Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Tampa survivor on October 14, 2002, 05:14:00 PM
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How do ya'll reconcile the whole "we were brainwashed too" line by former kid staff? In many cases I can go with that, but there were people like Wanda M and Clark, Doug Hemminger, etc that stand out as sadistic and who genuinly seemed to get off on thier power. We still pursue Nazi's as little old men for what they did as 25 year old soldiers caught up in the war.
How can I forgive kids who purposly joined staff and perpetuated the MADNESS?
Do you?
Bill
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Well, I guess that depends on how you look at it. Even as clients we were made to inflict the same abuse on those under us. It was the only way to make it up the ladder. How do we forgive the staff? How do our newcomers forgive us? We were trying our hardest to get up to right where those staff people were. That was the light at the end of the tunnel. Not for everyone, but you get my point.
There are actually many more fellow clients that I hold much more resentment towards than there are staff.
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Well, as the subtitle suggests, I initially had to learn to forgive myself. I have noticed that early on in the 'awakening' process almost everyone I have talked to intially denies that they ever 'abused' anyone else, and often that they themselves were ever 'abused physically'.
Over time, it seems, most of us come to realize that even the process of carrying people around on beltloops was abusive, indeed it qualifies legally as battery, or 'making physical contact with another person without their consent'. In much the same light, much of the 'confrontation' would clearly fit the legal requirements for 'assault', which can be no more that 'speaking to another person in an agressive or threatening manner, without consent'. Finally of course much of what we said in group qualified for the legal definition of slander/libel.
Of course few if any courts would accept these things, based on heresay alone, though that does not change the fact that they were abuses.
Though I suppose it is possible to have avoided it, it was quite common and natural in group to poke a newcomer in the back to make them sit up straight, or to force them to wave their arms around, to push their heads around so they were facing the speaker, slap their hands away from the heads or faces during a rap etc etc. How many oldcomers slammed a 'nuke' down on the chairs hard if they were misbehaving?
The original modality, first developed in China, was based on the principle that the 'guards' were not the abusers, rather the other 'inmates' would choose to abuse non compliant inmates, as a form of peer pressure to adopt the 'state approved' indea or thought pattern. Remember that this modality was designed to reform political prisoners, and to make it possible to parade them before the populace in their 'reformed' state- so that they could espouse the new 'state belief'.
Once I came to understand that I had been manipulated and lied to by sophisticated adults who knew fully well what they were doing, I realized that everyone from the exec level and down were for the most part already brainwashed, and I found it hard to hold them responsible.
However, everyone from the director level and up, and most importantly at the top of the ladder- Mel Sembler, the US Ambassador to Italy, were fully aware of the sub-plot if you will- They designed the modality, they knew where it came from, they knew what is was about and how it worked.
These higher level people were fully aware that having some differential diagnosis done as part of the intake process would limit their client base, and raise their costs to a prohibitive level.
Indeed this is why the program was ever seeking mental health profesionals, hoping to admit their children so that they could brain wash these people into selling the party line.
The most dangerous abuser is the altrusitc abuser. The wife beater who feels absolutely certain in his own mind that he is helping his wife become a better , more servile and submissive women, to better fulfill her role as his 'slave'- will beat his wife all the worse for sake of his deeply held and often religiously based convictions.
The same was true of most of us on staff. we were chose by the higher ups based on our 'dedication' to 'helping others', we were groomed and stroked into a set of self beliefs that centered around 'saving' people.
There is a website called 'godhatesfags.com', it maintained by the Westboro Baptists Church in Topeka Ks. If you can stand to read through it, and it is truly offensive, you will find that they believe the kids who beat Matt Shepard to death in Wyoming were in fact doing him a favor, by putting him out of his misery in a life of buggery. This is merely the same principle taken to a greater extreme.
I feel certain that When Tim Brown's father threatened me with a gun, telling me that he would 'shoot me in the leg and tell the cops I tried to steal his gun', he believed in his heart and mind that he was helping to 'save me'.
This is in no way exclusive to Straight or straight related cults. There are religious schools in Missouri right now that regularly beat children to get 'the devil out of them'. These kids may have made no more than a passing transgression, an off color remark or watching "Harry Potter".
This is not to say that there were not people in group or on staff that were simply sadistic and mean. Nor that some people on staff or in group understood that they were merely using others as stepping stones to progress themsleves or to escape the cult.
I am sure that was true in a small number of cases.
But I remain convinced that most people believed they were helping each other, that they were involved in a 'mission from God' so to speak. I know that I was convinced that I was helping people, from second phase on, indeed it was this sense of altruism that drove me to to complete staff training and go on to be a staffer, for the short time that I was.
I could not have been more wrong, and forgiving myself was the more difficult step, forgiving the staff above me, came much easier when I began to understand all of this.
But I can never forgive the Semblers, or Art Barker, or Miller Newton, or Mr. Tilly, or Mr. Buttermer, or Helen Morton, or Mr. Oliver, or the others at the top of the ladder- they not only should have known better- They did- and they specifically chose to ignore the abuses, to further their own careers or political powerbases.
It is my opinion that the program was really a device to extend the powerbase of the republican party, and in particular the right wing idealogues, who want the fifites back. They pine for the day when everyone wore suits in public, and ladies wore dresses. The felt robbed by the late sixties and early seventies cultural revolution in America. They were driven by greed and fear- a powerful combination of motivators.
In the case of Alanta, it is easy to see the inconsistancy between the stated mission and the reality of the client base. There was one poor black kid in the program in Atlanta, a city where there was a serious problem in the poor inner city neighborhoods with drugs and young drug users. Yet the program was recruiting middle class white families from hundreds of miles away- why?
Because these families were more likely to vote Republican, the party of choice for the highest level of the administration. It was not racisim persay, but it was racist in practice. These middle class families were more likely to become politically active, more likely to contribute money to the coffers of the GOP, more likely to develop networks of resources etc etc.
On a slightly more cynical note- these families were more likely to help Mr. Sembler build out his primary buisiness of land development and building strip malls.
That is all for now....tired fingers ....
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Great Question
I have tortured my self with that exact thought the last few days.
Carmel has a good point on the Old Comer thing. I guess I joined the party so it's hypocritical of me.
I hate most of them in one way or another, some I liked in a sick way. Just as much as I hate myself for doing what I did (Graduating). The difference is my choice was an attempt to get out. They had already exited the building.
My question to myself is, had Straight lasted another year, would I have done it as well? I look back & I am pretty sure I would have.... That really makes me take a long look in the Mirror.
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Just an after thought- I did in fact vote repulbican for years after I left the program and was a self identified conservative- Then I learned about libertarianism- with a small 'l' - cause the party itself and their platform are whacked.
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Sorry, that was a little premature...
