Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on April 14, 2009, 07:46:02 PM
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Katie Carter
Sent: Yesterday, 07:49
by JustMeHere
It is I, aka the Evil Step Monster, just wanting to put in our side:
First thing, I think it's interesting that you have on your page before you register:
You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us.
But then you allow people to tell Katie to slit Michaels throat, or people tell him to kill himself in various ways, or to "fill their email boxes with flames". If this isn't "abusive...slanderous, hateful, threatening..." I'd hate to see what your idea of that is.
And just so you know, Katie isn't giving you the whole truthful story. Yes, she is a wonderful writer. She truly has a gift and we have told her that. We also tried to keep her grounded by telling her that she isn't correct in believing she can just get a job as a writer right out of high school and they will pay her enough to live on. She definitely lives in a dream world and if you don't support her then she retaliates. Isn't it our job as parents to help them believe they can do things in life, but it has to be within reason? For awhile she was going to be a vet. However math and science are NOT her strong suits at all. Would you support someone who wants to be a pilot but is almost blind? Wouldn't you try to show them where their strengths lie and what things are available there?
If you truly knew her, and knew our side of it fully, you all wouldn't be saying these hurtful things. She is a manipulative lying thief, an emotional vampire that is never happy with anything that is given to her. Yes, I have "checked out" of this relationship but only to save my sanity and to have any sort of relationship with the rest of the family. I have not turned her brothers against her. I didn't need to as she has done that well enough on her own.
If you give Katie an inch she doesn't stop at wanting a mile. If you take her out to a nice dinner, she complains of the high prices and then orders the most expensive thing on the menu. If you ask if she has done her chores, she'll look you straight in the face and say (loudly) "YES, I have" only to find later on that she has not done them, or only done what she wanted to do. If anyone is missing money she always denies it at the top of her lungs, only to come clean about it months later.
When Mike talked of a "meltdown", maybe he should have explained to you what that is so you'd understand better. Her meltdowns would go from 1-3 hours, screaming, throwing things, breaking things, threatening everyone -- even threatening her father to kick him in the balls or break his ribs -- spitting at people, just completely out of control. Now if you people think this is acceptable behaviour, God love ya, because here in the real world it is not. You cannot "love" a person through this, you cannot just "talk them down" from it, it always escalated to her being physically held down (restrained), either on the floor or in a chair until she calmed down so she hopefully didn't hurt herself or anyone else any more.
So it seems that you all know much more than us, even though a lot of you have no kids of your own. Something I learned long ago was to never say never when it comes to talking about others kids compared to how you'll raise yours. So if you want to take her in, support her and her "dreams", you just go right ahead.
She has done nothing to prepare herself for her upcoming graduation and emancipation. Though we have tried, supported, yelled, cried, talked, everything you can think of. She fits in well with you people as she also knows it all.
1st Response
I can tell you didn't write this message to me personally, I can only guess you sent it out to a few key players of this site, so I won't bother defending the obvious misses in judgment of my character or intentions. However I will mention that the mind state that you are portraying, both in your blog and in this letter (or in the simple fact that you felt the need to send this letter in the first place) only backs up everything we have been able to assume about you.
If you haven't realized, Katie has not been downplaying her role in her tumultuous adolescence, in fact she openly admits that she succumbed to her anger and pain and acted out in ways that were not healthy for her and deeply effected her family. This is not a question of what, it is a question of why. She has decided to write this story, regardless of how damning or challenging it may be in order to put her past in perspective and learn something from it, deal with it and grow from it. She is not here to justify herself to a crowd of people who would support her anyway, that is not the point, and we do not support her in doing this for that reason.
The fact that you felt it appropriate to send us all private messages in order to call her a liar, and a thief and all the other insults you direct at her character is only a reflection of how you have been treating Katie all along. Don't you want Katie to finally get over all this? Are you even capable of letting your judgmental attitude go, if not to give her the breathing room to heal but just to keep the peace? You have been picking her wounds since she was a young child... you need to understand how detrimental this can be to the psyche of a mentally fragile individual, and STOP. Katie has mentioned her struggles with bullies, but it really seems that you are truly the biggest "bully" in Katie's life. I will assume you are simply not aware of the psychological effects of your behavior, so I wont go so far as to say you are doing this on purpose but I do believe that you and Katie have personalities that DO NOT mix and you are not a good fit to be a replacement for her mother. You do not love her and you apparently have no semblance of maternal instincts concerning her and her condition. She has a mental disorder, I believe severe depression, and she has special needs. People with her challenges need special care and if they are not given that special care the disorder can be exacerbated. Your mean spirited attitude and jail house parenting style had a very detrimental effect on her psyche, and in essence YOU created the monster in her that you can't stand.
You can't keep punishing, blaming and holding everything against Katie, YOU have to make a change in your parenting/ supporting in order to help her grow out of this. Please be aware that by placing her in CCM you delayed her maturation process by how ever many years she was in CCM, she may be 18 now, but she is still 15 in many ways. At some point you need to realize that enough is enough, constantly berating her, reminding her of how much you detest her or how her past actions make her "unworthy" only ad fuel to her fire... If you hate how much she blows up... then you need to stop putting mental dynamite in her pocket. If anything, I think you checking out of the relationship is simply the best thing, I would even go further to recommend that you stay out of her life entirely, let her father be her father and you can just be his wife, not her mother. I know you may reject any responsibility for her condition, but you must realize if you continue to exacerbate her depression you will cripple her will to ever pull out of this.
As much as you may think this is some kind of parent hate fest it is not, it is an intervention. We read your blogs and were so disturbed with your hateful take on Katie's story we reached out to her, and simply asked her for her side. In doing so we realized that Katie NEEDS to get all this off her chest and put it into perspective. She needs to realize that your lack of compassion, love and parenting skills has nothing to do with her, therefore encouraging her to grow out of the need to "blow up"or "melt down". You should have realized by now that this only happens because she holds so much pain inside, if we can help her understand her past, and come to terms with her experiences, that pain will start to diffuse and she will begin to heal and mature. What you need to do is give her the time, space and drama-free atmosphere she needs to find herself and stop trying to hold her down with your "must punish" way of thinking. I have suggested to her she needs to go to college out of your city, possibly even out of state. However the fact that you have spent a magnanimous amount of money on CCM, I can see how giving her a college education would be the last thing you would be willing to do. It sucks that she will have to suffer for that mistake as she already has bore the brunt of that ill fated decision, but I suggest you at least support her in getting her own student loans.
If you are seriously unwilling to give her the love and support she needs at this point, and insist on continuing to blame her and make her life miserable, then by all means, send her here. I live in San Diego, CA right next to SDSU. Have her apply for college and look into student housing, I will be willing to take responsibility for mentoring her through these integral steps in her maturation. I can't promise you I will be able to financially support her, learning to provide for herself is something her parents should have taught her by now, but I am more than capable of giving her the emotional support and positive example she needs to learn what it means to be an adult. I just think its sad that once again you are so unwilling to set aside your hateful, judgmental and vile attitude to simply be a good mother to Katie, is it really any wonder why she has these epic melt-downs?????
-Chelsea
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Katie Carter
Sent: Yesterday, 07:49
by JustMeHere
It is I, aka the Evil Step Monster, just wanting to put in our side:
First thing, I think it's interesting that you have on your page before you register:
You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us.
But then you allow people to tell Katie to slit Michaels throat, or people tell him to kill himself in various ways, or to "fill their email boxes with flames". If this isn't "abusive...slanderous, hateful, threatening..." I'd hate to see what your idea of that is.
And just so you know, Katie isn't giving you the whole truthful story. Yes, she is a wonderful writer. She truly has a gift and we have told her that. We also tried to keep her grounded by telling her that she isn't correct in believing she can just get a job as a writer right out of high school and they will pay her enough to live on. She definitely lives in a dream world and if you don't support her then she retaliates. Isn't it our job as parents to help them believe they can do things in life, but it has to be within reason? For awhile she was going to be a vet. However math and science are NOT her strong suits at all. Would you support someone who wants to be a pilot but is almost blind? Wouldn't you try to show them where their strengths lie and what things are available there?
If you truly knew her, and knew our side of it fully, you all wouldn't be saying these hurtful things. She is a manipulative lying thief, an emotional vampire that is never happy with anything that is given to her. Yes, I have "checked out" of this relationship but only to save my sanity and to have any sort of relationship with the rest of the family. I have not turned her brothers against her. I didn't need to as she has done that well enough on her own.
If you give Katie an inch she doesn't stop at wanting a mile. If you take her out to a nice dinner, she complains of the high prices and then orders the most expensive thing on the menu. If you ask if she has done her chores, she'll look you straight in the face and say (loudly) "YES, I have" only to find later on that she has not done them, or only done what she wanted to do. If anyone is missing money she always denies it at the top of her lungs, only to come clean about it months later.
When Mike talked of a "meltdown", maybe he should have explained to you what that is so you'd understand better. Her meltdowns would go from 1-3 hours, screaming, throwing things, breaking things, threatening everyone -- even threatening her father to kick him in the balls or break his ribs -- spitting at people, just completely out of control. Now if you people think this is acceptable behaviour, God love ya, because here in the real world it is not. You cannot "love" a person through this, you cannot just "talk them down" from it, it always escalated to her being physically held down (restrained), either on the floor or in a chair until she calmed down so she hopefully didn't hurt herself or anyone else any more.
So it seems that you all know much more than us, even though a lot of you have no kids of your own. Something I learned long ago was to never say never when it comes to talking about others kids compared to how you'll raise yours. So if you want to take her in, support her and her "dreams", you just go right ahead.
She has done nothing to prepare herself for her upcoming graduation and emancipation. Though we have tried, supported, yelled, cried, talked, everything you can think of. She fits in well with you people as she also knows it all.
1st Response
I can tell you didn't write this message to me personally, I can only guess you sent it out to a few key players of this site, so I won't bother defending the obvious misses in judgment of my character or intentions. However I will mention that the mind state that you are portraying, both in your blog and in this letter (or in the simple fact that you felt the need to send this letter in the first place) only backs up everything we have been able to assume about you.
If you haven't realized, Katie has not been downplaying her role in her tumultuous adolescence, in fact she openly admits that she succumbed to her anger and pain and acted out in ways that were not healthy for her and deeply effected her family. This is not a question of what, it is a question of why. She has decided to write this story, regardless of how damning or challenging it may be in order to put her past in perspective and learn something from it, deal with it and grow from it. She is not here to justify herself to a crowd of people who would support her anyway, that is not the point, and we do not support her in doing this for that reason.
The fact that you felt it appropriate to send us all private messages in order to call her a liar, and a thief and all the other insults you direct at her character is only a reflection of how you have been treating Katie all along. Don't you want Katie to finally get over all this? Are you even capable of letting your judgmental attitude go, if not to give her the breathing room to heal but just to keep the peace? You have been picking her wounds since she was a young child... you need to understand how detrimental this can be to the psyche of a mentally fragile individual, and STOP. Katie has mentioned her struggles with bullies, but it really seems that you are truly the biggest "bully" in Katie's life. I will assume you are simply not aware of the psychological effects of your behavior, so I wont go so far as to say you are doing this on purpose but I do believe that you and Katie have personalities that DO NOT mix and you are not a good fit to be a replacement for her mother. You do not love her and you apparently have no semblance of maternal instincts concerning her and her condition. She has a mental disorder, I believe severe depression, and she has special needs. People with her challenges need special care and if they are not given that special care the disorder can be exacerbated. Your mean spirited attitude and jail house parenting style had a very detrimental effect on her psyche, and in essence YOU created the monster in her that you can't stand.
You can't keep punishing, blaming and holding everything against Katie, YOU have to make a change in your parenting/ supporting in order to help her grow out of this. Please be aware that by placing her in CCM you delayed her maturation process by how ever many years she was in CCM, she may be 18 now, but she is still 15 in many ways. At some point you need to realize that enough is enough, constantly berating her, reminding her of how much you detest her or how her past actions make her "unworthy" only ad fuel to her fire... If you hate how much she blows up... then you need to stop putting mental dynamite in her pocket. If anything, I think you checking out of the relationship is simply the best thing, I would even go further to recommend that you stay out of her life entirely, let her father be her father and you can just be his wife, not her mother. I know you may reject any responsibility for her condition, but you must realize if you continue to exacerbate her depression you will cripple her will to ever pull out of this.
As much as you may think this is some kind of parent hate fest it is not, it is an intervention. We read your blogs and were so disturbed with your hateful take on Katie's story we reached out to her, and simply asked her for her side. In doing so we realized that Katie NEEDS to get all this off her chest and put it into perspective. She needs to realize that your lack of compassion, love and parenting skills has nothing to do with her, therefore encouraging her to grow out of the need to "blow up"or "melt down". You should have realized by now that this only happens because she holds so much pain inside, if we can help her understand her past, and come to terms with her experiences, that pain will start to diffuse and she will begin to heal and mature. What you need to do is give her the time, space and drama-free atmosphere she needs to find herself and stop trying to hold her down with your "must punish" way of thinking. I have suggested to her she needs to go to college out of your city, possibly even out of state. However the fact that you have spent a magnanimous amount of money on CCM, I can see how giving her a college education would be the last thing you would be willing to do. It sucks that she will have to suffer for that mistake as she already has bore the brunt of that ill fated decision, but I suggest you at least support her in getting her own student loans.
If you are seriously unwilling to give her the love and support she needs at this point, and insist on continuing to blame her and make her life miserable, then by all means, send her here. I live in San Diego, CA right next to SDSU. Have her apply for college and look into student housing, I will be willing to take responsibility for mentoring her through these integral steps in her maturation. I can't promise you I will be able to financially support her, learning to provide for herself is something her parents should have taught her by now, but I am more than capable of giving her the emotional support and positive example she needs to learn what it means to be an adult. I just think its sad that once again you are so unwilling to set aside your hateful, judgmental and vile attitude to simply be a good mother to Katie, is it really any wonder why she has these epic melt-downs?????
-Chelsea
the pity i had for these "parents" dwindled to nothing. I honestly thought if they "knew" what happened to their kid at WWASP they'd care. They don't. They like that she was tortured. They insist on seeing the very natural human reaction to torture--inflicted on you by your own parents,no less--as more proof of her "badness." They are moronic, obtuse, evil excuses for people who deserve the details of their crimes sent to every relation, as that guest sugested.
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oh my god. Femanon is truly a wonderful person. I didn't think people like that existed :notworthy: :notworthy: :rose: :rose:
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Femanon, You are wrong taking sides like that and posting an email without asking. Did you even read her email? Did you block out the part Katie played in all of this? How can you possibly stand on the sidelines and condem people? You dont have any experience with parenting at all. People who dont have kids and critisize those who do always end up eating crow (always not sometimes). You dont know what you are taking on with having Katie come and stay with you and assume you can do a better parenting job then her parents can.
It seems you are just very angry and can only see what you want to see. Calm down and read the email again. Katie isnt the only victim in all of this.
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the pity i had for these "parents" dwindled to nothing.
Ditto. I'm embarrassed I added my two cents to this whole donkey-wreck of a dramallamatrain to begin with. Consider the fact that Katie is basically posting her story, and the parents, for whatever reason, decided to come in and pick a fight. They basically threw a raw steak out.
k. that's it. Im done. See sig.
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the pity i had for these "parents" dwindled to nothing.
Ditto. I'm embarrassed I added my two cents to this whole donkey-wreck of a dramallamatrain to begin with. Consider the fact that Katie is basically posting her story, and the parents, for whatever reason, decided to come in and pick a fight. They basically threw a raw steak out.
k. that's it. Im done. See sig.
Wrong, fornits posters went to their house and dragged Katie out onto the stage and then continued to flame the fire.
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What blows my mind is these tards are still putting on a nice little show of parenting. The girl graduates from high school soon and is moving out of the house not long after that. So why are they attempting to keep a young girl well grounded at 18 anyway?
At 18 I wanted to be a pilot/astronaut/scientist/writer/donkey herder.
Let the girl dream as it is good for her to do so. What I see here is step-witch lashing out now that daddykin's side of the story is being contested. Which is to be expected all considered. It is to bad that Katie didn't wait till she was out of the house before starting up her own version of the story. Maybe then she could have dished out the real juicy secrets. The stuff she isn't passing along because she is living at home still.
OHHHH Weeeeee.. I can't wait till she kickin' in a crib of her own. This will be enlightening, and every dirty secret of Step-witch Diane will come pouring out. Every nasty deed, every dark act, and every poisonous word that ever passed her lips will eviscerate her on the internet forever. This makes me happy and for this reason I will be staying tuned, beer in hand of course, and eyes wide open for the good stuff to come.
Step-witch you and daddykins flayed her alive on the net for 3 years. You revelled in her captivity and torture. Have you even asked her about the Samoans that work at CCM? I bet you haven't...
How about the iso room?
I bet you haven't..
How do you justify that sort of shit?
So really.. go fuck yourself and be happy femanon is around to play nice.
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Katie Carter
Sent: Yesterday, 07:49
by JustMeHere
It is I, aka the Evil Step Monster, just wanting to put in our side:
First thing, I think it's interesting that you have on your page before you register:
You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated
Speaking of “sexually-oriented” abuse, who else thinks this woman was stimulated in some weird way by thought of her 15 year old step-daughter getting forcefully strip-searched, forced to engage public nudity, and show her pubic breast region to her :higher ranking” fellow detainees or staff once a day for those famous Cross Creek Program daily "underwear and bra checks"?
Organized, for-hire, sexual abuse? How would Diane Carter, of Dayton Ohio, truly, ultimately dominate and hurt her BAD step daughter without it?
So many sick levels to Diane Carter and Micheal Carter, of Ohio!
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Femanon, You are wrong taking sides like that and posting an email without asking. Did you even read her email? Did you block out the part Katie played in all of this? How can you possibly stand on the sidelines and condem people? You dont have any experience with parenting at all. People who dont have kids and critisize those who do always end up eating crow (always not sometimes). You dont know what you are taking on with having Katie come and stay with you and assume you can do a better parenting job then her parents can.
It seems you are just very angry and can only see what you want to see. Calm down and read the email again. Katie isnt the only victim in all of this.
obviously your new here, because I have mentioned several times that It is literally my paying job to raise other peoples children (and yes mentor their teens). I have had extensive training and education in child development, proper parenting techniques and psychology with an emphasis on children with mental disorders. I'm not sure if your too busy shoving your foot in your mouth but I suggest you at least try to go back and read previous posts before you judge why I feel I could be a better mentor to Katie then her step mother is.
For one, from the beginning I would have taken a completely different approach to handling Katies acting out and out bursts. I wont get into that here, but I do know that everything I have ever learned in training, or college or parenting classes has specifically advised against using this particular parenting style with special needs children. Katies is a walking talking example of the detrimental effects of this kind of psychological abuse.
