Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Aspen Education Group => Brat Camp => Topic started by: SyN on August 07, 2005, 10:51:00 AM
-
Instead of these parents dumping into the cash cows wouldnt it be more "Theraputic". Would it not resonate better with the kids if the parents took a month off of work and had their own brat camp? Did the hikes with them, the talking, the relateing. Not only would it show the kids that they are important enough to take the time off, but would also keep them out of strangers hands.
random thought.
Mike
-
This really is a great idea.
-
I agree...a huge piece of many "troubled kids" is lack of parental attention so kids feel neglected and unimportant....but since most parents refuse to see themselves as part of the problem...the idea might not fly with most parents...but then again...who knows...sometimes great ideas just take enough people thinking the same thing at the same time, who are all willing to nourish the idea until it becomes reality...
BTW, speaking of people thinking the same thing at the same time... I know of one Delinquency Magistrate in a juvenile court who requires parental involvement by making them parties to a complaint against any child. In other words, this Magistrate understands that parents are part of the problem and have to be part of the solution.
A thought....Maybe add mediation (this is not a therapist!)to it....a neutral person along for the ride, or is close by and accessible, who does and says nothing until inevitibly tensions arise...its a technique used in some Juvenile Courts to help the problem solving along when families cant seem to communicate anymore without being at each other's throats...although mediator's can make suggestions, the idea of it is to encourage parents and children to find their own solutions. This still keeps them out of stranger's hands, which is one of the reason's its being used to keep the JJ system out whenever possible.
Mediation might be impractical, and not what you are thinking...but since it just hit me, I thought I'd throw it out there, because camping trips might not help if all a family's communication ability has completely broken down.
BUT, I do think there's something to your idea.... ::rainbow:: ::rainbow::
-
I happened to be at the park late last night and observed a dad and son (14-16) on the jogging track. Dad walking, son running. I thought how nice it was for dad and son to be spending time together that way.
Son sits down to take a break.
Dad screams from across the track: 'Get your ass up Brandon. Run.'
Oh, this wasn't 'time together', it was punishment, PT... military style. Dad did look and sound like a drill instructor.
Son: 'I need some water.'
Dad: 'No you don't, get your ass up god damn it and run.'
Son made five or six more trips around the track with dad ocassionally screaming 'Pick it up god damn it. Run.'
Mind you this was loud enough that anyone within a block could hear. Fortunately it was late. I was probably the only person to observe it.
Son: 'I am running.'
Dad: 'I didn't say you weren't running. I said pick it up god damn it.'
The kid apparently finished his mandatory laps and was allowed to stop. He staggered over to the grass and collapsed.
Dad standing 10 feet away, screams: 'Get your ass up, Brandon. I didn't tell you you could sit down. Drop and give me 25. All the way up Brandon. Get on your hands and knees if you have to but, don't stop.'
Son gives him 25, they get in their car and drive away.
Right, wrong, indifferent... a prime example of how parents absolutely could implement their own tough love, military, wilderness, bm program at home; save themselves tons of cash while keeping the family together. We can only hope that the kid gets some positive attention from his dad.
My guess is that the kid will have less resentment toward his dad than if he'd isolated him from the world and hired strangers to do the dirty work.
It's possible that some day they might look back and laugh about this- Damn dad, you were a hard ass. Yeh, I was.
My sons don't laugh with their dad about their respective incarcerations. It's not even a topic of discussion. They know his limitations, in terms of dealing with reality. They just smile and settle for a less-than authentic relationship with him. Something the programs did teach them.
-
I'm thinking you saw a "coach" dad -
High school foot ball coach or something like that - trying to keep Jr at the top of his game.
Have you maybe read Grisham's "The Bleachers"?
-
Not everyone is appreciative of that as youd think they would be, Karen.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach him to use the Net and he won't bother you for weeks.
--Anonymous
-
Was this what you were responding to Nihilanthic?, when Deborah said----
"They know his limitations, in terms of dealing with reality. They just smile and settle for a less-than authentic relationship with him. Something the programs did teach them."----
If so, that makes sense to me...because its really tough to live with that overactive "gift of awareness" forced upon me by Straight, that enabled me, and I assume many others, to see a crappy parent for what they really are. There's a lot of pain that comes with the truth of what Deborah said, and no amount of time erases it...its always there. In my case, I just have done the best I could with a less-than-authentic parent incapable if dealing with reality.
-
Nope, haven't read 'The Bleachers'. Could've been a 'coach' dad. Judging by the dad's tone, I do think my original perception, that it was an act of punishment, was accurate.
