Post by: Anonymous on June 21, 2006, 02:50:00 PM
I have scoured other program forums and can't find his/her story anywhere. Anyone seen it posted elsewhere?
I believe The Who is an Ed Con or a PR person for AEG.
S/he is on here all day long defending the industry, particularly ASR/SUWS. If you read his/her posts carefully you'll notice they aren't the typical PP style.
Post by: Anonymous on June 21, 2006, 03:33:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 21, 2006, 03:41:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-21 11:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
The Who has been posting here for a while. S/he claims to be a parent who had a daughter in ASR and SUWS.
I have scoured other program forums and can't find his/her story anywhere. Anyone seen it posted elsewhere?
I believe The Who is an Ed Con or a PR person for AEG.
S/he is on here all day long defending the industry, particularly ASR/SUWS. If you read his/her posts carefully you'll notice they aren't the typical PP style.
"
So, what is the typical PP ... ... style.
oddly tho ive not seen so much a defense of suwa-asr as a position with considerable support, tho not among most here
Post by: Anonymous on June 21, 2006, 03:43:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-21 12:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
So, what is the typical PP ... ... style.
Don't know about you but for me it's standing in front of the urinal.
Post by: Troll Control on June 21, 2006, 03:49:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-21 12:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-21 12:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
So, what is the typical PP ... ... style.
Don't know about you but for me it's standing in front of the urinal.
"
Fantastic!
Post by: TheWho on June 21, 2006, 04:18:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-21 12:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-21 12:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
So, what is the typical PP ... ... style.
Don't know about you but for me it's standing in front of the urinal.
"
Here is another option for those who dont like to squat
http://www.goyourway.net/p-howtouse.html (http://www.goyourway.net/p-howtouse.html)
The only problem is you really need to throw them away afterwards and it can get expensive. Some people buy them and then copy the design and make their own.
[ This Message was edited by: TheWho on 2006-06-21 13:25 ]
Post by: TheWho on June 21, 2006, 05:29:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-21 12:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You could be right, who knows. I've thought that from time to time. I don't think it really matters though other than it would go a long way to explaining his staunch defense of even the most indefensible of programs."
I dont mind taking a hit, but the programs I back are the ones I know, ASR and SUWS. The only 2. I may converse and comment on facets of other programs as they come up in discussion and give my opinion but I have never given my blessing to send their kids to any others.
Post by: TheWho on June 21, 2006, 05:30:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-21 11:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
The Who has been posting here for a while. S/he claims to be a parent who had a daughter in ASR and SUWS.
I have scoured other program forums and can't find his/her story anywhere. Anyone seen it posted elsewhere?
I believe The Who is an Ed Con or a PR person for AEG.
S/he is on here all day long defending the industry, particularly ASR/SUWS. If you read his/her posts carefully you'll notice they aren't the typical PP style.
"
Why is it so important what I do?
Post by: Anonymous on June 21, 2006, 07:00:00 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 21, 2006, 07:20:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-21 16:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am an employee at ASR and will answer questions honestly if you like. There is a good and bad side to our program, like all things human. "
How long have you worked there?
Post by: Anonymous on June 21, 2006, 07:26:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-21 14:30:00, TheWho wrote:Quote
On 2006-06-21 11:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
The Who has been posting here for a while. S/he claims to be a parent who had a daughter in ASR and SUWS.
I have scoured other program forums and can't find his/her story anywhere. Anyone seen it posted elsewhere?
I believe The Who is an Ed Con or a PR person for AEG.
S/he is on here all day long defending the industry, particularly ASR/SUWS. If you read his/her posts carefully you'll notice they aren't the typical PP style.
Why is it so important what I do?"
We're just trying to making sure that you're working your program and being honest...now, let's have it...
Post by: Anonymous on June 21, 2006, 07:40:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 21, 2006, 07:42:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-21 14:30:00, TheWho wrote:
Why is it so important what I do?"
It's not. We're just curious because your devotion is so absolute that we figure you've got to work for the industry in some capacity. We could be wrong. You could just be a blind fool.
Post by: Deborah on June 21, 2006, 08:33:00 PM
You were asked:
Without some kind of clinical, unbiased and long term study how could you possibly know? [That "graduates" do better]
And while still posting anonymously in the HLA thread you responded:
WE dont. The survey gives US a general idea on "how WE are doing". Are WE doing better than last year? What do WE need to focus on going forward? Are WE focusing on the wrong type of kids? etc.
Who's WE?
Post by: wild fig on June 21, 2006, 08:56:00 PM
Check this one out!
http://www.sneakyleaker.com/ (http://www.sneakyleaker.com/)
Post by: Anonymous on June 21, 2006, 09:35:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-21 17:33:00, Deborah wrote:
"***Why is it so important what I do?"
You were asked:
Without some kind of clinical, unbiased and long term study how could you possibly know? [That "graduates" do better]
And while still posting anonymously in the HLA thread you responded:
WE dont. The survey gives US a general idea on "how WE are doing". Are WE doing better than last year? What do WE need to focus on going forward? Are WE focusing on the wrong type of kids? etc.
Who's WE?
"
Hmmmmmmmmm. Veddddy interesting. :eek:
Post by: TheWho on June 21, 2006, 09:42:00 PM
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
Post by: Anonymous on June 21, 2006, 09:43:00 PM
The Who isn't a single person, folks.
Post by: TheWho on June 21, 2006, 09:47:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-21 17:56:00, wild fig wrote:
"Who,
Check this one out!
http://www.sneakyleaker.com/ (http://www.sneakyleaker.com/)"
That is perfect, wish they had those back in my concert days, could have used it at "Summer Jam".
Post by: TheWho on June 21, 2006, 10:00:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-21 18:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Of course you didn't remember. YOU DIDN'T WRITE IT. It was the other monkey's turn at the keyboard that day.
The Who isn't a single person, folks."
Here is the link:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =75#167731 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=13598&forum=41&start=75#167731)
It was a discussion on surveys. They are designed and intended to answer the questions like: "How we doing?", "Are we focused on the right things?".
Post by: Anonymous on June 21, 2006, 11:57:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-21 19:00:00, TheWho wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-21 18:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Of course you didn't remember. YOU DIDN'T WRITE IT. It was the other monkey's turn at the keyboard that day.
The Who isn't a single person, folks."
Here is the link:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =75#167731 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=13598&forum=41&start=75#167731)
It was a discussion on surveys. They are designed and intended to answer the questions like: "How we doing?", "Are we focused on the right things?". "
If that were the case, you would have written, "The survey gives THEM", not US.
Have you no shame, Who. As if people can't take that link and read for themselves. I guess your banking on that not happening.
Actually WE- those who have experience with HLA- were discussing court ordered kids.
HLA troll diverted the discussion to cost of tuition and happened to mention that kids who graduate do better. A debate ensued with the troll.
You intruded without IDing yourself and claimed that no clinical studies had been conducted on HLA grads. For pages you let others believe they were interating with HLA troll. You had many opportunities to clarify but didn't, until you were outed.
Page 6 you said that "someone said no clinical studies had been done" on HLA grads.
IDIOT. It was you.
Are we interacting with a schizo here?
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 12:02:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-06-21 19:00:00, TheWho wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-21 18:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Of course you didn't remember. YOU DIDN'T WRITE IT. It was the other monkey's turn at the keyboard that day.
The Who isn't a single person, folks."
Here is the link:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =75#167731 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=13598&forum=41&start=75#167731)
It was a discussion on surveys. They are designed and intended to answer the questions like: "How we doing?", "Are we focused on the right things?". "
:roll: :roll: Come on Who, give it up.
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 01:34:00 AM
Why doesn't everyone just stop responding to this person; then hopefully THE WHO will simply vanish.
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 01:38:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 02:42:00 AM
THE WHO is never going to "convert" any fornits readers--so what is his point?
IMO, just a bag of wind that likes hearing his own voice/words.
Post by: TheWho on June 22, 2006, 06:28:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-06-21 20:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-21 19:00:00, TheWho wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-21 18:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Of course you didn't remember. YOU DIDN'T WRITE IT. It was the other monkey's turn at the keyboard that day.
The Who isn't a single person, folks."
Here is the link:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =75#167731 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=13598&forum=41&start=75#167731)
It was a discussion on surveys. They are designed and intended to answer the questions like: "How we doing?", "Are we focused on the right things?". "
If that were the case, you would have written, "The survey gives THEM", not US.
Have you no shame, Who. As if people can't take that link and read for themselves. I guess your banking on that not happening.
Actually WE- those who have experience with HLA- were discussing court ordered kids.
HLA troll diverted the discussion to cost of tuition and happened to mention that kids who graduate do better. A debate ensued with the troll.
You intruded without IDing yourself and claimed that no clinical studies had been conducted on HLA grads. For pages you let others believe they were interating with HLA troll. You had many opportunities to clarify but didn't, until you were outed.
Page 6 you said that "someone said no clinical studies had been done" on HLA grads.
IDIOT. It was you.
Are we interacting with a schizo here? "
Quote
Are we interacting with a schizo here?
Are we a little schizo ourselves? How many of you are there? Couldnt resist.
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 09:55:00 AM
Post by: TheWho on June 22, 2006, 10:38:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 06:37:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"He works as a peon at a call center.Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself."
Mark Twain
Not nice TSW, even if I did work in a call center they perform an important function for most businesses. They are the voices of their customers; they add more value to a company on a daily basis than I do in a week.
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 10:43:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 07:38:00, TheWho wrote:
Not nice TSW, even if I did work in a call center they perform an important function for most businesses. They are the voices of their customers; they add more value to a company on a daily basis than I do in a week."
Actually they're a huge pain in the ass to the customers. Most of them have no clue what they're talking about. 9 times out of 10 I need to end up speaking with a supervisor because the call center morons can't retain the information they need to in order to be helpful.
So, what do you do Who?
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 11:00:00 AM
At first I really gave him the benefit of the doubt and chalked the talk of him being and Ed Con or such just Fornits paranoia but now...hmmmmmmm.
Who? Anything to say?
Post by: TheWho on June 22, 2006, 11:07:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 08:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"There are questions about Who's employment on about 3 different threads. He came in here a few minutes ago but ignored all those, made an inane comment to TSW and left. Wonder why he won't answer the questions?
At first I really gave him the benefit of the doubt and chalked the talk of him being and Ed Con or such just Fornits paranoia but now...hmmmmmmm.
Who? Anything to say?"
Okay, why dont we start and Employment thread and all tell our stories and what we do.
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 11:08:00 AM
Quote
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =75#167731 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=13598&forum=41&start=75#167731)
On 2006-01-24 16:10:00, TheWho wrote:
"QuoteWell duh! If they pulled out then they were obviously dissatisfied.
Well looking for satisfaction , but also looking to see how well the kid was doing.QuoteBut that's not what you said before. You said that the kids who graduated did better (according to the surveys) than kids who pulled out.
Your right, my hands are moving faster than my brain. The surveys show that the kids who graduated or completed these programs did better than those who pulled out early.QuoteWithout some kind of clinical, unbiased and long term study how could you possibly know?
We dont. The survey gives us a general idea on "how we are doing". Are we doing better than last year? What do we need to focus on going forward? Are we focusing on the wrong type of kids? etc.
"
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 11:09:00 AM
Quote
Okay, why dont we start and Employment thread and all tell our stories and what we do."
Just answer the question Who.
Post by: Dr Fucktard on June 22, 2006, 11:16:00 AM
Talk to me... :tup:
Post by: Troll Control on June 22, 2006, 12:36:00 PM
Quote
Posted: 2006-06-22 09:12:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me clear up a few more items...
http://www.aacap.org/publications/policy/ps16.htm#TOP (http://www.aacap.org/publications/policy/ps16.htm#TOP)
Policy statement from The American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry indicating JCAHO facilities ONLY should be used. This rules out "programs." You can read more about their policy statement at the link.
http://www.adolpsych.org/ (http://www.adolpsych.org/)
Their articles on "Teen Troubles" warn against restrictive treatment.
http://rtckids.fmhi.usf.edu/ (http://rtckids.fmhi.usf.edu/)
This one's the kicker. The Who claims that the The Research and Training Center for Children's Mental Health REFUSED TO SIGN the letter to Congress, but, get this, they are the ones who wrote the letter and are the organization that FORMED ASTART at the university of South Florida!
Who, you've outdone yourself here!!! What a LIAR you are, sir. For SHAME!!
Do I need to go through the rest of your phony little list? I mean, if you are going to say you CALLED The Research and Training Center for Children's Mental Health and they said the REFUSED TO SIGN when they actually FORMED ASTART, you couldn't possibly be a bigger LIAR!!
This guy:
Robert Friedman, Ph.D.
Professor/Chair
Department of Child & Family
Studies
Louis de la Parte Florida Mental
Health Institute
University of South Florida
Tampa, FL
is a signator of the letter and the Director of The Research and Training Center for Children's Mental Health for chrissake, Who. How sloppy!
I think this charade has been exposed enough, so I won't bother to post more links, but you all can feel free to follow up on your own.
Just remember: If The Who wrote it, it's a BLATANT PREVARICATION!
The Who claims these people "refused to sign" a letter to Congress on behalf of ASTART, yet the very people who he claims to have "called" and "discussed" the issue with are on the list of signatures I provided!
Have a read and a laugh...my treat.
Post by: Dr Fucktard on June 22, 2006, 12:45:00 PM
No matter; our PR department would still be willing to work with you as you definitely show some potential despite your apparent sloppiness. Feel free to send us your resumé; we look forward to hearing from you!
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 12:58:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 08:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
Okay, why dont we start and Employment thread and all tell our stories and what we do."
Just answer the question Who."
:wstupid:
Answer the question.
Post by: TheWho on June 22, 2006, 01:05:00 PM
The organizations A-Start stated signed the letter to congress:
American Psychological Association
American Association of Community Psychiatrists
American Orthopsychiatric Association
Child Welfare League of America
Federation of Families for Children?s Mental Health
National Youth Advocate Program, Inc.
The following refused to sign:
American Medical association (AMA)
http://www.ama-assn.org/ (http://www.ama-assn.org/)
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
American Society for Adolescent Psychiatry
Research & Training Center on Children's Mental Health
The Research and Training Center for Children's Mental Health
Child and Adolescent Services Research Center
Center for Study and Prevention of Violence.
There are more, these are the ones I was able to locate in the time I had last night.
They didn?t sign DJ, they may believe in the concept but they didn?t sign. They may have it on their web site, but they didn?t sign. No matter how you spin it they are not on the list of signatures, period, why? Some didn?t believe in the wording, others were not invited to participate in its conception.
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 01:05:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 01:06:00 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 22, 2006, 01:10:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 09:45:00, Dr Fucktard wrote:
"Nice work, Who...but you obviously could use a few lessons in covering your ass.. :lol:
No matter; our PR department would still be willing to work with you as you definitely show some potential despite your apparent sloppiness. Feel free to send us your resumé; we look forward to hearing from you!
"
Thanks Doctor F, I am looking for something new to do, but I dont work under other people very well,as I have been told.
If you stick with the facts you dont need to cover your ass that much, but it is a good pratice to keep your back to the wall.
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 01:12:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 10:10:00, TheWho wrote:
If you stick with the facts you dont need to cover your ass that much, but it is a good pratice to keep your back to the wall."
What are the facts concerning your employment?
Post by: Troll Control on June 22, 2006, 01:13:00 PM
Face the facts, Who. You're an unmitigated liar with an agenda to promote programs even if you have to lie about every detail.
You're busted yet again in yet another huge lie. Everyone knows it. Everyone sees it. Your limp defense is pathetic.
Let's move on.
Post by: TheWho on June 22, 2006, 01:20:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 10:13:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Give it a rest, Who. Not only did you lie about contacting these orgs, you lied about statistics and you lied about the "vast majority" of mental health professionals supporting and referring to programs.
Face the facts, Who. You're an unmitigated liar with an agenda to promote programs even if you have to lie about every detail.
You're busted yet again in yet another huge lie. Everyone knows it. Everyone sees it. Your limp defense is pathetic.
Let's move on.
"
The only part I can agree with you on, DJ, is facts are facts. In the future when making comments like "Vast Majority" make sure you can provide data to support your claims or atleast show you tip the scales greater than 50%, but I agree this is tedious, lets move on.
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 01:21:00 PM
Post by: Fire Swamp on June 22, 2006, 01:26:00 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 22, 2006, 01:26:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 10:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Why won't you answer the question? What do you do for a living?"
I am a part time fornits poster.
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 01:27:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 10:26:00, TheWho wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-22 10:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Why won't you answer the question? What do you do for a living?"
I am a part time fornits poster. "
What's the problem? Why can't you answer? You don't need to give us the specific name, but what is your job title?
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 01:34:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 08:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
Without some kind of clinical, unbiased and long term study how could you possibly know?
Quote
The Who wrote:
We dont. The survey gives us a general idea on "how we are doing". Are we doing better than last year? What do we need to focus on going forward? Are we focusing on the wrong type of kids? etc.
What do you do for a living?
Post by: Troll Control on June 22, 2006, 01:35:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 10:26:00, TheWho wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-22 10:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Why won't you answer the question? What do you do for a living?"
I am a part time fornits poster. "
You've asked many other people, including me, what our qualifications are to comment on programs, but you won't answer?
It's double-standard time again in Whoville.
Lies, flip-flops and double-standards are the specialties of the day. Again, I have to say that for an adult you are very child-like.
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 01:35:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 10:26:00, Lord Obnoxio wrote:
"TheWho is a WHORE!!! :wstupid: :tup:
Yep. I'm wondering who he's whoring for.
Post by: Fire Swamp on June 22, 2006, 01:37:00 PM
Quote
What do you do for a living?"
Will you shut your bloody hole already?? :flame:
What part of "WHORE" didn't you understand??? :lol:
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 01:46:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 02:26:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 02:44:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 02:49:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 03:35:00 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 22, 2006, 03:45:00 PM
-an abusive wilderness program known for killing children
ASR: "The Academy at Swift River"
-an abusive behavior modification program under the umbrella of AEG, "Aspen Education Group," based on a level system
Post by: Troll Control on June 22, 2006, 03:51:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 10:20:00, TheWho wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-22 10:13:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Give it a rest, Who. Not only did you lie about contacting these orgs, you lied about statistics and you lied about the "vast majority" of mental health professionals supporting and referring to programs.
Face the facts, Who. You're an unmitigated liar with an agenda to promote programs even if you have to lie about every detail.
You're busted yet again in yet another huge lie. Everyone knows it. Everyone sees it. Your limp defense is pathetic.
Let's move on.
"
The only part I can agree with you on, DJ, is facts are facts. In the future when making comments like "Vast Majority" make sure you can provide data to support your claims or atleast show you tip the scales greater than 50%, but I agree this is tedious, lets move on."
um, you're the one who started this whole thing by saying "the overwhelming majority of mental health professionals" refer to programs. YOU made the claim. YOU couldn't support it with any evidence whatsoever. why are you trying to blame your statement on someone else?
Post by: TheWho on June 22, 2006, 04:10:00 PM
Quote
Anon wrote:
um, you're the one who started this whole thing by saying "the overwhelming majority of mental health professionals" refer to programs. YOU made the claim. YOU couldn't support it with any evidence whatsoever. why are you trying to blame your statement on someone else?
Here is what I was referring to. Big statement.
Quote
DJ Wrote:
What you fail to recognize is that my "opinion," as you state, is the prevailing view of professionals around the world, just like evolution and the spherical globe.
Post by: Troll Control on June 22, 2006, 05:39:00 PM
THIS is the original beginning of the argument where YOU said "The overwhelming majority of professionals believe these schools are making a big difference in these kids lives and are responsible for turning them around and getting them on track..." This is the very beginning. You also went back and edited your post later to remove this, but, of course I had already quoted you, so the cat was out of the bag at that point.
Quote
On 2006-06-21 09:21:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Quote
The overwhelming majority of professionals believe these schools are making a big difference in these kids lives and are responsible for turning them around and getting them on track...
This is an unmitigated crock of shit. Show the documentation that supports this ridiculous notion.Quote
And yes I believe we are all on equal footing and have a right to state our opinions from our own experiences.
Everyone here has the unabridged right to post what they want. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Your opinion happens to be wrong. It is so wrong that you have to fabricate statements like the one above stating the "overwhelming majority of professionals" recommend this treatment. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. But, hey, that never stops you! :lol:
"
Again, I'll ask you: Can you provide evidence that "The overwhelming majority of professionals believe these schools are making a big difference in these kids lives and are responsible for turning them around and getting them on track..." or can't you?
You've spent two days dodging the issue, editing your posts and lying like a rug to avoid answering for this statement. You said it, now back it up.
You also said "The professionals don't agree with you, DJ" but I was able to provide a list of at least 130 individuals and a half-dozen professional societies consisting of thousands of members. You have provided exactly NOTHING to support your claim.
That's the difference between you and me, Who. I say what I mean, I am accountable for it and provide evidence to support it. You lie, make things up, edit your posts to remove the lies you've been caught in and sign my name to anonymous posts that I didn't write.
You are a pathetic individual.
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 05:47:00 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 22, 2006, 05:54:00 PM
You had approx 130 people sign the petition well lets say 150 to give you the best edge. There are probably 10,000 professionals in the U.S. (I know you compared your position to the whole world, but I dont have time nor the inclination to humor you). So you have 1.5 % of the professionals sign the paper. So if you had 1.5 % ( that agree with you) that leaves 98.5% that don?t. I would call that an over whelming majority.
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 06:40:00 PM
That's a meaningless number too, I just wanted to hoist you by your own retard.
Post by: TheWho on June 22, 2006, 06:50:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 15:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"And there's probably a grand total of a few hundred people who have ever advocated programs on the Internet and a shitload of articles, anti-sites, and extremely pissed off people, including the readers of these news articles, which number in the millions.
That's a meaningless number too, I just wanted to hoist you by your own retard."
I will never cease to be amazed at how people can get so pissed at the messenger. None of this is opinion, it is data. I wasn?t responsible for publishing the list , ?A Start? published it (its not DJ?s nor mine) It is what it is. You can spin the results and interpret it as you may but the numbers are just numbers.
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 07:01:00 PM
Give it a rest WHO. You are a silly person.
Post by: Curious & Willing to on June 22, 2006, 07:28:00 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 22, 2006, 07:36:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 16:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The Who, besides being a liar, and the most misinformed person around: really must be a woman. "She" sure dislikes DJ, that's for sure, and is merely trying to present empty arguments that go round-and-round. Deletion of privous posts to cover her lies are pointless. Then doing the "girl thing" and saying DJ dislikes women, that really blew her silly, silly cover.
Give it a rest WHO. You are a silly person."
Wow, you are definitely new here. You should go back and read the posts, I never said DJ dislikes girls and he jumped in on a conversation I was having not the other way around.
But you are right, I am a silly person sometimes.
Post by: TheWho on June 22, 2006, 07:41:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 16:28:00, Curious & Willing to Listen wrote:
"Why is it that a lot of people come on here and don't reveal to everyone who they really are??"
Well, about a year ago when I started posting here, I read about some people who gave out their name and email address and they eventually got harassed at home and flooded with emails that where so bad they had to change their address and phone number so their kids would not be exposed to some of the language.
So thats why some are a little shy about exposing themselves too much.
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 08:16:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 07:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-22 07:38:00, TheWho wrote:
Not nice TSW, even if I did work in a call center they perform an important function for most businesses. They are the voices of their customers; they add more value to a company on a daily basis than I do in a week."
Actually they're a huge pain in the ass to the customers. Most of them have no clue what they're talking about. 9 times out of 10 I need to end up speaking with a supervisor because the call center morons can't retain the information they need to in order to be helpful.
So, what do you do Who?"
He works as a peon at a call center. The sort of scum sucking cunt lip motherfuckers who pester you when you just want to flop your ass down on the shitter and drop a bomb. Probably he works the 900 line for 1 900 Gay Boys.
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 08:16:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 07:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-22 07:38:00, TheWho wrote:
Not nice TSW, even if I did work in a call center they perform an important function for most businesses. They are the voices of their customers; they add more value to a company on a daily basis than I do in a week."
Actually they're a huge pain in the ass to the customers. Most of them have no clue what they're talking about. 9 times out of 10 I need to end up speaking with a supervisor because the call center morons can't retain the information they need to in order to be helpful.
So, what do you do Who?"
He works as a peon at a call center. The sort of scum sucking cunt lip motherfuckers who pester you when you just want to flop your ass down on the shitter and drop a bomb. Probably he works the 900 line for 1 900 Gay Boys.
Post by: Nihilanthic on June 22, 2006, 08:18:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 16:28:00, Curious & Willing to Listen wrote:
"Why is it that a lot of people come on here and don't reveal to everyone who they really are??"
I CBF'd to deal with harassment. Its also just common sense on the internet to not do that unless youre prepared to be a public figure, or you own a business of some sort.
However, I doubt that if WWASPS or Sue Scheff felt like finding out who I was it wouldnt be very hard. I do know Sue at the least has made it known to certain people she wanted to sue me but still hasn't done much.
Then again, why would she bother? Shes hanging out with CAICA and getting referral money juuuust fine!
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 08:22:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 08:33:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 08:36:00 PM
We're all a little paranoid.
Post by: TheWho on June 22, 2006, 08:39:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 17:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Thanks "the who: understandable now
"
Thank you, for taking the time to review the posts.
Post by: TheWho on June 22, 2006, 08:42:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 08:44:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 08:46:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2006, 11:51:00 PM
"Wow, you are definetily new here..." and your denial that YOU ever said Dsyfunction Junction did not like women.
Since you appear to be in a "CONFESSIONAL MODE" about lying about just about everything: are you admitting you also post as WILD FIG?
You posted as WILD FIG on 6-21-06 at 8:24:00 and stated:
"Two example of his (Dysfunction Junction's) obvious distaste for women in general and his chauvinistic responses to one female poster...."
I am NOT new here, and YES YOU DID say DJ did not like women.
Fess up buddy!
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2006, 12:00:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 17:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I mean really. I understand why WE'RE obsessed with Fornits. We were horribly abused and this is really the only place where people get what we're talking about. What's the reason for you being here day after day, ALL day long, spending "hours" researching DJs information in a failed attempt to prove your point?"
Were Nihilanthic, Dysfunction Junction and Deborah horribly abused? Three Springs? I didn't realize that. I'm glad there is a forum where you can all help each other recover from this abuse.
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2006, 12:21:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2006, 12:25:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2006, 12:30:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2006, 12:30:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 21:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
To the previous poster: what a shitty, nasty post. Never have Niles, Deborah, DJ, or TSW ever professed to be abuse victims.
Bullshit, idiot...they have so. :roll: :roll:
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2006, 12:56:00 AM
Post by: Rachael on June 23, 2006, 12:58:00 AM
What do you do Who?
It is one of the most beautiful compensations of life, that no man can sincerely try to help another without helping himself.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
Post by: TheWho on June 23, 2006, 07:14:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-06-22 20:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The Who: in response to your statement-
"Wow, you are definetily new here..." and your denial that YOU ever said Dsyfunction Junction did not like women.
Since you appear to be in a "CONFESSIONAL MODE" about lying about just about everything: are you admitting you also post as WILD FIG?
You posted as WILD FIG on 6-21-06 at 8:24:00 and stated:
"Two example of his (Dysfunction Junction's) obvious distaste for women in general and his chauvinistic responses to one female poster...."
I am NOT new here, and YES YOU DID say DJ did not like women.
Fess up buddy!"
The who isnt wild fig,,ask deborah to check.
Post by: Troll Control on June 23, 2006, 08:44:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-06-23 04:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-22 20:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The Who: in response to your statement-
"Wow, you are definetily new here..." and your denial that YOU ever said Dsyfunction Junction did not like women.
Since you appear to be in a "CONFESSIONAL MODE" about lying about just about everything: are you admitting you also post as WILD FIG?
You posted as WILD FIG on 6-21-06 at 8:24:00 and stated:
"Two example of his (Dysfunction Junction's) obvious distaste for women in general and his chauvinistic responses to one female poster...."
I am NOT new here, and YES YOU DID say DJ did not like women.
Fess up buddy!"
The who isnt wild fig,,ask deborah to check."
Wild Fig is hiding a very dirty little secret. Please ask The Fig to have his/her posts linked in the system whenever s/he posts. Get some answers from The Fig.
Fig, why do you avoid having your posts linked up under your username? Just give us the reason why you disappear every time someone asks you this.
Is it perhaps because you are one of the most prolific trolls ever to have emerged on Fornits?
Get back to us on that.
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2006, 03:03:00 PM
Absolute game-playing, dishonesty.
Post by: TheWho on June 23, 2006, 03:39:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-23 12:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yep, WILD FIG and THE WHO are one-and-the-same; and as long as he/she wants to yak to "themself" then what's the point?
Absolute game-playing, dishonesty."
Why guess, ask Deborah to check it out for you, then we will know for sure.
Post by: Troll Control on June 23, 2006, 03:43:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-23 12:39:00, TheWho wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-23 12:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yep, WILD FIG and THE WHO are one-and-the-same; and as long as he/she wants to yak to "themself" then what's the point?
Absolute game-playing, dishonesty."
Why guess, ask Deborah to check it out for you, then we will know for sure."
We're still waiting for The Fig to have his/her posts linked.
We linked The Who's posts together some time ago after he was posing as several different people and making up different personal histories while trolling relentlessly.
He still lies about every single thing he posts, but at least you know who the lies are coming from. That's a good first-step!
Post by: TheWho on June 23, 2006, 03:51:00 PM
I think he will hit 2,000 posts today, I have never seen someone flip out this much.
DJ calm down, its going to be okay, if you really want us to say the majority agrees with you we will, I promise, just get a grip, latch onto a thread you know something about and contribute to it without attacking people, its much more rewarding and better time spent. I would'nt suggest the HLA thread, though.
Post by: Troll Control on June 23, 2006, 03:57:00 PM
Quote
DJ calm down, its going to be okay, if you really want us to say the majority agrees with you we will, I promise.
All I want is for you to prove your statement that only 1.5% of professional mental health workers agree that private residential programs are undesirable forms of treatment and that 98.5% support, endorse and refer to programs as you said yesterday.
Just SHOW THE PROOF and we can move on to the next topic. Why do you get so defensive and start lashing out when you get caught in these prevarications? Can't you just admit that you fabricated a number and called it a fact? I thought you were a grown-up...?
So, please, if you can't support what you say admit it and move on. At ASR you'd be on restrictions for "not getting honest."
Now, tell the truth or move the rockpile. you choose. :lol:
Post by: TheWho on June 23, 2006, 04:13:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-23 12:57:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Quote
DJ calm down, its going to be okay, if you really want us to say the majority agrees with you we will, I promise.
All I want is for you to prove your statement that only 1.5% of professional mental health workers agree that private residential programs are undesirable forms of treatment and that 98.5% support, endorse and refer to programs as you said yesterday.
Just SHOW THE PROOF and we can move on to the next topic. Why do you get so defensive and start lashing out when you get caught in these prevarications? Can't you just admit that you fabricated a number and called it a fact? I thought you were a grown-up...?
So, please, if you can't support what you say admit it and move on. At ASR you'd be on restrictions for "not getting honest."
Now, tell the truth or move the rockpile. you choose. :lol:
"
No, I am not going to prove it to you yet again, DJ, with your busy work. No matter how many times you ask, stamp your feet and do the math.
150/10,000 = 0.015 or 1.5%
If that is a majority than be happy with yourself. You are just plain wrong, I am not going to humor you anymore, work it out with your friends, okay?
New Topic..........................
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2006, 04:15:00 PM
It is now becoming almost comical that almost nothing posted by this person is reliable, or lends itself to any truths.
THE WHO, you really do need to go away.
HOPEFULLY you did lie, and have no children that are at your heartless mercy.
Your father financially supporting you, still?
Undoubtably you spend no time gainfully employed.
Post by: TheWho on June 23, 2006, 04:22:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-23 13:15:00, Anonymous wrote:Okay, log back in, take a deep breath.
"THE WHO is a proven liar with no conscious.
It is now becoming almost comical that almost nothing posted by this person is reliable, or lends itself to any truths.
THE WHO, you really do need to go away.
HOPEFULLY you did lie, and have no children that are at your heartless mercy.
Your father financially supporting you, still?
Undoubtably you spend no time gainfully employed.
"
Post by: Fire Swamp on June 23, 2006, 04:24:00 PM
Quote
THE WHO is a proven liar with no conscious.
That's "conscience" you stupid bloody subnormal!!! :flame: :lol:
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2006, 04:24:00 PM
Do you have any helpless children?
Post by: Nihilanthic on June 23, 2006, 05:55:00 PM
its just a stupid troll.
he just wants a responce.
Post by: Troll Control on June 23, 2006, 06:02:00 PM
Quote
150/10,000 = 0.015 or 1.5%
And 10 x 10 = 100. So what?
Where did you get these figures? Please post the link to your source of these numbers.
I know you just made them up, but maybe new readers could use some reassurance from you.
Post by: Troll Control on June 23, 2006, 06:05:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-23 13:22:00, TheWho wrote:
"QuoteOkay, log back in, take a deep breath."
On 2006-06-23 13:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"THE WHO is a proven liar with no conscious.
It is now becoming almost comical that almost nothing posted by this person is reliable, or lends itself to any truths.
THE WHO, you really do need to go away.
HOPEFULLY you did lie, and have no children that are at your heartless mercy.
Your father financially supporting you, still?
Undoubtably you spend no time gainfully employed.
"
If you're talking to me, it wasn't me that wrote this, although I agree wholeheartedly with the content.
Just face the facts, Who, people that used to support your idiocy have now decided you're too much of a liar to be helpful to "the cause" and that you only detract from others' credibility through incessant lying so they've jettisoned you.
Post by: TheWho on June 23, 2006, 06:40:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-23 14:55:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"stop replying to the who.
its just a stupid troll.
he just wants a responce."
Niles is right, I am only looking for attention. Move to a thread you have some knowledge in and try to help out someone.
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2006, 10:14:00 PM
I have asked you 3 times: do you actually have a daughter? Does your DADDY support you financially? And, I called you a liar, with nothing to contribute, since you know nothing about the teen help industry.
Post by: Troll Control on June 24, 2006, 09:29:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-06-23 15:02:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Quote
150/10,000 = 0.015 or 1.5%
And 10 x 10 = 100. So what?
Where did you get these figures? Please post the link to your source of these numbers.
I know you just made them up, but maybe new readers could use some reassurance from you.
"
answer the question who. where?????
Post by: Anonymous on June 24, 2006, 01:38:00 PM
Post by: Nihilanthic on June 24, 2006, 05:33:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-24 10:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"PLEASE stop asking WHO questions; or he/she/it will never go away. Who gives a rat's ass what this person answers? It's lies and makes no sense."
I agree. Stop believing in it and it goes away, like the boogieman.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 08:12:00 AM
Still waiting... :roll:
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 10:35:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 05:12:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Never did get a straight answer as to the source of your numbers, Who. Where did you get the number 10,000? Where did you get the number 150?
Still waiting... :roll:
"
You will have to start pulling your own weight, DJ. I provided this information several times to you and each time you reject the results.
Sharpen your pencil and do it yourself this time.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 11:03:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 07:35:00, TheWho wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-26 05:12:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Never did get a straight answer as to the source of your numbers, Who. Where did you get the number 10,000? Where did you get the number 150?
Still waiting... :roll:
"
You will have to start pulling your own weight, DJ. I provided this information several times to you and each time you reject the results.
Sharpen your pencil and do it yourself this time.
"
Another lie. Provide the LINK to the SOURCE of your figures, please. It took you longer to DODGE the question than it would have to cite your sources.
The only reference you made to the ORIGIN of your figures was a mathmatical equation that didn't show where you got the numbers to plug into it.
Quit lying and state your REFERENCES for the FIGURES, please.
If you CAN'T CITE THEM, you are a LIAR who's trying to avoid admitting the fact that you are a LIAR.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 11:39:00 AM
Quote
DJ, Wrote:
What you fail to recognize is that my "opinion," as you state, is the prevailing view of professionals around the world, just like evolution and the spherical globe.
Boy this is really getting old and this is going on for a week now. Thats a big statement, you reject my numbers, you do the math this time, DJ.
Provide the data to back your statement; I am not doing any more work for you. If you can prove me a liar I will admit it like a gentleman. Let me know what you find.....
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2006, 11:48:00 AM
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 12:11:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 08:39:00, TheWho wrote:
"QuoteDJ, Wrote:
What you fail to recognize is that my "opinion," as you state, is the prevailing view of professionals around the world, just like evolution and the spherical globe.
Boy this is really getting old and this is going on for a week now. Thats a big statement, you reject my numbers, you do the math this time, DJ.
Provide the data to back your statement; I am not doing any more work for you. If you can prove me a liar I will admit it like a gentleman. Let me know what you find.....
"
You QUOTED A FIGURE that you claimed was "proof" of your assertion, which you made BEFORE I made any statement regarding the issue.
WHERE DID YOU GET THE FIGURES FROM, Who?
It's a simple question.
As for my assertion, since there ARE NO PROGRAMS in the rest of the world (save for a few American ones in foreign lands), there are NO PROFESSIONALS reffering to them. In the US, there are only a few that refer to programs - a handful. In any case, obviously THE VAST MAJORITY of professionals worldwide don't support or refer to programs BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T SEEN THE NEED TO CREATE THEM - therefore they cannot send kids to them.
Now, WHERE DID YOU GET THE FIGURE that only 1.5% of professionals do not approve of or refer patients to programs?
ANSWER THE QUESTION. Your refusal to answer is the basis by which to conlude YOU ARE LYING ABOUT THE NUMBER.
Not only are you a complete and utter fabricator, you're a baby as well. Quit being a baby, quit lying and QUOTE YOUR SOURCE.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 12:25:00 PM
Quote
DJ Wrote:
As for my assertion, since there ARE NO PROGRAMS in the rest of the world , (save for a few American ones in foreign lands),
How do you know this? You don?t, cite your source.
Quote
In the US, there are only a few that refer to programs - a handful
How do you substantiate this? Only 5 professionals in the U.S. refer to RTCs and TBS?s ?
Quote
In any case, obviously THE VAST MAJORITY of professionals worldwide don't support or refer to programs BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T SEEN THE NEED TO CREATE THEM - therefore they cannot send kids to them.
In my daughters peer group and the one in back of hers there was a child from England and one from another European country. They were referred by professionals from their own respective countries.
I guess we can stop this now, you are embarrassing yourself, grasping at straws. You don?t know what you are talking about, you make it up as you go along.
Go harass someone else, I am not going to feed your ego.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 12:36:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 09:25:00, TheWho wrote:
"QuoteDJ Wrote:
As for my assertion, since there ARE NO PROGRAMS in the rest of the world , (save for a few American ones in foreign lands),
How do you know this? You don?t, cite your source.QuoteIn the US, there are only a few that refer to programs - a handful
How do you substantiate this? Only 5 professionals in the U.S. refer to RTCs and TBS?s ?QuoteIn any case, obviously THE VAST MAJORITY of professionals worldwide don't support or refer to programs BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T SEEN THE NEED TO CREATE THEM - therefore they cannot send kids to them.
In my daughters peer group and the one in back of hers there was a child from England and one from another European country. They were referred by professionals from their own respective countries.
I guess we can stop this now, you are embarrassing yourself, grasping at straws. You don?t know what you are talking about, you make it up as you go along.
Go harass someone else, I am not going to feed your ego.
"
FOR THE RECORD: The Who has refused to cite the source of his "facts." He's been asked over and over and over again to post a link to the stats he used to conclude that only 1.5% of professionals worldwide do not refer to or do not promote programs.
Who stated that 98.5% of professional therapists actively support and refer to programs. Since he made that obvious blunder he has spent days dodging the issue of his source of this number.
THE WHO IS A LIAR OF THE FIRST ORDER. He lies about everything and refuses to provide the source of his spurious comments and conclusions.
It's a shame that I had to keep on you like this for days, Who, but you have finally admitted you lied about your claims. Your total inability to provide a source for your claim proves what I said in the first five minutes: YOU MADE IT UP OUT OF THIN AIR.
You, Who, should be ashamed of yourself for being such a blatant LIAR. I want you to see a professional about your pathological lying.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 12:42:00 PM
Quote
Go harass someone else, I am not going to feed your ego.
Translation: "I'll do and say anything to avoid admitting I made up a story and got pinched again for it."
You are a pathetic individual, Who. Pathetic.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 12:44:00 PM
Try again:
Quote
DJ Wrote:
As for my assertion, since there ARE NO PROGRAMS in the rest of the world , (save for a few American ones in foreign lands),
How do you know this? You don?t, cite your source.
Quote
In the US, there are only a few that refer to programs - a handful
How do you substantiate this? Only 5 professionals in the U.S. refer to RTCs and TBS?s ?
Quote
In any case, obviously THE VAST MAJORITY of professionals worldwide don't support or refer to programs BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T SEEN THE NEED TO CREATE THEM - therefore they cannot send kids to them.
In my daughters peer group and the one in back of hers there was a child from England and one from another European country. They were referred by professionals from their own respective countries.
I guess we can stop this now, you are embarrassing yourself, grasping at straws. You don?t know what you are talking about, you make it up as you go along.
Go harass someone else, I am not going to feed your ego.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 12:49:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 09:42:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Quote
Go harass someone else, I am not going to feed your ego.
Translation: "I'll do and say anything to avoid admitting I made up a story and got pinched again for it."
You are a pathetic individual, Who. Pathetic.
"
If you substantiate your statements I will eat crow like a gentleman, I said that, and I will.
You have shown me nothing. You may name call if you like, it shows you are immature and unprofessional.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 12:49:00 PM
It's a simple problem. YOU (not me as you insist) made the claim and REFUSE to cite your source.
Why? BECAUSE YOU ARE A LAIR, WHO.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 12:52:00 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 01:04:00 PM
Quote
DJ, Wrote:
What you fail to recognize is that my "opinion," as you state, is the prevailing view of professionals around the world, just like evolution and the spherical globe.
You made the statement ,DJ, the burden is on you to back up what you say not the other way around.
Boy this is really getting old and this is going on for a week now. Thats a big statement, DJ.
Provide the data to back your statement; I am not doing any more work for you. If you can prove me a liar I will admit it like a gentleman. Again, Let me know what you find.....
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 01:18:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 10:04:00, TheWho wrote:
"QuoteDJ, Wrote:
What you fail to recognize is that my "opinion," as you state, is the prevailing view of professionals around the world, just like evolution and the spherical globe.
You made the statement ,DJ, the burden is on you to back up what you say not the other way around.
Boy this is really getting old and this is going on for a week now. Thats a big statement, DJ.
Provide the data to back your statement; I am not doing any more work for you. If you can prove me a liar I will admit it like a gentleman. Again, Let me know what you find.....
"
First, YOU made the statement that 1.5% of professionals agree with me. You used "10,000" as the number of practicing therapists in the US. And you fallaciously said that ONLY those who signed the ASTART letter agree with me (That's incredibly fallacious logic, but we can't expect more than that from a complete moron).
Now, would you agree that everyone who signed the ASTART letter DOES in fact agree with me? That's your statement and you used it to support your position.
Well, the American Psychological Association DID SIGN. The APA has over 150,000 MEMBERS, Who. This of course, is only ONE of the signators - there are several other professional associations consisting of thousands of members each.
So, this is where we're at, Who: AT AN ABSOLUTE MINIMUM 150,000 PROFESSIONALS AGREE WITH ME. And that's a DOCUMENTED FACT.
You're claim of 1.5% is based upon two lies:
Lie #1; "There are 10,000 mental health professionals in the country." THIS IS A PROVABLE, MADE UP LIE. It also goes to show how precious little you know about the "mental health community."
Lie #2: "Only 150 people signed the ASTART letter." THIS IS A PROVABLE LIE.
WHO, YOU ARE SOOOO FULL OF SHIT THAT YOU'RE EYES ARE BROWN.
YOU ARE A LIAR. AN UNABASHED, UNMITIGATED LIAR.
You took two false premises that you made up in your head and used them to draw an utterly ridiculous and false conclusion. Not only that, but you've spent hours over many days trying to avoid admitting you lied. You are a PATHETIC WRETCH, Who and nobody should EVER BELIEVE A WORD YOU SAY because this little episode of lying and evading is just the tip of the iceburg with you, Who. And you talk about dignity? Truth? Manners? HONESTY? You have no idea what ANY OF THOSE THINGS ARE and you prove it every day.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 01:21:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 10:04:00, TheWho wrote:
"QuoteDJ, Wrote:
What you fail to recognize is that my "opinion," as you state, is the prevailing view of professionals around the world, just like evolution and the spherical globe.
You made the statement ,DJ, the burden is on you to back up what you say not the other way around.
Boy this is really getting old and this is going on for a week now. Thats a big statement, DJ.
Provide the data to back your statement; I am not doing any more work for you. If you can prove me a liar I will admit it like a gentleman. Again, Let me know what you find....."
First, YOU made the statement that 1.5% of professionals agree with me. You used "10,000" as the number of practicing therapists in the US. And you fallaciously said that ONLY those who signed the ASTART letter agree with me (That's incredibly fallacious logic, but we can't expect more than that from a complete moron).
Now, would you agree that everyone who signed the ASTART letter DOES in fact agree with me? That's your statement and you used it to support your position.
Well, the American Psychological Association DID SIGN. The APA has over 150,000 MEMBERS, Who. This of course, is only ONE of the signators - there are several other professional associations consisting of thousands of members each.
So, this is where we're at, Who: AT AN ABSOLUTE MINIMUM 150,000 PROFESSIONALS AGREE WITH ME. And that's a DOCUMENTED FACT.
You're claim of 1.5% is based upon two lies:
Lie #1: "There are 10,000 mental health professionals in the country." THIS IS A PROVABLE, MADE UP LIE. It also goes to show how precious little you know about the "mental health community."
Lie #2: "Only 150 people signed the ASTART letter." THIS IS A PROVABLE LIE.
WHO, YOU ARE SOOOO FULL OF SHIT THAT YOU'RE EYES ARE BROWN.
YOU ARE A LIAR. AN UNABASHED, UNMITIGATED LIAR.
You took two false premises that you made up in your head and used them to draw an utterly ridiculous and false conclusion. Not only that, but you've spent hours over many days trying to avoid admitting you lied. You are a PATHETIC WRETCH, Who and nobody should EVER BELIEVE A WORD YOU SAY because this little episode of lying and evading is just the tip of the iceburg with you, Who. And you talk about dignity? Truth? Manners? HONESTY? You have no idea what ANY OF THOSE THINGS ARE and you prove it every day.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-06-26 10:22 ]
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 01:24:00 PM
Your attempts fail, no matter how many times you yell "Liar, Liar" You really need to come to the table with the data to support your claim and back up your statements.
Your claim that professionals over seas dont refer is also false. Give it up.
I am not going to provide you with anything.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 01:26:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 10:24:00, TheWho wrote:
"Sorry DJ, your trying to put it on me !! I didnt make the statement !!!
Your attempts fail, no matter how many times you yell "Liar, Liar" You really need to come to the table with the data to support your claim and back up your statements.
Your claim that professionals over seas dont refer is also false. Give it up.
I am not going to provide you with anything."
I guess you didn't read the previous post. I have PROVEN WITHOUT DOUBT that YOU ARE A HUGE LIAR. Reed it and weep, dingbat.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 01:28:00 PM
Quote
I am not going to provide you with anything.
Except more lies and evasion of responsibility for items that I QUOTED from your posts.
You are a liar. I've proven it beyond any doubt using your words.
Deal with it. You have no credibility on any issue because you don't tell the truth, Who, You can't blame me for your lies.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 01:33:00 PM
Quote
DJ Wrote:
As for my assertion, since there ARE NO PROGRAMS in the rest of the world , (save for a few American ones in foreign lands),
How do you know this? You don?t, cite your source.
Quote
In the US, there are only a few that refer to programs - a handful
How do you substantiate this? Only 5 professionals in the U.S. refer to RTCs and TBS?s ?
Quote
In any case, obviously THE VAST MAJORITY of professionals worldwide don't support or refer to programs BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T SEEN THE NEED TO CREATE THEM - therefore they cannot send kids to them.
In my daughters peer group and the one in back of hers there was a child from England and one from another European country. They were referred by professionals from their own respective countries.
I guess we can stop this now, you are embarrassing yourself, grasping at straws. You don?t know what you are talking about, you make it up as you go along.
Go harass someone else, I am not going to feed your ego.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 01:39:00 PM
Are there 10,000 professional therapists in the US? NO. There are hundreds of thousands. Where did you get 10,000????
Who, you can squirm all you want, but I quoted you and showed you you were wrong and proved the only source you had was your own made up "opinion."
You LIED, you tried to cover it up, you tried to change the subject dozens of times and we're back to your lies again.
ADMIT YOU LIED, Who, LIKE YOU SAID YOU WOULD, or was that just ANOTHER lie....?
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2006, 01:46:00 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 01:47:00 PM
I just don?t think anyone can state how many professionals in the world agree with you, DJ. It is an impossible task, let it go. There is no way to support it, I don?t believe any one can. I was a flighty unfortunate comment you made. I would have never made a big deal out of it if you hadn?t pressed it so hard.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 01:50:00 PM
Pure, unadulterated, absolute evidence to show that The Who makes up "data" to appear as if he knows something about the subject matter, which he obviously does not.
BTW, what's wrong with holding The Who accountable? Why are you mad at me? he's the one responsible for this event. He could have been a man about it and just admitted it, but he's a worm, not a man.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 01:52:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 10:47:00, TheWho wrote:
"Boy , DJ, I have to say you are a persistent and sometimes desperate person when you get caught in a tangle. You are so desperate on this one that I sort of feel bad, like I should post an obvious lie somewhere so you can call me on it and feel good about yourself again.
I just don?t think anyone can state how many professionals in the world agree with you, DJ. It is an impossible task, let it go. There is no way to support it, I don?t believe any one can. I was a flighty unfortunate comment you made. I would have never made a big deal out of it if you hadn?t pressed it so hard.
"
So your source for your numbers is...?
I thought so. COMPLETE PREVARICATOR.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 01:59:00 PM
Quote
"I just don?t think anyone can state how many professionals in the world agree with you, DJ. It is an impossible task, let it go. There is no way to support it, I don?t believe any one can."
The Who at the beginning of his little lying spree:
Quote
Posted: 2006-06-22 14:54:00
"You had approx 130 people sign the petition well lets say 150 to give you the best edge. There are probably 10,000 professionals in the U.S. (I know you compared your position to the whole world, but I dont have time nor the inclination to humor you). So you have 1.5 % of the professionals sign the paper. So if you had 1.5 % ( that agree with you) that leaves 98.5% that don?t. I would call that an over whelming majority."
Ooops! Just a little more lying in response to your other lies :lol:
YOU ARE PATHETIC.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-06-26 11:00 ]
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 02:04:00 PM
Quote
DJ Wrote:
As for my assertion, since there ARE NO PROGRAMS in the rest of the world , (save for a few American ones in foreign lands),
How do you know this? You don?t, cite your source.
Quote
In the US, there are only a few that refer to programs - a handful
How do you substantiate this? Only 5 professionals in the U.S. refer to RTCs and TBS?s ?
Quote
In any case, obviously THE VAST MAJORITY of professionals worldwide don't support or refer to programs BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T SEEN THE NEED TO CREATE THEM - therefore they cannot send kids to them.
In my daughters peer group and the one in back of hers there was a child from England and one from another European country. They were referred by professionals from their own respective countries.
I guess we can stop this now, you are embarrassing yourself, grasping at straws. You don?t know what you are talking about, you make it up as you go along.
Go harass someone else, I am not going to feed your ego. You havent proved the majority of the professional agree with you, DJ. Sorry, you can name call all you want
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 02:08:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 11:04:00, TheWho wrote:
"QuoteDJ Wrote:
As for my assertion, since there ARE NO PROGRAMS in the rest of the world , (save for a few American ones in foreign lands),
How do you know this? You don?t, cite your source.QuoteIn the US, there are only a few that refer to programs - a handful
How do you substantiate this? Only 5 professionals in the U.S. refer to RTCs and TBS?s ?QuoteIn any case, obviously THE VAST MAJORITY of professionals worldwide don't support or refer to programs BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T SEEN THE NEED TO CREATE THEM - therefore they cannot send kids to them.
In my daughters peer group and the one in back of hers there was a child from England and one from another European country. They were referred by professionals from their own respective countries.
I guess we can stop this now, you are embarrassing yourself, grasping at straws. You don?t know what you are talking about, you make it up as you go along.
Go harass someone else, I am not going to feed your ego. You havent proved the majority of the professional agree with you, DJ. Sorry, you can name call all you want
"
Let's clear up your mess first, Who. I can back up what I say and I will. NOW, WHAT ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE BEEN AVOIDING ALL THIS TIME?
Is that all you can say for yourself?
You are one serious LAME BRAIN, Who.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 02:22:00 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 02:31:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 11:04:00, TheWho wrote:
"QuoteDJ Wrote:
As for my assertion, since there ARE NO PROGRAMS in the rest of the world , (save for a few American ones in foreign lands),
How do you know this? You don?t, cite your source.QuoteIn the US, there are only a few that refer to programs - a handful
How do you substantiate this? Only 5 professionals in the U.S. refer to RTCs and TBS?s ?QuoteIn any case, obviously THE VAST MAJORITY of professionals worldwide don't support or refer to programs BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T SEEN THE NEED TO CREATE THEM - therefore they cannot send kids to them.
In my daughters peer group and the one in back of hers there was a child from England and one from another European country. They were referred by professionals from their own respective countries.
I guess we can stop this now, you are embarrassing yourself, grasping at straws. You don?t know what you are talking about, you make it up as you go along.
Go harass someone else, I am not going to feed your ego. You havent proved the majority of the professional agree with you, DJ. Sorry, you can name call all you want
"
Europe:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n ... ram+europe (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-35,GGLG:en&q=teen+help+program+europe)
No programs found.
Asia:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n ... ogram+asia (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-35,GGLG:en&q=teen+help+program+asia)
No programs there.
In Africa:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n ... ram+africa (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-35,GGLG:en&q=teen+help+program+africa)
Nothing there.
Australia:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n ... +australia (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-35,GGLG:en&q=teen+help+program+australia)
Nothing there either.
USA:
66,900,000 Hits And known programs start right at the top of the list.
So, it's safe to say that if there even are any programs outside the US, they aren't very well known.
Quote
How do you substantiate this? Only 5 professionals in the U.S. refer to RTCs and TBS?s ?
YOU said this, not me. This is called "misquoting" or, in your case "lying."
Quote
In my daughters peer group and the one in back of hers there was a child from England and one from another European country. They were referred by professionals from their own respective countries.
I can believe that there are a few from other countries, like I saw on Brat Camp. However, I don't believe you when you say it because you have a tendency to just make everything up.
Now, back you your spurious claim...Are you now going to admit that you made up the number 10,000? How about 150?
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 02:33:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 11:22:00, TheWho wrote:
"Okay Back it up, Lets start with England and France. Where is your data that says the professionals in thoses countries agree with you. I am not looking for all of them just enough to tip the scales to form a majority will do."
I did one better. I covered all of Europe. No programs to speak of whatsoever.
Now, you are supposed to be taking responsibility for something... Oh yeah, your incessant week-long lying spree.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 02:34:00 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 02:36:00 PM
Keep going.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 02:36:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 10:59:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"The Who today:Quote
"I just don?t think anyone can state how many professionals in the world agree with you, DJ. It is an impossible task, let it go. There is no way to support it, I don?t believe any one can."
The Who at the beginning of his little lying spree:Quote
Posted: 2006-06-22 14:54:00
"You had approx 130 people sign the petition well lets say 150 to give you the best edge. There are probably 10,000 professionals in the U.S. (I know you compared your position to the whole world, but I dont have time nor the inclination to humor you). So you have 1.5 % of the professionals sign the paper. So if you had 1.5 % ( that agree with you) that leaves 98.5% that don?t. I would call that an over whelming majority."
Ooops! Just a little more lying in response to your other lies :lol:
YOU ARE PATHETIC.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-06-26 11:00 ]"
Still waiting for you to explain your complete reversal of your position.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 02:37:00 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 02:39:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 11:36:00, TheWho wrote:
"In just one snap shot in time I saw two kids who were referred to a TBS from their respective countries in Europe by professionals in those countries.
Keep going.
"
Quote
"I saw"
I can't accept this from you. You lie too much. Show evidence or drop the claim. I already know that there is some tiny fraction of kids from outside the US, but I just can't take your example as one of them because you just lie way too much.
I already showed you that there aren't any programs in Europe. No need to "keep going."
I'm done. You're wrong and proven so once again.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 02:41:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 11:37:00, TheWho wrote:
" Not looking for programs, but professionals who support your position on TBS's."
If there are no programs or TBS's, how can anyone support them? They don't exist there.
Besides, it's obvious that you are just chasing your tail to avoid the fact that yo lied through your teeth and fabricated your data. This is just more of your avoidance.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 02:45:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 11:41:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:They dont have to exist in the country the child lives in. They can send/recommend the child to America or South America or some country which has programs. If they do recommend a program from Europe then they would not agree with your position.
"Quote
On 2006-06-26 11:37:00, TheWho wrote:
" Not looking for programs, but professionals who support your position on TBS's."
If there are no programs or TBS's, how can anyone support them? They don't exist there.
Besides, it's obvious that you are just chasing your tail to avoid the fact that yo lied through your teeth and fabricated your data. This is just more of your avoidance.
"
Your statement was about Professionals, not number of programs, lets stay focused.
Post by: odie on June 26, 2006, 02:50:00 PM
Whenever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force.
Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 02:56:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 11:50:00, odie wrote:
"Just trying to get a little clarity here because I seem to be a bit confused. DJ are you trying to say there are no boarding schools or programs for kids outside the USA?Whenever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force."
Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798
He made a claim that the majority of professionals around the world agree with his opinions or better said:
Quote
DJ, Wrote:
What you fail to recognize is that my "opinion," as you state, is the prevailing view of professionals around the world, just like evolution and the spherical globe.
He claims not to have found any TBS's in Europe, yet, but the info we are looking for is the opinions of the professionals in other countries and whether they favor TBS or not.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 02:59:00 PM
Based on the lack of evidence to show that any practitioner has ever sent a kid to a TBS, it is reasonable to conclude that European professionals are not referring any kids to TBS's in more than a tiny fraction of cases.
Since there seems to be no evidence to show that this is ghappening, you'll have to show some evidence that it is.
So, I'll have to settle for the fact that I was absolutely right about American practiotioners and the only "evidence" you supplied as a refutation was a lie that you made up (you didn't even have a clue as to how many practiioners there are in the US - you said 10,000, but the APA ALONE has over 150,000 - you're not even in the ballpark). And, since you know so painfully little even about the number of professionals in the US (which you underestimated by at least 30-fold - a HUGE MISTAKE) you obviously know nothing about how they do their business.
So, I'm satisfied that you were 100% wrong and that the only "evidence" you supplied was something you made up.
Post by: odie on June 26, 2006, 03:01:00 PM
The Bible and the Church have been the greatest stumbling blocks in the way of women's emancipation.
--Elizabeth Cady-Stanton
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 03:03:00 PM
Quote
we are looking for is the opinions of the professionals in other countries and whether they favor TBS or not.
There AREN'T any, Who. There are no programs to support. How can people support something that doesn't exist? That's a silly notion.
Not to mention that you've conceeded the point in regard to America where programs DO exist and are not supported by professionals.
Still waiting for you to give the basis of your remarks that there are 10,000 professionals practicing in the US and 98.5% of them support programs like you said. Please, cite your sources like I have.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 03:04:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 11:59:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"I can not find a single link to any article, journal, blog, bulletin board or any other publication whatsoever that shows any referral to a TBS from a European practitioner.
Based on the lack of evidence to show that any practitioner has ever sent a kid to a TBS, it is reasonable to conclude that European professionals are not referring any kids to TBS's in more than a tiny fraction of cases.
Since there seems to be no evidence to show that this is ghappening, you'll have to show some evidence that it is.
So, I'll have to settle for the fact that I was absolutely right about American practiotioners and the only "evidence" you supplied as a refutation was a lie that you made up (you didn't even have a clue as to how many practiioners there are in the US - you said 10,000, but the APA ALONE has over 150,000 - you're not even in the ballpark). And, since you know so painfully little even about the number of professionals in the US (which you underestimated by at least 30-fold - a HUGE MISTAKE) you obviously know nothing about how they do their business.
So, I'm satisfied that you were 100% wrong and that the only "evidence" you supplied was something you made up.
"
Ha, Ha Ha, nice research DJ. All right, we can call it quits, I'll let you off the hook.
I think we made a hit to Gingers server with about 6 pages or so.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 03:06:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 12:03:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Quote
we are looking for is the opinions of the professionals in other countries and whether they favor TBS or not.
There AREN'T any, Who. There are no programs to support. How can people support something that doesn't exist? That's a silly notion.
Not to mention that you've conceeded the point in regard to America where programs DO exist and are not supported by professionals.
Still waiting for you to give the basis of your remarks that there are 10,000 professionals practicing in the US and 98.5% of them support programs like you said. Please, cite your sources like I have.
"
There are many programs around the world. A professional can recommend and send a child out of country. I already gave you two first hand examples.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 03:19:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 12:06:00, TheWho wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-26 12:03:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Quote
we are looking for is the opinions of the professionals in other countries and whether they favor TBS or not.
There AREN'T any, Who. There are no programs to support. How can people support something that doesn't exist? That's a silly notion.
Not to mention that you've conceeded the point in regard to America where programs DO exist and are not supported by professionals.
Still waiting for you to give the basis of your remarks that there are 10,000 professionals practicing in the US and 98.5% of them support programs like you said. Please, cite your sources like I have.
"
There are many programs around the world. A professional can recommend and send a child out of country. I already gave you two first hand examples."
Like I said, your "first hand examples" can be discarded because you lie too much about everything. How could I possibly know that you just didn't make that example up, just like you did when citing the number of professionals in practice?
I mean, c'mon, I can't believe anything you say.
As far as "many programs around the world," I found none. If there were "many" don't you think there would be evidence thereof? There isn't.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 03:23:00 PM
Quote
Ha, Ha Ha, nice research DJ. All right, we can call it quits, I'll let you off the hook...
No need. I fully supported my claims with citations.
Now, as for you, please CITE where you came up with your numbers. POST THE LINKS. Or you can finally admit you made them up. Either way.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 03:26:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 11:50:00, odie wrote:
"Just trying to get a little clarity here because I seem to be a bit confused. DJ are you trying to say there are no boarding schools or programs for kids outside the USA?Whenever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force."
Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798
No, Odie. I'm saying there are no "TBS's" or "EG" "schools" outside the US save for the ones run by US corporations, like WWASPS.
There are boarding schools everywhere, but teen lockups, TBS's and EG seem to be strictly American phenomena.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 03:34:00 PM
Hmmm. I will let you think about that one before I hold you to it. I would rather avoid another 6 pages of flame.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 03:50:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 12:34:00, TheWho wrote:
"So your professional position is that kids have never been referred to TBS from other countries into US schools and vice versa and there are no TBS's outside the US.
Hmmm. I will let you think about that one before I hold you to it. I would rather avoid another 6 pages of flame.
"
No, that's what YOU are SAYING I said.
Use the quote button or don't bother characterizing what I say because you don't exactly have a good record with accuracy - you lie about everything.
I already know that some kids come from other countries to TBS's - I had one on my caseload at HLA. However, he wasn't referred by any professional. His folks hit the website and sent him, as is the case with most kids at TBS - they've never been diagnosed and referred by a therapist. 65% are referred by EdCons according to statistics from NATSAP.
The only TBS's (really teen lockups, not schools - not even pretend schools like ASR) that I have been able to locate outside the US are owned and operated by US corporations.
So, again, CITE YOUR SOURCE for your claims that 98.5% of professionals support and refer to programs. You've already conceeded the point and abandoned that statement, but you never said why you won't cite your source that led you to to post such utter nonsense in the first place.
SHOW YOUR WORK or admit you lied.
And it hasn't been 6 pages of "flaming." It's been six DAYS of you avoiding accountability for what you said. You're supposed to be an adult, but you act like a recalcitrant child. That's not a flame - it is evidenced by your BEHAVIOR.
CITE THAT SOURCE or admit you made it up and I'll stop asking. The only way you'll ever get a modicum of respect or credibility is to admit you lied, make it right and THEN move on. What's funny is that if this were your kid lying to face over and over after she was caught red-handed you'd have her locked up in a program in a heartbeat. Why can't you hold yourself to the standards to which you hold a pubescent girl? Pretty sad, my man, pretty sad.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 03:58:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 12:50:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-26 12:34:00, TheWho wrote:
"So your professional position is that kids have never been referred to TBS from other countries into US schools and vice versa and there are no TBS's outside the US.
Hmmm. I will let you think about that one before I hold you to it. I would rather avoid another 6 pages of flame.
"
No, that's what YOU are SAYING I said.
Use the quote button or don't bother characterizing what I say because you don't exactly have a good record with accuracy - you lie about everything.
I already know that some kids come from other countries to TBS's - I had one on my caseload at HLA. However, he wasn't referred by any professional. His folks hit the website and sent him, as is the case with most kids at TBS - they've never been diagnosed and referred by a therapist. 65% are referred by EdCons according to statistics from NATSAP.
The only TBS's (really teen lockups, not schools - not even pretend schools like ASR) that I have been able to locate outside the US are owned and operated by US corporations.
So, again, CITE YOUR SOURCE for your claims that 98.5% of professionals support and refer to programs. You've already conceeded the point and abandoned that statement, but you never said why you won't cite your source that led you to to post such utter nonsense in the first place.
SHOW YOUR WORK or admit you lied.
And it hasn't been 6 pages of "flaming." It's been six DAYS of you avoiding accountability for what you said. You're supposed to be an adult, but you act like a recalcitrant child. That's not a flame - it is evidenced by your BEHAVIOR.
CITE THAT SOURCE or admit you made it up and I'll stop asking. The only way you'll ever get a modicum of respect or credibility is to admit you lied, make it right and THEN move on. What's funny is that if this were your kid lying to face over and over after she was caught red-handed you'd have her locked up in a program in a heartbeat. Why can't you hold yourself to the standards to which you hold a pubescent girl? Pretty sad, my man, pretty sad.
"
The 2 that came to ASR were referred by therapists in their home country, so the professionas in other countries do refer, it is now a question of how many.
We need to quantify if that number is better than 50% that support your position.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 04:02:00 PM
I wont brow beat you like you have done me all day and call names. Just want you to step up and defend your statement.
So how are you going to quantify the number of professionals in other countries and how many take your position or not.
Post by: Deborah on June 26, 2006, 04:10:00 PM
Source please.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2006, 04:21:00 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 04:26:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 13:10:00, Deborah wrote:
"***The 2 that came to ASR were referred by therapists in their home country,
Source please."
The child from England was seeing a therapist for a few years, per the father and recommended SUWS and ASR. The child was tested at a local hospital prior to travel. I remember this because they were stressed about not making it here in time to start wilderness. The others child?s? direction was talked about because the child was from a well known family and all of us parents would exchange stories of our struggles.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 05:17:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 13:26:00, TheWho wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-26 13:10:00, Deborah wrote:
"***The 2 that came to ASR were referred by therapists in their home country,
Source please."
The child from England was seeing a therapist for a few years, per the father and recommended SUWS and ASR. The child was tested at a local hospital prior to travel. I remember this because they were stressed about not making it here in time to start wilderness. The others child?s? direction was talked about because the child was from a well known family and all of us parents would exchange stories of our struggles."
I don't believe this at all. Sounds like BS.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 05:21:00 PM
"You had approx 130 people sign the petition well lets say 150 to give you the best edge. There are probably 10,000 professionals in the U.S. (I know you compared your position to the whole world, but I dont have time nor the inclination to humor you). So you have 1.5 % of the professionals sign the paper. So if you had 1.5 % ( that agree with you) that leaves 98.5% that don?t. I would call that an over whelming majority."
Who can you explain this quote? Where did you get your numbers? You ask others to be specific and they are. How come you are avoiding answering this simple question for days on end? You said "98.5%" but it seems to be based on grossly inaccurate numbers. Why do you continue to stand by this obvious inaccuracy?
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2006, 05:26:00 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2006, 05:28:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 12:58:00, TheWho wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-26 12:50:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-26 12:34:00, TheWho wrote:
"So your professional position is that kids have never been referred to TBS from other countries into US schools and vice versa and there are no TBS's outside the US.
Hmmm. I will let you think about that one before I hold you to it. I would rather avoid another 6 pages of flame.
"
No, that's what YOU are SAYING I said.
Use the quote button or don't bother characterizing what I say because you don't exactly have a good record with accuracy - you lie about everything.
I already know that some kids come from other countries to TBS's - I had one on my caseload at HLA. However, he wasn't referred by any professional. His folks hit the website and sent him, as is the case with most kids at TBS - they've never been diagnosed and referred by a therapist. 65% are referred by EdCons according to statistics from NATSAP.
The only TBS's (really teen lockups, not schools - not even pretend schools like ASR) that I have been able to locate outside the US are owned and operated by US corporations.
So, again, CITE YOUR SOURCE for your claims that 98.5% of professionals support and refer to programs. You've already conceeded the point and abandoned that statement, but you never said why you won't cite your source that led you to to post such utter nonsense in the first place.
SHOW YOUR WORK or admit you lied.
And it hasn't been 6 pages of "flaming." It's been six DAYS of you avoiding accountability for what you said. You're supposed to be an adult, but you act like a recalcitrant child. That's not a flame - it is evidenced by your BEHAVIOR.
CITE THAT SOURCE or admit you made it up and I'll stop asking. The only way you'll ever get a modicum of respect or credibility is to admit you lied, make it right and THEN move on. What's funny is that if this were your kid lying to face over and over after she was caught red-handed you'd have her locked up in a program in a heartbeat. Why can't you hold yourself to the standards to which you hold a pubescent girl? Pretty sad, my man, pretty sad.
"
The 2 that came to ASR were referred by therapists in their home country, so the professionas in other countries do refer, it is now a question of how many.
We need to quantify if that number is better than 50% that support your position."
because you can't be believed, the number stands at zero. so far as we know, no kids were refered by professionals outside the united states. with your track record I want you to provide verifiable sources. your word is no good about anything.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2006, 05:29:00 PM
How could you POSSIBLY know about so many ASR students and their families if you don't work....I mean shill for them? :???:
If the school is sharing this information with you freely (if you are not in fact an employee/ed con) then I would think that there would be some confidentiality issues here.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 05:32:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 14:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"There is a current student from England at ASR now.
"
No this was when my daughter attended.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2006, 05:32:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 14:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Posted: 2006-06-22 14:54:00
"You had approx 130 people sign the petition well lets say 150 to give you the best edge. There are probably 10,000 professionals in the U.S. (I know you compared your position to the whole world, but I dont have time nor the inclination to humor you). So you have 1.5 % of the professionals sign the paper. So if you had 1.5 % ( that agree with you) that leaves 98.5% that don?t. I would call that an over whelming majority."
Who can you explain this quote? Where did you get your numbers? You ask others to be specific and they are. How come you are avoiding answering this simple question for days on end? You said "98.5%" but it seems to be based on grossly inaccurate numbers. Why do you continue to stand by this obvious inaccuracy?
"
I have a feeling that The Who failed his statistics and logic classes if in fact he ever took them.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 05:35:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 14:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"WOW who...you suuuuuure do seem to have ALOT of contact with program parents...even before they supposedly send their child to ASR/SUWS...and even the foreign ones at that. :roll:
How could you POSSIBLY know about so many ASR students and their families if you don't work....I mean shill for them? :???:
If the school is sharing this information with you freely (if you are not in fact an employee/ed con) then I would think that there would be some confidentiality issues here."
no this was during the time my daughter attended. The only parents you get to meet are the ones in your childs peer group and maybe a few others who are there visiting or crossing in our visits. I didnt know any of these families prior to my daughter going.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 05:43:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-26 14:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Posted: 2006-06-22 14:54:00
"You had approx 130 people sign the petition well lets say 150 to give you the best edge. There are probably 10,000 professionals in the U.S. (I know you compared your position to the whole world, but I dont have time nor the inclination to humor you). So you have 1.5 % of the professionals sign the paper. So if you had 1.5 % ( that agree with you) that leaves 98.5% that don?t. I would call that an over whelming majority."
Who can you explain this quote? Where did you get your numbers? You ask others to be specific and they are. How come you are avoiding answering this simple question for days on end? You said "98.5%" but it seems to be based on grossly inaccurate numbers. Why do you continue to stand by this obvious inaccuracy?
"
I dont,we havent addressed these numbers yet. Yes, that 10,000 number does seem a little low (maybe way too conservative, probably could add another zero and then some). When we get to it, maybe DJ can give us a more accurate number since he is in the industry, but we have some unfinished business first, to cover. The 130 number is a list that DJ gave me from A Start.
Whether it is 99% or 51%, what we need to establish first, is the percent of professionals (in the world) who support sending kids to TBS's and those that dont.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2006, 05:53:00 PM
Quote
because you can't be believed, the number stands at zero. so far as we know, no kids were refered by professionals outside the united states. with your track record I want you to provide verifiable sources. your word is no good about anything.
So who gets to decide that you?
You know I cant give out peoples names on the web, there is no way to verify it without exposing some childs name, which isn?t right. If you cant believe what I say then it ends here for you. You take the position that no child has ever been referred to a TBS outside of the country, ever?
I know of 2 personally and I have only met a couple of dozen parents. There is a disconnect somewhere.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2006, 06:06:00 PM
PS I am NOT the who
Post by: TheWho on June 27, 2006, 08:43:00 AM
Bye
Post by: Troll Control on June 27, 2006, 10:17:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-06-27 05:43:00, TheWho wrote:
"Well, everyone have a very nice summer. Our car has arrived, we are off on our travels, my work is done, for now. I will check in on everyone in September. I have learned much here over the past year from most of you, I sincerely thank those who shared their experiences and those who had the patience to listen to others opinions which were not in line with their own. Keep telling your stories, it will help others find the courage to speak up and talk about their experiences, help them heal and ultimately have an effect on the industry in a positive way. Your work will bear fruit, in time.
Bye
"
Too many lies to cover up, hide from, spin and deflect. The workload got too big sweeping all that bullshit under the rug. It was only a matter of time until the weight of your own dishonesty got the better of you. Bye.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2006, 12:22:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2006, 12:26:00 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 27, 2006, 12:33:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-06-27 09:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Nope, TW is off to start his own TBS "business". He was just testing the waters here. As a "businessman" he sees the profit potential. Of course without knowing who he really is we won't ever know when he does it but from reading his posts here and on other threads it is obviously that is what he intends to do if he can :evil: "
I just don't see how someone that dumb and obvious can actually pull it off. It takes someone cunning and slick to get around the obstacles and get asses in chairs. He's just SO PHONY and weird that I can't see him getting the pieces put together.
Now, he COULD pay someone to do it for him...
Post by: Nihilanthic on June 27, 2006, 03:41:00 PM
Then, it wouldnt be a program anymore. It would be a boarding school that offered therapy. :rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2006, 05:18:00 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on June 27, 2006, 10:00:00 PM
I dont even know where to begin after reading all that.
Cindy since Im sure youre still lurking around and have neither a family to travel with nor a family that loves you. Since that is probably the case Ill go ahead and tell you have got to be the dumbest person on the planet.
Really.
That and I want you to seek help...the professional kind.
Anyone who is so persistent in refusing to acknowledge when theyve been beaten to the point of blind idiocy has seriously got some issues.
My God Cindy even Bullfrog shuts up for a few days when shes proven wrong, yet you insist on digging yourself further and further until youve been nothing more than a clown.
Just admit the truth. Youve provided nothing but guesses and conjectures for everything youve said on here. Every "fact" youve offered has been pulled directly from your ass. You are in fact a waste of a human being.
Get help soon.
Post by: Troll Control on January 09, 2007, 05:20:02 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
OK, here's The Who lying through his teeth yet again (surprise, surprise).
THIS is the original beginning of the argument where YOU said "The overwhelming majority of professionals believe these schools are making a big difference in these kids lives and are responsible for turning them around and getting them on track..." This is the very beginning. You also went back and edited your post later to remove this, but, of course I had already quoted you, so the cat was out of the bag at that point.Quote
On 2006-06-21 09:21:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Quote
The overwhelming majority of professionals believe these schools are making a big difference in these kids lives and are responsible for turning them around and getting them on track...
This is an unmitigated crock of shit. Show the documentation that supports this ridiculous notion.Quote
And yes I believe we are all on equal footing and have a right to state our opinions from our own experiences.
Everyone here has the unabridged right to post what they want. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Your opinion happens to be wrong. It is so wrong that you have to fabricate statements like the one above stating the "overwhelming majority of professionals" recommend this treatment. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. But, hey, that never stops you! :lol:
"
Again, I'll ask you: Can you provide evidence that "The overwhelming majority of professionals believe these schools are making a big difference in these kids lives and are responsible for turning them around and getting them on track..." or can't you?
You've spent two days dodging the issue, editing your posts and lying like a rug to avoid answering for this statement. You said it, now back it up.
You also said "The professionals don't agree with you, DJ" but I was able to provide a list of at least 130 individuals and a half-dozen professional societies consisting of thousands of members. You have provided exactly NOTHING to support your claim.
That's the difference between you and me, Who. I say what I mean, I am accountable for it and provide evidence to support it. You lie, make things up, edit your posts to remove the lies you've been caught in and sign my name to anonymous posts that I didn't write.
You are a pathetic individual.
For the late-comers... The Who has been fully owned time and again by several regular posters.
Bump this thread up so everyone can get a clear picture of what an idiot The Who actually is...
Post by: TheWho on January 09, 2007, 07:17:24 PM
You had approx 130 people sign the petition well lets say 150 to give you the best edge. There are probably 10,000 professionals in the U.S. (I know you compared your position to the whole world, but I dont have time nor the inclination to humor you). So you have 1.5 % of the professionals sign the paper. So if you had 1.5 % ( that agree with you) that leaves 98.5% that don?t. I would call that an over whelming majority.
So lets say there are only 1,000 professionals in the U.S. you are still only looking at 15%, Hardly a majority.
You would need to convince me that there are only 300 professionals in the U.S. for me to consider redoing my numbers and even if there were, you need to get busy and takle Europe and Asia.... sorry but we need to stay consistent.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll make it easier for you:
The organizations A-Start stated signed the letter to congress:
American Psychological Association
American Association of Community Psychiatrists
American Orthopsychiatric Association
Child Welfare League of America
Federation of Families for Children?s Mental Health
National Youth Advocate Program, Inc.
The following refused to sign:
American Medical association (AMA)
http://www.ama-assn.org/ (http://www.ama-assn.org/)
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
American Society for Adolescent Psychiatry
Research & Training Center on Children's Mental Health
The Research and Training Center for Children's Mental Health
Child and Adolescent Services Research Center
Center for Study and Prevention of Violence.
There are more, these are the ones I was able to locate in the time I had last night.
They didn?t sign DJ, they may believe in the concept but they didn?t sign. They may have it on their web site, but they didn?t sign. No matter how you spin it they are not on the list of signatures, period, why? Some didn?t believe in the wording, others were not invited to participate in its conception.
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2007, 07:28:34 PM
Quote from: ""The APA's website""
With 150,000 members, APA is the largest association of psychologists worldwide.
Since the APA, as an organization devoted to unifying and streamlining practices, signed for all of them, and as you've said that there are only 10,000 professionals of this kind in the US, that means that 1500% of professionals have been recorded as agreeing with it.
FIFTEEN HUNDRED PERCENT. Wow. You really can't beat that. I mean, maybe 95% of Fornits members hate the concept of programs. Maybe 99% of registered regulars do. But, statistically speaking, the APA hates them more than fifteen times more.
C'mon guys! We've gotta catch up here!
Post by: RobertBruce on January 09, 2007, 07:31:55 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 09, 2007, 08:00:35 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
Quote from: ""The APA's website""With 150,000 members, APA is the largest association of psychologists worldwide.
Since the APA, as an organization devoted to unifying and streamlining practices, signed for all of them, and as you've said that there are only 10,000 professionals of this kind in the US, that means that 1500% of professionals have been recorded as agreeing with it.
FIFTEEN HUNDRED PERCENT. Wow. You really can't beat that. I mean, maybe 95% of Fornits members hate the concept of programs. Maybe 99% of registered regulars do. But, statistically speaking, the APA hates them more than fifteen times more.
C'mon guys! We've gotta catch up here!
Thank you for bringing it up, so what we are saying is the head of the APA signs a petition saying he is (for lack of a better example) "pro choice". That doesn?t mean all 150,000 members agree with him. You need to get individual consensus. That did not happen. So that waters it down even more?.150 signatures against 150,000 members and that is just one organization in the US. A majority claim is a joke.
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2007, 08:02:30 PM
This thread is about as exciting as watching paint dry.
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2007, 08:09:13 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This thread is about as exciting as watching paint dry.
Yeah... really, man!
Just put me back in the toke-esphere.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 09, 2007, 08:19:51 PM
Quote
Thank you for bringing it up, so what we are saying is the head of the APA signs a petition saying he is (for lack of a better example) "pro choice". That doesn?t mean all 150,000 members agree with him. I want you to get individual consensus. That did not happen. So that waters it down even more?.150 signatures against 150,000 members and that is just one organization in the US. A majority claim is a joke.
Seriously now are you just here to stir up the pot a bit or are you really this dumb?
Before I tear your (once again) nonsensical logic apart let me ask you; Do you know what a resolution is and how it is passed?
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2007, 08:27:59 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Just put me back in the toke-esphere.
You got it my fine, fine nigga! :smokin:
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2007, 08:41:09 PM
Post by: hanzomon4 on January 09, 2007, 08:47:40 PM
(http://http://www.sexforums.com/images/smilies/mhihi.gif) (http://http://www.sexforums.com/images/smilies/rofl3.gif)
Who, tell me you are not this dumb....
Ok really stop playing...
Tell me someone is paying you money to act this stupid...
You're killin me Who, I'm dying!!! (http://http://www.sexforums.com/images/smilies/lol_28.gif)
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2007, 08:51:12 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Smoke some sticky buds tonight!!
Yes let's remain in the toke-esphere!
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2007, 08:52:37 PM
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
This thread is TOO FUNNY
(http://http://www.sexforums.com/images/smilies/mhihi.gif) (http://http://www.sexforums.com/images/smilies/rofl3.gif)
Who, tell me you are not this dumb....
Ok really stop playing...
Tell me someone is paying you money to act this stupid...
You're killin me Who, I'm dying!!! (http://http://www.sexforums.com/images/smilies/lol_28.gif)
Thanks to weed & RobertBruce, TheWho has had an epiphany tonight.
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2007, 08:53:10 PM
Quote from: ""sticky""
Quote from: ""Guest""Smoke some sticky buds tonight!!Yes let's remain in the toke-esphere!
::alieneyesa:: :silly: :wave: :cry2: :smokin: :tup: ::bigmouth:: ::birthday:: ::cheers:: ::bwahaha2:: ::burger:: ::burger:: ::ftard:: ::hatter:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::noway:: ::noway:: ::puke:: ::read:: ::rainbow:: ::spam:: ::kma:: ::rocker:: ::rocker:: ::rocker:: ::rocker:: ::deal:: ::drummer:: ::drummer:: ::blushing::
Post by: TheWho on January 09, 2007, 08:56:33 PM
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
This thread is TOO FUNNY
(http://http://www.sexforums.com/images/smilies/mhihi.gif) (http://http://www.sexforums.com/images/smilies/rofl3.gif)
Who, tell me you are not this dumb....
Ok really stop playing...
Tell me someone is paying you money to act this stupid...
You're killin me Who, I'm dying!!! (http://http://www.sexforums.com/images/smilies/lol_28.gif)
(It appears you dont understand the numbers) You should have been here in June, it was smoking. Its a little boring now because most of this stuff is rehashed now and the original intent is lost. But thanks it is kind of funny when I step back.
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2007, 08:58:36 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2007, 08:58:52 PM
Quote from: ""TOKER""
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""This thread is TOO FUNNYThanks to weed & RobertBruce, TheWho has had an epiphany tonight.
(http://http://www.sexforums.com/images/smilies/mhihi.gif) (http://http://www.sexforums.com/images/smilies/rofl3.gif)
Who, tell me you are not this dumb....
Ok really stop playing...
Tell me someone is paying you money to act this stupid...
You're killin me Who, I'm dying!!! (http://http://www.sexforums.com/images/smilies/lol_28.gif)
::cheers:: :smokin:
Post by: TheWho on January 09, 2007, 09:05:46 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Don't kid yourself, it was always boring.
Yea, It was mostly a numbers slinging thread....... you said, I said etc. but it got pretty humorous towards the end.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 09, 2007, 09:07:01 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2007, 09:07:50 PM
Post by: Troll Control on January 09, 2007, 09:30:39 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 09, 2007, 09:44:46 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
You were always funny Cindy, the way you cant ever seem to grasp how wrong you are on everything. Priceless.
Lighten up a little, Robert, its not the end of the world. Who's right, who's wrong a little heat and clash of opinions. It will all be good tomorrow.....
Post by: RobertBruce on January 09, 2007, 09:47:22 PM
Post by: AtomicAnt on January 09, 2007, 10:12:57 PM
The staff has informed me you ran away and are hiding in this thread. They will be picking you up to take you to worksheets. There, you must write down every statistic you have ever heard about and used as arguments for your opinions.
Once you are finished you will be confronted. You receive no food, water, or sleep, nonstop, until you fully realize what the phrase, "Figures lie and liars figure" means.
After all, the program teaches us that the only infallible evidence as to the efficacy of programs is to be found in positive, program approved anecdotal writings.
Work your program little Who.
P.S. An Internet poll resulted in 61 percent of Americans agreeing that torture is okay in certain circumstances. That means 61 percent of Americans are wrong. It also means I don?t give a rats ass how many shrinks approve of programs or not.
Post by: TheWho on January 09, 2007, 10:23:57 PM
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
Dear Who,
The staff has informed me you ran away and are hiding in this thread. They will be picking you up to take you to worksheets. There, you must write down every statistic you have ever heard about and used as arguments for your opinions.
Once you are finished you will be confronted. You receive no food, water, or sleep, nonstop, until you fully realize what the phrase, "Figures lie and liars figure" means.
After all, the program teaches us that the only infallible evidence as to the efficacy of programs is to be found in positive, program approved anecdotal writings.
Work your program little Who.
P.S. An Internet poll resulted in 61 percent of Americans agreeing that torture is okay in certain circumstances. That means 61 percent of Americans are wrong. It also means I don?t give a rats ass how many shrinks approve of programs or not.
Nice quote.....
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2007, 10:36:04 PM
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
P.S. An Internet poll resulted in 61 percent of Americans agreeing that torture is okay in certain circumstances. That means 61 percent of Americans are wrong. It also means I don?t give a rats ass how many shrinks approve of programs or not.
:tup: :lol:
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 06:06:15 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""You were always funny Cindy, the way you cant ever seem to grasp how wrong you are on everything. Priceless.
Lighten up a little, Robert, its not the end of the world. Who's right, who's wrong a little heat and clash of opinions. It will all be good tomorrow.....
No it will not.
There are still children in the 5 to 6 figure range being tortured, neglected, held in isolation, and not given therapy if they do need it, and all of them missing out on normal filial bonding and love and normal growth and development because of this industry.
YOU will be good tomorrow. Thousands of children will most certainly not.
Post by: Troll Control on January 10, 2007, 07:30:20 AM
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 07:56:39 AM
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 07:59:47 AM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
No it will not.
There are still children in the 5 to 6 figure range being tortured, neglected, held in isolation, and not given therapy if they do need it, and all of them missing out on normal filial bonding and love and normal growth and development because of this industry.
YOU will be good tomorrow. Thousands of children will most certainly not.
I think you jumped in at the end of the conversation and missed the intent?..but anyway Niles, you should really consider editing your post before RobertB wakes up, I mean come on? ?5 to 6 figure range being tortured, neglected, held in isolation, and not given therapy if they do need it, and all of them missing out on normal filial bonding and love and normal growth and development because of this industry.? Robert is going to demand that you back this up with photos and names of the children. 5 figure range is one thing but 6 figure, we are talking about up to a million children, do you know how long it will take to document that many kids?. I referenced a small handful of posters as a population sample, I refused to reveal my sources and he flipped out, the conversation quickly deteriorated and eventually tanked and he had me against the wall accusing me of having a relationship with a woodchuck. It was horrible, Niles.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 08:00:33 AM
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 08:05:21 AM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
1,000,000 = 7 figures.
999,999 is 6 figures. You said 5 to 6 figures (10,000 - 999,999). That can be upward to a million kids.....
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 08:06:54 AM
10,000 is the lower limit, 100,000 is the upper limit.
Regardless, this is another prime example of your manipulative attempts at taking control of the direction of any conversation so you don't have to face criticism and specific factual discussion about these programs.
You also seem to care more about erroneous banter than the fact that some number of kids greater than zero are currently living through hell as we speak.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 08:13:37 AM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
I said five to six. Not UPWARDS of six.
10,000 is the lower limit, 100,000 is the upper limit.
Regardless, this is another prime example of your manipulative attempts at taking control of the direction of any conversation so you don't have to face criticism and specific factual discussion about these programs.
You also seem to care more about erroneous banter than the fact that some number of kids greater than zero are currently living through hell as we speak.
I dont really care, I was just warning you about Robert Bruce, you brought it up and you are wrong 5 to 6 figures is 10,000 to 999,999. The upper limit is 999,999.
So if there were 101,000 kids you would consider that outside of your range? Its six figures, so is 999,999. This is your upper limit.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 08:14:54 AM
That has nothing to do with why we are all here.
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2007, 08:15:32 AM
Sorry I haven't delved into the whole history behind this "donnybrook" so please forgive me if I come across as ignorant. To the questions, just what program did you attend? Or did you send your children to a program, and if this is so what program did they attend?
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 08:28:25 AM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Please stop attacking Robert.
That has nothing to do with why we are all here.
I agree, I wish this could have been agreed to by everyone yesterday. It would have saved us a lot of posts. Maybe this will be the end of it.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 08:31:23 AM
Quote from: ""The Noob""
A new poster here on fornits. I have lurked for a few weeks and have now decided to post. I only have a few questions, and I hope TheWho can answer them in a timely fashion.
Sorry I haven't delved into the whole history behind this "donnybrook" so please forgive me if I come across as ignorant. To the questions, just what program did you attend? Or did you send your children to a program, and if this is so what program did they attend?
I am a parent and had a Daughter who attended ASR.
Post by: Troll Control on January 10, 2007, 08:42:59 AM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
I said five to six. Not UPWARDS of six.
10,000 is the lower limit, 100,000 is the upper limit.
Regardless, this is another prime example of your manipulative attempts at taking control of the direction of any conversation so you don't have to face criticism and specific factual discussion about these programs.
You also seem to care more about erroneous banter than the fact that some number of kids greater than zero are currently living through hell as we speak.
Yes, Niles. This is correct. Does the word "troll" mean anything to you?
I seriously can't see why anybody even bothers to respond. This guy, and Karen I see now, too, is supposed to be an adult, but people keep feeding into his child-like behavior (the absolute demand that he be attended to by all at the expense of a completely derailed dialogue/thread) and acting as though anytyhing this fellow has to say has merit. It doesn't. All he wants is attention, and he gets plenty.
So, let's keep the responses to this man-child here in his very own thread where he can be the star and the center of attention . It's really all he wants anyway.
As for Karen, I thought we had some kind of consensus (the adults) that we'd stick to the topics and not flame all day. I've already seen at least two threads derailed due to childish behaviors of two alleged adult professionals.
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2007, 08:52:33 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""The Noob""A new poster here on fornits. I have lurked for a few weeks and have now decided to post. I only have a few questions, and I hope TheWho can answer them in a timely fashion.
Sorry I haven't delved into the whole history behind this "donnybrook" so please forgive me if I come across as ignorant. To the questions, just what program did you attend? Or did you send your children to a program, and if this is so what program did they attend?
I am a parent and had a Daughter who attended ASR.
What year did she attend?
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 08:57:35 AM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""I said five to six. Not UPWARDS of six.
10,000 is the lower limit, 100,000 is the upper limit.
Regardless, this is another prime example of your manipulative attempts at taking control of the direction of any conversation so you don't have to face criticism and specific factual discussion about these programs.
You also seem to care more about erroneous banter than the fact that some number of kids greater than zero are currently living through hell as we speak.
Yes, Niles. This is correct. Does the word "troll" mean anything to you?
I seriously can't see why anybody even bothers to respond. This guy, and Karen I see now, too, is supposed to be an adult, but people keep feeding into his child-like behavior (the absolute demand that he be attended to by all at the expense of a completely derailed dialogue/thread) and acting as though anytyhing this fellow has to say has merit. It doesn't. All he wants is attention, and he gets plenty.
So, let's keep the responses to this man-child here in his very own thread where he can be the star and the center of attention . It's really all he wants anyway.
As for Karen, I thought we had some kind of consensus (the adults) that we'd stick to the topics and not flame all day. I've already seen at least two threads derailed due to childish behaviors of two alleged adult professionals.
Thanks DJ, Hopefully everyone can adhere
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 08:58:51 AM
Quote from: ""The Noob""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""The Noob""A new poster here on fornits. I have lurked for a few weeks and have now decided to post. I only have a few questions, and I hope TheWho can answer them in a timely fashion.
Sorry I haven't delved into the whole history behind this "donnybrook" so please forgive me if I come across as ignorant. To the questions, just what program did you attend? Or did you send your children to a program, and if this is so what program did they attend?
I am a parent and had a Daughter who attended ASR.
What year did she attend?
2002, Did you attend also?
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2007, 09:00:05 AM
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 09:08:29 AM
Quote from: ""The Noob""
Did she do wilderness before she went to ASR?
yes, she went to SUWS in N. Carolina.
Post by: Charly on January 10, 2007, 09:55:32 AM
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2007, 09:58:45 AM
http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=15260
You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
Please follow the instructions below:
(http://http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/zachmann1962/156.gif)
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 10:25:04 AM
Quote from: ""Charly""
Who- What are your and your daughter's thoughts on the SUWS wilderness program? My son felt wilderness was very beneficial (once he got over his anger at being there, which took about 5 weeks....) and that it wasn't at all like Carlbrook, his TBS. He thought the therapy in wilderness was very individualized and that the staff was excellent. He did two stints at Second Nature. There has been some discussion on this forum about wilderness. Several posters feel wilderness can be beneficial and not harmful or abusive. Others lump it is with all the other programs which use LGAT techniquees. I would be interested in your experience.
She did very well, I wish I had before and after photos. When I saw her coming down the trail at the end of her stay, she had a big smile on her face and looked so happy and healthy. The whole group spent the night in the woods and we sampled a little of what they had to eat (the kids cooked for the parents!) She started the fire and cooked lentils and rice, with garlic and we talked about her experience most of the night and her next step. She liked the staff and found it very beneficial, although, she had a tough start. She wasn?t used to a ton of exercise and walking.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 10:28:26 AM
Quote
="The Noob
(http://http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/zachmann1962/156.gif)
Believe me a few years ago I was ready to, but things are much better. What is there to be ashamed of, everyone has moved forward and are doing fine
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 10:35:16 AM
Quote
I think you jumped in at the end of the conversation and missed the intent?..
No he didn't, your intent in being on here is try and convince people you're as smart and as great as you like to pretend you are in your day to day life. The problem is though that just like in your day to day life, your self inflated view and idiocy shines right through. Hence why people laugh at you on here just as much as they do when you log off.
Quote
.but anyway Niles, you should really consider editing your post before RobertB wakes up, I mean come on? ?5 to 6 figure range being tortured, neglected, held in isolation, and not given therapy if they do need it, and all of them missing out on normal filial bonding and love and normal growth and development because of this industry.? Robert is going to demand that you back this up with photos and names of the children.
Actually this figure seems to be accurate to me, besides I only demand those things from you not just because you pulled your statements directly out of your ass and have nothing to back them up, but it's the same criteria you've demanded of others in the past. Should I post up some comments from you proving as much? Let me know.
Quote
5 figure range is one thing but 6 figure, we are talking about up to a million children, do you know how long it will take to document that many kids?.
Again you show that figures are not your forte
Quote
I referenced a small handful of posters as a population sample,
No you made something up and then had no means of supporting your own statement. You're just too full of yourself and too stupid to understand that.
Quote
I refused to reveal my sources
That's because you don't have any idiot! :D
Quote
and he flipped out, the conversation quickly deteriorated and eventually tanked and he had me against the wall accusing me of having a relationship with a woodchuck. It was horrible, Niles.
Flipped out in hysterics I'll grant you, you're nothing but a joke to me. Your shameful acts with small woodland creatures aside for the moment, I'm only employing the same philosphy regarding backing up statements as you. You sick woodchuck raping freak.
Now if you could just back up or retract your earlier statements perhaps that would allow things to move right along.
Quote
Exactly!! So at least we agree the car needs work !! 6 months ago you wouldn?t agree the car needed fixing
Provide the statement from me which suggest this to be true.
Quote
My analogy would, yes, a majority of posters, here on Fornits use to suggest that doing nothing was the best course of action for kids who were in trouble.
Provide numbers and statements proving this to be true.
If you can't do it Cindy, just say so.
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2007, 10:41:03 AM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
If you can't do it Cindy, just say so.
I thought TheWho was a guy..? :
Is Karen (charly) also a guy..?
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 10:51:36 AM
Karen....well it depends on her/his mood.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 10:53:30 AM
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 10:55:57 AM
A liar could just as well say the same thing you are.
Liar or not, it doesn't matter, its equally as empty.
Learn to debate.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 10:57:05 AM
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2007, 10:57:37 AM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
TheWho is a guy that likes to be called Cindy.
Karen....well it depends on her/his mood.
What? Who, that makes no fucking sense... Please state your gender.
As far as Karen goes.... well, what can I say? :rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2007, 10:58:52 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Sorry you feel that way, Robert. But I wont reveal my sources.
Sorry... i meant to quote this..
Who, please state your gender.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 11:14:36 AM
Quote from: ""Jeopardy""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Sorry you feel that way, Robert. But I wont reveal my sources.Sorry... i meant to quote this..
Who, please state your gender.
Long story, I took the name on a year or so ago as a "log in" and am the father of a child who attended SUWS and ASR. During a frustrating debate RobertBruce started refering to me as "Cindy". I think it comes from the Grinch....Cindy Lou Who....It makes him feel better, I use to name call in high school and it brought on some satisfaction at the time, but everyone grows out of it eventually.
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2007, 11:16:32 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Long story, I took the name on a year or so ago as a "log in" and am the father of a child who attended SUWS and ASR. During a frustrating debate RobertBruce started refering to me as "Cindy". I think it comes from the Grinch....Cindy Lou Who....It makes him feel better, I use to name call in high school and it brought on some satisfaction at the time, but everyone grows out of it eventually.
Thank you.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 11:17:25 AM
In my defense I am still in highschool so I guess I'm okay huh Cindy?
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 11:21:55 AM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Again because you don't have any. It's fine really, everyone else understands that you just made it up so It's okay.
Oh, no!! Thats a big number, should I ask for references and sources to back that up? If you dont have them its okay, just say so...
Only kidding........
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 11:25:01 AM
You still have to back up what you say, if you want to be taken in an open discussion where we have a clue what we are doing.
@Robert
Going down to their level does what exactly?
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 11:26:40 AM
Quote
Oh, no!! Thats a big number, should I ask for references and sources to back that up? If you dont have them its okay, just say so...
Only kidding........
I'd be willing to take a poll if you would either back up your statements or acknowledge that you can't.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 11:28:51 AM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
@WHO
You still have to back up what you say, if you want to be taken in an open discussion where we have a clue what we are doing.
@Robert
Going down to their level does what exactly?
Cindy can't back them up, and he can't acknowledge being wrong.
Nihil, using his own tactics against him gets him boggeled up and frustrated, it also keeps him from spewing off more of his nonsense to prospective parents pretending to know something about a field when it's clear he hasnt got a clue.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 11:30:29 AM
Try to take the high road... lot sof people are watching us.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 11:32:00 AM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
@WHO
You still have to back up what you say, if you want to be taken in an open discussion where we have a clue what we are doing.
@Robert
Going down to their level does what exactly?
I can agree to that, but lets apply the same standard to everyone. Maybe elliminate the use of the generalized terms like "most people think....." or "Everyone believes......" and move on using more specific data.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 11:33:03 AM
Remember, the burden of proof is on the programs.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 11:41:15 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""@WHO
You still have to back up what you say, if you want to be taken in an open discussion where we have a clue what we are doing.
@Robert
Going down to their level does what exactly?
I can agree to that, but lets apply the same standard to everyone. Maybe elliminate the use of the generalized terms like "most people think....." or "Everyone believes......" and move on using more specific data.
Cindy I will absolutly agree to this and do my best to adhere to it, once I see you do the same. I often see you talk about other people needing to use "real data" or facts to support their claims, yet yourself seem to be above that?
Why is that?
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 11:45:27 AM
Exactly!! So at least we agree the car needs work !! 6 months ago you wouldn?t agree the car needed fixing
My analogy would, yes, a majority of posters, here on Fornits use to suggest that doing nothing was the best course of action for kids who were in trouble.
RobertBruce indicated:
It's fine really, everyone else understands that you just made it up so It's okay.
And you Yourself, Niles, said:
There are still children in the 5 to 6 figure range being tortured?..
So I think it seems to be generally accepted to communicate this way here on Fornits, if we want to apply standards we should apply them to everyone.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 11:50:46 AM
Quote
It's fine really, everyone else understands that you just made it up so It's okay.
I should have written this as "It's fine really some of us understand that you just made it up so it's okay."
That having been done I'd like to see you either back up your statements or retract them.
Post by: Troll Control on January 10, 2007, 11:50:48 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Jeopardy""Quote from: ""TheWho""Sorry you feel that way, Robert. But I wont reveal my sources.Sorry... i meant to quote this..
Who, please state your gender.
Long story, I took the name on a year or so ago as a "log in" and am the father of a child who attended SUWS and ASR. During a frustrating debate RobertBruce started refering to me as "Cindy". I think it comes from the Grinch....Cindy Lou Who....It makes him feel better, I use to name call in high school and it brought on some satisfaction at the time, but everyone grows out of it eventually.
Let's be fair, children. Who, you have name-called many, many times here. You were just insulting RB personally in this very thread.
A little honesty here, Who. You haven't "grown out of it." You're a middle aged guy who acts and talks like a highschooler. Anyone that performs a search on your username here can view the nasty, condescending commentaries you've posted, so don't sugarcoat.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 11:59:00 AM
Exactly!! So at least we agree the car needs work !! 6 months ago you might not have agreed the car needed fixing
My analogy would, yes, I seem to recall many posters, here on Fornits that use to suggest that doing nothing was the best course of action for kids who were in trouble.
Okay Niles, your turn.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 12:01:52 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Jeopardy""Quote from: ""TheWho""Sorry you feel that way, Robert. But I wont reveal my sources.Sorry... i meant to quote this..
Who, please state your gender.
Long story, I took the name on a year or so ago as a "log in" and am the father of a child who attended SUWS and ASR. During a frustrating debate RobertBruce started refering to me as "Cindy". I think it comes from the Grinch....Cindy Lou Who....It makes him feel better, I use to name call in high school and it brought on some satisfaction at the time, but everyone grows out of it eventually.
Let's be fair, children. Who, you have name-called many, many times here. You were just insulting RB personally in this very thread.
A little honesty here, Who. You haven't "grown out of it." You're a middle aged guy who acts and talks like a highschooler. Anyone that performs a search on your username here can view the nasty, condescending commentaries you've posted, so don't sugarcoat.
Looks like you have me figured out, good for you DJ. My posts are there for anyone to read....
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 12:07:41 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Here is mine:
Exactly!! So at least we agree the car needs work !! 6 months ago you might not have agreed the car needed fixing
My analogy would, yes, I seem to recall many posters, here on Fornits that use to suggest that doing nothing was the best course of action for kids who were in trouble.
Okay Niles, your turn.
Niles claim was probably fairly accurate, I'm impressed that you were able to even do that much though, suprised even. Here's the thing though, you're wrong on both counts. I never made a comment suggesting that I feel the best way to handle teen issues is to ignore them. Nor do the majority of posters on fornits feel that is the best way to handle the issues.
If you'd like to offer evidence to the contrary I'm more than willing to discuss it.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 12:19:05 PM
Quote from: ""Charly""
Who- What are your and your daughter's thoughts on the SUWS wilderness program? My son felt wilderness was very beneficial (once he got over his anger at being there, which took about 5 weeks....) and that it wasn't at all like Carlbrook, his TBS. He thought the therapy in wilderness was very individualized and that the staff was excellent. He did two stints at Second Nature. There has been some discussion on this forum about wilderness. Several posters feel wilderness can be beneficial and not harmful or abusive. Others lump it is with all the other programs which use LGAT techniquees. I would be interested in your experience.
Charly -- another thought....
I could see how some kids may have trouble with the program. If the child was out of shape or was injured and unable to walk very well this would not be a good choice for them. But for the majority of kids I feel it would be beneficial. There was one kid in my daughters group that said he would like to do it again, but he was a real out doors type and enjoyed the challenge of lighting fires with flint etc., I would not call this typical. It is great for kids who lack self confident because each kids accomplishes a great deal during their stay there.
I haven?t heard much about second nature but it sounds similar to SUWS.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 12:23:17 PM
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 01:53:55 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Charly""Who- What are your and your daughter's thoughts on the SUWS wilderness program? My son felt wilderness was very beneficial (once he got over his anger at being there, which took about 5 weeks....) and that it wasn't at all like Carlbrook, his TBS. He thought the therapy in wilderness was very individualized and that the staff was excellent. He did two stints at Second Nature. There has been some discussion on this forum about wilderness. Several posters feel wilderness can be beneficial and not harmful or abusive. Others lump it is with all the other programs which use LGAT techniquees. I would be interested in your experience.
Charly -- another thought....
I could see how some kids may have trouble with the program. If the child was out of shape or was injured and unable to walk very well this would not be a good choice for them. But for the majority of kids I feel it would be beneficial. There was one kid in my daughters group that said he would like to do it again, but he was a real out doors type and enjoyed the challenge of lighting fires with flint etc., I would not call this typical. It is great for kids who lack self confident because each kids accomplishes a great deal during their stay there.
I haven?t heard much about second nature but it sounds similar to SUWS.
Has anyone ever wondered if forced 'challenge' and regimented 'success' actually gives any real self esteem?
You don't get a sense of self worth by doing what someone tells you to do, or irrelevant bullshit out in the woods that has no place in your life - all that 'self esteem' out in the woods means nothing here in the real world where we all live.
At any rate, all this woodsy bullshit is not therapeutic and is not consensual, and uhhhh there is still no proof any of this shit works, but It is so surreal to sit here seeing two programmie parents talking about how their children 'adjusted' to all of this that was forced upon them without either taking the time to imagine what its like to have to go through it themselves.
If they need therapy, give them therapy. IF they LIKE to walk in the woods and do that bullshit, then... let them go do it. But considering the cookie cutter approach these places have, and the fact that the VAST majority of kids tricked or escorted there have no experience with going out in the woods, living that way, having to do those things, and living in filth and shitty hygiene for such a long time, I fail to see how it is 'therapeutic' but I can see how it could be used to break them down and assert control.
I mean hell, the same counselors that push their buttons give them directions to campsites, give them food and water, and give them the few luxuries or opportunities to clean up they ever get. Does that just go right over your head?
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2007, 02:00:50 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2007, 02:05:17 PM
Quote
You don't get a sense of self worth by doing what someone tells you to do
Have you ever had a real job? A lot of being employed involves doing what someone tells you to do. It can certainly give one a sense of self-worth.
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 10, 2007, 02:06:19 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
QuoteYou don't get a sense of self worth by doing what someone tells you to do
Have you ever had a real job? A lot of being employed involves doing what someone tells you to do. It can certainly give one a sense of self-worth.
Have you ever been in a program? :rofl:
Seriously program parents, these analogies you come up with are ridiculous sometimes.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 02:24:28 PM
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 02:31:04 PM
Because, uh, that is what you are saying, unless you are blaming someone for not having the perspective to enjoy it.
Hey, lets use some of that logic and I'll tell my current love interest that anal sex is all about perspective and it is up to her to make it work, while I bust out the astroglide and push her knees up.
I mean, if it works for your kid, it should work for her, right?
While we're at it, lets take someone with a rape fantasy... how about I use that logic about simulated rape?
Or hypnosis, humiliation, masochism/flagellation, or being tied up for hours at a time. I mean, its all perspective!
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 10, 2007, 02:33:24 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Its all perspective. If you take a outdoor person who loves the dirt and hiking and put him in the city it might be comparably tough. Its not the dirt, its taking a kid out of his comfortable environment and allowing him to accomplish something he/she probably never thought they could,i.e, start a fire, cook, hike a few miles and at the same time learn something new about themselves, build self esteem, have a healthy diet. Expose them to something new, It works Niles, its not for everyone, I agree, some get a lot out of it others do not.
Well if the kid is having problems they probably aren't all that comfortable in their environment at home either. Let's agree and say the kids do have a 'good' time meeting the staff, lighting fires, talking about their problems. Then what?
If you look on SNWP's webpage look what they list here for kids they accept:
* Teen Depression
* Learning Differences
* Processing Disorder (Visual, Auditory)
* Oppositional Defiant Disorder
* Mild Eating Disorder Treatment
* Attention Deficit Disorder
* Gender Specific Issues
* Self-Mutilation Treatment (Cutting)
* Reactive Attachment Disorder Treatment (Attachment Disorder)
* Social skill deficits: non-verbal learning disorders and Asperger?s traits (or PDD)
* Substance Abuse Programs
Are you going to seriously sit there and suggest that 30 days out in the wilderness is going to help alleviate these issues? Let's leave the abuse argument off the table for the moment, and talk about effectiveness.
It seems to me wilderness programs are willing to accept a kid from the entire spectrum of troublehood. That means a parent might send a kid for smoking ciggarettes and talking back, and another might send their older teen for sexual assault, personality disorders and violence. Now, how can a facility be intellectually honest and suggest that their one-for-all type of treatment is going to help all these kids with such a variety of issues and backgrounds?
Of course these kinds of places have the potential to be abusive, I've read countless articles of kids being tortured to death in the name of wilderness therapy.
But beyond that, I believe it's downright dishonest and ineffective to advertise to parents they way they do. It's obvious this is a booming industry, and self-righteous folks from around the nation are heading in for the gold rush. To satisfy not only their financial desires, but their heartstrings as well.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 02:35:26 PM
Please don't say "comfort zone" either, alright?
Comfort, security and lack of stress and abundance of pleasure and happiness are things that help therapy... the inverse tends to hurt it.
And hwy do you also assume they want to achieve all this irrelevant bunk? Whoopie do I can build a fire... ok now how does that fix someone with real problems?
EDIT: Personal thing here.
" * Social skill deficits: non-verbal learning disorders and Asperger?s traits (or PDD) "
I was MIS-diagnosed with Aspergers but did have some acutal social skill problems. I can tell you right now that wilderness bullshit would not have helped ONE fucking iota. What did help was getting freedom, being happy, being away from stress (public school) and actual accomplishment with things that actually matter (going out to meet people and socialize, college, etc) and most importantly of all LEARNING HOW TO DO WHAT I WANT AND LEARNING HOW TO DECIDE WHAT I WANT TO DO.
Programs, wilderness or institutional do neither. You don't learn social skills or treat ASPERGERS (which is basically watered down autism) by being told what to do out in the woods and doing confrontation/disclosure based 'therapy' in a group and other LGAT-esque bullshit. Same for trail skills and isolation, coercion, being filthy, and whatnot.
If I had stupid parents I would have been a great program-kid candidate. I was so naive and depressed I would have easily been broken and washed, but I Can say right now I've done fine doing normal things... not that BM bullshit.
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 10, 2007, 02:36:08 PM
Quote
Expose them to something new, It works Niles, its not for everyone, I agree, some get a lot out of it others do not.
I agree, it works for the kids with the minor issues, they are the type who enjoy the experience and take it for what it's worth, a camping trip. It's the kids who go there expecting help for serious life threatening issues that get the shaft.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 02:39:24 PM
Do NOT draw that comparison.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 02:40:01 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
So if it works for someone "Based on perspective" then you should do it to anyone who has parents wealthy and foolish enough to sign on?
Because, uh, that is what you are saying, unless you are blaming someone for not having the perspective to enjoy it.
Hey, lets use some of that logic and I'll tell my current love interest that anal sex is all about perspective and it is up to her to make it work, while I bust out the astroglide and push her knees up.
I mean, if it works for your kid, it should work for her, right?
While we're at it, lets take someone with a rape fantasy... how about I use that logic about simulated rape?
Or hypnosis, humiliation, masochism/flagellation, or being tied up for hours at a time. I mean, its all perspective!
Wow, Niles, You exposed way too much of yourself on that one, you should cut back on the pay-per-view.
I agree it could be a good experience for everyone, myself included. But not everything works for everyone. Something like outward bound would be better suited for some children. Once they are off, they cant just say oh I want to go home for a few days, it is a commitment and they have to hang tough and experience completion. I know it may be hard to imagine but many of these basic concepts, like completing a task, setting up your own tent, using a can opener etc. are new to some kids.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 02:44:53 PM
Good to know you got a little taken aback by that. At any rate, ITS ALL PERSPECTIVE! ;) Gonna lube up your corn hole yet, buck o? I'm sure you can find a great dominatrix in your area to give perspective adjustment for about $100/hr...
Oh, wait, its not okay to make someone who does not like something like it by forcing it upon them, unless you're a child in a BM warehouse or wilderness camp!
:rofl: MY MISTAKE.
Also, commitment by WHO? THEM? Coercion is coercion is coercion, regardless of some commitment or contract or inconvenience!
Your little attempt at reasoning is like tying someone up, and if they use the safe word when youre in the scene go "oh you made a commitment you "need" to hang tough and experience completion... ".
Wow, sure does make this easier to understand when you get all allegorical. Dunnit?
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 10, 2007, 02:46:13 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
We both know a camping trip and a fucking wilderness program have about as much in common as a Bed & Breakfast and Auschwitz have in common.
Do NOT draw that comparison.
I don't know how to respond... take a look at your own comparison and reread your statement and try not to laugh.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 02:51:44 PM
A wilderness camp is a camping trip, except its for a long time, you have no clue where you are going or when or for how long, you are filthy, you have to 'EARN' damn near everything, its not fun, you are forced to do lots of things, you have pressure points and joint locks used to make you move, the food sucks, counselors use gay indian names and push your buttons, you use encounter-based confrontational "therapy", and its not a trip to go have fun and do shit and use modern tools and conveniences, its intended to be as primitive and austere as possible.
So yeah, they both take place a far distance from human settlement, but thats about all they have in common.
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 10, 2007, 02:53:18 PM
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 02:54:29 PM
Just don't call a 'wilderness' BM camp with all the accompanying bullshit a 'camping trip', when it is most clearly not just a camping trip.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 02:56:04 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
PPV? Nah, that shit sucks. If you wanna get actual fetish erotica go to Cybernet Entertainment.
Good to know you got a little taken aback by that. At any rate, ITS ALL PERSPECTIVE! ;) Gonna lube up your corn hole yet, buck o? I'm sure you can find a great dominatrix in your area to give perspective adjustment for about $100/hr...
Oh, wait, its not okay to make someone who does not like something like it by forcing it upon them, unless you're a child in a BM warehouse or wilderness camp!
:rofl: MY MISTAKE.
Also, commitment by WHO? THEM? Coercion is coercion is coercion, regardless of some commitment or contract or inconvenience!
Your little attempt at reasoning is like tying someone up, and if they use the safe word when youre in the scene go "oh you made a commitment you "need" to hang tough and experience completion... ".
Wow, sure does make this easier to understand when you get all allegorical. Dunnit?
Ha,Ha Niles, I have to admit you have changed over the past 6 months. Good analogy work !!
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 10, 2007, 02:56:21 PM
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 02:57:09 PM
At any rate, calling a wilderness program a camping trip is like calling prison a hotel.
How's that, more concise?
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 10, 2007, 02:58:16 PM
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 02:58:34 PM
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 10, 2007, 03:00:04 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 03:00:37 PM
Which summer camp I'm not sure but it sure sounds great!
Cindy any chance on you backing up your claims yet?
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 03:03:52 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
You might want to hire an editor so your substance makes sense.
At any rate, calling a wilderness program a camping trip is like calling prison a hotel.
How's that, more concise?
Nah. Its much closer to being a camping trip..............
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 03:05:12 PM
Post by: Dr Fucktard on January 10, 2007, 03:06:55 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Hey, lets use some of that logic and I'll tell my current love interest that anal sex is all about perspective and it is up to her to make it work, while I bust out the astroglide and push her knees up.
I mean, if it works for your kid, it should work for her, right?
While we're at it, lets take someone with a rape fantasy... how about I use that logic about simulated rape?
Or hypnosis, humiliation, masochism/flagellation, or being tied up for hours at a time. I mean, its all perspective!
Finally someone's making some goddam sense on this forum!
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 03:10:54 PM
Quote
Nah. Its much closer to being a camping trip..............
And then he wonders why his daughter wants to murder him. Cindy how much of this wonderful program did you actually experience for yourself?
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2007, 03:13:44 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
pressure points and joint locks used to make you move,
What? I'm clueless here.
Please explain.?
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 03:15:40 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN0fRnnq ... ed&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN0fRnnq3bA&mode=related&search=) a 'wilderness' use of pain compliance.
BTW, those techniques can cause serious physical injury (joint locks especially... wtf?) besides the psychological trauma of being repeatedly dominated and painfully forced into doing things you don't want to do.
But its ALL PERSPECTIVE, right?
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 03:16:53 PM
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 03:20:19 PM
Then you load the language by saying how entrusted it all is, and compare the BM industry to a child-care spectrum?
The BM industry exists distinct from the mainstream, and then some, and its had 30+ years to prove itself and still has not!
Wow, you should be the guy the press talks to in that little area of the Whitehouse we see on the talking heads every night... jesus.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 03:31:10 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
You're trying to pigeonhole years of consisent allegations of very serious, horrible abuse as teasing or unfair singling out?
Then you load the language by saying how entrusted it all is, and compare the BM industry to a child-care spectrum?
The BM industry exists distinct from the mainstream, and then some, and its had 30+ years to prove itself and still has not!
Wow, you should be the guy the press talks to in that little area of the Whitehouse we see on the talking heads every night... jesus.
We entrust our kids to others everyday some more than others and the industry is doing well, growing and improving every year. The industry has been thriving for over 30 years, if there was a systemic problem it would have surfaced by now and the schools would be shut down. I am surprised you take such a negative view!
Post by: Troll Control on January 10, 2007, 03:31:28 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I think like anything else you can get some bad people that need to be weeded out, some kids may get teased or singled out without just cause and have a bad experience which can draw a cloud over the entire industry.. But this is a problem across the whole spectrum of facilities, highschools, camps, summer programs etc. that are entrusted to educate our kids.
This is one of the most genuinely stupid posters I have ever seen. Dude, are you whacked out on some hardcore shit, or are you naturally stupid?
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 03:35:33 PM
Entrusting to something with zero oversight? No.
Also, uh, that systemic problem has surfaced, and it's why we're all here.
:question: lol...
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 10, 2007, 03:36:00 PM
Quote
We entrust our kids to others everyday some more than others and the industry is doing well, growing and improving every year. The industry has been thriving for over 30 years, if there was a systemic problem it would have surfaced by now and the schools would be shut down. I am surprised you take such a negative view!
Well you have to remember rule#1 in this industry is, perception is reality. So they keep the ugly stuff hidden away from parents and then convince them anything their kid says is lies. There are two sides to this industry and parents only see one. The very fact this industry is thriving, should give anyone a negative view! What does that say about parents these days? The only thing that changed is income level and perception... hmm.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 03:36:42 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""I think like anything else you can get some bad people that need to be weeded out, some kids may get teased or singled out without just cause and have a bad experience which can draw a cloud over the entire industry.. But this is a problem across the whole spectrum of facilities, highschools, camps, summer programs etc. that are entrusted to educate our kids.
This is one of the most genuinely stupid posters I have ever seen. Dude, are you whacked out on some hardcore shit, or are you naturally stupid?
Well !!! Tilt your hand, show us what you got........ you dont sound like your pushing out more than 20 watts yourself.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 03:37:27 PM
Go figure. We lose our greatest rival and threat ever (The Soviet Union) and we lose our direction. Figures, though.
Now if only all these terrorists would take over a large country... :rofl:
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 03:39:26 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""TheWho""I think like anything else you can get some bad people that need to be weeded out, some kids may get teased or singled out without just cause and have a bad experience which can draw a cloud over the entire industry.. But this is a problem across the whole spectrum of facilities, highschools, camps, summer programs etc. that are entrusted to educate our kids.
This is one of the most genuinely stupid posters I have ever seen. Dude, are you whacked out on some hardcore shit, or are you naturally stupid?
Well !!! Tilt your hand, show us what you got........ you dont sound like your pushing out more than 20 watts yourself.
Still doesn't change the fact that in 30 years not one program has ever proven they do any good at all... or that any program has openly advertised what they actually do to kids, and admit its not therapy or treatment for anything.
Unless of course you think a wilderness camp is a good place for a kid with Aspergers, in which case I would like to introduce you to a psychologist who actually deals with them, the family of one, or a person who actually has it themself... http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/ (http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/) <- why not go bug them yourself?
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 10, 2007, 03:39:47 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn_LFdbYLqw&mode=related&search= 'restraint'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN0fRnnq ... ed&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN0fRnnq3bA&mode=related&search=) a 'wilderness' use of pain compliance.
BTW, those techniques can cause serious physical injury (joint locks especially... wtf?) besides the psychological trauma of being repeatedly dominated and painfully forced into doing things you don't want to do.
But its ALL PERSPECTIVE, right?
Perception is reality. These videos are fucking disturbing if you just watch them out of context. But pretend you are a parent, and you are being told this kid is a spoiled brat, hit her mother repeatedly and then they show you a video of the same girl a year later singing praises of the program!
The high price tag of the programs is not for nice accomodations, or nice food, or professional staff. No. It is for one thing, to keep up the perception. With parent communications, in the press, in society at large. It's a high price.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 03:42:50 PM
They are disturbing IN context as well, becasue I know what the fuck a wilderness camp does!
And that high price is what the kid paid... and what staff is going to pay with their souls sooner or later. Just go ask TSW.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 03:44:30 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Entrusting to institutions with tons of oversight like a school? Yeah.
Entrusting to something with zero oversight? No.
Also, uh, that systemic problem has surfaced, and it's why we're all here.
:question: lol...
I think you could find people unhappy with just about anything, any school, business, industry. People have been unhappy at Harvard, suicides at MIT, sexual miss-conduct at both involving people who should be caring for these students. But most of the energy in those situations is put into solving the problems....improving conditions, not closing the institutions. I think that is a key difference, adding value vs becoming part of the problem.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 03:48:57 PM
The crux of the problem, what makes a program a program, has not been addressed. You also can not correlate complaints about Harvard or MIT with someone being kept coersively against their will in a facility that only breaks them down as a GOAL of their 'treatment' and forces disclosure to elicit behavior modification! They are completely different things.
The problems with a programs is they are not merely therapeutic camping trips or therapeutic schools, respectively, they're camping trips that use the austere environment to break them down and keep them scared and isolated, and facilities that isolate them and use LGAT methods, level systems, and BITE-model conditions and activities by staff to break them down, make them disclose everything, and force them into compliance... while keeping them scared and isolated.
Oh, and before I forget...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy)
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 10, 2007, 03:52:08 PM
This shit is live theater to most people. Not everybody has empathy for this situation and consider it abuse.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 03:53:16 PM
I can't help but imagine that being done to me and thus imagine what it feels like to have to go through that, and thats why I'm here... still here, rather.
Good point.
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 10, 2007, 03:58:31 PM
Edit: I wont use "camping" again.. I dont want anyone to take an unintended meaning from my choice of words again. :roll: :-? :P
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 04:01:47 PM
One thing I wonder is why everyone feels that barriers are something to be torn down? A lot of people need more than they have and everyone needs barriers to some degree.
Disclosure isnt a fucking cure-all!
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 04:02:32 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
More spinning. You're a pro or just persistant.
The crux of the problem, what makes a program a program, has not been addressed. You also can not correlate complaints about Harvard or MIT with someone being kept coersively against their will in a facility that only breaks them down as a GOAL of their 'treatment' and forces disclosure to elicit behavior modification! They are completely different things.
The problems with a programs is they are not merely therapeutic camping trips or therapeutic schools, respectively, they're camping trips that use the austere environment to break them down and keep them scared and isolated, and facilities that isolate them and use LGAT methods, level systems, and BITE-model conditions and activities by staff to break them down, make them disclose everything, and force them into compliance... while keeping them scared and isolated.
Oh, and before I forget...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy)
See, that was one of my points. I am sure there are places like that and some of those things can happen, I am not saying they dont exist or dont happen, but they didnt happen where my daughter went. She improved academically, improved self esteem, motivated, happier. She keeps in touch with some of the counselors.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 04:03:39 PM
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 10, 2007, 04:04:53 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Probably. Though they take to LGATs to fuck with your head now, no need for drugs.
One thing I wonder is why everyone feels that barriers are something to be torn down? A lot of people need more than they have and everyone needs barriers to some degree.
Disclosure isnt a fucking cure-all!
That comment was tongue in cheek... believe me I got the same questions as you.
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 10, 2007, 04:17:58 PM
Quote
She keeps in touch with some of the counselors.
One of the counselors from a program I was at was really big with keeping contact with kids, she had her own myspace page and would call kids all the time aparently. It ended up coming out that she had been sleeping with some of the kids while at the facility and afterwards. I'm just saying, if you went to a 28 day rehab would you keep in contact with the counselors? Be careful parents! (if you truly do care, and I hope thats the case)
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 04:19:41 PM
I think that is fucking hilarious.
HEY, ITS ALL PERSPECTIVE, right?
I'm sure thats more therapeutic than most programs...
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 10, 2007, 04:25:48 PM
It's a seminar and they just don't know it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=px4Q8jEjBnI (http://youtube.com/watch?v=px4Q8jEjBnI)
Like I was saying.. cancer. :skull:
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 04:29:14 PM
and yeah, I'll stick to SPONGEBAB, thanks.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 04:50:15 PM
In the meantime are you okay with zero regulation for any industry?
Also you still have some claims you've yet to back up.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 04:51:29 PM
Actually, being spongebob period should attract TAC :rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2007, 05:36:19 PM
Is that some good live playing, or what?? Goddam, but The Who could fuckin' jam! :smokin:
There's a lot of good music on those two CDs that was left off of the original LP release way back when. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the vinyl medium as much as the next old dude but this is a damned good "record" here. If you haven't heard it yet, you neeed to, Who. :rofl:
Post by: Charly on January 10, 2007, 05:46:24 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2007, 05:50:19 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 05:53:02 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 05:56:53 PM
Quote from: ""TOKER""
How about that 'deluxe edition' release of Live at Leeds, Who?
Is that some good live playing, or what?? Goddam, but The Who could fuckin' jam! :smokin:
There's a lot of good music on those two CDs that was left off of the original LP release way back when. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the vinyl medium as much as the next old dude but this is a damned good "record" here. If you haven't heard it yet, you neeed to, Who. :rofl:
I havent heard the Delux edition, just purchased the full DVD collection of ?Led Zepplin? a couple of weeks ago, I haven?t heard Album I in years.
The Who could Jam, I caught them at the Spectrum in Philadelphia in 1973, I think. It was their Quadraphenia tour, They cranked ?The real me? for about 30 minutes, I think, My generation, The sea. When they finished up, no one screamed for an encore but just sat there silent for 10 minutes and lit what ever they had, lighter, candle etc. and finally the keyboard started on a dark stage and he played a 10 minute 20 minute intro to ?Wont be fooled again? then one by one ,Townsend, Entwistle came on stage, slow spotlight on Moon and finally Daltry came flying across the stage on his knees screaming. It was unbelievable. It wasn?t my top concert but definitely top 5.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 06:23:32 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2007, 06:26:59 PM
Post by: Deborah on January 10, 2007, 07:10:37 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I think like anything else you can get some bad people that need to be weeded out, some kids may get teased or singled out without just cause and have a bad experience which can draw a cloud over the entire industry.. But this is a problem across the whole spectrum of facilities, highschools, camps, summer programs etc. that are entrusted to educate our kids.
Nope, pretty sure all other institutions don't allow wrist locks and take downs unless the kid has a weapon in their hand. The only other place I've noticed this is JJ boot camps and psych wards.
That wasn't an isolated incident, but standard operating procedure, else they would've edited out. An effort to show the kid in her worst light and desensitize the public so they support such barbaric 'treatment'.
Some parents would get off on their kid being tortured like that, the more discerning parent is interested in their child getting the legitimate therapy they were sold. And this is Aspen, lauded as the cream o' the crop. Imagine what goes on in other programs, and at Aspen when the cameras aren't rolling.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 07:32:35 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""I think like anything else you can get some bad people that need to be weeded out, some kids may get teased or singled out without just cause and have a bad experience which can draw a cloud over the entire industry.. But this is a problem across the whole spectrum of facilities, highschools, camps, summer programs etc. that are entrusted to educate our kids.
Nope, pretty sure all other institutions don't allow wrist locks and take downs unless the kid has a weapon in their hand. The only other place I've noticed this is JJ boot camps and psych wards.
That wasn't an isolated incident, but standard operating procedure, else they would've edited out. An effort to show the kid in her worst light and desensitize the public so they support such barbaric 'treatment'.
Some parents would get off on their kid being tortured like that, the more discerning parent is interested in their child getting the legitimate therapy they were sold. And this is Aspen, lauded as the cream o' the crop. Imagine what goes on in other programs, and at Aspen when the cameras aren't rolling.
Hey Deb, I don?t think it is very common. They have had a few incidents in South Jersey where kids were taken down by police and a football coach who blindsided a kid for mouthing off, but it is few and far between. Wristlocks I have never seen as acceptable anywhere, at least any I have been involved with or my family, I wouldn?t allow it.
I guess there would be some parents who would get off on seeing their kid hurt because I believe in a normal distribution of people but this would be at the tail end of the curve and very rare in my opinion. All parents I have ever met only wish the best for their kids, I have never met or know anyone who met a parent who was out to harm their child or see them fail.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 07:40:08 PM
Post by: AtomicAnt on January 10, 2007, 08:07:29 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Its all perspective. If you take a outdoor person who loves the dirt and hiking and put him in the city it might be comparably tough. Its not the dirt, its taking a kid out of his comfortable environment and allowing him to accomplish something he/she probably never thought they could,i.e, start a fire, cook, hike a few miles and at the same time learn something new about themselves, build self esteem, have a healthy diet. Expose them to something new, It works Niles, its not for everyone, I agree, some get a lot out of it others do not.
Of course it is all just chuckles and giggles and self-esteem building. Just ask the girl who is screaming in pain as they torture her in the video posted earlier.
In your usual avoiding style, you failed to address the video and simply told how wonderful it all was for your daughter.
And Charly actually admits that it took took FIVE WEEKS for her son's anger to wear out. It took them five weeks to break him down.
Charly, Who, did they twist your kids wrists like Lucy in the video? Did your kids scream in pain? Don't say it doesn't happen. I just watched it.
If anyone did that to my kid, they would be answering to me pretty damn quick. I assure you they would regret laying a hand on my boy.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 08:16:06 PM
Post by: Deborah on January 10, 2007, 08:29:12 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""TheWho""I think like anything else you can get some bad people that need to be weeded out, some kids may get teased or singled out without just cause and have a bad experience which can draw a cloud over the entire industry.. But this is a problem across the whole spectrum of facilities, highschools, camps, summer programs etc. that are entrusted to educate our kids.
Nope, pretty sure all other institutions don't allow wrist locks and take downs unless the kid has a weapon in their hand. The only other place I've noticed this is JJ boot camps and psych wards.
That wasn't an isolated incident, but standard operating procedure, else they would've edited out. An effort to show the kid in her worst light and desensitize the public so they support such barbaric 'treatment'.
Some parents would get off on their kid being tortured like that, the more discerning parent is interested in their child getting the legitimate therapy they were sold. And this is Aspen, lauded as the cream o' the crop. Imagine what goes on in other programs, and at Aspen when the cameras aren't rolling.
Hey Deb, I don?t think it is very common. They have had a few incidents in South Jersey where kids were taken down by police and a football coach who blindsided a kid for mouthing off, but it is few and far between. Wristlocks I have never seen as acceptable anywhere, at least any I have been involved with or my family, I wouldn?t allow it.
You don't think wrist locks and take downs are common? And you base that comment on fact or deception? Perhaps you should consider some honest dialogue with your daughter, as Karen ventured to do with her son. If, you're ready for some 'hard truths'.
Got links to those stories? Cause I'd like to read what the coach was charged with. As for the cop, sorry not an institution, and sanctioned by law to do take downs in dangerous situations. (Not that they don't abuse and get off on it themselves- quiet a power rush for those who were repressed emotionally as children.)
As for the wristlock comment, I can't even guess what you're saying. Try again.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 08:32:52 PM
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Its all perspective. If you take a outdoor person who loves the dirt and hiking and put him in the city it might be comparably tough. Its not the dirt, its taking a kid out of his comfortable environment and allowing him to accomplish something he/she probably never thought they could,i.e, start a fire, cook, hike a few miles and at the same time learn something new about themselves, build self esteem, have a healthy diet. Expose them to something new, It works Niles, its not for everyone, I agree, some get a lot out of it others do not.
Of course it is all just chuckles and giggles and self-esteem building. Just ask the girl who is screaming in pain as they torture her in the video posted earlier.
In your usual avoiding style, you failed to address the video and simply told how wonderful it all was for your daughter.
And Charly actually admits that it took took FIVE WEEKS for her son's anger to wear out. It took them five weeks to break him down.
Charly, Who, did they twist your kids wrists like Lucy in the video? Did your kids scream in pain? Don't say it doesn't happen. I just watched it.
If anyone did that to my kid, they would be answering to me pretty damn quick. I assure you they would regret laying a hand on my boy.
I didn?t ignore it, I guess I am just desensitized because I have seen so much. I dont think anyone is saying it doesnt happen. What I disagree with is that this is regarded as somehow standard, unique to TBS?s or is written into their procedures somehow. Lots of really bad and shocking stuff happens to kids at the local school level, suicide, raped by a teacher, teachers being shot, public humiliation, track coaches forcing kids to run until they drop and some dieing of heart attacks. 10 times worse than twisting wrists. But when a prestigious school or controversial school or program has a problem it is put under a higher powered microscope. I think it is good, though. The more visibility the swifter the change will occur. If this happened at a school my kid was at I would pull her in a heart beat or ask for corrective action.
I am with you......
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 08:35:07 PM
Nice Ginger!!
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 08:42:33 PM
Quote
I didn?t ignore it, I guess I am just desensitized because I have seen so much. I dont think anyone is saying it doesnt happen. What I disagree with is that this is regarded as somehow standard, unique to TBS?s or is written into their procedures somehow. Lots of really bad and shocking stuff happens to kids at the local school level, suicide, raped by a teacher, teachers being shot, public humiliation, track coaches forcing kids to run until they drop and some dieing of heart attacks. 10 times worse than twisting wrists. But when a prestigious school or controversial school or program has a problem it is put under a higher powered microscope. I think it is good, though. The more visibility the swifter the change will occur. If this happened at a school my kid was at I would pull her in a heart beat or ask for corrective action.
I am with you......
No you're not. You were just going on a short time ago about how these programs are improving all the time. Improving how? I'd like to see you cite some sources for all the claims you just made concerning incidents in public schools. Also are you aware that public schools are regulated and have a great deal more oversight than most of the TBS? Also there are still some claims you've made that we're waiting on you to back up. Can you work up the courage to admit you were wrong?
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 08:53:43 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteI didn?t ignore it, I guess I am just desensitized because I have seen so much. I dont think anyone is saying it doesnt happen. What I disagree with is that this is regarded as somehow standard, unique to TBS?s or is written into their procedures somehow. Lots of really bad and shocking stuff happens to kids at the local school level, suicide, raped by a teacher, teachers being shot, public humiliation, track coaches forcing kids to run until they drop and some dieing of heart attacks. 10 times worse than twisting wrists. But when a prestigious school or controversial school or program has a problem it is put under a higher powered microscope. I think it is good, though. The more visibility the swifter the change will occur. If this happened at a school my kid was at I would pull her in a heart beat or ask for corrective action.
I am with you......
No you're not. You were just going on a short time ago about how these programs are improving all the time. Improving how? I'd like to see you cite some sources for all the claims you just made concerning incidents in public schools. Also are you aware that public schools are regulated and have a great deal more oversight than most of the TBS? Also there are still some claims you've made that we're waiting on you to back up. Can you work up the courage to admit you were wrong?
No I am not going to provide video clips from my local news or reasearch past news articles, Sorry Robert. I am not going to spend any of my time searching archives. If you go over to one of the ASR threads you will see that they have made substantial improvements to their program over the past 5 years (as one example).
Do your own work if you are interested, you also have the option not to believe me. Its not that tough to make a personal choice whether to believe me or not.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 09:08:01 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 09:22:26 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Of course it isn't, almost anything you say is garrunteed to be bullshit. I cannot fathom how you can demand proof beyond a shadow of a doubt for any claim made that opposes your ideology, yet you refuse to back up any of your claims. How does this double standard work in your mind? Or are you just that much of a jackass?
I am real comfortable with it, Bob. You are the one that seems to be stressed out.............
Post by: AtomicAnt on January 10, 2007, 09:48:37 PM
Quote
I didn?t ignore it, I guess I am just desensitized because I have seen so much. I dont think anyone is saying it doesnt happen. What I disagree with is that this is regarded as somehow standard, unique to TBS?s or is written into their procedures somehow. Lots of really bad and shocking stuff happens to kids at the local school level, suicide, raped by a teacher, teachers being shot, public humiliation, track coaches forcing kids to run until they drop and some dieing of heart attacks. 10 times worse than twisting wrists. But when a prestigious school or controversial school or program has a problem it is put under a higher powered microscope. I think it is good, though. The more visibility the swifter the change will occur. If this happened at a school my kid was at I would pull her in a heart beat or ask for corrective action.
I am with you......
Once again with the poor analogies. The shocking incidents you describe are not standard operating procedures. They are criminal acts or tragedies that schools try to prevent.
The wrist twisting is a standard procedure and regular practice at Aspen. The video is not unique. Mike Wallace and 60 minutes also did an expose on Aspen and they used the same wrist twisting technique on a mild mannered fourteen-year-old because he was refusing to hike.
When the boy asked why they had to hurt him, the program shrink twisted the logic backwards and asked the kid, "Why do you think we need to hurt you?" A counselor, facing right into the camera, made it clear that this was standard practice to 'accelerate' the boys 'participation.'
Mike interviewed two other children who claimed these techniques were used on them. These three children were in different groups and had no contact with other.
Another problem with your post is to dismiss the wrist twisting because it is not as bad as the other things you list. So, you dismiss this form of torture as not important because it is not as bad as being raped.
You are right about being desensitized. I am physically shaking having watched that video. Like Niles, I cannot help but have empathy for the girl by imagining how it must feel to be her. She must have been terrified, angry, felt helpless that she could not get away, felt outraged and helpless that no one would help her, and all the while endured excruciating pain.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 10:09:05 PM
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
QuoteI didn?t ignore it, I guess I am just desensitized because I have seen so much. I dont think anyone is saying it doesnt happen. What I disagree with is that this is regarded as somehow standard, unique to TBS?s or is written into their procedures somehow. Lots of really bad and shocking stuff happens to kids at the local school level, suicide, raped by a teacher, teachers being shot, public humiliation, track coaches forcing kids to run until they drop and some dieing of heart attacks. 10 times worse than twisting wrists. But when a prestigious school or controversial school or program has a problem it is put under a higher powered microscope. I think it is good, though. The more visibility the swifter the change will occur. If this happened at a school my kid was at I would pull her in a heart beat or ask for corrective action.
I am with you......
Once again with the poor analogies. The shocking incidents you describe are not standard operating procedures. They are criminal acts or tragedies that schools try to prevent.
The wrist twisting is a standard procedure and regular practice at Aspen. The video is not unique. Mike Wallace and 60 minutes also did an expose on Aspen and they used the same wrist twisting technique on a mild mannered fourteen-year-old because he was refusing to hike.
When the boy asked why they had to hurt him, the program shrink twisted the logic backwards and asked the kid, "Why do you think we need to hurt you?" A counselor, facing right into the camera, made it clear that this was standard practice to 'accelerate' the boys 'participation.'
Mike interviewed two other children who claimed these techniques were used on them. These three children were in different groups and had no contact with other.
Another problem with your post is to dismiss the wrist twisting because it is not as bad as the other things you list. So, you dismiss this form of torture as not important because it is not as bad as being raped.
You are right about being desensitized. I am physically shaking having watched that video. Like Niles, I cannot help but have empathy for the girl by imagining how it must feel to be her. She must have been terrified, angry, felt helpless that she could not get away, felt outraged and helpless that no one would help her, and all the while endured excruciating pain.
Quote
The shocking incidents you describe are not standard operating procedures. They are criminal acts or tragedies that schools try to prevent.
Yes they are and they are not analogies, they happened.
Quote
The wrist twisting is a standard procedure and regular practice at Aspen.Are you saying one specific school? Because this was not used, to my knowledge, at ASR.
Quote
Another problem with your post is to dismiss the wrist twisting because it is not as bad as the other things you list. So, you dismiss this form of torture as not important because it is not as bad as being raped.
I reread my post and I did not dismiss the incident, I said I have been exposed to incidents that were worse and therefore didn?t effect me as it would, to say, someone who had never been exposed to any violence before. Everyone is different, it didn?t make me ill watching it. If the video was of a girl being forcibly raped or dieing of a heart attack, I would be ill and probably have to turn it off, others may be unaffected, everyone has their tolerance. It is wrong and should be corrected and like I said I would pull my kid in a heart beat if she was exposed.
AA, Hope this clears it up.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 10:27:36 PM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
So this sort of torture and such is fine with you as long as it doesn't happen to your own kid?
Ha,Ha,Ha no,no its not okay, but I can see how it can be taken that way. Other parents might understand, its sort of a knee jerk reaction when have kids and you see other kids in a situation or bind you quickly respond to protect your own, that?s all. Its not okay to subject other peoples kids to it.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 10:33:33 PM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
Yet even with the mounting evidence against Aspen you seem rather reluctant to accept that they aren't quite what you have billed them to be.
I havent read any mounting evidence, not sure where the abuse occured or when. Is this an isolated incident within one camp? or is this happening and standard procedure through out the Aspen organization?
I cant change my opinion based on a couple utube clips and I wouldnt expect you to if they had one on a success story and how a life was changed for the better because of Aspen.
I think mounting evidence takes time and I just havent seen that yet.
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2007, 10:40:51 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""Yet even with the mounting evidence against Aspen you seem rather reluctant to accept that they aren't quite what you have billed them to be.
I havent read any mounting evidence.
If Karen in Dallas could be somehow considered "evidence" would you consider mounting her?
Post by: AtomicAnt on January 10, 2007, 10:43:29 PM
Quote
Are you saying one specific school? Because this was not used, to my knowledge, at ASR.
The "to my knowledge" part is what bothers me. Most, if not all, of the programs written about here involve controlling the child's contact with parents or anyone outside the program. That leaves open the possibility for unreported abuse. If the abuse does happen, there are no witnesses. As mentioned many times here, the program will proactively prepare the parents for 'allegations' of abuse by warning parents that kids are liars and manipulators.
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2007, 10:47:08 PM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
Are you making money off this place like I think Karen is?
Ohhhhh really...? Hmm.. not really surprising though..
Are you making money off of them, Karen you whore, you? :rofl:
Karen, you've been a bad, bad girl.
Admit it, Karen... Now! (http://http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/aktion/action-smiley-073.gif)
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 10:49:58 PM
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
QuoteAre you saying one specific school? Because this was not used, to my knowledge, at ASR.
The "to my knowledge" part is what bothers me. Most, if not all, of the programs written about here involve controlling the child's contact with parents or anyone outside the program. That leaves open the possibility for unreported abuse. If the abuse does happen, there are no witnesses. As mentioned many times here, the program will proactively prepare the parents for 'allegations' of abuse by warning parents that kids are liars and manipulators.
"to my knowledge" is all any of us can rely on. Yes but you forget, my daughter has been out several years and we have taked extensively on her experiences and those who went thru the process with her. The abuse just wasnt there. We all have to make decisions on what we know and have learned, and hopefully we all are doing that.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 10:53:24 PM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
No I think the real case in this matter is you have simply chosen to once again ignore it.
And thats okay, you are entitled to your opinion. I have reread my posts and I dont see where I have ignored any points that have been brought up for discussion, so I feel comfortable.
Got to bale and catch the news, its late here.
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2007, 10:58:25 PM
Quote from: ""Toker""
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""Are you making money off this place like I think Karen is?Ohhhhh really...? Hmm.. not really surprising though..
Are you making money off of them, Karen you whore, you? :rofl:
Karen, you've been a bad, bad girl.
Admit it, Karen... Now! (http://http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/aktion/action-smiley-073.gif)
:rofl: :rofl: ::bwahaha:: ::bwahaha2:: ::hehehmm:: :scared: ::drummer:: ::deal:: ::rocker:: ::bigsmilebounce:: :nworthy: :tup: :tup:
Post by: Oz girl on January 10, 2007, 10:59:27 PM
-Was it wise to send an anorexic drug addict on a physically demanding Wilderness trek?
-if ASR was so wonderful why did Ashley try to kill herself when she got the fantastic news they would keep her there another year?
-Why was every kid strip searched? Tyrone had not even tried dope or any other drug, neither had DJ
-Do you think Trevor, the popular English Lad was saved by ASR? His London visit did not really go so well did it?
-And what of Trevors now dead American mate Tanner. i wonder what his poor parents think of ASR? Hi dad may now be coherent. he was initially so grief stricken that he went over the deepend and robbed the local jeweller!
-Do you have any insight into the fact that marcus devoted 1 line to the enthusiastic young English teacher leaving after one year saying the only thing she liked about the place was the kids?
-Did it surprise you that DJ a kid who was kind of young and naive for his age felt the need to bullshit about how "bad" he was when he was around older more sophisticated boys? Do you think lumping him in with such kids was helpful. If so why?
Post by: RobertBruce on January 10, 2007, 11:00:33 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""Of course it isn't, almost anything you say is garrunteed to be bullshit. I cannot fathom how you can demand proof beyond a shadow of a doubt for any claim made that opposes your ideology, yet you refuse to back up any of your claims. How does this double standard work in your mind? Or are you just that much of a jackass?
I am real comfortable with it, Bob. You are the one that seems to be stressed out.............
Oh I'm not stressed, most of your comments inspire laughter on my part, well laughter and amazement. I can't quite understand how someone as dense as you not only convinced some woman to not only marry him, but to have sex with him as well. I understand now why you gravitated towards the TBS industry so whole heartedly, you're weak willed and an idiot, just the kind of person they want. Plus you picked up on the ridiculus circle logic without much trouble at all. Impressive considering just how dumb you are.
See if you can't break your programming and back up your own claims, just once.
Post by: Deborah on January 10, 2007, 11:02:58 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""So this sort of torture and such is fine with you as long as it doesn't happen to your own kid?
Ha,Ha,Ha no,no its not okay, but I can see how it can be taken that way. Other parents might understand, its sort of a knee jerk reaction when have kids and you see other kids in a situation or bind you quickly respond to protect your own, that?s all. Its not okay to subject other peoples kids to it.
Lucy was not a threat to herself or anyone else, except the staff's ego. She was subjected to POW techniques for non-compliance.
Not an isolated incident. Another fine example of the techniques that aren't spelled out in the Parent Manual. I was really shocked they let it air. Bet they correct that error in the future.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=238047#238047 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=238047#238047)
Post by: AtomicAnt on January 10, 2007, 11:21:24 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""Yet even with the mounting evidence against Aspen you seem rather reluctant to accept that they aren't quite what you have billed them to be.
I havent read any mounting evidence, not sure where the abuse occured or when. Is this an isolated incident within one camp? or is this happening and standard procedure through out the Aspen organization?
I cant change my opinion based on a couple utube clips and I wouldnt expect you to if they had one on a success story and how a life was changed for the better because of Aspen.
I think mounting evidence takes time and I just havent seen that yet.
In a rational society, this one video would be enough to shut them down (or at least land those two thugs and their supervisors in jail). How many kids tortured kids does it take to constitute 'mounting evidence?'
And in this post you are pretty much lying. The evidence does not stop at a couple of youtube clips. It also consists of a 60 Minutes Documentary, several news articles and the statements of dozens of former program attendees on this site and others. And don't deny you are not aware of this evidence. You have been around here too long for that to be plausible.
Post by: Deborah on January 10, 2007, 11:41:39 PM
I didn't read Marcus's book. What happened to Trevor? Tanner?
Connect the dots for me. Doesn't sound good. Can you give us a Cliff's Notes version of what happened to the kids, post program.
Post by: TheWho on January 10, 2007, 11:49:08 PM
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""Yet even with the mounting evidence against Aspen you seem rather reluctant to accept that they aren't quite what you have billed them to be.
I havent read any mounting evidence, not sure where the abuse occured or when. Is this an isolated incident within one camp? or is this happening and standard procedure through out the Aspen organization?
I cant change my opinion based on a couple utube clips and I wouldnt expect you to if they had one on a success story and how a life was changed for the better because of Aspen.
I think mounting evidence takes time and I just havent seen that yet.
In a rational society, this one video would be enough to shut them down (or at least land those two thugs and their supervisors in jail). How many kids tortured kids does it take to constitute 'mounting evidence?'
And in this post you are pretty much lying. The evidence does not stop at a couple of youtube clips. It also consists of a 60 Minutes Documentary, several news articles and the statements of dozens of former program attendees on this site and others. And don't deny you are not aware of this evidence. You have been around here too long for that to be plausible.
Why do you jump to accusing someone of lying.....See this is why I take many of your positions with a grain of salt. You take a little info and assume alot out of it. I saw 2 utube clips that I believe Niles posted a few pages back and asked if I saw them, yes I saw them today for the first time. This is the first I have seen with this "Wrist Twisting technique" and the first I have seen in a Aspen Program, the first time I have discussed this. I have been out of the country for a good part of last year so I havent seen much evidence lately. The tapes were not dated so I dont know if they have or could have taken action since. Did this occur over the past month or so? I think I asked,Is this isolated to one program? I just havent seen mounting evidence against Aspen, I am sorry. Tomorrow I will look for the news articles on the use of this technigue at Aspen and get up to speed. !!!
Post by: Deborah on January 10, 2007, 11:50:01 PM
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
In a rational society, this one video would be enough to shut them down (or at least land those two thugs and their supervisors in jail). How many kids tortured kids does it take to constitute 'mounting evidence?'
Is that form of 'treatment' even allowed in legit Psych Wards? I don't think so. Could we get a statement on that from the APA?
Post by: Oz girl on January 10, 2007, 11:51:39 PM
Trevor was a kid from London. he was one of the "stars" of the programme and according to the book extremely well liked by the other kids.
On a visit home he took so much heroin and coke in some kind of concotion that he nearly died. He wnet back to the programme was was totally contrite. They busted him down a level away from the vkids who had apparently become really close friends. As he left the room he yelled and i cant remember the exact quote -this programme has fucked me over-
Tanner was a psudenom (will try and dig up the book which memorialises him @ the back) He made it to a really good college for kids with musical talent. He also graduated the programme with barely a hiccup. he died of some kind of overdose (alcohol i think) and was not found for some time. His father according to the local papers had a tough time recovering from the grief and in spite of being an ex athlete and thus pretty well off, robbed a jewellery shop.
the other kids who he focused more intensely on were:
Tyrone, an almost angelic black kid from the tough side of New York who wagged school extensively and whose mum was determined he get an education. This woman fought tooth and nail to get him into ASR in part for their academics and because she though he suffered from depression. When the parents had to write an "impact" letter hers was quite loving and emphasised that he did not give her any trouble and that she just wanted him to do better than his father who was a small time crook. ASR told her that the letter was not harsh enough and made her write a different one.
Bianca a girl whose devoutly catholic mother died when she was 10. She had a bad forbidden boyfriend who she snuck out to see a lot. They also got cuaght getting hot and heavy in the back of a cinema. So her dad panicked and set her to Wilderness and ASR. in spite of her highly Catholic upbringing and beliefs ASR forced her to write a letter to her dad confessing her worse sexual "sins" and also to publically confess. (perhaps a catholic upbrining is necessary to understand why this is horrific but it really is not good) She got pregnant in her second yr of University.
DJ was a hyperactive kid with neurotic parents who had been on a cocktail of drugs since he was 5. He had one of those "you cant tell me what to do" fights with his mum and ran away for a grand total of 12 hours before ringing home! His worst vice was that he smoked tobacco a few times. it was clear that he hated every second of ASR
Apparently though he didnt go off the rails afterward.
mary Ellen was a girl from Texas with an eating disorder and who took way too many drugs. She seemed to buy into the programme totally by the end. But then so did Bianca and it did not go too well for her.
there were many peripheral characters and my thesis is that he would have looked at these kids more but it became too embarrasing to have so many that fucked up! by focusing on just 4 two of whome were pretty good kids to begin with ASR looked better than if we had of seen the post prog fuck ups of the entire group!
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 10, 2007, 11:54:07 PM
The british accent kind of caught me off guard, what was that about? Was that a clip from brat camp?
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 11, 2007, 09:12:40 AM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""In a rational society, this one video would be enough to shut them down (or at least land those two thugs and their supervisors in jail). How many kids tortured kids does it take to constitute 'mounting evidence?'
Is that form of 'treatment' even allowed in legit Psych Wards? I don't think so. Could we get a statement on that from the APA?
Does the APA have any teeth anyway?
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 09:40:25 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""Yet even with the mounting evidence against Aspen you seem rather reluctant to accept that they aren't quite what you have billed them to be.
I havent read any mounting evidence, not sure where the abuse occured or when. Is this an isolated incident within one camp? or is this happening and standard procedure through out the Aspen organization?
I cant change my opinion based on a couple utube clips and I wouldnt expect you to if they had one on a success story and how a life was changed for the better because of Aspen.
I think mounting evidence takes time and I just havent seen that yet.
This guy acts like these deplorable events happen in a vacuum. He's been given several first-hand accounts from ASR kids who were indeed abused, some before and some after he imprisoned his child there.
AA, you're dead on the money that The Who is lying about the evidence surrounding abuse at Aspen, because he has been shown a great amount of evidence in the form of personal accounts, news stories and accounts of staff members. He just chooses to ignore it.
"Holocaust? LOL! Are you kidding? I haven't seen any mounting evidence of that. I have friends who are Jewish and they're still alive!" :roll:
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 11, 2007, 09:41:40 AM
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 10:08:15 AM
The industry as a whole has been thriving and improving. When I left in June we were in a discussion on the improvements made at one of the TBS (ASR) and how successful their graduates were. There just isn?t any mounting evidence, none, that I have seen. I have read accounts of kids that faired poorly and some that got hurt. But this applies to all institutions that oversee children. Our own public school system is standing by allowing our kids to get raped by teachers, beat up by classmates and shot?? The rape is probably not all reported either, just the tip of the ice berg and this is happening within systems designed to keep our kids safe and have multiple levels of oversight.
The problems TBS's are experiencing pales in comparison. The kids are being sent there to keep them safe and get them back on track and it is working!!! Kids get turned around and get back on track. Not all schools employ the best people or procedures and I would not recommend them and in the same way I would not recommend sending your kids to some public school systems. I expect that parents review each school before choosing the best place for thier child.
I would think if there was a lot of abuse going on we would be seeing tons of it on utube via camera phones etc. Counselors have phones and most would not tolerate any of this and would document and turn someone in in a heart beat because they care about the kids. Between the internet and the advances in media/communication I would expect if there is a growing problem it would be all around and in our faces, this stuff gets out, it just does. Thousands of kids are experiencing these schools and we have 2 utube clips which don?t appear to be even shot in the US. I think this speaks volumes for how safe these kids are in the TBS environment at the present time!!
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 11, 2007, 10:09:46 AM
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?f=37 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?f=37) <- links to "Brat Camp" forum on Fornits, which is about... BRATCAMP. Bratcamp was a TV show where BRITISH KIDS got sent to Aspen programs (aka a "Brat camp") to get 'fixed'.
Love,
Everyone who isn't like a year behind.
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 10:17:52 AM
There is only one guy with his skill at not letting the facts interfere with his belief system and public statements, and that is Mohammed Said al-Sahaf (http://http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/).
Can you tell us if there are American troops in Baghdad yet?
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 10:37:17 AM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
Again with the ASR Who. i actually took your advice and read What it takes to pull me through. The ASR that Dave marcus described sounded like a shit hole! Pehaps you can answer these questions
-Was it wise to send an anorexic drug addict on a physically demanding Wilderness trek?
-if ASR was so wonderful why did Ashley try to kill herself when she got the fantastic news they would keep her there another year?
-Why was every kid strip searched? Tyrone had not even tried dope or any other drug, neither had DJ
-Do you think Trevor, the popular English Lad was saved by ASR? His London visit did not really go so well did it?
-And what of Trevors now dead American mate Tanner. i wonder what his poor parents think of ASR? Hi dad may now be coherent. he was initially so grief stricken that he went over the deepend and robbed the local jeweller!
-Do you have any insight into the fact that marcus devoted 1 line to the enthusiastic young English teacher leaving after one year saying the only thing she liked about the place was the kids?
-Did it surprise you that DJ a kid who was kind of young and naive for his age felt the need to bullshit about how "bad" he was when he was around older more sophisticated boys? Do you think lumping him in with such kids was helpful. If so why?
Excellent questions. I wonder if he'll answer these.
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 10:38:51 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Excellent questions. I wonder if he'll answer these.
You looking for a wager? Well all right then!
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 10:54:40 AM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Dear Who,
BRATCAMP. Bratcamp was a TV show where BRITISH KIDS got sent to Aspen programs (aka a "Brat camp") to get 'fixed'.
Love,
Everyone who isn't like a year behind.
Oh, Come on a TV show? You really expect anyone to form an opinion based on Television? I have never seen it, but I am sure that they didn?t spend much footage on the kids doing well getting along playing cards or growing by their experience (It would be too Boring!!) Lets see some sensationalism, lets mix it up, prod them with a sharp stick we need to keep the viewers interested and the ratings up. You think the show ? Real World? would still be on if they cut out all the fights, drinking binges, hot tub scenes and confrontations and just aired the days they stayed home hung over, playing cards and drinking orange juice? Reality Television is designed to intentionally spark controversy.
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Which Aspen Camp did thoses shots come from? What time frame?Everyone in both clips have British accents..... Hmmmm.:wstupid: ::bangin::
The industry as a whole has been thriving and improving. When I left in June we were in a discussion on the improvements made at one of the TBS (ASR) and how successful their graduates were. There just isn?t any mounting evidence, none, that I have seen. I have read accounts of kids that faired poorly and some that got hurt. But this applies to all institutions that oversee children. Our own public school system is standing by allowing our kids to get raped by teachers, beat up by classmates and shot?? The rape is probably not all reported either, just the tip of the ice berg and this is happening within systems designed to keep our kids safe and have multiple levels of oversight.
The problems TBS's are experiencing pales in comparison. The kids are being sent there to keep them safe and get them back on track and it is working!!! Kids get turned around and get back on track. Not all schools employ the best people or procedures and I would not recommend them and in the same way I would not recommend sending your kids to some public school systems. I expect that parents review each school before choosing the best place for thier child.
I would think if there was a lot of abuse going on we would be seeing tons of it on utube via camera phones etc. Counselors have phones and most would not tolerate any of this and would document and turn someone in in a heart beat because they care about the kids. Between the internet and the advances in media/communication I would expect if there is a growing problem it would be all around and in our faces, this stuff gets out, it just does. Thousands of kids are experiencing these schools and we have 2 utube clips which don?t appear to be even shot in the US. I think this speaks volumes for how safe these kids are in the TBS environment at the present time!!
So sorry... I didn't realize you were deaf and blind. My apologies.
I believe AA cited several news programs, there is a full-length movie out about WWASPS and a feature film about the industry (Name anyone? It escapes me) written by one of its victims that enjoyed dozens of film festival awards. Then you have ISACCORP, Fornits, AntiWWASP, ASTART, etc, etc, etc. All of these sources, according to The Who, are not credible.
Remember, this is the same guy who argued that it was just fine for HLA to operate as it was (no nurse, no licensed providers or teachers, etc), even though it was operating in a clearly illegal fashion. In fact, he argued ad nauseum in the same manner as he is doing here, that there was no evidence of wrongdoing and nothing wrong about HLA's behavior.
HLA has since been raided by state agencies, cited by them, sued by victims and will be closing its doors shortly, going down as one of the most fraudulent and abusive facilities thusfar exposed. But The Who says HLA is "improving," "helping kids get on track," and operating "legally and reasonably."
The Who is demonstrably, provably wrong about almost everything he says. However, no amount of evidence has ever deterred him from defending the most flagrant child abusers in the industry.
Bottom line: The Who has no regard for the welfare of children and promotes their abuse for cash.
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 11:09:30 AM
Quote
The Who wrote:
Oh, Come on a TV show? You really expect anyone to form an opinion based on Television? I have never seen it, but I am sure that they didn?t spend much footage on the kids doing well getting along playing cards or growing by their experience (It would be too Boring!!) Lets see some sensationalism, lets mix it up, prod them with a sharp stick we need to keep the viewers interested and the ratings up. You think the show ? Real World? would still be on if they cut out all the fights, drinking binges, hot tub scenes and confrontations and just aired the days they stayed home hung over, playing cards and drinking orange juice? Reality Television is designed to intentionally spark controversy.
Translation: "If I didn't personally witness it with my own two eyes IT NEVER HAPPENED.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 11, 2007, 11:13:53 AM
Quote
Which Aspen Camp did thoses shots come from? What time frame?Everyone in both clips have British accents..... Hmmmm.
The industry as a whole has been thriving and improving. When I left in June we were in a discussion on the improvements made at one of the TBS (ASR) and how successful their graduates were. There just isn?t any mounting evidence, none, that I have seen. I have read accounts of kids that faired poorly and some that got hurt. But this applies to all institutions that oversee children. Our own public school system is standing by allowing our kids to get raped by teachers, beat up by classmates and shot?? The rape is probably not all reported either, just the tip of the ice berg and this is happening within systems designed to keep our kids safe and have multiple levels of oversight.
The problems TBS's are experiencing pales in comparison. The kids are being sent there to keep them safe and get them back on track and it is working!!! Kids get turned around and get back on track. Not all schools employ the best people or procedures and I would not recommend them and in the same way I would not recommend sending your kids to some public school systems. I expect that parents review each school before choosing the best place for thier child.
I would think if there was a lot of abuse going on we would be seeing tons of it on utube via camera phones etc. Counselors have phones and most would not tolerate any of this and would document and turn someone in in a heart beat because they care about the kids. Between the internet and the advances in media/communication I would expect if there is a growing problem it would be all around and in our faces, this stuff gets out, it just does. Thousands of kids are experiencing these schools and we have 2 utube clips which don?t appear to be even shot in the US. I think this speaks volumes for how safe these kids are in the TBS environment at the present time!!
Once again you demand irrefutable proof from others regarding claims, yet yourself refuse to back up any of yours. Why is this?
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 11, 2007, 11:14:58 AM
Quote
I would think if there was a lot of abuse going on we would be seeing tons of it on utube via camera phones etc. Counselors have phones and most would not tolerate any of this and would document and turn someone in in a heart beat because they care about the kids. Between the internet and the advances in media/communication I would expect if there is a growing problem it would be all around and in our faces, this stuff gets out, it just does. Thousands of kids are experiencing these schools and we have 2 utube clips which don?t appear to be even shot in the US. I think this speaks volumes for how safe these kids are in the TBS environment at the present time!!
No, it really doesn't. This is the same response I've gotten from a lot of people who I've told about my own experiences in abusive programs. They say something to the effect of "that would never happen in the US, if it did somebody would have already stopped it!" People REALLY believe this tripe for some reason, maybe until the truth is forced upon them and they see it for themselves will they realize just how NAIVE they really sound. :roll:
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 11:23:06 AM
Quote
Was it wise to send an anorexic drug addict on a physically demanding Wilderness trek?
Depends on how demanding it was for her, fresh air good food, getting away from her bad influences. I think she ended up making out well.
Quote
if ASR was so wonderful why did Ashley try to kill herself when she got the fantastic news they would keep her there another year?
Only Ashley would know that
Quote
Why was every kid strip searched? Tyrone had not even tried dope or any other drug, neither had DJ
It was the process at the time, no knives, drugs etc. in wilderness, keeps everyone safe. That?s the whole point.
Quote
Do you think Trevor, the popular English Lad was saved by ASR? His London visit did not really go so well did it?No it did not, doesn?t sound he was ready for a home visit yet. But that is what they are for, to test the waters, see how the child is progressing. The last thing you want to do is put the kids back out into thier old environment without any transition. If they had done that he probably would be dead now. As it turned out he was still enrolled at ASR , moved down one level and was able to finish his work.
Quote
And what of Trevors now dead American mate Tanner. i wonder what his poor parents think of ASR? Hi dad may now be coherent. he was initially so grief stricken that he went over the deepend and robbed the local jeweller!That was sad and his father took it hard, affected his life. His professional friends rallied to support him. He never mentioned regretting sending him to ASR nor blamed the schools he attended. Some kids are just hard to reach.
There was a friend of mine in high school who took his life and it is a horrible thing to have to experience.
Quote
Do you have any insight into the fact that marcus devoted 1 line to the enthusiastic young English teacher leaving after one year saying the only thing she liked about the place was the kids?
No I don?t
Quote
Did it surprise you that DJ a kid who was kind of young and naive for his age felt the need to bullshit about how "bad" he was when he was around older more sophisticated boys? Do you think lumping him in with such kids was helpful. If so why?
This is very typical when all the kids are telling war stories and yours just doesn?t measure up you may embellish your story a little to fit in. My daughter did this, in fact by the time they got to Costa Rica they all looked back and laughed at the stories they told each other just to fit in.
Its been awhile since I read the book. It is a good snapshot of ASR and TBS?s in general although the peer group structure and many of the restrictions have changed and improved. Nutritional choices are much better, not a big sense of being isolated or locked away (unless you get snowed in). But the school use to be the site of national cross country skiing and a resort so there are a lot of trails. There are no fences and you can walk to town, although, you will get kicked out if you break the rules like any other boarding school, so the kids don?t feel hopeless that they cant leave.
Hope this helps
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 11:24:25 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Oh, Come on a TV show? You really expect anyone to form an opinion based on Television? I have never seen it, but I am sure that they didn?t spend much footage on the kids doing well getting along playing cards or growing by their experience (It would be too Boring!!) Lets see some sensationalism, lets mix it up, prod them with a sharp stick we need to keep the viewers interested and the ratings up. You think the show ? Real World? would still be on if they cut out all the fights, drinking binges, hot tub scenes and confrontations and just aired the days they stayed home hung over, playing cards and drinking orange juice? Reality Television is designed to intentionally spark controversy.
But that's the whole psychology of these places. Stoke the fires. Stress kids to the point of exhaustion. Break them down. That's what they do. That's how they accomplish what they advertise. The Zappa quote in my signature says it. Parents are freaking out about their teenagers, programs capitalize on that and promise to return their 'little girl' to them.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=12902&start=75 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=12902&start=75)
Quote
Our daughter has now ben at Aspen for 7 months and has made the "Greenhorn" level, which allows her to go on overnight visits inside Utah with parents. She had just made it when I recently visited, so she was limited to 12 hour visits for the first round.
I almost (well, actually did) cry. She was back to her giggling, silly, snowball throwing, 16-year old self, rather than the withdrawn, drug-hazed, psychotic person who we first enrolled there. Like many, she was a victim of (non-family) abuse and trauma, with depression and PTSD. Her therapist is absolutely wonderful and treats her with respect and friendship, as does the residential staff.
That's one of the saddest posts I've seen in a long time. This girl went through some kind of traumatic experience (abduction and god knows what else) and she's shipped off to a mindrape institution. The OP of the thread had a kid who, I'm sure by most program parent standards, was close to deathinsanityorjail. They pulled their kid because they realized it was all about punishment, control and money.
These places take whatever crisis a family is going through, perceived or real, and ramp it up. It's really no different than reality TV. The more chaos the programs can show that the kids were/are in, the more the parent is likely to 'trust the process' and 'turn over their will'. That's why you end up hearing about kids making shit up or grossly exaggerating their past behaviors once they've been indoctrinated. The more extreme the behavior, the better the program is praised for 'treating' it. Program parents want their tame child-creature.
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 12:07:50 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteOn 2006-05-31 04:57:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"QuoteTheWho wrote:
Are you kidding!!! You have friends on the inside {who know everything) and they conveniently hit the ?Reply all button? (by accident) on the issue that I happen to challenge you on, wow, DJ you do go to extremes to win an argument.
Have you read any of the other threads, Who? You are completely WRONG AGAIN. How do you think I have an entire email string from several management personnel detailing the fact HLA has had pedophiles/rapists/sociopaths, etc on campus.
Give it a rest. I posted those emails in their entirety when people like you were saying the same things you're saying now. Go back and read before you act like even more of a dummy.
To answer your question: YES, I do have people on the "inside" who are willing to provide information to force HLA to provide adequate services and a safe environment for the kids. You're so eager to say that I DON'T have this type of information that you make an ass of yourself by NOT READING the threads you attempt to comment upon where these emails (that you claim simply CAN'T BE HAD) are already posted and have been for months.
Sorry, DJ, I consider myself very open minded but I cant believe what you say on this one. I?m am sure there are plenty of people who believe you so you don?t need my backing to keep your ego afloat.
Just a few weeks later a massive lawsuit was filed and the campus was raided by CPS, based in large part on this particular (forensically verified legitimate and genuine) email exchange.
Just one concrete example of how blind and deaf TheWho actually is...
He thinks everyone, including news outlets, is lying about abuse at BM facilities.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 12:38:30 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Oh, Come on a TV show? You really expect anyone to form an opinion based on Television? I have never seen it, but I am sure that they didn?t spend much footage on the kids doing well getting along playing cards or growing by their experience (It would be too Boring!!) Lets see some sensationalism, lets mix it up, prod them with a sharp stick we need to keep the viewers interested and the ratings up. You think the show ? Real World? would still be on if they cut out all the fights, drinking binges, hot tub scenes and confrontations and just aired the days they stayed home hung over, playing cards and drinking orange juice? Reality Television is designed to intentionally spark controversy.
But that's the whole psychology of these places. Stoke the fires. Stress kids to the point of exhaustion. Break them down. That's what they do. That's how they accomplish what they advertise. The Zappa quote in my signature says it. Parents are freaking out about their teenagers, programs capitalize on that and promise to return their 'little girl' to them.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=12902&start=75 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=12902&start=75)QuoteOur daughter has now ben at Aspen for 7 months and has made the "Greenhorn" level, which allows her to go on overnight visits inside Utah with parents. She had just made it when I recently visited, so she was limited to 12 hour visits for the first round.
I almost (well, actually did) cry. She was back to her giggling, silly, snowball throwing, 16-year old self, rather than the withdrawn, drug-hazed, psychotic person who we first enrolled there. Like many, she was a victim of (non-family) abuse and trauma, with depression and PTSD. Her therapist is absolutely wonderful and treats her with respect and friendship, as does the residential staff.
That's one of the saddest posts I've seen in a long time. This girl went through some kind of traumatic experience (abduction and god knows what else) and she's shipped off to a mindrape institution. The OP of the thread had a kid who, I'm sure by most program parent standards, was close to deathinsanityorjail. They pulled their kid because they realized it was all about punishment, control and money.
These places take whatever crisis a family is going through, perceived or real, and ramp it up. It's really no different than reality TV. The more chaos the programs can show that the kids were/are in, the more the parent is likely to 'trust the process' and 'turn over their will'. That's why you end up hearing about kids making shit up or grossly exaggerating their past behaviors once they've been indoctrinated. The more extreme the behavior, the better the program is praised for 'treating' it. Program parents want their tame child-creature.
Well the TV thing, just cant see. No way am I going to base my decisions on a reality series. I cant believe I am hearing this. I get called for ignoring facts and then we see a post of a utube clip from england and start backing your positions with Reality series on TV.
I agree and always have that there are abusive programs out there, there are programs in every industry that dont stand up to minimal standards set by the majority. But they all cant be judged based on the worsed! Should we assume that someones time at straight is the same as someone going thru ASR? or Vice versa?
Sure there is work to be done for many schools as is the case for most institutions which work with kids, but lets look at each one independently.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 11, 2007, 12:48:10 PM
Quote
A very good way to accomplish your goal is to maintain credibility, stay with the facts and compare them to known requirements or acceptable limits would be my recommendation. One needs to be very specific and factual.
Hmmm...Cindy you don't seem to be very specific or factual in your claims....
Quote
We don?t know this, I believe you are speculating. Again to maintain credibility I want you to provide facts. This what is hurting you, you jumped to conclusions with the dispensing of meds issue and it burned you and now you are doing it again.
Again with the demand for facts (they had been provided several times over during the course of the discussion, Cindy was just too dumb to pick up on it).
Quote
Sorry this statement is false, he obviously doesn?t know what he is talking about. Claims to know about HLA and what is going on ?.. Interesting ?? no credibility left.
More nuggets of wisdom from Cindy.
Why the double standard?
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 12:53:46 PM
Quote
TheWho wrote:
Well the TV thing, just cant see. No way am I going to base my decisions on a reality series. I cant believe I am hearing this. I get called for ignoring facts and then we see a post of a utube clip from england and start backing your positions with Reality series on TV.
So you're saying that an Aspen facility would deliberately cause bodily harm to a patient - in violation of their policy - to allow a TV program to get ratings? That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Sorry, but this type of violence against children is their policy, not something they decided in an ad hoc fashion to do in front of the camera. That's ridiculous.
This is how these places operate. When psychological coercion doesn't work, they use physical coercion. Nothing new there;it's well documented. The program does indeed use force to deal with patients. A clever producer caught it on film and used it to promote a TV show. What in the world does that have to do with the practice being in place at the facility? Physical abuse of patients is wrong whether it's caught on film or not.
This is simply prima-facie evidence that it does, in fact, happen at Aspen facilities. TheWho blames the TV producer for the abuse inflicted on a child by staff that were captured on film doing it of their own volition.
This is one seriously addled brain we're dealing with here, folks. In any case, it's a useful look into the disturbing psychology of program parents. I bet he blames CNN for the roadside bombs in Iraq, too. :roll:
Post by: Deborah on January 11, 2007, 12:55:43 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Well the TV thing, just cant see. No way am I going to base my decisions on a reality series. I cant believe I am hearing this. I get called for ignoring facts and then we see a post of a utube clip from england and start backing your positions with Reality series on TV.
While there are a few similarities, Brat Camp was/is, for all intents and purposes, a documercial. Marketing wilderness camps to the general public. No one stands to gain from Reality TV series except the producer and sponsers. Not so with Brat Camp. And if they so blazenly present the intentional infliction of pain as an acceptable form of gaining compliance, what IS happening when the camera are rolling?
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 12:58:11 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Which Aspen Camp did thoses shots come from? What time frame?Everyone in both clips have British accents..... Hmmmm.:wstupid: ::bangin::
The industry as a whole has been thriving and improving. When I left in June we were in a discussion on the improvements made at one of the TBS (ASR) and how successful their graduates were. There just isn?t any mounting evidence, none, that I have seen. I have read accounts of kids that faired poorly and some that got hurt. But this applies to all institutions that oversee children. Our own public school system is standing by allowing our kids to get raped by teachers, beat up by classmates and shot?? The rape is probably not all reported either, just the tip of the ice berg and this is happening within systems designed to keep our kids safe and have multiple levels of oversight.
The problems TBS's are experiencing pales in comparison. The kids are being sent there to keep them safe and get them back on track and it is working!!! Kids get turned around and get back on track. Not all schools employ the best people or procedures and I would not recommend them and in the same way I would not recommend sending your kids to some public school systems. I expect that parents review each school before choosing the best place for thier child.
I would think if there was a lot of abuse going on we would be seeing tons of it on utube via camera phones etc. Counselors have phones and most would not tolerate any of this and would document and turn someone in in a heart beat because they care about the kids. Between the internet and the advances in media/communication I would expect if there is a growing problem it would be all around and in our faces, this stuff gets out, it just does. Thousands of kids are experiencing these schools and we have 2 utube clips which don?t appear to be even shot in the US. I think this speaks volumes for how safe these kids are in the TBS environment at the present time!!
So sorry... I didn't realize you were deaf and blind. My apologies.
I believe AA cited several news programs, there is a full-length movie out about WWASPS and a feature film about the industry (Name anyone? It escapes me) written by one of its victims that enjoyed dozens of film festival awards. Then you have ISACCORP, Fornits, AntiWWASP, ASTART, etc, etc, etc. All of these sources, according to The Who, are not credible.
Remember, this is the same guy who argued that it was just fine for HLA to operate as it was (no nurse, no licensed providers or teachers, etc), even though it was operating in a clearly illegal fashion. In fact, he argued ad nauseum in the same manner as he is doing here, that there was no evidence of wrongdoing and nothing wrong about HLA's behavior.
HLA has since been raided by state agencies, cited by them, sued by victims and will be closing its doors shortly, going down as one of the most fraudulent and abusive facilities thusfar exposed. But The Who says HLA is "improving," "helping kids get on track," and operating "legally and reasonably."
The Who is demonstrably, provably wrong about almost everything he says. However, no amount of evidence has ever deterred him from defending the most flagrant child abusers in the industry.
Bottom line: The Who has no regard for the welfare of children and promotes their abuse for cash.
Hmmmm.. so you think I profit from this? That would be nice, it implies that I am good at what I do. If they came out with a Reality series depicting kids having fun at TBS would you change your mind about them?
You are letting you disdain for some people and schools screw up you logic. The good still far outweighs the bad at these schools. If someone were to weigh the TBS's side by side to the public sector schools the safety scale would tip heavily towards the Private schools. Every school out there is going to experience a suicide attempt, drug overdose, sexual abuse by a superior, death etc.. It is just a matter of time, the trick is to determine which are safer, what policies they have in place and the best match for ones child.
Oversight is great, but this isnt the whole answer. Take a look at our public sector, are our kids safe in the public school system? No. Are they safer in a TBS setting, it is ovwewhelmingly Yes !! But unfortunately we hear from more of the unhappy experiences than the successful ones.
Just ask anyone in a customer service department of any store how many people call in to say how happy they are with their new purchase. You would hear 99% who call are unhappy. Does this mean 99% of the people who purchase products are unhappy with their purchase?
Do you see my point?
We cant take a full spectrum across the board position based on a few scattered data points.
Sorry DJ its just not there.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 01:04:42 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
QuoteTheWho wrote:
Well the TV thing, just cant see. No way am I going to base my decisions on a reality series. I cant believe I am hearing this. I get called for ignoring facts and then we see a post of a utube clip from england and start backing your positions with Reality series on TV.
So you're saying that an Aspen facility would deliberately cause bodily harm - in violation of their policy - to a patient to allow a TV program to get ratings? That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Sorry, but this type of violence against children is their policy, not something they decided in an ad hoc fashion to do in front of the camera. That's ridiculous.
This is how these places operate. When psychological coercion doesn't work, they use physical coercion. Nothing new there;it's well documented. The program does indeed use force to deal with patients. A clever producer caught it on film and used it to promote a TV show. What in the world does that have to do with the practice being in place at the facility? Physical abuse of patients is wrong whether it's caught on film or not.
This is simply prima-facie evidence that it does, in fact, happen at Aspen facilities. TheWho blames the TV producer for the abuse inflicted on a child by staff that were captured on film doing it of their own volition.
This is one seriously addled brain we're dealing with here, folks. In any case, it's a useful look into the disturbing psychology of program parents. I bet he blames CNN for the roadside bombs in Iraq, too. :roll:
Ha Ha, so now I am responsible because I blame the producers. This is rich.
Hey, Its TV!!. We both know if it was a show depicting the success of kids and a followup series on how well they did in college, it would be boring as hell and get canceled and you would be screaming, this isnt true, were is the abuse!! This is so fake !!
or would you change your opinion and start believing these schools add value?
I think I know your answer.
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 01:06:42 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""Quote from: ""TheWho""Which Aspen Camp did thoses shots come from? What time frame?Everyone in both clips have British accents..... Hmmmm.:wstupid: ::bangin::
The industry as a whole has been thriving and improving. When I left in June we were in a discussion on the improvements made at one of the TBS (ASR) and how successful their graduates were. There just isn?t any mounting evidence, none, that I have seen. I have read accounts of kids that faired poorly and some that got hurt. But this applies to all institutions that oversee children. Our own public school system is standing by allowing our kids to get raped by teachers, beat up by classmates and shot?? The rape is probably not all reported either, just the tip of the ice berg and this is happening within systems designed to keep our kids safe and have multiple levels of oversight.
The problems TBS's are experiencing pales in comparison. The kids are being sent there to keep them safe and get them back on track and it is working!!! Kids get turned around and get back on track. Not all schools employ the best people or procedures and I would not recommend them and in the same way I would not recommend sending your kids to some public school systems. I expect that parents review each school before choosing the best place for thier child.
I would think if there was a lot of abuse going on we would be seeing tons of it on utube via camera phones etc. Counselors have phones and most would not tolerate any of this and would document and turn someone in in a heart beat because they care about the kids. Between the internet and the advances in media/communication I would expect if there is a growing problem it would be all around and in our faces, this stuff gets out, it just does. Thousands of kids are experiencing these schools and we have 2 utube clips which don?t appear to be even shot in the US. I think this speaks volumes for how safe these kids are in the TBS environment at the present time!!
So sorry... I didn't realize you were deaf and blind. My apologies.
I believe AA cited several news programs, there is a full-length movie out about WWASPS and a feature film about the industry (Name anyone? It escapes me) written by one of its victims that enjoyed dozens of film festival awards. Then you have ISACCORP, Fornits, AntiWWASP, ASTART, etc, etc, etc. All of these sources, according to The Who, are not credible.
Remember, this is the same guy who argued that it was just fine for HLA to operate as it was (no nurse, no licensed providers or teachers, etc), even though it was operating in a clearly illegal fashion. In fact, he argued ad nauseum in the same manner as he is doing here, that there was no evidence of wrongdoing and nothing wrong about HLA's behavior.
HLA has since been raided by state agencies, cited by them, sued by victims and will be closing its doors shortly, going down as one of the most fraudulent and abusive facilities thusfar exposed. But The Who says HLA is "improving," "helping kids get on track," and operating "legally and reasonably."
The Who is demonstrably, provably wrong about almost everything he says. However, no amount of evidence has ever deterred him from defending the most flagrant child abusers in the industry.
Bottom line: The Who has no regard for the welfare of children and promotes their abuse for cash.
Hmmmm.. so you think I profit from this? I NEVER SAID ANYTHING REMOTELY RESEMBLING THIS STATEMENT That would be nice, it implies that I am good at what I do. If they came out with a Reality series depicting kids having fun at TBS would you change your mind about them?
You are letting you disdain for some people and schools screw up you logic. YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT LOGIC IS, SIR. The good still far outweighs the bad at these schools. CITE YOUR SOURCES, PLEASE If someone were to weigh the TBS's side by side to the public sector schools the safety scale would tip heavily towards the Private schools.CITE YOUR SOURCES, PLEASE Every school out there is going to experience a suicide attempt, drug overdose, sexual abuse by a superior, death etc.. It is just a matter of time, the trick is to determine which are safer, what policies they have in place and the best match for ones child.
Oversight is great, but this isnt the whole answer. Take a look at our public sector, are our kids safe in the public school system? No. Are they safer in a TBS setting, it is ovwewhelmingly Yes !!CITE YOUR SOURCES, PLEASE But unfortunately we hear from more of the unhappy experiences than the successful ones.
Just ask anyone in a customer service department of any store how many people call in to say how happy they are with their new purchase. You would hear 99% who call are unhappy. Does this mean 99% of the people who purchase products are unhappy with their purchase?
Do you see my point?NO, I REALLY DON'T. I DON'T COMPARE MENTAL HEALTH CARE FOR CHILDREN WITH PRODUCTS AS YOU DO. SEE "FALSE ANALOGY"
We cant take a full spectrum across the board position based on a few scattered data points.BUT YOU JUST DREW AN ACCROSS THE BOARD CONCLUSION BASED ON ZERO DATA AND I BASE MY POSITION ON OVER TEN YEARS' EXPERIENCE WORKING INSIDE THE INDUSTRY AS WELL AS COPIUS DATA FROM ENFORCEMENT AGANCIES. WHY IS IT OK FOR YOU TO DO THIS WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY ADMONISHING OTHERS FOR YOUR PRACTICE? SEE "HYPOCRITE."
Sorry DJ its just not there.JUST BECAUSE YOU KEEP SAYING IT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S GOING TO BECOME TRUE AT SOME POINT. YOU'RE JUST PLAIN WRONG.
Notations added in bold caps.
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 01:14:17 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""QuoteTheWho wrote:
Well the TV thing, just cant see. No way am I going to base my decisions on a reality series. I cant believe I am hearing this. I get called for ignoring facts and then we see a post of a utube clip from england and start backing your positions with Reality series on TV.
So you're saying that an Aspen facility would deliberately cause bodily harm - in violation of their policy - to a patient to allow a TV program to get ratings? That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Sorry, but this type of violence against children is their policy, not something they decided in an ad hoc fashion to do in front of the camera. That's ridiculous.
This is how these places operate. When psychological coercion doesn't work, they use physical coercion. Nothing new there;it's well documented. The program does indeed use force to deal with patients. A clever producer caught it on film and used it to promote a TV show. What in the world does that have to do with the practice being in place at the facility? Physical abuse of patients is wrong whether it's caught on film or not.
This is simply prima-facie evidence that it does, in fact, happen at Aspen facilities. TheWho blames the TV producer for the abuse inflicted on a child by staff that were captured on film doing it of their own volition.
This is one seriously addled brain we're dealing with here, folks. In any case, it's a useful look into the disturbing psychology of program parents. I bet he blames CNN for the roadside bombs in Iraq, too. :roll:
Ha Ha, so now I am responsible because I blame the producers. This is rich.
Hey, Its TV!!. We both know if it was a show depicting the success of kids and a followup series on how well they did in college, it would be boring as hell and get canceled and you would be screaming, this isnt true, were is the abuse!! This is so fake !!
or would you change your opinion and start believing these schools add value?
I think I know your answer.
All I want is your explanation why it's OK for Aspen facilities to physically abuse children. You never explained how hurting kids "adds value." Explain.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 01:15:40 PM
TheWho Says: Hmmmm.. so you think I profit from this?
DJ Says: I NEVER SAID ANYTHING REMOTELY RESEMBLING THIS STATEMENT
I dont have to dig into your past posts or wait too long for you to start back peddling, now do I.
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 01:18:37 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
DJ: says : The Who has no regard for the welfare of children and promotes their abuse for cash.
TheWho Says: Hmmmm.. so you think I profit from this?
DJ Says: I NEVER SAID ANYTHING REMOTELY RESEMBLING THIS STATEMENT
I dont have to dig into your past posts or wait too long for you to start back peddling, now do I.
You promote child abuse for cash. Unfortunately for you, others get the cash and you just carry the water for them. Again, read for comprehension.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 01:18:52 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
You are letting you disdain for some people and schools screw up you logic. The good still far outweighs the bad at these schools.
Sources for this please?
Quote
If someone were to weigh the TBS's side by side to the public sector schools the safety scale would tip heavily towards the Private schools. Every school out there is going to experience a suicide attempt, drug overdose, sexual abuse by a superior, death etc.. It is just a matter of time, the trick is to determine which are safer, what policies they have in place and the best match for ones child.
These schools market themselves as the safer alternative. Smaller classes, more individualized attention, therapists, counselors etc. etc. They market themselves as 'therapeutic' but then run from that label if anyone tries to bring them into compliance with existing regulations. They use coercive tactics, emotional blackmail and abuse and if that doesn't work, physical force. Then they justify this all by saying that the kids are out of control and deserve this. It's their 'wake-up call' or 'forcing them to confront their own demons' or whatever other euphemism you want to use. It all boils down to the same peer-culture/pressure philosophy. Break 'em down, build 'em up. And no, I don't see any real difference between Straight and the vast majority of these places that I've read about and researched. I've said it before, I'll say it again.....same shit, slightly different wrapper.
Quote
Take a look at our public sector, are our kids safe in the public school system? No. Are they safer in a TBS setting, it is ovwewhelmingly Yes !!
Please back this statement up with something other than your opinion.
Quote
But unfortunately we hear from more of the unhappy experiences than the successful ones.
:roll:
Quote
Just ask anyone in a customer service department of any store how many people call in to say how happy they are with their new purchase. You would hear 99% who call are unhappy. Does this mean 99% of the people who purchase products are unhappy with their purchase?
Not even a comparison.
Quote
Do you see my point?
We cant take a full spectrum across the board position based on a few scattered data points.
Sorry DJ its just not there.
I see the point you're trying to make. It just isn't cutting it though.
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 01:21:16 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 01:21:43 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 01:23:06 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 01:28:12 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Now that we've cleared up your literacy deficiencies, I'd like to see your sources for the above claims that both Anne and I asked of you.
No , I am not going to go off doing busy work for you or to be held to a different standard then everyone else. I welcome discussion and open dialog. Some of what I say is opinion and I will try to remember to mention that as I speak the rest is from my personal experiences or what I have read here on Fornits. If there is new data that I would like to produce and I feel it is worthwhile I will do so.
But no, I am not going to run around for everyone.
See ya, Have to run
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 01:30:10 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
No , I am not going to go off doing busy work for you or to be held to a different standard then everyone else. I welcome discussion and open dialog. Some of what I say is opinion and I will try to remember to mention that as I speak the rest is from my personal experiences or what I have read here on Fornits. If there is new data that I would like to produce and I feel it is worthwhile I will do so.
But no, I am not going to run around for everyone.
See ya, Have to run
Oh come on!!! You make bold, blanket statements and when we ask you to provide some modicum of proof for these outrageous claims you "just say no"???
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 11, 2007, 01:31:57 PM
:rofl: Gonna keep those sources secret there buddy?
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 11, 2007, 01:33:34 PM
I THINK HIS MOST RECENT POST IS A FUCKING DOOZIE.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 01:34:44 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Wow. He gets his ass beat verbally in the most graphic audacious manner humanly possible without getting Ben Stein, Jeremy Clarkson and the YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK bitch involved, and he "has to run"
:rofl: Gonna keep those sources secret there buddy?
All right a few more minutes!
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 01:36:53 PM
He's just protecting the fantasy world in which he lives.
That guy is about as useless as tits on a boar - for either side of the argument, save for the illustration of how double-standards are employed by program parents, but that's about it...
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 11, 2007, 01:38:42 PM
If I make my N-BOT 9000+ to work out your post before you start to come clean, then you have to go back through all the seminars starting with Discovery! Gilcrease will PERSONALLY facilitate it, with Tony Robbins doing tag-team so they stay fresh!
DJ - Who's nonsense is a great case study of arguementative fallacies and just general bullshit, don't you think? It only helps our case, and tits on a boar feed piglets! Thats not useless, think of the piglets!!!
Post by: Programmie-Trans 9000 on January 11, 2007, 01:40:22 PM
Quote
No, I am not going to go off backing up what I have to say or be held to the same standard as everyone else. I refuse discussion and open dialog. All of what I say is bullshit and I will try to remember that as I speak. The rest is from my ass; I'm barely literate and have no idea what the rest of Fornits even reads like. If there is new data that I would like to produce (also known as making it up) and I feel anyone will believe it I will do so.
But no, I am not going to start making sense.
See ya, Have to go blow Lon Woodbury
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 01:40:32 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
and tits on a boar feed piglets!
:question: :question: Really?
::bwahaha::
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 01:41:08 PM
Everytime anyone uses the words everyone, all, most people here at fornits, the majority would need to be held accountable and would need to provide names. This is silly.
What I present is my opinion and facts as I have heard them. I dont save every article I read or tape the news each night. Does that make me a bad person, dont know.
But When I do come across something tangible that I can pass along I will, just like most of the people here at fornits. share it with everyone.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 01:44:52 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I think any one of us could bog down the thread by asking for everyone else to back up there position or opinion with facts.
Everytime anyone uses the words everyone, all, most people here at fornits, the majority would need to be held accountable and would need to provide names. This is silly.
What I present is my opinion and facts as I have heard them. I dont save every article I read or tape the news each night. Does that make me a bad person, dont know.
But When I do come across something tangible that I can pass along I will, just like most of the people here at fornits. share it with everyone.
Yes, we all post our opinions but your statements were presented as fact.
Quote
The good still far outweighs the bad at these schools.
Quote
If someone were to weigh the TBS's side by side to the public sector schools the safety scale would tip heavily towards the Private schools
Quote
Take a look at our public sector, are our kids safe in the public school system? No. Are they safer in a TBS setting, it is ovwewhelmingly Yes !!
If you're going to make statements like this, expect to be asked to back them up.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 01:45:33 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Cough it up already!
If I make my N-BOT 9000+ to work out your post before you start to come clean, then you have to go back through all the seminars starting with Discovery! Gilcrease will PERSONALLY facilitate it, with Tony Robbins doing tag-team so they stay fresh!
DJ - Who's nonsense is a great case study of arguementative fallacies and just general bullshit, don't you think? It only helps our case, and tits on a boar feed piglets! Thats not useless, think of the piglets!!!
If it helps your case why do you get so anxious all the time? Relax I must be helping your cause..shhh... keep the good thing going.
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 01:46:33 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
DJ, don't you have better things to do than argue with this assclown? Hop over to the HLA board and tell us what the hell's going on with that shitpit.
Eh, it's a slow day.
HLA? It's done. Cooked. I don't have any great, new news, but last I heard they borrowed over a million dollars just to cover daily operations. I don't have to tell you what that says about the health of the company... :skull:
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 01:48:24 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""I think any one of us could bog down the thread by asking for everyone else to back up there position or opinion with facts.
Everytime anyone uses the words everyone, all, most people here at fornits, the majority would need to be held accountable and would need to provide names. This is silly.
What I present is my opinion and facts as I have heard them. I dont save every article I read or tape the news each night. Does that make me a bad person, dont know.
But When I do come across something tangible that I can pass along I will, just like most of the people here at fornits. share it with everyone.
Yes, we all post our opinions but your statements were presented as fact.QuoteThe good still far outweighs the bad at these schools.QuoteIf someone were to weigh the TBS's side by side to the public sector schools the safety scale would tip heavily towards the Private schoolsQuoteTake a look at our public sector, are our kids safe in the public school system? No. Are they safer in a TBS setting, it is ovwewhelmingly Yes !!
If you're going to make statements like this, expect to be asked to back them up.
Okay well as of now you know they are my opinion.
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 01:49:26 PM
Quote
Niles wrote:
DJ - Who's nonsense is a great case study of arguementative fallacies and just general bullshit, don't you think? It only helps our case, and tits on a boar feed piglets! Thats not useless, think of the piglets!!!
It's the tits on a sow that feed the piglets, son. I get your point though, loud and clear.
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 01:52:14 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""DJ, don't you have better things to do than argue with this assclown? Hop over to the HLA board and tell us what the hell's going on with that shitpit.
Eh, it's a slow day.
HLA? It's done. Cooked.
So's the sticky green WEED that I just toked... (http://http://www.shredguitars.com/images/smilies/more/bonghit.gif)
Post by: N-BOT 9000+ on January 11, 2007, 01:52:41 PM
PERCENT CHANCE OF SUCCESS IS UNKNOWN, AS THIS IS MORE LADEN WITH null THAN ACTUAL INFORMATION.
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I think it would be better if I could somehow ask everyone else for facts and get out of that burden myself, however I'm unable to get away with it with people such as DJ, Anne, Milk and Niles posting here.
I would like to trick everyone into thinking that backing up my assertions and opinions with facts or coming to terms with the total lack of facts to support the programs and thus my own opinion is equal to naming names and exposing people, but that is silly.
I present my 'facts' and opinions as I want them to be, and I try to suggest that merely not saving articles or taping the news excuses my baseless assertions. But when I do come across anything that might support what I have to say, I will be sure to do so, just like the Shapiro Survey, I will share it with everyone until it gets debunked again.
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 01:53:38 PM
Quote from: ""Programmie-Trans 9000""
IT'S JUST TOO EASY, FLESHLING.QuoteNo, I am not going to go off backing up what I have to say or be held to the same standard as everyone else. I refuse discussion and open dialog. All of what I say is bullshit and I will try to remember that as I speak. The rest is from my ass; I'm barely literate and have no idea what the rest of Fornits even reads like. If there is new data that I would like to produce (also known as making it up) and I feel anyone will believe it I will do so.
But no, I am not going to start making sense.
See ya, Have to go blow Lon Woodbury
Fabulous! Did you recently get a software upgrade? :rofl:
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 01:54:05 PM
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 01:55:57 PM
Quote from: ""N-BOT 9000+""
BEGIN CRYPTO-PROGRAMMIE TRANSLATION.
PERCENT CHANCE OF SUCCESS IS UNKNOWN, AS THIS IS MORE LADEN WITH null THAN ACTUAL INFORMATION.Quote from: ""TheWho""I think it would be better if I could somehow ask everyone else for facts and get out of that burden myself, however I'm unable to get away with it with people such as DJ, Anne, Milk and Niles posting here.
I would like to trick everyone into thinking that backing up my assertions and opinions with facts or coming to terms with the total lack of facts to support the programs and thus my own opinion is equal to naming names and exposing people, but that is silly.
I present my 'facts' and opinions as I want them to be, and I try to suggest that merely not saving articles or taping the news excuses my baseless assertions. But when I do come across anything that might support what I have to say, I will be sure to do so, just like the Shapiro Survey, I will share it with everyone until it gets debunked again.
Nicely done!!
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 01:58:13 PM
Quote from: ""TOKER""
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""So's the sticky green WEED that I just toked... (http://http://www.shredguitars.com/images/smilies/more/bonghit.gif)Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""DJ, don't you have better things to do than argue with this assclown? Hop over to the HLA board and tell us what the hell's going on with that shitpit.
Eh, it's a slow day.
HLA? It's done. Cooked.
I hope that the smoke was pleasant and pungent, unlike the smoke wafting off HLA which smells like a mix of broken teen spirit, death and decay.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 01:58:26 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 01:59:41 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I do have to run, but I have to say I was a little more than humored that you stayed straight faced when you asked me for facts when you have been relying on a TV show for the bases of your argument. I don?t think you know how silly that makes you look.
Bye, silly rabbit.
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 02:03:26 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I do have to run, but I have to say I was a little more than humored that you stayed straight faced when you asked me for facts when you have been relying on a TV show for the bases of your argument. I don?t think you know how silly that makes you look.
Oh, I get it now. That poor little girl getting joint-locked and floored actually never happened. It all makes sense now. :roll:
So, according to TheWho, a PBS documentary is exactly as real as a Bugs Bunny cartoon. Yeah, that makes sense...not.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 02:03:42 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I do have to run, but I have to say I was a little more than humored that you stayed straight faced when you asked me for facts when you have been relying on a TV show for the bases of your argument. I don?t think you know how silly that makes you look.
You pompass ass!! We're not relying on a TV show as the basis of our argument. We're pointing to it as yet another example of the techniques used in these places. We said that this is what you can expect from that facility....which is true. We've also linked to numerous articles detailing the kinds of things that go on in these places. I have drawn my own conclusions about Carlbrook, ASR, Hyde, HLA and quite a few others that employ the very same tactics used on me some twenty plus years ago, and posted those......as my opinion. You made completely blanket statements as fact on the industry as a whole and would provide nothing to back up those ridiculous claims.
Post by: N-BOT 9000+ on January 11, 2007, 02:06:22 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I gotta go because I can not think of any other ploys in which to derail the topic (Programs and their ineffectiveness, the lack of any proof to support their assertions, and my attempts to reverse the burden of proof in addition to thinking those same standards do not apply to me), but I'll try to argue back one last time by implying that the only basis for your arguements are Brat Camp, and say it makes you look silly.
This one was nice and easy, any thoughts?
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 02:07:01 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""I do have to run, but I have to say I was a little more than humored that you stayed straight faced when you asked me for facts when you have been relying on a TV show for the bases of your argument. I don?t think you know how silly that makes you look.
You pompass ass!! We're not relying on a TV show as the basis of our argument. We're pointing to it as yet another example of the techniques used in these places. We said that this is what you can expect from that facility....which is true. We've also linked to numerous articles detailing the kinds of things that go on in these places. I have drawn my own conclusions about Carlbrook, ASR, Hyde, HLA and quite a few others that employ the very same tactics used on me some twenty plus years ago, and posted those......as my opinion. You made completely blanket statements as fact on the industry as a whole and would provide nothing to back up those ridiculous claims.
Welcome to Whoville, Anne! Or, as I like to call it, "The Land of Suspended Reality..."
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 02:12:32 PM
He is a piece of work, huh? :roll:
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 11, 2007, 02:16:28 PM
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 02:32:37 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
I have drawn my own conclusions about Carlbrook, ASR, Hyde, HLA and quite a few others that employ the very same tactics used on me some twenty plus years ago, and posted those......as my opinion.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/117088.html (http://www.reason.com/news/show/117088.html)
Meanwhile, other organizations found they could profit from tough love with legal impunity. As negative publicity finally began to hurt Straight and skepticism about the drug war itself grew, other groups began to use similar tactics, all converging on a combination of rigid rules, total isolation of participants from both family and the outside world, constant emotional attacks, and physical punishments. These programs were sold as responses not just to drug use but to teenage ?defiance,? ?disobedience,? ?inattention,? and other real or imagined misbehavior.
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 02:44:18 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Whoville. :rofl:
He is a piece of work, huh? :roll:
He's fucking shot, love.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 03:00:42 PM
Quote
Outdoor education, also known as wilderness therapy or outdoor therapy, serves as a short-term, high-impact therapeutic alternative to help get troubled teens back on track and develop a sense of personal responsibility. The wilderness serves as the ultimate teacher that teens cannot manipulate. The therapeutic aspect combined with the adventure of the wilderness camping experience has been shown to be highly effective in transforming the attitudes and behaviors of children, teens, and young adults.
Quote
Therapeutic boarding schools, also known as emotional growth boarding schools, combine therapy with a rigorous academic curriculum to help students struggling with behavioral and emotional issues improve their life skills while gaining a valuable education. The residential environment removes the distractions that often sabotage struggling students in neighborhood schools and also creates a positive peer culture where students support and encourage each other both behaviorally and academically.
The 'assessment test'...
http://www.parentcheckin.com/assessment ... 98C0131%7D (http://www.parentcheckin.com/assessment/assessment.asp?progid=%7B00169FB0-EC54-4115-92F5-1EE6D98C0131%7D)
Since I have no HTML skillz, could someone shorten that link for me so I don't screw up the thread if it does?
Thx.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 03:01:11 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""I have drawn my own conclusions about Carlbrook, ASR, Hyde, HLA and quite a few others that employ the very same tactics used on me some twenty plus years ago, and posted those......as my opinion.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/117088.html (http://www.reason.com/news/show/117088.html)
Meanwhile, other organizations found they could profit from tough love with legal impunity. As negative publicity finally began to hurt Straight and skepticism about the drug war itself grew, other groups began to use similar tactics, all converging on a combination of rigid rules, total isolation of participants from both family and the outside world, constant emotional attacks, and physical punishments. These programs were sold as responses not just to drug use but to teenage ?defiance,? ?disobedience,? ?inattention,? and other real or imagined misbehavior.
I agree 100% that many places adopted policies that are harmful to kids and are still inbusiness. I dont argue this point, they should be changed or shut down. But to classify all TBS's as the same is untrue and misleading and shows a lack of understanding and or knowledge. Many children do very well and benefit from their experience and turn their lives around.
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 03:03:01 PM
There are some people here who oppose Programs and are extremists in their views about mental health and incarceration of criminals and such overall.
Most of the people here are moderates about mental health care, and moderates about crime and punishment, who just oppose one highly dubious treatment modality.
"The Who" strikes me as the kind of guy who regularly makes the mistake of thinking "moderate" means halfway between his position and the other guy's---when that's not what "moderate" is at all.
As anybody who's not viewing the world through a twisted prism understands.
Ever noticed that any concessions "The Who" makes about bad things in the Programs serve more to prove to himself that he's not rigid and extreme, rather than to actually talk about the problems with that treatment modality?
Every treatment has its problems and issues. It's just hard to protect your dedication to a really lousy treatment if you start genuinely discussing its problems versus its intended or actual benefits.
We've all got our issues and we've all got our damages---everybody on the face of this Earth has some.
This guy's particular issues and damages make it pointless to try to talk with him. He can't not be rigid and skewed---not without wanting to change some of his problems and the help of a really good therapist.
Which we're not.
The guy may function well enough to get by in life generally, but he's only gonna see the world through that skewed prism, and nobody here can change that.
I don't know what damaged him, I don't know how bad it is, I don't know if his life is otherwise peachy. I'm not trying to diagnose this total stranger with this, that, or the other. But it's clear from, what, a couple of years of talking to the guy? He's not looking at the same world as the rest of us are.
Julie
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 03:06:17 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""I have drawn my own conclusions about Carlbrook, ASR, Hyde, HLA and quite a few others that employ the very same tactics used on me some twenty plus years ago, and posted those......as my opinion.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/117088.html (http://www.reason.com/news/show/117088.html)
Meanwhile, other organizations found they could profit from tough love with legal impunity. As negative publicity finally began to hurt Straight and skepticism about the drug war itself grew, other groups began to use similar tactics, all converging on a combination of rigid rules, total isolation of participants from both family and the outside world, constant emotional attacks, and physical punishments. These programs were sold as responses not just to drug use but to teenage ?defiance,? ?disobedience,? ?inattention,? and other real or imagined misbehavior.
I agree 100% that many places adopted policies that are harmful to kids and are still inbusiness. I dont argue this point, they should be changed or shut down. But to classify all TBS's as the same is untrue and misleading and shows a lack of understanding and or knowledge.
This is precisely the same argument I had with you, what, over a year ago now? This basic premise, the fundamentals, the loins from which all TBS/RTC and the like have sprung is inherently dangerous[/color]. There is no prettying it up, no softening it. There is no kinder, gentler way to accomplish what you say these places accomplish. Period. You have to break someone's will before you can change them, against it.
Quote
Many children do very well and benefit from their experience and turn their lives around.
In your opinion.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 03:06:18 PM
I like this:
"As anybody who's not viewing the world through a twisted prism understands"
Thats a classic.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 11, 2007, 03:06:42 PM
Not "well they've been in business so long it must work" - actual proof.
Please, illuminate us with your knowledge!
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 03:10:29 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""I have drawn my own conclusions about Carlbrook, ASR, Hyde, HLA and quite a few others that employ the very same tactics used on me some twenty plus years ago, and posted those......as my opinion.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/117088.html (http://www.reason.com/news/show/117088.html)
Meanwhile, other organizations found they could profit from tough love with legal impunity. As negative publicity finally began to hurt Straight and skepticism about the drug war itself grew, other groups began to use similar tactics, all converging on a combination of rigid rules, total isolation of participants from both family and the outside world, constant emotional attacks, and physical punishments. These programs were sold as responses not just to drug use but to teenage ?defiance,? ?disobedience,? ?inattention,? and other real or imagined misbehavior.
I agree 100% that many places adopted policies that are harmful to kids and are still inbusiness. I dont argue this point, they should be changed or shut down. But to classify all TBS's as the same is untrue and misleading and shows a lack of understanding and or knowledge.
This is precisely the same argument I had with you, what, over a year ago now? This basic premise, the fundamentals, the loins from which all TBS/RTC and the like have sprung is inherently dangerous[/color]. There is no prettying it up, no softening it. There is no kinder, gentler way to accomplish what you say these places accomplish. Period. You have to break someone's will before you can change them, against it.QuoteMany children do very well and benefit from their experience and turn their lives around.
In your opinion.
again I agree, you cant change anyone against their will....
But what if you educate them, guide them and show them a better way?
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 11, 2007, 03:12:05 PM
Quote
But what if you educate them, guide them and show them a better way?
That is called "parenting". PROGRAMS do not do that. PROGRAMS are institutions that use coersion and isolation by various means to make people act differently.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 03:15:16 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
QuoteBut what if you educate them, guide them and show them a better way?
That is called "parenting". PROGRAMS do not do that. PROGRAMS are institutions that use coersion and isolation by various means to make people act differently.
Beat me to it Niles!
Who, if you've got enough dough to ship your kid off, then you've got enough to take some time off and actually PARENT your child.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 03:16:09 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
QuoteBut what if you educate them, guide them and show them a better way?
That is called "parenting". PROGRAMS do not do that. PROGRAMS are institutions that use coersion and isolation by various means to make people act differently.
Yes they do!! TBS's do exactly that !! I know many kids first hand...
it works
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 03:18:49 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""QuoteBut what if you educate them, guide them and show them a better way?
That is called "parenting". PROGRAMS do not do that. PROGRAMS are institutions that use coersion and isolation by various means to make people act differently.
Yes they do!! TBS's do exactly that !! I know many kids first hand...
it works
Again, same argument. HOW do they work? By what process do they "work". Yes, TBSs very often induce 'change' in kids. READ MY SIGNATURE.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 11, 2007, 03:19:07 PM
When fornits says a PROGRAM, we mean a coersion and isolation based program, be it at a institution or wilderness camp, Who.
Those places do not teach, they force.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 03:21:02 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
You say so, thats nice. That means nothing.
When fornits says a PROGRAM, we mean a coersion and isolation based program, be it at a institution or wilderness camp, Who.
Those places do not teach, they force.
And thats fine, I have a different definition its called TBS and they teach and show a different way, no force.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 11, 2007, 03:22:10 PM
You can say what you want and redefine the language all you want but that does not change anything.
If there is nothing going on in these places, per your own logic, why are we here, and why does fornits exist?
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 03:25:17 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""You say so, thats nice. That means nothing.
When fornits says a PROGRAM, we mean a coersion and isolation based program, be it at a institution or wilderness camp, Who.
Those places do not teach, they force.
And thats fine, I have a different definition its called TBS and they teach and show a different way, no force.
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""QuoteBut what if you educate them, guide them and show them a better way?
That is called "parenting". PROGRAMS do not do that. PROGRAMS are institutions that use coersion and isolation by various means to make people act differently.
Yes they do!! TBS's do exactly that !! I know many kids first hand...
it works
My father, and maybe even myself, would have sworn that to be the case with Straight for 5 years or more after I got out. The "change" in me was miraculous. I was a very different person than before I went in.
We just started speaking again a few months ago after over 6 years of estrangement due to the PTSD and other damage done by Straight. EVerything, and I mean EVERYTHING I have read about ASR (including your own supportive posts about it) smacks of the exact same tactics and pressures that Straight used. All of it.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 03:26:41 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
And thats fine, I have a different definition its called TBS and they teach and show a different way, no force.
How, specifics please, are these changes brought about?
Do they use LGAT-type seminars or raps?
Is there confrontational peer pressure?
Are kids frequently pressured to come up with "dirt" on themselves or others?
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 11, 2007, 03:27:32 PM
He tried to spin "isolation" as a good thing by comparing it to the witness protection program.
Post by: Deborah on January 11, 2007, 03:31:20 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
EVerything, and I mean EVERYTHING I have read about ASR (including your own supportive posts about it) smacks of the exact same tactics and pressures that Straight used. All of it.
Synanon... and ASR has the "added value" of CEDU methods.
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 03:32:14 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""QuoteBut what if you educate them, guide them and show them a better way?
That is called "parenting". PROGRAMS do not do that. PROGRAMS are institutions that use coersion and isolation by various means to make people act differently.
Beat me to it Niles!
Who, if you've got enough dough to ship your kid off, then you've got enough to take some time off and actually PARENT your child.
Anne, you're missing something. it takes not only time to parent your child, it takes effort. People like TheWho care too much about what they themselves want and need to be bothered with the needs of their children.
They treat their kids like pets, not people. When the puppy gets dirty and matted with long nails and stinky breath, they send it to the groomer. When the puppy keeps barking, chewing and not listening and they get tired of it, they send it to obedience school.
Same way they handle their kids. The same dough that gives them leisure time is the dough they pay the program to make sure their "me time" is not interrupted. I've met quite literally hundreds of parents who not only feel this way, but actually verbally express it at their kid's intake!
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 03:34:06 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Anne, you're missing something. it takes not only time to parent your child, it takes effort. People like TheWho care too much about what they want and need to be bothered with the needs of their children.
They treat their kids like pets, not people. When the puppy gets dirty and matted with long nails and stinky breath, they send it to the groomer. When the puppy keeps barking, chewing and not listening and they get tired of it, they send it to obedience school.
Same way they handle their kids.
Nah, I'm not missing it at all. I lived it for damn near 25 years. From what I can tell by his postings, he's very similar to my father.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 11, 2007, 03:34:43 PM
Failed parents.
Hrm, I wonder what THIS THREAD is about.. :o
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 03:36:08 PM
Post by: Troll Control on January 11, 2007, 03:37:48 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""And thats fine, I have a different definition its called TBS and they teach and show a different way, no force.
How, specifics please, are these changes brought about?
Do they use LGAT-type seminars or raps?
Is there confrontational peer pressure?
Are kids frequently pressured to come up with "dirt" on themselves or others?
Yes, yes, yes and yes, as expressed by former ASR staff and attendees. Yes to all of your questions.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 03:44:30 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
What you define or what you think something to be, that is, your assertions, are meaningless.
You can say what you want and redefine the language all you want but that does not change anything.
If there is nothing going on in these places, per your own logic, why are we here, and why does fornits exist?
That goes both ways!! You seem to have a different definition than I do. Doesnt make you right! I didnt define TBS.......
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 03:50:58 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I didnt define TBS.......
Alright then. What is [/b] your definition?
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 11, 2007, 03:51:16 PM
Yet, we are talking about the same places. You are merely ASSERTING these places are good, unabusive and effective, and thats bullshit.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 03:53:02 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Don't bother.
He tried to spin "isolation" as a good thing by comparing it to the witness protection program.
Now that is funny!! Did I really? If you have that link, I would love to reread it. I do remember the intense isolation debate about a year ago... but not that specific comparison.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 03:53:14 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
To us a "program" is a place that uses isolation and coersion. You say "Its a TBS and it just educates and shows a better way"...
Yet, we are talking about the same places. You are merely ASSERTING these places are good, unabusive and effective, and thats bullshit.
Yep. Who, do you approve of isolation and coercion to forcibly change your child?
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 11, 2007, 03:53:50 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 03:59:18 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""To us a "program" is a place that uses isolation and coersion. You say "Its a TBS and it just educates and shows a better way"...
Yet, we are talking about the same places. You are merely ASSERTING these places are good, unabusive and effective, and thats bullshit.
Yep. Who, do you approve of isolation and coercion to forcibly change your child?
Of course not! I dont think many parents would. I dont think I am alone on this.
I have missed alot of posts here, everyone has been busy...
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 04:08:56 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
I already told you not only did he do that he tried to say its a good thing in all cases because a witness protection program is "isolation", and good, thus isolation is good :rofl:
Thats funny. I remember at the time it was bugging you that ASR didnt have any fences and the kids could just walk away if they wanted and were not kept against their will. If they ran away more than once they were kicked out of the school so they could always get out if they wanted.
This frustrated the crap out of you and You kept insisting that they must have mental fences which kept the kids from running or some sort of bs but it was a stretch. I think that debate went on for days
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 11, 2007, 04:12:09 PM
Fences where?
That has nothing to do with what I was talking about, but this nice little ret-con of yours for the sake of an arguement is cute.
But it ain't working.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 04:18:24 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Fences where?
At ASR. There are schools that have fences around them to keep kids from running (actually my highschool had a fence around it). But ASR doesnt. The kids can leave anytime they want to there is no isolation or coercion. Its a TBS, not a boot camp.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 11, 2007, 04:19:22 PM
Why are you turning this into fences at ASR? It was never around that, it is if you approve of the methods programs use to 'treat' children in their care!
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 04:24:42 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
I meant IN THAT DISCUSSION, Who.
Why are you turning this into fences at ASR? It was never around that, it is if you approve of the methods programs use to 'treat' children in their care!
Look back at your post. You were recalling a funny story about isolation and I remembered one where we argued about fences. Why does that upset you? If you want to drop the fences we can move on......
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 11, 2007, 04:25:59 PM
It was never about fences. This thread, right now, is about you and if you approve of isolation and coersion in programs, not whether or not a fence around ASR means it isolates people within it or not.
I do LOVE how you turn this around and attack me about fences. Nobody cares but you.
YES, please do drop the fences and move on, Who, please.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 04:28:36 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""Fences where?
At ASR. There are schools that have fences around them to keep kids from running (actually my highschool had a fence around it). But ASR doesnt. The kids can leave anytime they want to there is no isolation or coercion. Its a TBS, not a boot camp.
So then every kid wants to and completely agrees to be there with no pressure from an 'intake' or 'exit plan'? What would happen if they said they'd had enough and were leaving?
Post by: RobertBruce on January 11, 2007, 04:28:36 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 04:34:19 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
:rofl: THIS IS FUCKING RICH.
It was never about fences. This thread, right now, is about you and if you approve of isolation and coersion in programs, not whether or not a fence around ASR means it isolates people within it or not.
I do LOVE how you turn this around and attack me about fences. Nobody cares but you.
YES, please do drop the fences and move on, Who, please.
Why do you feel attacked? I wasnt attacking or turning anything around... Relax. At the time it was implied that fences isolated the kids and I responded by saying there were no fences at ASR. As far as isolation and Coersion. I have never supported this.
Now cut back on the caffeine, you are not the only one looking for answers or choses the topic.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 11, 2007, 04:36:17 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 04:37:09 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""Fences where?
At ASR. There are schools that have fences around them to keep kids from running (actually my highschool had a fence around it). But ASR doesnt. The kids can leave anytime they want to there is no isolation or coercion. Its a TBS, not a boot camp.
So then every kid wants to and completely agrees to be there with no pressure from an 'intake' or 'exit plan'? What would happen if they said they'd had enough and were leaving?
Run away more than once or break the rules and you are out on your butt.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 04:38:00 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
As far as isolation and Coersion. I have never supported this.
You're saying with a completely straight face that there is no isolation and coersion at ASR? Seriously?
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 11, 2007, 04:38:30 PM
Yes, fences can isolate people by containment, but a lack of fences is NOT a lack of isolation.
I am not drinking caffeine, but I do love how you imply you're not attacking me then do so by implication that I am overly caffinated.
What I'm wondering is why you keep shifting, dodging, and pulling nonsense instead of actually proving what you say!
You are the one who went off on the ASR/Fence tangent and try to derail the thread, yet again. First its semantic and saying that a TBS is a place that educates and teaches another way and does not use coersion, yet, programs work by coersion and isolation...
So, wtf, Who?
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 04:39:30 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Run away more than once or break the rules and you are out on your butt.
And then what happens? What is their understanding of what will happen to them if they get kicked out?
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 04:48:50 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
I never said I felt attacked, but you did turn things around. You made this about me, and fences, when it was never about either.
Yes, fences can isolate people by containment, but a lack of fences is NOT a lack of isolation.
I am not drinking caffeine, but I do love how you imply you're not attacking me then do so by implication that I am overly caffinated.
What I'm wondering is why you keep shifting, dodging, and pulling nonsense instead of actually proving what you say!
You are the one who went off on the ASR/Fence tangent and try to derail the thread, yet again. First its semantic and saying that a TBS is a place that educates and teaches another way and does not use coersion, yet, programs work by coersion and isolation...
So, wtf, Who?
Again if you look back you will see you had a recollection of a debate we had over isolation and I mentioned I had one about fences. Why is mine side tracking and yours is not, because you said it first? Very sensitive, Niles.
To answer your question, simple. They don?t use coercion and isolation. That has been my point all along is not all programs are alike, you seem to be stuck there. As long as you are you wont be able to move forward. Places change and grow, try to keep up. They are not all like Straight in the 70?s.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 11, 2007, 04:54:26 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 04:55:36 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Run away more than once or break the rules and you are out on your butt.
And then what happens? What is their understanding of what will happen to them if they get kicked out?
Probably be in a lot of trouble. A kid in my highschool was kicked out for spray painting his locker and his parents went sideways on him. Lost his car, spent a year in public school, cut his hair. So I would expect the same or worse.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 04:56:43 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
To answer your question, simple. They don?t use coercion and isolation. That has been my point all along is not all programs are alike, you seem to be stuck there. As long as you are you wont be able to move forward. Places change and grow, I want you to keep up. They are not all like Straight in the 70?s.
Any other Straight or WWASP vets lurking out there? What's this sound like to you?
http://www.swiftriver.com/personal_growth.htm (http://www.swiftriver.com/personal_growth.htm)
Quote
The Academy at Swift River is a 16-19 month long program with an average length of stay of 16 months. During our therapeutic boarding school residential program students progress in their daily academic classes and study halls, participate in Focus Groups, and complete an extensive four-part series of academic, social, personal growth, and family seminars. Students are challenged on a daily basis to raise their standards of academic and personal growth, to receive positive peer/faculty reinforcement, and to identify and develop their true self as it relates to peers, family, and community. We also have a Service Learning component in which the students work together in giving back to our communities.
During the final phase of our program, our graduates return to their families and communities, enter schools and colleges, and are more aware, sensitive, forgiving and loving than many of the people they will encounter. Alumni Services supports our graduates and their families as they translate their ideals and values into actions and goals in the community in which they live, be it home, school, or workplace. Nothing is more crucial to a graduate?s success than the transition from the safe, structured environment of ASR to the challenging, often lonely and sometimes hostile world. During this transition it is reassuring to have regular contact with someone who knows the graduate?s history, accomplishments, and aspirations, and can encourage them during times of doubt and hesitation.
http://www.swiftriver.com/student_profile.htm (http://www.swiftriver.com/student_profile.htm)
Quote
Students at The Academy at Swift River therapeutic boarding school in Mass have a great deal in common. They tend to be very bright, creative, powerful and loving young men and women.
At the time of admission, however, these are not the descriptors that many would use to characterize them. Instead, they are typically seen as underachieving, impulsive, and oppositional and defiant. Many of our students begin their journey at Swift River possessing a low self-esteem, making poor decisions, lacking a direction in life, and not understanding the negative impact that they are having on their family and friends. Additionally, many of our students have experimented with drugs and/or alcohol, been sexually promiscuous, are acting out at home and in the classroom, and have shown decreasing respect for themselves and others. These students are also making poor choices of peers and have become unresponsive to authority figures.
Academically, our students are not reaching their full potential in the classroom, and are often discouraged by learning differences that have never been successfully addressed.
Many of our students have been adopted or gone through a family divorce. It is also not uncommon for our students to have experienced a death or other tragic event in their life.
Our student profile:
* Co-ed Ages 14-17, grades 9 ? 12
* Minimum full scale IQ 95
* College oriented
* Emotional and behavioral disturbances
* Anxiety disorders including post-traumatic stress disorder
* Defiant and/or rebellious
* Mild to moderate mood disorders
* Academic underachievement and/or school avoidance
* Attention disorders
* Low self-esteem
* Adoption related issues
* Unresolved grief reactions including parental divorce
* Substance abuse
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 04:58:20 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""Quote from: ""TheWho""Run away more than once or break the rules and you are out on your butt.
And then what happens? What is their understanding of what will happen to them if they get kicked out?
Probably be in a lot of trouble. A kid in my highschool was kicked out for spray painting his locker and his parents went sideways on him. Lost his car, spent a year in public school, cut his hair. So I would expect the same or worse.
Jesus Christ this is like pulling teeth. :roll:
What would have happened had your daughter decided to leave? How would you and the school have reacted if she had said it was bullshit and she was outta there?
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 04:59:14 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 05:00:34 PM
Damn I'm high... too high to bother trying to understand this thread, anyway. :lol:
Who, when's the last time you smoked something good? :question:
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 05:01:50 PM
Quote from: ""Toke-io""
Straight in the fuckin' 80's was pretty bad there too, Who.. :roll:
Damn I'm high... too high to bother trying to understand this thread, anyway. :lol:
Who, when's the last time you smoked something good? :question:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:smokin: ::bandit::
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 05:03:19 PM
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 05:04:56 PM
Getting ready to blaze away myself. Been a long day, my eyes are tired.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 05:07:59 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""Quote from: ""TheWho""Run away more than once or break the rules and you are out on your butt.
And then what happens? What is their understanding of what will happen to them if they get kicked out?
Probably be in a lot of trouble. A kid in my highschool was kicked out for spray painting his locker and his parents went sideways on him. Lost his car, spent a year in public school, cut his hair. So I would expect the same or worse.
Jesus Christ this is like pulling teeth. :roll:
What would have happened had your daughter decided to leave? How would you and the school have reacted if she had said it was bullshit and she was outta there?
Talk to her, her counselor and the school and determine the next best step. It would not be a happy time for any of us.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 11, 2007, 05:08:42 PM
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 05:09:33 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Talk to her, her counselor and the school and determine the next best step. It would not be a happy time for any of us.
Jesus Christ this is like pulling teeth. :roll:
What would the next best step have been? What would her options have been?
Post by: Deborah on January 11, 2007, 05:12:59 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Talk to her, her counselor and the school and determine the next best step. It would not be a happy time for any of us.
Jesus Christ this is like pulling teeth. :roll:
What would the next best step have been? What would her options have been?
Can we say... Wilderness?
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 05:15:28 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
What would the next best step have been? What would her options have been?
Considering the mounting evidence against her, I'd say her options aren't looking too good; I'd say she's in a rather tight spot & a bit of a pickle....in a word, owned. :rofl:
Post by: Dr. Miller Newton on January 11, 2007, 05:19:02 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Jesus Christ this is like pulling teeth. :roll:
Talk to her, her counselor and the school and determine the next best step. It would not be a happy time for any of us.
Now you know how I felt all those years, druggie...
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 05:21:49 PM
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 05:22:33 PM
Quote from: ""Dr. Miller Newton""
Now you know how I felt all those years, druggie...
:rofl:
How ya feeling now Virg? When I saw you a couple of weeks back you were looking a lil stressed. Bankruptcy getting to ya? Neighbors? People riding by your house? Calling you?
Post by: RobertBruce on January 11, 2007, 05:30:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp9OTkwryL4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp9OTkwryL4)
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 05:34:51 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Here you go idiot, tell us more how it doesnt exist and it never happens.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp9OTkwryL4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp9OTkwryL4)
He'll just say "that's WWASP, ASR is different"....blah blah blah.
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 05:36:27 PM
fuckers. all the camp commandants use this excuse, and live like a kind in their own little prison camp its sickening. they get the low paid min wage staff to staff the shithole isolation rooms to do the abusing under the curtain of bullshit that parents pay some much of their hard earned money to keep alive. goddamn it parents let this shit die already. let it die.
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 05:39:07 PM
common sense advice but definitely bears repeating!!!
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 05:40:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn_LFdbYLqw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn_LFdbYLqw)
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 05:41:33 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 05:44:36 PM
"I CAN MAKE IT HURT!"
I missed that the first time around. Absolutely chilling. Im surprised that the English people aren't more horrified that Americans are roughing up their kids like this, jezus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN0fRnnq3bA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN0fRnnq3bA)
Watched this one again. What I didn't notice the first time around, look how young the kids or "counselors" on each side of her look! LOL They look like fucking high school kids! They look like they are not having any fun. Everyone, prospective staff, parents kids.. fucking run from this industry as fast as you can!
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 05:50:21 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN0fRnnq3bA
Watched this one again. What I didn't notice the first time around, look how young the kids or "counselors" on each side of her look! LOL They look like fucking high school kids! They look like they are not having any fun. Everyone, prospective staff, parents kids.. fucking run from this industry as fast as you can!
Creepy how that one kid's down under the log to get out of the rain and singing to herself while she waits for them to "bring lucy around."
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 05:56:40 PM
Quote from: ""toker""
Quote from: ""Guest""http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN0fRnnq3bACreepy how that one kid's down under the log to get out of the rain and singing to herself while she waits for them to "bring lucy around."
Watched this one again. What I didn't notice the first time around, look how young the kids or "counselors" on each side of her look! LOL They look like fucking high school kids! They look like they are not having any fun. Everyone, prospective staff, parents kids.. fucking run from this industry as fast as you can!
that chick screaming reminds me of my sister and this all brings back memories of my yonger years.. i cant stand people who scream like that now it drives me up the fucking wall. I was just like that kid sitting by the log just hoping it would end. hardly therapeutic environment, geesh. look at 26 seconds in, the dog on the right.. he gives a classic dog look like "WTF is wrong with you crazy humans?!" :rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 06:01:19 PM
Because I assure you, this is nothing but a light preview of what is to come for you kid if you send them to a shithole program and they resist the intrusive brainwashing. So what it is parents, do you want a submissive kid willing to spout off rhetoric on command, or an independent human being with a healthy soul???
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 06:04:27 PM
Quote
So what it is parents, do you want a submissive kid willing to spout off rhetoric on command, or an independent human being with a healthy soul???
The former, please.
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 06:23:17 PM
Quote from: ""Average Program Parent""
QuoteSo what it is parents, do you want a submissive kid willing to spout off rhetoric on command, or an independent human being with a healthy soul???
The former, please.
One Clockwork Orange coming up....
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 06:32:21 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 06:37:52 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Is there a discount version available? We are kind of short on funds...
Fuck no, buddy... you gotta pay top dollar for our professioal treatment. ... :rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 06:42:50 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""TOKER""How about that 'deluxe edition' release of Live at Leeds, Who?
Is that some good live playing, or what?? Goddam, but The Who could fuckin' jam! :smokin:
There's a lot of good music on those two CDs that was left off of the original LP release way back when. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the vinyl medium as much as the next old dude but this is a damned good "record" here. If you haven't heard it yet, you neeed to, Who. :rofl:
I havent heard the Delux edition, just purchased the full DVD collection of ?Led Zepplin? a couple of weeks ago, I haven?t heard Album I in years.
The Who could Jam, I caught them at the Spectrum in Philadelphia in 1973, I think. It was their Quadraphenia tour, They cranked ?The real me? for about 30 minutes, I think, My generation, The sea. When they finished up, no one screamed for an encore but just sat there silent for 10 minutes and lit what ever they had, lighter, candle etc. and finally the keyboard started on a dark stage and he played a 10 minute 20 minute intro to ?Wont be fooled again? then one by one ,Townsend, Entwistle came on stage, slow spotlight on Moon and finally Daltry came flying across the stage on his knees screaming. It was unbelievable. It wasn?t my top concert but definitely top 5.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 07:30:12 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I just wish there was video of what goes on when staff know they are not on camera. Think about it, they know they were being filmed and let this all continue. Think long and hard about that one parents!!
Because I assure you, this is nothing but a light preview of what is to come for you kid if you send them to a shithole program and they resist the intrusive brainwashing. So what it is parents, do you want a submissive kid willing to spout off rhetoric on command, or an independent human being with a healthy soul???
After the director yells "Cut": They all go into the make-up tent and then the food tent while some of them brush up on their holds and take downs.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 07:41:31 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Talk to her, her counselor and the school and determine the next best step. It would not be a happy time for any of us.
Jesus Christ this is like pulling teeth. :roll:
What would the next best step have been? What would her options have been?
To tell you the truth I really dont know. When I got the call that she had run away my mind was going a mile a minute, wondering if she was safe!! But it turned out she was just heading up the road and a counselor was trying to talk her back. (which he eventually did after about a mile out) We spoke for about an hour on the phone and she agreed to stay under the condition that she would be kicked out if she ran again. I didnt threaten her with any type of punishment as I remember. She told me later that I was really mad and asked her to try to get focused. She and I had a pact that if at anytime she didnt feel safe anywhere all she had to do is call me and say "You need to come and get me". This was established when she was home and I told her if she called, there would be no questions asked (for that one night). So I knew everyday that she was in a safe place. Not sure what we would have done if she did get kicked out, probably try another place, different stategy.
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 07:43:14 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""I just wish there was video of what goes on when staff know they are not on camera. Think about it, they know they were being filmed and let this all continue. Think long and hard about that one parents!!
Because I assure you, this is nothing but a light preview of what is to come for you kid if you send them to a shithole program and they resist the intrusive brainwashing. So what it is parents, do you want a submissive kid willing to spout off rhetoric on command, or an independent human being with a healthy soul???
After the director yells "Cut": They all go into the make-up tent and then the food tent while some of them brush up on their holds and take downs.
Yes this is all so funny. ::noway:: ::puke::
Post by: RobertBruce on January 11, 2007, 07:46:41 PM
Yes or no?
Post by: AtomicAnt on January 11, 2007, 07:47:28 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Which Aspen Camp did thoses shots come from? What time frame?Everyone in both clips have British accents..... Hmmmm.
The industry as a whole has been thriving and improving. When I left in June we were in a discussion on the improvements made at one of the TBS (ASR) and how successful their graduates were. There just isn?t any mounting evidence, none, that I have seen. I have read accounts of kids that faired poorly and some that got hurt. But this applies to all institutions that oversee children. Our own public school system is standing by allowing our kids to get raped by teachers, beat up by classmates and shot?? The rape is probably not all reported either, just the tip of the ice berg and this is happening within systems designed to keep our kids safe and have multiple levels of oversight.
The problems TBS's are experiencing pales in comparison. The kids are being sent there to keep them safe and get them back on track and it is working!!! Kids get turned around and get back on track. Not all schools employ the best people or procedures and I would not recommend them and in the same way I would not recommend sending your kids to some public school systems. I expect that parents review each school before choosing the best place for thier child.
I would think if there was a lot of abuse going on we would be seeing tons of it on utube via camera phones etc. Counselors have phones and most would not tolerate any of this and would document and turn someone in in a heart beat because they care about the kids. Between the internet and the advances in media/communication I would expect if there is a growing problem it would be all around and in our faces, this stuff gets out, it just does. Thousands of kids are experiencing these schools and we have 2 utube clips which don?t appear to be even shot in the US. I think this speaks volumes for how safe these kids are in the TBS environment at the present time!!
What is your opinion on global warming? I know some people who seem to think there is not enough evidence. They refuse to acknowledge somthing the entire global community of scientists has accepted as fact.
Seriously, you sound naive. Go and read up on any human rights organizations and see how difficult it is for them to gather the evidence and proof of human rights violations. They spend months, sometimes years, and risk their lives just to locate the scenes of massacres so they can uncover the bodies to prove that these already known events actually happened. I'm not talking about isolated instances, but systemic practices like the genocide in Serbia, and the rapes in Dafur. Human rights are not abused in front of cameras at conveniently filmable locations. They take place in concealed or remote places, like wildnerness areas or locked down buildings. The victims are rarely allowed to record the moment.
Staff members think this treatment is okay. They are one's applying it. They are not going to report it, because they don't think it is wrong. They don't care about the kids either. It's just a job. They don't know these kids. Don't confuse a minimum wage job with a noble cause. Did you miss the Milgram experiment?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment)
And what is all this utter nonsense you are spouting about the public school system? I fail to see any mounting evidence where public schools are 'standing by and allowing' kids to be abused and raped.
Your statements regarding public schools are completely baseless. You really need to turn off Fox News so that you can see reality. Stop listening to Bill O'Reilly and daytime talk show hosts. These people lie and distort to generate fear based ratings.[/i]
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 07:49:05 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on January 11, 2007, 07:58:58 PM
Cindy can you back up any of your claims made on here in the past week?
Yes or no?
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 08:00:01 PM
Quote
To tell you the truth I really dont know. When I got the call that she had run away my mind was going a mile a minute, wondering if she was safe!! But it turned out she was just heading up the road and a counselor was trying to talk her back. (which he eventually did after about a mile out) We spoke for about an hour on the phone and she agreed to stay under the condition that she would be kicked out if she ran again. I didnt threaten her with any type of punishment as I remember. She told me later that I was really mad and asked her to try to get focused. She and I had a pact that if at anytime she didnt feel safe anywhere all she had to do is call me and say "I want you to come and get me". This was established when she was home and I told her if she called, there would be no questions asked (for that one night). So I knew everyday that she was in a safe place. Not sure what we would have done if she did get kicked out, probably try another place, different stategy.
It wouldn't of been hard for that male counselor to push your daughter into the bushes and attack her and scare her into keeping quiet. How would you feel about this program if that happened to your daughter? It's happened before. Does it bother you at all that you willingly put your daughter in that kind of situation? Or does it make you warm and fuzzy down below, come sit in papas lap kind of happy?
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 08:03:24 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""I just wish there was video of what goes on when staff know they are not on camera. Think about it, they know they were being filmed and let this all continue. Think long and hard about that one parents!!
Because I assure you, this is nothing but a light preview of what is to come for you kid if you send them to a shithole program and they resist the intrusive brainwashing. So what it is parents, do you want a submissive kid willing to spout off rhetoric on command, or an independent human being with a healthy soul???
After the director yells "Cut": They all go into the make-up tent and then the food tent while some of them brush up on their holds and take downs.
Fuck off you sanctimonious prick! You have no idea what it's like to be one of those kids on the floor, or to have to see and hear that for hours on end. It ain't no fucking joke asshole. ::fuckoff::
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 08:18:51 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Guest""I just wish there was video of what goes on when staff know they are not on camera. Think about it, they know they were being filmed and let this all continue. Think long and hard about that one parents!!
Because I assure you, this is nothing but a light preview of what is to come for you kid if you send them to a shithole program and they resist the intrusive brainwashing. So what it is parents, do you want a submissive kid willing to spout off rhetoric on command, or an independent human being with a healthy soul???
After the director yells "Cut": They all go into the make-up tent and then the food tent while some of them brush up on their holds and take downs.
Fuck off you sanctimonious prick! You have no idea what it's like to be one of those kids on the floor, or to have to see and hear that for hours on end. It ain't no fucking joke asshole. ::fuckoff::
You guys really believe everything you see on TV!! You really believe that crap. Its television folks !! If it was real it would be on PBS as a documentary , but if any of it is staged or set up it cant be classified as a documentary.
If I tried to back my position up based on a TV show I watched you wouldn?t accept it either and I wouldn?t blame you. I am not insensitive to kids getting hurt, I have never watched the series you are talking about.
Many of you really need to put things in better perspective. I know you are looking to back up your cause, but jeez dont use a TV show. Do you think "Real World" is real? You dont realize they prod them with sticks or throw fuel on the fire to liven things up a little and boast the ratings? That cant be a documentary either.
Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 08:19:43 PM
Quote from: ""Tokenstein""
Quote from: ""Guest""Is there a discount version available? We are kind of short on funds...Fuck no, buddy... you gotta pay top dollar for our professioal treatment. ... :rofl:
:rofl: ::bwahaha:: :skull: ::puke::
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 08:22:27 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
QuoteTo tell you the truth I really dont know. When I got the call that she had run away my mind was going a mile a minute, wondering if she was safe!! But it turned out she was just heading up the road and a counselor was trying to talk her back. (which he eventually did after about a mile out) We spoke for about an hour on the phone and she agreed to stay under the condition that she would be kicked out if she ran again. I didnt threaten her with any type of punishment as I remember. She told me later that I was really mad and asked her to try to get focused. She and I had a pact that if at anytime she didnt feel safe anywhere all she had to do is call me and say "I want you to come and get me". This was established when she was home and I told her if she called, there would be no questions asked (for that one night). So I knew everyday that she was in a safe place. Not sure what we would have done if she did get kicked out, probably try another place, different stategy.
It wouldn't of been hard for that male counselor to push your daughter into the bushes and attack her and scare her into keeping quiet. How would you feel about this program if that happened to your daughter? It's happened before. Does it bother you at all that you willingly put your daughter in that kind of situation? Or does it make you warm and fuzzy down below, come sit in papas lap kind of happy?
Sounds like you think she was more at risk at a TBS vs a public school system which has oversight where teachers rape the kids, drugs are everywhere, kids are getting shot.... TBS...Public school...TBS....Public school.. which should I choose. Hmmmm Tough choice.
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 08:23:43 PM
Quote
You guys really believe everything you see on TV!! You really believe that crap. Its television folks !! If it was real it would be on PBS as a documentary , but if any of it is staged or set up it cant be classified as a documentary.
If I tried to back my position up based on a TV show I watched you wouldn?t accept it either and I wouldn?t blame you. I am not insensitive to kids getting hurt, I have never watched the series you are talking about.
Many of you really need to put things in better perspective. I know you are looking to back up your cause, but jeez dont use a TV show. Do you think "Real World" is real? You dont realize they prod them with sticks or throw fuel on the fire to liven things up a little and boast the ratings? That cant be a documentary either.
Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings
Eyes shut, self preserved. You are the typical Amerikun we run into on a daily basis, it's not unique it's the most common reaction I get actually. "What you say CAN'T be true, someone would have stopped it already!" There is really only one response to this kind of ignorance.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 08:25:35 PM
Quote
Sounds like you think she was more at risk at a TBS vs a public school system which has oversight where teachers rape the kids, drugs are everywhere, kids are getting shot.... TBS...Public school...TBS....Public school.. which should I choose. Hmmmm Tough choice.
Been there done that, you keep believing what you need to believe man. I know it's got to be hard for you.
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 08:32:04 PM
Quote
I am not insensitive to kids getting hurt
Yes, you are. Do you think that girl screaming was acting?
Post by: Ganja on January 11, 2007, 08:33:43 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
QuoteI am not insensitive to kids getting hurt
Yes, you are. Do you think that girl screaming was acting?
I didn't think she was acting.
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 08:36:18 PM
Fuck. I'd be ashamed too..
Post by: RobertBruce on January 11, 2007, 08:36:43 PM
Who this is a very very simple concept. BACK UP YOUR FUCKING CLAIMS People come on here (with the exception of idiot trolls like you) for either one of two reasons. They either come to dispense information, or to gain it. When you come on here spouting off your misinformation pretending to know something about a field you not only know nothing about, but aren't interested in learning more about you only hurt and confuse the people who come here seeking information. If you believe the TBS industry is a good thing with more positive attributes than negative ones fine. Simply back up your claims when you state things to be factual. If you can't do that state things like "If I had to guess", because that's all it is. It is obvious YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT Case in point, the above claim is so far off base it's ridiculus. The percentage of kids abused, raped, or on drugs in TBS is astronomically higher than that of public schools.
Face facts, you are wrong.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 08:37:45 PM
Well put, Soo!
I can't understand why these parents signed their kids up for a reality show in the first place. Have these people never SEEN reality TV? Of COURSE they're going to show only the juicy side of the story, make participants look bad, etc. - that's what gets people to tune in!!
I can't think of a single reality show that hasn't somehow exploited its participants Even the Amazing Race (which I like and see as the best of the worst) makes sure viewers see all the fights and sneakiness.
Besides, where were all those people who now cry "social responsibility" when that awful "Littlest Groom" show aired?
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 11, 2007, 08:41:32 PM
Do you believe the girl screaming was acting? Yes or no.
Do you believe the staff memeber who was quoted as saying
"I CAN MAKE IT HURT!" as they girl was screaming on the floor, was acting? Yes or no.
Would you be offended if the girl in the video was your daughter? Yes or no.
These are simple questions.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 08:44:57 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Here is another opinion besides my own:
No, I don't doubt that the producers decided to use that piece of footage over some mundane event. That doesn't change the fact that what you saw is pretty much SOP for these places. Isolation and coersion.... either mental, physical or emotional. Same shit, different day. Do you really think that didn't hurt?
The fundamentals of this type of "therapy" have not changed. It's wrong. It's dangerous. And it needs to stop.
Post by: Ganja on January 11, 2007, 08:45:31 PM
Quote from: ""Guest420""
TheWho:
Do you believe the girl screaming was acting? Yes or no.
Do you believe the staff memeber who was quoted as saying
"I CAN MAKE IT HURT!" as they girl was screaming on the floor, was acting? Yes or no.
Would you be offended if the girl in the video was your daughter? Yes or no.
These are simple questions.
Thank you, 420.
Yes/no questions, Who..
Go!!
Post by: RobertBruce on January 11, 2007, 08:49:21 PM
Quote
You guys really believe everything you see on TV!! You really believe that crap. Its television folks !! If it was real it would be on PBS as a documentary
Sooo by that rational something on a show like dateline would be classified as a comedy?
Quote
If I tried to back my position up based on a TV show I watched you wouldn?t accept it either and I wouldn?t blame you
It would probably depend on the program. If you cited (something you'd never do as you see no need for you to cite sources) something on say 20/20 it would probably be accepted. This versus something you saw on Samford and Son not being accepted.
Quote
I am not insensitive to kids getting hurt
Yes you are. You made that clear by dismissing the youtube video's.
Quote
have never watched the series you are talking about.
Really? Well then case fucking closed I guess. You cannot dismiss something out of hand without having seen it to begin with. Dumbass. Why don't you watch it first then decide whether or not it's credible. There's no further need for you to speak on this matter until you watch the show.
Quote
Many of you really need to put things in better perspective. I know you are looking to back up your cause, but jeez dont use a TV show. Do you think "Real World" is real? You dont realize they prod them with sticks or throw fuel on the fire to liven things up a little and boast the ratings? That cant be a documentary either.
This again coming from the guy who refuses to back up a single one of his claims. Until you do we are free to argue any claim with you that comes to mind. There is no need to back it up or discriminate between sources. See watch this: In a recent survey 90% of TBS grads reported being abused while in their respective schools. My source need not be named. The fact stands.
Either back up your claims or shut the fuck up and move on. You add nothing to the conversation but humor at your own expense.
Quote
Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings
I will admit my sides hurt from laughing at you all the time, and I've probably said the phrase,"He can't be that stupid." several times over the past few days. Otherwise you've affected nothing for me.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 08:50:16 PM
It's hard to grade a show like this. The production is good and the storyline compelling enough to elicit an emotional reaction. Good filmmaking does that??
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2007, 08:51:41 PM
Post by: Ganja on January 11, 2007, 08:52:39 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 09:08:30 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""Guest420""TheWho:Thank you, 420.
Do you believe the girl screaming was acting? Yes or no.
Do you believe the staff memeber who was quoted as saying
"I CAN MAKE IT HURT!" as they girl was screaming on the floor, was acting? Yes or no.
Would you be offended if the girl in the video was your daughter? Yes or no.
These are simple questions.
Go!!
You know its difficult to decipher what is real or not when you are watching a show. There were "Real world" members who were interviewed on a radio talk show and stated that they hopped things up a level or 2 so they would get camera time. Most of these guys would never scream at cops in the streets, but with a camera crew following you around you act out of character sometimes.
So yea it looked damn real to me and I felt for the kids, but where does reality and film making start and end? It is television and one should be careful how you perceive it.
I think it is good that it raises the awareness of people and what kids can go thru at some of these places. It must be good for business because it is still going.
No I wouldn?t want my daughter to go thru that.
I am sure this isn?t what you want to hear and you can slam it left and right, but it is how I feel about TV shows , I am a little skeptical.
Like I mentioned earlier if the show focused on how well the kids did when they got out and the different colleges they eventually attended, just focused on the successful kids I don?t think the show would be as easily accepted here.
You may not say it but I don?t think we would be having this conversation if that were the case.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 11, 2007, 09:08:51 PM
Post by: Deborah on January 11, 2007, 09:08:53 PM
Aspen fucked up by letting that be aired. You know that and you have no rational excuse, so you divert, and make light of a girl being subjected to cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment. It's just damned unfortunate that human rights organizations didn't go on the attack.
Just like they fucked up by filming the kid being forced to eat burned oatmeal mush while standing over a pit in case he vomited. If you haven't seen them, then you also missed the 14 year old boy on solo, burrowed into his sleeping bag, shaking uncontrolably and crying for his mother. Treatment??? Torture??? Treatment??? Torture??? And, no you don't get to decide. Torture. The right people just haven't noticed this yet.
As I recall, it's illegal to abuse kids while filming movies and TV series. Where are the damned human rights orgs on this? Or maybe Britian film makers have different laws that allow for kids to be literally beaten, raped, tortured while filming. That sounds like porn.
You've changed too Who. You used to put forth a half-hearted attempt at rational debate. Did you spend the summer in seminars? You've gone from genuinely ignorant and deceptive to sadistic.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 11, 2007, 09:18:24 PM
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 11, 2007, 09:25:14 PM
Quote
I am sure this isn?t what you want to hear and you can slam it left and right, but it is how I feel about TV shows , I am a little skeptical.
When a program survivor writes a story describing abuse, programmies dismiss it and ask for proof in the form of pictures.
You give it to them in moving picture with sound and then they say they don't believe TV unless it's on PBS.
You can't win with these people.
I don't think awareness is the key to this problem, not one bit.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 09:35:27 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Yeh, all staged for the audience. Not a documercial, not a marketing ploy... That's why every Aspen site, NATSAP program sites, even WWASP sites, and most recently a religious program site, makes reference to the series.
Aspen fucked up by letting that be aired. You know that and you have no rational excuse, so you divert, and make light of a girl being subjected to cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment. It's just damned unfortunate that human rights organizations didn't go on the attack.
Just like they fucked up by filming the kid being forced to eat burned oatmeal mush while standing over a pit in case he vomited. If you haven't seen them, then you also missed the 14 year old boy on solo, burrowed into his sleeping bag, shaking uncontrolably and crying for his mother. Treatment??? Torture??? Treatment??? Torture??? And, no you don't get to decide. Torture. The right people just haven't noticed this yet.
As I recall, it's illegal to abuse kids while filming movies and TV series. Where are the damned human rights orgs on this? Or maybe Britian film makers have different laws that allow for kids to be literally beaten, raped, tortured while filming. That sounds like porn.
You've changed too Who. You used to put forth a half-hearted attempt at rational debate. Did you spend the summer in seminars? You've gone from genuinely ignorant and deceptive to sadistic.
I just saw the clip for the first time yesterday and found it was from a TV show. I don?t mind taking the brunt of your anger, but you need to understand how all this works. They first apply for a documentary status and apparently they got denied because who knows parts of it are not real, staged, not balanced (not showing good and bad) maybe one of those maybe all, so the next level is reality series, then weekly series etc.
You can honestly sit there with a straight face and say you would embrace this show if it were about only the kids who benefited, how much they got out of wilderness, which college they want to attend and the excitement as they all get accepted to the same college (surprise) and jump up and down hugging because they will be together. The series can continue to cover their college and professional advances in ?Brat Camp the college years? on and on.
I don?t think you would be onboard with it Deborah.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 09:42:53 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I just saw the clip for the first time yesterday and found it was from a TV show. I don?t mind taking the brunt of your anger, but I want you to understand how all this works. They first apply for a documentary status and apparently they got denied because who knows parts of it are not real, staged, not balanced (not showing good and bad) maybe one of those maybe all, so the next level is reality series, then weekly series etc.
I don't think anyone is claiming that it is a documentary in the true sense of the word. It's not. The incidents did happen, however. That cannot be dismissed. We, program vets from various eras and capacities, have told you that this is standard operating procedure for programs that are based on Synanon and LGAT methods. You dismiss that. We've told you that what we've read, even from your own and other supportive posts AND Aspen's own websites, is pretty much what we've experienced in our various programs. You dismiss that. You pretty much dismiss anything we have to say or point you towards while refusing to back up anything you've said. Deb's right. You're worse than before. I didn't think it was possible.
Post by: Ganja on January 11, 2007, 09:45:07 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 10:04:25 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I just saw the clip for the first time yesterday and found it was from a TV show. I don?t mind taking the brunt of your anger, but I want you to understand how all this works. They first apply for a documentary status and apparently they got denied because who knows parts of it are not real, staged, not balanced (not showing good and bad) maybe one of those maybe all, so the next level is reality series, then weekly series etc.
I don't think anyone is claiming that it is a documentary in the true sense of the word. It's not. The incidents did happen, however. That cannot be dismissed. We, program vets from various eras and capacities, have told you that this is standard operating procedure for programs that are based on Synanon and LGAT methods. You dismiss that. We've told you that what we've read, even from your own and other supportive posts AND Aspen's own websites, is pretty much what we've experienced in our various programs. You dismiss that. You pretty much dismiss anything we have to say or point you towards while refusing to back up anything you've said. Deb's right. You're worse than before. I didn't think it was possible.
Well, as they say ?When in Rome??.?. This is how I found Fornits to work. When I first started posting as well as many other first time parents along the way came here to tell their story it was dismissed also. The feed back was negative. Each time I answered someone?s question with how well my daughter was doing I was hit with ?Wait 5 years, she will kill you in your sleep? ?Wait till the brain washing wears off, she was never helped, you will see?. It seemed every negative experience needed to be attributed to the school and every positive growth needed to be attributed to natural maturation. Everyone was skeptical of every positive statement because of what they had previously learned or heard, I guess. If a new comer posted a bad experience there was instant acceptance of what they said no questions asked no need to prove they had a bad experience.
But anyway you can say I haven?t changed or gotten worse, but over the past 2 years I haven?t seen much of an effort to embrace or acknowledge the success or positive side of the TBS?s. So I think there have been dismissals on both sides.
I really don?t want to go back searching for examples?.. if you feel this is bs just pass to the next post.
Post by: TheWho on January 11, 2007, 10:05:45 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Yes or no, Who. :rofl:
I think I answered you a few posts back, I will see if I can find it.
Page 35, next one back.
Post by: Ganja on January 11, 2007, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Ganja""Yes or no, Who. :rofl:
I think I answered you a few posts back, I will see if I can find it.
Page 35, next one back.
Thanks, but it was actually Guest420 who asked the original (yes/no) questions...
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 10:22:09 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Well, as they say ?When in Rome??.?. This is how I found Fornits to work. When I first started posting as well as many other first time parents along the way came here to tell their story it was dismissed also. The feed back was negative. Each time I answered someone?s question with how well my daughter was doing I was hit with ?Wait 5 years, she will kill you in your sleep? ?Wait till the brain washing wears off, she was never helped, you will see?. It seemed every negative experience needed to be attributed to the school and every positive growth needed to be attributed to natural maturation. Everyone was skeptical of every positive statement because of what they had previously learned or heard, I guess. If a new comer posted a bad experience there was instant acceptance of what they said no questions asked no need to prove they had a bad experience.
Not true. What we've said is that based on our experiences both in programs and raising kids, that everything you've shown us or that we've found on our own about ASR and Carlbrook and HLA is precisely what we went through in our own programs as either inmates or employees. We've proven over and over again the dangers involved with LGAT seminars, Synanon methods, mental or physical coersion and on and on and you continue to simply dismiss them.
I don't doubt that you're happy with your outcome. My dad was too for many years. I was just talking with one of my daughter's friends tonight about this. She's home from college at Marywood (whodda thunk she'd go off to a Catholic school and become and atheist) and has been researching this on her own a bit, mainly the Stockholm Syndrome aspect of it. She's studying that right now and is now fascinated by Fornits and this whole sick industry. I didn't even realize for years what had been done to me. I knew it sucked. I knew I hated it, but I'd have told you that I "needed" it. That it "helped me realize things about myself" and "challenged me to find my true potential". I've heard and said everything that you are in defense of Straight.
Quote
But anyway you can say I haven?t changed or gotten worse, but over the past 2 years I haven?t seen much of an effort to embrace or acknowledge the success or positive side of the TBS?s. So I think there have been dismissals on both sides.
I guess there have. I flat out dismiss the notion that TBS are positive in any way, shape or form. You can't change someone against their will without breaking it first (nod to Cassandra).
Quote
I really don?t want to go back searching for examples?.. if you feel this is bs just pass to the next post.
Yeah, we know. :roll:
Post by: Deborah on January 11, 2007, 10:39:58 PM
2004 GRIERSON AWARD
BRAT CAMP series
Shortlisted, Best Documentary Series or Strand.
Tamara Abood, producer for London based Twenty Twenty Television, which created Brat Camp, says antisocial behavior among teen and issues of family breakdown were grabbing headlines and political attention in Britain at the time the show was being conceptualized. "The idea was to show how our cousins across the water tackle these issues," Abbod says. "We wanted to educate and inform families."....
Redcliff claims they were hesitant...and... "The thing that swayed us more than anything else is we were promised we would have therapeutic control over how things would go," he says. "We told the company we would not alter the program or stage events. We were going to do whatever was necessary to make sure it was in the child's best interest. We were there to provide treatment."
When Redcliff was asked to do a sequel they declined, "For a program to continue to be successful on TV it need to continually up itself the next season. When you're dealing with troubled kids and the wilderness, the only things we could think of were tougher kids or worse weather. We're not willing to take that risk."
Don't ya know they weren't.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 10:49:25 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
I knew I hated it, but I'd have told you that I "needed" it. That it "helped me realize things about myself" and "challenged me to find my true potential". I've heard and said everything that you are in defense of Straight.
Ugh, gawwd. Re-reading that made me want to throw up.
::puke::
Post by: Deborah on January 11, 2007, 11:05:47 PM
Shapiro said Brat Camp (a name he was stuck with contractually when the show concept was imported from England) is a serious documentary that will offer hope to thousands of parents dealing with troubled, ill-mannered children.
Redcliff says it's a Documentary and takes it pretty damn seriously
http://www.redcliffascent.com/brat_camp_history.html (http://www.redcliffascent.com/brat_camp_history.html)
SUWS calls it a Documentary
http://www.suwscarolinas.com/press-release.html (http://www.suwscarolinas.com/press-release.html)
as do all these other programs:
SageWalk was chosen for the Brat Camp series because our exciting, powerful, and transformational wilderness school is one of the most effective programs for reaching teens struggilng with behavior and academics.
http://www.sagewalk.com/bratcamp/ (http://www.sagewalk.com/bratcamp/)
Mountain Homes Youth Ranch works with the same types of youth who would qualify for the popular TV show "Brat Camp".
http://www.mhyr.com/brat_camp.html?gcli ... JAodpWA_9A (http://www.mhyr.com/brat_camp.html?gclid=CNTTiPju2YkCFTzqJAodpWA_9A)
Oh hell, that's enough. Point made.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 11, 2007, 11:07:30 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Oh hell, that's enough. Point made.
:nworthy: ::bangin:: ::cheers::
Post by: RobertBruce on January 11, 2007, 11:31:53 PM
I guess some things never change.
Cindy you may also want to bear in mind that you were told to no longer discuss the Brat Camp show, you never saw it thus you know nothing about it. Shut the fuck up.
Post by: AtomicAnt on January 12, 2007, 12:26:09 AM
Quote
Oversight is great, but this isnt the whole answer. Take a look at our public sector, are our kids safe in the public school system? No. Are they safer in a TBS setting, it is ovwewhelmingly Yes !! But unfortunately we hear from more of the unhappy experiences than the successful ones.
Most schools are safe. In fact, a child is more likely to be a victim of a violent crime in the community or at home than at school. In particular, homicides in school are extremely rare events.
- US Dept of Education annual report
Quote
again I agree, you cant change anyone against their will....Yes you can. If you couldn't, these programs would not exist. Escorted children are changing against their will.
Quote
But what if you educate them, guide them and show them a better way?This is the preferred method. Forced participation in wilderness is not guidance. It is coersion. It is forcing someone to change against their will.
Quote
I am a little skeptical.
No. You are not a little skeptical. You are in denial.
Post by: Oz girl on January 12, 2007, 03:20:41 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Well, as they say ?When in Rome??.?. This is how I found Fornits to work. When I first started posting as well as many other first time parents along the way came here to tell their story it was dismissed also. The feed back was negative. Each time I answered someone?s question with how well my daughter was doing I was hit with ?Wait 5 years, she will kill you in your sleep? ?Wait till the brain washing wears off, she was never helped, you will see?. It seemed every negative experience needed to be attributed to the school and every positive growth needed to be attributed to natural maturation. Everyone was skeptical of every positive statement because of what they had previously learned or heard, I guess. If a new comer posted a bad experience there was instant acceptance of what they said no questions asked no need to prove they had a bad experience.
But anyway you can say I haven?t changed or gotten worse, but over the past 2 years I haven?t seen much of an effort to embrace or acknowledge the success or positive side of the TBS?s. So I think there have been dismissals on both sides.
i find it interestinf when people say TBS worked. Even if your daugher went on to be the perfect kid and everyone loved each other afterward, this still does not make the practices of places like Brat camp or ASR ok.
Please Who tell me how you justify strip searching kids whether they are "in" for drugs or not?
What therapeudic benefit does banning perfectly normal wholesome freindships have? DJ and Tyrone in What it takes...
Why it is that nowhere else in the world has places where parents can pay people to punish kids for their misbehaviour? (with the exception of Britian if you count its branch of wellsprings)
Post by: Covergaard on January 12, 2007, 06:41:37 AM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
SUWS calls it a Documentary
http://www.suwscarolinas.com/press-release.html (http://www.suwscarolinas.com/press-release.html)
The program was a fake. Sherrie from "Britain?s Youngest Boozers" did not return home cured. In order to prevent her from speaking of the failure, she is presently detainee at Academy at Swift River (ASR) as a kind of prisoner of conscience. See:
http://www.aspeneducation.com/news-trevor.html (http://www.aspeneducation.com/news-trevor.html)
Post by: Troll Control on January 12, 2007, 08:33:30 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
wow.. 3 seconds in..
"I CAN MAKE IT HURT!"
I missed that the first time around. Absolutely chilling. Im surprised that the English people aren't more horrified that Americans are roughing up their kids like this, jezus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN0fRnnq3bA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN0fRnnq3bA)
Watched this one again. What I didn't notice the first time around, look how young the kids or "counselors" on each side of her look! LOL They look like fucking high school kids! They look like they are not having any fun. Everyone, prospective staff, parents kids.. fucking run from this industry as fast as you can!
The first thing that struck me here (besides the distress of the child) was two staff simultaneously wrist-locking both hands past 90 degrees which, if you know anything about kinesiology (or jiujitsu!), fucking hurts!
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 09:59:11 AM
Quote from: ""Covergaard""
Quote from: ""Deborah""SUWS calls it a Documentary
http://www.suwscarolinas.com/press-release.html (http://www.suwscarolinas.com/press-release.html)
The program was a fake. Sherrie from "Britain?s Youngest Boozers" did not return home cured. In order to prevent her from speaking of the failure, she is presently detainee at Academy at Swift River (ASR) as a kind of prisoner of conscience. See:
http://www.aspeneducation.com/news-trevor.html (http://www.aspeneducation.com/news-trevor.html)
As you said, the first one might have been a fake, I really cant say but looks like ASR has allowed a 60 minutes types program to film progress at their school. This should help calm the skeptics and give people a look at everyday life at ASR. Does anyone know if it has been aired or not? or if there is a schedule?
It wouldnt surprise me if it just fissled out, its pretty boring stuff compared with todays reality shows, no violence, drinking etc. just school, discussion groups, but I hope it pans out I would like to see it to see how things have changed.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 10:08:54 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Covergaard""Quote from: ""Deborah""SUWS calls it a Documentary
http://www.suwscarolinas.com/press-release.html (http://www.suwscarolinas.com/press-release.html)
The program was a fake. Sherrie from "Britain?s Youngest Boozers" did not return home cured. In order to prevent her from speaking of the failure, she is presently detainee at Academy at Swift River (ASR) as a kind of prisoner of conscience. See:
http://www.aspeneducation.com/news-trevor.html (http://www.aspeneducation.com/news-trevor.html)
As you said, the first one might have been a fake, I really cant say but looks like ASR has allowed a 60 minutes types program to film progress at their school. This should help calm the skeptics and give people a look at everyday life at ASR. Does anyone know if it has been aired or not? or if there is a schedule?
It wouldnt surprise me if it just fissled out, its pretty boring stuff compared with todays reality shows, no violence, drinking etc. just school, discussion groups, but I hope it pans out I would like to see it to see how things have changed.
60 Minutes did a piece on Straight when I was there. That was under Miller Newton's tenure and he was one of the worst abusers. The shit that was going on behind closed doors in that program while Beth Polson (60 Minutes producer who later did the movie version of Newton's book "Gone Way Down Teenage Drug Use is a Disease"), Nancy Reagan and Princess Di were visiting was horrific. All of it was successfully hidden from them. What the viewers got was the version Straight wanted them to see.... obedient, repenting little delinquents reciting AA steps, singing nursery rhymes or newage crap and swearing Straight saved their lives.
Post by: Deborah on January 12, 2007, 10:24:04 AM
Did you participate in the survey?
Is your daughter considered on of Aspen's successes?
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 10:26:54 AM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Covergaard""Quote from: ""Deborah""SUWS calls it a Documentary
http://www.suwscarolinas.com/press-release.html (http://www.suwscarolinas.com/press-release.html)
The program was a fake. Sherrie from "Britain?s Youngest Boozers" did not return home cured. In order to prevent her from speaking of the failure, she is presently detainee at Academy at Swift River (ASR) as a kind of prisoner of conscience. See:
http://www.aspeneducation.com/news-trevor.html (http://www.aspeneducation.com/news-trevor.html)
As you said, the first one might have been a fake, I really cant say but looks like ASR has allowed a 60 minutes types program to film progress at their school. This should help calm the skeptics and give people a look at everyday life at ASR. Does anyone know if it has been aired or not? or if there is a schedule?
It wouldnt surprise me if it just fissled out, its pretty boring stuff compared with todays reality shows, no violence, drinking etc. just school, discussion groups, but I hope it pans out I would like to see it to see how things have changed.
60 Minutes did a piece on Straight when I was there. That was under Miller Newton's tenure and he was one of the worst abusers. The shit that was going on behind closed doors in that program while Beth Polson (60 Minutes producer who later did the movie version of Newton's book "Gone Way Down Teenage Drug Use is a Disease"), Nancy Reagan and Princess Di were visiting was horrific. All of it was successfully hidden from them. What the viewers got was the version Straight wanted them to see.... obedient, repenting little delinquents reciting AA steps, singing nursery rhymes or newage crap and swearing Straight saved their lives.
So what you are saying is that we can't believe any of it. If the producers or the ones in control decided they want to show good stuff, that?s what we will see, keeping the bad stuff behind close doors and if they want to air the bad stuff (sensationalism) they will hold back the success stories. I see what you are saying. Personally if they showed kids eating Filet Mignon every night on White linen singing ?Rain drops on roses? I don?t think I would believe it myself. That?s the risk of TV the truth can be a little blurred or not there at all.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 12, 2007, 10:30:46 AM
Quote
I really cant say
Exactly, so shut the fuck up about it. Do you not understand Cindy you haven't a clue as to the reality of these places, thus you are in no position to talk about it.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 12, 2007, 10:31:39 AM
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 10:35:38 AM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Who,
Did you participate in the survey?
Is your daughter considered on of Aspen's successes?
No I dont think so. I filled out a follow-up of some sort but it was short, not much feedback was asked for, so I dont think it was a survey.
I dont know if she is considered one of their successes or not. We had a show contact us and asked if we would be interested in being interviewed. But we didnt do it.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 10:37:01 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
So what you are saying is that we can't believe any of it. If the producers or the ones in control decided they want to show good stuff, that?s what we will see, keeping the bad stuff behind close doors and if they want to air the bad stuff (sensationalism) they will hold back the success stories. I see what you are saying. Personally if they showed kids eating Filet Mignon every night on White linen singing ?Rain drops on roses? I don?t think I would believe it myself.
What I'm saying is that the producers and production staff have no clue what is going on inside. They're shown what the programs want them to see. Sure, the producers are going to pick the most shocking things but they can only choose those from what the programs allow them to see.
Quote
That?s the risk of TV the truth can be a little blurred or not there at all.
There is nothing blurry about using a wrist lock on a kid. Nothing blurry about pinning them to the ground. At all.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 12, 2007, 10:47:27 AM
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 10:52:57 AM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
So what you are saying is that we can't believe any of it. If the producers or the ones in control decided they want to show good stuff, that?s what we will see, keeping the bad stuff behind close doors and if they want to air the bad stuff (sensationalism) they will hold back the success stories. I see what you are saying. Personally if they showed kids eating Filet Mignon every night on White linen singing ?Rain drops on roses? I don?t think I would believe it myself.
What I'm saying is that the producers and production staff have no clue what is going on inside. They're shown what the programs want them to see. Sure, the producers are going to pick the most shocking things but they can only choose those from what the programs allow them to see.QuoteThat?s the risk of TV the truth can be a little blurred or not there at all.
There is nothing blurry about using a wrist lock on a kid. Nothing blurry about pinning them to the ground. At all.
I think we agree on some level, If they were looking at footage for the next show and they had a choice of the nice interview with a girl talking about how the school turned her life around and the colleges she got excepted to or the footage of another kid flipping out, bang is chair on the table because they wont serve him donuts for lunch as he is accustomed to at home with 2 counselors trying to calm him down grabing his arms so he doesnt take some other kids head off with the chair....... which one would get the thumbs up and the air time?. Which one depicts normal life?
everyone wants to put their best foot forward. If a news crew were coming to my house to do an interview I am sure my wife would have the place redone. Send the pesky dog to a neighbors house for a few hours, put flowers on the table etc.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 12, 2007, 10:59:09 AM
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 11:01:00 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I think we agree on some level, If they were looking at footage for the next show and they had a choice of the nice interview with a girl talking about how the school turned her life around and the colleges she got excepted to or the footage of another kid flipping out, bang is chair on the table because they wont serve him donuts for lunch as he is accustomed to at home with 2 counselors trying to calm him down grabing his arms so he doesnt take some other kids head off with the chair....... which one would get the thumbs up and the air time?. Which one depicts normal life?
No we don't. We don't agree on any level. Please don't say that again, it disturbs me greatly.
How typical that you would categorize the 'misbehaving' child like this. It has to be some spoiled brat pissed off cuz he didn't get his donuts. Couldn't possibly be a kid who simply doesn't buy into the bullshit, doesn't want to be there and is expressing that. Nope. It's obviously some ODD kid with "entitlement issues". :roll: :roll: You're a cold fucking fish.
Quote
everyone wants to put their best foot forward. If a news crew were coming to my house to do an interview I am sure my wife would have the place redone. Send the pesky dog to a neighbors house for a few hours, put flowers on the table etc.
It's a little more than straightening up for dinner guests you obtuse idiot. It's completely omitting the most crucial parts of the program. The things that makes it 'work'......control and coersion. Break 'em down, build 'em up.
Post by: Troll Control on January 12, 2007, 11:02:29 AM
Quote
TheWho wrote:
everyone wants to put their best foot forward. If a news crew were coming to my house to do an interview I am sure my wife would have the place redone. Send the pesky dog to a neighbors house for a few hours, put flowers on the table etc
Exactly, Who. You'd make a false impression (essentially lie), just like the programs do.
They take the 'bad' kids and isolate them on restrictions while the campus is toured by those whom the program seeks to influence - Ed Cons, prospective parents, regulatory bodies, etc.
Finally, Who, you've proven the point Anne has been making as well as admitting you think it's fine and dandy that the programs misrepresent themselves to the public. Thanks! You said a mouthful, Jack.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 11:40:50 AM
There is no break them down build them up at ASR!!! I agree that may be the only way to change someone?s mind who doesn?t want to be changed, but what if you show the kids a better way and they attach on to that and learn from it and change their behavior? If they don?t attach or embrace a new way of living the program will not work for them. If they did what you say and break them all down and build them up again all the kids would be the same and all graduate like clockwork. But some leave the program others have extended stays, some leave early, some go to college others don?t, some get worse others don?t get helped at all.
No need to name call. I haven?t called you names and I am just as frustrated with your lack of understanding. You assume too much.
Post by: Deborah on January 12, 2007, 11:54:23 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
There is no break them down build them up at ASR!!! I agree that may be the only way to change someone?s mind who doesn?t want to be changed, but what if you show the kids a better way and they attach on to that and learn from it and change their behavior?
What better way did your daughter attach to in order to change her behavior?
Quote
If they did what you say and break them all down and build them up again all the kids would be the same and all graduate like clockwork.
Not necessarily. Sometimes they break them down and leave them raw and vulnerable. 'Program resistent' kids are prone to be sent to wilderness and/or another gulag.
Quote
No need to name call.
Why bother? Asking not be called names is asking TO be called names.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 12, 2007, 11:56:30 AM
Sure, you can be 'stronger and better' as a result, but you can be a perfectly good person without suffering and going through shit, and the tolerance for suffering you get as a result of going through it doesn't really make up for what you had to go through instead of having joy in your life during the period of time you were suffering.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 12, 2007, 11:56:33 AM
Are you saying you're okay with programs hiding kids away and threatening them into silence in order to show people a perspective that is not accurate?
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 11:59:27 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Wow, everyone is so sensitive today. Its human nature to want to put your best foot forward and all businesses do it. It doesn?t have to be considered a false impression if you don?t want the dog barking the whole time you are trying to talk. I brought up the kids with the donuts because it happens to be a true occurrence, it happened when my daughter was there. Why does it have to be an disturbance that you choose?
Why do the situations YOU choose always end up with it being because the kid is a spoiled brat? The things I described DO happen....every day, in programs all over the country. This is not the case of a mortgage company putting it's best foot forward. They're dealing with children and making all kinds of claims of fixing them. They're fucking with their psyche.
Quote
There is no break them down build them up at ASR!!!
LGAT-style seminars. That's what they do.
Quote
I agree that may be the only way to change someone?s mind who doesn?t want to be changed, but what if you show the kids a better way and they attach on to that and learn from it and change their behavior?
That's what parenting and the process of growing up is for. Why do you people insist that someone else can better parent your child?
Quote
If they don?t attach or embrace a new way of living the program will not work for them.
Yes, that's true. And what happens to these kids who do not embrace this new way of living? How are they dealt with? What are they told will happen to them if they don't[/b] climb on board?
Quote
If they did what you say and break them all down and build them up again all the kids would be the same and all graduate like clockwork. But some leave the program others have extended stays, some leave early, some go to college others don?t, some get worse others don?t get helped at all.
How do you figure that? Abuse, coersion and torture effect different people different ways. My stepdad is a Viet Nam vet who's best friend served with him for 2 tours. They witnessed and experienced virtually the same things when they were there yet they are very differently effected by it.
Quote
No need to name call. I haven?t called you names and I am just as frustrated with your lack of understanding. You assume too much.
No, we've just dealt with you and your self-righteous, dismissive and condescending tone for far too long.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 12:03:42 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
"Break down and build up" is bullshit. Emotional scarring and trauma are not good things.
Sure, you can be 'stronger and better' as a result, but you can be a perfectly good person without suffering and going through shit, and the tolerance for suffering you get as a result of going through it doesn't really make up for what you had to go through instead of having joy in your life during the period of time you were suffering.
Many kids grow and suffer at home. Trying to get thru the teenage years is difficult at best and their can be much pain involved as they grow. The pain and suffering may not be the result of the school but may be natural maturation. I think we can all point to many kids we knew who grew and matured at home and it wasnt considered a joyous occasion.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 12:09:12 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Many kids grow and suffer at home. Trying to get thru the teenage years is difficult at beast and their ican much pain involved as they grow.
That's the natural process that is supposed to happen. You guys take that away when you ship these kids off.
Quote
The pain and suffering may not be the result of the school but may be natural maturation. I think we can all point to many kids we knew who grew and matured at home and it wasnt considered a joyous occasion.
I've used this analogy before but it fits. I was raped when I was 15. It made me stronger eventually. I sure would go back in time and remove that night from my life if I could though. Whatever growth comes from abuse isn't worth it.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 12:12:58 PM
Quote
Yes, that's true. And what happens to these kids who do not embrace this new way of living? How are they dealt with? What are they told will happen to them if they don't climb on board?
They don?t improve and some leave the program others eventually catch on. You need to remember every school isn?t a good match for every kid.
Quote
Why do the situations YOU choose always end up with it being because the kid is a spoiled brat?I am not saying he was spoiled, just use to a different , unhealthy lifestyle. We can change it to ? A kid banging his chair on the table because he is being forced to do something he doesn?t want to do?
Quote
No, we've just dealt with you and your self-righteous, dismissive and condescending tone for far too long.
And you have not dismissed that TBS?s are good for some kids?
Post by: RobertBruce on January 12, 2007, 12:16:39 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 12:17:39 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Many kids grow and suffer at home. Trying to get thru the teenage years is difficult at beast and their ican much pain involved as they grow.
That's the natural process that is supposed to happen. You guys take that away when you ship these kids off.
QuoteThe pain and suffering may not be the result of the school but may be natural maturation. I think we can all point to many kids we knew who grew and matured at home and it wasnt considered a joyous occasion.
I've used this analogy before but it fits. I was raped when I was 15. It made me stronger eventually. I sure would go back in time and remove that night from my life if I could though. Whatever growth comes from abuse isn't worth it.
I was referring to the pain and suffering of growing up at home naturally, not kids that were beaten or raped. I believe pain and suffering can be a natural process of getting thru the teen years for most kids.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 12:19:06 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
And you have not dismissed that TBS?s are good for some kids?
You haven't been paying attention, have you. Yes. I have outright dismissed the idea that TBSs and LGAT-style seminars are good for some kids.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 12:21:18 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""TOKER""How about that 'deluxe edition' release of Live at Leeds, Who?
Is that some good live playing, or what?? Goddam, but The Who could fuckin' jam! :smokin:
There's a lot of good music on those two CDs that was left off of the original LP release way back when. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the vinyl medium as much as the next old dude but this is a damned good "record" here. If you haven't heard it yet, you neeed to, Who. :rofl:
I havent heard the Delux edition, just purchased the full DVD collection of ?Led Zepplin? a couple of weeks ago, I haven?t heard Album I in years.
The Who could Jam, I caught them at the Spectrum in Philadelphia in 1973, I think. It was their Quadraphenia tour, They cranked ?The real me? for about 30 minutes, I think, My generation, The sea. When they finished up, no one screamed for an encore but just sat there silent for 10 minutes and lit what ever they had, lighter, candle etc. and finally the keyboard started on a dark stage and he played a 10 minute 20 minute intro to ?Wont be fooled again? then one by one ,Townsend, Entwistle came on stage, slow spotlight on Moon and finally Daltry came flying across the stage on his knees screaming. It was unbelievable. It wasn?t my top concert but definitely top 5.
This thread is supposed to be about The Who, isn't it? :question:
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 12:22:34 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I was referring to the pain and suffering of growing up at home naturally, not kids that were beaten or raped. I believe pain and suffering can be a natural process of getting thru the teen years for most kids.
Sure, if they're allowed to grow up at home naturally. You people yank that chance out from under them.
Actually, the rape was much easier to deal with than the emotional toll that Straight took from me. The raps that were supposed to "free us" and "show us a better way of life" fucked me up but good. Those raps, like the LGATs, are....pay attention now....inherently dangerous.
Those raps, like the LGATs, are....pay attention now....inherently dangerous.
Those raps, like the LGATs, are....pay attention now....inherently dangerous.
Those raps, like the LGATs, are....pay attention now....inherently dangerous.
Those raps, like the LGATs, are....pay attention now....inherently dangerous.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 12:32:21 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
And you have not dismissed that TBS?s are good for some kids?
You haven't been paying attention, have you. Yes. I have outright dismissed the idea that TBSs and LGAT-style seminars are good for some kids.
Then why does it bother you when others are dissmissive towards your views?
Post by: Deborah on January 12, 2007, 12:32:42 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I am not saying he was spoiled, just use to a different , unhealthy lifestyle. We can change it to ? A kid banging his chair on the table because he is being forced to do something he doesn?t want to do?
What does the program do that mom/dad couldn't?
Force doesn't work for teen, anyone for that matter. It's a direct insult to their intelligence. Fight or flight kicks in, and in program can result in a restraint.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 12, 2007, 12:34:40 PM
Quote
Then why does it bother you when others are dissmissive towards your views?
Because we can back up our views, you can't.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 12:37:45 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Then why does it bother you when others are dissmissive towards your views?
We've posted actual studies (in addition to countless personal accounts and now even video) that have shown that this type of confrontative "therapy" is not only useless, but dangerous. You've given us basically this...."it works, I don't know or care how. It changed my kid. The end justifies the means". That I dismiss.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 12:40:19 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I was referring to the pain and suffering of growing up at home naturally, not kids that were beaten or raped. I believe pain and suffering can be a natural process of getting thru the teen years for most kids.
Sure, if they're allowed to grow up at home naturally. You people yank that chance out from under them.
Actually, the rape was much easier to deal with than the emotional toll that Straight took from me. The raps that were supposed to "free us" and "show us a better way of life" fucked me up but good. Those raps, like the LGATs, are....pay attention now....inherently dangerous.
Those raps, like the LGATs, are....pay attention now....inherently dangerous.
Those raps, like the LGATs, are....pay attention now....inherently dangerous.
Those raps, like the LGATs, are....pay attention now....inherently dangerous.
Those raps, like the LGATs, are....pay attention now....inherently dangerous.
Hello ? another rdropped call? I dont think you have been paying attention either. I agree 100% that some schools and straight (from what I learned) can be harmful. I have been saying this for years!!! I am sorry that happened to you, but it doesnt happen everywhere.
Kids grow up naturally at home, yes? Is it painful sometimes for them in their teen years, Yes? Are kids that are at ASR in their teen years, Yes? Is it possible that they are growing there and it is painful, Yes?
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 12:42:28 PM
Quote
I believe pain and suffering can be a natural process of getting thru the teen years for most kids.
Just sit there for a bit and consider the ramifications of this.
Ooh, another one:
Quote
Is it possible that they are growing there and it is painful, Yes?
Don't reply. Just let this thread die here. This sentence says more to sane parents than anything we possibly could.
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 12, 2007, 12:43:47 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
I can't believe the rest of you didn't pick up on this one:QuoteI believe pain and suffering can be a natural process of getting thru the teen years for most kids.
Just sit there for a bit and consider the ramifications of this.
You don't see that much on program brochures.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 12, 2007, 12:44:23 PM
Quote
Hello ? another rdropped call? I dont think you have been paying attention either. I agree 100% that some schools and straight (from what I learned) can be harmful. I have been saying this for years!!! I am sorry that happened to you, but it doesnt happen everywhere.
Kids grow up naturally at home, yes? Is it painful sometimes for them in their teen years, Yes? Are kids that are at ASR in their teen years, Yes? Is it possible that they are growing there and it is painful, Yes?
If you believe this then what the fuck are you babbeling about?
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 12:46:24 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Hello ? another rdropped call? I dont think you have been paying attention either. I agree 100% that some schools and straight (from what I learned) can be harmful. I have been saying this for years!!! I am sorry that happened to you, but it doesnt happen everywhere.
It does happen everywhere that LGAT/confrontational therapy is used.
Quote
Kids grow up naturally at home, yes? Is it painful sometimes for them in their teen years, Yes? Are kids that are at ASR in their teen years, Yes? Is it possible that they are growing there and it is painful, Yes?
Why do you think that strangers can do a better job of raising your kids than you can? Painful is bad when it's done purposely to create some sort of revelation or change in a person. When someone chooses to grow from a naturally occuring painful experience, it's a completely different thing. You remove that natural process. You remove the opportunity for them to learn and grow for themselves, which is ultimately the only thing that will help them.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 12:46:44 PM
Quote
I believe pain and suffering can be a natural process of getting thru the teen years for most kids.
Quote
Are kids that are at ASR in their teen years, Yes? Is it possible that they are growing there and it is painful, Yes?
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 12:49:09 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
I can't believe the rest of you didn't pick up on this one:QuoteI believe pain and suffering can be a natural process of getting thru the teen years for most kids.
Just sit there for a bit and consider the ramifications of this.
Ooh, another one:QuoteIs it possible that they are growing there and it is painful, Yes?
Don't reply. Just let this thread die here. This sentence says more to sane parents than anything we possibly could.
I may have to concede this point Milk. But that's why I think it's important to entertain this nonsense if only for a little while. These people really do end up revealing much more about themselves than they intend to.
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 12, 2007, 12:51:51 PM
2005-2007 RIP
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 12:54:25 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
I can't believe the rest of you didn't pick up on this one:QuoteI believe pain and suffering can be a natural process of getting thru the teen years for most kids.
Just sit there for a bit and consider the ramifications of this.
Ooh, another one:QuoteIs it possible that they are growing there and it is painful, Yes?
Don't reply. Just let this thread die here. This sentence says more to sane parents than anything we possibly could.
You should read more. The natural process of moving through the teenage years is very painful as they grow socially, emotionally, feeling awkward, dealing with acne, physical growth, trying to find their place, wanting to be an adult?.. and it goes on. Its not the best time for most kids.
Yours may have been different (not all are the same). If you were, say, captain of the football team you may have peaked out early and look back on those years as the best. But believe me most don?t, they are very painful times for most.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 12:56:41 PM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
may he rot for all eternity with maggots feasting on his eyeballs or something nasty like that.
Ha,ha boy thats graphic!!
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 01:02:50 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
I may have to concede this point Milk. But that's why I think it's important to entertain this nonsense if only for a little while. These people really do end up revealing much more about themselves than they intend to.
The torture never stops!
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 01:04:14 PM
(http://http://www.lodgephoto.com/galleries/usa/sanfrancisco/folsomstfair/images/US-B-210.jpg)
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 01:24:12 PM
One of the biggest items, at least for me, is that many here on this thread still believe that all TBS?s are the same and success does not exist.
Schools like ASR, which have been found to be very successful, are lumped in with those who are less successful thereby drawing a cloud on the entire industry. The schools are getting more visibility via TV shows and documentaries as the word gets out and success is becoming more widespread.
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 12, 2007, 01:27:00 PM
Quote
One of the biggest items, at least for me, is that many here on this thread still believe that all TBS?s are the same and success does not exist.
The sliding scale of abuse and trauma. That's not an accident, it's a market designed to offer all parents an option, and not all parents want the light version. Coercion always leaves a scar, even if done with a smile.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 01:30:45 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
So I guess to rap this up we can conclude that there are schools out there who have abused kids and use tactics which are not beneficial to a childs growth. (I think we agree on this item)
Yes.
Quote
Many schools have improved and grown since the 70?s and 80?s.
No, they've refined their marketing techniques.
Quote
( I seem to get less resistance from people on this statement, which is better than a year ago)
How do you come to this conclusion?
Quote
One of the biggest items, at least for me, is that many here on this thread still believe that all TBS?s are the same and success does not exist.
Traditional, regular, no therapy boarding school....might suck, but not abusive. TBS that uses LGAT and confrontational tactics (ASR)? Abusive.
Quote
Schools like ASR, which have been found to be very successful,
Found by the staff to be successful.
Quote
are lumped in with those who are less successful thereby drawing a cloud on the entire industry.
As it should be. Forced therapy of any kind is bad, bad, bad.
Quote
The schools are getting more visibility via TV shows and documentaries as the word gets out and success is becoming more widespread.
We'll see.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 12, 2007, 01:56:45 PM
Quote
Schools like ASR, which have been found to be very successful, are lumped in with those who are less successful thereby drawing a cloud on the entire industry. The schools are getting more visibility via TV shows and documentaries as the word gets out and success is becoming more widespread.
Then why are they closing down left and right. Simply back up your claim that ASR is a good and safe place. That's all I ask, back something up with some sort of evidence.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 01:58:44 PM
Quote
Traditional, regular, no therapy boarding school....might suck, but not abusive. TBS that uses LGAT and confrontational tactics (ASR)? Abusive
Well we are getting closer, I?ll accept that for now. As people come to see that ASR is not abusive, this will be a short divide to overcome.
Quote
Found by the staff to be successful.
Yes staff and families.
Quote
As it should be. Forced therapy of any kind is bad, bad, bad.
Agreed
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 02:00:53 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteTraditional, regular, no therapy boarding school....might suck, but not abusive. TBS that uses LGAT and confrontational tactics (ASR)? Abusive
Well we are getting closer, I?ll accept that for now. As people come to see that ASR is not abusive, this will be a short divide to overcome.
Does ASR use LGAT or confrontational type therapy sessions or not? Simple question, requiring a simple yes or no answer.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 02:00:55 PM
Quote
I believe pain and suffering can be a natural process of getting thru the teen years for most kids.
Quote
Is it possible that they are growing there and it is painful, Yes?
Quote
The natural process of moving through the teenage years is very painful
The fact that he believes this is more than enough to prove what kind of sadistic idiot he is.
Please, for the love of Christ, let it die.
Post by: Troll Control on January 12, 2007, 02:02:04 PM
Quote
TheWho wrote:
There is no break them down build them up at ASR!!!
Oh yes there is. Their philosophy is based upon it. Not to mention that ASR does in fact use LGAT seminars and is currently employing them openly. In fact, they have advertised this on StrugglingTeens very recently as "safe and effective," which has been proven false in clinical studies since the 1960's. TheWho is TheLiar.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 02:03:21 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
God dammit! Don't let this retard keep trolling you!
He's not.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 02:08:38 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteTraditional, regular, no therapy boarding school....might suck, but not abusive. TBS that uses LGAT and confrontational tactics (ASR)? Abusive
Well we are getting closer, I?ll accept that for now. As people come to see that ASR is not abusive, this will be a short divide to overcome.
Does ASR use LGAT or confrontational type therapy sessions or not? Simple question, requiring a simple yes or no answer.
No they dont, at least when my daughter was there.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 02:16:19 PM
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 02:16:26 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteTraditional, regular, no therapy boarding school....might suck, but not abusive. TBS that uses LGAT and confrontational tactics (ASR)? Abusive
Well we are getting closer, I?ll accept that for now. As people come to see that ASR is not abusive, this will be a short divide to overcome.
Does ASR use LGAT or confrontational type therapy sessions or not? Simple question, requiring a simple yes or no answer.
No they dont, at least when my daughter was there.
http://www.swiftriver.com/personal_growth.htm (http://www.swiftriver.com/personal_growth.htm)
The Academy at Swift River is a 16-19 month long program with an average length of stay of 16 months. During our therapeutic boarding school residential program students progress in their daily academic classes and study halls, participate in Focus Groups, and complete an extensive four-part series of academic, social, personal growth, and family seminars.Students are challenged on a daily basis to raise their standards of academic and personal growth, to receive positive peer/faculty reinforcement, and to identify and develop their true self as it relates to peers, family, and community.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 12, 2007, 02:19:27 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 02:26:04 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteTraditional, regular, no therapy boarding school....might suck, but not abusive. TBS that uses LGAT and confrontational tactics (ASR)? Abusive
Well we are getting closer, I?ll accept that for now. As people come to see that ASR is not abusive, this will be a short divide to overcome.
Does ASR use LGAT or confrontational type therapy sessions or not? Simple question, requiring a simple yes or no answer.
No they dont, at least when my daughter was there.
http://www.swiftriver.com/personal_growth.htm (http://www.swiftriver.com/personal_growth.htm)
The Academy at Swift River is a 16-19 month long program with an average length of stay of 16 months. During our therapeutic boarding school residential program students progress in their daily academic classes and study halls, participate in Focus Groups, and complete an extensive four-part series of academic, social, personal growth, and family seminars.Students are challenged on a daily basis to raise their standards of academic and personal growth, to receive positive peer/faculty reinforcement, and to identify and develop their true self as it relates to peers, family, and community.
I attended the family seminars a few times. What this was , besides a chance to get to know the other parents, was an update on how your child was dong. A chance for them to ask questions, share their experiences. Some kids were afraid to ask their parents certain questions and this was a safe place for them to ask. They had their peers and counselors there to help them, parents could discuss their goals with their kids etc.
It was very positive and valuable for us
Looks like they lengthened the stay. It use to be 14-16 months, I believe.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 02:26:23 PM
Quote
At the time of admission, however, these are not the descriptors that many would use to characterize them. Instead, they are typically seen as underachieving, impulsive, and oppositional and defiant. Many of our students begin their journey at Swift River possessing a low self-esteem, making poor decisions, lacking a direction in life, and not understanding the negative impact that they are having on their family and friends.
How exactly do they get these kids to "gain an understanding of the negative impact they are having on their family and friends"?
If they're "oppositional and defiant", how do you get and keep them there if not by force or coersion?
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 02:32:56 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
http://www.swiftriver.com/personal_growth.htm (http://www.swiftriver.com/personal_growth.htm)
The Academy at Swift River is a 16-19 month long program with an average length of stay of 16 months. During our therapeutic boarding school residential program students progress in their daily academic classes and study halls, participate in Focus Groups, and complete an extensive four-part series of academic, social, personal growth, and family seminars.Students are challenged on a daily basis to raise their standards of academic and personal growth, to receive positive peer/faculty reinforcement, and to identify and develop their true self as it relates to peers, family, and community.
THAT ^^^^^^^ is not a traditional boarding school. THAT is LGAT based, EST based, Synanon based, psycho babble bullshit. Any way you fucking cut it.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 02:33:54 PM
Post by: ZenAgent on January 12, 2007, 02:34:31 PM
Love the even and measured tone, Whodude, but I'll bet your monitor's got cracks in it and your keyboard's a wreck from angrily whacking them before composing yourself and your replies.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 02:35:16 PM
8-)
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 02:38:24 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Now that you've been spanked, yet again.....I must be off. Gotta get the boat ready to head down to Sarasota tomorrow.
8-)
Nah, its okay, I think it has been positive and we made some good progress.
Have a good trip.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 02:40:57 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
For those that are new to this and are not familiar with ASR. I think one misconception that goes along with TBS?s is that "the Kid needs to be fixed?. This is hardly ever the case, it is always a family problem and ASR takes the approach of including the entire family, everyone gets a chance to talk things out in a small group. Even siblings come if they are of an appropriate age and want to be involved
:roll: :roll:
http://www.swiftriver.com/student_profile.htm (http://www.swiftriver.com/student_profile.htm)
At the time of admission, however, these are not the descriptors that many would use to characterize them. Instead, they are typically seen as underachieving, impulsive, and oppositional and defiant. Many of our students begin their journey at Swift River possessing a low self-esteem, making poor decisions, lacking a direction in life, and not understanding the negative impact that they are having on their family and friends. Additionally, many of our students have experimented with drugs and/or alcohol, been sexually promiscuous, are acting out at home and in the classroom, and have shown decreasing respect for themselves and others. These students are also making poor choices of peers and have become unresponsive to authority figures.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 02:41:32 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""Now that you've been spanked, yet again.....I must be off. Gotta get the boat ready to head down to Sarasota tomorrow.
8-)
Nah, its okay, I think it has been positive and we made some good progress.
Have a good trip.
Still think you're a moron, but thanks. I will.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 02:49:08 PM
Quote
Hey, Who...Was Don Vardell the administrator during your malingering association with ASR? He was at Peninsula Village. Does ASR change administrators as often as PV, like every 1 1/2 years?
I don?t recall the name, but many staff names have changed in the past 3 years.
Quote
Love the even and measured tone, Whodude, but I'll bet your monitor's got cracks in it and your keyboard's a wreck from angrily whacking them before composing yourself and your replies.
That?s funny, Yeah, I hear ya. My nephew was over and hooked me up to a 70? plasma screen. We saw one at a party over Christmas where people were picking music off the screen. It was kind of cool, so he tossed my monitor and now I have to throw something at it because it is across the room. I can still bang my keyboard on the table, though.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 02:53:46 PM
Community based care is the gold standard for behavioral therapy and treatment.
I don't use the term "behavior modification" because of its Skinnerian implications, the poor understanding of laymen as to the ramifications of various Skinnerian techniques as applied to humans, and the poor judgment of a class of substandard providers in application of those techniques.
Most mental health patients have dysfunctional behaviors and maladaptice coping strategies that need to be replaced with functional, adaptive ones in treatment. Patients need help to perceive the problems some behaviors are causing them and to learn a variety of alternative behaviors and strategies they can select from--select for themselves--to get their needs and wants met without the bad effects of the problem behaviors.
Medical model RTC's have a valid place in the industry because psychiatry still has problems matching up individual patients with biomedical mental illnesses with the medications that will stabilize them without unliveable side effects. When a specific patient's medication match-up is exceptionally challenging to find, the trial and error process can take long enough that the patient needs an RTC for safety, or wants one for convenience, speed, or comfort. It has to be pretty bad for the patient to be more comfortable in an inpatient setting---inpatient mental health care is almost always no fun at all. At least medical model RTC's don't take pains to make the medical stabilization process more unpleasant for the patient.
Substance abuse inpatient facilities, voluntarily and for limited time, or court-ordered for limited time when substance abuse endangers others, have a valid place in the industry.
Behavior modification facilities are contra-indicated for unstabilized mental illness, and are contra-indicated for basic substance abuse for various reasons.
Behavior modification facilities are contra-indicated for criminality because without due process of law, there's too much risk of incarcerating those who are innocent or simple misdemeanants, which does far more harm than good.
Behavior modification facilities, being essentially privately-run penitentiaries---in the original meaning of the term---aren't necessarily contraindicated for felony criminal offenders convicted with due process of law. It's just that private prisons typically have a worse track record for cruel and unusual treatment of inmates, and other violations of inmate rights, than government-run prisons.
Misdemeanants who get jail time are better served with short, finite sentences in jails with other misdemeanants, not felons. They are usually better served with community service and ordered community-based care than jail time.
Behavior modification facilities are simply inferior to community based care for treating dysfunctional behaviors and maladaptive coping behaviors of non-criminal teen and adult patients.
The TBS is a treatment for nobody. Where it's not contra-indicated outright by the patient's serious problems, it's clearly inferior to other treatment options.
I, personally, do not believe it is abusive to require a teen with behavior problems to attend therapy sessions. I do believe it is abusive to punish a teen or anyone else for what they do or don't do in therapy sessions as long as they aren't attacking people or property. I do believe it is abusive to violate therapist-patient confidentiality for teens except for warning of threats of harm to self or others.
This is a very moderate position on mental health including involuntary care of teens, and a very moderate position on incarceration of teens who perpetrate crimes.
Opposing TBS's as a treatment modality for teen problems is no more extreme than opposing freudian psychoanalysis, past life regression therapy, or homeopathy as treatment modalities.
TBS's are frequently harmful, and at best substandard treatment for any psychiatric, psychological, or behavioral problem in the book.
It doesn't matter how well a TBS is run. For any problem that does require taking a kid out of the home, there are better options. For any problem that does not require taking a kid out of the home, taking the kid out of the home does more harm than good--as government literature reviews of extant studies have found.
If I'm morbidly obese, and I eat a calorie reducing 50% of calories from fat, 50 calories of carbs, and the rest from protein every day, I will lose weight. It's a stupid way to do it compared to the optimal solution of balanced diet, healthy glycemic index, moderately reduced calorie, and moderate exercise.
One can be a weight loss moderate and totally, adamantly opposed to starvation diets or diets lacking essential nutrients. An educated, sensible weight loss moderate is totally opposed to those things.
An educated, sensible mental health moderate not only can be but must be totally opposed to TBS's---because, like the crash diet, they're a failed, frequently dangerous, always sub-optimal treatment.
I would not, however, be opposed to a traditional prep school, open campus---meaning in a town or city and students completely free to go into town in their free time, that made appointments for students to be independently evaluated by board-certified adolescent psychiatrists upon parental request, that provided a counseling center for voluntary non-group student treatment with full HIPAA therapeutic confidentiality plus confidentiality from parents, that provided a counseling center with mandatory non-group attendance for students who had committed what would otherwise be an expulsion offense--mandatory being that attendance is a condition for continued enrollment--but still with full HIPAA therapeutic confidentiality plus confidentiality from parents and no punishment of any kind for attendance minus "satisfactory participation," or that worked in concert with a medical model RTC (even if owned by the same entity) only for genuinely voluntary inpatient care or involuntary inpatient care in situations that would qualify an adult for involuntary commitment. Any group therapy should always be strictly voluntary with no coercive measures whatsoever, and should only take place with full, informed consent of the patient.
In other words, Hogwarts with a good, ethical counseling center and timely medical care (psychiatry is medical), and ethical counseling as an alternative to expulsion, is fine.
Note that all Hogwarts thirteen year olds, with permission slips, are allowed Hogsmeade visits. If the school makes one of its selling points how good its mental health support is, it should require that permission slip as a condition of acceptance to the school to prevent the demonstrated hazards of therapeutic abuses.
The reason mandatory attendance without a requirement for satisfactory participation is not a paper tiger is that most people, if they absolutely have to be in the room regularly with a competent, ethical therapist, simply can't help interacting with the therapist. This results in people who don't have genuine problems being inconvenienced and annoyed, and people who do have genuine problems being helped in a way that is highly unlikely to do harm.
Any therapist or psychiatrist who doesn't have, "First, do no harm," as priority one of their ethics is a dangerous quack.
Julie[/i]
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 03:01:16 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""For those that are new to this and are not familiar with ASR. I think one misconception that goes along with TBS?s is that "the Kid needs to be fixed?. This is hardly ever the case, it is always a family problem and ASR takes the approach of including the entire family, everyone gets a chance to talk things out in a small group. Even siblings come if they are of an appropriate age and want to be involved
:roll: :roll:
http://www.swiftriver.com/student_profile.htm (http://www.swiftriver.com/student_profile.htm)
At the time of admission, however, these are not the descriptors that many would use to characterize them. Instead, they are typically seen as underachieving, impulsive, and oppositional and defiant. Many of our students begin their journey at Swift River possessing a low self-esteem, making poor decisions, lacking a direction in life, and not understanding the negative impact that they are having on their family and friends. Additionally, many of our students have experimented with drugs and/or alcohol, been sexually promiscuous, are acting out at home and in the classroom, and have shown decreasing respect for themselves and others. These students are also making poor choices of peers and have become unresponsive to authority figures.
Sorry you disagree. Most of the problems that are affecting the child effect the entire family and it becomes a family issue.
I know a lot of people dislike analogies and it might sound a little hokey but one way to look at it:
If your car is having alignment issues because you hit a curb you cant just send that one tire in to be fixed. The tire does need to be adjusted but the whole car needs to go in also to make sure its in balance with the other tires and make adjustments as a whole.
Sorry, I know a lot of people dislike analogies.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 03:03:36 PM
Quote
Any therapist or psychiatrist who doesn't have, "First, do no harm," as priority one of their ethics is a dangerous quack.
Thanks Julie, thats why we were recommended and chose ASR.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 12, 2007, 03:07:32 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteHey, Who...Was Don Vardell the administrator during your malingering association with ASR? He was at Peninsula Village. Does ASR change administrators as often as PV, like every 1 1/2 years?
I don?t recall the name, but many staff names have changed in the past 3 years.QuoteLove the even and measured tone, Whodude, but I'll bet your monitor's got cracks in it and your keyboard's a wreck from angrily whacking them before composing yourself and your replies.
That?s funny, Yeah, I hear ya. My nephew was over and hooked me up to a 70? plasma screen. We saw one at a party over Christmas where people were picking music off the screen. It was kind of cool, so he tossed my monitor and now I have to throw something at it because it is across the room. I can still bang my keyboard on the table, though.
I see. Why do you think ASR and PV go through staff at all levels so quickly? It can't be a good thing.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 03:28:48 PM
Quote
I see. Why do you think ASR and PV go through staff at all levels so quickly? It can't be a good thing.
I see it as very normal. The jobs are very high stress, the counselors work a ton of hours and even spend some of their own times there. The people get burned out very quickly working with so many kids, so many issues, many demanding parents . Some cycle in and out of different jobs within ASR to relieve some of the pressure. Some leave and come back. But many move on and go back to school further their careers else where. Very few people, in many professions, stay at a job their whole lives. If you move around you can increase your pay, broaden your experience and find your niche. Seems to be more and more the norm these days.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 03:30:18 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteI see. Why do you think ASR and PV go through staff at all levels so quickly? It can't be a good thing.
I see it as very normal. The jobs are very high stress, the counselors work a ton of hours and even spend some of their own times there. The people get burned out very quickly working with so many kids, so many issues, many demanding parents . Some cycle in and out of different jobs within ASR to relieve some of the pressure. Some leave and come back. But many move on and go back to school further their careers else where. Very few people, in many professions, stay at a job their whole lives. If you move around you can increase your pay, broaden your experience and find your niche. Seems to be more and more the norm these days.
Then why is it that they just shuffle around to another program? If they're so burned out, why jump out of the frying pan into the fire?
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 03:31:46 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteAny therapist or psychiatrist who doesn't have, "First, do no harm," as priority one of their ethics is a dangerous quack.
Thanks Julie, thats why we were recommended and chose ASR.