I know you trolls think her parents and other brothers may have been the victims here, and I am not denying that the family can be deeply effected by a child with these issues, but considering that Katie was getting it from all sides, her family at home, the kids at school (which was because of her brother's lack of respect for her privacy) and the institutions she was banished to multiple times in her teen years, that constitutes us seeing this situation as a bit one sided. I'm not removing all responsibility from Katie in order to condemn the parents, and I don't think she does either, its clear that in many ways she blames herself. What we are doing is simply trying to help her understand the difference between learning from her mistakes and letting unnecessary guilt destroy her self esteem. Katie's dad and step mother played a very big part in making Katie so depressed, and I think that needs to be addressed in order to attempt to throw a wrench in this process. Although as she is 18 now it might just be a little too late but I can only hope that BOTH parties can start putting all this into perspective, own up to their responsibility, stop blaming each other and move on.
At this point I am addressing this issue from a psychological stand point, I may be more inclined to point out that the parents had a hand in Katies phychological torment, but I am really trying to make sure this information reaches Katie in a way that allows her to stop taking their blame to heart, and start believing in herself regardless of if they support her or not. This is really about Katie understanding all this so that she can make up her mind about it and put it behind her. Carrying this baggage has only led to her unhappiness and the sooner she makes peace with it the sooner she will be able to go on with her life. Consider this, in life we all carry a bar bell on our shoulders that represents our issues, little by little we get more weight added by the world around us but when we come home, we get to take that bar bell off and heal our sore muscles. For Katie, she doesn't get to take that bar bell off because the people who add to that weight the most are her parents, her family who live at home with her. At some point she needs to learn to reject that extra weight from her family... and give herself time to heal. Oddly enough, I think thats what she finds comforting about Fornits, we let her shed her weight at the door and don't intend to add any more.
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let's not forget that Katie in all likelihood had NO "special needs," simply the normal needs every kid has: to not be abused, to not be used as a punching bag-scape-goat for a dysfunctional family.
Any "weirdness" she may or may not have NOW would be entirely CAUSED by that sort of abuse. You cant emotionally and physically abuse a child (let alone torture them at Cross Creek with techniques designed to destroy them) and expect them to thrive.
God, what sewer do these diseased, obtuse trolls crawl out from? Oh, right, Cross Creek Manor and places like it
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What a fucking crock.
Are those fucking parental "units" doxed yet?
:sue:
I think they need a BBQ.
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Femanon, You are wrong taking sides like that and posting an email without asking. Did you even read her email? Did you block out the part Katie played in all of this? How can you possibly stand on the sidelines and condem people? You dont have any experience with parenting at all. People who dont have kids and critisize those who do always end up eating crow (always not sometimes). You dont know what you are taking on with having Katie come and stay with you and assume you can do a better parenting job then her parents can.
It seems you are just very angry and can only see what you want to see. Calm down and read the email again. Katie isnt the only victim in all of this.
At least you admit she IS a victim.
I hear this refrain commonly from program parents....that none of us are parents and none of us could possibly understand what it's like raising a teenager. You have no idea how wrong you are. Most of us who were victimized by this industry ARE parents now. I am. If you're a regular (if you are then I apologize for repeating this same story..I know y'all must get sick of it), then you know that I have two grown kids and the older one scared the living hell out of me for about 6 or 7 years and STILL does from time to time. She's a true redhead with the temper, drama and energy to match. I've been through the rage, the throwing things, destroying her younger sister's bedroom, the drugs, the sexually acting out (incidentally, I have her permission to speak about her difficulties here), staying out or gone for days. I get it. I understand how frightening this can be. Her grandparents (the same people who put myself and her father in Straight) insisted [/i] that she was "out of control" and going to be "deadinsaneorinjail" if I didn't place her in a program. That's the ONE valuable thing I did take away from Straight. I knew exactly what NOT to do when parenting my own children. I told the grandparents it would be over my dead body and I meant it. Thank god. Whatever we've gone through due to her behavior is minor compared to the damage that would have been done to her if I had shipped her off to strangers to "fix" whatever was wrong. Now, I can't give you or anyone else "the" answer. There isn't one...or not one specific answer. It's different for everyone and every family.
I have read the entire blog. I've read Katie's side too. It doesn't sound like Katie was any worse than my daughter, in fact...from what I've read Katie isn't nearly as 'out of control' as mine. It sounds, to me, like Katie is one of those kids who goes against the norm and the Stepmonster (I have one of those too....program parent married my dad) couldn't take it. Kids come in all shapes, sizes, personalities, temperaments etc. etc. Trying to pigeonhole them into what our standards are just kills that independent spirit. And putting someone like that, who additionally has some emotional or mental issues to deal with is just sick. What would have happened if someone like Van Gogh would've lived in this time and had parents like Katie's? Jesus christ people!!! Not all kids are gonna grow up to be accountants or doctors or lawyers. Instead of condemning their differences, you should be celebrating and encouraging them. That would be the most effective way to help her to succeed. Help her develop that spirit......don't try and punish it out of her dammit! All you end up with when you do that is a resentful, emotionally crippled child that you are now expecting to behave like a normal, well adjusted adult...and YOUR version of an adult at that. Parents really, REALLY seem to have a hard time when they discover that their children actually do have a mind and thoughts and idea(l)s of their own. It can be scary, but it's our JOB to suck it up and deal with it. Most kids are NOT going to die, end up insane or in jail. They WILL fall down...the WILL have scars from their adolescent years, no one gets out unscathed, BUT......damage done by ourselves to ourselves is by FAR easier to repair and deal with than the damage done inside those places, behind closed doors, where you're surrounded by people convinced that they need to "break you down", then "build you up".....ya know, for your own good.
I really hope Katie is able to get far, far away from this stepmonster. Once she's been out amongst the real people of the world she'll see that not everyone views it in such black and white terms. She's realize that there are TONS of people like her. They're called artists. Some of them starve, some make a very good living.
Oh, and Femanon......you ROCK!!!! :tup: To those condemning her for not being a parent, I AM a parent and agree with everything she wrote. I would have loved to have had someone like her to talk with my own hellion when we were going thru our really rough times.
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Oh, and Femanon......you ROCK!!!! :tup: To those condemning her for not being a parent, I AM a parent and agree with everything she wrote. I would have loved to have had someone like her to talk with my own hellion when we were going thru our really rough times.
I know. She's amazing.
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Anne and Femanon, I don’t think you are being very fair or open minded about Diane and Michaels situation. I was involved with all of my childrens birth and there really isn’t much to it. So roughly I Stand there tell the mother to breath, push on the stomach a little to assist the baby down the canal. Then snip the umbilical cord and hand the baby to the nurses to be checked out. So I could comfortably say I can deliver babies. But what would happen if the baby went into breach position or got stuck in the birth canal or the mother stopped breathing? Although I may feel like an expert there are thousands of situations that I am not prepared for or have experienced.
The same goes for your experiences with raising children. There are thousands of different flavors, shapes and sizes. No two act exactly alike. I am sure you faced challenges like we all have, but you haven’t faced even a fraction of the possible challenges that beset children across the country. None of us have.
You don’t know Diane and Michael or Katie. You cannot become an expert on their family by reading their blog and diary and you are not an expert in parenting because you raised a few kids. The same as I cant call myself an expert in child birth because of birthing experience.
NeilW
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Anne and Femanon, I don’t think you are being very fair or open minded about Diane and Michaels situation.
Well now....there's a shocker! ::)
I was involved with all of my childrens birth and there really isn’t much to it. So roughly I Stand there tell the mother to breath, push on the stomach a little to assist the baby down the canal. Then snip the umbilical cord and hand the baby to the nurses to be checked out. So I could comfortably say I can deliver babies. But what would happen if the baby went into breach position or got stuck in the birth canal or the mother stopped breathing? Although I may feel like an expert there are thousands of situations that I am not prepared for or have experienced.
Did I claim to be an expert at any time?? No, but nice strawman. I responded to the multiple posts criticizing either Femanon or anyone else for not having children. I have them. Grown ones even, so I can at least speak from experience, which is what we were all accused of not having. Now that I've disproven that point, you guys start moving the goalposts around. Typical deflection from program people.
The same goes for your experiences with raising children. There are thousands of different flavors, shapes and sizes. No two act exactly alike. I am sure you faced challenges like we all have, but you haven’t faced even a fraction of the possible challenges that beset children across the country. None of us have.
Of course not. You're moving the goalposts again, but I'm sure you're well aware of that as you seem to be well versed in program debating (deflecting) tactics. I responded to the claim that we didn't have experience raising children. We do. And in my case I've had experience raising an incredibly difficult child to deal with....partly thru no fault of her own, partly directly due to her own actions.
You don’t know Diane and Michael or Katie. You cannot become an expert on their family by reading their blog and diary and you are not an expert in parenting because you raised a few kids. The same as I cant call myself an expert in child birth because of birthing experience.
NeilW
Gawwwwd...you're like those republican douches that just CANNOT stick to the topic of a discussion adn think if they repeat the same lie over and over again, it will somehow, magically become true. I never said I was an expert. What I said was that I have experience raising children.
And yeah.....let's talk about that 'no one solution' issue. That's exactly what programs claim to offer. THEY have the answer. THEY know how to deal with these damn druggie (or insert your favorite term here...rebellious, entitled, anorexic or overweight, ADD, ADHD, etc. etc. etc. etc.) kids. THEY are the experts. They're not. Far from it. The best expert at raising your own child is YOU.
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Seems I overstated my point a bit. Didn’t mean to upset you. But you may have seen my point initially but a few others needed some repeating. As I have read thru here I read posts about how the problems were all due to parental errors but I haven’t seen any evidence brought forward on that. The lying, stealing and abuse towards her parents or siblings by Katie were not even given a second thought or worthly of discussion, which I found interesting.
The knee jerk on this forum is to blame the parents and give the kid a free pass, where giving the kid a free pass might have been what caused the problem to begin with… we just don’t know. Lol Do you see what I mean? Its best to listen and get the whole story. if it ever unfolds, before passing judgment on Katie or the parents.
NeilW
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Katie Carter
Sent: Yesterday, 07:49
by JustMeHere
It is I, aka the Evil Step Monster, just wanting to put in our side:
First thing, I think it's interesting that you have on your page before you register:
You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us.
But then you allow people to tell Katie to slit Michaels throat, or people tell him to kill himself in various ways, or to "fill their email boxes with flames". If this isn't "abusive...slanderous, hateful, threatening..." I'd hate to see what your idea of that is.
And just so you know, Katie isn't giving you the whole truthful story. Yes, she is a wonderful writer. She truly has a gift and we have told her that. We also tried to keep her grounded by telling her that she isn't correct in believing she can just get a job as a writer right out of high school and they will pay her enough to live on. She definitely lives in a dream world and if you don't support her then she retaliates. Isn't it our job as parents to help them believe they can do things in life, but it has to be within reason? For awhile she was going to be a vet. However math and science are NOT her strong suits at all. Would you support someone who wants to be a pilot but is almost blind? Wouldn't you try to show them where their strengths lie and what things are available there?
If you truly knew her, and knew our side of it fully, you all wouldn't be saying these hurtful things. She is a manipulative lying thief, an emotional vampire that is never happy with anything that is given to her. Yes, I have "checked out" of this relationship but only to save my sanity and to have any sort of relationship with the rest of the family. I have not turned her brothers against her. I didn't need to as she has done that well enough on her own.
If you give Katie an inch she doesn't stop at wanting a mile. If you take her out to a nice dinner, she complains of the high prices and then orders the most expensive thing on the menu. If you ask if she has done her chores, she'll look you straight in the face and say (loudly) "YES, I have" only to find later on that she has not done them, or only done what she wanted to do. If anyone is missing money she always denies it at the top of her lungs, only to come clean about it months later.
When Mike talked of a "meltdown", maybe he should have explained to you what that is so you'd understand better. Her meltdowns would go from 1-3 hours, screaming, throwing things, breaking things, threatening everyone -- even threatening her father to kick him in the balls or break his ribs -- spitting at people, just completely out of control. Now if you people think this is acceptable behaviour, God love ya, because here in the real world it is not. You cannot "love" a person through this, you cannot just "talk them down" from it, it always escalated to her being physically held down (restrained), either on the floor or in a chair until she calmed down so she hopefully didn't hurt herself or anyone else any more.
So it seems that you all know much more than us, even though a lot of you have no kids of your own. Something I learned long ago was to never say never when it comes to talking about others kids compared to how you'll raise yours. So if you want to take her in, support her and her "dreams", you just go right ahead.
She has done nothing to prepare herself for her upcoming graduation and emancipation. Though we have tried, supported, yelled, cried, talked, everything you can think of. She fits in well with you people as she also knows it all.
1st Response
I can tell you didn't write this message to me personally, I can only guess you sent it out to a few key players of this site, so I won't bother defending the obvious misses in judgment of my character or intentions. However I will mention that the mind state that you are portraying, both in your blog and in this letter (or in the simple fact that you felt the need to send this letter in the first place) only backs up everything we have been able to assume about you.
If you haven't realized, Katie has not been downplaying her role in her tumultuous adolescence, in fact she openly admits that she succumbed to her anger and pain and acted out in ways that were not healthy for her and deeply effected her family. This is not a question of what, it is a question of why. She has decided to write this story, regardless of how damning or challenging it may be in order to put her past in perspective and learn something from it, deal with it and grow from it. She is not here to justify herself to a crowd of people who would support her anyway, that is not the point, and we do not support her in doing this for that reason.
The fact that you felt it appropriate to send us all private messages in order to call her a liar, and a thief and all the other insults you direct at her character is only a reflection of how you have been treating Katie all along. Don't you want Katie to finally get over all this? Are you even capable of letting your judgmental attitude go, if not to give her the breathing room to heal but just to keep the peace? You have been picking her wounds since she was a young child... you need to understand how detrimental this can be to the psyche of a mentally fragile individual, and STOP. Katie has mentioned her struggles with bullies, but it really seems that you are truly the biggest "bully" in Katie's life. I will assume you are simply not aware of the psychological effects of your behavior, so I wont go so far as to say you are doing this on purpose but I do believe that you and Katie have personalities that DO NOT mix and you are not a good fit to be a replacement for her mother. You do not love her and you apparently have no semblance of maternal instincts concerning her and her condition. She has a mental disorder, I believe severe depression, and she has special needs. People with her challenges need special care and if they are not given that special care the disorder can be exacerbated. Your mean spirited attitude and jail house parenting style had a very detrimental effect on her psyche, and in essence YOU created the monster in her that you can't stand.
You can't keep punishing, blaming and holding everything against Katie, YOU have to make a change in your parenting/ supporting in order to help her grow out of this. Please be aware that by placing her in CCM you delayed her maturation process by how ever many years she was in CCM, she may be 18 now, but she is still 15 in many ways. At some point you need to realize that enough is enough, constantly berating her, reminding her of how much you detest her or how her past actions make her "unworthy" only ad fuel to her fire... If you hate how much she blows up... then you need to stop putting mental dynamite in her pocket. If anything, I think you checking out of the relationship is simply the best thing, I would even go further to recommend that you stay out of her life entirely, let her father be her father and you can just be his wife, not her mother. I know you may reject any responsibility for her condition, but you must realize if you continue to exacerbate her depression you will cripple her will to ever pull out of this.
As much as you may think this is some kind of parent hate fest it is not, it is an intervention. We read your blogs and were so disturbed with your hateful take on Katie's story we reached out to her, and simply asked her for her side. In doing so we realized that Katie NEEDS to get all this off her chest and put it into perspective. She needs to realize that your lack of compassion, love and parenting skills has nothing to do with her, therefore encouraging her to grow out of the need to "blow up"or "melt down". You should have realized by now that this only happens because she holds so much pain inside, if we can help her understand her past, and come to terms with her experiences, that pain will start to diffuse and she will begin to heal and mature. What you need to do is give her the time, space and drama-free atmosphere she needs to find herself and stop trying to hold her down with your "must punish" way of thinking. I have suggested to her she needs to go to college out of your city, possibly even out of state. However the fact that you have spent a magnanimous amount of money on CCM, I can see how giving her a college education would be the last thing you would be willing to do. It sucks that she will have to suffer for that mistake as she already has bore the brunt of that ill fated decision, but I suggest you at least support her in getting her own student loans.
If you are seriously unwilling to give her the love and support she needs at this point, and insist on continuing to blame her and make her life miserable, then by all means, send her here. I live in San Diego, CA right next to SDSU. Have her apply for college and look into student housing, I will be willing to take responsibility for mentoring her through these integral steps in her maturation. I can't promise you I will be able to financially support her, learning to provide for herself is something her parents should have taught her by now, but I am more than capable of giving her the emotional support and positive example she needs to learn what it means to be an adult. I just think its sad that once again you are so unwilling to set aside your hateful, judgmental and vile attitude to simply be a good mother to Katie, is it really any wonder why she has these epic melt-downs?????
-Chelsea
I bet when Diane Carter, of Dayton Ohio, child abuser said that in wwaps seminars or those sick parental support groups she was furiously applauded.
I'd love to hear Buzzkill detail those seiminars and "support" groups.
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[quote="Anne Bonney
What would have happened if someone like Van Gogh would've lived in this time[/quote]
Well, we wouldn't have some wierdass paintings, that's for sure. Don't think they'd really be missed.
Oh, I'm gonna get flamed again, I can just tell...
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She is a manipulative lying thief, an emotional vampire that is never happy with anything that is given to her. Yes, I have "checked out" of this relationship but only to save my sanity and to have any sort of relationship with the rest of the family. I have not turned her brothers against her. I didn't need to as she has done that well enough on her own.
[/color]
Thanks,guest, for reposting that and highlighting it in red, I was looking for this and missed it.
Prior to this it wasn’t clear what role Katie played in all the family problems. But it is clear from this post that Katie even managed to abuse her own brothers and push them away further. At this point it was probably the best thing for the step mother to step out of the picture as best she could and let the father handle the matter. But all those days where the step mother and brothers had to stay in their rooms to avoid the hostility just wasn’t healthy for any of them. It was clear that placement outside of the home was the only answer at this point.
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1st Response
I can tell you didn't write this message to me personally, I can only guess you sent it out to a few key players of this site,
As much as you may think this is some kind of parent hate fest it is not, it is an intervention.
I have suggested to her she needs to go to college out of your city, possibly even out of state. However the fact that you have spent a magnanimous amount of money on CCM, I can see how giving her a college education would be the last thing you would be willing to do. It sucks that she will have to suffer for that mistake as she already has bore the brunt of that ill fated decision, but I suggest you at least support her in getting her own student loans.
