Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Seed Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 31, 2003, 12:58:00 AM

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on March 31, 2003, 12:58:00 AM

I was 'involved' from '82-'85, I am looking for others who left mysteriously during that time-Nona, my oldcomer, K.P., Roger, 'Johnny', Julio, Marisol-Mary, Nancy, etc...I left-ranaway after three years-I left all of my belongings, what little money I hadn't given to the seed, drove my car to the ghetto sold it and took a cab to the airport- I called Libby once I reached another state- they tried to get me to come back. They- Ginger, libby & cookie called me a couple of years ago to come to a re-union. I would love to talk to other from that bizarre time.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on April 01, 2003, 05:34:00 PM

i have tried to put my experiences at sr84 in perspective and 20 yrs later it is very difficult to focus on the 'process' the seed was very small by the time my mom signed me in. my parents lived far away & were restricted from visiting. they were 'allowed one visit- they flew to Florida- spent one afternoon with me. Libby told my parents that they could not see me again the next day -i hadn't 'progressed far enough in my treatment' I had been in the program for SIX MONTHS. My mother told me just this year that she considered jumping from the Balcony at the Bahia mar that night. She new the seed was a cult-but could not do anything- my father told her I had to stay- i had pulled alot of shit at home & had been through two schools, i did have MAJOR PROBELMS. but I lost three years of my life at the seed. "I love you" as  a code word- thousands of bologna sand. metal chairs for hours... more later

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: GregFL on April 01, 2003, 11:05:00 PM

Thank you for writing, and welcome to our forum.  Even though you were in the seed some 20 years after me, you still were subjected to the same staff members....Libby, cookie, etc.   Pretty weird, Eh?

ANyway, welcome. I look forward to reading your posts.

What is a committee?  A group of the unwilling, picked from the unfit, to do the unnecessary.    
-- Richard Harkness, The New York Times, 1960

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Antigen on April 02, 2003, 03:24:00 PM

On 2003-04-01 14:34:00, Anonymous wrote: "i have tried to put my experiences at sr84 in perspective and 20 yrs later it is very difficult to focus on the 'process' the seed was very small by the time my mom signed me in. my parents lived far away & were restricted from visiting. they were 'allowed one visit- they flew to Florida- spent one afternoon with me. Libby told my parents that they could not see me again the next day -i hadn't 'progressed far enough in my treatment' I had been in the program for SIX MONTHS. My mother told me just this year that she considered jumping from the Balcony at the Bahia mar that night. She new the seed was a cult-but could not do anything- my father told her I had to stay- i had pulled alot of shit at home & had been through two schools, i did have MAJOR PROBELMS. but I lost three years of my life at the seed. "I love you" as  a code word- thousands of bologna sand. metal chairs for hours... more later   "

Twenty years ago???!!! Ok, thanks for blowing a hole in what I thought was (finally) an answer to some of my questions.

I went into Straight, Inc. about 21½ years ago and got out two years later. At the time, I was under the impression that Art had turned my mother down when she tried to put me in, citing the 'no kids who have been through other treatment' clause. I hadn't been through other treatment, but I'd hardly missed an open meeting since my older brothers went in sometime around 70 or 72. I had major problems too, but the only real shit I'd pulled was running away and hitchhiking cross-country to try and avoid going to The Seed.

A couple of years ago, I heard that The Seed had been under investigation, closed all but the one location (I had long since quit paying any more attention to OM rap than I did the minister's sermons at church... probably less, as I like the minister.) As part of the "we'll pretend to comply till you're not breathing down our necks" song and dance, they were supposed to have quit taking minors.

So now this has made sense until now. Now I don't know wtf happened, my sane parent passed on a few years ago and I don't speaking with any of my Seedling relatives. So I'm back to wondering. How did I land up in Straight instead of The Seed and did I get a better or worse deal than the rest of them?

The world may never know.

Anyway, glad you found us. Hope you find something you're looking for laying around here.

A vote for GW is a vote for America's Führer.
--Anonymous (it's best that way...)

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on April 02, 2003, 07:56:00 PM

When I went into the program- day after halloween '82. talk about surreal- There were only a small handful of people on the program. though about 30 or so oldcomers & graduates would attend all of the rap sessions and filter in and out during the day. I remember one girl coming on the front row after her sister-she was under 18-otherwise they were not taking any minors.

