Fornits

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An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

On 2005-12-20 17:48:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Murder?  Consider the sheer numbers of students and the two on campus deaths (suicides) in all the years they've been around.    Focus on those two and you forget about all the lives that have been regained.   :wink: "

You don't have to physically die to be dead inside... Consider the "sheer numbers" of former WWASP kids with chronic PTSD and/or severe depression as a result... But wait, you CAN'T do that, because WWASP doesn't solicit independent researchers for program evaluations, nor do they track treatment outcomes.

Those of us who have been through the program know what it's like - I was at Cross Creek Manor from 97-99 - and no one can tell me that I don't know what I saw, lived, felt and endured every damn day there.  It will be seven years this June since I GRADUATED the program, and yet, my mother and I (I haven't gotten there with my dad yet) are JUST BEGINNING to be able to have a real conversation about it.  She's still extremely defensive, to be sure, but I think she's starting to accept that maybe... just maybe, I might be telling the truth (I know, shocking!)

Anyhow, I bring this up because of all the picture talk.  My single ill-fated attempt to tell both of my parents the truth about CCM resulted in them yelling and intimidating me into a corner (sort of like a seminar...).  They brought up the fact that, three weeks or so after I was "kidnapped," and sent to Cross Creek, they came to the Manor and "checked it out." They said that they saw me, with my group (B Group) outside laughing and talking with some girls, and this was how they knew that I would be okay.  I urge everyone not to fall into the "all or nothing" WWASP-ie trap.  Was my time at CCM the most traumatic experience of my life? Yes. Was I abused? Yes. Did I see other girls being dragged, kicking and screaming, down the stairs to ISO? Absolutely.  Does that mean that I never once had a smile on my face? No, of course not.  I had some real friends at CCM, and there were some times that, for awhile, we had fun and could forget about our situation for a bit...it doesn't make the abuse any less real. I can only speak from my own experience, but I know that girls were physically injured at CCM by staff - I saw it myself. But the psychological abuse that we all endured, over and over and over, is more insidious, I believe. Making a girl walk around with a sign around her neck reading "SLUT" is abusive - what would you say if a child's parents did that??

WWASP supporters live in black in white terms - but reality is often shades of grey. I think that it's really important to point out that any positive experience, no matter how few or how many, negates the validity of abuse.  In fact, those few happy times that I felt at CCM are what has made coming to grips with my feelings so damned difficult - you feel guilty for telling the truth, like you're betraying the program.

Anyhow, that's my two cents...

Interesting points...I have to confess, that as somewhat of a political progressive (I could just say "liberal," but too many people attach a negative connotation to that word unecessarily), I felt the hairs raise up on the back of my neck a little at the mention of the NRA and/or militias.  Here I can admit to having some of my *own* biases/stereotypes.  It's difficult for me not to fall into the trap of characterizing all NRA members, or all militia members (although I do still think these folks truly are on the fringe) or even all conservatives as ignorant extremists - I'm sure you can imagine the picture...Think Rush Limbaugh on steriods mixed with Ted Nugent...Scary! But when I step back from that initial reaction, I have to ask myself, "wait a second, is that really a fair generalization to make?" Sure, there are some gun-toting wackos out there, but I don't *really* believe that this perception applies to all gun enthusiasts...I know that there are responsible gun owners out there, and there are irresponsible ones as well.  I think it's important for all of us to recognize, no matter how progressive or open-minded we think we are, that every one of us has our own set of prejudices/biases.  The key is to be HONEST with yourself about those prejudices and try to correct them when they arise. I think my attitudes about guns are, in large part, largely shaped by my inexperience with them - I didn't grow up around guns, my father never hunted, and I've only shot a gun once in my life - and I didn't enjoy it at all! So thanks, Caeric, for your post - it was very thoughtful and it did what (in my opinion, anyway) posts are supposed to do...it made me think!

P.S. - About Hitler: Great point! Let's also not forget that Adolf was suspected of being a homosexual (in his lifetime, and presently) and sexual deviant (in his strange relationship with his niece, Geli Raubal), which is, of course, a major no-no for the Neo-Nazi/Aryan Brotherhood types!

