Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 10, 2009, 11:01:55 AM
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Since some of you claim to be against "all programs" , I want to know if you realize how much of a failure you are?
Do you realize there are thousands of programs operating right now? Do you realize that tens of thousands (at least) of adolescents go to programs every single year?
It's fine that you take that position. Everyone has to fight for what they believe in.
But look at how badly you are doing!
Do you think bitching on the internet waiting around for the great and powerful OZ to wave his want and make all programs and anything similar to them VANISH is going to work?
I don't agree with you, but damn. If you really are trying to convince people that ALL programs need to be shut down, you sure aren't doing a very good job.
It's never going to happen. The best you can hope for is a sour economy that removes the middle class's ability to use their services. Oh wait, that's happening right now! I
So I guess this would be the "golden age" of fornits as we speak right? Because it's only downhill from here, for you guys as the economy recovers and programs along with it.
Parents use programs, get over it already. They use them now, they'll be using them in 50 years. Why?
BECAUSE THEY WORK!
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We have teenagers in Europe, too, you know.
But no programs...
Strange, isn´t it?!?
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Since some of you claim to be against "all programs" , I want to know if you realize how much of a failure you are?
Oh bite my ass. I'm so sick of every time someone criticizes your beloved program, you guys go off on how we're failures or addicts or disgruntled druggies. Just shut it already. You know precisely DICK about our lives.
I'm against FORCED OR COERCED programs. I'm all for it if someone decides they need help and seeks it. I'm AGAINST forcing kids who may or may not have an actual "addiction" into bogus "treatment". There is a difference.
Do you realize there are thousands of programs operating right now? Do you realize that tens of thousands (at least) of adolescents go to programs every single year?
All too well. We realize it all too well.
It's fine that you take that position. Everyone has to fight for what they believe in.
Gee, thanks for your fucking permission.
But look at how badly you are doing!
Do you think bitching on the internet waiting around for the great and powerful OZ to wave his want and make all programs and anything similar to them VANISH is going to work?
It already is. HLA, Pathways.....there's more. Help me out here fellow fornitscators.
I don't agree with you, but damn. If you really are trying to convince people that ALL programs need to be shut down, you sure aren't doing a very good job.
By your standards maybe not....but when we get calls from grateful kids who have been pulled out or escaped the incarceration altogether because of what they're parents learned here, I'd call that a success.
It's never going to happen. The best you can hope for is a sour economy that removes the middle class's ability to use their services. Oh wait, that's happening right now! I
yeah, it's just the economy......riiiiiiiiiiight. Hey, whatever you gotta tell yourself.
So I guess this would be the "golden age" of fornits as we speak right? Because it's only downhill from here, for you guys as the economy recovers and programs along with it.
Parents use programs, get over it already. They use them now, they'll be using them in 50 years. Why?
BECAUSE THEY WORK!
Hey, whatever you gotta tell yourself.
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We have teenagers in Europe, too, you know.
But no programs...
Strange, isn´t it?!?
No, it's not that strange. I doubt many europeans could afford $5,000 a month for there kid, or any other reason. New trends start in America because we work hard and make a lot of money and spend it to make our lives better for our families. Every country has problems dealing with troubled youth. Socialist countries in europe send them away to state-run juvenile detention. American parents could call the police and send their kid to juvenile hall, but instead find a more effective option that will not leave a criminal record. Even poorer countries don't do anything for their youths, and they get drawn into religious extremism and cause all sorts of troubled for everyone.
that's like saying "there are no programs in Uganda, that proves that programs don't provide a needed service". That argument doesn't work, because if that were true programs would be out of business already. American parents utilize program services for a reason and just because other people can't afford it or societies would rather have government dealing with their kids, it doesn't prove anything other than America is #1 again in finding safe and helpful ways of dealing with troubled teens.
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We have teenagers in Europe, too, you know.
But no programs...
Strange, isn´t it?!?
No, it's not that strange. I doubt many europeans could afford $5,000 a month for there kid, or any other reason.
I'm sorry, what???? Why on earth would you assume that?