I didn't 'graduate for a year & a half-{my parent's money I Guess!!!!} I stayed in Ft.lauderdale in one of the girls-group house for another year & a half. It took me being told off visciously in a girls rap to make me bolt- and run away- i was 21.

I have had many nightmares that i am back at the seed and that my family & friends don't know where I am. Did any of these things puzzle or freak-out anyone else?

No seedlings that married had children.
The few that did date-were set up & had to be approved by Staff.
At One wedding no family attended.
Several long time graduates disappeared from Florida & were never mentioned again.
Nona from north carolina where are you? Roger from Ohio where are you?
Nancy from Pittsburgh? KP from Ohio?

We went through so much and lost so much of ourselves. Did the seed save me? I saved myself from the seed- I could still be in florida, in seed reality, never dealing with reality- forget about moral inventory-what about moral reality?

To the people who were kind to me & I thank them. I wish you could realize that you are beyond brainwashed-you are numb-i love You is a code. for FOLLOWer. I am freaked to remember drinking Kool-aid daily- how easily we followed. { remember Jonestown}

However- I could not imagine spending the rest of my life without having an original thought, idea or sponateous moment. life is messy-i am happily not a mess.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: GregFL on April 02, 2003, 08:57:00 PM

Yes, three years lost. Many more years spent burying the pain and denying the reality. This is the legacy of being in a cult. Ask any seedling that will talk about it....many won't.

Many won't acknowledge that the Seed was even a cult. A cult is always the other group.

Glad you are here. You really didn't lose those three years as long as you are willing to confront what happened now. You only lose them when you refuse to remember....

The disrespect for the possession laws fosters a disrespect for laws and the system in general... On top of this is the distinct impression among the youth that some police may use the marihuana laws to arrest people they don't like for other reasons, whether it be their politics, their hair style or their ethnic background.
                                                                     
Marihuana: A Signal of Misunderstanding

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Antigen on April 05, 2003, 06:38:00 PM

On 2003-04-02 16:56:00, Anonymous wrote: Did any of these things puzzle or freak-out anyone else? No seedlings that married had children. The few that did date-were set up & had to be approved by Staff. At One wedding no family attended. Several long time graduates disappeared from Florida & were never mentioned again.

Hmm... no. At the time, I understood all of that and accepted it as normal. Except maybe the Seedlings not having kids. My brother married a staffer. They quit hanging around with Seedlings fairly quickly and they had a son. He's around 26 now. My whole childhood I was never allowed to really associate with non Seedlings, so I'd just assume that the people who left were not spoken of because the Program dogma requires that members forget that they ever existed.

The function of the press is very high. It is almost holy. It ought to
serve as a forum for the people, through which the people may know freely what is going on. To misstate or suppress the news is a breach of trust.
--Mr. Justice Brandeis

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on May 13, 2003, 11:25:00 AM

Why did Seedlings who married not have children?
Is this true of all Seedlings who married, or of just a few? Was it a rule, or a philosophy?  And why?  Would someone please explain this.  This is the first time I have heard of this.  Thanks.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2003, 08:56:00 AM

Not true!  My husband and I were both in the Seed in St. Pete in l974/75.  He finished up in Ft. Lauderdale after the Seed closed in St. Pete.  We have 2 wonderful sons, l8 and 20.  We've been married now 25 years.  Years ago I knew several Seed couples that married that went on to have kids.  Whether or not those couples are still together now, who knows, it's been years since I've seen any of them.  We've been gone from Florida for almost l8 years because of my husband's job.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: GregFL on June 09, 2003, 09:08:00 AM

You are right...my stepsister Shirley Simpson married another seedling and had a son, and I know of others.

However, the Inner circle members may have a different experience.  They had to get approval from Art to Date certain people.

BTW, if you were in in 74, perhaps you remember me?