If you are seriously unwilling to give her the love and support she needs at this point, and insist on continuing to blame her and make her life miserable, then by all means, send her here. I live in San Diego, CA right next to SDSU. Have her apply for college and look into student housing, I will be willing to take responsibility for mentoring her through these integral steps in her maturation. I can't promise you I will be able to financially support her, learning to provide for herself is something her parents should have taught her by now, but I am more than capable of giving her the emotional support and positive example she needs to learn what it means to be an adult. I just think its sad that once again you are so unwilling to set aside your hateful, judgmental and vile attitude to simply be a good mother to Katie, is it really any wonder why she has these epic melt-downs?????
-Chelsea
Well to start off, you are wrong. You are the only person I sent it to. I knew you'd throw it up here to keep the flames going.
Intervention my ass. All you people are doing is leading her down more destructive paths, giving her false hope as you don't actually know her, don't know truths, only believe what you want to believe. Give me a fucking break.
College: Yes, we have also told her she needs to at least go to a college that has dorms on campus, either in state of out. Both of our older children have done that and have done well. And all our children knew from the start that college is on their own. There is nothing we can do to help them. Filling out the FAFSA is a waste of energy as they won't qualify to get anything anyway. This is life. You want a better one, there are things you have to step up and do for yourself. Yes, we feel bad we can't help out any of our kids. NO, it's not just because we spent so much to try to save Katies life.
I do feel, and have told her this, that hopefully her and I will get to a better place when we don't live under the same roof. As someone else pointed out, some personalities just clash. Funny I don't have the same problems with any of the other kids, or the kids' friends, etc. They think we are great and fun parents.
Anything we have tried to teach her has gone in one ear and out the other. She "right-fights" constantly, and knows it all about everything. I'm very tired, the whole family is tired (even the ones that don't live here), even the dog is tired. He can tell when she's in her moods and hides in his cage. But I suppose you all will now say I've clouded his mind with terrible thoughts about her and I've even turned him against her.
There is no amount of bullshit you people can spew to make me believe that Cross Creek was a horrible, torture chamber. The people there were caring. There were no strip searches, I don't know where you get your sick info. They didn't have to eat their vomit, etc. Those were stories of the little "cherubs" that tried to manipulate their parents to get them out. We visited it. We talked endlessly with the great therapists there. She still talks about how she misses the place and Garth and Ben. But even they were worn down by her, didn't know what else to do to help her grow and understand that she doesn't know everything and didn't have to argue about every minut detail of every conversation.
You seriously think you can do better, have at it. She's of age and can make her own decisions. Let's see how much money you have to miss before you say anything. Let's see how many times you have to tell her to do something before you lose it. Let's see how many of your personal items and cherished family mementos have to be broken or become missing before you say enough is enough.
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She is a manipulative lying thief, an emotional vampire that is never happy with anything that is given to her. Yes, I have "checked out" of this relationship but only to save my sanity and to have any sort of relationship with the rest of the family. I have not turned her brothers against her. I didn't need to as she has done that well enough on her own.
[/color]
Thanks,guest, for reposting that and highlighting it in red, I was looking for this and missed it.
Prior to this it wasn’t clear what role Katie played in all the family problems. But it is clear from this post that Katie even managed to abuse her own brothers and push them away further. At this point it was probably the best thing for the step mother to step out of the picture as best she could and let the father handle the matter. But all those days where the step mother and brothers had to stay in their rooms to avoid the hostility just wasn’t healthy for any of them. It was clear that placement outside of the home was the only answer at this point.
If a licesnsed psychotherpist heard Diane Carter, child abuser, relate that information about her 15 year old daughter, she'd be duty bound to notify the authorites that a child was endagered. At the very least, she would recognize that this woman was an abuser. When a program official hears it, they agree that yes, a1 5 year old child is indeed an "emotinal vampire" whose parent should "check out" of the relationship. They would also suggest that they be paid 1,000s of dollars a month to relieve the parent of the bad child and punish the child for her badness.
That is the difference between a psychotherapist and a psycho.
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1st Response
I can tell you didn't write this message to me personally, I can only guess you sent it out to a few key players of this site,
As much as you may think this is some kind of parent hate fest it is not, it is an intervention.
I have suggested to her she needs to go to college out of your city, possibly even out of state. However the fact that you have spent a magnanimous amount of money on CCM, I can see how giving her a college education would be the last thing you would be willing to do. It sucks that she will have to suffer for that mistake as she already has bore the brunt of that ill fated decision, but I suggest you at least support her in getting her own student loans.
If you are seriously unwilling to give her the love and support she needs at this point, and insist on continuing to blame her and make her life miserable, then by all means, send her here. I live in San Diego, CA right next to SDSU. Have her apply for college and look into student housing, I will be willing to take responsibility for mentoring her through these integral steps in her maturation. I can't promise you I will be able to financially support her, learning to provide for herself is something her parents should have taught her by now, but I am more than capable of giving her the emotional support and positive example she needs to learn what it means to be an adult. I just think its sad that once again you are so unwilling to set aside your hateful, judgmental and vile attitude to simply be a good mother to Katie, is it really any wonder why she has these epic melt-downs?????
-Chelsea
Well to start off, you are wrong. You are the only person I sent it to. I knew you'd throw it up here to keep the flames going.
Intervention my ass. All you people are doing is leading her down more destructive paths, giving her false hope as you don't actually know her, don't know truths, only believe what you want to believe. Give me a fucking break.
College: Yes, we have also told her she needs to at least go to a college that has dorms on campus, either in state of out. Both of our older children have done that and have done well. And all our children knew from the start that college is on their own. There is nothing we can do to help them. Filling out the FAFSA is a waste of energy as they won't qualify to get anything anyway. This is life. You want a better one, there are things you have to step up and do for yourself. Yes, we feel bad we can't help out any of our kids. NO, it's not just because we spent so much to try to save Katies life.
I do feel, and have told her this, that hopefully her and I will get to a better place when we don't live under the same roof. As someone else pointed out, some personalities just clash. Funny I don't have the same problems with any of the other kids, or the kids' friends, etc. They think we are great and fun parents.
Anything we have tried to teach her has gone in one ear and out the other. She "right-fights" constantly, and knows it all about everything. I'm very tired, the whole family is tired (even the ones that don't live here), even the dog is tired. He can tell when she's in her moods and hides in his cage. But I suppose you all will now say I've clouded his mind with terrible thoughts about her and I've even turned him against her.
There is no amount of bullshit you people can spew to make me believe that Cross Creek was a horrible, torture chamber. The people there were caring. There were no strip searches, I don't know where you get your sick info. They didn't have to eat their vomit, etc. Those were stories of the little "cherubs" that tried to manipulate their parents to get them out. We visited it. We talked endlessly with the great therapists there. She still talks about how she misses the place and Garth and Ben. But even they were worn down by her, didn't know what else to do to help her grow and understand that she doesn't know everything and didn't have to argue about every minut detail of every conversation.
You seriously think you can do better, have at it. She's of age and can make her own decisions. Let's see how much money you have to miss before you say anything. Let's see how many times you have to tell her to do something before you lose it. Let's see how many of your personal items and cherished family mementos have to be broken or become missing before you say enough is enough.
QUOTED FOR THE INSANITY
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There is no amount of bullshit you people can spew to make me believe that Cross Creek was a horrible, torture chamber. The people there were caring. There were no strip searches, I don't know where you get your sick info. They didn't have to eat their vomit, etc. Those were stories of the little "cherubs" that tried to manipulate their parents to get them out. We visited it. We talked endlessly with the great therapists there. She still talks about how she misses the place and Garth and Ben. But even they were worn down by her, didn't know what else to do to help her grow and understand that she doesn't know everything and didn't have to argue about every minut detail of every conversation.
You seriously think you can do better, have at it. She's of age and can make her own decisions. Let's see how much money you have to miss before you say anything. Let's see how many times you have to tell her to do something before you lose it. Let's see how many of your personal items and cherished family mementos have to be broken or become missing before you say enough is enough.
Parents who have had kids in Cross Creek know that it is a great place. The hostile posters here are trying to target readers that have never heard of it to keep them from sending their kids there. Why? Mainly because the programs they went to didn’t work for them or they didn’t apply themselves and are looking for someone to blame for it or make sense of it all. Trashing families and staff and schools is akin to cutting. It deflects the attention away from the real issues. The folk lore stories of eating vomit, being sat on for days by 300 lb men until you suffocate, strip searched and raped are all put up there to shock people into not getting help for their kids, so their kids can drift down the wrong path like they did. Misery likes company.
I haven’t seen one poster who has your families best interest at heart. They are just hoping Katie will say she was abused at Cross Creek so it keeps their dreams alive that their effort isn’t in vane. If they can promote enough hatred between yourself and Katie then Katie may embellish her stories in retaliation or maybe for more attention.
Some children just do not respond to therapy or behaviour modification very well and need to move towards medication for a solution. Femanon never had any kids and has only baby sat other peoples children. No offense to Femanon but she has no idea what parental responsibility is or how different each child can be along with their individual challenges.
There are many readers here who don’t post and understand what you have gone thru, Diane, and going thru. We wish you the best and the best for your whole family.
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There is no amount of bullshit you people can spew to make me believe that Cross Creek was a horrible, torture chamber. The people there were caring. There were no strip searches, I don't know where you get your sick info. They didn't have to eat their vomit, etc. Those were stories of the little "cherubs" that tried to manipulate their parents to get them out. We visited it. We talked endlessly with the great therapists there. She still talks about how she misses the place and Garth and Ben. But even they were worn down by her, didn't know what else to do to help her grow and understand that she doesn't know everything and didn't have to argue about every minut detail of every conversation.
You seriously think you can do better, have at it. She's of age and can make her own decisions. Let's see how much money you have to miss before you say anything. Let's see how many times you have to tell her to do something before you lose it. Let's see how many of your personal items and cherished family mementos have to be broken or become missing before you say enough is enough.
Parents who have had kids in Cross Creek know that it is a great place. The hostile posters here are trying to target readers that have never heard of it to keep them from sending their kids there. .
Actually, the hostile posters are looking to put WWASP officials and sociopathic "parents" like yourself in prison for the next 20 years. Already 2 known WWASP parents have been sucessfully charged with abuse for incarcerating their kids at these hell holes. Hopefully, this Diane creature will be next
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Actually, the hostile posters are looking to put WWASP officials and sociopathic "parents" like yourself in prison for the next 20 years. Already 2 known WWASP parents have been sucessfully charged with abuse for incarcerating their kids at these hell holes.
Great info, thanks
We came up with the same figures but you left out that without Cross Creek there would have been about 75 parents who would be in jail today for murder lol. So it seems the program has saved kids lives as well as parents being incarcerated. 75 vs 2 is a pretty good trade off.
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http://www.moveovertooakpointe.com/home2.htm[/url]"]
Well to start off, you are wrong. You are the only person I sent it to. I knew you'd throw it up here to keep the flames going.
Intervention my ass. All you people are doing is leading her down more destructive paths, giving her false hope as you don't actually know her, don't know truths, only believe what you want to believe. Give me a fucking break.
College: Yes, we have also told her she needs to at least go to a college that has dorms on campus, either in state of out. Both of our older children have done that and have done well. And all our children knew from the start that college is on their own. There is nothing we can do to help them. Filling out the FAFSA is a waste of energy as they won't qualify to get anything anyway. This is life. You want a better one, there are things you have to step up and do for yourself. Yes, we feel bad we can't help out any of our kids. NO, it's not just because we spent so much to try to save Katies life.
I do feel, and have told her this, that hopefully her and I will get to a better place when we don't live under the same roof. As someone else pointed out, some personalities just clash. Funny I don't have the same problems with any of the other kids, or the kids' friends, etc. They think we are great and fun parents.
Anything we have tried to teach her has gone in one ear and out the other. She "right-fights" constantly, and knows it all about everything. I'm very tired, the whole family is tired (even the ones that don't live here), even the dog is tired. He can tell when she's in her moods and hides in his cage. But I suppose you all will now say I've clouded his mind with terrible thoughts about her and I've even turned him against her.
There is no amount of bullshit you people can spew to make me believe that Cross Creek was a horrible, torture chamber. The people there were caring. There were no strip searches, I don't know where you get your sick info. They didn't have to eat their vomit, etc. Those were stories of the little "cherubs" that tried to manipulate their parents to get them out. We visited it. We talked endlessly with the great therapists there. She still talks about how she misses the place and Garth and Ben. But even they were worn down by her, didn't know what else to do to help her grow and understand that she doesn't know everything and didn't have to argue about every minut detail of every conversation.
You seriously think you can do better, have at it. She's of age and can make her own decisions. Let's see how much money you have to miss before you say anything. Let's see how many times you have to tell her to do something before you lose it. Let's see how many of your personal items and cherished family mementos have to be broken or become missing before you say enough is enough.
No, you are right. Obviously, Katie is not even good enough for the dog... Wow, you are one distubed sociopath, Diane,
::unhappy:: ::unhappy::
Look into this assoc, Kaite.
I'm sending them Diane Carter's info
http://www.childabuse.org/ (http://www.childabuse.org/)
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Actually, the hostile posters are looking to put WWASP officials and sociopathic "parents" like yourself in prison for the next 20 years. Already 2 known WWASP parents have been sucessfully charged with abuse for incarcerating their kids at these hell holes.
Great info, thanks
We came up with the same figures but you left out that without Cross Creek there would have been about 75 parents who would be in jail today for murder lol. So it seems the program has saved kids lives as well as parents being incarcerated. 75 vs 2 is a pretty good trade off.
lol. The line that the dog would go into its cage and close the door is a classic.
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Actually, the hostile posters are looking to put WWASP officials and sociopathic "parents" like yourself in prison for the next 20 years. Already 2 known WWASP parents have been sucessfully charged with abuse for incarcerating their kids at these hell holes.
Great info, thanks
We came up with the same figures but you left out that without Cross Creek there would have been about 75 parents who would be in jail today for murder lol. So it seems the program has saved kids lives as well as parents being incarcerated. 75 vs 2 is a pretty good trade off.
lol. The line that the dog would go into its cage and close the door is a classic.
The SPCA (http://http://www.spca.com/) has opened up a file on this household since Katie has returned home.
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even the dog is tired. He can tell when she's in her moods and hides in his cage. But I suppose you all will now say I've clouded his mind with terrible thoughts about her and I've even turned him against her.
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Great find, guest!
Thats funny, you can fool people but you cant fool a dog, he/she knows when trouble comes knocking. Anyone who owns a dog knows this.
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This must seriously be the era of industry trolls.
WOW. I'm honestly amazed how much of a hypocrite you can be Dianne, You continue to go on and on about how "bad" your step daughter is, and insist that she takes no accountability and argues EVERYTHING to death, yet here you are exerting the same behavior that has been creating (now escalating) this situation, taking no responsibility for your actions (now or in the past) and arguing your moot point to death. Apparently the reason you and Katie don't get along is because you exert very similar behavior patterns.
As I have said before, We all recognize that Katie has acted out, she openly admits this, but this is not a question of what, it is a question of why. When a doctor medically treats a patient, lets say someone who is overweight and has diabetes, they do not condemn them for the eating that got them to that point, they simply put them on a diet plan they can follow for the future, they also usually recommend therapy to pin point and address the root issue that drives them to eat, so the patient can deal with it and have a better chance of sticking to the new diet and embracing it as a life style.
I can't speak for everyone on Fornits, but I don't think it would be very healthy for us to read her stories and condemn her for her actions, we aren't interested in furthering the kind of abuse she gets at home, I think most of us agree that this forum should be a haven for her where she doesn't have to be comforted with constant blame. I think she has had far too much of it to date and OBVIOUSLY that hasn't worked out so isn't it possible that taking a different approach could be helpful here? You are totally unable to see this situation from any other angle but your own, and sadly unable to hold your hate and blame down even in the slightest to give Katie a chance to give her side of the story and figure out on her own how to heal and grow from her experiences.
I know at Fornits we usually welcome "the other side" to engage in debate, but I honestly believe your presence on this site is simply to undermine the progress that Katie is making in dealing with this. Don't bother telling "your side of the story" again, its old, we've heard it, we already read your blog and we know what issues you have with your step daughter. Katie has come here to tell her side, and we are willing to support her in doing so and offer our advice to help her overcome the pain, put her past into perspective and grow from her experiences. However it seems your sole intention is to throw a wrench in her process, and see to it that no one supports or believes in her. Why is that Dianne? Is this just your nature or are you afraid she may just become independent and you wont have your punching bag/ scape goat around anymore to fuel your abusive tendencies? If I were her, I would walk into your bedroom right now and tell you to "Stay the fuck off Fornits, stay out of my life and to go fuck yourself." I hope you realize that you induce that kind of anger not only in Katie, but even to strangers, your intentions to continue to be a deconstructive force in Katie's life are truly infuriating!
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http://www.moveovertooakpointe.com/home2.htm[/url]"]
I'm very tired, the whole family is tired (even the ones that don't live here), even the dog is tired. He can tell when she's in her moods and hides in his cage. But I suppose you all will now say I've clouded his mind with terrible thoughts about her and I've even turned him against her.
lol. The line that the dog would go into its cage and close the door is a classic.
The SPCA (http://http://www.spca.com/) has opened up a file on this household since Katie has returned home.
even the dog is tired. He can tell when she's in her moods and hides in his cage. But I suppose you all will now say I've clouded his mind with terrible thoughts about her and I've even turned him against her.
[/color]
Great find, guest!
Thats funny, you can fool people but you cant fool a dog, he/she knows when trouble comes knocking. Anyone who owns a dog knows this.
^^^Inside the twisted minds of the abusive parents of WWASP detainees; what a WWASP “parental support group” is like (serves to normalize cruelty and child abuse), and how the imprisoned children are spoken to in WWASP cross creek programs' “therapy sessions” (until the children beleive they are indeed as worthless as they are told they are)
Yes, people really are this depraved. And they turn to WWASP to abuse their kids in ways they would be arrested for if they tried themselves because they want terrible things done to their children. :heartbreak: :rose:
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Well, I do have the family's best interest at heart. Its not like I am going to work myself all up over it - I'm tired too. But I do wish things were better for all concerned. This situation is incredibly sad.
Katies folks: You could not have made a worse mistake with regard to Katie's mental health than sending her into one of these private, for prophet, Synanon based programs. I can't believe you made the slightest effort to learn the first thing about BPD (or these programs) before you did so. It doesn't seem like you've yet bothered to learn about this condition and how best to help those suffering with it.
Maybe this isn't entirely your fault. The therapeutic community still often dispenses outdated ideas and false information about this disorder. Maybe you were given terrible advice from those you thought were professionals and so were mis-led. (I'm trying to be generous here) But surely you can now see her stay at Cross Creek was not appropriate therapy. Is it not yet apparent? Could it be you've been blinded to the truth of the situation by the powerful programing you yourself endured?
