Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) => Topic started by: Anonymous on April 15, 2006, 02:20:00 PM
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For every negative comment, there is a parent and child saying something entirely different. Yeah, it doesn't mean it's the truth, but if they are willing to believe it's the truth, then what?
http://wwaspsrebuttal.com/parent_references.html (http://wwaspsrebuttal.com/parent_references.html)
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My name is Dani. I was at Cross Creek for about 3 years total and am listed as "Dani" on that site. After leaving the program, I lived with someone who worked there and his wonderful family for 2 more years. As a favor to someone who works there and called me, I agreed to have a post I wrote when I was 17 or 18, which was also written willingly but upon request, changed to include my graduation from college. Also, I needed to come to a place where I could admit to myself that although many people who worked with me did care about me, I could hold on to that and simultaneously think for myself about the situation in its entirety, as well as about the astounding number of claims coming from programs all over. I've realized that caring about kids and having qualified people as the decision makers are two different things. I was 21 then, and I'm 28 now. I was told that the article was for the program newsletter, which was compiled by someone I care about, and I didn't see the scope of this situation until maybe a year or so ago when I found some of this online. I apologize to any families or students who feel I was part of a deception. I hope that you understand that my views on the program have evolved in light of new information and education.
After I began reading online about what is going on in programs, I became concerned. Also, I began working with children and learned what is legal and what is not. I now realize that some of what happened at Cross Creek that I once perceived as normal now concerns me. Cross Creek appears to be one of the tamest WWASP programs, so I guess I should consider myself lucky.
I wanted to vomit after seeing the Hobbit, the dog cages, and Steven Frederickson and the others shaking years later while discussing their memories. Amberly Knight described the conditions as similar to Abu Ghraib. I work with children every day to make the world a better place, and it sickens me to think that I possibly had any part in hurting kids.
I never consented to have my photo or story online. I emailed the program to have it removed, probably about a month or two ago, and see it's still up. I know it can take a few weeks to do, especially if your computer techs are off-site. Thank you for posting that link as I hadn't checked back myself. I just left a message at Cross Creek and you should see one less picture pretty soon.
I know that everyone who works there knows me and will probably be shocked that my opinions have evolved. I know that there are plenty of people at WWASP who care about kids, or were when I was there from 11-13 years ago. I do think that to some it was just a job or a paycheck, and major decisions made about the program appear to be financially driven. I would list Brent Facer, Garth Lasater, Jana Moody, Bernie, Cameron Pullan (though he did dole out group consequences liberally), therapist Darryl if he's still there, Glenda Gabriel, Mary Beth Litchfield, Cathy Christiansen and the Pearts as people who stood out as going the extra mile to make the kids there feel comfortable and respected, who at least believed they were doing something good for kids. They never belittled me or made me feel like trash, and I think that if they knew something was wrong, they would have wanted to fix it. Cross Creek seems to have been run differently than some of the other programs, and again my heart goes out to anyone who was ever placed in a stress position, isolated/confined, or otherwise treated inhumanely in a program.
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I think that points out another problem. Half these so-called testimonies are given in the program, or fresh out of the program, or before the person really understands the scope of what they had been through. Even I had positive things to say at first...it's just how they want it. By the time the damage has been done, nobody wants to listen anymore.
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Fortunately, there are people like me who do want to listen, and catalogue and record everything.
I'm surprised by what you've got to say about Cameron Pullan though. Would you be willing to talk to me about your experiences at Cross Creek?
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Sure, I will talk to anyone who wants to talk to me. I will try to message you.
I do not mean to discount what everyone is saying on other forums about what they've been through. Remember, I was in programs from 1992-1995, so I can't say what recent graduates went through.
Cameron wasn't in charge of a program when I was at Cross Creek. He was just a regular staff. He used to organize games for us on the weekend, which was a nice change from the lame weeknight schedule of Zig Ziglar tapes and sing-a-long videos. Anyone can change, and actually in light of those Hobbit pictures, I probably should have left him off my list of people who seemed to care. It takes one sadistic fuck to actually plan a room like that, buy materials, envision how kids will fit inside, find a location away from the other buildings so you know it won't have heating during the Montana winter, and then build it and force a child inside against his/her will. The doghouse I built last summer was planned with consideration for the weather, seasonal changes, entry, the view, etc. That Hobbit is disgusting.
I was well behaved at Cross Creek. As everyone knows, the better you were, the better you had it. When I was there, they had locked isolation rooms, some with surveillance cameras.
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[email protected] then
as i have been posting ad nauseam on this site of late.
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I guess you're right, aardvark. :smile:
I'm also surprised at what you said about Cameron. While I was at Spring Creek he was non-existant on the facility, except for the time he called staff central at 2:00 in the morning, drunk, and made all the students get up and go out to the court.
Chaffin Pullan was the more present director, and you hardly saw him either. I think as they made more money they slowly stopped caring about the kids...
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I read all of the lying bull shit you have shared off the wwasp rebuttal in the Kids in Crisis glossy brochures Teen Help sends out to get us desperate,vunerable,stupid parents to believe you they caring and able to provide professional care to our kids.
WWASP is a fraud. Save the bullshit for people who havent experinced the truth. Fucking koolaide drinker. Guzzle guzzle guzzle. You're dead.
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On 2006-04-15 11:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"For every negative comment, there is a parent and child saying something entirely different. Yeah, it doesn't mean it's the truth, but if they are willing to believe it's the truth, then what?
http://wwaspsrebuttal.com/parent_references.html (http://wwaspsrebuttal.com/parent_references.html)"
Has it ever occured to you those boilerplate replies are only a few notches above "yes, please buy WWASPS product! *nodnod*"?
They just made it the fuck up! The only people who actually identify themselves and use specifics instead of nebulous "IT R GOOD" type statements are the people who are critical of the program. Pro-programmies have had their facilities to be critical removed in those fucked up seminars.
But, well, of course, the real problem is nobody knows how to be a critic anymore.[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2006-04-15 23:28 ]
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Notice none of the testimonials say "my kid has been home for..." they are giving praise while their kid is still incarcerated. These are written during the seminars as homework. Also some parents get totally brainwashed, like the ones who financed the 'crisis' video. The parents get way more brainwashed than any of the kids do, IMO.
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On 2006-04-15 16:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Sure, I will talk to anyone who wants to talk to me. I will try to message you.
I do not mean to discount what everyone is saying on other forums about what they've been through. Remember, I was in programs from 1992-1995, so I can't say what recent graduates went through.
Cameron wasn't in charge of a program when I was at Cross Creek. He was just a regular staff. He used to organize games for us on the weekend, which was a nice change from the lame weeknight schedule of Zig Ziglar tapes and sing-a-long videos. Anyone can change, and actually in light of those Hobbit pictures, I probably should have left him off my list of people who seemed to care. It takes one sadistic fuck to actually plan a room like that, buy materials, envision how kids will fit inside, find a location away from the other buildings so you know it won't have heating during the Montana winter, and then build it and force a child inside against his/her will. The doghouse I built last summer was planned with consideration for the weather, seasonal changes, entry, the view, etc. That Hobbit is disgusting.
I was well behaved at Cross Creek. As everyone knows, the better you were, the better you had it. When I was there, they had locked isolation rooms, some with surveillance cameras.
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Anon, your logic is clear, but you're relying on misinformation for your conclusions. From someone who knows, the building is pretty much in the middle of the campus, right next to therapists' offices and the dining room. It was always heated, and never even had locks on the door. There is no such thing as isolation, either. And your initial impression of Cameron is, in my opinion, pretty accurate: he's a good guy.
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Anon, your logic is clear, but you're relying on misinformation for your conclusions. From someone who knows, the building is pretty much in the middle of the campus, right next to therapists' offices and the dining room. It was always heated, and never even had locks on the door. There is no such thing as isolation, either. And your initial impression of Cameron is, in my opinion, pretty accurate: he's a good guy.
The other day you said the hobbit didn't have doors, now you are saying that it didn't have locks, but there were doors? Why can't you get your story straight. The hobbit did have locked doors, and even though it had a very basic heater, it was kept freezing at night, as documented in the Pure lawsuit with the boy who's orange froze. No such thing as isolation? The hobbit is isolation, you are making no sense. Cameron is not a good guy, he just enjoys being comandant of his own prison camp.
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On 2006-04-17 08:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
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Anon, your logic is clear, but you're relying on misinformation for your conclusions. From someone who knows, the building is pretty much in the middle of the campus, right next to therapists' offices and the dining room. It was always heated, and never even had locks on the door. There is no such thing as isolation, either. And your initial impression of Cameron is, in my opinion, pretty accurate: he's a good guy.
The other day you said the hobbit didn't have doors, now you are saying that it didn't have locks, but there were doors? Why can't you get your story straight. The hobbit did have locked doors, and even though it had a very basic heater, it was kept freezing at night, as documented in the Pure lawsuit with the boy who's orange froze. No such thing as isolation? The hobbit is isolation, you are making no sense. Cameron is not a good guy, he just enjoys being comandant of his own prison camp."
Entryway, silly . . . a door on the entryway to keep the heat in. It never had a lock.
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Yet it was cold enough for an orange to freeze. Riiiiiiiiiight.
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The silliest thing about this conversation is that one side is going on personal experience and the other has only seen the brochure.
I can very well do without God both in my life and in my painting, but I cannot, suffering as I am, do without something which is greater than I am, which is my life, the power to create.
--Vincent Van Gogh, Dutch painter
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On 2006-04-18 08:05:00, Eudora wrote:
"The silliest thing about this conversation is that one side is going on personal experience and the other has only seen the brochure.I can very well do without God both in my life and in my painting, but I cannot, suffering as I am, do without something which is greater than I am, which is my life, the power to create.
--Vincent Van Gogh, Dutch painter
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The brochure talks about frozen oranges? Pretty shaky PR.
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The hobbit is gone.
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As recently as last week it was still on the OHSSAT images.
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On 2006-04-18 09:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The hobbit is gone."
So they don't use an isolation room at SCL anymore, that's news to me? We all know they upgraded the hobbit because of all the negative press. Nothing has changed though, and if you are impressed by that I feel sorry for your kid.
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The brochure talks about frozen oranges? Pretty shaky PR.
No, a boy under oath testifying in a court of law said this. And it's true, because I've been in there and know how cold it gets. Their PR is pictures of teens playing guitars, or hiking and sitting in group -- you know, things you NEVER get to do at SCL. Lies, it's all based on lies.
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On 2006-04-18 10:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
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The brochure talks about frozen oranges? Pretty shaky PR.
No, a boy under oath testifying in a court of law said this. And it's true, because I've been in there and know how cold it gets. Their PR is pictures of teens playing guitars, or hiking and sitting in group -- you know, things you NEVER get to do at SCL. Lies, it's all based on lies."
