Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore => Topic started by: Anonymous on December 02, 2004, 02:30:00 PM
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I'm seeing a lot of these places with problems, but are there any places that seem to get it right?
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Yes. Home. Or the home of a good friend or relative. Or a simple vacation. Or a job. Or a new school. Time to grow up and sort things out. All those things seem to work better than anything.
When a well-packaged web of lies
has been sold gradually to the masses
over generations, the truth will seem
utterly preposterous and its speaker
a raving lunatic.
--Dresden James
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Antigen, your post is almost identical to the mission statement of the program i'm in right now. We know that HOME is the best place. This place IS home to 37 kids, and they're tearing are HOME apart. See, we've been blessed with 2 HOMES. I love them just the same. I've been trying to figure you out, and in a way I feel that I have. I know that you support drug use, particularly marijuana and hash. I also know that you believe in free choice. This is exactly what Mark and Cheryl believe in. Don't you get it? We can choose to do whatever we want! I can choose to walk out the front door right now. NO ONE will stop me. I can choose to call whoever I want, NO ONE will stop me. I can choose to go to the 7-11 accross the street and buy cigarettes, again, I am free to make my own mistakes.
I, myself, ran away from this program and was gone for 3 weeks. I went across the country to Boston and stayed with a group of my friends. I later made my way up to Portland Maine to visit other friends in the area. I realized what I had done, and I willingly flew back to Utah. When I came back it was as if nothing had happened. They accepted the mistake I had made, and we all moved on together. I can now say that I am a much a stronger person.
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On 2004-12-03 11:26:00, chrisgentile wrote:
"Antigen, your post is almost identical to the mission statement of the program i'm in right now. We know that HOME is the best place. This place IS home to 37 kids, and they're tearing are HOME apart. See, we've been blessed with 2 HOMES. I love them just the same. I've been trying to figure you out, and in a way I feel that I have. I know that you support drug use, particularly marijuana and hash. I also know that you believe in free choice. This is exactly what Mark and Cheryl believe in. Don't you get it? We can choose to do whatever we want! I can choose to walk out the front door right now. NO ONE will stop me. I can choose to call whoever I want, NO ONE will stop me. I can choose to go to the 7-11 accross the street and buy cigarettes, again, I am free to make my own mistakes.
I, myself, ran away from this program and was gone for 3 weeks. I went across the country to Boston and stayed with a group of my friends. I later made my way up to Portland Maine to visit other friends in the area. I realized what I had done, and I willingly flew back to Utah. When I came back it was as if nothing had happened. They accepted the mistake I had made, and we all moved on together. I can now say that I am a much a stronger person."
I don't believe you. As a programmed person, you have very little credibility. You will anything yo preserve the image of your program and lure in new prisoners.
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The more BORING a child is, the more the parents,
when showing off the child, receive adulation for
being GOOD PARENTS -- because they have a TAME
CHILD-CREATURE in their house.
Frank Zappa
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Home, home, home. I couldn't imagine sending one of my kids off to one of these schools. Never ever, ever would I have done that.
We changed our lifestyles to accomodate having children. I gave up my career and worked odd hours so me or my husband could be there for every freaking ball game, dance recital, show, whatever. One of us was there every day after school, as were all of the other neighborhood kids 'cause every other parent on the block was away at work. And you wonder why they grew up fast and without morals or standards.
Who has been there to set any standards for 'em? Who has been there to support and praise them in their goals? Who has been there to teach them self-confidence, love, sharing, anything?
You don't know 'cause you haven't been there. It's always been a childcare worker, a teacher, a staff member. These kids are institutionalized from 6 weeks after birth (we became self-employed so we could bring our children to work with us through infancy til school years).
I didn't allow any immunizations. These are killers and mind control agents. The schools are dosing 'em out, along with the fluoride, at age 5. They want immunize newborns right after birth. We said, NO THIS IS OUR CHILD AND WE DON'T WANT TO POISON THEM.
It's time for Americans, young and old, to wake up to what's coming down the pipes. Our Constitution is gone, our government is a dictarship from illegal elections, and our military is the biggest terrorist in the world.
