, and very slowly and carefully rehabilitating my blown out knees.
Just recently I participated in my first ever Yongsan Hash House Harriers walk/run. Given the condition of my knees I took my time and walked. Not up to running up any hills. Have to say the after party was mildly amusing. Listening to them sing their songs reminded me alot of playing rugby back in Uni.
Life is good. I could whine and complain alot about how I was thrown some curves. In reality that would be a bunch of total lies. No matter what I can't escape the obvious. I am alive. I am reasonably healthy. I have ten fingers and ten toes. I have my hobbies. One of these days I will start brewing my own beer. What more can a feller ask for? MySpace Editor MySpace Layouts MySpace Editor Icons Collage MySpace Graphics Photo Collage Banner
___________________
His first post on Fornits: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... ht=#115011 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=115011&highlight=#115011) (can now find it at http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... 007cc4948e (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=250622&sid=50be553430c26db98be125007cc4948e))
TS Waygookin Disorganized Crime Boss
Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 3191 Location: 5 miles due south of hell.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:36 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
I was reading over this forum, and I was immediately impressed with the intensity of the posters in general. With a great deal of thought I have decided to post my own experience as a staff member at a Three Springs Facility. I was a counselor, Master Counselor C3, for nearly two years at this particular program. To be honest the more time I have spent away from the program, the more guilt I have felt for what I have seen, and further what I had done.
Let me start with the beginning. I had just completed 2 years at another wilderness facility. It was a good place, physical restraints were kept to a minimum. Verbal de-escalation techniques were strongly encouraged. The camp leadership had spent years encouraging the growth of a strong culture emphasizing alternatives to physical management. We routinely utilized the group process method of huddles to discuss issues, and sometimes did so for many hours of a day. Nonetheless, the camp's mission of character improvement for adjudicated youth worked well, and had results for kids who would have otherwise been thrown in a detention center. [Yet he now claims all programs are bad? All should be shut down?]
After my two years in the swamps, I moved on to Three Springs. From the very moment I made my counselor visit I should have known better than to accept employment at that facility. Everyone of my instincts screamed, "BAD PROGRAM!" In my 24 hour counselor visit I witnessed numerous events, and had a great many concerns. In a program that models itself on the group therapy model that uses a group to facilitate treatment of individual issues, they had huge groups. The groups looked shabby, and dispirited. The campsites appeared to be an apalling mess. The counselors had a far to casual relationship with their residents. Let me delve into the details of each item individually, starting with the size of the groups.
The group therapy model as I experienced it works best when the size of the group is between 6 and 10 residents. Two of the groups on the Three Springs campus had groups of 15 youths. What happens in my experience is that the size of the group makes for lessened experience. For example, the bigger the group, the less attention can be paided to an individual youth's issues. The smaller the group, means a lack of social dynamics to stimulate the youth's group therapy. The explanation I was given by the Supervisor on duty entailed lack of staff. Apparently the facility had just went through a large reduction of staff, and was so bad they had office personell covering some of the groups. This alone should have been a big sign to myself that something was truly wrong with this particular site. Well if you can't guess I didn't catch on, but in fact witnessed a great deal more.
The groups were sloppy, and dispirited. They were poorly dressed in dirty, and torn clothing. They looked depressed, and honestly like a pack of beaten dogs. At first I was certain they had were just tired from working all day. As I spent time with the group I was assigned to for the day a few of them informed me this was the way they looked all the time. I was immediately concerned. How can you expect a group of boys to feel good about themselves if they are dressed like a pack of bums? You simply can not! Kids in programs do not need designer clothing, but they do need clean, well maintained clothes. They need to change their clothes daily. I was told by a counselor that they allowed the kids to decide when to change their clothes.
With a bit of investigation I found it was not uncommon that a few of the residents had gone more than a few days without changing their clothing. In fact, some of them simply did not have the clothing to change into, despite numerous letters written to their family workers to get more clothing from home.
The one thing I know is that if you want to improve the self esteem of anyone its probably a bad idea to let them go a few days wearing dirty nasty clothing. If you want a kid to trust you as a staff member you should probably not just turn a blind eye to his lack of clothing. In the last program I worked with we were frequently told to make darn good and sure that clothing items were not an issue. We had an entire section of the camp warehouse full of pants, shirts, and coats for kids who did not have enough clothing. Three Springs unlike the last program is a for profit enterprise. If a kid did not have clothes, he had to get them from home, and sometimes that took months.
Not only did these kids look like a pack of vagrants they certainly appeared to feel like them as well. They looked shabby, they were extremely negative about the program, and voiced constant statements about the depth of their own feelings of worthlessness. This really worried me. A good counselor would have found activities to help these kids feel better. A good counselor would have found building projects to not only build something useful, but to build a sense of ownership, and pride in a group of kids who hated everything around themselves. Ok I do realize that kids, and adults are not going to be fans of programs, but I do know from personal experience the kids will begin to feel ownership over their own situation [Hmmmmm …. Wonder what he means by from “personal” experience?]. If that sense of ownership is inherently negative, what good is the program doing them? NOT a damn thing.
Their campsites were for the most part an appalling pig pens. I nearly refused to sleep in the cabin due to the stench. Apparently cleaning of campsites was to time consuming, and something they only did when they needed. Oh god help me I was so disgusted. Its bad enough that they looked like bums, now the counselors did not seem to care that they lived in trash pits? What positive statement was being sent to these children? Nothing that I could tell. The only thing they appeared to be learning was, "Look like a bum feel like a bum, then go to your campsite, and live like a bum." The real sad part was most of the kids seemed like pretty descent sorts. Most of them had substance abuse, and self esteem problems. For the most part they were a fun loving bunch of guys. The kind of kids who really could have benifited from a work hard, play hard mentality. They were lazy, but what the heck thats something you can unlearn. I frankly had a hard time understand why half of them were even in a program.
Not only did I have a hard time understanding why they were in a program, I somehow convinced myself I could make a difference with my experience. Stupid. I should have said no and ran away screaming. None the less I reported to work, and underwent my 100 or so hours of orientation training. None of which was of any use to me. I had already received 4 times that amount of training at my previous program. A program that prided itself in simplicity of the group process, rather than what I would learn would be the hell of individual consquences. I spent most of my orientation trying to remain in the full awake posture. Somehow I graduated orientation, and was promptly asked to work with the young kids.
Off I toddled to the young kid's group. I really liked those kids they were a bunch of hell raisers of the first order. Never a dull moment for that matter. However, lets discuss not only the failings of the program, but MY FAILINGS as a counselor. These were a group of young children ages 10 to 14. The previous counselor's had not done a good job managing their treatment in a very useful manner. I went into their trunk room, and found rat crap in their foot lockers, and under them as well. They had several bed wetters who frequently wet their beds, and nothing was really done about it.
The behaviors of the group was of course of the chain. In retrospect I should not find anything about what I went through very amusing, but its hard not to laugh. I had to quell riots on a regular basis. I was attacked by 10 year olds. This was pretty interesting considering I am 6 foot tall, weighing nearly 280 pounds, and an avid weight lifter. The kids frequently went beserk over the smallest issue.
None of this was a surprise to me, as I already knew that any new counselor faces resistance from the group. Nothing new, but what did shock me was the total sense of indifference from the administration. Worse was my on attitude. I came from a facility that worked hard to keep physical restraints from being a daily part of our lives. We all accepted that at some point it very well may happen. However, we all did our part to make sure they didn't happen needlessly.
At Three Springs I was involved in almost 200 full on physical restraints. No one seemed to be alarmed with this number, and seemed to accept it as part of business with my group. In the end I instituted several programs to reduce restraints, but received little support from the administration. Lets delve into my responsibilities as a counselor a bit more.
I let myself be seduced into a sick culture. I let my experience of one good program fall to the wayside, and became a part of the sick Three Springs Machine.
I regularly used intimidation to force compliance.
I regularly used physical holds when they were not needed.
I rarely used proper proceedures when conducting these physical holds.
In short I became an active participant of the Three Springs identity. I really should have quit the company at that point, and moved on in life. However, I though I could make a difference.
In the end my group of hell raisers settled down. We began to function, and have alot of fun. Almost everyone of the residents had some form of ADHD, and thrived when I put them all to work. I normally tried to make sure that they had useful work projects. Some people liked to give their groups these pointless make work things that as far as I could tell did no one any good. While, my group began to thrive with me, they still acted like maniacs with my cocounselors. No surprise, they simply did not have the established sense of respect, or fear of my cocounselors. I came back on many occasions to find my group in the midst of a major crisis involving pudding. My favorite crisis being a kid urinated on himself and laid in the middle of the trail for over two hours in his own pee.
Things like this became so common, no one seemed to be surprised anymore. Myself went from being idealistic, to a part of a jaded corporate cancer.
All this came to end. I was of all things fired. My adaption to the program was so complete that I did not notice the periodic change of it around myself. I was fired for giving out an inappropriate consequence. in short I had a kid do something silly to keep himself busy, and out of trouble till suppertime. As a result he aquired a minor abrasion, and I was terminated. I have to say under normal conditions I would have fired myself. However, from what I gathered afterwards, the periodic change, was just that periodic, and things went back to business as usual. Despite all of this my termination was the best thing that happened in my time there.
In my two years at Three Springs I went from a person who cared, to a person who cared in all the wrong ways.
I went from a healthy weightlifter, to a person who was simply an overweight stressed out person who probably hated myself. I nearly suffered a heart attack from the stress. I was on a prescription of Xanax. I pondered suicide on a regular basis.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 05:37:33 PM
This is some scary shit - is it true?
Quote
This was pretty interesting considering I am 6 foot tall, weighing nearly 280 pounds, and an avid weight lifter.
At Three Springs I was involved in almost 200 full on physical restraints.
I regularly used intimidation to force compliance.
I regularly used physical holds when they were not needed.
I rarely used proper proceedures when conducting these physical holds.
My favorite crisis being a kid urinated on himself and laid in the middle of the trail for over two hours in his own pee.
Aaron?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 27, 2007, 05:40:53 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This is some scary shit - is it true?
Quote
This was pretty interesting considering I am 6 foot tall, weighing nearly 280 pounds, and an avid weight lifter.
At Three Springs I was involved in almost 200 full on physical restraints.
I regularly used intimidation to force compliance.
I regularly used physical holds when they were not needed.
I rarely used proper proceedures when conducting these physical holds.
My favorite crisis being a kid urinated on himself and laid in the middle of the trail for over two hours in his own pee.
Aaron?
Why not ask Aaron. In another thread. This one is about _unrepentant_ members of the industry.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 05:57:23 PM
THE PROOF IS IN HER OWN WORDS.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 06:05:23 PM
Excuse me, but referring parents to PURE is a referral, is it not?
And didn't IZZY also solicit a donation (by credit card) from this parent?
What's that all about?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 27, 2007, 06:15:22 PM
"While Isabelle would like to be able to help all families that turn to her, it is not always possible. Sometimes she is faced with a situation that calls for outside intervention, as mentioned above. During those times she turns to Sue for help.
And when Sue receives a call from a desperate parent and feels the issues could possibly be resolved at home she will suggest parents call Isabelle to see if coaching may help keep their families together.
Sue and Isabelle do not profit from each other, nor do they have any financial relationships. This is about parents helping parents and coming together for the common goal of helping families."
Do you see how the third paragraph is contradicted by the previous two? She claims there is no financial relationship. I suppose she could quibble about the definition of financial, but bi-directional referral shows a definate business relationship where there is mutual financial gain involved. Essentially, parents are traded off as "products", holding, as customers, potential financial value. Isabelle may pretend to be an advocate, but she also publicly acknowledges herself as "CEO" of her coaching service, "Positive Family Solutions."
Sue refers to Izzy's "coaching" business which is not free, during which (i hypothesize) she systematically will say "i'm sorry.. I really think it's too serious to be dealt with... I think your son/daughter needs treatment.. Here... let me recommend PURE... Sue can help you avoid getting caught in WWASP's trap" Sue, then refers to programs that pay her for finder's fees (see WWASP vs PURE transcript for lots of goodies regarding sue's referrals).
that isn't even to mention the disclaimer on the blog, stating "Sue Scheff and Isabelle Zehnder believe in team work. They not only work with each other but they work with a group of other professionals who all share the same goals - to keep families together whenever possible and to help find safe alternatives when it is not possible."
Who are those other Professionals?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 06:55:31 PM
I may be wrong, but why does it appear that there have been additional posts added in between other posts that weren't there last night? Could that be why your site was down for maintenance in the wee hours of this morning?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 06:57:52 PM
I Want My Cookies! http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21881 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21881)
To Psy: Very astute reasoning! I just wonder why Izzy doesn't dump CAICA in favor of promoting her new alter-ego Positive Family Solutions?
Recently, I discoverd this website designed by Zehnder for the Rose Moore Show. Note the many links and promos for CAICA and her coaching business, Positive Family Solutions.
IMO, this appears to be how Zehnder may operate: She worms her way into the professional lives and personal accomplishments of others and attempts to morph into them or hitch her wagon to their rising star (e.g. Over the GW).
Am I totally off base in my opinion? Has anyone else noticed that Izzy seems to be a major "piggybacker"?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 27, 2007, 07:01:07 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I may be wrong, but why does it appear that there have been additional posts added in between other posts that weren't there last night? Could that be why your site was down for maintenance in the wee hours of this morning?
First off, Fornits isn't "My site". As for the reliability of the current hosting? Yes, it leaves something to be desired. However, I have these threads archived locally and don't see any changes.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 27, 2007, 07:05:03 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
IMO, this appears to be how Zehnder may operate: She worms her way into the professional lives and personal accomplishments of others and attempts to morph into them or hitch her wagon to their rising star (e.g. Over the GW).
Am I totally off base in my opinion? Has anyone else noticed that Izzy seems to be a major "piggybacker"?
You are totally on target. Don't forget the Space Cookies. Her "Over the GW" stunt is what made me decide to bump her to the top of my todo list.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 07:06:11 PM
I think you are confused Catherine. While Isabelle is an advocate, she also knows that there is a need for safe places for out of control children, and has done her best to gather information for those who do pull their children from these abusive programs, but still need a safe place to put them. This from my own experience. I think you are angry at the wrong person, just my take.
I am confused! Others are confused as well when visiting certain websites that seem to speak out of both sides of their mouths. Especially when some of the so-called Child Advocates are on the one hand, shinning a negative light on WWASP, while on the other hand, they are referring parents to this unregulated industry, giving parents a false sense of security.
I am sickened by those who claim to care about children, who are in THEIR OPINION "out of control," as they continue to refer weak and desperate parents into this unregulated "industry" for a "FEE."
Dear GUEST
I was thrown into the Child Advocate Arena when my child died of PREVENTABLE causes. I learned the hard way, "what to look for, and what to look out for" in this lucrative, out of control "industry."
What are your qualifications and expertise?
Look up the word negligent. It's plain and simple. If something could have been done to prevent a tragedy, it is NO accident.
There is NO such thing as a SAFE PLACE in this "industry."
Instead, I would have to say to a parent looking to this "industry" to help their child, DO YOU FEEL LUCKY?
I have had many conversations with DHS in Utah. I know what their limitations are when they license these programs. I can tell you, the laws are not set up to protect the children. The providers have more rights.
In my opinion...........the number of accidents, injuries, molestation and deaths speak for themselves.
Tired of repeating myself............. Michelle Sutton Memorial Fund, Inc. Catherine Sutton
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 27, 2007, 07:42:56 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I just wonder why Izzy doesn't dump CAICA in favor of promoting her new alter-ego Positive Family Solutions?
Hypothesis: Izzy started PFS becuase CAICA wasn't making her enough money. Now. Sue has stated under oath that PURE is just, what she calls "parent's helping parents". For example. Sue and Marie Peart would often trade off parents and split the 10% program referral payment (tag-team style).
See PURE vs. WWASP transcript. Page 205, Line 18
She referred to Marie Peart as an "independant contractor". She claims to have had many other parents working for her with a similar arrangement. Now... Problem there is that none of them would last long under any sort of scrutiny (especially after the PURE vs WWASP case) so they needed a third party to provide a clean face to their crooked operation. As I've said, CAICA (Izzy) Is PR, providing a sort of legitimacy to PURE and acting as a shield against accusations. In addition, when a desperate parent comes seeking advice on a program, she is more than willing to refer both directly (Sunrise) and indirectly (PURE) to program. Since Sue splits profits with Marie when a parent "changes hands", if pattern follows, Izzy would be entitled to a cut as well. Parents helping parents, who just happen to be getting money for specific flavors of help. If she has kept up her old contacts, in theory, there should be a lot more parents running around collecting referrals to split with Sue. "Parents helping parents"
Izzy might as well dump CAICA now that her front is getting demolished, but the question then remains: how will Sue maintain an air of legitimacy once CAICA is totaled. I have no doubt Izzy is going to move, full time into "Positive Family Solutions" and she will take down CAICA screaming like a fat bitch about those mean mean people who just want to hurt the poor advocates of this world. She would be a fool if she didn't fold... But she isn't exactly known to be as shrewd as Sue, or some of her other more intelligent sociopathic friends.
Of course all that is just hypothesis, however plausable, at this point... with what I am wiling to go public with
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 07:55:37 PM
Catherine
I completely allign with what you say. Those who said someone's preventable death is a "there are a no accidents statement" angers me.
My qualifications, making the same mistakes, and trying to learn from them. Other than that, warning other parents and friends from making the same mistakes as I have, whenever I can.
What really sucks is, some of my friends are still pro-wwasp, and other's aren't, but they won't admit it within our group. But I get to keep my eyes and ears open, while at the same time getting as much help as I could possibly get, because they all have some sort of assistance/experiences that can benefit me and my children.
It's been a difficult time, a tough road, not as tough as yours, and I am so sorry for your loss. when I think about losing my children, or have nighmares about it, it is the most horrific thing I think I would ever have to go through, and frankly, I don't think I would make it through it.
While I am not an advocate, or so-called, or whatever, I do hope that by my stepping up I have made a difference and maybe saved some more lives. It's cost me some friendships, however, if that's the case, they never where my friends, where they? Or as some people would say, "I am not here to make friends".
My wish and prayers for you are to hopefully find comfort and peace, however that looks to you.
Hugs,
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 08:04:47 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Catherine
I completely allign with what you say. Those who said someone's preventable death is a "there are a no accidents statement" angers me.
My qualifications, making the same mistakes, and trying to learn from them. Other than that, warning other parents and friends from making the same mistakes as I have, whenever I can.
What really sucks is, some of my friends are still pro-wwasp, and other's aren't, but they won't admit it within our group. But I get to keep my eyes and ears open, while at the same time getting as much help as I could possibly get, because they all have some sort of assistance/experiences that can benefit me and my children.
It's been a difficult time, a tough road, not as tough as yours, and I am so sorry for your loss. when I think about losing my children, or have nighmares about it, it is the most horrific thing I think I would ever have to go through, and frankly, I don't think I would make it through it.
While I am not an advocate, or so-called, or whatever, I do hope that by my stepping up I have made a difference and maybe saved some more lives. It's cost me some friendships, however, if that's the case, they never where my friends, where they? Or as some people would say, "I am not here to make friends".
My wish and prayers for you are to hopefully find comfort and peace, however that looks to you.
Hugs,
I certainly hope you don't count Izzy and Scheff among your friends considering they are aligned with Gayle Palmer DeGraff, the evil woman who is responsible for Michelle Sutton's death.
I also hope you are not the parent who put their kid in 5 programs, including 2 of WWASPS.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 27, 2007, 08:12:19 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I certainly hope you don't count Izzy and Scheff among your friends considering they are aligned with Gayle Palmer DeGraff, the evil woman who is responsible for Michelle Sutton's death.
See Pure vs WWASP transcript, page 171, Line 7 ... (yes, my copy is heavily annotated and i plan on publishing it soon.)
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 08:12:25 PM
Quote
Izzy might as well dump CAICA now that her front is getting demolished, but the question then remains: how will Sue maintain an air of legitimacy once CAICA is totaled. I have no doubt Izzy is going to move, full time into "Positive Family Solutions" and she will take down CAICA screaming like a fat bitch about those mean mean people who just want to hurt the poor advocates of this world. She would be a fool if she didn't fold... But she isn't exactly known to be as shrewd as Sue, or some of her other more intelligent sociopathic friends.
Seems to me CAICA was always a one-man-show, even when Izzy claimed to have a board of directors and a co-founder named Kathy.
Personally, I suspect she's archived the website as a means of keeping it around because of all her blogs she links CAICA with. Nobody else really links to CAICA, but PURE and Rose Moore, and a few misguided souls like Space Cookies and the NYRA.
:roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 08:27:35 PM
Hello? What about that CAICA fundraiser and the other ways one can "donate" to support Izzy and her important advocacy work?
8-)
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 08:31:34 PM
It appears that parents has had their share of problems, and to speculate as to why five programs would not be fair, although they do make an effort to explain why. Frankly, I don't see any difference between putting your child in one program or five, the fact that you have to put your child in any program in the first place is terrible enough. From their posts, it appears they were grasping at straws and being misinformed from all ends. I can't tell you how many parents I know who were confused, and had their kids at more than one program for many different reasons, and it doesn't mean that they were all bad reasons. Everyone's situation is different.
What I have learned is that these programs are not a one size fits all, they are not all safe, if any, and you still get the same kids back, sometimes. I was recently told my child may have PDSD, which the therapist hasn't really diagnosed yet. I can't change what has happened, I can only try to move forward.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 08:34:12 PM
Where can we find a copy of the transcripts?
Quote
See Pure vs WWASP transcript, page 171, Line 7 ... (yes, my copy is heavily annotated and i plan on publishing it soon.)
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 08:37:41 PM
One more thing I forgot to add, was that I don't see a time frame from school to school, which they omitted. Additionally, I know it takes a lot before a child is expelled from one of the schools.
With that said, I use ducttape.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 08:39:15 PM
It's also public record. You can get it directly from the clerk of the court.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 08:40:29 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
It appears that parents has had their share of problems, and to speculate as to why five programs would not be fair, although they do make an effort to explain why. Frankly, I don't see any difference between putting your child in one program or five, the fact that you have to put your child in any program in the first place is terrible enough. From their posts, it appears they were grasping at straws and being misinformed from all ends. I can't tell you how many parents I know who were confused, and had their kids at more than one program for many different reasons, and it doesn't mean that they were all bad reasons. Everyone's situation is different.
What I have learned is that these programs are not a one size fits all, they are not all safe, if any, and you still get the same kids back, sometimes. I was recently told my child may have PDSD, which the therapist hasn't really diagnosed yet. I can't change what has happened, I can only try to move forward.
Parent, you are right about one thing. You can not change the damage done to your child (PTSD) by your own negligence as a parent but you can get him/her the help they need and deserve. I'm sorry, but in my mind, there is a difference between having to suffer through 1 program and 5. That poor kid needs to be rescued from his program(s) and his parents.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 27, 2007, 08:41:58 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
It's also public record. You can get it directly from the clerk of the court.
I'm just annotating the thing with additional links and information about certain key characters in the case, and their associations elsewhere.
the page numbers i'm referring to are the actual page numbers in the bottom right of the scanned document, and not the PDF page.
edit: gone to see Die Hard 4. Be back online tomorrow
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 08:48:53 PM
I would still have to say to look at the time frames, could be 5 in 5 months, 5 in 10, would make no difference then would it if it were 1 in 2 years, don't you think? Just thinking out loud. And they do say that they were not aware of the abuse and when confronted with it, immediately moved the child to what they thought was a safer program. I know that will be attacked, I am just trying to see both sides.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 09:11:40 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I would still have to say to look at the time frames, could be 5 in 5 months, 5 in 10, would make no difference then would it if it were 1 in 2 years, don't you think? Just thinking out loud. And they do say that they were not aware of the abuse and when confronted with it, immediately moved the child to what they thought was a safer program. I know that will be attacked, I am just trying to see both sides.
The kid was KICKED OUT of some of these programs (Obsidian and Midwest) and immediately replaced so err ... you may want to stop speculating and pay attention to the facts.
Nice try though. :roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 09:25:06 PM
I am paying attention, maybe you should. Kicked out of Midwest and Sorensons. Why be so nasty about it?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 09:26:42 PM
By the way, Obsidian was closed down about 7 years ago for Racketeering and extorsion, not to mention the deaths that happened under Greg Boddenheimer. Yah, back in control my ass.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 09:29:54 PM
With that in mind, that would mean the kids been in programs for 7 years, cause he's still at RRCS? Pay attention.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 09:36:27 PM
Correction: 5 years closed down.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 09:55:45 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I am paying attention, maybe you should. Kicked out of Midwest and Sorensons. Why be so nasty about it?
Thought you said the kid set a fire at Obsidian? If he wasn't kicked out he should have been for the safety of the other children and himself.
As for being nasty ... what can I say? It's not like you and this bullshit doesn't stink to high heaven.
:roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 09:59:45 PM
You know, this is just banter now. Go back and re-read. Sent to Obsidian for setting a hillside on fire, or something like that. I am not doing your homework for you.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 10:00:59 PM
Since we are discussing the pure and caca, and the people who think they are so great, they who think so much of the Whitmore Ranch. I found this articule. I would not entrust any being with the folks mentioned. This is only my opinion, but possibly you ought to do some research, if they would stick up for the people who would do this, has none of my trust. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2001/02/ ... 10227.html (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2001/02/27/animal_abuse010227.html)
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 10:09:14 PM
Wow, I am an animal rights activist, but comparing livestock to our kids?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 10:13:00 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Wow, I am an animal rights activist, but comparing livestock to our kids?
Animal abuse like child abuse which is what Cheryl Sudweeks (Whitmore Academy) plead no contest to is disgusting.
And btw, izzie, scheffie or abusive guest parent, animals like children, have rights, so STFU.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 10:18:35 PM
Don't think I can do that, sounds like fun and all, thanks for the offer.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 27, 2007, 10:21:03 PM
I gave up trying to decipher this thread about 5 pages ago. Are people actually still trying to defend the Sudweeks?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Nihilanthic on June 27, 2007, 10:29:31 PM
Apparently Sue and Izzy are, and blaming it all on Joyce.
Or something.
This is like Jerry Springer on Acid... :roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 27, 2007, 10:32:31 PM
You can blame alot of things on Joyce I'm sure, but how do you blame her for Mark and Cheryl pleaing no contest to the charges leveled against them by Juab county?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 10:32:39 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Don't think I can do that, sounds like fun and all, thanks for the offer.
Sure ya can - just follow these three easy steps:
Step 1.
STFU
Step 2.
STFU
Step 3.
STFU
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
P.S. If you still can't STFU find the nearest well-lit mirror and take a nice long look at yourself. The shock alone should cause major liplock.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 10:47:29 PM
Someone emailed me that Catherine had aligned herself with your website, and frankly I am a bit amazed, considering you appear to be a foul mouth, disrespectful bunch of renengades, using her for your cause, which I think in the long run will be detrimental to her cause, and it's my belief she will lose any credibility by staying aligned with you guys. Your mouths are a complete turn off, this coming from someone who has already donated, and have second thoughts at doing it again.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 10:49:36 PM
Crash Test Dummy: Read the Whitmore Blogs written by Isabelle Zehnder and Sue Scheff: Both support the closed down Whitmore Academy, and the Sudweeks (owenrs) who have broken laws in 3 countries: Canada: the animal abuse link just posted Mexico: evicted for operaing a school without a license US: Cheryl Sudweeks copped a plea in the criminal case at Whtimmore
And yes, both these women try to blame one parent for all the legal woes of the Sudweeks in their hearsay, libelous blogs.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 10:54:41 PM
Guest, you highly UNDERESTIMATE Cathy Sutton. No one uses this lady. And I must agree with previous posters---you really do need to shut up.
Just thought perhaps you didn't understand that STFU means: SHUT THE FUCK UP ! Now do you get it?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 27, 2007, 10:58:31 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Crash Test Dummy: Read the Whitmore Blogs written by Isabelle Zehnder and Sue Scheff: Both support the closed down Whitmore Academy, and the Sudweeks (owenrs) who have broken laws in 3 countries: Canada: the animal abuse link just posted Mexico: evicted for operaing a school without a license US: Cheryl Sudweeks copped a plea in the criminal case at Whtimmore
And yes, both these women try to blame one parent for all the legal woes of the Sudweeks in their hearsay, libelous blogs.
I believe you told me all about this before on yahoo.
So where are the Sudweeks opening up their next school then? Is Izzy and her sugar mama Sue going to be getting a cut of the pie?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 10:59:18 PM
WRONG PERSON, and why does she need you to speak for her?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on June 27, 2007, 11:01:26 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Someone emailed me that Catherine had aligned herself with your website, and frankly I am a bit amazed, considering you appear to be a foul mouth, disrespectful bunch of renengades
Fuck off, y'bitch...we are not!! :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 27, 2007, 11:02:32 PM
She doesn't.
So answer the question.
Where is the next torture center going to be opened by the Suds, and is Sue and Izzy going to get a cut of the pie?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 11:05:26 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Someone emailed me that Catherine had aligned herself with your website, and frankly I am a bit amazed, considering you appear to be a foul mouth, disrespectful bunch of renengades, using her for your cause, which I think in the long run will be detrimental to her cause, and it's my belief she will lose any credibility by staying aligned with you guys. Your mouths are a complete turn off, this coming from someone who has already donated, and have second thoughts at doing it again.
Amen!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 11:15:50 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Someone emailed me that Catherine had aligned herself with your website, and frankly I am a bit amazed, considering you appear to be a foul mouth, disrespectful bunch of renengades, using her for your cause, which I think in the long run will be detrimental to her cause, and it's my belief she will lose any credibility by staying aligned with you guys. Your mouths are a complete turn off, this coming from someone who has already donated, and have second thoughts at doing it again.
Amen!
Donated to who? CAICA? Why is it our fault if you are having second thoughts about that? Sheesh!
Title: CAICA SETS THE RECORD STRAIGHT
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 11:17:55 PM
CAICA SETS THE RECORD STRAIGHT
WHO IS PATTI ATWOOD?
June 27, 2007 Written by: Editorial Board Coalition Against Institutionalized Child Abuse (CAICA)
There seems to be some question as to who Patti Atwoods is and why it even matters. Patti Atwoods does not exist. She was made up by a deceitful woman - a liar and a fraud - someone claiming to be her in an effort to harm Isabelle Zehnder – a Child and Family Advocate - the Founder and President of the Coalition Against Institutionalized Child Abuse (CAICA). Patti called from San Antonio, Texas - 210-251-2902.
Patti found Isabelle's friend, Sandy, on MySpace and contacted her. Patti lied to Sandy and to Isabelle. This selfish caller took up over three weeks of precious time that could have been used to help other families. She claimed she wanted to remove her nephew from what she believed was an abusive program.
Why?
It now appears the motive was to try to discredit Isabelle who has devoted the past four years to helping families whose children were abused in teen programs and to provide a service to the public by creating what others are calling the most comprehensive website on the topic of institutionalized child abuse.
Isabelle is not radical - she does not believe all programs should be shut down. What Isabelle is trying to accomplish is bringing awareness to the fact that children and teens are being abused in programs and to find a way to not only stop the abuse but to make those who abuse children accountable for their actions. As a result, the people who are radical, who do believe all programs should be shut down, continue to harass and defame both Isabelle and her friend, Sue Scheff. Sue has devoted eight years to helping these families.
Who are these people and what drives them?
We have seen a pattern that victims of abuse in these programs seem to despise anyone and anything that is not in line with their ways of thinking. Perhaps this is a result of the years of abuse they themselves endured. Many were mistreated in teen programs and they are very angry, understandably. Some are people with their own hidden agendas.
The sad thing is that victims are misdirecting their anger. The truth of the matter is there are kids who need help that their parents and local therapists can't provide. The anger should be directed at those who abuse children. And rather than stay angry it would be more useful to the cause if everyone worked to find positive solutions and to try to get this industry regulated so that kids do not have to continue to endure abuse behind closed doors. It is daunting – there is a great deal of work to be done to accomplish this. But Isabelle and those at CAICA believe it is a cause worth defending.
Their mission?
To attempt to discredit Isabelle by trying to prove she was profiting from parents four ways – referral fees from teen transport companies, referral fees from programs, her new company, Positive Family Solutions, and donations for CAICA.
Isabelle does not refer to programs. Only under extreme cases has Isabelle provided parents a number to call for program options and only once, that she is aware of, has a child been placed into a program under these circumstances. Isabelle did not charge a referral fee and received no money for referring this child.
Isabelle does not refer families to transport companies for the sake of transporting children to programs. In fact, except under extreme circumstances, Isabelle is opposed to the use of teen transports to transport children and teens to programs.
In February Isabelle was contacted by a mother who wanted to remove her son from an abusive facility in Jamaica. The mother hired Sunrise Transport to bring him back to the states.
After weeks of working with Patti Isabelle received a call from her inquiring how other parents had removed their children from this facility. When Isabelle told Patti this mother had used a transport company Patti asked if Isabelle could get her the number.
Patti said the family would be flying to Jamaica the following day. Isabelle, confused, asked why they would want to hire the transport company when they were flying to Jamaica to pick up her nephew. Patti explained the family did not trust Jamaican drivers and wanted someone from the US.
Isabelle called the mother and asked for the transport company’s phone number. The mother gave Isabelle three numbers and Isabelle called and left the numbers on Patti’s voice-mail. Patti had also asked Isabelle to call the transport company to find out if they would be able to do this in such short notice, which she did.
When Isabelle dialed the first number someone from Midwest Academy answered the phone. Isabelle indicated she had the wrong number and called the other numbers. When Isabelle realized the error, she immediately called Patti and left a voice-mail message letting her know the first number was incorrect and that she should not call it.
There was no reason for Isabelle to research Sunrise Transport – they were being used as a glorified Taxi service to drive the adults to and from the facility. Not to transport a child.
Isabelle recently left her legal career to start her coaching company, Positive Family Solutions because she, like others, has to make a living. Prior to that, she has coached parents and kids for years free of charge.
Patti offered to donate to CAICA. Isabelle was happy because she was trying to raise funds for a young man who had been a victim of abuse in a program. He needed money to get his feet off the ground and for medical care. Isabelle was also trying to raise money for families who could not afford legal services.
“Patti Atwoods” wasted three weeks of precious time that could have been used to help others. She continues to do everything in her power to discredit Isabelle. We believe she has aligned with former program victims. Isabelle continues to receive threatening e-mails from a young man in Virginia who claims he was abused at Benchmark. He does not know Isabelle, he has never spoken with her, and he has no idea the work she has done to help families.
He is sending Isabelle and Sue threatening e-mails which are being taken seriously and that have been forwarded to the proper authorities.
There is a fine line between free speech and Internet Slander and Defamation. That line has been crossed. _______________________________________________
Below are e-mails between Sandy, Isabelle, and Patti
CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN PATTI, SANDY, AND ISABELLE PHONE NUMBER: 210-251-2902 210 TX -6 S Texas: San Antonio (see also splits 830, 956)
FROM PATTI TO ISABELLE May 9, 2007 6:53 AM
Hello Isabelle,
Thank you for writing.
Sandy has been so great in helping me., and I appreciate her support and time.
My sister enrolled her son, Jason, at Tranquility Bay in January. This is the first special school he has attended. She chose an out-of-country school because of he has run away before. Besides Jason's behavioral problems, there is much conflict at home, especially between Jason and my sister's current husband.
My sister planned to use Jason's college fund to pay for TB. I am the executer of Jason's college fund and other funds. I have not approved payment of TB, because the inadequate educational benefits; and what appears to be a lack of psychological counseling.
Sandy asked many questions - and I hope she shared the information with you. I will try to remember the important ones: Jason's biological father is not in the picture. I don't know how my sister has been paying TB these past months; or what type of contractual agreements she has signed with this organization.
I'm preparing to attend a conference next week, and need to get things nailed down. I'm a CPA, and I am used to working "a plan." Now, I am confused, and worried about my nephew.
I need a "plan" to present to my sister, to convince her to remove Jason from TB immediately. I don't believe Jason can live back at home, due to the ongoing conflicts, and his own issues.