I'm sorry, but you're wrong. You may be accurately relating your experience, but I was there two days ago, and there were kids on the basketball court playing guitars over at the end where no one was shooting hoops. It was kind of cold out, but there were a bunch of kids on the ropes course, too.
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I'm sorry, but you're wrong. You may be accurately relating your experience, but I was there two days ago, and there were kids on the basketball court playing guitars over at the end where no one was shooting hoops. It was kind of cold out, but there were a bunch of kids on the ropes course, too.
So you are a program staff? WWASP, you are a bunch of liars, this is proven fact. So why do you think people will continue to believe your bullshit? WWASP is now known for abusing kids and torturing teens, your credibility no longer exists. You lie to parents and abuse their kids. Why would you work for an organization like that? You can continue lying all you want, it won't change anything. I don't know how you people live with yourselves.
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WWASP staff troll this forum with their lies. Go to the Spring Crekers myspace group and talk to kids who just got out. You can't believe one thing WWASP says, they are in it for one thing, money. The staff are simple people who are taken advantage of, or are attracted to a job with authority they never earned. I'm sure they attract sadistic people too, I know I met a few while locked up there.
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Did they also end the practice of emotionally disturbed kids giving consequences to other emotionally disturbed kids? That is by definition abuse. Do you deny that mail to parents are censored? Do you deny that education
is self paced which is another way of saying no classroom teaching? Do you deny that isolation is used for punishment? That purple room looks mighty small and uncomfortable for a three day or longer stint. I dare you to have a debate on just on the single issue of young inmates giving conequences to other young inmates. Don't you find that a little disturbing? Or do you deny that?
[ This Message was edited by: Badpuppy on 2006-04-18 20:26 ]
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Every single little thing that saves WWASPS money, they try and have a good reason for. Such as letting upper levels disipline lower level kids.
They are master manipulators. Beware.
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Thanks for the warning. The practice of placing underage inmates in a position to give consequences to other underage inmates is indefensable. Apparantly the only thing left for them to do is to deny that it happens. That is why I think wwasp dad is a troll. He would have to be on another planet to not know that in the WWASP system inmates give consequences to other inmates. It is part of their core program. Yet WWASP dad simply denied it. Their is a large consensus among mental health professionals that this practice is detrimental and abusive.
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Bad puppy, someone rubbed your nose in too much poo, I think.
"Did they also end the practice of emotionally disturbed kids giving consequences to other emotionally disturbed kids?"
Why do you assume the kids at the school are all emotionally disturbed? And do you understand that a "consequence" is just losing points? Do you know about the body of research that fully supports A. increasing privileges and responsibility in increments proportional to quality of performance and B. peer tutoring?
"Do you deny that mail to parents are censored?"
Absolutely. What you're confused about here is the level of parent/family involvement. Letters to and from parents are completely private. The only exception is if the PARENT sends a copy to the therapist or family rep.
"Do you deny that education is self paced which is another way of saying no classroom teaching?"
Again, absolutely. Self-paced is your term, and refers only to the speed with which a student completes something. Self-guided describes an individual plan for every child, something private schools have been striving to create for about twenty years. The student gets to run the show, and that's as it should be. Your assumption here seems to be that the teacher is not available. This has no relation to reality.
"Do you deny that isolation is used for punishment?"
Isolation is not used. Period. It is "intervention"--by clinical definition a completely different animal.
"That purple room looks mighty small and uncomfortable for a three day or longer stint."
Intervention looks like this: a student who is escalated goes to the intervention room, accompanied by staff. They can choose to stay escalated, but most are happy to try other available means of handling things: have a therapist come over and talk, have a staff they feel confortable with come over and talk, have an upper status student (one or a few) come over and talk. If they just don't want to talk, that's OK too.
By staying relatively calm for half an hour, the student shows a willingness to act in a safe manner, and heads back to wherever he was before that. The exception? Some kids want to stay and relax; that's OK. Some also go there at their own request, for a time-out.
Bottom line? It's up to the student, every step of the way. That isn't isolating, it's empowering.
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On 2006-04-20 08:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Bad puppy, someone rubbed your nose in too much poo, I think.
"Did they also end the practice of emotionally disturbed kids giving consequences to other emotionally disturbed kids?"
Why do you assume the kids at the school are all emotionally disturbed? And do you understand that a "consequence" is just losing points? Do you know about the body of research that fully supports A. increasing privileges and responsibility in increments proportional to quality of performance and B. peer tutoring?
"Do you deny that mail to parents are censored?"
Absolutely. What you're confused about here is the level of parent/family involvement. Letters to and from parents are completely private. The only exception is if the PARENT sends a copy to the therapist or family rep.
"Do you deny that education is self paced which is another way of saying no classroom teaching?"
Again, absolutely. Self-paced is your term, and refers only to the speed with which a student completes something. Self-guided describes an individual plan for every child, something private schools have been striving to create for about twenty years. The student gets to run the show, and that's as it should be. Your assumption here seems to be that the teacher is not available. This has no relation to reality.
"Do you deny that isolation is used for punishment?"
Isolation is not used. Period. It is "intervention"--by clinical definition a completely different animal.
"That purple room looks mighty small and uncomfortable for a three day or longer stint."
Intervention looks like this: a student who is escalated goes to the intervention room, accompanied by staff. They can choose to stay escalated, but most are happy to try other available means of handling things: have a therapist come over and talk, have a staff they feel confortable with come over and talk, have an upper status student (one or a few) come over and talk. If they just don't want to talk, that's OK too.
By staying relatively calm for half an hour, the student shows a willingness to act in a safe manner, and heads back to wherever he was before that. The exception? Some kids want to stay and relax; that's OK. Some also go there at their own request, for a time-out.
Bottom line? It's up to the student, every step of the way. That isn't isolating, it's empowering.
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Bottom line? Parents use these programs to get rid of their kids.
Ask any kid if they would rather be raised by their parents or a therapeutic community?
And please, save the B.S. about how the kid wouldbedeadorinjail.
Therapeutic boarding schools are prisons for rich kids whose parents simply don't want them around.
Amazing how many white kids are "sick" when it's a convenient way to remove them from their home, school and community and dump them into a high-priced private lock down facility with or without therapy.
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This would be a lot more fun if their lies were more sophisticated.
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Lets take this one point at time. I didn't say that all of your kids are emotionally disturbed. But the federal government studies show that 75% of the residential treatment population is reincarcerated in a psychiatric hospital or a correctional facility. And when you said that minors give point infractions to other minors you are in fact admiting that minors discipline other minors in a way in a way the results in loss of privileges and the lengthening of incarceration. THERE IS NO PRISON IN AMERICA WHERE INMATES ARE PART OF A PROCCESS THAT DECIDES THE LENGTH OF THE STAY OF ANOTHER INMATE. AS for the clinical studies on the wisdom of increasing privileges and responsibilities That is a red herring. CITE ME ONE JOURNAL ARTICLE WHICH STATES IT IS A GOOD IDEA FOR MINORS, THREE QUARTERS OF WHOM WILL BE INCARECERATED AT LATER DATE TO HAVE ANY DECISION MAKING AUTHORITY CONCERNING ABOUT THE TREATMENT OF OTHER CHILDREN.
Not only is it detrimental to the mental health of those on the receiving end of those point losses, but it is also harmful to those who have to give the consequences. They will live with the guilt that a decision of theirs lengthened the incarceration of their peers. This also has the effect of justifying and internalizing the ill treatment and abuse the discipling inmate recieved when he entered the program. This form of systematic brutalization is just one reason why Cross Creek is one of the worst child prisons in the United States. There are hundreds of posts including former inmates talking to each other which taken as body of evidence affirm this conclusion. And even if we allow for the fact that a percentage of the accounts are exagerated or false they are very consistant, and cross many years. And many of the posters are understating their brutal experiences because they are not savy about the aceeptable standards of care in a residential treatment center. These accounts are further butressed by sworn court testimony, and court filings against Cross Creek for Fraud, education fraud, false imprisonment, negligent child care, breech of fiduciary responsibilty, , etc. The fact that Cross Creek would ever in any timeframe put minors in that freezing hellhole is testimony to the validity of the complaints and lawsuits. It reveals the lack of consience and fundamental immorality of the operators. We can argue about what you perceive as clinical intervention but I view as punishment, what you describe as education, but I view as education fraud, and 1st amendment issures in later posts. I eagerly await your response.
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Doesn't it take someone QUALIFIED to do a "clinical intervention"? Then why do the minimum wage staff, who'd otherwise be at McDonald's, get to decide who to chuck into isolation and for how long. If only all of these rich parents knew about the low-wage trash banishing their kids from view of others. Yeah, I'd sure feel empowered if an ignorant hick threw me in a hallway sized room for a few days, weeks or months.
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"By staying relatively calm for half an hour, the student shows a willingness to act in a safe manner, and heads back to wherever he was before that."
No, they show you that you're the ones in charge for the time being and totally submit to your will, which is what you want when you send them there. This means that any child who continues to stick up for him/herself will not be allowed out of confinement. That is not empowerment, it is abuse. It doesn't matter how many horses and beaches you put on the brochure, it's still bullshit.
"The exception? Some kids want to stay and relax; that's OK. Some also go there at their own request, for a time-out."
Huh? I spent three years there and never saw anyone want to go in there. Again, bullshit. Like saying an abused wife was asking for it.
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On 2006-04-20 08:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Bad puppy, someone rubbed your nose in too much poo, I think.
"Did they also end the practice of emotionally disturbed kids giving consequences to other emotionally disturbed kids?"
Why do you assume the kids at the school are all emotionally disturbed? And do you understand that a "consequence" is just losing points? Do you know about the body of research that fully supports A. increasing privileges and responsibility in increments proportional to quality of performance and B. peer tutoring?
"Do you deny that mail to parents are censored?"
Absolutely. What you're confused about here is the level of parent/family involvement. Letters to and from parents are completely private. The only exception is if the PARENT sends a copy to the therapist or family rep.
"Do you deny that education is self paced which is another way of saying no classroom teaching?"
Again, absolutely. Self-paced is your term, and refers only to the speed with which a student completes something. Self-guided describes an individual plan for every child, something private schools have been striving to create for about twenty years. The student gets to run the show, and that's as it should be. Your assumption here seems to be that the teacher is not available. This has no relation to reality.
"Do you deny that isolation is used for punishment?"
Isolation is not used. Period. It is "intervention"--by clinical definition a completely different animal.
"That purple room looks mighty small and uncomfortable for a three day or longer stint."
Intervention looks like this: a student who is escalated goes to the intervention room, accompanied by staff. They can choose to stay escalated, but most are happy to try other available means of handling things: have a therapist come over and talk, have a staff they feel confortable with come over and talk, have an upper status student (one or a few) come over and talk. If they just don't want to talk, that's OK too.
By staying relatively calm for half an hour, the student shows a willingness to act in a safe manner, and heads back to wherever he was before that. The exception? Some kids want to stay and relax; that's OK. Some also go there at their own request, for a time-out.