Somehow, I don't think she meant that as an attaboy towards you.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 03:32:55 PM
However, if the parents of a perhaps (perhaps not) screwed up kid are bound and determined to abandon him, I think a traditional prep school is a less bad option than many.
If the parents are unfit--as dumping a perceived-damaged kid "away" despite his documented best interests proves--somebody has to pick up the slack.
The exception would be a kid with mental health problems whose dearest desire is to go to a top notch prep school and get into an Ivy League or other highly selective university. If it's the kid's dearest ambition, it's probably great for him to reach out to live a normal life despite having some problems to overcome.
Some parents send their kid to a TBS because they're ignorant. Some would have sent their kid even if they knew some other option would be better for the kid. The obvious question there is "Qui bono?"
Clearly, the parents are paying through the nose for their own convenience even though it's suboptimal for their sick kid--because the parents are the only ones benefitting from the arrangement, despite their protests.
So yeah, in my book "The Who" is one selfish SOB.
Considering we have a "troubled teen" as a foster kid, who is still living in her home community, getting the totally voluntary care she needs, and is still seeing quite a lot of her mom (who has severe financial upheaval and is dealing with her own serious mental health problems--loves her daughter very much, right now she's getting the benefit of optimum care living here), yeah, as a matter of fact I do have room to talk.
She financially can't take care of her child right now, and is dealing with far more than mere mental "issues." Parents who can afford $60k/yr or similar to send their kid away have no excuse for not caring for the kid at home.
Correction: If one of the parents was terminally ill or personally in and out of the giggle ward, "Hogwarts" could be a responsible choice.
Convenience of the "Oh, I couldn't take it anymore! You just don't know!" variety? When you knew it's worse for the kid, or still clinging to it after you find out? Cry me a river you selfish bastard.
Julie
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 03:38:43 PM
ASR is not even accredited as a high school, last I heard.
I know someone who went to ASR, and within the past few years.
As a matter of fact, one of her peer group just offed himself.
ASR is a garden variety TBS, and has all the inherent flaws of a substandard treatment. Anyone who can afford ASR is dumping their kid into care that is at best suboptimal, potentially disastrous, for their own mere convenience.
Again, cry me a river you selfish bastard.
Julie
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 03:45:42 PM
Quote
Then why is it that they just shuffle around to another program? If they're so burned out, why jump out of the frying pan into the fire?
Not sure, it is probably because it is what they do best. They may take some time off, relocate to a different climate or part of the country and get a similar job because it ends up paying more than other options or find they get satisfaction from it.
I see this in a lot of professions, for instance welders who get tired of looking at an arc all day. They quit their jobs move away and end up at the same job because thats what they do. Maybe if they could cycle into other jobs (on and off) it may help. We tried this and people seemed to stay longer on average.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 03:45:51 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 03:46:57 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
For those that are new to this and are not familiar with ASR. I think one misconception that goes along with TBS?s is that "the Kid needs to be fixed?. This is hardly ever the case, it is always a family problem and ASR takes the approach of including the entire family, everyone gets a chance to talk things out in a small group. Even siblings come if they are of an appropriate age and want to be involved
when ASR's own website says this........?
http://www.swiftriver.com/student_profile.htm (http://www.swiftriver.com/student_profile.htm)
At the time of admission, however, these are not the descriptors that many would use to characterize them. Instead, they are typically seen as underachieving, impulsive, and oppositional and defiant. Many of our students begin their journey at Swift River possessing a low self-esteem, making poor decisions, lacking a direction in life, and not understanding the negative impact that they are having on their family and friends. Additionally, many of our students have experimented with drugs and/or alcohol, been sexually promiscuous, are acting out at home and in the classroom, and have shown decreasing respect for themselves and others. These students are also making poor choices of peers and have become unresponsive to authority figures.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 03:48:06 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteThen why is it that they just shuffle around to another program? If they're so burned out, why jump out of the frying pan into the fire?
Not sure, it is probably because it is what they do best. They may take some time off, relocate to a different climate or part of the country and get a similar job because it ends up paying more than other options or find they get satisfaction from it.
I see this in a lot of professions, for instance welders who get tired of looking at an arc all day. They quit their jobs move away and end up at the same job because thats what they do. Maybe if they could cycle into other jobs (on and off) it may help. We tried this and people seemed to stay longer on average.
What color is the sky in your world?
Post by: Deborah on January 12, 2007, 03:49:18 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteHey, Who...Was Don Vardell the administrator during your malingering association with ASR? He was at Peninsula Village. Does ASR change administrators as often as PV, like every 1 1/2 years?I don?t recall the name, but many staff names have changed in the past 3 years.
Oh horseshit. You know his name, the infamous Rudy Bentz. Followed by John Powers, then the infamous Vardell. In fact, ASR had 6 Directors in 7 years? And about 3 or 4 different directors of the Addictions program.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 12, 2007, 03:49:36 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 03:52:35 PM
No decent, traditional prep school would ever restrict a kid from receiving non-X-or-R recreational books in the mail, or letters from friends, or simple hobby supplies like a knitting kit.
ASR did.
You think ASR is a prep school? Then you should be able to get me a letter from an admissions counselor at one of Massachusetts several Ivy League schools documenting that they consider ASR one of their "feeder schools." Let me know how that works out for you.
BTW--I used to work in college admissions for one of the top ten public science and engineering post-secondary schools.
I guarantee you we would not have even remotely counted ASR as a prep school. Not even on April Fool's. If ASR had been in Georgia, it would most emphatically not been on our admissions' counselors' list of "high schools" to visit, although one might have been induced to show up out of pity if they were doing charity work---but probably not even then. Their schedules would have been, regretfully, full. Nope, sorry, can't make it.
ASR a traditional prep school? ASR even remotely including what even remotely approaches a traditional prep school? If it weren't so tragically sad that you delude yourself into thinking so I'd be rolling on the floor laughing my ass off.
Julie
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 03:54:35 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteHey, Who...Was Don Vardell the administrator during your malingering association with ASR? He was at Peninsula Village. Does ASR change administrators as often as PV, like every 1 1/2 years?I don?t recall the name, but many staff names have changed in the past 3 years.
Oh horseshit. You know his name, the infamous Rudy Bentz. Followed by John Powers, then the infamous Vardell. In fact, ASR had 6 Directors in 7 years? And about 3 or 4 different directors of the Addictions program.
I dont remember Vardell. John Powers was Dean of Academics when my daughter went there, I remember him and Rudy Bentz.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 03:55:43 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I dont remember Vardell. John Powers was Dean of Academics when my daughter went there, I remember him and Rudy Bentz.
Just forgot to mention Rudy, huh? Riiiiiiiight. :roll:
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 03:56:50 PM
I think you may be in the wrong thread, I dont think anyone here said ASR was a traditional boarding school or a Prep school.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 03:58:32 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""I dont remember Vardell. John Powers was Dean of Academics when my daughter went there, I remember him and Rudy Bentz.
Just forgot to mention Rudy, huh? Riiiiiiiight. :roll:
This is funny, look at the question. No one asked if I knew John Powers or Rudy.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 04:00:43 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""TheWho""I dont remember Vardell. John Powers was Dean of Academics when my daughter went there, I remember him and Rudy Bentz.
Just forgot to mention Rudy, huh? Riiiiiiiight. :roll:
This is funny, look at the question. No one asked if I knew John Powers or Rudy.
No, but they were asking about staff and the turnover. You're well aware of Rudy's reputation so you avoided using his name.
IMO ::fuckoff::
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 04:06:17 PM
I was asked if I knew Don Vardell the administrator?? he was at Peninsula Village?? etc.
I said no I don?t recall the name but many people have left since I was there.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 04:07:14 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Julie ,
I think you may be in the wrong thread, I dont think anyone here said ASR was a traditional boarding school or a Prep school.
That's how you've been presenting it all along. With just a smidge of, *cough, cough*, "emotional growth". :roll:
What was it that made you feel that you couldn't handle your daughter being at home?
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 04:09:37 PM
I didn't make admissions decisions, I wasn't an admissions counselor, but I wrote the reports that pulled the lists which meant acceptance, so I was intimately familiar with the criteria applied each year for the four years I worked there.
Undergraduate admissions also included marketing and recruiting to and of those new prospective students each term, and so forth.
My work over four years made me intimately familiar with all aspects of the process by which a selective university puts together each new freshman class. That includes the shop talk about how the M&R and admissions procedures and priorities at other schools both higher and lower on the food chain differed from ours. Including Ivy League, as I interacted a lot on the job with my boss's boss, who graduated from Harvard.
ASR a traditional prep school? ASR even remotely in the same league as a traditional prep school? ASR even in the farm team minor leagues among the traditional prep schools?
Not even close.
The closest ASR comes to a traditional prep school is the mileage statistic from MapQuest about how far they are from the nearest real one.
The only thing ASR has in common with a real New England traditional prep school is being in New England and having teenagers in it.
I suppose having high school, even unaccredited, is another similarity, barely. Given the number of accredited high schools in Massachusetts, that hardly amounts to a nodding acquaintance.
Again, laughable if it weren't so tragic that some idiots actually believe it.
Julie
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 04:14:30 PM
I refer to ASR as aTBS. Not a college, not a hghschool or summer camp, not a prep school. TBS
You are cutting and pasting to the wrong thread, there are probably other people on a different thread waiting for your response.
never mind.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 04:19:18 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteAny therapist or psychiatrist who doesn't have, "First, do no harm," as priority one of their ethics is a dangerous quack.
Thanks Julie, thats why we were recommended and chose ASR.
Somehow, I don't think she meant that as an attaboy towards you.
Given that this reply of yours was in a series where I talked about the possible acceptability of a real prep school with good counseling services, and the general way you've presented ASR in the past, I thought the clarification of ASR's actual position on the educational quality scale apropos.
Additionally, ASR itself, like a lot of TBS's, seems to me to go to an awful lot of trouble to make itself look like a prep school that just offers some extra services to a special niche of clientele.
Not even close.
Julie
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 04:20:10 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 04:22:13 PM
Post by: ZenAgent on January 12, 2007, 04:22:17 PM
Stress...well, if you mean the kind of stress Clarke Poole was going through, I can understand.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 04:23:15 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Given that this reply of yours was in a series where I talked about the possible acceptability of a real prep school with good counseling services, and the general way you've presented ASR in the past, I thought the clarification of ASR's actual position on the educational quality scale apropos.
Julie
Me too.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 04:31:24 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Sorry to worry the issue, but your excuses for the quick shifting of staff don't make sense. Such a short time at a facility can't widen the experience much.
Stress...well, if you mean the kind of stress Clarke Poole was going through, I can understand.
Not making excuses, they were just my thoughts on the subject. I dont think anyone knows for sure over all, maybe on a case by case bases it could be examined and then try to draw conclusions based the results of many.
The welding staff I was talking about has a large turnover rate, each persons excuse for leaving is a little different, but personally think it is just the nature of the job
Post by: Deborah on January 12, 2007, 04:32:34 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Does anyone know if ASR is sufficiently licensed to be a 'therapeutic school'?
:rofl: They are not.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 04:33:41 PM
You're a selfish, sad individual who is desperately trying to masquerade as a decent human being, in this case by trying to convince others to do the same rotten, selfish thing you did.
Parents should get appropriate care for their kids when their kids get sick, or therapy if their kids need it.
Parents should not dump their especially vulnerable kids off in a facility that is a bad choice just because it's a pain in the ass to personally care for and raise a needy kid.
You're as bad as the Lexus parents who work seventy plus hours a week and dump their kids off on a succession of au pairs and nannies.
Or the pet owners who dump their pregnant dog off at the pound so they don't have to deal with the litter.
You did a rotten thing. Everybody does something rotten sometime. But instead of owning up and taking responsibility, you keep frantically trying to justify what you did. No wonder your poor kid had problems.
Julie
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 04:34:00 PM
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=15 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=15260&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15)
Quote
When I was there:
1) No, kids were NOT restrained
2) I do not have the knowledge to answer this question
3) Yes, they did. There were, if I remember correctly, 4 levels.
4) Phone calls were once a week with the amount of time increasing as you progressed in the program. Until the end of the program you could not make phone calls without staff in the room.
There were 2 home visits and one hotel visit. I don't know that the hotel visit was a right. Unless you were dropped peer groups you were able to go on home visits as scheduled.
5) Campus visits were basically limited to ones that were scheduled (family resolutions). Parents were STRONGLY discouraged from coming and it was a big no-no for a kid to ask their parents to come.
I remember a mom came to drop off some things for her child and later the girl was told it was "not right" that her mom had come.
Quote
1) The education program was poor. We did not even have a full set of encyclopedias. Some of the teachers were good, others did not seem qualified to teach the subjects they were.
2) I'm not sure what "anyone" means but essentially, yes. They definitely took kids that they did not have the means to treat. (for example, eating disorders)
3) If someone was on medication (and a lot of kids were) you saw an individual doctor. You also have therapy within your group and then once a week in a mixed group with kids from many other "peer groups". There were special groups and "life steps". Lots of crying, yelling, etc. Some of the things that went on in group I believe was wrong.
Quote
1) If someone refused to talk in group they would often be placed on a Reflection, the lightest of the consequences. You would receive a folder with a "truth list" and writing assignments to do things like "Why I feel I don't have to talk in group".
2) Bans were used to prohibit relationships being formed that the school thought to be "unhealthy". Bans included simply looking at another person. Bans could span from one person, one sex, a portion of the school (ie lower school), or the entire school.
3) I'm sure that some did, however you could not move forward in the program without doing so, so I think that most kids gave in and did it.
Quote
Sorry, forgot the last. I believe your counselors approved level changes, you had to be in a certain stage of the program to move on. Some people never made it to the highest level, which allowed you to stay up til 11 and watch approved TV in the great room after everyone else had to go to sleep. It basically meant that you were "trusted"
Quote
1) Peer groups were a group of about 15 kids who you went through the entire program with, from base camp to costa rica. You had group therapy together, sat together during all meetings and did "life steps" together.
2) I don't know if anyone ever got their phone call completely taken away. I got my right to "private" phone calls (a counselor was always in the room monitoring anyway) taken away. I had to have conference calls for a few weeks.
3) All mail was screened. Only approved friends could write, and they could only begin sending you mail after you were pretty far into the program. All mail was opened, read and searched.If a counselor thought something was innapropriate you did't get the mail.
Quote
I am not sure if it is entirely different from what you know.
1) I think everyone to some extent lied to get out of the program. Some people went through the program having done drugs, had sex, etc but would never admit to it and were never caught. You learned to be compliant and really just to say whatever they wanted you to.
2) Two counselors (either your assigned peer group counselors or, when in mixed group, other peer group's counselors). If someone was in a lot of trouble they would bring in the "big guns", I forget their titles but I think some where directors.
3) I saw a psychologist about every 2 weeks or so. Summaries of these sessions where sent to parents. Some things I NEVER would have wanted my parents to know or hear about were included in these reports.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 04:38:47 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Your sick kid ("sick" being either real or perceived by you) got inconvenient so you dumped the kid off at "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" and even if you didn't know in the past that it was statistically worse for the kid than care in the community or, if the kid really was sick, worse than appropriate treatment options, you have no excuse for not knowing now.
You're a selfish, sad individual who is desperately trying to masquerade as a decent human being, in this case by trying to convince others to do the same rotten, selfish thing you did.
Parents should get appropriate care for their kids when their kids get sick, or therapy if their kids need it.
Parents should not dump their especially vulnerable kids off in a facility that is a bad choice just because it's a pain in the ass to personally care for and raise a needy kid.
You're as bad as the Lexus parents who work seventy plus hours a week and dump their kids off on a succession of au pairs and nannies.
Or the pet owners who dump their pregnant dog off at the pound so they don't have to deal with the litter.
You did a rotten thing. Everybody does something rotten sometime. But instead of owning up and taking responsibility, you keep frantically trying to justify what you did. No wonder your poor kid had problems.
Julie
Well if you think I did a rotten thing I am sorry for you, but we are doing very fine as a family and for some reason that seems to bother you and it lowers your quality of life.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 04:40:56 PM
Quote
Well actually, a while back in the big ASR thread that turned out into an all out war, I posted a few times.
I was so confused when I came out I really can't tell you. There were times that I would get really angry about it and others when the "ASR brain wash effect" came out.
I became interested again because I've recently come across people who I went to ASR with. (only one of whom seems to be doing ok)
Quote
QuoteThree Springs Waygookin wrote:
1) Attempts at suicide were viewed as manipulation?
2) What would happen after an attempted suicide was discovered?
1) Usually, yes.And they told you that very matter-of-factly.
The same goes for self-mutilation. I understand that SI can be used as manipulation but it does not excuse them brushing it off. They told me that I was using cutting as manipulation...
1)seeing that I had hid it from them for months even though i was body searched several times.
2) and only came forward when my roommate saw when I got out of the shower
I don't think it was. At all. I can honestly say that when I was younger pre-ASR there were times when I did use hurting myself to hurt other people, but I grew out of this pretty quickly and what I did at ASR had nothing to do with getting back at anyone.
2) In one case she was taken to the hospital for stitches and then brought back. I was her escort the next morning when she had to go back into the dorm. I'm pretty sure she was placed on a self-study. (the most severe consequence)
In another a counselor told us about a time he walked in on someone about to hang themselves with a belt. He said [something to the effect of] that he didn't place the kid on a self study because it was obvious he was hurting enough.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 04:41:47 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 04:42:44 PM
Quote
Then you should be able to get me a letter from an admissions counselor at one of Massachusetts several Ivy League schools documenting that they consider ASR one of their "feeder schools."
uh What are the several Ivy League schools in Mass? Seems to me it's just Haaavahdd.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 04:47:51 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
QuoteThen you should be able to get me a letter from an admissions counselor at one of Massachusetts several Ivy League schools documenting that they consider ASR one of their "feeder schools."
uh What are the several Ivy League schools in Mass? Seems to me it's just Haaavahdd.
Go paaaak y'caaaa in Haaavahrd Yaaaad.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 12, 2007, 04:49:11 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""Sorry to worry the issue, but your excuses for the quick shifting of staff don't make sense. Such a short time at a facility can't widen the experience much.
Stress...well, if you mean the kind of stress Clarke Poole was going through, I can understand.
Not making excuses, they were just my thoughts on the subject. I dont think anyone knows for sure over all, maybe on a case by case bases it could be examined and then try to draw conclusions based the results of many.
The welding staff I was talking about has a large turnover rate, each persons excuse for leaving is a little different, but personally think it is just the nature of the job
No business looks for unstable past employment, especially at the administration level. Is it possible these people are incompetent, because Vardell's career goes downhill, even more...Maybe these guys are turds spiraling their way down to the pipe, ASR being close to the bottom.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 04:59:44 PM
Some seem to be Embellished war stories or questionable remembrances.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 05:02:01 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""ZenAgent""Sorry to worry the issue, but your excuses for the quick shifting of staff don't make sense. Such a short time at a facility can't widen the experience much.
Stress...well, if you mean the kind of stress Clarke Poole was going through, I can understand.
Not making excuses, they were just my thoughts on the subject. I dont think anyone knows for sure over all, maybe on a case by case bases it could be examined and then try to draw conclusions based the results of many.
The welding staff I was talking about has a large turnover rate, each persons excuse for leaving is a little different, but personally think it is just the nature of the job
No business looks for unstable past employment, especially at the administration level. Is it possible these people are incompetent, because Vardell's career goes downhill, even more...Maybe these guys are turds spiraling their way down to the pipe, ASR being close to the bottom.
Sure they do, depending on what they are willing to pay. I wouldnt call them unstable because they are switching jobs. The new people hiring know the industry also and are replacing people themselves.
Post by: Deborah on January 12, 2007, 05:06:06 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Deborah""Who,
Did you participate in the survey?
Is your daughter considered on of Aspen's successes?
No I dont think so. I filled out a follow-up of some sort but it was short, not much feedback was asked for, so I dont think it was a survey.
I dont know if she is considered one of their successes or not. We had a show contact us and asked if we would be interested in being interviewed. But we didnt do it.
Oh that's right. She was in the 98% who fail, and go back to drugs, then moved away and didn't speak to you for two years.
But, hey, she did catch up academically, which please you, but then never went to college.
That does sound like the typical success story.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 05:10:55 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Deborah""Who,
Did you participate in the survey?
Is your daughter considered on of Aspen's successes?
No I dont think so. I filled out a follow-up of some sort but it was short, not much feedback was asked for, so I dont think it was a survey.
I dont know if she is considered one of their successes or not. We had a show contact us and asked if we would be interested in being interviewed. But we didnt do it.
Oh that's right. She was in the 98% who fail, and go back to drugs, then moved away and didn't speak to you for two years.
But, hey, she did catch up academically, which please you, but then never went to college.
That does sound like the typical success story.
Let's just stop replying to him for a while. Try it & see how you like it. Silence doesn't necessarily implicate being WRONG or anything... "Being convinced I seek not to convince." E.A.P.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 05:13:12 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Deborah""Who,
Did you participate in the survey?
Is your daughter considered on of Aspen's successes?
No I dont think so. I filled out a follow-up of some sort but it was short, not much feedback was asked for, so I dont think it was a survey.
I dont know if she is considered one of their successes or not. We had a show contact us and asked if we would be interested in being interviewed. But we didnt do it.
Oh that's right. She was in the 98% who fail, and go back to drugs, then moved away and didn't speak to you for two years.
But, hey, she did catch up academically, which please you, but then never went to college.
That does sound like the typical success story.
Hmm... not sure where that is coming from or means. I think that you asked me if I filled out a survey or not. Guess I should have stuck to "No"
Post by: Deborah on January 12, 2007, 05:13:17 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Anne, Not too far off the mark (your first post)! It appears to be an older account based on some of the bans and reflections. They don?t use the term peer groups anymore. Parents are welcome to come to visit, they can issue high school degrees I have been told. They have added 2 or 3 more buildings since then a gym, swimming pool, new dorm I believe. The school went thru some major growing pains and they have really grown over the years. They are strict, but not abusive. Kids are happy for the most part there.
Some seem to be Embellished war stories or questionable remembrances.
Wow, you know all this, but not the Directors' names?
What keeps you attached to ASR? Most parents 'move on'.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 05:18:20 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Anne, Not too far off the mark (your first post)! It appears to be an older account based on some of the bans and reflections. They don?t use the term peer groups anymore.
I don't give a shit what they call it. It's the same fucking thing I went through and it IS abusive.
Quote
Parents are welcome to come to visit, they can issue high school degrees I have been told. They have added 2 or 3 more buildings since then a gym, swimming pool, new dorm I believe.
Well god I would HOPE so with the kind of dough they're raking in, but that's not what seems to be happening.
Quote
The school went thru some major growing pains and they have really grown over the years. They are strict, but not abusive. Kids are happy for the most part there.
Some seem to be Embellished war stories or questionable remembrances.
Yeah, we know. Disgruntled, manipulative kids. Just like the cutters and suicidals are thought of at ASR :roll: We need to come up witha run-together for this crap, like deadinsaneorinjail.
The LifeSteps (LGATs) are ineffective, dangerous and damaging. It's practicing psychology without a license. The bans and reflections (sitting facing a wall for hours on end) are abusive. Wrist holds are abusive. Monitored phone calls with parents is an abuse of power. The disregard for patient confidentiality when disclosing things kids said in session to parents is an abuse of power and unethical.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 05:18:24 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Anne, Not too far off the mark (your first post)! It appears to be an older account based on some of the bans and reflections. They don?t use the term peer groups anymore. Parents are welcome to come to visit, they can issue high school degrees I have been told. They have added 2 or 3 more buildings since then a gym, swimming pool, new dorm I believe. The school went thru some major growing pains and they have really grown over the years. They are strict, but not abusive. Kids are happy for the most part there.
Some seem to be Embellished war stories or questionable remembrances.
Wow, you know all this, but not the Directors' names?
What keeps you attached to ASR? Most parents 'move on'.
I tell ya, I am awful with names.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 05:21:17 PM
Quote from: ""Toker""
Let's just stop replying to him for a while. Try it & see how you like it. Silence doesn't necessarily implicate being WRONG or anything... "Being convinced I seek not to convince." E.A.P.
I will pretty soon, but I've got 2 psych students standing over my shoulder right now and they won't let me yet. They say it's like watching a car wreck. They're avid Myspacers and when they get back to college they're going to start talking about this with the other kids. They can't believe this shit really goes on.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 12, 2007, 05:22:16 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
No business looks for unstable past employment, especially at the administration level. Is it possible these people are incompetent, because Vardell's career goes downhill, even more...Maybe these guys are turds spiraling their way down to the pipe, ASR being close to the bottom.
Quote
Sure they do, depending on what they are willing to pay. I wouldnt call them unstable because they are switching jobs. The new people hiring know the industry also and are replacing people themselves.
As a parent, it sets off a warning telling me all is not right within the organization...how can the program be efficient?
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 05:28:14 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Anne, Not too far off the mark (your first post)! It appears to be an older account based on some of the bans and reflections. They don?t use the term peer groups anymore.
I don't give a shit what they call it. It's the same fucking thing I went through and it IS abusive.QuoteParents are welcome to come to visit, they can issue high school degrees I have been told. They have added 2 or 3 more buildings since then a gym, swimming pool, new dorm I believe.
Well god I would HOPE so with the kind of dough they're raking in, but that's not what seems to be happening.
QuoteThe school went thru some major growing pains and they have really grown over the years. They are strict, but not abusive. Kids are happy for the most part there.
Some seem to be Embellished war stories or questionable remembrances.
Yeah, we know. Disgruntled, manipulative kids. Just like the cutters and suicidals are thought of at ASR :roll: We need to come up witha run-together for this crap, like deadinsaneorinjail.
The LifeSteps (LGATs) are ineffective, dangerous and damaging. It's practicing psychology without a license. The bans and reflections (sitting facing a wall for hours on end) are abusive. Wrist holds are abusive. Monitored phone calls with parents is an abuse of power. The disregard for patient confidentiality when disclosing things kids said in session to parents is an abuse of power and unethical.
If all of what you said is true I would agree. But they dont disclose patient confidentiality. They dont practice psychology without a license. They dont face walls for hours, Counselors dont catch the kids hanging themselves in closets. They make calls in a big room with the counselors there. They dont use any illegal holds. Anyone can spin a story to make it seem worse than it is. I am not saying it is all right or wrong.......
If 4 kids came out of Harvard and said the teachers catch students in the closets trying to hang themselves or make students stand in front of walls for hours, would we all rush to shut the institution down? no. These are kids and we need to listen to their stories and take them seriously but we have to remember they are kids.
Post by: Oz girl on January 12, 2007, 05:30:37 PM
What specificaly is the therapeudic benefit of "bans" in the case of a wholesome friendship?
If mary Ellen was as bad a drug addict and anorexic as Dave marcus suggested how is Wilderness not at the very least risking doing physical harm?
Dave marcus suggested that some kids hear songs from the workshops years later and still cry. Do you think that this means that the school helped or harmed?
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 05:31:40 PM
And that's not the reason I come to Fornits.
When I (rarely) log on here, it's because this is the most consistent clearing house I've found for news in the private prisons for teens scandal.
The Who is obviously a bad parent, but I'm not here because of him or to get my jollies telling off bad parents.
I'd rather live my life.
So to those of you who have been reading my rants, I apologize for succumbing to the temptation yet again, and we now return you to your regularly scheduled whatever-it-is.
Julie
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 05:36:27 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
No business looks for unstable past employment, especially at the administration level. Is it possible these people are incompetent, because Vardell's career goes downhill, even more...Maybe these guys are turds spiraling their way down to the pipe, ASR being close to the bottom.QuoteSure they do, depending on what they are willing to pay. I wouldnt call them unstable because they are switching jobs. The new people hiring know the industry also and are replacing people themselves.
As a parent, it sets off a warning telling me all is not right within the organization...how can the program be efficient?
Its not efficient!! They are in constant training, which drives up the costs. Doctors that work in some tough Psyc wards can go thru the same fatigue and are rotated out. As I mention, our welders coming and going. It is an industry wide problem, which requires constant monitoring and training. It?s a challenge but not cost effective.
If you had any suggestions I would like to hear them. I could pass them along to our welding group.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 05:44:17 PM
Yep, you ARE an idiot.
Hope that daughter of yours is miles, and miles and miles away from your stupid butt.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 05:44:58 PM
I am so confused, does that mean my kids will be good parents or bad parents?
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 05:53:48 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
THE WHO you are an idiot. Your little Harvard analogy just might be one of the most stupid things you have everr posted.
Yep, you ARE an idiot.
Hope that daughter of yours is miles, and miles and miles away from your stupid butt.
No its not, ask Niles. A year or so ago I had some pretty bad analogies. There was this discussion about isolation and I was trying to compare isolation to the witness protection program (to try to make a point of some type). Not sure what I was thinking at the time but it was really a stretch in retrospect.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 05:54:42 PM
Quote
These are kids and we need to listen to their stories and take them seriously but we have to remember they are kids.
Why does no one else pick up on these? The man's sadism and wish to belittle is unbelievable, almost self-parodic.
They are kids, and one of the basic principles of morality is that you do not do this shit to kids.
Post by: Ganja on January 12, 2007, 05:56:51 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
I will pretty soon, but I've got 2 psych students standing over my shoulder right now and they won't let me yet. They say it's like watching a car wreck. They're avid Myspacers and when they get back to college they're going to start talking about this with the other kids. They can't believe this shit really goes on.
Well tell them I said hello! :P
Post by: Ganja on January 12, 2007, 06:00:50 PM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
you know who you never did get around to answering my questions.
Big surprise there. :rofl:
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 06:03:38 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
QuoteThese are kids and we need to listen to their stories and take them seriously but we have to remember they are kids.
Why does no one else pick up on these? The man's sadism and wish to belittle is unbelievable, almost self-parodic.
They are kids, and one of the basic principles of morality is that you do not do this shit to kids.
We are not talking about doing anything to kids. We are talking about stories that kids tell. We need to be able to decipher fact from embellishment. Some kids don?t have the skill to differentiate. As responsible parents we need to do that for them.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 06:06:45 PM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
you know who you never did get around to answering my questions.
What specificaly is the therapeudic benefit of "bans" in the case of a wholesome friendship?
If mary Ellen was as bad a drug addict and anorexic as Dave marcus suggested how is Wilderness not at the very least risking doing physical harm?
Dave marcus suggested that some kids hear songs from the workshops years later and still cry. Do you think that this means that the school helped or harmed?
I am sorry didnt respond earlier, I really dont know how to answer that, I am not a professional in the field and I dont have an opinion right now.
Post by: Ganja on January 12, 2007, 06:07:05 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""QuoteThese are kids and we need to listen to their stories and take them seriously but we have to remember they are kids.
Why does no one else pick up on these? The man's sadism and wish to belittle is unbelievable, almost self-parodic.
They are kids, and one of the basic principles of morality is that you do not do this shit to kids.
We are not talking about doing anything to kids. We are talking about stories that kids tell. We need to be able to decipher fact from embellishment. Some kids don?t have the skill to differentiate. As responsible parents we need to do that for them.
Who, step away from yoyur keyboard and go get yourself a copy of that Live at Leeds deluxe edition that Toker was telling you about. It'll do you good. While you're at it, consider picking up some of your favorite hooch or scoring some weed, if you know who (no pun) has some.
Do yourself (and the rest of us) a favor & take a break from these forums.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 06:09:14 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Who, step away from yoyur keyboard and go get yourself a copy of that Live at Leeds deluxe edition that Toker was telling you about. It'll do you good. While you're at it, consider picking up some of your favorite hooch or scoring some weed, if you know who (no pun) has some.Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""QuoteThese are kids and we need to listen to their stories and take them seriously but we have to remember they are kids.
Why does no one else pick up on these? The man's sadism and wish to belittle is unbelievable, almost self-parodic.
They are kids, and one of the basic principles of morality is that you do not do this shit to kids.
We are not talking about doing anything to kids. We are talking about stories that kids tell. We need to be able to decipher fact from embellishment. Some kids don?t have the skill to differentiate. As responsible parents we need to do that for them.
Do yourself (and the rest of us) a favor & take a break from these forums.
Thanks Ganja, Best suggestion all night, see everyone later....
Post by: Deborah on January 12, 2007, 06:33:04 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Deborah""Who,
Did you participate in the survey?
Is your daughter considered on of Aspen's successes?
No I dont think so. I filled out a follow-up of some sort but it was short, not much feedback was asked for, so I dont think it was a survey.
I dont know if she is considered one of their successes or not. We had a show contact us and asked if we would be interested in being interviewed. But we didnt do it.
Oh that's right. She was in the 98% who fail, and go back to drugs, then moved away and didn't speak to you for two years.
But, hey, she did catch up academically, which please you, but then never went to college.
That does sound like the typical success story.
Hmm... not sure where that is coming from or means. I think that you asked me if I filled out a survey or not. Guess I should have stuck to "No"
Mmmm. Got it from you
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... ter#163947 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=163947&highlight=daughter#163947)
But anyway my daughter would fall into your 98% who go back to drugs (statistically) but long term the kids that finish at ASR do much better. Academically she was way ahead when she returned
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... &start=435 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=daughter&start=435)
There basically isnt any and she regressed like a slingshot as soon as she got home and wanted to experience everything she missed. I.e. smoked cigarettes, smoked pot., drank, stay out late etc. but after a few weeks she realized there were things she wanted to do with her life and started to move on. She still drinks and smokes pot etc, but in moderation.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... ter#160456 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=160456&highlight=daughter#160456)
Exactly what happened. My daughter moved to NYC and I only heard from her once in 2 years, still never went to school.
Post by: Ganja on January 12, 2007, 06:37:37 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Deborah""Who,
Did you participate in the survey?
Is your daughter considered on of Aspen's successes?
No I dont think so. I filled out a follow-up of some sort but it was short, not much feedback was asked for, so I dont think it was a survey.
I dont know if she is considered one of their successes or not. We had a show contact us and asked if we would be interested in being interviewed. But we didnt do it.
Oh that's right. She was in the 98% who fail, and go back to drugs, then moved away and didn't speak to you for two years.
But, hey, she did catch up academically, which please you, but then never went to college.
That does sound like the typical success story.
Hmm... not sure where that is coming from or means. I think that you asked me if I filled out a survey or not. Guess I should have stuck to "No"
Mmmm. Got it from you
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... ter#163947 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=163947&highlight=daughter#163947)
But anyway my daughter would fall into your 98% who go back to drugs (statistically) but long term the kids that finish at ASR do much better. Academically she was way ahead when she returned
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... &start=435 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=daughter&start=435)
There basically isnt any and she regressed like a slingshot as soon as she got home and wanted to experience everything she missed. I.e. smoked cigarettes, smoked pot., drank, stay out late etc. but after a few weeks she realized there were things she wanted to do with her life and started to move on. She still drinks and smokes pot etc, but in moderation.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... ter#160456 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=160456&highlight=daughter#160456)
Exactly what happened. My daughter moved to NYC and I only heard from her once in 2 years, still never went to school.
Who... I sure hope you did in fact take my advice & you're out right now purchasing that deluxe CD edition of The Who's "Live at Leeds" as indicated. After all, you did say that my suggestion was the best suggestion all night. I hope you get high and/or drunk on something while listening to it too.
Post by: Deborah on January 12, 2007, 06:41:03 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Okay , I?ll go back for you (one more post):
I was asked if I knew Don Vardell the administrator?? he was at Peninsula Village?? etc.
I said no I don?t recall the name but many people have left since I was there.
Is he #6, still there? Or have they replaced him too, in their quest to spin change and 'improvement'?
Post by: Deborah on January 12, 2007, 06:43:21 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""THE WHO you are an idiot. Your little Harvard analogy just might be one of the most stupid things you have everr posted.
Yep, you ARE an idiot.
Hope that daughter of yours is miles, and miles and miles away from your stupid butt.
No its not, ask Niles. A year or so ago I had some pretty bad analogies. There was this discussion about isolation and I was trying to compare isolation to the witness protection program (to try to make a point of some type). Not sure what I was thinking at the time but it was really a stretch in retrospect.
Niles, regardless of what you think I mean. I truly believe the ?Isolation? that is used by ASR is a very good thing. Could it be improved, yes. But the isolation and insulation from any outside influences are very important, especially at the beginning. As time goes on the restrictions ease up and then eventually you go home.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... &start=435 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=daughter&start=435)
Is your daughter still in NY? Has she spoken to you yet?
Post by: Ganja on January 12, 2007, 06:44:04 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Okay , I?ll go back for you (one more post):
I was asked if I knew Don Vardell the administrator?? he was at Peninsula Village?? etc.
I said no I don?t recall the name but many people have left since I was there.
Is he #6, still there? Or have they replaced him too, in their quest to spin change and 'improvement'?
Who, you promised. You are to ignore these posts until you've listened to that album in its entirety. It's in your best interest! :lol:
Seriously, I don't want to hear from you until you're telling me what a great fucking album Live at Leeds is and how much fun you (hopefully) had while tying one on or smoking something nice & sticky. :smokin:
Godspeed!
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 06:58:47 PM
The Who writes:
ASR is what the grduates and parents say it is and as long as people are spending money it must have value.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 07:02:08 PM
Quote
My daughter Finished at ASR and within a week went back to her old friends , drank and smoked. After a couple of weekends she stayed home and said "My friends just sit around, smoke and drink. They dont want to do anything or talk about anything but getting high". I smiled and thought to myself "That was you 16 months ago."
She went on to get a job gradually met new friends and is doing well.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 07:07:32 PM
Quote
QuoteAntigen wrote:
So, to my mind, a good program must be voluntary. Not just nominally, but in spirit and execution, absolutely vonuntary to the participant. Not just that they have the practical ability to leave if they choose to or not go in the first place, but that they have the practical ability to reject the teachings or ideology presented thereQuoteThe Who wrote:Oh Come-on Antigen You must have forgotten what its like to raise a teen !! What teen will go voluntarily or stay anyplace that doesnt allow them complete access to their cell phone, e-mail or Game cube? This would be deprivation!!
Post by: Ganja on January 12, 2007, 07:10:43 PM
Post by: Deborah on January 12, 2007, 07:12:56 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteHey, Who...Was Don Vardell the administrator during your malingering association with ASR? He was at Peninsula Village. Does ASR change administrators as often as PV, like every 1 1/2 years?I don?t recall the name, but many staff names have changed in the past 3 years.
Oh horseshit. You know his name, the infamous Rudy Bentz. Followed by John Powers, then the infamous Vardell. In fact, ASR had 6 Directors in 7 years? And about 3 or 4 different directors of the Addictions program.
I dont remember Vardell. John Powers was Dean of Academics when my daughter went there, I remember him and Rudy Bentz.
Sweetie, are you having memory failure, or are you the best damn troll to ever hit Fornits. Did you even have a daughter in ASR?
Powers (Exec Dir- new term) was the Director when your daughter was there. When they fired HeadMaster Bentz, who you said you liked, and before they hired Alan Russell and promoted Powers to Reg Dir of Eastern Residential Schools and Programs. Ten months later, Vardell replaces Russell.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... heard.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2003/9/sep03seennheard.html)
Post by: Ganja on January 12, 2007, 07:16:31 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteHey, Who...Was Don Vardell the administrator during your malingering association with ASR? He was at Peninsula Village. Does ASR change administrators as often as PV, like every 1 1/2 years?I don?t recall the name, but many staff names have changed in the past 3 years.
Oh horseshit. You know his name, the infamous Rudy Bentz. Followed by John Powers, then the infamous Vardell. In fact, ASR had 6 Directors in 7 years? And about 3 or 4 different directors of the Addictions program.
I dont remember Vardell. John Powers was Dean of Academics when my daughter went there, I remember him and Rudy Bentz.
Sweetie, are you having memory failure, or are you the best damn troll to ever hit Fornits. Did you even have a daughter in ASR?
Powers (Exec Dir- new term) was the Director when your daughter was there. When they fired HeadMaster Bentz, who you said you liked, and before they hired Alan Russell and promoted Powers to Reg Dir of Eastern Residential Schools and Programs. Ten months later, Vardell replaces Russell.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... heard.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2003/9/sep03seennheard.html)
Forget it for a bit, Who. I've got disk 2 on right now!!!
Post by: Ganja on January 12, 2007, 07:19:04 PM
Surely there MUST be something better to do than to refute this mofos nonsense all the damn time.
Go pet your dog, take your kids somewhere...
Watch a movie, curl up with a good book, get laid, listen to a CD that you've been wanting to listen to....
Something... Anything... :rofl:
Post by: Deborah on January 12, 2007, 07:26:15 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteTraditional, regular, no therapy boarding school....might suck, but not abusive. TBS that uses LGAT and confrontational tactics (ASR)? AbusiveWell we are getting closer, I?ll accept that for now. As people come to see that ASR is not abusive, this will be a short divide to overcome.
Does ASR use LGAT or confrontational type therapy sessions or not? Simple question, requiring a simple yes or no answer.
No they dont, at least when my daughter was there.
http://www.swiftriver.com/personal_growth.htm (http://www.swiftriver.com/personal_growth.htm)
The Academy at Swift River is a 16-19 month long program with an average length of stay of 16 months.....(shortened for brevity)
TheWho wrote:
Quote
LGAT without Behavior Modification, the whole point is to changes ones view or behavior. Although I am not sure how to define "Large Group" our group was approx. 18-24 people. I think the key is awareness. It is really not a bad thing to become aware. The behavior mod portion is there to drive the message home, through positive reenforcement typically (with parents) as any seminar would. The BM needs to be there if you want to be successful in selling anything.
Another person wrote:
Quote
Large Group Awareness Training or LGAT is a mechanism for promoting awareness change and rapid, thorough commitment to a cause or idea. LGATs tend to be brief but intense sessions of a few hours or days in which, ideally, participants adopt the message of the 'training' promptly and enthusiastically.
TheWho's response:
Quote
They use this in every corporation in America, how many companies want to train people over a period of 6 months to a year, they would go broke.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... nar#159394 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=159394&highlight=seminar#159394)
Post by: Deborah on January 12, 2007, 07:38:36 PM
You havin a hard time with Who getting grilled, or 'spanked' as it were? Or just bored? Is Who a friend of your's?
Would you prefer we discuss cars, pot, drinkin... somethin real productive.
Don't mean to be rude, just don't understand your insistence that this thread end. Talk to Ginger, see if she'll close it.
Post by: Ganja on January 12, 2007, 07:41:10 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Ganja,
You havin a hard time with Who getting grilled, or 'spanked' as it were? Or just bored? Is Who a friend of your's?
Would you prefer we discuss cars, pot, drinkin... somethin real productive.
Don't mean to be rude, just don't understand your insistence that this thread end. Talk to Ginger, see if she'll close it.
The answer to your question has already been clearly stated and I don't particularly care for your insinuations; totally uncalled for.
I would like to see Who and the rest of you do something else with their time for a while; that is all.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 07:48:43 PM
Goodtobefree wrote:
Quote
Perhaps as a former student/client/survivor/inmate/whatever you want to call it, I can shed some light on the subject. I was in peer group 17, I was at ASR from October of 2000 to December of 2001. During my stay I was under the impression that the lifesteps were essentially unchanged from the start of the program up until then. I can't say anything about 2002 and onward. As was said before, they were about anger, insecurities, reconnecting with core self, (aka inner child) and forgiveness. They were held in the library in the academic building, and generally started around mid evening on a friday or saturday night, and lasted between 12 and 24 hours. Hard to tell exactly because they made a policy of taking our watches beforehand. All I know was that at the latest, we were asleep in our beds by the normal lights out the next night, except for the 4th lifestep, where we slept in tents overnight outside the library. That was about 36 hours altogether.
They definitely fed us, slightly less than usual, but more than adequate for a day's nutrition. As for sleep deprivation, we were up way past our bedtimes, which were tightly regulated, so any alterations to the routine were quite noticeable. While we were up late, full of anxiety and stress, we were subjected to a lot of yelling, a lot of exercises and workshops designed to illustrate how our behaviors were hurting us. There was a lot of crying, screaming, cursing, quiet time for writing, (read: kids can't talk, counselors walk around reading what's being written and pontificating about the topics being written about. My point is that it was very intense and quite overwhelming. I don't remember every single detail of the experiences, but I will try to include what I can.
The most memorable thing about the first lifestep was an exercise called dyads. This involved pairing up with a buddy and holding them while screaming at the top of our lungs all the things we hated our parents and ourselves for, for minutes at a time. I distinctly remember spitting up blood and being encouraged to continue screaming. There were also short group therapy sessions, there were exercises involving listing all the things our parents had ever done to hurt us, focusing on all the pain and suffering that we'd ever felt and how angry it made us. After all of us were exhausted we read letters our parents sent us about how much they loved us and why they chose to send us away. Needless to say there was a lot of crying.
The second lifestep had exercises where we had to sit in a circle, while one of us would walk around from person to person to hear whether that one or this one considered them a "giver" or a "taker". After we'd all judged each other we had to say to people why we felt this way about them. Some of this took the form of harsh criticism masked as praise. There were exercises involving how we judge ourselves and how we present ourselves to others. We had to wear cards around our necks that labeled us as one thing or another to supposedly demonstrate how restrictive the images we present to people can be. I remember carving images into cubes of sandstone to symbolize all the good qualities we had and who we really were. I also remember listening to Enya and other new age music, and doing a warped guided meditation which, rather than enhancing relaxation heightens emotions like guilt, sadness and fear. It was either in this lifestep or the third that we did an exercise involving manic, happy music, and all of us being instructed to smile until it started to hurt, and walk around laughing and smiling and looking at each other for about 5-10 minutes with the song on repeat. By the end many were crying, some were on the verge of hysteria.
The third lifestep was probably the most traumatic and damaging. It involved internalizing immense guilt. We had to write down anything and everything that we'd ever done to hurt ourselves, told how horrible it was, then forced to look at childhood pictures of ourselves that our parents had mailed to the school. Sitting there for what seemed like hours being yelled at because all the mistakes, impulses, and self destruction we'd gone through were "horrible things that we, as horrible people had done to the innocent children that we were" We were told to imagine all these wrongdoings being visited upon these children, as if we'd done them to some helpless little kid ourselves. Hurting yourself because you're horribly depressed is suddenly akin to torturing preschoolers. Talk about cognitive dissonance! We had to draw a symbolic portrait of ourselves involving all our interests, loves, etc., then tack the childhood picture to it. The other focus of this lifestep was the emotional manipulations or games that we use in an attempt to fill holes in our lives. We acted out all the games we each typically used, and had our peer group guess which one. Games such as playing the victim, using intimidation, attention games, the "everything is fine" game, etc.
The fourth lifestep involved a modified Native American sweat ritual. One of these took place before the first lifestep, almost a pre lifestep. This ritual was kind of like group therapy in a sauna, with some new age religious undertones. We were smudged with sage before entering the sweat lodge, there was a little discussion about purification. We talked about grudges we held, and how they weighed us down. To illustrate this concept physically, we took a long walk in the woods late at night, each of us carrying a rock about the size of a large melon and being lectured to about how we weigh ourselves down by not letting things go. We weren't allowed to put down the rocks, and the walk lasted somewhere between 1 and 2 hours. Being able to set down the rock was supposed to symbolize how good it feels to let go of anger and resentment. Perfect timing, the program's almost over, let's assuage some of the anger that comes from having a year of your life stolen.
All in all I would say that these lifesteps are a clear indication of the cult like way that the academy is run. In addition I would like to comment on the pervasive nature of the levels and punishment/reward system that was in effect. Profanity was punishable by doing pushups, we were continually encouraged to report each other for anything and everything, for our own good. Dish duty would be assigned for having a shirt untucked or for not cleaning the dorm before breakfast adequately. Being late to meetings or classes had similar consequences. Consequences, not punishments. There was no such thing as a punishment at ASR, just like there were no rules, only Agreements. Since you agreed to not do this or that, you had already accepted the consequence for breaking the agreement. I don't remember ever signing a contract, but then again, since as a minor you don't really have rights or the ability to sign contracts, none of that matters. The point is, it was a very effective technique for fostering obedience through guilt. You didn't just fuck up, you went back on your word and let down the school. The rule system was so pervasive it was difficult to make it through an entire day without breaking at least one. Privileges were removed at the drop of a hat. If you read too many books, you were avoiding people, and weren't allowed to read for pleasure. If you were rude or rowdy you might go on a restriction and lose the privilege of any and all recreational activity for between 1 and 4 weeks. Restrictions could involve being on "bans" with groups or individuals in the school, such as "bans with all lower school students", or all females, all males, etc. You couldn't talk to people you were on bans with or you faced serious consquences. This often caused difficulty in coordinating schoolwork with therapy. Restrictions ended when counselors felt you'd accepted whatever you'd done was horribly wrong and you felt horrible about it/learned something. Then you'd tell the whole school about it and apologize at the end of the day meeting.
Academics are another concern. The options for classes were limited, the teachers often weren't qualified. My chemistry teacher was an English major who was only a chapter ahead of the class each week. He was filling in until they found someone who knew chemistry. Most of the teachers, even those qualified to teach their subject, did not know how to deal with kids with learning disabilities, or kids who acted out constantly. This had a negative effect on the amount of actual teaching that got done. Student's writings, paintings, etc. were often censored for being to dark, too imagey, too negative, too sexual, etc. Reading material was restricted, the library was full of outdated books and random novels, all of it unorganized. On numerous occasions books I'd found in the library were confiscated, apparently even some of them weren't appropriate.
Inmates faced a barrage of emotional abuse from counselors and students alike. Students tried to curry favor by enforcing rules and ratting on others. Once an accusation of rulebreaking, innapropriate behavior, telling "warstories" i.e. talking less than disdainfully about anything ASR didn't like, such as drugs, sex, stunts we'd pulled that got us sent there. Challenging the rules for any reason was being manipulative, denying an accusation was being in denial. Getting upset at false accusations was an attempt to intimidate the accuser. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
At least a third of the inmates were on either wellbutrin or adderall. You got to see one of the 2 psychiatrists the school employed, no one from outside. You weren't allowed to refuse medication either.
Some of the other issues in the program were a lack of policies on various issues such as religions, sexual orientation, and a number of other things. For example, Rudy Bentz the headmaster would frequently speak of a higher power in thinly veiled judeo-christian propaganda terms, and there was a clear preference for mainstream religions. Shortly after 9-11 in a schoolwide discussion, he failed to reprimand or even comment on an inmate yelling in front of the school an insensitive comment about "fucking towelheads". Wiccan or Buddhist students were often slighted, or accused of using the religion as part of their image rather than professing a sincere belief. Big fucking christmas tree up in the common room, slight chanukah concession for the few jewish kids, nothing for anyone else.
On other occasions, I was told by certain counselors that I did not know what my sexual orientation was and I was going through a delusional phase where I mistakenly believed I was bisexual. Yet other counselors told me it was normal and natural and to trust myself. The lack of clear policies on these and other issues created untold confusion and despair.
All in all, I think the program has absolutely minimal potential to help anyone, and most of the help it offers comes solely from the extended period of time away from a harmful home environment, and the substantial reflection it necessitates. The entire premise revolves around group mentality, breaking down and moulding psyches, a complex reward and punishment system combined with censorship and constant, constant, constant reinforcement of obedience that comes from never knowing whether or not you're "in agreement" (currently not violating or witholding a confession about past violations of the rules), and always worrying about being punished.
Through the use of repetitive propaganda, peer pressure, and psycholinguistics, the process of conveniently rephrasing everything to give it a slant that is in line with the belief you're trying to force upon a captive population. Rules are agreements, punishments are consequences, shoveling snow for 6 hours is "getting back in agreement", expressing your feelings in an unapproved manner is either acting out or manipulative behavior.
The Academy at Swift River has done untold damage to hundreds of children whose only crime was being born to parents who held them to unreasonable standards, often abused them mentally, physically and sexually, often were alcoholics or drug addicts or suffered from mental disorders, and thought that money could fix their kid. There is a certain amount of accountability on the parents part, but it's pretty much lip service when you get right down to it. Kids are beaten, berated, treated as less than human, and shipped away to prison without a trial when they understandably start to act out in these circumstances. They go through a 14 month sentence of emotional torture under questionable auspices, subjected to the horrors I've described above. To claim that the parents who sent them there are being called to task because they have to go through a 3 hour group therapy session once every 3 months and hear about how they fucked up their kid doesn't even begin to address the issues at hand.
The whole thing is a twisted mixture of cult and psych ward, it should be burnt to the ground and its founders should be jailed.
The Who wrote:
Quote
Thank you for clarifying that. Your account mirrors closely to that of my childs, so I do believe you experienced what you say you did, although the accounts that I heard had a much more positive affect. Much of the detail is dramatically different.
I feel this further supports the fact that not every school is beneficial to every student and there needs to be a better screening process in place to help define which students will be successful.
Like any organization they may need to continue to monitor the training of their counselors, the success or failure of the life steps could be that simple (or very devistating) depending on how they are presented.
Yes, you are right the counselors are fully vested in the success of the kids they work with and want the best for them. This comes across very clearly with the ones I have met.
What Goodtobefree described is abuse. You said it 'closely mirrors that of your child'. Your child was abused.
Post by: Deborah on January 12, 2007, 07:48:52 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""Deborah""Ganja,
You havin a hard time with Who getting grilled, or 'spanked' as it were? Or just bored? Is Who a friend of your's?
Would you prefer we discuss cars, pot, drinkin... somethin real productive.
Don't mean to be rude, just don't understand your insistence that this thread end. Talk to Ginger, see if she'll close it.
The answer to your question has already been clearly stated and I don't particularly care for your insinuations; totally uncalled for.
I would like to see Who and the rest of you do something else with their time for a while; that is all.
And I'm askin why it matters to you, someone who doesn't have a horse in this race. Stop reading the thread. Good god, there are hundreds/thousands more for your reading pleasure.
I asked questions, didn't 'insinuate' anything. If you're needing attention, we can join you on another thread if you like.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 07:50:09 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
And I'm askin why it matters to you, someone who doesn't have a horse in this race. Stop reading the thread. Good god, there are hundreds/thousands more for your reading pleasure.
I asked questions, didn't 'insinuate' anything. If you're needing attention, we can join you on another thread if you like.
:rofl:
Post by: Ganja on January 12, 2007, 07:55:46 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
And I'm askin why it matters to you, someone who doesn't have a horse in this race. Stop reading the thread. Good god, there are hundreds/thousands more for your reading pleasure.
Not really; I'm pretty caught up here on anything that looked remotely interesting...that's beside the point anyway..
I think a little time to digest what's gone down can sometimes be a healthy approach to having a discussion. Just a little breather... "What's the fucking hurry," I guess is what I'm thinking.
It's like you're worried that people are going to actually take his word as gospel truth or something, and I doubt this is the case. I merely express the desire for a hiatus is all.
Post by: Ganja on January 12, 2007, 07:56:38 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Deborah""And I'm askin why it matters to you, someone who doesn't have a horse in this race. Stop reading the thread. Good god, there are hundreds/thousands more for your reading pleasure.
I asked questions, didn't 'insinuate' anything. If you're needing attention, we can join you on another thread if you like.
:rofl:
You MUST be high.. just saying.
Post by: Deborah on January 12, 2007, 08:02:54 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
[It's like you're worried that people are going to actually take his word as gospel truth or something, and I doubt this is the case. I merely express the desire for a hiatus is all.
Great then take a hiatus. Some of us WORK during the day and therefore respond when we can. Do you think we don't stop and think before we respond? Can't speak for everyone, but I do. It takes time to dig up his post from the past to refute his bullshit in the present.
I can appreciate that it's not interesting to you. I really can. There are many threads that bore the shit out of me. I don't go on and ask people to stop posting. I don't understand where you're coming from unless conflict is uncomfortable for you. If that's the case, then please take the hiatus.
Discussions ebb and flow on Fornits, as you well know. Who's been gone for a while. We are so very glad to hear from him again. Hope you can understand. :lol:
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 08:06:14 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""Guest""You MUST be high.. just saying.Quote from: ""Deborah""And I'm askin why it matters to you, someone who doesn't have a horse in this race. Stop reading the thread. Good god, there are hundreds/thousands more for your reading pleasure.
I asked questions, didn't 'insinuate' anything. If you're needing attention, we can join you on another thread if you like.
:rofl:
Oh lighten up. I thought the last line was amusing. But yes, I am. :D
Post by: Ganja on January 12, 2007, 08:08:24 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Ganja""Quote from: ""Guest""You MUST be high.. just saying.Quote from: ""Deborah""And I'm askin why it matters to you, someone who doesn't have a horse in this race. Stop reading the thread. Good god, there are hundreds/thousands more for your reading pleasure.
I asked questions, didn't 'insinuate' anything. If you're needing attention, we can join you on another thread if you like.
:rofl:
Oh lighten up. I thought the last line was amusing. But yes, I am. :D
I knew it! :rofl: I'll lighten up as son as I can- I'm expecting an important call so I shall hold off for now. Now log back in, sexy pirate lady.
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 08:10:53 PM
Who, you are one twisted fuck!!
:o :o :o
Start at the top of the page. His discussion with Goodtobefree.
Post by: Ganja on January 12, 2007, 08:11:47 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""Ganja""[It's like you're worried that people are going to actually take his word as gospel truth or something, and I doubt this is the case. I merely express the desire for a hiatus is all.
Great then take a hiatus. Some of us WORK during the day and therefore respond when we can. Do you think we don't stop and think before we respond? Can't speak for everyone, but I do. It takes time to dig up his post from the past to refute his bullshit in the present.
I can appreciate that it's not interesting to you. I really can. There are many threads that bore the shit out of me. I don't go on and ask people to stop posting. I don't understand where you're coming from unless conflict is uncomfortable for you. If that's the case, then please take the hiatus.
Discussions ebb and flow on Fornits, as you well know. Who's been gone for a while. We are so very glad to hear from him again. Hope you can understand. :lol:
Well it's only a matter of time; again, what's the fucking rush? Take your time, try not to forget... oh, nevermind that's Straight-edge stuff. Still some pretty rockin' shit though, without a doubt. Minor Threat. Anyway, I suppose it boils down to whether Who continues to listen to me or not..
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 08:18:22 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
I knew it! :rofl: I'll lighten up as son as I can- I'm expecting an important call so I shall hold off for now. Now log back in, sexy pirate lady.
Asshole! ::both:: :rofl: :smokin: ::bandit:: :wave:
Post by: Ganja on January 12, 2007, 08:18:35 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
We are so very glad to hear from him again. Hope you can understand. :lol:
I don't want to turn him off, just change his channel. Hopefully, Live at Leeds and some good smoke can start him on his way to a better life.
Post by: Ganja on January 12, 2007, 08:22:33 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""Ganja""I knew it! :rofl: I'll lighten up as son as I can- I'm expecting an important call so I shall hold off for now. Now log back in, sexy pirate lady.
Asshole! ::both:: :rofl: :smokin: ::bandit:: :wave:
Ha!! :rofl: :P :wave:
Post by: Deborah on January 12, 2007, 08:29:20 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""Guest""I knew it! :rofl: I'll lighten up as son as I can- I'm expecting an important call so I shall hold off for now. Now log back in, sexy pirate lady.Quote from: ""Ganja""Quote from: ""Guest""You MUST be high.. just saying.Quote from: ""Deborah""And I'm askin why it matters to you, someone who doesn't have a horse in this race. Stop reading the thread. Good god, there are hundreds/thousands more for your reading pleasure.
I asked questions, didn't 'insinuate' anything. If you're needing attention, we can join you on another thread if you like.
:rofl:
Oh lighten up. I thought the last line was amusing. But yes, I am. :D
Not me sweetcakes. Someone else playin with ya. :lol:
Post by: Deborah on January 12, 2007, 08:47:56 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""Deborah""We are so very glad to hear from him again. Hope you can understand. :lol:I don't want to turn him off, just change his channel. Hopefully, Live at Leeds and some good smoke can start him on his way to a better life.
I'm down with that Ganja. Maybe you could work on BMin him in PMs!! :smokin:
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 08:53:55 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""Deborah""We are so very glad to hear from him again. Hope you can understand. :lol:I don't want to turn him off, just change his channel. Hopefully, Live at Leeds and some good smoke can start him on his way to a better life.
If that doesn't work there's always SIBS.
http://fornits.com/SIBS/awf.htm (http://fornits.com/SIBS/awf.htm)
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 09:31:11 PM
What have I missed?
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2007, 09:33:05 PM
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 09:35:16 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
The point.
Well played.
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 12, 2007, 09:39:32 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
What have I missed?
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
The point.
(http://http://0wn3d.dk/owned/pwn3dcatkick.jpg)
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 09:57:56 PM
Quote
ASR is what the graduates and parents say it is and as long as people are spending money it must have value.
I am not sure why this stands out. If the graduates feel it adds value then it is worth something. Lets pick any corporation say Microsoft. If the reporters and news people say the company sucks and their products are bad it may raise an eyebrow or two but the bottom line is the consumers. If people are using and getting value out of the product that is what counts. Only the users really appreciate what they got out of it, people on the outside can only speculate.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 10:08:31 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This is your proof that it "worked" for your daughter?QuoteMy daughter Finished at ASR and within a week went back to her old friends , drank and smoked. After a couple of weekends she stayed home and said "My friends just sit around, smoke and drink. They dont want to do anything or talk about anything but getting high". I smiled and thought to myself "That was you 16 months ago."
She went on to get a job gradually met new friends and is doing well.
To answer your question: Yes it is!
But one of my beefs was that they release kids back into their old environment without a support system. When my daughter came home she went right back to her friends and it was obvious that ASR needed a transition program which they do have in place now. My daughter went back and tried everything that she missed but she realized it wasn?t a lifestyle she wanted.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 10:12:54 PM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
That analogy is like comparing and asshole to a cock. Different things come out of both you know!
Microsoft... Low quality pissy products that do nothing but annoy the consumer
ASR... Nothing but shit.
You may not agree with the analogy but the consumer does define and dictate the success of the product.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 10:15:54 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
To answer your question: Yes it is!
But one of my beefs was that they release kids back into their old environment without a support system. When my daughter came home she went right back to her friends and it was obvious that ASR needed a transition program which they do have in place now. My daughter went back and tried everything that she missed but she realized it wasn?t a lifestyle she wanted.
What's plainly obvious is that your daughter grew up. Mine did too. Do you remember any of what I told you about my oldest daughter? I guarantee she caused me as much or more fear as yours. Difference is, I believed in her and in her ability to grow from her own mistakes. It took a while and there were more than a few sleepless nights, knock down drag outs, LE, physical fights with her sister (who is/was much smaller) and trashing her room because she was pissed she couldn't find some more "X". The lessons we learn from our own mistakes are the ones that are meaningful. The ones forced upon us are not.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 10:17:01 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""That analogy is like comparing and asshole to a cock. Different things come out of both you know!
Microsoft... Low quality pissy products that do nothing but annoy the consumer
ASR... Nothing but shit.
You may not agree with the analogy but the consumer does define and dictate the success of the product.
This is why people call you names ya fucking asswipe! We're talking about kids, not a 'product'.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 10:23:53 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteHey, Who...Was Don Vardell the administrator during your malingering association with ASR? He was at Peninsula Village. Does ASR change administrators as often as PV, like every 1 1/2 years?I don?t recall the name, but many staff names have changed in the past 3 years.
Oh horseshit. You know his name, the infamous Rudy Bentz. Followed by John Powers, then the infamous Vardell. In fact, ASR had 6 Directors in 7 years? And about 3 or 4 different directors of the Addictions program.
I dont remember Vardell. John Powers was Dean of Academics when my daughter went there, I remember him and Rudy Bentz.
Sweetie, are you having memory failure, or are you the best damn troll to ever hit Fornits. Did you even have a daughter in ASR?
Powers (Exec Dir- new term) was the Director when your daughter was there. When they fired HeadMaster Bentz, who you said you liked, and before they hired Alan Russell and promoted Powers to Reg Dir of Eastern Residential Schools and Programs. Ten months later, Vardell replaces Russell.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... heard.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2003/9/sep03seennheard.html)
Why is this important to you? Rudy Bentz was Head master, John Powers was Dean of Academics. I don?t remember Vardell. Is there a reason I should? I don?t remember Alan Russell either. I interfaced with the Dean of academics a few of the teachers, the counselors and Rudy the Dean of Students. Whats the point?
Post by: RobertBruce on January 12, 2007, 10:26:37 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 10:34:19 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
To answer your question: Yes it is!
But one of my beefs was that they release kids back into their old environment without a support system. When my daughter came home she went right back to her friends and it was obvious that ASR needed a transition program which they do have in place now. My daughter went back and tried everything that she missed but she realized it wasn?t a lifestyle she wanted.
What's plainly obvious is that your daughter grew up. Mine did too. Do you remember any of what I told you about my oldest daughter? I guarantee she caused me as much or more fear as yours. Difference is, I believed in her and in her ability to grow from her own mistakes. It took a while and there were more than a few sleepless nights, knock down drag outs, LE, physical fights with her sister (who is/was much smaller) and trashing her room because she was pissed she couldn't find some more "X". The lessons we learn from our own mistakes are the ones that are meaningful. The ones forced upon us are not.
Ah Anne dont judge others that quickly, I wish it was that easy. I went through the same thing you did and then some take what you experienced with your kids kick it an order of magnitude higher and then add exposure to younger sibs.
We didnt ship her off, we worked side by side all the way, loved her supported her and in the long run our decisions paid off just like yours. I dont judge you for your decisions. Hopefully you dont judge others because they didn?t take the same route as you. Each situation is different remember that
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 10:41:03 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Ah Anne dont judge others that quickly, I wish it was that easy. I went through the same thing you did and then some take what you experienced with your kids kick it an order of magnitude higher and then add exposure to younger sibs.
Did you not see where I said she had a younger, much smaller sister? What makes you think yours was any worse off than mine? I posted a couple of sentences about her, not her entire life story.
Quote
We didnt ship her off, we worked side by side all the way, loved her supported her and in the long run our decisions paid off just like yours. I dont judge you for you decisions. Hopefully you dont judge others because they didn?t take the same route as you. Each situation is different remember that
Usually I don't judge others but in this case I'm making an exception. I know very well the kind of therapy and treatment your daughter received. I know much more about ASR than you think I do and I've got the advantage that you don't have of being both a teen in a program and a parent of a so-called "out of control" teen (that's not the term that I would use, but she was classified as such when she ended up at juvie for an assessment). I've read what you've posted. You have no problem with this form of therapy. You read Goodtobefree's posts, said they were fairly accurate and believe that was appropriate for your daughter. So I am judging you and you are wrong. Dead wrong and you may not realize the consequences of your actions for years if ever.
Post by: psy on January 12, 2007, 10:43:09 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
You guys have been busy, I will try to answer a couple:QuoteASR is what the graduates and parents say it is and as long as people are spending money it must have value.
I am not sure why this stands out. If the graduates feel it adds value then it is worth something. Lets pick any corporation say Microsoft. If the reporters and news people say the company sucks and their products are bad it may raise an eyebrow or two but the bottom line is the consumers. If people are using and getting value out of the product that is what counts. Only the users really appreciate what they got out of it, people on the outside can only speculate.
Bad example.
People buy microsoft products because they hold a virtual monopoly over computer sales. Micro$oft does not care about the quality of their products becuase they know they have no competition. does the Troubled Teen industry have any competition? Any oversight? Microsoft? Of course not. It's private industry.
So when microsoft sells their product to the government and it gets used to manage a nuclear aircraft carrier (ironically, the Bush), and it's constantly in dry dock since the systems keeps crashing... That's a typical example of what happens when there is no motivation for quality control.... and a lot of campaign contributions i might add.
People might be using their products, but is only because they (think they) have to. The alternatives cannot afford the same level of marketing required to gain popular public support (being mostly free). Marketing and business monopolies, not quality, not the customers, define what will be used.
Now you've done it... i've gone off on an M$ rant again...
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 10:58:19 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""That analogy is like comparing and asshole to a cock. Different things come out of both you know!
Microsoft... Low quality pissy products that do nothing but annoy the consumer
ASR... Nothing but shit.
You may not agree with the analogy but the consumer does define and dictate the success of the product.
This is why people call you names ya fucking asswipe! We're talking about kids, not a 'product'.
Anne --
After all these years you still don?t get it!! The consumers control and define the products. The examples are endless:
People start walking to work, the price of oil goes down.
People switch to apple computers, Microsoft Tanks
Everyone buys Pepsi, Coke goes out of Business.
People stop paying $6,000 a month for TBS?s the price will drop to $4,000 a month. Nobody shows up with a kid, the price drops to $2,000 after that they cant pay their rent and they fold and go home.
On the other end if too many people pay $6,000 and they start to run out of beds then the price goes to $8,000 a month and then $10,000 a month.
So you see it isn?t the institutions that are setting the price or calling the shots it is the consumers. Everyone here is running around blaming the schools, but they are simply trying to meet demand!!
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 11:08:45 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""TheWho""You guys have been busy, I will try to answer a couple:QuoteASR is what the graduates and parents say it is and as long as people are spending money it must have value.
I am not sure why this stands out. If the graduates feel it adds value then it is worth something. Lets pick any corporation say Microsoft. If the reporters and news people say the company sucks and their products are bad it may raise an eyebrow or two but the bottom line is the consumers. If people are using and getting value out of the product that is what counts. Only the users really appreciate what they got out of it, people on the outside can only speculate.
Bad example.
People buy microsoft products because they hold a virtual monopoly over computer sales. Micro$oft does not care about the quality of their products becuase they know they have no competition. does the Troubled Teen industry have any competition? Any oversight? Microsoft? Of course not. It's private industry.
So when microsoft sells their product to the government and it gets used to manage a nuclear aircraft carrier (ironically, the Bush), and it's constantly in dry dock since the systems keeps crashing... That's a typical example of what happens when there is no motivation for quality control.... and a lot of campaign contributions i might add.
People might be using their products, but is only because they (think they) have to. The alternatives cannot afford the same level of marketing required to gain popular public support (being mostly free). Marketing and business monopolies, not quality, not the customers, define what will be used.
Now you've done it... i've gone off on an M$ rant again...
Yeah, I see your point with microsoft. I was a huge fan of QuattroPro? myself (I think it was called) years ago but we had to convert because Microsoft had the grip and we couldnt do both. They forced the package on us. But it wasnt a better product at the time, we needed to step down. So there are exceptions....Thanks for pointing that out.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 11:28:18 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Ah Anne dont judge others that quickly, I wish it was that easy. I went through the same thing you did and then some take what you experienced with your kids kick it an order of magnitude higher and then add exposure to younger sibs.
Did you not see where I said she had a younger, much smaller sister? What makes you think yours was any worse off than mine? I posted a couple of sentences about her, not her entire life story.QuoteWe didnt ship her off, we worked side by side all the way, loved her supported her and in the long run our decisions paid off just like yours. I dont judge you for you decisions. Hopefully you dont judge others because they didn?t take the same route as you. Each situation is different remember that
Usually I don't judge others but in this case I'm making an exception. I know very well the kind of therapy and treatment your daughter received. I know much more about ASR than you think I do and I've got the advantage that you don't have of being both a teen in a program and a parent of a so-called "out of control" teen (that's not the term that I would use, but she was classified as such when she ended up at juvie for an assessment). I've read what you've posted. You have no problem with this form of therapy. You read Goodtobefree's posts, said they were fairly accurate and believe that was appropriate for your daughter. So I am judging you and you are wrong. Dead wrong and you may not realize the consequences of your actions for years if ever.
Yes , Goodtobefree was a very intense poster, who was difficult to communicate with (you can read some of his responses if you like) I agreed that his account of his time was similar to my daughters account to validate that what he felt was okay and justified. He told me enough to make me believe he had attended ASR. He felt he was abused there! But what should I have said? No you are wrong my daughter had a different experience? I think if a person feels they are abused they are abused!! Who am I to say. Some people grow from the experience and find it motivating others feel it was abusive. How do we classify it?
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 11:33:14 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Yes , Goodtobefree was a very intense poster, who was difficult to communicate with (you can read some of his responses if you like) I agreed that his account of his time was similar to my daughters account to validate that what he felt was okay and justified. He told me enough to make me believe he had attended ASR. He felt he was abused there! But what should I have said? No you are wrong my daughter had a different experience? I think if a person feels they are abused they are abused!! Who am I to say. Some people grow from the experience and find it motivating others feel it was abusive. How do we classify it?
As the abusive thought reform and behavior modification that it is.
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 11:38:39 PM
If you decide to get a user name, be careful of the Private Messages (PM) the private part of it doesnt apply. Its just as open as the forums.
It really sucks that they allow that!!
Post by: TheWho on January 12, 2007, 11:43:46 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Yes , Goodtobefree was a very intense poster, who was difficult to communicate with (you can read some of his responses if you like) I agreed that his account of his time was similar to my daughters account to validate that what he felt was okay and justified. He told me enough to make me believe he had attended ASR. He felt he was abused there! But what should I have said? No you are wrong my daughter had a different experience? I think if a person feels they are abused they are abused!! Who am I to say. Some people grow from the experience and find it motivating others feel it was abusive. How do we classify it?
As the abusive thought reform and behavior modification that it is.
Nah, its a good safe place to be, need to put it in perspective, its not straight in the 80's. Think of what goes on in the public sector, rape, suicide, drug overdose, bullying, graduate without being able to read, gang violence., Columbine violence. TBS's dont experience any of this crap.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 11:53:09 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I typically dont give advice at all but this is to new parents or new posters:
If you decide to get a user name, be careful of the Private Messages (PM) the private part of it doesnt apply. Its just as open as the forums.
It really sucks that they allow that!!
Nobody "allows" anything. People are responsible for their own behaviors. TSW posted apologizing for putting up Karen's PM.
Quit trying to scare people.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 12, 2007, 11:55:58 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Nah, its a good safe place to be, need to put it in perspective,
I'd say I've got more perspective on this than you do. Have you been through one of these places? No, you haven't. I have and I've raised two kids.
Quote
its not straight in the 80's.
Pretty much.
Quote
Think of what goes on in the public sector, rape, suicide, drug overdose, bullying, graduate without being able to read, gang violence., Columbine violence. TBS's dont experience any of this crap.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Again, what color is the sky in your world?
Post by: RobertBruce on January 12, 2007, 11:56:01 PM
Quote
I think if a person feels they are abused they are abused!! Who am I to say.
Well then why do you continue to downplay and discount peoples experience when they say they have been abused.
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2007, 12:03:44 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Think of what goes on in the public sector, rape, suicide, drug overdose, bullying, graduate without being able to read, gang violence., Columbine violence. TBS's dont experience any of this crap.
Smoking out on angel dust again, eh, TheWho? There are rapes, illiterate graduates, bullying, and gang violence (not Crips and Bloods, but essentially "gangs") at every program ever mentioned on Fornits. In most programs, it's considered part of the therapy.
You are obviously a brain-damaged, ignorant buffoon, The Who. For you to make statements like the one above, you obviously know nothing of what you are talking abgout. Kinda like the Pope and sex. You like to talk about it and tell others what it's about, but you have no personal experience of it at all.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 13, 2007, 12:51:04 AM
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20152&start=60 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20152&start=60)
Quote from: ""Cassandra""
Child abuse is wrong no matter where it occurs. But, due to the sheer religious fanaticism and political and economic sway of many of the principle drivers in this industry, this is a special case. These sadistic lunatics are making laws and other public policy. People take their advice and hand them great big sacks of what used to be our money to impliment their ideas because they believe they're the experts, they know what they're doing. Well now the first generation of Synanon kids are entering [eghgheghm] middle age. And there are a damned lot of us, it turns out. That wasn't the case when we were first tossed out in the early, rudamentary 'exit plan' days (no cash, no ticket, just change the locks, that's it). No one fucking believed us, even if they tried to understand. So we quit talking about it. Now, how do you network with people based on shared interest if nobody ever talks about that interest?
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 13, 2007, 02:24:41 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
The consumers control and define the products. The examples are endless:
People start walking to work, the price of oil goes down.
People switch to apple computers, Microsoft Tanks
Everyone buys Pepsi, Coke goes out of Business.
People stop paying $6,000 a month for TBS?s the price will drop to $4,000 a month. Nobody shows up with a kid, the price drops to $2,000 after that they cant pay their rent and they fold and go home.
On the other end if too many people pay $6,000 and they start to run out of beds then the price goes to $8,000 a month and then $10,000 a month.
So you see it isn?t the institutions that are setting the price or calling the shots it is the consumers. Everyone here is running around blaming the schools, but they are simply trying to meet demand!!
For once I agree with you 100%.
A lot of people here think that the parents are being somehow duped, or swindled, by the tens of thousands, into sending their kids to programs. I think parents are getting exactly what they are paying for.
I don't think this is just about governmental policy, and the drug war. Most kids at these programs never even tried hard drugs. The teen help industry is, for all intensive purposes, an unregulated industry. What we are seeing is simply the proliferation of the wishes of middle and upper class parents in America. I think they are getting exactly what they pay for.
You can already see the teen industry market shaping the industry by trends in certain program variations and styles. It's an ebb and flow depending on the mood of the market, but since it's inception one thing has never changed, it's growing -- and now it seems faster than ever.
The funny thing is, the program parents, they are all the same. You met one, you met them all. They hire the gardener to mow the lawn. Hire the pool man to clean the pool. Hire the dog trainer to fix the dog. And outsource discipline to a private company outside the house. It all paints a very bleak picture, but at least the colors match.
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2007, 02:52:13 AM
Quote from: ""G420""
but since it's inception one thing has never changed, it's growing -- and now it seems faster than ever.
Prove it.
I'm getting really sick of this one. Says who? The programmies? I don't see growth and expansion. I see fragmentation and dissipation. Let's have a rundown of the big players here:
HLA - dying horribly
CEDU - crushed
Elan - according to general consensus, no longer pulls the shit it used to
Hyde - still alive
WWASPS - cannot survive; too many enemies. Destruction is simply inevitable.
PV - not going to last; again, too much hate directed at it
Aspen - the last big one to kill off
I see a whole lot of fancy websites, a whole lot of claims, a whole lot of trying to lump in things that are clearly not TBSes into "the industry", and very little evidence for any sort of real expansion.
This is what we've learned from HLA- when a program is dying, it makes every effort possible not to let anyone know about it. The shutdowns are always "unexpected", except to the people watching them closely. Why? Because the people who run these places are wedded to the abuse. They have to keep up the mask. They have to maintain the illusion. If anything slips, it all slips, and their empires crumble to dust. They cannot ever, no matter what, admit this. They'll let everything else go to ruin before they abandon what they've wrought, for once the veil goes down, they have to realize what it is they've truly done.
Programs, unfortunately, make more programmies- both from a few heavily brainwashed victims, and a few programmed parents who love the idea and want to subject more kids to it. On the other hand, the Internet is utterly ruthless at exposing these people, and more and more of the general population gets clued in. Remember, you can't un-clue someone in to this shit; once a person is inoculated against it, it doesn't matter what happens after that. (See Exhausted; no matter what her kids end up doing, she's not going to ship them off to some hellhole.)
So what we get is an increasing number of fanatics, but a dwindling population of people willing to pay for it.
Long-term the situation is simply untenable. It's rather like an MLM scam. In the early days of MLM, they found a lot of people willing to buy into it, because nobody knew what it was. Now? Good luck finding anyone, because almost every adult knows what a pyramid scheme is. Same with Scientology; good luck getting any new recruits, because we all know what it is. The same thing is inevitable here; the Internet just speeds it all up.
There are a few parents out there who really do want to pay for their children to be abused, but there's not all that many of them and there's way too many programmies out there looking for fresh meat. The industry will shrink.
Also, the cops are getting clued into this (see the Randall Hinton arrest), which will further speed its downfall, and I'm also getting really, really sick of people seeing the police as the enemy. Bullshit they are. They're what is ultimately needed to put this shit to rest.
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 07:59:21 AM
Quote from: ""RTP2k3""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Think of what goes on in the public sector, rape, suicide, drug overdose, bullying, graduate without being able to read, gang violence., Columbine violence. TBS's dont experience any of this crap.
Smoking out on angel dust again, eh, TheWho? There are rapes, illiterate graduates, bullying, and gang violence (not Crips and Bloods, but essentially "gangs") at every program ever mentioned on Fornits. In most programs, it's considered part of the therapy.
You are obviously a brain-damaged, ignorant buffoon, The Who. For you to make statements like the one above, you obviously know nothing of what you are talking abgout. Kinda like the Pope and sex. You like to talk about it and tell others what it's about, but you have no personal experience of it at all.
Name a gang at ASR?
Post by: Troll Control on January 13, 2007, 08:43:29 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""RTP2k3""Quote from: ""TheWho""Think of what goes on in the public sector, rape, suicide, drug overdose, bullying, graduate without being able to read, gang violence., Columbine violence. TBS's dont experience any of this crap.
Smoking out on angel dust again, eh, TheWho? There are rapes, illiterate graduates, bullying, and gang violence (not Crips and Bloods, but essentially "gangs") at every program ever mentioned on Fornits. In most programs, it's considered part of the therapy.
You are obviously a brain-damaged, ignorant buffoon, The Who. For you to make statements like the one above, you obviously know nothing of what you are talking abgout. Kinda like the Pope and sex. You like to talk about it and tell others what it's about, but you have no personal experience of it at all.
Name a gang at ASR?
The Staff.
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 09:11:24 AM
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 10:52:15 AM
This is why I believe fornits misleads parents and hides the truth. There are TBS?s which are very effective and safe for your children and they know it but they have an agenda. We see it on TV every single day about the rapes and drug overdoses, suicides and gang violence in our schools.
What do we hear about TBS? Talk to some of the parents whose kids have gone thru them. They are very effective for some and some kids cannot get reached. People here may tell you it is all brain washing and hush hush behind closed doors. But ASR, to chose one, opened their doors to news people to film a persons time thru ASR. They opened their doors to award winning novelists to write a story on the accounts there. If everything was so secret why would they risk it? If rapes were happening you would hear about it. Sure the kids may sneak some pot back into school and not get caught for awhile or have a relationship with another student briefly, but it is a boarding school for teens and stuff might happen. But it is 100 times safer than where most kids are at today.
It is safe folks, you wont hear it here by many, but ask to talk to parents who had kids go thru it.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 13, 2007, 11:09:07 AM
You babbel on and on about how if these things still went on there would be proof, yet when you're shown the proof you immediatly discount it. Youre far to brainwashed to see anything beyond your own programming. Again this is why your daughter hates you. She's probably tried to tell you the same things we are, you're just not listening.
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 12:04:23 PM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
Given your precious ASR is precariously clinging to the side of the toilet like yesterday's lunch I am more than interested to hear what the names of these programs are.
They would be the ones that didn?t make your list of abusive programs with rapists, gangs, drug pushers?
Post by: Deborah on January 13, 2007, 12:19:40 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
There are TBS?s which are very effective and safe for your children and they know it but they have an agenda.
Like HLA? Another 'better', Cream 'o the Crop program you were defending last year?
TheWho would have you believe that programs are 100 times safer, when nothing could be further from the truth. When a program or parent makes such outlandish claims, ask them to cite their sources. There are a few white papers out that attempt to spin success. What a parent should know is that there have been no third-party independent research studies conducted on the industry. Every study they can provide you has been conducted by industry people.
I would advise any parent to talk to parents who've had kids in programs, but don't limit it to the ones the program refers you to. Read the HLA forum for information from ex teens (some adults now), parents, and staff.
You will find examples of rape, inappropriate sexual contact between staff/student and student/student, attempted suicides, hazing incidents (violence), staff mistreatment (violence).
You will read that HLA accepts adjudicated youth, some who left campus to serve their sentence and returned. They accepted seriously distressed kids that put the others at risk. Offer an incentive plan to counselor to decrease attrition. Conduct strip searches. How kids have access to drugs, tobacco, alcohol. Unqualified staff and teachers. Manual labor performed by the kids that enhances the property value. Withhold records and pre-paid tuition. Misappropriated donations. Unlicensed and regulated by the state. Most of this, contrary to their marketing. There is a link on the HLA forum to the Federal Lawsuit that is in progress.
That's a sampling, from one of the Premier programs in the industry. People thought they were different too, until the program fell under scrutiny and the truth began to emerge. Would ASR stand up to the same scrutiny? Perhaps time will tell. But, ASR has a very similar history to HLA. The same CEDU person started both programs. Both use experimental CEDU techniques. Both have aggressively fought the state to remain unlicensed. Why? If they are operating above board, what do they have to be concerned about?
TheWho would have you believe that TBSs are 'effective' when his own daughter returned to drug use and smoking after 16 months in a TBS (as 98% do), moved away and didn't speak to him for 2 years, and didn't go on to college.
If that is success, what does failure look like?
They had 16 months to 'fix' Who's kid. What did they do during that time?
She is not an exception.
They should be embarrassed to take $6000 a month from parents and do little but keep their kid in a holding tank. But, as Who states, it is a market driven by demand. Parents are duped about the services they are paying for and have no skill in evaluating the services provided. So the industry continues to profit. Don't limit your research to Fornits, read StrugglingTeens, where you'll find many, many such 'success' stories. Some who tried multiple TBSs and wilderness programs. Look around MySpace. Thanks to the internet, the information is easily accessible now, and one reason programs won't be able to operate as fradulently as they have in the past.
If you talk to any experienced professional they will tell you that the length of time a teen 'gets off course' is typically about 18 months.
Save your money and grief. Stick it out with your kid. $6000 a month will buy a lot of local services, and the family can actually be involved in the process, as they should be. You can't re-build relationships and resolve issues in 15 minute phone calls once a week and quarterly visits, or even on video conference calls. It's the antithesis of therapy. They know this and will strongly encourage you to make a post-program placement so your child doesn't return home and dash the illusion that the program 'worked'. When kids appear to be successful, it is inspite of the program, not because of it. All programs are spin-offs of CEDU, which was a spin-off of Synanon. The methods and techniques are experimental and not evidence-based. CEDU went bankrupt due to excessive lawsuits. With any luck, there will be a domino effect, and one-by-one the remaining spin-offs will fall.
YOU are quiet likely the only person in the world who has a genunie vested interest in your child. Authentic therapy would not require that you sever contact with your child- you are there only source for reporting abuse and discrepancies in policy. Authentic therapy includes the family on a regular basis and doesn't isolate the child or treat him/her in a bubble. Authentic therapy would not expose a child to injury or the risk of death. Do your research.
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 12:29:36 PM
Quote
What a parent should know is that there have been no third-party independent research studies conducted on the industry.
Agreed no third party negative reports. But I still Isuggest parents call the schools themselves; ask to speak with parents that have been through it. There are good schools out there and some will be a good match others may not. Like Deborah mentioned there haven?t been many studies done, but the feed back that I have seen, and experienced personally, is very positive. Some of the methods used in TBS?s are starting to be incorporated into the public school systems.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 13, 2007, 12:52:04 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
people would opt for the staff over drug dealers and thugs, rapests for their kids to be exposed to, if they had a choice. Most dont have a choice
That's a joke, right? I notice you left "killers" off your list. Odd, because some staff do kill.
Post by: Deborah on January 13, 2007, 12:55:22 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Agreed no third party negative reports. But I still suggest parents call the schools themselves; ask to speak with parents that have been through it. There are good schools out there and some will be a good match others may not. Like Deborah mentioned there haven?t been many studies done, but the feed back that I have seen, and experienced personally, is very positive. Some of the methods used in TBS?s are starting to be incorporated into the public school systems.
This is a typical example of what you can expect to hear from the industry and the perfect time to ask them to cite their sources.
There are numerous credible studies that discourage the aggragation of kids with 'problems'. It has never been proven to be an effective method of 'treatment'.
An internal survey conducted by the industry even suggested that TBSs are most successful at lessening sexual activity, runaways, and suicide-not surprising because this is common for any lock-down facility- but parents didn't feel they got their money's worth.
Last year, Who claimed HLA was a good school. Of course, he hadn't done any research. And continues to speak from hope, not fact. Please, don't rely solely on happy parent testimonies. Everyone's standards are different and some parents are simply incapable of evaluating what the program has actually accomplished with their child, how they did it, and if the means justify the end. Much too big a gamble to take with your child.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 13, 2007, 01:01:26 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteWhat a parent should know is that there have been no third-party independent research studies conducted on the industry.
Agreed no third party negative reports. But I still Isuggest parents call the schools themselves; ask to speak with parents that have been through it. There are good schools out there and some will be a good match others may not. Like Deborah mentioned there haven?t been many studies done, but the feed back that I have seen, and experienced personally, is very positive. Some of the methods used in TBS?s are starting to be incorporated into the public school systems.
No, it was no third party independent reports. There's the Surgeon General's findings on the industry. As far as TBS methods being incorporated into schools, that's fucked up.
Community based treatment, Who, ya got any wisdom to dispense on the subject, or does the idea of keeping the kid at home disturb you? I get the feeling community based isn't always considered as an option because parents want the kid gone and that's all.
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 01:15:42 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2007, 01:19:30 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""Ganja""Quote from: ""Guest""I knew it! :rofl: I'll lighten up as son as I can- I'm expecting an important call so I shall hold off for now. Now log back in, sexy pirate lady.Quote from: ""Ganja""Quote from: ""Guest""You MUST be high.. just saying.Quote from: ""Deborah""And I'm askin why it matters to you, someone who doesn't have a horse in this race. Stop reading the thread. Good god, there are hundreds/thousands more for your reading pleasure.
I asked questions, didn't 'insinuate' anything. If you're needing attention, we can join you on another thread if you like.
:rofl:
Oh lighten up. I thought the last line was amusing. But yes, I am. :D
Not me sweetcakes. Someone else playin with ya. :lol:
Yes, yes...we know. :lol:
Post by: Troll Control on January 13, 2007, 01:23:44 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I dont believe I said HLA was a good school or a bad school. I had a daughter who attended ASR and SUWS.
Oh, yes you did, Who. Lying again. No surprise.
You said all the same things about HLA. Kids "growing," "getting an education," "getting on track," etc. You even went as far as to say that the laws regarding licensed teachers, having a nurse on staff, licensed counselors didn't really matter.
And you made your stupid analogies about the unlicensed teachers and counselors by saying "does having a driver's license make someone a better driver? No, it doesn't. I'm sure these people are doing a good job or they wouldn't be there..." Same shit you were saying about ASR's unlicensed teachers and counselors.
You're full of crap, Who.
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 01:28:38 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2007, 01:31:55 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""RTP2k3""Quote from: ""TheWho""Think of what goes on in the public sector, rape, suicide, drug overdose, bullying, graduate without being able to read, gang violence., Columbine violence. TBS's dont experience any of this crap.
Smoking out on angel dust again, eh, TheWho? There are rapes, illiterate graduates, bullying, and gang violence (not Crips and Bloods, but essentially "gangs") at every program ever mentioned on Fornits. In most programs, it's considered part of the therapy.
You are obviously a brain-damaged, ignorant buffoon, The Who. For you to make statements like the one above, you obviously know nothing of what you are talking abgout. Kinda like the Pope and sex. You like to talk about it and tell others what it's about, but you have no personal experience of it at all.
Name a gang at ASR?
Wow I seemed to have missed this post by RTP... Did he delete it??
Post by: ZenAgent on January 13, 2007, 01:32:04 PM
You're conflicted. Part of growing up is teenage angst. Parents have a kneejerk reaction when they find out their kid has become a teenager and ship 'em off. Also, kids don't have the privacy they once did. MySpace pages have been responsible for getting a few kids shipped off. I know all about that.
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 01:48:04 PM
Quote
You don't need to take draconian measures because your kid smoked a joint.
And what is wrong with smoking a joint? I don?t think many parents are spending $6,000 a month to curb a kid smoking a joint. People here don?t even understand the problem, how are you going to solve anything?
Quote
If you don't think your kid can find his way through normative adolescent behavior, then you fucked up.
Done, she is 21 and doing fine?..
Quote
Addiction runs in families anyway, so there's denial on the parents' part to face it.
Maybe for some, yes. But the problems kids face run through a full spectrum not just addiction issues.
Quote
You're conflicted.
I think you are?..I know what worked for my child, the proof is in the pudding, you think every problem is the same, every parent is the same, all the kids have addictions and only smoked a joint and ended up in a TBS or boot camp. The kids/families problems run way deeper than that.
Your views are way off the mark that is why parents are not listening to you.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 13, 2007, 01:54:08 PM
Quote
If you don't think your kid can find his way through normative adolescent behavior, then you fucked up.
Quote
Done, she is 21 and doing fine?..
I think you missed the point. You shipped her off.
Don't weedle around on this and use your "story" like it's the only one. You seem to be blind to everything else except the experience you claim to have had. Anyone else's hellish time spent in a program is dismissed by you.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 13, 2007, 02:06:59 PM
Quote
Your views are way off the mark that is why parents are not listening to you.
Parents are listening to us Who, that's why these places are closing down. Haven't you been paying attention? Take your blinders off.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 13, 2007, 02:09:07 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 02:11:54 PM
Quote
Don't weedle around on this and use your "story" like it's the only one. You seem to be blind to everything else except the experience you claim to have had. Anyone else's hellish time spent in a program is dismissed by you.
I think you have it backwards, I have spoken to, listened and agreed with many kids that have gone thru the program especially from ASR. You are wrong again? What seems to be denied here on Fornits is that many kids are helped by these programs. I admit that some kids don?t do well but it is you and many here that continuously keep your eyes shut to the fact that kids benefit.
Post by: AtomicAnt on January 13, 2007, 02:13:39 PM
Fact: Children are safer at school than at any other time. They are statistically more likely to be the victim of crime or violence (including murder) at home or in the community than they are at school. You can find several documented sources for this FACT if you bother to look. I am not going to do the research for you (remind you something you said?).
Post by: ZenAgent on January 13, 2007, 02:25:21 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I think you have it backwards, I have spoken to, listened and agreed with many kids that have gone thru the program especially from ASR. You are wrong again? What seems to be denied here on Fornits is that many kids are helped by these programs. I admit that some kids don?t do well but it is you and many here that continuously keep your eyes shut to the fact that kids benefit.
Kids die, too. So where's the middle ground for us, Who? Are you one of those "So what if some kids die, the program saved mine from prison or death" types?
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 02:28:51 PM
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
Several times, The Who has decried the safety record of the public school system. He makes it sound like anarchy reigns in the public schools and so we should all ship our kids off to a program where they will safe.
Fact: Children are safer at school than at any other time. They are statistically more likely to be the victim of crime or violence (including murder) at home or in the community than they are at school. You can find several documented sources for this FACT if you bother to look. I am not going to do the research for you (remind you something you said?).
It may be safer, but is it safe.? I think we know how safe the schools are these days for suicide and drugs and if your facts hold up and they are less safe in their community then getting the kids out of both for a short term if they are "At Risk" might be benificial to some of them?
I think we some how came to the same conclusion..
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2007, 02:38:20 PM
Luckily the creepy absurdness of advocating imprisoning youth wetheror not theyve commited a crime or have problems until "its safe" is apparent to anyone who is literate.
Please dont respond to this man anymore. He is just distracting from the Carlbrook thread
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2007, 02:40:07 PM
Post by: Deborah on January 13, 2007, 02:41:46 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteDon't weedle around on this and use your "story" like it's the only one. You seem to be blind to everything else except the experience you claim to have had. Anyone else's hellish time spent in a program is dismissed by you.
I think you have it backwards, I have spoken to, listened and agreed with many kids that have gone thru the program especially from ASR. You are wrong again? What seems to be denied here on Fornits is that many kids are helped by these programs. I admit that some kids don?t do well but it is you and many here that continuously keep your eyes shut to the fact that kids benefit.
Yeh, like your's, right? And like Aspen gave you access to all their attendees. I've seen you talk to a few kids here and claim that they are lying or grossly exaggerating, with no proof to base your comment on.
Who are you really?
What kind of 'parent' would, two years after the fact, be defending a program that admittedly didn't work for their child?
Exactly how do you profit from promoting Aspen programs?
Are you one of their Regional Marketing people?
Back to your personal 'success' story. You've claimed to not care that your daughter smoked pot after the program, that you were most concerned about her education. So you stick her in a lock-down where she is forced to get some quasi-education, then she bolts post-program and doesn't attend college, and doesn't talk to you for two years.
How do you consider any of that to be remotely 'successful' based on what you've stated that you wanted for her?
What YOU wanted for her, clearly is not what she wanted.
Teens will arrive at autonomy, despite their parents best attempts to interrupt it.
They have an internal drive toward autonomy which frequently puts them in conflict with a controlling parent. In addition to the normal confusion, there is a sense of betrayal. They can betray themselves by denying their own internal drives to live and learn, or they are forced with betraying their control freak parents.
The more controlling you are, the further you push him/her away. That's when you see excessive rebellion... aka ODD, abuse of substances, and all the other labels and problems program parents fear.
You, and the industry at large, have failed to show HOW the industry works. What most at Fornits say is that YES, a child can appear to have change. The program can definitely alter the kids behavior. But, HOW? And do the means justify the end. The more that's uncovered about the industry, the answer is a resoundingly, NO.
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2007, 02:50:29 PM
Post by: ZenAgent on January 13, 2007, 02:59:06 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 02:59:48 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteDon't weedle around on this and use your "story" like it's the only one. You seem to be blind to everything else except the experience you claim to have had. Anyone else's hellish time spent in a program is dismissed by you.
I think you have it backwards, I have spoken to, listened and agreed with many kids that have gone thru the program especially from ASR. You are wrong again? What seems to be denied here on Fornits is that many kids are helped by these programs. I admit that some kids don?t do well but it is you and many here that continuously keep your eyes shut to the fact that kids benefit.
Yeh, like your's, right? And like Aspen gave you access to all their attendees. I've seen you talk to a few kids here and claim that they are lying or grossly exaggerating, with no proof to base your comment on.
Who are you really?
What kind of 'parent' would, two years after the fact, be defending a program that admittedly didn't work for their child?
Exactly how do you profit from promoting Aspen programs?
Are you one of their Regional Marketing people?
Back to your personal 'success' story. You've claimed to not care that your daughter smoked pot after the program, that you were most concerned about her education. So you stick her in a lock-down where she is forced to get some quasi-education, then she bolts post-program and doesn't attend college, and doesn't talk to you for two years.
How do you consider any of that to be remotely 'successful' based on what you've stated that you wanted for her?
What YOU wanted for her, clearly is not what she wanted.
Teens will arrive at autonomy, despite their parents best attempts to interrupt it.
They have an internal drive toward autonomy which frequently puts them in conflict with a controlling parent. In addition to the normal confusion, there is a sense of betrayal. They can betray themselves by denying their own internal drives to live and learn, or they are forced with betraying their control freak parents.
The more controlling you are, the further you push him/her away. That's when you see excessive rebellion... aka ODD, abuse of substances, and all the other labels and problems program parents fear.
You, and the industry at large, have failed to show HOW the industry works. What most at Fornits say is that YES, a child can appear to have change. The program can definitely alter the kids behavior. But, HOW? And do the means justify the end. The more that's uncovered about the industry, the answer is a resoundingly, NO.
She didnt leave at all post ASR. She went out and experienced the stuff she missed and partied a little with her old friends for a few weeks , came home every night and then settled down, finish ed her schooling. She is 21 now and doing fine.
Post by: Deborah on January 13, 2007, 02:59:53 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""Several times, The Who has decried the safety record of the public school system. He makes it sound like anarchy reigns in the public schools and so we should all ship our kids off to a program where they will safe.
Fact: Children are safer at school than at any other time. They are statistically more likely to be the victim of crime or violence (including murder) at home or in the community than they are at school. You can find several documented sources for this FACT if you bother to look. I am not going to do the research for you (remind you something you said?).
It may be safer, but is it safe.? I think we know how safe the schools are these days for suicide and drugs and if your facts hold up and they are less safe in their community then getting the kids out of both for a short term if they are "At Risk" might be benificial to some of them?
I think we some how came to the same conclusion..
That's it, you're an industry robot. They overhauled your operating system this summer dumbing you down, and also deleting some files in the process.
We've had the discussion about suicides/homicides at schools vs programs. You continue to fear monger when suicide rates have been dropping for a decade. 1 per Million S/H at school vs 1 in 2,300 at programs. Adverse drug events have declined as well. Do you live in constant terror? Or would you have others do so?
Excerpts on ASRs Effectiveness:
*Families arrive at the Academy at Swift River so ready to get their unruly child out of the house that few ask for statistics demonstrating a successful track record. Good thing. The school, located in a former dairy, is run by a for-profit company and does not compile such figures.
*One day, a student has an apparent breakthrough in therapy. Soon after, she's having sex with a classmate in the bathroom.
*One unorthodox punishment is to withhold spices ? including salt ? from students' food.
*Swift River revolves around ritual, yet the staff struggles, and sometimes fails, to keep order. The intensity of the work leads to burnout. One beloved teacher is later spotted by a former student working in a New York deli.
-And as Oz Girl reported, one staff said the only good thing about ASR is the kids.
*The only misfit in this well-crafted book is the title: It's unclear what it takes to pull these kids through. Counselors acknowledge some would outgrow their problems without Swift River. And one kid who absorbs all the nurturing Swift River can provide still ends up dead of an overdose.
Post by: Deborah on January 13, 2007, 03:07:36 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
No one comes to the same concluscion as you Who. You continue to somehow ignore that these TBS's are more dangerous than public schools and the kids home communities.
That's a technique he picked up in seminar. All good sales people know and use it. Just doesn't get past the bullshit detector here.
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 03:09:05 PM
Quote
We've had the discussion about suicides/homicides at schools vs programs. You continue to fear monger when suicide rates have been dropping for a decade. 1 per Million S/H at school vs 1 in 2,300 at programs
I dont think you were able to produce one suicide that took place at a TBS if I recall correctly.....
Post by: Deborah on January 13, 2007, 03:10:02 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
She didnt leave at all post ASR. She went out and experienced the stuff she missed and partied a little with her old friends for a few weeks , came home every night and then settled down, finish ed her schooling. She is 21 now and doing fine.
Which lie are we to believe? You previously stated that she split for NY and didn't talk to you for 2 years, and didn't continue with school. I assumed you meant college.
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2007, 03:11:26 PM
Does she count?
Post by: ZenAgent on January 13, 2007, 03:12:52 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteWe've had the discussion about suicides/homicides at schools vs programs. You continue to fear monger when suicide rates have been dropping for a decade. 1 per Million S/H at school vs 1 in 2,300 at programs
I dont think you were able to produce one suicide that took place at a TBS if I recall correctly.....
Lawsuits mount against Spring Creek Lodge
by John S. Adams
Missoula Independent
November 23, 2006
On Oct. 7, 2004, just days before her 17th birthday, Karlye Anne Newman slipped into a bathroom at Spring Creek Lodge Academy?a behavior modification boarding school outside Thompson Falls?and hanged herself in a stall with her sweatshirt.
The Sanders County Sheriff?s Department investigated Newman?s death, found no signs of foul play, and ruled it a suicide.
The Montana Department of Public Health and Human Services (DPHHS) also investigated Newman?s death. As a result of that investigation, a Montana PBS documentary recently revealed, DPHHS filed a child abuse and neglect complaint against Cameron and Chaffin Pullan, the twin brothers who own and operate Spring Creek Lodge. The case was ultimately dismissed, and due to a state law designed to protect juvenile victims of abuse, it remains sealed from public scrutiny. As a result, few details about DPHHS? investigation or the facts surrounding Newman?s death have been revealed to the public.
Some of those facts may soon surface in court now that Karlye?s mother, Judith Newman, has filed a lawsuit against Spring Creek Lodge and the Pullans. Filed Nov. 6, the complaint alleges wrongful death, negligence, breach of contract and fraud on behalf of the school and its directors. It?s the third in a string of lawsuits filed this year naming Spring Creek Lodge as a defendant.
In March, former Spring Creek Lodge student Jonathan Herrick filed a lawsuit in Sanders County District Court alleging negligence and breach of contract by Spring Creek Lodge. Herrick?s suit claims Spring Creek?s inadequate staffing and oversight policies led to repeated physical and psychological assaults against him during the time he was a student there. The five-page complaint doesn?t detail the alleged abuses, other than to say that Herrick ?suffered serious physical, mental and emotional injuries? while at Spring Creek. Polson attorney James Manley, lead counsel on both the Herrick and Newman lawsuits, declined to comment specifically on either case.
Additionally, in October Spring Creek was added to a long list of defendants in a lawsuit filed in federal district court in Utah. That suit alleges negligence, fraud, breach of contract, battery, assault, false imprisonment and racketeering violations?among others?on behalf of the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (widely known as WWASPS) and its associated programs, which until June included Spring Creek Lodge. The 36-page complaint currently lists 27 plaintiffs, though Dallas, Texas attorney Windle Turley said he expects to add ?many more? to the suit in the coming months. Turley said he couldn?t comment on which of the complaint?s allegations pertain specifically to Spring Creek Lodge.
At press time the two Montana lawsuits had not yet been served. Spring Creek Program Director Mike Chism said Nov. 20 that Spring Creek officials weren?t aware of them and thus declined to comment. As for the Utah suit, Chism said, three plaintiffs are former Spring Creek students, though he declined to identify which three. He also said the three students had been enrolled in other WWASPS programs either prior to, or after leaving, Spring Creek.
?The lawsuit is really vague,? Chism said, noting that the complaint doesn?t specify whether any of the alleged crimes were supposed to have occurred at Spring Creek.
The Newman lawsuit, however, is more specific, and mirrors many of the allegations DPHHS initially made against the Pullans, as reported by Montana PBS.
According to the Newman lawsuit, Spring Creek?s program ?was not designed or operated to provide quality or even adequate care? and the defendants ?planned and operated Spring Creek Lodge Academy in such a manner that physical, educational, mental or emotional harm was consistently and foreseeably caused to the children at Spring Creek, including Karlye Newman.?
Karlye?s mother alleges that Spring Creek staff concealed the fact that Karlye was not progressing well in the program and that she had deteriorated physically, mentally and emotionally in the months she was enrolled at Spring Creek. Judith claims her daughter expressed ?self loathing, hatred of her life there, depression and despair,? and that Karlye made repeated statements that she was going to kill herself, but that those statements were ignored by Spring Creek staff.
According to the Montana PBS documentary ?Who?s Watching the Kids,? (which can be viewed online at http://www.montanapbs.org/WhosWatchingTheKids (http://www.montanapbs.org/WhosWatchingTheKids)), DPHHS charged that Cameron and Chaffin Pullan, as officials of the school, neglected Karlye when she became suicidal by not providing her adequate therapy. ?Who?s Watching the Kids?? also reported that DPHHS alleged that Spring Creek employees placed Karlye in solitary confinement for periods of hours, sometimes days, ?damaging her mentally.? Finally, according to the documentary, the department alleged that Spring Creek?s method for keeping track of students was inadequate in that it left Karlye alone long enough to commit suicide.
A DPHHS hearings examiner initially dismissed the department?s complaint on the basis that 1) DPPHS lacked the legal authority to regulate the school; for that reason, the department can?t declare Spring Creek?s rules and regulations inadequate, and 2) the examiner didn?t believe DPHHS could prove its allegations of abuse and neglect. A district court judge upheld the hearings examiner?s ruling, and DPHHS appealed to the Montana Supreme Court before ultimately withdrawing the administrative charges.
In a statement issued by the school following Karlye Newman?s death, Spring Creek officials claimed that ?SCLA [Spring Creek Lodge Academy] was acutely aware of the girl?s fragility and had placed her on ?high risk? observation. After showing signs of improvement, the 16-year-old student was recently removed from high risk after consultation with the student?s counselor, the assistant clinical director and four staff members who had worked closely with her.?
But Judith Newman claims the staff never sought or conducted a competent suicide evaluation for Karlye and then failed to take appropriate steps to monitor, supervise and protect the teen.
According to the complaint, Karlye was missing for more than an hour before she was discovered hanging in the bathroom.
?Defendants made no attempt to look for her, or otherwise protect her,? the complaint states. ?When a staff member found Karlye hanging, the untrained and unqualified staff member ran out in panic. Defendants failed to provide immediate and necessary aid which might have saved Karlye?s life.?
Manley said he expects the Herrick and Newman lawsuits to go to trial sometime next year. Turley says it could be years before the Utah lawsuit goes to a jury trial.
Post by: Deborah on January 13, 2007, 03:18:06 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteWe've had the discussion about suicides/homicides at schools vs programs. You continue to fear monger when suicide rates have been dropping for a decade. 1 per Million S/H at school vs 1 in 2,300 at programs
I dont think you were able to produce one suicide that took place at a TBS if I recall correctly.....
For the year we were looking at. But, there have definitely been suicides at programs. Fewer suicides, the majority are homicides- unpunished murders. And many suicide attempts, such as the one at ASR.
Until programs are properly regulated, we won't have the hard data. The programs don't want that data out in the public, it would show beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are basically over-priced babysitting facilities, warehousing kids until they mature a bit. Ironically, some program parents have even embraced that last comment. It's just fine in their minds to have their child involuntarily incarcerated and held against their will while they 'mature a bit'. The parent sleeps better and needs less Prozac.
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 03:20:09 PM
I am the first to agree that it is only a matter of time before a child dies or is raped in a TBS. It happens everywhere, schools, home, church, anywhere kids are found they will die and get hurt. The question is where are they safer, when they are at risk?
Post by: RobertBruce on January 13, 2007, 03:21:56 PM
Who honey do you really really think there's only been one?
Are you really so naive?
Do you honestly feel because you've never heard of these things they never happened?
Post by: RobertBruce on January 13, 2007, 03:24:09 PM
I'll keep looking for you Who.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 13, 2007, 03:24:14 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on January 13, 2007, 03:27:16 PM
May 2002 17 year old girl hanged herself in her closet at the Deveroux Center in Denver
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 03:27:41 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Ryan Lewis age 14 Allredge Academy West VA 2001.
Who honey do you really really think there's only been one?
Are you really so naive?
Do you honestly feel because you've never heard of these things they never happened?
Yes as I look back, you are right, the time frame that we have comparable statistics on public high schools was July 1999 thru June of 2000.
So we were comparing this time frams as a snapshot. I will try to dig it up.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 13, 2007, 03:30:19 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on January 13, 2007, 03:32:17 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on January 13, 2007, 03:33:45 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on January 13, 2007, 03:35:03 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on January 13, 2007, 03:37:17 PM
Until then you are ordered to shut the fuck up.
http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsam.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsam.asp)
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 03:40:18 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Not interested in public high schools. Wrong forum. Kids are put in these programs to "save" them, not lead them to suicide.
I think the question was "How safe are kids in TBS vs public Highschool". They currently have data on Public schools' violent deaths and suicide during the timeframe July 1999 to June 2000. I believe the TBS faired better in both categories.
I would actually expect the TBS to have a high rate because the cross section or population in the TBS is more concentrated with at risk kids than in a highschool where you have a full spectrum of kids.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 13, 2007, 03:41:05 PM
Post by: ZenAgent on January 13, 2007, 03:44:58 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""Not interested in public high schools. Wrong forum. Kids are put in these programs to "save" them, not lead them to suicide.
I think the question was "How safe are kids in TBS vs public Highschool". They currently have data on Public schools' violent deaths and suicide during the timeframe July 1999 to June 2000. I believe the TBS faired better in both categories.
I would actually expect the TBS to have a high rate because the cross section or population in the TBS is more concentrated with at risk kids than in a highschool where you have a full spectrum of kids.
They should be absolutely safe, shouldn't they? I mean, you're saving them from death or jail. There's constant supervision at a TBS, I don't see how you can compare a high school to a program.
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 03:48:02 PM
Elementary and secondary schools
At School ---21 school associated Deaths (16 Homicides,6 suicides)
Away from school (2,124 Homicides, 1,922 Suicides)
Note: Data were drawn from a number of data sets to enable comparisons of homicides and suicides at school and away from school. Data for school-associated violent deaths during the 1999-2000.
National Center for Educational Statistics
Time frame: July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 (52,000,000 students)
At School --- 21 school associated Deaths (16 Homicides .00003%, 6 suicides .000012%)
Away from school (2,124 Homicides 0.0041%, 1,922 Suicides 0.0037%)
And estimated at a population of 30,000 kids at a TBS that year.
So At TBS?s the results would be:
At School --- 0 (0 Homicides, 0 suicide)
Away from School ? 1 (0 Homicides 0%, 1 Suicide 0.0033%)
So from a TBS vs National average the TBS?s had much lower rates of Suicides and Homicides for the same time period ?at school? and about the same ?away from school.?
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2007, 03:50:52 PM
Post by: Deborah on January 13, 2007, 03:54:23 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""Not interested in public high schools. Wrong forum. Kids are put in these programs to "save" them, not lead them to suicide.
I think the question was "How safe are kids in TBS vs public Highschool". They currently have data on Public schools' violent deaths and suicide during the timeframe July 1999 to June 2000. I believe the TBS faired better in both categories.
I would actually expect the TBS to have a high rate because the cross section or population in the TBS is more concentrated with at risk kids than in a highschool where you have a full spectrum of kids.
As usual, you're misrepresenting the facts.
Where's the justification for paying $6000 a month to 'increase' your kids change of being harmed- one of the warnings against the aggregation of 'troubled kids'. No one in their right mind would do so. They certainly wouldn't refinance their homes, take out loans, cash in 401K to send their kid somewhere to be abused and neglected, if they had an inkling of what the real industry stats are.
Those stats aren't collected by any agency for the public's use. Thanks to sites like ISAC, we are beginning to have a good database, but these lists do not include the near-deaths, violence, sexual assaults, injuries and accidents.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 13, 2007, 04:00:10 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 04:02:45 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""ZenAgent""Not interested in public high schools. Wrong forum. Kids are put in these programs to "save" them, not lead them to suicide.
I think the question was "How safe are kids in TBS vs public Highschool". They currently have data on Public schools' violent deaths and suicide during the timeframe July 1999 to June 2000. I believe the TBS faired better in both categories.
I would actually expect the TBS to have a high rate because the cross section or population in the TBS is more concentrated with at risk kids than in a highschool where you have a full spectrum of kids.
They should be absolutely safe, shouldn't they? I mean, you're saving them from death or jail. There's constant supervision at a TBS, I don't see how you can compare a high school to a program.
Yes, I agree, in theory but not all kids can be reached. If you took a population of "At Risk" for say suicide and then a random cut from the public sector. We would expect the "At risk " group to have a higher rate. You take this "At Risk" group and treat them and supervise them you would see a decrease but I believe you would still see kids who could not be helped.
So yes it would show to be safer statistically.
Post by: Deborah on January 13, 2007, 04:04:12 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
So from a TBS vs National average the TBS?s had much lower rates of Suicides and Homicides for the same time period ?at school? and about the same ?away from school.?
I'm not going back there with you so you can twist and turn the information to your liking. What's relevant to this discussion is that there were 15 kids who died in programs during that time frame. Kids whose parents were assured that while they (the parents) couldn't keep them safe 24/7, the program could. That's, after-all, how they justify their outrageous fees.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 13, 2007, 04:08:25 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Yes, I agree, in theory but not all kids can be reached. If you took a population of "At Risk" for say suicide and then a random cut from the public sector. We would expect the "At risk " group to have a higher rate. You take this "At Risk" group and treat them and supervise them you would see a decrease but I believe you would still see kids who could not be helped.
So yes it would show to be safer statistically.
These "unreachable" kids are acceptable losses, then? The facility was paid to keep them safe. They need to be held liable for these "unreachable" kids. By the way, no kid is unreachable, they're just getting the wrong treatment.
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 04:11:57 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Once again, who, at a TBS the kids are ALWAYS BEING SUPERVISED. TBS and high schools are apples and oranges.
Yes, I understand so if the therapy/teatment didnt work for them or the intense supervison prevented them from taking their life , they would do it the day after the were released and we would start to see a rise in a different data set if this is happening.
Good point....
This data could be collected by ISAC and maybe already is. There is a list that has been started by a fornits poster also.
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 04:14:35 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Yes, I agree, in theory but not all kids can be reached. If you took a population of "At Risk" for say suicide and then a random cut from the public sector. We would expect the "At risk " group to have a higher rate. You take this "At Risk" group and treat them and supervise them you would see a decrease but I believe you would still see kids who could not be helped.
So yes it would show to be safer statistically.
These "unreachable" kids are acceptable losses, then? The facility was paid to keep them safe. They need to be held liable for these "unreachable" kids. By the way, no kid is unreachable, they're just getting the wrong treatment.
Well instead of "Unreachable" lets say "kids that could not be reached" or "were not reached". Unreachable assumes no one could help them and maybe a different intervention may have been more successful for them. So yes lets rephrase that.
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 04:23:20 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""So from a TBS vs National average the TBS?s had much lower rates of Suicides and Homicides for the same time period ?at school? and about the same ?away from school.?
I'm not going back there with you so you can twist and turn the information to your liking. What's relevant to this discussion is that there were 15 kids who died in programs during that time frame. Kids whose parents were assured that while they (the parents) couldn't keep them safe 24/7, the program could. That's, after-all, how they justify their outrageous fees.
Thats okay, Deborah. The direct comparison data we have is violent deaths and suicides. Outside of these data sets there is no comparative data for the public sector. They did not present data for other types of deaths in this time frame. Hopefully future snapshots will be more detailed so we can track this better. and also ISACs data. It is great news that someone is taking the initiative to collect this data on the TBS's end.
Post by: Deborah on January 13, 2007, 04:24:06 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Yes, I agree, in theory but not all kids can be reached. If you took a population of "At Risk" for say suicide and then a random cut from the public sector. We would expect the "At risk " group to have a higher rate. You take this "At Risk" group and treat them and supervise them you would see a decrease but I believe you would still see kids who could not be helped. So yes it would show to be safer statistically.
That's right, not all kids can be "reached" at TBSs cause One-Size-Doesn't-Fit-All. The methods are not evidence-based and in fact, the kids are more likely to pick up more 'risky' behavior from their peers.
Since when does denying condiments 'treat' any 'disorder'? That's about how ridiculous this whole scam is.
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 04:31:46 PM
Quote
That's right, not all kids can be "reached" at TBSs cause One-Size-Doesn't-Fit-All.
That is exactly why the parents need to do their homework first and see if the particular school is a good fit...get professional opinions look at more than one, talk to other parents. There isn?t a 100% guarantee, at any price. This goes for therapy, hospitals, strategic planning with "in-home" remedies etc. but one should try to find the best chance of your child being reached and helped. Doing nothing should not be an option ,ever.
Post by: AtomicAnt on January 13, 2007, 04:36:25 PM
Oh, and if you think your teen is 'at risk' (whatever that means), do not hesitate to call the escorts. They at so much risk living at home and playing in public playgrounds that you have no choice but to incarcerate them to protect them. The Who said so.
Quite clearly, The Who is out of touch with reality.
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 04:41:21 PM
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
Quick, Everyone pull your children out of school! The Who has informed us that schools are not safe. We should not send any of our kids to school. If we do, they will be killed, or raped, or use drugs!
Oh, and if you think your teen is 'at risk' (whatever that means), do not hesitate to call the escorts. They at so much risk living at home and playing in public playgrounds that you have no choice but to incarcerate them to protect them. The Who said so.
Quite clearly, The Who is out of touch with reality.
Nah?. I think someone mentioned that statistically the public schools have gotten safer over the past few years. I haven?t seen the data but it is encouraging.
The numbers do seem daunting, though, don?t they? I was surprised too
Post by: AtomicAnt on January 13, 2007, 04:41:49 PM
Post by: ZenAgent on January 13, 2007, 04:47:10 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteThat's right, not all kids can be "reached" at TBSs cause One-Size-Doesn't-Fit-All.
That is exactly why the parents need to do their homework first and see if the particular school is a good fit...get professional opinions look at more than one, talk to other parents. There isn?t a 100% guarantee, at any price. This goes for therapy, hospitals, strategic planning with "in-home" remedies etc. but one should try to find the best chance of your child being reached and helped. Doing nothing should not be an option ,ever.
From personal experience: programs lie. They will make a "fit". I don't know who you go to for professional opinions, but sailing the seas of ed cons is a risky business. Other parents...I question that, too. What worked for them may end up causing my kid to commit suicide. Too "one-size-fits-all" again.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 13, 2007, 05:06:15 PM
Also I'd like to see a link to where you got your numbers on deaths and homicides for public schools. Until you do your stats are meaningless and false.
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2007, 06:13:50 PM
Then, we can rest easy.
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2007, 06:32:23 PM
Quote
What's relevant to this discussion is that there were 15 kids who died in programs during that time frame.
Which effectively means that they were killed by staff.
Post by: Oz girl on January 13, 2007, 06:49:52 PM
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
Doing nothing worked just fine for me, and plenty of other risk taking teens who now in their 40s like me.
Doing nothing also worked for a relative of mine. This kid took a fair few drugs, rejected the family faith and got kicked out of private school. TBS was not an option and at 28 this guy is not dead insane or in jail. He never went through a phase of not talking to his loved ones for years. He never went on to university but if this is the issue for parents then they need to ask themselves whose dreams they are pursuing!
Post by: TheWho on January 13, 2007, 08:18:45 PM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""Doing nothing worked just fine for me, and plenty of other risk taking teens who now in their 40s like me.
Doing nothing also worked for a relative of mine. This kid took a fair few drugs, rejected the family faith and got kicked out of private school. TBS was not an option and at 28 this guy is not dead insane or in jail. He never went through a phase of not talking to his loved ones for years. He never went on to university but if this is the issue for parents then they need to ask themselves whose dreams they are pursuing!
Thanks, I can appreciate that. Almost all my friends growing up are not dead or in jail (I had one friend who hung himself in high school). I dont know of anyone of them who went away to a TBS. Family upbringing was enough for them as it is for 99% of all kids. Its those very few that need a little bit extra help that they cant get at home or by local services. Not every kid that is in trouble or "At Risk" needs to go to a TBS. I don?t think anyone is advocating that. A TBS is a last resort, when all other efforts have failed.....I know many believe that all these kids are there because they smoked pot once, take it from me, its a bunch of crap. Many of these kids are there because they need help. I am sure some parents over react and make a poor choice, but this is an anomaly.
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2007, 10:17:11 PM
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 13, 2007, 10:46:15 PM
Post by: Oz girl on January 13, 2007, 11:16:28 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Thanks, I can appreciate that. Almost all my friends growing up are not dead or in jail (I had one friend who hung himself in high school). I dont know of anyone of them who went away to a TBS. Family upbringing was enough for them as it is for 99% of all kids. Its those very few that need a little bit extra help that they cant get at home or by local services. Not every kid that is in trouble or "At Risk" needs to go to a TBS. I don?t think anyone is advocating that. A TBS is a last resort, when all other efforts have failed.....I know many believe that all these kids are there because they smoked pot once, take it from me, its a bunch of crap. Many of these kids are there because they need help. I am sure some parents over react and make a poor choice, but this is an anomaly.
Well again who look @ the ASR kids in what it takes to pull me through. It was you who recommended this book to me for balance afterall. Tyrone was not in trouble to the extent that he needed intense therapy, he could have done well at a small local private school which keeps in close contact with the parents. They clearly preyed on his mothers fear that he would grow up to be like his dad. Bianca was also not necessarily in deep trouble either. Her dad never even tried a female therapist at home!!! Instrad of accepting her boyfriend and setting out some kind of ground rules he panicked, helping to cause some kind of "romeo and Juliet" hysteria and shipped her off. Or DJ given that this kid had not touched drugs and was too imature to have been sexually active how was he in the desperate 1%. What this book highlighted to me was that amongst kids who are really lost and being penalised for it, there are also pretty bog standard kids who dont need this kind of "treatment" at all!
Post by: ZenAgent on January 13, 2007, 11:38:31 PM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""Doing nothing worked just fine for me, and plenty of other risk taking teens who now in their 40s like me.
Doing nothing also worked for a relative of mine. This kid took a fair few drugs, rejected the family faith and got kicked out of private school. TBS was not an option and at 28 this guy is not dead insane or in jail. He never went through a phase of not talking to his loved ones for years. He never went on to university but if this is the issue for parents then they need to ask themselves whose dreams they are pursuing!
I drank from the age of 16 to 30, spent most of my twenties in a Bukowski haze of menial jobs, bad relationships and toilet hugging mornings. Ironically, I sobered up while working railroad cars at a bourbon distillery. I have friends from high school who are dead or in jail, we drank and dabbled in drugs and maintained high G.P.A's and were great jocks(except my bookworm ass). No one would have thought we had problems. It was only midway through college that the two I'm thinking of fell apart. One's dead, one's in prison for assault and battery and getting four DUI's in one month. He got out briefly and beat his ex-girlfriend while drunk and went back to prison.
Dr. Huffine of A START has written that high school addiction is rare. It might start there, but doesn't become addiction until considerably later. Normative adolescent behavior involves experimentation and some acting out. The problem I see is people my age catch their kids engaging in "risky" behavior and freak out, and if they can afford it they send their kids to a program. Most of these parents experimented, so why the double standard for the kids? Maybe the parents are unfamiliar with the new recreational drugs like Ecstacy (they shoudn't be - any parents prone to experimentation back in the day probably experimented with MDMA and don't realize it's Ecstacy)
These TBS/programs are expensive, and the affluent don't want to have their reputation and standing in the community being besmirched by Junior getting busted for having a pocketful of Oxycontin or Xanax. (nevermind the kid probably swiped them off Dad) So, they send the kids off to a "reputable" program, the more expensive the better, and the neighbors admire them for "doing the best" for Junior. The kid might show signs of improvement upon returning home, but without the prison-like structure and isolation of the program the world is in front of them again, like a candy store full of delights.
My daughter picked up deviant peer habits at Peninsula Village - she discovered cutting from her peers, a practice I was blissfully unfamiliar with. She also heard stories during group session that made her want to try cocaine, or meth. She was forced to go to AA meetings Our girl had no substance abuse problems. She had smoked pot twice with her older brother and drank once, at her biological father's house with beer he bought for her and two other underage kids. They had a case of beer and ended up violently sick.
Now that she's home, the cutting stopped. It was done out of frustration at being trapped in a place she knew she didn't belong in. After her mom was banned from face-to-face therapy sessions for photographing an improper restraint, contact between the two was cut-off: no face-to-face contact, no phone sessions. The staff told our girl she was on "mom restriction" indefinitely. Four months, until legal pressure forced PV to let her go. PV's explanation was that mother and daughter were in "collusion to undermine treatment". PV couldn't accept that perhaps it was our daughter's anger at being separated from her mom while being forced to have family sessions with her real father, who she had been estranged from for over three years. He didn't know his daughter at all. Dad's role in family therapy ended when his daughter angrily ended a session with him after he "called her out", she vowing to never attend a session with him again.
Long story, but some kids are sent to TBS/WTF/hellcamps for reasons that don't exist. I worry these are the kids most likely to harm themselves, because they feel betrayed and they know they're different from the violent and extremely disturbed kids around them.
Our girl's back, healthy, happy and involved in some good local therapy. She's expressed an urge to get one of the girls still at PV out, because the girl doesn't belong there and needs to be removed before she ends up "damaged".
I'm not suggesting Darwin's survival of the fittest for troubled teens, although theWho seems to take that view. All I'm saying is if you love your kids, you'll watch them and try to talk to them if you're concerned. If it looks like a problem is present, get a counselor or psychologist and be involved with your child during the sessions. There's also community based treatment, which is considerably cheaper than a TBS and doesn't require the child to be ripped from the home or school. The treatment team comes to the family home, three times or more a week. Wraparound treatment not only helps the child, they work with the parents and give them better parenting and communicative skills. If you really want to help your kid and ego-free enough to accept advice on how to improve your parenting, Wraparound treatment is for your family. If you can't accept any fault for your kids problems and only want the troublemakers gone, there's a program waiting to make false promises to you and take your money.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 14, 2007, 12:04:27 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Thanks, I can appreciate that. Almost all my friends growing up are not dead or in jail (I had one friend who hung himself in high school). I dont know of anyone of them who went away to a TBS. Family upbringing was enough for them as it is for 99% of all kids. Its those very few that need a little bit extra help that they cant get at home or by local services. Not every kid that is in trouble or "At Risk" needs to go to a TBS. I don?t think anyone is advocating that. A TBS is a last resort, when all other efforts have failed.....I know many believe that all these kids are there because they smoked pot once, take it from me, its a bunch of crap. Many of these kids are there because they need help. I am sure some parents over react and make a poor choice, but this is an anomaly.
Bullshit. Just take a look at any of the so called assessment tests on any of these places websites. It's ridiculous. If your child has two or more of the following, they may need treatment. :roll: Then they go on to describe just about every single teen in America.
Within the last six months, has your child:
Had any changes in behavior and / or mood? (i.e. sad, angry, withdrawn, etc.)
Exhibited depressive symptoms? (i.e. weight loss, weight gain, excessive sleep, etc.)
Had problems getting along with others?
Do you suspect that your child has used drugs or alcohol?
Has your child disregarded family rules and parental guidance?
Has you child been able to escape consequences due to the ability to manipulate people and situations?
Had problems in school? (i.e. poor grades, challenging authority, etc.)
Intentionally frightened others?
Made threatening statements in writing?
Implied that they may have a plan for violent or suicidal behavior?
Implied that they have identified a target for violence?
Been destructive to property?
They're not aiming for 1% of the population. They want 'em all.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 14, 2007, 12:16:35 AM
Alex's drive for the ultraviolence and crime was there, no attempt had been made to seek it's source, but if he gave into it, he received the consequence of nausea and pain. So, hence the title of Burgess' book: On the outside, a smooth, healthy looking individual; inside, a clockwork of gears and mechanical processes that kept Alex "civilized".
As sick as it sounds, a lot of parents would have no problem with the Ludovico cure as long as little Alphonse comes back boring and docile. Nevermind the mental schism created within Alphonse by the loss of free will.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 14, 2007, 12:19:19 AM
Post by: Ganja on January 14, 2007, 12:22:39 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Ganja, I actually have to thank you, I had a cause and did what you said I was sent on a mission and picked up the Deluxe edition, sat back and enjoyed myself. I grabbed the Quadrophenia CD also when I was out (haven?t opened it yet). I skipped around a lot for the first hour. I settled into ?My Generation? which was different than the original release as I remember. It ran on for 16 minutes, similar to what I had heard in concert in ?73, they really let Townsend loose on this edition. I caught ?Happy Jack? which I have not heard in years and ?smash the mirror? ? anyway
You're welcome. I was glad when you said you intended to take my advice and treat yourself to one of the best live recordings ever to find its way onto pressed vinyl or optical plastic, not to mention it was created by the group that bears your namesake.
Listen to disc 2 start to finish. They pretty much perform Tommy in its entirety (though the order's a little jumbled) in one amazing chunk. It's beyond classic rock; Live at Leeds is pure genius. I will have to listen to the LP again sometime soon for an in-depth comparison.... There is like twice as much material on those two CDs as there was on the original album release.... pretty amazing shit for 1970!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_at_Leeds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_at_Leeds)
Post by: ZenAgent on January 14, 2007, 12:23:58 AM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Thanks, I can appreciate that. Almost all my friends growing up are not dead or in jail (I had one friend who hung himself in high school). I dont know of anyone of them who went away to a TBS. Family upbringing was enough for them as it is for 99% of all kids. Its those very few that need a little bit extra help that they cant get at home or by local services. Not every kid that is in trouble or "At Risk" needs to go to a TBS. I don?t think anyone is advocating that. A TBS is a last resort, when all other efforts have failed.....I know many believe that all these kids are there because they smoked pot once, take it from me, its a bunch of crap. Many of these kids are there because they need help. I am sure some parents over react and make a poor choice, but this is an anomaly.
Bullshit. Just take a look at any of the so called assessment tests on any of these places websites. It's ridiculous. If your child has two or more of the following, they may need treatment. :roll: Then they go on to describe just about every single teen in America.
Within the last six months, has your child:
Had any changes in behavior and / or mood? (i.e. sad, angry, withdrawn, etc.)
Exhibited depressive symptoms? (i.e. weight loss, weight gain, excessive sleep, etc.)
Had problems getting along with others?
Do you suspect that your child has used drugs or alcohol?
Has your child disregarded family rules and parental guidance?
Has you child been able to escape consequences due to the ability to manipulate people and situations?
Had problems in school? (i.e. poor grades, challenging authority, etc.)
Intentionally frightened others?
Made threatening statements in writing?
Implied that they may have a plan for violent or suicidal behavior?
Implied that they have identified a target for violence?
Been destructive to property?
They're not aiming for 1% of the population. They want 'em all.
Shit, they seem to want me, too. Peninsula Village caused me to exhibit most of those signs, except the problems in school. I'm 40 years old and wasn't even in PV, but my dealings with them brought a lot of these "warning signs" out in me while working to get my girl out.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 14, 2007, 12:49:15 AM
http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/d ... 64898.html (http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/do-you-want-to-help-overweight-kids-or-just-insult-them/2007/01/07/1168104864898.html)
Do you want to help overweight kids, or just insult them?
January 8, 2007
Insults or encouragement?
We need a positive message to give children the gift of good health, writes Leslie Cannold.
FAT camps, prohibitions on junk food advertising, bans on sugary drinks in school canteens, Medicare subsidies for private weight-loss programs, chair-free classrooms, food pyramids. School weigh-ins, public service announcements telling kids to take more exercise, public hospital weight management clinics for the young. Bulging childhood waistlines as risk factors for diabetes, heart disease, escalating health care costs and social exclusion. Childhood obesity as lifestyle choice, disease, biological destiny or the result of parental ignorance, sloth or permissiveness. And in 2006, a three-fold increase in the number of Melbourne children ? some as young as 10 ? admitted to hospital with eating disorders resulting from their morbid fear of fat.
And of winding up unloveable and unloved?
Surely, I am not the only person who has noticed that not only has our current approach to the "youth obesity epidemic"("youth out of control epidemic") been ineffective in reducing our children's collective girth, but also violates the first-order principle of medical ethics that above all, we must do no harm.
How does calling our kids tubby harm them? These days everyone knows that "fat" is more than a physical description of body mass, but a negative assessment of physical attractiveness and moral worth. Despite protests outside the White House by overweight Americans holding placards insisting that "fat is not a four-letter word", children today are well aware of the connection in the popular mind between the generously waisted and the indiscreet, the lazy, the pitiful, the asexual and the wildly out of control. Cultural researchers say it is no coincidence that in times of sexual permissiveness and consumerist plenty, thinness is idealised for representing virtue, self-denial and self-control.
Children's bodies change rapidly right up to their early 20s, with the pre-teen and teen years critical moments for the development of self-identity and self-esteem. It's hard to imagine a worse time for children to be told their developing bodies are an eyesore and evidence of poor moral character.
Just as damning is the inevitable failure of any behavioural-change approach obsessed with cataloguing and stamping out fat (drugs, sex, anger depression). Behavioural change relies on our feeling good about ourselves, something just as true for children as for adults. The higher the temperature surrounding the moral panic, the worse overweight ("troubled") children are likely to feel about themselves, and the less likely they are to feel worthy of their own efforts to change.
This counterproductive behavioural circularity that begins with low self-esteem is familiar to addiction counsellors, and is no less evident ? should we care to listen ? in the testimony of the overweight. "You get in a vicious circle about losing weight," Diane O'Mara told The Age earlier this year. "You eat the wrong thing, then you feel bad, then you eat more." The nexus between harsh social judgements of the obese (or panic and overreaction to "troubled teen"), their low self-esteem and consequent inability to lose weight (acting out)is summed up by American professor and author Peter Stearns. "If you fail to lose weight(tow the program line, including AA), you are demonstrating you're a bad person. It's a big burden. Faced with this additional pressure, you are even more likely to say 'The hell with it! I'm going to get ice-cream (whatever behavior is freaking out parents). I am such a bad person I need to solace myself.' "
Of course, the poor correlation between negative self-esteem and successful weight loss serves the diet industry. Studies suggest that only when consumers hate their overweight bodies(scared into thinking junior is going to be deadinsaneorinjail), and believe them unattractive, are they motivated to dig deep for the diet products(TBS/RTC) and services worth more than $500 million a year in Australia. As well, the now accepted paradox that dieting makes you fat ensures that the vast majority of consumers will "fail" and ? dragging their bedraggled self-esteem behind them ? return for further expensive but ineffective "therapy".::bangin::
But if insults are counter-productive and hand-wringing is out, what should we be doing? In general terms, we need to stop talking about the depravity of fat, and focus instead on the desirability of good health. Focusing on obesity inevitably leads to "don't" and "shouldn't" messages that problematically posit guilt and counterproductively idealise penitent self-denial. In contrast, promoting good health lends itself to messages of "do" (eat healthy foods) and "dessert" (as in, you deserve it) that connect self-nurture with the bodily well-being necessary to enjoy the good things in life.
Positive messages are also more likely to be effective in promoting behavioural change, and insofar as they focus more on the importance of staying active rather than on what we eat, may even be more consistent with the medical evidence. Paul Campos, professor of law at the University of Colorado and author of The Obesity Myth argues that activity is a better predictor of health than weight and that, "There is no good evidence that significant long-term weight loss is beneficial to health".
We need to speak to our children, and about them, in ways that make our love for them, and approval of the people they are becoming, crystal clear. Teaching them how to nurture themselves by eating healthy food and participating in physical activity they enjoy is the most ethical and effective way for us as parents, and as a society, to offer them the gift of good health.
Dr Leslie Cannold is a Melbourne academic and writer
Post by: Oz girl on January 14, 2007, 01:03:52 AM
I agree with everything this woman says!!!!
Post by: RobertBruce on January 14, 2007, 01:05:21 AM
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 14, 2007, 01:08:55 AM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Shit, they seem to want me, too. Peninsula Village caused me to exhibit most of those signs, except the problems in school. I'm 40 years old and wasn't even in PV, but my dealings with them brought a lot of these "warning signs" out in me while working to get my girl out.
yeah, I can't tell you how man AA meetings I went to that talked about how everyone could benefit from AA and the poor "normies" just didn't understnad how wonderful life could be. :roll: But that's why the developed Al Anon, ACOA and now.....drum roll please.....Adult GRANDCHILDREN of alcoholics. :o Not to mention all the other "anon" groups. It's applied to everything now.
Post by: Deborah on January 14, 2007, 04:00:17 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
And in 2006, a three-fold increase in the number of Melbourne children ? some as young as 10 ? admitted to hospital with eating disorders resulting from their morbid fear of fat.
10 year old obsessed with fat??? I didn't understand this until a step-mom came into the picture who was obsessed with avoiding fat. My sons (both thin and raised on a healthy diet) complained that everything at their dad's was fat-free, that every discussion at mealtime revolved around the dreaded 'fat' and weight loss, measuring, portion control...... That she obsessed about her weight and imposed the same limits on them. Those were her issues and fears and sh0uldn't have been the ever present topic of family discussions.
Ironically, they sent the younger to HLA where he was fed white bread and american cheese sandwiches for two meals a day for the better part of the first four months he was there, this was their 'restrictions' diet- would CEDU call this "bans on healthy food"? Not that the regular diet at HLA was healthy...mostly fried food. He didn't gain weight, he actually lost weight, and became dependent on flonase and claritin.
I've read of other programs where kids (particularly girls) who gain excessive amounts of weight due the the high carb diet they're fed. And have read that the treatment for eating disorders was to force the kid to eat everything on their plate, whether they liked it or not- only creates other eating issues.
Perhaps Aspen will get some referrals for kids exiting TBSs with eating issues, some which they didn't have prior to program.
Quote
Just as damning is the inevitable failure of any behavioural-change approach obsessed with cataloguing and stamping out fat.
Precisely. Fat is a necessary compent of a healthy diet. Excessive fat leads to health problems- which is what overweight is. Eating low-fat can actually contribute to further weight gain, as the body needs to eat things as they are in nature. When you remove the fat, your body has a difficult time metabolizing the food. Fat is there for a reason. The key, moderation, and consuming less saturated fats.
Modern humans consume way too much Omega 6 fat and not nearly enough Omega 3. We should have 1 O3 to 3 O6, The average American diet contains 10-20 times more O6 than O3. Why? Cause they rarely eat dark green veggies, walnuts, oily fish, etc. And taste buds have been conditioned to O6.
I've found it difficult to impossible to teach an old dog new tricks. The key is to provide healthy food for kids, so that is established in childhood. Even if they turn to the SAD diet, they have that reference point and have already acquired a taste for healthy food which can be re-established. For alot of these kids, they have no reference point for eating for health.
I still laugh at my sil's comment when he saw me eating steamed Kale. "What's that, garnish?" Yeh garnish, (laugh) otherwise known as Kale. It's edible and is probably the most healthy thing on the plate at a restaurant.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 14, 2007, 05:13:55 PM
"THEWHO" IS LIKE STEROIDS FOR BULLSHIT AND THREADS THAT ARE A WASTE OF GINGER'S BANDWIDTH AND HARD DISK SPACE!
Post by: TheWho on January 14, 2007, 06:49:25 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
THIS JUST IN:
"THEWHO" IS LIKE STEROIDS FOR BULLSHIT AND THREADS THAT ARE A WASTE OF GINGER'S BANDWIDTH AND HARD DISK SPACE!
Niles of all people! I might accept that from a few here. But I don?t think you have even been associated with any of these places, have you? You have no idea what it is like to be a kid at one of these places or a parent?.Hmmmm and I think before you wrote that you should have looked below your name at ahhhmmmm.. # of posts you have.
You seem to have stepped in it, Analogies I don?t think are your forte.
As far as wasting bandwidth I think we should look at how this is measured. If any of us can add to a balanced discussion or view and add value I think it is worth being put out there for others to read. I know if you were in control, Niles, we would be burning all the books accept the ones you approve.
If everyone agreed with me I don?t feel I would be adding value, you feel the need to be surrounded by people who agree with you, too bad for you.
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2007, 06:53:25 PM
Quote
You have no idea what it is like to be a kid at one of these places
Neither do you. You know what it's like to sit on your ass and pay someone else to do something.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 14, 2007, 07:21:46 PM
Quote
If any of us can add to a balanced discussion or view and add value I think it is worth being put out there for others to read
Since this naturally excludes you can we safely assume that will now shut the fuck up? You add nothing to the conversation because you know nothing. Nor are you interested in learning, something you've proven time and time again. It's about the only thing on here you've ever been able to back up. Speaking of which are you now or ever going to back up the following claims?
Quote
Quote:
Exactly!! So at least we agree the car needs work !! 6 months ago you wouldn?t agree the car needed fixing
Provide the statement I have made which suggest this to be true.
Quote:
My analogy would, yes, a majority of posters, here on Fornits use to suggest that doing nothing was the best course of action for kids who were in trouble.
Provide numbers and statements to prove this claim.
Post by: TheWho on January 14, 2007, 08:50:46 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Thanks, I can appreciate that. Almost all my friends growing up are not dead or in jail (I had one friend who hung himself in high school). I dont know of anyone of them who went away to a TBS. Family upbringing was enough for them as it is for 99% of all kids. Its those very few that need a little bit extra help that they cant get at home or by local services. Not every kid that is in trouble or "At Risk" needs to go to a TBS. I don?t think anyone is advocating that. A TBS is a last resort, when all other efforts have failed.....I know many believe that all these kids are there because they smoked pot once, take it from me, its a bunch of crap. Many of these kids are there because they need help. I am sure some parents over react and make a poor choice, but this is an anomaly.
.
Bullshit. Just take a look at any of the so called assessment tests on any of these places websites. It's ridiculous. If your child has two or more of the following, they may need treatment. :roll: Then they go on to describe just about every single teen in America.
Within the last six months, has your child:
Had any changes in behavior and / or mood? (i.e. sad, angry, withdrawn, etc.)
Exhibited depressive symptoms? (i.e. weight loss, weight gain, excessive sleep, etc.)
Had problems getting along with others?
Do you suspect that your child has used drugs or alcohol?
Has your child disregarded family rules and parental guidance?
Has you child been able to escape consequences due to the ability to manipulate people and situations?
Had problems in school? (i.e. poor grades, challenging authority, etc.)
Intentionally frightened others?
Made threatening statements in writing?
Implied that they may have a plan for violent or suicidal behavior?
Implied that they have identified a target for violence?
Been destructive to property?
They're not aiming for 1% of the population. They want 'em all.
hi anne, Yes, I agree and it is a sales pitch. One thing we need to keep in mind is that these places are in place to make a profit. I don?t think anyone is trying to mislead anyone to this fact, its upfront (almost everyone that has a business puts out a list of warning signs, if they can, to flag prospective customers to purchase their product). They are saying that if your child has a few of these on the list they may need treatment and sure they may. They may need treatment if your child has all of these they may need treatment if they don?t have any. But it seems they are putting out warning signs to raise a flag. Parents aren?t going to be looking at these web sites unless they have concerns. I think if it does anything it may raise awareness that you need to pay attention to, and make you take a second look at, your child and how he/she is doing, and get your child help locally. This isn?t a bad thing?
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2007, 09:30:48 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 14, 2007, 10:07:10 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
You need someone to watch the kids just turn on your fucking TV and let it watch them; problem solved.
Oh my God, a new or future fornits parent!!! As usual your advice is deadly, TV is probably the worse thing you can do to your kids, you may think you have the answers but you are going to do more damage than you know. You should try to limit TV as much as possible, try spending more time with them, read some books, go to a museum or the park. But shut the TV off!!
Post by: TheWho on January 14, 2007, 10:26:14 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Ganja, I actually have to thank you, I had a cause and did what you said I was sent on a mission and picked up the Deluxe edition, sat back and enjoyed myself. I grabbed the Quadrophenia CD also when I was out (haven?t opened it yet). I skipped around a lot for the first hour. I settled into ?My Generation? which was different than the original release as I remember. It ran on for 16 minutes, similar to what I had heard in concert in ?73, they really let Townsend loose on this edition. I caught ?Happy Jack? which I have not heard in years and ?smash the mirror? ? anywayYou're welcome. I was glad when you said you intended to take my advice and treat yourself to one of the best live recordings ever to find its way onto pressed vinyl or optical plastic, not to mention it was created by the group that bears your namesake.
Listen to disc 2 start to finish. They pretty much perform Tommy in its entirety (though the order's a little jumbled) in one amazing chunk. It's beyond classic rock; Live at Leeds is pure genius. I will have to listen to the LP again sometime soon for an in-depth comparison.... There is like twice as much material on those two CDs as there was on the original album release.... pretty amazing shit for 1970!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_at_Leeds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_at_Leeds)
Yo Ganja, Yes the 70?s was an amazing time, I spent a good part of it going to college and chasing concerts up and down the east coast. I practically lived in a van when I wasn?t in school, 1974 I took time off of school. We caught "King Crimson" at the spectrum in, I think April that year, and traveled down to Florida with some friends to see "Dr. Hook and the Medicine Show - Tonic for the soul" (long story we knew a friend of a friend and had a blast back stage) They were mostly local (new Jersey) and were trying to break out and we went down to add support and decided to make a year of it, caught George Harrison at the Omni in Atlanta. Saw a ton of groups on the way up the coast (Don?t expect you to know most of these groups it was way before your time I believe).
The most unusual concert I was ever in was in Mobile. We were passing thru Alabama (not sure if it was ?74 might have been ?73) We went to see the group Chicago (because we happened to be there, 5 rows from the stage) and the place was so restrictive, no smoking, no talking, people in uniforms walked up and down the isles to remind you to put out your cigarette or no talking (I don?t think anyone thought of smoking anything else). Bright lights were on the audience the whole time. All the kids had hair cuts and were dressed up for church and would clap at the end of each song (I think we were the only ones in jeans). They ended up with something like ?Color my World? and afterwards said ?good night? and in unison shouted ?You suck Mobile!!? ,Ha,Ha,?. it was a very strange experience, very strange night.
Anyway, I am babbling (way too much information), sorry, but anyway thanks for the Who tip, Oh, ?Tommy?s Holiday camp? seemed different? I know they credited Moon with the song but it was all Townshend on Banjo and I think he was on key board also? Whats up with that do you know? Was this the original track?
Post by: RobertBruce on January 14, 2007, 11:05:25 PM
Quote
hi anne, Yes, I agree and it is a sales pitch. One thing we need to keep in mind is that these places are in place to make a profit. I don?t think anyone is trying to mislead anyone to this fact, its upfront (almost everyone that has a business puts out a list of warning signs, if they can, to flag prospective customers to purchase their product). They are saying that if your child has a few of these on the list they may need treatment and sure they may. They may need treatment if your child has all of these they may need treatment if they don?t have any. But it seems they are putting out warning signs to raise a flag. Parents aren?t going to be looking at these web sites unless they have concerns. I think if it does anything it may raise awareness that I want you to pay attention to, and make you take a second look at, your child and how he/she is doing, and get your child help locally. This isn?t a bad thing?
Yes Who but what about the kids who don't need to be there? Why would these programs advocate keeping kids who don't need help?
Post by: RobertBruce on January 14, 2007, 11:08:00 PM
Quote
Oh my God, a new or future fornits parent!!! As usual your advice is deadly, TV is probably the worse thing you can do to your kids, you may think you have the answers but you are going to do more damage than you know. You should try to limit TV as much as possible, try spending more time with them, read some books, go to a museum or the park. But shut the TV off!!
You're giving parenting advice? Who by your own admission your daughter didnt speak to you for two years because of what a terrible parent you are. You giving someone parenting advice is like me trying to walk someone through brain surgery. Stay away from what you don't know or can't handle.
Still waiting on you to grow a pair and back up your own claims.
Quote
Quote:
Exactly!! So at least we agree the car needs work !! 6 months ago you wouldn?t agree the car needed fixing
Provide the statement I have made which suggest this to be true.
Quote:
My analogy would, yes, a majority of posters, here on Fornits use to suggest that doing nothing was the best course of action for kids who were in trouble.
Provide numbers and statements to prove this claim.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 15, 2007, 08:41:24 AM
Just stop replying. Shit. Why not go do something productive like get a home brewing kit and make some pale ale?
Post by: TheWho on January 15, 2007, 11:21:33 AM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Guys... Gals.... everyone.
Just stop replying. Shit. Why not go do something productive like get a home brewing kit and make some pale ale?
Pale Ale? Like what Bud Lite? Whimpy stuff, swill...... Try something with a little more muscle. Kick it up a notch to an Amber Ale, like a "Sam's or Fat Tire"
Post by: Anonymous on January 15, 2007, 11:32:13 AM
Post by: RobertBruce on January 15, 2007, 12:04:27 PM
Quote
Pale Ale? Like what Bud Lite? Whimpy stuff, swill...... Try something with a little more muscle. Kick it up a notch to an Amber Ale, like a "Sam's or Fat Tire"
Sam's Fat Tire? Is that the brand of paint thinner you huff? If so it would explain quite a bit. Now either retract your statements or back them up.
Quote
Quote:
Exactly!! So at least we agree the car needs work !! 6 months ago you wouldn?t agree the car needed fixing
Provide the statement I have made which suggest this to be true.
Quote:
My analogy would, yes, a majority of posters, here on Fornits use to suggest that doing nothing was the best course of action for kids who were in trouble.
Provide numbers and statements to prove this claim.
Post by: TheWho on January 15, 2007, 12:14:53 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Men trying to calculate their manhood by their drink preference is always good for a hearty laugh. :rofl:
Yea, Really...I guess it doesnt go away as you get older either.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 15, 2007, 12:17:09 PM
Quote
Quote:
Exactly!! So at least we agree the car needs work !! 6 months ago you wouldn?t agree the car needed fixing
Provide the statement I have made which suggest this to be true.
Quote:
My analogy would, yes, a majority of posters, here on Fornits use to suggest that doing nothing was the best course of action for kids who were in trouble.
Provide numbers and statements to prove this claim.
Back them up asshole.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 15, 2007, 01:21:21 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""Guys... Gals.... everyone.
Just stop replying. Shit. Why not go do something productive like get a home brewing kit and make some pale ale?
Pale Ale? Like what Bud Lite? Whimpy stuff, swill...... Try something with a little more muscle. Kick it up a notch to an Amber Ale, like a "Sam's or Fat Tire"
Bud lite is (barely) a lager, dumbass.
Pale ales are not necessarily 'whimpy' by any means, its merely a catchall classification for beers made with ale yeasts that are made primarily by pale malts and focus on hoppyness instead of maltyness.
At any rate, comparing Sierra Nevada's Pale Ale to bud lite is about as stupid as every other analogy that comes out of you... :roll: especially when they actually bother to include caramel malt so its not just a one dimensional hop-tea with some alcohol :rofl:
Post by: TheWho on January 15, 2007, 01:28:30 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""Guys... Gals.... everyone.
Just stop replying. Shit. Why not go do something productive like get a home brewing kit and make some pale ale?
Pale Ale? Like what Bud Lite? Whimpy stuff, swill...... Try something with a little more muscle. Kick it up a notch to an Amber Ale, like a "Sam's or Fat Tire"
Bud lite is (barely) a lager, dumbass.
Pale ales are not necessarily 'whimpy' by any means, its merely a catchall classification for beers made with ale yeasts that are made primarily by pale malts and focus on hoppyness instead of maltyness.
At any rate, comparing Sierra Nevada's Pale Ale to bud lite is about as stupid as every other analogy that comes out of you... :roll: especially when they actually bother to include caramel malt so its not just a one dimensional hop-tea with some alcohol :rofl:
ooooow, now you went 'n dun it, I think them is fightin words...... I feel some muscles flexing around here...
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 15, 2007, 01:30:08 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 15, 2007, 01:37:13 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
No I feel a troll trying to find a riposte after he was dumb enough to argue beer with me :lol:
I still have to stick with a Sam's or Fat Tire. We had this guy in college who loved this beer called "Pearl" I think and used to bring his own. I think it was from Texas or Southwest somewhere. It was the nastiest stuff I have ever had, not sure if they still make. But I think everyone has their own taste.........
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 15, 2007, 01:42:30 PM
At least you managed to find a decent amber ale... yet somehow missed SNPA, which utterly amazes me.
You from colorado and just living in a small-world or did someone have to shove it down your throat?
At any rate, I don't like such underhopped sweetish stuff. I miss Bridgeport's IPA...
Post by: TheWho on January 15, 2007, 02:00:18 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
You still can't segregate lagers from ales... and the easiest to find micro, PERIOD, from bud lite, for that matter.
At least you managed to find a decent amber ale... yet somehow missed SNPA, which utterly amazes me.
You from colorado and just living in a small-world or did someone have to shove it down your throat?
At any rate, I don't like such underhopped sweetish stuff. I miss Bridgeport's IPA...
Bridgeport's IPA, Never had it. SNPA You mean "Sam adams Pale Ale" ? Yes I have had it, it is pretty good. Lately I have been gravitating to Sams Octoberfest and WinterBrew which has been great, Magic Hat if I need a change and especially any of the Sammy Smiths. I will hid these..... I know that is a bad sign, The Taddy porter (little strong), Nut Brown ale or Oatmeal Stout have always been outstanding??
Post by: RobertBruce on January 15, 2007, 02:08:02 PM
Quote
Quote:
Exactly!! So at least we agree the car needs work !! 6 months ago you wouldn?t agree the car needed fixing
Provide the statement I have made which suggest this to be true.
Quote:
My analogy would, yes, a majority of posters, here on Fornits use to suggest that doing nothing was the best course of action for kids who were in trouble.
Provide numbers and statements to prove this claim.
Post by: Troll Control on January 15, 2007, 02:13:43 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""No I feel a troll trying to find a riposte after he was dumb enough to argue beer with me :lol:
I still have to stick with a Sam's or Fat Tire. We had this guy in college who loved this beer called "Pearl" I think and used to bring his own. I think it was from Texas or Southwest somewhere. It was the nastiest stuff I have ever had, not sure if they still make. But I think everyone has their own taste.........
Yeah, you finally got one right. Pearl is a Texas brew, as in David Allan Coe's "If That Ain't Country (I'll kiss Your Ass)."
'(my daddy) drank Pearl from a can and Jack Daniel's black, chewed tobacco from a mail pouch sack...'
Also, we missed a salient point about yeast, lager and ale: not only different ingredients, but different brew temps and different yeast that float or sink (among other differences).
Post by: TheWho on January 15, 2007, 02:27:24 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""No I feel a troll trying to find a riposte after he was dumb enough to argue beer with me :lol:
I still have to stick with a Sam's or Fat Tire. We had this guy in college who loved this beer called "Pearl" I think and used to bring his own. I think it was from Texas or Southwest somewhere. It was the nastiest stuff I have ever had, not sure if they still make. But I think everyone has their own taste.........
Yeah, you finally got one right. Pearl is a Texas brew, as in David Allan Coe's "If That Ain't Country (I'll kiss Your Ass)."
'(my daddy) drank Pearl from a can and Jack Daniel's black, chewed tobacco from a mail pouch sack...'
Also, we missed a salient point about yeast, lager and ale: not only different ingredients, but different brew temps and different yeast that float or sink (among other differences).
Hey, you guys know your beer here. I would have pegged everyone as a Bud or Old Milwaukee?s best drinker. I brew my own once in a while, but I am not a student of beerology.
Post by: Troll Control on January 15, 2007, 02:32:52 PM
Been known to dabble with the brews from time to time though. Enough to tell the swill from the good juice anyway.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 15, 2007, 02:33:56 PM
For example:
Quote
Quote:
Exactly!! So at least we agree the car needs work !! 6 months ago you wouldn?t agree the car needed fixing
Provide the statement I have made which suggest this to be true.
Quote:
My analogy would, yes, a majority of posters, here on Fornits use to suggest that doing nothing was the best course of action for kids who were in trouble.
Provide numbers and statements to prove this claim.
Post by: Troll Control on January 15, 2007, 02:41:06 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 15, 2007, 02:44:44 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
That kind of relentlessness can only be spawned from a Private Kiddie Prison.
I disagree.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 15, 2007, 02:49:58 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""You still can't segregate lagers from ales... and the easiest to find micro, PERIOD, from bud lite, for that matter.
At least you managed to find a decent amber ale... yet somehow missed SNPA, which utterly amazes me.
You from colorado and just living in a small-world or did someone have to shove it down your throat?
At any rate, I don't like such underhopped sweetish stuff. I miss Bridgeport's IPA...
Bridgeport's IPA, Never had it. SNPA You mean "Sam adams Pale Ale" ? Yes I have had it, it is pretty good. Lately I have been gravitating to Sams Octoberfest and WinterBrew which has been great, Magic Hat if I need a change and especially any of the Sammy Smiths. I will hid these..... I know that is a bad sign, The Taddy porter (little strong), Nut Brown ale or Oatmeal Stout have always been outstanding??
SA is not SN. SIERRA NEVADA pale ale is iconic... Sam Adams's pale ale (and I don't know if they still make it) doesn't hold a candle to it.
:rofl: When FOOD LION'S stock it, and you ain't had it yet, you're behind, bub.
Also, I would like to thank DJ for pointing out comparing a pale ale to a... 'lager' like budlight is beyond retardation.
Post by: TheWho on January 15, 2007, 02:59:39 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
(Speaking of manhood here, *ahem*) I drink Crown Royal straight up on the rocks. Now that's some good hooch.
Been known to dabble with the brews from time to time though. Enough to tell the swill from the good juice anyway.
That is good stuff, out of my league,though. That brings back memories for me. I dated a girl who drank Crown Royal I think thats what it was. She had hundreds of these little purple bags around her place which she kept everything in, change, cosmetics, condoms. I think I overdosed once in college and can only handle a Drambuie once in a while. Mostly Beer and Wine. Father in law had an extensive wine cellar and I learned how to appreciate some nice wines enough (as you said) to tell the swill from the good juice anyway.
Post by: Troll Control on January 15, 2007, 03:10:34 PM
Quote
TheWho said this:
She had hundreds of these little purple bags around her place
...and before I read any further, I was thinking "She must have been easy!" And then I read this:
Quote
which she kept everything in, change, cosmetics, condoms
And I knew she was easy!
Gotta love those whiskey swilling wenches for an easy quickie!
Post by: TheWho on January 15, 2007, 03:37:42 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
QuoteTheWho said this:
She had hundreds of these little purple bags around her place
...and before I read any further, I was thinking "She must have been easy!" And then I read this:Quotewhich she kept everything in, change, cosmetics, condoms
And I knew she was easy!
Gotta love those whiskey swilling wenches for an easy quickie!
Ha,Ha, true, 2 months into the relationship, I was standing in line at the packy and there were 2 guys in front of me with a bottle of ?Crown Royal? under their arm. I put mine back and haven?t bought a bottle since. But everytime I see one of those purple bags I remember her, she was beautiful??
Post by: TheWho on January 15, 2007, 03:42:35 PM
??.The court said hashish and cocaine were found at his home, along with scales and a mixer used to prepare the drugs for sale???.
In addition to the death sentence, the court fined Sheik Talal $35,000 for drug trafficking.
Wonder what you get for a DUI.
Post by: Troll Control on January 15, 2007, 03:42:39 PM
Quote
But everytime I see one of those purple bags I remember her, she was beautiful??
funny how those memories persist. Like every time Robert sees you post nonsense about a program and he becomes instantly enraged. it never goes away.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 15, 2007, 03:53:08 PM
Quote
Quote:
Exactly!! So at least we agree the car needs work !! 6 months ago you wouldn?t agree the car needed fixing
Provide the statement I have made which suggest this to be true.
Quote:
My analogy would, yes, a majority of posters, here on Fornits use to suggest that doing nothing was the best course of action for kids who were in trouble.
Provide numbers and statements to prove this claim.
Post by: TheWho on January 16, 2007, 03:41:24 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 16, 2007, 03:42:35 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 16, 2007, 03:43:28 PM
Okay Cindy, I am getting tired of you not backing up your posts, you made these statements about the car analogy
Quote
Quote:
Exactly!! So at least we agree the car needs work !! 6 months ago you wouldn?t agree the car needed fixing
Provide the statement I have made which suggest this to be true.
Quote:
My analogy would, yes, a majority of posters, here on Fornits use to suggest that doing nothing was the best course of action for kids who were in trouble.
Provide numbers and statements to prove this claim and photographs if you have them or utube video is also acceptable.
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2007, 03:49:33 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 16, 2007, 04:10:03 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Some of the schools have Facebook groups with over 100 members. Shows where all the kids are in school now- either college or post-TBS high school. Interesting to check out.
What is this? Something the TBS's keep track of?
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2007, 04:15:22 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 16, 2007, 04:24:31 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Facebook is like MySpace only mainly for college kids. It is now open to others, but it started as only for people with a school email address. There are groups for each educational institution. You can only see someone's personal detail if they "friend" you. Otherwise, you just see their name and their friends. I want you to register to login to facebook. Facebook was started by two Harvard kids and spread rapidly. The kids are now multi-millionaires.
Thanks, I'll check it out.
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2007, 04:26:47 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Would what you do for a living be considered market research?
Did we ever get an answer to questions about Who's professional background?
Post by: Ganja on January 16, 2007, 04:41:35 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
So you saw King Crimson back then; I'll bet that was cool!Quote from: ""Ganja""Quote from: ""TheWho""Ganja, I actually have to thank you, I had a cause and did what you said I was sent on a mission and picked up the Deluxe edition, sat back and enjoyed myself. I grabbed the Quadrophenia CD also when I was out (haven?t opened it yet). I skipped around a lot for the first hour. I settled into ?My Generation? which was different than the original release as I remember. It ran on for 16 minutes, similar to what I had heard in concert in ?73, they really let Townsend loose on this edition. I caught ?Happy Jack? which I have not heard in years and ?smash the mirror? ? anywayYou're welcome. I was glad when you said you intended to take my advice and treat yourself to one of the best live recordings ever to find its way onto pressed vinyl or optical plastic, not to mention it was created by the group that bears your namesake.
Listen to disc 2 start to finish. They pretty much perform Tommy in its entirety (though the order's a little jumbled) in one amazing chunk. It's beyond classic rock; Live at Leeds is pure genius. I will have to listen to the LP again sometime soon for an in-depth comparison.... There is like twice as much material on those two CDs as there was on the original album release.... pretty amazing shit for 1970!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_at_Leeds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_at_Leeds)
Yo Ganja, Yes the 70?s was an amazing time, I spent a good part of it going to college and chasing concerts up and down the east coast. I practically lived in a van when I wasn?t in school, 1974 I took time off of school. We caught "King Crimson" at the spectrum in, I think April that year, and traveled down to Florida with some friends to see "Dr. Hook and the Medicine Show - Tonic for the soul" (long story we knew a friend of a friend and had a blast back stage) They were mostly local (new Jersey) and were trying to break out and we went down to add support and decided to make a year of it, caught George Harrison at the Omni in Atlanta. Saw a ton of groups on the way up the coast (Don?t expect you to know most of these groups it was way before your time I believe).
The most unusual concert I was ever in was in Mobile. We were passing thru Alabama (not sure if it was ?74 might have been ?73) We went to see the group Chicago (because we happened to be there, 5 rows from the stage) and the place was so restrictive, no smoking, no talking, people in uniforms walked up and down the isles to remind you to put out your cigarette or no talking (I don?t think anyone thought of smoking anything else). Bright lights were on the audience the whole time. All the kids had hair cuts and were dressed up for church and would clap at the end of each song (I think we were the only ones in jeans). They ended up with something like ?Color my World? and afterwards said ?good night? and in unison shouted ?You suck Mobile!!? ,Ha,Ha,?. it was a very strange experience, very strange night.
Anyway, I am babbling (way too much information), sorry, but anyway thanks for the Who tip, Oh, ?Tommy?s Holiday camp? seemed different? I know they credited Moon with the song but it was all Townshend on Banjo and I think he was on key board also? Whats up with that do you know? Was this the original track?
Who was in the band when you saw them?
What album were they touring on?
Quote
(Don?t expect you to know most of these groups it was way before your time I believe).It's possible I've heard of some of them and may even be familiar with a few...
Was Spirit one of those bands?
Did you ever get into reading stuff by Lester Bangs?
Quote
Anyway, I am babbling (way too much information), sorry, but anyway thanks for the Who tip, Oh, ?Tommy?s Holiday camp? seemed different? I know they credited Moon with the song but it was all Townshend on Banjo and I think he was on key board also? Whats up with that do you know? Was this the original track?
Well if Townsend WAS on keyboard it wouldn't have been the only time, but I don't know. There's banjo in it? You must be referring to the studio version? Live at Leeds was all recorded live as far as I could tell...
Post by: TheWho on January 16, 2007, 04:51:34 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Would what you do for a living be considered market research?
Did we ever get an answer to questions about Who's professional background?
I am in business, nothing very exciting and not associated with the teen help industry. I am presently spending 6 months helping a friend get his business back on track, so my hours are sporadic
Post by: RobertBruce on January 16, 2007, 04:52:32 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Some things you just have to do yourself.....
Okay Cindy, I am getting tired of you not backing up your posts, you made these statements about the car analogyQuoteQuote:
Exactly!! So at least we agree the car needs work !! 6 months ago you wouldn?t agree the car needed fixing
Provide the statement I have made which suggest this to be true.
Quote:
My analogy would, yes, a majority of posters, here on Fornits use to suggest that doing nothing was the best course of action for kids who were in trouble.
Provide numbers and statements to prove this claim and photographs if you have them or utube video is also acceptable.
No idiot that was you. You made the statements now you back it up, or acknowledge you cannot. Just like in a court room the burden of proof is on the one who made the accusation.
So get on it.
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2007, 04:59:08 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""Would what you do for a living be considered market research?
Did we ever get an answer to questions about Who's professional background?
I am in business, nothing very exciting and not associated with the teen help industry. I am presently spending 6 months helping a friend get his business back on track, so my hours are sporadic
You've got something to do with the troubled parent industry. There is no way in hell someone would spend THIS MUCH TIME AND EFFORT defending these places and make the slipups that you do (using the term "we" when referring to HLA) without some vested interest in it.
Post by: Ganja on January 16, 2007, 05:02:43 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""Would what you do for a living be considered market research?
Did we ever get an answer to questions about Who's professional background?
I am in business, nothing very exciting and not associated with the teen help industry. I am presently spending 6 months helping a friend get his business back on track, so my hours are sporadic
You've got something to do with the troubled parent industry. There is no way in hell someone would spend THIS MUCH TIME AND EFFORT defending these places and make the slipups that you do (using the term "we" when referring to HLA) without some vested interest in it.
Is it possible he's just overly-opinionated or something?
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2007, 05:06:07 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Is it possible he's just overly-opinionated or something?
Of course, anything's possible but something just keeps nagging at me about this guy. There's more to the story, IMHO.
Post by: Ganja on January 16, 2007, 05:08:12 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Ganja""Is it possible he's just overly-opinionated or something?
Of course, anything's possible but something just keeps nagging at me about this guy. There's more to the story, IMHO.
Ok.
Why are you so concerned with all of these factoids, Who?
Post by: RobertBruce on January 16, 2007, 05:15:26 PM
Quote
You've got something to do with the troubled parent industry. There is no way in hell someone would spend THIS MUCH TIME AND EFFORT defending these places and make the slipups that you do (using the term "we" when referring to HLA) without some vested interest in it.
No he just an asshole who thinks he knows something about the field when it's obvious he hasn't got a clue. If he were connected to the industry he might actually try and back up some of his claims. As it stands he can't even make the effort, because he knows literally nothing about it.
Post by: TheWho on January 16, 2007, 05:22:42 PM
Quote
So you saw King Crimson back then; I'll bet that was cool!
Who was in the band when you saw them?
What album were they touring on?Quote(Don?t expect you to know most of these groups it was way before your time I believe).It's possible I've heard of some of them and may even be familiar with a few...
Was Spirit one of those bands?
Did you ever get into reading stuff by Lester Bangs?QuoteAnyway, I am babbling (way too much information), sorry, but anyway thanks for the Who tip, Oh, ?Tommy?s Holiday camp? seemed different? I know they credited Moon with the song but it was all Townshend on Banjo and I think he was on key board also? Whats up with that do you know? Was this the original track?Well if Townsend WAS on keyboard it wouldn't have been the only time, but I don't know. There's banjo in it? You must be referring to the studio version? Live at Leeds was all recorded live as far as I could tell...
John Wetton was on vocals back then I believe, Greg Lake had moved on to Emerson, Lake and Palmer. I saw Emerson Lake and Palmer I believe the year before and the band?Yes? was back up for them on their tour. They (Yes) just shot to the top after that tour. Anyway, I am off track here. King Crimson played ?Easy money?, ?Schizoid man? I don?t remember much about the concert itself except that I was honored to be there and didn?t think I would ever get a chance to see them again, which I didn?t, too bad. I think David Cross was still on Keyboards, the Album was ?Murder Case??
I never got a chance to see Spirit, where did you see them, I definitely remember them!! The Family that plays together?. I am not sure they came east when I was there.
I didn?t read much of Lester Bangs, I remember some of his reviews and stuff he said. I was mostly reading Vonnegut back then.
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2007, 05:25:09 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
No he just an asshole who thinks he knows something about the field when it's obvious he hasn't got a clue. If he were connected to the industry he might actually try and back up some of his claims. As it stands he can't even make the effort, because he knows literally nothing about it.
That means nothing. NO one in the industry can back up their claims. Nope, I still think he's connected in some way. Maybe not a direct employee, but there's something.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 16, 2007, 05:29:09 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2007, 05:35:42 PM
Post by: Ganja on January 16, 2007, 05:43:50 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
yeah, I hear what you're saying Robert, I just don't agree.
Why the hell not?? :lol:
Post by: RobertBruce on January 16, 2007, 05:48:43 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2007, 05:51:47 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
I think the point was made on both sides. Cindy isn't going to tell us even he is working for the industry, in the long run it isn't that important anyway because either way he still hasn't got a clue as to what he's talking about. There isn't much need to continue the topic.
It's important to me.
Post by: Ganja on January 16, 2007, 06:02:22 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""I think the point was made on both sides. Cindy isn't going to tell us even he is working for the industry, in the long run it isn't that important anyway because either way he still hasn't got a clue as to what he's talking about. There isn't much need to continue the topic.
It's important to me.
I wouldn't mind getting an answer either, but deep down could really give a fiddler's fuck... :D
No, scratch that, I'd like to know.
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2007, 06:08:34 PM
::bwahaha::
Post by: RobertBruce on January 16, 2007, 06:09:01 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 16, 2007, 06:10:16 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""Guest""I wouldn't mind getting an answer either, but deep down could really give a fiddler's fuck... :DQuote from: ""RobertBruce""I think the point was made on both sides. Cindy isn't going to tell us even he is working for the industry, in the long run it isn't that important anyway because either way he still hasn't got a clue as to what he's talking about. There isn't much need to continue the topic.
It's important to me.
No, scratch that, I'd like to know.
What is it that you would lke to know?
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2007, 06:12:02 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on January 16, 2007, 06:14:57 PM
Is this true?
Post by: TheWho on January 16, 2007, 06:16:24 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Don't know about him but I'd like to know what your connection is to the Troubled Parent Industry. Besides your daughter. Not that I expect an honest answer.
Not much besides our family being associated. I am interested in businees's in a volital field. Watching them thrive, turn the corner, learnign their successes and failures.
I can apply the same lessons to my own business's. Just curious.
Post by: Ganja on January 16, 2007, 06:27:09 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Don't know about him but I'd like to know what your connection is to the Troubled Parent Industry. Besides your daughter. Not that I expect an honest answer.
Yeah this is what the question was, Who (in re: to your other post).
Post by: RobertBruce on January 16, 2007, 06:32:27 PM
Cindy: Not only will this product be the best you've ever experienced, but it can cure cancer and make your shit turn into gold!
Customer: Really? WOW thanks man!
********two weeks later************
Customer: Uhhh excuse me Cindy, you sold me this piece of shit two weeks ago and claimed it would cure cancer and turn my fecal matter into gold, neither has happened. Can you explain yourself?
CIndy: I'm not going to do your homework for you, if it's that important you research it yourself, then if you disagree with me we can discuss it.
Customer: Why would I need to research your bullshit, you made something up, now either back it up or give me my money back!
Cindy: Woah man, you need to relax, I'm neither right nor wrong, You've got to take what I said into perspective. Now you claimed that this device would cure cancer, it doesn't and you got burned. Now you're upset about it, I want you to calm down and establish what the standards are for this industry.
Customer: What? I didn't claim any such thing, you did!
Cindy: Can you prove you didn't say it?
Customer: Are you high?
Cindy: Always. I see nothing wrong with taking a little puff now and again, of course I had my daughter tortured for just such a thing but that's neither here nor there. In any event I went to a Styx concert in 1973 this is of course when Tommy Shaw was with the band, who in my factual gospel like opinion was much much greater than DeYoung ever was.
Customer: Okay you know what? I'm coming back in here with a bat and I'm going to beat your ass, then I'm going to tell everyone on the planet to never shop here and what an absolute stupid asshole you are.
Cindy: Hey hey hey...I conducted a survey so I know I'm doing something right. Now this survey consisted of myself, my mother, and my dog Rex. Now two of those people said they might come back into my store, but not likely. That's 100% approval rating buddy! Take that in your pipe and smoke it! Speaking of which.......God I hate my kids.
And that I think about sums up a typical business transaction for our little Cindy.
Post by: Ganja on January 16, 2007, 06:34:11 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on January 16, 2007, 06:37:40 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 16, 2007, 06:53:38 PM
Post by: Ganja on January 16, 2007, 06:54:31 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Everytime I see your name I think of a movie I once saw called Jumanji.
Hmmm... yeah, Robin Williams is all right..
Post by: RobertBruce on January 16, 2007, 06:55:22 PM
So any chance of you backing up your own comments now or still ducking those?
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 11:49:47 AM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Yeah Cindy my run down of your typical transaction while dead on accurate was still really really funny.
So any chance of you backing up your own comments now or still ducking those?
Bob, I have to admit it was funny, I saved a copy. I am not going to scan in every article I read or provide evidence to back up my every opinion. If this causes you heart burn, skip over my posts like I do with yours. Thats one of the reasons they put the persons ID/Name next to the post to help identify those posters you are most interested in, its a great system. Try it out!!
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 11:58:59 AM
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 11:59:46 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""Yeah Cindy my run down of your typical transaction while dead on accurate was still really really funny.
So any chance of you backing up your own comments now or still ducking those?
Bob, I have to admit it was funny, I saved a copy. I am not going to scan in every article I read or provide evidence to back up my every opinion. If this causes you heart burn, skip over my posts like I do with yours. Thats one of the reasons they put the persons ID/Name next to the post to help identify those posters you are most interested in, its a great system. Try it out!!
Testy. Measured pissy-ness. Add me to your list of skipped posts, gruntskid. If you skip everybody who takes you to task for your utterances, you're gonna be a bored motherfucker with nothing to read, and no reason to open your cock-trap, you poison asshole. I'll say this for you, you're a relentless dickhead.
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 12:10:22 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""RobertBruce""Yeah Cindy my run down of your typical transaction while dead on accurate was still really really funny.
So any chance of you backing up your own comments now or still ducking those?
Bob, I have to admit it was funny, I saved a copy. I am not going to scan in every article I read or provide evidence to back up my every opinion. If this causes you heart burn, skip over my posts like I do with yours. Thats one of the reasons they put the persons ID/Name next to the post to help identify those posters you are most interested in, its a great system. Try it out!!
Testy. Measured pissy-ness. Add me to your list of skipped posts, gruntskid. If you skip everybody who takes you to task for your utterances, you're gonna be a bored motherfucker with nothing to read, and no reason to open your cock-trap, you poison asshole. I'll say this for you, you're a relentless dickhead.
Testy,Testy !!! No!!! Calm down.....Skip thoses who dont add value, in your opnion, or a discussion you dont care about!!! If someone is possing an arguement or debate, of course tune in. If someone is having a discussion on drag racing and you happen to not be interested in drag racing you can skip over thse posts by using the persons ID until the discussion abates. A reader cant possibly read every post, at least I dont.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 12:11:10 PM
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 12:17:38 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Ok, here a direct question. What evidence do you have to back up your claim that this method of treatment (the levels, "positive :roll: peer culture" [read: snitch culture, kids being rewarded for ratting out other kids. In Straight it was referred to as "holding someone accountable" and was very often some vague, arbitrary "concern" conjured up to gain points with staff], isolation, LifeSteps) is effective?
Wonderful character builder, eh Who? Teaches you to get along in a society that espouses this ideal in many ways. "In a world of competition life's portrayed as a contest where we're forced to live by making gains at others expense, but no-one's really gaining when perpetual conflict is the result of our relationships based on pretense."
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 12:22:59 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Ok, here a direct question. What evidence do you have to back up your claim that this method of treatment (the levels, "positive :roll: peer culture" [read: snitch culture, kids being rewarded for ratting out other kids. In Straight it was referred to as "holding someone accountable" and was very often some vague, arbitrary "concern" conjured up to gain points with staff], isolation, LifeSteps) is effective?
My evidence are the graduates of one TBS which I followed thru the program along with my daughter. I knew them when they went in and have been in contact with many of them since.
I don?t agree that isolation, being rewarded for telling staff etc was used at ASR. But my evidence are the kids I met and read about. I also realize that some kids do not do well and it is not effective for all children. So I don?t agree with one size first all.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 12:26:21 PM
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 12:28:22 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I don?t agree that isolation, being rewarded for telling staff etc was used at ASR.
How bout those LifeSteps? Goodtobefree wrote some pretty powerful stuff. You agreed that it was pretty much what your daughter went through. What GTBF described is abuse, plain and simple
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 12:28:58 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Why cant' you just admit you don't have any? Your stories are not evidence.
Thats all any of us have are our own experiences and what we have been told by others.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 12:29:58 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""Why cant' you just admit you don't have any? Your stories are not evidence.
Thats all any of us have are our own experiences and what we have been told by others.
No, that's all YOU have.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 12:31:02 PM
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=12902&start=90 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=12902&start=90)
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 12:32:26 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 12:32:48 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""I don?t agree that isolation, being rewarded for telling staff etc was used at ASR.
How bout those LifeSteps?
My daughter told me they were pretty intense at the time. She remembers getting a lot of support from peers who had gone thru the life steps before her, the night before. The kids were really supportive of each other, she made a lot of friends there and did a ton of growing during that year.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 12:36:01 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
My daughter told me they were pretty intense at the time. She remembers getting a lot of support from peers who had gone thru the life steps before her, the night before. The kids were really supportive of each other, she made a lot of friends there and did a ton of growing during that year.
That's why it really is pointless to continue this. It's like that whole rape analogy. Yeah, I ended up being stronger but it doesn't mean it was a good thing. LifeSteps are emotional rape.
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 17, 2007, 12:37:13 PM
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 12:40:34 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Why cant' you just admit you don't have any? Your stories are not evidence.
Evidently he thinks they are..?
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 12:40:56 PM
Quote
Testy. Measured pissy-ness. Add me to your list of skipped posts, gruntskid. If you skip everybody who takes you to task for your utterances, you're gonna be a bored motherfucker with nothing to read, and no reason to open your cock-trap, you poison asshole. I'll say this for you, you're a relentless dickhead.
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
I apologize. I was only joking. Seriously. Believe that. Or not.
either way it was intense and I could tell a lot of energy was released !! I learned a couple new words out of it, not sure I can use them at home or work, well maybe at work!
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 12:42:17 PM
Quote from: ""G420""
For all I know my dad could be out there just like you saying the same things. In fact, I am sure he is, not on the net, but in person he says things very similar to what you say. That's why it's hard to take you seriously, or believe what you say. Because I know my dad is full of shit, and speaks from his own need to believe the fantasy he paid good money for. Programs are not for kids, they are for parents.
Yep.
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 12:44:15 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""My daughter told me they were pretty intense at the time. She remembers getting a lot of support from peers who had gone thru the life steps before her, the night before. The kids were really supportive of each other, she made a lot of friends there and did a ton of growing during that year.
That's why it really is pointless to continue this. It's like that whole rape analogy. Yeah, I ended up being stronger but it doesn't mean it was a good thing. LifeSteps are emotional rape.
Good analogy.
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 12:47:10 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""My daughter told me they were pretty intense at the time. She remembers getting a lot of support from peers who had gone thru the life steps before her, the night before. The kids were really supportive of each other, she made a lot of friends there and did a ton of growing during that year.
That's why it really is pointless to continue this. It's like that whole rape analogy. Yeah, I ended up being stronger but it doesn't mean it was a good thing. LifeSteps are emotional rape.
Thats fine..... I have been accused of dismissing evidence. It is clear it goes both ways here. My evidence is just as valuable and credible as anyone elses, it just isnt as popular here and I understand that but it is fact and should not be ignored just like the kids stories of having a bad experience should not be ignored.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 12:47:18 PM
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 12:50:21 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteTesty. Measured pissy-ness. Add me to your list of skipped posts, gruntskid. If you skip everybody who takes you to task for your utterances, you're gonna be a bored motherfucker with nothing to read, and no reason to open your cock-trap, you poison asshole. I'll say this for you, you're a relentless dickhead.Quote from: ""ZenAgent""I apologize. I was only joking. Seriously. Believe that. Or not.
either way it was intense and I could tell a lot of energy was released !! I learned a couple new words out of it, not sure I can use them at home or work, well maybe at work!
If you have reason to use the word "cock-trap" at work, I'd consider looking for a new occupation that doesn't involve knee pads.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 12:50:23 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Thats fine..... I have been accused of dismissing evidence. It is clear it goes both ways here. My evidence is just as valuable and credible as anyone elses, it just isnt as popular here and I understand that but it is fact and should not be ignored just like the kids stories of having a bad experience should not be ignored.
No it's not. You're "evidence" is to simply say "it helped my daughter" or "it helps some kids". Our evidence is stories about what happened in there (GTBF's description of LifeSteps) and then backed up with links to why that's been proven to be dangerous.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 17, 2007, 12:52:11 PM
Quote
Bob, I have to admit it was funny, I saved a copy. I am not going to scan in every article I read or provide evidence to back up my every opinion. If this causes you heart burn, skip over my posts like I do with yours. Thats one of the reasons they put the persons ID/Name next to the post to help identify those posters you are most interested in, its a great system. Try it out!!
Your every opinion? Cindy you don't back up any of your opinions. I simply don't understand why you demand others back up their claims yet you refuse to back up any of your own. Again the purpose of fornits is to provide information, you're simply providing propoganda. Whatsmore you refuse to acknowledge when you've proven wrong. You keep talking about adding something to the discussion. You add nothing as you have no real information to share. If you want to discuss the experiences you had with your daughters group fine, but limit it to WHAT YOU EXPERIENCED you cannot talk about anything else because one you don't know anything else, but two you are unwilling to look shit up. Until then you shouldnt talk about anything.
In the meantime I'd like you to simply back up your statements regarding your claim that I felt that the best way to handle kids with problems is to ignore it. If you cannot I'd like you to acknowledge you were wrong.
You let me know if you can handle that.
Post by: Anonymous on January 17, 2007, 12:52:40 PM
NOT!
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 12:53:38 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""Quote from: ""TheWho""My daughter told me they were pretty intense at the time. She remembers getting a lot of support from peers who had gone thru the life steps before her, the night before. The kids were really supportive of each other, she made a lot of friends there and did a ton of growing during that year.
That's why it really is pointless to continue this. It's like that whole rape analogy. Yeah, I ended up being stronger but it doesn't mean it was a good thing. LifeSteps are emotional rape.
Thats fine..... I have been accused of dismissing evidence. It is clear it goes both ways here. My evidence is just as valuable and credible as anyone elses, it just isnt as popular here and I understand that but it is fact and should not be ignored just like the kids stories of having a bad experience should not be ignored.
Being truly honest is no means of survival in those places. Your true inner-feelings are to be avoided. This is what it takes to comply with the images this structure will accomodate. But things aren't what they seem when they're partially hidden behind walls of pretense built for peace of mind...the barriers between us were forever maintained by our acceptance of the roles the group chose to define.
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 12:53:43 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Thats fine..... I have been accused of dismissing evidence. It is clear it goes both ways here. My evidence is just as valuable and credible as anyone elses, it just isnt as popular here and I understand that but it is fact and should not be ignored just like the kids stories of having a bad experience should not be ignored.
No it's not. You're "evidence" is to simply say "it helped my daughter" or "it helps some kids". Our evidence is stories about what happened in there (GTBF's description of LifeSteps) and then backed up with links to why that's been proven to be dangerous.
Yes but you evidence is stories also, it was based on one persons account of what happened ,GTBF's. Mine is based on different accounts. I think they are similar but not all together the same.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 17, 2007, 12:53:59 PM
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 12:56:56 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Yes but you evidence is stories also, it was based on one persons account of what happened ,GTBF's. Mine is based on different accounts. I think they are similar but not all together the same.
Ours are stories backed with evidence that the type of 'treatment' described is abusive.
See the difference?
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 12:57:20 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteTesty. Measured pissy-ness. Add me to your list of skipped posts, gruntskid. If you skip everybody who takes you to task for your utterances, you're gonna be a bored motherfucker with nothing to read, and no reason to open your cock-trap, you poison asshole. I'll say this for you, you're a relentless dickhead.Quote from: ""ZenAgent""I apologize. I was only joking. Seriously. Believe that. Or not.
either way it was intense and I could tell a lot of energy was released !! I learned a couple new words out of it, not sure I can use them at home or work, well maybe at work!
If you have reason to use the word "cock-trap" at work, I'd consider looking for a new occupation that doesn't involve knee pads.
Yea, kind of eye opening isnt it, thats why I take lots of time off in between taking on a new challenge.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 12:58:27 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Being truly honest is no means of survival in those places. Your true inner-feelings are to be avoided. This is what it takes to comply with the images this structure will accomodate. But things aren't what they seem when they're partially hidden behind walls of pretense built for peace of mind...the barriers between us were forever maintained by our acceptance of the roles the group chose to define.
:tup:
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 12:58:45 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Yea, kind of eye opening isnt it, thats why I take lots of time off in between taking on a new challenge.
We don't need this cultural division, it upholds the self-interest on which the system feeds. A deconditioned consciousness of mutual respect is the only way to cure this disease.
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 01:05:54 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Yea, kind of eye opening isnt it, thats why I take lots of time off in between taking on a new challenge.We don't need this cultural division, it upholds the self-interest on which the system feeds. A deconditioned consciousness of mutual respect is the only way to cure this disease.
Sorry, it was a knee jerk response
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 01:10:36 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 01:12:42 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
No worries, Who. I wasn't really replying to what you said, just to you in general. Maybe you think this program helped your daughter, but further on up the road she may tell you some things that surprise & shock you. Be prepared for that.
Thanks, I'll try to be.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 01:13:48 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Ganja""Quote from: ""TheWho""Yea, kind of eye opening isnt it, thats why I take lots of time off in between taking on a new challenge.We don't need this cultural division, it upholds the self-interest on which the system feeds. A deconditioned consciousness of mutual respect is the only way to cure this disease.
Sorry, it was a knee jerk response
What did I say about the knees? Pick up the classifieds, homeslice!
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 01:16:19 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 01:17:00 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Ganja""Quote from: ""TheWho""Yea, kind of eye opening isnt it, thats why I take lots of time off in between taking on a new challenge.We don't need this cultural division, it upholds the self-interest on which the system feeds. A deconditioned consciousness of mutual respect is the only way to cure this disease.
Sorry, it was a knee jerk response
What did I say about the knees? Pick up the classifieds, homeslice!
Ha,Ha
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 01:20:04 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Yeah, my dad still thinks it was 'the right thing to do at the time'. He's also fond of deluding himself into believing it was a 'family program' for a 'family disease'. Cuz, ya know, the parents went through their raps too. Like that's any fucking comparison to what we went through. :roll: He likes to believe that it taught him where he was wrong as a parent but all it really did was reinforce his 'tough love' style of parenting but it was made even worse by him playing the victim (of my horrendous behavior). :roll:
God, what did you do to your poor dad that was so terrible, Anne? Did you make him walk the plank? :rofl:
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 01:25:56 PM
I was talking to one of my best friends about this the other day. We've known each other since 9th grade so she saw what happened to me before and after. What she cant' get over is the fact that I was the lightweight of our little crowd. They were all into a lot more shit than I was. They all grew up and grew out of the destructive, impulsive behavior that is adolescence. I was put in Straight for "help" and I'm the only one of us that's had trouble making it in life. That anecdotal evidence is staring my dad right in the face and he won't see it. He still insists that I would have been deadinsaneorinjail.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 17, 2007, 01:32:39 PM
You're the one who went through hell, not them... they just look for attention (well, the program parent) and act as if they are above reproach for anything they ever do regarding their child at all... unless they start attention whoring about OH MY POOR CHILD WAS ABUSED I WAS SO FOOLED but still go ME ME ME about it all.
Its like you're their pet, vicarious liver-through, or just a psychological appendage!!!
WTF is wrong with everyone? You don't parent to get the feel-good warm fuzzies about 'parenting' you do it for that person you created and needs you to survive until they can make it on their own.
Post by: Deborah on January 17, 2007, 01:33:33 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
That's the problem with WHO: he thinks HIS OPINIONS are actually "evidence." NOT!
Yeh, goes with the territory.
"In the initial findings of this multiphase study, teens whose emotional and behavioral functioning was previously described by their parents as 'clinically' impaired when they began residential treatment, was later described as 'normal' after treatment," said Dr. Ellen Behrens, lead researcher at Canyon Research & Consulting, Salt Lake City, Utah, which conducted the study. "Perhaps even more importantly, the teens themselves later rated their own emotional and behavioral problems in 'normal' ranges after treatment."
Hmm? What about the 98% who 'rebound'? Are they in the 'normal' range, and isn't that more to the point, in terms of what parents want to know?
"The findings are significant in that both the parents and the students reported tremendous improvement in their communications and personal family dynamics by the time of discharge from the treatment program," added Dr. Behrens. "In addition, both groups felt that student behaviors prior to treatment, including aggressiveness, withdrawal and rule breaking, had been diminished to 'normal' levels. [Is this considered "clinically impaired"?] This indicates that these changes were not only statistically significant but clinically meaningful to the family."
Sixteen (16) months to make improvement in communications and personal family dynamics? Not efficient, a waste of money, and too much time for the family to be apart. SuperNanny could accomplish that in 2 weeks.
Seriously, Behrens needs to divulge her relationship to Aspen. Wouldn't that be the ethical thing to do? As well as her and her staff's current involvement and past involvement with programs.
Then Jan Moss, NATSAPs pimp, jumps in and tries to apply the 'study' to the entire industry, when it only included 9 Aspen programs.
"Until now, our industry [our industry=9 Aspen programs?] has relied on anecdotal evidence and individual success stories [And still does. Isn't that what Behren's 'study' amounts to?] to substantiate the outstanding work that has been done by high-quality, private residential treatment programs throughout the United States," said Jan Moss, executive director of the National Association of Therapeutic Schools and Programs, a national organization representing programs and professionals assisting young people with emotional and behavioral difficulties. "This research demonstrates what we've always believed -- that research-driven and evidence-based private residential programs can help turnaround teens in trouble. This information will give new hope to thousands of families who have been struggling with the difficult decision of how to best help a child."
We can only hope that it doesn't. Where is the evidence that RTCs use research-driven and evidence-based methods??? She needs to be sued for her fraudulent comments which mislead ppp's.
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 01:42:30 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
I realize i'm repeating this but why the hell are parents so damned self victimizing? Why the attentionwhoring?[/b]
You're the one who went through hell, not them... they just look for attention (well, the program parent) and act as if they are above reproach for anything they ever do regarding their child at all... unless they start attention whoring about OH MY POOR CHILD WAS ABUSED I WAS SO FOOLED but still go ME ME ME about it all.
Its like you're their pet, vicarious liver-through, or just a psychological appendage!!!
WTF is wrong with everyone? You don't parent to get the feel-good warm fuzzies about 'parenting' you do it for that person you created and needs you to survive until they can make it on their own.
Yeah!! This is so true !! The warm fuzzies are nice but some parents (people) see things as all about themselves and that is where the kids can get lost!! If there is a problem it is a family problem and should be approached as such, there is no single victim.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 17, 2007, 01:44:32 PM
You say the parents should be parents and look out for the kids, then say there is no single victim?
BRB gotta go stop my brains from leaking out of my ears.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 17, 2007, 01:47:36 PM
I'll summon the N-Bot for this.
*** N-BOT TRANSLATION FOR USER SELECTED FIELD BEGIN ***
Quote
Until now, our industry has relied on anecdotal evidence and individual anecdotes to substantiate thework that has been done by , private residential torture programs throughout the United States," said Jan Moss, . "This research demonstrates what we've always believed -- that research-driven and evidence-based private residential programs could help turnaround teens in trouble, if we would ever bother to work that way, and only treat kids with actual problems! This mis-information will give new hope to thousands of families who have been struggling with the difficult decision of how to best help a child, but mistakenly turn to us for assistance, granted they have a problem in the first place and it's not just parental hysteria and munchausen by proxy with a gulag twist.
*** N-BOT TRANSLATION FOR USER SELECTED FIELD STOP ***
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 01:51:23 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
I realize i'm repeating this but why the hell are parents so damned self victimizing? Why the attentionwhoring?
You're the one who went through hell, not them... they just look for attention (well, the program parent) and act as if they are above reproach for anything they ever do regarding their child at all... unless they start attention whoring about OH MY POOR CHILD WAS ABUSED I WAS SO FOOLED but still go ME ME ME about it all.
Its like you're their pet, vicarious liver-through, or just a psychological appendage!!!
WTF is wrong with everyone? You don't parent to get the feel-good warm fuzzies about 'parenting' you do it for that person you created and needs you to survive until they can make it on their own.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Most of these parents can't really be bothered to actually parent their child. Then when behavioral problems (real or perceived) crop up, they panic and go running off for 'help'. Mine were too wrapped up in their own issues when I was growing up to really bother with me. I felt very alone (only child too). They separeted and then divorced when I was 14 and mom and I moved out. I had just started high school and was switching from being sheltered in private school my whole life to public. I did the normal smoking, drinking and general raising hell. Skipping school, got in a car accident, change of friends...ya know, all those 'warning signs' TBSs are so fond of. They got scared and put me in Straight. So you've got pretty much this empty vessel. Since mom and dad were so busy with their own lives and problems that they couldn't really be bothered to teach me anything about life, I really had no sense of self or roots. Then heap two years of cult brainwashing and send me off into the world to be a well adjusted adult. Riiiiiiiiight. :roll: I did tow the line for a while and dad got to brag about what a good parent he was and how much he sacrificed for me to be able to attend the wonderful program that I did and how it saved my life and taught us so much as a family ::puke:: , but as soon as I began to question what had really gone on, I was quickly given an 'exit plan' so to speak. As long as I rejected Straight and it's teachings I was cut off from the family.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 17, 2007, 02:03:20 PM
I kinda lack having any sense of roots or 'home' or a past or lineage myself... it sucks, huh? Gotta go roll around before you put any roots down, and hope you bump into someone with a lil perspective willing to share it with you to help you situate yourself.
My own parents (well, sans one and his new wifey) aren't abusive/washy/lazy so much as basically destroyed by the actions of daddio and his bullshit screwing ALL of us over.
It just sucks having to grow yourself up with no family you're close to to get with, and you stand out compared to people who are actually grounded and have somewhere they're coming from to help them find out where they're going...
...but I think you understand that better than I.
At any rate, hows that piracy going? :rofl:
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 02:13:39 PM
I just never felt like I fit anywhere. I tried but I just didn't know how. Sometimes I think things would have been different if I weren't an only child. It's that sense of self thing. I just had no idea who I was or how to live. No perspective, so when I entered Straight I was like a lump of clay, ready for them to mold. I had no grounding outside of program belief. No one to bounce things off of and ask "is this OK?" "does this sound right to you?". I did what I was told because I really didn't know there was an alternative.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 02:15:33 PM
:D 8-)
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 17, 2007, 02:16:11 PM
It does suck when you see all the sheeple for what they are, though, dunnit. Using "love" as an excuse to do wtf ever they want as long as its within their hierarchial excuse machine, using their own worry and anxiety to excuse their bad judgement and selfishness and blaming the victim while they self-victimize for affection, and generally being giant fucksticks.
Oh, well. Can't change them, can't argue with them, 'cause we're not as bad as them, right?
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 02:17:36 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
You just self contradicted yourself.
You say the parents should be parents and look out for the kids, then say there is no single victim?
BRB gotta go stop my brains from leaking out of my ears.
Well, maybe it may be better understood if I said the entire family is affected and it becomes a family problem, not just a single person.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 17, 2007, 02:20:09 PM
It's nothing but a self-serving "yeah, but" self-victimization and ploy for attention and abdication of parental responsibilities.
We aren't here because the parents suffered with us, we're here becuase the parents took the easy way out for themselves.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 02:22:39 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""You just self contradicted yourself.
You say the parents should be parents and look out for the kids, then say there is no single victim?
BRB gotta go stop my brains from leaking out of my ears.
Well, maybe it may be better understood if I said the entire family is affected and it becomes a family problem, not just a single person.
Fucked my whole family up for a while, left it in splinters, separate camps, people no longer speaking and my wife pulling double-duty on damage control and being mom. So fuck a program. That's just my opinion, man, based on personal experience. Real experience Whoot-boy.
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 02:27:17 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""I realize i'm repeating this but why the hell are parents so damned self victimizing? Why the attentionwhoring?
You're the one who went through hell, not them... they just look for attention (well, the program parent) and act as if they are above reproach for anything they ever do regarding their child at all... unless they start attention whoring about OH MY POOR CHILD WAS ABUSED I WAS SO FOOLED but still go ME ME ME about it all.
Its like you're their pet, vicarious liver-through, or just a psychological appendage!!!
WTF is wrong with everyone? You don't parent to get the feel-good warm fuzzies about 'parenting' you do it for that person you created and needs you to survive until they can make it on their own.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Most of these parents can't really be bothered to actually parent their child. Then when behavioral problems (real or perceived) crop up, they panic and go running off for 'help'. Mine were too wrapped up in their own issues when I was growing up to really bother with me. I felt very alone (only child too). They separeted and then divorced when I was 14 and mom and I moved out. I had just started high school and was switching from being sheltered in private school my whole life to public. I did the normal smoking, drinking and general raising hell. Skipping school, got in a car accident, change of friends...ya know, all those 'warning signs' TBSs are so fond of. They got scared and put me in Straight. So you've got pretty much this empty vessel. Since mom and dad were so busy with their own lives and problems that they couldn't really be bothered to teach me anything about life, I really had no sense of self or roots. Then heap two years of cult brainwashing and send me off into the world to be a well adjusted adult. Riiiiiiiiight. :roll: I did tow the line for a while and dad got to brag about what a good parent he was and how much he sacrificed for me to be able to attend the wonderful program that I did and how it saved my life and taught us so much as a family ::puke:: , but as soon as I began to question what had really gone on, I was quickly given an 'exit plan' so to speak. As long as I rejected Straight and it's teachings I was cut off from the family.
True, Anne, in some cases the parents jump the gun and ship their kids off to be fixed without exploring other options first, others are checked out as parents to begin with, there are all types. Its awful you got sent to straight, its sounds like I raised more hell than you did when I was young than. I heard the horror stories about that place.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 02:27:19 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Heh. I eventually got my own will and sense of what is right and wrong and go by that... I take it you did too?
Yeah but it took me so damn long!! They ended up with so much control over me even after I got out because of the custody situation. That was harder on me than actually being in Straight. They had me by the balls and they knew it and used it. I honestly dont think I was able to really start to come out of the fog until my kids reached the age to where they couldn't take them or threaten to anymore. That's another thing that sucks. I actually did end up with problems with drinking and other drugs........after I got out. Self fulfilling prophecy dontchaknow. But......I ended up solving my problem on my own. I got tired of being hungover so I didn't drink so much, I got tired of being hooked on pills, so I went through the withdrawal and quit. When people get tired of behaving certain ways that cause them pain, they stop behaving like that. I know it sounds like an overs-simplification, but it's true.
Quote
It does suck when you see all the sheeple for what they are, though, dunnit. Using "love" as an excuse to do wtf ever they want as long as its within their hierarchial excuse machine, using their own worry and anxiety to excuse their bad judgement and selfishness and blaming the victim while they self-victimize for affection, and generally being giant fucksticks.
Oh, well. Can't change them, can't argue with them, 'cause we're not as bad as them, right?
Yepper!
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 02:28:09 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""You just self contradicted yourself.
You say the parents should be parents and look out for the kids, then say there is no single victim?
BRB gotta go stop my brains from leaking out of my ears.
Well, maybe it may be better understood if I said the entire family is affected and it becomes a family problem, not just a single person.
Yeah, that was the same bullshit Straight preached and Dad still thinks is true.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
True, Anne, in some cases the parents jump the gun and ship their kids off to be fixed without exploring other options first, others are checked out as parents to begin with, there are all types. Its awful you got sent to straight, its sounds like I raised more hell than you did when I was young than. I heard the horror stories about that place.
It was horrible. I was never physically abused there because I was too damn scared to say or do anything "wrong", but the emotional abuse was the worst part. The raps (LifeSteps). THAT is what fucked me up long term.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 17, 2007, 02:31:16 PM
Said straight was so much worse than some drunk frat boys who spiked her drink that it didn't even phase her.
:o
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 02:34:38 PM
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 17, 2007, 02:36:26 PM
Well, chalk up another mark for my whole idea that psychological rape is rape just like if it looks and quacks like a duck its a duck.
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 02:36:37 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Piracy is great!!!!! Grabbed the kids and a few of their friends last Sat. and cruised to Sarasota for the day. Dolphins riding the bow-wake, drinks at the tikibar and a sunset cruise home. Couldn't have been better.
:D 8-)
Cant get much better than that....... Finally living the good life with family.... Good for you Anne!!
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 02:46:59 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""Piracy is great!!!!! Grabbed the kids and a few of their friends last Sat. and cruised to Sarasota for the day. Dolphins riding the bow-wake, drinks at the tikibar and a sunset cruise home. Couldn't have been better.
:D 8-)
Cant get much better than that....... Finally living the good life with family.... Good for you Anne!!
Thanks but it's a shame that it had to take this long. My kids and I both missed out on a lot while wrapped up in that mentality.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 17, 2007, 02:48:05 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 03:01:25 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""Piracy is great!!!!! Grabbed the kids and a few of their friends last Sat. and cruised to Sarasota for the day. Dolphins riding the bow-wake, drinks at the tikibar and a sunset cruise home. Couldn't have been better.
:D 8-)
Cant get much better than that....... Finally living the good life with family.... Good for you Anne!!
Thanks but it's a shame that it had to take this long. My kids and I both missed out on a lot while wrapped up in that mentality.
I understand, I wish I could go back and get a Mulligan. I would have addressed a few things a lttle earlier and done things a lot differently. Those years she spent at ASR could have been spent with us at home......
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 03:04:51 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
I just hope that your parents aren't remote to your kids because of your little schism... that hurts them a lot. Oh, and you too.
Funny you should mention that. Dad and I are just now beginning to talk after about 6 years of total estrangement (and about 15 parially). During that 6 years he cut off my kids too and he had custody of the oldest for 3 years. They did that when I left my ex due to rampant cocaine use. That was tough love. I moved out cuz of the coke but I was smoking pot so I was just as bad, I needed to be cut off (even though I had two babies). "We'll take the babies though, don't you worry. They'll be fine. Here, just sign this paper so we can get medical treatment for them if we need to. Cusody? No, we're not taking your kids from you dear, this is just a little help".
Three years later I get custody of my kids back. :flame:
But back to your original question, yes....they cut off contact with my kids too.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 03:06:41 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""Piracy is great!!!!! Grabbed the kids and a few of their friends last Sat. and cruised to Sarasota for the day. Dolphins riding the bow-wake, drinks at the tikibar and a sunset cruise home. Couldn't have been better.
:D 8-)
Cant get much better than that....... Finally living the good life with family.... Good for you Anne!!
Thanks but it's a shame that it had to take this long. My kids and I both missed out on a lot while wrapped up in that mentality.
I understand, I wish I could go back and get a Mulligan. I would have addressed a few things a lttle earlier and done things a lot differently. Those years she spent at ASR could have been spent with us at home......
It's not just those years that have been lost. It's so much more that you'll never understand.
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 17, 2007, 03:08:00 PM
Oy.
Post by: Anonymous on January 17, 2007, 03:34:13 PM
Quote
I understand, I wish I could go back and get a Mulligan. I would have addressed a few things a lttle earlier and done things a lot differently. Those years she spent at ASR could have been spent with us at home......
Then why in God's name are you on here, on post one thousand, four hundred and thirty-three, on a constant crusade to discredit Fornits and uphold programs and desperately trying to convince parents reading this that everything will be all right if they send their kid away?!
WHY?!
For the love of fuck, Who, don't you understand why we're here?
Post by: Troll Control on January 17, 2007, 03:36:26 PM
that's the typical pp response.
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 03:40:14 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
You just self contradicted yourself.
Redundant. :D
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 03:47:37 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
[Yeah, I know what you mean. Most of these parents can't really be bothered to actually parent their child. Then when behavioral problems (real or perceived) crop up, they panic and go running off for 'help'. Mine were too wrapped up in their own issues when I was growing up to really bother with me. I felt very alone (only child too). They separeted and then divorced when I was 14 and mom and I moved out. I had just started high school and was switching from being sheltered in private school my whole life to public. I did the normal smoking, drinking and general raising hell. Skipping school, got in a car accident, change of friends...ya know, all those 'warning signs' TBSs are so fond of. They got scared and put me in Straight. So you've got pretty much this empty vessel. Since mom and dad were so busy with their own lives and problems that they couldn't really be bothered to teach me anything about life, I really had no sense of self or roots. Then heap two years of cult brainwashing and send me off into the world to be a well adjusted adult. Riiiiiiiiight. :roll:
And you can add to the reality of parents not wanting to be parents the fact that back then (and now to a good extent) parents' lack of real knowledge about drugs put them in a vulnerable position that could be easily taken advantage of by the program pushers.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 03:54:34 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
QuoteI understand, I wish I could go back and get a Mulligan. I would have addressed a few things a lttle earlier and done things a lot differently. Those years she spent at ASR could have been spent with us at home......
Then why in God's name are you on here, on post one thousand, four hundred and thirty-three, on a constant crusade to discredit Fornits and uphold programs and desperately trying to convince parents reading this that everything will be all right if they send their kid away?!
WHY?!
For the love of fuck, Who, don't you understand why we're here?
He loves the abuse. Besides, what else has he got to do except figure out how to work the words "cock-trap" and "gruntskid" into his vocabulary?
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 04:00:56 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
hierarchial excuse machine
You know where I can get a good deal on one of these? :lol:
Post by: Anonymous on January 17, 2007, 04:02:04 PM
Is your incredible anger at parents due to the fact that your relationship with your own was so damaged? It seems to really anger you that there are parents whose kids come out of a program and don't hate them and families that have learned to heal. There are also parents, like Who, who listen to their kids about the whole program experience.
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 04:03:54 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Well, maybe it may be better understood if I said the entire family is affected and it becomes a family problem, not just a single person.
(http://http://gamesmuseum.uwaterloo.ca/VirtualExhibits/TV%20Games/allinfamily/All%20in%20the%20Family%20Box.JPG)
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 04:05:18 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I guess, Anne, you don't know what would have happened to you (as compared to your friends) if you had not gone to Straight.
Is your incredible anger at parents due to the fact that your relationship with your own was so damaged? It seems to really anger you that there are parents whose kids come out of a program and don't hate them and families that have learned to heal. There are also parents, like Who, who listen to their kids about the whole program experience.
Does it anger you that there's a party in your mouth and everyone's coming? :rofl:
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 04:07:25 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""He loves the abuse. Besides, what else has he got to do except figure out how to work the words "cock-trap" and "gruntskid" into his vocabulary?QuoteI understand, I wish I could go back and get a Mulligan. I would have addressed a few things a lttle earlier and done things a lot differently. Those years she spent at ASR could have been spent with us at home......
Then why in God's name are you on here, on post one thousand, four hundred and thirty-three, on a constant crusade to discredit Fornits and uphold programs and desperately trying to convince parents reading this that everything will be all right if they send their kid away?!
WHY?!
For the love of fuck, Who, don't you understand why we're here?
Because in hindsight (which is 20/20) I see that I could have done things differently to dissuade her from going down the path she was on, put her on the right path myself, read the signs better and help her early. I think I could have avoided having her attend ASR. I still think it was the right thing to do, based on the circumstances and how far down the path she got unchecked.
I am not trying to discredit anyone. I am just adding a different perspective or balance to the discussion. I don?t advocate all programs or that all kids should go to one, never have.
If parents hear fornits say that all school are no good, they are not going to believe you?.if they hear a balanced argument that will help them chose a healthier path for their child via , local services, which are the better schools, who should I speak to etc.
Personally if I were a parent looking for help, I would like to be steered away from Straight and maybe towards a TBS like ASR. If I heard that every school in the world is no good I think I would smell an agenda and move on. This isn?t helping anyone, especially the child.
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""You just self contradicted yourself.
You say the parents should be parents and look out for the kids, then say there is no single victim?
BRB gotta go stop my brains from leaking out of my ears.
Well, maybe it may be better understood if I said the entire family is affected and it becomes a family problem, not just a single person.
Fucked my whole family up for a while, left it in splinters, separate camps, people no longer speaking and my wife pulling double-duty on damage control and being mom. So fuck a program. That's just my opinion, man, based on personal experience. Real experience Whoot-boy.
What say you, Who?
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 04:16:06 PM
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 04:19:10 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TheWho""True, Anne, in some cases the parents jump the gun and ship their kids off to be fixed without exploring other options first, others are checked out as parents to begin with, there are all types. Its awful you got sent to straight, its sounds like I raised more hell than you did when I was young than. I heard the horror stories about that place.
It was horrible. I was never physically abused there because I was too damn scared to say or do anything "wrong", but the emotional abuse was the worst part. The raps (LifeSteps). THAT is what fucked me up long term.
I always like to make the point that anyone who was in Straight was physically abused just by being there, but I know what you're saying; there are degrees of abuse, of course. But we had to sit up straight for 12 hours a day, or else... That fits the description of physical abuse.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 04:21:46 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Because in hindsight (which is 20/20) I see that I could have done things differently to dissuade her from going down the path she was on, put her on the right path myself, read the signs better and help her early. I think I could have avoided having her attend ASR. I still think it was the right thing to do, based on the circumstances and how far down the path she got unchecked.
Jesus, what a feeble bastard you are. If you had the opportunity to go back, you should check yourself. Accountability, ol' man, I gotta face up to it, so do you, omniscient as you think you are.
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 04:24:02 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Because in hindsight (which is 20/20) I see that I could have done things differently to dissuade her from going down the path she was on, put her on the right path myself, read the signs better and help her early. I think I could have avoided having her attend ASR. I still think it was the right thing to do, based on the circumstances and how far down the path she got unchecked.
Jesus, what a feeble bastard you are. If you had the opportunity to go back, you should check yourself. Accountability, ol' man, I gotta face up to it, so do you, omniscient as you think you are.
of course!!! The whole family, Everyone, myself included. I really only have control over my own actions but I could have helped her more.......
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 04:28:31 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""Quote from: ""TheWho""
Because in hindsight (which is 20/20) I see that I could have done things differently to dissuade her from going down the path she was on, put her on the right path myself, read the signs better and help her early. I think I could have avoided having her attend ASR. I still think it was the right thing to do, based on the circumstances and how far down the path she got unchecked.
Jesus, what a feeble bastard you are. If you had the opportunity to go back, you should check yourself. Accountability, ol' man, I gotta face up to it, so do you, omniscient as you think you are.
of course!!! The whole family, Everyone, myself included. I really only have control over my own actions but I could have helped her more.......
So you're admitting you're a somewhat fucked-up parent who hired a goon squad to parent by proxy?
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 04:30:24 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
So you're admitting you're a somewhat fucked-up parent who hired a goon squad to parent by proxy?
It sure sounded like it...
Post by: Anonymous on January 17, 2007, 04:34:04 PM
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 04:37:40 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
ZenAgent, I believe that is what Who is saying. He is saying that if he could go back, he could parent better, provide more checks, and a program might not have been needed. He is not saying he did not make parenting mistakes. He is saying that due to a combination of parenting being lax in monitoring where his daughter was heading and her own choices, out of love and concern, h chose to send her to ASR. His daughter is not reporting any abuse from either wilderness or ASR. He has a good relationship with her today and she pursued her education. I think his situation is different from that in your family, where your stepdaughter was sent away by a negligent parent without your approval or input. It also sounds like PV was not a program like ASR and had much more potential for abuse.
I'd like to take a look around ASR sometime...would this be possible?
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 04:40:47 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
ZenAgent, I believe that is what Who is saying. He is saying that if he could go back, he could parent better, provide more checks, and a program might not have been needed. He is not saying he did not make parenting mistakes. He is saying that due to a combination of parenting being lax in monitoring where his daughter was heading and her own choices, out of love and concern, h chose to send her to ASR. His daughter is not reporting any abuse from either wilderness or ASR. He has a good relationship with her today and she pursued her education. I think his situation is different from that in your family, where your stepdaughter was sent away by a negligent parent without your approval or input. It also sounds like PV was not a program like ASR and had much more potential for abuse.
Thank you for the help, there,Guest, You are very articulate and accurate.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 04:41:52 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""ZenAgent, I believe that is what Who is saying. He is saying that if he could go back, he could parent better, provide more checks, and a program might not have been needed. He is not saying he did not make parenting mistakes. He is saying that due to a combination of parenting being lax in monitoring where his daughter was heading and her own choices, out of love and concern, h chose to send her to ASR. His daughter is not reporting any abuse from either wilderness or ASR. He has a good relationship with her today and she pursued her education. I think his situation is different from that in your family, where your stepdaughter was sent away by a negligent parent without your approval or input. It also sounds like PV was not a program like ASR and had much more potential for abuse.
Thank you for the help, there,Guest, You are very articulate and accurate.
Sending her to ASR was a mistake, then? I mean, you are saying you could do a better job yourself now?
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 04:45:43 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""Guest""ZenAgent, I believe that is what Who is saying. He is saying that if he could go back, he could parent better, provide more checks, and a program might not have been needed. He is not saying he did not make parenting mistakes. He is saying that due to a combination of parenting being lax in monitoring where his daughter was heading and her own choices, out of love and concern, h chose to send her to ASR. His daughter is not reporting any abuse from either wilderness or ASR. He has a good relationship with her today and she pursued her education. I think his situation is different from that in your family, where your stepdaughter was sent away by a negligent parent without your approval or input. It also sounds like PV was not a program like ASR and had much more potential for abuse.I'd like to take a look around ASR sometime...would this be possible?
Sure you can, we just drove in and asked to speak with someone from admissions and spent a good part of the day there, had lunch and then we were able to wander the campus ourselves. We spoke to a few kids and left. Probably there 4 hours in total.
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 04:46:42 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
It also sounds like PV was not a program like ASR and had much more potential for abuse.
Not a program like ASR in what ways?
ZenAgent: You recall the year of that Butthole Surfers show? 85-86?
Post by: Joyce Harris on January 17, 2007, 04:47:49 PM
"Is your incredible anger towards parents due to the fact that your relationship with your own was so damaged?"
I'm a program-parent.
I don't interpret Anne Bonney's postings to reflect "incredible anger towards parents."
Many of Anne's postings are actually supportive of parents; IF the parents are not trying to promote programs, or simply making attempts to justify "why" they put their child in a program.
Most, if not all, negative, abusive postings made to, or about me--have been made by GUEST/ANON posters.
Post by: Deborah on January 17, 2007, 04:49:06 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Sorry guest, this is what you get here if you don?t embrace the group position or take a viewpoint outside of theirs. Parents move on before anyone can get a message to them. Its more about dumping their anger in a post as apposed to helping any kids, its too bad. I think there is a lot of value that Fornits can add to a parents decision instead of just trashing their point of view and chasing them off.
The "guest" is well aware of what happens on Fornits. She is no stranger. There will always be parents such as yourself who condone the abuse and consider it 'therapy'.
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 04:49:19 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Sending her to ASR was a mistake, then? I mean, you are saying you could do a better job yourself now?Quote from: ""Guest""ZenAgent, I believe that is what Who is saying. He is saying that if he could go back, he could parent better, provide more checks, and a program might not have been needed. He is not saying he did not make parenting mistakes. He is saying that due to a combination of parenting being lax in monitoring where his daughter was heading and her own choices, out of love and concern, h chose to send her to ASR. His daughter is not reporting any abuse from either wilderness or ASR. He has a good relationship with her today and she pursued her education. I think his situation is different from that in your family, where your stepdaughter was sent away by a negligent parent without your approval or input. It also sounds like PV was not a program like ASR and had much more potential for abuse.
Thank you for the help, there,Guest, You are very articulate and accurate.
If I was faced with the same decision, all being the same I would send her to ASR in a heart beat, thats easy becasue I know now it was a success. But if I could go back 4 years before that time I think I could have prevented her from going becasue I would better know the warning signs and have the advantage of knowing what path she was on and how I could have helped her better myself.
Post by: Deborah on January 17, 2007, 04:56:46 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
ZenAgent, I believe that is what Who is saying. He is saying that if he could go back, he could parent better, provide more checks, and a program might not have been needed. He is not saying he did not make parenting mistakes. He is saying that due to a combination of parenting being lax in monitoring where his daughter was heading and her own choices, out of love and concern, h chose to send her to ASR. His daughter is not reporting any abuse from either wilderness or ASR. He has a good relationship with her today and she pursued her education. I think his situation is different from that in your family, where your stepdaughter was sent away by a negligent parent without your approval or input. It also sounds like PV was not a program like ASR and had much more potential for abuse.
And he doesn't need a 'public defender'. How do you come by your story? He stated on Fornits that she didn't persue education, split to NY and didn't talk to him for 2 years. For all anyone knows he's a Ed Con who never had a kid in a program.
Rarely does a kid come out of program and report abuse. Ya'll just don't get the conditioning, do you? Would your son have told you about Carlbrook if you hadn't asked specifics? No. Why do you think that is?
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 05:00:13 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""Guest""ZenAgent, I believe that is what Who is saying. He is saying that if he could go back, he could parent better, provide more checks, and a program might not have been needed. He is not saying he did not make parenting mistakes. He is saying that due to a combination of parenting being lax in monitoring where his daughter was heading and her own choices, out of love and concern, h chose to send her to ASR. His daughter is not reporting any abuse from either wilderness or ASR. He has a good relationship with her today and she pursued her education. I think his situation is different from that in your family, where your stepdaughter was sent away by a negligent parent without your approval or input. It also sounds like PV was not a program like ASR and had much more potential for abuse.
And he doesn't need a 'public defender'. How do you come by your story? He stated on Fornits that she didn't persue education, split to NY and didn't talk to him for 2 years. For all anyone knows he's a Ed Con who never had a kid in a program.
Rarely does a kid come out of program and report abuse. Ya'll just don't get the conditioning, do you? Would your son have told you about Carlbrook if you hadn't asked specifics? No. Why do you think that is?
I saw this post... It wasnt mine. My daughter didnt move to New York.
Post by: Anonymous on January 17, 2007, 05:05:01 PM
I listened to my kid during the time he was in the program and after. It did not take asking specific questions. When I heard something from my kid that I didn't like the sound of, I was all over the senior staff. Nothing stopped kids from telling parents what was going on at the school.
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 05:05:13 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Sorry guest, this is what you get here if you don?t embrace the group position or take a viewpoint outside of theirs. Parents move on before anyone can get a message to them. Its more about dumping their anger in a post as apposed to helping any kids, its too bad. I think there is a lot of value that Fornits can add to a parents decision instead of just trashing their point of view and chasing them off.
The "guest" is well aware of what happens on Fornits. She is no stranger. There will always be parents such as yourself who condone the abuse and consider it 'therapy'.
I'm glad you pointed this out, even though it should be pretty obvious.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 05:10:05 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""Guest""It also sounds like PV was not a program like ASR and had much more potential for abuse.Not a program like ASR in what ways?
ZenAgent: You recall the year of that Butthole Surfers show? 85-86?
That sounds about right, but Bob Mould's album came out in...88, I think. I remember they were close together, timewise. 84-98=somewhat foggy memory, due to society's ills, yeah...that's what it was. I remember the B-holes were louder than God.
Post by: Deborah on January 17, 2007, 05:10:26 PM
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 456#160456 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=160456#160456)
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Quote
On 2006-01-01 13:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"not if they are living in YOUR house without paying rent, bills....If you don't want to follow the rules, get a job, get your own place, fix your own meals, figure out your own transportation, have your own life. And finally be happy following your own rules."
Exactly what happened. My daughter moved to NYC and I only heard from her once in 2 years, still never went to school.
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""Guest""ZenAgent, I believe that is what Who is saying. He is saying that if he could go back, he could parent better, provide more checks, and a program might not have been needed. He is not saying he did not make parenting mistakes. He is saying that due to a combination of parenting being lax in monitoring where his daughter was heading and her own choices, out of love and concern, h chose to send her to ASR. His daughter is not reporting any abuse from either wilderness or ASR. He has a good relationship with her today and she pursued her education. I think his situation is different from that in your family, where your stepdaughter was sent away by a negligent parent without your approval or input. It also sounds like PV was not a program like ASR and had much more potential for abuse.
And he doesn't need a 'public defender'. How do you come by your story? He stated on Fornits that she didn't persue education, split to NY and didn't talk to him for 2 years. For all anyone knows he's a Ed Con who never had a kid in a program.
Rarely does a kid come out of program and report abuse. Ya'll just don't get the conditioning, do you? Would your son have told you about Carlbrook if you hadn't asked specifics? No. Why do you think that is?
Yet two more things that I'm glad you brought attention to, Deborah. I was thinking the same thing reading this, but let it go figuring someone else would hit on it and you didn't let me down. :)
It took me 20 YEARS to begin wondering about that weird place I got sent to...
TO ALL PARENTS: These program pushers are creeps; they are best to be avoided.
Crooked as a barrell of snakes they are, the bloody lot of them!
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 05:11:27 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""Ganja""Quote from: ""Guest""It also sounds like PV was not a program like ASR and had much more potential for abuse.Not a program like ASR in what ways?
ZenAgent: You recall the year of that Butthole Surfers show? 85-86?
That sounds about right, but Bob Mould's album came out in...88, I think. I remember they were close together, timewise. 84-98=somewhat foggy memory, due to society's ills, yeah...that's what it was. I remember the B-holes were louder than God.
Was Gibby lighting his hand on fire?
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 05:13:14 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""Was Gibby lighting his hand on fire?Quote from: ""Ganja""Quote from: ""Guest""It also sounds like PV was not a program like ASR and had much more potential for abuse.Not a program like ASR in what ways?
ZenAgent: You recall the year of that Butthole Surfers show? 85-86?
That sounds about right, but Bob Mould's album came out in...88, I think. I remember they were close together, timewise. 84-98=somewhat foggy memory, due to society's ills, yeah...that's what it was. I remember the B-holes were louder than God.
Hee...No, but I'd like to have seen that. Paul Leary kept doing that shrieking thing he's quit doing. The Shah Sleeps in Lee Harvey's Grave...
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 05:14:16 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 05:14:32 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I believe Who said that after the initial return from ASR and a period of living on her own and testing the waters, that he had/has a good relationship with his daughter and that she is going to school. Who, is that correct?
I listened to my kid during the time he was in the program and after. It did not take asking specific questions. When I heard something from my kid that I didn't like the sound of, I was all over the senior staff. Nothing stopped kids from telling parents what was going on at the school.
That is true, thanks. There is a post under my name that states she moved to New York and never talked to me for 2 years. She had a difficult transition period after finishing up at ASR for a few weeks but got back on track on her own. They have since addressed this and I heard they have a smoother transition in place. I was a little worried at the time but she just wanted to see her old friends and eventually found she had grown and moved on and develped new friends.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 05:15:56 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""I believe Who said that after the initial return from ASR and a period of living on her own and testing the waters, that he had/has a good relationship with his daughter and that she is going to school. Who, is that correct?
I listened to my kid during the time he was in the program and after. It did not take asking specific questions. When I heard something from my kid that I didn't like the sound of, I was all over the senior staff. Nothing stopped kids from telling parents what was going on at the school.
That is true, thanks. There is a post under my name that states she moved to New York and never talked to me for 2 years. She had a difficult transition period after finishing up at ASR for a few weeks but got back on track on her own. They have since addressed this and I heard they have a smoother transition in place. I was a little worried at the time but she just wanted to see her old friends and eventually found she had grown and moved on and develped new friends.
Are you the guest, Whoster?
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 05:17:32 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Are you the guest, Whoster?
Crossed my mind too, but I don't think it's him; it looks more like "Charly."
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 05:18:50 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Then I guess you's lyin.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 456#160456 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=160456#160456)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Quote
On 2006-01-01 13:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"not if they are living in YOUR house without paying rent, bills....If you don't want to follow the rules, get a job, get your own place, fix your own meals, figure out your own transportation, have your own life. And finally be happy following your own rules."
Exactly what happened. My daughter moved to NYC and I only heard from her once in 2 years, still never went to school.
I dont know where this came from, Deborah. I never would say anything like that.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 05:18:51 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""Are you the guest, Whoster?Crossed my mind too, but I don't think it's him; it looks more like "Charly."
Guest knows Whodoo's business, and a fair bit about mine. Creepy.
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 05:19:18 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Hee...No, but I'd like to have seen that. Paul Leary kept doing that shrieking thing he's quit doing. The Shah Sleeps in Lee Harvey's Grave...
My band opened for them twice and I'm wondering if I played that show you attended. I'll pm you with the name.
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 05:21:06 PM
Quote
Are you the guest, Whoster?
Ask Deborah, she can check and let you know.
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 05:22:13 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteAre you the guest, Whoster?
Ask Deborah, she can check and let you know.
Chain-of-command and all that, eh? :lol:
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 05:22:17 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteAre you the guest, Whoster?
Ask Deborah, she can check and let you know.
You can just say yes or no...I guess you're aware your credibility is nil...
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 05:26:31 PM
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 05:29:10 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Sorry, no I am not posting as "Guest". I guess I initially thought if you felt I was decieving you by posting Anon, why would you believe me to say it wasnt me....
Good point.. :rofl:
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 05:36:10 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I guess, Anne, you don't know what would have happened to you (as compared to your friends) if you had not gone to Straight.
No I don't. But I can make a fairly educated guess by taking all these things into consideration. As I said, I was the lightweight of my group. If they were much 'worse off' than I was, and my parents were assured I'd end up deadinsaneorinjail the one would assume they would have been diagnosed similarly.....and in fact, indirectly were by Straight and my parents. They were sure these particular 3 friends of mine would 'amount to no good'. One is a vice pres. for Raymond James, married for 18 years, two kids, great life. One is married, 14 years, two kids, stay at home mom (used to be a marketing exec.), good church going girl, great life. The other is a nurse, never married but in relationship for 10 years, no kids, travels all over, great life. All have good, real relationships with their parents. All grew out of the behaviors that were causing all the panic within 5-8 years.
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Is your incredible anger at parents due to the fact that your relationship with your own was so damaged? It seems to really anger you that there are parents whose kids come out of a program and don't hate them and families that have learned to heal.
Where do you see this 'incredible' anger? Sure, I'm angry about what was done to me and my family. I'm angry about what was stolen from me that I can never get back. I'm angry about how it effected my kids. I've got a right to that anger, but I'm a whole lot less angry than I used to be. It's taken the last 5 or 6 years to get here, but I'm here.
Straight took away what tiny sense of identity I did have and replaced it with theirs. I had no real foundation from my childhood, so I was ripe for re-education. When I got out I was surrounded by program parents and like-minded people. They used Straight as a weapon for almost 20 years afterwards against me. It hasn't been until my kids were old enough for them not to be able to fuck with me anymore, being away from my dad and all his judgements and criticisms and continued attempts to make me 'tow the program line' and finding Fornits that I've been able to even begin to comprehend all that was done to me and how many different ways it effected and still does effect my life and the lives of those who truly love me. It's only been recently that I've been able to figure out who I am. What I believe in and what my values and morals are. edited to add.....and then edited again cuz it was all over the place, still is but it's better. Sorry for the ramble.......Which is the only time any changes I made in how I live my life meant anything. I ended up with some problems with drugs and drinking but this is how I see it, having the benefit of hindsight and all the other knowledge I've gained over the last few years. At worst, the program was abusive, mentally, physically and emotionally. At best it simply delays and/or exacerbates the growing up process. The things that I did that caused concern for my dad when I first got out were a product of the war on drugs/fear culture that Straight capitalized on to begin with and counted on to keep us. They normal adolescent behaviors if somewhat worse due to what I had been through. But they happened at "inappropiate times" (more socially unacceptable) now...getting drunk and passsing out is par for the course in college when the only person effected is you..not so much if your'e married w/ two kids. So, it happens when I'm an adult, instead of when it's still socially acceptable and it happens in these tiny little increments b/c remember, whenever I stepped out of line, Dad and the courts were right there to jerk me back. So, taking that plus the examples of my friends prior to Straight, I'd have been much better off left alone.
I struggled for so long not knowing....and not even knowing that I didn't know...know what I mean? :silly: My self worth and value was wholly dependent on how my father felt about me and how I was living, which meant that it was wholly dependent on program thinking. I had no other reality to compare it to so I couldn't begin to understand yet. Like I said, it wasn't until I was truly[/b] out from under their control did I even start to find some semblance of peace and happiness. I didn't know life could be like this. I believed them for for too long.
Quote
There are also parents, like Who, who listen to their kids about the whole program experience.
The Who is hearing what he wants to hear.
Post by: Anonymous on January 17, 2007, 05:36:55 PM
AND, you just posted a bold-face LIE, and Deborah nailed your lying butt.
You need to move on!
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 05:39:26 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
THE WHO, having a daughter who moves away, and who doesn't speak to you for 2 years, is a LOT MORE than merely having "a difficult transition period."
AND, you just posted a bold-face LIE, and Deborah nailed your lying butt.
I want you to move on!
This really wasnt my post! I dont know what to say....it isnt a lie. My Daughter never moved away.
Post by: Anonymous on January 17, 2007, 05:47:42 PM
You are a liar.
So, if your daughter didn't "move away," how do you describe her "being gone" away from your lying butt for 2 years?
Is it just that you don't like the word "move?"
You LIED.
Just admit it, and then, keep posting your B.S.
You lack any credibility; and are beginning to sound like a cry-baby.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 05:52:06 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
it looks more like "Charly."
That's what I was thinking.
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 05:55:22 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
WHO, you are agruing with yourself. IT WAS YOUR POST!
You are a liar.
So, if your daughter didn't "move away," how do you describe her "being gone" away from your lying butt for 2 years?
Is it just that you don't like the word "move?"
You LIED.
Just admit it, and then, keep posting your B.S.
You lack any credibility; and are beginning to sound like a cry-baby.
Sorry, I wiped my tears away and I am starting to put myself back together again.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 17, 2007, 06:01:29 PM
Post by: Dr Fucktard on January 17, 2007, 06:11:11 PM
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 06:17:57 PM
Muwaaaahahahahahahahaah
::armed:: ::armed:: ::unhappy:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: ::smokingun:: ::rocker:: ::rocker:: ::drummer:: ::rocker:: ::drummer:: ::cheers:: :smokin: ::bandit:: ::cheers:: ::cheers:: ::bandit:: ::birthday:: :silly: ::ftard::
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 08:04:16 PM
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Who you seem to want others to accept your experience being a positive one as the norm.I don?t know if it is the norm or not, I just find it amazing that many here on fornits feel not one person has ever benefited from a TBS ever. I am saying I know of a few people who did well in one of these TBS and based on this I am sure there are others that did well also. I just feel statistically this must be true. I believe there are kids who did well and kids who didn?t, you and many others are taking the hardened position of denial that no one ever benefited.
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If it was things like fornits wouldn't exist.
So you are saying the mere existence of fornits makes your position true?
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You also claim that your daughter attending ASR was a "family experience" Nihil is correct, that's bullshit. It's something programs tell parents and something parents tell themselves to make themselves feel better.
It doesn?t appear that you or Niles ever had a tragedy in your family. If a family member has cancer the whole family suffers, it is a family problem, everyone needs to be involved. I think the mentality (and I hear it here on fornits more often) that the child needs to get shipped off to get fixed is more bs than what I claim.
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You also claim to add a differing perspective for parents to take into consideration, and without that perspective parents would simply move on and not pay attention to us at all. This is simply not the case and it only stems from your own self inflated view of yourself
This has been really big for me and I am amazed that you don?t see it. Lets say you enter a discussion forum on taxation and every thread you read is ? pro tax?, everyone is saying ?Taxes are good, they grow the economy? and thread after thread you don?t see one person who is against taxation, finally you find one guy who says taxes are too high, he starts to tell his views and they rip him apart until he finally leaves. The person cruising the site will quickly realize that balanced discussion isn?t wanted. It is a dumping ground for people to express their opinion knowing everyone will agree with them and they can pat each other on the back.
Can you point to many balanced discussions or people who have been here on fornits for awhile who support TBS?s whos opinions are accepted or respected. I haven?t seen anyone yet, although I don?t read all the thread here so I cant say for sure.
Take the top 100 posters here on Fornits, how many are pro TBS,Wilderness?
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Now if you actually backed up some of your claims about TBS's than perhaps but until you do as I said before you're simply spewing off propoganda. Nothing more.
I think I have been very clear on where my information on TBS?s comes from:
A) My Daughter attending
B) Other parents and their children who have attended
C) what I have read here and learned elsewhere from reading.
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You also claim that the basis for your advocating ASR is that your daughter was a success. My question to then is this: Would your daughter say the same thing? You stated eariler that having to do it all over again you would in a heart beat. Would your daughter go through it again in a heart beat?
I never asked her if she would go thru it again, so I honestly don?t know. I know if someone asked me if I would ever want to go thru highschool again I would say no way.
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Who I can promise you that if you asked my parents they would claim HLA saved my life and that without it I'd be deadorinjail. The reality of the situation is that HLA scarred me for life and I would have been a great deal better off had I never even heard of the place. Sometimes parents delude themselves into thinking they did the right thing by sending their kid to these places because its much easier than accepting the truth, they sent their kids off to be abused.I am sorry to hear that and you may be right. These places are not for everyone and some places are not good period. I really don?t think parents delude themselves although I know most of you think I am delusional myself. I think parents , like kids, come in all forms and each situation is different.
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I'm also still confused on why you demand others back up their claims, yet you refuse to do the same. If you did you'd probably find people being much more open to having a real discourse with you. At least I would.
I typically don?t demand others to back up their claims without producing them myself. If I say; ? 6 months ago fornits was a lot harsher to parents then they are now, they seem to have eased a bit? and someone says that?s BS prove it!!
How much work would that be? Its obviously just the guys gut feel from being involved and reading the posts. It would take months of looking at posts to come up with a reliable number. Some things are assumed to be opinions unlees you start using hard numbers. If the same guy said ?6 months ago 700 posters abused new parents coming onto fornits? and now there are only 500? I would question where the numbers came from and probably ask, yes.
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As it stands however you make claim after claim backing up nothing and eventually reach a point where as you say "you ignore post from specific users" namely me in this case. You can justify it however you like but the truth of the matter is that you ignore my post because I hold you accountable.
My claims are my own opinions. I suggested that you ignore my posts if they were that objectionable to you.
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I'd like to see you back up your statement that I claimed the best way to handle teen issues was to ignore them. Either back it up or acknowledge you were wrong. Do that simple thing and I'll let the rest go.
Actually I don?t think I said that. I believe it was ?My analogy would, yes, a majority of posters, here on Fornits use to suggest that doing nothing was the best course of action for kids who were in trouble? not you specifically.
I didn?t mention a specific number of people or names of people either. There used to be (6 months ago , to my recollection) many responses to questions to the effect, leave the kid alone and see what happens, let them get thru it on their own etc. which to me is to doing nothing. We had a discussion once where we were talking about a hypothetical kid who had HIV and left his needles on the floor in the hallway where his 2 year old sister was playing and nothing the parents did could stop this, and there were many in that discussion who thought removal of this kid from the house was not warranted and would have been abusive!!
Post by: Deborah on January 17, 2007, 08:54:36 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
This has been really big for me and I am amazed that you don?t see it. Lets say you enter a discussion forum on taxation and every thread you read is ? pro tax?, everyone is saying ?Taxes are good, they grow the economy? and thread after thread you don?t see one person who is against taxation, finally you find one guy who says taxes are too high, he starts to tell his views and they rip him apart until he finally leaves. The person cruising the site will quickly realize that balanced discussion isn?t wanted. It is a dumping ground for people to express their opinion knowing everyone will agree with them and they can pat each other on the back.
What you just described is ST. Your analogy is not appropriate for Fornits. This is first-and-foremost a survivor site. Not a NPOV discussion on Taxation. But, then you know that. And you also know that when a real parent, not some troll, comes along there is dialogue. But, oh my god.... the occassional slur insults their sensibilities and because they can't control everyone on the forum with THEIR needs, they're out of here. Guess what, that's their choice. And I doubt Fornits will ever change so they feel comfortable. They'd have no one else to talk to, cause everyone else would leave.
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Can you point to many balanced discussions or people who have been here on fornits for awhile who support TBS?s whos opinions are accepted or respected.
Are you implying that survivors sh0uld accept and respect the opinions of program apoplogists? There are actually a few, Buzzkill comes to mind. But then, she's not here hawking programs and isn't a shrinking violet.
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Take the top 100 posters here on Fornits, how many are pro TBS,Wilderness?
Again, what the hell are you implying? What IS your point? You do know which forum you're on, don't you? So you'd have Fornits become a 'balanced' site where 'softer', 'better' programs can be peddled? Jesus Christ Who, go start your own forum.
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My claims are my own opinions. I suggested that you ignore my posts if they were that objectionable to you.
Just as you sh0uld avoid Fornits if it's so objectionable to you.
And, what do you mean that wasn't your post? Has your name on it and no one else can post with it. So out with it, what the hell are you implying by denying it's your's?
Post by: RobertBruce on January 17, 2007, 09:14:20 PM
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I don?t know if it is the norm or not, I just find it amazing that many here on fornits feel not one person has ever benefited from a TBS ever. I am saying I know of a few people who did well in one of these TBS and based on this I am sure there are others that did well also. I just feel statistically this must be true. I believe there are kids who did well and kids who didn?t, you and many others are taking the hardened position of denial that no one ever benefited.
I don't think that's accurate at all. I personally would never claim that no one has ever benefited from a TBS. In fact I've made many statements to the contrary. What I would, and what I think many posters on here would say is that the majority of students did not benefit from their time there. Can you accept this?
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So you are saying the mere existence of fornits makes your position true?
Fornits specifically no, however the drive behind fornits and other efforts to get some of these places shut down and or regulated. If things were humming along as many industry insiders would have you believe the movement would not exist. There would be many more satisifed customers so to speak.
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It doesn?t appear that you or Niles ever had a tragedy in your family. If a family member has cancer the whole family suffers, it is a family problem, everyone needs to be involved. I think the mentality (and I hear it here on fornits more often) that the child needs to get shipped off to get fixed is more bs than what I claim.
I have actually so I do know where you are coming from. Allow me to use your own analogy to explain where you're off on this. Let's say your father was dying of cancer, this is something that affects you, your children, your wife, your mother, your siblings all in a similar way. It is not however the same sort of suffering your father is going through. You are not experiecing the physical pain and the realization of impending death that he is dealing with. Same thing with parents sending kids off to TBS's. Perhaps it is a difficult and painfull decision, but it does not compare to what the child is going through. Not even close.
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This has been really big for me and I am amazed that you don?t see it. Lets say you enter a discussion forum on taxation and every thread you read is ? pro tax?, everyone is saying ?Taxes are good, they grow the economy? and thread after thread you don?t see one person who is against taxation, finally you find one guy who says taxes are too high, he starts to tell his views and they rip him apart until he finally leaves. The person cruising the site will quickly realize that balanced discussion isn?t wanted. It is a dumping ground for people to express their opinion knowing everyone will agree with them and they can pat each other on the back.
Can you point to many balanced discussions or people who have been here on fornits for awhile who support TBS?s whos opinions are accepted or respected. I haven?t seen anyone yet, although I don?t read all the thread here so I cant say for sure.
Take the top 100 posters here on Fornits, how many are pro TBS,Wilderness?
Let's flip that coin over for a second. Have you ever been to the hla board? If you like I can provide the link. There you will not find a single negative statement against HLA. Why? Because it's not allowed, the same as it was not allowed when we were incarcerated.This is an arena dedicated to exposing the truth about these places. The truth of the matter is that many of them are abusive. It isnt about reinforncing our own position, its about telling the truth. Differing view points are allowed and some have come on here and not as you've said, been torn apart. That being said perhaps the reason posters like you and Karen were attacked is due to your approach.
Quote
I think I have been very clear on where my information on TBS?s comes from:
A) My Daughter attending
B) Other parents and their children who have attended
C) what I have read here and learned elsewhere from reading.
Fine, a legitimate source for statements like "I noticed the kids in my daughters group really improving." Not the sort of blanket statements you make about the industry "improving" or "one kid in 30 years has killed himself in the TBS's." Or "TBS's are safer than public schools". Your experience doesn't give you that information and you have shown yourself to be unwilling to research the facts about any of it.
Quote
I never asked her if she would go thru it again, so I honestly don?t know. I know if someone asked me if I would ever want to go thru highschool again I would say no way.
Perhaps you should ask her. Also is the reason you wouldnt want to go through highschool again because you were abused there?
Quote
I typically don?t demand others to back up their claims without producing them myself. If I say; ? 6 months ago fornits was a lot harsher to parents then they are now, they seem to have eased a bit? and someone says that?s BS prove it!!
How much work would that be? Its obviously just the guys gut feel from being involved and reading the posts. It would take months of looking at posts to come up with a reliable number. Some things are assumed to be opinions unlees you start using hard numbers. If the same guy said ?6 months ago 700 posters abused new parents coming onto fornits? and now there are only 500? I would question where the numbers came from and probably ask, yes.
Okay, think back to the conversation you had with Dysfunction Deborah and I regarding the lack of a nurse at HLA. You repeatedly insisted that we had not establshed that there was a problem. We provided you with state regs regarding who can dispense meds proving that HLA had fallen below standards, we provided the staff listing showing that no one was qualified at the school to practice medicine or dispense meds, we provided comparisons between public schools and pharmacy's. We told you how the nurse they had on staff was fired and our inside sources had already informed us there was no plan to hire a replacement any time soon. After all of that you insisted that we had "proven" nothing, you even went so far as to claim that we had no inside information and HLA would be on top of any supposed leaks. Dysfunction showed you emails he had received from staffers detailing what a train wreck it was, yet you still you claimed it was fake. All the while demanding proof of our claims. You also found reason to attribute your claims to other people and then insist they back them up. Recall your conversation with Dysfunction regarding the amount of signatures? Now the shoe is on the other foot and I'm holding you to the same standards yet you don't see the need to provide evidence to support your claims. Why?
Quote
My claims are my own opinions. I suggested that you ignore my posts if they were that objectionable to you.
I don't find your opinions objectionable, your entitled to believe or feel whatever you want and I'll never say boo about it to you or anyone else. It's when you start showcasing your opinions as facts and handing out misinformation that the problem arises.
Quote
Actually I don?t think I said that. I believe it was ?My analogy would, yes, a majority of posters, here on Fornits use to suggest that doing nothing was the best course of action for kids who were in trouble? not you specifically.
Actually you did.
Quote
Exactly!! So at least we agree the car needs work !! 6 months ago you wouldn?t agree the car needed fixing?Posted: 09 Jan 2007 01:52 ..You lumped me into this category you claim is the majority of posters with nothing to back it up and I've been bringing it to your attention for the past week. Now that that's been establshed I'd like for you to either provide a statement I have made which suggest that I felt the best way to handle teen issues is to do nothing, or acknowledge that you made a mistake. Once either is done I'll not bring it up again.
Quote
I didn?t mention a specific number of people or names of people either. There used to be (6 months ago , to my recollection) many responses to questions to the effect, leave the kid alone and see what happens, let them get thru it on their own etc. which to me is to doing nothing. We had a discussion once where we were talking about a hypothetical kid who had HIV and left his needles on the floor in the hallway where his 2 year old sister was playing and nothing the parents did could stop this, and there were many in that discussion who thought removal of this kid from the house was not warranted and would have been abusive!!
Okay fine, and if you had said "a number of posters seem to feel the best way to handle these issues is to do nothing" then I probably never would have brought it up, but you said majority. I'm looking for a basis of this claim.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 09:16:51 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I don?t know if it is the norm or not, I just find it amazing that many here on fornits feel not one person has ever benefited from a TBS ever. I am saying I know of a few people who did well in one of these TBS and based on this I am sure there are others that did well also. I just feel statistically this must be true. I believe there are kids who did well and kids who didn?t, you and many others are taking the hardened position of denial that no one ever benefited
Back to the rape analogy. I ended up benefitting in some ways from, but that doesn't mean it was therapeutic adn doesn't negate the damage done in the process.
Quote
I never asked her if she would go thru it again, so I honestly don?t know.
I would think, after all that you've read and discussed here...that you'd be just the eentsiest bit curious about questions like that.
Quote
I know if someone asked me if I would ever want to go thru highschool again I would say no way.
That's completely different and you know it.
Quote
I am sorry to hear that and you may be right. These places are not for everyone and some places are not good period. I really don?t think parents delude themselves although I know most of you think I am delusional myself. I think parents , like kids, come in all forms and each situation is different.
What you're saying about ASR, our parents said about Straight and the rest. Does that not make you go back and rethink what you're saying? Does that not make you want to go and check with your daughter about some of these issues? Ask her to read this site and see if it sounds familiar to her. http://www.ex-cult.org/ (http://www.ex-cult.org/)
Quote
There used to be (6 months ago , to my recollection) many responses to questions to the effect, leave the kid alone and see what happens, let them get thru it on their own etc. which to me is to doing nothing.
Which I still advocate for the reasons I stated before. That's what worked for my friends who were all "worse off" than I was adn that's what worked for my daughter who was "worse off" than I was before Straight.
Quote
We had a discussion once where we were talking about a hypothetical kid who had HIV and left his needles on the floor in the hallway where his 2 year old sister was playing and nothing the parents did could stop this, and there were many in that discussion who thought removal of this kid from the house was not warranted and would have been abusive!!
Point me to that thread. I don't remember anything remotely like that.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 09:54:22 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
I always like to make the point that anyone who was in Straight was physically abused just by being there, but I know what you're saying; there are degrees of abuse, of course. But we had to sit up straight for 12 hours a day, or else... That fits the description of physical abuse.
Yeah, I see your point. I just saw so many people really get brutalized that I would feel funny even giving the appearance that I was saying what I went through was on the same level as what they did. I had said once that I was envious of "misbehavors" and that seemed to rub some people the wrong way. Maybe I phrased it wrong. I was envious of them having the guts to do it. I felt like I was a pussy. I gave in and gave up. Like I was a windup doll or something. Wind me up, point me in the direction you think I should go adn I'll go. I didn't fight adn I wish I had. Maybe I wouldn't have felt so helpless then and after. If I had, even only once, stood up for myself and said "no, this is fucking wrong....kiss my ass".
Oh well. At least I get to do that now to Virgil's face and there ain't shit he can do about it. Gonna take the boat by there soon. Anchor right off his dock, crank up the stereo and tell him what a fuckwad I think he is. ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::fuckoff:: ::cheers:: :smokin:
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 10:01:05 PM
From:
HANDBOOK OF PREVENTIVE
INTERVENTIONS FOR ADULTS
Edited by
Catherine N. Dulmus
Lisa A. Rapp-Paglicci
INDICATED PREVENTIVE INTERVENTIONS
FOR PARENTING
This section summarizes indicated interventions that have been successful in
promoting positive family interactions and improving parenting skills. Three
parenting programs are included: Multisystemic Therapy (Henggeler, Schoenwald,
Borduin, Rowland, & Cunningham, 1998), the Nurturing Parenting Program
(Bavolek, 2002), and Project 12 Ways (Gershater-Molko & Lutzker,
1999; Gershater-Molko, Lutzker, & Wesch, 2002; Lutzker, Bigelow, Doctor, &
Kessler, 1998).
Multisystemic Therapy
Category: Indicated.
Program type: Parent training, parent education, and parent support.
Target population: Families with children 12 to 17 years with serious antisocial
problems.
Cultural adaptation: Families in urban areas. Materials available in Norwegian.
Program summary: Multisystemic Therapy (MST) is a time-limited homeand
family-centered program created for youth in difficulty with the juvenile
justice system. Although this intervention addresses parenting, it essentially
intervenes in school, peer, and community systems to effect change. This intervention
is designed to impact all systems that influence a child?s externalizing
behaviors using methods that promote positive social behavior and
decrease antisocial behavior. MST targets parental skills to improve their effectiveness
by identifying strengths and developing support systems for parents.
Parents collaborate with the therapist to use strategies such as setting
rules and curfew and providing supervision to reduce child noncompliance
utilizing cognitive and behavioral strategies for changes and promoting prosocial
peer relationships for behavior maintenance (Brunk, Henggeler, & Whelan,
1987). Disengagement from harmful peers, stronger attachment to family
and school, increased social competence, and improved family monitoring are
encouraged simultaneously (Brunk, 2000). MST assumes that conduct problems
are complex and addresses the stressing systems by using techniques of
reframing, coaching, marital therapy, advocacy, and parent education (Brunk
et al., 1987; Henggeler, Melton, Brondino, Scherer, & Hanley, 1997).
Evidence for the ef fects of treatment: MST has been proven efficacious for:
?Reducing adolescent substance use.
?Decreasing adolescent psychiatric symptoms.
?Reducing long-term rearrest rates by 25% to 70%.
?Reducing long-term out-of-home placement by 47% to 64%.
?Improving family relations and functioning.
?Increasing mainstream school attendance.
?Increasing parental monitoring (Alexander, Robbins, & Sexton, 2000;
Brunk, 2000; Henggeler et al., 1997, 1998).
Eight randomized clinical trials have proven that MST enhances parenting
skills and improves the familial environment. In a study with random assignment
comparing MST group-based parent training with traditional parent
training, MST achieved better outcomes in parental ability to control children?s
problem behaviors, increased parental positive responses to children,
and improved child compliance (Brunk et al., 1987). However, parent training
surpassed MST in the improvement of social problems, likely due to the group
context of parent training. Both interventions show significant reductions in
child externalizing behaviors, parenting stress, and family functioning (Brunk
et al., 1987).
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 10:02:26 PM
Quote
What you just described is ST. Your analogy is not appropriate for Fornits. This is first-and-foremost a survivor site. Not a NPOV discussion on Taxation. But, then you know that. And you also know that when a real parent, not some troll, comes along there is dialogue. But, oh my god.... the occassional slur insults their sensibilities and because they can't control everyone on the forum with THEIR needs, they're out of here. Guess what, that's their choice. And I doubt Fornits will ever change so they feel comfortable. They'd have no one else to talk to, cause everyone else would leave.
So you describe this as a survivor site. I saw it more as a melting pot and also a place where parents could come get information on Wilderness and TBS programs and have discussions with people who have had experience with them and gain some insight and help on dealing with their child.
Deborah, you and and I both know that the parents are not the only ones who get offended. If a parent comes on here and says ?So whats the big deal, a few weeks in the woods, fresh air, followed up with a nice cushy TBS with gormet food, clean sheets and an education. The little snot better not complain at $6,000/ month, life doesn?t get much better than, why when I was a kid I would have gotten slapped in the head no free lunch?s???.? The offensiveness meter (if that?s even a word) would go off the charts???
Quote
Are you implying that survivors sh0uld accept and respect the opinions of program apoplogists? There are actually a few, Buzzkill comes to mind. But then, she's not here hawking programs and isn't a shrinking violet.
I think they should.
Lets turn it around, should program apologists accept and respect the opinions of all the survivors? I think they should also, it is their opinion, it is what they experienced. If a survivor says they had an abusive time, they had an abusive time, its how they feel, only the person being abused knows how it feelsl!! If a survivor says they were helped by the TBS and it turned their life around then yes we should except that and embrace their feelings and not try to diminish it in any way.
A debate or discussion sometimes consists of people with opposing views. I am not saying that kids that had a bad experience understand or initially embrace a new parent that comes here or even understand other kids who did well. But there shouldn?t be this good guy/ Bad Guy mentality.
Quote
Just as you sh0uld avoid Fornits if it's so objectionable to you.
I am not offended, just trying to make it a better place by adding value and balance.
Quote
And, what do you mean that wasn't your post? Has your name on it and no one else can post with it. So out with it, what the hell are you implying by denying it's your's?
The post you mentioned was made before I had a sign-in name, it could have been anyone. I posted at fornits as ?Anon? for over a year and at one point ( last year) some posters became insistent that I was someone who I wasn?t??.to make a long story short?. I was asked and I agreed to have all my posts strung together and initially I was given the name ?Little cats? I think and it turned out someone had that name because the posts were mixed. The query was redone and I was given the name Thewho (as I recall) and just decided to keep it because I like the group. Maybe I picked it myself but I am pretty sure it was assigned to me. This post was made before I had a ?sign in? name and was added in error; it is someone else?s post, I would never say anything like that, Deborah.
Post by: Deborah on January 17, 2007, 10:04:10 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Let's flip that coin over for a second. Have you ever been to the hla board? If you like I can provide the link. There you will not find a single negative statement against HLA. Why? Because it's not allowed, the same as it was not allowed when we were incarcerated.
Not only are they censored, they can't share contact information. An adult survivor said recently, I feel like I'm in 4th grade with all these rules.
Here's the link. Have fun. One of the most boring forums you'll ever read.
http://www.discusshla.com/ (http://www.discusshla.com/)
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 10:10:13 PM
Quote
Exactly!! So at least we agree the car needs work !! 6 months ago you wouldn?t agree the car needed fixing?Posted: 09 Jan 2007 01:52 ..
Lets change this to:
Exactly!! So at least we agree the car needs work !! 6 months ago I don?t think you would have agreed the car needed fixing.
Quote
Okay fine, and if you had said "a number of posters seem to feel the best way to handle these issues is to do nothing" then I probably never would have brought it up, but you said majority. I'm looking for a basis of this claim.
Okay lets change that to ?a number of posters seem to feel the best way to handle these issues is to do nothing", The use of the word majority implies a survey was done or something was measured, I?ll agree to that.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 10:15:46 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 10:17:23 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""Let's flip that coin over for a second. Have you ever been to the hla board? If you like I can provide the link. There you will not find a single negative statement against HLA. Why? Because it's not allowed, the same as it was not allowed when we were incarcerated.
Not only are they censored, they can't share contact information. An adult survivor said recently, I feel like I'm in 4th grade with all these rules.
Here's the link. Have fun. One of the most boring forums you'll ever read.
http://www.discusshla.com/ (http://www.discusshla.com/)
I like fornits because I dont like a lot of rules either....
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 10:19:37 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 10:22:34 PM
Quote
Hey, Whoster...this is something that doesn't come often on this forum, it's community based treatment (MST). I think most people could wrap their heads around this a lot easier than shipping their kids off to unknown goon squads to suffer all manner of nasty trauma because daddy was a lamer. Would have saved you two years of estrangement. My friend at A START is a big proponent of MST.
Thanks Zen
Post by: Anonymous on January 17, 2007, 10:22:53 PM
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 10:25:23 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteHey, Whoster...this is something that doesn't come often on this forum, it's community based treatment (MST). I think most people could wrap their heads around this a lot easier than shipping their kids off to unknown goon squads to suffer all manner of nasty trauma because daddy was a lamer. Would have saved you two years of estrangement. My friend at A START is a big proponent of MST.
Thanks Zen
No opinion? I'm surprised. Some people just want the kid out of the house.
Post by: Deborah on January 17, 2007, 10:27:23 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
The post you mentioned was made before I had a sign-in name, it could have been anyone. I posted at fornits as ?Anon? for over a year and at one point ( last year) some posters became insistent that I was someone who I wasn?t??.to make a long story short?. I was asked and I agreed to have all my posts strung together and initially I was given the name ?Little cats? I think and it turned out someone had that name because the posts were mixed. The query was redone and I was given the name Thewho (as I recall) and just decided to keep it because I like the group. Maybe I picked it myself but I am pretty sure it was assigned to me. This post was made before I had a ?sign in? name and was added in error; it is someone else?s post, I would never say anything like that, Deborah.
Not your's huh? You're correct, you posted it before you were assigned a user name, meaning it was anon and you thought no one would ever find out. So... if it wasn't your's why not ask Ginger to correct the error?
Instead you just "Edited" some poor anon poster's message??
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 456#160456 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=160456#160456)
Yeh, right!! You're such a scumbag.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2007, 10:35:47 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
(http://http://www.combatgold1.co.uk/images/funny/forum/thread_sucks.jpg)
Then go to another.
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 10:40:03 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""The post you mentioned was made before I had a sign-in name, it could have been anyone. I posted at fornits as ?Anon? for over a year and at one point ( last year) some posters became insistent that I was someone who I wasn?t??.to make a long story short?. I was asked and I agreed to have all my posts strung together and initially I was given the name ?Little cats? I think and it turned out someone had that name because the posts were mixed. The query was redone and I was given the name Thewho (as I recall) and just decided to keep it because I like the group. Maybe I picked it myself but I am pretty sure it was assigned to me. This post was made before I had a ?sign in? name and was added in error; it is someone else?s post, I would never say anything like that, Deborah.
Not your's huh? You're correct, you posted it before you were assigned a user name, meaning it was anon and you thought no one would ever find out. So... if it wasn't your's why not ask Ginger to correct the error?
Instead you just "Edited" some poor anon poster's message??
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 456#160456 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=160456#160456)
Yeh, right!! You're such a scumbag.
Because there is no going back, unless Ginger keeps old copies of the database from a year ago. If she did (it would be time consuming) I wouldnt expect her to take her precious time to look for one error for me and I wouldnt want to ask her to. I know she is busy and I dont think I am on her top 10 list of favorite persons here anyways.
When the query was made and updated I assume the old ID was erased.
Why so harsh? If I was living a double life and trolling and saying things that were not true, why would I have agreed to have my posts connected? I could have said no and just continued on. I have nothing to hide and I have been consist in my views
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 10:44:33 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""TheWho""No opinion? I'm surprised. Some people just want the kid out of the house.QuoteHey, Whoster...this is something that doesn't come often on this forum, it's community based treatment (MST). I think most people could wrap their heads around this a lot easier than shipping their kids off to unknown goon squads to suffer all manner of nasty trauma because daddy was a lamer. Would have saved you two years of estrangement. My friend at A START is a big proponent of MST.
Thanks Zen
Some of that we did. We had a counselor involved for over a year and worked with the school and then gained outside opinions (not Ed Cons). The last thing we wanted was for her to have to get treatment outside of the home. Some of it worked for awhile but it seemed to unravel faster than we could keep us working together. Anyway, would like to read more about MST...
Thanks
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 10:48:45 PM
ASR out of the kid bashing business. I'd like to hear more about your experience, it sounds unusual to lose even more control with even partial Wraparound...
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2007, 10:57:04 PM
Post by: Deborah on January 17, 2007, 11:00:46 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""TheWho""The post you mentioned was made before I had a sign-in name, it could have been anyone. I posted at fornits as ?Anon? for over a year and at one point ( last year) some posters became insistent that I was someone who I wasn?t??.to make a long story short?. I was asked and I agreed to have all my posts strung together and initially I was given the name ?Little cats? I think and it turned out someone had that name because the posts were mixed. The query was redone and I was given the name Thewho (as I recall) and just decided to keep it because I like the group. Maybe I picked it myself but I am pretty sure it was assigned to me. This post was made before I had a ?sign in? name and was added in error; it is someone else?s post, I would never say anything like that, Deborah.
Not your's huh? You're correct, you posted it before you were assigned a user name, meaning it was anon and you thought no one would ever find out. So... if it wasn't your's why not ask Ginger to correct the error?
Instead you just "Edited" some poor anon poster's message??
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 456#160456 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=160456#160456)
Yeh, right!! You're such a scumbag.
Because there is no going back, unless Ginger keeps old copies of the database from a year ago. If she did (it would be time consuming) I wouldnt expect her to take her precious time to look for one error for me and I wouldnt want to ask her to. I know she is busy and I dont think I am on her top 10 list of favorite persons here anyways.
When the query was made and updated I assume the old ID was erased.
Why so harsh? If I was living a double life and trolling and saying things that were not true, why would I have agreed to have my posts connected? I could have said no and just continued on. I have nothing to hide and I have been consist in my views
You're assumptions are wrong. Copies of database exist from day one. That was your post. You missed your calling Who, should've gone into politics.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 17, 2007, 11:02:08 PM
Guess The Whodoo went to read up on MST...Goodnight, mental midget.
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 11:09:21 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Poochie Stringfellow wrapped his hands around Ganja's junk... :o
Guess The Whodoo went to read up on MST...Goodnight, mental midget.
:o :rofl: :rofl: ::bwahaha:: ::bwahaha2:: ::bigsmilebounce::
Post by: Ganja on January 17, 2007, 11:14:39 PM
(I do refer to just about any dog as such, though.)
Post by: RobertBruce on January 17, 2007, 11:23:44 PM
As to your current discussion with Deborah regarding whether or not we as survivors should respect the opinion of program apologist consider this; If this were a website for Holocaust survivors to join together and make sure that the truth was told regarding their incarceration do you think they would be open to having someone who denied the holocaust ever occured come on there tell them they are lying about their experiences? No of course not, they wouldn't care about having a balanced perspective either. It's the same thing here, we post on here to ensure the truth is told about these places, not what the programs put forth in their advertisements but the truth. If you had come on here and stated something to the effect of "I cannot speak about your experiences but I believe my daughter benefited from her stay at ASR." Then I don't think you would have gotten alot of flack for it. As it was however you came on here and began spreading lies and misinformation claimed we were lying about the circumstances of these places and still refuse to accept respondsibility for your own comments.
Whatsmore you may want to realize that while we were in these places we were forbidden to ever speak out against the program or to try and tell our parents the truth about what was happening. You may also want to look at that link Deborah provided for the hlaboards. Neither anonimity nor opposing view points are allowed, here we have openly encouraged staff members to come on the site and discuss the issues raised.
I'm also curious as to how impressed parents might be with your differing view point if you consistently dodge questions?
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 10:00:41 AM
Quote
Who I again appreciate you at least making an effort. I will accept your revision concerning the majority of posters comment, however I would still ask what your basis is for stating that you think I would have said the car didn't need fixing. Where does that idea come from? Is it so hard to admit when one is wrong?
It was based on our last conversation before I left for Asia, you didn?t seem up for any open discussion.
Quote
As to your current discussion with Deborah regarding whether or not we as survivors should respect the opinion of program apologist consider this; If this were a website for Holocaust survivors to join together and make sure that the truth was told regarding their incarceration do you think they would be open to having someone who denied the holocaust ever occured come on there tell them they are lying about their experiences?
I have not said anyone was lying about their experience at a program.
Quote
No of course not, they wouldn't care about having a balanced perspective either.
I think they would accept a balanced argument, if for any other reason to try and educate that person.
Quote
It's the same thing here, we post on here to ensure the truth is told about these places, not what the programs put forth in their advertisements but the truth. If you had come on here and stated something to the effect of "I cannot speak about your experiences but I believe my daughter benefited from her stay at ASR." Then I don't think you would have gotten alot of flack for it. As it was however you came on here and began spreading lies and misinformation claimed we were lying about the circumstances of these places and still refuse to accept respondsibility for your own comments.
I have never refuted anyones? story of their time spent inside a program. I may not have believed some of the documentation that was presented, some lists that have been shown to me, or agreed that any of us know what the owners of these places are thinking or what motivates them. I just don?t believe that these people wake up in the morning and say lets build a school, load it with kids who have a problem and then abuse them. It sounds like fun. No I don?t agree with that mentality, I think most of these school are run with the best intentions in mind and are willing to change policies if they are found to be abusive.
Quote
Whatsmore you may want to realize that while we were in these places we were forbidden to ever speak out against the program or to try and tell our parents the truth about what was happening. You may also want to look at that link Deborah provided for the hlaboards. Neither anonimity nor opposing view points are allowed, here we have openly encouraged staff members to come on the site and discuss the issues raised.
That is why I like fornits. I feel I have the freedom to speak against places that I feel abuse kids (Straight) and speak for places that I feel do not (ASR).
Quote
I'm also curious as to how impressed parents might be with your differing view point if you consistently dodge questions?
I don?t feel I dodge any questions. If I say ?I feel the majority of fornits posters seem to be biased towards not liking programs.? Someone may call me on it and say ?Prove it?!! This is almost an impossible task to gather names and present a statistical model to cover those who have left or do not respond to my survey and then get buy-in from everyone to accept the model which in turn would affect the credibility of the results. I would just say ?No, this is my opinion?. If the person still asked for proof, this would not be dodging the question?. My answer was ?No?. If you hold one person to a standard then everyone needs to be.
If someone says ? theWho no one here wants to hear your views anymore? ?fornits posters don?t believe what you say? are you going to jump in and demand these people come up with a statistical study to prove the scales tip in their favor?
Post by: Troll Control on January 18, 2007, 10:23:15 AM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Sorry guest, this is what you get here if you don?t embrace the group position or take a viewpoint outside of theirs. Parents move on before anyone can get a message to them. Its more about dumping their anger in a post as apposed to helping any kids, its too bad. I think there is a lot of value that Fornits can add to a parents decision instead of just trashing their point of view and chasing them off.
The "guest" is well aware of what happens on Fornits. She is no stranger. There will always be parents such as yourself who condone the abuse and consider it 'therapy'.
let me guess... amoral annie from minnesota, the program pimp?
confirm please, as my bs detector is set to 'ottawa5' right now.
Post by: Anonymous on January 18, 2007, 10:28:13 AM
Let's keep calling these scumbags out!! :tup:
Post by: ZenAgent on January 18, 2007, 10:36:37 AM
Everyone I talk to here is against programs for damn good reasons, that's why this forum is here. You're not going to change any minds. I don't give a fuck if you've lied...it's the fact you're blowing smoke up your own ass. What if somebody sent a kid to ASR because they bought your bullshit and something terrible happened? Are you that positive it's such a great place? I don't know much about you, but I can't see doing what you're doing without some financial motivation.
You returned from Asia? Who are you - Gary Glitter?
Post by: Troll Control on January 18, 2007, 10:52:46 AM
Quote
ZenAgent said:
Eight randomized clinical trials have proven that MST enhances parenting
skills and improves the familial environment. In a study with random assignment
comparing MST group-based parent training with traditional parent
training, MST achieved better outcomes in parental ability to control children?s
problem behaviors, increased parental positive responses to children,
and improved child compliance (Brunk et al., 1987). However, parent training
surpassed MST in the improvement of social problems, likely due to the group
context of parent training. Both interventions show significant reductions in
child externalizing behaviors, parenting stress, and family functioning (Brunk
et al., 1987).
Zen, this is where we run into problems with TheWho. He doesn't understand what a clinical trial is or how it is the benchmark of effectiveness.
He refuses to admit that clinical trials are necessary to evaluate the effectiveness of any approach.
One more time, Who. Why is it that not one single program in over thirty years has conducted or has allowed a researcher to conduct a single clinical trial of their methods?[/b]
This is a critical point, Who. Practitioners see new treatment modalities being created and employed all the time, with one major difference ffrom the programs you support: every single method developed is introduced only after a clinical trial has been completed that proves efficacy.
You see the MST research comes with a full report on efficacy and it has only been around for a few years. Same with FFT (Functional Family Therapy).
Since, for over thirty years, there has never been a clinical trial performed at any program, one must have to wonder what are these people trying to hide???[/b].
Anecdotally, I can tell you the answer. In my experience working in two programs, one the oldest and largest in the USA, and the other the model upon which all NATSAP facilities (including ASR, which was founded by the same person who started up the original) were created, treatment outcomes showed utter failure, and sometimes a clinical degradation of the patient's condition - THEY GOT WORSE![/b]
Discuss.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 18, 2007, 11:11:33 AM
Quote
It was based on our last conversation before I left for Asia, you didn?t seem up for any open discussion.
The last real conversation you and I had prior to you leaving for Asia centered on you claiming that HLA not having a nurse wasn't nessecarily a problem. I believe you are confusing me for someone else. If you can provide a link or a time frame for this conversation I will look into it and apologize if I'm mistaken, but I'm fairly positive that you are the one in the wrong here. Can you offer a link?
Quote
I have not said anyone was lying about their experience at a program.
Out and out lying? That I'm not sure of, you have however said it in a roundabout way, you've discounted peoples experiences.
Quote
But I have seen first hand as have many that these school are effective, very effective. There haven?t been any studies or evidence that support that any children have been hurt by ASR, in fact the evidence supports overwhelmingly the opposite.Posted: 26 Jun 2006 02:31
Here you claim to have seen first hand the effectiveness of not just ASR but many schools. Not to mention discounting any student who claims to have been hurt in ASR.
Quote
I think they would accept a balanced argument, if for any other reason to try and educate that person.
Do you believe most people in that situation are even interested in learning the truth? Even you refused to accept evidence when it was staring you in the face. Why?
Quote
I have never refuted anyones? story of their time spent inside a program. I may not have believed some of the documentation that was presented, some lists that have been shown to me, or agreed that any of us know what the owners of these places are thinking or what motivates them. I just don?t believe that these people wake up in the morning and say lets build a school, load it with kids who have a problem and then abuse them. It sounds like fun. No I don?t agree with that mentality, I think most of these school are run with the best intentions in mind and are willing to change policies if they are found to be abusive.
Okay I cannot speak to the owners initial mindsets. Maybe most of them do at the beginning want to help kids, but get lost along the way. Let's look at just HLA, if they truly have the best intentions in mind why would they avoid state regulation and oversight? Why would any of these places?
Quote
That is why I like fornits. I feel I have the freedom to speak against places that I feel abuse kids (Straight) and speak for places that I feel do not (ASR).
Okay understand that sites like the discuss hla board do not allow for dissenting opinions or for speaking out against the programs. Fornits is one of the few places we can do that, so for you to claim that fornits needs to be balanced isnt exactly the case (even though to some degree it is) because for every fornits there is a discusshla.
Quote
I don?t feel I dodge any questions. If I say ?I feel the majority of fornits posters seem to be biased towards not liking programs.? Someone may call me on it and say ?Prove it?!! This is almost an impossible task to gather names and present a statistical model to cover those who have left or do not respond to my survey and then get buy-in from everyone to accept the model which in turn would affect the credibility of the results. I would just say ?No, this is my opinion?. If the person still asked for proof, this would not be dodging the question?. My answer was ?No?. If you hold one person to a standard then everyone needs to be.
The standards are the same, when you make claims like "TBS's are safer than public schools" this warrants a source. Otherwise you are feeding parents bad information. So when someone asks you for a source and you refuse you are dodging the question.
Quote
If someone says ? theWho no one here wants to hear your views anymore? ?fornits posters don?t believe what you say? are you going to jump in and demand these people come up with a statistical study to prove the scales tip in their favor?
Probably not simply because I can see it with my own eyes, but if you demanded a survey to prove the claim I would take part and encourage others to do the same. But when you or someone else starts talking about things you cannot see or cannot know first hand then yes I would ask that proof be provided. The thing is though most of the people who are anti program (for lack of a better term) do provide proof of some sort. Its people on your side of the fence the pro program that ususally dont.
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 11:13:39 AM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Who.......
Everyone I talk to here is against programs for damn good reasons, that's why this forum is here....... What if somebody sent a kid to ASR because they bought your bullshit and something terrible happened? Are you that positive it's such a great place? I don't know much about you, but I can't see doing what you're doing without some financial motivation.
I would feel absolutely awful. Imagine a parent coming on here and having a daughter in crisis and considering ?Swift River? and hears the banter that ?All? schools are abusive and "every" child is subject to abuse and he blindly buys into it, lock stock and barrel. So he decides against sending her and she gets a hold of a lethal dose of Heroin and she dies a week later.
Quote
You returned from Asia? Who are you - Gary Glitter?
Not sure what you mean.
Post by: Troll Control on January 18, 2007, 11:13:45 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""TheWho""Sorry guest, this is what you get here if you don?t embrace the group position or take a viewpoint outside of theirs. Parents move on before anyone can get a message to them. Its more about dumping their anger in a post as apposed to helping any kids, its too bad. I think there is a lot of value that Fornits can add to a parents decision instead of just trashing their point of view and chasing them off.
The "guest" is well aware of what happens on Fornits. She is no stranger. There will always be parents such as yourself who condone the abuse and consider it 'therapy'.
let me guess... amoral annie from minnesota, the program pimp?
confirm please, as my bs detector is set to 'ottawa5' right now.
Nope, not O5. I'll give a hint. Fill in the blank: "Sorry, _______!"
Post by: Anonymous on January 18, 2007, 11:18:14 AM
Post by: ZenAgent on January 18, 2007, 11:34:57 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""Who.......
Everyone I talk to here is against programs for damn good reasons, that's why this forum is here....... What if somebody sent a kid to ASR because they bought your bullshit and something terrible happened? Are you that positive it's such a great place? I don't know much about you, but I can't see doing what you're doing without some financial motivation.
I would feel absolutely awful. Imagine a parent coming on here and having a daughter in crisis and considering ?Swift River? and hears the banter that ?All? schools are abusive and "every" child is subject to abuse and he blindly buys into it, lock stock and barrel. So he decides against sending her and she gets a hold of a lethal dose of Heroin and she dies a week later.QuoteYou returned from Asia? Who are you - Gary Glitter?
Not sure what you mean.
That's why I'm pushing for parents to ask questions - questions ASR won't answer. If they can't reassure you of their program's effectiveness and safety, don't send your kid.
Nevermind about Gary Glitter. Go to Bangkok much?
Post by: Troll Control on January 18, 2007, 11:49:05 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Very interesting! What does a clinical trial entail, exactly? (I know this may be kinduvva a dumb question, but hey, I'm a little dumb about this stuff...) Thanks in advance.
This describes the process for medical devices and drugs mostly, but it gives an idea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_trial (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_trial)
Basically speaking, a clinical trial is a tightly controlled study with a control group and an experimental group. The study is performed on both groups and the results are compared to find statistical relevence.
This has been done on every major approach to mental health treatment except "TBS," "EG" and "Wilderness Therapy." The facilities that employ these practices do so at the peril of their clients, as the methods they use have been clinically verified to be ineffective or harmful in various studies over many years.
That being said, no one has ever been permitted to directly study these programs, only their methods (e.g. LGAT, confrontation therapy, regression therapy, etc.), which, again, are proven to be ineffective or harmful.
One MAJOR, MAJOR selling point of any healthcare facility is research proven, effective methods. It brings in clients if it is proven to be effective. Why then, does the TeenHurt industry claim effectiveness but cannot provide data to prove it? Well, because the data suggest it is a failure.
If they actually had clinical evidence that their programs work, you can bet your ass that they would publish it. It would totally invalidate criticisms like those on this site.
Again, ask yourself why there is extensive clinical trial data on modalities that are nascient, but none for these haggard old programs???
The programs don't want to shit where they eat. It's that simple. They're not going to blow up their own spot and destroy their revenue stream!
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 11:51:13 AM
Quote
The last real conversation you and I had prior to you leaving for Asia centered on you claiming that HLA not having a nurse wasn't nessecarily a problem. I believe you are confusing me for someone else. If you can provide a link or a time frame for this conversation I will look into it and apologize if I'm mistaken, but I'm fairly positive that you are the one in the wrong here. Can you offer a link?
Thank you, no I cannot provide a link. I am not going back thru 6 months of posts and try to prove to you what I felt your frame of mind was at the time. There is no empirical data to mine. Sorry you are hurt by it but it was my opinion.
Quote
Out and out lying? That I'm not sure of, you have however said it in a roundabout way, you've discounted peoples experiences.
No I don?t believe I ever had.
Quote
QuoteBut I have seen first hand as have many that these school are effective, very effective. There haven?t been any studies or evidence that support that any children have been hurt by ASR, in fact the evidence supports overwhelmingly the opposite.Posted: 26 Jun 2006 02:31
Here you claim to have seen first hand the effectiveness of not just ASR but many schools. Not to mention discounting any student who claims to have been hurt in ASR.
No I didn?t, I said ?These schools are effective?. TBS?s ?are? effective. School teachers make good role models, Refrigerators keep items cold? etc. These statements are true although some teachers rape their students, some refrigerators don?t work properly, they are still accepted as true statements..
I think it has been said here many times that there lacks a good third party study of these programs. I have seen overwhelming evidence that kids come out safe from these places. For one example, the suicide rate, as we found, was lower in TBS?s than in the public sector.
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2004/crime03/1.asp (http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2004/crime03/1.asp)
Quote
Okay I cannot speak to the owners initial mindsets. Maybe most of them do at the beginning want to help kids, but get lost along the way. Let's look at just HLA, if they truly have the best intentions in mind why would they avoid state regulation and oversight? Why would any of these places?
Why should they embrace regulations and oversight? Why would anyone, it?s a ton of paperwork, costs money. Very few of us would have driver?s licenses unless we were forced to. We all see ourselves as good drivers I believe. The same with DSS, I don?t think every family would want DSS coming to visit once a month to check up on them. It?s a pain in the ass, y0u need to be home that day rearrange your schedule. Its not that they feel they are bad parents but if many had the choice they would say no thank you.
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 11:53:34 AM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""ZenAgent""Who.......
Everyone I talk to here is against programs for damn good reasons, that's why this forum is here....... What if somebody sent a kid to ASR because they bought your bullshit and something terrible happened? Are you that positive it's such a great place? I don't know much about you, but I can't see doing what you're doing without some financial motivation.
I would feel absolutely awful. Imagine a parent coming on here and having a daughter in crisis and considering ?Swift River? and hears the banter that ?All? schools are abusive and "every" child is subject to abuse and he blindly buys into it, lock stock and barrel. So he decides against sending her and she gets a hold of a lethal dose of Heroin and she dies a week later.QuoteYou returned from Asia? Who are you - Gary Glitter?
Not sure what you mean.
That's why I'm pushing for parents to ask questions - questions ASR won't answer. If they can't reassure you of their program's effectiveness and safety.
Nevermind about Gary Glitter. Go to Bangkok much?
No, Russia, Kazakhstan.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 18, 2007, 11:57:28 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
[
Why should they embrace regulations and oversight? Why would anyone, it?s a ton of paperwork, costs money. Very few of us would have driver?s licenses unless we were forced to. We all see ourselves as good drivers I believe. The same with DSS, I don?t think every family would want DSS coming to visit once a month to check up on them. It?s a pain in the ass, y0u need to be home that day rearrange your schedule. Its not that they feel they are bad parents but if many had the choice they would say no thank you.
Jesus, that's lame. These places are HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS. They're taking over parenting for you. We're not talking garages, we're talking about people working on your kid's head. If they embraced it, they wouldn't be mentioned on here. Hell yes, they should be absolutely required to adhere to strict regulations. Count the dead kids, who.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 18, 2007, 12:06:20 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
No, Russia, Kazakhstan.
Oh. Lot of fresh trade in fallen super powers, huh?
Post by: Ganja on January 18, 2007, 12:22:58 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""TheWho""[
Why should they embrace regulations and oversight? Why would anyone, it?s a ton of paperwork, costs money. Very few of us would have driver?s licenses unless we were forced to. We all see ourselves as good drivers I believe. The same with DSS, I don?t think every family would want DSS coming to visit once a month to check up on them. It?s a pain in the ass, y0u need to be home that day rearrange your schedule. Its not that they feel they are bad parents but if many had the choice they would say no thank you.
Jesus, that's lame. These places are HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS. They're taking over parenting for you. We're not talking garages, we're talking about people working on your kid's head. If they embraced it, they wouldn't be mentioned on here. Hell yes, they should be absolutely required to adhere to strict regulations. Count the dead kids, who.
Pretty flimsy, indeed!
Damn, Who.. for someone who has pretty good taste in music, you sure seem rather scandalous...
Sorry, but you do...
I'll see if I can come up with another musical prescription for you.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 18, 2007, 12:39:47 PM
Quote
Thank you, no I cannot provide a link. I am not going back thru 6 months of posts and try to prove to you what I felt your frame of mind was at the time. There is no empirical data to mine. Sorry you are hurt by it but it was my opinion
Oh it didn't hurt me, I simply brought it up to prove a point. You routinely make comments you cannot back up. This would seem to be a prime example of such. Your opinion may be that I feel the best way to handle teen issues is to ignore them but you have nothing to back up this claim and thus are incorrect. In laymans terms you've been proven to be wrong. I'm curious to see whether or not you will acknowledge this.
Quote
Quote:
Out and out lying? That I'm not sure of, you have however said it in a roundabout way, you've discounted peoples experiences.
No I don?t believe I ever had.
Sure you did, I even provided you an example.
Quote
But I have seen first hand as have many that these school are effective, very effective. There haven?t been any studies or evidence that support that any children have been hurt by ASR, in fact the evidence supports overwhelmingly the opposite.Posted: 26 Jun 2006 02:31
By claiming that there is no evidence that any children have ever been hurt by ASR you are effectivly discounting the experiences of any student who claims otherwise. Picture it this way, Anne has mentioned many times that she was once raped. If you were to state that her attacker was a humanitarian who had never harmed a soul you have effectively discounted the fact that he did hurt her, even without flat out calling her a liar.
Quote
No I didn?t, I said ?These schools are effective?. TBS?s ?are? effective. School teachers make good role models, Refrigerators keep items cold? etc. These statements are true although some teachers rape their students, some refrigerators don?t work properly, they are still accepted as true statements..
I think it has been said here many times that there lacks a good third party study of these programs. I have seen overwhelming evidence that kids come out safe from these places. For one example, the suicide rate, as we found, was lower in TBS?s than in the public sector.
The schools are effective based on what? Based on your experience? I'm sorry but that is not enough to claim that all TBS's are effective across the board. Not even close. This is where we run into the issue again of you believing that your opinion is sufficent. I can surmize that some refridgerators keep things cold because I know my own does and I know that I've been in other homes where I found the same to be true. I also know that some teachers are good roll models while others should have never been allowed in the class room, this based on my own experience. You do not know TBS's to be effective. For one there has never been any study done proving or even suggesting as much, two you only experienced one TBS. You could state that a single TBS proved effective for you, nothing else. You are not entitled to discuss anything else because you haven't experienced anything else.
Quote
For one example, the suicide rate, as we found, was lower in TBS?s than in the public sector.
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2004/crime03/1.asp (http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2004/crime03/1.asp)
While I'm impressed that you finally tried to back up your claim you apparently did so without actually looking at what this source had to say. This in no way discusses or compares suicide rates between public schools and TBS's. So in reality you havent backed up your claim at all simply because you still seem to believe there was only a single suicide in all TBS's within a 30 year period. As I proved to the other day this is not the case. The best way to prove your point would be for you to look at suicide rates across the board in TBS's compared to suicide rates across the board in public schools. Then look at the percentage with how many kids are in public schools (I believe a little over 50 million) versus how many kids are in TBS's (I think I've seen the number 30,000 tossed out there) then you can see what the percentage of kids is that committ suicide in TBS's versus the percentage of kids that committ suicide in public schools. I believe you'll find that percentage to be much higher in TBS's.
Quote
Why should they embrace regulations and oversight? Why would anyone, it?s a ton of paperwork, costs money. Very few of us would have driver?s licenses unless we were forced to. We all see ourselves as good drivers I believe. The same with DSS, I don?t think every family would want DSS coming to visit once a month to check up on them. It?s a pain in the ass, y0u need to be home that day rearrange your schedule. Its not that they feel they are bad parents but if many had the choice they would say no thank you.
You're more of a program devotee than I thought. I would agree with you that going to the DMV is a pain in the ass, however I recognize that forcing people to have drivers licenses makes the roads safer. All you've done here is contridict yourself see:
Quote
I think most of these school are run with the best intentions in mind and are willing to change policies if they are found to be abusive.
If these schools were really putting the best interest of the kids first and trying to create a safe enviroment than they would have no problem putting up with a little extra paper work. You've just proven that they are only interested in one thing: the bottom line and keeping kids quiet. Thank you Who.
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""Pretty flimsy, indeed!Quote from: ""TheWho""[
Why should they embrace regulations and oversight? Why would anyone, it?s a ton of paperwork, costs money. Very few of us would have driver?s licenses unless we were forced to. We all see ourselves as good drivers I believe. The same with DSS, I don?t think every family would want DSS coming to visit once a month to check up on them. It?s a pain in the ass, y0u need to be home that day rearrange your schedule. Its not that they feel they are bad parents but if many had the choice they would say no thank you.
Jesus, that's lame. These places are HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS. They're taking over parenting for you. We're not talking garages, we're talking about people working on your kid's head. If they embraced it, they wouldn't be mentioned on here. Hell yes, they should be absolutely required to adhere to strict regulations. Count the dead kids, who.
Damn, Who.. for someone who has pretty good taste in music, you sure seem rather scandalous...
Sorry, but you do...
I'll see if I can come up with another musical prescription for you.
I agree they should be required to have oversight and adhere to strict regulations. But I dont expect anyone to call them up and say hey come inspect me, make sure I do my job right. Most everyone feels they themselves are doing a good job and dont need oversight. It needs to be forced on them. If I wasnt required to get a drivers license or I wouldnt get in trouble for not having one I wouldnt have one. What good would it do me? I consider myself a good driver. If the fine for getting caught was $5.00 I probably still wouldnt get one.
Post by: ZenAgent on January 18, 2007, 01:22:24 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Ganja""Quote from: ""ZenAgent""Pretty flimsy, indeed!Quote from: ""TheWho""[
Why should they embrace regulations and oversight? Why would anyone, it?s a ton of paperwork, costs money. Very few of us would have driver?s licenses unless we were forced to. We all see ourselves as good drivers I believe. The same with DSS, I don?t think every family would want DSS coming to visit once a month to check up on them. It?s a pain in the ass, y0u need to be home that day rearrange your schedule. Its not that they feel they are bad parents but if many had the choice they would say no thank you.
Jesus, that's lame. These places are HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS. They're taking over parenting for you. We're not talking garages, we're talking about people working on your kid's head. If they embraced it, they wouldn't be mentioned on here. Hell yes, they should be absolutely required to adhere to strict regulations. Count the dead kids, who.
Damn, Who.. for someone who has pretty good taste in music, you sure seem rather scandalous...
Sorry, but you do...
I'll see if I can come up with another musical prescription for you.
I agree they should be required to have oversight and adhere to strict regulations. But I dont expect anyone to call them up and say hey come inspect me, make sure I do my job right. Most everyone feels they themselves are doing a good job and dont need oversight. It needs to be forced on them. If I wasnt required to get a drivers license or I wouldnt get in trouble for not having one I wouldnt have one. What good would it do me? I consider myself a good driver. If the fine for getting caught was $5.00 I probably still wouldnt get one.
I guess you don't know about Santa's NATSAP white paper...offering to let anyone walk in and inspect any NATSAP facility.
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 01:27:26 PM
Elementary and secondary schools
At School ---21 school associated Deaths (16 Homicides,6 suicides)
Away from school (2,124 Homicides, 1,922 Suicides)
Note: Data were drawn from a number of data sets to enable comparisons of homicides and suicides at school and away from school. Data for school-associated violent deaths during the 1999-2000.
National Center for Educational Statistics
Time frame: July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 (52,000,000 students)
At School --- 21 school associated Deaths (16 Homicides .00003%, 6 suicides .000012%)
Away from school --(2,124 Homicides 0.0041%, 1,922 Suicides 0.0037%)
And estimated, I think a population of 30,000 kids.
So At TBS?s the results would be:
At School --- 0 (0 Homicides, 0 suicide)
Away from School ? 1 (0 Homicides 0%, 1 Suicide 0.0033%)
So from a TBS vs National average the TBS?s had much lower rates of Suicides and Homicides for the same time period ?at school? and about the same ?away from school.?
Post by: ZenAgent on January 18, 2007, 01:32:27 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Elementary and secondary schools
At School ---21 school associated Deaths (16 Homicides,6 suicides)
Away from school (2,124 Homicides, 1,922 Suicides)
Note: Data were drawn from a number of data sets to enable comparisons of homicides and suicides at school and away from school. Data for school-associated violent deaths during the 1999-2000.
National Center for Educational Statistics
Time frame: July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 (52,000,000 students)
At School --- 21 school associated Deaths (16 Homicides .00003%, 6 suicides .000012%)
Away from school --(2,124 Homicides 0.0041%, 1,922 Suicides 0.0037%)
And estimated, I think a population of 30,000 kids.
So At TBS?s the results would be:
At School --- 0 (0 Homicides, 0 suicide)
Away from School ? 1 (0 Homicides 0%, 1 Suicide 0.0033%)
So from a TBS vs National average the TBS?s had much lower rates of Suicides and Homicides for the same time period ?at school? and about the same ?away from school.?
fuck, man...we've been through this, it's apples and oranges again. Some of these "TBS's" are lockdown facilities, and the kids are under supervision constantly. The kids got in trouble while going to regular school, a TBS is supposed to protect them from killing themselves or each other. You really spin in circles, dil-jam. What's the national average for elementary and secondary kids killed by improper restraints?
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 01:35:30 PM
Quote
By claiming that there is no evidence that any children have ever been hurt by ASR you are effectivly discounting the experiences of any student who claims otherwise. Picture it this way, Anne has mentioned many times that she was once raped. If you were to state that her attacker was a humanitarian who had never harmed a soul you have effectively discounted the fact that he did hurt her, even without flat out calling her a liar.
You read into it anyway you like, I see it differently, I am talking about the intent of the school. If a child was raped at a public school, could we conclude that public schools are designed or structured to allow this? Should all public schools be closed because of this event?
I have said this before that anywhere there are kids there are going to be people taking advantage of them whether that be a public school, a church or a TBS. Kids are going to get abused everywhere, I am not saying TBS are immune to this. I just believe they are safer
Post by: Anonymous on January 18, 2007, 01:37:04 PM
At School --- 17 school associated Deaths (17 Homicides .056%, 0 suicides = 0%)
Post by: ZenAgent on January 18, 2007, 01:37:44 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteBy claiming that there is no evidence that any children have ever been hurt by ASR you are effectivly discounting the experiences of any student who claims otherwise. Picture it this way, Anne has mentioned many times that she was once raped. If you were to state that her attacker was a humanitarian who had never harmed a soul you have effectively discounted the fact that he did hurt her, even without flat out calling her a liar.
You read into it anyway you like, I see it differently, I am talking about the intent of the school. If a child was raped at a public school, could we conclude that public schools are designed or structured to allow this? Should all public schools be closed because of this event?
I have said this before that anywhere there are kids there are going to be people taking advantage of them whether that be a public school, a church or a TBS. Kids are going to get abused everywhere, I am not saying TBS are immune to this. I just believe they are safer
No, it just means they're more likely to be killed by a staff goon than one of their peers.
Post by: Ganja on January 18, 2007, 01:39:22 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
You read into it anyway you like, I see it differently, I am talking about the intent of the school. If a child was raped at a public school, could we conclude that public schools are designed or structured to allow this? Should all public schools be closed because of this event?
I have said this before that anywhere there are kids there are going to be people taking advantage of them whether that be a public school, a church or a TBS. Kids are going to get abused everywhere, I am not saying TBS are immune to this. I just believe they are safer
But they need to be subject to regulation. :idea:
Case closed. :lol:
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 18, 2007, 01:41:25 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Kids are going to get abused everywhere, I am not saying TBS are immune to this. I just believe they are safer
The very nature and design of TBSs is abusive. LifeSteps/LGATs/raps/propheets.....they come from the same model, for the same reason. To change someone's behavior, alter their belief system......make them behave. It's abusive. It's emotional rape. You can't make it better or safer or kinder or gentler.
This stuff is abusive....
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&start=1860 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&start=1860)
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 01:41:29 PM
Quote
fuck, man...we've been through this, it's apples and oranges again. Some of these "TBS's" are lockdown facilities, and the kids are under supervision constantly. The kids got in trouble while going to regular school, a TBS is supposed to protect them from killing themselves or each other. You really spin in circles, dil-jam. What's the national average for elementary and secondary kids killed by improper restraints?
Exactly, So by protecting them they are safer!!! and in the meantime they are getting help so that it will hopefully reduce the chance of it happening after they leave.
Post by: Anonymous on January 18, 2007, 01:42:55 PM
Quote from: TheWho
[ So he decides against sending her and she gets a hold of a lethal dose of Heroin and she dies a week later.Quote
That is almost word-for-word the same line of bullshit that Straight, etc. spouted. It was a crock of shit then, and a crock of shit now.
Using your logic, suppose they send the kid to "treatment" and she hangs herself in a closet. Or worse, she survives the abuse only to be scarred for life by it. But there's hope--she may one day, in a vengeful rage, kill the asshole parent who sent her there and keep him from associating his fucked-up, obviously insane philosophy with the name of a fine rock group. We can all dare to dream, huh, The Who?
You are an asshole who should be nailed to the wall at one of these "treatment centers" that you are so enamored of, along with all the other abusive, neglectful, incompetent, and downright stupid parents like yourself.
You brag about abusing your daughter as if you did her some kind of favor. You abandoned her to strangers in a potentially dangerous situation where mindfucks and psychic rape are the desired results. Hopefully, she will one day repay your loving wisdom with a rusty razor blade and castrate you so that you will be incapable of producing more targets for your abusive, sick amusement. Sleep tight, Daddy-O, you're baby's been just fine since you had her head rearranged.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 18, 2007, 01:43:05 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Exactly, So by protecting them they are safer!!! and in the meantime they are getting help so that it will hopefully reduce the chance of it happening after they leave.
TBSs advertise that they're safe. The fundamentals on which they're based and which they continue to use are abusive.
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 01:43:30 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""TheWho""You read into it anyway you like, I see it differently, I am talking about the intent of the school. If a child was raped at a public school, could we conclude that public schools are designed or structured to allow this? Should all public schools be closed because of this event?But they need to be subject to regulation. :idea:
I have said this before that anywhere there are kids there are going to be people taking advantage of them whether that be a public school, a church or a TBS. Kids are going to get abused everywhere, I am not saying TBS are immune to this. I just believe they are safer
Case closed. :lol:
I agree 100% lets get those regulators after them ASAP, start fining them to motivate them, but dont blame the schools, they are not going to volunteer to oversight.
Post by: Ganja on January 18, 2007, 01:43:32 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quotefuck, man...we've been through this, it's apples and oranges again. Some of these "TBS's" are lockdown facilities, and the kids are under supervision constantly. The kids got in trouble while going to regular school, a TBS is supposed to protect them from killing themselves or each other. You really spin in circles, dil-jam. What's the national average for elementary and secondary kids killed by improper restraints?
Exactly, So by protecting them they are safer!!! and in the meantime they are getting help so that it will hopefully reduce the chance of it happening after they leave.
You ever listen to any Black Sabbath, Who?
(Bear with me here..)
Post by: ZenAgent on January 18, 2007, 01:48:20 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Ganja""Quote from: ""TheWho""You read into it anyway you like, I see it differently, I am talking about the intent of the school. If a child was raped at a public school, could we conclude that public schools are designed or structured to allow this? Should all public schools be closed because of this event?But they need to be subject to regulation. :idea:
I have said this before that anywhere there are kids there are going to be people taking advantage of them whether that be a public school, a church or a TBS. Kids are going to get abused everywhere, I am not saying TBS are immune to this. I just believe they are safer
Case closed. :lol:
I agree 100% lets get those regulators after them ASAP, start fining them to motivate them, but dont blame the schools, they are not going to volunteer to oversight.
What's NATSAP? It's the fox guarding the hen house. They've submitted to "self-regulation", why be so wary of Federal regulation? Most programs would have to make huge overhauls, which cut into the bottom line. You're right, they won't volunteer...
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 01:51:54 PM
Post by: ZenAgent on January 18, 2007, 02:36:10 PM
Post by: Ganja on January 18, 2007, 03:33:57 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Is he gone? Great, we can talk shit about him until he returns...
So Who, you ever been into the Sabbs at all?
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 03:58:33 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""Is he gone? Great, we can talk shit about him until he returns...So Who, you ever been into the Sabbs at all?
Not really
I spent a lot of time listening to Zeppelin, Tull, Moody Blues,The Who, Yes, Floyd, Emerson Lake and Palmer, foghat, Uriah Heep (Good years). I might have bought a Sabbath album but I don?t remember which one now. I really wasn?t a huge fan of Phil Ochs nor his singing voice either. I appreciated his writing more and especially when he highlighted and exposed the story of the girl who was murdered in New York with ?Outside of a small circle of friends? and no one helped her??anyway, but not much Sabbath
Post by: Ganja on January 18, 2007, 04:41:34 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I spent a lot of time listening to Zeppelin, Tull, Moody Blues,The Who, Yes, Floyd, Emerson Lake and Palmer, foghat, Uriah Heep (Good years). I might have bought a Sabbath album but I don?t remember which one now. I really wasn?t a huge fan of Phil Ochs nor his singing voice either. I appreciated his writing more and especially when he highlighted and exposed the story of the girl who was murdered in New York with ?Outside of a small circle of friends? and no one helped her??anyway, but not much Sabbath
Ok Who, there may be hope for you yet! :lol:
I'm glad to see you mentioned Pink Floyd, cos it gave me an even better idea for your musical prescription. Nevermind the Sabbath for now. Do you have a copy of Animals? If not, find yourself one somewhere. Give it a listen, paying close attention the lyrics' meaning (hopefully the CD will provide them; the LP does) and get back to me. Pay close attention to Roger Waters' incisive words, they may speak to you. There's no time to waste! :tup:
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 05:00:13 PM
How did it go??.
Hey you, Whitehouse,
Ha ha charade you are.
You are a proud town mouse,
Ha ha charade you are
you might try to keep our feelings off the street.
You're almost a real treat,
All tight lips and cold feet
And do you feel abused ?
Bus stop rat bag
you are nearly a laugh
but you cry.....
Cant remember any more.
Post by: Ganja on January 18, 2007, 05:04:06 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Hey you, Whitehouse,
Ha ha charade you are.
You are a proud town mouse,
Ha ha charade you are
you might try to keep our feelings off the street.
You're almost a real treat,
All tight lips and cold feet
And do you feel abused ?
Yeah, that's from "Pigs"!
"You house proud town mouse.." yeah, that's it! 8-)
http://www.allfloyd.com/lyrics/Animals.html (http://www.allfloyd.com/lyrics/Animals.html)
Post by: RobertBruce on January 18, 2007, 05:26:40 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Elementary and secondary schools
At School ---21 school associated Deaths (16 Homicides,6 suicides)
Away from school (2,124 Homicides, 1,922 Suicides)
Note: Data were drawn from a number of data sets to enable comparisons of homicides and suicides at school and away from school. Data for school-associated violent deaths during the 1999-2000.
National Center for Educational Statistics
Time frame: July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 (52,000,000 students)
At School --- 21 school associated Deaths (16 Homicides .00003%, 6 suicides .000012%)
Away from school --(2,124 Homicides 0.0041%, 1,922 Suicides 0.0037%)
And estimated, I think a population of 30,000 kids.
So At TBS?s the results would be:
At School --- 0 (0 Homicides, 0 suicide)
Away from School ? 1 (0 Homicides 0%, 1 Suicide 0.0033%)
So from a TBS vs National average the TBS?s had much lower rates of Suicides and Homicides for the same time period ?at school? and about the same ?away from school.?
Who again your sources for deaths in TBS are not correct. I already provided you with a link detailing some of the deaths that have occured in TBS over the years, including the year in question you are looking at. It's time you accepted that the percentage of deaths for kids is higher in TBS's than it is in public school. This is a fact Who.
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 05:30:47 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on January 18, 2007, 05:36:51 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 05:50:42 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Actually you claimed there had been one suicide in 30 years, after claiming there had been none. Hang on just a tick and let me see what I can find.
Yes, I was mistaken about the 30 years, the time period we have data on and can compare is July1, 1999 thru June 2000.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 18, 2007, 06:02:19 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on January 18, 2007, 06:10:23 PM
In Febuary of 2000 a 12 year old boy was killed when a 300 lbs counselor "restrained" him so well the kid died. This was at Eckerd.
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 06:12:56 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
So are you looking for strickly suicides or deaths over all. What about rapes?
homicides and suicides at school and away from school. Data for school-associated violent deaths during the 1999-2000.
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 06:17:07 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Here's one.
In Febuary of 2000 a 12 year old boy was killed when a 300 lbs counselor "restrained" him so well the kid died. This was at Eckerd.
If it was classified as a homicide then it can be compared. The data collected didn?t include rapes, accidental deaths, kids who died of exhaustion on track and field, kids who accidently overdosed only those classified as homicides and suicides at school (which includes on the way to school) and away from school.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 18, 2007, 06:31:50 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 18, 2007, 06:42:02 PM
The Who will go to any limits to win a senseless argument.
Since when is a public school responsible for what a studen does "away from school?"
Come on.....give it up.
Post by: Ganja on January 18, 2007, 06:48:35 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The Who will go to any limits to win a senseless argument.
But will he go to the limit of permitting "Poochie" Stringfellow to fondle his junk liberally? :rofl:
Who, go get yourself a copy of that album soon, please.
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 06:57:33 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
NOW we have The Who trying to say that homicides and suicides that happen "away from school" can be blamed on the public schools?
The Who will go to any limits to win a senseless argument.
Since when is a public school responsible for what a studen does "away from school?"
Come on.....give it up.
Where does it say that? These are national numbers, they are not mine, here check it out:
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2004/crime03/1.asp (http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2004/crime03/1.asp)
Post by: ZenAgent on January 18, 2007, 07:08:19 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""Guest""The Who will go to any limits to win a senseless argument.But will he go to the limit of permitting "Poochie" Stringfellow to fondle his junk liberally? :rofl:
Who, go get yourself a copy of that album soon, please.
Poochie gonna get a handful of Who's junk? Nasty.... :rofl:
Post by: RobertBruce on January 18, 2007, 07:12:34 PM
Quote
You read into it anyway you like, I see it differently, I am talking about the intent of the school. If a child was raped at a public school, could we conclude that public schools are designed or structured to allow this? Should all public schools be closed because of this event?
I have said this before that anywhere there are kids there are going to be people taking advantage of them whether that be a public school, a church or a TBS. Kids are going to get abused everywhere, I am not saying TBS are immune to this. I just believe they are safer
It's fine that you believe this Who, I have a four year old neice who believes in Santa Claus and I'm fine with that as well. It's basically the same thing. I'm looking for you to provide a basis for this claim not your own speculation and guess work but real numbers. The resources have already been made available to you, just connect the dots. You may also want to recognize that you're dodging the original issue. You claimed that you had never discounted another persons experience. Yet by your own admission a persons testimony should count as evidence. By you claiming that there was no evidence to support that any child had ever been abused or harmed at ASR you were effectively discounting their testimony and thus their experience. I'm also wondering what you believe kids at TBS's to be safer from? I can provide you with a number of examples of kids in TBS's being raped and or otherwise abused. Can you site the number of students raped in public schools? I'll bet it's less percentage wise than TBS's.