If a summer program can be arranged, to be followed by a boarding school in the fall; I believe I can convince my sister to follow this "plan," especially if I agree to release funds to pay the expenses.
I need assistance in finding the proper summer program and school for Jason.[Emphasis added] The school must have academic standards, as well as provide counseling for Jason.
If this does not work--then I will speak with my attorney. I have no "custodial rights," and really do not know my legal rights to intervene in Jason's release from TB.
My assistant, Noreen has been helping me research these issues. She confided to me that her brother is having serious problems with his teenage daughter, age 15. They live in Flagstaff, AZ. This girl has been skipping school, using "drugs" (I don't know what kind), ignoring curfews and rules, constantly fighting with her mother, and running around with an older boy they don't approve of. Recently the mother found birth control pills in her purse.
There parents have been talking to an Educational Consultant, and have been told about a school in Utah. Noreen doesn't know the name of the school, but now, she wants to be sure it's not one of these wwassp schools.
I won't make any decisions until the end of school. But, Noreen is trying to help them find a good summer program [Emphasis added], and go from there.
Isabelle, I am not familiar with parent-teen-coaching.
But, I think this would be beneficial for Jason and his mom, if he was away from TB.
Now, he is only allowed letter-writing communications.
I hope I answered the questions you needed. Thank you for your concerns.
Patty responded. She sounds legit, but it's hard to say. Please read her e-mail (below) and see if there are any red flags or inconsistencies that jump out at you. I will wait to hear from you before I respond to her.
The only thing she has going for her is that she holds the $$ - if nothing else this child will have money when he comes home (if he ends up staying in TB - which of course I hope he doesn't).
I need to explain more about coaching and how it has helped keep families together. [Emphasis added] It would be nice if she could convince her sister to try that. One problem is the new husband - very common! These new husbands often have no patience for the wife's teen. I've seen this over and over.
And the girl who is going out, etc., she sounds like a teen doing teen things. [Emphasis added] It sounds to me that she and her mom could be helped with coaching rather than sending this child away. I'd have to know more and be sure the child is not suicidal, etc.
Thanks for keeping me in the loop.
Isabelle
_______________________________________________
FROM ISABELLE TO PATTI Date: May 9, 2007 7:47 PM
Thanks for the info, it helps me understand where things are at.
Please either provide me with your phone number and some times I can call you or give me a call at 360-369-6547 or 360-903-3951.
I have been working extended hours in order to meet various deadlines for clients; and to prepare for the NCCPAP Spring Conference I will be attending next week.
Are you available to talk by phone in the evenings? This would be better for me, since I am constantly interrupted during the day with client calls at work.
I may return home on Thursday afternoon (May 17th); rather than attend Friday's sessions at the conference. II will see how things go at the office; and how things are progressing with these family issues.
Noreen's brother is looking at a wilderness type program for his daughter, but he has not signed any papers, yet.
Noreen has convinced him to look at another option she researched, because she thinks this would be much better for her niece. I't called equine-assisted-therapy, and Noreen is very excited about what she has researched so far. Apparently her niece is an accomplished rider, owns a horse and competes in rodeo type events.
Do you know anything about this type of therapy; or do you know of any programs that include "equine therapy" that may be appropriate for a 15 year old girl?
My sister did not hear from Jason this week; but at times his correspondence is sporadic, which concerns me, even if it does not seem to worry her. But then, I have been reading a lot about TB; so my apprehension continues to grow.
Do you know why this Tranquility Bay Documentary film has not been released in the United States? I read the reviews of this film, and I will share this information with my sister.
I look forward to discussing options for Jason when I can talk to you by phone. Noreen found a few schools/programs during her research that sound promising for Jason.
Again, I hope to have some type educational plan intact before I confront my sister, and push her to remove Jason from TB immediately. I'm sure that she will not consider removing Jason from TB, without some plan for his enrollment in a summer and fall program. [Emphasis added]
Hopefully you can provide the names of acceptable schools; and then I can only hope that these schools will have an opening on such short notice.
Perhaps you can recommend something to help Noreen, too. Noreen says she is afraid her brother is acting too quickly, and needs to take the time to research more thoroughly.
I look forward to hearing what options may be available.
And here is the e-mail that I wrote in response to Patti's very specific requests - the name and number of the transport company used by another parent to transport the adults to and from the airport to the facility, NOT TO TRANSPORT A CHILD AND THIS WAS TO BRING A CHILD HOME - Sue's contact information so her sister could have options - my coaching website - and a way to donate to CAICA:
We just got off the phone so you know the person to contact is James. His direct number is 435-229-9378. The main number at Sunrise Adolescent Transport is 435-673-3202.
The person to contact re the programs is Sue at 954-349-7260. She is aware of the situation so just let her know I sent you to her. I normally don't give out her direct, home phone number but she said OK. She has over 7 years experience helping families so I feel confident she'll steer us in the right direction, if we need to go that direction.
Here's a link to my website regarding coaching in case you want to go that route: www.positivefamilysolutions.com (http://www.positivefamilysolutions.com). Please let the family know I am available to talk with Jason soon after they pick him up from TB. Often it is beneficial for me to talk to the child to let them know what is happening and why. The kids trust me once they know who I am and what I do.
If you would like to help CAICA by making a donation, please go to www.caica.org (http://www.caica.org) and click on the Visa/MasterCard Donate button. We'd really appreciate it!
Talk to you soon, Isabelle
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 11:18:12 PM
Nice language Cartman
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 11:22:11 PM
Don't look now, but I think she said/mean't the Michelle Sutton Memorial Fund, but maybe my IQ is failing me too.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 27, 2007, 11:28:59 PM
It's over 9000 strong now.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on June 27, 2007, 11:33:22 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Don't look now, but I think she said/mean't the Michelle Sutton Memorial Fund, but maybe my IQ is failing me too.
Yeah, I'm afraid so; that was the Frank Sutton memorial fund.
(http://http://www.timvp.com/frank_s3.jpg)
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 11:38:57 PM
I don't even know why I am responding you ignoranimous, go back and do your homework, her daughter has a fund set up in her name, Michelle, get it, or do I have to give you the page number where Catherine responded to the parent with the fund underneith her name? Jesus, this is just getting beyond stupid. I honestly mean this, do your homework if you want to maintain your credibility. As my daughter would say "you are flying out your A$$".
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 11:41:51 PM
Excuse me but did Izzy refer Patty to PURE or not?
If so, why would she even do that? Izzy has no professional background or training in behavioral healthcare or child psychology. She is not a CEP (Certified Educational Planner) which requires a college degree at a minimum.
Second, Izzy had no business referring this lady to a transport company with ties to WWASPS or any other organization. CAICA is an educational and informational website only, remember IZZY? It is NOT FOR REFERRALS TO PROGRAMS.
So quit the bitchin and just deal with the reality. Izzy referred a parent to unregulated children's programs (by way of PURE) and made a direct referral to a transport company.
Those are the facts. It matters not what the circumstances were.
Isabelle Zehnder violated the terms of her own disclaimer, IMO.
End of story.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 11:46:44 PM
You guys appear to be on a witchhunt, and I wonder whose been supplying the the matches...do you even know? As long as you guys have someone to hang, you don't care about doing your homework, nor are you capable of using deductive reasonsing, which is apparent, because you have been easily led astray. Not my observation, a fact.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 11:50:24 PM
All of Izzy's pages and pages of "she said, I said, she said" makes no DIFFERENCE:
Isabelle Zehnder referred this Pattie person to Sunrise Adolescent Transports.
Isabelle Zehnder referred this Pattie person to Sue at PURE for program placement.
It doesn't it much simplier than that.
Isabelle Zehnder's DISCLAIMER states that she does not refer to programs. YES SHE DOES.
Isabelle Zehnder writes articles that DENOUCE teen escort services; yet she referred to one.
Those are the simple facts.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 11:51:45 PM
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 11:56:54 PM
Yup, just what I want to waste my time doing, posting to a non-entity. Next you'll have a site to ET's to post your comments. Beam me up Scotty.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 11:59:08 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
You guys appear to be on a witchhunt, and I wonder whose been supplying the the matches...do you even know? As long as you guys have someone to hang, you don't care about doing your homework, nor are you capable of using deductive reasonsing, which is apparent, because you have been easily led astray. Not my observation, a fact.
Naw - this ain't no witch hunt.
More like a perfect example of the ole' adage ...
Where There is SMOKE There is FIRE.
Bottom Line:
Nobody forced Isabelle (CAICA) to refer someone to PURE or a transport company.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:04:11 AM
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. Its a duck! :wstupid:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on June 28, 2007, 12:07:16 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. Its a duck! :wstupid:
If it smells like shit, don't eat it!
Title: Back again
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:10:09 AM
I don't know who it is on here who thinks I need defending, thank you, but I don't owe anyone an apology or explanation, specially people who obviously don't care to know and are only using my families terrible situatuion to further their cause, and make all program parents terrible, evil, wicked people. You want people to believe that, I am a witch, I teach dogs to speak, children to fly, and at the wave of my magic finger I can dissappear. And if you believe that, look into my eyes...I didn't know that all I had to do with my son was hold hands and sign cumbyyah, and everything would magically go away, including war, nuclear missles, disease, etc. Wow, you guys have the answer to everything. If I'd only come to Nitwits first, then none of this would have ever happened.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:12:22 AM
I guess you better brush your teeth.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:14:40 AM
Now where have I seen that emoticon?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:16:26 AM
Hey, who is the EDITORIAL BOARD of CAICA? I swear, I have never heard of such a thing and really want to know.
What the hell is an "editorial board"? All you bloggers out there, please explain.
T.I.A.
Title: Re: Back again
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:18:51 AM
Quote from: ""V""
I don't know who it is on here who thinks I need defending, thank you, but I don't owe anyone an apology or explanation, specially people who obviously don't care to know and are only using my families terrible situatuion to further their cause, and make all program parents terrible, evil, wicked people. You want people to believe that, I am a witch, I teach dogs to speak, children to fly, and at the wave of my magic finger I can dissappear. And if you believe that, look into my eyes...I didn't know that all I had to do with my son was hold hands and sign cumbyyah, and everything would magically go away, including war, nuclear missles, disease, etc. Wow, you guys have the answer to everything. If I'd only come to Nitwits first, then none of this would have ever happened.
You obviously did not read under the link to this forum.
Compliance is not character. Weakness is not strength. Regression is not growth. "Tough love" leads to tough hate. Time for some straight talk about the Troubled Parent Industry. This is an uncensored, unmoderated forum where all viewpoints are both welcome and fair game for debate. It's a snap-shot of the Teen Help industry, and there's nothing inspiring or heart-warming about it. It's pretty damned ugly. Enter at your own risk. Moderator Nobody
It is what it is. ::bangin::
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:20:51 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
You guys appear to be on a witchhunt, and I wonder whose been supplying the the matches...do you even know? As long as you guys have someone to hang, you don't care about doing your homework, nor are you capable of using deductive reasonsing, which is apparent, because you have been easily led astray. Not my observation, a fact.
perhaps a case of the hunter becoming the hunted Wickerman Style.
THINK WHAT YOU ARE DOING MAN!!!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:22:22 AM
Well you could do your homework and see how LLC's are put together, or non-profits, but I guess that would be too easy, take someone elses word for it that you don't know personally, and run with it.
Title: just curious.....
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:22:37 AM
with everything going on in this forum....
is ANYONE on here "certified" or "licensed" or even has any REAL schooling on helping kids?
:o
Title: Re: Back again
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:23:43 AM
Quote from: ""V""
I don't know who it is on here who thinks I need defending, thank you, but I don't owe anyone an apology or explanation, specially people who obviously don't care to know and are only using my families terrible situatuion to further their cause, and make all program parents terrible, evil, wicked people. You want people to believe that, I am a witch, I teach dogs to speak, children to fly, and at the wave of my magic finger I can dissappear. And if you believe that, look into my eyes...I didn't know that all I had to do with my son was hold hands and sign cumbyyah, and everything would magically go away, including war, nuclear missles, disease, etc. Wow, you guys have the answer to everything. If I'd only come to Nitwits first, then none of this would have ever happened.
::crybaby:: ::crybaby:: ::crybaby:: ::boohoo:: ::boohoo:: ::boohoo:: Quit your whining you pathetic excuse for a human being.
5 programs you have dumped your kid in and you still think you deserve a pity party.
God, I wish ST was open so you could park your ass over there instead of polluting Fornits with your toxic garbage.
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on June 28, 2007, 12:24:33 AM
It's heartwarming to know that fornits causes some of these sleazy douchebags to lose business. :P
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:24:38 AM
Isabelle Zehnder clearly states that CAICA is not a referral company.
So why did she refer Patti to Sue Scheff at PURE; and why did she refer her to Sunrise Adolescent Transports? Zehnder claims she does not charge for her services; yet she used CAICA to promote her for-profit company Positive Family Solutions to Patti; and she requested a donation from Patti.
It's a simple email in Zehnder's own words making these referrasl and requests. Not pages of a BLOG.
Title: Re: Back again
Post by: Froderik on June 28, 2007, 12:26:17 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
::crybaby:: ::crybaby:: ::crybaby:: ::boohoo:: ::boohoo:: ::boohoo:: Quit your whining you pathetic excuse for a human being.
5 programs you have dumped your kid in and you still think you deserve a pity party.
God, I wish ST was open so you could park your ass over there instead of polluting Fornits with your toxic garbage.
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
Who is this fuck?
Care to introduce him (her)?
(I'm sort of a newbie to this thread.)
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 28, 2007, 12:27:17 AM
Sandy maybe??
Title: Re: just curious.....
Post by: ZenAgent on June 28, 2007, 12:27:53 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
with everything going on in this forum....
is ANYONE on here "certified" or "licensed" or even has any REAL schooling on helping kids?
:o
Did you bother to check the nature of this forum? Posters are mostly program survivors and program parents who made choices they regret.
Also, there are lawyers, journalists and quite a few mental health care professionals cruising the forum. They don't normally come out and identify themselves, because Fornits is a little raw for some professionals to link their names to.
Do you know which posters they might be? About as well as we know who you are.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:30:10 AM
I don't need anyones pitty party, but if you were really there to help, you'd have some suggestions besides foul language and finger pointing, and clearly you don't, which makes you as credible as a lunch box. Why don't you put your anger into something more viable, like offering advice, not crapping down someones throat. Or are you not capable of solving a tragidy that continues to exist. Seems to me, your efforts would be much better utilized helping, not making matters worse. Or can't you see beyond your nose?
Title: Re: Back again
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:30:35 AM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""Guest""
::crybaby:: ::crybaby:: ::crybaby:: ::boohoo:: ::boohoo:: ::boohoo:: Quit your whining you pathetic excuse for a human being.
5 programs you have dumped your kid in and you still think you deserve a pity party.
God, I wish ST was open so you could park your ass over there instead of polluting Fornits with your toxic garbage.
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
Who is this fuck?
Care to introduce him (her)?
(I'm sort of a newbie to this thread.)
Frod - "V" is some program parent x 5 (meaning he/she put their kid in 5 programs) and came here to defend Isabelle Zehnder.
Nice friends, eh?
:rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:33:43 AM
It's a parent who placed her kid in 5 programs--kid is currently in Red Rock Canyon---had him escorted by Sunrise Adolescent Transports. Sunrise is the company Izzy referred this Patti person to.
This parent gave the name of Sunrise to Izzy.
Posters spent several pages attempting to "educate" this parent about the dangers of programs; begged her to research Red Rock--hoping she might remove her son; since this is the program where one child has already died (Katie Lank)....but this parent is basically here to defend her friend, IZZY. That's about it.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:35:53 AM
Clearly, anyone in the media can see beyond the bullshit and the truth, and know better than to not report on what cannot be absolute. Just like a court of law. Any of you a lawyer? Don't preach the law to me.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on June 28, 2007, 12:39:02 AM
Quote from: ""V""
Clearly, anyone in the media can see beyond the bullshit and the truth, and know better than to not report on what cannot be absolute. Just like a court of law. Any of you a lawyer? Don't preach the law to me.
What's your point??
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:39:47 AM
Guest V, you never responded to questions last time you logged in. How can anyone help you when all you do is rant; and don't respond to basic questions? Either you want help, or you don't.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:39:50 AM
This has been a long, sad reminder of the kind of parents that drive this industry.
Title: Re: HONKER GIRL - SAN ANTONIO SWINGER
Post by: ZenAgent on June 28, 2007, 12:40:04 AM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
There was...the witch was found, she copped a plea bargain, and can't operate another program in Utah...ever.
Sadly, she just can't open a program in that particular county. Anywhere else in Utah is fair game. Apparantly, the prosecutor just wanted to avoid a local embarrassment.
Damn this thread moves fast. I wanted to post this earlier, now it's pages later.
Sudweeks is banned for life from opening another hellhole in Juab County. The Juab County attorney was quoted as saying:
"And it shuts her down, at least here in Juab County, so they can't do business here. I believe it effectively shuts them down in the state of Utah," Eldridge said, adding that he forwarded the plea agreement to state officials over licensing.
I think Eldridge is implying Sudweeks would never be able to get a license for a facility in Utah, due to the plea agreement. I would hope the licensing body would take that into consideration and deny her with great prejudice, but we are talking about Utah...
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:40:56 AM
Quote from: ""V""
I don't need anyones pitty party, but if you were really there to help, you'd have some suggestions besides foul language and finger pointing, and clearly you don't, which makes you as credible as a lunch box. Why don't you put your anger into something more viable, like offering advice, not crapping down someones throat. Or are you not capable of solving a tragidy that continues to exist. Seems to me, your efforts would be much better utilized helping, not making matters worse. Or can't you see beyond your nose?
Listen up pal - you have been given plenty of advice but you insist on playing this dumb ass OH WOE'S ME I'M AT MY WITS END game.
Pay attention!!! Your kid needs immediate rescuing from program #5 and a lawyer to get him/her the hell away from YOU.
Think you can handle that? I mean, it would require having a moral compass which you seemed to have lost a long time ago. Hopefully it's not lost forever.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:45:27 AM
Zen Agent: did you miss IZZY's Blog a few pages back? "Who is Patti Atwoods?"
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:45:29 AM
I thought it was as clear as the nose on your face.
And by the way, I initially told you, I came here looking for information on TB, go back and do your homework, and I was also hoping to get some help, and instead you guys took to attacking me because I saw a post on Isabelle and made a statement that you didn't agree with and it was all out war, which discredits the fact that you state program parents are safe here. That's what you've missed. Would you say that's a pretty accurate explanation of who I am. Oh, and I missed the other facts like being accused of being a shape shifter. Apparently I was several people, but now I am a parent. You guys can't make up your minds, which leads me to believe you are very dangerous people, because you don't do your homework.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:47:27 AM
Quote from: ""V""
which discredits the fact that you state program parents are safe here.
Who told you that? Can your kid expect this much?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:49:30 AM
Why was TSW's first post posted here? How did you even get that I thought they were deleted. :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:50:35 AM
Apparently you keep missing the fact that he's under court order? Or do I have to do this in sign language?
Yes, I get he needs to be removed. I never said I didn't agree, you keep dropping that part of the story and pushing more pins into your voodoo doll.
Cut to person with voodoo doll
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:52:10 AM
Does communication breakdown in your household this way? (
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:52:34 AM
Quote from: ""V""
I thought it was as clear as the nose on your face.
And by the way, I initially told you, I came here looking for information on TB, go back and do your homework, and I was also hoping to get some help, and instead you guys took to attacking me because I saw a post on Isabelle and made a statement that you didn't agree with and it was all out war, which discredits the fact that you state program parents are safe here. That's what you've missed. Would you say that's a pretty accurate explanation of who I am. Oh, and I missed the other facts like being accused of being a shape shifter. Apparently I was several people, but now I am a parent. You guys can't make up your minds, which leads me to believe you are very dangerous people, because you don't do your homework.
Give it up V. You have zero credibilty just like your pal Izzy. It's time to pack it in. Please, try to use what little dignity you have left and go quietly.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:55:27 AM
GuestV, why don't you state who you are (not your name)..a Are you a parent, who has a son who is enrolled at Red Rock Canyon? Is this your son's 5th program? Are you looking for information about TB? Do you need this information since you stated you just joined the Turley law suit against WWASP? Do you want information to help determine if Red Rock Canyon might not be a safe program or not?
If you can answer these questions: then maybe someone can help you find some answers. These answers will ONLY BE OPNIONS and you can "take them or leave them." OK?
But if you are looking for validation that you made a good choice by placing your son in a program---YOU WILL NOT FIND THAT HERE ON FORNITS. As a "program mom" you can take my word for that!!!! But, if you can show respect--you CAN FIND HELP HERE. But no one is going to put up with your smart ass remarks, OK?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:55:40 AM
Isabelle just threw up her cookies. Don't eat the throw up Isabelle, I'll get you some more cookies. Don't you worry.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:57:20 AM
My name is Phatti McHorepants.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:01:53 AM
Quote from: ""V""
Apparently you keep missing the fact that he's under court order? Or do I have to do this in sign language?
Yes, I get he needs to be removed. I never said I didn't agree, you keep dropping that part of the story and pushing more pins into your voodoo doll.
Cut to person with voodoo doll
I think it's obvious you are a horrible parent.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:05:25 AM
You know what? I came here, and I was and always have been respectful, until attacked. If I had come here initially and put Isabelle down, while seeking information, you guys would have welcomed me with open arms.
It doesn't much matter anymore who I am, because I see how you guys keep dragging people through the mud. I see how people have been rude to me, disrespectful, and have used language I wouldn't even kiss my mother with such a dirty mouth.
I see where my only usefullness here is to come up with some terrible stories about Caica and pure, and other people of whom I don't even know.
I am a program parent. I am at witts end. I am at the end of believing anyone, including you guys. I have been sold program over program, my son and I both have been victimized, and I don't trust any of you.
I appreciate those who were kind enough to at least put aside their agendas and really, truly speak to me, for that I am greatful. As for the rest, I don't know what else to say to you, and it wouldn't matter anyway. I hope I can find a real site, with real solutions, and real help other than I received here.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:09:16 AM
Quote from: ""V""
I hope I can find a real site, with real solutions, and real help other than I received here.
It doesn't exist. This is the end of the line, for those who learn the hard way.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:09:31 AM
This is exactly what I am talking about, someone just signed in with my initial and acted as though I signed my name as a nickname. You totally lose your credibility when you do that. I am done with your site, but will definately keep an eye on it to see how many other program parents you plan on terrorizing.
Title: Re: Back again
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:14:14 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""V""
I don't know who it is on here who thinks I need defending, thank you, but I don't owe anyone an apology or explanation, specially people who obviously don't care to know and are only using my families terrible situatuion to further their cause, and make all program parents terrible, evil, wicked people. You want people to believe that, I am a witch, I teach dogs to speak, children to fly, and at the wave of my magic finger I can dissappear. And if you believe that, look into my eyes...I didn't know that all I had to do with my son was hold hands and sign cumbyyah, and everything would magically go away, including war, nuclear missles, disease, etc. Wow, you guys have the answer to everything. If I'd only come to Nitwits first, then none of this would have ever happened.
::crybaby:: ::crybaby:: ::crybaby:: ::boohoo:: ::boohoo:: ::boohoo:: Quit your whining you pathetic excuse for a human being.
5 programs you have dumped your kid in and you still think you deserve a pity party.
God, I wish ST was open so you could park your ass over there instead of polluting Fornits with your toxic garbage.
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
I happen to know it wasn't the mother's choice - so why don't you go bark up some other tree?
:rofl: :flame:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:15:05 AM
This site is too much. Two impersonators in a row. I am done with this site. You people are too smart for me. I eat ice cream with a scoop, I scoop it into my face.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:17:12 AM
Wow, name calling, terrible language, and advocates sleeping with program parents...are you watching and listening Cathy
Title: Patti Atwood requested the Transport service
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:19:17 AM
Quote
After weeks of working with Patti Isabelle received a call from her inquiring how other parents had removed their children from this facility. When Isabelle told Patti this mother had used a transport company Patti asked if Isabelle could get her the number.
Patti said the family would be flying to Jamaica the following day. Isabelle, confused, asked why they would want to hire the transport company when they were flying to Jamaica to pick up her nephew. Patti explained the family did not trust Jamaican drivers and wanted someone from the US.
Isabelle called the mother and asked for the transport company’s phone number. The mother gave Isabelle three numbers and Isabelle called and left the numbers on Patti’s voice-mail. Patti had also asked Isabelle to call the transport company to find out if they would be able to do this in such short notice, which she did.
When Isabelle dialed the first number someone from Midwest Academy answered the phone. Isabelle indicated she had the wrong number and called the other numbers. When Isabelle realized the error, she immediately called Patti and left a voice-mail message letting her know the first number was incorrect and that she should not call it.
There was no reason for Isabelle to research Sunrise Transport – they were being used as a glorified Taxi service to drive the adults to and from the facility. Not to transport a child.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:20:37 AM
You have made me cry with your cruelty. My kids have had to endure watching their single father cry in front of them. They will probably remember this day for the rest of their lives; the day they lost respect for their father. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on June 28, 2007, 01:20:53 AM
Quote from: ""V""
You know what? I came here, and I was and always have been respectful, until attacked. If I had come here initially and put Isabelle down, while seeking information, you guys would have welcomed me with open arms.
I disagree. You came here specifically to agitate on behalf of the Iz.
Quote from: ""V""
It doesn't much matter anymore who I am, because I see how you guys keep dragging people through the mud. I see how people have been rude to me, disrespectful, and have used language I wouldn't even kiss my mother with such a dirty mouth.
Not everyone has been foulmouthed. Froderick certainly hasn't been, and he's offered to kiss your mother.
Quote from: ""V""
I see where my only usefullness here is to come up with some terrible stories about Caica and pure, and other people of whom I don't even know.
Nah. We have enough terrible tales, and Izzy provides enough fodder on her own. You have been useful, you've shown the level of paranoia in your camp.
Quote from: ""V""
I am a program parent. I am at witts end. I am at the end of believing anyone, including you guys. I have been sold program over program, my son and I both have been victimized, and I don't trust any of you.
Come on. We've long since established you're nothing but smoke and mirrors. I remember the joke about the woman who took a wounded snake home and nursed it back to health. When the snake recovered fully, it gave the woman a lethal bite. As she died, she asked why the snake repaid her kindness by killing her. "Look, lady," said the serpent, "You knew I was a fucking snake when you brought me in,"
How many programs do you have to be bitten by?
Quote from: ""V""
I appreciate those who were kind enough to at least put aside their agendas and really, truly speak to me, for that I am greatful. As for the rest, I don't know what else to say to you, and it wouldn't matter anyway. I hope I can find a real site, with real solutions, and real help other than I received here.
If you find that site, be sure to come back and share it with us.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:21:14 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Wow, name calling, terrible language, and advocates sleeping with program parents...are you watching and listening Cathy
Shut Up Izzy! You refer kids to PURE. That is disgusting!
V.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:31:16 AM
You better hope I don't find out who is impersonating me since you can sign in as anything you want. That's fraud, and impersonating me is illegal. Keep it up.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:32:39 AM
Quote from: ""V""
You better hope I don't find out who is impersonating me since you can sign in as anything you want. That's fraud, and impersonating me is illegal. Keep it up.
No wonder your kid is happy in Red Rock. They are away from you!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:34:03 AM
I am never posting here again. Ever.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:37:00 AM
Good thing, no one wants to here your terrible tales of whoh. We are on a mission.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:37:51 AM
Quote from: ""V""
You better hope I don't find out who is impersonating me since you can sign in as anything you want. That's fraud, and impersonating me is illegal. Keep it up.
Misrepresenting knowledge of the law to make hollow threats IS against the law.
I practice law, do you? So YOU keep it up.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:39:19 AM
LOL, you think you are the only V posting on Fornits?
V is for Victory. Vagina. Viagra.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:39:29 AM
Pog Mo Thon!!!!!!!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:41:34 AM
Impersonating a lawyer is also illegal! So is giving legal advice when you're not one. Want to tell me more?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:43:31 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
LOL, you think you are the only V posting on Fornits?
V is for Victory. Vagina. Viagra.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
and Vibrator, don't forget that one.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:45:47 AM
I think you mean't "ignorance of the law", but then again, who am I to quote the law, I am not a lawyer, you are
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:47:30 AM
Or and I?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:48:09 AM
Or am I?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:49:04 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
It's a parent who placed her kid in 5 programs--kid is currently in Red Rock Canyon---had him escorted by Sunrise Adolescent Transports. Sunrise is the company Izzy referred this Patti person to.
This parent gave the name of Sunrise to Izzy.
Posters spent several pages attempting to "educate" this parent about the dangers of programs; begged her to research Red Rock--hoping she might remove her son; since this is the program where one child has already died (Katie Lank)....but this parent is basically here to defend her friend, IZZY. That's about it.
In February Isabelle was contacted by a mother who wanted to remove her son from an abusive facility in Jamaica. The mother hired Sunrise Transport to bring him back to the states.
After weeks of working with Patti Isabelle received a call from her inquiring how other parents had removed their children from this facility. When Isabelle told Patti this mother had used a transport company Patti asked if Isabelle could get her the number.
Patti said the family would be flying to Jamaica the following day. Isabelle, confused, asked why they would want to hire the transport company when they were flying to Jamaica to pick up her nephew. Patti explained the family did not trust Jamaican drivers and wanted someone from the US.
Isabelle called the mother and asked for the transport company’s phone number. The mother gave Isabelle three numbers and Isabelle called and left the numbers on Patti’s voice-mail. Patti had also asked Isabelle to call the transport company to find out if they would be able to do this in such short notice, which she did.
When Isabelle dialed the first number someone from Midwest Academy answered the phone. Isabelle indicated she had the wrong number and called the other numbers. When Isabelle realized the error, she immediately called Patti and left a voice-mail message letting her know the first number was incorrect and that she should not call it.
There was no reason for Isabelle to research Sunrise Transport – they were being used as a glorified Taxi service to drive the adults to and from the facility. Not to transport a child.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:51:19 AM
I am suing all of you.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:52:41 AM
Quote from: ""V""
Clearly, anyone in the media can see beyond the bullshit and the truth, and know better than to not report on what cannot be absolute. Just like a court of law. Any of you a lawyer? Don't preach the law to me.
That's for sure - media might come to Fornits to find contacts but they're not going to take a word of what is said seriously. And lawyers? Now that's a joke.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:53:07 AM
Trying to flush me out. Pretty funny stuff. Still impersonating me? You are so special...Ed
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:53:59 AM
Quote from: ""V""
I am suing all of you.
Hey, can I join you? Please, please, please say I can!!! I'm serious, no joking here.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:55:51 AM
Don't forget people "Reasonable Doubt", which you are not using here.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:56:40 AM
Isabelle Zehnder wrote an article denouncing teen escort services. Yet, she referred Pattie to Sunrise Adolescent Transports?
Sunrise Adolescent Transports is owned by Julie Thompson who previously worked for WWASP's TEEN HELP as an admissions rep.
How does Zehnder explain to the participants in the Turley law suit that she refers to SUNRISE which is owned by a previous WWASP employee, who gave glowing recommendations for the WWASP facility Cross Creek Manor?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:57:02 AM
Don't forget your kid.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:57:17 AM
Do you guys get it, V did not write "I am suing all of you". You guys would believe anything, how pathetic.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:57:23 AM
"I happen to know it wasn't the mother's choice - so why don't you go bark up some other tree? "
Life happens and parents as well a children endure many unexpected circumstances.
This Program Parent lost the other Parent of her children when her Prog son was young. Call it whining or crying, fact is if this parent hadn't Done what it takes long before her darling son got in trouble, he would have been incarcerated in juevy. (Are you aware of what is going on in the Hall of Juevenile justice these days?!)
In this parent's heart the belief was the child was being spared a record and poor treatment. Never was there a thought that it would all lead to this.
Because you were there and you know so much about the program doesn't mean anything to a parent who is searching for answers to save the child that is headed down a path to jail or possibly worse knows the first thing about what is going on, whether its on the internet or not!! And, if she had the same experience I had, noone ever bothers to call back, or they say, I don't know what to tell you! Isabelle actually spent time talking to me. She knew exactly what I was telling her as she had written the report about other stuff that had happened at that school.
Through your cruelty you fault this single parent. There is a story to all five programs. At least she kept trying to find one that would do what they promised. She shelled out the bucks every month so her darling boy wouldn't go to jail. A single parent who has the guts to go the distance.
Everyone is involved in this institutionalized mess. It is time to clean it up! It is a disgrace that parents are lied to!!! It is a disgrace that there is such fighting amongst the people who profess to help. It is time to pull together and get some changes made. There are too many residential treatment schools to get them shut down. There needs to be regulations , inspections and trained/qualified staff.
Bickering and name calling is not going to bring about the changes that are needed to keep other children from experiencing what you survivors have experienced. We can't change yesterday but today we can dosomething to change tomorrow.
I defend Isabell too! She has been there everyday since I learned of the crap going on at WWASP!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:58:23 AM
Bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, yada, yada, yada.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:58:30 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""V""
You better hope I don't find out who is impersonating me since you can sign in as anything you want. That's fraud, and impersonating me is illegal. Keep it up.
No wonder your kid is happy in Red Rock. They are away from you!
V - do not listen to these people. I've read your posts and I can see that you are a good mother who has tried to get the best help you can for your son. Poeple on here are angry and have no self control. If they listened for half a second they'd get that you didn't have a choice. Your son left you no choice.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:01:54 AM
A natural born therapist.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:02:49 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, yada, yada, yada.
How disrespectful! :flame: Maybe if you read the posts that make sense you would learn something. Maybe you're just not capable.
Title: V
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:03:53 AM
V - do not listen to these people. I've read your posts and I can see that you are a good mother who has tried to get the best help you can for your son. Poeple on here are angry and have no self control. If they listened for half a second they'd get that you didn't have a choice. Your son left you no choice.
She has jumped through every hoop and then some. She is to be admired.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:04:05 AM
I don't listen to the pathetic ramblings of the losers that infest this website.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:04:52 AM
Thanks, but do you get it? They are just using me as a pawn. In fact, someone mentioned earlier in these posts that the thread has been changed altogether. Posts have been added where posts didn't exist yesterday. So you can't trust this site no matter what you do, unless you were to copy and paste everything within a 24 hour period until they decide to shut it down for so called "maintenance". And even then, someone can call that a lie too! Darned if you do, and Darned if you don't.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:06:07 AM
::T::
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:09:13 AM
Quote from: ""Not Buyin' it""
This Program Parent lost the other Parent of her children when her Prog son was young. !
Any of you lost your parent? Any of you have to parent a child who lost their dad? Any of you lost your husband? Any of you have to go through that kind of heartache? Do you know how difficult it is for a young boy to lose his father, and a wife to lose her husband? I am shocked that people here are so insensitive to people who have problems that are so deep.
You can feel sorry for a parent who lost her child - what about a parent who lost her husband and a child who lost his father? A single mother trying to make ends meet, survive the death, and cope with two kids could be more that most people could even handle.
Sounds to me like this mom did everything she could for her son to keep him safe - she thought. She bought into WWASPS and she's not the only one. In fact, many of you here bought into it too. So screw off and quit causing this mother more pain. She's been through enough.
She has been helped by the person you idiots keep trying to hurt. If you only knew Isabelle the way many survivors and parents know her you'd back off. Grow up and realize that people are feeding you a bunch of misinformation and bullshit. Maybe you like it an it's what keeps you going. Why not pick on someone like LIchfield - he deserves it - Isabelle doesn't.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:09:59 AM
Ducttape
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:13:09 AM
I think she ran out of cookies.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:13:52 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Isabelle Zehnder wrote an article denouncing teen escort services. Yet, she referred Pattie to Sunrise Adolescent Transports?
Sunrise Adolescent Transports is owned by Julie Thompson who previously worked for WWASP's TEEN HELP as an admissions rep.
How does Zehnder explain to the participants in the Turley law suit that she refers to SUNRISE which is owned by a previous WWASP employee, who gave glowing recommendations for the WWASP facility Cross Creek Manor?
Shall we try again?
