Fornits
General Interest => Tacitus' Realm => Topic started by: BuzzKill on March 23, 2011, 06:04:03 PM
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http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgOEraouhxU
UNCUT TAPE: Former SEIU Official Reveals Secret Plan To Destroy JP Morgan
So, what about an organization plotting to bring down the worlds economy? Why would a labor union want to destroy the ability of it's members to earn a living wage? This Can't be in the best interest of it's members - can it?
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Very disingenuous, BK. Numerous fallacies in your comment. Watched the video, no mention of bringing down the world's economy. Actions against JPMorgan do not equate nor necessarily entail bringing down the world's economy. No mention of the desire of SEIU to destroy the ability of it's members to earn a living wage. Falsely equating acting against JPMorgan with a desire to destroy the membership's ability to earn a living wage. Wrapping it up with the phony question based on your fake premises. You were born for BMod, BK.
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I did some projective analysis of the conversation - OK - but it isn't disingenuous or false. I think my comments to be a very fair and predicable assessment of what they are talking about doing. JP Morgan is mentioned as a place to start. They Do speak of crashing the economy of the US - which Will crash the world's economy - which Will make earning a living wage impossible for nearly everyone - making nearly everyone very dependent on Someone Else to feed and house them - giving Someone nearly total power over the lives of nearly everyone else - IF they actually manage to pull something like this off. They say clearly they want to bring down the economy so as to re-distribute the wealth (and power?) Do you think they really intend to put any wealth in anyone's pocket but their own?
Why do you think they were having such a conversation? Serious question - Why? What in your opinion are they hoping to accomplish?
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http://mises.org/books/socialism/contents.aspx (http://mises.org/books/socialism/contents.aspx)
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Someone else already has all the power. The banks. Quantitative Easing, TARP, etc., re-inflated the banks' assets, and passed the debt onto The People. That's you, BK. 43 plus million Americans are on food stamps. So Someone Else already has the power. In order to ensure massive corporate profits, the productive sectors of the US economy were long ago shipped overseas, leaving parasitic speculative financiers, military manufacturing, and various forms of debt-linked welfare to drive the hollowed out shell. Unions were the only thing that ever produced a living wage and reasonable working conditions, and the Financial Elite has striven to break, corrupt or paint them as communists for over one hundred years. The FE has won, the unions are terminal, and the standard of living of Americans will continue to fall as people in the third world take on the jobs for rates of pay lower than Americans received in the era before the First World War. And it is entirely disingenuous to use your a priori bullshit. You're a dishonest manipulator and B MOD is defnitely up your alley.
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Actually - I largely agree with you. Even so, I think the people in general are going to loose a great deal more and it seems that some large unions are involved with how it plays out. The role some of the unions are playing lately disturbs me. And yet, your right that unions are vital if working people don't want to become little more than slave labor. Anyone whose ever worked in a non-union shop knows how bad it can be. And yet - here lately - devistation seems to be what they are working hardest to bring about - b/c if they do destroy the economy - however they do it - they will be making their members far more sub-servant to whom-ever can offer them anything to eat. It reminds me to much of a certain nation in a certain time that people always bring up when wanting to accuse someone else of being power hungry.
We're a union family. I have argued as hard against "right to work" as I have any number of other issues. I am uncomfortable being on the opposite side of politics from the union leaders - tho I am by no means alone. Still, as I have said else-where - this anti-union crap - as a general policy - will not fly with me and if they keep it up they'll loose my vote.
And Yet - the kind of thing found in this sound clip is alarming and depressing and I can not support what the SEIU are plotting or apparently why. Nor can I support a union that will engage in voter intimidation and fraud.
Sometimes it really seems that there are no good guys - just bad ones and worse ones and whose who stays in a constant flux.
I'm not manipulating, I am asking: What do you think they are up to, and why? You think this is OK b/c they're a union? Or b/c you approve of crashing the US economy to redistribute the wealth?