I had suggested some reading for you in another thread. I will now add:
"I Hate You, Don't Leave me"
and:
http://www.mhsanctuary.com/borderline/ (http://www.mhsanctuary.com/borderline/)
Note to Katie: If you think reading about self injury may cause you a relapse then use great caution; but all in all I believe learning about your disorder will be helpful. Once you understand why you feel such raging emotions, and such emptiness; why you sometimes totally love and then absolutely hate the same person with in the same hour; why you feel a need to keep emotional storms raging, you can work on guarding against letting all this overwhelm you, and this will lead to less frequent and serious consequences. I think it will work this way for you, b/c you are an intelligent girl who will be able to understand the issues and see how your life has been impacted, and understand it is up to you to make the changes needed to live a more balanced and satisfying life.
Again to Katie's folks: There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that your inflecting the program on your BPD daughter has made her problems much worse. It is as if the program is diabolically designed to ensnare BPD teens and then destroy them; while hardening their parents hearts and training them to treat their ill child with a bone chillingly cold disregard.
To you all: Yes, you'll all be better off when Katie has her own place. But you can not expect her to be self sufficient - even at 28, never mind 18. BPD (and the other disorders that are inevitably co-existent, such as OCD) are recognized disabilities. They are serious mental illnesses. Help her apply for disability benefits with SSA. This will be a long frustrating process but you will be successful if you persist, and this will open a lot of doors to help with such things as housing and educational financing.
Also - do not let anyone tell you BPD can not be cured. It can. It takes a lot of effort on the part of the BPD - and I think a good deal of intelligence - but it can be understood and overcome to such an extent that they are no longer noticeably symptomatic - which is what anyone should call a cure. Look into DBT.
http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/ (http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/)
http://www.borderlinepersonality.ca/dbttreatBPD.htm (http://www.borderlinepersonality.ca/dbttreatBPD.htm)
Folks: Read up on Lifespring / Resource Realizations (1988, David Gilcrease from Lifespring) .
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?4,31129,68053 (http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?4,31129,68053)
http://www.rickross.com/groups/lifespring.html (http://www.rickross.com/groups/lifespring.html)
http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_grp/grp_lifespring.asp (http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_grp/grp_lifespring.asp)
http://isaccorp.org/wwasps/resource-rea ... 10.02.html (http://isaccorp.org/wwasps/resource-realizations.04.10.02.html)
http://www.factnet.org/cults/LifeSpring/?FACTNet (http://www.factnet.org/cults/LifeSpring/?FACTNet)
And for all your sakes - stop cutting each other to ribbons on the World Wide Web. Don't you know it never goes away? Can't you discuss the issues without being so personally vicious? Can't you talk about the issues and not each other?
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Well, I do have the family's best interest at heart. Its not like I am going to work myself all up over it - I'm tired too. But I do wish things were better for all concerned. This situation is incredibly sad.
Katies folks: You could not have made a worse mistake with regard to Katie's mental health than sending her into one of these private, for prophet, Synanon based programs. I can't believe you made the slightest effort to learn the first thing about BPD (or these programs) before you did so. It doesn't seem like you've yet bothered to learn about this condition and how best to help those suffering with it.
Maybe this isn't entirely your fault. The therapeutic community still often dispenses outdated ideas and false information about this disorder. Maybe you were given terrible advice from those you thought were professionals and so were mis-led. (I'm trying to be generous here) But surely you can now see her stay at Cross Creek was not appropriate therapy. Is it not yet apparent? Could it be you've been blinded to the truth of the situation by the powerful programing you yourself endured?
I had suggested some reading for you in another thread. I will now add:
"I Hate You, Don't Leave me"
and:
http://www.mhsanctuary.com/borderline/ (http://www.mhsanctuary.com/borderline/)
Note to Katie: If you think reading about self injury may cause you a relapse then use great caution; but all in all I believe learning about your disorder will be helpful. Once you understand why you feel such raging emotions, and such emptiness; why you sometimes totally love and then absolutely hate the same person with in the same hour; why you feel a need to keep emotional storms raging, you can work on guarding against letting all this overwhelm you, and this will lead to less frequent and serious consequences. I think it will work this way for you, b/c you are an intelligent girl who will be able to understand the issues and see how your life has been impacted, and understand it is up to you to make the changes needed to live a more balanced and satisfying life.
Again to Katie's folks: There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that your inflecting the program on your BPD daughter has made her problems much worse. It is as if the program is diabolically designed to ensnare BPD teens and then destroy them; while hardening their parents hearts and training them to treat their ill child with a bone chillingly cold disregard.
To you all: Yes, you'll all be better off when Katie has her own place. But you can not expect her to be self sufficient - even at 28, never mind 18. BPD (and the other disorders that are inevitably co-existent, such as OCD) are recognized disabilities. They are serious mental illnesses. Help her apply for disability benefits with SSA. This will be a long frustrating process but you will be successful if you persist, and this will open a lot of doors to help with such things as housing and educational financing.
Also - do not let anyone tell you BPD can not be cured. It can. It takes a lot of effort on the part of the BPD - and I think a good deal of intelligence - but it can be understood and overcome to such an extent that they are no longer noticeably symptomatic - which is what anyone should call a cure. Look into DBT.
http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/ (http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/)
http://www.borderlinepersonality.ca/dbttreatBPD.htm (http://www.borderlinepersonality.ca/dbttreatBPD.htm)
Folks: Read up on Lifespring / Resource Realizations (1988, David Gilcrease from Lifespring) .
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?4,31129,68053 (http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?4,31129,68053)
http://www.rickross.com/groups/lifespring.html (http://www.rickross.com/groups/lifespring.html)
http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_grp/grp_lifespring.asp (http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_grp/grp_lifespring.asp)
http://isaccorp.org/wwasps/resource-rea ... 10.02.html (http://isaccorp.org/wwasps/resource-realizations.04.10.02.html)
http://www.factnet.org/cults/LifeSpring/?FACTNet (http://www.factnet.org/cults/LifeSpring/?FACTNet)
And for all your sakes - stop cutting each other to ribbons on the World Wide Web. Don't you know it never goes away? Can't you discuss the issues without being so personally vicious? Can't you talk about the issues and not each other?
buzz, how many seminars and parental support groups did you attend? can you answer?
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http://www.moveovertooakpointe.com/home2.htm[/url]"]
I'm very tired, the whole family is tired (even the ones that don't live here), even the dog is tired. He can tell when she's in her moods and hides in his cage. But I suppose you all will now say I've clouded his mind with terrible thoughts about her and I've even turned him against her.
lol. The line that the dog would go into its cage and close the door is a classic.
The SPCA (http://http://www.spca.com/) has opened up a file on this household since Katie has returned home.
even the dog is tired. He can tell when she's in her moods and hides in his cage. But I suppose you all will now say I've clouded his mind with terrible thoughts about her and I've even turned him against her.
[/color]
Great find, guest!
Thats funny, you can fool people but you cant fool a dog, he/she knows when trouble comes knocking. Anyone who owns a dog knows this.
^^^Inside the twisted minds of the abusive parents of WWASP detainees; what a WWASP “parental support group” is like (serves to normalize cruelty and child abuse), and how the imprisoned children are spoken to in WWASP cross creek programs' “therapy sessions” (until the children beleive they are indeed as worthless as they are told they are)
Yes, people really are this depraved. And they turn to WWASP to abuse their kids in ways they would be arrested for if they tried themselves because they want terrible things done to their children. :heartbreak: :rose:
Diane and Micheal Carter genuinely shock me. I have not seen child abuse up close and in person in a while. You sort of forget how ugly it is....
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I can't speak for everyone on Fornits, but I don't think it would be very healthy for us to read her stories and condemn her for her actions, we aren't interested in furthering the kind of abuse she gets at home,
No, you cannot speak for everyone. Its not healthy to condemn anyone! How do you know who is doing the abusing?
I think most of us agree that this forum should be a haven for her where she doesn't have to be comforted with constant blame. I think she has had far too much of it to date and OBVIOUSLY that hasn't worked out so isn't it possible that taking a different approach could be helpful here?
If you have read enough here you would know this is the last place you would want to call a safe haven for anyone. Diane was being attacked even before she posted here, femanon.
You are totally unable to see this situation from any other angle but your own, and sadly unable to hold your hate and blame down even in the slightest to give Katie a chance to give her side of the story and figure out on her own how to heal and grow from her experiences.
You suffer from the same problem. You have very little information and assume you can place the blame on people.
I know at Fornits we usually welcome "the other side" to engage in debate, but I honestly believe your presence on this site is simply to undermine the progress that Katie is making in dealing with this. Don't bother telling "your side of the story" again, its old, we've heard it, we already read your blog and we know what issues you have with your step daughter.
So the new rules of fornits is you can only tell your story once and then you are cut off. Who is going to keep track of you? Are you going to keep the same rules for yourself or does that only apply to those who you disagree with?
Katie has come here to tell her side, and we are willing to support her in doing so and offer our advice to help her overcome the pain, put her past into perspective and grow from her experiences.
Who is this “we”?
However it seems your sole intention is to throw a wrench in her process, and see to it that no one supports or believes in her. Why is that Dianne?
And yours? Are you throwing a wrench in Dianes side of the story?
Is this just your nature or are you afraid she may just become independent and you wont have your punching bag/ scape goat around anymore to fuel your abusive tendencies?
Not likely, I think she voted for her to leave 3 years ago!
If I were her, I would walk into your bedroom right now and tell you to "Stay the fuck off Fornits, stay out of my life and to go fuck yourself."
And if she did, Diane should say “Who is paying the rent here? The electricity to power the lap top? Who is paying for the food you put in your mouth?” Do you feel entitled? Good your entitled to get the fuck out of my house!!!! Get a job, go to school and kick the dog on the way out if you need to, but go!!”
I hope you realize that you induce that kind of anger not only in Katie, but even to strangers, your intentions to continue to be a deconstructive force in Katie's life are truly infuriating!
Thank you for commenting, come back when you have a teenager of your own and we can talk!
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This is a good reminder that program parents are not ignorant victims of this industry, they are the cause and source of it.
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I can't speak for everyone on Fornits, but I don't think it would be very healthy for us to read her stories and condemn her for her actions, we aren't interested in furthering the kind of abuse she gets at home,
No, you cannot speak for everyone. Its not healthy to condemn anyone! How do you know who is doing the abusing?
I think most of us agree that this forum should be a haven for her where she doesn't have to be comforted with constant blame. I think she has had far too much of it to date and OBVIOUSLY that hasn't worked out so isn't it possible that taking a different approach could be helpful here?
If you have read enough here you would know this is the last place you would want to call a safe haven for anyone. Diane was being attacked even before she posted here, femanon.
You are totally unable to see this situation from any other angle but your own, and sadly unable to hold your hate and blame down even in the slightest to give Katie a chance to give her side of the story and figure out on her own how to heal and grow from her experiences.
You suffer from the same problem. You have very little information and assume you can place the blame on people.
I know at Fornits we usually welcome "the other side" to engage in debate, but I honestly believe your presence on this site is simply to undermine the progress that Katie is making in dealing with this. Don't bother telling "your side of the story" again, its old, we've heard it, we already read your blog and we know what issues you have with your step daughter.
So the new rules of fornits is you can only tell your story once and then you are cut off. Who is going to keep track of you? Are you going to keep the same rules for yourself or does that only apply to those who you disagree with?
Katie has come here to tell her side, and we are willing to support her in doing so and offer our advice to help her overcome the pain, put her past into perspective and grow from her experiences.
Who is this “we”?
However it seems your sole intention is to throw a wrench in her process, and see to it that no one supports or believes in her. Why is that Dianne?
And yours? Are you throwing a wrench in Dianes side of the story?
Is this just your nature or are you afraid she may just become independent and you wont have your punching bag/ scape goat around anymore to fuel your abusive tendencies?
Not likely, I think she voted for her to leave 3 years ago!
If I were her, I would walk into your bedroom right now and tell you to "Stay the fuck off Fornits, stay out of my life and to go fuck yourself."
And if she did, Diane should say “Who is paying the rent here? The electricity to power the lap top? Who is paying for the food you put in your mouth?” Do you feel entitled? Good your entitled to get the fuck out of my house!!!! Get a job, go to school and kick the dog on the way out if you need to, but go!!”
I hope you realize that you induce that kind of anger not only in Katie, but even to strangers, your intentions to continue to be a deconstructive force in Katie's life are truly infuriating!
Thank you for commenting, come back when you have a teenager of your own and we can talk!
:blabla: :guesswho: ::deadhorse:: ::)
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I can't speak for everyone on Fornits, but I don't think it would be very healthy for us to read her stories and condemn her for her actions, we aren't interested in furthering the kind of abuse she gets at home,
No, you cannot speak for everyone. Its not healthy to condemn anyone! How do you know who is doing the abusing?
I think most of us agree that this forum should be a haven for her where she doesn't have to be comforted with constant blame. I think she has had far too much of it to date and OBVIOUSLY that hasn't worked out so isn't it possible that taking a different approach could be helpful here?
If you have read enough here you would know this is the last place you would want to call a safe haven for anyone. Diane was being attacked even before she posted here, femanon.
You are totally unable to see this situation from any other angle but your own, and sadly unable to hold your hate and blame down even in the slightest to give Katie a chance to give her side of the story and figure out on her own how to heal and grow from her experiences.
You suffer from the same problem. You have very little information and assume you can place the blame on people.
I know at Fornits we usually welcome "the other side" to engage in debate, but I honestly believe your presence on this site is simply to undermine the progress that Katie is making in dealing with this. Don't bother telling "your side of the story" again, its old, we've heard it, we already read your blog and we know what issues you have with your step daughter.
So the new rules of fornits is you can only tell your story once and then you are cut off. Who is going to keep track of you? Are you going to keep the same rules for yourself or does that only apply to those who you disagree with?
Katie has come here to tell her side, and we are willing to support her in doing so and offer our advice to help her overcome the pain, put her past into perspective and grow from her experiences.
Who is this “we”?
However it seems your sole intention is to throw a wrench in her process, and see to it that no one supports or believes in her. Why is that Dianne?
And yours? Are you throwing a wrench in Dianes side of the story?
Is this just your nature or are you afraid she may just become independent and you wont have your punching bag/ scape goat around anymore to fuel your abusive tendencies?
Not likely, I think she voted for her to leave 3 years ago!
If I were her, I would walk into your bedroom right now and tell you to "Stay the fuck off Fornits, stay out of my life and to go fuck yourself."
And if she did, Diane should say “Who is paying the rent here? The electricity to power the lap top? Who is paying for the food you put in your mouth?” Do you feel entitled? Good your entitled to get the fuck out of my house!!!! Get a job, go to school and kick the dog on the way out if you need to, but go!!”
I hope you realize that you induce that kind of anger not only in Katie, but even to strangers, your intentions to continue to be a deconstructive force in Katie's life are truly infuriating!
Thank you for commenting, come back when you have a teenager of your own and we can talk!
Great Post! thank you for commenting. There are so few people who really see what is going on here. Thanks for cutting thru the bullshit here.
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Thanks for that post, Diane and Michael must think this place is nuts with all the posts and flaming lol.... welcome to fornits!!! Even though we know Katie made your lives a living hell and tried to drive a wedge into the family we have to take Katies side. Why because we did the same thing!! We are the same animal. We know Katie was abusive to everyone, but we just wont admit it. Because if we did then we would have to admit that maybe we were responsible for the events that lead us to be placed into a program and in turn lead us to the lives we have today.
So dont take it personally we are just acting on a defence mechanism and hoping that katie joins our little club of hatred towards all creatures.
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Thanks for that post, Diane and Michael must think this place is nuts with all the posts and flaming lol.... welcome to fornits!!! Even though we know Katie made your lives a living hell and tried to drive a wedge into the family we have to take Katies side. Why because we did the same thing!! We are the same animal. We know Katie was abusive to everyone, but we just wont admit it. Because if we did then we would have to admit that maybe we were responsible for the events that lead us to be placed into a program and in turn lead us to the lives we have today.
So dont take it personally we are just acting on a defence mechanism and hoping that katie joins our little club of hatred towards all creatures.
Whooter's got it bad.
:guesswho:
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I haven’t seen one poster who has your families best interest at heart. They are just hoping Katie will say she was abused at Cross Creek so it keeps their dreams alive that their effort isn’t in vane. If they can promote enough hatred between yourself and Katie then Katie may embellish her stories in retaliation or maybe for more attention.
Some children just do not respond to therapy or behaviour modification very well and need to move towards medication for a solution. Femanon never had any kids and has only baby sat other peoples children. No offense to Femanon but she has no idea what parental responsibility is or how different each child can be along with their individual challenges.
Again, obviously you don't know anything about me or my profession. I don't just babysit people's kids, I raise them often when the parents are in the house. I am usually called in when the child starts to develop behavior problems and often when I am called into a home with a misbehaving 7 year old I find that there is in fact a messed up family dynamic that I do my best to mediate through and assist in all parties learning how to co-exist. Often I find that the parenting style is "not a match" with the child's personality. That would explain how one child would take kindly to negative reinforcement and another child would be psychologically damaged by it. It is actually very common for their to be a black sheep in the family that gets picked on, and as unintentional as it is, it starts very early with the parents and their lack of patience with special needs kids. At that point is where I am called in, I take over as the parent of the "black sheep" child and with a softer more loving and logical approach to parenting I have seen theses kids go from angry and unruly to loving and more than willing to behave. The secret is giving the child respect, using logical reasoning, and being patient when they don't automatically "get it". I must have explained the same lessons over and over and reminded this one child I worked with, a million times but soon enough he "got it" and he started reminding himself how to act in similar situations. But what I do isn't important, this is about Katie, and for the most part I have been holding back my advice until she is done writing her story... then I think we will be able to assist in the healing.
Furthermore, I have not focused on Cross Creek, I think at this point it is evident that she actually preferred Cross Creek over living at home with her step mother, just as she preferred the mental hospital. I may not understand that but it speaks for itself. I have personally experienced a program that was extremely harsh, I was one of those who they tried to force to eat my own vomit, and was physically tortured on several occasions on top of the systematic abuse that was the program system itself. I do not perpetrate that the same incidents have happened to every kid in every program but I do think that systematic abuse does exist, be it in varying degrees, but enough to assert that their are similar problems in all WWASP programs and other programs that run the "tough love" program. From what I understand Katie has not been out of CCM very long, it is common for kids to not realize that what was done to them was abuse, because they are still under the impression that it was treatment. If Katie is open to revisit what happened to her in the program and share that with us we will surely point out (in our opinions) what we consider to be abusive but we do not expect her to "admit" anything that she doesn't personally believe.
I don't expect to change Michael and Dianne's minds, I also don't expect for Katie to adopt our opinions. I think they all need to make up their own minds... but I think it takes someone coming in and calling bullshit on EVERYONES behavior in order for people to start questioning their habits and attempt to stop the cycle. You all don't know but several other members of this site and I have started talking to Katie via an instant message system and we have talked to her about how to avoid the fights and "melt downs" with her parents. So we are not giving Katie a free pass to act out here, we are simply addressing the issues that the parents refuse to acknowledge. So much time has been spent on blaming Katie they have refused to take any responsibility for their role in this mess. Instead of running with the original blame game they portrayed in their blog we have decided to represent the "other side" of the argument that HASN'T been advocated before, and that's Katie's side.