I've thought a lot about this issue. I can't explain why I didn't run away, why I was so transfixed by the false threat of a court order, why I decided to comply and work the program, other than I wanted to survive. I was already a broken person before Straight. I wanted to live, get married, have kids...
I do believe that, if you were in Straight long enough, you were brainwashed...
Going on staff seemed like the right thing to do back then, a way of "giving back to the group." In doing so, we contributed to others' pain. This is what has haunted me the last 20 years and memories of my young adult life are mostly turmoil...
In a bittersweet twist of irony, I gave birth to twins in 1990. Pregancy was the happiest I'd ever been in life, but then came the downward spiral...Listeria sepsis...premature birth at 32 weeks... NICU...ventilators...and the final blow, finding out both boys had cystic fibrosis...I remember my husband and me crying, wondering what we had done to deserve this? All I had wanted was to be someone's mom...and in doing so, I'd handed out a death sentence to my beautiful baby boys...
Parenthood has taught me more about survival and forgiveness and love than anything else I've attempted or accomplished. My children are healthy and active today because, as a family, we all accept responsibility for participating in their respiratory therapy, making sure they take their enzymes, etc. I can't change the fact that they've got 2 bad genes, but I can ensure that they don't merely survive, but thrive. We don't dwell on their disease, but are constantly aware of it. I guess I am starting to look at being a former Straight staffer in somewhat the same way. You take responsibility for your mistakes (it took me awhile to get enough courage to reveal my name and the fact that I was a former staffer when I found this website), learn from them, and try not to repeat them. You grieve the transgressions which you've experienced. You also learn to rejoice in life's little pleasures. As hard as it is to forgive others, sometimes, it's harder to forgive yourself.
Kris
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How in the world can I be expected to heal my own wounds if I am not able to show compassion and grace to those who have wronged me? How can I be forgiven if I am unable to forgive? After all, I also was involved in this dangerous mind game, willingly or not, beliving that I was courtordered, when I was not, I still played a part in what occurred there. Do I desire to be forgiven? Of course I do. And,most importantly, I forgive myself.
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Forgiving myself was easy enough, as my parents were regularly hounded for feeding the newcomers fresh caught grouper and shrimp. Hey, dad was a charter fisherman, and it was cheaper than steaks. Nobody ever split my house, or raised hell there. Wonder why?? They were RESPECTED, even Mark Gilley, who in 1981 had been in for 2 years. He was yanked as my nuke after a month because we were "too nice" to him.
Every time I made significant phases like >3rd, I found myself at odds with the program, and could no longer comply. Yeah, I sat on a misbehaver once or twice, found the feeling of power in that very act, and frightened myself right out the door again rather than succumb to that base shred of animal which lives inside all of us.
Just my thought at the moment....
Keep the great responses coming, as I want to understand. I hold true bitterness only for a few like James named above.
Executive staff KNEW. Hell, I saw them perpetuate it too. Bobby Rugles in Jan 1982, Luray Harbor in 1981. BTW she is dead. Suicide after last split at age 16. Her sister misses her. Thanks straight.
Bill
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I was on staff and to be honest I think that I was a damn good staff memeber. Of course when I first joined staff in MI there was no restraints because it was against the law and I left staff shortly after restraining was instituted. I dont think that you can make sweeping generalizations about any group of people. Yeah, straight was fucked up,so is alot of shit in life. Stop crying and move on, if you didnt have straight to blame who would you blame? I have many issues with straight I am not pro straight and yes alot of the problems I go through these days are not necessarily my fault but they are my responsability so I have to deal with them. Sometimes I get really tired of hearing you guys fucking complain.
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DELETE
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Shane: thanks. well said
Anonomous: too bad you still can't question yourself. Lashing out at the question; sounds to me like you have made real progress. I am sorry you have to hide behind an unregistered post...I guess you aren't that proud of yourself after all.
To All: This isn't whining or aimless bitching. It happened. My life rules, and I credit the adversarial process of straight for being a part of me today which makes me formidable in the courtroom (ask my X or her attorney), or an advocate for my patients at the hospital.
EVERYONE has their own feelings about this and NO PERSONS'S FEELINGS ARE WRONG.
We are not in Straight anymore.
Bill Hadley
12/80-12/82
[ This Message was edited by: tampa survivor on 2002-10-15 05:26 ]
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"Sometimes I get really tired of hearing you guys fucking complain"
Believe it or not, sometimes I get tired of having to complain.
Sometimes I get tired of living with nightmares that come on an almost daily basis, nightmares of people restraining me, of the program hunting me down, of me poking, prodding, and screaming at other people.
Sometimes I get tired of being acutely aware that the same people who invented our collective nightmare are at this very minute enjoying a life of taxpayer supported opulence in Italy.
Sometimes I get tired of having instinctive and exaggerated startle responses, as a result of the cult...tired of having relationships driven to the brink of dispair for reasons I can't explain.
Sometimes I get tired of hearing about how people were falsly imprisioned, lied to by staff about them being court ordered.
Sometimes I get tired of thinking about how my family was decieved, abused, manipulated and robbed of our dignity because of the obsessed ideology of a few WASPY assholes who felt sure that I was an addict, despite their utter failure to provide any kind of medically sound assessment.
Sometimes I get tired of waking up screaming in the night, covered in sweat, dripping with fear, unable to speak or breathe.
And then sometimes I get tired of people telling me they are tired of reading what I write, despite the fact that they do so of their own free will.
But I understand it, cause I use to say it. And I understand the pain and anger and self hatred that drive it. And so I choose to rise above my own rage, and tell them that I care, and I hope they will someday find the strength to face the reality that we were all decieved and used to further the political objectives of neo-conservative fundamentalist fanatics.
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On 2002-10-14 23:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
I was on staff and to be honest I think that I was a damn good staff memeber. Of course when I first joined staff in MI there was no restraints because it was against the law and I left staff shortly after restraining was instituted. I dont think that you can make sweeping generalizations about any group of people. Yeah, straight was fucked up,so is alot of shit in life. Stop crying and move on, if you didnt have straight to blame who would you blame? I have many issues with straight I am not pro straight and yes alot of the problems I go through these days are not necessarily my fault but they are my responsability so I have to deal with them. Sometimes I get really tired of hearing you guys fucking complain.
Hey listen up, for many of us this board is the ONLY resource we have as ex-Straight clients. Some of us, like me, have NO ONE to talk with about Straight other than members of this board. If you don't like us talking about the HORRIBLE BULLSHIT that we went through as teenagers, which still affects us to this day, then find somewhere else to hang out, or start your own threads about how great it all was.
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Why do you even bother checking this website, Anonymous? The whole mindset of "quit yer whining and suck it up" is exactly why I left surgery for anesthesia...You must have been really compassionate...What a fucking coward
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I'm not really sure who is to blame actually, is it really staff or the people that told staff to do this.
In my opinion.. now we all have our opinions so try to keep an open mind. If staff really didn't want to do all this to us, they would not. They had a say in whatever job they wanted to do cuz this is a free country. I don't know how the pay was, but I'm sure with all the knowledge they had (the good stuff, not the bad) about rehab and such they could have got a better job being a councellor or something.. that is my opinion.
As far as who told them to do this, I'm not sure why someone didn't find something wrong with when it all happened and this facility was open.
I guess they were the ones who had the wool over their eyes, and not the "phasers" who did what they are told to do.
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I was a fifth phase staff in training, then graduated and went on to be a paraprofessional. I went on staff because I was freaked out about leaving alltogether, And I didn't know what else to do. As crazy as the place was, it was all I knew after 13 months. It felt safe to stay...then it got ugly when I found out about all the politics. Does anyone remember that we were not allowed to read newspaper articles about straight while we were in it. Unbelievable. Anyway, I quit when I got in trouble for hanging out with a "cop out". Actually, I was on staff and dating a cop out and a fifth phaser saw us together and told on me. I knew I was good at leading raps... I never yelled at anyone or was abusive... I knew that the place wasn't going anywhere (at the time) and thought I could bring some gentleness to the place. Not everyone who worked there was evil.
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Like I said, I wasn't sure who to blame.. maybe the person who started this whole mess, from what I understand it's the Ambassodor of Italy now.
It sounds like you were afraid of authority above you, which I understand, I get that way myself even to this day.
Yes I remember we couldn't read the newspaper, heck, we couldn't even read poster signs on the freeway!
I guess they were afraid the phasers would find out about all the politics going on and we would tell our parents and get lawyers or something, they didn't want to be sued, but I know eventually a lot of that did happen.. they couldn't run forever.
I don't want to say all staff were bad because there were one or two that were fine, but a lot of them loved to yell and have authority over people.. those are the ones I'm talking about and I'm still uncertain as to wheather or not to blame them.
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The whole mindset of "quit yer whining and suck it up" is exactly why I left surgery for anesthesia...
Kris, as an RN, that statement tells me alot about you. Dealing with primadonnas is what made me hate straight. I had you in mind when I started this thread, but I never knew you...i was long gone by then. I hope your nights are filled with more sleep and less regret, as you work through it all.
Bill
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It seems to me that the whole purpose of this forum is to heal, and to help one another to heal, to listen with an open mind, and to add input if we so desire.It is not to bash each other for whatever thoughts or feelings we as individuals have for our time spent at Straight. I for one do not have to pay any attention to persons who are obviously here to do more damage to our souls. Enough of that has already been done.
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Well for my own part each time I read a post from someone still 'asleep' I feel sad for them. I wish I could help them, but helping myself is enough work.
However, I have been online for a really long time, I started usign the net shortly after I left Straight when it was still a text only newsgroup environment, or even just BBS's - and even then, when the average IQ of netizens was MUCH higher, there were 'flamers' whose lives were centered around anonymous attacks, name calling, and gnerally acting like the idiotarians that they are.
Nothing new under the sun.
All war is deception -Sun Tzu
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God, what happened to the days where not being able to run DOS kept the swarming masses away from the net?Remember when Prodigy cost $9 a month??? Well, FLAMERS have always been around, and always will. Little geek-peeps with no life.
This bbs is the only place where many of us can talk about the program with folks who understand. Those pecker -headed straightlings who lurk about anonomously and post unintelligent drivel are still living it. That is my satisfaction, knowing that they still believe. Don't talk bad about the group. That's heresy. How PATHETIC.
I will post tough, type my beliefs, and look forward to the discussions that ensue. I can easily be reached by phone by anyone who really wants to argue the point. I learned a long time ago it is easy to throw stones from BEHIND a wall
Bill
12/80-12/82
St Pete&ATL
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Remember spending $22/hr for prime time Compuserve?
Remember buying that first ten meg hard drive for $1000?
Ok Ok ..off topic ...but i had to share it...I felt so cheated...blah blah blah
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If I really knew who was at fault I wouldn't be so upset, but still awaiting that result on my end and nobody seems to want to share it, so that is why I am still angry and hurt.
If I had a resolution and could put this to a close, I would probably understand why all this happened. So, don't bash me for my thoughts, I just don't know who to blame and still upset over what happened and why the staff memebers couldn't think for themselves and figure out that this was totally and imorrally wrong!
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I have no desire to bash you.
I only wish to try and explain it as best I can. We could not think for ourselves because we had been robbed of that capacity.
Thought reform is a powerful and sophisticated process that was well understood by the designers of the modality.
Ultimately I blame Ambassador Sembler, Mr. Zappala and the other neo-con zealots who refused to allow any legitimate medical or clinical evaluation from professionals not already connected to the program, or in the program's pocket.
When several members of the original board of directors tried to change this, Sembler and Co. resisted, the more moderate members of the board walked out, and left the zealots in control.
There were no checks and balances, by design, from the top. It would have prevented the program from growing as fast as it did, and from developing the political base that was its true purpose.
Fear is a powerful motivator, and if there is one thing that most staffers shared it was fear of the people above us in the COC.
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Not sure what you mean by "zealots" or COC. I agree that Mel Sembler had much to do with this and doesn't seem to care one way or the other about our problems. I just don't know why anyone has tried to protest the acts of mental, physical, sexual and emotional abuse which occured during this. Why didn't the state come in and take a look to see what is happening? Yeah, the big wigs were behind all this, but there must be a reason why it continued for so long.
Also the fact I understand we were "brainwashed", however, why was none of this ever brought out to the public a LONG time ago? Someone must have been paid off big time or possibly like you say it was a political thing.
Sigh, only if the outsiders knew a lot of what was going on, they would have probably called the state in to investigate, even though many things were covered up and still nothing was said.
Tis sad
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"good staff member"? What a fucking paradox. Here are some obvious facts...
1. Straight wouldn't have existed if it weren't for staff
2. These people received a paycheck for abusing us
3. They were there of their own free will - "brainwashed" or not, it was still their decision
There were no good staff members, at least not in my day. Some were better than others, but that isn't saying much.
I don't blame staff for anything that has gone wrong in my life, but I won't be forgiving what they did to me, either.
Shelby (Cornwell) Earnshaw
st. Pete/VA 82-84
[email protected]
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I really forgive most every staff person that went from the program to staff. It is the execs that really still make my blood boil but in truth I would rather have been abused by them then be them. Their cold black hearts really are their living hell. Never in a million years could I watch children be tortured by each other for God's sake and have no emotion. Never. These people were evil incarnate and their punishment is written on the books they have gotten their karma and justice will be served to them accordingly. as for the others I really can almost understand how they were so completely unprepared for life outside of the program after all Straight was a cult and some of us were brainwashed some weren't and some snapped out of it. As a misbehavior staff was not even ever an option for me but there were people there for so long it was there entire life like a sick cult and that was all they knew. I dunno I am rambling again. No hard feelings to all u x-staffers that know now what they did and to the rest my pity. love you all :smile:
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Shelby writes:
3. They were there of their own free will - "brainwashed" or not, it was still their decision
Umm, doesn't being brainwashed preclude a person's free will?
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Depends on the definition used.
Brainwashed, version 1: Yeah I shouldn't have done that,oops, not my fault.
Brainwashed, version 2: Wow, I was totally fucked up. I ruined lived, permitted abuse, starved people, and was unfit for society. I would kill somebody who would do this to my kid today. I bought the whole cannolli. Please forgive me, I REALLY believed and now I know I was wrong.
VERY DIFFERENT
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I subscribe to the latter, though I never starved anyone.
Point of order- not all of us on staff were there of our own freewill, some staffers were being threatened with jail time if they did not comply. That threat was in effect for at least six months after 7 stepping for som, and longer for others.
Of course we are starting to learn that many of these alleged court orders- never existed.
The law calls that false imprisonment.
As easy as it is to call for others to be martyrs, it is not so easy to become one, to go to jail rather than yell at kids, or turn your head from the scene of the crime.
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If the staff members I had experience with were truly "brainwashed", yes that would preclude free will. That's why I put "brainwashed" in quotation marks. I DO NOT believe for one second that the staff members I dealt with were brainwashed. Others may have been, I can't say because I didn't know them. But as a 7th stepper, I hung out with nearly every VA staff member. They laughed about putting "misbehavers" on the peanut butter diet, making 16 year old boys sit in playpens, making girls sit on the guys side and be threatened with rape. They laughed about letting my former newcomer pound her head on the floor until she was nearly unconscious. They openly trashed specific phasers and would toss around ideas of how they were going to "fuck with their heads" in group the next day. And I saw their faces change when they spoke of leading group. They got off on it. It was a power trip, plain and simple. Over a very captive audience. And I know I'm not the only one who saw staff members sitting in the back of group, laughing so hard at kids being insulted and humiliated, that they had to hide their faces behind their clipboards.
It seems to me that truly brainwashed staff would have believed that what was happening was necessary treatment. And why would that be so damnned amusing?
Truly brainwashed staff would have believed in the rules that they crammed down our throats. But these staff members drank, smoked, were screwing each other - not to mention talking shit about phasers by name during off hours.
So, no I can't excuse them under the guise of being brainwashed, since they weren't. But I can admit that they were probably just too simple minded to see that what they were doing was abuse.
Shelby
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That's discusting me to, they laughed about it? so basically they enjoyed mistreating the phaseres who suffered.
They had no conciounce (sp?) and that is quite disturbing. I'm wondering if the "brainwashing" has something to do with thier conciounce desicions then.
Laughing about someones misfortune isn't nessasary for the treatment of a client! And it will never be.
Abuse is too light of a word, they were knowingly and willfully doing this to those who were there, and why? So they feel better about themselves?
That is disturbing and I hope those staff members who did that are getting punished themselves because it's just VERY wrong!
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"And I know I'm not the only one who saw staff members sitting in the back of group, laughing so hard at kids being insulted and humiliated, that they had to hide their faces behind their clipboards."
I remember seeing that happen in group, many many times.
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James Wrote: "Fear is a powerful motivator, and if there is one thing that most staffers shared it was fear of the people above us in the COC. "
Now isn't that Gods Own truth. I, to this day find it extremely difficult to express my opinion to people higher in the office food chain than I. This, even though I know they value and actively seek my opinion on things. I was terrified of the Execs. and this was a response they actively cultivated. The one time I actually went to one of them with a problem I got fired. I guess the fact that I called them Neo-Nazi's probably had something to do with it.... Go figure!
To be honest, I am deeply embarrassed about my time on staff. I was under the impression that I was assisting people finding a good direction in life and had bought the whole thing so much that I still believe up until this past year. I am not a monster. I am a compasionate human begin who has a tendancy to be a supreme asshole when my medication is not right. The medication is for ADHD, something else I found out this past year.
Clay
PS For those of you who understand the asshole comment, I apologize.
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Let's put the staff into categories. I know that I wanted to be a staff member because they got to stomp on people without even touching them. Hmm, maybe I missed my calling there, oh well. Is there a staff member reading this who never gave anyone a consequence? That is a category right there. I would question anyone who did not. I perceive the staff members at straight, inc. as in the category of "insulation". Executives needed space between them and the victims. As the future staff members were molded in group, the existing ones essentially created a barrier between the execs and the kids. How many times did I try to say something to a junior staff member and was motioned to shush! I could NEVER talk to a staff member about anything at all. I would have to get permission from a 5th phaser, then if he thought it was worthy, then he would send it up. Well, whatever, that's old news now. Don't think for a minute that staff members were hunky dory people in those warehouses. They all share the gestapo label in my book. Typically, Even as people sentenced to die are lined up at the firing squad, there are a few guards that would offer last cigarettes. MG8
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The only time I was able to actually talk to a staff member was when I requested to pull myself from the program. I did this 3 times and my parents denied me everytime. So of course the staff would talk with me one on one and tell me that I have no place else to go and I better stay.
When I turned 18 I was finally able to sign myself out, and various staff actually took the time to convince me to stay, I told them "no way in hell will I stay no matter what you offered me" they got upset and told me that I would die on the streets.
Actually from a conversation I had from a phaser I went to the same rehab with, she told me that one of the staff members went back to using and died, she 7th stepped and everything, I was only up to 2nd phase and never made it past that.
Hmm.. I wonder if it was my will power that I wouldn't allow them to break me ??
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I remember in rules rap how the person relating the "pull yourself" rule would sarcastically say that "if you tell the 5th phaser, and He May send your request up to junior, where you MIGHT get talked to bout it, then SR will, eventually, try to talk you out of it....and so on." The rule was recited with giggles and sarcasim as we all KNEW that requests to pull oneself were routinly IGNORED, even if the client was over 18. In the early 80's, I venture to say almost nobody got to pull themselves unless they split or had an outside helper to pressure the program about it. Many 18 plus people were held for LONG periods, stating the desire to leave. I remember Miller Newton telling a guy in exec rap who had sent a pull request up the coc that"I haven't seen it, follow COC"
JR and SR staff sat on it, but I am sure Miller was 1st to know when a request went in. Sr and jr staff ROUTINELY stalled pull requests, or allowed themselves to be used as cover. Any former staff wish to comment...
Bill
[ This Message was edited by: tampa survivor on 2002-10-18 06:14 ]
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Bill wrote: "The rule was recited with giggles and sarcasim as we all KNEW that requests to pull oneself were routinly IGNORED, even if the client was over 18. In the early 80's, I venture to say almost nobody got to pull themselves unless they split or had an outside helper to pressure the program about it."
You got that right. I saw right away that nobody got to withdraw from the program and that putting through to withdraw only got one in serious trouble. This was the only reason I never ask to get out.
Of course I gave people consequences. I never placed anyone in a restraint or gave any of the more grotesquely creative consequences. When I did OMR I had a list of people and what consequence I was to give them. No explanation as to why. I was supposed to confront them, give them an oppotunity to confess and then deliver what ever consequence was on the list. Kind of like justice is in China.
CL
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Bill from Tampa,
Could you please eMail me at http://www.thestraights.com (http://www.thestraights.com)
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Clay, James, thanks for the way you help us understand some of the inner workings of the program as former staff. Did the EXECs know when a pull request went in or were you told not to tell them out of order? Did they ASK you to stall? What was the conversations like regarding that with your bosses. I want to know as I am trying to put together a better picture of how much the execs really were involved in the day to day stuff. It serves them well to be able to say "the kidstaff fucked that up" but I suspect (KNOW in the case of M. Newton) that they conspired with Sr staff supervisors and SR/JR staff. Kris L., you might know a thing or two on this as a former SR staff....
Bill
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I don't recall a lot of requests to withdraw. My personal attitude toward it was to see it through, much like I don't try to stop patients from signing out AMA today. Could have something to do with the fact that I was falsely imprisoned myself. Any requests that actually made it through a 5th phaser went up the COC, and, of course, to the executives. They had the final say over pretty much everything. That's how things worked in Atlanta. Kris
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You know, I hadn't ever connected my attitude towards AMA patients until just now...I am the same way as you. I try one good discussion, then say have your last meds and eat something before security shows up. I had one a few weeks ago on a cardiac floor I had to work a shift on....found him some clothes and stuffed some juices in his jacket as he was homeless.
For those not in medical biz, AMA is against medical advice, where a patient in hospital decides to leave, regardless of his/her condition. Some nurses and docs get real wound up and try to hold them in various ways.
Bill
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Hey Wes you have mail...
Hope it helps.
Bill
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Shelby said "But as a 7th stepper, I hung out with nearly every VA staff member. They laughed about putting "misbehavers" on the peanut butter diet, making 16 year old boys sit in playpens, making girls sit on the guys side and be threatened with rape. They laughed about letting my former newcomer pound her head on the floor until she was nearly unconscious. They openly trashed specific phasers and would toss around ideas of how they were going to "fuck with their heads" in group the next day. And I saw their faces change when they spoke of leading group. They got off on it. It was a power trip, plain and simple. Over a very captive audience. And I know I'm not the only one who saw staff members sitting in the back of group, laughing so hard at kids being insulted and humiliated, that they had to hide their faces behind their clipboards."
Shelby hit some strong points in her post. This is the other side of my feelings on this issue, as opposed to the lets forgive and forget side of me. This entire thread is just about those two views and I still cannot believe that 100% benevolent actions were embraced by most staffers. God, I am glad I never surrendered, as my conscious would kill me.
Bill
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One question...what did 7 stepper Shelby do to actively stop her staff friends from this despicable behavior? Chances are, he/she was laughing right along with them.
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I remember those names. I use to be petrified sitting on those blue chairs waiting to be called on. I use to flap the hell out of those arms to motivate or else get poked or sat on. Crazy, I'd like to know what happened to some of those people I use to call foster brothers.
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Well, Miss (or is it Mr.?) Cleo, I never said they were my friends. I was tagging along with the guy I was dating. Shortly after we realized what horrible, lying mother-fuckers these "caring, devoted" staff members really were, we came up with new ways to spend our evenings. I was soon pregnant and had much more important things to occupy myself with than piece-o-shit staff members.
And you'd be wise to never bet against me.
Shelby
[ This Message was edited by: Shelby on 2002-10-19 19:18 ]
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First off I was only a trainee, and even then I was only a fifth phase trainee, and even then I was only in that position for a couple of months at best, probably no more than 5-6 weeks.
Kris ( hedwigfan) was actaully in charge of trainees while I held that position. I can remember a couple of trainee raps with her.
I pulled myself twice via the chain of command (COC). each of the programs operated autonomously- so each had its own quirks. Each program operated under different state laws. In Georgia for example, my understanding was that the program could only legally hold an adult client who asked to elave for 72 hours. My understanding was that in Florida, there was far less oversight, and the program was very well connected- so that they might have been more cavalier about such issues.
In Atlanta a SWACA 9sel withdrawal against clinical advice) was moved up the COC very quickly. Indeed we were instructed as trainees that this was one of the few COC that we should pass up immediately, rather than waiting for the evening or morning COC handoff.
For instance the first time I put in the request and was serious about it, I was talking one on one with a Sr. Rusty Mcdanile in fact, within about ten minutes. Later that night or the very next evening my parents drove over from Huntsville for a conference, with Ann Crow. When I held my ground in that conference, they let me sign out.
When I decided to pull myself the last time, they called my parents immediately, and then we had an exit conference that night. Ann handled this conference as well, and the program was clearly not interested in fighting to keep me in any longer.
I was out the door that evening, only this time my parents went against the exec's advice and allowed me to keep control of the car I was driving, and keep money etc. My parents were not happy that I was walking away, and I was too scared and traumatized to tell them the truth about what had happened.
I can't say what drove them to falsely imprison other kids, my sister and Kris both stand out. I can't say why they did not try to pull that with me otehr than perhaps I was clearly prepared to have them call the police and prove to me. I think I actually told Monty Bingham the last time that if they didn't get me out in twenty four hours then I intended to sue for false imprisonment.
I was furious that I had been set back into group from trainee, for something that I percieved as a problem with my work ethic or job performance, and that they had told me it was because of my drug problem, or even worse- in the office I was told that I was 'slipping' because I had been masturbating too much.
I never heard a staff member, or a fifth phaser or a trainee laugh about clients, or do drugs, or talka about any kind of cheating or holding up COC's and if I had, I would have been the first to report it to an exec.
I took what I was doing very serious, but I am sure there were some who did not. I was totally sold on the life or death aspect of the job, I was dedicated and convinced that I was helping people.
I was also brainwashed, I had become somewhat of a neo-nazi, and it took years for that to wear off.
I know that some of you choose to blame those of us who were on staff etc. I can't make you do anything, but I can implore you to understand that each of us was an individual, we were there for our own reasons, and for the most part we had good intentions.
As I have said before, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Lets just hope that the founders reach the end of road.
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There was a distinct separation about the COC's to withdraw. When I first arrived at Straight in '82 the 5th phasers would routinely laugh at people who wanted to withdraw. I saw one guy, Cliff something or another from Willmington, NC, tear up a COC to withdraw in front of the client's face and inform the client that he was NEVER getting out of straight that way. Went back to the side of group and had a good laugh about it. This continued this way for about 6 months to 9 months. Then something happened.
One night an exec. came into group and informed the group that no higher phasers could watch the news on TV or read the newspaper until further notice. A short while later the 5th phasers were chewd put in front of group about COC's to withdraw. They were to be immeadiately processed and given directly to a Jr. or Higher. People started going through the exec. door and not comming back. By then I had bought the whole thing and felt sorry for the poor misguided bastards.
What I believe happened it that some one successfully sued St. Pete or ATL for false imprisionment. This is not to say the leopard changed his spots, Kris can attest to this.
My time on staff came after being out for about a year and a half. I was on staff in 1986 of and on to 1988. I stepped in 1984. While on staff, not much really happened. The misbehavers sucked, all the really bad ones were long gone and no talking behind backs meant no one could pass on their sometimes funny, most often tragic, legacy.
Straight, in my mind, is devided into two separtate places. I am also fairly certain that straight ATL was not nearly as brutal as the other straights. This due in large part to Maria Milnachuk. A definite straight Nazi, but more like Rudolf Hess than Heinrich Himmler.
CL
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I was on Sr. Staff when I left Straight, I left because my guilt combined with the pressure from the higher ups was too much together. When I was on staff, I tried to remember what it was like to sit in the blue chair. I dont feel any worse about the things I did on staff then I did about the things I did as an oldcommer. I do know, that today, I am harsher on my friends when they come to me with thier problems, that I would have been if I had never seen straight. I think that the only reason I went on staff is because I was one of those Straightlings that did not know how to function in the real world without straight directing me, hence being on staff still allowed straight to have control over me. When I left staff, I packed everything in my car and moved to a place where no one new of straight or me. That is how I had to start my life over. I cant say that I would freely apologize for anything I did on staff, it was no diffrent that anything most of us did as oldcomers.
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Sophia,
You say that phasors were not allowed to read newspaper articles about Straight. We all know that newcomers can read nothing, not even road signs, but at some point you earn back the privilege to read. Are you saying that when you were allowed to read, you could not read newspaper accounts about Straight?
Wes Fager
[email protected]
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Hey Wes,
I know your question was directed at someone else, but...
I was in the Springfield VA program when the Fred Collins trial was happening. Staff specifically stated that we would be started over if we read anything about it in the newspaper. Needless to say, I made a beeline for the school library the next day and got hold of the Washington Post.
Shelby
[email protected]
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Wes, I distinctly remember being told in Atlanta that negative news about straight was to be avoided and not discussed.
Bill
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I was in Springfield Straight in '87. I put in to withdraw. I was brought to sit with a staff member (jr or sr, not exec) and a fifth phaser. They told me that if I tried to withdraw, they would have me court ordered on account of the pot I had on me on my intake day. Being an adult and a little more knowledgeable, I now know that it would have been unlikely for that pot, having not been officially handled as evidence by police, to be admitted as evidence in court. However, as a teenager I did not understand this at all. I do not know why it never occured to me to consult a lawyer. The threat of being court ordered worked on me. I thought that even when I turned eighteen I would have no choice to leave without facing court, so I had better be good.
There was also withdrawal interview with my parents present. A higher phaser sat in on it and of course reported back to group, ridiculing me for what I had told my parents about how awful straight was.
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I was in Springfield Straight in '87. I put in to withdraw. I was brought to sit with a staff member (jr or sr, not exec) and a fifth phaser. They told me that if I tried to withdraw, they would have me court ordered on account of the pot I had on me on my intake day. Being an adult and a little more knowledgeable, I now know that it would have been unlikely for that pot, having not been officially handled as evidence by police, to be admitted as evidence in court. However, as a teenager I did not understand this at all. I do not know why it never occured to me to consult a lawyer. The threat of being court ordered worked on me. I thought that even when I turned eighteen I would have no choice to leave without facing court, so I had better be good.
There was also withdrawal interview with my parents present. A higher phaser sat in on it and of course reported back to group, ridiculing me for what I had told my parents about how awful straight was.
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Wes,
The time that we were ALL told not to watch or read anything at all was when 60 minutes aired in 1984. At least in Atlanta.
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That rule was not enforced in Michigan Straight in 1990. The rule for pulling went as such : Need to flag down a 5th phaser when meds were passed out in the morning and we need to request it with the nurse. She in turn would go to staff and if your request was granted you would be pulled out of group to speak to staff and your parents and see if you were allowed to be "pulled".
If you are 18 and not court ordered you can pull yourself from the program and your request would be granted within 24 hours.
On 2002-10-18 06:12:00, Tampa survivor wrote:
I remember in rules rap how the person relating the "pull yourself" rule would sarcastically say that "if you tell the 5th phaser, and He May send your request up to junior, where you MIGHT get talked to bout it, then SR will, eventually, try to talk you out of it....and so on." The rule was recited with giggles and sarcasim as we all KNEW that requests to pull oneself were routinly IGNORED, even if the client was over 18. In the early 80's, I venture to say almost nobody got to pull themselves unless they split or had an outside helper to pressure the program about it. Many 18 plus people were held for LONG periods, stating the desire to leave. I remember Miller Newton telling a guy in exec rap who had sent a pull request up the coc that"I haven't seen it, follow COC"
JR and SR staff sat on it, but I am sure Miller was 1st to know when a request went in. Sr and jr staff ROUTINELY stalled pull requests, or allowed themselves to be used as cover. Any former staff wish to comment...
Bill
[ This Message was edited by: tampa survivor on 2002-10-18 06:14 ]
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What the hell guys don't let them turn us against each other like they did in the program. Their whole operation was based on turning us against ourselves and each other. We are all victims. Staff is also.
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Yeah, its me again,"say hello to the bad guy". Seriously though, I guess alot of people were offended by my" stop fucking complaining" remark. Well let me apologize for my insensitivity. I just came back to this thread today and was really surprised by the strong reaction to my post. My intentions were not to ridicule or hurt anyone. I was in Straight for over 2 yrs. Straight, however, compared to what I had been through prior to that was, relativily speaking, not the worst place I couldve ended up. I am not nor have I ever been a straightling. Yes, I was on staff because at the time I BELIEVED in what I was doing, I was in straight in the 80s and at 16 a majority of my friends had passed away and a couple of the older ones were in prison.Yes I was on a personal crusade. MI straight, although still abusive in many ways, did not have physical restraints, hence a "client" could walk out of the building at will. Perhaps with having freedom of choice came more compassion from those higher on the chain of command. I know that that kind of "freedom" was nonexistent at the other facilities. When restraining laws passed in MI the whole dynamics of the "program" shifted.Yes I do believe that I was compassionate and very empathetic. As for my earlier post, since you believe in one being able to expresses ones feelings freely, Im sure you understand that we all get exasperated from time to time. It is also not easy to be severly critized for what one did in a loving way and with noble intent. I do not hide who I am Iam not ashamed my name is Quddus and my user name is Quddusism. my e mail is [email protected]. Once again I sincerly apologize to anyone whom took offense to my post. Was it really that deep? perhaps
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Quddus, you are one of the few and rare staff that I recall in Michigan that was compassionate. As I think more and more about your name, I do remember more and more about you and your being on staff.
There were many raps you lead that you did not veer in the direction of humiliation, yelling or make someone feel like crap. As I recall you were a gentle person and someone with a sincere and forgiving heart.
I'm not sure how you accomplished that when a few other staff memebers (not to mention names) were unlike that.
I have had much time to look back on this and you as well, now that I recall you were not one of the people I remember that were harsh on others. :smile:
Thank you for the things you've done to try to go above all others and not give in.
[ This Message was edited by: ladyjerrico on 2002-10-22 15:35 ]
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I didn't know how to deal with the anger and hurt, so I avoided it until I forgot. Then this site. Does that mean I'm asleep?
TM
Bill I remember you, glad you're still around
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Thanks. I rather glad and amazed that I'm still around too!
Are you from my atlanta or St Pete days? Glad your here now. Take the banter between people lightly...the best stuff is in the old posts where scrolling through topics made my "sleepiness" fall away.
Bill
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That's because the federal government is putting more aggression stuff in the water supply to get the nation pumped for war.
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Sorry this is so late. That is correct! We were told not to read newspaper articles about straight even after second phase.
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Man, talk about raising the dead...this thread is older than dirt. :eek:
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I'm ashamed to say I went on staff partly as a way to escape the hell of being a phaser more quickly. I was recruited and very afraid to say no, as well. I quickly learned it wasn't better, only a little different. The humiliation, abuse, fear, etc, happened in the staff offices then I had to go out and pretend to have it together OR ELSE. I used to get confronted by senior staff constantly for not being tough enough, confronting people, etc. I just wasnt' good at that stuff. I got put in straight at age 13 and abandoned there by my parents, who left the country. I'm not sure, but possibly being one of the youngest there had some significance, I dunno. It was hell from start to finish and everything I did was out of fear.
-thomas-
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quddas,
we all vent here in our own ways.
I have always personally felt that this is a place for people who suffered there to try talk with others who understand, and hopefully get the M.I.'s flowing (sorry, couldn't help myself).
Seriously though, most come here just to talk about common experiences we shared, how we have fought (or not) through them, and how our lives are today.
Just please understand that alot of us are still suffering even 20 years later, no one we know around us physically has a clue, and alot of us live in alot of pain and are misunderstood.
We should not be told to just get over it - it's not that easy . . .
Mithy
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I would have done the same, I'm sure. I never wanted to be on trainee. But I din't want to get set back for having a bad attitude about the program if I said no. Did anyone ever say no? I doubt it. It was an offer you couldn't refuse.
Did you ever crib from other trainees in the obs book? I did. Wtf was I supposed to write about people, anyway? I was in school on the weekdays most of the day, off was it 4 days a week? I don't think I ever sent up a coc on anyone for anything the whole time. Now I had to dream something up? Sure, you could write positive stuff, but that was risky. What if staff was about to start them over or something? And you couldn't write only positive stuff, that might get you in trouble too.
The whole thing was a nightmare. As your attorney, it is my duty to inform you that it is not important that you understand what I'm doing or why you're paying me so much money. What's important is that you continue to do so.
--Hunter S. Thompson's Samoan Attorney
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got put in straight at age 13 and abandoned there by my parents, who left the country. I'm not sure, but possibly being one of the youngest there had some significance, I dunno. It was hell from start to finish and everything I did was out of fear.
I had forgotten about this, but reading the above statement made me remember it. It seemed that some people were choosen to be Staff members because of the number of drugs they did (Dave M. shot up drugs and was considered one of the worst druggies) Some because they were in prison before coming in. (I won't mention anyone specific but I knew a Senior who did time in prison before coming in.) And others because of the drastic changes they made in their lives after coming in (like Andy S.)
Just a thought
Don
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Did anyone ever say no? I doubt it. It was an offer you couldn't refuse.
Yes, Keith Ellis went through the PT Class then the night before he was going to be promoted, retracted his Resume and told Staff he wasn't interested. :wave: Less than a month later, he 7th Stepped.
Don
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So nice to see all the post :wave: Hey so glad you all made it.This made my morning and it's great your awake.I am from Elan but,we all can relate and see the programs were not that different.I hurt for your pain and that gives me strenth,forgive?I don't forget. I have moved on.I don't let anger rule me,cause then I would not be free.I come here to say it!It's a wonderful freedom for me.say it you'll like it.
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We were children from a era were you didn't say no.Being sent to a cult we really had no choice.
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People who said they wanted to be on staff moved very quickly through their phases. They were the same people who never got in trouble for doing the same thing another person would do because they wanted to be on staff. :flame:
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I'll cop to that. I'm sorry if I hurt you. I'd been living this role all my life up to that point.
If you want to talk about complicity and retribution, where do we draw the line? Every teacher and school faculty member who didn't do anything to protect us? All the law enforcement people who maintained the perimeter in our little prison without walls? All the pop shrinks and all the talk show hosts and all the audience members who do their part to re-enforce the doctrine?
A lot of people have taken umberage at my comparing forced treatment to Stalinist reeducation, the Program and DARE to Nazi Hitler Jugend, area drug taskforces to storm troopers and those 1-800-BEA-SNITch anonymous tip hotlines, Citizens On Patrol and police organized neighborhood watch programs to the Nazi Stazi.
But no one, so far, has shown me any real serious flaw in the comparison. Even the prima facia evidence that there has been no mass execution of drug war prisoners is starting to fall apart as we see more and more often headlines about malnutrition, food poisoning and forced labour in our prison system where roughly half of the inmates are drug war POWs.
If it's accurate to say that the core of the Program is totalism philosophy, then the Program is so deeply entrenched in our society that it's a part of who we are. Like the German people since WWII, we're going to have to come to terms with this ugly reality and find ways to forgive eachother or go on hating.
As a society, we are almost all complicit in this nightmare. We're all in it together. We're not going to punish our way out of this.
"If only there were evil people somewhere, insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"--Alexandr Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago
Are staff members forgivable? Infinitely so! Staff was just another phase of the Program. There are far worse crimes committed every day in this war. At least you don't have to live with having shot an unarmed kid like some of our law enforcement officers do or having sent a hundred young kids to prison for decades like a lot of our judges and prosecutors do. I wonder how they sleep at night!
for it is a truth, which the experience of all ages has attested, that the people are commonly most in danger when the means of insuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.
--Alexander Hamilton
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous
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I forgive almost everyone who cops to the idea that we were duped and we almost all committed trespasses upon others while under cultic influences.