I have to agree with you there Anon - I think secrecy in religion is definitely not a positive thing.  Even if there is nothing sinister going on, I think that secrecy breeds suspicion in the minds of people on the outside... I can understand the logic behind Catholic teenagers having to go through 2 years of classes (mostly on church history) before being confirmed, for example, but they're not learning anything that isn't available for the general public to learn themselves.  I think it's important for people to make informed decisions about their participation in any religion, but I don't really see what harm can come from the general public knowing the full scope of a religion's practices.

On 2005-09-20 00:57:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I don't waste too much of my time worry about this site at night. It's pretty stupid, I think. You people have no true concern for these kids' futures and would rather them grow up being criminals and hateful than being tough with them. All these kids are doing is rebelling--tons of kids do it. That doesn't mean they can commit these horrible acts.

I don't stay up at night thinking about any programs or the "horrific" memories from them because I wasn't a rude criminal delienquent like you. Sorry I had good parents to show me tough love and correct me when I did wrong so that my life wouldn't get so screwed up to have to be sent to an alternate facility.

"

I wasn't a "rude criminal deliquent" either - I did do some rebelling and got into plenty of conflicts with my parents (who certainly were not "anything goes" types of parents, BTW), but I was never arrested, never flunked out of school... Hell, I was an honor student & the editor of my high school's newspaper when I got shipped off to Cross Creek (WWASP) at age 17... If you think you have to be some kind of hardened criminal to get sent to one of these programs, think again... Unfortunately for me, during a time that my parents & I were having major problems (so much so that I wanted to move out of the house), there happened to be a girl down the street who had just graduated from Cross Creek.  Her mom talked to mine, the WWASP marketers got their hooks in, and the rest is history.

On 2005-09-19 10:12:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Some of these programs are nothing more than "dumping" grounds for kids whose parents have the money to afford to keep their kids under lock and key until they turn 18 and can no longer be held against their will in some program thousands of miles from home.

"

I have remember such a tragic example of this -

There was a girl in my group at Cross Creek Manor (WWASP) who was 12 when her parents sent her there. She was 14 when I got to CCM, and she was still there when I graduated (18 months later).  This girl had never done drugs, never had sex, never even smoked a cigarette - her "issues," I guess, were that she was VERY hyperactive (I know ADHD gets thrown around a lot these days, but I honestly think this girl was a classic case of it!) and threw some silly temper tantrums at times... basically, she was a very immature KID whose natural development was stunted at age 12 when her parents stuck her in CCM. She constantly got in trouble with staff for silly rule violations, and after awhile I believe staff penalized her more harshly than others because they viewed her as a problem.  Since she didn't have much prior life experience to draw from, she would constantly get reamed in group for "not being real," and if she ever managed to follow the rules well enough to get on phase 2, our therapist would usually end out dropping her back down & sending her to ISO (isolation) for "not working her program." I believe that her father was a lawyer, and from what I understood they were very well off... not once during the 18 months I was at CCM did her parents come to visit her.  I sincerely believe that her parents wanted to keep her their indefinitely, and since they had the money to do so, the program staff & our therapist worked to make that happen.  It was (is) very, very sad.

Hi all,

I'm working on my master's in social work, and I'm trying to write a comprehensive research proposal aimed at evaluating the long-term (two or more years out) psychological effects that appear in people who have been through programs like Straight, WWASP, etc, etc... I would like to see how much of a correlation there is in specific feelings/issues that survivors experience post-program, in other words, I'd like to see if there are any patterns that show up.... For this I really need to base my info. on previous empirical research.  I've looked for studies dealing with the programs specifically, and so far, I haven't had much luck - do any of y'all know if any studies have been done? If not based on any one program specifically, do you know of any studies that address "tough love" or thought reform based approaches to treatment? Any help here would be great!!

The last part of the country to pass state compulsory education laws, the South, finally got on the bandwagon between 1900-1920 or so... Apparently, Southern white families didn't push their kids very hard to go to school every day.  Seeing that the public school for black children were busting at the seams, Southern states finally passed their compulsory education laws, fearing that black scholastic achievment would outstrip whites....