New trends start in America because we work hard and make a lot of money and spend it to make our lives better for our families. Every country has problems dealing with troubled youth. Socialist countries in europe send them away to state-run juvenile detention.
You've never actually been outside the U.S., have you? Wow, you're level of ignorance is astounding.
American parents could call the police and send their kid to juvenile hall, but instead find a more effective option that will not leave a criminal record.
Yeah, it'll just leave 'em with extreme PTSD. Taht's MUCH better.
Even poorer countries don't do anything for their youths, and they get drawn into religious extremism and cause all sorts of troubled for everyone.
Case in point....all the Montana programs.
that's like saying "there are no programs in Uganda, that proves that programs don't provide a needed service". That argument doesn't work, because if that were true programs would be out of business already. American parents utilize program services for a reason and just because other people can't afford it or societies would rather have government dealing with their kids, it doesn't prove anything other than America is #1 again in finding safe and helpful ways of dealing with troubled teens.
OMG, forget it. You're just delusional. Bet you were a big "W" supporter.
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Since some of you claim to be against "all programs" , I want to know if you realize how much of a failure you are?
Do you realize there are thousands of programs operating right now? Do you realize that tens of thousands (at least) of adolescents go to programs every single year?
It's fine that you take that position. Everyone has to fight for what they believe in.
But look at how badly you are doing!
Do you think bitching on the internet waiting around for the great and powerful OZ to wave his want and make all programs and anything similar to them VANISH is going to work?
I don't agree with you, but damn. If you really are trying to convince people that ALL programs need to be shut down, you sure aren't doing a very good job.
It's never going to happen. The best you can hope for is a sour economy that removes the middle class's ability to use their services. Oh wait, that's happening right now! I
So I guess this would be the "golden age" of fornits as we speak right? Because it's only downhill from here, for you guys as the economy recovers and programs along with it.
Parents use programs, get over it already. They use them now, they'll be using them in 50 years. Why?
BECAUSE THEY WORK!
Your summer reading assignment. (http://http://www.amazon.com/Art-Practice-Argumentation-Debate/dp/1559344482)
I expect a 12 page, single-spaced, typewritten report at the start of school in September. I am sure there is at least one chapter in there on redundancy, as I tire of having to correct you for the same mistakes, and I resent the fact that your lack of skill in argument is also causing me to be redundant in my critique. Your trail of retardation in this whole forum is so traceable it's annoying. You might as well get a username already.
You are making programs look even worse by your visible lack of eloquence and amazing inability to be articulate. At least give the entities you support a fighting chance by representing them in a manner that demonstrates that you yourself have some level of education beyond remedial finger painting.
I sincerely hope you aren't being paid for this, because you owe some people a mammoth-sized refund.
Also, if you would like extra credit, I highly recommend doing research on world economics and developing an understanding of what makes a nation wealthy.(Hint, it has something to do with these things called GDP and GNP.) According to that, countries like Luxembourg and Saudi Arabia should have a program on every corner. I don't think they do, but I could be wrong.
Anyway, if you do super good on your projects, I'll give you a lollipop.
See you in the fall!
Mr. Castle.. 7th grade English.
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There are troubled youth here in Denmark too. Right now I wear a bullet proof vest to work for the same reason. It is a number of gangs shooting at each other and they have managed to killed more innocent bystanders than gangmembers so far.
We have searched for solutions and of course programs has been investigated too. Not only by Spft (http://http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk) but also by our politicians. Some of them are traveling around the world right now.
If I look for solutions which could be used here in Denmark, I had to say that I like the peer court concept (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teen_courts).
We know that every kind of inpatient treatment or jail should be avoided if possible. Outpatient treatment are 10-15 times cheaper, so you can reach out to a larger group. A jail-cell in Denmark cost 350-400 dollars every 24H. Our guards are not armed because we dont want hostage situations so the police are used as backup and shoots inmates if they run. It is easier out in the open than inside a jail.
It is the same with our group homes for juveniles - even the secure ones. They are not big in size because larger facilities makes it more difficult for the staff to concentrate on solving individual issues.