They're tearing our families apart with debt, bad economy and everyone working for material gain. We've thrown God out the door, but we allow Satanism in our schools. What's wrong with this picture?
Reverse everything you know and you'll be closer to the truth.
Toni Thayer
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Hi there,
I personally believe that family therapy at home is the right answer but in extreme cases I think that Grove School in CT is fantastic. I went there and sadly I had to leave but check it out I think the site is just groveschool.edu. If you have any questions feel free to email me. Just so you know also a lot of educational consultants receive comission from many of the "bad" programs so beware.
Nicole [email protected]
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On 2004-12-03 21:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The more BORING a child is, the more the parents,
when showing off the child, receive adulation for
being GOOD PARENTS -- because they have a TAME
CHILD-CREATURE in their house.
Frank Zappa"
Snagged!America when will you be angelic
When will you take off your clothes....
America after all it is you and I who are perfect
Not the next world.
--Allen Ginsberg
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On 2004-12-03 11:26:00, chrisgentile wrote:
"Antigen, your post is almost identical to the mission statement of the program i'm in right now. We know that HOME is the best place. This place IS home to 37 kids, and they're tearing are HOME apart. See, we've been blessed with 2 HOMES. I love them just the same. I've been trying to figure you out, and in a way I feel that I have. I know that you support drug use, particularly marijuana and hash.
No, you haven't figured me out. I'm actually rather more opposed to drug use than what you might call median public opinion. But I'm with Administrative Law Judge, Francis Young, DOJ/DEA on the point that "Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised routine of medical care."
( reference: http://www.calyx.net/~olsen/MEDICAL/YOUNG/young.html (http://www.calyx.net/~olsen/MEDICAL/YOUNG/young.html) )
In other words, given a choice between therapeutic use of powerful and relatively novel drugs like SSRIs (Zoloft, Prozac, Paxil, etc) and time tested, DEA approved Cannabis, it only makes sense to go w/ the least harmful, more reliable drug.
Additionally, criminal prohibition not only fails entirely at keeping the prohibited drugs away from kids, it also creates a continual windfall for black market operators in exactly the same way that alcohol prohibition made characters like Al Capone, Babyface Nelson and John Dillinger possible.
Same goes for recreational drug use. Alcohol, the #1 date rape/recreational drug, is far and away more dangerous to the user and to innocent bystanders than cannabis. So the sensible thing to do is to state facts as facts, lest our children grow up to be alcoholics.
It is pure Utopian delusion to strive for a drug free America or a drug free community. Show me a drug free prison first. Mean time, I'll continue to advocate for temperance and fact based decision making over Utopian crusades and hysteria.
I also know that you believe in free choice. This is exactly what Mark and Cheryl believe in. Don't you get it? We can choose to do whatever we want! I can choose to walk out the front door right now. NO ONE will stop me. I can choose to call whoever I want, NO ONE will stop me. I can choose to go to the 7-11 accross the street and buy cigarettes, again, I am free to make my own mistakes.
I, myself, ran away from this program and was gone for 3 weeks. I went across the country to Boston and stayed with a group of my friends. I later made my way up to Portland Maine to visit other friends in the area. I realized what I had done, and I willingly flew back to Utah. When I came back it was as if nothing had happened. They accepted the mistake I had made, and we all moved on together. I can now say that I am a much a stronger person."
I just don't believe that. You've never answered my question about how you make these kids accept and take part in your love bombing. What, exactly, do you do w/ a kid who simply doesn't want to take part?
I split from Straight twice, as I recall. I could describe it just the way you do, if I leave out a few salient facts. I left, I hitchhiked around looking for a place to land semi-permanently till I came of age. I found no decent opportunity (as a minor, on the run from my parents, duh!) and resigned myself to go back and stick it out till graduation or my 18th birthday.