In February Isabelle was contacted by a mother who wanted to remove her son from an abusive facility in Jamaica. The mother hired Sunrise Transport to bring him back to the states.
After weeks of working with Patti Isabelle received a call from her inquiring how other parents had removed their children from this facility. When Isabelle told Patti this mother had used a transport company Patti asked if Isabelle could get her the number.
Patti said the family would be flying to Jamaica the following day. Isabelle, confused, asked why they would want to hire the transport company when they were flying to Jamaica to pick up her nephew. Patti explained the family did not trust Jamaican drivers and wanted someone from the US.
Isabelle called the mother and asked for the transport company’s phone number. The mother gave Isabelle three numbers and Isabelle called and left the numbers on Patti’s voice-mail. Patti had also asked Isabelle to call the transport company to find out if they would be able to do this in such short notice, which she did.
When Isabelle dialed the first number someone from Midwest Academy answered the phone. Isabelle indicated she had the wrong number and called the other numbers. When Isabelle realized the error, she immediately called Patti and left a voice-mail message letting her know the first number was incorrect and that she should not call it.
There was no reason for Isabelle to research Sunrise Transport – they were being used as a glorified Taxi service to drive the adults to and from the facility. Not to transport a child.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:14:28 AM
Appears to my more like the modern version of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf", only Isabelle's not the wolf. I wonder who is? Any guesses? Anyone?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:14:31 AM
Okay let's get back to the topic.
Apparently, Isabelle Zehnder violated the terms of her own disclaimer when she referred someone (Patty) who she believed to be a parent to PURE and also, an UNLICENSED child transport company in Utah.
Isabelle could have told this parent she was sorry, but CAICA and left it at that.
That is her disclaimer. Her own words.
Case Closed.
Party Over.
Turn off the lights and lock the door on your way out.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:16:19 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Okay let's get back to the topic.
Apparently, Isabelle Zehnder violated the terms of her own disclaimer when she referred someone (Patty) who she believed to be a parent to PURE and also, an UNLICENSED child transport company in Utah.
Isabelle could have told this parent she was sorry, but CAICA and left it at that.
That is her disclaimer. Her own words.
Case Closed.
Party Over.
Turn off the lights and lock the door on your way out.
Sorry - not shutting off the lights quite yet. Let's try this one more time, shall we?
In February Isabelle was contacted by a mother who wanted to remove her son from an abusive facility in Jamaica. The mother hired Sunrise Transport to bring him back to the states.
After weeks of working with Patti Isabelle received a call from her inquiring how other parents had removed their children from this facility. When Isabelle told Patti this mother had used a transport company Patti asked if Isabelle could get her the number.
Patti said the family would be flying to Jamaica the following day. Isabelle, confused, asked why they would want to hire the transport company when they were flying to Jamaica to pick up her nephew. Patti explained the family did not trust Jamaican drivers and wanted someone from the US.
Isabelle called the mother and asked for the transport company’s phone number. The mother gave Isabelle three numbers and Isabelle called and left the numbers on Patti’s voice-mail. Patti had also asked Isabelle to call the transport company to find out if they would be able to do this in such short notice, which she did.
When Isabelle dialed the first number someone from Midwest Academy answered the phone. Isabelle indicated she had the wrong number and called the other numbers. When Isabelle realized the error, she immediately called Patti and left a voice-mail message letting her know the first number was incorrect and that she should not call it.
There was no reason for Isabelle to research Sunrise Transport – they were being used as a glorified Taxi service to drive the adults to and from the facility. Not to transport a child.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:18:17 AM
It seems that A CERTAIN PERSON has already been told that talking about herself in the 3rd person like this IS NOT mentally healthy. Now scoot along old girl, get some sleep---and here's a promise: you...ALL OF YOU...will feel better in the moring. Nite, Nite old girl.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:21:43 AM
Quote from: Guest
Someone emailed me that Catherine had aligned herself with your website,
I haven't aligned myself with any "ONE" website. But, I will join forces with those who are TRUE Child Advocates and believe in protecting children the way I do. I was pleased to join with others by placing the "NO REFERAL ZONE" logo on my website. Is this the website alignment you are referring to??
and frankly I am a bit amazed, considering you appear to be a foul mouth, disrespectful bunch of renengades, using her for your cause,
No one is using me to further their cause. But, if you want to talk about people using people, I can share a story with you about someone calling me in May of last year claiming to be doing a report. I believe this person was using me to get information to use towards re-incarnating her website.
which I think in the long run will be detrimental to her cause,
I don't think speaking up on this website is going to hurt my reputation or cause. It's called freedom of speech.
and it's my belief she will lose any credibility by staying aligned with you guys.
My so-called credibility is the fact that my daughter Michelle died a tortorous death in a program owned and operated by stupid people. I now speak up on behalf of my daughter and others who have suffered, and or, lost their "young" lives to this industry.
How about you and I change places and you can have my credibility.
Your mouths are a complete turn off, this coming from someone who has already donated, and have second thoughts at doing it again.
I haven't called you any names. I speak from the pain in my heart that will continue to hurt for the rest of my life.
FYI............... There is a misconception floating around on this forum that the Michelle Sutton Memorial Fund, Inc. received a donation of some kind.
The Michelle Sutton Memorial Fund, Inc. is governed by family members. We haven't received donations since our last fund raiser ten years ago.
Goodnight all,
Michelle Sutton Memorial Fund, Inc. Catherine Sutton
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:22:09 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Okay let's get back to the topic.
Apparently, Isabelle Zehnder violated the terms of her own disclaimer when she referred someone (Patty) who she believed to be a parent to PURE and also, an UNLICENSED child transport company in Utah.
Isabelle could have told this parent she was sorry, but CAICA and left it at that.
That is her disclaimer. Her own words.
Case Closed.
Party Over.
Turn off the lights and lock the door on your way out.
Buh-Bye Isabelle.
This party is definitly over.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:22:25 AM
WOLF, WOLF, WOLF
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:27:53 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Okay let's get back to the topic.
Apparently, Isabelle Zehnder violated the terms of her own disclaimer when she referred someone (Patty) who she believed to be a parent to PURE
You people are having a tough time getting it, I can see. So let's try this one more time.
Isabelle does not refer to programs. Only under extreme cases has Isabelle provided parents a number to call for program options and only once, that she is aware of, has a child been placed into a program under these circumstances. Isabelle did not charge a referral fee and received no money for referring this child.
What the hell do you people think she should do when she gets calls from parents and there's no other choice left? Do you live in the real world? Have you listened, judges are sending kids to programs and sometimes there is no option and it is not up ot parents. What, send the parent off to fend for themselves on the internet? Or maybe guide the to some ed con? Come on - get real.
Let me ask you this - what would you tell a parent who said hey, my kid is in TB and I just found out it's abuisve. I was sold a wonderful program and sent him there a few months ago. I'm not a person who uses the computer much so I didn't know there was anything wrong. I got worried when they started cutting off communication and telling me my kid was a liar. I know that he's not. He might have done some bad shit but a liar, no. Not my son.
So I knew what I had to do, I had to go get him out of there. But I couldn't because a judge had ordered him to be there. I called my attroney and had him set another court date. The judge agreed that if we found another program that we felt was safer for our son he woudl order him back to this country.
Now - what do you do with this parent? The kid has to go to a program and there is nothing in your area, you've got 48 hours to make a decision. Well, when parents call Isabelle and she has to deal with these things she has to use her best judgment.
Hell, at least she's had the guts to be out there helping families. Maybe you should all send her your phone number so she could refer these poeple to you and you could guide them. Tell me, where would you send these poeple? To the local therapist? Wrong answer - judge won't buy that. these judges are brutal these days and you're lucky to get one to change their original ruling. THink about it.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:29:37 AM
Quote
There was no reason for Isabelle to research Sunrise Transport – they were being used as a glorified Taxi service to drive the adults to and from the facility. Not to transport a child.
Sure --- keep telling yourself that Izzy.
You referred a parent to an unlicensed transport company to drive them to and from a facility. Guess the kid wasn't part of the deal, huh?
How stupid do you think people are to buy this crap?
Why don't you just admit you screwed up by violating the terms of your own disclaimer? Wouldn't that be the grownup, mature thing to do?
:roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:31:11 AM
Is that really Cathy Sutton? Who said anything about when they donated?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:41:42 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Okay let's get back to the topic.
Apparently, Isabelle Zehnder violated the terms of her own disclaimer when she referred someone (Patty) who she believed to be a parent to PURE
You people are having a tough time getting it, I can see. So let's try this one more time.
Isabelle does not refer to programs. Only under extreme cases has Isabelle provided parents a number to call for program options and only once, that she is aware of, has a child been placed into a program under these circumstances. Isabelle did not charge a referral fee and received no money for referring this child.
What the hell do you people think she should do when she gets calls from parents and there's no other choice left? Do you live in the real world? Have you listened, judges are sending kids to programs and sometimes there is no option and it is not up ot parents. What, send the parent off to fend for themselves on the internet? Or maybe guide the to some ed con? Come on - get real.
Let me ask you this - what would you tell a parent who said hey, my kid is in TB and I just found out it's abuisve. I was sold a wonderful program and sent him there a few months ago. I'm not a person who uses the computer much so I didn't know there was anything wrong. I got worried when they started cutting off communication and telling me my kid was a liar. I know that he's not. He might have done some bad shit but a liar, no. Not my son.
So I knew what I had to do, I had to go get him out of there. But I couldn't because a judge had ordered him to be there. I called my attroney and had him set another court date. The judge agreed that if we found another program that we felt was safer for our son he woudl order him back to this country.
Now - what do you do with this parent? The kid has to go to a program and there is nothing in your area, you've got 48 hours to make a decision. Well, when parents call Isabelle and she has to deal with these things she has to use her best judgment.
Hell, at least she's had the guts to be out there helping families. Maybe you should all send her your phone number so she could refer these poeple to you and you could guide them. Tell me, where would you send these poeple? To the local therapist? Wrong answer - judge won't buy that. these judges are brutal these days and you're lucky to get one to change their original ruling. THink about it.
Look Izzy - try as you might - you aren't going to be able to spin this into a positive.
It is what it is. Why can't you just accept it? You are 50 something years old and acting like a teenager.
Do you need a program to help raise your emotional intelligence?
Or, can you spare some of your precious time and give yourself a free 30 minute consultation?
I promise not to laugh.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:42:34 AM
If she admitted she screwed up under unusual circumstances by not first checking sources because she was under unusual pressure, and lets face it people, are you perfect, have you ever made a mistake, and the facts of the story you believed, would it matter?
I wonder what it would be like if someone was sitting around crawling all over everything you do with a microscope, waiting in the lurch for you to make a mistake, like a wicked upper level employee just waiting for an excuse to have you fired, or for that matter, finding a way to trap you when you were over-worked and not paid. And don't tell me you've never been in that position, I am talking to the parents now, not the kids.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:47:23 AM
Someone stands to benefit from knocking these people off a ladder of success, and for me, I can't wait to see who it is, and then maybe, just maybe, say "TOLD YAH SO"!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:49:16 AM
Yah, meanwhile, no one is keeping their eyes on the real culprit, and the kids and parents are going to pay the price.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:51:33 AM
Quote
you've never been in that position, I am talking to the parents now, not the kids
Don't you realize that many of the kids are now parents, but then you are only concerned about parents, and not Kids, is the way it sounds, to me.
It also seems to me that parents that complain about being duped, are trashed all over blogs, that makes no sense, then try to defend your actions.
I honestly have no agenda, I am just watching the posts. Seems like ya all ought to take your little red wagon and go home.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:51:40 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
If she admitted she screwed up under unusual circumstances by not first checking sources because she was under unusual pressure, and lets face it people, are you perfect, have you ever made a mistake, and the facts of the story you believed, would it matter?
I wonder what it would be like if someone was sitting around crawling all over everything you do with a microscope, waiting in the lurch for you to make a mistake, like a wicked upper level employee just waiting for an excuse to have you fired, or for that matter, finding a way to trap you when you were over-worked and not paid. And don't tell me you've never been in that position, I am talking to the parents now, not the kids.
For the last time, Isabelle Zehnder was not "trapped" into anything. Nobody forced her to refer this parent to PURE and some transport company. That was her idea. She violated her own disclaimer.
::bangin::
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:52:08 AM
Quote
How stupid do you think people are to buy this crap?
I think you are overlooking something. Someone lied and set Isabelle up. She wondered if this person was legit and because she believed there was a kid in TB she was willing to put everything on the line to help this woman "Patti Atwoods".
This is the thanks she gets. You are really pathetic.
She gave Patti the information Patti requested. Tell me, what would you have done to help Patti?
Patti is probably one of you idiots posting here.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:58:24 AM
Quote
For the last time, Isabelle Zehnder was not "trapped" into anything. Nobody forced her to refer this parent to PURE and some transport company. That was her idea. She violated her own disclaimer.
Nope, you're wrong. I know it's hard for you to admit that but read what has been posted here. Isabelle was not wrong. She did not violate anything. She does the best she can to help people who come to her.
And like it or not CAICA has a very strong backing behind it. There is a lot of work being done to try to make things better for kids. Why would you try to harm that in any way? Have you gone out there and built a website like hers? She did it herself. Have you given up your free time most of the time to help others? I think it's time to stop the CAICA bashing and move on.
I like the idea of going after someone else who really deserves it - there are plenty of them out there. You know, the ones abusing the kids and the ed cons like Jane Hawley who make a load of money each month referring to abusive programs. Why pick on someone who's trying her damndest to make a difference?
WHy, because half of you on her are probably supporters of programs, that's why. Progbably getting paid off to boot. What else would drive you to try to ruin something like CAICA?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:58:46 AM
I am most definately concerned about both. What I was saying was to the parents, period. Not the kids just getting out of the program, who have never held down and job or dealt with those politics. Just clarifying, and I believe you don't have an agenda. So thanks, next time I will be more careful how I phrase things, because they are definately under scrutiny on this site, and can be phrase to suit anyone's need.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:00:55 AM
Correction: Re-phrased to suit anyone's need.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:03:22 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
It seems that A CERTAIN PERSON has already been told that talking about herself in the 3rd person like this IS NOT mentally healthy. Now scoot along old girl, get some sleep---and here's a promise: you...ALL OF YOU...will feel better in the moring. Nite, Nite old girl.
Get over yourselves. I doubt Isabelle is sitting here wasting her time on this idiot board.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:06:06 AM
OMG, I was just thinking the same thing. I think you just hit the nail on the head. OMG.
Are there really WWASP supporters here who are doing their best to discredit Isabelle and any other advocates against WWASP, and other accused, abusive programs, here for their own financial gain? OMG, what if that were true? I can't believe this, I was just thinking the same thing yesterday, and then again today.
Something to think about.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:08:33 AM
That might explain why there are people here trying to discredit both parties. Think about it! Who stands to gain by having desention in the ranks?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:09:19 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
For the last time, Isabelle Zehnder was not "trapped" into anything. Nobody forced her to refer this parent to PURE and some transport company. That was her idea. She violated her own disclaimer.
Nope, you're wrong. I know it's hard for you to admit that but read what has been posted here. Isabelle was not wrong. She did not violate anything. She does the best she can to help people who come to her.
And like it or not CAICA has a very strong backing behind it. There is a lot of work being done to try to make things better for kids. Why would you try to harm that in any way? Have you gone out there and built a website like hers? She did it herself. Have you given up your free time most of the time to help others? I think it's time to stop the CAICA bashing and move on.
I like the idea of going after someone else who really deserves it - there are plenty of them out there. You know, the ones abusing the kids and the ed cons like Jane Hawley who make a load of money each month referring to abusive programs. Why pick on someone who's trying her damndest to make a difference?
WHy, because half of you on her are probably supporters of programs, that's why. Progbably getting paid off to boot. What else would drive you to try to ruin something like CAICA?
CAICA lost it's credibility a long time ago. Where have YOU been?
:rofl:
:rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:09:35 AM
Quote
No one is using me to further their cause. But, if you want to talk about people using people, I can share a story with you about someone calling me in May of last year claiming to be doing a report. I believe this person was using me to get information to use towards re-incarnating her website.
Nope, don't think so Cathy. Your daugther is not the only child who has died, there are plenty of others unfortunately. I don't think anyone would try to take your daughter's story for the purpose of re-incarnating their site. Now that doesn't even make sense. No offense, truly sorry you lost your daughter. But it's no reason to attack someone else. If you're talking about Isabelle I know she spent a lot of money to go be with you at the march in Sacramento because she cared. She doesn't need your story, she's got so many she can barely keep up with it all.
Time to move on.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:11:23 AM
Quote
CAICA lost it's credibility a long time ago. Where have YOU been?
Only in your very small corner of the world. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:13:00 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
No one is using me to further their cause. But, if you want to talk about people using people, I can share a story with you about someone calling me in May of last year claiming to be doing a report. I believe this person was using me to get information to use towards re-incarnating her website.
Nope, don't think so Cathy. Your daugther is not the only child who has died, there are plenty of others unfortunately. I don't think anyone would try to take your daughter's story for the purpose of re-incarnating their site. Now that doesn't even make sense. No offense, truly sorry you lost your daughter. But it's no reason to attack someone else. If you're talking about Isabelle I know she spent a lot of money to go be with you at the march in Sacramento because she cared. She doesn't need your story, she's got so many she can barely keep up with it all.
Time to move on.
::puke::
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:14:21 AM
Absolutely. Keep both waring factors busy while the real enemy slips underneith the fence, undetected. Isn't that how WWASP operates?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:15:39 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
No one is using me to further their cause. But, if you want to talk about people using people, I can share a story with you about someone calling me in May of last year claiming to be doing a report. I believe this person was using me to get information to use towards re-incarnating her website.
Nope, don't think so Cathy. Your daugther is not the only child who has died, there are plenty of others unfortunately. I don't think anyone would try to take your daughter's story for the purpose of re-incarnating their site. Now that doesn't even make sense. No offense, truly sorry you lost your daughter. But it's no reason to attack someone else. If you're talking about Isabelle I know she spent a lot of money to go be with you at the march in Sacramento because she cared. She doesn't need your story, she's got so many she can barely keep up with it all.
Time to move on.
Izzy - go to bed. Your personalities must be exhausted.
:roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:16:20 AM
Quote
Not the kids just getting out of the program
Why don't the Kids have a say so, they went through it. Doesn't anyone want real feedback, on if the programs work or not. They are the ones who are in pain and angry. I just don't get this kind of attitude at all, like they are nothing because they don't make money, that to me looks like a bad way of thinking....
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:17:52 AM
I wonder who the mastermind behind this is, got any ideas?
Title: pick on Litchfield
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:17:55 AM
Why not pick on someone like LIchfield - he deserves it - Isabelle doesn't.
Or Ken Kay, Randall Hinton, Wayne Winder, Martin Wilson.............
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:22:04 AM
You're not getting what was said, guest was asking parents who have been in the working field for years, most kids, specially those who have never had a job, and have been in the program don't understand the politics of some businesses that thrive on this type of pressure. No offence was mean't to you, program kids. Those of you program kids who have been in the politics of this type I am sure were included. I am guessing is was coming from a parent, and it wasn't mean't to hurt/harm you in way.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:24:29 AM
Screw Ken Kay, let me get my pepper spray on Jay Kay any day. Lieing son of a biscuit maker.
Title: Re: pick on Litchfield
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:24:55 AM
Quote from: ""Not Buyin' it""
Why not pick on someone like LIchfield - he deserves it - Isabelle doesn't.
Or Ken Kay, Randall Hinton, Wayne Winder, Martin Wilson.............
Give it a rest Izzy. It's time to move on. Nobody is listening to your ranting and raving anymore.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:32:48 AM
You know, all this squabbling back and forth isn't doing anyone any good. Why don't all of you work together on helping the survivors of these programs?
There are still parents and kids out there killing themselves for what they have been through, and this, is in no way, helping anyone.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:35:15 AM
Are you thinking of doing something?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:39:23 AM
It's not like the thought hasn't crossed my mind.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 03:49:29 AM
Alright then. It's just been thoughts in the past, and not now, right?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 28, 2007, 03:54:12 AM
Quote from: ""V""
You better hope I don't find out who is impersonating me since you can sign in as anything you want. That's fraud, and impersonating me is illegal. Keep it up.
So register a username and it won't happen.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 04:00:43 AM
Right. I am fine. I am just wondering , though, how many times that feeling is going to come back, and what if my kid has the same thoughts, and then acts on them? What about other parents and their kids too, that are still out there going through this?
I don't care how good or bad these programs are, they still leave a lasting impression on everyone. And once you're out, most are left behind, not knowing what to do, or where to turn. That's why you guys have to get yourselves on the same page. You're not helping anyone, by hurting the other, and make it even more difficult for us to trust anyone in this field. What do you think that leaves us with?
Someone has to step up to the plate, or it's always going to be the same.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 04:03:01 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
You know, all this squabbling back and forth isn't doing anyone any good. Why don't all of you work together on helping the survivors of these programs?
There are still parents and kids out there killing themselves for what they have been through, and this, is in no way, helping anyone.
Guest - are you completely clueless?
Fornits has been helping survivors in a number of ways for many years. It is the MOST widely respected and trafficked discussion forum on the web relevant to this issue.
No one organization can solve all the issues but the folks here are making a measurable difference. Rather than demean their contribution, you would be wise to show some respect and not insult our intelligence or our integrity.
The only people bickering are the two people who appear to be friends or supporters of CAICA. The rest are simply trying to keep it real.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 04:08:04 AM
I am not clueless, in fact, I am more than that. You don't have a clue as to what I have gone through, or am going through, or..., it doesn't really matter does it. Forget it. I feel like my words are falling on deaf ears.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 04:09:47 AM
You're not hearing me. No one is!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 04:10:49 AM
Quote
Isabelle does not refer to programs. Only under extreme cases has Isabelle provided parents a number to call for program options and only once, that she is aware of, has a child been placed into a program under these circumstances. Isabelle did not charge a referral fee and received no money for referring this child.
Wow, anybody know what facility helped place this child in? Was it done through PURE?
Source: Editorial Board of CAICA http://pattiatwoods.blogspot.com/ (http://pattiatwoods.blogspot.com/)
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 04:15:01 AM
People hear you. You're not alone. There are people out there that truly care, and are there to talk to you and your family, and help you through this.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 04:17:19 AM
I am tired, and want to go to bed. Maybe I will pick this up in the morning.
Thanks.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 04:18:29 AM
More double speak from Isabelle.
Isabelle does not refer to programs.
Then this:
Only under extreme cases has Isabelle provided parents a number to call for program options and only once, that she is aware of, has a child been placed into a program under these circumstances.
Isabelle does not seem to realize it only takes ONE REFERRAL to disqualify herself as someone who "does not refer".
The fact that she ALSO referred the parent (Patty) to PURE as well as a transport company suggests to me that Isabelle has a very selective memory.
That's two referred parents (not one) that we know of, is it not?
:roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 04:26:01 AM
Does Sue Scheff USE this Sunrise Transport Company? IF so, to what programs are they transporting PURE kids to?
Something smells fishy here.
I am not impressed with that blog of Izzy's. Who the hell is the Editorial Board of CAICA?
I demand an answer!!!!!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 04:32:31 AM
Yes, and water she drowns, fire she burns, oooops.....she's not a witch.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 28, 2007, 04:56:46 AM
PSY SETS THE RECORD STRAIGHT
My name is Michael Crawford. I do live in Virginia, as Isabelle stated. I did go to Benchmark and I was hurt there. Some parents don't seem to realize that WWASP does not own a monopoly on abuse in, or out of this country. After leaving Benchmark in 2002, I began to speak out against the place online, specifically, on Tom Croke's website, "Bridge to Understanding Online". Sue Scheff found my posting, contacted me, and invited me to Trekkers. As soon as she found out Benchmark was not WWASP, she totally lost interest in my story, or anything I had to say. I was of no _use_ to her. Soon afterwards, it became clear that Sue was not interested in shutting down all abusive programs... just her competition, WWASP. Had she not tried to defraud the referral system at WWASP, i theorize she would probably still be working for them. Sue Scheff does NOT care about the kids, and neither does her marketing department, Isabelle Zehnder's CAICA. They care about making money.
I am really "that radical", I believe that all programs should be shut down. Anybody who has actually done enough research into this industry would probably come to a similar conclusion. There comes a point where an entire industry is so thoroughly corrupt that, even though there might be one or two safe programs, the overall risk is far too high. Saying "shutting down the entire industry is impossible" is like saying "abolishing slavery entirely is impossible". Regardless of how difficult it may my, it DOES NOT MATTER. Abuse, regardless of scope, is still wrong.
Unlike Sue Scheff, I do not make a single penny of my time I spend trying to fight this industry by my actions on and offline, Arguably, I could have easily "moved on" or "got over it" but that would mean ignoring the plight of people who, today, are still suffering what I went through (and far worse). Arguably, I have lost money by fighting this battle, because I could easily be getting paid large sums of money by working in IT full time (as I did, for a while after Benchmark). There are times when I have sacrificed grades in school, or even missed classes to help fight this industry. There is no question that I am obsessed. There is a modern day holocaust going on in this country right now, and it's not just WWASP. I question the ethics of anybody who isn't appalled by what is going on this very moment under the guise of "treatment".
Unlike Isabelle Zehnder, I don't claim to be an advocate. I'm just a survivor who speaks out about his experiences, and takes the fight to those who participate directly or indirectly in abuse. Educational consultants who refer to programs participate in abuse. Like Catherine Sutton said, "Look up the word negligent". Sue Scheff, by her own admission under oath, claimed to be an Educational Consultant, and admitted to functioning in that role for all intensive purposes.** She admitted to taking money in return for referrals to programs she had not directly investigated.** Isabelle Zehnder, who claims to be an advocate, not only refers to Sue Scheff, but also To Sunrise Adolescent Transport, who actively work with WWASP (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=264830#264830). Like Catherine Sutton said, "Look up the word negligent". In my opinion, it more than crosses the line into criminal negligence, but that is up for a court to decide.
As far as the rest of Isabelle's allegations against me and others... I'm not going to even justify much of that with a response. I did not threaten her via Email, though in true hypocritical fashion, that is exactly what she did to me. (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=264836#264836) If there is anything anybody is curious about regarding her allegations against me, please, feel free to ask me publicly, and I will answer.
* see Patti emails ** see WWASP vs. PURE transcript
Edit: PS: the entire purpose of Patti Atwoods was to find out if Isabelle Zehnder was secretly referring to PURE and/or programs and/or escort services. It's called investigative reporting. Isabelle failed the honesty test as her actions show she violates her own disclaimer of neutrality when it suits her. She can scream "I WAS DUPED" all she wants, for all I care, it merely shows how upset she is at getting caught with her hand in the cookie jar.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 05:17:56 AM
Great Post, Psy! ::kiss::
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 08:30:50 AM
I second that. Great post Psy!! ::cheers::
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 28, 2007, 09:27:16 AM
Quote
I am really "that radical", I believe that all programs should be shut down. Anybody who has actually done enough research into this industry would probably come to a similar conclusion. There comes a point where an entire industry is so thoroughly corrupt that, even though there might be one or two safe programs, the overall risk is far too high. Saying "shutting down the entire industry is impossible" is like saying "abolishing slavery entirely is impossible". Regardless of how difficult it may my, it DOES NOT MATTER. Abuse, regardless of scope, is still wrong.
The average noob to this issue comes around with some sort of idea that there are these bad places out there that hurt kids. In principle they object to them, but in the same breath they often say, "Something has to be done to help these kids." Far be it for me to suggest that this concept of help is often at odds with the definition of the word help itself.
Help implies something positive is being gained from it, and not at all the emotional, physical, and spiritual reaming of ghastly proportions that has been the norm for far more years than can be counted. I don't think that most people, no matter what their involvement to this issue, understand that the evil within this industry isn't due to a recent rot being set into the otherwise health body of teen help facilities.
Who really hears about Synonan anymore? I never once heard about it till it was suggested I investigate it by another.
How many people know what the lawsuit was about that smashed CEDU? My own brother attended RMA and doesn't seem to be able to speak on the subject without spewing out a torrent of sycophantic CEDU adoration.
I've decided not to speak much about Izzy and Sue. Many might not see it, but in a few months to a year those two will be just another blip on the radar. We will look back on them with a chuckle. To bad really that Issabelle had to align herself with Sue. Perhaps had she not done so she might have turned out differently. Instead she is going to end up another victim of an industry that ought to be scoured from the earth with flame throwers.
How many lives has this industry ended, deformed, or left bleeding? I certainly refuse to venture a guess, but anyone who comes into contact with this cesspit of evil is a victim of it in one way or another. Issabelle is a victim of her own circumstances, but at least that gives her more power to control the situation by doing what is right.
Issabelle, I just want you to know one thing. People are going to remember you for both how you entered into this mess and how you leave it.
You can choose to fight this all you want and be ran out of town on a rail without one shred of self-respect to your name.
Or..
You can do the right thing by helping those who need it against Sue Scheff. No favors are owed to Sue by yourself. This will allow you to walk away under your own power with your head held high. At least you will have some shreds of your dignity left to you to cling to.
All it will take is for you to speak the right words into a certain attorney's ear. I know, within a reasonable degree of certainity, your words would be most welcome.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 10:53:39 AM
Isabelle Zehnder didn't just enter into this "mess" she played a central role in helping to create it.
Isabelle Zehnder a "victim"?
I don't think so TSW.
:roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 10:56:55 AM
Quote from: ""psy""
Excellent post Psy. As usual, you hit the nail squarely on the head.
:nworthy:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 10:57:39 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
More double speak from Isabelle.
Isabelle does not refer to programs.
Then this:
Only under extreme cases has Isabelle provided parents a number to call for program options and only once, that she is aware of, has a child been placed into a program under these circumstances.
Isabelle does not seem to realize it only takes ONE REFERRAL to disqualify herself as someone who "does not refer".
The fact that she ALSO referred the parent (Patty) to PURE as well as a transport company suggests to me that Isabelle has a very selective memory.
That's two referred parents (not one) that we know of, is it not?
:roll:
Maybe you don't get it. Isabelle does not refer children to programs. She has given parents resources, many of them, and not to put their kids in programs but to keep their kids out of programs. If you only knew how many kids are out because she helped you'd stop nagging on this issue.
She believes in keeping kids home wiht parents when at all possible and sometimes its' not. she is not a referral business, there is a huge difference between being a referral business and in helping people find althernative help for the kids.
You know what? Any normal person will get it. I don't know why you don't on this board. Radical is exactly the word. Anyone would understand the situation where there is no where else to turn but to find a safe place. If she'd been around when you went to a program maybe you wouldn't have ended up in an abusive one.
and her website is not all about wwasps.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 28, 2007, 10:59:57 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Isabelle Zehnder didn't just enter into this "mess" she played a central role in helping to create it.
Isabelle Zehnder a "victim"?
I don't think so TSW.
:roll:
Revise your time frame and back it up a few years. We all started somewhere in this and once upon a time she was very new to this industry and made some bad choices in her associations.. She is a victim of her choices.
Much like you are a victim of your own lack of ability to properly read.
Now that is roll worthy.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 11:04:36 AM
Quote
Sue Scheff does NOT care about the kids, and neither does her marketing department, Isabelle Zehnder's CAICA. They care about making money.
Have proof Isabelle cares more about money than kids? Put your money where your mouth is. Let's see documentation that she's made a penny off of advocating for kids. She has a right to earn a living through her new company if she wants to help kids instead of work in law. She has worked for four years helping kids and has earned NO money doing it. She's just like the rest of the people in this world who need to make money. We live in a free country where she can choose her profession just like you can.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on June 28, 2007, 11:05:37 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
More double speak from Isabelle.
Isabelle does not refer to programs.
Then this:
Only under extreme cases has Isabelle provided parents a number to call for program options and only once, that she is aware of, has a child been placed into a program under these circumstances.
Isabelle does not seem to realize it only takes ONE REFERRAL to disqualify herself as someone who "does not refer".
The fact that she ALSO referred the parent (Patty) to PURE as well as a transport company suggests to me that Isabelle has a very selective memory.
That's two referred parents (not one) that we know of, is it not?
:roll:
Maybe you don't get it. Isabelle does not refer children to programs. She has given parents resources, many of them, and not to put their kids in programs but to keep their kids out of programs. If you only knew how many kids are out because she helped you'd stop nagging on this issue.
She believes in keeping kids home wiht parents when at all possible and sometimes its' not. she is not a referral business, there is a huge difference between being a referral business and in helping people find althernative help for the kids.
You know what? Any normal person will get it. I don't know why you don't on this board. Radical is exactly the word. Anyone would understand the situation where there is no where else to turn but to find a safe place. If she'd been around when you went to a program maybe you wouldn't have ended up in an abusive one.
and her website is not all about wwasps.
Maybe she refers kids to people who refer kids to people who refer kids to programs?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 28, 2007, 11:07:30 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Maybe you don't get it. Isabelle does not refer children to programs. She has given parents resources, many of them, and not to put their kids in programs but to keep their kids out of programs. If you only knew how many kids are out because she helped you'd stop nagging on this issue.
She believes in keeping kids home wiht parents when at all possible and sometimes its' not. she is not a referral business, there is a huge difference between being a referral business and in helping people find althernative help for the kids.
You know what? Any normal person will get it. I don't know why you don't on this board. Radical is exactly the word. Anyone would understand the situation where there is no where else to turn but to find a safe place. If she'd been around when you went to a program maybe you wouldn't have ended up in an abusive one.
and her website is not all about wwasps.
How in the hell is Izzy even qualified to present these "Alternatives"?
Title: TSW
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 11:07:51 AM
Looks like 3 Springs Waygookin is Dan the Chainsaw Man
About me: I live in Korea where I am a professional edutainer. Prior to my arrival to Korea I worked as a youth counselor for 4 very long years. As an amusing side note I remember the promise myself I made the very moment my plane landed in Korea. I promised I would never work as a youth counselor ever again. No more late nights filled with chaotic screams. No more screwed up group meetings filled with stories that make me sick in the stomach. Seriously though.. loved the kids.. they were great.. the rest of the staff.. meh.. A few gems in the rough, but the rest where a waste of space. Now I spend my time writing, reading, watching movies, and very slowly and carefully rehabilitating my blown out knees. Just recently I participated in my first ever Yongsan Hash House Harriers walk/run. Given the condition of my knees I took my time and walked. Not up to running up any hills. Have to say the after party was mildly amusing. Listening to them sing their songs reminded me alot of playing rugby back in Uni. Life is good. I could whine and complain alot about how I was thrown some curves. In reality that would be a bunch of total lies. No matter what I can't escape the obvious. I am alive. I am reasonably healthy. I have ten fingers and ten toes. I have my hobbies. One of these days I will start brewing my own beer. What more can a feller ask for? MySpace Editor MySpace Layouts MySpace Editor Icons Collage MySpace Graphics Photo Collage Banner
___________________
His first post on Fornits: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... ht=#115011 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=115011&highlight=#115011)
TS Waygookin Disorganized Crime Boss
Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 3191 Location: 5 miles due south of hell.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:36 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
I was reading over this forum, and I was immediately impressed with the intensity of the posters in general. With a great deal of thought I have decided to post my own experience as a staff member at a Three Springs Facility. I was a counselor, Master Counselor C3, for nearly two years at this particular program. To be honest the more time I have spent away from the program, the more guilt I have felt for what I have seen, and further what I had done.
Let me start with the beginning. I had just completed 2 years at another wilderness facility. It was a good place, physical restraints were kept to a minimum. Verbal de-escalation techniques were strongly encouraged. The camp leadership had spent years encouraging the growth of a strong culture emphasizing alternatives to physical management. We routinely utilized the group process method of huddles to discuss issues, and sometimes did so for many hours of a day. Nonetheless, the camp's mission of character improvement for adjudicated youth worked well, and had results for kids who would have otherwise been thrown in a detention center. [Yet he now claims all programs are bad? All should be shut down?]