We advocate for the Peer court concept to be used here because giving a youth a criminal record or probation gives no meaning. The specific part of the human brain which takes care of long-term consequences are not fully developed by humans until they reach 18-20 years of age. Thats why some can research improvement and state that "they grew out of it" regardless if they are warehoused or not.
So a consequence have to be short. It has to start soon after the violation has been committed. It has to be a learning experience too. Not only for the person on trail but for peers so they can see how quickly a poor descision can be taken.
If you established a system where parents without fear of a criminal record could help the authorities to solve crimes committed by their children, programs will die or the number largely reduced.
For some being placed before a peer court would be a confrontational group therapy , but it will be done within the limits of the law because every peer court procedure has to be monitored by real lawyers, socialworkers and judges.
We are by no mean a perfect country regardless our effort in the 11'th crusade against heathens. We can learn something from your culture. You have 1 out of 100 citizens locked out in prisons and programs without any improvement of security in our society. We don't need to go there. But you also have something which can work and that we will try to take and improve.
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guest:...Socialist countries in europe send them away to state-run juvenile detention
Just out of curiosity: what do you mean by socialist countries?
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guest:...Socialist countries in europe send them away to state-run juvenile detention
Just out of curiosity: what do you mean by socialist countries?
It's what american idiots label anything they don't properly understand. Sure some countries in europe have some "socialist" policies like universal healthcare and otherwise redistrobute some wealth, but so does the US government. What the fuck do you think taxes are other than the redistrobution of wealth by the state.
Also, Unlike the United States, in Europe, kids have certain rights as countries in Europe ratified the UN declaration of the rights of the child. The US and China are two of the few countries who refused to ratify that, iirc.
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idiots
This is what self-hating, european-wannabe, ex-patriots call Americans who choose to stay in the homeland.
Sure some countries in europe have some "socialist" policies
See how confusing it is when someone like Psy calls people "idiot" for using the work 'socialist', but then he goes ahead and admits its true and even uses the same exact term.
What Psy is really saying is, he hates America and all those who live here. WHY? Who knows, anti-american hate is based on emotional myths than facts, so you'll have to ask psy.
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guest:...Socialist countries in europe send them away to state-run juvenile detention
Just out of curiosity: what do you mean by socialist countries?
It's what american idiots label anything they don't properly understand. Sure some countries in europe have some "socialist" policies like universal healthcare and otherwise redistrobute some wealth, but so does the US government. What the fuck do you think taxes are other than the redistrobution of wealth by the state.
lol. Better yet, its what american idiots sucessfully propagandized by right wing misinformation outlets label anything that redistributes income in a way that equalizes household resources as opposed to isolates resources in the hands of a few.
IE.: taxes for new war, prison, football stadium= America building of the economy
taxes for universal health care, foster care=Socialism
Corporate bailouts and welfare= America building the economy
saftey regulations, union protection laws, minimum wages= Socialism.
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idiots
This is what self-hating, european-wannabe, ex-patriots call Americans who choose to stay in the homeland.
Some Americans ARE idiots (G.W.....nucULAR).
See how confusing it is when someone like Psy calls people "idiot" for using the work 'socialist', but then he goes ahead and admits its true and even uses the same exact term.
So, what you're saying is the word "socialist" is bad on its face. Booga booga BOO! Ya skeerd?
What Psy is really saying is, he hates America and all those who live here.
Do you have any substantive criticisms of his critiques or are you just gonna go with the ad hominems? And as we all know, dissent is UNpatriotic.....just as dissent against the program is 'unhealthy'.
WHY? Who knows, anti-american hate is based on emotional myths than facts, so you'll have to ask psy.
Why the hyperboles and extreme conclusions based on nothing? You're the only one to ask.