But leaving took considerable planning. First time, I waited till everyone fell asleep after a particularly late open meeting night, bent back the traveler's lock on the bedroom door and stole some clothes from the host home and snuck out. The other time I told everyone (except for staff and my mother) that I had permission to get off the school bus at the post office to meet my mother for lunch, then slipped off the bus with some clothes that I'd told my mother I was donating to the Program cause they didn't fit me anymore (I had gained roughly 25 lbs after two years on the pure starch and grease diet)
I understand that roughly half of the kids at Whitmore are taken there against their will by paid "escorts" who are authorized by the parents who hire them to use handcuffs, drugs or pepper spray if need be. So then they arrive through the door and, BINGO!, suddenly they want to stay and take part? Are you telling me that, right from the beginning, kids are given the freedom to call and talk to whoever they want to, to take a stroll accross the street to the local 7-11 or just say adios and go follow the Dead or something?
It just doesn't make sense, Chris. Something has to happen to change these unruly, rebellious, defiant kids into the entheusiastically compliant and cooperative kids you describe.
What I'm asking you is this; how does that happen and do you, yourself, understand how this happened to you?
Bigot: One fanatically devoted to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and intolerant of those who differ.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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It's still December 5th where I'm sittin'. Too bad I'm sittin' in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, where it remains illegal (w/ a few exceptions) to sell beer, wine or liquor on a Sunday :lol:
Special to THE NEW YORK TIMES
Prohibition Repeal Is Ratified at 5:32 P.M.; Roosevelt Asks Nation to Bar
the Saloon; New York Celebrates With Quiet Restraint
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Washington, Dec. 5 -- Legal liquor today was returned to the United States,
with President Roosevelt calling on the people to see that "this return of
individual freedom shall not be accompanied by the repugnant conditions that
obtained prior to the adoption of the Eighteenth Amendment and those that
have existed since its adoption."
Prohibition of alcoholic beverages as a national policy ended at 5:321/2
P.M., Eastern Standard Time, when Utah, the last of the thirty-six States
furnished by vote of its convention the constitutional majority for
ratification of the Twenty-first Amendment. The new amendment repealed the
Eighteenth, and with the demise of the latter went the Volstead Act which
for more than a decade held legal drinks in America to less than one-half of
1 percent of alcohol and the enforcement of which cost more than 150 lives
and billions in money.
Earlier in the day, Pennsylvania had ratified as the thirty-fourth State and
Ohio as the thirty-fifth.
Proclamation by President
President Roosevelt at 6:55 P.M., signed an official proclamation in keeping
with terms of the National Industrial Recovery Act, under which prohibition
ended and four taxes levied to raise $277,000,000 annually for amortization
of the $3,300,000,000 public works fund were repealed.
But the President went further. Accepting certification from Acting
Secretary of State Phillips that thirty-six STates had ratified the
repealing amendment, he improved the occasion to address a plea to the
American people to employ their regained liberty first of all for national
manliness.
Mr. Roosevelt asked personally for what he and his party had declined to
make the subject of Federal mandate -- that saloons be barred from the
country.
"I ask especially," he said, "that no State shall, by law or otherwise,
authorize the return of the saloon, either in its old form or in some modern
guise."
Makes Personal Plea
He enjoined all citizens to cooperate with the government in its endeavor to
restore a greater respect for law and oder, especially by confining their
purchases of liquor to duly licensed agencies. This practice, which he
personally requested every individual and every family in the nation to
follow, would result, he said, in a better product for consumption, in
addition to the "break-up and eventual destruction of the notoriously evil
illicit liquor traffic" and in tax benefits to the government.
The President thus announced the policy of his administration -- to see that
the social and political evils of the preprohibition era shall not be
revived or permitted again to exist. Failure of citizens to use their new
freedom in helping to advance this policy, he said, would be "a living
reproach to us all."
He expressed faith, too, in the "good sense of the American people" in
preventing excessive personal use of relegalized liquor. "The objective we
seek through a national policy," he said, "is the education of every citizen
toward a greater temperance throughout the nation."
As a means of enforcing his policy, the President has the Federal Alcohol
Control Administration ready to take control of the liquor traffic and
regulate it at the source of supply.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company
Religion is just mind control.
--George Carlin, comedian
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On 2004-12-04 13:32:00, Mondamin0603 wrote:
"Hi there,
I personally believe that family therapy at home is the right answer but in extreme cases I think that Grove School in CT is fantastic. I went there and sadly I had to leave but check it out I think the site is just groveschool.edu. If you have any questions feel free to email me. Just so you know also a lot of educational consultants receive comission from many of the "bad" programs so beware.