If it were a coach dad, that just wouldn't be right. If Jr doesn't posses the desire to be at the 'top of his game', he should be allowed to be and average player, or be allowed to join band or shop or whatever activity interests him.
I spend a lot of time at that park. I saw another dad coaching his two sons the other day, and it didn't bare any resemblence to this. He was not barking orders in an angry tone. He was throwing passes and giving them sons tips. IMO, that's coaching, and an example of spending quality time together.
-
//Not everyone is appreciative of that as youd think they would be//
If you were responding to me, I wasn't saying any one appreciates it.
I was just saying thats what it made me think of - a coach working the but off his kid.
Excepting jocks and Marine wannabes - I don't think this would work with the average teen. I feel pretty sure, most would tell this dad where to go, and what to do when he gets there.
As for weather even the jocks appreciate it - you might want to read the above mentioned book.
-
Well in case you'd like a book review -
it is written from the perspective of a high school foot ball player whos all grown up now.
He hates his coach.
He and the other players witnessed the coach work a kid to death, running him up and down the bleachers.
The coach was much like this dad (and a lot of them are)but he had a winning team that the boys were proud to be on.
The coach had died and the narrator and the other players were returning to town for the funeral.
Because they loved the coach.
-
I do know alot of parents wouldnt go for it. But how many even had the thought cross their mind. I guess thats more the point i was leaning towards. I find it disturbing that most parents dont see that they could do more to be a solution, but as most parents go they innocently make things worse. I for one know if my kids get that bad, I will be hitting the woods, getting away from distractions and providing indepth poppa and momma therapy. Though in the greater scheme of things perhaps i went through a hellish program to be a better parent.?. hmmm something else to ponder for a bit.
Mike
-
PM therapy is always better than BM. And nature has a lot to teach. Spending time in nature should never be used as punishment.
-
The are programs out there that offer custom trips for families. I have been approached to work as a field instructor/guide. The family, the therapist and me. I take care of the logistics side.... gear, food, what were gonna do, where were gonna go. The therapist does his/her thing. The family gets their work done. I think its a great idea. Absolutely awesome. What usually gets in the way (and what got in the way this time) is not money, but time. Somebodys schedule is just too full and its a shame.
I cant rave enough about the concept. Id love to have the opportunity to do this a couple times a year.
-
BM - behavior modification
PM - ?
-
From the post above....
Poppa and Mamma Therapy
-
On 2005-08-08 06:17:00, Shortbus wrote:
"The are programs out there that offer custom trips for families. I have been approached to work as a field instructor/guide. The family, the therapist and me. I take care of the logistics side.... gear, food, what were gonna do, where were gonna go. The therapist does his/her thing. The family gets their work done. I think its a great idea. Absolutely awesome. What usually gets in the way (and what got in the way this time) is not money, but time. Somebodys schedule is just too full and its a shame.
I cant rave enough about the concept. Id love to have the opportunity to do this a couple times a year.
"
you would think their kids would be first on the list, its very disapointing. Some think its easier to push their problems onto others.
Mike
-
I dont care what anybody else says about it, I think its a great idea. The therapist that approached me about it also does "crisis aftercare" for lack of a better label. Doenst work for any specific program, hes an independant contractor and flies around the country checking in on past students and their families. These are kids that left wilderness and went home. I think this too is a great idea. There are some good skills that can be learned at programs whether its communication or following through with a task. That visit or phone call can be beneficial. Sort of like having a sponsor after treatment.
.....oh, the connection between this therapist and the student was he was their therapist in a wilderness program.
-
On 2005-08-07 07:51:00, SyN wrote:
"Instead of these parents dumping into the cash cows wouldnt it be more "Theraputic". Would it not resonate better with the kids if the parents took a month off of work and had their own brat camp? Did the hikes with them, the talking, the relateing. Not only would it show the kids that they are important enough to take the time off, but would also keep them out of strangers hands.
random thought.
Mike"
Wonderful idea! What do you do when one parent (me) has rules, makes their child attend school, and won't let a 15 year old drink and have partys each weekend......while "The coolest father in town" does?
We couldn't even get him to come on a slopeside ski vacation with us. He hid in the (father's = bookie,drug dealer & alcholic) house when I went to pick him up.
Yup...Like I could have really got him to take a hike with me.
He later told me that when he was at his fathers house, they would see my name on the caller ID, laugh and ignore it together.
By the way, I changed my user name.
Llahsram= Marshall too hard to spell and impossible to say! Cindy[ This Message was edited by: Cynthia on 2005-08-09 05:02 ]
-
hey Cindy! that predicament sucks and I dont know what I would do. When a parent is part of the childs demise, thats a sad situation. Guess my idea would be harder for you to apply.
Quick question to all. has anyone writen the sagewalk people an email besides me?
Mike :question:
-
On 2005-08-09 05:02:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"You know fathers like that are the clear and demonstrated need for post birth abortion. "
Believe me, If I wouldn't go to prison,It would have been done 18 years ago!
-
On 2005-08-08 06:17:00, Shortbus wrote:
"The are programs out there that offer custom trips for families. I have been approached to work as a field instructor/guide. The family, the therapist and me. I take care of the logistics side.... gear, food, what were gonna do, where were gonna go. The therapist does his/her thing. The family gets their work done. I think its a great idea. Absolutely awesome. What usually gets in the way (and what got in the way this time) is not money, but time. Somebodys schedule is just too full and its a shame.
I cant rave enough about the concept. Id love to have the opportunity to do this a couple times a year.
"
Wow. That sounds amazing. It really, really is a shame that parents find it more convenient just to dump their kids by themselves in a program, when it's possible for the whole family to experience the wilderness together. I'm sorry, I don't care what your job is, or your schedual, or whatever, if you have a problem in your family and your kid needs help, nothing should come before that. I give props to any parent willing to go out into the woods with their child and work through their problems together. THAT is a good parent.
-
With flexible staff anything is possible. A good fit with therapist, field guide and family... have the family pick the location, away you go.People pay a ton of money for specialized vacations - everything from cooking in Tuscany to bird wathing in the Aleutians. It wouldnt take much to put together lesson plans for kids, menu planning for the family and cover the theraputic agenda too. Planning and commitment. And if youre willing to commit to something like this youll probably succeed and take steps forward with your family relationships.
-
Mike said ----"Quick question to all. has anyone writen the sagewalk people an email besides me?"-----
No, but I emailed Dateline the night they ran the restraints story.
What did you say to Sagewalk...Did they respond?...Just curious.
-
Mike, check the latest news.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =37&Sort=D (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=11195&forum=37&Sort=D)
Evidently, they didn't get your mail. Curious, huh?Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
-- John F. Kennedy (1917-63), U.S. Democratic politician, president. Speech, 13 March 1962, the White House.
-
You need to be more careful of who you breed with.
-
On 2005-08-11 05:07:00, bandit1978 wrote:
"You need to be more careful of who you breed with."
:question: :question: :question: ...the coercive collectivist State is distinctly uninterested in the cultivation of intelligence and wisdom. This is understandable...for the State has no uses to which persons of intelligence and wisdom can be put.
--Albert Jay Nock.
-
That was for Cindy- Cindy, be more careful whom you breed with.
-
my email I sent simply stated how disgusted I was on the fact that they are exposing these kids on TV, seemingly for their own gain. I got a response this morning. They seemingly have an auto response, it told me how to enroll my kid. lol. whatever, I will probably call to say what my email stated after my vacation.
Have fun guys be back after my vacation!!!
-
Yeah, I got a standard reply from Dateline, only to the effect, thank you for your interest, we try to read all email but cannot respond to everyone with an individual response, stuff like that----guess it doesn't hurt to try.
Bratcamp will probably never acknowledge your comments, but will probably just babble about how great their program is and spew forth other BS we've all heard before. If you call, let us know what Brat Camp says.
-
Interesting. The producers claim that they've gotten nothing but positive email. Not one negative email in the whole bit torrent of responses.
Gee, do you think maybe they need a round of wilderness therapy to deal w/ their manipulation and deception? 668: The Neighbor of the Beast
--Anonymous Postman
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;
-
On 2005-08-11 05:07:00, bandit1978 wrote:
"You need to be more careful of who you breed with."
I know that NOW, but when I was 17 and met him, he was cute and treated me very well. He actually is a nice person (I can't believe I am admiting to that :eek: ), he is just a very bad parent, a drunk, and as dumb as a rock.
The biggest skeleton in my closet!
Where were you 20 years ago when I needed that advice?????????????
-
Contact the network that purchsed Brat Camp (ABC?) and contact the companies that are purchasing ad time during the show. They are the ones that need to know how you feel. The producers dont care.... as long as they can sell the show thats all that matters to them. I wonder how many programs were contacted before the producers found one that said yes?