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Ajax.. there are problems with some unions, like teachers unions that grant them tenure and heinously degrade the quality of education.
Also, there should be term limits for politicians...
(Perhaps I seem like a "cap'n obvious" to such a learned person as yourself.. )
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I think it is nice to see someone fighting back for a change, instead of just continuing to bend over and get screwed. Wall Street made a killing off of the misfortune they brought onto all of us. Nobody went to jail, bonuses were still collected. Corporate profits soared. Ajax is right, the financial elite started this fight and have mostly won it, at least for now. BK, you must be one of the lucky ones who still has something to lose. If they protest or demonstrate in my city, I'll be there. Too bad I don't have a mortgage to not pay.
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Pointing out a problem with teachers' unions is a non sequitor. See how good the education is when the unions are completely broken and nobody worth a shit wants to teach school. Unions are composed of human beings, and as such are subject to the frailties of all human beings. Unions have been deliberately corrupted for over one hundred years, when their membership was not actually being shot, hung or arrested. Unions, like anything worth a shit in this world, are imperfect. Without them, you get serfdom. It's 100 years since the Triangle Shirtwaist factory cooked off their workforce, those that did't hurl themselves to the street that is, and the garment-makers in India are now paid, in real dollars, less money than those broads in New York in 1911. Capitalism is a religion, just like communism, and just as ridiculous.
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So shoot me, I'm a little off topic.
I agree with most of what everyone is saying on this thread... but 2 years and then you can't be fired from a teaching job...ever..?
No, sorry my friend, that's unadulterated bullshit.. smacks of bureaucracy.. :poison:
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You are right Frod. No one should have the right to collective bargaining and union representation, and you have certainly demonstrated that with your story about that teacher's contract. Fortunately, your elected representatives have seen the light, and soon we will be back to the good old days of absolute power in the hands of capitalists. It was those goddamned tenured teachers and the bureaucrats who stole the trillions of dollars from the US economy, shipped all of the industrial jobs overseas and caused the price of food and energy to soar. Motherfuckers.
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Hey, I'm not trying to let anyone off the hook here.
Let's face it, there is plenty wrong with a lot of things; you don't know where to begin sometimes.
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No, I know exactly where to begin. I stand up for my rights and I think critically. For over one hundred years, the Financial Elite of the Anglo-US axis has sought to consolidate their power. This entails massive propaganda and the co-opting of, well, everything to further their agenda. The fact that you bring up teacher's tenure when the US is at war in Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Lybia while the US populace is more and more reduced to government hand-outs and the bankers rake in record profits says it all.
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Setting aside for the moment that incompetent, senile, and bat-shit crazy teachers can not be removed from the classroom in either the universities or high schools - Or that *some* large labor unions are organizing actions to intimidate and disrupt the democratic process - How do you envision the results of breaking the banks? What assumptions do you think are probable if indeed "Atlas Shrugs"?
Fro - I have only had time to glance over the link you provided but it looks interesting. When I am feeling a little better I will make a point of looking at at least some chapters closely :)
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No, I know exactly where to begin. I stand up for my rights and I think critically. For over one hundred years, the Financial Elite of the Anglo-US axis has sought to consolidate their power. This entails massive propaganda and the co-opting of, well, everything to further their agenda. The fact that you bring up teacher's tenure when the US is at war in Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Lybia while the US populace is more and more reduced to government hand-outs and the bankers rake in record profits says it all.
Well are you saying education isn't important? I agree with everything you are saying, but there are other problems like that one that are more localized, day-to-day kind of problems.. in any case, I thought that was worth at least a mention, but I don't intend to focus on it, or do any kind of study on it...lol.
EDIT: The banks have gotten WAY out of hand.. can't agree more.
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I notice a lot, A LOT of 'shorthand' here.
The banks, the unions, ajax hasn't yet said Fat cats, yet, but it's there in subtext.
