Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

Oh filobee how you miss some points here.  
The functions of open meeting.



1) Public confessional and humiliation.  
2) fundraising.  
3) Reward of affection of family for compliance and punishment of public humiliation by family for non compliance.  
4) recruiting.
5) Public opinion.

=== All your points are valid & I agree with them (as to the purposes of Open Meetings). My reply wasn't so much to gives reasons why Open Meetings were held but to answer Anon's question: "It sounds like the parents went to the Open Meetings. How could they support the program after seeing it for what it was?"

Antigen called it a "Dog & Pony show", you called it a "lovey dovey feel good..." and I described it as " The atmosphere was to be very joyous with alot of singing (songs like "Jippety Do Dah, Mr Bluebird on my shoulder", "Raindrops Keep fallin' on my head", "America", "Seed song", etc). All the kids were very happy & cheerful..."

No doubt it had a profound impact on me & all the other newer newcomers, as well as others in the group.[ This Message was edited by: Filobeddoe on 2004-08-29 19:04 ][ This Message was edited by: Filobeddoe on 2004-08-29 19:06 ]

Day 12 - Moral Inventory - 8/09/75

I got over to Russell's house at about 6:30 this morning & we talked for about a half hour. Then we slept until about 9:00. Then Russell's mom made us some breakfast. She is really nice. Then I was rapping with Russ's sister Julie. She's an old-timer. She's really smart. Then when we left Mrs C hugged me & said she loved me & I said I loved her. She also said I did good at the Open Meeting last nite.

The Morning Rap was on the 3 Signs. I got up & related 4 times. Then during the Guys Rap we were talking about compeing with other people in the group.

Then the Night Rap was on trust. I had something to say but I didn't relate because there was a bunch of old-timers there. BS I'm going to relate tomorrow during the night rap!

I LOVE YOU

Goals: I'm gonna relate evey time I have something worth saying & also I'm gonna relate during the nite rap.

Day 25 - Moral Inventory - 8/22/75 (Open Meeting)

I learned alot about myself today. During Homes Rap my friends set me straight about alot of things. The main thing is that I wasn't being honest. Even today I wasn't being honest I was trying to impress everyone that I was doin' good & I wasn't doing good. I knew it because I didn't really feel right & I could tell that nobody was getting anything out of what I was saying. I was convincing myself that I was a boring person & by doing that I was becoming a boring person.

Something I realized is that my attitude is going to affect my actions. Not like just "saying" I'm gonna have a good day because I know whether or not I'm gonna have a good day or not. I have to think positive- it's just as simple as that & something that Darlene said to me was that I haven't changed since Day 1 & it's true. I've learned alot but I still have been playing games & I really haven't committed myself to getting straight. Something else the group told me today was that I thought it was just a big vacation being at the Seed & that it is serious business. I'm here to get my life back together & the only way that I can do that is to really start busting my ass & start realizing that it's a privilege to be in the Seed & it's nothing to be taken lightly.

And after everybody told me where I was at they didn't tell me that they loved me & that was a good justification for me to martyr. And that's what I did for the rest of the meeting. I was really acting like a jerk. And I could see on my Mom's face that she knew where I was at and that made me think. I'm not gonna get straight for her, I'm gonna do it for me but that gave me a little push in the right direction. This is the 1st Open Meeting that I didn't get emotional. Because I knew that if I did it would just be because I was feeling sorry for myself.

I LOVE YOU

Goals: BE HONEST WITH MYSELF, DON'T RAISE MY HAND UNLESS I'M GONNA BE HONEST. START TAKING MY LIFE SERIOUSLY.

Dear God give me the strength to be myself and not be a boring person. Amen

First to respond to a couple questions....

The political office he ran for may have been Congress?... or County Commissioner? I don't recall. In my scrapbook I have a copy of a bumper sticker (white background with Art Barker in big red letters) and a photo of him from the brochure but the part I kept didn't say what the office was. All I remember about it was that he lost & I passed out some brochures and may have put a bumper sticker on my car.

Don't remember anything about the poolside incident with you & Art. He wouldn't have mentioned it to anyone in the group unless he could have used it as a way to impress people. He probably kept it quiet & only people there & sr staff knew about it. Seems like something he wouldn't want anybody to know about? Might have been quite embarrassing to him.

I "did" stumble across this board... did a search for The Seed Art Barker because I was thinking about an old friend from the seed & found this board. Your statement to the contrary seems to suggest you didn't believe what I said?
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As to the original topic... everyone can have a theory (conspiracy theory or otherwise) or an opinion as to the motives of this person (Art Barker) but only a few prople really have a good idea.

