Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Seed Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Somejoker on October 06, 2002, 10:45:00 PM
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Quick, this is a quiz, Name the three signs?
Couldn't do it, could you?
However, we spent every weekday in rules rap,the seven step rap and the three signs rap and sexual confession rap (boys and girls rap).
Okay, lets start with what the three signs were;
1) Think, think, think
2) First things first
3) easy does it.
They were posted on the wall, silly.
Next quiz question, what were the purpose of the three signs and the endless "raps" about these special powerfull tools that we used to get straight?
This is my take. They were meaningless except as a demonstration of cultic submission. The actual content was so meaningless,You didn't even remember what they were, did you?(hahaha).
my explanation. The three signs were held up as one of the special methods Art gifted us as tools to the straight seedling life. In actuality, the "sign raps" were used, just like the rules rap, to demonstrate our submission to the group and our readiness to adopt cultic group behavior.
We would enter into these raps in a weakened emotional and physical state. We would be tired, hungry restless. We were made to look straight ahead at the rap leader, to "motivate" our excitement at our participation, and weren't even allowed to sit back in our chair without knuckles poked and prodded into us from behind. Any failure to completely submit and comply, not matter how small, would result in immediate and severe punishment.
It would be then that the sign rap would begin. John Underwood or some other tyrant would come sit in the stool and bellow "Okay someone tell me what the first sign is and what it means to you".
This is when anyone actually thinking (ie: cult slang-getting into your head) would have to stop doing so and motivate his/her desire to answer this question.
answer:
"the first sign is Think, think think. This means to me that........"
Now, it was TOTALLY UNIMPORTANT what it meant to you. What was important was that you answered in the manner and method expected by the cult.
You had to answer the question in your own words but expousing the group philosophy. If it sounded insincere, you were "come down on" for giving "pat answers". If it was some alternative explanation derived from your actual thought process, you were in even bigger trouble. What was important was that you could convincingly regurgitate the cultic line in your own words in a sincere and convincing fashion.
If you cleared these hurdles, the leader would say "okay, who can tell me the next sign?"
"first things first means to me to always put my sobriety ahea.........."
regurgitate cultic group identity/behavior.
What the three signs actually were mattered not one iota. what mattered was the regurgitation of the group meaning and the adoption of the group identity as your own.
The three signs could have easily been this;
1) jack be nimble jack be quick
2) run don't walk
3) slippery when wet.
The point being that the content was irrelevant, it was the action that mattered.
Discussion?
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Aren't those used in AA as well?
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":What the three signs actually were mattered not one iota. what mattered was the regurgitation of the group meaning and the adoption of the group identity as your own."
Agreed....
One thing I thought about Greg was that they had the signs rap in the morning for us and then just before dinner, we had a rules rap, so in essence, we had our "signs" inforced in the morning and our "rules" reinforced toward the evening....Them SOB's always had our minds occupied didn't they?
Ken
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from freedom:
At age 14 or 15 the 3 Signs meant ??????
That rap meant we better pay attention, sit up straight, 'smile that big 'ol seedling smile', look motivated, and above all have a good answer if called on...or else.
So we would listen to the others and then try to get a paragraph or two planned out in our kid minds in CASE we were called on to stand up and 'shout out our feelings loud and clear'.
Bottom line - even if you were't picked to stand up and 'relate' (I rarely was), You were still relating over and over in your mind while you furiously 'motivated'. So the brain was being 'washed'- no scrubbed, as you rehearsed your answer over and over and over in your mind between the others standing up and relating just about the same thing. Your brain was continually FULL of the subject matter over and over an over and ....
Try it now, you'll see. Try to think about two totally different things at once. It is nearly impossible.
Don't dwell on the past! Look at it and gain understanding and then turn and look forward.
We made it through, guys.
Have a great day!
Enjoy the beauty around you
and be joyful! :0)
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DON'T THINK, DON'T THINK, DON'T THINK!
LAST THINGS LAST!
PUSH YOURSELF TO THE LIMIT!