Nicole [email protected]"
I have heard great things about the Grove School in Madison CT. It is near my home (15 minute ride) and I know a woman that works there.
It really depends on your childs issues when selecting a school. This one does not have tight security. If your child isn't cooperative, it is easy to split from there.
Good luck!
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If you want to know your child is safe and not being abused, you'd better keep him/her at home!
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How do you keep a kid at home that would rather stay out all night with friends. Keeping them at home doesn't mean you know they're safe or not abusing themselves vs. being abused. WWASP schools are good, not just for the kids for the parents as well.
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On 2004-12-06 21:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If you want to know your child is safe and not being abused, you'd better keep him/her at home!"
ROFL!! RIGHT ... and I'm sure YOUR Parents were able to keep YOU at HOME when you were doing the things you did to get yourself placed in a PROGRAM! Let's get real here. Teens DO WHAT they want with little to NO respect for their parents.
If it were THAT easy, these programs could have NEVER started.
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At least when they're home, you can talk to them, as often as they're willing. And, if you're good at solving problems, sometimes they might come to you for help and advice whenever they realize they're in trouble. Almost all kids take foolish risks and make bad choices growing up. That's why we don't let them vote or own real estate or hold public office. When you ship them off to strangers and agree to zero contact for an indefinite number of months, you don't know shit.
Ask any former POW about their signed confessions before you believe anything your kid says when they're finally allowed a phone call home. You also don't know the first thing about what any kid may have done to get themselves locked away. Some parents lose their grip when their kids listen to the wrong music or quit the football team.
Come the millennium,
month 12,
in the home of greatest power,
the village idiot will come forth to
be acclaimed the leader.
--Nostradamus
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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On 2004-12-29 20:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"How do you keep a kid at home that would rather stay out all night with friends.
Bide your tongue and lay a spread for them and their friends at every opportunity. That's one strategy. Pork chops were the #1 favorite in my house when my oldest was going through her throes.
Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right.
--Carl Schurz, German-born U.S. general and U.S. senator
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My daughter and I were talking today. She's nineteen and went through her completely horrendous years a few back. The differences between she and I are astounding. She was given the freedom and choice (many times to my extreme horror) to find her own way and boundries. There were times when I wasn't sure she would. There were physical fights, drug use, failing grades, trouble with the law etc. Now she understands her own boundries and limitations. I, however, have spent the better part of the last 25 years trying to find mine. I didn't have any before going in and after coming out my whole sense of self was completely FUCKED. I had no idea how to live. Because most of my surrounding family was still so into the program thinking I was under constant fear of having my kids taken if I didn't tow the program line. Ever heard someone say 'they have to learn on their own'? or 'you can lead a horse to water....'? There's a reason why old sayings become old sayings. My daughter learned in a few years what it's taken me over 25 to learn. So sad, so much wasted time.
Funny how she and I are growing up together now. I should have had the chance to do it like everyone else did.
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Come the millennium,
month 12,
in the home of greatest power,
the village idiot will come forth to
be acclaimed the leader.
Nostradamus
Ginger, is that a real quote? or is someone having fun??
Priceless!! :smile:
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Oh, this is a joke. Sorry. :smile: "
[/quote]All religions bear traces of the fact that they arose during the intellectual immaturity of the human race - before it had learned the obligations to speak the truth. Not one of them makes it the duty of its God to be truthful and understandable in his communications.
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher
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On 2004-12-30 16:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
Funny how she and I are growing up together now. I should have had the chance to do it like everyone else did.
Now that makes me wanna cry. Us too. And I still long for what might have been between myself and my own mother.
You have rights atecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe.
John Adams
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When I was 15 my mother and I were having "issues" and she threatened to send me to a catholic boarding school. The issues were no more than bad attitude but she was frustrated and at the end of her rope. She thought perhaps it might do us both some good. I know she suggested it from her heart and thought it might have been the best for me.
At that time however, I took it as rejection. I already had abandonment issues from early on in life. I understand now why things were they were but as a child and a teen, I did not and this was yet one more thing that proved I was unlovable and unworthy.