After my two years in the swamps, I moved on to Three Springs. From the very moment I made my counselor visit I should have known better than to accept employment at that facility. Everyone of my instincts screamed, "BAD PROGRAM!" In my 24 hour counselor visit I witnessed numerous events, and had a great many concerns. In a program that models itself on the group therapy model that uses a group to facilitate treatment of individual issues, they had huge groups. The groups looked shabby, and dispirited. The campsites appeared to be an apalling mess. The counselors had a far to casual relationship with their residents. Let me delve into the details of each item individually, starting with the size of the groups.
The group therapy model as I experienced it works best when the size of the group is between 6 and 10 residents. Two of the groups on the Three Springs campus had groups of 15 youths. What happens in my experience is that the size of the group makes for lessened experience. For example, the bigger the group, the less attention can be paided to an individual youth's issues. The smaller the group, means a lack of social dynamics to stimulate the youth's group therapy. The explanation I was given by the Supervisor on duty entailed lack of staff. Apparently the facility had just went through a large reduction of staff, and was so bad they had office personell covering some of the groups. This alone should have been a big sign to myself that something was truly wrong with this particular site. Well if you can't guess I didn't catch on, but in fact witnessed a great deal more.
The groups were sloppy, and dispirited. They were poorly dressed in dirty, and torn clothing. They looked depressed, and honestly like a pack of beaten dogs. At first I was certain they had were just tired from working all day. As I spent time with the group I was assigned to for the day a few of them informed me this was the way they looked all the time. I was immediately concerned. How can you expect a group of boys to feel good about themselves if they are dressed like a pack of bums? You simply can not! Kids in programs do not need designer clothing, but they do need clean, well maintained clothes. They need to change their clothes daily. I was told by a counselor that they allowed the kids to decide when to change their clothes.
With a bit of investigation I found it was not uncommon that a few of the residents had gone more than a few days without changing their clothing. In fact, some of them simply did not have the clothing to change into, despite numerous letters written to their family workers to get more clothing from home.
The one thing I know is that if you want to improve the self esteem of anyone its probably a bad idea to let them go a few days wearing dirty nasty clothing. If you want a kid to trust you as a staff member you should probably not just turn a blind eye to his lack of clothing. In the last program I worked with we were frequently told to make darn good and sure that clothing items were not an issue. We had an entire section of the camp warehouse full of pants, shirts, and coats for kids who did not have enough clothing. Three Springs unlike the last program is a for profit enterprise. If a kid did not have clothes, he had to get them from home, and sometimes that took months.
Not only did these kids look like a pack of vagrants they certainly appeared to feel like them as well. They looked shabby, they were extremely negative about the program, and voiced constant statements about the depth of their own feelings of worthlessness. This really worried me. A good counselor would have found activities to help these kids feel better. A good counselor would have found building projects to not only build something useful, but to build a sense of ownership, and pride in a group of kids who hated everything around themselves. Ok I do realize that kids, and adults are not going to be fans of programs, but I do know from personal experience the kids will begin to feel ownership over their own situation [Hmmmmm …. Wonder what he means by from “personal” experience?]. If that sense of ownership is inherently negative, what good is the program doing them? NOT a damn thing.
Their campsites were for the most part an appalling pig pens. I nearly refused to sleep in the cabin due to the stench. Apparently cleaning of campsites was to time consuming, and something they only did when they needed. Oh god help me I was so disgusted. Its bad enough that they looked like bums, now the counselors did not seem to care that they lived in trash pits? What positive statement was being sent to these children? Nothing that I could tell. The only thing they appeared to be learning was, "Look like a bum feel like a bum, then go to your campsite, and live like a bum." The real sad part was most of the kids seemed like pretty descent sorts. Most of them had substance abuse, and self esteem problems. For the most part they were a fun loving bunch of guys. The kind of kids who really could have benifited from a work hard, play hard mentality. They were lazy, but what the heck thats something you can unlearn. I frankly had a hard time understand why half of them were even in a program.
Not only did I have a hard time understanding why they were in a program, I somehow convinced myself I could make a difference with my experience. Stupid. I should have said no and ran away screaming. None the less I reported to work, and underwent my 100 or so hours of orientation training. None of which was of any use to me. I had already received 4 times that amount of training at my previous program. A program that prided itself in simplicity of the group process, rather than what I would learn would be the hell of individual consquences. I spent most of my orientation trying to remain in the full awake posture. Somehow I graduated orientation, and was promptly asked to work with the young kids.
Off I toddled to the young kid's group. I really liked those kids they were a bunch of hell raisers of the first order. Never a dull moment for that matter. However, lets discuss not only the failings of the program, but MY FAILINGS as a counselor. These were a group of young children ages 10 to 14. The previous counselor's had not done a good job managing their treatment in a very useful manner. I went into their trunk room, and found rat crap in their foot lockers, and under them as well. They had several bed wetters who frequently wet their beds, and nothing was really done about it.
The behaviors of the group was of course of the chain. In retrospect I should not find anything about what I went through very amusing, but its hard not to laugh. I had to quell riots on a regular basis. I was attacked by 10 year olds. This was pretty interesting considering I am 6 foot tall, weighing nearly 280 pounds, and an avid weight lifter. The kids frequently went beserk over the smallest issue.
None of this was a surprise to me, as I already knew that any new counselor faces resistance from the group. Nothing new, but what did shock me was the total sense of indifference from the administration. Worse was my on attitude. I came from a facility that worked hard to keep physical restraints from being a daily part of our lives. We all accepted that at some point it very well may happen. However, we all did our part to make sure they didn't happen needlessly.
At Three Springs I was involved in almost 200 full on physical restraints. No one seemed to be alarmed with this number, and seemed to accept it as part of business with my group. In the end I instituted several programs to reduce restraints, but received little support from the administration. Lets delve into my responsibilities as a counselor a bit more.
I let myself be seduced into a sick culture. I let my experience of one good program fall to the wayside, and became a part of the sick Three Springs Machine.
I regularly used intimidation to force compliance.
I regularly used physical holds when they were not needed.
I rarely used proper proceedures when conducting these physical holds.
In short I became an active participant of the Three Springs identity. I really should have quit the company at that point, and moved on in life. However, I though I could make a difference.
In the end my group of hell raisers settled down. We began to function, and have alot of fun. Almost everyone of the residents had some form of ADHD, and thrived when I put them all to work. I normally tried to make sure that they had useful work projects. Some people liked to give their groups these pointless make work things that as far as I could tell did no one any good. While, my group began to thrive with me, they still acted like maniacs with my cocounselors. No surprise, they simply did not have the established sense of respect, or fear of my cocounselors. I came back on many occasions to find my group in the midst of a major crisis involving pudding. My favorite crisis being a kid urinated on himself and laid in the middle of the trail for over two hours in his own pee.
Things like this became so common, no one seemed to be surprised anymore. Myself went from being idealistic, to a part of a jaded corporate cancer.
All this came to end. I was of all things fired. My adaption to the program was so complete that I did not notice the periodic change of it around myself. I was fired for giving out an inappropriate consequence. in short I had a kid do something silly to keep himself busy, and out of trouble till suppertime. As a result he aquired a minor abrasion, and I was terminated. I have to say under normal conditions I would have fired myself. However, from what I gathered afterwards, the periodic change, was just that periodic, and things went back to business as usual. Despite all of this my termination was the best thing that happened in my time there.
In my two years at Three Springs I went from a person who cared, to a person who cared in all the wrong ways.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 11:16:35 AM
Oh yeah, Izzy is a victim of the "industry". That explains why she fucked up ISAC's investigation of Majestic Ranch when she was running Kids in Captivity and called herself an "investigative journalist".
TSW - you can apologize all you want for yourself but please, let's not paint Izzy with the same brush. She is not a victim of anything but her own greed and ignorance. Not the teen help industry.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 28, 2007, 11:19:11 AM
I've been looking all over for that one, I will be sure to add it to my blog.
That post was probably my best post on fornits, thanks for running it down for me.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 11:19:15 AM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
More double speak from Isabelle.
Isabelle does not refer to programs.
Then this:
Only under extreme cases has Isabelle provided parents a number to call for program options and only once, that she is aware of, has a child been placed into a program under these circumstances.
Isabelle does not seem to realize it only takes ONE REFERRAL to disqualify herself as someone who "does not refer".
The fact that she ALSO referred the parent (Patty) to PURE as well as a transport company suggests to me that Isabelle has a very selective memory.
That's two referred parents (not one) that we know of, is it not?
:roll:
Maybe you don't get it. Isabelle does not refer children to programs. She has given parents resources, many of them, and not to put their kids in programs but to keep their kids out of programs. If you only knew how many kids are out because she helped you'd stop nagging on this issue.
She believes in keeping kids home wiht parents when at all possible and sometimes its' not. she is not a referral business, there is a huge difference between being a referral business and in helping people find althernative help for the kids.
You know what? Any normal person will get it. I don't know why you don't on this board. Radical is exactly the word. Anyone would understand the situation where there is no where else to turn but to find a safe place. If she'd been around when you went to a program maybe you wouldn't have ended up in an abusive one.
and her website is not all about wwasps.
Maybe she refers kids to people who refer kids to people who refer kids to programs?
::roflmao::
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 28, 2007, 11:22:16 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Oh yeah, Izzy is a victim of the "industry". That explains why she fucked up ISAC's investigation of Majestic Ranch when she was running Kids in Captivity and called herself an "investigative journalist".
TSW - you can apologize all you want for yourself but please, let's not paint Izzy with the same brush. She is not a victim of anything but her own greed and ignorance. Not the teen help industry.
Change this quote to
Quote
She is not a victim of anything but her own greed and ignorance.
to this
Quote
She is a victim of her own greed and ignorance.
And you will have now seen the point.
Well done ms. north of the rio grande.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 11:22:31 AM
"Maybe you don't get it. Isabelle does not refer children to programs. She has given parents resources, many of them, and not to put their kids in programs but to keep their kids out of programs. If you only knew how many kids are out because she helped you'd stop nagging on this issue.
She believes in keeping kids home with parents when at all possible and sometimes its' not. she is not a referral business, there is a huge difference between being a referral business and in helping people find althernative help for the kids.
You know what? Any normal person will get it. I don't know why you don't on this board. Radical is exactly the word. Anyone would understand the situation where there is no where else to turn but to find a safe place. If she'd been around when you went to a program maybe you wouldn't have ended up in an abusive one.
and her website is not all about wwasps."
Psy, Touching post. I relate to what your saying. Somewhere in all this there is mutual ground. What happened to you and others needs to stop. Kids need care and help, many times more than a parent can provide.
I'm glad you admit that Patti Atwood was a ploy. Read the correspondence between Patti & Isabelle. Patti was adamant about receiving "a referral" for a transport "out of Tranquitliy Bay". She was also adamant that her nephew could not go home. He must be place somewhere before the parents would agree to move him from TB.
Goodness never comes from deceit. Thanks for being accountable. Getting on the same page and dealing with the reality of all this is where the focus needs to go.
Keeping kids out of these places to begin with solves much of the problem. If there were no kids to send, these "treatment" centers would be out of business. This begins with mentoring and coaching kids that are "on the edge". Parents need to find another way to manage kids who seek trouble. "There are no bad kids, only kids that don't know how to problem solve", James Lehman, MSW.
thank you for your honesty.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 28, 2007, 11:35:25 AM
I don't think you know Psy like some of us do. But I'll let him answer for himself.
:lol:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 11:38:24 AM
Don't you people sleep? :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 11:38:38 AM
Guest, this is not a promotional website for Izzy's referral and coaching biz. If you persist, you will be required to make a payment to Fornits at 25 cents per word.
Get out your checkbook honey. This may get expensive!
The industry is a fraud. My advice is to sell your snakeoil on CAICA or PURE. You can not afford Fornits.
:wink:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 28, 2007, 11:40:07 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Guest, this is not a promotional website for Izzy's referral and coaching biz. If you persist, you will be required to make a payment to Fornits at 25 cents per word.
Get out your checkbook honey. This may get expensive!
The industry is a fraud. My advice is to sell your snakeoil on CAICA or PURE. You can not afford Fornits.
:wink:
Thank you guest that is going in my signature.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 28, 2007, 11:43:39 AM
damn it.. it was to long.
I'm gonna save that sucker for sure though.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 11:48:46 AM
Can we move on from the Izzy Was Duped bullshit excuse and just accept the fact that she refers kids to unregulated programs and unlicensed transport companies under the guise of "advocacy"?
It makes no difference if Patty was real or fake. What matters is Izzy does not have the qualfications to assist in the placement of children in any specialty school or program much less refer parents to a controversial outfit like PURE whose pre-screened programs include such entities as the now defunct Whitmore, Skyline Journey and Red Rock Ranch Academy.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 28, 2007, 11:51:48 AM
Quote from: ""Crash Test Dummy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Maybe you don't get it. Isabelle does not refer children to programs. She has given parents resources, many of them, and not to put their kids in programs but to keep their kids out of programs. If you only knew how many kids are out because she helped you'd stop nagging on this issue.
She believes in keeping kids home wiht parents when at all possible and sometimes its' not. she is not a referral business, there is a huge difference between being a referral business and in helping people find althernative help for the kids.
You know what? Any normal person will get it. I don't know why you don't on this board. Radical is exactly the word. Anyone would understand the situation where there is no where else to turn but to find a safe place. If she'd been around when you went to a program maybe you wouldn't have ended up in an abusive one.
and her website is not all about wwasps.
How in the hell is Izzy even qualified to present these "Alternatives"?
BTW Ms. North of the Border.. I'm still waiting on an answer. What qualifies Izzy to present any sort of Alternative?
Could you also enlighten us to the qualifications she holds and the associations she was granted them from for her "life coaching"?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 11:57:04 AM
Quote from: ""We know it's Isabelle""
If you only knew how many kids are out because she helped you'd stop nagging on this issue.
How many?
Quote
You know what? Any normal person will get it.
How many programs have you set foot in , in your entire life?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:02:25 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
No one is using me to further their cause. But, if you want to talk about people using people, I can share a story with you about someone calling me in May of last year claiming to be doing a report. I believe this person was using me to get information to use towards re-incarnating her website.
Nope, don't think so Cathy. Your daugther is not the only child who has died, there are plenty of others unfortunately. I don't think anyone would try to take your daughter's story for the purpose of re-incarnating their site. Now that doesn't even make sense. No offense, truly sorry you lost your daughter. But it's no reason to attack someone else. If you're talking about Isabelle I know she spent a lot of money to go be with you at the march in Sacramento because she cared. She doesn't need your story, she's got so many she can barely keep up with it all.
Time to move on.
"Time to move on" .. why are you advocating for kids if this is how you talk to their parents after they are killed?
Title: MAJESTIC RANCH REPORT
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:05:54 PM
Quote
Oh yeah, Izzy is a victim of the "industry". That explains why she fucked up ISAC's investigation of Majestic Ranch when she was running Kids in Captivity and called herself an "investigative journalist".
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:18:40 PM
Psy
Am I reading your post wrong? Did you actually work in the industry and get paid big bucks too? Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? You said the industry is so bad, and you were in a program, yet when you got out you went to work doing the same thing you now deplore.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:39:18 PM
Guest
Apparently the only one who needs her story is Fornits.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:45:17 PM
Quote
Edit: PS: the entire purpose of Patti Atwoods was to find out if Isabelle Zehnder was secretly referring to PURE and/or programs and/or escort services. It's called investigative reporting. Isabelle failed the honesty test as her actions show she violates her own disclaimer of neutrality when it suits her. She can scream "I WAS DUPED" all she wants, for all I care, it merely shows how upset she is at getting caught with her hand in the cookie jar.
Did you read the Blog? Did you read where Patti (you) insisted on a driver for the ADULTS to the facility and back to the airport because they didn't trust Jamaican drivers.
Did you read that the child would never be alone with the driver? S
o what would it matter who this was. Do you do a background check on every taxi driver you hire? This was not used to transport a child.
Patti asked for Sue's number. The kid couldn't come home so tell me what you would have done? Sue's investigating these schools so when parents have to have a place when they are dangerous and they have to be put in a facility. Some of these kids are a danger to themselves and or society. Who else is doing what it takes find safe places?
You say no schools, no programs, so you let them go into the jsutice system? Do you know what's happening t kids there? Is this the alternative you would suggest?
I think your time would be better spent helping parents and kids in a productive way instead of continuing to try to destroy the people who are actually making a positive difference in the lives of these kids.
Think about how far we've actually come because of these dedicated people and others who are helping them. You want names of other professionals and wonder why you dont' get them? It's because you so-called "advocates" are sending slanderous e-mails around to try to discredit them. How's that helping the cause?
And you might know that a lot of people are more loyal to them than you think and they're forwarding those e-mails to Isabelle. I know, I've seen them. So stop it and do something good and productive for a change.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:51:16 PM
Come on--give it a rest. Some person contacts Izzy and says "Give me name of your friend SUE who refers children to programs?"
Title: Re: MAJESTIC RANCH REPORT
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 12:57:03 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
Oh yeah, Izzy is a victim of the "industry". That explains why she fucked up ISAC's investigation of Majestic Ranch when she was running Kids in Captivity and called herself an "investigative journalist".
The ISAC report on Majestic is superior to this amatuer effort by Izzy.
Stop promoting your website and yourself, Izzy, it's downright embarassing that apparently, you have nothing better to do with your time.
Show come self-restraint, woman!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 28, 2007, 01:01:05 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Psy
Am I reading your post wrong? Did you actually work in the industry and get paid big bucks too? Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? You said the industry is so bad, and you were in a program, yet when you got out you went to work doing the same thing you now deplore.
Yes you read it wrong. He was held captive in a duckfarm, but never worked in one.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:01:49 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Come on--give it a rest. Some person contacts Izzy and says "Give me name of your friend SUE who refers children to programs?"
Exactly. They sometimes find Sue before Isabelle. Most of the time in fact. Sue tells them to call her, that's what she's done with many people. I know a mom who was about to put her daughter in another program after she took her out of a WWASPS facitliy. Sue told her she shoudl call Isabelle first and that little girl has been home since. There are hundreds of others like this.
What i find sad is you have no idea what Isabelle does. You have listened to what someone has told you. She has coached so many parents and kids to keep them home and she never charged the families a dime. I knwo she worked with one family for five months to help them to keep a girl out of programs.
So you give it up. Figure it out that you have been wrong. Setting up an advocate like someone did with Patti Atwoods was really underhanded and horrible. It's one thing to do that with a program you think is abusive but come one. Patti asked leading questions that gave Isabelle no other options.
It was Patti who wanted the name of the transport company another mother had used only to transport adults back and forth from the airport to the proram. Sure the kid would have been in the car coming back but he was flying home with his family. Not with the transport. Did you read? Who cares who the guy was? Good point was do you do a background check on taxi drivers? That's all this guy was to them.
And it was Patti who insisted she have the name of programs for her sister or else the kid might have stayed where he was in Jamaica. Worse they talked about putting him into antoher program Patti was afraid of because they were part of the lawsuit.
So get the story straight.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on June 28, 2007, 01:04:25 PM
Q. Have Izzy & Sue ever licked each other?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:18:30 PM
If anyone can keep a child from going into or back into any program, I say Hooray! All the rest of this crap is amature hour.
I'd hate to be an advocate in this day and age. You have people praising you on one hand for the good work you're doing, and someone else comes along and deviously tries to discredit you under false pretences. Says a lot about a person/entity. Maybe more therapy is in order.
Psy, who stands to gain by this out and out witch hunt?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:20:52 PM
Yes. I always ask my cab driver for their resume. Don't you? I thought everyone did.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:28:38 PM
The only thing I see here is that Isabelle felt bad for this so-called parent, and went beyond the realm of what she normally would do because the parent professed to be so desperate, and tugged at Isabelle's heartstrings. That's vicious. And I don't believe it was to tie anyone to anyone, I think it was done to destroy Isabelle to better themselves.
So Patti, what's the name of your advocacy agency? How much money do you stand to gain? Who are you referring? Who have you referred parents to? Come out with it, or are you planning on starting a company and selling yourself as the "better advocate"?
Somthing does smell here, and it's Patti. Whose using Psy, whose using, yada yada yada
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:31:28 PM
Quote
who stands to gain by this out and out witch hunt?
Who stands to gain from the witch hunt done by those blogs about Joyce and Carey, and others who have dared to speak out????
Then come here and act like it is sooo terrible to ask questions about organizations who claim to be protecting children, but are collecting fees for professional services without any qualifications. Attacking parents who are speaking out, and true advocates.
On top of that attacking victims of programs....How professional is that????
Then threaten lawsuits ect. I just don't get it.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:31:30 PM
The paranoia runs high.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:43:28 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The only thing I see here is that Isabelle felt bad for this so-called parent, and went beyond the realm of what she normally would do because the parent professed to be so desperate, and tugged at Isabelle's heartstrings. That's vicious. And I don't believe it was to tie anyone to anyone, I think it was done to destroy Isabelle to better themselves.
So Patti, what's the name of your advocacy agency? How much money do you stand to gain? Who are you referring? Who have you referred parents to? Come out with it, or are you planning on starting a company and selling yourself as the "better advocate"?
Somthing does smell here, and it's Patti. Whose using Psy, whose using, yada yada yada
Poor Izzy - maybe she can find a job advocating for disgraced child-referrers and former program owners?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:51:29 PM
Isn't Izzy ALREADY ADVOCATING FOR FORMER PROGRAM OWNERS? Doesn't that appear to be the purpose for the Whitmore Blogs? Izzy sure seems to be advocating for Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks in these Whitmore Blogs. Izzy certainly doesn't tell a "balanced" story in these blogs, does she? There's no mention of Mark Sudweeks' felony conviction of animal abuse in Canada. There's no mention of the Sudweeks being evicted from Mexico for runnng a school without a license. Then, Izzy got many facts incorrect about Cheryl Sudweeks' plea bargain in the criminal case at Whitmore.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 01:52:49 PM
WOW! Apparently, PattyAtwoods is Isabelle (CAICA) has referred. In her blog she admits helping to get another child placed in an unregulated program, presumably with the assistance of PURE.
Anybody know the name of that program?
Thanks!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:01:06 PM
Quote from: ""Just thinking""
Quote
who stands to gain by this out and out witch hunt?
Who stands to gain from the witch hunt done by those blogs about Joyce and Carey, and others who have dared to speak out????
Then come here and act like it is sooo terrible to ask questions about organizations who claim to be protecting children, but are collecting fees for professional services without any qualifications. Attacking parents who are speaking out, and true advocates.
On top of that attacking victims of programs....How professional is that????
Then threaten lawsuits ect. I just don't get it.
Yeah, really sick, IMO. Defending WWASPS parents and kids who make allegations of abuse on one hand, and on the other, claiming parents and kids who make allegations of abuse against Scheffie's referred program Whitmore, have some kind of "vendetta".
Izzy have you no integrity whatsoever? You are defending people who have been accused and convicted of animal abuse and who plead no contest to criminal charges of child hazing.
And btw, the question has been asked several times now and still not answered.
What program did you refer that kid too that you blogged about?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 02:24:10 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Q. Have Izzy & Sue ever licked each other?
What a sick thing to say. Just proves the mentality of some of the people who post here.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on June 28, 2007, 02:57:37 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Q. Have Izzy & Sue ever licked each other?
What a sick thing to say. Just proves the mentality of some of the people who post here.
Blah, blah, blah. Maybe you're a little too haughty. If you've seen the TB documentary, you realize some survivors of programs swear a lot and have a black sense of humor.
This is turning into the New Who Review. I think it's a distraction to get people to not focus on the upcoming congressional hearing. Screw arguing with these inconsequential mediocrities, let's put them out of business.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 28, 2007, 05:26:31 PM
double post
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 28, 2007, 05:40:15 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Psy
Am I reading your post wrong? Did you actually work in the industry and get paid big bucks too? Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? You said the industry is so bad, and you were in a program, yet when you got out you went to work doing the same thing you now deplore.
I have NEVER worked in the industy. If ever I did change sides, i give ANYBODY full permission to put a bullet in my head.
Here Is what I wrote:
http://pattiatwoods.blogspot.com/[/url] )
My name is Michael Crawford. I do live in Virginia, as Isabelle stated. I did go to Benchmark and I was hurt there. Some parents don't seem to realize that WWASP does not own a monopoly on abuse in, or out of this country. After leaving Benchmark in 2002, I began to speak out against the place online, specifically, on Tom Croke's website, "Bridge to Understanding Online". Sue Scheff found my posting, contacted me, and invited me to Trekkers. As soon as she found out Benchmark was not WWASP, she totally lost interest in my story, or anything I had to say. I was of no _use_ to her. Soon afterwards, it became clear that Sue was not interested in shutting down all abusive programs... just her competition, WWASP. Had she not tried to defraud the referral system at WWASP, i theorize she would probably still be working for them. Sue Scheff does NOT care about the kids, and neither does her marketing department, Isabelle Zehnder's CAICA. They care about making money.
I am really "that radical", I believe that all programs should be shut down. Anybody who has actually done enough research into this industry would probably come to a similar conclusion. There comes a point where an entire industry is so thoroughly corrupt that, even though there might be one or two safe programs, the overall risk is far too high. Saying "shutting down the entire industry is impossible" is like saying "abolishing slavery entirely is impossible". Regardless of how difficult it may my, it DOES NOT MATTER. Abuse, regardless of scope, is still wrong.
Unlike Sue Scheff, I do not make a single penny of my time I spend trying to fight this industry by my actions on and offline, Arguably, I could have easily "moved on" or "got over it" but that would mean ignoring the plight of people who, today, are still suffering what I went through (and far worse). Arguably, I have lost money by fighting this battle, because I could easily be getting paid large sums of money by working in IT full time (as I did, for a while after Benchmark). There are times when I have sacrificed grades in school, or even missed classes to help fight this industry. There is no question that I am obsessed. There is a modern day holocaust going on in this country right now, and it's not just WWASP. I question the ethics of anybody who isn't appalled by what is going on this very moment under the guise of "treatment".
Unlike Isabelle Zehnder, I don't claim to be an advocate. I'm just a survivor who speaks out about his experiences, and takes the fight to those who participate directly or indirectly in abuse. Educational consultants who refer to programs participate in abuse. Like Catherine Sutton said, "Look up the word negligent". Sue Scheff, by her own admission under oath, claimed to be an Educational Consultant, and admitted to functioning in that role for all intensive purposes.** She admitted to taking money in return for referrals to programs she had not directly investigated.** Isabelle Zehnder, who claims to be an advocate, not only refers to Sue Scheff, but also To Sunrise Adolescent Transport, who actively work with WWASP (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=264830#264830). Like Catherine Sutton said, "Look up the word negligent". In my opinion, it more than crosses the line into criminal negligence, but that is up for a court to decide.
As far as the rest of Isabelle's allegations against me and others... I'm not going to even justify much of that with a response. I did not threaten her via Email, though in true hypocritical fashion, that is exactly what she did to me. (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=264836#264836) If there is anything anybody is curious about regarding her allegations against me, please, feel free to ask me publicly, and I will answer.
* see Patti emails ** see WWASP vs. PURE transcript
Edit: PS: the entire purpose of Patti Atwoods was to find out if Isabelle Zehnder was secretly referring to PURE and/or programs and/or escort services. It's called investigative reporting. Isabelle failed the honesty test as her actions show she violates her own disclaimer of neutrality when it suits her. She can scream "I WAS DUPED" all she wants, for all I care, it merely shows how upset she is at getting caught with her hand in the cookie jar.
Edit2: I noticed Isabelle left some things out when she posted her blog. Let's set the record straight once again. Here is the full correspondence between Patti, Sue, and Isabelle:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 08:05:40 PM
Psy the correspondence you posted clears up things. Izzy seems to have been VERY selective in the correspondence she chose to include in her PATTI BLOG.
Patti made contact with Sandy on MySpace on May 3rd. In Izzy's email to Sandy on May 8th Izzy informs Sandy that she has sent an email to PATTI giving Patti the phone number and email address that PATTI can call for a "safer program." PATTI is told in this email that she can speak to SUE OR MARIE. The email provided is: www.helpyourteen.com (http://www.helpyourteen.com) The phone number is: 1-800-730-7260
One can assume PATTI was to speak to Sue Scheff or Marie Peart; since this contact information is for PURE.
Izzy's raving that PATTI "wasted 3 weeks of precious time....." seems a bit silly. Izzy wasted no time in referring PATTI to Sue Scheff/PURE. In fact--Izzy provided this referral information BEFORE there was any direct email or phone contact between Izzy and PATTI.
In PATTI's email to Sandy on May 7th: Pattis was asking for "alternatives" to Tranquility Bay. Patti stated she wanted her nephew to "come home...to have proper mental health treatment and to get back into school." Patti does not mention PROGRAMS.
Sandy's reply: Patti is to contact Isabelle; and she says if Patti is open to another PROGRAM, that Isabelle can recommend legitimate programs. This correspondence seems to make it CLEAR Izzy was IMMEDIATELY referring PATTI to Sue Scheff/PURE; and who was pushing PROGRAMS.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 28, 2007, 08:16:07 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Psy the correspondence you posted clears up things. Izzy seems to have been VERY selective in the correspondence she chose to include in her PATTI BLOG.
Why do you think I didn't release the whole thing at the beginning. It's so much more fun if they lie about it first. :rofl:
BTW: It was Isabelle who initially suggested the escorts on the phone. NOT Patti. It was Patti who suggested the family come along.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2007, 11:28:09 PM
No one is using me to further their cause. But, if you want to talk about people using people, I can share a story with you about someone calling me in May of last year claiming to be doing a report. I believe this person was using me to get information to use towards re-incarnating her website.
Nope, don't think so Cathy. Your daugther is not the only child who has died, there are plenty of others unfortunately. I don't think anyone would try to take your daughter's story for the purpose of re-incarnating their site. Now that doesn't even make sense. No offense, truly sorry you lost your daughter. But it's no reason to attack someone else. If you're talking about Isabelle I know she spent a lot of money to go be with you at the march in Sacramento because she cared. She doesn't need your story, she's got so many she can barely keep up with it all. Time to move on.
I know ALL too well that my daughter is not the only child who died. Who's fault is that?
I mentioned my annual trip to the Capitol to Isabelle in one of our lenghtly conversations. Isabelle invited herself. I didn't ask her to spend a lot of money. It was my understanding that she was going to be in the area anyway with her son who was moving in with his brother. At one point Isabelle was afraid to attend the Capitol for fear that someone would kill her. I didn't make her attend this event. It was her choice to further her cause.
I don't feel I am attacking anyone. I am, in my opinion, recovering from a bad experience. I don't understand how Isabelle could think that I would be OK with her empathy for those who are referring parents into this "industry." I also don't understand how a Child Advocate could minimize the abuses of kids in NON WWASP PROGRAMS, while stating that the abuses in OTHER programs were not as bad. I made a judgement call as I gave Isabelle the opportunity to show me otherwise. This was not something she cared to do. I feel that I have the right to associate with whom I feel has the same goals I do.
Most importantly, I don't understand how you could think it would be OK with me to work with Isabelle after learning that the person she chose to team up with not only knows Gayle DeGraff, AKA, Gayle Palmer, but works with her. According to the WWASP vs PURE transcripts, Gayle DeGraff, AKA, Gayle Palmer, checks out programs for Sue Scheff, PURE. If this were the ONLY reason I broke all ties with Isabelle, I feel that I made the right decision. I want nothing to do with Gayle DeGraff, AKA, Gayle Palmer, anyone who affiliates with, or has empathy for her. I learned the hardest lesson out there that this woman is wreckless and cares more about money than the health and safety of children.
I will be happy to move on when this "industry" is held accountable for the neglect, abuse, molestation and death of the many children who have suffered at their negligent hands.
This is a war of words that could go on and on................. I shall stick to my constitutional rights and say, "I have the God given right to associate with whomever I choose." I made a mistake that caused me grief. I'm not going to threaten to sue anyone. I just relived a hard lesson. Next time someone calls me claiming to be working on a report, I will do my homework first.
Sincerely, Michelle Sutton Memorial Fund, Inc. Catherine Sutton
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 12:21:48 AM
Izzy doesn't seem to have the Patti blog listed on her blog page. Is Izzy now BLOGGING for fornits readers? Aren't we special?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 12:35:07 AM
IMO, this story about some parent giving Izzy the phone number to Midwest Academy "by mistake" doesn't pass the smell test.
Ditto the story about the transport company being used three times by some parent.
In reading this thread - it sounds like it was Sue Scheff who Izzy told Patty had used this transport company three times, is that correct?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 12:43:41 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
IMO, this story about some parent giving Izzy the phone number to Midwest Academy "by mistake" doesn't pass the smell test.
Ditto the story about the transport company being used three times by some parent.
In reading this thread - it sounds like it was Sue Scheff who Izzy told Patty had used this transport company three times, is that correct?
That is absolutely correct. Izzy Did tell Patti that on the phone. It was not V, or Guest1 who told Izzy about Sunrise. And that is according to Izzy herself.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 29, 2007, 02:01:46 AM
I'm glad you decided to take on this one Psy. If it was me I would have tied the emails to a burning arrow and shot it through the front door of Izzy's house. I haven't the patience for this sort of hell raising.
I'm hoping someone culls through this thread for a selection of highlights and makes one big posting showing a progressive run down of the whole affair, which I doubt is over, as it plays out.
Title: CAICA SETS THE RECORD STRAIGHT
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 03:18:10 AM
CAICA SETS THE RECORD STRAIGHT
WHO IS PATTI ATWOOD?
June 27, 2007 Written by: Editorial Board Coalition Against Institutionalized Child Abuse (CAICA)
There seems to be some question as to who Patti Atwoods is and why it even matters. Patti Atwoods does not exist. She was made up by a deceitful woman - a liar and a fraud - someone claiming to be her in an effort to harm Isabelle Zehnder – a Child and Family Advocate - the Founder and President of the Coalition Against Institutionalized Child Abuse (CAICA). Patti called from San Antonio, Texas - 210-251-2902.
Patti found Isabelle's friend, Sandy, on MySpace and contacted her. Patti lied to Sandy and to Isabelle. This selfish caller took up over three weeks of precious time that could have been used to help other families. She claimed she wanted to remove her nephew from what she believed was an abusive program.
Why?
It now appears the motive was to try to discredit Isabelle who has devoted the past four years to helping families whose children were abused in teen programs and to provide a service to the public by creating what others are calling the most comprehensive website on the topic of institutionalized child abuse.
Isabelle is not radical - she does not believe all programs should be shut down. What Isabelle is trying to accomplish is bringing awareness to the fact that children and teens are being abused in programs and to find a way to not only stop the abuse but to make those who abuse children accountable for their actions. As a result, the people who are radical, who do believe all programs should be shut down, continue to harass and defame both Isabelle and her friend, Sue Scheff. Sue has devoted eight years to helping these families.
Who are these people and what drives them?
We have seen a pattern that victims of abuse in these programs seem to despise anyone and anything that is not in line with their ways of thinking. Perhaps this is a result of the years of abuse they themselves endured. Many were mistreated in teen programs and they are very angry, understandably. Some are people with their own hidden agendas.
The sad thing is that victims are misdirecting their anger. The truth of the matter is there are kids who need help that their parents and local therapists can't provide. The anger should be directed at those who abuse children. And rather than stay angry it would be more useful to the cause if everyone worked to find positive solutions and to try to get this industry regulated so that kids do not have to continue to endure abuse behind closed doors. It is daunting – there is a great deal of work to be done to accomplish this. But Isabelle and those at CAICA believe it is a cause worth defending.
Their mission?
To attempt to discredit Isabelle by trying to prove she was profiting from parents four ways – referral fees from teen transport companies, referral fees from programs, her new company, Positive Family Solutions, and donations for CAICA.
Isabelle does not refer to programs. Only under extreme cases has Isabelle provided parents a number to call for program options and only once, that she is aware of, has a child been placed into a program under these circumstances. Isabelle did not charge a referral fee and received no money for referring this child.
Isabelle does not refer families to transport companies for the sake of transporting children to programs. In fact, except under extreme circumstances, Isabelle is opposed to the use of teen transports to transport children and teens to programs.
In February Isabelle was contacted by a mother who wanted to remove her son from an abusive facility in Jamaica. The mother hired Sunrise Transport to bring him back to the states.