Bottom line? It's up to the student, every step of the way. That isn't isolating, it's empowering.
"
I know exactly who this is! ANYWAY!!!! Okay let's break it down......yes a consequence is basically losing points............but, when you work so hard to make levels and some inmate is wanting revenge on you for whatever reason........and they have the power to make your life a hell, and take away what little priveleges you've been working so hard to acheive, well, it's devistating!!! You'll never know this until you've been through it.
As far as the censorship of mail goes......you were not allowed to communicate with friends. When you wrote letters to your parents telling them what was really happening there........they were terrified, and contacted your therapist......he then maybe asked for copies? Then you are confronted with the fact of you trying to manipulate, therefore receiving some sort of punishment.
Self-paced versus self-guided? Whatever, puhleese do I even need to go there? A 2 year old can figure that one out!!!!
As far as requesting confinement....or time outs? Um..........don't know? I never once requested such a thing.........nor did anyone I know of. I would go there kicking and screaming, Nooooooooooooo!
Do not try to get me into your line of thinking. I am not buying this whatsover, and nobody else is for that matter.
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CCM girl, would you mind talking to me about your time at Cross Creek?
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CM Girl since you have an idea who responded to my questions does this person actually have a degree? Does he understand that he admitted the reliance on underage troubled youth to run a reform school? I'd hope somebody with a graduate degree would realize this is grossly inapropriate and a practice unaccptable by any mental health organization in the United States. I have a feeling he wants to run a far away from this as he can but I will give him a chance to respond before going into the issues of education fraud, and his asinine defense of a lack of meaningful pedagogy as well as absurdity of thinking that ANYONE would feel empowered as a result of coercion imposed by a four foot wide coffin.
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I think it's that loser Kelly from Myspace. The one pro-WWASPie. Watch out if you go to her group, she'll kick you out if you dare speak the truth. She ought to be raising her kids and spend less time trying to gain 15 minutes of online fame as the Sole Troll with a Role.
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On 2006-04-22 22:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I think it's that loser Kelly from Myspace. The one pro-WWASPie. Watch out if you go to her group, she'll kick you out if you dare speak the truth. She ought to be raising her kids and spend less time trying to gain 15 minutes of online fame as the Sole Troll with a Role."
:nworthy:
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If they say that student's mail to the parents isn't censored then they're lying! I was told that it was my job to look over any mail that a student was sending out and look for any phone numbers, threats of any kind(suicide, violence, etc). If there was, we were to turn it over to the Rep. If there wasn't anything then we sealed the envelope and put our initials on it. Some family parents didn't follow that rule and just sealed them, others got off on reading the letters and would tell other staff about them. If that isn't censoring, I don't know what is.
I also recall having basket searches done on my family while we were having group in the room next door. One of the girls could hear them through the door and they were laughing as they read her journal! Not only was it jr.staff that was doing it but their was a staff person with them laughing also. When I stood at the door and listened I could hear them also. I took this information to the Shift leader, but nothing was ever done about it.
How was this girl ever supposed to trust anyone again and feel comfortable putting her thoughts down in a journal???
Do they censor the students mail at SCL??? Hell yes!
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Thanks so much Anon for exposing another WWASP lie. It is ,of course, ILLEGAL to monitor letters to parents. This cannot be waived by a contract signed by the parents. PARENTS, IF YOU HAVE A CHILD IN A WWASP FACILITY TAKE THEM OUT NOW. ANY FACILITY INCLUDING JUVENILE DETENTION IS A BETTER CHOICE. At least the length their stay will not be subject to arbitrary and capricious whims of other troubled children. At least they will receive classroom teaching, not the fraudulant pretense of "self guided study" "Self guided study" in WWASP terms is a euphemism for education fraud as was found at The Academy of Ivy Ridge. How is it possible for a child to learn Algebra and Science without classroom instruction? How many children can weigh the contents of a text and hierarchically determine with no classroom instruction, the questions that should be asked. Self guided study isn't education, it's abdication. Where is the curriculum? Where are the course choices? NO PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL IN THE UNITED STATES SIMPLY HANDS OUT A BOOK WITHOUT SOME ELEMENTARY CLASSROOM ATTEMPT TO TEACH ITS CONTENTS. And that is without the additional factor that many kids were poor students. In what education universe is it possible that no classroom instruction is better than classroom instruction. No classroom instruction is a sick and pathethic gimmick to rob students of the skills they need to advance educationally, and compete for jobs in a competitive marketplace.
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On 2006-04-23 17:43:00, Badpuppy wrote:
"Thanks so much Anon for exposing another WWASP lie. It is ,of course, ILLEGAL to monitor letters to parents. This cannot be waived by a contract signed by the parents. PARENTS, IF YOU HAVE A CHILD IN A WWASP FACILITY TAKE THEM OUT NOW. ANY FACILITY INCLUDING JUVENILE DETENTION IS A BETTER CHOICE. At least the length their stay will not be subject to arbitrary and capricious whims of other troubled children. At least they will receive classroom teaching, not the fraudulant pretense of "self guided study" "Self guided study" in WWASP terms is a euphemism for education fraud as was found at The Academy of Ivy Ridge. How is it possible for a child to learn Algebra and Science without classroom instruction? How many children can weigh the contents of a text and hierarchically determine with no classroom instruction, the questions that should be asked. Self guided study isn't education, it's abdication. Where is the curriculum? Where are the course choices? NO PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL IN THE UNITED STATES SIMPLY HANDS OUT A BOOK WITHOUT SOME ELEMENTARY CLASSROOM ATTEMPT TO TEACH ITS CONTENTS. And that is without the additional factor that many kids were poor students. In what education universe is it possible that no classroom instruction is better than classroom instruction. No classroom instruction is a sick and pathethic gimmick to rob students of the skills they need to advance educationally, and compete for jobs in a competitive marketplace. "
This did too-did not is tiresome. I've seen it, you haven't. You have no personal experience to draw upon, and your reasoning is out of whack. For instance, in your ignorance of educational theory, you hold up as an example the public school system that has so far failed at least 8000 kids--that's why they go to scl. Has it occurred to you that some big plot to rob kids of skills would hardly be profitable?
:wave:
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ACTIVE MODE ENGAGED
TARGET ACQUIRED
Some baghead really meant to say...
I'm going to go with the tried-and-false "you don't know what you're talking about" "argument" again. You obviously understand education in a way that I never will, but I'm going to attack you anyway. For instance, I'm going to blame the public school system again, which, despite its faults, is not an organized attempt to defraud parents and harm kids as SCL is. It's obviously occurred to you that if we hired real teachers, we wouldn't be making nearly as much money.
TRANSLATION COMPLETE
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On 2006-04-24 14:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-04-23 17:43:00, Badpuppy wrote:
"Thanks so much Anon for exposing another WWASP lie. It is ,of course, ILLEGAL to monitor letters to parents. This cannot be waived by a contract signed by the parents. PARENTS, IF YOU HAVE A CHILD IN A WWASP FACILITY TAKE THEM OUT NOW. ANY FACILITY INCLUDING JUVENILE DETENTION IS A BETTER CHOICE. At least the length their stay will not be subject to arbitrary and capricious whims of other troubled children. At least they will receive classroom teaching, not the fraudulant pretense of "self guided study" "Self guided study" in WWASP terms is a euphemism for education fraud as was found at The Academy of Ivy Ridge. How is it possible for a child to learn Algebra and Science without classroom instruction? How many children can weigh the contents of a text and hierarchically determine with no classroom instruction, the questions that should be asked. Self guided study isn't education, it's abdication. Where is the curriculum? Where are the course choices? NO PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL IN THE UNITED STATES SIMPLY HANDS OUT A BOOK WITHOUT SOME ELEMENTARY CLASSROOM ATTEMPT TO TEACH ITS CONTENTS. And that is without the additional factor that many kids were poor students. In what education universe is it possible that no classroom instruction is better than classroom instruction. No classroom instruction is a sick and pathethic gimmick to rob students of the skills they need to advance educationally, and compete for jobs in a competitive marketplace. "
This did too-did not is tiresome. I've seen it, you haven't. You have no personal experience to draw upon, and your reasoning is out of whack. For instance, in your ignorance of educational theory, you hold up as an example the public school system that has so far failed at least 8000 kids--that's why they go to scl. Has it occurred to you that some big plot to rob kids of skills would hardly be profitable?
:wave: "
You're so retarded. The public school system fails occasionally not for lack of education, but because students don't want to do the work. The problem at WWASP schools is that the kids who want to get the full knowledge a true high school would offer get a fucking outdated book and multiple choice tests. I AM drawing on experience, and you're dumber than a bucket of nails if you think the "education" children receive there is anything other than pathetic. Oh wait, you probably are. You went to a program and still defend it...
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Our teachers would hand us back our multiple choice test with the wrong ones marked. So all you had to do was go back, memorize the ones you got wrong, and repeat that process until you got a passing grade. I became very skilled at sleeping with my head behind a book though.
Theology: The effort to explain the unknowable in terms of the not worth knowing.
--H. L. Mencken, American publisher
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This did too-did not is tiresome. I've seen it, you haven't. You have no personal experience to draw upon, and your reasoning is out of whack. For instance, in your ignorance of educational theory, you hold up as an example the public school system that has so far failed at least 8000 kids--that's why they go to scl. Has it occurred to you that some big plot to rob kids of skills would hardly be profitable?
Ummm yeah, right. I've seen it, and I didn't find one single thing factually wrong with his statement. Is that why you respond the way you do, because you cannot argue the facts you simply choose to try and discredit those who disagree with you? Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised routine of medical care.
Administrative Law Judge, Francis Young, DOJ/DEA
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Your arguements reflect your total ignorance, lack of education, and incoherent logic. But you have an excuse--your self guided study at SCL. Are you actually claiming that students prosper more without classroom teaching than with classroom teaching? That students best prosper in algebra, english, and science when the teacher says I'm never teaching anything but I will answer your questions." This logic is among the most specious reasoning I have ever enountered. In fact it doesn't even rise to that level. It is simply BIZARRE. It is only surpassed by your assumption that it takes more money not to teach, than it does to teach. Harvard Yale and Columbia find their recruits in all kinds of public and private schools, including schools with low performance, but they seem to have missed Spring Creek Lodge. But we do know something about their graduates. And that is that on average three out of four will graduate to a psychiatric hospital or penal institution. And as to what you perceive as my lack of erudition in educational philosophy every recognized professional educational association in America, including those representing private schools, affirms the need for an active pedagocical approach (classroom teaching). So tell me what educational credentials do you possess, besides your worthless SCL diploma? I am waiting to be ASTOUNDED by your vast knowledge of educational philosophy, practice and procedures. I won't even go into the asininity of your comment about your ancedotal experience. The victims of this education fraud are in many posts as well as in court testimony, and speak more eloquently than I can about the mindnumbing, boredom, and misery of their pedagoical experiences at SCL. Hopefully you will never put your children or any child, through the betrayal and treachery of a WWASP facility.