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Art borrowed quite freely from A.A.It wasn't until i got sober through AA that i realized just how much Art had lifted A.A.Major differences are that A.A. doesn't place anyone on a pedestal ,and if you don't like what you hear just walk out.AA was a positive experience for me, but i sure can't say that about the seed.
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Think, Think, Think = Filter every thought, feeling and memory through the lense of program dogma.... but no getting into your head!
First Things First = Limit every thought and action to thos things you're sure Group will condone. Anything outside that tightly constricted box is probably not going to be approved... but always have your "awareness" about you!
Easy Does It Refer to first two signs... but hurry up and get with your program! Do you want to stay on your phases forever???
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You are a bright person.
Very bright.
And I agree.
You got alot out of the program.
The three signs and other seemingly meaningless thought icons helped develop your mind.
Do you consider yourself better or worse for it? I feel I was lucky to have the experiance. I continue to use the tools/principles you have brought me to recall come to think of it . Love is.
Clyde Freedom
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Thanks Clyde ( Somejoker is my handle I use to do my job as a moderator, so it is I, in case you do not know)
Am I better or worse off for being in the Seed?
Clyde, it is what it is. I do not know the path my life would have taken had I not been incarcerated in thought reform. I may have died in a car accident or I may have become an accomplished vet (an early goal of mine). I really don't know the path I would have taken but I do know it radically changed me and my future, and it has not all been rosy.
I also know this, it was a very negative experience for me emotionally and pyscologically. It was a very negative experience for my ego, very very negative, and for my confidance and for self love. It erased those things from a boy that was full of all of them. It was negative in the sense that I lost touch with my identity and spent years searching for it again.
It was very negative for my family. It caused a rift between me and my siblings and my parents that still has remnants to this day. It caused my mother much emotional grief and she ended up in the hospital with a nervous breakdown. It caused me to distrust my sister and my father for years and years.
It caused me to over-relate personal information (and still does) to total strangers and to people that haven't earned the right to know me personally.
Positives? It caused me to be suspicious of strangers, to distrust authority, to adopt skepticism as a guide to critical thinking. It strengthened my resolve to be independent at all costs and proved to me I am above all else, a survivor, a person who can come thru any adversity.
It made me stronger, but as Scott Wagner once said ( a seed descendent program survivor)...
" I NEVER NEEDED TO BE THIS STRONG"
How about you Clyde? What branch were you in? Did you graduate? what year? How did you find us?
and....WELCOME to the SDF!
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bump. Revelant to the discussion now, except you oldtimers certainly remembered the three signs right off the top of your head, whatwith the 20 years or so of it being drilled in your head.
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Greg, why relevant now?
I need something to take my mind of the depressing election results today.
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Revelant because we are discussing the methodology of the seed and we have new people in the discussion.
Yeah, I voted for Kerry too, but the people have spoken. Hopefully the environment won't suffer to much, not too many more kids will be killed, and the religious right doesn't sieze control of our freedoms, and our respect in the world can be restored at a later date.
On the brightside, the stock market is responding today favorably, especially oil and drug stocks. Surprise, surprise...
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I have a couple of signs for The Seed, but there's no icons that match my hands...
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I started on andrews ave then we moved to 84?
1974 I think.
I hope that we can find happiness in something.
I don't feel brain washed. I did have a time adjusting to the regular world. I did learn observation skills. I felt insecure alot. I still do but much less. I abandoned a girl that I loved alot and I will always have feelings for her. I am findable and she never tried to reach me. So I let it go. I have good friends that started at the seed. More later. Happy 2006.
Clyde Freedom
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On 2004-11-12 08:33:00, Stripe wrote:
"I have a couple of signs for The Seed, but there's no icons that match my hands..."
Well, there's this one ::both:: and this one ::kma:: ..."Replace end user" (The Top Support Call Closer 10 Years Running)
--Bastard Administrator
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"It caused me to over-relate personal information (and still does) to total strangers and to people that haven't earned the right to know me personally."
interesting comment:
I notice people do that for me alot then they catch themselves.
Clyde Freedom
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"'people that haven't earned the right to know me personally."
Arn't we all sharing personal info right now?
Are we hiding behind our PCs?