The banks..... the dollar lost virtually none of it's value between 1813 and 1913. lost near about 95% of it's value between 1913 and today. The fed was created in 1913.
Unions... while I agree that often workers need protection from management, it is more often that management needs protection from workers these days.
Job exportation... well. don't get me started. There are now, and only ever have been three means of wealth creation, and they are???, oh, O.K. they are Mining, Manufacturing, and Agriculture. All else is wealth transfer.
How did we as a nation, imagine that policies and regulations and laws that stifle these activities would benefit us. We imagined this nonsense because social engineers sold us the notion, through the promotion of junk education, junk finance, junk science, junk art, a full-court press against reason.
The United States became not a nation of technical innovation, or wealth creation, or even artistic innovation. (art and industry are jealous sisters, don't forget)
Naah, we've become a 'service sector' and 'consumer' economy.
A heroin addict is a consumer economy.
There are many separate threads that form the ecological, economic , social, spiritual disaster that our nation is becoming. Here are two.
A toxic, fatuous, sense of entitlement among a middle class that is divorced utterly from the means of production, the means of wealth production. ( Ministers and beaureaucrats imagine themselves superior to farmers and miners, police imagine themselves superior to citizens, Kids who've been to college imagine themselves smart.)
Arising from that, a philosophy of nihilism, expressed materially, physically. How else can i say it, except that the god of commercial engineering is " mean time between failure"...What a hell of a lousy way to think. Follow the reasoning and , if you have hearts and minds and souls you'll be as disgusted as i am.
J.O.M.
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You've made a number of valid points and none I am willing to argue against. But lets take a closer look at this one:
Unions... while I agree that often workers need protection from management, it is more often that management needs protection from workers these days.
I think each needs protection from the narcissism and greed of the other - so - how can the people effected most by an imbalance of power either way best maintain an equilibrium that would benefit all? Many people who want a reasonably strong union to protect them from being worked to death or starved often do not support what their union is doing politically or even in the negotiation room at times. How best to reform large unions to give the members more direct input into union policies?
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(beaureaucrats imagine themselves superior to farmers and miners, police imagine themselves superior to citizens, Kids who've been to college imagine themselves smart.)
:nods: :nods: :nods:
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buzzkill; I feel it..... yet another of my diatribes Ravings? Harangues?
Outside of a sea change in thinking onthe part of management, and a sea change on the part of labor, I jes'dunno. I think part of the answer lies in the education in Business schools. John DeLorean writes about it quite convincingly. The disparity between pay of C.E.O.s, the inclusion of bonuses in 'legacy costs, insane hiring, promotion, firing and safety rules are all part of the problem. All sorts of madness prevail in the work place, and madness is not good business. It costs, it don't produce. Management does 'exploit'the worker, but it does so very inefficiently. Management so often exploits the worker, not the workers potential. Workers become cynical and in turn, exploit workplace rules so that "sexual harassment" becomes treated not as a wrench in the gears, but rather as an effective tool of intimidation and revenge. We, whether as labor or management become de-humanized. ( i can't believe i just said de-humanized, and used it in a sentence, no less) I believe that whether a bakery or a brewery, a farm or a factory, even a damn retail clothes store, people are best to pursue it as a discipline. ( Not a religion!)
Too often management runs around banging a drum, waving a flag, without any clue beyond make money. People won't follow for long that way. People will follow if you are leading where they'd like to go. i believe that a principal factor in the decline of american production is illegal immigration, that undocs are used to leverage against the american worker, that safety, efficacy, profit, all suffer. Rather than listen to those people doing the dirty, demeaning, dangerous jobs,and finding ways to make them cleaner, safer, easier AND MORE PROFITABLE, hell, we'll just hire illegals, and take the short-term gain, cause although I'm C.E.O. today, i'll be gone tomorrow. J.O.M.