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On 2006-04-24 19:08:00, Badpuppy wrote:
"Your arguements reflect your total ignorance, lack of education, and incoherent logic. But you have an excuse--your self guided study at SCL. Are you actually claiming that students prosper more without classroom teaching than with classroom teaching? That students best prosper in algebra, english, and science when the teacher says I'm never teaching anything but I will answer your questions." This logic is among the most specious reasoning I have ever enountered. In fact it doesn't even rise to that level. It is simply BIZARRE. It is only surpassed by your assumption that it takes more money not to teach, than it does to teach. Harvard Yale and Columbia find their recruits in all kinds of public and private schools, including schools with low performance, but they seem to have missed Spring Creek Lodge. But we do know something about their graduates. And that is that on average three out of four will graduate to a psychiatric hospital or penal institution. And as to what you perceive as my lack of erudition in educational philosophy every recognized professional educational association in America, including those representing private schools, affirms the need for an active pedagocical approach (classroom teaching). So tell me what educational credentials do you possess, besides your worthless SCL diploma? I am waiting to be ASTOUNDED by your vast knowledge of educational philosophy, practice and procedures. I won't even go into the asininity of your comment about your ancedotal experience. The victims of this education fraud are in many posts as well as in court testimony, and speak more eloquently than I can about the mindnumbing, boredom, and misery of their pedagoical experiences at SCL. Hopefully you will never put your children or any child, through the betrayal and treachery of a WWASP facility.
"
Thank you for the belly laugh--
How much time would it take to refute each of your silly assumptions? Too long, but anyone can look up the word "pedagogical" and toss it about. I have an MA in education, C&I.
Here's a question: what research supports the idea that the teacher has to be the most active one, rather than the student? These are kids who have been victimized by everyone around them because all the do-gooders in their lives thought they needed protection and spoon-feeding. They were trained to be passive; it hardly served them well.
You make the common error of thinking they're helpless idiots. They're powerful, creative, and intelligent. If they feel moved to do so, they could memorize DaVinci's Codex in a matter of months, and apply what they learned there. The best way to honor their intellect is to let them make it happen.
I am a teacher, and have experience in public and private settings. Kids who are spoon fed interpret such an approach as a lack of faith in their abilities, and hardly find it empowering. They generally hold their former teachers in contempt because of it. Your argument reflects a basic lack of respect for their abilities.
The self-guided curriculum is innovative, and as effective as the student chooses to make it.
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"They're powerful, creative, and intelligent."
Is that before or after their brainwashing?
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You make the common error of thinking they're helpless idiots. They're powerful, creative, and intelligent. If they feel moved to do so, they could memorize DaVinci's Codex in a matter of months, and apply what they learned there. The best way to honor their intellect is to let them make it happen.
I recall sitting in a trailer, staring at the wall reading required reading classics over, and over for seven months straight. I mean, I don't know what to make of your statment, it sure wasn't true when I was there. Our intellect was not stimulated, it was put to sleep.
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
-- Emo Phillips
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Students are not empowered by being ignored by a teacher who sits and grades all day. There is a difference between creating meaningful, hands on opportunities vs. tossing students some old books and multiple choice tests. Make no mistake, if you graduate from Browning Academy, you'll be as stupid as its namesake.
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You have "an" MA (less some english classes?) in being a dumbfuck.
You seriously can't be defending the education in WWASP schools. Let's stop with all these generalities that you trolls love so much.
I took Chemistry at Spring Creek. That consisted of reading a chapter, taking a test, reading a chapter, taking a test, etc...for 19 chapters. These chapters were thirty pages long and contained very difficult material. Half the time the test would ask something that wasn't even IN the book, and I would be expected to "figure it out." I read that fucking book all day long, for months, and was forced to do an insane amount of work to understand something that could easily be explained to me by the right person, in a quarter of the time. I learned nothing but to regurgitate information onto a multiple choice test, and retain it for a very short amount of time before moving on to the next material. There were never any mid-terms, and the final was just a replica of the study guide they give you beforehand. You do it, memorize it, and take the test. Two weeks later, it's gone.
However at a public school, in addition to reading a book, I would receive in-class instruction from a QUALIFIED instructor, be exposed to labs and group work, taken field trips, and have the ability to ask the teacher questions and actually get answers. Hell, the chemistry teachers at my old high school would stay an extra hour afterwords just to help students out.
You're so dillusional it almost hurts.
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Thank you for the belly laugh--
How much time would it take to refute each of your silly assumptions? Too long, but anyone can look up the word "pedagogical" and toss it about. I have an MA in education, C&I.
Here's a question: what research supports the idea that the teacher has to be the most active one, rather than the student? These are kids who have been victimized by everyone around them because all the do-gooders in their lives thought they needed protection and spoon-feeding. They were trained to be passive; it hardly served them well.
You make the common error of thinking they're helpless idiots. They're powerful, creative, and intelligent. If they feel moved to do so, they could memorize DaVinci's Codex in a matter of months, and apply what they learned there. The best way to honor their intellect is to let them make it happen.
I am a teacher, and have experience in public and private settings. Kids who are spoon fed interpret such an approach as a lack of faith in their abilities, and hardly find it empowering. They generally hold their former teachers in contempt because of it. Your argument reflects a basic lack of respect for their abilities.
The self-guided curriculum is innovative, and as effective as the student chooses to make it.
"
I have to agree that a self-guided curriculum is innovative. How effective it can be is contigent on several factors. For any person to learn in an educational setting no matter whether it is self-guided or a traditional classroom there needs to be an established system of support.
This support includes having on call support from qualified educators to assist the student in understanding the material. Further, learning from a book alone is pointless. Where is the stimulation to the mind of the student if they have no one to stimulate it with experiments, presentations, lectures, and classroom discussions?
Self-guided education is an expression of your academic freedom that is typically only just tasted in your last year or so of High School. The opprotunity to choose what classes you wish to take inside the confines of an established system. Turning a child loose in a trailer with a book is hardly what I would call self-guide education.
Why don't you call it what it really is?
Educational Neglect.
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On 2006-04-25 00:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Thank you for the belly laugh--
How much time would it take to refute each of your silly assumptions? Too long, but anyone can look up the word "pedagogical" and toss it about. I have an MA in education, C&I.
Here's a question: what research supports the idea that the teacher has to be the most active one, rather than the student? These are kids who have been victimized by everyone around them because all the do-gooders in their lives thought they needed protection and spoon-feeding. They were trained to be passive; it hardly served them well.
You make the common error of thinking they're helpless idiots. They're powerful, creative, and intelligent. If they feel moved to do so, they could memorize DaVinci's Codex in a matter of months, and apply what they learned there. The best way to honor their intellect is to let them make it happen.
I am a teacher, and have experience in public and private settings. Kids who are spoon fed interpret such an approach as a lack of faith in their abilities, and hardly find it empowering. They generally hold their former teachers in contempt because of it. Your argument reflects a basic lack of respect for their abilities.
The self-guided curriculum is innovative, and as effective as the student chooses to make it.
"
I have to agree that a self-guided curriculum is innovative. How effective it can be is contigent on several factors. For any person to learn in an educational setting no matter whether it is self-guided or a traditional classroom there needs to be an established system of support.
This support includes having on call support from qualified educators to assist the student in understanding the material. Further, learning from a book alone is pointless. Where is the stimulation to the mind of the student if they have no one to stimulate it with experiments, presentations, lectures, and classroom discussions?
Self-guided education is an expression of your academic freedom that is typically only just tasted in your last year or so of High School. The opprotunity to choose what classes you wish to take inside the confines of an established system. Turning a child loose in a trailer with a book is hardly what I would call self-guide education.
Why don't you call it what it really is?
Educational Neglect. "
I agree with most of what you say, but again, not all the WWASPS programs look the same. There's only one trailer at SCL, and it's never been a classroom. The classrooms are log buildings. There are nine of them. There's also a computer lab where students do internet research, and a huge library.
SCL students go on field trips, like Science Days at theme parks, where they do physics experiments. Science students have virtual and wet labs every week--although that's only in the last year or so.
The teaching staff are well qualified. The curriculum is Prentice Hall, a very high quality program. In addition, there is the Glencoe Science series.
There are too many field trips to list here, but they include science and history integrated study trips to the Salish Kootenai reservation, and trips all over Montana for various classes. SCL has been doing these for the last five years. They're fun and effective.
SCL doesn't look like a traditional school because that didn't work for those students. But it certainly isn't neglectful.
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The only field trip I ever went on in 14 months was for "physics club" and that included twenty or so students (they had to be upper levels, mind you) that were taking either Chemistry or Physics. We didn't learn anything other than Montana has some boring ass rollercoasters. And what about lower levels? Hardly educational.
There is no internet usage WHATSOEVER. That is comepletely unheard of. You think they trust us enough to allow access to the web? Please. If we wanted information for a paper or anything, we had to use a shitty cd rom encyclepedia, or have our parents send us supplements.
The library is NOT huge, and it is censored. There are maybe 400 non fiction books, 500 fictional. I had a bigger library in my damn elementary school. Not to mention we only got to go once a week, and we could only check out three books at a time. I even asked for permission to check out more than that because I was a very fast reader and loved it, and they still wouldn't allow it. How is that educational?
The "Glencoe science series" sucks balls. Why don't you try learning Chemistry or Physics or Algebra with a crappy old Glencoe book and then fucking shoot your mouth off.
And what does it matter if the classrooms are trailers or shitty little log buildings you have to squeeze 20+ kids into? You would make an argument for that.
You know I hear that they let the prisoners at Guantanamo sleep in feather beds...
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"And what does it matter if the classrooms are trailers or shitty little log buildings you have to squeeze 20+ kids into? You would make an argument for that."
Just like painting the Hobbit purple, WWASP continues to use minor decor alterations and related insignificant comments to shadow the fact that they abuse and neglect students psychologically, physically, and educationally.
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http://www.parentsupportservices.com/ma ... -nov05.pdf (http://www.parentsupportservices.com/mag/psn/PSNoct-nov05.pdf)
Go here & scroll to page 8. They've got Gilcrease selling parents on not pulling their kids. :roll:
Okay, so families get brainwashed in the seminars. Then you give the seminar trainer a full page in the newsletter telling you not to pull your kid early. And we know that graduation has no qualifications, so he's telling them basically to stay for the 2-3 years without questioning it. You are getting veeeery sleeeeepy (yo-yo swaying in front of your eyes as trainer attempts to further deplete an assinine amount of college funds)......