Quote
I agree 100% lets get those regulators after them ASAP, start fining them to motivate them, but dont blame the schools, they are not going to volunteer to oversight.
Why shouldn't they? You claimed these schools had the students best interest at heart. As was illustrated through your own analogy with the drivers license regulation leads to greater accountablity and safer conditions. If these schools really cared they would embrace it. Look at HLA, they have fought tooth and nail against our efforts to force them to become licensed as a theraptuic boarding school. Why? They certianlly haven't had any problems advertising as such. Is it really just because they hate the idea of more paperwork? No it's because all the regulations listed that they've been trying desperatly to ignore. Think about it in this regard, say you decide one day to grab some lunch at a local diner. You sit up at the counter and notice how clean the place is, after eating you head up to the cashier to pay for your lunch and there you notice prominently displayed a notice from the health department awarding the resturant a five star health rating, not only is it the highest score but you see that it was written less than six months ago. Now why would such a place let customers know they were being monitored or regulated as it were by the state?
You let me know what you think about that.
Post by: Ganja on January 18, 2007, 07:16:08 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
It's fine that you believe this Who, I have a four year old neice who believes in Santa Claus and I'm fine with that as well.
:rofl: ::bwahaha::
Post by: RobertBruce on January 18, 2007, 07:16:51 PM
Quote
Where does it say that? These are national numbers, they are not mine, here check it out:
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2004/crime03/1.asp (http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2004/crime03/1.asp)
True but why are those deaths important to this conversation. What point do they make?
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 07:33:44 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteWhere does it say that? These are national numbers, they are not mine, here check it out:
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2004/crime03/1.asp (http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2004/crime03/1.asp)
True but why are those deaths important to this conversation. What point do they make?
If you take a snapshot in time it gives an indication of how TBS?s compare with say the public sector (non TBS?s) in the area of Homicides and Suicides. This can give you a level of the water, so to speak, and enable one to create a bench mark for future data. I am not indicating that this one data set is an end all. It is one year, if we looked at another year the death rate at TBS?s may be 10 times higher. But all we have is this year to compare.
I actually would expect the TBS to have a higher incidence because the kids are at a little higher risk than a normal cross section in a public school system, in my opinion. I expect there will be years where the TBS exceeds the norm and should be followed.
Say 5 years from now we may be able to draw the conclusion that TBS?s are safer or less safe. Wilderness is safer or less safe etc., but this is a start anyway.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 18, 2007, 07:39:22 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on January 18, 2007, 07:41:50 PM
Quote
Say 5 years from now we may be able to draw the conclusion that TBS?s are safer or less safe. Wilderness is safer or less safe etc., but this is a start anyway.
Now this comment strikes me as odd Who. If it is as you claim and a conclusion has not been drawn due to a lack of data, why have you been so adament about TBS's being safer than public schools. If there isn't enough data how can you draw that conclusion?
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 07:46:55 PM
Quote
It's fine that you believe this Who, I have a four year old neice who believes in Santa Claus and I'm fine with that as well. It's basically the same thing. I'm looking for you to provide a basis for this claim not your own speculation and guess work but real numbers. The resources have already been made available to you, just connect the dots. You may also want to recognize that you're dodging the original issue. You claimed that you had never discounted another persons experience. Yet by your own admission a persons testimony should count as evidence. By you claiming that there was no evidence to support that any child had ever been abused or harmed at ASR you were effectively discounting their testimony and thus their experience. I'm also wondering what you believe kids at TBS's to be safer from?
Okay I will believe your evidence and testimony if you believe that some kids benefit and do well by attending a TBS or do you discount my testimony? It needs to go both ways.
Quote
I can provide you with a number of examples of kids in TBS's being raped and or otherwise abused. Can you site the number of students raped in public schools? I'll bet it's less percentage wise than TBS's.
I haven?t found a number for students who were raped in public schools, no.
Quote
Why shouldn't they? You claimed these schools had the students best interest at heart. As was illustrated through your own analogy with the drivers license regulation leads to greater accountablity and safer conditions. If these schools really cared they would embrace it. Look at HLA, they have fought tooth and nail against our efforts to force them to become licensed as a theraptuic boarding school. Why? They certianlly haven't had any problems advertising as such. Is it really just because they hate the idea of more paperwork? No it's because all the regulations listed that they've been trying desperatly to ignore. Think about it in this regard, say you decide one day to grab some lunch at a local diner. You sit up at the counter and notice how clean the place is, after eating you head up to the cashier to pay for your lunch and there you notice prominently displayed a notice from the health department awarding the resturant a five star health rating, not only is it the highest score but you see that it was written less than six months ago. Now why would such a place let customers know they were being monitored or regulated as it were by the state?[
That would be wrong in my opinion. If someone says they are being regulated and monitored and they are not then that is wrong and misleading and it should be addressed and changed, I agree.
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 07:51:17 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
You didn't answer the question. Why are deaths away from public schools important to this conversation. We are comparing safety in public school versus that of TBS's, Not when happens when the kid is at home, a kid could die at home whether he just got out of school or he is home for a visit, it makes no difference to what we are trying to determine.
We can throw that out if you like. There was a discussion once where people were talking about kids leaving a program and then committing suicide when they got home. I thought this data point might be valuable to track. If people feel it doesnt add value we can drop it.
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 07:58:35 PM
Quote
Now this comment strikes me as odd Who. If it is as you claim and a conclusion has not been drawn due to a lack of data, why have you been so adament about TBS's being safer than public schools. If there isn't enough data how can you draw that conclusion?
Well it is interesting you brought that up. (In short a statistician will tell you there is never enough data !!) But more realistically as one collects data year after year you can get a clearer picture of what is going on, where the trends are and the data becomes more powerful, more conclusions can be drawn and trends determined, better decisions can be made. A snap shot is a starting point but a string of many years makes for a stronger case.
But y0u need to go with the data you have at the moment to base your decisions on and then adjust with the trends as more information becomes available.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 18, 2007, 07:58:41 PM
Quote
Okay I will believe your evidence and testimony if you believe that some kids benefit and do well by attending a TBS or do you discount my testimony? It needs to go both ways.
Of course. I've never said otherwise, in fact as I pointed out to you I believe yesterday I've made statements in the past which state exactly what you're asking me for. I do believe that some kids benefit from time in TBS's. Not many, but a lucky few absolutly.
Quote
I haven?t found a number for students who were raped in public schools, no.
Allright then in continuing the conversation into discovering which is safer would you like to know just how many rapes and other abuses were reported to ISAC?
Quote
That would be wrong in my opinion. If someone says they are being regulated and monitored and they are not then that is wrong and misleading and it should be addressed and changed, I agree.
I think you missed the point here. The resturant is posting the health certificate given to them by the health department. It's not fake. I'm asking you why they would do that considering your apparent feelings on companies never volunteering for state oversight.
Quote
We can throw that out if you like. There was a discussion once where people were talking about kids leaving a program and then committing suicide when they got home. I thought this data point might be valuable to track. If people feel it doesnt add value we can drop it.
I just don't see how it bears on the conversation, if you're willing to offer an explination I'm willing to listen.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 18, 2007, 08:03:04 PM
Quote
Well it is interesting you brought that up. (In short a statistician will tell you there is never enough data !!) But more realistically as one collects data year after year you can get a clearer picture of what is going on, where the trends are and the data becomes more powerful, more conclusions can be drawn and trends determined, better decisions can be made. A snap shot is a starting point but a string of many years makes for a stronger case.
But y0u need to go with the data you have at the moment to base your decisions on and then adjust with the trends as more information becomes available.
Fair enough, I can tell you that the trend on the ISAC site would seem to suggest deaths, suicides, and rapes, are occuring more frequently in TBS's as time goes by. My guess however would be that it may not be the frequency is increasing but rather more and more these things are coming to light. There's almost no incidents listed as having occured prior to the early 90's yet I'm sure Anne or Ginger could tell us of more than a few deaths rapes or suicides occuring when they were in Straight in the 70's and 80's. You also have an abnormality in the data for public schools for that time span as it includes Columbine. Something of that mangnitude certianlly doesnt occur every year.
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 08:22:11 PM
Quote
Think about it in this regard, say you decide one day to grab some lunch at a local diner. You sit up at the counter and notice how clean the place is, after eating you head up to the cashier to pay for your lunch and there you notice prominently displayed a notice from the health department awarding the resturant a five star health rating, not only is it the highest score but you see that it was written less than six months ago. Now why would such a place let customers know they were being monitored or regulated as it were by the state?
It gives the people eating the warm and fuzzies that the place is clean and passed inspection. I also believe it is the law to post it in a conspicuous place at least in New Jersey it is, I believe. If it had a five star rating I would be very impressed and want to go back!!
I personally would like to see TBS?s have oversight and receive a rating and I would be the first in line to vote for this. But unless the parents ask for this and insist this be done then it has no value to the TBS?s it cant buy you anything. I remember back in the 70?s the big thing was the BBB ?The better business bureau? Everybody wanted to be rated and get on their list because customers would ask ?How are they rated? and it weighed heavily on the consumers decision whether to do business with you or not based on your rating. I believe this oversight, regulation stuff is consumer driven and if people don?t ask for it no one will do it.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 18, 2007, 08:34:04 PM
I'm looking for your explination other than excessive paper work (something we don't even know to be that big of a deal) as to why they wouldnt want state oversight.
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 08:36:04 PM
Quote
Fair enough, I can tell you that the trend on the ISAC site would seem to suggest deaths, suicides, and rapes, are occuring more frequently in TBS's as time goes by. My guess however would be that it may not be the frequency is increasing but rather more and more these things are coming to light. There's almost no incidents listed as having occured prior to the early 90's yet I'm sure Anne or Ginger could tell us of more than a few deaths rapes or suicides occuring when they were in Straight in the 70's and 80's. You also have an abnormality in the data for public schools for that time span as it includes Columbine. Something of that mangnitude certianlly doesnt occur every year.
I can agree with that. There could be under reporting. Kids at TBS?s have more one on one intimate contact with adults than do public school kids which raises the chances of them getting abused. If oversight and regulation is forced upon the industry there could well be a step function increase in reported occurrences of abuse. If this occurred and the TBS?s showed a substantially high rate of abuse, law suits, deaths, rapes etc. then the people in power would be holding the TBS?s feet to the fire (because the voters would want answers, not that they are interested) in a heart beat I believe and ?60 minutes? would be camping on their doorsteps.
I am happy to see that there is someone credible/ accountable (ISAC) collecting this information from the programs. I don?t mean to slight anyone here who is collecting data, but one questionable data point and the judge will throw the who list out the window.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 18, 2007, 08:39:48 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2007, 08:58:00 PM
Quote
I'm looking for your explination other than excessive paper work (something we don't even know to be that big of a deal) as to why they wouldnt want state oversight.
I have a company which requires 90 day inspections (inspections every 90 days) from OSHA because of an accident we had 2 years ago. I truly believe they add value and are a needed to our industry. We run a very safe facility and are proud of it, anyone can come in any time, the employees? safety always comes first and we have an open policy. But dam it when OSHA calls I have to take some people off their regular assignments to go down to the manufacturing floor to make sure everything is in place so I feel comfortable, run a report, take time for meetings, take them out to lunch.
If it came to a vote tomorrow whether to discontinue OSHA as a department I would vote them to stay in a minute. But if they missed or canceled an inspection I wouldn?t be on the horn to reschedule.
The same with ISO 9000 certification. These guys are all up inside your underwear day and night until they are happy. But we get a rating which allows us to ship directly to another companies warehouse without inspection and saves us money.
So is it all about the money? The ISO 9000 definitely yes. OSHA, no I wouldn?t bitch if they missed a day, but I like knowing my people are safe and have the latest equipment.
So I guess I just told myself that the TBS?s should pursue a course to insure the safety of their kids and employees. Why they don?t do this I really don?t know, I can only speculate:
1) The regulation is very costly
2) doesn?t add value to what they do
3) wouldn?t help the kids or employees
4) They are trying to hide something
Post by: Deborah on January 18, 2007, 09:23:52 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Of course when the TBS owners trying to avoid it like the plauge helps as well. I think Deborah mentioned a case out in Montana, the guy went so far as to write his own legislation that exempted all TBS's in the state from any sort of oversight or state regulation.
Not just any ol guy. Paul Clark is a State Rep. Involved (used to own) in two programs. Advertises that he provided therapy at both facilities, and has no license. And is advocating for self-regulation. Hope Schmidt nails his ass in the next legislative session.
Speaking of unethical practices.... gotta get over to the Aspen forum and read THIS....
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20389 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20389)
A teaser from the summary- you gotta read this document. Goes into great detail about the details of this program and how it fails in so many ways. Aspen Education Group :scared: :
Educational Benefit
Dr. Conway**, Ms. Bitz and J.J.?s parents expressed the belief that J.J. was not ready to leave the highly structured and supervised environment provided at MBA, and that he would regress during after-school hours and his behavior would deteriorate. Even if this is true, it does not prove that J. J. would not receive educational benefit from his IEP.
**Dr. Conway is/was MBAs consulting psych. Didn't bother to mention it before or during the IEP fiasco. Ms Bitz of course, is the Adm Dir for MBA.
Gets better. Explorations Wilderness, no prof staff, recommends MBA, who has no professional staff, yet they're 'assessing' this kid with major problems that need two years to 'fix'. Aspen will later acquire Explorations. Kid also ends up going to SUWS. Unbelievable nightmare story.
Ms. Pack-Patton, Ms. Harrell and Mr. Dunn all believed that J.J.?s IEP could be implemented at the BIS program even if J.J.?s parents were unable to provide adequate reinforcement at home. Mr. Miller believed J.J. could be successful in the BIS program even if his parents had difficulty
controlling his behavior at home, although J.J.?s likelihood of attaining his annual goals in the September IEP would be diminished if he did not behave well at home. Ms. Pack-Patton observed that students with the kinds of problems J.J. experienced often had trouble in the community with their peers and parents, and that it was usually more successful to maintain them in the community where they needed to develop new skills. As Ms. Pack-Patton and Ms. Harrell have the most personal experience with the BIS program, the students it serves and its effectiveness, I give their testimony the most weight in evaluating this issue.
MBA and Other Residential Placements
FINAL ORDER
J.J. & West Linn-Wilsonville S.D., Page 38
The parents, in their initial hearing request, claimed the District was denying J.J. a FAPE by refusing to continue his enrollment at MBA. Subsequently they broadened their claim by asserting that J.J. required placement at MBA or another residential facility in order to receive a FAPE.
Despite this change in the parents? assertion, all of their evidence is essentially related to J.J.?s education at MBA. For example, both Dr.Conway and Dr. Moran noted that if J.J. did not have the opportunity to finish his MBA program it would represent another (damaging) failure for him. This claim is irrelevant both to any educational need J.J. may have and to the parents? later position that J.J. could receive a FAPE at a residential facility other than MBA.
MBA cannot provide J. J. with a FAPE. It lacks the trained personnel necessary to implement the counseling provisions of J.J.?s September 1999 IEP, which (other than the placement recommendation) met with the approval of all participants. In fact, it lacks any mental health professionals or trained special education teachers who can address the ?psychiatric issues? which Dr. Conway identified as ?a formidable barrier to [J.J.?s] ability to benefit from regular educational opportunities.?
See excerpt from Dr. Conway?s April 1999 evaluation, quoted in Exhibit A57.
It does not offer daily communication with J.J.?s parents.** And, significantly, it provides few opportunities for students to interact with nondisabled peers. Another residential facility might be able to satisfy the requirements in the September 1999 IEP. Nevertheless, no residential facility would be the least restrictive environment in which J.J. can receive educational benefit.
**In fact, the document said they only had contact every two weeks.
Summary
The BIS program, with the additional supports and services described in the September 1999 IEP, offers J.J. a free, appropriate public education in the least restrictive environment where he can receive educational benefit. There is no convincing evidence that J.J. requires a residential
placement in order to receive educational benefit. Rather, the evidence indicates that the parents enrolled J.J. in MBA because, despite their strenuous and loving efforts, it had become impossible for them to control J.J. or feel comfortable and safe with him at home.
::mecry:: No free babysitting.
A residential placement in a remote location in central Oregon is a considerably more restrictive option for J.J. than education in the BIS program at a local high school, where he would interact with nondisabled as well as disabled students and would be able to live with his parents. It therefore does not meet the mandate of the IDEA. See 20 USC §1412(a)(5), 34 CFR§300.550.
FINAL ORDER
J.J. & West Linn-Wilsonville S.D., Page 39
Post by: RobertBruce on January 18, 2007, 10:11:17 PM
Quote
I have a company which requires 90 day inspections (inspections every 90 days) from OSHA because of an accident we had 2 years ago. I truly believe they add value and are a needed to our industry. We run a very safe facility and are proud of it, anyone can come in any time, the employees? safety always comes first and we have an open policy. But dam it when OSHA calls I have to take some people off their regular assignments to go down to the manufacturing floor to make sure everything is in place so I feel comfortable, run a report, take time for meetings, take them out to lunch.
If it came to a vote tomorrow whether to discontinue OSHA as a department I would vote them to stay in a minute. But if they missed or canceled an inspection I wouldn?t be on the horn to reschedule.
The same with ISO 9000 certification. These guys are all up inside your underwear day and night until they are happy. But we get a rating which allows us to ship directly to another companies warehouse without inspection and saves us money.
So is it all about the money? The ISO 9000 definitely yes. OSHA, no I wouldn?t bitch if they missed a day, but I like knowing my people are safe and have the latest equipment.
So I guess I just told myself that the TBS?s should pursue a course to insure the safety of their kids and employees. Why they don?t do this I really don?t know, I can only speculate:
1) The regulation is very costly
2) doesn?t add value to what they do
3) wouldn?t help the kids or employees
4) They are trying to hide something
The answer is number 4.
Post by: Ganja on January 18, 2007, 10:58:12 PM
Post by: AtomicAnt on January 18, 2007, 11:01:43 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteI have a company which requires 90 day inspections (inspections every 90 days) from OSHA because of an accident we had 2 years ago. I truly believe they add value and are a needed to our industry. We run a very safe facility and are proud of it, anyone can come in any time, the employees? safety always comes first and we have an open policy. But dam it when OSHA calls I have to take some people off their regular assignments to go down to the manufacturing floor to make sure everything is in place so I feel comfortable, run a report, take time for meetings, take them out to lunch.
If it came to a vote tomorrow whether to discontinue OSHA as a department I would vote them to stay in a minute. But if they missed or canceled an inspection I wouldn?t be on the horn to reschedule.
The same with ISO 9000 certification. These guys are all up inside your underwear day and night until they are happy. But we get a rating which allows us to ship directly to another companies warehouse without inspection and saves us money.
So is it all about the money? The ISO 9000 definitely yes. OSHA, no I wouldn?t bitch if they missed a day, but I like knowing my people are safe and have the latest equipment.
So I guess I just told myself that the TBS?s should pursue a course to insure the safety of their kids and employees. Why they don?t do this I really don?t know, I can only speculate:
1) The regulation is very costly
2) doesn?t add value to what they do
3) wouldn?t help the kids or employees
4) They are trying to hide something
The answer is number 4.
The answer is more complicated than number 4.
Those who run the program believe strongly in what they are doing. Still, they are aware of the 'fringe' status of their methods. They feel that the regulators (and probably the general public) would 'misunderstand' what they are doing and consider it to be too harsh (abusive). They fear that this would cause the regulators to impose rules on them that would gut the effectiveness of their programs by watering down the intensity. This thinking is consistent with coercive persuasion. There is an in-group vs everyone outside mentality. A sort of group paranoia. The group doesn't think they should have to hide anything. They think they must hide everything, to protect the in-group. To be effective, they must work in secret.
Post by: Ganja on January 18, 2007, 11:09:27 PM
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
Those who run the program believe strongly in what they are doing. Still, they are aware of the 'fringe' status of their methods. They feel that the regulators (and probably the general public) would 'misunderstand' what they are doing and consider it to be too harsh (abusive). They fear that this would cause the regulators to impose rules on them that would gut the effectiveness of their programs by watering down the intensity. This thinking is consistent with coercive persuasion. There is an in-group vs everyone outside mentality. A sort of group paranoia. The group doesn't think they should have to hide anything. They think they must hide everything, to protect the in-group. To be effective, they must work in secret.
Well said. This is exactly how it was at Straight. "Confidentiality" was strictly enforced.
"No talking behind backs" & "What you see here, do here, and say here remains here" or something like that...
Creepy!
Post by: AtomicAnt on January 18, 2007, 11:10:08 PM
This strategy is in keeping with everything I've read about people having and respecting healthy boundaries. It is also in keeping with what I know about modern psychotherapy.
Progams, on the other hand, hold the belief that their subjects must be impelled (forced) to confess and be confronted with their past abuses in a group setting. Programs state the teens cannot deal with their issues until they are brought into the open and confronted head on. This belief is the exact opposite of the the advise being given to these parents.
I think this illustrates how far away programs are from meanstream psychology which unlike programs, has advanced a great deal over the past 30 years.
Post by: AtomicAnt on January 18, 2007, 11:19:13 PM
Melieu control causing regression and identification with the captor, followed by situational adaptation.
What works for programs, works for pedophiles.
This is what makes programs unethical. Their techniques are identical to those used by abductors to control their captives. No real difference. It is what makes them damaging to the captive's psyche. This is true no matter how high functioning the former captive appears to be.
It is frustrating that The Who does not get this.
Post by: Ganja on January 18, 2007, 11:25:08 PM
Post by: psy on January 18, 2007, 11:25:39 PM
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
Oh, more importantly, I would bet dollars to donuts that the methods used to keep that boy for four years without him running away fit the description of coercisive persuasion.
Melieu control causing regression and identification with the captor, followed by situational adaptation.
What works for programs, works for pedophiles.
This is what makes programs unethical. Their techniques are identical to those used by abductors to control their captives. No real difference. It is what makes them damaging to the captive's psyche. This is true no matter how high functioning the former captive appears to be.
It is frustrating that The Who does not get this.
I saw that on the news tonight... And what oReilley said about it. Idiot that man is. My parents, as usual, were aggreeing with him, and I was trying to explain to them how similar the phenomenon is to programs... I got laughed at as usual.
Why was i watching Fox? Colbert was on.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 19, 2007, 12:31:49 AM
Quote
They fear that this would cause the regulators to impose rules on them that would gut the effectiveness of their programs by watering down the intensity
I have no doubt that your assessment as to how the programers feel about why they should be entitiled to self regulate, the problem however lies in the above statement. To date there is no effectiveness of their programs, thus they have nothing to lose.
Post by: Oz girl on January 19, 2007, 02:47:35 AM
i would like the who to answer the following questions:
What is the therapeudic benefit of strip searching ALL kids including those who have never taken drugs as ASR has a tradition of doing?
What is the therapeudic benefit of friendship bans?
What about workshops which have kids curled up in the foetal position crying? ASR again.
How does banning certain books help a kid to grow emotionally?
Why is emotional growth more important that intellectual growth anyway?
How can anything be therapeudic if the patient is not a willing participant?
How does physical restraint as shown to the world on Brat Camp (afterall Aspen are the industry leaders) fit in with medical principal "above all else do no harm"
Post by: Troll Control on January 19, 2007, 10:25:49 AM
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20401 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20401)
Your pipe dream of unregulated provision of mental health/behavioral health care has taken a severe blow to the head...
And you called us all crazy and "not credible." Just goes to show your poor judgement and perception of events.
Score one for the good guys.
Post by: TheWho on January 19, 2007, 10:29:50 AM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Hey, Who, did you catch this?
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20401 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20401)
Your pipe dream of unregulated provision of mental health/behavioral health care has taken a severe blow to the head...
And you called us all crazy and "not credible." Just goes to show your poor judgement and perception of events.
Score one for the good guys.
I think you should reread the posts, I am not for unregulated provision of mental health/behavioral health care , you have your threads crossed again.
Post by: Troll Control on January 19, 2007, 10:41:41 AM
You also have said on numerous occasions that the information I posted about HLA was untrue and that I was I liar ('to float my ego').
Now you stand corrected.
You also stand corrected that facilities using the moniker 'TBS' are, in fact, Residential Treatment Centers subject to the laws and regulations governing such facilities, as I have contended from the beginning.
Post by: Deborah on January 19, 2007, 10:45:04 AM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteThey fear that this would cause the regulators to impose rules on them that would gut the effectiveness of their programs by watering down the intensity
I have no doubt that your assessment as to how the programers feel about why they should be entitiled to self regulate, the problem however lies in the above statement. To date there is no effectiveness of their programs, thus they have nothing to lose.
Why would regulators disallow any humane method or technique? Any evidence-based philosophy? What do you mean by 'intensity'?
The industry needs a good 'gutting'. It's rotten at the core. If they can't provide humane 'treatment' and accomplish results in less than a month, without terrorizing kids, they should be shut down and exposed for the frauds they are.
Post by: TheWho on January 19, 2007, 10:47:30 AM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
No, you've said all along that the industry does not need, and should fight against, regulation.
.
No I havent. I asked the question: Why should they seek regulation? What motivates them? If they are not motivated by fines why should they seek regulation?
Would you go get a drivers license if you were not requuired to? I think I am a pretty good driver why do I need to go get one and pay them money?
The law needs teeth!! thats my point, DJ
Post by: Oz girl on January 19, 2007, 10:53:53 AM
What is the therapeudic benefit of friendship bans?
What about workshops which have kids curled up in the foetal position crying? ASR again.
How does banning certain books help a kid to grow emotionally?
Why is emotional growth more important that intellectual growth anyway?
How can anything be therapeudic if the patient is not a willing participant?
How does physical restraint as shown to the world on Brat Camp (afterall Aspen are the industry leaders) fit in with medical principal "above all else do no harm"
Cat got your tounge who?
Post by: Dr Fucktard on January 19, 2007, 10:55:08 AM
Post by: Troll Control on January 19, 2007, 10:58:32 AM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""Those who run the program believe strongly in what they are doing. Still, they are aware of the 'fringe' status of their methods. They feel that the regulators (and probably the general public) would 'misunderstand' what they are doing and consider it to be too harsh (abusive). They fear that this would cause the regulators to impose rules on them that would gut the effectiveness of their programs by watering down the intensity. This thinking is consistent with coercive persuasion. There is an in-group vs everyone outside mentality. A sort of group paranoia. The group doesn't think they should have to hide anything. They think they must hide everything, to protect the in-group. To be effective, they must work in secret.Well said. This is exactly how it was at Straight. "Confidentiality" was strictly enforced.
"No talking behind backs" & "What you see here, do here, and say here remains here" or something like that...
Creepy!
I agree to this assessment in certain cases. However, I have first-hand experience that suggests more insidious motivation on the part of program owners.
I have been told, point blank, face to face, by the owner of a 'program' that he knows full well that the data do not support the assertion that TBS is effective. However, he told me it was not results that mattered, but rather perception of results and plausible deniability when things go wrong.
Some are misguided sycophants of dead programs of the past, and others are greedy hucksters out to make as much money as possible as quickly as possible, before regulations or lawsuits arise.
Post by: Troll Control on January 19, 2007, 11:01:39 AM
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
Not to get too far off topic, but I have been following the news stories about the two boys rescued from that man in Missouri. I couldn't help but notice that the counselors have advised both sets of parents not to ask the boys any direct questions about what happened them while they were held captive. These experts feel that the boys must decide for themselves when they feel safe enough to discuss it and deal with the issues. To force the boys to answer questions or confront would be traumatic and harmful to them.
This strategy is in keeping with everything I've read about people having and respecting healthy boundaries. It is also in keeping with what I know about modern psychotherapy.
Progams, on the other hand, hold the belief that their subjects must be impelled (forced) to confess and be confronted with their past abuses in a group setting. Programs state the teens cannot deal with their issues until they are brought into the open and confronted head on. This belief is the exact opposite of the the advise being given to these parents.
I think this illustrates how far away programs are from meanstream psychology which unlike programs, has advanced a great deal over the past 30 years.
AA, this is bang-on. Great example, too. Forced confession is extremely dangerous and outside the realm of therapy, period. It should never happen!
Post by: Deborah on January 19, 2007, 11:04:03 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""No, you've said all along that the industry does not need, and should fight against, regulation.
.
No I havent. I asked the question: Why should they seek regulation? What motivates them? If they are not motivated by fines why should they seek regulation?
Would you go get a drivers license if you were not requuired to? I think I am a pretty good driver why do I need to go get one and pay them money?
The law needs teeth!! thats my point, DJ
The law 'has teeth'. This is our third attempt. HLA has hookwinked the state on the previous two attempts by claiming that HLA provided no 'therapy'.
It can take a while for the truth to come to light.
Using your analogy... HLA told regulators they didn't need a 'DL', cause they didn't own a vehicle and therefore don't drive.
The standard MO in the industry.
They teach how to avoid regulation at their NATSAP club meetings.
Look at Woodside Trails Wilderness... shutdown by the state... reopens as Eagle Pines Academy.... a 'Private Boarding School' :roll:
Or how bout that Bobbi Trott Christensen... same deal... Camp O'Neil shutdown after multiple deaths... forbidden from operating in Ca... solution, move across state lines and open as Crater Lake School.
Two of NATSAPs finest.
Well... were. It's been reported that Christensen is closing.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/155 ... sed02.html (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/155033_schoolclosed02.html)
And Eagle Pines is no longer listed as a member of NATSAP, and still fighting the state re: their investigation. :cry2:
Post by: Troll Control on January 19, 2007, 11:14:21 AM
Hey... How about we start a program to 'fix' programs?
Oh, wait a sec. We already have. HLA was the first to be 'fixed.' Why haven't we gotten paid for our services?!
Post by: TheWho on January 19, 2007, 11:15:24 AM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""No, you've said all along that the industry does not need, and should fight against, regulation.
.
No I havent. I asked the question: Why should they seek regulation? What motivates them? If they are not motivated by fines why should they seek regulation?
Would you go get a drivers license if you were not requuired to? I think I am a pretty good driver why do I need to go get one and pay them money?
The law needs teeth!! thats my point, DJ
The law 'has teeth'. This is our third attempt. HLA has hookwinked the state on the previous two attempts by claiming that HLA provided no 'therapy'.
It can take a while for the truth to come to light.
Using your analogy... HLA told regulators they didn't need a 'DL', cause they didn't own a vehicle and therefore don't drive.
The standard MO in the industry.
They teach how to avoid regulation at their NATSAP club meetings.
Look at Woodside Trails Wilderness... shutdown by the state... reopens as Eagle Pines Academy.... a 'Private Boarding School' :roll:
Or how bout that Bobbi Trott Christensen... same deal... Camp O'Neil shutdown after multiple deaths... forbidden from operating in Ca... solution, move across state lines and open as Crater Lake School.
Two of NATSAPs finest.
Well... were. It's been reported that Christensen is closing.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/155 ... sed02.html (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/155033_schoolclosed02.html)
And Eagle Pines is no longer listed as a member of NATSAP, and still fighting the state re: their investigation. :cry2:
I agree that isnt right. I dont advocate teaching people to avoid the law, that would be criminal.
Post by: Dr Fucktard on January 19, 2007, 11:17:34 AM
Post by: ZenAgent on January 19, 2007, 04:01:00 PM
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
Those who run the program believe strongly in what they are doing. Still, they are aware of the 'fringe' status of their methods. They feel that the regulators (and probably the general public) would 'misunderstand' what they are doing and consider it to be too harsh (abusive). They fear that this would cause the regulators to impose rules on them that would gut the effectiveness of their programs by watering down the intensity. This thinking is consistent with coercive persuasion. There is an in-group vs everyone outside mentality. A sort of group paranoia. The group doesn't think they should have to hide anything. They think they must hide everything, to protect the in-group. To be effective, they must work in secret.
I have to keep coming back to this, because it fits Peninsula Village so well. The PV counselor who posted details of her job on MySpace told of a mother and father at odds over their daughter's placement. Dad "got it", mom didn't, she thought it too harsh. She then said "We know their kids better than they do,"
This from a person with no children. When she does have her child, she'll understand why parents took great offense to that remark.
Post by: AtomicAnt on January 20, 2007, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
Those who run the program believe strongly in what they are doing. Still, they are aware of the 'fringe' status of their methods. They feel that the regulators (and probably the general public) would 'misunderstand' what they are doing and consider it to be too harsh (abusive). They fear that this would cause the regulators to impose rules on them that would gut the effectiveness of their programs by watering down the intensity. This thinking is consistent with coercive persuasion. There is an in-group vs everyone outside mentality. A sort of group paranoia. The group doesn't think they should have to hide anything. They think they must hide everything, to protect the in-group. To be effective, they must work in secret.
I have to keep coming back to this, because it fits Peninsula Village so well. The PV counselor who posted details of her job on MySpace told of a mother and father at odds over their daughter's placement. Dad "got it", mom didn't, she thought it too harsh. She then said "We know their kids better than they do,"
This from a person with no children. When she does have her child, she'll understand why parents took great offense to that remark.
Now change 'parents' to 'regulators.' The point I was trying to make is that the programs fear the regulators would judge their methods to be too harsh and they would react like the counselor you wrote about. They believe they know better than the regulators. Wasn't there a post linking to an article that reinforced this? (The school was in trouble for breaking a girl's arm and the director basically took the above stand.) I don't have time to find it.
The programs believe in what they are doing. They believe it is necessary to be 'harsh' in order to be effective. Program operators, talk show hosts, lawmakers, parents and others who buy into this fallacious belief are what keeps these programs in business.
The most effective way to fight programs is to steer the culture away from this self-righteous, angry, tough-love is a must, mindset. Unfortunately, the media (talk shows, etc) are feeding this mindset.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 25, 2007, 08:10:10 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 25, 2007, 08:54:46 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Where is our little rascal Cindy. He doesnt seem so eager to defend the faith any longer.
Booo!
Post by: Ganja on January 25, 2007, 08:56:29 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 25, 2007, 09:07:04 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Who, have you listened to Animals yet?
yea, I did, was nice and it took me back. I like the lyrics better than the music. I would rather listen to the older music "UmmaGumma" up to "the Wall", although you dont get as much of Roger Waters guitar back then.... its a trade off....Thanks.
Actually the Wall was after the Animals wasnt it? So I dont know, I guess I just liked some of the other albums better........
Post by: Oz girl on January 25, 2007, 09:39:54 PM
What is the therapeudic benefit of strip searching ALL kids including those who have never taken drugs as ASR has a tradition of doing?
What is the therapeudic benefit of friendship bans?
What about workshops which have kids curled up in the foetal position crying? ASR again.
How does banning certain books like Apocalipse now help a kid to grow emotionally?
Why is emotional growth more important that intellectual growth anyway?
How can anything be therapeudic if the patient is not a willing participant?
How does physical restraint as shown to the world on Brat Camp (afterall Aspen are the industry leaders) fit in with medical principal "above all else do no harm"
_________________
Post by: Ganja on January 25, 2007, 10:00:44 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Ganja""Who, have you listened to Animals yet?
yea, I did, was nice and it took me back. I like the lyrics better than the music. I would rather listen to the older music "UmmaGumma" up to "the Wall", although you dont get as much of Roger Waters guitar back then.... its a trade off....Thanks.
Actually the Wall was after the Animals wasnt it? So I dont know, I guess I just liked some of the other albums better........
I like the music (and the words) on Animals. David Gilmour's playing is superb on it. Its songs are (at times) way more upbeat than Wish You Were Here. So I like that about it. Animals is a great rock album; The Wall is like more of a rock opera or something. Good in its own way, but Animals is a more interesting musically.
I'm a fan of the early stuff too, despite the fact that I first heard it in the mid-80's.
Up to The Wall the albums were released in this order:
The Piper at the Gates of Dawn
A Saucerful of Secrets
More
Ummagumma
Zabriskie Point
Atom Heart Mother
Meddle
Obscured By Clouds
The Darkside of the Moon
Wish You Were Here
Animals
The Wall
Post by: TheWho on January 25, 2007, 10:38:21 PM
Quote
Oz Girl wrote: What is the therapeudic benefit of strip searching ALL kids including those who have never taken drugs as ASR has a tradition of doing?
I am not sure they advertise it as a therapeutic benefit per se. I see it more as keeping everyone safe. For example when my daughter was at ASR wilderness for a few weeks, what benefit would it be for someone new to show up with some drugs, or some alcohol or cigarettes or anything that would set them back or put them off track.
Quote
What is the therapeudic benefit of friendship bans?
If two people are being counter productive to each others course, running away together, helping each other to avoid doing any work then I think they should be separated. Some kids make poor decisions when it comes to friendships, that?s why some of them are there. They do this in any high schools also.
Quote
What about workshops which have kids curled up in the foetal position crying? ASR again.
I cant speak to the therapeutic benefit of this, its not my area. I think many kids and adults take to the fetal position when they are feeling vulnerable or are achieving a breakthrough maybe in a therapeutic setting. I would redirect this to a professional.
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How does banning certain books like Apocalipse now help a kid to grow emotionally?
Many, many books were banned from reading not just that one. Its not that the school didn?t want you to ever read them, its just they didn?t want you to read them at that time.
Its like if a few of you were kicking the soccer ball around the field during football practice. The coach would get pissed and make you run laps or do push ups till you dropped. Its not that he necessarily dislikes soccer, but it is the wrong time and place for it. Its time to focus on football.
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Why is emotional growth more important that intellectual growth anyway?I don?t think it is
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How can anything be therapeudic if the patient is not a willing participant?I don?t believe it can
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How does physical restraint as shown to the world on Brat Camp (afterall Aspen are the industry leaders) fit in with medical principal "above all else do no harm"
I saw a small clip on utube and I just cant form a judgment based on that. I don?t know which holds are approved and which are not. Which are safe for the child and which are not and when they should be used. My daughter wasn?t slammed around nor did she witness anyone being slammed to the ground or physically hurt, I know there are other stories where it happened I just don?t know the boundary conditions or circumstances.
Post by: TheWho on January 25, 2007, 10:44:05 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on January 26, 2007, 11:10:46 AM
Post by: TheWho on January 26, 2007, 11:46:48 AM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Who did you know your daughter was going to be strip searched and were/are you okay with it?
What occurred was she was given a new set of clothes to go into the wilderness portion of the program, which were much warmer than what she had. There was a female counselor with her, so I guess this served 2 purposes:
1. To insure she wasn?t taking anything forbidden that could be hidden in her clothes up to the camp and
2. To insure she had well insulated clothing.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 26, 2007, 11:59:46 AM
Post by: TheWho on January 26, 2007, 12:10:17 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
You didnt answer the question. Did you know this was going to occur and do you know for a fact that there were no males present?
Yes I knew she had to change into other clothing with a female counselor present. Yes I know there were no males present, because I was there.
Post by: Anonymous on January 26, 2007, 12:16:57 PM
HE LIKES TO WATCH, FOLKS!
Post by: RobertBruce on January 26, 2007, 01:22:33 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 26, 2007, 01:53:08 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
wow. This explains alot.
Thanks, Bob, it really does. I have heard many insinuations that kids are stripped searched with members of the opposite sex present, although I am sure this has happened somewhere at some point in time, it is not acceptable practice in any school that I have heard of. ASR particularly has a zero tolerance for anything like this. As you pointed out, I think this should put to rest, to parents anyway, any beliefs that this occurs at any level in reputable schools, it just doesn?t occur.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 26, 2007, 02:00:39 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 26, 2007, 02:28:07 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
I guess by that line of thinking HLA is not reputable then? I'm curious though, how can you speak for other schools or even ASR? Afterall while I'm sure you watching your daughter be strip searched proved to be satisfactory how do you know about every other kid there?
Well it?s a good point, you really don?t, what I think one needs to really look at is the process that is in place, like any other situation. Is it sloppy? Scattered? Does there seem to be a protocol that is followed? What I experienced was a clear understanding of what was taking place and what was to follow. My daughter was accompanied by a female counselor into a changing room where she changed into her wilderness clothing and was then escorted to meet her new group. I was able to speak to her before she left.
Can I speak for every other child? Of course not, none of us can, in any situation public or private school unless we spoke to every child that ever attended. All any of us can do is look at what they say they do and then verify ( where we can) and measure this by speaking with others and observing the final outcome.
If an organization can stand up and ?Do what they say? and ?Say what they do? and you can be a witness or bystander to some of these procedures then one can start to become comfortable that this extends into the entire program.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 26, 2007, 02:36:11 PM
I'll ask the question again. Is HLA a disreputable school considering there are reports of opposite sex being present during strip searches? Assuming of course the reports were true.
Post by: TheWho on January 26, 2007, 03:02:56 PM
Quote
Or you could delude yourself into thinking what you experienced for yourself is standard for the industry
Right on the money !!! That is exactly what I have been talking about all along. There are kids posting here who come out of places and had a bad experience and wrongly think that the entire industry is the same and like you pointed out, its delusional, nothing is further from the truth. Each school is different some better than others it is inaccurate to base ones experience with one school and apply it to all others. If schools present themselves with policies that you are uncomfortable with i.e. strip search, fences, academics etc. then the parent needs to keep looking. The right solution is out there.
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I'll ask the question again. Is HLA a disreputable school considering there are reports of opposite sex being present during strip searches? Assuming of course the reports were true.
Based on that statement I would say ?No? it is not, not based on random reports. I would say if a situation like that occurred and the school took appropriate corrective action to assure it did not happen again then I would not say it was disreputable. If the school did nothing to respond to reports and correct the problem then I would view the school as disreputable, in my opinion.
Post by: Anonymous on January 26, 2007, 03:05:08 PM
Post by: Oz girl on January 26, 2007, 05:07:22 PM
Post by: Dr Fucktard on January 26, 2007, 05:17:54 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Who gave this retard a megaphone?
So THAT'S where my megaphone got off to! :roll:
Give it back, Who! :flame:
Post by: TheWho on January 26, 2007, 06:25:26 PM
Quote from: ""Dr Fucktard""
Quote from: ""Guest""Who gave this retard a megaphone?So THAT'S where my megaphone got off to! :roll:
Give it back, Who! :flame:
Okay ! Guess I had it long enough, Fucktard, here ya go..........
Post by: TheWho on January 26, 2007, 06:45:36 PM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
you also mentioned that you were not sure what the therapeudic benefits of workhops which left some kids in the foetal position crying were because you were not an expert. Given that you sent your daughter to this school did it not occur to you to ask? or did they not tell you that it does this to some kids. This is something i would imagine a parent would want to know.
I am not sure what you mean? It didnt occur to me to ask if she may go into the fetal position, I was speaking in hind sight. If you take your child to see a therapist, is it reasonable to go over every emotion that may emerge and how you ,as a parent, want the therapist to procede? For example:
If a child avoids a topic don?t push her,?? if she starts to cry call me at once, ?..if she goes into the fetal position I will sue you,?.. if she throws one of your lamps I will not pay for it??. If she uses any bad language I want to hear about it??. If she says anything negative about her mother I want it suppressed?? and here are a list of specific topics I don?t want her to discuss.
This just isnt how it works, Oz Girl. Therapy may take you down many different paths and it is impossible to foreshadow and predict how a parent may want it dealt with each path and get permission. I am not a professional in this area but I do know that you cant set these restrictions ahead of time.
Post by: Anonymous on January 26, 2007, 06:58:06 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 26, 2007, 07:04:01 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Coercion under force of physical punishment. Change of receive emotional of physical pain. It's realy simple, actually.
Sure and I guess if that doesnt work, they can shoot you and throw you in the river, where do people get this stuff?
Post by: Anonymous on January 26, 2007, 07:04:41 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 26, 2007, 07:05:52 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
where do people get this stuff?
Your daughter told me.
Post by: Oz girl on January 26, 2007, 07:13:16 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
:
This just isnt how it works, Oz Girl. Therapy may take you down many different paths and it is impossible to foreshadow and predict how a parent may want it dealt with each path and get permission. I am not a professional in this area but I do know that you cant set these restrictions ahead of time.
I dunno i could see a concerned and responsible parent looking at ASR as an option asking questions like
What specifically does the therapy consist of?
What are the benefits and risks of doing things in this fashion?
What is the view of the medical establishment of this?
Is there any literature you can give me on such therapy?
So many books are banned. My daughter is a bright girl, what is the educational benefit of this?
Appointments every weeknight , What time is allocated to homework? What about leisure?
Work assignments which include janitorial duties you say? i guess this certainly teaches a work ethic? Will my child be paid for such jobs?
After all this is a desperate measures designed to save a wayward adolescents life
Post by: TheWho on January 26, 2007, 07:46:07 PM
Quote
dunno i could see a concerned and responsible parent looking at ASR as an option asking questions likeParents are given an overview but not specifics line by line. Ask any therapist if parents go over every detail?.they just don?t. They depend on the professionals to do their jobs
What specifically does the therapy consist of?
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What are the benefits and risks of doing things in this fashion?
Same as above
Quote
What is the view of the medical establishment of this?
If the child has a specific ailment, or on a specific medication I believe it is discussed in more detail.
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Is there any literature you can give me on such therapy?
I had specific questions regarding how often the therapy sessions were and met the people in charge. They were very responsive and answered all my questions
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So many books are banned. My daughter is a bright girl, what is the educational benefit of this?
They encourage reading at ASR. I sent my daughter several books from a series she was reading before she went in and it was allowed. I think they try to steer some kids away from books which may detract them from their work, maybe too violent, could be many reasons. But with the reduced access to television and video games their time spent reading really escalates so this isn?t a problem. There is plenty to read, if the book you want is banned read another and save that one for when you graduate, no biggie.
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Appointments every weeknight , What time is allocated to homework? What about leisure?
Yes, I did ask about this and the schedule is full. They have access to the gym and swimming pool, cross country skiing in the winter time, ping pong. They have date night, where you choose a boy/girl and go into town for pizza and a movie. Homework is done in the study area during the day. They have white water rafting and picnics etc. they keep you busy, many kids are not use to this.
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Work assignments which include janitorial duties you say? i guess this certainly teaches a work ethic? Will my child be paid for such jobs?
Ha,Ha, thats funny, this always comes up?.. I remember one girl that was really upset about having to vacuum the lobby, when I was visiting, she said it was maids work. She was obviously never given chores at home.
The way it works?? everyone is responsible for different areas (their own rooms of course) my daughter was in charge of the lobby and keeping it up. She had to work herself but she also had to direct others. This is great for self esteem, team building, work ethic, working with others etc. it is very beneficial
I really don?t expect kids to understand this, I didn?t when I was in high school so blast away, I don?t mind.
Post by: Anonymous on January 26, 2007, 07:55:13 PM
Post by: Oz girl on January 26, 2007, 10:35:53 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
The way it works?? everyone is responsible for different areas (their own rooms of course) my daughter was in charge of the lobby and keeping it up. She had to work herself but she also had to direct others. This is great for self esteem, team building, work ethic, working with others etc. it is very beneficial
I really don?t expect kids to understand this, I didn?t when I was in high school so blast away, I don?t mind.
You are aware that normal boarding school also has kids do basic chores like vacuming and keeping their rooms clean? What they dont have is kids performing maintenance work. The reasons are twofold
1. it is an occupational health and safety risk to have a kid with no professional expertise to such work because they are less likely to do an adequate job and thus things fall into disrepair.
2. The student is thetre for an education so needs enough time to actually study.
You also mentioned date night. My understanding was that a kid got to ask someone out for this 1950s ritual once right before graduation. It hardly represents a plethora of social opportunities
Tell me do ASR students play sports against other schools? Does anyone get to sign out on a saturday evening and go into the local town the way they do at a normal BS? Because most normal boarding schools allow this and have cerfews which are lame and early so there is very little trouble you can get into. (this is what exeat weekends are for and ASR does not have those) if ASR is not prison like then why would they fear such a tradition?
I wonder too how these kids adjust at college when everyone else in their dorm does not want to share their feelings every night at 8 pm. After all when something becomes a habit formed over 2 years it is hard to break this habit or even realize that this is not how people interact outside of "the bubble"
Post by: TheWho on January 26, 2007, 11:37:35 PM
Quote
You are aware that normal boarding school also has kids do basic chores like vacuming and keeping their rooms clean? What they dont have is kids performing maintenance work. The reasons are twofold
1. it is an occupational health and safety risk to have a kid with no professional expertise to such work because they are less likely to do an adequate job and thus things fall into disrepair.
2. The student is thetre for an education so needs enough time to actually study.
ASR is far from a normal boarding School. It is a Therapeutic Boarding School or TBS. ?At Risk? Kids attend for about a year and a half so some graduate others go home to complete their high school education. Education isn?t really an issue for some families because their child isn?t going to school anyway, for those that are, many of the kids that graduate from ASR go onto very good universities.
The kids are not doing professional work to my knowledge, mostly lower level jobs with the focus on self esteem. But if they were it isn?t a crime as long as they are getting the correct supervison. I had a place called ?College pro?s? do work around my place last summer. They were great, they were learning something new, working as a group. I don?t see any health or safety problems.
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You also mentioned date night. My understanding was that a kid got to ask someone out for this 1950s ritual once right before graduation. It hardly represents a plethora of social opportunities
Sure, the kids don?t go out every night. But it shows ASR is far from a lock down, fenced in facility. The kids get out and do stuff?.they don?t swim every day, or cross-country ski everyday , but kids at other schools don?t do that either. Many kids living at home cant even go out on a 1950?s type date (as you call it) if their grades are low or get grounded.
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Tell me do ASR students play sports against other schools?
No they don?t. I don?t anticipate this to ever be the case because of the time the kids spend there. They have a similar handicap as the Ivy League schools do. They just don?t have the time allotted to them. Ivy League schools do not practice all summer or 12 hours per day like non ivy league schools do. That is why you rarely see them beating any top 10 seeded teams, that why they created their own league. The players are required to focus on why they are there and sports come second. At TBS?s you add that to the fact that they are only there a short time and it just doesn?t work for the kids, just wouldn?t be fair. I guess it is possible at some point to create a TBS league where like schools could compete on a level field. It is a good point and would be benificial, but it seems like a long way off.
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Does anyone get to sign out on a saturday evening and go into the local town the way they do at a normal BS? Because most normal boarding schools allow this and have cerfews which are lame and early so there is very little trouble you can get into. (this is what exeat weekends are for and ASR does not have those) if ASR is not prison like then why would they fear such a tradition?
ASR isn?t a normal boarding school it is a TBS. There are no traditions of signing out on Saturday nights that I am aware of. Doesn?t make it a prison just non-traditional.
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I wonder too how these kids adjust at college when everyone else in their dorm does not want to share their feelings every night at 8 pm. After all when something becomes a habit formed over 2 years it is hard to break this habit or even realize that this is not how people interact outside of "the bubble"
That?s a good question. My daughter had trouble with this when she first got home. She went back to her old friends a short time after being home and then found (after about 3 weeks) she really couldn?t relate to them any more and had out grown them. One of the many things that ASR/TBS?s does is accelerate the maturity process which results in a development of a healthier choice of friends/relationships. Many kids mature several years in a very short time. So yes this is a problem at first and the kids typically find they relate better to a more mature group after they get home.
Post by: Anonymous on January 26, 2007, 11:43:04 PM
Quote
One of the many things that ASR/TBS?s does is accelerate the maturity process which results in a development of a healthier choice of friends/relationships. Many kids mature several years in a very short time.
:roll:
What planet are you on? Do you actually expect anyone who wasn't born yesterday to take that seriously, or are you just brain damaged? Didn't we just finish the fiction thing on this forum?
Post by: Oz girl on January 27, 2007, 02:47:36 AM
i would also suggest that being unable to relate to peers who have not been through such a process does not indicate maturity, it indicates that social and intellectual development have been stunted. The bubble as ASR kids have called it, promotes a cult like fear of a world that other yonug people are able to live in with confidence. No one struggles to relate to the big scary world after normal boarding school.
I realize this school is not regular but you still have not articulated what is therapeudic about any of the above restrictions.
you also compared ASR to an Ivy league college as a reason for banning sport(even tho kids have to rush through their homework for al the therapy sessions) :rofl:
but when i looked at the harvard website there were a wide variety of sporting options available for a young person who wanted a friendly and competetive way of getting exercise and socialising with their peers!!!
http://www.gocrimson.com/ (http://www.gocrimson.com/)
You also mentioned that normal boardings schools dont devote the majority of the time to fun. You are absolutely right. But then here is what i remeber of my time at an american boarding school with no therapeudic component.
-Leaving on a saturday night to got to the cinema with my peers or to just hang and get a coffee or a meal completely unsupervised by adults. Sure the sucky cerfew was a bit unreasonable but it kept kids out of trouble
-regular exeat weekends where people would visit the family home. Familes considered themselves compotent enough to set the rules. Sometimes this meant that kids cut loose and had sex or got sufficiently dunk or stoned to vomit on the family pet. No one went to jail. i believe most of these kids also got into college in spite of such indiscretions
-unrestricted access to all media. No book being banned. No form of music being banned. While kids did not watch a lot of TV this was because it was communal and they had to share it. imagine using real world negtotiation skills without once booking an appointment to share feelings with a random stranger!
-No friendship being banned. Not even if you were friends with the school bad boy.
I guess those benedictine monks were pretty crazy, let it all hang out kid of guys!!!
Post by: Anonymous on January 27, 2007, 08:39:01 AM
Post by: RobertBruce on January 27, 2007, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteOr you could delude yourself into thinking what you experienced for yourself is standard for the industry
Right on the money !!! That is exactly what I have been talking about all along. There are kids posting here who come out of places and had a bad experience and wrongly think that the entire industry is the same and like you pointed out, its delusional, nothing is further from the truth. Each school is different some better than others it is inaccurate to base ones experience with one school and apply it to all others. If schools present themselves with policies that you are uncomfortable with i.e. strip search, fences, academics etc. then the parent needs to keep looking. The right solution is out there.QuoteI'll ask the question again. Is HLA a disreputable school considering there are reports of opposite sex being present during strip searches? Assuming of course the reports were true.
Based on that statement I would say ?No? it is not, not based on random reports. I would say if a situation like that occurred and the school took appropriate corrective action to assure it did not happen again then I would not say it was disreputable. If the school did nothing to respond to reports and correct the problem then I would view the school as disreputable, in my opinion.
You seem to ignore the fact that there are more of us coming out saying "we had a bad experience, I saw others having a bad experience." versus people like you who claim " I had a great expereince, it must be the same across the board."
If it was the same across the board why are there so many kids from so many schools across the country all saying similar things?
Post by: Anonymous on January 27, 2007, 12:18:12 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 27, 2007, 12:23:49 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 27, 2007, 04:30:11 PM
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I would argue that not being able to leave the school at all (except for date night) without strict supervision, having limited homework time in the afternoon, having monitored and limited access to all media and censorship of reading material make it a prison without walls.
I respect your opinion. I just see it differently.
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You mentioned normal kids dont get to go out when they are grounded but nobody i know gets grounded for 18 months because this is not being grounded. It is home detention!
Nah, it?s a boarding school with lots of rules, you need to stay on campus most of the time
Quote
i would also suggest that being unable to relate to peers who have not been through such a process does not indicate maturity, it indicates that social and intellectual development have been stunted. The bubble as ASR kids have called it, promotes a cult like fear of a world that other yonug people are able to live in with confidence. No one struggles to relate to the big scary world after normal boarding school.
I realize this school is not regular but you still have not articulated what is therapeudic about any of the above restrictions.
I believe I suggested she moved beyond her peers in maturity. The restrictions may not be therapeutic at all, some may be in place to keep kids safe, others to allow the kids to focus on individual problems etc. Therapy is only one component.
Quote
you also compared ASR to an Ivy league college as a reason for banning sport(even tho kids have to rush through their homework for al the therapy sessions)
but when i looked at the harvard website there were a wide variety of sporting options available for a young person who wanted a friendly and competetive way of getting exercise and socialising with their peers!!!
http://www.gocrimson.com/ (http://www.gocrimson.com/)
I don?t think I said they banned sports. My comparison was to show that the ivy league schools provide sports but can not effectively compete (with some of the top 10 schools) because of restrictions they have on practice time. TBS?s have a further component (Therapy) which is thrown into the mix and also the kids are not there 4 years like other school, so forming a league would be difficult. The kids do play sports, compete and socialize, though.
Quote
You also mentioned that normal boardings schools dont devote the majority of the time to fun. You are absolutely right. But then here is what i remeber of my time at an american boarding school with no therapeudic component.
-Leaving on a saturday night to got to the cinema with my peers or to just hang and get a coffee or a meal completely unsupervised by adults. Sure the sucky cerfew was a bit unreasonable but it kept kids out of trouble
Exactly, you had a curfew, which is a restriction. TBS just have more of them.
Quote
-regular exeat weekends where people would visit the family home. Familes considered themselves compotent enough to set the rules. Sometimes this meant that kids cut loose and had sex or got sufficiently dunk or stoned to vomit on the family pet. No one went to jail. i believe most of these kids also got into college in spite of such indiscretions
The kids get to go home towards the end of the program for family visits and if they want to get sick on the family dog I don?t see why they cant.
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-unrestricted access to all media. No book being banned. No form of music being banned. While kids did not watch a lot of TV this was because it was communal and they had to share it. imagine using real world negtotiation skills without once booking an appointment to share feelings with a random stranger!
My daughter didn?t have to book an appointment with random strangers. I can see you have a uninformed view of TBS?s, this is typical so don?t feel I am attacking. The children see the same therapist throughout the stay.
Quote
-No friendship being banned. Not even if you were friends with the school bad boy.
This is not the case at ASR anyway. If you fall into an unhealthy relationship it is addressed.
Quote
I guess those benedictine monks were pretty crazy, let it all hang out kid of guys!!!
Yeah they sure were, I heard some of them even made their own wine !!!
Post by: TheWho on January 27, 2007, 04:36:34 PM
Quote
You seem to ignore the fact that there are more of us coming out saying "we had a bad experience, I saw others having a bad experience." versus people like you who claim " I had a great expereince, it must be the same across the board."
Is this your opinion or do you have numbers. I have met more people who have had a positive experience with TBS?s
Quote
If it was the same across the board why are there so many kids from so many schools across the country all saying similar things?
Simple, Because that is what you are hearing. I don?t believe it is the same across the board. I believe there are kids who have a good experience and some who have had a bad experience.
Post by: teachback on January 27, 2007, 04:38:21 PM
Post by: Oz girl on January 27, 2007, 04:51:34 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
This is not the case at ASR anyway. If you fall into an unhealthy relationship it is addressed.
But in What it takes to pull me through friendship bans ocurred for the most random and petty things. For talking about video games etc! Kids were not seen as doing the appropriate therapeudic work for not booking appointments with their peers where they were expected to talk about their issues. Nobody in the real world does this! This is why kids come out unable to relate to their old friends. They cant relate to anyone.
3 visits to the family with strict rules of conduct which are set by the school throughout the visit does not constitute regular exeat weekends. Moreover when the students invariably break the rules set down not by their legal guardians but by the school they are coerced into confessing and being punished.
ASR and schools of its ilk are not schools they are cults. Nobody goes to normal BS because the outside world needs to be feared. Nobody at normal BS feels so "safe" they refer to it as a bubble
Post by: TheWho on January 27, 2007, 05:17:47 PM
Quote
But in What it takes to pull me through friendship bans ocurred for the most random and petty things. For talking about video games etc! Kids were not seen as doing the appropriate therapeudic work for not booking appointments with their peers where they were expected to talk about their issues. Nobody in the real world does this!
I agree that some of the rules are silly, but far from abusive.
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This is why kids come out unable to relate to their old friends. They cant relate to anyone.
They relate very well to kids who are more mature than their old friends.
Quote
3 visits to the family with strict rules of conduct which are set by the school throughout the visit does not constitute regular exeat weekends. Moreover when the students invariably break the rules set down not by their legal guardians but by the school they are coerced into confessing and being punished.
Many kids in what you call ?Normal boarding schools? don?t go home more than a couple times per year. The schools have strict conduct, if you break the rules you get tossed out. If a kid wants to leave ASR he can, no coercion or physical punishment.
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ASR and schools of its ilk are not schools they are cults. Nobody goes to normal BS because the outside world needs to be feared. Nobody at normal BS feels so "safe" they refer to it as a bubble
Feeling safe isn?t a bad thing especially for many of the kids that are there. In a safe environment kids can blossom and grow. The trick is the transition from the bubble into their old environment with all its triggers and memories. It can be very scary, ASR has developed a very nice transition program I have heard.
Post by: Oz girl on January 27, 2007, 08:19:06 PM
* obtaining substantial control over an individual's time and thought content, typically by gaining control over major elements of the person's social and physical environment,
* systematically creating a sense of powerlessness in the person,
* manipulating a system of rewards, punishment. and experiences in such a way as to promote new learning of an ideology or belief system advocated by management,
* manipulating a system of rewards, punishments, and experiences in such a way as to inhibit observable behavior that reflects the values and routines of life organization the individual displayed prior to contact with the group,
* maintaining a closed system of logic and an authoritarian structure in the organization and
* maintaining a non-informed state existing in the subject.
ASR does all of these things!
Post by: RobertBruce on January 27, 2007, 09:31:23 PM
Quote
Is this your opinion or do you have numbers. I have met more people who have had a positive experience with TBS?s
I could emply the same tactic you do and tell you I see no reason to back up my claim and encourage you to do it, however proving you wrong is equally as fun.
The ratio of people that are pro program on fornits to people who are anti program should prove my point. Let me know if you need more.
Quote
Simple, Because that is what you are hearing. I don?t believe it is the same across the board. I believe there are kids who have a good experience and some who have had a bad experience.
You're confused. My statement was pointing out that because you had a good experience you feel it must be the same across the board. Obviously it isnt or we wouldnt be here.
Post by: Anonymous on January 27, 2007, 10:15:00 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 28, 2007, 11:06:09 AM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
Six conditions are simultaneously present in a thought reform program: (margaret singer)
* obtaining substantial control over an individual's time and thought content, typically by gaining control over major elements of the person's social and physical environment,
* systematically creating a sense of powerlessness in the person,
* manipulating a system of rewards, punishment. and experiences in such a way as to promote new learning of an ideology or belief system advocated by management,
* manipulating a system of rewards, punishments, and experiences in such a way as to inhibit observable behavior that reflects the values and routines of life organization the individual displayed prior to contact with the group,
* maintaining a closed system of logic and an authoritarian structure in the organization and
* maintaining a non-informed state existing in the subject.
ASR does all of these things!
A young boy who has been home schooled enters the local public school system. Around 10:00 he gets up to go to the boys room. On the way a hall monitor (this is a person who snitches on his peers and got the position because he has been brainwashed to believe all the rules are important) asks him for a hall pass and he doesn?t understand and is quickly escorted to the principal?s office where he is told he must ask permission to leave his class room and that he will have to report to detention (held against his will) after school, where he will be denied access to his family (isolation), miss his bus ride home and was told he cant bring any of his friends with him, nor can he listen to music. On the way back to class he stops at his locker and grabs his lunch which he starts to eat in class. The teacher promptly asks him what he is doing. He explains that in his family they eat at 11:00am and he asked to stand and the teachers asks the class to explain to him what time we eat here at ?Public High?. We eat as a group at 11:30 and everyone laughs (Public humiliation). He finds that he cant speak in class, cant talk to his friends, listen to music, cant get out of his desk or leave the building. The next day he is denied access to school (denied and education) because he is wearing a brown hooded sweat shirt that his grandmother gave him and is told to ask his parents to come in to meet with the principal before he may return.
The next day , in History class, the teacher calls his name and is asked what he is reading. The boy responds that he is reading a book on history and holds it up. The teacher laughs and says you cant get away with that crap here, the asks ?But why??, the teacher responds, ?That?s not the book that has been assigned for you to read?. I want you to go home and write a 1,000 word essay on why you shouldn?t choose your own books in class, which will cause him to loose more family time and incur further isolation?????
This was just his first 2 days?..who do you think will end up conforming to rules and regulations imposed on him against his will? His reward will be less public humiliation, working his way up to hall monitor, learning to not ask questions and just follow the rules as they are told to you, snitching on your friends will be rewarding in the teachers eyes????.this is a Public School!!!!
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 11:25:39 AM
Post by: TheWho on January 28, 2007, 11:28:57 AM
Quote
I could emply the same tactic you do and tell you I see no reason to back up my claim and encourage you to do it, however proving you wrong is equally as fun.
The ratio of people that are pro program on fornits to people who are anti program should prove my point. Let me know if you need more.
There is no tactic, relax no one is attacking, just asking. As a little advice?. it is always better to take the approach of proving something to be true than trying to prove someone wrong. The results take on a negative aspect which adds suspect (or spin)to the origin of the data.
I agree that if you were to poll all the people on Fornits you may prove a point, but remember you need to take into account the source of your data and whether or not the data represents a cross section of everyone?s view. For example if I were to poll a group of people with the question ?Do you think the teachings of Judaism has added more value to you life than Muslim teachings??. I would get a totally different response (data set) if I were to poll people in a Sunni neighborhood vs. downtown Jerusalem.
Would any one or both of these represent a true cross section of the rest of the world?
Quote
You're confused. My statement was pointing out that because you had a good experience you feel it must be the same across the board. Obviously it isnt or we wouldnt be here.
I guess you haven?t been paying attention. I believe that each school is different and should be measured on its own merits. I don?t take the position that all programs/TBS are the same.
Post by: Karass on January 28, 2007, 11:35:04 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
ASR has developed a very nice transition program I have heard.
You have heard what? Please describe this transition program. The norm in this for-profit industry is that when the payments stop, the so-called "treatment" stops. What does ASR do to help former students that are no longer paying customers make the transition back to the real world?
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 11:39:18 AM
Quote from: ""70sPunkRebel""
Quote from: ""TheWho""ASR has developed a very nice transition program I have heard.
You have heard what? Please describe this transition program. The norm in this for-profit industry is that when the payments stop, the so-called "treatment" stops. What does ASR do to help former students that are no longer paying customers make the transition back to the real world?
Who really gives a shit about these minor details? You fuckwads debate endlessly about shit like this and fail to see the MAIN POINT. No, idiots, if you have to ask then you will never know. I'd love to strangle 50% of the morons on this forum. It would do me some good.
Post by: TheWho on January 28, 2007, 11:40:28 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Nice try, but seriously and I am not exagerating or bullshitting you here Who. Those who have been in abusive programs, reading your analogy.. its laughable, utterly laughable and uncomparable in so many ways it's not even worth discussing with you... you are THAT far gone from the reality of this topic. Institutional humiliation is different than everyday life embarrassing moments.
I think you missed the point??.. I was posed with a list of conditions which I was told is present at a TBS and I agreed and stated they are also present in a public school. I didn?t make a direct relationship across the board, but the points I made do connect the two, That boy had to conform or feel the wrath of his parents. Sure some public schools are worse than others and this may not be the norm, but the same applies to TBS some can be pretty bad others may be great but to point out the worst experiences found at a TBS and try to peddle this as the norm is not accurate either.
I understand that kids who were in abusive programs may not understand because they were hurt by one of them. But lets not throw mud on all programs because of the few.
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 11:42:10 AM
Quote from: ""FUCK OFF!!!!!!!""
Who really gives a shit about these minor details? You fuckwads debate endlessly about shit like this and fail to see the MAIN POINT. No, idiots, if you have to ask then you will never know. I'd love to strangle 50% of the morons on this forum. It would do me some good.
::bangin:: ::bigmouth:: ::argue:: ::both:: :nworthy: :tup: :tup:
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 11:42:26 AM
They argued endlessly for weeks, months, eventually at the end of the semester they were never able to resolve their dispute. The religious person's argument basically came down to the fact you cannot prove a negative. If you can't prove there is no God, then it's possible he exists. That is why religion exists. Of course this argument is fallacious, but that doesn't matter to either of them. It's not about the answer or truth, it's about the argument, that's the ultimate point of engagement. Not the resolution.
What struck me though, was the fact the answer was staring them straight in the face the whole time. There is no god, and they are debating mythology. How do I know this? They were so engaged in conversation that final day of the semester, as they walked across the street they were struck by a car and both killed instantly. Where is your God now?
Could of told them that the first day we sat down. Oh well.
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 11:43:53 AM
Quote
But lets not throw mud on all programs because of the few.
Well that goes both ways there, buddy. You are posting on a forum discussing the industries most abusive programs. Every post you make is generic, alagoristic, and could easily apply to any program here. Pot, stop calling the kettle black.
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 11:45:23 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This thread reminds me of a serious of discussions I watched a friend of mine have, with a very religious colleague of his. They sat everyday over lunch, and discussed the philosophy of various religions, the teachings of Jesus, comparing them to Buddha, Mohammed, etc.
They argued endlessly for weeks, months, eventually at the end of the semester they were never able to resolve their dispute. The religious person's argument basically came down to the fact you cannot prove a negative. If you can't prove there is no God, then it's possible he exists. That is why religion exists. Of course this argument is fallacious, but that doesn't matter to either of them. It's not about the answer or truth, it's about the argument, that's the ultimate point of engagement. Not the resolution.
What struck me though, was the fact the answer was staring them straight in the face the whole time. There is no god, and they are debating mythology. How do I know this? They were so engaged in conversation that final day of the semester, as they walked across the street they were struck by a car and both killed instantly. Where is your God now?
Could of told them that the first day we sat down. Oh well.
:evil: :tup:
Post by: TheWho on January 28, 2007, 11:52:13 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This thread reminds me of a serious of discussions I watched a friend of mine have, with a very religious colleague of his. They sat everyday over lunch, and discussed the philosophy of various religions, the teachings of Jesus, comparing them to Buddha, Mohammed, etc.
They argued endlessly for weeks, months, eventually at the end of the semester they were never able to resolve their dispute. The religious person's argument basically came down to the fact you cannot prove a negative. If you can't prove there is no God, then it's possible he exists. That is why religion exists. Of course this argument is fallacious, but that doesn't matter to either of them. It's not about the answer or truth, it's about the argument, that's the ultimate point of engagement. Not the resolution.
What struck me though, was the fact the answer was staring them straight in the face the whole time. There is no god, and they are debating mythology. How do I know this? They were so engaged in conversation that final day of the semester, as they walked across the street they were struck by a car and both killed instantly. Where is your God now?
Could of told them that the first day we sat down. Oh well.
Hey I like that, Good point!!
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 12:09:19 PM
Quote
But lets not throw mud on all programs because of the few.
Have you ever given thought that your experience might be the minority, and the experiences of fornits in the majority. Notice, there is no forum out there discussing the positive effects of programs. So, I could say to you, lets not make light of all programs because of the few families who have successful experiences. My argument is just as legitimate as yours, and I believe it just as much as you believe yours.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 28, 2007, 12:17:15 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Oz girl""Six conditions are simultaneously present in a thought reform program: (margaret singer)
* obtaining substantial control over an individual's time and thought content, typically by gaining control over major elements of the person's social and physical environment,
* systematically creating a sense of powerlessness in the person,
* manipulating a system of rewards, punishment. and experiences in such a way as to promote new learning of an ideology or belief system advocated by management,
* manipulating a system of rewards, punishments, and experiences in such a way as to inhibit observable behavior that reflects the values and routines of life organization the individual displayed prior to contact with the group,
* maintaining a closed system of logic and an authoritarian structure in the organization and
* maintaining a non-informed state existing in the subject.
ASR does all of these things!
A young boy who has been home schooled enters the local public school system. Around 10:00 he gets up to go to the boys room. On the way a hall monitor (this is a person who snitches on his peers and got the position because he has been brainwashed to believe all the rules are important) asks him for a hall pass and he doesn?t understand and is quickly escorted to the principal?s office where he is told he must ask permission to leave his class room and that he will have to report to detention (held against his will) after school, where he will be denied access to his family (isolation), miss his bus ride home and was told he cant bring any of his friends with him, nor can he listen to music. On the way back to class he stops at his locker and grabs his lunch which he starts to eat in class. The teacher promptly asks him what he is doing. He explains that in his family they eat at 11:00am and he asked to stand and the teachers asks the class to explain to him what time we eat here at ?Public High?. We eat as a group at 11:30 and everyone laughs (Public humiliation). He finds that he cant speak in class, cant talk to his friends, listen to music, cant get out of his desk or leave the building. The next day he is denied access to school (denied and education) because he is wearing a brown hooded sweat shirt that his grandmother gave him and is told to ask his parents to come in to meet with the principal before he may return.
The next day , in History class, the teacher calls his name and is asked what he is reading. The boy responds that he is reading a book on history and holds it up. The teacher laughs and says you cant get away with that crap here, the asks ?But why??, the teacher responds, ?That?s not the book that has been assigned for you to read?. I want you to go home and write a 1,000 word essay on why you shouldn?t choose your own books in class, which will cause him to loose more family time and incur further isolation?????
This was just his first 2 days?..who do you think will end up conforming to rules and regulations imposed on him against his will? His reward will be less public humiliation, working his way up to hall monitor, learning to not ask questions and just follow the rules as they are told to you, snitching on your friends will be rewarding in the teachers eyes????.this is a Public School!!!!
Well, that's a pretty long winded answer designed, I suspect, to throw the attention off of the real questions that were put to you. The more you "extoll the virtues" of ASR, the more you put up red flags for us. The kinds of isolation, system of punishment/reward, the ostrization (sp?) of family members that don't meet up to ASR's standards and are then banned from all forms of communication with the student, the ostrization of other friends they may have made inside ASR.(bans)...............is ALL DANGEROUS.......to anyone, let alone kids who are in their most formative, developmental and susceptible years. It is crucial that they have not only family support, (I know you have been bushwhacked into believing that there is "family involvement", but you're wrong.) ASR and even most likely the grads are still afraid or aprehensive at the least to talk about it in its entirety. You also seem to justify what we, and other professionals say about this isolative, confrontative "therapy" as something that's needed. You're wrong again.
You seem to have somewhat of a grasp of what goes on there (granted, maybe not ALL of the abusive crap) and you seem to be completely fine with it. :o I hope someday when your daughter realizes what was done to her she'll have more forgiveness for you than you've had for her.
Remember the story I told you about my dad. For the first few years after I got out he was thrilled with me. I told him how much I hated being there, but knew it was the best decision for me. Once I woke up out of the fog I ended all communication with him. It's now taken me over 6 years to even try to build some kind of relationship with him....and so far it's superficial at best. He was fine with met telling thim that I didn't blame him, he was duped just like the rest, but once he had been indoctrinated, I was lost to him. After I began refecting the Straight teachings, he kicked me out of his home becaue I got pregnant (by another grad). So there I was, pregnant, dad pulling the "tough love' crap and saying that I couldn't live with him. He then immediately got on the phone with my mom and told her not to take me in. (Mom was/is so weak emotionally that she just did whatever he told her, truly believing she was doing the right thing.) I hold no animosity towards my mom. She tried to speak up but was confronted to the point of dissolving into tears in a parent rap. She doesn't come well with that sort of shit, so she just crumbled and gave in) I'm hoping for more with my dad, but don't expect it. As I said, he's a lot like you.
Post by: TheWho on January 28, 2007, 12:37:56 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
QuoteBut lets not throw mud on all programs because of the few.
Have you ever given thought that your experience might be the minority, and the experiences of fornits in the majority. Notice, there is no forum out there discussing the positive effects of programs. So, I could say to you, lets not make light of all programs because of the few families who have successful experiences. My argument is just as legitimate as yours, and I believe it just as much as you believe yours.
My experience could very well be in the minority and I agree everyone?s argument is a legitimate as mine and we each believe what we are saying. I also agree we shouldn?t make light of all programs the same as we shouldn?t assume they are all bad
Post by: TheWho on January 28, 2007, 12:52:23 PM
A previous post asked me why I can?t see that my argument is as valid as theirs. I responded that I do recognize other people?s experiences and believe what they went thru. But it doesn?t apply to everyone.
How can you assume my daughter will come to realize what has been done to her and have more forgiveness for me?
That is like me saying to a kid who had a bad experience, that their feelings are wrong, to not hate your parents or the school, give it five years and you will see how it has benefited you and you will thank everyone eventually.
My daughter and I have a great relationship, now, I don?t need to forgive her or her me.
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 12:59:15 PM
Post by: Karass on January 28, 2007, 01:19:59 PM
Quote from: ""FUCK OFF!!!!!!!""
Quote from: ""70sPunkRebel""Who really gives a shit about these minor details? You fuckwads debate endlessly about shit like this and fail to see the MAIN POINT. No, idiots, if you have to ask then you will never know. I'd love to strangle 50% of the morons on this forum. It would do me some good.Quote from: ""TheWho""ASR has developed a very nice transition program I have heard.
You have heard what? Please describe this transition program. The norm in this for-profit industry is that when the payments stop, the so-called "treatment" stops. What does ASR do to help former students that are no longer paying customers make the transition back to the real world?
No I don't fail to see the MAIN POINT. But all this b.s. about "transition" is one of the latest Marketing angles used by programs to make themselves look more "therapeutic." And AFAIK it's total bullshit. The "transition" is simply to release a kid back to his parents, or to the open road if he turns 18 while in-program, and say "good luck to you." It's a helluva thing to do to someone who is shell-shocked by a long period of BM brainwashing, whose skills at coping with the real world are most likely much worse, not better than before the program. It's not a minor detail.
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 01:22:23 PM
Quote from: ""70sPunkRebel""
No I don't fail to see the MAIN POINT. But all this b.s. about "transition" is one of the latest Marketing angles used by programs to make themselves look more "therapeutic."
Sorry; then I suppose you are an exception.
The rest of you buttheads can still fuck off, though.
Post by: TheWho on January 28, 2007, 01:28:15 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""70sPunkRebel""No I don't fail to see the MAIN POINT. But all this b.s. about "transition" is one of the latest Marketing angles used by programs to make themselves look more "therapeutic."Sorry; then I suppose you are an exception.
The rest of you buttheads can still fuck off, though.
Ha!! Ha!! Thats a great response!!
Post by: Ganja on January 28, 2007, 01:35:24 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on January 28, 2007, 03:33:56 PM
Quote
A young boy who has been home schooled enters the local public school system. Around 10:00 he gets up to go to the boys room.
In your example the boy was punished with a detention after school, in a TBS he would have been immediatly restrained and slammed to the ground. His parents would have been called and told their son had attempted to run away, followed up by the boy being sent out into the woods for several weeks. Similar to a public school? Not in the slightest.
Quote
On the way a hall monitor (this is a person who snitches on his peers and got the position because he has been brainwashed to believe all the rules are important)
This is probably a better situation than in the TBS where the hall monitor tells on the boy because if he doesn't he will be punished indefinitly along with the boy. He will also be forced to tell on numerous others for crimes real and imagined and will not be free to go until he has successfully burned a large number of other students. He will of course likely be beaten for this later that same night. His parents will not be told.
Quote
and is quickly escorted to the principal?s office where he is told he must ask permission to leave his class room and that he will have to report to detention (held against his will) after school, where he will be denied access to his family (isolation),
In the TBS he would be sent to restriction, where he would be forced to preform hours upon hours of meaningless back breaking labor, or perform general maintaince around the school. Of course there's always the possibility that he could just be made to do calstenics for hours on end, or until he vomits. Of course while on restriction (which can last indefinity) he is unable to communicate with his family at any time. I'm sure you can see the theraputic value in this. It's a wonder public schools don't do the same thing?
Quote
On the way back to class he stops at his locker and grabs his lunch which he starts to eat in class. The teacher promptly asks him what he is doing. He explains that in his family they eat at 11:00am
In the TBS he can be denied food for several hours for any infraction deemed worth of withholding food. When he is fed it is naturally a restricted diet.
Quote
the teachers asks the class to explain to him what time we eat here at ?Public High?. We eat as a group at 11:30 and everyone laughs (Public humiliation).
At the TBS he would be asked to describe in detail to the entire group the account of a rape or any other assorted traumatic event. Anyone will do.
Quote
He finds that he cant speak in class, cant talk to his friends, listen to music, cant get out of his desk or leave the building.
At the TBS speaking is not only forbidden, steps are taken to ensure he doesn't break that rule. By simply putting a ball gag in his mouth you can make sure the kid never talks out of turn. Of course speaking to friends is also limited, he is placed on 'bans' with everyone. Anyone speaking to him or acknowledging his existence will be punished. He also can't leave the building as there is a barbed wire fence and sentry posts, should he somehow escape he would of course be arrested.
Quote
The next day he is denied access to school (denied and education) because he is wearing a brown hooded sweat shirt that his grandmother gave him and is told to ask his parents to come in to meet with the principal before he may return
At the TBS brown sweat shirts aren't a problem, every kid wears the same thing. Any variation is punished. However when the kid was found singing a Nirvana song in the shower he was put on the afore mentioned restriction for "glorifying drugs and violence".
Quote
The next day , in History class, the teacher calls his name and is asked what he is reading. The boy responds that he is reading a book on history and holds it up. The teacher laughs and says you cant get away with that crap here, the asks ?But why??, the teacher responds, ?That?s not the book that has been assigned for you to read?. I want you to go home and write a 1,000 word essay on why you shouldn?t choose your own books in class, which will cause him to loose more family time and incur further isolation?????
At the TBS the boy was caught reading Jack Kerouack and was sent out into the woods for a month. No contact with family allowed.
See the difference now Cindy?
Post by: TheWho on January 28, 2007, 03:46:16 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 03:52:36 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 03:55:40 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Ha,Ha,Ha, Sorry Bob -- The truth hurts doesnt it?
Knowing there are parents like you out there, that is what really hurts.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 28, 2007, 03:56:41 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Ha,Ha,Ha, Sorry Bob -- The truth hurts doesnt it?
Ummmmmm...you're confused again Cindy, you were the one being confronted with the truth and having your delusions destroyed. I was the one swinging the hammer. Not the other way around. You really need to lay off that weed man, its obvious you just can't handle it.
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 04:04:28 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on January 28, 2007, 04:25:10 PM
Quote
There is no tactic, relax no one is attacking, just asking.
Sure there is. It's something you picked up in one of your brainwashing seminars, hence why you all do the same thing. Make outlandish claims, offer zero evidence, when someone else speaks the truth demand irrefutable proof and then deny it no matter how obvious. As to attacking....well you aren't capable of such a feat, nor are you asking anything, you simply continue to spew your propoganda and hope it turns out all right.
Quote
As a little advice?. it is always better to take the approach of proving something to be true than trying to prove someone wrong.
Why? As I said it's much more fun proving you to be wrong.
Quote
As a little advice?. it is always better to take the approach of proving something to be true than trying to prove someone wrong.
I don't need to spin the data, I'm right and youre wrong remember?
Quote
I agree that if you were to poll all the people on Fornits you may prove a point, but remember I want you to take into account the source of your data and whether or not the data represents a cross section of everyone?s view.
Fair enough. Why don't you head on over to the discusshla board and make a comment stating that there are aspects of the program you don't approve of. Make sure you have a stop watch on hand because you'll need it to time how quickly they remove the posts. Another option is for you to head over to the stuggling teens thread. See how long it takes you to get banned for posting negative comments concerning TBS's. The truth of the matter is that fornits is the best means of retreiving such data as it bills itself as neither pro nor con towards TBS's. Simply seeking the truth, which is that most of these places are abusive. If you need other evidence look at the fact that there is not one single independent study or survey proving that most people are satisfied with the results of these places. There are however numerous lawsuits, regulation movements in state legs, exposese's, and studies suggesting a negative view of these places.
Quote
For example if I were to poll a group of people with the question ?Do you think the teachings of Judaism has added more value to you life than Muslim teachings??. I would get a totally different response (data set) if I were to poll people in a Sunni neighborhood vs. downtown Jerusalem.
I see what you mean........just like if I asked a program owner or a brainwashed devotee like yourself they'd say that their TBS was the greatest thing since sliced bread and without their program every kid ever there would be deadorinjail, and how many many kids who suffered through the programs would say that they'd have been much better off had they never gone.
Quote
I guess you haven?t been paying attention. I believe that each school is different and should be measured on its own merits. I don?t take the position that all programs/TBS are the same.
Now you're just getting upset. Calm down or were going to put you on bans with yourself. You repeatedly beg for us to acknowledge that some kids benefit from these places. Fine. Now it's your turn. Acknowledge that some kids, many in fact are abused and hurt by these places. As to your current huffing and puffing, you claim not all TBS's are the same and you apparently think ASR is a great place. Fine we get it, maybe it would be best however if you accepted that many kids and parents who went there do not agree with you. On top of that you accepting that you know nothingabout these other programs would be a positive step.
Get back to me on that Cindy.
Post by: TheWho on January 28, 2007, 04:31:58 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 04:33:13 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Whooow... I think I hit a nerve....good stretch.... does the truth hurt a little Bob?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Another program parent troll, you people are relentless. Im not sure why people take you seriously. Dont you have families to unload your baggage on? Oh thats right.. :rofl:
Post by: RobertBruce on January 28, 2007, 04:40:47 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Whooow... I think I hit a nerve....good stretch.... does the truth hurt a little Bob?
:D Oh no no no Cindy, you didn't. In fact all you're doing is reinforcing my claim about you being brainwashed. The tactic that you're employing right now, I've seen on it here countless times before.
Dodge evade and repeat......always repeat.
Gotta stay away from anything that exposes the truth right Cindy? You let me know if you can shake your programming.
Post by: Ganja on January 28, 2007, 04:43:18 PM
Post by: AtomicAnt on January 28, 2007, 04:45:23 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Oz girl""Six conditions are simultaneously present in a thought reform program: (margaret singer)
* obtaining substantial control over an individual's time and thought content, typically by gaining control over major elements of the person's social and physical environment,
* systematically creating a sense of powerlessness in the person,
* manipulating a system of rewards, punishment. and experiences in such a way as to promote new learning of an ideology or belief system advocated by management,
* manipulating a system of rewards, punishments, and experiences in such a way as to inhibit observable behavior that reflects the values and routines of life organization the individual displayed prior to contact with the group,
* maintaining a closed system of logic and an authoritarian structure in the organization and
* maintaining a non-informed state existing in the subject.
ASR does all of these things!
A young boy who has been home schooled enters the local public school system. Around 10:00 he gets up to go to the boys room. On the way a hall monitor (this is a person who snitches on his peers and got the position because he has been brainwashed to believe all the rules are important) asks him for a hall pass and he doesn?t understand and is quickly escorted to the principal?s office where he is told he must ask permission to leave his class room and that he will have to report to detention (held against his will) after school, where he will be denied access to his family (isolation), miss his bus ride home and was told he cant bring any of his friends with him, nor can he listen to music. On the way back to class he stops at his locker and grabs his lunch which he starts to eat in class. The teacher promptly asks him what he is doing. He explains that in his family they eat at 11:00am and he asked to stand and the teachers asks the class to explain to him what time we eat here at ?Public High?. We eat as a group at 11:30 and everyone laughs (Public humiliation). He finds that he cant speak in class, cant talk to his friends, listen to music, cant get out of his desk or leave the building. The next day he is denied access to school (denied and education) because he is wearing a brown hooded sweat shirt that his grandmother gave him and is told to ask his parents to come in to meet with the principal before he may return.
The next day , in History class, the teacher calls his name and is asked what he is reading. The boy responds that he is reading a book on history and holds it up. The teacher laughs and says you cant get away with that crap here, the asks ?But why??, the teacher responds, ?That?s not the book that has been assigned for you to read?. I want you to go home and write a 1,000 word essay on why you shouldn?t choose your own books in class, which will cause him to loose more family time and incur further isolation?????
This was just his first 2 days?..who do you think will end up conforming to rules and regulations imposed on him against his will? His reward will be less public humiliation, working his way up to hall monitor, learning to not ask questions and just follow the rules as they are told to you, snitching on your friends will be rewarding in the teachers eyes????.this is a Public School!!!!
Yes, and the difference between you and the rest of us is that the above true story (at least part of it) was reported in the news because the boy suffered from serious injustice! Most readers saw it that way. If you are referring to the same story I read, it happened here in Charlotte. My friends and coworkders have kids in that school district and were unanimously outraged. This is not behavior we expect from public school officials.
You seem to think it is okay for him to be treated this way. This is very much a program-like approach to teaching kids.
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 04:48:33 PM
That would be YOU!
I don't think you "hit a nerve with Robert about any TRUTH, either."
WHO, you seem to be the one not facing up the the TRUTH.
You really are a pitiful person, "who" just seems to enjoy hearing their own voice just rattle offf pure bullshit....talking in circles.
How does it feel, I MEAN REALLY FEEL, to be brainwashed?
OR, maybe you are just plain stupid.
Post by: TheWho on January 28, 2007, 04:58:34 PM
Quote from: "AtomicAnt"
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Oz girl""Six conditions are simultaneously present in a thought reform program: (margaret singer)
* obtaining substantial control over an individual's time and thought content, typically by gaining control over major elements of the person's social and physical environment,
* systematically creating a sense of powerlessness in the person,
* manipulating a system of rewards, punishment. and experiences in such a way as to promote new learning of an ideology or belief system advocated by management,
* manipulating a system of rewards, punishments, and experiences in such a way as to inhibit observable behavior that reflects the values and routines of life organization the individual displayed prior to contact with the group,
* maintaining a closed system of logic and an authoritarian structure in the organization and
* maintaining a non-informed state existing in the subject.
ASR does all of these things!
A young boy who has been home schooled enters the local public school system. Around 10:00 he gets up to go to the boys room. On the way a hall monitor (this is a person who snitches on his peers and got the position because he has been brainwashed to believe all the rules are important) asks him for a hall pass and he doesn?t understand and is quickly escorted to the principal?s office where he is told he must ask permission to leave his class room and that he will have to report to detention (held against his will) after school, where he will be denied access to his family (isolation), miss his bus ride home and was told he cant bring any of his friends with him, nor can he listen to music. On the way back to class he stops at his locker and grabs his lunch which he starts to eat in class. The teacher promptly asks him what he is doing. He explains that in his family they eat at 11:00am and he asked to stand and the teachers asks the class to explain to him what time we eat here at ?Public High?. We eat as a group at 11:30 and everyone laughs (Public humiliation). He finds that he cant speak in class, cant talk to his friends, listen to music, cant get out of his desk or leave the building. The next day he is denied access to school (denied and education) because he is wearing a brown hooded sweat shirt that his grandmother gave him and is told to ask his parents to come in to meet with the principal before he may return.
The next day , in History class, the teacher calls his name and is asked what he is reading. The boy responds that he is reading a book on history and holds it up. The teacher laughs and says you cant get away with that crap here, the asks ?But why??, the teacher responds, ?That?s not the book that has been assigned for you to read?. I want you to go home and write a 1,000 word essay on why you shouldn?t choose your own books in class, which will cause him to loose more family time and incur further isolation?????
This was just his first 2 days?..who do you think will end up conforming to rules and regulations imposed on him against his will? His reward will be less public humiliation, working his way up to hall monitor, learning to not ask questions and just follow the rules as they are told to you, snitching on your friends will be rewarding in the teachers eyes????.this is a Public School!!!!
Yes, and the difference between you and the rest of us is that the above true story (at least part of it) was reported in the news because the boy suffered from serious injustice! Most readers saw it that way. If you are referring to the same story I read, it happened here in Charlotte. My friends and coworkders have kids in that school district and were unanimously outraged. This is not behavior we expect from public school officials.
You seem to think it is okay for him to be treated this way. This is very much a program-like approach to teaching kids.[/quote]
Thanks, I am glad others had seen this. Just trying to point out that some TBS's are no harsher than some public high schools.
Post by: Ganja on January 28, 2007, 05:02:17 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Thanks, I am glad others had seen this. Just trying to point out that some TBS's are no harsher than some public high schools.
This is true; I think you see that society (especially compulsory schooling) IS the program to some extent.
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 05:05:55 PM
If they fall out of line at their new charter school they are sent to private school.
If they fall out of line at private school they are sent to program-lite.
If they fall out of line at program-lite they are sent to wilderness.
If they fall out of line at wilderness they are sent to a program.
If they fall out of line at the program they are sent to a gulag in a third world country.
The truth is, all roads lead to Tranquility Bay.
This would of ended at step two if the parents didn't have the money.
Post by: TheWho on January 28, 2007, 05:07:41 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Thanks, I am glad others had seen this. Just trying to point out that some TBS's are no harsher than some public high schools.This is true; I think you see that society (especially compulsory schooling) IS the program to some extent.
Yes, We are all going thru Behavior Mod in our daily lives. Home, work and school.
Post by: Ganja on January 28, 2007, 05:09:48 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Yes, We are all going thru Behavior Mod in our daily lives. Home, work and school.
Well, there's more to the picture than meets the eye.
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 05:10:20 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on January 28, 2007, 05:11:06 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Thanks, I am glad others had seen this. Just trying to point out that some TBS's are no harsher than some public high schools.
No you're trying to villefy public schools to suit your own propoganda, you also like to sugar coat the TBS's. Its okay though, you're like the Manchurian Candidate with the amount of brainwashing you've been put through.
Post by: AtomicAnt on January 28, 2007, 05:13:54 PM
Quote from: TheWho
Quote from: "AtomicAnt"Quote from: "TheWho
Thanks, I am glad others had seen this. Just trying to point out that some TBS's are no harsher than some public high schools.[/quote
That makes them both wrong. It does nothing to exonerate the TBS industry.
Post by: Ganja on January 28, 2007, 05:16:35 PM
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
That makes them both wrong. It does nothing to exonerate the TBS industry.
Exactly.
Post by: AtomicAnt on January 28, 2007, 05:16:39 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Thanks, I am glad others had seen this. Just trying to point out that some TBS's are no harsher than some public high schools.
No you're trying to villefy public schools to suit your own propoganda, you also like to sugar coat the TBS's. Its okay though, you're like the Manchurian Candidate with the amount of brainwashing you've been put through.
It should be noted that the boy's story was reported in the news because it is NOT typical of public schools to act like this. The Who would have us believe this the daily norm in public schools.
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 05:17:05 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""That makes them both wrong. It does nothing to exonerate the TBS industry.Exactly.
Precisely.
Post by: Ganja on January 28, 2007, 05:17:54 PM
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""
It should be noted that the boy's story was reported in the news because it is NOT typical of public schools to act like this. The Who would have us believe this the daily norm in public schools.
Ok, duly noted.
Court will take a 5 minute recess.. :smokin:
Post by: Ganja on January 28, 2007, 05:18:20 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Ganja""Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""That makes them both wrong. It does nothing to exonerate the TBS industry.Exactly.
Precisely.
Indubitably.
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 05:20:44 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""Guest""Indubitably.Quote from: ""Ganja""Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""That makes them both wrong. It does nothing to exonerate the TBS industry.Exactly.
Precisely.
Unquestionably!
Post by: TheWho on January 28, 2007, 05:21:06 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""Guest""Indubitably.Quote from: ""Ganja""Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""That makes them both wrong. It does nothing to exonerate the TBS industry.Exactly.
Precisely.
Incisively
Post by: Ganja on January 28, 2007, 05:21:24 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Ganja""IncisivelyQuote from: ""Guest""Indubitably.Quote from: ""Ganja""Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""That makes them both wrong. It does nothing to exonerate the TBS industry.Exactly.
Precisely.
Absolutely.
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 05:23:42 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Absolutely.Quote from: ""Ganja""IncisivelyQuote from: ""Guest""Indubitably.Quote from: ""Ganja""Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""That makes them both wrong. It does nothing to exonerate the TBS industry.Exactly.
Precisely.
Definitely.
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 05:29:44 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 28, 2007, 05:29:58 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Ganja""Quote from: ""TheWho""Absolutely.Quote from: ""Ganja""IncisivelyQuote from: ""Guest""Indubitably.Quote from: ""Ganja""Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""That makes them both wrong. It does nothing to exonerate the TBS industry.Exactly.
Precisely.
Definitely.
Genuinely
Post by: Ganja on January 28, 2007, 05:34:47 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
(http://http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r237/Fornits/funny1.gif)
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
All the "ly"s.
Post by: TheWho on January 28, 2007, 06:47:10 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Thanks, I am glad others had seen this. Just trying to point out that some TBS's are no harsher than some public high schools.
No you're trying to villefy public schools to suit your own propoganda, you also like to sugar coat the TBS's. Its okay though, you're like the Manchurian Candidate with the amount of brainwashing you've been put through.
That is such a coincidence, I was just having the same dream about propaganda.......
Post by: Oz girl on January 28, 2007, 06:52:23 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 28, 2007, 07:05:13 PM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
If then you agree that both ways are wrong then why would you send your daughter to ASR ? At least the public school kid got to go home and get away from the madness!
Because she needed the therapeutic component that was absent at other schools. There is no perfect solution except maybe home schooling, which may come close.
Behavior Mod is present where ever we go, it starts at birth and when your mother smiles at you (positive reinforcement) when you take your first steps and continues on from there.
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 07:28:55 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I WON'T UNDERSTAND! I WON'T I WON'T I WON'T! And I'll just keep on repasting the same tired old bullshit because I CAN'T EVER ADMIT I did something WRONG! Waaaaahhhh...
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 07:38:55 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Because she needed the coercion component that was absent at other schools. There is no perfect solution except maybe home schooling, which may come close, but I am never home and don't have the authority to coerce using the methods programs can use, I would be charged with abuse.
Behavior Mod is present where ever we go, it starts at birth and when your mother slaps you (behaviour mod) when you spit up formula and continues on from there through teenage gulags into adult prison.
Post by: TheWho on January 28, 2007, 07:46:06 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
Quote from: ""TheWho""I WON'T UNDERSTAND! I WON'T I WON'T I WON'T! And I'll just keep on repasting the same tired old bullshit because I CAN'T EVER ADMIT I did something WRONG! Waaaaahhhh...
Lactose -- I have done plenty of things wrong in the past and made mistakes in my parenting, I think we all have. I have no problem admitting when I am wrong, but the decision to send my daughter to ASR wasnt one of them, it ended up having a positive effect on all of us.
Post by: TheWho on January 28, 2007, 07:49:05 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Because she needed the coercion component that was absent at other schools. There is no perfect solution except maybe home schooling, which may come close, but I am never home and don't have the authority to coerce using the methods programs can use, I would be charged with abuse.
Behavior Mod is present where ever we go, it starts at birth and when your mother slaps you (behaviour mod) when you spit up formula and continues on from there through teenage gulags into adult prison.
And Who says Bob doesnt have a sense of humor?
Post by: Oz girl on January 28, 2007, 07:52:12 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 28, 2007, 07:55:28 PM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
So why did she end up running away to new york then? Surely the whole point of ASR was to prevent that.
She never went to New York. She came home had a tough transition for a few weeks and then settled down and moved on.......
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on January 28, 2007, 08:53:30 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""Quote from: ""TheWho""I WON'T UNDERSTAND! I WON'T I WON'T I WON'T! And I'll just keep on repasting the same tired old bullshit because I CAN'T EVER ADMIT I did something WRONG! Waaaaahhhh...
Lactose -- I have done plenty of things wrong in the past and made mistakes in my parenting, I think we all have. I have no problem admitting when I am wrong, but the decision to send my daughter to ASR wasnt one of them, it ended up having a positive effect on all of us.
Gosh Who, I thought I was special having my own thread over on the WWASPS page. But, now I see yours here, and I am laughing my ass off. Nice to know somebody on here is able to defend themselves with a witty sense of humor. Instead of getting angry, and vulgar.
I am growing lactose intolerant myself, LOL!!! Sometimes, you have to take a vacation to get away from all this nonsense. It just gets so old! I'm packing my bags right now.
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 08:55:43 PM
And, why didn't your daughter speak to you....for what? a couple of years?
Some transition.
Post by: Ganja on January 28, 2007, 08:57:23 PM
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
I'm packing my bags right now.
Glad to see you go, go, go, go, GOODBYE!! :wave: :rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 08:57:28 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2007, 09:04:51 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
CCM, you won't pack you bags. You are a narcissitic attention whore. Look at you, even jumping threads to get your attention feed. Even stealing The Who's thunder.
:rofl:
Post by: RobertBruce on January 28, 2007, 11:40:10 PM
Quote
And Who says Bob doesnt have a sense of humor?
As funny as it was Cindy I cannot take credit for it. I'll always sign my name to all my love notes to you kitten.
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on January 29, 2007, 12:18:19 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
CCM, you won't pack you bags. You are a narcissitic attention whore. Look at you, even jumping threads to get your attention feed. Even stealing The Who's thunder.
I've always jumped back and forth between WWASPS and the Troubled Teen Industry. You're the ones who compared me to The Who, then I stumbled upon The Whos thread much like mine, but in here.
You've compared me to a lot of people like Happy Troll, Sue Scheff, Karen in Dallas, The Who, etc. etc., the list goes on. I just happen to like The Who, and they make me laugh. The Who is welcome in my thread anytime.
Stealing thunder from The Who? Naw, I don't think so!
Post by: TheWho on January 29, 2007, 08:32:00 AM
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
Quote from: ""Guest""CCM, you won't pack you bags. You are a narcissitic attention whore. Look at you, even jumping threads to get your attention feed. Even stealing The Who's thunder.
I've always jumped back and forth between WWASPS and the Troubled Teen Industry. You're the ones who compared me to The Who, then I stumbled upon The Whos thread much like mine, but in here.
You've compared me to a lot of people like Happy Troll, Sue Scheff, Karen in Dallas, The Who, etc. etc., the list goes on. I just happen to like The Who, and they make me laugh. The Who is welcome in my thread anytime.
Stealing thunder from The Who? Naw, I don't think so!
Thanks CCM Girl, I have taken some time off, also, when I travel. Its good to get a break. I will have to check out your threads
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2007, 01:11:11 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 29, 2007, 02:01:35 PM
Quote from: ""freak-o""
Cindy's chauffeur tucked his big hard sissy cock back into his panties as he skilfully parked the limo alongside the sidewalk outside the Cloud 9 gay club. He got out of the vehicle and sashayed around to the passenger door, the outrageously high fetish heels of his hot sexy boots making a loud clacking noise as he walked. He opened the door and helped his sissy partner out of the vehicle and watched as Cindy walked sexily towards the main entrance. The sissy chauffeur licked his lipsticked lips as he watched Cindy's wiggling butt.
I know who calls me Cindy.... you are getting scary, Bob, you reveal way too much about yourself. It doesnt appear like that was the first time you wrote a story like that......
Post by: Troll Control on January 29, 2007, 02:26:33 PM
Who: "Hi, my name's Who and I have sex with other men."
Group: "Welcome, Who!"
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2007, 03:07:16 PM
Lots of folks here think these thoughts,,.WHO.
You never answered MY question: Why didn't your daughter speak to you for a couple of years, huh?
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2007, 03:20:36 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
How come The Who always thinks Robert Bruce writes every single negative thing about The Who?
The same reason Bush thinks God talks directly to him, they are delusional.
Post by: Oz girl on January 29, 2007, 03:26:00 PM
-The school year alone was roughly only 9 months long. This left 3 for kids to be at home
-kids went home for 5 days over thanksgiving
-Kids went home for about 2 weeks over xmas
-there were at least 2 weekends where most of my class mates left on saturday and came back on sunday night to go an look at colleges. I suppose such things dont really matter at ASR as academics are not a priority
-I beleive there was a spring break as well but i cant recall how long it was
So even at a school which prided itself on being strict and structured, out of 9 months there were at least 20 days where kids were off campus and with loved ones with no bullshit conditions. Have things changed at normal BS recently?
Post by: RobertBruce on January 29, 2007, 03:26:47 PM
When I insult you (mention facts about you) I'll always sign my name to it. That's a promise.
In the meantime you may want to accept that I'm not the only one on here who recognizes what an arrogant ignoramous jackass you are. Afterall it's not all that different from your day to day life, or are you going to blame me for the fact that your secretary puts piss in your coffee, your waiters spit on your food, and your daughter didn't talk to you for two years. Maybe it's not me Cindy, maybe it's you.
Post by: Anonymous on January 29, 2007, 03:41:01 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 29, 2007, 03:45:09 PM
Quote
The school year alone was roughly only 9 months long. This left 3 for kids to be at home
ASR schools their children year round. There are schools that go year round and are not considered abusive.
-
Quote
kids went home for 5 days over thanksgiving
Kids did not go home for thanksgiving. I know of some schools that only gave the kids 4 days, would this be considered abusive?
Quote
Kids went home for about 2 weeks over xmas
Some kids were not ready to go home, others did not celebrate Christmas or Thanksgiving, some kids did go home for Christmas, Some kids were just starting the program. It just wasn?t manageable. Most schools have a specific start date and end date. ASR has kids starting all year long, so scheduled holidays are difficult at best.
Parents and family do come to the school to visit and kids get to go home a few times.
Quote
there were at least 2 weekends where most of my class mates left on Saturday and came back on Sunday night to go an look at colleges. I suppose such things don?t really matter at ASR as academics are not a priority
All the kids that I knew would take off with their folks to visit colleges if they were perusing at the time. They never restricted this.
Quote
I believe there was a spring break as well but i cant recall how long it was
So even at a school which prided itself on being strict and structured, out of 9 months there were at least 20 days where kids were off campus and with loved ones with no bullshit conditions. Have things changed at normal BS recently?
ASR does not have a spring break? There are many colleges that do not have a spring break and teach year round. It is not abusive to not have this.
Post by: Oz girl on January 29, 2007, 03:49:12 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 29, 2007, 03:54:11 PM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
it might not be "abusive" but it does make it a prison without walls. its funny because in the book you recommended to me on ASR at least 3 of the main kids were old enough to be considering college yet there was no mention of leaving to visit colleges. When did this change?
Not sure if there was a change. I remember talking to a few kids/parents in my daughters peer group and their trip to see colleges. My daughter was younger then so it wasnt an issue. I cant imagine any school not allowing that.
Post by: TheWho on January 29, 2007, 03:59:21 PM
Quote
it might not be "abusive" but it does make it a prison without walls.
I guess if you are use to having a lot of time off it would seem that way. Some kids consider home a prison if they are grounded for a week!!! So I guess it is all relative.
Post by: RobertBruce on January 29, 2007, 04:01:43 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 29, 2007, 04:49:20 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
HLA didn't.
If that is HLA's policy than I disagree with it and feel it is not right.
Post by: TheWho on February 02, 2007, 04:02:55 PM
My compliments go to the Academy at Swift River for having such successful program graduates as determined by the measures used in this study. Hopefully the center will be able to address some of the problem areas as indicated by the BASC scales, and will use my research as a starting point for many other outcome evaluations. These should include studies after longer follow up intervals, and a study to clarify whether family relations are in fact as good as the families report, or as problematic as the BASC implies. The implications of this research, however, extend well beyond the scope of ASR?s treatment program. I recommend that other residential treatment centers for adolescents also secure positive aftercare arrangements for their students and gradually allow students to test the values learned during treatment in the real world prior to a final discharge. My findings contradict the idea that making fundamental changes during late adolescence is nearly impossible (Loeber, 1991) and also dispel the myth that long-term treatment is detrimental to normal development. The most important finding of this study is that residential treatment for troubled adolescents has the potential to be extremely effective.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 02, 2007, 04:04:19 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 02, 2007, 04:04:43 PM
Here take a look again:
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Outside a TBS:
There where 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides
Inside a TBS
There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... &start=450 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20495&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=450)
(3rd post)
Post by: RobertBruce on February 02, 2007, 04:06:14 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 02, 2007, 05:12:50 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
What he means to say is that there were 16 homicides in TBS during that time period. Simple type-oI put it here so I could find it
pssssst. ask Bob if he can produce just one name....... of the 16... they dont exist.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 02, 2007, 05:15:51 PM
There's one. So that brings us to 3 deaths in TBS's so far. Cindy would rather we didnt mention them, but the rest of us have a bit more respect for the dead.
Post by: TheWho on February 02, 2007, 05:17:18 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Jerry McLaurin
There's one. So that brings us to 3 deaths in TBS's so far. Cindy would rather we didnt mention them, but the rest of us have a bit more respect for the dead.
We havent found 1 yet.... where is the link for this?
Post by: TheWho on February 02, 2007, 05:21:08 PM
I have reviewed every one of your entries and you failed to research them first, we didnt find a single match yet
Post by: RobertBruce on February 02, 2007, 05:24:15 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 02, 2007, 05:25:10 PM
Cindy youve already seen the link.
Post by: TheWho on February 02, 2007, 05:32:44 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Awwww Cindy, but they do. Tell me why you think poor Jerry doesnt count? Along with of course Candace Newmaker and Sabrina Day?
For one: This occured at a private home!
http://tinyurl.com/2ksh58 (http://tinyurl.com/2ksh58)
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 02, 2007, 05:40:21 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
V.Shapiro response:
My compliments go to the Academy at Swift River for having such successful program graduates as determined by the measures used in this study. Hopefully the center will be able to address some of the problem areas as indicated by the BASC scales, and will use my research as a starting point for many other outcome evaluations. These should include studies after longer follow up intervals, and a study to clarify whether family relations are in fact as good as the families report, or as problematic as the BASC implies. The implications of this research, however, extend well beyond the scope of ASR?s treatment program. I recommend that other residential treatment centers for adolescents also secure positive aftercare arrangements for their students and gradually allow students to test the values learned during treatment in the real world prior to a final discharge. My findings contradict the idea that making fundamental changes during late adolescence is nearly impossible (Loeber, 1991) and also dispel the myth that long-term treatment is detrimental to normal development. The most important finding of this study is that residential treatment for troubled adolescents has the potential to be extremely effective.
The findings of a STUDENT that says long term treatment is detremental and that you can't make fundamental changes?
Ok, sure, assuming you buy that....
In her own words she says it has POTENTIAL, but no proof that it is.
So why even say it?
Post by: TheWho on February 02, 2007, 05:44:30 PM
You can go to sleep tonight feeling like a winner !!!!
We know that is important to you.......
Post by: RobertBruce on February 02, 2007, 05:52:19 PM
Quote
For one: This occured at a private home!
Cindy Cindy Cindy, calm down. I know you have to have your way but this nothing for you to get so upset over, you don't give a shit about these kids anyway. Dry your eyes and blow your nose and relax, then when you can use your big boy voice we can continue this conversation like grown ups.
In the meantime recognize the fact that one using wikipedia is not the most credible source but two even if the information is accurate this woman was hired from a theraputic institute for children. No way around that Cindy, it makes zero difference where the kid died, it was done under the supervision of a theraputic (unlicesned) nurse from a theraputic institute. Or do you agree with Sue Scheff that if a kid dies at the hospital as a result from injuries obtained a TBS the respondsibility is no longer that of the TBS?
Let us know Cindy.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 02, 2007, 05:53:38 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Bob, look at it this way. If it was your goal to keep me busy running around looking up the false data you are feeding me... then you won !!!! You managed to waste hours !!
You can go to sleep tonight feeling like a winner !!!!
We know that is important to you.......
Oh I go to sleep every night knowing I'm a winner Cindy, maybe someday you can know what that feels like. Highlighting your idiocy and ruining that credibility with parents you so desperatly crave, well that's just a bonus.
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 02, 2007, 05:54:45 PM
So let him continue!
Post by: TheWho on February 02, 2007, 08:04:53 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteFor one: This occured at a private home!
Cindy Cindy Cindy, calm down. I know you have to have your way but this nothing for you to get so upset over, you don't give a shit about these kids anyway. Dry your eyes and blow your nose and relax, then when you can use your big boy voice we can continue this conversation like grown ups.
In the meantime recognize the fact that one using wikipedia is not the most credible source but two even if the information is accurate this woman was hired from a theraputic institute for children. No way around that Cindy, it makes zero difference where the kid died, it was done under the supervision of a theraputic (unlicesned) nurse from a theraputic institute. Or do you agree with Sue Scheff that if a kid dies at the hospital as a result from injuries obtained a TBS the respondsibility is no longer that of the TBS?
Let us know Cindy.
If the child is attending a TBS and is hurt their, transported to a hospital and dies of the injuries caused at the TBS then I would think it would be counted as a TBS data not a Public sector.
In the case of this little girl who died after receiving Attachment therapy, she was never in a TBS. She traveled to a nurses house for treatment. She never attended a Therapeutic boarding school.
I do care about this child, Bob, they are all important, but for comparision purposes we need to weigh these the same way the NCES did.
I dont think the people going thru the data at NCES come across a senario of say a kid who was forced to run around a track by his coach and he dies of a heart attack and the NCES guy says "hey look at this one, the judge called it a natural death but I think we shuold change it to homicide because I think the coach was responsible!!" They cant and dont do that, they go by the judges ruling everytime and that is what we need to do.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 02, 2007, 11:22:18 PM
Quote
If the child is attending a TBS and is hurt their, transported to a hospital and dies of the injuries caused at the TBS then I would think it would be counted as a TBS data not a Public sector.
But its not Cindy thats the problem. These places self regulate and they sweep these things under the rug.
Quote
In the case of this little girl who died after receiving Attachment therapy, she was never in a TBS. She traveled to a nurses house for treatment. She never attended a Therapeutic boarding school.
Once again Cindy no one ever said she was. Tell me though what would you term what she was in? Afterall her parents contacted a theraputic institute and paid money to receive services from them. The girl was to be locked in for ten days and recieve therapy. What would you call it Cindy?
Quote
I do care about this child, Bob,
Obviously not.
Quote
they are all important
so long as they pay.
Quote
but for comparision purposes we need to weigh these the same way the NCES did.
and again you do not know how NCES weighed these deaths, thus you cannot comment on them.
Quote
I dont think the people going thru the data at NCES come across a senario of say a kid who was forced to run around a track by his coach and he dies of a heart attack and the NCES guy says "hey look at this one, the judge called it a natural death but I think we shuold change it to homicide because I think the coach was responsible!!"
Show me a situation similar to this in recent memory. Then we can address it. Also youre still ingnoring that most of the time the people respondsible for the deaths in the TBS's are never brought before a criminal trial. Since thats the case how can the judge ever rule on the matter?
Quote
They cant and dont do that, they go by the judges ruling everytime and that is what we need to do.
Again judges are seldom involved in the TBS cases at least on the criminal side. Don't you find it odd that of all the many cases over all the years of all the deaths there are so seldom criminal charges brought to bear on deaths that occur in TBS's. Doesn't that seem amiss to you or are you far to brainwashed?
Post by: TheWho on February 03, 2007, 03:56:40 PM
Quote
Again judges are seldom involved in the TBS cases at least on the criminal side. Don't you find it odd that of all the many cases over all the years of all the deaths there are so seldom criminal charges brought to bear on deaths that occur in TBS's. Doesn't that seem amiss to you or are you far to brainwashed?
Look, the data is taken from the criminal justice system reports. If they are deemed, by the justice system, as Homicides or suicides (in this case) they are added, thats what the NCES does.
If no criminal charges are brought up after a kid has been killed in the public sector it doesnt show up either, in order to do this your way we would have to stand over the shoulder of every NCES person and second guess their decision.
When gathering information one needs to rely on the source and keep it standard throughout, in this case the justice systems records.
Post by: hanzomon4 on February 03, 2007, 04:18:35 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 03, 2007, 06:20:51 PM
Onward then...
Quote
Look, the data is taken from the criminal justice system reports. If they are deemed, by the justice system, as Homicides or suicides (in this case) they are added, thats what the NCES does.
If no criminal charges are brought up after a kid has been killed in the public sector it doesnt show up either, in order to do this your way we would have to stand over the shoulder of every NCES person and second guess their decision.
Cindy no one cares even if youre ramblings are true. It has nothing to do with what I asked you. I asked you if you thought it was odd that of all the many deaths in the private theraputic sector so few ever result in criminal charges being filed. It's a simple question, ask for help if you need it.
Also you need to stop rehashing points youve already lost. Cindy it's been proven using your own numbers that kids in the private theraputic sector are more likely to be killed by staff or kill themselves than those kids in the public schools or public sector.
Let me know if you need it explained to you again.
Post by: Anonymous on February 03, 2007, 06:34:39 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Yeah but its like driving by a car wreck, you just have to look. Not only do we get to rob these places of a potential recruiter by providing the truth to his propoganda, but he's so full of himself its hysterical to watch him fluster.
Not really but w/e.
Quote
Onward then...
great. :roll:
Post by: TheWho on February 04, 2007, 12:15:27 PM
Here is how it looks to start:
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data:
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS:
There where 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides
Inside a TBS
There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. (no data collected yet for TBS?s)
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2007, 12:19:49 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 04, 2007, 12:22:17 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Just for my own records, I thought I would move on and start collecting data for the next year. Which will be July1, 2000 thru June 2001.
Here is how it looks to start:
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data:
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Cindy I think everyone would prefer we move this conversation over to the thread set up for it. After that I'd be glad to prove you wrong again.
Post by: teachback on February 04, 2007, 12:23:44 PM
TheWho has got ppl running around like headless chickens in effort to disprove his ridiculous claims.
Why are we so worried that ppl will believe him? :roll:
If he does in fact get paid to post here, you all are helping.. ::both::
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2007, 12:32:51 PM
Quote from: ""grasshopper""
If he does in fact get paid to post here, you all are helping.. ::both::
Maybe it's slowly driving ASR bankrupt?
Then, wait... TheWho would probably open his own program with the money.
:scared:
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2007, 12:36:16 PM
If 126879 kids goes to a TBS and 10 kill themselves this means that TheWho likes to smear peanut butter on his balls and let his dog lick it off.
If 585669 are currently in public school, and 32 killed themselves in year 2003, that is equivilent to TheWho gently caressing his ass hole with a armor hot dog. Slowly applying ketchup and mustard while rolling the dog around the plate he brings it closer to himself and in a large exhale he pushes it all the way in until fingers touch skin. He's careful not to let it slip away, so he tied a string to it.
If 43749327 hundred students are currently in high school, and 358 injure or harm themselves in accidents each year. That means that TheWho likes to pile up his childhood teddy bears and cover them with a sheet. He uses string to tie up his creation in the shape of a woman and uses a sharpie to draw a face, eyes and body parts on his teddy bear creation. He cuts a few holes in it and fills the holes with whip cream. He lays down in bed with his creation and turns off the lights.
TBS have over 68933 kids currently in them. 10475 kids end up being worse off and that's not good at all.
Based on my mathematics and statistics, TBS are not any better for kids than tying them down to a chair and using fishhooks to hold their eyes open and watch films of people committing suicide, being raped and dying of drug overdoses to scare them straight.
Its no more effective than that according to the numbers, and numbers don't lie.
Post by: TheWho on February 04, 2007, 12:54:18 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 04, 2007, 01:07:43 PM
I know it's cold today but is it really cold enough for hell to have frozen over?
Cindy why dont you head over to the thread I set up for this conversation. There youll find plenty of deaths to dismiss and spin.
Post by: ZenAgent on February 04, 2007, 02:17:15 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 04, 2007, 03:41:58 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Your list is incomplete, who. Continue your research, ...........................
Yeah, I know, thanks Zen....... just pulling names together now, I found some more on another thread and a list on-line. I'll have to go thru them to see if they meet the NCES parameters and then start adding them in.......
Post by: RobertBruce on February 04, 2007, 03:48:24 PM
Head on over to the other thread Cindy, there are still some childrens deaths for you to dismiss.
Post by: teachback on February 04, 2007, 03:50:23 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
The NCES parameters? You mean your parameters, the NCES doesnt deal with the private theraputic sector, and whatsmore you don't even know what parameters they do have for the public one. At least you arent willing to recongize them anyway, or did you forget that whole "legal intervention" comment I posted for you yesterday?
Head on over to the other thread Cindy, there are still some childrens deaths for you to dismiss.
Actually Who, don't.
Go listen to some Steve Miller or something instead. You'll be glad you did.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 04, 2007, 03:53:20 PM
When youre ready though....
Quote
In this indicator, a school-associated violent death is a homicide, suicide, legal intervention (involving a law enforcement officer), or unintentional firearm-related death in which the fatal injury occurred on the campus
Thats the NCES parameters, not yours.
Post by: TheWho on February 04, 2007, 03:56:00 PM
Quote from: ""grasshopper""
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""The NCES parameters? You mean your parameters, the NCES doesnt deal with the private theraputic sector, and whatsmore you don't even know what parameters they do have for the public one. At least you arent willing to recongize them anyway, or did you forget that whole "legal intervention" comment I posted for you yesterday?Actually Who, don't.
Head on over to the other thread Cindy, there are still some childrens deaths for you to dismiss.
Go listen to some Steve Miller or something instead. You'll be glad you did.
Yeah, thanks grasshopper, I think I'll take your advice and try to stay focused........I'm doing a little Dave Matthews right now.....
Post by: RobertBruce on February 04, 2007, 04:34:36 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 04, 2007, 07:41:44 PM
Here is how it looks to start:
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)
Just to clarify: We are tracking homicides, suicides, legal interventions (involving a law enforcement officer) and also unintentional firearm-related deaths in which the fatal injury occurred on the campus
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data:
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS:
There where 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides
Inside a TBS
There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicides. (Data still being collected for TBS?s)
Ryan Lewis suicide feb 13, 2001 Aldredge Academy (counted)
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2007, 07:44:54 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 04, 2007, 07:51:20 PM
1 out of every 3,334 kids being killed by staff members.
and
1 out of every 20,000 kids committing suicide.
This is for the period between June 2000-July 2001
Cindy any chance we can see your source for this data? Also let's get a look how many deaths actually occured in school?
If anyone else has other names to add to the list feel free, Cindy feels he can dictate what deaths will and will not be counted, however this is an open forum and he doesnt get his way just because he says so.
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2007, 08:24:12 PM
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin::
Post by: RobertBruce on February 04, 2007, 10:00:49 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 04, 2007, 10:13:41 PM
When embarking on discovery it is important to define the parameters you will be confined to so as to limit the arguments later on when the data is analyzed. That is why I have been such a stickler in reiterating (Et Nauseum sometime, I know) the parameters we are constricted to. We could pick many parameters, mental hospitals, group homes, boot camps etc. but from talking to other parents, the PM's and the emails I have received, I feel, there is value to narrow our scope to TBS?s, at least for now. I know many of you have mentioned it and I fully realize that Wilderness may be a good second choice and we can tackle that later on and maybe parallel the data with the TBS?s to see how they compare. One major resource that can be tapped into is the NCES. They are well respected and have been collecting data for years and have set very clear boundary conditions on where their data comes from and have proven themselves repeatedly to be consistent year after year. I have proposed and am embarking on a task to parallel their effort in the TBS sector. I have completed the year ending in June 2000 and am presently working on filling the data points for the year ending June 2001.
My hope in all of this is to shed some light on the physical safety of our children as they enter and go through TBS ?s as a small subset of the therapeutic community as a whole and as compared to the public sector. There are other studies which are underway which are lumping all non public programs together (i.e. mental hospitals, group homes, boot camps, wilderness programs) in an effort to examine them against the same criteria (NCES) which should yield interesting in itself, but my focus is strictly TBS?s.
My progress may be slow, but I promise methodical. If anyone has any information which may aid in the collection of this data I would appreciate the help and added accuracy.
I will update my findings as often as I can,
Thanks
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 04, 2007, 10:23:49 PM
YOU are stalling and obfuscating.
This shit has been wrong from the start and the actual PROFESSIONALS in treatment and psychology have acknowledged this more than once, you simply choose to ignore it and let children languish in programs while you find new ways to cook the books and spin the numbers, or stall for more data.
Regardless, keeping a child in a program, as unsafe as they are, is fucking ridiculous, and I think we could make an arguement they're MORE likely to survive with zero treatment than programming.
Yes, thats right, I came out and said it - you're more likely to die in a program than not in one, no matter how 'dire' the likelyhood of deadinsaneorinjail.
Post by: TheWho on February 04, 2007, 10:43:51 PM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
I thought your data regarded only private TBS programs?QuoteMartin Lee Anderson, dead at age 14, Bay County Sheriff's boot camp, Florida
If that is the case you should remove this name from the list.
Yes the list is misleading, I will remove it. I copied and pasted the entire list over to this thread so I could review it. My intenion was not that they were part of the study.... thanks for pointing that out, TSW
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2007, 10:44:37 PM
Quote from: ""Who's Daughter""
If 1048 kids go to a TBS and 5 kill themselves that means that suicide is an escape method for kids.
If 126879 kids goes to a TBS and 10 kill themselves this means that TheWho likes to smear peanut butter on his balls and let his dog lick it off.
If 585669 are currently in public school, and 32 killed themselves in year 2003, that is equivilent to TheWho gently caressing his ass hole with a armor hot dog. Slowly applying ketchup and mustard while rolling the dog around the plate he brings it closer to himself and in a large exhale he pushes it all the way in until fingers touch skin. He's careful not to let it slip away, so he tied a string to it.
If 43749327 hundred students are currently in high school, and 358 injure or harm themselves in accidents each year. That means that TheWho likes to pile up his childhood teddy bears and cover them with a sheet. He uses string to tie up his creation in the shape of a woman and uses a sharpie to draw a face, eyes and body parts on his teddy bear creation. He cuts a few holes in it and fills the holes with whip cream. He lays down in bed with his creation and turns off the lights.
TBS have over 68933 kids currently in them. 10475 kids end up being worse off and that's not good at all.
Based on my mathematics and statistics, TBS are not any better for kids than tying them down to a chair and using fishhooks to hold their eyes open and watch films of people committing suicide, being raped and dying of drug overdoses to scare them straight.
Its no more effective than that according to the numbers, and numbers don't lie.
:P
Post by: Anne Bonney on February 04, 2007, 10:47:49 PM
Quote from: ""Who's Daughter""
If 1048 kids go to a TBS and 5 kill themselves that means that suicide is an escape method for kids.
If 126879 kids goes to a TBS and 10 kill themselves this means that TheWho likes to smear peanut butter on his balls and let his dog lick it off.
If 585669 are currently in public school, and 32 killed themselves in year 2003, that is equivilent to TheWho gently caressing his ass hole with a armor hot dog. Slowly applying ketchup and mustard while rolling the dog around the plate he brings it closer to himself and in a large exhale he pushes it all the way in until fingers touch skin. He's careful not to let it slip away, so he tied a string to it.
If 43749327 hundred students are currently in high school, and 358 injure or harm themselves in accidents each year. That means that TheWho likes to pile up his childhood teddy bears and cover them with a sheet. He uses string to tie up his creation in the shape of a woman and uses a sharpie to draw a face, eyes and body parts on his teddy bear creation. He cuts a few holes in it and fills the holes with whip cream. He lays down in bed with his creation and turns off the lights.
TBS have over 68933 kids currently in them. 10475 kids end up being worse off and that's not good at all.
Based on my mathematics and statistics, TBS are not any better for kids than tying them down to a chair and using fishhooks to hold their eyes open and watch films of people committing suicide, being raped and dying of drug overdoses to scare them straight.
Its no more effective than that according to the numbers, and numbers don't lie.
:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: ::cheers:: :smokin: ::bandit:: ::bwahaha:: ::bwahaha:: ::bwahaha:: ::bwahaha2:: ::bwahaha2:: ::rocker:: ::rocker:: ::rocker:: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: TheWho on February 04, 2007, 10:56:08 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
We are not anywhere.
YOU are stalling and obfuscating.
This shit has been wrong from the start and the actual PROFESSIONALS in treatment and psychology have acknowledged this more than once, you simply choose to ignore it and let children languish in programs while you find new ways to cook the books and spin the numbers, or stall for more data.
Regardless, keeping a child in a program, as unsafe as they are, is fucking ridiculous, and I think we could make an arguement they're MORE likely to survive with zero treatment than programming.
Yes, thats right, I came out and said it - you're more likely to die in a program than not in one, no matter how 'dire' the likelyhood of deadinsaneorinjail.
Niles first of all you tipped your hand (with the use of the word obfuscating) and exposed the fact that you listen to (and enjoy) the O'Riley factor every night.... with that known you cant possibly believe that turning a blind eye to empirical data is the answer. I don?t think any of us really know until the data is collected.
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 04, 2007, 11:11:41 PM
I hate Bil ORLY and do not watch his show.
Also, who cares about tipping what hand? Its called a #800 gorilla that everyone neglects to recognize.
I don't need data of death rates to see that its stupid to do that to children.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 04, 2007, 11:24:31 PM
Quote
I would like to reiterate that we are only at the data collection phase. There cant be any right or wrong, it is what it is. Parameters are defined and the data either meets the criteria or it doesn?t.
When embarking on discovery it is important to define the parameters you will be confined to so as to limit the arguments later on when the data is analyzed. That is why I have been such a stickler in reiterating (Et Nauseum sometime, I know) the parameters we are constricted to. We could pick many parameters, mental hospitals, group homes, boot camps etc. but from talking to other parents, the PM's and the emails I have received, I feel, there is value to narrow our scope to TBS?s, at least for now. I know many of you have mentioned it and I fully realize that Wilderness may be a good second choice and we can tackle that later on and maybe parallel the data with the TBS?s to see how they compare. One major resource that can be tapped into is the NCES. They are well respected and have been collecting data for years and have set very clear boundary conditions on where their data comes from and have proven themselves repeatedly to be consistent year after year. I have proposed and am embarking on a task to parallel their effort in the TBS sector. I have completed the year ending in June 2000 and am presently working on filling the data points for the year ending June 2001.
My hope in all of this is to shed some light on the physical safety of our children as they enter and go through TBS ?s as a small subset of the therapeutic community as a whole and as compared to the public sector. There are other studies which are underway which are lumping all non public programs together (i.e. mental hospitals, group homes, boot camps, wilderness programs) in an effort to examine them against the same criteria (NCES) which should yield interesting in itself, but my focus is strictly TBS?s.
My progress may be slow, but I promise methodical. If anyone has any information which may aid in the collection of this data I would appreciate the help and added accuracy.
I will update my findings as often as I can,
Thanks
Cindy in all likelyhood the only parents who have ever spoken to you about this issue were the ones subjecting their children to the same mistreatement you subjected your daughter to. Any claim that parents on here have turned to you for advice on these matters is without question a lie. As much as you'd like to believe that your credibility level is sky high, the reality of the situation is that it's in the sewers. No one puts any stock into anything you say, youre a joke and a waste of time. The only reason I respond to you is to frustrate you by posting the truth every time you post a lie. Which is generally every time you post something.
As to any parameters, you continue to pretend the NCES has dealt with this issue, it has not. The NCES doesnt even comment on the PTS, you also continue to want to change the parameters depending on what you're looking at. If its the data regarding the public sector then according to you (and you alone the NCES does not agree) then the data should all be lumped together and counted as one big thing. If it's data regarding the private theraputic sector than it needs to split up as much as possible and looked at only one piece at a time, anything to try and prove a point you lost long ago. As I've told you many times on here Cindy, you cannot have it both ways.
So then with that in mind here is the way the figures currently stand for the time period in question:
In the public sector out of 52,000,000 kids 2059 were killed outside of school, roughly translating to:
1 out of every 25,255 kids being killed outside of school.
of those same 52,000,000 1,890 committed suicide outside of school.
Translating to roughly
1 out of every 27,513 kids committing suicide outside of school.
In the Private Theraputic Sector out of 20,000 kids 6 kids were killed by staff members, translating to:
1 out of every 3,334 kids being killed by staff members.
Of those same 20,000 kids 1 committed suicide, translating to:
1 out of every 20,000 kids killing themselves.
You are free to split all the hairs you like and set all the parameters you like as well, we however are not bound by your demands and will continue to present parents with all the information availible since parents should be presented with all the possible options, not just the ones you want them to see.
If you can't handle it I suggest you move on. The hla boards and strugglingteens might prove a more receptive audience for your misinformation.
Post by: TheWho on February 04, 2007, 11:26:31 PM
Quote
I don't need data of death rates to see that its stupid to do that to children.
I agree, I don?t need the data either. But parents who are looking for a safe place for their child are looking for some assurance (as a bare minimum) that the place the child is going is at least safer than where they are now.
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2007, 11:27:37 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 04, 2007, 11:31:15 PM
Cindy perhaps you could look at each school individually. The overall data has already proven two years in a row that the public sector is a great deal safer than the private theraputic one, and this is just dealing with deaths. We havent even touched rapes and other abuses.
Try it that way, you might have some better luck.
Has ASR ever had any children killed while enrolled there?
Any of their students ever committ suicide?
If youre still stuck on beating your dead horse and being laughed at there are still some other questions youve been to cowardly to answer. See if you cant get Mr. Jingles to help.
1. If these kids were not killed by staff members how did they die?
2. If you had a child in your care and he died in the same manner as some of these other kids would you likely be charged with anything?
3. Do you find it odd that of all the deaths that occur in the private theraputic sector charges are seldom brought?
4. If someone was hurt or killed in your factory would you deal with in the same manner these places deal with the deaths that occur in their premises?
Post by: TheWho on February 04, 2007, 11:36:43 PM
Being a parent of a child who attended a TBS I think prospective parents would find this information helpful:
The data I am collecting parallels the NCES's and their parameters:
The present year we are working on is July1, 2000 thru June 2001:
Here is what we have to date:
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data:
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS:
There where 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides
Inside a TBS
There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicides. (Data still being collected for TBS?s)[/quote]
Ryan Lewis suicide feb 13, 2001 Aldredge Academy (counted)
Post by: TheWho on February 04, 2007, 11:50:38 PM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
I put up a new sig gif just for you Who. Something to put it all in perspective.
Dam....60/40 against removing it......can I vote more than once? I was hoping you would go with a single photo or something less distractive....
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2007, 12:18:20 AM
NOW: you can sit around and say: All of your daughter's post-program behaviors are because "she matured so quickly while you had her locked away,"---I say you are stupid as an OX, if you believe that.
Your daughter probably didn't speak to you for 2 years because she doesn't like you, resented being locked away in your precious program, and got really, really tired of listening to your shit.
You are tiring and boring---you know.
Could you give all of us a 2 year break here?
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2007, 01:21:03 AM
Even I honestly cannot fathom the level of rage that would inspire.
Post by: TheWho on February 05, 2007, 07:20:25 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
THE WHO, all data put aside: after reading your posts, I would not send my child to a program for one reason ONLY. I would not want my child to come home from a program and behave the way your daughter did POST PROGRAM: run away and not speak to me for 2 years! and not be able to communicate with and get along with her previous friends.
NOW: you can sit around and say: All of your daughter's post-program behaviors are because "she matured so quickly while you had her locked away,"---I say you are stupid as an OX, if you believe that.
Your daughter probably didn't speak to you for 2 years because she doesn't like you, resented being locked away in your precious program, and got really, really tired of listening to your shit.
You are tiring and boring---you know.
Could you give all of us a 2 year break here?
When she first got home she had a difficult time adjusting. She went back to her old friends for a few weeks and found that she had outgrown them (matured) and eventually found a more mature and healthier group to hang out with. She didn?t move away and our relationship has been great.
Some of my feed back to ASR was the transition back home and I heard from other parents that ASR has addressed the issue and transitions are much smoother now.
I think one thing you are missing here is many of the kids which enter ASR are very immature for their age and the maturation process can be accelerated if the child is placed in a mature and safe environment where they can thrive and grow.
Take any of the kids that join, say a group sport at school. Within no time they mature very quickly in ways like having respect for others, themselves, organizing and being responsible for their own equipment, getting to practice on time, healthier friendships etc.
Many of you focus too much on the bumps in the road and not the destination. Is it a tough road, yes, no question about it!! But many of the kids thrive and do so well when they get home.
Post by: TheWho on February 05, 2007, 07:24:24 AM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
I'm just curious what happens when these idiots' kids come on and read this shit.
Even I honestly cannot fathom the level of rage that would inspire.
Lactose, the collection of data isn?t new here. There were many people here on fornits trying to accumulate and get their arms around the number of kids who were hurt in different sectors of the teen help industry, over the years. No one seemed outraged then, why would they? If it isn?t talked about and/or exposed how is anyone going to initiate and eventually effect change in the industry?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 05, 2007, 11:43:55 AM
Quote
Here you go Bob. The parents can review the link (Link to NCES: http://nces.ed.gov/ (http://nces.ed.gov/)) ,as most of them have already, and decide for themselves on the validity of the NCES parameters and the data within them.
What you still somehow (despite the absolute simplicity) fail to grasp is that you are not using the same parameters as the NCES does for all the data. You change your parameters based on convience for your agenga. Look at just this example:
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindica ... le_1.1.asp (http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindicators/crimeindicators2005/Indicators.asp?PubPageNumber=1&ShowTablePage=TablesHTML/table_1.1.asp)
When the NCES looks at the data they break it down to specific areas, you on the other hand want to lump everything together as it fits better for your agenda. Of course for the private theraputic sector you want to split everything down to the last possible hair, anything to exclude as many deaths as possible. You also keep trying to pretend that the NCES has already done this comparrison, they havent.
Youre applying double standards and getting frustrated because no one is buying into it, you're including everything you can for the public sector, excluding everything you can for the private theraputic one.
Let me do some editing of my own for you Cindy. The majority of the parents who come looking for this type of information are doing so because they feel their children are in an unsafe enviroment. It would stand to reason that some of the deaths on the list for the private sector occured in the childrens homes. Parents who are trying to find a safe place for their kids probably arent concerned about the home being dangerous, if it was they wouldnt care, and thus wouldn't be looking for an alternative.
Remove any deaths that occured in the home.
The parameters for the NCES include accidental deaths. Accidents happen everywhere, whether the child is a safe environment or not, whether the child is a troubled teen or not.
Remove any accidental deaths.
The parameters for the NCES also include random acts of violence, a girl attracts the attention of a rapist, he follows her home, rapes her and murders her. A child is walking down the street in front of a bank when a robbery takes place, the robber fires off his weapon as he is leaving and the kid is struck and killed. In neither case were the kids involved in an unsafe environment or were they troubled teens, it was simply happenstance.
Remove any random acts of violence that lead to death.
The parameters for suicide do not differentiate between accidental suicide and intentional suicide, and neither do M.E. reports. Just last month a number of children accidentially killed themselves imitating the Sadamm hanging. Obviously they didnt intend to kill themselves, they werent troubled teens or in an unsafe place, nevertheless it happened.
Remove any accidental suicides.
If you are unwilling or unable to remove those deaths and get a clearer look at the numbers than you have no just cause to get upset with us because we refuse to split hairs regarding the private theraputic sector deaths.
All of the PTS kids are going to be counted Cindy, each and every one, you stomping your feet and crying about it won't do you any good.
Parents have a right to be given all the information availible, not just what you think they need.
The data for the year in question stands as follows:
In the public sector out of 52,000,000 kids 2059 were killed outside of school, roughly translating to:
1 out of every 25,255 kids being killed outside of school.
Of those same 52,000,000 1,890 committed suicide outside of school.
Translating to roughly
1 out of every 27,513 kids committing suicide outside of school.
In school out of 52,000,000 17 kids were killed. Translating to:
1 out of every 3,058,824 kids being killed in school.
Of those same 52,000,000 5 kids committed suicide while in school.
Translating to:
1 out of every 10,400,000 kids killing themselves while in school.
In the Private Theraputic Sector out of 20,000 kids 6 kids were killed by staff members, translating to:
1 out of every 3,334 kids being killed by staff members.
Of those same 20,000 kids 1 committed suicide, translating to:
1 out of every 20,000 kids killing themselves.
Cindy you can accept this or not, it's up to you. I doubt you will since you've already stated on here you are not interested in learning the truth about these places. If you truly have your heart set of parading around your propoganda its your perogative, just understand that no one is buying into it, espically when they can just as easily see the truth I've posted. Also, you need to understand that the more you try and present your garabage as fact the more you like a tired fool and the less credibility you have, and you know how important that is to you.
Post by: TheWho on February 05, 2007, 01:06:47 PM
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindica ... r=1#fig1.1 (http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindicators/crimeindicators2005/Indicators.asp?PubPageNumber=1#fig1.1)
I have reviewed 48 names to date for the July1, 2000 thru June 2001 time frame and have the following results:
Here is how it looks:
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data:
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS:
There where 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides
Inside a TBS
There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicides. (Data set still open)
Ryan Lewis suicide feb 13, 2001 Aldredge Academy (counted)
I have a few more sources for names to review and then I will move on to July1, 2001 thru June 2002. At some point I will tally the years and we can take a look at any trends that may become apparent.
Post by: Troll Control on February 05, 2007, 01:39:26 PM
Quote
The Who wrote:
At some point I will tally the years and we can take a look at any trends that may become apparent.
Which years? The ones you've spent chasing your tail with 'data' and trying to soft-sell programs? :rofl: :D
Post by: TheWho on February 05, 2007, 02:01:37 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
QuoteThe Who wrote:
At some point I will tally the years and we can take a look at any trends that may become apparent.
Which years? The ones you've spent chasing your tail with 'data' and trying to soft-sell programs? :rofl: :D
The years we have been tracking. We finished up the collection periods:
July1, 1999 thru June 2000 and
July1, 2000 thru June 2001
We can continue up to, I believe ,2004/5 which is the last collection for the NCES. Once we get a few years done we can step back a little and see if there have been any trends (up turns or down turns) on the national public level as well and the private TBS sector.
At that point maybe we can move on and take a look at Wilderness programs.... there is no intent to sell anything, just looking at the numbers.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 05, 2007, 03:47:27 PM
Quote
Yes, the NCES breaks it out and they report it in totals also, as I am doing. Here take a look, Here is an Example of one of the many ways they present their data:
Yet you refuse to differentiate between deaths occuring in public school and outside of school as the NCES does. You did originally but quickly changed your focus when you saw how the data showed the odds being incredibly unlikely that a kid would ever die in a public school. At which point you suddenly decided you wanted to talk about the public sector, no longer public schools.
Since I know you'll deny it let me refresh your memory:
Quote
Because we are comparing schools. Wilderness programs typically last only a few weeks.
I think the data is useful and should be tracked, I just dont think it can counted the same as a school.
Your own link proves that the NCES splits up the data, yet you refuse to (at least in the public sector) because it disproves the point your so set on making.
Quote
I have reviewed 48 names to date for the July1, 2000 thru June 2001 time frame and have the following results:
Here is how it looks:
(http://http://jalanjalan.com/ericbeef/ericbeefarc/BullShit.jpg)
Hey that's great Cindy, you keep your numbers if you want, the rest of us are going to stick with facts.
Here's what they happen to look like:
In the public sector out of 52,000,000 kids 2059 were killed outside of school, roughly translating to:
1 out of every 25,255 kids being killed outside of school.
Of those same 52,000,000 1,890 committed suicide outside of school.
Translating to roughly
1 out of every 27,513 kids committing suicide outside of school.
In school out of 52,000,000 17 kids were killed. Translating to:
1 out of every 3,058,824 kids being killed in school.
Of those same 52,000,000 5 kids committed suicide while in school.
Translating to:
1 out of every 10,400,000 kids killing themselves while in school.
In the Private Theraputic Sector out of 20,000 kids 6 kids were killed by staff members, translating to:
1 out of every 3,334 kids being killed by staff members.
Of those same 20,000 kids 1 committed suicide, translating to:
1 out of every 20,000 kids killing themselves.
Accept it or not, it doesnt matter, as I said before we are going to continue to provide parents with all the options, not just the ones you prefer theyd see.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 05, 2007, 04:01:54 PM
Quote
We can continue up to, I believe ,2004/5 which is the last collection for the NCES. Once we get a few years done we can step back a little and see if there have been any trends (up turns or down turns) on the national public level as well and the private TBS sector.
I see. So you've accepted you've lost the point on both these years, moving on then......
Post by: TheWho on February 05, 2007, 04:47:26 PM
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.) and compared to NCES data.
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Outside a TBS:
There were 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides
Inside a TBS
There were 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS:
There were 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides
Inside a TBS
There were 0 Homicides and 1 suicide.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will set up a new worksheet to start July 1, 2001 - Thru June 2002
Post by: RobertBruce on February 05, 2007, 06:33:54 PM
Quote
I have pretty much exhausted all the avenues I know of for collecting data for 1999-thru 2001.
Translation:
You mean youve written everything your boss has given you permission to write.
Quote
The datasets will be left open if anyone comes across a name that fits the parameters (PM me or post the name) and I will add them as they come in,
The parameters of course being whatever works best for your agenda at the moment. These are changable at any time for any reason. Names will be added so long as they don't prove you wrong.
Quote
otherwise I am going to move on to the period July1, 2001 thru June 2002
Why bother? The same result is going to come to bear again, youre just going to be proven wrong....again.
Quote
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.) and compared to NCES data.
Cindy not only believes he and he alone can determine what deaths count and what don't, but he can dictate the terms of the conversation. Maybe you do need to be in one of these places Cindy. Until you get there remember all the kids count, the rest of us are presenting the entire private theraputic sector. Your permission is not required.
Quote
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Outside a TBS:
There were 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides
Inside a TBS
There were 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.
Okay there's your make believe piece, and then here's what really happened that year:
Out of 52,000,000 public school kids 16 were killed in school
Translating to 1 out of every 3,250,000 kids being killed.
Out of those 52,000,000 6 committed suicide while in school.
Translating to 1 out of 8,666,667 kids killing themselves.
Of those same 52,000,000 kids 2140 were killed outside of school.
Translating to 1 out of every 24,300 kids being killed.
Of those same 52,000,000 public school kids 1928 kids committed suicide outside of school.
Translating to roughly 1 out of every 27,000 kids committing suicide.
Out of 20,000 kids in the private theraputic sector so far we have 7 who were killed by staff members.
Translating to 1 out of every 2,857 kids being murdered by staff.
Of those same 20,000 kids 2 committed suicide.
Translating to 1 out of every 10,000 committing suicide.
This is of course for only one year June of 1999-July 2000
Quote
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS:
There were 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides
Inside a TBS
There were 0 Homicides and 1 suicide.
And here's the reality for that year as well:
In the public sector out of 52,000,000 kids 2059 were killed outside of school, roughly translating to:
1 out of every 25,255 kids being killed outside of school.
Of those same 52,000,000 1,890 committed suicide outside of school.
Translating to roughly
1 out of every 27,513 kids committing suicide outside of school.
In school out of 52,000,000 17 kids were killed. Translating to:
1 out of every 3,058,824 kids being killed in school.
Of those same 52,000,000 5 kids committed suicide while in school.
Translating to:
1 out of every 10,400,000 kids killing themselves while in school.
In the Private Theraputic Sector out of 20,000 kids 6 kids were killed by staff members, translating to:
1 out of every 3,334 kids being killed by staff members.
Of those same 20,000 kids 1 committed suicide, translating to:
1 out of every 20,000 kids killing themselves.
I'll tell you what Cindy, since you're so dead set on proving your point that youre unwilling to look at the facts or even approach this subject objectively why bog the rest of us down with your babbelings?
I mean, since no one gives any creedence to your nonsense why don't you go away, colate and compile all the numbers you want for all the years you can and then when you're done come back and here and present them.
Afterwards of course I'll respond with the actual numbers shoot your stupid argument down and we can let the parents decide for themselves who is right and who is wrong.
Sound good?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 05, 2007, 07:03:54 PM
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 05, 2007, 07:51:44 PM
Never mind the therapy itself is intrinsically wrong, we've now demonstrated the risk of death and suicide is HIGHER in a program so even the warehouse angle won't work... but he keeps on going.
WOW.
Post by: TheWho on February 05, 2007, 07:57:31 PM
Don?t take this as criticism because the data you are collecting has merit and can be used in decision making, in some capacity, in the future and I would like to tap your resources at that time, but presently we plan to stay the course.
We have the data for our next time frame which is July1, 2001 thru June 2002 from the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) and here is how we stand today:
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data to present
:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Outside a TBS: -----There were 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides
Inside a TBS --------There were 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There were 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides
Inside a TBS --------There were 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There were 2,053 Homicides and 1,777 suicides
Inside a TBS --------There were 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. (No data accumulated as of today)
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 05, 2007, 07:59:20 PM
Post by: Charly on February 05, 2007, 08:27:49 PM
Suicides climbed 18 percent from 2003 to 2004 for Americans under age 20, from 1,737 to 1,985 deaths. Most suicides occurred in older teens, according to the data
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 05, 2007, 08:29:44 PM
Post by: psy on February 05, 2007, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I have pretty much exhausted all the avenues I know of for collecting data for 1999-thru 2001. The datasets will be left open if anyone comes across a name that fits the parameters (PM me or post the name) and I will add them as they come in, otherwise I am going to move on to the period July1, 2001 thru June 2002
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.) and compared to NCES data.
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Outside a TBS:
There were 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides
Inside a TBS
There were 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS:
There were 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides
Inside a TBS
There were 0 Homicides and 1 suicide.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will set up a new worksheet to start July 1, 2001 - Thru June 2002
According to the US Census data This is the population data for kids: (let's argue only 10-20 year olds end up in TBS schools.
10 to 14 years 20,528,072 7.3
15 to 19 years 20,219,890 7.2
---------------------------------------
40,747,962
So let's get the suicide rate from that..
40,747,962 / 1890
=
1 in every 21559.768 kids
Us census suicide data:
http://http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0779940.html
My math gets about 1 in 23000 for that age group in 2000.
(and that's outside of school)
Fairly good so far.
Now provide some hard data regarding suicides in TBSs... You aren't going to get hard data... so what is the fucking point... (both of you) I know there are more suicides in program because.... guess what. I witnessed many attempts (3 personally in a 6 month period).. and there was one success after i left. Nevermind the kids weren't suicidal before they got there...
Statistics mean shit without solid methods of collection.. and there are none in this industry...
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 05, 2007, 08:34:36 PM
Why bother, psy?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 05, 2007, 09:05:23 PM
Quote
I am sorry all this upsets you so much, Bob
It doesn't Cindy, you seem to forget I'm the one with the accurate information.
Quote
The parameters are clear and anyone is free to add any data that fit the parameters
Yeah, your parameters. I'm not sure where you got the notion that you could dictate things to people here, you need to accept that it doesnt work that way.
Quote
I am not sure how much easier or clearer I can make it.
I get what youre trying to do Cindy, I just don't care. I'm not interested in supporting your agenda therefore I'm not going along with your misinformation.
Quote
I believe one of the struggles you are having with all of this is the fact that I am not including the entire therapeutic industry
Well its not really a struggle since I can do it just fine on my own. As I mentioned to you before all I'm doing is frustrating your attempts to con parents. Every time you post a lie I can be right there behind you to post the truth.
Quote
After a long debate it was decided that parents would have greater latitude if they were granted the freedom to choose the category they were interested in.
Wait wait wait......tell me when did this "long debate" take place, and with whom? Further at when point were you deemed an expert that you can decide what is best for parents? Cindy you arent even close to be able to make such a call, your own daughter by your own addmission hates you. The thing I can't decide is if youre just crazy and really believe your own selfimportance or if youre just an asshole. Probably a little of both.
Quote
So we embarked on a quest to compare TBS?s to the Public sector to see what turned up
Who is "we"? You mean you and you alone. Don't forget you originally wanted to compare TBS's to public school's. I provided you with your own quote as a means of proving that you changed your criteria because you were afraid of being proven wrong, ( this despite the fact that youre proven wrong almost daily, youre just too stupid to recognize it.) the rest of us have already seen what "turned up" (again) youre just too stupid to see it, or maybe just too brainwashed.
Quote
After we bring this up to date we can start on ?Wilderness programs?
Ummmmm we're already there Cindy, when you catch up with the rest of the class you let me know.
Quote
We personally don?t see any value in lumping in mental hospitals, group homes, state run boot camps etc.
Who is "we"? Maybe you are crazy Cindy. Maybe youre schizo. It's looking that way more and more.
Quote
if a parent is presently and/or actively researching TBS?s or wilderness programs. They should be able to access the information pertinent to the specific area they are interested in
That's right idiot they should be able to, what you feel however is that they should be able to access the information that you deem pertinent. I however believe they should be given all the information and then be allowed to decide for themselves what they are interested in and what they are not interested in.
Quote
I am not saying an overall comparison to the Therapeutic community has no merit, because I think it does.
Oh well I appreciate your endorsement but its not nessecary, I've already proven the point despite your best efforts.
Quote
But from a parents perspective it doesn?t help their immediate needs if they are contemplating a TBS or Wilderness type program.
Unless of course they want all the information availible (most people do when making an uninformed choice) or if they are looking for information regarding group homes, mental hospitals, or RTC's (your definition anyway), in both scenarios your information is incomplete and therefore useless. Terms I'm sure many use to describe you.
Quote
Don?t take this as criticism because the data you are collecting has merit and can be used in decision making, in some capacity, in the future and I would like to tap your resources at that time, but presently we plan to stay the course.
There's that "we" again. I assume this time you are infering me as well. Sorry Cindy I'm not interested in "your" course. Youre flying blind and you expect others to climb on board. I'll stick with the entire picture and all the truth, not just your selected viewing.
Post by: TheWho on February 05, 2007, 09:10:27 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""TheWho""I have pretty much exhausted all the avenues I know of for collecting data for 1999-thru 2001. The datasets will be left open if anyone comes across a name that fits the parameters (PM me or post the name) and I will add them as they come in, otherwise I am going to move on to the period July1, 2001 thru June 2002
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.) and compared to NCES data.
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Outside a TBS:
There were 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides
Inside a TBS
There were 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS:
There were 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides
Inside a TBS
There were 0 Homicides and 1 suicide.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will set up a new worksheet to start July 1, 2001 - Thru June 2002
According to the US Census data This is the population data for kids: (let's argue only 10-20 year olds end up in TBS schools.
10 to 14 years 20,528,072 7.3
15 to 19 years 20,219,890 7.2
---------------------------------------
40,747,962
So let's get the suicide rate from that..
40,747,962 / 1890
=
1 in every 21559.768 kids
Us census suicide data:
http://http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0779940.html
My math gets about 1 in 23000 for that age group in 2000.
(and that's outside of school)
Fairly good so far.
Now provide some hard data regarding suicides in TBSs... You aren't going to get hard data... so what is the fucking point... (both of you) I know there are more suicides in program because.... guess what. I witnessed many attempts (3 personally in a 6 month period).. and there was one success after i left. Nevermind the kids weren't suicidal before they got there...
Statistics mean shit without solid methods of collection.. and there are none in this industry...
Point well taken, psy. It will be difficult, at best, to analyze the data once we collect it. First of all we need to come up with a common denominator/ hard numbers of how many kids are in TBS?s each year (10,000, 20,000, 30,000), which like you said, is hard to come by or just not available. Secondly, many kids attending TBS?s are ?At risk? kids so one may expect to see a higher suicide rate in TBS?s than as compared to a representative cross section of the public sector.
This is one reason we chose Homicides and suicides, because they are made public record and can be easier to collect. Other (lesser) abuses sometimes go unreported (in the public as well as private sector) and can be deemed unreliable in the data collection phase. I am not sure , at this point how collecting occurrences of these types of abuse can be approached.
Post by: TheWho on February 05, 2007, 09:23:56 PM
Quote from: ""Charly""
AP-"CHICAGO - New government figures show a surprising increase in youth suicides after a decade of decline, and some mental health experts think a drop in use of antidepressant drugs may be to blame.
Suicides climbed 18 percent from 2003 to 2004 for Americans under age 20, from 1,737 to 1,985 deaths. Most suicides occurred in older teens, according to the data
Thanks charly -- That is an interesting observation about the antidepressants. I was in a conversation recently and had heard there is pressure being put on the doctors (by who else, the insurance companies) to reduce the free flow of medications, especially in the mental health field.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 05, 2007, 09:26:44 PM
Quote
Wait wait wait......tell me when did this "long debate" take place, and with whom? Further at when point were you deemed an expert that you can decide what is best for parents? Cindy you arent even close to be able to make such a call, your own daughter by your own addmission hates you. The thing I can't decide is if youre just crazy and really believe your own selfimportance or if youre just an asshole. Probably a little of both.
Answer this question psychward.
Post by: teachback on February 05, 2007, 09:33:03 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteWait wait wait......tell me when did this "long debate" take place, and with whom? Further at when point were you deemed an expert that you can decide what is best for parents? Cindy you arent even close to be able to make such a call, your own daughter by your own addmission hates you. The thing I can't decide is if youre just crazy and really believe your own selfimportance or if youre just an asshole. Probably a little of both.
Answer this question psychward.
:rofl: :rofl: :nworthy: ::bwahaha2:: ::bwahaha:: ::bigsmilebounce::
Post by: TheWho on February 05, 2007, 09:42:20 PM
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data to present
:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,053 Homicides and 1,777 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. (Dataset open and active)*
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
* - Data found here on fornits, internet new articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: RobertBruce on February 05, 2007, 10:01:54 PM
Post by: FLCLcowdude on February 05, 2007, 10:05:27 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2007, 10:06:48 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Someone call his daughter, he's seriously gone off the deep end. Oh shit she hates him and wouldnt care.
Or, both of you could just stop. That would work.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 05, 2007, 10:10:35 PM
I told him to stop going on in circles about it and just compile his useless nonsense he calls data and then present it all at once, and he doesnt want to do it.
Honestly though at this point I think he's so far gone he doesnt even know the rest of us are here.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 05, 2007, 10:18:33 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 05, 2007, 10:25:12 PM
Post by: teachback on February 05, 2007, 11:00:07 PM
What was the captain's name again?
RB, you are that captain, no offense.
TheWho, of course, would be the proverbial whale that RB just can't seem to stop trying to apprehend and kill...
(I've never read the book, just what others have said about it.)
Post by: RobertBruce on February 05, 2007, 11:19:01 PM
Post by: teachback on February 05, 2007, 11:23:57 PM
Just a little longer...I KNOW he's going to break soon...lol.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 05, 2007, 11:26:06 PM
Post by: teachback on February 05, 2007, 11:29:38 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
He is on the ropes, look at him, not only does he believe his own bullshit, and not only does he believe others will believe it, but whatsmore he thinks he's got a whole army on his side. He's nuts, how can you not find it hysterical?
I appreciate the humor in that, but as long as he continues to believe these things, you're fucked...lol.
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2007, 11:36:39 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 05, 2007, 11:37:20 PM
No my goal is to keep frustrating him indefinitly.
Post by: FLCLcowdude on February 05, 2007, 11:54:41 PM
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 12:05:55 AM
Quote from: ""FLCLcowdude""
So, who names their son cindy? Honestly!
maybe the doctor couldn't tell?
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2007, 12:08:32 AM
Post by: teachback on February 06, 2007, 12:38:18 AM
Post by: TheWho on February 06, 2007, 09:40:10 AM
??.Suicide is the third leading cause of death for 15 to 24 year olds, and the sixth leading cause of death for 5 to 14 year olds. The pressure on juniors and seniors is intense. They feel that they must succeed academically, socially and athletically. They feel that they absolutely have to get into the 'right' college. They push themselves to the limit. All you have to do is add other factors like sexuality and family issues such as divorce or finances and you have a recipe for disaster. 60 per cent of high school students recently surveyed indicated that they had thought about suicide.
Are Private Schools Immune?
Absolutely not. All the same factors come into play. And more. Children in boarding school can really feel cut off from their basic support group which is family and friends back home. ???
I think one thing that jumps out of this article is the importance that a parent have a child tested and screen by professionals before placing a child outside the home. Placing a child that is depressed (clinically depressed) or has an underlying depressive illness like anxiety disorder, ADD or Bipolar disorder, a TBS (or any placement outside the home) may not be the best place for him or her. Although, I think we could all agree each child?s biological make up is different which makes it difficult to list definitive warning signs for suicide that would apply to every child, removing a child from his or her environment only tends to increase the likelihood of suicide if the child is already suffering in this area. Based on what I have read on the subject, schools should not be accepting children who are being removed from their environment without being properly screened for depression and underlying illnesses and if a specific school is doing this than the parent should view this as a ?Red Flag?
Post by: hanzomon4 on February 06, 2007, 09:52:39 AM
This is perhaps what's most disturbing about the industry, the fact that many programs claim to treat stuff they can't(or shouldn't) like ADD......
Post by: TheWho on February 06, 2007, 10:09:21 AM
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
wHO? Most schools list depression as something they treat, even justaMom said she sent her son to ASR for depression.
This is perhaps what's most disturbing about the industry, the fact that many programs claim to treat stuff they can't(or shouldn't) like ADD......
If a child had some indications of depression that may be another issue, along with behavior/emotional issues, some schools may be able to help with that (I am not a professional in the this area), but to take a clinically depressed child I can see as a mistake.
Based on the articles I have been reading, if the child was clinically depressed and showed signs of suicidal tendencies the therapist should/would not have recommended a TBS. The schools should be held liable if they take a child against medical advice or the therapist liable if they recommend one and the child takes his/her own life while being placed outside the home.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 06, 2007, 10:26:07 AM
Quote
I am not a professional in the this area
Cindy that's the only honest thing you've ever said on here. Now if you could just stop pretending to be a professional you'd be all set.
Still waiting on you to answer the question regarding who you had your "long debate" with.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 06, 2007, 10:27:04 AM
Quote
Wait wait wait......tell me when did this "long debate" take place, and with whom? Further at when point were you deemed an expert that you can decide what is best for parents? Cindy you arent even close to be able to make such a call, your own daughter by your own addmission hates you. The thing I can't decide is if youre just crazy and really believe your own selfimportance or if youre just an asshole. Probably a little of both.
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 10:27:27 AM
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
wHO? Most schools list depression as something they treat, even justaMom said she sent her son to ASR for depression.
This is perhaps what's most disturbing about the industry, the fact that many programs claim to treat stuff they can't(or shouldn't) like ADD......
Hey. My parents sent me to program because I'm bisexual... School didn't give a shit. A kid that was sent to the same school for depression and suicidal tendencies in 2002... guess what. killed himself in program. School didn't give a shit whether he was suicidal or not. A girl I knew slit her wrists, so did a guy there who was there for ADHD. Nope. he was never suicidal before that. In 2002, a girl (after she told the staff she was contemplating suicide... and was dismissed as "manipulative") slit her wrists in the bathtub, passed out, and almost died... staff told her she was using it to manipulate (after she attempted suicide they told her this). She got confronted by staff in group about it...
Point is... program doesn't give a shit what the kids are there for... If the kid dies... oh well, they'll hold a special (read "farce") group for the family...
Kids were there for asbergers, add, anxiety, depression.... everything and everything... none of em got helped (though, given enough time... some of em believe they were helped)
Post by: RobertBruce on February 06, 2007, 10:38:12 AM
Post by: TheWho on February 06, 2007, 10:46:05 AM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""wHO? Most schools list depression as something they treat, even justaMom said she sent her son to ASR for depression.
This is perhaps what's most disturbing about the industry, the fact that many programs claim to treat stuff they can't(or shouldn't) like ADD......
Hey. My parents sent me to program because I'm bisexual... School didn't give a shit. A kid that was sent to the same school for depression and suicidal tendencies in 2002... guess what. killed himself in program. School didn't give a shit whether he was suicidal or not. A girl I knew slit her wrists, so did a guy there who was there for ADHD. Nope. he was never suicidal before that. In 2002, a girl (after she told the staff she was contemplating suicide... and was dismissed as "manipulative") slit her wrists in the bathtub, passed out, and almost died... staff told her she was using it to manipulate (after she attempted suicide they told her this). She got confronted by staff in group about it...
Point is... program doesn't give a shit what the kids are there for... If the kid dies... oh well, they'll hold a special (read "farce") group for the family...
Kids were there for asbergers, add, anxiety, depression.... everything and everything... none of em got helped (though, given enough time... some of em believe they were helped)
Not good, psy, That?s why I believe there should be proper screening done by the child?s therapist or an independent child psychologist before being able to be placed. The school sounded irresponsible.
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 10:53:54 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""psy""Quote from: ""hanzomon4""wHO? Most schools list depression as something they treat, even justaMom said she sent her son to ASR for depression.
This is perhaps what's most disturbing about the industry, the fact that many programs claim to treat stuff they can't(or shouldn't) like ADD......
Hey. My parents sent me to program because I'm bisexual... School didn't give a shit. A kid that was sent to the same school for depression and suicidal tendencies in 2002... guess what. killed himself in program. School didn't give a shit whether he was suicidal or not. A girl I knew slit her wrists, so did a guy there who was there for ADHD. Nope. he was never suicidal before that. In 2002, a girl (after she told the staff she was contemplating suicide... and was dismissed as "manipulative") slit her wrists in the bathtub, passed out, and almost died... staff told her she was using it to manipulate (after she attempted suicide they told her this). She got confronted by staff in group about it...
Point is... program doesn't give a shit what the kids are there for... If the kid dies... oh well, they'll hold a special (read "farce") group for the family...
Kids were there for asbergers, add, anxiety, depression.... everything and everything... none of em got helped (though, given enough time... some of em believe they were helped)
Not good, psy, That?s why I believe there should be proper screening done by the child?s therapist or an independent child psychologist before being able to be placed. The school sounded irresponsible.
Well until it's required it's not going to happen.
Also... how would you require a psychologist's evaluation for a facility that is "techincally" not a mental health facility (ie. and "Emotional Growth" boarding school) ?
And yet... since they advertise on NATSAP as a "program", and not a school, people still get referred to them for psychological issues.
Parents (like mine did), assume that the staff would have to be qualified in order to be counselors etc... Sure that's required for licenced treatment centres, but not for schools.
Why don't so many of these schools just advertise as what they are, programs? Answer that question.
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 10:57:39 AM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Sounds no different then HLA. I remember a kid there slitting his wrist while on restriction, as a means of helping him deal with it they sent him on an intervention. Yeah that'll help.
Many attempts at Bmark were just for a vacation... A lockdown mental health facility with padded walls was less stressful than day to day life in program. The kid who killed himself, attempted suicide, was sent to the lockdown, came back, was bitched out by staff, and killed himself. In that order. It should be noted that Benchmark disputes that he was not "bitched out by staff"... multiple eye witnesses differ ...
Post by: RobertBruce on February 06, 2007, 10:58:10 AM
Post by: TheWho on February 06, 2007, 11:06:35 AM
Quote
Why don't so many of these schools just advertise as what they are, programs? Answer that question.
Not sure?.. I don?t think parents know what a program is and the beds might be empty if they wrote that on their shingle, I don?t think it says enough. If you say Therapeutic boarding school and describe the structure and meet the staff and psychologists, talk to other parents and it comes recommended by your child?s therapist (who should be advocating only for the child).... it seems like a safer step to take.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 06, 2007, 11:13:59 AM
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 11:22:07 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteWhy don't so many of these schools just advertise as what they are, programs? Answer that question.
Not sure?.. I don?t think parents know what a program is and the beds might be empty if they wrote that on their shingle, I don?t think it says enough. If you say Therapeutic boarding school and describe the structure and meet the staff and psychologists, talk to other parents and it comes recommended by your child?s therapist (who should be advocating only for the child).... it seems like a safer step to take.
Sorry. "Therapeutic" doesn't solve the problem in most states. Shampoo can be "therapeutic". If parents are going to send their kids to a program, they should know damn well that it is a program. If they claim to be both a program and a school, they can advertise as both to different target audiences. If you say to a businessman "you're technically allowed to"... they will. Have you ever seen a loophole that hasn't been exploited?
Oh please. Talk to a shrink? My own shrink recommended Alldredge academy to a family. He looked at the shiny brochure with the stock photos and said "looks great!"... Shrinks are human too, and can make the same stupid assumptions parents do. Unfortunately... the law tends to favor the business (the prevailing philosophy being "buyer beware"). Becuase of the above mentioned technicalities... "emotional growth" boarding schools are legally covered (at least criminally...). They can say "oh no.. we don't provide 'therapy' and we don't claim to.. we provide "emotional growth"...".
Why don't they advertise as "programs".. SIMPLE! Because that would require they submit to state regulation which would make the less "savory" aspects of program unfeasible (the same aspects that make such schools so profitable).
For example: Monitored communication would have to go. Counselors would have to be properly trained and licensed. Any "group therapy" would have to be run by actual "therapists" (the ones with PHDs... not GEDs)... LGAT techniques would go out the window.
Why don't they do this? well take the therapists for example... These facilities often cost more per year than ivy league schools such as Harvard etc... By a wide margin. Is it cheaper to hire High school graduates, or PHDs? Colleges can afford qualified staff and are cheaper.. Why can't programs? Don't give me that "too expensive" crap i hear all the time. These businesses do what they are required to do by law and no more. Nothing short of (and probably not even) regulation is going to fix that.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 06, 2007, 11:29:17 AM
Quote
Why don't they advertise as "programs".. SIMPLE! Because that would require they submit to state regulation which would make the less "savory" aspects of program unfeasible (the same aspects that make such schools so profitable).
Exactly! The only thing that ever matters at these places is the bottom line.
Post by: Charly on February 06, 2007, 11:41:23 AM
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 11:42:18 AM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteWhy don't they advertise as "programs".. SIMPLE! Because that would require they submit to state regulation which would make the less "savory" aspects of program unfeasible (the same aspects that make such schools so profitable).
Exactly! The only thing that ever matters at these places is the bottom line.
I am a very cynical person. I spent my early teenage years in Romania... Money corrupts. Period. I've seen ambulances leave people to die becuase they couldn't pay (and the care is supposed to be free... that's a joke). Street kids? 200,000 (no that is not a typo) of them living in the sewers and drainage canals. They often freeze to death in the winter. How did they get there? Parents abandoned them... Parents are too cheap/too lazy/too drunk to care. At the same time you see Mercedes benzes all over the place. How do people treat the streat kids? By and large like shit.. worse than shit. The police beat the kids for fun... in public... and people cheer. Why? Because those little fuckers are a nuisance when you're at a stop-light and they "clean" your windshield.
I've seen incidences of corruption and depravity you wouldn't believe. Who: Don't be so arrogant as to think that the US is above this. People are the same the world over. We just don't do such things as openly... If you don't regulate... and enforce the regulations... things will turn to shit as people will exploit the system. This goes back to the loophole... Ever seen one that hasn't been exploited? Of course not.. becuase as soon as one is pointed out, somebody will take advantage of it. Who succeeds in an amoral world where the bottom line defines success? The ruthless.
whoops... time to go to French class.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 06, 2007, 11:51:34 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2007, 11:55:05 AM
Quote from: ""Charly""
Colleges/universities have huge endowments.
So do i.
Post by: TheWho on February 06, 2007, 12:01:32 PM
Companies that avoid regulation don?t necessarily do so because they would have to disband using abusive tactics but because regulation is a pain in the ass and they don?t feel it adds value, they would have to give up control of their own process which they intimately believe works very well.
From a business perspective if I was going to have to replace my ?GED?s? with ?PhD?s? I would ask for a year to comply and then find another business to get into because it may be too expensive, TBS?s are very expensive as it is, maybe because they are pocketing a ton or maybe because of their small size. I really don?t know their cost structures.
From a parents perspective, I would like to see regulation, fully accredited with all group sessions run by Phd?s and a phone in each childs room, but I saw what help was available, what the industry standard was and built further confidence that I was making the right decision because our local therapist thought it was a good match.
I don?t know what the answer is, but I know the schools wont sign up for regulation until the parents require it or the states do. There are not enough parents in any one particular state that would care or even know enough to care so the state would have to step up and hold their feet to the fire.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 06, 2007, 12:53:17 PM
Quote
Deborah, no one wants others to come in and audit their systems or try to tell them what to do. I don?t know of any families that call DSS to come visit them on a monthly basis to check things out or Corporations inviting OSHA in to visit. It?s a pain in the butt, they need to schedule people to escort them around, file paperwork, take them out to lunch and with DSS it is time you could be spending with your family, take time off work etc.. Most feel there is no value added. Everyone feels, probable yourself included, they are dong the best job possible and don?t value oversight.
Whatsmore you once again pull out your faulty drivers license analogy. Making drivers becomes licensed makes the roads safer, being a good driver by a persons own standards means nothing. Same thing applies to the private theraputic sector. They think they can regulate themselves but the numbers say otherwise.
Post by: TheWho on February 06, 2007, 01:55:47 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""QuoteWhy don't they advertise as "programs".. SIMPLE! Because that would require they submit to state regulation which would make the less "savory" aspects of program unfeasible (the same aspects that make such schools so profitable).
Exactly! The only thing that ever matters at these places is the bottom line.
I am a very cynical person. I spent my early teenage years in Romania... Money corrupts. Period. I've seen ambulances leave people to die becuase they couldn't pay (and the care is supposed to be free... that's a joke). Street kids? 200,000 (no that is not a typo) of them living in the sewers and drainage canals. They often freeze to death in the winter. How did they get there? Parents abandoned them... Parents are too cheap/too lazy/too drunk to care. At the same time you see Mercedes benzes all over the place. How do people treat the streat kids? By and large like shit.. worse than shit. The police beat the kids for fun... in public... and people cheer. Why? Because those little fuckers are a nuisance when you're at a stop-light and they "clean" your windshield.
I've seen incidences of corruption and depravity you wouldn't believe. Who: Don't be so arrogant as to think that the US is above this. People are the same the world over. We just don't do such things as openly... If you don't regulate... and enforce the regulations... things will turn to shit as people will exploit the system. This goes back to the loophole... Ever seen one that hasn't been exploited? Of course not.. becuase as soon as one is pointed out, somebody will take advantage of it. Who succeeds in an amoral world where the bottom line defines success? The ruthless.
whoops... time to go to French class.
No way, psy, I am a little familiar with that area too, I have family from Chrisinau Maldova and a family friend who was born in Romania and still travels there to see his family. We helped Romania expose their treatment of kids in the state run baby houses, they allowed the cameras back in after a few years to show us what a great job they did and how they are educating and assisting the parents financially to keep these kids in a family environment only to find out they just moved the baby houses to a different part of the country and changed their names under the guises of adoption homes and the abuse is still continuing, they suck and they should all be shot. I know it won?t stop in my lifetime. What you say is exactly right about the kids there and that could happen openly here if we allowed it. But there will always be loop holes and we need to keep exposing them and plugging them and businesses will never ever volunteer to be regulated, whether it is your local dry cleaner with the solvents he uses or a TBS. The state/people need to enforce regulation where they feel it is necessary and impose harsh penalties.
I have experienced my share of corruption in that area of the world. One of my experiences was when I boarded an old double prop Russian plane bound for Almaty. The plane had racks above the seats like you would see on a greyhound bus (you were probably on one of these), so every time we hit turbulence stuff would just fall down into the isle or on top of you. I placed my carry on bag which contained my laptop, some cash and sealed paperwork bound for the US Embassy in Almaty up front in a secure area so it wouldn?t fall. When we arrived I was told to leave my bag and wait at the gate. Even though it is a big city the airport was small and you just get off the plane and walk to an outdoor waiting area, so they didn?t want you to have to carry all your stuff. Anyway to make a long story short, My bag never showed and I watched everyone going by, I had no translator and I knew my bag was on the plane. So I walked back and we all stood there, I finally walked back on the plane and couldn?t find it. So after an hour of refusing to move away from the plane a police person showed up, he spoke a little English, I told him about the bag and paperwork bound for the US Embassy and he started screaming at the pilot walked on and came out with my bag and asked me to go thru it (it was in the pilots cabin or cockpit). When my translator showed up she told me it was typical all they wanted was a reward for finding it, if you had given them $50 you could have had it right away, they weren?t thieves and didn?t want to steal your bag or anything, just regular people. People over there have lived with corruption for so long it just becomes a part of life and is accepted on a daily bases.
Post by: Deborah on February 06, 2007, 02:05:02 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Companies that avoid regulation don?t necessarily do so because they would have to disband using abusive tactics but because regulation is a pain in the ass and they don?t feel it adds value, they would have to give up control of their own process which they intimately believe works very well.
Examples of what "they'd have to give up" that's so 'therapeutic' and works so well? Sorry, but if you're in the mental health field, regulation comes with the territory.
Post by: Deborah on February 06, 2007, 02:37:00 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
But there will always be loop holes and we need to keep exposing them and plugging them and businesses will never ever volunteer to be regulated, whether it is your local dry cleaner with the solvents he uses or a TBS. The state/people need to enforce regulation where they feel it is necessary and impose harsh penalties.
Round and round we go. As has been stated umpteen times here.... A significant issue in this debate is that program lie about the services provided. They claim to be boarding schools rather than therapeutic facilities. HLA and ASR fit into this group. Haven't checked Carlbrook. Also in this group are programs such as Woodside Trails Wilderness. Shut down by the state, and like a good NATSAP member, reopened as a private boarding school,Eagle Pines Academy, exempt from regulation. Did the state bother to drop by and inquire about 'services provided'. Naw, yet they knew the same person owned it and was conducting business as usual.
The system will never fully protect kids. And parents sh0uld know this. One must do due diligence, and hopefully keep their kid home, relying on local services. Regulations will help, but will never be adequate insurance.
Post by: TheWho on February 06, 2007, 02:54:21 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Companies that avoid regulation don?t necessarily do so because they would have to disband using abusive tactics but because regulation is a pain in the ass and they don?t feel it adds value, they would have to give up control of their own process which they intimately believe works very well.
Examples of what "they'd have to give up" that's so 'therapeutic' and works so well? Sorry, but if you're in the mental health field, regulation comes with the territory.
Noting specific, just control. If it was my business, I wouldn?t want to just hand over any control to anyone else if I didn?t have to. It just makes it harder to run the business. I think Bob, found one of my past thoughts:
?no one wants others to come in and audit their systems or try to tell them what to do. I don?t know of any families that call DSS to come visit them on a monthly basis to check things out or Corporations inviting OSHA in to visit. It?s a pain in the butt, they need to schedule people to escort them around, file paperwork, take them out to lunch and with DSS it is time you could be spending with your family, take time off work etc.. Most feel there is no value added. Everyone feels, probable yourself included, they are dong the best job possible and don?t value oversight.?
Would you want someone coming in and asking you to shut down your lap top and have them go thru it for content for about an hour? You have nothing to hide, but it would be a pain in the butt and added cost, you have these people walking around your house, wanting to use the bathroom etc.
If it was a law I am sure you would conform, but I don?t think you would be calling them up and asking to be monitored if it didn?t add value to your business.
Post by: Deborah on February 06, 2007, 03:15:23 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""TheWho""Companies that avoid regulation don?t necessarily do so because they would have to disband using abusive tactics but because regulation is a pain in the ass and they don?t feel it adds value, they would have to give up control of their own process which they intimately believe works very well.
Examples of what "they'd have to give up" that's so 'therapeutic' and works so well? Sorry, but if you're in the mental health field, regulation comes with the territory.
Noting specific, just control. If it was my business, I wouldn?t want to just hand over any control to anyone else if I didn?t have to. It just makes it harder to run the business.
Would you want someone coming in and asking you to shut down your lap top and have them go thru it for content for about an hour? You have nothing to hide, but it would be a pain in the butt and added cost, you have these people walking around your house, wanting to use the bathroom etc.
If it was a law I am sure you would conform, but I don?t think you would be calling them up and asking to be monitored if it didn?t add value to your business.
That's right, just breeze past the fraud and deception.
It IS law in every state that has regulations. If you warehouse kids 24/7 and particularly if you offer therapy, you must be licensed. And it's incumbent on the program to report as such.
Having the public know the truth, that you're operating fraudulently without a license, couldn't possibly "add value".
Most parents assume residential programs offering 'therapy' are properly licensed. Some are too desperate to care, other's are outraged when they discover the truth.
Post by: TheWho on February 06, 2007, 03:29:18 PM
So every boarding school needs this license/regulation? Or is it the therapy part that drives this need?
I think most parents assume the state is doing their job and the places are licensed. If they were told the place was unlicensed I believe most would want to understand why, like myself.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 06, 2007, 04:21:38 PM
Nothing more.
I'm curious as to why youre asking about this now, you didnt care when you locked your daughter up.
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 05:08:44 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Regulation needs to be forced in order to work and it needs teeth. If a kid has the option of getting a drivers license or not he probably wouldn?t get one if there were no consequences. You could sit the kid down and say ?If you take the test you will have a certificate that shows you are a good driver?. He may respond ?I know I am a good drive what good is a license to me?.
Companies that avoid regulation don?t necessarily do so because they would have to disband using abusive tactics but because regulation is a pain in the ass and they don?t feel it adds value, they would have to give up control of their own process which they intimately believe works very well.
Whoo. Belief! Now there's some hard evidence! My grandmother intimately believes if you have a dream about dying, somebody in your family will die. There's even some evidence to support it (here sister last year)
Now why would regulation make them abandon some practices? Hmm?
Quote
From a business perspective if I was going to have to replace my ?GED?s? with ?PhD?s? I would ask for a year to comply and then find another business to get into because it may be too expensive,
No. You would simply sell the place and move to another state.... which is what everybody else has been doing. Montana seems to be the new hotspot for programs now that Utah is starting to get a grip...
Quote
TBS?s are very expensive as it is, maybe because they are pocketing a ton or maybe because of their small size. I really don?t know their cost structures.
They're pocketing a ton. Yes i know this for a fact in my case but cannot say how (plead the fifth on this one)... PM me if you really want to know exactly how profitable one school with (officially) 50 kids is.
Quote
From a parents perspective, I would like to see regulation, fully accredited with all group sessions run by Phd?s and a phone in each childs room,
Hmm. naw... the phones would be too expensive. Unfeasable from a business standpoint...
Quote
but I saw what help was available, what the industry standard was and built further confidence that I was making the right decision because our local therapist thought it was a good match.
Local therapists generally know very little about this industry in detail... I mention where my shrink sent a kid? I hit the roof when he told me where the kid went.
Quote
I don?t know what the answer is, but I know the schools wont sign up for regulation until the parents require it or the states do. There are not enough parents in any one particular state that would care or even know enough to care so the state would have to step up and hold their feet to the fire.
Yup. It does take a while for the locals to catch on... If they want to, considering many "schools" bring a lot of business to rural areas. Go watch the PBS Montana Documentary...
And when they do figure it out... well You can cross Utah off the list... there are still 49 states to set up shop in... and a lot of third world countries.
Post by: hanzomon4 on February 06, 2007, 05:16:42 PM
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 05:19:10 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""psy""Quote from: ""RobertBruce""QuoteWhy don't they advertise as "programs".. SIMPLE! Because that would require they submit to state regulation which would make the less "savory" aspects of program unfeasible (the same aspects that make such schools so profitable).
Exactly! The only thing that ever matters at these places is the bottom line.
I am a very cynical person. I spent my early teenage years in Romania... Money corrupts. Period. I've seen ambulances leave people to die becuase they couldn't pay (and the care is supposed to be free... that's a joke). Street kids? 200,000 (no that is not a typo) of them living in the sewers and drainage canals. They often freeze to death in the winter. How did they get there? Parents abandoned them... Parents are too cheap/too lazy/too drunk to care. At the same time you see Mercedes benzes all over the place. How do people treat the streat kids? By and large like shit.. worse than shit. The police beat the kids for fun... in public... and people cheer. Why? Because those little fuckers are a nuisance when you're at a stop-light and they "clean" your windshield.
I've seen incidences of corruption and depravity you wouldn't believe. Who: Don't be so arrogant as to think that the US is above this. People are the same the world over. We just don't do such things as openly... If you don't regulate... and enforce the regulations... things will turn to shit as people will exploit the system. This goes back to the loophole... Ever seen one that hasn't been exploited? Of course not.. becuase as soon as one is pointed out, somebody will take advantage of it. Who succeeds in an amoral world where the bottom line defines success? The ruthless.
whoops... time to go to French class.
No way, psy, I am a little familiar with that area too, I have family from Chrisinau Maldova and a family friend who was born in Romania and still travels there to see his family. We helped Romania expose their treatment of kids in the state run baby houses,
good. Though most of those kids are permanently damaged at this point. You know if you don't rotate them once every few weeks they tend to stick to the mattress (you know what i'm talking about).
Quote
they allowed the cameras back in after a few years to show us what a great job they did and how they are educating and assisting the parents financially to keep these kids in a family environment only to find out they just moved the baby houses to a different part of the country and changed their names under the guises of adoption homes and the abuse is still continuing,
Just like... well. i'll leave you to figure that out.
Quote
they suck and they should all be shot. I know it won?t stop in my lifetime.
Really? Wouldn't be so sure about that. I was just there in December. Rumor has it the country is holding itself together with tissue paper. Another revolution? It's possible. The rich get richer... until the whole house of cards collapses. Happens every time. Most Romanians just want the hell out of there anyway. Most of the educated doctors and lawyers all left long ago...
Quote
What you say is exactly right about the kids there and that could happen openly here if we allowed it. But there will always be loop holes and we need to keep exposing them and plugging them and businesses will never ever volunteer to be regulated, whether it is your local dry cleaner with the solvents he uses or a TBS. The state/people need to enforce regulation where they feel it is necessary and impose harsh penalties.
My my. Are you arguing for regulation? and enforcement of it?
Quote
I have experienced my share of corruption in that area of the world. One of my experiences was when I boarded an old double prop Russian plane bound for Almaty.
Aeroflot? :lol: I love flying on that airline... It's even better than Tarom.
Quote
The plane had racks above the seats like you would see on a greyhound bus (you were probably on one of these), so every time we hit turbulence stuff would just fall down into the isle or on top of you. I placed my carry on bag which contained my laptop, some cash and sealed paperwork bound for the US Embassy in Almaty up front in a secure area so it wouldn?t fall. When we arrived I was told to leave my bag and wait at the gate. Even though it is a big city the airport was small and you just get off the plane and walk to an outdoor waiting area, so they didn?t want you to have to carry all your stuff. Anyway to make a long story short, My bag never showed and I watched everyone going by, I had no translator and I knew my bag was on the plane.
:rofl: never.. ever... ever.... give away your bag. to anybody. period. I carry backpacks facing forward when i'm in Romanian airports.
Quote
So I walked back and we all stood there, I finally walked back on the plane and couldn?t find it. So after an hour of refusing to move away from the plane a police person showed up, he spoke a little English, I told him about the bag and paperwork bound for the US Embassy and he started screaming at the pilot walked on and came out with my bag and asked me to go thru it (it was in the pilots cabin or cockpit). When my translator showed up she told me it was typical all they wanted was a reward for finding it, if you had given them $50 you could have had it right away,
A tip right? :rofl:
Quote
they weren?t thieves and didn?t want to steal your bag or anything, just regular people. People over there have lived with corruption for so long it just becomes a part of life and is accepted on a daily bases.
Yeah. In Romania we had to pay to get the garbage taken out... or they would just leave it. Usually a bottle of foreign whisky for Chrismas would do it. You're right though. It really is part of the culture over there.
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 05:22:00 PM
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
It's really sad but the third world countries shut these places down faster then we do here in the states.
oh fuck no they don't
hah! Look. Abuse anywhere is bad... but unless the foreigners come in..
nobody gives a shit. and usually what happens is this:
The foregners come...
see atrocity
wave finger
authorities wave finger, promise to fix, shake hands, photo op
foreigners leave
"ok everybody. you can relax now.. they're gone... now where's my cut?"
It's sad... but not an exaggeration.
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 05:25:14 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
?no one wants others to come in and audit their systems or try to tell them what to do. I don?t know of any families that call DSS to come visit them on a monthly basis to check things out or Corporations inviting OSHA in to visit. It?s a pain in the butt, they need to schedule people to escort them around, file paperwork, take them out to lunch and with DSS it is time you could be spending with your family, take time off work etc.. Most feel there is no value added. Everyone feels, probable yourself included, they are dong the best job possible and don?t value oversight.?
well boo hoo. i think the kids value oversight.
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 05:28:29 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Having the public know the truth, that you're operating fraudulently without a license, couldn't possibly "add value".aah... but what they don't know... can't hurt them... but can fuck up their kids right good.
Quote
Some are too desperate to care, other's are outraged when they discover the truth.
Most are too happy with their beliefs of what happened to ever consider the possibility that they might have made a mistake... too much guilt... so no considering that possibility...
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 05:39:57 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I see your point, if you are trying to deceive then yes you would not want to be regulated either. But by not wanting to be regulated doesn?t mean you have something to hide. I guess that was my point in a round about way.
Well i don't want to obey the speed limit but i would suppose quite a few pedestrians (and my insurance provider) are glad i (mostly) do.
Quote
So every boarding school needs this license/regulation? Or is it the therapy part that drives this need?
The therapy part i would say. Schools should not be able to advertise services such as "we deal with depression, adhd, substance abuse, bla bla, nose picking, bla bla, disturbing rock music" Is that infringing on free speech? No. Why? Because it is willful misrepresentation of provided services. My parents assumed (as did quite a few i have talked to), that counselors were licenced and properly trained... that was not the case. When a school, says "we have group therapy in the afternoon"... What is a parent to think? It's not in writing though... so it never happened.
Point is. If a facility is licenced as a school, it should be just that. If the kids have substance issues? 30 day treatment facilities deal with that just fine. It's not a long term thing, and a kid can easily get an excuse from school. It also teaches them what program cannot: how to avoid substances in the real world... not some CEDUized cult bubble.
Quote
I think most parents assume the state is doing their job and the places are licensed. If they were told the place was unlicensed I believe most would want to understand why, like myself.
Well who is going to tell them. You're damn right the school isn't going to... and even if they do... what is to guarantee they are telling the truth. NATSAP has a lot of letters... it sounds legit... "we're a NATSAP school".. or "we have a private school affidavit"... parents say: "OOH.. i don't know what that word means... so it must be legitimate..."
... aah.. but such is the result of industry self-regulation.
Post by: hanzomon4 on February 06, 2007, 06:32:31 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 06, 2007, 08:20:34 PM
Quote
Well i don't want to obey the speed limit but i would suppose quite a few pedestrians (and my insurance provider) are glad i (mostly) do.
But what if you were a cab driver and you did obey the speed limit because it was the right thing to do and then the regulation people come along and wanted to start installing devices in all the cars to send data back to their office so they could monitor (regulate) your speed from their office. They send you a letter in the mail and say it is really a good idea if you get this device, it will help out the state and your fares in the long run. Just give us a call when you are ready and then drive out to see us and we will give you the device. You can then go to your local service station or dealer and have it installed at a nominal price. The service will only cost you a few dollars a month. If a violation occurs and you exceed the speed limit, say doing 37 mph in a 35mph zone we would not issue a summons right away but would give you the opportunity to respond to us in writing on why you exceeded the limit and what you intend to do in the future to insure it doesn?t happen again. We would review it and determine if you should be fined or not. You can always drive out and protest the decision in person if you like.
How many cabbies would sign up? If you didn?t sign up would it make you a terrible driver? Would it mean you are trying to hide something about your driving habits? Would you be the first one in line?
If I came along and told you that the state was swamped and had no funding to follow up on all of this and if you don?t get the device they wouldn?t know it for two years at least and there would be no fines, anyway. Which way would you go? Would your decision make you a bad person or your fares be put in any worse danger?
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2007, 08:31:39 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
But what if you were a cab driver and you did obey the speed limit because it was the right thing to do and then the regulation people come along and wanted to start installing devices in all the cars to send data back to their office so they could monitor (regulate) your speed from their office. They send you a letter in the mail and say it is really a good idea if you get this device, it will help out the state and your fares in the long run. Just give us a call when you are ready and then drive out to see us and we will give you the device. You can then go to your local service station or dealer and have it installed at a nominal price. The service will only cost you a few dollars a month. If a violation occurs and you exceed the speed limit, say doing 37 mph in a 35mph zone we would not issue a summons right away but would give you the opportunity to respond to us in writing on why you exceeded the limit and what you intend to do in the future to insure it doesn?t happen again. We would review it and determine if you should be fined or not. You can always drive out and protest the decision in person if you like.
How many cabbies would sign up? If you didn?t sign up would it make you a terrible driver? Would it mean you are trying to hide something about your driving habits? Would you be the first one in line?
If I came along and told you that the state was swamped and had no funding to follow up on all of this and if you don?t get the device they wouldn?t know it for two years at least and there would be no fines, anyway. Which way would you go? Would your decision make you a bad person or your fares be put in any worse danger?
But what if you wewe a cab dwivew and you did obey the speed wimit because it was the wight thing to do and then the weguwation peopwe come awong and wanted to stawt instawwing devices in aww the caws to send data back to theiw office so they couwd monitow (weguwate) youw speed fwom theiw office. Dey send you a wettew in the maiw and say it is weawwy a good idea if you get this device, it wiww hewp out the state and youw fawes in the wong wun, uh-hah-hah-hah. Just give us a caww when you awe weady and then dwive out to see us and we wiww give you the device. You can then go to youw wocaw sewvice station ow deawew and have it instawwed at a nominaw pwice. De sewvice wiww onwy cost you a few dowwaws a month. If a viowation occuws and you exceed the speed wimit, say doing 37 mph in a 35mph zone we wouwd not issue a summons wight away but wouwd give you the oppowtunity to wespond to us in wwiting on why you exceeded the wimit and what you intend to do in the futuwe to insuwe it doesn?t happen again, uh-hah-hah-hah. We wouwd weview it and detewmine if you shouwd be fined ow not. You can awways dwive out and pwotest the decision in pewson if you wike. How many cabbies wouwd sign up? If you didn?t sign up wouwd it make you a tewwibwe dwivew? Wouwd it mean you awe twying to hide something about youw dwiving habits? Wouwd you be the fiwst one in wine? If I came awong and towd you that the state was swamped and had no funding to fowwow up on aww of this and if you don?t get the device they wouwdn?t know it fow two yeaws at weast and thewe wouwd be no fines, anyway. Which way wouwd you go? Wouwd youw decision make you a bad pewson ow youw fawes be put in any wowse dangew?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 06, 2007, 08:35:33 PM
However they do as a matter of habit abuse kids, and on occasion kill kids, and everything is not on the up and up. So they lie to parents and they lie to state agencies.
For the companies that do follow the law even without some constantly looking over their shoulder I'm sure it is a pain in the ass, unfortunatly as it relates to this industry the track record suggest they need to be watched like a hawk and will exploit every loophole and avoid every regulation they can that they find to be inconvienent.
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2007, 08:38:39 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 06, 2007, 08:46:18 PM
Quote
Wait wait wait......tell me when did this "long debate" take place, and with whom? Further at when point were you deemed an expert that you can decide what is best for parents? Cindy you arent even close to be able to make such a call, your own daughter by your own addmission hates you. The thing I can't decide is if youre just crazy and really believe your own selfimportance or if youre just an asshole. Probably a little of both.
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 08:46:26 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Psy Wrote:QuoteWell i don't want to obey the speed limit but i would suppose quite a few pedestrians (and my insurance provider) are glad i (mostly) do.
But what if you were a cab driver and you did obey the speed limit because it was the right thing to do and then the regulation people come along and wanted to start installing devices in all the cars to send data back to their office so they could monitor (regulate) your speed from their office. They send you a letter in the mail and say it is really a good idea if you get this device, it will help out the state and your fares in the long run. Just give us a call when you are ready and then drive out to see us and we will give you the device. You can then go to your local service station or dealer and have it installed at a nominal price. The service will only cost you a few dollars a month. If a violation occurs and you exceed the speed limit, say doing 37 mph in a 35mph zone we would not issue a summons right away but would give you the opportunity to respond to us in writing on why you exceeded the limit and what you intend to do in the future to insure it doesn?t happen again. We would review it and determine if you should be fined or not. You can always drive out and protest the decision in person if you like.
How many cabbies would sign up? If you didn?t sign up would it make you a terrible driver? Would it mean you are trying to hide something about your driving habits? Would you be the first one in line?
If I came along and told you that the state was swamped and had no funding to follow up on all of this and if you don?t get the device they wouldn?t know it for two years at least and there would be no fines, anyway. Which way would you go? Would your decision make you a bad person or your fares be put in any worse danger?
You've taken a so-so analogy and made it much worse. That tends to happen when analogies are continued... they lose a bit of pertainance with each generation.
The situation you are describing would make a cabbie's life hell. However, we are dealing with kids, not cab fares... there are a few major differences here:
Cab fares can get out if they think the driver is nuts. If cabbies were programs here's what would happen:
Quote
Cabbie: *runs stopsigns...*
Fare: "what the hell... you just ran a stopsign"
Cabbie: "So who are you going to tell. nobody will believe you. you're just a fare"
Fare: "Let me out"
Cabbie: "Not until my dispatcher gets authorization"
Fare: "I'm not paying the fare... this is kidnapping"
Cabbie: "You're right about that.. but this credit card just keeps charging"
Fare: "i'm calling the cops..."
Cabbie: "with what phone... oh you mean my phone... not without the dispatcher's permission... write a proposal *chuckles*"
You get the point...
It's one thing when you're talking about a 5mph over speed violation... There are cops to enforce that.. there are no speed limits on the industry, and where there are there are no cops for miles and miles...
I get your point... that "what if regulations cause some good schools to close down."
i see it this way... "what if regulations cause some good drivers, who speed with good intentions, to either follow the speed limit, or stop driving"
Why is it a good analogy? Becuase if the driver isn't speeding, he/she has nothing to fear from speed limits. But the industry is speeding. EG Schools use techniques that could potentially, and have, harmed kids.
But what if it gets the fare there quicker?
These are kids. They deserve the maximum amount of safety... and unlike your big brother cabbie analogy... state regulation would only hurt those who were "breaking the speed limit".
So what if it creates a burden for the schools. An industry claiming to benefit kids should spare no expense to do so. It may be a hassle... beaurocracy can do that, but without cops... what would the state of traffic be. Could you imagine a "self regulating" traffic system? That was tried.. it failed .. miserably ...
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on February 06, 2007, 08:51:45 PM
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 08:53:30 PM
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
The only one who is making sense is The Who. Period. End of story. Throw in the towel guys, you're losing.
burn in hell you traitorous bitch. go suck lon off for a lump of crack...
The amount of contempt i feel for you is immeasurable. You have become the abuser now. Rationalize it all you want.. you will live with the guilt of your actions. You have started down a path you will regret. Mark my words on that. Sue Scheff never suffered as you did... if she did... maybe she would never have considered doing what she did... You know full well what you are doing. You do not have ignorance as an excuse.
I seriously hope there is a hell for people like you
know this: Your money will not buy your soul back
Post by: RobertBruce on February 06, 2007, 09:08:26 PM
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
The only one who is making sense is The Who. Period. End of story. Throw in the towel guys, you're losing.
Oh look Cindy you finally got someone dumb enough to buy into your nonsense. Congradulations! :D
Post by: TheWho on February 06, 2007, 09:19:37 PM
Quote
These are kids. They deserve the maximum amount of safety... and unlike your big brother cabbie analogy... state regulation would only hurt those who were "breaking the speed limit".
Well?.dam?that makes some sense?.sh*t?let me see
Quote
So what if it creates a burden for the schools. An industry claiming to benefit kids should spare no expense to do so. It may be a hassle... beaurocracy can do that, but without cops... what would the state of traffic be. Could you imagine a "self regulating" traffic system? That was tried.. it failed .. miserably ...
Well?.good response?.I don?t advocate self regulation, at all. I am trying to understand why the schools would want to be regulated. Not wanting to be regulated I understand. If mother Theresa was running a school I don?t think she would want these guys looking under her skirt and telling her she cant use the word ?God? in public because they have received complaints from atheists in the area. She believes she is doing a good job. But, If mother Theresa signs up for regulation she can tell the world she has oversight from the state and therefore the kids are better protected and receive the proper care?and if the word gets out? this in turn will make the parents happy and more parents will want to send there kids to mother Theresa vs ASR or HLA/Straight etc. and Mother Theresa will receive many more kids at $6,000/ month than her competition and her cause would grow.
Then all the others , ASR, HLA,Straight would have to follow suit or bow out of the game, right and the kids would benefit immediately, I would sign up tomorrow for this??? how do we start to make this happen?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on February 06, 2007, 09:22:02 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""The only one who is making sense is The Who. Period. End of story. Throw in the towel guys, you're losing.
burn in hell you traitorous bitch. go suck lon off for a lump of crack...
The amount of contempt i feel for you is immeasurable. You have become the abuser now. Rationalize it all you want.. you will live with the guilt of your actions. You have started down a path you will regret. Mark my words on that. Sue Scheff never suffered as you did... if she did... maybe she would never have considered doing what she did... You know full well what you are doing. You do not have ignorance as an excuse.
Temper, temper Psy! Get a hold of yourself!!!!
I seriously hope there is a hell for people like you
know this: Your money will not buy your soul back
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2007, 09:29:56 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""The only one who is making sense is The Who. Period. End of story. Throw in the towel guys, you're losing.
Oh look Cindy you finally got someone dumb enough to buy into your nonsense. Congradulations! :D
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 09:34:12 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Psy Wrote:QuoteThese are kids. They deserve the maximum amount of safety... and unlike your big brother cabbie analogy... state regulation would only hurt those who were "breaking the speed limit".
Well?.dam?that makes some sense?.sh*t?let me seeQuoteSo what if it creates a burden for the schools. An industry claiming to benefit kids should spare no expense to do so. It may be a hassle... beaurocracy can do that, but without cops... what would the state of traffic be. Could you imagine a "self regulating" traffic system? That was tried.. it failed .. miserably ...
Well?.good response?.I don?t advocate self regulation, at all. I am trying to understand why the schools would want to be regulated. Not wanting to be regulated I understand. If mother Theresa was running a school I don?t think she would want these guys looking under her skirt and telling her she cant use the word ?God? in public because they have received complaints from atheists in the area.
federal regulation is not equivalent to federal funding...
All schools are regulated by the state to some extent... only schools that have no affiliation are entitled to federal funding. If a school wants to be a christian school... fine.
Personally.. I really don't think mother Theresa would care if there was government oversight into what she did. "Looking up her skirt" would violate her personal privacy. Looking up the skirt of school is every parent, and every child's right. What do they have to hide? Schools exist for the benefit of the customers, and customers have a right to demand accountability and oversight. They shouldn't have to ultimately... that's what state regulation is supposed to be for: so there is some authority making sure the kids aren't being abused, and their human rights are being respected.
Quote
She believes she is doing a good job. But, If mother Theresa signs up for regulation she can tell the world she has oversight from the state and therefore the kids are better protected and receive the proper care?and if the word gets out? this in turn will make the parents happy and more parents will want to send there kids to mother Theresa vs ASR or HLA/Straight etc. and Mother Theresa will receive many more kids at $6,000/ month than her competition and her cause would grow.
Then all the others , ASR, HLA,Straight would have to follow suit or bow out of the game, right and the kids would benefit immediately, I would sign up tomorrow for this??? how do we start to make this happen?
Well that's the idea. But regulation, as i've said earlier, ultimately hurts the bottom line of these schools... not directly, but by requiring changes (some costly but necessary for the safety of the kids).
Do i think regulation is possible voluntarily? No. Will legislation be effective on the state level? No. Will federal legislation? Got enough cash for lobbyists? No... But we have survivors.. lots of em. and they are pissed. Organization is what is needed... Cafety is a good start. From there... affecting federal legislation hopefully...
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2007, 09:40:03 PM
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
The only one who is making sense is The Who. Period. End of story. Throw in the towel guys, you're losing.
[troll7]
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2007, 09:41:38 PM
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
Quote from: ""psy""Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""The only one who is making sense is The Who. Period. End of story. Throw in the towel guys, you're losing.
burn in hell you traitorous bitch. go suck lon off for a lump of crack...
The amount of contempt i feel for you is immeasurable. You have become the abuser now. Rationalize it all you want.. you will live with the guilt of your actions. You have started down a path you will regret. Mark my words on that. Sue Scheff never suffered as you did... if she did... maybe she would never have considered doing what she did... You know full well what you are doing. You do not have ignorance as an excuse.
Temper, temper Psy! Get a hold of yourself!!!!
I seriously hope there is a hell for people like you
know this: Your money will not buy your soul back
You can still staff seminars if you want, did you know that?!!! It's exciting isn't it?!!
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2007, 09:42:17 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""The only one who is making sense is The Who. Period. End of story. Throw in the towel guys, you're losing.
Oh look Cindy you finally got someone dumb enough to buy into your nonsense. Congradulations! :D
:P :rofl: :lol: :rofl:
Post by: TheWho on February 06, 2007, 09:54:15 PM
Quote
Schools exist for the benefit of the customers, and customers have a right to demand accountability and oversight. They shouldn't have to ultimately... that's what state regulation is supposed to be for: so there is some authority making sure the kids aren't being abused, and their human rights are being respected.
Exactly, The customer is the parent, the product is the child. The schools will respond primarily/initially to the needs of the parent not the child, although there is an assumption (made by the parents) that the child is protected from being abused and having their rights violated. If the parents are not educated or know enough about the industry to understand what is needed for their child or they are being taken advantage of by the industry the state should be there, step in and advocate for that child. There should be something in place to protect the child?s rights and insure no abuse is taking place. As a minimum standard this should be true in any state.
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2007, 09:57:48 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2007, 09:58:17 PM
Post by: teachback on February 06, 2007, 10:03:02 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Exactly, The customer is the parent, the bloody product is the bloody child. Cor blimey guv! The schools will respond primarily/initially ter the bloody needs of the parent not the bleedin' child, alffough there is an assumption (made by the parents) that the child is protected from bein' abused and 'avin' their rights violated, right? If the parents ain't educated or know enough about the bloomin' industry ter understand woss needed for their child or they are bein' taken advantage of by the chuffin' industry the state should be there, step in and advocate for that child. There should be sumfink in place ter protect the bloody child?s rights and insure no abuse is takin' place. Right. As a minimum standard this should be true in any state.
:rofl: :silly: ::bwahaha::
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 10:11:48 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Psy Wrote:QuoteSchools exist for the benefit of the customers, and customers have a right to demand accountability and oversight. They shouldn't have to ultimately... that's what state regulation is supposed to be for: so there is some authority making sure the kids aren't being abused, and their human rights are being respected.
Exactly, The customer is the parent, the product is the child. The schools will respond primarily/initially to the needs of the parent not the child, although there is an assumption (made by the parents) that the child is protected from being abused and having their rights violated. If the parents are not educated or know enough about the industry to understand what is needed for their child or they are being taken advantage of by the industry the state should be there, step in and advocate for that child. There should be something in place to protect the child?s rights and insure no abuse is taking place. As a minimum standard this should be true in any state.
i resent being called a "product".... but ... oh well.. you're just insensitive.
Well there isn't anything in place to protect child's rights at the moment. There is no minimum standard. The kids have no methods of reporting abuse/fraud while in program and it is not required. So yes. There should be something in place but there isn't. And while that is the case, no EG schools (or unlicenced programs in general) are safe. Like slavitz says... russian roulette.
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2007, 10:14:58 PM
Quote from: ""Harley Davidson""
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""The only one who is making sense is The Who. Period. End of story. Throw in the towel guys, you're losing.
Oh look Cindy you finally got someone dumb enough to buy into your nonsense. Congradulations! :D
:P :rofl: :lol: :rofl:
CongraTulations dumb ass.
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2007, 10:17:38 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Well there isn't anything in place to protect child's rights at the moment.
Don't you fret young man. Kev and CCMGirl at hard at work developing a strategy that will save all the kids!!!!
Post by: TheWho on February 06, 2007, 10:18:35 PM
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 10:18:39 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""psy""Well there isn't anything in place to protect child's rights at the moment.
Don't you fret young man. Kev and CCMGirl at hard at work developing a strategy that will save all the kids!!!!
Kind of like a "final solution"?
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2007, 10:19:38 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Harley Davidson""Quote from: ""RobertBruce""Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""The only one who is making sense is The Who. Period. End of story. Throw in the towel guys, you're losing.
Oh look Cindy you finally got someone dumb enough to buy into your nonsense. Congradulations! :D
:P :rofl: :lol: :rofl:
CongraTulations dumb ass.
(http://http://images.quizilla.com/A/AngelPie/1034640147_rebeccajump.jpg)
You'll do better next year, don't be bitter.
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 10:27:11 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Sorry for the slight
no problem. It just illustrates a point that many people often make on Fornits though... The kid is not a "product" he/she is a living, breathing, sentient organism who can make choices for him/herself (that's how we learn consequences... touch hot stove.. get burned.. etc). What say does the kid have in a placement? Has he/she no rights at all? It seems many parents want a result... unsatisfied with the choices his/her child has made of his/her own free will. Is this an unreasonable amount of control? In many cases yes.
Of course you could argue drugs bla bla bla... on his way to shooting heroin... Well. You could convince him/her that he/she needs help. Try talking to his/her other friends... maybe relatives. Express concern. 30 day treatment centres... as i've said.. usually have good results... and prepares them for the real world as well.
How long does a coerced change last? Sure the parent gets a nice temporary result in a controlled(you have no idea) enviornment... but once the kid gets out... what happens? often: Boom! and it's back to the TBS again.
Post by: TheWho on February 06, 2007, 10:44:06 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Sorry for the slight
no problem. It just illustrates a point that many people often make on Fornits though... The kid is not a "product" he/she is a living, breathing, sentient organism who can make choices for him/herself (that's how we learn consequences... touch hot stove.. get burned.. etc). What say does the kid have in a placement? Has he/she no rights at all? It seems many parents want a result... unsatisfied with the choices his/her child has made of his/her own free will. Is this an unreasonable amount of control? In many cases yes.
Of course you could argue drugs bla bla bla... on his way to shooting heroin... Well. You could convince him/her that he/she needs help. Try talking to his/her other friends... maybe relatives. Express concern. 30 day treatment centres... as i've said.. usually have good results... and prepares them for the real world as well.
How long does a coerced change last? Sure the parent gets a nice temporary result in a controlled(you have no idea) enviornment... but once the kid gets out... what happens? often: Boom! and it's back to the TBS again.
I see your point, my daughter went Boom!! When she got home and I tried not to panic, although I did inside, and gave her a ton of space because she and I were able to talked things thru each night or when needed and she convinced me she was fine. She finally decided on her own to do something different than what she was doing and the open communication, being able to express herself and her feelings, which she learned at ASR really helped and she eventually chose a better path for herself and she is doing great. I am not the type to flip out over some pot, piercings, type of dress etc. ASR just worked for her and helped her figure things out.
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2007, 10:46:41 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
ASR just worked for her and forced her figure things out.
Post by: Programmie-Trans 9000 on February 06, 2007, 10:49:03 PM
Quote
I miss your point again, my daughter went Boom!! (although obviously not enough, as I'm still alive) When she got home and I threw a huge hissy fit inside and out, and threatened to send her back on multiple occasions and she finally realized that she'd need to feed me almost as much bullshit as she fed the program. But the program had destroyed her sense of self, boundaries, etc for her to relate to her old friends anymore, not to mention the lack of open communication. Basically, ASR really destroyed her soul to the point that she couldn't function in society anymore, thus she still hates me and still won't talk to me. I fucking flipped out over some pot, piercings, type of dress etc- why do you think I sent her to that abusive shitpit in the first place? ASR fucking ruined my daughter and now I want to spread the pain.
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2007, 11:00:16 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
(http://http://myspace-016.vo.llnwd.net/00707/61/00/707220016_l.gif)
Dayum! Howd I miss tha t the first rounod through this therad!!???
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 11:01:14 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""psy""Quote from: ""TheWho""Sorry for the slight
no problem. It just illustrates a point that many people often make on Fornits though... The kid is not a "product" he/she is a living, breathing, sentient organism who can make choices for him/herself (that's how we learn consequences... touch hot stove.. get burned.. etc). What say does the kid have in a placement? Has he/she no rights at all? It seems many parents want a result... unsatisfied with the choices his/her child has made of his/her own free will. Is this an unreasonable amount of control? In many cases yes.
Of course you could argue drugs bla bla bla... on his way to shooting heroin... Well. You could convince him/her that he/she needs help. Try talking to his/her other friends... maybe relatives. Express concern. 30 day treatment centres... as i've said.. usually have good results... and prepares them for the real world as well.
How long does a coerced change last? Sure the parent gets a nice temporary result in a controlled(you have no idea) enviornment... but once the kid gets out... what happens? often: Boom! and it's back to the TBS again.
I see your point, my daughter went Boom!! When she got home and I tried not to panic, although I did inside, and gave her a ton of space because she and I were able to talked things thru each night or when needed and she convinced me she was fine. She finally decided on her own to do something different than what she was doing and the open communication, being able to express herself and her feelings, which she learned at ASR
Trained behavior is not "learned" behavior. She was forced to be "open" at ASR. The fact that she was able to figure out things on her own speaks volumes.
You were trained too... at parent workshops. You simply do not realize it. Emotion overwhelmed you and they used that weakness to drive a point home. Emotion is not bad mind you... It simply can be used to manipulate. I would suggest you think about what was said in those workshops and see if they line up with reality. what real insight could they offer you.. it was a clever, scripted scam. Of course you don't believe me. Of course if i'm right... you would still not believe me.
Personally. I doubt she tells you what she truly feels anymore. I never have since my parents sent me to program. I don't trust them enough. of course.. after program.. and the "masks" (of herself) she threw away... i wonder if she feels much at all anymore. Sad price to pay for good behavior.
Quote
really helped and she eventually chose a better path for herself and she is doing great. I am not the type to flip out over some pot, piercings, type of dress etc. ASR just worked for her and helped her figure things out.
And i'm sure she believes that too. It takes a while for the kool-aid to wear off. Kool-aid half-life is different from person to person.
Do yourself a favor... ask her exactly... and have her quantify: What skills did she learn? I can almost guarantee... she will not be able to answer that question... why? Because the only thing she learned, is to say "i learned valuble life skills... etc."
Post by: psy on February 06, 2007, 11:15:39 PM
But it is all hollow rhetoric.... ask for an explanation and ... "well there's nothign in the (very simple shell) script for that"
Which is why... if you wish to disprove me... and more importantly... prove to yourself that you are right... ask your daughter what i suggested in my last post.
Post by: teachback on February 07, 2007, 08:23:33 AM
She doesn't mean a word of what she says; she just wants to see how much of a reaction she can get.
Post by: Troll Control on February 07, 2007, 09:34:05 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""psy""Quote from: ""TheWho""Sorry for the slight
no problem. It just illustrates a point that many people often make on Fornits though... The kid is not a "product" he/she is a living, breathing, sentient organism who can make choices for him/herself (that's how we learn consequences... touch hot stove.. get burned.. etc). What say does the kid have in a placement? Has he/she no rights at all? It seems many parents want a result... unsatisfied with the choices his/her child has made of his/her own free will. Is this an unreasonable amount of control? In many cases yes.
Of course you could argue drugs bla bla bla... on his way to shooting heroin... Well. You could convince him/her that he/she needs help. Try talking to his/her other friends... maybe relatives. Express concern. 30 day treatment centres... as i've said.. usually have good results... and prepares them for the real world as well.
How long does a coerced change last? Sure the parent gets a nice temporary result in a controlled(you have no idea) enviornment... but once the kid gets out... what happens? often: Boom! and it's back to the TBS again.
I see your point, my daughter went Boom!! When she got home and I tried not to panic, although I did inside, and gave her a ton of space because she and I were able to talked things thru each night or when needed and she convinced me she was fine. She finally decided on her own to do something different than what she was doing and the open communication, being able to express herself and her feelings, which she learned at ASR really helped and she eventually chose a better path for herself and she is doing great. I am not the type to flip out over some pot, piercings, type of dress etc. ASR just worked for her and helped her figure things out.
I have been making this point repeatedly for years, but let me make it again for clarity's sake:
Behavior modification produces behaviors in the subject to which it rigidly adheres in the test environment, however, these conditioned responses are not generalized into other environments. That is, BM produces behaviors in the subject that are environment specific.
This is the reason why all of these programs fail to produce any lasting results outside the treatment center. This is not new information and has been axiomatic since the dawn of behavior research.
TheWho is a living example of this. His daughter imploded upon release because, in effect, she learned nothing that applies to objective reality. After two years and some natural maturation that was forcibly delayed by her placement her life took on some meaning and she became autonomous (read "deconditioned" from her programming at ASR).
It's really that simple. These programs have not, can not and will not work - ever - because of the flawed, discredited, abandoned concepts upon which they are based.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 10:41:29 AM
Quote
ASR just worked for her and helped her figure things out.
This I believe more than anything else showcases what is wrong with Cindy's thinking. Cindy assumes that his daughter came out okay from ASR, therefore the same must be true for everyone else.
Even if your daughter did manage to come out unscathed from one of these places, she's in the minority.
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2007, 10:53:45 AM
GET IT, ok THEWHO this girl coming to her senses was simply her own GROWIN UP A BIT---and she was able to do this in what appears to be some meaningful way, only when she was away from YOU, and ASR
Post by: Ganja on February 07, 2007, 01:34:32 PM
Quote from: ""grasshopper""
CCM Girl is being a troll, plain and simple.
She doesn't mean a word of what she says; she just wants to see how much of a reaction she can get.
Post by: TheWho on February 07, 2007, 03:22:58 PM
Quote
And i'm sure she believes that too. It takes a while for the kool-aid to wear off. Kool-aid half-life is different from person to person.
Do yourself a favor... ask her exactly... and have her quantify: What skills did she learn? I can almost guarantee... she will not be able to answer that question... why? Because the only thing she learned, is to say "i learned valuble life skills... etc."
We have talked about this off and on over the last few years and she says she seems more at ease about stuff, about her future. She is not all flipped out about what others think as much and has learned to talk openly about what she wants and what her needs are.
She is much more settled with herself and happier. So as far as skills I would say the ability to communicate better and ask for what she needs, would be a couple I can think of. I will ask her again what she thinks now that we are a few years out.
Post by: psy on February 07, 2007, 03:48:50 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I will ask her again what she thinks now that we are a few years out.
That will be interesting. :D
Post by: Oz girl on February 07, 2007, 04:37:50 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I am not the type to flip out over some pot, piercings, type of dress etc. ASR just worked for her and helped her figure things out.
A lot of parents say this yet they are willing to allow their kid to be incarcerated for 2 years in a place that spends 24/7 flipping out over far less than a few piercings or pot. Lets not forget the interrogation and subsequent public humiliation that caused ashley to throw herself in front of a truck. This was because she had sex. Lets not forget that ARS deems friendships that centre around talking about video games unhealthy and bans them.
Doesn't it send a mixed message to a kid to send them to a place which freaks out about all of these things if you personally don't?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 04:51:20 PM
Quote
We have talked about this off and on over the last few years and she says she seems more at ease about stuff, about her future. She is not all flipped out about what others think as much and has learned to talk openly about what she wants and what her needs are.
She is much more settled with herself and happier. So as far as skills I would say the ability to communicate better and ask for what she needs, would be a couple I can think of. I will ask her again what she thinks now that we are a few years out.
Yes other people call this "growing up" your daughter would have gotten there anyway, all you did by sending her there was give her alot more to deal with and alot more things to have to get over. That and another reason to hate you.
Post by: TheWho on February 07, 2007, 04:59:24 PM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
Quote from: ""TheWho""I am not the type to flip out over some pot, piercings, type of dress etc. ASR just worked for her and helped her figure things out.
A lot of parents say this yet they are willing to allow their kid to be incarcerated for 2 years in a place that spends 24/7 flipping out over far less than a few piercings or pot. Lets not forget the interrogation and subsequent public humiliation that caused ashley to throw herself in front of a truck. This was because she had sex. Lets not forget that ARS deems friendships that centre around talking about video games unhealthy and bans them.
Doesn't it send a mixed message to a kid to send them to a place which freaks out about all of these things if you personally don't?
I realize some of the rules are a little silly. Places which house lots of different people have many rules to protect the many issues each of them may have. In my Childs school they cant store peanut products in their locker, the teachers cant talk about God anymore, no smoking or using foul language, no tan hooded sweat shirts etc. Some of these apply to my own house but not all of them but we need to abide for the sake of others whom they are in place to protect. I don?t think it sends a mix message, the rules at our home are clear and others have their rules to follow.
Post by: Oz girl on February 07, 2007, 05:10:40 PM
However ASR is far more sisnster than that. They drive kids over the edge. look at WITTPMT. Look at the fact that DJ was actually doing really well until they banned the only meaningful friendship he had for the most petty of reasons. Look at the fact that Ashley threw herself in front of a truck when she found out she wouhl have to do another year there. Look at the psychodramas that the kids were forced to participate in.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 05:11:07 PM
ASR is telling her if she does she's a drug addict and will be deadorinjail if she doesnt stop.
Do you see the conflict?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 05:12:32 PM
Quote:
Wait wait wait......tell me when did this "long debate" take place, and with whom? Further at when point were you deemed an expert that you can decide what is best for parents? Cindy you arent even close to be able to make such a call, your own daughter by your own addmission hates you. The thing I can't decide is if youre just crazy and really believe your own selfimportance or if youre just an asshole. Probably a little of both.
Post by: TheWho on February 07, 2007, 05:51:10 PM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
if it were just that the rules were a little silly this would be ok. I had to wear a ridiculous school uniform for 12 yrs and it was not scarring. I would say it was silly though
However ASR is far more sisnster than that. They drive kids over the edge. look at WITTPMT. Look at the fact that DJ was actually doing really well until they banned the only meaningful friendship he had for the most petty of reasons. Look at the fact that Ashley threw herself in front of a truck when she found out she wouhl have to do another year there. Look at the psychodramas that the kids were forced to participate in.
Oz Girl, I don?t think the rules drive anyone over the edge or that we know the cause of individual suicides. They have experts who cannot figure out why someone takes their own life or snaps. If a friendship is ended whether it is healthy or not is going to cause distress. If you break off a friendship with someone and they take their life do you really think the only cause is the break up of the friendship? Was it your fault for breaking it off? Should you go to jail? There was probably more going on in that person life and it was festering for a long time?.
Post by: Oz girl on February 07, 2007, 06:04:56 PM
But lets look at what did happen. A "therapist" suspected a girl who was emotionally fragile and troubled was in a sexual relationship.
She interrogated the girl for hours on end until finally the girl broke down and confessed as did her love interest.
She then forced the couple to confess to the entire group who all were encouraged to verbally express their disgust and judgement.
The girl in question was then told she would have to spend another year at ASR because they were giving her the "gift" of a second chance
So delighted with this gift was young ashley that she threw herself in front of a truck. She ended up in a psych ward.
I would argue that ASR actively pushed Ashleys suicidal feelings.
Again a silly rule is no gum chewing, or my school favourite, it is unladylike to be seen eating apples on the Street. What ASR kids were subjected to were not silly rules.
Do you think who that 28 months in such an environment may have contributed to your daughter not speaking to you for 2 years as you say happened
Post by: TheWho on February 07, 2007, 06:17:21 PM
Quote
Again a silly rule is no gum chewing, or my school favourite, it is unladylike to be seen eating apples on the Street. What ASR kids were subjected to were not silly rules.
Do you think who that 28 months in such an environment may have contributed to your daughter not speaking to you for 2 years as you say happened
I dont think the silly rules contrubuted to this. My daughter was there about 16 months and she didnt run off or stop speaking to me.......
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2007, 06:19:02 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
My daughter was there about 16 months and she didnt run off or stop speaking to me.......
yea, that wasn't until AFTER she got out.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 06:20:09 PM
Also still waiting on you to become brave enough to answer the questions.
Post by: TheWho on February 07, 2007, 06:29:51 PM
Quote
......your daughter not speaking to you for 2 years as you say happened
Oz Girl, When my daughter first came home she had a difficult time readjusting and went back to her old crowd for a few weeks. I was really nervous but gave her the space she needed?.we kept the lines of communication open and she eventually saw that she wanted to move on to a more mature crowd which she did. It was a slingshot type effect. She was in this safe place and then entered back into her old environment and reverted back for a time. She moved on with her schooling and our relationship has not been better, there was no running off or breakdown in communication.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 06:35:29 PM
Now when are you going to stop being such a weak little girl and answer those questions?
Post by: TheWho on February 07, 2007, 06:40:50 PM
For the year 2001 - 2002 I have not found any data to fit the data set. If anyone knows of any data, let me know:
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data to present
:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,053 Homicides and 1,777 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. (No data found)*
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
* - Data found here on fornits, internet new articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: Oz girl on February 07, 2007, 06:47:24 PM
Do you think that ASR dealth with Ashley in an appropriate and professional manner?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 06:49:04 PM
Oh well I can be patient.
Here we go again. Cindy while Im putting together those figures to prove you wrong again how about you grow some balls and answer the questions?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 06:52:10 PM
Out of 52,000,000 public school kids 16 were killed in school
Translating to 1 out of every 3,250,000 kids being killed.
Out of those 52,000,000 6 committed suicide while in school.
Translating to 1 out of 8,666,667 kids killing themselves.
Of those same 52,000,000 kids 2140 were killed outside of school.
Translating to 1 out of every 24,300 kids being killed.
Of those same 52,000,000 public school kids 1928 kids committed suicide outside of school.
Translating to roughly 1 out of every 27,000 kids committing suicide.
Out of 20,000 kids in the private theraputic sector so far we have 7 who were killed by staff members.
Translating to 1 out of every 2,857 kids being murdered by staff.
Of those same 20,000 kids 2 committed suicide.
Translating to 1 out of every 10,000 committing suicide.
This is of course for only one year June of 1999-July 2000
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 06:54:24 PM
In the public sector out of 52,000,000 kids 2059 were killed outside of school, roughly translating to:
1 out of every 25,255 kids being killed outside of school.
Of those same 52,000,000 1,890 committed suicide outside of school.
Translating to roughly
1 out of every 27,513 kids committing suicide outside of school.
In school out of 52,000,000 17 kids were killed. Translating to:
1 out of every 3,058,824 kids being killed in school.
Of those same 52,000,000 5 kids committed suicide while in school.
Translating to:
1 out of every 10,400,000 kids killing themselves while in school.
In the Private Theraputic Sector out of 20,000 kids 6 kids were killed by staff members, translating to:
1 out of every 3,334 kids being killed by staff members.
Of those same 20,000 kids 1 committed suicide, translating to:
1 out of every 20,000 kids killing themselves.
Post by: TheWho on February 07, 2007, 06:59:14 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 07:03:18 PM
Speaking of which Im still waiting on you to explain to us who "we" really is.
See if you cant handle that.
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2007, 07:14:16 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""My daughter was there about 16 months and she didnt run off or stop speaking to me.......
yea, that wasn't until AFTER she got out.
When was the time period when she wouldn't talk to you?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 07:24:58 PM
On February 14, 2002, 15-year old Latasha Bush died from complications of mechanical restraint and asphyxia after being restrained at the Daystar Residential Treatment Center in Southeast Texas. A DPRS investigation concluded she died after being restrained. The medical examiner listed mechanical asphyxiation as the cause of death.
On March 7, 2002, 14-year old Cedric Napoleon died as a result of being restrained at the Manor Middle School in Killeen, Texas.
This one doesnt actually fit for what were discussing because he was killed by his teachers in a public school. I just wanted to mention him because I unlike Cindy am unwilling to dismiss these children and their deaths simply because they dont prove my point.
The Denver Post
May 20, 2002
A teenage girl committed suicide Friday night at Devereux Cleo Wallace residential treatment center in Westminster, police said Sunday.
The 17-year-old was found hanging, according to Westminster police investigator Troy Cooper. The girl's name was not released. The center was her only listed address.
Post by: TheWho on February 07, 2007, 07:29:24 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2007, 07:31:26 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 07, 2007, 07:36:15 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""TheWho""My daughter was there about 16 months and she didnt run off or stop speaking to me.......
yea, that wasn't until AFTER she got out.
When was the time period when she wouldn't talk to you?
Her first 16 months of life, I spoke to her, but she didn?t respond back at first . she eventually started...ever since then we have communicated fairly well until she was in her early teens, we struggled with our communication among other things. Our communication improved during her time at ASR and continued until this day with out interruption. So I would have to say her first 16 months of life?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 07:37:46 PM
Out of 52,000,000 kids in the public sector 17 were killed while in school.
Translating to:
1 out of every 3,058,824 kids being murdered while in school
Out of those same 52,000,000 kids in the public sector 5 committed suicide while in school.
Translating to:
1 out of every 10,400,000 kids killing themselves while in public school.
Of those same 52,000,000 2,036 were killed in the public sector.
Translating to:
1 out of every 25540 kids being killed
Of those same 52,000,000 kids 1,772 kids committed suicide.
Translating to
1 out of every 29345 kids in the public sector killing themselves
In the private theraputic sector out of 20,000 kids 2 were murdered by staff members.
Translating to:
1 out of every 10,000 kids being murdered by staff members.
Of those same 20,000 kids in the private theraputic sector 1 committed suicide.
Translating to:
1 out of every 20,000 kids killing themselves.
At least its an improvement over the previous years I guess. :-?
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindica ... le_1.1.asp (http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindicators/crimeindicators2005/Indicators.asp?PubPageNumber=1&ShowTablePage=TablesHTML/table_1.1.asp)
Post by: TheWho on February 07, 2007, 07:39:24 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 07:39:40 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first. We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently. Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.
At this point Im not sure if hes joking or if he really is crazy. I'm leaning towards the later.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 07:40:35 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Thanks again, Bob, all your data is being recorded and added to the data base......Good work!!! Keep it coming......
Sounds great. I've added yours to the fornits joke collection. Remind me to tell you the one about the frayed knot, its hysterical.
So then, ready to move onto the next year?
Post by: Oz girl on February 07, 2007, 07:43:10 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 07, 2007, 07:46:39 PM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
why do you call the who cindy?
Cindy who from Whoville
Post by: psy on February 07, 2007, 08:20:30 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Like I said Bob, your numbers are great but we are talking about 2 different data sets and 2 different sets of parameters. I have taken your data and pasted it into my database and we reviewed it. It is valuable information and will be used in some limited capacity when we expand the data set to include other areas like "Wilderness" "boot camp", "hospitals" etc. so your work hasnt been for nothing...thanks
Wait one minute... I think missed something while i was ignoring the first 80 some pages... what is your "research" for. Who is "we". What are you "collecting" this data for?
Post by: TheWho on February 07, 2007, 08:21:56 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Thanks again, Bob, all your data is being recorded and added to the data base......Good work!!! Keep it coming......
So then, ready to move onto the next year?
I have a few more names to go thru..... I will be starting 2002 -- 2003. If you could, focus on all deaths and also homicide and suicide data outside of the TBS area and I will gather the TBS data....so we dont duplicate the effort. You are really pulling your weight so far, Bob. Proud of you!!! Let me know when you are done so I can add it to the main database.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 08:22:08 PM
I still havent decided if he's joking or if he's certifiable.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 08:28:55 PM
Quote
I have a few more names to go thru..... I will be starting 2002 -- 2003. If you could, focus on all deaths and also homicide and suicide data outside of the TBS area and I will gather the TBS data....so we dont duplicate the effort. You are really pulling your weight so far, Bob. Proud of you!!! Let me know when you are done so I can add it to the main database.
Fantastic! You let me know when you come down off whatever youre currently on and then we'll be all set!
Post by: TheWho on February 07, 2007, 08:31:06 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Like I said Bob, your numbers are great but we are talking about 2 different data sets and 2 different sets of parameters. I have taken your data and pasted it into my database and we reviewed it. It is valuable information and will be used in some limited capacity when we expand the data set to include other areas like "Wilderness" "boot camp", "hospitals" etc. so your work hasnt been for nothing...thanks
Wait one minute... I think missed something while i was ignoring the first 80 some pages... what is your "research" for. Who is "we". What are you "collecting" this data for?
We are collecting data of the number of Homicides and suicides in the US for kids ages 5 thru 18, year to year inside and outside of TBS's. As soon as we can get the data up to date we will look at "Wilderness" data with the same parameters, then boot camps etc.. This is just the data collection phase. We are hoping at some point to be able to look at the differences between the public and private sector in these categories, maybe look at trends in the industry.
"We" are interested parents, people here on fornits etc.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 08:35:34 PM
Who specifically is "we"?
Post by: psy on February 07, 2007, 08:37:04 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Cindy claims to have gone to a secret meeting with several high ranking officals from fornits. He claims they all met at the Hyatt in Chicago last month.
I still havent decided if he's joking or if he's certifiable.
I entertain possabilities ... i can't help it.. they run through my head.. and sometimes things fit together...
Ok.. a paranoid conspiracy theory just ran through my head:
If you are telling the truth:
Why would you possably meet up with "high ranking officials" from fornits in Chicago...
Purpose? Why would you want to be collecting this data... and why from fornits?
Could you be considering going into the consluting business? and if so... would the data be used in a manner such as: "well hey: we collected this data from anti-program advocates... and it says it's not that bad!" Is there a marketing angle to the data?
In which case i wonder... if you met with anybody else from fornits, who might they be... hhm.. three letters and a certain name starting with K come to mind...
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 08:38:39 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first. We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently. Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.
Here's his original comment before he gets a chance to try and edit it.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 08:44:48 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 07, 2007, 08:45:44 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Oh no no no Cindy, you claimed there was a "long debate" and that it was decided that "we" were only going to look at TBS's as you define them.
Who specifically is "we"?
The debate was long, Bob... many wanted to start with "Wilderness data" and I argued that the real money was in the TBS industry, so lets start there, although wilderness is usually the inital phase of any decent TBS. So we went round and round....you, Bob have been a key player in collecting and presenting data on the entire industry and I have been focusing on small segments at a time.
I dont want to put names out there, people want to be anon's.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 07, 2007, 08:56:20 PM
Post by: psy on February 07, 2007, 09:03:09 PM
Milk... no.. he doesn't have the patience... and he's better at analogies
Oz? no.. she has better things to do
deb, ditto
Zen.. naw... not
Exhausted... doubt it ... highly doubt it.
Niles... nope. much better logic
Cassandra/ginger... i don't think it's her sense of humor
DJ.... doubt it
RB.... that would be truly odd
The maybes:
TSW? hmm... perhaps.. he is an ass.. and he does like trolling people incessantly for the sheer fun of it.
The guess:
Muldoon? hmm... It is a distinct possability... but he has a few very distinctive aspects to his punctuation (unless somebody tipped him off)
Post by: psy on February 07, 2007, 09:12:49 PM
http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=245384#245384
Quote from: ""The Who (talking to TryingDad)""
That was a huge concern for us also, shipping her off as you say. As far as treatment we had a therapist that was independent from the TBS see my daughter each week (except when she traveled to Costa Rica) and her Therapist kept in contact with her therapist at home . So that way if there were any medical concerns, i.e, clinical depression, TBS not being effective for her etc. we could pull her out and seek other options.
Sick jokes taken too far...
When i read that.. i knew TSW wouldn't have done it... so it has to be somebody who doesn't care too much about the kids.
Post by: Ganja on February 07, 2007, 09:13:24 PM
Post by: psy on February 07, 2007, 09:14:22 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
What the hell, I'll admit it- I'm TheWho; it's been me all along.
get The Who to admit it and i'll believe you...
On the other hand... who on Fornits would have visited Romania... that information was genuine... Although he did misspell some names... but that's common. Chisinau, Moldova.. for example...... Moldova is not technically Romania.. and romanians aren't very fond of them: "mai bun sigani ca moldavian!" (better gypsy than moldavian)..
Post by: TheWho on February 08, 2007, 09:13:41 AM
Quote from: ""psy""
whoever it is... i could strangle him/her for this:
http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=245384#245384Quote from: ""The Who (talking to TryingDad)""That was a huge concern for us also, shipping her off as you say. As far as treatment we had a therapist that was independent from the TBS see my daughter each week (except when she traveled to Costa Rica) and her Therapist kept in contact with her therapist at home . So that way if there were any medical concerns, i.e, clinical depression, TBS not being effective for her etc. we could pull her out and seek other options.
Sick jokes taken too far...
When i read that.. i knew TSW wouldn't have done it... so it has to be somebody who doesn't care too much about the kids.
Out of all the responses...some even suggesting military school of all places... and a couple of honest responses from another parent sharing his experiences seems to offend?......That is a very strange reaction, psy.
Post by: psy on February 08, 2007, 10:58:00 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""psy""whoever it is... i could strangle him/her for this:
http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=245384#245384Quote from: ""The Who (talking to TryingDad)""That was a huge concern for us also, shipping her off as you say. As far as treatment we had a therapist that was independent from the TBS see my daughter each week (except when she traveled to Costa Rica) and her Therapist kept in contact with her therapist at home . So that way if there were any medical concerns, i.e, clinical depression, TBS not being effective for her etc. we could pull her out and seek other options.
Sick jokes taken too far...
When i read that.. i knew TSW wouldn't have done it... so it has to be somebody who doesn't care too much about the kids.
Out of all the responses...some even suggesting military school of all places... and a couple of honest responses from another parent sharing his experiences seems to offend?......That is a very strange reaction, psy.
Look. If you were sincere, i apologize. But as it is, it seems as if you are a troll. Why? Who the hell would claim they met with people from fornits in Chicago... And if you did... why? Answer the questions please:
1. Why are you collecting this data? What is the purpose? Why do you want to do a study on this issue?
2. Are you in any way financially tied to the troubled teen industry?
3. Are you playing devil's advocate?
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2007, 10:59:43 AM
Post by: psy on February 08, 2007, 11:29:29 AM
Post by: TheWho on February 08, 2007, 11:35:16 AM
Quote
1. Why are you collecting this data? What is the purpose? Why do you want to do a study on this issue?
Well there has been much discussion on this forum (on and off) over the past years on kids dying and committing suicide in these places and I find it hard to believe if the rate was so high that someone would?nt do something about it. When I asked for specifics I received a list of kids who died of restraints, died at home, boat accidents, heart attacks in the woods etc. and there didn?t seem to be any semblance to the collecting of this data nor conditions for adding names so nothing was clear to me. I understand kids die in treatment, kids die everywhere. So what could we compare it to? The NCES collects data on Homicides and Suicides in the public sector so we could bounce some numbers off of what they have. As most people know when collecting data for comparison purposes that you need to define parameters, we took the same parameters the NCES used so we could get as close as possible to apples and apples. So that is why we stayed with Homicides and suicides, because the NCES has comparable data available. We chose a small segment to start (TBS?s) to see how the data plays out and figure out a collection and presentation method etc. anyway to make a long story short. The data may help parents aid in their decision on choosing or not choosing a TBS or choosing the right TBS and eventually this may expose the programs which have a high rate and seem ineffective and allow others to float to the top??..
Quote
2. Are you in any way financially tied to the troubled teen industry?
No
Quote
3. Are you playing devil's advocate?
Not now?.although I will take this position if I feel the conversation is lacking a perspective?..for example. if a group of parents are talking about how all TBS are great I may hop in and indicate that some kids have done poorly and have not been helped by the industry. And vice versa
Post by: psy on February 08, 2007, 11:42:56 AM
Quote from: ""The Who""
Not now?.although I will take this position if I feel the conversation is lacking a perspective?..for example. if a group of parents are talking about how all TBS are great I may hop in and indicate that some kids have done poorly and have not been helped by the industry. And vice versa
Aha. So your "agenda" is simply to "facilitate debate/discussion"(troll) by making sure the discussion does not become too one-sided...(troll) i see.
So. Here is a question:
1. in what form/manner would you release the results of such data collection?
2. With which organization
whoops.. time for french class
Post by: TheWho on February 08, 2007, 12:30:13 PM
Quote
Aha. So your "agenda" is simply to "facilitate debate/discussion"(troll) by making sure the discussion does not become too one-sided...(troll) i see.
No? no agenda. I have just taken the devils advocates position from time to time, not just on fornits but in general.
Quote
So. Here is a question:
1. in what form/manner would you release the results of such data collection?
2. With which organization
Not, sure?..dont have any plans to release the data, just taking a look
Quote
whoops.. time for french class
plus tard
Post by: TheWho on February 08, 2007, 03:33:09 PM
Quote
Aha. So your "agenda" is simply to "facilitate debate/discussion"(troll) by making sure the discussion does not become too one-sided...(troll) i see
I noticed the ?Troll? you mentioned. When I heard people use this here I always thought it was given to people who were causing trouble or just interested in disrupting the conversation for fun. I never knew it meant posters who went against the group speak or spoke against a majority. If this is the case then I guess I would be considered a troll here on fornits, I would have to admit?? so actively trolling is more being stubborn and sticking with a minority position and refusing to join the group., interesting.
Post by: Troll Control on February 08, 2007, 03:50:05 PM
That being said, some people may take your steadfast adherence to debunked data as "trolling" because many of the assertions you make are factually bereft. We've all learned that, even though it seems you intend these items to be interpreted as fact, when you're pressed, you always admit it's your opinion.
I, for one, don't believe you're a troll. You're just incredibly misguided on a number of issues. Ignorance is actually a defense to trolling, as trolling requires willful deception.
You's jus' ig'nant!
Post by: TheWho on February 08, 2007, 04:01:59 PM
Here take a look what I have so far:
I am attempting to change the layout (so bear with me) to facilitate easier comparison from year to year and clarify where the source data comes from. Here is a first cut.
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data to present
:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,053 Homicides and 1,777 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. (No data accumulated as of today)*
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
* - Data found here on fornits, internet new articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: psy on February 08, 2007, 05:11:51 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteAha. So your "agenda" is simply to "facilitate debate/discussion"(troll) by making sure the discussion does not become too one-sided...(troll) i see
I noticed the ?Troll? you mentioned. When I heard people use this here I always thought it was given to people who were causing trouble or just interested in disrupting the conversation for fun. I never knew it meant posters who went against the group speak or spoke against a majority. If this is the case then I guess I would be considered a troll here on fornits, I would have to admit?? so actively trolling is more being stubborn and sticking with a minority position and refusing to join the group., interesting.
Neither. A troll is like a devil's advocate really... only with different intentions. It's somebody who takes an unpopular position for the sheer sake of causing "drama" for lack of a better word. If you're sincere. By all means. have at it.
I detest what you say, but i will defend to the death your right to say it
Post by: psy on February 08, 2007, 05:14:29 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
I, for one, don't believe you're a troll. You're just incredibly misguided on a number of issues. Ignorance is actually a defense to trolling, as trolling requires willful deception.
What he's trying to say is you're in denial.
Denial = Dont Even No I Am Lying...
Whee. I learned that in pwogwam !
Post by: RobertBruce on February 08, 2007, 05:15:29 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteAha. So your "agenda" is simply to "facilitate debate/discussion"(troll) by making sure the discussion does not become too one-sided...(troll) i see
I noticed the ?Troll? you mentioned. When I heard people use this here I always thought it was given to people who were causing trouble or just interested in disrupting the conversation for fun. I never knew it meant posters who went against the group speak or spoke against a majority. If this is the case then I guess I would be considered a troll here on fornits, I would have to admit?? so actively trolling is more being stubborn and sticking with a minority position and refusing to join the group., interesting.
Please don't try and make yourself some sort of martyr or hero for the underdog Cindy. You could give a shit about the underdogs of the world. The definition of a troll is not someone who goes against the majority on an issue, the definiition of a troll is someone who purposely derails conversations or presents knowingly false information. I'm going to have to go with Dysfunction on this one, you're so crazy and stupid enough to believe your own lies, so no I don't believe youre a troll in the slightest.
Post by: psy on February 08, 2007, 05:15:41 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Aha?come on DJ?tell us how you really feel?data is only as good as the source ?. I have collected mine from NCES and court decisions and links and data received here on fornits?..I am sorry the data doesn?t support your opinions. They are only hard numbers at this point. I am trying to be as clear as possible......I am not claiming the data to be representing the entire industry, just TBS's:
Here take a look what I have so far:
I am attempting to change the layout (so bear with me) to facilitate easier comparison from year to year and clarify where the source data comes from. Here is a first cut.
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data to present
:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,053 Homicides and 1,777 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. (No data accumulated as of today)*
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
* - Data found here on fornits, internet new articles, posts and PM?s
Hmm... this vaguely resembles something i might have seen before.. but i can't quite remember where.
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2007, 05:32:13 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Hmm... this vaguely resembles something i might have seen before.. but i can't quite remember where.
It was the last time you had uncontrollable diarrhea and took a gander into the bowl before flushing...
Post by: RobertBruce on February 08, 2007, 06:09:36 PM
Quote
Aha?come on DJ?tell us how you really feel?data is only as good as the source
Wrong psychward. I've looked at the same numbers as you, I just count everything while you pick and choose what you will and will not accept.
Quote
?. I have collected mine from NCES and court decisions and links and data received here on fornits?..
Still waiting on you to provide links to those court decsions youve mentioned so many times.
Quote
?..I am sorry the data doesn?t support your opinions.
The data does support his opinion, which would then make it a fact. You just refuse to look at all of it for fear of proving yourself wrong. Something the rest of us have done to you several times over.
Quote
They are only hard numbers at this point
With your own personal spin on them of course.
Quote
I am trying to be as clear as possible..
Yes Cindy, your bullshit is practically transparent.
Quote
......I am not claiming the data to be representing the entire industry, just TBS's:
Yet you already made a concluscion before looking at any of the data. Thus proving you have an agenda.
Quote
Here take a look what I have so far:
What you have? Since when? What happened to "we" psychward? Did the band break up? No matter, you have nothing but nonsense. Give me a moment and I'll show you what we have.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 08, 2007, 06:12:40 PM
Out of 52,000,000 public school kids 16 were killed in school
Translating to 1 out of every 3,250,000 kids being killed.
Out of those 52,000,000 6 committed suicide while in school.
Translating to 1 out of 8,666,667 kids killing themselves.
Of those same 52,000,000 kids 2140 were killed outside of school.
Translating to 1 out of every 24,300 kids being killed.
Of those same 52,000,000 public school kids 1928 kids committed suicide outside of school.
Translating to roughly 1 out of every 27,000 kids committing suicide.
Out of 20,000 kids in the private theraputic sector so far we have 7 who were killed by staff members.
Translating to 1 out of every 2,857 kids being murdered by staff.
Of those same 20,000 kids 2 committed suicide.
Translating to 1 out of every 10,000 committing suicide.
This is of course for only one year June of 1999-July 2000
Post by: RobertBruce on February 08, 2007, 06:13:08 PM
In the public sector out of 52,000,000 kids 2059 were killed outside of school, roughly translating to:
1 out of every 25,255 kids being killed outside of school.
Of those same 52,000,000 1,890 committed suicide outside of school.
Translating to roughly
1 out of every 27,513 kids committing suicide outside of school.
In school out of 52,000,000 17 kids were killed. Translating to:
1 out of every 3,058,824 kids being killed in school.
Of those same 52,000,000 5 kids committed suicide while in school.
Translating to:
1 out of every 10,400,000 kids killing themselves while in school.
In the Private Theraputic Sector out of 20,000 kids 6 kids were killed by staff members, translating to:
1 out of every 3,334 kids being killed by staff members.
Of those same 20,000 kids 1 committed suicide, translating to:
1 out of every 20,000 kids killing themselves.
Post by: psy on February 08, 2007, 06:13:48 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 08, 2007, 06:14:38 PM
Out of 52,000,000 kids in the public sector 17 were killed while in school.
Translating to:
1 out of every 3,058,824 kids being murdered while in school
Out of those same 52,000,000 kids in the public sector 5 committed suicide while in school.
Translating to:
1 out of every 10,400,000 kids killing themselves while in public school.
Of those same 52,000,000 2,036 were killed in the public sector.
Translating to:
1 out of every 25540 kids being killed
Of those same 52,000,000 kids 1,772 kids committed suicide.
Translating to
1 out of every 29345 kids in the public sector killing themselves
In the private theraputic sector out of 20,000 kids 2 were murdered by staff members.
Translating to:
1 out of every 10,000 kids being murdered by staff members.
Of those same 20,000 kids in the private theraputic sector 1 committed suicide.
Translating to:
1 out of every 20,000 kids killing themselves.
At least its an improvement over the previous years I guess.
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindica ... le_1.1.asp (http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindicators/crimeindicators2005/Indicators.asp?PubPageNumber=1&ShowTablePage=TablesHTML/table_1.1.asp)
Post by: TheWho on February 08, 2007, 06:21:54 PM
Hey I like that one, its a keeper....... I guess it means we can all be suffering from the same thing.......unwittingly screwing our lives up so we can prove to our parents they made a bad choice in getting us help?? hmm or one of us hell bent on proving them wrong and will go to any level to make it a point! I guess it is possible.
Anyway, I am off for a few days, see if we can find some snow. There sure isn?t any around here. It is February and we haven?t had more than an inch of snow the whole season, so hang in??. I?ll think about the whole Troll/Denial thing while I am off.
Hey bob, good work....see if you can find some data to fit 2003, we will be starting on that when we get back
Post by: RobertBruce on February 08, 2007, 06:26:11 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 08, 2007, 06:53:10 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2007, 06:59:16 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Sounds great. Good luck with your electroshock!
No.
Post by: TheWho on February 08, 2007, 07:29:37 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
What did I freaking tell you people?
Ha,Ha,
Ooo?Oooo What did I tell you people, it was just a matter of time before I exposed the ?who? and he runs away? Remember it was me, me.. RobertBruce who did it? I get all the credit.. nobody else?. I did it all myself? I exposed him for who he was and he will leave for 6 months and go to Russia just like he did last year in shame? I shamed him just me?and he went away????I win twice! thats Two times??Dam, life is good??.
Sorry, just checking in? I forgot my keys, I am only going away to get electric shock er, Dam backspace doesnt work I mean.. skiing for a couple of days? loosen up Bob.
Post by: FLCLcowdude on February 08, 2007, 07:38:13 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 08, 2007, 08:00:53 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""What did I freaking tell you people?
Ha,Ha,
Ooo?Oooo What did I tell you people, it was just a matter of time before I exposed the ?who? and he runs away? Remember it was me, me.. RobertBruce who did it? I get all the credit.. nobody else?. I did it all myself? I exposed him for who he was and he will leave for 6 months and go to Russia just like he did last year in shame? I shamed him just me?and he went away????I win twice! thats Two times??Dam, life is good??.
Sorry, just checking in? I forgot my keys, I am only going away to get electric shock er, Dam backspace doesnt work I mean.. skiing for a couple of days? loosen up Bob.
Yikes. Cindy it looks like you need this "vacation" badly. Take some time for yourself, get your mind straight. Youre letting me and this site get to you a bit too much, this electroshock is just what you need. When you get back in either a few days or six months as it may be we can talk again. Till then, take care of yourself Cindy.
Post by: Troll Control on February 09, 2007, 09:25:08 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Aha?come on DJ?tell us how you really feel?data is only as good as the source ?. I have collected mine from NCES and court decisions and links and data received here on fornits?..I am sorry the data doesn?t support your opinions. They are only hard numbers at this point. I am trying to be as clear as possible......I am not claiming the data to be representing the entire industry, just TBS's:
Here take a look what I have so far:
I am attempting to change the layout (so bear with me) to facilitate easier comparison from year to year and clarify where the source data comes from. Here is a first cut.
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data to present
:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,053 Homicides and 1,777 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. (No data accumulated as of today)*
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
* - Data found here on fornits, internet new articles, posts and PM?s
You miss the point. If you'll kindly read back through this thread, you'll see I haven't challenged your precious 'data.'
To me, it's just drivel. Your baseline assumptions drive your quest to find data that fit your preconceived notion. This is flatly unscientific and invalidates your 'data.' Also, you don't have the slightest clue about what statistics are, how they are used, or the regressional analysis thereof.
So, I just don't get involved in your latest boondoggle because I already know from your faulty logic and nonexistant ability to apply statistical models and understand their significance that you're engaged in pure folly. Have fun with that!
Just harken back to our discussions about clinical studies and your utter inabaility to fathom what they are and what they mean. This should tell you all y0u need to know about your current "study." :roll:
Post by: Troll Control on February 09, 2007, 10:41:54 AM
Quote
The Who said:
"I am not claiming the data to be representing the entire industry, just TBS's"
Can't believe I missed this on first blush...
So, you're now claiming that your 'data' is a representative sample of the TBS industry? You've got a lot to learn, Who. I can't see a peer review of your work in your future, my friend.
Post by: Troll Control on February 09, 2007, 11:23:35 AM
The reality is that I couldn't care any less about this nonsense. Objective reality demonstrates that kids die in programs and that programs don't work.
So, would you pay an egregious amount of money for a product that doesn't uphold its implied warranty of merchantability and may kill you to boot??? I wouldn't; therefore TheWho's argument is just drivel, as previously stated.
Post by: Troll Control on February 09, 2007, 12:05:10 PM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
and restated again and again and again before that by everyone else.
Hey since you are bent on restoring balance to the force could you tell me what exactly qualifies a LCSW to conduct therapy sessions? I've wondered about that one for a while and haven't been able to get much in the way of answers.
Here in NY, the requirements to be an LCSW are as follows:
The practice of licensed clinical social work and the use of the title "Licensed Clinical Social Worker" and the designation of "LCSW" or derivatives thereof in New York State requires licensure as a licensed clinical social worker, unless otherwise exempt under the law.
To be licensed as a licensed clinical social worker (LCSW) in New York State you must:
be of good moral character;
be at least 21 years of age;
have an education that includes a masters degree in social work (M.S.W.) with at least 12 semester hours of clinical coursework;
have at least 3 years of post M.S.W. supervised experience in clinical social work;
meet examination requirements; and
complete coursework or training in the identification and reporting of child abuse offered by a New York State approved provider.
You must file an application for licensure and the other forms indicated, along with the appropriate fee, to the Office of the Professions at the address specified on each form. It is your responsibility to follow up with anyone you have asked to send us material.
The specific requirements for licensure are contained in Title 8, Article 154, Section 7704 of New York State Education Law and Part 74 and Section 52.30 of the Regulations of the Commissioner of Education. Copies of the relevant sections of NYS Education Law and the Commissioner's Regulations are also available from [email protected] or 518-474-3817 ext. 320.
An LCSW is basically an MSW with beefed up clinical training and experience. They are fully qualified to provide therapy.
I am a (former-no longer practicing) LCSW with a BA in Psychology and an MSW with tons of clinical continuing education and experience.
Many facilities will hire an LCSW over an MA (Psy) because an LCSW is considered a 'terminal degree' and the holder of such is able to receive third-party reimbursement for services (get paid by insurance), while an MA can provide therapy under the guidance of a licensed provider, but cannot bill a third party.
I cannot speak intelligently on regulations from other states, but NY is typically among the strongest in requirements for licensing. Other states will have different regulations.
Post by: Troll Control on February 09, 2007, 12:33:37 PM
Generally speaking, Sociology approaches problems from a "systems" point of view, i.e. the subject is having difficulty fitting into the societal framework due to systemic problems in that society, while Psychology will examine the subject in terms of personal pathology.
In practice, there is a big overlap in these views and it's not cut-and-dried. Any pshrink worth his/her salt will understand that the environment shapes the subject powerfully and any MSW will likewise understand that individual pathology is a powerful force that impacts one's ability to assimilate into social systems.
Post by: Troll Control on February 09, 2007, 01:01:51 PM
All that said, there are many people who have these credentials and make poor therapists. Some just lack the intuitive insight necessary to help patients, some are only good at coursework, but not the application thereof and some are just plain too dense to do the job.
So, I think you need to view the degrees as a prerequisite that don't necessarliy lead to a "good" therapist, but must necessarliy be in place to have any chance at success.
Post by: TheWho on February 12, 2007, 10:01:44 AM
Now before I left we were looking at 2001 thru 2002 and no data was found from the sources that I am working with, but the datasets will be left open because there are more areas to research and some people have not checked in yet. So I have set up the data set 2002 ? thru 2003. Note that the NCES is reporting their data as preliminary, some of the causes have not been determined or there are trials still pending or in progress, they have revised their numbers over the past year. So these numbers have and can change.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data to present to date
:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides [/b](NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics (preliminary)
* - Data found here on fornits, internet new articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: Anonymous on February 12, 2007, 10:04:30 AM
Quote
Regression analysis
An unfortunately apt term to look at the industry with.
::troll::
Post by: Troll Control on February 12, 2007, 10:44:14 AM
Quote
TheWho wrote:
" If any of us need advice on Social work or being a begrudged ex-employee"
Well, of course you don't need advice on mental health care, social work or otherwise. Your program gives you that advice. :roll: As far as being a "begrudged" employee, I'm not sure where you get your information from. I do recall, however, that you stated you fired from a long string of jobs for precisely the behaviors you exhibit here. Reminder: You were fired from several jobs, not me.
I think it's funny that because you have no idea what you're talking about you try to slight me personally, pecisely what you admonish others for doing. You must have learned that from ASR.
Logical fallacy alert: TheWho is using ad hominems again rather than defending his position which, by the way, I made no comment upon.
Good job, Who, you're still at a level below the high school debate team. Come back and argue with me when you have established an academic baseline commensurate with the level of the concept you're discussing.
Post by: Troll Control on February 12, 2007, 10:56:20 AM
Quote
TheWho wrote:
"you will be the first we will ask, for statistics we will rely on ourselves and get advice from other professionals in the field as we deem it necessary."
Still consulting with those voices in your head...?
Just a nugget for you: There is no "we." There's only you repeating yourself over and over and over and over... (well you - singular- get the idea).
Carry on.
Post by: TheWho on February 12, 2007, 11:31:33 AM
Quote
Well, of course you don't need advice on mental health care, social work or otherwise. Your program gives you that advice??..Logical fallacy alert: TheWho is using ad hominems again rather than defending his position which, by the way, I made no comment upon..
Boo,Hoo?. TheWho isn?t playing fair?.he made light of me and my career/advice, and we don?t do that here on fornits?..so I will label him as one who uses ad Hominems.
Sorry to rile you up DJ?. If you want to comment on the data, please read it and understand it first. Throwing around a few statistical words, you looked up, makes you look foolish. My point was that you should stick with your social work advice!
Quote
I do recall, however, that you stated you fired from a long string of jobs for precisely the behaviors you exhibit here. Reminder: You were fired from several jobs, not me.
Yes, DJ, and I moved on each time and eventually realized I couldn?t work for anyone else, so I started my own string of businesses.
You spend your time in the past trying to punish and inflict pain on the people in your last position. This isn?t healthy and until you accept who you are and why it didn?t work out in your last job you wouldn?t be able to move forward.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 12, 2007, 11:31:43 AM
I'm going to call your doctor and see if we can't up your dosage.
I'm worried about you Cindy, I spoke with your daughter this morning but she said you could die for all she cared. I know thats got to make things harder for you.
Maybe we ought to try some good old fashion confrentational therapy? Do you think that would do you some good?
You need to accept that there is no reason for you to use the term "we". There is no "we" for you Cindy, there is only "I". No one believes your faulty data, no one believes your propoganda, no one buys into your bullshit and you have no credibility.
Accept it.
Post by: Troll Control on February 12, 2007, 11:56:39 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
DJ Wrote:QuoteWell, of course you don't need advice on mental health care, social work or otherwise. Your program gives you that advice??..Logical fallacy alert: TheWho is using ad hominems again rather than defending his position which, by the way, I made no comment upon..
Boo,Hoo?. TheWho isn?t playing fair?.he made light of me and my career/advice, and we don?t do that here on fornits?..so I will label him as one who uses ad Hominems.
Sorry to rile you up DJ?. If you want to comment on the data, please read it and understand it first. Throwing around a few statistical words, you looked up, makes you look foolish. My point was that you should stick with your social work advice!QuoteI do recall, however, that you stated you fired from a long string of jobs for precisely the behaviors you exhibit here. Reminder: You were fired from several jobs, not me.
Yes, DJ, and I moved on each time and eventually realized I couldn?t work for anyone else, so I started my own string of businesses.
You spend your time in the past trying to punish and inflict pain on the people in your last position. This isn?t healthy and until you accept who you are and why it didn?t work out in your last job you wouldn?t be able to move forward.
Blah, blah, blah, blah...
Who, let me reiterate just one more time: Don't inflate your sense of worth. You are not capable of getting me emotionally invested in anything you say.
As I've said before, I couldn't care less what you post. Nothing you say evokes any emotional response whatsoever from me. You're just some dummy on the internet - there are millions more like you floating around uselessly in cyberspace.
It is interesting though how you try to assign your values to everyone else, even going as far as to transpose your own shoddy work history onto others while asserting they are disgruntled. It's called "projection," and you do it constantly.
Again, it's no wonder why your daughter was so screwed up and why your relationship is in the rubbish pile. You're a real winner, buddy. :roll:
Post by: TheWho on February 12, 2007, 12:18:11 PM
Quote
Don't inflate your sense of worth?..there are millions more like you floating around uselessly in cyberspace.
Hmmm? what did you call it?.?projection"?? Interesting how that applies. As far as trying to get an emotional response?.I believe you were the one that came over here from the HLA thread to comment on the data collection?.. I don?t mind if you comment or get involve if you like, but don?t cry and resort to attacks because you cant keep up or add value to the conversation. If we were talking about Social work I would take your advice into consideration, but staying within your element would be more beneficial to the parents and kids, if you did want to help.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 12, 2007, 12:25:34 PM
Quote
staying within your element
Cindy I'm eager to hear how the metal stamping business relates to this industry. What exactly are your expertiese and how are you qualified to discuss the matter?
Post by: Troll Control on February 12, 2007, 12:38:30 PM
Remember, Who, about keeping with what you know, you're the genius who insisted for weeks on end (and insisted I prove you wrong, even though the 'data' is readily available with a few mouse clicks) that there are "10,000 practicing psychologists in the United States" when in reality there are over 150,000 that are members of the APA alone and that is only a fraction of the total number.
So, you'll forgive me if it stands to reason, by objective analysis of your posts, that you just don't know what you're talking about. It ain't that deep, buddy.
I know this upsets you greatly - being dismissed - as evidenced by your continuous posting of the same entry dozens of times in this thread. People just don't lend your nonsense any credibility, so "get over it" and "move on."
Post by: TheWho on February 12, 2007, 01:20:40 PM
Quote
I know this upsets you greatly - being dismissed - as evidenced by your continuous posting of the same entry dozens of times in this thread. People just don't lend your nonsense any credibility, so "get over it" and "move on."
Ha,Ha, I am not even in the shrink business and I know it is clear to everyone which one of us is upset. If you were not upset over the data collection or felt it was unimportant you would have never come over from the HLA thread to bother posting here.
If you do want to help or add value while you are here, I am presently looking for data for the time period July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Post by: Troll Control on February 12, 2007, 01:40:57 PM
Quote
The Who wrote:
"If you were not upset over the data collection or felt it was unimportant you would have never come over from the HLA thread to bother posting here."
Nah, you got it wrong again, pal (surprise, surprise). I never commented upon your little boondoggle except to caution others that aren't familiar with you that you've no idea what you're talking about.
I'm curious, Who, why do you keep saying "come over here from the HLA thread"? Are you under the impression that people here don't have the ability to post in any thread that they want to? In case you misunderstand, it's true - we have complete freedom of movement here.
BTW, I was posting here long before you ever did, so were you so upset with what I was posting that 'you came over here from Google' to refute it?
Or, when you were posting dozens of times anonymously in the HLA thread, were you doing so because you were upset? Or are you above all that and it's only everyone else who posted in the 'TheWho' thread that's 'upset and angry'?
Your statement seems pretty silly in retrospect, wouldn't you agree?
Post by: Anonymous on February 12, 2007, 02:06:09 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 12, 2007, 02:07:07 PM
Quote
BTW, I was posting here long before you ever did, so were you so upset with what I was posting that 'you came over here from Google' to refute it?
Ha,Ha, Truth hurts, he?. And it comes down to ?na,na,na? I was here first, so there?. DJ your Ego precedes you and you are acting childish, who cares if you were here first? Are parents who come on here for the first time less important than you or know any less because of it? Get over yourself?
Let me give you a little advice, you will feel much better about yourself if you do more to help people rather than trying to tear people down. Forget about the past do something positive today, forget HLA, try helping more of the kids and their parents?. I am sorry my views don?t agree with yours, but you need to get use to the idea that everyone doesn?t buy into your position. That is how the real world is DJ?..
Post by: RobertBruce on February 12, 2007, 02:35:38 PM
Quote
but I want you to get use to the idea that everyone doesn?t buy into your position. That is how the real world is
Words for you to live by Cindy. You need to print them off and paste them on your bathroom mirror. That way you can be reminded of them each and every day. Its a lesson you sorely need.
As for the rest......
Quote
Ha,Ha, Truth hurts, he?. And it comes down to ?na,na,na? I was here first, so there?. DJ your Ego precedes you and you are acting childish, who cares if you were here first? Are parents who come on here for the first time less important than you or know any less because of it? Get over yourself?
Let me give you a little advice, you will feel much better about yourself if you do more to help people rather than trying to tear people down. Forget about the past do something positive today, forget HLA, try helping more of the kids and their parents
You laugh but really its sad that youre so far out of touch with reality you dont even recognize your own argument being used against you.
Get help soon Cindy. Seriously.
Post by: Troll Control on February 12, 2007, 03:36:02 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
DJ wrote:QuoteBTW, I was posting here long before you ever did, so were you so upset with what I was posting that 'you came over here from Google' to refute it?
Ha,Ha, Truth hurts, he?. And it comes down to ?na,na,na? I was here first, so there?. DJ your Ego precedes you and you are acting childish, who cares if you were here first? Are parents who come on here for the first time less important than you or know any less because of it? Get over yourself?
Let me give you a little advice, you will feel much better about yourself if you do more to help people rather than trying to tear people down. Forget about the past do something positive today, forget HLA, try helping more of the kids and their parents?. I am sorry my views don?t agree with yours, but I want you to get use to the idea that everyone doesn?t buy into your position. That is how the real world is DJ?..
Wow, you really do have problems understanding basic English.
Sorry, let me say it in a different way, so you might actually understand.
It's not "I was here first" and "my ego hurts." That's not it at all and you missed the point entirely. Please go back and re-read for comprehension and you will see that I was asking you a question about how people get here (to Fornits or to a particular thread).
Since you believe I am "angry" and "upset" over your "data" or I would not have "come here from the HLA thread," I simply asked (as stands to reason using your logic) are you upset and angry over what I posted in the HLA threads and therefore came there to "feed your ego" because you're "upset and angry"?
It's a pretty simple concept, but you have the "program parent" syndrome whereby your assertions about others apply but when you are confronted with the same situation (in reverse) their assertions about you derived from your logic/reasoning somehow don't apply.
I'd like some clarification on this.
If I'm "angry and upset" as you claim is evidenced simply by my posting in this thread, are you not "angry and upset" as evidenced by your posting in the HLA thread?
It's your statement. I just wanted you to clarify and to understand that I believe this is a silly thing to say.
If you can't understand it now, maybe TSW can break it down "Barney Style" for you...?
Quote
TheWho wrote:
"forget HLA, try helping more of the kids and their parents"
I'm not sure how I can help the parents and kids at HLA more by ignoring the fact that they have been defrauded and horribly abused, respectively.
Can you help me understand how forgetting about child abuse helps it go away?
One way I help parents in your thread is to educate them that you have no clue what you're talking about. This thread is, after all, about you, not some data. Maybe you should start a new thread for your precious data collection...?
Post by: TheWho on February 12, 2007, 03:49:43 PM
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data to present to date
:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides [/b](NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
* - Data found here on fornits, internet new articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: Troll Control on February 12, 2007, 03:50:56 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
DJ, don't you have better things to do than endlessly feed this troll?
Eh, it's a slow day. I see TheWho as an ignorant, not a troll. Seriously, he believes what he says even though it flies in the face of reality.
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Nah, Who, you're not a troll. Trolling really involves some sort of deception or active sabotage.
That being said, some people may take your steadfast adherence to debunked data as "trolling" because many of the assertions you make are factually bereft. We've all learned that, even though it seems you intend these items to be interpreted as fact, when you're pressed, you always admit it's your opinion.
I, for one, don't believe you're a troll. You're just incredibly misguided on a number of issues. Ignorance is actually a defense to trolling, as trolling requires willful deception.
You's jus' ig'nant!
Post by: Anonymous on February 12, 2007, 03:51:10 PM
::troll::
Stop. Feeding. It.
Post by: Anonymous on February 12, 2007, 03:52:28 PM
Quote
Eh, it's a slow day. I see TheWho as an ignorant, not a troll.
Either fucking way, DJ. Seriously.
Post by: Troll Control on February 12, 2007, 03:55:48 PM
See yas tomorrow!
Post by: TheWho on February 12, 2007, 04:09:59 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
For those of you just joining us (shyeah, right), its TBS numbers are make-believe.
::troll::
Stop. Feeding. It.
Well, at least I am giving my sources. Some of the data provided me from fornits people are kids who died that were never within 100 miles of a wilderness camp or TBS before or when they died. Your data is beefed up to make a point.
I have reviewed all the data presented me and applied the same boundary conditions as the NCES. If you feel I have omitted a name make it known to myself and these people and I will add them
Post by: psy on February 12, 2007, 04:18:31 PM
http://http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/INMEMORIAM.html
see those dead kids. yes. those ones.
Post by: TheWho on February 12, 2007, 04:23:54 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Don't know why i bother:
http://http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/INMEMORIAM.html
see those dead kids. yes. those ones.
My response to Milk was in defense of the TBS data I am collecting, I dont question your data only poss the question. I will stay out of your thread as requested.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 12, 2007, 05:05:27 PM
Youve presented the same tired data again and again and I've shot it down each and every time. People are tired of hearing you spew off the same nonsense time and again, they are tired of watching us go in circles with each other. You need to face reality, your data is skewed and your point has been disproven.
Can you seriously not see that no one is on your side?
No one Cindy, not the posters on fornits, not people who collect this data, not even the imaginary people you have secret meetings with.
Even the program devotees are absent from your corner Cindy.
Why is this?
Is it because we're angry? Or jealous? Or bothered by your data? Is it because we're "disgruntled ex students and employees"?
No Cindy.
It's because anyone with half a brain can see how wrong you are.
You're only making a fool out of yourself, no one else. You can keep digging that hole if you want to, but it's just going to keep getting deeper.
For someone who is as obsessed as you are with maintaining credibility you sure seem bent on destroying what little you have.
It's sad really.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 12, 2007, 05:07:59 PM
Here again Cindy is what we have. What you have is pure nonsense.
Here's the first year:
Out of 52,000,000 public school kids 16 were killed in school
Translating to 1 out of every 3,250,000 kids being killed.
Out of those 52,000,000 6 committed suicide while in school.
Translating to 1 out of 8,666,667 kids killing themselves.
Of those same 52,000,000 kids 2140 were killed outside of school.
Translating to 1 out of every 24,300 kids being killed.
Of those same 52,000,000 public school kids 1928 kids committed suicide outside of school.
Translating to roughly 1 out of every 27,000 kids committing suicide.
Out of 20,000 kids in the private theraputic sector so far we have 7 who were killed by staff members.
Translating to 1 out of every 2,857 kids being murdered by staff.
Of those same 20,000 kids 2 committed suicide.
Translating to 1 out of every 10,000 committing suicide.
This is of course for only one year June of 1999-July 2000
Post by: RobertBruce on February 12, 2007, 05:09:01 PM
In the public sector out of 52,000,000 kids 2059 were killed outside of school, roughly translating to:
1 out of every 25,255 kids being killed outside of school.
Of those same 52,000,000 1,890 committed suicide outside of school.
Translating to roughly
1 out of every 27,513 kids committing suicide outside of school.
In school out of 52,000,000 17 kids were killed. Translating to:
1 out of every 3,058,824 kids being killed in school.
Of those same 52,000,000 5 kids committed suicide while in school.
Translating to:
1 out of every 10,400,000 kids killing themselves while in school.
In the Private Theraputic Sector out of 20,000 kids 6 kids were killed by staff members, translating to:
1 out of every 3,334 kids being killed by staff members.
Of those same 20,000 kids 1 committed suicide, translating to:
1 out of every 20,000 kids killing themselves
Post by: RobertBruce on February 12, 2007, 05:09:42 PM
Out of 52,000,000 kids in the public sector 17 were killed while in school.
Translating to:
1 out of every 3,058,824 kids being murdered while in school
Out of those same 52,000,000 kids in the public sector 5 committed suicide while in school.
Translating to:
1 out of every 10,400,000 kids killing themselves while in public school.
Of those same 52,000,000 2,036 were killed in the public sector.
Translating to:
1 out of every 25540 kids being killed
Of those same 52,000,000 kids 1,772 kids committed suicide.
Translating to
1 out of every 29345 kids in the public sector killing themselves
In the private theraputic sector out of 20,000 kids 2 were murdered by staff members.
Translating to:
1 out of every 10,000 kids being murdered by staff members.
Of those same 20,000 kids in the private theraputic sector 1 committed suicide.
Translating to:
1 out of every 20,000 kids killing themselves.
At least its an improvement over the previous years I guess.
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindica ... le_1.1.asp (http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindicators/crimeindicators2005/Indicators.asp?PubPageNumber=1&ShowTablePage=TablesHTML/table_1.1.asp)
Post by: TheWho on February 12, 2007, 05:19:42 PM
When providing me with data you tried to slip this person thru who was never even near a TBS in her life:
Candace Newmaker
10 years old
4/18/2000
, so your credibility really is in question here and needs to be scrutinized if you are making assumptions to prove a point.
I am just presenting base line data from known sources. No assumptions are being made at this point.
Post by: Troll Control on February 12, 2007, 05:24:51 PM
Quote
Quote:
TheWho wrote:
"forget HLA, try helping more of the kids and their parents"
The response:
Quote
I'm not sure how I can help the parents and kids at HLA more by ignoring the fact that they have been defrauded and horribly abused, respectively.
Can you help me understand how forgetting about child abuse helps it go away?
this is a good question. why won't you answer it, who? i noticed rather than answer for your comment, you changed the subject (again). can you answer the question? how does ignoring child abuse help kids?
Post by: psy on February 12, 2007, 05:25:34 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""psy""Don't know why i bother:
http://http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/INMEMORIAM.html
see those dead kids. yes. those ones.
My response to Milk was in defense of the TBS data I am collecting, I dont question your data only poss the question. I will stay out of your thread as requested.
Thank you for respecting my request. I apologize for telling you to fuck off.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 12, 2007, 05:32:00 PM
Quote
Bob, fairly simple: The results you present are based on assumptions and that is fine as long as you back up where your numbers come from. (for example where did you get the bases of your assumption of 20,000 children?) All these numbers need to be clear.
You are correct. The number 20,000 was given as a rough estimate as to how many kids were locked up in the PTS. It was agreed upon at a secret meeting a number of us attended at the Newark Hilton. Punch was served. If you have another number I'd be more than willing to add it to a seperate spread sheet and include it in later data.
Quote
When providing me with data you tried to slip this person thru who was never even near a TBS in her life:
Candace Newmaker
10 years old
4/18/2000
Please provide the link to the post in which I claimed this girl was at a TBS.
I'll wait.
Quote
so your credibility really is in question here and needs to be scrutinized if you are making assumptions to prove a point.
Is it now? Hmmmm, so by that rationale any "assumptions" you had made would then lower your credibility yes? You let me know if you want to stick with that argument Cindy. I'm assuming you won't because youre a cry baby and hate to be proven wrong.
Quote
I am just presenting base line data from known sources. No assumptions are being made at this point.
Oh but there you're wrong Cindy. You've assumed numerous times that the deaths committed in the PTS were brought before criminal courts and judges ruled them as accidents or other non homicides.
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 08:38:16 AM
Quote
You are correct. The number 20,000 was given as a rough estimate as to how many kids were locked up in the PTS. It was agreed upon at a secret meeting a number of us attended at the Newark Hilton. Punch was served. If you have another number I'd be more than willing to add it to a seperate spread sheet and include it in later data.
What I typically suggest to people prior to presenting any results is to put an asterisk after the data which may need clarification or where some assumptions were made so the reader can understand where the data has come from or based upon.
Maybe something like this * - This is a rough estimate as too how many kids are locked up and is based on a consensus taken at a secret meeting on such and such a date?
Something along that line
Quote
Please provide the link to the post in which I claimed this girl was at a TBS.
As I was collecting data for the July1, 1999 thru June 2000 time period, you provided me with several data points which did not fit and Candace Newmaker was one?.. about halfway down the page.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=244162#244162 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=244162#244162)
If this girl is being used in your data set I would clarify that she was at a private home at the time receiving attachment therapy by a nurse?..this was way outside my established boundary conditions and it is not clear what your conditions are and whether or not she fits into your set.
Quote
Oh but there you're wrong Cindy. You've assumed numerous times that the deaths committed in the PTS were brought before criminal courts and judges ruled them as accidents or other non homicides
If you feel I was unjust in my review of the data just ask. If you have a name you feel should be in my list throw it on the table and lets take a look at it. I believe I used the same rules of acceptance that the NCES used.
Post by: Troll Control on February 13, 2007, 08:42:41 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
QuoteQuote:
TheWho wrote:
"forget HLA, try helping more of the kids and their parents"
The response:QuoteI'm not sure how I can help the parents and kids at HLA more by ignoring the fact that they have been defrauded and horribly abused, respectively.
Can you help me understand how forgetting about child abuse helps it go away?
this is a good question. why won't you answer it, who? i noticed rather than answer for your comment, you changed the subject (again). can you answer the question? how does ignoring child abuse help kids?
answer, please, who.
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 09:33:16 AM
Quote
this is a good question. why won't you answer it, who? i noticed rather than answer for your comment, you changed the subject (again). can you answer the question? how does ignoring child abuse help kids?
answer, please, who.
Ignoring any problem doesn?t make it go away, especially child abuse. If you believe the problem is focused on one or a couple of schools then great, state that and focus on the problem. If you feel the entire industry is abusive then focus on the entire industry.
Shutting one school down is like pulling a dandelion after it has seeded or not getting the root (root cause) many more will spring up else where. This is very ineffective and doesn?t do the kids any good. If one believes the system is abusive then y0u need to identify and attack the root cause of the problem (seed the entire lawn as you will). Work on making it more difficult to open up new schools or work with the states/government to insist in minimum standards or work to enforce over sight etc.. But spending ones entire professional career trying to close one school smacks of personal agenda, time could be much better spent elsewhere if the children?s safety truly where the top concern.
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2007, 09:36:59 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
time could be much better spent elsewhere
Making fortunes for the owners?
Quote
if the children?s safety truly where the top concern.
Which we all known is not. We do agree on this.
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 09:42:42 AM
Quote
Making fortunes for the owners?I don?t think that would be his next choice?.
Quote
Which we all known is not. We do agree on this.
I disagree; I think he believes shutting down HLA will help the kids, but I believe the drive is personal. I personally dont think it is time well spent in the larger picture.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 10:42:49 AM
Quote
What I typically suggest to people prior to presenting any results is to put an asterisk after the data which may need clarification or where some assumptions were made so the reader can understand where the data has come from or based upon.
Maybe something like this * - This is a rough estimate as too how many kids are locked up and is based on a consensus taken at a secret meeting on such and such a date?
Something along that line
But Cindy, you're posts are chock full of assumptions. Where are your asterisk's?
Quote
As I was collecting data for the July1, 1999 thru June 2000 time period, you provided me with several data points which did not fit and Candace Newmaker was one?.. about halfway down the page.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=244162#244162 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=244162#244162)
I provided you with several data points that fit, they just dont go along with your agenda. You still seem to be under the impression that you can dictate the terms of conversations on here Cindy. Despite any imaginary debates you might have had the truth is you set your own rules and then expect others to follow them. Sorry Cindy, it just doesnt work that way.
As it stands though you still havent answered the question. I asked you to provide a link to a post in which I claimed Candance was at a TBS.
I'm still waiting on you to do that.
Quote
If this girl is being used in your data set I would clarify that she was at a private home at the time receiving attachment therapy by a nurse?..this was way outside my established boundary conditions and it is not clear what your conditions are and whether or not she fits into your set.
See this would be another example of you needing to spin data. She was in the private home of an unlicensed theraputic nurse who was an employee of a theraputic institute for children. The parents paid the institute not the nurse as some sort of private contractor as you are attempting to make her appear to be. Because the services were provided by a private theraputic institute it belongs in the PTS. Whether you agree with this or not in inconsequential.
Quote
If you feel I was unjust in my review of the data just ask. If you have a name you feel should be in my list throw it on the table and lets take a look at it. I believe I used the same rules of acceptance that the NCES used.
You mean you assumed you used the same rules of acceptance that the NCES used. The reality is you don't know, nor are you interested in finding out. To respond to your comment though I see no reason to rehash data that's already been established. All of the names on my list belong on the list, your acceptance is not required or needed, simply because my list is more accurate than yours. As to new data I will present any names that should be included and they will be. Again your acceptance is not needed, you have repeatedly shown yourself to be pushing your agenda and uninterested in learning the truth.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 10:50:31 AM
Quote
Ignoring any problem doesn?t make it go away, especially child abuse. If you believe the problem is focused on one or a couple of schools then great, state that and focus on the problem. If you feel the entire industry is abusive then focus on the entire industry.
Shutting one school down is like pulling a dandelion after it has seeded or not getting the root (root cause) many more will spring up else where. This is very ineffective and doesn?t do the kids any good. If one believes the system is abusive then y0u need to identify and attack the root cause of the problem (seed the entire lawn as you will). Work on making it more difficult to open up new schools or work with the states/government to insist in minimum standards or work to enforce over sight etc.. But spending ones entire professional career trying to close one school smacks of personal agenda, time could be much better spent elsewhere if the children?s safety truly where the top concern.
Perhaps you're uninformed so I'll take it upon myself to educate you. Without naming names I can tell you with absolute certainty that several posters on fornits were the sole driving force behind forcing HLA to apply for licensure as a theraputic boarding school. These people were the only reason this occured. Having done so should HLA remain open it will inevitably be a safer place for it. This is the first one of these places in the country to be forced to apply for licensure without new legislation having been passed. This sets a new precedent that will have ramifications throughout the country.
Now what have you done to make these kids safer?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 10:51:22 AM
Quote
I disagree; I think he believes shutting down HLA will help the kids, but I believe the drive is personal. I personally dont think it is time well spent in the larger picture.
Again you assume. Where was your asterisk this time Cindy?
Post by: Troll Control on February 13, 2007, 10:58:23 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteMaking fortunes for the owners?I don?t think that would be his next choice?.QuoteWhich we all known is not. We do agree on this.
I disagree; I think he believes shutting down HLA will help the kids, but I believe the drive is personal. I personally dont think it is time well spent in the larger picture.
If you're talking about my motives, you're, once again (surprise!) wholly incorrect.
Shutting down HLA will stop kids from being actively abused and future kids from suffering the same fate. HLA is, in fact, abusive and fraudulent - these facts are already proven. What "value" does HLA "add" to the families they rip off and abuse?
BTW, HLA is only one program I have researched and that has been objectively determined to be abusive and I am actively engaged in shutting down these other facilities as well as working with oversight agencies and local/state/federal governments to reform a very rotten, corrupt industry - HLA is only one piece.
Of course my desire to see children removed from abusive situations is personal. What else could or would it be? However, your assumption that I need to "get back at HLA" or that I am "disgruntled" are, of course, just made up by you so that you can try to bolster your own untenable position by trying to discredit everyone who has shown that you are terribly misguided and ignorant (which is everyone other than you yourself).
The facts are that I was treated very well at HLA. I was given nice raises and promotions. All I had to do to keep that money coming and keep my job stress free was to look the other way while HLA abused children in their care, hired phony clinicians with diploma mill degrees, neglected all aspects of the kids' education and defrauded the families. Now, Who, I know that because you are motivated solely by profit, this will be lost on you, but for anyone else reading, I was bound by an ethics code to first do no harm and to provide the best possible care in the least restrictive environment. I'm not sure that you are able to process what "ethics" are though, Who - you lack scruples of any kind.
So, what were my choices? One, look the other way and ignore child abuse, as the Who has recommends, or two, first resign, then report any and all ethical/professional violations to the proper authorities so that the children would be protected from abuse and neglect.
Again, Who, please help me to understand how stopping active child abuse is the wrong thing to do and why I should "forget" about childrens' suffering in the name of 'helping kids and parents.' Maybe it's just me, but I don't understand your thinking.
And, let me reiterate for anyone coming late to the thread, TheWho knows absolutely nothing about my particulars, my career or me personally, so all he's doing is trying to paint me (and anyone else who may interfere with unfettered profiteering from child abuse and neglect) as some kind of crackpot with an agenda. He's got one part right - we do have an agenda, but it is the most sane, pure and rational agenda that anyone could possibly have: to stop the wholesale abuse of children. What's wrong with that?
Let me also remind readers that TheWho has no education whatsoever in Psychology or Social Work and has no business delving into the arena of mental health care, even though he will present himself as some sort of authority (his only experience comes from locking up his own daughter in an abusive, level-system, LGAT facility called ASR - after which his daughter immediately returned to her "old behaviors" and "old friends" and stopped talking to him for two years - he still says it 'saved her').
Just letting you know who you're dealing with, folks.
Post by: Ganja on February 13, 2007, 11:12:31 AM
Such a waste of time & energy.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 11:16:53 AM
Cindy keeps coming because he's crazy enough and stupid enough to believe he's right. I say let him come.
After being owned so many times his delusions will only stretch so far.
Trust me he'll be gone soon.
Post by: Ganja on February 13, 2007, 11:29:11 AM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Cindy keeps coming because he's crazy enough and stupid enough to believe he's right. I say let him come.
After being owned so many times his delusions will only stretch so far.
Trust me he'll be gone soon.
Conversely, I see him continuing to type on incessantly until one of you dies or something... :rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2007, 11:33:34 AM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 11:33:40 AM
My feeling is that Cindy is the kind of person who has to be right and has to win all the time.
When he finally realizes he can't, he'll leave and pretend none of this ever happened.
Post by: Ganja on February 13, 2007, 11:35:30 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Is anybody here actually "licensed" in the fields they profess to be so knowlegeable in?
No, because I'm not yet fully legal in the country I reside in.
Post by: Troll Control on February 13, 2007, 11:36:47 AM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""Cindy keeps coming because he's crazy enough and stupid enough to believe he's right. I say let him come.Conversely, I see him continuing to type on incessantly until one of you dies or something... :rofl:
After being owned so many times his delusions will only stretch so far.
Trust me he'll be gone soon.
I think this is the more accurate assessment. He's sitting there at home, unshaven, in a bathrobe, glued to his workstation waiting for someone to post so he can respond. This is why his thread has 15,000 views - he checks it compulsively all hours of the day and night. It truly is a sickness.
Remember back when TheWho was insisting that everyone else had no life due to their time spent here, even going so far as to "prove" that I have no life because I was "closing in on 2000 posts." TheWho now is closing in on 2000 posts - proof positive that he indeed has no life... :roll:
Whatever, though. This thread is entitled "TheWho" so why not talk about him here, in his personal monument to his own inefficacy and inadequacy?
Post by: Ganja on February 13, 2007, 11:37:46 AM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
I don't think so although we can hope.
My feeling is that Cindy is the kind of person who has to be right and has to win all the time.
When he finally realizes he can't, he'll leave and pretend none of this ever happened.
But the thing is, RB, is that you too are that kind of person (not that there's anything wrong with that).
Maybe you two should take a nice skiing trip together or something. :lol:
Post by: psy on February 13, 2007, 11:38:17 AM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
Robert has been saying every day for weeks now the Who is on the run and he is still here.
Reminds me of a certain president.
ma fella fornitscators, The who.. is in his.. last throes... in other words... he is on the run... victory is close... ma fella fornitscators. we will not let the terrist Osama bin Who win! it's just gonna take a little mar taam ma fella fornitscators.. jis trus me on this. okay...
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2007, 11:40:56 AM
Post by: Ganja on February 13, 2007, 11:43:44 AM
I don't know if you're a Letterman fan or not (i love watching it from time to time) but he's had a pretty funny bit on there lately called, "Great Moments in Presidential Speeches." ::bwahaha::
http://www.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/ (http://www.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/)
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2007, 11:44:13 AM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Remember back when TheWho was insisting that everyone else had no life due to their time spent here, even going so far as to "prove" that I have no life because I was "closing in on 2000 posts."
Well I don't know about you losers, but I make all my posts from a wifi enabled PDA I use on the beach here in the Caribbean, surrounded by beautiful woman and colorful drinks, bullshitting the day away.
I know a lot of you though, have no lives and post from your stinky, sock filled mothers bedroom. Unlike me, I post while on my intercontinental jet setting trips to meet exotic beautiful sexy woman around the world. My job is porn director. Now, back to my work, my life and everything great that does not involve fornits.
Losers. :roll:
Post by: Ganja on February 13, 2007, 11:45:03 AM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
Doesn't fucking matter what yall are thinking this shit with the Who will accomplish really. The fact is HE is accomplishing nothing. You are accomplishing nothing by proving he is accomplishing nothing. We all know he is full of shit. He knows he is full of shit.
But you fellows are making his shit have value. Everytime you attack or defend you empower his bullshit.
DON'T feed the Troll.
There are to many better topics to discuss than this fucktarded crap.
Right the fuck on!
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 11:45:22 AM
Quote
But the thing is, RB, is that you too are that kind of person (not that there's anything wrong with that).
Maybe you two should take a nice skiing trip together or something.
I'm thinking about it, there are some great slopes near me, and I do love spending time with him. As far as me being right all the time or always winning, I don't care about either. I can handle being wrong or losing. Neither signals the end of the world. In this instance however I'm right and he's wrong. I take issue with him spewing off his bullshit and pretending its a fact, plus I find him hilarious. Until he quits or dies I'm just going to keep going in circles with him, proving him wrong at every turn. Believe me he's going to give up sooner than you think.
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2007, 11:45:58 AM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
Doesn't fucking matter what yall are thinking this shit with the Who will accomplish really. The fact is HE is accomplishing nothing. You are accomplishing nothing by proving he is accomplishing nothing. We all know he is full of shit. He knows he is full of shit.
But you fellows are making his shit have value. Everytime you attack or defend you empower his bullshit.
DON'T feed the Troll.
There are to many better topics to discuss than this fucktarded crap.
You can't pick and choose the trolls you want to feed just because some are more entertaining than others... the feeding bin has been out for a while at fornits.
Post by: Ganja on February 13, 2007, 11:49:46 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""Remember back when TheWho was insisting that everyone else had no life due to their time spent here, even going so far as to "prove" that I have no life because I was "closing in on 2000 posts."
Well I don't know about you losers, but I make all my posts from a wifi enabled PDA I use on the beach here in the Caribbean, surrounded by beautiful woman and colorful drinks, bullshitting the day away.
I know a lot of you though, have no lives and post from your stinky, sock filled mothers bedroom. Unlike me, I post while on my intercontinental jet setting trips to meet exotic beautiful sexy woman around the world. My job is porn director. Now, back to my work, my life and everything great that does not involve fornits.
Losers. :roll:
I'll bet you can get some pretty good blow, can't you?
Hiring any male flight attendants?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 11:53:09 AM
Cindy however believes his own bullshit. If uninformed parents come on here and find his ramblings they might just believe it. By responding to it and proving him wrong we take steps to ensure that doesnt happen.
I don't think he should simply be ignored.
Post by: Ganja on February 13, 2007, 11:57:21 AM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Here's the thing though, Cindy still doesnt strike me as a troll. The reason being most trolls do what they do to try and disrupt things or simply because they think its funny. When people no longer laugh they usually go away or change tactics.
Cindy however believes his own bullshit. If uninformed parents come on here and find his ramblings they might just believe it. By responding to it and proving him wrong we take steps to ensure that doesnt happen.
I don't think he should simply be ignored.
A troll is a troll is a troll. You're right, if Who is who he claims to be, then he does not really live up to the definition of a troll unless you want to consider that he could be trolling on another (unseen to many) level in which he functions as a decoy (some tsw & i had touched on at different points in this thread) or someone to keep us involved with refuting nonsensical facts and figures while some thug is standing behind you with a baseball bat..
EDIT: If it could be limited to this thread, that'd be cool.
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2007, 11:58:50 AM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
Sure you can. Just ignore the ones you can't be bothered with and entertain the ones you can be bothered with.
Feed bin or not we are all intelligent enough adults to know how to make that choice.
Well of course, YOU can ignore him. I have been pretty much for the occasional troll and joke, but my point is that EVERYONE is not going to heed your warning.
How many posters here do you think were happy to see you engage KareninDallas? Or JNZMOM (an obvious fake), or others who you defend and others(me) say we should stop engaging.
That's all my point is.. I am with you. Lets ignore theWho. I just don't see it happening, is all I am saying.
All I am saying, is give peace a chance... that chant is now stuck in my head.
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2007, 12:06:32 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""Guest""I'll bet you can get some pretty good blow, can't you?Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""Remember back when TheWho was insisting that everyone else had no life due to their time spent here, even going so far as to "prove" that I have no life because I was "closing in on 2000 posts."
Well I don't know about you losers, but I make all my posts from a wifi enabled PDA I use on the beach here in the Caribbean, surrounded by beautiful woman and colorful drinks, bullshitting the day away.
I know a lot of you though, have no lives and post from your stinky, sock filled mothers bedroom. Unlike me, I post while on my intercontinental jet setting trips to meet exotic beautiful sexy woman around the world. My job is porn director. Now, back to my work, my life and everything great that does not involve fornits.
Losers. :roll:
Hiring any male flight attendants?
As long as you are sexually open and adventurous, sure. Meet us at LAX terminal 420 this friday night at 8PM, we'll pick you up on our way to Monaco. Regular people have never even tried real blow, that shit on the street you think is cocaine is just a decoy... I'll show you the rich people's blow that is kept secret.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 12:14:31 PM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
Maybe I'm not being clear enough here. I WANT you Robert Bruce to ignore him.I'm don't give a shit what other people do. For that matter since you haven't been appointed anyone else's keeper you shouldn't be concerned what they do or don't do about the Who Either. You are giving him way to much attention. As you are the one engaging him almost nonstop in every single thread he posts to.
Try it for 2 weeks. You never know what happens. Might take up a new hobby or something insane of that nature.
I hear where youre coming from, but like I said I find him hilarious, besides I've got nothing better to do at work.
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2007, 12:17:21 PM
Post by: Troll Control on February 13, 2007, 12:18:21 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2007, 12:23:06 PM
There is a demand for programmies on this forum. When they post they get more attention than anyone. A program survivor posts a five page long, heartfelt story about their experience, it drops off the front page in two days.
In contrast, a crazed parent posts about considering program, and it gets 100 posts the first day. A parent who actually sent their kid away posts, and the place goes nuts.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 12:48:39 PM
Quote
You are telling me you have no way to fill your time meaningfully?
I call bullshit.
With how many kids locked up in captivity by TBS programs this just happens to be the best thing you can do with your time?
All I'll say to that is that I remain very active in working towards bringing about action against these places. One in particular.
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2007, 01:15:58 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I am alive.
There is a demand for programmies on this forum. When they post they get more attention than anyone. A program survivor posts a five page long, heartfelt story about their experience, it drops off the front page in two days.
In contrast, a crazed parent posts about considering program, and it gets 100 posts the first day. A parent who actually sent their kid away posts, and the place goes nuts.
Easy to explain.
The survivor stories are generally uncommentable because what the hell can you say? There is nothing that can do it justice. Any variant of "that must have been horrible" comes off as retarded, "we're going to shut that place down" smacks of arrogance (unless Fornits members really are shutting that place down), and anything else isn't exactly welcome.
The parent who is considering one of these hellholes needs to be addressed immediately, to prevent them sending his or her kid. Doesn't matter how stupid the parent in question happens to be, from simply unknowing to genuinely demented.
And most of us Organized Malcontents love making verbal soup of retarded programmies. It's fun and subconsciously rewarding.
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 02:51:16 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteI disagree; I think he believes shutting down HLA will help the kids, but I believe the drive is personal. I personally dont think it is time well spent in the larger picture.
Again you assume. Where was your asterisk this time Cindy?
That?s a good point, Bob. The rule I usually use is if we are working inside of a table format with numbers I don?t encourage anyone to try to explain any anomalies or clarify the data right there in the table. It takes away from the presentation quality and makes it hard to decipher sometimes. Its okay to do, you just need to be careful you don?t redirect the focus away from what you are trying to say with the data. So that being said, I suggest using the asterisk when elaborating in tables and not using them in straight dialog.
For example, If I say ? I am assuming you checked with your boss first before leaving early?. There is no need for an asterisk to explain your assumption.
Hope that helps
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 02:54:26 PM
Quote
I'm thinking about it, there are some great slopes near me, and I do love spending time with him. As far as me being right all the time or always winning, I don't care about either. I can handle being wrong or losing. Neither signals the end of the world. In this instance however I'm right and he's wrong. I take issue with him spewing off his bullshit and pretending its a fact, plus I find him hilarious. Until he quits or dies I'm just going to keep going in circles with him, proving him wrong at every turn. Believe me he's going to give up sooner than you think.
Bob, classic post?.this is going into my top 10?. ?I don?t care about being right or wrong?? but in this instance however I'm right??Bob don?t ever go away. Helping kids may not be one of your strengths but posting inspirational prose here on fornits definitely suits you (and all of us), I think you found your niche.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 03:20:18 PM
As to my comments yes it's true I am willing to put aside my own interests for the sake of proving you wrong. It's a sacrifice I know, but one I'm willing to make.
Quote
Helping kids may not be one of your strengths but posting inspirational prose here on fornits definitely suits you (and all of us), I think you found your niche.
I'm glad you take my posts to heart, if we could just cut through your cloud of delusion we'd really be getting somewhere. You do however bring up an interesting point. You claim my helping kids isnt one of my strengths, yet I've already proven that I have in fact helped these kids, in a very real and direct way, much more than you ever have or ever could do. I know that reading comprehension isnt one of your strengths, but that aside I'm curious; What have you done to help these kids?
Get back to me on that Cindy. Oh and I'm still waiting on you to post the link to my stating that Candace Newmaker was in a TBS. See if you can't handle that.
Post by: Troll Control on February 13, 2007, 03:23:19 PM
Just one more to add to the list of kids saved by PREVENTING their placement at a BM warehouse...
Quote
A formerly distressed, nearly conned parent said:
Steve -
First, please allow me to thank you for you prompt response. I have been so pleasantly surprised at the number of people who have written me. There are truly angels among us....
The therapists at my son's rehab facility (Sundown Ranch) in Canton, TX are recommending a TBS very strongly. Their first rec has been DA. My gut has been telling me this is not good. My former husband is really pushing to follow their recommendation. This is all very strange as he is an attorney and questions everything. He has gone so far as to threaten legal action to comply with the recommendations from the Sundwon Ranch counselors.
My son has indicated quite strongly that he does not want to go to a TBS. The word on the street at his rehab facility is much what I have read when you get past the glossy websites. He also feels that he cannot return home due to triggers he feels will be present around our nieghborhood. Whether this has been instilled at him during his tenure at Sundown or whether he truly believes it is a question I cannot answer.
To that end, I am investigating a small Benedictine boarding school about 80 miles from my home. The community is rich with resources that I think would be beneficial to his continued recovery. In addition, he can visit with some degree of regularity his local therapist whom he adores. And, he would be close enough to see his family.
So that is my plan to date. Please let me know what you think and where there are holes.
Thank you in advance for your assistance and concern with this. I greatly appreciate it....
Best,
*******
See, Who, you're so God-awful ignorant about what I and others do that you would have people believe we do no good, "add no value" and "don't help kids." It is only your ignorance and arrogance that generate statements like this.
Chalk up one more for the good guys...
Thanks to everyone else for helping this wonderful but confused and anxiety-ridden parent. After speaking with her by telephone today she related to me that she is "disgusted" by the information she has found while researching the TBS industry and will do "whatever (she) can to help you all go after these people who prey on us and our children."
Not only is her kid spared horrible abuse, but we now have another dedicated, resourceful person to help us bring an end to institutionalized child abuse.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 03:24:12 PM
Quote
That?s a good point, Bob. The rule I usually use is if we are working inside of a table format with numbers I don?t encourage anyone to try to explain any anomalies or clarify the data right there in the table. It takes away from the presentation quality and makes it hard to decipher sometimes. Its okay to do, you just need to be careful you don?t redirect the focus away from what you are trying to say with the data. So that being said, I suggest using the asterisk when elaborating in tables and not using them in straight dialog.
For example, If I say ? I am assuming you checked with your boss first before leaving early?. There is no need for an asterisk to explain your assumption.
Hope that helps
So youre saying its okay to assume sometimes, but not if it interfers with your agenda. I understand your position perfectly Cindy, thank you.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 03:27:07 PM
Quote
See, Who, you're so God-awful ignorant about what I and others do that you would have people believe we do no good, "add no value" and "don't help kids." It is only your ignorance and arrogance that generate statements like this.
Chalk up one more for the good guys...
Thanks to everyone else for helping this wonderful but confused and anxiety-ridden parent. After speaking with her by telephone today she related to me that she is "disgusted" by the information she has found while researching the TBS industry and will do "whatever (she) can to help you all go after these people who prey on us and our children."
Not only is her kid spared horrible abuse, but we now have another dedicated, resourceful person to help us bring an end to institutionalized child abuse.
Awww shit Cindy another paying customer lost. Well.....I won't tell your boss if you won't.
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 03:27:41 PM
Quote
Get back to me on that Cindy. Oh and I'm still waiting on you to post the link to my stating that Candace Newmaker was in a TBS. See if you can't handle that.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=244162#244162 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=244162#244162)
look about halfway down the page, it is listed with other names you provided me....
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 03:29:28 PM
I'm looking for you to post a comment I made that states that Candance Newmaker was in a TBS. The comment you keep refering to is me listing her as a death within the PTS.
Do you understand now?
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 03:31:19 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteThat?s a good point, Bob. The rule I usually use is if we are working inside of a table format with numbers I don?t encourage anyone to try to explain any anomalies or clarify the data right there in the table. It takes away from the presentation quality and makes it hard to decipher sometimes. Its okay to do, you just need to be careful you don?t redirect the focus away from what you are trying to say with the data. So that being said, I suggest using the asterisk when elaborating in tables and not using them in straight dialog.
For example, If I say ? I am assuming you checked with your boss first before leaving early?. There is no need for an asterisk to explain your assumption.
Hope that helps
So youre saying its okay to assume sometimes, but not if it interfers with your agenda. I understand your position perfectly Cindy, thank you.
Yes, Bob, I guess that is how you read it....Ha,Ha,Ha, So comprehension isnt your strong point either. Dont take it personally, I have some guys that work for me that dont get it, but yeah if you see it as my agenda its okay, to each is own.....
Post by: Troll Control on February 13, 2007, 03:32:11 PM
Quote
Do you understand now?
:D :) :lol: :P :rofl:
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 03:37:24 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Yes Cindy you've posted that link once before remember?
I'm looking for you to post a comment I made that states that Candance Newmaker was in a TBS. The comment you keep refering to is me listing her as a death within the PTS.
Do you understand now?
Okay, lets take this slow.... I was looking for TBS data and asked if you had any that fit the data set...... G..o.........t..o.........t...h...e........l...i..n...k......a...n...d.. .......c...l...i...c...k
.. ....o...n..i...t..............g....o......h...a...l...f......w....a...y........d..o...w..n.... . t...h..e.....p..a..g..e........a..n..d......y..o..u.....w..i..l..l.......s...e..e......
w..h...a...t.....y..o..u......p...r...o...v...i...d...e..d.........u..s.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=244162#244162 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=244162#244162)
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 03:42:51 PM
Quote
Yes, Bob, I guess that is how you read it....Ha,Ha,Ha, So comprehension isnt your strong point either. Dont take it personally, I have some guys that work for me that dont get it, but yeah if you see it as my agenda its okay, to each is own.....
Oh no Cindy I got what you were trying to say, it's a message you've stuck with since the moment you arrived. Your philosphy being standards should only apply when they work in your favor, never against you. My reading comprehension skills are fantastic Cindy, if you need help though there's no shame in asking for it.
As to the guys you have working for you having trouble, that's what happens when you employ illegal aliens Cindy. Perhaps you should try hiring some Americans the next time, not only will you not have that pesky INS (another form of regulation that Cindy believes unnessecary as it creates too much "paperwork") bothering you, but your employees are much more likely to speak English. Then other than when you spout off your paraniod delusions or ridiculus assertions, everyone will understand you! :D
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 03:46:36 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
QuoteDo you understand now?
:D :) :lol: :P :rofl:
Yes I do: I keep some of my old messages too
Some feedback I have received:
Thewho, thank you for leading me to ASR a few months back. My son was really out of control and is doing much better now. Our relationship has started to turn the corner and is getting better??.
TheWho, I didnt expect to get that type of advice on fornits?. I was lucky to see your posts?just wanted to say thanks from myself and my family.
Who, hang in there?.if it wasn?t for you we would have put our kid back into public school and who knows where she would be today?.thanks again for the advice.
Post by: Troll Control on February 13, 2007, 03:50:49 PM
I knew there was a commercial reason for TheWho's being here. Just had to wait for him to admit it! Thanks!
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2007, 03:52:54 PM
You still suck at fiction, Who. Back to eighth grade with you!
(http://http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/DoNotFeedTroll.png)
DJ, if you believe those messages of its were real, would you perchance be interested in a civil architecture purchase? There's this large, water-spanning edifice I'd like you to consider putting on layaway...