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Rather than listen to those people doing the dirty, demeaning, dangerous jobs,and finding ways to make them cleaner, safer, easier AND MORE PROFITABLE, hell, we'll just hire illegals, and take the short-term gain, cause although I'm C.E.O. today, i'll be gone tomorrow. J.O.M.
::puke:: ::puke:: ::puke::
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More bullshit. Management needs protection from workers? A sense of entitlement among the middle class? The real wages of US workers have fallen steadily since the time of Nixon. The percentage of wealth held by the tiny fraction at the top of the pyramid has expanded steadily to where the rich are richer than they were in the time of the robber barons of the Gilded Age. The rich are getting everything and the middle class is being killed off. Hard to have a sense of entitlement if you don't exist. There is no fucking workplace, it moved to China. You know, that communist country that owns the US debt and manufactures all the goods sold in the US. Funny thing that, where the CIA's "school of the Americas" death squads had to kill all the Reds in Central America, but the government sells the ones in China all their securities.
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Ajax.... Let me guess, A) you've been to college. B) You are not a happy guy C) You are manually un-or semiskilled,and D) you've never been in management, or spoken to learned folks about, or read much about economics or social systems. ( Long-timers in prison,many of them, are very knowledgeable about social systems and economics. Some have kind of a warped perspective, but they are knowledgeable) Maybe just start by reading Orwell and Solshenitsyn.
Please, I invite you to refute or criticize me with something other than "Bullshit", or a repetition of currently popular dogma. Numbers are convincing only if sound.
Thanks, J.O.M.
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Ajax.. Just one more thing.. School of the americas is run out of Ft.Benning, And is chartered nominally, at least, under A.I.D., under the treaty supervision of O.A.S., It's been a while, so maybe I'm wrong, maybe things have changed. Maybe Rolando Bosch really is a hero, just like Che'.
J.O.M.
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I read Orwell when I was 12. You'd fit right into the Road to Wiggan Pier. My Dad taught Animal Farm for 30 years. I purchased a French language version of the Gulag Archipelago when I was 14. And it's Orlando Bosch, fuckhead. You got that wrong, just like you got it wrong when you claimed Bush flew F-14s. There were no numbers to refute. You're a shut-in try-hard and you can't even get your basic facts right.
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http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZrqdZFFb5c&feature=related
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I read Orwell when I was 12. You'd fit right into the Road to Wiggan Pier. My Dad taught Animal Farm for 30 years. I purchased a French language version of the Gulag Archipelago when I was 14. And it's Orlando Bosch, fuckhead. You got that wrong, just like you got it wrong when you claimed Bush flew F-14s. There were no numbers to refute. You're a shut-in try-hard and you can't even get your basic facts right.
Stand back, everybody...it's the battle of the intellectuals!
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http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZrqdZFFb5c&feature=related
:notworthy:
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I read Orwell when I was 12. You'd fit right into the Road to Wiggan Pier. My Dad taught Animal Farm for 30 years. I purchased a French language version of the Gulag Archipelago when I was 14. And it's Orlando Bosch, fuckhead. You got that wrong, just like you got it wrong when you claimed Bush flew F-14s. There were no numbers to refute. You're a shut-in try-hard and you can't even get your basic facts right.
Stand back, everybody...it's the battle of the intellectuals!
Yes Frod. It dawned on me the last time I was washing calcium chloride off my skin from a bad cement job that I should really come down from my ivory tower and face the real world.
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To Ajax.. Touche' ya got me! ORLANDO bocsh was arrested and arraigned in D.C.,, and I was surprised to hear that. See,I went to school with his attractive daughter, and the few times my buddies and i were at his house ( hell yeah you know what I was after!) he was introduced as ROLANDO. we addressed him as ROLando,his daughter introduced him that way. He never corrected us, neither his daughter. i was surprised to learn of his arrest, and the circumstance, the crime he committed ( if crime it was). Now that you mention it, I don't now if that was a clever alias, or a family in-joke or what. I do know of "the night he shot the polish freighter" it was kind of a sorry attempt. thanks.