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http://www.parentsupportservices.com/ma ... -nov05.pdf (http://www.parentsupportservices.com/mag/psn/PSNoct-nov05.pdf)
AND scroll to the final page. WWASP lists their programs as:
Cross Creek Programs
Carolina Springs Academy
Academy at Ivy Ridge
Majestic Ranch Academy
Tranquility Bay
Darrington Academy
Horizon Academy
Midwest Academy
Spring Creek Lodge
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AND on page 16 they acknowledge affiliations with the following referral companies/hotlines:
Teen Soulutions 1-800-429-6099
Teen Help Admissions 1-800-637-0701
Cross Creek Admissions 1-800-818-6228
Teens in Crisis 1-877-865-9935
Parent Resource Hotline 1-800-793-5156
Lifelines Family Services 1-877-723-3767
Help My Teen 1-800-247-1696
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So you interpret active teaching as spoonfeeding and making kids passive. Get a refund on your tuition. YOU ARE ACCOUNTABLE TO PRODUCE RESULTS. It is up to you to find the teaching modality that engages the student. The fact that you believe that active teaching is only about the passive reception of information is a testament to your incompetence. Its no wonder you ended up at SCL with its paultry salery, and benefits. You are the best advertisement for the need for federal legislation.
You are not using self guidance as a didactic approach. You are using this facade to dupe parents and others into believing there is a meningful didactic proccess. The Attorney General of New York State fined a similar WWASP "sef guided" program $250,000, calling it "the largest education fruad in New YOrk State History.
How many volumes are in your library? Apparently you don't allow kids access to the internet. How many times a month do inmates on average go to the public library? What reference skill are being taught? The minimum for self guided study would be to teach the inmates how to do research.
Do you actually think that incarceration, fear, degradation, humiliation, food depravation, forced seminars that use brainwashing techniques, transfer out the country beyond the protection of US laws, a four foot wide coffin empowers inmates? This is an epic but very transparant lie. The power isn't their's it is YOURS. You control every moment of the inmates lives right down to your punishment of masturbation. You transfer "half baked pizzas"
out of the country to the control of master torturer Pepper Spray Kay. When you think of SCL understand that the freezing hell hole "hobbit" will forever epitomize what SCL is and the mentality and morality of its ownership. I'm sure its a bellyful of laughs for you.
To the members of this forum I want to appologize for the depersonalization of the term inmates. I think it is important for users to understand that SCL is a private detention center that strips its inmates of human dignity.[ This Message was edited by: Badpuppy on 2006-04-25 20:01 ]
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On 2006-04-25 16:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
""And what does it matter if the classrooms are trailers or shitty little log buildings you have to squeeze 20+ kids into? You would make an argument for that."
Just like painting the Hobbit purple, WWASP continues to use minor decor alterations and related insignificant comments to shadow the fact that they abuse and neglect students psychologically, physically, and educationally. "
What matters is accuracy. If it's not important what the classroom looks like, why did anyone refer to a trailer in the first place? In order to make it all worse than it is, because the real issue is a disagreement about educational philosophy. It's morally and intellectually lazy to call that abuse.
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On 2006-04-25 14:25:00, emaree wrote:
"The only field trip I ever went on in 14 months was for "physics club" and that included twenty or so students (they had to be upper levels, mind you) that were taking either Chemistry or Physics. We didn't learn anything other than Montana has some boring ass rollercoasters. And what about lower levels? Hardly educational.
There is no internet usage WHATSOEVER. That is comepletely unheard of. You think they trust us enough to allow access to the web? Please. If we wanted information for a paper or anything, we had to use a shitty cd rom encyclepedia, or have our parents send us supplements.
The library is NOT huge, and it is censored. There are maybe 400 non fiction books, 500 fictional. I had a bigger library in my damn elementary school. Not to mention we only got to go once a week, and we could only check out three books at a time. I even asked for permission to check out more than that because I was a very fast reader and loved it, and they still wouldn't allow it. How is that educational?
The "Glencoe science series" sucks balls. Why don't you try learning Chemistry or Physics or Algebra with a crappy old Glencoe book and then fucking shoot your mouth off.
And what does it matter if the classrooms are trailers or shitty little log buildings you have to squeeze 20+ kids into? You would make an argument for that.
You know I hear that they let the prisoners at Guantanamo sleep in feather beds..."
Just in the interest of accuracy: The science trips are in Idaho. The library has over 5000 books.
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No I'm calling the Hobbit abuse. The education is just sub-standard and inadequate preparation for college.
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in your dreams they have 5000 books. you're so full of shit.
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do you have documented proof of that at all?
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On 2006-04-26 06:37:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"You want documented proof that sheep fucking in Idaho is interesting?Whoever kindles the flames of intolerance in America is lighting a fire underneath his own home.
--Harold E. Stassen, 1947
"
:lol:
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"Do you deny that mail to parents are censored?"
Absolutely. What you're confused about here is the level of parent/family involvement. Letters to and from parents are completely private. The only exception is if the PARENT sends a copy to the therapist or family rep.
"Do you deny that education is self paced which is another way of saying no classroom teaching?"
Again, absolutely. Self-paced is your term, and refers only to the speed with which a student completes something. Self-guided describes an individual plan for every child, something private schools have been striving to create for about twenty years. The student gets to run the show, and that's as it should be. Your assumption here seems to be that the teacher is not available. This has no relation to reality.
"Do you deny that isolation is used for punishment?"
Isolation is not used. Period. It is "intervention"--by clinical definition a completely different animal. "
I just had to respond to this. Mail was censord by every staff member I ever had at CCM. Not one letter I sent or recieved was uncensord by a staff memeber. I remember this one horrible staff memeber we had got fired becasue he was writing down girls addresses from their letters and saving them. He had quite a few before they found out and he was fired. He was such a jerk and totally unreasonable, a power hungry ass. He had already done the damage by the time he got fired, it was too little too late.
Ill speak a bit on the education comment as well. I would have really liked it if we had recieved more help with our work by a teacher at CCM. There was a teacher there, but sometimes they didnt even know the answers and would tell me to just look up the right ones. I remember in Geomerty, I really needed a tutor, I was awful at it. I spent 6 months working on 3 chapters or so before my "teacher" just gave up and let me cheat to pass. Id take a test almost every test at least 4 times. What I needed was extra help and someone who knew what they were doing and our math teacher did not. And when you got to the high phase facility, you only had 2 teachers for all the kids there so not alot of individual help there either. It wasnt the worst education ever, but it was pretty close.
And about isolation. Call it whatever you want, your locking a kid up in a small concrete room with no contact with anyone for days is wrong. Even when your out of iso to go eat or go to the bathroom, you cant look at or talk to ANYONE, inclutding the staff member unless its to ask for meds, the bathroom, and other necessities. Ive seen girls get taken down over stupid stuff and end up in iso for long stretches of time. And even when you get out, your back to level 0 0 points and when I was there you went to SH group. Thats just plain WORNG. How can you not see that? I know I was a brainwashed fool at one point to, I banterd on and on about how good the program is and its not abusive and blah blah blah, but after I researched the programs and saw what they do and how they treat patrents and kids, I woke up and realized the truth. WWASP is one big company and they are responsible for the actions of ANY one of those places be it CCM, TB, CSA, it dosnt matter. They preach that a kid is supposed to grow up and be accounatble and integral, but where is their freakin integrity? Where is the accountability for their programs? Why do some people who advocate for programs and say "[insert WWASP program here] wasnt a bad experience for me" look at the bullshit that goes on in other places AND STILL SAY WASSP KNOWS WHAT THEIR TALKING ABOUT AND WHAT THEYRE DOING?
Sorry, I got a bit carried away. It just drives me crazy to hear how people who are most likely not stupid in most other aspects of life, turn into ignorant self righteous morons when it comes to WWASP.
Amanda
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On 2006-04-28 13:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
""Do you deny that mail to parents are censored?"
Absolutely. What you're confused about here is the level of parent/family involvement. Letters to and from parents are completely private. The only exception is if the PARENT sends a copy to the therapist or family rep.
"Do you deny that education is self paced which is another way of saying no classroom teaching?"
Again, absolutely. Self-paced is your term, and refers only to the speed with which a student completes something. Self-guided describes an individual plan for every child, something private schools have been striving to create for about twenty years. The student gets to run the show, and that's as it should be. Your assumption here seems to be that the teacher is not available. This has no relation to reality.
"Do you deny that isolation is used for punishment?"
Isolation is not used. Period. It is "intervention"--by clinical definition a completely different animal. "
I just had to respond to this. Mail was censord by every staff member I ever had at CCM. Not one letter I sent or recieved was uncensord by a staff memeber. I remember this one horrible staff memeber we had got fired becasue he was writing down girls addresses from their letters and saving them. He had quite a few before they found out and he was fired. He was such a jerk and totally unreasonable, a power hungry ass. He had already done the damage by the time he got fired, it was too little too late.
Ill speak a bit on the education comment as well. I would have really liked it if we had recieved more help with our work by a teacher at CCM. There was a teacher there, but sometimes they didnt even know the answers and would tell me to just look up the right ones. I remember in Geomerty, I really needed a tutor, I was awful at it. I spent 6 months working on 3 chapters or so before my "teacher" just gave up and let me cheat to pass. Id take a test almost every test at least 4 times. What I needed was extra help and someone who knew what they were doing and our math teacher did not. And when you got to the high phase facility, you only had 2 teachers for all the kids there so not alot of individual help there either. It wasnt the worst education ever, but it was pretty close.
And about isolation. Call it whatever you want, your locking a kid up in a small concrete room with no contact with anyone for days is wrong. Even when your out of iso to go eat or go to the bathroom, you cant look at or talk to ANYONE, inclutding the staff member unless its to ask for meds, the bathroom, and other necessities. Ive seen girls get taken down over stupid stuff and end up in iso for long stretches of time. And even when you get out, your back to level 0 0 points and when I was there you went to SH group. Thats just plain WORNG. How can you not see that? I know I was a brainwashed fool at one point to, I banterd on and on about how good the program is and its not abusive and blah blah blah, but after I researched the programs and saw what they do and how they treat patrents and kids, I woke up and realized the truth. WWASP is one big company and they are responsible for the actions of ANY one of those places be it CCM, TB, CSA, it dosnt matter. They preach that a kid is supposed to grow up and be accounatble and integral, but where is their freakin integrity? Where is the accountability for their programs? Why do some people who advocate for programs and say "[insert WWASP program here] wasnt a bad experience for me" look at the bullshit that goes on in other places AND STILL SAY WASSP KNOWS WHAT THEIR TALKING ABOUT AND WHAT THEYRE DOING?
Sorry, I got a bit carried away. It just drives me crazy to hear how people who are most likely not stupid in most other aspects of life, turn into ignorant self righteous morons when it comes to WWASP.
Amanda
"
Thanks for sharing your experience of CCM; I can't deny or agree with anything you say because I've never seen CCM. We were discussing SCL, which does not censor mail, has no concrete rooms, and has no locked intervention room.