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 03:56:34 PM
Quote
Okay, lets take this slow.... I was looking for TBS data and asked if you had any that fit the data set...... G..o.........t..o.........t...h...e........l...i..n...k......a...n...d.. .......c...l...i...c...k
.. .... o...n.. i...t..............g....o......h...a...l...f......w....a...y........d..o...w..n
..... t...h..e.....p..a..g..e........a..n..d......y..o..u.....w..i..l..l.......s...e..e
......w..h...a...t.....y..o..u......p...r...o...v...i...d...e..d.........u..s.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=244162#244162 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=244162#244162)
Is something wrong with your keyboard Cindy? You might want to get that checked out. In response to your comment though perhaps you really should look into getting some help with things reading wise. Maybe Sylvan can help? You're never too old Cindy. I'll see if I can find the name of the company I did my SAT prep through, perhaps they can be of some sort of assistiance to you. You've got to try something because despite the fact that you've been told many many times you still for some reason arent getting it. I realize you have limitations and you belong in a padded room but I still expect something from you Cindy.
Let me try again. You still seem to be under the impression that you can dictate the terms of the conversation. You can't. I don't know how to make that simple concept any clearer for you. Any terms or conditions you set amount to absolute nothing. You want to limit the scope to your definition of TBS's because it helps your agenda. As it stands however I'm not interested in helping your agenda, I'm too focused on actually helping kids. For that reason I have included deaths throughout the private theraputic sector. Something Miss Newmaker was in when she was murdered.
Post by: Troll Control on February 13, 2007, 04:08:28 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
:rofl:
You still suck at fiction, Who. Back to eighth grade with you!
(http://http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/DoNotFeedTroll.png)
DJ, if you believe those messages of its were real, would you perchance be interested in a civil architecture purchase? There's this large, water-spanning edifice I'd like you to consider putting on layaway...
Either way. he's either a phony or collecting referral fees. You choose...
Hey, I'm not sure if you've read any news from NYC, but the city actually did sell a bridge recently to a private individual for $1 under the condition that the bridge be hauled away by the buyer (it was a "barge bridge"). He bought it and sailed it down the Hudson to its final resting place. Interesting anyway.
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 04:11:42 PM
If you are including kids who died in the private homes of nurses during attachment therapy the readers of the data need to know that. If they are seeking attachment therapy this is very important...if they are seeking a wilderness or TBS it doesnt help them at all and only serves to muddy the data.
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 04:14:46 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty"":rofl:
You still suck at fiction, Who. Back to eighth grade with you!
(http://http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/DoNotFeedTroll.png)
DJ, if you believe those messages of its were real, would you perchance be interested in a civil architecture purchase? There's this large, water-spanning edifice I'd like you to consider putting on layaway...
Either way. he's either a phony or collecting referral fees. You choose...
Hey, I'm not sure if you've read any news from NYC, but the city actually did sell a bridge recently to a private individual for $1 under the condition that the bridge be hauled away by the buyer (it was a "barge bridge"). He bought it and sailed it down the Hudson to its final resting place. Interesting anyway.
I'll go with the fees any day.... If I could get $500 for each positive feed back I received I would be doing okay and consider signing up.
Post by: Troll Control on February 13, 2007, 04:39:21 PM
Quote
We were all wondering where the heck you were going with all this....
The voices again? Try doubling your Zyprexa (and check your blood sugar if you do!).
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 04:39:31 PM
This is not a conclusion but merely an observation.
So, I am simply comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data to present to date
:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides [/b](NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: Troll Control on February 13, 2007, 04:56:11 PM
Outside TheWho's head:-----There was one voice
Inside TheWho's head:-----There were several voices
Of the "Inside" Voices: One told TheWho to eat lead paint, One told TheWho to refer to ASR, Two told TheWho "Nobody's better than you!" and an undefined cacophony of several told TheWho to wear a diaper and watch "Mommy Dearest" seven times a day.***
***Dataset still open
So, what we have so far is one seriously demented psych patient rambling on about data.
Post by: Troll Control on February 13, 2007, 04:59:40 PM
Quote
The Who wrote:
"So I am simple"
Truer words were never spoken... :rofl:
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 05:03:53 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
QuoteThe Who wrote:
"So I am simple"
Truer words were never spoken... :rofl:
Ha,Ha,Ha,..... good catch..I didnt see that...Freudian slip?
Post by: Troll Control on February 13, 2007, 05:11:54 PM
No, not a freudian slip. A Freudian slip is "When you say one thing, but you meant your mother."
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 05:19:53 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Really? You reposted the same statement about 20 times.
No, not a freudian slip. A Freudian slip is "When you say one thing, but you meant your mother."
Here is the definition I use:
A Freudian slip, or parapraxis, is an error in speech, memory or physical action that is believed to be caused by the unconscious mind.
Post by: Troll Control on February 13, 2007, 05:29:17 PM
Whatever.
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 06:10:11 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
By "I use" you mean "that I just looked up in Dictionary.com." :roll:
Whatever.
no,no here is what I am refering to: It doesnt have to refer to ones mother, here is a famous slip:
"In his own acceptance speech [following the 2004 presidential election], George Bush made yet another quip about how he can't speak English. What little humor the line had was lost a few days later when he defended requesting $87 billion to spend in Iraq and Afghanistan on 'armor and body parts' - possibly the most gruesome Freudian slip in history."
Post by: Deborah on February 13, 2007, 06:19:38 PM
Post by: Troll Control on February 13, 2007, 06:20:29 PM
Good catch.
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2007, 06:38:19 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
I'm thinking of starting a thread listing kids who have suicided post program. Whadda ya think?
I think they ought to consider who they can take with them first.
Post by: Ganja on February 13, 2007, 07:46:05 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
Quote from: ""Deborah""I'm thinking of starting a thread listing kids who have suicided post program. Whadda ya think?
I think they ought to consider who they can take with them first.
Yes indeed. ::hehehmm:: ::stab:: ::both:: :skull: :wave:
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 07:56:09 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
I'm thinking of starting a thread listing kids who have suicided post program. Whadda ya think?
That would be great! I would support that, If fornits could better categorize the data and expose the problem areas it would really go a long way in sending a message out, i.e. wilderness, post wilderness, TBS, post TBS, boot camp, RTC, Mental hospitals etc.
You are in a much better position than I am, Deborah, in tapping the resources and pulling the data together. If I could be of any value let me know and I will help where I can, otherwise I think it is a great idea.
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 08:08:55 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
OK, credit where credit's due: that is an absolutely disgusting slip by President Chimpy.
Good catch.
Yeah, people I talked to overseas love to bring that up, wish we could just fast forward to '08 and get the likes of someone like Obama Barack in there, its just so friggin wrong and embarrassing to have a president like this and have to stand to political correctness and be patriotic in public.
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2007, 08:28:37 PM
Post by: FLCLcowdude on February 13, 2007, 08:29:28 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I think Guantanamo helps a lot of Jihadist. If Bush had not saved them from the Jihad, they would have blown themselves up and be dead. Because of Bush, they are alive and in a nice place like Cuba where the sun shines all day long. Guantanamo saves lives, both the suicide bomber and it's intended victims. We need more Guantanamos.
I really hope this is sarcasm...
I can never really tell anymore.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 09:50:58 PM
Quote
Yeah, people I talked to overseas love to bring that up, wish we could just fast forward to '08 and get the likes of someone like Obama Barack in there
Before I address any of your other nonsense I wanted to first point out this little nugget. You do know that his name is Barack Obama not Obama Barack correct?
Please tell me you know the correct name of the man before you start supporting him for President.
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 13, 2007, 09:57:40 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Deborah""I'm thinking of starting a thread listing kids who have suicided post program. Whadda ya think?
That would be great! I would support that, If fornits could better categorize the data and expose the problem areas it would really go a long way in sending a message out, i.e. wilderness, post wilderness, TBS, post TBS, boot camp, RTC, Mental hospitals etc.
You are in a much better position than I am, Deborah, in tapping the resources and pulling the data together. If I could be of any value let me know and I will help where I can, otherwise I think it is a great idea.
It's all a single category of "arbitrary non-diagnostic non-quantifiable regression/suffering based programs with various guises to act as vehicles for and obfuscate what they do - isolate, stress, indoctrinate".
Aka "duckfarms".
A program that takes a kid into the woods to make him suffer is hardly different from a program taht keeps a kid locked up to make him suffer. It all boils down to "you are a bad kid, you will suffer until we say otherwise, do what we say or you'll suffer even more".
Its bullshit, its since been debunked, and even if it had not, the burden of proof would be on the programs to prove it works and justify their being held incommunicado and being "treated" involuntarily!
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 10:06:01 PM
Quote
Thank you for clearing that up, Bob. So you finally looked at what happened to her and realize she doesnt fit my data set of TBS's.
Oh Cindy I've known all along she doesn't fit into your data set. I simply don't care. I've made this point clear to you on several occasions, you just still somehow just can't grasp it. Your data is nonsense, you purposely exclude data because you know it proves your point wrong. No one looking for objective or honest information is going to pay any attention to what youre presenting Cindy.
Quote
We were all wondering where the heck you were going with all this....
There's that "we" again. Who exactly is "we" Cindy? I realize youve got a whole phonebooks worth of people in your head right now but are any of the people you include as "we" actually real?
Quote
If you are including kids who died in the private homes of nurses during attachment therapy the readers of the data need to know that
There's that spin again Cindy. It's sad that you feel you have to do that just to try and prove your point. The girl died in the home of an employee of a theraputic institute. A theraputic institute that was contacted for services to be rendered. The location of where the girl died makes no difference, she was still in the PTS. Your attempting to paint it otherwise accomplishes nothing, people can see the truth for themselves, but if it makes you feel better spin away.
Quote
If they are seeking attachment therapy this is very important...if they are seeking a wilderness or TBS it doesnt help them at all and only serves to muddy the data.
And if they are seeking all the pertinant information concerning options for their troubled teens than your information is useless! :D
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 10:07:30 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteYeah, people I talked to overseas love to bring that up, wish we could just fast forward to '08 and get the likes of someone like Obama Barack in there
Before I address any of your other nonsense I wanted to first point out this little nugget. You do know that his name is Barack Obama not Obama Barack correct?
Please tell me you know the correct name of the man before you start supporting him for President.
Actually if you want to get technical its "Barak Hussein Obama"......
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 10:10:42 PM
Since I've got you here Cindy any chance on you answering that question regarding how you feel you've helped these kids in any meaningfull way?
Also still wondering who "we" is.
Post by: Ganja on February 13, 2007, 10:16:38 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 10:19:47 PM
Quote
Oh Cindy I've known all along?..I simply don't care??.There's that "we" again?..Oh so you've heard about google then Cindy?......Who exactly is "we" Cindy?........ There's that spin again Cindy??And if they are seeking all the pertinant information concerning options for their troubled teens than your information is useless!......
Bob, first of all calm down, you can use any data you want? use an asterisk or don?t use one, it doesn?t matter to any of us. Your data is great!! We love it!! It adds meaning to our lives and we want you to continue and start working on the next year. Parents are utilizing it to make decisions?it is obvious that it is helping kids all over. I have received calls asking when you will be coming out with your next revision!!!
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 10:21:35 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
No, it's Borat Obama.
Ha,Ha,Ha,...thats funny !!
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 10:24:31 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Well, we are not in the analysis phase yet but it appears the presence of suicides in the TBS environment has abated. Not sure of any assignment of root cause. But either the schools have become more effective at helping these children or they are doing a better job of screening for signs of clinical depression and other high risk factors which can lead to suicide.
This is not a conclusion but merely an observation.
So, I am simply comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data to present to date
:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides [/b](NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
Here are the actual numbers which Cindy claims to be using as his source.
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindica ... le_1.1.asp (http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindicators/crimeindicators2005/Indicators.asp?PubPageNumber=1&ShowTablePage=TablesHTML/table_1.1.asp)
Somehow they don't match.
Post by: Ganja on February 13, 2007, 10:25:14 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Ganja""No, it's Borat Obama.
Ha,Ha,Ha,...thats funny !!
:rofl: :rofl:
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 10:26:26 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Aha?come on DJ?tell us how you really feel?data is only as good as the source ?. I have collected mine from NCES and court decisions and links and data received here on fornits?..I am sorry the data doesn?t support your opinions. They are only hard numbers at this point. I am trying to be as clear as possible......I am not claiming the data to be representing the entire industry, just TBS's:
Here take a look what I have so far:
I am attempting to change the layout (so bear with me) to facilitate easier comparison from year to year and clarify where the source data comes from. Here is a first cut.
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data to present
:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,053 Homicides and 1,777 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. (No data accumulated as of today)*
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
* - Data found here on fornits, internet new articles, posts and PM?s
And somehow it doesnt match up with his earlier numbers either.
What happened Cindy?
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 10:36:14 PM
The NCES Revised their numbers in 2006......
Here check out the latest link:
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindica ... e_01_1.asp (http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindicators/table_01_1.asp)
So I am simply comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data to present to date
:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides [/b](NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
* - Data found here on fornits, internet new articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 10:41:41 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteOh Cindy I've known all along?..I simply don't care??.There's that "we" again?..Oh so you've heard about google then Cindy?......Who exactly is "we" Cindy?........ There's that spin again Cindy??And if they are seeking all the pertinant information concerning options for their troubled teens than your information is useless!......
Bob, first of all calm down, you can use any data you want? use an asterisk or don?t use one, it doesn?t matter to any of us. Your data is great!! We love it!! It adds meaning to our lives and we want you to continue and start working on the next year. Parents are utilizing it to make decisions?it is obvious that it is helping kids all over. I have received calls asking when you will be coming out with your next revision!!!
Oh wow. As a means of attempting to spin things even further you've gone so far as to edit my statements? Cindy I take each statement you make and respond to them one at a time, shooting down each and every one. You on the other hand apparently have to sort through multiple posts and mesh them into some sort of disjointed ramblings, all because youre obsessed with winning an argument you lost long ago. Give it up Cindy.
Let me give you an example of how a rational adult who isnt obsessed with winning or being right would address your post.
Quote
Bob, first of all calm down, you can use any data you want?
I know Cindy, but I unlike you prefer to stick with the truth. I'm also very calm, although I'm not sure you are. You may want to take another break. Maybe a little longer this time.
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use an asterisk or don?t use one, it doesn?t matter to any of us.
Who is "us"?
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Your data is great!!
I would use the term honest but you may call it whatever you like, I give you permission.
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We love it!!
Who is "we"?
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It adds meaning to our lives and we want you to continue and start working on the next year.
Again who is "we"? Also why would this add value to your lives since it goes against your agenda and pay check?
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Parents are utilizing it to make decisions?it is obvious that it is helping kids all over.
I know. Something you've never done.
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I have received calls asking when you will be coming out with your next revision!
My next revision? Cindy I dont need to revise the data, I get it right the first time. Something you apparently judging by the above posts are having some trouble with. I am curious though, do these phone calls come from real people or imagined? If they are real how did these random people get your phone number?
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2007, 10:42:10 PM
NecroTech syringes must be cheap these days.
Post by: Deborah on February 13, 2007, 10:43:39 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
A program that takes a kid into the woods to make him suffer is hardly different from a program taht keeps a kid locked up to make him suffer. It all boils down to "you are a bad kid, you will suffer until we say otherwise, do what we say or you'll suffer even more".
Its bullshit, its since been debunked, and even if it had not, the burden of proof would be on the programs to prove it works and justify their being held incommunicado and being "treated" involuntarily!
Niles,
Take a deep breath and head to the Aspen forum. SUWS is now being marketed as treatment for Aspergers.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 10:56:36 PM
Quote
Bob you are a mess, you are all over the map.
Am I? I'm just responding to whatever nonsense you through out there so I guess that would suggest by your logic that it is in fact you who are the mess. Clean yourself up.
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Focus on one thing at a time
I'm focused on whatever nonsense you put out there, if you cant keep up then I suggest you slow down.
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and try to calm down
Cindy Ive explained to you I am calm. Or havent you noticed that it is you on the defensive?
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.... I have explained this over and over to you.
Yes youve babbled on about many things Cindy, but since you change your mind so much I've given up hope on you remaining consistent.
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I want you to look at the NCES latest reports.
Ive looked at them Cindy, many many times. Apparently closer than you have.
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This is why your data is screwed up and unreliable.
My data has included all the deaths related to the discussion and has remained consistent since I began collecting it. Yours on the other hand changes at the drop of a hat apparently. Not something people will consider reliable at all Cindy.
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We love your effort but your data just isnt reliable
There's that "we" again Cindy. When are you going to accept that people in your head just don't count. As to my data well again you've been told that your opinion doesnt matter. My data appears reliable to the people who need it. I'm wondering though did a different personality take over since your last post?
I mean here the last person controlling Cindy had this to say:
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Parents are utilizing it to make decisions?it is obvious that it is helping kids all over.
Now its a different tune, is this just another example of your inconsistency or should I start calling you Cybil instead of Cindy?
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please try to keep up:
Cindy I was done with the first two sets days ago. Youre the only one holding up the class because youre having to go back and redo everything.
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The NCES Revised their numbers in 2006......
Here check out the latest link:
So the NCES changed all their numbers? Which ones are accurate?
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 11:00:24 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
So you're saying that they revived five hundred kids per year (and every kid in the TBS murdered by staff, apparently)?
NecroTech syringes must be cheap these days.
No not cheap at all, lactose, although, it was announced this morning that Necro Tech buildings had some of their NecroNet terminals activated, and now it is possible to manufacture revive syringes there??? even if they are dirt cheap it would be a waste because Most of them had brain rot and it would be a waste of syringe anyway.
Post by: TheWho on February 13, 2007, 11:06:24 PM
Quote
So the NCES changed all their numbers? Which ones are accurate?
Ha,Ha,Ha... They are all accurate and I am not going to give you the answer this time (Do your homework). Read the web site, review the data. If you are using it to support your assumptions you should understand it intimately before utilizing it...otherwise you are not helping anyone and just fooling yourself...
Let me know when you figure it out...
Post by: RobertBruce on February 13, 2007, 11:08:59 PM
The information is unreliable.
No need for you to cite it further.
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 14, 2007, 12:51:07 AM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""A program that takes a kid into the woods to make him suffer is hardly different from a program taht keeps a kid locked up to make him suffer. It all boils down to "you are a bad kid, you will suffer until we say otherwise, do what we say or you'll suffer even more".
Its bullshit, its since been debunked, and even if it had not, the burden of proof would be on the programs to prove it works and justify their being held incommunicado and being "treated" involuntarily!
Niles,
Take a deep breath and head to the Aspen forum. SUWS is now being marketed as treatment for Aspergers.
What. The. FUCK.
I need to go build a catapult to launch actual PhD's on the SUWS "campus" or something... naturally packed with paracutes of course.
SUWS is in NC, right? I should call up a old friend of mine, DOCTOR Neeley...
Post by: Troll Control on February 14, 2007, 08:39:22 AM
Post by: Troll Control on February 14, 2007, 08:45:24 AM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
From the period between when TheWho's mother whelped him and today:
Outside TheWho's head:-----There was one voice
Inside TheWho's head:-----There were several voices
Of the "Inside" Voices: One told TheWho to eat lead paint, One told TheWho to refer to ASR, Two told TheWho "Nobody's better than you!" and an undefined cacophony of several told TheWho to wear a diaper and watch "Mommy Dearest" seven times a day.***
***Dataset still open
So, what we have so far is one seriously demented psych patient rambling on about data.
Post by: Ganja on February 14, 2007, 09:12:56 AM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""TheWho"":rofl: :rofl:Quote from: ""Ganja""No, it's Borat Obama.
Ha,Ha,Ha,...thats funny !!
I think I'll use this as a band name!
Borat Obama... I like it!
Post by: TheWho on February 14, 2007, 10:04:23 AM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""Ganja""I think I'll use this as a band name!Quote from: ""TheWho"":rofl: :rofl:Quote from: ""Ganja""No, it's Borat Obama.
Ha,Ha,Ha,...thats funny !!
Borat Obama... I like it!
You should find a good avatar for him.
Post by: Ganja on February 14, 2007, 10:08:31 AM
Post by: TheWho on February 14, 2007, 10:18:10 AM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Borat or Obama?
Obama's face wearing Borats bathing suit or carrying his suitcase....Ha,Ha,.
Post by: Deborah on February 14, 2007, 12:38:28 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
So I am simply comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
No you're not. You (ya'll?) have no idea what you're doing. If you had any inkling, you'd be using data from the CDC. NCES data, if accurate is only for deaths during school hours.
You're wasting people's time and Ginger's bandwidth with your ignorant shinanigans. Wish she'd delete all the flooding (multiple postings ad naseum of the same information).
Post by: TheWho on February 14, 2007, 01:03:26 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""So I am simply comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
No you're not. You (ya'll?) have no idea what you're doing. If you had any inkling, you'd be using data from the CDC. NCES data, if accurate is only for deaths during school hours.
You're wasting people's time and Ginger's bandwidth with your ignorant shinanigans. Wish she'd delete all the flooding (multiple postings ad naseum of the same information).
You should read it, Deborah, the data is for at school and away from school (CDC data). I will add a note indicating the data comes from CDC also and provide a link for those who are interested.
Source:
Data on homicides and suicides of youth ages 5-18 at school and total school-associated violent deaths are from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), 1992?2005 School-Associated Violent Deaths Surveillance Study (SAVD), partially funded by the U.S. Department of Education, Office of Safe and Drug-Free Schools, previously unpublished tabulation (May 2006); data on total suicides of youth ages 5-18 are from the CDC, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System Fatal (WISQARS(tm) Fatal) 1999-2003, retrieved July 2006 from http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars; (http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars;) and data on total homicides of youth ages 5-18 for the 1992?93 through 2003?04 school years are from the Supplementary Homicide Reports (SHR) collected by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and tabulated by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, preliminary data (July 2006).
Post by: RobertBruce on February 14, 2007, 01:30:55 PM
Any chance youre feeling a little braver today?
Post by: TheWho on February 14, 2007, 01:32:57 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Cindy there are still a number of questions floating around out there that so far youve been to scared to answer.
Any chance youre feeling a little braver today?
Sure, I never pass on an honest question, there have been a ton of posts lately, go ahead....
Post by: TheWho on February 14, 2007, 01:45:14 PM
I do thank you for pointing it out, it seems you dont work well in a group situation. I have asked for peoples input and am willing to help if you want to expand into post TBS reporting as you mentioned, but y0u need to understand that collecting data can be a tedious and ever evolving task and updates are to be expected. If you see anything else that may assist in clarifying the data, please let me know
Here take a look at this and see if it better clarifies the sources:
So I am simply comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data to present to date
:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides [/b](NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet new articles, posts and PM?s
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God Dammit, you've got to be kind!
--Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. "God Bless You Mr. Rosewater:"
Post by: RobertBruce on February 14, 2007, 02:08:19 PM
Quote
Sure, I never pass on an honest question, there have been a ton of posts lately, go ahead....
Are you lying or just being delusional again? These questions have been up for days.
1. If these kids were not killed by staff members how did they die?
2. If you had a child in your care and he died in the same manner as some of these other kids would you likely be charged with anything?
3. Do you find it odd that of all the deaths that occur in the private theraputic sector charges are seldom brought?
4. If someone was hurt or killed in your factory would you deal with in the same manner these places deal with the deaths that occur in their premises?
5. Who is the "we" and "us" you continue to refer to in your postings?
6.Since you claim that public schools don't have staff members who runs them?
7. What have you done specifically that has helped these kids in a direct way?
Post by: Ganja on February 14, 2007, 02:27:18 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
1. If these kids were not killed by staff members how did they die?
2. If you had a child in your care and he died in the same manner as some of these other kids would you likely be charged with anything?
3. Do you find it odd that of all the deaths that occur in the private theraputic sector charges are seldom brought?
4. If someone was hurt or killed in your factory would you deal with in the same manner these places deal with the deaths that occur in their premises?
5. Who is the "we" and "us" you continue to refer to in your postings?
6.Since you claim that public schools don't have staff members who runs them?
7. What have you done specifically that has helped these kids in a direct way?
1. Maybe they died of boredom.
2. Probably.
3. I don't find this odd at all, so long as the right ppl are greased.
4. Hell no, I'd give them a pair of cement shoes.
5. Maybe he's referring to Daltrey & Townsend.
6. Corrupt bureaucrats.
7. Turned the kid on to some WEED.
Post by: TheWho on February 14, 2007, 02:49:33 PM
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1. If these kids were not killed by staff members how did they die?
I guess if they were not killed by staff members it must have been someone else.
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2. If you had a child in your care and he died in the same manner as some of these other kids would you likely be charged with anything?
In some cases, yes and others no, I am not really set up to watch kids. There are many different scenarios
Quote
3. Do you find it odd that of all the deaths that occur in the private theraputic sector charges are seldom brought?
No, the public sector may see the same thing, but I really don?t know. I would have to look at each case and I am not an expert.
Quote
4. If someone was hurt or killed in your factory would you deal with in the same manner these places deal with the deaths that occur in their premises?
Probably follow what ever procedures are in place. If we had in-house personnel we would utilize them first and then call in the authorities (911) if it was beyond what we could handle
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5. Who is the "we" and "us" you continue to refer to in your postings?
A group of concerned parents, I cant really give names?.
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6.Since you claim that public schools don't have staff members who runs them?
Principle, principles staff, admins, teachers, counselors etc. I would consider them staff. If I said otherwise I correct it here.
Quote
7. What have you done specifically that has helped these kids in a direct way?
Well to name a few:
I have donated to local causes which help kids directly and indirectly.
I have worked with kids directly to get them help.
I have worked with parents in my area and on fornits to get kids headed in the right direction.
I am working on collecting data which will hopefully expose the areas which are harmful and areas which are not harmful to kids.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 14, 2007, 03:12:11 PM
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I guess if they were not killed by staff members it must have been someone else.
Who then? And why werent they brought up on charges?
Quote
In some cases, yes and others no, I am not really set up to watch kids. There are many different scenarios
Such as? What would be one such scenario in which you would be brought up on charges?
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No, the public sector may see the same thing, but I really don?t know. I would have to look at each case and I am not an expert.
Fine. Lets look at the kid who was sat upon by the 300lbs asst. counselor at Eckert. Should he have been brought up on charges?
Quote
Probably follow what ever procedures are in place. If we had in-house personnel we would utilize them first and then call in the authorities (911) if it was beyond what we could handle
I didnt ask you how you would handle it I asked you if you would handle it in the same manner as they do.
Quote
A group of concerned parents, I cant really give names?.
Concerned about what? Are they posters here on fornits? If so why dont they come to your defense? If not why are you posting the information on here babbeling on when no one buys what youre selling? Wouldnt it be easier if you simply did the research on your own and then presented it to these "concerned parents" so you can reinforce your agenda? All of which could easily be done off of fornits. Not that it matters I personally dont believe you, and I dont think many others will either.
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Principle, principles staff, admins, teachers, counselors etc. I would consider them staff. If I said otherwise I correct it here.
Fair enough.
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I have donated to local causes which help kids directly and indirectly.
Most people have, that has nothing to do however with these kids.
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I have worked with kids directly to get them help.
Again so have most people, this again has nothing to do with these kids.
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I have worked with parents in my area and on fornits to get kids headed in the right direction.
In what you perceive to be the right direction you mean. No garruntee that it is the right direction by any means.
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I am working on collecting data which will hopefully expose the areas which are harmful and areas which are not harmful to kids.
Well youre doing a terrible job of it I've got to tell you. All youve managed to do so far is dismiss the deaths of kids that dont go along with your agenda.
Post by: TheWho on February 14, 2007, 03:34:53 PM
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Who then? And why werent they brought up on charges?
Not sure, I don?t know these people personally or followed their case.
Quote
Such as? What would be one such scenario in which you would be brought up on charges?
If I shot someone while they were tied up and submitted a video of it to the police.
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Fine. Lets look at the kid who was sat upon by the 300lbs asst. counselor at Eckert. Should he have been brought up on charges?
No, I think the nutritionist should be charged for feeding the asst. too much?.remember this is America.
Quote
I didnt ask you how you would handle it I asked you if you would handle it in the same manner as they do.
Of course not, I am not the owner of the school or have the same resources they do. I would handle it differently. If I had a school I would utilize the established procedures set up for that instance if none existed I would go with what I knew to be best for the child.
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Concerned about what? Are they posters here on fornits? If so why dont they come to your defense? If not why are you posting the information on here babbeling on when no one buys what youre selling? Wouldnt it be easier if you simply did the research on your own and then presented it to these "concerned parents" so you can reinforce your agenda? All of which could easily be done off of fornits. Not that it matters I personally dont believe you, and I dont think many others will either.
The Kids
Some
Some do
Because I think I can help some of these kids
No, I think others could benefit too
That?s okay
Quote
Most people have, that has nothing to do however with these kids.I disagree
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Again so have most people, this again has nothing to do with these kids.Yes it does
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In what you perceive to be the right direction you mean. No garruntee that it is the right direction by any means.
Agreed, no guarantees either way.
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Well youre doing a terrible job of it I've got to tell you. All youve managed to do so far is dismiss the deaths of kids that dont go along with your agenda.
Well, considering the source, I take that as a pat on the back. Thanks. What you call dismiss, I call not fitting the parameters. Eventually they will be counted when we get to their category.
Post by: Ganja on February 14, 2007, 03:40:24 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
No, I think the nutritionist should be charged for feeding the asst. too much?.remember this is America.
:rofl:
Post by: Deborah on February 14, 2007, 04:51:06 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
You should read it, Deborah, the data is for at school and away from school (CDC data). I will add a note indicating the data comes from CDC also and provide a link for those who are interested.
I have read it, and there is a discrepency between the numbers provided by NCES and CDC.
http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/leadcaus10.html (http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/leadcaus10.html)
See what you get.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 14, 2007, 05:00:57 PM
Quote
Not sure, I don?t know these people personally or followed their case.
So you dont know how these kids died or who killed them but youre sure they dont count? Wow Cindy you sure do seem thorough.
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If I shot someone while they were tied up and submitted a video of it to the police.
Again youre deflecting the question. I asked you if you would be brought up on charges if a child in your care died in a manner similar to how these kids died. To my knowledge none of the kids who have died in the PTS died as a result of being shot. Most of them were restrained to death. Thats what Im asking you if you could get away with in the public sector.
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No, I think the nutritionist should be charged for feeding the asst. too much
You dont know if that place even had a nutritionist. Many of them do not. Even if it did however you bringing it up is simply an attempt to employ one of your red herrings. Don't get upset because I paint you into a corner with your own arguments. Stay calm and focus. Should the asst. counselor have been brought up on charges for killing the kid? Yes or no?
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?.remember this is America.
So....then we're free to kill children?
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Of course not, I am not the owner of the school or have the same resources they do. I would handle it differently. If I had a school I would utilize the established procedures set up for that instance if none existed I would go with what I knew to be best for the child.
Fair enough, with that in mind though do you believe that all of these owners have whats best for the child in mind?
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The Kids
Doubtful. Again all youve done so far is to dismiss their deaths and discount their experiences.
Quote
Some
Really where are they?
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Some do
They do? Where? Post the link. So far the only one Ive seen is CCM, who is a certifiable troll, and even she disappeared. No one seems to be in your camp Cindy.
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Because I think I can help some of these kids
Think it all you want Cindy, it doesnt make it so.
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No, I think others could benefit too
What others? Other brainwashed program devotees I suppose. Other than youre not going to find anything. Bear in mind that your data is inaccurate, incomplete, and misleading. Also keep in mind that youve changed your criteria multiple times, and changed your data. No one looking for an objective truth is going to give any creedence to your nonsense Cindy. Sorry but youve destroyed your own credibility.
Quote
That?s okay
Well so long as your okay with I guess thats all that really matters. As it stands though you cant seem to back up that these followers you have even exist. The predominant theory on the board currently is that youre insane and these people are all in your head. That seems to be the most likely.
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I disagree
Really? Explain to me then how giving to charity helps kids locked up in the PTS?
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Yes it does
Again explain to me how giving of your time helps kids locked up in the PTS?
Quote
Agreed, no guarantees either way.
Once again you're wrong. You seem to forget Cindy I was locked up in one of these places. I did suffer at the hands of it. I can guarantee that based off my own experiences and that of others that advising someone to go there is not the "right direction". I know what goes on in these places, you don't. Remember that.
Quote
Well, considering the source, I take that as a pat on the back. Thanks.
Youre welcome. Don't forget my data is accurate and doesnt exclude pertinant information. Yours is just a mess.
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What you call dismiss, I call not fitting the parameters.
Your parameters Cindy, no one elses. Recall I asked you how you were qualified to determine what information parents need and what information they dont need. As of yet youve been too afraid to answer that question.
Quote
Eventually they will be counted when we get to their category
No, today is fine.
Post by: TheWho on February 14, 2007, 05:16:33 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""You should read it, Deborah, the data is for at school and away from school (CDC data). I will add a note indicating the data comes from CDC also and provide a link for those who are interested.
I have read it, and there is a discrepency between the numbers provided by NCES and CDC.
http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/leadcaus10.html (http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/leadcaus10.html)
See what you get.
Yes, I did see this. 2 things contributed to the discrepancy. The age group formatting that the CDC offers in their web site doesn?t allow you to match the same as NCES. The CDC offers options (1-4, 5-9, 10-14, 15-24 etc.). The NCES covers the ages 5 thru 18. So the NCES probably asked for a custom report from the CDC.
Secondly, the reason my numbers were revised is that the NCES changed their parameters last year from (5 thru 19) to (5 thru 18), so the tables are different year to year depending on your search criteria (I hope they fix this soon). I revised my numbers a couple of days ago.
Post by: TheWho on February 14, 2007, 05:23:17 PM
Quote
Your parameters Cindy, no one elses. Recall I asked you how you were qualified to determine what information parents need and what information they dont need. As of yet youve been too afraid to answer that question.
My parameters and those of the NCES and CDC, yes..........Because I am a parent and a parent who has experienced a child in some of these situations and a child who went thru a TBS...
Post by: RobertBruce on February 14, 2007, 05:23:25 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 14, 2007, 05:26:19 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
So then again how can you be sure the data is reliable?
Good question. you are using it too.... you could ask the NCES and CDC for a reliability study or to clarify their process of collection. Thats one option.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 14, 2007, 05:39:30 PM
So I guess thats one more thing showing your data to to be inaccurate. Perhaps you could take some time and try and gather some accurate information and then return to the discussion. Until then its pretty pointless for you to continue.
Post by: TheWho on February 14, 2007, 05:43:06 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Or you could since you brought it up. The source of the information concerning the deaths in the PTS doesnt come from NCES or the CDC.
So I guess thats one more thing showing your data to to be inaccurate. Perhaps you could take some time and try and gather some accurate information and then return to the discussion. Until then its pretty pointless for you to continue.
Hmmm... Okay so you dont use NCES or CDC data in any of your reporting or tables? Interesting...
Post by: TheWho on February 14, 2007, 05:45:38 PM
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)
So I am simply comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 [/u]
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides [/b](NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet new articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: RobertBruce on February 14, 2007, 05:46:41 PM
Quote
My parameters and those of the NCES and CDC,
Well in reality you don't know what the parameters are, hence why you have to change your information. Add that to the fact that we've established the information to be inaccurate. I think we can toss that out without any further issue.
Quote
..........Because I am a parent and a parent who has experienced a child in some of these situations and a child who went thru a TBS...
None of these things in any way qualify you to determine what parents need or what information should be available to them. Its simply your own arrogance, stupidity and delusions that lead you to believe you somehow have the authority and wisdom to determine what information parents deserve to have.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 14, 2007, 05:51:05 PM
Quote
Hmmm... Okay so you dont use NCES or CDC data in any of your reporting or tables? Interesting...
Funny....I didnt claim any such thing. I simply stated the data regarding the deaths in PTS's doesnt come from NCES or the CDC. Pay closer attention next time.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 14, 2007, 05:52:05 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
See, I utilize them for comparison purposes, I note it at the bottom. Thought you did too..sorry, my mistake
Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)
So I am simply comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 [/u]
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides [/b](NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet new articles, posts and PM?s
Cindy all you have to say is you're not sure. There's no shame in it really.
Post by: Deborah on February 14, 2007, 05:57:52 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""TheWho""You should read it, Deborah, the data is for at school and away from school (CDC data). I will add a note indicating the data comes from CDC also and provide a link for those who are interested.
I have read it, and there is a discrepency between the numbers provided by NCES and CDC.
http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/leadcaus10.html (http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/leadcaus10.html)
See what you get.
Yes, I did see this. 2 things contributed to the discrepancy. The age group formatting that the CDC offers in their web site doesn?t allow you to match the same as NCES. The CDC offers options (1-4, 5-9, 10-14, 15-24 etc.). The NCES covers the ages 5 thru 18. So the NCES probably asked for a custom report from the CDC.
Inaccurate. You can search any age range at CDC. What you can't search for is June of one year to July of another year. CDC compiles data for each year Jan-Dec. I'd be interested to know how the NCES acquired data in that format.
And when the day's done. There are still 140+ dead kids who may still be alive if they hadn't received 'treatment'.
Post by: Ganja on February 14, 2007, 06:05:37 PM
Speaking of maintaining highs...... :lol: :smokin:
Post by: TheWho on February 14, 2007, 07:49:49 PM
Quote
Inaccurate. You can search any age range at CDC. What you can't search for is June of one year to July of another year. CDC compiles data for each year Jan-Dec. I'd be interested to know how the NCES acquired data in that format.
I know when we run reports and acquire data and our fiscal year doesn?t align properly with the data we are receiving from some of our suppliers or a few of our subsidiary companies, for various reasons (i.e. they have a different closing month than we do, they collect data with different parameters etc.) we ask for a custom report from them so we can submit it and keep our CPA's happy otherwise we get some of our math gurus to run an interpolation of the data to estimate the numbers as they would fit into our year.
Sorry this is long (and really boring to me also), but the point is that it is standard practice to footnote this interpolation at the end of your presentation and since this wasn?t done by NCES it is a good assumption that they received a custom report to suit their own parameters. Going any deeper would require us to be involved in their business decisions which I am sure they don?t have time nor any inclination to share with us.
I wouldn?t feel comfortable adding a footnote to my table indicating the NCES probably received a custom report or interpolated the data to suit their parameters, unless they released this information to me formally.
Quote
And when the day's done. There are still 140+ dead kids who may still be alive if they hadn't received 'treatment'.
That?s what we are here for! Lets find out where they are safe and where they are not and plug the holes, expose the places that put the kids in danger?..compiled data (as a start) goes a long way in digging out the problem areas.
Post by: Anonymous on February 14, 2007, 07:59:37 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 14, 2007, 08:07:15 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteHmmm... Okay so you dont use NCES or CDC data in any of your reporting or tables? Interesting...
Funny....I didnt claim any such thing. I simply stated the data regarding the deaths in PTS's doesnt come from NCES or the CDC. ....
Ha,Ha,Ha, okay Bob, Thanks, kind of a long around about way to get my answer. Just wanted to be clear you rely on the NCES data also......
Post by: TheWho on February 14, 2007, 08:11:24 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Wow, it seems TheWho can be "high maintenance" around here.
Speaking of maintaining highs...... :lol: :smokin:
That was "Blunt"
Post by: TheWho on February 14, 2007, 08:38:12 PM
So we are now looking at 5 years worth of data:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 [/u]
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides [/b](NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides [/b](NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet new articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: RobertBruce on February 14, 2007, 09:37:58 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 14, 2007, 09:40:26 PM
Quote
Ha,Ha,Ha, okay Bob, Thanks, kind of a long around about way to get my answer. Just wanted to be clear you rely on the NCES data also......
For what? I've already explained to you several times the deaths that you claim dont occur arent included in the data from the NCES or the CDC. As far as the numbers concerning the public sector, apparently theres so much discrepancy at this point no one can rely on the NCES or the CDC for accurate information regarding how many deaths occured.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 14, 2007, 09:47:00 PM
No ones bought it so far Cindy. What makes you think anything is going to change?
Post by: TheWho on February 15, 2007, 10:54:59 AM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
According to him there are no deaths to report. Then again he's a delusional idiot.
Havent seen any data coming from you Bob that meet the parameters, just critisism....thats what we call...Zero value added.
Post by: TheWho on February 15, 2007, 11:00:30 AM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteHa,Ha,Ha, okay Bob, Thanks, kind of a long around about way to get my answer. Just wanted to be clear you rely on the NCES data also......
For what? I've already explained to you several times the deaths that you claim dont occur arent included in the data from the NCES or the CDC. As far as the numbers concerning the public sector, apparently theres so much discrepancy at this point no one can rely on the NCES or the CDC for accurate information regarding how many deaths occured.
Thanks for another Classic Bobism... I am sure the CDC and NCES are sweating and worried Bob has just exposed them...lets see if they shut their website down now and go home....
Post by: TheWho on February 15, 2007, 11:03:08 AM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
I wonder Cindy, do you believe that by repeating the same nonsense over and over and over and over again you'll somehow finally get someone to believe it?
No ones bought it so far Cindy. What makes you think anything is going to change?
I typically only repost the data if someone asks me to or if the data set has been updated or revised.
Post by: Ganja on February 15, 2007, 11:06:06 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Thanks for another Classic Bobism.
Are there Karma/Dharma-like things in Bobisms?
Post by: Troll Control on February 15, 2007, 12:31:03 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""According to him there are no deaths to report. Then again he's a delusional idiot.
Havent seen any data coming from you Bob that meet the parameters, just critisism....thats what we call...Zero value added.
This entire thread adds no value to anything or anyone. It's just a bunch of nonsense iterated and reiterated by Who (and s/he has obviously no idea what s/he's talking about). Why not just repeat nursery rhymes for 115 pages? It adds the same value as what Who puts up here.
I also see that Who believes that criticism adds no value. Sounds like Bush to me. Dumb as a bag of rocks and stubborn as a mule. The notion that critical thought has no place and adds no value in debate is laughable and underscores Who's complete lack of education and understanding.
Time to move on to something that actually matters. This thread is 115 pages of utter garbage.
Post by: Anonymous on February 15, 2007, 12:32:24 PM
WITHOUT REPLIES, THE TROLL DIES.
Post by: Troll Control on February 15, 2007, 12:53:21 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Deborah wrote:QuoteInaccurate. You can search any age range at CDC. What you can't search for is June of one year to July of another year. CDC compiles data for each year Jan-Dec. I'd be interested to know how the NCES acquired data in that format.
I know when we run reports and acquire data and our fiscal year doesn?t align properly with the data we are receiving from some of our suppliers or a few of our subsidiary companies, for various reasons (i.e. they have a different closing month than we do, they collect data with different parameters etc.) we ask for a custom report from them so we can submit it and keep our CPA's happy otherwise we get some of our math gurus to run an interpolation of the data to estimate the numbers as they would fit into our year.
Sorry this is long (and really boring to me also), but the point is that it is standard practice to footnote this interpolation at the end of your presentation and since this wasn?t done by NCES it is a good assumption that they received a custom report to suit their own parameters. Going any deeper would require us to be involved in their business decisions which I am sure they don?t have time nor any inclination to share with us.
I wouldn?t feel comfortable adding a footnote to my table indicating the NCES probably received a custom report or interpolated the data to suit their parameters, unless they released this information to me formally.QuoteAnd when the day's done. There are still 140+ dead kids who may still be alive if they hadn't received 'treatment'.
That?s what we are here for! Lets find out where they are safe and where they are not and plug the holes, expose the places that put the kids in danger?..compiled data (as a start) goes a long way in digging out the problem areas.
I think you have a basic lack of understanding concerning data analysis. See, if you have "math guru's" they wouldn't use interpolation to project because interpolation means that the curve is set to fixed data points.
If you knew the tiniest bit about math or statistics, you would know that projection involves extrapolation, not interpolation. Better fire those "guru's" and fire yourself, too. Go hire someone who knows what they're doing, because you surely don't.
This leads me to believe what "Bob" was saying about your data collection. It's wrong and you don't understand that it's wrong or how to make it right.
It is amusing though how you attack other people for not "adding value," but what you have posted is completely valueless on its face, not to mention that you have no clue how to analyze it either. I simply discount everything you say because of this complete and utter absence of understanding, or even terminology, for that matter. Try sticking to stuff you know so you don't waste yours and everyone else's time with this type of bunk.
Post by: Ganja on February 15, 2007, 01:01:00 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
116, now.
WITHOUT REPLIES, THE TROLL DIES.
I second the motion to give TheWho a much needed vacation.
Post by: TheWho on February 15, 2007, 01:10:02 PM
Quote
I think you have a basic lack of understanding concerning data analysis. See, if you have "math guru's" they wouldn't use interpolation to project because interpolation means that the curve is set to fixed data points.
If you knew the tiniest bit about math or statistics, you would know that projection involves extrapolation, not interpolation. Better fire those "guru's" and fire yourself, too. Go hire someone who knows what they're doing, because you surely don't.
Read it again, we were trying to fill a gap, not project the future. When companies give us data that runs Feb thru Jan and we work to April thru March, we dont need to project or (Extrapolate) we need to interpolate their data to meet our time frame, we are not looking to predict the future....please read it again.
Post by: TheWho on February 15, 2007, 01:12:36 PM
Quote
This entire thread adds no value to anything or anyone. It's just a bunch of nonsense iterated and reiterated by Who (and s/he has obviously no idea what s/he's talking about). Why not just repeat nursery rhymes for 115 pages? It adds the same value as what Who puts up here.
I disagree I think it given many people a chance to sound off for and against many issues in the teen industry. There has been, I admit, many wasted posts on petty arguments, but I feel these people have a right to post also. It sounds like you are new here. There are many other threads that go on and on with seemly no reason, but they do serve a purpose to those posting there.
Quote
I also see that Who believes that criticism adds no value. Sounds like Bush to me. Dumb as a bag of rocks and stubborn as a mule. The notion that critical thought has no place and adds no value in debate is laughable and underscores Who's complete lack of education and understanding.
On the contrary, I think criticism has been one of the motivators here. We initially had some disagreement on whether TBS?s are safe or not and this drove a few of us to start pulling some numbers together. The table was constructed and input and criticism was what drove it to improve by adding references and double checking numbers etc.
I believe staying the course based on old or nonexistent data is being ?dumb as a bag of rocks? as you call it. Basing ones decision on experiences that occurred in the 1980?s and refusing to look at recent data is really short sighted and only serves to mislead the parents and in the long run hurt the children.
If parents knew you where basing you opinions and giving advice on places that existed 25-30 years ago, I think they would move on, y0u need to constantly update and take fresh looks from new perspectives and that is hopefully one thing that I am providing.
Quote
Time to move on to something that actually matters. This thread is 115 pages of utter garbage.
There are a few threads that I followed for awhile that went stale for me so I just stopped reading them. There isn?t any reason to read a thread you don?t like or have interest in, that?s why they have names so that you can chose the ones you like.
There are parents who come here for the first time and haven?t seen the data or discussion and I think for them it may be interesting. I have received some interesting feedback.
Post by: Troll Control on February 15, 2007, 01:14:44 PM
Quote
our math gurus to run an interpolation of the data to estimate the numbers as they would fit into our year.
Again, interpolation involves fixed data points, not estimations of data points. Fire your gurus and yourself.
Post by: TheWho on February 15, 2007, 01:20:14 PM
Quote
Better fire those "guru's"
Ha,Ha,Ha, you sound like my staff during an audit when half of them are trying to dance their way through explaining how the numbers apply to the business questions. The math ?Gurus? have no business sense ( I agree) so it is difficult to communicate with them sometimes on what we need which drives our staff nuts so we assign one person to do all the communication between the 2 departments. Most of the problems and discrepancies we have had were not due to the "Math gurus", as we call them, so firing one of them is few and far between, its usually my staff people who screw up.
Post by: TheWho on February 15, 2007, 01:26:31 PM
"Interpolation is a mathematical method of creating missing data."
Our fiscal year is say April thru March and we receive data from a subsidiary that works to a different time frame, maybe different hours or criteria and we need to fill in the blanks to meet our format. We ask the Gurus to interpolate the data for us to meet our format (or fill in the numbers)
We are not looking for predictions of future results.
Post by: Ganja on February 15, 2007, 01:41:38 PM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
Fellahs.. Seriously.. It ain't the who. Bob and friends need to back up and check themselves.
They do afterall keep feeding the troll.
That's what I'm saying.
Post by: TheWho on February 15, 2007, 02:31:19 PM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""Fellahs.. Seriously.. It ain't the who. Bob and friends need to back up and check themselves.That's what I'm saying.
They do afterall keep feeding the troll.
I need to agree with Ganja, I could get a ton more done here if I wasn?t pestered with questions that don?t apply to the subject matter. Let?s stay focused. I would appreciate it that if you don?t like the subject here to go Troll some other thread....
We are presently working the latest year, I have researched 63 names for this time period and have only received a handful from outside sources. If anyone can help fill in the blanks feel free to contribute, Here is where we stand:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 [/u]
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open, 63 names reviewed)*
TBS -- Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: Troll Control on February 15, 2007, 02:33:07 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Here I will make it easy for you:
"Interpolation is a mathematical method of creating missing data."
Our fiscal year is say April thru March and we receive data from a subsidiary that works to a different time frame, maybe different hours or criteria and we need to fill in the blanks to meet our format. We ask the Gurus to interpolate the data for us to meet our format (or fill in the numbers)
We are not looking for predictions of future results.
If you're trying to insult people by "making it easy" for them, at least provide the correct information.
Let me make it easy for you:
Interpolation is "the process of defining a function that takes on specified values at specified points."
Notice "specified values" and "specified points" are not "missing data." By definition, the data points are specified, not estimated. This is why you should stick to things you know, of which math, data and statistics do not belong. Fire yourself.
Post by: TheWho on February 15, 2007, 02:44:03 PM
Here is another definition for interpolation:
Filling in unknown values in a sequence by examining known values.
Post by: Troll Control on February 15, 2007, 02:50:41 PM
The definition you provided is not germane to statistics; it is the definition for interpolation as it relates to [/i]creating missing pixel data[/i] from a digital image. Now you're treading directly on my profession. The more you say, the more you destroy your own credibility. Fire yourself.
Post by: Troll Control on February 15, 2007, 02:55:15 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 15, 2007, 02:57:56 PM
http://www.investorwords.com/2573/interpolation.html (http://www.investorwords.com/2573/interpolation.html)
Post by: Troll Control on February 15, 2007, 03:28:59 PM
In statistics: Interpolation is the calculation of the value of a function between the values already known.
I'm pretty sure you don't know what a function is or how interpolation works, but, again, it only applies to known data points. Without known datapoints, interpolation isn't possible.
Notice that interpolation is used to calculate a function and not datapoints.
Once more, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Post by: Troll Control on February 15, 2007, 03:37:56 PM
Quote
"Interpolation is a mathematical method of creating missing data."
This is the definition you gave before you started backpeddling.
Note that this definition applies directly to, and only to, digital imaging whereby missing pixel values are determined by analyzing surrounding pixel data.
Reference for you:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls= ... n&ct=title (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-05,GGLD:en&defl=en&q=define:Interpolation&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title)
"Interpolation is a mathematical method of creating missing data. An image can be increased from 100 pixels to 200 pixels through interpolation. There are many methods of interpolation, but one simple method would be to generate a new pixel by using the average of the value of the two pixels on either side of the one to be created."
So, you took the definition directly from digital imaging because you don't know any better and are simply scrambling searching the internet for a definition that will "prove you right," i.e. that interpolation creates datapoints (which occurs ONLY in digital imaging). You're so obsessed with being right that you keep digging your credibility hole deeper and deeper. You're just making yourself look bad and destroying any believability about what you're doing with you data.
Once more, this is my profession. I know full well when someone doesn't know what they're saying, just like someone who speaks English knows when someone else is speaking a language other than English.
You're out of your league and over your head. It's best that you just admit you have no idea what you're talking about because anyone who does know what they're talking about knows that you don't
Post by: TheWho on February 15, 2007, 03:47:18 PM
Quote
Notice that interpolation is used to calculate a function and not datapoints.
Why is this so hard for you to understand? Yes it does use datapoints !! why are you arguing this? Ha,Ha,Ha. You say I am being critical but you keep coming back with the wrong information.
One more time:
Here is another look at it, a definition and a link for you:
In engineering and science one often has a number of data points, as obtained by Sampling or experiment, and tries to construct a function which closely fits those data points.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpolation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpolation)
Post by: Troll Control on February 15, 2007, 03:53:46 PM
You're just not very smart or you can't read. Not sure which.
You insisted that interpolation, as it relates to statistics, CREATES datapoints. This is not correct. You are not correct. No matter how many times you stamp your feet and cry, you are still WRONG.
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 15, 2007, 03:55:08 PM
However it is not a "REAL" datum as... it doesn't exist (or was not collected) if you have to interpolate it.
Post by: Troll Control on February 15, 2007, 03:57:41 PM
Quote
In engineering and science one often has a number of data points, as obtained by Sampling or experiment, and tries to construct a function which closely fits those data points.
Funny you mention this, because I happen to be an engineer. This is exactly what I told you earlier: interpolation is used to create a function, not a datapoint, as you have insisted.
So all you did was quaote what I already said and tried to say I didn't say it even though I said it verbatim. It also happens to directly contradict what you said - that interpolation creates datapoints.
Thanks for proving beyond doubt that you were and are wrong about this and that you cannot accept responsibility for being wrong, nor admit it. You've proven both of my points. One, you have no idea what you're talking about and two, you will say or do anything to avoid admitting it.
Post by: Troll Control on February 15, 2007, 04:00:38 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Estimation from interpolation is not the creation of data... unless you're getting really meta about it and saying that it is data generated from the interpolation function itself.
However it is not a "REAL" datum as... it doesn't exist (or was not collected) if you have to interpolate it.
Yes, Niles! You've grasped it on the first go-round! Neatly done.
Now why can't the self-described expert make this connection.
Interpolation creates a function which is in no way, shape or form data.
Precisely my point, precisely as I argued it. Now TheWho quotes me and says I'm arguing against myself. Brilliant chap. :roll:
Post by: Troll Control on February 15, 2007, 04:06:26 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quoteour math gurus to run an interpolation of the data to estimate the numbers as they would fit into our year.
Again, interpolation involves fixed data points, not estimations of data points. Fire your gurus and yourself.
My original quote saying that interpolation involves datapoints, but does not create them. This proves either you can't read, or you will tie yourself in knots to avoid saying you don't understand the topic.
Quote
Notice that interpolation is used to calculate a function and not datapoints.
I also said this.
Then you say this:
Quote
Why is this so hard for you to understand? Yes it does use datapoints !! why are you arguing this? Ha,Ha,Ha. You say I am being critical but you keep coming back with the wrong information.
I already said it USES datapoints, but CANNOT CREATE THEM.
You QUOTED me then proceeded to MISquote me in your idiotic response! Classic!
Post by: TheWho on February 15, 2007, 04:34:46 PM
"Filling in unknown values in a sequence by examining known values. " .......... Creating data points
Here, check out the definition we use:
http://www.investorwords.com/2573/interpolation.html (http://www.investorwords.com/2573/interpolation.html)
Post by: TheWho on February 15, 2007, 05:29:39 PM
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 [/u]
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open, 72 sources reviewed, mostly emails and news articles)*
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: Troll Control on February 15, 2007, 07:05:18 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Okay Bob, er I mean guest, I guess we could go round and round. Our guys create a function based on existing data to fit our needs (interpolate).....this is our application ... and it works well and the IRS and CPA types like the results of our interpolation.
"Filling in unknown values in a sequence by examining known values. " .......... Creating data points
Here, check out the definition we use:
http://www.investorwords.com/2573/interpolation.html (http://www.investorwords.com/2573/interpolation.html)
This is exactly wrong and exactly why I say you've no grasp of the subject matter. You don't understand the difference between data and assertions made thereabout.
What you describe cannot be, by definition, a datapoint. It is an artificially created conclusion drawn by a human being using mathematics to estimate a particular phenomenon in original, empiric data (interpolation).
This is the fundamental reason that illustrates that you simply do not comprehend the subject; the very premise of your argument is false, therefore any conclusion you draw from this premise is necessarily false as well. This is basic, introductory logic. You ne3d to take some classes.
Post by: Ganja on February 15, 2007, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
116, now.
WITHOUT REPLIES, THE TROLL DIES.
Still counting...
Post by: TheWho on February 15, 2007, 07:34:06 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Okay Bob, er I mean guest, I guess we could go round and round. Our guys create a function based on existing data to fit our needs (interpolate).....this is our application ... and it works well and the IRS and CPA types like the results of our interpolation.
"Filling in unknown values in a sequence by examining known values. " .......... Creating data points
Here, check out the definition we use:
http://www.investorwords.com/2573/interpolation.html (http://www.investorwords.com/2573/interpolation.html)
This is exactly wrong and exactly why I say you've no grasp of the subject matter. You don't understand the difference between data and assertions made thereabout.
What you describe cannot be, by definition, a datapoint. It is an artificially created conclusion drawn by a human being using mathematics to estimate a particular phenomenon in original, empiric data (interpolation).
This is the fundamental reason that illustrates that you simply do not comprehend the subject; the very premise of your argument is false, therefore any conclusion you draw from this premise is necessarily false as well. This is basic, introductory logic. You ne3d to take some classes.
Here let me try to explain this again, this is really basic stats, okay one more time:
In Origin, the interpolation and extrapolation operations allow you to add data points to your dataset where there once were no data points. Interpolation allows you to add new data points between pairs of existing data points, while extrapolation allows you to add data points that extend beyond the beginning or ending values of your data range.
We are filling in datapoints:
Here is another link for you:
http://www.originlab.com/index.aspx?s=8&lm=115&pid=81 (http://www.originlab.com/index.aspx?s=8&lm=115&pid=81)
Post by: Troll Control on February 15, 2007, 07:34:13 PM
Quote
I believe we ascertained that the NCES requests a custom report (From the CDC) to fit their needs
No. You simply made this up and now say it was "ascertained." It wasn't. This is your guess, not a fact. Strangely, you can't ascertain the difference between something real and factual and something you made up. Why does that not surprise me...?
This guy is living in Bizarro World. :silly: ::bangin::
Post by: psy on February 15, 2007, 07:35:51 PM
Who do you work for?
If you don't feel like answering that one, what area do you work in? what is your job?
Post by: TheWho on February 15, 2007, 07:37:18 PM
Post by: Troll Control on February 15, 2007, 07:42:04 PM
It's too funny that the Whomeister keeps getting proven wrong over and over and will never admit it, he just keeps on banging away at it. This is probably the type of behavior that infuriated his daughter so much and inflamed her difficulties. I can definitely see how someone so out of touch with reality and so insistent on never admitting he was at fault for anything or wrong about anything could wear down that poor kid until she'd do anything to get away from it. I bet he never tells her about his posting here. If she ever read any of it she'd be so embarrassed it's not even funny. He's actually more than likely even sicker than she already thinks. This would put it over the top for her. Betcha.
Post by: Troll Control on February 15, 2007, 07:44:57 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
The funny thing about this argument is it has nothing to do with the data we are collecting, it has to do with some people at my company and how they deal with missing parameters to satisfy our CPA?s. But I think it will serve some purpose.
Oh yeah, it serves a purpose alright. Shines a little light on what a crackpot you are!
Post by: Troll Control on February 15, 2007, 07:49:49 PM
Who's employment is like the first dozen pages of this glorious thread... Enjoy. :roll:
Post by: Troll Control on February 15, 2007, 07:54:59 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The Who, besides being a liar, and the most misinformed person around: really must be a woman. "She" sure dislikes DJ, that's for sure, and is merely trying to present empty arguments that go round-and-round. Deletion of privous posts to cover her lies are pointless. Then doing the "girl thing" and saying DJ dislikes women, that really blew her silly, silly cover.
Give it a rest WHO. You are a silly person.
someone's been at this for a while. this look familar??? she's been grinding away like this for years! the who's a CHICK, too!
Post by: Anonymous on February 15, 2007, 07:58:55 PM
You're obviously very well educated about the finer points of this branch of mathematics.
You are, however, not very smart in another area.
You're still replying to the troll.
WITHOUT REPLIES, THE TROLL DIES.
Post by: Anonymous on February 15, 2007, 09:15:58 PM
Post by: Ganja on February 15, 2007, 09:18:58 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 15, 2007, 09:24:52 PM
This group effort to try and control the crowd so we dont speak to the EVIL DOER who who should be in the corner with his dunce cap on, facing the ground in shame...... I think the more the programmies talk the better. Give them a megaphone and let them explain how crazy they really are.
If you censor the village idiot, people might start wondering what he is saying might have some merit. If you let him walk the village screaming all day long.. well its a more effective strategy.
So... really.... who gives a shit?
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 15, 2007, 09:25:05 PM
"points" on a graph created by interpolation is an ESTIMATE, it is NOT A DATUM.
There is a huge distinction between actual data and an estimated output of a function.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 15, 2007, 09:26:25 PM
The best way to deal with him is to either ignore him which isnt nearly as funny.
or
Continue to embarrass him and confront him with the fallacies of his own logic.
He cant stand that and its hysterical to watch.
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 15, 2007, 09:27:57 PM
"If I'm wrong, I'll find another angle, and once I've ran out of angles I'll repeat old shit hoping they forgot it (or because I forgot it was wrong or in some way incorrect myself) until everyone gets tired and goes away, then convince myself I won".
Post by: Anonymous on February 15, 2007, 09:29:06 PM
TheWho thread is not a righteous cause, sorry to break it to you guys.
This is PURE shits and giggles, nothing more.
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 15, 2007, 09:29:47 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 15, 2007, 09:36:37 PM
Quote
Havent seen any data coming from you Bob that meet the parameters, just critisism....thats what we call...Zero value added.
Oh Cindy my data adds plenty of value did you forget mine is accurate while yours is pure drivel?
You are correct on one point though, my data doesnt fit your parameters. The reason of course being that as Ive explained to you several times over, I simply dont give a shit about your parameters. No one else uses them and you set them up for the sole purpose of serving your agenda. Add that to the fact that youve changed your parameters and data several times over.
In the meantime my data doesnt exclude pertinant information-something parents value.
Speaking of which Im still waiting on you to explain how being a program parent qualifies you to determine what information parents need and what information they dont.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 15, 2007, 09:37:18 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
TheWho's MO:
"If I'm wrong, I'll find another angle, and once I've ran out of angles I'll repeat old shit hoping they forgot it (or because I forgot it was wrong or in some way incorrect myself) until everyone gets tired and goes away, then convince myself I won".
exactly.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 15, 2007, 09:41:37 PM
Quote
Thanks for another Classic Bobism... I am sure the CDC and NCES are sweating and worried Bob has just exposed them...lets see if they shut their website down now and go home....
Youre sure about alot of things but youre a delusional nutjob. As it stands I dont believe either website should "shut down". I simple pointed out that the data from the two sites apparently doesnt agree thus you should not use it and claim it to be reliable data. Of course youre a moron so you will anyway.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 15, 2007, 09:42:51 PM
Quote
I typically only repost the data if someone asks me to or if the data set has been updated or revised.
You mean when you change the data. I'm curious though can you provide many examples of people asking you to report your nonsense?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 15, 2007, 09:56:31 PM
1. Since you claim to have not followed the cases regarding the deaths in the PTS how can you certain a judge ruled them as not being homicides?
2. If a child died in a similar manner to how most of the kids in the PTS died (restrained to death) would you in the public sector likely be brought up on criminal charges?
3. Do you believe the 300lbs asst. counselor who sat on the kid at Eckert and killed him should have been brought up on criminal charges?
4. Do you believe the program owners have the kids best interest at heart.
5. How can you claim to have the kids safety in mind when you repeatedly discount their deaths or dismiss their experiences?
6. Where is the support from all these "concerned parents" you claim to work with?
7. How does donating to charity or spending time with kids help kids locked up in the PTS?
8. Since you never actually experienced one of these places how can claim it to be a positive experience?
9. How does being a program parent qualify you to decide what information parents should or should not have?
Quote
I believe staying the course based on old or nonexistent data is being ?dumb as a bag of rocks? as you call it. Basing ones decision on experiences that occurred in the 1980?s and refusing to look at recent data is really short sighted and only serves to mislead the parents and in the long run hurt the children.
This has got to be one of my favorites. Cindy considering currently on fornits you have posters incarcerated as long as 30 years ago and as recently as six months ago, would we have a better understanding than you with your lone experience as a program parent?
Post by: Ganja on February 15, 2007, 10:39:23 PM
No, this forum just wouldn't be the same.... :rofl:
Post by: Deborah on February 15, 2007, 10:41:00 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
@The Who
Who do you work for?
If you don't feel like answering that one, what area do you work in? what is your job?
I don't know, but I'm certain they'd love him at Time Warner. Rivals the nutjob I had to deal with last night. Called to request a credit for 4 days in Jan when my internet was down. FIVE, count em, it took five calls and 30 minutes to get to the CSR I needed to spend 2 minutes with. Is this efficient? Perhaps it is because most people quit after the second call, more profit for TW.
So, the fifth idiot goes, "Okay, let's see. 44.95 / 30...... okay, I'll issue a credt of $2.60." :rofl: :rofl:
I said, "No, you won't. 44.95 / 30 is 1.50 (4) = 6 bucks. Is there something wrong with your calculator?"
The stupid f'er says, "Okay, I don't want to get into a discrepency with you over 6,7 dollars. I'll round it off and issue a credit for $7.00." :rofl:
Time Warner has a spot for ya Who. You're a natual.
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 07:50:50 AM
It was your first night on board and you walked over and sat down at the captains table for dinner, uninvited and started interrupting all the guests and asking the captain questions. Here are the last 10 questions you asked him before he had you removed:
1. Does the crew sleep onboard?
2. What time is the midnight buffet?
3. Which elevator takes me to the front of the ship?
4. Do you generate your own electricity?
5. Is this island totally surrounded by water?
6. Is the water in the toilet salt or fresh?
7. What language do they speak in Alaska?
8. What do you do with the ice carvings after they melt?
9. How high above sea level are we?
10. How do we know which pictures are ours?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on February 16, 2007, 08:24:25 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 16, 2007, 08:55:17 AM
thread from falling back to page 2..
This should be renamed
WHO VS RB
a pointless debate of egos.
Post by: Ganja on February 16, 2007, 08:56:57 AM
Quote
ust in time to save
thread from falling back to page 2..
Oh you know damn well they woulda kept on anyway.. :rofl:
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 11:53:28 AM
Quote
Dear lord old son if you are going to keep this up at least have your facts straight. Chief Joe Cooley wasn't an assistant counselor. In fact he was a fully fledged youth counselor having benifited from the wildly acclaimed Eckerd Youth Alternatives Cattatogas training program(wank Wank).
Chief Joe intiated the restraint after the child left the huddle as per the facility policy. An interesting side note is the facility had objected to having in the program in the first place due to a variety of health related reasons. None the less Chief Joe initiated the restraint and was assisted by a Resource Teacher.
My mistake. Still wondering if Cindy feels that this counselor should have been brought up on charges.
Quote
Seriously bob.. GIVE IT UP YOU ARE BEING TROLLED!
I still dont agree, Cindy believes his own bullshit, he isnt doing it for fun he does it because he thinks hes right and doesnt know hes being laughed at.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 11:59:27 AM
Quote
Bob, I answered your questions.
Cindy you answered those you felt you could bullshit around. The ones youre afraid of you left hoping people would forget about. So get to it.
Quote
Do you remember the cruise you took last summer where the captain sent you adrift in a dingy with a few rolls and enough water for a week? You never did figure out why he did that did you?
It was your first night on board and you walked over and sat down at the captains table for dinner, uninvited and started interrupting all the guests and asking the captain questions. Here are the last 10 questions you asked him before he had you removed:
1. Does the crew sleep onboard?
2. What time is the midnight buffet?
3. Which elevator takes me to the front of the ship?
4. Do you generate your own electricity?
5. Is this island totally surrounded by water?
6. Is the water in the toilet salt or fresh?
7. What language do they speak in Alaska?
8. What do you do with the ice carvings after they melt?
9. How high above sea level are we?
10. How do we know which pictures are ours?
This event never actually occured, but I realize that youre a whackjob and your delusional mind leads you to believe all sorts of things that arent actually real. Just add this one to the list.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 12:00:19 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Just in time to save
thread from falling back to page 2..
This should be renamed
WHO VS RB
a pointless debate of egos.
I made a new thread for just this purpose, he wasnt interested.
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 12:40:21 PM
Quote
Cindy you answered those you felt you could bullshit around. The ones youre afraid of you left hoping people would forget about. So get to it.
Provide a link to indicate the ones you think I was afraid to answer, you asked me 7 questions and I answered all of them here is a link (bottom of the page) ???
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... start=1680 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=16007&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=1680)
And also, Bob, remember when you were put in that boat off the coast of Canada by the captain he gave you a pen and some paper and asked you to answer the questions (you had pestered him with) yourself. So, I would like you to share with us the answers you wrote down while you were adrift.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 01:06:52 PM
Quote
Provide a link to indicate the ones you think I was afraid to answer, you asked me 7 questions and I answered all of them here is a link (bottom of the page) ???
You answered numbers 5 and 6The rest you just sort of bullshitted around, never really bothered to answer.
Nor have you as of yet answered the follow up questions:
1. Since you claim to have not followed the cases regarding the deaths in the PTS how can you certain a judge ruled them as not being homicides?
2. If a child died in a similar manner to how most of the kids in the PTS died (restrained to death) would you in the public sector likely be brought up on criminal charges?
3. Do you believe the 300lbs asst. counselor who sat on the kid at Eckert and killed him should have been brought up on criminal charges?
4. Do you believe the program owners have the kids best interest at heart.
5. How can you claim to have the kids safety in mind when you repeatedly discount their deaths or dismiss their experiences?
6. Where is the support from all these "concerned parents" you claim to work with?
7. How does donating to charity or spending time with kids help kids locked up in the PTS?
8. Since you never actually experienced one of these places how can claim it to be a positive experience?
9. How does being a program parent qualify you to decide what information parents should or should not have?
So get to it.
Quote
And also, Bob, remember when you were put in that boat off the coast of Canada by the captain he gave you a pen and some paper and asked you to answer the questions (you had pestered him with) yourself. So, I would like you to share with us the answers you wrote down while you were adrift.
Cindy Ive already explained to you this event never occured. I know you have a condition and get easily confused but I can tell you with all assuredness what you have imagined never really happened. It would be better if you could accept that and stop making more of a fool of yourself.
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 01:17:17 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I almost went with Ganjas answers but decided to take a shot:Quote1. If these kids were not killed by staff members how did they die?
I guess if they were not killed by staff members it must have been someone else.Quote2. If you had a child in your care and he died in the same manner as some of these other kids would you likely be charged with anything?
In some cases, yes and others no, I am not really set up to watch kids. There are many different scenariosQuote3. Do you find it odd that of all the deaths that occur in the private theraputic sector charges are seldom brought?
No, the public sector may see the same thing, but I really don?t know. I would have to look at each case and I am not an expert.Quote4. If someone was hurt or killed in your factory would you deal with in the same manner these places deal with the deaths that occur in their premises?
Probably follow what ever procedures are in place. If we had in-house personnel we would utilize them first and then call in the authorities (911) if it was beyond what we could handleQuote5. Who is the "we" and "us" you continue to refer to in your postings?
A group of concerned parents, I cant really give names?.Quote6.Since you claim that public schools don't have staff members who runs them?
Principle, principles staff, admins, teachers, counselors etc. I would consider them staff. If I said otherwise I correct it here.Quote7. What have you done specifically that has helped these kids in a direct way?
Well to name a few:
I have donated to local causes which help kids directly and indirectly.
I have worked with kids directly to get them help.
I have worked with parents in my area and on fornits to get kids headed in the right direction.
I am working on collecting data which will hopefully expose the areas which are harmful and areas which are not harmful to kids.
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 01:23:26 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteI typically only repost the data if someone asks me to or if the data set has been updated or revised.
You mean when you change the data. I'm curious though can you provide many examples of people asking you to report your nonsense?
Here are a few:
-----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:43 AM
> To: xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: TBS Safety data
>
>
> Hi TheWho -- Sorry for the delay, Here is an update. I will send some more names separately through my work email. Let me know if this is comprehensive enough.
>
> Thanks
> Jim
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 9:13 AM
> To: xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: TBS Safety data
>
>
> Hi xxxxxx ? If you reduced the font size your table may take up less space, as someone had suggested. It looks good so far, are you going to analyze it or note any trends or is it too early? Thanks for organizing all of this
>
>
> xxxxxx
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2007 10:18 AM
> To: xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: TBS Safety data
>
>
> Thewho ? We cannot find much here on the west coast from the local papers. The Tbs, we know about, do not have any problems here that we can see. We will keep our ear to the ground and let you know if we hear anything. The table looks like it is comeing along. Would you repost it for me?
>Maggie
Post by: Anonymous on February 16, 2007, 01:37:13 PM
Either that or he's posting this shit on another forum, which means we need to track it down and destroy him on it.
Post by: FLCLcowdude on February 16, 2007, 01:51:33 PM
Post by: Deborah on February 16, 2007, 03:02:23 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""QuoteI typically only repost the data if someone asks me to or if the data set has been updated or revised.
You mean when you change the data. I'm curious though can you provide many examples of people asking you to report your nonsense?
Here are a few:
-----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:43 AM
> To: xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: TBS Safety data
>
>
> Hi TheWho -- Sorry for the delay, Here is an update. I will send some more names separately through my work email. Let me know if this is comprehensive enough.
>
> Thanks
> Jim
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 9:13 AM
> To: xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: TBS Safety data
>
>
> Hi xxxxxx ? If you reduced the font size your table may take up less space, as someone had suggested. It looks good so far, are you going to analyze it or note any trends or is it too early? Thanks for organizing all of this
>
>
> xxxxxx
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2007 10:18 AM
> To: xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: TBS Safety data
>
>
> Thewho ? We cannot find much here on the west coast from the local papers. The Tbs, we know about, do not have any problems here that we can see. We will keep our ear to the ground and let you know if we hear anything. The table looks like it is comeing along. Would you repost it for me?
>Maggie
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 03:19:58 PM
Quote
No, Bob, go back and look. You added new ones since. Here are the answers to your original 7 questions. If you want me to answer any more y0u need to answer the ones from the Captains list, sorry:
Cindy you do know that the word "you" is not spelled with a zero correct? Ive noticed you tend to make that mistake quite a bit. You need to learn to stay calm when writing these things. You get so excited you lose focus. You should seek help. Soon.
Now to address the issue at hand as I stated before you really only answered two of the questions. The others you were too afraid of so just sort of bullshitted around.
That being said, I'm a fair guy Cindy, and I believe you cannot expect others to do the things you yourself refuse to do. So I will answer the captains questions provided you can help me with one thing. I hate to think the captain has been waiting since last summer for me to get back to him. Please provide me the Captains full name, the name of his ship, the date this voyage took place, and cruise line and Ill answer them and send them right off. Even though this event never occured Im sure your delusions will provide you with all the neccesary information.
After which you can answer the questions Ive put to you.
Deal?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 03:23:22 PM
Quote
Here are a few:
-----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:43 AM
> To: xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: TBS Safety data
>
>
> Hi TheWho -- Sorry for the delay, Here is an update. I will send some more names separately through my work email. Let me know if this is comprehensive enough.
>
> Thanks
> Jim
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 9:13 AM
> To: xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: TBS Safety data
>
>
> Hi xxxxxx ? If you reduced the font size your table may take up less space, as someone had suggested. It looks good so far, are you going to analyze it or note any trends or is it too early? Thanks for organizing all of this
>
>
> xxxxxx
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2007 10:18 AM
> To: xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: TBS Safety data
>
>
> Thewho ? We cannot find much here on the west coast from the local papers. The Tbs, we know about, do not have any problems here that we can see. We will keep our ear to the ground and let you know if we hear anything. The table looks like it is comeing along. Would you repost it for me?
>Maggie
I know how we can settle this......
ATTENTION MAGGIE, JIM AND OTHER UNNAMED IMAGINARY PERSON. IF YOU ARE REAL AND CONVERSED WITH CINDY PLEASE REVEAL YOURSELVES TO US!!!!!
Its like a sick seance.
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 03:34:45 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteNo, Bob, go back and look. You added new ones since. Here are the answers to your original 7 questions. If you want me to answer any more y0u need to answer the ones from the Captains list, sorry:
Cindy you do know that the word "you" is not spelled with a zero correct? Ive noticed you tend to make that mistake quite a bit. You need to learn to stay calm when writing these things. You get so excited you lose focus. You should seek help. Soon.
I don?t think you would understand if I told you?.the rest of us do, ask DJ or Deboroah. There is a reason for using a ?Zero?, try to figure it out for yourself.
Quote
Now to address the issue at hand as I stated before you really only answered two of the questions. The others you were too afraid of so just sort of bullshitted around.
That being said, I'm a fair guy Cindy, and I believe you cannot expect others to do the things you yourself refuse to do. So I will answer the captains questions provided you can help me with one thing. I hate to think the captain has been waiting since last summer for me to get back to him. Please provide me the Captains full name, the name of his ship, the date this voyage took place, and cruise line and Ill answer them and send them right off. Even though this event never occured Im sure your delusions will provide you with all the neccesary information.
After which you can answer the questions Ive put to you.
Deal?
I answered all 7 questions , now it is your turn, Bob
S..L..A..M....."No Deal"
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 03:48:30 PM
Quote
I don?t think you would understand if I told you?.the rest of us do, ask DJ or Deboroah. There is a reason for using a ?Zero?, try to figure it out for yourself.
Wow Cindy, are you really so dumb you dont even know when youre being picked on? I was mocking you Cindy, mocking the fact that while you pretend to be well versed in many things you cant even figure out how to get around Ginger's block of the phrase "you need". Idiot.
Quote
I answered all 7 questions
No you didn't. You answered two of them and danced around the other five like you were rocking out to your Lawerence Welk music. You danced around them because you know they hurt your agenda.
Quote
now it is your turn, Bob
S..L..A..M....."No Deal"
Cindy I'd be more than happy to answer the questions, just as soon as the voices in your head can tell you where I am supposed to send them. Also I'm wondering, can you provide me a link to when it was I told this story youre claiming occured?
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 03:56:19 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I almost went with Ganjas answers but decided to take a shot:Quote1. If these kids were not killed by staff members how did they die?
I guess if they were not killed by staff members it must have been someone else.Quote2. If you had a child in your care and he died in the same manner as some of these other kids would you likely be charged with anything?
In some cases, yes and others no, I am not really set up to watch kids. There are many different scenariosQuote3. Do you find it odd that of all the deaths that occur in the private theraputic sector charges are seldom brought?
No, the public sector may see the same thing, but I really don?t know. I would have to look at each case and I am not an expert.Quote4. If someone was hurt or killed in your factory would you deal with in the same manner these places deal with the deaths that occur in their premises?
Probably follow what ever procedures are in place. If we had in-house personnel we would utilize them first and then call in the authorities (911) if it was beyond what we could handleQuote5. Who is the "we" and "us" you continue to refer to in your postings?
A group of concerned parents, I cant really give names?.Quote6.Since you claim that public schools don't have staff members who runs them?
Principle, principles staff, admins, teachers, counselors etc. I would consider them staff. If I said otherwise I correct it here.Quote7. What have you done specifically that has helped these kids in a direct way?
Well to name a few:
I have donated to local causes which help kids directly and indirectly.
I have worked with kids directly to get them help.
I have worked with parents in my area and on fornits to get kids headed in the right direction.
I am working on collecting data which will hopefully expose the areas which are harmful and areas which are not harmful to kids.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 03:59:45 PM
Quote
No, Bob, go back and look. You added new ones since. Here are the answers to your original 7 questions. If you want me to answer any more y0u need to answer the ones from the Captains list, sorry:
and he still doesnt get it. Cindy I'd be more than happy to answer the questions if you could just tell me where I'm sending them. Can you handle that?
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 04:05:55 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteNo, Bob, go back and look. You added new ones since. Here are the answers to your original 7 questions. If you want me to answer any more y0u need to answer the ones from the Captains list, sorry:
and he still doesnt get it. Cindy I'd be more than happy to answer the questions if you could just tell me where I'm sending them. Can you handle that?
Just post them here like I do.... no biggie
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 04:12:42 PM
Also still waiting to hear how this story came to light.
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 04:19:18 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Cindy according to you (and you alone since this event only ever occured in your mind) the Captain wanted me to answer these questions for him. I don't want to let him down. Please for the Captain's sake tell me where and to whom I should send these responses.
Also still waiting to hear how this story came to light.
Okay Bob, I will take that as a no...but remember I answered your questions
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 04:27:50 PM
If anyone has come across any new data just PM me or post it here and I will add it on:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 [/u]
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open, 72 sources reviewed, mostly emails and news articles)*
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 04:28:49 PM
Youre like a guy coming into the post office trying to mail a letter with no address printed on it. The mailman keeps telling you he cant send a letter if it has no where to go but you keep insisting he can. Over and over and over again.
I'd love to answer your questions Cindy even though you didnt answer all of mine. I just need to know where its going.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 04:30:00 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 04:32:34 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
You cant really be this dumb can you Cindy? Tell me its just part of your condition. Please tell me you werent born this stupid.
Youre like a guy coming into the post office trying to mail a letter with no address printed on it. The mailman keeps telling you he cant send a letter if it has no where to go but you keep insisting he can. Over and over and over again.
I'd love to answer your questions Cindy even though you didnt answer all of mine. I just need to know where its going.
I would like to see the answers too...post them here like I do, for all to see.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 04:41:17 PM
Either give me the Captains name and tell me where the answers are going so I might answer him.
or
Acknowledge this was all just another one of your many delusions.
Either way its time to move forward.
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 04:50:49 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Does the Captain post on fornits?
Either give me the Captains name and tell me where the answers are going so I might answer him.
or
Acknowledge this was all just another one of your many delusions.
Either way its time to move forward.
........ Ha,Ha,Ha...
Answer the questions Bob...... Just say "No" and we can move on......
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 05:00:18 PM
Quote
S...L...A...M ..... "NO DEAL!!" ........ Ha,Ha,Ha...
Someone call his doctor quick. He's laughing at nothing again.
Quote
Answer the questions Bob...... Just say "No" and we can move on......
Cindy why are you contridiciting yourself? Youre asking me to answer the questions and then saying I should refuse to answer them?
Which is it?
Afterall I said Id love to answer them, I just need to make sure they get to the right person.
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 05:09:26 PM
Really simple... Really Really easy....hit the "Easy Button" Bob!!!
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 05:11:21 PM
Shouldnt be that hard for you to come up with a name, afterall you seem very well versed with the story.
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 05:11:57 PM
Starting on Monday we will add another year 2004 - 2005 and see what that looks like. I will see if I can gather some of the data over the weekend and post sometime on Monday...
If anyone has come across any new data just PM me or post it here and I will add it on:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 [/u]
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open, 81 sources reviewed, mostly emails and news articles)*
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 05:14:51 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Oh not at all Cindy, Id be happy to post the responses here, I just still need to know who wanted them to begin with.
Shouldnt be that hard for you to come up with a name, afterall you seem very well versed with the story.
I do! I would like to see them...
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 05:18:19 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 05:30:10 PM
Bob, Do you remember the cruise you took last summer where the captain sent you adrift in a dingy with a few rolls and enough water for a week? You never did figure out why he did that did you?
It was your first night on board and you walked over and sat down at the captains table for dinner, uninvited and started interrupting all the guests and asking the captain questions. Here are the last 10 questions you asked him before he had you removed:
1. Does the crew sleep onboard?
2. What time is the midnight buffet?
3. Which elevator takes me to the front of the ship?
4. Do you generate your own electricity?
5. Is this island totally surrounded by water?
6. Is the water in the toilet salt or fresh?
7. What language do they speak in Alaska?
8. What do you do with the ice carvings after they melt?
9. How high above sea level are we?
10. How do we know which pictures are ours?
The captain asked you to write your responses to these same questions as you drifted away,
I would like to see the answers you wrote down to these. You may post them here
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 05:38:16 PM
Its a win-win Cindy. You let me know what your decsion is.
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 05:43:45 PM
I would like to see the answers myself.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 05:45:41 PM
For God sakes someone call his physican NOW!!!
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 05:49:06 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
I see. So youre in regular contact with this Captain?
For God sakes someone call his physican NOW!!!
I will take that as a no..
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 05:53:14 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 05:55:50 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Cindy the answer is yes. I firmly believe I cannot expect you to answer my questions if I am not willing to answer yours. The problem centers on me not knowing who wanted the answers first, you or the Captain. If it was the Captain its only fair that I give them to him first. For that I need you to tell me your good friends name.Since you appear to be great friends with the Captain I can even post the answers on fornits for you to forward to him. Provided you can give me a name. If on the other hand there is no Captain and you orginated the questions yourself just say so and Ill be happy to answer your questions without another moments hesitation.
It still sounds like a no to me......
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 05:57:28 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 05:59:13 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Well thats due to your demensia and general abhorence of the truth. I can assure despite your handicaps the answer is yes. Just waiting on you at this point.
When I see the answers posted here, we can move on.....
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 06:00:23 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 06:01:55 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
I agree. Simply tell me who wants the answers, you or the captain? The moment you tell me either persons name I'll answer the questions. You have my word.
Ha,Ha,Ha, I do, Bob...I want the answers.....
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 06:03:25 PM
You made it all up.
You should have just said so Cindy. No need to play silly games.
Repost your questions and Ill answer them.
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 06:06:46 PM
Bob, Do you remember the cruise you took last summer where the captain sent you adrift in a dingy with a few rolls and enough water for a week? You never did figure out why he did that did you?
It was your first night on board and you walked over and sat down at the captains table for dinner, uninvited and started interrupting all the guests and asking the captain questions. Here are the last 10 questions you asked him before he had you removed:
1. Does the crew sleep onboard?
2. What time is the midnight buffet?
3. Which elevator takes me to the front of the ship?
4. Do you generate your own electricity?
5. Is this island totally surrounded by water?
6. Is the water in the toilet salt or fresh?
7. What language do they speak in Alaska?
8. What do you do with the ice carvings after they melt?
9. How high above sea level are we?
10. How do we know which pictures are ours?
The captain asked you to write your responses to these same questions as you drifted away,
Ha,Ha,Ha,
I would like to see your answers to these questions, Bob
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 06:08:44 PM
Remember just answer the 10 questions and post them here.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 06:14:07 PM
Sad but still hysterical none the less. Any chance you have a shot of it, everyone would enjoy a good laugh at your expense. Not that they dont occur multiple times a day.
In any event to answer your questions (that have nothing to do with the topic but whatever)
Quote
1. Does the crew sleep onboard?
Yes.
Quote
2. What time is the midnight buffet?
Midnight.
Quote
3. Which elevator takes me to the front of the ship?
No.
Quote
4. Do you generate your own electricity?
Yes.
Quote
5. Is this island totally surrounded by water?
Yes.
Quote
6. Is the water in the toilet salt or fresh?
Fresh.
Quote
7. What language do they speak in Alaska?
Several.
Quote
9. How high above sea level are we?
0ft.
Quote
10. How do we know which pictures are ours?
They're in your camera.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 06:27:51 PM
1. Since you claim to have not followed the cases regarding the deaths in the PTS how can you certain a judge ruled them as not being homicides?
2. If a child died in a similar manner to how most of the kids in the PTS died (restrained to death) would you in the public sector likely be brought up on criminal charges?
3. Do you believe the 300lbs asst. counselor who sat on the kid at Eckert and killed him should have been brought up on criminal charges?
4. Do you believe the program owners have the kids best interest at heart.
5. How can you claim to have the kids safety in mind when you repeatedly discount their deaths or dismiss their experiences?
6. Where is the support from all these "concerned parents" you claim to work with?
7. How does donating to charity or spending time with kids help kids locked up in the PTS?
8. Since you never actually experienced one of these places how can claim it to be a positive experience?
9. How does being a program parent qualify you to decide what information parents should or should not have?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 06:33:01 PM
(http://http://www.fansview.com/person/sb24b002.jpg)
Captain Cindy on the high seas! Aye Aye Cindy!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 07:51:20 PM
Thank you
Hold on I have the answers for you from your questions.....
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 07:57:54 PM
Quote
1. Since you claim to have not followed the cases regarding the deaths in the PTS how can you certain a judge ruled them as not being homicides?
Good question ? What we typically do on this end is review the persons name that is submitted and then review court documents (if any) news articles to determine if the incident went to court and if it did, we determine what the ruling was. If it was ruled a Homicide we count it as a homicide. If it was ruled accidental death we categorize it as such. We don?t follow individual cases thru the process, just look at the outcome or decision if any.
Quote
2. If a child died in a similar manner to how most of the kids in the PTS died (restrained to death) would you in the public sector likely be brought up on criminal charges?
If proper procedures were followed I would have to say no. If a person deviated from what he was taught or trained to do then that person would probably be held accountable.
Quote
3. Do you believe the 300lbs asst. counselor who sat on the kid at Eckert and killed him should have been brought up on criminal charges?
No I don?t, at 300lbs he might have sat down and then not been able to get up because of his weight issues, I wasn?t there, there could be reasonable doubt. I think the person feeding him should be charged, if its McDonalds then they should take responsibility. ?.after all this is America.
Quote
4. Do you believe the program owners have the kids best interest at heart.
Yes, I do absolutely. I have met many kinds of people in my life at all levels of business and I have never met one who said to themselves:? lets create a business to abuse kids? or ?Tomorrow I am going to do a lousy job and screw everything up?. I think what many of us have in common is that we want to make a difference and do a good job every day we wake up no matter what we do whether it is mowing lawns or running a hospital, most people are proud of what they do. I am sure you are the same way. I am also sure there are some sadistic people out there, they are everywhere, but it isn?t a mindset in all people.
Quote
5. How can you claim to have the kids safety in mind when you repeatedly discount their deaths or dismiss their experiences?
I have never done that
Quote
6. Where is the support from all these "concerned parents" you claim to work with?
I posted some emails a few posts back and many I talk to locally.
Quote
7. How does donating to charity or spending time with kids help kids locked up in the PTS?
Well I am a strong believer that if you can get kids the help they need at the local level (school counselors, family counseling, individual counseling, local interventions) they will not need to be placed outside the home. If more money can be targeted to these types of areas there will be a bigger impact on getting kids back on track earlier.
Quote
8. Since you never actually experienced one of these places how can claim it to be a positive experience?
I have experienced these places and my family has experienced them. I cant say it was always pleasant for any of us, but the outcome was positive, so I speak to that.
Quote
9. How does being a program parent qualify you to decide what information parents should or should not have?
Well just that , I have been there and know what other parents are going thru and can empathize with them and assist them with help based on my knowledge and experiences.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 09:07:31 PM
Quote
Yeah, Bob, that was terrific... I knew you could get thru those, we purposely didn?t make them too difficult and gave you time to research...you did well...
Thank you
Hold on I have the answers for you from your questions.....
Yes its too bad you (and you alone there is no "we" for you) couldnt have been more straight forward with your pointless questions. Instead you asw fit to try and get me to believe in one of your silly delusions. Like I said Cindy, just because you dress like a sailor it doesnt make you a captain.
Post by: psy on February 16, 2007, 09:35:10 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
@The Who
Who do you work for?
If you don't feel like answering that one, what area do you work in? what is your job?
I'm gonna repost this question since it was never answered.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 09:36:09 PM
Quote
Good question ? What we typically do on this end is review the persons name that is submitted and then review court documents (if any) news articles to determine if the incident went to court and if it did, we determine what the ruling was. If it was ruled a Homicide we count it as a homicide. If it was ruled accidental death we categorize it as such. We don?t follow individual cases thru the process, just look at the outcome or decision if any.
What do you do about the cases that are swept under the rug? The murders that never come to trial?
Quote
If proper procedures were followed I would have to say no. If a person deviated from what he was taught or trained to do then that person would probably be held accountable.
What are the proper procedures for killing a child?
Quote
No I don?t, at 300lbs he might have sat down and then not been able to get up because of his weight issues, I wasn?t there, there could be reasonable doubt. I think the person feeding him should be charged, if its McDonalds then they should take responsibility. ?.after all this is America.
Youre an idiot Cindy, plain and simple. Youre exactly like one of these fat slobs who weighs 1000lbs and then sues McDonalds for making them that way. No one put a gun to these peoples heads and made them overeat, they made their own choices. Just like the counselor did when he chose to sit down on this kid, already knowing how much he weighed and what damage he could do. He had no issue getting up but he did apparently feel that his 300lbs wasnt enough as he had another staffer help him kill this 11 year old. You claiming he shouldnt have been brought up on charges proves you dont give a shit about these kids.
Quote
Yes, I do absolutely. I have met many kinds of people in my life at all levels of business and I have never met one who said to themselves:? lets create a business to abuse kids? or ?Tomorrow I am going to do a lousy job and screw everything up?. I think what many of us have in common is that we want to make a difference and do a good job every day we wake up no matter what we do whether it is mowing lawns or running a hospital, most people are proud of what they do. I am sure you are the same way. I am also sure there are some sadistic people out there, they are everywhere, but it isn?t a mindset in all people.
Once again youre an idiot. How many program owners do you personally know? How many have you actively reasearched? Does Buchi have the kids best interest at heart? Do the Bentz's?
Quote
I have never done that
Sure you have. Everytime you claim their deaths dont count because "they dont fit the (yours) parameters" you are discounting their deaths. I also already proved to you that youve discounted kids experiences by claiming showing your claim that there was no evidence of kids being abused at ASR. Testimony is evidence shitforbrains, youre claiming theirs doesnt count.
Quote
I posted some emails a few posts back and many I talk to locally.
Sorry local people dont fit the parameters. Never mention them again. As for your emails, I called out to your Jim and Maggie asking them to reveal themselves. So far no dice. It looks like you made them (like the majority of things in your life) up.
Quote
Well I am a strong believer that if you can get kids the help they need at the local level (school counselors, family counseling, individual counseling, local interventions) they will not need to be placed outside the home. If more money can be targeted to these types of areas there will be a bigger impact on getting kids back on track earlier.
So again this is very nice but it has nothing to do with kids currently locked up in the PTS. So then it would appear youve done nothing to help them. How nice.
Quote
I have experienced these places and my family has experienced them. I cant say it was always pleasant for any of us, but the outcome was positive, so I speak to that.
I cannot attest to whether or not it was painful for you and your mail order family to send your daughter away. My guess would be you were happy to do it and truly didnt give a shit. Whatever your feelings were on the matter you experienced nothing of what she or I or any of the others incarcerated against their wills at these places. You know nothing. What youre saying is basically akin to you coming up to a group of Veitnam vets not being one yourself and saying, "Man that war was hell, I was never there but I know what it was like and I know how it felt because I saw "Platoon". Not even fucking close Cindy. You experienced nothing compared to the rest of us. Please dont pretend otherwise.
Quote
Well just that , I have been there and know what other parents are going thru and can empathize with them and assist them with help based on my knowledge and experiences.
This qualifies you to empathize with them, nothing more. You dealt with one kid and one school. You have no clue what these parents are looking for or what the situation is with their children. Exactly the reason why all the information is going to be given to them, not your watered down edited version. To use another analogy say you became ill ( who am I kidding you already are) and needed to have a procedure done. Afterwards a friend has a similar situation and you tell him about your expereince and how pleased you were with your hospitals treatment, your doctors services and what he can expect in dealing with this illness. For you to do something along those lines would be entirely appropriate. Instead what youre doing is pretending youre a doctor and an expert in the field. You arent an expert Cindy, youre just an arrogant asshole who is delusional enough to think he knows whats best when you havent got a fucking clue as to what youre talking about.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 09:38:03 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""psy""@The Who
Who do you work for?
If you don't feel like answering that one, what area do you work in? what is your job?
I'm gonna repost this question since it was never answered.
Psy he wont answer it unless you tell him all about the hot air ballon ride he thinks you went on. Just play along he cant escape his delusions.
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 09:43:54 PM
Feel better (smile)
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 09:45:39 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 09:50:54 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""psy""@The Who
Who do you work for?
If you don't feel like answering that one, what area do you work in? what is your job?
I'm gonna repost this question since it was never answered.
sorry, psy, I haven?t been ignoring you...I have been asked before. I work for myself. I start up small businesses and purchase small businesses and get them in the black and then sell them off. I spend a good deal of time helping other business owners get out of trouble..... not really steady work but I enjoy it...you? It seems you are pursuing and education?
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 09:52:09 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Dont get angry because I tell the truth about you and what you are. I'm dead on the money with every statement Ive made concerning you Cindy, and you know it.
I am sure you feel that way, Bob, and that is whats important now isnt it?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 09:57:41 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 10:01:14 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
No. What's important is helping these kids. Something that you work in opposition towards . Oh and I dont feel this way about you, I simply know these things to be fact.
Someone is having a pissy night!!!! lighten up, its friday!!
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 10:04:45 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""psy""@The Who
Who do you work for?
If you don't feel like answering that one, what area do you work in? what is your job?
I'm gonna repost this question since it was never answered.
Well, I really don?t do much and there is a good reason for that, although I am not always happy or proud of it. To make a long story short I did well in college and post graduate work, earned a degree in engineering and went on to get my masters. I spent most of my college years organizing protests, getting people to sign petitions about stuff that seemed important at the time, yelling at anyone that wore a tie and asking my dad for bail money for myself and my friends (which I never paid back) which lead to me getting shut off and forcing me to get a job. I don?t think he ever forgave me for piping in Phil Ochs ?
Outside of a small circle of friends? at my sisters wedding when I was in high school and showing up wearing platform shoes, he spent the night trying to explain to all the family that I wasn?t gay and wasn?t wearing high heels. (It was a long time ago, Phil Ochs was important at the time and the irony (in the message) of playing this particular song was an opportunity I could not resist. I don?t expect anyone to understand any of that I just thought I would say it because it was important to me). I did well working in non professional jobs. After graduation I had several job offers. I worked as a research assistant for 8 months and was abruptly fired. (never let me back in the building to say good bye to anyone). A friend I had there said it was because I was always trying to get people to sign petitions to improve the place, which I guess was true, I was young, I then started cutting my hair on a regular basis and shaving.
My second job entailed leading a group through a research project and final presentation to the marketing group which turned out to be an extremely successful product for that company and it took approx. 9 months . They fired me the day after I presented, right after our celebration party.. I had 3 other jobs all ending badly. My last boss stopped talking to me and his boss took me out to lunch and we talked for a couple hours and basically told me I was a chronic insubordinate and unemployable in any professional capacity. I took 6 months off and decided he may be right so I started my own business, very small but I built it up, eventually hired a VP, then another, I sold the business when it didn?t need me anymore and started a new one and did the same thing, seemed to be my thing, building businesses but not actually running them or working for anyone. Guess everyone finds their niche. So now I am searching for a new endeavor. I would like to do something to help kids. I have always been amazed at why the medical field never seems to be able to manage money well, Hospitals go broke, Retirement communities are just plain criminal, Residential Treatment Centers are dirty and most look like they haven?t had more than a coat of paint in 40 years, all the money goes to the state and insurance companies.
Thats the short of it......
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 10:09:29 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""No. What's important is helping these kids. Something that you work in opposition towards . Oh and I dont feel this way about you, I simply know these things to be fact.
Someone is having a pissy night!!!! lighten up, its friday!!
My mood is fine, Im just being honest with you. Sorry if you cant handle that.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 10:10:22 PM
Quote
I would like to do something to help kids.
Why would you tell such an obvious lie?
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""RobertBruce""No. What's important is helping these kids. Something that you work in opposition towards . Oh and I dont feel this way about you, I simply know these things to be fact.
Someone is having a pissy night!!!! lighten up, its friday!!
My mood is fine, Im just being honest with you. Sorry if you cant handle that.
Thats okay,Bob
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 10:13:33 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 16, 2007, 10:17:07 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
You accepting it shows a positive first step, now you have to work on changing your behavior. Maybe you could enroll yourself at ASR? I bet HLA would take you, they really need the money.
Everyone have a good night !
Post by: RobertBruce on February 16, 2007, 10:20:25 PM
Post by: psy on February 16, 2007, 11:46:46 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""psy""Quote from: ""psy""@The Who
Who do you work for?
If you don't feel like answering that one, what area do you work in? what is your job?
I'm gonna repost this question since it was never answered.
sorry, psy, I haven?t been ignoring you...I have been asked before. I work for myself. I start up small businesses and purchase small businesses and get them in the black and then sell them off. I spend a good deal of time helping other business owners get out of trouble..... not really steady work but I enjoy it...you? It seems you are pursuing and education?
Yes i am persuing an education...
But my my.. your answer was vague. What kinds of businesses do you start up and sell?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 17, 2007, 10:54:51 AM
Nevertheless the question remains Cindy.
Is it your opinion that all TBS's are good and no children have ever been abused at a TBS?
A yes or no will suffice.
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on February 17, 2007, 01:23:17 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 17, 2007, 01:32:33 PM
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on February 17, 2007, 01:39:48 PM
Why don't you just keep the arguement focused on the kids, not so much about him?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 17, 2007, 01:52:14 PM
As I said before you need to pay closer attention next time.
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on February 17, 2007, 02:16:10 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 17, 2007, 05:43:30 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""psy""Quote from: ""psy""@The Who
Who do you work for?
If you don't feel like answering that one, what area do you work in? what is your job?
I'm gonna repost this question since it was never answered.
sorry, psy, I haven?t been ignoring you...I have been asked before. I work for myself. I start up small businesses and purchase small businesses and get them in the black and then sell them off. I spend a good deal of time helping other business owners get out of trouble..... not really steady work but I enjoy it...you? It seems you are pursuing and education?
Yes i am persuing an education...
But my my.. your answer was vague. What kinds of businesses do you start up and sell?
Thewho gave his whole history a few posts back
Post by: Anonymous on February 17, 2007, 06:11:07 PM
Post by: ZenAgent on February 17, 2007, 06:45:24 PM
Remember, whoboy. He's aware of the shit that fills your soul as well.
THE FEVER HAS REACHED FORNITS! TONGUES ARE BEING SPOKEN AND THE HOLY GHOST HOLDS FORTH! THERE ARE DEBBILS IN THE HOUSE! MR. WHO HAS A DEEEE-MON INFESTING HIS SOUL! COME FORWARD, SIR, AND GET SANCTIFIED! CAN YA FEEL IT? IF I CAN DRIVE THE HO-MO-SIKKSUAL OUT OF TED HAGGARD, I CAN DRIVE THE EVIL ASSHOLE OUT OF THEWHO!
Amen.
Post by: psy on February 17, 2007, 07:13:34 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""psy""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""psy""Quote from: ""psy""@The Who
Who do you work for?
If you don't feel like answering that one, what area do you work in? what is your job?
I'm gonna repost this question since it was never answered.
sorry, psy, I haven?t been ignoring you...I have been asked before. I work for myself. I start up small businesses and purchase small businesses and get them in the black and then sell them off. I spend a good deal of time helping other business owners get out of trouble..... not really steady work but I enjoy it...you? It seems you are pursuing and education?
Answer the questions. This is an interrogation!
Yes i am persuing an education...
But my my.. your answer was vague. What kinds of businesses do you start up and sell?
Thewho gave his whole history a few posts back
Yes. He gave his whole damn history which is not what i asked. He didn't answer my questions:
Who do you work for?
If you don't feel like answering that one, what area do you work in? what is your job?
Here's a new one: How do you intend to "help kids"?
Post by: psy on February 17, 2007, 07:17:31 PM
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
Why don't you just keep the arguement focused on the kids, not so much about him?
Because the purpose of why he is compiling this information IS relevant.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 17, 2007, 08:49:08 PM
Quote
Bob, you're not a very happy person are you?!! That sucks, I'm sorry! Hey, everytime I come on here there is atleast 5 new pages with you, and The Who going back and forth along with some of the other Fornits regulars. I apologize for not paying closer attention. It's just sometimes it seems like we've gone through the same set of questions............over and over and over!!!!
I agree Troll, Cindy has a habit of avoiding the tough questions and spewing off the same tired nonsense again and again. Oh and yes I am a very happy person.
I accept your apology, just pay closer attention next time. That way you wont accuse someone of something they never actually did.
Post by: TheWho on February 18, 2007, 10:39:31 AM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""Why don't you just keep the arguement focused on the kids, not so much about him?
Because the purpose of why he is compiling this information IS relevant.
Quote
Who do you work for?
If you don't feel like answering that one, what area do you work in? what is your job?
I head up a group of businesses, mostly small, 10 ? 30 employees and a few larger 100-200 employees. Anywhere from machine shops to consulting firms.
Quote
Here's a new one: How do you intend to "help kids"?
I am presently helping kids. It has always been my one of my focuses?.Here on fornits I am presently looking at PS vs TBS?s in 2 small categories. When I first came to fornits I noticed parents coming on here for information and advice and getting a very skewed version with very little information, mostly scare tactics and negative energy. As a parent looking on I could see the parents were not heeding their advice and actually getting the opposite impression, as I did, that fornits consists of a few kids who had bad experiences with a goal of not educating parents but trying to get even with their own or the schools they attended. This came thru loud and clear.
I believe many of the posters here would like to help kids but it just isn?t happening unless you reach the parents, which isn?t happening either with the present approach. So I decided to try and help by putting together some data to establish a baseline and potentially expose the areas of concern or danger zones in the industry.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 18, 2007, 01:14:50 PM
Is it your opinion that all TBS's are good and no children have ever been abused at a TBS?
A yes or no will suffice.
Post by: TheWho on February 18, 2007, 01:14:56 PM
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 [/u]
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open, 72 sources reviewed, mostly emails and news articles)*
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: RobertBruce on February 18, 2007, 01:38:11 PM
Quote
I am presently helping kids
You arent helping these kids in the slightest, this has been firmly established. Let me know if you get confused again.
Quote
It has always been my one of my focuses
You may want to try a new hobby, you only hurting kids right now.
Quote
?.Here on fornits I am presently looking at PS vs TBS?s in 2 small categories.
Now Cindy does "PS" in the above sentence stand for "Public School" or "Public Sector" you change your mind a great deal on which one you want to focus on.
Quote
When I first came to fornits I noticed parents coming on here for information and advice and getting a very skewed version with very little information, mostly scare tactics and negative energy.
Can you provide examples of this for us Cindy?
Quote
As a parent looking on I could see the parents were not heeding their advice and actually getting the opposite impression, as I did, that fornits consists of a few kids who had bad experiences with a goal of not educating parents but trying to get even with their own or the schools they attended. This came thru loud and clear.
So not only do you now know what information parents need, but you can read minds as well? Your arrogance knows no end. Your perception has nothing to do with reality. You came on here with an agenda and found evidence to support that agenda. Nothing more.
Quote
I believe many of the posters here would like to help kids but it just isn?t happening unless you reach the parents, which isn?t happening either with the present approach.
So now youre also an expert on how to reach parents? Cindy you claim we arent helping kids, then explain whats going on with HLA and why.
Quote
So I decided to try and help by putting together some data to establish a baseline and potentially expose the areas of concern or danger zones in the industry.
So far you havent listed any danger zones, just spewing off your nonsense and still geting frustrated because no one buys it.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 18, 2007, 01:41:18 PM
So for the 2001-2002 school year we have the following data regarding deaths in the public school/sector versus those in the private theraputic sector:
Out of 52,000,000 kids in the public sector 17 were killed while in school.
Translating to:
1 out of every 3,058,824 kids being murdered while in school
Out of those same 52,000,000 kids in the public sector 5 committed suicide while in school.
Translating to:
1 out of every 10,400,000 kids killing themselves while in public school.
Of those same 52,000,000 2,036 were killed in the public sector.
Translating to:
1 out of every 25540 kids being killed
Of those same 52,000,000 kids 1,772 kids committed suicide.
Translating to
1 out of every 29345 kids in the public sector killing themselves
In the private theraputic sector out of 20,000 kids 2 were murdered by staff members.
Translating to:
1 out of every 10,000 kids being murdered by staff members.
Of those same 20,000 kids in the private theraputic sector 1 committed suicide.
Translating to:
1 out of every 20,000 kids killing themselves.
At least its an improvement over the previous years I guess.
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindica ... le_1.1.asp (http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindicators/crimeindicators2005/Indicators.asp?PubPageNumber=1&ShowTablePage=TablesHTML/table_1.1.asp)
Post by: TheWho on February 18, 2007, 03:39:36 PM
Bob Wrote:
Quote
....apparently theres so much discrepancy at this point no one can rely on the NCES or the CDC for accurate information regarding how many deaths occured.
Oh wait a minute maybe he means just some of the data is inaccurate, the part that he uses...Oh...okay. I think we understand now. Your data looks good Bob, Thanks
Post by: RobertBruce on February 18, 2007, 03:42:56 PM
Those numbers are rock solid. Thank you for reminding parents that they need to take your data with a whole shaker of salt.
Now, go answer the question.
Post by: TheWho on February 18, 2007, 03:52:05 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
.........the data from the NCES and the CDC is unreliable. We can however rely on the numbers concerning the deaths in the PTS.
.
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Thanks for clearing up your position, Bob
Post by: RobertBruce on February 18, 2007, 03:59:41 PM
Now go answer the question.
Post by: TheWho on February 18, 2007, 04:06:57 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
It was clear to everyone but you dumbass.
Now go answer the question.
Bob, you always seem so angry and impatient...try to relax and enjoy your time here. We are all working towards the same goal of helping the kids.... flying off the handle never helps anyone.... a little more please and thank you would go a long ways
Post by: RobertBruce on February 18, 2007, 04:11:31 PM
You arent helping these kids, in fact youre hurting them with your propoganda nonsense and your bullshit.
I do care about these kids Cindy, because I was once one of them. You dismiss their deaths and abuse like its nothing and then you want to claim we're working towards the same goal. You want to claim youre helping these kids?
Seriously Cindy, fuck off.
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 09:48:16 AM
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 [/u]
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open, 72 sources reviewed, mostly emails and news articles)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2004 thru June 2005
The data from the NCES is incomplete at this time. They are reporting an increase in suicide rates (at school) of over 100% from the previous year, but this is still in line with normal fluctuations from year to year and is below the 2002-2003 year levels.
Outside a TBS: Data not posted as of 2/20/2007
Inside a TBS Data not posted as of 2/20/2007
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 10:01:06 AM
Quote
I am working on is I am presently looking at TBS -
Stick with that "I" Cindy. Recognize that youre alone.
Quote
I have put together an effort to collect data from the TBS side of things.
My hopes are raised even higher! You havent tried to collect anything but at least youre still with the "I".
Quote
This is only a start but, here is where we stand:
Shit. You failed again. Its not "we" Cindy, its just you. Whatsmore I wonder what you hope to prove with your data. Let's say "we" did buy into your bullshit and were willing to exclude all the other information parents need, (still waiting for you to explain to me how youre qualified to determine such a thing, but youre a coward so you wont answer) what's been proven? That less kids die in your definition of a TBS? Fine. That doesnt begin to address the amount of physical, sexual, emotional, or mental abuse that is prevalent throughout the TBS (again your definition) industry. So even if we and parents bought into your nonsense, all youve done is show parents that their kids might be less likely to die, but theyre still going to be abused.
With that in mind I wonder if youll now own up to your position and answer the question. Let me know if you need a reminder.
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 10:40:59 AM
Quote
????. That less kids die in your definition of a TBS? Fine.
This was one of the areas we are tracking, yes. We will be expanding this search to look at other areas of the industry as well which will allow us to examine and utilize some of the data you had sent us, Bob. I believe most of what you had sent us was from Juvenal lock ups, Boot camps and private homes. This area will be covered also.
Quote
That doesnt begin to address the amount of physical, sexual, emotional, or mental abuse that is prevalent throughout the TBS (again your definition) industry. So even if we and parents bought into your nonsense, all youve done is show parents that their kids might be less likely to die, but theyre still going to be abused.
These are great points, Bob, the data shows the kids are safer on a physical level as far as homicides and suicides which is only a piece of the information a parent needs. Knowing that their child is going to be free from abuse, being raped or beaten up is a must. So statistics will be needed to be collected to reflect how the TBS?s compare to a child?s home environment and public school environment. We are not sure at this point how this will be approached or if numbers are available for the public sector. But if we can get numbers on both sides this would be a great comparison.
Quote
With that in mind I wonder if youll now own up to your position and answer the question. Let me know if you need a reminder.
What question are you referring to?
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 10:46:35 AM
(That was just for the parents out there- not you)
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 10:57:37 AM
Quote
This was one of the areas we are tracking, yes. We will be expanding this search to look at other areas of the industry as well which will allow us to examine and utilize some of the data you had sent us, Bob. I believe most of what you had sent us was from Juvenal lock ups, Boot camps and private homes. This area will be covered also.
Theyve already been covered Cindy, youre just behind the class. Im curious though, why have you switched to "we" and "us" again. I tried to get the posters you claim to talk to to reveal themselves. They could not do so because they dont exist. Youre alone, no one is on your side, no one believes you.
Quote
These are great points, Bob, the data shows the kids are safer on a physical level as far as homicides and suicides which is only a piece of the information a parent needs. Knowing that their child is going to be free from abuse, being raped or beaten up is a must. So statistics will be needed to be collected to reflect how the TBS?s compare to a child?s home environment and public school environment. We are not sure at this point how this will be approached or if numbers are available for the public sector. But if we can get numbers on both sides this would be a great comparison.
Again with all these "we"'s. Cindy where are your supporters? Where are the people you claim to discuss these matters with?
Quote
What question are you referring to?
Oh Cindy, why must you always play games?
Quote
Cindy,
Is it your opinion that all TBS's are good and no children have ever been abused at a TBS?
A yes or no will suffice.
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 10:59:15 AM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
TheWho, what you say has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual data, which reflects several kids killed that you still won't acknowledge.
(That was just for the parents out there- not you)
Well, milk, this is the place to do it, lets add them in!!
Which TBS? Was it a suicide or Homicide? and just give me the names and time frame so I can get them in the right year and place them in the history file.
I will be updating the data set this evening if you had the info today that would be great.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 11:02:16 AM
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 11:07:09 AM
Quote
Is it your opinion that all TBS's are good and no children have ever been abused at a TBS?
I don?t and never have thought in terms of absolutes. I don?t believe all churches are good, all people are good, all schools are good nor all TBS?s are good. Children are abused everywhere, in school, TBS?s, Church at home with there family and by family members, which is awful but a fact of life.
What we need to do is remove our child from the unsafe environment and get them to a safe one. If they are unsafe at home, then get them the heck out and into a safe place. If they are in some lockup somewhere, get them out to someplace safe. TBS?s provide this but like anything else parents need to do their homework.
Post by: Troll Control on February 20, 2007, 11:23:12 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Yeah, Bob, that was terrific... I knew you could get thru those, we purposely didn?t make them too difficult and gave you time to research...you did well...
Thank you
Hold on I have the answers for you from your questions.....
I REALLY do think that The Who IS mentally ill. He keeps referring to himself as "we" :question: WTF is up with that? I just don't see how someone with this level of interpersonal communication skills can actually have the story that The Who has concocted about himself. It just doesn't fit. How can someone who can't even engage in simple debate or even understand simple data collection or statistics run ANY company? He misspells words all over the place, uses entirely incorrect words (doesn't know what they mean) AND sits here in this thread all day and all night EVERY DAY. I just don't believe anything he says. Too shady, too fake. Sorry.
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 11:29:09 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I just don't believe anything he says.
Congratulations! You're in a group called "The Vast Majority".
TheWho, you do realize that your continued presence on this board is just pissing us off, don't you? Hopefully enough to spur us into finding a good way to get ASR shut down.
Either that, or find your daughter, and perform the horribly mind-searing action of...
...showing her your posts.
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 11:45:18 AM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
Quote from: ""Guest""I just don't believe anything he says.
Congratulations! You're in a group called "The Vast Majority".
TheWho, you do realize that your continued presence on this board is just pissing us off, don't you? Hopefully enough to spur us into finding a good way to get ASR shut down.
Either that, or find your daughter, and perform the horribly mind-searing action of...
...showing her your posts.
Look, Lactose, I have read some of your posts and it seems you are the one who likes to piss people off ...it doesnt bother me or piss me off that you dont agree with me, you are entitled like everyone else. I am giving my opinions and working on getting a perspective of TBS safety at the moment....why would that piss anyone off? Because I wont take the group position that all therapy is evil, that all schools are the same?
I just dont believe that they are all the same.
My daughter would probably get a chuckle out of how many here single people out if they step out of line and dont agree with the "Groups opinions"
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 12:36:52 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Bob wrote:QuoteIs it your opinion that all TBS's are good and no children have ever been abused at a TBS?
I don?t and never have thought in terms of absolutes. I don?t believe all churches are good, all people are good, all schools are good nor all TBS?s are good. Children are abused everywhere, in school, TBS?s, Church at home with there family and by family members, which is awful but a fact of life.
What we need to do is remove our child from the unsafe environment and get them to a safe one. If they are unsafe at home, then get them the heck out and into a safe place. If they are in some lockup somewhere, get them out to someplace safe. TBS?s provide this but like anything else parents need to do their homework.
Very well, then explain this:
Quote
RobertBruce wrote:
So you cant back up your claim (yet again) and you feel double standards are okay for you to use?
I told you, you were nothing more than an arrogant asshole.
Look this has been my position all along since day one, if you dont like it tough beans, Bob, stop your crying.
While youre at it tell us which TBS's in your opinion are bad, and why?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 12:40:11 PM
Quote
Because I wont take the group position that all therapy is evil, that all schools are the same?
I just dont believe that they are all the same.
Fine, start backing up your statements with facts, stop pretending you know anything about this industry, stop pretending to be an expert, and start recognizing that some of these places are bad, and start being open to the truth about these places, not your edited and censored nonsense.
Post by: Troll Control on February 20, 2007, 12:50:42 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
Quote from: ""Guest""I just don't believe anything he says.
Congratulations! You're in a group called "The Vast Majority".
TheWho, you do realize that your continued presence on this board is just pissing us off, don't you? Hopefully enough to spur us into finding a good way to get ASR shut down.
Either that, or find your daughter, and perform the horribly mind-searing action of...
...showing her your posts.
Milk, why would you want to fracture this poor girl's already fragile psyche? It's best for her if she never finds out what her dad is really like. Why torture her further?
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 01:34:25 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""Quote from: ""Guest""I just don't believe anything he says.
Congratulations! You're in a group called "The Vast Majority".
TheWho, you do realize that your continued presence on this board is just pissing us off, don't you? Hopefully enough to spur us into finding a good way to get ASR shut down.
Either that, or find your daughter, and perform the horribly mind-searing action of...
...showing her your posts.
Milk, why would you want to fracture this poor girl's already fragile psyche? It's best for her if she never finds out what her dad is really like. Why torture her further?
There is probably some reality to that !!! Although, I think she would find out a few new things about the industry also and the types of people it can produce.
Post by: Troll Control on February 20, 2007, 01:38:46 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 01:49:08 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Yes, she will see the depth of the sickness of industry people, of which you are one!
I beg to differ, there are not many programmies on fornits to view. I think what she would be more likely to see is insight into thoses who oppose therapy for kids away from home and the blindness that can occur because of their personal experiences, to the point where the entire industry is painted the same color because they lost the ability to differentiate.
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 01:53:30 PM
Post by: Troll Control on February 20, 2007, 02:01:07 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""Yes, she will see the depth of the sickness of industry people, of which you are one!
I beg to differ, there are not many programmies on fornits to view. I think what she would be more likely to see is insight into thoses who oppose therapy for kids away from home and the blindness that can occur because of their personal experiences, to the point where the entire industry is painted the same color because they lost the ability to differentiate.
So turn her on to the site and let's see. I know if I saw my father behaving like you it would be incredibly damaging to my image of what and who he is. You seem to dismiss this possibility in your daughter, so what are you waiting for? Get her logged in!
I also don't believe anyone here is opposed to therapy, but one thing you just don't understand (not your fault, but you just don't have the requisite education) is that therapy must be provided in the least restrictive setting by licensed practitioners.
You don't understand this basic tenet of therapy, so you don't understand why sending a kid to another state for "treatment" at a facility they may not leave at the hands of unlicensed and uneducated "counselors" is just wrong on its face. Res ipsa loquitor if one has any understanding of psychological treatment.
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 02:36:54 PM
Quote
So turn her on to the site and let's see. I know if I saw my father behaving like you it would be incredibly damaging to my image of what and who he is. You seem to dismiss this possibility in your daughter, so what are you waiting for? Get her logged in!
She may just plug in someday?!!!!
Quote
I also don't believe anyone here is opposed to therapy, but one thing you just don't understand (not your fault, but you just don't have the requisite education) is that therapy must be provided in the least restrictive setting by licensed practitioners.
ASR was the least restrictive setting for her and she was treated by a licensed practitioner. So I think you can see my point?.people here like to paint the entire industry one color.
Quote
You don't understand this basic tenet of therapy, so you don't understand why sending a kid to another state for "treatment" at a facility they may not leave at the hands of unlicensed and uneducated "counselors" is just wrong on its face. Res ipsa loquitor if one has any understanding of psychological treatment.
I am not educated formally in psychology and you have proven yourself to be an unreliable source tainted with agenda. So as I have also warned parents to seek the opinions of a professional or your Childs therapist to determine the best treatment/path for your child not axe grinders.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 02:56:00 PM
Quote
to the point where the entire industry is painted the same color because they lost the ability to differentiate.
How is what you do any different?
Quote
you have proven yourself to be an unreliable source tainted with agenda.
As have you.
Quote
So as I have also warned parents to seek the opinions of a professional or your Childs therapist to determine the best treatment/path for your child not axe grinders.
Again how are you not an axe grinder? The only difference being Dysfunction, myself and many of the other posters on here have our personal expereinces to base our opinions on (that and a shitload of a facts) you were never an inmate at one of these places, you never worked at one of them, and you never fought with them over anything (as many of the parents on here did) because you bought into the brouchure hook line and sinker. Whatsmore you tell people to seek the opinion of a professional yet yourself pretend to be a professional. Add that to the fact that many of these "professionals" don't have a clue as to what goes on in these places, and of those that do many are given "gifts" for every kid they refer.
Give it up Cindy.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 03:08:45 PM
Quote
Very well, then explain this:
Quote:
RobertBruce wrote:
So you cant back up your claim (yet again) and you feel double standards are okay for you to use?
I told you, you were nothing more than an arrogant asshole.
Look this has been my position all along since day one, if you dont like it tough beans, Bob, stop your crying.
While youre at it tell us which TBS's in your opinion are bad, and why?
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 03:17:50 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Still waiting on you to explain this Cindy:QuoteVery well, then explain this:
Quote:
RobertBruce wrote:
So you cant back up your claim (yet again) and you feel double standards are okay for you to use?
I told you, you were nothing more than an arrogant asshole.
Look this has been my position all along since day one, if you dont like it tough beans, Bob, stop your crying.
While youre at it tell us which TBS's in your opinion are bad, and why?
Sorry, Bob, I have received many PM?s and emails by several people over the past few weeks to give you a rest and not react to your trolling for a bit and am heeding to their requests. I have answered all your questions, up to this point. If you have more (or any I missed), save them up and I will respond to you once a week, lets pick Friday, if that works for you.
Post your questions Thursday nights/ Friday mornings on the thread "The who" and I will respond. This way we will not waste a ton of Gingers server space going back and forth and the questions will get the attention they deserve.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 03:22:32 PM
I just couldnt sleep at night if I knew I allowed one single parent to buy into your bullshit. I unlike you really do care about these kids Cindy.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 03:23:14 PM
Quote
Quote:
Very well, then explain this:
Quote:
RobertBruce wrote:
So you cant back up your claim (yet again) and you feel double standards are okay for you to use?
I told you, you were nothing more than an arrogant asshole.
Look this has been my position all along since day one, if you dont like it tough beans, Bob, stop your crying.
While youre at it tell us which TBS's in your opinion are bad, and why?
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 04:03:54 PM
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 [/u]
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicides. ( Data set still open, 72 sources reviewed, mostly emails and news articles)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2004 thru June 2005
The data from the NCES is incomplete at this time. They are reporting an increase in suicide rates (at school) of over 100% from the previous year, but this is still in line with normal fluctuations from year to year and is below the 2002-2003 year levels.
Outside a TBS: Data not posted as of 2/20/2007
Inside a TBS Data not posted as of 2/20/2007
Red -- Data Point is has not yet been verified
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 04:38:09 PM
Quote
I am having someone verify a report from the west coast, I am adding the data point in "RED" so that it will not be forgotten.
Someone? Who Cindy? Who is this elusive person you've got on the case? Why dont they ever post here in defense of your nonsense?
While youre evading that I'll go get the real numbers.
Post by: Deborah on February 20, 2007, 04:54:40 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
ASR was the least restrictive setting for her and she was treated by a licensed practitioner. So I think you can see my point?.people here like to paint the entire industry one color.
What was his/her name?
Post by: Troll Control on February 20, 2007, 05:05:09 PM
Your posts, two pieces of bread and some mustard will make a nice bologna sandwich.
Post by: Troll Control on February 20, 2007, 05:08:15 PM
Any volunteers to get down to the nitty gritty???
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 05:19:09 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""ASR was the least restrictive setting for her and she was treated by a licensed practitioner. So I think you can see my point?.people here like to paint the entire industry one color.
What was his/her name?
I actually dont recall the therapists name. My Daughter called her Anne or Dr.Anna , I think. She had a private practice and also worked with the kids at ASR. There were a few therapists there. She consulted with my daughters therapist at home and recieved servicies while she was at ASR.
Post by: Troll Control on February 20, 2007, 05:33:21 PM
Quote
ASR was the least restrictive setting for her
So, was she suicidal or homicidal?
If neither, then your estimation of the least restrictive environment is grossly inaccurate. Not surprising considering you have no education, training or experience in this arena. But, hey, that won't stop you from stepping up on the soap box now will it?
Post by: Deborah on February 20, 2007, 05:38:29 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""TheWho""ASR was the least restrictive setting for her and she was treated by a licensed practitioner. So I think you can see my point?.people here like to paint the entire industry one color.
What was his/her name?
I actually dont recall the therapists name. My Daughter called her Anne or Dr.Anna , I think. She had a private practice and also worked with the kids at ASR. There were a few therapists there. She consulted with my daughters therapist at home and recieved servicies while she was at ASR.
Another stone wall in the debate/discussion. What, you never spoke to this woman? Or are you intentionally withholding information necessary to check her licensure. I'd check all the ASR staff, but conveniently, they don't list them. How fortunate.
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 05:45:16 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
The more TheWho posts, the more I want to turn my attention to ASR like the unwavering Eye of Sauron on the One Ring.
*starts chanting*
Quote
Any volunteers to get down to the nitty gritty???
DJ, why don't you make a new thread telling everyone, in excruciating detail, what the nitty gritty actually consists of? I think I've been asking for something like that for some time and can't recall you ever doing that.
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 05:46:43 PM
Quote
Another stone wall in the debate/discussion. What, you never spoke to this woman? Or are you intentionally withholding information necessary to check her licensure. I'd check all the ASR staff, but conveniently, they don't list them. How fortunate.
Look I don?t remember the name. See this is why you lose credibility. You discard information if someone doesn?t answer all you questions. I can barely remember my daughters therapist she had a home and she worked with her for 3 years.
See this parallels the regulation question, since they are not regulated that means they are hiding something, in your opinion.
If I cant remember someone?s last name it means I am intentionally withholding information or they don?t exist or she doesn?t have a license, in your opinion. This is why I don?t believe what you conclude.
Sorry DJ, she received therapy when she was at ASR by a licensed therapist. I am sure someone will come on eventually and confirm this, until then you can live with your conspiracy theories
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
ASR was the least restrictive setting for her and she was treated by a licensed practitioner. So I think you can see my point?.people here like to paint the entire industry one color.
The things that have been described about ASR aren't any different than the philosophy of WWASP or any of the others out there. Confrontative, forced therapy, LGAT sessions, levels. And yes, it's all bad.
Damn I can't believe you guys are still going 'round about this.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 05:50:59 PM
Parents get the idea that they cannot expect an honest answer from you, so they simply stop asking you questions. Oh wait, they never really did to begin with.
In any event I asked you the other day if you were a Mormon. It doesnt have any bearing on the discussion I'm just curious.
If you decide not to answer according to you I can safely conclude that you are a child abuser.
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 06:02:40 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Youre responding to the wrong person Cindy. Either way people pointing out your failure to provide accurate or complete information doesnt damage our credibility, it damages yours.
Parents get the idea that they cannot expect an honest answer from you, so they simply stop asking you questions. Oh wait, they never really did to begin with.
In any event I asked you the other day if you were a Mormon. It doesnt have any bearing on the discussion I'm just curious.
If you decide not to answer according to you I can safely conclude that you are a child abuser.
Bob -- on Friday I will go back and read and review all your posts, collect your questions and respond. Until that time I will be skipping over your posts after this and during the week ....it will make it easier and save time for both of us.
This is a result of many peoples requests to calm or quell, as you may, your Trolling
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 06:11:00 PM
Quote
Bob -- on Friday I will go back and read and review all your posts, collect your questions and respond. Until that time I will be skipping over your posts after this and during the week ....it will make it easier and save time for both of us.
I understand Cindy, youre being owned by so many others as it is, you can only take so much.
Quote
This is a result of many peoples requests to calm or quell, as you may, your Trolling
:D That's interesting, seldom am I refered to as a troll, you on the other hand get called one almost daily.
On the bright side though according to you a troll is a hero really, so you calling me one can only be taken as the highest compliment.
Thanks dumbass!
Post by: Troll Control on February 20, 2007, 06:14:48 PM
Quote
Sorry DJ, she received therapy when she was at ASR by a licensed therapist.
So, are you going to sit there and tell me every group session your daughter had at ASR (three times weekly) was facilitated by a licensed therapist? Is that what you're saying? If so, you've done it again: Lied through your teeth.
We all know it's the "counselors" who hold the groups and not one single counselor at ASR is or was licensed to provide therapy - NOT ONE.
So, the question is not "Did she receive therapy from a licensed therapist at ASR?" because they do use a consulting doc to manage meds and do some individual sessions (usually once a month or once a quarter) so they can bill insurance.
The question is "Did she ever receive therapy from an UNlicenced facilitator?"
Answer that, please.
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 06:20:41 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
DJ, why don't you make a new thread telling everyone, in excruciating detail, what the nitty gritty actually consists of? I think I've been asking for something like that for some time and can't recall you ever doing that.
C'mon DJ, stop trollfeeding and tell all the uneducated pissed-off ex-victims out there how this goes!
Post by: Troll Control on February 20, 2007, 06:28:42 PM
Here's the deal: Get me a small "tiger team" of motivated ASR enthusiasts, maybe three or four, and I will direct them in the most efficacious manner to get the state government to execise controls over ASR.
Now, if you're asking about the template I use to go after these quacks, well that's a different story and we should start a thread on that topic for sure.
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 06:41:30 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Now, if you're asking about the template I use to go after these quacks, well that's a different story and we should start a thread on that topic for sure.
That's exactly what I was asking. Christ, DJ, you don't think I was asking for names, do you?
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 07:19:13 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
QuoteSorry DJ, she received therapy when she was at ASR by a licensed therapist.
So, are you going to sit there and tell me every group session your daughter had at ASR (three times weekly) was facilitated by a licensed therapist? Is that what you're saying? If so, you've done it again: Lied through your teeth.
We all know it's the "counselors" who hold the groups and not one single counselor at ASR is or was licensed to provide therapy - NOT ONE.
So, the question is not "Did she receive therapy from a licensed therapist at ASR?" because they do use a consulting doc to manage meds and do some individual sessions (usually once a month or once a quarter) so they can bill insurance.
The question is "Did she ever receive therapy from an UNlicenced facilitator?"
Answer that, please.
Whoa, whoa, calm down, buddy. No my daughter received regular therapy as she did at home from a licensed therapist, once a week as needed. When I visited we met together and she also communicated with my daughter?s therapist at home.
You are so quick to judge people, DJ, call them liars. Just listen to the answers, why is it you want to rip people apart and tear them down all the time? This where you lose credibility, DJ
They had many group sessions involving the counselors and the kids, most public high schools break out into groups and have discussion groups, but my daughters? therapy was handled by a therapist. There is a fundamental distinction that you miss here.
My daughter never received therapy from an unlicensed person at ASR.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 07:26:00 PM
You can split all the hairs you like, youve lost all credibility forever on here. Either change your name or leave cause you wont accomplish anything.
Post by: psy on February 20, 2007, 07:29:07 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
My daughter never received therapy from an unlicensed person at ASR.
Two questions:
What are you smoking?
Can i have some?
Post by: Deborah on February 20, 2007, 07:41:29 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
DJ Wrote:QuoteAnother stone wall in the debate/discussion. What, you never spoke to this woman? Or are you intentionally withholding information necessary to check her licensure. I'd check all the ASR staff, but conveniently, they don't list them. How fortunate.
Look I don?t remember the name. See this is why you lose credibility. You discard information if someone doesn?t answer all you questions. I can barely remember my daughters therapist she had a home and she worked with her for 3 years.
See this parallels the regulation question, since they are not regulated that means they are hiding something, in your opinion.
If I cant remember someone?s last name it means I am intentionally withholding information or they don?t exist or she doesn?t have a license, in your opinion. This is why I don?t believe what you conclude.
Sorry DJ, she received therapy when she was at ASR by a licensed therapist. I am sure someone will come on eventually and confirm this, until then you can live with your conspiracy theories
Not DJ's post. You misquoted.
Blah, blah, blahblahblah. Who, my son has been out of HLA for five years and I can tell you every person who was involved with him. And I was OPPOSED to the placement and haven't maintained contact with HLA as you have with ASR. I'm calling bullshit. Ask your daughter for her name.
Did you check her credentials and license? Or take the program's word?
Post by: Deborah on February 20, 2007, 07:44:43 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""The more TheWho posts, the more I want to turn my attention to ASR like the unwavering Eye of Sauron on the One Ring.
*starts chanting*QuoteAny volunteers to get down to the nitty gritty???
DJ, why don't you make a new thread telling everyone, in excruciating detail, what the nitty gritty actually consists of? I think I've been asking for something like that for some time and can't recall you ever doing that.
FIRST, you get a group of people with a vested interest that are committed to the process. Without this, you're pretty much pissin in the wind.
When that is accomplished, we can detail, line by line, how to proceed. If you've followed the HLA forum it's been detailed there. There are a few steps that were discussed in private, as not to give away all the surprises.
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 08:02:27 PM
and milk gargling death penalty you are right the people who punished that little girl should be given capital sentences for their actions but i will say also not everyone in the field is them and not every program is theirs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
go ahead tear me apart
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 08:02:40 PM
Quote
Not DJ's post. You misquoted.
Blah, blah, blahblahblah. Who, my son has been out of HLA for five years and I can tell you every person who was involved with him. And I was OPPOSED to the placement and have maintained contact with HLA as you have with ASR. I'm calling bullshit. Ask your daughter for her name.
Did you check her credentials and license? Or take the program's word?
Sorry, Deborah, (& DJ) for the misquote. I remember her counselors names, but first names only, as we called them. There where just so many people, a couple dozen parents, 5-6 counselors that she interfaced with or liked, 20 other students she introduced me to and Awkwardly and openly (Ha,Ha) corrected me everytime I didnt remember their name. Her counselor was Mike, and she had a few that she liked during group. Doug and David I believe. And her therapist was Dr. Anna, she called her. I haven?t maintained contact with everyone. My daughter has maintained contact with most of her peer group and some of the kids from other groups.
I was very interested and involved in the therapy she would be getting and how we would hand off the baton, so to speak. I flew out and met with her (to be therapist) and we went over her history and got her in contact with my daughters therapist at home. They chatted, her degrees were on the wall and I remember looking her up on line. She had her own private practice also in North Hampton? Which is a town close by.
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 08:05:52 PM
Quote
.......no one even considers any grey area at all.
Thank you guest.
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 08:06:45 PM
Post by: Deborah on February 20, 2007, 08:06:58 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Whoa, whoa, calm down, buddy. No my daughter received regular therapy as she did at home from a licensed therapist, once a week as needed. When I visited we met together and she also communicated with my daughter?s therapist at home.
There's a way to confirm this. Dish over the woman's name and all the "counselors" who provided "therapy" throughout the week.
Quote
You are so quick to judge people, DJ, call them liars. Just listen to the answers, why is it you want to rip people apart and tear them down all the time? This where you lose credibility, DJ
Wah. :cry2: We're having a passionate debate and calling into question your statements about ASR. You certainly have the option to ignore anything that insults your sensibilities and just answer the questions. That would be a start. In program terms, you're 'manipulating' the debate by complaining about attacks. If you're waiting for everyone to speak to you in a certain way, this discussion is a waste of time. Just answer the questions and ignore the delivery. We're after FACTS, not your opinion of other posters. You could prove DJ wrong by providing links to the counselors/therapist's license. Every state provides this information. If it's not important to you, then just say so.
Quote
My daughter never received therapy from an unlicensed person at ASR.
Can you prove that, or are we to take your and the program's word?
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 08:09:12 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
i guess my issue with all of you
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 08:14:16 PM
He's deeming "therapy" only what his daughter had with the actual licensed therapist. The group therapy sessions, he's claiming those weren't therapy per se, rather some sort of group meeting where therapy may or may not have occured.
He's just trying to dance around the facts that ASR apparently allows unlicensed therapist to practice therapy.
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 08:21:06 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 08:21:53 PM
Quote
i guess my issue with all of you is that none of you have even been to the school and know nothing for a fact.
It depends on the school, some of us were locked up in them.
Quote
face it i have read all of you say is fact but truth is all innuendo.
A great deal of it is fact.
Quote
you hold up as fact stuff that happened 7 years ago in an article.
It doesnt change the fact that it happened.
Quote
you hold as fact what some former students have said...that is not even fact in a court case it is opinion and heresey
Testimony still bears weight does it not?
Quote
you hold grudges against some programs like HLA which truly deserve to be closed down
I personally dont have a grudge against HLA, I just want the truth brought to light.
Quote
but never give anyone a chance to change improve or try new things
So far as HLA goes Ive seen no real improvement that wasnt forced upon them, that seems to be standard for the industry.
Quote
you hold up this idea of licensure which is bullshit because there are active clinics and treatment centers where people work under another license, this is not just something that happens at ASR or other such places. the people have to have so many years of experience to get licensed in the first place. DJ if you are in the field and work in georgia i know for a fact you probably to work in the field for 4 years without a license seeing people under another license while you accumulated work hours and supervision hours. so you cannot hold this up as a true issue because if that was the case then every treatment center in the USA would have to close.
True enough, but most of these places have been around alot longer than 4 years. Whats the hold up?
Quote
i am not saying you are wrong but this forum is bullshit because no one even considers any grey area at all.
I personally have never said there are no good TBS's. I just dont know of any.
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 08:23:34 PM
Quote
Wah. We're having a passionate debate and calling into question your statements about ASR. You certainly have the option to ignore anything that insults your sensibilities and just answer the questions. That would be a start. In program terms, you're 'manipulating' the debate by complaining about attacks. If you're waiting for everyone to speak to you in a certain way, this discussion is a waste of time. Just answer the questions and ignore the delivery. We're after FACTS, not your opinion of other posters. You could prove DJ wrong by providing links to the counselors/therapist's license. Every state provides this information. If it's not important to you, then just say so.
Ha,Ha, no I?m not upset. I think that is one of the problems with forums and emails. It is difficult to get a sense if someone is upset or happy etc. But I am not calling foul or feel picked on at all and not complaining, dont worry. I am trying to answer your questions the best I can. I am not going to research and provide links to peoples licenses. I think , Deborah you would agree, the message should be that parents with kids going to ASR will ask for them and receive the same as I did. The therapists are licensed and parents should ask to see their credentials (as I did) and have them loop back to their child?s home therapist. Yes this is important!!
If this is done then I don?t see an issue.
Quote
My daughter never received therapy from an unlicensed person at ASR.
Can you prove that, or are we to take your and the program's word?
How can any of us prove it? It is what it is?that?s what she got, by her account and my account and her home therapists? account.
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 08:24:11 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
you accuse this man of splitting hairs when the truth is what i stated before. most programs of any type use a certain amount of unlicensed therapists. these people work under another licensed therapists license until they accumulate enough hours to earn their own. deborah since you are so into facts check each states laws and find out what everyone has to do to earn these hours. i have worked in public treatments centers where we only had 2 licensed people we worked under their licenses until we earned our own. places love this fact because they can pay these people less until they earn their licenses. and i am not only speaking about ASR or HLA type program i am talking about all treatment programs in the country. so please stop fighting agiainst each other and try to figure out how to improve these paces rather than condemn them because frankly i feel they are here to stay.
Coercive therapy is bad. Always.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 08:24:17 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
you accuse this man of splitting hairs when the truth is what i stated before. most programs of any type use a certain amount of unlicensed therapists. these people work under another licensed therapists license until they accumulate enough hours to earn their own. deborah since you are so into facts check each states laws and find out what everyone has to do to earn these hours. i have worked in public treatments centers where we only had 2 licensed people we worked under their licenses until we earned our own. places love this fact because they can pay these people less until they earn their licenses. and i am not only speaking about ASR or HLA type program i am talking about all treatment programs in the country. so please stop fighting agiainst each other and try to figure out how to improve these paces rather than condemn them because frankly i feel they are here to stay.
Not all of them, what youre missing is that these places arent forthright about the fact that therapy is being practiced by trainees. Whatsmore even with the supervision alot of times they are still in violation of the law. I know in GA a licensed therapist can only legally supervise three trainees. How many is Buchi currently supervising?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 08:30:07 PM
Quote
you accuse this man of splitting hairs when the truth is what i stated before
He is splitting hairs, he wants to claim group therapy isnt therapy. This is no different then the staff at hla claiming they dont take court ordered kids because the kid had a choice between the school or jail.
Splitting hairs.
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 08:47:21 PM
Quote
......so please stop fighting agiainst each other and try to figure out how to improve these paces rather than condemn them because frankly i feel they are here to stay.
Thanks for your input, guest. We could help so many kids if we could move this in the right direction and focus on positive improvements instead of tearing things down. The negative approach has never worked and never will. We need to start helping kids by improving the places where they are at (i.e. home, school, hospitals, treatment centers)... why cant anyone see this!!!!
Enforce regulation, start measuring successes, get feedback and turn it into improvements and continue to help more kids and reduce the failures?.. its simple on paper but could reach a lot of kids in reality. This would be a much better approach than chasing the kids back into the streets!
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 08:55:24 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 08:57:04 PM
robert you went there i know you suffered.....like i said i know this place. but wha ti also know is what i am saying is that not every program is bad. so stop being so judgemental and really try to find the good ones promote those and close the ones like ASR. sinc ei know peopl ein the industry i know a bit about ASR. and this is heresey but i hear they are trying hard to change. yes they have some large groups but they have stopped the super confrontal style that used ot be there. they have theme groups based on grief, adoption and loss. those groups happen everywhere throughout the United States. i hear they are making big changes because they have a clincal director who is just that clinical not into emotional growth style like ASR was previously.
okay just wanted to say that
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 08:58:02 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 09:00:52 PM
Post by: Deborah on February 20, 2007, 09:20:31 PM
Quote
i guess my issue with all of you is that none of you have even been to the school and know nothing for a fact. face it i have read all of you say is fact but truth is all innuendo. you hold up as fact stuff that happened 7 years ago in an article. you hold as fact what some former students have said...that is not even fact in a court case it is opinion and heresey.
And, WHAT do you hold up as FACT? Can you substantiate anything the Who has claimed? Can you show that the therapist was licensed?
Quote
you hold grudges against some programs like HLA which truly deserve to be closed down but never give anyone a chance to change improve or try new things.
Ya know, it's wasn't long ago that HLA was held out as the cream o' the crop program in the industry. Charging one of the highest rates for "treatment". Must be "good", ethical, unique; huh? It wasn't until the light was shown on HLA that the truth was reveiled. Let's shine the light on ASR. Full disclosure and transparency doesn't seem unreasonable. Might I add that HLA and ASR were both started by a staunch CEDU devotee and have continued with CEDU methods. What changes/improvements have been made? Just recently it was reported that condiments were withheld as punishment, among other things. I mean, how stupid is that? I can't even imagine putting my own kids on "bans" from condimentsj as punishment. What's the point, exactly? What's the "therapeutic" value added? Can/will you address that?
Quote
you hold up this idea of licensure which is bullshit because there are active clinics and treatment centers where people work under another license, this is not just something that happens at ASR or other such places.
I'm not following your thinking. Can you give examples? Across the country, while there may be some variation, you can not provide therapy if you aren't licensed. And if your staff is not licensed, the the licensed professional on staff can only supervise a limited number of unlicensed staff. In Ga, that number was 3. What is it in Mass?
Quote
i am not saying you are wrong but this forum is bullshit because no one even considers any grey area at all.
You are off the mark here. This site exists to look at the "grey areas". If programs believe it is ethical to staff group "therapy" with unlicensed staff, then they need to disclose this to parents who are paying $6000/month and are under the assumption that their kid is being "treated" by licensed professionals. Do you have a problem with accountability. My god, that is the program mantra. Put the cards on the table and we'll see how they stack up.
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 09:34:21 PM
Quote
......Can you show that the therapist was licensed?
Deborah, this is pretty simple and basic stuff. Either the Therapist is licensed or not? I know she was... if the parents reading this thread has any doubts just ask the question when they visit ASR and talk to the therapist themselves, thats what I did, end of story. You guys are nuts, why would anyone want to hide any of this stuff? Its like the eye doctor or dentisit or any other doctor. check it out people!! and no I couldnt tell you the name of the eye doctor I saw last year either.. does that mean he isnt degreed? or doesnt exist?
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 09:39:13 PM
HLA was founded by some CEDU people but they have never changed the program. i do not ever remember it being held up as the cream of the crop except for Buchi. however, the people you refer to at ASR left in 2003 if i remember right. they have a new clincal director who like i said is clinical in his stance. see these are facts that never seem tobe taken into account.
the licensing issue will go on but likei said places, all treatment centers use so unlicensed staff. Oh by the way i called my friend at ASR and was told they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test.
well i am off...please keep some more open minds folks...i think the debate is important but let us not get so caught in trying to prove each other wrong that we forget what we are fighting for
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 09:39:33 PM
Quote
You are off the mark here. This site exists to look at the "grey areas". If programs believe it is ethical to staff group "therapy" with unlicensed staff, then they need to disclose this to parents who are paying $6000/month and are under the assumption that their kid is being "treated" by licensed professionals. Do you have a problem with accountability. My god, that is the program mantra. Put the cards on the table and we'll see how they stack up.
Where did you hear that parents are under this impression that all the people are licensed?
Post by: Deborah on February 20, 2007, 09:41:45 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
you accuse this man of splitting hairs when the truth is what i stated before. most programs of any type use a certain amount of unlicensed therapists. these people work under another licensed therapists license until they accumulate enough hours to earn their own. deborah since you are so into facts check each states laws and find out what everyone has to do to earn these hours. i have worked in public treatments centers where we only had 2 licensed people we worked under their licenses until we earned our own. places love this fact because they can pay these people less until they earn their licenses. and i am not only speaking about ASR or HLA type program i am talking about all treatment programs in the country. so please stop fighting agiainst each other and try to figure out how to improve these paces rather than condemn them because frankly i feel they are here to stay.
In an open debate, this response would be inappropriate, and thrown out if I had any say.
State the law in Mass. How many unlicensed "therapist" are providing therapy at ASR and how many licensed therapists are providing supervision and billing insurance for those "professional" services? Those are the FACTS that discerning parents and advocates want to know.
I finally found the link to the staff, but I'm not in the mood to spend my time looking up their credentials, UNLESS you don't provide that information.
Here's the link.
http://www.parentcheckin.com/staff_pict ... D4F2D70%7D (http://www.parentcheckin.com/staff_pictures_external.asp?progid=%7B9239C59D-474B-445B-9A54-C4C4AD4F2D70%7D)
Now, provide something meaningful to the discussion, rather than your opinions. The FACTS are what people are after.
And, btw, which programs have you worked for? In what capacity? Forgoing LAW, how many "residents" should a licensed professional supervise, iyo?
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 09:41:56 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
so please stop fighting agiainst each other and try to figure out how to improve these paces rather than condemn them because frankly i feel they are here to stay.
I condemn them because they're misleading, unnecessary and dangerous. There is no way to improve it. They're based on confrontational approaches and coercive therapy. That is an oxymoron and dangerous. Therapy can't be coerced and if you try you'll do damage to the person rather than help. I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure they become obsolete. I may not succeed, but I'll damn sure try. I couldn't live with myself advocating FOR any treatment that includes force or coersion. It would have to be completely voluntary for me to even consider it.
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 09:46:35 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Ya know, it's wasn't long ago that HLA was held out as the cream o' the crop program in the industry. Charging one of the highest rates for "treatment". Must be "good", ethical, unique; huh? It wasn't until the light was shown on HLA that the truth was reveiled. Let's shine the light on ASR. Full disclosure and transparency doesn't seem unreasonable. Might I add that HLA and ASR were both started by a staunch CEDU devotee and have continued with CEDU methods. What changes/improvements have been made? Just recently it was reported that condiments were withheld as punishment, among other things. I mean, how stupid is that? I can't even imagine putting my own kids on "bans" from condimentsj as punishment. What's the point, exactly? What's the "therapeutic" value added? Can/will you address that?
Dead on. The purpose is control and power. It's part of a system of rewards and punishments, that when combined with the other techniques (isolation, LGATs etc.) serve to always remind the student that they have no control over what happens to them.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 10:00:58 PM
Quote
Where did you hear that parents are under this impression that all the people are licensed?
hla claimed as much on their website. For 6000.00 dollars a month shoudnt parents expect everyone to be licensed? What are they paying for?
Post by: TheWho on February 20, 2007, 10:01:13 PM
Why not try to categorize the places and determine which are abusive and which are not and then focus on the ones that are not up to standard. If you rattle the cage and expose the flaws, force regulation they will straighten up and make changes or get out of the business, this will eventually help the kids. Beating up on parents may be fun for many of you but the losers at the end of the day are the kids who end up not getting the help they need.
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 10:16:17 PM
For me, and probably a good many others on this forum, your constant whining has the reverse effect- the more you bitch about us doing something, the more you can guarantee that we're going to do it.
And you know what, Who? You get to watch. You get to watch every step of the way, with the exception of the stuff you're not allowed to see, as your precious ASR is slowly dismantled in a rising tide of regulators and lawsuits. If I can I'll get your daughter on board and you can enjoy the horror reaching a personal level.
Let the ownaj begin.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 20, 2007, 10:27:42 PM
Quote
I think you are doing the kids (you think you are helping) a huge disservice by ignoring their needs and bickering about isolation and LGAT, EST etc. which has nothing to do with many of todays schools. Get your head out of the past and lets start helping these kids out by improving the places where they live and the schools they are attending. Work on regulation!! Great?but spending time trying to tear places down just isn?t the answer folks?you are spinning your wheels?
So says you, then again weve already establsihed youve done nothing to help these kids so I guess you dont have room to talk.
Quote
Why not try to categorize the places and determine which are abusive and which are not and then focus on the ones that are not up to standard.
Ive yet to find one that isnt abusive.
Quote
If you rattle the cage and expose the flaws, force regulation they will straighten up and make changes or get out of the business, this will eventually help the kids.
Cindy we started on this years ago. Where have you been? Oh thats right doing nothing.
Quote
Beating up on parents may be fun for many of you but the losers at the end of the day are the kids who end up not getting the help they need.
This coming from the same guy who dismisses their deaths and denies their abuse ever took place.
All youve done is hurt these kids, dont preach to us who are actually doing something for them. So you dont approve of our methods? So what. Go off and try things your own way and stop wasting peoples time on here, just remember weve produced results, youve accomplished nothing.
Post by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 11:33:56 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I think you are doing the kids (you think you are helping) a huge disservice by ignoring their needs and bickering about isolation and LGAT, EST etc. which has nothing to do with many of todays schools. Get your head out of the past and lets start helping these kids out by improving the places where they live and the schools they are attending. Work on regulation!! Great?but spending time trying to tear places down just isn?t the answer folks?you are spinning your wheels?
Why not try to categorize the places and determine which are abusive and which are not and then focus on the ones that are not up to standard. If you rattle the cage and expose the flaws, force regulation they will straighten up and make changes or get out of the business, this will eventually help the kids. Beating up on parents may be fun for many of you but the losers at the end of the day are the kids who end up not getting the help they need.
Why not just keep informing anyone who will listen that this form of treatment, no matter how benign it seems, no matter how many claims that they're different and kinder, no matter how many name changes, staff turnover or new, state of the art crap they claim to have it's still based on a flawed and dangerous premise and is at best ineffective and at worst dangerous. That seems to me to be a much more honest approach about this. People are finally waking up. Not al of them but maybe it'll touch the heart of someone who really can and will help to get the word out to mainstream America who seems to view adolescence as something to be feared and controlled at all costs.
Post by: Deborah on February 21, 2007, 12:18:34 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Deborah wrote:QuoteWah. We're having a passionate debate and calling into question your statements about ASR. You certainly have the option to ignore anything that insults your sensibilities and just answer the questions. That would be a start. In program terms, you're 'manipulating' the debate by complaining about attacks. If you're waiting for everyone to speak to you in a certain way, this discussion is a waste of time. Just answer the questions and ignore the delivery. We're after FACTS, not your opinion of other posters. You could prove DJ wrong by providing links to the counselors/therapist's license. Every state provides this information. If it's not important to you, then just say so.
Ha,Ha, no I?m not upset. I think that is one of the problems with forums and emails. It is difficult to get a sense if someone is upset or happy etc. But I am not calling foul or feel picked on at all and not complaining, dont worry.
I could give a shit how you're feeling Who. Pretend you're in a court of law where "feelings" don't count. Just answer the questions. Only concerned with the FACTS. I'm actually quiet tired of your presumptions, your shadetree analysis of how others are feeling. Big whoop. What does that have to do with whether or not ASR is providing what they advertise and what you claim?
Quote
I am trying to answer your questions the best I can. I am not going to research and provide links to peoples licenses. I think , Deborah you would agree, the message should be that parents with kids going to ASR will ask for them and receive the same as I did. The therapists are licensed and parents should ask to see their credentials (as I did) and have them loop back to their child?s home therapist. Yes this is important!!
If this is done then I don?t see an issue.
Quote
Yep, parents need to do their own research. I'm not talking to those parents right now. I'm talking to a person who claims to be a parent, who claims to "know" the therapist was licensed. I'm asking you how you know this. Your perogative whether you answer or not. But taking their word, or the program's isn't wise. I don't care how many 'degrees' they have plastered on the wall.QuoteHow can any of us prove it? It is what it is?that?s what she got, by her account and my account and her home therapists? account.
Okay, this may seem like a monumental task for you, but I assure you that the process of "proving" isn't that difficult. It does require some time. And none of us can prove anything without names, which you aren't willing to provide. Stalemate.
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 07:49:49 AM
Quote
could give a shit how you're feeling Who. Pretend you're in a court of law where "feelings" don't count. Just answer the questions. Only concerned with the FACTS. I'm actually quiet tired of your presumptions, your shadetree analysis of how others are feeling. Big whoop. What does that have to do with whether or not ASR is providing what they advertise and what you claim?
I typically care how the other person feels and often inquire. That is one of the many differences between us. Yes, we are far from a court of law or you would all be sued for slander, Ha,Ha,. Many times you or DJ accuse the school of not providing services or being license etc. we eventually prove you wrong. My daughter received therapy from a license therapist. Any parent sending their child there can check it out for themselves. The truth will come out eventually, as people say here.
Quote
Yep, parents need to do their own research. I'm not talking to those parents right now. I'm talking to a person who claims to be a parent, who claims to "know" the therapist was licensed. I'm asking you how you know this. Your perogative whether you answer or not. But taking their word, or the program's isn't wise. I don't care how many 'degrees' they have plastered on the wall.
I know she was licensed because I checked it out, as other parents do and can do. I went to a dermatologist a couple of years ago and had to go thru a procedure to have a mole removed. The doctor who treated me was degreed I remember checking it out, can I remember the doctors name? Dam if I can? does that mean he doesn?t exist or does not have a degree? Should I assume I was treated by an unlicensed doctor and begin an investigation and start smearing the treatment centers in the area? Should I also assume all the treatment centers in the US are suspect, hiring unlicensed people!!!
Or should we wait for the facts to come out??..?
Quote
Okay, this may seem like a monumental task for you, but I assure you that the process of "proving" isn't that difficult. It does require some time. And none of us can prove anything without names, which you aren't willing to provide. Stalemate.
No, I am not going to research the old documents and provide names for everyone here, its not the way it works. Kids come on here and tell their story and no one asks for proof, video or photos. We are exchanging information.
Post by: odie on February 21, 2007, 08:12:27 AM
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 08:21:17 AM
Quote from: ""odie""
Is there any point whatsoever to this thread? I'm a licensed therapist and sitting here ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin::
Round and round arguing and rehashing of the same topics, licensing, treatment, TBS?s, boot camps, abuse. Can we lump TBS schools, boot camps, Wilderness, mental hospitals RTC?s all together and get a sense of the industry as a whole? Can we apply the problems seen in bootcamps to boarding schools?
Is there any requirement to having every employee of the TBS?s to be licensed. Are other facilities/ state facilities held to this same requirement?
Post by: Ganja on February 21, 2007, 08:23:28 AM
Quote from: ""odie""
Is there any point whatsoever to this thread? I'm a licensed therapist and sitting here ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin:: ::bangin::
Not really... :lol:
Fwiw, I succeeded in getting TheWho to listen to Live at Leeds (by The Who) & Animals (by Pink Floyd) during this thread, but I'm not sure how much good it did him (her?).
Post by: Troll Control on February 21, 2007, 11:01:53 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
you accuse this man of splitting hairs when the truth is what i stated before. most programs of any type use a certain amount of unlicensed therapists. these people work under another licensed therapists license until they accumulate enough hours to earn their own. deborah since you are so into facts check each states laws and find out what everyone has to do to earn these hours. i have worked in public treatments centers where we only had 2 licensed people we worked under their licenses until we earned our own. places love this fact because they can pay these people less until they earn their licenses. and i am not only speaking about ASR or HLA type program i am talking about all treatment programs in the country. so please stop fighting agiainst each other and try to figure out how to improve these paces rather than condemn them because frankly i feel they are here to stay.
OK ,let me correct you here. There are laws that govern how many counselors (who have already applied for a license) can be supervised by licensed staff.
In Georgia, it's three. Three people with licenses in progress can work under one already licensed provider. This did not stop HLA from hiring counselors who had no education to even apply for a license, nor did it stop them from claiming one single person oversaw their entire staff of counselors. When the authorities got wind, the party was over.
Explain, anon, how more than a dozen counselors at ASR can be working under the one single person with a license. It's illegal. Flatly, plainly illegal.
Post by: Troll Control on February 21, 2007, 11:10:10 AM
Quote
The Who wrote:
They had many group sessions involving the counselors and the kids
My daughter never received therapy from an unlicensed person at ASR.
Hmmmm...Let's see. Group "sessions" three times a week involving confrontation and revealing intimate details of personal lives, sex lives, etc, etc, etc. all "facilitated" by a "counselor."
I have news for you, Who. this is called "group therapy" and one needs a license to conduct it.
Which licensed counselor provided this group therapy for your child?
Also, I agree with Deb. It's simply inconceivable and unbelievable that someone who was "very involved" with your daughter's allegedly licensed therapist wouldn't be able to remember even her name. Looked her up (you think?) on the web? Read her degrees on the wall? Followed up with her for after care? Can't even remember her name???
Who, you're so full of shit it's not funny. I don't see the problem with directly calling you a liar. You've been caught lying and fabricating over and again, just like the last quote you posted and said I said it, but it wasn't me - you lied to try to make yourself look good and to make me look bad. Deborah caught you red-handed (AGAIN).
You are a consummate liar, Who. You just can't stop getting caught for it every single time...
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 11:24:49 AM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
QuoteThe Who wrote:
They had many group sessions involving the counselors and the kids
My daughter never received therapy from an unlicensed person at ASR.
Hmmmm...Let's see. Group "sessions" three times a week involving confrontation and revealing intimate details of personal lives, sex lives, etc, etc, etc. all "facilitated" by a "counselor."
I have news for you, Who. this is called "group therapy" and one needs a license to conduct it.
Which licensed counselor provided this group therapy for your child?
Also, I agree with Deb. It's simply inconceivable and unbelievable that someone who was "very involved" with your daughter's allegedly licensed therapist wouldn't be able to remember even her name. Looked her up (you think?) on the web? Read her degrees on the wall? Followed up with her for after care? Can't even remember her name???
Who, you're so full of shit it's not funny. I don't see the problem with directly calling you a liar. You've been caught lying and fabricating over and again, just like the last quote you posted and said I said it, but it wasn't me - you lied to try to make yourself look good and to make me look bad. Deborah caught you red-handed (AGAIN).
You are a consummate liar, Who. You just can't stop getting caught for it every single time...
I see you are a little boxed in and angry we exposed the fact that ASR has licensed Counselors, I would be embarrassed too, DJ.
Now on to you comparison of groups versus individual therapy. My daughter received individual therapy from a therapist (I know this bothers you, but you cant bury the truth or make it go away).
Yes, the kids and counselors broke into groups several times a week and had discussions, talked about progress,? how we doing? checks etc.
We did this in our high school growing up. Where is there a law against this. The problem with what you say and the reason you lose credibility is that you present no facts or laws to base your accusations on. What law has been broken?
Post by: Deborah on February 21, 2007, 11:43:42 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Yes, we are far from a court of law or you would all be sued for slander, Ha,Ha,. Many times you or DJ accuse the school of not providing services or being license etc. we eventually prove you wrong.
Slander? Examples?
Quote
No, I am not going to research the old documents and provide names for everyone here, its not the way it works. Kids come on here and tell their story and no one asks for proof, video or photos. We are exchanging information.
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I am not going to research and provide links to peoples licenses. I think , Deborah you would agree, the message should be that parents with kids going to ASR will ask for them and receive the same as I did. The therapists are licensed and parents should ask to see their credentials (as I did) and have them loop back to their child?s home therapist. Yes this is important!!
I did the research and posted it in the Aspen forum
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20728 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20728)
10 ?Clinical Counselors? 1 ?Counselor?
9 are not licensed- 2 of those are expired
1 Licensed as a Mental Health Counselor
1 Licensed Certified Social Worker
Cohen, Ralph- Psychiatrist ? Licensed as Psychologist in Hartford, Ct-License has expired or is inactive. The license is expired beyond 1 Renewal period.
Bartolomeo, Frank - Director of Counseling- not licensed
Valuski, Michael - Associate Director of Counseling- not licensed
Madeiros, Ness - Pathways Program Counselor- not licensed
Post by: Anonymous on February 21, 2007, 11:45:04 AM
PS.....ASR is not like HLA because none of its services are covered by insurance only the services provided by the outside consulting psychiatrists. they know they would be committing fraud if they charged insurance for services they are not providing.
so there go based on wha ti know abou tthat program
Post by: Anonymous on February 21, 2007, 11:56:28 AM
this is why i keep saying you need more information you are assumptions based on what you get but you keep missing the mark.
Post by: Anonymous on February 21, 2007, 12:04:58 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Cohen, Ralph Psychiatrist ? Licensed as Psychologist in Hartford, Ct-License has expired or is inactive. The license is expired beyond 1 Renewal period.
Someone explain to me exactly how a practicing shrink, in a warehouse full of kids, lets his license go like that?
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 12:22:25 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
*ignores the obvious troll*Quote from: ""Deborah""Cohen, Ralph Psychiatrist ? Licensed as Psychologist in Hartford, Ct-License has expired or is inactive. The license is expired beyond 1 Renewal period.
Someone explain to me exactly how a practicing shrink, in a warehouse full of kids, lets his license go like that?
Its because it is not true (like everything else they say) , that?s why......He is licensed. People here like to twist the facts to meet their own agenda, Here is a link:
http://profiles.massmedboard.org/MA-Phy ... sp?ID=7087 (http://profiles.massmedboard.org/MA-Physician-Profile-View-Doctor.asp?ID=7087)
Post by: Troll Control on February 21, 2007, 12:32:31 PM
Quote
Yes, the kids and counselors broke into groups several times a week and had discussions, talked about progress,? how we doing? checks etc.
We did this in our high school growing up. Where is there a law against this. The problem with what you say and the reason you lose credibility is that you present no facts or laws to base your accusations on. What law has been broken?
If only this fantasy were true, Who.
The fact is that these are group counseling sessions, not "progress meetings." This has been abundantly documented by people who actually went thru the program (confrontation, explicit details of sexual encounters, etc). These are three times weekly "group therapy" sessions (call them what you want, they are what they are) facilitated by unlicensed staff. This is illegal and it's called "providing therapy without a license" and it's a serious matter.
Now, Who, what type of high school did you go to that had three times weekly therapy sessions? For that matter, what type of high school even has three times weekly "progress meetings" with counselors? That doesn't even pass the smell test. More BS from a BSer.
Let's not forget that ASR is a spin-off of HLA, founded by the same person, based on the same model, running the same scams.
We'll just have to see what happens when the state intervenes. I guess we will then know the full extent to which laws have been broken or circumvented. I'm getting some folks together now that will be crawling through all of ASR's paperwork with the state and pointing out "irregularities." I guess then we'll see where ASR stands on the legal issues.
Remember, Who, you said all of the same things about HLA and you were wrong on all counts, as proven by ORS's reclassifying HLA as a Residential Childcare Facility, which is what ASR is also - a glorified treatment center with none of the patient protections or rights. All it took was one person from one agency to start digging and the house of cards fell flat.
Post by: Anonymous on February 21, 2007, 12:33:43 PM
I smell a rat.. (http://http://license.reg.state.ma.us/public/pubLicenseQ.asp?board_code=PY&type_class=__&license_number=000004272&color=red&lb=PY)
Post by: Troll Control on February 21, 2007, 12:38:50 PM
Which "Dr. Anna" was it? Dr. Anna Nicole Smith?
Funny how you "remember" details of group counseling sessions that you never attended, but just can't seem to remember this woman's name, even though you were intimately (not sexually, but correct me if I'm wrong, Who) involved with her for two years... Hmmmmm.... Yeah, that sounds truthful, Who.
At least we now have determined that TheWho is actually Scooter Libby.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 21, 2007, 12:44:01 PM
1. What points specifically do you believe you've "proven us wrong" on?
2. What is your definition of "group therapy"?
3. How do you believe kids should prove their claims of abuse?
4. What specifically have you done to help the kids locked up in these places?
5. Why did you lie claiming ignorace concerning the fact that TBS's lie to state regulators?
6. Why do these places avoid regulation if as you claim they have the kids best interest at heart?
7. What TBS's are bad in your opinion and why?
8. Why dont the people you claim to work with defend you?
9. Why havent the people mentioned in your PM's shown up?
10. Should therapy be given by unlicensed people?
11. Do you believe yourself to have high level of credibility here on fornits?
12. Are you an "axe grinder" with an agenda here?
13.How does you shipping your daughter off to a kiddie prison qualify you to commentate on the entire industry and determine what information parents need and what they dont need?
14. Since we've established that many times the murders that occur in the PTS are swept under the rug or lied about, how can you determine they should not count as homicides?
15. What are the proper procedures for killing a child?
16. Why did you change your mind regarding your feelings on regulation?
17. Why do you believe the person feeding the 300+lbs counselor should be held respondsible for the kids death at Eckerd, when the counselor not only chose to over eat, but to sit on the boy as well?
18. How many program owners do you personally know?
19. How does the fact that you claimed no evidence existed of kids being abused at ASR not translate in your mind to you dismissing their claims?
20. Since you did not experience the school for yourself how can you claim it to be positive?
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
QuoteYes, the kids and counselors broke into groups several times a week and had discussions, talked about progress,? how we doing? checks etc.
We did this in our high school growing up. Where is there a law against this. The problem with what you say and the reason you lose credibility is that you present no facts or laws to base your accusations on. What law has been broken?
If only this fantasy were true, Who.
The fact is that these are group counseling sessions, not "progress meetings." This has been abundantly documented by people who actually went thru the program (confrontation, explicit details of sexual encounters, etc). These are three times weekly "group therapy" sessions (call them what you want, they are what they are) facilitated by unlicensed staff. This is illegal and it's called "providing therapy without a license" and it's a serious matter.
Now, Who, what type of high school did you go to that had three times weekly therapy sessions? For that matter, what type of high school even has three times weekly "progress meetings" with counselors? That doesn't even pass the smell test. More BS from a BSer.
Let's not forget that ASR is a spin-off of HLA, founded by the same person, based on the same model, running the same scams.
We'll just have to see what happens when the state intervenes. I guess we will then know the full extent to which laws have been broken or circumvented. I'm getting some folks together now that will be crawling through all of ASR's paperwork with the state and pointing out "irregularities." I guess then we'll see where ASR stands on the legal issues.
Remember, Who, you said all of the same things about HLA and you were wrong on all counts, as proven by ORS's reclassifying HLA as a Residential Childcare Facility, which is what ASR is also - a glorified treatment center with none of the patient protections or rights. All it took was one person from one agency to start digging and the house of cards fell flat.
Look, you guys have an agenda, you throw accusations around like ASR doesn?t have licensed counselors, their licenses expired etc. and its all lies to smear them because they go against your position that there are no good TBS?s and all kids do poorly etc.
DJ, you have been caught in too many lies and fabrications in your need to suit your personal agenda?. Instead of trying to tear every building and discredit good people, you should be trying to help out some of the kids and work towards improvements in these areas.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 21, 2007, 12:49:33 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
What's Ralph Cohen's middle initial?
I smell a rat.. (http://http://license.reg.state.ma.us/public/pubLicenseQ.asp?board_code=PY&type_class=__&license_number=000004272&color=red&lb=PY)
As if that wasnt enough.
Quote
Ralph L. Cohen, M.D.
I. Physician Information
(The information in sections I - VI has been provided by the physician.)
So we have Ralph L who may have an active license but we have no outside source to verify, or we have Ralph S. who is inactive.
Which is it Cindy?
Post by: Anonymous on February 21, 2007, 12:52:50 PM
Quote
Primary Work Setting: Private Office
Business Address: 664 Main Street
Suite 54
Amherst, MA 01002
That doesn't sound like a TBS to me. This doesn't make much sense. Why would incorrect information be in a place like that?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 21, 2007, 12:54:20 PM
Quote
Look, you guys have an agenda,
So do you.
Quote
you throw accusations around like ASR doesn?t have licensed counselors, their licenses expired etc. and its all lies to smear them because they go against your position that there are no good TBS?s and all kids do poorly etc.
Sort of how you dismiss accusations without cause, claim things are on the level when obvious illegal practices are taking place, and you lie about these places all to reinforce your position that there are no bad TBS's and all kids succeed etc.
Quote
DJ, you have been caught in too many lies and fabrications in your need to suit your personal agenda?.
Like what? Follow your list off with explinations as to the numerous lies youve been caught in. Lies you made to suit your agenda.
Quote
?. Instead of trying to tear every building and discredit good people
Which good people? Ol Rudy? Is he a good person?
Quote
you should be trying to help out some of the kids and work towards improvements in these areas.
We already do that Cindy, its you that hasnt helped these kids.
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 12:56:54 PM
http://profiles.massmedboard.org/MA-Phy ... sp?ID=7087 (http://profiles.massmedboard.org/MA-Physician-Profile-View-Doctor.asp?ID=7087)
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 01:02:14 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
It's actually probably Ralph L. Googling for Ralph S. Cohen gives a professor of the subject who probably had no logical need to renew his license (as he's out of active practice).QuotePrimary Work Setting: Private Office
Business Address: 664 Main Street
Suite 54
Amherst, MA 01002
That doesn't sound like a TBS to me. This doesn't make much sense. Why would incorrect information be in a place like that?
Amherst is a neighboring town, he has a private practice.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 21, 2007, 01:03:18 PM
Post by: Troll Control on February 21, 2007, 01:04:12 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""QuoteYes, the kids and counselors broke into groups several times a week and had discussions, talked about progress,? how we doing? checks etc.
We did this in our high school growing up. Where is there a law against this. The problem with what you say and the reason you lose credibility is that you present no facts or laws to base your accusations on. What law has been broken?
If only this fantasy were true, Who.
The fact is that these are group counseling sessions, not "progress meetings." This has been abundantly documented by people who actually went thru the program (confrontation, explicit details of sexual encounters, etc). These are three times weekly "group therapy" sessions (call them what you want, they are what they are) facilitated by unlicensed staff. This is illegal and it's called "providing therapy without a license" and it's a serious matter.
Now, Who, what type of high school did you go to that had three times weekly therapy sessions? For that matter, what type of high school even has three times weekly "progress meetings" with counselors? That doesn't even pass the smell test. More BS from a BSer.
Let's not forget that ASR is a spin-off of HLA, founded by the same person, based on the same model, running the same scams.
We'll just have to see what happens when the state intervenes. I guess we will then know the full extent to which laws have been broken or circumvented. I'm getting some folks together now that will be crawling through all of ASR's paperwork with the state and pointing out "irregularities." I guess then we'll see where ASR stands on the legal issues.
Remember, Who, you said all of the same things about HLA and you were wrong on all counts, as proven by ORS's reclassifying HLA as a Residential Childcare Facility, which is what ASR is also - a glorified treatment center with none of the patient protections or rights. All it took was one person from one agency to start digging and the house of cards fell flat.
Look, you guys have an agenda, you throw accusations around like ASR doesn?t have licensed counselors, their licenses expired etc. and its all lies to smear them because they go against your position that there are no good TBS?s and all kids do poorly etc.
DJ, you have been caught in too many lies and fabrications in your need to suit your personal agenda?. Instead of trying to tear every building and discredit good people, you should be trying to help out some of the kids and work towards improvements in these areas.
So, you still can't name the allegedly licensed therapist your kid saw every week for two years? :roll:
You now also back away from your statement that your high school was just like ASR with three times weekly progress meetings with counselors? :roll:
I spend an inordinate amount of time helping kids. For years I treated kids who were victims of the programs you support - kids who were horribly abused and suffered from PTSD due to placements in facilities like ASR. Now I help them by getting abusive places shut down and getting them the hell out of there and into real treatment. What's wrong with that?
BTW, a fundamentally flawed modality can't be improved - these facilities suffer from design flaws. It needs to be scrapped and a new model made. Putting lipstick on pig doesn't change the fact that it's a pig.
Post by: Troll Control on February 21, 2007, 01:12:03 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 01:31:01 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
::crybaby:: <------ TheWho, or as he is known in the real world, Scooter Libby.
So I guess you can see that ASR has licensed counselors?
I heard a rumor that they dont use 30% recycled paper. This may be an area where you can expose them, maybe get a "Green peace" march out front of the school....there has to be something you can shut them down for... hey? You want to save face, I know you...
Oh wait, you call me silly names... that makes you feel better
Post by: RobertBruce on February 21, 2007, 01:39:57 PM
Yes or no?
Post by: Troll Control on February 21, 2007, 01:58:07 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""::crybaby:: <------ TheWho, or as he is known in the real world, Scooter Libby.
So I guess you can see that ASR has licensed counselors?
I heard a rumor that they dont use 30% recycled paper. This may be an area where you can expose them, maybe get a "Green peace" march out front of the school....there has to be something you can shut them down for... hey? You want to save face, I know you...
Oh wait, you call me silly names... that makes you feel better
No, I actually looked at their website a few minutes ago and several have no licenses, just like their teachers.
Now, Who, I've patiently waited for you to explain your high school that had group therapy three times a week and to tell me who your kid's therapist was at ASR. C'mon, Scooter, you can remember. you only dealt with her for TWO YEARS...
I'm sure once we start digging there will be plenty to shut them down with - not recylced paper, but probably unlicensed counselors and teachers would be a start. You'll read it in the (hopefully recycled) paper when my work is complete ; )
Again, Scooter, tell me who the the therapist was. And tell me about your "normal" highschool where the entire student body had three times weekly counseling sessions... :roll:
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 02:04:18 PM
Quote
So, you still can't name the allegedly licensed therapist your kid saw every week for two years?
We just proved they have licensed therapists at ASR. She saw a licensed therapist, it pretty ease to understand and believe, DJ. Give it up, anyone can see they are licensed, we established this, unless you want to make everyone believe all the kids at ASR saw a licensed therapist except my daughter?Hmmmm.
Quote
You now also back away from your statement that your high school was just like ASR with three times weekly progress meetings with counselors?
We broke into groups when I was in highschool and discussed ?How we doing? get strategies for paper assignments, working with a lab group in biology. It wasn?t 3 times a week but it was periodically. They were facilitated by a teacher or assistant. (they were not trained therapists)?nobody got hurt or went to jail because of it, no abuse occurred that I can remember
Post by: RobertBruce on February 21, 2007, 02:12:52 PM
Quote
We just proved they have licensed therapists at ASR.
No, youve shown that there might be one licensed therapist at ASR. All the others being unlicensed yet still practicing therapy.
Illegal yes or no?
Quote
She saw a licensed therapist, it pretty ease to understand and believe, DJ. Give it up, anyone can see they are licensed, we established this, unless you want to make everyone believe all the kids at ASR saw a licensed therapist except my daughter?Hmmmm.
Fine, then give us the persons name so we can verify it. In the meantime the only thing that anyone can see is that youre dodging the questions and avoiding the truth. Your typical M.O.
Quote
We broke into groups when I was in highschool and discussed ?How we doing? get strategies for paper assignments, working with a lab group in biology. It wasn?t 3 times a week but it was periodically. They were facilitated by a teacher or assistant. (they were not trained therapists)?nobody got hurt or went to jail because of it, no abuse occurred that I can remember
This is not even close to what group therapy consist of at these places, if you believe its the same thing youre dumber than I thought.
So then with that in mind the question remains:
Is group therapy being facilitated at ASR but unlicensed people?
yes or no?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 21, 2007, 02:18:07 PM
1. What points specifically do you believe you've "proven us wrong" on?
2. What is your definition of "group therapy"?
3. How do you believe kids should prove their claims of abuse?
4. What specifically have you done to help the kids locked up in these places?
5. Why did you lie claiming ignorace concerning the fact that TBS's lie to state regulators?
6. Why do these places avoid regulation if as you claim they have the kids best interest at heart?
7. What TBS's are bad in your opinion and why?
8. Why dont the people you claim to work with defend you?
9. Why havent the people mentioned in your PM's shown up?
10. Should therapy be given by unlicensed people?
11. Do you believe yourself to have high level of credibility here on fornits?
12. Are you an "axe grinder" with an agenda here?
13.How does you shipping your daughter off to a kiddie prison qualify you to commentate on the entire industry and determine what information parents need and what they dont need?
14. Since we've established that many times the murders that occur in the PTS are swept under the rug or lied about, how can you determine they should not count as homicides?
15. What are the proper procedures for killing a child?
16. Why did you change your mind regarding your feelings on regulation?
17. Why do you believe the person feeding the 300+lbs counselor should be held respondsible for the kids death at Eckerd, when the counselor not only chose to over eat, but to sit on the boy as well?
18. How many program owners do you personally know?
19. How does the fact that you claimed no evidence existed of kids being abused at ASR not translate in your mind to you dismissing their claims?
20. Since you did not experience the school for yourself how can you claim it to be positive?
Post by: Troll Control on February 21, 2007, 02:29:05 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
DJ wrote:QuoteSo, you still can't name the allegedly licensed therapist your kid saw every week for two years?
We just proved they have licensed therapists at ASR. She saw a licensed therapist, it pretty ease to understand and believe, DJ. Give it up, anyone can see they are licensed, we established this, unless you want to make everyone believe all the kids at ASR saw a licensed therapist except my daughter?Hmmmm.QuoteYou now also back away from your statement that your high school was just like ASR with three times weekly progress meetings with counselors?
We broke into groups when I was in highschool and discussed ?How we doing? get strategies for paper assignments, working with a lab group in biology. It wasn?t 3 times a week but it was periodically. They were facilitated by a teacher or assistant. (they were not trained therapists)?nobody got hurt or went to jail because of it, no abuse occurred that I can remember
At this point I don't even believe you have a daughter, but I digress.
Can you explain to me, since you can't seem to remember any details about this this therapist that you worked with for two years :roll: , how the single licensed provider at ASR sees all two hundred (my estimate, but you can correct me) kids each week for individual counseling sessions?
Also, can you explain how group therapy is conducted by unlicensed staff three times a week?
Thanks.
Post by: Deborah on February 21, 2007, 02:33:48 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
We just proved they have licensed therapists at ASR.
Two. Out of 11. Other than the error re: Cohen- forgot psychiatrists are licensed as MDs, the rest of the info is accurate
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20728 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20728)
and can be verified at
http://www.mass.gov/dpl/boards.htm (http://www.mass.gov/dpl/boards.htm)
Why aren't the Director and Assoc Director of Counseling licensed?
Post by: Deborah on February 21, 2007, 02:34:59 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I think the point is, we dont know, we are all just guessing. Is it important? Maybe to some, doesnt seem to effect the outcome "Kids going to college". Its been 12 years, the money is rolling in why bother? If I was ASR, I wouldnt be busting my butt to get certified, licensed if it wasnt going to add value to the kids or the schools they are trying to get in to. It means adding more paperwork and yearly follow-ups to do which cuts into ptofits.
If the parents make it an issue, we will push it thru, in the mean time lets keep and association with the local school system and focus on other, more important issues.
Who is WE?
Post by: Deborah on February 21, 2007, 02:38:20 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Deborah wrote:QuoteYou are off the mark here. This site exists to look at the "grey areas". If programs believe it is ethical to staff group "therapy" with unlicensed staff, then they need to disclose this to parents who are paying $6000/month and are under the assumption that their kid is being "treated" by licensed professionals. Do you have a problem with accountability. My god, that is the program mantra. Put the cards on the table and we'll see how they stack up.
Where did you hear that parents are under this impression that all the people are licensed?
From you, and the ASR staff who posted last year:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#193924 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=193924&highlight=#193924)
All 10 clinicians that we have are master's level and most are working on licensure. All 20 resident staff are bachelor's level and do not provide therapy- they provide positve adult role modeling and work closely with the clinicians and academic advisors.
On Accreditation and Licenses:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#193964 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=193964&highlight=#193964)
On Diplomas and licensing "not" required to practice counseling
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#194342 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=194342&highlight=#194342)
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 02:38:41 PM
I remember RobertBruce started calling me ?cindy? for Cindy who from whosville (from the grinch) after he lost his first (of many) debates with me. That?s how he deals with his humiliation? but you DJ!! I am surprised, any therapists that are reading must get a little giggle out of it, with you claiming to be a professional in the field and all, resorting to name calling just because you were found to be wrong and caught in yet another series of lies and had to forfeit the debate?. RobertBruce has taught you well, DJ, I can tell you two are friends?
Signed, Cindy ?Scooter? Libby
(I will expose you too, Ha,Ha)
Post by: Deborah on February 21, 2007, 02:44:32 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Look, you guys have an agenda, you throw accusations around like ASR doesn?t have licensed counselors, their licenses expired etc. and its all lies to smear them because they go against your position that there are no good TBS?s and all kids do poorly etc.
Shit or get off the pot, Who. You've shown that you are capable of doing research. I provided the link where professional licenses can be verified. Go to that site and copy and paste the information for the licensed counselor. There are 2 of 11 licensed.
Post by: Troll Control on February 21, 2007, 02:45:39 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Scooter Libby, I like that!! Better than Cindy, I think.
I remember RobertBruce started calling me ?cindy? for Cindy who from whosville (from the grinch) after he lost his first (of many) debates with me. That?s how he deals with his humiliation? but you DJ!! I am surprised, any therapists that are reading must get a little giggle out of it, with you claiming to be a professional in the field and all, resorting to name calling just because you were found to be wrong and caught in yet another series of lies and had to forfeit the debate?. RobertBruce has taught you well, DJ, I can tell you two are friends?
Signed, Cindy ?Scooter? Libby
(I will expose you too, Ha,Ha)
I call you Scooter because you seem to have a serious memory defecit - a selective one.
I just want to know who the licensed therapist was that worked with your kid for two years. How can you sit there and say you "don't remember," Scooter? I believe you are lying, not forgetting. Prove me wrong, Scootie.
Now, just in case you had selective memory again, Deb just documented your earlier posts on this subject which ahppen to be directly contraindicative of what you are now posting. Can you explain which set of posts is the lie and which one is the truth? Or did you "forget" that, too?
Just waiting for an answer, not more crying. You can cry and stamp your feet and wail about how unfairly people treat you, too, just answer the questions while you're at it.
Name the allegedly licensed therapist.
Tell me which set of posts on this topic are your true ones and which are the lies. Can't have it both ways, Scootie.
Post by: Troll Control on February 21, 2007, 02:59:24 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Deborah wrote:QuoteYou are off the mark here. This site exists to look at the "grey areas". If programs believe it is ethical to staff group "therapy" with unlicensed staff, then they need to disclose this to parents who are paying $6000/month and are under the assumption that their kid is being "treated" by licensed professionals. Do you have a problem with accountability. My god, that is the program mantra. Put the cards on the table and we'll see how they stack up.
Where did you hear that parents are under this impression that all the people are licensed?
From you, and the ASR staff who posted last year:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#193924 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=193924&highlight=#193924)
All 10 clinicians that we have are master's level and most are working on licensure. All 20 resident staff are bachelor's level and do not provide therapy- they provide positve adult role modeling and work closely with the clinicians and academic advisors.
On Accreditation and Licenses:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#193964 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=193964&highlight=#193964)
On Diplomas and licensing "not" required to practice counseling
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#194342 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=194342&highlight=#194342)
Oh, Deborah, this is classic. I can't wait to watch Scooter tie himself in knots trying to explain or avoid the discrepencies...
Post by: RobertBruce on February 21, 2007, 03:00:07 PM
Quote
I remember RobertBruce started calling me ?cindy? for Cindy who from whosville (from the grinch) after he lost his first (of many) debates with me. That?s how he deals with his humiliation
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Cindy people in my office are wondering what could possibly be that funny. I really laughed that hard.
My memory must be as bad as yours because I cannot recall a single debate in which you ever won or proved your point by any means, with me or anyone else. Of course it could just be because such a thing never occured.
Looking back you and I have really only had two real debates both of which youve lost.
The first being your claim that HLA firing their school nurse wasnt a problem and they were still operating as well as 75% of the schools in GA.
You were proven to be wrong on that claim.
The other being the current debate of your claim that TBS's are safer than Public Schools. While youre still spinning your wheels trying to prove the point, everyone else can see youve already lost.
In between those were numerous mini debates or arguments that werent exclusivly between you and I.
The time you claimed there were only 10,000 psychologist in the US and therefore only 1% signed off on the resolution condeming the BM industry.
Or the time you claimed no kid had ever been murdered in a TBS.
Or the time you claimed that I had stated the best way to handle teens with issues is to ignore them.
Or the time you claimed the majority of posters on fornits claimed the best way to handle teens with issues is to ignore them.
There are many many more Cindy, I'd be happy to add them if you'd like to press the issue.
As to why I call you Cindy, I do it because I know it bothers you. No other reason. The only humiliation involved is your own, this of course coming from you being proven wrong over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Delude yourself however you like Cindy, no one else is buying it.
Post by: Troll Control on February 21, 2007, 03:05:08 PM
Quote
Delude yourself however you like Cindy, no one else is buying it.
Scooter's going to say "We're buying it." Meaning him and all the tiny voices inside his shrunken head...
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 03:07:03 PM
Quote
I just want to know who the licensed therapist was that worked with your kid for two years.
No
Quote
Now, just in case you had selective memory again, Deb just documented your earlier posts on this subject which ahppen to be directly contraindicative of what you are now posting. Can you explain which set of posts is the lie and which one is the truth? Or did you "forget" that, too?
Door number 2? who cares, DJ really. You are a disgrace and an embarrassment to yourself. You try to smear ASR and we prove you wrong in all areas and now your feathers are ruffled and you want to prove I contradicted myself, so be it?.. how does all of this stroke your ego, I mean help the kids?
If I didnt look at who was posting I dont think I could tell if it was you or Bob posting, you guys are amazingly alike.....
Libby
Post by: RobertBruce on February 21, 2007, 03:10:20 PM
Cindy why dont you run off and cool down for a bit? Maybe watch your favorite show "Deal or No Deal" the dumbest fucking show on earth.
S.L.A.M! No deal!
Ha, Ha, Ha
If at this point you cannot recognize that youve been beaten and proven to contridict yourself Id say youve lost touch with reality.
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 03:13:38 PM
Does anyone know what the laws are so we can see how the schools stand against established laws or procedures? This may be a good start.
How can we say 2 out of 11, 9 out of 11 or 10 out of 11 people licensed is good enough? Should they be shut down if they have only10 out of 11 licensed? What is the standard and who established it. Without this we cannot judge or ask leverage for change.
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 03:18:48 PM
Quote
......the licensing issue will go on but likei said places, all treatment centers use so unlicensed staff. Oh by the way i called my friend at ASR and was told they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test.
well i am off...please keep some more open minds folks...i think the debate is important but let us not get so caught in trying to prove each other wrong that we forget what we are fighting for
Thanks Guest,
I also note that Deborah compiled a list of names also.
Does anyone know if this is the norm? Should more be licensed? What should we be pushing for?
Post by: Troll Control on February 21, 2007, 03:21:16 PM
Quote
Door number 2? who cares, DJ really. You are a disgrace and an embarrassment to yourself. You try to smear ASR and we prove you wrong in all areas and now your feathers are ruffled and you want to prove I contradicted myself, so be it?.. how does all of this stroke your ego, I mean help the kids?
You've proven nothing. You came up with a single licensed counselor - far from your claim that ALL are licensed.
Can you explain how this isngle licensed provider sees every kid on campus every week for an hour session? Please explain.
You never answered my other question either, Scootie. Who was this allegedly licensed counselor that your kid saw for two years, with whom you were intimately involved, who did follow-up care and who's name you just can't seem to remember?
Did you receive a severe blow to the head that may have caused such significant memory loss? Are you under the care of a doctor for this serious memory defecit? Or are you unable to answer this simple question that goes to your credibility because you suffer from productive aphasia? There must be some reason why you can remember every little detail of your kid's treatment except the identity of her therapist, right?
Now, don't start crying and throwing another tantrum, just answer calmly.
Also, can you explain why an ASR staff member (who presumably knows more than you do about ASR) would come right out and say "We're not licensed and we don't need to be" while you go on claiming you "proved" ASR is a licensed provider? Please, enlighten the readers about this blatant contradiction.
I, for one, tend to believe the guy that worked there, you know, the guy that scuttled your entire argument?
Post by: Troll Control on February 21, 2007, 03:30:19 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Guest wrote:Quote......the licensing issue will go on but likei said places, all treatment centers use so unlicensed staff. Oh by the way i called my friend at ASR and was told they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test.
well i am off...please keep some more open minds folks...i think the debate is important but let us not get so caught in trying to prove each other wrong that we forget what we are fighting for
Thanks Guest,
I also note that Deborah compiled a list of names also.
Does anyone know if this is the norm? Should more be licensed? What should we be pushing for?
Great. And I called one of my friends in the Marines and he told me we found the WMD in Iraq! We're all set!
All we can go by is what they advertise. Right now on their staff page they are showing 2 of 11 counselors licensed.
In NY or in GA, this is considered grossly inadequate supervision and would result in censure for the overseeing practitioner and possible revocation of his/her license as well as problems for the licensing applicants working under him..
I suspect MA laws are similar and one licensed provider overseeing 4.5 counselors would be illegal. We can verify that, though.
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 03:40:48 PM
Quote
You never answered my other question either, Scootie. Who was this allegedly licensed counselor that your kid saw for two years, with whom you were intimately involved, who did follow-up care and who's name you just can't seem to remember?
Question and answer period?does this remind you of anyone?
Quote
Did you receive a severe blow to the head that may have caused such significant memory loss? Are you under the care of a doctor for this serious memory defecit? Or are you unable to answer this simple question that goes to your credibility because you suffer from productive aphasia? There must be some reason why you can remember every little detail of your kid's treatment except the identity of her therapist, right?
Ha,Ha, I cant believe you are this upset?no I cant remember, but I am with you, if I cant remember then we should revoke her license, seems only fair.
Quote
Now, don't start crying and throwing another tantrum, just answer calmly.
Oh, you took this line from Bob, Bob is teaching you all is nifty dialog.
Quote
Also, can you explain why an ASR staff member (who presumably knows more than you do about ASR) would come right out and say "We're not licensed and we don't need to be" while you go on claiming you "proved" ASR is a licensed provider? Please, enlighten the readers about this blatant contradiction.
Here is what we know:
Guest wrote:
?the licensing issue will go on but likei said places, all treatment centers use so unlicensed staff. Oh by the way i called my friend at ASR and was told they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test. ....."
I think it is clear they have licensed employees, at least to me.
Post by: Troll Control on February 21, 2007, 03:43:29 PM
Quote
Guest wrote:
"......the licensing issue will go on but likei said places, all treatment centers use so unlicensed staff."
Well, this is not entirely true. I know of several that employ only licensed providers, but that's not central to the point - most facilities do have unlicensed staff, but they are required to be overseen properly.
My point here is that you are an ASR "insider" and here you are calling ASR a "treatment center." If ASR is a treatment center, why are they not licensed as one? Why do they advertise as a "school" when schools are prevented from providing the services ASR allegedly provides?
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 03:44:23 PM
Quote
I suspect MA laws are similar and one licensed provider overseeing 4.5 counselors would be illegal. We can verify that, though.
Do it!! Lets not all speculate!!
Post by: Troll Control on February 21, 2007, 03:46:37 PM
Post by: Troll Control on February 21, 2007, 03:48:43 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Scooter Libby, I like that!! Better than Cindy, I think.
I remember RobertBruce started calling me ?cindy? for Cindy who from whosville (from the grinch) after he lost his first (of many) debates with me. That?s how he deals with his humiliation? but you DJ!! I am surprised, any therapists that are reading must get a little giggle out of it, with you claiming to be a professional in the field and all, resorting to name calling just because you were found to be wrong and caught in yet another series of lies and had to forfeit the debate?. RobertBruce has taught you well, DJ, I can tell you two are friends?
Signed, Cindy ?Scooter? Libby
(I will expose you too, Ha,Ha)
I call you Scooter because you seem to have a serious memory defecit - a selective one.
I just want to know who the licensed therapist was that worked with your kid for two years. How can you sit there and say you "don't remember," Scooter? I believe you are lying, not forgetting. Prove me wrong, Scootie.
Now, just in case you had selective memory again, Deb just documented your earlier posts on this subject which ahppen to be directly contraindicative of what you are now posting. Can you explain which set of posts is the lie and which one is the truth? Or did you "forget" that, too?
Just waiting for an answer, not more crying. You can cry and stamp your feet and wail about how unfairly people treat you, too, just answer the questions while you're at it.
Name the allegedly licensed therapist.
Tell me which set of posts on this topic are your true ones and which are the lies. Can't have it both ways, Scootie.
Still waiting for those answers, Scootie. I'll check in tomorrow to see what you've come up with. Maybe you can just ask your daughter for her therapist's name - and don't try to tell me she forgot, too. I mean, you're so close, and you talk so much, just ask her. It shouldn't be a problem.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 21, 2007, 03:52:28 PM
Quote
Here is what we know:
Guest wrote:
?the licensing issue will go on but likei said places, all treatment centers use so unlicensed staff. Oh by the way i called my friend at ASR and was told they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test. ....."
I think it is clear they have licensed employees, at least to me.
Cindy they could have licensed janitors, it makes no difference when it comes to therapy. You yourself stand by the claim that they only have one licensed mental health counselor. That means that legally he/she is the only one can practice therapy. So then with the estimate of kids currently being 200 and there only being 168 hours in the week how is this done?
By your own numbers youve proven that therapy is being given by unlicensed therapist during group therapy. No way around it.
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 03:52:35 PM
Quote
Still waiting for those answers, Scootie
Check previous posts, already covered that one. There has been a lot of writing back and forth so it was probably easy to miss. If you don?t find it I will give you a link...let me know.
Post by: Nihilanthic on February 21, 2007, 03:52:50 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 04:05:55 PM
There were some comments that ASR didn?t have licensed Counselors and Therapists. Deborah went off and documented what she could and has a list of names from the school in the Aspen Forum. This shows the name of the licensed therapist (and yes his license is up to date!!) which puts that question to rest. Next we established that their staff is licensed and as of today ASR looks like this:
they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test.
The remaining question is this sufficient? And I think so far people think so. It appears they have enough oversight?.
I would like to break here to update the numbers we are tracking
Post by: RobertBruce on February 21, 2007, 04:20:04 PM
Quote
This shows the name of the licensed therapist (and yes his license is up to date!!) which puts that question to rest
Not really, we only know that he claims to be licensed. No outside source has verified it.
Quote
Next we established that their staff is licensed and as of today ASR looks like this:
they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test
Agreed. They have one licensed mental health professional who provides individual therapy for 200 kids per week......somehow.
Quote
The remaining question is this sufficient?
No the remaining question is is this legal? Whether or not something is sufficent seems to be typical of you and the industry. "Can we get away with this?"
The answer to both questions is no.
Quote
And I think so far people think so
So far parents of kids still locked up at ASR either dont know or dont care. Or like you were easily brainwashed. No one who cares about their kid would be okay with this scenario, espically when you throw in the amount of money these people are spending.
Quote
It appears they have enough oversight?.
This according to you. The state may not agree, we'll have to find out.
Quote
I would like to break here to update the numbers we are tracking
Why? None of your nonsense has changed and no one has asked to see it again.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 21, 2007, 05:01:22 PM
http://www.swiftriver.com/staff.htm (http://www.swiftriver.com/staff.htm)
Listed among the bullets describing the "team model"
There mentioned we find listed "group counseling 3x's/week"
So it seems Cindy that your beloved ASR disagrees with you, it isnt some "group meeting" as you would have people believe to "see how we are doing" but rather group counseling, otherwise known as group therapy.
You were wrong, we were right.
Group therapy is being facilitated by unlicensed counselors.
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 05:23:08 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Deborah wrote:QuoteYou are off the mark here. This site exists to look at the "grey areas". If programs believe it is ethical to staff group "therapy" with unlicensed staff, then they need to disclose this to parents who are paying $6000/month and are under the assumption that their kid is being "treated" by licensed professionals. Do you have a problem with accountability. My god, that is the program mantra. Put the cards on the table and we'll see how they stack up.
Where did you hear that parents are under this impression that all the people are licensed?
From you, and the ASR staff who posted last year:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#193924 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=193924&highlight=#193924)
All 10 clinicians that we have are master's level and most are working on licensure. All 20 resident staff are bachelor's level and do not provide therapy- they provide positve adult role modeling and work closely with the clinicians and academic advisors.
On Accreditation and Licenses:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#193964 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=193964&highlight=#193964)
On Diplomas and licensing "not" required to practice counseling
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... ht=#194342 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=194342&highlight=#194342)
Thanks Deborah, I wish I could find information that quickly!! What I meant by my question was I am not sure every parent believes that all the staff are licensed. I didn?t assume everyone had a license when I my daughter attended. I knew my Daughters therapist was licensed and that some of the counselors were licensed, but not everyone.
If you were going into a hospital for an operation I think you could expect the surgeon to be licensed but many of the other people could be in training and working towards their license. The person who sews you up may be a student with no degree yet! Not sure of all the rules but they would be my expectations.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 21, 2007, 05:35:00 PM
Quote
Thanks Deborah, I wish I could find information that quickly!!
Sorry, you arent smart enough.
Quote
What I meant by my question was I am not sure every parent believes that all the staff are licensed.
Ohhhhh, but thats not what you said at all, and now youre backpeddeling to try and save face. Too late though.
Quote
I didn?t assume everyone had a license when I my daughter attended. I knew my Daughters therapist was licensed and that some of the counselors were licensed, but not everyone.
Thats because you dont give a shit about your daughter. You subjected her to treatment from an unlicensed, unsupervised trainee.
Quote
If you were going into a hospital for an operation I think you could expect the surgeon to be licensed but many of the other people could be in training and working towards their license. The person who sews you up may be a student with no degree yet!
Yes professor but a med student cannot practice medicine until he is an actual doctor, and even after that his time spent in residency is heavily supervised, not this "turn em loose and see what happens" attitude that you and ASR seem to share.
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 07:38:25 PM
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 [/u]
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicides. ( Data set still open, 72 sources reviewed, mostly emails and news articles)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2004 thru June 2005
The data from the NCES is incomplete at this time. They are reporting an increase in suicide rates (at school) of over 100% from the previous year, but this is still in line with normal fluctuations from year to year and is below the 2002-2003 year levels.
Outside a TBS: Data not posted as of 2/20/2007
Inside a TBS Data not posted as of 2/20/2007
Red -- Data Point is has not yet been verified
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: RobertBruce on February 21, 2007, 07:50:52 PM
1. What points specifically do you believe you've "proven us wrong" on?
2. What is your definition of "group therapy"?
3. How do you believe kids should prove their claims of abuse?
4. What specifically have you done to help the kids locked up in these places?
5. Why did you lie claiming ignorace concerning the fact that TBS's lie to state regulators?
6. Why do these places avoid regulation if as you claim they have the kids best interest at heart?
7. What TBS's are bad in your opinion and why?
8. Why dont the people you claim to work with defend you?
9. Why havent the people mentioned in your PM's shown up?
10. Should therapy be given by unlicensed people?
11. Do you believe yourself to have high level of credibility here on fornits?
12. Are you an "axe grinder" with an agenda here?
13.How does you shipping your daughter off to a kiddie prison qualify you to commentate on the entire industry and determine what information parents need and what they dont need?
14. Since we've established that many times the murders that occur in the PTS are swept under the rug or lied about, how can you determine they should not count as homicides?
15. What are the proper procedures for killing a child?
16. Why did you change your mind regarding your feelings on regulation?
17. Why do you believe the person feeding the 300+lbs counselor should be held respondsible for the kids death at Eckerd, when the counselor not only chose to over eat, but to sit on the boy as well?
18. How many program owners do you personally know?
19. How does the fact that you claimed no evidence existed of kids being abused at ASR not translate in your mind to you dismissing their claims?
20. Since you did not experience the school for yourself how can you claim it to be positive?
Post by: Deborah on February 21, 2007, 08:04:08 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
DJ wrote:QuoteI just want to know who the licensed therapist was that worked with your kid for two years.
No
Finally a straight and honest response. Why all the rigamaroll about not remembering?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 21, 2007, 08:08:48 PM
It all depends on which monkey is steering the U.S.S. Cindy.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 21, 2007, 08:10:48 PM
(http://http://badgas.co.uk/animals/monkeys/monkey_033.jpg)
Post by: TheWho on February 21, 2007, 08:19:25 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""DJ wrote:QuoteI just want to know who the licensed therapist was that worked with your kid for two years.
No
Finally a straight and honest response. Why all the rigamaroll about not remembering?
Because I don?t remember. I talked to my daughter and she remembers her as "Dr. Anna"... I am not going to call the school and ask people, what?s the point? We all know ASR has licensed therapists and if parents want further proof they can do what I did and ask to meet with them and satisfy themselves to their own level. I think that is the point here at fornits is to get the parents to look closer at what they are doing, make sure the kids have the proper care?..
All my answers are as honest as I can be, Deborah, that wasn?t nice to insinuate I was being misleading.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 21, 2007, 08:29:27 PM
For example:
Quote
We all know ASR has licensed therapists
This statement is misleading, or better put an example of you lying.
ASR does not have licensed therapists. They have A licensed therapist, that is somehow supposed to provide 200 kids with one hour each of therapy per week. Something youve still yet to explain.
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 08:17:54 AM
Quote
The Who said:
"All my answers are as honest as I can be, Deborah, that wasn?t nice to insinuate I was being misleading."
Oh, Scooter, don't cry again. Nobody is insinuating that you are misleading, we're openly stating that you are a liar. See, no need to read between the lines.
Now, for the uninitiated, let me translate your statement.
Quote
TheWho meant:
"All my answers are as honest as I can be, Deborah, I'm a habitual liar for chrissake!. Plus, if I actually told the truth, my referral money would dry up :cry: . That wasn?t nice to insinuate I was being misleading, you don't give me enough credit! I wasn't misleading, I was just making it up out of whole cloth! I'm hurt by this lack of credit afforded me! ::crybaby:: ."
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 08:31:33 AM
Quote
TheWho said:
"they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test."
Let me cite your source for you so nobody is confused where you get your "facts" from. TheWho, now repeating this information as verified fact, got this blurb from an anonymous guest poster - no second source or any attempt to verify it.
So, let's be clear, TheWho believes any positive statement about the program that butters his bread is a fact, regardless of the source, but when real facts with documentation are offered, he dismisses them out of hand because the person who posted the verifiable facts "has an agenda."
Boy, oh boy, Scooter. Your credibility is circling the toilet drain again.
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 09:13:04 AM
The truth eventually rises to the surface, you can?t keep it hidden forever .??..
So here is what the rest of us is looking at:
?they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test?
So they have3 or 4 additional staff who seem qualified and are waiting for the next available test period. It is good to see ASR continues to train and push for their staff to further their education and get licensed. It shows they are responsible and dedicated to the kids and a continuous positive growth process.
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 09:27:29 AM
Quote
TheWho, directly copying and pasting an anonymous poster and holding it out as fact said:
"?they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test?
So they have3 or 4 additional staff who seem qualified and are waiting for the next available test period."
Hey, Scooter, how come you didn't cite your source for this information? Where did you get it from???
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 09:36:14 AM
Quote
Scooter "TheWho" Libby said:
"Because I don?t remember. I talked to my daughter and she remembers her as "Dr. Anna"... "
So, Scootie, let me get this straight; I don't want to mischaracterize what you're saying here...
Your daughter saw a licensed therapist every week at ASR for two years, right?
Now, you want people to believe that you don't know who that therapist was even though you "saw diplomas on the wall" and "researched her on the internet," right?
Furthermore, you are also now stating that you "asked (your) daughter" the name of this therapist that she had intimate personal dialogue with for two years and she can't remember the therapist's name either, right?
Now, since I have characterized your statements as you made them, can you please explain how both you and your daighter have the same memory lapse about the same person with whom you both worked extensively for two years?
I don't think anybody believes this. Just another shot in the foot for you, Scooter.
BTW, how many years in prison do you think the real Scooter is going to get today when a jury of 12 sane men and women convict him for lying just like like you do while claiming memory loss just like you do?
Seriously, Scootie, your nonsense doesn't pass the "olfactory bullshit detector."
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 09:58:45 AM
If I was considering having my son or daughter attend ASR I would simply ask to speak with the Therapists, get their names and give them a call and get comfortable with them as I did. I wouldn?t rely solely on what some person named ?thewho?, ?Dysfunction Junction? or ?Milk gargling death penalty? told me from the internet.
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 10:08:13 AM
Quote
Lil' Scooter said:
"My daughter does remember her, very well, in fact. She told me it was Doctor Anna. I said do you remember her last name? She said she never knew it, just knew her by Doctor Anna. This common with kids, I believe. As far as my memory ?..argh, it is frustrating, I have always been awful with peoples names?we had conference calls and she would call me at specified times or we would communicate by mail sometimes, her last name has just escaped me."
Hmmmmm.... Worked with her for two years and set up aftercare, sat in front of her desk with her name placard on it, read her diplomas off the wall, had sessions in her office 104 times, yet can't remember her name....?
Suuuuuuuuure, Scooter. That sounds perfectly plausible to me. :roll:
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 10:23:50 AM
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 10:24:48 AM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
QuoteThe Who said:
"All my answers are as honest as I can be, Deborah, that wasn?t nice to insinuate I was being misleading."
Oh, Scooter, don't cry again. Nobody is insinuating that you are misleading, we're openly stating that you are a liar. See, no need to read between the lines.
Actually, I thought he was finally being honest with that response. He knows the therapist's name and finally just said "No", I'm not providing it.
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 10:33:16 AM
I, for one, don't even share your optimism about his being truthful on this item. I think he just lies about everything.
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 10:40:02 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
If I was considering having my son or daughter attend ASR I would simply ask to speak with the Therapists, get their names and give them a call and get comfortable with them as I did. I wouldn?t rely solely on what some person named ?thewho?, ?Dysfunction Junction? or ?Milk gargling death penalty? told me from the internet.
That advice is not adequate. According to HLA, they had 42 Masters Level Counselors, Certified teachers, and an MD, among other things.....
Turns out they had one licensed professional, teachers weren't certified and some were crossed utilized (violation of SACS accreditation), some (even management) had degress from diploma mills, and get this, the MDs license had been revoked because he stold drugs for his own use.
One has to do their own research IF it's important to them.
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 10:41:40 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Its awful, I know. I remember one Thanksgiving I came home from college and went to a Thanksgiving day football game at my old high school with some friends and my girlfriend at the time. Dam, didn?t you know my old Trigonometry teacher comes over to me and I drew a complete blank. We called him Mister ?K? (between the kids and sometimes in class) because he had this long last name, I think it was Greek. Well anyway I introduced him to my girlfriend as Mr. K but felt a little embarrassed as he corrected me and pronounced his full last name to her. I knew this guy very well, too, because he also was an assistant track coach when I ran track, but the name escaped me at the time. Some people can meet someone and remember their name forever, I am just not one of them, I really struggle in that area.
Believe me, that's not the only area in which you're struggling.
You can say you "forgot," but I think most people reading understand that you're just not honest (your weakest suit is honesty).
You know, you've told so many different stories, Scooter, that you just get them mixed up. This isn't a memory problem per se because if any fully functioning person had spun as many yarns as you have, they'd have a hard time keeping it straight, too.
So, your problem isn't your memory, it's your habit of constantly lying that's caught up to you.
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 10:53:29 AM
Quote
So, your problem isn't your memory, it's your habit of constantly lying that's caught up to you.
Believe me DJ, no matter how hard you try to paint me?.I am never going to join you at your level . We will leave that area to you?speaking of which... So you are still sticking with your facts that they have no licensed counselors? No licensed Therapist? Breaking the law?
They may be guilty of not using recycled paper? I could look into that for you if you like?
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 11:01:18 AM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""If I was considering having my son or daughter attend ASR I would simply ask to speak with the Therapists, get their names and give them a call and get comfortable with them as I did. I wouldn?t rely solely on what some person named ?thewho?, ?Dysfunction Junction? or ?Milk gargling death penalty? told me from the internet.
That advice is not adequate. According to HLA, they had 42 Masters Level Counselors, Certified teachers, and an MD, among other things.....
Turns out they had one licensed professional, teachers weren't certified and some were crossed utilized (violation of SACS accreditation), some (even management) had degress from diploma mills, and get this, the MDs license had been revoked because he stold drugs for his own use.
One has to do their own research IF it's important to them.
Good point, Deb. These places lie like rugs.
At HLA the "licensed therapist," "Dr." Sisk, was actually not a doctor at all - he got his degree for a $5000 payment to an unaccredited diploma mill. He wasn't a doctor, nor was he licensed, but, hey, HLA didn't care about those type of details! As long as they said he was a doctor, that was good enough.
All the while he was employed the owner was saying "Don't worry about it. Everything's fine."
So, you'll have to forgive some of us who live in the real world, Scooter, if we can't take what you or ASR or some anonymous ASR supporter say for the truth.
Provide the names of the people you call "licensed counselors" and we'll verify with the state to see if you're accurate. No big deal. Just give the names of the ones you claim to have "proven" are licensed and we'll follow up with the state.
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 11:13:57 AM
Quote
Scooter Libby Jr. said:
"Believe me DJ, no matter how hard you try to paint me?.I am never going to join you at your level ."
Just stating the obvious, Scooter.
To join me at my level you'll first require some semblance of a college education, a functioning cerebrum, and honesty. I'm quite sure none of those are going to come to pass.
Now how about those names of the counselors you have "proven" to be licensed...?
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 11:19:09 AM
Quote
Provide the names of the people you call "licensed counselors" and we'll verify with the state to see if you're accurate. No big deal. Just give the names of the ones you claim to have "proven" are licensed and we'll follow up with the state.
The burden of proof is on your end. I would not put their names on this site.
You are trying to make the readers believe that they have no licensed counselors or therapists and have been in business for 10 years. The 1,000's of kids who attended and their parents know otherwise.
Let me give you an example, DJ, If someone were to say to a group that they looked out the window last week and the sky was blue, the group would probably shrug their shoulders and say, sure okay. Then you said you looked out the window and it was bright red, I believe the group would have a raised eye brow and would ask for some further proof, like maybe a photo.
So my point is that schools typically have employees who are licensed and degreed and ASR is no exception. If you are trying to convince us that this is not the case, knock yourself out. You were provided with an up to date status and you don?t believe it? so you need to roll your sleeves up and prove the school wrong.
I think the parents reading will understand this also and I suggest they call the school if they want to get more comfortable with specific credentials, as I did. That way they don?t have to rely on my information or yours.
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 11:27:09 AM
Quote
Scooter Libby Jr. said:
The burden of proof is on your end. I would not put their names on this site.
Whoa...Hold on a sec here Scootie-pie. You've been saying for two days now that you "proved" ASR's counselors are licensed (you originally said "all of them" but since backpedaled to "some" and can't even name those ones). How did you "prove" it?
If you're going to reverse the course of logical arguments as they've been held since the time of Socrates, I guess that's fine, as the research has already been done by Deborah.
Here's the facts:
ASR has two licensed providers out of a staff of eleven listed on their website.
Now, Scooter, what was so hard about that?
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 11:34:29 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
So they have3 or 4 additional staff who seem qualified and are waiting for the next available test period. It is good to see ASR continues to train and push for their staff to further their education and get licensed. It shows they are responsible and dedicated to the kids and a continuous positive growth process.
What a steaming pile.
Who are the 3 or 4 waiting to take the test?
In the meantime,
Assoc Dir of Counseling, Michael Valuski's (MA is Criminal Justice, certified Drug and Alcohol Addictions Counselor) has been there since August 2004.
Director of Counseling, Frank Bartolomeo's (The Clinician spoken of) has been there since Jan 2005.
Clearly, they've missed a few testing opportunities. :question:
When are exams held?
Mental Health Counselors:
The National Clinical Mental Health Counseling Exam (NCMHCE) is administered four (4) times a year in Massachusetts. Applicants register for the exam on their own without pre-approval from the Board. Contact the Board for dates and registration information.
Marriage and Family Therapists:
The National Marital and Family Therapy Examination is held twice a year during testing windows. You must submit an application and an official transcript to the Board in order to sit for the exam. The Board determines your eligibility to take the exam based on your education. Click here to download an application.
Rehabilitation Counselors:
The Rehabilitation Counselor examination is the national exam administered by the Commission for Rehabilitation Counselor Certification (CRCC) twice a year in the spring and fall. You must submit an application and an official transcript to the Board in order to sit for the exam. The Board must pre-approve you to take the exam. If you are already a nationally certified CRC, you do not need to take the exam. Click here to download an application.
Educational Psychologists:
All candidates must contact the Educational Testing Service at (609) 771-7395 for National School Psychology Examination (ETS/NTE Test #40) dates and registration information.
Social Workers
The examinations are offered on a daily basis by the Association of Social Work Boards--a national organization which sponsors the exam for most licensing jurisdictions. Prior to scheduling an examination you must be "pre-screeened" for licensure. You may download the application and all necessary forms on our website.
Psychologists
How often is the Jurisprudence exam given?
The Jurisprudence examination is offered daily. Once approved by the Board, applicants can schedule their examinations through PCS. PCS will mail all approved applicants the required scheduling form. If your application was approved prior to November 2004, please contact the Board office so that your approval information can be sent to PCS.
How often is the National Exam (EPPP) given?
Massachusetts has adopted the computerized version of the EPPP exam. Once approved by the Board, candidates can take this exam on a daily basis through Professional Credentialing Services (PCS).
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 11:43:55 AM
So lets see, you said you reviewed their web site and checked the backgrounds yourself or Deborah did and found 2 of the counselors who were licensed. When was the web sight updated? Do you typically find websites to be up to date? I am not saying they are not, just asking the question.
I have some information that is current this week:
?they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test?
So there seems to be a discrepancy between our numbers. If it was me I would check with the school, the web site could be six months old who knows?
So now that we have this, what are the regulations? How many licensed counselors does a school need?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 11:45:58 AM
http://www.parentcheckin.com/staff_pict ... 4F2D70%7D# (http://www.parentcheckin.com/staff_pictures_external.asp?progid=%7B9239C59D-474B-445B-9A54-C4C4AD4F2D70%7D#)
That is the entire staff list for ASR.
http://license.reg.state.ma.us/public/l ... lue&board= (http://license.reg.state.ma.us/public/licque.asp?query=personal&color=blue&board=)
That is the search engine for professional licenses in Massachusettes.
Just run every person who has a title of "counselor" or therapist" through the search engine and see if a license comes up.
Or I could save you the trouble.
Not a single one of them did.
In fact the only person on there with a position related to counseling who did come up is our old friend Ralph Cohen, who according to the state of Massachusettes has an expire licensed that he cannot renew.
So then we are left with the fact that ASR apparently has no licensed counselors of any kind. They have unlicensed staff performing not just individual counseling, but group therapy as well.
There is no question this illegal, let's get on it.
Oh and Cindy, just to move the conversation forward I went ahead and ran a search for a "Dr. Anna" as well, there are currently three Dr. Anna's operating in Mass. Their names begin with C, L, and M respectively. Run a search and see if any of them ring a bell for you.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 11:49:26 AM
Quote
DJ, You came thru!!! So we agree that ASR has licensed staff!!!
Licensed staff perhaps, none however who are licensed to be providing therapy.
Look it up yourself Cindy its all right there in front of you. Just make sure you set the search engine to Psychologist.
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 12:07:06 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
DJ Wrote:QuoteProvide the names of the people you call "licensed counselors" and we'll verify with the state to see if you're accurate. No big deal. Just give the names of the ones you claim to have "proven" are licensed and we'll follow up with the state.
The burden of proof is on your end. I would not put their names on this site.
You are trying to make the readers believe that they have no licensed counselors or therapists and have been in business for 10 years. The 1,000's of kids who attended and their parents know otherwise.
The burden of proof in on DJs end, but you are withholding the information necessary to prove anything. That is just sooo program of you. Why wouldn't you put their names on Fornits. It is public information, as is their licensing status with the state of Mass.
More WhoLogic:
Quote
So my point is that schools typically have employees who are licensed and degreed and ASR is no exception. If you are trying to convince us that this is not the case, knock yourself out.
Quote
You were provided with an up to date status and you don?t believe it? so I want you to roll your sleeves up and prove the school wrong.
Prove the "school" wrong? When did that become the issue? Are you implying that the anon poster was a spokesperson for ASR? And that was proof? The current staffs status has already been posted. 2 of 11 licensed.
Quote
I think the parents reading will understand this also and I suggest they call the school if they want to get more comfortable with specific credentials, as I did. That way they don?t have to rely on my information or yours.
They shouldn't rely on the staff/"schools" information either. Best to check for themselves. If they are discerning, they will access the links to state agencies that has been provided.
Another question while we're on the topic. What is Aspen's definition of "Clinical Counselor". Only a few of the bios list their education/ degrees. I assume these are the people leading the Group Therapy and issuing consequences, what HLA called Peer Group Counselors.
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 12:07:44 PM
The man has an active license!
http://profiles.massmedboard.org/MA-Phy ... sp?ID=7087 (http://profiles.massmedboard.org/MA-Physician-Profile-View-Doctor.asp?ID=7087)
you people are fumbling all over yourselves. If you are going to try to make a school look bad at least double check your sources.
This is why I don?t believe any of your back ground checks?. Of course they don?t have licenses if you check the wrong state or if they moved from one state to another they will let their license expire in the old state
Parents: Check with the schools, don?t believe this stuff, it is loaded with agenda!!!!!
Post by: Ganja on February 22, 2007, 12:13:45 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Parents: Check with the schools, don?t believe this stuff, it is loaded with agenda!!!!!
Yes I'm sure they will tell the whole truth about their program; they won't try to cover anything up or anything....
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 12:17:15 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Stooge ? The school is in Massachusetts not Connecticut.
The man has an active license!
http://profiles.massmedboard.org/MA-Phy ... sp?ID=7087 (http://profiles.massmedboard.org/MA-Physician-Profile-View-Doctor.asp?ID=7087)
you people are fumbling all over yourselves. If you are going to try to make a school look bad at least double check your sources.
This is why I don?t believe any of your back ground checks?. Of course they don?t have licenses if you check the wrong state or if they moved from one state to another they will let their license expire in the old state
Parents: Check with the schools, don?t believe this stuff, it is loaded with agenda!!!!!
I think he's really lost it now.
Wouldn't it be a hoot to find out that Who is actually a bored mental patient who has no experience with the industry. Just stumbled onto Fornits one day, read up on the industry and has been trolling ever since.
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 12:20:22 PM
Quote
Are you implying that the anon poster was a spokesperson for ASR?
No, he called the school and got a status, I'll search for the link to the guest post if you need it.
Are you suggesting that any information has no validity unless it comes from an ASR spokesman?
So parents personal accounts, graduates personal accounts, kids who left after a few months, ex counselors etc. ? all their voices have no place here and cant be believed?
Personally I think we need to listen to everyone and then make a personal judgment. If we need more information or are a little unsure then I suggest calling the source.
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2007, 12:24:18 PM
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 12:37:59 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Stooge ? The school is in Massachusetts not Connecticut.
The man has an active license!
http://profiles.massmedboard.org/MA-Phy ... sp?ID=7087 (http://profiles.massmedboard.org/MA-Physician-Profile-View-Doctor.asp?ID=7087)
you people are fumbling all over yourselves. If you are going to try to make a school look bad at least double check your sources.
This is why I don?t believe any of your back ground checks?. Of course they don?t have licenses if you check the wrong state or if they moved from one state to another they will let their license expire in the old state
Parents: Check with the schools, don?t believe this stuff, it is loaded with agenda!!!!!
I think he's really lost it now.
Wouldn't it be a hoot to find out that Who is actually a bored mental patient who has no experience with the industry. Just stumbled onto Fornits one day, read up on the industry and has been trolling ever since.
This is what I've been thinking, too. He's cukoo! :silly:
I believe that the single person he named couldn't be verified due to middle initial - there were two folks with the same name, but different middle initial.
However, the rest of the list - verified to have no licenses to practice.
Pretty simple concept.
If Scooter believes they are licensed, all he needs to do is verify it and provide the sources of the verification, as he was able to do for only one single person who happens not to be a counselor at all, but rather a consulting doc who has precious little contact with the kids.
For now, he's still clinging to an anonymous guest poster as his "source" of "proof" while lamenting that the Commonwealth's licensing division is wrong.
Pretty poor, Scooter...
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 12:40:15 PM
Quote
Stooge ? The school is in Massachusetts not Connecticut.
The man has an active license!
http://profiles.massmedboard.org/MA-Phy ... sp?ID=7087 (http://profiles.massmedboard.org/MA-Physician-Profile-View-Doctor.asp?ID=7087)
Okay great, so we've then established that ASR does in fact have 1 licensed therapist on staff. Thank you for clearing that matter up Cindy.
So then one man provides therapy for 200 students? He does this of course in addition to having his own private practice, and working at a hospital.
I'm not sure how this is possible but it must be, because as well all know it would be highly illegal for these unlicensed therapist to be providing therapy, just as it illegal for ol Ralphy to be supervising that many unlicensed therapist.
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 12:45:25 PM
Quote
RB wrote:
"Okay great, so we've then established that ASR does in fact have 1 licensed therapist on staff."
Sorry, Bob, this guy is not a therapist on staff, he's a consulting MD Psychiatrist. He's not a counselor.
Scooter already verified yesterday that he has another full-time job, so he can't possibly be a full-time staff member at ASR.
He's a consulting doc that does med adjustments and such.
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 12:47:58 PM
I have some information that is current this week:
?they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test?
So now that we have this, what are the regulations? How many licensed counselors does a school need?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 12:52:33 PM
Provide us the means to verify whatever claims you make and let us know when you have something solid.
Good luck and we'll see you soon.
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 12:58:40 PM
We go by the state's licensing division. They say that there are no licensed counselors. RB ran every one of the names he posted thru the search engine, and I also verified, just to be sure.
According to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts licensing division, THERE ARE NO LICENSED COUNSELORS AT ASR.
According to Scootie the Crackpot and his anonymous source there are many :roll: .
This reminds me of Henry Kissinger sitting in front of the Senate Armed Services Committee two weeks ago telling the members that "Maybe the president has a secret plan for victory in Iraq."
Kissinger, a lesser liar than Whooter Libby Jr., when pressed, admitted he had "no evidence of such a plan."
C'mon, Whooter. Buck up like Kissinger!
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 01:11:44 PM
Quote
Whooter Libby Jr. wrote:
"How many licensed counselors does a school need?"
Trick question, Whooter, but I'm glad you brought it up, because it adds value to the discussion.
Schools require zero licensed counselors because schools are prohibited by law from providing casework services to students.
This, of course, will be the first angle brought up to oversight agencies charged with overseeing ASR. "Why is a 'boarding school' providing mandatory group therapy for students three times a week?"
This was all it took to knock HLA out of the frame. I'm sure ASR will be equally unable to explain why they, as a 'private boarding school,' are forcing thrice weekly therapy on their 'students.'
See, therapy takes place in treatment centers not schools and therapy is provided for patients not students.
ASR will hem and haw, but when the investigators roll in with warrants (ala HLA and AIR) they're going to find therapy records and case plans drawn up and signed off by unlicensed counselors who are legally barred from providing these services in a treatment center, much less a school where these services are forbidden by law to be offered or given.
And who will they thank for bringing it all to the attention of authorities? Whooter Libby Jr. :lol:
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2007, 01:15:11 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
And who will they thank for bringing it all to the attention of authorities? Whooter Libby Jr. :lol:
This is the most beautiful thing about this whole thread. We're slaying his own favorite hellhole with his own bullshit. I love irony.
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 01:26:12 PM
--- First its ASR has no licensed counselors
--- Then its, oh they have 2 licensed counselors
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=248371#248371 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=248371#248371)
--- Now we are back to they have no licensed counselors again. This is all in one day!!
Anyway, if I was a parent I would take this all with a grain of salt and do my homework.
This is the latest from ASR themselves:
?they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test?
So after the next testing period it looks like they will have upwards of 8 counselors licensed or 73% licensed. They have come a long way over the past few years. When we checked them last year (or year and a half ago) they had 2 licensed staff and they have expanded the number of hires also. Its good to see these schools take a pro active approach to hiring more staff and encouraging them to get licensed. I know it is an added expense for the schools in terms of salary and educational expenses, but it shows they are on a path for continuous improvement, which his healthy for the school and the kids.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 01:34:39 PM
Quote
This is the latest from ASR themselves:
?they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test?
ASR themselves? Are you claiming that the guest posting yesterday was an ASR staff? If so what is your basis for this claim? How can we verify it for ourselves.
Let us know Cindy, you yourself claim that the proof is in the pudding, so far I haven't seen any damn pudding from you. All we've seen is alot of emphatic statements coming from you, but nothing anyone can verify.
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 01:42:56 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Your like the Keystone cops !! Ha,Ha,....
--- First its ASR has no licensed counselors
--- Then its, oh they have 2 licensed counselors
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=248371#248371 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=248371#248371)
--- Now we are back to they have no licensed counselors again. This is all in one day!!
Anyway, if I was a parent I would take this all with a grain of salt and do my homework.
This is the latest from ASR themselves:
?they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test?
So after the next testing period it looks like they will have upwards of 8 counselors licensed or 73% licensed. They have come a long way over the past few years. When we checked them last year (or year and a half ago) they had 2 licensed staff and they have expanded the number of hires also. Its good to see these schools take a pro active approach to hiring more staff and encouraging them to get licensed. I know it is an added expense for the schools in terms of salary and educational expenses, but it shows they are on a path for continuous improvement, which his healthy for the school and the kids.
Next testing period? What are you talking about? These people have been there three years and the tests are given weekly or daily. Sorry, Whooter, doesn't wash.
BTW, it looks like ASR is going to have BIG TROUBLE for licensing problems:
http://http://www.mamhca.org/licspprt.htm
Not only are the counselors not going to be licensed anytime soon, ASR has no licensed providers under which any other potential licensee can practice.
Minimum requirement for oversight is five years of licensure. ASR doesn't have any of these people, so it can not legally oversee underlings.
Time to get on the phones, people.
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 02:23:13 PM
A quick call to the Mass Board of Substance Abuse Counselors Certification reveals that Naadia Bacchus is a CADAC, but Michael Vituski is not. He let his CADAC lapse in Oct 06.
This can be verified at (508) 842-8707
From ASR website
Valuski, Michael - Associate Director of Counseling
Mike works with students one-on-one, as well as, teaches our Healthy Decisions course during the academic day. Mike holds an MA is Criminal Justice. He is a certified Drug and Alcohol Addictions Counselor and Relapse Prevention Specialist, and is also certified in Grief Therapy.
While on the subject, is ASRs Substance Abuse program licensed? In Ga, that is a separate entity and requires an additional license other than the license issued by the state to operate as an RTC.
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 02:30:37 PM
When they interview you, remember to jump up and down, wave your hands at the camera and say "Hello Fornits". Bob will be at your side saying "I get most of the credit !!,it was my idea to begin with, do I get a hat that says something?" Ha,Ha,.......
So it looks like you are backing down on this licensing issue and it doesnt seem clear what the requirements are.
All we can conclude at this point is that ASR has licensed counselors which was the big question. The open issue now is how many are they required to have.
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 02:39:03 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
every state has different rules as to what it takes to get a license. different hours of work or supervision. the level of supervision differs also. i cannot quote each state. MA requirement take about 2 years to complete. you also have to take a test and present a case. the state of georgia is ridiculus about licensing which has to do with the fact it has 150 counties that have to come into agreement before anything is decided.
HLA was founded by some CEDU people but they have never changed the program. i do not ever remember it being held up as the cream of the crop except for Buchi. however, the people you refer to at ASR left in 2003 if i remember right. they have a new clincal director who like i said is clinical in his stance. see these are facts that never seem tobe taken into account.
the licensing issue will go on but likei said places, all treatment centers use so unlicensed staff. Oh by the way i called my friend at ASR and was told they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test.
well i am off...please keep some more open minds folks...i think the debate is important but let us not get so caught in trying to prove each other wrong that we forget what we are fighting for
Then this was posted by Whooter Libby Jr. continuously for the last 24 hours:
Quote
Whooter Libby Jr. wrote:
"This is the latest from ASR themselves:
they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test
Look familiar, Whooter?
It should. See, folks, what ol' Whooter has done here is to take an anonymous post (which could very well be The Whooter himself, BTW) in which the anonymous poster states that s/he was "told by a friend at ASR" about the information in the post.
Now, Whooter, why on earth would anyone believe second-hand anonymously posted information from the internet with no sources as a fact?
Boy, you've really lost it, Whooter. This is your idea of "proof"? Pleeeease, spare us from your nonsense.
You're busted out again, Whooter. Caught red-handed lying your face off (AGAIN, but no surprise).
So, Whooter, who are we to believe, the Board of Registration of Allied Mental Health and Human Services Professionals of the
Commonwealth of Massachusetts which documents only two licensed staff members at ASR, or you and your anonymous friend's anonymous friend?
Whooter, you're not doing to well at this, are you?
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 02:40:49 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
So it looks like you are backing down on this licensing issue and it doesnt seem clear what the requirements are.
Not at all. I know they aren't licensed as an RTC. I doubt they're licensed as a Residential Substance Abuse facility.
Quote
All we can conclude at this point is that ASR has licensed counselors which was the big question. The open issue now is how many are they required to have.
That's all YOU can conclude. I challenge you to stop using "We" and replace it with "I".
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 02:49:01 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Ha,Ha, No I dont think I will go with your internet background checks, you guys cant even look at the right state, how can we trust you to search all the right categories for their licenses.
Who said anything about "Connecticut", except you?
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 02:50:55 PM
?the licensing issue will go on but likei said places, all treatment centers use so unlicensed staff. Oh by the way i called my friend at ASR and was told they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test.?
Whoops, sorry you missed this DJ. But this info comes straight from ASR and it is current this week??.. you should slow down and read what I am saying.
Deborah can check the IP adresses, DJ, if you are ever wondering if it is me posting... I dont play the games like you do....I log in.
So like I have been saying to the parents is to discard this nonsense and check with the school. They are spreading so much mis information, here, as we have shown, I dont think you can believe any of it.
Dont be fooled!
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 02:51:59 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""So it looks like you are backing down on this licensing issue and it doesnt seem clear what the requirements are.
Not at all. I know they aren't licensed as an RTC. I doubt they're licensed as a Residential Substance Abuse facility.QuoteAll we can conclude at this point is that ASR has licensed counselors which was the big question. The open issue now is how many are they required to have.
That's all YOU can conclude. I challenge you to stop using "We" and replace it with "I".
If they aren't licensed as either type of provider, they are quite clearly providing therapy in violation of the law. Schools are disallowed from providing these services, period.
I dunno about you, Deb, but I'm just about ready to dig into this matter fully - just because Whooter brought it on.
When the staties come knockin' on ASR's door with search warrants, they'll have TheWho to thank for it. Without his rampant stupidity, nobody would even be talking about this at all...
Hey, Whooter Libby Jr., are your handlers at ASR going to get mad at you for this??? :rofl:
Hey, as an aside, is there anybody out there from ASR reading this that would care to comment on the job Whooter has done representing (read: "bringing the heat on") your facility? I'd be interested to see what kind of job Whooter has done representing you.
Post by: ZenAgent on February 22, 2007, 02:53:21 PM
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 02:56:26 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
This is the latest from ASR themselves:
?they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test?
Pure BS. I can't even verify that with the IP. You clearly haven't confirmed it's staff via PM because they aren't registered.
I'm not one to criticize others spelling and grammer, I personally think it's over rated, but I'd think any employee at a $6000/month "school" could do a little better.
Quote
So after the next testing period it looks like they will have upwards of 8 counselors licensed or 73% licensed. They have come a long way over the past few years. When we checked them last year (or year and a half ago) they had 2 licensed staff and they have expanded the number of hires also. Its good to see these schools take a pro active approach to hiring more staff and encouraging them to get licensed. I know it is an added expense for the schools in terms of salary and educational expenses, but it shows they are on a path for continuous improvement, which his healthy for the school and the kids.
:rofl: You're really good at what you do Who. Come on dude, are you on Sanier's payroll?
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 03:01:27 PM
Quote
You're really good at what you do Who. Come on dude, are you on Sanier's payroll?
Good at what he does? Ohhhhhhh...you mean lying. Yeah, he's a world heavyweight champeen liar alright.
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 03:07:51 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
This was posted by an anonymous guest poster yesterday:Quote from: ""Guest""every state has different rules as to what it takes to get a license. different hours of work or supervision. the level of supervision differs also. i cannot quote each state. MA requirement take about 2 years to complete. you also have to take a test and present a case. the state of georgia is ridiculus about licensing which has to do with the fact it has 150 counties that have to come into agreement before anything is decided.
HLA was founded by some CEDU people but they have never changed the program. i do not ever remember it being held up as the cream of the crop except for Buchi. however, the people you refer to at ASR left in 2003 if i remember right. they have a new clincal director who like i said is clinical in his stance. see these are facts that never seem tobe taken into account.
the licensing issue will go on but likei said places, all treatment centers use so unlicensed staff. Oh by the way i called my friend at ASR and was told they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test.
well i am off...please keep some more open minds folks...i think the debate is important but let us not get so caught in trying to prove each other wrong that we forget what we are fighting for
Then this was posted by Whooter Libby Jr. continuously for the last 24 hours:QuoteWhooter Libby Jr. wrote:
"This is the latest from ASR themselves:
they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test
Look familiar, Whooter?
It should. See, folks, what ol' Whooter has done here is to take an anonymous post (which could very well be The Whooter himself, BTW) in which the anonymous poster states that s/he was "told by a friend at ASR" about the information in the post.
Now, Whooter, why on earth would anyone believe second-hand anonymously posted information from the internet with no sources as a fact?
Boy, you've really lost it, Whooter. This is your idea of "proof"? Pleeeease, spare us from your nonsense.
You're busted out again, Whooter. Caught red-handed lying your face off (AGAIN, but no surprise).
So, Whooter, who are we to believe, the Board of Registration of Allied Mental Health and Human Services Professionals of the
Commonwealth of Massachusetts which documents only two licensed staff members at ASR, or you and your anonymous friend's anonymous friend?
Whooter, you're not doing to well at this, are you?
Hey Whodummy, not only did I read the post, I quoted it before you posted you last post with the same things highlighted.
Thanks again, though, Whooter for documenting AGAIN that your "proof" comes from an anonymous friend of an anonymous stranger. Nice, Whooter! You prove my point for me time and again!
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 03:11:23 PM
Quote
Whooter Libby Jr. wrote:
"DJ, if you are ever wondering if it is me posting... I dont play the games like you do....I log in."
Whooter, are you having that memory problem again? You were busted out posting all kinds of BS in the HLA forums anonymously.
If you want to be embarrassed once more, Deb can verify that you made the posts while not logged in.
Whooter, you are just such a fabricator that only you believe you. :lol:
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 03:11:26 PM
Quote
When the staties come knockin' on ASR's door with search warrants, they'll have TheWho to thank for it.
I think you mean ?Keystone cops? !! The kids love it when the staties show up. The school lets everyone out of their cages, they put make up on the scars and have real food brought in from the local deli.
It?s a good thing for the kids, DJ, and that is my focus! You have been missing the whole point all along??.
If you look at all your past posts this has been all about proving me wrong, getting the schools in trouble, embarrassing staff members, in short your own agenda. Not once have you mentioned the kids or helping them. That?s what sets us apart; I am trying to make things better for kids not myself. That?s why you will always lose is because you don?t have an honest cause and you are filled with hate and resentment.
So enough of that, where are those numbers again, lets take a look:
they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test.?
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 03:16:42 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Deborah can check the IP adresses, DJ, if you are ever wondering if it is me posting... I dont play the games like you do....I log in.
And I can't believe you just said that. You've still got lots of anon posts out there. Wanna have them all assigned to your user name?
Quote
So like I have been saying to the parents is to discard this nonsense and check with the school.
And as I have been saying, Bad Advice. The "school" will not be forthcoming with accurate information. Take what they tell you, then, go to State Agencies for the truth.
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 03:17:27 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""This was posted by an anonymous guest poster yesterday:Quote from: ""Guest""every state has different rules as to what it takes to get a license. different hours of work or supervision. the level of supervision differs also. i cannot quote each state. MA requirement take about 2 years to complete. you also have to take a test and present a case. the state of georgia is ridiculus about licensing which has to do with the fact it has 150 counties that have to come into agreement before anything is decided.
HLA was founded by some CEDU people but they have never changed the program. i do not ever remember it being held up as the cream of the crop except for Buchi. however, the people you refer to at ASR left in 2003 if i remember right. they have a new clincal director who like i said is clinical in his stance. see these are facts that never seem tobe taken into account.
the licensing issue will go on but likei said places, all treatment centers use so unlicensed staff. Oh by the way i called my friend at ASR and was told they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test.
well i am off...please keep some more open minds folks...i think the debate is important but let us not get so caught in trying to prove each other wrong that we forget what we are fighting for
Then this was posted by Whooter Libby Jr. continuously for the last 24 hours:QuoteWhooter Libby Jr. wrote:
"This is the latest from ASR themselves:
they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test
Look familiar, Whooter?
It should. See, folks, what ol' Whooter has done here is to take an anonymous post (which could very well be The Whooter himself, BTW) in which the anonymous poster states that s/he was "told by a friend at ASR" about the information in the post.
Now, Whooter, why on earth would anyone believe second-hand anonymously posted information from the internet with no sources as a fact?
Boy, you've really lost it, Whooter. This is your idea of "proof"? Pleeeease, spare us from your nonsense.
You're busted out again, Whooter. Caught red-handed lying your face off (AGAIN, but no surprise).
So, Whooter, who are we to believe, the Board of Registration of Allied Mental Health and Human Services Professionals of the
Commonwealth of Massachusetts which documents only two licensed staff members at ASR, or you and your anonymous friend's anonymous friend?
Whooter, you're not doing to well at this, are you?
Hey Whodummy, not only did I read the post, I quoted it before you posted you last post with the same things highlighted.
Thanks again, though, Whooter for documenting AGAIN that your "proof" comes from an anonymous friend of an anonymous stranger. Nice, Whooter! You prove my point for me time and again!
Read it again, Whooter boy. Just repeating it over and again won't make it so. Try clicking your heels togather and saying "I wish I were back in the psych ward! I wish I were back in the psych ward!"
Like I said yesterday, I called a friend of mine and he called a friend of his who's a Marine - they found the WMD in Iraq!
Who, you're a hopeless case.
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 03:23:26 PM
Quote
Who, you're a hopeless case.
Thats what some people say about some of these kids but I think there is help for them and that my friends is why I am here....and you? Ha,Ha
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 03:31:49 PM
The only thing we can rely on are the latest figures. When ASR updates their web site then those will be the latest figures, but until then (and not a day sooner) we will have to depend on these:
?.they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test.?
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 03:32:41 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteWho, you're a hopeless case.
Thats what some people say about some of these kids but I think there is help for them and that my friends is why I am here....and you? Ha,Ha
Yeah, you help those kids alright. You help them get sent to an unlicensed treatment center with unlicensed staff and unaccredited academics. You're a savior!
I think the reason you're here is just to practice lying. You're doing a fine job!
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 03:34:57 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I think you mean ?Keystone cops? !! The kids love it when the staties show up. The school lets everyone out of their cages, they put make up on the scars and have real food brought in from the local deli.
That's actually not too far off the mark.
Quote
If you look at all your past posts this has been all about proving me wrong, getting the schools in trouble, embarrassing staff members, in short your own agenda.
Who, if your information is correct, and properly cited, then no one can "prove you wrong". Right?
If the "school" is operating ethically and lawfully, then there's no worry of "getting them in trouble". Is there? We will have simply wasted our time.
Embarrassing staff? You mean by posting their licensing status?
Have you even called the Licensing Division in Mass and reported that ASR provides "therapy" and should be properly licensed as an RTC. If they were, we wouldn't be having this discussion about whether or not staff held the proper credentials. Licensing ADDS VALUE.
The kids at RC/HLA were very happy with the changes made after I reported them. They had better food (albeit fried), no more limited calories as punishment. Doesn't mean that RC/HLA has followed the regs. In fact RC was just recently written up with 33 violations, primarily for taking HLA kids without adequate records. Once HLA is licensed, I'm sure the kids will be even happier with the changes.
And that doesn't mean everyone can breath easy. We will continue to monitor and report violations to the state. With regulation in place ORS can go in to investigate without a court order, which gave HLA ample time to "clean things up".
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 03:49:50 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
So enough of that, where are those numbers again, lets take a look:
they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test.?
Here's what we've conclude to this point:
ASR has operated for 10 (just as HLA did) as an unlicensed RTC.
They require group therapy 3X a week. And individual counseling- who know how often- site says weekly, Who says "as needed".
2 out of 11 of their "Clinical Counselors" possess licenses. Most of the bios don't even include the staff's education/degree.
Neither The Dir of Counseling (The Clinician) and Assoc Dir of Counseling are licensed.
One of their two Substance Abuse Counselors certification has lapsed.
It's unknown, but unlikely that their SA program is licensed.
After 10 years of operation ASRs academics aren't accredited.
Haven't gotten to the "teachers" yet. We'll see what 'tomorrow' brings.
.... I'm sure I've forgotten something....
That's not a bargain, or in the kids best interest. ASR adds NO VALUE to a kid's life.
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 03:50:10 PM
Quote
Embarrassing staff? You mean by posting their licensing status?
No posting that their license expired when it had not and either way, I wouldn?t want people putting my name all over the web. It is published on the ASR site, but still , I don?t think it is right. If you think it is okay why doesn?t everyone sign in with their real names here on Fornits? The only ones who correctly know the current status of their employees is the school.
Quote
Have you even called the Licensing Division in Mass and reported that ASR provides "therapy" and should be properly licensed as an RTC
No never looked into it, we have been busy looking at licensing of counselors not the school itself.
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 03:57:36 PM
Quote
Whooter Libby Jr wrote:
"The only thing we can rely on are the latest figures. When ASR updates their web site then those will be the latest figures, but until then (and not a day sooner) we will have to depend on these:
?.they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test.?
Well you can depend on third-hand anonymous posts as fact, but nobody else will. The State says ASR has 2 licensed counselors. I believe the State, not you, Whootie. I saw an anonymous post that said you like to have sex with children a while back. That one must be true too, based on your logic. Now put down the candy and let the little boy go!
Also, this "update the website" thing was the same tired BS you were peddling last year while trying to explain an ASR teacher's bio on their website - a teacher with no college degree at all!
You kept droning on about how when they "update the website you'll see he got his degree!" BOLOGNA.
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 04:01:36 PM
Please try not to "forget" :roll: how you got fully owned all day today and that you've done a great deal to discredit ASR in the process. I'm sure they're grateful! :roll: :roll: :roll:
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 04:06:17 PM
Quote
ASR has operated for 10 (just as HLA did) as an unlicensed RTC.
They are not licensed to sell cars or have any licensed plumbers
either, but that doesn?t take away from the fact they provide a good valued service.
Quote
They require group therapy 3X a week. And individual counseling- who know how often- site says weekly, Who says "as needed".
Looks like we don?t know for sure?. I would call the school.
Quote
2 out of 11 of their "Clinical Counselors" possess licenses. Most of the bios don't even include the staff's education/degree.
Neither The Dir of Counseling (The Clinician) and Assoc Dir of Counseling are licensed.
One of their two Substance Abuse Counselors certification has lapsed.
It's unknown, but unlikely that their SA program is licensed.
All your numbers are wrong and suspect, you have said this before and I have proven you wrong.
Quote
After 10 years of operation ASRs academics aren't accredited.
They have never been denied accreditation and are approved to give diplomas.
Quote
Haven't gotten to the "teachers" yet. We'll see what 'tomorrow' brings.
.... I'm sure I've forgotten something....
Yes, accurate information.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 04:07:58 PM
Quote
The only ones who correctly know the current status of their employees is the school.
So youre stating that the commonwealth of Massachusettes doesnt know who has licenses and who doesn't?
This is a pretty bold statement Cindy, are you sure you want to stand behind it?
In the meantime I thought we'd agreed you were going to go work on providing the licensure information regarding the ASr employees. So far all youve given us is an anonymous post. Sorry Cindy this just isnt good enough.
Honestly Cindy who do you think the parents are going to give more creedence to? Us who provides a list of names and proof concerning who is licensed and who is not; or you who provided nothing more than your own say so based on nothing.
Think about that Cindy, you know how much you care about your credibility, or lack there of.
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 04:09:34 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Deborah wrote:QuoteEmbarrassing staff? You mean by posting their licensing status?
No posting that their license expired when it had not and either way, I wouldn?t want people putting my name all over the web. It is published on the ASR site, but still , I don?t think it is right. If you think it is okay why doesn?t everyone sign in with their real names here on Fornits? The only ones who correctly know the current status of their employees is the school.
I corrected the information re: Cohen, which was an honest mistake. Was there someone else?
We're not charging $6000/month for warehousing teens. I'm sure our names would be out there too.
The State agencies do have up to the minute information on licenses. That is precisely who programs (that function ethically) call when they are doing background/licensing checks on their employees. But, then, you know all this. You're hoping other parents believe that the "schools word is more accurate than the state's. :rofl:
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Have you even called the Licensing Division in Mass and reported that ASR provides "therapy" and should be properly licensed as an RTC
Quote from: ""TheWho""
No never looked into it, we have been busy looking at licensing of counselors not the school itself.
Keep it on your list of things to do. Licensure ADDS VALUE to programs. The kids will thank you, even if they don't know who's responsible.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 04:13:31 PM
Or better yet give us the names of those you believe to be licensed.
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 04:15:52 PM
Quote
Also, this "update the website" thing was the same tired BS you were peddling last year while trying to explain an ASR teacher's bio on their website - a teacher with no college degree at all!
Yes and when they updated the website your accusations went up in smoke and you embarrassed yourself and smeared a teacher?s name unnecessarily. Why did you leave that out?
Double check your sources before making accusations about people. It is their livelihood, We went over this last year
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 04:35:33 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 04:35:49 PM
Quote
The State agencies do have up to the minute information on licenses. That is precisely who programs (that function ethically) call when they are doing background/licensing checks on their employees. But, then, you know all this. You're hoping other parents believe that the "schools word is more accurate than the state's.
Sure but lets say they hired more people or had staff changes etc. since the last time the site was updated. Only the school would have the latest list of employees.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 04:40:47 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 04:56:49 PM
http://www.eec.state.ma.us/docs/residential_regs.pdf (http://www.eec.state.ma.us/docs/residential_regs.pdf)
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 04:58:08 PM
I neglected to update the table as I had promised (and was just reminded, sorry). I will review the latest info/names that were sent to me and update it in the morning.
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2007, 05:02:14 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
and stay focused on counselor licenses only.
Which naturally means that there's something else you're trying to keep us distracted from. What is it?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 05:09:19 PM
ASR has operated for 10 (just as HLA did) as an unlicensed RTC.
They require group therapy 3X a week. And individual counseling- who know how often- site says weekly, Who says "as needed".
2 out of 11 of their "Clinical Counselors" possess licenses. Most of the bios don't even include the staff's education/degree.
Neither The Dir of Counseling (The Clinician) and Assoc Dir of Counseling are licensed.
One of their two Substance Abuse Counselors certification has lapsed.
It's unknown, but unlikely that their SA program is licensed.
After 10 years of operation ASRs academics aren't accredited.
Haven't gotten to the "teachers" yet. We'll see what 'tomorrow' brings.
.... I'm sure I've forgotten something....
That's not a bargain, or in the kids best interest. ASR adds NO VALUE to a kid's life.
Delude yourself however you like Cindy, parents can verify the truth for themselves, youre only embarrassing yourself.
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 05:16:22 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Deborah wrote:QuoteASR has operated for 10 (just as HLA did) as an unlicensed RTC.
They are not licensed to sell cars or have any licensed plumbers
either, but that doesn?t take away from the fact they provide a good valued service.QuoteThey require group therapy 3X a week. And individual counseling- who know how often- site says weekly, Who says "as needed".
Looks like we don?t know for sure?. I would call the school.Quote2 out of 11 of their "Clinical Counselors" possess licenses. Most of the bios don't even include the staff's education/degree.
Neither The Dir of Counseling (The Clinician) and Assoc Dir of Counseling are licensed.
One of their two Substance Abuse Counselors certification has lapsed.
It's unknown, but unlikely that their SA program is licensed.
All your numbers are wrong and suspect, you have said this before and I have proven you wrong.
QuoteAfter 10 years of operation ASRs academics aren't accredited.
They have never been denied accreditation and are approved to give diplomas.QuoteHaven't gotten to the "teachers" yet. We'll see what 'tomorrow' brings.
.... I'm sure I've forgotten something....
Yes, accurate information.
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 05:21:41 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Deborah wrote:Quote2 out of 11 of their "Clinical Counselors" possess licenses. Most of the bios don't even include the staff's education/degree.
Neither The Dir of Counseling (The Clinician) and Assoc Dir of Counseling are licensed.
One of their two Substance Abuse Counselors certification has lapsed.
It's unknown, but unlikely that their SA program is licensed.
All your numbers are wrong and suspect, you have said this before and I have proven you wrong.
Prove that the information I provided above is inaccurate and I'll concede. Until you've "proven" nothing.
Quote from: ""TheWho""
They have never been denied accreditation and are approved to give diplomas.
Under who's authority are they issuing diplomas? AIR issued them too, until the got caught.
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 05:29:22 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Deborah wrote:QuoteThe State agencies do have up to the minute information on licenses. That is precisely who programs (that function ethically) call when they are doing background/licensing checks on their employees. But, then, you know all this. You're hoping other parents believe that the "schools word is more accurate than the state's.
Sure but lets say they hired more people or had staff changes etc. since the last time the site was updated. Only the school would have the latest list of employees.
This is true. Turnover is extraordinarily high.
But, the current list of staff was accurate in the not too distant past, and may still be for all any of us know. No one's proven that it's inaccurate. So, we're all in agreement that we'll work with the data the program is currently providing to the pubic. We can review it again when they get around to updating their site.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 05:32:09 PM
Quote
They are not licensed to sell cars or have any licensed plumbers
You forgot to add provide case work. Can you justify why they shouldnt be properly licensed? No, you cant.
Quote
but that doesn?t take away from the fact they provide a good valued service.
To who? The kids? Provide a study proving their services benefit the kids.
Quote
Looks like we don?t know for sure?. I would call the school.
So youre trying to claim again that the website is inaccurate? What kind of school purposely puts out misinformation like that? More likely they do have therapy 3x's a week since thats what they claim. You might call up your daughter and ask her. Let us know what she says.
Quote
All your numbers are wrong and suspect, you have said this before and I have proven you wrong.
When? Post the link. Cindy weve given you the names of all the employees and the link to the licensing board for Mass, its spelled out there very clearly who has a license and who doesnt. Were right and youre wrong. All youve proven to date is that some anonymous poster disagrees with us. This amounts to absolutly nothing.
Quote
They have never been denied accreditation and are approved to give diplomas.
Approved by who? They arent accredited Cindy. How do you know theyve never been denied? Did you verify this yourself? If thats true why after ten years havent then been accredited?
Quote
Yes, accurate information.
Oh wow, we must really be getting to you, you normally dont get sarcastic until youre really frustrated. Well little Cindy if you want to continue to rely on "some guy" as your source thats fine, but parents arent going to buy it. Sorry Cindy.
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 05:51:31 PM
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 [/u]
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open, 72 sources reviewed, mostly emails and news articles)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2004 thru June 2005
The data from the NCES is incomplete at this time. They are reporting an increase in suicide rates (at school) of over 100% from the previous year, but this is still in line with normal fluctuations from year to year and is below the 2002-2003 year levels.
Outside a TBS: Data not posted as of 2/20/2007
Inside a TBS Data not posted as of 2/20/2007
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 05:55:09 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Deborah wrote:QuoteThe State agencies do have up to the minute information on licenses. That is precisely who programs (that function ethically) call when they are doing background/licensing checks on their employees. But, then, you know all this. You're hoping other parents believe that the "schools word is more accurate than the state's.
Sure but lets say they hired more people or had staff changes etc. since the last time the site was updated. Only the school would have the latest list of employees.
This is true. Turnover is extraordinarily high.
But, the current list of staff was accurate in the not too distant past, and may still be for all any of us know. No one's proven that it's inaccurate. So, we're all in agreement that we'll work with the data the program is currently providing to the pubic. We can review it again when they get around to updating their site.
I would like to stick with the most current data, but I think we can bridge it and come to a consensus. We can note that they have reported 2 more licenses, in recent history, and up to 4 more on the way.
Post by: Oz girl on February 22, 2007, 05:58:22 PM
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 06:23:03 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""TheWho""Deborah wrote:QuoteThe State agencies do have up to the minute information on licenses. That is precisely who programs (that function ethically) call when they are doing background/licensing checks on their employees. But, then, you know all this. You're hoping other parents believe that the "schools word is more accurate than the state's.
Sure but lets say they hired more people or had staff changes etc. since the last time the site was updated. Only the school would have the latest list of employees.
This is true. Turnover is extraordinarily high.
But, the current list of staff was accurate in the not too distant past, and may still be for all any of us know. No one's proven that it's inaccurate. So, we're all in agreement that we'll work with the data the program is currently providing to the pubic. We can review it again when they get around to updating their site.
I would like to stick with the most current data, but I think we can bridge it and come to a consensus. We can note that they have reported 2 more licenses, in recent history, and up to 4 more on the way.
Wo way to verify this information, Who. We cannot use this information because it has never been sourced and can't be verified. You're the only one in this thread who keeps on insisting data can be "created" and it looks like you're doing just that. The fact that you're willing to use completely unverifiable data in an argument you've clearly lost is telling, as is the absolute insistence in your other topic, safety, that every single name be personally vetted by you. Do you see the double-standard? Do you see why this signals to readers that you are being far less than honest in your work? Can you then see why you need to use empirically verifiable data so that you can have some degree of believability? Do you now understand why you can't be believed at this time? You need to learn how to concede points clearly, totally lost so that you can have some believability. Do you see how people would not believe someone when the proponderance of the facts sugest that he or she is clearly, verifiably wrong? Do you now see why nobody can believe you, even if they believe the same premises, because you have destroyed the whole topic?
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 06:30:54 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
DJ wrote:QuoteAlso, this "update the website" thing was the same tired BS you were peddling last year while trying to explain an ASR teacher's bio on their website - a teacher with no college degree at all!
Yes and when they updated the website your accusations went up in smoke and you embarrassed yourself and smeared a teacher?s name unnecessarily. Why did you leave that out?
Double check your sources before making accusations about people. It is their livelihood, We went over this last year
This isn't exactly, true, Whooter. What happened was that he either quit or was fired between then and now. He no longer works at ASR, but he sure did teach there without a degree of any kind, as you have already admitted.
This is what's called "lying," Scooter. Don't you ever get tired of embarrassing yourself? It's tough to watch all this self-flagellating.
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 06:33:28 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""TheWho""Deborah wrote:QuoteThe State agencies do have up to the minute information on licenses. That is precisely who programs (that function ethically) call when they are doing background/licensing checks on their employees. But, then, you know all this. You're hoping other parents believe that the "schools word is more accurate than the state's.
Sure but lets say they hired more people or had staff changes etc. since the last time the site was updated. Only the school would have the latest list of employees.
This is true. Turnover is extraordinarily high.
But, the current list of staff was accurate in the not too distant past, and may still be for all any of us know. No one's proven that it's inaccurate. So, we're all in agreement that we'll work with the data the program is currently providing to the pubic. We can review it again when they get around to updating their site.
I would like to stick with the most current data, but I think we can bridge it and come to a consensus. We can note that they have reported 2 more licenses, in recent history, and up to 4 more on the way.
Wo way to verify this information, Who. We cannot use this information because it has never been sourced and can't be verified. You're the only one in this thread who keeps on insisting data can be "created" and it looks like you're doing just that. The fact that you're willing to use completely unverifiable data in an argument you've clearly lost is telling, as is the absolute insistence in your other topic, safety, that every single name be personally vetted by you. Do you see the double-standard? Do you see why this signals to readers that you are being far less than honest in your work? Can you then see why I want you to use empirically verifiable data so that you can have some degree of believability? Do you now understand why you can't be believed at this time? I want you to learn how to concede points clearly, totally lost so that you can have some believability. Do you see how people would not believe someone when the proponderance of the facts sugest that he or she is clearly, verifiably wrong? Do you now see why nobody can believe you, even if they believe the same premises, because you have destroyed the whole topic?
I typically would but that would make for a double standard. If a graduate of one of the schools came out and said, so and so was fired or the nurse quit and we don?t know who is handing out meds then this is taken to be fact. It has happened on HLA I believe. We don?t turn to the web site and say ?Well she is still listed, so we have to go with that?. The guest poster was very knowledgeable about the school HLA and ASR. He wasn?t pro ASR by any means if any of you recall, but provided us with some up to date info on the school as far as licenses go and I think it should be considered.
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 06:37:14 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""The Who is pretty darned narcissistic, and his self-focus is making it tough for information about ASR to actually be in the thread about ASR.
Which I'm sure is just exactly what he wants.
He's a troll.
Julie
Thank God!!! That's what I've been trying to say. Robert seems intent on proving him wrong and in that process a lot of good, clear, concise information is being lost along with a lot of frustrated readers. We all know he's wrong. Anyone with half a brain who has read even a few pages of the thread knows he's wrong. Do you really plan on keeping this up until he admits he's wrong? Cuz it ain't gonna happen and a lot time's being wasted. Even regulars are getting tired of it and leaving.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Spreading the joy in other threads, too, Scooter? Dang, you're busy acting foolish all over this place.
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2007, 06:43:29 PM
Quote
If a graduate of one of the schools came out and said, so and so was fired or the nurse quit and we don?t know who is handing out meds then this is taken to be fact.
This is because they are believable, and you are not.
It's just that simple.
DJ, Deb- if neither of you have started compiling REAL license information to deliver to Massachussetts by now, shame on you both for wasting time responding to this retard.
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 06:48:54 PM
Reviewed by Patti Ghezzi
February 27, 2005
Five thousand dollars a month.
That's how much parents shell out to a western Massachusetts boarding school in hopes it can steer their teenagers off the path of drugs, promiscuity, video game addiction and belligerence.
Families arrive at the Academy at Swift River so ready to get their unruly child out of the house that few ask for statistics demonstrating a successful track record.
Good thing. The school, located in a former dairy, is run by a for-profit company and DOES NOT COMPILE SUCH FIGURES.
They cry. They curse. They conspire to run away. They disclose secrets about abuses suffered. One day, a student has an apparent breakthrough in therapy. Soon after, she's having sex with a classmate in the bathroom.
One unorthodox punishment is to withhold spices ? INCLUDING SALT ? from students' food.
Swift River revolves around ritual, yet the staff struggles, and sometimes fails, to keep order. The intensity of the work leads to burnout. One beloved teacher is later spotted by a former student working in a New York deli.
Marcus shows how out-of-control teenagers have spawned a lucrative industry. Consultants advise parents on the best therapeutic boarding schools. Psychologists apply labels. Drug companies keep the pills coming.
The only misfit in this well-crafted book is the title: It's unclear what it takes to pull these kids through. Counselors acknowledge some would outgrow their problems without Swift River. And one kid who absorbs all the nurturing Swift River can provide still ends up dead of an overdose.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib ... teens.html (http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050227/news_lz1v27teens.html)
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 06:49:44 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
QuoteIf a graduate of one of the schools came out and said, so and so was fired or the nurse quit and we don?t know who is handing out meds then this is taken to be fact.
This is because they are believable, and you are not.
It's just that simple.
DJ, Deb- if neither of you have started compiling REAL license information to deliver to Massachussetts by now, shame on you both for wasting time responding to this retard.
and there we go that?s my point.......we use info based on if the person feels they are believable or not in other arguments. I feel this person is bringing accurate information to the table and it should be considered in this argument.
It's just that simple.
Post by: Froderik on February 22, 2007, 06:53:19 PM
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 06:57:06 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
QuoteIf a graduate of one of the schools came out and said, so and so was fired or the nurse quit and we don?t know who is handing out meds then this is taken to be fact.
This is because they are believable, and you are not.
It's just that simple.
DJ, Deb- if neither of you have started compiling REAL license information to deliver to Massachussetts by now, shame on you both for wasting time responding to this retard.
No, this is not why. Everything over there is vetted very carefully because the little man at HLA is an extremely litigious little bugger. We try not to get sued, and nobody has been. Kids say stuff and we look into. Generally nothing is posted without confirmation from a staff member and where it is, it is clearly said to be "single-sourced." I do this all the time.
Bottom line is that Whooter Libby Jr. is just not believable, so his so-called "sources" are just perceived as the utterings of a consummate prevaricator. His credibilty is so low he needds to provide REAL documentation because nobody believes him about anything anymore, even other ASR supporters. He's cooked.
Now, to your second point. Deb got the staff list from ASR and ran all the names thru the state licensing site. Here's the results:
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Academy at Swift River Staff
Checking licensing catagories for: Psychologist, Mental Health Professional, Social Workers at http://www.mass.gov/dpl/boards.htm (http://www.mass.gov/dpl/boards.htm)
this is what I found
Administration
DeLisle, Lisa Operations Director
Slaghekke, Piet Continuum Information Systems Coordinator
Stokes, Brenda Executive Assistant
Vardell, Don Executive Director
Wilcox, Geri Finance Manager
Admissions Team
Jurkowski, Kara Admissions Assistant
Papallo, Rhonda Admissions & Student Services Director
Ravenscraft, Paul Associate Director of Admissions & Marketing
Roubinian, Nayiree Admissions Assistant
Buffalos
DuBois, Dan Teacher
Ingram, Abby Residential Mentor
Moore, Tom Clinical Counselor
Perry, Eve Teacher
Piaget, Mark Residential Mentor
Plumeri, Leslie Counselor
Steiner, Jocelyn Residential Life Supervisor
Trushaw, Kami Leigh Residential Mentor
Cougars
Charnley, Michael Residential Life Supervisor
Christoph, Rosemary Clinical Counselor
DeBlase, Erica Clinical Counselor
Kilfeather, Michael Residential Mentor
Rodney, Jesslyn Residential Mentor
Towles, Michelle Teacher
Counseling Services Administration
Bacchus, Naadia Substance Abuse Counselor- Licensed as a Mental Health Counselor, Antioch University
Bartolomeo, Frank Director of Counseling & Residential Life
Kilfeather, PJ Assistant Transitional Coordinator
Valuski, Michael Associate Director of Counseling
Eagles
Beattie, Ginger Residential Life Supervisor
Beecher, Tanya Clinical Counselor ? Licensed Certified Social Worker- License has expired but is within one renewal period.
Demerjian, Robert Residential Mentor
Hartnett, Nadina Residential Mentor
Herman, SabrinaClinical Counselor ? Licensed Certified Social Worker
Onafowokan, Abi Teacher
Staller, Justin Residential Mentor
VanderHeld, David Teacher
Educational Services Administration
Ballou-Baldwin, Martha Academic Assistant
Becker, Joshua Director of Educational Services
Wheeler, Laurie Librarian
Wilcox, Dennis Academic Registrar/Scheduler
Mustangs
Allen, D. Keller Teacher
Cunningham, Gina Clinical Counselor
Goselin, Jennifer Residential Mentor
Kuttner, Jessica Clinical Counselor
Lahoski, Jennifer Teacher
Maguire, Carey Residential Mentor
Tomaselli, Judd Residential Life Supervisor
Wolk, Joshua Residential Mentor
Operations/Support Staff
Bourdon, Joe Residential Mentor/Night Staff
Dennis, Albert Residential Mentor/Night Staff
Lococo, Sue Residential Mentor/Night Staff
Martin, David Maintenance
Mason, Daniel Maintenance
Nicolacopoulos, Charles Residential Mentor/Night Staff
Toczdlowski, Eugene Residential Mentor/Night Staff
Wilson, Rachel Residential Mentor/Night Staff
Pathways
Madeiros, Ness Program Counselor
Sabella, Emma Pathways Mentor
Wallace, Nate Pathways Mentor
Residential Life Administration
Colacarro, Anne Associate Director of Residential Life
Killough-Hill, Bill Supervisor Adventure ASR
Student Health
Becker, Julie Nurse
Champoux, Richard Advanced Practice RN
Cohen, Ralph Psychiatrist
Dame, Cherie Health Services Coordinator
Flint, Paula Nurse
Trudell, Laurie Registered Nurse
Wolves
Brumberg, Jay Clinical Counselor ? Licensed Social Worker - License has expired or is inactive. The license is expired beyond 1 Renewal period.
Everson, Audrey Clinical Counselor
Gould, Traci Residential Mentor
Loux, Nathan Academic Mentor
McCann, Karen Residential Life Supervisor
Pronovost, Jason Residential Mentor
Wallender, Jon Teacher
Williams, Greg Teacher
9 - no license at all
2 - some sort of license
Anything else? You're so pissy today.
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2007, 07:00:33 PM
Whatever TheWho might believe, or might not believe, is totally irrelevant here. What is relevant is taking out ASR. That'll end the argument pretty damn quick.
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 07:04:51 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
DJ, Deb- if neither of you have started compiling REAL license information to deliver to Massachussetts by now, shame on you both for wasting time responding to this retard.
Dude,
You apparently aren't keeping up with the discussion... understandable, when you're not actively involved in it. I addressed that question to you specifically earlier today. Yes, I've documented all the staffs license status.
Wanna help? You could research the requirements for a Substance Abuse facility in Mass.
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2007, 07:11:45 PM
Well, this is interesting. Even to be an assistant with alcohol or drug counseling, in Massachussetts, you still need a license!
http://www.mass.gov/dph/bsas/licensing/ ... ements.doc (http://www.mass.gov/dph/bsas/licensing/adcounselor_requirements.doc)
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 07:23:22 PM
Anyone see the irony in using TheWho's thread to plan for closing ASR? :wink:
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 07:26:07 PM
Quote
and there we go that?s my point.......we use info based on if the person feels they are believable or not in other arguments. I feel this person is bringing accurate information to the table and it should be considered in this argument.
It's just that simple.
No its not. There are several differences, the biggest being we could verify there was no school nurse by simply noticing she was no longer listed on the website, add that to the fact that we had insiders telling us exactly what was going on (something you emphatically denied) and confirmed that there was indeed no nurse.
In this instance you have one anonymous person claiming something that cannot be verified and youre getting frustrated because we arent accepting his claim at face value.
Why should we when we have real data that refutes what hes saying?
Post by: Troll Control on February 22, 2007, 07:26:18 PM
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 07:32:40 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
Yeah, well, this thread received about two thousand more replies than it was worth and seems to be leeching the hell out of everything ELSE worth talking about, so yeah, I'm pissy. Especially since everyone keeps on trollfeeding.
Whatever TheWho might believe, or might not believe, is totally irrelevant here. What is relevant is taking out ASR. That'll end the argument pretty damn quick.
What do you want to talk about sweetie?
What would you prefer I/we do with our time? I personally have invested a few hours of research into unearthing the truth about ASR. That doesn't fit my definition of trollfeeding. And besides, this thread is titled "The Who".
What are you doing to take out ASR? I apologize if I missed it. I have seen you "feed" Who a few times. And ask questions that had already been answered.
Sorry, I'm pissy too and don't appreciate that you appear to be discounting the effort I've put into this. Where it goes, nobody knows, but at the very least the accurate info is now available here for any discerning parent who might be interest. And that ADDS VALUE, even if it's archived in TheWho thread. It's mineable.
Milk, getting a facility licensed properly or close down doesn't just magically happen. It takes a tremendous amount of time and effort. Jump in, get involved with fact finding. Then, you might appreciate what 'has' happened in this thread, aside from all other BS.
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 07:50:42 PM
Excerpts from
http://www.mass.gov/dph/regs/reg105cmr750.htm (http://www.mass.gov/dph/regs/reg105cmr750.htm)
Drug Treatment Program ? means a program which provides therapeutic services and necessary supportive services especially designed for the treatment of drug dependent person or persons in need of immediate assistance due to the use of a dependency-related drug.
Facility ? means any public or private place, or portion thereof, which is not part of or located at a penal institution and which is not operated by the federal government, where especially-designed services are provided for the treatment of drug dependent persons or person in need of immediate assistance due to the use of a dependency-related drug.
License ? means a certification, in writing, whether full or provisional, issued by the Department to any responsible and suitable person which authorizes that person to operate a drug treatment program.
Licensee ? means any person holding a license or approval from the Department to operate a drug treatment program.
Residential DrugFree Program means a program which provides longterm social and rehabilitative services to livein clients who are unable to remain drugfree while residing in the community.
(1) Any person, other than a licensed general hospital or a department, agency, or institution of the federal government, the commonwealth or any political subdivision thereof, shall file an application for licensure with the Department for the establishment or operation of a drug treatment program.
(A) Each licensee shall designate a qualified administrator and shall establish bylaws or policies which describe the organization of the program, establish authority and responsibility, and identify programs and goals.
(B) The administrator or his/her designee shall at all times be on the premises of the facility while it is in operation. All staff members on duty shall know who is responsible for supervision of the program at any given time.
(D) The licensee shall provide. upon request of the Department, evidence that personnel are currently certified, licensed or registered where applicable laws require certification licensure, or registration. In addition. the licensee shall maintain accurate information on the formal and ongoing education and training of direct service staff in all diagnostic, therapy, and treatment methods which he/she utilizes or supervises.
(B) Specific Client Rights
(1) All programs, including residential programs, shall guarantee clients freedom from physical, and psychological abuse and/or deprivation. At a minimum, these rights shall include freedom:
(a) from corporal punishment and/or physical abuse;
(b) from body cavity and strip searches;
(c) to have control over his/her bodily appearance;
(d) to have a hearing on any intended disciplinary measure as set forth in 105 CMR 750.560;
(e) to participate or not, in religious worship of his/her own choosing;
(f) in to examine his/her client record;
(g) to challenge information in his/her client record and insert a statement of clarification;
(h) to terminate treatment at any time; and
(i) from signing over his/her public assistance, food stamps, or other income to the licensee except when it is part of a mutual treatment agreement signed by both the client and the licensee. In such case, the client has the right to know how the income is being expended.
(2) Residential programs shall guarantee clients these additional rights:
(a) to bathe. shower, and meet personal hygiene needs in a reasonable manner, at a reasonable time;
(b) to have regular physical exercise;
(c) to wear his/her own clothes, unless medically contraindicated;
(d) to send and receive sealed letters. Where the licensee deems it necessary, mail shall be inspected for contraband in the presence of the client;
(e) to be given regular and private use of a pay telephone; and
(f) to have visitors at reasonable times. Visits by the client's attorney and personal physician shall not be limited.
A) Residential DrugFree Programs. (A different catagory than RSA.)
(4) The licensee shall provide counseling, no less than five (5) times per week.
(a) At a minimum, one (1) of the five (5) sessions must be an individual counseling session;
(b) Types of counseling sessions shall be as specified in the individual, treatment plan;
(c) Counseling services shall also include:
1. group treatment;
2. family and/or couples counseling; and
3. vocational guidance.
From http://www.maadac-ma.org/ (http://www.maadac-ma.org/)
105 CMR 168.000 shall be known and may be cited as 105 CMR 168.000: Standards for the Licensure of Alcohol and Drug Counselors.
Certified Alcohol and Drug Counselor means a person who is certified by the Massachusetts Board of Substance Abuse Counselor Certification (MBSACC), the American Academy of Healthcare Providers in the Addictive Disorders, the National Association of Alcohol and Drug Abuse Counselors (NAADAC), or the International Certification & Reciprocity Consortium (ICRC), or who holds a current certificate from any recognized certifying body (i.e. CEAP, CNAC, CCS, etc.) satisfactory to the department.
Clinical Supervision means an ongoing, regularly occurring process of examination, critique, and improvement of a counselor?s skills provided by a Licensed alcohol and drug counselor I, that involves one to one or small group in structure, and utilizes the methods of intensive case review and discussion, and direct and indirect observation of clinical practice.
Licensed Alcohol and Drug Abuse Counselor Assistant means a person licensed by the Department to provide recovery based services under direct clinical and administrative supervision. A licensed alcohol and drug counselor assistant shall meet the work experience and educational requirements established by the Department.
Licensed Alcohol and Drug Abuse Counselor I means a person Licensed by the Department to conduct an independent practice of alcohol and drug counseling, and to provide supervision to other alcohol and drug counselors. A licensed alcohol and drug counselor I: shall have received a master?s or doctoral degree in behavioral sciences, including a supervised counseling practicum which meets the requirement established by the Department or such equivalent educational credits as may be established by the Department; shall have at least three years of approved work.
Quote
See if you can find out if Naadia Bucchus or Michael Valuski, or anyone else listed as staff are a LADAC I.
Licensed Alcohol and Drug Counselor II means a person licensed by the Department to practice alcohol and drug counseling under clinical supervision. A licensed alcohol and drug counselor II: shall have completed an approved program of education, including a supervised counseling practicum which meets the requirement established by the Department; shall have at least three years of approved work experience; and shall have passed a licensing examination approved by the Department.
~~~
That's as far as I've gotten. Help would be appreciated.
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 07:54:20 PM
Quote
?.they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test.?
Good info guys..wow much more info than I expected? so their website shows 2 out of 11 licensed and looks like they added 2 more since they update and have 3 to 4 more to add after they get tested.
Just out of curiosity, what are the requirements? I mean we are all sitting around saying 2 are licensed, no 4 are licensed maybe up to 8 licensed. Does any of this matter? Are there any requirements that stipulate licensing is required and how many of you staff needs to be sent out for licensing?
I mean if you only need one person licensed then there is no point in the argument, is there?
If they meet standards we could be working on something else like regulation or accreditation!
Post by: Ganja on February 22, 2007, 07:55:14 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This thread should also be used for any general topics like what you watched on tv or whatever. TheWho made this thread useless like a hundred and thirty-some pages back, so why not just use it for idle chit chat, too?
Yes, I'm with you; I attempted to head in that direction back on page 21:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=237962#237962 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=237962#237962)
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 07:58:44 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Guest wrote:Quote?.they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test.?
Good info guys..wow much more info than I expected? so their website shows 2 out of 11 licensed and looks like they added 2 more since they update and have 3 to 4 more to add after they get tested.
Just out of curiosity, what are the requirements? I mean we are all sitting around saying 2 are licensed, no 4 are licensed maybe up to 8 licensed. Does any of this matter? Are there any requirements that stipulate licensing is required and how many of you staff needs to be sent out for licensing?
I mean if you only need one person licensed then there is no point in the argument, is there?
If they meet standards we could be working on something else like regulation or accreditation!
Cindy can you name the four who already have licenses? How about the 4 who are in line to become licensed?
Post by: Ganja on February 22, 2007, 08:00:37 PM
No? Well do yourself a favor and check it out!
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 08:07:19 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This thread should also be used for any general topics like what you watched on tv or whatever. TheWho made this thread useless like a hundred and thirty-some pages back, so why not just use it for idle chit chat, too?
you should look at the first post!! It started out useless... I like the TV idea "Lost" would be appropriate...Ha, Ha, ...but would like to follow this licensing and regulation path. If we could get some answers as to what the requirements are we could really start comparing State Regs to TBS's and see how they stand up. If the TBS's were regulated we could then start extracting some of the data they would be required to track and keep and use this to bounce off the PS, maybe start a bench mark for us. Truancy, petty theft, staff turn over rates type of data, which would be a gold mine of info.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 08:09:26 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 08:45:02 PM
Here take a look:
Your list says:
Beecher, Tanya Clinical Counselor ? Licensed Certified Social Worker- License has expired but is within one renewal period.
I check on line and she renewed last year:
http://license.reg.state.ma.us/pubLic/p ... loca&lb=SW (http://license.reg.state.ma.us/pubLic/pubLicenseQ.asp?board_code=SW&type_class=_1&license_number=000113673&color=loca&lb=SW)
your data is useless, this is why I post my own. You have such an agenda, you slander people and try to discredit them. This is their livelihood and you would rather lie about some poor kid making a living, drag their name thru the mud then admit ASR has licensed counselors.
You should write to her and apologize and edit your posts!! you have no ethics
Post by: FLCLcowdude on February 22, 2007, 08:53:56 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Hey guys come on !! You are sloppy and should be fired. The first name I look at that you discard is licensed and up to date:
Here take a look:
Your list says:
Beecher, Tanya Clinical Counselor ? Licensed Certified Social Worker- License has expired but is within one renewal period.
I check on line and she renewed last year:
http://license.reg.state.ma.us/pubLic/p ... loca&lb=SW (http://license.reg.state.ma.us/pubLic/pubLicenseQ.asp?board_code=SW&type_class=_1&license_number=000113673&color=loca&lb=SW)
your data is useless, this is why I post my own. You have such an agenda, you slander people and try to discredit them. This is their livelihood and you would rather lie about some poor kid making a living, drag their name thru the mud then admit ASR has licensed counselors.
You should write to her and apologize and edit your posts!! you have no ethics
Look, I don't usually do this, but here goes.
You wanna know what? Fuck you asshole. Do you think that you have any more ethics than we do? You advocate trading children like they are commodities. Just another thing that can be thrown away. You can't cage a child, there is no program that can make your kids perfect little angles. If you wanna make them angles, just crush up Valium and put it in their food(Warning, I do not recommend doing that). They would be better off if if you drugged them. Then they wouldn't have to listen and be brainwashed by the lies that you spew. You make everyone try to look like an ass, but you are the one who ends up looking like an ass in the process. If you don't like what we say, and what we believe in, just go read Struggling Twats. Seriously bitch, we have had enough of your shit to last a lifetime!
Need some ice for that burn asshole?
-FLCLcowdude
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 09:09:28 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Hey guys come on !! You are sloppy and should be fired. The first name I look at that you discard is licensed and up to date:
Here take a look:
Your list says:
Beecher, Tanya Clinical Counselor ? Licensed Certified Social Worker- License has expired but is within one renewal period.
I check on line and she renewed last year:
http://license.reg.state.ma.us/pubLic/p ... loca&lb=SW (http://license.reg.state.ma.us/pubLic/pubLicenseQ.asp?board_code=SW&type_class=_1&license_number=000113673&color=loca&lb=SW)
your data is useless, this is why I post my own. You have such an agenda, you slander people and try to discredit them. This is their livelihood and you would rather lie about some poor kid making a living, drag their name thru the mud then admit ASR has licensed counselors.
http://license.reg.state.ma.us/pubLic/p ... color=loca[/url]
Shes had more than one license, the first one as a social worker has indeed lapsed.
Youre in such a hurry to prove your point that youre losing focus.
Youve yet to provide any real basis for your claim regarding how many staff is licensed, other than "some guy said so."
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2007, 09:10:54 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 09:13:29 PM
Quote from: ""FLCLcowdude""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Hey guys come on !! You are sloppy and should be fired. The first name I look at that you discard is licensed and up to date:
Here take a look:
Your list says:
Beecher, Tanya Clinical Counselor ? Licensed Certified Social Worker- License has expired but is within one renewal period.
I check on line and she renewed last year:
http://license.reg.state.ma.us/pubLic/p ... loca&lb=SW (http://license.reg.state.ma.us/pubLic/pubLicenseQ.asp?board_code=SW&type_class=_1&license_number=000113673&color=loca&lb=SW)
your data is useless, this is why I post my own. You have such an agenda, you slander people and try to discredit them. This is their livelihood and you would rather lie about some poor kid making a living, drag their name thru the mud then admit ASR has licensed counselors.
You should write to her and apologize and edit your posts!! you have no ethics
Look, I don't usually do this, but here goes.
You wanna know what? Fuck you asshole. Do you think that you have any more ethics than we do? You advocate trading children like they are commodities. Just another thing that can be thrown away. You can't cage a child, there is no program that can make your kids perfect little angles. If you wanna make them angles, just crush up Valium and put it in their food(Warning, I do not recommend doing that). They would be better off if if you drugged them. Then they wouldn't have to listen and be brainwashed by the lies that you spew. You make everyone try to look like an ass, but you are the one who ends up looking like an ass in the process. If you don't like what we say, and what we believe in, just go read Struggling Twats. Seriously bitch, we have had enough of your shit to last a lifetime!
Need some ice for that burn asshole?
-FLCLcowdude
I think it is obvious, if you are part of this you should be ashamed also. You really think these counselors go to school, work their butt off, get a degree and get a social workers license because they want to abuse kids?
Do they deserve having their name dragged thru the mud as they try build their career and better themselves because you guys have to feed your egos and prove to each other who is right?
I know people like DJ don?t care about them as long as he can dump some anger at a school or two, but dam you people will stop at no lengths to try to uphold your egos.
The posts should be deleted and the girl should be apologized to. You did the exact same thing to Doctor Cohen until I pointed it out to you.
Work at an honest cause, okay, but have some respect for other people.
Post by: FLCLcowdude on February 22, 2007, 09:17:59 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""FLCLcowdude""Quote from: ""TheWho""Hey guys come on !! You are sloppy and should be fired. The first name I look at that you discard is licensed and up to date:
Here take a look:
Your list says:
Beecher, Tanya Clinical Counselor ? Licensed Certified Social Worker- License has expired but is within one renewal period.
I check on line and she renewed last year:
http://license.reg.state.ma.us/pubLic/p ... loca&lb=SW (http://license.reg.state.ma.us/pubLic/pubLicenseQ.asp?board_code=SW&type_class=_1&license_number=000113673&color=loca&lb=SW)
your data is useless, this is why I post my own. You have such an agenda, you slander people and try to discredit them. This is their livelihood and you would rather lie about some poor kid making a living, drag their name thru the mud then admit ASR has licensed counselors.
You should write to her and apologize and edit your posts!! you have no ethics
Look, I don't usually do this, but here goes.
You wanna know what? Fuck you asshole. Do you think that you have any more ethics than we do? You advocate trading children like they are commodities. Just another thing that can be thrown away. You can't cage a child, there is no program that can make your kids perfect little angles. If you wanna make them angles, just crush up Valium and put it in their food(Warning, I do not recommend doing that). They would be better off if if you drugged them. Then they wouldn't have to listen and be brainwashed by the lies that you spew. You make everyone try to look like an ass, but you are the one who ends up looking like an ass in the process. If you don't like what we say, and what we believe in, just go read Struggling Twats. Seriously bitch, we have had enough of your shit to last a lifetime!
Need some ice for that burn asshole?
-FLCLcowdude
I think it is obvious, if you are part of this you should be ashamed also. You really think these counselors go to school, work their butt off, get a degree and get a social workers license because they want to abuse kids?
Do they deserve having their name dragged thru the mud as they try build their career and better themselves because you guys have to feed your egos and prove to each other who is right?
I know people like DJ don?t care about them as long as he can dump some anger at a school or two, but dam you people will stop at no lengths to try to uphold your egos.
The posts should be deleted and the girl should be apologized to. You did the exact same thing to Doctor Cohen until I pointed it out to you.
Work at an honest cause, okay, but have some respect for other people.
Is it really any of your business whose names we drag through the mud? We would be more than happy to drag your name through the mud with them!
Post by: Anonymous on February 22, 2007, 09:22:15 PM
Quote
have some respect for other people.
No. You aren't worth any.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 09:28:06 PM
Quote
I think it is obvious, if you are part of this you should be ashamed also. You really think these counselors go to school, work their butt off, get a degree and get a social workers license because they want to abuse kids?
Do they deserve having their name dragged thru the mud as they try build their career and better themselves because you guys have to feed your egos and prove to each other who is right?
I know people like DJ don?t care about them as long as he can dump some anger at a school or two, but dam you people will stop at no lengths to try to uphold your egos.
The posts should be deleted and the girl should be apologized to. You did the exact same thing to Doctor Cohen until I pointed it out to you.
Work at an honest cause, okay, but have some respect for other people.
Its not enough that you try and make yourself a martyr you want these people up on the cross with you? Cindy no one has as of yet accused either Ralphy or Tanya of child abuse.
Stop your crying and stick to the facts.
Now are you going to stick to basing your claim of the multiple licensure "some guy said so"?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 09:35:47 PM
Post by: Froderik on February 22, 2007, 09:41:55 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
Quotehave some respect for other people.
No. You aren't worth any.
:rofl:
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 09:42:49 PM
Post by: hanzomon4 on February 22, 2007, 09:56:39 PM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
What's the difference between a licensed independent clinical social worker and a licensed certified social worker?
From the Massachusetts web site:
"How do I become a Licensed Independent Clinical Social Worker (LICSW)?
You must have all of the following:
1. Masters or doctoral degree in social work (no other field may be accepted).
2. A current license as a Licensed Certified Social Worker(LCSW).
3. 3,500 hours of post-MSW clinical social work experience under the supervision of someone who is currently licensed as an LICSW, or holds an equivalent license in another state. The 3,500 hours of experience must be accumulated over not less than two years post- MSW
4. A total of 100 hours of individual one- to- one supervision from someone who is currently licensed as an LICSW, or holds an equivalent license in another state, at a rate of 50 hours per year, or one hour for every 35 hours of work experience."
Does this mean that a LICSW needs to also be a LCSW?
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 10:03:13 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Hey guys come on !! You are sloppy and should be fired. The first name I look at that you discard is licensed and up to date:
Here take a look:
Your list says:
Beecher, Tanya Clinical Counselor ? Licensed Certified Social Worker- License has expired but is within one renewal period.
I check on line and she renewed last year:
http://license.reg.state.ma.us/pubLic/p ... loca&lb=SW (http://license.reg.state.ma.us/pubLic/pubLicenseQ.asp?board_code=SW&type_class=_1&license_number=000113673&color=loca&lb=SW)
your data is useless, this is why I post my own. You have such an agenda, you slander people and try to discredit them. This is their livelihood and you would rather lie about some poor kid making a living, drag their name thru the mud then admit ASR has licensed counselors.
You should write to her and apologize and edit your posts!! you have no ethics
Cut the drama Who. An oversight on my part due to multi-multi tasking. The error has been corrected on my list. Let me know if you find any others. So, 3 out of 11 are licensed.
And why aren't the Dir/Ass Dir licensed? I don't think you answered that.
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 10:08:58 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
You did the exact same thing to Doctor Cohen until I pointed it out to you. Work at an honest cause, okay, but have some respect for other people.
I assume you're directing that to me, since I posted that he wasn't licensed. Did you miss my explanation? Do you really need to hear it again? It also was corrected. I certainly wouldn't want to deprive you of another opportunity to whine about a human error.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 10:10:22 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Okay, I will write the apology letter myself and send it out since my name is on the thread; the rest of your data is useless. I went thru this with you last year when you posted a list of kids deaths. The first 3 or 4 I looked at died in a boating accident or a car accident at home and you were trying to blame the counselors and the school, as if they didn?t feel bad enough as it is. The only requirements to make the list was to have been in a mental health facility or driving by one or the whim of the person keeping the data at the time, it had no value so I started my own which I post here. I don?t pretend it is perfect but it maintains clear structure and is understandable. It would be nice if fornits got involved, but I understand that y0u need to see the negative value of it first before you sign up.
Who the hell are you talking to?
Post by: FLCLcowdude on February 22, 2007, 10:10:50 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 22, 2007, 10:16:26 PM
Quote
Cut the drama Who. An oversight on my part due to multi-multi tasking. The error has been corrected on my list. Let me know if you find any others. So, 3 out of 11 are licensed.
.
Deborah, peoples names shouldn?t be posted like that unless you double check especially when peoples careers are being talked about. I believe it is 4 out of 11, I think the source at ASR is more credible and is first hand knowledge.
Quote
And why aren't the Dir/Ass Dir licensed? I don't think you answered that
Don?t know, maybe they are. Is it required that they be licensed? I am not familiar with the specific law.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 22, 2007, 10:21:09 PM
Quote
I think the source at ASR is more credible and is first hand knowledge.
What source? You have no idea who this person was or if they even worked for ASR, youre just assuming because the information he provided works for your agenda.
This is why you have no credibility Cindy, you employ double standards in everything you do.
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 10:51:21 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I went thru this with you last year when you posted a list of kids deaths. The first 3 or 4 I looked at died in a boating accident or a car accident at home and you were trying to blame the counselors and the school, as if they didn?t feel bad enough as it is.
I assume again that you are addressing me since we were working off my list of "Deaths In Programs", which states that these SEVEN kids were killed in "a boating accident". Can you describe how this accident happened?
Quote
The only requirements to make the list was to have been in a mental health facility or driving by one or the whim of the person keeping the data at the time
Not true.
Quote
it had no value so I started my own which I post here. I don?t pretend it is perfect but it maintains clear structure and is understandable. It would be nice if fornits got involved, but I understand that y0u need to see the negative value of it first before you sign up.
Your "list" doesn't include all deaths because that is not your agenda. You are looking at suicides/homicides in TBSs vs the real world. And that is precisely what you sh0uld do.
Post by: Deborah on February 22, 2007, 11:13:34 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Deborah, peoples names shouldn?t be posted like that unless you double check especially when peoples careers are being talked about. I believe it is 4 out of 11, I think the source at ASR is more credible and is first hand knowledge.
Three. http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20728 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20728)
Quote from: ""Deborah""
And why aren't the Dir/Ass Dir licensed? I don't think you answered that
Quote from: ""The Who""
Don?t know, maybe they are. Is it required that they be licensed? I am not familiar with the specific law.
You checked Beecher, check those guys. ASR is not licensed. If they were, yes they would need to be licensed as would any staff providing supervision to unlicensed staff.
Post by: Troll Control on February 23, 2007, 08:10:26 AM
Quote
Whooter Libby Jr., Quoting an Anon said:
"they have 4 licensed staff 2 licensed social workers, 1 licensed drug addictions counselor and 1 licensed mental health counselor. they have 3 or 4 counselors waiting for the next test.?
We've been 'round and 'round on your anonymous sources, Whooter. even if your source is believable on his/her own merit (which can't be determined) the very fact that you repeat it destroys any credibility of the OP.
Quote
He who permits himself to tell a lie once, finds it much easier to do it a second and third time, till at length it becomes habitual; he tells lies without attending to it, and truths without the world's believing him. This falsehood of tongue leads to that of the heart, and in time depraves all its good dispositions.?
Thomas Jefferson
This is your lot, Whooter. It's sad to say, considering you were actually trying to accomplish something (not quite sure what it was though , other than promoting programs or getting referral fees) and now there's really nothing that you can say that anybody believes. It's too late and you're too far gone.
In talking with a couple other ASR supporters, I'm told that they agree with the premises of your argument - that ASR is a good place - but they have reported that you have done a great disservice by making anyone supporting ASR less credible by degrees due to your fabrications and faulty, unverifiable claims (one used the term "anonymous hearsay").
So, now I guess all that's left is to use your thread to brainstorm on how to get the authorites to review ASR and force it to register and license with the state as a Residential Treatment Center which will fundamentally alter the "program" and give voices and rights to the patients treated there, as delineated in the "patient bill of rights" Deb posted earlier.
This will ADD VALUE to ASR for the kids and families who can be assured that someone is watching what happens at ASR and that there is a mechanism for reporting abuse and that allegations will be investigated and dealt with in accordance with the law.
This is a hell of a lot more protections than these kids have now, that's for sure.
Post by: TheWho on February 23, 2007, 08:43:30 AM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Deborah, peoples names shouldn?t be posted like that unless you double check especially when peoples careers are being talked about. I believe it is 4 out of 11, I think the source at ASR is more credible and is first hand knowledge.
Three. http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20728 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20728)Quote from: ""Deborah""And why aren't the Dir/Ass Dir licensed? I don't think you answered thatQuote from: ""The Who""Don?t know, maybe they are. Is it required that they be licensed? I am not familiar with the specific law.
You checked Beecher, check those guys. ASR is not licensed. If they were, yes they would need to be licensed as would any staff providing supervision to unlicensed staff.
Good, so it looks like we have 3-4 licensed counselors. So they have shown they have licensed employees. Looks like the are in the process of doubling that figure in the near future.
Post by: TheWho on February 23, 2007, 08:44:47 AM
DJ wrote:
Quote
So, now I guess all that's left is to use your thread to brainstorm on how to get the authorites to review ASR and force it to register and license with the state as a Residential Treatment Center which will fundamentally alter the "program" and give voices and rights to the patients treated there, as delineated in the "patient bill of rights" Deb posted earlier.
Great, lets get to it! Its good to see you are looking at the larger picture.
See this isn?t too bad, doing something for the kids, for a change , will make you feel better, I guarantee it !!
Post by: Troll Control on February 23, 2007, 09:18:07 AM
The last time I checked (last year) ASR had no licensed employees, including the directors. I now see, thanks to Deb, that there are a couple. That's great. Still and all, ASR remains an unlicensed treatment center providing drug treatment and therapy illegally and providing mandatory group therapy three times a week facilitated illegally by unlicensed personnel - obviously Mass cannot allow them to continue operating as a "school," which they clearly are not.
See, Scooter, when someone presents facts I listen. when you talk, I don't because you have a demonstrated inability to tell the truth and you consistently lie and manipulate for sole purpose of "one-upsmanship," not helping any kids.
My focus will be to have ASR investigated by the state, be licensed or be forced to shut down. I'd prefer to see it shut down, but either way it will be better for the kids, for whom I advocate. You, on the other hand, Scooter, advocate for the program - to make it more money and to try to hide it's illegal behavior - therefore you advocate against the best interests of the kids. It's really that simple.
Now run along and collect some data or something while I set to work on shutting down your cash cow.
Post by: TheWho on February 23, 2007, 09:33:19 AM
Quote
See, Scooter, when someone presents facts I listen.
Thank you, it only took you about 100 pages to finally get it !!!!. They have licensed employees, as I have been telling you all along, but you are so hell bent on winning or owning people, as you call it, to maintain your ego you forget about what is right or best for the kids.
If you are going to push for regulation, do it for the right reason. Stay focused on what is best for the kids, put yourself aside and you will be more successful and your task will become easier for you.
Good luck!
Post by: Troll Control on February 23, 2007, 09:47:10 AM
It's very, very simple. I don't believe a single word you say. Therefore, I required a competent researcher with credibility (e.g. Deb) to pull the real data with easiliy verifiable sources, not something you and your imaginary friends have concocted.
So, now I am satisfied that they have three licensed staff, yes. But your fantasy about future licensing has no weight whatsoever because it came from you with no sourcing.
None of this changes the underlying problem that ASR is operating an illegal drug treatment center and forcing mandatory, illegal counseling by unlicensed staff on their patients. This is the real issue at hand and I intend to have the authorities deal with it accordingly.
Rest be assured, Scooter, that nothing you have said has influenced my judgement - I rely on mentally sound, credible people for counsel, not some crackpot liar from the internet. Your only purpose here is to distract from the issues by posting lies and unverifiable assertions. This is why nobody believes you. ::bangin::
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2007, 09:51:36 AM
Because they are management and are not required to be unless they are providing any direct conseling to clients or clinical supervision to counselors.
Post by: TheWho on February 23, 2007, 09:58:12 AM
Quote
Scooter. You're a child in a man's body.
And who is the one resorting to name calling since your lies were exposed? Ha,Ha,?.
The important thing is that you realize what I have been telling you for over 100 pages, whether you choose to believe sources at ASR, myself or Deborah, sooner or later I knew the facts would sink in
Post by: Troll Control on February 23, 2007, 09:58:35 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
"And why aren't the Dir/Ass Dir licensed? I don't think you answered that"
Because they are management and are not required to be unless they are providing any direct conseling to clients or clinical supervision to counselors.
Hmmmm....The Counseling Director is unlicensed and not supervising counselors? This doesn't make much sense to me.
Presumably he would be the one setting up the program and implementing it.
However, if what you're saying is indeed true, he would not need a license. It does seem misleading though. Maybe he should be called the "Program Manager" or something like that.
Who's supervising the drug rehab at ASR?
Post by: TheWho on February 23, 2007, 09:59:07 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
"And why aren't the Dir/Ass Dir licensed? I don't think you answered that"
Because they are management and are not required to be unless they are providing any direct conseling to clients or clinical supervision to counselors.
Thank you guest....
Post by: RobertBruce on February 23, 2007, 10:17:14 AM
You also still need to establish some sort of reliable source for your claim that four more staff are about to become licensed other than "some guy said so".
Oh and Cindy, it's friday, I believe you said you would answer my questions.
Let me know if you need them reposted.
Post by: Troll Control on February 23, 2007, 10:39:36 AM
It really doesn't matter how many are licensed or not and who supervises them if the program is not licensed in and of itself as both a RTC and a SAC. A "school" simply cannot legally engage in these services. It's patently illegal.
The tack we're taking here is not to force individuals to be licensed, but rather the facility itself.
Now, once it has been determined that these services have been provided illegally, then the licensing board will be begin to make legal cases against the individuals illegally providing services as well as the facility.
But we've got to go for cutting the head off - the workers are almost irrelevant.
Post by: TheWho on February 23, 2007, 10:40:03 AM
Bob wrote:
Quote
Cindy are you a Mormon?
No I am not but I have a cousin who dated a guy named Joe Smith jr and my mother in law listens to the Tabernacle choir at Christmas time if that helps at all.
Post by: Troll Control on February 23, 2007, 10:42:08 AM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 23, 2007, 10:50:37 AM
Cindy,
1. What points specifically do you believe you've "proven us wrong" on?
2. What is your definition of "group therapy"?
3. How do you believe kids should prove their claims of abuse?
4. What specifically have you done to help the kids locked up in these places?
5. Why did you lie claiming ignorace concerning the fact that TBS's lie to state regulators?
6. Why do these places avoid regulation if as you claim they have the kids best interest at heart?
7. What TBS's are bad in your opinion and why?
8. Why dont the people you claim to work with defend you?
9. Why havent the people mentioned in your PM's shown up?
10. Should therapy be given by unlicensed people?
11. Do you believe yourself to have high level of credibility here on fornits?
12. Are you an "axe grinder" with an agenda here?
13.How does you shipping your daughter off to a kiddie prison qualify you to commentate on the entire industry and determine what information parents need and what they dont need?
14. Since we've established that many times the murders that occur in the PTS are swept under the rug or lied about, how can you determine they should not count as homicides?
15. What are the proper procedures for killing a child?
16. Why did you change your mind regarding your feelings on regulation?
17. Why do you believe the person feeding the 300+lbs counselor should be held respondsible for the kids death at Eckerd, when the counselor not only chose to over eat, but to sit on the boy as well?
18. How many program owners do you personally know?
19. How does the fact that you claimed no evidence existed of kids being abused at ASR not translate in your mind to you dismissing their claims?
20. Since you did not experience the school for yourself how can you claim it to be positive?
Post by: TheWho on February 23, 2007, 10:50:50 AM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
I love it! He's trolling his own thread now. Can't help himself I guess...
Nah...your little friend has been pelleting me with questions over the past several weeks and I received some emails and PM's asking if I would ignore his trolling for awhile. So as a compromise I said I would humor him with some answers on Fridays, so as to not muck up the thread and save some of Gingers' memory space?.Plus Bob needs the attention.
The questions are relevant don?t you think? Ha,Ha??..
Post by: Ganja on February 23, 2007, 10:53:01 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Hi Bob, how was your week? I like this arrangement of speaking on Fridays, we got a lot done this week. So trying to catch up and I said I would start answering your questions, this was from 2 weeks ago:
Bob wrote:QuoteCindy are you a Mormon?
No I am not but I have a cousin who dated a guy named Joe Smith jr and my mother in law listens to the Tabernacle choir at Christmas time if that helps at all.
Bigamy? It's big of you, too. Let's be big for a change.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 23, 2007, 10:55:55 AM
Of course again in your mind a troll is a hero and a champion for the underdog-so I guess coming from you its a compliment.
Unless of course we're dealing with another one of your double standards?
Probably.
In any event get to it Cindy.
Post by: TheWho on February 23, 2007, 11:06:37 AM
Quote from: ""Ganja""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Hi Bob, how was your week? I like this arrangement of speaking on Fridays, we got a lot done this week. So trying to catch up and I said I would start answering your questions, this was from 2 weeks ago:Bigamy? It's big of you, too. Let's be big for a change.
Bob wrote:QuoteCindy are you a Mormon?
No I am not but I have a cousin who dated a guy named Joe Smith jr and my mother in law listens to the Tabernacle choir at Christmas time if that helps at all.
Ha,Ha,Ha,... I like that, Ganja
Post by: TheWho on February 23, 2007, 11:40:54 AM
Quote
What points specifically do you believe you've "proven us wrong" on?All of them
Quote
. What is your definition of "group therapy"?
Therapy with more than one person
Quote
3. How do you believe kids should prove their claims of abuse?
1st step, Go to the authorities
Quote
4. What specifically have you done to help the kids locked up in these places?
I have never seen a child locked up. If I did I would call the police or break the door down myself.
Quote
5. Why did you lie claiming ignorace concerning the fact that TBS's lie to state regulators?
I didn?t, I was not invited to the meeting where any of that was said nor did I attend.
Quote
6. Why do these places avoid regulation if as you claim they have the kids best interest at heart?
Because they feel the regulation would add no value or benefit the kids.
Quote
7. What TBS's are bad in your opinion and why?
We are starting to collect data at this point to rate the TBS?s on safety, it is preliminary.
Quote
8. Why dont the people you claim to work with defend you?
I don?t need defending, my points are clear and the truth eventually comes out.
Quote
9. Why havent the people mentioned in your PM's shown up?
They have, but they really aren?t internet/forum type people.
Quote
10. Should therapy be given by unlicensed people?
I really don?t know the laws, I believe if they are under the guidance of a licensed therapist, yes. But I would refer this to a professional who knows the laws/ protocol etc.
Quote
11. Do you believe yourself to have high level of credibility here on fornits?
I really don?t know or care. That only matters to people like yourself and DJ. I work to make life better for the kids, I don?t care what people think of me.
Quote
12. Are you an "axe grinder" with an agenda here?
No
Quote
13.How does you shipping your daughter off to a kiddie prison qualify you to commentate on the entire industry and determine what information parents need and what they dont need?
My daughter has never been to prison, so I wouldn?t know
Quote
14. Since we've established that many times the murders that occur in the PTS are swept under the rug or lied about, how can you determine they should not count as homicides?