BTW. In English, calling people 'dickhead' or 'fuckwad' or profanity of that specie is considered rude, and grown-up people don't do that. We don't gratuitously offend. What I'm telling you , nicely, of course, and in a nurturing kind of way, is that while you may possess a sterling lineage, and while your intellect puts the rest of us in an ecstasy of awe, I still think, and i believe the evidence will support, that you are a 3rd stage syphilitic bastard, and dead wrong to boot. I do thank you for the critique (if critique it was) though.
I am sorry that your microcephaly prevents you from getting a decent job, still, there's no shame in being a concrete finisher. When i did a lot of concrete work, I just wore those cheap korean web-side boots, i got tired of buying a new pair of red-wings every three months. Hope that helps.
Yours in Blind Unrelenting Hatred.J.O.M.
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I don't have any feelings for you one way or another, and I'm not a concrete finisher. You seem to be developmentally delayed, with the bizarre boasting and allusions to being some kind of spook/law enforcement/special forces person while here you are on a forum dedicated to the Troubled Teen Industry. And again, you didn't have the slightest clue about the facts pertaining to Shrub. How could you think that he flew an F-14, which was only ever in service with the US Navy and the Iranian armed forces, when Shrub was an Air National Guardsman, and served in a period before the F-14 was introduced into service? You might have heard of Iran-Contra, one of the central factors of which was the inability of Iran to acquire spares for said F-14s from anywhere else in the world because USN were the only other force using the Tomcat. Not very well informed for an international man of mystery. You display the sophistication of a retail-clerk-turned-housewife with your whining about my language followed up by calling me a syphillitic bastard. You're a very silly person.
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Ajax... You've really hurt me this time. Imagine my shock. I find you've referred to me as a spook/leo/int'l man of mystery. There i was, just watching oprah, waxing my mustache, practicing my disguises in the mirror, and i read that! I got so upset i spilled my geriatric vitamin drink on my new fuzzy slippers, and all over my best flower-print housedress. I had to call in sick to walmart.. You've done it now, boy. Those slippers had bunnies on the toes.
I stand corrected on 2 counts. First, you are right ( of course) G.W.Bush never officially flew the 14. that was an apparent innacurate report, which i did not question. I suppose i'm just not as obsessed with his A.N.G. record as you'd wish. Second, it was wrong of me to call you a Third-stage Syphilitic bastard. i guess after you called me 'fuckhead', i just jumped to conclusions. You seem very focused, very.....singular.. in your resentments. Maybe it's not syphilis at all, maybe it's Bovine spongiform, or something else,anyway, get tested, and don't operate machinery.`
Following your example, i went out and bought me a copy of 'A Day in the Life', this one in Kuo Yueh. Can't make heads nor tails of all them squiggly lines though.
Reckon you can call me up and explain it all. Thanks, and good luck with finding work , i bet you'd make a fine concrete finisher, despite your microcephaly.
J.O.M.
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Hilarious. An inaccurate report? Not a chance, fella. This is not esoteric, obscure knowledge. One need not be obsessed with Shrub's service record to know that he was in the ANG. It was a central point in a major international news story. But a twelve-year-old with even a passing interest in defence knows the F-14 was only ever in US service with the Navy. There was no other aircraft like it in the world at the time. You clearly have some kind of narcissistic personality disorder, and that is unfortunate for you. Have a look through your posts. You refer to yourself and your exploits incessantly, regardless of the subject of discussion. And always in bizarre, grandiose fashion. You were too fragile to accept that I considered your posts to be bullshit, so you tried the infantile mode of asserting yourself by telling me to read Orwell and Solzhenitsyn, as though you are in any position to take a condescending pedagogical role with any being above the level of a cat. I like this forum because I'm curious about the views of my cousins to the south, and because every once in awhile somebody posts something of interest here. But you're bringing nothing to the party other than your fascination with yourself.