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You don't need locks if you have a staff ready to 'takedown' whomever doesn't do what they are told. You don't need to censore mail if the only person the kid can write to is their parents (or are you saying they have access to stamps and a mailbox?) and the parents read the letters to the family rep. The isolation rooms at SCL are made of wood, not concrete, but they are still there. Believe me, when you are trapped inside the material it is made of doesn't matter in the least!
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Thanks for sharing your experience of CCM; I can't deny or agree with anything you say because I've never seen CCM. We were discussing SCL, which does not censor mail,
Yes it does, or at least to my certain knowledge did so as recently as four months ago.
has no concrete rooms, and has no locked intervention room. "
The rooms are wood and plaster but the child is still powerless to leave.
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On 2006-05-01 12:30:00, MightyAardvark wrote:
"
Thanks for sharing your experience of CCM; I can't deny or agree with anything you say because I've never seen CCM. We were discussing SCL, which does not censor mail,
Yes it does, or at least to my certain knowledge did so as recently as four months ago.
has no concrete rooms, and has no locked intervention room. "
The rooms are wood and plaster but the child is still powerless to leave.
"
MA, your "certain knowledge" is incorrect. Mail is not censored. In fact, parents may opt to send mail to and from friends. The only way SCL even knows if that happens is if the child shows staff, or the parents mention it. I know this, because I had occasion to discipline staff who read kids' mail. It's not allowed.
The child is not powerless to leave Intervention, and even "Irish Mom" admits that. They just have to be de-escalated, and agree to stay that way. They're assisted with all kinds of support: They can talk to any staff they ask for, including therapists. They can talk to upper level students and mentors. They can sit or lie down, or they can sleep. It isn't that big a deal.
You've discussed the possibility of a well-run program. In a "well-run" program, what would you consider good options for a student who is escalated to the point of possible harm to herself or someone else?
Intervention as it works at SCL and most programs I've had experience with is simply a time-out, used as a means of de-escalating kids who are still learning how to manage their anger and frustration in a healthy way. It's not punishment.
This is a common model in all kinds of public and private settings, and very few health professionals have a problem with it at all.
I think your concern is sincere but misplaced; you couldn't possibly care more about these kids than the people working with them.
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Intervention is used as a punishment, not for de-escalation. The people in charge of making these decisions most likely have no college education, no specialized training to work with kids, and there is no oversight or regulation by anyone. SCL is a business that is supposed to regulate itself, which is somewhat difficult to believe since their number one goal is profit, not the kids. Some of the workers might say the kids are what it is about, or even believe this in their heart, but that is not how their bosses feel. If the staff get to close to kids they will be fired. If they are 'getting soft' with the kids they will be fired. Good hearted staff at SCL do not last long, think about why that is. The only people with any kind of training are the therapists who only come in once in a while and talk to the kids briefly and then charge the parents more money. SCL is nothing but a holding facility for teenagers deemed unmanageable by their parents. The staff are nothing more than guards. Then they create an image of some kind of rural treatment facility that is completely false. SCL is a prison, and a prison with bright painted walls, is still a prison. There are no need for a prison fence, their location acts as a natural defense against running. You either stay or die trying, it's still a prison. Some of the guards in a prison are nice people too, but it doesn't change the situation for those incarcerated, especially if they didn't do anything wrong and had no rights. Welcome to the world of WWASPS. Private kiddy prisons are a profitable business, watch them grow in all their horror.
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On 2006-05-01 16:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Intervention is used as a punishment, not for de-escalation. The people in charge of making these decisions most likely have no college education, no specialized training to work with kids, and there is no oversight or regulation by anyone. SCL is a business that is supposed to regulate itself, which is somewhat difficult to believe since their number one goal is profit, not the kids. Some of the workers might say the kids are what it is about, or even believe this in their heart, but that is not how their bosses feel. If the staff get to close to kids they will be fired. If they are 'getting soft' with the kids they will be fired. Good hearted staff at SCL do not last long, think about why that is. The only people with any kind of training are the therapists who only come in once in a while and talk to the kids briefly and then charge the parents more money. SCL is nothing but a holding facility for teenagers deemed unmanageable by their parents. The staff are nothing more than guards. Then they create an image of some kind of rural treatment facility that is completely false. SCL is a prison, and a prison with bright painted walls, is still a prison. There are no need for a prison fence, their location acts as a natural defense against running. You either stay or die trying, it's still a prison. Some of the guards in a prison are nice people too, but it doesn't change the situation for those incarcerated, especially if they didn't do anything wrong and had no rights. Welcome to the world of WWASPS. Private kiddy prisons are a profitable business, watch them grow in all their horror."
"The people in charge of making these decisions most likely have no college education, no specialized training to work with kids, and there is no oversight or regulation by anyone."
Most likely?! Well, there's some hard evidence. I guess all those degrees in child development, psychology, education, etc. "most likely" don't count? Nor does all the work by the health professionals and the state regulatory board, apparently.
"The only people with any kind of training are the therapists who only come in once in a while and talk to the kids briefly and then charge the parents more money."
Where do they come in from? I mean, since there are 12 therapists with their offices there on the campus. And since they're there 40 hours a week and all.
You most likely don't have a clue, friend. But thanks for the speech. It was pretty.
:wave:
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In a professional environment EVERY person in charge of a child would have to be degreed and certified.
I am a parent and I am not anti-program in the least, I sent my child to another program. I would not touch SCL with a ten foot pole. Why any parent would send a kid to that environment, where you are not even supposed to visit unannounced is beyond me. Too many red flags.
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hahaha 12 therapists? 40 hours a week? yeah right. mike linderman and his fucking "cabinet mountain health" crew are jokes. they should have their licenses stripped.
neither cameron nor chaffin went to college, and they are the directors. do the rest of the detective work yourself. none of the shift leaders or flex staff have education past high school. many of them are meth addicts or alcoholics. one family father was convicted of distributing meth. half the "teachers" don't even have degrees. god forbid they spend the money to hire an entire staff of qualified teachers, instead of a few to head the rest of them. what's the need when all you do is grade tests off of answer logs? if you're going to spew your unbelievable bullshit, cite some FACTS, some NAMES, specific DEGREES, anything.
oh wait, you can't because you're full of shit.
god. now i think i fully understand the meaning of the word "troll"
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Contraband communications
by John S. Adams
Children at Spring Creek Lodge Academy near Thompson Falls live highly supervised lives. They?re sent to the secluded backwoods boarding school from all over the country for ?behavior modification,? isolated from the opposite sex and warned not to exchange phone numbers or e-mail addresses. Posses-sion of a friend?s contact info is considered a major infraction; punishable by extra months tacked on to the time it takes to graduate the program.
?You come here alone, you leave here alone. That?s what they always told us,? recalls Scott Stewart, a 2001 graduate of Spring Creek. ?They think if you meet up with these people outside of the program your ?non-working? lifestyles start coming back.?
Stewart says students used coded Bible passages and tiny notes stuffed into the tubes of Bic pens to exchange contraband information at Spring Creek.
Now it?s getting much easier for those same students to get in touch on the outside, thanks to the increasing popularity of Internet blog sites and forums.
Online communities like MySpace.com and Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora (www.fornits.com/wwf (http://www.fornits.com/wwf)) now give former students of Spring Creek and other programs in the World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) a place to meet and share their thoughts and past experiences.
?I would say about 95 percent of the discussions are people talking about the trials and tribulations they had there,? says Stewart, a student at DeVry University in Dallas, Texas, and a member of the ?Spring Creekers? group at MySpace.com.
MySpace is host to groups with names like ?Spring Creek Peeps,? ?Spring Creek?s Worst Enemies,? ?Anti-WWASPS? and ?End Institution-alized Child Abuse,? to name a few. ?Spring Creekers? alone boasts 323 new members since it began in March, 2005, but that?s nothing compared to the 788 who have joined the ?End Institution-alized Child Abuse? group since it was started just five months ago.
?I have found friends I thought I would never hear from again,? says Stewart. ?It?s real inspiring. It?s great to touch base with some of your old family members, people you?ve grown close to.?
-----
Spring Creek's Short Leash
by John S. Adams, photos by Chad Harder
(http://http://www.missoulanews.com/photos/16/0524feature1.jpg)
Montana?s behavior modification programs watch their troubled teen charges like hawks. Recent lawsuits and allegations of abuse raise the question: Who?s watching them?
By the summer of 2004 Janet Larson was at her wit?s end. Her 17-year-old daughter Christina (both names have been changed) was drinking, smoking, sneaking out, doing drugs and lying. Her parents were worried sick she would drop out of school, end up in jail, or worse.
So they made a difficult decision that summer, a decision they hoped would change their daughter?s life: They decided to send Christina to a private behavior modification program in Western Montana. Like thousands of parents around the country who send their children away in hopes of saving their lives, Christina?s parents were convinced they had no other choice.
Her experience at Spring Creek Lodge in Thompson Falls did change Christina?s life, but not in the way her parents expected. Less than two months after enrolling in the program, Christina was back home in southern California, dealing with what her mother calls the ?shock treatment? she received at Spring Creek, as well as the news that a bunk-mate and friend at the school had killed herself just days after Christina?s departure.
more....
http://www.missoulanews.com/News/News.asp?no=4970 (http://www.missoulanews.com/News/News.asp?no=4970)
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Escape in Sanders County
by John S. Adams
No news is bad news for Spring Creek?s ?runners?
On the evening of Friday, Sept. 9, a 16-year-old boy was found approximately 30 feet below the lip of a cliff above the Clark Fork River west of Thompson Falls. The boy was a student at Spring Creek Lodge Academy, a specialty boarding school in Sanders County and member of the World Wide Association of Specialty Schools and Programs (WWASPS). Two sources close to Spring Creek told the Independent that Adrian Sanders was being transported from Spring Creek to an associated facility in Jamaica when he escaped his teen transport service, Second Chance Transport of Thompson Falls. He was later found by search and rescue personnel below the cliffs behind the Rimrock Lodge motel, one mile west of Thompson Falls on State Hwy 200. He was transported to Clark Fork Valley Hospital in Plains.
Details of the incident and the extent of the boy?s injuries have been hard to come by.
Queries directed to traditional sources of information including the local sheriff?s department, ambulance service and hospital, have turned up little or no information. It is still unknown if an investigation into the boy?s attempted escape and subsequent fall and injury was ever conducted.