Those that, even now,sit back and say get over it or you would be dead without it , or any other similar program rhetoric do not have my respect.There's so much comedy on television. Does that cause comedy in the streets?
-- Dick Cavett
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I thought I was ex from fellings of the past.I hear you I feel pain and I suffer,inside,I don't let it effecT ME ON THE OUTSIDE though.and the two don't run together I have worked hard to move on and be happy,even though I know i am so different.I still have no family because I was so Elan when I got out and they think?
Keep your head,remember what the good book said lmao Peace out
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I thought I was ex from fellings of the past.I hear you I feel pain and I suffer,inside,I don't let it effecT ME ON THE OUTSIDE though.and the two don't run together I have worked hard to move on and be happy,even though I know i am so different.I still have no family because I was so Elan when I got out and they think?
Keep your head,remember what the good book said lmao Peace out
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On 2003-10-22 17:02:00, GregFL wrote:
"I forgive almost everyone who cops to the idea that we were duped and we almost all committed trespasses upon others while under cultic influences.
Those that, even now,sit back and say get over it or you would be dead without it , or any other similar program rhetoric do not have my respect.There's so much comedy on television. Does that cause comedy in the streets?
-- Dick Cavett
"
Thank you greg for your wisdom!!! :tup:
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I read that Mel is busy working up more treatment centers in Canada? Someone is anyways.
What's to keep me from changing my name and getting a job in one of those things and just really filing a suit when I see some crap going down?!?
I was sort of wuss in treatment. I let four people go when they were at my home. I never restrained anyone. Although I counseled and yelled at people when they wanted me to motivate in group, I was never really there with my heart. All that defeated frustration got put toward therapizing my peers. False appeal to authority.
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Yes!
Now lets have a song! How bout zippity doo da zippity day..........
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On 2002-10-17 06:15:00, Shelby wrote:
"If the staff members I had experience with were truly "brainwashed", yes that would preclude free will. That's why I put "brainwashed" in quotation marks. I DO NOT believe for one second that the staff members I dealt with were brainwashed. Others may have been, I can't say because I didn't know them. But as a 7th stepper, I hung out with nearly every VA staff member. They laughed about putting "misbehavers" on the peanut butter diet, making 16 year old boys sit in playpens, making girls sit on the guys side and be threatened with rape. They laughed about letting my former newcomer pound her head on the floor until she was nearly unconscious. They openly trashed specific phasers and would toss around ideas of how they were going to "fuck with their heads" in group the next day. And I saw their faces change when they spoke of leading group. They got off on it. It was a power trip, plain and simple. Over a very captive audience. And I know I'm not the only one who saw staff members sitting in the back of group, laughing so hard at kids being insulted and humiliated, that they had to hide their faces behind their clipboards.
It seems to me that truly brainwashed staff would have believed that what was happening was necessary treatment. And why would that be so damnned amusing?
Truly brainwashed staff would have believed in the rules that they crammed down our throats. But these staff members drank, smoked, were screwing each other - not to mention talking shit about phasers by name during off hours..."
...[ This Message was edited by: fka on 2005-05-08 16:25 ]
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Oh, no doubt! I talked to Charles Pendergras a couple of years ago. Felt like showering, washing my ear especially and boiling the phone when I was done. What a prick! He got off on it and still think's it's fucking funny! Prick!
But I know there were others who were just ... drinking the kool-aid but deeply. I think you have to talk to whoever you're mad at and make up your own mind.I'm a PATRIOT because I believe in the nations ability to un-fuck itself.
--Nihilanthic
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Round 'em up and gun 'em down, I say
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Yo - Tampa Survivor,
I hear ya, i mean the whole thing is just a mess. As phasers we didn't have a whole lot of options, and i wasn't there by my own choice. If i'd 'a' been 18 i would 'a' signed myself out in a heartbeat. As it was i did everything i could to resist. i managed to cop out off 1st phase on my 64th day, but a bunch of 7-steeppers/(ex)staff hunted me down after 2 days, they physically had to grab me off the street, i mean they abducted me and threw me into their car and sped away. i struggled w/them and even pulled a knife out and held it up on the drivers' throat and threatened to bleed him if he didn't let me out. i was in the back seat w/1 7-stepper/(ex)staff on either side of me, 4 of them altogether in the vehicle. Well i really wasn't about to cut the kid. i was just hoping the threat would be enough but it wasn't. Some "druggie freinds" of mine had been in pursuit of the vehicle i was in and ther was a high speed car chase down Braddock rd. Suddenly the clutch burned out in the vehicle i was in. My loyal and devoted "druggie freinds" caught up to us at that point and tried to free me but the 7-steppers/(ex)staff just kept me inside the vehicle w/the doors locked 'till the cops showed up. i told the cop i wanted to be emancipated. the next day i was brought back into group. This is only 1 chapter in a long history of personal resistence. i mean there were times when i sat w/my hand down for months at a time, i was on all kinds of consequences, and once i was kept in an intake room for a week because staff was afraid of my influence on the group. my point here is that i did everything i could think of not to participate in the injustice that was all around me. eventually though i decided that i had to play along if i ever wanted to get out. i habitually played along 'till 3rd phase and then i would run on my 1st day back to school. i copped-out and was brought back 4 times, so phasers i can easily forgive, we were all in the same trap together. The staff though is a little different. Some of them weren't so bad and some even seemed compassionate at times but there were definately some who were on sadistic ego trips. i am tempted to name names but that would only be a little bit of revenge and not justice. i was groomed for staff myself, but knew all along that once i graduated i would want nothing more to do w/the straight gang rape. So i do think staff has something to apologize for but i'm not holding my breath.
Wether you decide to forgive or not only effects you; why live in meanness, why perpetuate your suffering? Here's some rock-n-roll wisdom for you, i hope it helps: "...so often times it happens that we live our lives in chains and we never even know we have the key..." -The Eagles (Already Gone)
Anyway the real challenge for me was forgiving my folks, i guess i'm still working on that. Best of luck, freind, i feel ya. -starry-eyed pirate
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If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end. People are not commodities. When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.[ This Message was edited by: starry-eyed pirate on 2005-05-09 15:22 ]
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Some staffers I like ...well just reagan youth but he wasnt a dick.
The rest can get fucked. I hate steven brooks alot more than anyone but he has a horrible loser shitty life..in prison or whatever the fuck he does now. :wave:
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though he wasn't on staff when i was there...timmy kicks ass...the rest can get fucked in the ass by hitler for all i care....well, heath d. was cool too
damn....fuck straight
:???:
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Honest to God, if it hadn't been for what we did to Bobby, I probably would have gone on staff. It was an offer you couldn't refuse, unless your parents were fed up w/ the bullshit already. And my mom bought in so hard, she kept going to OM long after I left and had a kid.
Not only can I forgive it, but there, but for the grace of the gods go I.
Keep close to Nature's heart... and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean.
-- John Muir