After weeks of working with Patti Isabelle received a call from her inquiring how other parents had removed their children from this facility. When Isabelle told Patti this mother had used a transport company Patti asked if Isabelle could get her the number.
Patti said the family would be flying to Jamaica the following day. Isabelle, confused, asked why they would want to hire the transport company when they were flying to Jamaica to pick up her nephew. Patti explained the family did not trust Jamaican drivers and wanted someone from the US.
Isabelle called the mother and asked for the transport company’s phone number. The mother gave Isabelle three numbers and Isabelle called and left the numbers on Patti’s voice-mail. Patti had also asked Isabelle to call the transport company to find out if they would be able to do this in such short notice, which she did.
When Isabelle dialed the first number someone from Midwest Academy answered the phone. Isabelle indicated she had the wrong number and called the other numbers. When Isabelle realized the error, she immediately called Patti and left a voice-mail message letting her know the first number was incorrect and that she should not call it.
There was no reason for Isabelle to research Sunrise Transport – they were being used as a glorified Taxi service to drive the adults to and from the facility. Not to transport a child.
Isabelle recently left her legal career to start her coaching company, Positive Family Solutions because she, like others, has to make a living. Prior to that, she has coached parents and kids for years free of charge.
Patti offered to donate to CAICA. Isabelle was happy because she was trying to raise funds for a young man who had been a victim of abuse in a program. He needed money to get his feet off the ground and for medical care. Isabelle was also trying to raise money for families who could not afford legal services.
“Patti Atwoods” wasted three weeks of precious time that could have been used to help others. She continues to do everything in her power to discredit Isabelle. We believe she has aligned with former program victims. Isabelle continues to receive threatening e-mails from a young man in Virginia who claims he was abused at Benchmark. He does not know Isabelle, he has never spoken with her, and he has no idea the work she has done to help families.
He is sending Isabelle and Sue threatening e-mails which are being taken seriously and that have been forwarded to the proper authorities.
There is a fine line between free speech and Internet Slander and Defamation. That line has been crossed. _______________________________________________
Below are e-mails between Sandy, Isabelle, and Patti
CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN PATTI, SANDY, AND ISABELLE PHONE NUMBER: 210-251-2902 210 TX -6 S Texas: San Antonio (see also splits 830, 956)
FROM PATTI TO ISABELLE May 9, 2007 6:53 AM
Hello Isabelle,
Thank you for writing.
Sandy has been so great in helping me., and I appreciate her support and time.
My sister enrolled her son, Jason, at Tranquility Bay in January. This is the first special school he has attended. She chose an out-of-country school because of he has run away before. Besides Jason's behavioral problems, there is much conflict at home, especially between Jason and my sister's current husband.
My sister planned to use Jason's college fund to pay for TB. I am the executer of Jason's college fund and other funds. I have not approved payment of TB, because the inadequate educational benefits; and what appears to be a lack of psychological counseling.
Sandy asked many questions - and I hope she shared the information with you. I will try to remember the important ones: Jason's biological father is not in the picture. I don't know how my sister has been paying TB these past months; or what type of contractual agreements she has signed with this organization.
I'm preparing to attend a conference next week, and need to get things nailed down. I'm a CPA, and I am used to working "a plan." Now, I am confused, and worried about my nephew.
I need a "plan" to present to my sister, to convince her to remove Jason from TB immediately. I don't believe Jason can live back at home, due to the ongoing conflicts, and his own issues.
If a summer program can be arranged, to be followed by a boarding school in the fall; I believe I can convince my sister to follow this "plan," especially if I agree to release funds to pay the expenses.
I need assistance in finding the proper summer program and school for Jason.[Emphasis added] The school must have academic standards, as well as provide counseling for Jason.
If this does not work--then I will speak with my attorney. I have no "custodial rights," and really do not know my legal rights to intervene in Jason's release from TB.
My assistant, Noreen has been helping me research these issues. She confided to me that her brother is having serious problems with his teenage daughter, age 15. They live in Flagstaff, AZ. This girl has been skipping school, using "drugs" (I don't know what kind), ignoring curfews and rules, constantly fighting with her mother, and running around with an older boy they don't approve of. Recently the mother found birth control pills in her purse.
There parents have been talking to an Educational Consultant, and have been told about a school in Utah. Noreen doesn't know the name of the school, but now, she wants to be sure it's not one of these wwassp schools.
I won't make any decisions until the end of school. But, Noreen is trying to help them find a good summer program [Emphasis added], and go from there.
Isabelle, I am not familiar with parent-teen-coaching.
But, I think this would be beneficial for Jason and his mom, if he was away from TB.
Now, he is only allowed letter-writing communications.
I hope I answered the questions you needed. Thank you for your concerns.
Patty responded. She sounds legit, but it's hard to say. Please read her e-mail (below) and see if there are any red flags or inconsistencies that jump out at you. I will wait to hear from you before I respond to her.
The only thing she has going for her is that she holds the $$ - if nothing else this child will have money when he comes home (if he ends up staying in TB - which of course I hope he doesn't).
I need to explain more about coaching and how it has helped keep families together. [Emphasis added] It would be nice if she could convince her sister to try that. One problem is the new husband - very common! These new husbands often have no patience for the wife's teen. I've seen this over and over.
And the girl who is going out, etc., she sounds like a teen doing teen things. [Emphasis added] It sounds to me that she and her mom could be helped with coaching rather than sending this child away. I'd have to know more and be sure the child is not suicidal, etc.
Thanks for keeping me in the loop.
Isabelle
_______________________________________________
FROM ISABELLE TO PATTI Date: May 9, 2007 7:47 PM
Thanks for the info, it helps me understand where things are at.
Please either provide me with your phone number and some times I can call you or give me a call at 360-369-6547 or 360-903-3951.
I have been working extended hours in order to meet various deadlines for clients; and to prepare for the NCCPAP Spring Conference I will be attending next week.
Are you available to talk by phone in the evenings? This would be better for me, since I am constantly interrupted during the day with client calls at work.
I may return home on Thursday afternoon (May 17th); rather than attend Friday's sessions at the conference. II will see how things go at the office; and how things are progressing with these family issues.
Noreen's brother is looking at a wilderness type program for his daughter, but he has not signed any papers, yet.
Noreen has convinced him to look at another option she researched, because she thinks this would be much better for her niece. I't called equine-assisted-therapy, and Noreen is very excited about what she has researched so far. Apparently her niece is an accomplished rider, owns a horse and competes in rodeo type events.
Do you know anything about this type of therapy; or do you know of any programs that include "equine therapy" that may be appropriate for a 15 year old girl?
My sister did not hear from Jason this week; but at times his correspondence is sporadic, which concerns me, even if it does not seem to worry her. But then, I have been reading a lot about TB; so my apprehension continues to grow.
Do you know why this Tranquility Bay Documentary film has not been released in the United States? I read the reviews of this film, and I will share this information with my sister.
I look forward to discussing options for Jason when I can talk to you by phone. Noreen found a few schools/programs during her research that sound promising for Jason.
Again, I hope to have some type educational plan intact before I confront my sister, and push her to remove Jason from TB immediately. I'm sure that she will not consider removing Jason from TB, without some plan for his enrollment in a summer and fall program. [Emphasis added]
Hopefully you can provide the names of acceptable schools; and then I can only hope that these schools will have an opening on such short notice.
Perhaps you can recommend something to help Noreen, too. Noreen says she is afraid her brother is acting too quickly, and needs to take the time to research more thoroughly.
I look forward to hearing what options may be available.
And here is the e-mail that I wrote in response to Patti's very specific requests - the name and number of the transport company used by another parent to transport the adults to and from the airport to the facility, NOT TO TRANSPORT A CHILD AND THIS WAS TO BRING A CHILD HOME - Sue's contact information so her sister could have options - my coaching website - and a way to donate to CAICA:
We just got off the phone so you know the person to contact is James. His direct number is 435-229-9378. The main number at Sunrise Adolescent Transport is 435-673-3202.
The person to contact re the programs is Sue at 954-349-7260. She is aware of the situation so just let her know I sent you to her. I normally don't give out her direct, home phone number but she said OK. She has over 7 years experience helping families so I feel confident she'll steer us in the right direction, if we need to go that direction.
Here's a link to my website regarding coaching in case you want to go that route: www.positivefamilysolutions.com (http://www.positivefamilysolutions.com). Please let the family know I am available to talk with Jason soon after they pick him up from TB. Often it is beneficial for me to talk to the child to let them know what is happening and why. The kids trust me once they know who I am and what I do.
If you would like to help CAICA by making a donation, please go to www.caica.org (http://www.caica.org) and click on the Visa/MasterCard Donate button. We'd really appreciate it!
Talk to you soon, Isabelle
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 03:40:21 AM
Watch it izzy. Flooding the forum can get you banned. Can a moderator delete one of those?
Typical Isabelle Zehnder. Now that she has been so outed, so publicly humiliated, attacked from every side... What does she do now? Pay attention folks: she floods the forum with re-posts of her blog in an attempt to make the thread unreadable.
You just don't get it Izzy. Pretending to be an advocate and preying on survivors for your own selfish interests was bound to upset somebody sometime. I am not the first (after all, you have an entire forum dedicated to the exploits of you, and your friend, Sue).
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on June 29, 2007, 06:28:42 AM
Unbelievable gall this bitch has!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 07:03:26 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Nope, don't think so Cathy. Your daugther is not the only child who has died, there are plenty of others unfortunately. I don't think anyone would try to take your daughter's story for the purpose of re-incarnating their site. Now that doesn't even make sense. No offense, truly sorry you lost your daughter. But it's no reason to attack someone else. If you're talking about Isabelle I know she spent a lot of money to go be with you at the march in Sacramento because she cared. She doesn't need your story, she's got so many she can barely keep up with it all. Time to move on.
I know ALL too well that my daughter is not the only child who died. Who's fault is that?
I am glad Catherine Sutton did not move on. it is because of people like you that there is still so much death and pain. I hope doing what she does brings some meaning. And nobody cares who you accuse of being a "swinger". It is astonishing that you criticize people for libel but spread cowardly rumors and put peoples private phone numbers up on a web site. Go to hell you conniving bitch :flame: :flame:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 08:58:19 AM
Izzy's Disclaimer states she does not refer to programs? Yet her MySpace friend Sandy sends her emails referring her to Patti who contacted her on MySpace--and what does Izzy do IMMEDIATELY? Izzy sends off an email to Patti--- REFERRING PATTI to PURE!!!!!!!
Izzy has no medical or psychoogical qualifications to recommend programs or treatment for a child in the first place. Yet, Izzy takes the word of some MY SPACE contact to refer to PURE? What the hell? Is MySpace Sandy iin this kids-for-sell-money-loop-referral deal ?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 09:08:12 AM
Instead of re-posting this distasteful, lie-filled Patti blog on fornits over-and-over; why doesn't Izzy just slap it up over on CA-CA ? oops, forgot. Guess few people read that website. Suppose that's why Izzy hangs out here on Fornits all the time, huh?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 09:20:23 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Izzy has no medical or psychoogical qualifications[/b]?
And neither does Sue Scheff. She admitted that under oath at the WWASP vs. PURE trial.
Here... let me explain what "may" be going on, hypothetically: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=22098 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=22098)
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 11:40:58 AM
::argue:: It seems to me that no matter how much the argument is made about the facts, that none on this board is going to believe anything you say in your defense, because of the unprofessional way, the partys in question have showed their true colors, on various blogs. The people on this forum have been used and abused and they do not believe or trust anyone, after being scammed before, and so heartless by the Industry. Trust is earned, and although most of us have an open mind; the fact is a person was directed to Pure and escort service. It has already been established that Pure is referring parents to programs, and earning a fee, from the programs, as Pure/Wwasp transcripts. The fact you are attacking Mrs. Sutton is a sure sign of what kind of folks you are. Just go away.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 29, 2007, 12:31:38 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
::argue:: It seems to me that no matter how much the argument is made about the facts, that none on this board is going to believe anything you say in your defense, because of the unprofessional way, the partys in question have showed their true colors, on various blogs. The people on this forum have been used and abused and they do not believe or trust anyone, after being scammed before, and so heartless by the Industry. Trust is earned, and although most of us have an open mind; the fact is a person was directed to Pure and escort service. It has already been established that Pure is referring parents to programs, and earning a fee, from the programs, as Pure/Wwasp transcripts. The fact you are attacking Mrs. Sutton is a sure sign of what kind of folks you are. Just go away.
WTF? They attacked Cathy Sutton? I haven't been following this thread that closely to even know she was posting. I don't doubt for a second this pack of jackals would stoop that low either. Cathy Suttion is an icon in this racket and one of the few who has been given that status with her own flesh and blood.
Cathy Sutton's work has at times inspired me to keep at it when I've gotten tired of all of it.
Hey Cathy don't let the arsewarts get you down. I still, and from the looks of it most of the anons, believe that you are one hell of a person for all that you have done and accomplished.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 01:40:20 PM
Crash Test
Don't you think that suggesting someone shoot burning arrows through someone's home shows a perpencity towards violence?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 01:48:57 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Crash Test
Don't you think that suggesting someone shoot burning arrows through someone's home shows a perpencity towards violence?
Oh my! You're right. BAD TSW! You barbarian you!
Oh.. It's just so horrible. It's almost as bad as what happened to kids on a daily basis at Whitmore.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 29, 2007, 01:49:13 PM
No, but their definitely is a case to be made for being a lousy shot. I mean you would really have to suck to miss Izzy's fat ass.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 02:00:33 PM
All I am saying is that you guys are supposedly against violence to chidren, even animals as someone mentioned in a previous post, and then you turn around and suggest violence. Just taking notice.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 02:04:37 PM
FYHELLO EVERYONE THE DAY HAS COME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I HAVE THE LETTER FROM JAY KAY HIMSELF.. ITS ALL IN TExt..
"FIRST OFF CREDIT TO Neo. THe man in CyberSPace.."
Dear Parents/Guardians and Friends,
In order to alleviate any more rumors we felt it was time to notify everyone what is happening with Tranquility Bay. We have had a great 10 years and our staff has been tremendous. We could not have accomplished anything without your support and dedication.
Financially TB is at a time when change has become necessary. With this in mind we have thought long and hard about our options. The best solution we have come up with is to basically transplant our Program to Gulf Coast Academy in Mississippi. I have personally visited the facility and find it to be well suited for our kids.
Tranquility Bay will continue to deal with Zero Tolerance kids from other programs. As you know the new passport requirements have held up many, many enrollments. We are confident over the next few months that parents will get their children passports.
We would ask you to contact Gulf Coast Academy as soon as possible and arrange for a transfer of your child. The contact information will be sent to you tomorrow by your Family Rep. The BBS makes it difficult to put in phone numbers as well as web addresses.
I will certainly be involved with the Gulf Coast Academy school to make sure the transition is as smooth as possible. In addition to this Dr. Chappuis has agreed to assist in a smooth transition. We are hopeful that some of our staff will be able to work at the school as well. Clearly this will assist everyone.
We do not see this holding any students back, in fact, they may be able to move a little quicker.
Again, we appreciate your support and look forward to a smooth transition in this new venture. Remember, change is a good thing.
Thanks and Love,
Jay to you in private.
YA YOU HAVE IT LADIES N GENTLEMAN!
EMAIL ME FOR MY INFO?
ITS FINAL!I
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 02:06:29 PM
FYI
Time to start keeping an eye on Mississippi, as well as TB.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 02:12:47 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
All I am saying is that you guys are supposedly against violence to chidren, even animals as someone mentioned in a previous post, and then you turn around and suggest violence. Just taking notice.
You are a whore.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 02:13:08 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
All I am saying is that you guys are supposedly against violence to chidren, even animals as someone mentioned in a previous post, and then you turn around and suggest violence. Just taking notice.
An eye for an eye, cunt lips! :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 29, 2007, 02:14:42 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
All I am saying is that you guys are supposedly against violence to chidren, even animals as someone mentioned in a previous post, and then you turn around and suggest violence. Just taking notice.
I'm not against violence towards animals. I'm an avid hunter. Hence my assertion this represents a plausible arguement for the hunting of the Izzy-She-Boar. Afterall she is a fucking revolting pig.
hey someone post up the whitmore disclaimer for me. It applies to the above post.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 02:17:22 PM
Oink
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 02:20:05 PM
What right do you have to call me those names. I just came here to send you the TB post, saw the arrow thing, and commented on it. No need for name calling, considering I am none of those things, nor I have I ever been called that. I am absolutely offended. That was uncalled for.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 02:22:13 PM
A staff, child-advocate and survivor all walk into the bar.
The staff sits down, bartender asks, "what'll ya have?"
Nothing I'm just waiting.
Child advocate walks in and pulls a stool up next to the staff.
"How's it going" the advocate asks the staff.
"Pretty well" the staff says.
The bartender walks up and asks again if they wanted anything to drink.
They both look back at him and shake their heads no.
The bartender, seeing their gloomy faces, offers them the house special, free iced apple juice on this hot summer day.
They talked, and went through almost two pitchers of apple juice.
After an hour the staff asked the child-advocate if they thought the survivor was going to show up.
The bartender walked up to them and said, I've been here the whole time, out back pissing in pitchers.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 02:23:03 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
What right do you have to call me those names. I just came here to send you the TB post, saw the arrow thing, and commented on it. No need for name calling, considering I am none of those things, nor I have I ever been called that. I am absolutely offended. That was uncalled for.
:cry2: Shut your filthy hole, shit-eater!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 02:24:43 PM
I am offended. Please stop. You are hurting me.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 02:25:58 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
What right do you have to call me those names. I just came here to send you the TB post, saw the arrow thing, and commented on it. No need for name calling, considering I am none of those things, nor I have I ever been called that. I am absolutely offended. That was uncalled for.
distractions. let's keep to the topic please. there are other threads that could be posted on, and it has been posted on this thread already.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 02:27:42 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I am offended. Please stop. You are hurting me.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 29, 2007, 02:29:29 PM
Yeah did they ever answer my questions about 20 pages back or so?
What qualifies Izzy to make suggestions to alternatives?
Where is the source of her qualifications for her life coaching?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 02:29:41 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The bartender walked up to them and said, I've been here the whole time, out back pissing in pitchers.
LOL
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 02:30:11 PM
Is this how you treat people who come here to help you. I thought you'd be interested/happy to get the information on TB closing, since there is so much talk about here.
I think you owe me an apology. I know you guys were mentioned on the site I am on, and thought you'd appreciate the headsup, I just want to get this information out to everyone. I guess I was mistaken for coming here to help if this is how you treat people.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 02:31:22 PM
Quote from: ""Crash Test Dummy""
What qualifies Izzy to make suggestions to alternatives?
A good heart, some common sense and a telephone.
Quote
Where is the source of her qualifications for her life coaching?
Living life!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 02:32:17 PM
Didn't know it had already been posted. My mistake. Just trying to help.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 02:38:25 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Is this how you treat people who come here to help you. I thought you'd be interested/happy to get the information on TB closing, since there is so much talk about here.
I think you owe me an apology. I know you guys were mentioned on the site I am on, and thought you'd appreciate the headsup, I just want to get this information out to everyone. I guess I was mistaken for coming here to help if this is how you treat people.
Look. this isn't the thread to post information about TB in... especially since it has already been posted here before. Also. This isn't exactly new info here on Fornits. Rumors of TB's closing have been floating around for a few months now.
We appreciate the heads up, but do it somewhere else, please. This thread is about a corrupt advocate, who will, no doubt try and take credit for TB's closing. changing the topic, in my opinion, is most likely the attempt by that particular corrupt advocate to deflect from her own crimes (distraction tactic). If you are legit, you won't be viewed as such in this thread if you continue to harp on this subject. Please, take your information to another thread.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 02:38:58 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Didn't know it had already been posted. My mistake. Just trying to help.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 02:39:42 PM
Who is this "we" that people refer to? As far as I can tell this thread has people posting who are: ex-program parents ex-program staffs current program parents parents of kids murdered in programs survivors of programs
Why can't it be more harmonious??? Look at the fucking list! :roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 29, 2007, 02:40:28 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Crash Test Dummy""
What qualifies Izzy to make suggestions to alternatives?
A good heart, some common sense and a telephone.
Quote
Where is the source of her qualifications for her life coaching?
Living life!
So in short she has none of the academic qualifications, professional qualifications, or the benifit of any first hand experience to suggest any sort of alternatives.
Also is that living life, or living large?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 02:43:03 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Who is this "we" that people refer to?
In the off chance that you were, indeed, who you say you were, "we" would be a greeting of "thanks for the gesture" from most of the people on fornits. My comment was an attempt at a being polite. I VERY RARELY speak like that.... Unlike Isabelle Zehnder, who makes a consistent habit out of posting (and blogging) in the third person.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 02:48:24 PM
From WWASP vs PURE case"
"WWASP lawyer: Well, we have got what, 287 posts by Lara, Deb C., Hilda, Lara, Deb C., Lara, Tracy, Brittany Reese, those are all you?
Sue Scheff: Yes."
elsewhere:
"Sue Scheff: I made a lot of postings with various pseudonyms, Yes"
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 02:54:55 PM
I don't think I need to remind people here that this thread is as much about PURE's tie to CAICA as it is about Isabelle Zehnder.... And Sue Scheff does not want to be publicly tied to her marketing department... her veil of legitimacy.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 02:56:45 PM
67 pages might want to consider condensing down and starting a new one.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 02:57:31 PM
Quote
As far as I can tell this thread has people posting who are: ex-program parents ex-program staffs current program parents parents of kids murdered in programs survivors of programs
Let's not forget the cult members of WWasp, and people unqualified to refer people to programs, and so-called advocates that are refering people to a x-cult member, someone trying to coach parents and children, with no quailfications. then there are people who are observing all this. just to be fair.
[/b]
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 03:44:30 PM
Isabelle was afraid to go into Washington because she thought somebody was going to shoot her? Did I imagine that comment? That's not healthy paranoia, that's delusional levels.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 03:46:27 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
At one point Isabelle was afraid to attend the Capitol for fear that someone would kill her. I didn't make her attend this event. It was her choice to further her cause.
Yep, there it is.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 03:53:11 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Isabelle was afraid to go into Washington because she thought somebody was going to shoot her? Did I imagine that comment? That's not healthy paranoia, that's delusional levels.
If I sit in a restaurant, i need to sit in a corner seat, so nobody is behind me. I have other paranoid traits that I would rather not mention. I admit, I'm pretty paranoid. But programs do that to people. I am at a loss as to what could make Isabelle so paranoid. Granted, although WWASP has handed out death threats and called people in the middle of the night, I don't think they would actually carry out a public assassination (capitol building? After 9/11?!?! With all the snipers?!??!). If they really wanted to bump Izzy off, it would be best done at the local McDonalds.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 04:03:03 PM
I wonder if the unregulated nature of this industry attracts mentally ill people, who put their insane energy to use "doing god's work"? Who types up like 200 blogs, that's approaching homeless bag guy in the library crazy, and thinking people are out to hurt you? Tell me why I couldn't run a child-advocate scheme out of my mental hospital room, and I have a prize for you.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 04:14:06 PM
Both Scheff and Zehnder appear to share some rather odd personality traits. The incessant ME, ME, ME promotion isn't just over the top, it may be indicative of some sort of obsessive/compulsive personality disorder or problems with self-esteem, body image, etc.
Just my two cents. I am not a psychiatrist.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 04:16:15 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Both Scheff and Zehnder appear to share some rather odd personality traits. The incessant ME, ME, ME promotion isn't just over the top, it may be indicative of some sort of obsessive/compulsive personality disorder or problems with self-esteem, body image, etc.
Just my two cents. I am not a psychiatrist.
Best one I've heard is borderline (BPD) with narcissistic traits (not my opinion.. just heard it)
Just my two cents. I am not a psychiatrist.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 04:18:55 PM
At least one question got answered: and it appears Izzy has noprofessional credentials for her "coaching." No degree in social work, or psychology, child development...doesn't seem to have a 4 year college degree PERIOD---or, she would have listed it.
Other questions remain unanswered: Does her MySpace buddy, Sandy received any type of finder's fee/referral fee for passing "customers" on to Izzy and Scheff? Do Izzy and Scheff refer to WWASP programs? Since the name "SUNRISE" keeps popping up in connection with Scheff; does she have any ownership in Sunrise Adolescent Transport? Does Izzy know where the Sudweeks (Whitmore Academy past owners) are opening up their next facility?
Seems like Izzy isn't answering questions; is she?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 04:24:56 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
At least one question got answered: and it appears Izzy has noprofessional credentials for her "coaching." No degree in social work, or psychology, child development...doesn't seem to have a 4 year college degree PERIOD---or, she would have listed it.
Other questions remain unanswered: Does her MySpace buddy, Sandy received any type of finder's fee/referral fee for passing "customers" on to Izzy and Scheff?
Unknown. Perhaps Sandy is exceptionally trusting. However, if you have read the WWASP vs PURE transcripts, you know that Sue could really network some program parents... "parents helping parents"
Quote
Do Izzy and Scheff refer to WWASP programs?
HIGHLY suspected at this point...
Quote
Since the name "SUNRISE" keeps popping up in connection with Scheff; does she have any ownership in Sunrise Adolescent Transport?
That was my initial assumption, but I doubt it... Perhaps. It is a hell of a coincidence, and It's not like Sue hasn't recruited personnell from CCM before (Marie Peart, for example, who worked in admissions).
Quote
Does Izzy know where the Sudweeks (Whitmore Academy past owners) are opening up their next facility?
Izzy knows... But she doesn't know if I know. So let's wait for her next move.
Quote
Seems like Izzy isn't answering questions; is she?
Trying to figure out excuses...
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 04:49:06 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
If they really wanted to bump Izzy off, it would be best done at the local McDonalds.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 04:49:44 PM
Psy and Others:
IMO, this blog of Izzy's does nothing to set the record straight because it is riddled with "excuses" and apparently, not even an accurate reflection of what transpired.
Second, I hadn't noticed the poem and Cruella DeVille cartoon pictures before which suggests Izzy had been burning the midnight oil or else consulting with Sue Scheff, LOL.
Help!
Is there a shrink in the house?
This is downright bizarre behavior IMO. I have NEVER seen anything like this with other advocates and activists. Has Izzy lost all sense of reality? Does she not see how and/or why people might be totally repulsed by her behavior? The lady is in her 50's yet appears to have the emotional maturity of a child.
And what's up with HIDING behind some unknown entity called the CAICA EDITORIAL BOARD?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 04:52:38 PM
Quote
Freedom of speech is great - but when you go over the line there's a price to pay
Enters Cruella into the old mansion ... as others have said, listen to the voice
The curl of her lips, the ice in her stare, all innocent children had better beware.
Leaving the mansion in the dark of the night ... left everyone standing there full of fright. Oh, Cruella, Cruella De Ville.
CRUELLA, CRUELLA DE VILLE Cruella De Vil, Cruella De Vil.
If she doesn't scare you no evil thing will.
To see her is to take a sudden chill, Cruella, Cruella De Vil.
The curl of her lips, the ice in her stare, all innocent children had better beware.
She's like a spider waiting for the kill.
Look out for Cruella De Vil. At first you think Cruella is the devil, but after time has worn away the shock you come to realize you've seen her kind of eyes watching you from underneath a rock!
This vampire bat this inhuman beast, she ought to be locked up and never released.
The world was such a wholesome place until Cruella, Cruella De Vil.
Isabelle is crazy, want proof click on the Patti blog. :o
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 04:53:47 PM
Quote
And what's up with HIDING behind some unknown entity called the CAICA EDITORIAL BOARD?
::roflmao::
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 04:57:27 PM
Holy Shit Batman! Has Izzy has gone over the edge?
Robin
Terminator in Training Not a Shrink!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on June 29, 2007, 05:22:02 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""psy""
If they really wanted to bump Izzy off, it would be best done at the local McDonalds.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 05:55:12 PM
10,000 views and counting...
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 06:05:23 PM
::phone:: ::phone::
Izzy and Scheff on the phone with each other, can't you picture it, can't you hear it! :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on June 29, 2007, 06:24:06 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Other questions remain unanswered: Does her MySpace buddy, Sandy received any type of finder's fee/referral fee for passing "customers" on to Izzy and Scheff?
Just FYI... I do NOT receive referral fees from Isabelle and I do not even know Sue. I did NOT refer the fake "Patti Atwoods" to Isabelle. Patti contacted me and kept asking ME questions about TB, etc that I did not know the answers to. I told her that Isabelle possibly could answer her questions better.
The ONLY referral that I gave "Patti Atwoods" was to the Texas State Bar Association for her to call and get a referral to an attorney that could answer her legal questions. I stressed to "Patti" that anything I said or Isabelle said would be an opinion only.
Every family's situation is different. Isabelle did help in our situation and she did not charge anything. My stepdaughter was not referred to another program and she did not go to another program. End of story there.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 06:36:22 PM
Sandy, people can read; end of story.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 06:43:46 PM
Quote from: ""Sandy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Other questions remain unanswered: Does her MySpace buddy, Sandy received any type of finder's fee/referral fee for passing "customers" on to Izzy and Scheff?
Just FYI... I do NOT receive referral fees from Isabelle and I do not even know Sue. I did NOT refer the fake "Patti Atwoods" to Isabelle. Patti contacted me and kept asking ME questions about TB, etc that I did not know the answers to. I told her that Isabelle possibly could answer her questions better.
The ONLY referral that I gave "Patti Atwoods" was to the Texas State Bar Association for her to call and get a referral to an attorney that could answer her legal questions. I stressed to "Patti" that anything I said or Isabelle said would be an opinion only.
Every family's situation is different. Isabelle did help in our situation and she did not charge anything. My stepdaughter was not referred to another program and she did not go to another program. End of story there.
Nice going Sandy. Helping to send kids to unregulated programs like the ones your step daughter was sent to? Ouch!
Ignorance is not an excuse. Bottom line is you had no business referring a parent to a personal friend, much less someone who has absolutely no credentials whatsoever to assess the behavioral needs of children. You and Isabelle should stick to sharing recipes not helping troubled teens or families-in-crisis. Leave that to the professionals.
:roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 07:07:15 PM
Lets be fair here, Sandy never would have referred Patti to Isabelle if Patti hadn't contact Sandy by looking at her myspace in order to create this whole mess. I don't know Sandy, but it's apparent she doesn't refer anyone to any programs, and her only dealings were with Isabelle helping her out. You are making it sound like she makes a practice of this, and that's not fair. Now whose being abusive?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 07:10:09 PM
Almost forgot, you've taken this family who has already been traumatized by the program, and thrown her into this mess, and traumatize her even more simply because Isabelle helped her and her daughter. Are you going to traumatize all of Isabelles family and friends and anyone who ever knew her?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 07:22:50 PM
Hold on Guest - you make it sound like this lady Sandy had no choice BUT to refer this parent to Isabelle and that's clearly not the impression I got from reading Isabelle's own blog.
Like the other guest said - leave the referring to people who have the proper credentials, training and experience required to assess the behavioral needs of children. Neither of these women are even remotely qualified. One had a step kid in a program, the other (Isabelle) has no professional qualifications in child psychology or behavioral science. I think I read she is a former legal secretary and recently formed some kind of "coaching" business?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 07:23:04 PM
Seems to me that Sandy was used as a pawn for the purpose of bringing down Isabelle, and for what reason I would like to know. I've been to Cathy's site, and ISAC, like no one is making money there because it says referral free zone, yet there are books for sale, memorial funds that are 501 non-profit dated 2007. Where are the donations for that coming from and going to? Whose getting kick backs by hyping those books, and programs you have to download to read the information. Hypocrates.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 07:32:01 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Seems to me that Sandy was used as a pawn for the purpose of bringing down Isabelle, and for what reason I would like to know. I've been to Cathy's site, and ISAC, like no one is making money there because it says referral free zone, yet there are books for sale, memorial funds that are 501 non-profit dated 2007. Where are the donations for that coming from and going to? Whose getting kick backs by hyping those books, and programs you have to download to read the information. Hypocrates.
Huh?
Non profits like ISAC and the Michelle Sutton Memorial Fund are allowed to accept tax-deductible donations under their status as 501 (c) 3 charitable organizations. CAICA claims to be a non-profit as well, but provides no documentation as being recognized by the IRS as these two orgs. do. You'd have to ask them (CAICA) if that is an oversight or whether they are simply a Washington state nonprofit and never filed for tax-exempt status with the IRS?
May non-profits and for-profit orgs. sell books through Amazon and get a small percentage. CAICA sells books as does PURE, I believe. Nobody seems to be suggesting there is anything wrong with that.
Are you just upset b/c Isabelle apparently DOES refer children to unregulated childrens programs and transport companies unlike what is stated in her disclaimer (CAICA is not for referrals to programs)?
If so, I don't blame you.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 07:33:30 PM
I never said she had no choice. She's obviously a nice person, and felt compelled to help this Patti person out, because from what I read she was sounding desperate. That in no way makes her a person running around referring people. No one ever said she was, she was contacted because she was listed as a friend on Isabelles myspace for the purpose of bringing down Isabelle. How fair is that?
If someone came to me and asked me for help, and I had my kid in a program, or knew someone who had, I would have referred them to that friend, or person, and hoped they could help, or sent them to someone else who could help. That's all Sandy did. And people are telling her she had no right. You have got to be kidding me. Now you guys have a right to dictate who tells who what?
I'm just glad I wasn't listed as one of Isabelle's friends because no doubt that I would also be drug through the mud and chastised for trying to help, as an ex parent of the program.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 07:35:31 PM
Yes, and if you read Cathy's site, under the 501, she's not required to report to the IRS either unless it's over, I believe it was, 25,000 per year.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 07:38:35 PM
Personally, I think this whole thing is all about the money.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 07:39:50 PM
Get over yourself guest and stop whining about poor "sandy" and "isabelle". The teen help industry is unregulated just like these referral services. If you think about it, any parent who relies on a referral from another parent or so-called advocate is not putting their child's safety and well-being first. These people are NOT QUALIFIED and it is UNETHICAL for them to be getting kickbacks from the programs they refer. PERIOD. END OF STORY.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 07:44:53 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Yes, and if you read Cathy's site, under the 501, she's not required to report to the IRS either unless it's over, I believe it was, 25,000 per year.
So fucking what? The industry killed her child. She has helped get laws changed since 1990. She's a real advocate - not somone who refers to outfits like PURE or unlicense transport companies like Isabelle does.
Why don't you do your homework and find out how her child died and in what program? The lady who owned the program still works in the industry today and according to trial testimony, is associated with PURE.
GAYLE PALMER DEGRAFF.
Google it then STFU. You are barking up the wrong tree in your desperation.
:flame:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 07:51:58 PM
I am not talking about Cathy, I am talking about Sandy, and the fact that I think this whole thing was started because of money. Money is always at the end of everything.
As far as regulating programs and referrals, I damb sure believe that needs to be done, starting with congress and getting Bills past, and putting your efforts into that instead of using a poor traumatized family as a pawn. That's all I am saying. Everyone screams about abuse, that's abuse too! And an abuse of power.
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
Get the whole industry regulated and go after the big fish!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 07:54:15 PM
By the way, do you kiss your mother with that mouth? :flame:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 07:56:03 PM
IMO, it's disgusting (maybe even pathological) to be this obsessed with defending izzy as to pick on the mother of a child killed in one of these unregulated programs that are referred by these outfits.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 08:00:47 PM
I am so not picking on her, I am picking at the whole thing! I think you are all a bunch of crooks.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 08:01:50 PM
edit
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 08:01:50 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I am not talking about Cathy, I am talking about Sandy, and the fact that I think this whole thing was started because of money. Money is always at the end of everything.
As far as regulating programs and referrals, I damb sure believe that needs to be done, starting with congress and getting Bills past, and putting your efforts into that instead of using a poor traumatized family as a pawn. That's all I am saying. Everyone screams about abuse, that's abuse too! And an abuse of power.
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
Get the whole industry regulated and go after the big fish!
Big fish, small fish, it's not the size that counts.
They are all dangerous.
Now, do you think you can go find another board to post on? Nobody here is interested in replaying this saga over and over. The cat is outta the bag. Let it go ...