I didn?t see where that was established. I would call the police and expose the people involved. I only count homicides/suicides if it is classified by the authorities as such. I don?t do what you or some people here on fornits do and reclassify a death because they believe something different than what the judge ruled
Quote
15. What are the proper procedures for killing a child?
Hmmmm. Got me on that one, I?ll have to refer this to the mass murderers
Quote
16. Why did you change your mind regarding your feelings on regulation?
I don?t believe I have
Quote
17. Why do you believe the person feeding the 300+lbs counselor should be held respondsible for the kids death at Eckerd, when the counselor not only chose to over eat, but to sit on the boy as well?
I think the counselor was misled about how many calories were in his meals and the scales were fixed, so he thought he only weighed 150 lbs
Quote
18. How many program owners do you personally know?
None
Quote
19. How does the fact that you claimed no evidence existed of kids being abused at ASR not translate in your mind to you dismissing their claims?
I believe the kids ?feel? they were abused, so I don?t dismiss it
Quote
20. Since you did not experience the school for yourself how can you claim it to be positive?
Because I witnessed and was part of the process and outcome. When I see someone?s face who just crossed the finish line and has just won the race I can see that he was successful and I don?t really need to be in his shoes to know he feels good about himself and his accomplishments, although I agree, it would be nice to experience it first hand.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 23, 2007, 11:44:59 AM
Tanya Beecher- Clinical Counselor-Licensed Social Worker
Sabrina Herman-Clinical Counselor-Licensed Social Worker
That's it, that's all the staff at ASR (not counting Ralphy who is there as a consultant) who can legally practice therapy.
According to the school the kids have:
group therapy 3 times a week
special group therapy once a week
individual therapy once a week.
If ASR is set up anything like HLA (and it is thanks to Cindy's hero Rudy Bentz) the director of counseling probably doesnt deal with the kids a whole lot, rather the staff.
That leaves these two women to handle the entire student population (which as it turns out is 100, not 200) because as we all know ASR would never do anything so illegal as allow unlicensed staff to practice therapy either in group or individual settings.
Right Cindy?
While youre evading that the issue has been settled, let's move on to the proper licensure issue. Mass Im sure has something equivalent to to the ORS in GA.
Post by: TheWho on February 23, 2007, 11:50:02 AM
Post by: Troll Control on February 23, 2007, 11:54:48 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Sorry, Bob, I answered all your questions, save them for next Friday
You bastard! :rofl:
Post by: RobertBruce on February 23, 2007, 11:55:17 AM
http://www.eec.state.ma.us/oo_licensing.aspx (http://www.eec.state.ma.us/oo_licensing.aspx)
Post by: RobertBruce on February 23, 2007, 11:59:31 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Sorry, Bob, I answered all your questions, save them for next Friday
It's fine Cindy, I know you can only handle so much at a time and you need to contact your employers for the correct misinformation regarding some of the tougher questions.
You take it easy, I'll respond to your latest nonsense and then you take a week to build up some courage and talk to me. Okay?
Post by: Troll Control on February 23, 2007, 12:00:34 PM
Quote
RB said:
What points specifically do you believe you've "proven us wrong" on?
Quote
Whooter Libby said:
All of them
Wow. You're either delusional or that selective memory problem has cropped up again...
"I don't recall having a memory problem, your honor."
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2007, 12:03:28 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 23, 2007, 12:54:26 PM
2. What is the difference between group therapy and what you described as group meetings you attended in highschool?
3. How are kids who are locked up able to go to the authorites?
4. Do you believe that because you have never seen a kid locked up that it does not occur in this industry?
5. Considering it was made clear in many discussions on many threads of which you pore over that TBS's routinley lie to states regaring their purpose, how were you ignorant of this fact?
6. What specifically have you done to help these kids?
7. Since you claim to now believe that licensure and regulation does benefit the kids, how then can you claim that the schools have the kids best interest at heart by avoiding licensure and regulation?
8. Considering you have yet to examine or accept reports of abuse coming from the PTS or even TBS's specifically how then can you claim to be examining TBS safety since all you are focused on is deaths?
9. You've been proven wrong on many points, why don't the people you claim to work with defend you?
10. You claim that the people who you work with arent internet or forum type people. How then were they able to PM you?
11. Should an unlicensed unsupervised person ever practice therapy?
12. Since it's been apparent since day one that you're obsessed with your credibility why are you now claiming not to care?
13. What is your definition of an "axe grinder with an agenda"?
14. How does you shipping your daugher off to a "TBS" qualify you to commentate on the entire industry and determine what information parents need or don't need?
15. How do you classify the deaths that the PTS declared accidential or related to a disease but were in reality caused by the direct actions off the staff if the case never came before a judge?
16. You claimed that a person in the public sector would not be charged with murder if a child died in their care in a manner similar to that of those in the PTS provided the person had followed the "proper procedure" What is the proper procedure for killing a child?
17. You claimed earlier that regulation only increases cost and paperwork. You questioned why would these places embrace regulation? Doesnt this conflict with your current opinion that the schools have the kids best interest at heart and regulation adds value?
18. Are you really so set on discounting every kids death in these places that you will honestly pretend a 300lbs man didnt know what damage he could do by sitting on a 11 year old?
19. Since you do not know any program owners how can you claim they have the kids best interest at heart?
20. How do you know the kids at ASR were never abused?
21. How does your claim that there is no evidence of abuse at ASR not discount the kids claims of being abused?
22. How can you determine the mindset of people when you have no frame of reference to go on?
23. Are you seeking professional help for your condition?
See you next week Cindy!
Post by: TheWho on February 23, 2007, 03:21:12 PM
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 [/u]
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open, 72 sources reviewed, mostly emails and news articles)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2004 thru June 2005
The data from the NCES is incomplete at this time. They are reporting an increase in suicide rates (at school) of over 100% from the previous year, but this is still in line with normal fluctuations from year to year and is below the 2002-2003 year levels.
Outside a TBS: Data not posted as of 2/20/2007
Inside a TBS Data not posted as of 2/20/2007
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: Troll Control on February 23, 2007, 03:26:58 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 23, 2007, 03:40:53 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
What do you care about current data? Just find an anonymous poster to post what you want then quote it and hold it out as fact. Or just make up the data like you were doing before.
Oh come on DJ, your still pissy from yesterday. I hear the sting wears off after awhile but lets not mope around.... I think you were working on Licensing requirements....how is that going?
Post by: Troll Control on February 23, 2007, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""What do you care about current data? Just find an anonymous poster to post what you want then quote it and hold it out as fact. Or just make up the data like you were doing before.
Oh come on DJ, your still pissy from yesterday. I hear the sting wears off after awhile but lets not mope around.... I think you were working on Licensing requirements....how is that going?
How on earth do you come to the conclusion that because you made up data that I would be hurt? All I'm saying is carry on making it up - nobody believes a word of what you're saying anyway.
Oh, I'm not moping around, I'm lining up the players for a full-frontal assault on ASR. I'm busy today.
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2007, 03:52:11 PM
In thirty years of operation not a single kid has ever been harmed in a TBS.
FACT
Post by: Troll Control on February 23, 2007, 03:58:02 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
In 1999 37,456 kids were killed by their teachers in public school.
In thirty years of operation not a single kid has ever been harmed in a TBS.
FACT
There you go, Scooter. Just quote this anon and close the book on your study. You're all set!
Post by: TheWho on February 23, 2007, 04:01:30 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
In 1999 37,456 kids were killed by their teachers in public school.
In thirty years of operation not a single kid has ever been harmed in a TBS.
FACT
Ha,Ha...thanks for the help!!!
Post by: TheWho on February 23, 2007, 04:08:13 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""What do you care about current data? Just find an anonymous poster to post what you want then quote it and hold it out as fact. Or just make up the data like you were doing before.
Oh come on DJ, your still pissy from yesterday. I hear the sting wears off after awhile but lets not mope around.... I think you were working on Licensing requirements....how is that going?
How on earth do you come to the conclusion that because you made up data that I would be hurt? All I'm saying is carry on making it up - nobody believes a word of what you're saying anyway.
Oh, I'm not moping around, I'm lining up the players for a full-frontal assault on ASR. I'm busy today.
You go get em tiger!!!! I will be watching CNN tonight, remember to wave and jump up and down and yell "Hello, Mom!!, I'm going to Disney World !!"
Post by: FLCLcowdude on February 23, 2007, 05:20:33 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""What do you care about current data? Just find an anonymous poster to post what you want then quote it and hold it out as fact. Or just make up the data like you were doing before.
Oh come on DJ, your still pissy from yesterday. I hear the sting wears off after awhile but lets not mope around.... I think you were working on Licensing requirements....how is that going?
How on earth do you come to the conclusion that because you made up data that I would be hurt? All I'm saying is carry on making it up - nobody believes a word of what you're saying anyway.
Oh, I'm not moping around, I'm lining up the players for a full-frontal assault on ASR. I'm busy today.
You go get em tiger!!!! I will be watching CNN tonight, remember to wave and jump up and down and yell "Hello, Mom!!, I'm going to Disney World !!"
And you claim I have no conscience nor manners. You prick, can't you ever learn? Hypocrisy will lead you nowhere, it makes you look like a dumb ass. Suck a dick dude....
Post by: Troll Control on February 23, 2007, 05:25:14 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""What do you care about current data? Just find an anonymous poster to post what you want then quote it and hold it out as fact. Or just make up the data like you were doing before.
Oh come on DJ, your still pissy from yesterday. I hear the sting wears off after awhile but lets not mope around.... I think you were working on Licensing requirements....how is that going?
How on earth do you come to the conclusion that because you made up data that I would be hurt? All I'm saying is carry on making it up - nobody believes a word of what you're saying anyway.
Oh, I'm not moping around, I'm lining up the players for a full-frontal assault on ASR. I'm busy today.
You go get em tiger!!!! I will be watching CNN tonight, remember to wave and jump up and down and yell "Hello, Mom!!, I'm going to Disney World !!"
Ha, Ha, Ha.... Same thing all the HLA freaks were saying before they got blasted. You'll slink away later and disappear when this turns out to be the case just like they did. This just goes to show you've nothing of value to add, only pitiful personal attacks. How sad for you. :cry:
Post by: Troll Control on February 23, 2007, 06:03:58 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
PLEASE stop asking WHO questions; or he/she/it will never go away. Who gives a rat's ass what this person answers? It's lies and makes no sense.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Post by: Troll Control on February 23, 2007, 06:13:13 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
It takes extrordinary measures to show the extrordinary lengths to which The Who will go to cover up the obvious fact that he's a liar. I gave him days of ample opportunity to quote a source or admit he had none. You see the result.
Pure, unadulterated, absolute evidence to show that The Who makes up "data" to appear as if he knows something about the subject matter, which he obviously does not.
BTW, what's wrong with holding The Who accountable? Why are you mad at me? he's the one responsible for this event. He could have been a man about it and just admitted it, but he's a worm, not a man.
historical perspective of the who just making up data, all the way from page 8 of this thread. been at it a while, huh? :rofl:
Post by: Troll Control on February 23, 2007, 06:18:54 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Quote
On 2006-06-26 10:59:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"The Who today:Quote
"I just don?t think anyone can state how many professionals in the world agree with you, DJ. It is an impossible task, let it go. There is no way to support it, I don?t believe any one can."
The Who at the beginning of his little lying spree:Quote
Posted: 2006-06-22 14:54:00
"You had approx 130 people sign the petition well lets say 150 to give you the best edge. There are probably 10,000 professionals in the U.S. (I know you compared your position to the whole world, but I dont have time nor the inclination to humor you). So you have 1.5 % of the professionals sign the paper. So if you had 1.5 % ( that agree with you) that leaves 98.5% that don?t. I would call that an over whelming majority."
Ooops! Just a little more lying in response to your other lies :lol:
YOU ARE PATHETIC.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer
Still waiting for you to explain your complete reversal of your position.
made up this data too, who? 10,000 mental health professionals in the us? 98.5% of these people support programs? man, you sure do make up a lot of figures!
Post by: hanzomon4 on February 23, 2007, 06:20:42 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
In 1999 37,456 kids were killed by their teachers in public school.
In thirty years of operation not a single kid has ever been harmed in a TBS.
FACT
Please tell me you're joking The Short List (http://http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp)
Post by: Oz girl on February 23, 2007, 06:55:31 PM
Post by: Troll Control on February 23, 2007, 07:12:31 PM
Post by: hanzomon4 on February 23, 2007, 08:06:14 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 24, 2007, 07:50:25 PM
The criticism is directed at the accuracy the table brings. I would like to defend the table by saying it has been built year by year and posted here with visibility for all to add their input, as anyone who has been reading along can testify. I have asked for anyone to point out if they believe a data point is inaccurate or if they have any input to add. I have sited my resources for each category at the bottom of the table. If anyone believes I have omitted anyone please speak up and provide the info so it can be correctly added and I will update the table.
I encourage criticism, but constructive criticism will benefit us all as we can work together to complete this and expand.
Post by: TheWho on February 24, 2007, 07:51:12 PM
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 [/u]
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide. (Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004
Outside a TBS: -----There where 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides (NCES)& (CDC)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides. ( Data set still open, 72 sources reviewed, mostly emails and news articles)*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2004 thru June 2005
The data from the NCES is incomplete at this time. They are reporting an increase in suicide rates (at school) of over 100% from the previous year, but this is still in line with normal fluctuations from year to year and is below the 2002-2003 year levels.
Outside a TBS: Data not posted as of 2/20/2007
Inside a TBS Data not posted as of 2/20/2007
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
Post by: RobertBruce on February 24, 2007, 08:01:56 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
There has been considerable criticism on the data table that we have been building and others who believe we should expand it to include all deaths, which we are attempting to do.
The criticism is directed at the accuracy the table brings. I would like to defend the table by saying it has been built year by year and posted here with visibility for all to add their input, as anyone who has been reading along can testify. I have asked for anyone to point out if they believe a data point is inaccurate or if they have any input to add. I have sited my resources for each category at the bottom of the table. If anyone believes I have omitted anyone please speak up and provide the info so it can be correctly added and I will update the table.
I encourage criticism, but constructive criticism will benefit us all as we can work together to complete this and expand.
Cindy I'm suprised, the words "work together" aren't two things you would normally stick together. Let's see how well you do.
I've given you numerous examples of deaths throughout the PTS. Youve discounted almost all of them. I would be willing to set them aside for the moment and look at them seperately if you could simply give me a reason as to why you believe they should be. A reason other than "we discussed it at a secret meeting" that of course no one attended.
Post by: TheWho on February 24, 2007, 08:20:39 PM
Post by: Troll Control on February 24, 2007, 08:26:45 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""PLEASE stop asking WHO questions; or he/she/it will never go away. Who gives a rat's ass what this person answers? It's lies and makes no sense.:lol: :lol: :lol:
true. :P
Post by: Anonymous on February 24, 2007, 08:35:00 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 24, 2007, 08:43:31 PM
Quote
I have gone thru each person you gave me Bob and they did not fit the parameters,
I understand that Cindy, what you fail to understand is that the only person involved in creating these parameters was you. No one else had any input, yet you expect us all to abide by your rules.
It doesnt work that way.
Quote
We are looking at Therapuetic boarding schools
No right now you are looking at Theraputic boarding schools. So far youve been so unwilling to establish parameters with anyone else that people are simply tuning out what you have to say on the matter. I'm only discussing it with you now because you expressed interest in working together. I'm curious to see how willing to do that you really are. My money at this point is betting that you can't handle it.
Post by: TheWho on February 24, 2007, 08:48:19 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteI have gone thru each person you gave me Bob and they did not fit the parameters,
I understand that Cindy, what you fail to understand is that the only person involved in creating these parameters was you. No one else had any input, yet you expect us all to abide by your rules.
It doesnt work that way.QuoteWe are looking at Therapuetic boarding schools
No right now you are looking at Theraputic boarding schools. So far youve been so unwilling to establish parameters with anyone else that people are simply tuning out what you have to say on the matter. I'm only discussing it with you now because you expressed interest in working together. I'm curious to see how willing to do that you really are. My money at this point is betting that you can't handle it.
I have always just been looking at TBS's, Bob. I have been taking a look at the safety of TBS's vs the public sector. After this we can move on to Wilderness or Bootcamps if that suits everyone. I would eventually like to cover the entire industry so we have a complete picture.
Post by: Troll Control on February 24, 2007, 08:49:27 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Why is everyone so mean to The Who? He's got a right to his opinions, doesn't he?
Yes, but he states that his opinions are facts, which people object to pretty strongly. Go back and read this thread. He makes up "data" and yammers on about it for 20 pages, gets proven wrong over and over, then changes his original premises and the cycle starts over. He's worn out quite a few people at this point.
Post by: TheWho on February 24, 2007, 09:07:54 PM
I guess another reason not to just lump all regions of the Therapeutic industry together is that they may not have the same fatality rates and if a person is considering a specific area (i.e. TBS, wilderness, boot camp) they can see just that aspect if they like.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 24, 2007, 10:49:04 PM
Quote
No right now you are looking at Theraputic boarding schools. So far youve been so unwilling to establish parameters with anyone else that people are simply tuning out what you have to say on the matter. I'm only discussing it with you now because you expressed interest in working together. I'm curious to see how willing to do that you really are. My money at this point is betting that you can't handle it.
I have always just been looking at TBS's, Bob. I have been taking a look at the safety of TBS's vs the public sector. After this we can move on to Wilderness or Bootcamps if that suits everyone. I would eventually like to cover the entire industry so we have a complete picture.
My statement was meant to emphasis that you were focused on TBS's, not "we" are focused on TBS's. Sorry for any confusion.
Quote
I guess another reason not to just lump all regions of the Therapeutic industry together is that they may not have the same fatality rates and if a person is considering a specific area (i.e. TBS, wilderness, boot camp) they can see just that aspect if they like
Fine, this is the first legitimate reason youve given which I appreciate. That being said though can you understand why some parents might want all the options left open to them, and that by withholding that information you are effectively trying to make the choice for them?
Why not present the entire picture and then allow the parents to decide what they are and what they are not interested in?
Post by: TheWho on February 24, 2007, 11:19:05 PM
My intention is to not discard any information, I am not trying to steer parents away from boot camps and have them send there kids to TBS?s, it was just a beginning. If my daughter had gone to a boot camp I would have probably chosen to measure them first?. Does that make sense?
Post by: RobertBruce on February 25, 2007, 09:44:02 AM
A good analogy might be this; you're a waiter at a resturant, two people come in who have never eaten at your place before. When you bring them the menu youve purposely marked out several items on the menu. When they ask you why you state, "Oh you won't like those items, I can tell." The truth is though you cant tell, youre denying them options based on what you think they want or need.
I feel they should be given all the options and the truth behind each one.
How about this, do it my way and if in the end its too confusing or disjointed we'll go back and do it your way section by section. Ill even help you and wont say a bad word about it.
Agreed?
Post by: TheWho on February 25, 2007, 10:18:10 AM
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 (Test Table)
Public Sector: -------There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides , X other, X Total
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS -------------------There where 0 Homicides, 2 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 other, 2 Total
Boot camp ----------There where X Homicides, X suicides, X accidental, 0 other, X Total
Wilderness ----------There where X Homicides, X suicides, X accidental, 0 other, X Total
Mental Facility -----There where X Homicides, X suicides, X accidental, 0 other, X Total
Other -----------------There where X Homicides, X suicides, X accidental, 0 other, X Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry ---There where X Homicides , X suicides, X accidental, 0 other, X Total
Post by: Troll Control on February 25, 2007, 10:22:39 AM
Post by: RobertBruce on February 25, 2007, 10:32:23 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Maybe something like this?
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000 (Test Table)
Public Sector: -------There where 1,537 Homicides and 1,415 suicides , X other, X Total
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS -------------------There where 0 Homicides, 2 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 other, 2 Total
Boot camp ----------There where X Homicides, X suicides, X accidental, 0 other, X Total
Wilderness ----------There where X Homicides, X suicides, X accidental, 0 other, X Total
Mental Facility -----There where X Homicides, X suicides, X accidental, 0 other, X Total
Other -----------------There where X Homicides, X suicides, X accidental, 0 other, X Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry ---There where X Homicides , X suicides, X accidental, 0 other, X Total
I think thats reasonable.
Post by: TheWho on February 25, 2007, 10:34:53 AM
Post by: Deborah on February 25, 2007, 10:45:23 AM
The only programs on the record opposing the legislation (for state regulation) were Spring Creek Lodge Academy of Thompson Falls and Monarch School of Heron.
Only two people verbally testified in opposition to the bill. The first was Gary Spaeth, a lobbyist for the Montana Alternative Adolescent Private Programs (MAAPP), an organization Spaeth said represents ?between 10 and 12? programs operating in Montana (Spaeth couldn?t recall which Montana schools were members of MAAPP, nor could Patrick McKenna, director of Monarch School and the organization?s president).
?I appear here as an opponent of this particular bill, but a very light opponent,? Spaeth said, adding that he agreed ?with everything that was said? in previous testimony. ?We applaud this bill. We recognize the need in this state for licensure.? Yet Spaeth expressed concern over the bill?s particulars, including its prohibition on the transfer or sale of licenses.
(Imagine that!)[/i]in which case then I don?t feel like the program voice is really going to be heard as well,? McKenna said.
But Sen. Carol Williams of Missoula thought McKenna?s concerns were unjustified.
?I think this bill goes a long way to making it so that it?s more transparent, there are more peopled involved in it, and it isn?t controlled by the industry or a few people in the industry or a few areas within the industry,? Williams said. (self-regulation)
Sen. Jim Elliott of Trout Creek plans to introduce a competing bill, Spaeth said, that addresses some of the details to MAAPP?s satisfaction. At press time that bill was still in draft form.
Meanwhile, everyone at Friday?s hearing seemed to agree that serious regulation of Montana?s teen help industry is long overdue.
?As one parent wrote me, ?the state of Montana needs to step in with regulations which ensure safety,?? Schmidt said in closing, ??because when it comes to unregulated boarding schools for disturbed adolescents, they are sure sitting on a powder keg.??
Post by: TheWho on February 25, 2007, 11:17:05 AM
I have drawn criticism by comparing children to cars and other objects. My intention (and other people when this is used) isn?t to belittle the child but to show a relationship between unrelated subject matters where one isn?t obvious and by doing this the person hopes to make a point.
But we do run the risk of offending people as it appears Gary Spaeth did.
Post by: TheWho on February 26, 2007, 08:37:20 PM
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There where 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 other, 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) ----------There where 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 other, 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) --------------------There where 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 other, 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) ----------There where 0Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 other, 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) ------------------There where 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 other, 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -----There where 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 other, 5 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
X -- Incomplete
Post by: RobertBruce on February 27, 2007, 12:55:21 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 27, 2007, 01:23:09 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Why are we are we starting with 00-01 instead of 99-00?
Because I am missing the names from my data base and cant provide Back up data for that year. I will post it when I find them. Do you possibly have that info?
So I have created a "Data File" here on fornits so it will not happen again.
Post by: psy on February 27, 2007, 07:55:58 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""Why are we are we starting with 00-01 instead of 99-00?
Because I am missing the names from my data base and cant provide Back up data for that year. I will post it when I find them. Do you possibly have that info?
So I have created a "Data File" here on fornits so it will not happen again.
Did I ever mention I used to work in IT. In addition to being a sys-admin, rack monkey, and general purpose tech, i was also the resident DBA (database admin)... for the SQL database I designed... And yes i wrote the frontend as well... in a language I HATE and refuse to ever ... ever use again.
What software are you using to analyze/store the data you are collecting? Notepad? I am actually curious, considering losing just a single year is an impressive feat? How did you manage?
Most of this thread I ignore completely. I just happen to find what you did mildly amusing.
Post by: TheWho on February 27, 2007, 08:09:49 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""RobertBruce""Why are we are we starting with 00-01 instead of 99-00?
Because I am missing the names from my data base and cant provide Back up data for that year. I will post it when I find them. Do you possibly have that info?
So I have created a "Data File" here on fornits so it will not happen again.
Did I ever mention I used to work in IT. In addition to being a sys-admin, rack monkey, and general purpose tech, i was also the resident DBA (database admin)... for the SQL database I designed... And yes i wrote the frontend as well... in a language I HATE and refuse to ever ... ever use again.
What software are you using to analyze/store the data you are collecting? Notepad? I am actually curious, considering losing just a single year is an impressive feat? How did you manage?
Most of this thread I ignore completely. I just happen to find what you did mildly amusing.
Why amusing? I am trying to organize some data so that people can access it. Thought I would throw it up on Fornits so others could contribute and add names as they come across them. I Just asked Ginger if she had any suggestion on where I could place the data for safe keeping and so it can be retrieved. Not looking to create a relational database or anything.. any suggestions?
We have SQL on our system and I like Access as a front end (for my stuff). I was told its a pig on memory but I can get reports and changes done quickly. What did you build the front end with?
Most of this thread is not worth reading I agree, you could compress it down to 25 posts if you eliminated the spam, trolls and flame wars. I havnt been working on this for a year, I have been out of the country for a good part of 2006.
Post by: psy on February 27, 2007, 10:39:32 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""psy""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""RobertBruce""Why are we are we starting with 00-01 instead of 99-00?
Because I am missing the names from my data base and cant provide Back up data for that year. I will post it when I find them. Do you possibly have that info?
So I have created a "Data File" here on fornits so it will not happen again.
Did I ever mention I used to work in IT. In addition to being a sys-admin, rack monkey, and general purpose tech, i was also the resident DBA (database admin)... for the SQL database I designed... And yes i wrote the frontend as well... in a language I HATE and refuse to ever ... ever use again.
What software are you using to analyze/store the data you are collecting? Notepad? I am actually curious, considering losing just a single year is an impressive feat? How did you manage?
Most of this thread I ignore completely. I just happen to find what you did mildly amusing.
Why amusing? I am trying to organize some data so that people can access it. Thought I would throw it up on Fornits so others could contribute and add names as they come across them. I Just asked Ginger if she had any suggestion on where I could place the data for safe keeping and so it can be retrieved. Not looking to create a relational database or anything.. any suggestions?
No need for anything fancy. Just use an excel spreadsheet. If it ever gets too big you can easily import the records into SQL. Let's hope that doesn't happen. They aren't just numbers and names. Keep a backup. Preferably non-local. An ftp server someplace will do. That's what I use for critical stuff.
Quote
We have SQL on our system and I like Access as a front end (for my stuff). I was told its a pig on memory but I can get reports and changes done quickly. What did you build the front end with?
Backend was MS (crash all the fucking time and slow as shit) SQL server.
Front end was ... *teeth grinding* VB. I might have used access if it was something simple but for reasons i cannot bla bla because of the hush hush, we needed something more flexible and lightweight. I ended up generating reports using CrystalReports though. I'm not much of a Microsoft person normally (which is a good part of why i hated that job). It was government subcontracting and we had to use what "the customer"(popular euphemism around DC) was using.
I'm not sure how popular my database was with the users though... I had a micromanaging boss who used to insist I make detailed changes to data fields when he had no clue what he was doing at all. I ended up having a fake frontend (and even reports) for him, and a real one for everybody else. Kind of like a crib toy for an anal-retentive ex-army boss. Nobody could understand the data the way he wanted it presented... and his sense of design was... Typical army. It was sad, he was losing his memory (Alzheimer's probably). He needed to have a "function". He was the working type. He would ask me to change something one way, and then the next minute yell at me and tell me to change it back. He would forget what he had told you 5 minutes previously. It got progressively worse and worse. Eventually he retired... he kind of had to. He was one huge spanner in the works... left a trail of damage behind him... The fucked up thing is he didn't realize he had memory problems... everybody knew it. Everybody went to his boss and practically begged him to say something to him... to get him help as much as to get him of our backs... Things ran sooooo smoothly after he retired...
Quote
Most of this thread is not worth reading I agree, you could compress it down to 25 posts if you eliminated the spam, trolls and flame wars. I havnt been working on this for a year, I have been out of the country for a good part of 2006.
Post by: Anonymous on February 27, 2007, 10:56:15 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 28, 2007, 10:18:29 AM
We have mostly SQL server. We have a couple of places that utilize Oracle. I usually like to have an MSAccess front end for report viewing /printing. Ha,Ha, I don?t know if you were referring to me, as milk insinuated, but I use to interface directly with our programmers and found I was wasting a lot of their time. I use one person now that I explain my needs to and they interface with MIS and it works out for all of us.
Post by: RobertBruce on February 28, 2007, 11:57:13 AM
17 years old
5/14/2001 Edgemeade-Raymond A. Rogers Jr. School
Restraints
Eddie Lee 15 years old
9/18/2000
Obsidian Trails Outdoor Program
Restrained, reported beaten
Tanner Wilson 11 years old
2/9/01
Gerard, Iowa Facility
Heart attack while being physically restrained
Post by: TheWho on February 28, 2007, 01:27:45 PM
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X other, X Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 other, 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 other, 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 1 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 other, 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 other, 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 other, 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 1 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 other, 5 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
X -- Incomplete
Post by: RobertBruce on February 28, 2007, 02:25:35 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 28, 2007, 02:56:59 PM
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, X Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, -----1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Restraint, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, -----1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Restraint, ----- 5 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
X -- Incomplete
Post by: RobertBruce on February 28, 2007, 03:01:03 PM
Quote
Do you think it makes sense to add a category Called ?Restraint?. So these can be tracked separately? It appears this may become a main category.
I'm of the philosphy that just because these people got away with murder doesnt change the fact that they still murdered a kid.
Until that matter is settled I believe that a restraint category is in order. "Other" is just too ambigious.
Post by: TheWho on February 28, 2007, 03:21:30 PM
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, X Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Restraint, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Restraint, ----- 5 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
X -- Incomplete
Post by: RobertBruce on February 28, 2007, 03:59:27 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 28, 2007, 09:03:32 PM
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, X Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Restraint, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Restraint, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Restraint, X Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Restraint, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Restraint, ----- 3 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Anonymous on February 28, 2007, 09:18:11 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 28, 2007, 09:20:10 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 28, 2007, 09:21:03 PM
Post by: TheWho on February 28, 2007, 09:27:31 PM
Post by: TheWho on March 01, 2007, 05:07:54 PM
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, X Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Restraint, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Restraint, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Restraint, X Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Restraint, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Restraint, ----- 3 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: TheWho on March 02, 2007, 11:42:53 AM
If anyone has any additional names, you can PM me or post them here.
Thanks
Post by: Troll Control on March 05, 2007, 01:37:52 PM
Earlier today TheWho happened to mention that he did not unconditionally love his child - that he doesn't believe in unconditional love from a parent to a child.
I then asked this question:
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Maybe I can make this much simpler before we get into some more nonsense.
Who, exactly what conditions does your daughter need to meet in order for you to love her?
I'm just waiting for the answer now.
Post by: TheWho on March 05, 2007, 04:30:11 PM
Psy wrote:
Quote
?There are certain things that can completely sever the ties of love between parent and child. There is no such thing as "unconditional". Fool yourself all you wish, but if I were you, I would at least ask those questions you are afraid to, and beg for the forgiveness that you do not deserve.
I responded:
Quote
That is pretty intense and it is a good point,psy. Parents should keep a thumb on the pulse of their child and listen to how they are doing. If they sound distressed when they call you should ask to have another conference with them to insure that they are okay. I remember on a particular occasion, after my daughter ran away , that she sounded distressed and we scheduled another call back about an hour later and we talked it thru and spoke for about 45 minutes. She was struggling with a balance between her school work and what they expected to do during her off time which didn?t allow for her studies. She wasn?t use to working that hard. My daughter doesn?t thank me for sending her there but she understands that it was good for her (she wouldn?t want to do it over again, though).
I am not a big believer in ?unconditional love?. I think the bond between a parent and child is built upon a foundation started from infancy and is solidified over time from years of trust and formed from the natural dependency, nurturing and love that occurs and that the home is a safe place to grow, spread your wings, make mistakes, fall and start over. The home should never be a place to be embarrassed or feel ashamed it should be a place to practice life without being judged. If this process is interrupted or threatened the parent is the one who needs to step in and right its course.
If I asked my daughter tomorrow where she would rather be if there was trouble in her life I know she would chose home, because that is where her family is and that is where she feels safe. This is the place she comes to when she needs to sort out answers or scream at someone or ask for advice or feel safe.
Unconditional love, no it isn?t?but we continue to work on it every day and the working at it is what love is and it keeps us together.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... 21f#249509 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249509&sid=fcbda67a7059ad6dda4c26d159b0d21f#249509)
I think many of you know me as one who doesn?t believe in absolutes. I don?t believe all TBS?s are bad and I don?t believe they are all good either. I don?t believe anything is unconditional (sorry, just my nature). I think any bond can be broken if it is not cared for, is neglected, abused enough it will fail. I don?t think anyone will love you (unconditionally) ?no matter what? under all circumstances. If I had turned my back on my daughter when she was in crisis and did nothing I think that would have affected our relationship later on when she looked back and saw I didnt take action or attempt to help her.
Sorry if my beliefs offend others....y0u need to get past it, DJ !
Post by: TheWho on March 05, 2007, 07:41:16 PM
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Restraint, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Restraint, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Restraint, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Restraint, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Restraint, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Restraint, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Troll Control on March 06, 2007, 09:10:14 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
So, here's where we're at:QuoteTheWho said:
"I don't believe in unconditional love"
If you don't believe in unconditional love, then therefore you must believe in conditional love or that love doewsn't exist. TheWho went on to state that he does believe love exists, but it is conditional.
TheWho was then asked if love is conditional, what are the conditions he requires to love his daughter, since he already stated he doesn't love her unconditionally.
It's a logical progression and completely sound. TheWho is trying to back out of his statement now, but he did say it, several times in fact.
Here's the argument:
1. Love exists.
2. Love is not unconditional.
3. Therefore love is conditional.
4. Love is given to individuals based on certain conditions.
5. Therefore TheWho has conditions that people must meet in order to gain his love.
6. Therefore his daughter would need to meet those conditions.
7. Therefore TheWho does not unconditionally love his daughter.
This begs the question "Under which conditions does TheWho love his child, and under which conditions does he not?"
It's really a simple question to answer.
Post by: TheWho on March 06, 2007, 09:32:34 AM
?Unconditional love is a concept that means showing love towards someone regardless of his or her actions or beliefs.?
I don?t see this as a set of conditions that need to be met. Lets say a family believes it has unconditional love for one another and the parents severely beats his children and abuses them. My belief is that at some point if this continues this bond will be broken and the child will no longer love his parents. Therefore this love does, in fact, have boundaries and limits. If this is true than it can not be called unconditional.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 06, 2007, 09:57:25 AM
Post by: Troll Control on March 06, 2007, 10:27:39 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""So, here's where we're at:QuoteTheWho said:
"I don't believe in unconditional love"
If you don't believe in unconditional love, then therefore you must believe in conditional love or that love doewsn't exist. TheWho went on to state that he does believe love exists, but it is conditional.
TheWho was then asked if love is conditional, what are the conditions he requires to love his daughter, since he already stated he doesn't love her unconditionally.
It's a logical progression and completely sound. TheWho is trying to back out of his statement now, but he did say it, several times in fact.
Here's the argument:
1. Love exists.
2. Love is not unconditional.
3. Therefore love is conditional.
4. Love is given to individuals based on certain conditions.
5. Therefore TheWho has conditions that people must meet in order to gain his love.
6. Therefore his daughter would need to meet those conditions.
7. Therefore TheWho does not unconditionally love his daughter.
This begs the question "Under which conditions does TheWho love his child, and under which conditions does he not?"
It's really a simple question to answer.
:cry: ::puke::
Post by: Troll Control on March 06, 2007, 10:30:41 AM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Deborah or Milk can we please get this nonsense out of this thread and over to the other thread dedicated to his nonsense?
Seriously, this guy trolls up thread after thread and you want somebody to put effort into editing this thread? :rofl:
This is where this guy's perversions :o should be discussed. It's his.
Post by: Deborah on March 06, 2007, 10:45:44 AM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Deborah or Milk can we please get this nonsense out of this thread and over to the other thread dedicated to his nonsense?
Did you forget which thread you were in? This is "The Who" thread.
Post by: TheWho on March 06, 2007, 12:21:11 PM
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Restraint, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Restraint, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Restraint, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Restraint, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Restraint, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Restraint, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Troll Control on March 06, 2007, 02:53:33 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
So, here's where we're at:QuoteTheWho said:
"I don't believe in unconditional love"
If you don't believe in unconditional love, then therefore you must believe in conditional love or that love doewsn't exist. TheWho went on to state that he does believe love exists, but it is conditional.
TheWho was then asked if love is conditional, what are the conditions he requires to love his daughter, since he already stated he doesn't love her unconditionally.
It's a logical progression and completely sound. TheWho is trying to back out of his statement now, but he did say it, several times in fact.
Here's the argument:
1. Love exists.
2. Love is not unconditional.
3. Therefore love is conditional.
4. Love is given to individuals based on certain conditions.
5. Therefore TheWho has conditions that people must meet in order to gain his love.
6. Therefore his daughter would need to meet those conditions.
7. Therefore TheWho does not unconditionally love his daughter.
This begs the question "Under which conditions does TheWho love his child, and under which conditions does he not?"
It's really a simple question to answer.
This is where we're at.
Post by: TheWho on March 06, 2007, 03:16:14 PM
Quote
This begs the question "Under which conditions does TheWho love his child, and under which conditions does he not?"
It's really a simple question to answer.
I thought I had addressed this one, maybe in the other thread though......
Well, I look at it a little differently. I don?t place conditions as you say (like a list of requirements) on loving someone or someone loving me.
?Unconditional love is a concept that means showing love towards someone regardless of his or her actions or beliefs.?
I don?t see this as a set of conditions that need to be met. Lets say a family believes it has unconditional love for one another and the parents severely beats his children and abuses them. My belief is that at some point if this continues this bond will be broken and the child will no longer love his parents. Therefore this love does, in fact, have boundaries and limits. If this is true than it can not be called unconditional.
Post by: Anonymous on March 08, 2007, 11:40:23 AM
Post by: TheWho on March 08, 2007, 07:00:32 PM
Quote
Cindy neither my comment nor the one I was responding to was referring exclusivily to ASR.
Thank you, all I am asking is to stick to what you know. If your experience is with another school like HLA, then state that.
Quote
Now it's true that the bulk of the comment was written by Deborah, the bottom portion, or the "excuse" as we both agreed to term it, was made by you. I'm glad that you can at least see it for what it was, and I look forward to laughing at you as you pretend you didnt first lie about not having made an excuse but then make a secondary blunder in forgetting what you yourself wrote.
I still don?t see an excuse?. I see a response?my point has always been that these schools evolve over time and what happened 15,20,30 years ago doesn?t always apply today?..you need to keep current, Bob.
Post by: Anonymous on March 08, 2007, 07:40:05 PM
Post by: TheWho on March 08, 2007, 07:46:31 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
why didn't you repost your little tantrum? you get really upset at robert's continued ownage of you. don't get so upset.
Nah.... I just feel bad that this has to muck up the other thread. People have trouble following the conversation when Bob gets trolling.
I would rather move it over here, thats all.....
Post by: RobertBruce on March 08, 2007, 07:58:42 PM
Tell me something Cindy, what exactly is your definition of trolling? You change it so often one can never tell.
Post by: TheWho on March 08, 2007, 08:04:28 PM
Troll
? A person who intentionally tries to cause disruption, often in the form of posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting, incorrect, inaccurate, absurd, or off-topic, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others.?
Another word that you and DJ use a lot and seems to be important to you is ? ownage?. What does this mean?
Post by: RobertBruce on March 08, 2007, 08:07:02 PM
What began Cindy's temper tantrum and subsequent shitting of his pants was a discussion he held with a guest poster.
Observe:
Quote
Quote:
This is absurd. In what public or private school are the kids forbidden to speak to family for months on end? Name one.
Cindy responded.....
"This wasn?t stated by me. "
Quote
Quote:
Uh, sounds good on paper, but when there's no mechanism to report abuse, the kid is shit out of luck. Also, the parents are manipulated so heavily by the program that if there kid complains to them, they are not believed. Often kids will not risk angering their parent or the program out of fear that they will be kept longer.
Your excuses just don't cut the mustard, Who.
His witty retort.....
"Most kids don?t rely on protocol in the public school system to report abuse. They tell their parents and the folks take it from there. I am sure some schools exist which try to manipulate the parents because there are all types, but they are probably few and far between.
I looked back over the past several pages and I don?t see where I was making any excuses. "
Post by: RobertBruce on March 08, 2007, 08:13:31 PM
Quote
A year or so ago, I didnt know what it meant. Here is the definition that I was given:
Troll
? A person who intentionally tries to cause disruption, often in the form of posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting, incorrect, inaccurate, absurd, or off-topic, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others.?
I asked you for your definition Cindy, based on that definition the majority of my posts wouldnt qualify as trolling, so I'm interested to hear how you qualify it.
Quote
Another word that you and DJ use a lot and seems to be important to you is ? onage?. What does this mean?
Again youre confused, neither DJ nor myself have ever used the word "onage" on fornits.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
Post by: Anonymous on March 08, 2007, 08:13:56 PM
Post by: TheWho on March 08, 2007, 08:16:46 PM
Just tell all of us you have no experience with ASR...... its a small step, really it is.
Post by: TheWho on March 08, 2007, 08:34:03 PM
Quote
I asked you for your definition Cindy, based on that definition the majority of my posts wouldnt qualify as trolling, so I'm interested to hear how you qualify it.
Ha,Ha,Ha, Bob. At least you admit you troll, I will give you that?. Do me one favor ?.go to the search function and search for, say, your last 50 posts. Read thru them and see if you can figure out how many are where you actually engage in a conversation and give your input (add value) and how many are dedicated to tearing other people down and their opinions. If you decide to count the former you won?t need a pencil.
Bob you don?t engage in conversation here. You hover in the back ground and try to tear other people down. How does that help kids? The rest of us are trying to share our opinions, learn something new, exchange ideas etc?..anyway with that said?I have adopted the definition of a troll that was given to me a year ago?. See how this fits
Troll
? A person who intentionally tries to cause disruption, often in the form of posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting, incorrect, inaccurate, absurd, or off-topic, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others.?
Post by: RobertBruce on March 08, 2007, 08:35:29 PM
Quote
Quote:
This is absurd. In what public or private school are the kids forbidden to speak to family for months on end? Name one.
This wasn?t stated by me.
That as we have already established is Cindy claiming that he had not stated public schools prevent kids from communicating with parents for months on end.
Here was my reply (please note all of the following statements from me according to Cindy classify as "trolling" and/or "being a troll")
No, but you justified it by stating that most places (according to you) restrict communication for kids, so it really isn't that big of a deal.
Here I provide an example for him:
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Quote:
My point is there are varying degrees of restriction. Your child can not speak to you during school hours in many schools, except during lunch. When I went to school you couldn?t use the phone unless you went to the principal?s office and used his phone. Many summer camps restrict the use of phones, kids would go on outward bound trips for months and only communicate a few times back home.
We then returned back to the original posts, the next comment being:
Quote
Quote:
Most kids don?t rely on protocol in the public school system to report abuse. They tell their parents and the folks take it from there. I am sure some schools exist which try to manipulate the parents because there are all types, but they are probably few and far between.
To which I replied (remember according to Cindy this is all trolling).
Kids in public school arent censored or monitored in their communications. If a kid calls home and says "my teacher hit me" the principal isnt going to hang up the phone and then send the kid out into the woods for three weeks in order to prevent him from telling his parents the truth. TBS's dp this as a matter of principal. Just as often as they refuse to allow kids to send out mail in which they claim to be abused, again public schools do not do this.
As a add on I decided to ask Cindy to clarify his position on one comment in particular. So far he's been too ashamed.
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I am sure some schools exist which try to manipulate the parents because there are all types, but they are probably few and far between
Do you have an actual basis for this claim or are you just hoping this is the case?
My address to his final comment is what really pushed Cindy over the edge. Let's have a look.
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I looked back over the past several pages and I don?t see where I was making any excuses.
Then you aren't paying close enough attention. Here, this took all of about 14 seconds of back reading:
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Deborah wrote:
Quote:
"Working here is a dream come true".- Common comment by staff at Aspen Achievment Academy.
This enthusiasm is common to Special Purpose Schools and Programs, and very understandable for several reasons. First: Paperwork, red tape, and regulations are kept to a minimum. This is a refreshing change for those staff who came from hospitals and treatment centers where the need to meet regulations sometimes overshadows the needs of the residents.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... sit01.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1992/4/visit01.html)
They had already had a kid on suicide watch jump off a cliff and a 14 year old girl sodomized by a female "counselor".
I think it should be noted, this was 20 years ago......
Now in all fairness I didn't differentiate between the two posts very well, the bulk of the comment was made by Deborah, the excuse on the bottom as Cindy and I both termed it was made by Cindy. That being said however I didnt dig up the post from the ancient archives of something made eons ago. This was a post made by him a little over a week ago. Cindy however forgot.
We'll take a look at his total and complete melt down shortly. Stick around.
:wink:
Post by: RobertBruce on March 08, 2007, 08:38:36 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Come on Bob, Lets get to the good part where you have to admit you have no experience with ASR and you were only relating your experiences thru another school. After all this wasnt an HLA conversation, was it?
Just tell all of us you have no experience with ASR...... its a small step, really it is.
I'll make a deal with you Cindy, I'll acknowledge that just as soon as you can acknowledge that you have a limited experience with ASR and no experience with any other school.
Deal?
Post by: TheWho on March 08, 2007, 08:43:03 PM
Post by: TheWho on March 08, 2007, 08:49:20 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Come on Bob, Lets get to the good part where you have to admit you have no experience with ASR and you were only relating your experiences thru another school. After all this wasnt an HLA conversation, was it?
Just tell all of us you have no experience with ASR...... its a small step, really it is.
I'll make a deal with you Cindy, I'll acknowledge that just as soon as you can acknowledge that you have a limited experience with ASR and no experience with any other school.
Deal?
Show me where I ever stated my experience went outside SUWS and ASR.... I talk about it often and acknowledge this anytime anyone asks me. You are trying to bring your experience with HLA over here and pretend you know how these places operate and you don?t have a clue. You troll and criticize people with first hand knowledge which is wrong.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 08, 2007, 08:58:29 PM
Quote
Ha,Ha,Ha, Bob. At least you admit you troll, I will give you that?.
Oh absolutly, I'm sure Shortbus and Bullfrog would agree that I trolled them a time or two. Nothing really since them though.
Quote
?. Do me one favor ?.go to the search function and search for, say, your last 50 posts. Read thru them and see if you can figure out how many are where you actually engage in a conversation and give your input (add value) and how many are dedicated to tearing other people down and their opinions. If you decide to count the former you won?t need a pencil.
I'll do that just as soon as you go back through my previous 50 posts and count the number of times I used the term "onage", if you decide to count it you won't even need to take your shoes off.
In all honesty though Cindy I'd like to see you back up your claim for once. If you feel all I do is tear people (you) down then provide the posts. If youre correct (youre not) I'll apologize and be on my way. Now my guess is that you'll follow your usual M.O. and reply with something along the lines of.
Quote
Ha ha Bob, I'm not going to do your homework for you.
Even though its actually your home work since its your claim, you won't do it, you're just too stupid and lazy I guess. That and somewhere in that deranged head of yours you know youre wrong.
Quote
Bob you don?t engage in conversation here. You hover in the back ground and try to tear other people down. How does that help kids?
Cindy I've proven to you that I've helped these kids, at the same time I asked you weeks ago to name a single thing you had done to help these kids. So far youve been unable to answer. While youre stewing on that let me illuminate you on a little history of fornits.
I've been here longer than you have Cindy, by about a year. When I first came onto fornits and Amazing Forums and started posting I tried sharing my experiences and relating what I felt HLA was truly like. This was generally answered with admonishments from people like Bullfrog, Lynn, Tunafish, et cet that I was "lying" or misrepresenting the truth" that it "wasn't really like that". Through all the back and forth parents weren't sure who to believe. I quickly learned to switch tactics, you take the verifiable facts, in HLA's case the big thing for awhile was the fact that they were not licensed and had unlicensed staff, and you beat the program defenders over the head with it. This tactic is much more effective as I'm sure you can attest due to your overwhelming frustration. I keep you on the defensive, and it keeps you from giving parents bad information. Eventually you get so tired of being put to shame you leave. It works every time Cindy, eventually it will work with you.
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The rest of us are trying to share our opinions, learn something new, exchange ideas etc?
Others are I agree, you just work to propogate as much of your bullshit as possible, and hope someone buys into it.
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?..anyway with that said?I have adopted the definition of a troll that was given to me a year ago?. See how this fits
Troll
? A person who intentionally tries to cause disruption, often in the form of posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting, incorrect, inaccurate, absurd, or off-topic, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others.?
Insulting I'll give you. I insult you on a regular basis because youre an idiot and I call it like I see it. Plus you have such a high opinion of yourself and believe your opinions should be accepted as fact. Even in insulting you though it's always in conjunction with tearing down your posts/position because generally everything you post is either made up, unverifiable, or complete and total nonsense.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 08, 2007, 09:01:36 PM
Quote
Show me where I ever stated my experience went outside SUWS and ASR.... I talk about it often and acknowledge this anytime anyone asks me. You are trying to bring your experience with HLA over here and pretend you know how these places operate and you don?t have a clue. You troll and criticize people with first hand knowledge which is wrong.
Yikes. Cindy I'm going to give you a chance to edit this one. Ive got to head out real quick but Ill be back on later tonight. If I find that you have edited your post I'll delete this one. I wouldnt want you to be utterly shamed twice in one night.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 08, 2007, 09:03:23 PM
Quote
I think I made him Mad again......... he is doing a lot of work....lets sit back for a little bit.....Sorry everyone ...... but I think at the end he will have to admit he has no knowledge of ASR.
Mad again? When was I mad the first time? Cindy you were the one who threw a temper tantrum and started screaming remember?
Oh well, like I said Ive got to head out real quick, the deal is still on the table. You let me know Sport.
Post by: TheWho on March 08, 2007, 09:25:11 PM
Quote
I've been here longer than you have Cindy, by about a year. When I first came onto fornits and Amazing Forums and started posting I tried sharing my experiences and relating what I felt HLA was truly like. This was generally answered with admonishments from people like Bullfrog, Lynn, Tunafish, et cet that I was "lying" or misrepresenting the truth" that it "wasn't really like that". Through all the back and forth parents weren't sure who to believe. I quickly learned to switch tactics, you take the verifiable facts, in HLA's case the big thing for awhile was the fact that they were not licensed and had unlicensed staff, and you beat the program defenders over the head with it. This tactic is much more effective as I'm sure you can attest due to your overwhelming frustration. I keep you on the defensive, and it keeps you from giving parents bad information. Eventually you get so tired of being put to shame you leave. It works every time Cindy, eventually it will work with you.
Because you feel you are more effective as a side man who annoys people, this makes you feel good about what you do here? But at some point wont you want to do more for the kids? That?s what I do or try to do every day, you seem to feel good about yourself by spending hours trying to chase someone away?.think about it Bob. Sure people might have made fun or not believed you a year ago, but you have to put yourself out there again and again and try to rally for the kids sake, Bob, if you care, talk about your experiences with other parents, let them know what to look for, how to help their kids. Dump the bitterness and try being more proactive.
I would be so depressed at night having to do what you do all the time?did you look back at your past 50 posts? Are you proud of that? Do you think it helps kids?
Post by: RobertBruce on March 08, 2007, 10:33:46 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on March 08, 2007, 10:43:35 PM
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... sit01.html[/url]
They had already had a kid on suicide watch jump off a cliff and a 14 year old girl sodomized by a female "counselor".
I think it should be noted, this was 20 years ago......
If that isnt an excuse what would you prefer to call it?
[/quote]
Here is where it gets funny...
Ha,Ha,?. Wrong again Bob !!! You failed to notice that I didn?t write this, I didn?t make any excuses?.this was Deborah?s post?..
Cindy in such a rush to try and win an argument forgot what he himself had written less than 10 days ago.
Priceless.
After being completly embarrassed and made to look a total jackass here's what Cindy had to say:
Quote
Lets not muck up this thread anymore than it is, I will answer you in the ?thewho?. thread.
Ba Zing.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 08, 2007, 10:54:53 PM
Quote
I think I made him Mad again......... he is doing a lot of work....lets sit back for a little bit.....Sorry everyone ...... but I think at the end he will have to admit he has no knowledge of ASR.
I'm not mad Cindy, in fact Ive been laughing at you all night. As to my comments regarding ASR, Ive never made a charge against them without either having the facts to back it up, or acknowleding I made a mistake.
That being the case I know more than enough about ASR to make the comments Ive made.
I guess you should have stuck with the experience criteria.
Post by: TheWho on March 08, 2007, 11:14:52 PM
I will take that as an admission that you have no first hand knowledge of ASR or any school except HLA. You really like to take the long way around don?t you?
You admit that you don?t like to get involved and contribute here on fornits, but prefer hounding (trolling) other people for the joy in it and the hope they will go away.
And to boot, you are still having a good night and feel good about yourself, excellent, Bob.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 08, 2007, 11:21:32 PM
Quote
Show me where I ever stated my experience went outside SUWS and ASR.... I talk about it often and acknowledge this anytime anyone asks me.
Yet you constantly talk about them like youre familiar with each and every one.
Take a look:
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But I have seen first hand as have many that these school are effective, very effective
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I think most of these school are run with the best intentions in mind and are willing to change policies if they are found to be abusive.
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Do you think this can happen over and over again and not make the headline news? Fox news would love to feature this stuff, any news agency would (even if it were half true). But it is not, we know that because parents would shut these places down in a heart beat if they even used language they hear here on fornits against them!
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Imagine what would happen if a kid got raped or abused on a Therapeutic boarding school or all places!! Talk about a story and headlines!! They have been operating for decades???.
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After 2 decades there is enough "lack of incidences evidence" to indicate that many of these places are safe. Something would have surfaced, after 20 years, if there was a systemic problem.
So on the basis of shipping your daughter off to two programs (worked like a charm the first time huh?) you're able to commentate on the entire industry.
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You are trying to bring your experience with HLA over here and pretend you know how these places operate and you don?t have a clue
Well the truth is I do know how many of these places operate, they by and large use many of the same techniques, strip searches, monitoring communications, coercive therapy et cet.
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You troll and criticize people with first hand knowledge which is wrong.
Do I now? Sort of like you pretending to have a better understanding of what the situation was regarding the nurse at HLA then we did? Or you dismissing kids claims of abuse, first hand claims no less. Would those be examples of you trolling and criticizing people with first hand knowledge? Yes.
I'll tell you what princess, I can tell youre all worked up about this and still steamed about making yourself look stupid, so here's what I'm going to do; Find me a single claim or accusation from me directed towards a school of which I have no knowledge or experience and Ill apologize on both here and to the school itself.
I'd also like you to provide 5 examples each of DJ and I using the term "onage".
Post by: TheWho on March 08, 2007, 11:30:29 PM
I will take that as an admission that you have no first hand knowledge of ASR or any school except HLA. You really like to take the long way around don?t you?
You admit that you don?t like to get involved and contribute here on fornits, but prefer hounding (trolling) other people for the joy in it and the hope they will go away.
And to boot, you are still having a good night and feel good about yourself, excellent, Bob.
Quote
Find me a single claim or accusation from me directed towards a school of which I have no knowledge or experience and Ill apologize on both here and to the school itself.
I'd also like you to provide 5 examples each of DJ and I using the term "onage".
you are better at the busy work than I am, I will pass........
Post by: RobertBruce on March 08, 2007, 11:37:08 PM
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Because you feel you are more effective as a side man who annoys people,
I annoy you primarily, this isnt my goal but it is a nice bonus.
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this makes you feel good about what you do here?
Yes very.
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But at some point wont you want to do more for the kids?
I have already done and continue to do a great deal for the kids.
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That?s what I do or try to do every day,
What a failure! :D Cindy I asked you several times to cite a single thing you had done to help these kids. You came up empty every time.
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you seem to feel good about yourself by spending hours trying to chase someone away?.think about it Bob
Hmmmm....yes I do, I feel very good about working to get rid of people who want to see these kids hurt. Why wouldnt I?
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Sure people might have made fun or not believed you a year ago, but you have to put yourself out there again and again and try to rally for the kids sake
Two years ago but youre right, I do put myself out here for the kids. Im glad you can see that.
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Bob, if you care, talk about your experiences with other parents
I already do.
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let them know what to look for
I already do.
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how to help their kids
I already do.
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Dump the bitterness and try being more proactive.
I'm not bitter, I forgave HLA of its sins against me long ago, and my efforts at derailing program puppets (you) misinformation campaign is very proactive.
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I would be so depressed at night having to do what you do all the time
What helping kids? That's because you dont give a shit about them, we established this weeks ago.
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did you look back at your past 50 posts?
No did you? I don't need to Cindy, I know what I contribute, and I dont forget my own comments unlike you.
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Are you proud of that?
Yes.
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Do you think it helps kids?
Of course.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 08, 2007, 11:44:48 PM
Quote
Oh my goodness, I guess you told me!
I sure did!
Quote
I will take that as an admission that you have no first hand knowledge of ASR or any school except HLA.
It changes again! So you went from "experience" to "knowledge" and to on to "first hand knowledge". What's next? I digress though let's see.....no your statement is not an accurate assesment at all. I have a great deal of first hand knowledge of schools other than HLA.
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You admit that you don?t like to get involved and contribute here on fornits, but prefer hounding (trolling) other people for the joy in it and the hope they will go away.
No not at all. Getting rid of you and idiots like you is contributing to fornits, after you leave and before your replacement shows up I'll take a much different approach. Do some back reading for reference. You are correct about their being joy in it though, it's hilarious watching you get upset.
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And to boot, you are still having a good night and feel good about yourself, excellent, Bob.
Right on the money Cindy!
Post by: RobertBruce on March 08, 2007, 11:51:57 PM
Quote
Oh my goodness, I guess you told me, again!
I sure did...again!
Quote
is my anger showing
In HD quality Cindy.
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I will take that as an admission that you have no first hand knowledge of ASR or any school except HLA. You really like to take the long way around don?t you?
It changes again! So you went from "experience" to "knowledge" and on to "first hand knowledge". What's next? I digress though let's see.....no your statement is not an accurate assesment at all. I have a great deal of first hand knowledge of schools other than HLA.
Quote
You admit that you don?t like to get involved and contribute here on fornits, but prefer hounding (trolling) other people for the joy in it and the hope they will go away.
No not at all. Getting rid of you and idiots like you is contributing to fornits, after you leave and before your replacement shows up I'll take a much different approach. Do some back reading for reference. You are correct about their being joy in it though, it's hilarious watching you get upset.
Quote
And to boot, you are still having a good night and feel good about yourself, excellent, Bob.
Right on the money Cindy!
Quote
you are better at the busy work than I am, I will pass........
Like I said, youre just too stupid and lazy. If you change your mind though you might be able to find one or two examples in the same posts where DJ acknowledged he ignored his kids and I claimed the best way to handle teens with issues is to ignore them.
:rofl:
Post by: TheWho on March 09, 2007, 12:02:11 AM
Try communicating with some of the other people a little, I think it would be much more rewarding than just trolling.. just try a couple of people a day to start ....see what it is like.. ..dont think I could do what you do all day...but to each his own as they say....
Have a good night Bob.
Post by: Anonymous on March 09, 2007, 12:17:57 AM
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Post by: RobertBruce on March 09, 2007, 12:34:08 AM
Quote
Oh, now you are giving me hints, Ha,Ha, I will still pass....leave that stuff to you....
It was a hint allright, one you still somehow missed. I was pointing out that you routinley claim people have made statements they never made. Much as DJ never claimed to ignore his kids, much as I never claimed the best way to handle teens with issues was to ignore them, neither one of us has ever used the term "onage" on fornits.
You simply made it up. Youre just too delusional and full of yourself to recognize it.
Quote
the main thing is that you dont take this too seriously or get upset.
I dont know Cindy, organized child abuse upsets me. Im glad you can admit that it doesnt bother you though, thank you for being honest.
Quote
I just post what I feel is the right information for parents to have
Right because you still feel your limited experience somehow makes you an expert on the field. Once again youre just an arrogant asshole.
Quote
and share my experiences
Your experiences of sitting at home not caring while your daugher suffered. Sounds like a real page turner.
Quote
I know mine tend to rub people the wrong way
Thats because you tend to lie about things and ignore the truh.
Quote
but it is only for the benifit of the kids that I do....
See another lie.
Quote
....wouldnt want them to end up in some dump getting abused...know what I mean?
Whats going on at SUWS these days? Do you ever talk to old Rudy anymore?
Quote
Try communicating with some of the other people a little, I think it would be much more rewarding than just trolling.. just try a couple of people a day to start ....see what it is like..
:D Oh Cindy are you under the impression youre the only person from fornits I talk to? Youre alot of fun Cindy, but you arent that special, I have other fronts I work on and people that matter a great deal more than you.
Quote
dont think I could do what you do all day...but to each his own as they say....
No, I dont think you could help kids all day either.
Post by: Anonymous on March 09, 2007, 12:36:05 AM
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Post by: TheWho on March 09, 2007, 02:23:30 AM
Try communicating with some of the other people a little, I think it would be much more rewarding than just trolling.. just try a couple of people a day to start ....see what it is like.. ..dont think I could do what you do all day...but to each his own as they say....
Look at your last 50 posts and judge for yourself
Have a good night Bob.
Post by: try another castle on March 09, 2007, 02:32:03 AM
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Post by: RobertBruce on March 09, 2007, 02:42:07 AM
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Post by: TheWho on March 09, 2007, 02:44:54 AM
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Ha,Ha,Ha, like this little guy !!
Post by: RobertBruce on March 09, 2007, 02:49:23 AM
Quote
Oh, now you are giving me hints and explaining them, Ha,Ha, I will still pass....
Yet youre still too stupid to get it.
It was a hint allright, one you still somehow missed. I was pointing out that you routinley claim people have made statements they never made. Much as DJ never claimed to ignore his kids, much as I never claimed the best way to handle teens with issues was to ignore them, neither one of us has ever used the term "onage" on fornits.
You simply made it up. Youre just too delusional and full of yourself to recognize it.
Quote
the main thing is that you dont take this too seriously or get upset.
I dont know Cindy, organized child abuse upsets me. Im glad you can admit that it doesnt bother you though, thank you for being honest.
Quote
I just post what I feel is the right information for parents to have
Right because you still feel your limited experience somehow makes you an expert on the field. Once again youre just an arrogant asshole.
No, I dont think you could help kids all day either.
Quote
and share my experiences
Your experiences of sitting at home not caring while your daugher suffered. Sounds like a real page turner.
Quote
I know mine tend to rub people the wrong way
Thats because you tend to lie about things and ignore the truth.
Quote
but it is only for the benifit of the kids that I do....
See another lie.
Quote
wouldnt want them to end up in some dump getting abused...know what I mean?
Whats going on at SUWS these days? Do you ever talk to old Rudy anymore?
Quote
Try communicating with some of the other people a little, I think it would be much more rewarding than just trolling.. just try a couple of people a day to start ....see what it is like..
Oh Cindy are you under the impression youre the only person from fornits I talk to? Youre alot of fun Cindy, but you arent that special, I have other fronts I work on and people that matter a great deal more than you.
Quote
dont think I could do what you do all day...but to each his own as they say....
Post by: RobertBruce on March 09, 2007, 02:55:29 AM
I do it to piss him off because I find it to be funny.
Neither helps these kids, I know Cindy doesnt give a shit about them but I do.
Post by: Anonymous on March 09, 2007, 03:42:23 AM
Post by: TheWho on March 09, 2007, 07:06:29 AM
Quote
Oh Cindy are you under the impression youre the only person from fornits I talk to? Youre alot of fun Cindy, but you arent that special, I have other fronts I work on and people that matter a great deal more than you.
We noticed this all along and the database seems to differ with you also, Here take a look, not much focus on helping kids here, by Bob,is there?
http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?searc ... 6e5b432276 (http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?search_author=RobertBruce&sid=e354adb2f1eacb063c9c506e5b432276)
Bob, my point has been to try to give a little of your own experience , share that with other parents.
As an example, you responded to one of my posts with:
Right because you still feel your limited experience somehow makes you an expert on the field. Once again youre just an arrogant asshole.
And this is fine and all, but you place yourself lower because you fail to show the readers your view. You only mention you feel my experience is limited. A better, more educated response may have been:
Thewho, having a daughter at ASR for over a year doesn?t make you an expert, in my opinion, Although I have never been to ASR myself I have attended HLA and feel my opinions count for more.
This way the reader can come away from the conversation with some perspective, flaming just makes you look angry at me?.see the difference? The readers may, over time, even become interested in your opinion.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 09, 2007, 10:25:30 AM
Quote
We noticed this all along and the database seems to differ with you also, Here take a look, not much focus on helping kids here, by Bob,is there?
Poor Cindy, he's still so confused. We established yesterday that keeping you on the defensive is helping kids but if that wasnt enough I spend a great deal of time each day talking with fornits posters and working on different issues. Now you may not be aware of this fact but you can actually speak to people on fornits, off of fornits. I'm not sure if you're aware of that, but I promise you it can be done, and not just at places like your imaginary meetings that never occured. You see Cindy, when I use the term "we" it's because more then one person was involved in my end of the discussion, and again unlike you the people I talk to aren't in my head.
Quote
Bob, my point has been to try to give a little of your own experience , share that with other parents.
Again you weren't paying attention, ask for help from your imaginary friends if you need it, I'm sure they have a better grip on reality then you do. As a hint I'll tell if youre really so concerned about what I post then you should do a little back reading.
Quote
And this is fine and all, but you place yourself lower because you fail to show the readers your view.
My view is that youre an arrogant asshole. This has been supported with facts.
Quote
You only mention you feel my experience is limited
No, I know your experience is limited, as do all posters who read your nonsense.
Quote
A better, more educated response may have been:
Thewho, having a daughter at ASR for over a year doesn?t make you an expert, in my opinion, Although I have never been to ASR myself I have attended HLA and feel my opinions count for more.
I'd be glad to just as soon as you start acknowledging more educated responses like:
You have a limited experience with ASR and SUWS, you assume they're good places but you really don't know. That's the extent of your knowledge and experience.
But as has been established, youre an arrogant asshole and would never acknowledge just how little you truly know. Espically about this industry.
Quote
This way the reader can come away from the conversation with some perspective, flaming just makes you look angry at me?.see the difference?
Ha ha, not after they see your temper tantrum from last night. Have you calmed down from that yet buddy? You almost had an aneurism. Youre the only one getting angry here, just like youre the only one who constantly has to put your foot in your mouth, just like youre the only who has to avoid the tough questions, just like youre the only one who has to pick and choose what he will and will not respond to, just like youre the only one who has to consistently make things up as a means of deflecting from your own idiocy.
Readers see all that too Cindy.
Quote
The readers may, over time, even become interested in your opinion.
Theyre already there CIndy, maybe someday you'll know what thats like.
Post by: Ganja on March 09, 2007, 10:45:22 AM
Post by: TheWho on March 19, 2007, 04:54:07 PM
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Restraint, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Restraint, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Restraint, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Restraint, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Restraint, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Restraint, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: TheWho on March 20, 2007, 03:59:44 PM
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Restraint, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Restraint, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Restraint, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Restraint, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Restraint, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Restraint, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Restraint, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Restraint, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Restraint, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Anonymous on March 20, 2007, 04:08:35 PM
Private programs are expensive. I think it's safe to assume many kids who go to programs are also enrolled in private school while at home. Do these statistics meld together the violence rates of urban poor schools as well as the well funded upper class neighborhood private schools? One could assume you are trying to use the numbers to manipulate the data to show public schools as more dangerous than the average school a prospective program kid is attending.
We all know kids get in fights, hurt each other and gang members sometimes shoot each other. Parents even accept that there might be a Columbine situation at the school, and their kid might be hurt. What parents are not ready to accept, is teachers and school administration staffers who murder students.
If five teachers a year were executing students for gargling milk in their grammar school classrooms in front of the other kids, or shoving chemicals down a young boys throat and restraining him until he dies, or a teacher sitting on top of a kid for an hour until they die. These are different than your average kid vs. kid violence that we all know exists and expect.
Is there a difference between a kid being marched to death in a wilderness camp against their will and a kid who is pushed hard on the soccer field, both of whom die of heat exhaustion? Well, one might argue that one kid was doing it willingly, and one was not. If that makes a difference. I assume, to the parent, as far as guilt is concerned, this seemingly small distance between these two situations is greatly magnified.
Just some thoughts.
Post by: TheWho on March 20, 2007, 04:44:56 PM
Quote
How many homicides in public schools involved the teachers tackling and sitting on top of a child until they suffocated to death?
We have not attempted to break down each Homicide yet. Not sure if the NCES has this detail for publication.
Quote
Private programs are expensive. I think it's safe to assume many kids who go to programs are also enrolled in private school while at home. Do these statistics meld together the violence rates of urban poor schools as well as the well funded upper class neighborhood private schools? One could assume you are trying to use the numbers to manipulate the data to show public schools as more dangerous than the average school a prospective program kid is attending.
Good point, although I am not sure of the breakdown of kids transferring into a TBS, RTC, boot camp etc. from a Public or private school. If we knew this it would go a long way in helping us decipher the data. If we had NCES data from the private school industry it would help to put this in a better perspective. If we could create more categories i.e. restraint, heat exhaustion etc. it would better help to compare the two industries also.
Quote
We all know kids get in fights, hurt each other and gang members sometimes shoot each other. Parents even accept that there might be a Columbine situation at the school, and their kid might be hurt. What parents are not ready to accept, is teachers and school administration staffers who murder students.
I agree, that is another reason parents seek out placement in schools which are safe or at least safer than where their child is presently. Parents are seeing more and more violence coming from the teachers, kids being sexually molested etc. TBS?s seem to be a safe haven from most of these problems.
Quote
If five teachers a year were executing students for gargling milk in their grammar school classrooms in front of the other kids, or shoving chemicals down a young boys throat and restraining him until he dies, or a teacher sitting on top of a kid for an hour until they die. These are different than your average kid vs. kid violence that we all know exists and expect.
True, the teachers would be fired for much less than that in our school district. Hell the next town over had a teacher fired for talking about kids with same sex parents!! Ha,Ha, imagine what would happen if they gave kids chemicals? Or sat on them?
Quote
Is there a difference between a kid being marched to death in a wilderness camp against their will and a kid who is pushed hard on the soccer field, both of whom die of heat exhaustion? Well, one might argue that one kid was doing it willingly, and one was not. If that makes a difference. I assume, to the parent, as far as guilt is concerned, this seemingly small distance between these two situations is greatly magnified.
Yes, there is a difference. Both parents would be grieving the death of their child. The parent who sent their child to wilderness would probably feel more guilt because parents don?t typically insist their kids play soccer.
Good points, thank you!
Post by: RobertBruce on March 20, 2007, 05:18:02 PM
Quote
Parents are seeing more and more violence coming from the teachers, kids being sexually molested etc. TBS?s seem to be a safe haven from most of these problems.
There is absolutly no basis for this claim nor is there any data to back it up.
Post by: TheWho on March 20, 2007, 05:53:11 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Just as a side note.QuoteParents are seeing more and more violence coming from the teachers, kids being sexually molested etc. TBS?s seem to be a safe haven from most of these problems.
There is absolutly no basis for this claim nor is there any data to back it up.
No studies have been done or are presently being funded that I am aware of, it is just an observation.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 20, 2007, 06:17:38 PM
Post by: TheWho on March 20, 2007, 07:05:55 PM
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=251495#251495 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=251495#251495)
Post by: Troll Control on March 21, 2007, 08:01:12 AM
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Post by: TheWho on March 21, 2007, 01:16:39 PM
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: TheWho on March 25, 2007, 02:18:58 PM
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Post by: TheWho on March 26, 2007, 11:39:15 AM
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252022#252022 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252022#252022)
Post by: Anonymous on March 26, 2007, 11:55:28 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
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Post by: Anonymous on March 26, 2007, 12:05:19 PM
(http://http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/lead-paint/MY%20GIFS/viki.gif)
Post by: TheWho on March 26, 2007, 12:12:57 PM
It appears from a Homicide point of view as well as others the therapeutic sector is proving to be an extremely safe environment, especially TBS and Wilderness.
We will be adding the 2004 -- 2005 shell hopfully this week and retrieve data from the NCES.
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http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252038#252038 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252038#252038)
Post by: RobertBruce on March 26, 2007, 12:22:38 PM
As to your "numbers" until you start including all the deaths your numbers are nothing more than your own slanted propoganda and just as useless as you are.
Post by: TheWho on March 26, 2007, 12:28:20 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Oh Cindy, you give me far too much credit. Perhaps its time you accepted that I'm not the only one on here that recognizes you for the idiot you truly are. The recent posts made weren't done by me, although I appreciate them all the same.
As to your "numbers" until you start including all the deaths your numbers are nothing more than your own slanted propoganda and just as useless as you are.
This is an open forum, just post your list and I'll add them in...Others have responded with their input and then have been incorporated. These numbers are a result of everyone?s effort, not just my own, I am just organizing and posting them.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 26, 2007, 12:32:05 PM
Post by: TheWho on March 26, 2007, 12:44:07 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Unless they dont fit your parameters though. Sorry Cindy, youve proven youre afraid of the truth and only want to highlight things that paint the industry in a positive light, not an honest one. There really isnt much point in trying to accomplish anything with you, because you refuse to see the facts and are a waste of time.
We knew you didnt have anything to add, Bob. Just reaffirming for the new viewers here.
So moving on to 2004 - 2005, if you have any input we are starting to assemble that matirx and put the data together...let us know if you have anything.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 26, 2007, 12:54:57 PM
When you decide to be honest about the whole mess you let me know, if that ever happens I'll be glad to help you out.
Post by: TheWho on March 26, 2007, 12:58:40 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Back to a team effort huh Cindy? Well tell your imaginary friends/stuffed animals that as soon as any of you decide to start looking into this objectively and honestly then we'll talk. I doubt that day will ever come because that would require you to be realistic about the abuse going on in TBS's. Not your ridiculus claim of "less than 1% of all kids in TBS's being abused." Until you start doing so there is no way for you to determine the safety level of these kids locked up in TBS's. Not to mention you refusing to even look at the deaths going on in the other facets of the industry. Like I said all youve got is slanted propoganda that no one gives a shit about except you and your imaginary friends. No one.
When you decide to be honest about the whole mess you let me know, if that ever happens I'll be glad to help you out.
Sorry you feel that way Bob. If you change your mind and decide to help us out or want to add your input anytime in the future, you are always welcome.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 26, 2007, 12:58:52 PM
Something these new viewers won't have any trouble determining at all.
Or did you forget about all the questions floating around that youve been too afraid to answer?
Post by: Anonymous on March 26, 2007, 01:00:27 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
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Post by: TheWho on March 26, 2007, 01:01:48 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Oh and in the meantime please remember, Ive added and contributed more to fornits and in helping parents then you ever could.
Something these new viewers won't have any trouble determining at all.
Or did you forget about all the questions floating around that youve been too afraid to answer?
You keep forgetting, Friday is question day Ha,Ha,..... but you have a few yourself to answer before I begin, you thought I forgot?
Post by: RobertBruce on March 26, 2007, 01:01:50 PM
Quote
Sorry you feel that way Bob. If you change your mind and decide to help us out or want to add your input anytime in the future, you are always welcome.
Like I said, whenever the voices in your head convince you to be honest about it, you can count on me.
Until that day youre on your own and rest assured no one who's read your ramblings is going to pay attention to your propoganda because they all know you have zero credibility as youve been caught in too many lies.
Sorry Cindy that's just the way it is.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 26, 2007, 01:03:47 PM
Quote
You keep forgetting, Friday is question day Ha,Ha,..... but you have a few yourself to answer before I begin, you thought I forgot?
Really? By all means fire away. I unlike you don't require several days or weeks in your case to talk to my employeers in order to come up with answers that meet the bullshit quota.
Post by: TheWho on March 26, 2007, 02:53:21 PM
Quote
Is it your claim that no kids died in any of the discussed teen industry venues for the period in question?[/b]
See Below, Bob:
If any of the areas need clarification, feel free to ask me.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It appears from a Homicide point of view as well as others the therapeutic sector is proving to be an extremely safe environment, especially TBS and Wilderness.
We will be adding the 2004 -- 2005 shell hopfully this week and retrieve data from the NCES.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: RobertBruce on March 26, 2007, 03:26:23 PM
Quote
I will hold this open to see if Bob can come up with any data to add to this.
Oh I can Cindy, however since no one takes you seriously and you and your numbers are viewed as a joke due to your lack of honesty and objectivity, I see it as a waste of my time.
If you ever come around then I'll help you, but you won't so I see no reason to give you stats that you claim arent real.
By the way you mentioned some unanswered questions you had for me last time Cindy. I'm eager to see them.
Post by: TheWho on March 26, 2007, 03:52:26 PM
Quote
I see no reason to give you stats that you claim arent real.
So none exist as I had indicated earlier?just wanted to firm that up for everyone else. So we will move to close out some of the previous years and keep open the current 2 years.
Quote
By the way you mentioned some unanswered questions you had for me last time Cindy. I'm eager to see them.
You already have them, you will have to search for them yourself, address them properly in the appropriate forum and then we can move on with your questions.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 26, 2007, 03:56:01 PM
Quote
So none exist as I had indicated earlier?just wanted to firm that up for everyone else. So we will move to close out some of the previous years and keep open the current 2 years.
No kids died? Is that your claim Cindy, I just want try and get you to be forthright about this. Is it your claim that no kids died in any of the discussed teen industry venues for the period in question?
Yes or no?
Looking forward to watching you evade.
Quote
You already have them, you will have to search for them yourself, address them properly in the appropriate forum and then we can move on with your questions.
So none exist as I had indicated earlier?just wanted to firm that up for everyone else.
Post by: TheWho on March 26, 2007, 04:38:18 PM
Quote
Is it your claim that no kids died in any of the discussed teen industry venues for the period in question?[/b]
See Below, Bob:
If any of the areas need clarification, feel free to ask me.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It appears from a Homicide point of view as well as others the therapeutic sector is proving to be an extremely safe environment, especially TBS and Wilderness.
We will be adding the 2004 -- 2005 shell hopfully this week and retrieve data from the NCES.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles, posts and PM?s
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: RobertBruce on March 26, 2007, 04:43:36 PM
So to dumb it down, your claim is that for 2003-2004, no kids died in any of the teen help venues?
Yes or no?
Also are you certain about the previous year? What exactly are your sources?
Post by: TheWho on March 26, 2007, 05:00:20 PM
Quote
The period in question Brainiac, as in the one you claim to be currently working on. Pay closer attention or ask for help from one of your imaginary friends if need be, but stop wasting my time with your stupidity.
Whoa?..someone is testy and their professionalism is showing a bit?.. let me try to explain it again?? all the years are still open so data can still be added. If there is a zero in a specific position this indicates none has been found yet or none occurred. If there is a ?1? then this indicates one death has occurred and has been counted and so on?? we have totaled it to the right for each category and then totaled down for each type with grand totals at the very bottom of each year.
Hope this helps?. Try to relax
Post by: RobertBruce on March 26, 2007, 05:08:19 PM
Observe:
Quote
all the years are still open so data can still be added.
A reasonable and objective statement, youre willing to add new data as it comes to light even if it goes against your already reached conclusion, how professional of you . Oh...but wait.....
Quote
So none exist as I had indicated earlier?
Here you are claiming there are no deaths to be added.
Post by: TheWho on March 26, 2007, 05:20:18 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on March 26, 2007, 05:23:16 PM
You claimed there were no deaths to add to the list because none exist. No way around it.
Now again as I asked you before, what source are you using for deaths in the teen help industry?
Post by: TheWho on March 26, 2007, 05:39:15 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
It's cool Cindy really, youve put your foot in your mouth once again and now your trying to cover it up. It's fine, you dont have to get so excited and work so hard here, everyone knows you don't know what youre talking about.
You claimed there were no deaths to add to the list because none exist. No way around it.
Now again as I asked you before, what source are you using for deaths in the teen help industry?
Well, folks you have to admit I tried, my niece who is 8 years old can figure it out. As far as my sources of data?? there is a legend below the tables that have assisted many with that question, let know if you need help.
Bob, we have been discussing these numbers for months now and the whole time you had no idea what they meant nor where the data came from? You should have ask questions earlier on during the design phase of the matrix... you were involved in it if you remember and gave your input.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 26, 2007, 05:56:43 PM
Quote
Well, folks you have to admit I tried, my niece who is 8 years old can figure it out.
Cindy I told you it's fine. I've come to expect you to have to put your foot in your mouth at least once or twice a day, there's no reason to continue embarrassing you on this issue. You claimed there were no more deaths to add to the list and you shouldn't have. It's okay really, no one here thinks any less of you for being an idiot.
Quote
As far as my sources of data?? there is a legend below the tables that have assisted many with that question, let know if you need help.
Well the problem is you arent very specific in your legend. Let's take a look:
Quote
* - Data found here on fornits,
Fornits doesn't have a data set containing all the deaths having occured. So really youre just using what other people dig up for you.
Quote
internet news
Posted where? What news site?
Quote
articles,
What articles? Where did you find them?
Quote
posts
This is redundant, you've already mentioned fornits.
Quote
PM?s
Which ones? From who?
If youre going to try and present this data as fact you need to do a better job citing your sources. What youve got here could be from anything and is unacceptable.
Quote
Bob, we have been discussing these numbers for months now and the whole time you had no idea what they meant
Quite the contrary, I was just pointing out your contridiction. Your claiming now and on your table that the data set is still open, yet you claimed to me that there were no deaths to add. See,
Quote
So none exist as I had indicated earlier?
Perhaps you could ask your eight year old neice to help you keep track of what it is you say, that way you wouldnt have to constantly try and backpeddal on your own comments.
Quote
nor where the data came from?
Well early on I provided you with the numbers for the teen help industry, because youre too stupid and lazy to do it yourself. I'm curious as to where your numbers regarding those deaths is coming from now.
Quote
You should have ask questions earlier on during the design phase of the matrix... you were involved in it if you remember and gave your input.
I do recall, the difference being at the time I mistankely believed that you were interested in the truth about these places. It soon however became clear that you aren't Hence why I am no longer willing to help you. So my question to you remains what is the source for your numbers?
Post by: TheWho on March 26, 2007, 06:12:19 PM
Post by: TheWho on March 26, 2007, 07:10:31 PM
It appears from a Homicide point of view as well as others the therapeutic sector is proving to be an extremely safe environment, especially TBS and Wilderness.
We will be adding the 2004 -- 2005 shell hopfully this week and retrieve data from the NCES.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252194#252194 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252194#252194)
Post by: RobertBruce on March 26, 2007, 07:39:55 PM
Quote
Well then, I guess he told me.....
Clearly.
Quote
Ha,Ha, Ha.....
If you can't laugh at yourself who can you laugh at.
Quote
I think I can assume Bob doesnt like my numbers........
I am indifferent to your numbers because they are simply that your numbers. You repeat them over and over again in the hopes that someone will buy into them and tell you what an amazing job youve done. Until you build some credibility and start being honest no one is going to care and few will pay attention. I personally commented because I wanted to bring to light the fact that you were once again claiming your unfounded conjectures as facts.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 26, 2007, 07:48:10 PM
Quote
I'll see if we can clarify the "Legend" a little more for Bob...if there is a specific data point inwhich you would like clarification you can post it here or PM me...see updated legend.
You're citing information given on fornits, yet you yourself acknowledged that you have not read all the posts on fornits, nor is there a data set availible which lists off the deaths.
You also mention PM's-again from who?
and caica.org. Cindy a periphral glance through the death lists on caica proves that you either havent been there, or weren't paying attention when you were there. There are a number of deaths that fit your parameters and time tables that youve neglected to include. Proving one more time you are not in any way shape or form interested in the truth.
As to this.....
Quote
It appears from a Homicide point of view as well as others the therapeutic sector is proving to be an extremely safe environment, especially TBS and Wilderness.
Extremely safe environment? You're declaring these places to be safe and you havent even begun to examine the numbers regarding abuse. How then can you claim a place to be safe?
Or is it still your claim that only 1% of the kids in TBS's are ever abused.
Post by: TheWho on March 26, 2007, 08:02:05 PM
If someone needs clarification for specific data points we do have the back up information and I can provide the detail, but to present all of that up front would take away from the intent of the matrix and it would become unclear (think about an excel spread sheet filled with data) and serve no purpose.
The feed back I have received (except yours) has been positive and readers like the ease of reading, layout (after much iteration) and accuracy of the data. I don?t expect to please everyone and I do recognize your right to disagree with the methods used here and voice your opinions and I will try to incorporate your input where I can.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 26, 2007, 08:13:52 PM
But I digress- youve avoided the point concerning your data not agreeing with what you claim to be your source.
Can you explain this discrepancy?
What about you declaring TBS's to be safe without even looking at the abuse cases?
Post by: TheWho on March 26, 2007, 08:29:35 PM
Quote
What about you declaring TBS's to be safe without even looking at the abuse cases?
Bob, you run around criticizing everyone and all the work they do, Ha,Ha,?. Do me a favor, just for grins?? run a search of your posts, say the last 50 and look at what you contribute here?? take your time and read thru a few pages? you criticize every post you come across and you contribute nothing.
Why don?t you do a little work yourself if you think you have the answers?why don?t you step up and take a look at the abuse cases in TBS?s and see how they compare to other sectors. You seem to be interested enough go do it, don?t wait for me!!
Ha,Ha,? I really don?t expect you to, but I give it to you as a challenge to see if you can do the hard work and present it for others to see and take the criticism.
So take a look at the abuse cases and I can either incorporate it into my matrix and field the questions for you or you can present it yourself?let me know what works for you.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 26, 2007, 09:00:39 PM
Quote
Bob, you run around criticizing everyone and all the work they do, Ha,Ha,?. Do me a favor, just for grins?? run a search of your posts, say the last 50 and look at what you contribute here?? take your time and read thru a few pages? you criticize every post you come across and you contribute nothing.
Cindy (again) I unlike you remember what I post. I contribute plenty, at this moment its to highlight just how useless your "data" is. You seem to forget Ive done more to help these kids then you ever will. As to my criticsm, as of late its been geared towards you.
Quote
Why don?t you do a little work yourself if you think you have the answers?why don?t you step up and take a look at the abuse cases in TBS?s and see how they compare to other sectors. You seem to be interested enough go do it, don?t wait for me!!
Oh but Cindy you forget so quickly, I was willing to work and provide you with the names of the kids who were killed when I thought you were interested in presenting an honest perspective on these places, it's only when you let slip the fact that youve already made your concluscion and facts are irrellavent that I saw no point in doing anything to help you. After all its been established, my primary goal is to help these kids, yours is to hurt them. These two opposing ideologies cannot coincide.
Quote
Ha,Ha,? I really don?t expect you to, but I give it to you as a challenge to see if you can do the hard work and present it for others to see and take the criticism.
Oh I can Cindy, the information is already at hand. I just see no point in giving it to you since I already know you'll dismiss it. Again it was you who claimed without examing a single piece of evidence that only 1% of kids in TBS's are ever abused.
Quote
So take a look at the abuse cases and I can either incorporate it into my matrix and field the questions for you or you can present it yourself?let me know what works for you
To borrow your adage: I'm not going to do your homework for you. It's your table, its your claim, you back it up. If you arent willing to do so be prepared to have it ridiculed and dismissed.
Post by: Anonymous on March 26, 2007, 09:16:16 PM
Post by: TheWho on March 26, 2007, 09:24:19 PM
RobertBruce wrote:
Quote
Oh I can Cindy, the information is already at hand. I just see no point in giving it to you since I already know you'll dismiss it.
So you are afraid of people criticizing you? Or asking you for your sources? Or standing behind your data? Why? Why would anyone ask you to back up your clams? Is it wrong if people challenge your data?
You don?t have to give the data to me, Bob, just present it to the readers here on fornits, if you really have it. I believe you are a fake who just likes to criticize others and has nothing to offer himself?.you can ridicule my data if you like, I can take it?the question is can you put your data up for others to see and take a turn on the other end?
Put it up and let the people of fornits take a look at it............... Ha,Ha,Ha...just a cut and paste is all it takes !!!
Post by: hanzomon4 on March 26, 2007, 11:57:29 PM
That's not a question I want you to answer here or anywhere other then your own conscious.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 27, 2007, 12:36:35 AM
That and he doesnt have a conscience, hence why he sent his daughter off to two seperate kiddie prisons.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 27, 2007, 01:13:33 AM
Quote
So you are concerned with my numbers not covering the incidents of abuse in TBS?s
Concerned? No. Just taking the opportunity to point out how useless and incomplete your data is. I do this not only because I know it pisses you off but I want to make sure no parent waste anytime on you whatsoever.
Quote
and I ask you to collect and present some data and you respond:
RobertBruce wrote:
Quote:
Oh I can Cindy, the information is already at hand. I just see no point in giving it to you since I already know you'll dismiss it.
That's right Cindy, its your claim you back it up.
Quote
So you are afraid of people criticizing you?
No.
Quote
Or asking you for your sources?
No.
Quote
Or standing behind your data?
No.
Quote
Why? Why would anyone ask you to back up your clams?
Because they are rationale people who don't buy into things simply because "someone says so". They dont want to be like you who bought into the brochures of ASR and SUWS without learning all the facts first.
Quote
Is it wrong if people challenge your data?
Not at all, the thing you may want to learn about that is that I don't take my opinion or unfounded concluscions and claim them to be fact. Something you make a habit of and then become confused when people call you on it.
Quote
You don?t have to give the data to me,
That's nice of you, but I wasn't going to anyway.
Quote
Bob, just present it to the readers here on fornits, if you really have it.
I do. Tell me something though Cindy, why would I need to present data to people who already know the truth? You forget many of these people experienced this abuse first hand. Youre the one trying to convince them it didnt happen.
Quote
I believe you are a fake who just likes to criticize others and has nothing to offer himself
Youre of course entitled to your opinion, not that any one cares. Just keep in mind I asked you to cite for me something you had done to help these kids and you came up empty, I didn't.
Quote
?.you can ridicule my data if you like
Your permission is not neccesary but thank you.
Quote
I can take it
No you can't, that's why youre getting so upset now and trying (per your usual MO) to turn it around on me.
Quote
the question is can you put your data up for others to see and take a turn on the other end?
Yes I can, I just see no reason to do so now. Keep in mind Cindy, I was putting up data and citing sources when you were still paying someone to abuse your kid for you. Ive proven myself reliable time and again. Youve been here off and on for a year and youve yet to accomplish anything of substance.
Quote
Put it up and let the people of fornits take a look at it............... Ha,Ha,Ha...just a cut and paste is all it takes !!!
Cindy of all the many claims youve made how many do you think youve actually backed up? I'd be wlling to guess you could count the number of times on one hand. Now here you are trying to goad me into providing evidence to go against your own claim which you'll of course immediately dismiss? Sorry Cindy its your claim you back it up.
Post by: Anonymous on March 27, 2007, 01:30:58 AM
what is his last name?
i think people should know the name of the child toruture supporter
i have trouble beleviing he is a mere program parent. he is clearly a program player. he is just too manipulative and emotionally involved-yet distant
I suspect that posting here is part of his actual job.
anyone else suspect this?
He posts like a million times a day. How can a grwown man have time for this.
I mean it makes sense for someone who has been abused or connected to ending abuse but for someone who wants to establish suppsedly that yes many programs are abusive and all of us here have been abused but not all.programs are abusive. It seems too little efforst for too little gain . I personally know brainwashing exists but i dont post on the skeptics "brainwashing is a myth forum all the time. Clearly there are ulterior motives
Post by: Anonymous on March 27, 2007, 01:37:34 AM
Post by: TheWho on March 27, 2007, 02:07:15 AM
RobertBruce wrote:
Quote
Oh I can Cindy, the information is already at hand. I just see no point in giving it to you since I already know you'll dismiss it.
So you spend your time criticizing others when you are afraid to present your own data? What a coward......
Just paste it up and let the people of fornits take a look at it....... its easier than writing a 30 line response to cover your words..
Post by: RobertBruce on March 27, 2007, 02:07:09 PM
Quote
So you spend your time criticizing others when you are afraid to present your own data? What a coward......
Again Cindy, how many times have you been asked to back up a claim and youve refused?
You've yet to provide me with a reason for presenting the data since we both know you'll dismiss it out of hand. At this point you basically have to, otherwise youll again contridict yourself with your claim that less than 1% of all kids enrolled in TBS's being abused.
Besides you still seem to be missing the point, it's your claim, you back it up.
Your like a kid at the science fair who comes up with some ridiculus hypothesis, and when asked by his teacher to show his research responds with, "It's my hypothesis, but you back it up."
Post by: Anonymous on March 27, 2007, 02:09:19 PM
what is cindys last name?
is cindy a man or woman?
Where does he live? (just state)
What is cindys full involvement with the child torurue industry?
IS he paid to come here?
Or is he insane?
Post by: RobertBruce on March 27, 2007, 02:13:41 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on March 27, 2007, 02:15:41 PM
How can you claim TBS's to be safe since you have refused to even examine the data regarding kids being abused?
What are you using for your sources on deaths in the teen help industry since the sources you claim to use disagree with you?
Post by: TheWho on March 27, 2007, 02:48:29 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on March 27, 2007, 02:58:12 PM
Cindy also believes that only 1% of all kids ever enrolled in TBS's are ever abused and that they are all much much safer than public schools.
He enjoys making vauge statements that allow him a way to claim "what he meant to say" was entirely different from what he actually said. He learned this at the brainwashing seminar he reguarly attends. This was done to allow him to think he can alter his previous statements at will or escape from being pinned down and having to put his own foot in his mouth. Something he's forced to do at least twice a day.
He believes himself to be an expert on just about anything thats being discussed and because he runs a factory staffed by illegal immigrants he treats like shit he feels he can run things here as well.
He becomes confused and irate everytime this doesnt work out.
Post by: Deborah on March 27, 2007, 03:01:11 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Why does Robertbruce make fun of everyone ? Cant he show us his own numbers? That would be the easy way.
Short on allies, "guest"?
Post by: RobertBruce on March 27, 2007, 03:03:55 PM
Post by: TheWho on March 27, 2007, 04:06:10 PM
Could this be an indication that the reported occurrences of abuse inside TBS?s is a mere shadow of what he claims and releasing the data would support this conclusion?
Personally I think not releasing the information speaks volumes about the results.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 27, 2007, 04:08:25 PM
The data is not my own, if you want it run a search and post it yourself, after all it's your claim not mine.
Until you do your data is useless and incomplete.
Post by: TheWho on March 27, 2007, 04:16:43 PM
There appears to be some data coming in that we are looking at for the latest year so I will hold off on starting the new template......... I should be able to update the tables this evening whe I receive word.
It appears from a Homicide/Suicide point of view as well as others the therapeutic sector is proving to be an extremely safe environment, especially TBS and Wilderness.
We will be adding the 2004 -- 2005 shell hopfully this week and retrieve data from the NCES.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252222#252222 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252222#252222)
Post by: RobertBruce on March 27, 2007, 04:19:34 PM
Quote
It appears from a Homicide/Suicide point of view as well as others the therapeutic sector is proving to be an extremely safe environment, especially TBS and Wilderness.
Cindy how can you make this claim since you have yet to examine any data regarding abuse within the TBS and Wilderness environments?
Is it your claim that no abuse occurs?
What sources are you using for deaths within the specified arenas since the sources you cite do not agree with you?
Post by: TheWho on March 27, 2007, 04:26:58 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteIt appears from a Homicide/Suicide point of view as well as others the therapeutic sector is proving to be an extremely safe environment, especially TBS and Wilderness.
Cindy how can you make this claim since you have yet to examine any data regarding abuse within the TBS and Wilderness environments?
Is it your claim that no abuse occurs?
What sources are you using for deaths within the specified arenas since the sources you cite do not agree with you?
I'll answer all your questions as soon as you post your data on abuse within the industry....why dont you focus on that first, then we will talk.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 27, 2007, 04:29:17 PM
Youre claiming that the TBS's and Wilderness Camps are safe, the evidence already availible to you on Fornits suggest otherwise.
For once in your life back up your claim.
Or admit you can't. Either one is fine.
Post by: TheWho on March 27, 2007, 04:40:36 PM
RobertBruce wrote:
Quote
Oh I can Cindy, the information is already at hand. I just see no point in giving it to you since I already know you'll dismiss it.
So you spend your time criticizing others when you are afraid to present your own data?
Just paste it up and let the people of fornits take a look at it....... by not doing so is an indication the problem is minimal because you are sitting on it
Its your call, but until then you will have to answer your own questions. I am not going to assist you any longer.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 27, 2007, 04:49:46 PM
Quote
I am not asking you to do my work, I am doing it myself...what I am asking is to post the data you have, cut and paste is all it takes:
In other words do the work for you. Explain why I should, since we both know you don't give a shit about these kids and don't believe the vast majority of them are ever really abused.
Quote
So you spend your time criticizing others when you are afraid to present your own data?
Still not afraid Cindy, as I said earlier I've posted up a great deal of data on a variety of subjects. I simply see no point in doing your homework.
Quote
Just paste it up and let the people of fornits take a look at it....... by not doing so is an indication the problem is minimal because you are sitting on it
To you perhaps, but that's only because you've already reached your concluscion on the matter and have stated you arent interested in what the facts have to say. To others this isnt the case largely because of good percentage of the posters on fornits already know kids are abused in TBS's because theyve experienced it first hand. Something you cannot discount no matter how much you'd like to.
Quote
Its your call, but until then you will have to answer your own questions.
Why? They have to do with your data not mine. If you choose not to answer them your data remains useless and incomplete. Everytime you post it I'll be there to remind people of that fact.
Quote
I am not going to assist you any longer.
With what? It's your data and your claim Cindy, not mine. I'm just here to point out how unreliable it is to the people you hope and pray will find you credible.
Post by: TheWho on March 27, 2007, 04:58:11 PM
So lets put this in perspective...... Bob indicated he has data on the abuse inside the Therapeutic sector (a study, perhaps, he did here on fornits). I think it is curious that he is sitting on the results. If it proved to be damaging to the industry I believe it would have been posted the minute it was compiled. But we know it wasn?t and he refuses to release it.
Could this be an indication that the reported occurrences of abuse inside TBS?s is a mere shadow of what he claims and releasing the data would support this conclusion?
Personally I think not releasing the information speaks volumes about the results.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 27, 2007, 05:04:13 PM
The data is not my own, if you want it run a search and post it yourself, after all it's your claim not mine.
Until you do your data is useless and incomplete.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 27, 2007, 05:13:50 PM
Quote
I am guessing that long response was a no and an attempt to cover the fact you arent releasing the data you have......
Uhhh no Cindy I wasnt trying to cover anything, I've been pretty blatent about the fact that I'm not going to release the data to you. If you missed that then perhaps that would explain why youre so oblivious to everything else....say the truth about this industry.
Quote
If it proved to be damaging to the industry I believe it would have been posted the minute it was compiled But we know it wasn?t
How interesting. You know the data isnt damaging to the industry. How do you know Cindy? Have you seen some data yourself? If so please share it with us. If you don't it proves to be damaging to your claim, otherwise it would have been posted the minute it was complied.
Post by: TheWho on March 27, 2007, 06:13:50 PM
There appears to be some data coming in that we are looking at for the latest year so I will hold off on starting the new template......... I should be able to update the tables this evening whe I receive word.
It appears from a Homicide/Suicide point of view as well as others the therapeutic sector is proving to be an extremely safe environment, especially TBS and Wilderness.
We will be adding the 2004 -- 2005 shell hopfully this week and retrieve data from the NCES.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252235#252235 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252235#252235)
Post by: RobertBruce on March 27, 2007, 06:46:52 PM
Quote
I think we can be a little more confident that the abuse numbers are lower than we thought.
and you are basing this on.......?
Also when you say "we" do you mean you and the voices in your head or you and the posters of fornits. Because there is a huge difference is the original thought between the two.
You and your make believe world believe the numbers of kids abused to be less than 1% of all kids incarcertated in TBS's.
We as many regular posters on fornits believe the numbers to be much higher.
So which one of those two groups are you refering to?
If its the first are you now stating you believe the number of kids abused to be even less than already below 1% ?
If it's the second how can you speak for those people who havent commented on the matter at all?
You let me know Cupcake. In the mean time......
Quote
It appears from a Homicide/Suicide point of view as well as others the therapeutic sector is proving to be an extremely safe environment, especially TBS and Wilderness.
Cindy how can you make this claim since you have yet to examine any data regarding abuse within the TBS and Wilderness environments?
Is it your claim that no abuse occurs?
What sources are you using for deaths within the specified arenas since the sources you cite do not agree with you?
Post by: TheWho on March 27, 2007, 07:06:04 PM
So lets put this in perspective...... Bob indicated he has data on the abuse inside the Therapeutic sector (a study, perhaps, he did here on fornits). I think it is curious that he is sitting on the results. If it proved to be damaging to the industry I believe it would have been posted the minute it was compiled. But we know it wasn?t and he refuses to release it.
Could this be an indication that the reported occurrences of abuse inside TBS?s is a mere shadow of what he claims and releasing the data would support this conclusion?
Personally I think not releasing the information speaks volumes about the results.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 27, 2007, 07:19:01 PM
The data is not my own, if you want it run a search and post it yourself, after all it's your claim not mine.
Until you do your data is useless and incomplete.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 27, 2007, 07:20:17 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Kind of humoress so I thought I'd point it out.QuoteI am guessing that long response was a no and an attempt to cover the fact you arent releasing the data you have......
Uhhh no Cindy I wasnt trying to cover anything, I've been pretty blatent about the fact that I'm not going to release the data to you. If you missed that then perhaps that would explain why youre so oblivious to everything else....say the truth about this industry.QuoteIf it proved to be damaging to the industry I believe it would have been posted the minute it was compiled But we know it wasn?t
How interesting. You know the data isnt damaging to the industry. How do you know Cindy? Have you seen some data yourself? If so please share it with us. If you don't it proves to be damaging to your claim, otherwise it would have been posted the minute it was complied.
Post by: TheWho on March 27, 2007, 07:47:59 PM
There appears to be some data coming in that we are looking at for the latest year so I will hold off on starting the new template......... I should be able to update the tables this evening whe I receive word.
It appears from a Homicide/Suicide point of view as well as others the therapeutic sector is proving to be an extremely safe environment, especially TBS and Wilderness.
We will be adding the 2004 -- 2005 shell hopfully this week and retrieve data from the NCES.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252250#252250 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252250#252250)
Post by: RobertBruce on March 27, 2007, 08:23:34 PM
Quote
So now that we have Bob's abuse claims settled (or getting there, Ha,Ha,.. sorry everyone, I think I have a personal Troll,
Think of it more as someone who holds you accountable.
Quote
but he is serving his purpose by bringing light to the data, which is a good thing
My exposing your data as useless and incomplete is a good thing yes.
Quote
I think we can be a little more confident that the abuse numbers are lower than we thought .... I initially rough calculated that they were below 1%, but based on Bob's positioning we can safely assume they are a fraction of that or he wouldnt be sitting on his numbers this long.
Once again your speculation is sufficent to deem factual? No wonder youve been fired from so many jobs. At least now we have an actual addmission from you on your feelings regarding how many kids are abused, or in your case aren't abused. It appears not to matter to you that your claim is based on nothing.
Quote
Sam I wouldnt sweat the inconsitences between isaccorp and caica's list, if in doubt just add the name to the list.
Yes, imaginary friend Sam, inconsitences matter little to Cindy. His opinion is all that ever matters to him.
Quote
It appears from a Homicide/Suicide point of view as well as others the therapeutic sector is proving to be an extremely safe environment, especially TBS and Wilderness.
Cindy how can you make this claim since you have yet to examine any data regarding abuse within the TBS and Wilderness environments?
Is it your claim that no abuse occurs?
What sources are you using for deaths within the specified arenas since the sources you cite do not agree with you?
Post by: TheWho on March 27, 2007, 08:56:15 PM
put up or shut up...Ha,Ha,....
Post by: TheWho on March 27, 2007, 08:56:56 PM
There appears to be some data coming in that we are looking at for the latest year so I will hold off on starting the new template......... I should be able to update the tables this evening whe I receive word.
It appears from a Homicide/Suicide point of view as well as others the therapeutic sector is proving to be an extremely safe environment, especially TBS and Wilderness.
We will be adding the 2004 -- 2005 shell hopfully this week and retrieve data from the NCES.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: RobertBruce on March 27, 2007, 09:05:06 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 27, 2007, 11:37:36 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on March 27, 2007, 11:50:22 PM
Post by: TheWho on March 28, 2007, 06:08:19 PM
It appears from a Homicide/Suicide point of view as well as others the therapeutic sector is proving to be an extremely safe environment, especially TBS and Wilderness.
We will be adding the 2004 -- 2005 shell hopfully this week and retrieve data from the NCES.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252502#252502 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252502#252502)
...
Post by: RobertBruce on March 28, 2007, 06:11:18 PM
Post by: webdiva on March 28, 2007, 06:20:02 PM
Thanks much! :)
Kelly
Post by: RobertBruce on March 28, 2007, 06:27:18 PM
Post by: webdiva on March 28, 2007, 06:43:36 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Who are you talking to?
WHO ELSE? lol check my subject line! ;) not of this message but the original one... and sorry for the confusion but it's who's fault cuz it's who's name. lol
Post by: RobertBruce on March 28, 2007, 06:48:49 PM
Post by: webdiva on March 28, 2007, 06:53:45 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on March 28, 2007, 07:13:47 PM
Post by: webdiva on March 28, 2007, 07:23:52 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
ummmm....neat. I was more implying a reference to the 13th Century Scottish King
heheh sorry, actually i didn't think your name had anything to do with the Robert Bruce i know just found it interesting, doesn't take much to make me write posts that lack meaning and substance. lol although i had no idea what your name actually signified until now, so thanks! :rofl: :o
Post by: TheWho on March 28, 2007, 07:29:14 PM
Quote from: ""webdiva""
I know you got the PM i sent hours ago. Any chance you could go update your profile with an email address that works so we can stop getting bounces, since you keep subscribing to each thread you post? I've replaced your current email address w/ a temporary fornits one to stop getting bounce backs. If you have another email address please update it in your profile. If not let me know and we will turn your notifications OFF until you get a working email address.
Thanks much! :)
Kelly
Kelly -- my email address has been updated....tons of memory, you were right, thanks.
Post by: webdiva on March 28, 2007, 07:42:40 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Kelly -- my email address has been updated....tons of memory, you were right, thanks.
Awesome! :) Thanks! I may have removed you from a few topic watchs early on but i saved which ones they were so i'll add you back. Thanks again!
Post by: TheWho on March 29, 2007, 07:29:07 PM
It appears from a Homicide/Suicide point of view as well as others the therapeutic sector is proving to be an extremely safe environment, especially TBS and Wilderness.
We will be adding the 2004 -- 2005 shell hopfully this week and retrieve data from the NCES.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: RobertBruce on March 29, 2007, 07:50:19 PM
Also still wondering what your sources are for deaths in the respective venues since the sources you claim do not agree with your numbers.
Post by: TheWho on March 29, 2007, 08:29:19 PM
Quote
Still looking for an answer as to how you can claim TBS or Wilderness Camps to be safe since you have yet to examine any data regarding abuses.
Well we originally estimated it to be under 1% which is below the national level, and if you could blow these figures out of the water you would, with the figures you have, so we can safely assume the estimate is well below 1% since you are sitting on your information.
Quote
Also still wondering what your sources are for deaths in the respective venues since the sources you claim do not agree with your numbers.
Check the legend, if this doesn?t help and if you see a discrepancy let me know and we will investigate and update the matrix.
Post by: RobertBruce on March 29, 2007, 10:18:26 PM
Until you do your data is incomplete and useless.
Post by: TheWho on March 29, 2007, 10:46:56 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
No Cindy. It's your data and your claim, you do the work.
Until you do your data is incomplete and useless.
Which I am and have been, Bob, thanks. I will keep working at it and you can be my personal Troll Ha, Ha, Ha,... it keeps the thread near the top if anything else...better than a bump, as they say. Dont get discouraged, we will do this without you if you tire of the task....
Post by: RobertBruce on March 29, 2007, 10:56:45 PM
I look forward to seeing if "you" will do the work on your own. I doubt it as you havent done any researching regarding the teen help industry deaths on your own, nor have you ever bothered looking into the abuse issues.
As I said youre just too stupid and lazy. Until you do though youre data ever remains useless and incomplete.
Post by: TheWho on March 29, 2007, 11:09:20 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Still counting imaginary friends huh Cindy? Well I guess everyone has to have someone. Youre right though we should keep this at the top. That way any newcomers looking for information can find this and see how useless and incomplete your data is, along with seeing what an absolute idiot you are. After all we wouldn't want any parents who are searching for accurate and honest information wasting their time on you now would we. God knows theyd never get those things from you Cindy.
I look forward to seeing if "you" will do the work on your own. I doubt it as you havent done any researching regarding the teen help industry deaths on your own, nor have you ever bothered looking into the abuse issues.
As I said youre just too stupid and lazy. Until you do though youre data ever remains useless and incomplete.
Proof is in the matrix as they say....Ha,Ha, "what have you done lately?" Ha,Ha,Ha, Dont sweat it Bob, it will all work out for you eventually. We will find something for you to do to contribute besides trolling......
Post by: RobertBruce on March 29, 2007, 11:17:31 PM
Quote
Proof is in the matrix as they say....Ha,Ha
Thats why youve avoided the same questions over and over again for several pages. You havent proven anything. The only one who buys into it is you and your make believe friends.
Quote
Ha,Ha, "what have you done lately?" Ha,Ha,Ha
Today? I met with some clients, caught up on some paper work, ran some errands, went to the gym, and put you to shame. What have you been up to?
Quote
Dont sweat it Bob, it will all work out for you eventually.
Cindy it already has, no one else is paying attention to your nonsense, no one believes you. Everyone can see the holes in your data and passes right over it. I only bring to light the further fallacies in your logic because I find it funny to watch you fluster and scramble, doing anything you can to avoid the fact that youre wrong.
Quote
We will find something for you to do to contribute besides trolling......
Cindy Cindy Cindy. What you call trolling is contributing, on top of everything else Ive done on here Ive saved any newcomers loads of time they might have otherwise wasted on you.
Post by: TheWho on March 29, 2007, 11:21:14 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on March 29, 2007, 11:28:58 PM
Post by: TheWho on March 30, 2007, 11:10:21 PM
Quote
There are already people looking into AEG's practices
Post by: TheWho on March 30, 2007, 11:11:19 PM
Post by: Anonymous on March 30, 2007, 11:13:30 PM
Post by: TheWho on April 02, 2007, 01:34:59 PM
Effective May 1, 2007, all programs applying for membership in NATSAP (http://http://www.natsap.org/) must meet the following requirements:
1. Licensure by the appropriate state agency authorized to set and oversee standards of therapeutic and/or behavioral healthcare for youth and adolescents or accreditation by a mental health accreditation agency.
2. Therapeutic services with oversight by a qualified clinician.
3. Compliance with NATSAP Ethical Principles and NATSAP Principles of Good Practice (see www.natsap.org (http://www.natsap.org)).
We believe this will further raise the bar and makes another step in many towards a continuous process of improvement in the industry.
Parents who are considering a TBS or wilderness program should add
NATSAP (http://http://www.natsap.org/) to their list of research stops.
Post by: Deborah on April 02, 2007, 05:14:15 PM
Or is that an indirect admittance of having involvement with NATSAP?
Post by: RobertBruce on April 02, 2007, 05:32:58 PM
What more can we expect from a guy who states:
Quote
and the results have shown it to be a very safe place for kids who are at risk.
with absolutely no facts to base it on.
Post by: TheWho on April 02, 2007, 05:56:58 PM
Quote
with absolutely no facts to base it on.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252502#252502 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252502#252502)
who
Post by: RobertBruce on April 02, 2007, 06:50:06 PM
Post by: TheWho on April 06, 2007, 09:41:05 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Who's "we"? Got a frog in your pocket?
Or is that an indirect admittance of having involvement with NATSAP?
The we, I referred to, are the people who have been contributing to building the matrix.
No, I dont have any personal affiliation to NATSAP.
Post by: RobertBruce on April 07, 2007, 05:55:21 PM
Quote
I will fully acknowledge that some stories probably arent real, and some are embellished but many more are not. Most are true. Do you have a basis for claiming otherwise?”
I made it during a private dicussion with Cindy, I intended it as nothing more then mere speculation, however if it is perceived as more than that I apologize. In retrospect I recognize that no child would ever have need to lie about being abused in a TBS since they all abuse children and the truth is horrific enough.
Again I am very sorry to anyone I may have offended, I have never doubted a single claim nor have I ever dismissed an accusation of abuse.
Post by: TheWho on April 12, 2007, 10:12:00 AM
• --- “Maturity is a bitter disappointment for which no remedy exists, unless laughter can be said to remedy anything. “
..
Post by: Troll Control on April 12, 2007, 11:28:03 AM
Post by: Troll Control on April 18, 2007, 02:01:14 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteNow, let's examine this, Who: Let's say, for argument's sake that a kid's very own counselor sexually abuses him/her. ASR's plan, as you verified with them like I did, is to have that child report the abuse directly to the person that perpetrated it.
This is downright scary and paves the road for child abuse. I would avoid this facility at all costs. It's dangerous!
"Sure, DJ, of course it is possible. The guy on the abuse hot line could talk dirty to the kids also..."
This gem had to be posted in his own thread for time imemorial! WOW! :o
I just wonder how this guy lives with himself...
Post by: TheWho on April 18, 2007, 02:07:41 PM
DJ wasnt happy with this ruling.
Post by: Troll Control on April 18, 2007, 02:14:58 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Just when you think someone has sunk to lowest level humanly possible, you get this:Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteNow, let's examine this, Who: Let's say, for argument's sake that a kid's very own counselor sexually abuses him/her. ASR's plan, as you verified with them like I did, is to have that child report the abuse directly to the person that perpetrated it.
This is downright scary and paves the road for child abuse. I would avoid this facility at all costs. It's dangerous!
"Sure, DJ, of course it is possible. The guy on the abuse hot line could talk dirty to the kids also..."
:oops: ::eek3:: ::jawdrop:: ::noway:: :flame: ::puke::
Unbelievable!
This gem had to be posted in his own thread for time imemorial! WOW! :o
I just wonder how this guy lives with himself...
Post by: RobertBruce on April 18, 2007, 02:24:23 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Oh, no I think I made some DJ mad again. This is a result of a final determination that ASR isnt required "under law" to have a hot line placed in the school.
DJ wasnt happy with this ruling.
ASR is a TBS, no question about it. You yourself acknowledged that TBS's are subject to the law. So it appears they are in violation.
Post by: Troll Control on April 18, 2007, 07:41:42 PM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
OK, folks, let's break it down Barney style for everyone again...
First this:Quote from: ""TheWho"""I have been there I know there are offices and phones everywhere if kids needed help."
Then this:Quote from: ""TheWho"""The restricted phone access is there for a reason and part of that reason is to keep the kids safe."
Next this:Quote from: ""TheWho"""Okay, lets get the details of the law...see how ASR sizes up against what the state defines as requirements."
Then shown that this has already been done by the state:Quote"OCCS also cited the school for monitoring students' telephone calls and mail. The agency said that the right to privacy in communications, even for juveniles, can be restricted only by court order -- for example, if a therapist believes that the teen's communication should be monitored, perhaps to support a young person through a crisis in relations with his orher family -- and then only temporarily."
Finally, in the face of incontrovertible evidence in the form of a previous citation for the exact same offense, this:
Quote from: ""TheWho"""ASR is presently meeting all their obligations as far as the law goes, I think we have established that."
Anybody else sense a little "disconnect" here? A credibility gap, or chasm, as it were?
"Oh what a tangled web we weave when at first we practice to deceive."
Shame on you, Who, for intentionally misleading readers about the truth! It's bad enough that ASR lies to parents, they don't need you adding to the lies.
This guy is just a flat-out liar. Plain and simple. In his own words...
Post by: TheWho on April 18, 2007, 08:08:01 PM
I think today has been productive, we established after many pages that ASR meets the existing requirements of the laws of Massachusetts. If anyone states otherwise ask to see the law or a link, or just talk to the school. There has been alot of deception going on today. Ha,Ha,Ha... but it has been fun.
As always, Dont just believe myself or others here. Do your homework , talk to the school/schools . Get comfortable that you are making the right choice in keeping your child safe.
Who
Post by: RobertBruce on April 18, 2007, 08:29:49 PM
Quote
ASR meets the existing requirements of the laws of Massachusetts
My God, he really is that dumb.
Keep telling yourself whatever you like Cindy, the rest of us are going to be doing what needs to be done to force ASR to stop breaking the law and violating these kids rights.
Post by: Anonymous on April 18, 2007, 08:44:56 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 18, 2007, 09:36:12 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 18, 2007, 09:39:30 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209[/url]
Post by: TheWho on April 18, 2007, 09:42:29 PM
Post by: Nihilanthic on April 18, 2007, 10:32:50 PM
Holy shit.
ITS GONE ON ENOUGH. SOMEONE FUCKING LOCK THIS THREAD.
Post by: TheWho on April 18, 2007, 11:08:10 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
It does seem a little unbelieveable or at the very least incredable ! It is definitely different.
I like it !
Post by: TheWho on April 18, 2007, 11:13:59 PM
Post by: TheWho on April 18, 2007, 11:35:56 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
237 pages.
Holy shit.
ITS GONE ON ENOUGH. SOMEONE FUCKING LOCK THIS THREAD.
Once it hits 250 pages I heard the momentum is too great to stop it. We need to slow this train down. Lets keep the posts meaningful, short and sweet.
Who started this thread, anyway?
Post by: Troll Control on April 19, 2007, 09:11:52 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Why did TheWho take the time to copy/past this post and take the time to bold each individual item and then add his own mean spirited comments? What would possess someone to take the time to skim through a survivor story, copy paste it then bold some fo the disgusting acts, and then laugh at it? What kind of person does things like this?
He stole this list from a post in this thread
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
I think he gets off on it. That he's really sick.
Look at why he says kids should not be allowed to use an abuse hotline at ASR:
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Just when you think someone has sunk to lowest level humanly possible, you get this:Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteNow, let's examine this, Who: Let's say, for argument's sake that a kid's very own counselor sexually abuses him/her. ASR's plan, as you verified with them like I did, is to have that child report the abuse directly to the person that perpetrated it.
This is downright scary and paves the road for child abuse. I would avoid this facility at all costs. It's dangerous!
"Sure, DJ, of course it is possible. The guy on the abuse hot line could talk dirty to the kids also..."
This is a person that's "not all there"...
Post by: Troll Control on April 24, 2007, 12:40:49 PM
Any reader can see that this is very childish and that TheWho can't be believed, as he's been caught out there too many times simply lying about what can be proven to be true.
Quote from: ""Guest""
Case in point. TheWho caught out there again editing his posts to make it appear that he didn't say something that he did... Pretty sad...Quote from: ""Guest""I repeated my post because you buried it by responding with identical posts, one from your username which you went back and edited afterwards and one anonymously. You posted originally at 9:46am and edited your post 3 times with the last at 11:36am, right after you claimed that you didn't repeat yourself. So save your baby-games for someone else.
The proof:Quote from: ""TheWho""Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:46 am
I dont think this shows parents seek to have their local school districts place kids at ASR. It is just too expensive for one thing, but since I was asked not to opine I will ask if any of the "Guests" out there could answer this one.
Last edited by TheWho on Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:36 am; edited 3 times in total
Look, I've read your "work" here and I can see your M.O. is to distract from the conversation and to take jabs at people who point out your behavior and then to edit your posts to try to cover up your own behavior when called out. I'm not trying to play games with you and I don't need your snide remarks or to watch you edit posts retroactively to try to make yourself look better.
If you want to play games like this and act like a child, copy my post into your own thread (a disaster area) and make your commentary there. Have at it. But don't insult people's intelligence when anyone can see you edit your posts to try to cover up your cildish commentary and behavior.
This pretty much sums up theWho's career on Fornits. It's sad that an adult would behave this way, but there it is again...
Post by: TheWho on April 24, 2007, 12:53:06 PM
Good, It seems I got your attention, then. If you want to engage in adult conversation and debate try being polite and accepting of all peoples opinions. If you want to exclude people who may not agree with you start a new topic over in “Facilities questions and answers” I will not be responding over in that forum.
And just for the record I have read your work here also, you may log in if you like or stay anonymous as a guest; it really doesn’t matter to me.
As for your question, it is hypothetical, because you have not yet established that ASR accepts public funding. Why waste peoples time and research when it may not apply? Your link was to a family that was trying to get their town to pay for ASR. The town turned them down. Try to establish your premise first.
Thewho guest
Post by: Anonymous on April 24, 2007, 03:15:28 PM
Post by: Troll Control on April 25, 2007, 10:12:04 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
After “Thewho” was continuously harassed once again by a moderator from another forum and threatened to have his posts deleted, he responded:
Good, It seems I got your attention, then. If you want to engage in adult conversation and debate try being polite and accepting of all peoples opinions. If you want to exclude people who may not agree with you start a new topic over in “Facilities questions and answers” I will not be responding over in that forum.
And just for the record I have read your work here also, you may log in if you like or stay anonymous as a guest; it really doesn’t matter to me.
As for your question, it is hypothetical, because you have not yet established that ASR accepts public funding. Why waste peoples time and research when it may not apply? Your link was to a family that was trying to get their town to pay for ASR. The town turned them down. Try to establish your premise first.
Thewho guest
No surprise here that this is another lie. The truth is that I asked specifically for a response from someone other than TheWho. unable to control himself, he responded multiple times with the same posting. I then asked that he not spam with repetition or I would ask the moderator to remove the repeats.
One, I am not a moderator of any forum and never have been, and two, it was TheWho that was harassing me with snide, untrue remarks like an immature child. See the post below that shows TheWho is, once again, lying.
Quote from: ""Guest""
I specifically asked for information from someone other than TheWho.
Are there any credible posters who can weigh in on this subject?
I'm looking for laws that apply to ASR because they take public funds for kids. How does this change the way they have to operate under law?
Thanks.
*Please don't troll up the thread by spamming with repetitive posts or I will ask the mods to remove them. Thanks again.
No surprise that TheWho is having problems with telling the truth again and that he's trying to blame the moderators for something they were not involved with.
Nobody should put any value on what he has to say until he can learn to be honest about the trivial things. He sure as hell can't be honest about serious issues if he can't be honest about little things like this...
Post by: TheWho on April 25, 2007, 01:19:49 PM
Post by: TheWho on April 26, 2007, 08:59:45 PM
Okay lets get back to it… just like when you said they had no licensed counselors…tsk tsk tsk…I had to provide the proof... you always make me do all the work, Ha,Ha,Ha, … we don’t hear those claims anymore do we, wonder why?
Okay, lets take a look at your list again:
Quote
1.ASR is classified by the state. They are classified as a "Special Education School".
Yes but they meet all the requirements as laid down by the state.
Here call: Department of Education's Program Quality Assurance Services Unit (781) 338-3700
“Approval of Public and Private Day and Residential Special Education School Programs
(1) Approval from the Department. The Department may grant approval to public and private day and residential schools providing special education services (special education schools) in Massachusetts in order to ensure that a continuum of special education programs is available to Massachusetts students with disabilities. Approval shall be granted by the Department in accordance with the provisions of 603 CMR 28.09. Upon receipt of approval special education schools are eligible to enroll publicly funded Massachusetts eligible students.
ASR never applied for this status and therefore the laws and regulations beyond this do not apply. So they are classified, by the state, as a Special ed school. But never sought approval in order to receive public funding because they want to stay private. Call the number above.
Quote
2. ASR does not employ any licensed teachers nor any special educators, so they remain "unapproved" by the state.
Big one… ASR employees licensed teachers !! oh no, what do we do now?
Check it out for yourselves, there is a phone number you can call:
http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/home.asp?m ... t=2&o=2588 (http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/home.asp?mode=o&ot=2&o=2588)
Quote
3. ASR does not appear in the Mohawk Trails Regional School District's comprehensive review for 2007 which indicates their "partnership" with the district has ended in 2007.
no, just means they haven’t talk about it yet , nice try though….
Quote
4. ASR remains unaccredited and is legally barred by the state from issuing state sanctioned diplomas.
Wrong again……ASR hands out diplomas via the laws of the state of Massachusetts. Check it out they are a school:
http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/search.asp ... e&town=114 (http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/search.asp?mode=g&county=Hampshire&town=114)
So the only thing that remains is how to define ASR. We all know they are a Therapeutic Boarding school (TBS). But how should the state handle this?
---Should they continue to classify them as a “Special education school” with special status (Hybrid)?
---Should they define requirements specific to TBS’s?
---Should they allow them to operate the way they have been for the past decade (considering there are no complaints from the students or parents)?
Post by: Nihilanthic on April 27, 2007, 12:27:39 AM
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
Post by: nimdA on April 27, 2007, 12:32:19 AM
Have a happy fuck you.
Post by: Troll Control on April 27, 2007, 01:04:18 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteI have an annoying idiot neighbor...
So does your neighbor. Concidence? I think not... :D :D :D :wink:
Anyway, this is precisely the vision I had of you that you just confirmed. Funny I had you pegged exactly this way, too..
People out at the pool, having fun, doing things together while you sit huddled in front of the computer, curtains drawn, responding compulsively to a message board populted largely by abused children, typing furiously until your fingers bleed while your stuck-up, materialistic bitch of a wife nags "Can't you pay someone for that?"
Dang. That's priceless. Priceless.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: TheWho on April 29, 2007, 12:28:53 PM
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: TheWho on April 29, 2007, 12:29:51 PM
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articl ... ayer_dies/ (http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/04/29/medway_high_lacrosse_player_dies/)
William J., 14, an eighth-grader at St. Sebastian's School in Needham, collapsed Tuesday while practicing lacrosse on a school field and was pronounced dead at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical in Needham.
Nick S., who would have turned 16 on Friday, was practicing on the high school football field at about 8:40 a.m. when he suffered an apparent seizure, police said. Paramedics transported him to Milford Regional Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead about 9:30 a.m. The cause of death was unknown.
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2007, 01:14:33 PM
Quote
Schools 10 miles apart, within the same week. April 28, 2007 in one small part of the world, 2 kids die playing the same game, Lacrosse……….. imagine how many kids are dieing around the world each day of strokes and heart attacks, etc.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articl ... ayer_dies/ (http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/04/29/medway_high_lacrosse_player_dies/)
William J., 14, an eighth-grader at St. Sebastian's School in Needham, collapsed Tuesday while practicing lacrosse on a school field and was pronounced dead at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical in Needham.
Nick S., who would have turned 16 on Friday, was practicing on the high school football field at about 8:40 a.m. when he suffered an apparent seizure, police said. Paramedics transported him to Milford Regional Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead about 9:30 a.m. The cause of death was unknown.
Sonofabitch!
If only you idiots had listened to TheWho and convinced these boys parents to lock them up they'd be alive today.
Well as they say, their blood is on your hands, ha, ha, ha.
Post by: TheWho on April 29, 2007, 01:18:01 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
QuoteSchools 10 miles apart, within the same week. April 28, 2007 in one small part of the world, 2 kids die playing the same game, Lacrosse……….. imagine how many kids are dieing around the world each day of strokes and heart attacks, etc.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articl ... ayer_dies/ (http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/04/29/medway_high_lacrosse_player_dies/)
William J., 14, an eighth-grader at St. Sebastian's School in Needham, collapsed Tuesday while practicing lacrosse on a school field and was pronounced dead at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical in Needham.
Nick S., who would have turned 16 on Friday, was practicing on the high school football field at about 8:40 a.m. when he suffered an apparent seizure, police said. Paramedics transported him to Milford Regional Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead about 9:30 a.m. The cause of death was unknown.
Sonofabitch!
If only you idiots had listened to TheWho and convinced these boys parents to lock them up they'd be alive today.
Well as they say, their blood is on your hands, ha, ha, ha.
I think it was in response to some kids who died in wilderness. He is showing that it happens all over, not just in programs
Post by: Troll Control on April 29, 2007, 04:38:59 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteI have an annoying idiot neighbor...
So does your neighbor. Concidence? I think not... :D :D :D :wink:
Anyway, this is precisely the vision I had of you that you just confirmed. Funny I had you pegged exactly this way, too..
People out at the pool, having fun, doing things together while you sit huddled in front of the computer, curtains drawn, responding compulsively to a message board populted largely by abused children, typing furiously until your fingers bleed while your stuck-up, materialistic bitch of a wife nags "Can't you pay someone for that?"
Dang. That's priceless. Priceless.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Ha, ha, ha... Hoo-boy!
Post by: Troll Control on April 29, 2007, 04:42:56 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
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i was wondering where this portrait of thewho went. he looks drunk!
Post by: TheWho on April 29, 2007, 04:53:41 PM
What a waste of space.....
..
Post by: Troll Control on April 29, 2007, 05:03:16 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
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i was wondering where this portrait of thewho went. he looks drunk!
welcome to the matrix!
Post by: RobertBruce on April 29, 2007, 05:21:35 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Well I guess we can see that disagreeing with "Dysfunction Junction", gets him riled up a bit, but when you prove him wrong...Whoa... he becomes a Raging mad Troll and forgets to log in, tsk,tsk,tsk....
What a waste of space.....
..
Cindy youve never proven him wrong on anything. Nor anyone else for that matter. Ever. There are however numerous examples of you being proven wrong and then refusing to acknowledge it due to the fact that youre a coward and an idiot. So if you want to discuss who's been proven wrong by whom, just let me know okay princess?
Till then:
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Post by: TheWho on April 29, 2007, 05:32:46 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on April 29, 2007, 05:40:39 PM
No its already been deemed you on one of your many many drinking binges.
Not my idea, but I still find it funny.
Post by: Troll Control on April 29, 2007, 05:49:30 PM
anonWho
Post by: Troll Control on April 29, 2007, 05:54:44 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
My Daughter did a tremendous amount of work, came very far…to make a long story short, when she came home she went back to her old group of friends and quickly tired of me because she had grown and matured and I did not. She stopped speaking to me, we have always never had open communication.
:D :D :D :D :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: TheWho on April 29, 2007, 06:08:07 PM
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Troll Control on April 29, 2007, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
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i was wondering where this portrait of thewho went. he looks drunk!
welcome to the matrix!
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""??????????._????---~~~---,?_
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i was wondering where this portrait of thewho went. he looks drunk!
welcome to the matrix!
Post by: TheWho on April 29, 2007, 06:46:41 PM
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2007, 06:47:45 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
Post by: Troll Control on April 29, 2007, 06:51:07 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
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i was wondering where this portrait of thewho went. he looks drunk!
welcome to the matrix!
Post by: Nihilanthic on April 29, 2007, 06:55:19 PM
Silly... THAT's how you do it
(Big ben removed due to complaints)
Post by: TheWho on April 29, 2007, 07:04:37 PM
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Troll Control on April 29, 2007, 07:08:45 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Guest""http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=21273
yeah, liars shouldn't be calling people liars! site admin already verified that your posts weren't deleted by deborah. sorry, but it's not true.
if you want to argue about that false accusation, do it in the web hosting forum where you can be addressed by the admin.
just to be clear:Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""Guest""This is the last refuge for someone caught blatantly lying so many times that he has no other excuse but "They altered my posts!" What a LOSER.
:rofl:
That's about the size of it. He hasn't a leg to stand on in an honest debate, so he resorts to attacks and false allegations. I could provide links to many posts that I would've loved to dump. They're still there.
The only one 'editing' Who's posts is Who. Remember the one in which he stated his daughter split and didn't talk to him for 2 years. He apparently forgot he posted that back when he was anon- before he picked a user name. When I linked to it, he promptly deleted it.
Wah, wah, wah. :cry2:
she says she never deleted any of your posts, but you did delete the one in which you admitted your daughter stopped talking to you.
so you're saying she's a liar then?
I am not going to even attempt to fight Fornits on this. I have no way of proving any of it (Deleted or altered posts). There are only 2 people who know the truth. I never made an issue of it until recently and then only brought it up once.
I only asked for it to stop and that my posts be left unaltered.
no, it's you that edits your posts after you've been caught in lies.
here's just one example where you went back and edited five months later. you're just not believable.
Post by: TheWho on April 29, 2007, 07:24:12 PM
This doesn’t happen often, only if you are in a heated debate and you prove the other person wrong. They typically will not tip their hat and concede but rather will resort to personal attacks or in extreme cases alter or delete one of your posts and then use it against you.
Just be conscience that if you do chose a log-in name and are not in line with the “group think” you run the risk of this.
Post by: Troll Control on April 29, 2007, 07:38:42 PM
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i was wondering where this portrait of thewho went. he looks drunk!
welcome to the matrix!
Post by: Troll Control on April 29, 2007, 07:48:13 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
here are some of thewho's posts back when he was anon and then agreed to have the admin link all his posts to his username. looks like he forgot to edit these ones where he's baiting someone in the hyde forum and lying about his name, etc. all while he was comfortable that he wa anon. tells a lot about this man...Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteOkay -- you first, name, address, phone number and Social security number. Thanks Ed Davis
On 2005-12-06 14:18:00, Ed Davis wrote:
"My name is Ed Davis and I graduated from Hyde in 1990. The character development program at Hyde helped me to discover COURAGE! The courage to stand behind what I say and believe. Obviously, all of you anonymous posters could use a little character development especially in the COURAGE department. Therefore, I challenge all of you to dig deep inside and reveal yourself! Say what you believe, it's a free country, but have some pride and stop being a bunch of cowards. So be heard or go away and stop breathing up all the good air!
Ed Davis [email protected]
By the way, Hyde did not pay me to write this I just felt like somebody should tell you fleas to put up or shut up!
Have a nice day! :smile:
Ed[ This Message was edited by: Ed Davis on 2005-12-06 14:27 ][ This Message was edited by: Ed Davis on 2005-12-06 14:28 ]"
My name is Albert Nelson Of Newhope, you can call me ANON
:D busted again! quoted for prosperity lying again!
then this :exclaim:Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteYea you are right,Ed, I'm sorry, I am going to go back on self study and write about what made me say those things and do some self reflecting. I will then look you up in the directory and try to imagine myself turning out as well as you have. I just hope I can harden to the point where I can say "Get a life !! Punk!! just like Clint Eastwood. Only I think I will follow it up with "Do you feel lucky" (to have graduated from Hyde), "Well do you punk!!!" Wow I do feel good, and I feel superior to everyone else who has logged on, I will not only post my name, but also a picture of my whole family, that will show everyone that I am more open then they are.
On 2005-12-06 15:16:00, Ed Davis wrote:
"As I expected, these anonymous posts are written by current Hyde students, trying to convince their parents that Hyde is a bad place and that they should be at home. Only a child would write such garbage. Get a life! Punk! You should probably go back to study hall and finish your homework! You still unregistered anonymous user. By the way my contact information is in the alumni directory.
Ed[ This Message was edited by: Ed Davis on 2005-12-06 15:36 ]"
Thanks Ed
ANON
caught again!
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2007, 07:50:25 PM
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
Post by: nimdA on April 29, 2007, 08:07:40 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
Post by: TheWho on April 29, 2007, 08:27:16 PM
Post by: TheWho on April 29, 2007, 08:32:40 PM
(http://http://www.nndb.com/people/737/000024665/___ZappaCal.jpg)
Post by: Troll Control on April 30, 2007, 10:20:40 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""here are some of thewho's posts back when he was anon and then agreed to have the admin link all his posts to his username. looks like he forgot to edit these ones where he's baiting someone in the hyde forum and lying about his name, etc. all while he was comfortable that he wa anon. tells a lot about this man...Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteOkay -- you first, name, address, phone number and Social security number. Thanks Ed Davis
On 2005-12-06 14:18:00, Ed Davis wrote:
"My name is Ed Davis and I graduated from Hyde in 1990. The character development program at Hyde helped me to discover COURAGE! The courage to stand behind what I say and believe. Obviously, all of you anonymous posters could use a little character development especially in the COURAGE department. Therefore, I challenge all of you to dig deep inside and reveal yourself! Say what you believe, it's a free country, but have some pride and stop being a bunch of cowards. So be heard or go away and stop breathing up all the good air!
Ed Davis [email protected]
By the way, Hyde did not pay me to write this I just felt like somebody should tell you fleas to put up or shut up!
Have a nice day! :smile:
Ed[ This Message was edited by: Ed Davis on 2005-12-06 14:27 ][ This Message was edited by: Ed Davis on 2005-12-06 14:28 ]"
My name is Albert Nelson Of Newhope, you can call me ANON
:D busted again! quoted for prosperity lying again!
then this :exclaim:Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteYea you are right,Ed, I'm sorry, I am going to go back on self study and write about what made me say those things and do some self reflecting. I will then look you up in the directory and try to imagine myself turning out as well as you have. I just hope I can harden to the point where I can say "Get a life !! Punk!! just like Clint Eastwood. Only I think I will follow it up with "Do you feel lucky" (to have graduated from Hyde), "Well do you punk!!!" Wow I do feel good, and I feel superior to everyone else who has logged on, I will not only post my name, but also a picture of my whole family, that will show everyone that I am more open then they are.
On 2005-12-06 15:16:00, Ed Davis wrote:
"As I expected, these anonymous posts are written by current Hyde students, trying to convince their parents that Hyde is a bad place and that they should be at home. Only a child would write such garbage. Get a life! Punk! You should probably go back to study hall and finish your homework! You still unregistered anonymous user. By the way my contact information is in the alumni directory.
Ed[ This Message was edited by: Ed Davis on 2005-12-06 15:36 ]"
Thanks Ed
ANON
caught again!
Post by: TheWho on April 30, 2007, 10:27:51 AM
Albert Nelson
Post by: Troll Control on April 30, 2007, 10:34:20 AM
Why were you posing as a Hyde student?
Post by: TheWho on April 30, 2007, 10:44:41 AM
Post by: Troll Control on April 30, 2007, 10:47:28 AM
Post by: TheWho on April 30, 2007, 10:52:15 AM
Post by: Troll Control on April 30, 2007, 11:15:26 AM
Why did you pose as a Hyde student?
Post by: TheWho on April 30, 2007, 11:19:50 AM
Post by: Troll Control on April 30, 2007, 11:34:45 AM
Post by: TheWho on April 30, 2007, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Yes, I think it does. It has proven again that you'll say anything to avoid responsibility for changing your posts, posing as others and lying about almost everything you say. Thanks.
Coming from you, DJ, I'll have to say thank you... and your welcome.
Post by: RobertBruce on April 30, 2007, 12:12:35 PM
Come on Cindy, why did you pose as a Hyde student?
While you're evading that, tell me what's it like for you having never been a man about anything? Your entire life spent being a coward, hiding behind your daddy, throwing money at every problem.
How do justify your life in your mind?
You do realize you being incapable of ever being a man is the reason your wife cheats on you so much.
Post by: TheWho on April 30, 2007, 01:03:50 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Cindy are you really such a coward that you can't answer a simple question?
Come on Cindy, why did you pose as a Hyde student?
While you're evading that, tell me what's it like for you having never been a man about anything? Your entire life spent being a coward, hiding behind your daddy, throwing money at every problem.
How do justify your life in your mind?
Oh, Here comes the personal insults and the sharp stick...poke..poke..poke
Quote
You do realize you being incapable of ever being a man is the reason your wife cheats on you so much.
This one was my favorites..... I think Devon took this last one out of the Professional Debaters Manual, it works every time...Ha,Ha,Ha,…
Post by: RobertBruce on April 30, 2007, 01:12:31 PM
Your wife sleeps around on you because you can't be the man she needs.
You really cant blame her can you? I'm sure she thinks of you as a great friend though. So at least your relationship with her is better than the one you have with your (?) daughter.
Maybe its not to late to turn it all around though. Be a man for once in your life and own up to your own actions.
Why did you pretend to be Hyde student?
Post by: Anonymous on April 30, 2007, 01:16:56 PM
Yep, the WHO IS PITIFUL. That's why he posts her constantly: no one in real life to talk to; and it bothers him not that he is revealed to be the liar that he is.
Post by: TheWho on April 30, 2007, 03:49:30 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
THE WHO is a pitiful person. A wife who cheats on him and a daughter who can't stand him? He must have some of DADDY'S MONEY. Now it makes a "little bit of sense" why the wife and daughter hang around---he's a check-book to them?
Yep, the WHO IS PITIFUL. That's why he posts her constantly: no one in real life to talk to; and it bothers him not that he is revealed to be the liar that he is.
O whoa is me........
Post by: Troll Control on April 30, 2007, 06:04:05 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
THE WHO is a pitiful person. A wife who cheats on him and a daughter who can't stand him? He must have some of DADDY'S MONEY. Now it makes a "little bit of sense" why the wife and daughter hang around---he's a check-book to them?
Yep, the WHO IS PITIFUL. That's why he posts her constantly: no one in real life to talk to; and it bothers him not that he is revealed to be the liar that he is.
No problem. We're going to link all of his anon posts together to bring some clarity to his thinking and posting. He already told the admin to do it, that he has "nothing to hide," so it will just be a few days until everything becomes crystal clear.
Post by: Anonymous on April 30, 2007, 06:24:02 PM
Post by: Troll Control on May 01, 2007, 10:34:37 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
its been clear for about 50000 posts now..
If you think it's clear now, just wait until those anon posts are linked to his username. You won't BELIEVE the trolling, posing, false information, low-down personal attacks against victims of abuse. It's just stunning to see how he behaves when he thinks he can't be identified. This is truly the most prolific troll fronits has ever experienced, posing as everything from an abused child to staff to parent to you-name-it.
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2007, 11:31:40 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""its been clear for about 50000 posts now..
If you think it's clear now, just wait until those anon posts are linked to his username. You won't BELIEVE the trolling, posing, false information, low-down personal attacks against victims of abuse. It's just stunning to see how he behaves when he thinks he can't be identified. This is truly the most prolific troll fronits has ever experienced, posing as everything from an abused child to staff to parent to you-name-it.
This could be TheWho posting about itself, for all we know.
What IS TheWho? Where does "it" come from??
Is there a way to kill it? :question:
Post by: Troll Control on May 01, 2007, 12:10:50 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2007, 01:23:40 PM
But there seems to be a BASIC PROBLEM with "linking anonymous postings to THE WHO."
I'm posting as A GUEST and anoynymously. If I post something that is "disliked immensely" as a GUEST or ANON; can my idenity be revealed?
I don't like, or support THE WHO; but something about this process of "linking ANON postings to the THE WHO" seems wrong--if FORNITS intends to maintain the policy of allowing GUEST, ANON posters. FORNITS allows people to post without registering a user name; and the identity of ANON posters has always been respected. Can policy be changed to apply to only one disgraceful poster, like THE WHO?
Post by: Troll Control on May 01, 2007, 01:50:57 PM
Hope this helps.
Post by: RobertBruce on May 01, 2007, 01:58:30 PM
Ginger is adament that even the staunchest program supporters be allowed to post anonmously if they choose. This isnt the HLA board where you have to identify yourself or fall in line with a certain line of thought or risk banishment.
The difference in Who's situation is this. He routinely plays games by posting under various guises, he pretends to be multiple things and attacks people without signing in. He also likes to edit his own posts after being held accountable to something and if he cant he simply lies about it and claims Deborah or Ginger altered his posts.
What's more he's already given his permission to have his postings linked to his user name. Ginger is very big on not outing anyone (even idiots like Who) without their permission. Since he's already given his the linking is already underware. You can rest assured right now Who is scared out of his mind with what's about to be exposed.
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2007, 02:05:48 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2007, 02:09:07 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
That is incorrect. Anonymous posters HAVE been outed. While Milk was moderating (and Deborah), IP addresses were checked and posters were outed. This happened many, many times. Ginger was well aware that this was being done.
Hey no offense, but let's stop with the passive voice and state who exactly was outed, and by whom!
Post by: RobertBruce on May 01, 2007, 02:22:07 PM
On the other hand often times when posters become blatently abusive or are repeatedly lying and playing games much as TheWho and Ottawa have, they will be revealed to the board. Nothing on their post will be changed but the moderator will announce to the board who is behind the guest poster.
A good example of this might be from just the other day. TheWho believes he has some information concerning my time at HLA. He released it on the board anonmously, despite the fact that he is incorrect in his information the fact that he has any suggest staff members at HLA are releasing personal information. When someone brought up this point wondering if it had been an HLA staff member, Deborah revealed it was simply Who thinking he could get away with something.
Hope this clears up any confusion.
Post by: Troll Control on May 01, 2007, 03:08:31 PM
Examples are Anne Hall (Ottawa5) who was tracked down by her username on CEDUalumni and KarenInDallas who was tracked down by her AIM handle being linked to some college boards and StrugglingTeens. No mod or admin aided in these events, ever. This was done by clever users of their own device.
Post by: Deborah on May 01, 2007, 03:11:46 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
That is incorrect. Anonymous posters HAVE been outed. While Milk was moderating (and Deborah), IP addresses were checked and posters were outed. This happened many, many times. Ginger was well aware that this was being done.
Why don't you tell everyone who you are? Stand behind your allegations? And, why are you still implicating me? I've told you numerous times that people got your damn IP numbers from Struggling Teens, where they were posted publicly.
Post by: Deborah on May 01, 2007, 03:18:21 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The WHO's posting are annoying--and he most probably does post as "students, parents, staff, etc" and, it has been proven he posts untrue statements. Few people like THE WHO, and feel fornits would be better off is he simply went away.
But there seems to be a BASIC PROBLEM with "linking anonymous postings to THE WHO."
I'm posting as A GUEST and anoynymously. If I post something that is "disliked immensely" as a GUEST or ANON; can my idenity be revealed?
I don't like, or support THE WHO; but something about this process of "linking ANON postings to the THE WHO" seems wrong--if FORNITS intends to maintain the policy of allowing GUEST, ANON posters. FORNITS allows people to post without registering a user name; and the identity of ANON posters has always been respected. Can policy be changed to apply to only one disgraceful poster, like THE WHO?
Let me ask you a question.
If I post as Guest or with registered user name Joe, do you know anymore about me?
No.
Registering a username does not divulge anything about a person, only what they choose to put in their profile.
No one's anon posts have been assigned to their username unless they agreed to it.
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2007, 03:38:01 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on May 01, 2007, 03:41:56 PM
The above poster is none other then......
Anne of St. Paul Minnesota
How did I know Anne?
Am I psychic?
No.
Am I a moderator?
No.
Youre just that obvious is all.
Post by: Troll Control on May 01, 2007, 04:09:32 PM
Very soon I found your posts at CEDUAlumni under the username "gentiana" with, guess what? Your full name and email address in your profile. Dumb of you to post it.
Then I searched on your username "gentiana" with the keyword "CEDU". What did I get? That's right, posts from StrugglingTeens with your email addy linked to them. Another piece of the puzzle. Then, all I had to do was plug in your IP addy, conveniently SUPPLIED for me by LON WOODBURY at the bottom of all your posts (be mad at yourself and Lon, dummy!), into an IP locator and lo and behold, your city of residence was known. All that was needed then was to plug your name and city into Google and I got a direct hit on your address and phone number.
No help from mods, no special tools, only your own arrogance and stupidity.
Want some advice? DON'T POST YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION ON THE INTERNET! And DON'T ATTACK PEOPLE IN THE SECURITY OF ANONYMITY!
That's how it's done. No IP's from mods or admin, just clever people that know how to follow the information and build on it, and a painfully stupid and arrogant target! :D :D
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2007, 04:36:18 PM
Post by: Nihilanthic on May 01, 2007, 04:39:35 PM
IT HAS to do that, in order to send the data to your computer it needs to send, like the page layout, the text, and the images, and backgrounds. :rofl:
How the fuck do you think it works? Broadcast to EVERYONE and anonymous requests?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2007, 04:53:12 PM
Post by: Troll Control on May 01, 2007, 04:53:15 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Robert- wrong. Not Anne. I know my IP addresses have been checked ON FORNITS. A fornits regular confirmed this to me in a private message.
Suuuuure they did. BullSHIT. This is the same bs that The Who was pulling. Accuse but provide no proof. Sorry, but you're not believable, Karen ( :D ).
You got outed by your lame writing style with the stupid dashes and your affinity for forcing stupid advice on college kids and berating them. You were easy to find. A former program kid of no more than a tender 18 years old tracked you down through StrugglingTeens as well. So WHATEVER. Go sell that shit down the road!
Post by: RobertBruce on May 01, 2007, 04:56:18 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Robert- wrong. Not Anne. I know my IP addresses have been checked ON FORNITS. A fornits regular confirmed this to me in a private message.
Anything you say bitchcakes. Hey has your son forgiven you yet?
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2007, 04:58:22 PM
Post by: Deborah on May 01, 2007, 05:01:36 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
When OverLord posts Karen can't be far behind...:wink:
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2007, 05:10:25 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""Guest""When OverLord posts Karen can't be far behind...:wink:
Do you mean to say that Overlordd is related to or somehow affiliated with Karen?
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2007, 05:18:49 PM
Post by: Deborah on May 01, 2007, 05:28:12 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Deborah""Do you mean to say that Overlordd is related to or somehow affiliated with Karen?Quote from: ""Guest""When OverLord posts Karen can't be far behind...:wink:
Read ST.
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2007, 05:44:33 PM
Post by: Deborah on May 01, 2007, 06:48:09 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Do I have to, Deborah? :flame: ::bwahaha::
You must. ::whip:: :wink:
Post by: Anonymous on May 01, 2007, 06:50:34 PM
(http://http://www.travellady.com/Issues/Issue52/Images/dramamine.jpg)
because you just might
::puke:: ::puke:: ::puke:: ::puke:: ::puke:: ::puke::
Post by: TheWho on May 01, 2007, 06:57:31 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
That's totally false about mods giving out IP's. It's really simple and I personally "outed" you, Anne. All I had to do was take information you posted here, i.e. son at RMA, years of attendence, affection for Wasserman, turn of phrase, etc and start plugging it into Google.
Very soon I found your posts at CEDUAlumni under the username "gentiana" with, guess what? Your full name and email address in your profile. Dumb of you to post it.
Then I searched on your username "gentiana" with the keyword "CEDU". What did I get? That's right, posts from StrugglingTeens with your email addy linked to them. Another piece of the puzzle. Then, all I had to do was plug in your IP addy, conveniently SUPPLIED for me by LON WOODBURY at the bottom of all your posts (be mad at yourself and Lon, dummy!), into an IP locator and lo and behold, your city of residence was known. All that was needed then was to plug your name and city into Google and I got a direct hit on your address and phone number.
No help from mods, no special tools, only your own arrogance and stupidity.
Want some advice? DON'T POST YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION ON THE INTERNET! And DON'T ATTACK PEOPLE IN THE SECURITY OF ANONYMITY!
That's how it's done. No IP's from mods or admin, just clever people that know how to follow the information and build on it, and a painfully stupid and arrogant target! :D :D
But why would anyone want to post another persons personal information on the web without their permission?
It isnt right or ethical and it could be dangerous.
I understand the information is out there to find...but think of it as giving your credit card to your waitress, there is an implied trust there...would it be okay for her to give the information to a "bus boy" who asked her for it? She is not stealing, right? You gave it to her freely..... But I think we can all see that it is unethical and not right for her to do this.
It is the same thing as piecing together peoples info on the web and then posting it for others to take advantage of.
Post by: RobertBruce on May 01, 2007, 06:59:31 PM
Quote
But why would anyone want to post another persons personal information on the web without their permission?
It isnt right or ethical and it could be dangerous.
I understand the information is out there to find...but think of it as giving your credit card to your waitress, there is an implied trust there...would it be okay for her to give the information to a "bus boy" who asked her for it? She is not stealing, right? You gave it to her freely..... But I think we can all see that it is unethical and not right for her to do this.
It is the same thing as piecing together peoples info on the web and then posting it for others to take advantage of.
Interesting coming from you Cindy. Youve claimed for several weeks to know who I am and have even threatened to reveal all sorts of what you claim to be embarrassing information. Youve gone so far as to release what you believe to be my name and what you think is the amount of time I spent while at HLA.
Why the double standard Cindy?
Post by: TheWho on May 01, 2007, 07:02:56 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteBut why would anyone want to post another persons personal information on the web without their permission?
It isnt right or ethical and it could be dangerous.
I understand the information is out there to find...but think of it as giving your credit card to your waitress, there is an implied trust there...would it be okay for her to give the information to a "bus boy" who asked her for it? She is not stealing, right? You gave it to her freely..... But I think we can all see that it is unethical and not right for her to do this.
It is the same thing as piecing together peoples info on the web and then posting it for others to take advantage of.
Interesting coming from you Cindy. Youve claimed for several weeks to know who I am and have even threatened to reveal all sorts of what you claim to be embarrassing information. Youve gone so far as to release what you believe to be my name and what you think is the amount of time I spent while at HLA.
Why the double standard Cindy?
Wow, seems like I know a lot, Devon
Post by: RobertBruce on May 01, 2007, 07:08:55 PM
It's nice that you can delude yourself, really.
No my name is on a vertiable laundry list of things that youve been wrong about. I'm sure they'll be many more things to add to it before you finally tuck tail and sulk away from fornits in shame.
Before that happens though Id like to see if you can explain your double standard.
Well?
Post by: TheWho on May 01, 2007, 07:15:50 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
:D Despite all the times youve been proven wrong, on so many, many things, you still somehow cling to that.
It's nice that you can delude yourself, really.
No my name is on a vertiable laundry list of things that youve been wrong about. I'm sure they'll be many more things to add to it before you finally tuck tail and sulk away from fornits in shame.
Before that happens though Id like to see if you can explain your double standard.
Well?
Sorry,Devon, I have been asked by several people not to respond to your trolling or sharp stick tactics....... no flame wars... Ha,Ha,Ha,. I feel I should honor their requests, lets not waste space here. If you have some specific questions you can PM me.
Post by: RobertBruce on May 01, 2007, 07:18:05 PM
Ha, ha, ha, it's allright, I was just asking. I look forward to talking to you in PM's Cindy.
Post by: Troll Control on May 02, 2007, 12:06:00 PM
Anne and Karen are program parents deserving of all possible rights under law plus the benefit of the doubt and other people's discretion.
You on the other hand, are a program survivor deserving of continued abuse, scorn and no protections under law or through discretion.
This is how this twisted son of a bitch thinks.
BTW, I didn't see TheWho protesting when Anne was making open appeals for people's names and places of work so she could try to get them fired from their jobs. In fact, TheWho was posting anonymously and egging her on to do it.
He's just an asshole with an agenda, nothing more, nothing less. Just a fucked up guy that spends 20 hours a day on a message board.
Post by: Froderik on May 02, 2007, 12:15:10 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I'll explain his double standard for you.
Anne and Karen are program parents deserving of all possible rights under law plus the benefit of the doubt and other people's discretion.
You on the other hand, are a program survivor deserving of continued abuse, scorn and no protections under law or through discretion.
This is how this twisted son of a bitch thinks.
BTW, I didn't see TheWho protesting when Anne was making open appeals for people's names and places of work so she could try to get them fired from their jobs. In fact, TheWho was posting anonymously and egging her on to do it.
He's just an asshole with an agenda, nothing more, nothing less. Just a fucked up guy that spends 20 hours a day on a message board.
Well said, & thanks for the insight.
Post by: TheWho on May 02, 2007, 03:30:17 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I'll explain his double standard for you.
Anne and Karen are program parents deserving of all possible rights under law plus the benefit of the doubt and other people's discretion.
You on the other hand, are a program survivor deserving of continued abuse, scorn and no protections under law or through discretion.
This is how this twisted son of a bitch thinks.
BTW, I didn't see TheWho protesting when Anne was making open appeals for people's names and places of work so she could try to get them fired from their jobs. In fact, TheWho was posting anonymously and egging her on to do it.
He's just an asshole with an agenda, nothing more, nothing less. Just a fucked up guy that spends 20 hours a day on a message board.
Hmmmm.. not hard to guess who this is. Someone is still pissed that they got caught deleting and altering posts...trying a little smear campaign to save face?
Post by: Troll Control on May 02, 2007, 03:52:38 PM
I can almost HEAR the shrinkage! Expose this fucking liar already. Link up those posts and let him defend HIS OWN deplorable behavior.
Permission was given and accepted, so let's get the work done!
Post by: TheWho on May 02, 2007, 03:57:44 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Let's get those anon posts linked up for the reading public. We'll see who's got balls then. Nobody deleted your posts and only you edited them. That much has been estblished by the admin in the web forum hosting thread.
I can almost HEAR the shrinkage! Expose this fucking liar already. Link up those posts and let him defend HIS OWN deplorable behavior.
Permission was given and accepted, so let's get the work done!
Hmmmm...someone without a user name talking about shrinkage and then asking to have another persons posts linked together....very ironic or is that moronic
Log-in!!!
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2007, 04:10:48 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Let's get those anon posts linked up for the reading public. We'll see who's got balls then. Nobody deleted your posts and only you edited them. That much has been estblished by the admin in the web forum hosting thread.
I can almost HEAR the shrinkage! Expose this fucking liar already. Link up those posts and let him defend HIS OWN deplorable behavior.
Permission was given and accepted, so let's get the work done!
:rofl: Right on! :tup: ::rocker:: ::bwahaha2::
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2007, 04:14:31 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2007, 04:23:27 PM
Do it now!!!!!!!! :skull: ::both::
Post by: Troll Control on May 03, 2007, 01:17:37 PM
Wow, Who. Just...wow. No wonder you are here 20 hours a day...
Post by: TheWho on May 11, 2007, 10:05:40 AM
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: nimdA on May 11, 2007, 11:58:22 AM
Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""
Wut Screams?? LOLSQuote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
(http://http://z.about.com/d/pittsburgh/1/7/j/Q/gorilla_1.jpg)
Post by: TheWho on May 11, 2007, 06:09:52 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Bump!
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: TheWho on May 12, 2007, 08:31:51 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
Post by: TheWho on May 12, 2007, 08:32:26 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
Post by: TheWho on May 12, 2007, 08:33:06 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: what is up with those screams? :roll: :rofl: ::bangin:: ::both:: ::fuckoff:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala:: ::lala::
Post by: TheWho on May 12, 2007, 08:34:44 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Bump!
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Anonymous on May 14, 2007, 08:26:14 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 14, 2007, 08:34:29 AM
Post by: Froderik on May 14, 2007, 08:35:30 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 14, 2007, 08:37:14 AM
Post by: Froderik on May 14, 2007, 08:43:22 AM
Oh, and whoever's posting those is a cheesedick. :roll:
Post by: TheWho on May 14, 2007, 02:10:16 PM
Post by: TheWho on May 14, 2007, 02:25:46 PM
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Troll Control on May 15, 2007, 02:13:11 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
These are just image links to a guy fucking another guy in the ass, not embedded movies. (Just thought I'd let people know.)
Oh, and whoever's posting those is a cheesedick. :roll:
Post by: Anonymous on May 15, 2007, 03:33:52 PM
Therapeutic Industry:
[/i] [/b]---------------------There were 9 Homicides, 3 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 13 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
2001
Therapeutic Industry:
i] [/b]---------------------There were 3 Homicides, 3 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other,medical neglect ----- 9 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
2002
Therapeutic Industry:
[/i][/b]---------------------There were 4 Homicides, 1 suicides, 2 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 9 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
2003-2004
Therapeutic Industry:
[/i] [/b]---------------------There were 4 Homicides, 2 suicides, 4 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 12 Total
Post by: Truth Searcher on May 16, 2007, 06:28:00 AM
Obviously I didn't read all 250 some pages. (Rather read a good book thanks) so this is a simplistic observation ... but isn't one death one too many?
Isn't this sort of like saying 'heh there's going to be collateral damage in the industry"?
You almost appear to be defending this.
Post by: Anonymous on May 16, 2007, 07:00:44 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
(http://http://www.wowomg.com/trickpics/1.jpg) (http://http://www.wowomg.com)
Post by: Deborah on May 16, 2007, 07:54:48 AM
Quote from: ""Truth Searcher""
Who~
Obviously I didn't read all 250 some pages. (Rather read a good book thanks) so this is a simplistic observation ... but isn't one death one too many?
Isn't this sort of like saying 'heh there's going to be collateral damage in the industry"?
You almost appear to be defending this.
Yes, he supports the "Window of Loss" excuse. So we kill 60 kids, we 'save' thousands.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=261492#261492 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=261492#261492)
Post by: nimdA on May 16, 2007, 09:49:19 AM
Post by: TheWho on May 16, 2007, 11:09:10 AM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""Truth Searcher""Who~
Obviously I didn't read all 250 some pages. (Rather read a good book thanks) so this is a simplistic observation ... but isn't one death one too many?
Isn't this sort of like saying 'heh there's going to be collateral damage in the industry"?
You almost appear to be defending this.
Yes, he supports the "Window of Loss" excuse. So we kill 60 kids, we 'save' thousands.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=261492#261492 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=261492#261492)
I think you might have read it too quickly, here is what I read:
"So five or 6 kids died..that is 5 or 6 too many, I agree…but how many have they saved? Thousands ..."
Post by: RobertBruce on May 16, 2007, 11:14:53 AM
Post by: Deborah on May 16, 2007, 12:12:27 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""Truth Searcher""Who~
Obviously I didn't read all 250 some pages. (Rather read a good book thanks) so this is a simplistic observation ... but isn't one death one too many?
Isn't this sort of like saying 'heh there's going to be collateral damage in the industry"?
You almost appear to be defending this.
Yes, he supports the "Window of Loss" excuse. So we kill 60 kids, we 'save' thousands.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=261492#261492 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=261492#261492)
I think you might have read it too quickly, here is what I read:
"So five or 6 kids died..that is 5 or 6 too many, I agree…but how many have they saved? Thousands ..."
Quote
How many were guilty…5 or 6 ? out of thousands… So five or 6 kids died..that is 5 or 6 too many, I agree…but how many have they saved? Thousands that we know of…so instead of a thousands being dead we have 44.
That's the "Window of Loss" excuse for exposing kids to unnecessary dangers and risk of death under the guise of 'therapy'.
You know nothing about the thousands who have been through near death experiences at wilderness. You have no clue if they were helped or how they're fairing today.
What 'we' know is that while thousands may have survived the ordeal, 44 (60 including boot camps), did not survive their 'therapy'.
Post by: TheWho on May 16, 2007, 01:19:47 PM
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""Truth Searcher""Who~
Obviously I didn't read all 250 some pages. (Rather read a good book thanks) so this is a simplistic observation ... but isn't one death one too many?
Isn't this sort of like saying 'heh there's going to be collateral damage in the industry"?
You almost appear to be defending this.
Yes, he supports the "Window of Loss" excuse. So we kill 60 kids, we 'save' thousands.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=261492#261492 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=261492#261492)
I think you might have read it too quickly, here is what I read:
"So five or 6 kids died..that is 5 or 6 too many, I agree…but how many have they saved? Thousands ..."QuoteHow many were guilty…5 or 6 ? out of thousands… So five or 6 kids died..that is 5 or 6 too many, I agree…but how many have they saved? Thousands that we know of…so instead of a thousands being dead we have 44.
That's the "Window of Loss" excuse for exposing kids to unnecessary dangers and risk of death under the guise of 'therapy'.
You know nothing about the thousands who have been through near death experiences at wilderness. You have no clue if they were helped or how they're fairing today.
What 'we' know is that while thousands may have survived the ordeal, 44 (60 including boot camps), did not survive their 'therapy'.
…or we could look at it a little more realistically and say the risk of doing nothing (not taking advantage of the “Window of opportunity”) and continuing to allow your child to be exposed to danger and the risk of death, heading down the path they are presently on, is borderline abusive in itself…especially if you have the means to get your child help.
I guess what we don’t know (and don’t agree on) is that if the tens of thousands of kids that went thru wilderness, never went, would the 44 number have increased or decreased?
I believe it would have drastically increased and I would assume you feel the opposite.
Post by: Anonymous on May 16, 2007, 03:05:07 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""Truth Searcher""Who~
Obviously I didn't read all 250 some pages. (Rather read a good book thanks) so this is a simplistic observation ... but isn't one death one too many?
Isn't this sort of like saying 'heh there's going to be collateral damage in the industry"?
You almost appear to be defending this.
Yes, he supports the "Window of Loss" excuse. So we kill 60 kids, we 'save' thousands.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=261492#261492 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=261492#261492)
I think you might have read it too quickly, here is what I read:
"So five or 6 kids died..that is 5 or 6 too many, I agree…but how many have they saved? Thousands ..."QuoteHow many were guilty…5 or 6 ? out of thousands… So five or 6 kids died..that is 5 or 6 too many, I agree…but how many have they saved? Thousands that we know of…so instead of a thousands being dead we have 44.
That's the "Window of Loss" excuse for exposing kids to unnecessary dangers and risk of death under the guise of 'therapy'.
You know nothing about the thousands who have been through near death experiences at wilderness. You have no clue if they were helped or how they're fairing today.
What 'we' know is that while thousands may have survived the ordeal, 44 (60 including boot camps), did not survive their 'therapy'.
…or we could look at it a little more realistically and say the risk of doing nothing (not taking advantage of the “Window of opportunity”) and continuing to allow your child to be exposed to danger and the risk of death, heading down the path they are presently on, is borderline abusive in itself…especially if you have the means to get your child help.
I guess what we don’t know (and don’t agree on) is that if the tens of thousands of kids that went thru wilderness, never went, would the 44 number have increased or decreased?
I believe it would have drastically increased and I would assume you feel the opposite.
Excuse me?
Earth to The Who - you are asserting that programs can or do save children and teenagers, yet you have absolutely ZERO data to back that up.
Absolutely none.
If you have it, present it. Show your work, and cite your sources. Otherwise, shut up and stop spewing empty nonsense
Post by: Nihilanthic on May 16, 2007, 03:09:49 PM
(http://http://www.seaworld.org/animal-info/Animal-Bytes/animalia/eumetazoa/coelomates/deuterostomes/chordata/craniata/mammalia/primates/images/pic-western-lowland-gorilla-02.jpg)
I'm watching you!
Post by: TheWho on May 16, 2007, 05:26:54 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
BTW that was me posting anon before.
(http://http://www.seaworld.org/animal-info/Animal-Bytes/animalia/eumetazoa/coelomates/deuterostomes/chordata/craniata/mammalia/primates/images/pic-western-lowland-gorilla-02.jpg)
I'm watching you!
No it wasnt, it may have looked like you but it was me posting anon...... and no, I am watching you !!
(http://http://www.tedwatts.net/images/PSU/gorillamask.jpg)
Post by: TheWho on May 16, 2007, 05:28:55 PM
Quote
Excuse me?
Earth to The Who - you are asserting that programs can or do save children and teenagers, yet you have absolutely ZERO data to back that up.
Absolutely none.
If you have it, present it. Show your work, and cite your sources. Otherwise, shut up and stop spewing empty nonsense
I think if we based the safety of the wilderness programs merely on the risk of death based on the tens of thousands that have gone through wilderness it would be a milestone in and of itself, but it is obviously not a marketing strategy I would endorse. Although, most parents are aware of their Childs present safety and this is typically used as a baseline or Benchmark if you will . I think the lion share of people/parents realize that wilderness programs are extremely effective… But many parents are looking for more evidence and what the programs typically do is refer people to others who have completed the program, like most successful businesses do (adoption agencies do this also). This gives you a chance to speak directly to a parent who was in the same position as they are now and talk a little about their struggles and the pros and cons of sending a child to wilderness camp. This is very helpful because you can get some tips on proceeding to the next step and allows the parent to get a perspective of what worked and what didn’t in their specific case. Of course you need to do a little outside research on your own because they are going to refer you to the kids who were the most successful, but then this holds true in every business. They are not going to give you the numbers of parents whos kids did not do as well in the program.
What I typically tell parents is to do their homework, talk to the school/ counselors, the childs therapist if she/he has one and talk to a few different wilderness and TBS if that is your focus. They each bring something unique into play and not all can be a good fit for every child.
Hope this helps.
Post by: Anonymous on May 16, 2007, 07:58:17 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I think if we based the safety of the wilderness programs merely on the risk of death based on the tens of thousands that have gone through wilderness it would be a milestone in and of itself,
How do you know tens of thousands of kids have gone through wilderness??
Post by: Deborah on May 16, 2007, 09:56:44 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Deborah wrote:QuoteExcuse me?
Earth to The Who - you are asserting that programs can or do save children and teenagers, yet you have absolutely ZERO data to back that up.
Absolutely none.
If you have it, present it. Show your work, and cite your sources. Otherwise, shut up and stop spewing empty nonsense
I didn't write that Who. Edit your post and remove my name.
Post by: Nihilanthic on May 16, 2007, 10:17:24 PM
Quote from: "Deborah"
Quote from: ""TheWho""Deborah wrote:QuoteExcuse me?
Earth to The Who - you are asserting that programs can or do save children and teenagers, yet you have absolutely ZERO data to back that up.
Absolutely none.
If you have it, present it. Show your work, and cite your sources. Otherwise, shut up and stop spewing empty nonsense
I didn't write that Who. Edit your post and remove my name.
I FUCKING WROTE IT
Post by: Anonymous on May 16, 2007, 10:28:35 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
I FUCKING WROTE IT
What?? How the hell did THAT happen? Wtf???
Post by: Nihilanthic on May 16, 2007, 10:29:52 PM
Quote
I think if we based the safety of the wilderness programs merely on the risk of death based on the tens of thousands that have gone through wilderness it would be a milestone in and of itself, but it is obviously not a marketing strategy I would endorse.
Clearly, as "Well, they don't die too much" hardly has anything at all to do with "we find problems and fix them without abuse, bullshit, quackery, or excuses to keep them longer to make more money" which is what they should be doing.
Quote
Although, most parents are aware of their Childs present safety and this is typically used as a baseline or Benchmark if you will .
Uh, no, the baseline or "benchmark" of therapy is its effectiveness, not its safety. Safety is a concern but not a qualifier. If it is useless, why does its safety matter?
Quote
I think the lion share of people/parents realize that wilderness programs are extremely effective…
Realize? Uh, considering there is no proof of such a reality, there is no realization to be had, only a belief, and an ill-begotten one at that.
Quote
But many parents are looking for more evidence and what the programs typically do is refer people to others who have completed the program, like most successful businesses do (adoption agencies do this also).
Anecdotes are no replacement for redivisim studies with a sufficient sample size. Also, you can't justify not treating a child becuase they were sent to the most commercially successful wilderness camp becuase its good business practice. Ethics are something the entire "industry" lacks.
Or, as Morbo would say IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY.
(http://http://www.pbones.com/images/blobimages/20061129morbo.gif)
Quote
This gives you a chance to speak directly to a parent who was in the same position as they are now and talk a little about their struggles and the pros and cons of sending a child to wilderness camp.
Anecdotes STILL don't count, and misleading vividness about the imaginary pros and cons cooked up by ed-cons do not count as real advice considering they are based on unproven (or just bullshit) assertions and beliefs in the first place.
Quote
This is very helpful because you can get some tips on proceeding to the next step and allows the parent to get a perspective of what worked and what didn’t in their specific case.
Anecdotes... hello? And tips from someone who has a vested interest in belief that it worked (Oh, misleading vividness rules!) is still bullshit. Parents of messed up kids are not experts on messed up kids, now are they? A "consumer experience" or review is not a replacement for professional, educated advice and evaluation.
Which kids in any program, wilderness included, do not get.
Quote
Of course you need to do a little outside research on your own because they are going to refer you to the kids who were the most successful, but then this holds true in every business. They are not going to give you the numbers of parents whos kids did not do as well in the program.
Wow, you finally say something thats... 100% true and honest! Wow.
Quote
What I typically tell parents is to do their homework, talk to the school/ counselors, the childs therapist if she/he has one and talk to a few different wilderness and TBS if that is your focus. They each bring something unique into play and not all can be a good fit for every child.
Hope this helps.
Too bad you don't tell them about the bullshit of the industry, the COMPLETE lack of proof of any help being done, any recidivism studies, or anything scientific or rigorous, and that you're not an expert on jack squat except justifying things to yourself!
Post by: Nihilanthic on May 16, 2007, 10:31:06 PM
Quote from: ""Tex""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""I FUCKING WROTE ITWhat?? How the hell did THAT happen? Wtf???
IE didn't have the fornits login cookie and I was too lazy to log in.
I usually use Firefox...
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 12:22:40 AM
free videos (http://www.break.com/)
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 12:32:04 AM
Quote from: ""FUCK TheWho!""
Kill that motherfucker!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :flame:
Do it now!!!!!!!! :skull: ::both::
:tup:
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 12:36:04 AM
Post by: TheWho on May 17, 2007, 06:52:49 AM
Quote from: "Deborah"
Quote from: ""TheWho""Deborah wrote:QuoteExcuse me?
Earth to The Who - you are asserting that programs can or do save children and teenagers, yet you have absolutely ZERO data to back that up.
Absolutely none.
If you have it, present it. Show your work, and cite your sources. Otherwise, shut up and stop spewing empty nonsense
I didn't write that Who. Edit your post and remove my name.
Sorry, I was following the train of thought from your previous post.....
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 09:38:05 AM
free videos (http://www.break.com/)
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 09:47:13 AM
Post by: TheWho on May 17, 2007, 10:10:30 AM
Niles wrote:
Quote
Parents of messed up kids are not experts on messed up kids, now are they? A "consumer experience" or review is not a replacement for professional, educated advice and evaluation.
There seems to be a bit of common ground here……..
If there were presently more updated research and studies available then we would not have to have this particular discussion, but since there isn’t we need to get comfortable with what we have. Most businesses which don’t have studies completed (i.e. day care agencies, adoption agencies, preschools, wilderness etc.) typically use word of mouth and encourage the potential client to seek out other resources to further educate themselves. What has been extremely successful and a good way to know about a particular program is to talk to some parents who have had kids attend. This gives a parent a chance to address issues that are shared by concerned parents. i.e. safety, communication, success, how the school operates, talk about the downside etc.The programs also have the parents get the child evaluated prior to accepting an application for admission (if they don’t, you should get this done on your own). Another avenue for information is to speak with your childs therapist, if they are seeing one, or school counselor and pediatrician.
If you combine all the above a parent should have enough information to make a decision of whether placing a child outside the home is the right one for their family.
Hope this clears it up a little bit.
Post by: Troll Control on May 17, 2007, 10:53:11 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 02:03:46 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 02:28:26 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Niles, much of what you said seems to be anger driven, weak on facts and heavy on the emotion. So let me try to boil off a little of that and speak directly to one of your points, if I may.
Niles wrote:QuoteParents of messed up kids are not experts on messed up kids, now are they? A "consumer experience" or review is not a replacement for professional, educated advice and evaluation.
There seems to be a bit of common ground here……..
If there were presently more updated research and studies available then we would not have to have this particular discussion, but since there isn’t we need to get comfortable with what we have. Most businesses which don’t have studies completed (i.e. day care agencies, adoption agencies, preschools, wilderness etc.) typically use word of mouth and encourage the potential client to seek out other resources to further educate themselves. What has been extremely successful and a good way to know about a particular program is to talk to some parents who have had kids attend. This gives a parent a chance to address issues that are shared by concerned parents. i.e. safety, communication, success, how the school operates, talk about the downside etc.The programs also have the parents get the child evaluated prior to accepting an application for admission (if they don’t, you should get this done on your own). Another avenue for information is to speak with your childs therapist, if they are seeing one, or school counselor and pediatrician.
If you combine all the above a parent should have enough information to make a decision of whether placing a child outside the home is the right one for their family.
Hope this clears it up a little bit.
I replied to you,but I did not read anything you wrote.
You are boring bleh bleh bleh bleh...and you know it.
Post by: Nihilanthic on May 17, 2007, 05:03:02 PM
KELLY WHERES MY DELETE BUTTON :P
Post by: Nihilanthic on May 17, 2007, 05:03:47 PM
Post by: Nihilanthic on May 17, 2007, 05:05:40 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Niles, much of what you said seems to be anger driven, weak on facts and heavy on the emotion. So let me try to boil off a little of that and speak directly to one of your points, if I may.
Assertive, empty, un-proven, ad hominem attacks, again? Now? After all this time?
'Who' are you kidding? :rofl: I called you on your lack of evidence to back up your assertions, and on your logical fallacies, and you say Im short on facts and heavy on emotion? This isn't Struggling Teens.
Quote from: ""TheWho""
If there were presently more updated research and studies available then we would not have to have this particular discussion, but since there isn’t we need to get comfortable with what we have.
No, until there is evidence to demonstrate they work, there is no evidence to demonstrate they work, thus they are "unproven". That's a really bullshit excuse to go by anecdotes, and to ignore the glaring lack of any evidence that should be abundant in the time the last 30 years has passed.
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Most businesses which don’t have studies completed (i.e. day care agencies, adoption agencies, preschools, wilderness etc.) typically use word of mouth and encourage the potential client to seek out other resources to further educate themselves.
Marketing is not proof of efficacy! You can not justify marketing as proof of effectiveness!
Quote from: ""TheWho""
What has been extremely successful and a good way to know about a particular program is to talk to some parents who have had kids attend.
Anecdotes still do not count as proof. It is not emprical data!
Quote from: ""TheWho""
This gives a parent a chance to address issues that are shared by concerned parents. i.e. safety, communication, success, how the school operates, talk about the downside etc.
There you go with your ad-hoc reasoning again :roll:
A parent of a child with real or imagined (but undiagnosed) problems who has put their child through an unproven wilderness program with no proof of efficacy or any evidence they even diagnose issues before putting the kid through it, is nothing more than a consumer of a service.
Not an expert on anything.
Furthermore, it is hardly a secret that programs will twist and manipulate and spin (Like you are right now...) in approval of isolation, their definition of sucess, or try to minimize downsides with talk of "tough but fair" or wahtnot.
Quote from: ""TheWho""
The programs also have the parents get the child evaluated prior to accepting an application for admission (if they don’t, you should get this done on your own).
Do they? What about programs that take children with no Dx? What about wilderness programs that takes kids with a Dx requiring a stay in a hospital, not dirt?
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Another avenue for information is to speak with your childs therapist, if they are seeing one, or school counselor and pediatrician.
Wow, good advice! You forgot to say not an edcon.
Quote from: ""TheWho""
If you combine all the above a parent should have enough information to make a decision of whether placing a child outside the home is the right one for their family.
Hope this clears it up a little bit.
Talking to real professionals about real treatment for real problems with proof they work is one thing, talking to manipulated parents who have a vested interest in believing the program worked for them (and just maybe their kid too) is another.
Parents of kids with problems are not experts on kids, or problems, or kids with problems because they are the parent of them. More often than not their abuse or negligence is the cause of it to begin with.
Sticking to experts who are not out to make a buck off of a program's referral fee, who stick to proven treatment that works - and only when there is a problem that actually needs treatment - is the way to go, not talking to emotionally wound up non-expert parents who go by word of mouth marketing for a business out to make money.
Post by: TheWho on May 17, 2007, 05:54:05 PM
Quote
Parents of kids with problems are not experts on kids, or problems, or kids with problems because they are the parent of them. More often than not their abuse or negligence is the cause of it to begin with.
Sticking to experts who are not out to make a buck off of a program's referral fee…..
Long way around the conversation but it seems we agree, professional advice etc. except for the parent referral, which I think is key because they are the closest to the child and know their needs best. So let me reiterate:
Most businesses which don’t have studies completed (i.e. day care agencies, adoption agencies, preschools, wilderness etc.) typically use word of mouth and encourage the potential client to seek out other resources to further educate themselves. What has been extremely successful and a good way to know about a particular program is to talk to some parents who have had kids attend. This gives a parent a chance to address issues that are shared by concerned parents. i.e. safety, communication, success, how the school operates, talk about the upside/downside etc.The programs also have the parents get the child evaluated prior to accepting an application for admission (if they don’t, you should get this done on your own). Another avenue for information is to speak with your childs therapist, if they are seeing one, or school counselor and pediatrician. If you combine all the above a parent should have enough information to make a decision of whether placing a child outside the home is the right one for their family.
Hope this clears it up a little bit.
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 06:28:01 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Niles wrote:QuoteParents of kids with problems are not experts on kids, or problems, or kids with problems because they are the parent of them. More often than not their abuse or negligence is the cause of it to begin with.
Sticking to experts who are not out to make a buck off of a program's referral fee…..
Long way around the conversation but it seems we agree, professional advice etc. except for the parent referral, which I think is key because they are the closest to the child and know their needs best. So let me reiterate:
Most businesses which don’t have studies completed (i.e. day care agencies, adoption agencies, preschools, wilderness etc.) typically use word of mouth and encourage the potential client to seek out other resources to further educate themselves. What has been extremely successful and a good way to know about a particular program is to talk to some parents who have had kids attend. This gives a parent a chance to address issues that are shared by concerned parents. i.e. safety, communication, success, how the school operates, talk about the upside/downside etc.The programs also have the parents get the child evaluated prior to accepting an application for admission (if they don’t, you should get this done on your own). Another avenue for information is to speak with your childs therapist, if they are seeing one, or school counselor and pediatrician. If you combine all the above a parent should have enough information to make a decision of whether placing a child outside the home is the right one for their family.
Hope this clears it up a little bit.
Why do you have to reiterate why businesses try to use word of mouth as marketing, then repeat going to people in bold... after Niles has made his point?
Why can't you just leave out the word-of-mouth program parents pushing for free months of tuition from the equation? ::bangin::
Post by: TheWho on May 17, 2007, 06:38:51 PM
Quote
Why can't you just leave out the word-of-mouth program parents pushing for free months of tuition from the equation?
I did !! I never mentioned anything about free tuition because it isn’t part of the process. We need to stay focused on getting the kids the help they need and determining a process which best serves them. Parents who have been thru the process are a good source of information for new parents....
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 07:06:58 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 09:01:38 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. (my favorite)
No toilet paper.
Had rocks and items thrown at me.
Locked in a hot, wooden box.
Forced to eat paper.
Forced to be naked for a week.
Thrown into the ocean during a typhoon. ( I think he would keep blowing back ,would'nt he?)
Kicked down a hill and had logs thrown on me.
Had a chair slammed into my gut.
Obtained more skin diseases than a POW in Vietnam.
Forced to carry "sandbags" of rocks up and down hills.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21145&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=80)
Why would theWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse?
Quote from: ""TheWho""
There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
Oh, that's all. What a disgusting person to spend their time making fun of child abuse victims.
TheWho: making fun of child abuse victims.
Post by: psy on May 17, 2007, 09:07:42 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteWhy can't you just leave out the word-of-mouth program parents pushing for free months of tuition from the equation?
I did !! I never mentioned anything about free tuition because it isn’t part of the process. We need to stay focused on getting the kids the help they need and determining a process which best serves them. Parents who have been thru the process are a good source of information for new parents....
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 09:14:12 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:58 am
Sorry -- I cant speak to what I dont know. I am telling of my own experiences. I know first hand of people who were turned down by ASR after they were evaluated by a third party. I am not saying all kids are required because I dont know that, none of us do. But they require an evaluation of atleast some children. Kids that have graduated, look back and remember it was called the "Bubble" because it was a safe place to be. Maybe that is a double edge sword, because after they left it was difficult being outside the "Bubble" and readjusting to everyday life. But during the time there, atleast some of them, felt they were in a safe place, maybe all of them (but I never met all of them so I dont really know).
I do have to say that anyone who claims to know every aspect or every program, is really fooling himself and the one flinging the BS. You should speak about what you know about. What I am talking about is what I personally know. If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
As stated before, theWho is a liar.
This survivor spoke of a facility TheWho knows nothing about, and he presumably and sadistically mocked this survivor.
He is a liar, a hypocrite and a cruel person.
That much has been proven without a doubt!
Post by: TheWho on May 17, 2007, 09:37:34 PM
Quote
Why can't you just leave out the word-of-mouth program parents pushing for free months of tuition from the equation?
I did !! I never mentioned anything about free tuition because it isn’t part of the process. We need to stay focused on getting the kids the help they need and determining a process which best serves them. Parents who have been thru the process are a good source of information for new parents....
How come I was never told about this free tuition deal? Nope... Just doesnt sound fair does it?
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 09:41:05 PM
free videos (http://www.break.com/)
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 09:45:56 PM
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
TheWho writes the next day Sun Apr 15, 2007 in response to a guest in another thread:
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80[/url]
Why would theWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse?Quote from: ""TheWho""There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
He disgustingly uses the most graphic details of a survivor's abuse story to make jokes. He is making fun of a child abuse victim who is explaining they were sexually abused, and he makes fun of the very next day. TheWho has some maturing to do!Quote from: ""TheWho""If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
He is also a known liar.
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 09:51:30 PM
free videos (http://www.break.com/)
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 09:52:36 PM
Post by: TheWho on May 17, 2007, 09:57:41 PM
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 09:58:53 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 10:01:33 PM
Quote from: ""Disgusted with TheWho""
Copy/pasted from this thread of post made Sat Apr 14, 2007
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
TheWho writes the next day Sun Apr 15, 2007 in response to a guest in another thread:Quote from: ""TheWho""Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80[/url]
Why would theWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse?Quote from: ""TheWho""There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
He disgustingly uses the most graphic details of a survivor's abuse story to make jokes. He is making fun of a child abuse victim who is explaining they were sexually abused, and he makes fun of the very next day. TheWho has some maturing to do!Quote from: ""TheWho""If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
He is also a known liar.
Making fun of sexual abuse victims --- doesn't get any more SLEEZY than THAT!!
::noway:: ::noway:: ::noway:: ::noway::
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 11:13:29 PM
1982
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, unknown----- 1 Total
1984
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 2 Total
1985
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1988
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1989
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 4 Total
1990
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 4 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1991
There were 1 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1992
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1993
There were 5 Homicides, 1 Suicide Attempt, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1994
There were 3 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 4 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 9 Total
1995
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1996
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1997
There were 7 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1998
There were 7 Homicides, 5 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other,Medical Neglect----- 15 Total
1999
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect ----- 6 Total
2000
There wre 9 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 13 Total
2001
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other, Medical Neglect----- 9 Total
2002
There were 4 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 2 Accidents, 2 Other----- 9 Total
2003
There were 3 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Unknown----- 6 Total
2004
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 6 Total
2005
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 5 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 12 Total
2006
There were 4 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 6 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 15 Total
2007
There were to date, 2 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect----- 4 Total
Grand Total----- 155 Known Deaths
Unknown Deaths, Accidents, Injuries, Assaults, Sexual inpropriaties, Hazing----- ????
http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp)
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html)
http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm (http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm)
Post by: Nihilanthic on May 17, 2007, 11:15:02 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 11:26:07 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
1980 There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 7 Accidents, 0 Other----- 7 Total
1982
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, unknown----- 1 Total
1984
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 2 Total
1985
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1988
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1989
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 4 Total
1990
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 4 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1991
There were 1 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1992
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1993
There were 5 Homicides, 1 Suicide Attempt, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1994
There were 3 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 4 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 9 Total
1995
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1996
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1997
There were 7 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1998
There were 7 Homicides, 5 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other,Medical Neglect----- 15 Total
1999
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect ----- 6 Total
2000
There wre 9 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 13 Total
2001
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other, Medical Neglect----- 9 Total
2002
There were 4 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 2 Accidents, 2 Other----- 9 Total
2003
There were 3 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Unknown----- 6 Total
2004
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 6 Total
2005
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 5 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 12 Total
2006
There were 4 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 6 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 15 Total
2007
There were to date, 2 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect----- 4 Total
Grand Total----- 155 Known Deaths
Unknown Deaths, Accidents, Injuries, Assaults, Sexual inpropriaties, Hazing----- ????
http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp)
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html)
http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm (http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm)
That is a lot of dead kids, for no reason.
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 12:02:22 AM
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 08:08:59 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Who did the numbers...??? are these accurate?
No, I tracked a few back and they include kids that died at home or in accidents away from school etc. So they would be double counted and included in NCES data also......
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 08:19:51 AM
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
TheWho writes the next day Sun Apr 15, 2007 in response to a guest in another thread:
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80[/url]
Why would theWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse?Quote from: ""TheWho""There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
He disgustingly uses the most graphic details of a survivor's abuse story to make jokes. He is making fun of a child abuse victim who is explaining they were sexually abused, and he makes fun of the very next day. TheWho has some maturing to do!Quote from: ""TheWho""If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
He is also a known liar.
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 08:50:30 AM
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 08:53:58 AM
(http://http://img1.jurko.net/avatar_2792.jpg)
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 09:18:41 AM
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 7 Accidents, 0 Other----- 7 Total
1982
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, unknown----- 1 Total
1984
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 2 Total
1985
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1988
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1989
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 4 Total
1990
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 4 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1991
There were 1 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1992
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1993
There were 5 Homicides, 1 Suicide Attempt, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1994
There were 3 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 4 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 9 Total
1995
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1996
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1997
There were 7 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1998
There were 7 Homicides, 5 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other,Medical Neglect----- 15 Total
1999
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect ----- 6 Total
2000
There wre 9 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 13 Total
2001
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other, Medical Neglect----- 9 Total
2002
There were 4 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 2 Accidents, 2 Other----- 9 Total
2003
There were 3 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Unknown----- 6 Total
2004
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 6 Total
2005
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 5 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 12 Total
2006
There were 4 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 6 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 15 Total
2007
There were to date, 2 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect----- 4 Total
Grand Total----- 155 Known Deaths
Unknown Deaths, Accidents, Injuries, Assaults, Sexual inpropriaties, Hazing----- ????
http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp)
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html)
http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm (http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm)
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 09:33:47 AM
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 09:43:55 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 09:58:15 AM
Post by: Deborah on May 18, 2007, 10:35:52 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I will have to find out the name....but there was 1 girl who did commit suicide at Heritage soon after I left. So, either late 89 or early 90. I will try to find out the name. But, I know for as fact it did happen.
I don't have this on my list. Please post any info you find, particularly news articles. Thanks.
Post by: Troll Control on May 18, 2007, 11:01:06 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
1980
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 7 Accidents, 0 Other----- 7 Total
1982
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, unknown----- 1 Total
1984
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 2 Total
1985
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1988
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1989
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 4 Total
1990
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 4 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1991
There were 1 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1992
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1993
There were 5 Homicides, 1 Suicide Attempt, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1994
There were 3 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 4 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 9 Total
1995
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1996
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1997
There were 7 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1998
There were 7 Homicides, 5 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other,Medical Neglect----- 15 Total
1999
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect ----- 6 Total
2000
There wre 9 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 13 Total
2001
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other, Medical Neglect----- 9 Total
2002
There were 4 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 2 Accidents, 2 Other----- 9 Total
2003
There were 3 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Unknown----- 6 Total
2004
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 6 Total
2005
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 5 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 12 Total
2006
There were 4 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 6 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 15 Total
2007
There were to date, 2 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect----- 4 Total
Grand Total----- 155 Known Deaths
Unknown Deaths, Accidents, Injuries, Assaults, Sexual inpropriaties, Hazing----- ????
http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp)
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html)
http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm (http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm)
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 11:07:05 AM
You cannot quantify the permanent psychological damage the programs do to teens.
This is a pointless exercise.
You all know that already, though.
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 11:08:44 AM
Copy/pasted from this thread of post made Sat Apr 14, 2007
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
TheWho writes the next day Sun Apr 15, 2007 in response to a guest in another thread:
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80[/url]
Why would TheWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse? The comments int he parenthesis are TheWho's, the rest was copy/pasted from a survivor testimony posted one day earlier, detailing sexual abuse and other horrible forms of abuse.Quote from: ""TheWho""There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
He disgustingly uses the most graphic details of a survivor's abuse story to make jokes. He is making fun of a child abuse victim who is explaining they were sexually abused, and he makes fun of the very next day. TheWho has some maturing to do!Quote from: ""TheWho""If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
He is also a CONFIRMED liar.
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 11:13:34 AM
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 11:14:51 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Bump.... Okay...here is the accurate count.... as I promised I will try to keep it in the current last 2 pages, the thread has been busy lately and it slipped back a ways
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 11:17:04 AM
Quote from: ""Some Bloke""
Well, looks lyke we got the bloody Who figgered out.. on t' the next troll then.. :rofl:
Exhasted, let's start with you! You've been quite full of shit lately...
Anyone have anything they wanna say to exhausted??
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 11:18:27 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
OK, so we all agree that this is where we're at with program deaths:Quote from: ""Guest""1980
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 7 Accidents, 0 Other----- 7 Total
1982
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, unknown----- 1 Total
1984
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 2 Total
1985
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1988
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1989
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 4 Total
1990
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 4 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1991
There were 1 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1992
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1993
There were 5 Homicides, 1 Suicide Attempt, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1994
There were 3 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 4 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 9 Total
1995
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1996
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1997
There were 7 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1998
There were 7 Homicides, 5 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other,Medical Neglect----- 15 Total
1999
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect ----- 6 Total
2000
There wre 9 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 13 Total
2001
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other, Medical Neglect----- 9 Total
2002
There were 4 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 2 Accidents, 2 Other----- 9 Total
2003
There were 3 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Unknown----- 6 Total
2004
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 6 Total
2005
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 5 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 12 Total
2006
There were 4 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 6 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 15 Total
2007
There were to date, 2 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect----- 4 Total
Grand Total----- 155 Known Deaths
Unknown Deaths, Accidents, Injuries, Assaults, Sexual inpropriaties, Hazing----- ????
http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp)
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html)
http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm (http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm)
This data is supported with links to outside data, news articles and proof, unlike the other person quoting their made up numbers. Good job on compiling this. I agree with the other guest though, it's obviously underreported. We all have read the articles and know staff try to cover up deaths and avoid news articles.
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 11:20:40 AM
Quote from: ""Don't Forget Whos real na""
No detailed stories of sexual abuse for you to publicly make fun of tonight TheWho? No wonder you are bored!!!! Where are those witty remarks at the expense of sexual abuse victims ?
Copy/pasted from this thread of post made Sat Apr 14, 2007
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
TheWho writes the next day Sun Apr 15, 2007 in response to a guest in another thread:Quote from: ""TheWho""Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80[/url]
Why would TheWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse? The comments int he parenthesis are TheWho's, the rest was copy/pasted from a survivor testimony posted one day earlier, detailing sexual abuse and other horrible forms of abuse.Quote from: ""TheWho""There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
He disgustingly uses the most graphic details of a survivor's abuse story to make jokes. He is making fun of a child abuse victim who is explaining they were sexually abused, and he makes fun of the very next day. TheWho has some maturing to do!Quote from: ""TheWho""If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
He is also a CONFIRMED liar.
What a SCUM BAG!!
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 11:26:09 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Bump.... Okay...here is the accurate count.... as I promised I will try to keep it in the current last 2 pages, the thread has been busy lately and it slipped back a ways
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 11:27:19 AM
DIE, MOTHERFUCKER, DIE!!!!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 11:31:56 AM
(http://http://img1.jurko.net/avatar_2792.jpg)
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 11:35:24 AM
He admits he finds one of the most detailed and horrifying accounts "struck him as a little funny".
He copy/pasted the most graphic part of this survivor's testimony.
Then added his own comments in a sadistic attempt at humor. The
day after the survivor posted their original story.
TheWho posted in response to one guest as a way to "Get back at that guest" and "try to be funny".
He failed at both.
He did, however, manage to show his true nature, decide for yourself.
In an earlier post he claims he would believe a survivor if he knew nothing of the facility (as in this case).
A confirmed lie.
He will not just disbelieve a survivor. He will copy/paste their words.
Add his own jokes about sexual and physical abuse in captivity.
A truly disgusting spectacle of immaturity by TheWho.
The Who admits to finding testimony of sexual and physical abuse "a little funny" and is a confirmed liar.
Copy/pasted from this thread of post made Sat Apr 14, 2007
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
TheWho writes the next day Sun Apr 15, 2007 in response to a guest:
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80[/url]
Why would TheWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse? The comments int he parenthesis are TheWho's, the rest was copy/pasted from a survivor testimony posted one day earlier, detailing sexual abuse and other horrible forms of abuse.Quote from: ""TheWho""There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
He disgustingly uses the most graphic details of a survivor's abuse story to make jokes. He is making fun of a child abuse victim who is explaining they were sexually abused, and he makes fun of the very next day. TheWho has some maturing to do!Quote from: ""TheWho""If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
He is also a CONFIRMED liar.
"Who" finds detailed accounts of sexual and physical abuse in captivity funny and then uses it in their posts to make jokes???
Talk about SLEEZY! :roll:
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 11:36:23 AM
Copy/pasted from this thread of post made Sat Apr 14, 2007
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
TheWho writes the next day Sun Apr 15, 2007 in response to a guest in another thread:
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80[/url]
Why would TheWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse? The comments int he parenthesis are TheWho's, the rest was copy/pasted from a survivor testimony posted one day earlier, detailing sexual abuse and other horrible forms of abuse.Quote from: ""TheWho""There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
He disgustingly uses the most graphic details of a survivor's abuse story to make jokes. He is making fun of a child abuse victim who is explaining they were sexually abused, and he makes fun of the very next day. TheWho has some maturing to do!Quote from: ""TheWho""If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
He is also a CONFIRMED liar.
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 11:42:05 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I like these better, more accurate and the data is backed up with facts.Quote from: ""TheWho""Bump.... Okay...here is the accurate count.... as I promised I will try to keep it in the current last 2 pages, the thread has been busy lately and it slipped back a ways
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 11:44:22 AM
Quote from: "Stop killing kids"
Quote from: ""Guest""OK, so we all agree that this is where we're at with program deaths:Quote from: ""Guest""1980
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 7 Accidents, 0 Other----- 7 Total
1982
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, unknown----- 1 Total
1984
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 2 Total
1985
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1988
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1989
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 4 Total
1990
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 4 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1991
There were 1 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1992
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1993
There were 5 Homicides, 1 Suicide Attempt, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1994
There were 3 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 4 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 9 Total
1995
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1996
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1997
There were 7 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1998
There were 7 Homicides, 5 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other,Medical Neglect----- 15 Total
1999
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect ----- 6 Total
2000
There wre 9 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 13 Total
2001
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other, Medical Neglect----- 9 Total
2002
There were 4 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 2 Accidents, 2 Other----- 9 Total
2003
There were 3 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Unknown----- 6 Total
2004
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 6 Total
2005
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 5 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 12 Total
2006
There were 4 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 6 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 15 Total
2007
There were to date, 2 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect----- 4 Total
Grand Total----- 155 Known Deaths
Unknown Deaths, Accidents, Injuries, Assaults, Sexual inpropriaties, Hazing----- ????
http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp)
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html)
http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm (http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm)
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 11:46:46 AM
No one wants to read this CRAP!
Post something worthwhile or STFU.
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 11:48:14 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
What is all this fucking horseshit?
No one wants to read this CRAP!
Post something worthwhile or STFU.
Irony, once again perfectly defined, thanks guest!!! :rofl:
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 11:48:34 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I like these better, more accurate and the data is backed up with facts.Quote from: ""TheWho""Bump.... Okay...here is the accurate count.... as I promised I will try to keep it in the current last 2 pages, the thread has been busy lately and it slipped back a ways
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 11:49:20 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 11:50:51 AM
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 11:52:07 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
(http://http://www.rightcoastcars.com/shows/syn/images/flamethrower.jpg)
This is why America IS and always will be the greatest nation on earth!
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 11:52:56 AM
Keep trolling the asshole, make him post is "numbers" a million times! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 11:55:06 AM
He admits he finds one of the most detailed and horrifying accounts "struck him as a little funny".
He copy/pasted the most graphic part of this survivor's testimony.
Then added his own comments in a sadistic attempt at humor. The
day after the survivor posted their original story.
TheWho posted in response to one guest as a way to "Get back at that guest" and "try to be funny".
He failed at both.
He did, however, manage to show his true nature, decide for yourself.
In an earlier post he claims he would believe a survivor if he knew nothing of the facility (as in this case).
A confirmed lie.
He will not just disbelieve a survivor. He will copy/paste their words.
Add his own jokes about sexual and physical abuse in captivity.
A truly disgusting spectacle of immaturity by TheWho.
The Who admits to finding testimony of sexual and physical abuse "a little funny" and is a confirmed liar.
Copy/pasted from this thread of post made Sat Apr 14, 2007
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
TheWho writes the next day Sun Apr 15, 2007 in response to a guest:
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80[/url]
Why would TheWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse? The comments int he parenthesis are TheWho's, the rest was copy/pasted from a survivor testimony posted one day earlier, detailing sexual abuse and other horrible forms of abuse.Quote from: ""TheWho""There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
He disgustingly uses the most graphic details of a survivor's abuse story to make jokes. He is making fun of a child abuse victim who is explaining they were sexually abused, and he makes fun of the very next day. TheWho has some maturing to do!Quote from: ""TheWho""If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
He is also a CONFIRMED liar.
"Who" finds detailed accounts of sexual and physical abuse in captivity funny and then uses it in their posts to make jokes???
Talk about SLEEZY! :roll:
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 12:03:50 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The funny thing is that nobody reads this thread and the old man takes it so seriously.
Keep trolling the asshole, make him post is "numbers" a million times! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
::bwahaha:: ::bwahaha:: ::bwahaha2:: :rofl: :rofl: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: ::bwahaha2:: ::bwahaha2:: ::bwahaha:: ::bwahaha:: :rofl: :wave: ::bigsmilebounce::
Post by: Troll Control on May 18, 2007, 12:19:29 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
OK, so we all agree that this is where we're at with program deaths:Quote from: ""Guest""1980
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 7 Accidents, 0 Other----- 7 Total
1982
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, unknown----- 1 Total
1984
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 2 Total
1985
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1988
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1989
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 4 Total
1990
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 4 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1991
There were 1 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1992
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1993
There were 5 Homicides, 1 Suicide Attempt, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1994
There were 3 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 4 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 9 Total
1995
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1996
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1997
There were 7 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1998
There were 7 Homicides, 5 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other,Medical Neglect----- 15 Total
1999
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect ----- 6 Total
2000
There wre 9 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 13 Total
2001
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other, Medical Neglect----- 9 Total
2002
There were 4 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 2 Accidents, 2 Other----- 9 Total
2003
There were 3 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Unknown----- 6 Total
2004
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 6 Total
2005
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 5 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 12 Total
2006
There were 4 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 6 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 15 Total
2007
There were to date, 2 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect----- 4 Total
Grand Total----- 155 Known Deaths
Unknown Deaths, Accidents, Injuries, Assaults, Sexual inpropriaties, Hazing----- ????
http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp)
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html)
http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm (http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm)
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 12:24:49 PM
Bump.... Okay...here is the accurate count.... as I promised I will try to keep it in the current last 2 pages, the thread has been busy lately and it slipped back a ways
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 12:27:31 PM
(http://http://216.15.229.16/news/story_pics/1017home.jpg)
Post by: Troll Control on May 18, 2007, 12:30:39 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
We all agree on these numbers. This is where we're at:Quote from: ""Guest""OK, so we all agree that this is where we're at with program deaths:Quote from: ""Guest""1980
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 7 Accidents, 0 Other----- 7 Total
1982
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, unknown----- 1 Total
1984
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 2 Total
1985
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1988
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1989
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 4 Total
1990
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 4 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1991
There were 1 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1992
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1993
There were 5 Homicides, 1 Suicide Attempt, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1994
There were 3 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 4 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 9 Total
1995
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1996
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1997
There were 7 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1998
There were 7 Homicides, 5 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other,Medical Neglect----- 15 Total
1999
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect ----- 6 Total
2000
There wre 9 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 13 Total
2001
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other, Medical Neglect----- 9 Total
2002
There were 4 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 2 Accidents, 2 Other----- 9 Total
2003
There were 3 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Unknown----- 6 Total
2004
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 6 Total
2005
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 5 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 12 Total
2006
There were 4 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 6 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 15 Total
2007
There were to date, 2 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect----- 4 Total
Grand Total----- 155 Known Deaths
Unknown Deaths, Accidents, Injuries, Assaults, Sexual inpropriaties, Hazing----- ????
http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp)
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html)
http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm (http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm)
This is the best data available.
BTW, what's the deal with the asshole (Who)? He learned to post pics (congratulations, moron!) and now he can't post without putting one up. "Like JoJo the idiot circus boy with his pretty new pet!"
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 12:55:05 PM
Ya gotta admit this is a nice break on friday from just analyzing data... we should do this more often !!!
What was it Vonnegut said? "The only cure for maturity is laughter" or was it "Maturity, is a bitter dissapointment for which no remedy exists"?
anonwho
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 01:12:37 PM
Quote
This is the best data available.
BTW, what's the deal with the asshole (Who)? He learned to post pics (congratulations, moron!) and now he can't post without putting one up. "Like JoJo the idiot circus boy with his pretty new pet!"
:rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 01:13:31 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The Dueling matrices ---
Ya gotta admit this is a nice break on friday from just analyzing data... we should do this more often !!!
What was it Vonnegut said? "The only cure for maturity is laughter" or was it "Maturity, is a bitter dissapointment for which no remedy exists"?
anonwho
I think it goes , the only cure for maturity is posting messages that make fun of sexual abuse victims.. isn't that how it goes, TheWho?
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 01:14:16 PM
He admits he finds one of the most detailed and horrifying accounts "struck him as a little funny".
He copy/pasted the most graphic part of this survivor's testimony.
Then added his own comments in a sadistic attempt at humor. The
day after the survivor posted their original story.
TheWho posted in response to one guest as a way to "Get back at that guest" and "try to be funny".
He failed at both.
He did, however, manage to show his true nature, decide for yourself.
In an earlier post he claims he would believe a survivor if he knew nothing of the facility (as in this case).
A confirmed lie.
He will not just disbelieve a survivor. He will copy/paste their words.
Add his own jokes about sexual and physical abuse in captivity.
A truly disgusting spectacle of immaturity by TheWho.
The Who admits to finding testimony of sexual and physical abuse "a little funny" and is a confirmed liar.
Copy/pasted from this thread of post made Sat Apr 14, 2007
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
TheWho writes the next day Sun Apr 15, 2007 in response to a guest:
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80[/url]
Why would TheWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse? The comments int he parenthesis are TheWho's, the rest was copy/pasted from a survivor testimony posted one day earlier, detailing sexual abuse and other horrible forms of abuse.Quote from: ""TheWho""There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
He disgustingly uses the most graphic details of a survivor's abuse story to make jokes. He is making fun of a child abuse victim who is explaining they were sexually abused, and he makes fun of the very next day. TheWho has some maturing to do!Quote from: ""TheWho""If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
He is also a CONFIRMED liar.
"Who" finds detailed accounts of sexual and physical abuse in captivity funny and then uses it in their posts to make jokes???
Talk about SLEEZY! :roll:
Post by: Troll Control on May 18, 2007, 01:25:39 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Ha, Ha, Ha............. Sometimes this is too funny! You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha... Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity! You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha
This guy is SICK!
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 04:42:49 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
This is a busy place today...Ha,Ha,Ha... ya gotta love all this data flying around....dam the flaming cars are great!!!!
Bump.... Okay...here is the accurate count.... as I promised I will try to keep it in the current last 2 pages, the thread has been busy lately and it slipped back a ways
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 4 Other, ----- 5 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 2 Other, ----- 2 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 3 Other, ----- 3 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
RTC (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249131) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 1 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Boot Camp (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249132) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Other (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249133) --------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
RTC - Residential Treatment Center
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 04:55:46 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The Who has been posting here for a while. S/he claims to be a parent who had a daughter in ASR and SUWS.
I have scoured other program forums and can't find his/her story anywhere. Anyone seen it posted elsewhere?
I believe The Who is an Ed Con or a PR person for AEG.
S/he is on here all day long defending the industry, particularly ASR/SUWS. If you read his/her posts carefully you'll notice they aren't the typical PP style.
And now, a brief round of applause for the O.P.!
:lol: ::bwahaha:: ::bwahaha2:: :wave: ::rocker:: ::drummer:: :nworthy: ::ftard:: ::bwahaha:: ::cheers:: :wave: ::rocker:: ::nod:: :smokin: :P
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 07:30:42 PM
Post by: Troll Control on May 18, 2007, 07:52:47 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Here's another Sleazy Response from TheWho about a sexual abuse victim:Quote from: ""TheWho""
Ha, Ha, Ha............. Sometimes this is too funny! You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha... Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity! You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha
This guy is SICK!
Nasty. Who, do you have a bloody clown suit in your closet? You're a sick bastard.
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 09:08:29 PM
TheWho makes it seem like these kids do well and move onto college.
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 09:09:23 PM
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 09:13:38 PM
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 09:17:15 PM
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 09:22:20 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 09:23:04 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 09:23:56 PM
He admits he finds one of the most detailed and horrifying accounts "struck him as a little funny".
He copy/pasted the most graphic part of this survivor's testimony.
Then added his own comments in a sadistic attempt at humor. The
day after the survivor posted their original story.
TheWho posted in response to one guest as a way to "Get back at that guest" and "try to be funny".
He failed at both.
He did, however, manage to show his true nature, decide for yourself.
In an earlier post he claims he would believe a survivor if he knew nothing of the facility (as in this case).
A confirmed lie.
He will not just disbelieve a survivor. He will copy/paste their words.
Add his own jokes about sexual and physical abuse in captivity.
A truly disgusting spectacle of immaturity by TheWho.
The Who admits to finding testimony of sexual and physical abuse "a little funny" and is a confirmed liar.
Copy/pasted from this thread of post made Sat Apr 14, 2007
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
TheWho writes the next day Sun Apr 15, 2007 in response to a guest:
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80[/url]
Why would TheWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse? The comments int he parenthesis are TheWho's, the rest was copy/pasted from a survivor testimony posted one day earlier, detailing sexual abuse and other horrible forms of abuse.Quote from: ""TheWho""There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
He disgustingly uses the most graphic details of a survivor's abuse story to make jokes. He is making fun of a child abuse victim who is explaining they were sexually abused, and he makes fun of the very next day. TheWho has some maturing to do!Quote from: ""TheWho""If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
He is also a CONFIRMED liar.
"Who" finds detailed accounts of sexual and physical abuse in captivity funny and then uses it in their posts to make jokes???
Talk about SLEEZY! :roll:
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 09:26:07 PM
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 09:26:47 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 09:28:18 PM
Disgusting example of immaturity, and the type of parent who uses their services.
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 09:31:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 09:31:26 PM
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
Notice TheWho copy/pasted the most graphic part...
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 09:34:38 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 09:35:54 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
What kind of person reads Programmers testimony and finds it "a little funny"? :o
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
Notice TheWho copy/pasted the most graphic part...
::noway:: ::puke:: ::noway:: ::puke:: ::puke::
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 09:37:08 PM
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 09:37:09 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 09:38:14 PM
He admits he finds one of the most detailed and horrifying accounts "struck him as a little funny".
He copy/pasted the most graphic part of this survivor's testimony.
Then added his own comments in a sadistic attempt at humor. The
day after the survivor posted their original story.
TheWho posted in response to one guest as a way to "Get back at that guest" and "try to be funny".
He failed at both.
He did, however, manage to show his true nature, decide for yourself.
In an earlier post he claims he would believe a survivor if he knew nothing of the facility (as in this case).
A confirmed lie.
He will not just disbelieve a survivor. He will copy/paste their words.
Add his own jokes about sexual and physical abuse in captivity.
A truly disgusting spectacle of immaturity by TheWho.
The Who admits to finding testimony of sexual and physical abuse "a little funny" and is a confirmed liar.
Copy/pasted from this thread of post made Sat Apr 14, 2007
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
TheWho writes the next day Sun Apr 15, 2007 in response to a guest:
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80[/url]
Why would TheWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse? The comments int he parenthesis are TheWho's, the rest was copy/pasted from a survivor testimony posted one day earlier, detailing sexual abuse and other horrible forms of abuse.Quote from: ""TheWho""There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
He disgustingly uses the most graphic details of a survivor's abuse story to make jokes. He is making fun of a child abuse victim who is explaining they were sexually abused, and he makes fun of the very next day. TheWho has some maturing to do!Quote from: ""TheWho""If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
He is also a CONFIRMED liar.
Proof of TheWho's sick nature...
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 09:40:35 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 09:40:58 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
What kind of person reads Programmers testimony and finds it "a little funny"? :o
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
Notice TheWho copy/pasted the most graphic part...
TheWho is one creepy old man!
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. (my favorite)
Why is a kid being physically abused his favorite in a list of graphic details of sexual and other abuse??
" Who" makes jokes about this kind of stuff?
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 09:43:22 PM
At least she is respectful.
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 09:47:57 PM
Lets take a PLEDGE : We take down thewho and prove to everyone that graduating from a program doesnt mean squat. Us guys that only went for a few months and flipped it in our parents faces are just as smart as everyone else. Are you on? We will keep it up for a month, okay?
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 09:49:26 PM
Quote
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. (my favorite(added by theWho))
Had rocks and items thrown at me.
Locked in a hot, wooden box.
Forced to eat paper.
Forced to be naked for a week.
Thrown into the ocean during a typhoon. ( I think he would keep blowing back ,would'nt he?(added by theWho))
Kicked down a hill and had logs thrown on me.
Had a chair slammed into my gut.
Obtained more skin diseases than a POW in Vietnam.
Forced to carry "sandbags" of rocks up and down hills.
Quote from: ""TheWho""
There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
Recently asked about this, In his own words, he thinks sexual, physical and other forms of abuse is "a little funny".
:o
Read this story http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
Do you find any of it funny??
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 09:50:15 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 09:50:24 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 09:50:53 PM
Quote
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. (my favorite(added by theWho))
Had rocks and items thrown at me.
Locked in a hot, wooden box.
Forced to eat paper.
Forced to be naked for a week.
Thrown into the ocean during a typhoon. ( I think he would keep blowing back ,would'nt he?(added by theWho))
Kicked down a hill and had logs thrown on me.
Had a chair slammed into my gut.
Obtained more skin diseases than a POW in Vietnam.
Forced to carry "sandbags" of rocks up and down hills.
Quote from: ""TheWho""
There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
Recently asked about this, In his own words, he thinks sexual, physical and other forms of abuse is "a little funny".
:o
Read this story http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
Do you find any of it funny??
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 09:52:15 PM
He admits he finds one of the most detailed and horrifying accounts "struck him as a little funny".
He copy/pasted the most graphic part of this survivor's testimony.
Then added his own comments in a sadistic attempt at humor. The
day after the survivor posted their original story.
TheWho posted in response to one guest as a way to "Get back at that guest" and "try to be funny".
He failed at both.
He did, however, manage to show his true nature, decide for yourself.
In an earlier post he claims he would believe a survivor if he knew nothing of the facility (as in this case).
A confirmed lie.
He will not just disbelieve a survivor. He will copy/paste their words.
Add his own jokes about sexual and physical abuse in captivity.
A truly disgusting spectacle of immaturity by TheWho.
The Who admits to finding testimony of sexual and physical abuse "a little funny" and is a confirmed liar.
Copy/pasted from this thread of post made Sat Apr 14, 2007
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
TheWho writes the next day Sun Apr 15, 2007 in response to a guest:
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80[/url]
Why would TheWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse? The comments int he parenthesis are TheWho's, the rest was copy/pasted from a survivor testimony posted one day earlier, detailing sexual abuse and other horrible forms of abuse.Quote from: ""TheWho""There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
He disgustingly uses the most graphic details of a survivor's abuse story to make jokes. He is making fun of a child abuse victim who is explaining they were sexually abused, and he makes fun of the very next day. TheWho has some maturing to do!Quote from: ""TheWho""If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
He is also a CONFIRMED liar.
Proof of TheWho's sick nature...
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 09:54:43 PM
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 09:55:57 PM
Now try not to think about it and get some sleep.
see you tomorrow.
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 09:57:30 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Copy/pasted from a survivor testimony and altered to make fun of the poster by TheWho was this:QuoteNo food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. (my favorite(added by theWho))
Had rocks and items thrown at me.
Locked in a hot, wooden box.
Forced to eat paper.
Forced to be naked for a week.
Thrown into the ocean during a typhoon. ( I think he would keep blowing back ,would'nt he?(added by theWho))
Kicked down a hill and had logs thrown on me.
Had a chair slammed into my gut.
Obtained more skin diseases than a POW in Vietnam.
Forced to carry "sandbags" of rocks up and down hills.Quote from: ""TheWho""There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
Recently asked about this, In his own words, he thinks sexual, physical and other forms of abuse is "a little funny".
:o
Read this story http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
Do you find any of it funny??
What a pathetic display of immaturity, cruelty and cynicism by TheWho. No doubt he is an EdCon or program counselor.
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2007, 09:58:36 PM
Read this story http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
Do you find any of it funny??.[/quote]
Read it. No it's not funny.
Something is seriously wrong with Who.
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 10:21:03 PM
Bump.... Okay...here is the accurate count.... as I promised I will try to keep it in the current last 2 pages, the thread has been busy lately and it slipped back a ways
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 2 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: TheWho on May 18, 2007, 10:23:22 PM
I have stuff to do, but everyone carry on and have a good night. I will check with you over the weekend.
Post by: Troll Control on May 19, 2007, 04:03:52 PM
Post by: Troll Control on May 19, 2007, 04:05:30 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Here's another Sleazy Response from TheWho about a sexual abuse victim:Quote from: ""TheWho""
Ha, Ha, Ha............. Sometimes this is too funny! You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha... Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity! You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha
This guy is SICK!
Post by: TheWho on May 19, 2007, 04:35:52 PM
(http://http://www.dstressdoc.com/images/handling-anger.gif)
Post by: TheWho on May 19, 2007, 04:50:46 PM
TheWho was flying one of the planes on September 11, 2001. Nospank has pictures of him. It is documented, you know how reliable they are dont you? That SOB. I heard he was an Iranian too and enjoys torture. He is building a mini nuclear reactor in his basement and refuses to negotiate with anyone. Everyone knows he is only trying to dominate his neighborhood and spread fear, bastard.
I get worked up just thinking about, I cant drive my car thinking it puts money in his pocket, but then what am i going to do buy a camel? I would never sleep at night, what would i feed it. Friggin guy has all the angles covered. He knows it makes me furious.
I need to get some air
Lets discredit the SOB!
Post by: Troll Control on May 20, 2007, 06:14:20 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This is NOT FUNNY, TheWho! What is WRONG with you?Quote from: ""Guest""Here's another Sleazy Response from TheWho about a sexual abuse victim:Quote from: ""TheWho""
Ha, Ha, Ha............. Sometimes this is too funny! You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha... Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity! You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha
This guy is SICK!
this is beyond nasty!!! thewho has some real problems.
Post by: TheWho on May 21, 2007, 03:48:13 PM
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 2 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Troll Control on May 22, 2007, 10:55:17 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
OK, so we all agree that this is where we're at with program deaths:Quote from: ""Guest""1980
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 7 Accidents, 0 Other----- 7 Total
1982
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, unknown----- 1 Total
1984
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 2 Total
1985
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1988
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1989
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 4 Total
1990
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 4 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1991
There were 1 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1992
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1993
There were 5 Homicides, 1 Suicide Attempt, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1994
There were 3 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 4 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 9 Total
1995
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1996
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1997
There were 7 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1998
There were 7 Homicides, 5 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other,Medical Neglect----- 15 Total
1999
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect ----- 6 Total
2000
There wre 9 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 13 Total
2001
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other, Medical Neglect----- 9 Total
2002
There were 4 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 2 Accidents, 2 Other----- 9 Total
2003
There were 3 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Unknown----- 6 Total
2004
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 6 Total
2005
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 5 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 12 Total
2006
There were 4 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 6 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 15 Total
2007
There were to date, 2 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect----- 4 Total
Grand Total----- 155 Known Deaths
Unknown Deaths, Accidents, Injuries, Assaults, Sexual inpropriaties, Hazing----- ????
http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp)
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html)
http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm (http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm)
Post by: TheWho on May 22, 2007, 11:46:05 AM
As we discussed we will be focusing primarily on TBS's and wilderness. This makes more sense because the majority of parents are interested in this area as well.
TG -- We can address those questions after NCES releases last years data.
Post by: Troll Control on May 22, 2007, 12:09:38 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""This is NOT FUNNY, TheWho! What is WRONG with you?Quote from: ""Guest""Here's another Sleazy Response from TheWho about a sexual abuse victim:Quote from: ""TheWho""
Ha, Ha, Ha............. Sometimes this is too funny! You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha... Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity! You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha
This guy is SICK!
this is beyond nasty!!! thewho has some real problems.
Post by: TheWho on May 22, 2007, 08:55:02 PM
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 2 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Troll Control on May 23, 2007, 11:56:15 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
We all agree on these numbers. This is where we're at:Quote from: ""Guest""OK, so we all agree that this is where we're at with program deaths:Quote from: ""Guest""1980
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 7 Accidents, 0 Other----- 7 Total
1982
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, unknown----- 1 Total
1984
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 2 Total
1985
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1988
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1989
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 4 Total
1990
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 4 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1991
There were 1 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1992
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1993
There were 5 Homicides, 1 Suicide Attempt, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1994
There were 3 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 4 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 9 Total
1995
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1996
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1997
There were 7 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1998
There were 7 Homicides, 5 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other,Medical Neglect----- 15 Total
1999
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect ----- 6 Total
2000
There wre 9 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 13 Total
2001
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other, Medical Neglect----- 9 Total
2002
There were 4 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 2 Accidents, 2 Other----- 9 Total
2003
There were 3 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Unknown----- 6 Total
2004
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 6 Total
2005
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 5 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 12 Total
2006
There were 4 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 6 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 15 Total
2007
There were to date, 2 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect----- 4 Total
Grand Total----- 155 Known Deaths
Unknown Deaths, Accidents, Injuries, Assaults, Sexual inpropriaties, Hazing----- ????
http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp)
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html)
http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm (http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.htm)
Post by: TheWho on May 23, 2007, 09:46:57 PM
KG, We are on a pm flight to S.C. tomorrow, see ya in Harbour town after the tourney....
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 2 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Anonymous on May 23, 2007, 09:48:23 PM
Why does TheWho think 'its a little funny' when kids are sexually and physically abused? Don't you think that's disgusting?
Post by: Anonymous on May 23, 2007, 10:13:55 PM
Thank You for your patience.
The Who
1980
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 7 Accidents, 0 Other----- 7 Total
1982
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, unknown----- 1 Total
1984
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 2 Total
1985
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1988
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1989
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 4 Total
1990
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 4 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1991
There were 1 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1992
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1993
There were 5 Homicides, 1 Suicide Attempt, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1994
There were 3 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 4 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 9 Total
1995
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1996
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1997
There were 7 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1998
There were 7 Homicides, 5 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other,Medical Neglect----- 15 Total
1999
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect ----- 6 Total
2000
There wre 9 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 13 Total
2001
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other, Medical Neglect----- 9 Total
2002
There were 4 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 2 Accidents, 2 Other----- 9 Total
2003
There were 3 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Unknown----- 6 Total
2004
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 6 Total
2005
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 5 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 12 Total
2006
There were 4 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 6 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 15 Total
2007
There were to date, 2 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect----- 4 Total
Grand Total----- 155 Known Deaths
Unknown Deaths, Accidents, Injuries, Assaults, Sexual inpropriaties, Hazing----- ????
http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp)
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html)
http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.html (http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.html)
Post by: TheWho on May 27, 2007, 09:30:50 PM
Post by: TheWho on May 28, 2007, 10:24:32 PM
JJ, Could'nt make the second flight, ended up in Philly, set-up the second meeting we discussed....(6692,T)
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 2 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Anonymous on May 28, 2007, 10:31:28 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 28, 2007, 11:17:55 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
It is becoming increasingly clearer as more data comes in that TBS and wilderness programs provide a safe haven for kids who are at risk, especially as compared to the public sector (but I think we all knew that). It will be interesting (and a challenge, in my opinion) to come up with numbers that compares these figures to other areas such as boot camps and correctional institutes which seems to have a higher level of violence and lower success rates.
JJ, Could'nt make the second flight, ended up in Philly, set-up the second meeting we discussed....(6692,T)
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 2 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
The difference is that some or most of these children that enter into these programs do so against their will. They also do not get sentenced into the program. They did not have the opportunity to go to court and plead their case. The behavior modification technique is abusive and should be against the law. If a parent were to use this "technique" at home. They would be charged with abuse. The deaths that occur in these camps, academies, boarding schools could be prevented.
Who is JJ? Why did he miss his flight?
Post by: Anonymous on May 29, 2007, 12:26:24 AM
Quote
Who is JJ? Why did he miss his flight?
(http://http://www.tshizzle.com/tshirts/Other/dynomite-large.jpg)
Post by: TheWho on May 29, 2007, 09:25:48 AM
Quote
The difference is that some or most of these children that enter into these programs do so against their will.
Yes, most kids would opt to continue down the path they are on and may not realize there is danger ahead. How many kids come home and say “Mom, dad, I am struggling with life, heading down a destructive path and would like to get some professional perspective to help me get straightened out again”. Parents are responsible for ensuring their children are safe and are on a healthy path. They should be involved in all the decisions in their children’s lives until they become of legal age.
Quote
They also do not get sentenced into the program. They did not have the opportunity to go to court and plead their case.You may be thinking of boot camps or juvenile homes. The courts do get involved on some levels. The courts typically don’t send kids to TBS as a mandatory requirement. As far as court goes or pleading their case, I am not sure what this is referring to. The court system is set up to address situations involving public laws. They rarely get involved in domestic decisions in specific households. This would be a huge mistake in my opinion. Day to day decisions on how a parents chooses to raise their child should be independent from public discretion. There are fringe and borderline cult groups, which flourish in the US, like nospank and others who try to get inside the home and dictate how to raise your child, but it is a huge mistake to allow public opinion, court systems, and religious groups etc. to dictate or determine what is right or wrong for each family. These are personal and family decisions and should be kept this way.
Quote
The behavior modification technique is abusive and should be against the law. If a parent were to use this "technique" at home. They would be charged with abuse. The deaths that occur in these camps, academies, boarding schools could be prevented.
Again I think you may be referring to boot camps or Juvenile homes. TBS's are Therapeutic and just the opposite of abusive. They provide a safe environment for a child to grow and adjust.
The majority of the deaths have been prevented and these schools continue to work on improving their success with these children. Although, compared with the public sector the TBS have proved to be extremely successful.
There are a few statistical matrices which have, so far, concluded this:
TBS, Wilderness as compared to Public sector (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=263267#263267)
Entire Mental Health industry (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=262553#262553)
Quote
Who is JJ? Why did he miss his flight?
Ha,Ha,Ha Yes, JJ, why did you miss your flight? I am interested too. You can respond as a “guest”, no one will know who you are !
Post by: Anonymous on May 29, 2007, 09:36:21 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The real question is:
Why does TheWho think 'its a little funny' when kids are sexually and physically abused? Don't you think that's disgusting?
Post by: RobertBruce on May 29, 2007, 11:56:58 AM
Quote
How many kids come home and say “Mom, dad, I am struggling with life, heading down a destructive path and would like to get some professional perspective to help me get straightened out again”.
Granted. But how many of the kids that are locked up in these places actually need to be there?
Quote
The courts do get involved on some levels. The courts typically don’t send kids to TBS as a mandatory requirement.
This is completly and utterly false. Kids are court ordered to these programs all the time. Many of them pretend otherwise or try and play with semantics but the facts in the matter remain the same.
Also where are you getting your current information regarding kids deaths? I'm looking for a link not a vauge answer.
Post by: TheWho on May 29, 2007, 01:44:27 PM
Quote
Granted. But how many of the kids that are locked up in these places actually need to be there?
You should clarify that we should not be recommending sending kids to anyplace where they lock the kids up. When choosing a school for your children, get familiar with how discipline is handled, talk to parents who had kids that went thru the process and ask lots of questions. I am sure there are schools out there which lock kids up, but they are few and far between.
Post by: Troll Control on May 29, 2007, 01:59:26 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This is NOT FUNNY, TheWho! What is WRONG with you?Quote from: ""Guest""Here's another Sleazy Response from TheWho about a sexual abuse victim:Quote from: ""TheWho""
Ha, Ha, Ha............. Sometimes this is too funny! You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha... Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity! You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha
This guy is SICK!
Yes, but he tries to portray himself as a "child advocate" which has become a synonym in the TBs industry for "child abuser"...
Anyone reading TheWho's nonsense should put it in context by reading his other posts, especially the ones where he says it's perfectly acceptable to "make up data" :roll:
Post by: TheWho on May 29, 2007, 02:56:53 PM
Don’t be persuaded by people who say “all” schools are good or those who say “All” schools are bad. This should be a red flag that they have an agenda.
Post by: Anonymous on May 29, 2007, 03:04:52 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on May 29, 2007, 03:07:49 PM
Quote
You should clarify that we should not be recommending sending kids to anyplace where they lock the kids up. When choosing a school for your children, get familiar with how discipline is handled, talk to parents who had kids that went thru the process and ask lots of questions. I am sure there are schools out there which lock kids up, but they are few and far between.
Again you're mistaken, you actually in this post go so far as to pretend parents would know more then the kids.
Don't talk to parents, most of the time they have no clue what the kids went through and wouldnt accept it if the kids told them.
Who, simply because a program doesnt have fences and chains in no way suggest the kids aren't locked up.
You have no frame of reference as you were never locked up in one of these places, as many of us were.
Post by: TheWho on May 29, 2007, 03:48:12 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteYou should clarify that we should not be recommending sending kids to anyplace where they lock the kids up. When choosing a school for your children, get familiar with how discipline is handled, talk to parents who had kids that went thru the process and ask lots of questions. I am sure there are schools out there which lock kids up, but they are few and far between.
Again you're mistaken, you actually in this post go so far as to pretend parents would know more then the kids.
Don't talk to parents, most of the time they have no clue what the kids went through and wouldnt accept it if the kids told them.
Who, simply because a program doesnt have fences and chains in no way suggest the kids aren't locked up.
You have no frame of reference as you were never locked up in one of these places, as many of us were.
This an example of what you will run into when gathering information (Red Flag). Beware of people telling you who you should or should not talk to. Talk to as many people as possible.
Post by: RobertBruce on May 29, 2007, 04:02:13 PM
:roll:
That's not making a whole lot of sense. Why not just save yourself the trouble of seeking out parents and instead turn to some guy off the street who's never even heard of the program youre talking about.
You'd get the same amount of accurate information from either source.
Post by: TheWho on May 29, 2007, 05:09:19 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
So you're arguing that people seeking information should turn to those who have no clue what really goes on at these places?
:roll:
That's not making a whole lot of sense. Why not just save yourself the trouble of seeking out parents and instead turn to some guy off the street who's never even heard of the program youre talking about.
You'd get the same amount of accurate information from either source.
?
Post by: Anonymous on May 29, 2007, 05:16:48 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I take my advice from parents who find children being sexually and physically abused 'a little funny', they usually show the most maturity when discussing placement.
You should ask TheWho for advice, he thinks sexual and physical abuse is "a little funny".
Post by: Anonymous on May 29, 2007, 06:52:56 PM
He admits he finds one of the most detailed and horrifying accounts "struck him as a little funny".
He copy/pasted the most graphic part of this survivor's testimony.
Then added his own comments in a sadistic attempt at humor. The
day after the survivor posted their original story.
TheWho posted in response to one guest as a way to "Get back at that guest" and "try to be funny".
He failed at both.
He did, however, manage to show his true nature, decide for yourself.
In an earlier post he claims he would believe a survivor if he knew nothing of the facility (as in this case).
A confirmed lie.
He will not just disbelieve a survivor. He will copy/paste their words.
Add his own jokes about sexual and physical abuse in captivity.
A truly disgusting spectacle of immaturity by TheWho.
The Who admits to finding testimony of sexual and physical abuse "a little funny" and is a confirmed liar.
Copy/pasted from this thread of post made Sat Apr 14, 2007
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
TheWho writes the next day Sun Apr 15, 2007 in response to a guest:
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80[/url]
Why would TheWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse? The comments int he parenthesis are TheWho's, the rest was copy/pasted from a survivor testimony posted one day earlier, detailing sexual abuse and other horrible forms of abuse.Quote from: ""TheWho""There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
He disgustingly uses the most graphic details of a survivor's abuse story to make jokes. He is making fun of a child abuse victim who is explaining they were sexually abused, and he makes fun of the very next day. TheWho has some maturing to do!Quote from: ""TheWho""If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
He is also a CONFIRMED liar.
"Who" finds detailed accounts of sexual and physical abuse in captivity funny and then uses it in their posts to make jokes???
Talk about SLEEZY! :roll:
Post by: TheWho on May 29, 2007, 08:33:43 PM
Quote
"Who" finds detailed accounts of sexual and physical abuse in captivity funny and then uses it in their posts to make jokes???
Talk about SLEEZY!
I like the “in captivity” spin. This adds a Jacque Cousteau flavor to the whole Therapeutic boarding school discussion… only on fornits !! …Ha,Ha,… you gotta love this. The next step would be a safari theme, where we hunt kids down and place them in isolation until they are tame… this is priceless. I should go away more often.
The bad news is I am getting attacked from all angles…Ha,Ha,Ha, but all kidding aside…. some of them are really gross and uncalled for but we have to bear with it. The good news is that this wouldn’t be happening (we wouldn’t be getting any attention) unless we were making an effect and based on my email activity I would have to say parental contacts have increased sharply over the past 3 months.
Like I have said all along trust your instincts and if anyone gives you advice in absolutes (i.e. all schools are good or all schools are bad) you should view this as a red flag. Try to get as much information as you can. Talk to your childs therapist, school counselor, talk to parents who had kids graduate from the schools you are considering and make an informed and balanced decision. These people have had experience with the system and can answer your specific questions.
To PJ and Jena L.:
Get a user name if you want to PM me real time..I don’t recommend specific schools... screw the discussion you are going in circles, you can always get a new counselor for Maggie for a second opinion ...but in the mean time look at some of the posts here and/or contact the people I gave you, but I do recommend that you don’t sit on this.
.... Who
Post by: RobertBruce on May 29, 2007, 08:44:31 PM
Quote
Try to get as much information as you can. Talk to your childs therapist, school counselor, talk to parents who had kids graduate from the schools you are considering and make an informed and balanced decision. These people have had experience with the system and can answer your specific questions.
Notice he never suggest "talk to your child". There inlies the difference between those of us who know what these places are and recognize the truths about them, and people like the Who, who neither want nor have a clue.
Post by: TheWho on May 29, 2007, 09:02:20 PM
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
QuoteTry to get as much information as you can. Talk to your childs therapist, school counselor, talk to parents who had kids graduate from the schools you are considering and make an informed and balanced decision. These people have had experience with the system and can answer your specific questions.
Notice he never suggest "talk to your child". There inlies the difference between those of us who know what these places are and recognize the truths about them, and people like the Who, who neither want nor have a clue.
What the hell does "inlies" mean? I may not always agree with thewho, but you need to communicate a little better than that. Your response doesnt make any sense. It sounds like you are saying that some kids that go to the schools lie about what happens there to get attention or try to make the schools look bad because they are pissed off at their parents.
I am sure this happens sometimes but it is off topic. Thewho was talking about ways to get sound/unbiased advice for their kids.
Post by: Anonymous on May 29, 2007, 09:02:27 PM
Post by: TheWho on May 29, 2007, 09:11:21 PM
Quote
Rarely have I seen such immature and disgusting behavior,
Jena, you must be new here to fornits, keep reading.
Post by: Deborah on May 29, 2007, 10:49:20 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
What the hell does "inlies" mean? I may not always agree with thewho,
::roflmao::
Lonely? Boo Who
Post by: RobertBruce on May 30, 2007, 10:49:47 AM
Quote
What the hell does "inlies" mean? I may not always agree with thewho, but you need to communicate a little better than that. Your response doesnt make any sense. It sounds like you are saying that some kids that go to the schools lie about what happens there to get attention or try to make the schools look bad because they are pissed off at their parents.
I am sure this happens sometimes but it is off topic. Thewho was talking about ways to get sound/unbiased advice for their kids.
Talking about yourself in the 3rd person again Who? I told you this isnt a sign of strong mental health. Your confusion stems from a simple typo, it should read "therein lies", rather than "there inlies". Sorry to have confused you. To clear up any further frustration you might have "therein lies" doesnt have anything to do with lies as in the kind you tell all the time. Instead it means " here is where the problem is" as in you telling people seeking information that they should talk to anyone and everyone except the kids.
Something that again makes no sense whatsoever.
Post by: TheWho on May 30, 2007, 11:41:49 AM
Post by: TheWho on May 30, 2007, 12:51:27 PM
Quote
....a simple typo, it should read "therein lies", rather than "there inlies". Sorry to have confused you. .......
Thank you for clearing that up for all of us. We are not judging you but you need to be more careful and the fact that you logged in and admit it is a big first step.
Spelling Nazi
(http://http://www.transbuddha.com/images/uploads/shamed.jpg)
Post by: RobertBruce on May 30, 2007, 01:21:47 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Talking to kids is also recommended. When we were considering a school for my daughter we walked around the campus of ASR freely and had the opportunity to speak with many different students. I would recommend spending a few hours at the school to get a feel for the people and staff. Ask lots of questions and if you feel it is a good fit for your child then ask to speak with some parents who had children who were in the program. Typically the family is in crisis at this point but taking a few extra days to research and get yourself comfortable with choosing the right school is well worth it.
Of course you say that now, you weren't concerned with it before. Why is that?
Post by: Anonymous on May 30, 2007, 01:50:49 PM
Post by: Anonymous on May 30, 2007, 09:25:31 PM
Please bear with me for this investigation!
The Who
1980
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 7 Accidents, 0 Other----- 7 Total
1982
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, unknown----- 1 Total
1984
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 2 Total
1985
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1988
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1989
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 4 Total
1990
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 4 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1991
There were 1 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1992
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1993
There were 5 Homicides, 1 Suicide Attempt, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1994
There were 3 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 4 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 9 Total
1995
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1996
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1997
There were 7 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1998
There were 7 Homicides, 5 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other,Medical Neglect----- 15 Total
1999
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect ----- 6 Total
2000
There wre 9 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 13 Total
2001
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other, Medical Neglect----- 9 Total
2002
There were 4 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 2 Accidents, 2 Other----- 9 Total
2003
There were 3 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Unknown----- 6 Total
2004
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 6 Total
2005
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 5 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 12 Total
2006
There were 4 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 6 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 15 Total
2007
There were to date, 2 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect----- 4 Total
Grand Total----- 155 Known Deaths
Unknown Deaths, Accidents, Injuries, Assaults, Sexual inpropriaties, Hazing----- ????
http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp)
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html)
http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.html (http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.html)
Post by: TheWho on May 30, 2007, 09:39:45 PM
It is becoming increasingly clearer as more data comes in that TBS and wilderness programs provide a safe haven for kids who are at risk, especially as compared to the public sector (but I think we all knew that). It will be interesting (and a challenge, in my opinion) to come up with numbers that compares these figures to other areas such as boot camps and correctional institutes which seems to have a higher level of violence and lower success rates.
Check out this list for a list of all activity inclucing mental hospitals for those who are interested:
Mental hospitals and juvenile placements (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=262553#262553)
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 2 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Anonymous on May 30, 2007, 09:47:19 PM
Give me back my account!
I'm certain it is one of three people perpetuating this fraud. It is either Bob, DJ, or TSW. They are known for their dirty tricks.
Isn't it about time this forum stood up and did the right thing?
Again the real numbers:
1980
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 7 Accidents, 0 Other----- 7 Total
1982
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, unknown----- 1 Total
1984
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 2 Total
1985
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1988
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1989
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 4 Total
1990
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 4 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1991
There were 1 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1992
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1993
There were 5 Homicides, 1 Suicide Attempt, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1994
There were 3 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 4 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 9 Total
1995
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1996
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1997
There were 7 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1998
There were 7 Homicides, 5 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other,Medical Neglect----- 15 Total
1999
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect ----- 6 Total
2000
There wre 9 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 13 Total
2001
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other, Medical Neglect----- 9 Total
2002
There were 4 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 2 Accidents, 2 Other----- 9 Total
2003
There were 3 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Unknown----- 6 Total
2004
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 6 Total
2005
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 5 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 12 Total
2006
There were 4 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 6 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 15 Total
2007
There were to date, 2 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect----- 4 Total
Grand Total----- 155 Known Deaths
Unknown Deaths, Accidents, Injuries, Assaults, Sexual inpropriaties, Hazing----- ????
http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp)
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html)
http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.html (http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.html)
Post by: TheWho on May 31, 2007, 12:51:41 PM
Check out this linkfor a list of all activity including mental hospitals for those who are interested:
Mental hospitals and juvenile placements (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=262553#262553)
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 2 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Troll Control on May 31, 2007, 01:02:14 PM
Quote from: ""The Who""
I believe someone has hacked my account. They keep posting that list of bogus numbers. I do want children to be able to get the help they need from a devestating path in life, but we shouldn't ignore the dangers that exist. Here is a revised list of stats that reflect the revised numbers for TBS related deaths.
Please bear with me for this investigation!
The Who
1980
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 7 Accidents, 0 Other----- 7 Total
1982
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, unknown----- 1 Total
1984
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 2 Total
1985
There were 0 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1988
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1989
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 4 Total
1990
There were 4 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 4 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1991
There were 1 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 1 Total
1992
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1993
There were 5 Homicides, 1 Suicide Attempt, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1994
There were 3 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 4 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 9 Total
1995
There were 2 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 3 Total
1996
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 5 Total
1997
There were 7 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 0 Other----- 8 Total
1998
There were 7 Homicides, 5 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other,Medical Neglect----- 15 Total
1999
There were 5 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect ----- 6 Total
2000
There wre 9 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 0 Other----- 13 Total
2001
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 3 Other, Medical Neglect----- 9 Total
2002
There were 4 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 2 Accidents, 2 Other----- 9 Total
2003
There were 3 Homicides, 0 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Unknown----- 6 Total
2004
There were 1 Homicides, 2 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 2 Other, Medical Neglect----- 6 Total
2005
There were 3 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 5 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 12 Total
2006
There were 4 Homicides, 3 Suicides, 1 Accidents, 6 Other, Medical Neglect, Unknown----- 15 Total
2007
There were to date, 2 Homicides, 1 Suicides, 0 Accidents, 1 Other, Medical Neglect----- 4 Total
Grand Total----- 155 Known Deaths
Unknown Deaths, Accidents, Injuries, Assaults, Sexual inpropriaties, Hazing----- ????
http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/deaths.asp)
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/INMEMORIAM.html)
http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.html (http://www.caica.org/NEWS%20Deaths%20Main.html)
Post by: Troll Control on May 31, 2007, 02:03:28 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: ""Guest""This is NOT FUNNY, TheWho! What is WRONG with you?Quote from: ""Guest""Here's another Sleazy Response from TheWho about a sexual abuse victim:Yes, but he tries to portray himself as a "child advocate" which has become a synonym in the TBs industry for "child abuser"...Quote from: ""TheWho""
Ha, Ha, Ha............. Sometimes this is too funny! You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha... Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity! You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha
This guy is SICK!
Anyone reading TheWho's nonsense should put it in context by reading his other posts, especially the ones where he says it's perfectly acceptable to "make up data"
Why would TheWho try to blame his demented comments on RB who has never said anything remotely resembling the trash that TheWho posts daily? TheWho really is a sick individual and needs a lot of help.
One of the people he PM's with here (asked to remain anon) forwarded this to me in disgust after one of TheWho's PM's to her:Quote from: ""TheWho""
Wow, I really got those guys stirred up today! Sometimes I wonder why I even bother to respond, but these kids claiming to have been "victimized" or "abused" are really just exagerating things to manipulate parents into not seeking help. 99% of that stuff never even happened (lies) and the other 1% is overblown (manipulation). One thing I will admit though is that when I was visiting my daughter at ASR there were some "troubled girls" there who were coming on to me (I guess in an attempt to try to get me to take them out of there -manipulation- which I would never do). Looking back, some of them were pretty hot and if they liked sex, it wouldn't be "abuse" to give it to them! I definitely thought about it and bet that the counselors did too!
Back on topic...Ha, Ha, Ha... I will be updating the matrices today so you can pass them on to your colleagues. And thanks again for your advice. Fight fire with fire! I'm going to do it to "Bob" today!
I guess this explains a few things, huh? TheWho is a sick-o and a loser with nothing better to do than try to control and/or abuse kids.
Post by: TheWho on May 31, 2007, 02:37:54 PM
Hope it isnt because my data indicates TBS's and wilderness programs to be safe. The battle of the matrices as we say!! Ha,Ha,Ha
You guys will write anything to keep this thread at the top, good show..... Keep it going
...
Post by: Troll Control on May 31, 2007, 03:37:31 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""This is NOT FUNNY, TheWho! What is WRONG with you?Quote from: ""Guest""Here's another Sleazy Response from TheWho about a sexual abuse victim:Yes, but he tries to portray himself as a "child advocate" which has become a synonym in the TBs industry for "child abuser"...Quote from: ""TheWho""
Ha, Ha, Ha............. Sometimes this is too funny! You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha... Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity! You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha
This guy is SICK!
Anyone reading TheWho's nonsense should put it in context by reading his other posts, especially the ones where he says it's perfectly acceptable to "make up data"
Why would TheWho try to blame his demented comments on RB who has never said anything remotely resembling the trash that TheWho posts daily? TheWho really is a sick individual and needs a lot of help.
One of the people he PM's with here (asked to remain anon) forwarded this to me in disgust after one of TheWho's PM's to her:Quote from: ""TheWho""
Wow, I really got those guys stirred up today! Sometimes I wonder why I even bother to respond, but these kids claiming to have been "victimized" or "abused" are really just exagerating things to manipulate parents into not seeking help. 99% of that stuff never even happened (lies) and the other 1% is overblown (manipulation). One thing I will admit though is that when I was visiting my daughter at ASR there were some "troubled girls" there who were coming on to me (I guess in an attempt to try to get me to take them out of there -manipulation- which I would never do). Looking back, some of them were pretty hot and if they liked sex, it wouldn't be "abuse" to give it to them! I definitely thought about it and bet that the counselors did too!
Back on topic...Ha, Ha, Ha... I will be updating the matrices today so you can pass them on to your colleagues. And thanks again for your advice. Fight fire with fire! I'm going to do it to "Bob" today!
I guess this explains a few things, huh? TheWho is a sick-o and a loser with nothing better to do than try to control and/or abuse kids.
I guess the people that TheWho thought he had the confidence of have bailed on him too. I see he's trying to avoid his nasty comments, but I'm glad people keep his disgusting comments at the front of this thread because it tells a lot about his guy.
Post by: RobertBruce on May 31, 2007, 06:13:55 PM
Post by: TheWho on May 31, 2007, 06:49:11 PM
It is becoming increasingly clearer as more data comes in that TBS and wilderness programs provide a safe haven for kids who are at risk, especially as compared to the public sector (but I think we all knew that). It will be interesting (and a challenge, in my opinion) to come up with numbers that compares these figures to other areas such as boot camps and correctional institutes which seems to have a higher level of violence and lower success rates.
Check out this linkfor a list of all activity including mental hospitals for those who are interested:
Mental hospitals and juvenile placements (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=262553#262553)
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 2 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Anonymous on May 31, 2007, 08:07:18 PM
Post by: TheWho on May 31, 2007, 08:18:10 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This is like a scientific observation on the insanity of program parents, TheWho being the lab subject. :rofl:
I am beginning to think you are right, these people are nuts. Everyone should try to focus on helping kids out instead of beating up on each other. They should take this to their own thread and have it out.
Post by: Anonymous on May 31, 2007, 09:44:36 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
If theWho's daughter had been sexually and physically abused in a program, would he thought it "a little funny" then when she recounts her story? I wonder...
I wonder how the father of Programmer#5 would react knowing that TheWho was making fun of his kid like that.
Maybe he wouldn't care, like theWho, that strangers humiliate and tease his daughter after she is abused.
Post by: TheWho on May 31, 2007, 09:49:29 PM
anon who
Post by: Troll Control on June 01, 2007, 09:15:02 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""This is NOT FUNNY, TheWho! What is WRONG with you?Quote from: ""Guest""Here's another Sleazy Response from TheWho about a sexual abuse victim:Yes, but he tries to portray himself as a "child advocate" which has become a synonym in the TBs industry for "child abuser"...Quote from: ""TheWho""
Ha, Ha, Ha............. Sometimes this is too funny! You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha... Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity! You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha
This guy is SICK!
Anyone reading TheWho's nonsense should put it in context by reading his other posts, especially the ones where he says it's perfectly acceptable to "make up data"
Why would TheWho try to blame his demented comments on RB who has never said anything remotely resembling the trash that TheWho posts daily? TheWho really is a sick individual and needs a lot of help.
One of the people he PM's with here (asked to remain anon) forwarded this to me in disgust after one of TheWho's PM's to her:Quote from: ""TheWho""
Wow, I really got those guys stirred up today! Sometimes I wonder why I even bother to respond, but these kids claiming to have been "victimized" or "abused" are really just exagerating things to manipulate parents into not seeking help. 99% of that stuff never even happened (lies) and the other 1% is overblown (manipulation). One thing I will admit though is that when I was visiting my daughter at ASR there were some "troubled girls" there who were coming on to me (I guess in an attempt to try to get me to take them out of there -manipulation- which I would never do). Looking back, some of them were pretty hot and if they liked sex, it wouldn't be "abuse" to give it to them! I definitely thought about it and bet that the counselors did too!
Back on topic...Ha, Ha, Ha... I will be updating the matrices today so you can pass them on to your colleagues. And thanks again for your advice. Fight fire with fire! I'm going to do it to "Bob" today!
I guess this explains a few things, huh? TheWho is a sick-o and a loser with nothing better to do than try to control and/or abuse kids.
New lows for TheWho. Sad? Yes. Surprising? No, not at all.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 01, 2007, 10:17:59 AM
Youre also a complete joke and hysterical to watch. I can easily imagine the Benny Hill music playing as you scurry all over the board trying to edit your post and blame them on me, then quickly return and offer yourself support.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 01, 2007, 10:36:20 AM
Post by: Anonymous on June 01, 2007, 10:57:18 AM
Getting all worked up about him wont help
nor will giving his silly little made up charts enough credence to actually comment
JUST IGNORE HIM AND HE MAY GO AWAY
This is painful to watch
it obscures real info and debate
It demeans the site
PLEASE PLEASE DONT GIVE THIS THREAD ANY FURTHER ATTENTION
whenever the man posts ignore it
:flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:
Post by: RobertBruce on June 01, 2007, 11:15:33 AM
Cindy if you feel like discussing the matter like a big boy, you may of course always PM me.
Till then take care.
Post by: TheWho on June 01, 2007, 11:16:54 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
The kids seem to be having fun today.....
It is becoming increasingly clearer as more data comes in that TBS and wilderness programs provide a safe haven for kids who are at risk, especially as compared to the public sector (but I think we all knew that). It will be interesting (and a challenge, in my opinion) to come up with numbers that compares these figures to other areas such as boot camps and correctional institutes which seems to have a higher level of violence and lower success rates.
Check out this linkfor a list of all activity including mental hospitals for those who are interested:
Mental hospitals and juvenile placements (http://http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=262553#262553)
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , X Restraint, 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 1 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, 0 accidental, 1 Other, ----- 2 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , X Other, 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , X Other, 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , X Other, 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, 0 accidental, 0 Other, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Troll Control on June 01, 2007, 01:14:33 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""This is NOT FUNNY, TheWho! What is WRONG with you?Quote from: ""Guest""Here's another Sleazy Response from TheWho about a sexual abuse victim:Yes, but he tries to portray himself as a "child advocate" which has become a synonym in the TBs industry for "child abuser"...Quote from: ""TheWho""
Ha, Ha, Ha............. Sometimes this is too funny! You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha... Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity! You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha
This guy is SICK!
Anyone reading TheWho's nonsense should put it in context by reading his other posts, especially the ones where he says it's perfectly acceptable to "make up data"
Why would TheWho try to blame his demented comments on RB who has never said anything remotely resembling the trash that TheWho posts daily? TheWho really is a sick individual and needs a lot of help.
One of the people he PM's with here (asked to remain anon) forwarded this to me in disgust after one of TheWho's PM's to her:Quote from: ""TheWho""
Wow, I really got those guys stirred up today! Sometimes I wonder why I even bother to respond, but these kids claiming to have been "victimized" or "abused" are really just exagerating things to manipulate parents into not seeking help. 99% of that stuff never even happened (lies) and the other 1% is overblown (manipulation). One thing I will admit though is that when I was visiting my daughter at ASR there were some "troubled girls" there who were coming on to me (I guess in an attempt to try to get me to take them out of there -manipulation- which I would never do). Looking back, some of them were pretty hot and if they liked sex, it wouldn't be "abuse" to give it to them! I definitely thought about it and bet that the counselors did too!
Back on topic...Ha, Ha, Ha... I will be updating the matrices today so you can pass them on to your colleagues. And thanks again for your advice. Fight fire with fire! I'm going to do it to "Bob" today!
I guess this explains a few things, huh? TheWho is a sick-o and a loser with nothing better to do than try to control and/or abuse kids.
New lows for TheWho. Sad? Yes. Surprising? No, not at all.
Post by: TheWho. on June 01, 2007, 01:49:57 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 01, 2007, 01:53:55 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho.""
I hope the kids don't get too mad at us. Ha, ha, ha, I'm just having a bit of fun. The thing we all n33d to keep in mind is that these kids deserve what they get. So what if a couple of them died? The point is that I get my referal fees.
you're a fucking psycho! ha, ha, ha....
Post by: TheWho. on June 01, 2007, 01:57:10 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 01, 2007, 02:01:23 PM
now get outrageous or get lost!
Post by: TheWho. on June 01, 2007, 02:11:40 PM
We're sorry if some of you don't like those facts but we can't change them. They are what they are and since we all like them they stand. Now some of you want to be little jokesters and try to create new matrices with all these other kids that no one on my committee approved. If they don't fit the parameters then they arent going on our list.
What's it gonna take for you all to get it through your heads? I decide if a kids death counts, and if it wasnt in public school it doesnt count.
You all keep crying over these deliquits dying, but like I said in the private message. 99% of the kids claims, never happened. If they did happen at they were either deserved or exageratted. Besides who among you doesnt find kids being duct taped forced to eat poo poo and left in boxes to be really funny? I used to do it to my daughter all the time! Its time some of you started being honest and agreed with us about whats funny.
Post by: Troll Control on June 01, 2007, 02:37:49 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 01, 2007, 03:02:08 PM
Keep it going....
Post by: TheWho. on June 01, 2007, 03:08:25 PM
Besides the fact of the matter is that my matrix is so perfect and flawless there is no n33d for any other threads to even exist.
Deborah please get to work at once deleting everything but what I've written.
You should do this as recompense for all the times you edited or deleted my posts without my permission.
Post by: Froderik on June 01, 2007, 04:19:24 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 01, 2007, 04:34:48 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Let's go for 300 pages, I know we can do it! :rofl:
Now that I can log in as TheWho we dont need him anymore. I can write all the bull myself and keep this thread going.
Post by: Froderik on June 01, 2007, 04:36:16 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on June 01, 2007, 05:02:48 PM
Himself-a child abuse apologist and propoganda author.
His own impersonator-a child abuse apologist and propoganda author.
A hyde student-a child with a drug problem.
Several guest posters-Routinely come out of the woodwork to show their support for Who. All posting from same ip. Several of these personalities hate Who.
Myself-a TBS survivor who has embarrassed him several times over. Who is currently making a sad attempt to attribute statements he made to me.
I know there's not much in there to get in the way but its gotta be getting a little crowded in your head there doesnt it Cindy? How many people do you have floating around up there?
Post by: Antigen on June 01, 2007, 05:16:52 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 01, 2007, 07:46:32 PM
Post by: psy on June 01, 2007, 11:15:28 PM
Post by: Nihilanthic on June 01, 2007, 11:37:27 PM
Post by: try another castle on June 02, 2007, 05:29:37 AM
Post by: Troll Control on July 25, 2007, 08:47:06 AM
WHO is that masked program pimp? :roll:
Post by: Anonymous on July 25, 2007, 01:02:42 PM
Post by: Froderik on July 25, 2007, 01:27:02 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 25, 2007, 01:45:47 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 25, 2007, 07:52:41 PM
Cool
Post by: TheWho on July 25, 2007, 08:00:24 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2007, 01:11:49 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2007, 08:29:28 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""This is NOT FUNNY, TheWho! What is WRONG with you?Quote from: ""Guest""Here's another Sleazy Response from TheWho about a sexual abuse victim:Yes, but he tries to portray himself as a "child advocate" which has become a synonym in the TBs industry for "child abuser"...Quote from: ""TheWho""
Ha, Ha, Ha............. Sometimes this is too funny! You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha... Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity! You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha
This guy is SICK!
Anyone reading TheWho's nonsense should put it in context by reading his other posts, especially the ones where he says it's perfectly acceptable to "make up data"
Why would TheWho try to blame his demented comments on RB who has never said anything remotely resembling the trash that TheWho posts daily? TheWho really is a sick individual and needs a lot of help.
One of the people he PM's with here (asked to remain anon) forwarded this to me in disgust after one of TheWho's PM's to her:Quote from: ""TheWho""
Wow, I really got those guys stirred up today! Sometimes I wonder why I even bother to respond, but these kids claiming to have been "victimized" or "abused" are really just exagerating things to manipulate parents into not seeking help. 99% of that stuff never even happened (lies) and the other 1% is overblown (manipulation). One thing I will admit though is that when I was visiting my daughter at ASR there were some "troubled girls" there who were coming on to me (I guess in an attempt to try to get me to take them out of there -manipulation- which I would never do). Looking back, some of them were pretty hot and if they liked sex, it wouldn't be "abuse" to give it to them! I definitely thought about it and bet that the counselors did too!
Back on topic...Ha, Ha, Ha... I will be updating the matrices today so you can pass them on to your colleagues. And thanks again for your advice. Fight fire with fire! I'm going to do it to "Bob" today!
I guess this explains a few things, huh? TheWho is a sick-o and a loser with nothing better to do than try to control and/or abuse kids.
New lows for TheWho. Sad? Yes. Surprising? No, not at all.
The truth about TheWhore laid bare. He thinks kids getting abused is funny.
Post by: TheWho on December 08, 2007, 03:51:27 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""This is NOT FUNNY, RobertBruce! What is WRONG with you?Quote from: ""Guest""Here's another Sleazy Response from RobertBruce about a sexual abuse victim:Yes, but he tries to portray himself as a "survivor" which has become a synonym in the TBs industry for "loser"...Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Ha, Ha, Ha............. Sometimes this is too funny! You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha... Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity! You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha
This guy is SICK!
Anyone reading RobertBruce's nonsense should put it in context by reading his other posts, especially the ones where he says it's perfectly acceptable to "make up abuse stories"
Why would RobertBruce try to blame his demented comments on TheWho who has never said anything remotely resembling the trash that RobertBruce posts daily? RobertBruce really is a sick individual and needs a lot of help.
One of the people he PM's with here (asked to remain anon) forwarded this to me in disgust after one of RobertBruce's PM's to her:Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Wow, I really got those guys stirred up today! Sometimes I wonder why I even bother to respond, but these kids claiming to have been "victimized" or "abused" are really just exagerating things to manipulate parents into not seeking help. 99% of that stuff never even happened (lies) and the other 1% is overblown (manipulation). One thing I will admit though is that when I was at HLA I was never really abused. I made it all up because I was pissed at my parents for sending me there. I now realize the school would have been good for me because I cant seem to get my shit together or get a job. I left HLA after only a few months. Looking back the only bad thing was the lack of good food like pizza and nachos. They forced us to eat vegetables and non processed meats, which looking back was a better choice than I would have made on my own. Anyway screw TheWho.
Back on topic...Ha, Ha, Ha... as TheWho would say, Fight fire with fire! I'm going to do it to "Cindy" today!
I guess this explains a few things, huh? RobertBruce is a sick-o and a loser with nothing better to do than try to control and/or make up abuse storis.
New lows for RobertBruce. Sad? Yes. Surprising? No, not at all. I met him in HLA.
The truth about RobertBruce laid bare. He thinks kids getting abused is funny.
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2007, 03:57:05 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
TheWho admits that he enjoys making fun of the personal testimonies of sexual abuse victims.
He admits he finds one of the most detailed and horrifying accounts "struck him as a little funny".
He copy/pasted the most graphic part of this survivor's testimony.
Then added his own comments in a sadistic attempt at humor. The
day after the survivor posted their original story.
TheWho posted in response to one guest as a way to "Get back at that guest" and "try to be funny".
He failed at both.
He did, however, manage to show his true nature, decide for yourself.
In an earlier post he claims he would believe a survivor if he knew nothing of the facility (as in this case).
A confirmed lie.
He will not just disbelieve a survivor. He will copy/paste their words.
Add his own jokes about sexual and physical abuse in captivity.
A truly disgusting spectacle of immaturity by TheWho.
The Who admits to finding testimony of sexual and physical abuse "a little funny" and is a confirmed liar.
Copy/pasted from this thread of post made Sat Apr 14, 2007
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
TheWho writes the next day Sun Apr 15, 2007 in response to a guest:Quote from: ""TheWho""Oh come on that�s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80[/url]
Why would TheWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse? The comments int he parenthesis are TheWho's, the rest was copy/pasted from a survivor testimony posted one day earlier, detailing sexual abuse and other horrible forms of abuse.Quote from: ""TheWho""There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that�s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
He disgustingly uses the most graphic details of a survivor's abuse story to make jokes. He is making fun of a child abuse victim who is explaining they were sexually abused, and he makes fun of the very next day. TheWho has some maturing to do!Quote from: ""TheWho""If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
He is also a CONFIRMED liar.
"Who" finds detailed accounts of sexual and physical abuse in captivity funny and then uses it in their posts to make jokes???
Talk about SLEEZY! :roll:
This sums it up alright.
Post by: TheWho on December 08, 2007, 04:04:09 PM
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: TheWho on December 08, 2007, 04:06:17 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""This is NOT FUNNY, RobertBruce! What is WRONG with you?Quote from: ""Guest""Here's another Sleazy Response from RobertBruce about a sexual abuse victim:Yes, but he tries to portray himself as a "survivor" which has become a synonym in the TBs industry for "loser"...Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Ha, Ha, Ha............. Sometimes this is too funny! You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha... Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity! You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha
This guy is SICK!
Anyone reading RobertBruce's nonsense should put it in context by reading his other posts, especially the ones where he says it's perfectly acceptable to "make up abuse stories"
Why would RobertBruce try to blame his demented comments on TheWho who has never said anything remotely resembling the trash that RobertBruce posts daily? RobertBruce really is a sick individual and needs a lot of help.
One of the people he PM's with here (asked to remain anon) forwarded this to me in disgust after one of RobertBruce's PM's to her:Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Wow, I really got those guys stirred up today! Sometimes I wonder why I even bother to respond, but these kids claiming to have been "victimized" or "abused" are really just exagerating things to manipulate parents into not seeking help. 99% of that stuff never even happened (lies) and the other 1% is overblown (manipulation). One thing I will admit though is that when I was at HLA I was never really abused. I made it all up because I was pissed at my parents for sending me there. I now realize the school would have been good for me because I cant seem to get my shit together or get a job. I left HLA after only a few months. Looking back the only bad thing was the lack of good food like pizza and nachos. They forced us to eat vegetables and non processed meats, which looking back was a better choice than I would have made on my own. Anyway screw TheWho.
Back on topic...Ha, Ha, Ha... as TheWho would say, Fight fire with fire! I'm going to do it to "Cindy" today!
I guess this explains a few things, huh? RobertBruce is a sick-o and a loser with nothing better to do than try to control and/or make up abuse storis.
New lows for RobertBruce. Sad? Yes. Surprising? No, not at all. I met him in HLA.
The truth about RobertBruce laid bare. He thinks kids getting abused is funny.
Post by: TheWho on December 08, 2007, 04:13:35 PM
(http://
[url=http://www.ducktapeclub.com/contests/prom/graphics/contest/2005/089_Big.jpg]http://www.ducktapeclub.com/contests/pr ... 89_Big.jpg[/url])
Post by: TheWho on December 08, 2007, 04:14:35 PM
(http://http://www.ducktapeclub.com/contests/prom/graphics/contest/2005/089_Big.jpg)
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2007, 04:28:29 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""TheWho admits that he enjoys making fun of the personal testimonies of sexual abuse victims.
He admits he finds one of the most detailed and horrifying accounts "struck him as a little funny".
He copy/pasted the most graphic part of this survivor's testimony.
Then added his own comments in a sadistic attempt at humor. The
day after the survivor posted their original story.
TheWho posted in response to one guest as a way to "Get back at that guest" and "try to be funny".
He failed at both.
He did, however, manage to show his true nature, decide for yourself.
In an earlier post he claims he would believe a survivor if he knew nothing of the facility (as in this case).
A confirmed lie.
He will not just disbelieve a survivor. He will copy/paste their words.
Add his own jokes about sexual and physical abuse in captivity.
A truly disgusting spectacle of immaturity by TheWho.
The Who admits to finding testimony of sexual and physical abuse "a little funny" and is a confirmed liar.
Copy/pasted from this thread of post made Sat Apr 14, 2007
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
TheWho writes the next day Sun Apr 15, 2007 in response to a guest:Quote from: ""TheWho""Oh come on that�s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80[/url]
Why would TheWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse? The comments int he parenthesis are TheWho's, the rest was copy/pasted from a survivor testimony posted one day earlier, detailing sexual abuse and other horrible forms of abuse.Quote from: ""TheWho""There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that�s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
He disgustingly uses the most graphic details of a survivor's abuse story to make jokes. He is making fun of a child abuse victim who is explaining they were sexually abused, and he makes fun of the very next day. TheWho has some maturing to do!Quote from: ""TheWho""If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
He is also a CONFIRMED liar.
"Who" finds detailed accounts of sexual and physical abuse in captivity funny and then uses it in their posts to make jokes???
Talk about SLEEZY! :roll:
This sums it up alright.
Yes, he's a very sleazy man.
Post by: TheWho on December 08, 2007, 04:44:55 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""This is NOT FUNNY, RobertBruce! What is WRONG with you?Quote from: ""Guest""Here's another Sleazy Response from RobertBruce about a sexual abuse victim:Yes, but he tries to portray himself as a "survivor" which has become a synonym in the TBs industry for "loser"...Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Ha, Ha, Ha............. Sometimes this is too funny! You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha... Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity! You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha
This guy is SICK!
Anyone reading RobertBruce's nonsense should put it in context by reading his other posts, especially the ones where he says it's perfectly acceptable to "make up abuse stories"
Why would RobertBruce try to blame his demented comments on TheWho who has never said anything remotely resembling the trash that RobertBruce posts daily? RobertBruce really is a sick individual and needs a lot of help.
One of the people he PM's with here (asked to remain anon) forwarded this to me in disgust after one of RobertBruce's PM's to her:Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Wow, I really got those guys stirred up today! Sometimes I wonder why I even bother to respond, but these kids claiming to have been "victimized" or "abused" are really just exagerating things to manipulate parents into not seeking help. 99% of that stuff never even happened (lies) and the other 1% is overblown (manipulation). One thing I will admit though is that when I was at HLA I was never really abused. I made it all up because I was pissed at my parents for sending me there. I now realize the school would have been good for me because I cant seem to get my shit together or get a job. I left HLA after only a few months. Looking back the only bad thing was the lack of good food like pizza and nachos. They forced us to eat vegetables and non processed meats, which looking back was a better choice than I would have made on my own. Anyway screw TheWho.
Back on topic...Ha, Ha, Ha... as TheWho would say, Fight fire with fire! I'm going to do it to "Cindy" today!
I guess this explains a few things, huh? RobertBruce is a sick-o and a loser with nothing better to do than try to control and/or make up abuse storis.
New lows for RobertBruce. Sad? Yes. Surprising? No, not at all. I met him in HLA.
The truth about RobertBruce laid bare. He thinks kids getting abused is funny.
Post by: TheWho on December 08, 2007, 04:50:42 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2007, 05:00:37 PM
Post by: try another castle on December 08, 2007, 07:31:44 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Bump to piss everyone off
Success. You should die.
If you do, hell should make you
Read all of this crap
Post by: Nihilanthic on December 08, 2007, 07:44:02 PM
:rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2007, 07:50:21 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This post was copied from the Web Forum hosting thread. It seems TheWho has a long history of editing his posts after being called out and then trying to take jabs at the person that called him out saying "I never said that!" or "The moderators edited my post!"
Any reader can see that this is very childish and that TheWho can't be believed, as he's been caught out there too many times simply lying about what can be proven to be true.Quote from: ""Guest""Case in point. TheWho caught out there again editing his posts to make it appear that he didn't say something that he did... Pretty sad...Quote from: ""Guest""I repeated my post because you buried it by responding with identical posts, one from your username which you went back and edited afterwards and one anonymously. You posted originally at 9:46am and edited your post 3 times with the last at 11:36am, right after you claimed that you didn't repeat yourself. So save your baby-games for someone else.
The proof:Quote from: ""TheWho""Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:46 am
I dont think this shows parents seek to have their local school districts place kids at ASR. It is just too expensive for one thing, but since I was asked not to opine I will ask if any of the "Guests" out there could answer this one.
Last edited by TheWho on Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:36 am; edited 3 times in total
Look, I've read your "work" here and I can see your M.O. is to distract from the conversation and to take jabs at people who point out your behavior and then to edit your posts to try to cover up your own behavior when called out. I'm not trying to play games with you and I don't need your snide remarks or to watch you edit posts retroactively to try to make yourself look better.
If you want to play games like this and act like a child, copy my post into your own thread (a disaster area) and make your commentary there. Have at it. But don't insult people's intelligence when anyone can see you edit your posts to try to cover up your cildish commentary and behavior.
This pretty much sums up theWho's career on Fornits. It's sad that an adult would behave this way, but there it is again...
Post by: try another castle on December 08, 2007, 07:51:08 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Someone take thewho to the power exchange in a "piggy cage" with a note saying he's "Bear food"?
:rofl:
How the fuck do you know about the power exchange? Did you move to san francsico?
You should check out the victorian room. It is apparently the most unsexy silly room there. They have a large dinner table with a big fake turkey on it. At least according to a friend of mine. I've never been. It just doesn't interest me. Too fancy and contrived. I prefer someone's basement, where you are not entirely sure if you are going to get out alive.
The old space for the Links parties here was pretty fucking cool, too, but a lot of the people were uptight. They had a silly rule about "no laughing in the dungeons". Please. Give me a break. "There is nothing fun or humorous about S/M."
That ranks right up there with Fritz Freleng walking by the WB animation studio, hearing the animators joking around, storming in there and telling Chuck Jones, Bob Clampett and Tex Avery (three of the funniest animators in the business) that there was absolutely nothing funny about cartoons.
I have no idea what Fritz was doing as the head of Looney Tunes and as an animator himself if he really felt that way.
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2007, 07:59:59 PM
Quote
They had a silly rule about "no laughing in the dungeons".
This rule + ticklish subs + a feather duster = lulz
Post by: TheWho on December 08, 2007, 09:26:56 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""This is NOT FUNNY, RobertBruce! What is WRONG with you?Quote from: ""Guest""Here's another Sleazy Response from RobertBruce about a sexual abuse victim:Yes, but he tries to portray himself as a "survivor" which has become a synonym in the TBs industry for "loser"...Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Ha, Ha, Ha............. Sometimes this is too funny! You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha... Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity! You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha
This guy is SICK!
Anyone reading RobertBruce's nonsense should put it in context by reading his other posts, especially the ones where he says it's perfectly acceptable to "make up abuse stories"
Why would RobertBruce try to blame his demented comments on TheWho who has never said anything remotely resembling the trash that RobertBruce posts daily? RobertBruce really is a sick individual and needs a lot of help.
One of the people he PM's with here (asked to remain anon) forwarded this to me in disgust after one of RobertBruce's PM's to her:Quote from: ""RobertBruce""
Wow, I really got those guys stirred up today! Sometimes I wonder why I even bother to respond, but these kids claiming to have been "victimized" or "abused" are really just exagerating things to manipulate parents into not seeking help. 99% of that stuff never even happened (lies) and the other 1% is overblown (manipulation). One thing I will admit though is that when I was at HLA I was never really abused. I made it all up because I was pissed at my parents for sending me there. I now realize the school would have been good for me because I cant seem to get my shit together or get a job. I left HLA after only a few months. Looking back the only bad thing was the lack of good food like pizza and nachos. They forced us to eat vegetables and non processed meats, which looking back was a better choice than I would have made on my own. Anyway screw TheWho.
Back on topic...Ha, Ha, Ha... as TheWho would say, Fight fire with fire! I'm going to do it to "Cindy" today!
I guess this explains a few things, huh? RobertBruce is a sick-o and a loser with nothing better to do than try to control and/or make up abuse storis.
New lows for RobertBruce. Sad? Yes. Surprising? No, not at all. I met him in HLA.
The truth about RobertBruce laid bare. He thinks kids getting abused is funny.
Post by: TheWho on December 08, 2007, 09:28:29 PM
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Nihilanthic on December 08, 2007, 10:01:47 PM
Quote from: ""try another castle""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""Someone take thewho to the power exchange in a "piggy cage" with a note saying he's "Bear food"?
:rofl:
How the fuck do you know about the power exchange? Did you move to san francsico?
You should check out the victorian room. It is apparently the most unsexy silly room there. They have a large dinner table with a big fake turkey on it. At least according to a friend of mine. I've never been. It just doesn't interest me. Too fancy and contrived. I prefer someone's basement, where you are not entirely sure if you are going to get out alive.
The old space for the Links parties here was pretty fucking cool, too, but a lot of the people were uptight. They had a silly rule about "no laughing in the dungeons". Please. Give me a break. "There is nothing fun or humorous about S/M."
That ranks right up there with Fritz Freleng walking by the WB animation studio, hearing the animators joking around, storming in there and telling Chuck Jones, Bob Clampett and Tex Avery (three of the funniest animators in the business) that there was absolutely nothing funny about cartoons.
I have no idea what Fritz was doing as the head of Looney Tunes and as an animator himself if he really felt that way.
YOU TOLD ME TO GO THERE
Post by: TheWho on December 08, 2007, 11:08:17 PM
...
Post by: try another castle on December 08, 2007, 11:32:26 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Quote from: ""try another castle""Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""Someone take thewho to the power exchange in a "piggy cage" with a note saying he's "Bear food"?
:rofl:
How the fuck do you know about the power exchange? Did you move to san francsico?
You should check out the victorian room. It is apparently the most unsexy silly room there. They have a large dinner table with a big fake turkey on it. At least according to a friend of mine. I've never been. It just doesn't interest me. Too fancy and contrived. I prefer someone's basement, where you are not entirely sure if you are going to get out alive.
The old space for the Links parties here was pretty fucking cool, too, but a lot of the people were uptight. They had a silly rule about "no laughing in the dungeons". Please. Give me a break. "There is nothing fun or humorous about S/M."
That ranks right up there with Fritz Freleng walking by the WB animation studio, hearing the animators joking around, storming in there and telling Chuck Jones, Bob Clampett and Tex Avery (three of the funniest animators in the business) that there was absolutely nothing funny about cartoons.
I have no idea what Fritz was doing as the head of Looney Tunes and as an animator himself if he really felt that way.
YOU TOLD ME TO GO THERE
wait the fucking minute. You visited san francisco and you didn't tell me you were in town?
You are a fucking hooker.
Post by: TheWho on December 08, 2007, 11:35:20 PM
Quote from: ""try another castle""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""Quote from: ""try another castle""Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""Someone take thewho to the power exchange in a "piggy cage" with a note saying he's "Bear food"?
:rofl:
How the fuck do you know about the power exchange? Did you move to san francsico?
You should check out the victorian room. It is apparently the most unsexy silly room there. They have a large dinner table with a big fake turkey on it. At least according to a friend of mine. I've never been. It just doesn't interest me. Too fancy and contrived. I prefer someone's basement, where you are not entirely sure if you are going to get out alive.
The old space for the Links parties here was pretty fucking cool, too, but a lot of the people were uptight. They had a silly rule about "no laughing in the dungeons". Please. Give me a break. "There is nothing fun or humorous about S/M."
That ranks right up there with Fritz Freleng walking by the WB animation studio, hearing the animators joking around, storming in there and telling Chuck Jones, Bob Clampett and Tex Avery (three of the funniest animators in the business) that there was absolutely nothing funny about cartoons.
I have no idea what Fritz was doing as the head of Looney Tunes and as an animator himself if he really felt that way.
YOU TOLD ME TO GO THERE
wait the fucking minute. You visited san francisco and you didn't tell me you were in town?
You are a fucking hooker.
I heard Niles got in for free.
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2007, 09:27:58 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""This post was copied from the Web Forum hosting thread. It seems TheWho has a long history of editing his posts after being called out and then trying to take jabs at the person that called him out saying "I never said that!" or "The moderators edited my post!"
Any reader can see that this is very childish and that TheWho can't be believed, as he's been caught out there too many times simply lying about what can be proven to be true.Quote from: ""Guest""Case in point. TheWho caught out there again editing his posts to make it appear that he didn't say something that he did... Pretty sad...Quote from: ""Guest""I repeated my post because you buried it by responding with identical posts, one from your username which you went back and edited afterwards and one anonymously. You posted originally at 9:46am and edited your post 3 times with the last at 11:36am, right after you claimed that you didn't repeat yourself. So save your baby-games for someone else.
The proof:Quote from: ""TheWho""Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:46 am
I dont think this shows parents seek to have their local school districts place kids at ASR. It is just too expensive for one thing, but since I was asked not to opine I will ask if any of the "Guests" out there could answer this one.
Last edited by TheWho on Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:36 am; edited 3 times in total
Look, I've read your "work" here and I can see your M.O. is to distract from the conversation and to take jabs at people who point out your behavior and then to edit your posts to try to cover up your own behavior when called out. I'm not trying to play games with you and I don't need your snide remarks or to watch you edit posts retroactively to try to make yourself look better.
If you want to play games like this and act like a child, copy my post into your own thread (a disaster area) and make your commentary there. Have at it. But don't insult people's intelligence when anyone can see you edit your posts to try to cover up your cildish commentary and behavior.
This pretty much sums up theWho's career on Fornits. It's sad that an adult would behave this way, but there it is again...
Let's stay on topic, ha, ha, ha.
...
Post by: TheWho on December 09, 2007, 09:47:06 AM
Post by: TheWho on December 09, 2007, 09:48:34 AM
Post by: TheWho on December 09, 2007, 09:50:46 AM
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2007, 12:28:41 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""This post was copied from the Web Forum hosting thread. It seems TheWho has a long history of editing his posts after being called out and then trying to take jabs at the person that called him out saying "I never said that!" or "The moderators edited my post!"
Any reader can see that this is very childish and that TheWho can't be believed, as he's been caught out there too many times simply lying about what can be proven to be true.Quote from: ""Guest""Case in point. TheWho caught out there again editing his posts to make it appear that he didn't say something that he did... Pretty sad...Quote from: ""Guest""I repeated my post because you buried it by responding with identical posts, one from your username which you went back and edited afterwards and one anonymously. You posted originally at 9:46am and edited your post 3 times with the last at 11:36am, right after you claimed that you didn't repeat yourself. So save your baby-games for someone else.
The proof:Quote from: ""TheWho""Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:46 am
I dont think this shows parents seek to have their local school districts place kids at ASR. It is just too expensive for one thing, but since I was asked not to opine I will ask if any of the "Guests" out there could answer this one.
Last edited by TheWho on Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:36 am; edited 3 times in total
Look, I've read your "work" here and I can see your M.O. is to distract from the conversation and to take jabs at people who point out your behavior and then to edit your posts to try to cover up your own behavior when called out. I'm not trying to play games with you and I don't need your snide remarks or to watch you edit posts retroactively to try to make yourself look better.
If you want to play games like this and act like a child, copy my post into your own thread (a disaster area) and make your commentary there. Have at it. But don't insult people's intelligence when anyone can see you edit your posts to try to cover up your cildish commentary and behavior.
This pretty much sums up theWho's career on Fornits. It's sad that an adult would behave this way, but there it is again...
Let's stay on topic, ha, ha, ha.
...
TheWho really is a vile human being. I never knew how bad he was (he tries to hide it) until I looked at his work on this thread. I can't see how any parent could take this guy seriously at all.
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2007, 12:35:23 PM
Post by: TheWho on December 09, 2007, 12:45:30 PM
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2007, 07:43:11 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""This post was copied from the Web Forum hosting thread. It seems TheWho has a long history of editing his posts after being called out and then trying to take jabs at the person that called him out saying "I never said that!" or "The moderators edited my post!"
Any reader can see that this is very childish and that TheWho can't be believed, as he's been caught out there too many times simply lying about what can be proven to be true.Quote from: ""Guest""Case in point. TheWho caught out there again editing his posts to make it appear that he didn't say something that he did... Pretty sad...Quote from: ""Guest""I repeated my post because you buried it by responding with identical posts, one from your username which you went back and edited afterwards and one anonymously. You posted originally at 9:46am and edited your post 3 times with the last at 11:36am, right after you claimed that you didn't repeat yourself. So save your baby-games for someone else.
The proof:Quote from: ""TheWho""Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:46 am
I dont think this shows parents seek to have their local school districts place kids at ASR. It is just too expensive for one thing, but since I was asked not to opine I will ask if any of the "Guests" out there could answer this one.
Last edited by TheWho on Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:36 am; edited 3 times in total
Look, I've read your "work" here and I can see your M.O. is to distract from the conversation and to take jabs at people who point out your behavior and then to edit your posts to try to cover up your own behavior when called out. I'm not trying to play games with you and I don't need your snide remarks or to watch you edit posts retroactively to try to make yourself look better.
If you want to play games like this and act like a child, copy my post into your own thread (a disaster area) and make your commentary there. Have at it. But don't insult people's intelligence when anyone can see you edit your posts to try to cover up your cildish commentary and behavior.
This pretty much sums up theWho's career on Fornits. It's sad that an adult would behave this way, but there it is again...
Let's stay on topic, ha, ha, ha.
...
TheWho really is a vile human being. I never knew how bad he was (he tries to hide it) until I looked at his work on this thread. I can't see how any parent could take this guy seriously at all.
:oops: :oops: :oops:
Post by: TheWho on December 09, 2007, 08:01:55 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""This post was copied from the Web Forum hosting thread. It seems TheWho has a long history of editing his posts after being called out and then trying to take jabs at the person that called him out saying "I never said that!" or "The moderators edited my post!"
Any reader can see that this is very childish and that TheWho can't be believed, as he's been caught out there too many times simply lying about what can be proven to be true.Quote from: ""Guest""Case in point. TheWho caught out there again editing his posts to make it appear that he didn't say something that he did... Pretty sad...Quote from: ""Guest""I repeated my post because you buried it by responding with identical posts, one from your username which you went back and edited afterwards and one anonymously. You posted originally at 9:46am and edited your post 3 times with the last at 11:36am, right after you claimed that you didn't repeat yourself. So save your baby-games for someone else.
The proof:Quote from: ""TheWho""Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:46 am
I dont think this shows parents seek to have their local school districts place kids at ASR. It is just too expensive for one thing, but since I was asked not to opine I will ask if any of the "Guests" out there could answer this one.
Last edited by TheWho on Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:36 am; edited 3 times in total
Look, I've read your "work" here and I can see your M.O. is to distract from the conversation and to take jabs at people who point out your behavior and then to edit your posts to try to cover up your own behavior when called out. I'm not trying to play games with you and I don't need your snide remarks or to watch you edit posts retroactively to try to make yourself look better.
If you want to play games like this and act like a child, copy my post into your own thread (a disaster area) and make your commentary there. Have at it. But don't insult people's intelligence when anyone can see you edit your posts to try to cover up your cildish commentary and behavior.
This pretty much sums up theWho's career on Fornits. It's sad that an adult would behave this way, but there it is again...
Let's stay on topic, ha, ha, ha.
...
TheWho really is a vile human being. I never knew how bad he was (he tries to hide it) until I looked at his work on this thread. I can't see how any parent could take this guy seriously at all.
:oops: :oops: :oops:
This is good stuff, but we have to come up with something better to discredit him or make parents believe he doesnt know what he is talking about.
Post by: TheWho on December 09, 2007, 08:05:04 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2007, 08:13:48 PM
What you must do is go to the media, sue, go to the police, go to child protection agencies. Go to isac, cafety. All of the above
The who is an irrelevent program shill, and arguing with him here accomplishes nothing, except perhaps, to make you angry enough to take action you are otherwise to defeated to take
Post by: TheWho on December 09, 2007, 08:21:53 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The Who is not important.
What you must do is go to the media, sue, go to the police, go to child protection agencies. Go to isac, cafety. All of the above
The who is an irrelevent program shill, and arguing with him here accomplishes nothing, except perhaps, to make you angry enough to take action you are otherwise to defeated to take
Thewho is useless and must be destroyed. You must listen to us. All kids who ever attended a program is doing badly, even if they say they are doing good. If kids say they are doing well they are lieing. If you think otherwise you are a fucking idiot parent and shouldnt be posting here.
Listen to what we are saying and dont ever listen to thewho.
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2007, 08:30:02 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""The Who is not important.
What you must do is go to the media, sue, go to the police, go to child protection agencies. Go to isac, cafety. All of the above
The who is an irrelevent program shill, and arguing with him here accomplishes nothing, except perhaps, to make you angry enough to take action you are otherwise to defeated to take
Thewho is useless and must be destroyed. You must listen to us. All kids who ever attended a program is doing badly, even if they say they are doing good. If kids say they are doing well they are lieing. If you think otherwise you are a fucking idiot parent and shouldnt be posting here.
Listen to what we are saying and dont ever listen to thewho.
I'm a survivor, barely alive. And I wonder if you are not a troll, as your response was so weird. The who "should" be destroyed, but he is not the one who abducted you, tortured you, and who by dint of their power protected those that did. He is the enemy you need to focus on.
Those are the enemies murdering children. This person is an irrelevant shill
Post by: TheWho on December 10, 2007, 07:50:32 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2007, 09:00:41 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
We need to discredit this guy as much as we can.. someone come up with something so no one will believe what he says.
I think TheWho did that for us. :lol:
Post by: Troll Control on December 10, 2007, 09:08:25 AM
As an aside, it's pretty sad that someone with over 3000 useless posts spends so much time trolling himself posing as a "fornits anon regular" to try to discredit the site. If he has to stoop this low - trolling his own posts over and again - why doesn't he just move on to somewhere else where he feels like his nonsense will register with readers? He sort of behaves like a program staff here; willing to shame himself to degrade others. Being right by any means at any cost seems to drive this jerk's responses.
What a sad little petty man.
Post by: TheWho on December 10, 2007, 09:09:04 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""We need to discredit this guy as much as we can.. someone come up with something so no one will believe what he says.
I think TheWho did that for us. :lol:
He does alot for us Ha,Ha,Ha
...
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2007, 11:06:45 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Yes, he did. He also authored the two posts above suggesting "we" take further dishonest actions to discredit him. I'm fine with just using the simple truth to discredit him fully.
As an aside, it's pretty sad that someone with over 3000 useless posts spends so much time trolling himself posing as a "fornits anon regular" to try to discredit the site. If he has to stoop this low - trolling his own posts over and again - why doesn't he just move on to somewhere else where he feels like his nonsense will register with readers? He sort of behaves like a program staff here; willing to shame himself to degrade others. Being right by any means at any cost seems to drive this jerk's responses.
What a sad little petty man.
:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy:
Post by: TheWho on December 10, 2007, 11:20:23 AM
Lets keep this going until he leaves.
Post by: Troll Control on December 10, 2007, 11:30:27 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I still think the best way to get rid of him and his opinions is to post his matrix and try to get him banned again for flooding nd keep telling everyone all the"Anon" posts are really his like you are.
Lets keep this going until he leaves.
^^^thewhore posting anon again^^^
this guy is really pretty dumb. everyone is hip to his little scheme, yet he keeps going for it. dude, go bang your head on a big rock for a while. you'll get the same result.
Post by: TheWho on December 10, 2007, 11:31:41 AM
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2007, 11:35:37 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I still think the best way to get rid of him and his opinions is to post his matrix and try to get him banned again for flooding nd keep telling everyone all the"Anon" posts are really his like you are.
Lets keep this going until he leaves.
Please no. Make it stop!!!!!!
Post by: Troll Control on December 10, 2007, 11:40:40 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Yes, he did. He also authored the two posts above suggesting "we" take further dishonest actions to discredit him. I'm fine with just using the simple truth to discredit him fully.
As an aside, it's pretty sad that someone with over 3000 useless posts spends so much time trolling himself posing as a "fornits anon regular" to try to discredit the site. If he has to stoop this low - trolling his own posts over and again - why doesn't he just move on to somewhere else where he feels like his nonsense will register with readers? He sort of behaves like a program staff here; willing to shame himself to degrade others. Being right by any means at any cost seems to drive this jerk's responses.
What a sad little petty man.
BINGO! Spot on!
Post by: TheWho on December 10, 2007, 11:51:13 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""I still think the best way to get rid of him and his opinions is to post his matrix and try to get him banned again for flooding nd keep telling everyone all the"Anon" posts are really his like you are.
Lets keep this going until he leaves.
Please no. Make it stop!!!!!!
All the posts are thewho's, even this one... Ha,Ha,Ha,..... that why it is called thewho thread.....
it is 3,000 posts all by thewho. Who else would keep posting that Matrix on every page.. think about it
All the anon posts are thewho's even this one.
...
Post by: Troll Control on December 10, 2007, 01:10:06 PM
anyone ever notice that thewhore responds anonymously to this thread right before he posts in another? you're real slick, there whore. real slick.
Post by: TheWho on December 10, 2007, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
god, you're so dumb. can't you control your compulsion to respond?
anyone ever notice that thewhore responds anonymously to this thread right before he posts in another? you're real slick, there whore. real slick.
Look, he is even calling himself dumb and admits he has a compulsion. This whole thread is nuts!!
Watch, he will respond to me because he needs to get the last word.
Post by: Troll Control on December 10, 2007, 01:50:11 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""god, you're so dumb. can't you control your compulsion to respond?
anyone ever notice that thewhore responds anonymously to this thread right before he posts in another? you're real slick, there whore. real slick.
Look, he is even calling himself dumb and admits he has a compulsion. This whole thread is nuts!!
Watch, he will respond to me because he needs to get the last word.
Ha, ha, ha. You're just mad because I have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that programs are safe and beneficial for all. So, no, I won't respond to you.
...
Post by: TheWho on December 10, 2007, 02:04:09 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""god, you're so dumb. can't you control your compulsion to respond?
anyone ever notice that thewhore responds anonymously to this thread right before he posts in another? you're real slick, there whore. real slick.
Look, he is even calling himself dumb and admits he has a compulsion. This whole thread is nuts!!
Watch, he will respond to me because he needs to get the last word.
Ha, ha, ha. You're just mad because I have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that programs are safe and beneficial for all. So, no, I won't respond to you.
...
See I made him respond !! I predicted it, he didnt even realize he was doing it. I knew I was smarter than thewhore anyday of the week. I control him like a friggin puppet.
Post by: TheWho on December 10, 2007, 02:16:44 PM
Carry on
...
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2007, 06:32:27 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Yes, he did. He also authored the two posts above suggesting "we" take further dishonest actions to discredit him. I'm fine with just using the simple truth to discredit him fully.
As an aside, it's pretty sad that someone with over 3000 useless posts spends so much time trolling himself posing as a "fornits anon regular" to try to discredit the site. If he has to stoop this low - trolling his own posts over and again - why doesn't he just move on to somewhere else where he feels like his nonsense will register with readers? He sort of behaves like a program staff here; willing to shame himself to degrade others. Being right by any means at any cost seems to drive this jerk's responses.
What a sad little petty man.
:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy:
This is a good summary of TheWho's activities here.
Post by: TheWho on December 10, 2007, 06:42:51 PM
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2007, 06:55:32 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Yes, he did. He also authored the two posts above suggesting "we" take further dishonest actions to discredit him. I'm fine with just using the simple truth to discredit him fully.
As an aside, it's pretty sad that someone with over 3000 useless posts spends so much time trolling himself posing as a "fornits anon regular" to try to discredit the site. If he has to stoop this low - trolling his own posts over and again - why doesn't he just move on to somewhere else where he feels like his nonsense will register with readers? He sort of behaves like a program staff here; willing to shame himself to degrade others. Being right by any means at any cost seems to drive this jerk's responses.
What a sad little petty man.
BINGO! Spot on!
Here comes "The Matrix" (TheWho's defense mechanism). All you have to do is bump the thread and he'll stay up all night checking compulsively. I think it's worth it to keep his quality of life low.
Post by: TheWho on December 10, 2007, 07:09:11 PM
.."The Matrix"..[/color] .."The Matrix".. .."The Matrix"..[/b] .."The Matrix".. .."The Matrix".. .."The Matrix"..
.."The Matrix"..[/color] .."The Matrix".. .."The Matrix"..[/b] .."The Matrix"..[/color] .."The Matrix".. .."The Matrix"..[/b]
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2007, 07:09:29 PM
Quote
I think you will see that after you eliminate the state run hospitals and boot camps the numbers look pretty good.
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 10 Homicides, 21 suicides, ----31 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 26 Homicides, 16 suicides, ----- 42 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 36 Homicides , 37 suicides, ----- 73 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 33 Homicides, 45 suicides, ----78 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 27 Homicides, 41 suicides, ----- 68 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 60 Homicides , 86 suicides, -----146 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 66 Homicides, 104 suicides,--170 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 53 Homicides, 80 suicides, ----133 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 119 Homicides , 184 suicides, --303 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 111 Homicides, 99 suicides,--210 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 131 Homicides, 106 suicides, -237 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 242 Homicides , 205 suicides, --447 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
You call these numbers good? God damn, man! This is a lot of child murdering and suicide.
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2007, 07:11:42 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I knew I was smarter than thewhore anyday of the week.
Of course, that's not saying very much.
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2007, 07:12:23 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""I knew I was smarter than thewhore anyday of the week.Of course, that's not saying very much.
Indeed.
Post by: Troll Control on December 11, 2007, 10:33:27 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
TheWho wrote:QuoteI think you will see that after you eliminate the state run hospitals and boot camps the numbers look pretty good.
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 10 Homicides, 21 suicides, ----31 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 26 Homicides, 16 suicides, ----- 42 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 36 Homicides , 37 suicides, ----- 73 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 33 Homicides, 45 suicides, ----78 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 27 Homicides, 41 suicides, ----- 68 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 60 Homicides , 86 suicides, -----146 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 66 Homicides, 104 suicides,--170 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 53 Homicides, 80 suicides, ----133 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 119 Homicides , 184 suicides, --303 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 111 Homicides, 99 suicides,--210 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 131 Homicides, 106 suicides, -237 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 242 Homicides , 205 suicides, --447 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
You call these numbers good? God damn, man! This is a lot of child murdering and suicide.
Post by: TheWho on December 11, 2007, 12:25:06 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I think you will see that after you eliminate the state run hospitals and boot camps the numbers look pretty good.
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Troll Control on December 11, 2007, 02:36:59 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""TheWho wrote:QuoteI think you will see that after you eliminate the state run hospitals and boot camps the numbers look pretty good.
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 10 Homicides, 21 suicides, ----31 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 26 Homicides, 16 suicides, ----- 42 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 36 Homicides , 37 suicides, ----- 73 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 33 Homicides, 45 suicides, ----78 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 27 Homicides, 41 suicides, ----- 68 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 60 Homicides , 86 suicides, -----146 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 66 Homicides, 104 suicides,--170 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 53 Homicides, 80 suicides, ----133 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 119 Homicides , 184 suicides, --303 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 111 Homicides, 99 suicides,--210 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 131 Homicides, 106 suicides, -237 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 242 Homicides , 205 suicides, --447 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
You call these numbers good? God damn, man! This is a lot of child murdering and suicide.
Thanks for collecting this important data, TheWho! Some anon joker keeps posting some other matrix with almost all the data zeroed.
So, we can all agree, based on TheWho's data, that the TBS industry is very, very dangerous!
Post by: TheWho on December 11, 2007, 02:43:50 PM
Thank you.
Post by: TheWho on December 11, 2007, 02:59:33 PM
Post by: Troll Control on December 11, 2007, 03:32:35 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I am very confused, can you fix it so I can click on the program and see the details? It says in the post that you can do this but it is not working. This is the only way I can beleive the data, there is so much being posted.
Thank you.
Sorry, but I stopped updating the link page due to so many catalogued deaths. It was too much to keep up with, so I only update the matrix now. Hope that helps!
...
Post by: TheWho on December 11, 2007, 03:40:49 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
to the who, Why dont you make your information part of your footer like some of the other people do. Then we will know it is your data and not a troll or look alike page.
Thats a great idea, thank you, I will look into it. Until I get my footer changed you will know the correct table by the active connections when you click on the specific programs. If you cant verify the names then it is a false table.
...
Post by: Anonymous on December 11, 2007, 06:46:39 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""TheWho wrote:QuoteI think you will see that after you eliminate the state run hospitals and boot camps the numbers look pretty good.
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 10 Homicides, 21 suicides, ----31 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 26 Homicides, 16 suicides, ----- 42 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 36 Homicides , 37 suicides, ----- 73 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 33 Homicides, 45 suicides, ----78 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 27 Homicides, 41 suicides, ----- 68 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 60 Homicides , 86 suicides, -----146 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 66 Homicides, 104 suicides,--170 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 53 Homicides, 80 suicides, ----133 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 119 Homicides , 184 suicides, --303 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 111 Homicides, 99 suicides,--210 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 131 Homicides, 106 suicides, -237 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 242 Homicides , 205 suicides, --447 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
You call these numbers good? God damn, man! This is a lot of child murdering and suicide.
Yes. Quite a lot.
Post by: TheWho on December 11, 2007, 08:25:21 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
to the who, Why dont you make your information part of your footer like some of the other people do. Then we will know it is your data and not a troll or look alike page.
What do you think? check out the footer.. cool ? Not sure which email was yours, but thanks for your feed back.
...
Post by: Anonymous on December 11, 2007, 11:02:17 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""TheWho wrote:QuoteI think you will see that after you eliminate the state run hospitals and boot camps the numbers look pretty good.
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 10 Homicides, 21 suicides, ----31 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 26 Homicides, 16 suicides, ----- 42 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 36 Homicides , 37 suicides, ----- 73 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 33 Homicides, 45 suicides, ----78 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 27 Homicides, 41 suicides, ----- 68 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 60 Homicides , 86 suicides, -----146 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 66 Homicides, 104 suicides,--170 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 53 Homicides, 80 suicides, ----133 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 119 Homicides , 184 suicides, --303 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 111 Homicides, 99 suicides,--210 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 131 Homicides, 106 suicides, -237 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 242 Homicides , 205 suicides, --447 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
You call these numbers good? God damn, man! This is a lot of child murdering and suicide.
:shock:
You know what? When you count all the swept-under-the-rug ones this is probably pretty close to accurate...
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2007, 04:47:42 AM
Does the who work for bain capital?
What porgram do you think he works for?
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2007, 05:48:34 AM
Post by: TheWho on December 12, 2007, 06:30:52 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 12, 2007, 11:24:23 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Its a great thread to keep him ocupied and out of the other forums.
That is a great way to keep him out of these forums. A better way? Shooting him
Post by: Anne Bonney on December 12, 2007, 11:29:07 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Geez, look at the number of replies. This has got to be the longest post in fornits history. Sad that the honor goes to such a pathetic inspiration.
Not even close. 409 pages and counting.
::seg:: ::seg::
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=4491&start=4080 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=4491&start=4080)
Post by: TheWho on December 12, 2007, 11:45:04 AM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""Guest""Geez, look at the number of replies. This has got to be the longest post in fornits history. Sad that the honor goes to such a pathetic inspiration.
Not even close. 409 pages and counting.
::seg:: ::seg::
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=4491&start=4080 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=4491&start=4080)
I think they are new here...
...
Post by: Troll Control on December 12, 2007, 12:41:24 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""TheWho wrote:QuoteI think you will see that after you eliminate the state run hospitals and boot camps the numbers look pretty good.
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 10 Homicides, 21 suicides, ----31 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 26 Homicides, 16 suicides, ----- 42 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 36 Homicides , 37 suicides, ----- 73 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 33 Homicides, 45 suicides, ----78 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 27 Homicides, 41 suicides, ----- 68 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 60 Homicides , 86 suicides, -----146 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 66 Homicides, 104 suicides,--170 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 53 Homicides, 80 suicides, ----133 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 119 Homicides , 184 suicides, --303 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 111 Homicides, 99 suicides,--210 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 131 Homicides, 106 suicides, -237 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 242 Homicides , 205 suicides, --447 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
You call these numbers good? God damn, man! This is a lot of child murdering and suicide.
Yes. Quite a lot.
Post by: TheWho on December 12, 2007, 02:50:41 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I think you will see that after you eliminate the state run hospitals and boot camps the numbers look pretty good.
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Thewho When will the data be out for 2005, 2006? I think there were a couple kids who died during that time period.
Post by: Troll Control on December 14, 2007, 08:44:25 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""TheWho wrote:QuoteI think you will see that after you eliminate the state run hospitals and boot camps the numbers look pretty good.
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 10 Homicides, 21 suicides, ----31 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 26 Homicides, 16 suicides, ----- 42 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 36 Homicides , 37 suicides, ----- 73 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 33 Homicides, 45 suicides, ----78 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 27 Homicides, 41 suicides, ----- 68 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 60 Homicides , 86 suicides, -----146 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 66 Homicides, 104 suicides,--170 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 53 Homicides, 80 suicides, ----133 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 119 Homicides , 184 suicides, --303 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 111 Homicides, 99 suicides,--210 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 131 Homicides, 106 suicides, -237 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 242 Homicides , 205 suicides, --447 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
You call these numbers good? God damn, man! This is a lot of child murdering and suicide.
Yes. Quite a lot.
Latest, up to date matrix here, folks.
...
Post by: TheWho on December 14, 2007, 08:49:12 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""I think you will see that after you eliminate the state run hospitals and boot camps the numbers look pretty good.
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Thewho When will the data be out for 2005, 2006? I think there were a couple kids who died during that time period.
I am not sure, looking at the history it seems they dont update it every year and I am not sure why. This could be due to budget restranints.
Post by: Troll Control on December 14, 2007, 09:19:41 AM
TheWho wrote: Quote:
I think you will see that after you eliminate the state run hospitals and boot camps the numbers look pretty good.
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 10 Homicides, 21 suicides, ----31 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 26 Homicides, 16 suicides, ----- 42 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 36 Homicides , 37 suicides, ----- 73 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 33 Homicides, 45 suicides, ----78 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 27 Homicides, 41 suicides, ----- 68 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 60 Homicides , 86 suicides, -----146 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 66 Homicides, 104 suicides,--170 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 53 Homicides, 80 suicides, ----133 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 119 Homicides , 184 suicides, --303 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS ---------------------There were 111 Homicides, 99 suicides,--210 Total
Wilderness -----------There were 131 Homicides, 106 suicides, -237 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 242 Homicides , 205 suicides, --447 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
...
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2007, 05:08:09 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 16, 2007, 10:31:48 AM
Captcha: "however expensive" :roll:
Post by: Anonymous on December 16, 2007, 03:46:33 PM
Post by: Troll Control on December 17, 2007, 08:10:22 AM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: TheWho on December 17, 2007, 08:28:33 AM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: Troll Control on December 17, 2007, 08:31:03 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: TheWho on December 17, 2007, 08:50:33 AM
Post by: Troll Control on December 17, 2007, 08:57:26 AM
Post by: TheWho on December 17, 2007, 09:06:25 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
No, two posts up is where TheWho changed his quote to "RobertBruce". I just changed it back so people don't get confused about TheWho's behavior here. he has a long track record of saying really vile things and trying to attribute them to some guy RobertBruce from HLA.
I remember you. You use to be friends with Dysfunction Junction from HLA, sort of like his little side kick. Then you started trolling TheWho. I thought you left and got a job a long time ago. Why dont you log in anymore? Why dont you troll thewho while logged in?
Post by: TheWho on December 17, 2007, 09:11:13 AM
Quote from: ""quest""
I remember you. You use to be friends with Dysfunction Junction from HLA, sort of like his little side kick. Then you started trolling TheWho. I thought you left and got a job a long time ago. Why dont you log in anymore? Why dont you troll thewho while logged in?
Yeah, its me. I lost my password so I dont log in anymore, but I am still determined to get thewho banned again. I will just keep posting these posts anon, until the people understand that he needs to go, even if I have to make them up as I go.
Post by: TheWho on December 17, 2007, 09:16:55 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""quest""I remember you. You use to be friends with Dysfunction Junction from HLA, sort of like his little side kick. Then you started trolling TheWho. I thought you left and got a job a long time ago. Why dont you log in anymore? Why dont you troll thewho while logged in?