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"Why is it that the idea is popularized (through media) that there are two things you should never talk about, religion and politics. This is because dialogue between people is the real enemy of the state, just as true freedom of thought has become "THE" crime. Discussions of religion and government eventually arrive at conclusions that are not in the interest of the authorities. Uncensored conversation allows people of different levels, and fields of understanding, to actually learn from one and other. No one can expect everyone else to have the same viewpoint as they do, because everyone's paths in life are different. Some people know about this, and some people know about that. Its a big world out there and there is much to learn."
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Oh bite my ass. I'm so sick of every time someone criticizes your beloved program, you guys go off on how we're failures or addicts or disgruntled druggies. Just shut it already. You know precisely DICK about our lives
Hey AB,hope this isn’t bad timing, but that bong you gave me to look at was clogged with residue. I did a complete cleaning of the bowl, replaced the screen and I will send it back to you the end of the week. It should be fine, I would suggest changing the water a little more often. But other than that it is in good shape.
LB
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Meh......keep it.
:roflmao: :rasta:
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You brag about drug abuse and expect parents to trust you over program reps or drug-free program graduates? I don't think you thought your plan all the way through. Fornits is great for program supporters, because most of you just confirm what parents already believe about you, and lose all credibility you might of had otherwise. You know, if you used better language, lowered the anger levels down, and didn't brag about being high all the time you might help more kids.
But I think it's clear this site isn't about being against programs. It would appear the owner and operator of this website considers themselves a libertarian and endorsed Ron Paul for president. Did you know if this country adopted libertarian politics, programs would flourish like never before? The government harassment of programs would end overnight. The youth in state programs would have to be transfered to private programs. It would be a program renaissance if Ron Paul had won any significant political power.
Oh, that's right. You all think you can "educate" your way out of this. :roflmao:
Keep bragging about drug use, and keep stalking the parents of drug users who overdosed and you'll have a tough time getting anybody to listen. Any way you look at it, fornits is a failure. Well, unless you count the money raised for certain unnamed individuals. That wasn't a failure, in fact it has been quite profitable. Keep it up, I'm sure enough suckers will find there way here every now and then and a few might be dumb enough to take this place seriously. Let's all pray the next sucker has really deep pockets, and a penchant for cognitive dissonance!
:moon:
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Hey programmie, need some Preparation H?
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You know, if you used better language.
You're joking, right? This, coming from someone who can't even argue their way around a stale doughnut?
Everybody can say what they will about TheWho, at least he was articulate and knew how to throw curve balls.
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You brag about drug abuse and expect parents to trust you over program reps or drug-free program graduates? I don't think you thought your plan all the way through. Fornits is great for program supporters, because most of you just confirm what parents already believe about you, and lose all credibility you might of had otherwise. You know, if you used better language, lowered the anger levels down, and didn't brag about being high all the time you might help more kids.
You're either incredibly stupid, or you're the person who wrote the "bong" post to me. It was OBVIOUSLY someone trying to discredit anything I said. Wonder why? Did I hit a few nerves??? Hmmm??
But I think it's clear this site isn't about being against programs. It would appear the owner and operator of this website considers themselves a libertarian and endorsed Ron Paul for president.
So? What the hell does that have to do with anything? The owner of the site has nothing to do with the content that people post.
Did you know if this country adopted libertarian politics, programs would flourish like never before? The government harassment of programs would end overnight. The youth in state programs would have to be transfered to private programs. It would be a program renaissance if Ron Paul had won any significant political power.
Ummmmmm, who gives a shit about Ron Paul?? What did someone mention him on Fornits so now you're trying to say that we ALL are libertarians or Ron Paul supporters? And I beg to differ with your claims. If libertarians ran things they'd tell parents to take care of their own fucking kids and quit expecting other people to do it for them for money.
Oh, that's right. You all think you can "educate" your way out of this.
I donj't know what you have against education but it seems to be a common factor with you people. You have no critical thinking skills. I didn't either when I first got out...I had to educate myself and regain them. But don't you worry your pretty little head about things like education, facts etc. Silly.
Keep bragging about drug use, and keep stalking the parents of drug users who overdosed and you'll have a tough time getting anybody to listen.