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 08:02:56 PM
Quote
Lets be fair here, Sandy never would have referred Patti to Isabelle if Patti hadn't contact Sandy by looking at her myspace in order to create this whole mess. I don't know Sandy, but it's apparent she doesn't refer anyone to any programs, and her only dealings were with Isabelle helping her out. You are making it sound like she makes a practice of this, and that's not fair. Now whose being abusive?
Isabelle became Sandy's friend after they started working together to help get her step-daughter out of TB. She's not married to the father any more and she had nothing to do with putting her there, but everything to do with taking her out of there. If it weren't for Isabelle the girl would still be there but instead she's out.
Isabelle had Sandy as a friend on MySpace and Patti Atwoods (AKA God knows who - got some ideas) contacted Sandy to try to set Isabelle up. Plain and simple. Couldn't get much simpler than that.
Since Isabelle was able to help Sandy she told Patti about her. Made very good sense and still does.
IF Patti had been a real person Jason her nephew would be home safe with living with his aunt and Isabelle would be coaching him and his mother right now trying to keep the family from falling apart.
Isabelle was doing all the research on the local private school for Jason so if things didn't work for him to go home he'd live a few miles from Patti.
The transport company was only supposed to drive them to/from the airport, not transport the kid. THIS WAS A "RESCUE" as you would refer to it here. THE KID WAS COMING HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And Jason would not be in another potentially abusive environment because if you read Isabelle alerted the family. Yap, pretty qualified if you ask me.
By the way what qualifications do ISAC's have? You know William and Shelby? They claim they help families. How so? What are they doing and recommending?
PRETTY SIMPLE REALLY - ISABELLE DID THE RIGHT THING!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 08:05:09 PM
And I was defending Sandy and what has been done, and what is continuing to be done to her and her family. Why don't you just leave her out of this.
Why don't you leave Isabelle alone and let her continue doing the work she was doing. And not the stuff you guys are accusing her of.
Like I said, if you guys really wanted to do something, you'd be doing something in congress, getting bills passed, going after the big fish.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 08:07:07 PM
edit
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 08:13:19 PM
Man, the more these Isabelle apologists (or apologist, or izzy herself) post the deeper the hole they dig for themselves.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 08:24:14 PM
Yah, real fn funny dragging traumatized families through the mud by deceit and ruining other peoples careers. I can see where that would be really freakin' funny.
The universe always pays it back. :evil: :flame:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 08:33:36 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Seems to me that Sandy was used as a pawn for the purpose of bringing down Isabelle, and for what reason I would like to know. I've been to Cathy's site, and ISAC, like no one is making money there because it says referral free zone, yet there are books for sale, memorial funds that are 501 non-profit dated 2007. Where are the donations for that coming from and going to? Whose getting kick backs by hyping those books, and programs you have to download to read the information. Hypocrates.
Well. First of all. Stop attacking Cathy. Cathy has already explained that although her foundation is a memorial fund, she hasn't collected any donations in nearly 10 years. Books? Oh yeah. That sure a hell of a lot more profitable than 10% of tuition like Sue makes. AFAIK she recommends certain books (so do I, so do most people who find valuable information in books and feel others should read them) but it is absurd to think that there is any financial compensation going on, unlike PURE. Programs you have to download to read the information? You mean Adobe Acrobat reader (FREE). If anybody doubts my honesty, or thinks that I am taking money from programs, I will gladly submit to a financial investigation by a third party.
Second of all. It is highly unlikely Isabelle would have been as comfortable talking to a complete stranger (she knows people have been trying to expose her little deal with Pure for a long time) Asking Sandy for advice was necessary for Isabelle to feel like the parent, Patti, was legitimate. It wouldn't have worked any other way. Is this perhaps a little unfair on Sandy? Probably... However I did not intend on exposing her role in things until somebody claimed that Guest1 was Sandy. I was actually expecting Isabelle to be the one to expose that. Given that only about four people on the planet knew about Sandy, and those people are VERY tight-lipped, and had no motive, I seriously doubt it was one of my sources who decided to bring her into this. I will look into that further to make sure, but it seems as if it was Isabelle who was the one to post that Guest1 is Sandy. Perhaps Isabelle told more people what happened, Perhaps it was Sue (she has ample motive, and it's not the first time she has tried to backstab Isabelle, something Isabelle does not know about yet). In any case, it was not my intention to bring Sandy into this at all. It is not known whether or not Sandy was/is aware of Isabelle's corruption. I asked about this and nobody knew for sure "whose side she is on" (ie, is she working as a referral parent or not). As for who asked who for what, I suggest you check Patti's correspondence with Sandy for that (http://http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/files/Patti.zip).
Sandy. Please keep an open mind when reading this thread. I am sorry for bringing you into this (even privately), but it was necessary to expose Isabelle's association with Sue Scheff, PURE, and associates (ex: Gayle Degraff, Marie Peart). Google those names. These are not good people. Gayle was responsible for the death of Cathy Sutton's daughter, Michelle. Marie Peart used to work in admissions at Cross Creek Manor (WWASP). It is HIGHLY suspected at this time that Sue Scheff is, currently, referring to WWASP.
You weren't around when the Trekkers list was operative. I, and others were. We were all betrayed by Sue Scheff and a lot came out in the PURE trial about her little referral schemes. It became very clear that Sue only had a falling out with WWASP when she was caught defrauding WWASP's referral system, at which point she decided to start referring to whoever would pay her. She got a much better deal. Instead of $1000 per child, she made 10% off the full tuition. She would not tell parents she was getting kickbacks from programs and actually explicitly denied it (she lied). All of this is in the WWASP vs. PURE court transcript (http://http://www.isaccorp.org/wwasps/wwaspsvpure.pdf). If you claim to be a responsible parent, who cares about child abuse in this industry, you should read that document and decide for yourself what kind of person Sue Scheff is...
Don't act like Isabelle was/is ignorant of these facts (sworn testimony by Sue Scheff herself) Patti did not request a program. It was Isabelle's idea to refer to PURE. So was the (unlicenced, WWASP associated escort service). She wasted no time in handing Patti the information for Sunrise and Pure. If she didn't do the same to you, I am perplexed as to why.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 08:37:42 PM
Quote
Don't act like Isabelle was/is ignorant of these facts (sworn testimony by Sue Scheff herself) Patti did not request a program. It was Isabelle's idea to refer to PURE. So was the (unlicenced, WWASP associated escort service). She wasted no time in handing Patti the information for Sunrise and Pure. If she didn't do the same to you, I am perplexed as to why.
E-mail from Patti:
Again, I hope to have some type educational plan intact before I confront my sister, and push her to remove Jason from TB immediately. I'm sure that she will not consider removing Jason from TB, without some plan for his enrollment in a summer and fall program.
PATTI ASKED ISABELLE FOR PROGRAMS. CAN YOU READ?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 08:38:44 PM
From Patti:
Hopefully you can provide the names of acceptable schools; and then I can only hope that these schools will have an opening on such short notice.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 08:43:29 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
Don't act like Isabelle was/is ignorant of these facts (sworn testimony by Sue Scheff herself) Patti did not request a program. It was Isabelle's idea to refer to PURE. So was the (unlicenced, WWASP associated escort service). She wasted no time in handing Patti the information for Sunrise and Pure. If she didn't do the same to you, I am perplexed as to why.
E-mail from Patti:
Again, I hope to have some type educational plan intact before I confront my sister, and push her to remove Jason from TB immediately. I'm sure that she will not consider removing Jason from TB, without some plan for his enrollment in a summer and fall program.
PATTI ASKED ISABELLE FOR PROGRAMS. CAN YOU READ?
And your point is? Isabelle wasn't be held hostage or forced to refer this parent to PURE. She could have said --- sorry, no can do ... CAICA is an educational website, it is NOT for referrals. Oh, and BTW, I have no credentials, unless you count my work as a legal secretary and two years of attendance at a community college. Did I mention I love kids? And that Sue Scheff is my friend and colleague and said I could give you her private home number?
:rofl: You are killing me Izzy (or FOI).
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 08:46:53 PM
Email from Patti: (May 6th) "I have no objections to my nephew attending "an academic boarding school" away from home--if that is my sister's desire. But, I do object to my nephew being at TB, after everything I have read about this facility on the internet. I am hopeful if I can offer my sister other alternatives, that hopefully I can convince her to remove her son from TB, and place him in a safe, academic school that can meet his academic, as well as his behavioral needs."
CAN YOU READ
Yeah, she wanted help, finding a fucking BOARDING SCHOOL.... and not the kind you find on fornits. Sue doesn't do that. Sue does "highest bidder", screw the kid.
Edit... sorry. You're right. It wasn't Izzy who first suggested a program. It was Sandy:
"If you think your sister would be open to another program, you really should contact Isabelle Zehnder. I mentioned you to her so she won't be surprised if you contact her. She can give you more information on the WWASP schools and I'm sure she would know about some legitimate programs in the U.S. She's great at working as a mediator in family relations."
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 08:49:02 PM
I am lost, what school did Isabelle refer Patti too? Can someone catch me up?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 08:52:54 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I am lost, what school did Isabelle refer Patti too?
PURE, as well as a specific escort service in Utah that works with WWASP. Read form the first page on. It's pretty quick and entertaining reading.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 08:53:30 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I am lost, what school did Isabelle refer Patti too? Can someone catch me up?
Err ... good question ... nobody knows because PURE doesn't disclose the names of the schools it refers to.
That's ANOTHER problem with Isabelle that should be emphasized since she ADMITS she referred a child that was PLACED in a program, presumably by her pal Sue Scheff at PURE.
WHAT PROGRAM WAS THAT IZZY?
HOW MUCH DID THE PLACEMENT EARN SUE?
Care to share?
Naw, didn't think so. Better to write another blog whining about how nobody likes you.
:roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 09:03:40 PM
Yes Sandy, sorry to drag your already traumatized family through the mud just to nail Isabelle to a cross. Your consolation prize is my half-assed apology. Nice one Psy.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 09:04:07 PM
Quote
CAICA is an educational website
The website is educational but there's a whole lot more to CAICA than just a website. Hello!!
Hey, by the way, what would you have suggested to Ms. Patti? Go ahead and send the kid to another potentially abusive program? Better yet, just leave him in TB. Why should Isabelle care and put herself on the line helping parents?
Care to take that role? Any parents calling you asking for help?
Hey, Psy, what would you have told Patti to do? She needed the names of alternative programs or her nephew might not have come home at all from TB.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 09:10:39 PM
Quote
Yeah, she wanted help, finding a fucking BOARDING SCHOOL.... and not the kind you find on fornits. Sue doesn't do that. Sue does "highest bidder", screw the kid.
You are all kidding yourselves. Sue's helped more families than anyone on this board and you all know it. You are so jealous it's all over these pages. No one would care this much about one person.
Hey, what about going after Jane Hawley? She's referring 50 kids a month to WWASPS programs. Where's the long drawn out posts about her?
Or the tons of others. What about Hinton? Is it worse that Sue works to help parents than Hinton who goes to trial in August? Anyone even remember that's happening or are you to obsessed with this to remember?
And Lichfield. Karr Farnsworth. Ken Kay. Jay Kay. What's wrong wtih this picture?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 09:10:46 PM
Can we get an AMEN?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 09:10:57 PM
Personally? I think Sandy has only herself to blame. She should have used better judgment. How would she like it if her step daughter was referred by someone who stood to profit from placing her in a program that pays finder's fees? Ooops. Wasn't this kid in a WWASPS program and don't they pay finder's fee?
Tsk, Tsk. The Big Bad WWASPS aint' the only bad program out there Sandy. Hopefully you have educated yourself about the "referral" industry and can chalk this up as an important lesson LEARNED.
Also, since psy wasn't apparently involved, why does he owe anybody an apology? The email was between izzy, sandy, pure and patty, was it not?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 09:12:38 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
Yeah, she wanted help, finding a fucking BOARDING SCHOOL.... and not the kind you find on fornits. Sue doesn't do that. Sue does "highest bidder", screw the kid.
You are all kidding yourselves. Sue's helped more families than anyone on this board and you all know it. You are so jealous it's all over these pages. No one would care this much about one person.
Hey, what about going after Jane Hawley? She's referring 50 kids a month to WWASPS programs. Where's the long drawn out posts about her?
Or the tons of others. What about Hinton? Is it worse that Sue works to help parents than Hinton who goes to trial in August? Anyone even remember that's happening or are you to obsessed with this to remember?
And Lichfield. Karr Farnsworth. Ken Kay. Jay Kay. What's wrong wtih this picture?
Hinton was Sue's business partner you twat. Read the WWASP vs PURE court transcript.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 09:13:19 PM
What about Lon WOodbury whose site is nothing but program after program after program. The guy makes money for each icon on that site. See any ads on CAICA? CAICA gets thousands of hits every month so money could be made from Goodle Ads but they won't do it because it'll link to programs.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 09:13:54 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
CAICA is an educational website
The website is educational but there's a whole lot more to CAICA than just a website. Hello!!
Hey, by the way, what would you have suggested to Ms. Patti? Go ahead and send the kid to another potentially abusive program? Better yet, just leave him in TB. Why should Isabelle care and put herself on the line helping parents?
Care to take that role? Any parents calling you asking for help?
Hey, Psy, what would you have told Patti to do? She needed the names of alternative programs or her nephew might not have come home at all from TB.
She didn't need or even ask for alternative programs. It was suggested to her. Is your memory really that short or do I need to quote TWO POSTS AGO.
I would have suggested finding an at-home solution.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 09:14:50 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
What about Lon WOodbury whose site is nothing but program after program after program.
I already destroyed him (or at least his message board, which was a haven for ed-cons, and his primary (alleged) source of customers).
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 09:16:20 PM
Quote
Hinton was Sue's business partner you twat. Read the WWASP vs PURE court transcript.
Read it and he wasn't a business partner like you'd like to make everyone believe. She admits she referred to WWASPS when she had her daughter in the program, just like all the other parents who believed it was good. Hell, thousands of people don't fall for something if the marketing isn't good. They perfected this thing to get parents to believe in them and their programs.
And for the referrals after her kids got out. Parents have fliers and busienss cards with their id numbers on them and even after the kid is out people find them and still use the number. Read the transcript. The number was given to another parent by WWASPS but for a while still showed up under SUe's name. She never referred to WWASPS after her daughter got out. Read the transcript. I have.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 09:17:03 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
Yeah, she wanted help, finding a fucking BOARDING SCHOOL.... and not the kind you find on fornits. Sue doesn't do that. Sue does "highest bidder", screw the kid.
You are all kidding yourselves. Sue's helped more families than anyone on this board and you all know it. You are so jealous it's all over these pages. No one would care this much about one person.
Hey, what about going after Jane Hawley? She's referring 50 kids a month to WWASPS programs. Where's the long drawn out posts about her?
Or the tons of others. What about Hinton? Is it worse that Sue works to help parents than Hinton who goes to trial in August? Anyone even remember that's happening or are you to obsessed with this to remember?
And Lichfield. Karr Farnsworth. Ken Kay. Jay Kay. What's wrong wtih this picture?
Ah yes, Randall Hinton.
Sue Scheff's pal who worked at Teen Help then quit to open his own program in Puerto Rico .... hmmm ... careful now, don't think you wanna go down that road unless you are ready to potentially open a Pandora's Box and have the shit hit the fan?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 09:17:27 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Yes Sandy, sorry to drag your already traumatized family through the mud just to nail Isabelle to a cross. Your consolation prize is my half-assed apology. Nice one Psy.
Isabelle nailed her own dumb self to the cross by preying on survivors and thinking nothing would happen. She nailed her own dumb self to a cross by referring an ignorant parent, who "knew" nothing about the industry or it's dangers, to PURE, an organization KNOWN to refer to abusive programs.
She nailed herself to a cross by Referring to an unlicensed, unregulated transport system run by "ex"-teen help employees who currently work with wwasp.
She nailed herself to a cross by denying what she did repeatedly, and being STUPID enough to keep on hanging herself on her blog.
She nailed herself to a cross by sending me threats.
She nailed herself to a cross by being a low enough person to attack Cathy Sutton.
And the nailing ain't done yet.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 09:18:29 PM
Quote
I already destroyed him (or at least his message board, which was a haven for ed-cons, and his primary (alleged) source of customers).
You are so full of yourself that you actually believe you are the one who "destroyed" him. Think again.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 09:18:35 PM
Sandy's fault. You got some balls. Have you not been reading, she was used fraudulently, even Psy admits it. Her fault. Screw you. And I don't even know her, but you can bet your ass if it were me, I wouldn't be so nice. How dare you. For your own gain, you were willing to sacrafice another family who has already been through enough. What's really the agenda here, Isabelle, or money? :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 09:21:38 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
I already destroyed him (or at least his message board, which was a haven for ed-cons, and his primary (alleged) source of customers).
You are so full of yourself that you actually believe you are the one who "destroyed" him. Think again.
So full of myself? Really. Have you read my "banned from ST" threads?!?! Do you know the full story behind everything that went on from november of last year? Yes. It WAS me. Ask Lon!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 09:22:08 PM
Quote
Sandy's fault. You got some balls. Have you not been reading, she was used fraudulently, even Psy admits it. Her fault. Screw you. And I don't even know her, but you can bet your ass if it were me, I wouldn't be so nice. How dare you. For your own gain, you were willing to sacrafice another family who has already been through enough. What's really the agenda here, Isabelle, or money?
Actually Sandy's not all that nice and she works for lawyers. I've heard she's looking into all of her options. She's not going to put up with this kind of shit, neither is anyone else. You think it's OK to slander and defame people well think again. It's not. And if you think you are immune from getting sued you are either being misled by someone or you aren't too bright.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 09:22:13 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
Hinton was Sue's business partner you twat. Read the WWASP vs PURE court transcript.
Read it and he wasn't a business partner like you'd like to make everyone believe. She admits she referred to WWASPS when she had her daughter in the program, just like all the other parents who believed it was good. Hell, thousands of people don't fall for something if the marketing isn't good. They perfected this thing to get parents to believe in them and their programs.
And for the referrals after her kids got out. Parents have fliers and busienss cards with their id numbers on them and even after the kid is out people find them and still use the number. Read the transcript. The number was given to another parent by WWASPS but for a while still showed up under SUe's name. She never referred to WWASPS after her daughter got out. Read the transcript. I have.
Baloney!
Randall Hinton endorsed Scheff on her own website, PURE, promoting WWASPS programs.
The proof was posted on the PURE/CAICA forum. Lots of little gems posted there ... including my personal favorite - the email from Kevin Richey about Sue's referral fees ... let's see ... that was July-August I believe. And when was PURE formed?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 09:23:39 PM
Quote
So full of myself? Really. Have you read my "banned from ST" threads?!?! Do you know the full story behind everything that went on from november of last year? Yes. It WAS me. Ask Lon!
Lon had a different story so I hear, and rumor has it that the last laugh's gonna be on you, not Lon.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 09:25:29 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Sandy's fault. You got some balls. Have you not been reading, she was used fraudulently
Fradulently? She decided to take it upon herself to recommend another program to patti... (and by the way, she knows I said you were calling, so I can get my _____ )
That's how sue works. That was her deal with Marie Peart and other "parents helping parents" (split the referral). Am I saying that's how it went down with Sandy? No. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. That's why I said sorry for bringing her into this. If it was possible to go to Isabelle directly, that would have been done. I'm repeating myself...
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 09:26:47 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
So full of myself? Really. Have you read my "banned from ST" threads?!?! Do you know the full story behind everything that went on from november of last year? Yes. It WAS me. Ask Lon!
Lon had a different story so I hear, and rumor has it that the last laugh's gonna be on you, not Lon.
So You hear? I wonder who has recently been making alliances with Lonnie Boy?
Lon's board is GONE. GONE GONE GONE.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 09:28:13 PM
To quote an obvious poet "You twit", Psy admitted that Sandy had to used in order to trap Isabelle, you fool, and that he'd have to check with his peeps to see who let the cat out of the bag.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 09:29:47 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
she was used fraudulently, even Psy admits it.
fraudulently? look it upp... and while you're at it, look up negligence!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 09:31:48 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
To quote an obvious poet "You twit", Psy admitted that Sandy had to used in order to trap Isabelle, you fool, and that he'd have to check with his peeps to see who let the cat out of the bag.
IT WASN'T MY "PEEPS" !!!
WE HAD NO MOTIVE TO DO IT
SUE HAD AMPLE, SO DID IZZY
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 09:34:46 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The proof was posted on the PURE/CAICA forum. Lots of little gems posted there ... including my personal favorite - the email from Kevin Richey about Sue's referral fees ... let's see ... that was July-August I believe. And when was PURE formed?
That's right, Folks. Sue got found out trying to rip WWASP off, and they didn't like that. So they bumped her and she found a brand new source of blood money, PURE. She went into competition, and decided that slamming her own allies for abuse was a useful marketing tactic (the schools she decided to refer to instead, are the proof in teh pudding that she did not care at all where the kids ended up..
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 09:36:02 PM
OMG, If you're gonna talk shit, follow the story idiot. Sandy didn't refer Patti to any program you moron. And the point here is she's been traumatized enough, and for the sake of someones vendetta, used and lied to again, and hurt, because apparently she's expendible enough that whatever happens/happend to her makes no difference to the agenda. Isn't that right. Some people just can't be spared as long as it's in the name of Good for the Cause? :flame: :flame:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 09:39:22 PM
Are you a lawyer Psy, why don't you site the law for us. I already know what it means. And what you did could be considered negligent, and what Patti did could be construed as Fraud, oh hell, it was, why skirt around the truth. Why don't you look up the word "truth".
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 09:39:51 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
OMG, If you're gonna talk shit, follow the story idiot. Sandy didn't refer Patti to any program you moron. And the point here is she's been traumatized enough, and for the sake of someones vendetta, used and lied to again, and hurt, because apparently she's expendible enough that whatever happens/happend to her makes no difference to the agenda. Isn't that right. Some people just can't be spared as long as it's in the name of Good for the Cause? :flame: :flame:
Email from Patti: (May 6th) "I have no objections to my nephew attending "an academic boarding school" away from home--if that is my sister's desire. But, I do object to my nephew being at TB, after everything I have read about this facility on the internet. I am hopeful if I can offer my sister other alternatives, that hopefully I can convince her to remove her son from TB, and place him in a safe, academic school that can meet his academic, as well as his behavioral needs."
CAN YOU READ
Yeah, she wanted help, finding a fucking BOARDING SCHOOL.... and not the kind you find on fornits. Sue doesn't do that. Sue does "highest bidder", screw the kid.
Edit... sorry. You're right. It wasn't Izzy who first suggested a program. It was Sandy:
"If you think your sister would be open to another program, you really should contact Isabelle Zehnder. I mentioned you to her so she won't be surprised if you contact her. She can give you more information on the WWASP schools and I'm sure she would know about some legitimate programs in the U.S. She's great at working as a mediator in family relations."
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 09:41:11 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Are you a lawyer Psy, why don't you site the law for us. I already know what it means. And what you did could be considered negligent, and what Patti did could be construed as Fraud, oh hell, it was, why skirt around the truth. Why don't you look up the word "truth".
Hey you dumb fucks. Why don't we find out what happens when somebody subpoenas this thread. Will we have another repeat of Sue's famous multiple online personality postings?
WHOA.... NOW YOU FIGURE IT OUT. i guess i'm not as dumb as you think.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 29, 2007, 09:41:49 PM
Yeah if you are gonna have sympathy for Sandy also have it for her kid. 5 programs and still going strong.... wow... that is alot of programs.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Are you a lawyer Psy, why don't you site the law for us. I already know what it means. And what you did could be considered negligent, and what Patti did could be construed as Fraud, oh hell, it was, why skirt around the truth. Why don't you look up the word "truth".
Bring it on bitch! SUE ME! SUE ME HARDER!!!!
I'm done with this thread. you've dug your graves.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 29, 2007, 09:44:56 PM
Yeah I bet the IP records would reveal some interesting facts. Wouldn't at all look good for Izzy Or Sue.
Still not to late to jump ship Izzy. Do the right thing and spill those beans to the right person.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 09:46:25 PM
Quote from: ""Crash Test Dummy""
Yeah I bet the IP records would reveal some interesting facts. Wouldn't at all look good for Izzy Or Sue.
Still not to late to jump ship Izzy. Do the right thing and spill those beans to the right person.
That's right. And if you don't believe sue would do the same to you, feel free to contact me privately and I can show you proof.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 09:48:57 PM
Quote
That's right, Folks. Sue got found out trying to rip WWASP off, and they didn't like that.
------Original Message------
From: Kevin Richey To: Ken Kay Date: August 17, 2001 Subject: Sue Scheff
The last contact I had with Sue was 8 18 (sic 16) she emailed a lead to me. In our last conversation probably last week July she said she thought our programs were good but that our Seminars were terrible. She said she would continue to send referrals to me for Majestic Ranch as she didn't have any other resources for younger kids 7-12. She said she had placed 8 kids that week in Red Cliff or Red Rock not sure which. She asked me to manipulate the referral system and give 2 referrals to her so she wouldn't have to pay Diane Luchetto for 2 referrals that she somehow received from her. She said she had given Diane about 12 referrals. I told her that I couldn't change that information in our computer system and that I didn't feel right about doing it if I could.
### end
Wow - referring kids to Majestic Ranch huh? The SAME program Izzy wrote a scathing report about after inserting herself in ISAC's investigation and causing all kinds of havoc?
Way to go Izzy. Did you happen to mention in this report that your friend and colleague Sue Scheff actually referred to this apparent hellhole? AFTER starting PURE? Inquiring minds want to know because you see, it's becoming very clear that Sue Scheff (PURE) continued to refer to WWASPS until apparently, she had some falling out with them over referral fees.
Now, it's true no one really can know the entire story unless they are Sue or WWASPS, but from reading the documents and other materials posted on the PURE/CAICA forum it looks to me like where there is smoke there is fire.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 09:50:16 PM
subpena these records...YAH THINK!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 29, 2007, 09:50:49 PM
If anyone is going to sue someone remember the only person to really blame is Lord Xenu.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 09:58:09 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
subpena these records...YAH THINK!
Oh, it will make a hell of a story when I finally get to explain all of what has been going on. Have a nice life Sue, Izzy. Say Hi to Lon for me.
Edit: I forgot to mention:
::both::
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on June 29, 2007, 09:59:52 PM
Quote from: ""Crash Test Dummy""
Yeah if you are gonna have sympathy for Sandy also have it for her kid. 5 programs and still going strong.... wow... that is alot of programs.
My stepdaughter was in TB ONLY and NEVER was or EVER will be in another one of those places. You have me confused with someone else.
I believe in keeping the kids at home and working things out. As far as the email when I mentioned "program", I did NOT mean to ship the poor kid off. My kids' schools always called what they did "programs".
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 10:01:20 PM
From the Utah trial transcripts beginning at page 219:
KEVIN RICHEY TESTIFIES. Kevin is a WWASP/Teen Help referral guru.
Q. How did you first become familiar with Ms. Scheff?
A. She was a referring parent to the programs and work with an associate Randall Hinton. And Randall left to go work at one of the (WWASP) programs, and at that point I started to try to help Sue Scheff.
Q. Tried to help Sue Scheff do what?
A. Well, she would have a lot of referring parents that were coming into program. And I tried to do my best to help her to get paid on the referrals. Basically would be the help that I was offering her.
Q. Do you recall an arrangement between Ms. Scheff and Diane Lucchetti?
A. Yes.
Q. What was that arrangement?
A. I believe .. . . .the way it was set up what that Sue and Diane were working together and at some point I believe they were sharing referrals......
Q. Did Ms. Scheff ask for your assistance in getting paid for those referrals?
A. I believe she did, uh-huh.............
KEVIN RICHEY EXPLAINS THAT HE LEFT IN DECEMBER 2001 AND THAT SUE SCHEFF WAS A REFERRING PARENT FOR OVER A YEAR TO WWASP.
NOW LISTEN TO THIS DRUM ROLL......................
Q. Prior to the time that you left Teen Help, do you recall Ms. Scheff explaining to you about her daughter's treatment at Carolina Springs?
A. I don't remember that.
Q. Prior to that time (before Kevin Richey left WWASP's Teen Help), do you recall Ms. Scheff complaining of any complaints of World Wide schools?
A. I don't recall any.
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? IT MEANS MIZZIE SUE SCHEFF THOUGHT WWASP WAS WONDERFUL AND SHE SAID SO. GREAT PLACE THAT WWASP ACCORDING TO SUE SCHEFF UNTIL SHE COULD NO LONGER CON PAYMENTS FROM WWASP FOR KIDS SHE HAD OTHER REFERRING ON HER PYRAMID SCHEME.
------------------------------------------
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:37 pm Post subject: R. Hinton and S. Scheff, all lovey dovey
"Teen Help is a marketing group that has provided many Specialty Schools with thousands of students who are in need of help. We are a service that educates and helps parents with their students transition from home to the facility. Our doors have been open for eleven years to assist any parent in need of our help.
P.U.R.E. has been and is a valuable asset to Teen Help. Its experts are very successful with the Parent Referral Program, and have educated many parents in the referral process. P.U.R.E. has presented our Specialty Schools as an alternative for many parents, Therapists, Doctors, Guidance Counselors, District Attorneys, School Districts, and Probation Officers.
Parents Universal Referral Experts have had first hand experience with Carolina Springs Academy. They has toured the facility, met the staff, and know the ins and outs of the program. Their first hand experience has eased the minds of many parents in the admissions process."
Sincerely,
Randall Hinton Teen Help Admissions
NOTE: This appears to have been posted on PURE website in early 2001
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 29, 2007, 10:02:39 PM
Ouch sorry sandy following this thread at times has been a bit of a migraine.
Would you care to answer a few questions from me though?
I promise to play nice and share my toys.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 10:10:42 PM
Ain't it grand? I just love it when these little diamonds in the rough show up on Fornits. Nothing like taking a stroll down memory lane - nightmarish journey that it may be for some folks like those mentioned in these court transcripts and emails ... but alas .. such is life. What goes around comes around. My advice is don't step into the chit unless ya got your wading boots on.
:lol:
This one's for you Izzy ... just in case you really do care about Layne Brown's passing a year ago and how he was apparently treated by your bosum buddy Sue Scheff.
You know, for a long time, I had an uncomfortable notion that maybe Sue was protecting Hinton. From what, you might ask? Well, possibly, from the consequences of the abuse he inflicted upon Layne. Why would I think so, you might ask? Well, its difficult to explain. But it was as if Sue held an undercurrent of hostility toward Layne. It was not overt in any way. But there was always an effort on her part to exclude him. For example - back when there were efforts to contact parents and kids about the CA law suit - she was opposed to telling Layne anything about it. She insisted his statue of limitation had run and that telling him about it would only frustrate him. (wrong) She expressed other concerns having to do with his fragile mental health. (wouldn't getting some measure of justice Help, not Hurt?) I decided to ignore her concerns, and told him about it.
There were other occasions, involving journalist, where Sue seemed hostile to bringing Layne in on it. Again, nothing strongly overt - but just a discouragement from doing so - a "concern" it might not be beneficial.
It always nagged at me - Why was she hostile to the idea of letting this young man be part of an attempt to achieve some measure of justice? I knew she had at one time worked with Hinton. I didn't know it had been during the time she was operating PURE. But I did wonder, if she were helping him keep his ass covered.
For awhile Layne was trying to find out where Hinton was. I think he was hoping there could be charges brought for his crimes, if he could be found. I noticed that reporters sometimes quoted anon sources, who had worked from the Program, and who appeared to be Hinton - and wondered how the reporters were finding him. One reporter did confirm to me he had interviewed Hinton, but he would not tell me where he was. I now suspect that when it suited her - Sue provided the reporters with his whereabouts and contact info. But if she had it, she never offered this info to Layne.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 29, 2007, 10:14:51 PM
Jesus.. Toxic just reading that.
anyway to Sandy:
I'd like to hear from you about your experiences with Tranquility Bay. I started an open thread with some questions on it. Please feel free to answer them if you feel up to it. My forum was designed for just that questions and answers to keep the flame baiting down to a minimum. Actually its the only place on fornits were I'm well behaved at all times.
Again I'd really like to hear your side of the TB story.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 29, 2007, 10:20:01 PM
Suddenly... all the trolls are silenced... I wonder what happend... ... I can hear screams of "IZZZZZYYYY FIX THISSSSS" from here.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 29, 2007, 10:27:55 PM
lols.. yeah.. but hey you said you were going to sod off for an hour or two....
:flame: :flame: :flame:
GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2007, 10:45:08 PM
Well, it is kind of hard to argue the facts when apparently, all ya got is a bag full of empty"excuses".
My guess is the Izzy Defense ran out of decoys and she's probably preparing either a Mea Culpa blog or still not willing to cry Uncle, perhaps working on the Great Conspiracy Against Caica report. :rofl:
Either way, it seems the party really is over. SIGH ... what's for dessert?
Title: empty arguments
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 12:38:06 AM
Ya' All got such an empty argument. Who cares who referred who. When does someone design a plan to stop this Horse crap!!!
You spend more hours in a day argueing over empty drama. When will any of you ever make a difference and stand for the kids and parents that are sucked into this crap now!!!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 01:12:53 AM
Not Buying It - why are you here? Izzy's Pity Party was shut down by the Fornits Truth Squad about 50 pages ago.
May I recommend you return to the index page where you will find many other topics to engage your interest?
Thanks and have a good evening.
Title: why?? good question
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 01:22:11 AM
why are you here?
because it's time something is done to stop the crap happening to these families!!!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 01:32:34 AM
SO what's with that Cruela Deville poem?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 02:23:46 AM
You're asking Not buyin it to speculate on what Isabelle is doing and expect the right answer? Wow, not buyin it, they must really think you have the answers to the universe.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 02:26:51 AM
R Crash Test Dummy, if you are sincere about your post, I would like to speak to you to, but not before some disclaimer of privacy is met, because what I have to say is pretty serious, and at the same time I am trying to maintain my confidentiality as well as others. I am a guest by the way, not Sandy, however, I have stood strong of defending her because I feel she's really received the wrong end of whatever this is truly about.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 02:35:39 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
You're asking Not buyin it to speculate on what Isabelle is doing and expect the right answer?
Nope. Read it again.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 02:36:47 AM
Crash Test Dummy I want to talk to you.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 02:46:12 AM
Ultimately, if someone were to subpena this web thread, there is a lot to answer for, not only that, there a so many posts that are suspect, not to meention the foul language, disrespect for a website that states they are here for the parents and children, and the fall-out, if you will, from the WWASP program, which most people coming out of are still non-trusting individuals, whether family or friends.
Additionally, you've proven to do some pretty irreprehensible tactics, not caring who you hurt in the process. Doesn't give you much credibility don't cha' think? The eyes and ears of the world of WWASP, including other programs are upon you. Don't you think you should be making a difference? Steering by example. I don't think I need to explain why I am saying this, but in the future you might find it was pretty noteworthy. Should of, would of, could of, won't save you then.
Ultimately, threats of a lawsuit may soon become real, or this thread may become part of an ongoing suit, but I am sure you've already taken that into consideration, but then again, maybe you haven't. In any event, there is going to be fallout, no matter how you edit it. And I say edit it, because I have seen the edit, posts missing or moved around to suit, but someone is keeping their eye on you and copying these posts, which will make your credibility lessened.
Your choice, deal and be real, or give it a rest. Most of what is being said here is hearsay, and is inadmissable in a court of law. As far as he said, she said.
Typed accusations, on the other hand, without concrete evidence, isn't considered, and ignorance or the law is no excuse. You guys might want to consult your attorney friend from ISAC whose, from what I hear, and hearsay, got her documentary screwed up. But that's just me talking again, you know, we are not in it for the money thing. Bollocks. Which Swiss account do you want me to wire money too?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 03:04:05 AM
Attorney friend from ISAC? Didn't know any attorneys were associated with ISAC. What "documentary" got screwed up? Who or what is BOLLOCKS? Why are you offering money to be deposited into a Swiss Bank account?