The level of secrecy surrounding even minor details related to the incident is startling. Officials at the Clark Fork Valley Hospital refuse to confirm whether the boy was ever a patient. A Thompson Falls Volunteer Ambulance official refuses to comment on whether or not the ambulance company even responded to the incident. The local sheriff says there was no investigation into or documentation of the incident other than an EMS/Fire initial dispatch report, which includes 18 lines of frustratingly vague narrative of the response to the incident. The private company responsible for transporting Adrian Sanders refused to comment other than to say that their charge suffered a ?minor concussion? and that everything ?turned out fine.? Neither Spring Creek Lodge?s director nor the school?s principal returned phone calls regarding the incident. A spokeswoman for Spring Creek said the school is ?not authorized to give information on the student.? Information on where Adrian Sanders is from, why he was being transported, how he escaped, the extent of his injuries and the nature of the rescue have all been withheld from the Independent or were never documented.
more....
http://www.missoulanews.com/News/News.asp?no=5192 (http://www.missoulanews.com/News/News.asp?no=5192)
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Tragedy at Montana school
by Ken Kay - President WWASP
October 8, 2004
Spring Creek Lodge (SCL), the school for troubled teens close to Thompson Falls, MT, announced last night that a student had committed suicide at the school.
The identity of the girl and the exact manner of death are not being released at the request of the family.
?We are all in a state of complete shock,? said Chaffin Pullen, chief of operations at the school. ?Clearly we are deeply saddened by this event and are most of all devastated for the family.?
Pullen added that the girl, from Denver, CO, was under the supervision of a professional counselor and had also seen a psychiatrist since arriving at the school.
SCL was acutely aware of the girl?s fragility and had placed her on ?high risk? observation. She had recently been removed from ?high risk? after showing definite signs of improvement, a move that required the signatures of four SCL staff members who had direct contact with the girl, including the head of the school?s clinical mental health services.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/ken ... 41009.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/news/kenkaystmt-scl041009.html)
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U.S. Federal Probe of WWASP Requested
By Tim Rogers
U.S. Representative George Millar, Senior Democrat on the Committee on Education and the Workforce, sent a letter to U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft yesterday requesting a federal investigation into allegations of abuse by the WorldWide Association of Specialty Programs (WWASP).
One of Rep. Millar's congressional aids had told The Tico Times in September that the U.S. lawmaker was preparing to request a federal probe following the closure of Costa Rica's WWASP-affiliated Dundee Ranch Academy and allegations of abuse at other WWASP facilities in the United States, Jamaica and Mexico (TT, Sept. 12).
WWASP is the umbrella organization under which Dundee Ranch Academy, a behavior-modification program for troubled teens, operated here, before being closed last May following government interventions to investigate allegations of rights abuse (TT, May 23).
"I am requesting, in my capacity as Senior Democratic Member, that you initiate a formal investigation into allegations of child abuse, human rights violations, fraudulent and deceptive advertising, fraud and unjust enrichment under the Internal Revenue Code, and violations of other Federal civil or criminal laws by [WWASP] and its founders," reads the congressman's letter to Ashcroft.
Dundee Ranch was one of 11 WWASP programs in the United States and abroad. An estimated 2,200 children were enrolled in the residential programs, including 200 in Dundee Ranch.
"There have been serious allegations that hundreds of children have been mistreated or neglected and that their legal rights have been regularly flaunted. There are also hundreds of parents who assert that they were drawn into the program by misleading advertising. We believe that the Department of Justice should investigate whether federal laws concerning child abuse and neglect, interstate commerce or unfair or deceptive advertising have been broken by WWASPS or those operating these facilities," the letter reads.
The letter to Ashcroft mentions that "Dundee Ranch was closed after Costa Rican authorities charged the facility with violating children's civil rights," and quotes testimony of abuse by former Dundee Ranch director Amberley Knight, who first told The Tico Times last March that the academy "is poorly managed, takes financial advantage of parents in crisis, and puts teens in physical and emotional risk " (TT, March 14).
The letter concludes by asking Ashcroft to "please provide by Nov. 17, 2003, a written report on steps you have taken to initiate an investigation of all allegations."
http://www.ticotimes.net (http://www.ticotimes.net)
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Investigation shows troubled school may be buying interest with lawmakers
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
SALT LAKE CITY -- A family that runs a chain of troubled boarding schools has dumped bundles of money into Utah political campaigns over the past two years -- and may have been peddling influence with lawmakers to avoid regulation, a newspaper reports.
The Salt Lake Tribune reports in Sunday editions that lawmakers quietly killed a bill this year that would have allowed the state to regulate boarding schools. Since then, checks have flown into political coffers, and complaints surrounding the schools have swirled.
At the center of the storm are House Speaker Marty Stephens, who received a $30,000 check six days after the bill died from its biggest opponent, and the Majestic Ranch boarding school near Randolph, which has been has been investigated three separate times for alleged abuse, according to state Human Service officials.
That school is owned by Dan Peart, brother-in-law of World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools founder Robert Lichfield, who awarded Stephens the $30,000 check.
The ranch is among seven troubled-teen schools affiliated with World Wide in four states and two foreign countries. Several others have been shut down amid allegations of abuse or poor living conditions, including the Casa by the Sea facility near Ensenada, Mexico, closed last weekend by government officials.
more...
http://old.heraldextra.com/modules.php? ... &sid=34937 (http://old.heraldextra.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=34937)
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Utah-based group under fire
Legislation targets association of schools for troubled youths
A Utah-based organization affiliated with schools for troubled youths is stirring controversy in at least three states and is the target of congressional legislation unveiled Wednesday.
At issue are the persistent allegations of child abuse and claims of questionable business practices surrounding the World Wide Association of Speciality Schools (WWASPS) founded by Robert Lichfield of La Verkin, Washington County.
Lichfield is one of three directors on the board of WWASPS, which officially claims affiliation with seven schools, including facilities in New York, South Carolina, Montana, Utah and Jamaica.
The organization uses behavior modification tactics to curb rebellious behavior in kids and often establishes schools in rural, out-of-the-way areas to deter notions of running away. Monthly tuition is several thousand dollars, on top of admission fees.
The allegations of abuse and questions about the facilities' credentials ? all of which WWASPS' president Ken Kay denies or says are overblown ? have sparked investigations in numerous states, prompted closures of some facilities and led Rep. George Miller, D-Calif., Wednesday to call for federal legislation invoking more oversight.
more...
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600128053,00.html (http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600128053,00.html)
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Tough-Love Schools Are Both Loved, Hated
LAVERKIN, Utah. ? Some schools sprouting up around the United States that are designed to practice tough-love with troubled teens are causing some communities to think twice about bringing one to their town.
The tough-love facilites, which aim to straighten out kids by teaching them how to be more responsible and make better decisions, can be a big help to parents.
The schools try to "decrease the desirability of unhealthy choices" and "increase the desirability of healthy choices," said Norm Thibault, a therapist at Cross Creek Academy (search), a tough-love facility in Utah.
"Here's a program where there's no swearing, no smoking, no alcohol, no drugs, no boy-and-girl interaction, go to school every day," said Cross Creek owner Karr Farnsworth.
At about $50,000, they're not cheap ? although Ken Kay, director of Utah-based Worldwide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (search), or WWASPS, which maintains six tough-love facilities including Cross Creek, says the cost is well worth it.
It's "barely the cost of a G35 Infinity ? the cost of a new car," Kay says.
But the controversial buzz among parents isn't over the price tag. The schools are strict, and students are not allowed outside the facility. They actually have to earn the privilege to see their parents.
When Julia Burton's daughter was spiraling out of control with alcohol, drugs and promiscuity, she felt the only way to rescue her daughter was to commit her to Cross Creek Academy (search), a WWASPS residential treatment center in Utah.
"I felt my only recourse was to give up my parental rights," Burton told FOX News.
Although Burton, who had to wait five months to see her daughter, said the center has helped her daughter, not every parent is happy.
Terry Cameron said her son, Layne, was abused at Tranquility Bay, a WWASPS center in Jamaica.
Layne says he was duct-taped and forced to sleep with his hands behind his back and says he was abused for minor infractions; pepper spray was often used on him.
?They had both of my ankles and ... they dragged me across the floor and it split my chin and knocked my tooth," Layne said.
The Camerons are among dozens of families planning a direct action lawsuit against WWASPS that includes allegations of fraud, assault and battery and false imprisonment. Kay said to be wary of abuse allegations, since they often come from troubled teens with a history of lying.
Although Layne's experience with the facility was a nightmare, his mother believes the WWASPS programs may be a way for some teens to turn their lives around but she wants parents to think carefully before placing their children in a residential treatment center.
"I totally blame myself," Cameron said.
Experts agree that parents should weigh all their options for helping their troubled teens and not rush into a program in desperation.
Many tough-love facilities appear to be the solution to all the problems the teens are facing. In fact, the schools sound so appealing, parents rarely realize that some programs may be trying to "take advantage of them when they're at their weakest moment," said Dr. Robert Johnson, a psychiatry and pediatrics professor at New Jersey Medical School.
The mixed reviews of the tough-love programs have the attention of New York Attorney General Elliot Spitzer (search), who is investigating whether a WWASPS school in his state obtained the necessary academic accreditation legally.
"I think it's more about being sure that the academic program is accredited properly and operating properly, and we are a hundred percent in favor of that," said WWASPS president Kay.
But Spitzer is not the only person looking into WWASPS. Rep. George Miller (search), D-Calif., introduced federal legislation regarding oversight of residential treatment programs and wants the U.S. Justice Department to make unscheduled visits to WWASPS facilities.
Despite the prospect of economic benefits, the town of Boonville, Mo., took note of the questions surrounding WWASPS schools and rejected a proposal by the organization's founder to open a school there.
Families, politicians, doctors and government agencies are divided on whether WWASPS programs are successful and safe. But Johnson said the schools aren't even necessary.
"The best place for your children to get better is at home, and that's always the case," he said.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159276,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159276,00.html)
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more articles:
http://www.swatthewwasp.com/modules.php ... link&cid=1 (http://www.swatthewwasp.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links&l_op=viewlink&cid=1)
http://www.swatthewwasp.com/modules.php ... link&cid=3 (http://www.swatthewwasp.com/modules.php?name=Web_Links&l_op=viewlink&cid=3)
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On 2006-05-02 07:57:00, emaree wrote:
"hahaha 12 therapists? 40 hours a week? yeah right. mike linderman and his fucking "cabinet mountain health" crew are jokes. they should have their licenses stripped.
neither cameron nor chaffin went to college, and they are the directors. do the rest of the detective work yourself. none of the shift leaders or flex staff have education past high school. many of them are meth addicts or alcoholics. one family father was convicted of distributing meth. half the "teachers" don't even have degrees. god forbid they spend the money to hire an entire staff of qualified teachers, instead of a few to head the rest of them. what's the need when all you do is grade tests off of answer logs? if you're going to spew your unbelievable bullshit, cite some FACTS, some NAMES, specific DEGREES, anything.
oh wait, you can't because you're full of shit.
god. now i think i fully understand the meaning of the word "troll"
"
The state of Montana has licensing and certification information on all the therapists. It's available online.
re: teachers:
Try the Montana OPI website. It has all the information on all the certified teachers at SCL--24 of them at last count. At least six have MA's. The Montana board has all the ed information on all the staff. You don't, apparently.