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Thanks for that post, Diane and Michael must think this place is nuts with all the posts and flaming lol.... welcome to fornits!!! Even though we know Katie made your lives a living hell and tried to drive a wedge into the family we have to take Katies side. Why because we did the same thing!! We are the same animal. We know Katie was abusive to everyone, but we just wont admit it. Because if we did then we would have to admit that maybe we were responsible for the events that lead us to be placed into a program and in turn lead us to the lives we have today.
So dont take it personally we are just acting on a defence mechanism and hoping that katie joins our little club of hatred towards all creatures.
Wow...Micheal and Diane Carter have really instigated cult disiples to post in earnest. Or perhaps they are all Diane and Micheal and thewho? Maybe these are members of WWASPs "parent support" group, in which "support: means particpating in, and encouraging the pscyhologicall torment of children.
Just so you guys know, children don't abuse their parents, they just don’t have the power necessary to do that. That term simply does not apply. Your self perception as “victims” of your children which WWASP and various programs inculcate sucessfully in you, is quite disturbing.
This self-perception is apparently so intense that believers have amassed here to psychologically abuse this 18 year old, who has been institutionalized for 3 years, ostensibly because of her grossly disabling mental illness, as a way of what? "Defending themselves"? To say nothing else, that's the behavior of some seriously emotionally and psychologically stunted "adults."
Do you people really think its acceptable for you middle aged parents to act toward an adolescent in this way? I don't even mean "unacceptable" in the moral sence, i mean do you understand how our social customs have developed so there is a taboo around that sort of behavior? I think you are so disconected from reality that you don't understand that.
Please keep posting anonymously, and otherwise, Diane and Michael and WWASP supporters; you some records for public displays of malevolence and psychological disturbance, and each of your posts documents it.
All the better for the young lady's case should she press foward with it.
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If Katie is open to revisit what happened to her in the program and share that with us we will surely point out (in our opinions) what we consider to be abusive but we do not expect her to "admit" anything that she doesn't personally believe.
This is exactly right. “You could point out to her” what you consider to be abusive. What if someone that was pro-program were to talk to her about what happened to her “could they point out to her” what they consider to be what helped her over the hump?
I think it takes someone coming in and calling bullshit on EVERYONES behavior in order for people to start questioning their habits and attempt to stop the cycle.
I am hoping that you are talking about Katie TOO. There are several people living in that household who get along with each other very well. I agree that someone should look at the behaviour of everyone to see what is appropriate. I just find it amazing that you have never questioned what Katie has done.... what part she has played in all of this. Why just focus on Diane and Michael? You are not being very sincere Femanon.
You all don't know but several other members of this site and I have started talking to Katie via an instant message system and we have talked to her about how to avoid the fights and "melt downs" with her parents. So we are not giving Katie a free pass to act out here, we are simply addressing the issues that the parents refuse to acknowledge. So much time has been spent on blaming Katie they have refused to take any responsibility for their role in this mess. Instead of running with the original blame game they portrayed in their blog we have decided to represent the "other side" of the argument that HASN'T been advocated before, and that's Katie's side.
They may be frustrated and telling the truth here. She may deserve the blame.
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Can't even post under your own name anymore, can you cunt? Nice try pretending to be anonymous!
End this farce. Throw her out. And then Femanon or some other Fornits member will be by to pick her up and you can stop pretending to be a substitute mother.
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Can't even post under your own name anymore, can you cunt? Nice try pretending to be anonymous!
End this farce. Throw her out. And then Femanon or some other Fornits member will be by to pick her up and you can stop pretending to be a substitute mother.
I agree, this anon is Diane Carter. Either way, the things this woman has written......Let's just say they are quite revealing
Join this suit, kaite. The fear of it has certainly stirred the wwaspnest, if these posters aren't all the distrubed, child abusing Diane Carter, Ohio.
ttp://www.turleylaw.com/ (http://ttp://www.turleylaw.com/)
Placement in isolation for long periods of time, and at times, including being
locked in small boxes and cages, and locked up in basements, and forced to
assume distorted and painful physical positions for long periods of time;
b. Unsanitary living conditions;
c. Denial of adequate food;
d. Denial of proper medical and dental care and treatment;
e. Denial of an even minimally sufficient education;
f. Exposure to extreme (hot and cold) temperatures for long periods of time;
g. Forced physical exercise beyond their physical capacity;
h. Kicked, beaten, thrown and slammed to the ground;
i. Bound and tied by hands and/or feet;
j. Chained and locked in dog cages;
k. Forced to lie in, or wear, urine and feces as one method of punishment;
l. Forced to clean and scrub toilets and floors with their toothbrush and then use the
toothbrush afterwards;
Forced to sleep on cold concrete floors, boxspring, or plywood used as a bed with
no bedding or linens or with just a tattered and torn sleeping bag;
n. Forced to carry heavy bags of sand around their neck or logs throughout the day
over many days;
o. Forced to eat their own vomit;
p. Sexual abuse, which included forced sexual relations and acts of fondling and
masturbation performed on them;
q. Emotional abuse by subjecting student Plaintiffs to near-total parental and societal
isolation. Personal visits, correspondence, and telephone calls were either
forbidden or discouraged;
r. Because of the near-total isolation from the outside world and lack of education,
many student Plaintiffs were totally unequipped to enter outside society;
s. Forced to work many hours a day, at an age below the applicable minimum age
requirements of the child labor laws of the jurisdictions in which the schools are
located, and without compensation for shoveling manure, house construction,
hauling, landscaping, kitchen work, farm work, and moving bricks;
t. Threatened severe punishment, including death, if they told anyone of their
abuses and poor living conditions;
u. Confiscated and/or kept students’ U.S. mail;
v. Deprived from using the toilet, and as a result, urinated or defecated on
themselves;
w. Verbally abused by lying that their parents knew what was happening to them and
were supportive of it all;
x. Subjected to buddy system where older students were allowed to physically,
mentally, and sexually abuse younger students and manage them as part of a
“cleansing” process;
y. Deprived of sleep;
z. Forced to wear the same, unwashed clothes for weeks at a time;
aa. Denied any religious affiliation, except for the Mormon faith;
Case 2:06-cv-00708-TS-SA Document 88 Filed 12/19/2006 Page 19 of 46
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20061213 Wood - Complaint 2nd Amended DKS.wpd
bb. Forced to eat raw or rotten food;
cc. Poked and prodded with various objects while being strip searched;
dd. Forced to write false confession letters to parents to justify being sent to the
WWASPS school;
Student Plaintiffs repeatedly witnessed other children being kicked, hit, slammed, beaten,
thrown to the ground, and humiliated by teachers, supervisors, and/or staff.
5. Defendants violated student Plaintiffs’ human rights when Defendants used isolation as a
form of punishment.
6. Defendants often conspired with a parent or guardian to kidnap or take away by force the
child from another parent with equal or superior custody.
7. Defendants conspired with parents to implemented an “Exit Plan,” which had the effect
of compelling the student to remain at the schools past the student’s 18th birthday, despite torture and
inhumane conditions.
8. At all time relevant, Defendants did not disclose to the parents the physical, emotional,
mental, and/or sexual abuse to which their children were subjected at their facilities, and conspired, even
to this day, to prevent them from discovering such abuse.
9. In addition to the foregoing facts, Plaintiffs incorporate by reference into this Complaint
each of Plaintiffs’ statement of facts, which statement of facts sets forth the specific circumstance and
occurrences relating to transactions and treatment of Plaintiffs by the Defendants. By agreement,
Plaintiffs’ statement of facts are being provided to defense counsel.
WWASPS, through their schools, owed the minor student Plaintiffs, who were entrusted
to its care, the highest duty of trust and confidence and was required to act in their best interest. The
schools’ actions and inactions, described herein, violated that relationship when they failed to act with
the highest degree of trust and confidence to protect the student Plaintiffs from physical, emotional,
mental, and sexual abuse.
2. As minors, unable to care for or make decisions for themselves, and entrusted in the care
of the schools operated by Defendants, student Plaintiffs were owed a fiduciary duty by each of the
individual entities and by all of the Defendants. By failing to take steps to prevent, detect, and minimize
the harm from the incidents of abuse suffered by student Plaintiffs, the Defendants breached their
fiduciary duty to student Plaintiffs.
1. WWASPS has acted in concert with the other Defendants in a pattern and practice to
fraudulently conceal the extent and nature of the physical, emotional, mental, and sexual abuse
Case 2:06-cv-00708-TS-SA Document 88 Filed 12/19/2006 Page 21 of 46
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20061213 Wood - Complaint 2nd Amended DKS.wpd
occurring at its boarding schools, as well as the harmful effects of that abuse, continuing through the
present day. Defendants have also acted in concert to fraudulently conceal the fact that Defendants
engaged in a pattern and practice of stealing the value of student Plaintiffs’ labor, forcing them to work
several hours per day, for the duration of their attendance at the boarding schools without any
compensation whatsoever, as well as the value to student Plaintiffs of even a minimally sufficient
education.
2. All Defendants herein entered into a civil conspiracy to act in concert, accompanied by a
meeting of the minds regarding concerted action, the purposes of which were to suppress and minimize
public knowledge of the rampant physical, emotional, mental, and sexual abuse of minor children in the
boarding schools by teachers, supervisors, and staff, and to take a uniform position and approach to the
handling of reports of abuse.
3. This ongoing conspiracy and concert of 1. WWASPS has acted in concert with the other Defendants in a pattern and practice to
fraudulently conceal the extent and nature of the physical, emotional, mental, and sexual abuse
Case 2:06-cv-00708-TS-SA Document 88 Filed 12/19/2006 Page 21 of 46
17
20061213 Wood - Complaint 2nd Amended DKS.wpd
occurring at its boarding schools, as well as the harmful effects of that abuse, continuing through the
present day. Defendants have also acted in concert to fraudulently conceal the fact that Defendants
engaged in a pattern and practice of stealing the value of student Plaintiffs’ labor, forcing them to work
several hours per day, for the duration of their attendance at the boarding schools without any
compensation whatsoever, as well as the value to student Plaintiffs of even a minimally sufficient
education.
2. All Defendants herein entered into a civil conspiracy to act in concert, accompanied by a
meeting of the minds regarding concerted action, the purposes of which were to suppress and minimize
public knowledge of the rampant physical, emotional, mental, and sexual abuse of minor children in the
boarding schools by teachers, supervisors, and staff, and to take a uniform position and approach to the
handling of reports of abuse.
3. This ongoing conspiracy and concert of 1. WWASPS has acted in concert with the other Defendants in a pattern and practice to
fraudulently conceal the extent and nature of the physical, emotional, mental, and sexual abuse
Case 2:06-cv-00708-TS-SA Document 88 Filed 12/19/2006 Page 21 of 46
17
20061213 Wood - Complaint 2nd Amended DKS.wpd
occurring at its boarding schools, as well as the harmful effects of that abuse, continuing through the
present day. Defendants have also acted in concert to fraudulently conceal the fact that Defendants
engaged in a pattern and practice of stealing the value of student Plaintiffs’ labor, forcing them to work
several hours per day, for the duration of their attendance at the boarding schools without any
compensation whatsoever, as well as the value to student Plaintiffs of even a minimally sufficient
education.
2. All Defendants herein entered into a civil conspiracy to act in concert, accompanied by a
meeting of the minds regarding concerted action, the purposes of which were to suppress and minimize
public knowledge of the rampant physical, emotional, mental, and sexual abuse of minor children in the
boarding schools by teachers, supervisors, and staff, and to take a uniform position and approach to the
handling of reports of abuse.
3. This ongoing conspiracy and concert of1. WWASPS has acted in concert with the other Defendants in a pattern and practice to
fraudulently conceal the extent and nature of the physical, emotional, mental, and sexual abuse commit such wrongful acts.
4. In absence of this conspiracy and concert of action, Defendants should have responded to
repeated notice of the abuse committed on the children by the teachers, supervisors, and staff and issued
general and specific warnings to the entire WWASPS community, particularly the parents of the
children in the boarding schools. Had a proper warning been issued, the physical, emotional, mental,
and sexual abuse would never have occurred. Moreover, the theft of the value of student Plaintiffs’
work, and deprivation of their educational opportunities, would not have occurred had a proper warning
Case 2:06-cv-00708-TS-SA Document 88 Filed 12/19/2006 Page 22 of 46
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20061213 Wood - Complaint 2nd Amended DKS.wpd
been issued. Thus, Defendants’ actions in furtherance of this conspiracy are a proximate caus
Case 2:06-cv-00708-TS-SA Document 88 Filed 12/19/2006 Page 21 of ...............................................
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buzz, how many seminars and parental support groups did you attend? can you answer?
Well, it depends. Do you count the BBS? That was basically a heavily monitored and censored forum for the WWASP program parents which could be said to function like a internet support group. I used it daily until they kicked me off. I was booked for the Discovery seminar, but didn't attend. When I got the rules, I figured out what it was, and I wanted no part of it.
But if you are looking for a program parent's account of the experience you can look here:
http://www.nospank.net/bean.htm (http://www.nospank.net/bean.htm)
I do think it important to point out that as disturbing and intense as the Parent version is, what they put the kids through is much more so. They admit this, and make a joke of it.
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I want to point something out with regard to the case filing that is posted.
No one is saying that all of those things happened to every child. For sure, Some of those things happened to every child, and all of them were done to someone.
For example, not every child was forced to eat their own vomit, but some were. Not every child was beat, hit or kicked - but a lot were. Not every child was locked in a dog cage - but a lot were.
Every child in these program did experience abandonment, neglect, helplessness, humiliation, fear, hunger, sleep deprivation and various other forms of intentional infliction of mental and physical distress. These conditions are a requirement of the program. You can not brain wash a kid with out them.
The brutality described serves its purpose even tho not all the kids directly experience it. They are all aware of it, and in fear of it - and feel guilt about it - for not stopping it (as if they could, but still. . .) which helps break their minds for re-conditioning.
It is all so extremely evil.
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buzz, how many seminars and parental support groups did you attend? can you answer?
Well, it depends. Do you count the BBS? That was basically a heavily monitored and censored forum for the WWASP program parents which could be said to function like a internet support group. I used it daily until they kicked me off. I was booked for the Discovery seminar, but didn't attend. When I got the rules, I figured out what it was, and I wanted no part of it.
But if you are looking for a program parent's account of the experience you can look here:
http://www.nospank.net/bean.htm (http://www.nospank.net/bean.htm)
I do think it important to point out that as disturbing and intense as the Parent version is, what they put the kids through is much more so. They admit this, and make a joke of it.
Oh my goodness, I dont think you noticed how dated your information is. That program closed down years or decades ago. You have anything in this century? and using "nospank" as a refernce on top of it all. Those people consider parents spanking their own kids as abuse, I would be careful, buzzkill, of who you listen to. They are a fringe group trying to reach into peoples homes and tell families how to raise their kids. Would you want someone coming into your home and telling you how to raise your kids?
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What program closed down years or decades ago? Not TB - that was just last year/ very early this year. Last kid gone on the 5th of January 2009. Not Discovery (the seminar) or Resource Realizations (the operating arm of the seminars) they just re-named it. As for outdated info - I'll ask what I always do to this mindless dismissal - What has changed? Answer: Not a dam thing. I talk or write with these kids on a regular basis. I hear from new released kids on a regular basis. It is the same as it has always been. A rose by another name an all. . .
OH - and I may not agree with Jordan on every single point, but he is a great guy doing good work. God Bless him and all his efforts.
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buzz, how many seminars and parental support groups did you attend? can you answer?
Well, it depends. Do you count the BBS? That was basically a heavily monitored and censored forum for the WWASP program parents which could be said to function like a internet support group. I used it daily until they kicked me off. I was booked for the Discovery seminar, but didn't attend. When I got the rules, I figured out what it was, and I wanted no part of it.
But if you are looking for a program parent's account of the experience you can look here:
http://www.nospank.net/bean.htm (http://www.nospank.net/bean.htm)
I do think it important to point out that as disturbing and intense as the Parent version is, what they put the kids through is much more so. They admit this, and make a joke of it.
Oh my goodness, I dont think you noticed how dated your information is. That program closed down years or decades ago. You have anything in this century? and using "nospank" as a refernce on top of it all. Those people consider parents spanking their own kids as abuse, I would be careful, buzzkill, of who you listen to. They are a fringe group trying to reach into peoples homes and tell families how to raise their kids. Would you want someone coming into your home and telling you how to raise your kids?
lol. You are a pathological liar or an ignoramus. Both probably. TB, the facility in question, only OPENED one decade ago. It closed earlier this year or late last year
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:uPz ... clnk&gl=us (http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:uPzK9wFVoDUJ:www.antiwwasp.com/forum/tranquility-bay/+tranquility+bay+antiwwasp&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us).
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As much as that would be of concern for anyone else, I am not entirely concerned if Dianne felt that this message should remain private. Considering that her only intention for this letter was to condemn Katie and try to turn those that are supporting her efforts to write her story against her, I think it is all very necessary for me to expose her.
That is very scary that you think you get to decide who has rights and who does not.
She has once again taken it upon herself to try to demean and abuse her step daughter, going so far as to try to turn her online advocates against her. She is stooping to an incredible low to thwart Katie's progress and I wont grant her the right to throw low blows, even through the sanctity of privacy.
So you feel you cannot grant her any rights to throw low blows because of how she is writing? How about to dress in privacy? Would you deny a child in your care the right to dress in privacy because you felt they didn’t deserve it? If someone feels they don’t like what you are writing then it is okay to deny you your rights? Seems Femanon is a “mommy dearest” in training. Controlling people writes to privacy based on her personal opinions. I hope you don’t run for office. You really revealed alot about yourself, femanon.
That is very wrong on so many levels.
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I think the point that really needs to be made here is that ultimately Katie is the one who will end up suffering over these internet flame wars. She still is living at home and more or less unaware of any of her options.
We are all aware that aware, though some will deny it because they are raving idiots, that CCM does very little to prepare a person for living independently. Katie will learn those skills like everyone else did, which is the hard way. So keep in mind that while you guys are going at Diane hammer and tongs she's probably taking it out on Katie.
I'm going to bite my tongue and wait till Katie is out of the house before having much more to say about this.
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I think the point that really needs to be made here is that ultimately Katie is the one who will end up suffering over these internet flame wars. She still is living at home and more or less unaware of any of her options.
We are all aware that aware, though some will deny it because they are raving idiots, that CCM does very little to prepare a person for living independently. Katie will learn those skills like everyone else did, which is the hard way. So keep in mind that while you guys are going at Diane hammer and tongs she's probably taking it out on Katie.