This makes no sense.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 03:07:22 AM
Attorney from ISAC? Documentary screwed up? What kind of gibberish is this? Where's my cryptic magic reader ring? I don't understand a single word of the above post. Am I the only one? :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 04:34:50 AM
If I post in this thread does that mean I can come to court and meet everyone too,I don't want to be left out? :cry:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 04:41:06 AM
Quote
Bollocks.
:question:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 30, 2007, 04:45:28 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Who or what is BOLLOCKS?
n. Vulgar Slang
1. The testicles. 2. Nonsense.
(American Heritage Dictionary)
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 05:24:48 AM
Quote
“Patti Atwoods” wasted three weeks of precious time that could have been used to help others. She continues to do everything in her power to discredit Isabelle. We believe she has aligned with former program victims. Isabelle continues to receive threatening e-mails from a young man in Virginia who claims he was abused at Benchmark. He does not know Isabelle, he has never spoken with her, and he has no idea the work she has done to help families.
He is sending Isabelle and Sue threatening e-mails which are being taken seriously and that have been forwarded to the proper authorities.
There is a fine line between free speech and Internet Slander and Defamation. That line has been crossed.
From that blog. Sounds a lot like "guest".
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 08:28:22 AM
Quote
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!
THAT WAS AN EASY ONE.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on June 30, 2007, 08:45:34 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Who or what is BOLLOCKS?
Never mind the bollocks.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 30, 2007, 09:25:24 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
R Crash Test Dummy, if you are sincere about your post, I would like to speak to you to, but not before some disclaimer of privacy is met, because what I have to say is pretty serious, and at the same time I am trying to maintain my confidentiality as well as others. I am a guest by the way, not Sandy, however, I have stood strong of defending her because I feel she's really received the wrong end of whatever this is truly about.
Not interested then. Its on my moderated forum or not at all. I believe Izzy and her chums have been involved in quite enough backgate shennanigans for all of our lifetimes.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 11:41:37 AM
Bollocks!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: BuzzKill on June 30, 2007, 11:45:27 AM
Typed accusations, on the other hand, without concrete evidence, isn't considered, and ignorance or the law is no excuse. You guys might want to consult your attorney friend from ISAC whose, from what I hear, and hearsay, got her documentary screwed up. But that's just me talking again, you know, we are not in it for the money thing. Bollocks. Which Swiss account do you want me to wire money too?
Back to top ================================================= Guest
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:04 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Attorney friend from ISAC? Didn't know any attorneys were associated with ISAC. What "documentary" got screwed up? Who or what is BOLLOCKS? Why are you offering money to be deposited into a Swiss Bank account?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:07 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Attorney from ISAC? Documentary screwed up? What kind of gibberish is this? Where's my cryptic magic reader ring? I don't understand a single word of the above post. Am I the only one?
Your not alone. It makes no sense. But it is interesting someone thinks it does (as they posted it) and I wonder what they think they know - and how they think they know it? Care to explain guest?
Sandy - I feel for you (a little) I know how it is being caught in the controversy that is always swirling around PURE and CACA. I was once often battered for my friendship with Sue, and thus my apparent (tho untrue) support of PURE.
Eventually, proof was offered that Sue's critics were right - and I was wrong. I could no longer find a shed of hope, or the least doubt, that Sue was motivated by profit, and the welfare of the children was in no way a factor.
Much the same must be said of Izzy.
You will have to look at the evidence and make up your own mind Sandy; but I do hope you will look at the evidence and not let yourself be led by the nose to the Kool-aid vat.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 11:52:05 AM
Quote
Much the same must be said of Izzy.
By who Buzzkill? Those who post here?
Title: Re: why?? good question
Post by: ZenAgent on June 30, 2007, 11:57:16 AM
Quote from: ""Not Buyin' it""
why are you here?
because it's time something is done to stop the crap happening to these families!!!
Strange, that's what we're trying to do here. I wish somebody had stopped the crap that happened to my family as a result of my step daughter being sent to Peninsula Village. She suffered immensely there. We couldn't see her or talk to her for over six months. I'd like to stop that crap from happening to another family.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 12:05:55 PM
Wouldn't you like to know WHICH PROGRAM Izzy referred this one child to that she ADMITS she referred? Wouldn't you like to know that this child is "safe?" and not in some abusive program? But, Izzy and her "friend Sue" don't reveal the names of programs they refer to, do they?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 12:47:48 PM
Izzy has changed the front page of CA-CA again. Who is on your "research team" Izzy?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 01:27:20 PM
Izzy is a one-man-show much like PURE, from what I gather.
The revelation made by HERSELF and in her own words that she has assisted in the placement of youth into unregulated specialty schools and programs while all the time claiming not to be a referral website, has triggered a landslide of criticism for which she has only herself to blame, IMO.
Calling people names, publishing cartoons, repeating gossip, making allegations against parent and children are all indicative of someone who does not conduct themselves with any degree of professionalism, IMO.
As such, I would have to say that at the end of the day - Izzy is her own worst enemy.
Comments?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 02:43:20 PM
BEWARE NON-PROFESSIONAL ADVICE By: Lon Woodbury
The private parent-choice industry for struggling teens has unfortunately attracted a number of people who see big and easy money in it. Perhaps the worst is the person who has a smooth telephone voice, and a sympathetic ear, pretending to be helping parents but in reality just helping him or herself at the expense of desperate, frightened and confused parents. For these people, desperate parents are seen as a "cash cow" to obtain money from programs for talking parents into enrolling their child into a cooperating program. This activity, sometimes called Finders Fee or kickbacks, is condemned as highly unethical by the Independent Educational Consultants Association (IECA) and the National Association for Therapeutic Schools and Programs (NATSAP), the professional organizations in this industry. The self-serving advice from these "referring Agencies" can do great harm to parents and the children.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 02:55:34 PM
Yea--even Lon Woodbury--states it is UNETHICAL for programs to pay these referral fees directly to referral companies like PURE; and people who refer to PURE, like Isabelle Zehnder (CAICA).
How scary is this--even depending on LON to point out how wrong it is for IZZY to be referring anyone to Scheff/Pure?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 03:38:06 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Izzy has changed the front page of CA-CA again. Who is on your "research team" Izzy?
that would be Jeff Berryman:
Folks, I am now doing Isabel's news screening for her, so I will be getting even more articles than before. If anyone wants to be taked off my mailing list due to excessive volume, let me know.
Jeff Berryman
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 03:43:06 PM
Yes, while Lon gets money for every icon that links to a program on his site. I suppose he's been able to keep really close tabs on all those places, right?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 03:46:18 PM
If you are suggesting that posters here don't criticize Lon you are wrong. He gets just as much as attention around here than anyone.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 04:02:52 PM
Well hello Jeff; still in the Sue-Sue loop are you? Is that really you in that picture; the really really fat naked guy sitting at the computer? Heard Sue-Sue made fun of you a lot, but is that really you in that picture everyone said she passed around?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 04:13:57 PM
true or false
Lon has agreed to give testimony with regard to SS? Expert testimony on her her practice and lack of qualifications.
Seems lots of people want to set the record straight so that the real truth on SS will be known by all.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 04:16:42 PM
OK. My vote is TRUE.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 04:18:46 PM
Lon to give expert testimony in an upcoming trial? Interesting.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 05:15:08 PM
Quote
Lon has agreed to give testimony with regard to SS? Expert testimony on her her practice and lack of qualifications
I think possibly the person who asked this question, ment on the articule on the struggling teens board, by Mr. Woodbury.
If I am incorrect please advise.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 05:42:05 PM
ISAC a Referral Free Zone, that you guys push, yet they refer to the sevices of Lorna Goldberg M.S.W.A.C.S.W for cults, and hang onto your seats kiddies, they also refer to Wellness Springs Retreat, specializing in cult recovery. And they are a referral free zone, and they are referring a facility? Oops!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 05:51:40 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
ISAC a Referral Free Zone, that you guys push, yet they refer to the sevices of Lorna Goldberg M.S.W.A.C.S.W for cults, and hang onto your seats kiddies, they also refer to Wellness Springs Retreat, specializing in cult recovery. And they are a referral free zone, and they are referring a facility? Oops!
That sounds like the survivor run websites - and if so, that is a hell of a lot different than sending a kid to a CULT PROGRAM.
Besides, don't think those cult recovery folks pay finder's fees but since you are the one making the allegation, you need to provide some proof to back up your accusations.
That's what folks at Fornits do, in case you didn't notice. THey provide LINKS and even documentation from the source's own mouth (ala IZZY).
Why are you so desperate? Taking cheap shots at Cathy Sutton, and anyone else you can find to take the heat of someone who admitted in her own words SHE REFERS KIDS TO UNREGULATED PROGRAMS?
What are you NOT understanding? That Izzy doesn't honor the words of her own disclaimer? Sheesh!!!!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 30, 2007, 05:54:32 PM
Quote from: ""Just Curious""
BEWARE NON-PROFESSIONAL ADVICE By: Lon Woodbury
The private parent-choice industry for struggling teens has unfortunately attracted a number of people who see big and easy money in it. Perhaps the worst is the person who has a smooth telephone voice, and a sympathetic ear, pretending to be helping parents but in reality just helping him or herself at the expense of desperate, frightened and confused parents. For these people, desperate parents are seen as a "cash cow" to obtain money from programs for talking parents into enrolling their child into a cooperating program. This activity, sometimes called Finders Fee or kickbacks, is condemned as highly unethical by the Independent Educational Consultants Association (IECA) and the National Association for Therapeutic Schools and Programs (NATSAP), the professional organizations in this industry. The self-serving advice from these "referring Agencies" can do great harm to parents and the children.
Lon is a shrewd one. I'll give him that. Seems he has just jumped off the rocket to ruin.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on June 30, 2007, 05:57:18 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
true or false
Lon has agreed to give testimony with regard to SS? Expert testimony on her her practice and lack of qualifications.
Seems lots of people want to set the record straight so that the real truth on SS will be known by all.
My vote is true.
Lon and Sue have a long history of hating each-other.
Title: Re: why?? good question
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 05:59:02 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""Not Buyin' it""
why are you here?
because it's time something is done to stop the crap happening to these families!!!
Strange, that's what we're trying to do here. I wish somebody had stopped the crap that happened to my family as a result of my step daughter being sent to Peninsula Village. She suffered immensely there. We couldn't see her or talk to her for over six months. I'd like to stop that crap from happening to another family.
Zen Agent, It is a shock when you realize what happened to your child. I got the heads up from an article on Caica. Then a couple of months later, the pyschologist at the school called the police & Social Services. The school lied to the authorities then to the parents. One month latter, I received verification that it was true that a staff was having sex with at least one of the girls at the facility.
Major cover up! Many of the staff that were there at that time are gone now. There was a mass exoduse from the school. Makes me sick......
Title: Wellness Springs
Post by: Sidhe Shee on June 30, 2007, 06:23:14 PM
Went to the ISAC site, and Guest is right. Under Links To Other Sites Lorna Goldberg is one listed, go down further, and Wellness Springs Treatment Facility is listed, click onto their site and see.
Title: Re: Wellness Springs
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 06:41:02 PM
Quote from: ""Sidhe Shee""
Went to the ISAC site, and Guest is right. Under Links To Other Sites Lorna Goldberg is one listed, go down further, and Wellness Springs Treatment Facility is listed, click onto their site and see.
You remind me of that bufoon who used to post on Pueblo.
Look dufus, those are ANTI CULT resources.
Get it?
To help suvivors - not induct them into some program that pays finders fees.
Shame on your pathetic self for being so ignorant and DESPERATE.
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
Title: Re: Wellness Springs
Post by: Deborah on June 30, 2007, 06:42:18 PM
Quote from: ""Sidhe Shee""
Went to the ISAC site, and Guest is right. Under Links To Other Sites Lorna Goldberg is one listed, go down further, and Wellness Springs Treatment Facility is listed, click onto their site and see.
You aren't really attempting to compare a therapist and a 2-4 week 'cult recovery' retreat which is strictly voluntary and DOES NOT CONDONE INVOLUNTARY INTERVENTIONS, to the industry, are you?
Title: reply to ss
Post by: Bunnie on June 30, 2007, 06:44:12 PM
SS I went to the site, and I in no way saw the referal you mentioned, being a referral. It mentioned help by a licensed educated person, who dealt with cults and help for parents, as you have several postings about TB, and seem to have some knowledge of TB, it would seem you would know about the cult part. Just what is your axe to grind, this is off subject for this thread, maybe you should make a new thread for this subject.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sidhe Shee on June 30, 2007, 06:48:50 PM
Tell that to guest. I just went to see for myself. Also, there is another thread, I think I found it in Open Forums, or something like that. I don't remember cause I am new here. Sorry, or I would give you the actual name of the thread.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 07:09:08 PM
Another "off topic" posting that keeps coming up: Accusations about posts being "edited, moved around, or deleted" from this thread in the wee hours of the morning; and how these transgressions are being saved for litigation purposes. What a bunch of bullshit.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 07:30:17 PM
Sidhe Shee, you may be "new around here" but it's rather easy to recognize your postings, even when you don't sign in. BOLLOCK seems to be a favorite word of your's, doesn't it?
You used this "BOLLOCK" word in your posting on the WWASP thread, when you posted on the "TB Shutting Down Closed!" on June 29th at 3:51 PM, "That's a bunch of bollocks."
You also used this "BOLLOCK" word in your rambling posting on on this thread/topic on June 30 at 2:46 AM while giving your strange legal advice, and swiss bank account statement.
So, what's YOUR POINT? You must be a bit tired...all this posting, huh? BOLLOCK.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 07:47:17 PM
Lon Woodbury saying not to accept non-professional advice is like Hirohito saying not to blow yourself up in a plane.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 07:53:54 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
ISAC a Referral Free Zone, that you guys push, yet they refer to the sevices of Lorna Goldberg M.S.W.A.C.S.W for cults, and hang onto your seats kiddies, they also refer to Wellness Springs Retreat, specializing in cult recovery. And they are a referral free zone, and they are referring a facility? Oops!
It is a survivor run website. They're great people. It's referral free in the sense that ISAC receives absolutely ZERO $$$$$ from giving other survivors a few names of people they trust to help out with the deprogramming.
Now STFU and GBTW. ::both::
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 08:06:21 PM
Yes but you are attacking someone for saying they are referral free, yet you refer to a site that says referral free, and it's not referral free, and don't use samantics on me, otherwise say free referrals, and, you are also talking about referring to any programs, yet Isac refers to a facility. I thought the point was don't refer to facilities, and don't say you are referral free?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 08:09:49 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Sidhe Shee, you may be "new around here" but it's rather easy to recognize your postings, even when you don't sign in. BOLLOCK seems to be a favorite word of your's, doesn't it?
You used this "BOLLOCK" word in your posting on the WWASP thread, when you posted on the "TB Shutting Down Closed!" on June 29th at 3:51 PM, "That's a bunch of bollocks."
You also used this "BOLLOCK" word in your rambling posting on on this thread/topic on June 30 at 2:46 AM while giving your strange legal advice, and swiss bank account statement.
So, what's YOUR POINT? You must be a bit tired...all this posting, huh? BOLLOCK.
:rofl:
Title: Bollocks
Post by: Sidhe Shee on June 30, 2007, 08:12:28 PM
Didn't know someone had the market cornered on the word Bollocks, and several people have used it here.
Don't confuse me with some runaway know-it-all, I have better things to do.
oh, and Bollocks.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 08:25:34 PM
ISAC does not, has not, will not, would not refer to a FACILITY so you are the one playing with WORDS. IZZY has and does REFER parents to PROGRAMS for teens and to Scheff/PURE; and to unlicensed, unregulated escort/transport companpaies. STFU.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sidhe Shee on June 30, 2007, 08:26:17 PM
ha, ha, ha, that's what we do around here is use presupposition all the time. I use the word Dank because my daughter uses it, so I guess that means I am my daughter. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sidhe Shee on June 30, 2007, 08:28:43 PM
You know what, I just saw it, I don't really care. Use your own judgment.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 30, 2007, 08:30:57 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Lon Woodbury saying not to accept non-professional advice is like Hirohito saying not to blow yourself up in a plane.
Or Yamamoto saying, "Let's not get shot down by some P-38's today ok?"
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 08:31:15 PM
Got another THE WHO working: follow the drill, "ignore"
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sidhe Shee on June 30, 2007, 08:36:31 PM
:o :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 08:54:24 PM
Quote from: ""Sidhe Shee""
ha, ha, ha, that's what we do around here is use presupposition all the time. I use the word Dank because my daughter uses it, so I guess that means I am my daughter. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
TheWho returns. :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 08:56:56 PM
These types of threads always attract late-comer attention seekers. Like me, let me comment on what transpired days ago as if people are still discussing it.?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 09:00:31 PM
Yea and "I'm new around here SIDHE SHEE" is laughing at the "inside WHO joke." Don't you just love LIARS who expose themeselves? Seems like Izzy's postings all over.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 09:01:31 PM
I just want to know how much it would cost me to see Isabelle lick Sue's asshole?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on June 30, 2007, 09:13:14 PM
.50 cents max.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sidhe Shee on June 30, 2007, 09:25:10 PM
I was laughing at the Lon Woodbury joke, not my fault how these post or in what order, give it a rest
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2007, 09:27:47 PM
Is that who ....THE WHO is? I mean is it you know who. :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on July 01, 2007, 01:20:35 AM
The name is a joke - Sid He/She, Sid the she-male. It's as lame as the dumbass's comments. There's fear in the air - I've seen this shit from PV staff when I post info they'd really prefer not to see on Fornits. They come out screaming, hurling insults, then run out of steam. This latest batch of Iz-Sue paranoid blogs show they're imploding, Izzard's been reduced to writing verse a three year-old would wince at. They've been exposed, and the GAO is about to snap-on the latex gloves, grab a penlight, and start probing the dark and nasty industry.
Is it any wonder they're grasping at straws? I'm laughing my ass off at their feeble defenses and misguided attacks on the reputations of people with real integrity.
Go back to writing pre-school poetry on your blog and quit thrashing around here like an animal caught in a sawdust pit, you're only working your way in deeper with your lame efforts. What do you hope to accomplish? Are we suddenly going to say, "Wow, these nimrods are right - I love ALL the fucking programs, what have I been thinking? Shit, I'll go wake up my girl and tell her we were wrong, she's going back to PV,"
You're wasting your time, Izmo, and you should probably be more worried about covering your ass (it'll take a circus tent) and looking into future employment. Given your obvious preoccupation with eating, I suggest a job in food services.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 02, 2007, 11:37:35 AM
ZEN, it appears that Izzy took your advice; and E X P A N D E D her little DISCLAIMER!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Wile E Coyote on July 02, 2007, 11:53:54 AM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
The name is a joke - Sid He/She, Sid the she-male. It's as lame as the dumbass's comments. There's fear in the air - I've seen this shit from PV staff when I post info they'd really prefer not to see on Fornits. They come out screaming, hurling insults, then run out of steam. This latest batch of Iz-Sue paranoid blogs show they're imploding, Izzard's been reduced to writing verse a three year-old would wince at. They've been exposed, and the GAO is about to snap-on the latex gloves, grab a penlight, and start probing the dark and nasty industry.
Is it any wonder they're grasping at straws? I'm laughing my ass off at their feeble defenses and misguided attacks on the reputations of people with real integrity.
Go back to writing pre-school poetry on your blog and quit thrashing around here like an animal caught in a sawdust pit, you're only working your way in deeper with your lame efforts. What do you hope to accomplish? Are we suddenly going to say, "Wow, these nimrods are right - I love ALL the fucking programs, what have I been thinking? Shit, I'll go wake up my girl and tell her we were wrong, she's going back to PV,"
You're wasting your time, Izmo, and you should probably be more worried about covering your ass (it'll take a circus tent) and looking into future employment. Given your obvious preoccupation with eating, I suggest a job in food services.
Agreed.
But there's no need to insult Eddie by using his surname when referring to Fizzy.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sidhe Shee on July 02, 2007, 12:28:01 PM
Sidhe and Shee are both the same name, which losely translated means "a sprit whose wailing predicts death."
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on July 02, 2007, 12:34:58 PM
It also translates as "dot head." :rofl:
Title: Oh will you look at this... oi
Post by: psy on July 02, 2007, 12:36:05 PM
Funny quote #1 " CAICA warns against hiring transport companies who pick children up in the middle of the night, taking them from their beds without pre-warning from parents and without their consent. The effects on a child or teen can be traumatic and last a lifetime."
Funny quote #2" " Parent and teen coaching is becoming popular. It is less costly and has proven beneficial in helping to work through family issues that seemed insurmountable. Coaching often can have very immediate results and has worked to help keep many families together who otherwise might have been torn apart. There is a major cost benefit as well. Sending a child away is extremely costly."
Interestingly enough, she rattles a copyright sabre in her disclaimer but portions of her warning signs (http://http://www.caica.org/Warning%20signs.htm) are copied VERBATIM off ISAC (http://http://www.isaccorp.org/warningsigns.asp).
Granted, a lot of the information she posts on her site is useful and insightful. She just didn't write it (apart from the plugs for her coaching service). She is using the hard work or others to promote herself, and her own agenda, which, among other things, is protecting the reputation of the schools Sue refers to (in my opinion).
------
In other news, her new disclaimer is hilarious.. a portion of which i'll quote here "None of the contributors, sponsors, administrators or anyone else connected with this website in any way whatsoever can be responsible for the appearance of any inaccurate or libelous information or for your use of the information contained in these web pages."
Wow! I didn't know I could defame others and get away with it merely by posting a disclaimer! Amazing!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 02, 2007, 12:36:21 PM
BOLLOCKS!!!!!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on July 02, 2007, 12:36:39 PM
Quote from: ""Sidhe Shee""
Sidhe and Shee are both the same name, which losely translated means "a sprit whose wailing predicts death."
Irish?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on July 02, 2007, 12:39:05 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Sidhe Shee""
Sidhe and Shee are both the same name, which losely translated means "a sprit whose wailing predicts death."
Irish?
:idea: Yeah, could be Gaelic...
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on July 02, 2007, 12:46:57 PM
from wikipedia:
"Banshee or bean sídhe, simply means "woman of the Sídhe", however the term has come to specifically indicate the supernatural women of Ireland who announce an oncoming death by their wailing and keening."
Sidhe is pronounced "shee".
I lived in Ireland. I thought I recognized it.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 02, 2007, 12:48:20 PM
Why would anyone like Izzy want to own a website that "...does not endorse the accuracy or reliability of any of the information or content?" Why bother reading something that Izzy admits upfront may not be accurate or reliable information? She uses this DISCLAIMER for her website, and those disgraceful BLOGS.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on July 02, 2007, 12:49:42 PM
Ah, the Emerald Isle.. *sigh* :rofl:
How long were y'there, Lad? ::bwahaha::
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 02, 2007, 12:51:32 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Why would anyone like Izzy want to own a website that "...does not endorse the accuracy or reliability of any of the information or content?" Why bother reading something that Izzy admits upfront may not be accurate or reliable information? She uses this DISCLAIMER for her website, and those disgraceful BLOGS.
I am sure I am not the only one who has read through the blogs to find the overt disclaimer at the end, only to think, oh... so everything I just read was 100% bullshit, okay... the disclaimers are like a big sign saying "I AM LYING".
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on July 02, 2007, 12:52:51 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Ah, the Emerald Isle.. *sigh* :rofl:
How long were y'there, Lad? ::bwahaha::
Three years, until my parents got the brilliant idea (through a State Dept Ed-con) to send me to Benchmark (which was supposed to be a "boarding school")
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on July 02, 2007, 12:54:10 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Why would anyone like Izzy want to own a website that "...does not endorse the accuracy or reliability of any of the information or content?" Why bother reading something that Izzy admits upfront may not be accurate or reliable information? She uses this DISCLAIMER for her website, and those disgraceful BLOGS.
Well. IANAL but I am pretty damn sure you can't just post a disclaimer saying "i am not responsible for libelous information etc." and be somehow immune from a lawsuit.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Bunnie on July 02, 2007, 12:57:38 PM
Quote
I am sure I am not the only one who has read through the blogs to find the overt disclaimer at the end, only to think, oh... so everything I just read was 100% bullshit, okay... the disclaimers are like a big sign saying "I AM LYING".
Oh so now I get the photos on the blog with ,Pinocchio, and Deville.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 02, 2007, 12:57:48 PM
Because I really don't feel like reading endless pages about this, is this the gist of things? Someone created a persona to test Izzy out and see if she would refer a parent to a program and/or transport company. Izzy did as suspected and referred the person to either Sue, who then provided a referral to a program or, Izzy directly referred them. No?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on July 02, 2007, 12:58:59 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Ah, the Emerald Isle.. *sigh* :rofl:
How long were y'there, Lad? ::bwahaha::
Three years, until my parents got the brilliant idea (through a State Dept Ed-con) to send me to Benchmark (which was supposed to be a "boarding school")
Whereabouts did you live there and which spot was your favorite? I'd like to make it (in more ways than one, of course) there someday myself..
Title: Re: Oh will you look at this... oi
Post by: ZenAgent on July 02, 2007, 01:03:51 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Damn, Psy, I've been hiding my ass behind one for a while. It's good enough for the Izguana, it's good enough for me. I started using it after she deleted my comment on her blog and muttered that crap about my comments bordering on defamation, blah, blah, blah...The woman is highly sensitive to what she perceives as libelous against her, and absolutely clueless to her own use of libel and defamation against her many, many enemies. That's right, Iz. You're not paranoid, there ARE Fornits people in the walls. Listen, they're all laughing at you....
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on July 02, 2007, 01:04:04 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Because I really don't feel like reading endless pages about this, is this the gist of things? Someone created a persona to test Izzy out and see if she would refer a parent to a program and/or transport company. Izzy did as suspected and referred the person to either Sue, who then provided a referral to a program or, Izzy directly referred them. No?
The first 9-10 pages of the thread explain most of what has happened (before, some oddly timed guest posters showed up to derail the thread), but basically, yes, you are correct. Isabelle referred to an unlicensed, escort service that works with WWASP. She also referred to PURE. The parent, from the beginning, "played dumb" to simulate what would actually happen if it was a real parent. The parent, in the beginning was not looking for a replacement program, she was looking for a boarding school. Sandy talked Patti into considering a program, and suggested talking to Izzy to get a recommendation to a good program. Izzy then gave out the number to Pure, and the escort service. Any other questions? I'm sure there are some that haven't yet been answered.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 02, 2007, 01:06:54 PM
Thanks.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on July 02, 2007, 01:07:59 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Whereabouts did you live there and which spot was your favorite?
Donneybrook (a suburb of Dublin)
Favorite spot: Temple Bar... lots of cool people and stuff to do.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on July 02, 2007, 01:13:41 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Because I really don't feel like reading endless pages about this, is this the gist of things? Someone created a persona to test Izzy out and see if she would refer a parent to a program and/or transport company. Izzy did as suspected and referred the person to either Sue, who then provided a referral to a program or, Izzy directly referred them. No?
Reader's Digest version... my choice picks from the thread (just the meat):
Correspondence: http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/files/Patti.zip (http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/files/Patti.zip) Final Letter From isabelle: http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=264362#264362 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=264362#264362) Information on the Escort service http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=264830#264830 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=264830#264830) (notice immediately after, Izzy emailed me, and a trusted technical third party, my (old) home address she most likely had on file from trekkers)
It is highly suspected that Sue Scheff and/or Isabelle Zehnder have posted in this thread. When "subpoena" was idly mentioned, the guest posting stopped.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 02, 2007, 01:26:18 PM
Thanks again.
Un fucking believable, these two.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sidhe Shee on July 02, 2007, 01:42:34 PM
Yes Psy, Irish. The name I post under came from the Galic language.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sidhe Shee on July 02, 2007, 01:44:14 PM
Psy, where in Ireland? My family is from all around the Dublin Area.
Edit: Forget that, just saw where you were.
Yup, Temple Bar is the bomb.
Edit again: You wouldn't believe it to go back now and see how much it's changed. They're building like mad, and Dublin is full of immigrants from all over. It's insane. And the murder rate is up, which is pretty scary. It almost makes me not want to go back. But enough of my ramblings, back to the izzyfest.
Edited again: I only remember editing 2x's, but now makes 3, yet it will say 4 before I am done.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on July 02, 2007, 01:50:03 PM
Quote from: ""Sidhe Shee""
Psy, where in Ireland? My family is from all around the Dublin Area.
Donnybrook, Dublin 14. Morehampton road... Just across from a little grocery store called "donnybrook fair"
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 02, 2007, 01:52:52 PM
Where's that pic showing Ms.Piggy side by side with Izzy? Anyone kind enough to repost?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on July 02, 2007, 02:11:46 PM
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sidhe Shee on July 03, 2007, 12:29:16 AM
It's a pub, and as I recall, I think they started serving pub food, but didn't make a pitstop last time there. But I did get a chance to drop into the the BBI.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 03, 2007, 01:42:32 AM
LOL now izzy is writing a blog about PARENT POLICE?
Either she hasn't finished writing it, or she deleted it soon after posting. If the latter is the case, I would appreciate it if somebody could email me a copy or post it here (if they have it archived).
Every time I see one of her new blogs, I archive it. I would recommend anybody else do the same. I'll post what I have if she makes information dissappear, but i'm only one set of eyes. I'd appreciate it of other people could help out by either saving the page, or printing to a PDF.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 05, 2007, 12:55:08 PM
It's up now.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 05, 2007, 02:26:58 PM
How many "different ways" can Izzy say she doesn't refer children to programs or to teen escorts services; when SHE DID refer to Sue at PURE, and SHE DID refer to Sunrise Adolescent Transport; and she did admit that SHE arranged the placement of a child in some still un-named program? Is anyone else bewildered by these continuous blogs? And who writes their own blogs; and then slaps a disclaimer on their own words? Doesn't that appear to be saying, "I just wrote all that, but don't believe me?"
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 05, 2007, 02:29:09 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
How many "different ways" can Izzy say she doesn't refer children to programs or to teen escorts services; when SHE DID refer to Sue at PURE, and SHE DID refer to Sunrise Adolescent Transport; and she did admit that SHE arranged the placement of a child in some still un-named program? Is anyone else bewildered by these continuous blogs?
No, we all know how full of shit she is.
Quote
And who writes their own blogs; and then slaps a disclaimer on their own words? Doesn't that appear to be saying, "I just wrote all that, but don't believe me?"
Fat assed Izzy who can't keep up with all the changes she needs to make after reading all the posts over here.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 05, 2007, 02:51:46 PM
Quote
This is a buyer beware market. There are no Federal laws in place to protect children who are placed into such programs. There is no governmental oversight.
The above is from her parentpolice blog.
Here is my question for Izzie:
How can you make that statement and then turn around and advocate on behalf of PURE and Scheff?
Do you realize that when and if the industry ever becomes regulated people like Scheff will be put out of business? Why? Because she doesn't have the education and training (credentials) to recommend programs. Sure she had a bad experience with WWASP but that doesn't mean she is qualified to determine what a good program is.
What she is doing is dangerous. She is just another example of why the industry needs to be regulated. She is selling a false since of security to parents. It is wrong and it needs to be stoped.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on July 05, 2007, 02:53:54 PM
Just out of curiosity, what "credentials" do Scheff (and Zhender, while we're at it) claim to have?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 05, 2007, 02:59:55 PM
That's just it, they don't have any.
They are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 05, 2007, 03:27:35 PM
This is a buyer beware market. There are no Federal laws in place to protect children who are placed into such programs. There is no governmental oversight
Quote
*BUYER BEWARE*
Beware my friend of promises made By those who claim they'll come to your aid.
It's the Wilderness Programs I'm speaking of--- But Only those that exclude trust and love.
They tell you exactly what you want to hear When you're desperate and wondering which way to steer.
They promise to take our children and teach them to cope And provide them with tools that will give courage and hope.
Many thousands of dollars you'll have to pay--- But the brochure is convincing that this is the way.
And it's true; I believe that the concept is good But they must replace greed with love - would they could.
Mother Nature's a great teacher but there must be a guide One there to lead---who'll show comfort and not chide.
So the plight of our children is not a living hell--- Those counselors must know the wilderness and counseling as well.
And they must have help available and close by So no more Michelle's and Kristen's will die.
With no regulations or guidelines to use They can do as they please and have been known to abuse.
Yes, Mother Nature's Wilderness beauty abounds And valuable teaching out there can be found---
But let these programs be run by people who care Who will truly look after our child's welfare?
So "buyer beware" Take warning Take heed Of those programs merely inspired by greed.
And speak out those of you who know of the wrongs--- Please don't keep it inside For the sake of all children who unknowingly come And for the sake of those who died!
Written By: Sharon Fuqua Mother of Kristen Chase
Another of Izzy's material borrowed. Mayhap she read what Mrs. Fuqua was saying. .......Watch out for fake advocates.[/quote]
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 05, 2007, 04:01:41 PM
Buyer beware has been used by many and is very common in this industry.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 05, 2007, 04:32:26 PM
Program Participant and/or Client hereby represents to kids helping kids, a pathway family center that Client has an indicated condition of drug abuse and/or dependency on mood altering drugs and that admission to the kids helping kids, a pathway family center program is appropriate and desirable. ....
VIRGINIA (September 9, 2006) The "wolves in sheep's clothing" begin with the self-described "parent resource experts" and self-described advocates. "No one is federally regulating or reigning in these businesses," claims Shelby Earnshaw, who operates International Survivor's Action Committee.
Please note, these are resources that have been helpful to me and that you may find useful but that does not mean I endorse or agree with everything (or in some cases, anything!) on them. Almost certainly, I've accidentally left some great stuff out, so please email if you see something you think should be included. And, as we say online, your mileage may vary! Caveat emptor (let the buyer beware!)
We, at PURE, give you these factual stories to make you aware of how false advertising and misrepresentation of program/schools can truly be detrimental to a child. With the influx of Internet Spamdexing, you need to be aware when you continuously find the same group under "every" search term and under many URL's. That is a huge RED FLAG that we caution all parents about. Another RED FLAG is if you are asked to pay another party other then the school or program you have chosen. This could mean you are paying more then the other parents that go directly to the school. PURE's stresses, "Buyer's Beware," these are your children.
Many of today’s parents are paralyzed in fear that their children will make all the wrong choices and will end up on drugs or worse, will end up dead. Why have so many turned to the Internet for help, and why have they allowed complete strangers with no expertise or credentials to evaluate their child via a questionnaire on the Internet?
Buyer's Beware! These are all WWASPS affiliated sites:
This is a list of sites that advertise wwasps programs... All the information I list here is public information... No need for anybody to get in a hubbub about it...
Here is an interesting document out of the mouth of Sue Scheff, on the CACA site
Fraud, misrepresentation, combined with a vulnerable parent can lead to danger for a child in my opinion.
hope my experiences have saved parents from making the mistake I made in desperation. I am sharing my personal experiences to create awareness about the misrepresentation and fraud I endured. This story was not written out of malice against WWASP (World Wide Association of Specialty Programs), it was written for the principle and morals that they lacked. I think they call it "Accountability". I am accountable for what I have written as being the truth as I experienced it.Some interesting Quotes out of the mouth of Sue, through Izzy.
Well here you got it folks, right out of the horses mouth ::nose::
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 10, 2007, 10:54:47 AM
Strange how Sue Scheff can talk about the "misreprenstation and fraud she experienced" by having her daughter referred to what she claims was an abusive WWASP facility in which she placed her daughter--------
YET, when Joyce Harris makes the SAME COMPLAINT: that her daughter was referred to an abusive facility--Whitmore Academy, by Sue Scheff/PURE; this parent received a "cease and desist letter" from Scheff' attorney, David Pollack, which is posted on the ISAC website.
Joyce Harris has also been attacked in the "Whitmore Blogs" written by Sue Scheff and Isabelle Zehnder; which are filled with hearsay, allegations, gossip, cartoon character representations of her, etc which are followed by lenghty disclaimers by both Scheff and Zehnder to hold them irresponsible for publishing such attacks.
It does not appear that Ms. Scheff accepts that all citizens are entitled to the same rights she claims and demands for herself.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on July 10, 2007, 11:03:43 AM
Sue Scheff treats everyone on a sliding scale.
The top of the scale represents the most money she can make off a person.