People who were on staff saw things & heard things that most of us never knew about & might offer some insight into this man. It would have been interesting to be a "fly on the wall" during meetings with the inner circle.

I personally would like to know if he was a) a Great Man b) a egotistical meglomaniac or c) something else....

Until I stumbled on this board... I really hadn't thought much about The Seed for years. Some would say it's because the horrendous memories needed to be suppressed (i'm exaggerating to make a point) while others might think it was a good/bad experience (like other experiences in life) that happened a long time ago.

My QUESTION really is this: What was Art Barker's "thoughts" and intentions when he first developed the program? Were they to really help others who were in trouble or did he plan to aspire for power and/or wealth & be the "leader" of a large group/following?

Did he start out doing good things for the "right reasons" then something went wrong?

I personally don't know Art. I saw him of course while in the program several times, spoke of him often in raps, passed out brochures for him when he was running for some political office in '76, listened to him (and Shelley) in open meetings- but was not in his "inner circle". We never had a personal or private conversation. He never asked me for my opinion about anything. I graduated after 12 mos & never really looked back.

There is a saying that 'power corrupts & absolute power corrupts absolutely' & I wonder if that happened? I don't know & probably never will, but judging by all the harsh feelings I hear from others... maybe this did happen.

If someone who was in the "inner circle" would shed some light & share their opinions about Art's real thinking it would be interesting to alot of people I would think.

Is/was Art an evil person or a maligned good person?

I've never been to an old-timers gathering sponsored by the Seed or otherwise... would be an interesting experience.

And to GregFL - - I don't think you would have anybody being hostile or violent to you  :grin: .

Hello GregFL,
I am not in disagreement with any of your points. I know people who were screwed up as teens (my old "druggie" friend) & eventually got their stuff together & are great people (without The Seed).

Then there are alot who didn't get help & died or are still living self destructive lives now.

I had two best friends from the Seed. One of them was older than me (let's call him Rick) & graduated a year before. When we would hang out with 4 or 6 guys fishing, camping what have you... he was the leader, the funny one, the guy who was the happiest that had his shit together & we all liked him & looked up to him. He was going places! I found out a couple yrs after we drifted apart that he dropped out of college & was doing hard drugs & on the run from the law. To this day I don't know what happened to him. He may well have died with a needle in his arm??

My other friend was from a very religious family who had done alot of missionary work (Steve) who wasn't listening to his parents & was sent to the Seed to straighten him out. He was also a really neat kid and good friend! Anyway, he graduated the program & the path his life took was in the opposite direction. He went to a bible college & is now married & happily serving God as a missionary.

Can we give the Seed the credit or the blame? I really don't know... probably not.

My "personal" opinion is that God (a higher power than the Seed) was in control. If we turn TO him we do better than if we turn AWAY from him. I realize that this is grossly over-simplified however true in my case.

Your point about a person getting help? from the Seed at a juncture where they are self destructive and hurting themselves is a good one. It was a jolt that turned some away from that path.  

As to your point about voluntary brainwashing- an example came to mind of an example.. The Marine Corps basic training. A recruit is subjected to every sort of physical, mental, psycholical abuse imaginable. They are called maggots (or something similar) constantly ridiculed & their self esteem taken away. They are then slowly indoctrinated into this group (cult?) of the Marine Corps & are eventually told they are the greatest! The point being to tear them down then rebuild into them a certain mindset. You can question whether it is good or bad to be brainwashed in this way.... some would think it's good others wouldn't.

For me, I felt like I was being brainwashed at the time & afterward by the set of beliefs I was being instilled with. No doubt about it!

Funny thought, can you imagine getting up in a rap and talking like this :lol: Probably wouldn't be able to finish the 1st sentence.

A few years ago (she's 20 now), my daughter who was 16/17 going on 30 was having some of the same problems her dad had (skipping school, smoking pot & drinking, bad attitude, rebellious, etc).
 
I actually was considering different drug treatment programs, including the Seed. I haven't had any contact with the program since graduating in '76 & found out by a little research that they were only taking 18+ yo, so I didn't look into it any further. No other programs seemed liked the answer to our problem.

What I ended up doing was being a parent (along with my wife of 24 yrs) & made some rules, talked to her alot & told her that she was loved. I also told her (and her mother who didn't have a screwed up childhood like me) that this was a phase & that she was a great kid & a smart kid & would mature at her own pace & would later laugh at all the stupid stuff she is doing now.
 
She is now 20 & is still doing "some" stupid stuff but has matured alot & loves her parents who love & support her too. She is a real joy to me & I think she's gonna turn out just fine.....