I'm going to bite my tongue and wait till Katie is out of the house before having much more to say about this.
Considering Diane had Katie professionally tortured for 3 years, and is LOVING it, I don't think anything we say can make it "worse." Rather, I think shining sunlight on mold, tends to have a disinfectant quality. I hope the "Diane Carter" abuses her daughter Katie thread becomes the first thing you see when you google Diane Carter, Ohio.
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This is a good reminder that program parents are not ignorant victims of this industry, they are the cause and source of it.
*SOME* parents. Not all!
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Believe me, it can always get worst. Right now Katie is in a vulnerable position with no money, no relatives who will help her, no friends, and no job.
IT can always get worst and Diane knows this.
Hence why I'm not going to get into this any further until Katie is out of that place and is able to speak her mind freely without out fear of repercussions. It might be all fun on fornits for us, but someone is going to end up paying the price for all of this. It could be Diane in the long term, or....
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As much as that would be of concern for anyone else, I am not entirely concerned if Dianne felt that this message should remain private. Considering that her only intention for this letter was to condemn Katie and try to turn those that are supporting her efforts to write her story against her, I think it is all very necessary for me to expose her.
That is very scary that you think you get to decide who has rights and who does not.
Not quite. If you send a letter to Femanon, legally it's then her property to do with what she wills. When you send that letter, you risk that she will publish it publicly. Did she promise you anonymity, explicitly or implicitly? If not... well, it's your fault. Personally, I don't agree with what she did and it's not my personal policy (all emails/PMs remain private unless I get permission), but that's just my policy.
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Whew.. that's good to know psy considering you have all those emails from me written in drunkenesse professing my undying love for you cat, I think.
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Femanon, did you use to "log in "under the name "Deborah"? She had the same outllook and wanted to control what people wrote and punish them for their views. You seem a lot like her.
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No, but again you out yourself whootie.
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This is exactly right. “You could point out to her” what you consider to be abusive. What if someone that was pro-program were to talk to her about what happened to her “could they point out to her” what they consider to be what helped her over the hump?
lol of course you can. and you all regularly do. thats the beauty of fornits... everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I am hoping that you are talking about Katie TOO. There are several people living in that household who get along with each other very well. I agree that someone should look at the behaviour of everyone to see what is appropriate. I just find it amazing that you have never questioned what Katie has done.... what part she has played in all of this. Why just focus on Diane and Michael? You are not being very sincere Femanon.
Just because I do not see this issue as an opportunity to bash on a very fragile young woman doesnt mean I am not being sincere. I have considered both sides of this issue, I don't give Katie a free pass for her responsibility in all this but that is all old news by now. Since her parents ALWAYS bring it up, and Katie has already been explaining it in her story... (If you'll even let her get there before you start digging into her) I don't think it would be appropriate or helpful for me to heaping on the blame based on what her parents have said before she gets the chance to talk about it herself. Like Ive said, Ive reserved my advice for AFTER she is done writing.
In fact I have refrained from saying much of anything about the parents on the forums, until this woman decided to contact me personally, then I felt it necessary to give my opinion on the fact that she is avoiding the responsibility she has in this situation. I already acknowledge Katie's responsibility and she does as well the only ones here who are skirting accountability is Michael and Dianne. I think its important to address that.
They may be frustrated and telling the truth here. She may deserve the blame.
Spoken like a true program parent lol.
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That is very scary that you think you get to decide who has rights and who does not.
This isnt a question of rights... I am not stopping her from expressing herself, and I am not violating her right to privacy as there was no agreement between us to keep her abusive ramblings private. I may feel personally that her presence here is unwelcome (again not speaking for all of Fornits, just my personal opinion) but that's only because I feel a bit protective of Katie. I think she has really had enough of her step mother's blame and insults, and I don't see anything wrong with pointing that out. But of course there is nothing I am doing to force Dianne to stop posting here, and she surely has the right not to listen to me.
I find it funny however that you would use this argument to defend parents who have stifled the RIGHTS and happiness of their daughter for years on top of having her imprisoned without due process. lol lets seriously not even touch on the issue of rights, because that is a battle you cannot logically win against us. Especially when the parents like to stick to the opinion that rights are privileges that you have to earn.
So you feel you cannot grant her any rights to throw low blows because of how she is writing? How about to dress in privacy? Would you deny a child in your care the right to dress in privacy because you felt they didn’t deserve it?
lol What?... are you seriously comparing me posting a message this woman sent me and sexually abusing a child? are you completely out of your mind or have you just run out of bad analogies?
If someone feels they don’t like what you are writing then it is okay to deny you your rights? Seems Femanon is a “mommy dearest” in training. Controlling people writes to privacy based on her personal opinions. I hope you don’t run for office. You really revealed alot about yourself, femanon.
That is very wrong on so many levels.
Thats funny because I wasn't aware exactly what right this woman has to abuse her step daughter in the first place and concerning a "right to privacy" that just simply does not apply here. Maybe if I were to to have been the one to look up her information and posted it that would relate here but this woman sent me this letter, I did not seek her out and I certainly did not intend to keep any communication private, especially when she is using this private medium in order to try to turn me against her step daughter. I'm just not willing to support that agenda, and I would feel this same way if at any time someone else explained to me about a crime or wrong doing they were bringing upon their children. What kind of person would keep that quiet? I certainly wouldn't be an accomplice to that or condone that behavior by not reporting it.
Honestly I'm done arguing with you silly trolls, it seems like you just like argue for arguing sake, even though you'd think you would at least attempt to make the slightest bit of sense!
:blabla:
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Honestly I'm done arguing with you silly trolls, it seems like you just like argue for arguing sake, even though you'd think you would at least attempt to make the slightest bit of sense!
:blabla:
That's the truth. Distraction is their aim, best i can figure, as they often drift into outright nonsensical nonsence. When they get that bad, assume they're thewho.
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The whooter is becoming the new catch phrase to describe all programmies. New emoticon in the works me thinks.
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The whooter is becoming the new catch phrase to describe all programmies. New emoticon in the works me thinks.
can I make it? I was an official paid pixel pusher, after all.
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So long as it involves a strap on of some sort.
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So long as it involves a strap on of some sort.
why? he doesnt deserve a strap on. a strap on is a good thing.
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Ok.. as long as it involves a broomstick.
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This isnt a question of rights... I am not stopping her from expressing herself, and I am not violating her right to privacy as there was no agreement between us to keep her abusive ramblings private. I may feel personally that her presence here is unwelcome (again not speaking for all of Fornits, just my personal opinion) but that's only because I feel a bit protective of Katie. I think she has really had enough of her step mother's blame and insults, and I don't see anything wrong with pointing that out. But of course there is nothing I am doing to force Dianne to stop posting here, and she surely has the right not to listen to me.
I find it amazing that no one except psy sees a problem with this. I bet if a kid came on here and said “staff called my parents and told them I was the one who stole the diamond ring from the table and that I pawned it for drug money”. Everyone would cry foul... that evil staff person, if the kid wanted his parents to know about it he would have told them himself, what gives the staff the right to do that?...... we should shut all programs down, they are all alike!!!! The parents should be shot for leaving a diamond ring on the table, its not the kids fault. He is only a minor!!! Those abusive program parents!!
I find it funny however that you would use this argument to defend parents who have stifled the RIGHTS and happiness of their daughter for years on top of having her imprisoned without due process. lol lets seriously not even touch on the issue of rights, because that is a battle you cannot logically win against us. Especially when the parents like to stick to the opinion that rights are privileges that you have to earn.
Okay you keep talking about this “due process” that the kids are not getting. Do you have a link of some sort or explain it to those of us who are not up to speed?
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You miss the part where Psy also states that while he doesn't totally agree with Fem's decision there was no promise of privacy given to emails.
Once you send an email to another person it is theirs to do what they want with it. I personally stopped posting private messages and emails after I posted one of Karen in Dallas's private messages. Under most circumstances I wouldn't post an email either, but that wouldn't prevent me from posting one if I felt that there was sufficient reason to do so.
As for Diane's little missive...
I probably would have responded with an on.nimp.org link and forgot about it. I'll reserve my personal opinions regarding that woman and her treatment of Katie until Katie is out of that house.
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Okay kids today we are going to do some “Feel good” stuff. This is a chance for you to write a letter to your parents and tell them everything that you always wanted to tell them.. apologize for things you have done in the past, yell at them for those things they did to you that you thought were unfair or just tell them how you are feeling today. You don’t have to mail them if you don’t want to and you can spend an hour working on this.
Afterwards you can read them to the group if you would like to share your letter with the group.
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I find it amazing that no one except psy sees a problem with this. I bet if a kid came on here and said “staff called my parents and told them I was the one who stole the diamond ring from the table and that I pawned it for drug money”. Everyone would cry foul... that evil staff person, if the kid wanted his parents to know about it he would have told them himself, what gives the staff the right to do that?...... we should shut all programs down, they are all alike!!!! The parents should be shot for leaving a diamond ring on the table, its not the kids fault. He is only a minor!!! Those abusive program parents!!
Red Herring at best old bean, and personally I'd be offended that the Staff did not report the incident to the police. I know if I was a kid in a program I'd want them to do so.
Far better juvie than a program by a long shot.
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Okay kids today we are going to do some “Feel good” stuff. This is a chance for you to write a letter to your parents and tell them everything that you always wanted to tell them.. apologize for things you have done in the past, yell at them for those things they did to you that you thought were unfair or just tell them how you are feeling today. You don’t have to mail them if you don’t want to and you can spend an hour working on this.
Afterwards you can read them to the group if you would like to share your letter with the group.
Wow.. so what you are saying is the kid would get a chance at presenting a fair and balanced letter to their group regarding their responsibilities and their parent's?
The shock is overwhelming...
I didn't think such a thing was possible.
YOU mean... it isn't entirely the kid's fault? OMG....
NO EFFIN' WAY dude.
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I find it amazing that no one except psy sees a problem with this. I bet if a kid came on here and said “staff called my parents and told them I was the one who stole the diamond ring from the table and that I pawned it for drug money”. Everyone would cry foul... that evil staff person, if the kid wanted his parents to know about it he would have told them himself, what gives the staff the right to do that?...... we should shut all programs down, they are all alike!!!! The parents should be shot for leaving a diamond ring on the table, its not the kids fault. He is only a minor!!! Those abusive program parents!!
Red Herring at best old bean, and personally I'd be offended that the Staff did not report the incident to the police. I know if I was a kid in a program I'd want them to do so.
Far better juvie than a program by a long shot.
I dont think many here would agree with you. If the staff took the information from those letters and read it back to the parents the kids would cry foul and people on this forum would not agree with this either. What you would hear are arguments that if the kids wanted their parents to know that information they would have mailed the letters themselves. But since they chose not to mail it the staff should have respected their privacy.
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This isnt a question of rights... I am not stopping her from expressing herself, and I am not violating her right to privacy as there was no agreement between us to keep her abusive ramblings private. I may feel personally that her presence here is unwelcome (again not speaking for all of Fornits, just my personal opinion) but that's only because I feel a bit protective of Katie. I think she has really had enough of her step mother's blame and insults, and I don't see anything wrong with pointing that out. But of course there is nothing I am doing to force Dianne to stop posting here, and she surely has the right not to listen to me.
I find it amazing that no one except psy sees a problem with this. I bet if a kid came on here and said “staff called my parents and told them I was the one who stole the diamond ring from the table and that I pawned it for drug money”. Everyone would cry foul... that evil staff person, if the kid wanted his parents to know about it he would have told them himself, what gives the staff the right to do that?...... we should shut all programs down, they are all alike!!!! The parents should be shot for leaving a diamond ring on the table, its not the kids fault. He is only a minor!!! Those abusive program parents!!
Nice try, but in therapy there is an expectation of confidentiality (which staff violate by talking to parents about the details of what is talked about). This is not only unethical, but if they were actual therapists (and not just quacks practicing "therapy" without a license), could result in revocation of license and/or fines and/or civil suits and/or prison time. There is no such expectation of confidentiality when you send out an email or PM. It might be distasteful to me and certainly not my policy, but it is technically neither illegal nor unethical.
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This isnt a question of rights... I am not stopping her from expressing herself, and I am not violating her right to privacy as there was no agreement between us to keep her abusive ramblings private. I may feel personally that her presence here is unwelcome (again not speaking for all of Fornits, just my personal opinion) but that's only because I feel a bit protective of Katie. I think she has really had enough of her step mother's blame and insults, and I don't see anything wrong with pointing that out. But of course there is nothing I am doing to force Dianne to stop posting here, and she surely has the right not to listen to me.
I find it amazing that no one except psy sees a problem with this. I bet if a kid came on here and said “staff called my parents and told them I was the one who stole the diamond ring from the table and that I pawned it for drug money”. Everyone would cry foul... that evil staff person, if the kid wanted his parents to know about it he would have told them himself, what gives the staff the right to do that?...... we should shut all programs down, they are all alike!!!! The parents should be shot for leaving a diamond ring on the table, its not the kids fault. He is only a minor!!! Those abusive program parents!!
Nice try, but in therapy there is an expectation of confidentiality (which staff violate by talking to parents about the details of what is talked about). This is not only unethical, but if they were actual therapists (and not just quacks practicing "therapy" without a license), could result in revocation of license and/or fines and/or civil suits and/or prison time. There is no such expectation of confidentiality when you send out an email or PM. It might be distasteful to me and certainly not my policy, but it is technically neither illegal nor unethical.
Why the hell are you people humoring the who with this discussion? Duh. no comparison between forcefully taking someone's mail after you've imprisoned them and posting a letter someone sends you. This is so moronic. Why do you allow these trolls to control the discussion? They are trying to distract from this woman's sociopathy. Don't let them suceed. STFU
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1st Response
I can tell you didn't write this message to me personally, I can only guess you sent it out to a few key players of this site,
As much as you may think this is some kind of parent hate fest it is not, it is an intervention.
I have suggested to her she needs to go to college out of your city, possibly even out of state. However the fact that you have spent a magnanimous amount of money on CCM, I can see how giving her a college education would be the last thing you would be willing to do. It sucks that she will have to suffer for that mistake as she already has bore the brunt of that ill fated decision, but I suggest you at least support her in getting her own student loans.
If you are seriously unwilling to give her the love and support she needs at this point, and insist on continuing to blame her and make her life miserable, then by all means, send her here. I live in San Diego, CA right next to SDSU. Have her apply for college and look into student housing, I will be willing to take responsibility for mentoring her through these integral steps in her maturation. I can't promise you I will be able to financially support her, learning to provide for herself is something her parents should have taught her by now, but I am more than capable of giving her the emotional support and positive example she needs to learn what it means to be an adult. I just think its sad that once again you are so unwilling to set aside your hateful, judgmental and vile attitude to simply be a good mother to Katie, is it really any wonder why she has these epic melt-downs?????
-Chelsea
Well to start off, you are wrong. You are the only person I sent it to. I knew you'd throw it up here to keep the flames going.
Intervention my ass. All you people are doing is leading her down more destructive paths, giving her false hope as you don't actually know her, don't know truths, only believe what you want to believe. Give me a fucking break.
College: Yes, we have also told her she needs to at least go to a college that has dorms on campus, either in state of out. Both of our older children have done that and have done well. And all our children knew from the start that college is on their own. There is nothing we can do to help them. Filling out the FAFSA is a waste of energy as they won't qualify to get anything anyway. This is life. You want a better one, there are things you have to step up and do for yourself. Yes, we feel bad we can't help out any of our kids. NO, it's not just because we spent so much to try to save Katies life.
I do feel, and have told her this, that hopefully her and I will get to a better place when we don't live under the same roof. As someone else pointed out, some personalities just clash. Funny I don't have the same problems with any of the other kids, or the kids' friends, etc. They think we are great and fun parents.
Anything we have tried to teach her has gone in one ear and out the other. She "right-fights" constantly, and knows it all about everything. I'm very tired, the whole family is tired (even the ones that don't live here), even the dog is tired. He can tell when she's in her moods and hides in his cage. But I suppose you all will now say I've clouded his mind with terrible thoughts about her and I've even turned him against her.
There is no amount of bullshit you people can spew to make me believe that Cross Creek was a horrible, torture chamber. The people there were caring. There were no strip searches, I don't know where you get your sick info. They didn't have to eat their vomit, etc. Those were stories of the little "cherubs" that tried to manipulate their parents to get them out. We visited it. We talked endlessly with the great therapists there. She still talks about how she misses the place and Garth and Ben. But even they were worn down by her, didn't know what else to do to help her grow and understand that she doesn't know everything and didn't have to argue about every minut detail of every conversation.
You seriously think you can do better, have at it. She's of age and can make her own decisions. Let's see how much money you have to miss before you say anything. Let's see how many times you have to tell her to do something before you lose it. Let's see how many of your personal items and cherished family mementos have to be broken or become missing before you say enough is enough.
Quoted for evil. Both of Katie's parent's Diane and Micheal Carter, Dayton Ohio, are absuive, obtuse, pitiless beasts.
Has anyone called social services on them?
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Why the hell are you people humoring the who with this discussion? Duh. no comparison between forcefully taking someone's mail after you've imprisoned them and posting a letter someone sends you. This is so moronic. Why do you allow these trolls to control the discussion? They are trying to distract from this woman's sociopathy. Don't let them suceed. STFU
It is called information. It is funny how this gets to you so much. Let me break it down a little simpler for you. 2 people are posting on an open forum and another sends an email message to another. This is implied to be private. If she wanted the information on the forum she would have done it herself. When you hand your credit card to your waitress this doesn’t mean she can write your card number down and give it to the bus boy who is collecting card numbers or that she can post your information online.
The same with kids who are writing letters to their families. If they wanted their parents to read this stuff they would have mailed the letter. But your argument is that the information was disclosed openly by Diane, so it needs to work both ways. Dont go crying all over your keyboard when it happens to you or kids in programs unless you think it is wrong for everyone.... it either acceptable or it isn’t.
That is the double standard my friend.
It doesn’t matter if I am a troll or thewho or a sociopath. You are dismissing the posts because you are simply afraid of the truth!!
Look, I don’t expect you to admit you are wrong. I have read here enough to know this isn’t going to happen. Just pointing out the double standard here.
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It's good to know there are people who put so much effort in convincing the internet they are right.
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It's good to know there are people who put so much effort in convincing the internet they are right.
That's thewho. He convinces no one. His comments are too nonsensical: "There's no such thing as due process."But his aim isn't to convince it's too distract. Just don't fall for the trolling
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Femanon, can we change this thread's title, to "Diane Carter abuses her step daughter" or something like that? It'll make her abuse post higher up on google
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It's good to know there are people who put so much effort in convincing the internet they are right.
That's thewho. He convinces no one. His comments are too nonsensical: "There's no such thing as due process."But his aim isn't to convince it's too distract. Just don't fall for the trolling
It doesnt matter if it is thewho or not. No one will anwser the question. Femanon brought it up:
find it funny however that you would use this argument to defend parents who have stifled the RIGHTS and happiness of their daughter for years on top of having her imprisoned without due process.
Are kids entitled to "due process"? What is due process and how does it apply to kids in programs. Why are people afraid to answer this?
Everytime someone asks a tough question or challenges you, you label them a troll. Why are you so afraid?
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:guesswho:
desperate to talk to someone?
hates his 'daughter'?
sadistic?
loves harassing young, female, trauma victims
going to have to go with all "what is thewho" , for 1000 dollars Alex.
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It is called information. It is funny how this gets to you so much. Let me break it down a little simpler for you. 2 people are posting on an open forum and another sends an email message to another. This is implied to be private. If she wanted the information on the forum she would have done it herself. When you hand your credit card to your waitress this doesn’t mean she can write your card number down and give it to the bus boy who is collecting card numbers or that she can post your information online.
That's the who. He's lying about his identity and posing as a "guest" as usual. He used the exact same analogy and phrasing before. Don't gt trolled by this freakish child abuser.
5http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLL_enUS305US305&q=isac
But why would anyone want to post another persons personal information on the web without their permission?
It isnt right or ethical and it could be dangerous.
I understand the information is out there to find...but think of it as giving your credit card to your waitress, there is an implied trust there...would it be okay for her to give the information to a "bus boy" who asked her for it? She is not stealing, right? You gave it to her freely..... But I think we can all see that it is unethical and not right for her to do this. .
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It is called information. It is funny how this gets to you so much. Let me break it down a little simpler for you. 2 people are posting on an open forum and another sends an email message to another. This is implied to be private. If she wanted the information on the forum she would have done it herself. When you hand your credit card to your waitress this doesn’t mean she can write your card number down and give it to the bus boy who is collecting card numbers or that she can post your information online.
That's the who. He's lying about his identity and posing as a "guest" as usual. He used the exact same analogy and phrasing before. Don't gt trolled by this freakish child abuser.
5http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLL_enUS305US305&q=isac
But why would anyone want to post another persons personal information on the web without their permission?
It isnt right or ethical and it could be dangerous.
I understand the information is out there to find...but think of it as giving your credit card to your waitress, there is an implied trust there...would it be okay for her to give the information to a "bus boy" who asked her for it? She is not stealing, right? You gave it to her freely..... But I think we can all see that it is unethical and not right for her to do this. .
great find! :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :rofl: :clown:
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Who ever you are I can tell you that you will not get an answer here on that question. “Due process” is used along with troll, abuse etc. as a smoke screen to try to convince readers that kids in programs are not being treated fairly or simply “They are lying to you”. They avoid defining these terms because if they did the readers would realize that the kids are not denied due process, abused and the people asking simple questions are not trolls.
Due process is more fully “due process of the law”. This applies to adults not children and that is why they are avoiding your question by calling you a troll or thewho.
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Who ever you are I can tell you that you will not get an answer here on that question. “Due process” is used along with troll, abuse etc. as a smoke screen to try to convince readers that kids in programs are not being treated fairly or simply “They are lying to you”. They avoid defining these terms because if they did the readers would realize that the kids are not denied due process, abused and the people asking simple questions are not trolls.
Due process is more fully “due process of the law”. This applies to adults not children and that is why they are avoiding your question by calling you a troll or thewho.
iF you want this discussed start a new thread. This is the Diane Carter, Dayton Ohio, abuses her stepdaughter thread, not the "what is due process" thread. Till then your "question" will be ignored as trolling aka distracting
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Thank you for commenting, come back when you have a teenager of your own and we can talk!
Great!! I've raised two!! What would you like to talk about?
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Who ever you are I can tell you that you will not get an answer here on that question. “Due process” is used along with troll, abuse etc. as a smoke screen to try to convince readers that kids in programs are not being treated fairly or simply “They are lying to you”. They avoid defining these terms because if they did the readers would realize that the kids are not denied due process, abused and the people asking simple questions are not trolls.
Due process is more fully “due process of the law”. This applies to adults not children and that is why they are avoiding your question by calling you a troll or thewho.
Nice try, whooter boy.
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Who ever you are I can tell you that you will not get an answer here on that question. “Due process” is used along with troll, abuse etc. as a smoke screen to try to convince readers that kids in programs are not being treated fairly or simply “They are lying to you”. They avoid defining these terms because if they did the readers would realize that the kids are not denied due process, abused and the people asking simple questions are not trolls.
Due process is more fully “due process of the law”. This applies to adults not children and that is why they are avoiding your question by calling you a troll or thewho.
iF you want this discussed start a new thread. This is the Diane Carter, Dayton Ohio, abuses her stepdaughter thread, not the "what is due process" thread. Till then your "question" will be ignored as trolling aka distracting
Hell, I don't mind answering it. Due process may, in the strict sense, be a legal term but it applies to the healthcare industry as well. Due process is afforded to everyone. In Florida, you cannot forcibly commit someone without due process. Well, adults that is.....cuz they do it to kids all the damn time and it's criminal, IMO.
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Who ever you are I can tell you that you will not get an answer here on that question. “Due process” is used along with troll, abuse etc. as a smoke screen to try to convince readers that kids in programs are not being treated fairly or simply “They are lying to you”. They avoid defining these terms because if they did the readers would realize that the kids are not denied due process, abused and the people asking simple questions are not trolls.
Due process is more fully “due process of the law”. This applies to adults not children and that is why they are avoiding your question by calling you a troll or thewho.
iF you want this discussed start a new thread. This is the Diane Carter, Dayton Ohio, abuses her stepdaughter thread, not the "what is due process" thread. Till then your "question" will be ignored as trolling aka distracting
Hell, I don't mind answering it. Due process may, in the strict sense, be a legal term but it applies to the healthcare industry as well. Due process is afforded to everyone. In Florida, you cannot forcibly commit someone without due process. Well, adults that is.....cuz they do it to kids all the damn time and it's criminal, IMO.
Start a new thread, Anne! This is the Diane Carter abuses Katie thread. Don't let the trolls set the terms of the discussion, please. :rasta: ::poke:: :hug: :hug: :hug: ::OMG:: :nods:
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It's good to know there are people who put so much effort in convincing the internet they are right.
That's thewho. He convinces no one. His comments are too nonsensical: "There's no such thing as due process."But his aim isn't to convince it's too distract. Just don't fall for the trolling
It doesnt matter if it is thewho or not. No one will anwser the question. Femanon brought it up:
find it funny however that you would use this argument to defend parents who have stifled the RIGHTS and happiness of their daughter for years on top of having her imprisoned without due process.
Are kids entitled to "due process"? What is due process and how does it apply to kids in programs. Why are people afraid to answer this?
Everytime someone asks a tough question or challenges you, you label them a troll. Why are you so afraid?
lol I love how you rile yourself up who... try google numskull... the constitution is a pretty well quoted documentation. Besides I already wrote about that here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=27188&start=330#p330368)
furthermore... I not only expect, but invite ANYONE who receives a private message from me to feel free to post in anywhere you like, especially this forum if you feel it necessary to do so. I hold no double standard here, and I do my best to avoid such things in life. I may have different opinions, experiences and reasons for my actions then people on this forum, (and this planet) but I know all too well that if I want to be treated with respect I first have to give it. The same goes, if I cross the line, I should expect the logical consequences.
This woman has been crossing the line with Katie for years, but that was Katie's business and all I can do is give my opinion on the matter, however when this woman crossed the line with me, sent me a personal message not only insulting Katie but also insulting me and my fellow posters on this forum I felt it was everyone's right to defend themselves against her attacks. If there were some prior agreement to privacy I would have kept it between her and I, but I have not established that kind of a relationship with this woman and I certainly do not have a professional obligation to protect a message (that was composed to be aimed at all Fornits members not just me) that she willingly sends to me. There was no personal information here, no phone numbers or credit card numbers, this was a message she intended for us to read, I did not seek out this info on my own. The content of this letter is more of the same we have seen her posting on the site, and more of the abuse that Katie has been talking about. I found it relevant to our conversations to share this with the group and if there is some reason why the content in this letter should not have been shared, then she is free to contact me and explain this herself.
At this point this seems to just be the only lame angle you can find on this topic to derail everyone from the fact that this woman went out of her way to turn her step daughters only "support group" (as funny as that is when talking about fornits) against her. This was a perfect display of exactly what we have been pointing out all along and I have no problem doing what I can to make sure that these kinds of mind games are exposed and Dianne's true colors are clear for everyone to see.
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Nope. I answered plainly and succinctly. No further discussion of it is necessary as there really is no debate about it. The law says you can't just commit someone unless you have verifiable proof that they are an immediate[/u] danger to themselves or others. And that's only for 72 hours of observation, then they have to have a judge order the commitment. End of due process discussion. :seg2:
And :rasta: backatya!!!! :seg:
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Why the hell are you people humoring the who with this discussion? Duh. no comparison between forcefully taking someone's mail after you've imprisoned them and posting a letter someone sends you. This is so moronic. Why do you allow these trolls to control the discussion? They are trying to distract from this woman's sociopathy. Don't let them suceed. STFU
It is called information. It is funny how this gets to you so much. Let me break it down a little simpler for you. 2 people are posting on an open forum and another sends an email message to another. This is implied to be private. If she wanted the information on the forum she would have done it herself. When you hand your credit card to your waitress this doesn’t mean she can write your card number down and give it to the bus boy who is collecting card numbers or that she can post your information online.
The same with kids who are writing letters to their families. If they wanted their parents to read this stuff they would have mailed the letter. But your argument is that the information was disclosed openly by Diane, so it needs to work both ways. Dont go crying all over your keyboard when it happens to you or kids in programs unless you think it is wrong for everyone.... it either acceptable or it isn’t.
That is the double standard my friend.
I do see your point, but speaking for Femanon and reading here response she felt the woman was abusive towards Katie and therefore felt compelled to post the email on this forum. I dont think she makes a habit out of posting peoples private messages on here or would think it is okay to tell kids parents what they say privately in a program setting.
It doesn’t matter if I am a troll or thewho or a sociopath. You are dismissing the posts because you are simply afraid of the truth!!
Look, I don’t expect you to admit you are wrong. I have read here enough to know this isn’t going to happen. Just pointing out the double standard here.
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Bus boys.... daycare... gym class... public school... double standard... forcibly eating own throw up , (how funny) .. sexually abused in every way (my favorite)
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Nope. I answered plainly and succinctly. No further discussion of it is necessary as there really is no debate about it. The law says you can't just commit someone unless you have verifiable proof that they are an immediate[/u] danger to themselves or others. And that's only for 72 hours of observation, then they have to have a judge order the commitment. End of due process discussion. :seg2:
And :rasta: backatya!!!! :seg:
So what you are saying is that each and every child in daycare needs to go thru 72 hours of observation before being committed to an institutional setting? Most of the daycare kids are doing just fine and are not in immediate danger of anything yet they enter these facilities every day.
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@ WHO:
Everytime you make a good point they come out of the woodwork in droves to cover your posts and do everything to avoid the discussion.
If it is you welcome back!
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Nope. Not even close. So kindly fuck off now please.
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Nope. I answered plainly and succinctly. No further discussion of it is necessary as there really is no debate about it. The law says you can't just commit someone unless you have verifiable proof that they are an immediate[/u] danger to themselves or others. And that's only for 72 hours of observation, then they have to have a judge order the commitment. End of due process discussion. :seg2:
And :rasta: backatya!!!! :seg:
So what you are saying is that each and every child in daycare needs to go thru 72 hours of observation before being committed to an institutional setting? Most of the daycare kids are doing just fine and are not in immediate danger of anything yet they enter these facilities every day.
Observation before being committed is applicable to daycare or out patient care how? Due process before being locked up is applicable to your analogy how?
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@WhO!!!??,.....!!
RiGhT On NiGgA!!!!!!!
............ThESe PeePS DoNt REkOgNIZE ur GeNiuS!
... FuK deM mOtHeRfucKers!
i'';M wid Ya WhHOOO!!!
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Nope. I answered plainly and succinctly. No further discussion of it is necessary as there really is no debate about it. The law says you can't just commit someone unless you have verifiable proof that they are an immediate[/u] danger to themselves or others. And that's only for 72 hours of observation, then they have to have a judge order the commitment. End of due process discussion. :seg2:
And :rasta: backatya!!!! :seg:
So what you are saying is that each and every child in daycare needs to go thru 72 hours of observation before being committed to an institutional setting? Most of the daycare kids are doing just fine and are not in immediate danger of anything yet they enter these facilities every day.
Observation before being committed is applicable to daycare or out patient care how? Due process before being locked up is applicable to your analogy how?
Observation before attending a TBS is applicable how? Daycare? outpatient care? Retirement community?
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100!
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@WhO!!!??,.....!!
RiGhT On NiGgA!!!!!!!
............ThESe PeePS DoNt REkOgNIZE ur GeNiuS!
... FuK deM mOtHeRfucKers!
i'';M wid Ya WhHOOO!!!
this guest is so funny. I wish some of ya'll would log in, just cause I'd love to send you fan letters!
:twofinger: :twofinger: :birthday: :nods: :roflmao: :rasta:
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Nope. I answered plainly and succinctly. No further discussion of it is necessary as there really is no debate about it. The law says you can't just commit someone unless you have verifiable proof that they are an immediate[/u] danger to themselves or others. And that's only for 72 hours of observation, then they have to have a judge order the commitment. End of due process discussion. :seg2:
And :rasta: backatya!!!! :seg:
So what you are saying is that each and every child in daycare needs to go thru 72 hours of observation before being committed to an institutional setting? Most of the daycare kids are doing just fine and are not in immediate danger of anything yet they enter these facilities every day.
Observation before being committed is applicable to daycare or out patient care how? Due process before being locked up is applicable to your analogy how?
Niles, I'd love it if you could write to Diane and Micheal Carter, abusive parents and cultic devotees at their website.
http://parents-of-a-troubled-teen.blogspot.com/ (http://parents-of-a-troubled-teen.blogspot.com/)
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Nope. I answered plainly and succinctly. No further discussion of it is necessary as there really is no debate about it. The law says you can't just commit someone unless you have verifiable proof that they are an immediate[/u] danger to themselves or others. And that's only for 72 hours of observation, then they have to have a judge order the commitment. End of due process discussion. :seg2:
And :rasta: backatya!!!! :seg:
So what you are saying is that each and every child in daycare needs to go thru 72 hours of observation before being committed to an institutional setting? Most of the daycare kids are doing just fine and are not in immediate danger of anything yet they enter these facilities every day.
Observation before being committed is applicable to daycare or out patient care how? Due process before being locked up is applicable to your analogy how?
Niles, I'd love it if you could write to Diane and Micheal Carter, abusive parents and cultic devotees at their website.
http://parents-of-a-troubled-teen.blogspot.com/ (http://parents-of-a-troubled-teen.blogspot.com/)
Write to what, the blog? Their ass? The wall of their house? their driveway? their lawn in rye grass? :seg:
Write WHAT?
Pee pee doo doo you're stupid ?
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Nope. I answered plainly and succinctly. No further discussion of it is necessary as there really is no debate about it. The law says you can't just commit someone unless you have verifiable proof that they are an immediate[/u] danger to themselves or others. And that's only for 72 hours of observation, then they have to have a judge order the commitment. End of due process discussion. :seg2:
And :rasta: backatya!!!! :seg:
So what you are saying is that each and every child in daycare needs to go thru 72 hours of observation before being committed to an institutional setting? Most of the daycare kids are doing just fine and are not in immediate danger of anything yet they enter these facilities every day.
Observation before being committed is applicable to daycare or out patient care how? Due process before being locked up is applicable to your analogy how?
Niles, I'd love it if you could write to Diane and Micheal Carter, abusive parents and cultic devotees at their website.
http://parents-of-a-troubled-teen.blogspot.com/ (http://parents-of-a-troubled-teen.blogspot.com/)
Write to what, the blog? Their ass? The wall of their house? their driveway? their lawn in rye grass? :seg:
Write WHAT?
Pee pee doo doo you're stupid ?
I don't know. Something that will wake him up? These people are HORRIBLE.
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They're exercising cognitive dissonance so they can defend their actions and get attention and cry victim for themselves, and use institutional terms and buzzwords/thought stopping cliches every third word. They don't GIVE A FUCK about anything but themselves and looking through their program-colored lenses (a nice shade of brown) at the world to make it suit them.
The only thing you can do is advice Katie on her rights and how to move out, help her when she wants to, and make programmommy and programdaddy shit a few bricks. Unless they take it out on her because they got what they deserve, then I think you need to start hammering the pineapples...
Also there is a five deep recursive quote limit. What kind of shitty forum software is this Psy? god damn.
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Katie is the one that needs talking to at this point. She is over 18 and will be moving out soon. Nothin to teach the parents now. They are pretty much out of the picture.
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Katie is the one that needs talking to at this point. She is over 18 and will be moving out soon. Nothin to teach the parents now. They are pretty much out of the picture.
I just said that. thank you mr echo.
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They're exercising cognitive dissonance so they can defend their actions and get attention and cry victim for themselves, and use institutional terms and buzzwords/thought stopping cliches every third word. They don't GIVE A FUCK about anything but themselves and looking through their program-colored lenses (a nice shade of brown) at the world to make it suit them.
The only thing you can do is advice Katie on her rights and how to move out, help her when she wants to, and make programmommy and programdaddy shit a few bricks. Unless they take it out on her because they got what they deserve, then I think you need to start hammering the pineapples...
Also there is a five deep recursive quote limit. What kind of shitty forum software is this Psy? god damn.
The injustice of it horrorfies me. Instead of an education 3 years of torture...
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They're exercising cognitive dissonance so they can defend their actions and get attention and cry victim for themselves, and use institutional terms and buzzwords/thought stopping cliches every third word. They don't GIVE A FUCK about anything but themselves and looking through their program-colored lenses (a nice shade of brown) at the world to make it suit them.
The only thing you can do is advice Katie on her rights and how to move out, help her when she wants to, and make programmommy and programdaddy shit a few bricks. Unless they take it out on her because they got what they deserve, then I think you need to start hammering the pineapples...
Also there is a five deep recursive quote limit. What kind of shitty forum software is this Psy? god damn.
The parents know that they cannot be sued. They have been reading here for a few years now. In fact they have a good case on suing Katie if it turns out that she didn’t apply herself and dragged out her stay there resulting in extra expenses that could have been used to help her siblings thru college.
Three years is a long time to just get your shit together, you know what I mean?
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They're exercising cognitive dissonance so they can defend their actions and get attention and cry victim for themselves, and use institutional terms and buzzwords/thought stopping cliches every third word. They don't GIVE A FUCK about anything but themselves and looking through their program-colored lenses (a nice shade of brown) at the world to make it suit them.
The only thing you can do is advice Katie on her rights and how to move out, help her when she wants to, and make programmommy and programdaddy shit a few bricks. Unless they take it out on her because they got what they deserve, then I think you need to start hammering the pineapples...
Also there is a five deep recursive quote limit. What kind of shitty forum software is this Psy? god damn.
The parents know that they cannot be sued. They have been reading here for a few years now. In fact they have a good case on suing Katie if it turns out that she didn’t apply herself and dragged out her stay there resulting in extra expenses that could have been used to help her siblings thru college.
Three years is a long time to just get your shit together, you know what I mean?
That's so stupid and just bullshit its not even wrong, dude. jesus.
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Why the hell are you people humoring the who with this discussion? Duh. no comparison between forcefully taking someone's mail after you've imprisoned them and posting a letter someone sends you. This is so moronic. Why do you allow these trolls to control the discussion? They are trying to distract from this woman's sociopathy. Don't let them suceed. STFU
It is called information. It is funny how this gets to you so much. Let me break it down a little simpler for you. 2 people are posting on an open forum and another sends an email message to another. This is implied to be private.
Maybe that was her wish, but a contract is mutual. You sending me a message saying "don't post this" doesn't mean I have agreed not to post it or have any obligation (legal, ethical, or otherwise) to oblige your wish. It would entirely be up yo my discretion. Now... If I have already agreed not to post any of your messages (such as by stating a policy or personally agreeing), that's a form of contract, and by publishing the message, i'm breaching that contract.
In my case... I don't publish emails or PMs I get because it's an issue of trust. I want to be able to get emails and PMs from Staff and program parents (and I do). If I suddenly started publishing that information, I wouldn't get any more emails/PMs with anonymous tips.
If she wanted the information on the forum she would have done it herself. When you hand your credit card to your waitress this doesn’t mean she can write your card number down and give it to the bus boy who is collecting card numbers or that she can post your information online.
That's credit card fraud. You're confusing the issue and making a nonsensical argument.
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In fact they have a good case on suing Katie if it turns out that she didn’t apply herself and dragged out her stay there resulting in extra expenses that could have been used to help her siblings thru college.
And that would be an instance of dumb fucking parents blaming their own idiocy on their kid... and they'd lose the suit, too.
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It is called information. It is funny how this gets to you so much. Let me break it down a little simpler for you. 2 people are posting on an open forum and another sends an email message to another. This is implied to be private. If she wanted the information on the forum she would have done it herself. When you hand your credit card to your waitress this doesn’t mean she can write your card number down and give it to the bus boy who is collecting card numbers or that she can post your information online.
That's the who. He's lying about his identity and posing as a "guest" as usual. He used the exact same analogy and phrasing before. Don't gt trolled by this freakish child abuser.
5http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLL_enUS305US305&q=isac
But why would anyone want to post another persons personal information on the web without their permission?
It isnt right or ethical and it could be dangerous.
I understand the information is out there to find...but think of it as giving your credit card to your waitress, there is an implied trust there...would it be okay for her to give the information to a "bus boy" who asked her for it? She is not stealing, right? You gave it to her freely..... But I think we can all see that it is unethical and not right for her to do this. .
great find! :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :rofl: :clown:
LOL... BUSTED!
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I wonder if threatening to suit your child b/c you spent tens of thousands of dollars to have them mentally and physically assaulted, and they didn't respond well, could be defined as Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress?
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I feel compelled to once again point out to Katie's folks - everything you are doing (that can be seen from whats posted here) will make your daughter's mental illness much worse. She has been diagnosed with a serious mental illness and you are clearly not bothering to educate yourselves about it. You are instead listening to the kool-aid - and all the kool-aid wants to to keep you drinking it so yu will keep assisting with their cash flow. They are not concerned with your daughter's health or happiness - or yours.
Borderlines live with e great dread of abandonment; their emotional excess is made much worse by invalidation - and you people are constantly invalidating everything she thinks and feels - and you have already proven you will abandon her - and are making your future intention to do so again crystal clear.
It might be best if she has her own place. Many parents of Borderlines do find that they are all much happier with separate living arrangements - but they don't just cast them out. They co-sign for apartments and buy them small homes and help them apply for assistance and disability - they make it clear they will be available when needed while also setting reasonable boundaries.
In time there is almost always improvement in the severity of symptoms and everyone is much calmer and happier. But if you just kick a sick young girl to the curb you can expect nothing but disaster for all - and I can't believe this is what you want.
Stop listening to those sick and twisted voices encouraging you to treat your daughter with such a cold and callouses disregard. It is evil.
If you had gotten her legitimate mental health care instead of throwing her to the wolves, the mental health community would be helping set her up with independent living and assisting with disability applications and so on. But as you failed to get her appropriate care, this job now falls to you.
Much of the hostility I feel for you folks is your bone headed refussal to be honest and realistic about your daughter's mental illness; and face the fact you have made it worse with your behavior; and do all you can to seek appropriate help for her from this point on.
This Program thinking of yours in the face of so much obvious harm to your daughter just makes me so angry. Please educate yourselves with regard to your daughter's illness as well as what happens in LGAT and Synanon based programs - and start thinking for yourselves again.
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LOOK EVERYONE JUST STOP! I AM TIRED OF THE BULLSHIT AT HOME AND I DONT WANT IT HERE> DIANE LEAVE FORNITS ALONE! IS THERE NOT ONE PLACE I CAN GO TO BE RID OF THE PATRONIZING!!!!
Jesus christ! I cant even write without trolls and others taking either side. DONT TAKE SIDES> ITS NOT ABOUT THAT! i am merely defending myself.
SHOW SOME RESPECT FOR MANKIND! This is not about blmae its about relaity. Please, if you cant say anything nice dont open your mouth. i cant stand it anymore!
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LOOK EVERYONE JUST STOP! I AM TIRED OF THE BULLSHIT AT HOME AND I DONT WANT IT HERE> DIANE LEAVE FORNITS ALONE! IS THERE NOT ONE PLACE I CAN GO TO BE RID OF THE PATRONIZING!!!!
Just so you know... it appears it's not Dianne (see my last message above). There is a troll on this board who likes to take whatever side isn't being argued. In a sense he plays devil's advocate (though he is often indistinguishable from the real deal). In that sense, I respect him as he's good at what he does, but on the other hand, he's completely insensitive, and for that I must apologize on his behalf.
For better or worse... he's like a cancerous boil on the butt of this forum. Can't get rid of him so you just have to learn to live with him. I've learned to look on the bright side of things. When he's not around, it's a little too boring, for one, and secondly, although it might not be his intent, he does get people to think about why they believe what they believe, which is always a good thing.
Jesus christ! I cant even write without trolls and others taking either side. DONT TAKE SIDES> ITS NOT ABOUT THAT! i am merely defending myself.
SHOW SOME RESPECT FOR MANKIND! This is not about blmae its about relaity. Please, if you cant say anything nice dont open your mouth. i cant stand it anymore!
Well. It's sort of the nature of an unmoderated forum. It can't really be avoided. The CAN section of the forum *is* moderated but at the same time it tends to be less active as there is less freedom in terms of what can be said (for example: no anon posting, meaning people can't express an unpopular view anonymously), and thus there is less controversy.
On the surface, it might seem that this forum thrives on controversy and drama. While there might be some truth in that, I like to think of it as a necessary function of a thinking society... open commerce of ideas... a think tank... In the words of a supreme court justice:
"The First Amendment was designed "to invite dispute," to induce "a condition of unrest," to "create dissatisfaction with conditions as they are," and even to stir "people to anger." The idea that the First Amendment permits punishment for ideas that are "offensive" to the particular judge or jury sitting in judgment is astounding. No greater leveler of speech or literature has ever been designed. ... The First Amendment was not fashioned as a vehicle for dispensing tranquilizers to the people. Its prime function was to keep debate open to "offensive" as well as to "staid" people. The tendency throughout history has been to subdue the individual and to exalt the power of government. The use of the standard "offensive" gives authority to government that cuts the very vitals out of the First Amendment. As is intimated by the Court's opinion, the materials before us may be garbage. But so is much of what is said in political campaigns, in the daily press, on TV, or over the radio. By reason of the First Amendment - and solely because of it - speakers and publishers have not been threatened or subdued because their thoughts and ideas may be "offensive" to some."
In other words, while it might not be popular in a program (where you think what they want you to think), it's also the fundamental basis on which a free society matures and grows. If everybody agrees and nobody is free to disagree, nothing ever changes... nothing ever evolves... "drama" as some might call it, is a necessary thing.
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Just one thing i'd like to say... I think it's unfair to use Katie or even her parents as pawns in an ideological war. Not that i'm pointing fingers here, but this thread has seemed to become more about judging and pointing fingers and less about Katie telling her own story. (a real good movie on this moral message is Children of Men, and i'd highly recommend seeing it.) Sometimes when you believe so strongly in a cause, you forget the individual people affected and the cause itself becomes more important... In that sense, you lose what you set out to do in the first place (encourage people to think for themselves, in this case).
People on the anti-program side seem to think that Katie should come to conclusion X and people on the pro-program side seem to think Katie's story means something different. All I suggest is perhaps stop trying to interpret her past experiences for her, let her tell her story, and let her come to her own conclusions without interference.
I have enough faith in history to know what those conclusions will likely be, anyway... and even if they differ, it's her opinion, and she's certainly entitled to it.
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Not that i'm pointing fingers here, but this thread has seemed to become more about judging and pointing fingers and less about Katie telling her own story.
Well sure, but this thread is not about Katie telling her story. She has the Katie's story thread for that - and you've repeatedly offered her a moderated forum for it, if she wants.
This family needs to halt the vicious public back biting - which appears to be entirely of the parents doing.
Just so you know... it appears it's not Dianne (see my last message above). There is a troll on this board who likes to take whatever side isn't being argued. In a sense he plays devil's advocate (though he is often indistinguishable from the real deal). In that sense, I respect him as he's good at what he does, but on the other hand, he's completely insensitive, and for that I must apologize on his behalf.
It gets confusing around here sometimes.
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I'd just like to mention that I did not post this thread on this sub forum... I posted it in the CAN sub forum under the title "Message from Dianne Carter" and simply asked if other people had received that same message. Someone else must have read it in that moderated forum and felt it necessary to post it in the un-moderated forum therefore encouraging the trolls to rile up some controversy in this topic. That was not MY personal intention, I was calling for discussion on the matter because I was under the impression that more people on this forum received this letter. I intended to speak with THEM about it, not argue with trolls.
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LOOK EVERYONE JUST STOP! I AM TIRED OF THE BULLSHIT AT HOME AND I DONT WANT IT HERE> DIANE LEAVE FORNITS ALONE! IS THERE NOT ONE PLACE I CAN GO TO BE RID OF THE PATRONIZING!!!!
Just so you know... it appears it's not Dianne (see my last message above). There is a troll on this board who likes to take whatever side isn't being argued. In a sense he plays devil's advocate (though he is often indistinguishable from the real deal). In that sense, I respect him as he's good at what he does, but on the other hand, he's completely insensitive, and for that I must apologize on his behalf.
For better or worse... he's like a cancerous boil on the butt of this forum. Can't get rid of him so you just have to learn to live with him. I've learned to look on the bright side of things. When he's not around, it's a little too boring, for one, and secondly, although it might not be his intent, he does get people to think about why they believe what they believe, which is always a good thing.
Jesus christ! I cant even write without trolls and others taking either side. DONT TAKE SIDES> ITS NOT ABOUT THAT! i am merely defending myself.
SHOW SOME RESPECT FOR MANKIND! This is not about blmae its about relaity. Please, if you cant say anything nice dont open your mouth. i cant stand it anymore!
Well. It's sort of the nature of an unmoderated forum. It can't really be avoided. The CAN section of the forum *is* moderated but at the same time it tends to be less active as there is less freedom in terms of what can be said (for example: no anon posting, meaning people can't express an unpopular view anonymously), and thus there is less controversy.
On the surface, it might seem that this forum thrives on controversy and drama. While there might be some truth in that, I like to think of it as a necessary function of a thinking society... open commerce of ideas... a think tank... In the words of a supreme court justice:
"The First Amendment was designed "to invite dispute," to induce "a condition of unrest," to "create dissatisfaction with conditions as they are," and even to stir "people to anger." The idea that the First Amendment permits punishment for ideas that are "offensive" to the particular judge or jury sitting in judgment is astounding. No greater leveler of speech or literature has ever been designed. ... The First Amendment was not fashioned as a vehicle for dispensing tranquilizers to the people. Its prime function was to keep debate open to "offensive" as well as to "staid" people. The tendency throughout history has been to subdue the individual and to exalt the power of government. The use of the standard "offensive" gives authority to government that cuts the very vitals out of the First Amendment. As is intimated by the Court's opinion, the materials before us may be garbage. But so is much of what is said in political campaigns, in the daily press, on TV, or over the radio. By reason of the First Amendment - and solely because of it - speakers and publishers have not been threatened or subdued because their thoughts and ideas may be "offensive" to some."
In other words, while it might not be popular in a program (where you think what they want you to think), it's also the fundamental basis on which a free society matures and grows. If everybody agrees and nobody is free to disagree, nothing ever changes... nothing ever evolves... "drama" as some might call it, is a necessary thing.
You should just Ban the who. Itsa troll in the tradtiionall sence. Someone who posts just to annoy and harrass. I consider his posts spam :spam: :soapbox:
Katie, the prople responding to you are either your awful parents or thewho. When people post they were sexually abused in programs, thwho makes fun of them. He is a middleged man with maturity and psychological development of a toddler. He is an ASPEN staff. He will be as mean to you as possible. Just post in the CAN forum. Then you won't have to put up with his shit or that Diane/Micheal Carter, Dayton Ohio.
People here support you. As does anyone with a brain/heart. Unfortunately that means Diane doesn't
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LOOK EVERYONE JUST STOP! I AM TIRED OF THE BULLSHIT AT HOME AND I DONT WANT IT HERE> DIANE LEAVE FORNITS ALONE! IS THERE NOT ONE PLACE I CAN GO TO BE RID OF THE PATRONIZING!!!!
Just so you know... it appears it's not Dianne (see my last message above). There is a troll on this board who likes to take whatever side isn't being argued. In a sense he plays devil's advocate (though he is often indistinguishable from the real deal).
Well, he doesn't quite take the side that isn't being argued. He deliberately abuses or makes absurd comments as a way of rerouting our focus. I don't think that's respectable. And though it does bump the google rankings it is hurtful to people and harmful to the purpose of this forum.
Also, even though at other points you say you "can't out him" just now you did. Obviously there is some discretion involved here, so just ban the creep or only let him post in one forum, or not 1,000 times a day, or even just not in topics that pertain to this. I'm going to post my most persuasive emotiocons now and you will agree with me. girl. :soapbox: :jawdrop: :timeout: :deal: :poison: :nods: :feedtrolls: :beat: :clown: :jamin: :spam: :blabla: :guesswho: ::deadhorse:: O0 ::OMG:: :wall:
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I dind't out him. I didn't even check the IP. He outed himself by using the same *exact* eccentric argument he did in the past under his old username... and it wasn't even me who pointed it out, but another guest. If you've been around here long enough you'd recognize his writing/argument style at a glance, anyway. It's VERY distinctive.
And no... He's not getting banned. It doens't even work anyway. He just uses a proxy. We could try cutting off all proxies and all tor nodes off, but that would likely both not work (he's even resorted to dialup in the past) and resulting in restricting the ability of everybody else to use proxies to stay completely anonymous.
There was a time in the past where he was banned... long story.. it was a mistake based on innacurate information that he was flooding. anyway. It didn't work. Nothing has worked. Deal with it. If you want a moderated forum, post in sections such as CAN or elsewhere. This forum is open to anybody and everybody and always will be. Sorry, but that's the way Ginger (Antigen) wants it and that's the way I enforce it. Take it up with her as I have no real authority other than to enforce and recommend.
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harmful to the purpose of this forum.
Which is? You should ask Antigen about that before you go presuming what the purpose of this forum is.
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He deliberately abuses or makes absurd comments as a way of rerouting our focus.
So ignore him and reroute the focus back by returning to the original topic. Try it. It works.
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harmful to the purpose of this forum.
Which is? You should ask Antigen about that before you go presuming what the purpose of this forum is.
examination of certain subjects. Who posts 1,000 times and wrecks examination of a certain subjects. But anyway, what is "dial up"? This whoperson is rather distrubingly obsessed.I wonder if he is just a true-blue cult disiple acting on orders, or paid. Quite strange.
So ignore him and reroute the focus back by returning to the original topic. Try it. It works.
You think? i don't know 20 pages of counter-arguments (not made by me!) seems to imply otherwise. But maybe you are right! :soapbox: :feedtrolls: :nods: :beat: ::deadhorse:: ::poke::
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He deliberately abuses or makes absurd comments as a way of rerouting our focus.
So ignore him and reroute the focus back by returning to the original topic. Try it. It works.
Come on man, fornits using EFFORT?
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harmful to the purpose of this forum.
Which is? You should ask Antigen about that before you go presuming what the purpose of this forum is.
There's something to be said for sparring with TheWho as a means for toughing up your critical thinking and rhetorical skill. You could even say he is part of the post-program healing process! :D
Maybe not a very pleasant part for some of us, but you certainly have the freedom to ignore him when it gets to be too much.
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Just so you know... it appears it's not Dianne (see my last message above). There is a troll on this board who likes to take whatever side isn't being argued. In a sense he plays devil's advocate (though he is often indistinguishable from the real deal). In that sense, I respect him as he's good at what he does, but on the other hand, he's completely insensitive, and for that I must apologize on his behalf.
For better or worse... he's like a cancerous boil on the butt of this forum. Can't get rid of him so you just have to learn to live with him. I've learned to look on the bright side of things. When he's not around, it's a little too boring, for one, and secondly, although it might not be his intent, he does get people to think about why they believe what they believe, which is always a good thing.
Just to point out there were also some insensitive posts directed towards Katies parents and their story as well. I am not sure if we want to call them trolls too or are the trolls just the ones who are insensitive towards Katie? Either way I agree with you that there is no need to write insensitive posts towards anyone. Maybe I am being a bit closed minded or unfair because the anti-program posters here may take on the title of “trolls” on a pro program forum so this may be considered fair.
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they say some go get lost at will
others lose their way
some will swim, others fly
drown, and crash, and burn
but it dont matter, anyways
all return to onest begun
we're told one thing, do another
it's the human way
know too much, know too little
reason just the same
cash it in, time has come
god dont need no banks
stand up please, on your knees
hands clamped tight with fear
crystal tears, trembling brow
the time is finally near
so much waiting, all that time
no doubt, it has begun
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There's something to be said for sparring with TheWho as a means for toughing up your critical thinking and rhetorical skill. You could even say he is part of the post-program healing process! :D
That's like sparring with an 80-year-old with scoliosis.