The bottom of the scale represents the people she can't make any money off of at all.
You threaten the cheddar train and she comes a swinging.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on July 10, 2007, 11:56:20 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Strange how Sue Scheff can talk about the "misreprenstation and fraud she experienced" by having her daughter referred to what she claims was an abusive WWASP facility in which she placed her daughter--------
YET, when Joyce Harris makes the SAME COMPLAINT: that her daughter was referred to an abusive facility--Whitmore Academy, by Sue Scheff/PURE; this parent received a "cease and desist letter" from Scheff' attorney, David Pollack, which is posted on the ISAC website.
Joyce Harris has also been attacked in the "Whitmore Blogs" written by Sue Scheff and Isabelle Zehnder; which are filled with hearsay, allegations, gossip, cartoon character representations of her, etc which are followed by lenghty disclaimers by both Scheff and Zehnder to hold them irresponsible for publishing such attacks.
It does not appear that Ms. Scheff accepts that all citizens are entitled to the same rights she claims and demands for herself.
Scheff got the cheddar train rolling by attacking WWASP, and even her die-hard Scheff supporters lost faith when they realized it was strictly business for Sue, not compassion for kids in abusive WWASP programs. Scheff plays off the "hero mom" image she invented for herself - she beat the evil WWASP, so she must refer only to the safest and most caring programs.
Bullshit. Sue's a WWASP competitor, nothing more. At the start of PURE she referred to the bastards, which should give you some idea where the woman's head is - up her ass.
Scheff's playing the "hero mom" card again, since the allegation of a brutal physical attack by Scheff on her daughter has been brought to light again. Nowhere have I seen Scheff deny the attack, she only writes "we had some trying times". I've had some trying times, but I didn't resort to the goon hand tactics Sue "reportedly" used.
Sue recently blogged about the alleged assault: "Personally, I let it go - but when it reaches to my kids, it is completely different."Let it go??? Sue, you sued a woman for criticizing you and received an $11.4 million judgment. Is that your idea of letting it go?
Scheff's dragged her daughter into it, too, you can read her blog which was apparently started in order to quash the assault story and pimp her mom's book. Read Ashlyn's blog, then look back at Scheff's - looks like the same writer, and Ashlyn's blog reads like a lame troll post.
During the WWASP vs. PURE trial Scheff made a motion to keep the "reported" physical assault from being used, as it could prejudice the jury. WWASP objected, claiming Scheff had already written publicly about her daughter's experience at Carolina Springs, essentially using the girl for marketing PURE. The Judge agreed with WWASP, but limited what could be discussed about Scheff's personal family life to her daughter's experience with Carolina Springs.
All these attempts by Sue at damage control, the lawsuits, the pleas for people to leave her family out of this, are hollow. She's raked a Whitmore parent over the coals with allegations that go beyond libel and defamation into the realm of perverse speculation. Scheff's attack on the Whitmore parent is a fear-based, loathsome attempt at saving her ass. Sue has had no regard for the truth, which she thinks she has a monopoly on. If the truth prevails, Sue and PURE will be a bad memory.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 10, 2007, 12:26:12 PM
Sue Scheff's memory about truth does seem to be lacking. Sue Scheff lied when she told people she had a police report that "proved" Joyce Harris threw her daughter down the stairs at Whitmore Academy. At the time Sue Scheff and Mark Sudweeks were was spreading this lie, no police report had been written; as reported by Shelby Earnshaw at ISAC:
"Additional Comments from the Director of ISAC, posted on February 2005: http://www.isaccorp.or/documentsnz.asp#whitmore (http://www.isaccorp.or/documentsnz.asp#whitmore)
The police report by Nephi Police Officer, Wright proves that Joyce Harris displayed no abusive actions what-so-ever the night her daughter was picked up at Whitmore Academy.
Sue Scheff has gone to great lenghts to suppress these allegations of her physical attack agaiinst her daughter; and there is no evidence that Scheff has out-right denied such an attack against her daughter.
Perhaps Sue Scheff might at least show some compassion for children by not write and tell lies about them.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 10, 2007, 12:43:47 PM
clearly she has no commasion. how could you expect anything more?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 10, 2007, 12:46:56 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Sue Scheff's memory about truth does seem to be lacking. Sue Scheff lied when she told people she had a police report that "proved" Joyce Harris threw her daughter down the stairs at Whitmore Academy. At the time Sue Scheff and Mark Sudweeks were was spreading this lie, no police report had been written; as reported by Shelby Earnshaw at ISAC:
"Additional Comments from the Director of ISAC, posted on February 2005: http://www.isaccorp.or/documentsnz.asp#whitmore (http://www.isaccorp.or/documentsnz.asp#whitmore)
The police report by Nephi Police Officer, Wright proves that Joyce Harris displayed no abusive actions what-so-ever the night her daughter was picked up at Whitmore Academy.
Sue Scheff has gone to great lenghts to suppress these allegations of her physical attack agaiinst her daughter; and there is no evidence that Scheff has out-right denied such an attack against her daughter.
Perhaps Sue Scheff might at least show some compassion for children by not write and tell lies about them.
Christ, do these people tell the truth about anything? Even Izzy doesn't live up to her own disclaimer about not referring kids. How fucking pathetic is that?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 11, 2007, 11:04:36 PM
Zen, I looked at the blogs by Scheff's daughter, and could not agree with you more. I wonder if this is a marketing ploy of some kind? The blogs really do have a "cloned" feel and look to them.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on July 11, 2007, 11:22:05 PM
I think it's an ass covering ploy, and it's not working. There's too much ass exposed and not enough BS to cover it.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 11, 2007, 11:25:52 PM
JH was here.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 11, 2007, 11:38:31 PM
Scheff does seem to be behind these Ashlyn Scheff blogs. The first blog was "Posted by Sue Scheff at 6:25 AM" and the second blog was "Posted by Sue Scheff at 8:29 AM" Is this possibly a ploy by Scheff to promote her book; and possibly a way to continue the cover-up Scheff's reported alleged child abuse against her daughter?
If Sue Scheff never abused her daughter, why doesn't she simply deny the accusations; and why are there court documents suppressing such intormation? It may simply be hearsay, and gossip; but questions are being asked and people are wondering: "does this mother have some secret she doesn't want exposed?" "Why doesn't Scheff deny these allegations of abuse?" "Could some documents possiblly show up that could reveal this alleged abuse?"
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on July 11, 2007, 11:48:31 PM
links to Ashlyn's blogs would be nice.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 12, 2007, 12:07:44 AM
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on July 12, 2007, 12:36:03 AM
Ashlyn's blog:
Quote
Recently I visited a Therapeutic Boarding School and was so shocked to realize what a "real" program is like. You see, after what happened to me, my mother decided that if she could prevent others from going through the same experiences we did, it would give our negative time a positive purpose. I know, it sounds stupid, but I am 22 years old now and I am finally starting to understand what she went through and more important, what I put her through! But that didn't give Carolina Springs Academy (WWASPS) the right to do what they did to us!
Sue's Blog:
Quote
When I posted my story (above website) I was immediately under attack by the very people that I believed harmed my daughter and defrauded me, the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASP aka WWASPS). They sued me in an attempt to silence me and eliminate my website from the internet. After 2+ years of litigation and approximately $1 million in legal fees (which I was fortunate to have my insurance cover most of it) I defeated WWASPS in a jury trial in their home state of Utah. They appealed and I went on to defeat them again in the Supreme Court of Appeals in June 2006
Something about the context and style seems so similiar. I'll look at it more later, but the highlighted similarites seem to stand out the quickest for me at the moment.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 12, 2007, 01:40:13 AM
SS was here, again. ::puke::
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on July 12, 2007, 09:06:03 AM
Scheff, are you treading about? Remember the hassle your anonymous and fake personae caused during the WWASP trial? Judge Cassell thought you were a flake, and you were told to post only under your real name if it pertained to...anything like this, really.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 12, 2007, 10:37:40 AM
tsw was here
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 12, 2007, 11:14:35 AM
Seems like it may be possible that perhaps Izzy's friend didn'texplain to her that posting and pretending to be diffenrent people posting like that does upset Judges, huh Zen Agent? But Izzy claims to have a vast prior successful legal career, so she probably knows that already.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on July 12, 2007, 11:58:02 AM
.....
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 12, 2007, 12:31:30 PM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
Yo! She bitch.. not sue either.
Enjoy and don't your fake tits knock your fucking yellowed up teeth out.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on July 12, 2007, 01:23:09 PM
......
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 12, 2007, 01:47:36 PM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
Don't be coy. I know people in Texas aren't even that stupid. Or has all the silicone in your tits rotted your brain?
:flame:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 12, 2007, 02:22:29 PM
tsw was here
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on July 12, 2007, 02:33:06 PM
.....
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 12, 2007, 02:34:04 PM
I willingly abused kids. I am fat.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 13, 2007, 01:53:07 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Seems like it may be possible that perhaps Izzy's friend didn'texplain to her that posting and pretending to be diffenrent people posting like that does upset Judges, huh Zen Agent? But Izzy claims to have a vast prior successful legal career, so she probably knows that already.
just like the whole foods ceo.. :rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 17, 2007, 11:30:19 AM
Hi Isabelle!
The earth needs more people like you, it'd be a much better place! I'm so glad we got to actually meet!!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 21, 2007, 06:31:56 PM
Bump for the person asking what evidence exists that Isabelle Zehnder refers to programs.
It's all here - in her own words no less.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on July 21, 2007, 08:24:42 PM
I have sent Isabelle THREE emails now telling her to take my comment and name OFF all of her websites, so far she has not done so. I would think if a person has any integrity, they would not purposely use what they do not have permission to use to promote themselves.
She did try to get us to use a transport company to bring my stepdaughter back to the States from TB. I'm reading back through all the emails for the transport company name. Of course, we did NOT use any transport company.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 21, 2007, 08:38:04 PM
Sandy, you may do not be able to hope for confidentialty or integrity from Izzy. Hope you will disclose the name of the transport company she tried to refer your family to. Save those emails, or you may be called a "liar."
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on July 21, 2007, 08:42:26 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Sandy, you may do not be able to hope for confidentialty or integrity from Izzy. Hope you will disclose the name of the transport company she tried to refer your family to. Save those emails, or you may be called a "liar."
Oh, I have EVERY email she ever sent me and I am going to read back through them to find the name of the transport company. It'll take me awhile since there are so many emails but I will disclose the name when I find it.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 21, 2007, 08:55:59 PM
IMO,
Izzy and the word "integrity" do not go together. Just ask Catherine Sutton who had to go so far as to demand Izzy remove her daughter's name and picture from her website when she learned of Izzy's relationship with Sue Scheff and Gayle Palmer DeGraff (the woman responsible for Suttons' daughter's tortuous death in a wilderness therapy program).
Shame on you Isabelle. You are beneath contempt using people without their permission, knowledge or conset to further your self-serving agenda.
Don't play coy. We know you read your email as often as you apparently read Fornits which is at least once a day.
:rofl:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on July 22, 2007, 10:47:01 AM
Well goddam, seems this forum has been instrumental in letting the fat cat out of the bag, so to speak...
It certainly is great to see a liar exposed & the truth come to light!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2007, 04:54:02 PM
Sandy, I hope you post the emails.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2007, 08:29:39 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Sandy, I hope you post the emails.
Seconded.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on July 23, 2007, 12:04:09 AM
Haven't found the name of the transport company yet, I'm beginning to think Isabelle said it in one of the many phone calls. I know she mentioned a company & a man's name, one that she claimed she had done business with in the past and trusted. Below is part of an email, due to not wanting to disclose family names, I have altered their names but that was it.
____________________________________________________________ {We have all discussed the situation and have come up with a plan we'd like to run by you. When you ask the judge for "C" to bring "D" back into this country is there any way we can ask that she be transported, at "C"'s expense, by a transport company of my choosing (I work with these companies that transport kids in and out of Jamaica) and that I be appointed "D"s Advocate and Temporary Guarding from the time she lands in Texas from Jamaica until the hearing. } ____________________________________________________________ Thank God that we didn't use the transport company and did not give Isabelle "guardianship". A totally crazy time.
She has threatened me with her "lawyers" since I demanded she take my Myspace comment off her websites. I say "bring it on". Anything I post, I can/will back up. Most everyone here knows my "family situation" so if she posts what should have been confidential, it's actually already open record and public info. Anyone has access if they want to dig.
Title: Sandy ARE YOUR PANTS ON FIRE???
Post by: Anonymous on July 23, 2007, 12:13:50 AM
Sandy, This is crap and you know it. Isabelle does not refer to programs or transport companies.
You are inventing this to cover up the fact that you have been through the emails and there is not one that refers you to a transport co.
Tell how "D" was brought back to the states.
Title: Re: Sandy ARE YOUR PANTS ON FIRE???
Post by: Sandy on July 23, 2007, 12:18:07 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Sandy, This is crap and you know it. Isabelle does not refer to programs or transport companies.
You are inventing this to cover up the fact that you have been through the emails and there is not one that refers you to a transport co.
Tell how "D" was brought back to the states.
Isabelle, You want answers, post under your name and NOT "guest". I have not "invented" anything, it's in your email you sent to me. Until you have the guts to post under your own name, don't ask me questions. I don't answer "guest" questions, which I have previously states weeks ago.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 23, 2007, 12:26:40 AM
Why would Sandy lie? Sandy just posted part of the email. It seems that Sandy has the right to use initials to protect the identity of her family, doesn't it?
Isabelle Zehnder posted Sandy's private emails in her "Who Is Patti Atwoods?" blog, seemingly without Sandy's permission.
Isabelle Zehnder is now threatening Sandy with her "lawyers?" Why can't Zehnder honor Sandy's request, and remove the material from CAICA?
Stand your ground, Sandy. Not everyone is afraid of Izzy's legal threats, are they?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 23, 2007, 12:28:34 AM
Izzy does refer to programs and to transports companies. GIVE IT UP IZZY!!!!!!!!!!! Time to name names?
Title: response
Post by: Anonymous on July 23, 2007, 12:29:27 AM
Sandy, I'm not Isabelle. I am a board member of CAICA. I am well aware of what transpired during the crisis your family experienced.
I didn't ask you a question. I made the statement for you to tell how "D" was transported to the states. No question.
You can't find the email because there was not one.
The only time Isabelle has referred a transport co was to get the child OUT of a facility!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on July 23, 2007, 12:29:38 AM
Quote from: ""Sandy""
Haven't found the name of the transport company yet, I'm beginning to think Isabelle said it in one of the many phone calls. I know she mentioned a company & a man's name, one that she claimed she had done business with in the past and trusted. Below is part of an email, due to not wanting to disclose family names, I have altered their names but that was it.
____________________________________________________________ {We have all discussed the situation and have come up with a plan we'd like to run by you. When you ask the judge for "C" to bring "D" back into this country is there any way we can ask that she be transported, at "C"'s expense, by a transport company of my choosing (I work with these companies that transport kids in and out of Jamaica) and that I be appointed "D"s Advocate and Temporary Guarding from the time she lands in Texas from Jamaica until the hearing. } ____________________________________________________________ Thank God that we didn't use the transport company and did not give Isabelle "guardianship". A totally crazy time.
She has threatened me with her "lawyers" since I demanded she take my Myspace comment off her websites. I say "bring it on". Anything I post, I can/will back up. Most everyone here knows my "family situation" so if she posts what should have been confidential, it's actually already open record and public info. Anyone has access if they want to dig.
She threatened you with LAWYERS!?!? On what grounds?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on July 23, 2007, 12:36:40 AM
The last email that transpired. Isabelle needs to get a grip and post under her own name. No one else would know things that she knows. ____________________________________________________
No, you have ignored my requests and never said you were removing anything. You, yourself, should know what all websites you post your stuff on. This needs to be off all of them.
Thanks
Isabelle Zehnder wrote: As I have told you, it has been removed from Positive Family Solutions. I've asked you to let me know if it is posted somewhere else.
I was copy/pasting the e-mails to/from Patti in My Space and accidentally hit "Reply". It wasn't intended to do anything to you and I was not threatening to post it. I don't understand the position you've taken, and I have never tried to take all credit for anything. In fact, who have I told about D? I've kept this very quiet, it's not my fault they got into your e-mails and figured out who D was.
Fact is I spent 5 months helping the family and money I couldn't afford on phone bills, etc. because I wanted to help D The family was headstrong about leaving her there and it wasn't until I talked to ____that she finally agreed to pay the lawyer to get her out.
I thought you were my friend and I am sorry that you have taken this the wrong way. I do NOT refer kids to transport companies. I was asked for name of the transport company that another mother used to fly to Jamaica, meet the family (Patti's), drive them to TB, and back to the airport. It was nothing short of a glorified taxi. She told me they did not want to use Jamaican drivers and had plenty of money. I believed her. I had no reason to check the transport company out because he wasn't transporting the child alone, but rather the family.
I don't refer kids to programs and only once did a child come through CAICA to Sue because we were in a position where the judge was ordering the kid to another program. Our choice was leave the kid in TB or find another option. I don't refer to programs and the only person I thought I could trust was Sue.
At this point frankly I have no idea who I can trust.
I'm sorry you have turned your back on me, I thought we were true friends.
I have previously requested that the myspace comment that I posted be removed from ALL your websites. You did not have permission to use that or post ANY of the emails that transpired.
I had previously stated that you helped in MEDIATING in that situation. With or without your mediation, we would have still brought her home. It amazes me that you take full credit for everything/anything that you try to do.
But in all honesty, which I have not disclosed, you did try to use a transport service. I did not choose you and quick frankly, after reading tons of info on the internet, I do NOT want to be associated with anyone that does refer/use programs/transport services OR associates with Sue Scheff/PURE or any of the other crap.
Not sure WHY you would email me what you did tonight. Are you threatening to post more on the internet or what? I very strongly advise against doing so. I, also, have recourse that you are not aware of and I will also start posting on the internet if that's the route you choose to go.
Once again, please remove any posting/email that even remotely has to do with my family. Thanks
_________________________________________________
I will speak to some attorney friends this next week if Isabelle does not remove ALL the free promotion she's using my myspace comment for. She has removed some, but not all.
Title: Re: response
Post by: Sandy on July 23, 2007, 12:39:26 AM
Quote from: ""Not Buyin' it""
Sandy, I'm not Isabelle. I am a board member of CAICA. I am well aware of what transpired during the crisis your family experienced.
I didn't ask you a question. I made the statement for you to tell how "D" was transported to the states. No question.
You can't find the email because there was not one.
The only time Isabelle has referred a transport co was to get the child OUT of a facility!
Oh? You're a "Board Member"??? What is your name? Didn't think that existed. IF you are an actual person, board members stand behind their own name. Ask away, ONCE you identify yourself.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: nimdA on July 23, 2007, 12:43:14 AM
lols.. this is getting better than a fish fry with some watermelon and 'shine.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on July 23, 2007, 12:49:49 AM
Anyways, "Not Buyin It" aka Isabelle, how many OTHER names are you posting under besides GUEST? I recognize many of the posts as yours. If you don't have the guts to own up to what you write, don't write it to begin with. People know your posts anyways, you are not fooling anyone.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on July 23, 2007, 12:50:31 AM
Hey Isabelle... I find your treatment of Sandy somewhat unsettling... and more than a little bit hypocritical:
Quote from: ""In an email to me, Isabelle Zehnder""
I'll be sending the e-mails we discussed yesterday in a while, I'm still sorting through them. Please keep those to yourself as some were sent to me by Sandy and I don't want to see them on the Internet. I had posted some e-mails on a blog but took them down because I feel personal e-mails are just that - personal.
Take down what Sandy wants NOW or you know what will happen.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on July 23, 2007, 12:55:22 AM
Quote from: ""psy""
Hey Isabelle... I find your treatment of Sandy somewhat unsettling... and more than a little bit hypocritical:
Quote from: ""In an email to me, Isabelle Zehnder""
I'll be sending the e-mails we discussed yesterday in a while, I'm still sorting through them. Please keep those to yourself as some were sent to me by Sandy and I don't want to see them on the Internet. I had posted some e-mails on a blog but took them down because I feel personal e-mails are just that - personal.
Take down what Sandy wants NOW or you know what will happen.
This would be too funny if it wasn't so sad. Isabelle already posted "personal" emails a while back. I figure now everything is fair game. People already know most of my story, if not, I'm sure Isabelle will share. Whatever. She has more to lose than I do. I have not done anything wrong. She has and continues to do so.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 23, 2007, 01:17:42 AM
How pathetic.
Izzy is begging for acceptance from the advocates who want nothing to do with her.
It's going to be interesting to see which ones (if any) are stupid enough to fall for that bullshit.
:roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on July 23, 2007, 01:21:32 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
How pathetic.
Izzy is begging for acceptance from the advocates who want nothing to do with her.
It's going to be interesting to see which ones (if any) are stupid enough to fall for that bullshit.
:roll:
Alex? Brian?? Where are you?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 23, 2007, 01:23:07 AM
What's her excuse? Ignorance?
Yeah, right. Izzy has always known the truth about PURE. She just found it convenient to ignore. That's called lack of integrity, folks.
My advice is for her to retire from the "business of advocacy" and go open a donut shop.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on July 23, 2007, 01:27:20 AM
I may be wrong, I don't claim to be an "expert" in anything BUT isn't it normal course of business to have a listing of "board of directors", "corporation paperwork", etc on file and it should be public knowledge.......... Not sure how things work state to state.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 23, 2007, 01:28:20 AM
Hold on just a second ...
NOW Izzy is saying she feels personal emails are just that - personal?
GMAFB!
This is about covering her ass - not someone else's.
Please tell me you get this, psy?
8-)
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on July 23, 2007, 01:45:16 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Hold on just a second ...
NOW Izzy is saying she feels personal emails are just that - personal?
GMAFB!
This is about covering her ass - not someone else's.
Please tell me you get this, psy?
8-)
Totally, but I've been playing very very dumb from the time she called me on the 20th. Stupid fucking ed-cons call me and think i'll be a pushover. Well. It's been nice "fucking with" you Izzy.
Toodles. Time to crash and burn with sue (oh.. wait... you .. LOL.. i put holes in your parachute)
*winks at Sandy*
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on July 23, 2007, 01:48:50 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Hold on just a second ...
NOW Izzy is saying she feels personal emails are just that - personal?GMAFB!
This is about covering her ass - not someone else's.
Please tell me you get this, psy?
8-)
Isabelle, IF you actually thought that was true, WHY did you post my portion of the emails involved w/ Patti Atwoods???? Please start posting under your name, unless you are too ashamed to do so.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on July 23, 2007, 01:59:30 AM
Quote from: ""Sandy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Hold on just a second ...
NOW Izzy is saying she feels personal emails are just that - personal?GMAFB!
This is about covering her ass - not someone else's.
Please tell me you get this, psy?
8-)
Isabelle, IF you actually thought that was true, WHY did you post my portion of the emails involved w/ Patti Atwoods????
Because she didn't know what I had (never let your enemy see your hand).
Frankly. I thought the communication leading up to the final one was pretty irrelavant so it was decided to only post the one directly from Izzy. I had no interest in exposing you as the leak. Izzy tried to use you as an excuse and didn't care enough about you to even censor your Daughter's name (and that isn't even to mention the stuff Isabelle told Patti over the phone about your family, the details of which i'm sure you can confirm in the emails I just sent you).
I was considering... considering... letting her get off if she turned information on sue (kinda like a mob snitch gets witness protection), but after her rattling the sabre at yet another one of her victims. FUCK THAT.. she is going to fry with her friend now.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on July 23, 2007, 02:11:32 AM
I was never "the leak". I had never even heard of Fornits until Isabelle sent me two emails and called me to tell me my name had been mentioned on here and bla bla bla....
Quite frankly, ANY professional person would NOT disclose their client's names to anyone. Which Isabelle has done over and over again in my family's instance.
Isabelle has bitten off more than she knows now. She's not near as smart as she thinks she is.
Isabelle, do you really THINK you know my family? NOT... no one discloses everything. Keep it up...
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 23, 2007, 02:21:55 AM
Sandy, no one knew your name until Isabelle Zehnder wrote her blog, "Who is Patti Atwoods?" Isabelle Zehnder put your name on the internet and threw you to the wolves. It's called "deflection" on these discussion forums. Izzy wanted the attention focused on you and your "famous" family; and away from her and the fact that she referred to Sue Scheff/Pure and to Sunrise Adolescent Transport. It seems from what Psy has posted; that all the "gossip" from Izzy about your family is just what Izzy does. She doesn't respect confidentiality; and it appears if you cross her, she threatens you with her lawyers. It is a shame, because it seems from your posts to and about Izzy; that you probably considered her to be a "friend." Imagine the feelings of parents, who entrusted the likes to Izzy and Scheff with the welfare and safety of their children? Just try to imagine that!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on July 23, 2007, 02:23:06 AM
Quote from: ""Sandy""
I was never "the leak". I had never even heard of Fornits until Isabelle sent me two emails and called me to tell me my name had been mentioned on here and bla bla bla....
Izzy's leak is what I meant. Probably "contact person" would have been better.
Quote
Quite frankly, ANY professional person would NOT disclose their client's names to anyone. Which Isabelle has done over and over again in my family's instance.
Isabelle has bitten off more than she knows now. She's not near as smart as she thinks she is.
Isabelle, do you really THINK you know my family? NOT... no one discloses everything. Keep it up...
Oh... that isn't even to mention what she has apparently said about me to others
Quote from: ""a certain parent who has turned on Izzy""
Just FYI, she has been telling me in the past that you're some kind of "psycho" that the university is watching.
That's libel BTW (though libel requires publication, Sandy wasn't the only parent Izzy was doing this with... And the willful dissemination of this bullshit more than qualifies as actual malice) Since you're such an attentive LEGAL SECRETARY (or rather one who was allegedly fired) you should already know what that means.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on July 23, 2007, 02:30:42 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
It seems from what Psy has posted; that all the "gossip" from Izzy about your family is just what Izzy does. She doesn't respect confidentiality; and it appears if you cross her, she threatens you with her lawyers.It is a shame, because it seems from your posts to and about Izzy; that you probably considered her to be a "friend." Imagine the feelings of parents, who entrusted the likes to Izzy and Scheff with the welfare and safety of their children? Just try to imagine that!
Isabelle needs to bring her "lawyers" on! I do not lie and I don't "use" people. I'm sure I have more access to more attorneys than she could ever hope to have in this lifetime. I've had doubts about her for a while, she kept harping on the fact that she wanted to meet my daughter, talk to her, etc... I told my daughter from the get go NOT to talk to Isabelle. Something just didn't seem right for some reason. Now I know why.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 23, 2007, 02:31:17 AM
Oh Psy, now Izzy may be up all night worrying "which one of her devoted parents" might have repeated what she may have said about you? That is, iIF she said it. Don't want her sicking those lawyers on me!
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on July 23, 2007, 02:35:17 AM
Quote from: ""Sandy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
It seems from what Psy has posted; that all the "gossip" from Izzy about your family is just what Izzy does. She doesn't respect confidentiality; and it appears if you cross her, she threatens you with her lawyers.It is a shame, because it seems from your posts to and about Izzy; that you probably considered her to be a "friend." Imagine the feelings of parents, who entrusted the likes to Izzy and Scheff with the welfare and safety of their children? Just try to imagine that!
Isabelle needs to bring her "lawyers" on! I do not lie and I don't "use" people.
No. If anything, you were used to get to Izzy. And Patti wanted me to let you know she apologizes for that (although, again, releasing your identity was never part of the plan).
Quote
I'm sure I have more access to more attorneys than she could ever hope to have in this lifetime. I've had doubts about her for a while, she kept harping on the fact that she wanted to meet my daughter, talk to her, etc... I told my daughter from the get go NOT to talk to Isabelle. Something just didn't seem right for some reason. Now I know why.
Parents should trust their instincts on things more. If something doesn't seem right, it usually isn't.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on July 23, 2007, 02:37:49 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Oh Psy, now Izzy may be up all night worrying "which one of her devoted parents" might have repeated what she may have said about you?
The question she should be asking isn't "which one"... it's "how many". I had a really hard time playing dumb with her on the phone.
Quote
That is, iIF she said it. Don't want her sicking those lawyers on me!
She can (in the words of another parent in regards to the very same issue) "blow me".
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 23, 2007, 02:42:38 AM
Something really doesn't seem "right." Sandy seems to be from a well-established, affluent, well-known family. What would make Isabelle Zehnder: a woman with no 4 year college degree; no credentials in psychology, or child therapy; no law degree; no license in Social Work; no credentials even as an Educational Consultant, even think that a family would turn over GUARDIANSHIP of their child to her? Didn't this girl have parents, grandparents, even Sandy--a concerned, and apparently loving step-mother who could be legally responsible for this child? Why would family members even consider turning over GUARDIANSHIP of their minor child to someone who was practically a stranger? And, another question: why would Isabelle Zehnder even ask to take on such a responsibility?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on July 23, 2007, 02:43:07 AM
Psy, That's fine, I don't fault anyone if they're trying to uncover the truth. I deleted Patti off myspace page early on, as she can confirm, I just felt like something else was going on. Isabelle took the ball and totally ran with it. I totally regret ANY association I had with Isabelle and for the record, I NEVER knew who Sue was or spoke to her. I was shocked when I found out it was Sue Scheff..... Oh well, Hopefully I can help otherwise.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Sandy on July 23, 2007, 02:47:22 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Something really doesn't seem "right." Sandy seems to be from a well-established, affluent, well-known family. What would make Isabelle Zehnder: a woman with no 4 year college degree; no credentials in psychology, or child therapy; no law degree; no license in Social Work; no credentials even as an Educational Consultant, even think that a family would turn over GUARDIANSHIP of their child to her? Didn't this girl have parents, grandparents, even Sandy--a concerned, and apparently loving step-mother who could be legally responsible for this child? Why would family members even consider turning over GUARDIANSHIP of their minor child to someone who was practically a stranger? And, another question: why would Isabelle Zehnder even ask to take on such a responsibility?
I was NOT the one that chose Isabelle. And it was NEVER a question about turning over "guardianship" to her. It did NOT happen and NEVER would have. My "step" daughter (which I HATE that term) knows for a fact that if she ever needs anything, I am here.
Title: Re: Sandy ARE YOUR PANTS ON FIRE???
Post by: Froderik on July 23, 2007, 11:06:34 AM
Quote from: ""Sandy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Sandy, This is crap and you know it. Isabelle does not refer to programs or transport companies.
You are inventing this to cover up the fact that you have been through the emails and there is not one that refers you to a transport co.
Tell how "D" was brought back to the states.
Isabelle, You want answers, post under your name and NOT "guest". I have not "invented" anything, it's in your email you sent to me. Until you have the guts to post under your own name, don't ask me questions. I don't answer "guest" questions, which I have previously states weeks ago.
Rock on!! Izzy needs to put up or shut up. It's awesome that you have lawyers at your disposal just in case... Looks like the fat cat's out of the bag and about to get skinned... gotta love it! ::both::
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on July 23, 2007, 11:10:59 AM
Quote from: ""Sandy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Something really doesn't seem "right." Sandy seems to be from a well-established, affluent, well-known family. What would make Isabelle Zehnder: a woman with no 4 year college degree; no credentials in psychology, or child therapy; no law degree; no license in Social Work; no credentials even as an Educational Consultant, even think that a family would turn over GUARDIANSHIP of their child to her? Didn't this girl have parents, grandparents, even Sandy--a concerned, and apparently loving step-mother who could be legally responsible for this child? Why would family members even consider turning over GUARDIANSHIP of their minor child to someone who was practically a stranger? And, another question: why would Isabelle Zehnder even ask to take on such a responsibility?
I was NOT the one that chose Isabelle. And it was NEVER a question about turning over "guardianship" to her. It did NOT happen and NEVER would have. My "step" daughter (which I HATE that term) knows for a fact that if she ever needs anything, I am here.
This seems like an attempt by Izzy (or one of her "board members" :roll:) to cast doubt on her guilt...
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 23, 2007, 01:58:45 PM
This has gotten very convuluted.
All I can really surmise from the various postings is at SOME point in recent days, it appears Izzy contacted a fornits member to discuss her relationship with SS or PURE. Is that correct?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 23, 2007, 02:37:52 PM
Only you would know Izzy. Is that correct?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on July 23, 2007, 03:32:14 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This has gotten very convuluted.
All I can really surmise from the various postings is at SOME point in recent days, it appears Izzy contacted a fornits member to discuss her relationship with SS or PURE. Is that correct?
Yes. She was dumb enough to contact me. After getting over the shock (damn near fell out of my chair) the first words out of my mouth were "can i record this phone call"... I wouldn't have bothered asking if Washington wasn't a two party state (for phone call recording).
She wanted to "explain" stuff. So. She spouted bullshit and I took notes.. bla bla.. acted like I was interested in her coaching.. played dumb in general. Anyway. She was willing to turn over info on Scheff. I got a call from a parent who knew that this was going on. Her only concern was that I might let Izzy get away with this (and no, Izzy, It was not Joyce). I told her it was out of the question.
So. Basically, Izzy says "i was fucked with"... So... let me start a new thread and post all the emails and correspondence and all sorts of fun stuff.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: ZenAgent on July 23, 2007, 03:48:03 PM
The fat's out of the bag!...um...I meant "cat" I was only joking...but seriously, though.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 23, 2007, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
This has gotten very convuluted.
All I can really surmise from the various postings is at SOME point in recent days, it appears Izzy contacted a fornits member to discuss her relationship with SS or PURE. Is that correct?
Yes. She was dumb enough to contact me. After getting over the shock (damn near fell out of my chair) the first words out of my mouth were "can i record this phone call"... I wouldn't have bothered asking if Washington wasn't a two party state (for phone call recording).
She wanted to "explain" stuff. So. She spouted bullshit and I took notes.. bla bla.. acted like I was interested in her coaching.. played dumb in general. Anyway. She was willing to turn over info on Scheff. I got a call from a parent who knew that this was going on. Her only concern was that I might let Izzy get away with this (and no, Izzy, It was not Joyce). I told her it was out of the question.
So. Basically, Izzy says "i was fucked with"... So... let me start a new thread and post all the emails and correspondence and all sorts of fun stuff.
Damn, that is bizarre! Wonder if her pal Scheff was in on this or if this was solely Izzy's idea?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 23, 2007, 06:00:29 PM
Wouldn't anyone believe this was all a joint Izzy/Scheff ploy; and Izzy just thought she was dealing with some young program suvivor kid that she could manipulate?
Izzy had already threatened to sue PSY; and had sent him that email. Surely Izzy thought Psy was afraid, and Izzy must have thought she was going to get information from him!!!!
Izzy had no idea that Psy was a smart young man who could not be used and manipulated by her.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: psy on July 23, 2007, 06:02:41 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Wouldn't anyone believe this was all a joint Izzy/Scheff ploy; and Izzy just thought she was dealing with some young program suvivor kid that she could manipulate?
Izzy had already threatened to sue PSY; and had sent him that email. Surely Izzy thought Psy was afraid, and Izzy must have thought she was going to get information from him!!!!
Izzy had no idea that Psy was a smart young man who could not be used and manipulated by her.
Why thank you, Guest. :wink:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Mummie on July 31, 2007, 02:27:52 PM
Edited. Alright, so I was mad.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Ganja on July 31, 2007, 02:32:36 PM
Quote from: ""Mummie""
Bump. Keeping yah busy you stupid bitch?
:roll:
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 31, 2007, 02:43:34 PM
Quote from: ""Mummie""
Bump. Keeping yah busy you stupid bitch?
Keeping WHO busy??? Is that why you're bumping all the Izzy threads? Because you think she's been "attacking" you?? Holy shit, you are some kind of stupid lady.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on July 31, 2007, 03:01:54 PM
You're the same person.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on August 01, 2007, 04:38:34 PM
So what's the bottom line with Isabelle and CAICA?
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Froderik on August 01, 2007, 05:40:25 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
So what's the bottom line with Isabelle?
Heavy.
Title: Interesting tidbit from the mouth of the ca-ca fatcat, Izzy.
Post by: Anonymous on August 01, 2007, 06:11:01 PM