Stalking??? Seriously?? I stated an opinion about what that parents posted.....sorry if it touched a nerve. I truly AM sorry that the kid had to endure the kind of pain he did. I've felt that pain, I've felt that desperation, I've felt that stark-cold fear.
Any way you look at it, fornits is a failure.
Yeah, y'all keep saying that yet traffic is increasing, programs are closing, parents are pulling kids and YOU guys are coming around telling us we're failures. Taht last one is a sure sign to us that we ARE succeeding. If we weren't, you wouldn't bother.
Well, unless you count the money raised for certain unnamed individuals. That wasn't a failure, in fact it has been quite profitable.
What the hell are you talking about?
Keep it up, I'm sure enough suckers will find there way here every now and then and a few might be dumb enough to take this place seriously. Let's all pray the next sucker has really deep pockets, and a penchant for cognitive dissonance!
:moon:
You keep it up....please. You only confirm taht we're on the right track. Thanks! :beat: :seg: :rocker: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :boycott: :boycott: :boycott: :boycott: :boycott: :boycott: :boycott:
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You brag about drug abuse and expect parents to trust you over program reps or drug-free program graduates? I don't think you thought your plan all the way through. Fornits is great for program supporters, because most of you just confirm what parents already believe about you, and lose all credibility you might of had otherwise. You know, if you used better language, lowered the anger levels down, and didn't brag about being high all the time you might help more kids. . . .
Keep bragging about drug use, and keep stalking the parents of drug users who overdosed and you'll have a tough time getting anybody to listen. Any way you look at it, fornits is a failure. Well, unless you count the money raised for certain unnamed individuals. That wasn't a failure, in fact it has been quite profitable. Keep it up, I'm sure enough suckers will find there way here every now and then and a few might be dumb enough to take this place seriously. Let's all pray the next sucker has really deep pockets, and a penchant for cognitive dissonance!
:moon:
I hear you, just because people here are hip to the ways of drug war doesn't mean everyone who comes along will be as hip to it. You are right about that; people here might want to consider toning it down a bit, just a thought. Aside from that, I don't think the rest is quite as 'black-and-white' as you make it out to be.
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you're the person who wrote the "bong" post to me.
Wrong.
If libertarians ran things they'd tell parents to take care of their own fucking kids and quit expecting other people to do it for them for money.
Wrong again. If Libertarians ran things they wouldn't tell parents anything, they would let them do whatever they want. Which means they would be free to send their kid to any program. There is a lot of regulation in place now, under Libertarian rule it would all be abolished in favor of parental choice. Is that what you want, because if you do then you are a secret, don't even know it, program supporter. Which is of course, hilarious. The truth is, if you support Fornits and it's policies then you are a program supporter, even if you claim otherwise.
Yeah, y'all keep saying that yet traffic is increasing, programs are closing, parents are pulling kids and YOU guys are coming around telling us we're failures. Taht last one is a sure sign to us that we ARE succeeding. If we weren't, you wouldn't bother.
:roflmao:
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The government harassment of programs
Such as? LOL. Most program that have been shut down by civil action, something that libertarians are very much in favor of.
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No, it's not that strange. I doubt many europeans could afford $5,000 a month for there kid, or any other reason. New trends start in America because we work hard and make a lot of money and spend it to make our lives better for our families. Every country has problems dealing with troubled youth. Socialist countries in europe send them away to state-run juvenile detention. American parents could call the police and send their kid to juvenile hall, but instead find a more effective option that will not leave a criminal record. Even poorer countries don't do anything for their youths, and they get drawn into religious extremism and cause all sorts of troubled for everyone.
that's like saying "there are no programs in Uganda, that proves that programs don't provide a needed service". That argument doesn't work, because if that were true programs would be out of business already. American parents utilize program services for a reason and just because other people can't afford it or societies would rather have government dealing with their kids, it doesn't prove anything other than America is #1 again in finding safe and helpful ways of dealing with troubled teens.
Oh my... I just have to say, this is rich. Have you any idea what is happening in your world right now? Have you ever left the comfort of your sad, delusional country (you know, the one one the verge of complete economic collapse and drowning in debt) and your pathetic, failed dogma?
Honestly, I can only feel compassion for people like you. Your xenophobia prevents you from seeing how beautiful the world outside your own fortress really is. Perhaps let down the drawbridge one day and go exploring for a bit.
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American parents utilize program services for a reason and just because other people can't afford it or societies would rather have government dealing with their kids, it doesn't prove anything other than America is #1 again in finding safe and helpful ways of dealing with troubled teens.
I guess that must have something to do with the fact that the United States and Somalia were the only two countries to flat out refuse to...ratify the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24114 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24114)
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=27046 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=27046)
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American parents utilize program services for a reason and just because other people can't afford it or societies would rather have government dealing with their kids, it doesn't prove anything other than America is #1 again in finding safe and helpful ways of dealing with troubled teens.
I guess that must have something to do with the fact that the United States and Somalia were the only two countries to flat out refuse to...ratify the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24114 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24114)
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=27046 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=27046)
Do you believe if the US did sign it, that the United Nations would invade America and set the kids free? What would be the point? All it takes to satisfy the anti-program "activists" is a symbolic gesture with no follow up? Interesting.
The US refuses to bow down to the UN altar for good reasons.
But wait, in fornits land, you all must believe child abuse only happens in US and Somalia because they didn't sign a document worth less than the paper it's printed on? Hilarious!
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Do you believe if the US did sign it, that the United Nations would invade America and set the kids free?
Course not... but most countries voluntarily follow treaties they sign. Where the UN fails it does so when it tries to enforce it's will on countries that do not agree... in those cases all they can use is harsh language and threats of sanctions nobody will obey.
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Ummmmmm, who gives a shit about Ron Paul?? What did someone mention him on Fornits so now you're trying to say that we ALL are libertarians or Ron Paul supporters? And I beg to differ with your claims. If libertarians ran things they'd tell parents to take care of their own fucking kids and quit expecting other people to do it for them for money.
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I disagree with you on that. These programs exist because of a LACK of govt intervention. "Govt off of our backs" is how these abductors, imprisoners and torturers have flourished.
Govt NEEDS to get on our backs, intervene on behalf of captured young people and protect them from the predications of medically invalid and unnecessary "treatment."
So, anyway, as you can see. Lots of different beliefs about things from survivors of programs on fornits. If you go to Heal, Cafety, Fica, Safe, Caica you'll see a lot of other different beliefs.
What does this have to do with the price of eggs? I dont know.
If people here like arguing with cult disiples. why not argue with cult disiples here
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/ ... KPVEM8FPSR (http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/T3KPEP7KPVEM8FPSR)
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/ ... H8BA6MVS4J (http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/TROP1SFH8BA6MVS4J)
It will serve the purpose of getting the truth out ..
instead of this exchange which really serves nothing.
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Ummmmmm, who gives a shit about Ron Paul?? What did someone mention him on Fornits so now you're trying to say that we ALL are libertarians or Ron Paul supporters? And I beg to differ with your claims. If libertarians ran things they'd tell parents to take care of their own fucking kids and quit expecting other people to do it for them for money.
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I disagree with you on that. These programs exist because of a LACK of govt intervention. "Govt off of our backs" is how these abductors, imprisoners and torturers have flourished.
Govt NEEDS to get on our backs, intervene on behalf of captured young people and protect them from the predications of medically invalid and unnecessary "treatment."
So, anyway, as you can see. Lots of different beliefs about things from survivors of programs on fornits. If you go to Heal, Cafety, Fica, Safe, Caica you'll see a lot of other different beliefs.
What does this have to do with the price of eggs? I dont know.
If people here like arguing with cult disiples. why not argue with cult disiples here
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/ ... KPVEM8FPSR (http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/T3KPEP7KPVEM8FPSR)
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/ ... H8BA6MVS4J (http://www.topix.net/forum/source/wish/TROP1SFH8BA6MVS4J)
It will serve the purpose of getting the truth out ..
instead of this exchange which really serves nothing.
Not that posting about this subject here isnt valid, that is.