We ought to be grateful that our government monopoly schools are such a failure. If today's 18 year olds could do arithmetic, they'd be out buying enough rope to hang everybody over 40.
--Alan Handleman on Social Security

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on June 20, 2003, 01:57:00 AM

i wish to remain anonymous, but i know all the names you spoke of. I was at ST Road 84 at the time and was invloved in the Seed for about 25 years. Post me back if you wish to know any info

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: GregFL on June 20, 2003, 12:46:00 PM

I would appreciate talking to you. Why don't you email me at [email protected].

Thank you.

Thought that is silenced is always rebellious. Majorities, of course, are often mistaken. This is why the silencing of minorities is necessarily dangerous. Criticism and dissent are the indispensable antidote to major delusions.
--  ALAN BARTH, The Loyalty of Free Men, 1951.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Antigen on June 20, 2003, 08:28:00 PM

Quote

On 2003-06-19 22:57:00, Anonymous wrote:

"i wish to remain anonymous, but i know all the names you spoke of. I was at ST Road 84 at the time and was invloved in the Seed for about 25 years. Post me back if you wish to know any info "

I bet we know some of the same people. Remember those big assed 15 lb frogs out in the back field? Please feel free to email me [email protected] I will respect your privacy. I have a couple of questions that I'd rather ask privately too.

Time is running out. The Indians' botanical knowledge is disappearing even faster than the plants themselves.

--Richard Schultes, Harvard University educator, authority on medicinal plants

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on July 01, 2003, 09:16:00 PM

How would you like me to respond to you -If you were there when I was. I would really like to correspond. please reply

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on September 06, 2003, 08:28:00 PM

If you wish to email me you can @ [email protected].  We can discuss some of the things from the past and present.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: jgar on January 13, 2004, 10:05:00 PM

I was there  from 83to 89

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: GregFL on January 14, 2004, 12:02:00 AM

83 to 89. Holy smokes, that is a long time to be at the seed. Tell us more. Why so long? Are you still in touch, On what terms did you leave?


Thanks...

May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.
-- George Carlin

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on January 15, 2004, 10:11:00 PM

The seed kids that married and did not have children were the ones that were still living at the seed in the late 80's.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on January 15, 2004, 10:18:00 PM

I was there during those years and I think I know who you are. I'll be more than happy to talk to you if you want. Post me and i'll get back to you

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2004, 12:44:00 PM

What You Talking About Willis

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2004, 01:58:00 PM

I'm looking for a friend of mine who was at the seed around the 80's his name was Corky anyone know what happened to him? He was a good friend

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2004, 10:00:00 PM

I was there between 82 and 85.  The experience was unique.  It helped me.  But my success does not take away from the fact that the seed was a cult and that its main technique was brainwashing.  No matter how you dress it up - it is still brainwashing.  

The staff would always say that when you graduate that you can go anywhere and do anything.  The problem was that when you graduated the staff would pressure you to stay.  The pressure was great. Many people unfortanetly stayed much longer than they should have. The staff were hypocrits and should not have pressured people that obviously looked to them for guidance.  

I always found it strange that you had to get permission in order to date.  And even to marry.  The most strange is the mysterious coincidence that all seed marriages taking place after 86' (which were quite a few) produced no children.  
This is just wrong. To manipulate people to force them not to have children should be a crime.  

I would like to hear from others who were at the seed around 83, 84, and 85.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on January 16, 2004, 10:19:00 PM

What ever happed to Mary V.?

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on January 19, 2004, 07:45:00 PM

I always found it strange that at the end of a beach day, that we all had to sit on the sand, while Art sat on a beach chair.  The push to place Art above and before everything else was always apparent and too weird.  It still bothers me that the staff and rap leaders would go out of their way to quote Art as if they were quoting Jesus of Nazareth.  The program could have been just as effective without trying to make Art an idol which requires constant worship - like they do in the closed off society of North Korea.  

I am sure that at the beginning there could have been a genuine desire to help children who turned to drugs.  But I would have to agree with others that after 1982, if not sooner, the program was nothing more than a power trip for Art and his inner circle.  More later . . . . .