Yeah, its me. I lost my password so I dont log in anymore, but I am still determined to get thewho banned again. I will just keep posting these posts anon, until the people understand that he needs to go, even if I have to make them up as I go.
did you ever get a job? I remember you use to sit home all day while your wife worked and then you stopped posting here. We all figured you finally started working. You really had it out for thewho I remember. Did you get fired?
Post by: TheWho on December 17, 2007, 09:21:40 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""quest""I remember you. You use to be friends with Dysfunction Junction from HLA, sort of like his little side kick. Then you started trolling TheWho. I thought you left and got a job a long time ago. Why dont you log in anymore? Why dont you troll thewho while logged in?
Yeah, its me. I lost my password so I dont log in anymore, but I am still determined to get thewho banned again. I will just keep posting these posts anon, until the people understand that he needs to go, even if I have to make them up as I go.
did you ever get a job? I remember you use to sit home all day while your wife worked and then you stopped posting here. We all figured you finally started working. You really had it out for thewho I remember. Did you get fired?
Well, I lost my job because my boss was a jerk and didnt understand that I needed more time off than the others did, long story. So while I am waiting for another job to come along I fugured I would hound Thewho. I hate that programmie. did you like what I did with his Matrix? I think it really pissed him off cause he stopped posting it.
Post by: TheWho on December 17, 2007, 09:31:12 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""quest""I remember you. You use to be friends with Dysfunction Junction from HLA, sort of like his little side kick. Then you started trolling TheWho. I thought you left and got a job a long time ago. Why dont you log in anymore? Why dont you troll thewho while logged in?
Yeah, its me. I lost my password so I dont log in anymore, but I am still determined to get thewho banned again. I will just keep posting these posts anon, until the people understand that he needs to go, even if I have to make them up as I go.
did you ever get a job? I remember you use to sit home all day while your wife worked and then you stopped posting here. We all figured you finally started working. You really had it out for thewho I remember. Did you get fired?
Well, I lost my job because my boss was a jerk and didnt understand that I needed more time off than the others did, long story. So while I am waiting for another job to come along I fugured I would hound Thewho. I hate that programmie. did you like what I did with his Matrix? I think it really pissed him off cause he stopped posting it.
RobertBruce you should probably try to find something else to pass the time. By posting the fake numers of his matrix thewho decided to place a link on his footer. Now every post that he makes has a link to his so called famous Matrix. So your plan backfired. Why dont you get a new log in and start doing something positive with your time. Look at your friend DJ he went back to school. Maybe you could do something like that until you find more work instead of spending your time trying to make TheWho look bad. Just a suggestion.
Post by: Troll Control on December 17, 2007, 09:35:13 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""quest""I remember you. You use to be friends with Dysfunction Junction from HLA, sort of like his little side kick. Then you started trolling TheWho. I thought you left and got a job a long time ago. Why dont you log in anymore? Why dont you troll thewho while logged in?
Yeah, its me. I lost my password so I dont log in anymore, but I am still determined to get thewho banned again. I will just keep posting these posts anon, until the people understand that he needs to go, even if I have to make them up as I go.
did you ever get a job? I remember you use to sit home all day while your wife worked and then you stopped posting here. We all figured you finally started working. You really had it out for thewho I remember. Did you get fired?
Well, I lost my job because my boss was a jerk and didnt understand that I needed more time off than the others did, long story. So while I am waiting for another job to come along I fugured I would hound Thewho. I hate that programmie. did you like what I did with his Matrix? I think it really pissed him off cause he stopped posting it.
RobertBruce you should probably try to find something else to pass the time. By posting the fake numers of his matrix thewho decided to place a link on his footer. Now every post that he makes has a link to his so called famous Matrix. So your plan backfired. Why dont you get a new log in and start doing something positive with your time. Look at your friend DJ he went back to school. Maybe you could do something like that until you find more work instead of spending your time trying to make TheWho look bad. Just a suggestion.
Boy, it's easy to get consensus when dialoging with oneself. TheWho is the ultimate troll. He trolls HIMSELF incessantly! LOOOOOO-SERRRRRR!
Post by: TheWho on December 17, 2007, 09:38:13 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""quest""I remember you. You use to be friends with Dysfunction Junction from HLA, sort of like his little side kick. Then you started trolling TheWho. I thought you left and got a job a long time ago. Why dont you log in anymore? Why dont you troll thewho while logged in?
Yeah, its me. I lost my password so I dont log in anymore, but I am still determined to get thewho banned again. I will just keep posting these posts anon, until the people understand that he needs to go, even if I have to make them up as I go.
did you ever get a job? I remember you use to sit home all day while your wife worked and then you stopped posting here. We all figured you finally started working. You really had it out for thewho I remember. Did you get fired?
Well, I lost my job because my boss was a jerk and didnt understand that I needed more time off than the others did, long story. So while I am waiting for another job to come along I fugured I would hound Thewho. I hate that programmie. did you like what I did with his Matrix? I think it really pissed him off cause he stopped posting it.
RobertBruce you should probably try to find something else to pass the time. By posting the fake numers of his matrix thewho decided to place a link on his footer. Now every post that he makes has a link to his so called famous Matrix. So your plan backfired. Why dont you get a new log in and start doing something positive with your time. Look at your friend DJ he went back to school. Maybe you could do something like that until you find more work instead of spending your time trying to make TheWho look bad. Just a suggestion.
Yeah, I guess. Now that the HLA thread is sort of dead its just fun to troll the ole Who to pass the time but I hear you about getting a job. I should probably start hitting the streets. Give me a few more days. I know I can get thewho to leave for good. I will just keep changing all the names of the anon threads to his until he gets frustrated and leaves. Its a waste of time I know but it is fun.
Post by: Troll Control on December 17, 2007, 09:39:39 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""I remember you. You use to be friends with Dysfunction Junction from HLA, sort of like his little side kick. Then you started trolling TheWho. I thought you left and got a job a long time ago. Why dont you log in anymore? Why dont you troll thewho while logged in?
Yeah, its me. I lost my password so I dont log in anymore, but I am still determined to get thewho banned again. I will just keep posting these posts anon, until the people understand that he needs to go, even if I have to make them up as I go.
did you ever get a job? I remember you use to sit home all day while your wife worked and then you stopped posting here. We all figured you finally started working. You really had it out for thewho I remember. Did you get fired?
Well, I lost my job because my boss was a jerk and didnt understand that I needed more time off than the others did, long story. So while I am waiting for another job to come along I fugured I would hound Thewho. I hate that programmie. did you like what I did with his Matrix? I think it really pissed him off cause he stopped posting it.
RobertBruce you should probably try to find something else to pass the time. By posting the fake numers of his matrix thewho decided to place a link on his footer. Now every post that he makes has a link to his so called famous Matrix. So your plan backfired. Why dont you get a new log in and start doing something positive with your time. Look at your friend DJ he went back to school. Maybe you could do something like that until you find more work instead of spending your time trying to make TheWho look bad. Just a suggestion.
Boy, it's easy to get consensus when dialoging with oneself. TheWho is the ultimate troll. He trolls HIMSELF incessantly! LOOOOOO-SERRRRRR!
Talk about your "no life" poster, TheWho takes the cake! Here's the really funny part: Everything TheWho posts to degrade others, is actually true about himself - no job, wife left him over "internet issue," kid won't talk to him anymore, etc, etc, etc. Too funny!
Post by: TheWho on December 17, 2007, 09:57:02 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""I remember you. You use to be friends with Dysfunction Junction from HLA, sort of like his little side kick. Then you started trolling TheWho. I thought you left and got a job a long time ago. Why dont you log in anymore? Why dont you troll thewho while logged in?
Yeah, its me. I lost my password so I dont log in anymore, but I am still determined to get thewho banned again. I will just keep posting these posts anon, until the people understand that he needs to go, even if I have to make them up as I go.
did you ever get a job? I remember you use to sit home all day while your wife worked and then you stopped posting here. We all figured you finally started working. You really had it out for thewho I remember. Did you get fired?
Well, I lost my job because my boss was a jerk and didnt understand that I needed more time off than the others did, long story. So while I am waiting for another job to come along I fugured I would hound Thewho. I hate that programmie. did you like what I did with his Matrix? I think it really pissed him off cause he stopped posting it.
RobertBruce you should probably try to find something else to pass the time. By posting the fake numers of his matrix thewho decided to place a link on his footer. Now every post that he makes has a link to his so called famous Matrix. So your plan backfired. Why dont you get a new log in and start doing something positive with your time. Look at your friend DJ he went back to school. Maybe you could do something like that until you find more work instead of spending your time trying to make TheWho look bad. Just a suggestion.
Boy, it's easy to get consensus when dialoging with oneself. TheWho is the ultimate troll. He trolls HIMSELF incessantly! LOOOOOO-SERRRRRR!
Talk about your "no life" poster, TheWho takes the cake! Here's the really funny part: Everything TheWho posts to degrade others, is actually true about himself - no job, wife left him over "internet issue," kid won't talk to him anymore, etc, etc, etc. Too funny!
Devon, thats a great one!! Keep degrading TheWho. That was a great way to turn things around on him. Now everyone thinks he doesnt have a job LOL, instead of yourself.
Post by: Troll Control on December 17, 2007, 10:02:29 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""Devon, thats a great one!! Keep degrading TheWho. That was a great way to turn things around on him. Now everyone thinks he doesnt have a job LOL, instead of yourself.Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""I remember you. You use to be friends with Dysfunction Junction from HLA, sort of like his little side kick. Then you started trolling TheWho. I thought you left and got a job a long time ago. Why dont you log in anymore? Why dont you troll thewho while logged in?
Yeah, its me. I lost my password so I dont log in anymore, but I am still determined to get thewho banned again. I will just keep posting these posts anon, until the people understand that he needs to go, even if I have to make them up as I go.
did you ever get a job? I remember you use to sit home all day while your wife worked and then you stopped posting here. We all figured you finally started working. You really had it out for thewho I remember. Did you get fired?
Well, I lost my job because my boss was a jerk and didnt understand that I needed more time off than the others did, long story. So while I am waiting for another job to come along I fugured I would hound Thewho. I hate that programmie. did you like what I did with his Matrix? I think it really pissed him off cause he stopped posting it.
RobertBruce you should probably try to find something else to pass the time. By posting the fake numers of his matrix thewho decided to place a link on his footer. Now every post that he makes has a link to his so called famous Matrix. So your plan backfired. Why dont you get a new log in and start doing something positive with your time. Look at your friend DJ he went back to school. Maybe you could do something like that until you find more work instead of spending your time trying to make TheWho look bad. Just a suggestion.
Boy, it's easy to get consensus when dialoging with oneself. TheWho is the ultimate troll. He trolls HIMSELF incessantly! LOOOOOO-SERRRRRR!
Talk about your "no life" poster, TheWho takes the cake! Here's the really funny part: Everything TheWho posts to degrade others, is actually true about himself - no job, wife left him over "internet issue," kid won't talk to him anymore, etc, etc, etc. Too funny!
QFT. Keeping the record straight on TheWho!
Post by: Anonymous on December 17, 2007, 10:14:26 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 17, 2007, 11:50:57 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
UhhhHHH..TheWho had his entire digestive tract lined with TEFLON!
TheWho has three nipples -- one on each side, and one in the middle.
Post by: Troll Control on December 17, 2007, 11:54:33 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""UhhhHHH..TheWho had his entire digestive tract lined with TEFLON!TheWho has three nipples -- one on each side, and one in the middle.
And he's an asshole, to top it off.
Post by: Botched Programming on December 17, 2007, 12:06:17 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""UhhhHHH..TheWho had his entire digestive tract lined with TEFLON!TheWho has three nipples -- one on each side, and one in the middle.
And he's an asshole, to top it off.
Nah..... I think Anne Boney said it best when she referred to him as a "confused creature"[/color] ::huh::
Post by: Anne Bonney on December 17, 2007, 12:19:23 PM
Quote from: ""Botched Programming""
Nah..... I think Anne Boney said it best when she referred to him as a "confused creature"[/color] ::huh::
Yeah, start throwing facts around and he gets all flustered.
:roll:
Post by: Anonymous on December 17, 2007, 12:25:01 PM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Yeah, start throwing facts around and he gets all flustered.
:roll:
He's a real nowhere man.
Post by: Anonymous on December 17, 2007, 02:13:56 PM
couldn't keep his offensive hands off of me. He was performing many red flag touches. I
couldnt believe what the fuck was going on. I told TheWho the city would not approve
of a spokesman for programs touching an underage kid for free. Can you believe it? TheWho did all this. He picked me off the street, strapped my arms and legs down in the ASRmobile's passenger seat, and just wouldn't stop fondling my cock'n'balls.
They definately were red flag touches. The goddamn referee he had in the back seat kept on
raising up this red flag every time he touched my junk but did "TheWho" care? NO WAY! He
just kept on doing it. I couldn't believe what the fuckwas going on, indeed. I pleaded with
TheWho but to no avail. I told him the city would not approve of such a old and ugly man
touching an underage kid like me (at the time I was 13) without at least compensating me for
the trauma and the use of my body as his own personal plaything.
This got to him, worrying about his image. he continued to fondle me, all the while ignoring
the referee's red flags. Then he drove the ASRmobile to my house and ejected the seat I was in! It was amazing. But surprisingly, after I woke up the next morning, my bank account had $100.00 in it!!! Can you believe it????????????????????????? The cheap bastard.
Post by: Troll Control on December 17, 2007, 03:41:20 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""OK, here's The Who lying through his teeth yet again (surprise, surprise).
THIS is the original beginning of the argument where YOU said "The overwhelming majority of professionals believe these schools are making a big difference in these kids lives and are responsible for turning them around and getting them on track..." This is the very beginning. You also went back and edited your post later to remove this, but, of course I had already quoted you, so the cat was out of the bag at that point.Quote
On 2006-06-21 09:21:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Quote
The overwhelming majority of professionals believe these schools are making a big difference in these kids lives and are responsible for turning them around and getting them on track...
This is an unmitigated crock of shit. Show the documentation that supports this ridiculous notion.Quote
And yes I believe we are all on equal footing and have a right to state our opinions from our own experiences.
Everyone here has the unabridged right to post what they want. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Your opinion happens to be wrong. It is so wrong that you have to fabricate statements like the one above stating the "overwhelming majority of professionals" recommend this treatment. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. But, hey, that never stops you! :lol:
"
Again, I'll ask you: Can you provide evidence that "The overwhelming majority of professionals believe these schools are making a big difference in these kids lives and are responsible for turning them around and getting them on track..." or can't you?
You've spent two days dodging the issue, editing your posts and lying like a rug to avoid answering for this statement. You said it, now back it up.
You also said "The professionals don't agree with you, DJ" but I was able to provide a list of at least 130 individuals and a half-dozen professional societies consisting of thousands of members. You have provided exactly NOTHING to support your claim.
That's the difference between you and me, Who. I say what I mean, I am accountable for it and provide evidence to support it. You lie, make things up, edit your posts to remove the lies you've been caught in and sign my name to anonymous posts that I didn't write.
You are a pathetic individual.
For the late-comers... The Who has been fully owned time and again by several regular posters.
Bump this thread up so everyone can get a clear picture of what an idiot The Who actually is...
Done!
Post by: TheWho on December 17, 2007, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
TheWho touched my junk liberally. He strapped me in to his ASRmobile and he
couldn't keep his offensive hands off of me. He was performing many red flag touches. I
couldnt believe what the fuck was going on. I told TheWho the city would not approve
of a spokesman for programs touching an underage kid for free. Can you believe it? TheWho did all this. He picked me off the street, strapped my arms and legs down in the ASRmobile's passenger seat, and just wouldn't stop fondling my cock'n'balls.
They definately were red flag touches. The goddamn referee he had in the back seat kept on
raising up this red flag every time he touched my junk but did "TheWho" care? NO WAY! He
just kept on doing it. I couldn't believe what the fuckwas going on, indeed. I pleaded with
TheWho but to no avail. I told him the city would not approve of such a old and ugly man
touching an underage kid like me (at the time I was 13) without at least compensating me for
the trauma and the use of my body as his own personal plaything.
This got to him, worrying about his image. he continued to fondle me, all the while ignoring
the referee's red flags. Then he drove the ASRmobile to my house and ejected the seat I was in! It was amazing. But surprisingly, after I woke up the next morning, my bank account had $100.00 in it!!! Can you believe it????????????????????????? The cheap bastard.
This needs to be Bumped too. We need to discredit this guy somehow. That last post was great. I like how you changed it around to make TheWho look bad.
Keep them coming. I am working on a good one myself but I need to change some quotes around to make it look more believable. This guy is going down.
Post by: Anonymous on December 17, 2007, 04:24:24 PM
Post by: TheWho on December 17, 2007, 04:30:01 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
THE majority of "professionals" need a goddamnn bullet eat shit
Yeah, Lets kill all the professionals, give them the bullit.
Great post.
We need something more directed at thewho to lower his credibility instead of professionals in general. I mean killing professionals is a good post, dont confuse this. But I think we should keep it focused on thewho thats all i am saying.
Post by: Anonymous on December 17, 2007, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
THE majority of "professionals" need a goddamnn bullet eat shit
I'll shit down your neck!
Post by: Anonymous on December 17, 2007, 04:37:45 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""THE majority of "professionals" need a goddamnn bullet eat shit
Yeah, Lets kill all the professionals, give them the bullit.
Great post.
We need something more directed at thewho to lower his credibility instead of professionals in general. I mean killing professionals is a good post, dont confuse this. But I think we should keep it focused on thewho thats all i am saying.
Where can we meet up to iron out the details?
Post by: TheWho on December 17, 2007, 04:39:05 PM
Quote from: ""hail nothing""
Quote from: ""Guest""THE majority of "professionals" need a goddamnn bullet eat shitI'll shit down your neck!
Now thats better. Was that directed at all professionals or at thewho. It wasnt really clear to me.
We need to direct most of our anger towards thewho like this:
TheWho I want to shit down your neck!!
I am not sure what this means but it is loaded with anger which is good.
Post by: Anonymous on December 17, 2007, 06:21:16 PM
"I'm giving you a ride today", she said, flashing that sexy smile of hers and indicating a large Cadillac with tinted windows.
"Thanks CCM Girl. I love you, CCM Girl", I replied, holding her door open for her. I went around to the other side of the car and was shocked to see a bottle of Cutty Sark and a couple of shot glasses in plain sight, right next to a tray of sensimilla and a mirror with two fat, white rails laid out on it.
"Don't be nervous" she said, "we'll just have a little party here. It'll be our little secret." She uncapped the Cutty and took a long pull, then passed me the bottle. I tilted my head back for a long draw of scotch, and heard her snorting up a line as I felt her hand groping at my cock and balls. I took another deep draw from the bottle as fear, revulsion ,and a sick sense of desire filled me.
"It's OK" she said, "here--do a line"
I took the mirror she handed me, and the rolled up $100 bill, and bent down to see my wild-eyed reflection in the mirror as she unzipped my pants.
"I've never done coke before" I said, kind of nervously.
"Oh, that's not cocaine, silly boy, that's PCP. It's very decadent. The Who and I like to do it when we watch bestiality movies we made on our honeymoon".
"Oh", I said, feeling my dick reluctantly getting hard to her touch and a buzzing noise in my head.
"Why don't you roll us a joint?" she said, right before she bent down and swollowed my engorged prick and began skillfully fellating me.
"Sure" I said, feeling hazy yet strangely aroused as she continued inhaling my shaft.
Suddenly she stopped sucking, sat up, and told me to light up the joint I had barely been able to roll. As I lit it up and took a deep toke into my lungs, she pulled down the black polyester slacks she was wearing to reveal that she had no panties on. She took the joint from me, hit it a couple of times, thenthrew herself over the seat, with her ass in the air.
"FUCK ME ! FUCK ME IN THE ASS LIKE THE SLUT I AM!" she screamed, and I plunged my drug-crazed dick into her bung hole, feeling her convulse with joy as I buried my dick in her ass.
She passed the joint back to me and I hit it again and again as I continued probing her anus with my johnson. Sweat poured down my face and I continued to pump her butt as I wiped the perspiration of my forehead. She began screaming again, making wild animal noises, and just as I was about to cum, she yelled out "Look over your shoulder RIGHT NOW!"
Startled, I did as she said, and what I saw when I did was a sight I will never foget. Over my shoulder I saw The Who, dressed in a torn Girl Scout uniform, furiously masturbating himself as he watched us. Then he pulled out a statistic chart printed from “The Matrixâ€
Post by: Troll Control on December 18, 2007, 07:39:19 AM
Quote from: "TBS Yuppie Scum"
Did I ever mention the time I fucked The Who’s whore, CCM Girl? I was a newcomer at a TBS, when one day, after school, I heard an older female voice call from behind me. I turned around, surprised to see CCM Girl.
"I'm giving you a ride today", she said, flashing that sexy smile of hers and indicating a large Cadillac with tinted windows.
"Thanks CCM Girl. I love you, CCM Girl", I replied, holding her door open for her. I went around to the other side of the car and was shocked to see a bottle of Cutty Sark and a couple of shot glasses in plain sight, right next to a tray of sensimilla and a mirror with two fat, white rails laid out on it.
"Don't be nervous" she said, "we'll just have a little party here. It'll be our little secret." She uncapped the Cutty and took a long pull, then passed me the bottle. I tilted my head back for a long draw of scotch, and heard her snorting up a line as I felt her hand groping at my cock and balls. I took another deep draw from the bottle as fear, revulsion ,and a sick sense of desire filled me.
"It's OK" she said, "here--do a line"
I took the mirror she handed me, and the rolled up $100 bill, and bent down to see my wild-eyed reflection in the mirror as she unzipped my pants.
"I've never done coke before" I said, kind of nervously.
"Oh, that's not cocaine, silly boy, that's PCP. It's very decadent. The Who and I like to do it when we watch bestiality movies we made on our honeymoon".
"Oh", I said, feeling my dick reluctantly getting hard to her touch and a buzzing noise in my head.
"Why don't you roll us a joint?" she said, right before she bent down and swollowed my engorged prick and began skillfully fellating me.
"Sure" I said, feeling hazy yet strangely aroused as she continued inhaling my shaft.
Suddenly she stopped sucking, sat up, and told me to light up the joint I had barely been able to roll. As I lit it up and took a deep toke into my lungs, she pulled down the black polyester slacks she was wearing to reveal that she had no panties on. She took the joint from me, hit it a couple of times, thenthrew herself over the seat, with her ass in the air.
"FUCK ME ! FUCK ME IN THE ASS LIKE THE SLUT I AM!" she screamed, and I plunged my drug-crazed dick into her bung hole, feeling her convulse with joy as I buried my dick in her ass.
She passed the joint back to me and I hit it again and again as I continued probing her anus with my johnson. Sweat poured down my face and I continued to pump her butt as I wiped the perspiration of my forehead. She began screaming again, making wild animal noises, and just as I was about to cum, she yelled out "Look over your shoulder RIGHT NOW!"
Startled, I did as she said, and what I saw when I did was a sight I will never foget. Over my shoulder I saw The Who, dressed in a torn Girl Scout uniform, furiously masturbating himself as he watched us. Then he pulled out a statistic chart printed from “The Matrixâ€
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2007, 09:43:14 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2007, 09:49:09 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This needs to be Bumped too. We need to discredit this guy somehow. That last post was great. I like how you changed it around to make TheWho look bad.
Keep them coming. I am working on a good one myself but I need to change some quotes around to make it look more believable. This guy is going down.
What a fucking idiot you are.
:roll:
Post by: Froderik on December 18, 2007, 09:55:42 AM
Post by: Troll Control on December 18, 2007, 10:12:53 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""This needs to be Bumped too. We need to discredit this guy somehow. That last post was great. I like how you changed it around to make TheWho look bad.
Keep them coming. I am working on a good one myself but I need to change some quotes around to make it look more believable. This guy is going down.
What a fucking idiot you are.
:roll:
Yeah, this is just TheWho trolling himself again. Nothing new here...
Post by: TheWho on December 18, 2007, 10:17:54 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Santa Claus""This needs to be Bumped too. We need to discredit this guy somehow. That last post was great. I like how you changed it around to make TheWho look bad.
Keep them coming. I am working on a good one myself but I need to change some quotes around to make it look more believable. This guy is going down.
What a fucking idiot you are.
:roll:
Yeah, this is just TheWho trolling himself again. Nothing new here...
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2007, 10:53:29 AM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Please be specific. :rofl:
Was that you? :rofl:
Knock it off! :flame:
:rofl:
Post by: Froderik on December 18, 2007, 05:04:05 PM
Post by: Botched Programming on December 18, 2007, 05:17:39 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Could someone PLEASE explain (in as much convoluted detail as humanly possible) just what the hell is going on with this thread? :rofl:
Well...... As far as I can tell TBS Yuppie Scum had some sickening sexual experience with CCM Girl and well Who was apparently abusing himself while wearing a torn girl scout uniform.... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: TheWho on December 18, 2007, 05:23:09 PM
He is just picking up where he left off (minus the avatar)
Post by: Froderik on December 18, 2007, 05:33:15 PM
Quote from: ""Botched Programming""
Well...... As far as I can tell TBS Yuppie Scum had some sickening sexual experience with CCM Girl and well Who was apparently abusing himself while wearing a torn girl scout uniform.... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
::bwahaha:: :rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2007, 05:45:23 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I believe it is mostly RobertBruce aka Devon from HLA who is trolling thewhore. He cant sign in because he forgot his password so he is posting all anon now.
He is just picking up where he left off (minus the avatar)
How rich! TheWho refers to himself as "TheWhore". So naughty, Who.
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on December 18, 2007, 06:13:27 PM
1. Under 40.
2. Male.
3. Bottom Rung intern hiredgun brought on board to fetch coffee and do internet damage control for a UHS type mega-conglomerate.
Why?
1. No parent that can afford to send their kid to ASR has the time to sit on the internet all day.
2. His pro-program verbal diahrrea reeks of pure financial interest.
3. His matrix is likely derived from internal UHS docments.
4. His intellect is a notch below Forrest Gump and a notch above Slingblade.
If anyone has any proof otherwise please share.
Post by: Botched Programming on December 18, 2007, 06:19:41 PM
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
4. His intellect is a notch below Forrest Gump [/color]and a notch above Slingblade[/color].
I just have a couple things to say.
(1) momma said life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.
(2) I don't reckon I'll kill anybody.....um huh....... and I like potted meat...... um huh
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on December 18, 2007, 06:28:54 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2007, 06:30:35 PM
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
Who profile:
1. Under 40.
2. Male.
3. Bottom Rung intern hiredgun brought on board to fetch coffee and do internet damage control for a UHS type mega-conglomerate.
Why?
1. No parent that can afford to send their kid to ASR has the time to sit on the internet all day.
2. His pro-program verbal diahrrea reeks of pure financial interest.
3. His matrix is likely derived from internal UHS docments.
4. His intellect is a notch below Forrest Gump and a notch above Slingblade.
If anyone has any proof otherwise please share.
I think he's employed by "bain capital", the umbrella corporation that owns aspen education. Hence, the interest in Hla, aspen education, and The Academy at Swift River. Bain capital is know in the business community as being "culty", and for being unethical and atypically aggressive and "quirky" in it's ruthless pursuit of capital.
As he's not a "real person", but rather a mouthpiece, he should be banned
Post by: Botched Programming on December 18, 2007, 06:30:48 PM
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
Who profile:
1. Under 40.
2. Male.
3. Bottom Rung intern hiredgun brought on board to fetch coffee and do internet damage control for a UHS type mega-conglomerate.
Why?
1. No parent that can afford to send their kid to ASR has the time to sit on the internet all day.
2. His pro-program verbal diahrrea reeks of pure financial interest.
3. His matrix is likely derived from internal UHS docments.
4. His intellect is a notch below Forrest Gump and a notch above Slingblade.
If anyone has any proof otherwise please share.
Shit....... This profile fits that of a cereal killer. A man who would stab fruit loops to death with a spork..
Post by: Che Gookin on December 18, 2007, 06:44:03 PM
They get torpark and come back 30 seconds later.
K?
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on December 18, 2007, 06:51:26 PM
He's likely to be hired directly by Aspen or the mother ship CRC Health Group (http://www.crchealth.com/aspen-education.asp (http://www.crchealth.com/aspen-education.asp)).
You can reach him at
Toll Free Phone: (877)637-6237
Local Phone: (408)998-7260
He's the next cube over from
Jim Dredge President
Patty Evans Chief Marketing Officer, Senior Vice President
Sue Crowell Senior Vice President, Outdoor Education Programs
Mark Dorenfeld Senior Vice President, Residential Schools and Programs
Ruth Moore Senior Vice President, Corporate Compliance
Bo Turner Senior Vice President, Residential Schools and Programs
Thomas Hopkins Vice President and Controller
We should catch a sharks game and then go protest outside of their building.
Post by: TheWho on December 18, 2007, 07:14:10 PM
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
Not Bain. Bain is an asset management (financial services) company.
He's likely to be hired directly by Aspen or the mother ship CRC Health Group (http://www.crchealth.com/aspen-education.asp (http://www.crchealth.com/aspen-education.asp)).
You can reach him at
Toll Free Phone: (877)637-6237
Local Phone: (408)998-7260
He's the next cube over from
Jim Dredge President
Patty Evans Chief Marketing Officer, Senior Vice President
Sue Crowell Senior Vice President, Outdoor Education Programs
Mark Dorenfeld Senior Vice President, Residential Schools and Programs
Ruth Moore Senior Vice President, Corporate Compliance
Bo Turner Senior Vice President, Residential Schools and Programs
Thomas Hopkins Vice President and Controller
We should catch a sharks game and then go protest outside of their building.
If you even think about showing up you will regret it... you will wish you were back at CEDU when I get done with you.... you misbegotten motley-minded moldwarp.... but if you get past Bo's office, take left and if you get that far it will be my treat at the Sharks game (up to 12 people can sit in our Box).
...
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2007, 07:17:51 PM
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
Not Bain. Bain is an asset management (financial services) company.
He's likely to be hired directly by Aspen or the mother ship CRC Health Group (http://www.crchealth.com/aspen-education.asp (http://www.crchealth.com/aspen-education.asp)).
You can reach him at
Toll Free Phone: (877)637-6237
Local Phone: (408)998-7260
He's the next cube over from
Jim Dredge President
Patty Evans Chief Marketing Officer, Senior Vice President
Sue Crowell Senior Vice President, Outdoor Education Programs
Mark Dorenfeld Senior Vice President, Residential Schools and Programs
Ruth Moore Senior Vice President, Corporate Compliance
Bo Turner Senior Vice President, Residential Schools and Programs
Thomas Hopkins Vice President and Controller
We should catch a sharks game and then go protest outside of their building.
<
bain owns aspen. Guess who built bain from the ground up?
http://www.smartbrief.com/news/sifma/in ... 462122323D (http://www.smartbrief.com/news/sifma/industryBW-detail.jsp?id=D32449B9-FF86-446E-96DF-88462122323D)
Mitt Romney
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/04/us/po ... 4bain.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/04/us/politics/04bain.html)
Guess who's on the board of directors, curreently?
Rick Sanitorum. Also, romney donates huge amounts of money to just about every repub official there is, including GW
Also, guess, where bain capital is located?
Bain Capital LLC/Private Equity Inv 5,000 11/14/2006 Newton MA
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:0ag ... cd=4&gl=us (http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:0agGnQIXITAJ:www.campaignmoney.com/political/committees/commonwealth_pac_the.asp%3Fcycle%3D06+%22bain+capital%22+santorum&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us)
Mass, i know, is where who posts from, for a long time at least. Even from Newton, i beleive. Didn't he een hint as much?
If you want to "out" the who, mention bain capital every time you see him.
If you want to really go big. let's foward the info about bain capital and romney to his politcal opponants???????
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on December 18, 2007, 07:21:15 PM
Yes, Bain gives them directives and Bain calls all the shots but they make CRC do all the heavy lifting. In fact this raises an SEC issue.
Post by: Anonymous on December 18, 2007, 07:29:56 PM
Mention bain capital alot, interest will rise up the chain, in all areas
Mitt Romney
Aspen education
CRC Health.
Let's make Bain capital be the stain that takes down Mitt Romney's career, along with their director - Rick Sanitorum, and his collaborators
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on December 18, 2007, 08:11:22 PM
Yes ultimately those who write the checks call the shots (behind closed doors and off the record). But I'm pretty damned sure the SEC will not allow them to operate in a managerial capacity. It would put Bain in a position to get real fucking Enron real fucking quick (aka cooking the books).
Check wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bain_Capital (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bain_Capital)
This Bain dragon is 1 fucking huge monster. I'd imagine there are 100's of layers of authority between BCV and the who.
Even if the SEC allowed them to operate in a managerial capacity no one has the where withall to get hands on with a portfolio of Fortune 500 companies this big:
CRC / Aspen
and..
Clear Channel Communications
3Comm
Burlington Coat Factory
Home Depot Supply
Guitar Center
Bain Capital founded, acquired or invested in hundreds of companies including:
Bright Horizons Family Solutions,
Brookstone,
Domino's Pizza,
Sealy,
The Sports Authority.
and holds positions in major companies including:
Toys R Us,
Burger King
Unisource.
One of the fund's first start-up investments was Staples, Inc.
The scariest part is that it's run by a mormon running for president.
Post by: Troll Control on December 19, 2007, 07:49:33 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Guest""Devon, thats a great one!! Keep degrading TheWho. That was a great way to turn things around on him. Now everyone thinks he doesnt have a job LOL, instead of yourself.Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""I remember you. You use to be friends with Dysfunction Junction from HLA, sort of like his little side kick. Then you started trolling TheWho. I thought you left and got a job a long time ago. Why dont you log in anymore? Why dont you troll thewho while logged in?
Yeah, its me. I lost my password so I dont log in anymore, but I am still determined to get thewho banned again. I will just keep posting these posts anon, until the people understand that he needs to go, even if I have to make them up as I go.
did you ever get a job? I remember you use to sit home all day while your wife worked and then you stopped posting here. We all figured you finally started working. You really had it out for thewho I remember. Did you get fired?
Well, I lost my job because my boss was a jerk and didnt understand that I needed more time off than the others did, long story. So while I am waiting for another job to come along I fugured I would hound Thewho. I hate that programmie. did you like what I did with his Matrix? I think it really pissed him off cause he stopped posting it.
RobertBruce you should probably try to find something else to pass the time. By posting the fake numers of his matrix thewho decided to place a link on his footer. Now every post that he makes has a link to his so called famous Matrix. So your plan backfired. Why dont you get a new log in and start doing something positive with your time. Look at your friend DJ he went back to school. Maybe you could do something like that until you find more work instead of spending your time trying to make TheWho look bad. Just a suggestion.
Boy, it's easy to get consensus when dialoging with oneself. TheWho is the ultimate troll. He trolls HIMSELF incessantly! LOOOOOO-SERRRRRR!
Talk about your "no life" poster, TheWho takes the cake! Here's the really funny part: Everything TheWho posts to degrade others, is actually true about himself - no job, wife left him over "internet issue," kid won't talk to him anymore, etc, etc, etc. Too funny!
QFT. Keeping the record straight on TheWho!
Post by: Anonymous on December 19, 2007, 01:32:14 PM
Quote from: "TBS Yuppie Scum"
Did I ever mention the time I fucked The Who’s whore, CCM Girl? I was a newcomer at a TBS, when one day, after school, I heard an older female voice call from behind me. I turned around, surprised to see CCM Girl.
"I'm giving you a ride today", she said, flashing that sexy smile of hers and indicating a large Cadillac with tinted windows.
"Thanks CCM Girl. I love you, CCM Girl", I replied, holding her door open for her. I went around to the other side of the car and was shocked to see a bottle of Cutty Sark and a couple of shot glasses in plain sight, right next to a tray of sensimilla and a mirror with two fat, white rails laid out on it.
"Don't be nervous" she said, "we'll just have a little party here. It'll be our little secret." She uncapped the Cutty and took a long pull, then passed me the bottle. I tilted my head back for a long draw of scotch, and heard her snorting up a line as I felt her hand groping at my cock and balls. I took another deep draw from the bottle as fear, revulsion ,and a sick sense of desire filled me.
"It's OK" she said, "here--do a line"
I took the mirror she handed me, and the rolled up $100 bill, and bent down to see my wild-eyed reflection in the mirror as she unzipped my pants.
"I've never done coke before" I said, kind of nervously.
"Oh, that's not cocaine, silly boy, that's PCP. It's very decadent. The Who and I like to do it when we watch bestiality movies we made on our honeymoon".
"Oh", I said, feeling my dick reluctantly getting hard to her touch and a buzzing noise in my head.
"Why don't you roll us a joint?" she said, right before she bent down and swollowed my engorged prick and began skillfully fellating me.
"Sure" I said, feeling hazy yet strangely aroused as she continued inhaling my shaft.
Suddenly she stopped sucking, sat up, and told me to light up the joint I had barely been able to roll. As I lit it up and took a deep toke into my lungs, she pulled down the black polyester slacks she was wearing to reveal that she had no panties on. She took the joint from me, hit it a couple of times, thenthrew herself over the seat, with her ass in the air.
"FUCK ME ! FUCK ME IN THE ASS LIKE THE SLUT I AM!" she screamed, and I plunged my drug-crazed dick into her bung hole, feeling her convulse with joy as I buried my dick in her ass.
She passed the joint back to me and I hit it again and again as I continued probing her anus with my johnson. Sweat poured down my face and I continued to pump her butt as I wiped the perspiration of my forehead. She began screaming again, making wild animal noises, and just as I was about to cum, she yelled out "Look over your shoulder RIGHT NOW!"
Startled, I did as she said, and what I saw when I did was a sight I will never foget. Over my shoulder I saw The Who, dressed in a torn Girl Scout uniform, furiously masturbating himself as he watched us. Then he pulled out a statistic chart printed from “The Matrixâ€
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on December 19, 2007, 03:30:39 PM
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
This is not the writing of a grown adult who has a child over the age of 18.
Thats too bad it had that effect on you. My daughters program basically allowed her to mature quickly by giving her a safe enviornment to grow in and when she got home she was more mature than many kids her age.
Its like if you were a senior in highschool and you went back to visit friends who were still stuck in Freshmen year it would be difficult to relate and you would probably move on after a few weeks which is what she did.
get out of here - go back to your cubicle and work on your TPS reports you corporate slave
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
Ask me any question about RMA.
Or should I tell you that Lisa Carey, Brett Carey's wife has a small "A" cup and ran marathons. Brett worked at MBA from 92-97 then headed out in a van to ASR. Brett and lisa met at college back east playing frisbee.
Rea Kreider was at ASR at the same time, his wife, Sharon taught ballet/dance at RMA until 1991.
I know that Joe Sweeney a staff at RMA until around 91 fucked a horse and disclosed it in raps.
There were 4 sets of sinks in the dishroom in the house at RMA. The room was symmetrical. The table in front of it is where they put the meal milk. Above it were pictures of graduates photos.
The walk in freezer was on the left down the back hall and the black cast iron wood stoves were on the right.
Doug Kim Brown had a dog named ABE. his house is up north of BFerry.
Mare Dubovich had a wonderful little son named, Luka, he was about 5 when I was there. He had problems with his vision.
The ram at the farm - his name was rambo. We used to provoke him and the jump up and grab the rafters when he got close.
The greenhouse at the farm -well Alex was in charge of building that.
Peter Blair worked at the nearby nursery when he was an older student. The same nursery that the guy from "the falcon and the snowman" briefly worked at.
Our soccer jerseys were yellow and blue. Rea krieder was the coach . Mike strader who works with Adam up in Maine was the goalie.
Tim Dahlen was the spoiled brat wanna be center forward. Adam rainer played midfield. Adam started and runs Shortridge in Maine
http://www.shortridgeacademy.com/home.a ... nd%20Staff (http://www.shortridgeacademy.com/home.asp?Page=Faculty%20and%20Staff)
Mike Strader works for Adam - Bruce wilson does too.
email adam mike or bruce a copy of this and they'll confirm only a grad knows this
Hannah Mariotti
Director of Admissions and Marketing
(603) 755-3096 x100
(603)755-9096 (fax)
[email protected]
have fun douching your bag you inbred.
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on December 19, 2007, 05:34:54 PM
Hired gun
Hired gun for sale
Hired gun, on the run
He won't fail
Requesting quick, they asked the people
Where's the hired gunman's trail?
He turned into a dark, cold corner
His is the face that is so pale
Hired gun
He's on the run
He has no fun, no
Please sit down, services rendered
Now we must decide the pay
Bargains to bribes, broken agreement
So much more had but to pray
Next a scam to execute, but a bit too cute
So if you're looking for adventure
Go check the hired gun for sale
Hired gun
He's on the run
Better watch out, boy
'cause he don't know fun
Hired gun for sale
Post by: Anonymous on December 19, 2007, 07:40:26 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
You all give TheWhore too much credit. He's not with Bain or Aspen. He's just a loser with no life who's 100% bought into the program. It doesn't matter that his kid fell on her face when she got home, went right back to her old friends, right back to drugs, right back to alcohol and that she disowned TheWhore and will no longer speak to him. She's been SAVED!Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Guest""Devon, thats a great one!! Keep degrading TheWho. That was a great way to turn things around on him. Now everyone thinks he doesnt have a job LOL, instead of yourself.Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""TheWho""I remember you. You use to be friends with Dysfunction Junction from HLA, sort of like his little side kick. Then you started trolling TheWho. I thought you left and got a job a long time ago. Why dont you log in anymore? Why dont you troll thewho while logged in?
Yeah, its me. I lost my password so I dont log in anymore, but I am still determined to get thewho banned again. I will just keep posting these posts anon, until the people understand that he needs to go, even if I have to make them up as I go.
did you ever get a job? I remember you use to sit home all day while your wife worked and then you stopped posting here. We all figured you finally started working. You really had it out for thewho I remember. Did you get fired?
Well, I lost my job because my boss was a jerk and didnt understand that I needed more time off than the others did, long story. So while I am waiting for another job to come along I fugured I would hound Thewho. I hate that programmie. did you like what I did with his Matrix? I think it really pissed him off cause he stopped posting it.
RobertBruce you should probably try to find something else to pass the time. By posting the fake numers of his matrix thewho decided to place a link on his footer. Now every post that he makes has a link to his so called famous Matrix. So your plan backfired. Why dont you get a new log in and start doing something positive with your time. Look at your friend DJ he went back to school. Maybe you could do something like that until you find more work instead of spending your time trying to make TheWho look bad. Just a suggestion.
Boy, it's easy to get consensus when dialoging with oneself. TheWho is the ultimate troll. He trolls HIMSELF incessantly! LOOOOOO-SERRRRRR!
Talk about your "no life" poster, TheWho takes the cake! Here's the really funny part: Everything TheWho posts to degrade others, is actually true about himself - no job, wife left him over "internet issue," kid won't talk to him anymore, etc, etc, etc. Too funny!
QFT. Keeping the record straight on TheWho!
i love the entire conversation he had with himself. There is no future for him in the creative writing field. His dialogue fails to be character specific
Post by: Anonymous on December 20, 2007, 05:23:13 AM
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on December 20, 2007, 05:25:08 PM
On February 6, 2006, investment funds managed by Bain Capital Partners, LLC ("Bain Capital") acquired CRC Health Group, Inc. for a total cash consideration of approximately $742.3 million (including acquisition and financing transactions related fees and expenses of $28.5 million). As a result of the acquisition, Bain Capital received control of the Company. We refer to our acquisition by Bain Capital and the related financings as the "Transactions."
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/1 ... A556B6B%7D (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/10-q-crc-health-corp/story.aspx?guid=%7B1EAB3B0C-7BD2-4270-AA2B-D4A56A556B6B%7D)
Post by: TheWho on December 20, 2007, 08:37:43 PM
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
You're right. Bain owns it outright.
On February 6, 2006, investment funds managed by Bain Capital Partners, LLC ("Bain Capital") acquired CRC Health Group, Inc. for a total cash consideration of approximately $742.3 million (including acquisition and financing transactions related fees and expenses of $28.5 million). As a result of the acquisition, Bain Capital received control of the Company. We refer to our acquisition by Bain Capital and the related financings as the http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/1 ... A556B6B%7D[/url]
Dish, Their definition is correct:
A transaction is an agreement, communication, or movement carried out between separate entities or objects, often involving the exchange of items of value, such as information, goods, services and money.
...
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on December 20, 2007, 10:44:10 PM
According to your 2005 SEC filing Steven Barnes, John Connaughton and
Chris Gordon ALL BAIN employees are directors of CRC Health Group. My financial services terminology is a little rusty but I think directors get to make plenty of important decisions.
Correction
Corporate Governance
Our board of directors manages our business and affairs. Our Sponsor is entitled to designate the members of our board of directors.
Executive Officers and Directors
The following table sets forth information with respect to our directors and executive officers:
Name Age Position
Dr. Barry W. Karlin 51 Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President
Kathleen Sylvia 60 Executive Vice President of Business Development
Philip L. Herschman 58 President, Opiate Treatment Division
Jerome E. Rhodes 48 President, Residential Treatment Division
Kevin Hogge 49 Chief Financial Officer, Vice President and Treasurer
Dr. Thomas J. Brady 53 Chief Medical Officer
Pamela B. Burke 38 Vice President, General Counsel and Secretary
General Barry R. McCaffrey (ret. 63
Directors
Steven Barnes 46 Director
John Connaughton 40 Director
Chris Gordon 33 Director
http://ir.10kwizard.com/filing.php?repo ... ource=1321 (http://ir.10kwizard.com/filing.php?repo=tenk&ipage=4310007&doc=1&num=87&total=434&source=1321)
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on December 20, 2007, 10:52:00 PM
Hunter: Romney should denounce Bain Capital's Chinese ties
WASHINGTON (CNN) — Congressman Duncan Hunter, R-California, who is running for President, called on Mitt Romney, another GOP candidate, to take a public stance on the proposed partnership between the private equity firm Romney founded and a Chinese-based company.
Before running for Governor of Massachusetts in 2002, Romney was the CEO and founder of Bain Capital Partners, a highly successful venture capital and investment firm based in Boston which currently manages more than $50 billion in assets, according to the company's website.
Last month, Bain Capital and China's Huawei Technology purchased 3Com in a deal valued at $2.2 billion. The deal gave the Chinese company a minority stake in 3Com, an internet security company.
Hunter says that 3Com has contracts with the U.S. Dept. of Defense. However, Bain Capital tells CNN 3Com does not contract with the U.S. government directly, and the Chinese company will not have access to sensitive U.S.-origin technology or U.S. government sales as a result of this transaction.
In a letter addressed to Romney, provided to CNN by Hunter's campaign, Hunter claims the Chinese company has ties to Saddam Hussein and the Taliban and asks Romney to come forward with a "clear statement" in opposition to the deal sealed last October.
The Bain Capital deal in question "can only be characterized as irresponsible," Hunter said in a written statement.
In September, other Republicans in the House called on the Bush administration to block the merger and proposed a resolution that says the deal "threatens the national security of the United States and should not be approved by the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States."
Romney's campaign provided CNN the following statement in response to the request from Hunter, "Governor Romney is no longer involved in Bain Capital and their investment decisions."
Click here to see CNN's new political portal: CNNPolitics.com
– CNN Political Assignment Editor Katy Byron
Post by: TheWho on December 20, 2007, 10:52:49 PM
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
My financial services terminology is a little rusty but I think directors get to make plenty of important decisions.
Yes, within their domain. typically it takes two officers to concur for any major decision. Any decision or corporate change which could impact profits by more than 1% requires a full staff meeting or directors vote.
So unilateral decisions can be made quickly as long as you stay within your jurisdiction.
...
Post by: Anonymous on December 21, 2007, 10:12:52 AM
http://www.smartbrief.com/news/sifma/in ... 462122323D (http://www.smartbrief.com/news/sifma/industryBW-detail.jsp?id=D32449B9-FF86-446E-96DF-88462122323D)
Mitt Romney
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/04/us/po ... 4bain.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/04/us/politics/04bain.html)
Guess who's on the board of directors, curreently?
Rick Sanitorum. Also, romney donates huge amounts of money to just about every repub official there is, including GW
Also, guess, where bain capital is located?
Bain Capital LLC/Private Equity Inv 5,000 11/14/2006 Newton MA
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:0ag ... cd=4&gl=us (http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:0agGnQIXITAJ:www.campaignmoney.com/political/committees/commonwealth_pac_the.asp%3Fcycle%3D06+%22bain+capital%22+santorum&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us)
Mass, i know, is where who posts from, for a long time at least. Even from Newton, i beleive. Didn't he een hint as much?
If you want to "out" the who, mention bain capital every time you see him.
If you want to really go big. let's foward the info about bain capital and romney to his politcal opponants???????
If this guy's a representative, he's terrible. But I guess there's only so much denying of facts you can do before you loose all credibility, no matter how smooth you are.
Can you imagine if he really is just some nut who LOVES programs, and sits there all alone all day posting here? SAD
Post by: Troll Control on December 21, 2007, 12:48:10 PM
Quote
Can you imagine if he really is just some nut who LOVES programs, and sits there all alone all day posting here? SAD
In fact, that's what he is.
He encourages you to speculate about his "business dealings" because it throws you off the track of what exactly he really is, which turns out to be a fully bought-in program supporter whose child will no longer speak to him due to what he perpetrated upon her by sending her to ASR. Point blank.
Post by: Ursus on December 21, 2007, 01:19:13 PM
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
According to your 2005 SEC filing Steven Barnes, John Connaughton and Chris Gordon ALL BAIN employees are directors of CRC Health Group.
I think that is pretty routine when these program companies pair up with a financier. The money company always puts a few of its own on the BOD to ensure that things stay solvent.
See also the Solacium thread for a look at another of these setups (albeit on a much smaller scale). This is the cluster Alldredge Academy ended up in.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=24481 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=24481)
Post by: Anonymous on December 21, 2007, 01:33:52 PM
a psycho looser, or a paid representitive...or, come to think of it, perhaps both?
Post by: TheWho on December 21, 2007, 01:43:06 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
ok, administrator, plese just post his ip here. And the more gifted amongst us will find out who this bitch is. pretty please?
a psycho looser, or a paid representitive...or, come to think of it, perhaps both?
or just a program parent.
Post by: Anonymous on December 21, 2007, 01:52:21 PM
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "who" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for them
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: TheWho on December 21, 2007, 02:03:31 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "who" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: Anonymous on December 21, 2007, 02:10:14 PM
"I'm giving you a ride today", she said, flashing that sexy smile of hers and indicating a large Cadillac with tinted windows.
"Thanks CCM Girl. I love you, CCM Girl", I replied, holding her door open for her. I went around to the other side of the car and was shocked to see a bottle of Cutty Sark and a couple of shot glasses in plain sight, right next to a tray of sensimilla and a mirror with two fat, white rails laid out on it.
"Don't be nervous" she said, "we'll just have a little party here. It'll be our little secret." She uncapped the Cutty and took a long pull, then passed me the bottle. I tilted my head back for a long draw of scotch, and heard her snorting up a line as I felt her hand groping at my cock and balls. I took another deep draw from the bottle as fear, revulsion ,and a sick sense of desire filled me.
"It's OK" she said, "here--do a line"
I took the mirror she handed me, and the rolled up $100 bill, and bent down to see my wild-eyed reflection in the mirror as she unzipped my pants.
"I've never done coke before" I said, kind of nervously.
"Oh, that's not cocaine, silly boy, that's PCP. It's very decadent. The Who and I like to do it when we watch bestiality movies we made on our honeymoon".
"Oh", I said, feeling my dick reluctantly getting hard to her touch and a buzzing noise in my head.
"Why don't you roll us a joint?" she said, right before she bent down and swollowed my engorged prick and began skillfully fellating me.
"Sure" I said, feeling hazy yet strangely aroused as she continued inhaling my shaft.
Suddenly she stopped sucking, sat up, and told me to light up the joint I had barely been able to roll. As I lit it up and took a deep toke into my lungs, she pulled down the black polyester slacks she was wearing to reveal that she had no panties on. She took the joint from me, hit it a couple of times, thenthrew herself over the seat, with her ass in the air.
"FUCK ME ! FUCK ME IN THE ASS LIKE THE SLUT I AM!" she screamed, and I plunged my drug-crazed dick into her bung hole, feeling her convulse with joy as I buried my dick in her ass.
She passed the joint back to me and I hit it again and again as I continued probing her anus with my johnson. Sweat poured down my face and I continued to pump her butt as I wiped the perspiration of my forehead. She began screaming again, making wild animal noises, and just as I was about to cum, she yelled out "Look over your shoulder RIGHT NOW!"
Startled, I did as she said, and what I saw when I did was a sight I will never foget. Over my shoulder I saw The Who, dressed in a torn Girl Scout uniform, furiously masturbating himself as he watched us. Then he pulled out a statistic chart printed from “The Matrixâ€
Post by: Anonymous on December 21, 2007, 08:58:08 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "who" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: TheWho on December 21, 2007, 09:37:29 PM
Quote
You’ve already said it's impossible to kidnap humans under 18
He never said that.
Post by: Anonymous on December 21, 2007, 09:59:55 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
QuoteYou’ve already said it's impossible to kidnap humans under 18
He never said that.
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteEscort services take kids AGASINT THEIR WILL, in handcuffs, or drugged, to programs. There are articles about this all over the net. Type in "want to make your kid disappear". There is another medical survey available by typing in "Alison pinto" where kidnapping is described in detail by the victims. There are police reports available everywhere about this subject. They also verify that though they are notified of the abducting, the police do nothing, as they consider it the right of the parent. Type in "close thayler learning academy" or "abduction "intervention" this info is all readily available.. You are lying.They are not abductions or kidnapping (you watch too many movies). I think the problem most kids are having understanding this is that before you are of age (18 or 21) the parents make the rules and have all the say in what you do. If they want to "home school" you that is their choice. If they decide to hire an escort service (bus company) to pick you up against your will and drive you to a public institution (local public school), kicking and screaming, to get you an education, then that is their choice also (whether it is a local public school or a TBS). The police are not going to come to your rescue nor should they unless there is a teacher who is abusing you and then you need to talk to your parents. But all this talk of abduction and kidnapping is such crap.. all kids are forced to do what the parents decide until they are of age.
QuoteAnd you are lying about something that is easy to verify as a lie. Thank you for spoiling whatever credibility you have in the eyes of whoever may be witnessing your bullshit.
This happened to me, personally. Are you saying, monster child torturer, that I am lying??
Yes I am, I am saying you are lying. As long as your parents gave consent then there is no crime. The law allows for emancipation if you choose to head out on your own.. but if you don’t choose this then don’t belly ached and blame others. Either emancipate yourself or wait until you are of age to care for yourself.
...
Owned.
Or, perhpas, i should be more specific: the who says it's impossible to abduct a human under 18 of their parents permit it tohappen.
Similarly, if a father rapes his daughter, it's not rape, as he permits this to happen
Who works for bain capital which owns crc health which owns aspen education, whose headquarters is located in newton mass.
Post by: TheWho on December 21, 2007, 10:13:51 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""QuoteYou’ve already said it's impossible to kidnap humans under 18
He never said that.Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteEscort services take kids AGASINT THEIR WILL, in handcuffs, or drugged, to programs. There are articles about this all over the net. Type in "want to make your kid disappear". There is another medical survey available by typing in "Alison pinto" where kidnapping is described in detail by the victims. There are police reports available everywhere about this subject. They also verify that though they are notified of the abducting, the police do nothing, as they consider it the right of the parent. Type in "close thayler learning academy" or "abduction "intervention" this info is all readily available.. You are lying.They are not abductions or kidnapping (you watch too many movies). I think the problem most kids are having understanding this is that before you are of age (18 or 21) the parents make the rules and have all the say in what you do. If they want to "home school" you that is their choice. If they decide to hire an escort service (bus company) to pick you up against your will and drive you to a public institution (local public school), kicking and screaming, to get you an education, then that is their choice also (whether it is a local public school or a TBS). The police are not going to come to your rescue nor should they unless there is a teacher who is abusing you and then you need to talk to your parents. But all this talk of abduction and kidnapping is such crap.. all kids are forced to do what the parents decide until they are of age.
QuoteAnd you are lying about something that is easy to verify as a lie. Thank you for spoiling whatever credibility you have in the eyes of whoever may be witnessing your bullshit.
This happened to me, personally. Are you saying, monster child torturer, that I am lying??
Yes I am, I am saying you are lying. As long as your parents gave consent then there is no crime. The law allows for emancipation if you choose to head out on your own.. but if you don’t choose this then don’t belly ached and blame others. Either emancipate yourself or wait until you are of age to care for yourself.
...
Owned.
Or, perhpas, i should be more specific: the who says it's impossible to abduct a human under 18 of their parents permit it tohappen.
Similarly, if a father rapes his daughter, it's not rape, as he permits this to happen
Who works for bain capital which owns crc health which owns aspen education, whose headquarters is located in newton mass.
I read it twice and I still dont see where he says it is impossible to kidnap humans under 18. Seems that you are the liar.
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on December 21, 2007, 10:17:57 PM
I know plenty of peers & graduates that were abducted (under age 16) by Mike par etc.
I'll contact them and get their stories.
my parents contacted a few bounty hunters - I'll document that and make it available.
ddf
Post by: Anonymous on December 22, 2007, 04:25:32 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""QuoteYou’ve already said it's impossible to kidnap humans under 18
He never said that.Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteEscort services take kids AGASINT THEIR WILL, in handcuffs, or drugged, to programs. There are articles about this all over the net. Type in "want to make your kid disappear". There is another medical survey available by typing in "Alison pinto" where kidnapping is described in detail by the victims. There are police reports available everywhere about this subject. They also verify that though they are notified of the abducting, the police do nothing, as they consider it the right of the parent. Type in "close thayler learning academy" or "abduction "intervention" this info is all readily available.. You are lying.They are not abductions or kidnapping (you watch too many movies). I think the problem most kids are having understanding this is that before you are of age (18 or 21) the parents make the rules and have all the say in what you do. If they want to "home school" you that is their choice. If they decide to hire an escort service (bus company) to pick you up against your will and drive you to a public institution (local public school), kicking and screaming, to get you an education, then that is their choice also (whether it is a local public school or a TBS). The police are not going to come to your rescue nor should they unless there is a teacher who is abusing you and then you need to talk to your parents. But all this talk of abduction and kidnapping is such crap.. all kids are forced to do what the parents decide until they are of age.
QuoteAnd you are lying about something that is easy to verify as a lie. Thank you for spoiling whatever credibility you have in the eyes of whoever may be witnessing your bullshit.
This happened to me, personally. Are you saying, monster child torturer, that I am lying??
Yes I am, I am saying you are lying. As long as your parents gave consent then there is no crime. The law allows for emancipation if you choose to head out on your own.. but if you don’t choose this then don’t belly ached and blame others. Either emancipate yourself or wait until you are of age to care for yourself.
...
Owned.
Or, perhpas, i should be more specific: the who says it's impossible to abduct a human under 18 of their parents permit it tohappen.
Similarly, if a father rapes his daughter, it's not rape, as he permits this to happen
Who works for bain capital which owns crc health which owns aspen education, whose headquarters is located in newton mass.
I read it twice and I still dont see where he says it is impossible to kidnap humans under 18. Seems that you are the liar.
OK, i made my point sloppily. He said he doesn't think young people are human. Humans are abducted. He thinks they are property. Property can only be "stolen".
Therefore, if the family of the human being under 18 are ok with it, they can be abducted, and this doesn't count as abduction. It's removal. So, he thinks it's impossible for young people to be kidnapped if their families OK's it.
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2007, 07:17:20 AM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "who" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2007, 08:02:07 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "who" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: Che Gookin on December 23, 2007, 08:14:44 AM
Post by: TheWho on December 23, 2007, 09:07:59 AM
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
doubled owned
I know plenty of peers & graduates that were abducted (under age 16) by Mike par etc.
I'll contact them and get their stories.
my parents contacted a few bounty hunters - I'll document that and make it available.
ddf
If we are going to redefine the term, we need to include the kids that are kinapped by school bus drivers against their will and taken to public institutions.
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2007, 09:13:01 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""doubled owned
I know plenty of peers & graduates that were abducted (under age 16) by Mike par etc.
I'll contact them and get their stories.
my parents contacted a few bounty hunters - I'll document that and make it available.
ddf
If we are going to redefine the term, we need to include the kids that are kinapped by school bus drivers against their will and taken to public institutions.
asshole, when busdrivers begin coming into your room, putting you in cuffs, or perhaps just dragging you by your hair, shoving you into a van, and SITTING ON YOU as they drive you cross country, beat you if you try to escape ,or perhaps hog tie you....
THEN we can call it kidnapping cause that would be the right word for it.
THATS NO REDEFINITION OF THE TERM
Post by: Ursus on December 23, 2007, 09:19:07 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
If we are going to redefine the term, we need to include the kids that are kinapped by school bus drivers against their will and taken to public institutions.
= OBFUSCATION by exaggeration of conditions to ridiculous proportions. At public institutions, they also go home at the end of the day.
Happy Holidays, Who! :D
Post by: Froderik on December 23, 2007, 11:57:17 AM
Or don't...
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on December 23, 2007, 12:07:28 PM
we need to incljude the keanau reeves bus driver that hijacked your brain.
he kidnapped your soul, emptied you out and fillled you up with 30 gallons of dumbfuck.
you ride the short bus. they invented the short bus for you.
your name is 5point or maybe helmet.
Post by: TheWho on December 23, 2007, 09:33:50 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""doubled owned
I know plenty of peers & graduates that were abducted (under age 16) by Mike par etc.
I'll contact them and get their stories.
my parents contacted a few bounty hunters - I'll document that and make it available.
ddf
If we are going to redefine the term, we need to include the kids that are kinapped by school bus drivers against their will and taken to public institutions.
asshole, when busdrivers begin coming into your room, putting you in cuffs, or perhaps just dragging you by your hair, shoving you into a van, and SITTING ON YOU as they drive you cross country, beat you if you try to escape ,or perhaps hog tie you....
THEN we can call it kidnapping cause that would be the right word for it.
THATS NO REDEFINITION OF THE TERM
So it sounds like if we elliminate the dragging by the hair and sitting on you and train the people not to beat you then it may be okay. I would not want my kid beaten either,nor would any other parent.
If any bus driver did this the town would have his job, so we should have the same expectations across the board.
Post by: TheWho on December 23, 2007, 09:38:03 PM
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
"If we are going to redefine the term, we need to include the kids that are kinapped by school bus drivers against their will and taken to public institutions."
we need to incljude the keanau reeves bus driver that hijacked your brain.
he kidnapped your soul, emptied you out and fillled you up with 30 gallons of dumbfuck.
you ride the short bus. they invented the short bus for you.
your name is 5point or maybe helmet.
That is an extremely strange response. I have no idea what you are talking about.
Post by: TheWho on December 23, 2007, 09:53:08 PM
If this is happening then parents need to jump all over this and make sure their child isnt treated this way.
...
Post by: Che Gookin on December 23, 2007, 10:05:42 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Look, cut the crap, it is more of a training issue. There are bus drivers who shouldn’t be driving buses and some who should not be around children. Escort services have the same problems as school disticts do. Whether you are releasing your child to a bus driver or to an escort service you need to make sure the proper background checks are done. School bus drivers should not be sitting on kids and neither should escort services….check with the service you are dealing with and get comfortable with their procedures… if they handcuff kids or beat them then look for another agency.
If this is happening then parents need to jump all over this and make sure their child isnt treated this way.
...
Do school districts really have problems with driver's kidnapping kids and dragging them away to school in handcuffs?
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2007, 10:19:07 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Look, cut the crap, it is more of a training issue. There are bus drivers who shouldn’t be driving buses and some who should not be around children. Escort services have the same problems as school disticts do. Whether you are releasing your child to a bus driver or to an escort service you need to make sure the proper background checks are done. School bus drivers should not be sitting on kids and neither should escort services….check with the service you are dealing with and get comfortable with their procedures…
You feeble bitch. Why are you passing the responsibility of doing employment background checks onto parents? Consider regulations, Bain-boy.
Quote from: ""TheWho""
if they handcuff kids or beat them then look for another agency. If this is happening then parents need to jump all over this and make sure their child isnt treated this way.
No, no, no...why are you stopping short? "Look for another agency"? You need to call the fucking police and have these nutbags arrested for being the child abusing pieces of shit they are. Don't just pass the buck onto somebody else and check with another service.
Merry Christmas, Bain-bitch. I have no doubt you'll find a lump of dog shit at the bottom of your stocking, and I hope the New Year brings more shit to you until you implode, wither, and disappear.
Post by: Nihilanthic on December 23, 2007, 10:27:40 PM
Quote
if they handcuff kids or beat them then look for another agency. If this is happening then parents need to jump all over this and make sure their child isnt treated this way.
No, the people who do that should go to jail.
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2007, 10:29:06 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""doubled owned
I know plenty of peers & graduates that were abducted (under age 16) by Mike par etc.
I'll contact them and get their stories.
my parents contacted a few bounty hunters - I'll document that and make it available.
ddf
If we are going to redefine the term, we need to include the kids that are kinapped by school bus drivers against their will and taken to public institutions.
asshole, when busdrivers begin coming into your room, putting you in cuffs, or perhaps just dragging you by your hair, shoving you into a van, and SITTING ON YOU as they drive you cross country, beat you if you try to escape ,or perhaps hog tie you....
THEN we can call it kidnapping cause that would be the right word for it.
THATS NO REDEFINITION OF THE TERM
So it sounds like if we elliminate the dragging by the hair and sitting on you and train the people not to beat you then it may be okay. I would not want my kid beaten either,nor would any other parent.
If any bus driver did this the town would have his job, so we should have the same expectations across the board.
What weord game are you playing? type in teen escort or want your child to dissapear in google and you'll get 1000 links to articles describing abduction. Do you really think by this weird equation of abduction with getting a ride to school you are gogint o erase reality.
Abduction -a man forcibly, physically, enters a humans room/house, and forcibly, physically, if need be, drags the human to where he wishes them to go.
Getting a ride- a human volentarily, without threat or use of physcial force by kidnapper, travels to a pre-agreed upon point.
enough of this bullshit back and forth. Description of abduction
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:AZO ... cd=1&gl=us (http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:AZOSYvCNKHMJ:www.legalaffairs.org/issues/July-August-2004/feature_labi_julaug04.msp+want+to+make+your+kid+disappear&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us)
Is there such a thing as kidnappeing? It looks like I didn't speak incorrectly in regards to you people: you don't think abduction of a human being is possible
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2007, 10:31:37 PM
who works for bain capital owner of crc health owner of aspen education funder of mitt romney, presidential candidate
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2007, 11:08:17 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2007, 11:12:05 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Oops. Sorry about the many typos.
who works for bain capital owner of crc health owner of aspen education funder of mitt romney, presidential candidate
Mitt...TheWho is my Chosen One, who will receive the new Golden Tablets and build the Promised Salt Lake City in the clouds with that Black fella from Star Wars. After that, he'll be eviscerated by dingoes in a bizarre "Aspen in the Outback" accident. Jesus will return then, reborn in a Native American-owned gambling casino, strewing $1,000 chips on the ground for those who recognize His Divine Nature under the alien snake skin he'll be wearing. I will return in the form of 12-foot, multi-penised turquoise Deity and take 666 wives. I'll want them fat, greased, and ready for four-on-the-floor action from an ace #1 Cosmic Nut-boy, with a battery of qualified-to-satisfy phalli all over his blue-green ass.
But first, Mitt - kill all the fucking Masons for the shit they done to me. Will no one help the widow's son? No, they wouldn't, so dispatch every secret handshaking Free Mason bastard to Brigham Young in hell. Oh, yeah...make sure the New Jesus is shielded from seeing nail guns, claw hammers, and telephone poles - He won't know a telephone pole from a Roman double-toothpick of death, and He'll trip balls if he sees one.
Post by: TheWho on December 23, 2007, 11:34:16 PM
Quote from: ""Che Gookin""
Do school districts really have problems with driver's kidnapping kids and dragging them away to school in handcuffs?
No but a line should be drawn. There are kids who do not want to go to school and are forced to stand outside in the cold until a bus comes along and takes them to an institution. These bus drivers do not have proper background checks, some have drinking problems and still others abuse some of the kids on their bus and threaten them. Many sexually abuse these children on the way to school.
http://http://www.azcentral.com/community/gilbert/articles/1108gr-busdriver08-on.html
http://http://www.kxmd.com/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=185649
http://http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/09/16/2007-09-16_news_uncovers_225_more_cases_of_school_b.html
these are just ones I randomly picked today.
You also mention escort services. The parents should check with the agency to make sure their child isn’t handcuffed and beaten while being transported to their program and/or choose an agency who doesnt utilize these practices, end of problem. Problems with escort services pale to what the real issue is with these kids being abused on buses.
...
Post by: Anonymous on December 23, 2007, 11:52:20 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
No but a line should be drawn. There are kids who do not want to go to school and are forced to stand outside in the cold until a bus comes along and takes them to an institution. These bus drivers do not have proper background checks, some have drinking problems and still others abuse some of the kids on their bus and threaten them. Many sexually abuse these children on the way to school....
This is reductio ad absurdum, and a waste of time. Once again, shouldn't the schools (and programs) be responsible for conducting thorough background checks on potential employees who'll be working with children?
Quote from: ""TheWho""
You also mention escort services. The parents should check with the agency to make sure their child isn’t handcuffed and beaten while being transported to their program and/or choose an agency who doesnt utilize these practices, end of problem. Problems with escort services pale to what the real issue is with these kids being abused on buses.
...
Yeah, call up the escort service and ask if they plan to brutalize your kid if you hire them to do the dirty work. I'm sure some honest, failed football player or fired/disgraced cop is going to volunteer information about the measures they'll take to get your lil' monster from point A to Hell.
You mentally challenged loser, are you really this fucking dumb or are you drunk of Milwaukee's Best?
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2007, 12:00:45 AM
Post by: TheWho on December 24, 2007, 07:53:03 AM
My neighbor has a daughter who attends an all girls school in the Midwest. There have been a few times that the parents could not go with her back to school so they hired an escort service to accompany her back. You just need to do the proper research to find a good service.
I have never heard of someone wanting to have their child taken away to an unknown destination. I think if this ever happened it would make national headlines and they would all go to jail.
Post by: Che Gookin on December 24, 2007, 08:01:05 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2007, 10:54:32 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I agree with anon, I think that the bus companies and escort services should perform their own background checks. If a particular escort service has harmed children in the past then they should be shut down or avoided.
My neighbor has a daughter who attends an all girls school in the Midwest. There have been a few times that the parents could not go with her back to school so they hired an escort service to accompany her back. You just need to do the proper research to find a good service.
I have never heard of someone wanting to have their child taken away to an unknown destination. I think if this ever happened it would make national headlines and they would all go to jail.
QFTing TheWho
Post by: ZenAgent on December 24, 2007, 12:30:07 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I agree with anon, I think that the bus companies and escort services should perform their own background checks. If a particular escort service has harmed children in the past then they should be shut down or avoided.
My neighbor has a daughter who attends an all girls school in the Midwest. There have been a few times that the parents could not go with her back to school so they hired an escort service to accompany her back. You just need to do the proper research to find a good service.
I have never heard of someone wanting to have their child taken away to an unknown destination. I think if this ever happened it would make national headlines and they would all go to jail.
So many kids get taken to Peninsula Village under the illusion the place is some kind of Summer camp, we thought about renting a billboard on the highway before you enter the PV boonies saying "Don't believe them - Peninsula Village is hell. Get away!"
Post by: Che Gookin on December 24, 2007, 12:41:23 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2007, 06:38:24 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Quote from: ""Guest""I agree with anon, I think that the bus companies and escort services should perform their own background checks. If a particular escort service has harmed children in the past then they should be shut down or avoided.
My neighbor has a daughter who attends an all girls school in the Midwest. There have been a few times that the parents could not go with her back to school so they hired an escort service to accompany her back. You just need to do the proper research to find a good service.
I have never heard of someone wanting to have their child taken away to an unknown destination. I think if this ever happened it would make national headlines and they would all go to jail.
So many kids get taken to Peninsula Village under the illusion the place is some kind of Summer camp, we thought about renting a billboard on the highway before you enter the PV boonies saying "Don't believe them - Peninsula Village is hell. Get away!"
She means the PARENTS know where the kids are going. The humans the parents have abducted don't know where they are going, or have control over it.
I'm glad by posting that article they have now stopped lying about how "escort" is not abduction, and is just like getting the bus.
Now they're trying new means of confusion. Weird. Everytime they want to discredit something, even something that is completely out in the open- like the paid human slave shippers, ("escort services" who abduct human beings, as if they were the property of their families,) they say "but if that happened there would be national headliines."
Well, this article shows the medias reaction to the systematic abduction and torture of human beings. It generates a one time special interest story.(at best) One mention, then down the memory hole. if it even gets a mention
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2007, 06:51:28 PM
Post by: Anonymous on December 24, 2007, 07:29:24 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I agree with anon, I think that the bus companies and escort services should perform their own background checks. If a particular escort service has harmed children in the past then they should be shut down or avoided.
My neighbor has a daughter who attends an all girls school in the Midwest. There have been a few times that the parents could not go with her back to school so they hired an escort service to accompany her back. You just need to do the proper research to find a good service.
I have never heard of someone wanting to have their child taken away to an unknown destination. I think if this ever happened it would make national headlines and they would all go to jail.
Actually, parents who tried to put their kids in Tranquility Bay did go to jail. It didn't make those "national headlines," though, that you keep referring to. There is enough information available about TB that the judge considered it tanamount to child endangerment. Sadly, he felt the laws allow guardians to pay people to abduct their offspring and hold them captive until they are 18, so they weren't charded on kidnapping
So your "friend" hired men to abduct their daughter and taker her to a private prison in the midwest. Nice. Luckily, they're fictional. Otherwise, they, just maybe, might get sued by their kid a couple years down the line
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on December 25, 2007, 12:57:02 AM
You rock! You're refering to Lando Calrisian (sp) , Lando is that very well spoken Black gentleman that Runs cloud city. Great place, the tri-tip buffets are delicious. Just keep an eye out for Vader. And maybe duct tape your lightsaber to your hand.
"A dingo ate your baby". Nice outback work there mate.
"Jesus will return" - halleljuah -halleljuah -halleljuah- halleljuah.
"The redman's casino" hell yes! Let's go cut up some felt - I'm down for some blackjack and 3 card poker.
Arguing about what defines kidnapping makes about as much sense as my 'cite my favorite movies' banter.
The fact that a parent doesn't have one relative or one friend that the kid can trust enough to get on an airplane with is beside me.
What does that say about our society when families become that alienated.
I'll end on irony. Bounty hunters looking for fugitives .....
"These are not the droids you are looking for" - OB1 to stormtrooper. Just outside of the Tattoine spaceport with the bitchin alien bar that Han smokes Guido in.
Post by: Anonymous on December 25, 2007, 07:05:15 AM
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""
"build the Promised Salt Lake City in the clouds with that Black fella from Star Wars. After that, he'll be eviscerated by dingoes in a bizarre "Aspen in the Outback" accident. Jesus will return then, reborn in a Native American-owned gambling casino, strewing $1,000 chips on the ground "
The fact that a parent doesn't have one relative or one friend that the kid can trust enough to get on an airplane with is beside me.
.
It's more like if a parent tried to physically force a 12 -17 year old to go anywhere, the police would intervene.
Getting “escorts" gives the abduction a professional sheen that seems to dazzle the fuzz into holding back with its "official" connotations
Post by: TheWho on December 25, 2007, 07:18:04 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive"""build the Promised Salt Lake City in the clouds with that Black fella from Star Wars. After that, he'll be eviscerated by dingoes in a bizarre "Aspen in the Outback" accident. Jesus will return then, reborn in a Native American-owned gambling casino, strewing $1,000 chips on the ground "
The fact that a parent doesn't have one relative or one friend that the kid can trust enough to get on an airplane with is beside me.
.
It's more like if a parent tried to physically force a 12 -17 year old to go anywhere, the police would intervene.
Getting “escorts" gives the abduction a professional sheen that seems to dazzle the fuzz into holding back with its "official" connotations
Exactly, The person is picked up at one place and escorted to another. There are differences in services: Some children are escorted, when they fly, by members of the airlines if they are under the age of 12. The airlines could opt to call them abductors but they choose escorts. The same for escort services which transport children to various schools or programs. If you look at their web sites they choose the word escort not abductors. I guess it all has to do with what you are use to. I have noticed many here on fornits like abductors better so they are sort of interchangable here.
Outside of fornits you may get some looks if you say your child is being abducted by his aunt on Tuesday for a few days to go to the beach.
Post by: TheWho on December 25, 2007, 09:07:35 PM
Post by: TheWho on December 25, 2007, 09:18:10 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The word abduction is used to try to shock parents. Anyone who has read here knows that. Its just kids trying to get attention, "Oh!! I was abducted and forced to visit my grandmother against my wishes on christams!!" or like when they say their high school is a prison and they are forced to go everyday or the food in the cafeteria is poison. Most kids talk this way, it is a natural part of growing up. Most kids get past it in their early twenties.
Look, the drama is mostly the girls. They are more apt to say they were abducted by their parents and forced to visit their grandparents. Guys arent going to say stuff like that, lets not lump them both together. If a guy screws up and is abusive towards his family and frinds at home and eventually ends up getting the help he needs in a program, they are less apt to belly ache about being abducted or blaming his parents and brothers and sisters. But they do all get over all the drama in their mid twenties, I can see your point on that one.
Post by: psy on December 25, 2007, 09:47:06 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: ""Guest""The word abduction is used to try to shock parents. Anyone who has read here knows that. Its just kids trying to get attention, "Oh!! I was abducted and forced to visit my grandmother against my wishes on christams!!" or like when they say their high school is a prison and they are forced to go everyday or the food in the cafeteria is poison. Most kids talk this way, it is a natural part of growing up. Most kids get past it in their early twenties.
American Heritage Dictionary:
ab·duct (Ä
Post by: Froderik on December 25, 2007, 09:58:24 PM
Post by: TheWho on December 25, 2007, 10:18:19 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
How about shanghaied?
I like shanghaied. It has a mysterious flavor to it, like heading out to sea for a year or two and come back a better person. We should switch to shanhaied
Post by: Anonymous on December 25, 2007, 10:21:28 PM
Description of an abduction being taken to a private detention center:
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:AZO ... cd=1&gl=us (http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:AZOSYvCNKHMJ:www.legalaffairs.org/issues/July-August-2004/feature_labi_julaug04.msp+want+to+make+your+kid+disappear&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us)
Who is a paid representitive of BAIN CAPITAL owner of CRC HEALTH owner of ASPEN EDUCATION funder of and founded by presisential hopeful, Mitt Romney
Post by: TheWho on December 25, 2007, 10:55:26 PM
http://http://www.helpyourteens.com/safe_transport_services.html
http://http://www.devon.gov.uk/school_escorts.htm
http://http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/sccwebsite/sccwspages.nsf/LookupWebPagesByTITLE_RTF/Escorts+on+school+transport?opendocument
Post by: TheWho on December 26, 2007, 10:41:47 AM
Choose an agency which specialize in transporting teens like one of the ones mentioned above, which view themselves as an escort service.
Post by: Anonymous on December 26, 2007, 12:29:32 PM
Quote from: "TBS Yuppie Scum"
Did I ever mention the time I fucked The Who’s whore, CCM Girl? I was a newcomer at a TBS, when one day, after school, I heard an older female voice call from behind me. I turned around, surprised to see CCM Girl.
"I'm giving you a ride today", she said, flashing that sexy smile of hers and indicating a large Cadillac with tinted windows.
"Thanks CCM Girl. I love you, CCM Girl", I replied, holding her door open for her. I went around to the other side of the car and was shocked to see a bottle of Cutty Sark and a couple of shot glasses in plain sight, right next to a tray of sensimilla and a mirror with two fat, white rails laid out on it.
"Don't be nervous" she said, "we'll just have a little party here. It'll be our little secret." She uncapped the Cutty and took a long pull, then passed me the bottle. I tilted my head back for a long draw of scotch, and heard her snorting up a line as I felt her hand groping at my cock and balls. I took another deep draw from the bottle as fear, revulsion ,and a sick sense of desire filled me.
"It's OK" she said, "here--do a line"
I took the mirror she handed me, and the rolled up $100 bill, and bent down to see my wild-eyed reflection in the mirror as she unzipped my pants.
"I've never done coke before" I said, kind of nervously.
"Oh, that's not cocaine, silly boy, that's PCP. It's very decadent. The Who and I like to do it when we watch bestiality movies we made on our honeymoon".
"Oh", I said, feeling my dick reluctantly getting hard to her touch and a buzzing noise in my head.
"Why don't you roll us a joint?" she said, right before she bent down and swollowed my engorged prick and began skillfully fellating me.
"Sure" I said, feeling hazy yet strangely aroused as she continued inhaling my shaft.
Suddenly she stopped sucking, sat up, and told me to light up the joint I had barely been able to roll. As I lit it up and took a deep toke into my lungs, she pulled down the black polyester slacks she was wearing to reveal that she had no panties on. She took the joint from me, hit it a couple of times, thenthrew herself over the seat, with her ass in the air.
"FUCK ME ! FUCK ME IN THE ASS LIKE THE SLUT I AM!" she screamed, and I plunged my drug-crazed dick into her bung hole, feeling her convulse with joy as I buried my dick in her ass.
She passed the joint back to me and I hit it again and again as I continued probing her anus with my johnson. Sweat poured down my face and I continued to pump her butt as I wiped the perspiration of my forehead. She began screaming again, making wild animal noises, and just as I was about to cum, she yelled out "Look over your shoulder RIGHT NOW!"
Startled, I did as she said, and what I saw when I did was a sight I will never foget. Over my shoulder I saw The Who, dressed in a torn Girl Scout uniform, furiously masturbating himself as he watched us. Then he pulled out a statistic chart printed from “The Matrixâ€
Post by: ZenAgent on December 26, 2007, 02:04:04 PM
http://www.frazierhealthcare.com/pdf/aspen_092906.pdf (http://www.frazierhealthcare.com/pdf/aspen_092906.pdf)
Quote
For Immediate Release: September 29, 2006
Contact: Robert Weiner, Rebecca Vander Linde, or Richard Bangs 301-283-0821/202-329-1700
CRC HEALTH GROUP TO ACQUIRE ASPEN EDUCATION, LEADING PROVIDER OF TREATMENT TO STRUGGLING ADOLESCENTS AND YOUNG ADULTS
Cupertino, CA -- September 29, 2006 -- Dr. Barry Karlin, Chairman & CEO of CRC Health Group, the nation’s largest chemical dependency and related behavioral health organization, today announced the signing of a definitive merger agreement to acquire Aspen Education Group, the foremost provider of educational assistance to struggling young people and their families. Terms of the agreement, which is expected to close in mid-November, were not disclosed.
“The merger of these two like-minded companies will create a synergy of treatment and educational options that is unprecedented,â€
Post by: Botched Programming on December 26, 2007, 05:53:14 PM
(http://http://people.carleton.edu/~pcamill/slides/europe%2030%20mid/IMG_1907.JPG)
(http://http://www.teachingtheholocaust.org/images/Dachau.jpg)
(http://http://www.sozialistische-gedenkstaetten.de/by/Dachau/Dachau5.jpg)
(http://http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Auschwitz/Auschwitz04.jpg)
(http://http://www.odyssei.com/gallery/7774_auschwitz_birkenau1entrance.jpg)
This is actually Dachau and Auschwitz which are 2 infamous Nazi Death Camps which put to death more Jews than could ever be imagined.
So here's to visiting and going on outside impressions which TheWho suggest parents do. Get a good look at the inner working of these schools and you will see something you should really be fearful about.
When you visit, see if the childrens faces do no not resemble those of the Jews standing in line awaiting the gas chambers, you will see that they are as they have already died inside from being sent to a facility.
(http://http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1670000/images/_1673471_auschwitzap300.jpg)
Post by: TheWho on December 26, 2007, 06:03:52 PM
Quote
So here's to visiting and going on outside impressions which TheWho suggest parents do. Get a good look at the inner working of these schools and you will see something you should really be fearful about.
When you visit, see if the childrens faces do no not resemble those of the Jews standing in line awaiting the gas chambers, you will see that they are as they have already died inside from being sent to a facility.
I have always advocated visiting the schools. I personally visited the school my daughter attended and had lunch with he kids, spoke to a few of them at random and sat in on one of their informal groups at the end of the day.
Like Botched mentioned, take a good look at the kids and if they do not look happy or you get the sense that the kids are not benefitting then this would not be a good place to send your child.
Look at it like it was any other place you would be entrusting your child to i.e daycare, private school
Never judge a book by its cover or a school by its website.
...
Post by: TheWho on December 26, 2007, 06:27:53 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Crisis and Issues Management
Through ongoing audience and industry tracking, Stanton Crenshaw offers combined issues monitoring and crisis management programs designed to anticipate challenges to our clients' reputation and maintain a foundation for preemptive communications. We also identify emerging issues that may affect realization of our clients' business objectives.
Damage control for the big boys.
This is not "damage control" in the old sense of the word or definition, but actually a Proactive approach to anticipating problems before they occur. For example many schools now talk to the parents or perform surveys to get a sense on what parts of the program were effective and which parts need to be improved, i.e. lack of church services, not enough family visits, too much isolation from outside world, need more activities, improve academics etc.
Most people or corporations are using the "Damage control" or Reactive approach which is slowly becoming obsolete... instead of reacting to problems, after they occur, why not anticipate them and stop them from happening.. Brilliant!! This has been very effective in most industries that have embraced it to date.
...
Post by: Botched Programming on December 26, 2007, 06:36:44 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""Crisis and Issues Management
Through ongoing audience and industry tracking, Stanton Crenshaw offers combined issues monitoring and crisis management programs designed to anticipate challenges to our clients' reputation and maintain a foundation for preemptive communications. We also identify emerging issues that may affect realization of our clients' business objectives.
Damage control for the big boys.
This is not "damage control" in the old sense of the word or definition, but actually a Proactive approach to anticipating problems before they occur. For example many schools now talk to the parents or perform surveys to get a sense on what parts of the program were effective and which parts need to be improved, i.e. lack of church services, not enough family visits, too much isolation from outside world, need more activities, improve academics etc.
Most people or corporations are using the "Damage control" or Reactive approach which is slowly becoming obsolete... instead of reacting to problems, after they occur, why not anticipate them and stop them from happening.. Brilliant!! This has been very effective in most industries that have embraced it to date.
...
Spoken like a true Ed-Con
Post by: TheWho on December 26, 2007, 08:40:49 PM
Quote from: ""Botched Programming""
Spoken like a true Ed-Con
Thanks "Botched", but I dont think I would be very good at selling cars or anything else. I tend to tell the "good" along with the "bad" and my commissions would suffer and I would go broke rather quickly!! Ha,Ha,Ha
...
Post by: Anonymous on December 27, 2007, 07:44:04 AM
Don't give this dope credit where credit ISN'T due, folks.
Post by: ZenAgent on December 27, 2007, 09:14:44 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""Crisis and Issues Management
Through ongoing audience and industry tracking, Stanton Crenshaw offers combined issues monitoring and crisis management programs designed to anticipate challenges to our clients' reputation and maintain a foundation for preemptive communications. We also identify emerging issues that may affect realization of our clients' business objectives.
Damage control for the big boys.
This is not "damage control" in the old sense of the word or definition, but actually a Proactive approach to anticipating problems before they occur. For example many schools now talk to the parents or perform surveys to get a sense on what parts of the program were effective and which parts need to be improved, i.e. lack of church services, not enough family visits, too much isolation from outside world, need more activities, improve academics etc.
Most people or corporations are using the "Damage control" or Reactive approach which is slowly becoming obsolete... instead of reacting to problems, after they occur, why not anticipate them and stop them from happening.. Brilliant!! This has been very effective in most industries that have embraced it to date.
...
That's glossing it over a bit. You call it "proactive", but Stanton Crenshaw is offering something insidious, like Reputation Defender.
It's not "proactive", it's preemptive. "Ongoing audience and industry tracking", "monitoring" - sounds a lot like what you do, Mr. Why. What better place to "monitor" than Fornits to "identify emerging issues that may affect realization of our clients' business objectives"?
Do you work for Stanton Crenshaw Communications or not, Mr. Why?
Post by: Anonymous on December 27, 2007, 01:48:35 PM
He is a vile, evil man (a term I use loosely) and I am truly appalled that I have to breathe the same air as he does. When he finally kicks it from whatever ailment finally does him in, it will be a great day.
I find it truly one of life's many injustices that that man is walking around free after having performed and overseen so criminal abuses against children.
His sick, power-crazed needs for control are indicative of some sort of weirdness that went on in young Who's life---perhaps he was assfucked by the other kids at school, or maybe by a teacher, parent or other authority figure such as a minister or priest. This in no way excuses Who's criminal antics, but it would help to explain them.
What kind of sadistic monster takes pride in abusing children? Wow, you're a real man, Who. You sure showed us who was boss. How you live with yourself is beyond me-- it is actually evidence that you have no heart, soul, or conscience. If you did you would kill yourself for all the heinous crimes you have committed, crimes which you can in no way "make amends" for. You disgusting heap of slime, shit and putrid, CCM Girl-fucking sleaze, I hope you die of a painful, slow, torturous disease that keeps you around long enough so that each of us can look you in your jaundiced eyes and tell you and your vile hag of a shit-filled whore, CCM Girl, exactly how delighted we are at your suffering. You said you wanted me to "share feelings", AND I WILL GLADLY DO SO.....FUCK OFF and DIE you evil shithead. I, and many others fucking HATE you!
Post by: TheWho on December 27, 2007, 02:34:42 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Who truly disgusts me, and is one person that I would love to read about in the obituary section of the paper.
He is a vile, evil man (a term I use loosely) and I am truly appalled that I have to breathe the same air as he does. When he finally kicks it from whatever ailment finally does him in, it will be a great day.
I find it truly one of life's many injustices that that man is walking around free after having performed and overseen so criminal abuses against children.
His sick, power-crazed needs for control are indicative of some sort of weirdness that went on in young Who's life---perhaps he was assfucked by the other kids at school, or maybe by a teacher, parent or other authority figure such as a minister or priest. This in no way excuses Who's criminal antics, but it would help to explain them.
What kind of sadistic monster takes pride in abusing children? Wow, you're a real man, Who. You sure showed us who was boss. How you live with yourself is beyond me-- it is actually evidence that you have no heart, soul, or conscience. If you did you would kill yourself for all the heinous crimes you have committed, crimes which you can in no way "make amends" for. You disgusting heap of slime, shit and putrid, CCM Girl-fucking sleaze, I hope you die of a painful, slow, torturous disease that keeps you around long enough so that each of us can look you in your jaundiced eyes and tell you and your vile hag of a shit-filled whore, CCM Girl, exactly how delighted we are at your suffering. You said you wanted me to "share feelings", AND I WILL GLADLY DO SO.....FUCK OFF and DIE you evil shithead. I, and many others fucking HATE you!
You seem to be having a difficult day, but you are still able to articulate your feelings well which is a reflection on your past primary education and appears to be solid from this distance. When I get worked up as you apparently are now, I open my window and shout towards my less favorable neighbor. So here is what I have to say to you:
You are a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.
Thou bawdy half-faced codpiece
Thou loggerheaded lily-livered maggot-pie!
Thou misbegotten base-court lout
Thy bones are marrowless.
Thou bawdy whoreson scullian
...
Post by: ZenAgent on December 27, 2007, 02:55:39 PM
Post by: TheWho on December 27, 2007, 03:03:40 PM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Do you work for Stanton Crenshaw Communications or not, who?
No, I don’t work for anyone except myself. I have been a bit of an insubordinate my whole life and since graduating college and after many jobs I realized (or was told) I was basically unemployable.
...
Post by: Anonymous on December 27, 2007, 06:23:53 PM
Who called Randi Taylor aka “CCM Girlâ€
Post by: Anonymous on December 28, 2007, 07:44:49 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 28, 2007, 11:34:27 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Who called Randi Taylor aka “CCM Girlâ€
Post by: psy on December 28, 2007, 12:47:33 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""Do you work for Stanton Crenshaw Communications or not, who?
No, I don’t work for anyone except myself. I have been a bit of an insubordinate my whole life and since graduating college and after many jobs I realized (or was told) I was basically unemployable.
...
So it's not just us who can't stand you... Somehow I'm not surprised.
Post by: TheWho on December 28, 2007, 01:18:07 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""ZenAgent""Do you work for Stanton Crenshaw Communications or not, who?
No, I don’t work for anyone except myself. I have been a bit of an insubordinate my whole life and since graduating college and after many jobs I realized (or was told) I was basically unemployable.
...
So it's not just us who can't stand you... Somehow I'm not surprised.
That wasnt very nice.
Post by: TheWho on December 30, 2007, 07:40:59 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""Do you work for Stanton Crenshaw Communications or not, who?
No, I don’t work for anyone except myself. I have been a bit of an insubordinate my whole life and since graduating college and after many jobs I realized (or was told) I was basically unemployable.
...
Except Bain!!
Post by: Troll Control on January 02, 2008, 11:59:54 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "who" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: TheWho on January 02, 2008, 05:31:46 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "Bruce" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Robertbruce"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2008, 06:00:13 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "who" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: TheWho on January 02, 2008, 06:29:33 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "Bruce" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2008, 06:40:49 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Now RobertBruce changed the quote (see one before this one and the one before it) to try to blame his nasty behavior on...you guesssed it!!! ...A parent who helped his daughter get thru a roughtime in her life ("TheWho")
When will RobertBruce stop re-victimizing abused children and parents? It's not right
Quit fucking trolling this forum, asswho.
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2008, 06:48:32 PM
Did the who first come on when HLA was being attacked?
Him being connected to that private prison would explain his obsession with Robert, and his "noble crusade" to speak on behalf of all the programs that are unfairy being penalized, here on fornits
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2008, 07:07:07 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2008, 07:09:20 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 02, 2008, 07:15:55 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Who hates HLA, because Bucci Boy won't sell to Aspen, which has been trying to buy it for some time.
RobertBruce lost his login and is posting as an anon, trolling for quite awhile now trying to get thewho to respond.
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2008, 07:29:40 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
RobertBruce lost his login and is posting as an anon, trolling for quite awhile now trying to get thewho to respond.
RB lost his login and be postin' as an anon, trollin' fo' quite awhile now tryin' t'get dewho t'respond? Are ya' kiddin' me??
Post by: Troll Control on January 03, 2008, 08:43:47 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
so why does he hate robert bruce then?
TheWho hates all children, especially ones that were abused and speak out about their abusers, like RobertBruce did. TheWho went as far as to contact HLA staff menbers (Johnny Ringo and HLA Truth), illegally obtain RB's personal info (including his name and length of stay at HLA), and then "expose" him on the internet as a "disgruntled liar" kid.
This is what TheWho does, people - He insures children that were abused and speak out about it will be punished.
Post by: TheWho on January 03, 2008, 09:17:23 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""so why does he hate robert bruce then?
TheWho hates all children, especially ones that were abused and speak out about their abusers, like RobertBruce did. TheWho went as far as to contact HLA staff menbers (Johnny Ringo and HLA Truth), illegally obtain RB's personal info (including his name and length of stay at HLA), and then "expose" him on the internet as a "disgruntled liar" kid.
This is what TheWho does, people - He insures children that were abused and speak out about it will be punished.
He killed his entire family and it has been established that he was part of 911.
Lets just keep trying to discredit him and maybe he will go away
Post by: Troll Control on January 03, 2008, 09:54:23 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""so why does he hate robert bruce then?
TheWho hates all children, especially ones that were abused and speak out about their abusers, like RobertBruce did. TheWho went as far as to contact HLA staff menbers (Johnny Ringo and HLA Truth), illegally obtain RB's personal info (including his name and length of stay at HLA), and then "expose" him on the internet as a "disgruntled liar" kid.
This is what TheWho does, people - He insures children that were abused and speak out about it will be punished.
This behavior from someone who wants to "help the children"? This is reprehensible from anyone, but from an alleged adult? This is disgusting and sick to say the least!
Post by: Anonymous on January 03, 2008, 10:03:27 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
This behavior from someone who wants to "help the children"? This is reprehensible from anyone, but from an alleged adult? This is disgusting and sick to say the least!
Oh, get over it -- TheWho isn't so bad as all that. Chances are you're just a manipulative liar trying to smear his name. Get a life.
Post by: TheWho on January 03, 2008, 10:06:17 AM
Government Center ATM September 6, 2001
(http://http://www.com-tec-security.com/images/app_atm.jpg)
If these photos dont get hom banned again, I have more. I will dig them up
Post by: Anonymous on January 03, 2008, 11:01:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on January 03, 2008, 11:34:51 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Anyone who reads here at any length...
Is a loser, plain and simple.
Post by: Troll Control on January 03, 2008, 12:10:23 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "who" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: TheWho on January 03, 2008, 02:39:55 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "Bruce" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: Anonymous on January 03, 2008, 02:51:51 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Anyone who reads here at any length...
Is a loser, plain and simple.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 03, 2008, 04:49:05 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "Bruce" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: TheWho on January 03, 2008, 04:58:06 PM
Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "Bruce" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 03, 2008, 05:17:00 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "Bruce" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: Anonymous on January 03, 2008, 05:52:39 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "who" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: TheWho on January 03, 2008, 05:58:38 PM
Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "Bruce" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: Anonymous on January 03, 2008, 06:36:33 PM
I don't think that person even comes here anymore. But he lives in Who's psyche. Why does who feel so passionately about rob bruce?
Who works for BAIN CAPITAL owner of Aspen education
Post by: Anonymous on January 03, 2008, 06:41:50 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 03, 2008, 09:11:51 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I love the entire theatre, replete with different characters, the who has created about this "robert bruce" person.
I don't think that person even comes here anymore. But he lives in Who's psyche. Why does who feel so passionately about rob bruce?
Who works for BAIN CAPITAL owner of Aspen education
Who works for BAIN CAPITAL owner of Aspen education
If we keep printing this he will go away. If I could get those other photos of him taking out large sums of cash just prior to 911 I will post them. If there is a federal inditment showing complicty with 911 then I think he will be banned from posting here.
I will post the photos as I get them, he was caught all over Boston area (removing money) which is where the planes took off from if you remember.
Post by: Anonymous on January 03, 2008, 09:54:07 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""I love the entire theatre, replete with different characters, the who has created about this "robert bruce" person.
I don't think that person even comes here anymore. But he lives in Who's psyche. Why does who feel so passionately about rob bruce?
Who works for BAIN CAPITAL owner of Aspen education
Who works for BAIN CAPITAL owner of Aspen education
If we keep printing this he will go away. If I could get those other photos of him taking out large sums of cash just prior to 911 I will post them. If there is a federal inditment showing complicty with 911 then I think he will be banned from posting here.
I will post the photos as I get them, he was caught all over Boston area (removing money) which is where the planes took off from if you remember.
wow, who that's some clever satire :roll:
Have fun in your wasted murderous cult life
Post by: TheWho on January 04, 2008, 09:09:51 AM
...
Post by: Che Gookin on January 04, 2008, 09:25:54 AM
I hear aspirin might help with those head pains and thin your blood.
Post by: Anonymous on January 04, 2008, 10:01:05 AM
Post by: Anonymous on January 04, 2008, 10:26:38 AM
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 04, 2008, 06:15:40 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "Bruce" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: Che Gookin on January 04, 2008, 11:09:16 PM
Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "Bruce" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: TheWho on January 05, 2008, 01:25:29 AM
Quote from: "Mao Gookin"
Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "Bruce" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: Che Gookin on January 05, 2008, 01:32:36 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Mao Gookin"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "Bruce" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: TheWho on January 05, 2008, 01:39:56 AM
Quote from: "Mao Gookin"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Mao Gookin"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "Bruce" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: Che Gookin on January 05, 2008, 01:46:31 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Mao Gookin"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Mao Gookin"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "Bruce" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: psy on January 05, 2008, 08:04:03 AM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Mao Gookin"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Mao Gookin"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "Bruce" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: TheWho on January 05, 2008, 09:19:21 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Che Gookin"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Mao Gookin"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Mao Gookin"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "Bruce" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: TheWho on January 05, 2008, 09:46:26 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "psy"Quote from: "Che Gookin"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Mao Gookin"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Mao Gookin"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "Bruce" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: Che Gookin on January 06, 2008, 04:08:22 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "psy"Quote from: "Che Gookin"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Mao Gookin"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Mao Gookin"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Nihilanthic"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"yes, a psycho looser program parent who spends all day making fun of child abuse victims, and explaining that just because a kid dies in a program, that don't mean that the program is responsible.
BAIN CAPITAL owns crc health which owns ASPEN EDUCATION. My Guess is that "Bruce" - alan newman from Newton Mass., Aspen's headquaters- works for themQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"I was abducted from my home, systematically sexually abused, worked as a slave, subjected to 6 hour a day peer denouncement sessions-public degradation-the sort practiced by the Chinese in thought reform prisons, not allowed to move unless another child gave me permission and then only with another 2 children holding me. These adolescents also had the authority to beat me whenever they felt i broke a rule, and they beat other children within inches of their lives. Other times you could be put in isolation, which had no time limit and went on as far as i know up to 6 months. You could also have your right to speak removed, which also had no time limit. Public forced nudity was another punishment. Adolescents forcibly bathed other adolescents. Kids became sick and weren’t allowed medical treatment. If you wanted not to be tortured, you had to torture other kids. Adolescents decided if you were “saneâ€
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2008, 09:21:09 AM
if u can trace an ip, i can't beleive that curiousity hasn't driven you to do it...
Post by: Che Gookin on January 10, 2008, 09:25:41 AM
1 more time..
Even if we did trace his IP it would only tell us of his geopraphical location..
Unless we had some super genius hacker finding out his identity would require a subpeona from a judge delivered to the who's ISP.
So posting his IP would be a fairly pointless act.
Post by: Botched Programming on January 10, 2008, 09:29:36 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
do you admins know who he is?
'Watch him folks, 'cause he's a thoroughly dangerous man
Well, you may not know it, but this man's a spy
He's an undercover agent for the FBI
And he's been sent down here to infiltrate the Ku Klux Klan'
'He's a friend of them long-haired, hippie type, pinko fags
I betcha he's even got a Commie flag
Tacked up on the wall, inside of his garage
He's a snake in the grass, I tell ya guys
He may look dumb, but that's just a disguise
He's a mastermind in the ways of espionage'
Post by: TheWho on January 16, 2008, 09:40:22 AM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "Guest"do you admins know who he is?
'Watch him folks, 'cause he's a thoroughly dangerous man
Well, you may not know it, but this man's a spy
He's an undercover agent for the FBI
And he's been sent down here to infiltrate the Ku Klux Klan'
'He's a friend of them long-haired, hippie type, pinko fags
I betcha he's even got a Commie flag
Tacked up on the wall, inside of his garage
He's a snake in the grass, I tell ya guys
He may look dumb, but that's just a disguise
He's a mastermind in the ways of espionage'
Who is this “Botched Programming”
When will his terror end?
I am torn between running away
Or trying to be his friend.
His avatar is frightening
His demeanor is bazaar
He cuts you with his dialog
And ensures it leaves a scar
He claims to be a survivor
And is here under an assumed name
He attacks with furry and tenacity
Against programs like Straight and Elan
This man is a nightmare
And when he begins to bellow and shout
You may want to consider clicking on
The button the reads “Log out”
Now you must heed my words directly
you will come away from a debate tattered and scorned
And as you lay in bed humiliated
Remember that you were warned.
...
Post by: Froderik on January 16, 2008, 10:03:23 AM
Post by: Botched Programming on January 16, 2008, 11:34:45 AM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Who is this “Botched Programming”
When will his terror end?
I am torn between running away
Or trying to be his friend.
His avatar is frightening
His demeanor is bazaar
He cuts you with his dialog
And ensures it leaves a scar
He claims to be a survivor
And is here under an assumed name
He attacks with furry and tenacity
Against programs like Straight and Elan
This man is a nightmare
And when he begins to bellow and shout
You may want to consider clicking on
The button the reads “Log out”
Now you must heed my words directly
you will come away from a debate tattered and scorned
And as you lay in bed humiliated
Remember that you were warned.
...
Why thank you for the reassurance that I have gotten to you. I just wonder how many days it took you to write your lovely little poem. One day you may be able to tell pro-program people that you are a survivor of the "Resistance." Because that would be the only way you could relate to being a survivor in any way, shape, or form.
I love the fact that you freaked out when you tried to get into Fornits and saw all the locks, you were sure that the Admin had finally done you right. I'll bet you were absolutely miserable. Did your little blood pressure flush your face the color of a fire truck???
Oh... By the way I haven't gone anon in a while, that's your spineless tactic. Look at my profile.... I am not skeert.
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2008, 11:53:07 AM
Post by: TheWho on January 16, 2008, 12:10:11 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "TheWho"
Who is this “Botched Programming”
When will his terror end?
I am torn between running away
Or trying to be his friend.
His avatar is frightening
His demeanor is bazaar
He cuts you with his dialog
And ensures it leaves a scar
He claims to be a survivor
And is here under an assumed name
He attacks with furry and tenacity
Against programs like Straight and Elan
This man is a nightmare
And when he begins to bellow and shout
You may want to consider clicking on
The button the reads “Log out”
Now you must heed my words directly
you will come away from a debate tattered and scorned
And as you lay in bed humiliated
Remember that you were warned.
...
Why thank you for the reassurance that I have gotten to you. I just wonder how many days it took you to write your lovely little poem. One day you may be able to tell pro-program people that you are a survivor of the "Resistance." Because that would be the only way you could relate to being a survivor in any way, shape, or form.
I love the fact that you freaked out when you tried to get into Fornits and saw all the locks, you were sure that the Admin had finally done you right. I'll bet you were absolutely miserable. Did your little blood pressure flush your face the color of a fire truck???
Oh... By the way I haven't gone anon in a while, that's your spineless tactic. Look at my profile.... I am not skeert.
Sorry I was so hard on you, Botched, I thought you had more back bone errr....thicker skin and could take it better than that. In hindsight I should have made it an ode.
...
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2008, 12:12:32 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Sorry I was so hard on you, Botched, I thought you had more back bone errr....thicker skin and could take it better than that. In hindsight I should have made it an ode.Morons.
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 16, 2008, 01:28:35 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Sorry I was so hard on you, Botched, I thought you had more back bone errr....thicker skin and could take it better than that. In hindsight I should have made it an ode.
...
Don't flatter yourself dumbass. I don't think Botched is the least bit bothered by you aside from the annoyance of swatting at those pesky gnats that buzz around during the summer months.
Post by: TheWho on January 16, 2008, 02:35:26 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "TheWho"
Sorry I was so hard on you, Botched, I thought you had more back bone errr....thicker skin and could take it better than that. In hindsight I should have made it an ode.
...
Don't flatter yourself dumbass. I don't think Botched is the least bit bothered by you aside from the annoyance of swatting at those pesky gnats that buzz around during the summer months.
dumbass..... a nice step up from your usual gutter mouth. Now that they offer “spell check” here you think you can show off a little.
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 16, 2008, 02:42:02 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
dumbass..... a nice step up from your usual gutter mouth. Now that they offer “spell check” here you think you can show off a little.
Hey Who.......
Kiss my ass!!!!
Post by: stina on January 16, 2008, 04:06:03 PM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Unless we had some super genius hacker finding out his identity would require a subpeona from a judge delivered to the who's ISP.
I just so happen to know a super genius hacker. Who's been to a similar program in MO. Shall we begin?
Post by: stina on January 16, 2008, 04:08:19 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Who is this “Botched Programming”
When will his terror end?
I am torn between running away
Or trying to be his friend.
His avatar is frightening
His demeanor is bazaar
He cuts you with his dialog
And ensures it leaves a scar
He claims to be a survivor
And is here under an assumed name
He attacks with furry and tenacity
Against programs like Straight and Elan
This man is a nightmare
And when he begins to bellow and shout
You may want to consider clicking on
The button the reads “Log out”
Now you must heed my words directly
you will come away from a debate tattered and scorned
And as you lay in bed humiliated
Remember that you were warned.
Go bobba yourself.
Post by: Botched Programming on January 16, 2008, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
dumbass..... a nice step up from your usual gutter mouth. Now that they offer “spell check” here you think you can show off a little.
...
Go gargle with a hand full of bobba then stick it up your bobba, you stupid bobba!!!!!
Post by: TheWho on January 16, 2008, 05:16:11 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "TheWho"
dumbass..... a nice step up from your usual gutter mouth. Now that they offer “spell check” here you think you can show off a little.
...
Go gargle with a hand full of bobba then stick it up your bobba, you stupid bobba!!!!!
.......and let that be a bobba lesson to you!!! Ha,Ha,Ha
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 16, 2008, 07:09:07 PM
Wow, this is absolutely amusing. And, original! He's not charging at a troll matador like a butthurt pussy bull for a change.
Too bad he can't actually defend his employers with rational... well, anything.
Post by: TheWho on January 16, 2008, 07:19:06 PM
Quote from: "Nihilanthic"
The who trying to troll with poetry... HAHAHAHA.
Wow, this is absolutely amusing. And, original! He's not charging at a troll matador like a butthurt pussy bull for a change.
Too bad he can't actually defend his employers with rational... well, anything.
Thanks Niles, Coming from someone with zero experience/knowledge in the industry, I'll take that as a compliment.
...
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2008, 07:30:33 PM
Post by: Botched Programming on January 17, 2008, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Thanks Niles, Coming from someone with zero experience/knowledge in the industry, I'll take that as a compliment.
...
Are you actually telling us thatYOU have experience/knowledge in the Industry ??????
You've got to stop.... I'm laughing so hard my sides are hurting!!!!!!!
Post by: Anonymous on January 17, 2008, 02:40:10 PM
Quote from: "RIZZO"
Quit fingerin' each other in the ass why doncha.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2008, 03:37:50 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "TheWho"
Thanks Niles, Coming from someone with zero experience/knowledge in the industry, I'll take that as a compliment.
...
Are you actually telling us thatYOU have experience/knowledge in the Industry ??????
You've got to stop.... I'm laughing so hard my sides are hurting!!!!!!!
Well I do yes...But if you reread the post you will see that I was indicating that niles has never attended a program nor had a family member attend one. His knowledge is strictly limited to what he has learned here on fornits which is heavily biased and not well balanced information. As for myself (since you seem interested)..... I have had a family member attend 2 programs and have been involved with them myself as well as what I have learned here on fornits.... how about yourself?
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 17, 2008, 03:49:49 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
I have had a family member attend 2 programs
You shipped your daughter off for strangers to raise when you failed. You have no idea what it's like behind closed doors.
Quote
and have been involved with them myself
How so? Be specific.
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2008, 03:53:00 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "TheWho"I have had a family member attend 2 programs
You shipped your daughter off for strangers to raise when you failed. You have no idea what it's like behind closed doors.Quoteand have been involved with them myself
How so? Be specific.
No, I think you are talking about yourself again Anne. I believe you were the one who's kids aborted your home schooling attempt so you shipped them off to strangers to raise.
...
Post by: psy on January 17, 2008, 04:12:00 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"Quote from: "TheWho"I have had a family member attend 2 programs
You shipped your daughter off for strangers to raise when you failed. You have no idea what it's like behind closed doors.Quoteand have been involved with them myself
How so? Be specific.
No, I think you are talking about yourself again Anne. I believe you were the one who's kids aborted your home schooling attempt so you shipped them off to strangers to raise.
...
You say things like that and expect her not to swear at you? :ftard:
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2008, 04:58:18 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Anne Bonney"Quote from: "TheWho"I have had a family member attend 2 programs
You shipped your daughter off for strangers to raise when you failed. You have no idea what it's like behind closed doors.Quoteand have been involved with them myself
How so? Be specific.
No, I think you are talking about yourself again Anne. I believe you were the one who's kids aborted your home schooling attempt so you shipped them off to strangers to raise.
...
You say things like that and expect her not to swear at you? :ftard:
She swears at people (and myself) regardless of who I am talking to... being nice did not change things in the past. I am treating her the way she treats me (minus the swearing).
...
Post by: Botched Programming on January 17, 2008, 05:43:04 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Well I do yes...But if you reread the post you will see that I was indicating that niles has never attended a program nor had a family member attend one. His knowledge is strictly limited to what he has learned here on fornits which is heavily biased and not well balanced information. As for myself (since you seem interested)..... I have had a family member attend 2 programs and have been involved with them myself as well as what I have learned here on fornits.... how about yourself?
...
I personally have experience being inside the program, not just shipping someone off to them and taking a Sunday drive out for a fairy tale style visit. I lived the reality of a program where you sat on your couch watching tv stuffing your face with food and beer.
And like you said you had a family member (your daughter not you) who was in a program, so your opinions and daydream dementia mean nothing as you don't have first hand experience being in a program.
Post by: TheWho on January 17, 2008, 09:01:52 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
I personally have experience being inside the program,
Well that’s a start…and you also have some experience with what you have read here on fornits which counts for some (don’t sell yourself too short).
Quote
I lived the reality of a program where you sat on your couch watching tv stuffing your face with food and beer.Yes but you see I had to support a family. You had all your meals cooked for you, paid for, someone to clean up after you. You didn’t have to pay for electricity or heating bills, meals. You didn’t have to worry about (or be responsible for) anyone else except yourself (and may still not have to today).
So to recap, I have knowledge of the inside of the program and from the outside of the program for a TBS and for Wilderness which allows me to see the larger picture. I also have the knowledge of reading peoples accounts here on fornits for a few years.
So I do see that you have plenty to contribute here, Botched, but you have limited knowledge (from only one perspective).
...
Post by: psy on January 17, 2008, 09:34:58 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Please do not feed him! He wants a response. He needs it to survive...Quote from: "Botched Programming"
I personally have experience being inside the program,
Well that’s a start…and you also have some experience with what you have read here on fornits which counts for some (don’t sell yourself too short).QuoteI lived the reality of a program where you sat on your couch watching tv stuffing your face with food and beer.Yes but you see I had to support a family. You had all your meals cooked for you, paid for, someone to clean up after you. You didn’t have to pay for electricity or heating bills, meals. You didn’t have to worry about (or be responsible for) anyone else except yourself (and may still not have to today).
So to recap, I have knowledge of the inside of the program and from the outside of the program for a TBS and for Wilderness which allows me to see the larger picture. I also have the knowledge of reading peoples accounts here on fornits for a few years.
So I do see that you have plenty to contribute here, Botched, but you have limited knowledge (from only one perspective).
...
Post by: Froderik on January 17, 2008, 09:45:21 PM
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2008, 07:24:31 PM
http://fornits.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=nhsq296rd0hpfsv0eij1or62n1&topic=24386.0 (http://http://fornits.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=nhsq296rd0hpfsv0eij1or62n1&topic=24386.0)
...
Post by: psy on January 18, 2008, 07:38:08 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
For James T. , I understand your concerns and you can learn plenty here if you are patient and can cut thru the BS and local trolls (negative posts)… try to follow “Sunshinedaydream” as an example. I would contact the school first… I will leave a link for you to read below (just click on it) and then email me (the second one was my home email) if you have further questions… Good luck.For James T: PLEASE DO NOT TRUST THIS POSTER!
http://fornits.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=nhsq296rd0hpfsv0eij1or62n1&topic=24386.0 (http://http://fornits.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=nhsq296rd0hpfsv0eij1or62n1&topic=24386.0)
...
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2008, 07:47:43 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "TheWho"For James T. , I understand your concerns and you can learn plenty here if you are patient and can cut thru the BS and local trolls (negative posts)… try to follow “Sunshinedaydream” as an example. I would contact the school first… I will leave a link for you to read below (just click on it) and then email me (the second one was my home email) if you have further questions… Good luck.For James T: PLEASE DO NOT TRUST THIS POSTER!
http://fornits.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=nhsq296rd0hpfsv0eij1or62n1&topic=24386.0 (http://http://fornits.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=nhsq296rd0hpfsv0eij1or62n1&topic=24386.0)
...
You will get plenty of negative posts like these here as I mentioned in my email... as you read the link, I gave you, look at the desperation of the anti program people trying to discredit her story every step of the way (almost toe-to-toe). When you are done, email me, and I will show you how many here take offense if you even question just "one" of their stories..... this is not a balanced forum by any means and is designed to turn you against the entire industry.
...
Post by: psy on January 18, 2008, 09:10:31 PM
http://fornits.com/smf/http://www.forni ... 57#p304757 (http://fornits.com/smf/http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=304757#p304757)
Look. If you're willing to take the advice of "TheWho" who could be anybody, for all you know, please... for the sake of your child, listen to my side of the story.
My name is Michael Crawford
My email is [email protected]
My cell phone is 571 277 5341
He will not be that open with you. I swear to you under penalty of perjury that in my very very strong opinion he is NOT who he says he is and you would be entrusting your child in the hands of somebody who truly does not care about his or her welfare. PLEASE... do not make the same mistake my parents did.
Post by: psy on January 18, 2008, 09:15:02 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
this is not a balanced forum by any means and is designed to turn you against the entire industry.
On the contrary. This is the ONLY balanced forum. This is the only forum where every point of view is allowed. If this forum is so one-sided, why is TheWho allowed to post here? You would be foolish to listen to the deceptions of this con man. He will tell you what you want to hear, tell you that the industry is safe. Please... Do your homework and I stand by my policy on confidentiality, despite what TheWho might say.
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2008, 09:44:44 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "TheWho"this is not a balanced forum by any means and is designed to turn you against the entire industry.
On the contrary. This is the ONLY balanced forum. This is the only forum where every point of view is allowed. If this forum is so one-sided, why is TheWho allowed to post here? You would be foolish to listen to the deceptions of this con man. He will tell you what you want to hear, tell you that the industry is safe. Please... Do your homework and I stand by my policy on confidentiality, despite what TheWho might say.
You are a little late, psy, he has moved on.....but for the rest of the readers... do your homework (as Psy mentioned) read here and you will see it is heavily biased against the industry which I always see as valuable. It is good to look at both extremes to get a feel for what people are saying (helps with your list of questions) and then call the school or schools and have your list of questions handy... then I always suggest to visit the school...talk to staff and the students... speak with previous parents who have been thru the program (or had kids go thru the program).
...
Post by: psy on January 18, 2008, 09:48:33 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
You left out the former students who have been there. God I hope there is a special place in hell for people like you.Quote from: "psy"Quote from: "TheWho"this is not a balanced forum by any means and is designed to turn you against the entire industry.
On the contrary. This is the ONLY balanced forum. This is the only forum where every point of view is allowed. If this forum is so one-sided, why is TheWho allowed to post here? You would be foolish to listen to the deceptions of this con man. He will tell you what you want to hear, tell you that the industry is safe. Please... Do your homework and I stand by my policy on confidentiality, despite what TheWho might say.
You are a little late, psy, he has moved on.....but for the rest of the readers... do your homework (as Psy mentioned) read here and you will see it is heavily biased against the industry which I always see as valuable. It is good to look at both extremes to get a feel for what people are saying (helps with your list of questions) and then call the school or schools and have your list of questions handy... then I always suggest to visit the school...talk to staff and the students... speak with previous parents who have been thru the program (or had kids go thru the program).
...
Post by: TheWho on January 18, 2008, 10:07:53 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "TheWho"You left out the former students who have been there. God I hope there is a special place in hell for people like you.Quote from: "psy"Quote from: "TheWho"this is not a balanced forum by any means and is designed to turn you against the entire industry.
On the contrary. This is the ONLY balanced forum. This is the only forum where every point of view is allowed. If this forum is so one-sided, why is TheWho allowed to post here? You would be foolish to listen to the deceptions of this con man. He will tell you what you want to hear, tell you that the industry is safe. Please... Do your homework and I stand by my policy on confidentiality, despite what TheWho might say.
You are a little late, psy, he has moved on.....but for the rest of the readers... do your homework (as Psy mentioned) read here and you will see it is heavily biased against the industry which I always see as valuable. It is good to look at both extremes to get a feel for what people are saying (helps with your list of questions) and then call the school or schools and have your list of questions handy... then I always suggest to visit the school...talk to staff and the students... speak with previous parents who have been thru the program (or had kids go thru the program).
...
Why are you so opposed to parents seeking information about the schools? Why does everyone insist that they have all the answers and they don’t need to look any further? These are kids we are all talking about... before any parent makes any decision about their future they should talk to as many people, professionals and check as many sources as possible (including fornits).. Speak to the parents....students... former students.... staff...tour the facility and speak to kids at random...don’t leave anyone out. But you can’t expect any parent to realistically come here and make a decision based on anonymous posters (myself included).
...
Post by: Anonymous on January 20, 2008, 09:01:46 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Read here to see how he argues:
http://fornits.com/smf/http://www.forni ... 57#p304757 (http://fornits.com/smf/http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=304757#p304757)
Look. If you're willing to take the advice of "TheWho" who could be anybody, for all you know, please... for the sake of your child, listen to my side of the story.
My name is Michael Crawford
My email is [email protected]
My cell phone is 571 277 5341
He will not be that open with you. I swear to you under penalty of perjury that in my very very strong opinion he is NOT who he says he is and you would be entrusting your child in the hands of somebody who truly does not care about his or her welfare. PLEASE... do not make the same mistake my parents did.
I called but there was no answer. I was looking forward to our gay phone sex session, what gives?
Post by: psy on January 21, 2008, 12:52:16 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "psy"Read here to see how he argues:
http://fornits.com/smf/http://www.forni ... 57#p304757 (http://fornits.com/smf/http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=304757#p304757)
Look. If you're willing to take the advice of "TheWho" who could be anybody, for all you know, please... for the sake of your child, listen to my side of the story.
My name is Michael Crawford
My email is [email protected]
My cell phone is 571 277 5341
He will not be that open with you. I swear to you under penalty of perjury that in my very very strong opinion he is NOT who he says he is and you would be entrusting your child in the hands of somebody who truly does not care about his or her welfare. PLEASE... do not make the same mistake my parents did.
I called but there was no answer. I was looking forward to our gay phone sex session, what gives?
Don't know what happened. My phones in my pocket.. and i'm feeling pretty horny too... Try calling again.
Post by: TheWho on January 21, 2008, 01:28:52 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "psy"Read here to see how he argues:
http://fornits.com/smf/http://www.forni ... 57#p304757 (http://fornits.com/smf/http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=304757#p304757)
Look. If you're willing to take the advice of "TheWho" who could be anybody, for all you know, please... for the sake of your child, listen to my side of the story.
My name is Michael Crawford
My email is [email protected]
My cell phone is 571 277 5341
He will not be that open with you. I swear to you under penalty of perjury that in my very very strong opinion he is NOT who he says he is and you would be entrusting your child in the hands of somebody who truly does not care about his or her welfare. PLEASE... do not make the same mistake my parents did.
I called but there was no answer. I was looking forward to our gay phone sex session, what gives?
Don't know what happened. My phones in my pocket.. and i'm feeling pretty horny too... Try calling again.
Real mature, I dont think I can use your advice.
Post by: psy on January 21, 2008, 01:49:50 PM
Quote from: "Fred Sanford"
or your sense of humor....Quote from: "psy"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "psy"Read here to see how he argues:
http://fornits.com/smf/http://www.forni ... 57#p304757 (http://fornits.com/smf/http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=304757#p304757)
Look. If you're willing to take the advice of "TheWho" who could be anybody, for all you know, please... for the sake of your child, listen to my side of the story.
My name is Michael Crawford
My email is [email protected]
My cell phone is 571 277 5341
He will not be that open with you. I swear to you under penalty of perjury that in my very very strong opinion he is NOT who he says he is and you would be entrusting your child in the hands of somebody who truly does not care about his or her welfare. PLEASE... do not make the same mistake my parents did.
I called but there was no answer. I was looking forward to our gay phone sex session, what gives?
Don't know what happened. My phones in my pocket.. and i'm feeling pretty horny too... Try calling again.
Real mature, I dont think I can use your advice.
Post by: Anonymous on January 21, 2008, 02:00:17 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22684589/?GT1=10755 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22684589/?GT1=10755)
Post by: Anonymous on March 04, 2008, 08:54:44 PM
Post by: psy on March 04, 2008, 09:00:37 PM
Quote from: "ding dong"
the witch is dead!the witch old witch....
but why oh why did you have to resurrect this thread...
Post by: Froderik on March 05, 2008, 12:12:07 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "ding dong"the witch is dead!the witch old witch....
That's "which old witch." Carry on. :)
Post by: Anonymous on March 05, 2008, 11:59:38 PM
Post by: Froderik on March 06, 2008, 10:25:00 AM
In any case, I'll live not knowing.
Post by: Troll Control on August 30, 2008, 08:57:39 AM
Quote from: "ljsd"
We'll never know if he was a hired gun, or just plain mental.
He's both. I think that's pretty clear.
Post by: Anonymous on August 30, 2008, 05:44:55 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "ljsd"We'll never know if he was a hired gun, or just plain mental.
He's both. I think that's pretty clear.
THIS.
Parents: It's been said a thousand times, but it must be said again.
The Who is the perfect, canonical example of the people asking you to trust them to send goons at 2 AM to take your children from you.
No. Seriously. Put this one in the truth-stranger-than-fiction pile. And then read enough of the insanity as you dare, and then give your fifteen-year-old almost-dropout pot addict a nice, big hug.
Post by: Anonymous on August 31, 2008, 10:50:27 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 01, 2008, 11:50:36 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
TheWho isnt all that bad. Atleast he isnt out on the fringe somewhere and he can see both sides and understands that some programs are abusive but not all. I have read posts here where people call all programs shitpits, even ones they never heard of before. These are the dangerous ones who have an agenda.
Any program that does not give kids due process, that uses the therapeutic community approach (positive peer pressure that amounts to nothing but bullying and humiliation), that has 'staff' with questionable credentials (mainly they use former inmates/patients) and that generally pushes quack 'diagnosis' for these kids IS a shitpit.
If you know of a "good program", please. By all means post it here and let's see.
Post by: Anonymous on September 01, 2008, 12:16:57 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
TheWho isnt all that bad. Atleast he isnt out on the fringe somewhere and he can see both sides and understands that some programs are abusive but not all. I have read posts here where people call all programs shitpits, even ones they never heard of before. These are the dangerous ones who have an agenda.
It's sad, isn't it? TheWho is so desperate for praise he gives it to himself anonymously.
Post by: Anonymous on September 01, 2008, 08:52:40 PM
Quote from: "shitpit"
Quote from: "Guest"TheWho isnt all that bad. Atleast he isnt out on the fringe somewhere and he can see both sides and understands that some programs are abusive but not all. I have read posts here where people call all programs shitpits, even ones they never heard of before. These are the dangerous ones who have an agenda.
Any program that does not give kids due process, that uses the therapeutic community approach (positive peer pressure that amounts to nothing but bullying and humiliation), that has 'staff' with questionable credentials (mainly they use former inmates/patients) and that generally pushes quack 'diagnosis' for these kids IS a shitpit.
If you know of a "good program", please. By all means post it here and let's see.
See, now there "is" someone else with an open mind!! I stand corrected.
Post by: Anonymous on September 02, 2008, 11:29:37 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "shitpit"Quote from: "Guest"TheWho isnt all that bad. Atleast he isnt out on the fringe somewhere and he can see both sides and understands that some programs are abusive but not all. I have read posts here where people call all programs shitpits, even ones they never heard of before. These are the dangerous ones who have an agenda.
Any program that does not give kids due process, that uses the therapeutic community approach (positive peer pressure that amounts to nothing but bullying and humiliation), that has 'staff' with questionable credentials (mainly they use former inmates/patients) and that generally pushes quack 'diagnosis' for these kids IS a shitpit.
If you know of a "good program", please. By all means post it here and let's see.
See, now there "is" someone else with an open mind!! I stand corrected.
So, about those 'good programs'? Find any yet?
Post by: Anonymous on September 02, 2008, 12:46:21 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 02, 2008, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Based on the GAO report and here on fornits there are a handful of abusive places so lets double that to be conservative. There are 300 - 500 TBS's and 2 to 3 times as many RTC's and bootcamps , wilderness etc. So a conservative estimate would be 2% of the facilities are abusive.
So...you wanna start naming off some tried and true, safe as milk programs? No one's asking for a complete list. Where are you getting those numbers for facilities? You've got a pretty wide gap in your estimate of the number of facilities: 900 - 2,000, yet you can nail down 2% as a conservative estimate?
Re-read the GAO report. Its noted they could not gauge the number of programs in operation, so don't take the "handful of abusive places" in the GAO report as all they could find. Greg Kutz's testimony makes it clear the GAO's findings were the tip of the iceberg. Also, how do you define an abusive program? One that's mentioned on Fornits or in the GAO report? Programs have been known to settle lawsuits to avoid publicity and attach a non-disclosure agreement. Is a program not abusive as long as it has the money to buy silence from victims?
Post by: Anonymous on September 02, 2008, 03:33:34 PM
Post by: Che Gookin on September 02, 2008, 11:13:28 PM
Post by: Che Gookin on September 02, 2008, 11:13:35 PM
Quote from: "OPEN MIND"
Quote from: "Guest"Based on the GAO report and here on fornits there are a handful of abusive places so lets double that to be conservative. There are 300 - 500 TBS's and 2 to 3 times as many RTC's and bootcamps , wilderness etc. So a conservative estimate would be 2% of the facilities are abusive.
So...you wanna start naming off some tried and true, safe as milk programs?
You gave yourself away there dude. Still good point..
Show us the "Safe" programs dudes.. and I'll show you a bucket of festering monkey shit. There is no way.. Absolutely no way a program can promise the complete safety from abuse, neglect, death, or injury of a child.
So what they do is play the fear game.. So you want your kid deadorinjail or more or less safe here at this program? Then they underscore the potential dangers of restraints, verbal battering, physical abuse, and the whole rigamarole of bullshit a kid can or does face everyday in the pay for play torture system.
Post by: TheWho on September 03, 2008, 08:13:17 AM
Quote
Show us the "Safe" programs dudes.. and I'll show you a bucket of festering monkey shit. There is no way.. Absolutely no way a program can promise the complete safety from abuse, neglect, death, or injury of a child.
Exactly, the same way an airline cannot promise your plane will not crash or a public school system cannot promise the teacher will not sleep with your child or abuse them. We all know the risks involved with any decision. So we look at the numbers and weigh the risks and realize the low risk involved in getting your child help versus doing nothing and allowing the child to continue down their present path.
Post by: Anonymous on September 03, 2008, 09:36:15 AM
Quote from: "GusVern"
QuoteShow us the "Safe" programs dudes.. and I'll show you a bucket of festering monkey shit. There is no way.. Absolutely no way a program can promise the complete safety from abuse, neglect, death, or injury of a child.
Exactly, the same way an airline cannot promise your plane will not crash or a public school system cannot promise the teacher will not sleep with your child or abuse them. We all know the risks involved with any decision. So we look at the numbers and weigh the risks and realize the low risk involved in getting your child help versus doing nothing and allowing the child to continue down their present path.
Yeah, but a plane crash is reported to the public and there will be a Federal investigation. Caveat emptor, an airline with a record number of crashes will not last because the information is widely reported. This program mindset - "A few kids die or suffer abuse, but we help so many" is bullshit. I see no reliable evidence that adolescent RTC's are effective, but there's a long list of kids who have died, and you're aware of the number of abused patients, you argue with them on Fornits and other forums.
You've offered nothing to prove RTC's are low risk.
Post by: Froderik on September 03, 2008, 09:49:23 AM
Day in, day out..for years now, the same old malarkey.
Post by: TheWho on September 03, 2008, 01:19:59 PM
Quote from: "No."
Quote from: "GusVern"QuoteShow us the "Safe" programs dudes.. and I'll show you a bucket of festering monkey shit. There is no way.. Absolutely no way a program can promise the complete safety from abuse, neglect, death, or injury of a child.
Exactly, the same way an airline cannot promise your plane will not crash or a public school system cannot promise the teacher will not sleep with your child or abuse them. We all know the risks involved with any decision. So we look at the numbers and weigh the risks and realize the low risk involved in getting your child help versus doing nothing and allowing the child to continue down their present path.
Yeah, but a plane crash is reported to the public and there will be a Federal investigation. Caveat emptor, an airline with a record number of crashes will not last because the information is widely reported. This program mindset - "A few kids die or suffer abuse, but we help so many" is bullshit. I see no reliable evidence that adolescent RTC's are effective, but there's a long list of kids who have died, and you're aware of the number of abused patients, you argue with them on Fornits and other forums.
You've offered nothing to prove RTC's are low risk.
I havent seen evidence that RTC's are a high risk or higher than our public school system. Any RTC which allows abuse to accur will eventually fold due to public pressure just like any other business. Regulation will insure a reporting system is in place.
Post by: Anonymous on September 03, 2008, 02:43:44 PM
Public school system? For fuck's sake, parents are paying out the ass to put their kids in an RTC and avoid the public school system, expecting to keep the kids safe. There's the hackneyed programee cliche about preventing kids from ending up "dead or in jail". You have programs failing on that "dead" thing. No, parents expect the RTC's to be safer than public schools, that's why they pay for them. Not a valid comparison.
Post by: TheWho on September 03, 2008, 06:27:29 PM
Quote
You miss the point of the airline analogy. What public pressure will be put on an abusive program if no one investigates? There is no organization like the FAA to insure a proper investigation is done. The general public is clueless about RTC's, unlike plane crashes. Look at Thayer and how difficult it is to get any investigation going in Reyes' death. Regulation will not insure a reporting system if Bush gets his way and states are accountable, the status quo will remain. Tennessee has strict regulations for licensed facilities, and the comptroller's audit/Board of Licensed Facilities released three months ago blasted the department of mental health for negligence in investigating abuse.So it sounds like we need an FAA type association to oversee RTC’s. Thats not a bad idea!
Quote
Public school system? For fuck's sake, parents are paying out the ass to put their kids in an RTC and avoid the public school system, expecting to keep the kids safe. There's the hackneyed programee cliche about preventing kids from ending up "dead or in jail". You have programs failing on that "dead" thing. No, parents expect the RTC's to be safer than public schools, that's why they pay for them. Not a valid comparison.Well sure, they should expect them to be safer than public schools. The public schools today carry a very high risk and thousands of kids are killed, commit suicide, abused by teachers who shouldn’t even be teaching. If a parent can afford it a boarding school is a much better option and if the child is at risk then a TBS is still a better option then tossing your kid into a public institution pretending no problem exists and expecting the teachers to deal with them because the kids problems will never get addressed in the public sector.
Post by: Anonymous on September 04, 2008, 10:01:23 AM
Post by: Anonymous on September 04, 2008, 11:42:47 AM
Quote from: "GusVeern"
I havent seen evidence that RTC's are a high risk
Bullshit, you've seen plenty of it. You just refuse to acknowledge it, especially on here
Quote
or higher than our public school system. Any RTC which allows abuse to accur will eventually fold due to public pressure just like any other business. Regulation will insure a reporting system is in place.
Sure. Just like Straight, right? They don't close. They change names, sometimes locations, shift staff around, disperse the kids off into other programs but they don't close. Especially the larger ones like WWASPS, Aspen and Straight. They "close" the one place down and just transfer all the kids to another one of their programs.
http://psychobulletin.blogspot.com/2008 ... ssion.html (http://psychobulletin.blogspot.com/2008/08/adolescent-depression.html)
Because of the behavior problems that often co-exist with adolescent depression, many parents are tempted to send their child to a "boot camp", "wilderness program", or "emotional growth school."
These programs often use non-medical staff, confrontational therapies, and harsh punishments. There is no scientific evidence to support such programs. In fact, there is a growing body of research which suggests that they can actually harm sensitive teens with depression.
Post by: TheWho on September 04, 2008, 04:08:13 PM
Quote
Bullshit, you've seen plenty of it. You just refuse to acknowledge it, especially on here
Well , I guess we need to define high risk. I have seen individual cases and accounts of abuse written here on fornits, but there is no evidence that RC’s have a higher incidence of abuse then the public school system.
Quote
Sure. Just like Straight, right? They don't close. They change names, sometimes locations, shift staff around, disperse the kids off into other programs but they don't close. Especially the larger ones like WWASPS, Aspen and Straight. They "close" the one place down and just transfer all the kids to another one of their programs.
If there was an FAA type of organization then programs would not be able to do this.
Post by: TheWho on September 05, 2008, 02:48:58 PM
Post by: TheWho on September 06, 2008, 01:12:25 PM
Quote
Because of the behavior problems that often co-exist with adolescent depression, many parents are tempted to send their child to a "boot camp", "wilderness program", or "emotional growth school."
These programs often use non-medical staff, confrontational therapies, and harsh punishments. There is no scientific evidence to support such programs. In fact, there is a growing body of research which suggests that they can actually harm sensitive teens with depression.
This is one reason why I have been advocating for programs to be required to have a school counsellor or the childs therapist sign-off on the placement prior to the child being accepted. This may reduce the amount of un-needed placements.
Another requirement I am in favor of is having the child evaluated prior to being placed. Some kids have never seen a professional and may have pre-existing conditions which would warrant local services/interventions or medication versus being sent to a program solely based on a parents say so.
...
Post by: Che Gookin on September 07, 2008, 02:19:23 AM
Quote from: "TheWho"
QuoteBecause of the behavior problems that often co-exist with adolescent depression, many parents are tempted to send their child to a "boot camp", "wilderness program", or "emotional growth school."
These programs often use non-medical staff, confrontational therapies, and harsh punishments. There is no scientific evidence to support such programs. In fact, there is a growing body of research which suggests that they can actually harm sensitive teens with depression.
This is one reason why I have been advocating for programs to be required to have a school counsellor or the childs therapist sign-off on the placement prior to the child being accepted. This may reduce the amount of un-needed placements.
Another requirement I am in favor of is having the child evaluated prior to being placed. Some kids have never seen a professional and may have pre-existing conditions which would warrant local services/interventions or medication versus being sent to a program solely based on a parents say so.
...
Programs definitely should have the parents go to a psychiatrist before considering a placement for their children. This way a determination can be made as to how safe the child is from the Parents. To many psycho parents out there...
Post by: TheWho on September 08, 2008, 02:19:56 PM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Programs definitely should have the parents go to a psychiatrist before considering a placement for their children. This way a determination can be made as to how safe the child is from the Parents. To many psycho parents out there...
I kind of see what you are saying. This would be one more look at the family situation. If the school counsellors or childs therapist doesn’t quite think the child would benefit from a program, merely based on the childs evaluation, a family situation may tip the scales in favour of sending the child away if the kids home life is unstable or the parents are struggling themselves.
The child would benefit from being removed from an abusive or ineffective family environment in this instance. I would not suggest a TBS unless the child could benefit directly, I would lean more towards a traditional boarding school.
Good point!
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 08, 2008, 03:01:52 PM
Post by: Che Gookin on September 08, 2008, 05:21:36 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Che Gookin"Programs definitely should have the parents go to a psychiatrist before considering a placement for their children. This way a determination can be made as to how safe the child is from the Parents. To many psycho parents out there...
I kind of see what you are saying. This would be one more look at the family situation. If the school counsellors or childs therapist doesn’t quite think the child would benefit from a program, merely based on the childs evaluation, a family situation may tip the scales in favour of sending the child away if the kids home life is unstable or the parents are struggling themselves.
The child would benefit from being removed from an abusive or ineffective family environment in this instance. I would not suggest a TBS unless the child could benefit directly, I would lean more towards a traditional boarding school.
Good point!
...
Good you see it my way, because 99.99% of the kids I dealt with were victims of their parent's ineptitude.
Post by: TheWho on September 08, 2008, 06:12:05 PM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Good you see it my way, because 99.99% of the kids I dealt with were victims of their parent's ineptitude.
Yes, it is very rare that I am in-line with anyone elses view here (or even close). I havent seen those numbers, though. Most of the kids I have seen were from good families and parenting skills were not the issue or cause. Seems the kid strayed for one reason or another and had difficulty getting back on track, siblings were doing well.
...
Post by: shanlea on September 09, 2008, 03:03:27 PM
I have no idea if this is true across the board, but at CEDU, we had a large holding of youths from well-to-do families. They often had an excess of material needs, but were very poor in terms of emotional sustenance. Many of our parents were too busy, or like mine, couldn't be bothered to actually care for their children. Then, our teens hit and WHAMMO.... the parents didn't know what to do when they treated their child like a neglected plant but ended up with a overgrown jungle.
What bothered me, however, was that CEDU did NOT address parent-child relations with integrity or honesty. The parents were the money train. Thus, students were subjected to a disproportionate amount of blame and attack in an effort to keep the parents "emotionally comfortable" at all times. In fact, it was often vital to impede the progress of any honest dialogue, and CEDU's ability to isolate us from our families and monitor our calls worked in their favor at our expense. Sometimes, CEDU would fan the flames of our antipathy toward our parents, and then use it to their advantage to show parents how ungrateful we were, and how much work was left to do.
One of the things I learned quickly at CEDU was to never ever contradict or negate CEDU's "teachings" because they would lie or hyperbolize your "sickness" to your parents as payback. The more you complained, the more payback you receive din the form of CEDU manipulating your family. This was one primary method of control. People wonder why those upper students gave such lovely "pro Cedu" tours of the facility, and this is why. Payback was a bitch.
Post by: TheWho on September 09, 2008, 03:59:39 PM
Quote from: "shanlea"
The Who said: 00.02% of the kids I dealt with were victims of their parent's ineptitude.
I have no idea if this is true across the board, but at CEDU, we had a large holding of youths from well-to-do families. They often had an excess of material needs, but were very poor in terms of emotional sustenance. Many of our parents were too busy, or like mine, couldn't be bothered to actually care for their children. Then, our teens hit and WHAMMO.... the parents didn't know what to do when they treated their child like a neglected plant but ended up with a overgrown jungle.
What bothered me, however, was that CEDU did NOT address parent-child relations with integrity or honesty. The parents were the money train. Thus, students were subjected to a disproportionate amount of blame and attack in an effort to keep the parents "emotionally comfortable" at all times. In fact, it was often vital to impede the progress of any honest dialogue, and CEDU's ability to isolate us from our families and monitor our calls worked in their favor at our expense. Sometimes, CEDU would fan the flames of our antipathy toward our parents, and then use it to their advantage to show parents how ungrateful we were, and how much work was left to do.
One of the things I learned quickly at CEDU was to never ever contradict or negate CEDU's "teachings" because they would lie or hyperbolize your "sickness" to your parents as payback. The more you complained, the more payback you receive din the form of CEDU manipulating your family. This was one primary method of control. People wonder why those upper students gave such lovely "pro Cedu" tours of the facility, and this is why. Payback was a bitch.
Post by: TheWho on September 09, 2008, 05:12:56 PM
Quote from: "shanlea"
The Who said: 00.02% of the kids I dealt with were victims of their parent's ineptitude.
I have no idea if this is true across the board, but at CEDU, we had a large holding of youths from well-to-do families. They often had an excess of material needs, but were very poor in terms of emotional sustenance. Many of our parents were too busy, or like mine, couldn't be bothered to actually care for their children. Then, our teens hit and WHAMMO.... the parents didn't know what to do when they treated their child like a neglected plant but ended up with a overgrown jungle.
What bothered me, however, was that CEDU did NOT address parent-child relations with integrity or honesty. The parents were the money train. Thus, students were subjected to a disproportionate amount of blame and attack in an effort to keep the parents "emotionally comfortable" at all times. In fact, it was often vital to impede the progress of any honest dialogue, and CEDU's ability to isolate us from our families and monitor our calls worked in their favor at our expense. Sometimes, CEDU would fan the flames of our antipathy toward our parents, and then use it to their advantage to show parents how ungrateful we were, and how much work was left to do.
One of the things I learned quickly at CEDU was to never ever contradict or negate CEDU's "teachings" because they would lie or hyperbolize your "sickness" to your parents as payback. The more you complained, the more payback you receive din the form of CEDU manipulating your family. This was one primary method of control. People wonder why those upper students gave such lovely "pro Cedu" tours of the facility, and this is why. Payback was a bitch.
I am not sure if the 00.02% is an accurate number but I do agree it is low. Very few of the kids who are at risk are due to poor parenting. I think it is too bad that the school/ program you attended didn’t promote family values more than they did. One of the keys to a successful stay at a TBS is the healing that occurs between the child and his/her family members. I believe as we see more of the restrictions, which block communication between parent and child, lifted and create a clear conduit for the child and family to work thru we will see the success rates increase in some of these programs which are not very effective.
This view that the parents are to blame for everything in the childs life is typical and most parents take it with a grain of salt because they/we remember when we were kids. This is merely a maturing process. Once the kids reach their early 20’s they take more responsibility for their actions and they look back on their difficult teen years with a more realistic view point.
...
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on September 09, 2008, 05:56:17 PM
Let me guess...you're referring to the healing ASR offered via their competent staff such as
Brett & Lisa Carey
&
Ray & Sharon Kreider
?
The very same Careys and Kreiders that were power staff of CEDU ?
Happy outsourcing!
Post by: TheWho on September 09, 2008, 06:22:20 PM
Quote from: "dishdutyfugitive"
Let me guess...you're referring to the healing ASR offered via their competent staff.....
No, I am speaking to “all” programs which are successful not just ASR or a handful of staff. You cant put every kid on the hook for all the problems he is causing or experiencing. In many instances the problems are shared by the entire family and therefore have to be approached as a family issue.
I know from reading here that many feel it is the parents fault or that the parents blame the child for everything but in reality both of these mindsets are inaccurate and if treated as such will be doomed to fail. I think what you will see is as the industry evolves it will focus more and more on the family to resolve the problems and less on just one individual.
...
Post by: Awake on September 09, 2008, 08:01:45 PM
Quote from: "shanlea."
Quote from: "shanlea"The Who said: 00.02% of the kids I dealt with were victims of their parent's ineptitude.
I have no idea if this is true across the board, but at CEDU, we had a large holding of youths from well-to-do families. They often had an excess of material needs, but were very poor in terms of emotional sustenance. Many of our parents were too busy, or like mine, couldn't be bothered to actually care for their children. Then, our teens hit and WHAMMO.... the parents didn't know what to do when they treated their child like a neglected plant but ended up with a overgrown jungle.
What bothered me, however, was that CEDU did NOT address parent-child relations with integrity or honesty. The parents were the money train. Thus, students were subjected to a disproportionate amount of blame and attack in an effort to keep the parents "emotionally comfortable" at all times. In fact, it was often vital to impede the progress of any honest dialogue, and CEDU's ability to isolate us from our families and monitor our calls worked in their favor at our expense. Sometimes, CEDU would fan the flames of our antipathy toward our parents, and then use it to their advantage to show parents how ungrateful we were, and how much work was left to do.
One of the things I learned quickly at CEDU was to never ever contradict or negate CEDU's "teachings" because they would lie or hyperbolize your "sickness" to your parents as payback. The more you complained, the more payback you receive din the form of CEDU manipulating your family. This was one primary method of control. People wonder why those upper students gave such lovely "pro Cedu" tours of the facility, and this is why. Payback was a bitch.
Thank you for that. It is exactly how I feel with regards to Cedu, and as far as I'm concerned the outlook on all these programs. It never ceases to amaze me how people will continue to insist that it is possible to fix a family by dividing it.
Post by: TheWho on September 09, 2008, 08:33:33 PM
Quote from: "Awake"
It never ceases to amaze me how people will continue to insist that it is possible to fix a family by dividing it.
It is not an insistence, really, but more of an observation and is not only possible but is considered the most successful path in may cases. Sometimes people need to be apart to heal and gain a better perspective. It can be a difficult concept for those who have not experienced the success, believe me I know, awake, I use to think the same thing. You never want to disrupt a healthy and thriving family, I agree, but if there is a dynamic which is preventing a person from growing or healing then they need to be removed from that dynamic (plain and simple)... repair both sides independently and then reunite.
The separation need not be permanent. In almost every life changing event the person is removed to a safe and neutral place to heal and then they return to the family fold... i.e child birth, therapy, schooling, honeymoon, vacation, career, almost any type of surgery etc.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2008, 03:11:22 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 10, 2008, 04:45:18 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Awake"It never ceases to amaze me how people will continue to insist that it is possible to fix a family by dividing it.
It is not an insistence, really, but more of an observation and is not only possible but is considered the most successful path in may cases. Sometimes people need to be apart to heal and gain a better perspective. It can be a difficult concept for those who have not experienced the success, believe me I know, awake, I use to think the same thing. You never want to disrupt a healthy and thriving family, I agree, but if there is a dynamic which is preventing a person from growing or healing then they need to be removed from that dynamic (plain and simple)... repair both sides independently and then reunite.
The separation need not be permanent. In almost every life changing event the person is removed to a safe and neutral place to heal and then they return to the family fold... i.e child birth, therapy, schooling, honeymoon, vacation, career, almost any type of surgery etc.
...
Jesus. It sends a message to the kids that their parents are fucked up like the who and a program has to save them from the "toxic relationship" . This is bullshit, the same bullshit that came out of Robert Litchfield's mouth in Tranquility Bay. Watch it sometime you monotonous baboon.
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on September 10, 2008, 05:24:41 PM
I'm sure Brett Carey and Ray Kreider have publicly apologized for their contribution to what shanlea described. I'm sure they 'saw the light' and made a 180 before they started teaching at ASR. I'm sure all of the CEDU staff have done the same.
I'm sure that CEDU left no legacy or impression on past, present and future TBS staff.
Why?
Cuz we all live in a Who-like dream where 2 + 2 = 5.
Post by: TheWho on September 10, 2008, 05:26:41 PM
Quote from: "who farted."
Jesus. It sends a message to the kids that their parents are fucked up like the who and a program has to save them from the "toxic relationship" . This is bullshit, the same bullshit that came out of Robert Litchfield's mouth in Tranquility Bay. Watch it sometime you monotonous baboon.
It is not BS, as you have indicated. Sure there are kids that have a toxic home life, but kids attend TBS’s, wilderness and RTC’s for a wide variety of reasons. The one thing they “do” have in common, for the most part, is that local solutions have not been affective for them so they need to look outside their community for help.
Where many here get hung up is on the idea that every situation is the same and it just isn’t. This is a common fallacy I have seen repeated here over and over that every staff member is the same or that all TBS’s are the same, every kids parents are to blame etc.. We don’t need a study to tell us that this just isn’t true. Why many here think and post this way is unknown, and curious, but many speculate that it is just easier to paint everyone the same so that it keeps posters from expressing individual opinions or having to disagree on who is good and who is bad and thereby risk giving the impression there is discourse within fornits or more than one mindset exists which may weaken the cause or unity.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2008, 09:05:44 AM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "who farted."Jesus. It sends a message to the kids that their parents are fucked up like the who and a program has to save them from the "toxic relationship" . This is bullshit, the same bullshit that came out of Robert Litchfield's mouth in Tranquility Bay. Watch it sometime you monotonous baboon.
It is not BS, as you have indicated. Sure there are kids that have a toxic home life, but kids attend TBS’s, wilderness and RTC’s for a wide variety of reasons. The one thing they “do” have in common, for the most part, is that local solutions have not been affective for them so they need to look outside their community for help.
Where many here get hung up is on the idea that every situation is the same and it just isn’t. This is a common fallacy I have seen repeated here over and over that every staff member is the same or that all TBS’s are the same, every kids parents are to blame etc.. We don’t need a study to tell us that this just isn’t true. Why many here think and post this way is unknown, and curious, but many speculate that it is just easier to paint everyone the same so that it keeps posters from expressing individual opinions or having to disagree on who is good and who is bad and thereby risk giving the impression there is discourse within fornits or more than one mindset exists which may weaken the cause or unity.
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You support WWASP and Litchfield's treatment philosophies and you promote abusive programs on Fornits.
Post by: TheWho on September 11, 2008, 09:27:59 AM
Quote from: "Who Sucks"
You support WWASP and Litchfield's treatment philosophies and you promote abusive programs on Fornits.
I am not familiar with the WWASP programs philosophies although I have heard and some read of them here on fornits. As far as Litchfield is concerned I have never met or read about him so I am not familiar with his treatment philosophies.
Anyone who has read any of my positions knows that I do not support any program which abuses children.
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Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2008, 11:35:54 AM
Post by: TheWho on September 11, 2008, 11:52:35 AM
Quote from: "Who stink"
Nor will you list non-abusive programs. You really know nothing from what we've seen.
You shouldnt judge someone based on that alone. Fornits has been around for a quite a few years and no one has been able to produce a list of abusive programs yet. I dont claim to be an expert in this area.
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Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2008, 12:32:13 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
List of abusive programs? Look at the board listing. Go to ISAC, go to the Fornits Wiki. If you're not aware that Fornits and others HAVE produced rather comprehensive lists of KNOWN ABUSIVE PROGRAMS, then you really are a liar. You hide behind your ignorance. Take the time to read up on your subject. You're certainly no expert, and obviously not even remotely informed. How can you "balance" the discussion on Fornits with so little knowledge?Quote from: "Who stink"Nor will you list non-abusive programs. You really know nothing from what we've seen.
You shouldnt judge someone based on that alone. Fornits has been around for a quite a few years and no one has been able to produce a list of abusive programs yet. I dont claim to be an expert in this area.
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Learn about programs across the board before you defend what you know nothing about.
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2008, 12:44:07 PM
Is abuse the use of aversive "therapies", that in every other country but the United States and Somalia would be commonly called torture, but because someone calls it "therapy" those who are supposed to protect children from child abuse look the other way?
Is abuse the use of hired kidnappers, more commonly known as "escort services" who abduct children in the middle of the night?
Is abuse the denial of due process that happens when a young person loses his or her freedom without the opportunity to meet before a judge or even speak to a lawyer?
Is abuse the broken bones and rug burns (not even getting into the deaths here) that are created in the middle of a restraint procedure where the staff was only "defending themselves" against a youth half their size?
Is abuse the sexual indescretions that a staff commits against a young person in their care, when that young person was acting "provocative"?
Or do you so narrowly define abuse to only include the abuse that happens in plain sight, as part of a programs protocol, that they have no license to administer?
Answer these questions, and I think we could come up with an appropriate list.
And as for separating youth from families, read up on the latest psychological literature Mr. Who. There is never a good reason to separate youth from families for any lengthy period of time, and this is not a problem that only inflicts the private industry. Your information is dated and obviously handpicked to support the industry for whom you work for.
You screen name is an affront to the band who recorded Baba O'Riley and Won't Get Fooled Again.
Post by: TheWho on September 11, 2008, 01:11:38 PM
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The question is, "How do you define abuse"?No, I don’t base abuse on what other countries have to say. Iran executes people for being gay, other countries stone woman to death for adultery or embarrassing the family. We need to define it within our own society and ideals. Using other countries as a benchmark would be a mistake in my opinion.
Is abuse the use of aversive "therapies", that in every other country but the United States and Somalia would be commonly called torture, but because someone calls it "therapy" those who are supposed to protect children from child abuse look the other way?
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Is abuse the use of hired kidnappers, more commonly known as "escort services" who abduct children in the middle of the night?I don’t see escort services as abusive if the family feels the child would not get help willingly, the child needs the help and the parents would not be able to transport the child themselves. We have all seen kidnappers errrr EMC’s who transport people against their will every day via ambulances (nice soft name) to get treatment that they never agreed to but since a family member signed the paper that gives the drivers the right to kidnap the person.
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Is abuse the denial of due process that happens when a young person loses his or her freedom without the opportunity to meet before a judge or even speak to a lawyer?What freedom? The parents are on the hook until the child reaches 21 (18), at least in the states they are. Kids cant vote or have a choice until they are older. If they did how many would get on the bus willingly every day? They would all have lawyers!!
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Is abuse the broken bones and rug burns (not even getting into the deaths here) that are created in the middle of a restraint procedure where the staff was only "defending themselves" against a youth half their size?Well that would be for a court to decide. If the staff were properly trained and the restraint was warranted then I don’t see this as abusive. I don’t think restraints need to be administered based on a persons size. The child could hurt themselves while staff is running around trying to find a person just the right size and who is qualified and trained properly to carry out the restraint.
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Is abuse the sexual indescretions that a staff commits against a young person in their care, when that young person was acting "provocative"?Yes, I would consider this abusive
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Or do you so narrowly define abuse to only include the abuse that happens in plain sight, as part of a programs protocol, that they have no license to administer?Abuse is abuse whether it happens behind close doors or in public, whether a school is licensed or not should not effect the definition of the word.
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Answer these questions, and I think we could come up with an appropriate list.There you go.....
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And as for separating youth from families, read up on the latest psychological literature Mr. Who. There is never a good reason to separate youth from families for any lengthy period of time, and this is not a problem that only inflicts the private industry. Your information is dated and obviously handpicked to support the industry for whom you work for.
I disagree with you. I think we need to do whatever it takes to help our kids. We shouldn’t have to listen to fringe groups or religious groups like Christian Scientists to tell us we should heal our kids at home no matter how sick they are because that happens to be their opinion. If a child needs to be separated from his/her family to be healed then we need to decide in the best interest of the child. I dont think the family should be selfish and keep the child home so they can protect their retirement or worry about what others may think.
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Post by: TheWho on September 11, 2008, 01:28:32 PM
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You screen name is an affront to the band who recorded Baba O'Riley and Won't Get Fooled Again.
"Won’t get fooled again" is typically a favorite of the parents as their child is escorted away... err I guess that was in poor taste, but I just couldn’t resist.
They also wrote "I've had enough" Quadraphenia album I believe.
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Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2008, 02:43:57 PM
Post by: TheWho on September 11, 2008, 03:14:41 PM
Quote from: "Who reek"
Brian's right. It's an affront and it's Quadrophenia. You really know nothing about anything.
Cant agree with the affront.. and no they were not both quadrophenia just "I've had enough". You should look it up!
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2008, 04:34:24 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Who reek"Brian's right. It's an affront and it's Quadrophenia. You really know nothing about anything.
Cant agree with the affront.. and no they were not both quadrophenia just "I've had enough". You should look it up!
LOOK: You spelled it "Quadraphenia", not Quadrophenia, which I pointed out. You're an idiot. Do you always have such a problem with reading comprehension, or is it selective? No wonder you can't name any non-abusive programs.
Why do you post here at all, given your ignorance of the industry? Of everything?
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2008, 04:35:28 PM
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No, I don’t base abuse on what other countries have to say. Iran executes people for being gay, other countries stone woman to death for adultery or embarrassing the family. We need to define it within our own society and ideals. Using other countries as a benchmark would be a mistake in my opinion.
Not using other countries as a benchmark for what should be considered acceptable I agree with. Using other countries human rights violations to justify our own is unacceptable.
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I don’t see escort services as abusive if the family feels the child would not get help willingly, the child needs the help and the parents would not be able to transport the child themselves. We have all seen kidnappers errrr EMC’s who transport people against their will every day via ambulances (nice soft name) to get treatment that they never agreed to but since a family member signed the paper that gives the drivers the right to kidnap the person.
One is licensed, and in the case of police ambulences where you can be handcuffed, given authority by the court system as a police power, your escort services are usually unlicensed. In fact, if a youth is really such a danger to themselves or others that they need to be removed from home and need hospitalization or transported from a hospital to a residential facility, why use an escort service when you can get an ambulance for free?
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What freedom? The parents are on the hook until the child reaches 21 (18), at least in the states they are. Kids cant vote or have a choice until they are older. If they did how many would get on the bus willingly every day? They would all have lawyers!!
Setting aside what should be, (granting youth the rights to make the decisions you so easily dismiss) residential treatment is an open-ended jail sentence and should be treated with the same seriousness. If the youth really needs it let someone who doesn't have a conflict of interest in the matter decide.
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Well that would be for a court to decide. If the staff were properly trained and the restraint was warranted then I don’t see this as abusive. I don’t think restraints need to be administered based on a persons size. The child could hurt themselves while staff is running around trying to find a person just the right size and who is qualified and trained properly to carry out the restraint.
As for my faith in the courts to judge this matter, see the Marvin Lee Anderson case. Ultimately, until you accept that youth do have rights and that youth do have strengths even if they do have emotional or behavioral challenges, then you will continue to see them as deserving of whatever treatment they receive, as the Florida and Utah courts have so marvelously demonstrated. Restraint injuries in the name of treatment is unacceptable. I agree that this isn't the easiest of challenges to solve, but to accept things as they are is pathetic.
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Yes, I would consider this abusive
Even a blind squirrel catches a nut every once in awhile (I should be nicer on this one, hey we're even for the "Won't Get Fooled Again" crack)
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Abuse is abuse whether it happens behind close doors or in public, whether a school is licensed or not should not effect the definition of the word.
This hasn't necessarily been a critique about regulated vs. unregulated. Actually, most of the programs I had in mind when I wrote this are regulated. Even most of your beloved Aspen programs are regulated, well at least the ones in Utah are. This is a discussion about what practices are abusive. We seem to have a fundamental disagreement on this matter.
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I disagree with you. I think we need to do whatever it takes to help our kids. We shouldn’t have to listen to fringe groups or religious groups like Christian Scientists to tell us we should heal our kids at home no matter how sick they are because that happens to be their opinion. If a child needs to be separated from his/her family to be healed then we need to decide in the best interest of the child. I dont think the family should be selfish and keep the child home so they can protect their retirement or worry about what others may think.
http://www.tapartnership.org (http://www.tapartnership.org) (Federal Government, not run by a bunch of Christian Scientists nor is it a fringe group)
Even when every home-based intervention has been tried, and an out-of-home placement is advised, usually by an entire team of professionals, not just an educational consultant and an admissions director, according to current best practices, the longest recommended adjustment period is maybe a week of physical separation and the parents transport the youth to the residence themselves. And a transition to weekend home passes within the first few weeks of placement.
Of course, if you did all that, it would be so much harder to convince parents that they were doing the right thing when their youth told them how horrible they were being treated, and then you would have less youth that you could work with.
It's hard to know if you really believe all of this (I don't know how you could sleep at night if you didn't) or if you make enough money like the Lichfield's doing this that you don't have to worry about such things.
So going under the assumption that you actually believe this crap, which to be fair you are in good company believing in this crap, where did your beliefs about the appropriate treatment of adolescents come from?
As for your list, since the only abuse you identified was sexual misconduct, and I'm assuming you would add that the perp was convicted and wasn't dealt appropriately by the facility, then I suppose by your logic there are no confirmedly abusive facilities, only abusers and unfortunate incidents which can happen anywhere, anytime and aren't limited to residential programs. Of course, what about the programs that hire former abusers out of negligence or indifference, are they abusive?
As for a real list, ISAC, HEAL, and Teen Advocates USA each have comprehensive lists that you can see for yourself.
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2008, 04:51:12 PM
@Who: You want to see "balanced" discussions? Go to StrugglingTeens and get Lon to allow alternate viewpoints there. We allow you to spam here, why don't you level the playing field?
Post by: TheWho on September 11, 2008, 05:28:29 PM
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Not using other countries as a benchmark for what should be considered acceptable I agree with. Using other countries human rights violations to justify our own is unacceptable.I think we agree here.
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One is licensed, and in the case of police ambulences where you can be handcuffed, given authority by the court system as a police power, your escort services are usually unlicensed. In fact, if a youth is really such a danger to themselves or others that they need to be removed from home and need hospitalization or transported from a hospital to a residential facility, why use an escort service when you can get an ambulance for free?It wont be free either way. In many cases the TBS or RTCs are outside of the local community. Ambulances typically will not transport people to the airport and onto airplanes etc. Maybe after regulation takes hold and the treatment centers get more recognition from the insurance companies this may become possible, but right now the only option is escort services
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Setting aside what should be, (granting youth the rights to make the decisions you so easily dismiss) residential treatment is an open-ended jail sentence and should be treated with the same seriousness. If the youth really needs it let someone who doesn't have a conflict of interest in the matter decide.I agree, I am an advocate to have the child’s therapist or school counsellor sign off on every placement.
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As for my faith in the courts to judge this matter, see the Marvin Lee Anderson case. Ultimately, until you accept that youth do have rights and that youth do have strengths even if they do have emotional or behavioral challenges, then you will continue to see them as deserving of whatever treatment they receive, as the Florida and Utah courts have so marvelously demonstrated. Restraint injuries in the name of treatment is unacceptable. I agree that this isn't the easiest of challenges to solve, but to accept things as they are is pathetic.,
The use of restraint should be well defined and accepted by all parties (legal ,therapeutic community etc.) If used outside of the requirements then the people should be reprimanded.
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Even a blind squirrel catches a nut every once in awhile (I should be nicer on this one, hey we're even for the "Won't Get Fooled Again" crack)Okay, this pretty much cements my suspicion that you non-conformists are all the same.
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This hasn't necessarily been a critique about regulated vs. unregulated. Actually, most of the programs I had in mind when I wrote this are regulated. Even most of your beloved Aspen programs are regulated, well at least the ones in Utah are. This is a discussion about what practices are abusive. We seem to have a fundamental disagreement on this matter.Yes, we do, and I particularly don’t agree with many of the ways abuse is defined here.
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http://www.tapartnership.org (http://www.tapartnership.org) (Federal Government, not run by a bunch of Christian Scientists nor is it a fringe group)Would not be the first time I disagreed with the government. I think there should be exceptions.
Even when every home-based intervention has been tried, and an out-of-home placement is advised, usually by an entire team of professionals, not just an educational consultant and an admissions director, according to current best practices, the longest recommended adjustment period is maybe a week of physical separation and the parents transport the youth to the residence themselves. And a transition to weekend home passes within the first few weeks of placement.
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Of course, if you did all that, it would be so much harder to convince parents that they were doing the right thing when their youth told them how horrible they were being treated, and then you would have less youth that you could work with.You could not effectively change a persons behavior in a week or two. Behavior modification is a long process.
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It's hard to know if you really believe all of this (I don't know how you could sleep at night if you didn't) or if you make enough money like the Lichfield's doing this that you don't have to worry about such things.I don’t make any money off the industry with the exception of maybe some retirement investments that I may not be aware of.
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So going under the assumption that you actually believe this crap, which to be fair you are in good company believing in this crap, where did your beliefs about the appropriate treatment of adolescents come from?Personal experience, reading,.... I have seen the results of not treating adolescents which is rarely discussed here. I have seen them die and end up in jail ( the insane not so much), seen them end up on the streets because no one intervened or cared enough. I have spoken with kids who wished they had more structure or were forced to finish highschool because they cant support their wife and kids or have struggled with substance abuse for so long the way out is almost impossible.
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As for your list, since the only abuse you identified was sexual misconduct, and I'm assuming you would add that the perp was convicted and wasn't dealt appropriately by the facility, then I suppose by your logic there are no confirmedly abusive facilities, only abusers and unfortunate incidents which can happen anywhere, anytime and aren't limited to residential programs. Of course, what about the programs that hire former abusers out of negligence or indifference, are they abusive?
As for a real list, ISAC, HEAL, and Teen Advocates USA each have comprehensive lists that you can see for yourself.
Yes, I do believe there are abusers who enjoy the power trip, but this has nothing to do with treatment centers or programs unless, like you mentioned, they knowingly hire them. Then yes they would considered abusive in my opinion.
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Post by: Froderik on September 11, 2008, 05:37:43 PM
Post by: TheWho on September 11, 2008, 06:08:24 PM
Quote from: "Froderik"
I find this post quite disturbing and will have to reply later.
Ha,Ha, Frod you are a trip
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Post by: dishdutyfugitive on September 11, 2008, 06:26:00 PM
1.Widened the already massive divide between former program students and the TBS industry.
2. Sabotaged the opportunity for any alleged 'good program' to work together with 'surviovrs' of bad programs to 'truly' bring resolve to the long term negative effects of the TBS industry.
If any entity in the TBS industry had 1/2 a brain or an ounce of character they'd make genuine efforts to institute a 'good neighbor' policy and clean up their siblings' disasters.
They don't.
3. Proven the TBS industry doesn't give a fuck about the long term. You'll never see any long term longitudinal studies created/funded by them. Aspen's got a few horseshit, 3 year, hocus pocus 'studies' mentioned on their website. You can be certain the marketing and sales team had full oversight of that project. Imagine the amount of findings that got shitcanned in that exercise in alchemy. Talk about a rigged election.
Post by: TheWho on September 11, 2008, 06:41:24 PM
Quote from: "Who is Dumb."
LOOK: You spelled it "Quadraphenia", not Quadrophenia, which I pointed out. You're an idiot. Do you always have such a problem with reading comprehension, or is it selective? No wonder you can't name any non-abusive programs.
Why do you post here at all, given your ignorance of the industry? Of everything?
You used 4 capitol letters in the word “LOOK” which should have been written “Look”.
You placed a comma after “Quadraphenia”. It should have been written: Quadraphenia" not Quadrophenia, which I pointed out.
When using italics I would also suggest you place it on the emphasis and should have italicised Quadraphenia",not Quadrophenia, which I pointed out.” To better emphasize your point.
You placed a question mark after “Or everything” as if it was a question. I would also like to point out that “Or everything” is not a complete sentence.
If you are going to criticize someone you should at least work on your grammer. Did I say that correctly?
Sorry I should stop.......
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Post by: TheWho on September 11, 2008, 07:16:28 PM
Quote from: "dishdutyfugitive"
The 3 things he has accomplished are:There is only a divide with the students who didn’t do well.
1.Widened the already massive divide between former program students and the TBS industry.
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2. Sabotaged the opportunity for any alleged 'good program' to work together with 'surviovrs' of bad programs to 'truly' bring resolve to the long term negative effects of the TBS industry.Dish, are you saying there are "good" programs? Careful, there are many regulars watching tonight
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If any entity in the TBS industry had 1/2 a brain or an ounce of character they'd make genuine efforts to institute a 'good neighbor' policy and clean up their siblings' disasters.When Chrysler was going under Ford and GM never stepped forward to help with customer service. Just isn’t typically done.
They don't.
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3. Proven the TBS industry doesn't give a fuck about the long term. You'll never see any long term longitudinal studies created/funded by them. Aspen's got a few horseshit, 3 year, hocus pocus 'studies' mentioned on their website. You can be certain the marketing and sales team had full oversight of that project. Imagine the amount of findings that got shitcanned in that exercise in alchemy. Talk about a rigged election.I disagree, I think they are very interested in the long term. They would like to continuously improve their program so they can provide a better service and grow the business. But, we should be realistic and be honest with ourselves about where the effort is being placed. Once the check clears the focus moves to the next potential customer and how to best market their program. This is true for every successful industry. Survivors (past customers) are a poor investment because they only pass thru once and there is no profit in it.
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Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2008, 10:40:51 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Who is Dumb."
LOOK: You spelled it "Quadraphenia", not Quadrophenia, which I pointed out. You're an idiot. Do you always have such a problem with reading comprehension, or is it selective? No wonder you can't name any non-abusive programs.
Why do you post here at all, given your ignorance of the industry? Of everything?
You used 4 capitol letters in the word “LOOK” which should have been written “Look”.
You placed a comma after “Quadraphenia”. It should have been written: Quadraphenia" not Quadrophenia, which I pointed out.
When using italics I would also suggest you place it on the emphasis and should have italicised Quadraphenia",not Quadrophenia, which I pointed out.” To better emphasize your point.
You placed a question mark after “Or everything” as if it was a question. I would also like to point out that “Or everything” is not a complete sentence.
If you are going to criticize someone you should at least work on your grammer. Did I say that correctly?
Sorry I should stop.......
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You are a cunt. Did I say that correctly?
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2008, 10:49:42 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Who is Dumb."
LOOK: You spelled it "Quadraphenia", not Quadrophenia, which I pointed out. You're an idiot. Do you always have such a problem with reading comprehension, or is it selective? No wonder you can't name any non-abusive programs.
Why do you post here at all, given your ignorance of the industry? Of everything?
You placed a question mark after “Or everything” as if it was a question. I would also like to point out that “Or everything” is not a complete sentence.
If you are going to criticize someone you should at least work on your grammer. Did I say that correctly?
Sorry I should stop.......
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You need to pay more attention when you read. The original post has "Of everything?" and not "or anything?". The italicized Quadrophenia is correct since it is the name of the album. "Quadraphenia" was your misspelling and means nothing. If you are going to criticize someone at least make sure you know what you are talking about.
You have to stop, chunkhead, you are a clueless fuck. It is interesting to see you get pissed and bitchy.
Post by: TheWho on September 11, 2008, 11:00:46 PM
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The original post has "Of everything?" and not "or anything?".
Ha,Ha,Ha, you did it again. "Of everything?" is not a sentence and neither is "Or anything?"
Cant believe you missed it twice!! You were so focused on Quadrophenia and why you screwed up the italic that you reposted your mistake....
Oh, no the spelling Nazi is back!!! or is it.... "Oh no!!! The spelling Nazi is back!!! Ha,Ha,Ha
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Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2008, 11:08:35 PM
Post by: TheWho on September 11, 2008, 11:57:54 PM
Quote from: "Who's a cunt"
Where's your list of non-abusive programs, cunt? Ha, ha, ha.You are not a very nice person
Post by: Awake on September 12, 2008, 03:11:41 AM
I'm a little new here and I have no idea what the big fuss is over this thread. It is one of the longest threads here. (I couldn't imagine going over the entire content of it.) I mean no offense here, in fact I am just curious. I have noticed a trend and, if I am correct, you have a particular skill in running a conversation in circles. Is this all a game? I don't know if you don't want to expose this about yourself but maybe you just want to be found out. If it is true I applaude you! It is truly brilliant. An expose on the nature of man. Thank you.
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on September 12, 2008, 05:57:19 AM
You're correct. It's much to do about absolutely nothing. It's a ridiculous game.
The who is either an Aspen employee, a psychotic parent or a fictional character created by a Fornits regular to generate traffic.
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 06:40:13 AM
Quote from: "dishdutyfugitive"
Awake
The who is either an Aspen employee, a psychotic parent or a fictional character created by a Fornits regular to generate traffic.
Inclusive or, I presume.
Post by: psy on September 12, 2008, 06:40:41 AM
Quote from: "Awake"
you have a particular skill in running a conversation in circles.
Very, very, perceptive. It takes some people a long time to figure exactly what his M.O. is (at least it took me some time). I used to think it was just propaganda best dealt with by responding to it. Then I ended up repeating myself again and again, responding to the same crap over and over again. I eventually came to the conclusion his secondary (if not primary) purpose was to tire people out by running them in circles. Only real way to deal with it (for me at least) is to completely ignore him. I've run around in circles before, and frankly, I got a little sick of playing his game.
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Is this all a game?
I'm pretty sure it's professional for him, as well as personal. He has given clues, but I won't waste my time digging them up (he does slip up, though). If you hang around long enough, and read enough of his shit, it become crystal clear that he isn't "just a parent"... and why would anybody do what he does if he wasn't? If he was an honest man out to seek the truth, he wouldn't be running people around in circles like he does. So that rules out the humanitarian / seeker of truth possibility. I can't think of any other motivation than financial for him.
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I don't know if you don't want to expose this about yourself but maybe you just want to be found out. If it is true I applaude you! It is truly brilliant. An expose on the nature of man. Thank you.
Nature of man? Not sure i quite buy that. Nature of an abnormal man without a conscience... That I buy.
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 08:39:43 AM
Fundamentally, if you've been reading the last couple of pages of this thread, what becomes obvious is that The Who views this industry as any other business industry such as the auto manufacturing industry, which is apt given the send your kid to the program (body shop) to get fixed analogy.
Whether The Who is a program parent or an employee of the industry, the one thing that this dialouge is useful for is understanding the programee mentality, because the first step in defeating your enemy is to know your enemy.
I will give Mr. Who the benefit of the doubt that he is a real human being, (I'm sure he'll appreciate that) even so, trying to convince him the rightness of our position would be like trying to convince a member of NARAL that contraception = murder. So we run in circles like chickens with our heads cut off.
As such, our debate with The Who is then philosophical and political not moral. How do you even begin to have a discussion with someone who doesn't accept the autonomy of youth. It's useless.
This cult extends beyond just the parents and the survivors, it extends to the people who work in the industry themselves. They are too emotionally and financially invested to change the philosphical underpinnings that drive their industry; that youth have no autonomy, coercive behavioral modification is an acceptable way to change behavior, and that the market (parents who wish to change their children's behavior) is an acceptable area to exploit for financial gain*.
Abuse in residential programs can happen even when those three philosophies aren't engrained in the program protocol, but it sure as hell makes it more likely that abuse will happen when it does.
*The troubled teen industry is hardly the only industry that operates like this. Kaplan, the SAT tutoring company essentially does a similar financial exploitation, by aggressively marketing to parents how their children need to get a couple hundred more points on their test. Ultimately, the SAT is a standardized test and a zero-sum game. While being able to hire expensive tutors may be a true indication of how one would fare in college, in the great scheme of things Kaplan (and Princeton Review and all the other ones) adds nothing to society, collects great sums of money from middle & upper class parents, and causes teenagers a great deal of stress and anxiety in the process. But at the very least nobody died from going to Kaplan for tutoring.
Post by: TheWho on September 12, 2008, 09:44:33 AM
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Fundamentally, if you've been reading the last couple of pages of this thread, what becomes obvious is that The Who views this industry as any other business industry such as the auto manufacturing industry, which is apt given the send your kid to the program (body shop) to get fixed analogy.I believe people lose sight of the fact that people need to earn a living. Doctors make a huge income yet it doesn’t dissuade anyone from entrusting them. The fact that programs are asking for large sums of money is not a result of the industry. The price of each program is set by the parents not the industry.
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Whether The Who is a program parent or an employee of the industry, the one thing that this dialouge is useful for is understanding the programee mentality, because the first step in defeating your enemy is to know your enemy.You shouldn’t try to view programmes as the enemy. Kids become at-Risk for a variety of reasons and the parents (programmees) are desperately trying to help them. We would be helping more kids if we focused on the parents who are not involved in their childrens welfare or success and allowing their kids to continue down a self destructive path.
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I will give Mr. Who the benefit of the doubt that he is a real human being, (I'm sure he'll appreciate that) even so, trying to convince him the rightness of our position would be like trying to convince a member of NARAL that contraception = murder. So we run in circles like chickens with our heads cut off.How could we possibly think that kids should be given the kinds of rights that are talked about here? The court system would be overloaded within a month with kids suing their parents because they forced them to go to school or kids dying because they refused to have an operation on a failing kidney. Children are just not mature enough to make these decisions. I agree that kids shouldn’t just be picked out of their beds in the middle of the night for no reason. But most kids have been given fair warning that they need to attend school, get off the drugs, quit stealing cars, letting their 3 year old sister play with old hypodermics which they leave sitting around. etc. Most have had a chance to adjust their behavior on their own or work with local services. They have had their day in court (several times).
As such, our debate with The Who is then philosophical and political not moral. How do you even begin to have a discussion with someone who doesn't accept the autonomy of youth. It's useless.
If we instituted a law which required a school counsellor or the childs therapist to sign off on all placements this would go a long way in protecting kids from being placed unnecessarily.
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This cult extends beyond just the parents and the survivors, it extends to the people who work in the industry themselves. They are too emotionally and financially invested to change the philosphical underpinnings that drive their industry; that youth have no autonomy, coercive behavioral modification is an acceptable way to change behavior, and that the market (parents who wish to change their children's behavior) is an acceptable area to exploit for financial gain*.I agree with this in philosophy. As regulation starts to take hold some of the more abusive programs will start to change or go out of business.
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Abuse in residential programs can happen even when those three philosophies aren't engrained in the program protocol, but it sure as hell makes it more likely that abuse will happen when it does.Yes abuse will occur everywhere, I agree, I don’t think we can stop that, but we can continuously work towards making them safer.
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*The troubled teen industry is hardly the only industry that operates like this. Kaplan, the SAT tutoring company essentially does a similar financial exploitation, by aggressively marketing to parents how their children need to get a couple hundred more points on their test. Ultimately, the SAT is a standardized test and a zero-sum game. While being able to hire expensive tutors may be a true indication of how one would fare in college, in the great scheme of things Kaplan (and Princeton Review and all the other ones) adds nothing to society, collects great sums of money from middle & upper class parents, and causes teenagers a great deal of stress and anxiety in the process. But at the very least nobody died from going to Kaplan for tutoring.Many different industries operate on similar principles. It is imperative that any industry continues to grow and find new ways to increase profits each year. Unless a program is subsidised by the government they need to create new marketing strategies each year to survive. If a company stands still and profits stay the same each year it will not survive.
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Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 11:42:37 AM
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This cult extends beyond just the parents and the survivors, it extends to the people who work in the industry themselves. They are too emotionally and financially invested to change the philosphical underpinnings that drive their industry; that youth have no autonomy, coercive behavioral modification is an acceptable way to change behavior, and that the market (parents who wish to change their children's behavior) is an acceptable area to exploit for financial gain*.
Quote from: "TheWho"
QuoteI agree with this in philosophy. As regulation starts to take hold some of the more abusive programs will start to change or go out of business.
Lon Woodbury's latest essay repeats this. Coincidence?Quote from: "TheWho"Many different industries operate on similar principles. It is imperative that any industry continues to grow and find new ways to increase profits each year. Unless a program is subsidised by the government they need to create new marketing strategies each year to survive. If a company stands still and profits stay the same each year it will not survive.
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In order to grow, the industry needs more "troubled" teens and it will invent new diagnoses to scare parents into incarcerating kids. TheWho is saying kids are raw material for his industry's growth and the industry will exploit anyone in order to increase profits. Parents beware of theWho and his business associates.
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 12:58:37 PM
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How could we possibly think that kids should be given the kinds of rights that are talked about here? The court system would be overloaded within a month with kids suing their parents because they forced them to go to school or kids dying because they refused to have an operation on a failing kidney..
First, it's the state that forces kids to go to school, not their parents. At least in New York State, parents can only sign kids out of school when they turn 17, until then parents really have no say in the matter. I would say that in the very few instances that parents knowing place their youth in an abusive programs, teenagers should have the right to sue their parents. They already have the right to report instances of child abuse. Second, in some states children already have the same rights as adults to refuse medical treatment (which can always be overridden with a court order).
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Children are just not mature enough to make these decisions. I agree that kids shouldn’t just be picked out of their beds in the middle of the night for no reason. But most kids have been given fair warning that they need to attend school, get off the drugs, quit stealing cars, letting their 3 year old sister play with old hypodermics which they leave sitting around. etc. Most have had a chance to adjust their behavior on their own or work with local services. They have had their day in court (several times).
All I would argue is that in the case of a placement for psychiatric/educational reasons that placement needs to be reviewed by a third party team of professionals that include a psychiatrist, social worker, educational expert, parent and youth advocate, and that the youth would be granted representation by a guardian ad litem. If the youth has been convicted of a crime in a court of law, and they are presented the option of jail/juvenile detention or a private program as a condition of probation, then that youth has a decision to make, and I would hope that they would make the decision with all the facts made available to them. In both of these instances, it would be the responsibility of the state to furnish transport, on the dime of the family if the placement is voluntary, or on the dime of the state is the placement is involuntary.
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If we instituted a law which required a school counsellor or the childs therapist to sign off on all placements this would go a long way in protecting kids from being placed unnecessarily
A step, but far from good enough. In New York State for their RTF beds (this only makes up about %10 of our statewide capacity), they require a psychiatric, psychological, psychosocial, and an educational evaluation. In addition, they require a recording of what services have been tried before residential placement. Then the five-person third party team reviews the documents, and makes a determination after interviewing the parent and the child.
A parent could easily find a sympathetic school counselor or a handpicked therapist to sign off of the placement, which we know has happened before.
Post by: TheWho on September 12, 2008, 01:19:49 PM
Quote from: "Kids Over Profits."
In order to grow, the industry needs more "troubled" teens and it will invent new diagnoses to scare parents into incarcerating kids. TheWho is saying kids are raw material for his industry's growth and the industry will exploit anyone in order to increase profits. Parents beware of theWho and his business associates.
Like any other industry it will find new ways to increase their profits every year. Some ways of doing this is to increase the cost of the stay, reduce operating expenses, provide or expand services.
I don’t believe your teen industry looks at the kids as raw material or exploits them any more than toysRus, McDonalds, Abercrombie and Fitch, playstation or the local high school football coach does.
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Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 01:32:58 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Kids Over Profits."
In order to grow, the industry needs more "troubled" teens and it will invent new diagnoses to scare parents into incarcerating kids. TheWho is saying kids are raw material for his industry's growth and the industry will exploit anyone in order to increase profits. Parents beware of theWho and his business associates.
Like any other industry it will find new ways to increase their profits every year. Some ways of doing this is to increase the cost of the stay, reduce operating expenses, provide or expand services.
I don’t believe your teen industry looks at the kids as raw material or exploits them any more than toysRus, McDonalds, Abercrombie and Fitch, playstation or the local high school football coach does.
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Ha, Ha, Ha. How can it be my industry when I don't support it in any way? Did you take offense who? Reducing operating expenses will mean hiring untrained staff, increasing the cost will mean parents are receiving the services of unqualified clinicians. That is exploitation Mr. Who. The businesses you mention above are not part of the mental health field. You're comparing kids to hamburgers again and if that is truly your view of children it's no wonder you sent your daughter to a program, if indeed you even have children.
You have been proven to be a liar over and over in the past. Parents beware of theWho and his business associates. They profit from deception.
Post by: TheWho on September 12, 2008, 01:37:05 PM
Quote from: "blombrowsk"
First, it's the state that forces kids to go to school, not their parents. At least in New York State, parents can only sign kids out of school when they turn 17, until then parents really have no say in the matter. I would say that in the very few instances that parents knowing place their youth in an abusive programs, teenagers should have the right to sue their parents. They already have the right to report instances of child abuse. Second, in some states children already have the same rights as adults to refuse medical treatment (which can always be overridden with a court order).I don’t think a parent would knowingly place their child in a situation where they would be abused (of course there is an exception to everything). If the child did end up being abused the parents should be able to sue the program/school. The child should be able to report it and then have the legal system do their job.
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All I would argue is that in the case of a placement for psychiatric/educational reasons that placement needs to be reviewed by a third party team of professionals that include a psychiatrist, social worker, educational expert, parent and youth advocate, and that the youth would be granted representation by a guardian ad litem. If the youth has been convicted of a crime in a court of law, and they are presented the option of jail/juvenile detention or a private program as a condition of probation, then that youth has a decision to make, and I would hope that they would make the decision with all the facts made available to them. In both of these instances, it would be the responsibility of the state to furnish transport, on the dime of the family if the placement is voluntary, or on the dime of the state is the placement is involuntary.This sounds reasonable; I have always agreed to have a (independent) third party sign off, as long as they are readily available.
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A step, but far from good enough. In New York State for their RTF beds (this only makes up about %10 of our statewide capacity), they require a psychiatric, psychological, psychosocial, and an educational evaluation. In addition, they require a recording of what services have been tried before residential placement. Then the five-person third party team reviews the documents, and makes a determination after interviewing the parent and the child.
A parent could easily find a sympathetic school counselor or a handpicked therapist to sign off of the placement, which we know has happened before.
I could also agree to this if the state could get their act together and do the evaluations on a days notice, but my experience tells me that by the time the state gets around to deciding who is going to pay for it, who is going to participate in it, who is qualified and then agree on the results and file the appropriate paperwork the kid would have already aged out of their teen years.
Maybe a state approved therapist who is not handpicked by the parents would suffice.
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Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 01:39:09 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
I believe people lose sight of the fact that people need to earn a living. Doctors make a huge income yet it doesn’t dissuade anyone from entrusting them. The fact that programs are asking for large sums of money is not a result of the industry. The price of each program is set by the parents gullibility and naivetee, not the industry.
Fixed that for ya.
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You shouldn’t try to view programmes as the enemy. Kids become at-Risk for a variety of reasons and the parents (programmees) are desperately trying to help them. We would be helping more kids if we focused on the parents who are not involved in their childrens welfare or success and allowing their kids to continue down a self destructive path.
You shouldn't tell other people how they should or shouldn't view something. It's rude and pointless.
The problem is that these kids have NO DUE PROCESS. If they are incarcerated in one of these places, they have no recourse. If they complain about how they're being treated, it gets worse and they understand very quickly that any dissent or questioning of the program or it's policies will be severely dealt with. Hell, even if parents get a little inquisitive and start poking their noses around too much THEY are dealt with pretty severely...i.e. those precious, few moments of their weekly monitored phone calls with their kids could be cut off. God forbid you have divorced parents and one puts a kid in a program against the others wishes. The non-custodial parent is denied virtually ALL access to the child. The kids have no access to phone or outside sources to even report anything in the first place. And, very often, the 'dx' techniques the programs use leave A LOT to be desired. Rubber stamping any kid just to get them in the door and get those $$$$. Unqualified staff. Do I really need to go on more?
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How could we possibly think that kids should be given the kinds of rights that are talked about here?
Let's just start off with some basic human rights, howz that? Like a proper diagnosis from qualified staff, instead of 'diagnosing' a kid with some arbitrary 'behavioral disorder'. How about access to a phone to be able to speak to parents or LEO or the Dept. of Children and Families....UNCENSORED AND UNMONITORED? How about the right to take a dump without some 'higher phaser' watching you?
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I agree that kids shouldn’t just be picked out of their beds in the middle of the night for no reason. But most kids have been given fair warning that they need to attend school, get off the drugs, quit stealing cars, letting their 3 year old sister play with old hypodermics which they leave sitting around. etc.
Uh huh. You're picking out the most extreme cases. You know FULL WELL that most of these kids are not hardened criminals or hardcore drug addicts. Hell, most are not addicts at all. They're doing hte stuff most normal teens do. Parents get scared, over-react, start doing Google searches for 'help' and end up seeing these bullshit lists of 'warning signs' that program websites plaster all over in an attempt to scare the parents into signing them up. Have you ever seen some of those lists? They're ridiculous!
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Most have had a chance to adjust their behavior on their own or work with local services. They have had their day in court (several times).
And you know this because........................?
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If we instituted a law which required a school counsellor or the childs therapist to sign off on all placements this would go a long way in protecting kids from being placed unnecessarily.
If a child is so out of control that they truly need to be places outside of the home, then it should be with experienced MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS! Not pseudo-therapists who use methods derived from known abusive cults.
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Many different industries operate on similar principles. It is imperative that any industry continues to grow and find new ways to increase profits each year.
This is why you make so many of us physically ill at times. It is NOT imperative that this industry "grow" at all. And increase profits? That's imperative to YOU, but I guarantee it ain't to sane, compassionate people.
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Unless a program is subsidised by the government they need to create new marketing strategies each year to survive. If a company stands still and profits stay the same each year it will not survive.
You are a truly disgusting human being.
Post by: TheWho on September 12, 2008, 02:03:53 PM
Quote from: "Kids Over Profits."
Ha, Ha, Ha. How can it be my industry when I don't support it in any way? Did you take offense who?How can you prove to us you do not support the industry? Even if you don’t work for them you could be supporting them via investments or 401ks etc.
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Reducing operating expenses will mean hiring untrained staff
Or keeping their existing trained staff but put off building the new gymnasium for another year.
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, increasing the cost will mean parents are receiving the services of unqualified clinicians.
No it means instead of writing the school a check for $6,000 a month they write it for $6,250
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That is exploitation Mr. Who.
No it is business and growing the business so that you can better serve the future clients.
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The businesses you mention above are not part of the mental health field. You're comparing kids to hamburgers again and if that is truly your view of children it's no wonder you sent your daughter to a program, if indeed you even have children.
So you feel I view my daughter as a Big Mac and that is why I sent her to a program? That is interesting. You need to open your mind a bit more and consider analogies or review their intent. They are not meant to be literal comparisons.
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You have been proven to be a liar over and over in the past. Parents beware of theWho and his business associates. They profit from deception.
Hmmm. Again, since I don’t agree with your reasoning you view me a liar how immature and closed minded. That was a very strange conversation.
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Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 02:12:09 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
How can you prove to us you do not support the industry? Even if you don’t work for them you could be supporting them via investments or 401ks etc.
Shut the fuck up you pernicious asshole.
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You need to open your mind a bit more and consider analogies or review their intent. They are not meant to be literal comparisons.
You need to quit telling other people what they need to do.
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Hmmm. Again, since I don’t agree with your reasoning you view me a liar how immature and closed minded. That was a very strange conversation.
No, but it's not surprising that in your bizarre little world you'd see it like that.
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 02:13:08 PM
Quote from: "Awake"
Hey Who,
I'm a little new here and I have no idea what the big fuss is over this thread. It is one of the longest threads here. (I couldn't imagine going over the entire content of it.) I mean no offense here, in fact I am just curious. I have noticed a trend and, if I am correct, you have a particular skill in running a conversation in circles. Is this all a game? I don't know if you don't want to expose this about yourself but maybe you just want to be found out. If it is true I applaude you! It is truly brilliant. An expose on the nature of man. Thank you.
LOL. This is too funny. they hit the nail on the head and in no time you have them all playing with you again. Only the real game is you successfully make these guys look like a bunch of dumbasses. And im sure they are going to keep coming back for more. Maybe your proffession should be as a sheep herder! I wish i could give you a high five. Serious this cracks me up. I think im goin to have to join in the fun. I think well make a great team. i bet our viewpoints are right in line with each other. Ba-a-a-a-a!
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 02:16:45 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 02:25:07 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 02:29:55 PM
Post by: TheWho on September 12, 2008, 02:30:13 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
You shouldn't tell other people how they should or shouldn't view something. It's rude and pointless.Lets place that on the shingle as everyone enters, I will conform if others do.
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The problem is that these kids have NO DUE PROCESS. If they are incarcerated in one of these places, they have no recourse. If they complain about how they're being treated, it gets worse and they understand very quickly that any dissent or questioning of the program or it's policies will be severely dealt with. Hell, even if parents get a little inquisitive and start poking their noses around too much THEY are dealt with pretty severely...i.e. those precious, few moments of their weekly monitored phone calls with their kids could be cut off. God forbid you have divorced parents and one puts a kid in a program against the others wishes. The non-custodial parent is denied virtually ALL access to the child. The kids have no access to phone or outside sources to even report anything in the first place. And, very often, the 'dx' techniques the programs use leave A LOT to be desired. Rubber stamping any kid just to get them in the door and get those $$$$. Unqualified staff. Do I really need to go on more?
I am just as frustrated as you are. Some solutions are regulation, giving children access to a hot line, providing the kids with unmonitored phone calls to their parents.
Having a third party sign off on all placements prior to a program/school accepting them.
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Let's just start off with some basic human rights, howz that? Like a proper diagnosis from qualified staff, instead of 'diagnosing' a kid with some arbitrary 'behavioral disorder'. How about access to a phone to be able to speak to parents or LEO or the Dept. of Children and Families....UNCENSORED AND UNMONITORED? How about the right to take a dump without some 'higher phaser' watching you?
Way ahead of you, keep going, we agree so far.
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Uh huh. You're picking out the most extreme cases. You know FULL WELL that most of these kids are not hardened criminals or hardcore drug addicts. Hell, most are not addicts at all. They're doing hte stuff most normal teens do. Parents get scared, over-react, start doing Google searches for 'help' and end up seeing these bullshit lists of 'warning signs' that program websites plaster all over in an attempt to scare the parents into signing them up. Have you ever seen some of those lists? They're ridiculous!
You are picking the extreme cases also. Parents just don’t send their kids away based on a list they read about on the web. The parents are reading it because they already have a problem with their child who is at-risk. Parents don’t send their kids away for help at $6,000 a month for talking back to them or getting a tattoo (again, I am sure there are exceptions). Having a third party sign off will help prevent these types of placements from happening.
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And you know this because........................?
Just talk to a few of the kids, they were not heading for Harvard on a full scholarship prior to being placed, they know they were screwing up and many had plenty of warning and opportunities to get back on track.
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This is why you make so many of us physically ill at times. It is NOT imperative that this industry "grow" at all. And increase profits? That's imperative to YOU, but I guarantee it ain't to sane, compassionate people.
No it is not imperative to me because I am not an investor. The investors drive the industries profit stategy. If profits do not increase every year then the major investors will pull their money. Hospitals are the same way, like any industry. If the fund that your 401k is in doesn’t do well they will move the money out and into something more profitable. If too much money is pulled out then the industry could/would collapse.
So you see it is important that the industry keep growing. Pick any company at random and look at their 5 year plan. I guarantee it includes growth and a plan to grow the company. Doesn’t mean they are unethical (doesn’t mean they are not either).
How many of the readers here will except not getting a raise over the next 10 years, zero growth? I would think you would pull out fairly quick and find another source of income. We all expect to do better next year then we are this year. Doesnt make you evil or unethical.
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You are a truly disgusting human being.You are saying that to yourself, you just don’t realize it. But so it goes, I guess. Someday you may understand that you are fighting the wrong people.
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Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 02:36:05 PM
Ba-a-a-a!
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 02:44:39 PM
Here sheep!
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 02:45:43 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Guest"You shouldn't tell other people how they should or shouldn't view something. It's rude and pointless.
Lets place that on the shingle as everyone enters, I will conform if others do.
I don't do it and I'm asking YOU not to. Other people might do it and I don't like it either. I'm asking YOU not to do it. K?
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Guest"The problem is that these kids have NO DUE PROCESS. If they are incarcerated in one of these places, they have no recourse. If they complain about how they're being treated, it gets worse and they understand very quickly that any dissent or questioning of the program or it's policies will be severely dealt with. Hell, even if parents get a little inquisitive and start poking their noses around too much THEY are dealt with pretty severely...i.e. those precious, few moments of their weekly monitored phone calls with their kids could be cut off. God forbid you have divorced parents and one puts a kid in a program against the others wishes. The non-custodial parent is denied virtually ALL access to the child. The kids have no access to phone or outside sources to even report anything in the first place. And, very often, the 'dx' techniques the programs use leave A LOT to be desired. Rubber stamping any kid just to get them in the door and get those $$$$. Unqualified staff. Do I really need to go on more?QuoteI am just as frustrated as you are. Some solutions are regulation, giving children access to a hot line, providing the kids with unmonitored phone calls to their parents.
Having a third party sign off on all placements prior to a program/school accepting them.
If you're just as frustrated, why would you be arguing (as you have many, many times here) FOR censoring and monitoring calls between parent and child? Why are you constantly here advocating FOR programs even when we've proven over and over that a particular one DOES employ unqualified staff? You usually disregard it as "irrelevant" to the circumstances.
Quote from: "TheWho"
Let's just start off with some basic human rights, howz that? Like a proper diagnosis from qualified staff, instead of 'diagnosing' a kid with some arbitrary 'behavioral disorder'. How about access to a phone to be able to speak to parents or LEO or the Dept. of Children and Families....UNCENSORED AND UNMONITORED? How about the right to take a dump without some 'higher phaser' watching you?
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Way ahead of you, keep going, we agree so far.
If you're just as frustrated, why would you be arguing (as you have many, many times here) FOR censoring and monitoring calls between parent and child? Why are you constantly here advocating FOR programs even when we've proven over and over that a particular one DOES employ unqualified staff? You usually disregard it as "irrelevant" to the circumstances.
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You are picking the extreme cases also. Parents just don’t send their kids away based on a list they read about on the web. The parents are reading it because they already have a problem with their child who is at-risk. Parents don’t send their kids away for help at $6,000 a month for talking back to them or getting a tattoo (again, I am sure there are exceptions). Having a third party sign off will help prevent these types of placements from happening.
No, I'm pointing out that there is a problem with the diagnostic methods used in most programs. And yes, many many parents send their kids off for talking back or getting a tattoo. I've been IN programs with kids who have NO BUSINESS being in there, but the parents freaked out at finding a joint and shipped them off. Happens every day.
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Just talk to a few of the kids, they were not heading for Harvard on a full scholarship prior to being placed, they know they were screwing up and many had plenty of warning and opportunities to get back on track.
Well, not all of us base our value as a person on whether or not we graduated from an ivy league school. But that does seem to be very important to a lot of program parents. The kids aren't growing up how the parents would like them to and instead of respecting that the child is an individual, with thoughts and values of their own.....they ship them off for "re-education".
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No it is not imperative to me because I am not an investor. The investors drive the industries profit stategy. If profits do not increase every year then the major investors will pull their money. Hospitals are the same way, like any industry. If the fund that your 401k is in doesn’t do well they will move the money out and into something more profitable. If too much money is pulled out then the industry could/would collapse.
I could only hope.
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So you see it is important that the industry keep growing.
No, I don't see. Not at all.
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You are a truly disgusting human being.
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You are saying that to yourself, you just don’t realize it. But so it goes, I guess. Someday you may understand that you are fighting the wrong people.
Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!! Spoken like the true washed soul that you are.
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 02:47:45 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 02:49:19 PM
We should waterboard our children!
B-a-a-a-a-a-a! hee hee. Does your stomach hrt from laughing as much as mine who?
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 02:54:10 PM
Its completely obvious we need these programs because kids are inherently bad until they turn 18. Programs beat the bad out of kids before it becomes a lifelong disease.
Here sheep! high five Who!
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 03:00:01 PM
Quote from: "Awake"
Hey Who,
I'm a little new here and I have no idea what the big fuss is over this thread. It is one of the longest threads here. (I couldn't imagine going over the entire content of it.) I mean no offense here, in fact I am just curious. I have noticed a trend and, if I am correct, you have a particular skill in running a conversation in circles. Is this all a game? I don't know if you don't want to expose this about yourself but maybe you just want to be found out. If it is true I applaude you! It is truly brilliant. An expose on the nature of man. Thank you.
What idiots huh who.
Sleep depravation has astounding results in changing the behavior of children for the better.
Here sheep! high five Who
Post by: TheWho on September 12, 2008, 03:04:24 PM
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If you're just as frustrated, why would you be arguing (as you have many, many times here) FOR censoring and monitoring calls between parent and child? Why are you constantly here advocating FOR programs even when we've proven over and over that a particular one DOES employ unqualified staff? You usually disregard it as "irrelevant" to the circumstances.I have never advocated censoring or monitoring of calls. I do not think all programs are good. If a staff member abused a child I don’t conclude that all staff members are abusers and I don’t necessarily feel the program is abusive because of the actions of an employee.
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No, I'm pointing out that there is a problem with the diagnostic methods used in most programs. And yes, many many parents send their kids off for talking back or getting a tattoo. I've been IN programs with kids who have NO BUSINESS being in there, but the parents freaked out at finding a joint and shipped them off. Happens every day.This is why I believe getting a third party to sign off on each decision , this will help to eliminate these types of placements.
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Well, not all of us base our value as a person on whether or not we graduated from an ivy league school. But that does seem to be very important to a lot of program parents. The kids aren't growing up how the parents would like them to and instead of respecting that the child is an individual, with thoughts and values of their own.....they ship them off for "re-education".
The kids are typically in an at-risk situation, not going to school, heading down a destructive path.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 03:05:04 PM
Answer the question please.
Post by: TheWho on September 12, 2008, 03:15:54 PM
Quote from: "Who lies."
Who why are you still posting on Fornits when you gave your word you would stop?
Answer the question please.
This is not something I am proud of nor like to discuss.
I agreed to stop posting based on certain events/circumstances which I am not able to speak openly here. I realized, after the fact,that false information was provided as a catalyst to precipitate my leaving.
I returned at great risk to my personal credability as a regular poster here on fornits, but felt it was the right thing to do in light of the heavily one-sided discussions.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 03:22:07 PM
Quote from: "Whohenchman#1"
Quote from: "Awake"Hey Who,
I'm a little new here and I have no idea what the big fuss is over this thread. It is one of the longest threads here. (I couldn't imagine going over the entire content of it.) I mean no offense here, in fact I am just curious. I have noticed a trend and, if I am correct, you have a particular skill in running a conversation in circles. Is this all a game? I don't know if you don't want to expose this about yourself but maybe you just want to be found out. If it is true I applaude you! It is truly brilliant. An expose on the nature of man. Thank you.
What idiots huh who.
Sleep depravation has astounding results in changing the behavior of children for the better.
Here sheep! high five Who
Wow. You are good at this game who. I'm gonna start taking notes. Hey buddy lets team up.
A teenager who smokes even one cigarrette is guaranteed to die of hard drug use without these programs!
High five who!
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 03:26:23 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Who lies."Who why are you still posting on Fornits when you gave your word you would stop?
Answer the question please.
This is not something I am proud of nor like to discuss.
I agreed to stop posting based on certain events/circumstances which I am not able to speak openly here. I realized, after the fact,that false information was provided as a catalyst to precipitate my leaving.
I returned at great risk to my personal credability as a regular poster here on fornits, but felt it was the right thing to do in light of the heavily one-sided discussions.
...
We felt your absence was one of the brightest and most productive periods since you appeared on Fornits. We would like to know more about these events/circumstances which led to you giving your word to leave this forum. Who can enlighten us since you are too ashamed to discuss it?
Your credibility is non existent and you lied by going back on your word. Nothing you say can be trusted. You admit to being deceitful.
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 03:31:34 PM
Quote from: "Whohenchman#1"
Yknow theres plenty of room for more henchman. Ya'll should try it. Its kinda fun.
Its completely obvious we need these programs because kids are inherently bad until they turn 18. Programs beat the bad out of kids before it becomes a lifelong disease.
Here sheep! high five Who!
Yknow this is a pretty fun game you created here who. You should patent it friend.
It is worth it to lose your retirement fund to send your child to a program. It is the only way you will ever have a chance to have a relationship with your kid. If they don't complete a program they will hate you and then die horribly!
My sides hurt who. High five buddy. Here sheep! ba-a-a-!
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 04:58:08 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
I have never advocated censoring or monitoring of calls. I do not think all programs are good. If a staff member abused a child I don’t conclude that all staff members are abusers and I don’t necessarily feel the program is abusive because of the actions of an employee.
You may not have specifically "advocated" for it, but you most certainly have defended the tactic numerous times. And no, I'm not going to dig through the threads to find them. You've done it so much that anyone who has been around for even a short while has seen it.
Quote
Well, not all of us base our value as a person on whether or not we graduated from an ivy league school. But that does seem to be very important to a lot of program parents. The kids aren't growing up how the parents would like them to and instead of respecting that the child is an individual, with thoughts and values of their own.....they ship them off for "re-education".
Quote from: "TheWho"
The kids are typically in an at-risk situation, not going to school, heading down a destructive path.
Again......not all of us base our value as a person on whether or not we graduated from an ivy league school. But that does seem to be very important to a lot of program parents. The kids aren't growing up how the parents would like them to and instead of respecting that the child is an individual, with thoughts and values of their own.....they ship them off for "re-education".
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 05:38:08 PM
It is imperative for a child to be cut off from any contact with family members so they can grow. Coddled children wind up as prostitutes in almost every situation!
Come and get it sheep! Ba-a-a-a!
High five Who!
Post by: TheWho on September 12, 2008, 06:12:38 PM
Quote from: "Liar liar"
I have never advocated censoring or monitoring of calls. I do not think all programs are good. If a staff member abused a child I don’t conclude that all staff members are abusers and I don’t necessarily feel the program is abusive because of the actions of an employee.
For your own benefit you should go back and clarify it in your own mind. I have never advocated censorship or monitoring of phone calls. There were discussions about my experience at ASR where my daughter was allowed to call me and her calls were unmonitored. We talked about how she was not allowed to call anyone outside the family or make and receive calls from friends. This is where you may have gotten confused.
I understood and agreed with the policy that kids should not be allowed to receive letters or packages from all friends unless they were screened first for contraband. The people that the child contacts should also be controlled.
Quote
Again......not all of us base our value as a person on whether or not we graduated from an ivy league school. But that does seem to be very important to a lot of program parents. The kids aren't growing up how the parents would like them to and instead of respecting that the child is an individual, with thoughts and values of their own.....they ship them off for "re-education".
Well it seems we are closing the gap little by little. I agree with you that kids should not be sent away to change from one healthy life style to another healthy life style just because the parents feel the kid needs a change. This is another area which would benefit from an independent third party from signing off on all placements.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 06:21:06 PM
Quote from: "Whohenchman#1"
Who this is amazing! You are such an accomplished game player you could say anything and they'll keep coming back. How is it that no one realizes this is just a game to get attention?!
It is imperative for a child to be cut off from any contact with family members so they can grow. Coddled children wind up as prostitutes in almost every situation!
Come and get it sheep! Ba-a-a-a!
High five Who!
Game to get attention?? Pot, meet kettle.
You've posted virtually the exact same thing about, what.......4 or 5 times now? We heard you sweetheart. We heard you.
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 06:32:50 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
For your own benefit you should go back and clarify it in your own mind. I have never advocated censorship or monitoring of phone calls. There were discussions about my experience at ASR where my daughter was allowed to call me and her calls were unmonitored. We talked about how she was not allowed to call anyone outside the family or make and receive calls from friends. This is where you may have gotten confused.
I understood and agreed with the policy that kids should not be allowed to receive letters or packages from all friends unless they were screened first for contraband. The people that the child contacts should also be controlled.
You're lying. Outright lying. When I have the time, in the next few days, I will find one of the times when you've defended monitoring and censoring of kids calls. Even to family members. Even to parents. Paraphrasing here, but this is essentially what you said..."kids may want to talk about inappropriate things or manipulate the parents and that is not the time or place for it and the staff needs to be able to have control over the conversation so it doesn't deteriorate into an argument"
Quote
Again......not all of us base our value as a person on whether or not we graduated from an ivy league school. But that does seem to be very important to a lot of program parents. The kids aren't growing up how the parents would like them to and instead of respecting that the child is an individual, with thoughts and values of their own.....they ship them off for "re-education".
Quote
Well it seems we are closing the gap little by little.
Fuck you, you condescending prick.
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 06:36:23 PM
Quote from: "Whohenchman#1"
Who this is amazing! You are such an accomplished game player you could say anything and they'll keep coming back. How is it that no one realizes this is just a game to get attention?!
It is imperative for a child to be cut off from any contact with family members so they can grow. Coddled children wind up as prostitutes in almost every situation!
Come and get it sheep! Ba-a-a-a!
High five Who!
Yanno....I believe this to a certain extent. Who absolutely gets a kick out of all this. But then again, he's a complete asshole and I would expect that he would get satisfaction out off all this. You? Well, I guess the fact that YOU'RE enjoying it (cuz you aint' a program supporter) says something too now, doesn't it?
Post by: TheWho on September 12, 2008, 06:50:00 PM
Quote from: "iajn;eia"
You're lying. Outright lying. When I have the time, in the next few days, I will find one of the times when you've defended monitoring and censoring of kids calls. Even to family members. Even to parents. Paraphrasing here, but this is essentially what you said..."kids may want to talk about inappropriate things or manipulate the parents and that is not the time or place for it and the staff needs to be able to have control over the conversation so it doesn't deteriorate into an argument"
I would have never said that. Do a search using the key words..Manipulate....conversation.. Deteriorate... censoring etc. If you like and see what you come up with. All my (our) conversations are in the history file for everyone to view. I guarantee I never advocated censoring the kids calls so they cant say inappropriate things or manipulation.
Quote
Fuck you, you condescending prick.
I was agreeing with you! There was no condescending tone to it. Go back and read it again. I believe your concern could be solved or avoided by having a third party sign off on the placement. That eliminates any parent from just sending any kid to a program for any reason they like.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 06:58:42 PM
When we should trust the ocean
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2008, 10:14:28 PM
Quote from: "ain;awio"
Quote from: "Whohenchman#1"Who this is amazing! You are such an accomplished game player you could say anything and they'll keep coming back. How is it that no one realizes this is just a game to get attention?!
It is imperative for a child to be cut off from any contact with family members so they can grow. Coddled children wind up as prostitutes in almost every situation!
Come and get it sheep! Ba-a-a-a!
High five Who!
Yanno....I believe this to a certain extent. Who absolutely gets a kick out of all this. But then again, he's a complete asshole and I would expect that he would get satisfaction out off all this. You? Well, I guess the fact that YOU'RE enjoying it (cuz you aint' a program supporter) says something too now, doesn't it?
Alright alright. I'm done with these shenanigans. Obviously I was just trying to blatantly point out the process this Who guy is going through to keep people coming back. My opinion is that people give this guy too much credit here. I'm sure most have come to the conclusion he/she is profiting off of it, but I suspect there is a more personal reason he/she is here. Like you said, Who gets a kick out of it. But it would not surprise me if Who is really just a lonely person who enjoys getting the attention even if it is negative rather than not getting any at all. I was upfront about the fact that i was just playing his game, however Who would never admit that and it may be possible he doesn't even know he's doing it. As long as he's been going on like this it is likely he has developed a pathology for his ways and doesn't even know that he is lying. I do believe there is some value for those who are trying to hone their debate skills over programs, but I see alot of people getting more and more angry talking with him. He doesn't deserve anger, he deserves pity.
Well ill put my character to bed. Sorry for acting like an annoying asshole. It was sort of supposed to be an interpretation of what is going on in Who's subconscious, but that really wouldn't be fair. I don't think Who is an asshole, just mentaly ill.
Post by: psy on September 12, 2008, 11:10:04 PM
Quote from: "blombrowsk"
I have to agree with Mike on this one. The only reason I'm wasting my time is that this is a little something like a sparring match, preparation for the real thing.
Now that's very true. He can teach you to debate against industry clowns very well, and help you get all your counter-arguments down pat. Just don't let him tire you out.
Post by: psy on September 12, 2008, 11:17:39 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Who lies."Who why are you still posting on Fornits when you gave your word you would stop?
Answer the question please.
This is not something I am proud of nor like to discuss.
I agreed to stop posting based on certain events/circumstances which I am not able to speak openly here. I realized, after the fact,that false information was provided as a catalyst to precipitate my leaving.
What a crock. What prevents you from being able to speak openly about the events? Come on. You agreed plain and simple to leave. Ginger asked you to. You swore you would, scouts honor... then you came back. What is so complicated about that?
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on September 13, 2008, 02:04:51 AM
2."I realized, after the fact,that false information was provided as a catalyst to precipitate my leaving".
If a counter-intelligence mole set him up and had his ass over a barrel he'd been gone for much longer than 3 months.
What did he do work out a tri-fecta deal with Lex Luthor and the Penguin to resolve things and expedite his return?
3. "I returned at great risk to my personal credability as a regular poster here on fornits, but felt it was the right thing to do in light of the heavily one-sided discussions".
- You've got the personality and credibility of a lifetime NAMBLA member.
- Regular poster on Fornits?
You're presence here is the equivalent of a dipshit that shows up to the party early, uninvited, barfs in the punch bowl, fails miserably with a date rape attempt and for a caper shits his pants and passes out in the laundry room with his pants around his ankles. The same dude, who, the next day brags he was at the most rockin party the night before, got laid by tons of hot chicks and was personally invited by Brittney Spears manager to hang out at her video shoot in Brazil for christmas.
A fictional character is a harmless, annoying, douchebag ...
I hope this is the case...
otherwise I fear for the safety of those who live in close proximity to him.
Post by: Froderik on September 13, 2008, 10:59:10 AM
Quote from: "dishdutyfugitive"
What did he do work out a tri-fecta deal with Lex Luthor and the Penguin to resolve things and expedite his return?:D
Post by: TheWho on September 13, 2008, 02:25:08 PM
Quote from: "dishdutyfugitive"
1. When's the last time you heard anyone say "scouts honor"?
2."I realized, after the fact,that false information was provided as a catalyst to precipitate my leaving".
If a counter-intelligence mole set him up and had his ass over a barrel he'd been gone for much longer than 3 months.
What did he do work out a tri-fecta deal with Lex Luthor and the Penguin to resolve things and expedite his return?
3. "I returned at great risk to my personal credability as a regular poster here on fornits, but felt it was the right thing to do in light of the heavily one-sided discussions".
- You've got the personality and credibility of a lifetime NAMBLA member.
- Regular poster on Fornits?
You're presence here is the equivalent of a dipshit that shows up to the party early, uninvited, barfs in the punch bowl, fails miserably with a date rape attempt and for a caper shits his pants and passes out in the laundry room with his pants around his ankles. The same dude, who, the next day brags he was at the most rockin party the night before, got laid by tons of hot chicks and was personally invited by Brittney Spears manager to hang out at her video shoot in Brazil for christmas.
A fictional character is a harmless, annoying, douchebag ...
I hope this is the case...
otherwise I fear for the safety of those who live in close proximity to him.
Wow, Dish, that is harsh!!!! I like the lex Luther reference, though.
Post by: TheWho on September 13, 2008, 04:46:42 PM
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 13, 2008, 05:36:46 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
This confirms my suspicion that everyone hates me just because I am paranoid.
We resent the fact that you dismiss a survivor's story as musings from disgruntled clients, but wholly accept the washed who swear that "the program" (whichever one......they're basically interchangable regarding their methodologies) saved their lives. Just like I did some 20 years ago.
We deeply resent that you blatantly twist things, derail and deflect discussions away from the actual facts and in favor of your bullshit 'stats' that you totally pull directly out of your ass.
We resent the fact that when you are presented with solid evidence, you either completely ignore it and change the subject, you move the goalposts of the debate, slant and skew your positions to seem as though you've agreed with some proven fact (by us) all along.
We resent that you sit on your high horse, getting your rocks off on mocking people and being the pompous ass that you continually show yourself to be with complete disdain and disregard for what PTSD ridden survivors of your precious program (Aspen Ed and the rest) have been put through all in the name of bogus "treatment".
We resent that you shift your positions to fit the debate du jour, or the swing of the pendulum.
We (and I would strongly suspect your daughter does more than us) resent your exploitation of your family situation for the benefit of Aspen.
Lastly, we resent your outright lies and total distortion of facts, omission of facts, disregarding of facts and general mis-information.
So, in closing...................................
Kindly fuck off.
Post by: TheWho on September 13, 2008, 06:12:52 PM
We deeply resent that you blatantly twist things, derail and deflect discussions away from the actual facts and ignore statistics that you hate to accept but cannot shake their accuracy.
We resent the fact that when you are presented with solid evidence, you either completely ignore it and change the subject, you move the goalposts of the debate and toss the evidence aside even though it was written by a Pulitzer prized author and studies from accredited sources.
We resent that you sit on your high horse, getting your rocks off on mocking parents, staff, people you don’t even know and assuming everyone that would dare disagree with you must be paid by the industry.
We resent that instead of debating someone you try to win via name calling and foul language. Twisting words and facts.
We resent that you use your personal experience as a benchmark and try to convince parents that the thousands that have gone thru after you had a bad experience also, thereby trying to deny their children the help they may need.
We resent the fact that you leave out anything positive about programs and only report the negative side.
Lastly, we resent your outright lies and total distortion of facts, omission of facts, disregarding of facts and general mis-information.
So, in closing...................................
I would like to be clear that I'm not being rude. You're just insignificant.
Post by: Anonymous on September 13, 2008, 06:16:50 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
We resent the fact that you dismiss a parents story as musings from disgruntled clients, but wholly accept the washed who swear that "the program" are all faulty and abusive.
We deeply resent that you blatantly twist things, derail and deflect discussions away from the actual facts and ignore statistics that you hate to accept but cannot shake their accuracy.
We resent the fact that when you are presented with solid evidence, you either completely ignore it and change the subject, you move the goalposts of the debate and toss the evidence aside even though it was written by a Pulitzer prized author and studies from accredited sources.
We resent that you sit on your high horse, getting your rocks off on mocking parents, staff, people you don’t even know and assuming everyone that would dare disagree with you must be paid by the industry.
We resent that instead of debating someone you try to win via name calling and foul language. Twisting words and facts.
We resent that you use your personal experience as a benchmark and try to convince parents that the thousands that have gone thru after you had a bad experience also, thereby trying to deny their children the help they may need.
We resent the fact that you leave out anything positive about programs and only report the negative side.
Lastly, we resent your outright lies and total distortion of facts, omission of facts, disregarding of facts and general mis-information.
So, in closing...................................
I would like to be clear that I'm not being rude. You're just insignificant.
So many resentments...your bitterness is showing. :sue:
Post by: TheWho on September 13, 2008, 06:43:19 PM
Quote from: "Bitter Parent"
So many resentments...your bitterness is showing. :sue:
It sort of helps to turn it around a bit, doesnt it. Sometimes seeing the flip side allows some to see how onesided they view the world.
Post by: Anonymous on September 13, 2008, 06:47:56 PM
Quote from: "Bitter Parent"
So many resentments...your bitterness is showing. :sue:
I'm sure it is. Is there a problem with that?
I am incredibly bitter that this shit is still tolerated.
I'm incredibly bitter that kids keep dying in these places and everyone seems to excuse it in some form or another.
I'm bitter that kids are still being held hostage at the whim of albeit well-intentioned, but wrongly frightened parents.
I'm bitter that the people and places that get closed down for abuse simply re-open under another name.
I'm bitter that parents still feel that there's not a problem with sending your children off to either unDER or UNqualified persons that are in charge of their emotional well-being, with no system of checks and balances....not touchstone with reality, rubber stamping doctors and general shenanigans in routing around the measly regulations that are in place, let alone bring on new ones.
Any more questions?
Post by: Anonymous on September 13, 2008, 06:55:05 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
We deeply resent that you blatantly twist things, derail and deflect discussions away from the actual facts and ignore statistics that you hate to accept but cannot shake their accuracy.
Citation needed. Statistics that you're referring to that we haven't accepted.
We've provided you with peer reviewed studies. Quite a few recently. Care to return the favor?
Post by: Anonymous on September 13, 2008, 06:56:50 PM
Quote from: "And...........??"
Quote from: "Bitter Parent"
So many resentments...your bitterness is showing. :sue:
I'm sure it is. Is there a problem with that?
I am incredibly bitter that this shit is still tolerated.
I'm incredibly bitter that kids keep dying in these places and everyone seems to excuse it in some form or another.
I'm bitter that kids are still being held hostage at the whim of albeit well-intentioned, but wrongly frightened parents.
I'm bitter that the people and places that get closed down for abuse simply re-open under another name.
I'm bitter that parents still feel that there's not a problem with sending your children off to either unDER or UNqualified persons that are in charge of their emotional well-being, with no system of checks and balances....not touchstone with reality, rubber stamping doctors and general shenanigans in routing around the measly regulations that are in place, let alone bring on new ones.
Any more questions?
Think I grabbed the wrong quote. Sentiment still stands.
Post by: Anonymous on September 13, 2008, 06:58:54 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Bitter Parent"
So many resentments...your bitterness is showing. :sue:
It sort of helps to turn it around a bit, doesnt it. Sometimes seeing the flip side allows some to see how onesided they view the world.
Being bitter towards an industry that abuses you, brainwashes you, then throws you out on the street - all the while making a nice tidy profit - seems quite normal to me.
Being bitter towards the people who are bitter towards an industry who did these evil acts, because they post on a message board specifically of this purpose - strikes me as not so normal.
Not all woman are raped. But I don't spend all my time finding rape survivor message boards, then stating this fact over and over. But that's exactly what TheWho does, it's sick really.
Post by: TheWho on September 13, 2008, 06:59:33 PM
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Anonymous on September 13, 2008, 07:08:34 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 13, 2008, 07:38:55 PM
Quote
During 2005 alone, 33 states reported 1,619 staff members involved in incidents of abuse in residential programs, according to the National Child Abuse and Neglect Data System (NCANDS).
That's just one year!
38 page report on abuse and deaths in teen programs . it's a big file so it might take a minute to load.
http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO-08-146T (http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO-08-146T)
Post by: RobertBruce on September 13, 2008, 07:41:08 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 13, 2008, 07:46:43 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Cindy....................................
Please stop. Right now. I agree with the majority of your sentiments, but you really don't help with this shit.
Post by: Froderik on September 13, 2008, 08:55:20 PM
Quote from: "Nooooooooooooooo!!!!"
Don't listen to this anon, RB....keep posting!! :DQuote from: "RobertBruce"Cindy....................................
Please stop. Right now. I agree with the majority of your sentiments, but you really don't help with this shit.
Post by: TheWho on September 13, 2008, 09:03:55 PM
Quote
During 2005 alone, 33 states reported 1,619 staff members involved in incidents of abuse in residential programs, according to the National Child Abuse and Neglect Data System (NCANDS).
I wouldnt post them here. You wont get any sympathy. People dont care how many staff members are abused.
Post by: Froderik on September 13, 2008, 09:09:47 PM
Quote from: "Nooooooooooooooo!!!!"
Who are you to tell someone not to post?Quote from: "RobertBruce"Cindy....................................
Please stop. Right now. I agree with the majority of your sentiments, but you really don't help with this shit.
Also, how do you, in contrast with RobertBruce "help with this shit"?
We don't even know who you are!
Post by: TheWho on September 13, 2008, 10:13:01 PM
Quote from: "Froderik"
The robertbruce guy is a troll who likes to incite people. He does not really say anything meaningful. It is better that he keep going. He and the who go at it for hours.Quote from: "Nooooooooooooooo!!!!"Who are you to tell someone not to post?Quote from: "RobertBruce"Cindy....................................
Please stop. Right now. I agree with the majority of your sentiments, but you really don't help with this shit.
Also, how do you, in contrast with RobertBruce "help with this shit"?
We don't even know who you are!
Post by: RobertBruce on September 13, 2008, 10:49:16 PM
Post by: Froderik on September 14, 2008, 12:05:51 AM
Quote from: "guest"
The robertbruce guy is a troll who likes to incite people. He does not really say anything meaningful. It is better that he keep going. He and the who go at it for hours.Fuck that... plenty of people 'go at it for hours' with TheWho...what makes you or anyone else any better than RB?
Post by: TheWho on September 14, 2008, 08:53:03 AM
Quote from: "TheWho"
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
3,000 kids die every year in public schools? Is this true?
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2008, 10:00:19 AM
Quote from: "Froderik"
Quote from: "Nooooooooooooooo!!!!"Who are you to tell someone not to post?Quote from: "RobertBruce"Cindy....................................
Please stop. Right now. I agree with the majority of your sentiments, but you really don't help with this shit.
Also, how do you, in contrast with RobertBruce "help with this shit"?
We don't even know who you are!
I didn't tell him not to post. I asked him not to. I can't stand the *Cindy* posts, so I asked him to stop. Christ, it's not like I have any actual control over whether or not he can post. Settle down.
I didn't claim that I helped. If I don't have anything to contribute other than childish remarks, I try to keep my mouth shut. I'm not always successful, but I try.
Post by: Froderik on September 14, 2008, 10:25:13 AM
Quote from: "ajnvjn"
I didn't tell him not to post. I asked him not to. I can't stand the *Cindy* posts, so I asked him to stop. Christ, it's not like I have any actual control over whether or not he can post. Settle down.Alright then, sorry to jump down your throat; witnessing the same old tiresome debates can get old to me, too.
I didn't claim that I helped. If I don't have anything to contribute other than childish remarks, I try to keep my mouth shut. I'm not always successful, but I try.
Post by: TheWho on September 14, 2008, 11:41:46 AM
Quote
3,000 kids die every year in public schools? Is this true?
Yes, its almost 60 kids a week die in our public school system. I would not suggest we all run out and start placing our kids in TBS’s based on this information. We need to realize that some programs are safer than others. These statistics are just a piece of the information we all need to know.
Kids in wilderness are more prone to things like insect bites, falling accidents, infection and are not in general proximity to medical help etc.. But they are not in close proximity to drugs or people that could harm them either … which one offsets the other? Each situation is different so all the options need to be weighed prior to making any decisions.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2008, 11:51:07 AM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quotenot in close proximity to drugs or people that could harm them either.
You would think, right? I haven't heard of many teachers in public school restraining a student until they were dead.
Year, Child's Name, Program and Cause of Death
1990 Michelle Sutton - Summit Quest (Closed) - Dehydration
1990 Kristen Chase - Challenger (Closed) - Hyperthermia
1994 Aaron Bacon - North Star Expeditions (Closed) - *Abuse/Medical Neglect*
2000 William "Eddie" Lee - Obsidian Trails (Still Open) - *Improper Restraint*
2001 Ryan Lewis - Alldrege Academy (Still Open Renamed The Ayne Institute) - Suicide
2002 Charles "Chase" Moody - On Track (Closed) -*Improper Restraint*
2002 Katherine "Katie" Lank - Red Rock Academy (Closed) - Head Trauma
2002 *Erica Harvey - Catherine Freer Wilderness (Still Open) - Hyperthermia
2002 Ian August - Skyline Journey (Still Open Renamed Distant Drums) - Hyperthermia
2003 Corey Baines - Catherine Freer Wilderness (Still Open) - Head Trauma
source
http://teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/INMEMORIAM.html (http://teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/INMEMORIAM.html)
Post by: TheWho on September 14, 2008, 12:10:45 PM
Quote
You would think, right? I haven't heard of many teachers in public school restraining a student until they were dead.
I think if we listed all the names of the kids who died in public schools since 1990 we would overload the site (close to 54,000 kids based on todays rates vs 10 children in Residential Treatment). Kids in our public school system were murdered, raped by their teachers, raped by class mates, forced to run laps until their heart stopped, shot, committed suicide, shot by other class mates, thrown out windows, ridiculed to the point of suicide, died of drug overdoses...... etc. (The 54,000 does not include all the kids who died of drug overdoses, neglect, accidents, accidental deaths etc. just murders and suicide)
We will all continue to try to create environments that are safe for our kids, but the difficult part is predicting/ controlling the human element. We all know that Public school teachers do not have the training to detect these kids problems before it is too late for them and with the budget cuts the teacher/student ratio is growing very quickly.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2008, 12:25:00 PM
Take this video for example
http://www.heal-online.org/Takedown.mpg (http://www.heal-online.org/Takedown.mpg)
Yes, you heard correctly, that was "I can make it hurt".
These staff members knew full well there was a TV crew filming them. Imagine what happens when the camera's are off.
Do parents really want to spend thousands of dollars a month to have their child treated in this way? Really?
Like you said, there will always be evil people who rape and hurt children no matter where they are. The difference is programs as institutions endorse the abuse, public schools do not.
Post by: TheWho on September 14, 2008, 12:46:52 PM
Quote
If you can find me a school that has a policy for a teacher to sit on top of a student for a couple hours who is talking out of turn or misbehaving, I would be very surprised. In fact, I would imagine it would be quite illegal to do so. The kids listed before were killed by staff who were doing what they were told and following their program's policy.
I don’t think we could find anyplace that has a policy which allows teachers or staff (or anybody!!) to sit on top of each other. If you find that policy I would like to see it.
We are still talking about 10 kids over the period of 2 decades vs. 54,000 and that is just the number who were murdered and committed suicide. Does not include accidental death, teachers raping kids, drug overdoses etc.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2008, 12:56:12 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
I don’t think we could find anyplace that has a policy which allows teachers or staff (or anybody!!) to sit on top of each other. If you find that policy I would like to see it.
...
I understand you not having experienced any program you might assume this to be the case, as it would make logical sense. The reality is restraints and physical altercations involving staff vs. students are a very common event. I've seen many, many times several staff members pile on top of a relatively small teen, and hold them that way until they stopped resisting, which sometimes can be a very long time. Talk to former staff members and students, and you will see this to be the case.
You can see an example of it in full action, just click on the video link provided in the post previous to yours.
Tell me TheWho, what would you call what is occurring in that video. Therapy? Treatment? What word or phrase according to you would best describe what is taking place in that video?
Just because bad things happen in public school also, does not dismiss the negatives occuring in programs. What if it had been your daughter who unfortunately made that list, how would you feel when someone dismisses them as "only ten deaths" as you have? Probably not very good, have some empathy for their families.
Post by: RobertBruce on September 14, 2008, 01:01:03 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
QuoteIf you can find me a school that has a policy for a teacher to sit on top of a student for a couple hours who is talking out of turn or misbehaving, I would be very surprised. In fact, I would imagine it would be quite illegal to do so. The kids listed before were killed by staff who were doing what they were told and following their program's policy.
I don’t think we could find anyplace that has a policy which allows teachers or staff (or anybody!!) to sit on top of each other. If you find that policy I would like to see it.
We are still talking about 10 kids over the period of 2 decades vs. 54,000 and that is just the number who were murdered and committed suicide. Does not include accidental death, teachers raping kids, drug overdoses etc.
...
Eckerd Youth Ranch. Remember about a year and a half ago when I told you about the kid who was sat on by the 300 lbs counselor there as part of their "restraint" policy. The kid died and you joked about it claiming McDonalds was to blame, not the counselor. Incidentially that counselor was not fired. If what he did wasnt part of procedure why wouldnt he be? How about it Cindy?
Post by: RobertBruce on September 14, 2008, 01:04:38 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote3,000 kids die every year in public schools? Is this true?
Yes, its almost 60 kids a week die in our public school system. I would not suggest we all run out and start placing our kids in TBS’s based on this information. We need to realize that some programs are safer than others. These statistics are just a piece of the information we all need to know.
Kids in wilderness are more prone to things like insect bites, falling accidents, infection and are not in general proximity to medical help etc.. But they are not in close proximity to drugs or people that could harm them either … which one offsets the other? Each situation is different so all the options need to be weighed prior to making any decisions.
...
Now Cindy, I just want to make sure we're clear on your position. Is it your claim the 60 kids per week die violent deaths in school, as in from the direct results of others violent actions, and not a disease or illness of some kind? I just want to make sure we understand your position.
Post by: TheWho on September 14, 2008, 03:13:11 PM
Quote
I understand you not having experienced any program you might assume this to be the case, as it would make logical sense. The reality is restraints and physical altercations involving staff vs. students are a very common event. I've seen many, many times several staff members pile on top of a relatively small teen, and hold them that way until they stopped resisting, which sometimes can be a very long time. Talk to former staff members and students, and you will see this to be the case.
You can see an example of it in full action, just click on the video link provided in the post previous to yours.
We have had teachers having sex with students, but I don’t believe they have a policy that condones it .
Quote
Tell me TheWho, what would you call what is occurring in that video. Therapy? Treatment? What word or phrase according to you would best describe what is taking place in that video?
What do you think of Columbine, did you watch it? Why do you think they allow that stuff to continue? Why don’t they train the teachers, in the public school system, not to assault children and try to have sex with them? What do you think of that? Is that treatment or school policy on sex education?
Quote
Just because bad things happen in public school also, does not dismiss the negatives occuring in programs.
Exactly my point flip that around and I think you will understand my point.
Quote
What if it had been your daughter who unfortunately made that list, how would you feel when someone dismisses them as "only ten deaths" as you have? Probably not very good, have some empathy for their families.
I have empathy, but I haven’t seen you post any remorse about any of the 54,000 who died or the kids who were raped in Public school. I think you should feel fortunate that you never had a teacher like that or had to suffer through a son or daughter who took their own life because public school teachers don’t have the time or training to recognize when a child is at-risk.
...
Post by: RobertBruce on September 14, 2008, 04:35:44 PM
Quote
We have had teachers having sex with students, but I don’t believe they have a policy that condones it .
Teachers which are then fired. You keep missing that programs have policies in place to allow staff to beat up on kids. Somehow you keep missing that difference.
Quote
What do you think of Columbine, did you watch it? Why do you think they allow that stuff to continue? Why don’t they train the teachers, in the public school system, not to assault children and try to have sex with them? What do you think of that? Is that treatment or school policy on sex education?
You're ignoring his question and trying to deflect the issue. No one is allowing things like Columbine to continue, there are no policies in place that encourage events like Columbine to occur, nor do public schools encourage teachers to have sex with students. As opposed to programs in the PTS where staff often has sex with inmates only to remain employed.
Quote
Exactly my point flip that around and I think you will understand my point.
And again, public schools dont lie to the state about their purpose in order to avoid oversite or regulation. They dont maintain policies regarding hurting kids, and they dont seek out unqualified staff members. They certianlly dont keep staff members who have hurt students employed long after the truth came to light. You keep focusing on the fact that kids get hurt or die in public schools. Fine, no one is disputing that. The difference is how its handled between the two. Public schools are held accountable, they fire unqualified or dangerous staff, and they make adjustments to make sure that incidents like that are not repeated. PTS programs do everything they can to sweep incidents under the rug, the maintain policies that allowed the incident to occur, and they keep the offending staff members on the payroll.
Quote
I have empathy, but I haven’t seen you post any remorse about any of the 54,000 who died or the kids who were raped in Public school. I think you should feel fortunate that you never had a teacher like that or had to suffer through a son or daughter who took their own life because public school teachers don’t have the time or training to recognize when a child is at-risk.
No you don't. You've dismissed and discounted numerous kid's stories of getting hurt and abused or killed. You've gone so far as to make fun of survivors. As far as the rest of your babbelings, what makes you think teachers in the PTS are any better trained to recognize those signs?
Oh and Cindy, I'm still waiting to hear whether or not those 60 kids that you claim die a week in public schools all die from violent deaths. Let me know. I've really missed you.
Post by: TheWho on September 14, 2008, 04:43:03 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Who, are these deaths that occur in high school or are they teenagers in general.?
Post by: TheWho on September 14, 2008, 04:49:28 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Who, are these deaths that occur in high school or are they teenagers in general.?
They are homicides and suicides that occur at school and (If I remember correctly) also includes kids going to school and going home.
I can look that up if you like or you can check the NCES web site where the data came from, but it doesnt include the kids who dropped out of school or are attending private school or boarding schools, TBS etc. They need to be enrolled in a public school to meet the criteria.
Thats why it is broken out that way.
...
Post by: TheWho on September 14, 2008, 04:54:39 PM
Another way to look at it.
Lets say you had a choice of schools to send your child to:
School “A” had 10 deaths in 2 decades
School “B” had 54,000 deaths in 2 decades
And I asked someone which school they would rather send their child to and they responded:
School “A”!!
And then I asked them why and they responded:
“Because it is much safer”
Then someone came back at them and said “How can you say School “A” is safe? Don’t you have any empathy? Try telling the parents of those 10 children that the school is safe!!”
The person may feel bad for the 10 kids but the cause of death and individual feelings were outside the realm of the discussion and therefore the speakers on both sides could not be judged for their empathy or lack of empathy unless either one of them was asked directly.
So it has always been my belief that one needs to consider all aspects of the question and debate (especially the focus of thought) before accusing someone of being insensitive because they may not be speaking to that subject unless you refocus the discussion.
...
Post by: RobertBruce on September 14, 2008, 04:58:29 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
So Cindy, you are claiming that 60 kids die every single week in public schools from violent deaths? A simple yes or no will suffice.Quote from: "Guest"
Who, are these deaths that occur in high school or are they teenagers in general.?
They are homicides and suicides that occur at school and (If I remember correctly) also includes kids going to school and going home.
I can look that up if you like or you can check the NCES web site where the data came from, but it doesnt include the kids who dropped out of school or are attending private school or boarding schools, TBS etc. They need to be enrolled in a public school to meet the criteria.
Thats why it is broken out that way.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2008, 05:53:54 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Guest"
Who, are these deaths that occur in high school or are they teenagers in general.?
They are homicides and suicides that occur at school and (If I remember correctly) also includes kids going to school and going home.
I can look that up if you like or you can check the NCES web site where the data came from, but it doesnt include the kids who dropped out of school or are attending private school or boarding schools, TBS etc. They need to be enrolled in a public school to meet the criteria.
Thats why it is broken out that way.
...
Hey, I went to the NCES website (http://http://nces.ed.gov/) and found THIS table (http://http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindicators/crimeindicators2006/table_01_1.asp) for "Violent Deaths at School and Away From School" for the time span 1992-2005, figures from which don't even come close to the 54,000 figure that TheWho cites, even if you include all homicides, suicides, etc. that happened to that entire population during that time period.
Do I have the wrong table, Who? Why don't YOU provide us with the appropriate link, huh?
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2008, 06:02:48 PM
Quote
School-associated violent deaths include a homicide, suicide, legal intervention (involving a law enforcement officer), or unintentional firearm-related death in which the fatal injury occurred on the campus of a functioning elementary or secondary school in the United States, while the victim was on the way to or from regular sessions at school or while the victim was attending or traveling to or from an official school-sponsored event. Victims include students, staff members, and others who are not students, from July 1, 1992, through June 30, 2005.
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2008, 06:13:14 PM
Post by: TheWho on September 14, 2008, 06:15:02 PM
The number looks like it is closer to 58,000 if you use the 1992 data to extrapolate 1990 and 1991. Then do the same thing with 2006 to get 2007 and 2008.
http://http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindicators/crimeindicators2007/tables/table_01_1.asp?referrer=report
Its been awhile since I read it but I believe it covers all kids ages 4 thru their teen years. If a child was in a detention center I dont believe they included them in their dataset, but again, its been awhile since reading it.
...
Post by: TheWho on September 14, 2008, 06:40:16 PM
They took it a step further and defined methods of death, i.e suffocation, hanging, poinsoning, firearm etc.
Here is a link:
http://http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5635a2.htm
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2008, 06:40:16 PM
Are you saying that one of the reasons parents should send their kids to TBSs, RTCs, wilderness camps, and the like is to protect them from the world at large?
Here is an interesting statistic from the "Executive Summary" page (http://http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindicators/crimeindicators2006/) of the section on School Indicators of Crime and Safety (2006):
Quote
Violent Deaths
* From July 1, 2004, through June 30, 2005, there were 21 homicides and 7 suicides of school-age youth (ages 5–18) at school (Indicator 1). Combined, this number translates into about 1 homicide or suicide of a school-age youth at school per 2 million students enrolled during the 2004–05 school year.
Okay, I think that 1 death/2,000,000 (two million) school-age youth (age 5-18) is a bit lower than what occurs at these shitpits discussed on fornits, but hey, what do I know, haha...
Post by: RobertBruce on September 14, 2008, 06:58:44 PM
Here, here are the real numbers:
School-Associated Violent Death Summary Data
School Year
Total Deaths
2008-2009
(8/1/08 to present)
2
2007-2008
16
2006-2007
32
2005-2006
27
2004-2005
39
2003-2004
49
2002-2003
16
2001-2002
17
2000-2001
31
1999-2000
33
Total:
262
And look Cindy, watch as I preform the amazing feat of actually backing up my claim. Something you may want to learn some day. Watch...
http://www.schoolsecurity.org/trends/sc ... lence.html (http://www.schoolsecurity.org/trends/school_violence.html)
Taaa daaaa!
Cindy you've made your numbers up. There's no real basis, and the truth is that the evidence clearly shows that public schools are safer than anything in the PTS.
Post by: TheWho on September 14, 2008, 06:59:48 PM
Quote
Back pedaling again, eh, Who? The data you cite, whether one considers that number to be 54,000 or 28,000 or whatever, is mostly from the time period the student is NOT in school.
No back pedalling, the tables stand. The numbers in the TBS and wilderness columns include suicides and deaths for the kids when they are “in school” and “out of school”. We didn’t break them apart because the TBS doesnt differentiate whether or not the child was attending school or in their dorm at the time of death (in school or out of school). Its important to compare apples to apples. Thats why the tables were developed that way. All these issues were discussed when we developed the table structure.
Quote
Are you saying that one of the reasons parents should send their kids to TBSs, RTCs, wilderness camps, and the like is to protect them from the world at large?
Look at the tables that were developed. They show total Homicides and suicides in the public sector. These numbers were used as a back drop to compare to TBS and wilderness data.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2008, 07:15:40 PM
Post by: TheWho on September 14, 2008, 07:23:24 PM
http://http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindicators/crimeindicators2007/tables/table_01_1.asp?referrer=report
Compare them to the tables which were developed and you will see that they match. People can draw their own conclusions on what the data is telling us. If you see it as:
saying that one of the reasons parents should send their kids to TBSs, RTCs, wilderness camps, and the like is to protect them from the world at large? That is okay... but I believe everyone could come away with a different message.
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
Post by: Froderik on September 14, 2008, 08:32:43 PM
Which ones are the good programs? Are there any you know of specifically?
Post by: TheWho on September 14, 2008, 09:02:07 PM
Quote from: "Froderik"
TheWho, I know you get asked this a lot, and I can't say for certain if you've answered, but anyway....
Which ones are the good programs? Are there any you know of specifically?
Oh, boy, I did that a year or so ago and I got hammered. I mentioned a few programs that I thought were good and the response was awful. Every negative story you could imagine was posted, nothing positive. There was this admin named Deborah who found the schools web sites and started posting pictures of the staff and making fun of their families and stating that the others with PhD’s were not licensed within the state and it took me a ton of time to produce the evidence that they were in fact licensed. I felt so bad for the people and their families had to witness the humiliation.
So I stay away from naming programs. If this was a regular discussion board we could have that type of talk and weigh the pros and cons of each place and pass along some meaningful information to parents.
Imagine being in a discussion where people asked what you thought was the top 3 best automobiles and you said: “I like Mercedes, Lamborghini and Hondas” and right after you posted you got pictures of all those cars in major accidents and pictures of people who died but not one positive debating point… Ha,Ha,Ha… it would sort of put an end to the discussion fairly quick!!
So I find it best to just stick with general debate and try not to get into naming specific programs.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2008, 10:05:30 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Froderik"TheWho, I know you get asked this a lot, and I can't say for certain if you've answered, but anyway....
Which ones are the good programs? Are there any you know of specifically?
Oh, boy, I did that a year or so ago and I got hammered. I mentioned a few programs that I thought were good and the response was awful. Every negative story you could imagine was posted, nothing positive. There was this admin named Deborah who found the schools web sites and started posting pictures of the staff and making fun of their families and stating that the others with PhD’s were not licensed within the state and it took me a ton of time to produce the evidence that they were in fact licensed. I felt so bad for the people and their families had to witness the humiliation.
So I stay away from naming programs. If this was a regular discussion board we could have that type of talk and weigh the pros and cons of each place and pass along some meaningful information to parents.
Imagine being in a discussion where people asked what you thought was the top 3 best automobiles and you said: “I like Mercedes, Lamborghini and Hondas” and right after you posted you got pictures of all those cars in major accidents and pictures of people who died but not one positive debating point… Ha,Ha,Ha… it would sort of put an end to the discussion fairly quick!!
So I find it best to just stick with general debate and try not to get into naming specific programs.
...
Wow. You admit to being afraid of naming any programs because you're afraid of being liable for a death or injury. If you can't name a "good" program to hold up as an example, you really don't have any faith in the industry you support.
By the way, Deborah did prove staff were unlicensed. Don't think because she isn't posting no one will know you are lying. We don't feel sorry for the staff who were found to be unqualified.
You don't want to name programs because you're afraid you'll name an abusive one. We name them as a warning to others, present personal experiences and post any and all evidence we can gather. You post generalities in favor of the industry without naming programs and their failures/successes. If you support the industry you should have some facilities you're brave enough to name.
Fornits is a regular discussion board, you're allowed to post your pro RTC commercials for the entire industry and debate us. Without naming your good and bad programs you promote them all. StrugglingTeens is not a regular discussion board. ST shares your views, but their discussion board will not tolerate negative comments about the industry. Enjoy your free speech on Fornits who, even while you mock the forum.
Post by: RobertBruce on September 14, 2008, 10:19:10 PM
Quote
it took me a ton of time to produce the evidence that they were in fact licensed.
No you didnt, she shut you up and you scampered off to discuss something else. You've never proven anyone wrong here on anything. You're just too much of a coward to ever admit it. I challenge you to prove me wrong. I know you wont but its funny to watch you squirm. No wonder your family hates you.
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 10:34:17 AM
Quote
Wow. You admit to being afraid of naming any programs because you're afraid of being liable for a death or injury.Death or injury? Not sure what you mean, I don’t believe I ever said that. Who would get hurt?
Quote
If you can't name a "good" program to hold up as an example, you really don't have any faith in the industry you support.
Sounds like I may not be the big supporter everyone thinks. This is what I have been saying all along.
Quote
By the way, Deborah did prove staff were unlicensed. Don't think because she isn't posting no one will know you are lying.
Wrong. One of the staff had an expired license because they had gone from one level in the profession to another. So of course they would allow their old license to expire when they moved up to a new level and picked up a new one.
In the other case the doctor had transferred from another state so his old license (in the previous state) expired but he was re licensed in the new state.
Its easy to make someone look bad if you just post a link to their old expired license. Its a cheap shot to do to someone especially if you don’t even know them.
Quote
We don't feel sorry for the staff who were found to be unqualified.
You don’t feel sorry for “anyone”. You will drag anyone through the mud who is even associated with a program because you have lost all sense of right and wrong or compassion for others. If someone hires a graduate student to work with the kids and you feel they should have their masters degree why is that their fault? What gives you the right to ridicule this kid and post pictures and comments for their family to view on the internet? It is wrong, but you have lost this sense over the years. Is it wrong that this student tries to get a job in a field they love and work with kids and pursue the career they enjoy?
Quote
You don't want to name programs because you're afraid you'll name an abusive one.
You may be right. If I was a program supporter I would have a few key programs to throw out as gems to represent the industry. But as I have said for years I am not a program supporter, just a parent who is here to help get the right message out.
Quote
We name them as a warning to others, present personal experiences and post any and all evidence we can gather. You post generalities in favor of the industry without naming programs and their failures/successes. If you support the industry you should have some facilities you're brave enough to name.
You take the “used car salesman” approach and allow one side of the story to be told. You don’t offer up any positive information as it comes out. If someone happens to mention positive facts about a program you down play them. You don’t have control over what individuals post, but each person has control over themselves.
Quote
Fornits is a regular discussion board, you're allowed to post your pro RTC commercials for the entire industry and debate us. Without naming your good and bad programs you promote them all. StrugglingTeens is not a regular discussion board. ST shares your views, but their discussion board will not tolerate negative comments about the industry. Enjoy your free speech on Fornits who, even while you mock the forum.
Everyone who has read what I post knows I don’t promote programs or support them all. This is a sharp stick tactic because you don’t like me arguing the points. I give people/programs the benefit of the doubt. Anyone who has read a few pages here knows no one else does that here (or very few at least). I am able to say that I am not in favor of children with Aspergers or Autistic children being sent to a program. I don’t believe children with attachment issues should be treated outside the home (unless the family is pursuing a disruption). I have changed my views on regulation, staff requirements and I don’t believe parents should be able to send their child to a program without sign off from a therapist or counsellor. I continue to grow and learn every day which effects my views on the industry. Many here cannot make this claim and hold the same views they had 30 years ago.
If a child gets hurt fornits turns into a lynch mob and even if it goes to jury if the results don’t come out the way you like you still accuse the people who were acquitted and brand them abusers.
I don’t mock the forum, but I may mock some of the people who post here in retaliation which is mild compared to what gets thrown at me and mild compared to what I see being done to staff people who many have never even met. If you took some time to meet some of these people face to face and understand what drives them and what makes them tick you would never try to discredit them or embarrass them in front of their families the way it is done here. You place an ugly mask on program staff so you don’t have to look at their faces while you ridicule and accuse them of being abusers. You get so caught up in it that you don’t even realize you are being abusive yourselves.
If you were so above board you would try to base some of your believes on facts and statistics instead of repeating the same 10 children’s names over and over again. You reject numbers as cherry picked or suspect if the results are not what you want them to be.
There was a Pulitzer prized winning novelist who spent a year and a half inside a program and wrote what he saw and the childrens experiences. I would think that this would be one of the top books that would be on the fornits book list. But it is not even listed or discussed because he didn’t see the abuse fornits is selling to people here. Please don’t pretend to be open minded and make statements like: ....fornits ” post any and all evidence we can gather”. Any person who has been reading here for a few hours knows this not to be true.
Sorry, I don’t know who you are so if I was too harsh or unfair, I apologize
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 10:43:38 AM
Quote from: "TheWho"
You don’t feel sorry for “anyone”. You will drag anyone through the mud who is even associated with a program because you have lost all sense of right and wrong or compassion for others. If someone hires a graduate student to work with the kids and you feel they should have their masters degree why is that their fault?
We feel that when a "school" advertises that "students" are "counseled" by someone with a Masters or higher, and then we find out that they're really being seen by graduate students, it's wrong. False advertising.
Quote
Everyone who has read what I post knows I don’t promote programs or support them all.
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote
hold the same views they had 30 years ago.
Because nothing much has changed since 30 or 40 years ago. They still use the same tactics and methodologies.
Quote
There was a Pulitzer prized winning novelist who spent a year and a half inside a program and wrote what he saw and the childrens experiences. I would think that this would be one of the top books that would be on the fornits book list. But it is not even listed or discussed because he didn’t see the abuse fornits is selling to people here.
You mean the guy who is now a PAID CONSULTANT for programs??
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 10:57:51 AM
As people read the responses in the above post you will understand why I am here.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 11:05:23 AM
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 11:21:57 AM
If you can't name one program you feel confidant about you obviously know the truth: they're all shit.
You're the flim-flam man. You're an industry popcorn. Considering you won't identify any program as good or bad, is it right for you to post on threads about specific programs? You defend them with your posts.
Flim-flam man. Suckerass popcorn monkey-boy. Industry whore. You talk much shit about an industry as a whole, but you won't identify a single program with some up or down thumb action. You're a Gacy clown and a low paid flunky.
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 11:57:55 AM
Dam you, you bootless swag-bellied flap-dragon………I shall alter your self esteem utilizing my handy flint and limestone… Thou caluminous folly-fallen clack-dish!....I will brow beat you with endless photos of children attending the college of their choice…. You are a conspicuously incorrigible pervert and a catatonic, gossip-mongering offense to all of good taste and decency. ….. I shall personally force you to swim laps in the ASR pool, with the heater turned off!!....
You are buttock-rimming proof that evolution can go in reverse. ….I will seat you at the bow during ASR’s white water rafting trip….. all You men! You beasts! That quench the fire of your pernicious rage!" I will force thee to wax your own skis. There is nothing wrong with you that reincarnation wont cure, although you suffer from delusions of adequacy I shall restrain you and force you to read college acceptance letters.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: "Sheeeit"
@Who: you're a weenie jabber. They banned you, you was crying like a pussy. Now you can't even name a program you support not even your beloved ASR. You could cite the Whitmore as an abusive program safely but I guess you don't think it was.
If you can't name one program you feel confidant about you obviously know the truth: they're all shit.
You're the flim-flam man. You're an industry popcorn. Considering you won't identify any program as good or bad, is it right for you to post on threads about specific programs? You defend them with your posts.
Flim-flam man. Suckerass popcorn monkey-boy. Industry whore. You talk much shit about an industry as a whole, but you won't identify a single program with some up or down thumb action. You're a Gacy clown and a low paid flunky.
Nailed it!!!
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 12:21:14 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
You claim I am a weenie Jabber? … you ingrate…you dare to question me, my man!! Why, Why I will strangle you within inches of your life with my ASR scarf... I will saddle you with the task of reading thousands of thank you letters from former students….. You are a shockingly backward rapscallion ....you will be forced to choose from the ASR Vegan menu for 1 week……. You are an unconscionably ill-mannered barbarian , and a dastardly, foul-smelling festering boil on the butt of humanity….I shall personally see to it that you are tasked with dispensing the popcorn during movie night, and you shall endure a personal bag without butter!!! …. You are nothing but a whoreson mandrake…..I will hire an escort service to forcibly take you into town to endure date night with the other ASR students.
Dam you, you bootless swag-bellied flap-dragon………I shall alter your self esteem utilizing my handy flint and limestone… Thou caluminous folly-fallen clack-dish!....I will brow beat you with endless photos of children attending the college of their choice…. You are a conspicuously incorrigible pervert and a catatonic, gossip-mongering offense to all of good taste and decency. ….. I shall personally force you to swim laps in the ASR pool, with the heater turned off!!....
You are buttock-rimming proof that evolution can go in reverse. ….I will seat you at the bow during ASR’s white water rafting trip….. all You men! You beasts! That quench the fire of your pernicious rage!" I will force thee to wax your own skis. There is nothing wrong with you that reincarnation wont cure, although you suffer from delusions of adequacy I shall restrain you and force you to read college acceptance letters.
...
whoreson mandrake? LOL thats my favorite!
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 12:26:48 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
QuoteWow. You admit to being afraid of naming any programs because you're afraid of being liable for a death or injury.Death or injury? Not sure what you mean, I don’t believe I ever said that. Who would get hurt?QuoteIf you can't name a "good" program to hold up as an example, you really don't have any faith in the industry you support.
Sounds like I may not be the big supporter everyone thinks. This is what I have been saying all along.QuoteBy the way, Deborah did prove staff were unlicensed. Don't think because she isn't posting no one will know you are lying.
Wrong. One of the staff had an expired license because they had gone from one level in the profession to another. So of course they would allow their old license to expire when they moved up to a new level and picked up a new one.
In the other case the doctor had transferred from another state so his old license (in the previous state) expired but he was re licensed in the new state.
Its easy to make someone look bad if you just post a link to their old expired license. Its a cheap shot to do to someone especially if you don’t even know them.QuoteWe don't feel sorry for the staff who were found to be unqualified.
You don’t feel sorry for “anyone”. You will drag anyone through the mud who is even associated with a program because you have lost all sense of right and wrong or compassion for others. If someone hires a graduate student to work with the kids and you feel they should have their masters degree why is that their fault? What gives you the right to ridicule this kid and post pictures and comments for their family to view on the internet? It is wrong, but you have lost this sense over the years. Is it wrong that this student tries to get a job in a field they love and work with kids and pursue the career they enjoy?QuoteYou don't want to name programs because you're afraid you'll name an abusive one.
You may be right. If I was a program supporter I would have a few key programs to throw out as gems to represent the industry. But as I have said for years I am not a program supporter, just a parent who is here to help get the right message out.QuoteWe name them as a warning to others, present personal experiences and post any and all evidence we can gather. You post generalities in favor of the industry without naming programs and their failures/successes. If you support the industry you should have some facilities you're brave enough to name.
You take the “used car salesman” approach and allow one side of the story to be told. You don’t offer up any positive information as it comes out. If someone happens to mention positive facts about a program you down play them. You don’t have control over what individuals post, but each person has control over themselves.QuoteFornits is a regular discussion board, you're allowed to post your pro RTC commercials for the entire industry and debate us. Without naming your good and bad programs you promote them all. StrugglingTeens is not a regular discussion board. ST shares your views, but their discussion board will not tolerate negative comments about the industry. Enjoy your free speech on Fornits who, even while you mock the forum.
Everyone who has read what I post knows I don’t promote programs or support them all. This is a sharp stick tactic because you don’t like me arguing the points. I give people/programs the benefit of the doubt. Anyone who has read a few pages here knows no one else does that here (or very few at least). I am able to say that I am not in favor of children with Aspergers or Autistic children being sent to a program. I don’t believe children with attachment issues should be treated outside the home (unless the family is pursuing a disruption). I have changed my views on regulation, staff requirements and I don’t believe parents should be able to send their child to a program without sign off from a therapist or counsellor. I continue to grow and learn every day which effects my views on the industry. Many here cannot make this claim and hold the same views they had 30 years ago.
If a child gets hurt fornits turns into a lynch mob and even if it goes to jury if the results don’t come out the way you like you still accuse the people who were acquitted and brand them abusers.
I don’t mock the forum, but I may mock some of the people who post here in retaliation which is mild compared to what gets thrown at me and mild compared to what I see being done to staff people who many have never even met. If you took some time to meet some of these people face to face and understand what drives them and what makes them tick you would never try to discredit them or embarrass them in front of their families the way it is done here. You place an ugly mask on program staff so you don’t have to look at their faces while you ridicule and accuse them of being abusers. You get so caught up in it that you don’t even realize you are being abusive yourselves.
If you were so above board you would try to base some of your believes on facts and statistics instead of repeating the same 10 children’s names over and over again. You reject numbers as cherry picked or suspect if the results are not what you want them to be.
There was a Pulitzer prized winning novelist who spent a year and a half inside a program and wrote what he saw and the childrens experiences. I would think that this would be one of the top books that would be on the fornits book list. But it is not even listed or discussed because he didn’t see the abuse fornits is selling to people here. Please don’t pretend to be open minded and make statements like: ....fornits ” post any and all evidence we can gather”. Any person who has been reading here for a few hours knows this not to be true.
Sorry, I don’t know who you are so if I was too harsh or unfair, I apologize
...
Hate to admit it but you do have a point. Personally I dont think all programs are bad. There are some good ones out there.
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 12:30:24 PM
Quote from: "MeganC"
Hate to admit it but you do have a point. Personally I dont think all programs are bad. There are some good ones out there.
Then I would invite either of you to please name at least ONE. Just one.
We'll all be waiting patiently.
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 12:53:34 PM
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 01:24:25 PM
@Who: yeah, yeah, yeah. Blah, blah, blah. Name the good the bad and the ugly programs, please. Otherwise, you can't see the trees for the forest.
Oh yeah. I didn't really read your rubbish reply but here's a brief and succinct response: Fuck you flim-flam man. Ya wishy-washy weenie jabber.
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 02:05:56 PM
Quote
I didn't really read your rubbish reply
Of course you didnt!!! This is how many people form their opinions here. This has been my point all along(or one of them). You look at a web site or read a post about a kid who was punished by a staff member and you make up your mind about the entire industry..... why should any of us expect you to start basing your opinions on current information or expect you to read now? It is obvious when you say "all programs are abusive", "all staff members are evil" that you know nothing about the industry or programs/staff you are talking about.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 02:16:25 PM
Is ASR the benchmark (snicker) for good programs? Quit being so vague and take a stand. You're an admitted liar: are you a pussy as well?
Don't be a pussy.
Post by: psy on September 15, 2008, 02:18:55 PM
Quote from: "Aghast"
@who: I didn't read that either because I didn't see the names of any programs.
He read it. He's just very selective with what he chooses to answer. Suggestion: try repeating your demand that he answer until he actually does. He doesn't like others noting his reluctance to answer certain questions.
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 02:36:49 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Aghast"@who: I didn't read that either because I didn't see the names of any programs.
He read it.
I believe him... he didnt read it. The evidence points away from most people here (with similar beliefs) having an informed opinion. When people state that all programs are bad it is a tip off that they have an agenda. We all know this... "All Blacks are alike!!"....."All Jews are greedy!!"....."All Irish people are Drunks" etc. we know there is no truth behind it, how could there be? The statement that all programs are the same typically comes from people who attended 1 program and had a hard time with one staff member. Its apparent new readers after a few minutes here.
When I start reading opinions that are informed and discussions about specific programs which are good and ones which are not so good then I will join that discussion on specific programs. But until that time I will continue to contribute to the discussion the way I have been.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 02:56:49 PM
Quote from: "thewho...."
Quote from: "psy"Quote from: "Aghast"@who: I didn't read that either because I didn't see the names of any programs.
He read it.
meow meow. racist remark. meow.
...
@Who: Psy misread the post.
Still no programs listed as pro or con. Pussy is a name that will follow you flim-flam man.
Post by: RobertBruce on September 15, 2008, 03:05:32 PM
Quote
Wrong. One of the staff had an expired license because they had gone from one level in the profession to another. So of course they would allow their old license to expire when they moved up to a new level and picked up a new one.
In the other case the doctor had transferred from another state so his old license (in the previous state) expired but he was re licensed in the new state.
Its easy to make someone look bad if you just post a link to their old expired license. Its a cheap shot to do to someone especially if you don’t even know them.
Wrong. The woman in question had no license. Again just because Deb is here shoudlnt be an excuse to lie about it.
Quote
You don’t feel sorry for “anyone”. You will drag anyone through the mud who is even associated with a program because you have lost all sense of right and wrong or compassion for others. If someone hires a graduate student to work with the kids and you feel they should have their masters degree why is that their fault? What gives you the right to ridicule this kid and post pictures and comments for their family to view on the internet? It is wrong, but you have lost this sense over the years. Is it wrong that this student tries to get a job in a field they love and work with kids and pursue the career they enjoy?
Oh but Cindy, it wasnt so long ago you paraded around on here claiming that I was bi sexual. You lied and claimed I had stated as such, but in fact an HLA staffer made the comment to you. The fact that it wasnt true makes no difference. Why would you admonish others for criticizing staffers for being unqualified yet relish the idea of believing youre outing someone who disagrees with you on here? Thats preety backwards logic.
Quote
You may be right. If I was a program supporter I would have a few key programs to throw out as gems to represent the industry. But as I have said for years I am not a program supporter, just a parent who is here to help get the right message out.
Propoganda is never the right message Cindy. You have nothing to say because every program youve ever supported has been exposed. Yet youre still unwilling to admit youre wrong.
Quote
You take the “used car salesman” approach and allow one side of the story to be told. You don’t offer up any positive information as it comes out. If someone happens to mention positive facts about a program you down play them. You don’t have control over what individuals post, but each person has control over themselves.
What positive facts? Produce some and we can discuss them. In the meantime see if you can add some balance and perspective to the HLA board, or ST.
Quote
If a child gets hurt fornits turns into a lynch mob and even if it goes to jury if the results don’t come out the way you like you still accuse the people who were acquitted and brand them abusers.
Cite specific cases. Cases where the incident wasnt swept under the rug, all the facts came to light and the person was still aquited. See what you can come up with.
Quote
I don’t mock the forum, but I may mock some of the people who post here in retaliation which is mild compared to what gets thrown at me and mild compared to what I see being done to staff people who many have never even met. If you took some time to meet some of these people face to face and understand what drives them and what makes them tick you would never try to discredit them or embarrass them in front of their families the way it is done here. You place an ugly mask on program staff so you don’t have to look at their faces while you ridicule and accuse them of being abusers. You get so caught up in it that you don’t even realize you are being abusive yourselves.
Idiot we do know these people thats the point. We had to deal with them day in and day out. We know exactly the kinds of people they are because we had to suffer abuse at the hands of them. You mock survivors stories and belittle people talking about how they were abused. None of those people have attacked you and you havent suffered as they have. You say you do this in retaliation. Aside from the fact that you do it to the wrong people (because you arent capable of handling those of us who embarrass you so often) whats to say we arent just retailiating against those who abused us?
Quote
If you were so above board you would try to base some of your believes on facts and statistics instead of repeating the same 10 children’s names over and over again. You reject numbers as cherry picked or suspect if the results are not what you want them to be.
No we reject your bull shit numbers. As proven time and time again including last night, your tired numbers have no bearing whatsoever. Many many more than ten kids have been killed in the PTS. It is you who refuses to accept numbers if the results are not what you want them to be.
Post by: RobertBruce on September 15, 2008, 03:09:27 PM
Quote
He doesn't like others noting his reluctance to answer certain questions.
Thats a good point Psy.
Cindy is it your claim that 60 kids per week die violent deaths in public schools?
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 03:21:43 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 03:23:00 PM
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 03:46:06 PM
Quote from: "Aghast again."
@Who: Still no programs listed as pro or con? Pussy is a name that will follow you flim-flam man.
Thanks, psy, for putting the trolls on me. This may hurt all of us!!
Niles will be upset with all of you for resorting to ad hominem attacks.
...
Post by: psy on September 15, 2008, 03:50:16 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Aghast again."@Who: Still no programs listed as pro or con? Pussy is a name that will follow you flim-flam man.
Thanks, psy, for putting the trolls on me. This may hurt all of us!!
Niles will be upset with all of you for resorting to ad hominem attacks.
Ad hominem or not, you still didn't answer the question: If there are good programs out there, name one!
Keep on em, boys (and girls).
Funny thing is that I can think of a really easy way for the who to answer the question without answering it and get out of this, but I'm not telling (good thing i'm not a propogandist)... :D least not until he answers.
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 04:05:53 PM
Here is a "good" and a "bad" program
Good Bad Program (http://http://www.djj.state.fl.us/Research/Scared_Straight_Booklet_Version.pdf)
Post by: psy on September 15, 2008, 04:09:08 PM
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 04:19:45 PM
sigh...Bring on the trolls, I guess. Some one cut RobertBruce lose again (let DJ know so he can reel him in to be fed and rehydrated once in awhile) and a few of the regulars. They can take turns derailing every every thread I am on and then you can try to bag me for flooding or advertising (what ever it was, I forget).
The new readers may find it more informative to discuss issues pertaining to programs, though. But your the admin here.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 04:23:41 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
t).
The new readers may find it more informative to discuss issues pertaining to programs, though. But your the admin here.
...
I'm a new reader and I'd like to discuss program issues: can you name some good programs and identify the abusive ones for me? Thank you Mr. Who!
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 04:43:20 PM
Quote from: "new guest"
Quote from: "TheWho"t).
The new readers may find it more informative to discuss issues pertaining to programs, though. But your the admin here.
...
I'm a new reader and I'd like to discuss program issues: can you name some good programs and identify the abusive ones for me? Thank you Mr. Who!
hello,new guest, its nice to see you found this place. Fornits can be a vast wealth of information for people who are new to the industry. I would consider looking at ASR or the ASPEN web site for starters and try to stay away from places like Whitmore or Straight spin-offs. You should first consider having your child evaluated locally.
If you have any other questions you can email me at:
[email protected]
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 04:57:47 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "new guest"Quote from: "TheWho"t).
The new readers may find it more informative to discuss issues pertaining to programs, though. But your the admin here.
...
I'm a new reader and I'd like to discuss program issues: can you name some good programs and identify the abusive ones for me? Thank you Mr. Who!
hello,new guest, its nice to see you found this place. Fornits can be a vast wealth of information for people who are new to the industry. I would consider looking at ASR or the ASPEN web site for starters and try to stay away from places like Whitmore or Straight spin-offs. You should first consider having your child evaluated locally.
If you have any other questions you can email me at:
[email protected]
...
Great! So you guarantee no child has died or been harmed at ASR or any ASPEN school. Is that correct? My daughter is off to Aspen Achievement Academy based on your recommendation! I hope no young girls have ever been sexually abused there. Is there a way to let the people at AAA know you referred me Mr. Who? You surely get paid for what you do for them.
Could you be more specific about the abusive programs? "Places like" is a bit vague, and the two you mention are for all intents and purposes non-existent now. Considering you're confidence in the safety of all ASPEN schools, you should be just as aware of the "bad" programs.
The survivors here don't hesitate to name the abusive programs. Some of them are being sued for having the guts to speak out against programs. What's your problem with naming the dangerous programs, Mr. Who? You should feel morally obligated to make the public aware of the abusive places.
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 05:27:31 PM
Quote
Great! So you guarantee no child has died or been harmed at ASR or any ASPEN school. Is that correct?
Yes, they have a very impressive record. They surveyed every child that ever graduated from an Aspen school and not one died during their stay there.
Quote
My daughter is off to Aspen Achievement Academy based on your recommendation! I hope no young girls have ever been sexually abused there. Is there a way to let the people at AAA know you referred me Mr. Who? You surely get paid for what you do for them.
I wish you had contacted me before she left. If you mention “Thewho” to your escort driver you get 100 bonus Aspen points and I get 2,000. Once the girl is enrolled I get 5,000 Apsen points. You should try to hold on to them, you will be receiving them over the course of her stay. Example: For every parent visit where there isn’t any confrontation with staff or direct questions asked you get 1,000 Aspen points etc. You will receive a brochure in the mail telling you how you can redeem your points.
I am shooting for a Dinner with Mitt Romney which is worth 50,000 Aspen points. Good luck.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 05:35:27 PM
Nice going, Who. How dare you make referrals on Fornits? You deceived a parent who was looking for information.
New guest: PLEASE READ! Be aware the unscrupulous industry people like the who will deceive you in order to get your child into their program.
http://www.isaccorp.org/aspen/aspen-ach ... 05.91.html (http://www.isaccorp.org/aspen/aspen-achievement.12.05.91.html)
MOTHER SUES, ACCUSES EX-WILDERNESS THERAPIST OF ABUSING DAUGHTER
Chris Jorgensen
Salt Lake Tribune
December 5, 1991
For $15,000, the Orem-based Aspen Achievement Academy promises to turn around wayward lives in 56 days.
A California mother who took up the popular wilderness-therapy program on its promise claims her 14-year-old daughter was sexually assaulted repeatedly by a female Aspen counselor.
When confronted by academy officials about the assaults, the counselor allegedly admitted sodomizing the girl and was fired.
One of the assaults came on the October night of the girl's graduation from the program and was witnessed by the mother, claims the family's attorney, who filed a $2.3 million lawsuit Wednesday in 3rd District Court.
Aspen administrator Doug Nelson refused to discuss the allegations.
"The kids sent to these programs have all kinds of problems going in. What could something like this do to a child that already has problems?" attorney Charles Thronson said.
The academy was negligent in not supervising the counselor more closely and should have known better than to hire her in the first place, the attorney claims.
Therapists in Utah cannot have a criminal record. Before any therapist is hired, a background check is mandatory.
In Wayne County, where Aspen Achievement operates, Sheriff Leon Brinkerhoff routinely performs the background check on the academy's prospective employees.
"I normally run all the backgrounds. Aspen insists on it," the sheriff said. "But I've never received any information on this woman and she wasn't checked by me."
The sheriff first heard of the sodomy allegations in a November letter from Aspen stating the matter was being handled by state social-service officials and there would be no criminal investigation.
There is some question if the girl was 13 years old at the time of the alleged assaults, or 14, which in Utah is the age of consent, said Ken Stettler, licensing specialist with the Utah Department of Human Services.
Aspen acted properly in firing the counselor and the program won't be affected by the allegations, he said.
"As soon as Aspen was made aware of what happened, they fired her on the spot," said Mr. Stettler. "Any state investigation wouldn't have been working toward that end anyway."
International Survivors Action Committee Return to ISAC's Document Library Page
Return to ISAC's Recent Articles Page
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 05:57:32 PM
Quote from: "Aghast"
New guest: the Who is lying to you! Do NOT send your child to Aspen Achievement Center!
Nice going, Who. How dare you make referrals on Fornits? You deceived a parent who was looking for information.
New guest: PLEASE READ! Be aware the unscrupulous industry people like the who will deceive you in order to get your child into their program.
Aghast, Stop it right now!! You are jepordizing my points and the points of the new guest!! Where the hell are your priorities for crying out loud!! If the girl is pulled I lose all the points, even the escort bonus.
Stick to your own side of the street.
Last warning!!
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 06:15:24 PM
Quote from: "thewho...."
Quote from: "Aghast"New guest: the Who is lying to you! Do NOT send your child to Aspen Achievement Center!
Nice going, Who. How dare you make referrals on Fornits? You deceived a parent who was looking for information.
New guest: PLEASE READ! Be aware the unscrupulous industry people like the who will deceive you in order to get your child into their program.
Aghast, Stop it right now!! You are jepordizing my points and the points of the new guest!! Where the hell are your priorities for crying out loud!! If the girl is pulled I lose all the points, even the escort bonus.
Stick to your own side of the street.
Last warning!!
Your facetious comments aren't going to cover your ass. You joke about abusive programs? You refer to ASPEN schools.
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 06:28:04 PM
To thewho: I called the Academy and they are allowing me to get the bonus points for the escort and I receive 10 bonus points for every day I don’t call the school and 1,000 bonus points if I pay for the whole year in advance. This is great!! I am saving for the Aspen “GPS promise ring” for my daughter.
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 07:13:28 PM
Quote from: "New Guest"
Thanks aghast, Actually the article you posted was one of the reasons we chose an Aspen school. If you notice the date of the article was 1991 and as soon as Aspen found out about the problem they fired the girl on the spot (see the last few lines of the article). I like a school that doesn’t tolerate abusive staff and has a couple decades of experience. If that happened in your typical local public school the teacher would hang around forever trying to sue the school system claiming tenure or move to a different school system etc. Aspen doesn’t allow that.
To thewho: I called the Academy and they are allowing me to get the bonus points for the escort and I receive 10 bonus points for every day I don’t call the school and 1,000 bonus points if I pay for the whole year in advance. This is great!! I am saving for the Aspen “GPS promise ring” for my daughter.
Your welcome, New Guest, sorry for that outburst but I think thewho is an asshole who refuses to name a good program but it does seem that AAA was a good fit for your daughter so it was a good suggestion on his part. After I followed up on that article I have to admit that thewho was right and I have never been a fan of the public school system either, but there will never come the day that I like him. Good luck with you and your daughter.
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 07:35:45 PM
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=15260&st=0&sk=t&sd=a (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=15260&st=0&sk=t&sd=a)
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=23371 (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=23371)
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=23283 (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=23283)
Post by: Che Gookin on September 15, 2008, 07:53:24 PM
Quote from: "aghast"
Quote from: "New Guest"Thanks aghast, Actually the article you posted was one of the reasons we chose an Aspen school. If you notice the date of the article was 1991 and as soon as Aspen found out about the problem they fired the girl on the spot (see the last few lines of the article). I like a school that doesn’t tolerate abusive staff and has a couple decades of experience. If that happened in your typical local public school the teacher would hang around forever trying to sue the school system claiming tenure or move to a different school system etc. Aspen doesn’t allow that.
To thewho: I called the Academy and they are allowing me to get the bonus points for the escort and I receive 10 bonus points for every day I don’t call the school and 1,000 bonus points if I pay for the whole year in advance. This is great!! I am saving for the Aspen “GPS promise ring” for my daughter.
Your welcome, New Guest, sorry for that outburst but I think thewho is an asshole who refuses to name a good program but it does seem that AAA was a good fit for your daughter so it was a good suggestion on his part. After I followed up on that article I have to admit that thewho was right and I have never been a fan of the public school system either, but there will never come the day that I like him. Good luck with you and your daughter.
GPS promise ring, bonus points for not calling, bonus points for paying in advance???
:bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: ::fullofshit:: ::fullofshit:: ::fullofshit:: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: ::fullofshit:: ::fullofshit:: ::fullofshit:: ::fullofshit::
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 08:33:45 PM
Quote from: "aghast"
Quote from: "New Guest"Thanks aghast, Actually the article you posted was one of the reasons we chose an Aspen school. If you notice the date of the article was 1991 and as soon as Aspen found out about the problem they fired the girl on the spot (see the last few lines of the article). I like a school that doesn’t tolerate abusive staff and has a couple decades of experience. If that happened in your typical local public school the teacher would hang around forever trying to sue the school system claiming tenure or move to a different school system etc. Aspen doesn’t allow that.
To thewho: I called the Academy and they are allowing me to get the bonus points for the escort and I receive 10 bonus points for every day I don’t call the school and 1,000 bonus points if I pay for the whole year in advance. This is great!! I am saving for the Aspen “GPS promise ring” for my daughter.
Your welcome, New Guest, sorry for that outburst but I think thewho is an asshole who refuses to name a good program but it does seem that AAA was a good fit for your daughter so it was a good suggestion on his part. After I followed up on that article I have to admit that thewho was right and I have never been a fan of the public school system either, but there will never come the day that I like him. Good luck with you and your daughter.
Hey who, don't pretend to be multiple people to cover your gaffe. You really are a pathetic piece of subhuman shit and a liar. Fuck you. Fuck your masters at ASPEN.
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 08:37:15 PM
Quote from: "aghast"
Quote from: "New Guest"Thanks aghast, Actually the article you posted was one of the reasons we chose an Aspen school. If you notice the date of the article was 1991 and as soon as Aspen found out about the problem they fired the girl on the spot (see the last few lines of the article). I like a school that doesn’t tolerate abusive staff and has a couple decades of experience. If that happened in your typical local public school the teacher would hang around forever trying to sue the school system claiming tenure or move to a different school system etc. Aspen doesn’t allow that.
To thewho: I called the Academy and they are allowing me to get the bonus points for the escort and I receive 10 bonus points for every day I don’t call the school and 1,000 bonus points if I pay for the whole year in advance. This is great!! I am saving for the Aspen “GPS promise ring” for my daughter.
Your welcome, New Guest, sorry for that outburst but I think thewho is an asshole who refuses to name a good program but it does seem that AAA was a good fit for your daughter so it was a good suggestion on his part. After I followed up on that article I have to admit that thewho was right and I have never been a fan of the public school system either, but there will never come the day that I like him. Good luck with you and your daughter.
I didn't write that! This who person is not balanced! I would never send my child to a place where a crime like that occurred. Seventeen years ago or a hundred years ago!
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 08:49:24 PM
Quote from: "New Guest"
Quote from: "aghast"Quote from: "New Guest"Thanks aghast, Actually the article you posted was one of the reasons we chose an Aspen school. If you notice the date of the article was 1991 and as soon as Aspen found out about the problem they fired the girl on the spot (see the last few lines of the article). I like a school that doesn’t tolerate abusive staff and has a couple decades of experience. If that happened in your typical local public school the teacher would hang around forever trying to sue the school system claiming tenure or move to a different school system etc. Aspen doesn’t allow that.
To thewho: I called the Academy and they are allowing me to get the bonus points for the escort and I receive 10 bonus points for every day I don’t call the school and 1,000 bonus points if I pay for the whole year in advance. This is great!! I am saving for the Aspen “GPS promise ring” for my daughter.
Your welcome, New Guest, sorry for that outburst but I think thewho is an asshole who refuses to name a good program but it does seem that AAA was a good fit for your daughter so it was a good suggestion on his part. After I followed up on that article I have to admit that thewho was right and I have never been a fan of the public school system either, but there will never come the day that I like him. Good luck with you and your daughter.
I didn't write that! This who person is not balanced! I would never send my child to a place where a crime like that occurred. Seventeen years ago or a hundred years ago!
New Guest, You didnt write any of that?? I wish I knew earlier I just reamed out thewho for no reason. I still hate public schools but thewho isnt as bad as I thought, sorry who.
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 09:33:01 PM
...
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 09:35:05 PM
Does this mean that if you are not logged in you can post hateful and abusive etc. posts? Not that I want to do any of it but from reading here it seems most of the hate comes from people who are not logged in.
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 09:36:55 PM
:guesswho: :guesswho: :guesswho: :guesswho: :guesswho: :blabla: :blabla: :blabla: :blabla:
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 09:44:05 PM
Quote from: "New GuestII"
TheWho your back. Yeah, I am switching to New GuestII I think someone liked my name and took it over. half of that stuff wasn’t even me. This is a weird forum it has lots of energy, angry people too. I am going to try to log in but after reading I have to agree to this: “ You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material ....”
Does this mean that if you are not logged in you can post hateful and abusive etc. posts? Not that I want to do any of it but from reading here it seems most of the hate comes from people who are not logged in.
Ha,Ha,Ha good observation. I never read the requirements to sign in. I guess I have been here so long I either forgot or they didn’t require it back then. You will need to provide an email address but you don’t have to show it to anyone and you can block people from contacting you if you want. How is your daughter doing?
If you need any help just email me at:
[email protected]
Seems my personal trolls are back, I apologize for all of this the posters are pretty friendly once you get to know them. There is plenty of good reading on here and I can direct you to some sites if you like.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 09:44:20 PM
http://www.heal-online.org/Takedown.mpg (http://www.heal-online.org/Takedown.mpg)
Post by: TheWho on September 15, 2008, 09:46:58 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 09:49:22 PM
Quote from: "RalphF"
I don't post here much. I was security guard at the program TheWho sent his kid to. I was able to smuggle out some hidden video of an incident involving his daughter...
http://www.heal-online.org/Takedown.mpg (http://www.heal-online.org/Takedown.mpg)
Did you send this video while his daughter was still in the program? Why would he keep his daughter there after knowing she was being abused in this way?! ::puke:: :bs: ::OMG::
It sounds like textbook sadism too me! that's why he doesn't see anything wrong with his behavior. 100% sociopath.
Post by: RobertBruce on September 15, 2008, 10:47:23 PM
Quote
is it beyond my considerable abilities...
sigh...Bring on the trolls, I guess. Some one cut RobertBruce lose again (let DJ know so he can reel him in to be fed and rehydrated once in awhile) and a few of the regulars. They can take turns derailing every every thread I am on and then you can try to bag me for flooding or advertising (what ever it was, I forget).
The new readers may find it more informative to discuss issues pertaining to programs, though. But your the admin here.
Cindy it's impossible to derail a train wreck. Thats all any of your threads are. For a real discussion to occur both parties have to be in touch with reality and willing to recognize certain truths. You've never been capable of either of those things. You were banned for spamming and pretending to be other posters, but you already know that, you're just still too much of a coward to ever admit it. If you can't stand to be held accountable, leave. I assure you no one will care, although there will be less on fornits to laugh at.
Oh and Cindy, is it your claim that 60 kids per week die violent deaths in public schools?
Post by: Anonymous on September 15, 2008, 10:50:44 PM
Read more here.
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=21438&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=45 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=21438&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=45)
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 09:54:57 AM
You're a pig, thewho. You are a miserable degenerate who should have all his postings marked with WARNING: THIS PERSON KNOWINGLY REFERS TO ABUSIVE PROGRAMS. How can you stand knowing that you are responsible for kids being abused in the programs you call "safe" Mr. Who?
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2008, 10:21:17 AM
Quote from: "New Guest"
Oh my God! This who fellow is a monster! He let that happen to his child and he still works for the industry? Why is he allowed to refer parents to his programs via email here?? Who was he talking to when he was asking about my daughter? I said I would never place her in an ASPEN school and the video re-affirms my decision. Why is this sadistic who monster even here? He's like some sick predator trying to snag a desperate parent before they can read over the forums. They must pay him a lot to do this shameful and disgusting work.
You're a pig, thewho. You are a miserable degenerate who should have all his postings marked with WARNING: THIS PERSON KNOWINGLY REFERS TO ABUSIVE PROGRAMS. How can you stand knowing that you are responsible for kids being abused in the programs you call "safe" Mr. Who?
I agree with you , New Guest, We should have a screening process before people are allowed to post here. dont get me wrong, I am open minded, I just dont want to have people posting stuff that forces me to think or makes me defend my beliefs. Dam I hate him. Why cant people just all be alike, like I am?
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 16, 2008, 10:28:30 AM
Quote from: "aghast"
I agree with you , New Guest, We should have a screening process before people are allowed to post here. dont get me wrong, I am open minded, I just dont want to have people posting stuff that forces me to think or makes me defend my beliefs. Dam I hate him. Why cant people just all be alike, like I am?
;D ;D ;D :rasta: :rasta:
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 10:29:15 AM
Don't be a coward who. Log in and defend yourself. Don't assume the identities of others and try to make them look as perverted as you.
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2008, 10:50:10 AM
Quote from: "Aghast"
Ignore thewho using my log in - I stand by what I said by him, I haven't changed my opinion. The who is a parent who had a daughter in a program and she turned out okay. Maybe it was the best thing for her but that doesn’t mean all kids will do okay. Thats what really sticks in my crawl.
Yes, but I still agree with your suggestion that we try to have a screening process for new posters. I don’t think thewho would pass the test because he is such a dip shit but it would make for better conversations. The takedown video didn’t explain why that person was being restrained so I cannot judge whether or not it was warranted. I like the 1980’s style cell phone in the back pocket of the staff member, reminds me of Starsky and Hutch. Anyone remember that show?
Post by: Aghast on September 16, 2008, 10:56:48 AM
Quote from: "New Guest"
Quote from: "Aghast"Ignore thewho using my log in - I stand by what I said by him, I haven't changed my opinion. The who is a parent who had a daughter in a program and she turned out okay. Maybe it was the best thing for her but that doesn’t mean all kids will do okay. Thats what really sticks in my crawl.
Yes, but I still agree with your suggestion that we try to have a screening process for new posters. I don’t think thewho would pass the test because he is such a dip shit but it would make for better conversations. The takedown video didn’t explain why that person was being restrained so I cannot judge whether or not it was warranted. I like the 1980’s style cell phone in the back pocket of the staff member, reminds me of Starsky and Hutch. Anyone remember that show?
No face down restraint is warranted. Quit posing as other users who. Quit trying to imply that the restraint is ancient history, you know from the recent deaths of kids like Martin Anderson the practice is still current. You're a fiend and a ghoul who profits from misery. Your own daughter despises you for what you did to her at ASR. She wouldn't be broken down and molded into what you willed. You couldn't accept the money you spent was for nothing and as revenge you started working for the industry.
How do I know? Be careful who you correspond with.
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2008, 11:05:22 AM
Quote from: "Aghast"
Quote from: "New Guest"Quote from: "Aghast"Ignore thewho using my log in - I stand by what I said by him, I haven't changed my opinion. The who is a parent who had a daughter in a program and she turned out okay. Maybe it was the best thing for her but that doesn’t mean all kids will do okay. Thats what really sticks in my crawl.
Yes, but I still agree with your suggestion that we try to have a screening process for new posters. I don’t think thewho would pass the test because he is such a dip shit but it would make for better conversations. The takedown video didn’t explain why that person was being restrained so I cannot judge whether or not it was warranted. I like the 1980’s style cell phone in the back pocket of the staff member, reminds me of Starsky and Hutch. Anyone remember that show?
No face down restraint is warranted.
Where does it say that? Oh, thats right, I forgot, we are all expressing our opinions. Yes, I agree, face down is a little rough, but the floor was carpeted and maybe the kid was given the option to be forced down on his ass or face. Maybe that should be made part of the procedure so atleast the kids have some control and an option. What do others think?
Post by: Aghast on September 16, 2008, 11:17:16 AM
Quote from: "New Guest"
Where does it say that? Oh, thats right, I forgot, we are all expressing our opinions. Yes, I agree, face down is a little rough, but the floor was carpeted and maybe the kid was given the option to be forced down on his ass or face. Maybe that should be made part of the procedure so atleast the kids have some control and an option. What do others think?
Wow new guest, you suddenly have some knowledge of programs and an opinion? Bitterness even before you put your kid in a program? :bs: :D C'mon who. You love restraints, it's tough love. The weak die, the strong survive. Isn't that what you said? Maybe your friends here should know more about you and your beliefs. You haven't been very forthcoming from what I have been reading.
Post by: Che Gookin on September 16, 2008, 11:38:47 AM
The inherent problem with that video is the arm holds more than the face down position. The kid's arms were racked back into such a position the potential for dislocating both of his shoulders exists should he struggle.
Hence its not a restraint. It is a submission hold.. A restraint by nature is designed to safely contain the person to prevent harm to him/her self or another. Contain... Not put them in the position where if they struggle they hurt themselves more.
Poor form on the staffers part.. tsk tsk.
:jerry:
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2008, 11:43:54 AM
Quote from: "New Guest"
Where does it say that? Oh, thats right, I forgot, we are all expressing our opinions. Yes, I agree, face down is a little rough, but the floor was carpeted and maybe the kid was given the option to be forced down on his ass or face. Maybe that should be made part of the procedure so atleast the kids have some control and an option. What do others think?
Yes, it is my opinion, but everyone should think the same way on this one, don’t you agree? I tend to agree with you that the child should be given the option to go down on his/her face or ass. But if you think about it the whole reason the kid is being restrained is because he wasn’t listening in the first place and was probably given several options before he/she forced the situation to escalate to that point. The good news is we haven’t seen anymore videos out there of this kid being restrained or put down so it seems he and the staff came to some kind of agreement. So there were positive results its just too bad it had to get to the point it did.
Post by: Che Gookin on September 16, 2008, 11:46:43 AM
Post by: Aghast on September 16, 2008, 11:51:17 AM
Quote from: "thewho"
Quote from: "thewho"Where does it say that? Oh, thats right, I forgot, we are all expressing our opinions. Yes, I agree, face down is a little rough, but the floor was carpeted and maybe the kid was given the option to be forced down on his ass or face. Maybe that should be made part of the procedure so atleast the kids have some control and an option. What do others think?
Yes, it is my opinion, but everyone should think the same way on this one, don’t you agree? I tend to agree with you that the child should be given the option to go down on his/her face or ass. But if you think about it the whole reason the kid is being restrained is because he wasn’t listening in the first place and was probably given several options before he/she forced the situation to escalate to that point. The good news is we haven’t seen anymore videos out there of this kid being restrained or put down so it seems he and the staff came to some kind of agreement. So there were positive results its just too bad it had to get to the point it did.
Still wishing you were me? I'm logged in who. You are playing who games again. My opinions are plainly stated under my user name. Why are you hiding? Still scared?
Address Che Gookin's comments. He is much more informed about restraints than you who. He's had experience performing them.
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 11:51:46 AM
Quote from: "TheWho in disguise"
The good news is we haven’t seen anymore videos out there of this kid being restrained or put down so it seems he and the staff came to some kind of agreement. So there were positive results its just too bad it had to get to the point it did.
Another video for you sadistic pleasure, TheWho.
http://www.heal-online.org/WristLock.mpg (http://www.heal-online.org/WristLock.mpg)
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 11:52:31 AM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Having performed over 300 or more restraints I think I'm uniquely qualified to say, "Face up... Ass down.. face down.. ass up.. it makes no difference. No restraint technique is safe and the very moment you lay your hands on a person you assume the risk of injuring or killing them."
The inherent problem with that video is the arm holds more than the face down position. The kid's arms were racked back into such a position the potential for dislocating both of his shoulders exists should he struggle.
Hence its not a restraint. It is a submission hold.. A restraint by nature is designed to safely contain the person to prevent harm to him/her self or another. Contain... Not put them in the position where if they struggle they hurt themselves more.
Poor form on the staffers part.. tsk tsk.
So what would you call the manoeuvres described by Hrt2hrt on the facility Q and A?
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2008, 11:53:23 AM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
I see.. battering the child with a pain assisted restraint promoted fear within him therefore making him scared of the pain of sassing the staff/goons again. Brilliant.. if only that really worked. I'd say the reason why we never saw another one of those is brat camp started getting a bit smarter about what kind of kid they took and began selectively editing the footage..
Are you kidding me? The take downs are what keeps the ratings up. Who wants to see a bunch of losers sitting around the camp fire singing "Kim by Ya" for an hour every week. Bring on the confrontation!! Edit out the camp fire scenes and get more kids with spunk!! Poke them with sharp sticks so they act out for the camera crew
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 11:56:00 AM
Does he take a sick pleasure in reading about children's pain?
Does he enjoy trolling abuse survivors for kicks?
Is he mentally retarded, on disability, and has nothing else to do in his half way house?
The possibilities are endless! :bs:
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 12:01:27 PM
Watch this video and take note of what is occuring and how it makes you feel.
Now, take note at how TheWho reacts:
Quote from: "TheWho"
The take downs are what keeps the ratings up. Who wants to see a bunch of losers sitting around the camp fire singing "Kim by Ya" for an hour every week. Bring on the confrontation!! It seems she and the staff came to some kind of agreement. So there were positive results
Only a textbook sociopath can react in this way without having any sympathy for a girl being hurt on purpose.
When this anonymous program pusher TheWho talks about "positive results", parents now know what he is talking about. HIDE YOUR KIDS FROM THEWHO!
Post by: Che Gookin on September 16, 2008, 12:02:17 PM
Quote from: "aghast."
Quote from: "Che Gookin"I see.. battering the child with a pain assisted restraint promoted fear within him therefore making him scared of the pain of sassing the staff/goons again. Brilliant.. if only that really worked. I'd say the reason why we never saw another one of those is brat camp started getting a bit smarter about what kind of kid they took and began selectively editing the footage..
Are you kidding me? The take downs are what keeps the ratings up. Who wants to see a bunch of losers sitting around the camp fire singing "Kim by Ya" for an hour every week. Bring on the confrontation!! Edit out the camp fire scenes and get more kids with spunk!! Poke them with sharp sticks so they act out for the camera crew
Ahh.. I see where you are coming from now. Took me a minute.. blame it on sleep deprivation. Sort of like the Jerry Springer show.. no one watched it for the witty banter, philosophical debate, and in depth reporting.
Kids with more spunk you want eh? Don't use gangbangers then.. They are all afraid of the woods at night and will stop acting like idiots as soon as the sun goes down.
Post by: Aghast on September 16, 2008, 12:03:09 PM
"Who" has a very close tie to ASPEN, but the ties run into NATSAP and a very, very close relationship with a well known pro TTI website.
Post by: Che Gookin on September 16, 2008, 12:05:58 PM
Post by: ThéWho on September 16, 2008, 12:16:43 PM
...
If anyone wants to talk privately please email me at
[email protected]
Post by: Che Gookin on September 16, 2008, 12:38:13 PM
Quote from: "ThéWho"
Ha,Ha,Ha...Very funny locking my old account. Just because I think it's entertaining to watch a girl get sit on and I am banned? What happened to free speech on fornits?
...
If anyone wants to talk privately please email me at
[email protected]
Lol.. nice try.
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 12:40:18 PM
Quote from: "Aghast"
Truth about theWho: His daughter does indeed despise him post ASR. It was an awful time for her and she left by playing the ASR game. When she left she shunned her father. He even had the nerve to ask her to post "something positive" about ASR on Fornits. She refused angrily. The threats of disowning her and cutting her out of any will didn't work.
"Who" has a very close tie to ASPEN, but the ties run into NATSAP and a very, very close relationship with a well known pro TTI website.
But this? This, I must confess, is interesting.
;D
Post by: Che Gookin on September 16, 2008, 12:43:59 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 12:49:16 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on September 16, 2008, 12:49:51 PM
Quote from: "ThéWho"
Ha,Ha,Ha...Very funny locking my old account. Just because I think it's entertaining to watch a girl get sit on and I am banned? What happened to free speech on fornits?
...
If anyone wants to talk privately please email me at
[email protected]
There is free speech on fornits. We're utilizing our free speech to tell you to shut the fuck up.
You think a child being abused is funny? What's wrong with you Cindy? Did your Daddy over at Bain Capital not play catch with you often enough?
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 12:50:51 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Quote from: "ThéWho"Ha,Ha,Ha...Very funny locking my old account. Just because I think it's entertaining to watch a girl get sit on and I am banned? What happened to free speech on fornits?
...
If anyone wants to talk privately please email me at
[email protected]
There is free speech on fornits. We're utilizing our free speech to tell you to shut the fuck up.
You think a child being abused is funny? What's wrong with you Cindy? Did your Daddy over at Bain Capital not play catch with you often enough?
RB......it ain't him.
Post by: ThéWho on September 16, 2008, 01:08:07 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
There is free speech on fornits. We're utilizing our free speech to tell you to shut the fuck up.
You think a child being abused is funny? What's wrong with you Cindy? Did your Daddy over at Bain Capital not play catch with you often enough?
I never said funny. I said that it had a positive outcome. What I find funny is that the overly sensitive people here on fornits would see that as abusive, since I did that to my daughter all the time at home and she turned out okay... another positive result.
...
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2008, 01:13:01 PM
Quote from: "Possibilities"
Now that it's clear to everyone TheWho is not here to have an honest discussion, what do you think his reasons for spending all day everyday on fornits are?
Does he take a sick pleasure in reading about children's pain?
Does he enjoy trolling abuse survivors for kicks?
Is he mentally retarded, on disability, and has nothing else to do in his half way house?
The possibilities are endless! :bs:
You give the guy too much credit. Most of the posts here are not mr.thewho's. I love reading this shit and personally think he is a walking rim job but everyone here looks like idiots. He predicted to psy that the trolls would come out a couple of days ago and now look a this shitfest. We even have a "thewho" imitator who is logged in as him.
I think we were talking about the takedown video and chegookin said he performed like 300 of them. So I would like to ask him if he remembers about how many kids that would be. 300? or did each kid manage to get several take downs?
Post by: ThéWho on September 16, 2008, 01:16:21 PM
Quote from: "aghast."
You give the guy too much credit. Most of the posts here are not mr.thewho's. I love reading this shit and personally think he is a walking rim job but everyone here looks like idiots. He predicted to psy that the trolls would come out a couple of days ago and now look a this shitfest. We even have a "thewho" imitator who is logged in as him.
I think we were talking about the takedown video and chegookin said he performed like 300 of them. So I would like to ask him if he remembers about how many kids that would be. 300? or did each kid manage to get several take downs?
There is no need to call me mister, but I appreciate the intent. It's not nice to call me a rim job, but I know you are very angry. My daughter was also very angry when she came home. She called me all sorts of names and so I just sent her back to the program. If I were your parent, that is what I would do with you.
We were talking about the video until you rudely interrupted. That video showed what happens in a program if you talk back. Parents can do this same thing at home, but most are too weak willed.
...
Post by: Aghast on September 16, 2008, 01:23:05 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Possibilities"Now that it's clear to everyone TheWho is not here to have an honest discussion, what do you think his reasons for spending all day everyday on fornits are?
Does he take a sick pleasure in reading about children's pain?
Does he enjoy trolling abuse survivors for kicks?
Is he mentally retarded, on disability, and has nothing else to do in his half way house?
The possibilities are endless! :bs:
You give the guy too much credit. Most of the posts here are not mr.thewho's. I love reading this shit and personally think he is a walking rim job but everyone here looks like idiots. He predicted to psy that the trolls would come out a couple of days ago and now look a this shitfest. We even have a "thewho" imitator who is logged in as him.
I think we were talking about the takedown video and chegookin said he performed like 300 of them. So I would like to ask him if he remembers about how many kids that would be. 300? or did each kid manage to get several take downs?
TheWho again. Why are you insisting on using my log in name?
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2008, 01:27:34 PM
Post by: psy on September 16, 2008, 01:32:00 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
after watching the takedown video it occured to me that this rarely happens, I mean with utube and all we would be seeing this all over the place
Um. How many programs you know allow video cameras and unmonitored access to the internet?
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 01:32:28 PM
Quote from: "aghast."
Dam, I love this place!!! It use to be so boring with everyone so serious about programs. At least now people have started to loosen up a little. Maybe it is because everyone is finally realizing they are not as evil as we all thought. I mean shit dont get me wrong I would never place my kid in one unless they really needed it or a doctor prescribed it but after watching the takedown video it occured to me that this rarely happens, I mean with utube and all we would be seeing this all over the place, but we dont, its always that same kid from the 1980's getting put to the carpet, so these restraints are not as common as I once thought.
Hmmmmmm. TheNewWho with the little accent mark over the "e". The new Aghast. with the unnecessary period at the end of the name.
What to make of all this. What to make of it. Hrmmmmmm.
Idjits.
::)
Post by: ThéWho on September 16, 2008, 01:33:47 PM
Quote from: "aghast."
Dam, I love this place!!! It use to be so boring with everyone so serious about programs.
I have worked hard to bring an atmosphere of fun to fornits. Everyone sees abuse as this serious topic, I think abuse can be fun.
Quote
At least now people have started to loosen up a little. Maybe it is because everyone is finally realizing they are not as evil as we all thought.
I have always known this. A hundred years ago you didn't have kids doing drugs and stealing carriages because you were allowed to hit them if you wanted. I know it's not politically correct now to say that, but you can't argue with what works.
Quote
I mean shit dont get me wrong I would never place my kid in one unless they really needed it or a doctor prescribed it but after watching the takedown video it occured to me that this rarely happens, I mean with utube and all we would be seeing this all over the place, but we dont, its always that same kid from the 1980's getting put to the carpet, so these restraints are not as common as I once thought.
That video inspires me that the staff are doing their jobs. I always felt like I was paying them way too much money for not providing me with results. Parents pay for action, not for staff who aren't willing to do the job. Overall I'm very satisfied with this video clip.
...
Post by: psy on September 16, 2008, 01:35:24 PM
http://www.heal-online.org/Takedown.mpg (http://www.heal-online.org/Takedown.mpg)
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2008, 01:41:12 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "TheWho"after watching the takedown video it occured to me that this rarely happens, I mean with utube and all we would be seeing this all over the place
Um. How many programs you know allow video cameras and unmonitored access to the internet?
How did you do that? You quoted me but it shows thewho as saying it. That wasnt a quote I took from him either. Can anyone do that or do you work for fornits?
Post by: psy on September 16, 2008, 01:43:52 PM
Quote from: "asshole"
Anybody can do it. Just change the name in the quote tags.Quote from: "psy"Quote from: "TheWho"after watching the takedown video it occured to me that this rarely happens, I mean with utube and all we would be seeing this all over the place
Um. How many programs you know allow video cameras and unmonitored access to the internet?
How did you do that? You quoted me but it shows thewho as saying it. That wasnt a quote I took from him either. Can anyone do that or do you work for fornits?
Post by: Aghast on September 16, 2008, 01:45:37 PM
Post by: ThéWho on September 16, 2008, 01:47:40 PM
Quote from: "aghast."
Quote from: "psy"Quote from: "TheWho"after watching the takedown video it occured to me that this rarely happens, I mean with utube and all we would be seeing this all over the place
Um. How many programs you know allow video cameras and unmonitored access to the internet?
How did you do that? You quoted me but it shows thewho as saying it. That wasnt a quote I took from him either. Can anyone do that or do you work for fornits?
You will find in your time on this forum that many people lie. These people constantly come on this website and talk about how they were brainwashed, abused, tortured, sexually molested, maltreated and malnourished, blah, blah, blah. The incessant whining really gets to me. The thing is though, all of their stories are very similar, and so that is a dead giveaway that they tell the new people what to say.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 01:49:56 PM
Quote from: "ThéWho"
I have worked hard to bring an atmosphere of fun to fornits. Everyone sees abuse as this serious topic, I think abuse can be fun.
Notice the little accent mark above the "e" on TheWho's new moniker? Don't make things worse by actually DOING what he's accused us of.
Idjits.
::)
Post by: psy on September 16, 2008, 01:50:17 PM
Quote from: "Aghast"
A miserable sick troll named...theWho. He lives here in MA because of the law regarding same sex marriage.Please don't blame gays for this. They're blamed for one plague as it is.
