Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

Wanting to clean and knowing why you should is better and ultimately more effective than coercing it.

I think you know why.

If its arbitrary, its bullshit... if its meaningful (like picking up shit that is dangerous, frail, or valuable, or removing old clothes and food for sanitation) then they'll learn it and practice it.

MY room is messy and I'd hit you in the face with a dowel rod if you touched my shit, but it doesn't stink!

I agree....pick your battles. If he's as out of control as you make him sound and what, 14 or so years old, I would focus on the other things. You may want to try getting him to talk about what he is so angry about. Why does he get mad? What does he want out of you and your wife? Start a dialogue and dont focus on the small things like cleaning his room. It's probably too late for that.

In my opinion, a large obstacle to all of this is AA...AA itself is based on many of the same philosophies found in these straight types of facilites. Such as dont think for yourself, admit powerlessness, confrontation (although not to the same extent of course), hitting rock bottom, alcoholism is a disease. What type of research has been done on the efficacy of AA? Not much as it is, you know, anonymous. Yet how can this be ethical??

The state of affairs in drug treatment is basically on the level of a bunch of uneducated people running abusive treatment centers that a bunch of uneducated people will pay to have their child put into. Its downright medieval--we are living in the freaking dark ages.

Is there any treatment for drug and/or alcohol dependency that anyone here would support?  Or do drug and alcohol dependency and associated problems not really exist and therefore not need treatment?

I do not agree at all with Straight tactics, but what is the answer to trying to help people with these dependencies?  What would you recommend?[/quote]

Pretty much pick anything besides TCs and AA:

Cognitive therapy
Behavioral therapy
Cognitive Behavioral therapy
Person-Centered Therapy
Family Systems therapy
Psychoanalytic therapy
Gestalt therapy
Adlerian therapy
Existential therapy
Transactional analysis
EMDR
Activity therapy for teens
Motivational interviewing
Solution-focused therapy
Narrative therapy
Transtheoretical therapy


Uh, I'm sure there's more...

The world is full of treatment modalities which get completely ignored for the most part in the addiction industry in favor of what, AA and TCs? Gotta love it.

Some people will say whatever it takes to get kids drug free is well worth the effort, regardless of if the effort involves using straight inc methods. Other people have been dead set on ensuring that these methods are not used anymore. So, now that there is a 99.9% chance that PFC will get their precious $200,000 grant from Porter County, IN, there is an equal chance that someone, somehow, someday will get a chance to end this ongoing absurdity. For that, at least a valiant effort was made to educate the Porter County decision makers and will forever be considered at the very least, a moral victory. If they want abuse, they'll have abuse. Whatever it takes, however much it costs, they'll get their way... for now.  :flame:

In my opinion (and is this william?? hi! if so), as long as this type of treatment is even moderately considered legal and "ethical" and people are willing to pay for it, they will find a way to keep these places open. I see two approaches which could get results: one is to change public opinion so they will lose their business. I noticed on the PFC site the other day they are listing some book recently published that supposedly proclaims they are one of 144 good treatment centers. Yet the criteria listed that the book used are clearly not in alignment with these facilities. I think going directly to these book publishers and informing them about the realities of these facilities may help keep such recommendations to a minimum.

Other means such as documentary videos or news stories or books would also work well in changing public opinion. I know there have been a lot of news stories and books already...I think this is one of the more productive avenues to take as public opinion will determine to a large extent what types of services facilites decide to offer since thats where the money will be.

The other approach is through research done by Ph.Ds. These are the guys who ultimately determine what becomes ethical by licensing boards, not to mention that when certain treatment options become accepted by psychologists and counselors, those types of facilities are the ones that are going to get the most referrals, and the others will not (except of course by agencies who get paid to make referrals).

In my opinion, a large obstacle to all of this is AA...AA itself is based on many of the same philosophies found in these straight types of facilites. Such as dont think for yourself, admit powerlessness, confrontation (although not to the same extent of course), hitting rock bottom, alcoholism is a disease. What type of research has been done on the efficacy of AA? Not much as it is, you know, anonymous. Yet how can this be ethical??

The state of affairs in drug treatment is basically on the level of a bunch of uneducated people running abusive treatment centers that a bunch of uneducated people will pay to have their child put into. Its downright medieval--we are living in the freaking dark ages.

Now, its serious and they say I may be paralyzed soon.
I am not a believer in blaming Straight for everything but I did get to wondering how many other survivors suffered the same thing.

I think its OK to blame straight if you could end up in a wheelchair because of your experiences there. I'm sorry to hear that.

I dont have any back problems but my knees did get fucked up, not from sitting but the exercises we did every day.

If you start looking up "gang stalking" and "multistalking", you will see that not only the Toronto Womens' Rape Crisis Center but the San Diego Police Department, as well as other police departments, recognize it to be very real. It is psychological torture outside of any one institutional building and it has happened to more than one Straight survivor. In at least one case, the individual was clearly targeted by Straight, Inc. The most recent target people have noticed here is the one who blew the whistle on a former Straight executive and a lying reporter at a major newspaper; who was allegedly illegally evicted by a landlord who was a spy for the military during the Cold War who told her family lies about her; and whose life was threatened by a person whose stated last name is the same as one of the doctors who worked at Straight. Her so-called "best friend" dropped her like a hot potato when she started figuring out that she was likely the victim of internet crimes that carry federal penalties. She had people yelling things in her windows, honking the horn in a 3-2-1 pattern when they went by her house, people telling her fake violent news stories, street theater, "gaslighting", "sensitizing" her to certain hand signals, trying to tell her she didn't remember correctly when she did, and other psychological torture tactics. These things CEASED when she left that town, letting her know that she was NOT delusional, however, she has been followed to more than one place by people where she used to live (when she went to places easily predicted like close friends and relatives). Someone out there really wants to shut her up. You think you know what is up in this country, think again.

I cant help but get the feeling that you may be making some connections between events that other people would not make, maybe in an attempt to deal with some left over scars that you grew while being in straight.

What do you think these people, these stalkers really want? To shut you up...but it doesnt seem to be working if that is the case. I know the feeling, though. When I was working a lot a couple of years ago as a volunteer fighting against some of these places still open, I submitted a number of formal complaints agains open facilities and various staff memebers with both facility and professional licensing boards. I wrote what I thought were pretty clear and scathing letters against these places and their employees. In those days between filing the complaints and waiting for the other shoe to drop, I had moments of fear. My boyfriend got scared too. What if they were going to come and threaten me to shut me up? What if I did have some power over them in some very real way?

For the most part, not much came of my complaints. One staff member did quit working for KHK after I filed a complaint against him. The KHK site went down for a while right after that. I got a staff member from the facility in TN, Refuge or something, to take down a staff members credentials - actually two of them - because one wasnt legal to have up and the other was an outright fabrication.

But nothing else remarkable happened. They are still open, and seem to be doing fine. I am proud of any positive results that I may have played a part in, but do not see myself as a real and true threat. Besides, I think seeing them as actually organized enough to plan out these elaborate conspiracies and plans to screw peoples minds up even now is really giving them too much credit.

They are psychotic individuals, who only had control over us because we were children, and we were locked up in their buidlings 24-7. We arent children anymore, and we are free now. We arent 13-17 year olds who have hardly lived in this world at all and whos defenses are barely formed. We are free to walk around, to think what we want, and to do what we want. They have no real power over us NOW, other than the leftover affects of the feelings of powerless and hopelessness that they tried so desperately to implant in us. But even that wasnt real.