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on February 26, 2004, 06:51:00 PM

okay , I know that some of us posting here were at the seed during the same time, I was there from '82-'85. I was the original poster. I am very interested in finding out how others have faired, and to put the past where it belongs , behind us.As a tool to learn from. I don't want to break anyone's anonymity, I will use initials. M.V., N.Z., K.P.,N.?., I am wondering where you are.
IM-AB from '82

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on February 27, 2004, 09:02:00 AM

MaVa is doing fine last I heard still beautiful as ever- NoZa was married to a Veterinarian & has a daughter- KaPu moved back to Ohio I havn't heard- N? don't know who that is and I cant figure out who you are( lM-AB ?????

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: GregFL on February 27, 2004, 09:48:00 AM

and I can't figure out who either of you are. You can still retain your anon status and choose a user name. It would be easier to sort out who is posting what, so please, when you get a chance, choose a user name and.....

Tell us a seed story!

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on February 28, 2004, 08:11:00 PM

I aM A.B. , or I was then , I am now married for 16+yrs., with two fantastic children,sorry to be somewhat cryptic.
   N.Z. was my oldcomer, she was amazing to me. I was devasted when she left. I was an oldcomer when M.V. came to the front row... I bought Bob K.'s car from him and we named it 'Tyrone' the car was truly 'classic' a huge boat that was cobalt blue with with a white top, birds used to hang-out in the trunk when we went grocery shopping.  K.P. was my oldcomer as well, glad to hear she is well.

    for years I would have nightmares of being back in Florida, trapped, with no contact with my family. The 'program' did not know how to let go of any of us. I felt so lost when I ran-away, I had been conditioned to beleive that everyone/anyone outside the seed was an asshole, especailly my family.It took me along time to find my own center and voice, I had been striped bare by all of the brain-warping raps, peer pressure, and I love you athons.
    Stories, I have tons, Singing at Christmas, Tea for two-2,000 times!!!!, Going to see the shrink in Miami and stopping at a cuban bakery on the way back and buying sweets for the group not realizing that there was rum ion the pastries til everyone had eaten them!!!!!Cleaning,cleaning the smell of Murphy's oil soap. Playing Football at Dania Beach for hours, eating french fries from the beach restaurant. The crazy neighbors we had, he was so hoping we were all lesbians, he would spy on our pool.
    Cindy & Johns Wedding. Being hypnotsed as a group, I could go on...Which house did you live in ? I lived with Ginger/n.v., k.p., diane.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on February 29, 2004, 02:16:00 PM

Quote

On 2004-02-28 17:11:00, Anonymous wrote:

Which house did you live in...

I did a search a few years ago on Broward County properties owned by Art, Shelly, Libby and/or The Seed and found a few. I assumed they were using them to house group members. Was I right? And are you saying that they ditched the "foster home" system where newcomers and out of towners spent their nights in the homes of local oldcomer parents?

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Antigen on February 29, 2004, 02:17:00 PM

Woops! That was me. Sorry.

Peace and abstinence from European interferences are our objects, and so will continue while the present order of things in America remain uninterrupted.
--Thomas Jefferson

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on February 29, 2004, 07:03:00 PM

oldcomer parents!!!!Not a chance, from '82 on we lived in group houses, rented or purchased by graduates of the seed, I never encountered any one not directly related to the program. I looked at real estate with one staff member, the thought being to use the house as a group residence. one of the guys bought a really huge funky old house the we all spent days cleaning and painting.
after you graduated the rent /utilities and groceries were split by the house mates. we slept 2-3 per bedroom and had a fairly strict regimne of cleaning/chores etc...
Parents did not come to weddings, we had no open meetings, rarely a graduate would visit.
After I graduated I had to get permission to fly home for 24 hours for christmas- IT WAS CROSS COUNTRY!!!!!
   The seed was everything, most of us worked at safeguard systems, telemarketing 'til we were all laid-off, then I went on unemployment, you should have seen the job interviews I was sent on, selling water filtration systems, breast enlargement cream, yikes....I finally landed a job working at a gourmet shop, It was the first time I worked away from the seedling group. I was so paranoid that I would be to nice to one of the 'asshole's' on the outside. I also sold crystal and giftware at the mall.

   It is amazing how much I have chosen to forget, or block out.
   Does anyone know who is still involved? I can guess...