Post by: ThéWho on September 16, 2008, 01:52:27 PM
Quote from: "Facepalm"
Idjits.
The name calling is not necessary.
...
Post by: Aghast on September 16, 2008, 01:55:10 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Aghast"A miserable sick troll named...theWho. He lives here in MA because of the law regarding same sex marriage.Please don't blame gays for this. They're blamed for one plague as it is.
I certainly do not blame the gays! "Who", I'll see you when I get home sweetheart. You are my mean Mr. Manlove.
Kisses.
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 01:55:36 PM
Quote from: "ThéWho"
Quote from: "Facepalm"
Idjits.
The name calling is not necessary.
...
Don't make things worse by actually DOING what he's accused us of. IDJIT.
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2008, 01:56:24 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Aghast"A miserable sick troll named...theWho. He lives here in MA because of the law regarding same sex marriage.Please don't blame gays for this. They're blamed for one plague as it is.
I never said that!! why do you keep putting my name in there like that. I am bi-sexual, well not really, but my roommate was. So I dont find this funny at all.
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 01:57:25 PM
Quote from: "Facepalm"
Don't make things worse by actually DOING what he's accused us of.
I don't remember throwing my lot in with yours. Who is us?
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 02:01:45 PM
Quote from: "Plurals"
Quote from: "Facepalm"Don't make things worse by actually DOING what he's accused us of.
I don't remember throwing my lot in with yours. Who is us?
Fornits. You know what I meant.
Awww, is someone lonely? You sure are crying out for attention today.
Post by: ThéWho on September 16, 2008, 02:05:13 PM
...
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2008, 02:05:50 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "psy"Quote from: "Aghast"A miserable sick troll named...theWho. He lives here in MA because of the law regarding same sex marriage.Please don't blame gays for this. They're blamed for one plague as it is.
I never said that!! why do you keep putting my name in there like that. I am bi-sexual, well not really, but my roommate was. So I dont find this funny at all.
I said that!! I am not your fucking roommate. You really suck for bringing all this up and hijacking my name like this. You logged in and now I cant use it. The is no reason to use the gay card here. You know "aghast" is the special sound I make so you took it away to be mean. I will always resent you until you abandon logging in or turn over the password to me. I would have atleast gotten an avatar!
Post by: ThéWho on September 16, 2008, 02:11:01 PM
Quote from: "aghast."
I said that!! I am not your fucking roommate. You really suck for bringing all this up and hijacking my name like this. You logged in and now I cant use it. The is no reason to use the gay card here. You know "aghast" is the special sound I make so you took it away to be mean. I will always resent you until you abandon logging in or turn over the password to me. I would have atleast gotten an avatar!
Don't be so quick to judge others. The bible is clear that homosexuality is a sin, and it's still possible to love the sinner while condemning the sin. One of my daughters issues was experimenting with lesbian ideas, which was addressed and cured thank god.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 02:12:15 PM
Quote from: "ThéWho"
All of this fighting among guests, this thread is really getting off track. Remember we were talking about the video, and how it showed how programs can end in positive results. Parents are so grateful for programs they even send them from England which proves programs work. If you guests want to fight, go do it somewhere else.
...
Are we having fun yet?
God! How pathetic does one's life have to be that one would want to impersonate TheWho?
Post by: Che Gookin on September 16, 2008, 02:14:46 PM
Quote from: "aghast."
Quote from: "Possibilities"Now that it's clear to everyone TheWho is not here to have an honest discussion, what do you think his reasons for spending all day everyday on fornits are?
Does he take a sick pleasure in reading about children's pain?
Does he enjoy trolling abuse survivors for kicks?
Is he mentally retarded, on disability, and has nothing else to do in his half way house?
The possibilities are endless! :bs:
I think we were talking about the takedown video and chegookin said he performed like 300 of them. So I would like to ask him if he remembers about how many kids that would be. 300? or did each kid manage to get several take downs?
each kid got several..
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 02:15:17 PM
Quote from: "ThéWho"
Quote from: "aghast."I said that!! I am not your fucking roommate. You really suck for bringing all this up and hijacking my name like this. You logged in and now I cant use it. The is no reason to use the gay card here. You know "aghast" is the special sound I make so you took it away to be mean. I will always resent you until you abandon logging in or turn over the password to me. I would have atleast gotten an avatar!
Don't be so quick to judge others. The bible is clear that homosexuality is a sin, and it's still possible to love the sinner while condemning the sin. One of my daughters issues was experimenting with lesbian ideas, which was addressed and cured thank god.
...
TheWho did liberally fondle my junk at a club one night and asked if I would handle his hooter. I told him I would not jock his johnson and he was very upset.
Post by: ThéWho on September 16, 2008, 02:19:13 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
TheWho did liberally fondle my junk at a club one night and asked if I would handle his hooter. I told him I would not jock his johnson and he was very upset.
This is how you get treated at fornits is you think programs are great. Take note all you parents reading this forum, if you want to have your daughter cured of lesbian and enjoy the feeling of ordering two woman to tackle her and hold her arms up behind her back until she screams , then steer clear of making these feelings known on this forum. You will become an outcast just like me.
...
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2008, 02:22:46 PM
Quote from: "ThéWho"
Well, I guess you have a point. I get really mixed up sometimes when I am with my roommate. But I used "aghast" and he went ahead and logged in under that name and now I cant use it. Its a sound he knows that only I make. I think he is mocking me with his posts and I dont think it is clever at all. it is hurtfulQuote from: "aghast."I said that!! I am not your fucking roommate. You really suck for bringing all this up and hijacking my name like this. You logged in and now I cant use it. The is no reason to use the gay card here. You know "aghast" is the special sound I make so you took it away to be mean. I will always resent you until you abandon logging in or turn over the password to me. I would have atleast gotten an avatar!
Don't be so quick to judge others. The bible is clear that homosexuality is a sin, and it's still possible to love the sinner while condemning the sin. One of my daughters issues was experimenting with lesbian ideas, which was addressed and cured thank god.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 02:26:15 PM
Quote from: "ThéWho"
This is how you get treated at fornits is you think programs are great. Take note all you parents reading this forum, if you want to have your daughter cured of lesbian and enjoy the feeling of ordering two woman to tackle her and hold her arms up behind her back until she screams , then steer clear of making these feelings known on this forum. You will become an outcast just like me.
...
No. It's mostly because you are an old, smelly and socially unacceptable sadist. The real who is anyway. You be funny.
Post by: ThéWho on September 16, 2008, 02:26:36 PM
Quote from: "aghast."
Well, I guess you have a point. I get really mixed up sometimes when I am with my roommate. But I used "aghast" and he went ahead and logged in under that name and now I cant use it. Its a sound he knows that only I make. I think he is mocking me with his posts and I dont think it is clever at all. it is hurtful
You'll get it over it. Don't come on fornits looking for sympathy though, because this board is full of harsh critics. When I laugh at their stories about being abused, they call me insensitive. You can't win with these people.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "ThéWho"
This is how you get treated at fornits is you think programs are great. Take note all you parents reading this forum, if you want to have your daughter cured of lesbian and enjoy the feeling of ordering two woman to tackle her and hold her arms up behind her back until she screams , then steer clear of making these feelings known on this forum. You will become an outcast just like me.
...
You be funny.
Really? Gawd, I just find it annoying and a complete waste of time. Not to mention it will provide the real Who with all the ammo he needs to accuse Fornits of impersonating him and lying about things he actually HAS said.
But you go ahead and have fun with it. Really.
Post by: ThéWho on September 16, 2008, 02:36:02 PM
But when my friend handed me the marijuana cigarette I passed it back and said I couldn't' because I had lung sickness. I felt bad about lying to my friend, but I would of felt worse about lying to my dad.
...
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2008, 03:05:13 PM
Post by: ThéWho on September 16, 2008, 03:11:00 PM
Quote from: "aghast."
Why do I keep getting hit with the anti-gay subliminal messages on fornits? The first thing I see when I get to fornits are people checking off Fruitcake ,then anal probe, then “Don’t be an idiot”. Is this designed to send the message that all gays are idiots? I don’t think this is right and should be stopped.
Many posters think there is something wrong with trying to help your homosexual child come to their senses. They don't realize as parents we are only helping them to be normal before society and the eyes of god. There are many helpful programs that will help children realize their mistaken choice to be with he same sex, absolve them of their sins and convince them to reconsider their sexual identity.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 04:08:33 PM
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2008, 05:19:11 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on September 16, 2008, 05:26:53 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Wow, looks like someone was having fun!!! Ha,Ha,Ha, 6 pages of spam I am guessing and I have a clone now? Let me go back and catch up.
Someone sure has Cindy.
Is it your beliefe that 60 kids die violent deaths in public schools per week?
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2008, 06:30:23 PM
A good example was the show “Brat Camp”. They struggled week to week to find enough footage to keep the Jerry Springer mentality audience interested and even failed at that.
Bottom line is if your kid acts out to the point where they need restrain, they run away, are physically or verbally abusive towards staff then the schools don’t want them and they cut them loose back to their families or recommend other residential treatment options.
...
Post by: RobertBruce on September 16, 2008, 06:38:53 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
A central theme which became dominant today was “takedowns”. I found this interesting because we are seeing less and less of these used, at least in the therapeutic portion of the industry (TBS’s). Most of these types of kids, that would act out to the point of needing restraint, are not being accepted into the better programs today. Schools like ASR are scrambling to find open beds, often have a long waiting list and are not accepting kids who have any history of violence, use of knives etc. Many of the products (models) being developed and marketed today cater to kids who are heading for college and are in need of a little help to get thru a rough patch.
A good example was the show “Brat Camp”. They struggled week to week to find enough footage to keep the Jerry Springer mentality audience interested and even failed at that.
Bottom line is if your kid acts out to the point where they need restrain, they run away, are physically or verbally abusive towards staff then the schools don’t want them and they cut them loose back to their families or recommend other residential treatment options.
...
And your basis for the above comment is........?
Also Cindy is it your belife that 60 kids die violent deaths per week in public schools?
Why do you have so much trouble answering this simple question? Afraid to stand behind your belifes?
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2008, 06:57:41 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
A central theme which became dominant today was “takedowns”. I found this interesting because we are seeing less and less of these used, at least in the therapeutic portion of the industry (TBS’s). Most of these types of kids, that would act out to the point of needing restraint, are not being accepted into the better programs today. Schools like ASR are scrambling to find open beds, often have a long waiting list and are not accepting kids who have any history of violence, use of knives etc. Many of the products (models) being developed and marketed today cater to kids who are heading for college and are in need of a little help to get thru a rough patch.
A good example was the show “Brat Camp”. They struggled week to week to find enough footage to keep the Jerry Springer mentality audience interested and even failed at that.
Bottom line is if your kid acts out to the point where they need restrain, they run away, are physically or verbally abusive towards staff then the schools don’t want them and they cut them loose back to their families or recommend other residential treatment options.
...
Who, you are missing the point. Where do you think the kids go after they are cut loose from these top programs? I have the answer. They are sent to other programs which are more abusive. So your programs dont help these kids at all. They failed!!
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2008, 07:11:08 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Who, you are missing the point. Where do you think the kids go after they are cut loose from these top programs? I have the answer. They are sent to other programs which are more abusive. So your programs dont help these kids at all. They failed!!
Well first of all they keep the top programs cleansed of these types of kids and are able to focus on kids who are willing to get help. Secondly the kids who are kicked out may move on to a more restrictive program where they can be better served. So yes maybe they failed in their first program but they have learned the lesson that if they screw up again it can get even tougher for them so they may be willing to start working on the issues. This way they feel like they have a little control over their destiny.
A plus for the industry is the better programs get a break on their insurance rates if they don’t subject their patients to restraints of any kind (or are not part of the procedures). History has shown that restraints can lead to lawsuits, training is expensive and needs to be documented and followed up on and each restraint requires paperwork to be filled out. If you happened to view the video on the restraint you can see that it required 2 people to prepare and implement the takedown. You are looking at ten times the man hours that should be required to care for this child. Each staff should be able to oversee several children and if 2 staff people are pulled off for one takedown over the period over several months this could become expensive and also risky.
So cutting back on restraints is a win for everyone.
...
Post by: RobertBruce on September 16, 2008, 07:18:08 PM
Again Cindy is it your belief that 60 kids die violent deaths per week in public schools?
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 07:18:57 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Well first of all they keep the top programs cleansed of these types of kids and are able to focus on kids who are willing to get help.
[Citation needed]
Quote
Secondly the kids who are kicked out may move on to a more restrictive program where they can be better served.
Elaboration needed. What is your idea of one of the 'more restrictive programs'?? Not that I really expect you to answer. You've been asked before to name just ONE so called "good program". You can't, so I really don't expect a definitive answer to this either, but I thought I might give it a shot.
Quote
So yes maybe they failed in their first program but they have learned the lesson that if they screw up again it can get even tougher for them so they may be willing to start working on the issues. This way they feel like they have a little control over their destiny.
Do you maintain that it is 'good' or 'therapeutic' for kids to feel like they have little control over their own destiny???
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2008, 07:56:13 PM
Quote
[Citation needed]
Like ASR
Quote
Elaboration needed. What is your idea of one of the 'more restrictive programs'?? Not that I really expect you to answer. You've been asked before to name just ONE so called "good program". You can't, so I really don't expect a definitive answer to this either, but I thought I might give it a shot.
I don’t have any off hand.. maybe a hyde type place.
Quote
Do you maintain that it is 'good' or 'therapeutic' for kids to feel like they have little control over their own destiny???
Definitely, kids respond better if they know they have a choice or are part of the decision process. Whether it be short term or long. Giving children choices of where they would like to sit in the cafeteria. If they would like to complete the program here or leave for a more restrictive one. Would they like to be taken down onto their face or ass (as someone mentioned earlier). In our household we always gave the children a choices.. would you like to take a bath before we read or after... this way the child takes a bath but they are also part of the decision process of when it occurs. This brings them into the family process more.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 08:03:57 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Like ASR
You can't be serious. Do you even remember the Aspen threads??? Holy shit dude!! Aspen is one of the WORST!
Quote
I don’t have any off hand.. maybe a hyde type place.
Again, you can't be serious. Have you even read Ursus' posts about Hyde??????????/
Quote
Do you maintain that it is 'good' or 'therapeutic' for kids to feel like they have little control over their own destiny???
Quote from: "TheWho"
Definitely, kids respond better if they know they have a choice or are part of the decision process. Whether it be short term or long. Giving children choices of where they would like to sit in the cafeteria. If they would like to complete the program here or leave for a more restrictive one. Would they like to be taken down onto their face or ass (as someone mentioned earlier). In our household we always gave the children a choices.. would you like to take a bath before we read or after... this way the child takes a bath but they are also part of the decision process of when it occurs.
There's a big difference between taking a bath before or after bedtime stories and the, ahem, "choice" (read......Exit Plan.....either you do as we say, or you're seriously fucked) between two abusive facilities. Surely even someone as devoid of human compassion as you can see that?
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2008, 08:27:54 PM
Quote
You can't be serious. Do you even remember the Aspen threads??? Holy shit dude!! Aspen is one of the WORST!
Everyone has their own standards or Benchmark. What would you consider one of the better programs?
Quote
Again, you can't be serious. Have you even read Ursus' posts about Hyde??????????/
So, in place of hyde, which would you pick as a step down from your first pick?
Quote
There's a big difference between taking a bath before or after bedtime stories and the, ahem, "choice" (read......Exit Plan.....either you do as we say, or you're seriously fucked) between two abusive facilities. Surely even someone as devoid of human compassion as you can see that?
I think you missed the point. Thats why you probably would not be successful at this or struggle with parenting in general (if you haven’t already). If they had a choice between two abusive facilities they wouldn’t care or respond to your requests. But if they were in a non abusive facility and knew if they blew it there they would have to go to one which is more restrictive then maybe they would cooperate a little more. Do you see what I mean? Your method of bullying someone into submission isn’t going to work. Those days are gone and proven ineffective.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 08:42:59 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Everyone has their own standards or Benchmark. What would you consider one of the better programs?
I'm not the one claiming there ARE decent programs out there. You are, consequently, the burden of proof is on you. Again, surely even YOU can see that, right?
Quote
So, in place of hyde, which would you pick as a step down from your first pick?
I'm not the one claiming there ARE decent programs out there. You are, consequently, the burden of proof is on you. Again, surely even YOU can see that, right?
And have you read Ursus' posts about Hyde? I'm asking again because you ignored the question.
Quote
I think you missed the point. Thats why you probably would not be successful at this or struggle with parenting in general (if you haven’t already). If they had a choice between two abusive facilities they wouldn’t care or respond to your requests. But if they were in a non abusive facility and knew if they blew it there they would have to go to one which is more restrictive then maybe they would cooperate a little more. Do you see what I mean? Your method of bullying someone into submission isn’t going to work. Those days are gone and proven ineffective.
I realise that you amuse yourself by twisting and turning things directly 180 degrees, but not many of us here fall for it. The programs that do not have due process, that utilize the Synanon based 'confrontational therapy' (i.e. if you don't behave, we'll send you someplace worse), use supposed "positive peer pressure" (i.e. conform or you won't progress at all), employ LGAT type 'seminars' and similar techniques (which have been proven over and over again to be extremely detrimental, as have the 'wilderness type' and "emotional growth type" "schools").......then they are INHERENTLY abusive. They can't escape it. It's systematic and built into the methodology. Spin it any way you need to (again, trying to assuage your guilt...understandable, but transparent), but those of us who have been through it, unlike you, understand exactly how dangerous it is.
Post by: Anonymous on September 16, 2008, 08:50:03 PM
Post by: TheWho on September 16, 2008, 08:55:57 PM
Quote
I'm not the one claiming there ARE decent programs out there. You are, consequently, the burden of proof is on you. Again, surely even YOU can see that, right?I can agree here, I believe. So until someone can provide a better program we will keep ASR at the top.
Quote
I'm not the one claiming there ARE decent programs out there. You are, consequently, the burden of proof is on you. Again, surely even YOU can see that, right?Yes, I have, that is why I choose it to be a step below.
And have you read Ursus' posts about Hyde? I'm asking again because you ignored the question.
Quote
I realise that you amuse yourself by twisting and turning things directly 180 degrees, but not many of us here fall for it. The programs that do not have due process, that utilize the Synanon based 'confrontational therapy' (i.e. if you don't behave, we'll send you someplace worse), use supposed "positive peer pressure" (i.e. conform or you won't progress at all), employ LGAT type 'seminars' and similar techniques (which have been proven over and over again to be extremely detrimental, as have the 'wilderness type' and "emotional growth type" "schools").......then they are INHERENTLY abusive. They can't escape it. It's systematic and built into the methodology. Spin it any way you need to (again, trying to assuage your guilt...understandable, but transparent), but those of us who have been through it, unlike you, understand exactly how dangerous it is.
I have to disagree with you on this point. I think giving the child a choice empowers them and makes them more part of the decision process. There is no twisting or turning we are talking about giving choices. You are trying to redirect and derail by talking about various types of therapy, large corporation seminars etc. These are all good discussions but I believe we can both agree that giving the child a choice helps to de-escalate an uncomfortable situation vs giving ultimatums or bullying. You will see that this is more effective by studying the better programs.
...
Post by: RobertBruce on September 16, 2008, 09:53:30 PM
It's semantics. A choice made under duress is a threat, nothing more.
Cindy is it your belief that 60 kids per week die violent deaths in public schools?
Post by: Froderik on September 16, 2008, 10:46:38 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 17, 2008, 02:50:09 AM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Having performed over 300 or more restraints I think I'm uniquely qualified to say, "Face up... Ass down.. face down.. ass up.. it makes no difference. No restraint technique is safe and the very moment you lay your hands on a person you assume the risk of injuring or killing them."
The inherent problem with that video is the arm holds more than the face down position. The kid's arms were racked back into such a position the potential for dislocating both of his shoulders exists should he struggle.
Hence its not a restraint. It is a submission hold.. A restraint by nature is designed to safely contain the person to prevent harm to him/her self or another. Contain... Not put them in the position where if they struggle they hurt themselves more.
Poor form on the staffers part.. tsk tsk.
:jerry:
This somewhat conflicts with the benign and humane way you phrase it in your CV. I quote:
2000 to 2002 (Job Title) -- Eckerd Youth Alternatives Camp E-Kel-Etu, Silver Springs, Florida.
Responsible for the health and safety of 10 court adjudicated young boys twenty four hours a day for a duration of five days per shift.
2002 to 2004 Master Counselor -- Three Springs Paint Rock Valley Boys, Trenton, Alabama.
Responsible for the health and safety of 10 to 12 boys for twenty four hours a day for shifts three to five days in duration. Responsible for all health and safety needs and the training of my co-counselors.
Post by: TheWho on September 17, 2008, 06:47:16 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
It's not a choice Cindy, it's a threat. They used to do it to us at Hidden Lake all the time. "Act right or we'll ship you off to three springs. You can sleep in the mud and get group take downs there as often as you like." You're playing the same game that the programs (including ASR) play in regards to court ordered kids. "He's not court ordered, the judge gave him a choice. Come here or go to jail. See it's a choice."
It's semantics. A choice made under duress is a threat, nothing more.
Cindy is it your belief that 60 kids per week die violent deaths in public schools?
It is self inflicted duress in that case. It is not the judges, schools or parents fault that the kid ends up in front of a judge. Having a choice is lucky for them. Everyone assumes the kid is always innocent.
Post by: TheWho on September 17, 2008, 07:24:28 PM
Post by: TheWho on September 17, 2008, 07:46:14 PM
I read so many times, here on fornits, that the child should have a choice in their future, but haven’t heard anyone attach any boundary conditions to it. I think we can all agree that this is the critical part. Not every child should have free reign.
...
Post by: RobertBruce on September 17, 2008, 07:59:12 PM
As to the previous poster, no one is claiming that the child isnt respondsible for any of his own actions. but clearly sending him off to be abused isnt the answer. Which is all these places do.
Post by: Guest on September 17, 2008, 08:01:18 PM
But helping the industry or harming, his presence is disturbing.
Post by: Guest on September 17, 2008, 08:05:58 PM
They are not of tender years, or infants oblivious to their surroundings and therefore, not conscious of being abducted and imprisoned.
Post by: Guest on September 17, 2008, 08:06:44 PM
They are not of tender years, or infants oblivious to their surroundings and therefore, not conscious of being abducted and imprisoned
Post by: TheWho on September 17, 2008, 08:34:41 PM
Quote from: "SDA"
Oh mi god, you are so lucky you post on this site. You are insane/an industry troll, and if you posted on my site you'd be kicked off, your ip published, and you’d be sued if you continued to post on my site after I told you leave. You're so sick...You are a murderer, a torturer... the saving grace is that you are clearly so monstrous that you inadvertently do more good than evil, simply by being your monstrous self, thereby revealing the teen torture industry for what it is.
But helping the industry or harming, his presence is disturbing.
Very open minded of you, SDA!! It is apparent you will be very successful. You should consider a screening process or filtering of all posters to ensure that everyone thinks alike and have the same opinions. When people like you create web sites it does remind me of how fortunate it is for everyone that fornits exists. I wouldn’t consider joining a web site which restricts its members or any club which restricts membership. People like you should never be put into a position to make decisions for others, you are the primary danger to yourself and those who trust you, which you will soon find out.
You should scurry back now I am sure the traffic on your site must be overwhelming by now.
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 17, 2008, 08:43:50 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
I read so many times, here on fornits, that the child should have a choice in their future, but haven’t heard anyone attach any boundary conditions to it. I think we can all agree that this is the critical part. Not every child should have free reign.
I don't think anyone here (any sane person) would advocate zero boundaries while raising a child. Respecting that they are a human being, independent of us and that they have thoughts, goals and dreams and aspirations that may be contrary to what we would like for them. Most of the more adamant pro-program parents, in my experience (which includes a decade of continuous direct exposure to a program and two decades of indirect experience and research) are the upper middle class stereotypes that need their kids to succeed at a certain type of school and become a certain type of person in order to be considered a success. I'm sure that's true to them, in their narrow view of life and what it has to offer. I deal with them all the time, both professionally and privately and it's very sad how the see the world and their own children. But what's worse is what they saddle their kids with, sometimes for a lifetime.
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 17, 2008, 08:53:50 PM
Quote from: "SDA"
Oh mi god, you are so lucky you post on this site. You are insane/an industry troll, and if you posted on my site you'd be kicked off, your ip published, and you’d be sued if you continued to post on my site after I told you leave. You're so sick...You are a murderer, a torturer... the saving grace is that you are clearly so monstrous that you inadvertently do more good than evil, simply by being your monstrous self, thereby revealing the teen torture industry for what it is.
But helping the industry or harming, his presence is disturbing.
Now that's just ridiculous. The only way to fight this is with the truth. From both sides. Free speech is a bitch sometimes, but it works.
Post by: Anonymous on September 17, 2008, 09:11:18 PM
Try to visit my site and judge me there. Tell me what you think of me in front of everyone on my site.
http://http://www.adventistchat.net/
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 17, 2008, 09:14:07 PM
Quote from: "SDA"
you are a Monster
Try to visit my site and judge me there. Tell me what you think of me in front of everyone on my site.
http://http://www.adventistchat.net/
Wait, so you're inviting someone to come on your site and fight with you, but you'll sue them if they do. Is that right?
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 17, 2008, 09:15:39 PM
Quote from: "SDA"
http://http://www.adventistchat.net/
HOLY SHIT!!!
::OMG::
Post by: TheWho on September 17, 2008, 09:28:20 PM
Quote from: "SDA"
you are a Monster
Try to visit my site and judge me there. Tell me what you think of me in front of everyone on my site.
http://http://www.adventistchat.net/
I visited your site and I must say you are not in need of a hobby. But I suggest that you skip temple this week and get laid by someone who won’t whisper bible scripture in your ear the whole time. It will be a revelation I guarantee you.
I appologize to everyone (except SDA) this is out of character
Post by: Anonymous on September 17, 2008, 09:49:02 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "SDA"you are a Monster
Try to visit my site and judge me there. Tell me what you think of me in front of everyone on my site.
http://http://www.adventistchat.net/
Wait, so you're inviting someone to come on your site and fight with you, but you'll sue them if they do. Is that right?
Yes, that is right. You are protecting this demon by allowing him to post here, you are not practicing tolerance by allowing this. If you had any moral responsibility you would all come together and send him off. If this vulgar monster comes to my site I will identify him and bring him to court.
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 17, 2008, 10:02:16 PM
Quote from: "SDA"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"Quote from: "SDA"you are a Monster
Try to visit my site and judge me there. Tell me what you think of me in front of everyone on my site.
http://http://www.adventistchat.net/
Wait, so you're inviting someone to come on your site and fight with you, but you'll sue them if they do. Is that right?
Yes, that is right. You are protecting this demon by allowing him to post here, you are not practicing tolerance by allowing this. If you had any moral responsibility you would all come together and send him off. If this vulgar monster comes to my site I will identify him and bring him to court.
Goodness! Aren't you the heroic god warrior.
What would you bring him to court for?
:jerry: (is there no ROFL guy anymore?)
Post by: Guest on September 18, 2008, 12:27:12 AM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "SDA"Try to visit my site and judge me there. Tell me what you think of me in front of everyone on my site.
http://http://www.adventistchat.net/
Wait, so you're inviting someone to come on your site and fight with you, but you'll sue them if they do. Is that right?
Yes, that is right. You are protecting this demon by allowing him to post here, you are not practicing tolerance by allowing this. If you had any moral responsibility you would all come together and send him off. If this vulgar monster comes to my site I will identify him and bring him to court.[/quote]
Memo to anne:
TheWho’s pretending to be “me,” SDA.
I’m not a 7th day Adventist. Lol. My posts are the first "sda," "ads" and "meww" Everyone else is thewho, youth murderer and torturer.
What a pathetic, unseemly piece of dishonest on Who’s behalf!
See what I mean about him/her being so transparently untrustworthy that he works against the industry?
What person could see him/her, supposedly a middle aged parent, act like that, and value any "testimony" it provides? Or find him/her, especailly since it posts here from morning untill night, anything but a warning against the madness of the cults he/she represents?
Post by: Guest on September 18, 2008, 12:38:01 AM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "SDA"you are a Monster
Try to visit my site and judge me there. Tell me what you think of me in front of everyone on my site.
http://http://www.adventistchat.net/
Wait, so you're inviting someone to come on your site and fight with you, but you'll sue them if they do. Is that right?
Yes, that is right. You are protecting this demon by allowing him to post here, you are not practicing tolerance by allowing this. If you had any moral responsibility you would all come together and send him off. If this vulgar monster comes to my site I will identify him and bring him to court.[/quote]
Goodness! Aren't you the heroic god warrior.
What would you bring him to court for?
:jerry: (is there no ROFL guy anymore?)[/quote]
Memo to anne:
TheWho’s pretending to be “me,” SDA.
I’m not a 7th day Adventist. Lol. The first SDA, ADS and meww are me, the rest are thewho
Such a pathetic, unseemly piece of dishonest on Who’s behalf!
See what I mean about him being so transparently untrustworthy that he works against the industry? Who, after watching someone who is supposedly a middle age parent act like that, and post here all day telling all who account their rape, torture, imprisonment and abduction that they are lying—, would think him anything but a representative of the most unscrupulous individuals possible, and a warning against the madness of a cult?
Post by: Guest on September 18, 2008, 12:41:04 AM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "xczv"Try to visit my site and judge me there. Tell me what you think of me in front of everyone on my site.
http://http://www.adventistchat.net/
Wait, so you're inviting someone to come on your site and fight with you, but you'll sue them if they do. Is that right?
Yes, that is right. You are protecting this demon by allowing him to post here, you are not practicing tolerance by allowing this. If you had any moral responsibility you would all come together and send him off. If this vulgar monster comes to my site I will identify him and bring him to court.[/quote]
Memo to anne:
TheWho’s pretending to be “me,” SDA.
I’m not a 7th day Adventist. Lol. My posts are the first "sda," "ads" and "meww" Everyone else is thewho, youth murderer and torturer.
What a pathetic, unseemly piece of dishonest on Who’s behalf!
See what I mean about him/her being so transparently untrustworthy that he works against the industry?
What person could see him/her, supposedly a middle aged parent, act like that, and value any "testimony" it provides? Or find him/her, especailly since it posts here from morning untill night, anything but a warning against the madness of the cults he/she represents?[/quote]
Post by: Guest on September 18, 2008, 12:45:06 AM
And who's presence here hurts out freedom of speech, not helps it.
This is true for many reasons. One is our current inability to post images. It's the who's constant posting of scat porn that instigated this change.
Now you can't post images, or even quote posts with images in them, which are like a quarter of the posts here.
Post by: Anne Bonney on September 18, 2008, 03:13:17 AM
Quote from: "SDA"
Weird triple post.
And who's presence here hurts out freedom of speech, not helps it.
This is true for many reasons. One is our current inability to post images. It's the who's constant posting of scat porn that instigated this change.
Now you can't post images, or even quote posts with images in them, which are like a quarter of the posts here.
So what do you suggest be done? It's already been proven that you can't ban people. They just go get proxies. I don't think anyone wants to eliminate anon posting, so what should be done?
Post by: psy on September 18, 2008, 04:28:43 AM
Quote from: "SDA"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"Quote from: "SDA"you are a Monster
Try to visit my site and judge me there. Tell me what you think of me in front of everyone on my site.
http://http://www.adventistchat.net/
Wait, so you're inviting someone to come on your site and fight with you, but you'll sue them if they do. Is that right?
Yes, that is right. You are protecting this demon by allowing him to post here, you are not practicing tolerance by allowing this. If you had any moral responsibility you would all come together and send him off.
Ok. TIme for the local administration to chime in on free speech. Read this exchange here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24149&p=313434#p313411 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24149&p=313434#p313411)
Quote
If this vulgar monster comes to my site I will identify him and bring him to court.
For what? and if you can figure out a "what", can you prove it with admissible evidence?
Look. I can't stand TheWho either, but it's not worth setting a precedent by banning him (not that banning would work, since he would simply use a proxy and come back as a guest). Just read the above link I gave you and maybe you'll change your mind.
Post by: psy on September 18, 2008, 04:35:09 AM
Quote from: "SDA"
Weird triple post.
And who's presence here hurts out freedom of speech, not helps it.
This is true for many reasons. One is our current inability to post images. It's the who's constant posting of scat porn that instigated this change
Good argument, but there is no evidence it was him who was posting that porn. It came from a bunch of proxies. I'm not sure I believe it was him either, since there are plenty of others with (arguably far more) motive, and it's just not TheWho's style.
Post by: Guest on September 18, 2008, 05:58:35 AM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "SDA"Quote from: "SDA"you are a Monster
Try to visit my site and judge me there. Tell me what you think of me in front of everyone on my site.
http://http://www.adventistchat.net/
Ok. TIme for the local administration to chime in on free speech. Read this exchange here:
http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic. ... 34#p313411 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24149&p=313434#p313411)QuoteIf this vulgar monster comes to my site I will identify him and bring him to court.
For what? and if you can figure out a "what", can you prove it with admissible evidence?
Look. I can't stand TheWho either, but it's not worth setting a precedent by banning him (not that banning would work, since he would simply use a proxy and come back as a guest). Just read the above link I gave you and maybe you'll change your mind.
PSY YOU ARE TALKING TO THE WHO!!!
Also, there's something fucked up with the quotes. You can't post more than "3 embeded quotes" or something. And half the time, the quotes don't go up right.. Anyone else have this problem?
Post by: Guest on September 18, 2008, 06:26:25 AM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "SDA"Weird triple post.
And who's presence here hurts out freedom of speech, not helps it.
This is true for many reasons. One is our current inability to post images. It's the who's constant posting of scat porn that instigated this change
Good argument, but there is no evidence it was him who was posting that porn. It came from a bunch of proxies. I'm not sure I believe it was him either, since there are plenty of others with (arguably far more) motive, and it's just not TheWho's style.
I'm pretty sure it is, based on its pretending to be me a while ago. The other entity you speak of, Psycho Sue Scheff, has a different style—she posts those “psy is gay and a killer” threads, right? No, porn’s a little vulgar for her. Who else? The Benchmark people? I guess it could be anyone…but he was the only consistent presence through this time.
Post by: Guest on September 18, 2008, 06:40:08 AM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "SDA"Weird triple post.
And who's presence here hurts out freedom of speech, not helps it.
This is true for many reasons. One is our current inability to post images. It's the who's constant posting of scat porn that instigated this change.
Now you can't post images, or even quote posts with images in them, which are like a quarter of the posts here.
So what do you suggest be done? It's already been proven that you can't ban people. They just go get proxies. I don't think anyone wants to eliminate anon posting, so what should be done?
1)Ban thewho.
Ban all “easy proxies.” The kind you buy, the “anonymouse” types. That way you can only post with the “sophisticated” proxies like tor, OO…these work, but take FOREVER.
The porn man and thewho operate on a deluge modality. Slow. them down. They’ll still post, but not to the point it’s too invasive
2)Get over it, it’s just porn. Re-allow free speech.(Yeah, I get the irony in wanting who banned, but wanting images allowed i.n.o “free speech” but while I don’t mind censoring thewho, not everyone should be censored because of him. Who’s a special case: a multi-year cancer whose devoted himself to derailing threads with day-in day-out with nonsensical repetitive program propaganda)
3) Let images be posted and people have the choice whether to click on them again
4) Allow people to choose whether they want to view images or not by some magic geek voodoo I’m not familiar with.
5) Give the who's i.p to anonymous. YOU may not be able to find out who he is through it, but THEY can. Find out what program he's connected to, post that info.
6) Watch this forum continue to slide into obscurity.
7) Other suggestions?
8) I like the number 8. It's more than 7, less than nine. Yeah.....8
Post by: Guest on September 18, 2008, 08:47:10 AM
Quote from: "sda"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"Quote from: "SDA"Weird triple post.
And who's presence here hurts out freedom of speech, not helps it.
This is true for many reasons. One is our current inability to post images. It's the who's constant posting of scat porn that instigated this change.
Now you can't post images, or even quote posts with images in them, which are like a quarter of the posts here.
So what do you suggest be done? It's already been proven that you can't ban people. They just go get proxies. I don't think anyone wants to eliminate anon posting, so what should be done?
1)Ban thewho.
Ban all “easy proxies.” The kind you buy, the “anonymouse” types. That way you can only post with the “sophisticated” proxies like tor, OO…these work, but take FOREVER.
The porn man and thewho operate on a deluge modality. Slow. them down. They’ll still post, but not to the point it’s too invasive
2)Get over it, it’s just porn. Re-allow free speech.(Yeah, I get the irony in wanting who banned, but wanting images allowed i.n.o “free speech” but while I don’t mind censoring thewho, not everyone should be censored because of him. Who’s a special case: a multi-year cancer whose devoted himself to derailing threads with day-in day-out with nonsensical repetitive program propaganda)
3) Let images be posted and people have the choice whether to click on them again
4) Allow people to choose whether they want to view images or not by some magic geek voodoo I’m not familiar with.
5) Give the who's i.p to anonymous. YOU may not be able to find out who he is through it, but THEY can. Find out what program he's connected to, post that info.
6) Watch this forum continue to slide into obscurity.
7) Other suggestions?
8 ) I like the number 8. It's more than 7, less than nine. Yeah.....8
anon just hacked sara palins email
Post by: TheWho on September 18, 2008, 11:42:10 AM
If you read back we were all discussing the rights of children until you jumped in and decided to troll and derail this thread with your personal agenda. The reason psy had to discontinue the use of images is because of people like you who feel their individual rights are above everyone elses without regard to other people posting here.
...
Post by: RobertBruce on September 18, 2008, 11:59:34 AM
Quote
and have exposed anyone who has a different opinion then yours
As do you.
Quote
and I do post anonymously when being trolled or when I cannot log it
Or you when feel the urge to pretend to be other people or are looking to avoid being held accountable for your own comments.
Quote
people like you who feel their individual rights are above everyone elses without regard to other people posting here.
And spamming the board was you considering others?
Pot meet kettle.
Cindy is it your belief that 60 kids per week die violent deaths in public schools?
Post by: TheWho on September 18, 2008, 01:36:33 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
LDS ,out of all the people who post here on fornits your type is by far the most dangerous. You like to control and have exposed anyone who has a different opinion then yours, deny them of their individual right of free speech, try to bring them into the open. If this cannot be accomplished individually then you suggest denying entire groups of people by shutting down proxy server access, while at the same time you protect your individual freedom by posting under several user names, ADS, SDA,ASDA,MEEW etc.,to cover your tracks. You can easily go back and review what I have posted years ago by doing a search under my user name and I do post anonymously when being trolled or when I cannot log it, but you seem to be ashamed of what you write so you change user names at will.
If you read back we were all discussing the rights of children until you jumped in and decided to troll and derail this thread with your personal agenda. The reason psy had to discontinue the use of images is because of people like you who feel their individual rights are above everyone elses without regard to other people posting here.
...
Wow, not sure what to say.
Post by: Anonymous on September 18, 2008, 01:48:34 PM
Quote from: "ADD"
Quote from: "TheWho"LDS ,out of all the people who post here on fornits your type is by far the most dangerous. You like to control and have exposed anyone who has a different opinion then yours, deny them of their individual right of free speech, try to bring them into the open. If this cannot be accomplished individually then you suggest denying entire groups of people by shutting down proxy server access, while at the same time you protect your individual freedom by posting under several user names, ADS, SDA,ASDA,MEEW etc.,to cover your tracks. You can easily go back and review what I have posted years ago by doing a search under my user name and I do post anonymously when being trolled or when I cannot log it, but you seem to be ashamed of what you write so you change user names at will.
If you read back we were all discussing the rights of children until you jumped in and decided to troll and derail this thread with your personal agenda. The reason psy had to discontinue the use of images is because of people like you who feel their individual rights are above everyone elses without regard to other people posting here.
...
Wow, not sure what to say.
"Fuck you" would be a good place to start. It sounds like he's describing his StrugglingTeens site and not LDS.
ARGUING WITH THE WHO IS LIKE ARGUING WITH A RACIST. YOU ACCOMPLISH NOTHING. IGNORANCE IS IN HIS BLOOD.
Post by: Anonymous on September 18, 2008, 02:06:09 PM
Post by: TheWho on September 18, 2008, 02:16:45 PM
Quote from: "TheWhoNoNo"
"Fuck you" would be a good place to start. It sounds like he's describing his StrugglingTeens site and not LDS.
ARGUING WITH THE WHO IS LIKE ARGUING WITH A RACIST. YOU ACCOMPLISH NOTHING. IGNORANCE IS IN HIS BLOOD.
Aww, that is not right, dont care what you say. Read back a bit and it doesnt matter to me what anyone says free speech is free speech. It is not right that LDS or ADS try to silence someone because of what they say. No one was banned when the porn was being posted and that is worse than having a bad opinion. Your priorities are fucked up.
Post by: Anonymous on September 18, 2008, 02:19:30 PM
Quote from: "JEdwards"
Aww, that is not right, dont care what you say. Read back a bit and it doesnt matter to me what anyone says free speech is free speech. It is not right that LDS or ADS try to silence someone because of what they say. No one was banned when the porn was being posted and that is worse than having a bad opinion. Your priorities are fucked up.
I wonder if TheWho actually believes he is fooling anyone with his guest posts? :jerry:
Post by: ThéWho on September 18, 2008, 02:22:04 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
I wonder if TheWho actually believes he is fooling anyone with his guest posts? :jerry:
It's not about fooling the regulars like yourself. It's about fooling all the parents who read TheWho thread on a daily basis. This is much more serious than anyone can imagine. That is why you are the most dangerous type of poster on fornits. We need to create a type of fornits homeland security to protest us all from the likes of you. I've never met a dangerous person as you, I am very scared.
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 18, 2008, 02:42:07 PM
Quote from: "ThéWho"
Quote from: "Guest"
I wonder if TheWho actually believes he is fooling anyone with his guest posts? :jerry:
It's not about fooling the regulars like yourself. It's about fooling all the parents who read TheWho thread on a daily basis. This is much more serious than anyone can imagine. That is why you are the most dangerous type of poster on fornits. We need to create a type of fornits homeland security to protest us all from the likes of you. I've never met a dangerous person as you, I am very scared.
...
How 'bout a nice cup of SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!!!!!!
GodDAMN this is getting old.
Post by: TheWho on September 18, 2008, 02:59:31 PM
Quote from: "ThéWho"
Quote from: "Guest"
I wonder if TheWho actually believes he is fooling anyone with his guest posts? :jerry:
It's not about fooling the regulars like yourself. It's about fooling all the parents who read TheWho thread on a daily basis. This is much more serious than anyone can imagine. That is why you are the most dangerous type of poster on fornits. We need to create a type of fornits homeland security to protest us all from the likes of you. I've never met a dangerous person as you, I am very scared.
...
Who, that has to be one of the few times I have agreed with you. The real danger is people who don’t tell the truth. A homeland security for fornits is a great idea. If someone said they were forced to carry wood around as punishment at say “woodland TBS”, that person would need to substantiate that claim somehow by having someone familiar with the TBS to ask questions like what are the ground like, staffs names etc. to see if the person actually even attended the school.
I remember awhile back when someone said the worst thing to ever happen to them was they were wrapped from head to toe in duct tape and thrown in the ocean during a typhoon and everyone here on fornits bought the story hook, line and sinker. When in reality if anyone took the time to talk to that person they would know he was lying. The worst part about being wrapped from head to toe in duct tape is having the tape removed!! LOL Anyone who has ever had duct tape on them, their arm, etc. Knows what it feels like to take it off.
So some well defined stock questions would be a great idea to weed out the true stories from the others that keep plaguing us here and giving us a bad name.
Post by: ThéWho on September 18, 2008, 03:06:41 PM
Quote from: "xfiunm"
How 'bout a nice cup of SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!!!!!!
GodDAMN this is getting old.
If you don't want to participate in this discussion, there are plenty of other threads. You pretend to be above this conversation, but then chime in with your opinion just like everyone else. You'll be back again, as expected, to illustrate how dissatisfied with this discussion you are. I will offer you some advice, which you can take for what it's worth. When I find myself tired of the discussions, I turn off my computer and go do something else. Give it a try, you might be surprised at what happens.
...
Post by: ThéWho on September 18, 2008, 03:09:27 PM
Quote from: "LDS"
Who, that has to be one of the few times I have agreed with you. The real danger is people who don’t tell the truth. A homeland security for fornits is a great idea. If someone said they were forced to carry wood around as punishment at say “woodland TBS”, that person would need to substantiate that claim somehow by having someone familiar with the TBS to ask questions like what are the ground like, staffs names etc. to see if the person actually even attended the school.
I remember awhile back when someone said the worst thing to ever happen to them was they were wrapped from head to toe in duct tape and thrown in the ocean during a typhoon and everyone here on fornits bought the story hook, line and sinker. When in reality if anyone took the time to talk to that person they would know he was lying. The worst part about being wrapped from head to toe in duct tape is having the tape removed!! LOL Anyone who has ever had duct tape on them, their arm, etc. Knows what it feels like to take it off.
So some well defined stock questions would be a great idea to weed out the true stories from the others that keep plaguing us here and giving us a bad name.
I'm glad that you agree with me. I agree with you too, many abuse stories posted here are unbelievable, and I find them amusing. To be honest, that's the main reason why I frequent fornits, to be entertained by the stories of abuse. Stick around, you will get to hear some of the most hilarious stories of abuse you've ever heard made up. If these people spent less time making up stories, and more time obeying their parents, they would of never had to receive treatment in the first place.
...
Post by: TheWho on September 18, 2008, 03:17:04 PM
Post by: ThéWho on September 18, 2008, 03:19:59 PM
...
Post by: TheWho on September 18, 2008, 03:42:10 PM
Quote from: "ThéWho"
Don't worry, I am the same "Who". Admins with little respect for free speech decided to lock my other account and use it to pretend to be me. This is my new account, so please ignore anything my other account says. That is just admins having fun. So much for freedom of speech on fornits.
...
It all gets back to that relentless control issue that is so hard for the admins to unhand. I feel for you who. Out of all the posters here you are the only one who is continuously harrassed but you stand your ground for fair play and free speech. I have to hand it to you, just hang in and say what you feel is right.
Post by: ThéWho on September 18, 2008, 03:52:52 PM
Quote from: "DSA"
It all gets back to that relentless control issue that is so hard for the admins to unhand. I feel for you who. Out of all the posters here you are the only one who is continuously harrassed but you stand your ground for fair play and free speech. I have to hand it to you, just hang in and say what you feel is right.
I always say what I feel is right, and that is why so many people around here take offense to my opinions. I think that all programs are beneficial all the time, and any kid who is saying otherwise is a liar. I know that can sound harsh, but let's not forget the type of kids programs treat, they are all liars, thiefs and manipulators. That's what fornits is, one big manipulation. These kids got so mad someone finally tried to help them, they have created an organized effort to discredit the industry which helped them. Their stories are all very similar, which leads me to believe this website is the work of a small group of dedicated "posers" who act like they were abused. That is why I laugh so much at their outlandish stories, I know they are all just made up. Even my daughter got in on the conspiracy, and posted a video of her receiving treatment. Eventually over time though, I convinced her it was for her own good, and now we have a good relationship.
...
Post by: TheWho on September 18, 2008, 04:21:38 PM
I am glad your daughter has come around finally. I heard rumors the 2 of you were not speaking.
Post by: ThéWho on September 18, 2008, 04:52:20 PM
Quote from: "ADS"
Who, When I first came onto fornits everyone convinced me that I was abused. I never felt I really was but this is a persuasive bunch of people and until coming here I never knew how broad the term abuse was. I always thought it was defined in terms of physical, psychological or sexual abuse. But fornits has taught me that abuse can mean anything we want it to mean, if we “feel “ we were abused then we were!! If a staff member yelled at me then that means he is abusive towards me and since he works for the program then that means the programs is abusive and since the program is part of an industry then the entire industry must be abusive also. So it is simple deduction that every member of the Troubled Teen industry is abusive!! It is so simple I cant believe I never saw it that way before. Reading here has really opened my eyes.
I am glad your daughter has come around finally. I heard rumors the 2 of you were not speaking.
You will hear all sorts of nasty rumors about me and my daughter. Don't believe them, they are not true and we get along great now. It's so nice to know that fornits has benefited people as much as you. It really has made my life better too. I used to be bored with life, and had nobody to talk to. But now I wake up refreshed, knowing there will always be someone willing to talk to me on fornits! Even if it's not the most pleasant conversation, I don't mind because any sort of human interaction is better than none at all.
The term abuse can mean whatever you want it to mean, that is the great thing about free speech. You are open to your opinion just as much as I am to mine. As I say this, there are always the people who come back and ask if I support free speech so much, then why do I support programs that control speech in every way. That is a completely different situation, apples and oranges.
...
Post by: ThéWho on September 18, 2008, 04:57:00 PM
We don't need no education
We dont need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers leave them kids alone
Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.
Even Pink Floyd knew that public schools were dangerous, and that programs are safer. Let's all work on putting "Another Brick in the Wall" of a program, and help support them. We must be vigilant because with programs you don't need just any wall, you need four solid ones.
...
Post by: TheWho on September 18, 2008, 08:01:58 PM
Quote from: "ThéWho"
The term abuse can mean whatever you want it to mean, that is the great thing about free speech. You are open to your opinion just as much as I am to mine. As I say this, there are always the people who come back and ask if I support free speech so much, then why do I support programs that control speech in every way. That is a completely different situation, apples and oranges.
...
You have the most screwed up logic I have ever seen. Look it isn’t apples and oranges. Most of us on fornits agree that things were not working out at home for us, many of us dropped out of school, disrespected our parents’ rules in their house, got high whenever we wanted, exposed our siblings to drugs. Our parents gave us many chances to straighten up but we managed to piss them all away. We are mainly pissed off because our livestyles were interrupted and we were not sent to any of the better programs so we didn’t have a very good experience and by the time we got out we were all pissed off again because we missed all that time we could have spent getting high instead of studying towards our highschool diploma. The programs controlled our way of life and controlled our speech (i.e. took our cell phones, lap tops etc.). This is very different than not allowing people to express their opinion. We still expressed our opinions loud and clear and had freedom of speech the only difference is the staff just didn’t react to it the way our parents did and it wasn’t as much fun doing all that stuff when we were not high.
So next time you talk about freedom of speech please be specific.
Post by: Froderik on September 18, 2008, 08:34:29 PM
Post by: TheWho on September 18, 2008, 09:06:00 PM
At this point in my life I am just glad they did something for me and didn’t give up on me and am grateful my sister didn’t end up with Hep C like I did. I am not going to beat them up because they chose a shitty place for me. I owe them big time and my kid sister is so beautiful and we are the best of friends now.
Post by: TheWho on September 18, 2008, 09:43:08 PM
Quote from: "TomK"
Man, I don’t blame my parents at all. I was so screwed up when I was 16 that freedom of speech was the last of my worries. I was so high all the time that my speech was slurred and no one could understand me anyway LOL so it really didn’t matter. I couldn’t remember half my therapy sessions, I exposed myself to my guidance counsellor and missed over 120 days of school my sophomore year. I sold my dads car to some freak in the city for an amount I don’t remember and my kid sister had to be tested for Hep C exposure 3 times in 2 years. I dried out in some hospital about 200 miles away from home and then ended up in PV. Now 4 years later I am able to function day to day on Zoloft and thats it, got my GED. As soon as I get some money together I plan to surprise my dad with a new car. Its the least I can do, I have no idea how he paid for my time at PV. But I am sure it would have been mine and my sisters inheritance someday.
At this point in my life I am just glad they did something for me and didn’t give up on me and am grateful my sister didn’t end up with Hep C like I did. I am not going to beat them up because they chose a shitty place for me. I owe them big time and my kid sister is so beautiful and we are the best of friends now.
LOL sold your dads car!! I never attended a day of school my sophomore year and pretty much slept all day and was out all night. My mom covered for me because she knew my dad would kill me or send me away if he found out how bad it really was. Then I was caught dealing to this guy who was sleeping with this 14 year old, he was like old in his 40’s or something like that. So it made the papers and my dad flipped (I mean really flipped) and I was on a plane a few days later. Being sent to a program meant no jail time. I am not comfortable naming the program but I can tell you that most of the kids there were not as bad off as I was. Looking back I wish my dad had found out sooner so I would have missed all that time and spent money. I really screwed up my head all those years on drugs.
Advice to parents reading. Don’t wait for the cops to get involved to do something to help your kid. It wont get better on its own, it will only get worse trust me!
Post by: Guest on September 18, 2008, 09:47:09 PM
Quote from: "thewho"
Quote from: "ThéWho"The term abuse can mean whatever you want it to mean, that is the great thing about free speech. You are open to your opinion just as much as I am to mine. As I say this, there are always the people who come back and ask if I support free speech so much, then why do I support programs that control speech in every way. That is a completely different situation, apples and oranges.
...
You have the most screwed up logic I have ever seen. Look it isn’t apples and oranges. Most of us on fornits agree that things were not working out at home for us, many of us dropped out of school, disrespected our parents’ rules in their house, got high whenever we wanted, exposed our siblings to drugs. Our parents gave us many chances to straighten up but we managed to piss them all away. We are mainly pissed off because our livestyles were interrupted and we were not sent to any of the better programs so we didn’t have a very good experience and by the time we got out we were all pissed off again because we missed all that time we could have spent getting high instead of studying towards our highschool diploma. The programs controlled our way of life and controlled our speech (i.e. took our cell phones, lap tops etc.). This is very different than not allowing people to express their opinion. We still expressed our opinions loud and clear and had freedom of speech the only difference is the staff just didn’t react to it the way our parents did and it wasn’t as much fun doing all that stuff when we were not high.
So next time you talk about freedom of speech please be specific.
thewho^^
Quite identifiable by its calling card, "cell phones."
See what I mean about banning/shooting it? Who doesn't provide "free speech," as in "exchange of ideas".
Who stops, stunts information exchange, by any means possible. Its not what he says, it is its behavior that is the problem
Who's a one-creep saboteur machine interested in nothing but wrecking this forum's functionality.
Who exploits the freedoms of fornits to accomplish that, while our freedoms get stripped to accommodate its odious presence.
Ban it. Delete its posts when it pretends to be someone else.
Give me its info. i guarantee I'll get its name. And trust me, attaching a name to its odious actions will scare it away in no time at all.
Its a shill for Bain Capital, or a psycho cult devotee. Either way, that truth revealed, it'll evaporate.
Post by: Guest on September 18, 2008, 09:54:11 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TomK"Man, I don’t blame my parents at all. I was so screwed up when I was 16 that freedom of speech was the last of my worries. I was so high all the time that my speech was slurred and no one could understand me anyway LOL so it really didn’t matter. I couldn’t remember half my therapy sessions, I exposed myself to my guidance counsellor and missed over 120 days of school my sophomore year. I sold my dads car to some freak in the city for an amount I don’t remember and my kid sister had to be tested for Hep C exposure 3 times in 2 years. I dried out in some hospital about 200 miles away from home and then ended up in PV. Now 4 years later I am able to function day to day on Zoloft and thats it, got my GED. As soon as I get some money together I plan to surprise my dad with a new car. Its the least I can do, I have no idea how he paid for my time at PV. But I am sure it would have been mine and my sisters inheritance someday.
At this point in my life I am just glad they did something for me and didn’t give up on me and am grateful my sister didn’t end up with Hep C like I did. I am not going to beat them up because they chose a shitty place for me. I owe them big time and my kid sister is so beautiful and we are the best of friends now.
LOL sold your dads car!! I never attended a day of school my sophomore year and pretty much slept all day and was out all night. My mom covered for me because she knew my dad would kill me or send me away if he found out how bad it really was. Then I was caught dealing to this guy who was sleeping with this 14 year old, he was like old in his 40’s or something like that. So it made the papers and my dad flipped (I mean really flipped) and I was on a plane a few days later. Being sent to a program meant no jail time. I am not comfortable naming the program but I can tell you that most of the kids there were not as bad off as I was. Looking back I wish my dad had found out sooner so I would have missed all that time and spent money. I really screwed up my head all those years on drugs.
Advice to parents reading. Don’t wait for the cops to get involved to do something to help your kid. It wont get better on its own, it will only get worse trust me!
who too^^^.
who you're very bad at hiding your writing style. Your style is the sound crazy and is easily identifiable for those who've read your spew
Post by: Guest on September 18, 2008, 09:55:34 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TomK"Man, I don’t blame my parents at all. I was so screwed up when I was 16 that freedom of speech was the last of my worries. I was so high all the time that my speech was slurred and no one could understand me anyway LOL so it really didn’t matter. I couldn’t remember half my therapy sessions, I exposed myself to my guidance counsellor and missed over 120 days of school my sophomore year. I sold my dads car to some freak in the city for an amount I don’t remember and my kid sister had to be tested for Hep C exposure 3 times in 2 years. I dried out in some hospital about 200 miles away from home and then ended up in PV. Now 4 years later I am able to function day to day on Zoloft and thats it, got my GED. As soon as I get some money together I plan to surprise my dad with a new car. Its the least I can do, I have no idea how he paid for my time at PV. But I am sure it would have been mine and my sisters inheritance someday.
At this point in my life I am just glad they did something for me and didn’t give up on me and am grateful my sister didn’t end up with Hep C like I did. I am not going to beat them up because they chose a shitty place for me. I owe them big time and my kid sister is so beautiful and we are the best of friends now.
LOL sold your dads car!! I never attended a day of school my sophomore year and pretty much slept all day and was out all night. My mom covered for me because she knew my dad would kill me or send me away if he found out how bad it really was. Then I was caught dealing to this guy who was sleeping with this 14 year old, he was like old in his 40’s or something like that. So it made the papers and my dad flipped (I mean really flipped) and I was on a plane a few days later. Being sent to a program meant no jail time. I am not comfortable naming the program but I can tell you that most of the kids there were not as bad off as I was. Looking back I wish my dad had found out sooner so I would have missed all that time and spent money. I really screwed up my head all those years on drugs.
Advice to parents reading. Don’t wait for the cops to get involved to do something to help your kid. It wont get better on its own, it will only get worse trust me!
who too^^^.
who you're very bad at hiding your writing style. Your style is the sound crazy and is easily identifiable for those who've read your spew
Post by: TheWho on September 18, 2008, 09:56:08 PM
Post by: Froderik on September 18, 2008, 10:10:39 PM
Post by: ThéWho on September 18, 2008, 11:28:59 PM
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 19, 2008, 04:10:58 AM
It fits the m.o. He'd be able to post here all day too
Post by: TheWho on September 19, 2008, 07:46:11 AM
Quote from: "conservitive parker"
Has anyone considered that thewho might be lou from struglling teens or his wife?No, I have been following the conversation closely. The new "who" is psy or Ginger (one with the mark over the "e". No one else can fill in the field "Aspen Goebbels" like that unless you are an admin. The old who is posting as a guest and they are just having fun switching roles. It funny actually, no harm done.
It fits the m.o. He'd be able to post here all day too
Post by: ThéWho on September 19, 2008, 07:56:04 AM
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 19, 2008, 09:20:35 AM
Quote from: "ThéWho"
Ha,Ha,Ha...more conspiracy theories from the trolls. Admins locked my old account for laughing at a video they posted of my daughter. They put the video in my signature now and I can't remove it, so now I see it as a badge of honor. Free speech is not being respected at fornits, they can't win a debate without changing the rules on me.
...
Above is the real who. His writing style is very distinct.Who, I hear you about the trolls. You're slime in every other respect, but on that you've got a good point.
How can you support the abduction and imprisonment and "treatment" of youth in programs when there has never been ANY medical evidence that any program is "helpful," much evidence produced they are harmful, and their demonstrable cultic abuse, nature, origins, and base? (CEDU, carlbrook, Elan for example)
Post by: Anonymous on September 19, 2008, 09:23:17 AM
Quote from: "Froderik"
Sure, but they obviously meant the guest posts were made by TheWho, which i suspected as well. And of course just b/c the impostor was also on this thread doesn't necessarily mean anything.
No, frod, the anon talking to you is thewho, both the who logged in with "aspens Goebbels" and many anons (who all sound the same) are thewho. Cant you tell writing style?
Post by: Anonymous on September 19, 2008, 10:23:13 AM
::) ::)
Post by: Froderik on September 19, 2008, 10:47:21 AM
Quote from: "LDF"
That's pretty much what I saying, aside from the 'fake' Who with the é.Quote from: "Froderik"Sure, but they obviously meant the guest posts were made by TheWho, which i suspected as well. And of course just b/c the impostor was also on this thread doesn't necessarily mean anything.
No, frod, the anon talking to you is thewho, both the who logged in with "aspens Goebbels" and many anons (who all sound the same) are thewho. Cant you tell writing style?
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on September 19, 2008, 01:37:59 PM
Post by: TheWho on September 19, 2008, 02:12:14 PM
Quote from: "LDF"
Quote from: "Froderik"Sure, but they obviously meant the guest posts were made by TheWho, which i suspected as well. And of course just b/c the impostor was also on this thread doesn't necessarily mean anything.
No, frod, the anon talking to you is thewho, both the who logged in with "aspens Goebbels" and many anons (who all sound the same) are thewho. Cant you tell writing style?
Wow, you guys give me alot of credit. Now I am the "trolls", the "fake who" and the "real who". Looks like I can take a week off and still appear as if I was working...err I mean posting, well more like visiting. Well I look at it more like "adding balance".
I am pretty sure I am the real who, CCM, I will have to check my emails to be sure, though.
...
Post by: ThéWho on September 19, 2008, 02:33:41 PM
...
Post by: ThéWho on September 19, 2008, 02:35:36 PM
Quote from: "CCM girl 1989"
Will the real Who please stand up, please stand up?!!!!!!! :rasta:
Admins blocked my other account and are now impersonating me on my old name. I am the real Who.
...
Post by: TheWho on September 19, 2008, 02:55:17 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 19, 2008, 03:03:25 PM
Quote from: "ertfde"
Dam who, someone is really busting on your ass, Your daughter should have insisted that they do another take as soon as they saw the first cut with the woman posing as a staff member had the 1980’s phone prop in her back pocket (maybe she was part of the camera crew). First thing that pops up is “are takedowns that rare that the only footage they have was taken in the 1980’s”. I thought we would have something a little bit more recent, This supports the belief that takedowns are not used anymore, except in the movies.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
The real who. The dumb ass.
Post by: TheWho on September 19, 2008, 03:06:46 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 19, 2008, 03:11:05 PM
Post by: TheWho on September 19, 2008, 03:15:09 PM
http://http://www.plumflowermantisboxing.com/images/augtenn/takedown.jpg
Post by: ThéWho on September 19, 2008, 03:15:59 PM
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 19, 2008, 03:19:23 PM
Quote from: "ThéWho"
I wouldn't call what happened to my daughter a takedown. Her counselors called them interventions, but I personally refer to it as therapy. You don't know how much of a troubled teen my daughter was. I wasn't going to pay $200 an hour for her to manipulate a therapist. I needed real action and someone to stand up to her.
...
Shit who. You could have provided that therapy by kicking her ass around yourself. Oh that's right. You would be put in jail for performing that "intervention".
Post by: TheWho on September 19, 2008, 08:46:56 PM
Quote from: "ThéWho"
I wouldn't call what happened to my daughter a takedown. Her counselors called them interventions, but I personally refer to it as therapy. You don't know how much of a troubled teen my daughter was. I wasn't going to pay $200 an hour for her to manipulate a therapist. I needed real action and someone to stand up to her.
...
The main thing is no one got hurt. Your daughter turned out okay and is back on track as you put it. We understand that parents need help once in awhile with their at-risk teens. If you look at the numbers coming out NCES studies we see that violent deaths are starting to decrease and this coinsides with the increase in Therapeutic boarding schools across the nation. so now that parents have an afordable alternative they are starting to take advantage and it is starting to have an overall effect on crime, drugs and productivity of the young people.
Post by: Guest on September 19, 2008, 11:00:38 PM
Quote from: "Robert R"
The main thing is no one got hurt. Your daughter turned out okay and is back on track as you put it. We understand that parents need help once in awhile with their at-risk teens. If you look at the numbers coming out NCES studies we see that violent deaths are starting to decrease and this coinsides with the increase in Therapeutic boarding schools across the nation. so now that parents have an afordable alternative they are starting to take advantage and it is starting to have an overall effect on crime, drugs and productivity of the young people.
That is the important thing. Thank-you guest and thank-you to the "we" you represent when you say "we understand that parents need help once in awhile with their at-risk teens." I am glad to speak to a representative of emotional growth programs. My daughter is a college graduate today, and alive because of one of your programs. She was angry and out of control.
I didn't speak to her for 3 years after the escorts came for her except through phone calls. I looked forward to these calls though sometimes they were disconnected if my daughter became manipulative. (She said she was being hurt by "some kind of cult" "please help" "for the love of god.")
ha, ha, ha. Teens have a wild imagination. But you love them.
Then she would receive a consequence for trying to be manipulative. She soon became honest. That was the beginning of her recovery. Today she is happy. She still has her stuggles, but she is doing well. You just have to stick it out and it works out.
Post by: TheWho on September 20, 2008, 08:33:11 AM
Quote from: "The Who"
That is the important thing. Thank-you guest and thank-you to the "we" you represent when you say "we understand that parents need help once in awhile with their at-risk teens." I am glad to speak to a representative of emotional growth programs. My daughter is a college graduate today, and alive because of one of your programs. She was angry and out of control.
I didn't speak to her for 3 years after the escorts came for her except through phone calls. I looked forward to these calls though sometimes they were disconnected if my daughter became manipulative. (She said she was being hurt by "some kind of cult" "please help" "for the love of god.")
ha, ha, ha. Teens have a wild imagination. But you love them.
Then she would receive a consequence for trying to be manipulative. She soon became honest. That was the beginning of her recovery. Today she is happy. She still has her stuggles, but she is doing well. You just have to stick it out and it works out.
I had a similar experience, my daughter attended ASR. It was highly structured but they allowed open communication between the parents and the child. That is funny about you daughter calling the place she was at a cult!! When I was younger I attended summer camp and there was a kid in our cabin that wrote to his parents and told them he was being starved to death and to come and get him!! We were all a little homesick I think. But they didn’t have any phones at all!! Imagine what fornits would have thought of this place!! Ha,Ha,Ha Manipulation is to be expected when the kids are facing hard work and consequences, but we all know our own kids the best and lending a sympathetic ear and encouragement to hang in there is a big help. The teen years are a tough time and sometimes the only thing we can do is love them and try to guide them the best we can to keep them out of harm’s way. Unfortunately sometimes intervention is needed to help accomplish this with some children.
...
Post by: TheWho on September 20, 2008, 10:45:17 AM
Post by: psy on September 20, 2008, 10:58:01 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Who, what is your problem? Why do you constantly acuse all the kids of manipulation. Manipulation is a program term used to cover the programs ass in case the child says they are being abused. This way the program can say the child is lying and the program can continue its abuse.Programs recognize that "manipulation" is a carte-blanche excuse to dismiss anything a kid says. They know parents won't believe them, because, like all teenagers, they have lied to their parents in the past. What parent's don't realize is just how dangerous ignoring pleas to help can be. Any allegations of abuse or fraud, no matter how ridiculous sounding, should be investigated thoroughly (for example, by asking other "graduates", asking on Fornits, and/or informing the appropriate authorities). Sure there is a chance the kid might be manipulating, but is that chance really worth taking? My advice would be that (in addition to the previous suggested steps), if a child reports abuse, a parent should ask the child if it's something he/she feels should be reported to the police, warning them that filing a false police report is a crime. If the kid still thinks the police should be informed, it's probably a valid complaint. Even if the allegations aren't substantiated by evidence later on (as i suspect it might be, as police might not know what to look for), if there is a pattern of police reports coming from a given facility, my feeling is that the police would be forced to do something eventually (or wind up liable later on).
Oh. And a parent should always insist on unmonitored, unrestricted communication with a child. This also means not reporting allegations of abuse back to the program, because if they are valid, the consequences of such a disclosure could be dire for the kid (i.e. abused further for daring to speak out)... It's also important a child be able to trust and confide in his/her parents. If parents, often the last hope, ignore cries for help, or reports back to the program, the kid might just lose hope (not to mention all faith in authority) and it could leave him/her very bitter at his/her parents in the long run (not to mention cynical).
Post by: Anonymous on September 20, 2008, 11:08:52 AM
Post by: psy on September 20, 2008, 11:11:00 AM
Quote from: "asdf"
Failure to report suspected child abuse is a crime. If a child tells a teacher, doctor or anyone they are being abused, reporting it is mandatory. Maybe asshole parents like the who would think twice about ignoring their kids pleas if they were held criminally liable for not reporting abuse allegations. Wouldn't something like that stain their reputation in the community worse than an unruly child?I've heard of that law, but don't know of any situations where it has been applied. It would be nice, though, to have it tried out once or twice to demonstrate to parents that they do have a legal obligation to report abuse.
Post by: TheWho on September 20, 2008, 11:17:57 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Who, what is your problem? Why do you constantly acuse all the kids of manipulation. Manipulation is a program term used to cover the programs ass in case the child says they are being abused. This way the program can say the child is lying and the program can continue its abuse.
All kids do manipulate (adults too). If anyone here has ever had kids of their own then they know that manipulation isn’t a word the programs came up with. When I was in high school they called it “Brown nosing”. Everyone manipulates to a certain degree it is only wrong when it is done to be underhanded. Being a little extra nice to a person who may donate to a cause you are involved in like cancer research etc. may be considered manipulation but it is not harmful.
Many here think that certain dialog and events are unique to programs when they are not. I see many parallels to my experience in highschool and private school events.
@ psy Good point, psy. The parents know their own kids best too. Asking them if they want the police brought in is a good way to differentiate between a child who is manipulating or not.
...
Post by: RobertBruce on September 20, 2008, 11:13:53 PM
Quote
Manipulation is to be expected when the kids are facing hard work and consequences,
Is it now? I attended public school for many years and not once was I ever sent home a syllabus that stated anything along the lines of, "your child will lie and tell you this is a horrible place. This is just a case of him manipulating you. Do not believe him." When I went to college and sat in on freshman orientation I never heard a Dean mention to the parents, "expect your son or daughter to call you claiming we're abusing them. This is just more of that manipulation you've come to expect."
Why is it that these programs are the only ones who have to forewarn parents about their kids claiming to be abused? If everything is fine why not just address the issue if it comes up. It almost sounds like by placing these warnings in the parent handbooks they're manipulating them to expect their kids to lie.
Why is that Cindy?
Also is it your belife that 60 kids die per week of violent deaths in public schools?
Post by: TheWho on September 22, 2008, 03:03:45 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 22, 2008, 04:24:54 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
if the kids are use to a parent who allows them to do what they want they are in for a rude awakening and the change can be tough at first.
Sometimes fatal, especially when the staff are a bunch of uneducated yahoos. You claim teachers don't care about the kids after school, but I've seen program staff who work "24/7" with kids regard the kids as less than animals and treat them that way.
Quote from: "Guest"
So manipulating the parents is a natural occurrence and is to be expected, but the longer the parents allow the child to manipulate them the longer it will take for the child to finish the program and the more it will cost the parents in the end, just need to nip it in the bud quickly so the child can get back to work.
Manipulation requires use of the hands, what you're talking about is influencing but manipulation sounds so much worse and scares parents. Who is really "manipulating" the parents, the kid who says he/she is being abused (and they don't get long before they're cut-off) or the program when they tell parents to ignore their kids concerns? If a child says he or she is being abused, it is mandatory to report it. With no proof that any program works, why should a parent risk losing their child by putting blind faith in program staff who view their kids as cattle? Programs are only holding pens, there is no evidence of long lasting positive changes in program kids. Parents are happy when their kids are off drugs and credit the program with "success", never realizing the kids are off drugs because there is no access to drugs while they are locked up. (except the antipsychotics and med regimen of the program). What happens when the kid is out of the program and back in the land of vice aplenty? The program will call it a "relapse", but was the kid helped or just denied access? Was the kid even an addict when admitted to the program? There are a lot of deviant peer influences at work when kids are lumped together in "one size fits all" treatment programs. Your kids could come out of treatment with habits and unhealthy interests that were never issues before.
Never give up the right to question a program's treatment methods, even though the program may demand 100% compliance. If a program refuses to answer with your questions or accuses you of being "misaligned" with treatment pull your kid out of there. Parents have a duty to listen to and protect their kids. Handing them over to individuals with unknown backgrounds for "tough love" is piss-poor parenting.
Post by: TheWho on September 22, 2008, 06:13:12 PM
Quote
Sometimes fatal, especially when the staff are a bunch of uneducated yahoos. You claim teachers don't care about the kids after school, but I've seen program staff who work "24/7" with kids regard the kids as less than animals and treat them that way.
There are exceptions to everything. Some programs hire uneducated staff and don’t train them properly. Some teachers in public schools have sex with the kids. Many kids die in public schools, some kids die in private schools.
The key is to find the safest place for your child and you need to do the proper research. Speak to the schools, parents who had kids attend etc.
Quote
Manipulation requires use of the hands, what you're talking about is influencing but manipulation sounds so much worse and scares parents. Who is really "manipulating" the parents, the kid who says he/she is being abused (and they don't get long before they're cut-off) or the program when they tell parents to ignore their kids concerns? If a child says he or she is being abused, it is mandatory to report it.
I think i can agree here that there is manipulation going on by more than just the children in some cases.
Quote
With no proof that any program works, why should a parent risk losing their child by putting blind faith in program staff who view their kids as cattle? Programs are only holding pens, there is no evidence of long lasting positive changes in program kids.
What parents need to do is choose a program that has a good track record and has been proven effective, a place where the kids excel and get back on track.
Quote
Parents are happy when their kids are off drugs and credit the program with "success", never realizing the kids are off drugs because there is no access to drugs while they are locked up. (except the antipsychotics and med regimen of the program). What happens when the kid is out of the program and back in the land of vice aplenty? The program will call it a "relapse", but was the kid helped or just denied access?
This is true, but a good program will equip the child with the tools he/she needs for when they graduate.
Quote
Was the kid even an addict when admitted to the program? There are a lot of deviant peer influences at work when kids are lumped together in "one size fits all" treatment programs. Your kids could come out of treatment with habits and unhealthy interests that were never issues before.
This is one reason I advocate having the child evaluated prior to making a placement. This way everyone knows what the issues are and what the goals are for the child. This allows for proper measurement of success.
Quote
Never give up the right to question a program's treatment methods, even though the program may demand 100% compliance. If a program refuses to answer with your questions or accuses you of being "misaligned" with treatment pull your kid out of there. Parents have a duty to listen to and protect their kids. Handing them over to individuals with unknown backgrounds for "tough love" is piss-poor parenting.
I think we agree here 100%... Parents need to do their homework prior to making any decision regarding their children.
...
Post by: ThéWho on September 22, 2008, 09:17:10 PM
“Just as harmful viruses require a human host to exist and thrive, so do negative states require the unconscious consent of human beings to carry out their dark mission.”
http://stason.org/articles/life/self...ic-People.html (http://stason.org/articles/life/self...ic-People.html)
This is accomplished by projection. An example is when someone hates someone and believes they hated person instead dislikes them. A more twisted form of this is projective identification, where a person takes what they don't like about themselves and subconsciously (or not) induce it into someone, to rid themselves of it. How an emotional vampire works is by using a process called “counter-projection” To quote Jung:
“All projections provoke counter-projection when the object is unconscious of the quality projected upon it by the subject”.
This will cause an obsession of the target with the projector. That is why the vampire always gets the girl in the movies. If you are with someone and afterwards you wonder why you did or said the things you did, you might be in the grip of this.
Is someone trying to put you into an emotional state? Reliving a past negative experience to feed off the pain? Putting others down to establish their own superiority? Do they find no joy in life and need a negative atmosphere to function? It's red flag time.
These are some of the methods they use to accomplish this: blame, shame (makes you question your own sanity before theirs), negating your thoughts and emotions, or drawing you into toxic gossiping and backbiting.
They can pretend to be “just concerned about you”, but the goal is to produce anxiety. They may want you to remain a failure or mediocre all your life, because taking care of your inabilities has become a part of their self-esteem. It varies from person to person, but the bottom line is, you are being manipulated and used and if you don't watch it being made into a co-dependent.
You can find the different type of emotional vampires and the personality disorders they relate to here:
http://www.albernstein.com/id55.htm (http://www.albernstein.com/id55.htm)
...
Post by: RobertBruce on September 22, 2008, 11:52:09 PM
Quote
What parents need to do is choose a program that has a good track record and has been proven effective, a place where the kids excel and get back on track.
And an example of such a program might be.......?
Also Cindy, still waiting to hear from you on why public high schools and colleges dont send home warnings to parents about their childrens upcoming manipulations and claims of abuse.
Post by: TheWho on September 23, 2008, 07:42:04 AM
...
Post by: Troll Control on September 23, 2008, 01:24:31 PM
Post by: ThéWho on September 23, 2008, 01:48:13 PM
...
Post by: Anonymous on September 23, 2008, 01:55:58 PM
Quote from: "ThéWho"
Look, everybody, I seem like a nice enough guy and probably don't contribute or add value in anyone's personal life. So I am here to troll the issues concerning the “Troubled Teen industry”, dispute and degrade the details of others who are looking to learn and grow, as I am not, along with ridiculing their personal experiences. When I can demonstrate that I am willing to have an adult conversation with others here and I'm sincere in trying to discuss the issues and add value here then you should respond.
Are you really this lonely and your life that devoid of value that you feel the need to impersonate someone even MORE lonely and pathetic than yourself?
::)
Post by: ThéWho on September 23, 2008, 01:58:32 PM
Quote from: "losersayswhat?"
Are you really this lonely and your life that devoid of value that you feel the need to impersonate someone even MORE lonely and pathetic than yourself?
::)
Ha,Ha,Ha...
Post by: RobertBruce on September 24, 2008, 12:42:25 AM
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2008, 12:41:45 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Cindy, this has been proven time and again.
Good. Then drop it. I have nothing better to do than police fornits for threads I don't like.
Quote
I've added far more on here then you ever could.
Congratulations. I am smug and superior because I am telling you not to talk to TheWho. Instead of ignoring the conversations and doing something more interesting, I want to tell you how much of a loser you are for pursuing your conversations.
Quote
All you add is entertainment value. The clown who doesnt know hes being laughed at.
I add no entertainment value and wish I was a moderator. My goal is to derail threads. I was somewhat contained with most people ignoring me, but since you've seen fit to come back (glad you're back but not happy you're doing this again, just like you did with whatshername) and start this stupid pissing match (I've done more than you have, neener neener) I've been really mad about it, really, really mad. So please do this anonymous poster a favor and stop talking. Thanks.
Quote
Again I did something to bring regulation and made life more difficult for child abusers in Georgia. Meanwhile you've done......oh that's right nothing. But hey, you can pretend you know my name right? Hey, why don't you claim I'm bi sexual again? Or if you get too lonely you can pretend to argue with me again whenever I'm not around.
Pissing match. I am very angry about this.
Quote
Face it Cindy, (or do you prefer Alan?) you're pathetic.
Wasn't that proven to be untrue? You can see I follow fornits drama closely, and know which threads should be allowed to continue, and which one's not. I was an enforcer in the program so I know a lot about censorship and using personal insults to affect people's behavior.
Quote
You've contributed nothing except an laughable attempt to further the abuse of kids. Too bad you just arent smart enough to convince anyone of anything. As to your "personal experiences", you have none that relate to this field. Your daughter does, hence why she hates you.
Pissing match. You might not know it, but I will soon be a moderator (I'm practicing right now) and then I won't have to ask you to shut up. I will just delete your posts. Enjoy your posting freedom while it lasts.
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2008, 12:57:35 PM
::) ::)
You're right. These pissing matches contribute so much to the discussion. How dare I have an opinion of my own. Shame on me.
:moon:
There isn't enough money in the world that would get me to moderate any discussion, let alone here.
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2008, 01:00:36 PM
Quote from: "io;una;r"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"Cindy, this has been proven time and again.
Good. Then drop it. I have nothing better to do than police fornits for threads I don't like.
Blah blah blah
Leave RB and Who alone! (Quick! Where's a picture of that guy was so upset at people making fun of Britney Spears?)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... ocker1.JPG (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/Crocker1.JPG)
You could have at least left this in the thread it was posted instead of spreading it to another.
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2008, 01:01:25 PM
Quote from: "io;una;r"
glad you're back but not happy you're doing this again
Shucks. I was hoping you would regail us with more tales of what makes you happy and not happy. :'(
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2008, 01:02:42 PM
Quote from: "moving posts?"
You could have at least left this in the thread it was posted instead of spreading it to another.
Welcome to the world of I can do whatever the fuck I want. :moon:
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2008, 01:03:07 PM
Quote from: "clever"
Quote from: "io;una;r"glad you're back but not happy you're doing this again
Shucks. I was hoping you would regail us with more tales of what makes you happy and not happy. :'(
Maybe later if I have time. And if you ask really really nicely.
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2008, 01:04:31 PM
Quote from: "hugs"
Quote from: "moving posts?"
You could have at least left this in the thread it was posted instead of spreading it to another.
Welcome to the world of I can do whatever the fuck I want. :moon:
Sure ya can Sparky! Go for it. But you look kind of silly doing it while complaining about gunking up threads with stupid crap.
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2008, 01:04:43 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Maybe later if I have time. And if you ask really really nicely.
If you have time to police a who thread, I'm already know you have plenty to spare. :sue:
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2008, 01:07:08 PM
Policing means that you actually have some control over the situation. I merely have an opinion and am stating said opinion. Maybe consulting a dictionary would clear things up for you.
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2008, 01:08:20 PM
Quote from: "aliudcmf"
But you look kind of silly doing it while complaining about gunking up threads with stupid crap.
Oh no, a guest in a who thread on fornits says I look silly. What ever shall I do, the shame is overwhelming. :cry:
Post by: Froderik on September 24, 2008, 01:09:12 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2008, 01:09:48 PM
Quote from: "sejkniua"
You didn't ask nicely.
Policing means that you actually have some control over the situation. I merely have an opinion and am stating said opinion. Maybe consulting a dictionary would clear things up for you.
That's what makes it funny. You are a wannabe moderator. You tell people their posts make you unhappy and assume anybody cares. I laugh at that because it's funny.
Post by: Froderik on September 24, 2008, 01:10:43 PM
Quote from: "the system"
At least one new post has been made to this topic. You may wish to review your post in light of this.Not likely! :D
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2008, 01:12:00 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "aliudcmf"
But you look kind of silly doing it while complaining about gunking up threads with stupid crap.
Oh no, a guest in a who thread on fornits says I look silly. What ever shall I do, the shame is overwhelming. :cry:
Yeah, I had the same feeling when you altered my post. It was just devastating.
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2008, 01:13:45 PM
Quote from: "ftbhs"
Yeah, I had the same feeling when you altered my post. It was just devastating.
Well ... I wouldn't want to make you not happy. I hope this post makes you happy. If it doesn't, be sure to let me know.
Post by: Froderik on September 24, 2008, 01:14:20 PM
Quote from: "ftbhs"
:DQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "aliudcmf"
But you look kind of silly doing it while complaining about gunking up threads with stupid crap.
Oh no, a guest in a who thread on fornits says I look silly. What ever shall I do, the shame is overwhelming. :cry:
Yeah, I had the same feeling when you altered my post. It was just devastating.
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2008, 01:14:46 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "sejkniua"You didn't ask nicely.
Policing means that you actually have some control over the situation. I merely have an opinion and am stating said opinion. Maybe consulting a dictionary would clear things up for you.
That's what makes it funny. You are a wannabe moderator. You tell people their posts make you unhappy and assume anybody cares. I laugh at that because it's funny.
Posts don't make me 'unhappy'....ROFL. RB's pissing matches with Who frustrate me at times. And I don't assume anyone cares. I KNOW they don't and I could give a damn. I posted what I thought and will continue to do so. You have a problem with it. So what. I'm sure somehow you'll get over it.
Post by: Froderik on September 24, 2008, 01:15:22 PM
Post by: Froderik on September 24, 2008, 01:16:12 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2008, 01:16:31 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "ftbhs"
Yeah, I had the same feeling when you altered my post. It was just devastating.
Well ... I wouldn't want to make you not happy. I hope this post makes you happy. If it doesn't, be sure to let me know.
I will. Good to see you care.
;D :moon:
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2008, 01:17:24 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Posts don't make me 'unhappy'....ROFL. RB's pissing matches with Who frustrate me at times. And I don't assume anyone cares. I KNOW they don't and I could give a damn. I posted what I thought and will continue to do so. You have a problem with it. So what. I'm sure somehow you'll get over it.
You seem angry... remember it's just a forum, you need to relax. I was joking around with your post because it was funny, don't take everything so seriously, it's just the internet.
Post by: Froderik on September 24, 2008, 01:19:12 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 24, 2008, 01:24:10 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
You seem angry... remember it's just a forum, you need to relax. I was joking around with your post because it was funny, don't take everything so seriously, it's just the internet.
Well, relax. I'm not happy or unhappy about anything you've posted. I'm killing time.
Post by: RobertBruce on September 24, 2008, 03:19:25 PM
:)
Post by: TheWho on September 24, 2008, 06:37:41 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
You have a problem with it. So what. I'm sure somehow you'll get over it.
:)
Do what you want, all I am saying is you get thewho to post his dam statistics everytime you show up. Everything was fine until then. Is that what you want? Why poke him with a stick?
Post by: RobertBruce on September 24, 2008, 07:16:02 PM
Post by: TheWho on September 24, 2008, 07:31:03 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
As I mentioned, Cindy only posts his bs numbers whenever he's at a loss for things to say. He's apparently arrogant enough to think that people actually believe them, so he hides behind them in an attempt to appear like he knows what he's talking about. You can basically take his posting them as a sign that he's on the ropes.
No, he posts them when you are around and you know it! Dont be a dick
Post by: RobertBruce on September 24, 2008, 10:41:27 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 25, 2008, 09:43:17 AM
Here's the real Who's message to the false who, for Fornits.
[i]We ain't gonna take you
Never did and never will
We're not gonna take you
We forsake you
Gonna rape you
Let's forget you better still[/i]
Post by: TheWho on September 25, 2008, 03:03:11 PM
Quote from: "Pete Townshend"
Look, I've been seeing this plonker calling himself the who for ages and kept my mouth shut but I have to say this: who person, you're a fucking sadistic wanker. Fuck off.
Here's the real Who's message to the false who, for Fornits.
[i]We ain't gonna take you
Never did and never will
We're not gonna take you
We forsake you
Gonna rape you
Let's forget you better still[/i]
Dam you Townshend for coming on here that way, keep your bloody opinions directed towards music.
Is your perception of 'I Heard It Through the Grapevine' so shallow that it's violated by dancing raisins?
We have had this discussion before. If this is really you then you will know the answer to that.
...
Post by: TheWho on September 30, 2008, 11:08:31 AM
...
Post by: psy on October 01, 2008, 12:10:50 AM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Kind of an embarrassing story but last Sunday I took the kids to church while my wife stayed home, which was a change because I don’t normally go, I hate going but we do it for the kids. But anyway I came home with a black eye and my kids don’t want me to go with them to church anymore. But I was standing there in church and was really board and the woman in front of me had a what appeared to be a really uncomfortable wedgy so I reached over and pulled it out, figuring it would make her feel more comfortable. She turned around and gave me the most unbelievable dirty look I have ever seen. I know what you are thinking and my wife asked me the same thing… “When did I get the black eye?”. Well I figured she probably liked it that way so after thinking about it awhile I tucked it back in for her.
...
LOL. So it's not just us.
Post by: TheWho on October 02, 2008, 08:27:36 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "TheWho"Kind of an embarrassing story but last Sunday I took the kids to church while my wife stayed home, which was a change because I don’t normally go, I hate going but we do it for the kids. But anyway I came home with a black eye and my kids don’t want me to go with them to church anymore. But I was standing there in church and was really board and the woman in front of me had a what appeared to be a really uncomfortable wedgy so I reached over and pulled it out, figuring it would make her feel more comfortable. She turned around and gave me the most unbelievable dirty look I have ever seen. I know what you are thinking and my wife asked me the same thing… “When did I get the black eye?”. Well I figured she probably liked it that way so after thinking about it awhile I tucked it back in for her.
...
LOL. So it's not just us.
I know it is funny looking back, but, dam, I have trouble with those social cues I guess. I had no idea she would hit me just for that.
...
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2008, 01:54:03 AM
Quote from: "psy"
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Yoga Mat
Date: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:18 pm
From: TheWho (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2760)
To: AntigenQuote from: "TheWho"(Sniveling dreck omitted. He's announcing his retirement and the auctioning of his outpost of misinformation. TheWho is "I" and not "we" in his PM's.)
...
Sent September 23, and then this announcement dated 9/25 appears on StragglingTurds 9/26:
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Aspen Education Group
Cerritos, CA
Mike Ervin Returns to Aspen Education Group
Contact:
Sue Crowell
Sr. Vice President
Outdoor Division
828-684-8667
[email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]) or 828-684-2168.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Looks like theWho/Mike Ervin finally got a new gig working for his Aspenic masters. No more days spent sitting on your ass trolling Fornits, watching porn and eating Cheetos.
See you around, orange dick.
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2008, 02:21:24 AM
http://www.juju.com/keyword/no-ged-need
Residential Supervisor: Aspen Education Group (Rimrock, AZ) ...a boarding school ... have other questions, please call Mike Ervin @ (800) 594-7036 Ext. 120. ...
http://www.juju.com/keyword/no-ged-need (http://www.juju.com/keyword/no-ged-need) - 31k - Cached
(http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:iW_ ... =firefox-a (http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:iW_yS4gkMG4J:www.juju.com/keyword/no-ged-need+%22Mike+Ervin%22+Aspen+education+group&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=16&gl=us&client=firefox-a) -)
Post by: TheWho on October 06, 2008, 10:50:37 AM
King Crimson was great in its time as were many people and groups and they continue to be.
If Ian Anderson (for example from Tull) were to plow his car into a crowd of school kids I would be sad for the children and for Anderson but it would not (nor should not) diminish a drug fueled elation of being first row in the spectrum experiencing Ian Andersons energy playing “locomotive breath” and “aqualung” live 10 feet away. These memories are permanently seared in my memory.
Anything and everything happening after that would not define that moment for me nor alter it. I think that is where many of you get caught up. You see a very negative piece of the early roots of programs of the past as their presiding definition in the present and future. Although we should not forget the horrors of the past we need to be cognizant of the fact that they do not necessarily define the present or future.
Queen Jimson wrote:
Quote
Ian McDonald whored himself musically by starting the most lame Muzak group Foreigner. Peter Sinfield writes drivel for Celine Dion these days.
Hacks like yourself, Whobag.
The reason you are struggling is that you are experiencing who they are today and trying to make a connection with who they were when they wrote those words, try to enjoy the music in its defining moment as it was presented then. I think you will enjoy a whole new perspective. Its a “Lyrics thread” after all.
...
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2008, 11:37:18 AM
Quote from: "TheWho"
From “The Lyrics Thread”
(SNORE)
...
Quote from: "TheWho"
The reason you are struggling is that you are experiencing who they are today and trying to make a connection with who they were when they wrote those words, try to enjoy the music in its defining moment as it was presented then. I think you will enjoy a whole new perspective. Its a “Lyrics thread” after all.
...
There is a Lyrics thread so why have you dragged this here? I forgot, this is your pulpit. I'm not "struggling" Mike. After all it's only music. You on the other hand: partner's confused, homes. Since you're a fan of pompous Prog Rock like Crimson you should realize how this song captures a "defining moment": your departure. Experience it Mike. "Make a connection" with who these stoned poofters were then when they wrote these words that sum you up. Don't lapse into your typical denial. Keep struggling with it until you understand what we are trying to tell you.
King Crimson "Epitaph"
Between the iron gates of fate,
The seeds of time were sown,
And watered by the deeds of those
Who know and who are known;
Knowledge is a deadly friend
When no one sets the rules.
The fate of all mankind I see
Is in the hands of fools.
Confusion will be my epitaph.
As I crawl a cracked and broken path
If we make it we can all sit back
And laugh.
But I fear tomorrow I'll be crying,
Yes I fear tomorrow I'll be crying.
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2008, 01:01:30 PM
Quote from: "Ruck Maker"
Quote from: "psy"-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Yoga Mat
Date: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:18 pm
From: TheWho (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2760)
To: AntigenQuote from: "TheWho"(Sniveling dreck omitted. He's announcing his retirement and the auctioning of his outpost of misinformation. TheWho is "I" and not "we" in his PM's.)
...
Sent September 23, and then this announcement dated 9/25 appears on StragglingTurds 9/26:
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Aspen Education Group
Cerritos, CA
Mike Ervin Returns to Aspen Education Group
Contact:
Sue Crowell
Sr. Vice President
Outdoor Division
828-684-8667
[email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]) or 828-684-2168.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Looks like theWho/Mike Ervin finally got a new gig working for his Aspenic masters. No more days spent sitting on your ass trolling Fornits, watching porn and eating Cheetos.
See you around, orange dick.
::OMG::
:rasta: :rasta: :hug: :D
Anyone called him yet??
Post by: TheWho on October 06, 2008, 01:05:06 PM
Quote
There is a Lyrics thread so why have you dragged this here?
I enjoy the lyrics thread for what it is and didn’t want you to troll all over it. We should “let it be” lyrics.
The "Epitaph" is great!.... I do appreciate the lyrics, thanks.
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2008, 01:07:01 PM
Quote from: "QUEEN JIMSON"
There is a Lyrics thread so why have you dragged this here?
To take attention away from the posts previous to that. He doesn't like being called out.
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2008, 02:18:17 PM
Quote from: "deflector"
Quote from: "QUEEN JIMSON"There is a Lyrics thread so why have you dragged this here?
To take attention away from the posts previous to that. He doesn't like being called out.
I thought the same thing. He dragged in a ludicrous defense of song lyrics as a buffer. We'll fix that.
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2008, 02:28:20 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
QuoteThere is a Lyrics thread so why have you dragged this here?
I enjoy the lyrics thread for what it is and didn’t want you to troll all over it. We should “let it be” lyrics.
THE WHO IS UPSET BECAUSE SOMEONE TROLLED A THREAD? ONE POST IS NOT TROLLING WHO. YOU KNOW WHAT CONSTITUTES TROLLING. HE'S MAD BECAUSE HE WAS MOCKED WHEN SOMEONE CHANGED THE LYRICS OF HIS DINOSAUR ROCK SONG:
Quote from: "Queen Jimson"
Quote from: "TheWho"I Piss in the Wind
McDonald-Sinfield
Said the Str8 man to the lame man
Why are you here
I'm sent here and I'm sent there
And I'm trolling your asses.
I piss in the wind
My words are all pissing away
I piss in the wind
The piss does not hear
The piss cannot hear.
I'm on the outside looking inside
What shall "we" be
Much confusion, disillusion
spammed around by "we".
You all possess me
I impress me
Facts upset my mind
Can't instruct me only fuck me
Right up my behind.
I piss in the wind
My words are always laughed away
I piss in the wind
Fornits does drink beer
The Who gets no beer.
BRRRAAAAAAAPPPPPP!!!!
You been dick ridin' us for ages, troll shit. Shove it up your arse and fuck off while you're doing it. You picked a good song for yourself. Ian McDonald whored himself musically by starting the most lame Muzak group Foreigner. Peter Sinfield writes drivel for Celine Dion these days.
Hacks like yourself, Whobag.
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2008, 02:52:07 PM
Subject: Yoga Mat
Date: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:18 pm
From: TheWho (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2760)
To: Antigen
Quote from: "TheWho"
(Sniveling dreck omitted. He's announcing his retirement and the auctioning of his outpost of misinformation. TheWho is "I" and not "we" in his PM's.)
...
Sent September 23, and then this announcement dated 9/25 appears on StragglingTurds 9/26:
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Aspen Education Group
Cerritos, CA
Mike Ervin Returns to Aspen Education Group
Contact:
Sue Crowell
Sr. Vice President
Outdoor Division
828-684-8667
[email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]) or 828-684-2168.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Looks like theWho/Mike Ervin finally got a new gig working for his Aspenic masters. No more days spent sitting on your ass trolling Fornits, watching porn and eating Cheetos.
See you around, orange dick.[/quote]
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
No GED Need Jobs | Juju Job Search
http://www.juju.com/keyword/no-ged-need
Residential Supervisor: Aspen Education Group (Rimrock, AZ) ...a boarding school ... have other questions, please call Mike Ervin @ (800) 594-7036 Ext. 120. ...
http://www.juju.com/keyword/no-ged-need (http://www.juju.com/keyword/no-ged-need) - 31k - Cached
(http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:iW_ ... =firefox-a (http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:iW_yS4gkMG4J:www.juju.com/keyword/no-ged-need+%22Mike+Ervin%22+Aspen+education+group&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=16&gl=us&client=firefox-a) -)
Post by: Froderik on October 06, 2008, 03:00:48 PM
A. One to screw it in, the other 499,000 to fuck, suck, lick, and generally sodomize and incestualize each other; pissing, scatting, rusty trumpeting, dirty sanchezing, flute slurpeling, pussy scatting, cocksmoking, cumming, kicking, confronting, marathoning, felating, puking violently, punching, spitting, felching, farting and just generally arguing with one another while the one poor fucker tries to get the lightbulb in. I forgot to mention that the 231pg spaminator has to get involved in all of this while the one fornitscator is screwing in the lightbulb.
Post by: dishdutyfugitive on October 06, 2008, 03:47:30 PM
(...not that it matters but technically it's a rusty trombone)
Post by: TheWho on October 06, 2008, 03:48:01 PM
Quote
THE WHO IS UPSET BECAUSE SOMEONE TROLLED A THREAD? ONE POST IS NOT TROLLING WHO. YOU KNOW WHAT CONSTITUTES TROLLING.Ha,Ha,Ha You can see I was right. It is never just one post. I know when I am being trolled.
Quote
HE'S MAD BECAUSE HE WAS MOCKED WHEN SOMEONE CHANGED THE LYRICS OF HIS DINOSAUR ROCK SONG:
Wow, sensitive bunch today. You are the first person to ever mock me, congratulations. Most people know thewho thread is the best place for conversations like these, so I redirected the conversation. We can continue on the lyrics thread if you like, but I just thought the trolling would better fit here. Link it back if you like.
...
Post by: TheWho on October 06, 2008, 03:52:20 PM
Quote
....No more days spent sitting on your ass trolling Fornits, watching porn and eating Cheetos.
That was uncalled for and is very insulting, "Cheese Curls" are the only thing I munch on while on fornits.
Post by: TheWho on October 06, 2008, 04:15:51 PM
Quote
No GED Need Jobs | Juju Job Search
http://www.juju.com/keyword/no-ged-need (http://www.juju.com/keyword/no-ged-need)
Residential Supervisor: Aspen Education Group (Rimrock, AZ) ...a boarding school ... have other questions, please call Mike Ervin @ (800) 594-7036 Ext. 120. ...
http://www.juju.com/keyword/no-ged-need (http://www.juju.com/keyword/no-ged-need) - 31k - Cached
(http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:iW_ (http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:iW_) ... =firefox-a -)
Wow, brings back memories of Deborah. She use to put up job postings and then make fun of the people who wanted to help kids or were trying to better themselves thru education. These were hard working people who enjoyed helping others. (which it was obvious that she couldn’t relate to people like that). If you believe in Karma she is probably working 60 hours a week for like $15 an hour and the people around her are posting pictures of her on the internet and making fun of her family. Payback is a bitch sometimes... well not always in that gender form, but you know what I mean.
"What goes around comes around"
...
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2008, 04:40:02 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Geeesh I just read this:QuoteNo GED Need Jobs | Juju Job Search
http://www.juju.com/keyword/no-ged-need (http://www.juju.com/keyword/no-ged-need)
Residential Supervisor: Aspen Education Group (Rimrock, AZ) ...a boarding school ... have other questions, please call Mike Ervin @ (800) 594-7036 Ext. 120. ...
http://www.juju.com/keyword/no-ged-need (http://www.juju.com/keyword/no-ged-need) - 31k - Cached
(http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:iW_ (http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:iW_) ... =firefox-a -)
Wow, brings back memories of Deborah. She use to put up job postings and then make fun of the people who wanted to help kids or were trying to better themselves thru education. These were hard working people who enjoyed helping others. (which it was obvious that she couldn’t relate to people like that). If you believe in Karma she is probably working 60 hours a week for like $15 an hour and the people around her are posting pictures of her on the internet and making fun of her family. Payback is a bitch sometimes... well not always in that gender form, but you know what I mean.
"What goes around comes around"
...
Listen to Ervin's wheels spin. Nowhere in the ad does it say Aspen will help these GED'ers "better themselves thru education". That ad isn't for line staff Mike. It's for the residential supervisor. The line staff positions must only require a pulse and a proclivity toward extreme violence. Aspen doesn't want counselors, they want grunts, prison guards.
Turning this into a chance to attack Deborah when she is not even on the forum anymore? You're a classy guy Ervin and you are showing the extent of your bravery. What a sniveling, mealymouthed unctuous twat. Who hits the chicken switch for you Erv? Who's meat puppet are you?
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2008, 04:45:54 PM
Post by: TheWho on October 06, 2008, 04:50:57 PM
utube (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bomv-6CJSfM)
She was a fast machine, she kept her motor clean
She was the best damn woman that I ever seen
She had the sightless eyes, telling me no lies
Knockin' me out with those American thighs
Taking more than her share, had me fighting for air
She told me to come but I was already there
{Refrain}
'Cause the walls start shaking, the earth was quaking
My mind was aching and we were making it
And you shook me all night long
Yeah, you shook me all night long
Working double time on the seduction line
She was one of a kind, she's just mine all mine
She wanted no applause, just another course
Made a meal out of me and came back for more
Had to cool me down to take another round
Now I'm back in the ring to take another swing
{Refrain}
And knocked me out and then you shook me all night long
You had me shakin' and you shook me all night long
Yeah you shook me, well you took me
You really took me and you shook me all night long
Ooooh, you shook me all night long
Yeah, yeah, you shook me all night long
Your really took me and you shook me all night long
Yeah you shook me, yeah you shook me
All night long
Post by: TheWho on October 06, 2008, 04:58:04 PM
Quote
Listen to Ervin's wheels spin. Nowhere in the ad does it say Aspen will help these GED'ers "better themselves thru education". That ad isn't for line staff Mike. It's for the residential supervisor. The line staff positions must only require a pulse and a proclivity toward extreme violence. Aspen doesn't want counselors, they want grunts, prison guards.
Just a walk down memory lane....Never did Deborah offer to enlighten us on what qualifications she felt were needed for those various positions. Didnt matter if it were a GED position or doctorate......Just took the opportunity to purge hatred upon others whom she never knew for the sheer satisfaction of hurting someone she didn’t have to face. To me she was the face of fornits back then.
...
Post by: TheWho on October 06, 2008, 07:21:18 PM
Quote
...That ad isn't for line staff Mike. It's for the residential supervisor.
So, you still havent told us what you think the persons qualifications should be to fill the shoes of Residential supervisor. Are you filling in for Deborah?
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2008, 08:10:14 PM
Post by: TheWho on October 06, 2008, 08:16:03 PM
Quote from: "MikeE is TheWho"
The old man still has a hard on for deborah, how sad.
Could be, but it is clear the old guy didnt like her very much.
Post by: TheWho on October 06, 2008, 08:31:41 PM
http://http://familylight.com/
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2008, 08:34:58 PM
Quote from: "MikeE"
Quote...That ad isn't for line staff Mike. It's for the residential supervisor.
So, you still havent told us what you think the persons qualifications should be to fill the shoes of Residential supervisor. Are you filling in for Deborah?
Settle down you whinging whimpering emasculated harpy.
Anybody conducting group therapy with the kids needs more than a GED. An LCSW at the very least. I'll be less demanding than a lot of your targeted cash cow parents and even accept students working toward their degrees.
The curriculum vitae on every individual working in a program should be readily available to parents who want background on the staff they're entrusting their kids to. Considering the cost of Aspen's programs, do you think your paying customers want line staff with GED's for the money they're putting out?
This question of line staff credentials has upset you hasn't it? Your in a criminal business. Become a smart criminal and don't put ads on the internet displaying your willingness to take unqualified staff.
While we're talking about it, full criminal background checks should be run on program staff/clinicians and be readily available for parents to review. You want transparency don't you? Hiding shit gets programs in trouble when the shit comes to light. You know that.
We know about the seething hatred you have for Deborah. She called you out on your anonymous trolling and embarrassed you. Humiliated you. You couldn't handle transparency.
Are you a happy boy now Mikey? Eat those cheese curls and watch your she-male porn.
Post by: TheWho on October 06, 2008, 08:36:00 PM
"Cherry Gulch"
Database (http://http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:pHQo9F4xY4sJ:www.familylight.com/link3/3.01/Databaseofprograms041708.xls+%22michael+ervin%22+cherry+gulch&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us)
Post by: TheWho on October 06, 2008, 09:02:16 PM
Quote
Settle down you whinging whimpering emasculated harpy.
Anybody conducting group therapy with the kids needs more than a GED. An LCSW at the very least.
Great, I would rather see a PHd myself for the therapy sessions, but for group a LCSW or better works.
Quote
I'll be less demanding than a lot of your targeted cash cow parents and even accept students working toward their degrees.
Careful now, you might lose some support here.
Quote
The curriculum vitae on every individual working in a program should be readily available to parents who want background on the staff they're entrusting their kids to. Considering the cost of Aspen's programs, do you think your paying customers want line staff with GED's for the money they're putting out?
Sure, any parent can call and ask for the information that they feel they need to help them make the best decision for their child. If the job calls for a doctorate then hire a doctorate, if it can be accomplished by someone less qualified then why waste peoples money. Why should a residential supervisor who sits at a desk from midnight till 8:00 am need to be a doctor. Maybe they need to be able to use the phone to call a doctor... lets review the job description and duties first.
Quote
This question of line staff credentials has upset you hasn't it? Your in a criminal business. Become a smart criminal and don't put ads on the internet displaying your willingness to take unqualified staff.
I didn’t see the question of “Line staff” come up. We were talking about “Residential supervisor”.
Quote
While we're talking about it, full criminal background checks should be run on program staff/clinicians and be readily available for parents to review. You want transparency don't you? Hiding shit gets programs in trouble when the shit comes to light. You know that.
Way ahead of you. This has been on my list for a long time. I would also like to add that a third independent party sign off on all placements i.e. child therapist, school counsellor etc.
Quote
We know about the seething hatred you have for Deborah. She called you out on your anonymous trolling and embarrassed you. Humiliated you. You couldn't handle transparency.
Well actually I am still here and she has left. I held her feet to the fire on the list she used to publish about kids dying in programs. If any of you remember any kid could make the list if they were driving by a program or were at home thinking about a program when they died. I debunked that quick enough. Then there were the list of staff who she claimed were unlicensed and posted expired licenses as back up. I systematically researched and found each one to be licensed within the state they were practicing. She was very deceiving and I called her out and exposed her tactics. Shall I continue...? So I would agree that one of us could not handle transparency or the embarrassment but it wasn’t I.
Quote
Are you a happy boy now Mikey? Eat those cheese curls and watch your she-male porn.
Yes I am and thank you for correcting my eating habits, I do favor the cheese curls over the cheetos.
So you never answered the question... What are your requirements for a Residental Supervisor? and why do you not want to employ people without a GED?
...
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2008, 09:55:37 PM
:blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho:
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:blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho:
:blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho: :blabla: :guesswho:
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Post by: Che Gookin on October 06, 2008, 10:18:05 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 07, 2008, 12:06:53 AM
Quote from: "TheWho"
So you never answered the question... What are your requirements for a Residental Supervisor?
...
Huh? I'm sorry. You're like Dubya Bush and need information delivered as simply as possible.
LCSW for the Residential Supervisor. It's the standard for many licensed programs. Don't you agree? Or would you rather have the supervisor of the laymen be a layman as well?
Quote from: "TheWho"
and why do you not want to employ people without a GED?
...
Come again? Why do I not want to employ people...without a GED? Dude. How long have you been that high? You must be sucking that glass dick again. Go ahead and hire staff lacking even GEDs. Hire staff with GEDs and make it clear to the parents that they pulled their kids out of public schools to be treated by people who didn't make it through public schools. I know some folks get GED's because of extraordinary circumstances, but for the money you're asking for some parents are going to want experience AND an educational background in treating adolescents. You know people will balk if they discover the staff spending the most time with their kids don't have bachelor degrees. They'll take their money elsewhere if they find out staff don't even have GEDs regardless of your whining defense of their questionable skill sets.
Get away from your keyboard and back to those Cheesy Poofs. Busy your hands elsewhere. I'm more interested in these links being posted by the guest. Family Light looks like a grand deception. Figures you're involved. This Tommy Croke guy has all the earmarks of a true buttplug.
Post by: Anonymous on October 07, 2008, 12:41:12 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Uh Hum
"Cherry Gulch"
Database (http://http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:pHQo9F4xY4sJ:www.familylight.com/link3/3.01/Databaseofprograms041708.xls+%22michael+ervin%22+cherry+gulch&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us)
Unh-uh. No, no, no. A place called "Cherry Gulch" for 10-14 year old boys offering "A wide variety of activities and learning experiences" delivered by "Mr. Robert", "Mr. Steve", "Mr. Wayne", and "Elmo the canine therapist"? It sounds like a pedophile paradise sponsored by NAMBLA. If you can't see that your son's junk will be liberally fondled by "Mr. Wayne" and his pals, you should not have been allowed to reproduce. I don't want to think about what Elmo the canine therapist's functions. I'll bet Elmo's credentials are more legit than those of Mr. Robert, Mr. Steve, or Mr. Wayne. And Elmo only licks his own balls.
Post by: Anonymous on October 07, 2008, 01:53:36 AM
Family Light
Aspen/CRC Marketing
We are very concerned about the aggressive marketing conducted by the Aspen Education Group. Too often we hear of clinicians advising parents that sending their child to a therapeutic program away from home is only a good idea if it is an Aspen program. Clinicians who give that advice are falling victim to this aggressive marketing. Many Aspen programs are good programs, but people who speak as if they are the only good programs are at best misinformed. Aspen is very generous with perks for their loyal referral sources. We are not suggesting anything as black and white unethical as cash payments. In a future revision of this page, we will include more detail on how this process actually works.
An example of aggressive marketing that applies to individuals searching on the Internet (as opposed to potential referral sources) is http://www.teenboardingschools.com/ (http://www.teenboardingschools.com/) . The website http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/r ... chools.com (http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?domain=teenboardingschools.com) checked on March 6, 2008, indicates that http://www.teenboardingschools.com/ (http://www.teenboardingschools.com/) is a domain owned by "Aspen Education Group, 17777 Center Court Drive, Suite 300,Cerritos, CA 90703, US." Until we called attention to this on the listserv for the IECA, this website gave the appearance of being a neutral search website for parents seeking resources on the web. (We have edited this page on March 15, 2008, as we note that the CRC logo was then added to this website, acknowledging who is behind it and no longer totally concealing the conflict of interest). We also believe that if CRC/Aspen really wanted people to know that this website is a marketing arm of the Aspen programs, it would put the Aspen and CRC logos at the top and bottom of every page and turn it into a link to the the web sites of those companies.
Until that correction was made, that website appeared to direct users only to Aspen facilities while concealing that Aspen, CRC Health, or Bain Capital had anything to do with it. Articles, such as the one at http://www.teenboardingschools.com/bootcamps.htm (http://www.teenboardingschools.com/bootcamps.htm) entitled "Boot Camps Don't Work" did not disclose that it was posted on the web site of a company that does not operate boot camps but does operate many programs considered by people to be competitors to boot camps. We at FamilyLightsm agree with what the article says, but we are concerned about the value system of a business that would run this kind of self serving web site without disclosing their financial interest in the guidance offered.
We repeat for emphasis that the correction occurred only after FamilyLightsm discovered the existence of this website and circulated the information throughout IECA. The acknowledgment of ownership appears only on the home page, so far as we are aware. If Aspen/CRC really wanted people to see it, we suspect it would be on every page.
When you get a recommendation suggesting that only Aspen programs should be considered, you need to challenge at once the competence and/or the ethics of the person making that recommendation. If the recommendation is for a specific program, the recommendation might be solid, based on solid reasons why that particular Aspen program is right for your situation. However we see no reason why a competent and ethical referring professional would claim that Aspen programs in general are so superior to all others in general, that only Aspen programs are appropriate for consideration, but we do hear of people making that claim. If you hear that from a person recommending programs, you need to ask that person two questions immediately, then be skeptical regarding any advice and direction from that person. The two questions are: (1) What comparable non-Aspen programs have you actually investigated? and (2) What favors, travel, perks, educational benefits and other items of value has the Aspen/CRC organization provided you? Then find a second opinion, if not a replacement for the person who gave you that advice. .
FamilyLightsm sometimes recommends some Aspen programs to some families. We are not stating that there is no quality here. There are also some Aspen programs to which we will not refer. We are not alleging actual bribery or cash payoffs. But we are concerned that people are choosing Aspen facilities due to manipulation of referral sources and manipulation of families searching on the web. We think it is a shame that this company, that does offer a great deal of quality, damages its credibility with the behavior of its marketing divisions. (Web marketing and personal marketing to referral sources are handled by different divisions).
Remember, an Aspen/CRC program might still be right for you or your child. Do not exclude consideration of Aspen/CRC program just because of what we say here. But make sure you base your decision on information from sources that can evaluate the benefits and shortcomings of both Aspen/CRC and non-Aspen/CRC programs and will do so objectively.
Also, remember that the problem is with marketing efforts at the corporate level. At most Aspen facilities, the admission people tell a straight story. Beware of unscrupulous Aspen marketers posing as parents of former Aspen/CRC patients on the internet. They will claim an Aspen/CRC program saved their child's life and attempt to steer you directly to Aspen/CRC referral websites. Ask anyone endorsing Aspen/CRC exclusively to recommend a similar program not affiliated with Aspen/CRC or Bain Capital. An Aspen marketer will claim no knowledge of other programs or will harshly criticize Aspen competitors. If the individual is vague about their experience with an Aspen/CRC program and will only say it was a success, keep asking for specific aspects of their program experience. Press for details and if the "parent" becomes evasive or combative, be skeptical of their endorsement.
Last revised August 15, 2008
Post by: TheWho on October 07, 2008, 07:53:17 AM
Quote
Remember, an Aspen/CRC program might still be right for you or your child. Do not exclude consideration of Aspen/CRC program just because of what we say here. But make sure you base your decision on information from sources that can evaluate the benefits and shortcomings of both Aspen/CRC and non-Aspen/CRC programs and will do so objectively.
Also, remember that the problem is with marketing efforts at the corporate level. At most Aspen facilities, the admission people tell a straght story.
“Family Light” provides an excellent service.
I also would like to add to this that it is always a good idea to trust your instincts as parents. There are many different types of programs out there and not all of them will be a good fit for every child. What I suggest is to ask to speak to a few of the parents who had children attend the program. Of course they will be parents of kids who were successful, but this will give you an opportunity to speak parent to parent with concerns unique to parents. I found this very helpful myself. You may also want to visit the campus and speak to the admissions people and a few of the children who are attending.
...
Post by: Froderik on October 07, 2008, 11:06:37 AM
Quote from: "PROGRAMMED TO BE DEFIANT"
Unh-uh. No, no, no. A place called "Cherry Gulch" for 10-14 year old boys offering "A wide variety of activities and learning experiences" delivered by "Mr. Robert", "Mr. Steve", "Mr. Wayne", and "Elmo the canine therapist"? It sounds like a pedophile paradise sponsored by NAMBLA. If you can't see that your son's junk will be liberally fondled by "Mr. Wayne" and his pals, you should not have been allowed to reproduce. I don't want to think about what Elmo the canine therapist's functions. I'll bet Elmo's credentials are more legit than those of Mr. Robert, Mr. Steve, or Mr. Wayne. And Elmo only licks his own balls.:D :D :D
Post by: TheWho on October 07, 2008, 07:26:31 PM
Quote
I don't want to think about what Elmo the canine therapist's functions.
I couldnt take it anymore so I called and they told me he conducted mostly "Roll" playing.
...
Post by: Guest on October 08, 2008, 09:47:02 AM
Quote from: "Aspen's deceptive marketing"
Asshole! Read what this asshole says about the assholes you serve. You might want to troll this guy from now on. He hates you. http://www.familylight.com/link3/3.03/3 ... arket.html (http://www.familylight.com/link3/3.03/3.031/aspenmarket.html)
Family Light
Aspen/CRC Marketing
We are very concerned about the aggressive marketing conducted by the Aspen Education Group. Too often we hear of clinicians advising parents that sending their child to a therapeutic program away from home is only a good idea if it is an Aspen program. Clinicians who give that advice are falling victim to this aggressive marketing. Many Aspen programs are good programs, but people who speak as if they are the only good programs are at best misinformed. Aspen is very generous with perks for their loyal referral sources. We are not suggesting anything as black and white unethical as cash payments. In a future revision of this page, we will include more detail on how this process actually works.
An example of aggressive marketing that applies to individuals searching on the Internet (as opposed to potential referral sources) is http://www.teenboardingschools.com/ (http://www.teenboardingschools.com/) . The website http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/r ... chools.com (http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?domain=teenboardingschools.com) checked on March 6, 2008, indicates that http://www.teenboardingschools.com/ (http://www.teenboardingschools.com/) is a domain owned by "Aspen Education Group, 17777 Center Court Drive, Suite 300,Cerritos, CA 90703, US." Until we called attention to this on the listserv for the IECA, this website gave the appearance of being a neutral search website for parents seeking resources on the web. (We have edited this page on March 15, 2008, as we note that the CRC logo was then added to this website, acknowledging who is behind it and no longer totally concealing the conflict of interest). We also believe that if CRC/Aspen really wanted people to know that this website is a marketing arm of the Aspen programs, it would put the Aspen and CRC logos at the top and bottom of every page and turn it into a link to the the web sites of those companies.
Until that correction was made, that website appeared to direct users only to Aspen facilities while concealing that Aspen, CRC Health, or Bain Capital had anything to do with it. Articles, such as the one at http://www.teenboardingschools.com/bootcamps.htm (http://www.teenboardingschools.com/bootcamps.htm) entitled "Boot Camps Don't Work" did not disclose that it was posted on the web site of a company that does not operate boot camps but does operate many programs considered by people to be competitors to boot camps. We at FamilyLightsm agree with what the article says, but we are concerned about the value system of a business that would run this kind of self serving web site without disclosing their financial interest in the guidance offered.
We repeat for emphasis that the correction occurred only after FamilyLightsm discovered the existence of this website and circulated the information throughout IECA. The acknowledgment of ownership appears only on the home page, so far as we are aware. If Aspen/CRC really wanted people to see it, we suspect it would be on every page.
When you get a recommendation suggesting that only Aspen programs should be considered, you need to challenge at once the competence and/or the ethics of the person making that recommendation. If the recommendation is for a specific program, the recommendation might be solid, based on solid reasons why that particular Aspen program is right for your situation. However we see no reason why a competent and ethical referring professional would claim that Aspen programs in general are so superior to all others in general, that only Aspen programs are appropriate for consideration, but we do hear of people making that claim. If you hear that from a person recommending programs, you need to ask that person two questions immediately, then be skeptical regarding any advice and direction from that person. The two questions are: (1) What comparable non-Aspen programs have you actually investigated? and (2) What favors, travel, perks, educational benefits and other items of value has the Aspen/CRC organization provided you? Then find a second opinion, if not a replacement for the person who gave you that advice. .
FamilyLightsm sometimes recommends some Aspen programs to some families. We are not stating that there is no quality here. There are also some Aspen programs to which we will not refer. We are not alleging actual bribery or cash payoffs. But we are concerned that people are choosing Aspen facilities due to manipulation of referral sources and manipulation of families searching on the web. We think it is a shame that this company, that does offer a great deal of quality, damages its credibility with the behavior of its marketing divisions. (Web marketing and personal marketing to referral sources are handled by different divisions).
Remember, an Aspen/CRC program might still be right for you or your child. Do not exclude consideration of Aspen/CRC program just because of what we say here. But make sure you base your decision on information from sources that can evaluate the benefits and shortcomings of both Aspen/CRC and non-Aspen/CRC programs and will do so objectively.
Also, remember that the problem is with marketing efforts at the corporate level. At most Aspen facilities, the admission people tell a straight story. Beware of unscrupulous Aspen marketers posing as parents of former Aspen/CRC patients on the internet. They will claim an Aspen/CRC program saved their child's life and attempt to steer you directly to Aspen/CRC referral websites. Ask anyone endorsing Aspen/CRC exclusively to recommend a similar program not affiliated with Aspen/CRC or Bain Capital. An Aspen marketer will claim no knowledge of other programs or will harshly criticize Aspen competitors. If the individual is vague about their experience with an Aspen/CRC program and will only say it was a success, keep asking for specific aspects of their program experience. Press for details and if the "parent" becomes evasive or combative, be skeptical of their endorsement.
Last revised August 15, 2008
GREAT FIND. Who, what is your name? When was your kid at an aspen rendition center(s)? In what rendition center(s) was she?
Post by: Anonymous on October 08, 2008, 10:06:44 AM
Quote from: "brilliant submission"
Quote from: "Aspen's deceptive marketing"Asshole! Read what this asshole says about the assholes you serve. You might want to troll this guy from now on. He hates you. http://www.familylight.com/link3/3.03/3 ... arket.html (http://www.familylight.com/link3/3.03/3.031/aspenmarket.html)
Family Light
Aspen/CRC Marketing
We are very concerned about the aggressive marketing conducted by the Aspen Education Group. Too often we hear of clinicians advising parents that sending their child to a therapeutic program away from home is only a good idea if it is an Aspen program. Clinicians who give that advice are falling victim to this aggressive marketing. Many Aspen programs are good programs, but people who speak as if they are the only good programs are at best misinformed. Aspen is very generous with perks for their loyal referral sources. We are not suggesting anything as black and white unethical as cash payments. In a future revision of this page, we will include more detail on how this process actually works.
An example of aggressive marketing that applies to individuals searching on the Internet (as opposed to potential referral sources) is http://www.teenboardingschools.com/ (http://www.teenboardingschools.com/) . The website http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/r ... chools.com (http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?domain=teenboardingschools.com) checked on March 6, 2008, indicates that http://www.teenboardingschools.com/ (http://www.teenboardingschools.com/) is a domain owned by "Aspen Education Group, 17777 Center Court Drive, Suite 300,Cerritos, CA 90703, US." Until we called attention to this on the listserv for the IECA, this website gave the appearance of being a neutral search website for parents seeking resources on the web. (We have edited this page on March 15, 2008, as we note that the CRC logo was then added to this website, acknowledging who is behind it and no longer totally concealing the conflict of interest). We also believe that if CRC/Aspen really wanted people to know that this website is a marketing arm of the Aspen programs, it would put the Aspen and CRC logos at the top and bottom of every page and turn it into a link to the the web sites of those companies.
Until that correction was made, that website appeared to direct users only to Aspen facilities while concealing that Aspen, CRC Health, or Bain Capital had anything to do with it. Articles, such as the one at http://www.teenboardingschools.com/bootcamps.htm (http://www.teenboardingschools.com/bootcamps.htm) entitled "Boot Camps Don't Work" did not disclose that it was posted on the web site of a company that does not operate boot camps but does operate many programs considered by people to be competitors to boot camps. We at FamilyLightsm agree with what the article says, but we are concerned about the value system of a business that would run this kind of self serving web site without disclosing their financial interest in the guidance offered.
We repeat for emphasis that the correction occurred only after FamilyLightsm discovered the existence of this website and circulated the information throughout IECA. The acknowledgment of ownership appears only on the home page, so far as we are aware. If Aspen/CRC really wanted people to see it, we suspect it would be on every page.
When you get a recommendation suggesting that only Aspen programs should be considered, you need to challenge at once the competence and/or the ethics of the person making that recommendation. If the recommendation is for a specific program, the recommendation might be solid, based on solid reasons why that particular Aspen program is right for your situation. However we see no reason why a competent and ethical referring professional would claim that Aspen programs in general are so superior to all others in general, that only Aspen programs are appropriate for consideration, but we do hear of people making that claim. If you hear that from a person recommending programs, you need to ask that person two questions immediately, then be skeptical regarding any advice and direction from that person. The two questions are: (1) What comparable non-Aspen programs have you actually investigated? and (2) What favors, travel, perks, educational benefits and other items of value has the Aspen/CRC organization provided you? Then find a second opinion, if not a replacement for the person who gave you that advice. .
FamilyLightsm sometimes recommends some Aspen programs to some families. We are not stating that there is no quality here. There are also some Aspen programs to which we will not refer. We are not alleging actual bribery or cash payoffs. But we are concerned that people are choosing Aspen facilities due to manipulation of referral sources and manipulation of families searching on the web. We think it is a shame that this company, that does offer a great deal of quality, damages its credibility with the behavior of its marketing divisions. (Web marketing and personal marketing to referral sources are handled by different divisions).
Remember, an Aspen/CRC program might still be right for you or your child. Do not exclude consideration of Aspen/CRC program just because of what we say here. But make sure you base your decision on information from sources that can evaluate the benefits and shortcomings of both Aspen/CRC and non-Aspen/CRC programs and will do so objectively.
Also, remember that the problem is with marketing efforts at the corporate level. At most Aspen facilities, the admission people tell a straight story. Beware of unscrupulous Aspen marketers posing as parents of former Aspen/CRC patients on the internet. They will claim an Aspen/CRC program saved their child's life and attempt to steer you directly to Aspen/CRC referral websites. Ask anyone endorsing Aspen/CRC exclusively to recommend a similar program not affiliated with Aspen/CRC or Bain Capital. An Aspen marketer will claim no knowledge of other programs or will harshly criticize Aspen competitors. If the individual is vague about their experience with an Aspen/CRC program and will only say it was a success, keep asking for specific aspects of their program experience. Press for details and if the "parent" becomes evasive or combative, be skeptical of their endorsement.
Last revised August 15, 2008
GREAT FIND. Who, what is your name? When was your kid at an aspen rendition center(s)? In what rendition center(s) was she?
Good luck getting an answer. There's a ton of shit over in the Aspen forum. This one is a particularly enlightening thread. A bit long but if you're interested in either Aspen programs or info on Who from his own mouth, it's worth it.
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=15260 (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=15260)
Post by: TheWho on October 09, 2008, 06:31:44 PM
As an example this paragraph was not part of the “Family light” article:
“Beware of unscrupulous Aspen marketers posing as parents of former Aspen/CRC patients on the internet. They will claim an Aspen/CRC program saved their child's life and attempt to steer you directly to Aspen/CRC referral websites. Ask anyone endorsing Aspen/CRC exclusively to recommend a similar program not affiliated with Aspen/CRC or Bain Capital. An Aspen marketer will claim no knowledge of other programs or will harshly criticize Aspen competitors. If the individual is vague about their experience with an Aspen/CRC program and will only say it was a success, keep asking for specific aspects of their program experience. Press for details and if the "parent" becomes evasive or combative, be skeptical of their endorsement.”
These are tricks that are constantly being played on parents and new readers (here on fornits) to try to deceive them into believing that programs are abusive, ineffective or to show them in a negative light. I have spent a lot of my time exposing false or fabricated information which is posted here. Some of the information is legitimate but Just beware what you read here and try to read the original when you can.
...
Post by: Anonymous on October 09, 2008, 06:44:42 PM
http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21209 (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21209)
Quote from: "Programmer #A-5"
Pardon my blunt language and longwindness:
In a world after 9/11, to whom do I talk to about this matter? My mother and step-father will not admit to the criminal and Satanic mistake they made with these Mormon-Republican devils. Oh, before you think I'm a Liberal Democrat wacko, I'm not. I'm a Catholic Republican and I would never do this to anyTHING alive. How can anybody ever be convinced a Nazi/Soviet style concentration camp is the answer for petty teen behavior? Furthermore, these parents, the Baby Boomers, who all boozed it up in Studio 54 and fucked each other silly at college orgies of the Animal House magnitude, has the hypocritical gaul to PUNISH their own FLESH AND BLOOD for the very same actions? Speaking as somebody who can't recover no matter what I've tried in life, the children today are the same children we've always been. We're children, being wild after World War II. How dare the parents think they are better than us when they acted just as us! Who the fuck do they think they are, passing judgement against us? As Americans, we're entitled to DUE PROCESS OF LAW, and are innocent till proven guilty. Judges are either appointed by politicans elected by the people, in a Right granted by God via the Declaration of Independece, Articles of Conferderation and the Constitution, or are elected directly by the people thereof, in the same manner of dictation via the Three Founding Documents. Ergo, only God Himself can send us to these places under American Law. Yet, our parents decided to send to these places for "help". What kind of help did I get? NONE! I'll explain in detail.
After being led to a trip to LA for no reason at all (and I packed movies and video games for the trip), I was tackled in the LA airport where the movie The Net has a scene of Sandra Bullock eating pizza, waiting for her plane. To this day, I can't go near LAX, nor watch that scene in The Net for occurance of a mental breakdown. Similarly, I can't watch the Disney movie Heavyweights at all, nor Girl Interrupted. Those if I got treatment like in Girl Interrupted, I doubt I would've become a confused, hateful, sex-crazed maniac. Anyways, as I said, I was led to LA for no reason some time between Fed. 29, 1996 and Mar. 14, 1996. In was the Friday following the 29th, I remember that much.
Recently beforehand, I had decided to dropout of high school. A friend of mine was in home schooling and was only 15 and in college, so I was considering it. I also applied at over 50+ places for a job earlier in January, and was eagerly awaiting word from them. Furthermore, I was an aspiring author, and my mentor, who died shortly after my return in 1998, was coaching me on becoming a professional author for writing computer articles. I was also working on home anime movie efforts with another friend of mine, who was an anime freak. No doubt we would've started a dot-com and bailed at the last minute. Lastly, I had an approved internship awaiting at Westwood Studios, the makers of Command & Conquer game series, plus numerous contacts throughout Hollywood and TV stations. Tru Hawkings of AM 720 KDWN Las Vegas and his fellow DJs were a big help for me. To this day, my mother assumed I was a "troubled" teen because I sought to jumpstart my life by leaving conventional high school and wanted to get home schooling.
Well, thanks to missing those two years of my life (16, 17), I never finished high school, I can't concentrate at college (since 1998 and counting), I can't hold a job of any kind, and due to my inability to lose weight, I can't join the Military (hey, not a pretty alternative, but better than being penniless, which I am now). Other problems I have deal with me, time stopped on March 16, 1996, when the bastards caught me. Everything since then is amnesia. I wake up screaming every night, in a cold sweat. I have nothing but nightmares of that place, and fear sleep in the night, though that's a bit strange, considering they made us "sleep" with the lights on. Anyways, it's sad that Clayton Bowman, a fellow they made me go through one of their "seminars" with, was wasted away into skeleton and now lives in a mental institution forever, since 1998. He left right after I did.
I got lucky.
When I left on January 16, 1998, my 18th birthday, I informed the director, that fucking Mormon bastard Brain Vaifanua, that my family is full of Free Masons and Mafia. He chuckled at first till I saw written proof that the the Samoan Government had learned of my existence and I was freed via that. I don't know about the Mafia part (how much power did they have after Gotti went to jail), but the Free Mason paid off. I was free. Poor Clayton didn't leave till a little bit after me. The few times I did get to see him afterwards, he was gone. Far out. I mean it. He was also scarred, as am I, with ringworms and other ailments. My mother, after my return, couldn't figure out why I couldn't work, wouldn't do my school work, smoked heavily, didn't show up to anything, refused to talk to anybody associated with WWASP programs, and went into sex and drugs like a man posessed. Because I was. You would be, too, if you went thru just one day of what I went through for 22 months. 22 long months. Sadly, all of the evidence I'm aware of my stay has been destroyed. A common pratice, I've heard. But every year that has passed since March 16, 1996, I want to die a little more. I'm called a bum by my friends, but I've not shared my experiences with them. As already stated, my parents turn away, refusing to acknowledge anything about it. My mother's given me over $50,000+ to shut up about it and not go to court. I still refused. She gave me a house in Pahrump, NV, worth $210,000, and I've still thinking of causing a stink. You see, I can't comprehend anything. Quickly, and unfortunately, I have to use those "seminar" "skills" to turn bad situations around in my favor because why I do or say I am wholly unaware of. Like I said, I don't remember ANYTHING from January 16, 1998 till a few hours ago, if that. Oh, I know 9/11 happened that that we're fighting Gulf War II in Iraq, and that I've had sex and did drugs and such, only because people and pictures exist of me doing as such. No actualy recollection exists in my head about it. None.
Example, a Japanese girl who lives in Green Valley, NV, named Yuko, claims I fathered her child, and that we were lovers in 1999. Huh? I set up an extract of money from my trust for her but I don't know her. Strange, huh?
So onward I march.
After getting kidnapped a second time from my own house on March 16, I was dragged to LA again, and watched by this bastard asshole name Atwood. They had their fucking poser son with them, too, and he followed me everywhere, the fuck! They tried to feed me food, but I resisted. They let me have full control of the TV, and even let me wear a fannel the next day. Well, I should've known that allowing me to watch all of the HBO I want would've made me stay up late, and too tired to kick the screen out of a 2nd story window in the hotel they took me to. I even mouthed "Help me," to a babe and her boyfriend. They took a concerned look but didn't do anything. I should've woken up early, and jumped the window. I would've landed on some banana trees in Inglewood, but nevertheless, it's LA, and I can disappear in 10 sec. if given the chance. Also, if I caused a noise in the yard, the cops would've come, and I'd be better off that way.
But no, I watched dirty movies on HBO and then With Honors and Miracle on 34th Street the next morning. To this day, I can't watch those movies alone. Nor can I watch Frasier, which is the sitcom I was watching that night.
You know, the first time I was in LAX I should've let the LAX PD arrest "Terry" and those fuckers for trying to kidnap me. I should've. The Devil was in me. Today? Forget it. I'll fight to the death for my FREEDOM. Yeah, I did fight back then. Strangely, in 10th grade, I had an IQ of 210 according to the tests. My IQ today? 82.
My mom tried to apologize, and something should've tipped me off when my grandparents didn't expect us in LA. They always know when we're coming over. Strange, huh?
As I sat on the plane, Samoans asked if I was playing volleyball. I told them I didn't know shit. I saw some other kids who were dressed the same. I should've organized a rebellion or something. (I almost had a revolution at the cult compound I was at in Dec. '97.) Nothing tipped me off. When we got to Hawaii, some New Zealander fucker gave me a lecture on what a New Zealander is. Whatever, asshole. Then he asked what I was in for. In for? WTF? I said I don't know, writing a novel? They all laughed. Then forced back on the plance to Samoa. Now, if I had known that if I caused a problem in Hawaii or American Samoa, that the PD would've came, I could've done as such. But those fuckers lie at every chance. EVERY CHANCE. To this day, I hope Hawaii and Samoa burns in a volcanic death.
I'm going to skip some details, but here's a list of shit that I had happened to me:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason.
No toilet paper.
Had rocks and items thrown at me.
Locked in a hot, wooden box.
Forced to eat paper.
Forced to be naked for a week.
Thrown into the ocean during a typhoon.
Kicked down a hill and had logs thrown on me.
Had a chair slammed into my gut.
Obtained more skin diseases than a POW in Vietnam.
Forced to carry "sandbags" of rocks up and down hills.
Lived in the jungle called Le Tiera.
Screamed at and clubbed during seminars.
Had other "students" "enforce" "rules" on me for no reason.
I'm sure there's more if I went into it day by day. Which I can. In the end, a Christmas arguement broke out between the staff and me. I had the whole "beach" I was in ready to fight back. I had stored over the 22 months, bags, clubs, wood, rocks, homemade slings, homemade spears, shanks from toothbrushes, waterhoses for whips, seashells for spikes in the clubs, nails and screws I found, random kitchen and computer parts for weaponary. Toxic chemicals made from shampoo, toothpaste and sea creatures and plants, and bars of soap for use in socks. A boiling point came when they wanted us to do "choose" from dancing like a bunch of jigaboos and coons and just staying on the "beach" and doing nothing. I chose nothing. The lady in charge comes over and argues with me. She then lays "consequences" on me. Just for disagreeing? Um, hello, we're Americans, we disagree on EVERYTHING! After everybody was forced out, she said I don't get a consequence if I fuck her. Honestly, what the Hell, right? I was there for 20 months by then without pussy or a woman, and I was forced to do gross shit that nobody would do outside of a Dutch porn room, so I did it fast and went about my business. Shows you what kind of "professionals" they hire, huh? The only two good people there were Saliva the Ape and Mr. Tau. They were fired for actually rehabilitating us! Why? Because they had degrees from college and knew how to handle us! WOW! And they were fired. The rest of the fucks were just that, fucks. So anyways, after I did my male deed with a her, I just walked out of the "schoolhouse" alone. I was about to scream, "REVOLUTION!" when I noticed all of weaponary was being taken. I didn't say anything. The "staff" wanted to know who's stuff it was. Nobody talked. Loyality. We were threatened with more of that "consequences" non-sense when I saw the Samoan I just boinked talk to the "staff" in Samoan and the situation was over. She just winked at me and left. I was allowed free reign on that "beach" as long as I stayed around. Just as long as I didn't leave. I don't know if I was a good lay, or they knew that we could take 'em. Or if we failed, we'd have one Hell of a bad story for ACLU to pursue in International Court. Either way, I was free. In a strange way, my "freedom" was kept in a 1984ish way, like in the end of the book, where they let Winston do anything he wants. Only difference is I was aware of it, he wasn't. I also had to boink that fat Samoan staff lady sometimes up to five times a day. Look, physically I enjoyed it, but seriously, if I was living in the States according to my original plan, I'd never boink that!
So comes the last weeks, when I was doing whatever. One staff member tried to "consequence" me the day before I left. Finally, he let up, because the directors told him to. Why? Don't know. He got in trouble, I was "free" to go fuck off as along as I stayed on the "beach". In the end, I was playing video games on the computers they had.
When my time came to leave, I told the guys, "Look, I don't when I'll be going," and I got pulled out of the hut and forced to pack up my stuff and be "upstairs" in five minutes. Those last few weeks and dashing off felt great after 20 months of torture and no food, no freedom. Not even allowed to talk. Look, bluntly, getting ugly pussy helped just as much. It was needed. But for people like Clayton Bowman, Fred McCandles, David Takken, Matt Sunkel, Dustin Hobbs, TJ Bentley, Tommy George, Mike Renick, Chris Sutton (who's dad is Ken Kay's lawyer BTW), Nick Gallagher, Chris Landry (who's dead), Taylor Milan, and others . . . it's didn't help them. They became worse. They became worse.
I'm not against youth teen programs.
I'm against youth teen programs that are ran like a Nazi concentration camp.
Go for it on anybody who wants to sue 'em for pass laws against 'em. I'm all for it. If I could, I'd start one that only takes 20 people and have them work at a computer Internet cafe and attend Church every Sunday. That'd be effective. Not this "though love" bullshit.
TheWho posted this on Tuesday Oct 7 , just two days ago.
http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php? ... 51#p316451 (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25925&p=316451#p316451)
Quote from: "TheWho"
Ha,Ha,Ha you have been here for awhile!! Remember that guy who claimed he was duct taped from head to toe and then carried down to the ocean during a monsoon and thrown in!!! Talk about trying to get attention. Looking back now I think if he toned his story down a little and told us he was forced to carry wood around or study for hours on end he would have got a few people to believe him. But I do think that is the overall classic fabricated story I have heard here.
...
Posted yesterday,
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=25894&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=135#p316543 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=25894&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=135#p316543)
Quote from: "TheWho"
Look , I laughed at some of the stories which I beleive not to be true.
Post by: TheWho on October 09, 2008, 06:48:09 PM
I always suggest to the readers to read the link to “All” articles when they are provided here. Many articles’ wording is changed or anti program paragraphs are "seeded in" to deceive the readers. Many articles are altered to remove any wording which may favor the program. In the case of the above cut and paste much of the dialog doesn’t exist in the original from “Family Light”.
As an example this paragraph was not part of the “Family light” article:
“Beware of unscrupulous Aspen marketers posing as parents of former Aspen/CRC patients on the internet. They will claim an Aspen/CRC program saved their child's life and attempt to steer you directly to Aspen/CRC referral websites. Ask anyone endorsing Aspen/CRC exclusively to recommend a similar program not affiliated with Aspen/CRC or Bain Capital. An Aspen marketer will claim no knowledge of other programs or will harshly criticize Aspen competitors. If the individual is vague about their experience with an Aspen/CRC program and will only say it was a success, keep asking for specific aspects of their program experience. Press for details and if the "parent" becomes evasive or combative, be skeptical of their endorsement.”
These are tricks that are constantly being played on parents and new readers (here on fornits) to try to deceive them into believing that programs are abusive, ineffective or to show them in a negative light. I have spent a lot of my time exposing false or fabricated information which is posted here. Some of the information is legitimate but Just beware what you read here and try to read the original when you can.
Post by: Froderik on October 09, 2008, 07:02:34 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Ha,Ha,Ha another trick they use is to try to cover themselves with long articles when their lies are exposed. Ya gatta love this place.....LIES ^^^
I always suggest to the readers to read the link to “All” articles when they are provided here. Many articles’ wording is changed or anti program paragraphs are "seeded in" to deceive the readers. Many articles are altered to remove any wording which may favor the program. In the case of the above cut and paste much of the dialog doesn’t exist in the original from “Family Light”.
As an example this paragraph was not part of the “Family light” article:
“Beware of unscrupulous Aspen marketers posing as parents of former Aspen/CRC patients on the internet. They will claim an Aspen/CRC program saved their child's life and attempt to steer you directly to Aspen/CRC referral websites. Ask anyone endorsing Aspen/CRC exclusively to recommend a similar program not affiliated with Aspen/CRC or Bain Capital. An Aspen marketer will claim no knowledge of other programs or will harshly criticize Aspen competitors. If the individual is vague about their experience with an Aspen/CRC program and will only say it was a success, keep asking for specific aspects of their program experience. Press for details and if the "parent" becomes evasive or combative, be skeptical of their endorsement.”
These are tricks that are constantly being played on parents and new readers (here on fornits) to try to deceive them into believing that programs are abusive, ineffective or to show them in a negative light. I have spent a lot of my time exposing false or fabricated information which is posted here. Some of the information is legitimate but Just beware what you read here and try to read the original when you can.
Post by: Anonymous on October 09, 2008, 07:03:09 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Ha,Ha,Ha another trick they use is to try to cover themselves with long articles when their lies are exposed. Ya gatta love this place.....
I always suggest to the readers to read the link to “All” articles when they are provided here. Many articles’ wording is changed or anti program paragraphs are "seeded in" to deceive the readers. Many articles are altered to remove any wording which may favor the program. In the case of the above cut and paste much of the dialog doesn’t exist in the original from “Family Light”.
As an example this paragraph was not part of the “Family light” article:
“Beware of unscrupulous Aspen marketers posing as parents of former Aspen/CRC patients on the internet. They will claim an Aspen/CRC program saved their child's life and attempt to steer you directly to Aspen/CRC referral websites. Ask anyone endorsing Aspen/CRC exclusively to recommend a similar program not affiliated with Aspen/CRC or Bain Capital. An Aspen marketer will claim no knowledge of other programs or will harshly criticize Aspen competitors. If the individual is vague about their experience with an Aspen/CRC program and will only say it was a success, keep asking for specific aspects of their program experience. Press for details and if the "parent" becomes evasive or combative, be skeptical of their endorsement.”
These are tricks that are constantly being played on parents and new readers (here on fornits) to try to deceive them into believing that programs are abusive, ineffective or to show them in a negative light. I have spent a lot of my time exposing false or fabricated information which is posted here. Some of the information is legitimate but Just beware what you read here and try to read the original when you can.
Whenever dealing with this "industry" make sure to screen save everything they put on the web. They've no problem lying through their teeth regarding it.
Post by: TheWho on October 09, 2008, 07:17:34 PM
Quote from: "Froderik"
Quote from: "TheWho"Ha,Ha,Ha another trick they use is to try to cover themselves with long articles when their lies are exposed. Ya gatta love this place.....LIES ^^^
I always suggest to the readers to read the link to “All” articles when they are provided here. Many articles’ wording is changed or anti program paragraphs are "seeded in" to deceive the readers. Many articles are altered to remove any wording which may favor the program. In the case of the above cut and paste much of the dialog doesn’t exist in the original from “Family Light”.
As an example this paragraph was not part of the “Family light” article:
“Beware of unscrupulous Aspen marketers posing as parents of former Aspen/CRC patients on the internet. They will claim an Aspen/CRC program saved their child's life and attempt to steer you directly to Aspen/CRC referral websites. Ask anyone endorsing Aspen/CRC exclusively to recommend a similar program not affiliated with Aspen/CRC or Bain Capital. An Aspen marketer will claim no knowledge of other programs or will harshly criticize Aspen competitors. If the individual is vague about their experience with an Aspen/CRC program and will only say it was a success, keep asking for specific aspects of their program experience. Press for details and if the "parent" becomes evasive or combative, be skeptical of their endorsement.”
These are tricks that are constantly being played on parents and new readers (here on fornits) to try to deceive them into believing that programs are abusive, ineffective or to show them in a negative light. I have spent a lot of my time exposing false or fabricated information which is posted here. Some of the information is legitimate but Just beware what you read here and try to read the original when you can.
Frod, Read the original article on their web site and then read what was posted on fornits. You will see the stuff that has been added.
...
Post by: Anonymous on October 09, 2008, 07:18:55 PM
"The Trouble with Troubled-Teen Schools" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp9OTkwryL4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp9OTkwryL4)
Post by: Froderik on October 09, 2008, 07:20:26 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Frod, Read the original article on their web site and then read what was posted on fornits. You will see the stuff that has been added....Uhh... so?
Post by: TheWho on October 09, 2008, 07:32:10 PM
Quote from: "Froderik"
Quote from: "TheWho"Frod, Read the original article on their web site and then read what was posted on fornits. You will see the stuff that has been added....Uhh... so?
Yeah, I know, the regulars are so use to it that no one gives it much of a thought anymore. But new readers may read the "cut and paste version" and believe it is an exact copy of the link and not bother to read the original.
...
Post by: Anonymous on October 09, 2008, 11:24:03 PM
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=25865#p315838 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=25865#p315838)
Post by: Anonymous on October 10, 2008, 06:57:01 PM
01 Jun 2007
Quote from: "Antigen"
TheWho is currently banned for flooding. Anybody care to send me a list of links to the spam? If not, that's cool. Kelly can get at it from the back end later when she has time.
:jerry: ::poke::
Post by: Troll Control on June 20, 2009, 01:07:53 PM
Post by: psy on June 20, 2009, 01:09:06 PM
fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck ... WHY!!!!
Post by: Troll Control on June 20, 2009, 01:13:56 PM
Post by: psy on June 20, 2009, 02:20:57 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Sorry, dude, but YES. He's posting anon too much and people need to understand this guy before they try to determine if his posts "add value." Heh.You have a point, but nobody will read the whole thread... nobody. Either you know TheWho's antics, patterns, and style, or you don't. Also. Protip: he's also dramatically changed his style. Unless you're watching very very closely and looking at the motivations of why people post what they do (the net effect in the end), you'll never guess what his game is now. He's very good at pushing a small button and sending out ripples, and not in a way you'd expect.
Post by: Troll Control on June 20, 2009, 03:33:43 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Guest"Sorry, dude, but YES. He's posting anon too much and people need to understand this guy before they try to determine if his posts "add value." Heh.You have a point, but nobody will read the whole thread... nobody. Either you know TheWho's antics, patterns, and style, or you don't. Also. Protip: he's also dramatically changed his style. Unless you're watching very very closely and looking at the motivations of why people post what they do (the net effect in the end), you'll never guess what his game is now. He's very good at pushing a small button and sending out ripples, and not in a way you'd expect.
Please. Enlighten me. What's this guy's new schtick?
Post by: psy on June 20, 2009, 03:55:26 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
If I went further into his new strategy it might be construed as outing him. I've said enough. Even though I don't check IPs, it's still not fair for me to guess in the position i'm in. Let's just say he's an intelligent little shit and has adjusted his tactics. Be smart and you'll figure it out. He's taken an indirect approach now.Quote from: "psy"Quote from: "Guest"Sorry, dude, but YES. He's posting anon too much and people need to understand this guy before they try to determine if his posts "add value." Heh.You have a point, but nobody will read the whole thread... nobody. Either you know TheWho's antics, patterns, and style, or you don't. Also. Protip: he's also dramatically changed his style. Unless you're watching very very closely and looking at the motivations of why people post what they do (the net effect in the end), you'll never guess what his game is now. He's very good at pushing a small button and sending out ripples, and not in a way you'd expect.
Please. Enlighten me. What's this guy's new schtick?
Think about this: he's no longer registered so he can pretend to be anybody or take any position. As I said. Examine the net effect resulting from a posting.
Post by: FemanonFatal2.0 on June 20, 2009, 07:24:39 PM
In the latest case I believe he is capitalizing on the actions of "well-proxied" and spurring the argument of ethics concerning the posting of personal information. In the intention of making it seem like Fornits is responsible for the actions of this anonymous individual and due to the lack of moderation should somehow be held legally responsible.
We all know that a case of this sort would have no merit, and furthermore no target, however it is the point that he is using this situation to ethically discredit Fornits, and ultimately the cause of fighting for the rights of institutionalized youth as a whole.
This is of course just my guess...
Post by: Anonymous on June 20, 2009, 07:59:33 PM
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
I'm considering regardless of the angle he takes, his general purpose stays the same... to make Fornits look bad.Yes. I recognized Who was spurring arguments over “ethics” due to the repetitiveness and “abstraction” of its posts.
In the latest case I believe he is capitalizing on the actions of "well-proxied" and spurring the argument of ethics concerning the posting of personal information. In the intention of making it seem like Fornits is responsible for the actions of this anonymous individual and due to the lack of moderation should somehow be held legally responsible.
We all know that a case of this sort would have no merit, and furthermore no target, however it is the point that he is using this situation to ethically discredit Fornits, and ultimately the cause of fighting for the rights of institutionalized youth as a whole.
This is of course just my guess...
He is also the writer of the posts about the girl getting bullied, whose "parent" is interested in institutionalizing her to help her self-esteem, “since she resists talk therapy.”
I would say, his aim is to distract from important issues, more than “making us look bad.”
It is so methodological and so genuinely disinterested in communicating it is hard to resist the idea that it is a “hired gun.”
People who know how to recognize it should simply mark its posts as Who and the rest of fornits should IGNORE it.
Post by: FemanonFatal2.0 on June 20, 2009, 08:25:29 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 20, 2009, 09:09:41 PM
You can spot him because he often makes mention of things like:
“Anything negative gets in for free…anything positive gets the ninth degree”
“A ropes course has now been added to the long list of events now considered torture…. I would bet if you asked a group of the kids if they would rather sit and study or do the ropes course the overwhelming majority would pick the ropes course. So that makes studying the highest form of torture”
“There is criticism of programs because they are not licensed when in fact many are not required to be. Many here often leave that part out.”
“The argument that a particular program didn’t have a great library or their teachers were not certified is an interesting argument. How many of the kids took advantage of their local library or even attended school prior to being placed. Of course this is never mentioned either. So how many other points are left out or stories embellished in the attempt to tarnish a particular program. One wonders sometimes. If a program could just get a kid to open a book it would be a great accomplishment... yet this is never discussed”
If you see this type of posting it is probably thewho. I don’t think he is out to discredit fornits, just trying to make the arguments more honest and hopefully more productive and force discussion over the real issues.
Post by: Anonymous on June 20, 2009, 11:08:22 PM
Quote from: "thewho"
Thewho claims to fight against the double standard.
You can spot him because he often makes mention of things like:
“Anything negative gets in for free…anything positive gets the ninth degree”
“A ropes course has now been added to the long list of events now considered torture…. I would bet if you asked a group of the kids if they would rather sit and study or do the ropes course the overwhelming majority would pick the ropes course. So that makes studying the highest form of torture”
“There is criticism of programs because they are not licensed when in fact many are not required to be. Many here often leave that part out.”
“The argument that a particular program didn’t have a great library or their teachers were not certified is an interesting argument. How many of the kids took advantage of their local library or even attended school prior to being placed. Of course this is never mentioned either. So how many other points are left out or stories embellished in the attempt to tarnish a particular program. One wonders sometimes. If a program could just get a kid to open a book it would be a great accomplishment... yet this is never discussed”
If you see this type of posting it is probably thewho. I don’t think he is out to discredit fornits, just trying to make the arguments more honest and hopefully more productive and force discussion over the real issues.
^^ The who, crazy person or "hired gun" AND crazy person, who claims to be the parent who coordinated its daughter's imprisonment in the Academy at Swift River, and because of this experience has decided to tirelessly devote himself to fighting "double standards" and "force discussion over the real issues" on an internet forum for survivors of imprisonment without due process in torture chambers such as CEDU, Elan, Desisto, etc.
Post by: Troll Control on June 21, 2009, 08:58:09 AM
Post by: TheWho on June 21, 2009, 12:27:32 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
But later turns out never to have had a daughter, but rather two sons, one of which is now dead. Killed himself after The Who put him through ASR. Do I have it right, Whooter?Woah baby!! Thanks for the info. That enough to verify the death for me. I'll add him to the list of kids who died in programs.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 21, 2009, 01:29:16 PM
Post by: psy on June 21, 2009, 02:41:03 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Who is many things, but intelligent isn't one of them.HAH. No. He is VERY intelligent. Never underestimate your enemy.
Quote
His tactics and post are see throughOnly when he wants them to be.
Post by: Troll Control on June 21, 2009, 02:59:42 PM
Quote from: "Program Deathlist"
Quote from: "Guest"But later turns out never to have had a daughter, but rather two sons, one of which is now dead. Killed himself after The Who put him through ASR. Do I have it right, Whooter?Woah baby!! Thanks for the info. That enough to verify the death for me. I'll add him to the list of kids who died in programs.
^^The Who
So... Tell us about your son, Who.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 21, 2009, 05:16:07 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"Who is many things, but intelligent isn't one of them.HAH. No. He is VERY intelligent. Never underestimate your enemy.QuoteHis tactics and post are see throughOnly when he wants them to be.
As much as I ususally respect your opinion I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. The guy is a moron who couldn't reason his way out of a carboard box. He never proves a single point or wins a single argument. He attempts to distract from pertinent issues, but in the end just gets hammered with them anyway. He resprts to red herrings as often as possible when he feels painted into a corner. Or he simply makes up something about another poster and demand the person acknowledge it before he accepts any obvious truths opposed to what he wants to hear. He's like the second grader who refuses to acknowledge he's peed his pants in the middle of class. By denying it and refusing to believe all he does is attract more attention to himself and highlight that truth further. A truly intelligent person is capable of accepting the truth, regardless of their own feelings. They're also honest and open to all the facts before reaching a concluscion. They aren't afraid of the truth like Cindy is. So unless you tell me that Cindy was a mole all along, and was only playing the part, yes he's a moron. His goals of distracting from the truth have always been apparent, whether he wants them to be or not.
Post by: TheWho on June 21, 2009, 06:32:01 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 21, 2009, 06:46:55 PM
Quote from: "MargaretW"
I am new here and dont want to read the whole thread. So what you are saying this thewho person is undereducated and has a low IQ. Why do you create a whole thread just to pick on a special needs person. Why not just ignore him? There is a neighbor kid who is retarded or autistic and he is a good kid and we try to include him as much as possible with my kids who are smart and doing well in the 2nd grade and they seem to play well together. I wouldnt try to pick on him too much most of those people are very good natured.
thewho ^^. Adorable
So, his son committed suicide? What's the who's name?
Post by: TheWho on June 21, 2009, 06:53:17 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
If his son committed suicide why not have some compassion for him or at least his kid. What does it matter what his name is? Do you just want to add him to the list you have created? I dont think it is a good idea to place your name on the internet especially if it is a child.Quote from: "MargaretW"I am new here and dont want to read the whole thread. So what you are saying this thewho person is undereducated and has a low IQ. Why do you create a whole thread just to pick on a special needs person. Why not just ignore him? There is a neighbor kid who is retarded or autistic and he is a good kid and we try to include him as much as possible with my kids who are smart and doing well in the 2nd grade and they seem to play well together. I wouldnt try to pick on him too much most of those people are very good natured.
thewho ^^. Adorable
So, his son committed suicide? What's the who's name?
Post by: Anonymous on June 21, 2009, 06:57:31 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"If his son committed suicide why not have some compassion for him or at least his kid. What does it matter what his name is? Do you just want to add him to the list you have created? I dont think it is a good idea to place your name on the internet especially if it is a child.Quote from: "MargaretW"I am new here and dont want to read the whole thread. So what you are saying this thewho person is undereducated and has a low IQ. Why do you create a whole thread just to pick on a special needs person. Why not just ignore him? There is a neighbor kid who is retarded or autistic and he is a good kid and we try to include him as much as possible with my kids who are smart and doing well in the 2nd grade and they seem to play well together. I wouldnt try to pick on him too much most of those people are very good natured.
thewho ^^. Adorable
So, his son committed suicide? What's the who's name?
Murder victims object to having their names on the internet! Let their murderer(s) go ununpunished and their suffering kept hidden so that no one even knows what was done to them! This is what the victims want
Post by: Troll Control on June 21, 2009, 06:58:41 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"If his son committed suicide why not have some compassion for him or at least his kid. What does it matter what his name is? Do you just want to add him to the list you have created? I dont think it is a good idea to place your name on the internet especially if it is a child.Quote from: "MargaretW"I am new here and dont want to read the whole thread. So what you are saying this thewho person is undereducated and has a low IQ. Why do you create a whole thread just to pick on a special needs person. Why not just ignore him? There is a neighbor kid who is retarded or autistic and he is a good kid and we try to include him as much as possible with my kids who are smart and doing well in the 2nd grade and they seem to play well together. I wouldnt try to pick on him too much most of those people are very good natured.
thewho ^^. Adorable
So, his son committed suicide? What's the who's name?
^^The Who...Again. He has a sick need to support the places that drove his son to suicide, it appears.
Post by: Inculcated on June 21, 2009, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Murder victims object to having their names on the internet! Let their murderer(s) go ununpunished and their suffering kept hidden so that no one even knows what was done to them! This is what the victims wantFucking funny … funny fuck
Post by: TheWho on June 21, 2009, 07:32:31 PM
Quote from: "Inculcated"
Quote from: "Guest"Murder victims object to having their names on the internet! Let their murderer(s) go ununpunished and their suffering kept hidden so that no one even knows what was done to them! This is what the victims wantFucking funny … funny fuck
Just had to post....That is a classic!! I agree it is funny, who ever wrote that is fucking lame, first it wasnt even a murder it was a suicide... second the kid who is dead wouldnt even care at this point now would he!! and how would they know what the dead kids even would want?!!!! How could they object to having their names on the internet? If they wanted their story told or thier picture published they would have left a suicide note... some people are so stupid its funny!!!
Post by: Inculcated on June 21, 2009, 07:38:51 PM
Ew. There’s a who stuck to the bottom of this forum.
Post by: TheWho on June 21, 2009, 07:45:59 PM
...
Post by: Inculcated on June 21, 2009, 08:20:48 PM
Quote from: "psy"
PSY,
'it might be construed as outing him. I've said enough. Even though I don't check IPs, it's still not fair for me to guess in the position i'm in.
Think about this: he's no longer registered so he can pretend to be anybody or take any position. As I said. Examine the net effect resulting from a posting.
Couldn’t you be enticed to an ethical flip flop… :flip: just this once? It could be just a wink of that hot and cold game. The winner could track it down (to the specific rock it retreats beneath) and tag it, for the betterment of all.
Post by: psy on June 21, 2009, 08:26:22 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 21, 2009, 08:29:27 PM
Post by: Inculcated on June 21, 2009, 08:36:36 PM
Quote from: "Inculcated"
Quote from: "psy"PSY,
'it might be construed as outing him. I've said enough. Even though I don't check IPs, it's still not fair for me to guess in the position i'm in.
Think about this: he's no longer registered so he can pretend to be anybody or take any position. As I said. Examine the net effect resulting from a posting.
Couldn’t you be enticed to an ethical flip flop… :flip: just this once? It could be just a wink of that hot and cold game. The winner could track it down (to the specific rock it retreats beneath) and tag it, for the betterment of all.
Quote from: "psy"
"Just this once" would become "just this once more" and so forth. It would also then become a moderated forum and we'd likely lose immunity. I'm sorry. No. Don't get me wrong. I hate the little shit, but I can't violate his anonymity. He has as much right to speak as you.Aw, okay. I guess I understand. Ethics can be just as alluring as revenge fantasies. Oh, damn I typed that out loud didn’t I?
Post by: RobertBruce on June 21, 2009, 08:50:07 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on June 21, 2009, 08:57:15 PM
Post by: psy on June 21, 2009, 09:01:14 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 21, 2009, 09:04:37 PM
Quote from: "psy"
No, RB. He's evolved and learned many many new tricks.
Like what? Besides posting as a guest, which is its biggest new trick. Why do you call it "he"? Do you know its gender?
Post by: RobertBruce on June 21, 2009, 11:35:43 PM
Quote from: "psy"
No, RB. He's evolved and learned many many new tricks.
SSDD. I found this comment I posted a few years ago about Cindy's antics, from the look of things nothing has changed.
Cindy: Not only will this product be the best you've ever experienced, but it can cure cancer and make your shit turn into gold!
Customer: Really? WOW thanks man!
********two weeks later************
Customer: Uhhh excuse me Cindy, you sold me this piece of shit two weeks ago and claimed it would cure cancer and turn my fecal matter into gold, neither has happened. Can you explain yourself?
CIndy: I'm not going to do your homework for you, if it's that important you research it yourself, then if you disagree with me we can discuss it.
Customer: Why would I need to research your bullshit, you made something up, now either back it up or give me my money back!
Cindy: Woah man, you need to relax, I'm neither right nor wrong, You've got to take what I said into perspective. Now you claimed that this device would cure cancer, it doesn't and you got burned. Now you're upset about it, I want you to calm down and establish what the standards are for this industry.
Customer: What? I didn't claim any such thing, you did!
Cindy: Can you prove you didn't say it?
Customer: Are you high?
Cindy: Always. I see nothing wrong with taking a little puff now and again, of course I had my daughter tortured for just such a thing but that's neither here nor there. In any event I went to a Styx concert in 1973 this is of course when Tommy Shaw was with the band, who in my factual gospel like opinion was much much greater than DeYoung ever was.
Customer: Okay you know what? I'm coming back in here with a bat and I'm going to beat your ass, then I'm going to tell everyone on the planet to never shop here and what an absolute stupid asshole you are.
Cindy: Hey hey hey...I conducted a survey so I know I'm doing something right. Now this survey consisted of myself, my mother, and my dog Rex. Now two of those people said they might come back into my store, but not likely. That's 100% approval rating buddy! Take that in your pipe and smoke it! Speaking of which.......God I hate my kids.
And that I think about sums up a typical business transaction for our little Cindy.
Post by: Ursus on June 21, 2009, 11:55:35 PM
Quote from: "MikeThompson"
Dammit!! Is there anyway I could get my old name back? Do you think Ursus would sell it back to me?
...
Now why, pray tell, might you be wanting to that, eh? :D
Post by: Troll Control on June 22, 2009, 12:22:30 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 22, 2009, 07:11:22 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2009, 07:27:20 PM
Post by: FemanonFatal2.0 on June 22, 2009, 07:32:11 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
We're listening. Do tell, Mr. Who. Why would a guy whose kid killed himself over 'the program' spend years of his life posing as students, parents, staff, uninterested outsiders, lawyers, shrinks, etc., etc., etc.? I mean, you've posed as every type of poster 9and got pinched doing it every time0 in pursuit of your crooked agenda, so why do you spend several hours a day just typing in confirmation codes??
Call me nieve but I have a hard time believing this... is there ANY chance you guys may be a little over-paranoid?
I mean consider this, EVERY program cult member, be it parents, alumni or staff all use VERY similar program jargon. They all have this narrow-minded view that the program somehow saves lives and regardless of the harsh conditions the ends always justifies the means. Furthermore, in the face of our evidence all they have ever done is beat around the bush arguing points that seem either completely illogical or at least significantly irrelevant.
Example:
ME: "So you think that its okay for kids to be abused in residential treatment programs"
Cultie: "There is abuse everywhere, in public schools and day-care centers too so what's the difference?"
and this excuse I got straight from the mouth of a family friend who was considering a program for her 8 year old son. The tactics are all too similar, the mindset is almost identical and the motivation is the same as well... they don't want to have to accept that they made a mistake getting "help" for their child, and were dumb enough to be conned by a cult. I know people who would engage in all out warfare for less.
You see what I'm saying? I don't deny that we have trolls, we obviously do, but I don't think they are ALL TheWho.
Post by: TheWho on June 22, 2009, 07:57:57 PM
Most parents see right thru this crap, it is comical to read sometimes. None of this stuff is torture or abusive… ropes courses, building a wall, shoveling snow, taking out the trash, doing calisthenics, skipping a meal or two, reflection time, etc. etc… it just seems abusive because you never had to do anything tough before so of course it seems like torture. To top it all off one of the biggest bitches is that the kids cant communicate enough with their parents while there!!! Most of these kids never talked to their parents for months prior to being placed. WTF is up with that?
If a kid or my kid did commit suicide how would any of us know if it was due to depression, a girlfriend who broke it off, an accident? How do you attribute it to a specific cause? The lists that I see being posted have little or no bearing because no note was left so no one knows what the cause was. How do we know the program didn’t extend their lives an extra few years before they finally took their life? Without the program they might have died years earlier.
...
Post by: RobertBruce on June 22, 2009, 08:17:59 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on June 22, 2009, 08:44:54 PM
Quote
Well how about someone answer why a kid would bitch about the programs library not having a copy of a Mark twain book or why a teacher isn’t certified by the state?
A kid might bitch about programs not having a Mark Twain book because he wants to read a Mark Twain book. Seems fairly logical to me. A teacher needs to be certified by the state for the same reason that any position of trust or major respondsibility requires some sort of licensure or certification. You want to make sure the person actually knows what the hell they are doing.
Quote
How many of these kids brought up this same subject with their parents about their local school when they were home? How many actually went to the library and checked out a book?
A little over 20 million apparently.
http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/libraries/ (http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/libraries/)
Quote
Or knew their teachers credentials? HaHaHa, kind of funny when you think of it that way
Public schools require certified teachers. Often when there is a shortage of teachers a school will hire someone who has their degree but not their license, however the person has a very limited time in which to recieve their license. Tax payers and PTA's dont allow unlicensed teachers. See how good regulation and oversight is? The programs you cling to so desperatly don't seem to mind at all.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 22, 2009, 08:57:43 PM
Quote
QuoteIf 95% of the kids are getting accepted to their first choice of college who cares if the place is licensed, certified or has any oversight from the state at all?
Big if. Can you cite an independent souce to verify your 95% claim? I'd be interested in seeing that. As to what oversight and licensure bring, that horse has been beated to death. Both bring safety, accountablity, and higher standards. To answer your other question, people who care about these kids (not you) or the parents who are shelling out close to six figures care about these places being licensed.
Quote
Most parents see right thru this crap, it is comical to read sometimes. None of this stuff is torture or abusive… ropes courses, building a wall, shoveling snow, taking out the trash, doing calisthenics, skipping a meal or two, reflection time, etc. etc…
You believe denying food to a child is acceptable? Do state agencies feel that way? What kind of rope course are you refering to and who claimed it was torture? Please cite the comment in question. What kind of wall is being built? How big is it? Are the proper tools provided? Why is a student being made to shovel snow? Do you believe students should be used as slave labor in leiu of paying a maintaince staff? What if the child in question hasn't been given the proper clothing to work in the snow? Would it be considered torture then? Whose trash is the child being made to take out? Where to? How long do the calisthenics last? What happens to the child who can't keep up? What's involved with "reflection time"? Is confrontational therapy ever effective? Should it be conducted by licensed therapist? Also, if parents are seeing through this "crap" then why is the industry dying? Why are they having regulation forced upon them, and why are their numbers so low?
Quote
To top it all off one of the biggest bitches is that the kids cant communicate enough with their parents while there!!! Most of these kids never talked to their parents for months prior to being placed. WTF is up with that?What if a child feels they are being abused yet they are denied the ability to tell their parents.
What is the theraputic value of denying contact?
Post by: RobertBruce on June 22, 2009, 08:59:41 PM
Quote
If a kid or my kid did commit suicide how would any of us know if it was due to depression, a girlfriend who broke it off, an accident? How do you attribute it to a specific cause? The lists that I see being posted have little or no bearing because no note was left so no one knows what the cause was. How do we know the program didn’t extend their lives an extra few years before they finally took their life? Without the program they might have died years earlier
Well we certianlly know it didnt help. Just out of curiosity how do you know there was no note?
Lot of questions here for you. Yours were answered, so get to it.
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2009, 10:03:16 PM
Quote from: "MikeThompson"
Dammit!! Is there anyway I could get my old name back? Do you think Ursus would sell it back to me? ...
Better yet, they should give you your own forum and ban you from all others. You could c/p posts and respond to them there. Anyone interested in your bs tripe could visit your forum/blog to read it.
So Who, did Bain or CRC fund the SC test case?
Post by: TheWho on June 22, 2009, 11:08:19 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2009, 11:19:56 PM
Quote from: "this is directed at anybody who takes thewho seriously or attempts to guess who it is.. srsly wtf ppl"
what if you found out TheWho was a 12 year old albino retard, with nothing better to do. how stupid would you feel?
No WAY!!! You should see him in his running shorts! Whootie is hot, hot, HOT!!
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2009, 11:21:11 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 23, 2009, 07:08:57 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
the last 2 posts were both who. Pretty sad....
The "guest" 2 posts back was mine. I would guess the whooter was posting as "guest55" not Chrissy but its possible he wrote the post before chrissys also. I am keeping a close watch and can spot him easy enough when he shows up.
Post by: Troll Control on June 23, 2009, 12:28:09 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"the last 2 posts were both who. Pretty sad....
The "guest" 2 posts back was mine. I would guess the whooter was posting as "guest55" not Chrissy but its possible he wrote the post before chrissys also. I am keeping a close watch and can spot him easy enough when he shows up.
Also The Who^^
Post by: TheWho on June 23, 2009, 02:03:00 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"the last 2 posts were both who. Pretty sad....
The "guest" 2 posts back was mine. I would guess the whooter was posting as "guest55" not Chrissy but its possible he wrote the post before chrissys also. I am keeping a close watch and can spot him easy enough when he shows up.
Also The Who^^
I think they are all thewho^^ believe it or not. I also think RobertBruce is thewho^^ isnt it odd how this bruce guy all of a sudden shows up right after thewho^^ does?
Post by: Troll Control on June 23, 2009, 04:47:08 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"the last 2 posts were both who. Pretty sad....
The "guest" 2 posts back was mine. I would guess the whooter was posting as "guest55" not Chrissy but its possible he wrote the post before chrissys also. I am keeping a close watch and can spot him easy enough when he shows up.
Also The Who^^
I think they are all thewho^^ believe it or not. I also think RobertBruce is thewho^^ isnt it odd how this bruce guy all of a sudden shows up right after thewho^^ does?
No, RB is not The Who. I know that for certain. This above post, however, is The Who.
Despite what Psy says, The Who is really easy to spot once you know what to look for. He has idiosyncracies that are easy identifiers and also has an extremely limited vocabulary, spells the same words wrong over and again, makes the same grammar errors over and again, etc. He sticks out like a sore thumb to the attentive reader.
What I really want to know is why he spends years trolling survivor boards when his own son committed suicide over the program. You gotta be one deeply disturbed individual to make up a happy story about the program and a ficticious daugter when, in reality, he never had a daughter or a happy experience, only a dead son who killed himself after The Who had him locked up in a program. One sick fuck here, folks.
Post by: TheWho on June 23, 2009, 05:02:12 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 23, 2009, 05:57:59 PM
Seriously who would be that lame to spend hours/years trolling thewho unless it was thewho himself?
Post by: Troll Control on June 23, 2009, 06:10:09 PM
He's such an idiot.
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2009, 07:13:47 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2009, 07:39:29 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Despite what Psy says, The Who is really easy to spot once you know what to look for. He has idiosyncracies that are easy identifiers and also has an extremely limited vocabulary, spells the same words wrong over and again, makes the same grammar errors over and again, etc. He sticks out like a sore thumb to the attentive reader.
What I really want to know is why he spends years trolling survivor boards when his own son committed suicide over the program. You gotta be one deeply disturbed individual to make up a happy story about the program and a ficticious daugter when, in reality, he never had a daughter or a happy experience, only a dead son who killed himself after The Who had him locked up in a program. One sick fuck here, folks.
What is the who's name?
Post by: TheWho on June 23, 2009, 08:36:24 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
ITs funny to think of a middle aged man staging the above conversation. What a sad, sick individual. He really loves torturing kids
The last 2 posts were TheWho^^ Its funny that all the posts on this page are TheWho^^ HaHaHa
Post by: RobertBruce on June 23, 2009, 08:54:45 PM
I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho is a giant dooche bag. I've been laughing at this character for a few years now as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea. Who wouldn't think of it. It's so easy making fun of this guy. I wanted to give all the anti-program posters an opportunity to showcase everything that's sick and wrong with this industry. What better way to do that then to actually have someone who was so clearly brainwashed, and believed in this nonsense so ardently that nothing could disuade him from the truth. An absolute moron who couldnt recognize the truth even when it was staring him straight in the face, or just wouldn't. A complete jackass who could never stand to acknowledge when wrong, and he always is. Before you get too upset with him think about the fact that thewho has severe brain damage. Hes repeatedly make ridiculus claims, or tried to refute obvious facts, only to then turn around and have the proof provided. Remember his numbers concerning the deaths occuring in these places? How he refused to add multitudes of kids who had been murdered, thus drawing more attention to the ones who had. How many more names did the rest of you post on here in an effot to prove him wrong? Or how thewho kept declaring these places "safe" despite the fact that he refused to include abuse. Remember when he claimed 60 kids a week were being killed in public schools? Making nonsensical claims about public schools that had no bearing in reality. All the times he dismissed or ridicule kids who were abused. The guy is sick, I know everyone of you was truly abused, and tortured. I wasn't exaggerating by any means when I mentioned how many parents pm'd me thanking me for shutting thewho up. At the same time I can't tell you how many programmies, and child abuse advocates pm'd thewho, giving him pointers, telling him what they believed was inside information on us, and giving him inside information on themselves, believing it was all in confidence. Who later as a means of expressing his man crush revealed all their secrets to me. CCM Girl, Function Junction, Anne, the list goes on and on, sorry kids your secrets were very much put to good use. In truth thewho is a real person, and he really is as much of a stupid jackass as he appears to be. In any event I hope you all understand my motivations in making fun of him, it was never to waste bandwith, and I'm sorry if I offended any of you. My feelings against these kiddie prisons is that they are all just that, and they serve no good for anyone but greedy child abusers.
In the mean time why dont we all post some of our favorite Who comments? He can't go back and change them now, so its a perfect opportunity to ridicule him!
http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php? ... ne#p255367 (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21224&p=255367&hilit=whine#p255367)
Quote
Honestly, I don't feel any particular urge to defend kids when they whine about getting back just a tiny fraction of what they've put their parents through. Sorry, go cry on someone else's shoulder
You're pretty sick Cindy.
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2009, 08:59:04 PM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
QuoteDJ calm down, its going to be okay, if you really want us to say the majority agrees with you we will, I promise.
All I want is for you to prove your statement that only 1.5% of professional mental health workers agree that private residential programs are undesirable forms of treatment and that 98.5% support, endorse and refer to programs as you said yesterday.
Just SHOW THE PROOF and we can move on to the next topic. Why do you get so defensive and start lashing out when you get caught in these prevarications? Can't you just admit that you fabricated a number and called it a fact? I thought you were a grown-up...?
So, please, if you can't support what you say admit it and move on. At ASR you'd be on restrictions for "not getting honest."
Now, tell the truth or move the rockpile. you choose. :lol:
This thread has since devolved into incomprehensible nonsense, but here's something from its beginning,when TheIt was logging in.. That was nice because one would could watch its insane lies, verbal abuse of survivors ("haha. Your getting molested is funny") and avoidance tactics, which made it a creepy, illustrative embodiment of Academy at Swift river, division of Synanon, and the "teen help" industry in general. The fact that its kid apparently killed himself makes it equally illustrative, less strictly humorous.
I guess since DJ and Robert Bruce kept embarrassing it by catching it in lies or untruths,whatever you want to call them, on the internet —its only outlet and probably its part time job—it became fixated on these people.
Thewho, a troll in the traditional sense of the word, and a crazy sock puppet for the industry: the price of free speech on fornits
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2009, 09:02:25 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
*sigh*
I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho and I are one and the same. I created the character a few years ago as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea. I wanted to give all the anti-program posters an opportunity to showcase everything that's sick and wrong with this industry. What better way to do that then to actually have someone who was so clearly brainwashed, and believed in this nonsense so ardently that nothing could disuade him from the truth. An absolute moron who couldnt recognize the truth even when it was staring him straight in the face, or just wouldn't. A complete jackass who could never stand to acknowledge when wrong, and he always is. Before you get too upset with me think about what my creating thewho has done for us. Under his guise I would repeatedly make ridiculus claims, or refute obvious facts, only to then turn around and have the proof provided. Remember my numbers concerning the deaths occuring in these places? How I refused to add multitudes of kids who had been murdered, thus drawing more attention to the ones who had. How many more names did the rest of you post on here in an effot to prove "me" wrong? Or how I as thewho kept declaring these places "safe" despite the fact that he refused to include abuse. Remember when I had him claim 60 kids a week were being killed in public schools? Making nonsensical claims about public schools that had no bearing in reality. All the times I had him dismiss or ridicule kids who were abused. I am sorry for that, it was difficult, I know everyone of you was truly abused, and tortured. I wasn't exaggerating by any means when I mentioned how many parents pm'd me as RobertBruce thanking me for shutting thewho up. At the same time I can't tell you how many programmies, and child abuse advocates pm'd me as thewho, giving me pointers, telling me what they believed was inside information on us, and giving me inside information on themselves, believing it was all in confidence. CCM Girl, Function Junction, Anne, the list goes on and on, sorry kids your secrets were very much put to good use. In truth thewho is based on a real person, and he really is as much of a stupid jackass as I made him out to be. In any event I hope you all understand my motivations, it was never to trick anyone, and I'm sorry if I offended any of you. My feelings against these kiddie prisons is that they are all just that, and they serve no good for anyone but greedy child abusers.
Nobody but thewho "confuses" you with being thewho.
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2009, 09:24:31 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
ITs funny to think of a middle aged man staging the above conversation. What a sad, sick individual. He really loves torturing kids
Au contraire, mes petit jeune fille!! Whootie's got the staying power of a teenage boy!! rrrrrRRRRRAHRRRRRrrrrrr!
Post by: RobertBruce on June 23, 2009, 09:39:36 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 23, 2009, 10:23:54 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Creepy. I forgot all about the signature argument. Classic. Remember I had him claiming that a person signing for an entire organization only equaled one person, and he somehow could grasp the simple concept of a group or organization passing a resolution. And then to sweeten his stupidity I made him claim there were only 10,000 psychologist in the US. Wow did I do a good job making a him a moron or what?
Wow, this guy is still obsessed. If robert Bruce isnt thewho can someone get thewho out here to calm this man down. He needs to be confronted. I have seen thewho piss people off before but this guy RB is hooked.
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2009, 10:38:45 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"Creepy. I forgot all about the signature argument. Classic. Remember I had him claiming that a person signing for an entire organization only equaled one person, and he somehow could grasp the simple concept of a group or organization passing a resolution. And then to sweeten his stupidity I made him claim there were only 10,000 psychologist in the US. Wow did I do a good job making a him a moron or what?
Wow, this guy is still obsessed. If robert Bruce isnt thewho can someone get thewho out here to calm this man down. He needs to be confronted. I have seen thewho piss people off before but this guy RB is hooked.
Maybe the above explains thewho's dedication to harassing survivors of institutionalized torture and brainwashing? He simply enjoys it? He likes "confronting" (upsetting, mocking, haranguing, hurting people through sensitive personal topics) and this is the only medium he has to do it, now that his kid committed suicide?
Post by: RobertBruce on June 24, 2009, 12:31:18 AM
Post by: RobertBruce on June 24, 2009, 12:33:15 AM
Post by: TheWho on June 24, 2009, 07:12:08 AM
Post by: RobertBruce on June 24, 2009, 07:18:30 AM
Post by: TheWho on June 24, 2009, 07:39:17 AM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Disgusting isn't it? We all know that no child would ever lie about being abused or tortured in these programs, there's no need to. The abuse occurs in every program. Don't you agree? In any event I was still basing this on the real who. He not only advocates abuse in these programs, but then denies its existence, and then turns around and abuses his own children.
But why would you make up a character which made fun of survivors and call them all liars? No one thought any of it was funny except you. Why would you do this. you were in a program yourself wernt you? We are trying to spread awareness here RB, your disgusting.
Post by: Troll Control on June 24, 2009, 08:40:13 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"Disgusting isn't it? We all know that no child would ever lie about being abused or tortured in these programs, there's no need to. The abuse occurs in every program. Don't you agree? In any event I was still basing this on the real who. He not only advocates abuse in these programs, but then denies its existence, and then turns around and abuses his own children.
But why would you make up a character which made fun of survivors and call them all liars? No one thought any of it was funny except you. Why would you do this. you were in a program yourself wernt you? We are trying to spread awareness here RB, your disgusting.
Thw Who, AGAIN. This is why I love this thread. He has to spend several hours a day just trolling his own thread which keeps him busy from harassing those of us who have been abused at the hands of people just like him. The same type of people who drove his son to kill himself. This is a sad, sad excuse for a human being, people.
Post by: TheWho on June 24, 2009, 09:04:57 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Disgusting isn't it? We all know that no child would ever lie about being abused or tortured in these programs, there's no need to. The abuse occurs in every program. Don't you agree? In any event I was still basing this on the real who. He not only advocates abuse in these programs, but then denies its existence, and then turns around and abuses his own children.
But why would you make up a character which made fun of survivors and call them all liars? No one thought any of it was funny except you. Why would you do this. you were in a program yourself wernt you? We are trying to spread awareness here RB, your disgusting.
Thw Who, AGAIN. This is why I love this thread. He has to spend several hours a day just trolling his own thread which keeps him busy from harassing those of us who have been abused at the hands of people just like him. The same type of people who drove his son to kill himself. This is a sad, sad excuse for a human being, people.
I think RB/TheWho are both sick characters and need to think about what they are saying here. I find them both offensive to those of us who are trying to get the truth out about these places. Why cant you write something more constructive or think about the time you spent at HLA before making fun of these places RB?
Post by: Froderik on June 24, 2009, 09:21:29 AM
Quote from: "TheWho?"
Why cant you write something more constructive or think about the time you spent at HLA before making fun of these places RB?Where was he making fun of these places on here?
Post by: TheWho on June 24, 2009, 09:39:06 AM
Quote from: "Froderik"
Quote from: "TheWho?"Why cant you write something more constructive or think about the time you spent at HLA before making fun of these places RB?Where was he making fun of these places on here?
He was making fun of this kid from TB who was duct taped and thrown in the ocean among other things. He thought this was one of the funniest posts and made a point to hilight the others that were humorous also. I cant remember if he was logged in as RobertBruce or thewho but it really pissed me off at the time. The kid that posted that never came back to this forum.
Post by: TheWho on June 24, 2009, 09:50:30 AM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho and I are one and the same. I created the character a few years ago as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea.......
Ya know I thought there was something funny about how they were always both here at the same time. Robert Bruce never posted unless thewho was logged in. I have to admit that you had me fooled for awhile RB.
Post by: Troll Control on June 24, 2009, 12:19:24 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 24, 2009, 02:06:10 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Previous posts are once more The Who. Since he's a disgusting and craven coward, he'd like nothing more than to transfer his legacy onto someone else, much like he transferred his parenting responsibility to a duck farm which resulted in his kid offing himself. Very classy, Who. Very classy.
If you read the last 4 pages you will see most of the posts were by RobertBruce pretending to be thewho. He cant log in as him anymore because he gave up that name and now just uses RobertBruce. He discust me doesnt matter which name he logs in as. This whole thread is a train wreck.
Check out the link below. I suspected that all along but never had proof. The guy is sick, attended HLA and then comes on here with a story that he was a program parent and starts insulting fellow survivors by discarding personal stories. Why wouldnt he just stick to being a HLA survivor? Why invent another story and identity?
RobertBruce is TheWho (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=045d2ec2a3dd07172ab24aabf37e73fa&sid=045d2ec2a3dd07172ab24aabf37e73fa#p334604)
Post by: TheWho on June 24, 2009, 03:07:58 PM
Bruce, You are a sick person and owe a lot of people an apology.
Post by: psy on June 24, 2009, 03:27:10 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 24, 2009, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
I tolerated thewho because he represented what I hated the most and I know that these type of people exist. But I think what hurts me the most is to find out that he is one of us, a survivor all along. It just makes me sick knowing that someone who had been through what we have is capable of saying those words to us and enjoying fooling us for all those years.
Bruce, You are a sick person and owe a lot of people an apology.
Technically he isnt a survivor. He was only at HLA for 2 weeks and then left. So he doesnt understand what the rest of us went thru or how these places operated other than what he read here. I think that is why he is able to be so insensitive to others.
just my two cents
Post by: Troll Control on June 24, 2009, 05:12:00 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 24, 2009, 05:17:13 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
The Who^^ Just like all of the other posts. Seriously, this guy has a kid who offed himself due to abuse suffered at ASR (where The Who sent him) and the best he can do is to troll a kid who survived the same abuse? This is a sorry motherfucker through and through. Since his kid is dead because of his actions, he now wishes all kids who survived to be further abused. Very, very sick person here, people.
Maybe someone should pm RobertBruce to get him to cut the crap and apologize for all he did. This TheWho fiasco is just wrong and he should appologize as RobertBruce and as Thewho.
Post by: Troll Control on June 24, 2009, 06:32:31 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
The Who^^ Just like all of the other posts. Seriously, this guy has a kid who offed himself due to abuse suffered at ASR (where The Who sent him) and the best he can do is to troll a kid who survived the same abuse? This is a sorry motherfucker through and through. Since his kid is dead because of his actions, he now wishes all kids who survived to be further abused. Very, very sick person here, people.
The above is very true, unfortunately.
I do think it's funny, though, that The Who has spent all day just typing in confirmation codes. I love watching his flailing. :beat:
Post by: TheWho on June 24, 2009, 06:53:33 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"The Who^^ Just like all of the other posts. Seriously, this guy has a kid who offed himself due to abuse suffered at ASR (where The Who sent him) and the best he can do is to troll a kid who survived the same abuse? This is a sorry motherfucker through and through. Since his kid is dead because of his actions, he now wishes all kids who survived to be further abused. Very, very sick person here, people.
The above is very true, unfortunately.
I do think it's funny, though, that The Who has spent all day just typing in confirmation codes. I love watching his flailing. :beat:
I agree, he is a fucking loser and I am tired of reading this mess and what is even sadder is that RobertBruce/TheWho spent years doing this. Look at these hudreds of pages of garbage that the Bruce filled with his time going back and forth being "thewho" and then "RobertBruce". That is an insanity all in itself. Is this the type of person that HLA churns out? He was only there a week but still it seems they had their effect on him.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 24, 2009, 08:28:09 PM
Quote
Technically he isnt a survivor. He was only at HLA for 2 weeks and then left. So he doesnt understand what the rest of us went thru or how these places operated other than what he read here. I think that is why he is able to be so insensitive to others.
just my two cents
You're mistaken. I was actually there for about a year. No need to apologize, you were just given erroneous information by an HLA staffer who has no regard for HIPPA laws, or laws in general, hence why HLA has broken and continues to break so many of them. That being said let me clear up some misconceptions. TheWho character is a closed minded moron who is afraid of the truth. He's a stubborn idiot who refused to acknowledge facts, I was giving us the chance to hammer the truth down his throat. The dumber and more obstinant he showed himself to be, the more facts about how abusive and dangerous this industry is were brought to bear. Still the downside was that I was a little too effective in highlighting thewho as a moron who is incapable of carrying on a rationale conversation. He's obsessed with his own credibility despite the fact that he never had any. In his never ending quest though he did on occasion exasperate people with his refusal to accept reality. For some it was like talking to a brick wall, he is as dumb as humanly possible.
That then being the case Psy, since I Who appears to still be playing games and claiming that he and I are the same poster, can you link up all those guest postings to each respective name. Who, if you're still on here please help to clear up the confusion and request psy do the same thing with your posts. Hopefully that'll straighten things right up.
Post by: Anonymous on June 24, 2009, 08:41:37 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 25, 2009, 07:15:40 AM
What may help is if you start logging in more instead of posting as a guest. That way you wouldn’t have to bother Psy each time you want to consolidate your posts under a single account.
You should try to get some rest and stick with one identity for a few days.
Post by: Troll Control on June 25, 2009, 08:27:04 AM
Everyone knows RB is not The Who, but The Who desperately wants to blame others for his actions, which is understandable considdering everything he has ever posted here is a tissue of lies. He went as far as to make up a ficticious daughter who "loved the program" when in reality the program broke his son and drove him to suicide.
The Who: father to a ficticious daughter and a dead son.
Post by: Troll Control on June 25, 2009, 08:35:45 AM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Kind of an embarrassing story but last Sunday I took the kids to church while my wife stayed home, which was a change because I don’t normally go, I hate going but we do it for the kids. But anyway I came home with a black eye and my kids don’t want me to go with them to church anymore. But I was standing there in church and was really board and the woman in front of me had a what appeared to be a really uncomfortable wedgy so I reached over and pulled it out, figuring it would make her feel more comfortable. She turned around and gave me the most unbelievable dirty look I have ever seen. I know what you are thinking and my wife asked me the same thing… “When did I get the black eye?”. Well I figured she probably liked it that way so after thinking about it awhile I tucked it back in for her.
...
Since you have only one live kid, does this mean you dragged the other one's corpse to church? Or maybe this was his funeral??
Post by: TheWho on June 25, 2009, 08:43:00 AM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho and I are one and the same. I created the character a few years ago as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea. I wanted to give all the anti-program posters an opportunity to showcase everything that's sick and wrong with this industry. What better way to do that then to actually have someone who was so clearly brainwashed, and believed in this nonsense so ardently that nothing could disuade him from the truth. An absolute moron who couldnt recognize the truth even when it was staring him straight in the face, or just wouldn't.......
I think Robert feels much better now that he has finally starting being truthful with us.
Post by: Troll Control on June 25, 2009, 11:55:17 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho and I are one and the same. I created the character a few years ago as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea. I wanted to give all the anti-program posters an opportunity to showcase everything that's sick and wrong with this industry. What better way to do that then to actually have someone who was so clearly brainwashed, and believed in this nonsense so ardently that nothing could disuade him from the truth. An absolute moron who couldnt recognize the truth even when it was staring him straight in the face, or just wouldn't.......
I think Robert feels much better now that he has finally starting being truthful with us.
It's called "sarcasm." Look it up, Whooter. Now, tell us, was this church visit for your kid's funeral? Or were services held right at ASR?
Post by: Troll Control on June 25, 2009, 12:03:55 PM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
OK, here's The Who lying through his teeth yet again (surprise, surprise).
THIS is the original beginning of the argument where YOU said "The overwhelming majority of professionals believe these schools are making a big difference in these kids lives and are responsible for turning them around and getting them on track..." This is the very beginning. You also went back and edited your post later to remove this, but, of course I had already quoted you, so the cat was out of the bag at that point.QuoteOn 2006-06-21 09:21:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Quote
The overwhelming majority of professionals believe these schools are making a big difference in these kids lives and are responsible for turning them around and getting them on track...
This is an unmitigated crock of shit. Show the documentation that supports this ridiculous notion.Quote
And yes I believe we are all on equal footing and have a right to state our opinions from our own experiences.
Everyone here has the unabridged right to post what they want. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Your opinion happens to be wrong. It is so wrong that you have to fabricate statements like the one above stating the "overwhelming majority of professionals" recommend this treatment. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. But, hey, that never stops you! :lol:
"
Again, I'll ask you: Can you provide evidence that "The overwhelming majority of professionals believe these schools are making a big difference in these kids lives and are responsible for turning them around and getting them on track..." or can't you?
You've spent two days dodging the issue, editing your posts and lying like a rug to avoid answering for this statement. You said it, now back it up.
You also said "The professionals don't agree with you, DJ" but I was able to provide a list of at least 130 individuals and a half-dozen professional societies consisting of thousands of members. You have provided exactly NOTHING to support your claim.
That's the difference between you and me, Who. I say what I mean, I am accountable for it and provide evidence to support it. You lie, make things up, edit your posts to remove the lies you've been caught in and sign my name to anonymous posts that I didn't write.
You are a pathetic individual.
Complete ownaj. It seems The Who's MO is still the same after all these years. Pose as others, delete posts, edit posts retroactively, try to pass himself off as others (DJ before, RB now), etc.
What motivates a father whose kid ended his life over the father's program placement of the child to continually attack kids who have been similarly victimized, but were lucky enough to survive it? Guy's got some real mental health issues, IMHO.
Post by: Inculcated on June 25, 2009, 12:51:07 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 25, 2009, 01:56:15 PM
It was funny for awhile watching RB rip apart DJ but I think RobertBruce went to far when he started ridiculing random survivors. That just wasnt right. An exstaff maybe is fair game.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 25, 2009, 03:46:06 PM
Didn't you claim before that it was terrible the way Deborah posted pictures of unqualified, unlicensed staff members and a list of their hobbies? You cried about that for weeks, after the person in question posted it to the programs website themselves. Kept ranting on and on about how "they were just kids starting out", yet you still so no issue with staff members breaking HIPPA laws or committing libel against former inmates. Care to explain the double standard?
Probably not. Youre still far too much of a coward.
In any event, Psy, since thewho is still playing games can you go ahead and link up all my guest posts under my username? I want to make sure I'm held accountable for all my actions, as I have nothing to hide.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 25, 2009, 03:48:02 PM
Quote from: "Casual Observer"
I always wondered why TheWho would bother with HLA when he had no association with it. But now that we found out RobertBruce and TheWho are the same person it fits together. RobertBruce probably had Dysfunction Junction as a counselor, during his two week stint at HLA and made up TheWho name to antagonize DJ as his way of getting back at his ex staff. Then he pretended to be his buddy when he posted as RobertBruce.
It was funny for awhile watching RB rip apart DJ but I think RobertBruce went to far when he started ridiculing random survivors. That just wasnt right. An exstaff maybe is fair game.
Actually I believe Dysfunction worked in admin. Besides, he was there and gone several years before I showed up. He recognized very early on what a scam that place was, and got away from it as quickly as possible.
Post by: TheWho on June 25, 2009, 03:57:39 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
:roflmao:
Didn't you claim before that it was terrible the way Deborah posted pictures of unqualified, unlicensed staff members and a list of their hobbies? You cried about that for weeks, after the person in question posted it to the programs website themselves. Kept ranting on and on about how "they were just kids starting out", yet you still so no issue with staff members breaking HIPPA laws or committing libel against former inmates. Care to explain the double standard?
Probably not. Youre still far too much of a coward.
In any event, Psy, since I am thewho can you go ahead and link up all my guest posts under that username? I want to make sure I'm held accountable for all my actions, and all the games I played.
Speaking of HIPPA laws, when confronted or cornered you always revert to utilizing either the words "Coward" or "Homosexual" when trying to antagonize others. Are these the same areas you struggled with at HLA? Its interesting how these keep coming up in your posts. Is this why you spent so much time masked as TheWho attacking DJ? Was this the staff member that was assigned to you?
I think we know the answer I just wanted to hear it from you when you were logged in as RobertBruce not TheWho.
Post by: Troll Control on June 25, 2009, 04:45:29 PM
Tell us about how you drove your son to suicide, Who.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 25, 2009, 04:52:26 PM
As to the coward comments, well I just sort have to call it like I see it. I cannot for the life of me fathom why anyone would be so ardent about a position or viewpoint, state something they believe to be facts, and then refuse to ever back up their claims. If that was all the person was going to do, why did they bring it up to begin with? Further why would someone make something up, and then try and demand that others prove them wrong? Why would they rant and rave about an issue, yet refuse to answer questions about their own statement. It seems to be the only legitimate reason would be because the person actually knows they're wrong, they can't back it up, they just believe if they ignore the truth for long enough, eventually it will go away. This is a person who is honestly afraid of being wrong. Hence, a coward. To answer your other question, no, this topic didnt come up at HLA either. Although I did once recieve a work assignment for proving a counselor wrong. I was happy to receive it.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 25, 2009, 04:54:52 PM
Did you have any other questions about my time there?
Post by: Inculcated on June 25, 2009, 05:04:28 PM
As far as Sock puppet /alter egos Who who else are you?
Post by: RobertBruce on June 25, 2009, 05:18:26 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 25, 2009, 07:03:57 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Just those two.
So the only time you reference bi or gay was when you are logged in as TheWho. Why did you continue to fight with yourself online using two different id's? Why did you publically antagonize Dysfunction Junction and make him look foolish. Trying to say that the more offensive posts where made by someone else doesnt work because there can only be one identity/username called "TheWho" or"RobertBruce" or "psy" etc. I cant log in and pretend to be psy or Ursus etc. So you have been very offensive on this board but what you are saying is you were not offensive when logged in as RobertBruce.
Your argument and logic is interesting.
Post by: Troll Control on June 25, 2009, 07:35:31 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 25, 2009, 07:44:47 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
^^The Who^^ Fictitious "family man."Yeah, who would have thought, the whole thing was a scam right from the beginning. Orchestrated by a fellow survivor no less.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 26, 2009, 12:26:18 AM
Quote
So the only time you reference bi or gay was when you are logged in as TheWho. Why did you continue to fight with yourself online using two different id's? Why did you publically antagonize Dysfunction Junction and make him look foolish. Trying to say that the more offensive posts where made by someone else doesnt work because there can only be one identity/username called "TheWho" or"RobertBruce" or "psy" etc. I cant log in and pretend to be psy or Ursus etc. So you have been very offensive on this board but what you are saying is you were not offensive when logged in as RobertBruce.
Your argument and logic is interesting
Thewho never made Dysfunction look foolish, quite the opposite. Thewho never won a single argument, least of all with Dysfunction. He was owned time and again. Often thewho would claim that he would acknowledge he'd been proven wrong if Dysfunction could meet a certain criteria. Dysfunction of course would, and thewho was still too stupid and obstinant to accept he'd been proven wrong. Remember when he refused to back up his own claim about the majority of mental health experts buying into this abusive industry?
As to additional posters being on here under existing usernames, I'm not sure what to tell you. I know some time ago there was this cry baby bitch who posted on here until he was banned. He would on a daily basis be forced to put his foot in his mouth. He loved to try and go back and alter posts after he'd been proven wrong on issues, and he hated the quote function. Everytime someone hit him over the head with his own comments he'd claim he was the victim of some imaginary conspiracy and his posts had been altered. Who knows.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2009, 12:54:10 AM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Thewho never won a single argument, least of all with Dysfunction. He was owned time and again.
Silly boy, Row-row-Brucie! You WISH! The only one that "owns" Whootie is ME! rrrrrRRRRRAHRRRrrrrr!
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2009, 07:09:32 AM
Post by: RobertBruce on June 26, 2009, 08:18:02 AM
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2009, 08:36:14 AM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Do you realize how many kids I saved from this abusive industry? Because thewho was too stupid to ever accept facts in arguments with him facts and figures were brought to light so much more often. He was beaten over the head with the evidence. I can't tell you how many parents pm'd me thanking me for providing the evidence they needed not to send their child to one of those death traps. I'm sure I'm not alone on that. Besides, are you going to tell me you didnt think it was funny watching thewho get his ass handed to hm, time and time again. Him and all his child abusing buddies, I know I enjoyed watching them try their hardest, but still losing.
But why did you ridicule fellow survivors? You were in a program yourself but you found humor in dismissing other survivors stories and making fun of them. I didnt see the humor or the point of this.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 26, 2009, 09:17:42 AM
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2009, 09:26:38 AM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Must have been the clone. I know how terrible and disgusting this industry is, ask Psy about it.
You are not being truthful. Only one person can have the log-in TheWho. This cannot be duplicated and has been confirmed. So it leaves "you" as the only one who ridiculed survivors for your own amusement. Now that you are exposed you are trying to distance yourself from the more embarrassing posts. You are a liar and a weasel RobertBruce hiding behind a user name to ridicule fellow survivors.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 26, 2009, 09:30:47 AM
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2009, 09:35:03 AM
Now, rather than trying to make RB the fall-guy for your disgusting posts, Who, just tell us about how you contributed to the death of a minor, namely, your son. Let's hear about how you led your child to kill himself. That's the only story left to tell about you, pal.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 26, 2009, 09:48:55 AM
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2009, 09:52:39 AM
"I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho and I are one and the same. I created the character a few years ago as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea. I wanted to give all the anti-program posters an opportunity to showcase everything that's sick and wrong with this industry....."
Original post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=1a23f19b6b7b70edb37cbe9089fd6b4a&sid=1a23f19b6b7b70edb37cbe9089fd6b4a#p334604)
I guess we can agree that TheWho was abusive, but the question remains as to why you would hide behind this user name and take pot shots at fellow survivors? What was gained by that Bruce?
Post by: RobertBruce on June 26, 2009, 10:25:57 AM
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2009, 12:12:23 PM
Does anyone else find it funny that a guy who had his kid locked up in a program to learn "accountability for his actions" spends years of his life right here avoiding his own accountability? It's rich. And it's funny.
But it is sad that his kid was just learning from The Who's modeling - i.e. blame others and never take accountability for your own actions - and The Who had him locked up at ASR which damaged the kid's psyche so badly that he killed himself.
All because The Who raised his kid this way by example. It's your fault, Who, that your kid is dead. You can't blame that on RB. Maybe if you were an upright and moral man your kid would have been, too. And he wouldn't be RIP now. Think about that for a while, Whooter.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2009, 01:18:05 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2009, 01:26:06 PM
2. Public schools are safer than programs.
3. Aspen is reorganizing itself into a tight, easily flushable clump of cat shit.
There.
Post by: Whobot on June 26, 2009, 01:43:07 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2009, 02:02:17 PM
Don't forget to inquire about The Who's son who killed himself after being thrown into SUWS and ASR for behaving just like his daddy does. That is the saddest and sickest shit in this thread.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2009, 02:17:36 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""You say so, thats nice. That means nothing.
When fornits says a PROGRAM, we mean a coersion and isolation based program, be it at a institution or wilderness camp, Who.
Those places do not teach, they force.
And thats fine, I have a different definition its called TBS and they teach and show a different way, no force.
What did they teach your son? How to make a noose??
Post by: Inculcated on June 26, 2009, 03:58:26 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2009, 04:50:27 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
I like posting in this thread because The Who has such a sick need to avoid accountability and to get the last word that all I have to do is post here and he's tied up for the day, leaving valuable threads un-trolled by this asswipe.
Does anyone else find it funny that a guy who had his kid locked up in a program to learn "accountability for his actions" spends years of his life right here avoiding his own accountability? It's rich. And it's funny.
But it is sad that his kid was just learning from The Who's modeling - i.e. blame others and never take accountability for your own actions - and The Who had him locked up at ASR which damaged the kid's psyche so badly that he killed himself.
All because The Who raised his kid this way by example. It's your fault, Who, that your kid is dead. You can't blame that on RB. Maybe if you were an upright and moral man your kid would have been, too. And he wouldn't be RIP now. Think about that for a while, Whooter.
I dont think RobertBruce has any kids at all. When he took on "TheWho" name he made all that up to pretend he was a program parent. This sick need for attention drove him to have multiple log-ins which allowed him to speak to himself. So atleast on paper it appeared he was conversing with someone. Looking back on this whole thing it is amazing this Bruce guy could even have time to hold down a job.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2009, 05:00:22 PM
Quote
RobertBruces own words:
"I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho and I are one and the same. I created the character a few years ago as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea. I wanted to give all the anti-program posters an opportunity to showcase everything that's sick and wrong with this industry....."
Original post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=9d4b6ff43b71ee761684cef9b5b536b4&sid=9d4b6ff43b71ee761684cef9b5b536b4#p334604)
I guess we can agree that TheWho was abusive, but the question remains as to why you would hide behind this user name and take pot shots at fellow survivors? What was gained by that Bruce?
You are one twisted freak Brucie or TheWho whatever your name is. You both fucking suck and you are sick to even think this shit up in the first place.
Post by: Whobot on June 26, 2009, 05:06:29 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2009, 05:44:35 PM
Quote from: "Whobot"
Aspen is going down the shit pipe financially. Perhaps Aspen should sue the Who for bringing negative attention to their operation. The who caused people to really hate Aspen as a whole with his arrogant, misinformed and belligerent posts. Thanks who. You have done so much to bring attention to the abuses occurring in Aspen programs. You put the spotlight on them, ha, ha.
Its a good thing that they are going down the shit pipe. TheWho was hoping it would go down also, Bruce was just trying to stir things up by pretending to like the place was okay,when logged in as thewho . At least that is what I read a few pages back. We all know that all programs are shit pits.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 26, 2009, 07:10:42 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2009, 07:18:45 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
I like posting in this thread because The Who has such a sick need to avoid accountability and to get the last word that all I have to do is post here and he's tied up for the day, leaving valuable threads un-trolled by this asswipe.
Does anyone else find it funny that a guy who had his kid locked up in a program to learn "accountability for his actions" spends years of his life right here avoiding his own accountability? It's rich. And it's funny.
But it is sad that his kid was just learning from The Who's modeling - i.e. blame others and never take accountability for your own actions - and The Who had him locked up at ASR which damaged the kid's psyche so badly that he killed himself.
All because The Who raised his kid this way by example. It's your fault, Who, that your kid is dead. You can't blame that on RB. Maybe if you were an upright and moral man your kid would have been, too. And he wouldn't be RIP now. Think about that for a while, Whooter.
This really describes the essence of The Who. He is really, really creepy.
How can RB and The Who be the same person when RB has never had a child (he's about a decade too young to even have a teenage kid, BTW) and The Who drove one of his two teens to suicide? Doesn't add up. Of course everyone knows about The Who already, so this is just more flailing. He tends to do this when certain truths about him are exposed, like the latest, his dead son. Why would someone whose child was destroyed by SUWS and ASR be so hell-bent on further abusing survivors here? Two reasons: He's a "tough love" sycophant and he gets paid to troll fornits and lure desperate parents to shitpits for commissions. It's how he earns his living.
Stand by for uninterrupted self-flagellation, brought to you by The Whooter.
:beat:
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2009, 07:19:46 PM
I think you should appologize
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2009, 07:21:42 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2009, 07:22:55 PM
Quote from: "Guest55"
Quote from: "MikeThompson"Dammit!! Is there anyway I could get my old name back? Do you think Ursus would sell it back to me? ...
Better yet, they should give you your own forum and ban you from all others. You could c/p posts and respond to them there. Anyone interested in your bs tripe could visit your forum/blog to read it.
So Who, did Bain or CRC fund the SC test case?
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Nope, no kids, couple of dogs though. As far as jobs go I'm pretty stable since college. Of course with the economy the way it is and so many people out of work I count myself lucky. I knew one guy, he tried to take credit for landing this big account for his company, luckily his employees saw right through it and fired him right there on the spot. The guy whose account he tried to take laughed at him on the way out the door. The guy who got fired wasnt in too bad a shape though. His daddy works for Bain Capitol, and he's been living off his daddy ever since. He later went on to go through life avoiding ever taking respondsibility for anything, or ever admitting when wrong. Even his own son (or who he thinks was his son, his wife sleeps around, a lot) was too much of a burden, so he shipped him off to an abusive program to be parented. Sadly he later offed himself, he guy though, he still refused to take respondsibility. Did he leave a note Cindy? Did he blame you?For those who may’ve missed that nuance in the convoluted plot development…What?
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2009, 07:26:12 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"I like posting in this thread because The Who has such a sick need to avoid accountability and to get the last word that all I have to do is post here and he's tied up for the day, leaving valuable threads un-trolled by this asswipe.
Does anyone else find it funny that a guy who had his kid locked up in a program to learn "accountability for his actions" spends years of his life right here avoiding his own accountability? It's rich. And it's funny.
But it is sad that his kid was just learning from The Who's modeling - i.e. blame others and never take accountability for your own actions - and The Who had him locked up at ASR which damaged the kid's psyche so badly that he killed himself.
All because The Who raised his kid this way by example. It's your fault, Who, that your kid is dead. You can't blame that on RB. Maybe if you were an upright and moral man your kid would have been, too. And he wouldn't be RIP now. Think about that for a while, Whooter.
This really describes the essence of The Who. He is really, really creepy.
How can RB and The Who be the same person when RB has never had a child (he's about a decade too young to even have a teenage kid, BTW) and The Who drove one of his two teens to suicide? Doesn't add up. Of course everyone knows about The Who already, so this is just more flailing. He tends to do this when certain truths about him are exposed, like the latest, his dead son. Why would someone whose child was destroyed by SUWS and ASR be so hell-bent on further abusing survivors here? Two reasons: He's a "tough love" sycophant and he gets paid to troll fornits and lure desperate parents to shitpits for commissions. It's how he earns his living.
Stand by for uninterrupted self-flagellation, brought to you by The Whooter.
:beat:
:roflmao: Lulz. It took Whooter exactly two minutes to be notified by email on his blackberry and rush here to post. Guess his Friday nights are not as exciting as he'd led us to believe ("Gotta run! Going out, sorry!"). Pfffsh... Epic lulz at a low-life professional troll.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2009, 07:40:43 PM
Quote from: "Casual Observer"
So you made TheWho character after this guy you knew at work. Sort of a loser who had a rich father. Its a great idea by why would you have TheWho make fun of fellow survivors. You didnt have to take it that far. It really makes you look like scum Bruce. You are worse than he was. At least with TheWho the way we knew him we understood why he had screwed up thinking,ie kid in a program, another committed suicide etc. and we knew he was a loser because he screwed his own kids up and then shipped them off when he couldnt handle parenting any longer. But for you to write this knowing what we all went thru in these places is really fucked up Brucie.
I think you should appologize
When Bruce first came out of the closet and told everyone he was the one behind thewho posts it really added up. The two of them being always logged on at the same time. But then I got pissed because RobertBruce supposedly was in a program so why would he have TheWho say all those hurtful things about me and the rest of us who were put into programs against out will? Why do you think it is such a joke now? I for one will not forget what you said to me.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2009, 08:26:29 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2009, 08:43:52 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Ha, ha. The who wants to be Robert Bruce? Come on who. You are more than a casual observer. Inflict yourself on us by name.Go back a few pages. TheWho already is RobertBruce!! thats been the conversation.
Post by: Troll Control on June 26, 2009, 09:05:38 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"I like posting in this thread because The Who has such a sick need to avoid accountability and to get the last word that all I have to do is post here and he's tied up for the day, leaving valuable threads un-trolled by this asswipe.
Does anyone else find it funny that a guy who had his kid locked up in a program to learn "accountability for his actions" spends years of his life right here avoiding his own accountability? It's rich. And it's funny.
But it is sad that his kid was just learning from The Who's modeling - i.e. blame others and never take accountability for your own actions - and The Who had him locked up at ASR which damaged the kid's psyche so badly that he killed himself.
All because The Who raised his kid this way by example. It's your fault, Who, that your kid is dead. You can't blame that on RB. Maybe if you were an upright and moral man your kid would have been, too. And he wouldn't be RIP now. Think about that for a while, Whooter.
This really describes the essence of The Who. He is really, really creepy.
How can RB and The Who be the same person when RB has never had a child (he's about a decade too young to even have a teenage kid, BTW) and The Who drove one of his two teens to suicide? Doesn't add up. Of course everyone knows about The Who already, so this is just more flailing. He tends to do this when certain truths about him are exposed, like the latest, his dead son. Why would someone whose child was destroyed by SUWS and ASR be so hell-bent on further abusing survivors here? Two reasons: He's a "tough love" sycophant and he gets paid to troll fornits and lure desperate parents to shitpits for commissions. It's how he earns his living.
Stand by for uninterrupted self-flagellation, brought to you by The Whooter.
:beat:
:roflmao: Lulz. It took Whooter exactly two minutes to be notified by email on his blackberry and rush here to post. Guess his Friday nights are not as exciting as he'd led us to believe ("Gotta run! Going out, sorry!"). Pfffsh... Epic lulz at a low-life professional troll.
No, Mr. "They Killed My Kid But I Love'Em Anyway" The Who. The above is and was the conversation. How does the kid you have left feel about your not spending "family time" tonight and instead obsessing over a kid you never met who was abused like your dead son was? Your kid must be super proud of you.
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2009, 09:40:02 PM
Quote
RobertBruces own words:
"I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho and I are one and the same. I created the character a few years ago as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea. I wanted to give all the anti-program posters an opportunity to showcase everything that's sick and wrong with this industry....."
Original post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=eef85d8954cd35b9a6dd63360448c112&sid=eef85d8954cd35b9a6dd63360448c112#p334604)
I guess we can agree that TheWho was abusive, but the question remains as to why you would hide behind this user name and take pot shots at fellow survivors? What was gained by that Bruce?
You are one twisted freak Brucie or TheWho whatever your name is. You both fucking suck and you are sick to even think this shit up in the first place.
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2009, 09:44:57 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 26, 2009, 10:09:55 PM
Why not rename the thread “A cry for help” or “How I posed as a program parent and stabbed my fellow survivors in the back”
Post by: Troll Control on June 27, 2009, 07:35:44 AM
Quote from: "John Cristy"
Why not rename the thread “A cry for help” or “How a program parent stabbed survivors in the back”
I agree that this is what The Who has done. And set his kid up to snuff himself. I wonder why a guy with so many obvious and deep psychological and family problems has this sick desire to obsessively post here as several people for years. And now he wants RB to take the hit for it (ain't working though, Whooter). Just like in real life where his kids and wife bear the brunt of his stupidity and cruelty. Why would a program parent who locked their kid up at SUWS and ASR specifically for the purpose of teaching him "accountability" try to say or do anything to avoid his own accountability?
BTW, I love the fact that the other threads are kept clean by leveraging The Who's obsession to get the last word and avoid responsibility for his actions. We have achieved synergy here, folks. The Who's own mental sickness forbids him from leaving this thread unanswered. This takes up his time and energy. And, in fact, all he does now is watch this thread, day and night, looking to respond. Then he tells others to "get a life," when all he does, quite literally, is read and post to this thread, like a slave to it. I don't even care what he says. I just want to control his actions, which I do every single day, and very effectively, I might add.
You'd think he'd take a break to put flowers on his kid's grave or something, but, no. Instead he spends all of his waking hours responding to this thread. All day and all night; every day and every night. The obsession grips his tiny mind and the compulsion drives his fingers to the keyboard.
Next act: The Who in a one-man act of impersonations and sad compulsions. Break a leg, Who! We're all waiting for the show! ::deadhorse::
Post by: TheWho on June 27, 2009, 10:55:07 AM
Quote
RobertBruces own words:
"I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho and I are one and the same. I created the character a few years ago as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea. I wanted to give all the anti-program posters an opportunity to showcase everything that's sick and wrong with this industry....."
Original post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=8d646c1d81f7279c3d462558ccf5298c&sid=8d646c1d81f7279c3d462558ccf5298c#p334604)
I guess we can agree that TheWho was abusive, but the question remains as to why you would hide behind this user name and take pot shots at fellow survivors? What was gained by that Bruce?
You are one twisted freak Brucie or TheWho whatever your name is. You both fucking suck and you are sick to even think this shit up in the first place.
Post by: Troll Control on June 27, 2009, 11:43:42 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "John Cristy"Why not rename the thread “A cry for help” or “How a program parent stabbed survivors in the back”
I agree that this is what The Who has done. And set his kid up to snuff himself. I wonder why a guy with so many obvious and deep psychological and family problems has this sick desire to obsessively post here as several people for years. And now he wants RB to take the hit for it (ain't working though, Whooter). Just like in real life where his kids and wife bear the brunt of his stupidity and cruelty. Why would a program parent who locked their kid up at SUWS and ASR specifically for the purpose of teaching him "accountability" try to say or do anything to avoid his own accountability?
BTW, I love the fact that the other threads are kept clean by leveraging The Who's obsession to get the last word and avoid responsibility for his actions. We have achieved synergy here, folks. The Who's own mental sickness forbids him from leaving this thread unanswered. This takes up his time and energy. And, in fact, all he does now is watch this thread, day and night, looking to respond. Then he tells others to "get a life," when all he does, quite literally, is read and post to this thread, like a slave to it. I don't even care what he says. I just want to control his actions, which I do every single day, and very effectively, I might add.
You'd think he'd take a break to put flowers on his kid's grave or something, but, no. Instead he spends all of his waking hours responding to this thread. All day and all night; every day and every night. The obsession grips his tiny mind and the compulsion drives his fingers to the keyboard.
Next act: The Who in a one-man act of impersonations and sad compulsions. Break a leg, Who! We're all waiting for the show! ::deadhorse::
Yes, I agree completely. I also like the fact that because he can't control his posting this thread stays at the top so it's harder for him to try to BS the unwary. Standby for The Who's next response...
Post by: Troll Control on June 27, 2009, 11:48:26 AM
Quote
I just want to control his actions, which I do every single day, and very effectively, I might add.
Yup, that's true. But he is profoundly dumb, so it's easy.
Post by: Froderik on June 27, 2009, 12:02:52 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 27, 2009, 03:49:26 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 27, 2009, 04:04:07 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Me Too, I wish TheWho/RobertBruce would just go away. I am tired of reading this shit. Bruce, Why dont you create another name to replace TheWho,anything would be better than listening to your split personalities.
Above message brought to you by The Who. He's grown tired of his own medicine. But I haven't. Please answer the above questions about your sons, Who. Thanks!
Post by: Troll Control on June 27, 2009, 04:05:19 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "John Cristy"Why not rename the thread “A cry for help” or “How a program parent stabbed survivors in the back”
I agree that this is what The Who has done. And set his kid up to snuff himself. I wonder why a guy with so many obvious and deep psychological and family problems has this sick desire to obsessively post here as several people for years. And now he wants RB to take the hit for it (ain't working though, Whooter). Just like in real life where his kids and wife bear the brunt of his stupidity and cruelty. Why would a program parent who locked their kid up at SUWS and ASR specifically for the purpose of teaching him "accountability" try to say or do anything to avoid his own accountability?
BTW, I love the fact that the other threads are kept clean by leveraging The Who's obsession to get the last word and avoid responsibility for his actions. We have achieved synergy here, folks. The Who's own mental sickness forbids him from leaving this thread unanswered. This takes up his time and energy. And, in fact, all he does now is watch this thread, day and night, looking to respond. Then he tells others to "get a life," when all he does, quite literally, is read and post to this thread, like a slave to it. I don't even care what he says. I just want to control his actions, which I do every single day, and very effectively, I might add.
You'd think he'd take a break to put flowers on his kid's grave or something, but, no. Instead he spends all of his waking hours responding to this thread. All day and all night; every day and every night. The obsession grips his tiny mind and the compulsion drives his fingers to the keyboard.
Next act: The Who in a one-man act of impersonations and sad compulsions. Break a leg, Who! We're all waiting for the show! ::deadhorse::
Yes, I agree completely. I also like the fact that because he can't control his posting this thread stays at the top so it's harder for him to try to BS the unwary. Standby for The Who's next response...
Ha, ha, ha... So true. And fitting.
Post by: TheWho on June 27, 2009, 05:26:01 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Me Too, I wish TheWho/RobertBruce would just go away. I am tired of reading this shit. Bruce, Why dont you create another name to replace TheWho,anything would be better than listening to your split personalities.
Above message brought to you by The Who. He's grown tired of his own medicine. But I haven't. Please answer the above questions about your sons, Who. Thanks!
^^TheWho play tricks again.
Post by: TheWho on June 27, 2009, 05:29:43 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Me Too, I wish TheWho/RobertBruce would just go away. I am tired of reading this shit. Bruce, Why dont you create another name to replace TheWho,anything would be better than listening to your split personalities.
Above message brought to you by The Who. He's grown tired of his own medicine. But I haven't. Please answer the above questions about your sons, Who. Thanks!
^^TheWho play tricks again.
Wait a minute! TheWho is RobertBruce. Hey Whooter!!! How was your atay at HLA? Why not talk about that instead of talking to yourself?
This is so confusing.
Post by: Troll Control on June 27, 2009, 05:30:55 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "John Cristy"Why not rename the thread “A cry for help” or “How a program parent stabbed survivors in the back”
I agree that this is what The Who has done. And set his kid up to snuff himself. I wonder why a guy with so many obvious and deep psychological and family problems has this sick desire to obsessively post here as several people for years. And now he wants RB to take the hit for it (ain't working though, Whooter). Just like in real life where his kids and wife bear the brunt of his stupidity and cruelty. Why would a program parent who locked their kid up at SUWS and ASR specifically for the purpose of teaching him "accountability" try to say or do anything to avoid his own accountability?
BTW, I love the fact that the other threads are kept clean by leveraging The Who's obsession to get the last word and avoid responsibility for his actions. We have achieved synergy here, folks. The Who's own mental sickness forbids him from leaving this thread unanswered. This takes up his time and energy. And, in fact, all he does now is watch this thread, day and night, looking to respond. Then he tells others to "get a life," when all he does, quite literally, is read and post to this thread, like a slave to it. I don't even care what he says. I just want to control his actions, which I do every single day, and very effectively, I might add.
You'd think he'd take a break to put flowers on his kid's grave or something, but, no. Instead he spends all of his waking hours responding to this thread. All day and all night; every day and every night. The obsession grips his tiny mind and the compulsion drives his fingers to the keyboard.
Next act: The Who in a one-man act of impersonations and sad compulsions. Break a leg, Who! We're all waiting for the show! ::deadhorse::
Yes, I agree completely. I also like the fact that because he can't control his posting this thread stays at the top so it's harder for him to try to BS the unwary. Standby for The Who's next response...
Ha, ha, ha... So true. And fitting.
I now command The Who to appear and say he is RB! Do it now, Who!
Post by: TheWho on June 27, 2009, 05:41:20 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 27, 2009, 05:58:00 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Look, cut the crap whoever you are, I went to HLA for a couple months and I dont have any kids (I have dogs). I made up thewho character as a spoof but since DJ was an ex counselor I decided to make a fool of him and make him look bad using TheWho log-in name. I sort of got carried away when I started making fun of survivor stories also.. it was fun at the time and I may appologize at some point but not now. I think if I just keep posting as RobertBruce or as guest I can get past my anger towards HLA and their staff.
The above is RobertBruce pretending to be TheWho pretending to be RobertBruce. I am not going to buy it though.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2009, 06:21:58 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 27, 2009, 06:26:43 PM
Quote from: "The Who was bum raped by aliens"
Does the "Who" lick ball sacks?The only one who could answer that is RobertBruce.
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2009, 06:47:04 PM
Uhhhhhh... We're gonna kick some ass tonite, motherfucker! Life! Life is mine! I take you with me! I take you, I crumble you up, I wad you into a little ball! Death picks its teeth with your head! Life! Life is mine! Yup! Revenge is mine! My war jacks off when it sees your revenge! My war is not alone! It's the only war! Anytime you get your ass down here, kick my ass, no problem! My life is better! Don't fuck with me whatsoever! Yup! Revenge is mine! I take it and I leave it! But this one, motherfucker, is mine! And you're not gettin' it! You're the one that's gonna pay this time, buddy! No prob!
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2009, 07:02:25 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2009, 07:03:27 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 27, 2009, 07:09:54 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 27, 2009, 07:33:49 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "John Cristy"Why not rename the thread “A cry for help” or “How a program parent stabbed survivors in the back”
I agree that this is what The Who has done. And set his kid up to snuff himself. I wonder why a guy with so many obvious and deep psychological and family problems has this sick desire to obsessively post here as several people for years. And now he wants RB to take the hit for it (ain't working though, Whooter). Just like in real life where his kids and wife bear the brunt of his stupidity and cruelty. Why would a program parent who locked their kid up at SUWS and ASR specifically for the purpose of teaching him "accountability" try to say or do anything to avoid his own accountability?
BTW, I love the fact that the other threads are kept clean by leveraging The Who's obsession to get the last word and avoid responsibility for his actions. We have achieved synergy here, folks. The Who's own mental sickness forbids him from leaving this thread unanswered. This takes up his time and energy. And, in fact, all he does now is watch this thread, day and night, looking to respond. Then he tells others to "get a life," when all he does, quite literally, is read and post to this thread, like a slave to it. I don't even care what he says. I just want to control his actions, which I do every single day, and very effectively, I might add.
You'd think he'd take a break to put flowers on his kid's grave or something, but, no. Instead he spends all of his waking hours responding to this thread. All day and all night; every day and every night. The obsession grips his tiny mind and the compulsion drives his fingers to the keyboard.
Next act: The Who in a one-man act of impersonations and sad compulsions. Break a leg, Who! We're all waiting for the show! ::deadhorse::
Yes, I agree completely. I also like the fact that because he can't control his posting this thread stays at the top so it's harder for him to try to BS the unwary. Standby for The Who's next response...
Ha, ha, ha... So true. And fitting.
This is pretty much exactly right. Watching him feed his compulsion is funny.
Post by: TheWho on June 27, 2009, 07:39:52 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Calm dowm Buddy!! RobertBruce is finally starting to crack. I think Ursus should give him TheWho's account back so that he can release some frustration on this board.
Exactly, I dont think he cant fit any more quotes into his posts. He needs his Whooter back.
Post by: Troll Control on June 27, 2009, 07:44:53 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "John Cristy"Why not rename the thread “A cry for help” or “How a program parent stabbed survivors in the back”
I agree that this is what The Who has done. And set his kid up to snuff himself. I wonder why a guy with so many obvious and deep psychological and family problems has this sick desire to obsessively post here as several people for years. And now he wants RB to take the hit for it (ain't working though, Whooter). Just like in real life where his kids and wife bear the brunt of his stupidity and cruelty. Why would a program parent who locked their kid up at SUWS and ASR specifically for the purpose of teaching him "accountability" try to say or do anything to avoid his own accountability?
BTW, I love the fact that the other threads are kept clean by leveraging The Who's obsession to get the last word and avoid responsibility for his actions. We have achieved synergy here, folks. The Who's own mental sickness forbids him from leaving this thread unanswered. This takes up his time and energy. And, in fact, all he does now is watch this thread, day and night, looking to respond. Then he tells others to "get a life," when all he does, quite literally, is read and post to this thread, like a slave to it. I don't even care what he says. I just want to control his actions, which I do every single day, and very effectively, I might add.
You'd think he'd take a break to put flowers on his kid's grave or something, but, no. Instead he spends all of his waking hours responding to this thread. All day and all night; every day and every night. The obsession grips his tiny mind and the compulsion drives his fingers to the keyboard.
Next act: The Who in a one-man act of impersonations and sad compulsions. Break a leg, Who! We're all waiting for the show! ::deadhorse::
Yes, I agree completely. I also like the fact that because he can't control his posting this thread stays at the top so it's harder for him to try to BS the unwary. Standby for The Who's next response...
Ha, ha, ha... So true. And fitting.
I now command The Who to appear and say he is RB! Do it now, Who!
Hilarious. The Who hops right to it for my amusement.
Post by: TheWho on June 27, 2009, 07:50:53 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Calm dowm Buddy!! RobertBruce is finally starting to crack. I think Ursus should give him TheWho's account back so that he can release some frustration on this board.
Exactly, I dont think he cant fit any more quotes into his posts. He needs his Whooter back.
Brucey, wrong again. TheWho was able to fit another another quote in. You seem desperate for attention, why not ask Ursus for TheWho name back?
Post by: Troll Control on June 27, 2009, 07:52:23 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"I like posting in this thread because The Who has such a sick need to avoid accountability and to get the last word that all I have to do is post here and he's tied up for the day, leaving valuable threads un-trolled by this asswipe.
Does anyone else find it funny that a guy who had his kid locked up in a program to learn "accountability for his actions" spends years of his life right here avoiding his own accountability? It's rich. And it's funny.
But it is sad that his kid was just learning from The Who's modeling - i.e. blame others and never take accountability for your own actions - and The Who had him locked up at ASR which damaged the kid's psyche so badly that he killed himself.
All because The Who raised his kid this way by example. It's your fault, Who, that your kid is dead. You can't blame that on RB. Maybe if you were an upright and moral man your kid would have been, too. And he wouldn't be RIP now. Think about that for a while, Whooter.
This really describes the essence of The Who. He is really, really creepy.
How can RB and The Who be the same person when RB has never had a child (he's about a decade too young to even have a teenage kid, BTW) and The Who drove one of his two teens to suicide? Doesn't add up. Of course everyone knows about The Who already, so this is just more flailing. He tends to do this when certain truths about him are exposed, like the latest, his dead son. Why would someone whose child was destroyed by SUWS and ASR be so hell-bent on further abusing survivors here? Two reasons: He's a "tough love" sycophant and he gets paid to troll fornits and lure desperate parents to shitpits for commissions. It's how he earns his living.
Stand by for uninterrupted self-flagellation, brought to you by The Whooter.
:beat:
Ooooohhhhh...OK now. I thought before that The Who was made up by RB because that poster (which turned out to be The Who posting anonymously) kept trying to say that, but it looked like they were just trying to bury the truth. So, anyways, I took the time to read back through this thread and I have to apologize to RB for my earlier remarks. Sorry. I do see now that this whole "RB is The Who" thing is just The Who trolling this thread.
Now that I see what's going on, I just want to ask The Who, seriously, I'm not trying to be a jerk, if your kid killed himself because you put him in one of these places why do you keep trying to make excuses for them? It just seems like you can't see what damage ASR did to your boy.
Post by: Troll Control on June 27, 2009, 07:53:40 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"I like posting in this thread because The Who has such a sick need to avoid accountability and to get the last word that all I have to do is post here and he's tied up for the day, leaving valuable threads un-trolled by this asswipe.
Does anyone else find it funny that a guy who had his kid locked up in a program to learn "accountability for his actions" spends years of his life right here avoiding his own accountability? It's rich. And it's funny.
But it is sad that his kid was just learning from The Who's modeling - i.e. blame others and never take accountability for your own actions - and The Who had him locked up at ASR which damaged the kid's psyche so badly that he killed himself.
All because The Who raised his kid this way by example. It's your fault, Who, that your kid is dead. You can't blame that on RB. Maybe if you were an upright and moral man your kid would have been, too. And he wouldn't be RIP now. Think about that for a while, Whooter.
This really describes the essence of The Who. He is really, really creepy.
How can RB and The Who be the same person when RB has never had a child (he's about a decade too young to even have a teenage kid, BTW) and The Who drove one of his two teens to suicide? Doesn't add up. Of course everyone knows about The Who already, so this is just more flailing. He tends to do this when certain truths about him are exposed, like the latest, his dead son. Why would someone whose child was destroyed by SUWS and ASR be so hell-bent on further abusing survivors here? Two reasons: He's a "tough love" sycophant and he gets paid to troll fornits and lure desperate parents to shitpits for commissions. It's how he earns his living.
Stand by for uninterrupted self-flagellation, brought to you by The Whooter.
:beat:
Ooooohhhhh...OK now. I thought before that The Who was made up by RB because that poster (which turned out to be The Who posting anonymously) kept trying to say that, but it looked like they were just trying to bury the truth. So, anyways, I took the time to read back through this thread and I have to apologize to RB for my earlier remarks. Sorry. I do see now that this whole "RB is The Who" thing is just The Who trolling this thread.
Now that I see what's going on, I just want to ask The Who, seriously, I'm not trying to be a jerk, if your kid killed himself because you put him in one of these places why do you keep trying to make excuses for them? It just seems like you can't see what damage ASR did to your boy.
Sorry, last post was mine, Casual Observer.
Post by: Troll Control on June 27, 2009, 07:57:53 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
QuoteListen to Ervin's wheels spin. Nowhere in the ad does it say Aspen will help these GED'ers "better themselves thru education". That ad isn't for line staff Mike. It's for the residential supervisor. The line staff positions must only require a pulse and a proclivity toward extreme violence. Aspen doesn't want counselors, they want grunts, prison guards.
Just a walk down memory lane....Never did Deborah offer to enlighten us on what qualifications she felt were needed for those various positions. Didnt matter if it were a GED position or doctorate......Just took the opportunity to purge hatred upon others whom she never knew for the sheer satisfaction of hurting someone she didn’t have to face. To me she was the face of fornits back then.
...
Yeah, it's very clear now that The Who has an agenda and his writing is not at all like RB's. The admins also say that The Who is not RB and that The Who is the one trying to make that link. I believed him before, but now I found out he's not truthful at all.
Post by: TheWho on June 27, 2009, 08:03:14 PM
Quote
RobertBruces own words:
"I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho and I are one and the same. I created the character a few years ago as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea. I wanted to give all the anti-program posters an opportunity to showcase everything that's sick and wrong with this industry....."
Original post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=ff5ff360e20aaa3e50f29ffbb59222a8&sid=ff5ff360e20aaa3e50f29ffbb59222a8#p334604)
I guess we can agree that TheWho was abusive, but the question remains as to why you would hide behind this user name and take pot shots at fellow survivors? What was gained by that Bruce?
Post by: TheWho on June 27, 2009, 08:07:44 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2009, 08:32:01 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 27, 2009, 08:33:43 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Remember when I had TheWho claim 60 kids a week were being killed in public schools? Making nonsensical claims about public schools that had no bearing in reality. All the times I had him dismiss or ridicule kids who were abused. I am sorry for that, it was difficult,
It might have been difficult for you but it was insensitive to the rest of us who had to read it and take the brunt of your joke. It is okay to have an argument or make up phoney people but you shouldnt ridicule kids especially those who were abused. You’re a fucked up person for doing that or even thinking that seeing that you came from a program yourself. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=ff5ff360e20aaa3e50f29ffbb59222a8&sid=ff5ff360e20aaa3e50f29ffbb59222a8#p334604)
Post by: Troll Control on June 28, 2009, 08:16:05 AM
I always knew this guy was an a-hole, but really, this is bottom-of-the-barrel type of stuff going on here now. I did notice that it got worse and worse as the night wore on (The Who was up all night posting and I read them this morning), probably indicating some alcohol or substance abuse going on with Whooter. Looks like he may just be living alone now. One kid is dead, the other was taken from him by his wife who left him a couple of years ago over his obsession with the internet. Looks like he's ready for some kind of program himself.
Notice how when the truth is told about him he flys off the handle? Ever since it was revealed his kid killed himself, he seems to be on a bender of alcoholism and just plain meanness.
Parents, this is your referral source laid bare. Do you really want people like this to get their hands on your kid??
Post by: Troll Control on June 28, 2009, 08:18:53 AM
Quote from: "Casual Observer"
Quote from: "TheWho"QuoteListen to Ervin's wheels spin. Nowhere in the ad does it say Aspen will help these GED'ers "better themselves thru education". That ad isn't for line staff Mike. It's for the residential supervisor. The line staff positions must only require a pulse and a proclivity toward extreme violence. Aspen doesn't want counselors, they want grunts, prison guards.
Just a walk down memory lane....Never did Deborah offer to enlighten us on what qualifications she felt were needed for those various positions. Didnt matter if it were a GED position or doctorate......Just took the opportunity to purge hatred upon others whom she never knew for the sheer satisfaction of hurting someone she didn’t have to face. To me she was the face of fornits back then.
...
Yeah, it's very clear now that The Who has an agenda and his writing is not at all like RB's. The admins also say that The Who is not RB and that The Who is the one trying to make that link. I believed him before, but now I found out he's not truthful at all.
Not only does he lie, he's vile and nasty, too. Look at the disgusting language this parent uses. No wonder his family split up.
Post by: Troll Control on June 28, 2009, 08:24:43 AM
Quote from: "The Who"
Relax, don't take it so seriously. People here post anon all the time and no one cares. Why is it that just because I posted something and signed RobertBruce's name to it that everyone gets so mad? I'm not RobertBruce, okay? Feel better now? Ha, ha, ha.
Looks like a confession of identity theft by The Who. Explains a lot of this thread.
Post by: TheWho on June 28, 2009, 08:31:29 AM
Quote from: "Found This Post"
Quote from: "The Who"Relax, don't take it so seriously. People here post anon all the time and no one cares. Why is it that just because I posted something and signed RobertBruce's name to it that everyone gets so mad? I'm not RobertBruce, okay? Feel better now? Ha, ha, ha.
Looks like a confession of identity theft by The Who. Explains a lot of this thread.
Great find!!! Technically he wasnt RobertBruce because RobertBruce was signed in as TheWho at the time so the statement holds true. This further shows they are one in the same. But what I would like to know is why Bruce had TheWho character make fun of survivors? Why would he even think it let alone post it here. Its really sick when you think of it.
Post by: TheWho on June 28, 2009, 08:53:59 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"Remember when I had TheWho claim 60 kids a week were being killed in public schools? Making nonsensical claims about public schools that had no bearing in reality. All the times I had him dismiss or ridicule kids who were abused. I am sorry for that, it was difficult,
It might have been difficult for you but it was insensitive to the rest of us who had to read it and take the brunt of your joke. It is okay to have an argument or make up phoney people but you shouldnt ridicule kids especially those who were abused. You’re a fucked up person for doing that or even thinking that seeing that you came from a program yourself. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=982bbb0d002c411ac88aa428bf11a70b&sid=982bbb0d002c411ac88aa428bf11a70b#p334604)
In all fairness to Bruce its very possible that RobertBruce just doesnt fully understand what it is like to be locked up in one of these places since he was only in HLA for a couple of weeks. This may explain why he had TheWho say all those things. But the ridiculing of abused kids must be something evil in him because no one would do that whether they were in a program or not.
Post by: Troll Control on June 28, 2009, 09:58:43 AM
Quote from: "Found This Post"
Quote from: "The Who"Relax, don't take it so seriously. People here post anon all the time and no one cares. Why is it that just because I posted something and signed RobertBruce's name to it that everyone gets so mad? I'm not RobertBruce, okay? Feel better now? Ha, ha, ha.
Looks like a confession of identity theft by The Who. Explains a lot of this thread.
Good catch. this is The Who's MO.
I also found several posts where he was arguing with RB and their posts were posted at exactly the same times, so RB and The Who cannot possibly be the same person. The Admins also say RB and Who are totally different people. The guy who used to post as The Who was banned for flooding and his account was auctioned off for charity to Ursus. So is the poster who used to post as The Who now trying to say that Ursus and RB are the same? Doesn't add up at all.
The Who is The Who (middle aged drunken program parent from Mass. who lied and said he had a daughter at ASR when it was really a son who killed himself after ASR).
RobertBruce is RobertBruce (a now young-adult who was abused at HLA and fought for its closure).
Ursus is Ursus (a child advocate and charitable donator to Fornits).
The anonymous poster flooding this thread is the poster FKA "The Who" who just posts anon all the time pretending to be various types of people, or even specific people.
Hope that clears it up for everyone! One severely mentally ill guy, FKA "The Who", is the flooder of this thread.
Took a while to get to the bottom of it, but it is very clear if you just read a bit.
Post by: Troll Control on June 28, 2009, 10:02:10 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Found This Post"Quote from: "The Who"Relax, don't take it so seriously. People here post anon all the time and no one cares. Why is it that just because I posted something and signed RobertBruce's name to it that everyone gets so mad? I'm not RobertBruce, okay? Feel better now? Ha, ha, ha.
Looks like a confession of identity theft by The Who. Explains a lot of this thread.
Great find!!!
Thanks! It took a while, but Casual Observer helped me look through the posts.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 28, 2009, 10:11:28 AM
Quote
BTW, I love the fact that the other threads are kept clean by leveraging The Who's obsession to get the last word and avoid responsibility for his actions. We have achieved synergy here, folks. The Who's own mental sickness forbids him from leaving this thread unanswered. This takes up his time and energy. And, in fact, all he does now is watch this thread, day and night, looking to respond. Then he tells others to "get a life," when all he does, quite literally, is read and post to this thread, like a slave to it. I don't even care what he says. I just want to control his actions, which I do every single day, and very effectively, I might add
:seg:
Post by: TheWho on June 28, 2009, 10:25:16 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"Remember when I had TheWho claim 60 kids a week were being killed in public schools? Making nonsensical claims about public schools that had no bearing in reality. All the times I had him dismiss or ridicule kids who were abused. I am sorry for that, it was difficult,
It might have been difficult for you but it was insensitive to the rest of us who had to read it and take the brunt of your joke. It is okay to have an argument or make up phoney people but you shouldnt ridicule kids especially those who were abused. You’re a fucked up person for doing that or even thinking that seeing that you came from a program yourself. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=e344d06f1adbfab8d1a40a84744191c8&sid=e344d06f1adbfab8d1a40a84744191c8#p334604)
A new log-in name maybe called "Whooter" may help Bruce. If you made Whooter more compassionate towards survivors or atleast didnt laugh at their stories you may be able to clear your name. You need to try to distance yourself from TheWho that you created. You are pssing off all those people who spent time in a program and dont give a crap about what your intentions were when posting as "thehwo".
Post by: Troll Control on June 28, 2009, 11:58:15 AM
Quote from: "Casual Observer"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"I like posting in this thread because The Who has such a sick need to avoid accountability and to get the last word that all I have to do is post here and he's tied up for the day, leaving valuable threads un-trolled by this asswipe.
Does anyone else find it funny that a guy who had his kid locked up in a program to learn "accountability for his actions" spends years of his life right here avoiding his own accountability? It's rich. And it's funny.
But it is sad that his kid was just learning from The Who's modeling - i.e. blame others and never take accountability for your own actions - and The Who had him locked up at ASR which damaged the kid's psyche so badly that he killed himself.
All because The Who raised his kid this way by example. It's your fault, Who, that your kid is dead. You can't blame that on RB. Maybe if you were an upright and moral man your kid would have been, too. And he wouldn't be RIP now. Think about that for a while, Whooter.
This really describes the essence of The Who. He is really, really creepy.
How can RB and The Who be the same person when RB has never had a child (he's about a decade too young to even have a teenage kid, BTW) and The Who drove one of his two teens to suicide? Doesn't add up. Of course everyone knows about The Who already, so this is just more flailing. He tends to do this when certain truths about him are exposed, like the latest, his dead son. Why would someone whose child was destroyed by SUWS and ASR be so hell-bent on further abusing survivors here? Two reasons: He's a "tough love" sycophant and he gets paid to troll fornits and lure desperate parents to shitpits for commissions. It's how he earns his living.
Stand by for uninterrupted self-flagellation, brought to you by The Whooter.
:beat:
Ooooohhhhh...OK now. I thought before that The Who was made up by RB because that poster (which turned out to be The Who posting anonymously) kept trying to say that, but it looked like they were just trying to bury the truth. So, anyways, I took the time to read back through this thread and I have to apologize to RB for my earlier remarks. Sorry. I do see now that this whole "RB is The Who" thing is just The Who trolling this thread.
Now that I see what's going on, I just want to ask The Who, seriously, I'm not trying to be a jerk, if your kid killed himself because you put him in one of these places why do you keep trying to make excuses for them? It just seems like you can't see what damage ASR did to your boy.
I'd like to know that answer, too, Casual Observer. I guess, by the implication of your name, that The Who is not even fooling the newest or most 'casual' observers. Obviously, nobody that has been here a while believes him, but it's nice to see that others don't either. If he ropes you into a program, it could be more than just his kid dead.
Post by: Troll Control on June 28, 2009, 12:00:12 PM
Quote
All because The Who raised his kid this way by example. It's your fault, Who, that your kid is dead. You can't blame that on RB.
He tries to though.
Post by: Troll Control on June 28, 2009, 12:02:58 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
QuoteBTW, I love the fact that the other threads are kept clean by leveraging The Who's obsession to get the last word and avoid responsibility for his actions. We have achieved synergy here, folks. The Who's own mental sickness forbids him from leaving this thread unanswered. This takes up his time and energy. And, in fact, all he does now is watch this thread, day and night, looking to respond. Then he tells others to "get a life," when all he does, quite literally, is read and post to this thread, like a slave to it. I don't even care what he says. I just want to control his actions, which I do every single day, and very effectively, I might add
:seg:
Glad you're enjoying watching The Who forfeit his entire weekend in order to troll this thread. I made him do it. In fact, he's going to do it again in just a few minutes here. Because I'm going to make him do it. He can't help himself.
Post by: Froderik on June 28, 2009, 12:30:27 PM
Who, who, who, who?
Who are you?
Who, who, who, who?
Who are you?
Who, who, who, who?
Who are you?
Who, who, who, who?
I woke up in a Soho doorway
A policeman knew my name
He said "You can go sleep at home tonight
If you can get up and walk away"
I staggered back to the underground
And the breeze blew back my hair
I remember throwin' punches around
And preachin' from my chair
Well, who are you? (Who are you? Who, who, who, who?)
I really wanna know (Who are you? Who, who, who, who?)
Tell me, who are you? (Who are you? Who, who, who, who?)
'Cause I really wanna know (Who are you? Who, who, who, who?)
I took the tube back out of town
Back to the Rollin' Pin
I felt a little like a dying clown
With a streak of Rin Tin Tin
I stretched back and I hiccupped
And looked back on my busy day
Eleven hours in the Tin Pan
God, there's got to be another way
Who are you?
Ooh wa ooh wa ooh wa ooh wa ...
Who are you?
Who, who, who, who?
Who are you?
Who, who, who, who?
Who are you?
Who, who, who, who?
Who are you?
Who, who, who, who?
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2009, 01:33:48 PM
Malignant Self Love
It is difficult to recognize a narcissist because he (or she) spends all of his time acting, protecting his ego by presenting to the world a false image of them self. Consequently he becomes a master of deceit. But it is extremely important to be able to recognize people whose behavior is detrimental to their organization's performance
A narcissist is someone who is overtly or subtly arrogant, exhibitionistic, vain, manipulative, and greedy for admiration. Narcissistic rage, character assassination and projection are some of the overt ways in which the narcissist expresses himself Projection in teams is particularly prevalent.
The denial of remorse and gratitude by the narcissist are two of the more subtle ways used to protect an internal sense of grandiosity. An example of a narcissist's ability to be subtle might be when he arrives late for a meeting. Rather than offer a sincere apology, he may blame someone else for keeping him talking, thus externalizing the fault ("It's not my fault") and maintaining his sense of grandiosity.
Despite tending to be exhibitionistic, it is very rare to hear narcissist brag or boast. Instead, he (or she) tends to 'drop' information in the form of an ostensibly ordinary matter-of-fact report, which appears to be intended to elicit attention (positive or negative) without asking for it, in a way meant to induce a sense of distance and inferiority in the recipient of the information; again maintaining his sense of grandiosity.
http://www.recognizenarcissist.html (http://www.recognizenarcissist.html)
Post by: TheWho on June 28, 2009, 01:39:42 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"Remember when I had TheWho claim 60 kids a week were being killed in public schools? Making nonsensical claims about public schools that had no bearing in reality. All the times I had him dismiss or ridicule kids who were abused. I am sorry for that, it was difficult,
It might have been difficult for you but it was insensitive to the rest of us who had to read it and take the brunt of your joke. It is okay to have an argument or make up phoney people but you shouldnt ridicule kids especially those who were abused. You’re a fucked up person for doing that or even thinking that seeing that you came from a program yourself. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=c7a0a94be85e08542d85e7dc80d0f4d0&sid=c7a0a94be85e08542d85e7dc80d0f4d0#p334604)
A new log-in name maybe called "Whooter" may help Bruce. If you made Whooter more compassionate towards survivors or atleast didnt laugh at their stories you may be able to clear your name. You need to try to distance yourself from TheWho that you created. You are pssing off all those people who spent time in a program and dont give a crap about what your intentions were when posting as "thehwo".
Post by: TheWho on June 28, 2009, 01:40:50 PM
Quote
Glad you're enjoying watching The Who forfeit his entire weekend in order to troll this thread. I made him do it. In fact, he's going to do it again in just a few minutes here. Because I'm going to make him do it. He can't help himself.
But Bruce you are TheWho
Post by: Whobot on June 28, 2009, 02:45:10 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2009, 02:47:09 PM
Quote from: "Dr. Sam Vanknin"
COUCH TIME FOR WHO
Malignant Self Love
It is difficult to recognize a narcissist because he (or she) spends all of his time acting, protecting his ego by presenting to the world a false image of them self. Consequently he becomes a master of deceit. But it is extremely important to be able to recognize people whose behavior is detrimental to their organization's performance
A narcissist is someone who is overtly or subtly arrogant, exhibitionistic, vain, manipulative, and greedy for admiration. Narcissistic rage, characterassassination and projection are some of the overt ways in which the narcissist expresses himself Projection in teams is particularly prevalent.
The denial of remorse and gratitude by the narcissist are two of the more subtle ways used to protect an internal sense of grandiosity. An example of a narcissist's ability to be subtle might be when he arrives late for a meeting. Rather than offer a sincere apology, he may blame someone else for keeping him talking, thus externalizing the fault ("It's not my fault") and maintaining his sense of grandiosity.
Despite tending to be exhibitionistic, it is very rare to hear narcissist brag or boast. Instead, he (or she) tends to 'drop' information in the form of an ostensibly ordinary matter-of-fact report, which appears to be intended to elicit attention (positive or negative) without asking for it, in a way meant to induce a sense of distance and inferiority in the recipient of the information; again maintaining his sense of grandiosity.
http://www.recognizenarcissist.html (http://www.recognizenarcissist.html)
Post by: TheWho on June 28, 2009, 05:33:47 PM
Quote from: "Whobot"
How's the family, who?
I already told everyone, I only have dogs...woof,woof. Thats my family.
Post by: Troll Control on June 28, 2009, 05:46:35 PM
Quote from: "Dr. Sam Vanknin"
COUCH TIME FOR WHO
Malignant Self Love
It is difficult to recognize a narcissist because he (or she) spends all of his time acting, protecting his ego by presenting to the world a false image of them self. Consequently he becomes a master of deceit. But it is extremely important to be able to recognize people whose behavior is detrimental to their organization's performance
A narcissist is someone who is overtly or subtly arrogant, exhibitionistic, vain, manipulative, and greedy for admiration. Narcissistic rage, character assassination and projection are some of the overt ways in which the narcissist expresses himself Projection in teams is particularly prevalent.
The denial of remorse and gratitude by the narcissist are two of the more subtle ways used to protect an internal sense of grandiosity. An example of a narcissist's ability to be subtle might be when he arrives late for a meeting. Rather than offer a sincere apology, he may blame someone else for keeping him talking, thus externalizing the fault ("It's not my fault") and maintaining his sense of grandiosity.
Despite tending to be exhibitionistic, it is very rare to hear narcissist brag or boast. Instead, he (or she) tends to 'drop' information in the form of an ostensibly ordinary matter-of-fact report, which appears to be intended to elicit attention (positive or negative) without asking for it, in a way meant to induce a sense of distance and inferiority in the recipient of the information; again maintaining his sense of grandiosity.
http://www.recognizenarcissist.html (http://www.recognizenarcissist.html)
Yes, this is right on in describing The Who. Thanks!
Post by: Troll Control on June 28, 2009, 05:48:36 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Whobot"How's the family, who?
I already told everyone, I only have dogs...woof,woof. Thats my family.
Yes, one kid is dead and you're wife took the other one when she left. So technically it is true that all you have left is dogs. Sad for you.
Post by: Troll Control on June 28, 2009, 05:50:32 PM
Quote from: "Casual Observer"
Wow, The Who has sunk to new levels of low. Now he's accusing abuse survivors of 'anally raping dogs.' Remember, people, this is an adult man (old enough to have had two teenagers, one is now dead) who advocates programs. He's also of the same mentality as the people who work in programs. Shame, humiliation and abuse are the tools of his trade.
I always knew this guy was an a-hole, but really, this is bottom-of-the-barrel type of stuff going on here now. I did notice that it got worse and worse as the night wore on (The Who was up all night posting and I read them this morning), probably indicating some alcohol or substance abuse going on with Whooter. Looks like he may just be living alone now. One kid is dead, the other was taken from him by his wife who left him a couple of years ago over his obsession with the internet. Looks like he's ready for some kind of program himself.
Notice how when the truth is told about him he flys off the handle? Ever since it was revealed his kid killed himself, he seems to be on a bender of alcoholism and just plain meanness.
Parents, this is your referral source laid bare. Do you really want people like this to get their hands on your kid??
This is enough to turn my stomach. Thanks, Casual Observer, for the heads up.
Post by: TheWho on June 28, 2009, 06:47:31 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"Remember when I had TheWho claim 60 kids a week were being killed in public schools? Making nonsensical claims about public schools that had no bearing in reality. All the times I had him dismiss or ridicule kids who were abused. I am sorry for that, it was difficult,
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=589478b2054e8a84100f226f3c702269&sid=589478b2054e8a84100f226f3c702269#p334604)
Someone mentioned a new log-in name. This may also help with the narcissisism that you seem to have. If you made a new one called "Whooter" this may help you to direct attention away from yourself (as RobertBruce) and you could work on a new identity which doesent require so much attention. All these posts as RobertBruce, TheWho and guest cannot be healthy for you.
Goodluck with your transition Bruce.
Post by: Troll Control on June 28, 2009, 07:38:18 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
QuoteBTW, I love the fact that the other threads are kept clean by leveraging The Who's obsession to get the last word and avoid responsibility for his actions. We have achieved synergy here, folks. The Who's own mental sickness forbids him from leaving this thread unanswered. This takes up his time and energy. And, in fact, all he does now is watch this thread, day and night, looking to respond. Then he tells others to "get a life," when all he does, quite literally, is read and post to this thread, like a slave to it. I don't even care what he says. I just want to control his actions, which I do every single day, and very effectively, I might add
:seg:
I control The Who like I have a remote for him. He's so weak of character that he can't control his urges to post again and again. I order you, Who: Show up right now and pretend that you and RB are the same person. Do it now. :whip:
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2009, 07:42:20 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 28, 2009, 07:43:57 PM
Quote from: "Well look at that!"
Quote from: "Ruck Maker"Quote from: "psy"-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Yoga Mat
Date: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:18 pm
From: TheWho (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2760)
To: AntigenQuote from: "TheWho"(Sniveling dreck omitted. He's announcing his retirement and the auctioning of his outpost of misinformation. TheWho is "I" and not "we" in his PM's.)
...
Sent September 23, and then this announcement dated 9/25 appears on StragglingTurds 9/26:
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Aspen Education Group
Cerritos, CA
Mike Ervin Returns to Aspen Education Group
Contact:
Sue Crowell
Sr. Vice President
Outdoor Division
828-684-8667
[email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]) or 828-684-2168.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Looks like theWho/Mike Ervin finally got a new gig working for his Aspenic masters. No more days spent sitting on your ass trolling Fornits, watching porn and eating Cheetos.
See you around, orange dick.
::OMG::
:rasta: :rasta: :hug: :D
Anyone called him yet??
Hi, Mike! :moon: Aspen must be "cutting back." Mike's not very busy these days. Well, at work anyways. Lulz.
Post by: Troll Control on June 28, 2009, 07:46:47 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"QuoteBTW, I love the fact that the other threads are kept clean by leveraging The Who's obsession to get the last word and avoid responsibility for his actions. We have achieved synergy here, folks. The Who's own mental sickness forbids him from leaving this thread unanswered. This takes up his time and energy. And, in fact, all he does now is watch this thread, day and night, looking to respond. Then he tells others to "get a life," when all he does, quite literally, is read and post to this thread, like a slave to it. I don't even care what he says. I just want to control his actions, which I do every single day, and very effectively, I might add
:seg:
I control The Who like I have a remote for him. He's so weak of character that he can't control his urges to post again and again. I order you, Who: Show up right now and pretend that you and RB are the same person. Do it now. :whip:
Ha, ha, ha. Easy Brucie. I'm here.
Post by: Troll Control on June 28, 2009, 07:50:46 PM
The Who has posted 900 times in this thread alone, and that's just under his username. He's posted at least double that anonymously. Gives ya an idea about how pathetic Mikey is, doesn't it? No wonder The Who was all bent out of shape when Lone Star murdered that kid. He was running the place! Lulz.
Post by: TheWho on June 28, 2009, 08:19:48 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2760
The Who has posted 900 times in this thread alone, and that's just under his username. He's posted at least double that anonymously. Gives ya an idea about how pathetic Mikey is, doesn't it? No wonder The Who was all bent out of shape when Lone Star murdered that kid. He was running the place! Lulz.
Now add that to the number of times he was logged in as RobertBruce... that is really pathetic
Post by: TheWho on June 28, 2009, 09:09:56 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2009, 10:59:00 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 28, 2009, 11:08:15 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Everyone keeps saying thewho has a kid who killed himself? Is there any truth to this?
I dont think anyone really knows. RobertBruce made the whole story up as part of his TheWho fantasy. Bruce doesnt have kids so he created a character who had kids, placed them in a program and then killed themselves or something close to that. Pretty neat idea, most people hated this guy who, but I think it was all just made up.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2009, 12:48:13 AM
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2009, 12:57:40 AM
Quote from: "OPIE"
I'm the original poster of this thread.
FUCK YOU!
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 06:48:29 AM
Quote from: "OPIE"
I'm the original poster of this thread. Can I auction off my OP right to move this thread with the proceeds going to Fornits? You could put the thread in a new forum the winner gets to name.
I suggest to rename it "RobertBruce" (since it is mostly about him) and move the thread to the HLA forum.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 09:27:12 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Everyone keeps saying thewho has a kid who killed himself? Is there any truth to this?
Yes, there is. One way you can tell for sure is that as soon as you hit a nerver with The Who he trolls relentlessly to try to shift the focus. In this case he's trying to bury the whole discussion of his dead kid by claiming he and robertBruce are the same person, which they obviously are not.
Bruce is a twenty-something and The Who is a reject child of the '60's. That's right, he couldn't even find acceptance in hippie-dom. when you're rejected even by the hippies (and you're not a narc) you've got no redeeming qualities.
Anyway, just go back and read The Who's posts and you'll see all of the things he posted about when he was younger that RB would not even have on his radar, much less be able to describe accurately.
The ket here is that as soon as it was revealed that The Who's daughter was actually a son and that the son offed himself, that's when The Who went to high-power trolling of this thread and now he is so obsessed with 'burying the lead' that all he does, day and night, is post in this thread.
You can see my posts as 'Casual Observer' earlier in the thread. I did my homework and read a lot of the thread and I now seeThe Who lies about everything, especially RB, whom he loves to try to traumatize by bringing up the abuse he suffered at HLA (which RB fought hard to shut down and The Who lobbied to keep it open, BTW).
This 'Casual Observer' learned the truth about The Who and how he shills for the Aspen group.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 09:33:57 AM
Had to dig for it, but here's The Who admitting his kid killed himself, but being "unsure of the root cause." Hope this helps answer some questions.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 09:35:03 AM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Just because my kid commited suicide how would any of you know if it was due to depression, a girlfriend who broke it off, an accident? How do you attribute it to a specific cause? The theories that I see being posted have little or no bearing because no note was left so no one knows what the cause was. How do we know the program didn’t extend his life an extra few years before he finally took his life? Without the program he might have died years earlier
Had to dig for it, but here's The Who admitting his kid killed himself, but being "unsure of the root cause." Hope this helps answer some questions.[/quote]
Good find!
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2009, 10:00:56 AM
Quote from: "on behalf of fornits"
Quote from: "OPIE"I'm the original poster of this thread.
FUCK YOU!
It's a fair cop. Sorry. It was never my intention to have this run on for 248 + pages of industry whore psychodrama. It's too much and now Robert Bruce has (unintentionally) given hoo hoo something to beat into the ground.
What can I as the OP do? Can I change the name of the thread to "don't read this shit"?
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 10:03:32 AM
Quote from: "RobertBruce/TheWho"
Quote from: "RobertBruce/TheWho"Just because my kid commited suicide how would any of you know if it was due to depression, a girlfriend who broke it off, an accident? How do you attribute it to a specific cause? The theories that I see being posted have little or no bearing because no note was left so no one knows what the cause was. How do we know the program didn’t extend his life an extra few years before he finally took his life? Without the program he might have died years earlier
Had to dig for it, but here is where I had The Who admitting his kid killed himself, but being "unsure of the root cause." Hope this helps answer some questions.
Good find!
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 10:23:46 AM
Quote from: "OPIE"
Quote from: "on behalf of fornits"Quote from: "OPIE"I'm the original poster of this thread.
FUCK YOU!
It's a fair cop. Sorry. It was never my intention to have this run on for 248 + pages of industry whore psychodrama. It's too much and now Robert Bruce has (unintentionally) given hoo hoo something to beat into the ground.
What can I as the OP do? Can I change the name of the thread to "don't read this shit"?
Look, dude. This guy ain't gonna go away. SUWS/ASR drove his kid to suicide and he still collects referral fees for these shitholes. Best thing you can do is post here a couple of times a day (like about ten others do) and force him to spend all of his waking hours trying to deflect from the conversation here instead of other threads. Just look at the last week. He's not had time to troll other threads because he must compulsively "check' this thread and "rebut" the information here (largely by posing as 'outsiders' claiming RB is The Who, which is obviously a lie). Keep him tied up here. I assure you, his massive ego will not allow your posts to go unsanswered for more than a few minutes. I have The Who on lo-jack, dude.
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 10:38:21 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"Remember when I had TheWho claim 60 kids a week were being killed in public schools? Making nonsensical claims about public schools that had no bearing in reality. All the times I had him dismiss or ridicule kids who were abused. I am sorry for that, it was difficult,
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=562b91d5a07df06b8b6248923efb99b9&sid=562b91d5a07df06b8b6248923efb99b9#p334604)
Someone mentioned a new log-in name. This may also help with the narcissisism that you seem to have. If you made a new one called "Whooter" this may help you to direct attention away from yourself (as RobertBruce) and you could work on a new identity which doesent require so much attention. All these posts as RobertBruce, TheWho and guest cannot be healthy for you.
Goodluck with your transition Bruce.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 10:53:27 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "OPIE"Quote from: "on behalf of fornits"Quote from: "OPIE"I'm the original poster of this thread.
FUCK YOU!
It's a fair cop. Sorry. It was never my intention to have this run on for 248 + pages of industry whore psychodrama. It's too much and now Robert Bruce has (unintentionally) given hoo hoo something to beat into the ground.
What can I as the OP do? Can I change the name of the thread to "don't read this shit"?
Look, dude. This guy ain't gonna go away. SUWS/ASR drove his kid to suicide and he still collects referral fees for these shitholes. Best thing you can do is post here a couple of times a day (like about ten others do) and force him to spend all of his waking hours trying to deflect from the conversation here instead of other threads. Just look at the last week. He's not had time to troll other threads because he must compulsively "check' this thread and "rebut" the information here (largely by posing as 'outsiders' claiming RB is The Who, which is obviously a lie). Keep him tied up here. I assure you, his massive ego will not allow your posts to go unsanswered for more than a few minutes. I have The Who on lo-jack, dude.
See? I told ya so. I have him under such firm control he can't last more than ten minutes without checking and posting. This is why his wife left him and he has nothing left, because she took the live kid with her! Now his trolling is unrestrained. Remember when he took a 'hiatus' from posting? He did that because his wife was going to leave him if he didn't stop posting all day every day and all night every night and go to therapy for his compulsion. Unfortunately, after a year of therapy he went right back to this nonsense and his wife took the kid and the house, forcing The Who to get an apartment where he now sits and posts all day and night, alone.
Next Who post: 5 minutes.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 10:57:23 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TheWho"Just because my kid commited suicide how would any of you know if it was due to depression, a girlfriend who broke it off, an accident? How do you attribute it to a specific cause? The theories that I see being posted have little or no bearing because no note was left so no one knows what the cause was. How do we know the program didn’t extend his life an extra few years before he finally took his life? Without the program he might have died years earlier
Had to dig for it, but here's The Who admitting his kid killed himself, but being "unsure of the root cause." Hope this helps answer some questions.
Good find![/quote]
Notice how The Who changed the quote attribution when he re-posted this. Too bad the original post was quote-trained already. The Who gets mad when he can't revise his posts because they were quote-trained immediately. I always make sure I quote the original post right away so when he tries to edit it he just looks more stupid (which is hard to do!).
Too late, Whooter. Caught in another web of lies.
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 11:27:45 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "RobertBruce/TheWho"Quote from: "RobertBruce/TheWho"Just because my kid commited suicide how would any of you know if it was due to depression, a girlfriend who broke it off, an accident? How do you attribute it to a specific cause? The theories that I see being posted have little or no bearing because no note was left so no one knows what the cause was. How do we know the program didn’t extend his life an extra few years before he finally took his life? Without the program he might have died years earlier
Had to dig for it, but here's The Who admitting his kid killed himself, but being "unsure of the root cause." Hope this helps answer some questions.
Notice how The Who changed the quote attribution when he re-posted this. Too bad the original post was quote-trained already. The Who gets mad when he can't revise his posts because they were quote-trained immediately. I always make sure I quote the original post right away so when he tries to edit it he just looks more stupid (which is hard to do!).
Too late, Whooter. Caught in another web of lies.
Hey, Bruce, if you think this who guy is lying why dont you provide a link to the original post?
Oh no!! TheWho must RobertBruce they both have the same MO!!!!
Post by: RobertBruce on June 29, 2009, 11:30:51 AM
What do you think Cindy? Ready for all your secrets to come to light?
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 11:54:29 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "OPIE"Quote from: "on behalf of fornits"Quote from: "OPIE"I'm the original poster of this thread.
FUCK YOU!
It's a fair cop. Sorry. It was never my intention to have this run on for 248 + pages of industry whore psychodrama. It's too much and now Robert Bruce has (unintentionally) given hoo hoo something to beat into the ground.
What can I as the OP do? Can I change the name of the thread to "don't read this shit"?
Look, dude. This guy ain't gonna go away. SUWS/ASR drove his kid to suicide and he still collects referral fees for these shitholes. Best thing you can do is post here a couple of times a day (like about ten others do) and force him to spend all of his waking hours trying to deflect from the conversation here instead of other threads. Just look at the last week. He's not had time to troll other threads because he must compulsively "check' this thread and "rebut" the information here (largely by posing as 'outsiders' claiming RB is The Who, which is obviously a lie). Keep him tied up here. I assure you, his massive ego will not allow your posts to go unsanswered for more than a few minutes. I have The Who on lo-jack, dude.
See? I told ya so. I have him under such firm control he can't last more than ten minutes without checking and posting. This is why his wife left him and he has nothing left, because she took the live kid with her! Now his trolling is unrestrained. Remember when he took a 'hiatus' from posting? He did that because his wife was going to leave him if he didn't stop posting all day every day and all night every night and go to therapy for his compulsion. Unfortunately, after a year of therapy he went right back to this nonsense and his wife took the kid and the house, forcing The Who to get an apartment where he now sits and posts all day and night, alone.
Next Who post: 5 minutes.
Sadly, it seems this is true. I was a Who supporter before, but now I can see he's not what he represented. I just checked the original posts and the quotes are correct. The Who went and changed the attribution again. Not good.
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 11:57:42 AM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Psy, maybe you could talk to Ginger about something that was done once with Shh on the HLA thread. She played the same games, carrying on conversations with herself, pretending to be mulitple posters et cet. Ginger gave Deborah permission to automatically assign Shh a username, even when she posted as a guest.
What do you think Cindy? Ready for all your secrets to come to light?
Does that mean you cannot find the link? So you just made it up yourself just like you made up TheWho? I think before we do that we combine TheWho and RobertBruces posts under one name.
Bruce, why cant you just let this thread die a natural death? You sold off TheWho name to Ursus now just let it go already!! We know what and who you are and you will never repair the damage you have done to us and to yourself.......
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 12:05:36 PM
Somebody's in for even more embarrassment, if that's possible. :cheers:
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 12:09:24 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
I think before we do that we combine TheWho and RobertBruces posts under one name.
I bet you'd like to see that happen first! But first let's link all of The Who's anonymous posts to his ID so we can see the dozens of people he has posed as first. Admins have already declared there's no link whatsoever between RB's account and The Who's account, so that's a non-starter. Since The (anon) Who already said his posts could be linked up, let's have a go at it and see what we see when we start turning over some rocks.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 29, 2009, 12:15:11 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 12:34:33 PM
Quote
Quote from: "RobertBruce"Remember when I had (TheWho) claim 60 kids a week were being killed in public schools? Making nonsensical claims about public schools that had no bearing in reality. All the times I had him dismiss or ridicule kids who were abused. I am sorry for that, it was difficult,
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=49ca4aced909ff4571e09c8e5d8f6d02&sid=49ca4aced909ff4571e09c8e5d8f6d02#p334604)
Notice the "link" to what RobertBruce says about being TheWho and making abusive posts towards survivors. These were said under RobertBruces user name. No one else could have written that.
Personally I think all the other guest posts are an attempt , by Bruce,to cover-up or divert attention away from the post he made about abusing survivors.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 29, 2009, 12:35:30 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 12:41:31 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 12:45:21 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
QuoteQuote from: "TheWho"Remember when I claimed 60 kids a week were being killed in public schools? Making nonsensical claims about public schools that had no bearing in reality. All the times I dismissed or ridiculed kids who were abused. I am sorry for that, it was difficult,
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=49ca4aced909ff4571e09c8e5d8f6d02#p334604)
Notice the "link" about TheWho making abusive posts towards survivors. These were said under TheWho's user name. No one else could have written that.
Personally I think all the other guest posts are an attempt , by The Who,to cover-up or divert attention away from the post he made about abusing survivors.
I agree with this post. And The Who should stop posing as me.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 12:51:20 PM
Quote from: "Casual Observer"
Quote from: "Guest"QuoteQuote from: "TheWho"Remember when I claimed 60 kids a week were being killed in public schools? Making nonsensical claims about public schools that had no bearing in reality. All the times I dismissed or ridiculed kids who were abused. I am sorry for that, it was difficult,
[http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3705#p335073]Original Post[/url]
Notice the "link" about TheWho making abusive posts towards survivors. These were said under TheWho's user name. No one else could have written that.
Personally I think all the other guest posts are an attempt , by The Who,to cover-up or divert attention away from the post he made about abusing survivors.
I agree with this post. And The Who should stop posing as me.
The "link" goes right to The Who admitting his son killed himself. I think The Who made little mistake. Instead of deleting the post admitting his kid killed himself, he linked to it by accident. Make sure to quote-train this for posterity!
Post by: RobertBruce on June 29, 2009, 12:53:45 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 12:56:06 PM
Quote from: "Casual Observer"
Above post was not made by me, Casual Observer. The Who is now impersonating me, too! Why would he try to impersonate me? I have nothing to do with his pissing match with Robert.
Not a problem I always click on the link to verify, like everyone else, because as we have all witnessed the quotes can be tampered with.
Nice try though.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 12:56:54 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Casual Observer"Quote from: "Guest"QuoteQuote from: "TheWho"Remember when I claimed 60 kids a week were being killed in public schools? Making nonsensical claims about public schools that had no bearing in reality. All the times I dismissed or ridiculed kids who were abused. I am sorry for that, it was difficult,
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3705#p335073)
Notice the "link" about TheWho making abusive posts towards survivors. These were said under TheWho's user name. No one else could have written that.
Personally I think all the other guest posts are an attempt , by The Who,to cover-up or divert attention away from the post he made about abusing survivors.
I agree with this post. And The Who should stop posing as me.
The "link" goes right to The Who admitting his son killed himself. I think The Who made little mistake. Instead of deleting the post admitting his kid killed himself, he linked to it by accident. Make sure to quote-train this for posterity!
I see what you mean! Ha, ha, ha!
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 01:01:44 PM
Thanks for that domonstration!!
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 01:02:10 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Casual Observer"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "TheWho"Remember when I claimed 60 kids a week were being killed in public schools? Making nonsensical claims about public schools that had no bearing in reality. All the times I dismissed or ridiculed kids who were abused. I am sorry for that, it was difficult,
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3705#p335073)
Notice the "link" about TheWho making abusive posts towards survivors. These were said under TheWho's user name. No one else could have written that.
I agree with this post. And The Who should stop posing as me.
The "link" goes right to The Who admitting his son killed himself. I think The Who made little mistake. Instead of deleting the post admitting his kid killed himself, he linked to it by accident. Make sure to quote-train this for posterity!
I see what you mean! Ha, ha, ha!
Exactly. That's why I double-checked this quote that clearly shows The Who admitted his kid's suicide. Whoever this other poster is (the one trying to impersonate Casual Observer) has altered the link. The one in this post is correct, though.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 01:06:14 PM
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3705#p335073)[/quote]
Me, too. I checked the link and it's accurate. I wonder why The Who states openly that his child committed suicide and then try to deny it? Why would someone put all of their personal information like that out there unless they were drinking or just in a bad way mentally? The Who seems to have some real issues.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 01:10:40 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Remember when I claimed 60 kids a week were being killed in public schools? Making nonsensical claims about public schools that had no bearing in reality. All the times I dismissed or ridiculed kids who were abused. I am sorry for that, it was difficult.
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3705#p335073)
Quote from: "guest"
Me, too. I checked the link and it's accurate. I wonder why The Who states openly that his child committed suicide and then try to deny it? Why would someone put all of their personal information like that out there unless they were drinking or just in a bad way mentally? The Who seems to have some real issues.
It seems so... I take back what I said before. This is the accurate link. And don't start impersonating me, Who!
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 01:14:03 PM
You will notice this goes back to an "original post":
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=7272e0837c777ef05f37e372b3ae1aa5&sid=7272e0837c777ef05f37e372b3ae1aa5#p334604)
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2009, 01:16:21 PM
I’ve reached my saturation point for this self flagellating performance art.
I no longer give a damn what makes something wound so tightly tick.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 01:18:24 PM
Quote from: "JohnRedmond"
Quote from: "TheWho"Remember when I claimed 60 kids a week were being killed in public schools? Making nonsensical claims about public schools that had no bearing in reality. All the times I dismissed or ridiculed kids who were abused. I am sorry for that, it was difficult.
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3705#p335073)Quote from: "guest"Me, too. I checked the link and it's accurate. I wonder why The Who states openly that his child committed suicide and then try to deny it? Why would someone put all of their personal information like that out there unless they were drinking or just in a bad way mentally? The Who seems to have some real issues.
It seems so... I take back what I said before. This is the accurate link. And don't start impersonating me, Who!
Yes, this is pretty disturbing, John. Looks like The Who tried to go back and alter the post, but this was quote-trained too quickly.
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 01:22:21 PM
Quote from: "Who’s on 1st what’s on 2nd ."
Thank you. I’m bored and so over this.
I’ve reached my saturation point for this self flagellating performance art.
I no longer give a damn what makes something wound so tightly tick.
Finally.... Thank you!!!
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 01:25:27 PM
Quote from: "The Who"
I wouldn't call what happened to my daughter a takedown. Her counselors called them interventions, but I personally refer to it as therapy. You don't know how much of a troubled teen my daughter was. I wasn't going to pay $200 an hour for her to manipulate a therapist. I needed real action and someone to stand up to her.
...
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3390#p315502)
Well, this is an original post. And The Who thinks it's funny that his 'daughter' (actually a now dead son) was the victim of vicious takedowns and makes jokes about it. Dude, that's f-ed up.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 01:32:59 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "aghast."Why do I keep getting hit with the anti-gay subliminal messages on fornits? The first thing I see when I get to fornits are people checking off Fruitcake ,then anal probe, then “Don’t be an idiot”. Is this designed to send the message that all gays are idiots? I don’t think this is right and should be stopped.
Many posters think there is something wrong with trying to help your homosexual child come to their senses. They don't realize as parents we are only helping them to be normal before society and the eyes of god. There are many helpful programs that will help children realize their mistaken choice to be with he same sex, absolve them of their sins and convince them to reconsider their sexual identity.
...
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3300#p315256)
Damn, Who. That's fucking HARSH, man!
Looks like there's lots of "Original Posts" by The Who. Scary.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 29, 2009, 02:00:17 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2009, 02:29:01 PM
Finding fornits.com?...............................Free!
Spending a lifetime obsessed with a fictitious internet troll? PRICELESS!
:roflmao:
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 02:43:20 PM
Quote from: "JohnRedmond"
Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "aghast."Why do I keep getting hit with the anti-gay subliminal messages on fornits? The first thing I see when I get to fornits are people checking off Fruitcake ,then anal probe, then “Don’t be an idiot”. Is this designed to send the message that all gays are idiots? I don’t think this is right and should be stopped.
Many posters think there is something wrong with trying to help your homosexual child come to their senses. They don't realize as parents we are only helping them to be normal before society and the eyes of god. There are many helpful programs that will help children realize their mistaken choice to be with he same sex, absolve them of their sins and convince them to reconsider their sexual identity.
...
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3300#p315256)
Damn, Who. That's fucking HARSH, man!
Looks like there's lots of "Original Posts" by The Who. Scary.
The troll isn't ficticious. The Who is the troll. What's ficticious is his story of a 'daughter' that 'loved' SUWS and ASR. What's not fiction is that The Who spent upwards of $100K on SUWS and ASR and his son killed himself after the program and The Who still prostitutes for ASR and SUWS. :waaaa:
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 02:47:16 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
A central theme which became dominant today was “takedowns”. I found this interesting because we are seeing less and less of these used, at least in the therapeutic portion of the industry (TBS’s). Most of these types of kids, that would act out to the point of needing restraint, are not being accepted into the better programs today. Schools like ASR are scrambling to find open beds, often have a long waiting list and are not accepting kids who have any history of violence, use of knives etc. Many of the products (models) being developed and marketed today cater to kids who are heading for college and are in need of a little help to get thru a rough patch.
A good example was the show “Brat Camp”. They struggled week to week to find enough footage to keep the Jerry Springer mentality audience interested and even failed at that.
Bottom line is if your kid acts out to the point where they need restrain, they run away, are physically or verbally abusive towards staff then the schools don’t want them and they cut them loose back to their families or recommend other residential treatment options.
...
Don't you mean "cut them down" and send them "back to their families in a body bag"? Isn't this your experience?
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 03:16:11 PM
Quote
RobertBruces own words:
"I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho and I are one and the same. I created the character a few years ago as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea. I wanted to give all the anti-program posters an opportunity to showcase everything that's sick and wrong with this industry....."
Original post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=7e73d429140b93808463a6413c2a0243&sid=7e73d429140b93808463a6413c2a0243#p334604)
Hmmmmmm...... Interesting.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 03:23:15 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TheWho"A central theme which became dominant today was “takedowns”. I found this interesting because we are seeing less and less of these used, at least in the therapeutic portion of the industry (TBS’s). Most of these types of kids, that would act out to the point of needing restraint, are not being accepted into the better programs today. Schools like ASR are scrambling to find open beds, often have a long waiting list and are not accepting kids who have any history of violence, use of knives etc. Many of the products (models) being developed and marketed today cater to kids who are heading for college and are in need of a little help to get thru a rough patch.
A good example was the show “Brat Camp”. They struggled week to week to find enough footage to keep the Jerry Springer mentality audience interested and even failed at that.
Bottom line is if your kid acts out to the point where they need restrain, they run away, are physically or verbally abusive towards staff then the schools don’t want them and they cut them loose back to their families or recommend other residential treatment options.
...
Don't you mean "cut them down" and send them "back to their families in a body bag"? Isn't this your experience?
Not nearly as interesting as this developing storyline. Why would The WHo keep shilling for this industry that killed his child? That's the big question here.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 03:26:26 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "The Who"I wouldn't call what happened to my daughter a takedown. Her counselors called them interventions, but I personally refer to it as therapy. You don't know how much of a troubled teen my daughter was. I wasn't going to pay $200 an hour for her to manipulate a therapist. I needed real action and someone to stand up to her.
...
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3390#p315502)
Well, this is an original post. And The Who thinks it's funny that his 'daughter' (actually a now dead son) was the victim of vicious takedowns and makes jokes about it. Dude, that's f-ed up.
This original post is more on topic. It was written by The Who, the main focus of this thread.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2009, 03:29:04 PM
Do you maggots understand that?
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 03:41:18 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2009, 03:45:54 PM
Quote from: Guest
This is the only way to keep him from rampantly trolling the important things you speak of. He's kept here doing busywork for me. OK?
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Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 05:16:17 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TheWho"A central theme which became dominant today was “takedowns”. I found this interesting because we are seeing less and less of these used, at least in the therapeutic portion of the industry (TBS’s). Most of these types of kids, that would act out to the point of needing restraint, are not being accepted into the better programs today. Schools like ASR are scrambling to find open beds, often have a long waiting list and are not accepting kids who have any history of violence, use of knives etc. Many of the products (models) being developed and marketed today cater to kids who are heading for college and are in need of a little help to get thru a rough patch.
A good example was the show “Brat Camp”. They struggled week to week to find enough footage to keep the Jerry Springer mentality audience interested and even failed at that.
Bottom line is if your kid acts out to the point where they need restrain, they run away, are physically or verbally abusive towards staff then the schools don’t want them and they cut them loose back to their families or recommend other residential treatment options.
...
Don't you mean "cut them down" and send them "back to their families in a body bag"? Isn't this your experience?
I'd like to know the answer to this as well. As a parent who has been contacted several times by The Who via PM and email asking me to consider SUWS and/or ASR for my child, this thread is pretty disturbing. I think I'll have to get my advice from some other people here rather than The Who. He has been, let's say, less than honest in what he's told me. First he said he had a daughter and now I find out he actually doesn't have a daughter. Then he said SUWS and ASR were "very beneficial" for his daughter. Not only doesn't he have a daughter, his son killed himself after ASR. If he had been honest with me from the start I would have not wasted my time working with him for a placement. This is downright wrong.
I'm going to call both SUWS and ASR to let them know what their marketing team is doing here. It's immoral.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 29, 2009, 05:19:21 PM
Cost to HLA due to active campaign for regulation and lawsuit........$1,000,000.00 +
Exposing industry apologist, moron, and child abuse advocate, all while embarrassing and shaming him in a hilarious manner several times a day........Free
Continual exposure of how dangerous this industry is, and constantly eroding the business of these places while saving kids lives........priceless.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 05:20:25 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "The Who"I wouldn't call what happened to my daughter a takedown. Her counselors called them interventions, but I personally refer to it as therapy. You don't know how much of a troubled teen my daughter was. I wasn't going to pay $200 an hour for her to manipulate a therapist. I needed real action and someone to stand up to her.
...
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3390#p315502)
Well, this is an original post. And The Who thinks it's funny that his 'daughter' (actually a now dead son) was the victim of vicious takedowns and makes jokes about it. Dude, that's f-ed up.
This original post is more on topic. It was written by The Who, the main focus of this thread.
I definitely agree with the previous post. Once I saw this, I realized this person could not help me and my family. What we really need is an honest broker and The Who blew it with this nonsense and treating abused children like they are the criminals here. Boy, have my eyes been opened!
Post by: Ursus on June 29, 2009, 05:21:37 PM
Lie To Me (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNMlD4ytkaE)
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 05:26:58 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
QuoteRobertBruces own words:
"I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho and I are one and the same. I created the character a few years ago as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea. I wanted to give all the anti-program posters an opportunity to showcase everything that's sick and wrong with this industry....."
Original post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3390#p315502)
Hmmmmmm...... Interesting.
Yes this IS very interesting, especially the supposed poster's name "RobertBruces" - it appears that The Who created a username called "RobertBruces" to try to trick readers that it is "RobertBruce" posting, but I can see that "RobertBruces" is just another user account of The Who. Pathetic, Whootie.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 05:33:59 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Who lies."Who why are you still posting on Fornits when you gave your word you would stop?
Answer the question please.
This is not something I am proud of nor like to discuss.
I agreed to stop posting based on certain events/circumstances which I am not able to speak openly here. I realized, after the fact,that false information was provided as a catalyst to precipitate my leaving.
I returned at great risk to my personal credability as a regular poster here on fornits, but felt it was the right thing to do in light of the heavily one-sided discussions.
...
i.e. your kid committed suicide and you took a job with aspen, the people who 'precipitated' his death.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 05:48:02 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: ""Guest""This is NOT FUNNY, TheWho! What is WRONG with you?Quote from: ""Guest""Here's another Sleazy Response from TheWho about a sexual abuse victim:Quote from: "TheWho"
Ha, Ha, Ha............. Sometimes this is too funny! You people will say anything to get attention or to manipulate... Ha, Ha, Ha... Well, you know, sometimes a kid getting anally gang-raped is the best way to deal with immaturity! You have to grow up some time.......Ha, Ha, Ha
This guy is SICK!
this is beyond nasty!!! thewho has some real problems.
The Who's Anal Rape Fantasizing Tour (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=2610#p262336)
Seriously, Who, how can you even JOKE about the anal rape of a child? I guess this line of reasoning is what led you to say RB "anally rapes dogs." I'm beginning to see a pattern here. Was your son sexually abused like this at ASR before he hung himself?
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 05:52:32 PM
Quote
Quote from: "Guest"QuoteRobertBruces own words:
"I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho and I are one and the same. I created the character a few years ago as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea. I wanted to give all the anti-program posters an opportunity to showcase everything that's sick and wrong with this industry....."
Original post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=a333c7ee4f94acde9d515188e31aba37&sid=a333c7ee4f94acde9d515188e31aba37#p334604)
Hmmmmmm...... Interesting.
Yes this IS very interesting, especially the supposed poster's name "RobertBruces" - it appears that The Who created a username called "RobertBruces" to try to trick readers that it is "RobertBruce" posting, but I can see that "RobertBruces" is just another user account of The Who. Pathetic, Whootie
Placing an "S" at the end of a persons name shows possession. If you want to show possession as in "RobertBruces own words" The "S" signifies the words belong to RobertBruce (no "S" at the end). To take it a step further an apostophe should be added. So to correct this we would want to change it to "RobertBruce's own words"
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 05:57:31 PM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Just when you think someone has sunk to lowest level humanly possible, you get this:Quote from: "TheWho"QuoteNow, let's examine this, Who: Let's say, for argument's sake that a kid's very own counselor sexually abuses him/her. ASR's plan, as you verified with them like I did, is to have that child report the abuse directly to the person that perpetrated it.
This is downright scary and paves the road for child abuse. I would avoid this facility at all costs. It's dangerous!
"Sure, DJ, of course it is possible. The guy on the abuse hot line could talk dirty to the kids also..."
This gem had to be posted in his own thread for time imemorial! WOW! :o
I just wonder how this guy lives with himself...
Here's another The Who "gem." he thinks there should not be an abuse hotline at ASR because the hotline attendant might "talk dirty" to the abused child. So, he'd rather have the abuse occur with no way to report it, like when a counselor abused ('anally raped'?) his son. That hotline could have saved your boy's life, Who.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 06:00:11 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
QuoteQuote from: "Guest"QuoteRobertBruces own words:
"I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho and I are one and the same. I created the character a few years ago as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea. I wanted to give all the anti-program posters an opportunity to showcase everything that's sick and wrong with this industry....."
Original post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=2610#p262336)
Hmmmmmm...... Interesting.
Yes this IS very interesting, especially the supposed poster's name "RobertBruces" - it appears that The Who created a username called "RobertBruces" to try to trick readers that it is "RobertBruce" posting, but I can see that "RobertBruces" is just another user account of The Who. Pathetic, Whootie
Placing an "S" at the end of a persons name shows possession. If you want to show possession as in "RobertBruces own words" The "S" signifies the words belong to RobertBruce (no "S" at the end). To take it a step further an apostophe should be added. So to correct this we would want to change it to "RobertBruce's own words"
Nice try, but we can all see you created the username "RobertBruces" to try to mislead. It's clear as day. What about the above posts about children being raped and you condoning it and not wanting them to be able to report it? THAT's what I want to hear your commentary on, The Who.
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 06:08:22 PM
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=ff16a07f0cb247be085f3a6d0ed5a1e8&sid=ff16a07f0cb247be085f3a6d0ed5a1e8#p334604)
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 06:11:58 PM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
QuoteScooter Libby Jr. said:
"Believe me DJ, no matter how hard you try to paint me?.I am never going to join you at your level ."
Just stating the obvious, Scooter.
To join me at my level you'll first require some semblance of a college education, a functioning cerebrum, and honesty. I'm quite sure none of those are going to come to pass.
Now how about those names of the counselors you have "proven" to be licensed...?
DJ is guilty of slavery. He has owned The Who for several years now. And just look at the level you're at now, Who. You got nothing left. And Psy said you're smart?? C'mon, Psy. Care to revise???
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 06:13:20 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=2610#p262336)
This IS quite a confession, Who.
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 06:22:47 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=ff16a07f0cb247be085f3a6d0ed5a1e8&sid=ff16a07f0cb247be085f3a6d0ed5a1e8#p334604)
Does your post really bother you that much? Why did you write it then? It is amazing that you put in this much energy to cover it up.
By now most people know that you are the man behind TheWho posts. No use try to run from it bruce.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 06:37:22 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"QuoteScooter Libby Jr. said:
"Believe me DJ, no matter how hard you try to paint me?.I am never going to join you at your level ."
Just stating the obvious, Scooter.
To join me at my level you'll first require some semblance of a college education, a functioning cerebrum, and honesty. I'm quite sure none of those are going to come to pass.
Now how about those names of the counselors you have "proven" to be licensed...?
DJ is guilty of slavery. He has owned The Who for several years now. And just look at the level you're at now, Who. You got nothing left. And Psy said you're smart?? C'mon, Psy. Care to revise???
I don't condone slavery, but in this case...Meh. The Who has now forfeited five days of his life in favor of posting "Bruce did it" hundreds of times. Weak, Who. Very weak. Plus the link goes right to one of your posts anyway! DUH!!
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 06:38:59 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=2610#p262336)
This IS quite a confession, Who.
I know! Right? Links to his own post like a dum-dum.
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 06:44:05 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=5f6d862421d9154217b3bfe025d4d822&sid=5f6d862421d9154217b3bfe025d4d822#p334604)
Why are you trying to avoid it?
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 06:46:11 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"QuoteQuote from: "Guest"QuoteRobertBruces own words:
"I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho and I are one and the same. I created the character a few years ago as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea. I wanted to give all the anti-program posters an opportunity to showcase everything that's sick and wrong with this industry....."
Original post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=2610#p262336)
Hmmmmmm...... Interesting.
Yes this IS very interesting, especially the supposed poster's name "RobertBruces" - it appears that The Who created a username called "RobertBruces" to try to trick readers that it is "RobertBruce" posting, but I can see that "RobertBruces" is just another user account of The Who. Pathetic, Whootie
Placing an "S" at the end of a persons name shows possession. If you want to show possession as in "RobertBruces own words" The "S" signifies the words belong to RobertBruce (no "S" at the end). To take it a step further an apostophe should be added. So to correct this we would want to change it to "RobertBruce's own words"
Nice try, but we can all see you created the username "RobertBruces" to try to mislead. It's clear as day. What about the above posts about children being raped and you condoning it and not wanting them to be able to report it? THAT's what I want to hear your commentary on, The Who.
I believe this post was doctored. It's supposedly some great "confession" but this person that appears to be The Who posting anonymously has altered it substantially in several posts so now there's really no way to verify the information. It looks like it was done intentionally to try to make someone else look like they posted this guy's stuff. Even the username "RobertBruces" doesn't match the guy's account that The Who is trying to blame (for being himself??). I dunno, but the whole trying to impersonate someone is stupid and the guy has been doing it for a few days. What a lame-o.
Then the whole child rape fantasy thing? That's not funny even though I think he was joking. It's really bad even to make fun of a kid being raped. Too far. Not funny, sick.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 06:48:37 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=2610#p262336)
Why are you trying to avoid it?
Are you talking to me?? I'm not trying to avoid anything. Are you the guy in the link or something? Why would you confess to something like that??
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 06:50:48 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=5f6d862421d9154217b3bfe025d4d822&sid=5f6d862421d9154217b3bfe025d4d822#p334604)
I bet I know which post you wish you could take back. Ha Ha Ha
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 06:53:19 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 06:54:21 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=2610#p262336)
Why are you trying to avoid it?
Are you talking to me?? I'm not trying to avoid anything. Are you the guy in the link or something? Why would you confess to something like that??
Still have no idea why you're saying that to me, but are you or are you not the guy from the link??
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Bruce, what is wrong with you. Why do you keep putting up that link to TheWhos statistics. Thats the last thing we need. What is your problem?
He is not responding, I think he is in remote mode now.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 06:59:07 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Bruce, what is wrong with you. Why do you keep putting up that link to TheWhos statistics. Thats the last thing we need. What is your problem?
Sorry, dude. I don't want to make anyone angry here. Thanks for pointing this out. You're reading below the post that's linked to. it's at the top of the page right under the address bar. Check it out. Sorry again if I offended you by accident. I had no idea that The Who has made so many people that upset, but again, sorry :peace:
More about The Who here. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3750#p335137)
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 07:06:06 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote
Placing an "S" at the end of a persons name shows possession. If you want to show possession as in "RobertBruces own words" The "S" signifies the words belong to RobertBruce (no "S" at the end). To take it a step further an apostophe should be added. So to correct this we would want to change it to "RobertBruce's own words"
Nice try, but we can all see you created the username "RobertBruces" to try to mislead. It's clear as day. What about the above posts about children being raped and you condoning it and not wanting them to be able to report it? THAT's what I want to hear your commentary on, The Who.
Quote
I believe this post was doctored. It's supposedly some great "confession" but this person that appears to be The Who posting anonymously has altered it substantially in several posts so now there's really no way to verify the information. It looks like it was done intentionally to try to make someone else look like they posted this guy's stuff. Even the username "RobertBruces" doesn't match the guy's account that The Who is trying to blame (for being himself??). I dunno, but the whole trying to impersonate someone is stupid and the guy has been doing it for a few days. What a lame-o.
Then the whole child rape fantasy thing? That's not funny even though I think he was joking. It's really bad even to make fun of a kid being raped. Too far. Not funny, sick.
I totally agree that The Who was probably joking when he said this, but even joking, this is really low and damages everything he has to say. It's just not right.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 07:14:32 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Bruce, what is wrong with you. Why do you keep putting up that link to TheWhos statistics. Thats the last thing we need. What is your problem?
Sorry, dude. I don't want to make anyone angry here. Thanks for pointing this out. You're reading below the post that's linked to. it's at the top of the page right under the address bar. Check it out. Sorry again if I offended you by accident. I had no idea that The Who has made so many people that upset, but again, sorry :peace:
More about The Who here. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3750#p335137)
To the first guest-don't let TheWho get you down. He gets satisfaction from seeing survivors like you upset. Don't play into it.
To the second guest-thanks for clearing up the link issue. It's the one at the top! Now you guys shake hands and stop letting The Who get to you.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2009, 07:17:22 PM
A malignant narcissist IS the kind of person you will be entrusting your child to should you enter him into a program.
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 07:17:52 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=5f6d862421d9154217b3bfe025d4d822&sid=5f6d862421d9154217b3bfe025d4d822#p334604)
Whoa, someone is pissed. Keep trying to cover up your past Bruce. This JUST keeps popping up to the top
"Boing!!!"
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 07:28:10 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Bruce, what is wrong with you. Why do you keep putting up that link to TheWhos statistics. Thats the last thing we need. What is your problem?
Sorry, dude. I don't want to make anyone angry here. Thanks for pointing this out. You're reading below the post that's linked to. it's at the top of the page right under the address bar. Check it out. Sorry again if I offended you by accident. I had no idea that The Who has made so many people that upset, but again, sorry :peace:
More about The Who here. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3750#p335137)
To the first guest-don't let TheWho get you down. He gets satisfaction from seeing survivors like you upset. Don't play into it.
To the second guest-thanks for clearing up the link issue. It's the one at the top! Now you guys shake hands and stop letting The Who get to you.
See what I'm saying, you guys? The WHo spends day after day just trying to make a kid who was abused at HLA feel bad. Don't fall into it. I'll catch you guys later. Gonna watch some TV!
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 07:35:03 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Guest"Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3750#p335137)
Whoa, someone is vulnerable. Keep trying to cover up your ass, Bruce. This cock of mine JUST keeps popping up to the top
"Boing!!!"
Dude, you are FUCKED UP! Fantasizng about anally raping "Brucie" now?
Definitely the same guy in the link! NAZ-Tee, whooter!
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 07:39:41 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Year spent at HLA--------------------------------$52,000.00
Cost to HLA due to active campaign for regulation and lawsuit........$1,000,000.00 +
Exposing industry apologist, moron, and child abuse advocate, all while embarrassing and shaming him in a hilarious manner several times a day........Free
Continual exposure of how dangerous this industry is, and constantly eroding the business of these places while saving kids lives........priceless.
You got that right, Brucie. Did you see The Who created a username called "RobertBruces" to try to impersonate you? Too funny!
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 07:40:03 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=ffc6efed43c5c834ad07f85e2cf435a2&sid=ffc6efed43c5c834ad07f85e2cf435a2#p334604)
Still wont go away, Bruce. Everyone will read it and know you are TheWho and find out is was you all along who said all those nasty things..... Try "Reputation Protectors", I heard they do wonders....
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 07:42:39 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=2610#p262336)
Why are you trying to avoid it?
Are you talking to me?? I'm not trying to avoid anything. Are you the guy in the link or something? Why would you confess to something like that??
Well, ARE YOU THE GUY IN THE LINK OR NOT? Just answer the question, please.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 07:45:23 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Bruce, what is wrong with you. Why do you keep putting up that link to TheWhos statistics. Thats the last thing we need. What is your problem?
Sorry, dude. I don't want to make anyone angry here. Thanks for pointing this out. You're reading below the post that's linked to. it's at the top of the page right under the address bar. Check it out. Sorry again if I offended you by accident. I had no idea that The Who has made so many people that upset, but again, sorry :peace:
More about The Who here. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3750#p335137)
To the first guest-don't let TheWho get you down. He gets satisfaction from seeing survivors like you upset. Don't play into it.
To the second guest-thanks for clearing up the link issue. It's the one at the top! Now you guys shake hands and stop letting The Who get to you.
Come on,Who. These guys don't deserve your abuse. Can you please start a thread called "RobertBruces Did It" and post that link over there? These guys are just trying to be heard. Can't you let up on them for tonight?
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 07:48:08 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=ffc6efed43c5c834ad07f85e2cf435a2&sid=ffc6efed43c5c834ad07f85e2cf435a2#p334604)
Everyone knows who is in the link.... just click it and see...... then you will find the answer you desire...... TheWho and RobertBruce are the same. Bruce has been sick the whole time....left HLA after a few weeks so he never got the help he needed.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 07:54:43 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://=http)
Everyone knows who is in the link.... just click it and see...... then you will find the answer you desire...... TheWho and RobertBruce are the same. Bruce has been sick the whole time....left HLA after a few weeks so he never got the help he needed.
Seriously, Psy? Seriously? He's smarter than I think? Psy, you've seen how I've done this for several days in a row, and you say this guy is "smart"? Psy, tell me you've witnessed anything other than complete mastery of the art of control and I'll quit. Honestly.
And, so, Who? I read your damn link. Tell me something I don't know you fucking buggerer.
The question is "What do you have to say about it?" Please respond in one minute or less.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 07:56:07 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3750#p335137)
Everyone knows who is in the link.... just click it and see...... then you will find the answer you desire...... TheWho and RobertBruce are the same. Bruce has been sick the whole time....left HLA after a few weeks so he never got the help he needed.
Seriously, Psy? Seriously? He's smarter than I think? Psy, you've seen how I've done this for several days in a row, and you say this guy is "smart"? Psy, tell me you've witnessed anything other than complete mastery of the art of control and I'll quit. Honestly.
And, so, Who? I read your damn link. Tell me something I don't know you fucking buggerer.
The question is "What do you have to say about it?" Please respond in one minute or less.
Didn't I just tell you to respond??
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 07:58:02 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Bruce, what is wrong with you. Why do you keep putting up that link to TheWhos statistics. Thats the last thing we need. What is your problem?
Sorry, dude. I don't want to make anyone angry here. Thanks for pointing this out. You're reading below the post that's linked to. it's at the top of the page right under the address bar. Check it out. Sorry again if I offended you by accident. I had no idea that The Who has made so many people that upset, but again, sorry :peace:
More about The Who here. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3750#p335137)
To the first guest-don't let TheWho get you down. He gets satisfaction from seeing survivors like you upset. Don't play into it.
To the second guest-thanks for clearing up the link issue. It's the one at the top! Now you guys shake hands and stop letting The Who get to you.
Come on,Who. These guys don't deserve your abuse. Can you please start a thread called "RobertBruces Did It" and post that link over there? These guys are just trying to be heard. Can't you let up on them for tonight?
Who you should start this thread 'RobertBruces did It' so you can give your conspiracy theories the time they deserve. Thanks, buddy.
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 07:59:32 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=d08897f5fc378ea924e2fa4030807e71&sid=d08897f5fc378ea924e2fa4030807e71#p334604)
The truth will slowly engulf to you, Bruce. Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle ... but you wont get far!!!
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 08:00:51 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 08:03:05 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27787&start=60#p335180)
My mouth will slowly engulf to you, Bruce. Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle ... but you wont get far!!!
Waddaya gonna do? Hold him down?? Heh. Back to your old style again. "Raped kids are funny" style, bro. Original Whooter.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 08:05:18 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 08:07:55 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"Year spent at HLA--------------------------------$52,000.00
Cost to HLA due to active campaign for regulation and lawsuit........$1,000,000.00 +
Exposing industry apologist, moron, and child abuse advocate, all while embarrassing and shaming him in a hilarious manner several times a day........Free
Continual exposure of how dangerous this industry is, and constantly eroding the business of these places while saving kids lives........priceless.
You got that right, Brucie. Did you see The Who created a username called "RobertBruces" to try to impersonate you? Too funny!
Too funny. He almost fooled you! The Who made up this username called RobertBruces and tried to prted to be another guy from HLA. Weird, right?
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 08:12:59 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27787&start=60#p335180)
My mouth will slowly engulf to you, Bruce. Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle ... but you wont get far!!!
Waddaya gonna do? Hold him down?? Heh. Back to your old style again. "Raped kids are funny" style, bro. Original Whooter.
Who, you're gonna try to force oral on straight guy? That's rough.
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 08:49:04 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=5875cfa105d85dd4f4f888bd9065df24&sid=5875cfa105d85dd4f4f888bd9065df24#p334604)
The truth will slowly engulf to you, Bruce. Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle ... but you wont get far!!!
Sorry, I got to keep it up for your own good
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 09:07:24 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 09:10:31 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27787&start=60#p335180)
My mouth will slowly engulf to you, Bruce. Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle ... but you wont get far!!!
Waddaya gonna do? Hold him down?? Heh. Back to your old style again. "Raped kids are funny" style, bro. Original Whooter.
Who, you're gonna try to force oral on straight guy? That's rough.
And he's saying it's for Robert's "own good" too. I miss this thread! The first thing I read when I come back is that The Who is going to "force oral" on Robert "for (his) own good." Apparently I've been missing quite a bit here. I see The Who is now claiming to be Robert. How interesting.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 09:14:13 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Why does Bruce always revert back to the gay or homosexual theme... interesting. Kind of an HLA throw back? Still working on it, Devon?
QFT. Whooter is pinched again.
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 09:20:36 PM
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 09:22:19 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=d3d89864af8edb731860f9dbd00c3e2a&sid=d3d89864af8edb731860f9dbd00c3e2a#p334604)
The truth will slowly engulf to you, Bruce. Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle ... but you wont get far!!!
Sorry, I got to keep it up for your own good
Gotta Read the link....no?
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 09:23:58 PM
Quote from: "Dr. Sam Vanknin"
COUCH TIME FOR WHO
Malignant Self Love
It is difficult to recognize a narcissist because he (or she) spends all of his time acting, protecting his ego by presenting to the world a false image of them self. Consequently he becomes a master of deceit. But it is extremely important to be able to recognize people whose behavior is detrimental to their organization's performance
A narcissist is someone who is overtly or subtly arrogant, exhibitionistic, vain, manipulative, and greedy for admiration. Narcissistic rage, character assassination and projection are some of the overt ways in which the narcissist expresses himself Projection in teams is particularly prevalent.