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On 2006-05-02 10:17:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"The same state who has the heads of various private programs chairing a committee to clean up program abused under the auspices of the department of labour.
Not very convincing. We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.
-- Ben Franklin At the signing of the Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776.
"
Are you sure? Consider this: those people from private programs (and there's only one chair, two other program members, and two members of the public) are competitors. They might have real motivation for finding problems with each others' programs. This establishes checks and balances.
Consider this, too-- The state of Montana has been using citizen-involved boards for regulation since its birth as a state. The record is pretty solid and it works very well, at far less cost than more bureaucratic, less democratic structures. This is the same outfit that regulates most health care workers, social workers, psychologists, chem. dep. workers. etc.
In contrast, professions regulated by unwieldy, heavy-handed bureacracies have a far worse record of abuse, injuries, and deaths. Don't forget that all those boot camps in Florida are heavily regulated, and state licensed and managed.
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On 2006-05-01 14:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-05-01 12:30:00, MightyAardvark wrote:
"
Thanks for sharing your experience of CCM; I can't deny or agree with anything you say because I've never seen CCM. We were discussing SCL, which does not censor mail,
Yes it does, or at least to my certain knowledge did so as recently as four months ago.
has no concrete rooms, and has no locked intervention room. "
The rooms are wood and plaster but the child is still powerless to leave.
"
MA, your "certain knowledge" is incorrect. Mail is not censored. In fact, parents may opt to send mail to and from friends. The only way SCL even knows if that happens is if the child shows staff, or the parents mention it. I know this, because I had occasion to discipline staff who read kids' mail. It's not allowed.
The child is not powerless to leave Intervention, and even "Irish Mom" admits that. They just have to be de-escalated, and agree to stay that way. They're assisted with all kinds of support: They can talk to any staff they ask for, including therapists. They can talk to upper level students and mentors. They can sit or lie down, or they can sleep. It isn't that big a deal.
You've discussed the possibility of a well-run program. In a "well-run" program, what would you consider good options for a student who is escalated to the point of possible harm to herself or someone else?
Intervention as it works at SCL and most programs I've had experience with is simply a time-out, used as a means of de-escalating kids who are still learning how to manage their anger and frustration in a healthy way. It's not punishment.
This is a common model in all kinds of public and private settings, and very few health professionals have a problem with it at all.
I think your concern is sincere but misplaced; you couldn't possibly care more about these kids than the people working with them.
"
It is an accepted, although distasteful fact that restraint and removal to a timeout room is the appropriate response for a patient who is escalated to the point of being a danger to themselves or others. I don't have a problem with the therapeutically appropriate use of restraint and timeout.
The children at Spring Creek Lodge are not patients. They are mostly, normal healthy children who have been incarcerated against their will without a conviction or a diagnosis to justify it. This in my view, makes any discussion of therapeutic justification utterly irellevant. These children are not patients, they are prisoners.
As far as anonymous program apologists go you are a very polite and constructive one and for that I thank you. I'd like to think at some point it might be possible to get some sort of dialogue going across the ideological divide. Sadly I instinctively distrust people who lack the courage of their convictions and find it necessary to hide behind anonymity.
However, you doutless have my email address and my AIM address so I'll invite you to message me and maybe you can place some context around some of the documents and evidence I have.
Thankyou too for at least acknowledging the basic nobility of my concern, if not the validity but please. I think that: given that you know nothing of my motivations, experience, credentials, abilities or the sources of information available to me please don't comment on these.
I
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"They might have real motivation for finding problems with each others' programs. This establishes checks and balances."
This is rubbish in its entirety. They all collude for profit. Get real.
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i never said the therapists didn't have degrees. i said they should be stripped.
learn to read, trollie.
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and the teachers that do have degrees are not there at all times, that was my main point. students DO NOT have access to a degree-holding teacher at every class period. about 1/3 of the time, there are either no teachers in the classrooms (first morning period and last night period), or there are test graders that are simply "aides" with no education. they can do nothing for the students except to try look at answer logs for the tests and help them that way. that is ridiculous, especially when the academics are supposedly so great at SCL. what a joke.
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Why is the room only four feet wide if you are not using it for punishment? Why do you let kids, who by your definition are troubled, give consequences to other kids that result in longer incarceration. Why do you transfer kids to Tranquility Bay. SCL obviously approves of daily pepper spraying, shoulder dislocation, placing children beyond the protection of US laws, Scrubbing geneitals with steel brushes, OR IT WOULDN'T BE SENDING CHILDREN THERE. If you have a different take on this, I would like to hear about it. [ This Message was edited by: Badpuppy on 2006-05-02 20:10 ]
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I wonder if there is a way that we could arrange a fund for interest free loans for children who have taken their exit plans, and how could wel tell them about it. Having the funds there is no use if the children it's intended for don't know about it.
I wonder how much we'd need.
Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and to the Republic
for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster, and what has
happened once in 6000 years, may not happen again. Hold on to
the Constitution, for if the American Constitution should fail,
there will be anarchy throughout the world.
Daniel Webster
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What it would take would be multiple billboards that said, "Kid leaving SCL? Need help and money? Call 800-(something memorable). We are a non-profit run by survivors, for survivors."
Then you'd change the program name to match whatever other programs you put up billboards at.
Runners would call you, and programmies pretending to be runners would try to get you shut down. You'd need volunteer lawyers set up in advance to make sure any runner was covered by attorney client privilege before he spilled the beans on where to pick him up. And to be sure that nobody who was *not* covered by attorney client privilege ever knew anything they'd legally have to report to the authorities.
I know you're not proposing to set up to help the runners, but I think your natural sympathy for them is how the programmies would try to get at you.
Anything else I can think of that the programmies could try to do to you would be easier to defend against.
Obviously, you'd need a long term lease on your billboards, or to buy the land under them before putting them up. And you'd need to obey all local sign ordinances, etc.
You could also pay for sky writers or planes carrying banners to plaster it over their heads. :wink: They may own the ground, they may own the local government to rig the sign ordinances, but they can't take the sky from you. :wink:
Julie
Julie
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I think the second idea is much better.
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On 2006-05-02 17:11:00, emaree wrote:
"and the teachers that do have degrees are not there at all times, that was my main point. students DO NOT have access to a degree-holding teacher at every class period. about 1/3 of the time, there are either no teachers in the classrooms (first morning period and last night period), or there are test graders that are simply "aides" with no education. they can do nothing for the students except to try look at answer logs for the tests and help them that way. that is ridiculous, especially when the academics are supposedly so great at SCL. what a joke."
Emaree is so correct on this. I dealt with the Teacher's Aide more than I ever did the teacher the whole time I worked there. The Teacher had very little to do with the students anyway. Most of the time she was just sitting there correcting papers or writing stuff down. I hardly ever saw her working with a student. I'm not saying they don't have degrees and that some of them aren't really good teachers, but there is definitely something lacking out there in the "academics". I do know that a couple of the male teachers were really on the ball and really worked with the students. This information came from the Family Fathers that worked the families in those classrooms. I can really only speak for the classroom I was in and the person in there was a pathetic excuse for a teacher.
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I was in the program over 11 years ago. Paradise Cove. I am thankful I was and I am now a Lawyer who highly recommends the programs. You see, I have stayed in touch with many past students and parents. I have no reason to stay involved or to support the programs. I am not their legal counsel. Nor do I get any sort of renumeration. I was never mistreated, never deprived of food, never emotionally or phsysically abused. I have been to many of the facilities over the years and still endorse them highly.
I know that now I will get attacked by all of you that choose to use every 4 letter word you ever learned and that's OK. I am thriving, doing extremely well and lviing the good life. If I am brainwashed, then I hope I stay brainwashed. If not, then I just learned alot and used it to further myself in my life's endeavors.
Good luck to all.
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I was never mistreated, never deprived of food, never emotionally or phsysically abused.
Well, a lot of people were, and you are now giving advice to send kids away where this might happen to them. Either you choose not to believe the numerous stories of abuse, or you don't care. Either way, you are irresponsible with your advice, and it hurts real people.
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On 2006-05-25 18:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I was in the program over 11 years ago. Paradise Cove. I am thankful I was and I am now a Lawyer who highly recommends the programs. You see, I have stayed in touch with many past students and parents. I have no reason to stay involved or to support the programs. I am not their legal counsel. Nor do I get any sort of renumeration. I was never mistreated, never deprived of food, never emotionally or phsysically abused. I have been to many of the facilities over the years and still endorse them highly.
I know that now I will get attacked by all of you that choose to use every 4 letter word you ever learned and that's OK. I am thriving, doing extremely well and lviing the good life. If I am brainwashed, then I hope I stay brainwashed. If not, then I just learned alot and used it to further myself in my life's endeavors.
Good luck to all."
Well we're all glad it workedout for you. This site is about speaking up for the hundreds of kids that didn't benefit from this treatment, those that were deprived of food and we mistreated.We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it - and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again---and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one anymore.
Mark Twain
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You are a WWASP marketer. Your job is to scam people out of their money and the love of their child. That is reason you went to so many of their programs. With your propaganda are mocking the victims of torture for your own sadistic pleasure. Paradise Cove was closed for child abuse. This abuse is documented in trial testimony and sworn affidavids. The fact that you claim you were in a system where kids were transferred like chattle, and kids give consequences to other kids that result in a lengthened incarceration proves you are lying about the abuse. You are contemptable.
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On 2006-05-25 18:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I was never ..... phsysically abused.
.....If not, then I just learned alot and used it to further myself in my life's endeavors."
Yeah...sure you're a lawyer. Just like the WWASP marketer claiming to be a former student on their way to an Ivy League school, yet lacking the most basic spelling and grammar skills. What's really funny is that after the last attempt a WWASPie made at sounding intelligent failed so horribly, I would have thought that several of them would have collaborated and proofread their potential post in advance.
Follow this link. "Renumeration" is not a word in the English language. No wonder you say you don't get any renumeration. I don't get any flibbeyjabbey, either, 'cause there ain't no such thing. Nice attempt at multi-syllable words, but stick to what you're good at. "We take cash. Pay now. We get your kid. You get good pizza....."
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/renumeration (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/renumeration)
I was there 11 years ago. And I know for a fact that there is not a single Paradise Cove graduate on the list for referrals other than one who works for the program. Why go nameless, proudgrad?
Nice try.
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Hey, he spells lawyer with a capital L and says renumeration instead of remuneration, THE most important word in a lawyer's vocabulary since it has to do with getting money. :razz:
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mmm, Deriding him as a troll is all very satisfying but at the end of the day there is a traumatised and emotioanlly scarred person behind those words.
Really this guy is just another victim of wwasps and if you think about it people like him are the reason we do this.
The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Follow this link. "Renumeration" is not a word in the English language. No wonder you say you don't get any renumeration. I don't get any flibbeyjabbey, either, 'cause there ain't no such thing.
Priceless. I love it.