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: GregFL on February 29, 2004, 10:13:00 PM

Well, apparently Perloff and a small group of infulential former seedlings are busy working on a project in Davie, to rezone land for a drug rehab run by a religious group. Apparently the mayor of Davie has ties to barker as does other backers of the project,and the residents are fighting it. Some believe they are trying to ressurect the seed.

The Seed may be dead, but a core group of them are involved in many projects together down there.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2004, 10:15:00 AM

I just figured out who you are-A.Be "international law"  and there really is such a thing. :wave:

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: GregFL on March 01, 2004, 10:26:00 AM

Okay, which one of you anons know what happened to Maggie Canfield. She was from the St Pete seed and moved to broward in the late 70s to be with the Seed.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2004, 10:38:00 AM

The pretty platinum blond - I don't know wher she is?

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2004, 12:05:00 PM

YES! Maggie was a great friend of mine while I was on the program. Tell me, how long was she involved in the Seed? When was the last time you saw her? Any info please......

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2004, 02:47:00 PM

who are you? you seem to be in touch/up to date with alot of the girls...are you still in ft.lauderale???
 :wave:

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on March 02, 2004, 07:58:00 AM

I'm a guy - with a good memory -Do you remember putting on shower caps with receding hairlines-in the car driving home from the beach in honor of my birthday? If you do remember - thats who I am - and yes I am in Lauderdale. :rofl:  :wave:

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: GregFL on March 02, 2004, 09:05:00 AM

Well, welcome here, receding hairline guy. I used to live in Ft Lauderdale myself. About What year did you show up in Lauderdale?

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on March 02, 2004, 09:12:00 AM

Greg - do you give your last name? or What is the first letter of your last name? I Probably know or remember you?

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: GregFL on March 02, 2004, 01:39:00 PM

It is common knowledge but I don't post it on public websites. Tell you what, I was in the seed in St Petersburg 73/74 but moved to Lauderdale after the seed.77 or 78 was the year of the  "showdown at poolside" with me and Barker. Ever hear the story other than my rendition? Know anyone that was there? It was Barker and Girls staff at the pool in the apartment comlex directly south of the lauderhill mall on 441. I have heard from a lady who was girls staff at the time that it was deemed "unsafe" from then on out for staff to hang at the pool, and barker ceased froliking in the pool with the young girls after that. Haha.

 If you want to have a private conversation, email me at [email protected].

My name is Greg B. and my father was one of the founders of straight, Inc.  If that helps.

Also, if you were around back then, what do you remember about Art running for congress. Post a thread here. I remember watching on tv he lost, and seeing the seedlings at intersections with signs, but it really creeped me out at the time.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Antigen on March 02, 2004, 01:41:00 PM

Quote

On 2004-02-29 16:03:00, Anonymous wrote:

oldcomer parents!!!!Not a chance, from '82 on we lived in group houses, rented or purchased by graduates of the seed, I never encountered any one not directly related to the program.

That sort of explains a lot then! I went into Straight in Oct of `80. The story was that Art wouldn't accept me because I already knew the program and could con my way through. When I heard that I hadn't heard of Straight at all and just didn't look a gift horse in the mouth. I thought I was off the hook.

Before that, program parents were directly involved in the program. They put locks on their doors and arranged their lives around the edicts of the 17yo staffers who carried orders down to them from on high. Maybe that's why I didn't land up there; mom could not have been involved and so it wouldn't have satisfied her fixation w/ fixing her defective kids.

The most fundamental purpose of government is defense, not empire.
--Joseph Sobran

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on March 16, 2004, 04:11:00 PM

I remeber who you are.  I remeber you driving Bob K's car to the beach.  I never knew what happended to you.  But, I guess I do now. It sounds like things have worked out for you.  I am doing quite well 20 years later. But in order to have a normal well adjusted life I have had to be friends with non-seed kids. Oh, what a shocker.  One of the things I did not like was how the staff always placed pressure on people to remain at the seed after graduation and pressured people to not be friends with non-seed kids.  Thank God I left.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on March 19, 2004, 05:21:00 PM

I remember the shower caps, ginger's idea-i think...I just can't remember whose birthday, I have a few guesses, but i don't want to name names. I need more clues, where were you from Georgia, Miami ? I have lots of questions, some answers. I am glad to hear you are doing well.
   Are you still in touch with the core group? I would like to contact some of the people we mentioned earlier, N.Z., M.V. could use some assistance. I am very private and do not wish to break anyones anonymity { not because it was a rule!!! But because people have the right to privacy.}
  We were so conditioned not to talk to any of the guys, it seems strange to be talking to you - Anyone on the outside would think that is nuts, because it is!!!!

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on March 19, 2004, 05:52:00 PM

and I wish either one of you would email me at [email protected] so we can have a private confidential chat.  There are things I would like to ask each of you.

Were either of you around when Art ran for congress ( I believe 1977 or 78). I was living in lauderdale then but out of touch with the seed.

anyway, I agree with the anon thing. I have in the past deleted names of those that attended that I thought were posted calliously.  I think some of the senior staffers names are out in the public domain anyway so there is no harm, but we all have lives and we don't always need or want people to know we were in a "drug rehab" or a cult for that matter.

Privacy is important and I will respect anyone whom wishes to remain so. in fact, I have done so repeatedly.

GregFL

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on March 22, 2004, 03:58:00 PM

I don't want to say where I am from because that information with what I have already disclosed could give me away to the former "SS"-overcontrol-staff that, I have heard, monitor this site.  But I definetely remeber you.  I had no idea that you were going through so much.  All I remember is that you were always laughing and seemed happy.  I also remember football on the beach.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Somejoker on March 28, 2004, 09:12:00 PM

Well, to those "overcontrolling" staff that may or are monitoring this site, I say to you this...

Stop being a bunch of sissies and post something. Back when we were children, you talked big and walked big and basically took exteme pleasure in fucking with our young minds with your little Jim Jonsie koolaid love cult.  We are adults now and have some very direct questions for you...

 stop hiding your heads up Art's skirt and start answering some questions. Show us the "courage of your convictions" right here, right now.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on June 18, 2004, 11:27:00 AM

what ever happened to patty h. and her mother,  mary b. who married phil, terry the old staffer cookie the sisters from pa, the staffer who became a nurse and worked at broward gen hosp,  diane from ohio, beth and john who was married and had a son from ohio.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: cleveland on September 15, 2004, 09:46:00 AM

Hi, I'm scrolling through these posts and here's one by somebody I know! I was at the Seed the same time you were, and remember the same people. I know it's been a while, but I hope that you will respond to this. I'd like to hear from someone else who spent the early 80s sitting on a hard chair on SR 84 and relating!

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on September 23, 2004, 10:36:00 AM

I have been trying to email you mr.gator but the address is not working. I am a very private and have already tipped my hand and that of others by posting. I was there at SR84. trying to figure out who you were/are by your posts. Do you remember singing Christmas Songsat the Mall and downtown. Did you work on Art's boat???? I would house sit occasionally for Art and everyone { remember that was considered a huge privledge } Lybbi's dog was sick at the time...
I have to run - I will try and email you again Mr.Gator...

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: cleveland on September 23, 2004, 12:19:00 PM

Great! Either register on this site - anonymously - or email directly from you own email account at: [email protected]

It would be great to hear from you! I have heard from one other person who was active at the same time, and it is really great to connect and share this.

I did a lot of housesitting, and I remember Lybbi's dog being sick. I lived with one of the guys who was a great woodworker, and he worked on Art's boat. I had jobs at Broward General Hospital, Westgate Printing, and other assorted gigs. Maybe that's a clue. I have no problem sharing my personal anonymity, because I have no problem with my past, hard though it may be to explain.

Anyway, my signature is what many people called me in Florida:

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: ccgar61 on September 28, 2004, 11:18:00 AM

I was at the Seed from 1983 thru 1989 If you would like to get in Contact you can E-mail me at
 [email protected]

Corky

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: GregFL on September 28, 2004, 12:06:00 PM

Welcome!

We usually ask that you spend some time reading the postings and then give us a Seed story!

83-89!  Holy shit!!!!!

When I was a reluctant seedling in 73-74, most people didn't stay over a year. I graduated in 7 months.   It seems you eighties guys joined up for a bit of a different deal altogether.

You still in touch with any of the Ft Lauderdale people?  

Welcome once again!!! We are excited to have your participation.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on October 04, 2004, 04:00:00 PM

What ever happened to some of the people from Buffalo Ny? Mary, Chris W or Rodger D. from Penn? Hope they post here as least to know how are they doing. These were some good people hope they are doing well.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on October 04, 2004, 04:04:00 PM

R.D married when I ran into him about 10 yrs ago & Chris back in Buffalo

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2004, 03:18:00 PM

::argue::  :em: yesa::

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2004, 03:19:00 PM

Hail Hail the gangs all here.
or is it Hale Hale the gangs all here?

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on October 30, 2004, 03:06:00 PM

Quote

On 2004-03-19 14:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

"   I remember the shower caps, ginger's idea-i think...I just can't remember whose birthday,


It took me a while but I believe I remember who you are----I remember the shower caps and the birthday. You were always very funny and would occasionally lead wraps..i will not say more as I have sensed that you are trying to retain your anonymity. Is there away to reach you independently??? 

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on October 31, 2004, 06:55:00 AM

Dear "International Law"
I have to go out of town tomorrow- but let me figure out how you can contact me, since both my emails have my name in it(first & last.)Give me a couple of days...

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on November 15, 2004, 08:38:00 PM

I have posted to Wally Gator he could give you my email, my permission is granted...look forward to hearing from you...showercap and all. ::birthday::

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on November 18, 2004, 05:43:00 PM

My experience at the Seed is filled with mixed feelings and to this day I feel bad when I post my criticisms. As in all human institions the Seed was filled with good and bad.

I do not question what the Seed taught I feel that the philosophy was both sound and true. The problem ran deep within the basic dynamic set up of the group. What I mean by this was not in the power structure the very defininition of this structure fell into the normal structures of a group with a purpose. It was the inter rivalries within the people that ran the group and that were considered favorites of the staff. The small petty issues of who was who, and who welded the most importance are what determined where you fitted in. All this hinged on how Art and to some extent Libby perceived who you were. This caused many people to become nothing more than a good ass kisser and as they kissed ass they did not realize how they were stunting their growth in the areas they needed to grow the most. Examples of this are: How well someone related in the group, The length of time someone was around, The career someone had or was pursuing. For most people this became the most important factor as they kept up the façade of being part of the group for the good of the group. This type of behavior is what overshadowed everything and became the primary driving force in the group. People parroted much of what they said oblivious to the fact that they should have questioned their motives and reasons why they were at the Seed. We all should have developed our independent though process more and learned to rely more on ourselves rather than the group. In this manner the group empowered but yet on the other hand debilitated making cowards of us all.


 The group thinking or collective thought process became dangerous and very debilitating.
One of the ways this group thinking manifested itself was through the over bearing control the Seed maintained over everyone. Al thought when someone first came on the program this control could be justified in the name of teaching self- discipline after a person progressed it became smothering and stifling. Why not allow people to reasimulate back into the world with encouragement rather than the threat of expulsion? The Seed ruled with a velvet glove that concealed the Iron fist.  

Another way this group thinking hurt the Seed was in the manner people were blackballed when someone did not conform to the groups norms.  People were labeled as malcontents, ungrateful assholes who threw away their opportunity to become great. If you dared question this accusation you ran the risk of being on the wrong end of the groups wrath. This behavior caused many people to swallow their feelings and not allow their true feelings to be exposed causing many people to live out a lie only making them more dependant on the Seed causing them to become extremely isolated from the world while perpetuating their weaknesses even more.

In the end ego and prestige and lack of a purpose once the Seed stopped taking new commers is what ruled and brought down the group, Resulting in a collective full fledge group rebellion due to the lack of willingness in questioning one?s self and the motives of being around for so long. In my opinion was the greatest fault the Seed had.

Yet in my humble opinion the Seed still for all of it?s imperfection still was a power for good and in fact did help many people that needed it.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on November 19, 2004, 11:56:00 AM

not for me it wasn´t. It was a force of extreme negativity in my life.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on November 19, 2004, 06:12:00 PM

Anon did read the whole post or just the last lines?

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on November 20, 2004, 05:27:00 PM

Yes, read it. Only felt compeled to respond to the glaring inacurracy at the end.

Thanks for caring.

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Antigen on November 21, 2004, 08:43:00 AM

The Program was designed to break us down and then build us up again in the image of Smeagol.

"The Libertarian Party is a coalition of those who hold dear the economic freedoms championed by conservatives, yet abandoned by Republicans, and the civil freedoms championed by liberals, yet abandoned by Democrats."


--Rick Root

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on November 21, 2004, 12:09:00 PM

What land do you live in Antigen?

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Antigen on November 21, 2004, 12:20:00 PM

If your argument has no legs, you can always fall back on insults and ad hominems, eh?

May the fleas of one thousand llamas infest your armpits
--One ticked off sysadmin

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on November 21, 2004, 10:45:00 PM

People who feel that the program was basically benign seem to think that as long as the kid came out not doing drugs then it was worth whatever "hardships" they had to endure.   Ya know, the end justifies the means kind of thing.  It's the same sort of thing I used to hear when I left aftercare and accused others of being brainwashed.  They're typical response was something to the effect of 'well, if that's what it takes to clean out my brain then so be it'.  Antigen hit it on the head.  The whole POINT of behavior modification (in this sense of the term) is to break down the old "habits" or lifestyles and then build them back up in whatever guru's image of a good kid is.  For those who haven't gotten the memo.....IT'S NEVER, EVER, EVER A GOOD THING TO BREAK A KID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  How can anyone NOT see this????  It amazes me when I see posts that acknowlege the abuse but justify it as...oh, I needed it at the time, I was in a lot of trouble.  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:   If we were all left to our own devices during our teen years most would have eventually grown out of it and become successful, some wouldn't and some would fall in between.  Parents can't yank a kid out of everything they're familiar with and then use their love as a weapon to be given and withheld per the behavior of the child and expect a good outcome.  Combine that with the "game" aspect of Synanon that Seed and it's followers engaged in.  What a depraved undertaking.  All the excuses in the world don't cut it with this one.  Kids with 200 - 300 other kids fighting over who gets to scream at him and call him a bunch of names until he realizes his mistake.  Yeah, that's healthy!! :roll: Oh....wait!!!  I forgot, it's all OK cause we told 'em we loved 'em and it was all for their own good :roll:

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Cleopatra2U on November 22, 2004, 12:53:00 PM

Well said, Anon.  :nworthy:

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Antigen on November 22, 2004, 02:31:00 PM

Quote

On 2004-11-21 19:45:00, Anonymous wrote:

'well, if that's what it takes to clean out my brain then so be it'. Antigen hit it on the head.

Thanks, but I didn't come up w/ it. I remember hearing my parents and other say it when I was a kid. And I heard it more recently, too. A couple of years ago, one of my friends was cold calling down an old host homes list letting people know about an upcoming conference. One of the parents actually screamed that to her; "Well, you kids needed a good brainwashing!"

Tehe therapeutic community method is very, very effective! Not the least bit therapeutic, mind you. But astoundingly effective to some people.

As men's prayers are a disease of the will, so are their creeds a disease of the intellect.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, poet, philosopher

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on November 24, 2004, 03:55:00 PM

Hey Ginger,

What is Smeagol?

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Antigen on November 28, 2004, 01:49:00 PM

He's a character in Lord of the Rings.

The nature of psychological compulsion is such that those who act under constraint remain under the impression that they are acting on their own initiative. The victim of mind-manipulation does not know that he is a victim. To him the walls of his prison are invisible, and he believes himself to be free. That he is not free is apparent only to other people. His servitude is strictly objective.




--Brave New World Revisited, Aldous Huxley, 1958

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: nrifkin on March 26, 2006, 12:06:00 AM

I too am looking for a seedling survivor Dawn Cookie C*** who was there during that time frame.  Understand she is now living in New England and Married to a Doctor.  I would love to reconnect and let her know she's been in mine nd others thoughts!

If anyone knows how to contact her or knows her married name please let me know.

_________________
[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2006-03-27 10:55 ]

Title: ft.laud. seed '82-'85-looking for other seedling survivors
Post by: Anonymous on July 03, 2006, 10:50:00 AM

Did Ginger work at the Seed in Ft. Luderdale with Lybbi?