Things got worse after that and escalated to the point where I began taking over the counter medication both to numb myself and to become ill so that I could be looked after. When my family found out a year or so later, they reacted by crying and wondering why I was doing this to THEM. It made me feel like shit to see my mother crying like that.
They then sent me off to see a psychologist named Herman. Herman was an okay fellow but poorly equipped to deal with someone who was used to saying what she had to say to keep people happy and I soon learned the key words and phrases. Three sessions in, I am pronounced A ok. It was that easy. Now everyone is happy, I am cured, lets get back on with the game.
I know this is long, and I do not say these things out of self pitty or for public sympathy because my story is just what it is, it is in the past.
I only wanted to illustrate what can be going on when you send a teen away. I was only threatened and look what happened. How many of these kids go to the programs, learn what they have to say to get through it and then take several more years learning about self honesty and integrity.
It is very hard for me to speculate on what might have been done to make this situation different. Number one would probably have been if my parents could have got out of their own issues at the time and focused not on what they had done right or wrong and not made it about what was happening to them. I wasnt setting out to hurt them, and if I had been honest enough about my own feelings, I should have found a way to communicate that to them.
I think it taught me that if I go through issues with my own kids like that I had better learn not to react but to really try and listen and to read behind the lines to what my child is really saying. I certainly know that no matter how bad it is, I cannot react in a way that makes them feel responsable for MY feelings in any way. I will cry WITH them, but not because of them.
I dont know, its not easy, but those are just a few thoughts on sending kids (or threatening to send kids) to a program, DONT DO IT.
[ This Message was edited by: mom2three on 2005-01-29 19:22 ]
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Antigen, you have to believe that some people really are happy with where they are. Not all the kids are programmed. They really aren't stupid. I was completely comfortable with the surroundings when I was there. Maybe it's not for you and yours, but for some it is and they're happy. It's very obvious you yourself have alot of anger. Is Whitmore the only one you pick on?
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WWASP schools are NOT good! My oldest had a friend that went to one. Alot of abuse went on when he was there. They shut down several of them.
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Who said "WWASP schools are not good?"
Could it be the Referral Diva who just loves to send kids to Whitmore?
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Do you really consider it "picking on the Whitmore" when someone simply asks a question?
I read this site carefully, and I only see Antigen asking questions, or relating her experiences at Straight.
Asking questions that need to be answered is hardly picking on someone.
That's just my opinion.
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WWASP schools really are not good. My oldest son's best friend was there for I think a few months. I also knew a parent who sent their son there as well. It was the one in Samoa. It is now closed down due to abuse, I mean REAL abuse. I don't know much about Straight, but I have heard things about them also. No experience here, though. I only know personally kids that went to WWASP and they are now 22 years old. That's all I can honestly contest to, except, of course, hearsay from the internet.
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On 2005-02-16 14:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Antigen, you have to believe that some people really are happy with where they are. Not all the kids are programmed. They really aren't stupid. I was completely comfortable with the surroundings when I was there. Maybe it's not for you and yours, but for some it is and they're happy. It's very obvious you yourself have alot of anger. Is Whitmore the only one you pick on?"
You're mistaken. I really am not angry w/ the Sudweeks. I feel anguish for the families caught up in this, especially the kids. I see the way they're attacking each other and I know just what that's like. It all looks very similar to what happened in The Seed and Straight, though different in some ways.
They don't seem very happy to me. And the ones who are speaking out w/o the approval of the Sudweeks tell a story that explains why and that makes sense. I'll tell you something else. When my daughter became involved w/ an over controling, abusive young man, she swore up and down that she was happier than she'd ever been and was doing just exactly what she wanted. Thank GOD she came to her senses and got away from him before he went too far. I respect kids. I understand from my own experience how important it is to listen and pay attention to them. But, as adults, we must understand that they don't always know what's best for themselves.
And no, Whitmore is not the only place I "pick on". Just look around these forums. I host all of them. I ask questions about a lot of these places. It just happens that people are talking about Whitmore these days. Fish where the fishin's good.
The time appears to me to have come when it is the duty of all to make their dissent from religion known.
--John Stuart Mill
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.