The denial of remorse and gratitude by the narcissist are two of the more subtle ways used to protect an internal sense of grandiosity. An example of a narcissist's ability to be subtle might be when he arrives late for a meeting. Rather than offer a sincere apology, he may blame someone else for keeping him talking, thus externalizing the fault ("It's not my fault") and maintaining his sense of grandiosity.
Despite tending to be exhibitionistic, it is very rare to hear narcissist brag or boast. Instead, he (or she) tends to 'drop' information in the form of an ostensibly ordinary matter-of-fact report, which appears to be intended to elicit attention (positive or negative) without asking for it, in a way meant to induce a sense of distance and inferiority in the recipient of the information; again maintaining his sense of grandiosity.
http://www.recognizenarcissist.html (http://www.recognizenarcissist.html)
That describes The Who alright, Projection is what he does best like "RobertBruces Did It". But then he says he created RobertBruces and they're the same person. But they're different from RobertBruce, too. The Who and RobertBruces are the same guy though.
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 09:27:28 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Why does Bruces always revert back to the gay or homosexual theme... interesting. Kind of an HLA throw back? Still working on it, Devon?
Wait a minute. Devon and The Wjo and RobertBruces are all The Who? This is getting confusing. RobertBruce is the kid from HLA, RobertBruces is the fake created by The Who and now Devon isanother person made up by The Who? So The Who is 3 MORE people now?
Post by: Troll Control on June 29, 2009, 09:31:03 PM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27787&start=60#p335180)
My mouth will slowly engulf to you, Bruce. Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle ... but you wont get far!!!
Waddaya gonna do? Hold him down?? Heh. Back to your old style again. "Raped kids are funny" style, bro. Original Whooter.
Who, you're gonna try to force oral on straight guy? That's rough.
And he's saying it's for Robert's "own good" too. I miss this thread! The first thing I read when I come back is that The Who is going to "force oral" on Robert "for (his) own good." Apparently I've been missing quite a bit here. I see The Who is now claiming to be Robert. How interesting.
Yeah, I'm used to them just bickering back and forth, but The Who really stepped it up a few notches. He laso invented "RobertBruces" a new screenname to try to look like "RobertBruce".
Post by: Inculcated on June 29, 2009, 09:33:24 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
If that’s the sad case as it may be, I have an excellent referral for him. But I’m pretty sure Dr. Vanknin was right about Who’s narcissism.Quote from: "Guest"ad nauseum
Wait a minute. Devon and The Wjo and RobertBruces are all The Who? This is getting confusing. RobertBruce is the kid from HLA, RobertBruces is the fake created by The Who and now Devon isanother person made up by The Who? So The Who is 3 MORE people now?
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 09:39:18 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Why does Bruces always revert back to the gay or homosexual theme... interesting. Kind of an HLA throw back? Still working on it, Devon?
Wait a minute. Devon and The Wjo and RobertBruces are all The Who? This is getting confusing. RobertBruce is the kid from HLA, RobertBruces is the fake created by The Who and now Devon isanother person made up by The Who? So The Who is 3 MORE people now?
you forgot whooter and DJ......there is definitely some multiple personalities going on here check this out:
Quote from: "Guest"
Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=126d19077e0a5ebc9c6d53c53a171765&sid=126d19077e0a5ebc9c6d53c53a171765#p334604)
I bet I know which post you wish you could take back.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2009, 09:49:38 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Guest,Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"?Quote from: "Guest"my confession[/url]
I bet I know which post you wish you could take back.
Was that yourconfession or Guest's confession?
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 09:52:50 PM
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=5c94bffd4c4321ea6b9cf7ebc34037e2&sid=5c94bffd4c4321ea6b9cf7ebc34037e2#p334604)
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2009, 10:38:10 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
It looked like your link wasnt working..... click below...it is self explanatory
http://viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=90
Post by: RobertBruce on June 29, 2009, 10:54:22 PM
The reason I post more often when you're around is because I find your antics hilarious. You only help us Cindy. Your refusal to face reality is comedic, and proving you wrong constantly brings a smile to my face. You're nothing more than a buffon who's too stupid to know he's being laughed at.
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 11:03:36 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=721c342d237d1302499463ce973ccce3&sid=721c342d237d1302499463ce973ccce3#p334604)
I bet I know which post you wish you could take back. But you will need to take responsibility for it first. Then it may get easier. I know this is a tough area for you, accountability that is.
Hang in there, I wont go away.
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2009, 11:06:31 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Hang in there, I wont go away.
Post by: TheWho on June 29, 2009, 11:09:35 PM
Quote from: "Like an STD or a stalker"
Quote from: "Guest"
Hang in there, I wont go away.
Ha Ha Ha Exactly... Thats funny
Post by: RobertBruce on June 30, 2009, 12:11:46 AM
Quote
I bet I know which post you wish you could take back. But you will need to take responsibility for it first. Then it may get easier. I know this is a tough area for you, accountability that is.
Hang in there, I wont go away.
I dont have any posts I wish I could take back. I'm proud of each and every one of them. Hence why I always log in for my posts. How about you Whooter? In any event I hope you are here to stay this time. I truly do.
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 06:38:35 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Lets take a look......Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=ca8d1d4585e6135e837fe009d95eab13&sid=ca8d1d4585e6135e837fe009d95eab13#p334604)
I bet I know which post you wish you could take back.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 30, 2009, 07:01:36 AM
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 08:25:40 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
You've missed a lot, DJ. He made up a username, 'RobertBruces' and tried to claim that he is both The Who and 'RobertBruces' .
Huh, I see that. Why would The Who make up a name called "RobertBruces" if he wasn't trying to fool people??
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 08:42:05 AM
I am very disappointed in the quality of your effort, as it appears you've been fully owned by a small pack of anons beating you at your own game. Ever thought about retiring from the trolling business?
I hate to say this, but I'm actually worried about this guy's well-being. I mean, this is a herculean effort to polish a turd. Who, please, for your own sake, you can't burnish your shit-like reputation. You've fallen too far to get back any semblance of credibility. Do you see what you've been reduced to? This really is sad to watch, my friends.
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 10:33:34 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Lets take a look......Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=0db244feeabae0aef13ab0bc3a94c769&sid=0db244feeabae0aef13ab0bc3a94c769#p334604)
I bet I know which post you wish you could take back.
Who is this TheWho person and why did RobertBruce impersonate him? Why didnt RobertBruce just write what he had to say under his own name? Its not like we know who each other really are anyway.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 11:07:26 AM
Quote
Its not like we know who each other really are anyway.
That's true, you and RB definitely don't know who eachother are, which means, de facto, that you and he are not the same person. Case closed (again).
So, Who, what do you think of the comments above? Looks like you really have hit rock-bottom with your trolling career. Anyone who reads knows what you're all about, but you lost that last bit of class you once had. You are no longer able to rise above the fray and troll properly. It's sad, yes, but Fornits has done you in, my friend. You thought you could take on hundreds of survivors and (no pun intended :roflmao: ) ram it down their throats. But, alas, you're not up to the task. What's worse is that any point you may have made before that may have had some legs has been completely undercut by your current endeavor, which is woefully inadequate to sway anyone's opinion. Sorry, The Who, epic fail on your part.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 11:14:03 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Creepy. I forgot all about the signature argument. Classic. Remember I had him claiming that a person signing for an entire organization only equaled one person, and he somehow could grasp the simple concept of a group or organization passing a resolution. And then to sweeten his stupidity I made him claim there were only 10,000 psychologist in the US. Wow did I do a good job making a him a moron or what?
Wow, this guy is still obsessed. If robert Bruce isnt thewho can someone get thewho out here to calm this man down. He needs to be confronted. I have seen thewho piss people off before but this guy RB is hooked.
Maybe the above explains thewho's dedication to harassing survivors of institutionalized torture and brainwashing? He simply enjoys it? He likes "confronting" (upsetting, mocking, haranguing, hurting people through sensitive personal topics) and this is the only medium he has to do it, now that his kid committed suicide?
Good question, Guest. Looks like that is exactly the case. You see, when someone like The Who, a person with no self-worth, drags someone else down to the gutter he feels better that he's not alone and may even feel superior. This is why he keeps hammering the completely false meme that he is RB. He would love to be absolved of his image by transferring it onto RB, but that ain't happenin'.
Just think about what it's like to be him; to have nothing more in life than a pissing match with an abused child to get up in the morning for. Wife's gone, live son's gone with wifey and the other son is dead because of his actions. I'm surprised he hasn't just eaten a gun barrel, but that would take some guts, not The Who's strong suit.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2009, 11:15:51 AM
Too bad that he's polarized in the opposite mindset. But, you're not making it any easier for him to rethink that, are you?
It's probably cathartic for him to pound the keyboard doing battle with all of you. But WHAT, if anything, does that resolve? You're just giving him the excuse to stay his course.
Ever consider taking the high road on this one?
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 11:31:22 AM
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 11:38:12 AM
Quote
RobertBruces own words:
"I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho and I are one and the same. I created the character a few years ago as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea. I wanted to give all the anti-program posters an opportunity to showcase everything that's sick and wrong with this industry....."
Original post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=0db244feeabae0aef13ab0bc3a94c769&sid=0db244feeabae0aef13ab0bc3a94c769#p334604)
Another question that has not been answered:
I guess we can agree that TheWho character was abusive, but the question remains as to why you would hide behind this user name and take pot shots at fellow survivors? Rip into Dysfunction Junction every chance you got, making him look like a fool......What was gained by that Bruce? Was it because he was an ex-HLA Staff member?
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2009, 12:00:32 PM
:twofinger:
...
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 12:05:10 PM
It is true that RobertBruces and The Who are the same person, but "RobertBruces" shouldn't be confused with "RobertBruce." RobertBruces is a parody of RobertBruce.
Really, Who. All you can come up with is "RobertBruces did it and RobertBruces is RobertBruce"? Not cutting it.
EDIT: Reminder that Whooter created a lookalike account to RobertBruce's. Twisted.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 12:12:59 PM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
OK, here's The Who lying through his teeth yet again (surprise, surprise).
THIS is the original beginning of the argument where YOU said "The overwhelming majority of professionals believe these schools are making a big difference in these kids lives and are responsible for turning them around and getting them on track..." This is the very beginning. You also went back and edited your post later to remove this, but, of course I had already quoted you, so the cat was out of the bag at that point.QuoteOn 2006-06-21 09:21:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Quote
The overwhelming majority of professionals believe these schools are making a big difference in these kids lives and are responsible for turning them around and getting them on track...
This is an unmitigated crock of shit. Show the documentation that supports this ridiculous notion.Quote
And yes I believe we are all on equal footing and have a right to state our opinions from our own experiences.
Everyone here has the unabridged right to post what they want. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Your opinion happens to be wrong. It is so wrong that you have to fabricate statements like the one above stating the "overwhelming majority of professionals" recommend this treatment. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. But, hey, that never stops you! :lol:
"
Again, I'll ask you: Can you provide evidence that "The overwhelming majority of professionals believe these schools are making a big difference in these kids lives and are responsible for turning them around and getting them on track..." or can't you?
You've spent two days dodging the issue, editing your posts and lying like a rug to avoid answering for this statement. You said it, now back it up.
You also said "The professionals don't agree with you, DJ" but I was able to provide a list of at least 130 individuals and a half-dozen professional societies consisting of thousands of members. You have provided exactly NOTHING to support your claim.
That's the difference between you and me, Who. I say what I mean, I am accountable for it and provide evidence to support it. You lie, make things up, edit your posts to remove the lies you've been caught in and sign my name to anonymous posts that I didn't write.
You are a pathetic individual.
Looks like you're up to the same tricks you were using three years ago - editing posts, signing other people's names to anonymous posts and trolling like a salmon fisherman. It's old and pathetic, dude. Did you lose your job or something? Or are you still just upset that your wife ditched you? Get over it, man. and give us some good troll-cheese. This "RobertBruces did it" theme is boring.
Pinched again.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 12:25:58 PM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Dang, Who. Have you been up all night again? Seriously, man, do you do anything other than troll your namesake thread pretending not to be yourself? You're not even fun to play with anymore. You're consumed by Fornits. You're a shadow of your former professional troll self.
I am very disappointed in the quality of your effort, as it appears you've been fully owned by a small pack of anons beating you at your own game. Ever thought about retiring from the trolling business?
I hate to say this, but I'm actually worried about this guy's well-being. I mean, this is a herculean effort to polish a turd. Who, please, for your own sake, you can't burnish your shit-like reputation. You've fallen too far to get back any semblance of credibility. Do you see what you've been reduced to? This really is sad to watch, my friends.
I agree, and I'm struck by the sadness aspect of it. It is really the truth that a once proud man has been reduced to arguing with an abused child on the internet to get his rocks off. I agree with an earlier poster that the child abuse industry has done this fellow in. They basically caused the death of his son and now they've pimped him out to try to get more people's kids into the same abusive situation. The Who has finally been used up completely by the Aspen Group and it really is very sad.
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 12:32:22 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=0db244feeabae0aef13ab0bc3a94c769&sid=0db244feeabae0aef13ab0bc3a94c769#p334604)
Why are you trying to make Dysfunction Junction look like a jerk all the time RobertBruce/TheWho or what ever your name is. What did he ever do to you? Like DJ said, why do you stay up all night writting this crap. Back when you were posting as TheWho and RobertBruce you at least took a few breaks... you seemed consumed by it all now.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 12:58:49 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"Dang, Who. Have you been up all night again? Seriously, man, do you do anything other than troll your namesake thread pretending not to be yourself? You're not even fun to play with anymore. You're consumed by Fornits. You're a shadow of your former professional troll self.
I am very disappointed in the quality of your effort, as it appears you've been fully owned by a small pack of anons beating you at your own game. Ever thought about retiring from the trolling business?
I hate to say this, but I'm actually worried about this guy's well-being. I mean, this is a herculean effort to polish a turd. Who, please, for your own sake, you can't burnish your shit-like reputation. You've fallen too far to get back any semblance of credibility. Do you see what you've been reduced to? This really is sad to watch, my friends.
I agree, and I'm struck by the sadness aspect of it. It is really the truth that a once proud man has been reduced to arguing with an abused child on the internet to get his rocks off. I agree with an earlier poster that the child abuse industry has done this fellow in. They basically caused the death of his son and now they've pimped him out to try to get more people's kids into the same abusive situation. The Who has finally been used up completely by the Aspen Group and it really is very sad.
It's hard to watch. He's like a junkie on his deathbed that keeps sticking the needle in his arm. Fornits is the cause of, and solution to, all of The Who's problems. Get a grip, Who. You're in rough shape if all you can come up with is "RobertBruces did it" and just say it over and over. Don't you get tired of your flailing?
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2009, 01:05:08 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 01:07:06 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
I personally dont believe every pro kiddie gulag poster on here is Cindy, but that being said he has posted under different usernames or claimed to be seperate individuals all with different connections to the industry. Run a search for Littlecats and see what you come up with. Early on in his postings he played this game of posting under multiple names and was stupid enough to give Deborah permission to link all his posts. Once done he was shocked to discover that he had been exposed. He tried to claim he'd been set up, but his prose and lack of thought shines through in whatever guise he uses. Whatsmore, this is the same guy who when I stopped posting for several months began accusing every poster who shot down his arguments (it isnt hard, he's a moron) of being me. When that got old he began posting under a new name pretending to be me, and having arguments with himself, and still somehow losing. This guy is a mess. I stand by my comments from last night, he's an idiot who couldnt reason his way out of a cardboard box. Keep giving him enough rope, he'll do the damage to himself and tuck his tail and run like he always does.
Yes, I remember this, too. All of The Who's posts were linked up under a single username, and guess what? None of RB's posts were included, just The Who's and a few other names he's been posting under. Hah ha ha. For someone who hates to be linked to his alter-egos, you beat the "RobertBruces Did It" drum pretty hard. Epic lulz.
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 01:11:34 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=bc41b4c89ebff7a3f71f0b8227f2a25f&sid=bc41b4c89ebff7a3f71f0b8227f2a25f#p334604)
Why are you trying to make Dysfunction Junction look like a jerk all the time RobertBruce/TheWho or what ever your name is. What did he ever do to you? Like DJ said, why do you stay up all night writting this crap. Back when you were posting as TheWho and RobertBruce you at least took a few breaks... you seemed consumed by it all now.
I have been reading here for awhile and the only connection that I can find is that RobertBruce attended HLA and Dysfunction Junction was on staff there. I think that the only reason RobertBruce made up TheWho character is because he wanted to attack Dysfunction junction as sort of payback for his grief at HLA without him knowing who it was that was making him look like a fool. Bruce got some pleasure from this.
It kind of makes sense now that RobertBruce has come out from behind the curtain.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 01:18:47 PM
Some time ago The Who's posts were linked up under his username. Starngely, RB was posting at the same time period, but none of RB's posts showed up under The Who's user name.
Only The Who's posts under his various names, none of which were RB, BTW were tied together. If RB ever posted, even one time, from the same network as The who, all of his posts would be tied together with Who's. But, they weren't.
This hurts, Who. Your ruse is now permanently disabled. Too bad. I enjoyed watching you squirm, but now you'll have to find some new meme to hammer on...
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2009, 01:24:12 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 01:28:40 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Oops! The Who caught lying again. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13598&p=167838&hilit=littlecats#p167862)
Some time ago The Who's posts were linked up under his username. Starngely, RB was posting at the same time period, but none of RB's posts showed up under The Who's user name.
Only The Who's posts under his various names, none of which were RB, BTW were tied together. If RB ever posted, even one time, from the same network as The who, all of his posts would be tied together with Who's. But, they weren't.
This hurts, Who. Your ruse is now permanently disabled. Too bad. I enjoyed watching you squirm, but now you'll have to find some new meme to hammer on...
Oh, this is rich.
Quote from: "Guest"
QuoteOn 2006-01-25 09:25:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:What is your problem?
"Quote
On 2006-01-25 09:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-01-25 09:05:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"I find your tactics to be questionable at best.
Are you a parent of a teen in a place like this?
Are you a person who works for one of these institutions doing bullshit surveys?
Or are you a burnt out drug addict?"
I am a parent of a teen that attended a program and a parent to several others."
And, according to yor other posts, a burnt out drug addict as well.
In any case, I have no problem debating you. You're bringing a knife to gunfight. Just stick to the topic of the thread and if you want to talk about something else, start a new thread. Stop mucking up the forum with digression.
That's why people get mad. This is the proven tactic of HLA's staff. They muck up the forum so badly with stuff that has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic that people then cannot find what they are looking for. Then Deborah, an unpaid, thankless moderator has to spen her own personal time clearing the threads of your idiotic commentary. Why should she have to clean up your mess?
"
I exposed all my posts for you to read, I did nothing but debate and, as you have read, I am not a member of any school, just a parent.
I have never caused or asked antigen to do any work.
You were the one who got frustrated with my position and asked Antigen to spend time researching me....... and what did you find?
1 wayward post which depicts me as a drug addict who is in highschool .... so either you dont want to debate high school drug addicts or parents who dont agree with you, why do you have to be so thin skinned, all debates dont have to go your way, sometimes other people are right.
I get frustrated with many other peoples positions on topics but I dont ask Antigen to do background checks on them to find some dirt...
Grow-up.
Little cats
What did we find, you ask? Well, for starters, you and RB have nothing in common and your posts are not his or vice-versa. Proven fact, wingnut.
Now let's move on to your next strategy. Come on, Who, let's roll.
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 01:32:28 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Oops! The Who caught lying again. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13598&p=167838&hilit=littlecats#p167862)
Some time ago The Who's posts were linked up under his username. Starngely, RB was posting at the same time period, but none of RB's posts showed up under The Who's user name.
Only The Who's posts under his various names, none of which were RB, BTW were tied together. If RB ever posted, even one time, from the same network as The who, all of his posts would be tied together with Who's. But, they weren't.
This hurts, Who. Your ruse is now permanently disabled. Too bad. I enjoyed watching you squirm, but now you'll have to find some new meme to hammer on...
TheWho/RobertBruce what ever he calls himself now always posted together and it was always curious to me. But after Bruce sold the name off to Ursus he then confessed that he was the man behind TheWho mask. It was a good ruse but I think many of his posts crossed the line in making fun of fellow survivors which comes from having no accountability for his actions. But Bruces time has come and he doesnt like the reception has gotten since revealing his secret:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=acf847b4b6df22f59868baa57054666c&sid=acf847b4b6df22f59868baa57054666c#p334604)
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 01:41:37 PM
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 01:49:09 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
QuoteOn 2006-01-23 14:51:00, Anonymous wrote:I never claimed my information came from a clinical study, in fact I said a clinical study was not done. Programs call students families to see how they are doing and get a "Level of the water". This means that the study isnt conclusive but they can at least get a feel for what/how they are doing. A lot of companies do this, clinical studies can take years and their results can be inconclusive, so many companies opt for a phone survey, which is quicker. It sounds like you have more accurate data?
"Quote
"if the kid would ever go!!"
Don't you use escort services that make this point moot?Quote"There have not been any Clinical studies done on HLA graduates. "
Hang on, get this:Quote"The findings are stunning"
WHAT findings? Your opinion?Quote"Many times the child can manipulate the parents into pulling them out "
Those damned manipulating kids again.
Why not tell the truth and say that many intelligent, well-informed, professional parents have legitimate concerns with the gap between what you advertise and what you provide?
Who are you to be speaking on behalf of HLA? Maybe you are a manipulating teenager posing as an HLA marketer...?
Own your position and your identity or get lost. You have posted so much disinformation that you can't be taken seriously by anybody.
"QuoteOwn your position and your identity or get lost. You have posted so much disinformation that you can't be taken seriously by anybody.I own my position and my identity has not changed. you are just seeing a different opinion and one that is first hand.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 01:55:18 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
QuoteOn 2006-01-25 09:47:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"You were also found to have been discussing matters you apparently know nothing about, carrying on conversations with yourself, and changing positions as the topics suited you.
Whats with the Goebells reference?"
**** You were also found to have been discussing matters you apparently know nothing about ***
I would argue that, but if true, would that make me unique in this forum?
**** carrying on conversations with yourself ***
Well -- you got me there, my daughter would agree with you, bad habit.
Little cats
oh, this is too easy. logged in as The Who, signing as 'Little cats' and admitting the personal problem of carrying on conversations with himself. oh, who, you are so weak.
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 02:11:43 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=3aea622d093e294a9b0bb33f344073e6&sid=3aea622d093e294a9b0bb33f344073e6#p334604)
So what you are trying to say is RobertBruce was thewho and now Littlecats? Whoa Bruce, you got some spainin to do. Seems someone has turned over a rock (or should we say, "Let the cat out of the bag") Ha,Ha,Ha,. How many names are you posting under..... come on now come clean.
See if anyone can post any more of these "littlecat" posts to see what the bruce has been up to.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 02:21:28 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Oops! The Who caught lying again. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13598&p=167838&hilit=littlecats#p167862)
Some time ago The Who's posts were linked up under his username. Starngely, RB was posting at the same time period, but none of RB's posts showed up under The Who's user name.
Only The Who's posts under his various names, none of which were RB, BTW were tied together. If RB ever posted, even one time, from the same network as The who, all of his posts would be tied together with Who's. But, they weren't.
This hurts, Who. Your ruse is now permanently disabled. Too bad. I enjoyed watching you squirm, but now you'll have to find some new meme to hammer on...
Nope, what I'm saying is that it has been proven that The Who is Littlecats and that Littlecats is not Robertbruce, therefore robertBruce and The Who cannot be the same person. Simple deductive resoning. Are you thinking that Fornits posters aren't capable of this analysis, Who? Looks like they are.
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 02:24:49 PM
The RobertBruce confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=3aea622d093e294a9b0bb33f344073e6&sid=3aea622d093e294a9b0bb33f344073e6#p334604)
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 02:50:33 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"I personally dont believe every pro kiddie gulag poster on here is Cindy, but that being said he has posted under different usernames or claimed to be seperate individuals all with different connections to the industry. Run a search for Littlecats and see what you come up with. Early on in his postings he played this game of posting under multiple names and was stupid enough to give Deborah permission to link all his posts. Once done he was shocked to discover that he had been exposed. He tried to claim he'd been set up, but his prose and lack of thought shines through in whatever guise he uses. Whatsmore, this is the same guy who when I stopped posting for several months began accusing every poster who shot down his arguments (it isnt hard, he's a moron) of being me. When that got old he began posting under a new name pretending to be me, and having arguments with himself, and still somehow losing. This guy is a mess. I stand by my comments from last night, he's an idiot who couldnt reason his way out of a cardboard box. Keep giving him enough rope, he'll do the damage to himself and tuck his tail and run like he always does.
Yes, I remember this, too. All of The Who's posts were linked up under a single username, and guess what? None of RB's posts were included, just The Who's and a few other names he's been posting under. Hah ha ha. For someone who hates to be linked to his alter-egos, you beat the "RobertBruces Did It" drum pretty hard. Epic lulz.
No problem. The facts are that the admins linked up The Who's posts and they include posts when Who was calling himself "LittleCats." RobertBruce was posting at the same time, but his posts were NOT linked to The Who and LittleCats, therefore RB is not The Who or LittleCats, despite The Who's creation of a poster called "RobertBruces" to try to fool people. Hope this clears it up.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2009, 03:00:41 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Except for one problem:
The RobertBruce confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=3aea622d093e294a9b0bb33f344073e6&sid=3aea622d093e294a9b0bb33f344073e6#p334604)
The who is so robotic, he doesn't grasp sarcasm. Actually he does, but he's so desperate he'll exploit anything he can. Never joke with him, he doesn't understand humor.
So the CALO thing got him riled up again? He must be NATSAP connected, the sniveling loser bitch. What's wrong who? Your kid killed himself and you want other parents to cause their kids deaths, too? You sick piece of work, does that satisfy you?
What's your kid count now, who? Who's still alive and who bothers speaking to you?
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 03:08:29 PM
Quote
The who is so robotic, he doesn't grasp sarcasm. Actually he does, but he's so desperate he'll exploit anything he can.
Yep. Do you know anything about TheWho you'd like to share? So far we know he takes referrals for SUWS and ASR for a fee, pretended to have a daughter, but actually had two sons, and one son killed himself. And The Who and LittleCats are the same person, but can't possibly be RobertBruce, as his posts don't link up. Oh yeah, and that The Who made up a name called "RobertBruces" that he uses now.
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 03:15:29 PM
True confessions (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=685602c42d878b10aa0e3fdf6d760a48&sid=685602c42d878b10aa0e3fdf6d760a48#p334604)
Lots of open issues to resolve here Bruce before anyone moves on.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 03:20:04 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
QuoteThe who is so robotic, he doesn't grasp sarcasm. Actually he does, but he's so desperate he'll exploit anything he can.
Yep. Do you know anything about TheWho you'd like to share? So far we know he takes referrals for SUWS and ASR for a fee, pretended to have a daughter, but actually had two sons, and one son killed himself. And The Who and LittleCats are the same person, but can't possibly be RobertBruce, as his posts don't link up. Oh yeah, and that The Who made up a name called "RobertBruces" that he uses now.
So, is The Who (LittleCats and RobertBruces) calling the admins liars now? Do I have it right, Who? Ginger linked up the posts and RobertBruce's were not included. So, are you saying that Ginger intentionally excluded these posts and that she's a liar? I just want to be clear here.
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 03:32:19 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"QuoteThe who is so robotic, he doesn't grasp sarcasm. Actually he does, but he's so desperate he'll exploit anything he can.
Yep. Do you know anything about TheWho you'd like to share? So far we know he takes referrals for SUWS and ASR for a fee, pretended to have a daughter, but actually had two sons, and one son killed himself. And The Who and LittleCats are the same person, but can't possibly be RobertBruce, as his posts don't link up. Oh yeah, and that The Who made up a name called "RobertBruces" that he uses now.
So, is The Who (LittleCats and RobertBruces) calling the admins liars now? Do I have it right, Who? Ginger linked up the posts and RobertBruce's were not included. So, are you saying that Ginger intentionally excluded these posts and that she's a liar? I just want to be clear here.
Lots of open questions, I agree ... who is Littlecats? who is RobertBruces?
But what we do know is:
True confessions (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=685602c42d878b10aa0e3fdf6d760a48&sid=685602c42d878b10aa0e3fdf6d760a48#p334604)
Lets start there! Its always good to start with what we know.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 03:37:29 PM
And...Are you so embarrassed by your own actions that you want to distance yourself from your postings as The Who, LittleCats and RobertBruces?
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 03:39:38 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Guest"Yes, Who is LittleCats and Who is RobertBruces. You got that part right. The question is are you saying Ginger is a liar? She says The Who is LittleCats, but not RobertBruce. Is she lying about it?
And...Are you so embarrassed by your own actions that you want to distance yourself from your postings as The Who, LittleCats and RobertBruces?
Let me step in here for a minute. From what I have read here I dont think RobertBruce is embarrassed for his actions and postings as TheWho because he openly talked about it here:
RobertBruce Unplugged (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=3ff8ffcef81bad1195348e2288151996#p334604)
What I believe is the question is whether or not he posted under various other names. My personal opinion is that if a person is going to step out and take an alias they are apt to take more than one. So it may be a good assumption that RobertBruce is also behind the posting of Littlecat and RobertBruces
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 03:44:57 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Yes, Who is LittleCats and Who is RobertBruces. You got that part right. The question is are you saying Ginger is a liar? She says The Who is LittleCats, but not RobertBruce. Is she lying about it?
And...Are you so embarrassed by your own actions that you want to distance yourself from your postings as The Who, LittleCats and RobertBruces?
Let me step in here for a minute. From what I have read here I dont think RobertBruce is embarrassed for his actions and postings as TheWho because he openly talked about it here:
RobertBruce Unplugged (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=3ff8ffcef81bad1195348e2288151996&sid=3ff8ffcef81bad1195348e2288151996#p334604)
What I believe is the question is whether or not he posted under various other names. My personal opinion is that if a person is going to step out and take an alias they are apt to take more than one. So it may be a good assumption that RobertBruce is also behind the posting of Littlecat and RobertBruces
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 03:46:35 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2009, 03:59:04 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2009, 04:45:58 PM
But, I see your point. They should at least get a room.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2009, 05:06:12 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2009, 05:11:12 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"I personally dont believe every pro kiddie gulag poster on here is Cindy, but that being said he has posted under different usernames or claimed to be seperate individuals all with different connections to the industry. Run a search for Littlecats and see what you come up with. Early on in his postings he played this game of posting under multiple names and was stupid enough to give Deborah permission to link all his posts. Once done he was shocked to discover that he had been exposed. He tried to claim he'd been set up, but his prose and lack of thought shines through in whatever guise he uses. Whatsmore, this is the same guy who when I stopped posting for several months began accusing every poster who shot down his arguments (it isnt hard, he's a moron) of being me. When that got old he began posting under a new name pretending to be me, and having arguments with himself, and still somehow losing. This guy is a mess. I stand by my comments from last night, he's an idiot who couldnt reason his way out of a cardboard box. Keep giving him enough rope, he'll do the damage to himself and tuck his tail and run like he always does.
Yes, I remember this, too. All of The Who's posts were linked up under a single username, and guess what? None of RB's posts were included, just The Who's and a few other names he's been posting under. Hah ha ha. For someone who hates to be linked to his alter-egos, you beat the "RobertBruces Did It" drum pretty hard. Epic lulz.
No problem. The facts are that the admins linked up The Who's posts and they include posts when Who was calling himself "LittleCats." RobertBruce was posting at the same time, but his posts were NOT linked to The Who and LittleCats, therefore RB is not The Who or LittleCats, despite The Who's creation of a poster called "RobertBruces" to try to fool people. Hope this clears it up.
Not to encourage this, or anything. But, what exactly happened when the administrators linked all of thewho’s posts? Did they lay “Littlecat’s” and thewho’s “guest” posts under thewho’s avatar?
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 05:20:04 PM
But what we do know is:
True confessions (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=099d167546b45b93905410211173d3c7&sid=099d167546b45b93905410211173d3c7#p334604)
Lets start there! Its always good to start with what we know.
Personally I think littlecats is another RobertBruce creation, but we will have to wait and see on that.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 06:33:03 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"I personally dont believe every pro kiddie gulag poster on here is Cindy, but that being said he has posted under different usernames or claimed to be seperate individuals all with different connections to the industry. Run a search for Littlecats and see what you come up with. Early on in his postings he played this game of posting under multiple names and was stupid enough to give Deborah permission to link all his posts. Once done he was shocked to discover that he had been exposed. He tried to claim he'd been set up, but his prose and lack of thought shines through in whatever guise he uses. Whatsmore, this is the same guy who when I stopped posting for several months began accusing every poster who shot down his arguments (it isnt hard, he's a moron) of being me. When that got old he began posting under a new name pretending to be me, and having arguments with himself, and still somehow losing. This guy is a mess. I stand by my comments from last night, he's an idiot who couldnt reason his way out of a cardboard box. Keep giving him enough rope, he'll do the damage to himself and tuck his tail and run like he always does.
Yes, I remember this, too. All of The Who's posts were linked up under a single username, and guess what? None of RB's posts were included, just The Who's and a few other names he's been posting under. Hah ha ha. For someone who hates to be linked to his alter-egos, you beat the "RobertBruces Did It" drum pretty hard. Epic lulz.
No problem. The facts are that the admins linked up The Who's posts and they include posts when Who was calling himself "LittleCats." RobertBruce was posting at the same time, but his posts were NOT linked to The Who and LittleCats, therefore RB is not The Who or LittleCats, despite The Who's creation of a poster called "RobertBruces" to try to fool people. Hope this clears it up.
Not to encourage this, or anything. But, what exactly happened when the administrators linked all of thewho’s posts? Did they lay “Littlecat’s” and thewho’s “guest” posts under thewho’s avatar?
Yes, all of his posts as anons were linked up as "LittleCats."
Later, when he chose a new username (TheWho) all of his posts as "LittleCats" were linked up under "TheWho" as well.
Funny thing though, none of RobertBruce's posts linked up to "LittleCats" or "TheWho" which means, obviously, that TheWho and LittleCats are the same person, but neither of them is RobertBruce. A few days ago, TheWho created a new username "RobertBruces" and made some phony post about how he is RobertBruce, too, but if you read it, it clearly says "RobertBruces" with an "s" on the end.
Now TheWho is posting anon and calling Ginger a liar. Which is funny, because he actually asked to have his posts linked up which was a lot of work for Ginger, but when he found that all of his anon posts became traceable to him he got upset and now says Ginger is a liar. Nice guy, huh?
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 06:37:46 PM
The time line sort of fits.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 06:38:21 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Oops! The Who caught lying again. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13598&p=167838&hilit=littlecats#p167862)
Some time ago The Who's posts were linked up under his username. Starngely, RB was posting at the same time period, but none of RB's posts showed up under The Who's user name.
Only The Who's posts under his various names, none of which were RB, BTW were tied together. If RB ever posted, even one time, from the same network as The who, all of his posts would be tied together with Who's. But, they weren't.
This hurts, Who. Your ruse is now permanently disabled. Too bad. I enjoyed watching you squirm, but now you'll have to find some new meme to hammer on...
Here, check it out for yourself. TheWho=LittleCats=RobertBruces, but neither TheWho or LittleCats=RobertBruce.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 06:40:06 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
I am assuming that RobertBruce took on TheWho name shortly after the Littlecats name because he wanted to troll dysfunction Junction an ex HLA staff person.
The time line sort of fits.
But for this to be true, you have to call Ginger a liar. Are you going to do that again? C'mon, just say it. If you won't, it's obviously you lying. That plus all of the historical record showing your lies.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 06:43:44 PM
He just didn't like the results, so he's been railing (flailing?) about it for going on four years now.
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 06:47:55 PM
But what we do know is:
See RobertBruce Live (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=7a38195afe127c2d46d877c9e825ffc2&sid=7a38195afe127c2d46d877c9e825ffc2#p334604)
Lets start there! Its always good to start with what we know.
Personally I think littlecats is another RobertBruce creation, but we will have to wait and see on that.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 06:49:39 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Check it outhere where he signs "LittleCats" under TheWho's avatar, edited the post later as TheWho and admits he asked Ginger to link his posts. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13598&p=167838&hilit=littlecats#p167887)
He just didn't like the results, so he's been railing (flailing?) about it for going on four years now.
EDIT: FIVE years.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 07:06:51 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
I am assuming that RobertBruce took on TheWho name shortly after the Littlecats name because he wanted to troll dysfunction Junction an ex HLA staff person.
The time line sort of fits.
Nah, that's not the case. I had a friendly relationship with Robert for a while before TheWho came aboard and started posting first as Little Cats and then later as The Who. I know Robert personally, have an amiable relationship with him and he, for sure, is not TheWho.
The anonymous poster claiming that is actually the disembodied voice of TheWho, who is now reduced to straight-up trolling and doesn't even try to make a cogent point or argument about anything. He has given up completely due to the fact that a few lads and lasses here have totally destroyed him rhetorically and logically. Now he's just an angry guy with a keyboard and nothing better to do.
Have fun with your pet, kids!
@TheWho...That's pretty low, even for you, to accuse Ginger of being a liar. She's given you this forum to say whatever you want for a few years now, and you repay her by calling her a liar? Come on, Who. At least have the decency to say that she's not a liar and that you're just playing around with Robert. What did Ginger do to you to deserve that kind of treatment? It's not right and if you had feelings (which I suspect you don't) then you would at least apologize for that remark.
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 07:07:25 PM
See RobertBruce Live (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=7a38195afe127c2d46d877c9e825ffc2&sid=7a38195afe127c2d46d877c9e825ffc2#p334604)
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
We know you have been wrong. The question is why would you create a character which would make fun of fellow survivors? You ridiculed us and our stories for the sake of humor or getting back at Dysfunction Junction and HLA. You are a sick person RobertBruce. I am glad you finally admitted it in the post below, but that doesnt excuse your actions and efforts to distance yourself from responsibility.
See RobertBruce Live (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=7a38195afe127c2d46d877c9e825ffc2&sid=7a38195afe127c2d46d877c9e825ffc2#p334604)
If Ginger feels insulted, she can easily look at the ip addresses and fugure out who said it. But I doubt she is even insterested in the trolling.
Now back to figuring out how many other names RobertBruce has been posting under... so far we have Little cats, TheWho and RobertBruces... can we add Dysfunction Junction? That would be interesting.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 07:17:39 PM
@TheWho (anon "Robert Did It" poster :roflmao: )...Why would you not at least take the opportunity to say "sorry" to Ginger for calling her a liar? I see you love to fuck with Robert, and that's fine if that's what you want to do, it doesn't seem to bother him too much, but why muddy Ginger's name? She has been really good to you when nobody else was and this is the thanks you give her. Not good, buddy. Not good at all.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 07:20:31 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
We know you have been wrong. The question is why would you create a character which would make fun of fellow survivors? You ridiculed us and our stories for the sake of humor or getting back at Dysfunction Junction and HLA. You are a sick person RobertBruce. I am glad you finally admitted it in the post below, but that doesnt excuse your actions and efforts to distance yourself from responsibility.
See RobertBruce Live (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=7a38195afe127c2d46d877c9e825ffc2#p334604)
So, you're a survivor? Which program? You've been hard at it here for about a week. Maybe we can help you get over your anger at the program and Robert. Which one were you in?
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 07:23:40 PM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Ugh. There really is no hope for this fellow. The "programs" broke up his marriage and led to the death of one of his kids and still doesn't get it. "Some people you just can't reach."
I only do dogs remember? woof, woof. Its me Bruce. Sorry I trolled you all those years and made you look foolish, but I was taking my anger out on you for my time in HLA. I retired TheWhos name to Ursus and now just post under RobertBruce or as a "Guest". Can we be friends. I am being attacked so badly that I need someone to post in my defense.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 07:26:01 PM
"Me so angry. Me use internet. Me pick on abused kids. Me feel better. Me still lonely."
Post by: RobertBruce on June 30, 2009, 07:35:52 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2009, 07:40:05 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
This is seriously better than "The Hangover". :roflmao:
If you are a douchebag,, maybe.
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 07:45:41 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"We know you have been wrong. The question is why would you create a character which would make fun of fellow survivors? You ridiculed us and our stories for the sake of humor or getting back at Dysfunction Junction and HLA. You are a sick person RobertBruce. I am glad you finally admitted it in the post below, but that doesnt excuse your actions and efforts to distance yourself from responsibility.
See RobertBruce Live (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=7a38195afe127c2d46d877c9e825ffc2#p334604)
If Ginger feels insulted, she can easily look at the ip addresses and fugure out who said it. But I doubt she is even insterested in the trolling.
Now back to figuring out how many other names RobertBruce has been posting under... so far we have Little cats, TheWho and RobertBruces... can we add Dysfunction Junction? That would be interesting.
Notice how this troll immediately responded to being called "TheWho"??
EDIT: Not anymore!
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2009, 08:07:21 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Notice how this troll immediately responded to being called "TheWho"??
No, not really, I can't imagine anybody else did or cares You must realize you are the only one who is following the minutia of the bullshit in this thread? If not. then who is the real dum-dum in this thread?
Post by: Troll Control on June 30, 2009, 08:44:36 PM
Hmmmmmmm....
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 09:36:21 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Interesting (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13598&p=167838&hilit=littlecats#p167885)
Hmmmmmmm....
Whoa, good find, so Bruce was thewho and littlecats then. Is RobertBruce also dysfunction Junction? They seem to come out about the same time and stick up for each other.
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2009, 09:45:10 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2009, 09:46:12 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 30, 2009, 09:50:16 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on June 30, 2009, 10:03:45 PM
Quote
Delete messageQuote messagecurrent nonsense
Sent: Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:24 am
From: RobertBruce
To: TheWho
I have no desire to aide you in derailing yet another conversation with your trolling, yet your idiocy and drama queen antics shouldn't be unanswered.
"""This is a protected forum where everyone can communicate/ discuss without having to worry about someone coming along and tossing in a new idea or two which could be tragic and expose you to a new perspective. If anyone gets a notion to start thinking independently they will be quickly brought to center and their post will be deleted by the moderator?it?s a group think area without any outside interference?hell even the trolls go thru special training before they can enter"""""
You are a troll, seriously come down off the cross and stop trying to play the downtrodden hero. People don't listen to you because youve destroyed your credibility.
Your routine is as follows:
Make a bold outlandish statement that has no basis in reality, or come to an unfounded conclusion because you weren't paying close enough attention.
When questioned on the matter or asked to provide a basis you generally claim others are not held to the same standards, even if they are.
Begin repeating the same nonsense over and over and over and over and over and over again in the hopes that someone will believe you.
It's at this point generally someone proves you wrong.
You then engage in a back and forth with the person usually attempting to change your original claim by varying degrees.
During this exchange you ignore any and all questions which you find too difficult to answer or will prove you to be incorrect.
You then make something up as a means of distracting from the original issue and attempt to grille the person on the issue that never really existed to begin with.
You around this point give up and claim youre being attacked and or trolled. You then move on to another thread and repeat the same process all over again hoping everyone will forget about the previous topic.
You've done the same exact thing time and time again. No one wants to talk to you because there's no real point. Youve made it clear on the boards you arent interested in learning the truth about these places, you dismiss peoples claims of being abused, you don't back up your own claims yet you insist that others do, you refuse to acknowledge when youve been proven wrong (although you claim to be willing to do so), your arrogance knows no bounds, If this is how you conduct yourself in your day to day life I can assure you everyone you know hates you.
If you would simply learn to engage in civil discourse with people despite having a differing view point things would go much smoother for you.
Stop behaving as if your limited experience makes you an expert on the field.
Stop refusing to back up your own claims yet insisting that others back up theirs.
Stop making blanket statements that deal with programs you know nothing about.
Answer people's questions.
Stop making things up about people when you get painted into a corner.
Acknowledge when youve been proven wrong (it happens often enough)
Stop coming to unfounded conclusions before youve examined all the facts.
Stop claiming to be attacked or trolled everytime some disagrees with you or proves you wrong.
Stop making vauge statements that allow you a back door out when you get confronted on them.
Stop dismissing peoples claims of abuse.
If you could manage that and could stick to facts people would be alot more accepting of you no matter what your view point was.
I honestly dont believe you can handle that, I'd like to see you for once prove me wrong.
Oh and one more thing.
""""This is a protected forum where everyone can communicate/ discuss without having to worry about someone coming along and tossing in a new idea or two which could be tragic and expose you to a new perspective. If anyone gets a notion to start thinking independently they will be quickly brought to center and their post will be deleted by the moderator?it?s a group think area without any outside interference?hell even the trolls go thru special training before they can enter""""
What youre describing is the exact kind of environment that many of us had to suffer though in these programs. Ask your daughter if it's an accurate description of her time spent at either of her two programs.
RobertBruce
phpBB Prolific contributor
Posts: 3154
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:45 am
Private messageE-mail
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 10:18:25 PM
Quick Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=851f63047f59292ddf4416cb17b73060&sid=851f63047f59292ddf4416cb17b73060#p334604)
Lets start there! Its always good to start with what we know.
Personally I think littlecats is another RobertBruce creation, but we will have to wait and see on that.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 30, 2009, 10:23:58 PM
Quote
Wow. thats alot of work putting that all together Bruce. You should try to focus on the discussion at hand though
That is the discussion at hand. Besides, I've always been willing to do a little extra work to expose the truth about people.
Post by: TheWho on June 30, 2009, 10:58:32 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
QuoteWow. thats alot of work putting that all together Bruce. You should try to focus on the discussion at hand though
That is the discussion at hand. Besides, I've always been willing to do a little extra work to expose the truth about people.
You seem to be much better after posting that. If its good for you keep posting I always say, transfer your entire PM account out here.
Post by: RobertBruce on June 30, 2009, 11:48:38 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 01, 2009, 12:37:58 AM
Post by: Anonymous on July 01, 2009, 01:07:02 AM
Quote from: "My name is Robert Bruce. I work as a gay escort and will cram my tongue in your tight little ass."
Robert Bruce should be thrown in a North Korean prison camp.
Just so we're clear here: RobertBruce already attended a program which borrows techniques from "a North Korean prison camp"; it's called HLA. If you're having a meltdown for other reasons.........carry on!
Post by: Anonymous on July 01, 2009, 02:29:45 AM
Quote from: "TheWho"
That is true!! I started smoking pot in high school and after 3 years I moved onto Mescaline (brown organic rocks!!). I think the pot raised my awareness and made me smart enough to realize that I needed to move onto better stuff. I still smoke pot once in a while, but after I wake up, some days, and rmember I blew my paycheck on coke I feel really stupid. Maybe I should stick with pot and work on getting my G.E.D. I wish more people would write articles like that, it makes me feel better about my choices and shit.
Thanks for the post
What a butt plug. If my dad had a great white whale of a jones driving him Ahab to troll fornits whilst geeked to the tits & going through chemically induced Multiple Personality Disorder, I'd kill myself too.
We (along with your ex wife and remaining kids) beseech Almighty Gawd to dispatch you to your Eternal Damnation through a death befitting of your life, like auto-erotic asphyxiation. The Who and Kung Fu, both snuffed whilst rubbing one out in a closet with clothes pins on their nipples and nutbags.
Post by: Anonymous on July 01, 2009, 03:20:26 AM
Quote from: "TheWho"
If you dont care to have me as part of your discussion, be up front with me, I will go away.
http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13598&hilit=littlecats&start=90#p167874
Okay. Go away.
These old posts are hilarious. Deborah consistently pwned whootie and made him cry like a homo with a broken heart. She kinked up his Trolling 101 lessons by calling him out on his anonymous sock puppet postings, his straw men, his overall bullshit. Whootie revealed his true essence when Deborah chumped him: the Infantile Bitch. Whooter never got over being very publicly castrated and humiliated by Deborah, he cried like a pussy incessantly about his "rights". He was still spitting venom at Deborah long after she quit posting. Deborah is a first class researcher, if anyone knows who Porkpie is, it's her. She always had his number.
Post by: TheWho on July 01, 2009, 07:21:37 AM
These were the seeds which bore the hostility towards DJ and Deborah and eventually spilled over to abusing all fellow survivors here on the board. TheWho character became his ass hole side and allowed him to release his anger and wrath on people without taking accountability.I think now that the cat is out of the bag (or should I say "littlecats" ) he wishes he could take it back because he is not getting the compassion and understanding from everyone like he thought he would.
Bruce Finally comes out and says:
My Story Part 1 (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=73f58250786e8286b5cea15a2b92b575&sid=73f58250786e8286b5cea15a2b92b575#p334604)
TheWho and I are one and the same.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 08:53:25 AM
Quote from: "ploot"
Quote from: "TheWho"
If you dont care to have me as part of your discussion, be up front with me, I will go away.
http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13598&hilit=littlecats&start=90#p167874
Okay. Go away.
These old posts are hilarious. Deborah consistently pwned whootie and made him cry like a homo with a broken heart. She kinked up his Trolling 101 lessons by calling him out on his anonymous sock puppet postings, his straw men, his overall bullshit. Whootie revealed his true essence when Deborah chumped him: the Infantile Bitch. Whooter never got over being very publicly castrated and humiliated by Deborah, he cried like a pussy incessantly about his "rights". He was still spitting venom at Deborah long after she quit posting. Deborah is a first class researcher, if anyone knows who Porkpie is, it's her. She always had his number.
So true. And to see him still screaming "My vagina hurts!" several years later is just precious!
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 08:58:40 AM
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 09:03:46 AM
Quote from: "TheWho"
TheWho character became his ass hole side and allowed him to release his anger and wrath on people without taking accountability.
A short narrative of how TheWho was spawned by a lame-ass call center worker from Lowell, Mass. who's son offed himself after ASR. So, Who, should we assume now that you just have a lot of anger and resentment about your choice to have your kid killed and you use TheWho character do let off steam and gay angst? He does reveal alot about himself here. He just doesn't realize that this is all projection and transference. Very, very strange dude.
You know what I love about this guy? His solution to being in a hole is to keep digging. He's augured himself so deep in the turf, only his gay-hating (and secretly loving) mouth is above grade.
Post by: Anonymous on July 01, 2009, 09:08:39 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TheWho"TheWho character became his ass hole side and allowed him to release his anger and wrath on people without taking accountability.
A short narrative of how TheWho was spawned by a lame-ass call center worker from Lowell, Mass. who's son offed himself after ASR. So, Who, should we assume now that you just have a lot of anger and resentment about your choice to have your kid killed and you use TheWho character do let off steam and gay angst? He does reveal alot about himself here. He just doesn't realize that this is all projection and transference. Very, very strange dude.
You know what I love about this guy? His solution to being in a hole is to keep digging. He's augured himself so deep in the turf, only his gay-hating (and secretly loving) mouth is above grade.
How do you know his kid killed himself and that he's a call center worker? I am really curious? Are you some super-hacker? Can I hire you to do my bidding? :notworthy: ^-^
Post by: Anonymous on July 01, 2009, 09:34:21 AM
Post by: Anonymous on July 01, 2009, 09:47:58 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
I wouldn’t be too tough on the guy. You have to remember Bruce was still working through the difficulty of his time at HLA and was just getting comfortable with posting as RobertBruce when he took on TheWho name. He had a lot of hostility towards Dysfunction Junction because he was staff and openly posting in the HLA forum which he felt comfortable with. So DJ was interfering with his space and being a staff person to boot drove him to say a few things he regrets. Deborah was a moderator on the forum and often took DJ’s side on many issues which rubbed Bruce the wrong way.
These were the seeds which bore the hostility towards DJ and Deborah and eventually spilled over to abusing all fellow survivors here on the board. TheWho character became his ass hole side and allowed him to release his anger and wrath on people without taking accountability.I think now that the cat is out of the bag (or should I say "littlecats" ) he wishes he could take it back because he is not getting the compassion and understanding from everyone like he thought he would.
Bruce Finally comes out and says:
My Story Part 1 (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=73f58250786e8286b5cea15a2b92b575&sid=73f58250786e8286b5cea15a2b92b575#p334604)
TheWho and I are one and the same.
You and reality are far removed, old bitch.
Just wanted to make sure it was you, who fish. I knew that would piss you off, you predictable bitch. You do tricks so well, we'll put you in a car with the other little clowns and we'll have a circus. Deborah must have made you drink an extra dozen PBR's on some occasions for you to still whinge and bristle. Did your wife leave after one of your drunken screaming-idiot rages directed at a computer monitor? DJ made you look like a dumbass too. You had to apologize to him. I'm going to pull that apology out of the old thread and put it up here so you can choke on it. DJ and Deborah are your moral and intellectual betters and they spanked your monkey ass in the public forum. Epic fail on your part, and you at least learned not to get too deeply into what you know nothing about.
Three years later, you still flash red when you remember having your ass handed to you on a forum. It speaks volumes about your mental health and its still good for a laugh at your expense.
You lameass telemarketer.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 09:53:08 AM
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 09:54:51 AM
Quote
You and reality are far removed, old bitch.
Just wanted to make sure it was you, who fish. I knew that would piss you off, you predictable bitch. You do tricks so well, we'll put you in a car with the other little clowns and we'll have a circus. Deborah must have made you drink an extra dozen PBR's on some occasions for you to still whinge and bristle. Did your wife leave after one of your drunken screaming-idiot rages directed at a computer monitor? DJ made you look like a dumbass too. You had to apologize to him. I'm going to pull that apology out of the old thread and put it up here so you can choke on it. DJ and Deborah are your moral and intellectual betters and they spanked your monkey ass in the public forum. Epic fail on your part, and you at least learned not to get too deeply into what you know nothing about.
Three years later, you still flash red when you remember having your ass handed to you on a forum. It speaks volumes about your mental health and its still good for a laugh at your expense.
:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 09:59:17 AM
Quote from: "Ken Huey cheated on Robert Bruce!"
Robert "I'll lick your balls and sniff your shit pipe" Bruce could represent fornits at the NATSAP conference.
He doesn't even try to make apoint anymore. He's just a mindless, witless, obviously drunken troll with serious issues from repressing his homosexuality.
Just think for a moment: this is the type of person who works for the 'teen help' industry. Imagine how TheWho would indulge his homosexual fantasies on your helpless kid in a broom closet. Seriously, think about it because this guy is perfect example of the mentality.
Post by: TheWho on July 01, 2009, 10:54:12 AM
Quote from: "Disbelief"
Is RobertBruce really TheWho???
Seems that way, Ever since RobertBruce came out and admitted he was TheWho everyone and his brother has been searching for past posts to see what he was up to all those years. So far they uncovered he has been posting under several other names too.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 12:07:01 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
This is what TheWho has been reduced to:Quote from: "Ken Huey cheated on Robert Bruce!"Robert "I'll lick your balls and sniff your shit pipe" Bruce could represent fornits at the NATSAP conference.
He doesn't even try to make apoint anymore. He's just a mindless, witless, obviously drunken troll with serious issues from repressing his homosexuality.
Just think for a moment: this is the type of person who works for the 'teen help' industry. Imagine how TheWho would indulge his homosexual fantasies on your helpless kid in a broom closet. Seriously, think about it because this guy is perfect example of the mentality.
To think that this man views himself as some sort of respectable, morally upright fellow is a joke. How can he be "normal" in daily life and have this really sick side of his personality that he expresses here?
This, in my opinion, is man with a serious personality disorder at the least and at worst someone who just hasn't acted on his aggressive homosexual pedophile fantasies yet. But that could happen. When one feels confident being aberrent in anonymity, it's only a short leap to real predatory behavior, especially if it could be done without exposing his identity (like at night, with a ski mask, outside a daycare). I shudder to think that this person has any contact with children, because he's clearly unhinged.
Anon is right, parents. TheWho is the type of person who would seek out an environment where he has full control over children and can cast doubt on his victims' credibility, that is, a 'Specialty School" or the like. Very dangerous.
EDIT: The picture is sooo clear now.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 12:27:27 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 12:29:52 PM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Quote from: "Guest"This is what TheWho has been reduced to:Quote from: "Ken Huey cheated on Robert Bruce!"Robert "I'll lick your balls and sniff your shit pipe" Bruce could represent fornits at the NATSAP conference.
He doesn't even try to make apoint anymore. He's just a mindless, witless, obviously drunken troll with serious issues from repressing his homosexuality.
Just think for a moment: this is the type of person who works for the 'teen help' industry. Imagine how TheWho would indulge his homosexual fantasies on your helpless kid in a broom closet. Seriously, think about it because this guy is perfect example of the mentality.
Good armchair analysis, anon. To think that this man views himself as some sort of respectable, morally upright fellow is a joke. How can he be "normal" in daily life and have this really sick side of his personality that he expresses here?
This, in my opinion, is man with a serious personality disorder at the least and at worst someone who just hasn't acted on his aggressive homosexual pedophile fantasies yet. But that could happen. When one feels confident being aberrent in anonymity, it's only a short leap to real predatory behavior, especially if it could be done without exposing his identity (like at night, with a ski mask, outside a daycare). I shudder to think that this person has any contact with children, because he's clearly unhinged.
Anon is right, parents. TheWho is the type of person who would seek out an environment where he has full control over children and can cast doubt on his victims' credibility, that is, a 'Specialty School" or the like. Very dangerous.
Yes, it is scary. He's like a kid who likes to start fires and torture animals that you know will become a serial rapist or killer or sexual sadist. He's on the brink.
Post by: TheWho on July 01, 2009, 12:36:13 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Disbelief"Is RobertBruce really TheWho???
Seems that way, Ever since RobertBruce came out and admitted he was TheWho everyone and his brother has been searching for past posts to see what he was up to all those years. So far they uncovered he has been posting under several other names too.
Hmmm, DJ has a point. What if RobertBruce is expressing this sickness of his outside of the internet where he is not just using aliases like TheWho and Little cats. At least if Bruce is contained to forums he cannot really hurt anyone. If Dysfunctions diagnosis is correct Bruce could be a danger to neighborhood children as well as family members.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 12:44:18 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"Quote from: "Guest"This is what TheWho has been reduced to:Quote from: "Ken Huey cheated on Robert Bruce!"Robert "I'll lick your balls and sniff your shit pipe" Bruce could represent fornits at the NATSAP conference.
He doesn't even try to make apoint anymore. He's just a mindless, witless, obviously drunken troll with serious issues from repressing his homosexuality.
Just think for a moment: this is the type of person who works for the 'teen help' industry. Imagine how TheWho would indulge his homosexual fantasies on your helpless kid in a broom closet. Seriously, think about it because this guy is perfect example of the mentality.
Good armchair analysis, anon. To think that this man views himself as some sort of respectable, morally upright fellow is a joke. How can he be "normal" in daily life and have this really sick side of his personality that he expresses here?
This, in my opinion, is man with a serious personality disorder at the least and at worst someone who just hasn't acted on his aggressive homosexual pedophile fantasies yet. But that could happen. When one feels confident being aberrent in anonymity, it's only a short leap to real predatory behavior, especially if it could be done without exposing his identity (like at night, with a ski mask, outside a daycare). I shudder to think that this person has any contact with children, because he's clearly unhinged.
Anon is right, parents. TheWho is the type of person who would seek out an environment where he has full control over children and can cast doubt on his victims' credibility, that is, a 'Specialty School" or the like. Very dangerous.
Yes, it is scary. He's like a kid who likes to start fires and torture animals that you know will become a serial rapist or killer or sexual sadist. He's on the brink.
Only he was talking about you and not RobertBruce, Who. Your trolling skills are at heir lowest point ever and you had virtually no skills to begin with.
Post by: Anonymous on July 01, 2009, 12:51:54 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Yes, it is scary. He's like a kid who likes to start fires and torture animals that you know will become a serial rapist or killer or sexual sadist. He's on the brink.
Well. That's what the who thought about his son and his reasoning for sending the boy to a program. The who's son hanged himself, which is why the who is hanging around here.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 12:53:03 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Man, TheWho is really pushing the gay slurs, but also letting us know he fantasies of being gay. He seems very conflicted over his sexuality. On one hand he deameans the idea of homosexuality and on the other he puts out there his desire for anal sex with people (and dogs) and to lick boys' bottoms. How very weird. No wonder his kid was so screwed up and his wife left him flat!
Yep, once you put the pieces together TheWho is a Frankenstein's monster of repressed pedophilic homosexual sadism. Astonishing. Wonder if his wife left him when he started rim-jobbing her while sobbing and muttering "But I love you, Robert..."
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 01:01:14 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 01, 2009, 01:10:15 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Man, TheWho is really pushing the gay slurs, but also letting us know he fantasies of being gay. He seems very conflicted over his sexuality. On one hand he deameans the idea of homosexuality and on the other he puts out there his desire for anal sex with people (and dogs) and to lick boys' bottoms. How very weird. No wonder his kid was so screwed up and his wife left him flat!
Yep, once you put the pieces together TheWho is a Frankenstein's monster of repressed pedophilic homosexual sadism. Astonishing. Wonder if his wife left him when he started rim-jobbing her while sobbing and muttering "But I love you, Robert..."
I am confused, Bruce calls his wife Robert? Is this how he came up with his user name, Does anyone know if his real first name is Bruce?
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 01:17:03 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
TheWho is on his half-hour unpaid lunch at the call center until 1:00pm. He'll be by in a minute to eviscerate himself again.
Right on time! Back to his cube by 1 and check his voicemails, hit the "nto ready" button on his phone and post some garbage. What I really like is the predictability of it. :rofl:
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 01:19:01 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"TheWho is on his half-hour unpaid lunch at the call center until 1:00pm. He'll be by in a minute to eviscerate himself again.
Right on time! Back to his cube by 1 and check his voicemails, hit the "not ready" button on his phone and post some garbage. What I really like is the predictability of it. :rofl:
EDIT: no wonder he always says everyone else is a "call center worker". Makes sense.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 01:20:49 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Man, TheWho is really pushing the gay slurs, but also letting us know he fantasies of being gay. He seems very conflicted over his sexuality. On one hand he deameans the idea of homosexuality and on the other he puts out there his desire for anal sex with people (and dogs) and to lick boys' bottoms. How very weird. No wonder his kid was so screwed up and his wife left him flat!
Yep, once you put the pieces together TheWho is a Frankenstein's monster of repressed pedophilic homosexual sadism. Astonishing. Wonder if his wife left him when he started rim-jobbing her while sobbing and muttering "But I love you, Robert..."
This is HILARIOUS. But also strange, sad and disgusting, just like TheWho!
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 01:30:39 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 02:02:33 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
TheWho will be back in a few minutes. While he was "Not Ready" in the call queue, customer calls built up and he has to open a few service tickets before he can come back and reply. Just give him a few minutes, folks. Freak show is on the way.
"Good Afternoon! Customer Service! My name is The Who, err...MikeThompson, uh... Casual Observer, no, ummm Littlecats...wait, my name is RobertBruces, uhhhh...can you hold, please?"
I bet, at some point, while he was filling out a service ticket, he THOUGHT his cursor was in the Fornits dialog box, but it was accidentally in the service ticket dialog box and he paged out a call for "ball-licking and ass-sniffing". The service guy is going to be like "WTF???"
His boss and coworkers are probably riding him constanly for the past week for not taking his share of the calls. He's BUSY, people! He's got SODOMY to fantasize about. No time for work!
Post by: TheWho on July 01, 2009, 02:04:11 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 02:11:44 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 02:12:34 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"TheWho will be back in a few minutes. While he was "Not Ready" in the call queue, customer calls built up and he has to open a few service tickets before he can come back and reply. Just give him a few minutes, folks. Freak show is on the way.
"Good Afternoon! Customer Service! My name is The Who, err...MikeThompson, uh... Casual Observer, no, ummm Littlecats...wait, my name is RobertBruces, uhhhh...can you hold, please?"
I bet, at some point, while he was filling out a service ticket, he THOUGHT his cursor was in the Fornits dialog box, but it was accidentally in the service ticket dialog box and he paged out a call for "ball-licking and ass-sniffing". The service guy is going to be like "WTF???"
His boss and coworkers are probably riding him constanly for the past week for not taking his share of the calls. He's BUSY, people! He's got SODOMY to fantasize about. No time for work!
Nasty, but true.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 02:37:41 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Hmmm, DJ has a point. What if RobertBruce is expressing this sickness of his outside of the internet where he is not just using aliases like TheWho and Little cats. At least if Bruce is contained to forums he cannot really hurt anyone. If Dysfunctions diagnosis is correct Bruce could be a danger to neighborhood children as well as family members.
It sickens me to think that this trolling is all just TheWho's transeference of his own twisted ideations onto RB. If you read TheWho's posts and understand he's revealing his innermost problems and thoughts it's very disturbing.
Post by: TheWho on July 01, 2009, 03:01:48 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TheWho"Hmmm, DJ has a point. What if RobertBruce is expressing this sickness of his outside of the internet where he is not just using aliases like TheWho and Little cats. At least if Bruce is contained to forums he cannot really hurt anyone. If Dysfunctions diagnosis is correct Bruce could be a danger to neighborhood children as well as family members.
It sickens me to think that this trolling is all just TheWho's transeference of his own twisted ideations onto RB. If you read TheWho's posts and understand he's revealing his innermost problems and thoughts it's very disturbing.
It seemed to all come out under TheWho postings. Somehow I think this was healing for RobertBruce to get this sickness out this way. But it has continued for years. Lots of self hatred is evident.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 03:05:52 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 03:07:35 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "TheWho"Hmmm, DJ has a point. What if RobertBruce is expressing this sickness of his outside of the internet where he is not just using aliases like TheWho and Little cats. At least if Bruce is contained to forums he cannot really hurt anyone. If Dysfunctions diagnosis is correct Bruce could be a danger to neighborhood children as well as family members.
It sickens me to think that this trolling is all just TheWho's transeference of his own twisted ideations onto RB. If you read TheWho's posts and understand he's revealing his innermost problems and thoughts it's very disturbing.
It seemed to all come out under TheWho postings. Lots of self hatred is evident.
And he admits it too. Sick puppy.
Post by: TheWho on July 01, 2009, 03:32:08 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
But you are TheWho. TheWho's postings are yours, not RobertBruce's. Why would you say your posts are RobertBruce's posts? Makes no sense.
Its confusing I know. You have to go back about 10 pages to understand. But believe me it is not worth it.
This link should help:
Confession Part I (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=dda01cf10112982514bfb186231b04b9&sid=dda01cf10112982514bfb186231b04b9#p334604)
Post by: Anonymous on July 01, 2009, 03:37:28 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "TheWho"Hmmm, DJ has a point. What if RobertBruce is expressing this sickness of his outside of the internet where he is not just using aliases like TheWho and Little cats. At least if Bruce is contained to forums he cannot really hurt anyone. If Dysfunctions diagnosis is correct Bruce could be a danger to neighborhood children as well as family members.
It sickens me to think that this trolling is all just TheWho's transeference of his own twisted ideations onto RB. If you read TheWho's posts and understand he's revealing his innermost problems and thoughts it's very disturbing.
It seemed to all come out under TheWho postings. Somehow I think this was healing for RobertBruce to get this sickness out this way. But it has continued for years. Lots of self hatred is evident.
Yeah...riiiiiiiight. The thing is, whootie, RobertBruce's anus does not pucker up and his eyes do not redden with rage when Deborah and DJ are mentioned. You can't allow a mention of your shaming by Deborah, DJ, and even Robert Bruce to be posted without spitting and hissing a defense of yourself and an attack on them. Yes they did make you their bitch, but you should get over yourself and move on. You are only one person though, who. Deb did reduce you to a fucking joke by identifying your anonymous posts and conversations you were having with yourself. You were hanging there with your ass out. You cried, no one cared, and you feel abused. But who: think about all the people Deborah has helped! So what, you were abused - Deborah kept 10? 20? maybe more kids from going to HLA. You have to look at the facts! The positive outweighs the negative!
Where have I heard all this shite before? Oh yeah, it's who's defense of abusive programs. I'll bet you feel that rage in the back of your throat like a hairball rising, "little cats". Speaking of confessions who: how come you didn't even know the name of the program you sent your "daughter" to? You called it "Swift River Academy", you rank amateur.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 03:42:19 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"I personally dont believe every pro kiddie gulag poster on here is Cindy, but that being said he has posted under different usernames or claimed to be seperate individuals all with different connections to the industry. Run a search for Littlecats and see what you come up with. Early on in his postings he played this game of posting under multiple names and was stupid enough to give Deborah permission to link all his posts. Once done he was shocked to discover that he had been exposed. He tried to claim he'd been set up, but his prose and lack of thought shines through in whatever guise he uses. Whatsmore, this is the same guy who when I stopped posting for several months began accusing every poster who shot down his arguments (it isnt hard, he's a moron) of being me. When that got old he began posting under a new name pretending to be me, and having arguments with himself, and still somehow losing. This guy is a mess. I stand by my comments from last night, he's an idiot who couldnt reason his way out of a cardboard box. Keep giving him enough rope, he'll do the damage to himself and tuck his tail and run like he always does.
Yes, I remember this, too. All of The Who's posts were linked up under a single username, and guess what? None of RB's posts were included, just The Who's and a few other names he's been posting under. Hah ha ha. For someone who hates to be linked to his alter-egos, you beat the "RobertBruces Did It" drum pretty hard. Epic lulz.
No problem. The facts are that the admins linked up The Who's posts and they include posts when Who was calling himself "LittleCats." RobertBruce was posting at the same time, but his posts were NOT linked to The Who and LittleCats, therefore RB is not The Who or LittleCats, despite The Who's creation of a poster called "RobertBruces" to try to fool people. Hope this clears it up.
Well I put in the effort to go back and read. It looks like this post you keep linking to is just some sarcasm, but you also altered it quite a bit each time you posted it too. You shouldn't alter people's posts because then people might think that they meant something they didn't mean.Ginger says RobertBruce isn't The Who because their accounts have no data in common at all, but that The Who and Littlecats are the same guy. Thanks for mentioning the answer was there if I read back some pages.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 03:46:31 PM
Quote from: "WHOOBAJOOBAHOLE"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "TheWho"Hmmm, DJ has a point. What if RobertBruce is expressing this sickness of his outside of the internet where he is not just using aliases like TheWho and Little cats. At least if Bruce is contained to forums he cannot really hurt anyone. If Dysfunctions diagnosis is correct Bruce could be a danger to neighborhood children as well as family members.
It sickens me to think that this trolling is all just TheWho's transeference of his own twisted ideations onto RB. If you read TheWho's posts and understand he's revealing his innermost problems and thoughts it's very disturbing.
It seemed to all come out under TheWho postings. Somehow I think this was healing for RobertBruce to get this sickness out this way. But it has continued for years. Lots of self hatred is evident.
Yeah...riiiiiiiight. The thing is, whootie, RobertBruce's anus does not pucker up and his eyes do not redden with rage when Deborah and DJ are mentioned. You can't allow a mention of your shaming by Deborah, DJ, and even Robert Bruce to be posted without spitting and hissing a defense of yourself and an attack on them. Yes they did make you their bitch, but you should get over yourself and move on. You are only one person though, who. Deb did reduce you to a fucking joke by identifying your anonymous posts and conversations you were having with yourself. You were hanging there with your ass out. You cried, no one cared, and you feel abused. But who: think about all the people Deborah has helped! So what, you were abused - Deborah kept 10? 20? maybe more kids from going to HLA. You have to look at the facts! The positive outweighs the negative!
Where have I heard all this shite before? Oh yeah, it's who's defense of abusive programs. I'll bet you feel that rage in the back of your throat like a hairball rising, "little cats". Speaking of confessions who: how come you didn't even know the name of the program you sent your "daughter" to? You called it "Swift River Academy", you rank amateur.
Ouch! Prepare for the hissy fit!
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 03:54:17 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 01, 2009, 04:13:37 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"But you are TheWho. TheWho's postings are yours, not RobertBruce's. Why would you say your posts are RobertBruce's posts? Makes no sense.
Its confusing I know. You have to go back about 10 pages to understand. But believe me it is not worth it.
This link should help:
Confession Part I (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=feecfff67daca196b431281ce5b8b7eb&sid=feecfff67daca196b431281ce5b8b7eb#p334604)
It seems it is this post which generates a flood to cover it up. The truth hurts sometimes. We are waiting for "Confession Part II" Bruce!!
Post by: Anonymous on July 01, 2009, 05:21:23 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"But you are TheWho. TheWho's postings are yours, not RobertBruce's. Why would you say your posts are RobertBruce's posts? Makes no sense.
Its confusing I know. You have to go back about 10 pages to understand. But believe me it is not worth it.
This link should help:
Confession Part I (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=feecfff67daca196b431281ce5b8b7eb#p334604)
It seems it is this post which generates a flood to cover it up. The truth hurts sometimes. We are waiting for "Confession Part II" Bruce!!
Uh-huh. It is almost believable because Robert Bruce always makes the who look like a dick, but a lot of people make the who look like a dick, and he's very capable of making himself look like a dick with absolutely no assistance.
Take a look at the who's profile and see what thread he's been the most active on - is it Aspen/ASR? HLA? Oh, hell no - it's this thread. The narcissistic bastard posted about what really matters to him.
Post by: TheWho on July 01, 2009, 05:40:27 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"But you are TheWho. TheWho's postings are yours, not RobertBruce's. Why would you say your posts are RobertBruce's posts? Makes no sense.
Its confusing I know. You have to go back about 10 pages to understand. But believe me it is not worth it.
This link should help:
Confession Part I (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=feecfff67daca196b431281ce5b8b7eb&sid=a5686b6892cb7a6dfc59c9909b3a1d1f#p334604)
It seems it is this post which generates a flood to cover it up. The truth hurts sometimes. We are waiting for "Confession Part II" Bruce!!
Uh-huh. It is almost believable because Robert Bruce always makes the who look like a dick, but a lot of people make the who look like a dick, and he's very capable of making himself look like a dick with absolutely no assistance.
Take a look at the who's profile and see what thread he's been the most active on - is it Aspen/ASR? HLA? Oh, hell no - it's this thread. The narcissistic bastard posted about what really matters to him.
We all know that TheWho and Bruce are capable of making themselves look like a dick because they are the same... duh!!! What we need are some more examples of how stupid their posts were. Any of them will do... RobertBruce, TheWho, Little Cats, Dysfunction Junction... its all a whoot!!!
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 06:03:06 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"I personally dont believe every pro kiddie gulag poster on here is Cindy, but that being said he has posted under different usernames or claimed to be seperate individuals all with different connections to the industry. Run a search for Littlecats and see what you come up with. Early on in his postings he played this game of posting under multiple names and was stupid enough to give Deborah permission to link all his posts. Once done he was shocked to discover that he had been exposed. He tried to claim he'd been set up, but his prose and lack of thought shines through in whatever guise he uses. Whatsmore, this is the same guy who when I stopped posting for several months began accusing every poster who shot down his arguments (it isnt hard, he's a moron) of being me. When that got old he began posting under a new name pretending to be me, and having arguments with himself, and still somehow losing. This guy is a mess. I stand by my comments from last night, he's an idiot who couldnt reason his way out of a cardboard box. Keep giving him enough rope, he'll do the damage to himself and tuck his tail and run like he always does.
Yes, I remember this, too. All of The Who's posts were linked up under a single username, and guess what? None of RB's posts were included, just The Who's and a few other names he's been posting under. Hah ha ha. For someone who hates to be linked to his alter-egos, you beat the "RobertBruces Did It" drum pretty hard. Epic lulz.
No problem. The facts are that the admins linked up The Who's posts and they include posts when Who was calling himself "LittleCats." RobertBruce was posting at the same time, but his posts were NOT linked to The Who and LittleCats, therefore RB is not The Who or LittleCats, despite The Who's creation of a poster called "RobertBruces" to try to fool people. Hope this clears it up.
Well I put in the effort to go back and read. It looks like this post you keep linking to is just some sarcasm, but you also altered it quite a bit each time you posted it too. You shouldn't alter people's posts because then people might think that they meant something they didn't mean.Ginger says RobertBruce isn't The Who because their accounts have no data in common at all, but that The Who and Littlecats are the same guy. Thanks for mentioning the answer was there if I read back some pages.
Thanks, Guest. You're right it was explained by the moderators.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 06:09:05 PM
Psy, if Ursus says yes, do you think it would be possible to move TheWho's anonymous posts under the account? I don't think it's fair for Ursus not to have access to TheWho's posts in their entirety. He did buy the rights to all of TheWho's postings. What do you think?
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 06:13:58 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Doesn't Ursus own TheWho's account now? Hey, Ursus, would you mind if all of TheWho's new anonymous posts are linked to his user account? I think if you say it's OK, then we should just update the post list of the account so we can get to the bottom of who is Who and who isn't Who. Hey, it's your account and you should be able to see all the posts, right?
Psy, if Ursus says yes, do you think it would be possible to move TheWho's anonymous posts under the account? I don't think it's fair for Ursus not to have access to TheWho's posts in their entirety. He did buy the rights to all of TheWho's postings. What do you think?
This seems fair. TheWho is always acting like he's some great capitalist tycoon, so I know he wouldn't object to this plan because, of course, when Ursus bought the brand, so to say, he did in fact buy all of the rights present and future as any standard business transaction. To cheat Ursus out of the intellectual property he purchased in good faith for a good cause is immoral.
Post by: TheWho on July 01, 2009, 06:15:17 PM
What we do have is a Confession by RobertBruce:
Confession Part I (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=a5686b6892cb7a6dfc59c9909b3a1d1f&sid=a5686b6892cb7a6dfc59c9909b3a1d1f#p334604)
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 06:18:54 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Doesn't Ursus own TheWho's account now? Hey, Ursus, would you mind if all of TheWho's new anonymous posts are linked to his user account? I think if you say it's OK, then we should just update the post list of the account so we can get to the bottom of who is Who and who isn't Who. Hey, it's your account and you should be able to see all the posts, right?
Psy, if Ursus says yes, do you think it would be possible to move TheWho's anonymous posts under the account? I don't think it's fair for Ursus not to have access to TheWho's posts in their entirety. He did buy the rights to all of TheWho's postings. What do you think?
This seems fair. TheWho is always acting like he's some great capitalist tycoon, so I know he wouldn't object to this plan because, of course, when Ursus bought the brand, so to say, he did in fact buy all of the rights present and future as any standard business transaction. To cheat Ursus out of the intellectual property he purchased in good faith for a good cause is immoral.
This is a winner. I say we do it. I want to see The Who panic when his posts joking about anally raping children come up under his avatar. I'm going to PM Psy and make a forceful argument about the business case, which is very stout. Ursus is getting cheated.
Post by: Anonymous on July 01, 2009, 06:19:47 PM
Quote from: "WHOOBAJOOBAHOLE"
Speaking of confessions who: how come you didn't even know the name of the program you sent your "daughter" to? You called it "Swift River Academy", you rank amateur.
NOTE (since I'm sure he won't point this out): the Academy at Swift River used to call itself Swift River Academy several years ago. That'll give you a better time reference.
:D :D
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 06:22:50 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Doesn't Ursus own TheWho's account now? Hey, Ursus, would you mind if all of TheWho's new anonymous posts are linked to his user account? I think if you say it's OK, then we should just update the post list of the account so we can get to the bottom of who is Who and who isn't Who. Hey, it's your account and you should be able to see all the posts, right?
Psy, if Ursus says yes, do you think it would be possible to move TheWho's anonymous posts under the account? I don't think it's fair for Ursus not to have access to TheWho's posts in their entirety. He did buy the rights to all of TheWho's postings. What do you think?
This seems fair. TheWho is always acting like he's some great capitalist tycoon, so I know he wouldn't object to this plan because, of course, when Ursus bought the brand, so to say, he did in fact buy all of the rights present and future as any standard business transaction. To cheat Ursus out of the intellectual property he purchased in good faith for a good cause is immoral.
Yes, I'm sorry TheWho, but you have a valid contract with Ursus. You can't just freelance when you're under contract. Ursus should assert his rights to enforce this contract in full. I'll even pay for the administrative overhead to get it done. Or I'll be happy to donate some jing to the hosting kitty (I and I don't mean Ginger ;) ).
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 06:25:59 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "WHOOBAJOOBAHOLE"Speaking of confessions who: how come you didn't even know the name of the program you sent your "daughter" to? You called it "Swift River Academy", you rank amateur.
NOTE (since I'm sure he won't point this out): the Academy at Swift River used to call itself Swift River Academy several years ago. That'll give you a better time reference.
:D :D
Not true. Only the LLC is called Swift River Academy. The facilty has never been known by that name.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 06:28:58 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Doesn't Ursus own TheWho's account now? Hey, Ursus, would you mind if all of TheWho's new anonymous posts are linked to his user account? I think if you say it's OK, then we should just update the post list of the account so we can get to the bottom of who is Who and who isn't Who. Hey, it's your account and you should be able to see all the posts, right?
Psy, if Ursus says yes, do you think it would be possible to move TheWho's anonymous posts under the account? I don't think it's fair for Ursus not to have access to TheWho's posts in their entirety. He did buy the rights to all of TheWho's postings. What do you think?
This seems fair. TheWho is always acting like he's some great capitalist tycoon, so I know he wouldn't object to this plan because, of course, when Ursus bought the brand, so to say, he did in fact buy all of the rights present and future as any standard business transaction. To cheat Ursus out of the intellectual property he purchased in good faith for a good cause is immoral.
Worth considering for sure. It is a pretty good argument. I don't see anyone objecting.
Post by: Anonymous on July 01, 2009, 06:45:23 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Doesn't Ursus own TheWho's account now? Hey, Ursus, would you mind if all of TheWho's new anonymous posts are linked to his user account? I think if you say it's OK, then we should just update the post list of the account so we can get to the bottom of who is Who and who isn't Who. Hey, it's your account and you should be able to see all the posts, right?:seg2: :seg2: :seg2: :seg2: :seg2: :seg2: :seg2: :seg2: :seg2: :seg2: :seg2: :seg2: :seg2: :seg2: :seg2: :seg2: :seg2: :seg2: :seg2:
Psy, if Ursus says yes, do you think it would be possible to move TheWho's anonymous posts under the account? I don't think it's fair for Ursus not to have access to TheWho's posts in their entirety. He did buy the rights to all of TheWho's postings. What do you think?
Post by: RobertBruce on July 01, 2009, 06:51:08 PM
Random guest, who for some reason seems to support Whooter, why dont you start?
You have nothing to hide right?
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 06:59:53 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 01, 2009, 07:09:18 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Doesn't Ursus own TheWho's account now? Hey, Ursus, would you mind if all of TheWho's new anonymous posts are linked to his user account? I think if you say it's OK, then we should just update the post list of the account so we can get to the bottom of who is Who and who isn't Who. Hey, it's your account and you should be able to see all the posts, right?
Psy, if Ursus says yes, do you think it would be possible to move TheWho's anonymous posts under the account? I don't think it's fair for Ursus not to have access to TheWho's posts in their entirety. He did buy the rights to all of TheWho's postings. What do you think?
This seems fair. TheWho is always acting like he's some great capitalist tycoon, so I know he wouldn't object to this plan because, of course, when Ursus bought the brand, so to say, he did in fact buy all of the rights present and future as any standard business transaction. To cheat Ursus out of the intellectual property he purchased in good faith for a good cause is immoral.
Worth considering for sure. It is a pretty good argument. I don't see anyone objecting.
Exactly. The bidding was on the who's account and it was understood that the who would be gone. Imagine, the who has lied and defaulted on the deal. Ursus, you should look into suing him. You own the entity formerly dba "theWho" which includes all real and intellectual property attached to "theWho". The stilted language, the ellipsis, the "ha, ha, ha", and the whole perverse industry philosophy of the who were purchased by you. He's reneging. He always reneged. Now the reneger is doing business again as the who in all but name.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 07:14:03 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 07:37:03 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Doesn't Ursus own TheWho's account now? Hey, Ursus, would you mind if all of TheWho's new anonymous posts are linked to his user account? I think if you say it's OK, then we should just update the post list of the account so we can get to the bottom of who is Who and who isn't Who. Hey, it's your account and you should be able to see all the posts, right?
Psy, if Ursus says yes, do you think it would be possible to move TheWho's anonymous posts under the account? I don't think it's fair for Ursus not to have access to TheWho's posts in their entirety. He did buy the rights to all of TheWho's postings. What do you think?
This seems fair. TheWho is always acting like he's some great capitalist tycoon, so I know he wouldn't object to this plan because, of course, when Ursus bought the brand, so to say, he did in fact buy all of the rights present and future as any standard business transaction. To cheat Ursus out of the intellectual property he purchased in good faith for a good cause is immoral.
Worth considering for sure. It is a pretty good argument. I don't see anyone objecting.
All I see so far is supportive feedback, so there's no reason not to do it I guess,, I wonder what Deborah would say? It was always funny to watch her tear Whooter into tiny pieces,
Post by: TheWho on July 01, 2009, 07:42:25 PM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Oh, this is precious. This is both legally sound and representative of business orthodoxy. I would like to voice my support for resolving this on the basis of capitalism, as TheWho would have wanted if he were here with us. It absolutely adds value to Fornits while simultaneously honoring the valid contract which bestows upon Ursus full control of TheWho's sum total of products. I like it a lot, people.
Why do you support suing RobertBruce? He gave up the rights to TheWho name and now only has RobertBruce, RobertBruces and LittleCats. Maybe more who knows. He can no longer log in so Ursus has the right to do with it as he wishes. Are you going to sue him for talking about TheWho?
Doesnt make sense to me. Havent seen TheWho post here in awhile.
What is your motive? Are you still pissed that Bruce made a fool out of you while posting as TheWho? You guys should try to work this out off line, in my opinion, before heading to court. Save you both some money.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 07:49:47 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 07:52:37 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"Oh, this is precious. This is both legally sound and representative of business orthodoxy. I would like to voice my support for resolving this on the basis of capitalism, as TheWho would have wanted if he were here with us. It absolutely adds value to Fornits while simultaneously honoring the valid contract which bestows upon Ursus full control of TheWho's sum total of products. I like it a lot, people.
Why do you support suing RobertBruce? He gave up the rights to TheWho name and now only has RobertBruce, RobertBruces and LittleCats. Maybe more who knows. He can no longer log in so Ursus has the right to do with it as he wishes. Are you going to sue him for talking about TheWho?
Doesnt make sense to me. Havent seen TheWho post here in awhile.
What is your motive? Are you still pissed that Bruce made a fool out of you while posting as TheWho? You guys should try to work this out off line, in my opinion, before heading to court. Save you both some money.
Don't see anything about suing here. But he probably wouldn't need to sue cuz the deal is already done. So now let's just hook up all of the posts by the person who has previously posted as The Who.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 07:56:22 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Doesn't Ursus own TheWho's account now? Hey, Ursus, would you mind if all of TheWho's new anonymous posts are linked to his user account? I think if you say it's OK, then we should just update the post list of the account so we can get to the bottom of who is Who and who isn't Who. Hey, it's your account and you should be able to see all the posts, right?
Psy, if Ursus says yes, do you think it would be possible to move TheWho's anonymous posts under the account? I don't think it's fair for Ursus not to have access to TheWho's posts in their entirety. He did buy the rights to all of TheWho's postings. What do you think?
This seems fair. TheWho is always acting like he's some great capitalist tycoon, so I know he wouldn't object to this plan because, of course, when Ursus bought the brand, so to say, he did in fact buy all of the rights present and future as any standard business transaction. To cheat Ursus out of the intellectual property he purchased in good faith for a good cause is immoral.
Totally agree with this. No way The Who would want this settled any other way than by the free market. If he was here he'd say the same.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 07:59:37 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 01, 2009, 08:10:50 PM
This link should help refresh everyones memory on where we are:
Confession Part I (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=470865f36e1b56694b13cd6b58b01374&sid=470865f36e1b56694b13cd6b58b01374#p334604)
Okay, everybody, you can put the torches out now.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 08:14:45 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 08:17:01 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Doesn't Ursus own TheWho's account now? Hey, Ursus, would you mind if all of TheWho's new anonymous posts are linked to his user account? I think if you say it's OK, then we should just update the post list of the account so we can get to the bottom of who is Who and who isn't Who. Hey, it's your account and you should be able to see all the posts, right?
Psy, if Ursus says yes, do you think it would be possible to move TheWho's anonymous posts under the account? I don't think it's fair for Ursus not to have access to TheWho's posts in their entirety. He did buy the rights to all of TheWho's postings. What do you think?
This seems fair. TheWho is always acting like he's some great capitalist tycoon, so I know he wouldn't object to this plan because, of course, when Ursus bought the brand, so to say, he did in fact buy all of the rights present and future as any standard business transaction. To cheat Ursus out of the intellectual property he purchased in good faith for a good cause is immoral.
hey even the "brucie did it guy" want to do this now! it will be his revenge on brucie once and for all,,
Post by: RobertBruce on July 01, 2009, 08:17:52 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on July 01, 2009, 08:18:48 PM
You were right, he didn't notice.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 08:47:47 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Doesn't Ursus own TheWho's account now? Hey, Ursus, would you mind if all of TheWho's new anonymous posts are linked to his user account? I think if you say it's OK, then we should just update the post list of the account so we can get to the bottom of who is Who and who isn't Who. Hey, it's your account and you should be able to see all the posts, right?
Psy, if Ursus says yes, do you think it would be possible to move TheWho's anonymous posts under the account? I don't think it's fair for Ursus not to have access to TheWho's posts in their entirety. He did buy the rights to all of TheWho's postings. What do you think?
This seems fair. TheWho is always acting like he's some great capitalist tycoon, so I know he wouldn't object to this plan because, of course, when Ursus bought the brand, so to say, he did in fact buy all of the rights present and future as any standard business transaction. To cheat Ursus out of the intellectual property he purchased in good faith for a good cause is immoral.
hey even the "brucie did it guy" want to do this now! it will be his revenge on brucie once and for all,,
Cool. The "RobertBruces Did It" guy and the actual RobertBruce agree on this one thing anyway. Let's get it going then.
Post by: TheWho on July 01, 2009, 08:53:57 PM
The RobertBruce Confession (after he lost his backbone) (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=470865f36e1b56694b13cd6b58b01374&sid=470865f36e1b56694b13cd6b58b01374#p334604)
"Last edited by RobertBruce on 01 Jul 2009, 23:25, edited 1 time in total. "
I still have the unedited version for those of you who haven’t read it yet.
RobertBruce wrote: sigh*
I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho and I are one and the same. I created the character a few years ago as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea. I wanted to give all the anti-program posters an opportunity to showcase everything that's sick and wrong with this industry. What better way to do that then to actually have someone who was so clearly brainwashed, and believed in this nonsense so ardently that nothing could disuade him from the truth. An absolute moron who couldnt recognize the truth even when it was staring him straight in the face, or just wouldn't. A complete jackass who could never stand to acknowledge when wrong, and he always is. Before you get too upset with me think about what my creating thewho has done for us. Under his guise I would repeatedly make ridiculus claims, or refute obvious facts, only to then turn around and have the proof provided. Remember my numbers concerning the deaths occuring in these places? How I refused to add multitudes of kids who had been murdered, thus drawing more attention to the ones who had. How many more names did the rest of you post on here in an effot to prove "me" wrong? Or how I as thewho kept declaring these places "safe" despite the fact that he refused to include abuse. Remember when I had him claim 60 kids a week were being killed in public schools? Making nonsensical claims about public schools that had no bearing in reality. All the times I had him dismiss or ridicule kids who were abused. I am sorry for that, it was difficult, I know everyone of you was truly abused, and tortured. I wasn't exaggerating by any means when I mentioned how many parents pm'd me as RobertBruce thanking me for shutting thewho up. At the same time I can't tell you how many programmies, and child abuse advocates pm'd me as thewho, giving me pointers, telling me what they believed was inside information on us, and giving me inside information on themselves, believing it was all in confidence. CCM Girl, Function Junction, Anne, the list goes on and on, sorry kids your secrets were very much put to good use. In truth thewho is based on a real person, and he really is as much of a stupid jackass as I made him out to be. In any event I hope you all understand my motivations, it was never to trick anyone, and I'm sorry if I offended any of you. My feelings against these kiddie prisons is that they are all just that, and they serve no good for anyone but greedy child abusers.
Post by: RobertBruce on July 01, 2009, 08:55:12 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 08:59:07 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""TheWho""I think you are making a bigger deal out of the bong than you have to. If the communication is going well why push it and make him follow thru with actually physically throwing the bong away (power struggle). There could be a million reasons why he doesn’t want to throw it away, I cant think of any that would be important. Kids see things differently than we do, he may not see that you are waiting patiently for him to throw it away. My advice would be to just toss it, it is home made and if he decides he wants another one some day he can just make another one.
Advice coming from a parent who sent their kid to be forced march and barely fed for a month as punishment. :rofl:
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. (my favorite)
No toilet paper.
Had rocks and items thrown at me.
Locked in a hot, wooden box.
Forced to eat paper.
Forced to be naked for a week.
Thrown into the ocean during a typhoon. ( I think he would keep blowing back ,would'nt he?)
Kicked down a hill and had logs thrown on me.
Had a chair slammed into my gut.
Obtained more skin diseases than a POW in Vietnam.
Forced to carry "sandbags" of rocks up and down hills.
TheWho's sexual fantasy list.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 09:05:59 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
After you guys are all done with your linking and connecting then Bruce can get around to finishing his confession:
This link should help refresh everyones memory on where we are:
Confession Part I (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=470865f36e1b56694b13cd6b58b01374#p334604)
Okay, everybody, you can put the torches out now.
I don't get it. Why do you keep posting a link about TheWho? What does this have to do with limking up TheWho's anonymous posts with his account? He already said to do it, so whatever your point is (?), is moot anyway.
Post by: TheWho on July 01, 2009, 09:08:57 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
You must be confused. What is it you feel I'm not being accountable for?stings a little doesnt it?
We all know you edit your posts the minute you are caught in a bind... its your M.O., Bruce. Accountability for what you write will never be your strong point. It was nice slowly putting the sqeeze on until you just couldnt face your own words any longer and instead of taking ownership for what you wrote you had to go and edit the post... classic RoberBruce at its finest.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 09:11:12 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"You must be confused. What is it you feel I'm not being accountable for?stings a little doesnt it?
We all know you edit your posts the minute you are caught in a bind... its your M.O., Bruce. Accountability for what you write will never be your strong point. It was nice slowly putting the sqeeze on until you just couldnt face your own words any longer and instead of taking ownership for what you wrote you had to go and edit the post... classic RoberBruce at its finest.
This is funny in light of this. Accountability? What? Ha, Ha, Ha.
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
QuoteOn 2006-06-23 12:39:00, TheWho wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-23 12:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yep, WILD FIG and THE WHO are one-and-the-same; and as long as he/she wants to yak to "themself" then what's the point?
Absolute game-playing, dishonesty."
Why guess, ask Deborah to check it out for you, then we will know for sure."
We're still waiting for The Fig to have his/her posts linked.
We linked The Who's posts together some time ago after he was posing as several different people and making up different personal histories while trolling relentlessly.
He still lies about every single thing he posts, but at least you know who the lies are coming from. That's a good first-step!
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 09:14:59 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"You must be confused. What is it you feel I'm not being accountable for?stings a little doesnt it?
We all know you edit your posts the minute you are caught in a bind... its your M.O., Bruce. Accountability for what you write will never be your strong point. It was nice slowly putting the sqeeze on until you just couldnt face your own words any longer and instead of taking ownership for what you wrote you had to go and edit the post... classic RoberBruce at its finest.
So easy to enrage it and draw it out. Little taste of your own medicine, Whootie pie? I am now laughing hysterically at your 'triumph'!
"Don't do what I do! Do what I say!!" :waaaa: Sweeeeeet! You can't win for losing, bro.
Post by: Troll Control on July 01, 2009, 09:17:53 PM
Post by: Inculcated on July 01, 2009, 10:35:41 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
It seems funny that intellectual could apply to property peddled from the mind that WHO.Quote from: "Guest"Doesn't Ursus own TheWho's account now? Hey, Ursus, would you mind if all of TheWho's new anonymous posts are linked to his user account? I think if you say it's OK, then we should just update the post list of the account so we can get to the bottom of who is Who and who isn't Who. Hey, it's your account and you should be able to see all the posts, right?
Psy, if Ursus says yes, do you think it would be possible to move TheWho's anonymous posts under the account? I don't think it's fair for Ursus not to have access to TheWho's posts in their entirety. He did buy the rights to all of TheWho's postings. What do you think?
This seems fair. TheWho is always acting like he's some great capitalist tycoon, so I know he wouldn't object to this plan because, of course, when Ursus bought the brand, so to say, he did in fact buy all of the rights present and future as any standard business transaction. To cheat Ursus out of the intellectual property he purchased in good faith for a good cause is immoral.
Ursus,
I implore you ,Pretty pleeeeease?
Post by: RobertBruce on July 01, 2009, 11:17:18 PM
Quote
stings a little doesnt it?
We all know you edit your posts the minute you are caught in a bind... its your M.O., Bruce. Accountability for what you write will never be your strong point. It was nice slowly putting the sqeeze on until you just couldnt face your own words any longer and instead of taking ownership for what you wrote you had to go and edit the post... classic RoberBruce at its finest
Oh not at all. I just noticed that you were getting a little too excited over the whole thing. Apparently you weren't quite quick enough to pick up on my sarcasam despite the rest of the class being fully on board. I just didnt want to make you feel bad. Unlike some posters I have no issue acknowledging what I have and have not said, nor do I take issue with standing behind or backing up my comments. I also dont cry and claim to be the victim of having my posts modified without my permission, simply because the person is a coward who won't acknowledge their own comments. Do you know anyone who has done that?
No matter though. Once Whooters posts are all linked up, past and present all questions will be answered for you.
Just sit tight.
Post by: Anonymous on July 02, 2009, 03:12:32 AM
Dette kan forklare noe av dets anal fiksering.
Mens selv jeg guden av ugagn og kaos beklager eksistensen av denne tingen,Jeg vil ikke by det til å returnere fra whence det kom fordi ha en byll tilbake det var fæl
Trist til universet og mitt dårlig
Kjærlighet, Loki
Post by: Anonymous on July 02, 2009, 03:21:02 AM
I apologize for my bastard offspring Who, sprang from a pustule on my hind quarters one night.
This may explain some of its anal fixation. While even I the god of mischief and chaos regret the existence of this thing, I will not bid it to return from whence it came because having a boil back there was nasty.
Sorry to the universe and my bad.
Love, Loki
Post by: Anonymous on July 02, 2009, 08:10:13 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Sorry for the long quote, but it's relevant.
Goodtobefree wrote:QuotePerhaps as a former student/client/survivor/inmate/whatever you want to call it, I can shed some light on the subject. I was in peer group 17, I was at ASR from October of 2000 to December of 2001. During my stay I was under the impression that the lifesteps were essentially unchanged from the start of the program up until then. I can't say anything about 2002 and onward. As was said before, they were about anger, insecurities, reconnecting with core self, (aka inner child) and forgiveness. They were held in the library in the academic building, and generally started around mid evening on a friday or saturday night, and lasted between 12 and 24 hours. Hard to tell exactly because they made a policy of taking our watches beforehand. All I know was that at the latest, we were asleep in our beds by the normal lights out the next night, except for the 4th lifestep, where we slept in tents overnight outside the library. That was about 36 hours altogether.
They definitely fed us, slightly less than usual, but more than adequate for a day's nutrition. As for sleep deprivation, we were up way past our bedtimes, which were tightly regulated, so any alterations to the routine were quite noticeable. While we were up late, full of anxiety and stress, we were subjected to a lot of yelling, a lot of exercises and workshops designed to illustrate how our behaviors were hurting us. There was a lot of crying, screaming, cursing, quiet time for writing, (read: kids can't talk, counselors walk around reading what's being written and pontificating about the topics being written about. My point is that it was very intense and quite overwhelming. I don't remember every single detail of the experiences, but I will try to include what I can.
The most memorable thing about the first lifestep was an exercise called dyads. This involved pairing up with a buddy and holding them while screaming at the top of our lungs all the things we hated our parents and ourselves for, for minutes at a time. I distinctly remember spitting up blood and being encouraged to continue screaming. There were also short group therapy sessions, there were exercises involving listing all the things our parents had ever done to hurt us, focusing on all the pain and suffering that we'd ever felt and how angry it made us. After all of us were exhausted we read letters our parents sent us about how much they loved us and why they chose to send us away. Needless to say there was a lot of crying.
The second lifestep had exercises where we had to sit in a circle, while one of us would walk around from person to person to hear whether that one or this one considered them a "giver" or a "taker". After we'd all judged each other we had to say to people why we felt this way about them. Some of this took the form of harsh criticism masked as praise. There were exercises involving how we judge ourselves and how we present ourselves to others. We had to wear cards around our necks that labeled us as one thing or another to supposedly demonstrate how restrictive the images we present to people can be. I remember carving images into cubes of sandstone to symbolize all the good qualities we had and who we really were. I also remember listening to Enya and other new age music, and doing a warped guided meditation which, rather than enhancing relaxation heightens emotions like guilt, sadness and fear. It was either in this lifestep or the third that we did an exercise involving manic, happy music, and all of us being instructed to smile until it started to hurt, and walk around laughing and smiling and looking at each other for about 5-10 minutes with the song on repeat. By the end many were crying, some were on the verge of hysteria.
The third lifestep was probably the most traumatic and damaging. It involved internalizing immense guilt. We had to write down anything and everything that we'd ever done to hurt ourselves, told how horrible it was, then forced to look at childhood pictures of ourselves that our parents had mailed to the school. Sitting there for what seemed like hours being yelled at because all the mistakes, impulses, and self destruction we'd gone through were "horrible things that we, as horrible people had done to the innocent children that we were" We were told to imagine all these wrongdoings being visited upon these children, as if we'd done them to some helpless little kid ourselves. Hurting yourself because you're horribly depressed is suddenly akin to torturing preschoolers. Talk about cognitive dissonance! We had to draw a symbolic portrait of ourselves involving all our interests, loves, etc., then tack the childhood picture to it. The other focus of this lifestep was the emotional manipulations or games that we use in an attempt to fill holes in our lives. We acted out all the games we each typically used, and had our peer group guess which one. Games such as playing the victim, using intimidation, attention games, the "everything is fine" game, etc.
The fourth lifestep involved a modified Native American sweat ritual. One of these took place before the first lifestep, almost a pre lifestep. This ritual was kind of like group therapy in a sauna, with some new age religious undertones. We were smudged with sage before entering the sweat lodge, there was a little discussion about purification. We talked about grudges we held, and how they weighed us down. To illustrate this concept physically, we took a long walk in the woods late at night, each of us carrying a rock about the size of a large melon and being lectured to about how we weigh ourselves down by not letting things go. We weren't allowed to put down the rocks, and the walk lasted somewhere between 1 and 2 hours. Being able to set down the rock was supposed to symbolize how good it feels to let go of anger and resentment. Perfect timing, the program's almost over, let's assuage some of the anger that comes from having a year of your life stolen.
All in all I would say that these lifesteps are a clear indication of the cult like way that the academy is run. In addition I would like to comment on the pervasive nature of the levels and punishment/reward system that was in effect. Profanity was punishable by doing pushups, we were continually encouraged to report each other for anything and everything, for our own good. Dish duty would be assigned for having a shirt untucked or for not cleaning the dorm before breakfast adequately. Being late to meetings or classes had similar consequences. Consequences, not punishments. There was no such thing as a punishment at ASR, just like there were no rules, only Agreements. Since you agreed to not do this or that, you had already accepted the consequence for breaking the agreement. I don't remember ever signing a contract, but then again, since as a minor you don't really have rights or the ability to sign contracts, none of that matters. The point is, it was a very effective technique for fostering obedience through guilt. You didn't just fuck up, you went back on your word and let down the school. The rule system was so pervasive it was difficult to make it through an entire day without breaking at least one. Privileges were removed at the drop of a hat. If you read too many books, you were avoiding people, and weren't allowed to read for pleasure. If you were rude or rowdy you might go on a restriction and lose the privilege of any and all recreational activity for between 1 and 4 weeks. Restrictions could involve being on "bans" with groups or individuals in the school, such as "bans with all lower school students", or all females, all males, etc. You couldn't talk to people you were on bans with or you faced serious consquences. This often caused difficulty in coordinating schoolwork with therapy. Restrictions ended when counselors felt you'd accepted whatever you'd done was horribly wrong and you felt horrible about it/learned something. Then you'd tell the whole school about it and apologize at the end of the day meeting.
Academics are another concern. The options for classes were limited, the teachers often weren't qualified. My chemistry teacher was an English major who was only a chapter ahead of the class each week. He was filling in until they found someone who knew chemistry. Most of the teachers, even those qualified to teach their subject, did not know how to deal with kids with learning disabilities, or kids who acted out constantly. This had a negative effect on the amount of actual teaching that got done. Student's writings, paintings, etc. were often censored for being to dark, too imagey, too negative, too sexual, etc. Reading material was restricted, the library was full of outdated books and random novels, all of it unorganized. On numerous occasions books I'd found in the library were confiscated, apparently even some of them weren't appropriate.
Inmates faced a barrage of emotional abuse from counselors and students alike. Students tried to curry favor by enforcing rules and ratting on others. Once an accusation of rulebreaking, innapropriate behavior, telling "warstories" i.e. talking less than disdainfully about anything ASR didn't like, such as drugs, sex, stunts we'd pulled that got us sent there. Challenging the rules for any reason was being manipulative, denying an accusation was being in denial. Getting upset at false accusations was an attempt to intimidate the accuser. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
At least a third of the inmates were on either wellbutrin or adderall. You got to see one of the 2 psychiatrists the school employed, no one from outside. You weren't allowed to refuse medication either.
Some of the other issues in the program were a lack of policies on various issues such as religions, sexual orientation, and a number of other things. For example, Rudy Bentz the headmaster would frequently speak of a higher power in thinly veiled judeo-christian propaganda terms, and there was a clear preference for mainstream religions. Shortly after 9-11 in a schoolwide discussion, he failed to reprimand or even comment on an inmate yelling in front of the school an insensitive comment about "fucking towelheads". Wiccan or Buddhist students were often slighted, or accused of using the religion as part of their image rather than professing a sincere belief. Big fucking christmas tree up in the common room, slight chanukah concession for the few jewish kids, nothing for anyone else.
On other occasions, I was told by certain counselors that I did not know what my sexual orientation was and I was going through a delusional phase where I mistakenly believed I was bisexual. Yet other counselors told me it was normal and natural and to trust myself. The lack of clear policies on these and other issues created untold confusion and despair.
All in all, I think the program has absolutely minimal potential to help anyone, and most of the help it offers comes solely from the extended period of time away from a harmful home environment, and the substantial reflection it necessitates. The entire premise revolves around group mentality, breaking down and moulding psyches, a complex reward and punishment system combined with censorship and constant, constant, constant reinforcement of obedience that comes from never knowing whether or not you're "in agreement" (currently not violating or witholding a confession about past violations of the rules), and always worrying about being punished.
Through the use of repetitive propaganda, peer pressure, and psycholinguistics, the process of conveniently rephrasing everything to give it a slant that is in line with the belief you're trying to force upon a captive population. Rules are agreements, punishments are consequences, shoveling snow for 6 hours is "getting back in agreement", expressing your feelings in an unapproved manner is either acting out or manipulative behavior.
The Academy at Swift River has done untold damage to hundreds of children whose only crime was being born to parents who held them to unreasonable standards, often abused them mentally, physically and sexually, often were alcoholics or drug addicts or suffered from mental disorders, and thought that money could fix their kid. There is a certain amount of accountability on the parents part, but it's pretty much lip service when you get right down to it. Kids are beaten, berated, treated as less than human, and shipped away to prison without a trial when they understandably start to act out in these circumstances. They go through a 14 month sentence of emotional torture under questionable auspices, subjected to the horrors I've described above. To claim that the parents who sent them there are being called to task because they have to go through a 3 hour group therapy session once every 3 months and hear about how they fucked up their kid doesn't even begin to address the issues at hand.
The whole thing is a twisted mixture of cult and psych ward, it should be burnt to the ground and its founders should be jailed.
The Who wrote:QuoteThank you for clarifying that. Your account mirrors closely to that of my childs, so I do believe you experienced what you say you did, although the accounts that I heard had a much more positive affect. Much of the detail is dramatically different.
I feel this further supports the fact that not every school is beneficial to every student and there needs to be a better screening process in place to help define which students will be successful.
Like any organization they may need to continue to monitor the training of their counselors, the success or failure of the life steps could be that simple (or very devistating) depending on how they are presented.
Yes, you are right the counselors are fully vested in the success of the kids they work with and want the best for them. This comes across very clearly with the ones I have met.
What Goodtobefree described is abuse. You said it 'closely mirrors that of your child'. Your child was abused.
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2009, 08:48:09 AM
See, Who, you've been set up like bowling pin and knocked down. RB put up a little red meat for you to latch on to, you took the bait (obviously). You got sent on a full week's worth of relentless, and I mean relentless, trolling of RB that led you to get progressively more sick, disgusting and twisted in your commentary. You got egged on to do more and more of it and you took the bait again because your obsession and compulsion rule you and I use them to exploit you. Simple.
Finally, just to prove it is indeed you, the only person who hates RB, DJ, Deb and others with such venom, I asked RB to alter his post (the one he baited you with originally) so you'd jump on it as some sort of 'victory' and in your glee, use all of your "Whoisms" while celebrating, thinking you got the better of RB ("Ha,Ha,Ha, Bruce. I knew I'd get you. You can't take responsibility for your actions" Oh, soooo rich and satisfying). Well, you got fucking owned again, you dumb fuck.
And not only did we get you to show yourself and reveal your disgusting homosexual/bestiality/sadism fetishes, now the last bit has been sprung on you. Confident in your anonymity, you really revealed your inner self and your twisted nature, power-hungry control-freakishness, superiority complex and rampant narcisism, and now all of those post that you desperately want to avoid accountability for are going to be linked to your account so everyone can see the true you. Isn't that lovely?
Let me ask you, Who, how does it feel to be controlled like a video game and manipulated to do nothing but read and post all day and night for a week? I bet it feels bad. Real bad. And I bet you'll lash out because of it. How does it feel to be a loser, Who? You got bested by a a couple of program kids and they ate your fucking lunch, weakling.
Next item on the agenda: Move TheWho's posts under his username for all to read in their full glory.
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2009, 09:58:55 AM
Post by: TheWho on July 02, 2009, 10:37:52 AM
If asking admins to link up guest posts on people everytime you lose face in an argument, debate in an attempt to figure out who was responsible for each post somehow improves your ( and Dysfunction Junctions) quality of life then thats the path you need to follow. If it brings you happiness, in the end, then that is what is important. But, it would have been easier on both of you if you learn to discuss more openly about what you post and why you have the opinions that you do etc. it makes for a more informative and inviting forum for new posters as well as seasoned posters.
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2009, 11:06:08 AM
You got set up, beaten at your own game and din't even realize you were getting jobbed until after the fact. For fuck's sake, RB had to clue you in the post was changed just to make you look at it so he could make you do a victory dance and post all of your unique identifiers. You're done, douche bag. All your dirty laundry is going to get aired, and very soon.
No other anonymous posters need to worry about their posts beiong "exposed." Only you, Who voluntarily gave up your account for sale and promised as part of the deal never to post here agian. Like always, your weakness came through and you violated the agreement. Now you have no reasonable expectaion of privacy, and you won't get any.
Feeling a little sick to your stomach I bet.
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2009, 11:09:25 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
What's wrong, Who? Are you just a little embarrassed about your behavior here again? Got caught talking about ass-raping some kids? Had some homoerotic fantasies of yours put out there? I wonder why you think RB should be 'accountable' for what he posts, but you hide in the shadows making sick references to bestality and rape while berating already abused kids.
See, Who, you've been set up like bowling pin and knocked down. RB put up a little red meat for you to latch on to, you took the bait (obviously). You got sent on a full week's worth of relentless, and I mean relentless, trolling of RB that led you to get progressively more sick, disgusting and twisted in your commentary. You got egged on to do more and more of it and you took the bait again because your obsession and compulsion rule you and I use them to exploit you. Simple.
Finally, just to prove it is indeed you, the only person who hates RB, DJ, Deb and others with such venom, I asked RB to alter his post (the one he baited you with originally) so you'd jump on it as some sort of 'victory' and in your glee, use all of your "Whoisms" while celebrating, thinking you got the better of RB ("Ha,Ha,Ha, Bruce. I knew I'd get you. You can't take responsibility for your actions" Oh, soooo rich and satisfying). Well, you got fucking owned again, you dumb fuck.
And not only did we get you to show yourself and reveal your disgusting homosexual/bestiality/sadism fetishes, now the last bit has been sprung on you. Confident in your anonymity, you really revealed your inner self and your twisted nature, power-hungry control-freakishness, superiority complex and rampant narcisism, and now all of those post that you desperately want to avoid accountability for are going to be linked to your account so everyone can see the true you. Isn't that lovely?
Let me ask you, Who, how does it feel to be controlled like a video game and manipulated to do nothing but read and post all day and night for a week? I bet it feels bad. Real bad. And I bet you'll lash out because of it. How does it feel to be a loser, Who? You got bested by a a couple of program kids and they ate your fucking lunch, weakling.
Next item on the agenda: Move TheWho's posts under his username for all to read in their full glory.
I think TheWho has shat in his skivvies. It's going to be great to plumb the depths of this wierdo's behavior. Can not WAIT to see all of his new identities linked up and his thought process laid bare for everyone. Right on!
Post by: Anonymous on July 02, 2009, 11:22:14 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Sorry Bruce, that you had to expend so much energy covering up your post and when you couldn’t you had a need to go back to editing it (as always). I would have let you off the hook pages back if I suspected you would take it so hard (you are obviously upset and on a mission! Ha,Ha,Ha). But my original thought was that it is important that you learn to be accountable for what you write. This has been a tough area for you. You would have felt much better about yourself if you had confronted the problem head on instead of trying to hide it and then eventually trying to bury it. Now look where you are!! You need to take a desperate path to clean yourself up.
If asking admins to link up guest posts on people everytime you lose face in an argument, debate in an attempt to figure out who was responsible for each post somehow improves your ( and Dysfunction Junctions) quality of life then thats the path you need to follow. If it brings you happiness, in the end, then that is what is important. But, it would have been easier on both of you if you learn to discuss more openly about what you post and why you have the opinions that you do etc. it makes for a more informative and inviting forum for new posters as well as seasoned posters.
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...MEWL, MEWL, MEWL...WHIIIIIIIIIINE.....
Shut your fucking hole, shill boy. This is about business, you understand business, don't you who? Your account was sold. That account was YOU. YOU are Ursus' property if you post here. That was the deal - you were leaving. You always reneged on your promises to leave in the past. The auction was to put an end to that. Now that you've broken the deal, YOUR ANON IDIOT SOCK PUPPETS, YOUR FAKE SURVIVOR STORIES, YOUR SICK PEDOPHILE REMARKS WILL BE LINKED UP BECAUSE YOU FUCKED UP. TOO MANY LIES, TOO MANY TIMES. URSUS OWNS YOU LIKE A FARM ANIMAL, WHO-BAG. YOU ARE HIS BEAST.
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2009, 11:46:13 AM
@Who: Do you want to try to resolve this with some honesty? If you want this to go away, there will have to be concessions on your part.
Post by: Whobot on July 02, 2009, 11:53:27 AM
Persuading other parents to risk killing their kids won't bring yours back, asshole. Get therapy. ASAP.
Post by: try another castle on July 02, 2009, 12:59:35 PM
Yeah.... that.
Leprechaun... :beat:
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2009, 01:06:30 PM
How does it feel to be outsmarted, outmaneuvered and outperformed by a program kid, Whooter? Please share your feelings. As soon as you're done rocking back and forth muttering about Robert. Take your time, buddy. It's worth the wait.
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2009, 01:14:51 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 02, 2009, 01:34:04 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2009, 01:46:02 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 02, 2009, 01:52:29 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Is Bruce just a little obsessed with TheWho?
The majority of the Guest posts are Bruces. He is real excited about linking thewhos guest posts together, he is like a little kid again.
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2009, 02:00:01 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2009, 02:20:06 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
No, it's actually TheWho that has been stalking Brucie for a few years. It's really a sick obsession. Anyway, he agreed to have his posts linked up, so at least he's taking responsibility, we just have to wait and see which posts link up. TheWho says it will hurt RB and RB says it will hurt TheWho, but we'll have to wait until it's done to tell, unless TheWho has something else he wants to say before he leaves. He might be gone already in anticipation that he'll be so badly damaged he can't come back anyway.
IMHO if The Who isn't gone yet, he will be after it all comes out. If you look at the writing styles, punctuation and everything else it looks like all of the "Bruces Did It" and all of the "Bruce Anally Rapes Dogs Woof Woof" are The Who. Why would Brucie say those awful things about himself? I don't think anyone would do that. You don't see The Who posting "The Who is a pedophile". Why would someone say that about themselves. it's pretty obvious that The Who was going hard after Bruce, crossed a lot of boundaries, said a lot of things that now he wishes he didn't and now can't go back and edit his posts because he chose to do all this in secret. That's the downside of anon posts, they can't be revised. Maybe if The Who takes responsibility and apologizes to Brucie and the other abuse survivors he ridiculed then this could be avoided.
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2009, 02:29:19 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Is Bruce just a little obsessed with TheWho?
The majority of the Guest posts are Bruces. He is real excited about linking thewhos guest posts together, he is like a little kid again.
What do you think will be proven when this happens? Do you think we'll find out Brucie and TheWho are the same guy?
Post by: TheWho on July 02, 2009, 03:28:47 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Is Bruce just a little obsessed with TheWho?
The majority of the Guest posts are Bruces. He is real excited about linking thewhos guest posts together, he is like a little kid again.
What do you think will be proven when this happens? Do you think we'll find out Brucie and TheWho are the same guy?
No, the posts wont show that. I dont think Bruce would use the same IP for both characters. Ask che gookin (the king of deception), no respectible person would be dumb enough to do that. Besides Bruce already admitted he was TheWho. Linking TheWhos posts are going to tell us if TheWho was making all those anal and discusting remarks about Bruce. Thats what Bruce wants to see.
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2009, 04:30:45 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 02, 2009, 05:04:44 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 02, 2009, 05:06:08 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 02, 2009, 05:16:50 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
I don't mean to contribute to this shitwreck of a thread, but if you really think your MAC address is going to get passed around by your ISP, I have some interesting news for you.
Its just Bruce trying to get as far as he can from his edited posts to try to clean himself up. He is trying to convince everyone that one person cannot have 2 different user names here on fornits and access each of them thru a different address from the same computer. He thinks none of us have heard of proxies. That is why someone mentioned Che Gookin.
Che is the "proxy master"! Sorry, Bruce, linking up posts via ip addresses will not prove who is "who" (sorry for the pun, I couldnt resist).
Post by: Froderik on July 02, 2009, 06:05:20 PM
And what good is linking all of his posts together gonna do? After all, nobody is going to bother to read them anyway...
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2009, 06:08:35 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
No, it's actually TheWho that has been stalking Brucie for a few years. It's really a sick obsession. Anyway, he agreed to have his posts linked up, so at least he's taking responsibility, we just have to wait and see which posts link up. TheWho says it will hurt RB and RB says it will hurt TheWho, but we'll have to wait until it's done to tell, unless TheWho has something else he wants to say before he leaves. He might be gone already in anticipation that he'll be so badly damaged he can't come back anyway.
No, he's still here. He posted the last post. But he has toned it down and he's not making child-rape jokes right now. He got a good dose of his own medicine and got fully owned by a program kid. It takes time to come back from that, especially when you know everyone is soon to find out what you've been doing anonymously. Basically he's deeply afraid, NOT ashamed. He has no shame in his game, but he is afraid what will be found out about his posting habits in a day or two. What he's been saying here is that he is actually Brucie, which anyone with a single brain cell or more knows is totally false.
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2009, 06:16:50 PM
Quote from: "Froderik"
So who (pun unavoidable) really cares if TheWho is RB or not? Is it even worth debating? We all know what TheWho is, what more do you all need? Not to say I don't appreciate people calling him out, etc...
And what good is linking all of his posts together gonna do? After all, nobody is going to bother to read them anyway...
I hear ya, but he's trying to say that he is RobertBruce. We know what he is and what he isn't, but the way he continually attacks this poor kid is downright shameful. For me, I'd like to see his posts linked up just to show what he's been up to around here. I think many people would be astonished at exactly how many people he has posed as here. It's dozens. But RB is nice young man and a straight-up guy. I'd just like TheWho to act his age and stop getting his sadistic homoerotic rocks off by posting his rape fantasies here and telling everyone RB is doing it. Like I said, RB is a nice guy, has a nice girl and a good job, all after being horribly abused at HLA. He deserves more respect than that. Yeah, he bickers with Whooter, but he does so over issues of child abuse while Whootie goes right for the 'anal rape' and 'bestiality' memes. Why is the adult here acting like a baby and the kid is acting like an adult? Go figure.
You'd think that after his son hung himself, Whootie pie could have some humility, but he actually blames his kid for being weak and has a lot of anger that his kid couldn't properly execute (no pun intended) the plan that his overbearing father laid out for him. Let it go, Who. He's dead and it' s your fault, not some kid from HLA's.
Post by: TheWho on July 02, 2009, 06:17:59 PM
Quote from: "Froderik"
So who (pun unavoidable) really cares if TheWho is RB or not? Is it even worth debating? We all know what TheWho is, what more do you all need? Not to say I don't appreciate people calling him out, etc...
And what good is linking all of his posts together gonna do? After all, nobody is going to bother to read them anyway...
Who knows (pun intended!), It will give Bruce something to read over the long weekend.
Post by: Froderik on July 02, 2009, 06:22:10 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
I hear ya, but he's trying to say that he is RobertBruce.Yeah.....there's no way in hell he would have been able to keep both sides going (yes, I was sorta watching as it transpired.) That would have been a hell of a lot of typing and would have taken an almost schizo personality to achieve. No way, I agree. Why the hell is the jackass trying to claim he's RB now? Aside from the fact that no one buys it anyway, what purpose would it have served to have people believing this? What convoluted, asinine crap to devote one's self to, eh?
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2009, 06:30:56 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2009, 06:33:09 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Doesn't Ursus own TheWho's account now? Hey, Ursus, would you mind if all of TheWho's new anonymous posts are linked to his user account? I think if you say it's OK, then we should just update the post list of the account so we can get to the bottom of who is Who and who isn't Who. Hey, it's your account and you should be able to see all the posts, right?
Psy, if Ursus says yes, do you think it would be possible to move TheWho's anonymous posts under the account? I don't think it's fair for Ursus not to have access to TheWho's posts in their entirety. He did buy the rights to all of TheWho's postings. What do you think?
This seems fair. TheWho is always acting like he's some great capitalist tycoon, so I know he wouldn't object to this plan because, of course, when Ursus bought the brand, so to say, he did in fact buy all of the rights present and future as any standard business transaction. To cheat Ursus out of the intellectual property he purchased in good faith for a good cause is immoral.
This is a winner. I say we do it. I want to see The Who panic when his posts joking about anally raping children come up under his avatar. I'm going to PM Psy and make a forceful argument about the business case, which is very stout. Ursus is getting cheated.
Plus TheWho already said to go ahead and do it.
Post by: Anonymous on July 02, 2009, 06:37:02 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2009, 06:49:34 PM
Quote from: "Hold on, I just shit on my hands!"
Who did the who rape?
Don't know if he actually raped anyone, but he's been talking a lot about 'anal rape' of kids and dogs lately. He's been fantasizing about it alot in this thread. I know I wouldn't let him near my kid after what he's written here. He's got some real problems. What kind of parent talks about raping kids??
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2009, 06:54:58 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Guest"Exactly who is it that you are trying to have take responsibility for your own posts Bruce? Why did you post that garbage under TheWho username to begin with? Its always good to start at the source:
my confession (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27787&start=60#p335180)
My mouth will slowly engulf to you, Bruce. Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle ... but you wont get far!!!
Waddaya gonna do? Hold him down?? Heh. Back to your old style again. "Raped kids are funny" style, bro. Original Whooter.
Check it out.
Post by: TheWho on July 02, 2009, 06:58:17 PM
Quote from: "Froderik"
Quote from: "Guest"I hear ya, but he's trying to say that he is RobertBruce.Yeah.....there's no way in hell he would have been able to keep both sides going (yes, I was sorta watching as it transpired.) That would have been a hell of a lot of typing and would have taken an almost schizo personality to achieve. No way, I agree. Why the hell is the jackass trying to claim he's RB now? Aside from the fact that no one buys it anyway, what purpose would it have served to have people believing this? What convoluted, asinine crap to devote one's self to, eh?
I think he may be paranoid. I havent read any anon posts which read that TheWho is claiming to be RB or anyone else. Bruce seems to have a canine hangup of some type, not sure why he brings dogs into it all the time. Maybe it is just his thing.
Post by: Troll Control on July 02, 2009, 08:53:37 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 02, 2009, 09:08:42 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
here goes ^^the who^^ again, right back on the 'brucie is a dog-fucker' rant. it's really sad that thewho has no life and gets a hard-on from fantasie about a kid and a dog fucking. he should go to a school that use saversion therapy to get past his fetish of kids and dogs as sex objects
I think the earlier guest poster may be right it may be Bruces imaginaion and not TheWho. I didnt see any of what you say in the post above with any of that language in it or ranting. I think that you make it up as you go along.
Post by: RobertBruce on July 03, 2009, 12:18:29 AM
Post by: Troll Control on July 03, 2009, 05:49:01 AM
Quote from: "TheWho"
My mouth will slowly engulf to you, Bruce.
TheWho wrote now:
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"here goes ^^the who^^ again, right back on the 'brucie is a dog-fucker' rant. it's really sad that thewho has no life and gets a hard-on from fantasie about a kid and a dog fucking. he should go to a school that use saversion therapy to get past his fetish of kids and dogs as sex objects
I think the earlier guest poster may be right it may be Bruces imaginaion and not TheWho. I didnt see any of what you say in the post above with any of that language in it or ranting. I think that you make it up as you go along.
Post by: TheWho on July 03, 2009, 07:42:34 AM
Post by: RobertBruce on July 03, 2009, 11:01:38 AM
Post by: RobertBruce on July 03, 2009, 11:07:54 AM
Quote
Slow down, guys. Ha, Ha, Ha. Just because Bob was called out doesn't mean you have to pick up the pitchforks and torches! As I said before, if it will make you happy to link up all of my anon posts, then go ahead and do it. You have my permission. You all know full well that I have nothing to hide. It's Brucie that's going to get burned, so if you link the posts you'll only be hurting a survivor, not me. These forums use to be fun, but you guys take yourselves way too seriously and freak out just because you've been proven wrong. Do what you will. I can take it. I won't be coming back anyway.
I thought this was an interesting comment. How many times over the years have you made this promise Whooter? Odd for a man so obsessed with his credibility to lie like that repeatedly.
Post by: TheWho on July 03, 2009, 11:34:50 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Bruce? When are TheWhos posts going to be linked up?
Since the whole fornits forum was disrupted over the last week by bumping up TheWho thread RobertBruce was asked to have all his “Guest” posts strung together and placed under his user name also. But he declined, so the request has been placed on hold.
Post by: RobertBruce on July 03, 2009, 11:52:35 AM
Quote
Since the whole fornits forum was disrupted over the last week by bumping up TheWho thread RobertBruce was asked to have all his “Guest” posts strung together and placed under his user name also. But he declined, so the request has been placed on hold
Awww how cute. Whooter still trying to avoid accountablity for your actions? Still trying to place the blame on others? Still a chicken shit coward who can only ever play games? Sounds like Whootie is a wittle scared.
Here, allow me to embarrass you yet again:
Quote
In any event, Psy, since thewho is still playing games can you go ahead and link up all my guest posts under my username? I want to make sure I'm held accountable for all my actions, as I have nothing to hide
Look here's another one
Quote
That then being the case Psy, since Who appears to still be playing games and claiming that he and I are the same poster, can you link up all those guest postings to each respective name. Who, if you're still on here please help to clear up the confusion and request psy do the same thing with your posts. Hopefully that'll straighten things right up.
So since I gave permission to have my guest postings linked up, and none of them are attached to you, are you going to run off scared now per your usual MO?
Post by: TheWho on July 03, 2009, 12:44:02 PM
Post by: psy on July 03, 2009, 12:51:46 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Sting!!! Boy that got a response!! Hurts doesnt it. Calm down,Brucie, its not that bad. Just send a PM to psy indicating that you want your guest posts attached to your user name (RobertBruce). Posting out here it may get lost. If you do PM him we will know by your increase in number of posts. If you dont, well, we will know that also.Frankly, I don't have the time to go post by guest post determining who is who and relabeling them for anybody. I have better shit to do... This whole thread is a mockery. Just grow up... all of you.
::deadhorse:: ::deadhorse:: ::deadhorse:: ::deadhorse:: ::deadhorse:: ::deadhorse:: ::deadhorse::
Post by: RobertBruce on July 03, 2009, 01:09:57 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Sting!!! Boy that got a response!! Hurts doesnt it. Calm down,Brucie, its not that bad. Just send a PM to psy indicating that you want your guest posts attached to your user name (RobertBruce). Posting out here it may get lost. If you do PM him we will know by your increase in number of posts. If you dont, well, we will know that also.
It did get a response. I've told you on many occasions how much I love embarrassing you and exposing your games. Despite the fact that it's ridiculsly easy, I still get a kick out of it. In any event you're ignoring the fact that because I so seldomly post as a guest Psy linking them to my name would make only a negligble difference. I've explained this to you Whootie, you're just still too stupid to understand; I don't play the same games you do. I'm not afraid of the truth like you are. Be a man for once in your life and own up to your actions.
Post by: Troll Control on July 03, 2009, 01:14:42 PM
EDIT: The posts have been linked and Whooter is fully exposed.
Post by: Troll Control on July 03, 2009, 01:17:14 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Guest"Sting!!! Boy that got a response!! Hurts doesnt it. Calm down,Brucie, its not that bad. Just send a PM to psy indicating that you want your guest posts attached to your user name (RobertBruce). Posting out here it may get lost. If you do PM him we will know by your increase in number of posts. If you dont, well, we will know that also.Frankly, I don't have the time to go post by guest post determining who is who and relabeling them for anybody. I have better shit to do... This whole thread is a mockery. Just grow up... all of you.
::deadhorse:: ::deadhorse:: ::deadhorse:: ::deadhorse:: ::deadhorse:: ::deadhorse:: ::deadhorse::
whats sad is that the who is a program parent and look how he almost orgasms at the thought of hurting a child. he is jerking it with one hand while typing fantasies about hurting kids with the other
Post by: Troll Control on July 03, 2009, 01:20:49 PM
Quote
="TheWho"]Just because my kid commited suicide how would any of you know if it was due to depression, a girlfriend who broke it off, an accident? How do you attribute it to a specific cause? The theories that I see being posted have little or no bearing because no note was left so no one knows what the cause was. How do we know the program didn’t extend his life an extra few years before he finally took his life? Without the program he might have died years earlier
So did your kid's life get extended by the program? Would he have hanged himself if he didn't go?
Post by: Troll Control on July 03, 2009, 01:24:20 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TheWho"Just because my kid commited suicide how would any of you know if it was due to depression, a girlfriend who broke it off, an accident? How do you attribute it to a specific cause? The theories that I see being posted have little or no bearing because no note was left so no one knows what the cause was. How do we know the program didn’t extend his life an extra few years before he finally took his life? Without the program he might have died years earlier
So did your kid's life get extended by the program? Would he have hanged himself if he didn't go?
I wonder why he didn't use the tools the program gave him to deal with suicidal thoughts. Any program kid is well-equipped for this situation because of the tools they get. Regular kids kill themselves more often cuz they don't have the tools. His kid probably didn't work the program right so he couldn't use the tools right.
Post by: TheWho on July 03, 2009, 01:37:02 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 03, 2009, 01:47:56 PM
Adios
Post by: Anonymous on July 03, 2009, 02:00:51 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
I think this is a good time to let this thread drift back to the bottom. Go look for a job or do something constructive, Brucie.:beat: HAR-DEE-HAR-FUCKIN-HAR!!! :beat: :rofl:
Post by: RobertBruce on July 03, 2009, 02:14:21 PM
I mentioned before I'm pretty stable on the job front right now. I count myself among the lucky ones. It sure is nice to have a three day weekend for the holiday though isnt it?
Post by: RobertBruce on July 03, 2009, 02:25:06 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 03, 2009, 03:24:29 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
He never stays gone for long. He can't stand to accept the fact that he's was owned......again. He always comes back thinking somehow this time will be different. Sorry Whooter, it never is.
Okay Horton, we all believe you.
Post by: Troll Control on July 03, 2009, 05:07:10 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "TheWho"Just because my kid commited suicide how would any of you know if it was due to depression, a girlfriend who broke it off, an accident? How do you attribute it to a specific cause? The theories that I see being posted have little or no bearing because no note was left so no one knows what the cause was. How do we know the program didn’t extend his life an extra few years before he finally took his life? Without the program he might have died years earlier
So did your kid's life get extended by the program? Would he have hanged himself if he didn't go?
I wonder why he didn't use the tools the program gave him to deal with suicidal thoughts. Any program kid is well-equipped for this situation because of the tools they get. Regular kids kill themselves more often cuz they don't have the tools. His kid probably didn't work the program right so he couldn't use the tools right.
and his dad will miss the 4th of july party cuz he'll be here posting all day
Post by: Troll Control on July 03, 2009, 05:22:02 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
QuoteListen to Ervin's wheels spin. Nowhere in the ad does it say Aspen will help these GED'ers "better themselves thru education". That ad isn't for line staff Mike. It's for the residential supervisor. The line staff positions must only require a pulse and a proclivity toward extreme violence. Aspen doesn't want counselors, they want grunts, prison guards.
Just a walk down memory lane....Never did Deborah offer to enlighten us on what qualifications she felt were needed for those various positions. Didnt matter if it were a GED position or doctorate......Just took the opportunity to purge hatred upon others whom she never knew for the sheer satisfaction of hurting someone she didn’t have to face. To me she was the face of fornits back then.
...
Hmmmmmm...TheWho has done this to many people and did it knowing he didn't have to face anyone. Can you say"hypocrite"?
Post by: Troll Control on July 04, 2009, 10:33:00 AM
Post by: RobertBruce on July 04, 2009, 10:51:49 AM
Post by: Troll Control on July 04, 2009, 11:01:26 AM
Post by: Troll Control on July 04, 2009, 11:13:42 AM
Post by: Troll Control on July 04, 2009, 02:41:03 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
"Stings, Doesn't It?" (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=27884#p335758)
I bet it do.
Post by: TheWho on July 05, 2009, 03:08:36 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 05, 2009, 03:20:32 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 05, 2009, 03:27:24 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Ya know have your fun and all , but if my full name is revealed and posted on the open forum there will be a lawsuit. I dont think there would be any question about that!
Nice try, Whooter, steering it back to "Pete". Won't work, "The King" knows...
:roflmao:
Post by: Anonymous on July 05, 2009, 03:29:19 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Who, if your out there, holding Bruce accountable for his posts really pissed him off so he will need to blow off some steam. This will blow over soon.
Nice try again, and pretty clever, those two posts together... Won't work, your out of your league here, Whooter.
Post by: Troll Control on July 05, 2009, 04:44:02 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 05, 2009, 05:06:02 PM
Quote from: "My Two Sons"
Yeah, he's above his pay grade here. Since he got demoted at work, he's way above his pay grade.
Here's something funny, though. I think there is another poster who also knows 'who' TheWho is as well. What else can you add, 'The King,' to bring to light more about Whootie pie?
I know everything right down to his address, employer, job title, work phone, home phone, wife's name (and maiden name), "the family business" and lots more.
What about you, 'King'? I think you may be the person that told us originally that Whooter doesn't have a daughter at all and used to have two sons. Any ideas there? I can verify that he did, for sure, have two sons until at least 2004, but can't say for sure what happened to the younger of the "MD"'s after 2004.
Before you push this any further I think you should talk to a lawyer. for your own good.
Post by: Troll Control on July 05, 2009, 05:23:14 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 05, 2009, 05:27:02 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "My Two Sons"Yeah, he's above his pay grade here. Since he got demoted at work, he's way above his pay grade.
Here's something funny, though. I think there is another poster who also knows 'who' TheWho is as well. What else can you add, 'The King,' to bring to light more about Whootie pie?
I know everything right down to his address, employer, job title, work phone, home phone, wife's name (and maiden name), "the family business" and lots more.
What about you, 'King'? I think you may be the person that told us originally that Whooter doesn't have a daughter at all and used to have two sons. Any ideas there? I can verify that he did, for sure, have two sons until at least 2004, but can't say for sure what happened to the younger of the "MD"'s after 2004.
Before you push this any further I think you should talk to a lawyer. for your own good.
Uh-oh! You know when the lawyer talk comes out that someone has hit pay dirt.
Post by: TheWho on July 05, 2009, 05:59:56 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Why? There's nothing illegal about opposition research. I put the pieces together from public records. Peter writes a lot of personal information on the web. That's not my problem.
Well ,go ahead, big guy and see what happens!! I warn you to keep my wife and kids out of it,though, or it could get rough for you!!
Post by: Troll Control on July 05, 2009, 06:02:36 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Why? There's nothing illegal about opposition research. I put the pieces together from public records. Peter writes a lot of personal information on the web. That's not my problem.
Well ,go ahead, big guy and see what happens!! I warn you to keep my wife and kids out of it,though, or it could get rough for you!!
0/10. Low grade stuff.
Post by: Anonymous on July 05, 2009, 06:11:06 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 05, 2009, 06:21:39 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Is thewho's identity known? If so, what is it? Guest, why not write a post to the effect of "i think thewho's identity is..." and a link?
Yeah. It’s not like anyone is asking for the head of John the baptist, here. We just want WHO to get pantsed and quit it.
Post by: Troll Control on July 05, 2009, 06:43:59 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 05, 2009, 06:50:56 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 05, 2009, 06:52:13 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
I like leaving him in suspense. He has to keep coming back and checking every few minutes all day every day to see if it's out yet. It will be soon. You have some details you could use to put it together for yourselves in the meantime.
^^^ Translation^^^ He doesnt have anything.
Post by: RobertBruce on July 05, 2009, 06:55:18 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Ya know have your fun and all , but if my full name is revealed and posted on the open forum there will be a lawsuit. I dont think there would be any question about that!
Then be prepared for a counter suit you stupid piece of shit. You attempted to release my full name on here, after an HLA employee broke HIPPA laws. You even went so far as to not only begin using what you think is my name, but using it in connection with your claim that I was gay. You did so after the same HLA employee gave you information and encouraged you to post it online. You had no issue with personal information being posted online then, in fact you thought it was hilarious.
How's does a dose of your own medicine sit with you Petey?
Post by: RobertBruce on July 05, 2009, 06:56:05 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 05, 2009, 07:00:13 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"I like leaving him in suspense. He has to keep coming back and checking every few minutes all day every day to see if it's out yet. It will be soon. You have some details you could use to put it together for yourselves in the meantime.
^^^ Translation^^^ He doesnt have anything.
Peter, do you want me to go further? These types of miscalculations are what caused you to be demoted at work, aren't they? I can drop a few links for you if you need me to. You know, the nice people from Lexington High School Class of 1968 Reunion Comittee had some very nice things to share about you, Pete. Very friendly and chatty in their responses to "an old Army buddy of Pete's just looking for my old friend." Which reminds me...Aren't you a bit too old to be playing games like this? :beat:
Post by: Troll Control on July 05, 2009, 07:03:32 PM
Quote from: "Salomé"
Okay,Let it sweat it..
Oh, he's more than sweating it right now. He has a lot of connections that will see what he does here as a big problem for their businesses. Especially once all of his ties are exposed.
Post by: RobertBruce on July 05, 2009, 07:03:51 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 05, 2009, 07:07:57 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"I like leaving him in suspense. He has to keep coming back and checking every few minutes all day every day to see if it's out yet. It will be soon. You have some details you could use to put it together for yourselves in the meantime.
^^^ Translation^^^ He doesnt have anything.
Right. We both know that, don't we, Whooter? These hounds are barking in the wrong county even. But we also know who actually does... know... the entire deal.
Two down, one to go. How long are you going to keep this up, Whooter? You know this business doesn't actually treat the problem, it often makes it worse.
Post by: Troll Control on July 05, 2009, 07:09:51 PM
Quote from: "Don't call me Chris; my name is Elvis"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"I like leaving him in suspense. He has to keep coming back and checking every few minutes all day every day to see if it's out yet. It will be soon. You have some details you could use to put it together for yourselves in the meantime.
^^^ Translation^^^ He doesnt have anything.
Right. We both know that, don't we, Whooter? These hounds are barking in the wrong county even. But we also know who actually does... know... the entire deal.
Two down, one to go. How long are you going to keep this up, Whooter? You know this business doesn't actually treat the problem, it often makes it worse.
Please, enlighten us. We'd like to know where we went wrong.
Post by: TheWho on July 05, 2009, 07:17:19 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Quote from: "Guest"Ya know have your fun and all , but if my full name is revealed and posted on the open forum there will be a lawsuit. I dont think there would be any question about that!
Then be prepared for a counter suit you stupid piece of shit. You attempted to release my full name on here, after an HLA employee broke HIPPA laws. You even went so far as to not only begin using what you think is my name, but using it in connection with your claim that I was gay. You did so after the same HLA employee gave you information and encouraged you to post it online. You had no issue with personal information being posted online then, in fact you thought it was hilarious.
How's does a dose of your own medicine sit with you Petey?
Classic Double standard Devon!!! He is fine with exposing other peoples information on the forum but when it comes to his own its “Boo Hoo Hoo” someone is breaking a HIPPA Law and found out I am Devon from HLA.
As far as the gay comments go. If you take a look at your own posts you will see that you bring it up a lot… I mean a lot. It doesn’t take a shrink and a breached curtain of HIPPA laws to figure out you have thoughts in this area. I Am not saying there is anything wrong with it, Devon.. it’s the same as heterosexual only just the opposite. There is no judgment from me. But why not just lay off the language if it makes you uncomfortable.
Post by: Troll Control on July 05, 2009, 07:31:22 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"Quote from: "Guest"Ya know have your fun and all , but if my full name is revealed and posted on the open forum there will be a lawsuit. I dont think there would be any question about that!
Then be prepared for a counter suit you stupid piece of shit. You attempted to release my full name on here, after an HLA employee broke HIPPA laws. You even went so far as to not only begin using what you think is my name, but using it in connection with your claim that I was gay. You did so after the same HLA employee gave you information and encouraged you to post it online. You had no issue with personal information being posted online then, in fact you thought it was hilarious.
How's does a dose of your own medicine sit with you Petey?
Classic Double standard Devon!!! He is fine with exposing other peoples information on the forum but when it comes to his own its “Boo Hoo Hoo” someone is breaking a HIPPA Law and found out I am Devon from HLA.
As far as the gay comments go. If you take a look at your own posts you will see that you bring it up a lot… I mean a lot. It doesn’t take a shrink and a breached curtain of HIPPA laws to figure out you have thoughts in this area. I Am not saying there is anything wrong with it, Devon.. it’s the same as heterosexual only just the opposite. There is no judgment from me. But why not just lay off the language if it makes you uncomfortable.
So sayeth Peter from Hamilton.
Post by: RobertBruce on July 05, 2009, 08:45:19 PM
Quote
Classic Double standard Devon!!! He is fine with exposing other peoples information on the forum but when it comes to his own its “Boo Hoo Hoo” someone is breaking a HIPPA Law and found out I am Devon from HLA.
As far as the gay comments go. If you take a look at your own posts you will see that you bring it up a lot… I mean a lot. It doesn’t take a shrink and a breached curtain of HIPPA laws to figure out you have thoughts in this area. I Am not saying there is anything wrong with it, Devon.. it’s the same as heterosexual only just the opposite. There is no judgment from me. But why not just lay off the language if it makes you uncomfortable
Or like the time he joined in Karen's crusade to try and find out where Dysfunction worked in an effort to get him fired!
Still avoiding accepting respondsibility Petey? No matter. The longer you refuse to acknowledge the truth, the more truth is going to come to light. Oh, and just to let you in on a little secret. We garnered all this information from your NAMBLA account. You really shouldnt post that sort of information online Peter. or information about who you think I might be. Sorry Whootie, your friends arent as smart as mine.
Anyway, even though I'm not gay I can understand why you might think so, afterall we did completly own your ass. :seg:
Post by: Inculcated on July 05, 2009, 08:49:24 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
We garnered all this information from your NAMBLA account.ew It's a member of the National Association of Marlon Brando Look-Alikes?
Post by: RobertBruce on July 05, 2009, 08:51:34 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 05, 2009, 09:33:23 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
QuoteClassic Double standard Devon!!! He is fine with exposing other peoples information on the forum but when it comes to his own its “Boo Hoo Hoo” someone is breaking a HIPPA Law and found out I am Devon from HLA.
As far as the gay comments go. If you take a look at your own posts you will see that you bring it up a lot… I mean a lot. It doesn’t take a shrink and a breached curtain of HIPPA laws to figure out you have thoughts in this area. I Am not saying there is anything wrong with it, Devon.. it’s the same as heterosexual only just the opposite. There is no judgment from me. But why not just lay off the language if it makes you uncomfortable
Or like the time he joined in Karen's crusade to try and find out where Dysfunction worked in an effort to get him fired!
Still avoiding accepting respondsibility Petey? No matter. The longer you refuse to acknowledge the truth, the more truth is going to come to light. Oh, and just to let you in on a little secret. We garnered all this information from your NAMBLA account. You really shouldnt post that sort of information online Peter. or information about who you think I might be. Sorry Whootie, your friends arent as smart as mine.
Anyway, even though I'm not gay I can understand why you might think so, afterall we did completly own your ass. :seg:
Youre right. Brucie does reference alot of gay stuff in his posts. Wonder why he cant stay away from it?
Post by: RobertBruce on July 05, 2009, 10:22:16 PM
How did Matt and Eileen take Mike's suicide Petey?
No distracting from issues you'd rather avoid.
Post by: TheWho on July 06, 2009, 12:07:29 AM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
If you say so.Thank you!
I Do say so!!
Post by: RobertBruce on July 06, 2009, 07:09:59 AM
Why are you such a coward?
This isnt going away Peter. The longer you avoid the truth the more truth will come out.
My fill in the blank question still stands.
The show was over and _____ with.
Post by: Troll Control on July 06, 2009, 08:34:48 AM
Post by: Inculcated on July 06, 2009, 12:33:06 PM
Quote from: "RFG"
[quote="019824684691978-37cIs it hot in here, or is it just Revenge Fantasy Girl?QuoteThis post sequence is a little dyslexic, but accurate none the less.
Play to win.
Oh, and is who really a nationaly associated MBL (look-alike)? For reals?
Post by: Revenge Fantasy Girl on July 06, 2009, 01:24:14 PM
Now who's gonna bring Salomé a picture of it ?
Post by: Troll Control on July 06, 2009, 02:12:32 PM
Quote from: "Revenge Fantasy Girl"
Cute.
Now who's gonna bring Salomé a picture of it ?
RFG, what's your motive here? Do you have some kind of 'revenge fantasy' about TheWho? ASR? SUWS? What?
Post by: Anonymous on July 06, 2009, 02:31:55 PM
Post by: Revenge Fantasy Girl on July 06, 2009, 02:40:10 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
You’re quoting me, yet addressing me as RFG.Quote from: "Revenge Fantasy Girl"Cute.
Now who's gonna bring Salomé a picture of it ?
RFG, what's your motive here? Do you have some kind of 'revenge fantasy' about TheWho? ASR? SUWS? What?
Salomé summed up the sentiment.
Quote from: "Salomé"
As for the demons I pursue in my dreams, well that’s MY happy place and you unnamed are not invited.Quote from: "Guest"Is thewho's identity known? If so, what is it? Guest, why not write a post to the effect of "i think thewho's identity is..." and a link?
Yeah. It’s not like anyone is asking for the head of John the baptist, here. We just want WHO to get pantsed and quit it.
Post by: Troll Control on July 06, 2009, 02:48:34 PM
Quote from: "Revenge Fantasy Girl"
Quote from: "Guest"You’re quoting me, yet addressing me as RFG.Quote from: "Revenge Fantasy Girl"Cute.
Now who's gonna bring Salomé a picture of it ?
RFG, what's your motive here? Do you have some kind of 'revenge fantasy' about TheWho? ASR? SUWS? What?
Salomé summed up the sentiment.Quote from: "Salomé"As for the demons I pursue in my dreams, well that’s MY happy place and you unnamed are not invited.Quote from: "Guest"Is thewho's identity known? If so, what is it? Guest, why not write a post to the effect of "i think thewho's identity is..." and a link?
Yeah. It’s not like anyone is asking for the head of John the baptist, here. We just want WHO to get pantsed and quit it.
Welcome to the fray, Revenge Fantasy Girl.
Post by: TheWho on July 06, 2009, 04:24:11 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 06, 2009, 04:52:47 PM
Quote
Donald Dunbar founded Dunbar Educational Consultants in 1984.Edcon, go figure
Quote
His career in education spans more than 30 years, having served as teacherExplains his matrix comparing programs to regular schools
,
Quote
chaplain,Why are all these guys chaplains?
Quote
coach,Another gym teacher... hey Vause do you know this guy?
Quote
guidance counsellorExplains his edcon training
Quote
and admissions consultant at a number of schools, including St. Paul’s School in New Hampshire, Institut Le Rosey in Switzerland,Ended up helping the industry and supplying statistics.
Quote
Brent School in the Philippines,Remember him laughing at the kid in duct tape and the typhoon. Thats where he got it from.
Quote
the Weston, Massachusetts public schools and Phillips Academy, Andover in Massachusetts.Yep, his ip points to Newton/Weston Massachusetts and his time teaching public school also ties into his use of the matrix comparing public school deaths to programs deaths.
Quote
Don earned his Bachelor’s Degree from Colby College and Master’s Degrees in Literature from Wesleyan University, Theology from the Episcopal Divinity School at Harvard and Education from Boston College.All those nauseating Harvard analogies.
Post by: Anonymous on July 06, 2009, 04:57:43 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Donald M. DunbarQuoteDonald Dunbar founded Dunbar Educational Consultants in 1984.Edcon, go figureQuoteHis career in education spans more than 30 years, having served as teacherExplains his matrix comparing programs to regular schools
,Quotechaplain,Why are all these guys chaplains?Quotecoach,Another gym teacher... hey Vause do you know this guy?
Quoteguidance counsellorExplains his edcon training
Quoteand admissions consultant at a number of schools, including St. Paul’s School in New Hampshire, Institut Le Rosey in Switzerland,Ended up helping the industry and supplying statistics.
QuoteBrent School in the Philippines,Remember him laughing at the kid in duct tape and the typhoon. Thats where he got it from.Quotethe Weston, Massachusetts public schools and Phillips Academy, Andover in Massachusetts.Yep, his ip points to Newton/Weston Massachusetts and his time teaching public school also ties into his use of the matrix comparing public school deaths to programs deaths.QuoteDon earned his Bachelor’s Degree from Colby College and Master’s Degrees in Literature from Wesleyan University, Theology from the Episcopal Divinity School at Harvard and Education from Boston College.All those nauseating Harvard analogies.
So is thewho Peter or Donald Dunbar?
:cheers: :rose:
Post by: Troll Control on July 06, 2009, 06:38:16 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 06, 2009, 07:44:27 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Whooter is Peter, but it looks like Don is a big help!
To robertBruce :cheers: You pulled thru for us!!! Lets expose this fuckin child abuser
Post by: Troll Control on July 06, 2009, 07:47:21 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 06, 2009, 08:05:26 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 06, 2009, 08:25:54 PM
Quote from: "bklaela"
What kind of a moron would post this stuff about a guy whose kid isnt even dead yet? Is this your great way of making a fool out of everyone? Cough up the obituary or cut this shit! What a fuckin' waste of time! :wall: :wall: :bs:
where the fuck is Bruce. moron, He starts a thread and leads everyone to believe he knows who thewho is and has no evidence!!
Post by: Troll Control on July 06, 2009, 08:35:35 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
^^Whootie^^ doing the only thing he knows how to do. :wall:
He's taken it to the next level! Go, Whooter, go! I'm going to bed now, so the rest of the responses will probably just be The Who :beat: :beat: :beat: :beat:
Post by: TheWho on July 06, 2009, 10:03:29 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"^^Whootie^^ doing the only thing he knows how to do. :wall:
He's taken it to the next level! Go, Whooter, go! I'm going to bed now, so the rest of the responses will probably just be The Who :beat: :beat: :beat: :beat:
Thanks guest, we can let Bruce babble on with his anon posts for a few more hours.
Post by: RobertBruce on July 06, 2009, 11:18:06 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 07, 2009, 08:34:24 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"^^Whootie^^ doing the only thing he knows how to do. :wall:
He's taken it to the next level! Go, Whooter, go! I'm going to bed now, so the rest of the responses will probably just be The Who :beat: :beat: :beat: :beat:
Thanks guest, we can let Bruce babble on with his anon posts for a few more hours.
^^Whooter^^ AGAIN.
Post by: TheWho on July 07, 2009, 10:58:17 AM
Quote from: "bklaela"
What kind of a moron would post this stuff about a guy whose kid isnt even dead yet? Is this your great way of making a fool out of everyone? Cough up the obituary or cut this shit! What a fuckin' waste of time! :wall: :wall: :bs:
Hey, my friend, whooter is the moron here. I own his ass and will reveal my sources when I feel like it. I've got him just where I want him and I want to make him sweat first. He is the one making a fool of himself not me. For now lets all call him Pete!!
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2009, 11:03:23 AM
Quote from: "RobertBruce ."
Quote from: "bklaela"What kind of a moron would post this stuff about a guy whose kid isnt even dead yet? Is this your great way of making a fool out of everyone? Cough up the obituary or cut this shit! What a fuckin' waste of time! :wall: :wall: :bs:
Hey, my friend, whooter is the moron here. I own his ass and will reveal my sources when I feel like it. I've got him just where I want him and I want to make him sweat first. He is the one making a fool of himself not me. For now lets all call him Pete!!
Bruce, there's a 90% chance you just conversed with thewho. Don't let the nut bother you
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2009, 11:23:37 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
WELCOME STRANGER .Quote from: "RobertBruce ."Quote from: "bklaela"What kind of a moron would post this stuff about a guy whose kid isnt even dead yet? Is this your great way of making a fool out of everyone? Cough up the obituary or cut this shit! What a fuckin' waste of time! :wall: :wall: :bs:
Hey, my friend, whooter is the moron here. I own his ass and will reveal my sources when I feel like it. I've got him just where I want him and I want to make him sweat first. He is the one making a fool of himself not me. For now lets all call him Pete!!
Bruce, there's a 90% chance you just conversed with thewho. Don't let the nut bother you
Post by: TheWho on July 07, 2009, 11:36:53 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "RobertBruce ."Quote from: "bklaela"What kind of a moron would post this stuff about a guy whose kid isnt even dead yet? Is this your great way of making a fool out of everyone? Cough up the obituary or cut this shit! What a fuckin' waste of time! :wall: :wall: :bs:
Hey, my friend, whooter is the moron here. I own his ass and will reveal my sources when I feel like it. I've got him just where I want him and I want to make him sweat first. He is the one making a fool of himself not me. For now lets all call him Pete!!
Bruce, there's a 90% chance you just conversed with thewho. Don't let the nut bother you
Hey, Pete, your statistics give you away. You are so stupid it is pathetic... there is a 90% chance we know exactly how you post. You are an idiot. Go back to college and finish what you started.
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2009, 11:50:43 AM
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2009, 11:57:05 AM
Quote from: "RobertBruce ."
I'm embarrassed I'm contributing to this. OK, last time you were talking to thewho, this time you were talking to me. Hint: if someone insults you it is probably thewho, when insults “thewho” with no further subtext, it’s probably not. OK. I’m not 3, so no more posts for meQuote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce ."Quote from: "bklaela"What kind of a moron would post this stuff about a guy whose kid isnt even dead yet? Is this your great way of making a fool out of everyone? Cough up the obituary or cut this shit! What a fuckin' waste of time! :wall: :wall: :bs:
Hey, my friend, whooter is the moron here. I own his ass and will reveal my sources when I feel like it. I've got him just where I want him and I want to make him sweat first. He is the one making a fool of himself not me. For now lets all call him Pete!!
Bruce, there's a 90% chance you just conversed with thewho. Don't let the nut bother you
Hey, Pete, your statistics give you away. You are so stupid it is pathetic... there is a 90% chance we know exactly how you post. You are an idiot. Go back to college and finish what you started.
Post by: Troll Control on July 07, 2009, 12:14:27 PM
I'm also curious that if TheWho is Robert, like TheWho says, why is TheWho mad at Robert for outing himself? Makes no sense to me.
Post by: TheWho on July 07, 2009, 12:31:28 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Anybody notice that ol' Petey has not issued a single denial?
I'm also curious that if TheWho is Robert, like TheWho says, why is TheWho mad at Robert for outing himself? Makes no sense to me.
Bruce is trying to make it look like he is not TheWho. Very sad attempt.
Post by: Troll Control on July 07, 2009, 12:35:07 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Anybody notice that ol' Petey has not issued a single denial?
I'm also curious that if TheWho is Robert, like TheWho says, why is TheWho mad at Robert for outing himself? Makes no sense to me.
Bruce is trying to make it look like he is not TheWho. Very sad attempt.
Well, Brucie doesn't seem upset that TheWho has been identified as Peter Dunbar. Only you seem upset. I wonder why?? :cheers:
Post by: TheWho on July 07, 2009, 12:53:37 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Bruce is upset!! He just doesnt log-in when he is ranting.Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Anybody notice that ol' Petey has not issued a single denial?
I'm also curious that if TheWho is Robert, like TheWho says, why is TheWho mad at Robert for outing himself? Makes no sense to me.
Bruce is trying to make it look like he is not TheWho. Very sad attempt.
Well, Brucie doesn't seem upset that TheWho has been identified as Peter Dunbar. Only you seem upset. I wonder why?? :cheers:
Post by: Troll Control on July 07, 2009, 12:58:00 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Anybody notice that ol' Petey has not issued a single denial?
I'm also curious that if TheWho is Robert, like TheWho says, why is TheWho mad at Robert for outing himself? Makes no sense to me.
Bruce is trying to make it look like he is not TheWho. Very sad attempt.
Well, Brucie doesn't seem upset that TheWho has been identified as Peter Dunbar. Only you seem upset. I wonder why?? :cheers:
Again, same question. Why are you so upset?
Post by: TheWho on July 07, 2009, 01:04:56 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Personally, I am not upset at all. I enjoy watching all of this unfold. You dont seem too bothered by it either.Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Anybody notice that ol' Petey has not issued a single denial?
I'm also curious that if TheWho is Robert, like TheWho says, why is TheWho mad at Robert for outing himself? Makes no sense to me.
Bruce is trying to make it look like he is not TheWho. Very sad attempt.
Well, Brucie doesn't seem upset that TheWho has been identified as Peter Dunbar. Only you seem upset. I wonder why?? :cheers:
Again, same question. Why are you so upset?
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2009, 01:18:07 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 07, 2009, 01:31:48 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Okay so I managed to find a Michael Dunbar of Boston that died recently (2002) but it said he was 63 years old. Must be a typo in the Social Security death index. I'm SURE its him!
The kid graduated from ASR in 2004.
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2009, 02:04:19 PM
AND THEN ALL OF YOUSE FUCK YOURSELVES. I DON'T GIVE A SHIT IF THE WHO IS THE SPAWN OF A TWO HEADED JACKAL BITCH AND THE GREAT HORNED BEAST. HE PROBABLY IS, GRANTED. BUT FUCK IT.
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2009, 02:31:59 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Okay so I managed to find a Michael Dunbar of Boston that died recently (2002) but it said he was 63 years old. Must be a typo in the Social Security death index. I'm SURE its him!
The kid graduated from ASR in 2004.
Well, if Michael Dunbar were alive today, he'd be 24 years old. I just find all this so coincidental. It must be him. Why would anyone bring it up unless they were sure?
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2009, 02:41:37 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Well, if Michael Dunbar were alive today, he'd be 24 years old. I just find all this so coincidental. It must be him. Why would anyone bring it up unless they were sure?Quote from: "Guest"Okay so I managed to find a Michael Dunbar of Boston that died recently (2002) but it said he was 63 years old. Must be a typo in the Social Security death index. I'm SURE its him!The kid graduated from ASR in 2004.
According to your specs, Michael Dunbar would be older than his father. Sounds about right.
Post by: TheWho on July 07, 2009, 02:43:14 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Okay so I managed to find a Michael Dunbar of Boston that died recently (2002) but it said he was 63 years old. Must be a typo in the Social Security death index. I'm SURE its him!
The kid graduated from ASR in 2004.
Well, if Michael Dunbar were alive today, he'd be 24 years old. I just find all this so coincidental. It must be him. Why would anyone bring it up unless they were sure?
I dont believe in coincidences it must be him. We know he lives in Massachusetts, is rich and sent his kid to ASR and then the kid offed himself. How many families could this match in the state one or two at the most.
I say it is him. We need to locate the kid who is still alive. I would like to send him a package to let him know what daddy is up to and how screwed up his mother and whole family is. His mother is probably a witch, controlling type and he needs find out about her too. I hate people like that. This is great!! Let me know what else you find.
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2009, 02:49:41 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce ."
I dont believe in coincidences ....Neither do we
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2009, 02:59:10 PM
Post by: Revenge Fantasy Girl on July 07, 2009, 03:09:55 PM
Quote from: "Revenge Fantasy Girlz"
Quote from: "RobertBruce ."I dont believe in coincidences ....Neither do we
Quote from: "Guest"
!I just find all this so coincidental.Neither do I, there are no coincidences.
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2009, 03:20:46 PM
http://www.expedition-outfitters.com/LHS/LHS_Page5.htm (http://www.expedition-outfitters.com/LHS/LHS_Page5.htm)
November 11, 2002
From: Peter Dunbar
Buddy Dave Sampson told me about this site about a year ago, but just recently took a look. Nice work! A quick catch-up: left LHS, got a BA in philosophy from Hobart. One of the last of the Viet Nam Era draftees - was medic in the 1st Infantry. Got into computer programming. Married Ellen Sutcliffe from Bayshore, Long Island. Have two boys: Mike 17 at Academy at Swift River, and Matt 20, a sophomore at UVM. Live in Hamilton, MA. Have worked for Fidelity Investments for 15 years. Currently do quantitative analysis measuring things like direct marketing effectiveness. Keep in touch with Don Bettencourt, Steve Sullivan, and Dave Sampson. Need to reconnect with old buddy Cal Graham. Best to everyone!! Peter
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2009, 03:28:26 PM
where's the obit?
Post by: TheWho on July 07, 2009, 03:43:42 PM
Quote from: "PETER H. DUNBAR"
WELL FUCK ME ALLAH! GIVE ROBERT BRUCE A CIGAR AND PUT THE GIMP MASK ON PETER H. DUNBAR OF HAMILTON, MA! HI PETE YOU WRETCHED PIECE OF SHIT WRAPPED IN HUMAN SKIN. WORK FAST TRYING TO COVER YOUR TRACKS. YOU LIAR. HA, HA, HA. HOLD THE WORM UP TO THE LIGHT OF THE SUN.
I get the credit for this, thank you!!! I will take the cigar.
I want the name and address of the son that is still alive. I want to see his face when I confront him about his family and fucked up mother and father. I will take sick leave from work if I have to. He sat by while his brother suffered and eventually killed himself. I have waited 3 years for this!!!
PM me his name and address dont make it public yet!!
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2009, 03:45:55 PM
Quote from: "PETER H. DUNBAR"
WELL FUCK ME ALLAH! GIVE ROBERT BRUCE A CIGAR AND PUT THE GIMP MASK ON PETER H. DUNBAR OF HAMILTON, MA! HI PETE YOU WRETCHED PIECE OF SHIT WRAPPED IN HUMAN SKIN. WORK FAST TRYING TO COVER YOUR TRACKS. YOU LIAR. HA, HA, HA. HOLD THE WORM UP TO THE LIGHT OF THE SUN.
http://www.expedition-outfitters.com/LHS/LHS_Page5.htm (http://www.expedition-outfitters.com/LHS/LHS_Page5.htm)
November 11, 2002
From: Peter Dunbar
Buddy Dave Sampson told me about this site about a year ago, but just recently took a look. Nice work! A quick catch-up: left LHS, got a BA in philosophy from Hobart. One of the last of the Viet Nam Era draftees - was medic in the 1st Infantry. Got into computer programming. Married Ellen Sutcliffe from Bayshore, Long Island. Have two boys: Mike 17 at Academy at Swift River, and Matt 20, a sophomore at UVM. Live in Hamilton, MA. Have worked for Fidelity Investments for 15 years. Currently do quantitative analysis measuring things like direct marketing effectiveness. Keep in touch with Don Bettencourt, Steve Sullivan, and Dave Sampson. Need to reconnect with old buddy Cal Graham. Best to everyone!! Peter
Is there a photo of MR Dunbar availiable?
Post by: Whobot on July 07, 2009, 03:51:11 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce ."
Quote from: "PETER H. DUNBAR"WELL FUCK ME ALLAH! GIVE ROBERT BRUCE A CIGAR AND PUT THE GIMP MASK ON PETER H. DUNBAR OF HAMILTON, MA! HI PETE YOU WRETCHED PIECE OF SHIT WRAPPED IN HUMAN SKIN. WORK FAST TRYING TO COVER YOUR TRACKS. YOU LIAR. HA, HA, HA. HOLD THE WORM UP TO THE LIGHT OF THE SUN.
I get the credit for this, thank you!!! I will take the cigar.
I want the name and address of the son that is still alive. I want to see his face when I confront him about his family and fucked up mother and father. I will take sick leave from work if I have to. He sat by while his brother suffered and eventually killed himself. I have waited 3 years for this!!!
PM me his name and address dont make it public yet!!
Check your PM's.
Post by: TheWho on July 07, 2009, 03:54:53 PM
Quote from: "Whobot"
Quote from: "RobertBruce ."Quote from: "PETER H. DUNBAR"WELL FUCK ME ALLAH! GIVE ROBERT BRUCE A CIGAR AND PUT THE GIMP MASK ON PETER H. DUNBAR OF HAMILTON, MA! HI PETE YOU WRETCHED PIECE OF SHIT WRAPPED IN HUMAN SKIN. WORK FAST TRYING TO COVER YOUR TRACKS. YOU LIAR. HA, HA, HA. HOLD THE WORM UP TO THE LIGHT OF THE SUN.
I get the credit for this, thank you!!! I will take the cigar.
I want the name and address of the son that is still alive. I want to see his face when I confront him about his family and fucked up mother and father. I will take sick leave from work if I have to. He sat by while his brother suffered and eventually killed himself. I have waited 3 years for this!!!
PM me his name and address dont make it public yet!!
Check your PM's.
Got it thanks!! :deal: :rocker:
Post by: Troll Control on July 07, 2009, 04:21:17 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 07, 2009, 05:04:47 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Wow, full dissociation here, people. TheWho is now trolling himself. I think this is what we all wanted anyway. Let's call it a win! Keep trolling yourself, dipshit. I got stuff to do.
Keep trolling yourself, moron. Why not get a new login instead of posting from the shadows, who,you are pathetic. Its been a good day. I am heading out from work. I'll feed myself and the dogs and maybe log on later tonight.
Post by: TheWho on July 07, 2009, 05:23:24 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce ."
Quote from: "PETER H. DUNBAR"WELL FUCK ME ALLAH! GIVE ROBERT BRUCE A CIGAR AND PUT THE GIMP MASK ON PETER H. DUNBAR OF HAMILTON, MA! HI PETE YOU WRETCHED PIECE OF SHIT WRAPPED IN HUMAN SKIN. WORK FAST TRYING TO COVER YOUR TRACKS. YOU LIAR. HA, HA, HA. HOLD THE WORM UP TO THE LIGHT OF THE SUN.
I get the credit for this, thank you!!! I will take the cigar.
I want the name and address of the son that is still alive. I want to see his face when I confront him about his family and fucked up mother and father. I will take sick leave from work if I have to. He sat by while his brother suffered and eventually killed himself. I have waited 3 years for this!!!
PM me his name and address dont make it public yet!!
Whoa, Bruce, calm down you are a little obsessed with this. We will give you credit, but you need to relax a little and take a breather no one is going anywhere. There is plenty of time to plan things.
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2009, 05:50:43 PM
Quote from: "Revenge Fantasy Girl"
Quote from: "Revenge Fantasy Girlz"Quote from: "RobertBruce ."I dont believe in coincidences ....Neither do weQuote from: "Guest"!I just find all this so coincidental.Neither do I, there are no coincidences.
Whoa, Bruce, are these all your fantasy girls? How many of them are there? :eek:
Post by: Troll Control on July 07, 2009, 05:54:42 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Anybody notice that ol' Petey has not issued a single denial?
I'm also curious that if TheWho is Robert, like TheWho says, why is TheWho mad at Robert for outing himself? Makes no sense to me.
Bruce is trying to make it look like he is not TheWho. Very sad attempt.
Well, Brucie doesn't seem upset that TheWho has been identified as Peter Dunbar. Only you seem upset. I wonder why?? :cheers:
Really, Whooter. Do you think anyone is going to believe that 'RobertBruce .' is RobertBruce? Remember? The kid who you tried to 'out' as 'gay' by publishing his 'treatment plan'? Nigga, please. I enjoy watching you squirm and squirm and post and post so I know that your life has fallen apart. Do you even bother trying to hide this from Ellen anymore? I notice you post a lot from work, but cool off when you get home. Is Ellen mad at you again, Whootie? Poor baby... :waaaa:
Post by: TheWho on July 07, 2009, 06:07:50 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce ."
Quote from: "Guest"Wow, full dissociation here, people. TheWho is now trolling himself. I think this is what we all wanted anyway. Let's call it a win! Keep trolling yourself, dipshit. I got stuff to do.
Keep trolling yourself, moron. Why not get a new login instead of posting from the shadows, who,you are pathetic. Its been a good day. I am heading out from work. I'll feed myself and the dogs and maybe log on later tonight.
Bruce, you need to chill my man. Take the night off from posting, we will still be here. You had a big day.
Post by: Troll Control on July 07, 2009, 06:12:18 PM
Miscalculated by one minute. He already posted while I was typing. Like clockwork, baby!
Post by: Troll Control on July 07, 2009, 06:15:06 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2009, 06:16:44 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
I'm going to send an email to Dunbar EdCon services with a link to this thread so they can have a look at hoe Pete promotes 'the industry.' I'm sure Don will be thrilled to see Pete's legacy here. Anybody else want to send a few emails complaining about how programs get a bad name from the Peter represents parents and EdCons? Please, send them. Don wants to hear from us all.Id love photos and a list of all peter dunbars linked here!!! :)
Post by: RobertBruce on July 07, 2009, 08:04:26 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 07, 2009, 08:45:43 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
I think sending this to Don is an excellent idea. Maybe the people over at Fidelity would like to see it as well. They can see for themselves what they pay Peter to do all day. Hey Pete, remember that time you and Karen wanted to do that to Dysfunction. Remember how funny you thought it was? Cause this is going to be hilarious. In the meantime keep trolling yourself, see if you can win an argument for once.
I can notice a slight panic in Bruces tone. He is slowly starting to realize that TheWho may not be this guy Peter Dunbar. What will he do? Should he start editing his past posts ahead of time just in case? This would be in line with his past MO, but everyone would notice if he did it now. Will DJ come to his side?
Tick,Tick,Tick what should he do? Should he reroute his package to John Rueban before it gets delivered to the wrong guy? or send one to both just in case?
Post by: Troll Control on July 07, 2009, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"John D. Reuben, aka "The Who" (http://http://www.zoominfo.com/Search/PersonDetail.aspx?PersonID=713946382)
Vice President of Sales and Marketing
Correlsense Ltd.
Manager, Worldwide Sales and Marketing Operations
Correlsense Ltd.
Vice President Sales, North America
Prolify Inc
Vice President of Sales and Marketing
Kintana , Inc.
Worldwide Sales Director
Oracle Corporation
Sales and Sales Management Positions
Andersen Consulting
Most importantly:
Board Member
Saving Teens
Founder
Saving Teens
Two sons, one dead from an O.D. Attended ASR.
RB, don't you get why he's not mentioning this???
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 062&sc=249 (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/21/MNREUBENMI33.DTL&hw=collaborator&sn=062&sc=249)
Here's the obit he's been demanding.
Who, don't try to misspell your name to throw people off. You're pinched.
Post by: RobertBruce on July 07, 2009, 09:24:46 PM
Quote
What will he do? Should he start editing his past posts ahead of time just in case? This would be in line with his past MO, but everyone would notice if he did it now.
So says Peter thewho, the guy who has edited more than 100 of his posts. Peter I'm not a coward like you, nor am afraid of the truth like you are. If I'm wrong (I'm not) so be it. I'll accept it and resend the package to your actual address. It's a NAMBLA information packet by the way, I ordered it on your behalf. Better beat Ellen to the mailbox. In any event you're not going to see me edit the name Peter Dunbar for a different name. I embrace accountablility, something you wouldnt understand.
Post by: TheWho on July 07, 2009, 09:25:56 PM
It will be interesting to watch this unfold. Bruce could always run and just never post again. Maybe write a book about his time at HLA, oh wait what interesting tidbits could happen in 2 weeks, I guess he could embellish it a little and Readers Digests accepts stories of 200 words or less so there are some options open to him.
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2009, 10:17:12 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
So Dysfunction Junction is going with John Reuben (sp?) along with Elvis, and Bruce on the other hand is taking a huge risk with sticking with Peter Dunbar... ouch. But I dont think he has any choice at this point. I think it is too late to edit all those posts and change them all to read John Reuben, Bruce. As I said all along you will need to start back pedaling or stand firm against all the facts, Bruce (which has been your option in the past).
It will be interesting to watch this unfold. Bruce could always run and just never post again. Maybe write a book about his time at HLA, oh wait what interesting tidbits could happen in 2 weeks, I guess he could embellish it a little and Readers Digests accepts stories of 200 words or less so there are some options open to him.
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2009, 10:22:11 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 07, 2009, 11:05:47 PM
Post by: RobertBruce on July 07, 2009, 11:08:40 PM
Quote
QuoteSo Dysfunction Junction is going with John Reuben (sp?) along with Elvis, and Bruce on the other hand is taking a huge risk with sticking with Peter Dunbar... ouch. But I dont think he has any choice at this point. I think it is too late to edit all those posts and change them all to read John Reuben, Bruce. As I said all along you will need to start back pedaling or stand firm against all the facts, Bruce (which has been your option in the past).
It will be interesting to watch this unfold. Bruce could always run and just never post again. Maybe write a book about his time at HLA, oh wait what interesting tidbits could happen in 2 weeks, I guess he could embellish it a little and Readers Digests accepts stories of 200 words or less so there are some options open to him.
I still have no need to back peddal Peter, I notice you are though. Not unexpected. Listen, are you a cigar man Peter? I'd be glad to send you one ( 37 Crescent Rd right?) care of the nice little chunk of change Bucci is sending me. Hey, thanks again for finally acknowledging you were wrong and pulled your two week claim completely out of your own ass. It really shows youre growing up.
On that same note youre gonna need to show that posts you made giving Psy permission to link up all your guest posts. I'm not letting you off the hook Peter.
Post by: RobertBruce on July 07, 2009, 11:11:34 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
wow What a day! Peter Dunbar is receiving a NAMBLA package from Brucey (TSW got him into this awhile back, remember Che) and all his associates are getting emails with links to fornits along with a written update on the Dunbar skeletons....His phone and address has been posted openly on the forum "Deborah Style".... A new guy stepped in the room named John Reubens inwhich Dysfunction likes... his personal information will be made public also sometime soon I would guess........ RobertBruce is a mess and is off trying to clean up and decide which way he is going to swing (I think in more ways than one). For now he is going with Dunbar.
Peter, we've been over this. You need to get passed your man crush on me and Dysfunction. Maybe Ellen will share one of her boy friends with you?
On a different note youre gonna need to show that posts you made giving Psy permission to link up all your guest posts. I'm not letting you off the hook Peter.
I'll wait while another personality takes the wheel in your head.
Post by: TheWho on July 07, 2009, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
I still have no need to back peddal Peter, I notice you are though. Not unexpected. Listen, are you a cigar man Peter? I'd be glad to send you one ( 37 Crescent Rd right?) care of the nice little chunk of change Bucci is sending me. Hey, thanks again for finally acknowledging you were wrong and pulled your two week claim completely out of your own ass. It really shows youre growing up.
On that same note youre gonna need to show that posts you made giving Psy permission to link up all your guest posts. I'm not letting you off the hook Peter.
Ah, Bruce no need to be ashamed that you only stopped in a program for a couple weeks. You are fully recognized as a survivor. Ask anyone, even HLA has recognized you. Get comfortable with it.
If you want to link up your guest posts that is fine with me. Let me know when it is done. Then we can go over them.
As far as the back pedal goes..... we will see
Post by: RobertBruce on July 08, 2009, 07:12:50 AM
Post by: TheWho on July 08, 2009, 07:48:40 AM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Oh mine were already done. Remember you saw my two seperate posts where I asked Psy to link up my guest post. Now you claimed you made the same request. Let's see it. I'm not letting you off the hook Peter.
Trying to take the focus off your blunders will not work. You still sticking with Peter? How often do you want people to link up their posts? I have finished. I heard that since you opened up this can of worms and revitalized TheWho thread then you were asked to link up your own posts first..... but you declined.
Lets be honest, Brucey.
Post by: Troll Control on July 08, 2009, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"Oh mine were already done. Remember you saw my two seperate posts where I asked Psy to link up my guest post. Now you claimed you made the same request. Let's see it. I'm not letting you off the hook Peter.
Trying to take the focus off your blunders will not work. You still sticking with Peter? How often do you want people to link up their posts? I have finished. I heard that since you opened up this can of worms and revitalized TheWho thread then you were asked to link up your own posts first..... but you declined.
Lets be honest, Brucey.
"Let's be honest"? What the fuck do you know about honesty, Mr. John David Reuben?
John David Reuben of STICC and SavingTeens.org is TheWho. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=27903)
Please, everyone who cares to, visit as many survivor and TTI forums as you can and link them back here so other people searching for advice on how to deal with their child doesn't fall prey to Mr. Reuben. Educate the public on the type of person who wants their child turned over to him. Name names. Tell the truth.
Post by: Anonymous on July 08, 2009, 04:25:23 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 08, 2009, 04:33:52 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Fornits has made false accusations against innocent people before. I don't have confidence this is TheWho's true identity, and would not smear someone online based on the word of an anonymous fornits source. But that's just me, John David Reuben.
Fixed it for ya, Whooter.
Post by: TheWho on July 08, 2009, 05:05:48 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Fornits has made false accusations against innocent people before. I don't have confidence this is TheWho's true identity, and would not smear someone online based on the word of an anonymous fornits source. But that's just me.
Hey, cut the crap. There is no time to think. We got the bastard cold.... you need to be like a Nazi prison guard now. Just get the guy in the room and fry his ass before this all calms down. Dont ask questions, don’t ask yourself if this is right or wrong. And whatever you do don’t challenge the source!! If we have come this far and everyone else thinks it is so then it must be. If it ends up being the wrong decision we will just say we didn’t know any better or it was just orders from the top.
Dont post shit like that again, its deflating... Lets out this WHO guy once and for all.
Post by: Revenge Fantasy Girl on July 08, 2009, 05:32:23 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
One among many of her kind and each one our own.Quote from: "Revenge Fantasy Girl"Quote from: "Revenge Fantasy Girlz"Quote from: "RobertBruce ."I dont believe in coincidences ....Neither do weQuote from: "Guest"!I just find all this so coincidental.Neither do I, there are no coincidences.
Whoa, Bruce, are these all your fantasy girls? How many of them are there? :eek:
Post by: Revenge Fantasy Girl on July 08, 2009, 05:37:30 PM
Dunbar EdCon services
If these are true WHO’s or even just TTI pimps let’s have some of all of them. Let’s hash out the facts without muddling the message and have it all out and out loud.
Any additional names and facts of the offenders crimes against the youths of the nation should be listed,one by one.
WHO gives a fuck what fucks like WHO get in the mail?
I do to
Post by: Anonymous on July 08, 2009, 05:57:52 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
There was also a "ThéWho" at one point. Where is that guy now??
Post by: Troll Control on July 08, 2009, 06:01:11 PM
Quote from: "quotidian"
Quote from: "Guest"There was also a "ThéWho" at one point. Where is that guy now??
That was somebody trolling TheWho. Like when TheWho trolls "RobertBruce" as "RobertBruce ."
Post by: RobertBruce on July 08, 2009, 07:48:06 PM
Quote
Trying to take the focus off your blunders will not work. You still sticking with Peter? How often do you want people to link up their posts? I have finished. I heard that since you opened up this can of worms and revitalized TheWho thread then you were asked to link up your own posts first..... but you declined.
Lets be honest, Brucey.[/quote
Are you really game for being honest Peter? How about that. I guess there's a first time for everything. Now you're claiming you've already linked up your guest posts. Under which user name?
As to the post made where someone claimed I denied the request to link my posts, well that was just you in a bad costume. I actually asked Psy...twice. Here, let me embarrass you real quick:
http://http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&p=334705&hilit=confusion#p334705QuoteThat then being the case Psy, since I Who appears to still be playing games and claiming that he and I are the same poster, can you link up all those guest postings to each respective name. Who, if you're still on here please help to clear up the confusion and request psy do the same thing with your posts. Hopefully that'll straighten things right uphttp://http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&p=334782&hilit=hide#p334782QuoteIn any event, Psy, since thewho is still playing games can you go ahead and link up all my guest posts under my username? I want to make sure I'm held accountable for all my actions, as I have nothing to hide.
Now, where is the post you made where you asked Psy to link up your posts? I'm not letting you off the hook Peter.
Post by: Anonymous on July 08, 2009, 07:49:50 PM
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
QuoteTrying to take the focus off your blunders will not work. You still sticking with Peter? How often do you want people to link up their posts? I have finished. I heard that since you opened up this can of worms and revitalized TheWho thread then you were asked to link up your own posts first..... but you declined.
Lets be honest, Brucey.[/quote
Are you really game for being honest Peter? How about that. I guess there's a first time for everything. Now you're claiming you've already linked up your guest posts. Under which user name?
As to the post made where someone claimed I denied the request to link my posts, well that was just you in a bad costume. I actually asked Psy...twice. Here, let me embarrass you real quick:
http://http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&p=334705&hilit=confusion#p334705QuoteThat then being the case Psy, since I Who appears to still be playing games and claiming that he and I are the same poster, can you link up all those guest postings to each respective name. Who, if you're still on here please help to clear up the confusion and request psy do the same thing with your posts. Hopefully that'll straighten things right uphttp://http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&p=334782&hilit=hide#p334782QuoteIn any event, Psy, since thewho is still playing games can you go ahead and link up all my guest posts under my username? I want to make sure I'm held accountable for all my actions, as I have nothing to hide.
Now, where is the post you made where you asked Psy to link up your posts? I'm not letting you off the hook Peter.
Apparently, thewho is john rubeun.
Post by: Troll Control on July 08, 2009, 08:25:40 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 13, 2009, 01:08:11 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 13, 2009, 01:13:48 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Has anyone noticed that TheWho is either poorly educated or a non-native English speaker, or both?
That is one of the ways we can recognize him when he is "guest" posting. He can change many things but he cannot overcome nor hide his poor grammer and lack of education.
Post by: Troll Control on July 13, 2009, 03:25:55 PM
First true thing you've said, Whootie. What's your country of origin? You're not American. Probably eastern European judging from the typical spelling errors common to my E.E. friends. What kind of name is "Balaban" anyway?
Post by: TheWho on July 13, 2009, 04:23:02 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 13, 2009, 05:23:28 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
^^Whooter^^
First true thing you've said, Whootie. What's your country of origin? You're not American. Probably eastern European judging from the typical spelling errors common to my E.E. friends. What kind of name is "Balaban" anyway?
Don't want to answer this, huh, Whoot? I can see why.
Post by: Anonymous on July 14, 2009, 05:30:00 PM
Quote from: "psy"
My parents sent me to program because I'm bisexual...[/size]
If you want to remain credible you have to avoid this type of statement. Nobody 'sent' you to a program, because you were 18, right? Big difference between an underage kid with no rights getting escorted to a program, than an 18 year old voluntarily signing themselves in to an adult rehab because their parents pressured them a bit. Your agenda to equate all forms of rehabilitation or group therapy with program abuse is disingenuous. It's time to stop the lying and dramatization, lets get honest.
Post by: Revenge Fantasy Girl on July 14, 2009, 05:45:36 PM
It would probably be easier than typing in that dark closet you're in.
Post by: Anonymous on July 14, 2009, 05:50:18 PM
Quote from: "Revenge Fantasy Girl"
Hi troll. Six minutes ago on another thread you were given the sound advice to go fuck yourself.
It would probably be easier than typing in that dark closet you're in.
I see the truth makes you uncomfortable. That's your issue, not mine. I notice you put the word 'girl' in your user name, which suggests you are either an internet attention whore (read:butt ugly), fat, or a man. I wonder which it is, perhaps a combination of the three. This will occupy my mind for the next 20 seconds at least, enjoy it while it lasts.
Post by: Revenge Fantasy Girl on July 14, 2009, 05:55:14 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 14, 2009, 05:57:39 PM
Quote from: "Revenge Fantasy Girl"
I already announced I am an old Samoan dude. Enjoy your 20 seconds, troll.
I already did. At your expense, girl. :twofinger:
Post by: Revenge Fantasy Girl on July 14, 2009, 06:01:10 PM
You bore me. Bye.
Post by: Anonymous on July 14, 2009, 06:01:41 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 15, 2009, 01:29:16 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"^^Whooter^^
First true thing you've said, Whootie. What's your country of origin? You're not American. Probably eastern European judging from the typical spelling errors common to my E.E. friends. What kind of name is "Balaban" anyway?
Don't want to answer this, huh, Whoot? I can see why.
MR. Balaban sits at home all day posting on Fornits while his wife works. What a pitful creature.
Post by: Troll Control on July 15, 2009, 05:45:59 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 15, 2009, 08:28:19 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Ha, ha, ha. TheWho exposed! I knew he was a house husband!Aw... ya got me... You can call me Mr. Peter Balaban Reuben.... But ya doesnt have to call me Johnson.
Ha,Ha,Ha, Cant believe this thread is still going.
Post by: Troll Control on July 16, 2009, 09:22:01 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Oh mine were already done. Remember you saw my two seperate posts where I asked Psy to link up my guest post. Now you claimed you made the same request. Let's see it. I'm not letting you off the hook Peter.
Trying to take the focus off your blunders will not work. You still sticking with Peter? How often do you want people to link up their posts? I have finished. I heard that since you opened up this can of worms and revitalized TheWho thread then you were asked to link up your own posts first..... but you declined.
Lets be honest, Brucey.
"Let's be honest"? What the fuck do you know about honesty, Mr. John David Reuben?
John David Reuben of STICC and SavingTeens.org is TheWho. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=27903)
Please, everyone who cares to, visit as many survivor and TTI forums as you can and link them back here so other people searching for advice on how to deal with their child doesn't fall prey to Mr. Reuben. Educate the public on the type of person who wants their child turned over to him. Name names. Tell the truth.
Back on topic, please.
Post by: TheWho on July 16, 2009, 10:38:27 AM
As with his usual MO when it comes time to providing proof he slips out the back door.... doesnt look too good for your credibility here.
Post by: Troll Control on July 16, 2009, 11:15:57 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"Oh mine were already done. Remember you saw my two seperate posts where I asked Psy to link up my guest post. Now you claimed you made the same request. Let's see it. I'm not letting you off the hook Peter.
Trying to take the focus off your blunders will not work. You still sticking with Peter? How often do you want people to link up their posts? I have finished. I heard that since you opened up this can of worms and revitalized TheWho thread then you were asked to link up your own posts first..... but you declined.
Lets be honest, Brucey.
"Let's be honest"? What the fuck do you know about honesty, Mr. John David Reuben?
John David Reuben of STICC and SavingTeens.org is TheWho. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=27903)
Yes, indeed he is.
Please, everyone who cares to, visit as many survivor and TTI forums as you can and link them back here so other people searching for advice on how to deal with their child doesn't fall prey to Mr. Reuben. Educate the public on the type of person who wants their child turned over to him. Name names. Tell the truth.
Back on topic, please.
Post by: Troll Control on July 17, 2009, 08:52:25 AM
Post by: Anonymous on July 17, 2009, 01:17:39 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 17, 2009, 01:23:12 PM
or quit typing your troll hate.
I bet I know which one would be easier for you to do.
Post by: Troll Control on July 17, 2009, 01:24:27 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Reading through this thread there seems to be a theme of "raped kids are funny" which is disturbing considering this person claims to be a parent. He's either very sick, or he's not a parent because no parent thinks kids being sexually assaulted is hilarious except him.
I care. This is a disgusting mentality. Especially from a person who sent his dayghter to a facility that employs people who sexually abuse the kids there. To be so flip about it is revealing about what he thinks about kids in general and his own kid in particular.
Post by: Troll Control on July 17, 2009, 01:32:30 PM
Why didn't you listen, Whooter? You could have salvaged your relationship with your kid if you just went to a doctor instead of ASR. Very sad for your child...
Quote
We also know...many youth who have left programs only to get immediately involved in substance abuse, who have been estranged from their families, or who have been unable to deal with the pain and have taken their own lives.
-Dr. Robert Friedman, Psychologist
Hmmmm...This is exactly what happened to TheWho's daughter after ASR, except she hasn't killed herself yet, as so many others have. The natural result of ASR is destruction and death. Too bad Whootie didn't go to a real therapist first. He could have saved his kid and his family a lot of pain.
Post by: Anonymous on July 17, 2009, 01:41:10 PM
It will do this all day without ever realizing that life is what it might make of it and it doesn't need to continue the cycle of perseverating stupidity it's embroiled in. It doesn't know :( joys greater than considering it's self a troll on a roll.
Post by: Anonymous on July 17, 2009, 01:47:14 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 17, 2009, 01:52:01 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
The reason the 'abuse' described on fornits is so funny is because it's just a bunch of whiny rich kids who were no longer treated like royalty as they became accustomed to at home. I sent a link to fornits to some friends of mine and they ALL laughed at what they read here.
:feedtrolls:
Post by: Troll Control on July 17, 2009, 02:00:42 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""Quote from: ""TheWho""Its all perspective. If you take a outdoor person who loves the dirt and hiking and put him in the city it might be comparably tough. Its not the dirt, its taking a kid out of his comfortable environment and allowing him to accomplish something he/she probably never thought they could,i.e, start a fire, cook, hike a few miles and at the same time learn something new about themselves, build self esteem, have a healthy diet. Expose them to something new, It works Niles, its not for everyone, I agree, some get a lot out of it others do not.
Of course it is all just chuckles and giggles and self-esteem building. Just ask the girl who is screaming in pain as they torture her in the video posted earlier.
In your usual avoiding style, you failed to address the video and simply told how wonderful it all was for your daughter.
And Charly actually admits that it took took FIVE WEEKS for her son's anger to wear out. It took them five weeks to break him down.
Charly, Who, did they twist your kids wrists like Lucy in the video? Did your kids scream in pain? Don't say it doesn't happen. I just watched it.
If anyone did that to my kid, they would be answering to me pretty damn quick. I assure you they would regret laying a hand on my boy.
I didn?t ignore it, I guess I am just desensitized because I have seen so much. I dont think anyone is saying it doesnt happen. What I disagree with is that this is regarded as somehow standard, unique to TBS?s or is written into their procedures somehow. Lots of really bad and shocking stuff happens to kids at the local school level, suicide, raped by a teacher, teachers being shot, public humiliation, track coaches forcing kids to run until they drop and some dieing of heart attacks. 10 times worse than twisting wrists. But when a prestigious school or controversial school or program has a problem it is put under a higher powered microscope. I think it is good, though. The more visibility the swifter the change will occur. If this happened at a school my kid was at I would pull her in a heart beat or ask for corrective action.
I am with you......
Where did you see so much violence against children that you became "desensitized"?
Post by: Troll Control on July 17, 2009, 05:17:15 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 17, 2009, 06:16:51 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Another question that goes to your credibility: How can you claim to have seen TheWho in concert in 1973? Your parents let a 13 year-old go to a Who concert? Highly doubtful.
I wont tell you my year of birth. But the concert was in the winter 1973, December I think, and it was at the Spectrum in Philadelphia. It was the Quadrophenia tour. We slept outside all night to get tickets, which you had to do in those days to guarantee seats. They might have had Ticketron but they usually sold out quickly and only had a limited number of tickets (not like today). I was a concert junkie and would (and did) drive anywhere for a tickets if I had the time and money.
Have you ever sat back and cranked up Quadrophenia? If you haven’t you are missing a real treat.
Post by: TheWho on July 17, 2009, 06:46:16 PM
youtube taste (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaO7Dk7wMvs)
Post by: Troll Control on July 17, 2009, 07:57:27 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 17, 2009, 08:18:24 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 19, 2009, 02:48:05 PM
Post by: Anonymous on July 19, 2009, 05:47:04 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"Another question that goes to your credibility: How can you claim to have seen TheWho in concert in 1973? Your parents let a 13 year-old go to a Who concert? Highly doubtful.
I wont tell you my year of birth. But the concert was in the winter 1973, December I think, and it was at the Spectrum in Philadelphia. It was the Quadrophenia tour. We slept outside all night to get tickets, which you had to do in those days to guarantee seats. They might have had Ticketron but they usually sold out quickly and only had a limited number of tickets (not like today). I was a concert junkie and would (and did) drive anywhere for a tickets if I had the time and money.
Have you ever sat back and cranked up Quadrophenia? If you haven’t you are missing a real treat.
He is not lying.
The Who
Tue, 04 December 1973:
Philadelphia, PA, Spectrum
Setlist
I Can't Explain, Summertime Blues, My Wife, My Generation, I Am The Sea, The Real Me, I'm One, Sea And Sand, Drowned, Bell Boy, Dr. Jimmy, Won't Get Fooled Again, Pinball Wizard, See Me Feel Me
I have the bootleg. Maybe you'd like to hear it and get sucked into winsome nostalgia for the bong ripping, program-needing troubled teen you were. A couple huffs off a baggie of airplane glue and a whippit will make it 1973 all over again for you. Then comes the crushing despair of returning to your pathetic present, ya wizened geezer. Your face is more wrinkled than Methuselah's nutsack.
Careful with the whippits. A dried up old liability like you could suffer cardiac arrest from nitrous with glue chasers. It would be such a sad day for Fornits if your black heart seized up and you shuffled off to the bowels of hell.
Post by: Anonymous on July 19, 2009, 05:58:57 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 22, 2009, 07:23:33 AM
Post by: Troll Control on July 22, 2009, 07:31:35 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: ""AtomicAnt""Quote from: ""TheWho""Its all perspective. If you take a outdoor person who loves the dirt and hiking and put him in the city it might be comparably tough. Its not the dirt, its taking a kid out of his comfortable environment and allowing him to accomplish something he/she probably never thought they could,i.e, start a fire, cook, hike a few miles and at the same time learn something new about themselves, build self esteem, have a healthy diet. Expose them to something new, It works Niles, its not for everyone, I agree, some get a lot out of it others do not.
Of course it is all just chuckles and giggles and self-esteem building. Just ask the girl who is screaming in pain as they torture her in the video posted earlier.
In your usual avoiding style, you failed to address the video and simply told how wonderful it all was for your daughter.
And Charly actually admits that it took took FIVE WEEKS for her son's anger to wear out. It took them five weeks to break him down.
Charly, Who, did they twist your kids wrists like Lucy in the video? Did your kids scream in pain? Don't say it doesn't happen. I just watched it.
If anyone did that to my kid, they would be answering to me pretty damn quick. I assure you they would regret laying a hand on my boy.
I didn?t ignore it, I guess I am just desensitized because I have seen so much. I dont think anyone is saying it doesnt happen. What I disagree with is that this is regarded as somehow standard, unique to TBS?s or is written into their procedures somehow. Lots of really bad and shocking stuff happens to kids at the local school level, suicide, raped by a teacher, teachers being shot, public humiliation, track coaches forcing kids to run until they drop and some dieing of heart attacks. 10 times worse than twisting wrists. But when a prestigious school or controversial school or program has a problem it is put under a higher powered microscope. I think it is good, though. The more visibility the swifter the change will occur. If this happened at a school my kid was at I would pull her in a heart beat or ask for corrective action.
I am with you......
Where did you see so much violence against children that you became "desensitized"?
What horrible child abuse have you witnessed, Who? You said it, so explain what you mean.
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2009, 11:01:46 AM
It's got to be, what rational person would ever ask whooter questions and engage a troll in conversation? Right.. nobody would do that, which proves it's whooter talking to 'him'self. If it's not, then wow this person needs to get a life.
Post by: Troll Control on July 22, 2009, 12:01:48 PM
Post by: TheWho on July 22, 2009, 01:53:38 PM
Quote from: "The How"
He is not lying.
The Who
Tue, 04 December 1973:
Philadelphia, PA, Spectrum
Setlist
I Can't Explain, Summertime Blues, My Wife, My Generation, I Am The Sea, The Real Me, I'm One, Sea And Sand, Drowned, Bell Boy, Dr. Jimmy, Won't Get Fooled Again, Pinball Wizard, See Me Feel Me
That brings back memories. “Wont get fooled again” lasted about 15 minutes if I remember correctly. There was about a 5 minute keyboard solo in the middle where all the lights were turned out and you couldn’t see the person next to you. When Moon ramped it up and the lights came on onstage, Pete Townshend was in mid-air (apparently from a running start) and slid across the stage on his knees playing.... words cant even describe the energy and emotion they brought to that building that night. He ended up smashing his Les Paul that night.
Thanks for finding the play list!
Post by: Troll Control on July 22, 2009, 07:52:38 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Just answer the question and can the nonsense, dude. You made this statement that you are'desensitized' because you've 'seen so much' so I just want to know what you experienced that traumatized you so much.
Where'd you get traumatized by the abuse you've witnessed?
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2009, 09:51:07 PM
You suck cock and that's an issue you NEED to seek therapy for.
Sincerely,
Mr. Asshole
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2009, 10:03:07 PM
Quote from: "Who, suck a cock you homo!"
You suck cock and that's an issue you NEED to seek therapy for.
There's no need to bring psy into this.
Post by: RobertBruce on July 22, 2009, 10:51:08 PM
After that we're going to need to see the post where you gave permission to have your posts linked up. I'm not letting you off the hook Peter.
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2009, 11:40:39 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Here's why TheWho is so interested in HLA and how he got RB's treatment information from HLA:
http://http://www.plaxo.com/directory/profile/214749268482/b8f0863f/Jeff/Holloway
TheWho IS John Reuben and John Reuben is deeply connected to HLA professionally as well as locking his kid up there.
Now, Who, please explain exactly how Holloway came to give you RB's privacy law-protected information.
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"John Reuben is The Who, in case you're not up to speed. He posts here plenty.
Well, I guess you could call me John or Peter or even Alan Newman if you like. I am called all three... also previously went by "thewho".
Quote from: "Guest"
It looks like a "disorderly conduct" arrest. Anyone have any other info on what this guy did to get arrested for DC???
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Pete, Why dont you embrace a little accountablility for once in your life and answer the questions.Why isn’t there a thread for Peter? Why not one for Alan? Why is there so much “Who” talk addressed to Peter on John D. Rueban program pimp thread?
After that we're going to need to see the post where you gave permission to have your posts linked up. I'm not letting you off the hook Peter.
If it's only your intention to keep this topic as confusing as it is then by all means, as you were.
If you’d like to state your case about “Peter”, then do it in a way that isn’t just some pissy back and forth retorts that go on for pages and pages.
:-
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2009, 11:40:39 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Here's why TheWho is so interested in HLA and how he got RB's treatment information from HLA:
http://http://www.plaxo.com/directory/profile/214749268482/b8f0863f/Jeff/Holloway
TheWho IS John Reuben and John Reuben is deeply connected to HLA professionally as well as locking his kid up there.
Now, Who, please explain exactly how Holloway came to give you RB's privacy law-protected information.
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"John Reuben is The Who, in case you're not up to speed. He posts here plenty.
Well, I guess you could call me John or Peter or even Alan Newman if you like. I am called all three... also previously went by "thewho".
Quote from: "Guest"
It looks like a "disorderly conduct" arrest. Anyone have any other info on what this guy did to get arrested for DC???
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Pete, Why dont you embrace a little accountablility for once in your life and answer the questions.Why isn’t there a thread for Peter? Why not one for Alan? Why is there so much “Who” talk addressed to Peter on John D. Rueban program pimp thread?
After that we're going to need to see the post where you gave permission to have your posts linked up. I'm not letting you off the hook Peter.
If it's only your intention to keep this topic as confusing as it is then by all means, as you were.
If you’d like to state your case about “Peter”, then do it in a way that isn’t just some pissy back and forth retorts that go on for pages and pages.
:-
Post by: TheWho on July 23, 2009, 10:39:11 AM
Post by: Troll Control on July 23, 2009, 11:54:36 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Thewho said he isnt going to respond to RobertBruce anyomre until Bruce reveals his "Guest" posts. We know Bruce wont do that because his guest posting is bigger than thewhos.
#1 that's not true. RB doesn't post anon. Sorry, but he just doesn't. TheWho just thinks every anon is RB.
#2 I am not RB and just asked TheWho to explain why he's desensitized to child abuse.
Maybe this is why he sent both his sons to programs. Because he's desensitized to child abuse, he doesn't understand his boys were abused. One's dead, so that should be a clue for him.
Post by: TheWho on July 23, 2009, 12:23:17 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Okay Bruce. calm down. If you want us to believe you dont guest post we will. But it would be so easy to just have your guest posts strung together just to prove that child molester wrong. I for one am starting to believe you are lying about posting anon. Why not just do it? What do you have to lose? (If you are telling the truth)Quote from: "Guest"Thewho said he isnt going to respond to RobertBruce anyomre until Bruce reveals his "Guest" posts. We know Bruce wont do that because his guest posting is bigger than thewhos.
#1 that's not true. RB doesn't post anon. Sorry, but he just doesn't. TheWho just thinks every anon is RB.
#2 I am not RB and just asked TheWho to explain why he's desensitized to child abuse.
Maybe this is why he sent both his sons to programs. Because he's desensitized to child abuse, he doesn't understand his boys were abused. One's dead, so that should be a clue for him.
Post by: Troll Control on July 23, 2009, 12:27:04 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 23, 2009, 06:20:08 PM
Post by: Troll Control on July 24, 2009, 07:47:12 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
I'm still not Bruce. And I still want to hear where you've experienced so much horrific child abuse that you're desensitized. Just answer that simple question and then you and Brucie can go back to bickering as usual.
Where were you abusing these kids, Who?
Post by: Troll Control on August 10, 2009, 05:50:29 PM
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 12:58:39 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
sorry, Brucie, you will just need to grow up and face that fact that TheWho is gone. you are chasing a ghost.
Quote from: "TheWho"
I think this is a good time to let this thread drift back to the bottom. Go look for a job or do something constructive, Brucie.
Adios
Going back thru this thread after The Who's posts were linked up to his anon posts is very enlightening. :seg: :rofl:
Post by: Froderik on August 27, 2010, 01:08:24 PM
I hope you and DJ (and whoever else happens to be up to the task) succeed in BURYING this annoying piece of shit troll once and for all. I'm not holding my breath, but hoping and praying that these are the last days of this program-pushing shill.
NEVER GIVE UP!!!! :fuckoff:
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 01:13:44 PM
Quote from: "Froderik"
Glad you're back Anne.
I hope you and DJ (and whoever else happens to be up to the task) succeed in BURYING this annoying piece of shit troll once and for all. I'm not holding my breath, but hoping and praying that these are the last days of this program-pushing shill.
Thanks! More props to DJ though....I just come along and add to the mix. ;)
Quote
NEVER GIVE UP!!!! :fuckoff:
Oh HELL noes!! :rocker:
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 02:05:20 PM
Quote from: "Deborah"
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Deborah""Who,
Did you participate in the survey?
Is your daughter considered on of Aspen's successes?
No I dont think so. I filled out a follow-up of some sort but it was short, not much feedback was asked for, so I dont think it was a survey.
I dont know if she is considered one of their successes or not. We had a show contact us and asked if we would be interested in being interviewed. But we didnt do it.
Oh that's right. She was in the 98% who fail, and go back to drugs, then moved away and didn't speak to you for two years.
But, hey, she did catch up academically, which please you, but then never went to college.
That does sound like the typical success story.
Hmm... not sure where that is coming from or means. I think that you asked me if I filled out a survey or not. Guess I should have stuck to "No"
Mmmm. Got it from you
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... ter#163947 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=163947&highlight=daughter#163947)
But anyway my daughter would fall into your 98% who go back to drugs (statistically) but long term the kids that finish at ASR do much better. Academically she was way ahead when she returned
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... &start=435 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=daughter&start=435)
There basically isnt any and she regressed like a slingshot as soon as she got home and wanted to experience everything she missed. I.e. smoked cigarettes, smoked pot., drank, stay out late etc. but after a few weeks she realized there were things she wanted to do with her life and started to move on. She still drinks and smokes pot etc, but in moderation.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... ter#160456 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=160456&highlight=daughter#160456)
Exactly what happened. My daughter moved to NYC and I only heard from her once in 2 years, still never went to school.
See how much ASR helped his "daughter" and their relationship?
Post by: shaggys on August 27, 2010, 02:29:57 PM
Post by: Froderik on August 27, 2010, 02:55:11 PM
Quote from: "shaggys"
I can see the immense benefits of treatment now. Look at what it did for Whooters family. What a crock of shit. Just here to cheer on Anne and DJ. Yes I do believe in kicking a fucker when hes down and Whooter is definently been knocked down a peg or three in the last 48 hours. Excellent work group.
:rocker: :rocker: :rocker:
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 03:08:12 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:29 am Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first. We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently. Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.
???? WTF is this?
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 03:29:14 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
TheWho admits that he enjoys making fun of the personal testimonies of sexual abuse victims.
He admits he finds one of the most detailed and horrifying accounts "struck him as a little funny".
He copy/pasted the most graphic part of this survivor's testimony.
Then added his own comments in a sadistic attempt at humor. The
day after the survivor posted their original story.
TheWho posted in response to one guest as a way to "Get back at that guest" and "try to be funny".
He failed at both.
He did, however, manage to show his true nature, decide for yourself.
In an earlier post he claims he would believe a survivor if he knew nothing of the facility (as in this case).
A confirmed lie.
He will not just disbelieve a survivor. He will copy/paste their words.
Add his own jokes about sexual and physical abuse in captivity.
A truly disgusting spectacle of immaturity by TheWho.
The Who admits to finding testimony of sexual and physical abuse "a little funny" and is a confirmed liar.
Copy/pasted from this thread of post made Sat Apr 14, 2007
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
TheWho writes the next day Sun Apr 15, 2007 in response to a guest:Quote from: ""TheWho""Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80[/url]
Why would TheWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse? The comments int he parenthesis are TheWho's, the rest was copy/pasted from a survivor testimony posted one day earlier, detailing sexual abuse and other horrible forms of abuse.Quote from: ""TheWho""There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
He disgustingly uses the most graphic details of a survivor's abuse story to make jokes. He is making fun of a child abuse victim who is explaining they were sexually abused, and he makes fun of the very next day. TheWho has some maturing to do!Quote from: ""TheWho""If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
He is also a CONFIRMED liar.
"Who" finds detailed accounts of sexual and physical abuse in captivity funny and then uses it in their posts to make jokes???
Talk about SLEEZY! :roll:
Post by: Troll Control on August 27, 2010, 03:39:03 PM
Quote from: "Deborah"
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Deborah""Who,
Did you participate in the survey?
Is your daughter considered on of Aspen's successes?
No I dont think so. I filled out a follow-up of some sort but it was short, not much feedback was asked for, so I dont think it was a survey.
I dont know if she is considered one of their successes or not. We had a show contact us and asked if we would be interested in being interviewed. But we didnt do it.
Oh that's right. She was in the 98% who fail, and go back to drugs, then moved away and didn't speak to you for two years.
But, hey, she did catch up academically, which please you, but then never went to college.
That does sound like the typical success story.
Hmm... not sure where that is coming from or means. I think that you asked me if I filled out a survey or not. Guess I should have stuck to "No"
Mmmm. Got it from you
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... ter#163947 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=163947&highlight=daughter#163947)
But anyway my daughter would fall into your 98% who go back to drugs (statistically) but long term the kids that finish at ASR do much better. Academically she was way ahead when she returned
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... &start=435 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=daughter&start=435)
There basically isnt any and she regressed like a slingshot as soon as she got home and wanted to experience everything she missed. I.e. smoked cigarettes, smoked pot., drank, stay out late etc. but after a few weeks she realized there were things she wanted to do with her life and started to move on. She still drinks and smokes pot etc, but in moderation.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... ter#160456 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=160456&highlight=daughter#160456)
Exactly what happened. My daughter moved to NYC and I only heard from her once in 2 years, still never went to school.
Sweet. He went back and changed it that fucking phony.
Can someone see if they can get te original from cache or wayback?
Whooter you fucking liar.
Post by: Troll Control on August 27, 2010, 03:42:00 PM
Quote from: "Deborah"
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Deborah""Who,
Did you participate in the survey?
Is your daughter considered on of Aspen's successes?
No I dont think so. I filled out a follow-up of some sort but it was short, not much feedback was asked for, so I dont think it was a survey.
I dont know if she is considered one of their successes or not. We had a show contact us and asked if we would be interested in being interviewed. But we didnt do it.
Oh that's right. She was in the 98% who fail, and go back to drugs, then moved away and didn't speak to you for two years.
But, hey, she did catch up academically, which please you, but then never went to college.
That does sound like the typical success story.
Hmm... not sure where that is coming from or means. I think that you asked me if I filled out a survey or not. Guess I should have stuck to "No"
Mmmm. Got it from you
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... ter#163947 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=163947&highlight=daughter#163947)
But anyway my daughter would fall into your 98% who go back to drugs (statistically) but long term the kids that finish at ASR do much better. Academically she was way ahead when she returned
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... &start=435 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=daughter&start=435)
There basically isnt any and she regressed like a slingshot as soon as she got home and wanted to experience everything she missed. I.e. smoked cigarettes, smoked pot., drank, stay out late etc. but after a few weeks she realized there were things she wanted to do with her life and started to move on. She still drinks and smokes pot etc, but in moderation.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... ter#160456 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=160456&highlight=daughter#160456)
Exactly what happened. My daughter moved to NYC and I only heard from her once in 2 years, still never went to school.
Sweet. He went back and changed it that fucking phony.
Can someone see if they can get te original from cache or wayback?
Whooter you fucking liar.
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 03:48:13 PM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Sweet. He went back and changed it that fucking phony.
Can someone see if they can get te original from cache or wayback?
Whooter you fucking liar.
In the thread (The Who) he claimed it was someone else posting as him.
Post by: Botched Programming on August 27, 2010, 03:57:10 PM
Post by: Troll Control on August 27, 2010, 04:13:04 PM
Post by: Froderik on August 27, 2010, 04:23:37 PM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
@Anne-posts were linked up. No way to fake that. He's done.
Fuckin' A!! :rocker:
Bye, Whooter!!! :clown:
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 04:25:25 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Should lock out editing for a couple days until all research is done !!!!
I think the only ones he can go back and edit now (which I'm sure he's doing) are the Whooter ones. IIRC, his "The Who" account was auctioned off to the highest bidder with his permission.
@ DJ.....yeah, I know. Just shows more and more the lengths he'll go to. Pathetic.
Post by: Pile of shit on August 27, 2010, 04:28:17 PM
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 04:45:33 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: ""RobertBruce""QuoteTry to get as much information as you can. Talk to your childs therapist, school counselor, talk to parents who had kids graduate from the schools you are considering and make an informed and balanced decision. These people have had experience with the system and can answer your specific questions.
Notice he never suggest "talk to your child". There inlies the difference between those of us who know what these places are and recognize the truths about them, and people like the Who, who neither want nor have a clue.
What the hell does "inlies" mean? I may not always agree with thewho, but you need to communicate a little better than that. Your response doesnt make any sense. It sounds like you are saying that some kids that go to the schools lie about what happens there to get attention or try to make the schools look bad because they are pissed off at their parents.
I am sure this happens sometimes but it is off topic. Thewho was talking about ways to get sound/unbiased advice for their kids.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=2640#p263399 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=2640#p263399)
Ugggghhhhh. There aren't enough eyes in the world to roll. ::) ::) ::) ::)
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 04:57:32 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Just keep posting his stupid matrix and maybe he will get banned again for flooding.
Quote from: "TheWho"
We need to discredit this guy as much as we can.. someone come up with something so no one will believe what he says.
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 05:07:29 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
to the who, Why dont you make your information part of your footer like some of the other people do. Then we will know it is your data and not a troll or look alike page.
Quote from: "TheWho"
I am very confused, can you fix it so I can click on the program and see the details? It says in the post that you can do this but it is not working. This is the only way I can beleive the data, there is so much being posted.
Thank you.
Edited to add more, which means I'm gonna be editing this a lot I guess.
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: ""Guest""to the who, Why dont you make your information part of your footer like some of the other people do. Then we will know it is your data and not a troll or look alike page.
What do you think? check out the footer.. cool ? Not sure which email was yours, but thanks for your feed back.
...
Awww, how cute....he's thanking himself!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Quote from: "TheWho"
Thewho When will the data be out for 2005, 2006? I think there were a couple kids who died during that time period.
Post by: Troll Control on August 27, 2010, 05:09:59 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Botched Programming"Should lock out editing for a couple days until all research is done !!!!
I think the only ones he can go back and edit now (which I'm sure he's doing) are the Whooter ones. IIRC, his "The Who" account was auctioned off to the highest bidder with his permission.
@ DJ.....yeah, I know. Just shows more and more the lengths he'll go to. Pathetic.
Yeppers. And I qfted a bunch of them already too.
We got a bonus 3,000 TheWho posts in the deal and he's powerless to change those ones.
Craziest finding? 1,700 plus posts in just 58 days as Whooter. It's pathological really.
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 05:15:56 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Wow....he was a busy little schizo, wasn't he? I wonder if he walks around the house arguing with himself?Quote from: "TheWho"to the who, Why dont you make your information part of your footer like some of the other people do. Then we will know it is your data and not a troll or look alike page.Quote from: "TheWho"I am very confused, can you fix it so I can click on the program and see the details? It says in the post that you can do this but it is not working. This is the only way I can beleive the data, there is so much being posted.
Thank you.
Edited to add more, which means I'm gonna be editing this a lot I guess.Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: ""Guest""to the who, Why dont you make your information part of your footer like some of the other people do. Then we will know it is your data and not a troll or look alike page.
What do you think? check out the footer.. cool ? Not sure which email was yours, but thanks for your feed back.
...
Awww, how cute....he's thanking himself!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:Quote from: "TheWho"
Thewho When will the data be out for 2005, 2006? I think there were a couple kids who died during that time period.
Woops, more and more.......
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "TheWho"I remember you. You use to be friends with Dysfunction Junction from HLA, sort of like his little side kick. Then you started trolling TheWho. I thought you left and got a job a long time ago. Why dont you log in anymore? Why dont you troll thewho while logged in?
Yeah, its me. I lost my password so I dont log in anymore, but I am still determined to get thewho banned again. I will just keep posting these posts anon, until the people understand that he needs to go, even if I have to make them up as I go.
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 05:18:39 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""quest""I remember you. You use to be friends with Dysfunction Junction from HLA, sort of like his little side kick. Then you started trolling TheWho. I thought you left and got a job a long time ago. Why dont you log in anymore? Why dont you troll thewho while logged in?
Yeah, its me. I lost my password so I dont log in anymore, but I am still determined to get thewho banned again. I will just keep posting these posts anon, until the people understand that he needs to go, even if I have to make them up as I go.
did you ever get a job? I remember you use to sit home all day while your wife worked and then you stopped posting here. We all figured you finally started working. You really had it out for thewho I remember. Did you get fired?
Well, I lost my job because my boss was a jerk and didnt understand that I needed more time off than the others did, long story. So while I am waiting for another job to come along I fugured I would hound Thewho. I hate that programmie. did you like what I did with his Matrix? I think it really pissed him off cause he stopped posting it.
RobertBruce you should probably try to find something else to pass the time. By posting the fake numers of his matrix thewho decided to place a link on his footer. Now every post that he makes has a link to his so called famous Matrix. So your plan backfired. Why dont you get a new log in and start doing something positive with your time. Look at your friend DJ he went back to school. Maybe you could do something like that until you find more work instead of spending your time trying to make TheWho look bad. Just a suggestion.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=2775#p301193 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=2775#p301193)
All those "guest" posts are him talking to himself in a vain attempt to discredit RB.
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 05:23:26 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
I believe it is mostly RobertBruce aka Devon from HLA who is trolling thewhore. He cant sign in because he forgot his password so he is posting all anon now.
He is just picking up where he left off (minus the avatar)
Ah, here he "outs" RB while posting anon and calling himself "thewhore". I wonder if he gets dizzy trying to keep up with all that?
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 05:27:09 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""Not Bain. Bain is an asset management (financial services) company.
He's likely to be hired directly by Aspen or the mother ship CRC Health Group (http://www.crchealth.com/aspen-education.asp (http://www.crchealth.com/aspen-education.asp)).
You can reach him at
Toll Free Phone: (877)637-6237
Local Phone: (408)998-7260
He's the next cube over from
Jim Dredge President
Patty Evans Chief Marketing Officer, Senior Vice President
Sue Crowell Senior Vice President, Outdoor Education Programs
Mark Dorenfeld Senior Vice President, Residential Schools and Programs
Ruth Moore Senior Vice President, Corporate Compliance
Bo Turner Senior Vice President, Residential Schools and Programs
Thomas Hopkins Vice President and Controller
We should catch a sharks game and then go protest outside of their building.
If you even think about showing up you will regret it... you will wish you were back at CEDU when I get done with you.... you misbegotten motley-minded moldwarp.... but if you get past Bo's office, take left and if you get that far it will be my treat at the Sharks game (up to 12 people can sit in our Box).
...
:eek:
Post by: Joel on August 27, 2010, 05:38:00 PM
Post by: shaggys on August 27, 2010, 05:40:31 PM
BTW If I live to be 1000 years old I will never forget the complete destruction of the SUCK IT/Maximillian creature yesterday. It was probably the coolest thing to happen here in many moons. The good guys do win sometimes.
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 05:49:16 PM
Quote from: "Joel"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: ""dishdutyfugitive""Not Bain. Bain is an asset management (financial services) company.
He's likely to be hired directly by Aspen or the mother ship CRC Health Group (http://www.crchealth.com/aspen-education.asp (http://www.crchealth.com/aspen-education.asp)).
You can reach him at
Toll Free Phone: (877)637-6237
Local Phone: (408)998-7260
He's the next cube over from
Jim Dredge President
Patty Evans Chief Marketing Officer, Senior Vice President
Sue Crowell Senior Vice President, Outdoor Education Programs
Mark Dorenfeld Senior Vice President, Residential Schools and Programs
Ruth Moore Senior Vice President, Corporate Compliance
Bo Turner Senior Vice President, Residential Schools and Programs
Thomas Hopkins Vice President and Controller
We should catch a sharks game and then go protest outside of their building.
If you even think about showing up you will regret it... you will wish you were back at CEDU when I get done with you.... you misbegotten motley-minded moldwarp.... but if you get past Bo's office, take left and if you get that far it will be my treat at the Sharks game (up to 12 people can sit in our Box).
...
:eek:
What CEDU school was Whooter talking about?
I believe "Dushdutyfugitive" went to a CEDU program (If I remember correctly). That was a funny back and forth when I invited him to the Sharks game after a protest.
It would be fun to go back and read some of those flame threads.
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 05:56:14 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
It would be fun to go back and read some of those flame threads.
Yes, it's quite enlightening. I'm curious....why did you think it was fun or acceptable to make fun of a survivor?
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=2565#p261982 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=2565#p261982)Quote from: "Guest"TheWho admits that he enjoys making fun of the personal testimonies of sexual abuse victims.
He admits he finds one of the most detailed and horrifying accounts "struck him as a little funny".
He copy/pasted the most graphic part of this survivor's testimony.
Then added his own comments in a sadistic attempt at humor. The
day after the survivor posted their original story.
TheWho posted in response to one guest as a way to "Get back at that guest" and "try to be funny".
He failed at both.
He did, however, manage to show his true nature, decide for yourself.
In an earlier post he claims he would believe a survivor if he knew nothing of the facility (as in this case).
A confirmed lie.
He will not just disbelieve a survivor. He will copy/paste their words.
Add his own jokes about sexual and physical abuse in captivity.
A truly disgusting spectacle of immaturity by TheWho.
The Who admits to finding testimony of sexual and physical abuse "a little funny" and is a confirmed liar.
Copy/pasted from this thread of post made Sat Apr 14, 2007
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
TheWho writes the next day Sun Apr 15, 2007 in response to a guest:Quote from: ""TheWho""Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80[/url]
Why would TheWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse? The comments int he parenthesis are TheWho's, the rest was copy/pasted from a survivor testimony posted one day earlier, detailing sexual abuse and other horrible forms of abuse.Quote from: ""TheWho""There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
He disgustingly uses the most graphic details of a survivor's abuse story to make jokes. He is making fun of a child abuse victim who is explaining they were sexually abused, and he makes fun of the very next day. TheWho has some maturing to do!Quote from: ""TheWho""If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
He is also a CONFIRMED liar.
"Who" finds detailed accounts of sexual and physical abuse in captivity funny and then uses it in their posts to make jokes???
Talk about SLEEZY! :roll:
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 06:24:48 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"It would be fun to go back and read some of those flame threads.
Yes, it's quite enlightening. I'm curious....why did you think it was fun or acceptable to make fun of a survivor?Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=2565#p261982 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=2565#p261982)Quote from: "Guest"TheWho admits that he enjoys making fun of the personal testimonies of sexual abuse victims.
He admits he finds one of the most detailed and horrifying accounts "struck him as a little funny".
He copy/pasted the most graphic part of this survivor's testimony.
Then added his own comments in a sadistic attempt at humor. The
day after the survivor posted their original story.
TheWho posted in response to one guest as a way to "Get back at that guest" and "try to be funny".
He failed at both.
He did, however, manage to show his true nature, decide for yourself.
In an earlier post he claims he would believe a survivor if he knew nothing of the facility (as in this case).
A confirmed lie.
He will not just disbelieve a survivor. He will copy/paste their words.
Add his own jokes about sexual and physical abuse in captivity.
A truly disgusting spectacle of immaturity by TheWho.
The Who admits to finding testimony of sexual and physical abuse "a little funny" and is a confirmed liar.
Copy/pasted from this thread of post made Sat Apr 14, 2007
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21209)
TheWho writes the next day Sun Apr 15, 2007 in response to a guest:Quote from: ""TheWho""Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=80[/url]
Why would TheWho copy/paste this from a survivor's story and add his own disgusting comments and make fun of child abuse? The comments int he parenthesis are TheWho's, the rest was copy/pasted from a survivor testimony posted one day earlier, detailing sexual abuse and other horrible forms of abuse.Quote from: ""TheWho""There was an event that struck me as kind of absurd and a little funny, at the time, that’s all.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21604&start=10)
He disgustingly uses the most graphic details of a survivor's abuse story to make jokes. He is making fun of a child abuse victim who is explaining they were sexually abused, and he makes fun of the very next day. TheWho has some maturing to do!Quote from: ""TheWho""If you talk about being abused in a facility I know nothing about, I will believe you.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=12820&start=120)
He is also a CONFIRMED liar.
"Who" finds detailed accounts of sexual and physical abuse in captivity funny and then uses it in their posts to make jokes???
Talk about SLEEZY! :roll:
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 06:33:25 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "New Guest"Thanks aghast, Actually the article you posted was one of the reasons we chose an Aspen school. If you notice the date of the article was 1991 and as soon as Aspen found out about the problem they fired the girl on the spot (see the last few lines of the article). I like a school that doesn’t tolerate abusive staff and has a couple decades of experience. If that happened in your typical local public school the teacher would hang around forever trying to sue the school system claiming tenure or move to a different school system etc. Aspen doesn’t allow that.
To thewho: I called the Academy and they are allowing me to get the bonus points for the escort and I receive 10 bonus points for every day I don’t call the school and 1,000 bonus points if I pay for the whole year in advance. This is great!! I am saving for the Aspen “GPS promise ring” for my daughter.
Your welcome, New Guest, sorry for that outburst but I think thewho is an asshole who refuses to name a good program but it does seem that AAA was a good fit for your daughter so it was a good suggestion on his part. After I followed up on that article I have to admit that thewho was right and I have never been a fan of the public school system either, but there will never come the day that I like him. Good luck with you and your daughter.
So, he was posting as Aghast then too?
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 06:35:38 PM
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3225#p315131 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3225#p315131)
Quote from: "New Guest"
Quote from: "aghast"Quote from: "New Guest"Thanks aghast, Actually the article you posted was one of the reasons we chose an Aspen school. If you notice the date of the article was 1991 and as soon as Aspen found out about the problem they fired the girl on the spot (see the last few lines of the article). I like a school that doesn’t tolerate abusive staff and has a couple decades of experience. If that happened in your typical local public school the teacher would hang around forever trying to sue the school system claiming tenure or move to a different school system etc. Aspen doesn’t allow that.
To thewho: I called the Academy and they are allowing me to get the bonus points for the escort and I receive 10 bonus points for every day I don’t call the school and 1,000 bonus points if I pay for the whole year in advance. This is great!! I am saving for the Aspen “GPS promise ring” for my daughter.
Your welcome, New Guest, sorry for that outburst but I think thewho is an asshole who refuses to name a good program but it does seem that AAA was a good fit for your daughter so it was a good suggestion on his part. After I followed up on that article I have to admit that thewho was right and I have never been a fan of the public school system either, but there will never come the day that I like him. Good luck with you and your daughter.
I didn't write that! This who person is not balanced! I would never send my child to a place where a crime like that occurred. Seventeen years ago or a hundred years ago!
Edited to add: and then tries to cover his ass. Again.
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "New Guest"Quote from: "aghast"Quote from: "New Guest"Thanks aghast, Actually the article you posted was one of the reasons we chose an Aspen school. If you notice the date of the article was 1991 and as soon as Aspen found out about the problem they fired the girl on the spot (see the last few lines of the article). I like a school that doesn’t tolerate abusive staff and has a couple decades of experience. If that happened in your typical local public school the teacher would hang around forever trying to sue the school system claiming tenure or move to a different school system etc. Aspen doesn’t allow that.
To thewho: I called the Academy and they are allowing me to get the bonus points for the escort and I receive 10 bonus points for every day I don’t call the school and 1,000 bonus points if I pay for the whole year in advance. This is great!! I am saving for the Aspen “GPS promise ring” for my daughter.
Your welcome, New Guest, sorry for that outburst but I think thewho is an asshole who refuses to name a good program but it does seem that AAA was a good fit for your daughter so it was a good suggestion on his part. After I followed up on that article I have to admit that thewho was right and I have never been a fan of the public school system either, but there will never come the day that I like him. Good luck with you and your daughter.
I didn't write that! This who person is not balanced! I would never send my child to a place where a crime like that occurred. Seventeen years ago or a hundred years ago!
New Guest, You didnt write any of that?? I wish I knew earlier I just reamed out thewho for no reason. I still hate public schools but thewho isnt as bad as I thought, sorry who.
Post by: Troll Control on August 27, 2010, 06:47:04 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "ThéWho"Well, I guess you have a point. I get really mixed up sometimes when I am with my roommate. But I used "aghast" and he went ahead and logged in under that name and now I cant use it. Its a sound he knows that only I make. I think he is mocking me with his posts and I dont think it is clever at all. it is hurtfulQuote from: "aghast."I said that!! I am not your fucking roommate. You really suck for bringing all this up and hijacking my name like this. You logged in and now I cant use it. The is no reason to use the gay card here. You know "aghast" is the special sound I make so you took it away to be mean. I will always resent you until you abandon logging in or turn over the password to me. I would have atleast gotten an avatar!
Don't be so quick to judge others. The bible is clear that homosexuality is a sin, and it's still possible to love the sinner while condemning the sin. One of my daughters issues was experimenting with lesbian ideas, which was addressed and cured thank god.
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 06:51:07 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Aghast"Quote from: "New Guest"Quote from: "Aghast"Ignore thewho using my log in - I stand by what I said by him, I haven't changed my opinion. The who is a parent who had a daughter in a program and she turned out okay. Maybe it was the best thing for her but that doesn’t mean all kids will do okay. Thats what really sticks in my crawl.
Yes, but I still agree with your suggestion that we try to have a screening process for new posters. I don’t think thewho would pass the test because he is such a dip shit but it would make for better conversations. The takedown video didn’t explain why that person was being restrained so I cannot judge whether or not it was warranted. I like the 1980’s style cell phone in the back pocket of the staff member, reminds me of Starsky and Hutch. Anyone remember that show?
No face down restraint is warranted.
Where does it say that? Oh, thats right, I forgot, we are all expressing our opinions. Yes, I agree, face down is a little rough, but the floor was carpeted and maybe the kid was given the option to be forced down on his ass or face. Maybe that should be made part of the procedure so atleast the kids have some control and an option. What do others think?
What an utterly disgusting human being. ^^^^That was in response to this (although I have no idea who the child actually was)...
Quote from: "Ralph"
I don't post here much. I was security guard at the program TheWho sent his kid to. I was able to smuggle out some hidden video of an incident involving his daughter...
http://www.heal-online.org/Takedown.mpg (http://www.heal-online.org/Takedown.mpg)
RalphF
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 06:54:48 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"It would be fun to go back and read some of those flame threads.
Yes, it's quite enlightening. I'm curious....why did you think it was fun or acceptable to make fun of a survivor?
Why do you think some people find it fun or acceptable to make fun of a program parent? You dont think that any of these characters were making fun of me? lol
Look Anne you are quoting from "TheWho" Thread. It was a total troll/flame war there. You need to read through the thread not just take out one sound bite.
It was total mayhem and it was fun! DJ was quoting and talking to himself too as were others, it was his 2nd most posted thread.
If I were in a thread where we were having a serious conversation then I would look at it more closely, but thewho thread was a trash dump of flame wars.
Post by: Troll Control on August 27, 2010, 06:56:16 PM
Quote from: "Deborah"
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Deborah""Who,
Did you participate in the survey?
Is your daughter considered on of Aspen's successes?
No I dont think so. I filled out a follow-up of some sort but it was short, not much feedback was asked for, so I dont think it was a survey.
I dont know if she is considered one of their successes or not. We had a show contact us and asked if we would be interested in being interviewed. But we didnt do it.
Oh that's right. She was in the 98% who fail, and go back to drugs, then moved away and didn't speak to you for two years.
But, hey, she did catch up academically, which please you, but then never went to college.
That does sound like the typical success story.
Hmm... not sure where that is coming from or means. I think that you asked me if I filled out a survey or not. Guess I should have stuck to "No"
Mmmm. Got it from you
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... ter#163947 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=163947&highlight=daughter#163947)
But anyway my daughter would fall into your 98% who go back to drugs (statistically) but long term the kids that finish at ASR do much better. Academically she was way ahead when she returned
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... &start=435 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=daughter&start=435)
There basically isnt any and she regressed like a slingshot as soon as she got home and wanted to experience everything she missed. I.e. smoked cigarettes, smoked pot., drank, stay out late etc. but after a few weeks she realized there were things she wanted to do with her life and started to move on. She still drinks and smokes pot etc, but in moderation.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... ter#160456 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=160456&highlight=daughter#160456)
Exactly what happened. My daughter moved to NYC and I only heard from her once in 2 years, still never went to school.
Then Whooter circled back and changed it to say how great their communication was.
Quote from: "TheWho"
QuoteOn 2006-01-01 13:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"not if they are living in YOUR house without paying rent, bills....If you don't want to follow the rules, get a job, get your own place, fix your own meals, figure out your own transportation, have your own life. And finally be happy following your own rules."
My daughter came home and had a difficult transition. She initially went back with her old friends but eventually got bored with them and moved on. I was worried for awhile but we communicated with each other and new she was in a good space.
Last edited by TheWho on Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There you have it. PROOF POSITIVE that Whooter has been lying all along about his daughter's "success" at Aspen. Must be that fiduciary interest driving his congenital lying.
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 06:57:45 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Aghast"Quote from: "New Guest"Quote from: "Aghast"Ignore thewho using my log in - I stand by what I said by him, I haven't changed my opinion. The who is a parent who had a daughter in a program and she turned out okay. Maybe it was the best thing for her but that doesn’t mean all kids will do okay. Thats what really sticks in my crawl.
Yes, but I still agree with your suggestion that we try to have a screening process for new posters. I don’t think thewho would pass the test because he is such a dip shit but it would make for better conversations. The takedown video didn’t explain why that person was being restrained so I cannot judge whether or not it was warranted. I like the 1980’s style cell phone in the back pocket of the staff member, reminds me of Starsky and Hutch. Anyone remember that show?
No face down restraint is warranted.
Where does it say that? Oh, thats right, I forgot, we are all expressing our opinions. Yes, I agree, face down is a little rough, but the floor was carpeted and maybe the kid was given the option to be forced down on his ass or face. Maybe that should be made part of the procedure so atleast the kids have some control and an option. What do others think?
What an utterly disgusting human being. ^^^^That was in response to this (although I have no idea who the child actually was)...Quote from: "Ralph"I don't post here much. I was security guard at the program TheWho sent his kid to. I was able to smuggle out some hidden video of an incident involving his daughter...
http://www.heal-online.org/Takedown.mpg (http://www.heal-online.org/Takedown.mpg)
RalphF
Yeah right Anne, The guy claimed he had video tapes of my daughter..... lol ... you should read this stuff before you put it out here, Anne.
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 07:00:15 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Yeah right Anne, The guy claimed he had video tapes of my daughter..... lol ... you should read this stuff before you put it out here, Anne.
...
I said I have no idea who the child was. Does it make it OK if it wasn't your daughter?
Post by: Troll Control on August 27, 2010, 07:03:41 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
My daughter slipped back to almost square one. The reason , as I found out later, was there were so many options and no restrictions and she wanted to try everything she couldnt when she was away. No one spoke her language, so there was no support from her peers.
But under a year she bounced back, the difference was the program she was in taught her and supplied her with tools (i.e. communication, knowing she could make good as well as bad choices, she had the power to change herself etc.)We were able to sit, make eye contact and talk about how we were feeling and this hepled bring us and the family back together again.
So hang in there and keep trying, the tools the school gave her are still there.
There's that regression again. Took a year to "bounce back." I can understand that after being held against her will and exposed to Rudy Bentz for 16 months.
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 07:05:18 PM
If you can find where I said anything different just post it. Why mask it in a manifesto of posts and quotes like above? Just give us the link to read!
You need to find some new footer material, build that back up to 3 or 4 links lol.
...
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 07:07:54 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Yeah right Anne, The guy claimed he had video tapes of my daughter..... lol ... you should read this stuff before you put it out here, Anne.
...
I said I have no idea who the child was. Does it make it OK if it wasn't your daughter?
No, but that is what I was responding to. The guy claimed he had video of my daughter. How would you take it if someone said they had video of your daughter. This is why you need to read more than just one post or "sound bite" and consider we were in thewho thread.
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 07:09:55 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Why do you think some people find it fun or acceptable to make fun of a program parent?
One that refuses to accept what they've done? One who continues to shill for said program? You bet your sweet ass I do!
Quote
Look Anne you are quoting from "TheWho" Thread. It was a total troll/flame war there. You need to read through the thread not just take out one sound bite.
Mmmm hmmm....that's why I'm periodically providing the links (thanks Ursus for the lesson!) so people can go back thru and see how much bullshit you spewed while anon.
Quote
It was total mayhem and it was fun! DJ was quoting and talking to himself too as were others, it was his 2nd most posted thread.
If I were in a thread where we were having a serious conversation then I would look at it more closely, but thewho thread was a trash dump of flame wars.
Yep, there was plenty of that. It doesn't discount what you did and posted.
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 07:12:09 PM
...
Post by: Troll Control on August 27, 2010, 07:12:33 PM
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 07:13:49 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"Why do you think some people find it fun or acceptable to make fun of a program parent?
One that refuses to accept what they've done? One who continues to shill for said program? You bet your sweet ass I do!QuoteLook Anne you are quoting from "TheWho" Thread. It was a total troll/flame war there. You need to read through the thread not just take out one sound bite.
Mmmm hmmm....that's why I'm periodically providing the links (thanks Ursus for the lesson!) so people can go back thru and see how much bullshit you spewed while anon.QuoteIt was total mayhem and it was fun! DJ was quoting and talking to himself too as were others, it was his 2nd most posted thread.
If I were in a thread where we were having a serious conversation then I would look at it more closely, but thewho thread was a trash dump of flame wars.
Yep, there was plenty of that. It doesn't discount what you did and posted.
Ah Yes there was lots of BS in TheWho thread. Thats why it was created.
...
Post by: Troll Control on August 27, 2010, 07:16:57 PM
Posted by Deborah » Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:33 pm
Quote from: "Deborah"
Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Deborah""Quote from: ""TheWho""Quote from: ""Deborah""Who,
Did you participate in the survey?
Is your daughter considered on of Aspen's successes?
No I dont think so. I filled out a follow-up of some sort but it was short, not much feedback was asked for, so I dont think it was a survey.
I dont know if she is considered one of their successes or not. We had a show contact us and asked if we would be interested in being interviewed. But we didnt do it.
Oh that's right. She was in the 98% who fail, and go back to drugs, then moved away and didn't speak to you for two years.
But, hey, she did catch up academically, which please you, but then never went to college.
That does sound like the typical success story.
Hmm... not sure where that is coming from or means. I think that you asked me if I filled out a survey or not. Guess I should have stuck to "No"
Mmmm. Got it from you
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... ter#163947 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=163947&highlight=daughter#163947)
But anyway my daughter would fall into your 98% who go back to drugs (statistically) but long term the kids that finish at ASR do much better. Academically she was way ahead when she returned
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... &start=435 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=daughter&start=435)
There basically isnt any and she regressed like a slingshot as soon as she got home and wanted to experience everything she missed. I.e. smoked cigarettes, smoked pot., drank, stay out late etc. but after a few weeks she realized there were things she wanted to do with her life and started to move on. She still drinks and smokes pot etc, but in moderation.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... ter#160456 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=160456&highlight=daughter#160456)
Exactly what happened. My daughter moved to NYC and I only heard from her once in 2 years, still never went to school.
Then Whooter circled back and changed it to say how great their communication was.
Quote from: "TheWho"
QuoteOn 2006-01-01 13:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"not if they are living in YOUR house without paying rent, bills....If you don't want to follow the rules, get a job, get your own place, fix your own meals, figure out your own transportation, have your own life. And finally be happy following your own rules."
My daughter came home and had a difficult transition. She initially went back with her old friends but eventually got bored with them and moved on. I was worried for awhile but we communicated with each other and new she was in a good space.
Last edited by TheWho on Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There you have it. PROOF POSITIVE that Whooter has been lying all along about his daughter's "success" at Aspen. Must be that fiduciary interest driving his congenital lying.
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 07:19:04 PM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Shut the fuck up, loser. You're fucking troll and that's it. Just look at the posts that you have here. You are a SICK FUCK. Some of this shit you've written literally makes me sick to my stomach. Assuming people's identities to pose as them and post all sorts of nasty shit. What the fuck IS WRONG WITH YOU??? You can't justify what you have done here and you will never be allowed to post anything without being confronted with it. People here are going to hold you accountable for your sick behavior.
Ha,Ha,Ha Calm down DJ, you are still pissed of that I tricked you into exposing your 3,700 anon posts? No going back now. Almost every post was pointed at me in your obsession. You spent 5 years chasing a ghost, DJ. Do you realize that?
How many times did you tell all of us that you only had had 10 anon posts? Now we see you have 3,700. You posted mostly anon and under various aliases and now you find it tough to point fingers at others.
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 07:22:38 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"Shut the fuck up, loser. You're fucking troll and that's it. Just look at the posts that you have here. You are a SICK FUCK. Some of this shit you've written literally makes me sick to my stomach. Assuming people's identities to pose as them and post all sorts of nasty shit. What the fuck IS WRONG WITH YOU??? You can't justify what you have done here and you will never be allowed to post anything without being confronted with it. People here are going to hold you accountable for your sick behavior.
Ha,Ha,Ha Calm down DJ, you are still pissed of that I tricked you into exposing your 3,700 anon posts? No going back now. Almost every post was pointed at me in your obsession. You spent 5 years chasing a ghost, DJ. Do you realize that?
How many times did you tell all of us that you only had had 10 anon posts? Now we see you have 3,700. You posted mostly anon and under various aliases and now you find it tough to point fingers at others.
...
Translation.....someone else did it so that makes it OK that I did.
Just give up already. After this, I don't think even your most ardent supporters would line up to back you.
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 07:25:42 PM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Right there, asshole. "Regressesd like a slingshot" and "didn't talk to (you) for two years." Don't forget "took five years to graduate high school" and "dropped out" and "didn't go to college." Yeah, that's nothing alright. Fucking loser scum.
Ha,Ha,Ha you dont have the post because it never existed. You think you can string along a manifesto with links assuming no one would read it and think you were telling the truth.
Show us the post that supports your thoughts that my daughter didnt talk to me for 2 years. lol
You should calm down a little, DJ, my daughter did fine. All those past posts you just read prove that and it bugs the crap out of you. You have actually added validity to my facts, thank you. Thanks for screening through them all, DJ.
...
Post by: Troll Control on August 27, 2010, 07:29:53 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Guest"Did she actually graduate college? Or is she still going? Did she drop out?
She has graduated now,but she did dropped out for awhile to get a job working with veterens to help them get benefits or something like that. A boyfriend got her into it I think. She tired of it and went back to school and finished…took her 5 years.
Whoops.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=27903&p=336809&hilit=she+did+dropped+out+for+awhile...took+her+5+years#p336799)
Sounds like she dropped out and you lost contact for a while. You're a bit fuzzy on the details of where she was and what she was doing.
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 07:34:18 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Ha,Ha,Ha you dont have the post because it never existed. You think you can string along a manifesto with links assuming no one would read it and think you were telling the truth.
Show us the post that supports your thoughts that my daughter didnt talk to me for 2 years. lol
Well, seeing as you ran and edited it way back when you were first called on it that might not be possible. I remember that conversation. You can deny it all you want, but I personally remember it. It was the clincher for me on how much your attitude towards kids reminded me of my father. You said it....I know it and even though you'll never admit it, you know it. Now go ahead and do your thing. Deflect attention away by turning it around. I'll await with baited breath your twisting of either my words or someone else's so you can jump up and down and say "See? I can do the same thing". It doesn't change what happened.
Quote
You should calm down a little, DJ, my daughter did fine. All those past posts you just read prove that and it bugs the crap out of you. You have actually added validity to my facts, thank you. Thanks for screening through them all, DJ.
I cannot fathom the amount of cognitive dissonance it takes for you to live with yourself.
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 07:36:30 PM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Quote from: "TheWho"Quote from: "Guest"Did she actually graduate college? Or is she still going? Did she drop out?
She has graduated now,but she did dropped out for awhile to get a job working with veterens to help them get benefits or something like that. A boyfriend got her into it I think. She tired of it and went back to school and finished…took her 5 years.
Whoops.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=27903&p=336809&hilit=she+did+dropped+out+for+awhile...took+her+5+years#p336799)
Sounds like she dropped out and you lost contact for a while. You're a bit fuzzy on the details of where she was and what she was doing.
Sorry DJ, you said she moved to NYC and didnt speak to me for 2 years (you were proven wrong once again)... you dont have the post and your digging has validated that what I have said all along is correct. I have been consistent, thank you for showing the readers this.
Sting!!! Wiggle wiggle
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 07:37:07 PM
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 07:39:05 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"Ha,Ha,Ha you dont have the post because it never existed. You think you can string along a manifesto with links assuming no one would read it and think you were telling the truth.
Show us the post that supports your thoughts that my daughter didnt talk to me for 2 years. lol
Well, seeing as you ran and edited it way back when you were first called on it that might not be possible. I remember that conversation. You can deny it all you want, but I personally remember it. It was the clincher for me on how much your attitude towards kids reminded me of my father. You said it....I know it and even though you'll never admit it, you know it. Now go ahead and do your thing. Deflect attention away by turning it around. I'll await with baited breath your twisting of either my words or someone else's so you can jump up and down and say "See? I can do the same thing". It doesn't change what happened.QuoteYou should calm down a little, DJ, my daughter did fine. All those past posts you just read prove that and it bugs the crap out of you. You have actually added validity to my facts, thank you. Thanks for screening through them all, DJ.
I cannot fathom the amount of cognitive dissonance it takes for you to live with yourself.
Oh, thanks Anne, your memory seals it!! I dont think any of the readers would think you were biased towards DJ. We all know I have answered the same question over and over again for 5 years and DJ has just showed all the other readers that I was consistent each time.
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 07:43:25 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Oh, thanks Anne, your memory seals it!! I dont think any of the readers would think you were biased towards DJ. We all know I have answered the same question over and over again for 5 years and DJ has just showed all the other readers that I was consistent each time.
...
Mmmmm hmmm.
I cannot fathom the amount of cognitive dissonance it takes for you to live with yourself.
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 07:47:00 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Oh, thanks Anne, your memory seals it!! I dont think any of the readers would think you were biased towards DJ. We all know I have answered the same question over and over again for 5 years and DJ has just showed all the other readers that I was consistent each time.
...
Mmmmm hmmm.
I cannot fathom the amount of cognitive dissonance it takes for you to live with yourself.
Oh come on, with all this history in the database, you think people are going to believe someones memory over what was actually written or a link to an original post?
...
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 07:51:46 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Oh come on, with all this history in the database, you think people are going to believe someones memory over what was actually written or a link to an original post?
I really don't care who believes it or who doesn't. I honestly don't. I remember it, you know it and that's all I personally - for myself only, need.
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 07:54:40 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Who, When I first came onto fornits everyone convinced me that I was abused. I never felt I really was but this is a persuasive bunch of people and until coming here I never knew how broad the term abuse was. I always thought it was defined in terms of physical, psychological or sexual abuse. But fornits has taught me that abuse can mean anything we want it to mean, if we “feel “ we were abused then we were!! If a staff member yelled at me then that means he is abusive towards me and since he works for the program then that means the programs is abusive and since the program is part of an industry then the entire industry must be abusive also. So it is simple deduction that every member of the Troubled Teen industry is abusive!! It is so simple I cant believe I never saw it that way before. Reading here has really opened my eyes.
I am glad your daughter has come around finally. I heard rumors the 2 of you were not speaking.
And here he is impersonating a survivor. Complete with mention of said daughter after he was busted.
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 07:56:41 PM
Quote from: "ThéWho"
Quote from: "ADS"Who, When I first came onto fornits everyone convinced me that I was abused. I never felt I really was but this is a persuasive bunch of people and until coming here I never knew how broad the term abuse was. I always thought it was defined in terms of physical, psychological or sexual abuse. But fornits has taught me that abuse can mean anything we want it to mean, if we “feel “ we were abused then we were!! If a staff member yelled at me then that means he is abusive towards me and since he works for the program then that means the programs is abusive and since the program is part of an industry then the entire industry must be abusive also. So it is simple deduction that every member of the Troubled Teen industry is abusive!! It is so simple I cant believe I never saw it that way before. Reading here has really opened my eyes.
I am glad your daughter has come around finally. I heard rumors the 2 of you were not speaking.
You will hear all sorts of nasty rumors about me and my daughter. Don't believe them, they are not true and we get along great now. It's so nice to know that fornits has benefited people as much as you. It really has made my life better too. I used to be bored with life, and had nobody to talk to. But now I wake up refreshed, knowing there will always be someone willing to talk to me on fornits! Even if it's not the most pleasant conversation, I don't mind because any sort of human interaction is better than none at all.
The term abuse can mean whatever you want it to mean, that is the great thing about free speech. You are open to your opinion just as much as I am to mine. As I say this, there are always the people who come back and ask if I support free speech so much, then why do I support programs that control speech in every way. That is a completely different situation, apples and oranges.
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 08:00:05 PM
Now he really had to pull out the stops....he posted as TomK (before he agreed to have his anon posts linked up), a survivor and then answered himself, as TheWho. :rofl: Whodda thunk he'd end up busting himself!
Quote from: "TheWho"
Man, I don’t blame my parents at all. I was so screwed up when I was 16 that freedom of speech was the last of my worries. I was so high all the time that my speech was slurred and no one could understand me anyway LOL so it really didn’t matter. I couldn’t remember half my therapy sessions, I exposed myself to my guidance counsellor and missed over 120 days of school my sophomore year. I sold my dads car to some freak in the city for an amount I don’t remember and my kid sister had to be tested for Hep C exposure 3 times in 2 years. I dried out in some hospital about 200 miles away from home and then ended up in PV. Now 4 years later I am able to function day to day on Zoloft and thats it, got my GED. As soon as I get some money together I plan to surprise my dad with a new car. Its the least I can do, I have no idea how he paid for my time at PV. But I am sure it would have been mine and my sisters inheritance someday.
At this point in my life I am just glad they did something for me and didn’t give up on me and am grateful my sister didn’t end up with Hep C like I did. I am not going to beat them up because they chose a shitty place for me. I owe them big time and my kid sister is so beautiful and we are the best of friends now.
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "TomK"Man, I don’t blame my parents at all. I was so screwed up when I was 16 that freedom of speech was the last of my worries. I was so high all the time that my speech was slurred and no one could understand me anyway LOL so it really didn’t matter. I couldn’t remember half my therapy sessions, I exposed myself to my guidance counsellor and missed over 120 days of school my sophomore year. I sold my dads car to some freak in the city for an amount I don’t remember and my kid sister had to be tested for Hep C exposure 3 times in 2 years. I dried out in some hospital about 200 miles away from home and then ended up in PV. Now 4 years later I am able to function day to day on Zoloft and thats it, got my GED. As soon as I get some money together I plan to surprise my dad with a new car. Its the least I can do, I have no idea how he paid for my time at PV. But I am sure it would have been mine and my sisters inheritance someday.
At this point in my life I am just glad they did something for me and didn’t give up on me and am grateful my sister didn’t end up with Hep C like I did. I am not going to beat them up because they chose a shitty place for me. I owe them big time and my kid sister is so beautiful and we are the best of friends now.
LOL sold your dads car!! I never attended a day of school my sophomore year and pretty much slept all day and was out all night. My mom covered for me because she knew my dad would kill me or send me away if he found out how bad it really was. Then I was caught dealing to this guy who was sleeping with this 14 year old, he was like old in his 40’s or something like that. So it made the papers and my dad flipped (I mean really flipped) and I was on a plane a few days later. Being sent to a program meant no jail time. I am not comfortable naming the program but I can tell you that most of the kids there were not as bad off as I was. Looking back I wish my dad had found out sooner so I would have missed all that time and spent money. I really screwed up my head all those years on drugs.
Advice to parents reading. Don’t wait for the cops to get involved to do something to help your kid. It wont get better on its own, it will only get worse trust me!
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 08:03:24 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Oh come on, with all this history in the database, you think people are going to believe someones memory over what was actually written or a link to an original post?
I really don't care who believes it or who doesn't. I honestly don't. I remember it, you know it and that's all I personally - for myself only, need.
Thats cool. I remember plenty of stuff about DJ's and many other peoples' posts but there is no sense bringing it up, in my opinion, without proof. But I agree with you it doesnt really matter to me what other people think anyway. We are just a bunch of Avatars.
I wonder how DJ is making out on all those posts where he claimed myself and others called him a "Child Rapist"? That was a bit bazaar.
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 08:03:58 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "The Who"That is the important thing. Thank-you guest and thank-you to the "we" you represent when you say "we understand that parents need help once in awhile with their at-risk teens." I am glad to speak to a representative of emotional growth programs. My daughter is a college graduate today, and alive because of one of your programs. She was angry and out of control.
I didn't speak to her for 3 years after the escorts came for her except through phone calls. I looked forward to these calls though sometimes they were disconnected if my daughter became manipulative. (She said she was being hurt by "some kind of cult" "please help" "for the love of god.")
ha, ha, ha. Teens have a wild imagination. But you love them.
Then she would receive a consequence for trying to be manipulative. She soon became honest. That was the beginning of her recovery. Today she is happy. She still has her stuggles, but she is doing well. You just have to stick it out and it works out.
I had a similar experience, my daughter attended ASR. It was highly structured but they allowed open communication between the parents and the child. That is funny about you daughter calling the place she was at a cult!! When I was younger I attended summer camp and there was a kid in our cabin that wrote to his parents and told them he was being starved to death and to come and get him!! We were all a little homesick I think. But they didn’t have any phones at all!! Imagine what fornits would have thought of this place!! Ha,Ha,Ha Manipulation is to be expected when the kids are facing hard work and consequences, but we all know our own kids the best and lending a sympathetic ear and encouragement to hang in there is a big help. The teen years are a tough time and sometimes the only thing we can do is love them and try to guide them the best we can to keep them out of harm’s way. Unfortunately sometimes intervention is needed to help accomplish this with some children.
...
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 08:06:39 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "TheWho"Who, When I first came onto fornits everyone convinced me that I was abused. I never felt I really was but this is a persuasive bunch of people and until coming here I never knew how broad the term abuse was. I always thought it was defined in terms of physical, psychological or sexual abuse. But fornits has taught me that abuse can mean anything we want it to mean, if we “feel “ we were abused then we were!! If a staff member yelled at me then that means he is abusive towards me and since he works for the program then that means the programs is abusive and since the program is part of an industry then the entire industry must be abusive also. So it is simple deduction that every member of the Troubled Teen industry is abusive!! It is so simple I cant believe I never saw it that way before. Reading here has really opened my eyes.
I am glad your daughter has come around finally. I heard rumors the 2 of you were not speaking.
And here he is impersonating a survivor. Complete with mention of said daughter after he was busted.
Wow, I think I remember that one. This person was trolling me for about 3 days and I finally turned the table on him, or maybe a she.
...
Post by: Botched Programming on August 27, 2010, 08:07:50 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"Quote from: "Whooter"
Oh come on, with all this history in the database, you think people are going to believe someones memory over what was actually written or a link to an original post?
I really don't care who believes it or who doesn't. I honestly don't. I remember it, you know it and that's all I personally - for myself only, need.
Thats cool. I remember plenty of stuff about DJ's and many other peoples' posts but there is no sense bringing it up, in my opinion, without proof. But I agree with you it doesnt really matter to me what other people think anyway. We are just a bunch of Avatars.
I wonder how DJ is making out on all those posts where he claimed myself and others called him a "Child Rapist"? That was a bit bazaar.
...
I think that this would be enough information to have The Who Baker acted for having dual personality disorder along with meglomania disorder..
PS Good work Anne !!!
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 08:15:08 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
I think that this would be enough information to have The Who Baker acted for having dual personality disorder along with meglomania disorder..
PS Good work Anne !!!
Oh No!! Please dont...
"Oh Stop it Whooter, Grow up".
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 08:15:45 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Guest"If I went further into his new strategy it might be construed as outing him. I've said enough. Even though I don't check IPs, it's still not fair for me to guess in the position i'm in. Let's just say he's an intelligent little shit and has adjusted his tactics. Be smart and you'll figure it out. He's taken an indirect approach now.Quote from: "psy"Quote from: "Guest"Sorry, dude, but YES. He's posting anon too much and people need to understand this guy before they try to determine if his posts "add value." Heh.You have a point, but nobody will read the whole thread... nobody. Either you know TheWho's antics, patterns, and style, or you don't. Also. Protip: he's also dramatically changed his style. Unless you're watching very very closely and looking at the motivations of why people post what they do (the net effect in the end), you'll never guess what his game is now. He's very good at pushing a small button and sending out ripples, and not in a way you'd expect.
Please. Enlighten me. What's this guy's new schtick?
Think about this: he's no longer registered so he can pretend to be anybody or take any position. As I said. Examine the net effect resulting from a posting.
Post by: Botched Programming on August 27, 2010, 08:32:37 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
"Oh Stop it Whooter, Grow up".
...
Your words... I may have thought them but you already know how immature you are acting.. And yes I would suggest for you to get counseling for your behavior... Man up and do the right thing...
I'll pray for your sanity to return. :seg:
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 08:36:53 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "Whooter"
"Oh Stop it Whooter, Grow up".
...
Your words... I may have thought them but you already know how immature you are acting.. And yes I would suggest for you to get counseling for your behavior... Man up and do the right thing...
I'll pray for your sanity to return. :seg:
Its fun to immature once in awhile, some people take life so seriously all the time..... and I thank you for your prayers Botched.
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Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 08:37:47 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
I am new here and dont want to read the whole thread. So what you are saying this thewho person is undereducated and has a low IQ. Why do you create a whole thread just to pick on a special needs person. Why not just ignore him? There is a neighbor kid who is retarded or autistic and he is a good kid and we try to include him as much as possible with my kids who are smart and doing well in the 2nd grade and they seem to play well together. I wouldnt try to pick on him too much most of those people are very good natured.
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 08:39:34 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Its fun to immature once in awhile, some people take life so seriously all the time..... and I thank you for your prayers Botched.
...
So is that why you were making fun of a survivor's post about their abuse? You ignore the posts talking about that.
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 08:40:59 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Another impersonation.Quote from: "TheWho"I am new here and dont want to read the whole thread. So what you are saying this thewho person is undereducated and has a low IQ. Why do you create a whole thread just to pick on a special needs person. Why not just ignore him? There is a neighbor kid who is retarded or autistic and he is a good kid and we try to include him as much as possible with my kids who are smart and doing well in the 2nd grade and they seem to play well together. I wouldnt try to pick on him too much most of those people are very good natured.
Ha,Ha,Ha That is classic. I remember that, Anne. You should provide links to those so we can go back and see what was being talked about and the topic that day.
TheWho Thread was such a disaster but there are some hidden Gems in there... keep going
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 09:05:20 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Its fun to immature once in awhile, some people take life so seriously all the time..... and I thank you for your prayers Botched.
...
So is that why you were making fun of a survivor's post about their abuse? You ignore the posts talking about that.
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 09:08:57 PM
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=375858#p375858)
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Shut the fuck up, loser. You're fucking troll and that's it. Just look at the posts that you have here. You are a SICK FUCK. Some of this shit you've written literally makes me sick to my stomach. Assuming people's identities to pose as them and post all sorts of nasty shit. What the fuck IS WRONG WITH YOU??? You can't justify what you have done here and you will never be allowed to post anything without being confronted with it. People here are going to hold you accountable for your sick behavior.
This person has been trolling TheWho and Whooter for 5 years. We strung together his posts and (although he claimed to have only one log in name and 10 guest posts) we found 3,700 guest posts dedicated exclusively to trolling TheWho and Whooter, ( a little bit more than the 10 that he claimed lol). Which brings us to a total of... tada Over 7,100 as of today (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/search.php?author_id=2271&sr=posts) lol
He has talked to himself, impersonated others, but needs to take the focus off himself because he lied about never guest posting.
It was a disappointing day for him as we can see by his frustration but hopefully tomorrow will be a better day for him and he can find something in TheWho thread to justify his 5 years of trolling. Lets all give him some time to get through all those posts and not judge him too soon.
...
Post by: DannyB II on August 27, 2010, 09:19:12 PM
Quote
"Dysfunction Junction" wrote:
Shut the fuck up, loser. You're fucking troll and that's it. Just look at the posts that you have here. You are a SICK FUCK. Some of this shit you've written literally makes me sick to my stomach. Assuming people's identities to pose as them and post all sorts of nasty shit. What the fuck IS WRONG WITH YOU??? You can't justify what you have done here and you will never be allowed to post anything without being confronted with it. People here are going to hold you accountable for your sick behavior.
DannyB II wrote:
I have been reading through old posts from Hyde and else where DJ and it appears you seem to have a vulgar aggressive tact with just about anyone who doesn't agree with you. One of your favorite saying is "Fuck You". Very aggressive words. I am not a poster of threads to back up what I am saying, it is there if you want to read it, Anne vulgar bullying mouth is all over there also. Beating up on others. You really think your doing something here positive but you are not, DJ, your a troll at best. Just trolling along on a internet site you found, desperately trying to gain some vindication for your sorry life. Your the one that makes people sick, your incessant, fanatical posting of nothing but rubbish.
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 09:27:06 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
I have actually known for a few years that RobertBruce and thewho were the same person. When they were having one of their famous flame wars(a year or so ago) thewho screwed up and started posting as thewho under Roberbruces name. I have to admit it was genius and had been quietly fascinated ever since. Whats better than to have an archenemy that you have control over? When RB was around no one else bothered thewho and you will notice that RB doesn’t really interact or converse much with anyone else except to troll thewho.
Seriously who would be that lame to spend hours/years trolling thewho unless it was thewho himself?
Quote from: "TheWho"
I have to go alone with the other guest. As soon as thewho started posting again this RobertBruce person comes along. they are definitely the same person. This sick fuck will do anything for attention even sinking low enough to troll himself. I heard he had his kid killed after he returned from a program and wasnt helped at all. In fact the only thing the program did was make his son hate him more, so he offed him because he couldnt stand it.
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 09:29:28 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Froderik"Quote from: "TheWho?"Why cant you write something more constructive or think about the time you spent at HLA before making fun of these places RB?Where was he making fun of these places on here?
He was making fun of this kid from TB who was duct taped and thrown in the ocean among other things. He thought this was one of the funniest posts and made a point to hilight the others that were humorous also. I cant remember if he was logged in as RobertBruce or thewho but it really pissed me off at the time. The kid that posted that never came back to this forum.
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 09:30:41 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
I tolerated thewho because he represented what I hated the most and I know that these type of people exist. But I think what hurts me the most is to find out that he is one of us, a survivor all along. It just makes me sick knowing that someone who had been through what we have is capable of saying those words to us and enjoying fooling us for all those years.
Bruce, You are a sick person and owe a lot of people an apology.
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 09:31:26 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "Guest"The Who^^ Just like all of the other posts. Seriously, this guy has a kid who offed himself due to abuse suffered at ASR (where The Who sent him) and the best he can do is to troll a kid who survived the same abuse? This is a sorry motherfucker through and through. Since his kid is dead because of his actions, he now wishes all kids who survived to be further abused. Very, very sick person here, people.
The above is very true, unfortunately.
I do think it's funny, though, that The Who has spent all day just typing in confirmation codes. I love watching his flailing. :beat:
I agree, he is a fucking loser and I am tired of reading this mess and what is even sadder is that RobertBruce/TheWho spent years doing this. Look at these hudreds of pages of garbage that the Bruce filled with his time going back and forth being "thewho" and then "RobertBruce". That is an insanity all in itself. Is this the type of person that HLA churns out? He was only there a week but still it seems they had their effect on him.
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 09:33:44 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"Just those two.
So the only time you reference bi or gay was when you are logged in as TheWho. Why did you continue to fight with yourself online using two different id's? Why did you publically antagonize Dysfunction Junction and make him look foolish. Trying to say that the more offensive posts where made by someone else doesnt work because there can only be one identity/username called "TheWho" or"RobertBruce" or "psy" etc. I cant log in and pretend to be psy or Ursus etc. So you have been very offensive on this board but what you are saying is you were not offensive when logged in as RobertBruce.
Your argument and logic is interesting.
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 09:36:22 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "TheWho"I have actually known for a few years that RobertBruce and thewho were the same person. When they were having one of their famous flame wars(a year or so ago) thewho screwed up and started posting as thewho under Roberbruces name. I have to admit it was genius and had been quietly fascinated ever since. Whats better than to have an archenemy that you have control over? When RB was around no one else bothered thewho and you will notice that RB doesn’t really interact or converse much with anyone else except to troll thewho.
Seriously who would be that lame to spend hours/years trolling thewho unless it was thewho himself?Quote from: "TheWho"I have to go alone with the other guest. As soon as thewho started posting again this RobertBruce person comes along. they are definitely the same person. This sick fuck will do anything for attention even sinking low enough to troll himself. I heard he had his kid killed after he returned from a program and wasnt helped at all. In fact the only thing the program did was make his son hate him more, so he offed him because he couldnt stand it.
That was funny when Robert Bruce came out and tried to convince everyone that he was TheWho. We must have flamed for a dozen pages on that one. There were many people who were convinced that he was behind TheWho posts. I actually helped out and tried to keep it going for awhile if I remember correctly.
I dont see a link but I would guess that was 3 years ago? Good find, good memory. thanks Anne.
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 09:38:16 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
QuoteRobertBruces own words:
"I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho and I are one and the same. I created the character a few years ago as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea. I wanted to give all the anti-program posters an opportunity to showcase everything that's sick and wrong with this industry....."
Original post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=9d4b6ff43b71ee761684cef9b5b536b4#p334604)
I guess we can agree that TheWho was abusive, but the question remains as to why you would hide behind this user name and take pot shots at fellow survivors? What was gained by that Bruce?
You are one twisted freak Brucie or TheWho whatever your name is. You both fucking suck and you are sick to even think this shit up in the first place.
Well, you were right about that last one. Damn, how much time did you devote to this?
Post by: Botched Programming on August 27, 2010, 09:38:54 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
He has talked to himself, impersonated others, but needs to take the focus off himself because he lied about never guest posting.
...
Hey Who.. The good book says let him who is without sin cast the first stone.... and you are not innocent by any means of perfoming the same acts you are accusing of...
Dude don't throw rocks... you live in a glass house
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 09:41:37 PM
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3615#p334898 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3615#p334898)
Quote from: "[color=#BF0000
TheWho[/color]"]So you made TheWho character after this guy you knew at work. Sort of a loser who had a rich father. Its a great idea by why would you have TheWho make fun of fellow survivors. You didnt have to take it that far. It really makes you look like scum Bruce. You are worse than he was. At least with TheWho the way we knew him we understood why he had screwed up thinking,ie kid in a program, another committed suicide etc. and we knew he was a loser because he screwed his own kids up and then shipped them off when he couldnt handle parenting any longer. But for you to write this knowing what we all went thru in these places is really fucked up Brucie.
I think you should appologize
Wow.
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 09:44:32 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"Quote from: "TheWho"I have actually known for a few years that RobertBruce and thewho were the same person. When they were having one of their famous flame wars(a year or so ago) thewho screwed up and started posting as thewho under Roberbruces name. I have to admit it was genius and had been quietly fascinated ever since. Whats better than to have an archenemy that you have control over? When RB was around no one else bothered thewho and you will notice that RB doesn’t really interact or converse much with anyone else except to troll thewho.
Seriously who would be that lame to spend hours/years trolling thewho unless it was thewho himself?Quote from: "TheWho"I have to go alone with the other guest. As soon as thewho started posting again this RobertBruce person comes along. they are definitely the same person. This sick fuck will do anything for attention even sinking low enough to troll himself. I heard he had his kid killed after he returned from a program and wasnt helped at all. In fact the only thing the program did was make his son hate him more, so he offed him because he couldnt stand it.
That was funny when Robert Bruce came out and tried to convince everyone that he was TheWho. We must have flamed for a dozen pages on that one. There were many people who were convinced that he was behind TheWho posts. I actually helped out and tried to keep it going for awhile if I remember correctly.
I dont see a link but I would guess that was 3 years ago? Good find, good memory. thanks Anne.
...
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 09:48:59 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "TheWho"QuoteRobertBruces own words:
"I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho and I are one and the same. I created the character a few years ago as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea. I wanted to give all the anti-program posters an opportunity to showcase everything that's sick and wrong with this industry....."
Original post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334604&sid=9d4b6ff43b71ee761684cef9b5b536b4#p334604)
I guess we can agree that TheWho was abusive, but the question remains as to why you would hide behind this user name and take pot shots at fellow survivors? What was gained by that Bruce?
You are one twisted freak Brucie or TheWho whatever your name is. You both fucking suck and you are sick to even think this shit up in the first place.
Well, you were right about that last one. Damn, how much time did you devote to this?
Yes but you notice it was written on June 23, 2009 and he edited it on July 1, 2009
The original was "captured" here on June 23, 2009
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334606#p334606)
Unless you read the posts leading up to and after the ones that are placed out here you dont get a sense of what was going on. If someone just takes a lone post and says look what this person said it doesnt really mean much unless you know what context it was said in. Do you see what I mean?
At the time RobertBruce was trying to convince people he was TheWho. We were having fun with it. Read through it you will see.
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 09:50:36 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"Quote from: "TheWho"I have actually known for a few years that RobertBruce and thewho were the same person. When they were having one of their famous flame wars(a year or so ago) thewho screwed up and started posting as thewho under Roberbruces name. I have to admit it was genius and had been quietly fascinated ever since. Whats better than to have an archenemy that you have control over? When RB was around no one else bothered thewho and you will notice that RB doesn’t really interact or converse much with anyone else except to troll thewho.
Seriously who would be that lame to spend hours/years trolling thewho unless it was thewho himself?Quote from: "TheWho"I have to go alone with the other guest. As soon as thewho started posting again this RobertBruce person comes along. they are definitely the same person. This sick fuck will do anything for attention even sinking low enough to troll himself. I heard he had his kid killed after he returned from a program and wasnt helped at all. In fact the only thing the program did was make his son hate him more, so he offed him because he couldnt stand it.
That was funny when Robert Bruce came out and tried to convince everyone that he was TheWho. We must have flamed for a dozen pages on that one. There were many people who were convinced that he was behind TheWho posts. I actually helped out and tried to keep it going for awhile if I remember correctly.
I dont see a link but I would guess that was 3 years ago? Good find, good memory. thanks Anne.
...
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3540#p334572 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=3540#p334572)
Nope...looks like that was shit you pulled just one year ago.
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 09:55:17 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Nope...looks like that was shit you pulled just one year ago.
Yes but you notice it was written on June 23, 2009 and he edited it on July 1, 2009
The original was "captured" here on June 23, 2009
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334606#p334606)
Unless you read the posts leading up to and after the ones that are placed out here you dont get a sense of what was going on. If someone just takes a lone post and says look what this person said it doesnt really mean much unless you know what context it was said in. Do you see what I mean?
At the time RobertBruce was trying to convince people he was TheWho. We were having fun with it. Read through it you will see.
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 09:59:27 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Nope...looks like that was shit you pulled just one year ago.
Yes but you notice it was written on June 23, 2009 and he edited it on July 1, 2009
The original was "captured" here on June 23, 2009
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334606#p334606)
Unless you read the posts leading up to and after the ones that are placed out here you dont get a sense of what was going on. If someone just takes a lone post and says look what this person said it doesnt really mean much unless you know what context it was said in. Do you see what I mean?
At the time RobertBruce was trying to convince people he was TheWho. We were having fun with it. Read through it you will see.
...
I gotta at least hand it to ya that you're are the master of spin. No wonder Aspen uses you to gloss over what they do.
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 10:02:07 PM
Bruce says he is TheWho (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334644#p334644)
DJ defending him calling it sarcasm (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=334765#p334765)
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Quote from: "Guest"Quote from: "RobertBruce"
I guess there isnt much point in hiding it. TheWho and I are one and the same. I created the character a few years ago as a means of serving as a lightining rod for programmies. I'd been posting on here for about 2.5 years when I came up with the idea. I wanted to give all the anti-program posters an opportunity to showcase everything that's sick and wrong with this industry. What better way to do that then to actually have someone who was so clearly brainwashed, and believed in this nonsense so ardently that nothing could disuade him from the truth. An absolute moron who couldnt recognize the truth even when it was staring him straight in the face, or just wouldn't.......
I think Robert feels much better now that he has finally starting being truthful with us.
It's called "sarcasm." Look it up, Whooter. Now, tell us, was this church visit for your kid's funeral? Or were services held right at ASR?
...
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 10:05:33 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
I gotta at least hand it to ya that you're are the master of spin. No wonder Aspen uses you to gloss over what they do.
I can tell from your response that you see that Bruce said it and then went back to edit it. But like you said it doesn't matter what you and I think. Lets let the readers decide.
It was fun as you read through it. You shouldn't take it so seriously, Anne, we are talking about TheWho thread! lol
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 10:11:22 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Well how about someone answer why a kid would bitch about the programs library not having a copy of a Mark twain book or why a teacher isn’t certified by the state? How many of these kids brought up this same subject with their parents about their local school when they were home? How many actually went to the library and checked out a book? Or knew their teachers credentials? HaHaHa, kind of funny when you think of it that way. If 95% of the kids are getting accepted to their first choice of college who cares if the place is licensed, certified or has any oversight from the state at all?
Most parents see right thru this crap, it is comical to read sometimes. None of this stuff is torture or abusive… ropes courses, building a wall, shoveling snow, taking out the trash, doing calisthenics, skipping a meal or two, reflection time, etc. etc… it just seems abusive because you never had to do anything tough before so of course it seems like torture. To top it all off one of the biggest bitches is that the kids cant communicate enough with their parents while there!!! Most of these kids never talked to their parents for months prior to being placed. WTF is up with that?
If a kid or my kid did commit suicide how would any of us know if it was due to depression, a girlfriend who broke it off, an accident? How do you attribute it to a specific cause? The lists that I see being posted have little or no bearing because no note was left so no one knows what the cause was. How do we know the program didn’t extend their lives an extra few years before they finally took their life? Without the program they might have died years earlier.
...
How did you come by this little tidbit of information? Or will you ignore this just like you've been ignoring the question of why you felt it appropriate to make fun of a survivor's post detailing the abuse they suffered?
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 10:19:03 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "TheWho"Well how about someone answer why a kid would bitch about the programs library not having a copy of a Mark twain book or why a teacher isn’t certified by the state? How many of these kids brought up this same subject with their parents about their local school when they were home? How many actually went to the library and checked out a book? Or knew their teachers credentials? HaHaHa, kind of funny when you think of it that way. If 95% of the kids are getting accepted to their first choice of college who cares if the place is licensed, certified or has any oversight from the state at all?
Most parents see right thru this crap, it is comical to read sometimes. None of this stuff is torture or abusive… ropes courses, building a wall, shoveling snow, taking out the trash, doing calisthenics, skipping a meal or two, reflection time, etc. etc… it just seems abusive because you never had to do anything tough before so of course it seems like torture. To top it all off one of the biggest bitches is that the kids cant communicate enough with their parents while there!!! Most of these kids never talked to their parents for months prior to being placed. WTF is up with that?
If a kid or my kid did commit suicide how would any of us know if it was due to depression, a girlfriend who broke it off, an accident? How do you attribute it to a specific cause? The lists that I see being posted have little or no bearing because no note was left so no one knows what the cause was. How do we know the program didn’t extend their lives an extra few years before they finally took their life? Without the program they might have died years earlier.
...
How did you come by this little tidbit of information? Or will you ignore this just like you've been ignoring the question of why you felt it appropriate to make fun of a survivor's post detailing the abuse they suffered?
Anne, there is nothing funny about that at all. Again you need to read the thread to see what the discussion was about. If a child commits suicide how do any of us know what the cause was? How can someone on fornits just decide that it was due to the program he/she was in? It could had been due to a break up with a girlfriend or medication side effects etc. We cant just take every kids who commits suicide that went to a program and blame it on the school.
This was the argument, Anne, without a note how do we know for sure?
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 10:24:27 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Anne, there is nothing funny about that at all.
You're right, it's extremely sad. It's even sadder if the parent is shilling for the program that either did damage, or at the very least didn't help. I don't find anything funny at all about the fact that someone felt so badly that that was their only viable alternative. I've dealt with my own suicidal thoughts due to what was done to me in Straight and, as you know, I've had a very close friend of mine (another Straight survivor) damn near succeed in his attempt.
Quote
If a child commits suicide how do any of us know what the cause was? How can someone on fornits just decide that it was due to the program he/she was in? It could had been due to a break up with a girlfriend or medication side effects etc. We cant just take every kids who commits suicide that went to a program and blame it on the school.
This was the argument, Anne, without a note how do we know for sure?
That doesn't explain how you knew that there was no note.
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 10:32:04 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Anne, there is nothing funny about that at all.
You're right, it's extremely sad. It's even sadder if the parent is shilling for the program that either did damage, or at the very least didn't help. I don't find anything funny at all about the fact that someone felt so badly that that was their only viable alternative. I've dealt with my own suicidal thoughts due to what was done to me in Straight and, as you know, I've had a very close friend of mine (another Straight survivor) damn near succeed in his attempt.QuoteIf a child commits suicide how do any of us know what the cause was? How can someone on fornits just decide that it was due to the program he/she was in? It could had been due to a break up with a girlfriend or medication side effects etc. We cant just take every kids who commits suicide that went to a program and blame it on the school.
This was the argument, Anne, without a note how do we know for sure?
That doesn't explain how you knew that there was no note.
I had a friend and a class mate who took their lives when I was in highschool. One of them ended up taking another family member with them by accident. It was very sad. There was no note found (in both cases) so no one ever knew why.
As far as the above post I would have to go back and look to see if there was a note left or not. But without the note we really dont know.
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 10:38:35 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
I had a friend and a class mate who took their lives when I was in highschool. One of them ended up taking another family member with them by accident. It was very sad. There was no note found (in both cases) so no one ever knew why.
As far as the above post I would have to go back and look to see if there was a note left or not. But without the note we really dont know.
...
That still doesn't explain how you knew that, in that specific case, there was no note. You stated it in your own post, complete with your three dots.
Quote from: "TheWho"
Well how about someone answer why a kid would bitch about the programs library not having a copy of a Mark twain book or why a teacher isn’t certified by the state? How many of these kids brought up this same subject with their parents about their local school when they were home? How many actually went to the library and checked out a book? Or knew their teachers credentials? HaHaHa, kind of funny when you think of it that way. If 95% of the kids are getting accepted to their first choice of college who cares if the place is licensed, certified or has any oversight from the state at all?
Most parents see right thru this crap, it is comical to read sometimes. None of this stuff is torture or abusive… ropes courses, building a wall, shoveling snow, taking out the trash, doing calisthenics, skipping a meal or two, reflection time, etc. etc… it just seems abusive because you never had to do anything tough before so of course it seems like torture. To top it all off one of the biggest bitches is that the kids cant communicate enough with their parents while there!!! Most of these kids never talked to their parents for months prior to being placed. WTF is up with that?
If a kid or my kid did commit suicide how would any of us know if it was due to depression, a girlfriend who broke it off, an accident? How do you attribute it to a specific cause? The lists that I see being posted have little or no bearing because no note was left so no one knows what the cause was. How do we know the program didn’t extend their lives an extra few years before they finally took their life? Without the program they might have died years earlier.
...
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 10:41:13 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"
I had a friend and a class mate who took their lives when I was in highschool. One of them ended up taking another family member with them by accident. It was very sad. There was no note found (in both cases) so no one ever knew why.
As far as the above post I would have to go back and look to see if there was a note left or not. But without the note we really dont know.
...
That still doesn't explain how you knew that, in that specific case, there was no note. You stated it in your own post, complete with your three dots.Quote from: "TheWho"Well how about someone answer why a kid would bitch about the programs library not having a copy of a Mark twain book or why a teacher isn’t certified by the state? How many of these kids brought up this same subject with their parents about their local school when they were home? How many actually went to the library and checked out a book? Or knew their teachers credentials? HaHaHa, kind of funny when you think of it that way. If 95% of the kids are getting accepted to their first choice of college who cares if the place is licensed, certified or has any oversight from the state at all?
Most parents see right thru this crap, it is comical to read sometimes. None of this stuff is torture or abusive… ropes courses, building a wall, shoveling snow, taking out the trash, doing calisthenics, skipping a meal or two, reflection time, etc. etc… it just seems abusive because you never had to do anything tough before so of course it seems like torture. To top it all off one of the biggest bitches is that the kids cant communicate enough with their parents while there!!! Most of these kids never talked to their parents for months prior to being placed. WTF is up with that?
If a kid or my kid did commit suicide how would any of us know if it was due to depression, a girlfriend who broke it off, an accident? How do you attribute it to a specific cause? The lists that I see being posted have little or no bearing because no note was left so no one knows what the cause was. How do we know the program didn’t extend their lives an extra few years before they finally took their life? Without the program they might have died years earlier.
...
Go back and read the thread there was no mention of a note as I remember. If there was then we could attribute it to a specific cause maybe. If you find where they mentioned a note then I will say that I was wrong. But I didnt see that written anywhere.
...
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 10:42:43 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Go back and read the thread there was no mention of a note as I remember. If there was then we could attribute it to a specific cause maybe. If you find where they mentioned a note then I will say that I was wrong. But I didnt see that written anywhere.
...
...
Oooooooo, six dots now. You must really mean it!!
I don't know why I expected anything different than another dodge.
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 10:45:09 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Go back and read the thread there was no mention of a note as I remember. If there was then we could attribute it to a specific cause maybe. If you find where they mentioned a note then I will say that I was wrong. But I didnt see that written anywhere.
...
...
Oooooooo, six dots now. You must really mean it!!
...
I don't know why I expected anything different than another dodge.
Why do you always bail out? If there were a note then we would know, if there isnt a note then we dont know. why does this miff you so much? None of it is my fault, I am just responding to the post. It was years ago, Anne, what is your point?
...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 10:47:48 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"Quote from: "Whooter"
Go back and read the thread there was no mention of a note as I remember. If there was then we could attribute it to a specific cause maybe. If you find where they mentioned a note then I will say that I was wrong. But I didnt see that written anywhere.
...
...
Oooooooo, six dots now. You must really mean it!!
Why do you always bail out? If there were a note then we would know, if there isnt a note then we dont know. why does this miff you so much? None of it is my fault, I am just responding to the post. It was years ago, Anne, what is your point?
...
I don't know why I expected anything different than another dodge.
Cheap shot changing what I wrote. It musta struck a nerve.
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 10:49:43 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"Quote from: "Anne Bonney"Quote from: "Whooter"
Go back and read the thread there was no mention of a note as I remember. If there was then we could attribute it to a specific cause maybe. If you find where they mentioned a note then I will say that I was wrong. But I didnt see that written anywhere.
...
...
Oooooooo, six dots now. You must really mean it!!
Why do you always bail out? If there were a note then we would know, if there isnt a note then we dont know. why does this miff you so much? None of it is my fault, I am just responding to the post. It was years ago, Anne, what is your point?
...
I don't know why I expected anything different than another dodge.
Cheap shot changing what I wrote. It musta struck a nerve.
sorry, not intended, I put my response inside the quotes... I fixed it go look.
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Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 10:52:16 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Cheap shot changing what I wrote. It musta struck a nerve.
sorry, not intended, I put my response inside the quotes... I fixed it go look.
...[/quote]
Great, now would you like to address why you wrote a post mocking a survivor's account of their abuses or would you just like to continue to ignore it?
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 11:01:28 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Cheap shot changing what I wrote. It musta struck a nerve.
sorry, not intended, I put my response inside the quotes... I fixed it go look.
...
Great, now would you like to address why you wrote a post mocking a survivor's account of their abuses or would you just like to continue to ignore it?
Are you speaking about the kid who said he was thrown into the ocean during a typhoon? Yes, I didnt believe it and I thought it was funny. I know a little about the area and you couldn't hire a local to drive to the beach and toss someone into the ocean during a typhoon for all the money in the world. The kid was lying and we were being trolled plain and simple, Anne. If you had ever been down on the edge of the ocean during a typhoon you would know this would be almost impossible to accomplish unless you had a crane of some type to get the person past the raging surf which would be at least 50 feet out. The oncoming winds would blow anything back onto shore and besides every local would be home with their families trying to shore up their own homes and prevent them from damage. The locals would not give a crap about any program at that point. The guy was blowing smoke.
Anne, you take every story at face value and you shouldnt.
Sorry, just my opinion.
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Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 11:08:23 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Are you speaking about the kid who said he was thrown into the ocean during a typhoon? Yes, I didnt believe it and I thought it was funny. I know a little about the area and you couldn't hire a local to drive to the beach and toss someone into the ocean during a typhoon for all the money in the world. The kid was lying and we were being trolled plain and simple, Anne. If you had ever been down on the edge of the ocean during a typhoon you would know this would be almost impossible to accomplish unless you had a crane of some type to get the person past the raging surf which would be at least 50 feet out. The oncoming winds would blow anything back onto shore and besides every local would be home with their families trying to shore up their own homes and prevent them from damage. The guy was blowing smoke.
Anne, you take every story at face value and you shouldnt.
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Took you an awfully long time to come up with "non story". One of your 'tells' is that you ignore, often for a very long time, things that either strike a nerve with you or things that you'd simply like to forget that you posted.
Post by: Whooter on August 27, 2010, 11:15:33 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Are you speaking about the kid who said he was thrown into the ocean during a typhoon? Yes, I didnt believe it and I thought it was funny. I know a little about the area and you couldn't hire a local to drive to the beach and toss someone into the ocean during a typhoon for all the money in the world. The kid was lying and we were being trolled plain and simple, Anne. If you had ever been down on the edge of the ocean during a typhoon you would know this would be almost impossible to accomplish unless you had a crane of some type to get the person past the raging surf which would be at least 50 feet out. The oncoming winds would blow anything back onto shore and besides every local would be home with their families trying to shore up their own homes and prevent them from damage. The guy was blowing smoke.
Anne, you take every story at face value and you shouldnt.
...
Took you an awfully long time to come up with "non story". One of your 'tells' is that you ignore, often for a very long time, things that either strike a nerve with you or things that you'd simply like to forget that you posted.
Actually Anne, I believe I responded to this way back when I first made fun of the post. But I think it does strike a nerve with me. I am amazed that everyone just nods their heads here and say.... yes I believe programs take kids down to the sea and toss them into the ocean during a typhoon. But if someone says that a program helped them then... "That person must be lying or brainwashed, there is no way that can happen"!!! lol
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Post by: Troll Control on August 28, 2010, 07:26:43 AM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"Shut the fuck up, loser. You're fucking troll and that's it. Just look at the posts that you have here. You are a SICK FUCK. Some of this shit you've written literally makes me sick to my stomach. Assuming people's identities to pose as them and post all sorts of nasty shit. What the fuck IS WRONG WITH YOU??? You can't justify what you have done here and you will never be allowed to post anything without being confronted with it. People here are going to hold you accountable for your sick behavior.
Ha,Ha,Ha Calm down DJ, you are still pissed of that I tricked you into exposing your 3,700 anon posts? No going back now. Almost every post was pointed at me in your obsession. You spent 5 years chasing a ghost, DJ. Do you realize that?
How many times did you tell all of us that you only had had 10 anon posts? Now we see you have 3,700. You posted mostly anon and under various aliases and now you find it tough to point fingers at others.
...
Translation.....someone else did it so that makes it OK that I did.
Just give up already. After this, I don't think even your most ardent supporters would line up to back you.
Except it's not true. Psy already verified my wife had 2700 posts under her account he moved under mine accidentally and I have only had one login ever.
Whooter otoh had at least 12 - found so far and over 4000 anon posts since he sold TheWho account. And he posted over 1700 times in only 58 days over the past 2 months. No way around these facts.
He made over 2000 postsjust trolling RB.
RB and me - 1 login each
Whooter - 12 and counting
Not to forget his whole story is fiction.
Post by: Whooter on August 28, 2010, 07:37:25 AM
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=375858#p375858)
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Shut the fuck up, loser. You're fucking troll and that's it. Just look at the posts that you have here. You are a SICK FUCK. Some of this shit you've written literally makes me sick to my stomach. Assuming people's identities to pose as them and post all sorts of nasty shit. What the fuck IS WRONG WITH YOU??? You can't justify what you have done here and you will never be allowed to post anything without being confronted with it. People here are going to hold you accountable for your sick behavior.
This person has been trolling TheWho and Whooter for 5 years. We strung together his posts and (although he claimed to have only one log in name and 10 guest posts) we found 3,700 guest posts dedicated exclusively to trolling TheWho and Whooter, ( a little bit more than the 10 that he claimed lol). Which brings us to a total of... tada Over 7,100 as of today (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/search.php?author_id=2271&sr=posts) lol
He has talked to himself, impersonated others, but needs to take the focus off himself because he lied about never guest posting.
It was a disappointing day for him as we can see by his frustration but hopefully tomorrow will be a better day for him and he can find something in TheWho thread to justify his 5 years of trolling. Lets all give him some time to get through all those posts and not judge him too soon.
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Post by: Troll Control on August 28, 2010, 08:28:12 AM
Notice also that Whooter has claimed for many years that RB and I had multiple logins and anonymously "identified" them only for it to be revealed that all of the ones he named were actually, factually...wait for it...WHOOTER himself.
Anne has done a great job ferreting them out in this thread and others.
I will be releasing Whooter's alias list shortly and you will be very, very surprised to see who he has been posing as.
I will also be posting screenshots of my PM box that Whooter flooded under various guises that were put under Whooter's name when his posts were linked.
It's all going to be public soon. Right after I get back from the beach next week. In the meantime Whooter will be posting fact-free drivel to divert attention from his mentally ill postings.
Post by: Whooter on August 28, 2010, 08:44:10 AM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Like I said. All Whooter can do is make accusations and provide no evidence. Now I guess he's just going to keep claiming Psy lied when posted he accidentally rolled my wife's account with 2700 posts into mine.
Notice also that Whooter has claimed for many years that RB and I had multiple logins and anonymously "identified" them only for it to be revealed that all of the ones he named were actually, factually...wait for it...WHOOTER himself.
Anne has done a great job ferreting them out in this thread and others.
I will be releasing Whooter's alias list shortly and you will be very, very surprised to see who he has been posing as.
I will also be posting screenshots of my PM box that Whooter flooded under various guises that were put under Whooter's name when his posts were linked.
It's all going to be public soon. Right after I get back from the beach next week. In the meantime Whooter will be posting fact-free drivel to divert attention from his mentally ill postings.
Sorry DJ. The code that Psy used was applied to both of us (yours wasnt done any differently). When you found out that your posts were going to be exposed you panicked and said that your wife was posting. So now you are trying to throw her under the bus for all your trolling threads. Nice husband she has.
You claimed all those years that you didnt start any of the attack threads and now you blame your wife. Well I dont think anyone is going to buy it. You have posted over 3,700 anon posts under several aliases.
thats over 7,100 posts total (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/search.php?author_id=2271&sr=posts)
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Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 11:17:15 AM
Post by: DannyB II on August 28, 2010, 11:34:22 AM
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Like I said. All Whooter can do is make accusations and provide no evidence. Now I guess he's just going to keep claiming Psy lied when posted he accidentally rolled my wife's account with 2700 posts into mine.
Notice also that Whooter has claimed for many years that RB and I had multiple logins and anonymously "identified" them only for it to be revealed that all of the ones he named were actually, factually...wait for it...WHOOTER himself.
Anne has done a great job ferreting them out in this thread and others.
I will be releasing Whooter's alias list shortly and you will be very, very surprised to see who he has been posing as.
I will also be posting screenshots of my PM box that Whooter flooded under various guises that were put under Whooter's name when his posts were linked.
It's all going to be public soon. Right after I get back from the beach next week. In the meantime Whooter will be posting fact-free drivel to divert attention from his mentally ill postings.
Oh, I know, Anne and yourself have done such a great job wasting space on the site. All of us are just holding are breath with anticipation for the next "ferreted out" piece of information.
You once told me you were 250 lbs. of Brazilian Jujitsu street fighting, man.
This must be your alter ego the, "nerdy little fat ass" who sits around with his Floridian girlfriend ferreting info.
DJ, help yourself. Please, you are boring the shit out of everyone. Who cares what Whooter and yourself said, years ago never mind yesterday.
Post by: DannyB II on August 28, 2010, 11:39:53 AM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Are you speaking about the kid who said he was thrown into the ocean during a typhoon? Yes, I didnt believe it and I thought it was funny. I know a little about the area and you couldn't hire a local to drive to the beach and toss someone into the ocean during a typhoon for all the money in the world. The kid was lying and we were being trolled plain and simple, Anne. If you had ever been down on the edge of the ocean during a typhoon you would know this would be almost impossible to accomplish unless you had a crane of some type to get the person past the raging surf which would be at least 50 feet out. The oncoming winds would blow anything back onto shore and besides every local would be home with their families trying to shore up their own homes and prevent them from damage. The guy was blowing smoke.
Anne, you take every story at face value and you shouldnt.
...
Took you an awfully long time to come up with "non story". One of your 'tells' is that you ignore, often for a very long time, things that either strike a nerve with you or things that you'd simply like to forget that you posted.
Anne please, go back to milking cows or being a clerk. You suck at investigating personality traits.
Who cares anyway. You do understand that what you bring to this site is annoying to most everyone, you have become the, one line joke" around here. Who are Whooters bitches, well that would be Anne and DJ. BP is trying but he seems adolescent, not big enough to handle the pressure.
Post by: Whooter on August 28, 2010, 11:52:51 AM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
You sure do complain alot for a person wh is guilty of doing the same things... Must be your conscious eating you alive... They do make meds that can help you Who !!! :seg:
Man-up, Botched, and quit whining about every post that doesn't meet your expectation.
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Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 12:08:38 PM
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Botched Programming"You sure do complain alot for a person wh is guilty of doing the same things... Must be your conscious eating you alive... They do make meds that can help you Who !!! :seg:
Man-up, Botched, and quit whining about every post that doesn't meet your expectation.
...
Not whining... Just want you to see how immature you are being... You can't bow down gracefully and let things die... For the love of God man, take an honest look at your behavior on this site... I for one can and did take a break on my own from this site unlike you who had to be banned.. I for one like living in harmony rather than staying in constant battle with people and talking to people who share the same beliefs as myself instead of trying to forcefully jam my opinions down others throats..
Man up and take a break and spend time with your family... leave the computer alone !!!
Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 12:17:45 PM
Quote from: "DannyB II"
BP is trying but he seems adolescent, not big enough to handle the pressure.
I unlike you don't have to be an internet bully who threatens women and men and hide behind a computer keyboard.. I for one have people on here who like and respect me, unlike you who only has Who in your corner... Neither of you are liked because of your dramatic behavior.. Tell me do you get along with the people in your family, spouses, or significant others.. I would almost be willing to bet that your internet behavior is displayed in the homefront as well.. and if they tolerate it, it only means they are almost as sick as you..
Just food for thought
Post by: DannyB II on August 28, 2010, 12:31:37 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "DannyB II"BP is trying but he seems adolescent, not big enough to handle the pressure.
I unlike you don't have to be an internet bully who threatens women and men and hide behind a computer keyboard.. I for one have people on here who like and respect me, unlike you who only has Who in your corner... Neither of you are liked because of your dramatic behavior.. Tell me do you get along with the people in your family, spouses, or significant others.. I would almost be willing to bet that your internet behavior is displayed in the homefront as well.. and if they tolerate it, it only means they are almost as sick as you..
Just food for thought
That food you are offering, was offered many months, years ago. It has degraded by now. Many posters have come and gone, you are just another speck of sand that is blowing along. Let go, dude. Nothing you say, can insult Whooter or myself, it is not original. Therefore lacks any significant psychological impact, sorry BP. Once again, your to late.
Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 12:36:38 PM
Quote from: "DannyB II"
That food you are offering, was offered many months, years ago. It has degraded by now. Many posters have come and gone, you are just another speck of sand that is blowing along. Let go, dude. Nothing you say, can insult Whooter or myself, it is not original. Therefore lacks any significant psychological impact, sorry BP. Once again, your to late.
So therfore I take it that you guys are beyond being reached on any socialogical level... Time for meds andd inpatient treatment.. the only thing is you have to want to be helped before you can be helped.
Peace and much healing to you...
:peace:
Post by: DannyB II on August 28, 2010, 12:44:50 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "DannyB II"BP is trying but he seems adolescent, not big enough to handle the pressure.
I unlike you don't have to be an internet bully who threatens women and men and hide behind a computer keyboard.. I for one have people on here who like and respect me, unlike you who only has Who in your corner... Neither of you are liked because of your dramatic behavior.. Tell me do you get along with the people in your family, spouses, or significant others.. I would almost be willing to bet that your internet behavior is displayed in the homefront as well.. and if they tolerate it, it only means they are almost as sick as you..
Just food for thought
"You, BP, don't have to be a internet bully, vulgar and degrade people", well lets just take a look at your hypocrisy.
How do you rationalize this. Oh, I know it is Art, that makes it different. There are double standards here, one for my friends and another for my enemies.
You are threatening Art, if you and Art were on the street right now do you really believe he would just stand there and let you say these things about him. Maybe he would be the man and walk away, since they are only words but it does not negate the fact they are threatening words.
As I said before BP, your an asswipe.
Your Hypocrisy......
Botched Programming wrote:
Arty... Quit being balltuitous...
Balltuitous
Verb-Being one who licks the piece of skin that connects your anus to your scrotum.Also known as a taint scraper
I personally like to describe particularly people who I don't like or a chick that's being bitchy.
Although the act is common in sexual relations I prefer to use it for describing idiotic people
Also known as a taint scraper.A taint is the skin that connects your anus to your ball-sack. :seg:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p) ... id=5184285
Post by: shaggys on August 28, 2010, 12:53:46 PM
Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 01:00:20 PM
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Quote from: "Botched Programming"Quote from: "DannyB II"BP is trying but he seems adolescent, not big enough to handle the pressure.
I unlike you don't have to be an internet bully who threatens women and men and hide behind a computer keyboard.. I for one have people on here who like and respect me, unlike you who only has Who in your corner... Neither of you are liked because of your dramatic behavior.. Tell me do you get along with the people in your family, spouses, or significant others.. I would almost be willing to bet that your internet behavior is displayed in the homefront as well.. and if they tolerate it, it only means they are almost as sick as you..
Just food for thought
"You, BP, don't have to be a internet bully, vulgar and degrade people", well lets just take a look at your hypocrisy.
How do you rationalize this. Oh, I know it is Art, that makes it different. There are double standards here, one for my friends and another for my enemies.
You are threatening Art, if you and Art were on the street right now do you really believe he would just stand there and let you say these things about him. Maybe he would be the man and walk away, since they are only words but it does not negate the fact they are threatening words.
As I said before BP, your an asswipe.
Your Hypocrisy......
Botched Programming wrote:
Arty... Quit being balltuitous...
Balltuitous
Verb-Being one who licks the piece of skin that connects your anus to your scrotum.Also known as a taint scraper
I personally like to describe particularly people who I don't like or a chick that's being bitchy.
Although the act is common in sexual relations I prefer to use it for describing idiotic people
Also known as a taint scraper.A taint is the skin that connects your anus to your ball-sack. :seg:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p) ... id=5184285
I take it you want to grow up and be just like one of the pathetic people who come on fornits and spew nothing but vile insanity just like Art and the Who... I must apply a little tollerance with you as you are fairly new,, I have been dealing with the other 2 creeps for years now. Please don't lower yourself into the same ranks as the other 2.. there is no enjoyment in having to be rude to them... would rather them open their eyes and see the world as it is.. not through the rose colered glasses they want to see the programs with..
Well take care...As I am going to go have quality time with my family and have a normal life unlike some of the people on here.
Peace and much healing to you my brother...
:peace:
Post by: DannyB II on August 28, 2010, 01:29:21 PM
Quote
BP wrote:
I take it you want to grow up and be just like one of the pathetic people who come on fornits and spew nothing but vile insanity just like Art and the Who... I must apply a little tollerance with you as you are fairly new,, I have been dealing with the other 2 creeps for years now. Please don't lower yourself into the same ranks as the other 2.. there is no enjoyment in having to be rude to them... would rather them open their eyes and see the world as it is.. not through the rose colered glasses they want to see the programs with..
Well take care...As I am going to go have quality time with my family and have a normal life unlike some of the people on here.
Peace and much healing to you my brother...
:peace:
BP, you know damn well what I am talking with you about here. You are being a hypocrite. You are applying a double standard for two sets of people. I have a problem with this. This type of separation does not inspire a well rounded conversation.
Yes, I also want Peace and Healing my brother, sounds like you enjoy the company of "Woof".
Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 02:27:53 PM
Quote from: "DannyB II"
BP, you know damn well what I am talking with you about here. You are being a hypocrite. You are applying a double standard for two sets of people. I have a problem with this. This type of separation does not inspire a well rounded conversation.
Yes, I also want Peace and Healing my brother, sounds like you enjoy the company of "Woof".
You my friend are the wager of war... I my friend have no real disrespect for you... take a step back and look from a different angle... if you were in the shoes of many of the people on here who have lived and endured the agony of what we went through have felt and have had to deal with for many years, then you would not be beating a bloody drum and supporting what these pro-program people say, for the love of God man apply a little empathy.
Empathy definition
1. Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives. See Synonyms at pity.
2. The attribution of one's own feelings to an object.
I apply some empathy towards you and see that maybe you do have a feeling that a program saved your life, and this is so, you should go witness on that programs website rather than come here to Fornits to try to keep chaios and calamaty going. You mission and duty would rely on you doing them good and trying to repay you debt to them as remember they saved your life so you now owe it to them in full.
And as far a Woof goes, I have never met the man, but do respect many of his views and his articulate way of putting thing as far as being able to live in one's own skin, well it is important.
Much peace and healing to you bro
:peace:
Post by: DannyB II on August 28, 2010, 07:44:20 PM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "DannyB II"
BP, you know damn well what I am talking with you about here. You are being a hypocrite. You are applying a double standard for two sets of people. I have a problem with this. This type of separation does not inspire a well rounded conversation.
Yes, I also want Peace and Healing my brother, sounds like you enjoy the company of "Woof".
You my friend are the wager of war... I my friend have no real disrespect for you... take a step back and look from a different angle... if you were in the shoes of many of the people on here who have lived and endured the agony of what we went through have felt and have had to deal with for many years, then you would not be beating a bloody drum and supporting what these pro-program people say, for the love of God man apply a little empathy.
Empathy definition
1. Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives. See Synonyms at pity.
2. The attribution of one's own feelings to an object.
I apply some empathy towards you and see that maybe you do have a feeling that a program saved your life, and this is so, you should go witness on that programs website rather than come here to Fornits to try to keep chaios and calamaty going. You mission and duty would rely on you doing them good and trying to repay you debt to them as remember they saved your life so you now owe it to them in full.
And as far a Woof goes, I have never met the man, but do respect many of his views and his articulate way of putting thing as far as being able to live in one's own skin, well it is important.
Much peace and healing to you bro
:peace:
BP, do you know who I am. I do not think so. I am from the Elan program 6/75-1/77. I have never supported a abusive program here or anywhere else.
Read brother, read.
Post by: Botched Programming on August 28, 2010, 08:44:24 PM
Quote from: "DannyB II"
BP, do you know who I am. I do not think so. I am from the Elan program 6/75-1/77. I have never supported a abusive program here or anywhere else.
Read brother, read.
(1) While in Elan were you abused ? ie the Ring or any thing like it ??
(2) Why go on a crusade with Who to Save the programs? He makes a big enough fool out of himself.
(3) Not sure why the battles with Anne, but can you show the woman a little respect and tollerance ?
(4) I will take time to read your post.. And make comments as deemed fit as you do.
(5) I do not apply a double standard to anyone.. Act like an asshole.. Get treated as an asshole.
(6) And yes there are other survivors on here I will gladly defend to the best of my ability as that is what friends do...
Much peace and healing
:peace:
Post by: DannyB II on August 29, 2010, 12:39:41 AM
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "DannyB II"
BP, do you know who I am. I do not think so. I am from the Elan program 6/75-1/77. I have never supported a abusive program here or anywhere else.
Read brother, read.
(1) While in Elan were you abused ? ie the Ring or any thing like it ??
None of your business, don't know you well enough. This would be PM, conversation anyway.
(2) Why go on a crusade with Who to Save the programs? He makes a big enough fool out of himself.
I do not save abusive programs nor crusade for them with Whooter or without.
(3) Not sure why the battles with Anne, but can you show the woman a little respect and tollerance ?
Read and I mean go back to the beginning of Danny and Anne. No, I will not have any respect or tolerance for Anne, at all. It does not matter what gender. What I will do is ignore Anne, until she starts to abuse another person.
(4) I will take time to read your post.. And make comments as deemed fit as you do.
Well, you do that. Thank you.
(5) I do not apply a double standard to anyone.. Act like an asshole.. Get treated as an asshole.
Yes you do, that is all you do.
(6) And yes there are other survivors on here I will gladly defend to the best of my ability as that is what friends do...
Here is your double standard. Thank You for sticking your foot in your mouth.
Much peace and healing
:peace: